T-Zone 2007

[TsuMirren]

I think one aspect of promotion's dying off is that with the size of salaries, you can't compete at local, small or entry level regional level for a sustained period of time. DOTT does work, but there's still a number of promotions dying off. Difference is that the database has around 30, T-Zone has 56 to start with.

For the UK, you have some absolutely ludicrous salaries/appearance fees. You would, therefore, need to adapt every promotion's money to fit. So, let's say WZW start with 50,000 and they need D cards to develop, well they need D talent and therefore end up paying say 350+ on their talent and much more for decent higher level guys. Suddenly, because they're set to start as small, they lose everything in order to run a 3 hour show.

I've always felt that the ticket prices are set too low, remember we're talking dollars here. Most UK promotions charge say £8, then it goes up in stages. There's no option to stagger, so you can't price different seating plans or even have staged pricing for a few ringside seats. Even without that, prices are still rather low.

I've barely gotten past February 07 in my auto sim, left it on auto clicker for an hour and a bloody half last night. So, as soon as I've lost around a day of my life i'll be able to look at a year properly and dig into reasoning for promotions dying off.

It is worrying though, as I'm assuming none of the other testers have edited the affluence and population %'s for the game world. I set mine to DOTT levels, plus edited the UK ones as I felt suited. I may find my year run loses more, as the population is less and not as affluent as in other tests.

[Consrvtve]

TY Adam for offering to help and responding so quickly to your customers in need.

[Rams]

Beyond any issues with the game itself I think there may be a problem with the way real world mods are created.

TEW 07 intentionally doesn't simulate the real world perfectly. Creating data based solely on the real world environment might not be the best approach. The data should be based on the real world but altered to work in the game environment. That may ultimately mean unrealistic stats but playability in my mind is more important.

That said I'm confident Adam and Forlan will make the necessary changes. Both work hard and I appreciate their efforts.

[Viggo Vickers]

I can't believe after so long T-Zone is still going! Though I very much look forward to the release of the mod.

As for the data, if this is the same data from back to the first release of TEW, there is bound to be issues, here, there and somewhere. I remember back as one of the releases I gave up working on it, was it was so HUGE, its crazy to be able to balances out that much data in your free time and call it a hobby. And I only did the Japanese data. Things do get overlooked a lot, from one worker's selling, to another's brawling skill.

I downloaded one "localized" mod of a certain region, which is reasonable small compared to other mobs, and even that had some (you could call) silly mistakes or overlooked subjects of data.

I don't know who is working on the update now, but I'm pretty sure Forlan is there somewhere. Kudos to you all.

CHEERS!

//Viggo Vickers

[HugeRockStar760]

I offered to help with the project, but was flatly refused. This is what happens when you limit the testing to friends instead of people that can help.

Like the previous posters with experience in gaming have already stated, it's not the game that's the problem. The fact is, the game is only going to go so far in simulating an accurate wrestling industry. You'd need a supercomputer to do that. But you can definitely get close if you know how to tweak the stats.

And Forlan, if you are giving up on the project (for a lack of a better word), it would be quite unfair to everyone that followed the thread if you didn't release what you had. Maybe other people can help you figure this thing out. I just don't get talking about this for weeks, only to say, "Oh don't want to release something that might be unplayable." Unplayable to who? You? The testers? That's a small percentage.

[panix04]

Forlan hardly chose his friends, at the risk of airing dirty laundry me and Forlan have had severe dis-agreements in the past. Thats all in the past now but i certainly wouldn't say we are friends just yet. Anyway just my tuppenceworth, im just a little ofended you are seemingly questioning my ability as a tester!

[jbergey_2005]

DOTT and CV are very similiar in terms of workers, promotions and ratings therefore I am sure it is a great chance that DOTT will be a great mod as always.

TZones approach is basically set up with (WWE) being a wrestling monopoly. I think this is what causes the problems, they basically through the AI decisions decide the future of wrestling. Its possible starting out the WWE as a B instead of an A for overness would be benefitial to gameplay and fun factor(yet probably not realistic). Of course making the adjustments to the other organizations so WWE can keep their higher prestige.

[forlan]

Wow...Tim Vickers, long time no speak my cornish amigo, yes i am very much still in the thick of things indeed.

DOTT might work better in theory but like someone said all promotions were smaller then anyways so it might be that is the reason why.

I agree with Tsumirren on the wages thing as sometimes the wages are ludicrous and i cant really tell how the game works them, i start a game anc Castagnoli costs 100, Hero 350 then Larry Sweeney and others sometimes 1300 plus per appearance, it cripples the little fed.

I had a though opposite to jbergey,how about raising wwe overness, because at the moment in the USA they are 80, maybe 90 or something might make them "more global" although i'm just clutching at straws in fairness.

[panix04]

agree with Tsumirren on the wages thing as sometimes the wages are ludicrous and i cant really tell how the game works them, i start a game anc Castagnoli costs 100, Hero 350 then Larry Sweeney and others sometimes 1300 plus per appearance, it cripples the little fed.

i wouldn't quote me on this, but i think that wage's is dictated by overness and years of service. Just because in my own mod all the monsters in the 'destroy all monsters' fed have about 35 years service for the fed and they are all on sky high wage's. Just a guess though, i can run a few experiments if you like to see what effects wage's and what doesn't?

[forlan]

I cant back that up (sorry) as no matter where i hire Sweeney etc hes always pretty high, maybe cos of the amount of roles maybe, colour/manager/wrestler etc?

[panix04]

its certainly a possibility, i will do some tinkering tonight and see what i can come up with, it'll be like algebra - only funner!

[The-gamE]

what brand is Daivari on (is no longer listed on ECW)
i think he is moving to smackdown...

[Ransik]

Yes, I went to sleep, I do that once in a great while. ;)

Anyway, I'll send my data to Adam if forlan wants to send what he has too so maybe he can see what I've done on my end compared to what forlan has updated and see what he can figure out.

[forlan]

I already sent mine to adam as i figured timezones etc you might be in bed

[Adam Ryland]

remember we're talking dollars here.

We're not talking US dollars if that's what you mean. The money in TEW is a fictional universal dollar so that all promotions from around the world can use the same system, as it'd be a nightmare having everything converted between dollars, pounds, yen, etc, nobody would know what on earth was going on.

[Adam Ryland]

I already sent mine to adam as i figured timezones etc you might be in bed

edit - It arrived now.

[forlan]

I'll send it to your hotmail, must of sent it to your gds

[Ransik]

I sent mine, too.

It sucks... I spent 3 hours tweaking around WWE and TNA workers so the shows would go to a bare minimum of B-... and they all still got Cs.

[cyberkitten01]

Hurray for progress! Not hurray for the return of the gobby one!

[Ransik]

Don't ask me how I did it... but the data I sent to Adam is sustaining TNA's popularity and prestige... but it's still cancelling the shows.

[Adam Ryland]

I have taken an initial look at the data. My first thoughts are that the stats of the wrestlers are actually pretty accurate in terms of fitting to the game, so that's a good start. I think you're probably a little off on the Brawling stat for most of the big name wrestlers, but nothing too serious.

I have only taken a fairly quick look at the WWE so far, I will go into more depth with them and TNA tomorrow. This post is merely a "first glance" report.

The main problem that I can see, which is the one I believe Ransik was reporting, is more of a conceptual issue than anything. You have it set up with WWE being Global with a three-way brand split. I believe that's it's 5 or 6 main eventers per brand at that level, so you are putting a requirement on the roster of between 15 and 18 main event level talents, and to maintain their current overness you really need the shows to be doing about a B grade, certainly no less than a B-. The problem is quite simply that the WWE does not have 18 workers capable of headlining a show while maintaining that level of quality, and definitely does not have the depth to also put on decent undercards. I think this is highlighted by the fact that Johnny Nitro ends up as a main eventer under the current conditions. So, in short, the current situation stretches the WWE resources far beyond what they can match. You can see this for yourselves by removing the brand split; they have the resources to do that, and you'll see their show quality improve.

The second issue is the breakdown of the non-wrestling members of the roster, as that is triggering mass firings due to the amount of people vying for a couple of positions.

The third issue is not related to the WWE as such, but is just a general observation - the relationship file provided is impressively complete, but has a lot of redundant data.

In regard to the first issue, whoever owns the mod has some hard decisions to make. The fact is that the real-life WWE does not have the resources to do three strong brands either, which is why ECW has become a "lower level" brand and the other two are struggling for main eventers, so the simulation is actually accurate. As I see it, you either need to improve the workers to fill the requirements, or lower the promotion to lessen the requirements. Personally I think you've been to generous with the WWE; I don't think they really warrant a Global rating anymore, and would be much better suited to an International or National level. Dropping them down a size (which I can help you with) would lower the requirements, meaning you'd need less main eventers. This would in turn improve the midcard, and thus improve their show quality.

The second issue I can help with by providing you with some concrete figures as to requirements and current levels. I will look into creating these figures for you, once you have made a decision as to changing the company size or not.

In regard to the third issue, I would strongly advise that whoever owns the mod takes an executive decision and cuts out a lot of the redundant data. My belief is that at the moment the relationship section has lost its focus, and moved away from "does this make the game better" and slipped into "does this make the database look more impressive".

[Mr T Jobs To Me]

I honestly wouldn't set Spike as a big network, as you mentioned in your other thread. I'd probably have it as a medium network with Risky/Cult programming, as it appeals only to a target audience of redneck men. SciFi would be exactly the same. USA.... It's a tough call, but maybe USA should also be medium with Mainstream programming. It's not like they're ratings juggernauts or anything.

[Ransik]

Sounds like a plan. Forlan will have to work with you Adam cause it's his data.

After reading what you put though I'm still curious as to why with Sci-Fi being a Small network... why would it can ECW after a few months when it's geting C and C+ shows?

[masterded]

just remember that USA should be the biggest of the cable channels. Hell you can't watch USA for more then 10 min without them reminding you now, and if you look it up it is true.

[MrKain]

Yeah, USA has actually garnered a huge following due to producing shows like Monk and Psych, and has come way far in terms on cable television...

[Ransik]

Well, I set up Spike as Medium, USA as Big (down from Huge) and CW down to Medium.

So I'm gonna see how this works and go from there.

But I still can't figure out what the issue is with WWE. I set all the gimmick rating and momentum with most TNA workers and that fixed the issue of their Prestige from going in the toilet... but it still sends WWE into the hole. Could be because of Stephanie and her booking but I dunno.

[forlan]

So basically the way i see it the main problem is not having a good enough roster to run three brands which is fair enough. This would also attribute to why they sign loads of people. Now i know nothing more than what you told me but surely if they sign more over people like they always seem to do and balance out to have the right balance in each part of the split then they shouldn't fall but they still do :s

Thanks for the help anyways and i think your recommendations are most likely the best way to go

[raynefall007]

Honestly, it's a matter of accuracy. Why the WWE does so well financially and ratings-wise these days is simply due to either nostaglia (DVD sales, etc.) or the viewers tuning in with the hope that something worthwhile will happen again.

Most viewers just watch it for the hope that it'll get better.

