WMMA3 Initial Reaction Thread

[ShaunGBD]

What other definitions of "colour coded" are there?? :confused:

didn't know if you would back to belts or something like that

[Eyeball]

I'd personally prefer the colour-coding to go from red-orange-white-pale green-bright green. More intuitive than having to remember whether green or purple belt comes first.

[Adam Ryland]

I'd personally prefer the colour-coding to go from red-orange-white-pale green-bright green. More intuitive than having to remember whether green or purple belt comes first.

? That's pretty much exactly what has already been announced, just with yellow instead of white.

[denzil85]

? That's pretty much exactly what has already been announced, just with yellow instead of white.

Adam, surely you realise that while the majority of people will look at stickied threads when looking at a forum, some people won't and so you'll just end up repeating yourself time and time again ;)

[maudlin career]

Atep of Indonesia is a wonder to watch fight in this game with all of the new match engine additions. So far, I've seen him tear apart Bhumibol Ektawatkul's legs with some vicious leg kicks. By the time the second round started, Ektawatkul could hardly walk and Atep charged into him with a fast hand combination that put Ektawatkul to sleep.

[Couture=Legend]

Loving WMMA 3 so far, never really got into playing the default database in previous games but getting into it with the WMMA 3 demo.

One thing i was hoping for was for the 'Preparation' & 'Recuperation' stat's in the editor to be more specific (2-4 wks, 4-6 wks, 6-8 wks etc.) as oppose to it being just a number (1-100) which i find a bit confusing but apart from that it's great.

[ripwalk]

Can someone take a screen shot of what the spreadsheet feature looks like? I'm kind of curious what I'm missing on that one ...

[ShaunGBD]

it's all the info but it's in excel

(I tried to insert the pic of it in this post for youi. But I have to put it on a website. I'm not going to do that sorry.)

[MFP40]

There were 48 "stock" fight teams in WMMA2, and 47 in WMMA3. I see that New Zealand Kick Boxing didn't make the cut, leaving that region without a camp.

[Capelli King]

Upon reading about the retail version updates, it is good to have more fighters but cant help thinking that its now a waste of time to play the demo if the new fighters are only going to be in the full game.

You mean there will be more fighters added in the full game :confused: I did not read that anywhere, but if that is true, will be a great addition.

[Capelli King]

What part of "the beginning of mma" escapes you? Back when mma first started out there was only a handful of companies.

No offence, this is the 3rd version of the game, "the beginning of MMA" excuse simply does not cut it any more. The only reason it is the begging of MMA is BEACAUSE there is not enough fighters in the game + if it was accelerated to 2010, most the current fighters would be retired which means? More renders!


More over, if 1,100 fighters is not enough for you, then what is?

Firstly it is 1100 fighter including chicks AND all those which have yet to even join the game. Take away those we are left with 800 or there about. I would like to see around 2000 fighters, similar to what we have in TEW. Not all of these need to be in the game when we start, they can appear in stages and the full roster will be around that level at 2010.


There are still fighters I have never seen before and I have been playing the full game for 3-4 days before the demo came out and I have about 6 different games at 2+ years.

Pay attention to the bold text. That is the exact point, this game is not suppose to be played over just 2 years, in my games i have over 20 years of history, that is when you see the limitations of the limited roster + company setup.

Either way, i do not think this one needs to be discussed allot more, it is pretty obvious that most people expected a larger database considering the last one was very thin, there is a small increase, which is better than nothing, was just hoping to see a good 400-500 more in this version.

[Adam Ryland]

Seriously, please give it a rest, I've already asked once.

[Scottie]

Is it just me, or aren't there many submissions happening? It seems to be mainly (T)KOs.

Is that a reflection of the fighters, the era or the game engine?

[Jennie Bomb]

Firstly it is 1100 fighter including chicks AND all those which have yet to even join the game. Take away those we are left with 800 or there about. I would like to see around 2000 fighters, similar to what we have in TEW. Not all of these need to be in the game when we start, they can appear in stages and the full roster will be around that level at 2010.

All this shows is that the databsase needs about 500 more female fighters. :D

[barkflex]

First off, great game. Will be getting it for sure.

Some minor cosmetic thing, would it be possible to separate normal kick kos from soccer kick kos in the fight history section and maybe also standing and ground punches?

