WMMA2 Update Thread (Real World)

[JustinVoss]

Hey guys, just an idea, but I thought we could all use this thread for posting real world updates in order to update our ToS or MW games. That way someone could have posted that Jardine was released by UFC or perhaps someone could create a Batista template and we could help each other stay up to date.

Any ideas are welcome.

[michael1234_uk]

They could also mention that Fedor lost to Werdum last night inside two minutes,

[Couture=Legend]

They could also mention that Fedor lost to Werdum last night inside two minutes,

I suppose your now going to jump on the "Fedor was overrated" bandwagon??

Werdum is one of the best BJJ practitioners in the sport & i don't care who you are, whether it's Fedor Emelianenko or some kid from the street, if you don't respect the guard of someone like Werdum then your getting tapped out, End of story!

Fedor made a horrendous error, he clearly overlooked Werdum but he's still the best heavyweight on the planet & this result does nothing to change that other than to once again highlight that Mixed Martial Arts is the most intriguing sport in the world.

[Gomi]

I suppose your now going to jump on the "Fedor was overrated" bandwagon??

Didn't look like he said that to me.

Werdum is one of the best BJJ practitioners in the sport & i don't care who you are, whether it's Fedor Emelianenko or some kid from the street, if you don't respect the guard of someone like Werdum then your getting tapped out, End of story!

Agreed for any top tier Heavyweight in MMA apart from Nog.

Fedor made a horrendous error, he clearly overlooked Werdum but he's still the best heavyweight on the planet & this result does nothing to change that other than to once again highlight that Mixed Martial Arts is the most intriguing sport in the world.

IMO, the top 5 P4P Heavyweight in the world (in terms of results) are:

1. Fabricio Werdum (To be the man, you gotta beat the man)
2. Fedor Emelianenko
3. Cain Velasquez
4. Brock Lesnar
5. Junior Dos Santos

IMO, Carwin will knock Brock out, so he will move to 3 or 4, depending on how well he performs.

Anyway, to the OP, I'd like to see new promotions such as Art of War and Legend FC in Real World Mods.

[TheBrockLock]

1. Fabricio Werdum (To be the man, you gotta beat the man)
2. Fedor Emelianenko
3. Cain Velasquez
4. Brock Lesnar
5. Junior Dos Santos

IMO, Carwin will knock Brock out, so he will move to 3 or 4, depending on how well he performs.

Anyway, to the OP, I'd like to see new promotions such as Art of War and Legend FC in Real World Mods.

Ohh boy so many questions about this... How does Werdum jump all the way to 1 with one win? How is Cain ahead of Lesner? Where is Carwin?

Yes Werdum beat Fedor, but just becuase you beat someone in the top 10 does not mean you take over their spot, becuase there is no way you can be saying that Werdum is now better then Lesner, or Carwin or Dos Santos or Cain with one win. Then you have Cain at number 2? What? What about Lesner? Lesner stopped Mir, Cain stopped Big Nog, Mir crushed Big Nog in their fight, so Cain still goes in front of Lesner? And where in gods name is Shane Carwin, 12 first round ko's or tko's and he is behind dos Santos, and Cain and Werdum? Im sorry but I can not take you as being intelligent on mma matters after this post.

For the record, my top 10
1.Lesner
2.Carwin
3.Velasquez
4.dos Santos
5.Werdum
6.Fedor
7.Overeem
8.Mir
9.Silva
10.Big Nog

[Self]

Accurate ranking are pretty much impossible in sports. Anything can happen, so the best you can do is ball-park it. Even the best fighters can have a momentary lapse in judgement and get caught. In WMMA terms all you can do is lower Fedor's submission defense and maybe raise Werdum's submission skill.

[Couture=Legend]

Didn't look like he said that to me.

Well maybe not, sounded very sarcastic to me tho.

Agreed for any top tier Heavyweight in MMA apart from Nog.

I think if Nog didn't respect the guard of Werdum then he'd get submitted too.

