Match Engine

[Adam Ryland]

There'll probably be quite a few polls over the next few weeks, as I gauge people's tastes on certain areas.

The first one I want to bring up is the match engine, or more specifically how people would prefer to see fights unfold. Very simply, there's two ways that I think would work, both with advantages and disadvantages.

Play By Play - The fight unfolds with messages appearing on screen as the fight unfolds, giving information on key moments. So it may run something like:

"Garner shoots in on Hughes, and takes him down, but only into the guard"
"Garner tries to move through to the mount, but Hughes blocks it"
"After an extended period of inactivity, the referee stands them back up"

The user would be able to go through them by pressing the space bar, so it would unfold at your pace. Advantages: More dramatic, especially for big fights.

Magazine Summary - The fight is presented in one go, in the format of a magazine article. So it would look something like (dramatically shortened to save me typing out a lot):

"Buddy Garner and Raul Hughes met at TFC 61 last night, but the highly anticipated match proved to be a disappointingly one-sided affair. Hughes rushed Garner right from the start, looking to land some big strikes, but Garner weathered the early storm easily, using his footwork to always stay out of range. Garner eventually used a clinch to control Raul, before tripping him down to the mat. From there, Raul's poor ground defence was brutally exposed, and the submission expert Buddy Garner had no problem applying a textbook kimura for the submission victory at 3:22 of the first round, taking his pro record to 14-2 overall and ending Raul's four match unbeaten streak."

Advantages: Allows space for opinions, facts and analysis to be added in; easier to cut and paste for diaries; more professional looking.

[Socko]

Time to be awkward ... I'd like the option of either of those, selectable for each individual bout.

Possibly with the summary option taking stats from a pbp engine that sims in the background should user not wish to watch the fight. :)

[mystic]

why not both, use the play by play for the actual matches and use the magazine summary for any next day recaps or reports of other promotions big matches.

picking one over the other I would do play by play

[Sensai of Mattitude]

I voted for Play by Play, because I think the surprise factor would be really good. I'd be happy with either though.

mystic, I think the idea of chosing just one is to save time, really, though I'm not sure.

[dvdWarrior]

Both possibilities have their merits, but I'd personally prefer the magazine summary myself. Just seems it'd be easier to handle than the play-by-play option. Besides, it seems like the play-by-play option might get repetitive after a while.

:)

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Yeah I agree with dvdWarrior the Play By Play would become quickly repetitive althugh some sort of feature so you could watch big fights in play by play would be good

[TheMiser]

Magazine format....that's how I get my MMA actions news via internet sheets.

[FINisher]

I'd definedly go with the "Magazine Summary", especially when the Play-by-Play is just like how Wrestling Spirit II was. You had always click and click with the "C"-button to advance in menus, which sounds boring. So yeah, Magazine Summary for me please. Hmm, couldn't it be an option for user to select? Or is it too much coding?

On other comments: Fantastic news!! This is something that I will be truly looking forward on, considering that I've played both WreSpi and TEW huge amount of hours, days and weeks, this should be something of a hybrid of those two games. Can't wait for more details.. sounds interesting. Hmm, how does Promotion Prestige and Overness & Size affect on the gameplay? The same with TEW07?

[screwus]

def magazine this took me by surprise cant w8:D

[AdmiralZ]

I'd go with the magazine summary. Play by play seems quite dated to me. Also, if the sample above is representative of what will be in the game, I'm glad to hear that the WMMA universe will be an extension of the CornellVerse.

[GDE71]

Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes



You get my point.

Loved the Magazine Summary you provided. Seemed about the right length for a fight that lasted less than 1 round.

[lovestruck420]

While Play by Play fills me with a nostalgia feeling from past ew's. I prefer the magazine option more considering no matter how good a game is scripted things would get repetetive after awhile.

[Twilight]

Magazine summary, if only to help distinguish the game more from TEW.

[alden]

I think it would depend on a few things......if it was a randome move generator then i would say mag style............but if thier was a inteligent system doing the matches and not just putting randome moves together then i say play by play......basicly you would have to have a entire match report engine which could be very very hard..........i guess i would have to vote mag style but would love to see play by play if it was done right.

[mad5226]

Another good thing about ply by play is it would be easier for people who write dynasties to work out the matches. I like the idea of play by play as long as there is a speed button where you don't have to wait 10 minutes for a match to unfold if you dont want to, you can simply fast forward.

[falling_star]

I would prefer Magazine Summary, as GDE71 pointed out play-by-play tends to get repetitive (oftentimes after the first one or two cards). For example, TNM was absolutely awesome when I first discovered it since I was about 13 years old at the time; but after a while, I ALWAYS used the option that took me straight to the finish because I didn't want to sit through it.

Although Adam offers a great alternative, moving the match at your own pace via the space bar. The problem remains that things will still be repetitive, and with a lot of sims that use play-by-play, one line seems to have no influence on the next a lot of the time.

Example:
"Buddy Garner rushes in, taking Raul Hughes down with a double-leg"
"Buddy Garner takes a few shots at Raul Hughes midsection"
"Raul Hughes nails Buddy Garner with a series of knees"
"Raul Hughes mounts Buddy Garner"

Perhaps I'm being too picky, but in the provided example, the play-by-play never explains how Raul got the momentum to land even a single knee, let alone a series, and it also never mentions a reversal that would allow Raul to mount Garner. Now, perhaps I'm completely underestimating Adam's ability and this might not even be a problem, I'm simply stating evidence from what I know of play-by-play in other games.

I would love to see the option of both, but I don't know enough about programming these days to know (a) how time consuming it might be to program both, or (b) how it would impact the size/memory required for the game.

