Some Suggestions for WMMA 4

[VTial]

Edit: Sorry it's been a while, please move this to the proper sub-forum.

First off congratulations on WMMA 3. It really gets back to the good parts of WMMA 1 but adds the improvements from WMMA 2 while making them less tedious. Notably now all the default fighters have bios and the play by play is finally realistic yet even more exciting.

Play by Play Suggestions:

-Add an option to re-read the beginning of the PBP. Sometimes there are just fights that are boring or lopsided but turns out to be upsets and you just want to start at the beginning instead of the previous text.

-Adjust the text speed for the timer (even if this means waiting for every text to load before reading, the default speed can either be too fast or too slow for certain readers)

-Not really sure about this but maybe add colors for fighters' names. The Takedown and Submission and Big Strike are great indicators but it can still be hard to follow up on who is damaging who most.

Additional Rules/Settings:

-Drug Use Severity Occurence: I've only played the demo but it would be nice if there's a Chael Sonnen scenario where fighters don't lose reputation and aura and can reduce their suspension time. Obviously the more severe the less likely they can defend their case. Also if mixed with the current Drug Use setting could allow for situations like Josh Barnett and Royce Gracie scandals existing alongside the Sherks and the Sonnens.

-Controversy setting: Maybe put Drug Use here eventually or add it as a sub-option but drug use is a very "stale" occurence in MMA. It only gets news when someone fails the drug test but what about greasing/eye pokes/Carwin gas-outs/Velasquez spider-walk takedown recovery/Tim Boetsch man bear takedown. I'm not even sure the salmon belly flop is even in anymore. It would add alot more to the news if these were in place.

-Have some Social Media News: - Actually I still miss the forum posts. That really added to the first version (I forgot if it was in the 2nd) but things like fighters calling out or remarking after another fighter's recent loss are the next generation of hype. That and a ranking system for charismatic fighters. Could also add Strength of Schedule here for the Coutures and the Jardines.

-Clearer rules/vaguer rules: I'm always curious how the Pride rules are interpreted and so far it hasn't impacted any pbp results from the demo but it would help people new to MMA if these rules were alot clearer as far as how they are influencing the fights. It's not so much that this doesn't work but maybe eventually there would actually be a more advanced judging calculator. One that gives certain value to certain things. For example some fans might not care for either rules but would like Knock-outs to have more impact even if the fighter loses or gasses out. Others may want submission attempts to have equal or greater scoring than takedowns.

-Wall and Stall timer/Ground timer: One problem with having a count for every knock-down is that it gives too much advantage to the grappler or the superior technical striker but inferior power brawler. Alternatively maybe there could be a 1 round or 1 fight count rule. Only 1 10-count happens in each fight/round even if another knock down occurs.

-More focus on Wall and Stall rules: Some fans feel separation should be quicker, others feel that clinch grappling unlike ground grappling need not be separate and if the ref never separates them than the fighter on the losing end of the clinch would feel less inclined to hang on.

-Clothes rule: Some people feel Aoki's tights help in his JJ to the point that it makes him seem more devastating in MMA others don't feel that way. I'm not sure if Gi can be implemented but things like Storiropolous' tights are often interpreted as helping him more than not. Shorts are another factor with the whole grabbing and not grabbing. More importantly for this rule though is the potential for more diverse PBP as it seems rules influence how the fighters fight more so than their styles and if you can have it so that a simple "clothe" term can be transparently included in the PBP eventually this can be expanded into camp strategies and finally MMA strategies (i.e. there will be a PBP where GSP treats his "jab" as his weapon above all his weapons as if it's a clothing factor and there would be fights where he prioritizes his takedown but in a more boring manner and then there would be fights where he would aim to finish. The clothes could be a "safe" experiment into expanding the PBP without having to force the fighters to utilize all their skills. That said I know nothing about programming but it seems like it's the third variable to the often effect of Fighter A doing one thing and Fighter B countering it with another thing.

Misc:

-Instead of Single Match/4//8-man tournament which adds an extra click for those who never use tournaments how about this be delegated to weight class 1/2/3/4/5? Tournaments are rarely held and if they are used, it can be an option at the bottom as it can be annoying have to click this only to be once again clicking the drop down arrow that determines which weight class a fighter is in especially if you tend to be like me and book one weight class dominant events.

-Red vs. Blue theme: Correct me if I'm wrong but WMMA's theme seems to have been in blue, WMMA 2 - red and WMMA 3 goes with red mixed with gray and white. Constantly changing theme colors can be bad for branding but something amiss with these newer WMMA games are the lack of face-offs. Foster vs. Stanley wasn't a huge deal in the first game especially as these fighters were about to retire but that aura of a head to head versus match-up added a lot to the excitement of starting the first game in my opinion. I mentioned fighter names' text color change in the PBP but I think eventually there have to be a dominant versus relationship especially when newbies are often met with the boring and dominant Fezzik constantly winning the polls whenever they start their first game.

-Faces of the company: You mentioned that bit about having less body renders for companies but I think a default slot for showing the faces of the top fighters in the company could help ease a newbie into switching to another company. Again I'm referencing Foster v.s. Stanley facing each other but something like showing the top 2 of the company (or have it only if there's a demographic appeal to the fighters) and making their portraits clickable and viewable even before the player chooses the company adds alot to introducing the poorer companies to the players.

