What people think about the database proposed?

[Capelli King]

I personally like the option of having a bit of history.

I would prefer to have lets say a 15 year history and a few older fighters than be there at the very start.

However we could had always have done the mod ourselves.

Nice to see the members of the TEW are in the game;)

[teakle]

From what I read in the Developer's Diary, I have to admit that, I was a little disappointed.

I am not concerned about the time-frame, I suspect that there will be enough backstory for us to piece together the pre-history and we can be the ones to shape (or wreck!) the future of a fledgling industry.

My disappointment stems from the apparent (*see caveat below*) lack of scope of the game world. One seeing that there would only be 4 playable promotions and 200(ish) starting workers, I am finding it a little difficult to see where my competition will come from. If there is only one promotion per continent, who do I compete with? If there are only 200 workers, doesn't this create a less interesting world than in TEW?

*Caveat* - please read before flaming.

To counterbalance the above concerns, obviously my comments are based on a direct comparison to TEW, which is a different game covering a different industry. I fully understand that such a comparison will be mis-leading. I only have a passing interest in MMA so I do not know how many real world promotions or workers there are.

Ultimately, I will pick up the demo and see how it pans out.

[Babybackribs]

Now this is just the default database. From what I understand there will be real world mods at the release time of the game which should have more fighters and promotions as that is what I am most interested in playing.

[James Casey]

Out of curiosity, how many MMA organisations are running around the world right now?

And how many were running in the mid-90s? I'm no expert (looking forward to going in cold, kinda) but I thought that only UFC and maybe Pancrase and the worked-shoot UWFi were particularly popular in the mid 90s.

Perhaps one idea might be for there to be a lot of future workers and feds in the database - that way you have to make your own history...

If it's not there from the start, it'd be a pretty cool, almost DOTT-like, project for someone to work on.

[Sensai of Mattitude]

Now this is just the default database. From what I understand there will be real world mods at the release time of the game which should have more fighters and promotions as that is what I am most interested in playing.

I doubt it will be out at the release time of the game - while the makers can be making plans now, they'll only actually have two weeks (I think that's how it works) to work on the mod in-game before the game's release.

[MaxxHexx]

True, remember if we are helping the industry reform then many more promotions will open.

[Undertaker666]

My disappointment stems from the apparent (*see caveat below*) lack of scope of the game world. One seeing that there would only be 4 playable promotions and 200(ish) starting workers, I am finding it a little difficult to see where my competition will come from. If there is only one promotion per continent, who do I compete with? If there are only 200 workers, doesn't this create a less interesting world than in TEW?

*Caveat* - please read before flaming.

To counterbalance the above concerns, obviously my comments are based on a direct comparison to TEW, which is a different game covering a different industry. I fully understand that such a comparison will be mis-leading. I only have a passing interest in MMA so I do not know how many real world promotions or workers there are.

Ultimately, I will pick up the demo and see how it pans out.

Around 1996 was the beginning of when MMA was becoming more mainstream and there weren't many promotions across the globe, so in that instance it follows reality quite well.

With regards to the pool of workers, how many workers were there in the first iteration of the Cornellverse for TEW? That's not a snippy comment by the way, I honestly don't know the answer, but I doubt it had anywhere near close to the amount that's in the database today.
Then again, there'll be people in the database who are unemployed so you could use the editor to quickly add more promotions if you want more competition.

[Capelli King]

I have to say i am a little disapointed myself.

I would like to see a 2007 world with 15 years of history near to todays figures in fighters and promotions.

I understand setting up the history and a whole school of fighters takes a load of time (i should know, i made a few mods myself), i think if there is a problem there, some of our moders could help out.

A world of at least 10-12 promotions and 500-600 fighters would be more than satisfactory and close to todays figures.

If you ask me, no offernce. I think the main reason the game is starting in 1996, is due to the fact that making a 2007 mod would take 3 times more time if not more.

I would prefer to see a propper WMMA version of the game than focus on the mods.

From my experience playing TEW, the Cornellverse played much better than any of the mods.

But frankly speaking even if Adam leaves the 200 fighters and 4 promotions mod, i will get bye;)

[Unregistered]

I don't know where people got the whole 200 workers thing, but even so, I don't think we have to worry.

It seems as though hopefully through New Workers that will be added, and a (I pray) revamped scouting system or something will allow the world to grow greatly over the years. I do agree that maybe this is being done to quicken the process of putting the game out (if it is only 200 workers it'll be hard to say otherwise), but I have faith in Adam's abillity to make this a really enjoyable game world one way or another.