[Scottie]

Is it just me, or aren't there many submissions happening? It seems to be mainly (T)KOs.

Is that a reflection of the fighters, the era or the game engine?

To expand on this, following eight shows there's been 62 (T)KO finishes, two subs and six decisions. Admittedly, six of those shows are local shows but that seems way out of whack.

[Derek B]

To expand on this, following eight shows there's been 62 (T)KO finishes, two subs and six decisions. Admittedly, six of those shows are local shows but that seems way out of whack.

The numbers will vary hugely depending on who is fighting. While it might look somewhat one-sided, the data seems to favour strikers over submission based fighters. If you get a lot of big hitters going out, especially when you don't have a large number of well rounded fighters, then you're gonna get skewed data. And given that it's easier to throw a KO punch (especially on local shows) than it is to lock in a submission, I'm not surprised by the results. It's not something you can look at without the relevant contextual data to support it. :)

[Tag01]

To expand on this, following eight shows there's been 62 (T)KO finishes, two subs and six decisions. Admittedly, six of those shows are local shows but that seems way out of whack.

I've only ran one show and every fight was either a decision or TKO, but admittedly I booked a lot of striker vs. striker. The fights I expected submissions ended up being just control battles on the ground that ended in decision, but these sorts of things are probably fairly easy for Adam to tweak if necessary.

[Daffanka]

The thing that skews the data is that while wrestlers and strikers will almost always finish by (T)KO, the few submission fighters you have are generally skilled enough that they can finish by TKO on the ground as well as tap people out and if they're not good enough to do either it's going to be a decision.

I think TKO finishes on the ground are a bit too common from positions like side and back control (or that might just be because the guys getting taken down have no idea how to defend themselves) but it's not a huge issue. I'd like to see a lot more rear naked chokes from back control though, since it's usually quite hard to TKO from that position and even fighters without outstanding sub games can generally finish from there (look at Siver's win not too long ago.)

[grits207]

Is it just me, or aren't there many submissions happening? It seems to be mainly (T)KOs.

Is that a reflection of the fighters, the era or the game engine?

I've noticed this too. It seems like the only fighters that ever get submissions-are the elite level grapplers like Li-Kong Ho and a lot of BJJ fighters in the game prefer to go for a TKO on the ground.

[Afroduck]

Sometimes when I go and change a fighters weight in the editor I have to do it a couple of time because it is not allowing me to change it or it changes to a different weight class then what I specified.

[boble]

First things I noticed, yeah, lots of TKOs and Decisions, it seems only superior submission artists get subs, and most fights end with KOs, not sure, if the database is intended to be setup that way.

Plus, it seems to take even longer for people to be fight ready again, I know most MMA superstars only fight 2 to 3 times a year, but it would be great, if the average person would aim at 4 to 5 fights. When doing contracts, I usually had 24 month contracts for 4 fights, now people think they are too short, and demand up to 36 months for 4 fights, very strange.

[Pogo92]

Plus, it seems to take even longer for people to be fight ready again, I know most MMA superstars only fight 2 to 3 times a year, but it would be great, if the average person would aim at 4 to 5 fights. When doing contracts, I usually had 24 month contracts for 4 fights, now people think they are too short, and demand up to 36 months for 4 fights, very strange.


Of course they're going to ask for more time on their contracts, the longer they have a guaranteed job the better. You don't have to give them everything they want, though. Sometimes you have to hardball them.

[Greek]

Of course they're going to ask for more time on their contracts, the longer they have a guaranteed job the better. You don't have to give them everything they want, though. Sometimes you have to hardball them.

How is it better for them to be tied to a promotion for 36 months rather than 24 if they only get paid when they fight? And if both of those contracts have the same amount of fights then I don't see the point. I would much rather have a 24 month 4 fight (2 quaranteed) contract than a 36 month 4 fight (2 quaranteed) if you're looking it from a financial perspective... And even from a professional perspective it isn't realistic to believe someone would like to fight 4 times in 3years rather than fight 4 times in two years. Even 4 fights in 2 years is a slow pace!