-Hero/Villain and All Business: Again referencing as far back to Foster vs. Stanley. However I'm also thinking of some of the bad boys in the roster bios and the increase of random relationships. All Business would be replacing the professional wrestling term of Tweeners and would most fit grinders like Fitch. Heroes and Villains are obviously what match making is all about but why making them more specific or transparent is because of things like the Chael Sonnen hype which went from villain to hero to suspended pseudo-villain/pseudo-hero all in one fight. But let me expand on the next suggestion:

-Hype changes: Personally it feels silly to be hyping one fighter over another. Eventually if Fighter B wins over Hyped Figher A - he can vastly steal Fighter A's hype like again what happened to Chael Sonnen. Similarly Fighter A's hype can be easily snuffed out by Fighter B like with the cases of Fedor, Rogers, Lesnar, etc. It just seems silly and it doesn't add to any additional cost to hype both fighters. Therefore it's much better to have elements where one fighter is hyped as a hero and another is hyped as a villain or faces vs. faces, heels vs. heels but nonetheless the impact should be a riskier element of more hype equals higher risk of gaining fame but higher risk of losing it.

Example:

If heel loses in a boring manner - decrease marketing/hype/fan appeal compared to having no or less heel hype.

If heel loses in an exciting manner - increase marketing/hype/fan appeal despite losing

If heel wins in an exciting or boring but active manner - vastly increase marketing/hype/fan appeal even if he is suspended for drug abuse.

Weaknesses: Heels gain little to no fame from upsets, heels gain little to no fame from winning a boring decision (this is where faces vs. faces or heels vs. heels come into play to offset this), heels don't sell as much merchandise = heels will only want bigger pay if they are the top 5 or top 10 in the company which also means cheaper but less loyal fighters.

Equally and many might disagree but the image should stick past the fight i.e. Lesnar's heel image and the fighters should benefit or pay for it in the rankings. This basically means rankings would be less based on skill but at the same time it means smarter match makers/hype creators from smaller companies can oust bigger named fighters without getting cheap regional recognition to boost their rankings.

Death of broken winning streak: Again I'm not sure how much impact this nowadays have but this is often the deal breaker for setting rules with automatic draws or tournaments.

Hopefully with the hype change, winning streak would no longer hold a bigger prestige over popularity and there would be fighters like Fitch and there would be fighters like Leben but at the same time, they could just as much improve beyond their image by adopting (or being urged to adopt by the player) into a heel or a face.

[Adam Ryland]

-Add an option to re-read the beginning of the PBP. Sometimes there are just fights that are boring or lopsided but turns out to be upsets and you just want to start at the beginning instead of the previous text.

You press the "s" key.

-Adjust the text speed for the timer (even if this means waiting for every text to load before reading, the default speed can either be too fast or too slow for certain readers)

You can adjust it from the taskbar on the title screen.

[VTial]

Thanks. I'm guessing I should have checked the help file before writing this topic.

Nonetheless thank you for posting the instructions directly.

[Adam Ryland]

I don't think the shortcuts are in the help file, they're accessed by hovering over the buttons in the match output screen. I'm going to add a mention to the file.

[VTial]

Flexible Contract System:

Quick contracts are boring and unstrategic which will lose the advanced sim fans.

Long tedious contracts take way too many clicks and the pay-off is often slim and would lose the fans who want to get things over with - especially since (setting aside pay) the player has too huge of an advantage to get the fighter to pay.

Flexible contract systems turns contracts to diplomacy offers.

The amount of fights and all that are invisible except for those who care for the stats but players should be able to avoid the screen as well as the salary cost and still be able to hire a fighter without delegating it.

The way this works is that you combine both short list and employee option. A short listed fighter can then message the player if he is available and then the player instead of choosing the contract will merely click the delegate button or the reject button. (Yes/no basically)

Delegate options:

Now the player stats come into play. Higher stats means more delegate options are unlocked.

I don't really know the rating but here's a mock ability tree:

1 - Delegate or Delegate to player (unlocks the current contract system)
2 - Show fight history
3 - Show more scouting report (i.e. the company or the fighter has revealed certain details to the company)
4 - Show advanced scouting report (i.e. if the fighter is unpopular/unknown you get to see his stats turn from words to numbers)
5 - Unlocks advise (i.e. what's the projected potential of the fighter based on the information)
6 - Unlocks more accurate advise (i.e. add/subtract fighter losses and wins plus injuries)
7 - Unlocks even more accurate advise (i.e. where's the projected potential for this fighter)
8 - Unlocks option to urge fighter to become hero/villain
9 - Unlocks option to lure superstar fighters for cheaper salaries by offering them fight incentives (i.e. fight a rival, hire a fellow campmate, etc.)
10 - Unlocks estimated max range for fighter's salaries (note: not the salary they would go for but the cheapest you could hire them for/a contract option that they may be weak towards i.e. percentage increases without displeasing them)
11 - Cannot be gained. This is like Bird rights for basketball but translated into loyalty. Fighters can contact you less for pay increases, they could delegate a more appealing to the player contract by themselves without needing to be haggled and ultimately for stars they could offer you certain things to keep them happy. (i.e. they could be lifetime fighters unless you fire them if you allow them to participate in a fighter's union)

Fully unlocked this is the menu the players will see:

Delegate/Delegate Advanced/Reject/Delegate to the player/View Profile

Current: Mediocre

Potential: High, (coming off 2 straight losses)


Delegate Advanced means:

Hero or Villain or Lie Low

[X] Offer a rival
[ ] Offer to hire a teammate
[ ] Offer a spot on TUF
[ ] Offer championship clause even if fighter is not a champion
[ ] Offer less fights in a year
[ ] Offer more fights in a year

The catch is that the fighter will always accept a fight contract but at the consequence of being in a "relationship"

That is the lesser your relationship, the more they will demand higher pay or be unavailable for fights versus a company that is in agreement with them.

