Auto Booker

[lundm]

My one suggestion to Mr. Ryland is to bring back Auto Booker. I prefer to play more of a hands off role that allows you to book shows here and there while focusing on the roster and long term plans. I just find it overwhelming having to book every single show and I’m sure others would agree. The Auto Booker feature would allow “casual” fans of the series to enjoy the game on a higher level.

[Jonfun]

I agree, even if it only can be used if you are owner of the company and you employ a booker.

[dvdWarrior]

It could provide a new dynamic to the game - the user making all of the backstage decisions as the owner or the company, while a head booker actually books the shows. The user of course would have input as to which wrestlers were pushed and which wrestlers held championships. Could be fun. I doubt I'd use it myself, but it does sound interesting.

:)

[Lucied]

That sounds a bit like my suggestion for an Owner Mode. Though, I think I went a bit further than that.

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25816

[Sigilistic]

Somebody asking for an Autobooker. Must be a day ending in "y".

Seriously, why in the bloody hell do you play booking sims if you don't like to...y'know...book?

[Stennick]

Yeah I really don't like the idea of an auto booker. There is no good argument for one. If you're the WWE and you got three shows a week to book but you only wanna book RAW then seperate the three brands into three promotions and just play RAW. OR don't be the WWE. Find a promotion that matches what you want to do in the game. Why pay the money and why spend the time to auto book.

[Akki]

Yeah I really don't like the idea of an auto booker. There is no good argument for one. If you're the WWE and you got three shows a week to book but you only wanna book RAW then seperate the three brands into three promotions and just play RAW. OR don't be the WWE. Find a promotion that matches what you want to do in the game. Why pay the money and why spend the time to auto book.

Why pay the money? Because you want to play the game how you want. Some people can't keep long games going, having to book shows every week. Often times, I'll drop a game because I run out of ideas. Sure, I usually have a new idea and come back, but sometimes I'd like to just be able to sit back and run the business side of things.

Your idea is getting into telling people how to play the game. I know that there are people who don't like to book shows (cause they're really bad at it, or for some other reason). But they like doing everything else in the game. I think auto-booker would add another good element to an already great game.

Anyway, why so many complaints? I understand that some features that have been suggested would alter the game for anyone who plays it. But this one is a very optional one. I see plenty of reasons to put it in, but no reason not to except, "It's a booking sim, not a business sim."

[Apupunchau@optonline]

I'm with Sigilistic and Stennick although maybe a little less sarcastically aggressive about it. But this suggestion has been made on more than one occassion and it's pretty much been shot down each time. This is after all a "booking sim" and by putting in an autobooker you basically take away the whole core of what the game is about, booking the shows. Beyonf that the autobooker was never that good in EWR it never gave you better matches than you could get booking yourself and the AI has proven itself lacking playing TCW I can start pumping out B+ and A shows from the start and the AI usually can't put out better than a C+. In my 5SSW I started pumping out C+ and B- shows while the AI can hardly get over a D and usually goes out of business pretty quickly. So beyond my feeling that an autobooker takes away from the whole point of the game I really don't want the AI booking my shows anyway.

[Gigas]

The fact its been asked for so much is exactly why it should be in the game. If you dont want an auto booker, just dont use it. Why not please the customers by putting it in?

Basically by not putting it in, you are doing your customers a disservice. Its one of the most popular requests, to just ignore it is stupid.

[Gigas]

of course if booking runs more like WMMA, an autobooker would be even less needed.

[Stennick]

I still see absolutely no point in NOT booking shows. You run out of ideas but you want to keep booking shows? Why not just start a new game. If your playing TCW and you run out of ideas start in on DAVE or maybe SWF. Start a new game, or do something different with the game you have. With Auto Booking what are you doing? Putting together random shows for a year or two until an idea clicks? What are you hoping to accomplish by auto booking?