IMO, the top 5 P4P Heavyweight in the world (in terms of results) are:

1. Fabricio Werdum (To be the man, you gotta beat the man)
2. Fedor Emelianenko
3. Cain Velasquez
4. Brock Lesnar
5. Junior Dos Santos

As 'Self' says, nobody will ever be able to actually get this right so it's all really opinions & what you base it on but i'd say,

1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Brock Lesnar [IF he beats Carwin i'd put him above Fedor]
3. Fabricio Werdum
4. Shane Carwin [IF he beats Brock i'd put Brock down at 4, Werdum at 2 & Carwin at 3]
5. Cain Velasquez

[Couture=Legend]

Ohh boy so many questions about this... How does Werdum jump all the way to 1 with one win? How is Cain ahead of Lesner? Where is Carwin?

Yes Werdum beat Fedor, but just becuase you beat someone in the top 10 does not mean you take over their spot, becuase there is no way you can be saying that Werdum is now better then Lesner, or Carwin or Dos Santos or Cain with one win. Then you have Cain at number 2? What? What about Lesner? Lesner stopped Mir, Cain stopped Big Nog, Mir crushed Big Nog in their fight, so Cain still goes in front of Lesner? And where in gods name is Shane Carwin, 12 first round ko's or tko's and he is behind dos Santos, and Cain and Werdum? Im sorry but I can not take you as being intelligent on mma matters after this post.

For the record, my top 10
1.Lesner
2.Carwin
3.Velasquez
4.dos Santos
5.Werdum
6.Fedor
7.Overeem
8.Mir
9.Silva
10.Big Nog

First i don't think MMA Math works in any situation at all, Every fight is different. Also mate don't listen to the UFC hype machine telling you how Shane Carwin has wrecked everyone in the 1st round by (T)KO because well he hasn't, 5 of his wins are by submission.

[LoNdOn]

No doubt about it Self, rankings are subjective and this often leads to varying opinions and theories. However, it can also be said that some opinions are at the very least misguided.

[DK2112]

I like the idea of this topic, however I think we may have to wait to see if Batista actually ever has an MMA fight before rating him ;) otherwise it's literally taking stabs in the dark.

But like I say, good idea, and would be nice if this was kept updated.

[Gomi]

Ohh boy so many questions about this... How does Werdum jump all the way to 1 with one win?

Don't know how you do your rankings. I do mine on recent wins, not who I would actually put a bet on to win a fight (sounds strange, but that's how most people do their rankings).

How is Cain ahead of Lesner?

Lesnar is 1-1 with Frank Mir, beat two cans, and has a win over a Light Heavyweight in his late fourties. Cain on the other hand, dominated a top 15 guy, then knocked out Nog who going into that fight had just dismantled Randy.

Where is Carwin?

Biggest wins over two inconsistent guys doesn't mean alot to me.


Yes Werdum beat Fedor, but just becuase you beat someone in the top 10 does not mean you take over their spot,

Refer to earlier in my post.

becuase there is no way you can be saying that Werdum is now better then Lesner,

Possibly.

or Carwin

Doubtful.

or Dos Santos or Cain with one win.

NO

When you have Cain at number 2? What? What about Lesner? Lesner stopped Mir, Cain stopped Big Nog, Mir crushed Big Nog in their fight, so Cain still goes in front of Lesner? And where in gods name is Shane Carwin, 12 first round ko's or tko's and he is behind dos Santos, and Cain and Werdum?

Mir has nowhere near the amount of credibility Nog has IMO. Plus Nog had staph going into the fight.

Im sorry but I can not take you as being intelligent on mma matters after this post.

Says the guy who user MMAth.

For the record, my top 10
1.Lesner
2.Carwin
3.Velasquez
4.dos Santos
5.Werdum
6.Fedor
7.Overeem
8.Mir
9.Silva
10.Big Nog

I'm cool with this, apart from the top two, Werdum and Fedor's places and the lack of Barnett.

Since Werdum at #1 sounds controversial... GSP/Serra, BJ/Edgar.... why not Fedor/Werdum?

Sorry for going a bit off topic here, guys. Don't want to be B& in my first few posts!

I haven't got WMMA 2 yet (seriously), but when I get it, you can guarantee I will be pumping out fighter templates that have not been covered yet (from promotions such as Shooto, DEEP, AOW, etc.).

I think it would also be a fun idea to do templates for famous sportspeople (all estimatework, of course).

Wouldn't every update have to be passed to the ToS or MW owners in order to be published?

[DK2112]

Unless you manually typed out every single stat/attribute/detail for each fighter for everyone else to manually input into their database then I am fairly sure that would be the only way. Look forward to seeing the fighters you create Gomi, I think it would be fun if we all started doing that.