They will also mail you more and if you don't respond, they will sink one level below their relationship per every week that you ignore them. They can also re-email you and you have to know whether the latter e-mail will please them (i.e. they thought you were just busy) or make them think you are a push over (i.e. they could pull your strings along)

Now the better the relationship, the less they will mail you until they will only mail you after a critical event in their career (injury/old age/potential firing that displeases them and they want upturned)

Hopefully this type of system also allows for the quick button requested in another topic only instead of quick contracts, you could just click delegate all or view all and cross out those mails you want to ignore instead of checking those you want to contact.

Nonetheless the end result is that the fighter has as much say to their contract as the CEO and instead of playing the salary game, it's a game of pleasing both the fighters and the owners and it also punishes skilled fighter max hiring because not only will the mails kill you but a skilled fighter especially a displeased one may demand higher pay but be less available to fight even if they are on an exclusive contract.

Note: The other player stats will still have impact. Scouting reports on the contract screen should not always reflect the scouting report outside of it. Negotiating will have to improve initial fighter relationship. Even random events like the availability of a top fighter in a certain company would cause fighters to almost fight exclusively for that company until they lose to that fighter.

[lritchi1]

Those are some good ideas, in the future I'm hoping that we'll have relationships b/w promotions like Friendly which allows you to possibly trade talent for big shows (ala Strikeforce and DREAM), Mutually Beneficial were the promotions need to co-promote to get highly paid fighters extra fights (like Affliction and EliteXC) and then of course At War which would be where you purposely schedule events at the same time and do other things to screw w other promotions (UFC and Everyone Else), not sure if it'd be possible to program all of this in though.

[Eyeball]

My idea that would make WMM4 100 times better than WMMA3: depiction of fight positions.

No no no, just hear me out. I'm not talking Crysis level graphics here.

WMAA3 already has a text area beneath the fight commentary saying "TAKEDOWN!" or "SUBMISSION!" What I would do is use that area to put in colour-coded silhouettes of two fighters performing the actual move, one fighter being a blue silhouette, the other red.

Doesn't have to be fancy or anything, just something like this: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/5295778/2/istockphoto_5295778-wrestling-silhouettes.jpg

or this:

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/oorka/oorka1003/oorka100300011/6574877-abstract-illustration-of-boxing-men-silhouettes.jpg

or this:

http://www.allvalley.co.uk/images/mma_silhouette_124.jpg

This would be especially useful for groundfighting, as it can get a bit confusing just who's in the dominant position sometimes. Just have a red silhouette holding a blue silhouette in side control, perfect illustration.

The game already features more than a thousand character renders. Drawing or getting someone to draw maybe 30 simple pictures of positions and types of strikes and link them to specific lines of commentary would be well within the abilities of a one-man developer as efficient as Ryland.

For me, this would make the game SO much better and wouldn't put much more stress on the game engine either, as far as I could tell.

[VTial]

Be the Promoter/Be Dana White

Have an influence over the Game World/Game Culture of the surrounding area.

This could be as simple as competitive credibility mixed with "favored" rules or it could go as far as hype wars where you can call out an opposing promotions favored fighter and discredit them over your champion which would result in either your champion getting aggressively hired by the promotion or the opposing champion does a Randy Couture but at the expense that if the fight happens - the promotion that gets to set the dream match up at its peak gains a huge boost in popularity. (Say 50% for regional popularity and 25% for national)

This could be set up with hard to accomplish rules. (i.e. adding aura and respect to a promotion and not just the fighter with the sole intention of unlocking this feature)

Aura = increases when a promotion main events Great (1%)/Fantastic(5%) or Excellent (10%) Main Events

Respect = correctly beating a bigger rival promotion on the same week in event quality (+10% for doing so -10% for failing. TV/PPV only impacting non-local area)

*Also higher Respect allows for Athletic Commission manipulation (i.e. not hiring/hiring certain judges and referees which influenced which styles get favored)

Be the Fighter

Sort of inspired by 2k11's Be the Player Mode and Romance of the Three Kingdom's Warrior mode. (haven't played the latter mode but it's there in the later games)

Inspire the promotion to constantly book you by calling out the right fighters in your weight class and winning them. Option to choose or create a new fighter where difficulty setting and style directs destiny stat.

Reward being a fighter that could be registered in the main game as an actual roster. Sort of like an interactive way of creating a database fighter.

*Mode can be unlocked or re-locked from the main game at any point but switching from one mode over the other rids you of the ability to book matches.

*Optional ability to choose already created fighter and pick more than one fighter.

Training Camp Schedule Option

Sets a fighter's training camp length in rules.

Promotions that fight more often allows less time for fighters to train in camps which hurt them but allows them to be booked more often.

Promotions that fight less often allows more time for fighters to train which helps them develop but allows them to be booked further.

For the middle of the road option, player can set a fighter on "hiatus" which allows them to get extra training camp in. Have two modes.

Mode 1 = Train more/Train Less (Switching results in fighter being unavailable for the duration of 1 month and after that their training camp schedules are switched up until their next fight or if the promotion rules have been changed to accommodate their new schedule.)

Mode 2 = Train for Style Main Event (Switching Results in fighter being unavailable for 3 or 6 months. 3 months for co-main event. 6 months for main event.)

*Short notice bookings work just the same. I don't really know how training camps work but there probably should be a requirement like short notice bookings require fighter to be on a losing streak)

[VTial]

You choose who wins the Awards at the end of the year

Part of the appeal of a game is seeing who wins the awards but I think sometimes there are fights that are questionable like how is a guy who fought Terry Bull viable to win rise of the year.

It could be a mini-game of sorts where you try to convince other judges that your pick is superior to their default pick and vice versa. I don't know how the exact system should work but I'm thinking something like a negotiation screen where you could go to a fighter's history and raise them a certain fight they have to be able to find an equivalent fight that is more prestigious for their fighter.