I personally was exicited by the idea when I first read it. Now you people are starting to worry me a bit! :p

[Jacko00]

Its better having less fighters, It wont take long to get to know them and stuff.

[Dvdmanny]

I'm excited as well. The small number of fighters is a little worrisome but I always enjoyed making new characters in TEW so adding a few to this wont be a big deal to me

[Capelli King]

Actually i like slightly smaller databases also.

In TEW i always deleted the women from the database and some really useless talent with no real history, limiting the database to around 900 members.

200 is a bit low however.

Of corse this depends on how the new talent and training works. I really hope there will be a good scouting system, where talent will sometimes simply appear, but more often discovered.

With good training camps, new talent will develop very quickly.

Now i am thinking about it, i quite like the idea of less workers and promotions!

I will probably rewind it to the very begining and start out fresh.:D

[JMimic]

I think the people making the databases might surprise you. Hopefully the real world mods turn out pretty good.

[asdfx3]

I guess I'm one of the few that thinks that having the game start out in MMA's infancy is a good thing. It gives the player a greater sense of history and legacy of both fighters and promotions. I also think people are getting a little too focused on the 200 fighters thing since there's nothing that says that everyone is going to be signed to exclusive contracts.

Anyway the default database is good way to get used to the game before things get too crowded, and by the time you have a handle on things a couple mods should be finished up.

[Babybackribs]

I never played TEW so dont know how the database works but if we start out with 200 fighters will it grow in 10 years and new promotions spring up or are we stuck with the same 4 promotions and 200 fighter cap?

[Capelli King]

I never played TEW so dont know how the database works but if we start out with 200 fighters will it grow in 10 years and new promotions spring up or are we stuck with the same 4 promotions and 200 fighter cap?

New promotions will start and the database will grow all the time;)

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=asdfx3;278646]I guess I'm one of the few that thinks that having the game start out in MMA's infancy is a good thing. It gives the player a greater sense of history and legacy of both fighters and promotions.
[QUOTE]

Although i brought this up myself, i also like the MMA infancy idea. I always play DOTT mod and the Cornellverse 96 and 75 mod.

[Undertaker666]

I like the fact that the database is set with the MMA world at it's beginning. Afterall, you wouldn't want to watch Return of the Jedi without seeing Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back beforehand would you?

[Capelli King]

I think it won't be too bad, because MMA does not have the history that wrestling has anyway.

[Sensai of Mattitude]

Plus, since MMA won't have been around for long, it will leave us with so many sagas of fights to create that haven't already been recorded in a fighter's fight history at the starting point.

[Babybackribs]

New promotions will start and the database will grow all the time;)

Thx for the respons and very glad to hear. Now I dont mind starting late as long as it keeps growing.

Another question for you TEW guys did any of the new organizations grow to become bigger than the originals?

[NickC13573]

Plus, since MMA won't have been around for long, it will leave us with so many sagas of fights to create that haven't already been recorded in a fighter's fight history at the starting point.

I think thats part of the reason Adam is giving us such an early start. If he gave us a very long history before this, it would be hard coming up with fresh match-ups.

[Capelli King]

Thx for the respons and very glad to hear. Now I dont mind starting late as long as it keeps growing.

Another question for you TEW guys did any of the new organizations grow to become bigger than the originals?

Well not really. Some of the the bigger ones went bankrupt, some smallers ones grew to mid level promotions.

Of course the player controlled promotions did really well and some guys went Global.

Not easy to say the least.

I played 10 years into the game.

This should be much faster with just 4 promotions and 200 fighters, the game will develop at a increased pace.

[Capelli King]

I think thats part of the reason Adam is giving us such an early start. If he gave us a very long history before this, it would be hard coming up with fresh match-ups.

Either way i am sure Adam knows what he is doing.

With such a small database, it will be very important how new guys develop.

In TEW i basically rellied on mainly the original database over 10 years into the game, only a few additions.

With this database, taking into consideration the way MMA works with earlier retirements ect, we will need a much faster appearing and development of the fighters in comparison

[Jay_Fish]

as far as competition in mma and adequite roster sizes, it will all depend on how you run your shows, and the different suspensions for injuries and drugs will go. being mma, you dont need the 30 man rosters or greater that are sometimes involved in wrestling. Also to a point i think some competition will be created by the other promotions champions

[thedraem41]

I was a bit disappointed myself when I read the WMMA universe was starting in 1996.