And the DVD sales and stuff like that, the things that WWE's monopoly have granted it to be able to do, you can't exactly simulate it TEW07. Viewer loyalty isn't exactly something you can simulate, because it's something that one can't find a particular reason for. Everyone has their own reasons.

Therefore, if this is made "close" to being correct, that is fine. Because by all rights and standards, WWE shouldn't still be doing as well as it does. Nor should TNA, with some of the crap their current product causes.

So unless the AI engine can be tweaked somehow to take into account how a variety of personal tastes affect viewership, I dunno how you'll get the problems to stop.

With an older mod or even the Cornellverse, you can see distinctions where it would be easy to figure out why someone would watch something over the other. However, trying to adapt today's product with the same simulation could be a serious task to undertake, just on the take that you're trying to simulate an odd situation with artificial intelligence vs. humans. Humans are so unpredictable, it's a wee bit difficult.

Just my opinion.

Anyways, keep up the good work forlan and crew. Kudos to Adam for helping with this and I look forward to how this mod works out.

[Ransik]

You know... I'm starting to think the WWE is destined to fail over the next few decades. Today's WWE.com poll is who has the bigger "johnson" between Vince and Trump. :rolleyes:

[coldheat422]

CW is bigger than USA being that USA is a cable channel and CW is not, correct?

[HugeRockStar760]

The WWE is global. Just because it is perceived to not have a great product anymore, doesn't change the fact it is still above TNA and any other competition. If the WWE can have sellouts in places like Mexico, England, Germany, Japan, Indonesia, New Zealand, and Austrailia, it's a global promotion. Unless the term global in TEW refers to running shows regularly across the world.

I think the results the testers are getting from the mod so far are accurate. The WWE really is stretched beyond its means.

And I agree, modders in general put too many relationships. After awhile, no one will work with anyone because everyone has these intertwined factors going against them. Only the most important relationships need to be included. Just because you read a rumor on some third rated website like wrestlezone doesn't mean it needs to be included in the game.

CW is bigger than USA being that USA is a cable channel and CW is not, correct?

Not every market has the CW. Just like not every market had UPN, so a lot of people couldn't watch Smackdown. It's not the same kind of network that CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC are. It's basically syndication.

[HugeRockStar760]

When you say the WWE signs a lot of wrestlers when the game begins, does that include their developmental wrestlers or just wrestlers from established promotions? It would seem more realistic to tweak the game to nudge the WWE to call up their developmental roster instead of going after TNA. Because the WWE hasn't signed that many TNA wrestlers. The only names I can recall offhand are Shannon Moore, Cassidy Riley, and Monty Brown).

[D16NJD16]

Honestly, it's a matter of accuracy. Why the WWE does so well financially and ratings-wise these days is simply due to either nostaglia (DVD sales, etc.) or the viewers tuning in with the hope that something worthwhile will happen again.

Most viewers just watch it for the hope that it'll get better.

And the DVD sales and stuff like that, the things that WWE's monopoly have granted it to be able to do, you can't exactly simulate it TEW07. Viewer loyalty isn't exactly something you can simulate, because it's something that one can't find a particular reason for. Everyone has their own reasons.

Therefore, if this is made "close" to being correct, that is fine. Because by all rights and standards, WWE shouldn't still be doing as well as it does. Nor should TNA, with some of the crap their current product causes.

So unless the AI engine can be tweaked somehow to take into account how a variety of personal tastes affect viewership, I dunno how you'll get the problems to stop.

With an older mod or even the Cornellverse, you can see distinctions where it would be easy to figure out why someone would watch something over the other. However, trying to adapt today's product with the same simulation could be a serious task to undertake, just on the take that you're trying to simulate an odd situation with artificial intelligence vs. humans. Humans are so unpredictable, it's a wee bit difficult.

Just my opinion.

Anyways, keep up the good work forlan and crew. Kudos to Adam for helping with this and I look forward to how this mod works out.

Yes.

[ACCBiggz]

Not every market has the CW. Just like not every market had UPN, so a lot of people couldn't watch Smackdown. It's not the same kind of network that CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC are. It's basically syndication.

It's still bigger. Now for the purpose of this mod/scenario, it doesn't matter persay and USA maybe deserves to be above it as well as other prominant cable stations (TNT, TBS, ESPN), but The CW is the next in line after NBC/CBS/ABC/FOX.

[D16NJD16]

I get Smackdown about 70% of the time here currently, and once baseball season rolls around, that will be more like 40%.

[HugeRockStar760]

It's still bigger. Now for the purpose of this mod/scenario, it doesn't matter persay and USA maybe deserves to be above it as well as other prominant cable stations (TNT, TBS, ESPN), but The CW is the next in line after NBC/CBS/ABC/FOX.

The CW is not bigger than USA. Compare the distribution of The CW compared to the USA Network. Unless the numbers have changed since last I checked, The CW is not offered in as many homes as USA Network is.

[Deadman36g]

I dont think anyone in the state of Arkansas gets CW, except for maybe Little Rock

[Adam Ryland]

So basically the way i see it the main problem is not having a good enough roster to run three brands which is fair enough. This would also attribute to why they sign loads of people. Now i know nothing more than what you told me but surely if they sign more over people like they always seem to do and balance out to have the right balance in each part of the split then they shouldn't fall but they still do :s

Thanks for the help anyways and i think your recommendations are most likely the best way to go

Theoretically that's true, but in practise it won't work, at least not in your mod. The issue you have is that to fill the main event gaps, they promote people like Ken Kennedy, Johnny Nitro, etc. This presents two problems:

A - They are not good enough to be main eventers, and so the quality of the main event level matches sinks.

B - The midcard is left with a big void where they used to be, and so the WWE has no alternative but to promote guys like Crime Time and The Highlanders up to that level. Now the midcard quality also sinks.

The end result is that you've stunk up almost the entire card because you're running a roster where nearly everybody is in the wrong position. Now the perfect solution would be for the WWE to sign a bunch of guys who truly belong in the main event. This would solve the problem because:

A - The main event is now of the correct quality, so the shows improve.

B - Kennedy, Nitro, etc, all get to go back to their true position, the midcard, where they can both learn to improve and prepare to eventually become main eventers, and also put on C+ \ B- level matches - matches that wouldn't be good enough for the main event, but are absolutely fine for the midcard.

Therefore, everything is fixed. The problem you have is that there aren't many people the WWE could sign to make that change - not an issue with your data as such, it's simply what is true in reality. Realistically, if we discard the old, injured and retired (so Austin, Hogan, etc) and the guys who aren't likely to return (Brock, Angle, Rock etc) then you're pretty much left with Chris Jericho as the only guy they can bring in and put straight into the main event. Seeing they need about 10 or 11 new guys in the current state of the mod, they're extremely short.

So to summarise, they can sign as many people as they like to fill the roster up, that's the easy part, but the issue they can't fix is the massive lack of true mega-stars. That's why I think dropping them a size or two will really help, as rather than being short by 10+ big names, they'll be short maybe 3 or 4 - a problem, but one that they can solve eventually by creating new stars. Your alternative would be to boost a few people's overness to artificially create new mega-stars, but then you're creating unrealistic data which is what you were keen to avoid in the first place.

[Ransik]

I only get CW from 8pm to 5am... the rest of the time it's FOX, so I don't think it's very wide ranged.

[BGSU StrangeCupofTea]

Really, does anyone care at the end of the day which network is actually bigger? All i care about is that the mod works with the game, and is accurate enough so it is playable. Not everyone is going to agree, and hence why the game comes witrh a pre-made editor to make everyone happy.
Let the mod creators do the work and shut up and be patient. Plain and simple.

[Ransik]

But I am a mod worker. :P

Nah seriously, the more I think about it the more I think CW isn't really all that big of a network considering in this state it shares it's time with FOX, and heck so far Smackdown has pre-empted half a dozen times already since the move.

Right now I'm running a new test with the networks dimmed down a bit and so far I haven't seen one word of warning from any of the networks on WWE or TNA. I've just hit the first week of March so it's still up in the air. I'll know how it goes when I set the Auto Clicker when I go to work later on this afternoon. But so far the ratings are holding steady in TNA, but in the WWE they're dipping a bit so my guess is one of their shows will end up geting cancelled before too long.

[BGSU StrangeCupofTea]

But I am a mod worker. :P

Nah seriously, the more I think about it the more I think CW isn't really all that big of a network considering in this state it shares it's time with FOX, and heck so far Smackdown has pre-empted half a dozen times already since the move.

Right now I'm running a new test with the networks dimmed down a bit and so far I haven't seen one word of warning from any of the networks on WWE or TNA. I've just hit the first week of March so it's still up in the air. I'll know how it goes when I set the Auto Clicker when I go to work later on this afternoon. But so far the ratings are holding steady in TNA, but in the WWE they're dipping a bit so my guess is one of their shows will end up geting cancelled before too long.

This should happen anyways - as the product that is seen on ECW is not that good to begin with. ECW isn't going to be going on forever, and I think the dip portrays this issue well. And ECW should be the least popular brand, and once that is gone that should get some of the talent to balance out - at least that's what I believe the computer AI would attempt to do with the roster if one of the show folds. Unless I'm misunderstanding the AI in this game.

[forlan]

Theoretically that's true, but in practise it won't work, at least not in your mod. The issue you have is that to fill the main event gaps, they promote people like Ken Kennedy, Johnny Nitro, etc. This presents two problems:

A - They are not good enough to be main eventers, and so the quality of the main event level matches sinks.

B - The midcard is left with a big void where they used to be, and so the WWE has no alternative but to promote guys like Crime Time and The Highlanders up to that level. Now the midcard quality also sinks.

The end result is that you've stunk up almost the entire card because you're running a roster where nearly everybody is in the wrong position. Now the perfect solution would be for the WWE to sign a bunch of guys who truly belong in the main event. This would solve the problem because:

A - The main event is now of the correct quality, so the shows improve.

B - Kennedy, Nitro, etc, all get to go back to their true position, the midcard, where they can both learn to improve and prepare to eventually become main eventers, and also put on C+ \ B- level matches - matches that wouldn't be good enough for the main event, but are absolutely fine for the midcard.

Therefore, everything is fixed. The problem you have is that there aren't many people the WWE could sign to make that change - not an issue with your data as such, it's simply what is true in reality. Realistically, if we discard the old, injured and retired (so Austin, Hogan, etc) and the guys who aren't likely to return (Brock, Angle, Rock etc) then you're pretty much left with Chris Jericho as the only guy they can bring in and put straight into the main event. Seeing they need about 10 or 11 new guys in the current state of the mod, they're extremely short.

So to summarise, they can sign as many people as they like to fill the roster up, that's the easy part, but the issue they can't fix is the massive lack of true mega-stars. That's why I think dropping them a size or two will really help, as rather than being short by 10+ big names, they'll be short maybe 3 or 4 - a problem, but one that they can solve eventually by creating new stars. Your alternative would be to boost a few people's overness to artificially create new mega-stars, but then you're creating unrealistic data which is what you were keen to avoid in the first place.