It doesn't really have to be "smart" in analyzing. You could basically have a list of 5 of the candidates and you can have the option of sending a message saying Fighter X deserves this over Fighter Y because of this fight and this fight.

Milestones instead of Yearly Awards as Stars

People watch Mark Coleman (and they even cheer for him no matter how boring he is) because he has a reputation as a legend who ground and pounds not because he wins yearly awards or has a high aura or reputation and nowadays performance.

I think it would be cooler and much more realistic if these categories are starred instead of a one time award in their bio screen.

Say:

-Heart
-Active Guard
-Controversial Fighter
-MMA-transitioned Submission Artist
-Knows how to use their Physicality

...right now the stars don't get any bonuses I think it's just for awards but eventually I think bonuses would give incentive for players to want the eye for talent stat.

I even think it's silly that the fighter has to have a star just to show their rankings + Creative Striking and Marketability are too powerful of an assigned stat.

Especially in real life. Imagine if Sonnen hadn't fought Silva. Who in their right mind would give the boring twig wrestler from WEC high marketability and creative striking?

As soon as the players see that stat, eye for talent is useless. Even negotiations I think is too biased towards standard contracts. Why would stars necessarily want standard contracts over win bonuses for cheaper base salaries.

Having these stars could truly make eye for talent a valuable stat especially if said screen is not just a star in the bio screen but a ranking of sorts - kind of like player scouting used in many Franchise Mode of games in sports. (Although most of them are often useless too but I think Fast Break College's system is more advanced so you already have a guy who can help you expand how the stars could work.)

[VTial]

Culture Alongside Area

Right now WMMA has this a bit with media bias and authority bias but it fails to replicate this with any non-low key area and therefore the game is always biased towards areas like America where as Asia always gets three areas only.

Having a culture setting would at least temporarily allow these weaker areas to potentially become stronger areas in certain mods.

i.e. if Japan and Asia has say a "hardcore" culture then promotions can rise faster in those areas compared to America at the price of it being more difficult to stay as a regional league. (thus making the limit size option more useful)

Random Narratives

With the current system of setting narratives, there's very little flexible anticipation which makes the default random elements of potential and deaths more exciting for mod makers. It also means that if the narrative twist was spoiled or known by the player, it would be a hindrance to the randomness of a game.

A percentage check for how likely one narrative might happen could give more value to narratives. Also adding narrative sets could help fix a random narrative not following through because the mid-point narrative didn't occur.

Add more stats and less randomness to quick matches

Right now not only is it annoying to test fighter capabilities because the roster keeps resetting after a match but it's completely ruined if fighter A happens to be sick because then it's an automatic loss.

Also without a set of stats, say a tournament: it can be hard to test a certain fighter against multiple styled opponents.

Set a certain beneficial limit to can crushing

Sure it can only help to a point but I think can crushing becomes too much of a staple in booking matches from a player's preference point of view.

In actuality, fighting cans hurt Crocop's development as much as it helped increased his aura.

With aura and menace now in place, maybe put them in the same category as choke artist and comes up big - stats that don't have meters.

Aura should replace Experience when can crushing happens. Say a fighter can only gain up to 30 Experience if he keeps crushing cans but Aura allows you to gain the benefits of a highly popular fighter. (this would simulated the TUF effect)

Menace would do the same except this replaces Aura for fighters that finishes cans (simulating the Pride fights effect).

Obviously this means both stats can't rise to 100% as much anymore but at least it allows the possibility to separate the Sherks from the BJ Penns to the George St. Pierre.

The formula for can crushing could be linked directly to experience and experience linked not so much from quantity of fights but quantity + reputation of fighters defeated that were higher than the fighter.

Two fight rule recommendations from Sherdog

Only strikes count:

Only things scored are strikes, slams and sub attempts

CompuStrike rules:

10 pt must system but with one judge being a system that tracks activity guaranteeing a higher activity fighter winning over one judge where the two human judges serve as tie-breakers

[VTial]

Number One Contender Match Rule:

Why not make number one contender fights 5-5 minute rounds? Seeing as though one of these fighters would have gone on to fight GSP, make it five so that fighter gets experience in later rounds?

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/fitch-penn-exactly-why-non-title-fights-should-five-3-min-rounds-1565301/

[HansLanda11]

Number One Contender Match Rule:



http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/fitch-penn-exactly-why-non-title-fights-should-five-3-min-rounds-1565301/

You can do this in WMMA3 already.

[VTial]

It's for individual fight match options only if I'm not mistaken. No real true number one contender setting where it's pretty clear why a fight is taking under that rule set.

[VTial]

Match Rule: Fight ends at first 10-7/10-8 round

I've always wanted something much closer to how NHB fights work but of course it's prone to bugs to have unlimited rounds so the Penn-Fitch fight made me think: Why not a fight that ends when a 10-8/10-7 round happens.

This doesn't just benefit the aggressor, it can work for a person ahead of the rounds but with questionable cardio to play possum and lose the round but of course it's mostly there to give incentive to a fighter to become more aggressive - and it still reduces questionable referee calls like the Shane Carwin fight. As penalty, maybe, make fights resulting in more fans complaining of an early stoppage.

[DerBeast]

Be the Promoter/Be Dana White

Have an influence over the Game World/Game Culture of the surrounding area.