Furthermore the point is raised that the AI is not nearly as strong at playing the game as most people are. You can almost always turn out better shows with the same roster. I was doing a T Zone mod with current day WWE, I ran out of ideas and so I went the opposite direction, I created an entire fictional promotion, started them at local and started working my way up the ladder. There is so much to do booking wise on this game, it seems like a waste to auto book it.

However all that being said, I'm not saying you CAN'T do this, or that anyone is bad for doing this. If you want an auto booker hey great thats your vote, I voiced my vote and now we're good. As you've said if an auto booker is included in the game as long as it doesn't take away from those who don't want the option I have no problems with it. Just don't understand it is all.

[loves2spooge]

I'm keen for this as I'm only a casual player of the game and booking two shows a week (in game time) gets a little bit tedious for me

[hulkamaniac]

Think of it this way. Every sports game out there gives you the option to either play every game or simulate through them when you're in franchise-style mode. TEW is basically a franchise mode wrestling game. It makes sense to have some sort of sim function in the game.

[Adam Ryland]

The fact its been asked for so much is exactly why it should be in the game.

Another popular request is that the game gets simplified to the point of being like EWR. Based on your apparent belief that all decisions should be based on what is popular, I presume you'd like me to start work removing most of the stats from the game then?

:rolleyes:

I listen to what people's suggestions are, but at no point will I ever make decisions solely based entirely on what the majority want, because I have confidence in my own abilities to separate the good from the bad. I base my decisions on what fits into my vision of the game, what is possible, and what is feasible. End of story.

[Akki]

Think of it this way. Every sports game out there gives you the option to either play every game or simulate through them when you're in franchise-style mode. TEW is basically a franchise mode wrestling game. It makes sense to have some sort of sim function in the game.

I completely agree with that. If I'm playing FIFA 08 (or even FIFA Manager 08) and I pretty much know I'll win a game, sometimes I sim it and go to the important games, because I enjoy playing those more. I know that it doesn't exactly work the same way in TEW, but it's still an option that's available in most sports games, especially the management sim variety. I think it brings in more casual fans, and an Auto Booker feature could do the same for TEW.

On a side note, Stennick, I know you're just voicing your opinion, but all you seem to be doing is telling people how to play the game that they pay their own money for.

[Adam Ryland]

I know that it doesn't exactly work the same way in TEW, but it's still an option that's available in most sports games, especially the management sim variety.

This argument has never worked for me. The fact that sports games have it shouldn't have any bearing on a wrestling game, as they're two totally different beasts.

Competitive sports lend themselves to automatic management as they have clearly defined goals - usually to field a strong enough team with good enough tactics to achieve a win. You have a set number of resources, a set number of permutations, and a set target, all the AI has to do is figure out the combinations to use.

Pro wrestling doesn't work anything like that as it isn't competitive, and the goals are far more vague. All that it has in common is that you have a set number of resources. After that, it's entirely different. You're not looking to always put on the greatest show of all time, a lot of the time you're not even looking to use your best resources. Even if, for the sake of simplicity, we were to look at this as an auto booker that would be used purely for your "B" show, a show you don't really care about, you could say that you just want the AI to put on a decent show and not mess up any of your current plans....consider how difficult that would be. "Not mess up any of your plans" is a vague statement. For the AI to achieve that, you'd have to tell it:

"don't use this guy, I want him fresh for the next show....and this guy is on a losing streak, so he can't win.....and this guy can't be booked against this other guy because they have poor chemistry.....and this other guy has a gimmick where he only wrestles in tag matches.....and this guy here is running a gimmick where he is on strike, so he can do angles but not matches...."

You'd have to set up a hell of a lot of rules and guidelines for the AI to follow...by which time you may as well have booked the show yourself!

[Akki]

You'd have to set up a hell of a lot of rules and guidelines for the AI to follow...by which time you may as well have booked the show yourself!