My main concern with that is, you can pick certain zones on the world map you'd like to dive into. You only have the ones that were hit in the real universe. Kind of dampers the realism and possibilities in the game.

I also wanted to see the world in 2007 so it would be playing hand in hand with the TEW world.

[Capelli King]

as far as competition in mma and adequite roster sizes, it will all depend on how you run your shows, and the different suspensions for injuries and drugs will go. being mma, you dont need the 30 man rosters or greater that are sometimes involved in wrestling. Also to a point i think some competition will be created by the other promotions champions

I do not think i agree. If you have 5 weight categories on a big promotion, you will need at least 10 in each category. So not less than 50 fighters

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=thedraem41;279155]

My main concern with that is, you can pick certain zones on the world map you'd like to dive into. You only have the ones that were hit in the real universe. Kind of dampers the realism and possibilities in the game.

[QUOTE]

Yeah that was one thing i was also thinking about

[Adam Ryland]

My main concern with that is, you can pick certain zones on the world map you'd like to dive into. You only have the ones that were hit in the real universe. Kind of dampers the realism and possibilities in the game.

On the one hand you say that you're disappointed that it only takes place in the same areas as the real universe, then in the next sentence you say it dampens the realism. It can't be both!

[Tommy J.]

Out of curiosity, how many MMA organisations are running around the world right now?

I'd guesstimate something around 200, maybe a little less. These would be the promotions which are able to run more than 2-3 events before going under.

In fact Sherdog id's for organizations go as high up as 973 for the relatively new Palace Fighting Championship, but that includes all of the defunct promotions as well.

And how many were running in the mid-90s? I'm no expert (looking forward to going in cold, kinda) but I thought that only UFC and maybe Pancrase and the worked-shoot UWFi were particularly popular in the mid 90s.

I did a little bit of reading on this one as I too was curious to find that out (using the start of WMMA, July 1996).
North America had, above all else, the UFC, which would pretty much paralell the American promotion in WMMA. Other than that there was the Hawaiian Icon Sport since 1995. A very obscure International Fighting Championship had it's first event (in Kiev actually, but they moved to the US since) in March 96. Extreme Challenge kicked off in November 1996.
Other "usual suspects" did start a bit later. KotC in 1998, TKO in 2000 and WEC in 2001.

I don't think there was any promotion in Europe back then. Finnfight seems to be the oldest one having started in 1998. Cage Rage ran it's first show in 2002.

Japan was obviously the hotbed of MMA in the 90-ties, though PRIDE 1 didn't take place until October 1997. Pancrase and Rings were the two prominent orgs. Shooto, while not really a promotion, goes back to 1989. There was also Vale Tudo Japan, since 1994, which had organized annual tourneys - quite prominent as they got Rickson to compete in the 94 and 95 editions. I'd also suspect that there would be some smaller shows but it's really hard to find them. UWFi was really more like the Cornellverse Inspire than any MMA promotion.

Additionaly there was at least one worthwhile promotion in Brazil (Brazilian Vale Tudo Fighting, since May 1996), IVC started in 1997. As for the women, WMMA turns out to be way ahead of time. Womens fighting seems to me is only now coming into the spotlight, the premier female-only org, Smackgirl, was founded in 2000.

So aside from Japan there were, more or less, four organizations active in July 1996, 3 of them in the US. Having that in mind I don't really have an issue with the size of the database, especially if Adam will keep expanding it as time passes. Ideally, for 1996, I'd like for a promotion in Brazil and a second-tier show in Japan to be included, but, again, the way the db is set up so far isn't anything too far off reality.

[BlizzardVeers]

Personally, I think it's fine so long as the number of fighters that appear are more then the ones that do in TEW based on popularity and the like.

Having a smaller amount of workers means you either need to not care about weightclasses, or just focus on one in particular. ALA UFC 1 - .. I forget which had no weight classes, and the original PRIDE shows which just focused on Heavyweight.

[Capelli King]

I was also thinking about the freeweight on the limited database.

As you said, it depends on how quickly fighters come and go and how they develop

[Tommy J.]

Having a smaller amount of workers means you either need to not care about weightclasses, or just focus on one in particular. ALA UFC 1 - .. I forget which had no weight classes, and the original PRIDE shows which just focused on Heavyweight.