[Jacko00]

How is it better for them to be tied to a promotion for 36 months rather than 24 if they only get paid when they fight? And if both of those contracts have the same amount of fights then I don't see the point. I would much rather have a 24 month 4 fight (2 quaranteed) contract than a 36 month 4 fight (2 quaranteed) if you're looking it from a financial perspective... And even from a professional perspective it isn't realistic to believe someone would like to fight 4 times in 3years rather than fight 4 times in two years. Even 4 fights in 2 years is a slow pace!

Its how contracts are in real life, its more about the furfilling of fights rather than the length of contract. Look at Heath Herring as an example, he has not fought in years and is supposed to be waiting out his contract which is taking a long long time. Most fighters end up getting released due to UFC's say so not the fighters.

[Scottie]

The numbers will vary hugely depending on who is fighting. While it might look somewhat one-sided, the data seems to favour strikers over submission based fighters. If you get a lot of big hitters going out, especially when you don't have a large number of well rounded fighters, then you're gonna get skewed data. And given that it's easier to throw a KO punch (especially on local shows) than it is to lock in a submission, I'm not surprised by the results. It's not something you can look at without the relevant contextual data to support it. :)

Look it might be the actual fighters, but I'm continually getting a disproportionate number of finishes from strikes as compared to submissions. For instance, in 22 cards there were twelve submissions. That isn't just skewed data.

Not sure I agree with the last point either about local shows. Considering the opposition is so bad, there's no reason good jiu jitsu guys should be having any more trouble subbing out a guy than a decent striker should KOing them. Perhaps the local fighters are too bad? I understand they are meant to be beaten, but they seem thoroughly uncompetitive.

As I say, it may be that there are far more pure strikers than guys who look for a submission but I remember a similar problem in either WMMA 1 or 2 where IIRC there were very few (T)KOs. That was tweaked and we got more realistic finishes.

[basketball45231]

The default data has very few jiu jitsu guys. Back in '98 there were either strikers or wrestlers. As the game progresses (due to eras), more well rounded guys will debut. And I think the only way to guarantee a sub in the local shows is to have the local guy be a better striker than the normal fighter, so his advantage is on the ground.

[Lucien Sanchez]

"Marcelo Oberto passed away of natural causes in February 1998. He was 30. The Puma had a 22-15 record."

[duff88]

I understand that it is a bit difficult to make changes in the game world after three installations of the game, but there's something with the names that is making the immersion a bit more difficult for me.

I wish you would have taken into account french canadian names. Looking at the first half of the fighters born in Quebec in the database shows quite a clear picture:

Alisha Wood - Gracefield, QC
Allen LeFleur - La Tuque, QC
Anthony Le Toussier - Senneterre, QC
Beau LuPone - Chandler, QC
Benny Danare - Gracefield, QC
Brad Wyman - St-Félicien, QC
Braxton Pryce - Mont-Laurier, QC
Bruce Steven - Port-Cartier ,QC
Duane Weatherly - Chibougameau, QC
Erica Page - La Tuque, QC
Ethan LeGrange - Quebec, QC
Foggy Lee - Sherbrooke, QC
Gianna Russo - La Malbaie, QC
H.M. Menzel - Amos, QC
JJ Reid - Val d'Or, QC
Kendall Tracey - Shebrooke QC

None of the names are credible French Canadian names, and chances of meeting someone with an english name in La Tuque, St-Félicien, Port-Cartier, Chibougameau, Amos or Val d'Or amongst others are pretty low.

I understand it's not much of a problem, but it's an easy part of what makes a fictionnal world immersive, and I think right now it's not on par with what to expect. If I buy the game, there is nothing to stop me from going through the database and changing them, but it doesn't hurt to say I believe it's a problem.

[IWWROCKS]

Beau is french isn't it? And you can use your imagination with a couple. H.M Menzel maybe Henri Michel Menzel? And JJ Reid, Jean-Jaques Reid? lol...but yeh I see your point and it is a good one.

[duff88]

Beau is french isn't it? And you can use your imagination with a couple. H.M Menzel maybe Henri Michel Menzel? And JJ Reid, Jean-Jaques Reid? lol...but yeh I see your point and it is a good one.

Well, I've never met a woman named Beau. Menzel and Reid are not common lastnames either.