That's not the greatest argument either. Sure, you would have to tell it all those things, but honestly, that's still easier than booking an actual show. You don't have to make the matches, nor the angles, or anything like that. You just tell the AI what kind of show you want (good or decent, regular or cheap, etc.), who to use and not use, and whether they can be used in a match or not. I agree that anything else, like only being able to wrestle in tag matches or whatever, is going too far. But with what I've described, the AI has some idea of what the show should be. Now it just does the rest.

[sebsplex]

That's not the greatest argument either. Sure, you would have to tell it all those things, but honestly, that's still easier than booking an actual show. You don't have to make the matches, nor the angles, or anything like that. You just tell the AI what kind of show you want (good or decent, regular or cheap, etc.), who to use and not use, and whether they can be used in a match or not. I agree that anything else, like only being able to wrestle in tag matches or whatever, is going too far. But with what I've described, the AI has some idea of what the show should be. Now it just does the rest.

It seems a fairly conclusive argument.

I also don't buy that it's meaningfully easier to autobook a show with multiple conditions than just to throw a show together manually. If you really don't care about the result, then it isn't hard to just slap random segments in between matches to meet the product's quota. I know it's rough, but your post doesn't touch storylines, the effects of clean victories and losses as opposed to tainted ones, momentum as a whole, chemistry, titles and other complications that TEW deals with.

On a sidenote, with the exception of saving money (cheaper and arguably poorer workers making for a worse show), why on earth would anyone select to autobook a weaker show than they need to anyway?

Sure the autobooker was at times convenient in EWR and I understand people (especially those running all three brands of the WWE) wanting to be able to basically skip shows at times, but for it to possibly work, you'd have have to strip so much from TEW. TEW is far more complex and diverse than EWR, Adam's made it clear that coding such a feature would require more effort than it's worth both for him to program and for the player to use.

Sorry, but I'd rather see him working on more worthwhile features and not have TEW stripped down to EWR mechanics than to appease people who sometimes run out of ideas, can't take around 10 minutes to completely throw a show together or buy a booking sim without having the desire to actually book their shows.

[ultimatenoob]

Can we get rid of the myth that people who play as WWE want the auto-booker? I play as WWE and think it's a really bad idea - I would never use it! Why should the game be dumbed down? Adam has created a really intelligent product, why should that be compromised?

Adam: Quick suggestion, tell everyone once and for all...
Auto-booker - Yay or Nay?

[i effin rule]

My opinion is add it if possible in some shape. Obviously people don't have to use it. The argument of "it's stupid and will ruin the game" doesn't work. No one has to use it. The example I used before is the in game editor. People can use it to cheat which ruins a game, but the option doesn't make you have to cheat.

I know this is a booking sim and I understand Adam's stand point. Sometimes though I, like so many others, would like just to hand the business side of things and this game is as close to that as most of us will ever get. I would be perfectly happy with no autobooker, but a different game mode where you simply play the owner and higher the head booker and staff. The booking could be done with similar AI that the computers use. Perhaps just give your team a budget and a few notes on necessarily a show basis, but maybe for the month. Perhaps it's impossible but I think there is a nice median here somewhere.

[Michael Wayne]

Think of it this way. Every sports game out there gives you the option to either play every game or simulate through them when you're in franchise-style mode. TEW is basically a franchise mode wrestling game. It makes sense to have some sort of sim function in the game.

this isn't every other "sports game". This is TEW and it being what it is, is what's separated it from everything else. Not to be rude, but if you want an auto booker, there's an old game called EWR that has it. And in fact people still make updates for it. Arguing that "not having an auto booker is alienating your audience" now what would happen if the people who didn't want it felt that an auto booker would devalue the game and refused to buy it. Then what? Who have you alienated then?

There's a nifty thing called an editor. If you don't want to book so many shows, delete them. Or run with a promotion that has a similar style to the promotion you want, but that also doesn't have so much going on. No one is forcing you to play as WWE, or to have so many shows. You can play as TNA and virtually sign everyone you want and they only have one show a week.

