vocal fan base questions/discussion

[panix04]

Another gret feature chalked up! Incidentally, please, please, please dub this the "randy Orton effect"

EDIT: I actually meant Cena effect - the Orton/Cena argument has gone on for so long my brain kinda got muddled.

[eayragt]

Panix, are you officially living on this forum now?

Anyway, this is great. It could also be a good thing for bookers themselves, to get them to look at their rookie a second time, and suddenly realise - they actually suck!

[panix04]

:D pretty much tbh, its troll here or troll on somebody else's forums, atleast the food here is good!

[Dolfanar]

I wonder if there is also the possibility of turning this into the "Rocky Maivia" effect.

Let's not forget that before the millions... and millions were chanting "Rocky! Rocky! Rocky!" they were chanting "Rocky sucks! Rocky Sucks!"...

All it took was a heel turn and an attitude (read: Gimmick) change...

[D-Lyrium]

Pfft, it's quite obviously the Tommy Dreamer effect :p

Awesome feature though. IIRC, wasn't there something similar in 04, where if you pushed, say, a worker with no technicaly skills in a Pure fed the fans would turn on him instantly? I forgot what the message was, but it was something like "The fans don't want to see [Wrestler X] wrestle."

[MarcK]

So is there going to be a road agent note now saying that the fans started chanting "you can't wrestle"?

Also maybe certain arenas (such as the Hammerstein Ballroom) could have high levels of rowdy fans or something.

[FINisher]

Could also be ECW/Cena effect. Or anyone WWE based wrestler in the "new" ECW. Or, last Wrestlemania, Cena vs. Triple H, awesome reaction.

This is almost the best new feature, IMO. Great, thank you.

[The Stallion]

This reminds me of Wrestle Spirit when during the matches you would get the "The Is Awesome" chants and what not. Great new feature to add to another great game.

[weirdo_man]

I'm wondering if when they don't like a guy, can you turn him heel and have it be a positive effect? Or no matter what, will he not get over when your fans don't like him?

[D-Lyrium]

Wait, that last comment reminded me of who this is clearly REALLY based on. This is the TEW rendition of the EWBers favourite: "X-Pac heat"! :D

Where the fans boo him, not because he's a great heel, but because he ******* sucks and they want him off TV.

I'd imagine if you turned him heel it wouldn't make any difference.

[weirdo_man]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, which was why I was really confused when someone mentioned Rocky Maivia, who had nothing to do with vocal fan base but rather that he was just a heel.

So basically, this means that I could be running a hardcore promotion, hire the guy that I can tell is going to headline my promotion and take it to the top, and nevermind, because the fans don't like that pretty boy.

Yeah that'll add an interesting element on top of the Billy Gunn effect... damn it, the game just got harder! (By damn it, I mean good :))

[panix04]

i swear i get X-Pac heat in amateur theatre when i was playing a rat in the pied piper at last years panto!

[weirdo_man]

lol... wow Panix. And also, I don't get why people didn't like X-Pac, or the 1-2-3 Kid, or Syxx Pac, I always liked him.

So to all you dissenters out there, I've got two words for you... how come?

And I think it's interesting that this thread has just 1 view more than the number of replies.

[TCP1]

Should help simulate 1993-96 ECW a lot better. Adam you really are going well out of your way to help us modders.

Just when I was losing the passion, he pulls me back in!

[weirdo_man]

Hooray for TCP Productions! On a related note, is Total Wrestling Supremacy dead?

[eayragt]

I was really confused when someone mentioned Rocky Maivia, who had nothing to do with vocal fan base but rather that he was just a heel.


Rocky debuted as a face, but he did receive major heat, which forced the heel change. He did suffer from this effect - but managed to fight through,

[Jacko00]

So will this happen for wrestlers that are not new? Like a Jeff Jarrett effect?

[vampmon]

This could really add alot to the popularity cap. It sounds like alot of fun.. I do wonder how deep it runs though. Like maybe with WWE's recent problems with the crowd wanting Cena to go heel.

[TCP1]

Hooray for TCP Productions! On a related note, is Total Wrestling Supremacy dead?

Nothing dies, it just gets reprioratized!

After TEW07 is released and I finish with my 1993-96 project, then Supremacy will return!

[Dolfanar]

Rocky debuted as a face, but he did receive major heat, which forced the heel change. He did suffer from this effect - but managed to fight through,

Not only did he fight through, he turned it completely in his favor.