And LeFleur and LeGrange are both wrong as well and should read LaFleur and LaGrange. Although it might be a possible derivate for a name that has been in an english area for a while.

[TEWFan]

I understand that it is a bit difficult to make changes in the game world after three installations of the game, but there's something with the names that is making the immersion a bit more difficult for me.

I wish you would have taken into account french canadian names. Looking at the first half of the fighters born in Quebec in the database shows quite a clear picture:

Alisha Wood - Gracefield, QC
Allen LeFleur - La Tuque, QC
Anthony Le Toussier - Senneterre, QC
Beau LuPone - Chandler, QC
Benny Danare - Gracefield, QC
Brad Wyman - St-Félicien, QC
Braxton Pryce - Mont-Laurier, QC
Bruce Steven - Port-Cartier ,QC
Duane Weatherly - Chibougameau, QC
Erica Page - La Tuque, QC
Ethan LeGrange - Quebec, QC
Foggy Lee - Sherbrooke, QC
Gianna Russo - La Malbaie, QC
H.M. Menzel - Amos, QC
JJ Reid - Val d'Or, QC
Kendall Tracey - Shebrooke QC

None of the names are credible French Canadian names, and chances of meeting someone with an english name in La Tuque, St-Félicien, Port-Cartier, Chibougameau, Amos or Val d'Or amongst others are pretty low.

I understand it's not much of a problem, but it's an easy part of what makes a fictionnal world immersive, and I think right now it's not on par with what to expect. If I buy the game, there is nothing to stop me from going through the database and changing them, but it doesn't hurt to say I believe it's a problem.


Same happens with Puerto Rican fighters. Most of them have english names (Felix Mattherson, Billy Russel) instead of the typical spanish names from the island. Names like Luis, Juan, Carlos and Jose are way too common in the island, with last names like Rodriguez, Torres, Sanchez, Rivera and such. Just a heads up for mod makers.

[jesterx7769]

Same happens with Puerto Rican fighters. Most of them have english names (Felix Mattherson, Billy Russel) instead of the typical spanish names from the island. Names like Luis, Juan, Carlos and Jose are way too common in the island, with last names like Rodriguez, Torres, Sanchez, Rivera and such. Just a heads up for mod makers.

I actually change alot of fighter names and pictures around (in 2) and changed Felix to Cruz "Walking Dead" Mattherson which I thought was a bit better and gave him a new pic as well.

[Lucien Sanchez]

So now I’ve finally had time to sit down with this I thought I’d give my thoughts.

The new mod maker facilities really are superb. Ironically, now I have them I don’t really need them!

Graphically the game is great, and much improved over last time. It makes the first game look unplayable. That said, will WMMA 2 pic packs not be compatible with WMMA 3?

The match engine is even more improved on last year’s, which I didn’t think could be topped. Guys now seem able to be throw down with each other rather than it always being striker vs. Grappler. Fights also seem to be more epic too. I had Endo vs. Sriyanto for the ALPHA-1 middleweight title. Endo was getting pummelled early on and only getting moderate success with his takedowns from afar. So from the third round he got into the pocket first then dropped for his takedowns and was more successful. Although the fight became less exciting as a result, it was very cool to see tactics change mid fight in a tactical sense, rather than simply being “encouraged to let it all out” by their cornerman.

I 100% support the tournaments not being held in regulated areas block. Its realistic and will add dynamics to historical mods if you’re running tournaments in Vegas, then it becomes regulated so you have to go to another state or whatever. I understand more casual players frustrations though, so if feasible, it might be worth putting a toggle option in there.

One of the main contention points seems to be the database and I disagree with what’s being said. I think the amount of fighters is fine as it is, even better when more are added. The problem I have with the default database is that it doesn’t feel balanced. There seems to be a massive amount of prospects compared to the amount of gatekeepers/journeymen/cans. Normally I’d expect there to be a 1:3 ratio of prospects to lower level fighters, but it seems to be the other way round. This is especially true considering the time period. There also seems to be a surprisingly high amount of quality strikers in the database, which is probably leading to the large numbers of (T)KO’s in the game. While this isn’t a game breaker for me, as I usually only play one default game before moving onto real mods, I think it’ll affect immersion when you’re trying to sign some cans and every other fighter is labelled an undefeated prospect.

