Fight Outcomes?

[Jacko00]

Adam, on what aspect will you decide the outcome of fights? Will it be all on stats or will it be something like 70% stats and 30% luck, I think the latter option would be better, or will it be on something completly different?

[ACCBiggz]

I huge fault of your latter... is that luck does not beat skill 30% of the time.

[Jasx12]

That's not what he's saying.

[Capelli King]

I think the outcome mainly should be determined by skills 50%, 20% experience ,25% form or fitness and 5% Luck or chance".

[Genadi]

I think the outcome mainly should be determined by skills 50%, 20% experience ,25% form or fitness and 5% Luck or chance".

I agree, that's a good breakdown. Heart should play a factor as well maybe 5-10%.

[Jacko00]

Yeah, it was an example, but upsets should happen quite a bit.

[ACCBiggz]

Upsets should happen, but I definatly wouldn't consider it "luck". I'll take GSP/Serra as an example, Serra is a BJJ Black Belt, he's taken BJ Penn the distance before, but is a huge underdog in the fight. If he beats GSP it'll be an upset, but not by luck he is a good fighter. Another instance would be a striker, who only strikes, against a ground guy... If they trade and the grappler lands a KO Punch, some may call it a "lucky punch" but when the guy threw the punch I'm pretty sure he intended for it to connect and knock him out.

I'm just not a fan of "luck" in combat sports like this. Would it be considered an upset? Yes. But not lucky.

[RepoMantaur]

i thought there was gonna be a simulation engine and not just a direct decision of win or lose

[ACCBiggz]

It will not be 50% of this, 20% of that, 30% of that. But I'm pointing out the flaw of the "luck" factor and the like.

[Jacko00]

Maybe it should depend on what fighter trains harder for each fight? I dont know, I am just thinking from a hidden perspective some fighters could stay undefeated for a very long time others may be one of the worlds best but gets beaten in what people thought would be an easy fight for him.

[jeremybotter]

Ideally, the engine should take into account not only the overall skill of the fighters in a bout and how hard they trained for the specific fight, but also how tough it was for them to cut weight. We saw a perfect representation of this recently when Travis Lutter tried everything he could do to cut weight, and then he came into the fight against Anderson Silva looking gaunt and in need of water replenishment. If he'd been able to make weight easier, he probably would have fared better, as he did extremely well in the first round but didn't have the endurance to keep it up because of how tiring the weight cutting process was on him.

[ACCBiggz]

Again, no one truely knows why Lutter didn't make weight for his last fight. He made weight time and time again prior, one of the things he said was that he couldn't get motivated. I'm definatly not sticking up for him, but one missed cut shouldn't put him in the category of being hard for him. Could have been any number of things, missed calculations, just not trying, etc.

[jeremybotter]

Again, no one truely knows why Lutter didn't make weight for his last fight. He made weight time and time again prior, one of the things he said was that he couldn't get motivated. I'm definatly not sticking up for him, but one missed cut shouldn't put him in the category of being hard for him. Could have been any number of things, missed calculations, just not trying, etc.

I'm pretty sure the process for the fight against Silva was tough on Lutter, because he looked quite sickly when he came in for the fight, and that HAD to have played a part in his loss. He had an okay first round, and then petered out quickly, and I've got to attribute some of that to dehydration.

[Jorge_JBR]

I'm pretty sure that all the things that you guys brought up (experience, skill, style, etc.) will be used in deciding the outcomes. Like someone else who posted on this topic, I am not a big fan of people saying someone got lucky in a fight. Style has everything to do with the outcome of a fight. As does experience, how hard they trained for the fight, and how easy or hard it was for them to cut weight. I mean, there are long shots that win, and you could say they got lucky because their foe didn't train as hard as he could or that cutting weight was easier for them than their foe, but that's going way out there, IMO.

[y2trav]

i dont like the term "luck" but i think something like "heart" would be appropriate. randy coture beat sylvia with ALOT of that!

on the other hand, bj penn, one of the most skilled fighters on the planet loses b/c of his lack of heart.

[The_Watcher]

I like the heart aspect. Maybe call it "Fighting Spirit" or something cool like that.

[thedraem41]

I think it should be a breakdown of things. Skill is not always enough to win you a fight, I think intelligence should also be a small factor of winning a fight.

Sometimes things like having too much intensity can work against you or not being intense enough.

I also believe there should be judges placed in the game and they have their own stats for judging fights, so that would also play into the outcome if it goes the distance.

[Jorge_JBR]

I like the heart aspect. Maybe call it "Fighting Spirit" or something cool like that.

And then, like WreSpi came out after TEW, Fighting Spirit should come out after WMMA.

[Capelli King]

I like the heart aspect. Maybe call it "Fighting Spirit" or something cool like that.

"Fighting spirit" was used in WRESPI.