To those who are relatively new fans, "The Rock" debuted as smiling, vanilla babyface "Rocky Maivia" who was pretty much pushed down everyone's throat, even winning the IC title very early in his run. The fans HATED him, despite the fact WWE tried everything in their power to get him over as an old school good guy. Once the "Rocky Sucks" chants got too big to ignore, they turned Rocky heel, and he started doing what ended up being his "Rock" persona, but int he beginning it was all to gain heel heat. "The people's champ" moniker started as a way to MOCK fans who were very vocally telling him that he "Sucked".

[Derek B]

And it was during that time that I feel he was at his best too. Don't forget the "Die Rocky Die" chants too, they were pretty loud :)

I like this feature already, it should force us to occassionally make some tough decisions and get rid of people we might like but who just aren't working.

Derek B

[The Masterpiece]

This, to me, is the best feature so far. I couldn't care less about having three brands or whatever - This will change the game for the better, so I'm pleased about it.

[Sartagis]

lol... wow Panix. And also, I don't get why people didn't like X-Pac, or the 1-2-3 Kid, or Syxx Pac, I always liked him.

So to all you dissenters out there, I've got two words for you... how come?

And I think it's interesting that this thread has just 1 view more than the number of replies.

Best way to describe while people hate X-Pac is with this joke that has been repeated many times over the years (ironically the joke works with Billy Gunn a little too). "Hey X-pac 1997 just called and they want their gimmick back." Him and his character hasn't evolved at all, sure lots of people have the same gimmick for a long time but the gimmick usually evolves or they add more facets to the character.....X-Pac didn't, add to that he was usually out of it and did some pretty lame ass promos and started getting sloppy in the ring and there you have it. Alot of people actually loved the 1-2-3 Kid in the beginning as he had some great matches with Ted Dibiase, Razor Ramon and Bret Hart. But then WWF started gettin more risque but the kid didn't he was still this little smiling kid. Once he started his Buzzsaw gimmick of Syxx/X-Pac he got over again but then stagnated again, people turned on him and we are at where we are now.

And now everyone knows how messed up he is in real life his rep has gone down the tubes. He needs to come back with a completely new gimmick and try to make people forget about the past. Then he might get popular again.

[weirdo_man]

lol.. it might be hard to get popular again and be taken seriously when you have a sex tape out on the internet with a woman who i can't get sexually excited while looking at naked because i get frightened from all of her muscles

[Sartagis]

lol.. it might be hard to get popular again and be taken seriously when you have a sex tape out on the internet with a woman who i can't get sexually excited while looking at naked because i get frightened from all of her muscles
Not to mention her mangina. Wait I just did mention it. *shudders*

[Remianen]

Not to mention her mangina. Wait I just did mention it. *shudders*

Damn you to hell, Sartagis. Just when I managed to bleach that image from my mind, you bring it back. :(

(Yes I've seen the tape. It's like watching the entire Faces of Death series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faces_Of_Death), nonstop)

[JWideman]

It would be my guess that the crowd will cheer or boo who they want, regardless of how you book them, based on some hidden criteria related to the type of crowd.

[cappyboy]

And it was during that time that I feel he was at his best too. Don't forget the "Die Rocky Die" chants too, they were pretty loud :)

The part I find funny about this is that the the venom even crossed over into the video game world. If you have the old WWF War Zone on your PS1's, they have the The Rock in the Miavia character and have the crowd screaming death threats at him.

[Extreme_Athlete33]

I love you, Adam.

Someone had to say it..:o

[Akki]

The part I find funny about this is that the the venom even crossed over into the video game world. If you have the old WWF War Zone on your PS1's, they have the The Rock in the Miavia character and have the crowd screaming death threats at him.

War Zone is the greatest wrestling game of all time!!!! I mean, second to TEW05. Yeah... OK, War Zone is the fourth greastest wrestling game of all time, but the best on the PS1.

Dammit, I think this feature is gonna make me frustrated. I LIKE Cena and X-Pac. Though I DO hate Randy Orton. Absolutely hate him.

Great feature, though.

BTW, Adam made a type. It should be "merciless" not "unmerciless".

[NickC13573]

Adam, Will fans also just shut up for some wrestlers? Like Chris Masters?

[Maxi]

Very good feature. Allthough i was expecting something different, like after every show you can read over a few opinions from the fans to see what they think about someone etc.

This is still a great addition never the less.

[djlightning]

War Zone is the greatest wrestling game of all time!!!! I mean, second to TEW05. Yeah... OK, War Zone is the fourth greastest wrestling game of all time, but the best on the PS1.

Dammit, I think this feature is gonna make me frustrated. I LIKE Cena and X-Pac. Though I DO hate Randy Orton. Absolutely hate him.