Say what you want about people paying money and about getting the features they want, but it's just not sensible and just plain dumb to buy a game based around the premise of YOU booking the promotion, to turn around and have the computer do it for you. Why play at all then? Spend your $35 on something more important. Like gas and food. It doesn't make sense to have this sort of feature in the game. People who are lazy, people who didn't think it out, and people who are afraid to get their feet wet want the game to play itself. An auto booker takes away what the game stands for even at it's very core. Why not call it "TEW: It plays itself so you don't have to"?


"don't use this guy, I want him fresh for the next show....and this guy is on a losing streak, so he can't win.....and this guy can't be booked against this other guy because they have poor chemistry.....and this other guy has a gimmick where he only wrestles in tag matches.....and this guy here is running a gimmick where he is on strike, so he can do angles but not matches...."


don't forget to tell the game that a certain worker needs to be turned that week, or needs to debut a gimmick, or not to use him/her because they need to remain off screen for their gimmick change.

The fact its been asked for so much is exactly why it should be in the game.

"the masses" asked for a lot of things of games over the years and they were added because "the masses" wanted it and the games wound up turning out like shyte. Madden and SD vs Raw are two key examples. Just because the "masses" want it, doesn't make it a good idea. Wrestling game players are still paying the price for "let's have voice overs and audio commentary". And people who couldn't give a rats arse about Madden having a "career" mode have to deal with the fact that stuff couldn't be done because room was made for a useless feature. Or that our "overall game progress" is low because we refuse to play those modes. Why should I spend $70 for a game to PLAY football only to end up with a bunch of features I don't want?

Why should I buy a SD vs Raw game, wanting updated rosters but get denied that because they're "no room" and that the CAW section is systematically being demolished for things like "GM mode" and "voice overs", and "career mode". If more people played TEW and WreSpi, we wouldn't need such inferior features in those games anyways. If you knew TEW existed and played it, what purpose would you have to even suggest it get added to a game, esp when you know it's gonna be inferior?

Fact is, people who want it in can't come up with a valid, reasonable purpose for this feature to be included except for "the masses want it". Even in challenging the game creator's reasoning, even when the flaws of the feature have already been pointed out, even when this issue has been discussed since TEW 04'. And considering the complexity of the game and the depth of the game, there is no possible benefit from adding it.

[Akki]

Again, with everything that's been said, it seems the only good argument for why Auto Booker shouldn't be in has come from Adam. Everyone else has complained about people saying "Everyone wants it" or "It's in every sports game", and then just proceeded to insult the people who do want it. (MW, have you considered that some people like Superstar mode or Career mode or GM mode, and you're not the only one playing?) Once again, and just so it gets through clear... IF YOU DON'T WANT IT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT!!! You can have your "full" TEW, and the people who want Auto Booker can have a button that would dumb it down.

don't forget to tell the game that a certain worker needs to be turned that week, or needs to debut a gimmick, or not to use him/her because they need to remain off screen for their gimmick change.

Alright... As I said before, some things are taking it a little too far. But for the turning, or debuting gimmicks, or keeping off screen, if you set it in the Creative section of the game, the Auto Booker could see that and then react correspondingly on the next show it books.

I'm not saying the shows have to make a great deal of sense, but that with some very rough guidelines, the AI should be able to put together a show just as it does in one of the AI-controlled promotions.

If someone could explain to me what HUGE feature needs to be added that would keep this from being done, please do so. And if Adam can explain what would keep this feature from happening the way I described it, please do so. Just to make it easy, here's a little outline.

AUTO BOOKER

You don't want to book a show, so you want the auto booker to do it.

Prior to the show, you go to to the Creative section, and set any turns or gimmick changes that need to be made.

You proceed to the show as usual, check who is not available, set the venue.

You go to the booking screen, and you click Auto Booker.