200th post

[NickC13573]

I agree, that's a good breakdown. Heart should play a factor as well maybe 5-10%.

Ya, you can never measure heart.

[toddthebod]

I'm cool with whatever breakdown is used as long as not every fight goes to a decision. That's my big concern about this game as most fights will be a decision or draw.

[Capelli King]

I'm cool with whatever breakdown is used as long as not every fight goes to a decision. That's my big concern about this game as most fights will be a decision or draw.

I am sure hope i won't be buying a game where we will be having just daws and decisions! Decisions reminds me more of boxing!

I doubt, the fights will be mainly decisions or draws. But then again if you can regulate the rules and make the fights just 3 2 minute rounds then, you could have more of them.

[Capelli King]

It is always hard to determine heart. I think "determination" would be a more understandable criteria.

Although heart and wrestling spirit sounds better!

[Adam Ryland]

I'm cool with whatever breakdown is used as long as not every fight goes to a decision. That's my big concern about this game as most fights will be a decision or draw.

OK, I'll bite - why do you think that most fights will go to a decision? Looking back at the thread, I just can't see any reasons why you'd come to that conclusion at all, nothing I (or anyone else) has said has indicated that the amount of decisions will be any different to reality...?

[ACCBiggz]

For reference, and this may incorrect by a few numbers as I did it in my head, in the past 6 UFC Events 22/55 fights went to a decision. So you will still get a good dose of decisions as it is just 5 1/2 fights under half the time.

[Anubis]

As long as size is only a small factor (especially with openweight stuff), I'm cool with it. Rickson Gracie, for instance, was 180 pounds and could whomp damn near anyone regardless of size. Skill beats size more often than not.

I would say something like this:

70% Skill
15% Experience
10% Fitness
5% Size

Something like that.

[Ghostface]

As long as size is only a small factor (especially with openweight stuff), I'm cool with it. Rickson Gracie, for instance, was 180 pounds and could whomp damn near anyone regardless of size. Skill beats size more often than not.I think it depends more on the individual fighter, a great fighter will make things tough for anyone regardless of size but if they are fighting way below their weight class it puts them at a serious disadvantage, the bigger the difference in weight the more of a disadvantage the lighter fighter is at in most cases. If they are a striker KO power isn't universal, most lighter fighters just dont have the power to KO someone at heavyweight. A grappler would have to move the added weight around aswell, which would lead to him tiring faster, so I'd say it'd factor into it more than 5%.

i dont like the term "luck" but i think something like "heart" would be appropriate. randy coture beat sylvia with ALOT of thatI would put Randy's win down to his gameplan and general greatness moreso than his heart.

[Anubis]

I think it depends more on the individual fighter, a great fighter will make things tough for anyone regardless of size but if they are fighting way below their weight class it puts them at a serious disadvantage, the bigger the difference in weight the more of a disadvantage the lighter fighter is at in most cases. If they are a striker KO power isn't universal, most lighter fighters just dont have the power to KO someone at heavyweight. A grappler would have to move the added weight around aswell, which would lead to him tiring faster, so I'd say it'd factor into it more than 5%.

Well yeah, a striker would have trouble, since striking is almost entirely power-based. Technique-based fighters like Rickson Gracie, however, work differently.

Maybe the impact of weight should depend on style. A submission wrestler would have a much easier time in a higher weight class than a striker, for instance.

[Ghostface]

I think it would depend more on his opponent aswell, if he was fighting someone else well versed in submissions, the added weight he'd have to carry on the bottom would be to his disadvantage again.

Maybe the best way around it would be some sort of stat to determine how well he fights in openweight matches or against heavier opponents.

[y2trav]

I think it depends more on the individual fighter, a great fighter will make things tough for anyone regardless of size but if they are fighting way below their weight class it puts them at a serious disadvantage, the bigger the difference in weight the more of a disadvantage the lighter fighter is at in most cases. If they are a striker KO power isn't universal, most lighter fighters just dont have the power to KO someone at heavyweight. A grappler would have to move the added weight around aswell, which would lead to him tiring faster, so I'd say it'd factor into it more than 5%.

I would put Randy's win down to his gameplan and general greatness moreso than his heart.

yeah, but at the same time its his heart that has him training for a title fight at his age, its his heart to stand in there.

[kadekash1983]

As long as size is only a small factor (especially with openweight stuff), I'm cool with it. Rickson Gracie, for instance, was 180 pounds and could whomp damn near anyone regardless of size. Skill beats size more often than not.

I would say something like this:

70% Skill
15% Experience
10% Fitness
5% Size

Something like that.


I think fitness becomes a huge factor if the fight goes to three rounds. A person with good skill and bad fitness will go to crap after a period of time. If it can be added to the game somehow I'd love to see fitness help a fighter win in a long fight.