The Unified Rules, along with the specified weight classes, were devised and enacted in 2000. However the UFC began to group their fighters into weight classes as early as UFC 12 in 1997.

Oh and Pride in little way focused on the Heavyweights. They just put popular fighters agains one another, and Japanese people seem to like freakshow matches. The Gracies, Carlos Newton, Sakuraba, arguably Wanderlei, Takada, Vovchanchyn and Belfort weren't really heavyweights yet they all fought somewhere on the first 10 PRIDE cards. Still, they didn't use weight classes until 2001.

[kettley]

I think people are stuck in a "pro-wrestling-TEW" mentality when looking at the number of fighters.

Don't forget that top guys in MMA may only have 2/3 matches a year and that some feds run a lot less than a show a month.

If you had a heavyweight division with say 10 guys (for the sake of argument lets say that's 4 who are considered contenders, 3 who are borderline prospects and 3 who are just fodder) you have potentially years worth of programmes to get through. Add extra guys to the division or fill it with stronger fighters and you increase the options hugely.

And that's with just one small division.

[MckHick]

I'm very excited for this game and can't wait for it to come out. Ever since I was young I watched the UFC from its inception back when there were no weight limits and everything went. I am glad to see the sport finally getting recognized as a sport. I'm glad one of my favorite game designers Adam Ryland is trying his luck out with the world of Mixed Martial Arts and can't wait for the game to come out. I think it'll be great to see how the original 4 promotions turn out into the entire world. The game really should start when MMA was being revitalized and becoming a known part of the world of athletics.

[Carlzilla]

If there's only 4 real promotions, I don't really think that 200 fighters is that small of a number. Plus, we can always add our own fighters to the database.

[Capelli King]

I think people are stuck in a "pro-wrestling-TEW" mentality when looking at the number of fighters.

Don't forget that top guys in MMA may only have 2/3 matches a year and that some feds run a lot less than a show a month.


I think you have a good point there

[mikey5time]

It all depends. I know that out of Halifax where I live, we have already has 2 different promotions do shows this year, with another on the way and another in one province over. Five shows in one region (The Maritimes) from four different companies.

Why do I post this? I DON'T KNOW! Oh wait, yeah I do. On all of those shows we're seeing alot of local fighters. I think 200 fighters will not be enough. Really, there should be alot of 'local' fighters. You need top level and you need low level.

The last card here, King of the Cage Canada, had an undercard filled with local fighters, a semi-main event featuring a local hero, and a main event featuring a local champion against a UFC undercard guy.

How will we be able to simulate a small local promotion without small, local, unestablished fighters to pay peanuts to?

[James Casey]

Therein lies the challenge, of course. Your job will be to take on the lowest, no-name/no-talent (or both) fighters, and try and put together a decent show with them.

Out of curiosity, can anyone take part in an MMA fight? Or do promotions require a basic level of competence in their fighters? I'm sure there's money to be earned from feeding some arrogant schmuck to Tito Ortiz or whatever, but at the same time having a universe full of people who all have at least one stat in the C or better range will seem... weird.

[Undertaker666]

It all depends. I know that out of Halifax where I live, we have already has 2 different promotions do shows this year, with another on the way and another in one province over. Five shows in one region (The Maritimes) from four different companies.

It's currently the year 2007, the database is set in 1996. How many promotions did you have running shows in your area back then?

[mikey5time]

A very valid point, my point however is that this severely limits my game play options. Now, I'm not just whining. I'd suggest if possible that there be 96' scenario released with the game, and possibly an expanded scenario later.

The 'birth of MMA' doesn't appeal to me as much as starting off in a thriving industry.

It would be more interesting to be a small local show, and build yourself up to bringing in established stars. I just don't see the depth in 200 fighters. What percentage would really be 'established' ?

[Undertaker666]

It would be more interesting to be a small local show, and build yourself up to bringing in established stars. I just don't see the depth in 200 fighters. What percentage would really be 'established' ?

The British promotion is the smallest of the four and will offer the greatest challenge so you could choose that one. I don't know percentage-wise how many fighters will be established, but all of the most famous and dangerous competitors would be in the larger promotions in the USA and Japan.

Alternatively you can use the Editor and create a small promotion in your own area and hire the unemployed people if you'd like to. Even if every default promotion had a roster of 30 fighters that'd still leave you with 80 people to choose from.

[Tommy J.]