Thanks, i see where you are coming from now, so how much do you think it would be acceptable as far as reducing their overnesses and such?

[ACCBiggz]

The CW is not bigger than USA. Compare the distribution of The CW compared to the USA Network. Unless the numbers have changed since last I checked, The CW is not offered in as many homes as USA Network is.

CW is larger, plain and simple. It's network tv. It's not great network tv and not available everywhere, but especially with the merger it's always been larger. Anytime you check ratings for them they list 5 stations (CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, CW). Just because you may not recieve CW or like USA's programming better, does not mean USA is larger. It's a cable station.

In fact, often, usually Fridays for Smackdown and also at other times, The CW ties FOX for fourth in ratings. The CW soon will reach about 95% of the television audience, while cable and sateliette copmanies do not. In todays age they do in fact get a lot of viewers, but network tv and those who can not afford cable will dominate. The CW happens to be one of the lucky 5 stations that is available as a network station.

For the purpose of the mod, it doesn't matter as I said.

[Adam Ryland]

Thanks, i see where you are coming from now, so how much do you think it would be acceptable as far as reducing their overnesses and such?

It really depends on how far you want to go. I think a good case could have been made for them being International sized even if there weren't any roster issues, so I'd definitely recommend going at least that far. If that's acceptable then I can come up with a list of what you'd need to change to get them down to that size without putting them too close to Global or National (as you wouldn't want them to pop up or down a size straight away either).

[forlan]

I think International would be best since it still gives across their "Worldwide" impression somewhat but not worldwide force, on the other hand not National.

Just at the same time, you mentioned the relationships file, any help on which to take out that won't effect the game. The problem on the indies is groups of 5 or 6 travelling together so they all have a friendship to one another and its hard to just define which of them should go.

[HugeRockStar760]

Compare the amount of homes that receive CW compared to USA Network. That's all I'm asking you to do. Then, you'll realize that regardless if CW is grouped with the traditional over the air networks, it doesn't make it a network that would be viable for most promotions.

If you were running a promotion and you were offered a choice between running shows on the USA Network weekly or on The CW weekly, which would you choose?

[Adam Ryland]

I think International would be best since it still gives across their "Worldwide" impression somewhat but not worldwide force, on the other hand not National.

Just at the same time, you mentioned the relationships file, any help on which to take out that won't effect the game. The problem on the indies is groups of 5 or 6 travelling together so they all have a friendship to one another and its hard to just define which of them should go.

OK, I'll come up with the overness levels tomorrow.

With the relationships, remember that the wording was changed to Strong Friendship explicitly to stop people using it for every day friendships. It should only be used for lifelong friendships, the sort that are likely to endure post-wrestling; an example I would give would be Lance Storm and Chris Jericho, where they have been friends for ages, even when in different organisations.

The example I happened to see quite early in the file was Edge and Benoit being listed as such - that's definitely one I'd cut. I'd also cut almost all the "independent worker travelling companions" stuff. I'd estimate about 20 - 25% of your file is made up of stuff that is basically "fluff", so I'm not joking when I say you should be aiming to get rid of 400+ of the listed relationships. Not only isn't it needed, it's the main source of slowdown in the game, so you'll be speeding everything up immensely without losing anything from the game.

[forlan]

Thanks for that, yeah i'll try and trim down the relationships file and eagerly await your overness decisions tomorrow.

On a different note can people quit the tv size discussions as its already been sad it doesnt really matter for the game and stuff like that should go to the dog pound or something

[Rams]

This should happen anyways - as the product that is seen on ECW is not that good to begin with. ECW isn't going to be going on forever, and I think the dip portrays this issue well. And ECW should be the least popular brand, and once that is gone that should get some of the talent to balance out - at least that's what I believe the computer AI would attempt to do with the roster if one of the show folds. Unless I'm misunderstanding the AI in this game.

As far as I know the game treats all the brands as equal and that's clearly not the case in real life. From an AI stand point it might be best to scrap the ECW brand entirely. Of course people like me who want to play as the WWE would want ECW included so perhaps Forlan should suggest eliminating the ECW brand when not playing as the WWE.

[D16NJD16]

So I should go ahead and delete the ECW brand in my game? Do brands ever get dropped on their own in the game or are they stuck that way forever?

[Ransik]

I'm wondering forlan... would dropping Sunday Night Heat effect anything at all in a positive way? Cause if the RAW brand only has the one show to worry about it might help them out a bit.

[alvarez16]

That could possibly help, since they always book Sunday Night Heat with matches such as Triple H vs. Edge which takes away talent from RAW!

Thanks

[forlan]

I'd rather take on Adams suggestions tomorrow than try messing about by myself.

And may i say, 4 people yesterday and 5 today, i wont name name because im not ahrsh but pm'ing me asking for the data seriously pisses me off, DONT DO IT

[Megaman0]

Yeah I don't think Heat is that neccassary since it basically is a pre show segment of RAW...

[paulskln]

I'd rather take on Adams suggestions tomorrow than try messing about by myself.

And may i say, 4 people yesterday and 5 today, i wont name name because im not ahrsh but pm'ing me asking for the data seriously pisses me off, DONT DO IT


adam already said that 'B' shows like heat/velocity shouldnt be in the game as the game engine isnt designed for them to run properlly

[SHaynes23]

I agree with Heat being taken out, you have twenty minutes of Pre-Show to book before you're shows, and Heat is barely more than 20 minutes long nowadays, and it's just not right seeing the AI book Cena vs. Edge on Heat.

[MrKain]

lol. You should name names, Forlan, I want someone to bash again. :)

[cyberkitten01]

The way the AI makes the Brands equal has been quite entertaining. Triple H and JBL are main eventing ECW :D

[D16NJD16]

I think there should be an option added to the game, a simple A show, B show. I'm pretty sure it's been in before. Even if someone doesn't want to current Heat/Velocity shows, there were shows like Superstars and WCW Saturday Night that were significantly more importent then the current B shows.

[forlan]

In amongst all the crazy goings on I feel not enough love was shown for the return to the forum world of Tim Vickers, once a loyal servant of T-Zone, the good old days when Phil was a flea in his ear trying to convert him to the darkside (RaveX). That worm was not for turning and until his retirement he sat proudly alongside me at the top of T-Zone (TEW Zone as it was then known) mountain.

It is for that reason that i would like to open the ViVi memorial wing of this thread.

*Now thats going off topic...bitches haha*

[cyberkitten01]

I had no idea :) I remembered him as a prominent figure in the community, but my memory is so bad I didn't know who he was affiliated with

[Acenate Prophet]

Yo: I just want to give mad props to Adam for helping out the TEW community in this instance and of course to forlan and all you other contributors for the continued mod work. Not everybody who plays the game and mods like this posts on the boards but we do appreciate them.

[The Stallion]

Hey, everybody is talking about update 1.3, but for some reason I cant find it. What gives? Sorry to take this off topic. I really hope that the recomendations that Adam give you Forlan helps out a lot. Also Im sorry that I have not been able to test some more but I have been working my ASS off at work so I just dont have the time.

[Actarus]

Stallion, temporary patch 1.3 is in the tech support forum

[TCP1]

God bless you Viggo and your awesome Japanese data!

Wasn;t there a big who-har with Phil Parent and him accusing T-Zone (of which I was a lowly helper for about 2 weeks - we all gotta start somewhere) of theft?

[forlan]

something like that but Phil accusing anyone of anything after all his lies is ludicrous. I remember when you did like wwe bios then were gonna do tna or something but instead dissapeared for earth for a year or something

[MrCanada]

mind telling me what all this who-har is about Phil? These lies and such? I keep hearing about them and dont know the story and it makes me feel stupid and smell burnt toast.

[The Gaz]

If its not to much of a pain would someone mind sharing this story with me also as I always wonder what this was about.

[Consrvtve]

I know about 10% of the story but something about, he always claimed to work for a canadian wrestling company called FLI or something, and it had something to do with the Rougeaus or someone like that and it turned out that it was not true.

Don't take that for gospel though, like I said, thats just what I pieced together.

[tommytomlin]

His Wikipedia page was deleted (probably because he wrote it himself), but you can read the Google cache version of it here (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:0Di2IfZWLCAJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Parent+phil+parent+wikipedia).

Explains the whole thing, and.... yeah. Who writes their own Wiki?

[forlan]

Long story short he lied about his whole life, made up a wreslting promotion he worked for and all other nonsense. end of, now get back on topic

[MaxxHexx]

I do...for my novel...

[jimmy_shakerz]

Long story short he lied about his whole life, made up a wreslting promotion he worked for and all other nonsense. end of, now get back on topic

I am from Montreal and Jacques Rougeau really owns a wrestling "promotion" more like a school where he helds event once in a while but it's called Lutte International 2000

[Genadi]

I find it amazingthat people find such joy out of someone elses shame, who cares if Phil lied? He did it on a wrestling board :confused:

Build a bridge a people!

[Ransik]

I installed the new temp patch before running a test game on my way to work... by September NOAH is the only promotion left with any TV time at all, and so far 10 companies have gone out of business. What I don't get is TNA rose from International to Global... and WWE finally got to Gloabal... but no TV shows and PPV deals have expired and not been renewed.

I dunno... I'll wait until you tweak enough things and see if you feel like sending me the new data so I can run tests on it, cause it's hopeless on my end now. lol

[y2jbrock]

Whats the progress on this update?

[y2jbrock]

But i read a few threads back that theres a problem with the data and that it wasnt coming out....

[Consrvtve]

Were these problems (shows being cancelled left and right) happening in testing before the 1.3 patch? If not, maybe the only solution is to pray for an alternative patch which would undo the tinkering concerning how promotions rise and fall.

The data worked fine in 2005. What has changed as far as software programing and dynamics to make WWE lose its shows? How can the data be changed to match these dynamics?

[Genadi]

Were these problems (shows being cancelled left and right) happening in testing before the 1.3 patch? If not, maybe the only solution is to pray for an alternative patch which would undo the tinkering concerning how promotions rise and fall.

The data worked fine in 2005. What has changed as far as software programing and dynamics to make WWE lose its shows? How can the data be changed to match these dynamics?

:eek:

Read this thread from start to finish and you'll start to get an idea.

[D16NJD16]

Yeah come on dude, it's only 1,082 posts, don't be so lazy.

[y2jbrock]

exactly lol

[Adam Ryland]

First set of suggested changes

For the WWE, I'd drop the overness of Canda, UK and Europe to 60%. This will take you to a solid International level.

To make the roster pushes closer to reality, I'd make the following changes (this assumes that current main eventer JBL is being made inactive and so his spot needs filling too):

Benoit's style should be changed to Regular Wrestler
Finlay's popularity should be increased to the low 70s
CM Punk's should be increased to the mid 70s
The Boogeyman's should be increased to the mid 70s
Lance Cade's should be lowered to 68
Johnny Nitro's should be lowered to 74
RVD should be up to 78\79
Matt Hardy goes down to 75
Umaga goes up to 77
Lashley goes up to 79\80 (this one is probably slightly higher than reality, but if you want him to not drop the ECW world title immediately, it is required)

Those changes will sort out the main event and upper midcard of the roster.