Magazine Summary allows for better flow, and could also allow for more dramatic summaries in higher quality fights. It would also be better for dynasty writers who don't want to type out bouts, and still provides a good guidline of each match for those who prefer to write them out.

[Capelli King]

Yeah I agree with dvdWarrior the Play By Play would become quickly repetitive althugh some sort of feature so you could watch big fights in play by play would be good

Second that. If i had to choose then magazine.

[loves2spooge]

Magazine summary for sure

[mrdorf]

magazine

[BlueStar]

Perhaps try to do it like TNM does it: play by play but with an option to skip to the ending.

[ACCBiggz]

The difference with PBP in the case of MMA, it would still follow the match. You say it'll get repetitive, but all it is doing is going through the match. Fighter A shoots, etc.... I'm not too fussed by either, but I don't agree with the repetitive statement in the same vein with MMA.

[Wildcat]

I'm for the magazine summary as it limits excessive clicking. That was one of the things that frustrates me about Wrespi, the extreme amount of clicking it takes just to do a single match.

[Adam Ryland]

Thanks for the input so far.

To answer the earlier questions, doing both isn't really something that I'm looking to do; my goal is to make the match engine absolutely world-class, so I'd rather pick one or the other and put 100% into it than spread my concentration between two (very big) sections.

I'm actually glad the magazine one is winning, because that looks far more interesting from a development point of view.

[SHaynes23]

The magazine form would be alot more interesting. The play-by-play would be good in the begining, then it would probably get repetitive after awhile, and then people would just skip through to the end of the fight, thus defeating it's purpose.

[theoutlaw321]

Another vote for the magazine. play by play would be cool, but alas, repetitive and like SHaynes23 and maybe some others have said, you'd end up skipping thru it after awhile.

[Arsenic]

I voted for play-by-play. I think the main reason why I voted for it was because of the magazine article example. It wasn't very detailed and I figured that you could get more information from the play-by-play. But since voting, I've reminded myself that this is in the very early stages and that you haven't really worked on it yet. So I do think that the magazine article option would be the best way to go right now. It's an interesting idea and if you're putting 100% effort into it then I think it can really be something incredible. I still like the idea of play-by-play but, like people have already mentioned, what worries me is that it would get repetitive after some time. But, again, if you put 100% effort to that then I'm sure that you could make it work pretty damn well. But since we have to choose one, I'd have to change my vote to the magazine article. It's more of a unique idea and I'm interested in seeing what you would come up with for it.

[ACCBiggz]

I'm hoping the magazine style is more like Sherdog's PBP:
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=7006

They don't do move for move PBP, but it is broken down into rounds and different things like that.

[BlueStar]

I'll vote for the Play-by-play then. I think it'll have more depth to it, and if that means tapping the spacebar quickly just to get to the result, I'll do that.

[Thriller]

I prefer the magazine style.

So, will Garner and Hughes be in this game, or was it just an example?

[MaxxHexx]

How about an option in the 'World Options" area for either.

And for the play by play what if it all appeared at once like in TEW 04 where you can scan at your own speed.

EDIT-Just saw Adam's post so my idea is out.

[Thriller]

I used to play the No Holds Barred fighting sim, it had play by play, after the first few times I started to skip it. Wrestling play by play I could read quite a lot, but not MMA.

[Dochappy]

I think magazine style would work best especially if it was like sherdogs writeups.

[Gabriel]

From the standpoint of looking at the idea of doing a diary with this, I think that play by play results would possibly be easier to take and sculpt a fight out of, as what you're given are essentially the more important bullet points of the fight, which you would then get to take and flesh out into your own creation.

However, with that said, I voted for the magazine style reports, because the idea intrigues me, and if they are incorporated well and well done, they should be a very exciting part of the game. I'll agree with Biggzy though, that if you go this route, it would probably be best to use the Sherdog style of reporting, with each fight broken up into rounds.

In relation to the idea of PBP getting stagnant after awhile, I'd just like to set up a rebuttle in the defense of the Play By Play, just simply by acknowledging the fact that the summary format may get repetitive after awhile as well. In fact, it WILL. I guarantee it. It will just look flashier.

[Payne]

Both definately have their merits. I would agree with the option to have either, but, considering that has a lot of coding, I would rather have Play by Play.

Mind you, GDE has a good point, as well.

At this time, I don't care. Whatever is decided, I will play the damned thing.

[Genadi]

Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes
Play-by-Play is great the first few times you read it, then it becomes



You get my point.

Loved the Magazine Summary you provided. Seemed about the right length for a fight that lasted less than 1 round.

Good point :p For big fights like Adam said though it'd be awesome to watch unfold, I'd love to see both :o

[ACCBiggz]

I'm in favor of a magazine style or a Sherdog type style, but I still say PBP wouldn't get repetitive. It isn't like wrestling where you would have, "OMG Kang, He hit teh Tombstone" every match. In combat sports PBP is describing what is happening. If you watch all the Matt Hughes fights, how much PBP is going to be different, you will consistently say to yourself, "Matt Hughes with the takedown" and so forth. It's just describing the match, and it is different than wrestling PBP.

With that said, I support Magazine Style >_>

[Skrilla]

I voted magazine style over play by play, but it'd be great to incorporate the magazine style into a round by round recap, say with an Eddie Bravo type score along the bottom of the screen after each round to keep the player up to scratch with how the fight is unfolding, although the judges final scorecards won't necessarily relect the round by round scores.

Maybe showing the recap of the round then pressing the spacebar to show the round scores from a created 'expert' would be cool.

[Goldenskillz]

To me it depends on how long the write up for magizine summary is, both of these will end up getting repetitive in my opinion but with the magazine you dont have to button mash just to get through it and as long as the magizine summary is quite lengthy it gets the nod from me.