Out of curiosity, can anyone take part in an MMA fight? Or do promotions require a basic level of competence in their fighters? I'm sure there's money to be earned from feeding some arrogant schmuck to Tito Ortiz or whatever, but at the same time having a universe full of people who all have at least one stat in the C or better range will seem... weird.

Back in the day pretty much anyone could fight, even in the big-leagues (case in point: Joe Son, Paul Varleans, Nathan Jones of WWE fame), it's still like this in Japanese promotions (see Bernard Ackah, Giant Silva, Zuluzinho). In the US recently commission are getting more stringent in allowing licences, there are efforts to create an amateur circuit, and you can't pretty much feed a can to Tito, b/c the comission will in all likelihood veto it.

I don't really know how I stand on the issue of huge mismatches in MMA. On one hand having them veto'ed would be the most realistic way to do it, especially for modern day mods. On the other hand if there are ca 200 fighters in the db this would severely limit the options in the Cornellverse version.

[teakle]

The British promotion .... people to choose from.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but moving away from the amount of people in the database, where is the competition for the players in this database?

In the TEW world, again I repeat that I know there is no direct comparison, as TCW I would compete with SWF and vice versa. As DAVE I would compete with TCW and SWF, whilst trying to hold down other Cult level promotions. As CZCW I would compete with everyone who tried to steal my talent! etc...

I do not see where the competition will be coming from in WMMA. There are only 4 promotions. The 2 large promotions are on different continents. The Canadian promotion is the only women's fed. The UK fed seems too small to compete with anyone.

So how does the default database create competition? Is is simply the case that you have to compete in something of a vacuum trying to build up your own promotion?

[mikey5time]

Who can fight is all based on local commissions. Some areas require you to pass medicals and they'll clear you to fight anyone. Some will look closely at your record.

When Butterbean was going to fight Mark Hunt, the California athletic commission said no, as Hunt was a much more experienced MMA fighter.

So Butterbean ate Sean O'Haire instead.

[The Franchise]

I think 200 fighters is plenty for just four promotions. Unless each group has 30-40 fighters in exclusive contracts, there should be plenty of talent to go around.

[Capelli King]

It seems to me that after listening to most people in the forums, the majority would like a modern day environment with more workers and more promotions and competition.

Of course form what i see, Adam won't have that ready for the original release.

However i am sure that a little down the road, he will make a 2007 or 2008 mod for the game and leave the 1996 mod for players wishing to play the MMA world at its beginning.

I see advantages in both the mods myself, and either way i am 100% buying the game irrelevant to the database.

As mentioned before, the database can be modified, almost everyone does to some extent anyway.

I am sure Adam will have a competetive atmosphere worthy of the original Cornellverse. If not straight away, then slightly latter.

In TEW i usually played the Cornellverse, that is an indication on how much i rated it in TEW.

[MckHick]

I'm always about real world mods, but I think I will enjoy shaping the world of MMA from it's recovery period. I love MMA so much and the new UFC button smasher for the 360 won't be coming out until at least next year that I am putting this game on my must buy list with the following:

Mass Effect
Call of Duty 4
GTA IV
Assassin's Creed
Smackdown vs. Raw 08

Just sitting here until then waiting for the demo to be released or at least get another blog update from Adam!

[Dvdmanny]

I agree with you Capelli King, I prefered the Cornellverse over the real world mods as I like shaping a fictional universe. I think it will be fun to start a small promotion and try and turn it into a major player. Thats what I always enjoyed doing with TEW

[Undertaker666]

I hope you don't mind me asking, but moving away from the amount of people in the database, where is the competition for the players in this database?

In the TEW world, again I repeat that I know there is no direct comparison, as TCW I would compete with SWF and vice versa. As DAVE I would compete with TCW and SWF, whilst trying to hold down other Cult level promotions. As CZCW I would compete with everyone who tried to steal my talent! etc...

I do not see where the competition will be coming from in WMMA. There are only 4 promotions. The 2 large promotions are on different continents. The Canadian promotion is the only women's fed. The UK fed seems too small to compete with anyone.

So how does the default database create competition? Is is simply the case that you have to compete in something of a vacuum trying to build up your own promotion?