The "B" TV shows should be removed, the game is not meant to support them.

Like your relationship file, the tag team file has completely lost its focus, and is based on "look how awesomely complete this list is!" not "does this help the game". The tag teams listed as "None" for promotion are for established tag teams who are likely to team together whenever they end up in the same promotion. That's their entire purpose - when the AI makes a new signing, it checks through that list to look for teams to make. On the very first page I can see Air Raid, AJ Styles and Air Paris, as a None team - clearly that shouldn't be there; it was a very short lived team to begin with, and no promoter is going to think "oh yeah, an Air Raid reunion, that is MONEY". See what I mean? So a lot of them need removing. You've also gone the other way, as I can see that Backseat Boys, a team that actually would be booked together, aren't listed as a None team. Finally, I'd drop things like the "2 Man Power Trip" - not only because Austin isn't active any more, but it was more of a storyline union than a real tag team. All those changes will cut the size of the file dramatically, making it better for the game and speeding up your loading times.

There is a whole heap of people on the WWE roster who should be removed, or at the very least seriously considered for removal (I have not included the people who have since left the company anyway):

Dave Lagana
Ed Koskey
Court Bauer
Marty Rubalcaba
Gene Okerlund
Darren Drozdoff
Brian Gerwitz
Pat Patterson
Lilian Garcia
Justin Roberts
Steve Austin
Mick Foley
Rebecca DiPietro
Howard Finkle
Steve Williams
Hulk Hogan

The writers should not even be in the database at all, as they are not workers - same goes for Drosdov as well.

Neither should ring announcers really, although if you choose to keep Lilian and co in, you should turn them into Personalities, not Announcers, as otherwise they are taking spots from real announcers.

Pat Patterson I was under the impression was now no longer with the promotion in an official capacity anyway, which is why he is on the list.

With people like Austin, Foley, Hogan, etc, I understand why you have them under contract, but my advise is to cut them loose to the free agent pool. I don't believe that's too far off reality, and it helps reduce the amount of people you have sitting around backstage doing nothing.

That's just the stuff I got from a 40 minute look at the database, I haven't even gotten to actually running any shows yet. I will do another post later tonight with my advice on how to improve other stuff, including the TV shows.

[y2jbrock]

great feedback adam.

[The-gamE]

i just chacked and k-fed shuld be in the game !!!
read here:
http://www.prowrestlingfans.com/index.php?id=viewArticle&articleID=11035

[Adam Ryland]

To follow up on the removal of Heat, there's an obvious reason why the WWE always loses at least one TV show - they start with four, whereas the AI only ever tries to keep three active shows at any point in time. I'm surprised none of the testers were aware of this, given that that's been the case since 2004. So I will repeat my advice that Heat needs to get removed.

The network \ TV set up for TNA and WWE looks fairly good other than that, the only one that definitely won't last is TNA's contract with RDS, as their level of Hardcore will not be permitted by a Mainstream network.

I have run some further tests on a database which has all the changes I have suggested so far in it, and it goes improve the WWE's performance a little. The issue that is left is again more conceptul than anything - the real life WWE's shows are pretty poor, and don't really live up to the level that the WWE is at in terms of size, so the simulation is fairly accurate in that respect. You really have two choices; artificially boost the WWE roster's popularity so that the promotion gets better ratings and stay at their current level, or keep them as they are (which IMO is at a realistic level) and accept that the WWE in reality is in something of a slide and this is being simulated correctly.

I have also taken a look at TNA for you, but my findings are not good - as good as I thought you'd set up the WWE stats, TNA has gone completely the opposite way and is really badly done. The key issue is that it seems that the promotion was designed by someone who loves TNA, and the roster was designed by someone who hates TNA, and that's left a huge disparity between where they are, and what they are capable of.

Looking at the promotion to begin with, the main issue is with the overness. My guess is that whoever designed it thought "well, they have TV shows all over the world so I'd better make them International" - this is a poor decision, as while they may have international television coverage, that does not mean they are an International sized promotion in TEW.

The first thing that needs changing is the UK and Europe. As it stands, TNA is not far behind the WWE, which is ludicrous - a short-lived, barely-watched TV show on an obscure network does not equate to over two decades of exposure that the WWE\F has had. Knock them down 30% and you're closer to the mark, and even that's generous.

Canada should also be reduced dramatically.

The American popularity is more debatable, but I think the current levels are far too high. I wouldn't have their average overness at more than 60%.

Those changes will take them down to Cult-about-to-hit-National, which is a realistic depiction of their real-life status.

Moving onto the roster, it's very easy to see why they currently struggle in your mod, and again I have to say that I'm surprised that none of the testers just applied logic to the situation. The WWE is struggling to maintain their size when most of their main eventers are averaging 80+ in popularity. TNA have been set to only be slightly smaller than the WWE, and you're having them try to survive with a main event scene where most people are in the 50s and 60s for popularity! This is the disparity I was talking about - on one hand you're portraying TNA as being almost as big as the WWE, and on the other you've given them a roster of people who would struggle to make it to Midcard level in the WWE. They can't both be true.

Fortunately, you have two obvious solutions, and just need to pick one. If you follow my advice on lowering the promotion's popularity then you don't really need to do a lot else - they have a roster that is already set up pretty well to handle that level of popularity. If you choose to ignore my advice on the size and keep them as International, then you need to follow-up on that by making the roster better. If you believe TNA are genuinely at 70%+ across the USA, then you'll need to shift most of the roster's popularity up by about 10-15% to match it.

The one thing to note is that if you do lower their size, you may need to do some work on their TV deals to match the change.

[The-gamE]

ladies and gentlemans...
the solution (i think) !!!!

[panix04]

:eek: wow, i really think that is a case of taking customer service to the next level!

I did some testing and here are some thing that do and don't affect wages:

Do:
Stat levels
overness

Don't:
service length
age
alternate roles (IE comentator, ref etc)

are there any other criteria you'd like me to test?

[HHUK]

Nice to see Adam taking an interest in this, I wouldn't say NWA:TNA are near WWE in terms of overness and alot of the wrestlers aren't either, as popularity is generally decided by the mainstream casual fans and not the internet wrestling fans.

NWA:TNA are the closest we have to WWE at the moment and their popularity never stops rising, it's almost sure that they'll be as big as WCW one day. They've not long started showing it on Bravo but I already know girls who watch it with genuine interest.

One thing I'm confused about with overness is... alot of WWE casual fans know who the Dudleys are, yet they don't know who AJ Styles is. Yet, in NWA:TNA, Styles is higher up the card and I'm guessing he would be given a higher overness? It's really tricky to get a balance.

[Blasphemywebleed]

One thing I'm confused about with overness is... alot of WWE casual fans know who the Dudleys are, yet they don't know who AJ Styles is. Yet, in NWA:TNA, Styles is higher up the card and I'm guessing he would be given a higher overness? It's really tricky to get a balance.


Yeah i was thinking about that the other day. I think you have to look at the overness of the worker in the current promotion they work for. If you had Dudleys overness set higher than AJ's then they would be more known in the gameworld but also above AJ in the roster which the latter wouldnt be true. I'm not actually sure how the stat work inter-promotion but if someone else does and could explain it my head could stop hurting for a little while :)

[TsuMirren]

Have to agree with the slashing of TNA's overness to the levels stated by Adam. The networks may then need tweaked, size for example...I believe someone made a few suggestions a few pages back now.

Admittedly, i've been concentrating on the UK stuff so hadn't looked at the US much aside from noticing that on two consecutive occasions the WWE have signed the exact same people...pretty much in the same order aswell.

I have my brother running an auto click sim for me at the moment, so will check the results when I get home...if he let's it past January 2008 I'll swing for him! Did notice one very funny fact...Gauntley booker of SWA, haha. DELETE HIM! DELETE! DELETE! DELETE!

[Harts4Life]

Yeah i was thinking about that the other day. I think you have to look at the overness of the worker in the current promotion they work for. If you had Dudleys overness set higher than AJ's then they would be more known in the gameworld but also above AJ in the roster which the latter wouldnt be true. I'm not actually sure how the stat work inter-promotion but if someone else does and could explain it my head could stop hurting for a little while :)

I don't know what the actual stats say, as I am not a tester, but one thing that people are forgetting about NWA:TNA is that the traditional card structure isn't followed all that strictly ... Lance Hoyt has main evented an Impact, ladies and gentlemen ... nothing against Lance, but he's definitely not along the same overness as Jeff Jarrett, Sting, Christian or even Abyss.

If the Dudleys are more over than AJ Styles, but are used in the midcard, that's the booking decision of TNA, not a reflection of overness.

Everyone who was even a smaller name in WWE should be more over than Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, or even Christopher Daniels, by virtue of what Adam refers to earlier, the sheer exposure factor. More people know who Spike Dudley is than who Homicide is, and Homicide's been trading the World Tag Team titles with Styles and Daniels most recently, while Spike's just been getting his butt kicked around the ring.

Your most over stars in TNA should be as follows (in alphabetical order):

BG James
Brother Devon
Brother Ray
Brother Runt
Christian Cage
Christy Hemme
Gail Kim
Jackie
Jim Mitchell (due to WCW/ECW fame)
Jeff Jarrett
Jim Cornette
Kevin Nash
Kip James
Kurt Angle (probably going to be your most over guy on the roster, at WWE Main Event levels)
Raven
Rhino
Ron Killings
Scott Steiner
Shane Douglas (see notes for Jim Mitchell)
Simon Diamond (see above)
Sting
Tomko

All of these guys were bigger names in bigger promotions at one time or another. All of them have reputations that are bigger than NWA:TNA, and frankly are best served using them to put over the other guys on the roster.

Please, please remember that just because they appear in the main event of Impact, this does not a Main Eventer make.

Whoever is finalizing the stats needs to view everyone, in every promotion, with an even mind. Put biases aside, and consider how well known they are in the area that you are setting them. Especially hometowns (Angle obviously should be more over in the Philadelphia area) and areas of regular employment (Christopher Daniels should be the most over in the Tri-State area and California due to his long service with ROH, and having started in California.) By taking a non-biased stance, the data will only end up as top-quality, instead of falling to the muck that other real-life data mods suffer.

[HugeRockStar760]

Interesting...Like I said, the output wasn't the fault of the game. Not only am I a lucha libre fan, but I'm a TNA fan and skeptic at the same time. It would've helped to include someone that could take an impartial look at the TNA roster to ensure it was playable.

[forlan]

I agree wholeheartedly myself on the TNA thing but anyone who followed the 2005 updates knows that millions of people cried TNA sould be more over. I'll gladly reduce them. And Harts4Life, no offence but your feedback is kind of redundant since right from the start it's been that way, ie people like Darin Corbin for example more over in the Tri-State, Mid West and Great Lakes areas and such, thats just common sense.

I'll take on board Adams suggestions for popularity changes as well as Tag Teams and such.

Only thing i've got to say is i hadn't actually started on the TNA or WWE overnesses yet thats why they kind of are all over the place.