This could be as simple as competitive credibility mixed with "favored" rules or it could go as far as hype wars where you can call out an opposing promotions favored fighter and discredit them over your champion which would result in either your champion getting aggressively hired by the promotion or the opposing champion does a Randy Couture but at the expense that if the fight happens - the promotion that gets to set the dream match up at its peak gains a huge boost in popularity. (Say 50% for regional popularity and 25% for national)

This could be set up with hard to accomplish rules. (i.e. adding aura and respect to a promotion and not just the fighter with the sole intention of unlocking this feature)

Aura = increases when a promotion main events Great (1%)/Fantastic(5%) or Excellent (10%) Main Events

Respect = correctly beating a bigger rival promotion on the same week in event quality (+10% for doing so -10% for failing. TV/PPV only impacting non-local area)

*Also higher Respect allows for Athletic Commission manipulation (i.e. not hiring/hiring certain judges and referees which influenced which styles get favored)

Be the Fighter

Sort of inspired by 2k11's Be the Player Mode and Romance of the Three Kingdom's Warrior mode. (haven't played the latter mode but it's there in the later games)

Inspire the promotion to constantly book you by calling out the right fighters in your weight class and winning them. Option to choose or create a new fighter where difficulty setting and style directs destiny stat.

Reward being a fighter that could be registered in the main game as an actual roster. Sort of like an interactive way of creating a database fighter.

*Mode can be unlocked or re-locked from the main game at any point but switching from one mode over the other rids you of the ability to book matches.

*Optional ability to choose already created fighter and pick more than one fighter.

Training Camp Schedule Option

Sets a fighter's training camp length in rules.

Promotions that fight more often allows less time for fighters to train in camps which hurt them but allows them to be booked more often.

Promotions that fight less often allows more time for fighters to train which helps them develop but allows them to be booked further.

For the middle of the road option, player can set a fighter on "hiatus" which allows them to get extra training camp in. Have two modes.

Mode 1 = Train more/Train Less (Switching results in fighter being unavailable for the duration of 1 month and after that their training camp schedules are switched up until their next fight or if the promotion rules have been changed to accommodate their new schedule.)

Mode 2 = Train for Style Main Event (Switching Results in fighter being unavailable for 3 or 6 months. 3 months for co-main event. 6 months for main event.)

*Short notice bookings work just the same. I don't really know how training camps work but there probably should be a requirement like short notice bookings require fighter to be on a losing streak)


I really like this, espesh the fighter option. I would love to see a game where you can run the promotion and alongside that also manage your own fighter. It would make for a great time in the game for sure.

[green poncho]

Match Rule: Fight ends at first 10-7/10-8 round

I've always wanted something much closer to how NHB fights work but of course it's prone to bugs to have unlimited rounds so the Penn-Fitch fight made me think: Why not a fight that ends when a 10-8/10-7 round happens.

This doesn't just benefit the aggressor, it can work for a person ahead of the rounds but with questionable cardio to play possum and lose the round but of course it's mostly there to give incentive to a fighter to become more aggressive - and it still reduces questionable referee calls like the Shane Carwin fight. As penalty, maybe, make fights resulting in more fans complaining of an early stoppage.

Although I'm not found of this idead, it kinda brought the TUF rules to mind.

Two five minute rounds, if scorecards are even add another.

[jsilv0]

I would like to see a fighter have a move or 2 that they specialize in that has a higher percentage of working for them than their rating in that area would have them do. An example would be to have Cody McKenzie have a higher chance of submitting someone with a guillotine or Shonie Carter have a higher ability to land a spinning backfist

[VTial]

so this is just a Sanshou fight.

I remember watching a regional boxing event and there were a couple of matches that were seperated by round of what the rules were.

Round 1 - Boxing
Round 2 - Kickboxing no clinch
Round 3 - Kickboxing with clinch
Round 4 - Kickboxing w/ clinch and takedowns, but no stikes on the ground (just wrestling and submissions)
Round 5 - Full MMA rules with strikes to the ground

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f61/special-rules-shamrock-vs-toney-what-1764173/index4.html#post57199225

[Lono]

Apologies of this has been brought up in another thread, but I think penalty points would be interesting (i.e. grabbing the fence, low blows, punches to the back of the head, etc.).

Regarding the "Be Dana White" option, how about "Be Joe Silva"? In this mode, you are the matchmaker only. Fighter contracts and the rest are left up to the CEO. This would add an interesting dimension IMO. The CEO could ask for your opinion on certain matters and either listen to you or not. If he listens and it works, your rep goes up, the inverse scenario, your rep goes down.

This would also allow for a competing promotion to try to lure you away with a contract offer as well.

What do you think?

[VTial]

Apologies of this has been brought up in another thread, but I think penalty points would be interesting (i.e. grabbing the fence, low blows, punches to the back of the head, etc.).

Regarding the "Be Dana White" option, how about "Be Joe Silva"? In this mode, you are the matchmaker only. Fighter contracts and the rest are left up to the CEO. This would add an interesting dimension IMO. The CEO could ask for your opinion on certain matters and either listen to you or not. If he listens and it works, your rep goes up, the inverse scenario, your rep goes down.

This would also allow for a competing promotion to try to lure you away with a contract offer as well.

What do you think?

+one

[xspudx]

Bump. This game really needs a multiplayer mode. It would be nice to start a new game from the beginning of MMA and be able to control two promotions, it's hard starting at the beginning because computer AI isn't very smart and they'll just randomly book matches and set up titles for their divisions. There's no speciality promotions, they all just do the same thing.

[Blackman]

I don't know about a MP mode in TEW and WMMA... Do people really use it? I think the games should just be optimised for SP gameplay. It's for the best.

Anyhow, for a next MMA-related game, I'd opt for a Wrestling Spirit-style game in the MMA context. "Fighting Spirit" or something. It would be a logical step, as WS3 development broke down. If there's a 4th, I don't really have that much ideas at first sight.