You don't have to compete in a vacuum because you'll choose where you hold your shows, just like in TEW. Plus, as Adam stated in his Developer's Journal, not every area is equal because certain areas will have more "prestige" because they're hotbeds for MMA.
ie. if you make your company well known in Nevada then your company will be held in higher regard than if it was popular in Droitwich, England for example. (take a look at post no.4 in the Developer's Journal for a better explanation)

As for more competition, you'll want the best fighters working for your company. In TEW you want a top star like Tommy Cornell working for you but he wont sign because he's at a better company, same thing with WMMA, start as a smaller company and work your way up the ladder and steal all their top talent.

[Capelli King]

I think enough has been said on the topic.

We need to see how the game will play and unfold, plus how dynamic the gameworld will be.

If the pace is similar to TEW and the world worlds similar to it (which in several posts we understood it won't), then we will have a problem.

But, if talent enter more frequently, if they develop skills better and faster and if new promotions will pop up on a more frequent pace, then the lesser world is absolutely not a problem.

Actually it could give a different feel to it.

I only hope the reason that the world is based in 96 and has only 200 workers and 4 promotions is not connected to the limited time left and the database was rushed.

I am pretty sure that is not the reason.

I have faith in Adam and his work and i am sure he will bring to the table the goods.;)

[MckHick]

Adam is a great programmer. I've been playing his games since the inception of EWR! I have faith that the game will be great, and if the default database isn't up to "par" then ACC's Tap or Snap mod should suffice just great. However, I am just excited to see how much of the business aspect we will be able to control in the game!

[trypio]

At first I was a bit dissapointed as well by the size of the databas, but the more I think about it, the better I like it.

First of all, technically speaking I think it's impossible for the guys that make the renders to make 500 more or so by when the game comes out. These people probably have other jobs as well and rendering is just one of their hobbies. Then again, I'd rather have 200 characters with a picture and a good background than 700 people out of which only the best have pictures.

Then gamewise the only thing that bothers me a bit is that you have no competition near you. But I think this is more a "you vs. the world" than a "you vs. another promotion" game. It's a good decision to start the game earlier. Maybe then if enough copies are sold and there is a sequel the game moves on more than just one year, which makes the game world change faster. By then there'll be more characters and promotions as well.

[teakle]

In response to both Undertaker and Trypio's posts, I am still missing where the competition in this game is coming from, although I accept the points made.

Undertaker said that I would find it difficult to sign the equilvent of Tommy Cornell if I were a smaller promotion; my concern is that there are apparently only 2 large promotions in the world. If I wanted to sign the best woman's worker in the business, the starting data would seemingly only have one promotion who might want to sign her meaning no competition other than getting my promotion up to the desired level.

Further, if I were the big USA based promotion, if I wanted to sign the equivilent of Tommy Cornell, I would only have competition from one starting promotion. Even with that, I would wonder how interested a Japanese promotion would be in him. I accept that MMA is somewhat more international than wrestling in this regard, but just 1 competitor seems a litte light.

If I started as the low level British promotion, I would also seemingly have no competition. If, on the off chance, I stumbled a great worker, then the top promotions would appear to be at liberty to steal them. I would then have to move back to developing talent until the point I could compete with the 2 big players. I can't help thinking that competing with more small level promotions to see who gets to become the next "big player" would be more interesting.

Moving onto Trypio's comments, I agree that this is seemingly becoming a "me vs the world" database. The challenge being to set good fights to win over sceptical audiences, rather than competing with rival promotions to get the best worker who help put on the best shows.

But, a "me vs the world" database with just 4 promotions, 2 of which are utterly uncompetitive seems bizarre.

Again, I hasten to add that I am not criticising the game or the database. I do not know much about the world of MMA and I know that most of the comparisons I am making are not directly comparable. I am merely trying to understand the game world as the Cornellverse gave a good insight into how the world of TEW worked.

I am sure the game is designed to be modded to work with mods and the database, I suspect, will work 100 times better than it is sounding to me.

[kettley]

Interesting how many times you use the word "seemingly" in your post.

[Sensai of Mattitude]

I think, with MMA only just starting to win people over from where this database begins, it will be more of a case of the first four promotions getting a head start as they have been in it from near the beginning of the entire sport. When the MMA industry started, there wasn't instantly alot of promotions all competing against each other, and people wouldn't instantly think, "I want to become an MMA fighter" - much like businessmen wouldn't immediately open promotions, with the industry getting alot of negative publicity and being at a very low point when you compare it to now. The way that I understand it, that's the reasoning behind the somewhat small numbers that people aren't happy about.