Once again a huge thanks to Adam, not many other game developers would go into this much detail :)

[forlan]

:eek: wow, i really think that is a case of taking customer service to the next level!

I did some testing and here are some thing that do and don't affect wages:

Do:
Stat levels
overness

Don't:
service length
age
alternate roles (IE comentator, ref etc)

are there any other criteria you'd like me to test?

I don't understand that since Larry Sweeney is a big example, his stats arent superb except for Entertainment and he sn't exactly Mr. Over but he still has ridiculously high wages :s

[panix04]

i will take a look at him and see if anything stands out tha could be affecting it, maybe hes just a greedy sod!

[HugeRockStar760]

I agree wholeheartedly myself on the TNA thing but anyone who followed the 2005 updates knows that millions of people cried TNA sould be more over. I'll gladly reduce them. And Harts4Life, no offence but your feedback is kind of redundant since right from the start it's been that way, ie people like Darin Corbin for example more over in the Tri-State, Mid West and Great Lakes areas and such, thats just common sense.

I'll take on board Adams suggestions for popularity changes as well as Tag Teams and such.

Only thing i've got to say is i hadn't actually started on the TNA or WWE overnesses yet thats why they kind of are all over the place.

Once again a huge thanks to Adam, not many other game developers would go into this much detail :)

Oliver Copp from TNM goes in great detail as well.

As for the overness of WWE and TNA wrestlers, why don't you allocate that to more than one person? It seems arbitrary if one person is deciding it.

[forlan]

The whole problem that got TNA way too over is that too many people ar epro TNA over WWE these days because its the "cool" thing to do. I have little to no opinion on each so it's better. Plus the whole thing would be held up over me and whoever arguing over a minor couple of overness points for a person

[HugeRockStar760]

Why not have two people glancing over ratings, they make their adjustments but ultimately, it's you who has final say over whether the rating changes are accurate and kept. In management, you delegate responsibilities but always have final say.

Adam has provided a good framework on what types of wrestlers fall into certain rating categories. I could go through now and easily rate the WWE. TNA wouldn't be hard either since it is a smaller promotion with fewer wrestlers.

[panix04]

having taken a good look at mr sweeney i thought it might be the fact he has several contracts causing problems, but that didnt effect it, i also checked his overness which was very low indeed. I did notice he had very high entertainment skills, if you take them and drop them down to about 65% his wages plummet from 1900 to 600 - perhaps its because he's a comentator with high entertainment skills. Its a bit like, in football, trying to sign a striker with good finishing, whos good in the air, because he has high ratings in useful attributes you have to pay him more, atleast thats the way i see it!

[forlan]

But if i had final say, i could see it ending up something like this to be honest

Me: UMAGA should be 79 over
You: I think it should be 75 can we compromise
Me: 79 it is

[HugeRockStar760]

Fair enough. The WWE roster will be easy to sort out now though. I'm not quite sure if there would really be a debate over whether wrestler x is either a 78 or 77. There's no difference except 1 point.

[forlan]

Some people get very anal

[bjo313]

Sweeney's fee in real life $150 plus travel costs.

still a ways to go from $600 :P

[panix04]

those greyhound busse's have really upped there fee's of late! :D

[forlan]

Cornellverse money is not real life money, so that comment is irrelevant and no offence but workers don't like people spreading **** about how muc money they make or not.

[Krazibonez]

When will this be release?

[forlan]

You have GOT to be kidding me, anyone else care to ask a question without remotely even reading the last two pages to see whats going on?

[Goldenskillz]

I do have a simple question, maybe it has been mentioned and i have missed it but with all the trouble both TNA and WWE are having in this mod, how are the other companies handling it....the ROH's in america and the big japanese feds. Are they having the same problems as WWE and TNA or are they trotting along just fine.

[forlan]

Just to add, im sorting a few tna overnesses and then i'll email you the new file Simon to run some extensive checks, so stick around :p

[forlan]

I do have a simple question, maybe it has been mentioned and i have missed it but with all the trouble both TNA and WWE are having in this mod, how are the other companies handling it....the ROH's in america and the big japanese feds. Are they having the same problems as WWE and TNA or are they trotting along just fine.

ROH seem to run great as do most other indy promotions from what i see

[HugeRockStar760]

Most indy feds are probably going to work correctly because I would assume most have been set to cult and the workers are ranked accordingly. Whereas with the WWE and TNA, there are so many workers and other issues, it makes things more complicated.

I'd imagine if the WWE hadn't bought WCW and things were status quo, the promotions would be easier to figure out because the WWE wouldn't have so many workers and three brands to spread them across.

[forlan]

Most indies have not been set to cult that would be stupid, Regional and below they are

[HugeRockStar760]

Most indies have not been set to cult that would be stupid, Regional and below they are

That would make sense. But I would consider ROH at a cult level...But my definition of cult level is probably different than what matters, and that's the game's definition.

[forlan]

ROH is not at cult level by the games reckoning

[Harmor]

First of all, big kudos to Forlan for sticking to this mod despite the issues he went through, yet even bigger props to Adam Ryland for being absolutely unique in the world of game devs. Go to any forum for a commercial game (God knows I've been to many, being a geek and all) and try to find a guy who is so committed to the community - you won't find any. Unbelievable level of support Adam, and I am saying this without wanting to brown nose ya, it's just the darn truth.

Got nothing else to add obviously, but I felt I had to post this because I am genuinely amazed after reading those last few pages.

[HugeRockStar760]

ROH is not at cult level by the games reckoning

If I had the help file here, I could check the definition of cult promotion in TEW. But to me, ROH is above a regional promotion because of its DVD distribution and the word of mouth it receives. I don't know if it is fair to ROH to say it is no better than any of the many regional NWA promotions.

[forlan]

ROH is regional but i don't see anywhere i mentioned regional NWA promotions also being regional, most other indies are small or even local

[Goldenskillz]

ROH isnt cult in TEW terms i can see why that is, because in TEW terms TNA is cult, and although i prefer ROH i can say that TNA is much bigger than ROH. So whilst ROH is bigger than most indys i think Regional is the right choice to make.

[forlan]

ROH sits fine where it is, otherwise the AI would start running bigger arenas right off the bat and such

EDIT: May I add NO MORE ASKING TO TEST/PLAY/TAKE OR W/E THE DATA, the testers were chosen and no1 else is getting the data beta

[Adam Ryland]

If I can offer some advice, you should decide the size of ROH based on their roster size. If you can have them Regional (but bordering on Cult) without triggering mass firings, then that is the ideal situation in terms of match reality with the simulation. If you do trigger firings then you can knock them up to having just hit Cult, and that'll be almost as good.

[Ransik]

Yeah I'll be around for another few hours, popping back and forth between here, TV and the such. I did what Adam suggested in the data I have so I'm gonna run it for a couple weeks to see what it does. When you're ready you can send what you do my way and I can run it while I'm at work.

So far though I can tell you with Heat gone there are TONS more firings going on with WWE.

[forlan]

I've just emailed you the data after fiddling a bit with the tna overnesses and such, just do your testing etc and see what you get really simon.

As for ROH, it's tricky as at the overness level they are at the moment they run the right arenas and such and also don't seem to fire "too" many people, granted they fire some but every promotion seems to lol

[Ransik]

Okay, got it and setting it up now.

[Adam Ryland]

So far though I can tell you with Heat gone there are TONS more firings going on with WWE.

Those are two completely unrelated items, the number of TV shows has nothing to do with firings. There'll be an increase because (if you've followed my advice) the promotion is now one size smaller. If you remove the people I suggested, and the guys like Rodney Mack who have left now anyway, it begins to even itself out.

[forlan]

Well the data i've sent Simon has all that done so he should get better findings :)

[cyberkitten01]

It would've helped to include someone that could take an impartial look at the TNA roster to ensure it was playable.

Dammit Forlan! If this guy was on the testing team the game would be released by now! :p Thanks for reiterating what Adam's said though, Adam has been a knight in shining armour :D

[HugeRockStar760]

At the very least, the relationships and tag teams would've been scrutinized more than they were. I've always wondered why there was a glut of unnecessary and pointless data in there. It's been that way since EWR.

[D16NJD16]

Do brands ever get dropped on their own in the game or are they stuck that way forever?

^^^ Just wondering if deleting the ECW brand is worth starting a game over for.

[cyberkitten01]

As for ROH, it's tricky as at the overness level they are at the moment they run the right arenas and such and also don't seem to fire "too" many people, granted they fire some but every promotion seems to lol

Maybe an idea to dump some of the students and guys who haven't appeared at shows in a while, but as you said it's a pretty universal thing with the Indys considering even the micro Indys have a large talent base, they just might not use every guy in that one night

[forlan]

Guys who haven't appeared ina while get dumped anyways lol

D16NJD16 why have you deleted ECW Brand, i have no intention to with this data

[D16NJD16]

Guys who haven't appeared ina while get dumped anyways lol

D16NJD16 why have you deleted ECW Brand, i have no intention to with this data

Well I didn't delete it yet, I was wondering if brands are permenant, and I also don't feel like having it around if like everyone said, it gets treated as an equal brand, even if it has unknown wrestlers, the game moves huge stars there. It's my opinion the WWE ECW Brand will be history in months anyway.

[HugeRockStar760]

Well I didn't delete it yet, I was wondering if brands are permenant, and I also don't feel like having it around if like everyone said, it gets treated as an equal brand, even if it has unknown wrestlers, the game moves huge stars there. It's my opinion the WWE ECW Brand will be history in months anyway.

Vince is stubborn and he has a longterm deal with Sci-Fi that is getting them decent if not great ratings considering the network and timeslot they're in. It's not going anywhere.

[forlan]

I've seen the AI drop the brand split a few times

[D16NJD16]

Vince is stubborn and he has a longterm deal with Sci-Fi that is getting them decent if not great ratings considering the network and timeslot they're in. It's not going anywhere.

Sure it will. The ratings are dropping, and there's no interest in the brand from fans or those in WWE. The Sci-Fi contract is the ONLY reason it's still on, and that deal is not for forever, and there are things called buyouts. Their attempt at a PPV was also a total failure. So why would it be so outlandish to assume it is going by the wayside in due time?

[D16NJD16]

I've seen the AI drop the brand split a few times

Alright thanks that's what I needed to know, how long into the game was it?

[raynefall007]

It's tough to run a brand with 5 wrestlers on your roster.

I guess filling out your roster web page with twenty guys and using five of them works, in theory.

[kevel33]

Sure it will. The ratings are dropping, and there's no interest in the brand from fans or those in WWE. The Sci-Fi contract is the ONLY reason it's still on, and that deal is not for forever, and there are things called buyouts. Their attempt at a PPV was also a total failure. So why would it be so outlandish to assume it is going by the wayside in due time?

I wouldn't even waste time responding to HugeRockStar760 dude, he's a troll and he just says things to disagee with and annoy people. Read this very thread for examples.