I do like the idea that fighters can specialize in submissions, though it might complicated things. Not every submission should have a skill, but you could be able to indicate a favorite submission hold. That could work. For the rest, I guess a polishing of the engine, adding more moves etc, would already do the trick for me. Including more management options and fleshing out the gameworld by adding more fighters so respawning would be made obsolete, would be a big bonus. Furthermore there could be more customisation options, like editing training camps on the fly, with being able to change the members during a game etc.

[Saguru Enjeru]

I know I'd love a Multiplayer option.
I have one diehard MMA fan friend who hates playing anything SP, and really wants to play WMMA3 with me.

[Capelli King]

Automated contract system which is allot more reliable and allot less tedious is my #1. When you have 100+ fighters you spend 50% of your time negotiating contracts, which sucks if you do not want to become a lawyer.

The game should be about booking fights, so if more than 10-15% is spent anywhere else, it means something is wrong.

[Dyne]

I would like to see a fighter have a move or 2 that they specialize in that has a higher percentage of working for them than their rating in that area would have them do. An example would be to have Cody McKenzie have a higher chance of submitting someone with a guillotine or Shonie Carter have a higher ability to land a spinning backfist

That's a good idea, and they could use it more frequently. Dan Henderson's gameplan consists of "big right, big right, big right" and that's about it. BUT, when it hits, it's all over.

Also, there should be a weakness option. Like for instance, Chael and the triangle choke, if someone locks it in it's pretty much game over for him. Or Rampage and leg kicks, etc.

[ThexEffect]

Sorry im far too lazy to see if this has already been said. However, I think there should be promotions with strictly boxing, wrestling, jiu jitsu grappling tournaments etc.. so we could have way more cross over stars.

[Blackman]

Sorry im far too lazy to see if this has already been said. However, I think there should be promotions with strictly boxing, wrestling, jiu jitsu grappling tournaments etc.. so we could have way more cross over stars.

It's been mentioned. Or al least have some grappling or boxing tournaments simulated so we can hire promising talent.

+1 on the automated signings. That also has been said before, but it's necessary imo. You waste a lot of minutes on those negotiations.

[scottpolak]

I was thinking that a be Greg Jackson mode could be fun. In the sense that you run one training camp. You collect a stable of fighters, train them and make the game plan for their fights. I think this could potentially be more fun than managing your own fighter as this is a text centered game.

[Babalu]

I like the idea of running your own training camp.

It may be in WMMA3, but I can't find it. I would like to see a spreadsheet or something showing how many days a fighter has been inactive without a fight.

When using a company with alot of fighters it can get difficult getting everyone a fight and something some slip by for a long time without fighting.. Is there a way to see without checking every fighters 'Current Status' ?

[Donoreem]

I'd personally like to be able to hold pure Kickboxing and Muay Thai events. Obviously, it's an MMA game; but I think people would enjoy being able to play with organizations based on K-1 or It's Showtime.

[xspudx]

Gosh this game badly needs a better delegation/negotiate all system. It takes way too long to deal with contracts and it's not at all fun. There should be a way to negotiate one contract to all parties, and the ones who decline you can then deal with. It's just too much work.

[Wade]

How about multiplayer?

[ManUnderMask]

Just a simple suggestion, have the name of the weight class show up on the match making screen even if it's not an official real world weight class? Like Strawweight is listed as Strawweight and not 106 - 115?

Another suggestion: Importing new database stuff into an active game. I'd love to be able to keep adding fighters and promotions without having to start over again and again in order to get them in the game.

[Jennie Bomb]

Another suggestion: Importing new database stuff into an active game. I'd love to be able to keep adding fighters and promotions without having to start over again and again in order to get them in the game.

You can already do this. If you go onto the options screen, there should be a button at the bottom (second fromt he left) labelled "Import Data". If you click this, it'll take you to a screen whre you can import stuff into your game. It won't import stuff like relationships, but if you just want fighters, orgs etc., it's great.

[ManUnderMask]

You can already do this. If you go onto the options screen, there should be a button at the bottom (second fromt he left) labelled "Import Data". If you click this, it'll take you to a screen whre you can import stuff into your game. It won't import stuff like relationships, but if you just want fighters, orgs etc., it's great.

I wonder if that was what it did. I just assumed it acted like an the import in Database. Thank you kindly.

[ThexEffect]

Gosh this game badly needs a better delegation/negotiate all system. It takes way too long to deal with contracts and it's not at all fun. There should be a way to negotiate one contract to all parties, and the ones who decline you can then deal with. It's just too much work.

This.

[AlexB]

Gosh this game badly needs a better delegation/negotiate all system. It takes way too long to deal with contracts and it's not at all fun. There should be a way to negotiate one contract to all parties, and the ones who decline you can then deal with. It's just too much work.

I'll add my vote to this. THE major issue with WMMA 3 by far

[Afroduck]

Two small things I wouldn't mind.One you can hype up individual matches,but I think it would be cool to hype an entire card.This would be like UFC 100 or UFC's return to Brazil or the Fox fight.Obviously this could be very risky,but if it panned out it would be awesome to see a big boost in popularity for your company.Two based on the other nights fight between Hendo and Shogun I wouldn't mind seeing in very very rare ocassions instead of a fantastic or great match if you could get a Classic bout.This would lead to a big boost in popularity for the fighters and a decent amount of gain for your company.This could also be an achievment to unlock for you and the fighter.

[SeanSwift81]

I’m a huge fan of Adam’s and enjoy most of the greydog games (TEW,Wrespi,WMMA). I have a few suggestions to improve the WMMA series.