By the way, for people unhappy about the number of fighters... While I won't read too much into it, Adam mentioned that he hopes that number will increase slightly before the games release... How many could that be? While I won't get my hopes up, for all we know the number of workers could increase by 25% up to 250. Like I said, I won't get my hopes up for that much of a worker increase, but bare in mind that Adam himself said that 200 would hopefully not be the final number.

[Undertaker666]

Undertaker said that I would find it difficult to sign the equilvent of Tommy Cornell if I were a smaller promotion; my concern is that there are apparently only 2 large promotions in the world. If I wanted to sign the best woman's worker in the business, the starting data would seemingly only have one promotion who might want to sign her meaning no competition other than getting my promotion up to the desired level.

In TEW if you're DaVe (or lower) and you want to compete with SWF or TCW then you have to get your promotion more popular and raise it's prestige, it's exactly the same thing with WMMA. But you don't know there's only one company that would want to sign the best female worker anyway, other companies could very well have a women's division that they'd want to sign her to.

Further, if I were the big USA based promotion, if I wanted to sign the equivilent of Tommy Cornell, I would only have competition from one starting promotion. Even with that, I would wonder how interested a Japanese promotion would be in him. I accept that MMA is somewhat more international than wrestling in this regard, but just 1 competitor seems a litte light.

How many competitors do you have if you're SWF in TEW? One, which is TCW. But you're right, MMA is more international so if you were the American promotion then i'm sure the Japanese one would be trying to get it's hands on your competitors it thought were valuable.

If I started as the low level British promotion, I would also seemingly have no competition. If, on the off chance, I stumbled a great worker, then the top promotions would appear to be at liberty to steal them. I would then have to move back to developing talent until the point I could compete with the 2 big players. I can't help thinking that competing with more small level promotions to see who gets to become the next "big player" would be more interesting.

See the start of my post with regards to improving your company. As for wanting more smaller companies, i've already stated that it'll be very easy to add more using the Editor if that's what you want so I don't see what the problem is there?

[sr_roy97]

It all depends. I know that out of Halifax where I live, we have already has 2 different promotions do shows this year, with another on the way and another in one province over. Five shows in one region (The Maritimes) from four different companies.

Why do I post this? I DON'T KNOW! Oh wait, yeah I do. On all of those shows we're seeing alot of local fighters. I think 200 fighters will not be enough. Really, there should be alot of 'local' fighters. You need top level and you need low level.

The last card here, King of the Cage Canada, had an undercard filled with local fighters, a semi-main event featuring a local hero, and a main event featuring a local champion against a UFC undercard guy.

How will we be able to simulate a small local promotion without small, local, unestablished fighters to pay peanuts to?

I pick this message to respond to only because I think I'm just getting irritated. We're beating a dead horse here people. Adam has a database with 200 fighters...PERIOD. We're all aware that he will enhance this database in time and better yet, you can do whatever it is your heart desires to this database. If you want to put Hulk Hogan and Tito Ortiz in a matchup together, then do your homework on their stats, create them, add a picture and set the fight up. The options are limitless and it only stops where your creativity does. On top of that, if you aren't creative or capable of making your own mods, wait for someone else to. There are plenty of people out there that are proud of their accomplishments with mods and would be more than willing to share. So let's just sit back and count our blessings that Adam has put together a game we have all obviously been longing for.

[sr_roy97]

Therein lies the challenge, of course. Your job will be to take on the lowest, no-name/no-talent (or both) fighters, and try and put together a decent show with them.

Out of curiosity, can anyone take part in an MMA fight? Or do promotions require a basic level of competence in their fighters? I'm sure there's money to be earned from feeding some arrogant schmuck to Tito Ortiz or whatever, but at the same time having a universe full of people who all have at least one stat in the C or better range will seem... weird.

I hope I'm not wrong here but I believe with all the state fighting commissions have to approve a fighter before they fight. I know when Dana White and Tito Ortiz were going to fight, Dana had to get approved by the Nevada State Boxing Commission. So I think that prevents Joe Schmoe from getting into the octagon with The Iceman.

[teakle]

... i've already stated that it'll be very easy to add more using the Editor if that's what you want so I don't see what the problem is there?

Thank you for your responses. I look forward to giving the game world a go when the demo gets released.