[forlan]

The multiple pm's i get from the guy too are in a similar vein

[ACCBiggz]

I agree with the ECW thing however. Not for the same reasons. They have nowhere else to put the talent on a stage, and ECW has been a decently slow build. It'll go on at least until the summer and perhaps until 08 at least. Having Show and others leave didn't exactly help and they can't throw Punk to the top. Lashley wasn't a top draw to begin with, but he is the closest thing that brand has. ECW isn't going anywhere for at least 6-12 months, I would never try to prognosticate anything long term in professional wrestling. Something unexpected always happens.

[TsuMirren]

GAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! He couldn't even work the auto-clicker... "I forgot to start it"

[raynefall007]

True.

However, when you have as much talent on contract as the WWE does, you'd think they could find it in their dead little brains to move some over to ECW to actually, you know, have them work and maybe - just maybe - have the opportunity to get over.

I mean, seriously. They should just unify both the tag titles and move it over to ECW and rebuild a tag division there. They have so much else going on the other shows that the ECW brand could actually USE the tag division to give it something else.

[Ransik]

Even if the game drops the brands it still has to run the ECW show... so unless a show gets dropped by all the stations it's on... it's not going anywhere.

[forlan]

After taking a long look at the tag team section i've managed to cut it to 724 teams. which is 300 roughly cut

[jimmy_shakerz]

How is the alter-ego file ??

[forlan]

Full to the brim of nothingness

[HugeRockStar760]

I wouldn't even waste time responding to HugeRockStar760 dude, he's a troll and he just says things to disagee with and annoy people. Read this very thread for examples.

Read through my posts and you see they pertain to the mod. If you're going to call me a troll, you might as well be unbiased and call everyone in this thread a troll.

Not to mention, your post right now is more troll worthy than anything I've seen. I posted a reply to the poster's opinion about ECW not being in the mod and I replied with my opinion on why the brand should remain. Yet you reply with something out of left field that was uncalled for.

Lead by example. Stick to the topic of the thread.

As for ECW, you're missing the entire point. ECW will remain around as long as Sci-Fi is happy with the ratings. For the timeslot, it is getting excellent ratings. Just because you perceive a lack of quality in the product, that doesn't mean anything. All NBC Universal cares about is ratings like any other conglomerate.

The pay per view may have been bad, but people bought the pay per view and when you multiply that by the cost of the pay per view to the viewer, it wasn't a failure. They run few pay per views. The ECW merchandise and DVDs continue to be best sellers. I don't see the incentive for Vince to end ECW. Has he ended Smackdown yet when every else was clamoring for the end of the brand extension? No. Like I said, he's stubborn and he has every right to be.

[Horizon]

Great work forlan, Ransik, Adam, and everyone else who is helping with getting this mod playable & out there. Really good stuff.

[MrKain]

Heh, I'm starting to get antsy again, cause I've been staring at the little icon to play TEW, but I keep remembering it's still the cornell-verse, and I just can't get into it. I'll play like two shows and then turn it off.

Does anyone have a time machine, please?

[Johnny Fenoli]

Full to the brim of nothingness

What would you put in there? People who aren't in the WWE who if they came back would go by this name IE Goldust, Dudley Boys, etc.

and maybe make some names for guys who if they left the WWE IE Mark Calloway, Adam Copeland, etc.


Anything else to use it for that I dont know?

[forlan]

Nope, your spot on

[Ransik]

Im in the last week of March right now and so far things seem to be going alright. TNA addedf a new show on Spike to air at midnight on Saturdays, but the shows are sinking in ratings really quickly for both WWE and TNA. I'll let it run while I'm at work, hopefully this time all the shows are still around by summertime.

Edit: Oop.... nevermind, WWE just dropped to Cult and released about 20 wrestlers.

[forlan]

Been deleting some "Fluff" relationships and am down to 1722 from 2048 which by my reckoning (might not be 100% accurate) is around a 16% reduction in the relationships file, but i cant see no more to cut in honesty as i was pretty vigilant

[Ransik]

You might want to tweak some of the belts. I've seen Rated RKO defend the Tag Titles against Maria and Michelle McCool and I just barely saw Yang defend the Cruiserweight against Mickie.

[forlan]

There is no way to tweak them other than putting men only which is a lie as they arent, thats the AI booking

[forlan]

Just took the time to add Colby Corino to the new workers section since among all his people Fenoli still managed to miss him out and hes already going well in school wrestling and i made a nice backstory for his bio about how Corino trained him then he further trained in Japan under OHtani, pity he wont appear til 2015 :p

[Ransik]

The end of the first week in April... ECW and Smackdown are about to be cancelled by all networks they air on.

Very puzzling... there's just no way to keep the WWE afloat.

[Consrvtve]

cancel the brand extensions? Would that give WWE enough star power to be global or international? Us players can just make up the seperations in our mind and if needed edit people's morale once a game week.

[Ransik]

I don't think it would make a difference because there would still be three shows for the AI to run.

What I don't get is why there will be a B+ match in the undercard and a C- match in the Main Event. We'll see Orton vs. Flair in the first hour... second match... and in the Main Event Batista beating Viscera.

Whoo hoo. lol

[raynefall007]

I don't think cancelling the brand extension would be a good idea.

Honestly, the brand extension is working in ratings and the like anyway, so cancelling it would be dumb. However, if the AI decides to cancel it due to the shows getting dropped, then so be it.

I see it as a pretty realistic take on what *could* happen, if things don't change for the WWE.

[Consrvtve]

I'm just thinking outloud about what could make the networks see the WWE as viable. It's admittedly selfish because I only play as WWE so I'm not concerned about the AI being stupid in booking, I'll be doing those shows myself. I just don't want USA and CW kicking me to the curb because they have some false expectations.

[raynefall007]

I assume that the problem with it staying afloat (and from the sounds of the matches that are taking place) is in the booking and not because it's impossible.

The AI is probably trying to book similar wrestling styles vs. similar overness ratings and therefore causing the clash when it comes to match ratings.

[Consrvtve]

So there's a chance that with human players not booking oh...Val Venis vs Viscera in a bra and panties match in the main event of Raw 3 weeks in a row that the networks may keep the show.

[forlan]

Yeah its definately more related to how the AI books it

[raynefall007]

Val Venis vs. Viscera in a bra and panties match for 3 weeks in a row = SOILED GLOD~111!

[The-gamE]

so once again we go back to understand that the bug is in the game
and not in the mod...
but I think that if you make the changes adam recommended (all the changes)
the bug factor will be reduced to a tolerable level...
AI booking bad matches is a game bug and not a mod glitch (and k-fed should be in the game)

[Jaded]

AI booking bad matches is a game bug and not a mod glitch (and k-fed should be in the game)

Good point game, in real life, there's NEVER been any bad matches booked by a wrestling promoter, has there?

[raynefall007]

AI booking bad matches is not a game bug, it's simply following the logic that if you put two workers with similar styles in the ring, that they will have a better match than two wrestlers with opposing styles (such as a technical wrestler vs. a garbage wrestler).

The WWE having a totally off-balance roster, in terms of in-ring talent, along with the fact that they have probably set it up with match styles such as the real WWE (like, the typical match is 5 minutes long) would mean that the matches suck, in general.

Then again, turn on RAW, ECW or Smackdown! and tell me that half of the matches on the shows don't suck for that very reason.

Most all wrestling promotions are guilty of this, and it would be especially aimed at the WWE because a majority of their main eventers anymore can't mesh matches together well on the simple basis that they don't have complimentary styles.

[forlan]

"The Emo Warrior" Jimmy Jacobs was once best known for being the "Huss Man" and thinking he was The Berzerker. Oh how times of changed, now Jimmy can be regularly seen living out his Emo persona by drinking Vodka and Cranberry in the park whilst pining over the one he loves Lacey. Inside of the ring he has taken on a much more nasty streak and recently attempted to break BJ Whitmers ankle with a chair. Teams in MTV Wrestling Society X with Tyler Black as "Do it For Her" the most Emo team on TV.

[The-gamE]

if thats not a bug than i guess i was freaking wrong (can you say freaking ??)

:D :D :D

[Ignition]

Keep up the good work forlan. Just thought I'd let you know that I'm looking forward to playing with the data.

Kudos to Adam for all the help, seriously Adam, you're customer service is amazing.

[djthefunkchris]

Yeah, ditto....

My interest went from neenor/neenor (last week sometime) to very interested in the last few days. It's very eye opening as well. Certain details of this thread has information that could be used over and over again by various other's.

Funny, but if nothing happened wrong, I wouldn't have learned nothing from it.

PS: For those that obviously want, or wanted to be apart of this mod.. and I mean the one's that seriously wanted to do work, there is a ton of information in here to help with any future projects you might want to do, or be a part of. Take it for what it's worth, but it's like you were involved anyways.

[tommytomlin]

You sure do like your commas, dj.

[Genadi]

Sure it will. The ratings are dropping, and there's no interest in the brand from fans or those in WWE. The Sci-Fi contract is the ONLY reason it's still on, and that deal is not for forever, and there are things called buyouts. Their attempt at a PPV was also a total failure. So why would it be so outlandish to assume it is going by the wayside in due time?

I agree totally, I can remember an '05 mod where someone put ECW as a child promotion of WWE, you could set Shane OMac as owner or something ? You would think that would help out WWE quality a great deal.

[Ransik]

The only thing I think is weird about the AI booking and maybe something Adam could elaborate on is why the opening match of shows will feature Main Eventers... but the Main Event will feature a top guy and a complete jobber. All I'm seeing in WWE Shows are mixes of Rated RKO vs DX opening the shows and Cena or Batista fighting jobbers in the Main Event. TNA isn't so bad when it comes to that but it definitely keeps the companies from maintaining popularity.

[Johnny Fenoli]

The only thing I think is weird about the AI booking and maybe something Adam could elaborate on is why the opening match of shows will feature Main Eventers... but the Main Event will feature a top guy and a complete jobber. All I'm seeing in WWE Shows are mixes of Rated RKO vs DX opening the shows and Cena or Batista fighting jobbers in the Main Event. TNA isn't so bad when it comes to that but it definitely keeps the companies from maintaining popularity.

That's weird...

Not related to TZone at all, but while messing with the 1RC data that me and carlito where working on, I never seen that problem.

Could it have something to do with Vince's business prefrence and product?

[djthefunkchris]

That is weird Ransik. I know there is something about grabbing the attention right away, then ending with a bang, while having filler in other area's, but still... You would think maybe Cena and some jobber would be first, then the DX vs. RKO Thing for the main event.

I guess it would depend on the overness as well... RKO isn't all Main event material, and I don't know what you have DX as, but they probably should be, if they aren't. Cena or Batista is definately ME, so I know why they are booked at the end, but still, they shouldn't be with a jobber.

Are they rating alot worse then the opener?

[kevel33]

With everyones help, I have faith that maybe well actually get a playable real world mod by TEW 08!