[thatguyclint]

Don't know how you do your rankings. I do mine on recent wins, not who I would actually put a bet on to win a fight (sounds strange, but that's how most people do their rankings).

Oh, ok, that's cool. I'm glad to see people do that, instead of the "Fedor's the best of all time, he's #1."


I'm cool with this, apart from the top two, Werdum and Fedor's places and the lack of Barnett.

Woahwoahwoahwoahwoah. Barnett? With his crushing victories over...who, exactly? Retired Yoshida? Over the hill Rizzo? Mighty Mo? Yeah, he's 5-1 since 2008, with the five wins over either cans or has beens, and a loss to...drug testing.

I might actually agree with Fedor around 6, though. He can't be ahead of Werdum, who can't be ahead of Dos Santos. Velasquez hasn't lost a round of competition, but he's not at all better than Carwin, and Lesnar has the belt. If Carwin wins, I'd put him #1, Cain #2, Lesnar #3, JdS #4, Werdum #5.

The only thing I'm seeing that I disagree with is Bigfoot at #9, but I'm not sure who I'd put there/#10, depending on how I'd rank them against Big Nog.

[SeanMcFly]

First i don't think MMA Math works in any situation at all, Every fight is different. Also mate don't listen to the UFC hype machine telling you how Shane Carwin has wrecked everyone in the 1st round by (T)KO because well he hasn't, 5 of his wins are by submission.

But none of them have left the first round.

[TheBrockLock]

Says the guy who user MMAth.
Your telling me you never use MMath? So we just shouldnt look at common opponents anymore to determine who is the better fighter when 2 guys havent fought? MMath does not work in every situation, maybe not even in the majority of situations but that does not mean we should use it al all. According to you we should only look at their most recent fight and thats it?

Lesnar is 1-1 with Frank Mir, beat two cans, and has a win over a Light Heavyweight in his late fourties. Cain on the other hand, dominated a top 15 guy, then knocked out Nog who going into that fight had just dismantled Randy.

So what your saying is the Cain, who went to decision against Kongo, beat Rothwell in his actual UFC debut and beat Nog, who is a shell of what he used to be, is better then Lesnar, when Lesner dominated against Coture, who even at 40 is still a very solid fighter, and dominated Mir, is a better fighter then Lesnar.

Biggest wins over two inconsistent guys doesn't mean alot to me.

What about 12 straight first round wins, either by tko, ko, or submission due to strikes or a couple of gullitoines? And since when is Mir inconsistent? He lost to Lesnar followed up with a domianting fight against Nog, lost to Cariwn, followed it up with a dominating performance against Kongo, thats not onconsictent thats losing to great fighters and dominating other then that.


Mir has nowhere near the amount of credibility Nog has IMO. Plus Nog had staph going into the fight.

If that staph was that terrible that it effected his performance so much he should have pulled out.



I'm cool with this, apart from the top two, Werdum and Fedor's places and the lack of Barnett.

So your all about recent performance and Fedor just lost in 90 seconds, but he drops to just #2, makes sense... And Barnett? Really? Your serious? Josh hasent doesnt anything in about 5 years to make him even close to worthy of being in a top 10 spot. You say to be the best you have to beat the best, well when was the last time Barnett fought a top 10 guy, much less beat a top 10 guy? Dont worry Ill answer for you, it was December 31st 2006 when he lost to Nog.

[Nachtfalter]

Couldn't you people keep the useless ranking discussions to Sherdog and have this forum be about the game? Yes?

[TheBrockLock]

Couldn't you people keep the useless ranking discussions to Sherdog and have this forum be about the game? Yes?

Your right, its stupid to have this conversation in this thread, my mistake.

[D.O.]

Ohh boy so many questions about this... How does Werdum jump all the way to 1 with one win? How is Cain ahead of Lesner? Where is Carwin?

Yes Werdum beat Fedor, but just becuase you beat someone in the top 10 does not mean you take over their spot, becuase there is no way you can be saying that Werdum is now better then Lesner, or Carwin or Dos Santos or Cain with one win. Then you have Cain at number 2? What? What about Lesner? Lesner stopped Mir, Cain stopped Big Nog, Mir crushed Big Nog in their fight, so Cain still goes in front of Lesner? And where in gods name is Shane Carwin, 12 first round ko's or tko's and he is behind dos Santos, and Cain and Werdum? Im sorry but I can not take you as being intelligent on mma matters after this post.