The first are merly cosmetic but I believe they will give the game more depth for it’s hardcore fans.
Title Icon – If you search on wikipedia for a fighter it has a title icon for any title fights. Take a fighter like Kenny Florian for example. In the current game format if one were to look at his fight history you would see losses to Sean Sherk, Bj Penn and Jose Aldo. The current game does not show title fights for challengers that lose. Without a title icon it would seem like Kenny is an average fighter who lost a couple fights to some good guys, without telling the true story that he was able to work his way up to three title fights in the UFC. Bringing me to my next improvement

Main Event and Co-Main Event – Instead of the PPV Icon showing PPV’s hadlined and the buyrate, maybe we could also add Cards a fighter Headlines or Co-Main Events. This stat would further showcase how popular a fighter is and what they achieved in their careers. The UFC on Fox event was a big deal for the company and just as important as any PPV. It would also give a better idea of the fighters true history. JDS has only headlined 1 PPV against Carwin. If Main Events and Co-Main Events were noted it gives a more indepth look at fighters like JDS, Chris Leban, Michael Bisping, Kenny Florian and the numerous former champs who headline or co-main event cards for the #1 MMA Company in the world. This stat would show how popular a fighter is on the regional, national or international scene.

The last Cosmetic Improvement would just to add the following categories to the records section, company records or fighter stats of the game.
Fastest KO
Most wins in a row
Most wins (in a company and also career)
Most title fights
Most title defenses
Whether it’s Eddie Alverez, Uriah Faber, Torres or Anderson Silva stats like these help show how dominate a fighter is for a company. They could be listed in the company profile or in the internet section under records or top ten.

[Blackman]

I'll add my vote to this. THE major issue with WMMA 3 by far

I too feel this way for a long time. Money is never an issue so I always give them tons of cash so they'll accept, but - retarded as they are - they absolutely want their 5% PPV share, instead of taking 50K extra wage for some reason.

I don't mind THAT much, but it's easy to program and saves SOOO much time in big companies like GAMMA. Automated negiotiating would be the best imo. GAMMA and ALPHA-1 stink of money so I simply don't care. For smaller promotion I don't mind that much to manually negotiate.

[Pogo92]

1. Improved company/fighter popularity system. I feel like with TEW, you hit the niches of popularity spot on. Adapt or transfer the system into the WMMA universe, and now you get a model that implies some actual difficulty into progressing your company. As of now, once you get over the hump of becoming profitable, it's strictly uphill--Very little actual difficulty.

My suggestion? Since MMA is a very international sport, split popularity into two sections for both Org and Fighter. Your Hardcore (For lack of a better term) Popularity and your Regional Popularity.

Hardcore Popularity characterizes fans throughout the world who tune into your fights regardless of availability (Often through illicit means) and follow many fighters/organizations through the internet. These are the types of people who frequent Sherdog and the Underground. Hardcore popularity will increase based mostly on the excitement of your fights, but also on the prestige of your fighters/Win streaks. Hardcore popularity will not equate directly to a fighters commercial value; however, higher hardcore popularity will increase that fighter's merchandise sales, it increases the fighter's regional popularity internationally at a small rate for every successful or exciting fight, and will increase their hype-ability at every show they fight on. Or to put it differently, your efforts to hype a fighter or match will see a small boost if your fighter has high Hardcore popularity.

Expanding on merchandising, implement a system where one can expand into all kinds of product lines, from clothing to video games to DVDs. Conventions can be used to bolster sales and the hardcore popularity of your fighters, as well as a temporary boost to your local region hype.

Regional Popularity represents the Mainstream audience, and is the largest predictor of ticket sales, PPV buys, and TV viewership. This popularity would be divided like in TEW, where there can be dozens of regions per continent with a unique popularity for each fighter and organization in each region. This is obviously the most accurate system to reflect "Hometown" fighters like Urijah Faber, with the fighter's home region gaining a boost in popularity the higher the fighter's Hardcore popularity. A fighter will never get a negative detractor from being a "Hometown" fighter.

In essence, the differences between the two popularities is that they represent different cultures inside the MMA community, cultures which many fans exist in simultaneously. One is the Hardcore crowd, which watches as many important or exciting fights as possible regardless of accessibility, and the other is the Mainstream crowd, which buys PPV and tickets when available in the area, but doesn't follow as closely the news and interviews of the community. Since the two aren't mutually exclusive, the bleed over from Hardcore Popularity to fighter and match hype occurs from the co-mingling of these two cultures. The ultimate hope is a complex system that mirrors real fan interactions with fighters and promotions, while still maintaining sensibility and playability (I.E. You won't need a degree in sociology to understand that it's good to have both those values high).


2. Fighter Satisfaction - If I remember correctly, this was in previous versions but taken out in WMMA 3. There are loads one can do with this, so let's begin.

First, causes. To pre-note, all these would be affected by the fighter's personality:

Contracts and negotiations should have separate effects on fighter morale, with good/bad contracts having longer, more building effect on morale while long, drawn out negotiations can have a short-term downwards morale strike.

Fighter success in the ring and the quality of opposition they've faced should have a strong impact on their morale. Most fighters will want to fight frequently, and coming off a long layoff or significant loss, some will want a tune-up fight against a lesser opponent.

Work load. As any serious fan of the sport can tell you, fighter's have to fill more than their in-ring role. Press conferences, conventions, drug tests, and media appearances are all expected from these men and women, and as we've seen with Nick Diaz it can be a game changer. A bad interview or poor showing at a press conference can be a catalyst in pushing the fighter into rage, which can lead to him speaking out against the company or the head booker.


So fighter's can get upset, but what happens when they do?

Power of the press. Fighters who reach their personal breaking point can speak out against your company in many different ways--They are greedy, they are intolerant, they are clueless, they are corrupt, they are narrow-sighted, they play favorites, ect. ect. Their comments would correspond with their complaints, and a negative effect will be felt to your hardcore popularity and in some cases, the corresponding complaint (For instance, if Nick Diaz says they are feeding GSP cans and avoiding matching him up with him, GSP fights will suffer a penalty to hype for fights unless it's against Nick Diaz.)