Great feature, though.

BTW, Adam made a type. It should be "merciless" not "unmerciless".

I don't know Akki, War Zone was good, probably the best based on playing moves and all, but I really like how in Smackdown:Know Your Role you could actually have multiplayer seasons. My friend and I used to play that quite a bit, and really enjoyed it. Then they came out with Shut Your Mouth and no more multiplayer. I have not enjoyed any of THQ's WWE games as much as Know Your Role since. That's the one thing I like Best about Adam and TEW, sure sometime he will take out a feature that we the consumer love, but Adam is available for us to let him know we want it back. And if TEW07 is any indication (and I believe it is) Adam actually listens to what our money has to say. This is why I believe Adam is going to be very successful in Video Game programming, because when it gets right down to it. It's what the players want to play, not what the programmers want to program.

[TEWFan]

I was shocked cause I got an email from EA Sports asking me to take a survey and help make the next NFL Head Coach better. To me it felt like they where apologizing and admiting how ****ty that game was.


But Adam has always listened to us. That is what I like, that I can come here and vent about stuff I dislike and stuff I want in and more than likely Adam will read the post and think about what I said. That means a lot to me.


I love what is going on now with TEW. It is like a collection of everything I wanted 05 to have. Just tell me we can buy out companies again and I am set.

[TeemuFoundation]

But how does this work... relly? Is it ALWAYS negative if a worker gets those bad reactions? Because, if you ask me, the negative reactions were the best thing that could have happened to John Cena. They at least made him somewhat interesting. And the mixed crowd qas the only thing that kept me watching the WrestleMania 22 main event. As well as the RVD vs. Cena match from One Night Stand. If you ask me, the negative reactions could be turned positive if played right and they should give the overness of a worker a huge boost. Because, regardless of what they thought of him, EVERYBODY chanted for Cena when he was the Champion. That = Overness.

[Payne]

I am just curious how this happens. Do we HEAR the fans booing? Or will there be a comment somewhere along the line? Either way, this is a cool feature.

[Remianen]

But how does this work... relly? Is it ALWAYS negative if a worker gets those bad reactions? Because, if you ask me, the negative reactions were the best thing that could have happened to John Cena. They at least made him somewhat interesting. And the mixed crowd qas the only thing that kept me watching the WrestleMania 22 main event. As well as the RVD vs. Cena match from One Night Stand. If you ask me, the negative reactions could be turned positive if played right and they should give the overness of a worker a huge boost. Because, regardless of what they thought of him, EVERYBODY chanted for Cena when he was the Champion. That = Overness.

You know, you have a point. I would imagine the absolute worst crowd reaction a worker can get would be utter silence. But whether they're cheering or booing or somewhere in between, at least they're doing SOMETHING. And it's true that if folks are constantly booing a face, turn him heel and those boos become a GOOD thing. I think Cena's problem is, he LOOKS like a face and there's no amount of mean muggin' that's going to change that.

And Payne, I think we're gonna have to wait til release day to find out exactly HOW it's indicated.

[MarcK]

I think Cena's problem is, he LOOKS like a face and there's no amount of mean muggin' that's going to change that.

Have you forgotten the great heel run he had in 2003?

[weirdo_man]

I would guess he has if he doesn't even know about it...? And I also don't know about it because I didn't/don't watch WWE except to study and learn, heh.

All I know is that I hate John Cena because he is one of the worst wrestlers in the world, yet he was the WWE champion for... how long? Basically, the guy can't wrestle his way out of a wet paper bag, and that's not all that difficult to do.

[mitsukaikira]

Well, I think if the E has proven anything in the past 10 years or so is that you don't need to be a good wrestler at all to be champion.

[Captain Kayfabe]

Well, I think if the E has proven anything in the past 20 years or so is that you don't need to be a good wrestler at all to be champion.

Here, I fixed your quote for you. Unless you considered Hogan, Slaughter and Ultimate Warrior good wrestlers. :)

[ItsNotMyFault]

Why would you have to be a good wrestler to be the champion of a sports entertainment company? Oh yeah you wouldn't you'd have to be a good entertainer and over with the fans in either a negative or positive way and Cena is (or was) a good entertainer and he still is over with the fans.

So what does it mattar if a guy can't wrestle his way out of a paper bag?

[cappyboy]

Here, I fixed your quote for you. Unless you considered Hogan, Slaughter and Ultimate Warrior good wrestlers. :)

Man, I thought this "fixed your quote" routine had died off with the abandonment of Usenet. Granted, your revision and extension is 100% accurate. Guys like Hogan, Warrior and Yokozuna embody his point as much as those he referenced.