For the record, my top 10
1.Lesner
2.Carwin
3.Velasquez
4.dos Santos
5.Werdum
6.Fedor
7.Overeem
8.Mir
9.Silva
10.Big Nog

On that bolded part... That kinda doesn't matter in rankings. Rankings are based on what happened in reality, not what you think might happen, or should happen, or would happen. It's a sport, and rankings are based on wins and losses. You beat relevant people, you rise, you lose to people below you, you fall.

If you were ranking people based off of potential, they would look drastically different that reality.

I thought Cain Velasquez was going to mop the floor with Nog, but that didn't mean going into that fight Cain was ranked higher than him. Rankings have some subjectivity to it, but ranking them on potential would be WAAAAAY too arbitrary. Rankings HAVE to be based on accomplishments, or they are worthless. At least in a sport.

Couldn't you people keep the useless ranking discussions to Sherdog and have this forum be about the game? Yes?

Rankings aren't a part of keeping a mod updated?

[Couture=Legend]

But none of them have left the first round.

Yes but there's a difference between saying Carwin has finished everyone in the first round (which is true) & saying Carwin has knocked everyone out in the first round (which is not true)

[majesty95]

Your all about recent performance and Fedor just lost in 90 seconds, but he drops to just #2, makes sense... And Barnett? Really? Your serious? Josh hasent doesnt anything in about 5 years to make him even close to worthy of being in a top 10 spot. You say to be the best you have to beat the best, well when was the last time Barnett fought a top 10 guy, much less beat a top 10 guy? Dont worry Ill answer for you, it was December 31st 2006 when he lost to Nog.

OK, so Fedor can fight nobody and be arguably the best P4P fighter in the world for several years running but Barnett fights a few nobodies and there's no way he's a Top 10 HW? Interesting

[SeanMcFly]

Was looking at Fedor's last Ten Fights. I'm neutral-negative on the whole Fedor hype, I honestly don't think he could stand a chance in the UFC against the top guys.

Loss - Fabricio Werdum - Submission
Win - Brett Rogers - TKO
Win - Andrei Arlovski - KO
Win - Tim Sylvia - Submission
Win - Hong Man Choi - Submission
Win - Matt Lindland - Submission
Win - Mark Hunt - Submission
Win - Mark Coleman - Submission
Win - Zuluzinho - Submission
Win - Mirko Filipovic - Decision

Judging this record, I'll give him credit for the win over Cro Cop, Zuluzinho I never thought much of, but I don't have an opinion of him due to the fact that I've only seen his Fedor fight. Mark Coleman was 41 when this happened, and looking at Mark's past five before the Fedor fight, he was 3-2, with wins over Don Frye, Milco Voorn and a freak finish against Rua. Mark Hunt now, really, Size, Chin Strength and Stand-Up are his only real advantages. I didn't see this fight, so I don't really know if Fedor knocked him down, or took him down, but submitting a kick-boxer usually isn't an accomplishment. Matt Lindland now. Lindland's a natural 185, so did anybody really expect him to win against Fedor? Hong Man Choi... just... Somehow I don't think that was a difficult fight for Fedor once it hit the ground. We can skip Tim Sylvia, since he's been on a downward spiral. Arlovski, I'm not quite sure about my opinion on him. He beat Rothwell and Nelson, but lost to Fedor and has lost the past two as well. Rogers is still green, and he's one of my favourite fighters, so I'd be biased on my opinion.

Now Fedor loses to Werdum. Werdum was handled easy by Dos Santos, and Werdum beat Fedor. Where does that put Dos Santos on the rankings now?

Really, I'm biased on the whole Fedor issue, because as I stated above, I'm neutral-negative on him. But at this point, I firmly believe that if he fought anybody of high calibre in the UFC, he'd lose. Just my opinion though.

[seanmc]

1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Brock Lesnar [IF he beats Carwin i'd put him above Fedor]
3. Fabricio Werdum
4. Shane Carwin [IF he beats Brock i'd put Brock down at 4, Werdum at 2 & Carwin at 3]
5. Cain Velasquez

1st major flaw is Fedor at 1. Then Werdum at 3. Fedor has beat up nobodies over the last 4 years so he's not even in the Heavyweight picture. Werdum was hardly top 10 so him catapulting up to 3 for tapping a legend who hasn't beat anybody in years is a joke.

Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you but why does everybody seem to think Fedor is some kind of god? He beat Tim Sylvia, who then immediately loss to Ray Mercer. That 2nd loss tells ya how much a joke he was at the time. Then he got beat up by Arlovski, until he landed 1 punch, lucky or not, you decide. Then Brett Rogers, an overweight, overrated tire mechanic who is a NOBODY, was kicking his ass also, until he landed 1 punch. All of you huggers need to differentiate HISTORY from NOW. Yes, historically Fedor is an all time great. He beat the best, IN THE PAST. Now, he fights nobodies, and as of late, loses. Fedor hasn't been at or near the top for years. It's sad how delusional all of the nuthugging fans and the tards over at Sherdog really are.

[RingofHonorGuard]

1st major flaw is Fedor at 1. Then Werdum at 3. Fedor has beat up nobodies over the last 4 years so he's not even in the Heavyweight picture. Werdum was hardly top 10 so him catapulting up to 3 for tapping a legend who hasn't beat anybody in years is a joke.

Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you but why does everybody seem to think Fedor is some kind of god? He beat Tim Sylvia, who then immediately loss to Ray Mercer. That 2nd loss tells ya how much a joke he was at the time. Then he got beat up by Arlovski, until he landed 1 punch, lucky or not, you decide. Then Brett Rogers, an overweight, overrated tire mechanic who is a NOBODY, was kicking his ass also, until he landed 1 punch. All of you huggers need to differentiate HISTORY from NOW. Yes, historically Fedor is an all time great. He beat the best, IN THE PAST. Now, he fights nobodies, and as of late, loses. Fedor hasn't been at or near the top for years. It's sad how delusional all of the nuthugging fans and the tards over at Sherdog really are.

*cracks fingers* Allow me to dissect this here train wreck...

When Fedor absolutely demolished him, it killed Tim's motivation and honestly, probably his fighting soul. He's never looked the same, especially in his standup. All of his confidence is gone. So when he came in obese against Mercer it was really no big surprise when Mercer knocked his head off. I mean it's Ray Mercer.... He's a fighter. Just because the guy is aging and retired doesn't mean he can't throw a massive punch. Power is the last thing that goes from a fighter, and when you've trained one discipline your whole life, technique makes up for power even when it starts leaving. The sad reality of it is, Ray Mercer may very well have knocked a prime Tim Sylvia out. We have no idea. I certainly would have been more shocked if Sylvia was athletic and/or had a better than below average wrestling game.. The point still remains that Sylvia was the face of Heavyweight MMA for a while, and he had name recognition... It was a good way to re-introduce Fedor to the American audience.

Arlovski was on the best streak of his career, and looking the best he's ever looked. He was being competitive with Fedor, and made a huge mistake against a guy who that doesn't fly with. End of story. Fedor destroyed two former UFC heavyweight champions, both in the first round in impressive fashion.

Say what you want about Brett Rogers being a tire mechanic, blah blah blah... The fact is anytime there's a fighter in a position where he has absolutely nothing to lose, he's dangerous. Anyone that's ever played a competitive sport knows this, even on team sports.

I don't even like Fedor, I enjoyed watching Werdum choke him out. But don't be delusional. You call out Sherdog fans as being so, but you're in the process of bordering on that Sherdog Fedor hate train that's popular these days.... Hey pot, it's me kettle. How's it goin?

The fact of the matter is... beating "nobodies" or not, going undefeated in a sport where anything can happen for as long as Fedor did(barring the cut) is ridiculous. If you can't accept how amazing that is, then you've really missed the point. And also, the "losing as of late" really brings a smile to my face. You act as though Fedor getting caught in a submission is somehow relative to him buying the farm on his career. The dude would still completely dominate 90% of the heavyweights based on his legend and ability alone, and I'd give him a 50/50 chance against the top 10%.

[Couture=Legend]

1st major flaw is Fedor at 1. Then Werdum at 3. Fedor has beat up nobodies over the last 4 years so he's not even in the Heavyweight picture. Werdum was hardly top 10 so him catapulting up to 3 for tapping a legend who hasn't beat anybody in years is a joke.

Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you but why does everybody seem to think Fedor is some kind of god? He beat Tim Sylvia, who then immediately loss to Ray Mercer. That 2nd loss tells ya how much a joke he was at the time. Then he got beat up by Arlovski, until he landed 1 punch, lucky or not, you decide. Then Brett Rogers, an overweight, overrated tire mechanic who is a NOBODY, was kicking his ass also, until he landed 1 punch. All of you huggers need to differentiate HISTORY from NOW. Yes, historically Fedor is an all time great. He beat the best, IN THE PAST. Now, he fights nobodies, and as of late, loses. Fedor hasn't been at or near the top for years. It's sad how delusional all of the nuthugging fans and the tards over at Sherdog really are.

I'm not a huge fan of Fedor, i have alot of respect for him & i like to watch his fights but end of the day the real "tards" who follow MMA are people with the kind of opinion that you have! Fedor destroyed Sylvia, a guy who many people were picking to win that fight & when he didn't it's ohh but 'Sylvia's overrated' & just for the record Ray Mercer, the former heavyweight BOXING champion, knocked out an MMA fighter who choose to stand with him, shock horror! Same with Arlovski, you need to go back & watch the fight again if you think Arlovski was beating Fedor up.. Sure he was winning but beating him up? Don't think so.

The way you go on you'd be forgiving for thinking Fedor just got his ass kicked by Fabricio Werdum! Lets get real here, He lost to a 2x BJJ World Champion, one of the best BJJ practisioners in the sport period! Fedor's overall skillset may be better but Werdum is lightyears ahead of Fedor in brazilian jiu-jitsu so i don't know about you but as soon as that fight went to the ground i wasn't the least bit surprised to see how it finished.

If you think Fedor is now irrelavant just because he lost 1 fight & had a few scary moments against other recent opponents then well i don't think it's the guys on Sherdog who are delusional tbh. No fighter has a define right to win any fight, there all tough guys with incredible skills, maybe you should learn to respect that.

[TheBrockLock]

OK, so Fedor can fight nobody and be arguably the best P4P fighter in the world for several years running but Barnett fights a few nobodies and there's no way he's a Top 10 HW? Interesting

Huge difference in the qualtiy of opponents that Fedor fought compared to Barnett, Fedors last 4 fights have been against heavyweight who were in the top 10 HW at the time. Barnett has fought Mighty Mo, Gilbery Yvel, Pedro Rizzo and Jeff Monson in the past 4 years. None of them even close to top 10 HW at the time. Barnetts dodging of qualtity oppoents is on a whole other level compared to what M-1 and Fedor do.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Huge difference in the qualtiy of opponents that Fedor fought compared to Barnett, Fedors last 4 fights have been against heavyweight who were in the top 10 HW at the time. Barnett has fought Mighty Mo, Gilbery Yvel, Pedro Rizzo and Jeff Monson in the past 4 years. None of them even close to top 10 HW at the time. Barnetts dodging of qualtity oppoents is on a whole other level compared to what M-1 and Fedor do.

Barnett made it hard for anyone to rank him when he ruined his fight with Fedor here in the States by testing for illegal substances. He's a good grappler, and he was very good toward the end of his UFC and PRIDE days, but again.... getting caught for steroids three times isn't going to do anything for the fan's perception... it's hard to not be biased against someone when you know a few of their fights could have gone differently if he wasn't juicing for athletic gain. And yeah, before someone says "all pro athletes take steroids", please consider taking that opinion and choking on it because it's false, and it's what fighters(and the fans of those fighters) want you to believe.

Barnett hasn't beaten anyone of note in years, his last solid win being over Nogueira. His striking game is worse than Lesnar's, despite being around over a decade before. He took a ridiculously long time to put away Gilbert Yvel, who should have been a one round out submission for him, especially once he grounded him..

So yeah, Barnett has no business being on any top ten rankings, unless it's a Best Damn Sports Show "Most Embarassing Roiders" Top 10.

[ecw413]

Win - Tim Sylvia - KO

Just wanted to point out that Fedor actually submitted Sylvia with a rear naked. Your point is still made regardless, but just sayin.

[SeanMcFly]

Just wanted to point out that Fedor actually submitted Sylvia with a rear naked. Your point is still made regardless, but just sayin.

Woops :p Guess I just kind of went down the list by accident, thanks for pointing that out. Weird thing is is that I saw the fight too