A window pops up. It shows a list of available workers. Next to each are three checkboxes, that say "Match", "Angles", and "Must Be Used". If you check "Match", the worker can be used to wrestle a match on the show. If you check "Angles", the worker can be used in angles on the show. If you check "Must Be Used", the Auto Booker must have that worker on the show, no matter what.

At the bottom, there's a drop-down menu, called "Show Cost". This allows you to give a rough budget for the show. The choices are "Cheap", "Normal", and "Extravagant". For cheap, the AI will use all your "Must Be Used" workers, and pick a minimal amount of workers it needs to put on the show out of the others you selected, with cost being a priority. Regular would have it use enough workers to put on a pretty good show, but not use high cost workers who don't have "Must Be Used" selected. Extravagant would mean that it uses as many workers as it needs out of the ones you selected, with cost being no object, to put on as great a show as possible. This mostly affects use of wrestlers on PPA contracts, as the written ones cost 0 per show, anyway.

You press OK, and it gives you a warning, pretty much the same as when you press "Run the Show". You click OK, and the AI does its work, then brings you to a results screen. Not the one given after a normal show, but more like the one you get when you click "View Results". It has the match results, the ratings, and the overall rating, with a note telling you whether the show raised your popularity or not.

I know that's not exactly short, but I'm trying to flesh out the idea as much as possible. Any other suggestions are obviously welcome.

[Michael Wayne]

Again, with everything that's been said, it seems the only good argument for why Auto Booker shouldn't be in has come from Adam. Everyone else has complained about people saying "Everyone wants it" or "It's in every sports game", and then just proceeded to insult the people who do want it. (MW, have you considered that some people like Superstar mode or Career mode or GM mode, and you're not the only one playing?) Once again, and just so it gets through clear... IF YOU DON'T WANT IT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT!!! You can have your "full" TEW, and the people who want Auto Booker can have a button that would dumb it down.

the point I'm illustrating here is that people who are saying "because they're paying for a game and they want it, they should have it". What if I'm paying for a game and I don't want it. I have just as much right for it not to be included. See how it becomes a double edged sword?

Now, I understand that "if I don't want it, I don't have to use it". However, I can also say "if you don't want to book so many shows, delete some of them".

And in the case of you following up on my point about the SD series.. Yes, I'm not the only one playing. But they're also not the only one paying. See how it goes hand in hand? Arguing about the auto booker is merely beating a dead horse. It's been discussed to death and so far we've had 3 generations of the game made and the developer remains firm on the stance of it not being included. Might as well give it a rest. The thing about the auto booker is, yes I used it on EWR. I used it on EWR when I got bored of the game and rightfully should have deleted the entire thing from my hard drive then and there. The auto booker does nothing of value for the game. It did nothing of value in EWR because you could book better cards than the CPU was simulating, and considering the the depth surrounding TEW, it would serve no real purpose to the game and make it a greater hassle to auto book than to actually book yourself. Adam's stance hasn't changed and if I were a betting man, would bet on the odds that it won't down the line. The auto booker is obsolete the way TEW operates now.

[Akki]

the point I'm illustrating here is that people who are saying "because they're paying for a game and they want it, they should have it". What if I'm paying for a game and I don't want it. I have just as much right for it not to be included. See how it becomes a double edged sword?

I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I think that whole side of the issue should be dropped. But I still haven't seen anyone giving an example of what Auto Booker would take away from the game.

it would serve no real purpose to the game and make it a greater hassle to auto book than to actually book yourself

Can you explain the logic behind this, because I don't understand how that could be possible.

Now, I understand that "if I don't want it, I don't have to use it". However, I can also say "if you don't want to book so many shows, delete some of them".

For god's sakes, please stop telling people how to play the game. I've seen you and others trying to tell people how to play the game, with comments of "Start over" or "Delete the shows you don't want to book". But let's say you're playing the game the way you normally would. Would having that Auto Booker button there disrupt you so much?