But this "fixed your quote" rubbish is terribly rude and annoying. The guy used the time frame he intended. I don't know his history. But it could be he was doing the smart thing and stopping where he had the knowledge to speak about. That's good enough for me to not correct him. I should think it would be enough for any reasonable person.

[rufas2000]

So what does it mattar if a guy can't wrestle his way out of a paper bag?

You can get away with having no wrestling skill if you are a great entertainer. But its better if you can be somebody like Ric Flair, Kurt Angle or Shawn Michaels who are great entertainers and great wrestlers. Being able to do both well gives you added value.

Concerning Cena: I am not a Cena hater (pretty apathetic actually) but his entertainment skills are clearly below Hogan, Warrior, Rock and Austin. Furthermore Rock and Austin were OK in the ring and Hogan had a formula that never grew tired. Warrior is considered a failure as a champion and as a successor to Hogan.

If Cena could go in the ring the fans might not be so hard on him. He wouldn't have to be great, average would do it. Average skill, good entertainer equals a worker people will care about.

Also consider that in the days that Hogan & Warrior were champs the champion very rarely wrestled on television. When Warrior did wrestle on TV his matches were three minutes long. Now the champ (like Cena) wrestles on TV as much as anyone else. Because Cena's in ring ability isn't good it brings down the segments in which he is wrestling.

And I think fans want to be entertained by the matches. Gone are the days when two roided stiffs confronting each other is going to go over with fans simply due to their size.

Summary: while the megastars of yesteryear could get away with being incompetent in the ring, today's environment combined with the lack of mega entertainers like Hogan etc. means that in almost all cases it does matter if someone can wrestle his way out of a paper bag.

But I will say that in entertainment feds like WWE the opposite would also be true. Great wrestlers who can't entertain will also find that they have a huge problem getting over. Gotta be able to do both or be a legend at one or the other.

[Remianen]

Have you forgotten the great heel run he had in 2003?

Yeah, it was SO great that they felt the need to turn him face. :rolleyes:

I think we have very different views of what constitutes a 'great heel run'. Hogan, Rock, 'Taker, Austin all had 'great heel runs' in my view. Cena? Hahahahahahahahaha! ;)

[Robbie_V]

Adam, Will fans also just shut up for some wrestlers? Like Chris Masters?


Haas Pop.

[Captain Kayfabe]

Man, I thought this "fixed your quote" routine had died off with the abandonment of Usenet. Granted, your revision and extension is 100% accurate. Guys like Hogan, Warrior and Yokozuna embody his point as much as those he referenced.

But this "fixed your quote" rubbish is terribly rude and annoying. The guy used the time frame he intended. I don't know his history. But it could be he was doing the smart thing and stopping where he had the knowledge to speak about. That's good enough for me to not correct him. I should think it would be enough for any reasonable person.

Sorry, I didn't realize that some people were so easily offended by a little harmless humor.

[mitsukaikira]

I wasn't, so don't worry about it. Now, I WAS going to say 30 years, but I figured I'd catch hell for doing so. So, I rounded up.

[sirniles2000]

Yeah, it was SO great that they felt the need to turn him face. :rolleyes:

I think we have very different views of what constitutes a 'great heel run'. Hogan, Rock, 'Taker, Austin all had 'great heel runs' in my view. Cena? Hahahahahahahahaha! ;)

I was with you on Hogan, The Rock, and Taker having great heel runs. But Austin? When was his great heel run?

If you are talking about before he won the world title, then I can see it. But if you are talking about that turn where he joined Vince Mcmahon, then I have to wonder how closely you watched it. That was one of the most horrible heel runs ever.

[Woodsmeister]

I was with you on Hogan, The Rock, and Taker having great heel runs. But Austin? When was his great heel run?

If you are talking about before he won the world title, then I can see it. But if you are talking about that turn where he joined Vince Mcmahon, then I have to wonder how closely you watched it. That was one of the most horrible heel runs ever.

yeh i agree, i know i always marked out for austin even though he was suppost to be a heel, i thought his character was hilarious though. some of the stuff he and angle did fueding with wcw were really funny (imo). think the whole alliance/wwf angle would have been better if he was a babyface.

[Remianen]

I was with you on Hogan, The Rock, and Taker having great heel runs. But Austin? When was his great heel run?

If you are talking about before he won the world title, then I can see it. But if you are talking about that turn where he joined Vince Mcmahon, then I have to wonder how closely you watched it. That was one of the most horrible heel runs ever.