It also feels a bit odd that a lot of the fighters have zero ground game or an underdeveloped one, despite both Fezzik and Foster being at the top of the pile for a prolonged period of time using exactly that. “Hmm, this guys got to 28-0 using the ground game...so lets train striking today?” Again its nothing big, but looking through the data it feels as though certain fighters have been dropped from 2010 into 1998.

The achievements are a nice little addition that will keep people playing the game for even longer. Hopefully its set up so that the majority of people will never fill it. After the adjustments were made to WMMA2’s match engine early on in its release, I don’t think I ever saw a gogoplata.

All in all, it looks to be another release day purchase. Feel a bit bad for WMMA 2, as I could still get another 3-6 months out of it easily, but it looks like it's going on the shelf for a while.

Great job Adam & the team once again.

[Adam Ryland]

Look it might be the actual fighters, but I'm continually getting a disproportionate number of finishes from strikes as compared to submissions. For instance, in 22 cards there were twelve submissions. That isn't just skewed data.

The ratios have been altered for the retail release.

It is skewed heavily by the data however, simply because the amount of people capable of getting a submission is considerably less than the amount who can get a TKO - this is particularly true in local shows, as by definition 100% of fighters can TKO their local opponent, but that's not true of submissions.

You also, of course, have to take into account that TKOs will always outnumber submissions because they simply have more opportunity to happen - you can do the former from pretty much every single position in the game, whereas submission opportunities are far less common.

[TEWFan]

I agree with Adam. Even today you see a lot more decisions and TKO's than subs and KO's.

[Nephrinn]

I'm just glad strikers are more viable than they were in WMMA2. Good to know that Adam tweaked it a bit more in favor of submissions though.

[jesterx7769]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but it seems Chuck Dooley's name value needs adjusting. He's been made 23 and 3-0 but his popularity is National.

Also something else I saw that may need tweaking is the turtle position. The match engine seems to be much better but I ahve had a few occassions where someone has been stuck in the turtle position for 3+ minutes with the person on top unable to turn them over and the person on the bottom not even getting an attempt to escape and referee not standing them up.

[TylerDrew]

First impression, wow.

Although I've always been a huge MMA fan and maybe one of the few on the forums with close ties to the community outside of fandom(Although there IS a Grey Dog fan in the UFC, you could probably get it in like three guesses but it starts with a D and ends with an azllete.) for many years and basically think Adam's games tend to be the best thing since sliced bread.(Many a rant I've went on about how people can sell a million copies of the same damned shooters but guys like Adam and the folks who made Mount & Blade can make for a better "open world" experience on a budget most big companies consider pocket change, because mainly they you know give a **** about their fans and put game play first.)

After all this love I feel the need to confess I did not buy the first two WMMA games. They were solid efforts but the matches were lacking, fighters didn't seems to wear down despite eating 700 hundred jabs, the database was thin. The whole experience just didn't feel....organic to me.

This was so much the case I forgot about WMMA 3 release till some boredom and time off work took it's toll and just yesterday I decided to see if the demo was out and WOW, what a change. The database is LOADED, the fights come off as organic and the "fog of war" is a simply perfect feature. I crack a little smile at every TAKEDOWN or BIG PUNCH. I'm gonna give the server a couple days to cool down as I just started tinkering with the demo today and after that out comes the Visa, Mr. Ryland congrats you finally captured the spirit of MMA in the same perfect way you did wrestling, a master of two fields and honestly I say this with the utmost humility and respect one of the greatest guys in the gaming industry, you sir are like The Pixies, whom I know you love so much(Judging by the insane amount of times you reference them in TEW.) I a stroke of electric genius flying below the radar because they are simply too far ahead of their time. Now I feel like a kiss ass but MAN I love this game.

[BigShowCollins]

One thing I noticed is that making weight seems like a bigger feature. I just saw the weigh ins for 124 in the game, and Almeida, Riddle, and surprise, Alves didn't make weight (Thiago by 10!).

I would guess that since the event was on Monday of week 3, there wasn't enough time, but this makes it very realistic.

[Rebby]

Jesus Christ, John Rivero. How can you even be happy with a victory over a light heavyweight when you weigh in at 215 at the weigh-in, and then 230 in the fight? What a cheat.