[Capelli King]

I pick this message to respond to only because I think I'm just getting irritated. We're beating a dead horse here people. Adam has a database with 200 fighters...PERIOD. We're all aware that he will enhance this database in time and better yet, you can do whatever it is your heart desires to this database. If you want to put Hulk Hogan and Tito Ortiz in a matchup together, then do your homework on their stats, create them, add a picture and set the fight up. The options are limitless and it only stops where your creativity does. On top of that, if you aren't creative or capable of making your own mods, wait for someone else to. There are plenty of people out there that are proud of their accomplishments with mods and would be more than willing to share. So let's just sit back and count our blessings that Adam has put together a game we have all obviously been longing for.

Cheers to Adam;)

[djthefunkchris]

Going to chime in here as well.... I aggree with sr_roy97. So going to post something else to think about...

Going with the C-Verse in TEW (for example), when Adam puts together the game, he puts together a working mod for that game, with all the different bio's and stats, etc. He does this better then anyone pretty much (best mod maker is also the game designer).

Anyone that has ever attempted (don't even have to have finished) know's how long making a mod can take. The more you have to put into it, the longer it will take, IF your working from scratch. Each person has to have a place/position, and to make the MOD feel like a living world is especially hard. Giving Bio's that make scense to the worker's skills are not easy either.

My point is, the bigger the mod that comes with the game, the longer it will take to have the game ready for distrubution, and.......

Adam always adds to it, updates, etc. The C-Verse has been enhanced alot in the last year (example). More people have been added, bassically, so I expect this to be the case on the MMA mod as well.

My only personal negative thing to say about WMMA, is that I can no longer expect the same amount of time being put into the TEW line.... By time I mean within' an amount of time, not how much time is put into the game itself.... For example, I'm upset at the fact that Adam is working on WMMA right now, instead of getting of starting on the TEW new version. That's just me being selfish though, because I like the TEW line, and think there is alot of things that can make it even better.

[BlizzardVeers]

The Unified Rules, along with the specified weight classes, were devised and enacted in 2000. However the UFC began to group their fighters into weight classes as early as UFC 12 in 1997.

Oh and Pride in little way focused on the Heavyweights. They just put popular fighters agains one another, and Japanese people seem to like freakshow matches. The Gracies, Carlos Newton, Sakuraba, arguably Wanderlei, Takada, Vovchanchyn and Belfort weren't really heavyweights yet they all fought somewhere on the first 10 PRIDE cards. Still, they didn't use weight classes until 2001.
Um. What? Igor Vochanchyn was easily 205, Belfort was 205, Goodridge? Coleman? Severn? Taktarov? Leopoldo? Yvel? Mark Kerr? Ricco Rodriguez? Heath Herring? Ken Shamrock? Kazuyuki Fujita? Wanderlei Silva is 199 usually. A great deal of the fighters in the first 10 PRIDE shows could easily be classified as Light Heavyweight, or just Heavyweights.

Gracies/Sakuraba/Newton = Middleweights.
Takada was usually 220+ lbs.

PRIDE very much focused on the Heavyweight (Heavier) division/s, or we'd never have gotten the amount of amazing Heavyweights that we did from PRIDE.

Also, I like the regeneration feature, it definitely will make the people that have done work for the game feel like their work on that one particular character was not in vain. :D

Again, for the 200 'database' argument. Even if Adam never expands on it before the release, it doesn't matter. We have to see how the game plays out before we can complain about something like that to be honest. As another thread poster noted as well, this game only goes as far as your imagination. If you've got an issue with a small amount of workers in the original data, start thinking up workers to add.

[Tommy J.]

Um. What? Igor Vochanchyn was easily 205, Belfort was 205, Goodridge? Coleman? Severn? Taktarov? Leopoldo? Yvel? Mark Kerr? Ricco Rodriguez? Heath Herring? Ken Shamrock? Kazuyuki Fujita? Wanderlei Silva is 199 usually. A great deal of the fighters in the first 10 PRIDE shows could easily be classified as Light Heavyweight, or just Heavyweights.

That was the point. They were Light Heavyweights, granted thge LHW and HW distinction is more blurred but all of them would be noticeably smaller when standing next to guys like Kerr.
And I never said that PRIDE didn't have Heavyweight guys. I just said that the booking strategy wasn't exactly "let's get two physically biggest guys in MMA and have them fight" since they also featured lighter guys who made up what they lacked in size with skills and popularity.

[shadowflame]

sounds pretty cool

[D16NJD16]

Around 1996 was the beginning of when MMA was becoming more mainstream



Ah, no.