Before he won the world title. But, I didn't see too many people complaining during the time when he was leader of the Alliance ("What?").

[cappyboy]

I wasn't, so don't worry about it. Now, I WAS going to say 30 years, but I figured I'd catch hell for doing so. So, I rounded up.

Well, considering that would have been bringing you into the realm of guys like Sammartino and Backlund, you probably would have. But whether we're talking your time frame of Captain Kayfabe's, your point still remains. It has been quite a while since the E could consistently promote champions worthy of the name.

[rajde]

How about overness? Will some peoples overness increase from this and others decrease or will all wrestlers decrease?

[KeyserSoze]

I've mixed feelings about this feature.

Oh don't get me wrong, it's a great one. And I think it's not just for some companies but for all. But I have some doubts.

1-It's not very near of momentum? I always understand the momentum as how the people react to one wrestler. There will be related?

2-I have mixed reasons to have a fast-changed momentum/vocal fan view and to have a slow-changed momentum/vocal fan.

A fast changed system rewards faster the good bookers and add a component of uncertainity

A slow changed system is for me more real while rewards the long term strategies.

I've high hopes anyway.

[The Ego]

Austins heel run
= Run up (time) of the King of the Ring 96, he was calling out Bret Hart, this was his classic heel era.

[panix04]

the problem with austins alliance heel turn was, the fact that as a face he had bullied people, beat people up (including faces), stunned women and genuinley wreaked havoc. How was his heel character any different?

[The Ego]

exactly, so my point (aimed at...sirniles_2000) is that Austin entered the WWE as a heel with Dibiase, then became "Stone Cold" and was a terrific heel!! his best in ring work too!! That my friend, was his heel run.

[Torri]

Austin, IMO was never really a heel. I mean, when he started out, sure. But then he was getting cheered massively as a heel and a face. It didn't matter whether or not he stunned Trish Stratus or whether he stunned Triple H, he was being cheered.

[Sartagis]

I'd say Austin stoped being a heel as soon as he did the "Austin 3:16 says I just kicked your ass" promo on Roberts after he won KOTR.

[thug saint oga]

first thing's first, akki and djlightning, wwf no mercy for the nintendo 64 is WITHOUT a doubt the best console wrestling game. no doubt at all. had to say that. you should give it a try if you never have. it's glorious.....

Basically, the guy can't wrestle his way out of a wet paper bag, and that's not all that difficult to do.

i don't know about that. if you ever saw john cena's E debut match against kurt angle and the matches following that, he actually looked really good. and not because he was in there with angle either.

i think it's one of those things where his gimmick took over and he stopped using his technical and power moves and moved to a brawler "street thug" style, who did just about nothing.

now, i do not like john cena, but he CAN be a good wrestler when allowed. you've got to keep in mind that the E limits who does what moves and what kinda matches they have. but i think if he weren't stuck in the gimmick he has now, people wouldn't critique his wrestling skills as much as they do now. but as far as what he does on raw nowadays.....yeah, cena sucks. hell, raw sucks even worse.

[The Stallion]

first thing's first, akki and djlightning, wwf no mercy for the nintendo 64 is WITHOUT a doubt the best console wrestling game. no doubt at all. had to say that. you should give it a try if you never have. it's glorious.....



i don't know about that. if you ever saw john cena's E debut match against kurt angle and the matches following that, he actually looked really good. and not because he was in there with angle either.

i think it's one of those things where his gimmick took over and he stopped using his technical and power moves and moved to a brawler "street thug" style, who did just about nothing.

now, i do not like john cena, but he CAN be a good wrestler when allowed. you've got to keep in mind that the E limits who does what moves and what kinda matches they have. but i think if he weren't stuck in the gimmick he has now, people wouldn't critique his wrestling skills as much as they do now. but as far as what he does on raw nowadays.....yeah, cena sucks. hell, raw sucks even worse.
I have to agree with this. Though Im not a big Cena fan (nor a WWE fan fot that matter), I think its unfair to rank on a workers wrestling ability when the E does not let there workers do anything but the big man style. I watched The Great American Bash (some friends bought it) and the best match of the night was Kendrick & London vs. Kash & Noble. The WWE holds back the workers ability in the ring for various reasons so it is unfair to bais there actual wrestling know-how on what you see on WWE TV.

[ColtCabana]

Austins heel run
= Run up (time) of the King of the Ring 96, he was calling out Bret Hart, this was his classic heel era.

His promo where he said put an "S" infront of the word Hitman and you get my opinion of Bret Hart, was pretty funny at the time but his ecw promo's were alot better. (His impression of Dusty is hilarious(sp?) :) )