Muay Thai clinch - too powerful?

[Eyeball]

Currently running a game as FLB, which, mirroring the real-life Brazilian fight scene, has a large number of MT specialist on its roster. I am therefore noticing a trend which seems a bit unrealistic to me: once an MT fighter locks in that clinch, it's game over, even against another MT expert. In one 8 man tournament, I had:

Elgar defeats Edilberto by knee
Roberto Aldez beats Pedro Sousa by knee
Elgar beats Aldez by knee
Affonso Villar beats Elgar by knee

That's 4 finishes by knee in one tournament, and both Aldez and Elgar had 80% MT control skill and Edilberto and Sousa had 50%.

Another tournament I ran had 3 finishes by knee. Knee KO finishes are really not this common in real-life professional MMA.

Anyone else thinking the Thai clinch is a bit too strong?

[Hawk1665]

In my experiences, it seems fine. I had Bambang Sriyanto blasting Heiji Endo in the face for an entire round without a finish.

In WMMA2, unless the receiving fighter had a great chin or the executing fighter sucked at it, it was always one & done for me. One shot to the face and the receiver would fall instantly KO'd.

[1234]

Currently running a game as FLB, which, mirroring the real-life Brazilian fight scene, has a large number of MT specialist on its roster. I am therefore noticing a trend which seems a bit unrealistic to me: once an MT fighter locks in that clinch, it's game over, even against another MT expert. In one 8 man tournament, I had:

Elgar defeats Edilberto by knee
Roberto Aldez beats Pedro Sousa by knee
Elgar beats Aldez by knee
Affonso Villar beats Elgar by knee

That's 4 finishes by knee in one tournament, and both Aldez and Elgar had 80% MT control skill and Edilberto and Sousa had 50%.

Another tournament I ran had 3 finishes by knee. Knee KO finishes are really not this common in real-life professional MMA.

Anyone else thinking the Thai clinch is a bit too strong?

Would seem to me, without knowing the fighters, that their chins are maybe a bit poor. I had a fight in ALPHA-1 where someone got blasted with about 3 or 4 knees and managed to break free and continue the fight.

Could be wrong, but thats my view based on experience.

[Paatero]

I think it should maybe be slightly easier to get out of, there are ways in real life to negate the muay thai clinch, for example pushing your opponent up against the fence or shoving his arms upwards. The strikes should be very effective when they connect, but then they should be blocked for the most of the time, you rarely see knee knock outs in real MMA.

That is my view on the subject.

[praguepride]

I've seen both. MT clinch might just seem powerful because it feeds right into their "bread and butter" and if their opponent doesn't have good MT defense and/or chin, they'll get blasted.

It's a weakness they can exploit, seems alright to me...

[ampulator]

That does seem too powerful, but have you matched this person up against fighters with good wrestling and a good chin?

[Eyeball]

That does seem too powerful, but have you matched this person up against fighters with good wrestling and a good chin?
Both Elgar and Roberto Aldez are MT specialists with MT control and chin skills in the 80-90 range.

However, upon reviewing their stats, Elgar has a "wrestling" skill of 40 and Aldez 60.

If the "wrestling" skill the one you use to defend MT attacks, that would explain the knockouts, although it would seem a little odd - Aldez has a MT control skill of 86, he should be extremely skilled in avoiding clinch attacks as well as delivering them.

[Pogo92]

The biggest flaw I saw (Also running the FLB) was that Muay Thai clinches tended to run on for longer than one would see against even a modestly competent fighter. Plums like those seen in Wanderlei V. Rampage are incredibly rare in real life, regardless of the expertise of the Muay Thai expert. In real life, you'd be lucky to see a few knees or elbows thrown before the fighter underhook clinches the attacker or rips up on the plum.

Granted, this is only the very beginning of the MMA scene in WMMA default, so maybe there are few fighters with the varied skills to defend the double plum. Regardless, this is something I noticed as I played the game as well, and maybe it should be considered for a pre-release fix.

[mjdgoldeneye]

So far, all the Muay Thai clinches I've seen have ended in a KO by knee within 2 strikes. It's happened about 5 times now.

[mjdgoldeneye]

The soccer kick KO is also really common. I just got 2 on the same card.

[Adam Ryland]

Work has been done on the clinch to make it harder to maintain control, especially when throwing elbows, and to allow the victim a better chance of wrestling his way into a better situation.

[Capelli King]

Work has been done on the clinch to make it harder to maintain control, especially when throwing elbows, and to allow the victim a better chance of wrestling his way into a better situation.

good move, i also felt this was way too strong

[Pogo92]

Good call Adam. Let's see how it is retail. :)