[Genadi]

If anything it's the AI being smart, what it sounds like (I stress sounds like, I haven't seen the data in question) is apart from main eventers no one esle is capable of an above average match. It's important to put on at least a good opener so what the AI is doing is finding a good opening match, it may be that the only good opener it can get is out of two main eventers. Still you'll often see upper card workers in opening matches, like in reality they are usually a squash though. For example.... Edge def. Eugene

[The-gamE]

if forlan released a beta version to all of us we could find or/and suggest a solution i mean we keap on reading the posts but we can only guess...

dont take this the wrong way... i know that we need to be patient...
and i am not trying to get the data and run i just think that a few more (of the loyal readers of the thread) can help out

or another offer: forlan should continue the work on whats left...
while the rest of the testers search for the solution (just a time saver !!!)

not a jerk just a thinker

[cyberkitten01]

or another offer: forlan should continue the work on whats left...
while the rest of the testers search for the solution (just a time saver !!!)

Isn't that what me and the other testers have been doing already?

[The-gamE]

you and the other tester are searching for the solution but also forlan (instead he can continue the rest of the work)

[Adam Ryland]

The only thing I think is weird about the AI booking and maybe something Adam could elaborate on is why the opening match of shows will feature Main Eventers... but the Main Event will feature a top guy and a complete jobber. All I'm seeing in WWE Shows are mixes of Rated RKO vs DX opening the shows and Cena or Batista fighting jobbers in the Main Event. TNA isn't so bad when it comes to that but it definitely keeps the companies from maintaining popularity.

The opening will have main eventers in it if that's the only people left who they can book.

As for your comment about Batista fighting "jobbers", in your other post you used the example of Viscera - well, he was an Upper Midcarder by the end of week 1 in the last set of data I was sent, so you need to check whether your "jobber" is in your head, or in the game. If I can make a suggestion to improve your testing, you don't seem to actually check people's pushes - if you had, you would have spotted the problem with the WWE's overcrowded main event and TNA's popularity disparity before I ever needed to be involved - which is a huge mistake.

[HugeRockStar760]

if forlan released a beta version to all of us we could find or/and suggest a solution i mean we keap on reading the posts but we can only guess...

dont take this the wrong way... i know that we need to be patient...
and i am not trying to get the data and run i just think that a few more (of the loyal readers of the thread) can help out

or another offer: forlan should continue the work on whats left...
while the rest of the testers search for the solution (just a time saver !!!)

not a jerk just a thinker

Your first point makes perfect sense but it's been brought up before and rejected for no good reason. A public beta would allow for more input and opinions so we could've avoided Adam pointing out the obvious flaws (unnecessary tag teams, unnecessary relationships, under/overrating workers based on personal bias, etc)

You're not a jerk either. Thinking and cooperation is just not acceptable with this unfortunately.

What I suggest to you is to download a conversion Mod from bobinc.net and go from there.

[forlan]

no one has ever mentioned under/over rating on personal bias, your just sitll bitter like in the pm's you send begging to get the data

[MrKain]

SWEET! A NAME CAME OUT!

Forlan, you're my hero. Why? Cause now I can go on a tirade!

------------------

Intro:

So, there's this guy who is being ridiculously kind enough to make a mod in his spare time. For free. It's a modification for this wrestling game I play, and in reality will make it better for me to play. So I personally think the guy rules. Recently he's gotten to the point of testing it, and being that I'm a fairly new poster at the forums, I figured I didn't deserve to be a part of the beta test, and didn't apply.

So now I'm a little sad because I'm still sitting on the game waiting to play. But that's ok.


Body:

So now they're talking about the testing in the forum, and we're having the time of our lives ruining the topic each day and turning the test forum into our own personal playground. And it's fun. But there's this douchebag that has been annoying the guy who is making the mod.

I fear that the dude will never finish it because the douchebag keeps annoying him.

I hope that douchebag isn't me.


END:

Oh, wait. It isn't. It's HugeRockStar760. A guy who couldn't even win his name outright and got the "760" version as a consolation prize. Congratulations, you're a loser!

[HugeRockStar760]

no one has ever mentioned under/over rating on personal bias, your just sitll bitter like in the pm's you send begging to get the data

Considering I have the PM's saved, I'd gladly post them. No begging, just wanting to contribute to a project that obviously needs someone that knows what they are doing.

Enough of the arrogance. As has been proven, you have no room to be anymore.

The ratings were on personal bias. That is obvious. Just because someone thinks Test is awful and is on steroids doesn't mean his overness shouldn't be at a level to reflect where is truly ranked in ECW currently.

The tag teams and personal relationships were obviously never glanced over because it appears to be nothing more than a conversion from the past mods that had the same problem of numerous, unimportant relationships and tag teams that never should've been added.

[Goldenskillz]

Seriously how is this bitching and moaning helping anyone, even if HRS is trying to help hes got to realise its just doing the opposite. Whether thats his intentions or not i dont know but cant we all just realise...were on a forum, stop whining (Everyone) and let the mod get done.

Its getting back on track again now thanks to the help from Adam the last thing anyone who wants to play the mod wants is for it to get sidetracked all over again.

[Blasphemywebleed]

Seriously how is this bitching and moaning helping anyone, even if HRS is trying to help hes got to realise its just doing the opposite. Whether thats his intentions or not i dont know but cant we all just realise...were on a forum, stop whining (Everyone) and let the mod get done.

Its getting back on track again now thanks to the help from Adam the last thing anyone who wants to play the mod wants is for it to get sidetracked all over again.


Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Ransik]

I see Adam, dunno if forlan wants to change the overness of those guys or not, but I see what you mean.

Rockstar... all you've done all week is complain about how it's not a public beta test. Just please stop already, it's not going to be a public beta test no matter how much you try to make it sound like forlan is being a jerk for not releasing it to everyone because its not finished. We've already explained why it's not a public beta test.

[HugeRockStar760]

Seriously how is this bitching and moaning helping anyone, even if HRS is trying to help hes got to realise its just doing the opposite. Wether thats his intentions or not i dont know but cant we all just realise...were on a forum, stop whining (Everyone) and let the mod get done.

Its getting back on track again now thanks to the help from Adam the last thing anyone who wants to play the mod wants is for it to get sidetracked all over again.

It's not whining. I wonder if anyone even has a real job. Constructive criticism is apart of working. So is teamwork. From the start, this has been a closedminded process. I've never seen a group of people who take things so harshly when someone politely asks them to help, or when you offer valid opinions.

I'm perfectly fine with re-doing a conversion mod I downloaded from bobinc.net. So to say I'm "begging" isn't reality. There's other options than T-Zone.

[Ransik]

You are whinnig and insulting us, it's a wonder no one has warned you for anything yet. forlan has stated numerous times the reason the data isn't done yet is because he had exams which are much more important than T-Zone. I work... just because my hours are slashed by 66% doesn't mean I don't have a job.

You are not being polite... you asked forlan to release it to the public and when he refused you asked that he send it to you... and when he refused you started coming in the thread several times a day to insult the work we're all doing because you're not part of it. If there are more options than T-Zone... find them and play them. If you want to make your own mod, stop sayin you're going to do it and do it.

[Adam Ryland]

HugeRockStar760, as you've established in your post that the T-Zone team do not want your help, for whatever reason, I would suggest that both parties would be happier if you were to no longer contribute to this thread. It benefits T-Zone as they don't want your input, and it benefits you as you'll not be wasting your time giving opinions that are not wanted.

As a neutral party, that sounds like a fair plan to me. Unless anyone has any disagreements, please can both sides implement it from this post onwards.

[Blasphemywebleed]

It's not whining. I wonder if anyone even has a real job. Constructive criticism is apart of working. So is teamwork. From the start, this has been a closedminded process. I've never seen a group of people who take things so harshly when someone politely asks them to help, or when you offer valid opinions.

I'm perfectly fine with re-doing a conversion mod I downloaded from bobinc.net. So to say I'm "begging" isn't reality. There's other options than T-Zone.

I have a real job, im a sales manager for a small distribution company. And i take Forlans side in this completely, he has his team the same as i have my sales team, he has his customers (forum users) as well as my sales team has our customers. Now my sales team always have new projects to take on, as does Forlan (T-Zone) if my customers phoned me up asking to know details of my projects before they are ready then I would tell them where to go. Your point is not a valid one as you are nothing but a customer, you dont have any creative input to his project what so ever you are just a consumer. You have your right to express feedback, but it is forlans project and he is responsible for all aspects, including his team and release dates.

[HugeRockStar760]

HugeRockStar760, as you've established in your post that the T-Zone team do not want your help, for whatever reason, I would suggest that both parties would be happier if you were to no longer contribute to this thread. It benefits T-Zone as they don't want your input, and it benefits you as you'll not be wasting your time giving opinions that are not wanted.

As a neutral party, that sounds like a fair plan to me. Unless anyone has any disagreements, please can both sides implement it from this post onwards.

It's fine with me Adam. But please note, despite what the previous poster said, I've never used insults. I've never called anyone a "retard" like a certain someone said to another poster for no good reason. Just keep that in perspective people.

Have fun. I'll be continuing to revise a real world mod that will soon be opened to the public and free of frivilous promotions and other fringe concepts.

[Blasphemywebleed]

Have fun. I'll be continuing to revise a real world mod that will soon be opened to the public and free of frivilous promotions and other fringe concepts.

And we will be playing T-Zone :D

[MrKain]

As a neutral party, that sounds like a fair plan to me. Unless anyone has any disagreements, please can both sides implement it from this post onwards.

Awww. Fun ruined.

But it's good for the community. So I guess Adam has the right idea. Darn him and those good ideas.

Wait.

Then we wouldn't have TEW.

Hmmmmm....

[forlan]

Just a note, maybe you should start from scratch because using FORC or T-Zone conversion isn't exactly your own mod.
Thats all i'll say on the matter, need to order a new mouse and a new DVD Drive

[Ransik]

It's fine with me Adam. But please note, despite what the previous poster said, I've never used insults. I've never called anyone a "retard" like a certain someone said to another poster for no good reason. Just keep that in perspective people.

Have fun. I'll be continuing to revise a real world mod that will soon be opened to the public and free of frivilous promotions and other fringe concepts.

Sucking up will get you nowhere... we all know what you've been saying. Insulting our work integrity both in the mod and real life, begging for the file, insulting us because we won't release it to you. You have a serious ego problem in believing nothing you say or do is wrong in any sense. If there were any way possible to release T-Zone so you couldn't download it, it would serve you right for the attitude you've displayed for everyone.

[Goldenskillz]

Let it go now guys, Adam has asked him to stop and he has agreed....its Game over man, Game over. Please oh please can we just concentrate on T-Zone now. Thats why i visit this thread not for the arguing.

[forlan]

I visit it for the free Club biscuits.

Anyways, work has stalled today since my mouse broke and i also need a new dvd writer

[Goldenskillz]

I visit it for the free Club biscuits.


There just an added bonus for you guys.

[TCP1]

I don't mind having a look at the data for you Forlan?

I know we used to 'compete' if that's even the right term, but I'm sure I can spare an hour or 2 for a mate.

If not, good luck anyway.

[Adam Ryland]

Sucking up will get you nowhere... we all know what you've been saying. Insulting our work integrity both in the mod and real life, begging for the file, insulting us because we won't release it to you. You have a serious ego problem in believing nothing you say or do is wrong in any sense. If there were any way possible to release T-Zone so you couldn't download it, it would serve you right for the attitude you've displayed for everyone.