Company Reputation. Having a bad reputation amongst fighters will make acquisition of new talent an uphill battle. Reputation is not based off public releases by fighters, but by the average of fighter satisfaction in the company, with an emphasis on similarly skilled fighters morale (Prelim, Main Carder, Main Eventer, ect.). Fighters who are/recently were under contract for your company will not use the company reputation for context in negotiations, but their own current/recent morale.

Sue for damages. This is the worst case scenario, where a fighter will claim losses incurred due to your treatment. Still need to flesh this out in depth. More below.


3. Misc - The place where small things go to be ignored!

MMA promotions stiffing fighters out of pay or delaying payment is an incredibly common occurrence in low-to-mid level organizations, and even Pride would often wait for months to pay foreigners. Problem is, I don't see how to effectively implement this into the game. Thoughts or suggestions on this front would be appreciated, since it would go great with the above suggested morale system.

What I can figure is, maybe have your administration have a changeable scale like you would for marketing. A low administration will be poor at tending to fighter needs/requests (Waiting rooms, providing corner supplies, ect.) and more prone to corruption/inefficiency (Accidental late payments, officials skimming off of fighter pay, ect.). Still, I don't think that gives the system enough justice, let alone flexibility. I mean, when fighters get hung out to dry, it's typically by a head officials decision. :/

New stat, or rather, the changing of an old one. Make "Interview" a broad brush "Media" skill. With it, fighters affect the critical success of weigh-ins, press conferences, conventions, interviews, media appearances, and even Twitter posts (You should add this in instead of the Blurcat forums. :P). Fighters like Chael Sonnen have garnered a HUGE fan base on the back of his successful fights and spectacular handling of media, showing the importance of a true media model in a MMA simulation game.




Will post more later. My next post will detail my desires for a new submission system.

[Blackman]

Hardcore popularity would be pretty much the reputation stat. And that already plays a part in fight promotion. Yet, you're right to claim that it factor is marginal at best.

Another suggestion I'd do would be to lower the ratio in which young fighters develop. When joining a camp, I see young fighters improving a lot, already getting at their prime around 24/25 years of age, entering a 8 year top level performance period. Imo a top form streak like that should be reserved for the best of talent. Mediocre fighters should'nt just be capped at 70 for stats, but should develop slower, reaching 70 at around 28 of age (for example). The significance of fighting camps is therefore, atm, kind of low, as fighters will arrive at their peak anyhow. It would be so nice to have an option to determine the development ratio, from x0.1 to x1 (1 being quickest), like most manager games. (doesn't TEW have it btw? haven't played that in a long while)

[SeanSwift81]

I think the promotion structure needs to be re-hauled. At the start of the game GAMMA and Alpha-1 are the only promotions on a national scale. End of the year awards should go to companies that at least have national relevance. Eddie Alvarez who was widely ranked as the #3 light weight lost to an unranked Michael Chandler but if the #3 ranked middle weight Yushin Okami beat #1 ranked Anderson Silva, which would be considered the bigger upset? My point is that the awards should be based more towards the popularity of the fighter and the promotion. The game needs to changed so that fighter and promotion organization need to play a bigger role in certain aspects of the game.

Check out the Recent rankings from bloody elbow, yahoo sports or sherdog
Rank Fighter Points Promotion Last Rank
1 Junior dos Santos 400 UFC 2
2 Cain Velasquez 382 UFC 1
3 Alistair Overeem 364 UFC 3
4 Brock Lesnar 330 UFC 4
5 Fabricio Werdum 325 Strikeforce 5
6 Frank Mir 304 UFC 6
7 Shane Carwin 287 UFC 7
8 Daniel Cormier 276 Strikeforce 9
9 Josh Barnett 265 Strikeforce 8
10 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira248 UFC 10
11 Antonio Silva 186 Strikeforce 11
12 Fedor Emelianenko 166 M-1 Global 12
13 Cheick Kongo 132 UFC 13
14 Brendan Schaub 122 UFC 14
14 Roy Nelson 122 UFC 15

In WMMA3 a fighter like Cain Valasquez would be ranked #12 or 13 after a loss to JDS. Fedor would be nowhere near the rankings after being finished 3 fights in a row. Fighters such as Cole Konrad can’t sniff the top ten because even though Fedor is on a losing strek he is losing in Strikeforce to known commodities and Konrad is beating no name fighters. My point is that people fighting in Sigma or XCC (or regional real world organizations) in the same weight classes as national or international promotions should not be ranked higher than name fighters in big name promotions. In WMMA3 an average fighter who beats 6 or 7 cans can be ranked higher than Jin Kantou or James Foster coming off a loss. The game needs to be tweaked so that name value carries more weight in the rankings. If a fighter with no name beats 12 unknown quality fighters in a regional promotion in Iowa he is never going to be ranked higher than a Stephan Bonnar or Melvin Guillard who have suspect records in the Worlds biggest promotion the UFC. Tito Ortiz, Fedor Emelianenko, Jorge Santiago, Brandon Vera, Wanderlei Silva, Tyson Griffin and Omigawa or continually found in the top 25 rankings despite recent losing streaks. They have all fought for big promotions and were higly ranked at one point so they never fall too far out of the rankings. In WMMA3 fighters should only move up when the defeat somebody who is of higher rank or higher name vaue.

[Adam Ryland]

Closed. Most of the recent suggestions have been specific enough that they should be in properly titled separate threads, not dumped into a Misc thread. This would also help to cut down on the huge amount of repeats.