Look, I've been polite so far, but one more post like this and the person doing it gets an official warning. The situation has been resolved, posting stuff like that just so you can have the last word just starts the whole cycle back up. The argument has ended, let it lie.

[pete]

bump

[Goldenskillz]

On the subject of T-Zone what angles and storys are coming with it ? Is it just the basic set that comes with the actual game or will there be loads conversed over from 05 mods. If this has been mentioned before sorry cuz i must have missed it.

[cyberkitten01]

Unless anyone has any disagreements, please can both sides implement it from this post onwards.

Have fun

Thank God that's over. If anyone's interested in talking about T-Zone, playtesting (my job) is going well with the latest version of data

[Megaman0]

Never mind I didn't see the thread was a page further...

[mistaken]

Anyways, work has stalled today since my mouse broke and i also need a new dvd writer


I get the mouse part of stalling out the process.

but the dvd burner? just asking


Thank you for all of the hard work.

[forlan]

It was an interesting tidbit XD

[forlan]

Right....someone once said they were making BCW, whoeveer you are sorry for forgetting who you are but did you ever/do you ever plan on doing it.

Also i sent an arenas list to ubernoob when he offered to help and he said he was nearly done but now has dissapeared for earth :s

Also with the angles/storylines being directly over from 05 they are still just a mishmash of different ones thrown together but i'd like someone to totally revamp angles and storylines. Latenitescw is having a look but he doesn't have "that" much time so any offeres appreciated.

[Blasphemywebleed]

Right....someone once said they were making BCW, whoeveer you are sorry for forgetting who you are but did you ever/do you ever plan on doing it.

That would be me sir, i've done the product and stuff for BCW but not the roster, i can do it at the weekend, i think flamebrain was going to give me a hand, i'll pm him so we dont cross wires and do the same thing twice.

[mrdorf]

This must be the most eagerly anticipated mod going. I've been following the posts since forlan announced he was making it. Due to the amount of 'debates' and what not, it seems as if forlan's mods are extremely good. I myself can't wait but have to realise that I'm just going to have to be patient. I'd rather it was close to perfection than full of holes. Image Adam released tew 2007 before it was ready even though he may have had a deadline to meet everybody who purchased it would be pretty pissed off. This has been mentioned before but it's his mod and we're not paying for it so he can do what he likes and put in as many promotions as he wants.

Good luck Forlan and keep up the good work!

[forlan]

Thanks Blasphemy, I've also sent an offer out to that Stevie F'N somebody or whatever his name is, about him messing with the angles and storylines stuff, i await his reply.

[Stevie F'n Swing]

Stevie F'n Whatshisface has replied.

[forlan]

Stevie has agreed to be the T-Zone Angles and Storylines guy.

He is now entitles to one club biscuit per annum

[jbergey_2005]

EDIT:Im glad Adam stopped this I didnt read far enough nothing to see here

[Johnny Fenoli]

Stevie has agreed to be the T-Zone Angles and Storylines guy.

He is now entitles to one club biscuit per annum

Do I get a biscuit at all for the new workers and their pics?

Come on, a brutha's hungry over here...


Johnny "Currently eating ice" Fenoli

[TsuMirren]

There's a latest version of data?

[forlan]

Did you not get the email :s, ill send you the latest version again.

[The-gamE]

any progress in testing ??
did adam recommendations worked ?

[cyberkitten01]

Well WWE don't drop nearly as many people.. Their shows still kinda suck, but they seem to be managing a lot better. I was curious to see how WWE would manage on their own, so I set several TNA guys like AJ, Team 3D, VKM, Christian and Sting to be loyal so they could continue to work elsewhere but not get snapped up by WWE. Guys who've been working in TNA forever like Christopher Daniels and Chris Sabin (who haven't been there since day 1.. but you know what I mean) I left as normal since they may one day sign to WWE for the big money. So far they haven't been signed though which is niiice

Although there are always big firings, the main talent seems to stay in each fed (aside from Super Dragon who always becomes unemployed! :eek: ) and although I haven't got far into my current play-test game, promotions seem to be coping, but Ransik can tell you more about that side

[forlan]

Youd understand that that the AI is perfectly correct if you saw SupDrag these days, hes much much fatter, Ronin fat i dare say

[TsuMirren]

Cheers for the data, still prefer my game world %'s though...at least the differ. :)

Made a few quick changes and will look at it properly tomorrow night.

[cyberkitten01]

Youd understand that that the AI is perfectly correct if you saw SupDrag these days, hes much much fatter, Ronin fat i dare say

Noooooooo! I'll remain happily in 2005 then thanks. I always thought he was bordering on chubby

[MrKain]

Heh...Super Dragon becomes unemployed a lot in real life, too. He hates promoting himself, and hates the fans even more so. And it's not even the "heel" thing... he just does.

I love that about him, though. And, of course, The Curbstomp. If it weren't for the fact that so many people use it now, that's a freakin' great move.

[ACCBiggz]

[/quote]If it weren't for the fact that so many people use it now, that's a freakin' great move.[/quote]
How does having many people doing it effect how good the move is? DDT's are still some of my favorites, certain variations of suplexes are still awesome. :P

Super Dragon looked at me in his ROH Dayton debut last year when I shouted something about PWG while he beat the crap out of Ace Steel, he looked up, then went back to beating him. Of course if I could have seen through his mask I could have seen either him smirk at that or him cursing me. Could have been either.

[forlan]

Right, random question to TNA fans as i'm not one and things like this are one of umpteen reasons why.

Is there some sort of gay angle goin on between Borash and Eric Young as i watched a couple vids on the site and the pair of them buying condoms together etc :s

Anyone shed some light?

[Benneto]

Right, random question to TNA fans as i'm not one and things like this are one of umpteen reasons why.

Is there some sort of gay angle goin on between Borash and Eric Young as i watched a couple vids on the site and the pair of them buying condoms together etc :s

Anyone shed some light?


also what was the thing sting had to say about abyss's past???

aint watched tna in about 4 month

[forlan]

Abyss shot his dad 3 times and put him in a coma and Sting is "cleansing his soul" i thought it was TNA not Russos Christian promotion

[Actarus]

http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com

They have good recaps of the various wrestling shows, so you could read up on TNA's latest shenanigans, such as the secret origin of Abyss! And no, I don't work for them.

As for Eric Young / Borash, it's hard to tell, but the previous week Eric Young asked for Borash's help in obtaining condoms. They seem to be doing a virgin angle, where Ms. Brooks will, uh...devirginize Mr. Young. Or someting like that, at least I think that's where they're going. TNA's storylines have been convoluted and strange lately. (Thank you Vince!)

[tommytomlin]

Right, random question to TNA fans as i'm not one and things like this are one of umpteen reasons why.

Is there some sort of gay angle goin on between Borash and Eric Young as i watched a couple vids on the site and the pair of them buying condoms together etc :s

Anyone shed some light?

Haha

No, Eric Young is being seduced by Traci. He gets Borash and others to help him out.

[forlan]

It's just Borash looks so gay anyways lol, guess he hanging arund with Bill Behrens too much and we all know what Bill's like

[Rams]

http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com

They have good recaps of the various wrestling shows, so you could read up on TNA's latest shenanigans, such as the secret origin of Abyss! And no, I don't work for them.

As for Eric Young / Borash, it's hard to tell, but the previous week Eric Young asked for Borash's help in obtaining condoms. They seem to be doing a virgin angle, where Ms. Brooks will, uh...devirginize Mr. Young. Or someting like that, at least I think that's where they're going. TNA's storylines have been convoluted and strange lately. (Thank you Vince!)

That is what I feared happening when Vince became the Head Booker. He is a creative guy but needs a filter. The handling of Kurt Angle is a glaring example of how important it is to have a knowledgeable individual reviewing Vince's ideas.

Speaking of Kurt Angle does anyone have a clue what his persona or alignment is supposed to be? One week he acts like a top heel the next a face. You can't even classify him as a tweener.

[foolinc]

That is what I feared happening when Vince became the Head Booker. He is a creative guy but needs a filter. The handling of Kurt Angle is a glaring example of how important it is to have a knowledgeable individual reviewing Vince's ideas.

Speaking of Kurt Angle does anyone have a clue what his persona or alignment is supposed to be? One week he acts like a top heel the next a face. You can't even classify him as a tweener.

He's a face with a Bad Ass or Loose Cannon gimmick (I guess a Leg. Athlete gimmick works too).

[raynefall007]

He's a real athlete with a Bi-Polar/Schizophrenic gimmick.

[The Stallion]

Hey forlan, could you send me along the new version of the data? I will actually have some time this weekend to playtest.

[forlan]

Sure ill send it over

[D16NJD16]

Speaking of Kurt Angle does anyone have a clue what his persona or alignment is supposed to be? One week he acts like a top heel the next a face. You can't even classify him as a tweener.

Shades of grey my friend, shades of grey.

[fusionfreak]

Speaking of Kurt Angle does anyone have a clue what his persona or alignment is supposed to be? One week he acts like a top heel the next a face. You can't even classify him as a tweener.

I saw an interview with Kurt Angle a long time ago where he said he would love to play a character that has a bad ass additude like Stone Cold Steve Austin. He then said that everyone agrees that it wouldn't work for him to do that. Maybe TNA thought differently or maybe Angle said, "I'll sign with you if I get that kind of push". Just a thought but I've been thinking about it too.

[jimmy_shakerz]

Kurt Angle was really playing the heel guy in his feud against Samoa Joe. Example is the leg angle with Joe's girlfriend. Now that he's the number one contender he kind of switched to face... facing AJ Styles, being the victim of Cage's mind game.

[Ransik]

Well I'm up to September of 2009 with absolutely nothing noteworthy except no feds are above Cult status. Guess there's not a whole lot more for me to do.

[jimmy_shakerz]

Maybe Adam could answer this. Why everytime the WWE falls to Cult level.

[Genadi]

Maybe Adam could answer this. Why everytime the WWE falls to Cult level.

He already has mate, a few times in a few different threads.

[jimmy_shakerz]

Maybe Adam could answer this. Why everytime the WWE falls to Cult level.


Beginning of my game (International Level)
USA : 82
CAN : 63
MEX : 46
UK : 54
JAP : 51

2 Years later (Cult)
USA : 63
CAN : 58
MEX : 44
UK : 16
JAP : 60


Sorry for the double post. And Carlito... what was the problem ?

[D16NJD16]

WWE should be global not international.

[jimmy_shakerz]

WWE should be global not international.

Maybe... do you think that would've stopped them to drop to cult ?

[ilovebarbu]

Setting it Global is not a problem, they will always move down to Cult, just because the size will be determined by the overness you set up, but the roster will be the same, and you know WWE struggles to create new stars (Go Great Khali Go lol). WWE will keep on having under expectations shows given their size and overness as National to Global, just because the roster skills are not enough to keep it

[Steam☆Odin]

Judging by the product WWE gives us... maybe they should fall to cult level...

[D16NJD16]

No I'm not saying it makes a difference or not in stopping it from falling to cult, I'm just saying, realistically, they're a Global company/promotion.