Seriously, how many people actively use the Custom Control for merchandising? I think that the feature is a waste of time. But it's in the game. It caters to people who want to micro-manage. So why have that, and then refuse to have another feature, also optional, that caters to the opposite of micro-management?

[Apupunchau@optonline]

For god's sakes, please stop telling people how to play the game. I've seen you and others trying to tell people how to play the game, with comments of "Start over" or "Delete the shows you don't want to book". But let's say you're playing the game the way you normally would. Would having that Auto Booker button there disrupt you so much?

Yes because making an auto booker that is even semi competent at booking and still won't be better than a person booking. Will take up so much programming time and be such a big addition to the game that better things could be added. Things that add to a book simming instead of trying to turn this into an owner sim. Maybe you can convince Adam into making an owner sim but this isn't it and I certainly don't want it to become one.

Seriously, how many people actively use the Custom Control for merchandising? I think that the feature is a waste of time. But it's in the game. It caters to people who want to micro-manage. So why have that, and then refuse to have another feature, also optional, that caters to the opposite of micro-management?

I agree with you I never use custom merchandise I'm not sure how many people do but again custom merchandise is more an aspect of being an owner than being a booker and I wouldn't really care if he took it out.

[Self]

While I am in principal against the idea of an Auto-Booker, I can see the advantages of having one, if it wouldn't be a lot of work to make. If the game can come up with cards for rival companies, you'd think that it could look at your roster and come up with something. As far as actually giving it orders though, that sounds tricky to program, and frankly, setting it to Auto-Booker is like saying "I'm taking tonight off Booking Team, you guys deal with it". Maybe they'll go with your plans, maybe they won't. That's the risk.

[Akki]

Yes because making an auto booker that is even semi competent at booking and still won't be better than a person booking.

Who ever said it should be better and as good as a person booking? That's completely beside the point, and I think everyone agrees with you on that one. But it should still be able to put on a decent show, which is the whole point of the feature.


Will take up so much programming time and be such a big addition to the game that better things could be added. Things that add to a book simming instead of trying to turn this into an owner sim. Maybe you can convince Adam into making an owner sim but this isn't it and I certainly don't want it to become one.

I will agree that it would take a lot of work to add, as Adam has said. Alright, if this is completely booking sim, how about taking away the ability to hire workers, because that's not part of booking. And negotiating TV deals, that's not a part of booking, either. The game blurs the line between booker and owner so much, anyway. Would another feature that does that really be so horrible?

Going the other way, it's a booking sim. So why not put in an exhibition mode that allows you to book a one off show, kinda like in WreSpi2? It would probably take a fair amount of work to put. I wouldn't play it, but I'm sure some people would, so why not?

I agree with you I never use custom merchandise I'm not sure how many people do but again custom merchandise is more an aspect of being an owner than being a booker and I wouldn't really care if he took it out.

Did you complain when this feature was added, thought? Do you complaint that you have to negotiate contracts and TV and other things, even though a booking sim "should be about booking the shows"?

[Derek B]

For the love of anything that is sane, rational, capable of thought and who can read....

If there was a simple way to make an autobooker, I'm certain Adam would have made one already. As it is, people complain about the AI not being able to book their own shows "properly" or hire "the right people" or a thousand other arguments...

I'm sure as the AI improves for CPU promotions that an autobooker would get closer to completion. But for now, Adam has clearly stated reasons why an autobooker is not a part of TEW. So unless you can come up with feasible ways or logical suggestions on how to implement one, threads like this should be deleted almost on sight.

I'm sick of seeing squabbles about "we should have one" "stop being lazy" "stop telling me what to do" "stop telling ME what to do" breaking out. If I had powers to lock threads, I would already have locked this because its clear that people aren't paying attention to all the information available to them or the game creator himself.

Now...

Breathe in....

Breathe out....

Breathe in deeply...

Breathe out slowly...

With that out the way, I'd like to see suggestions on how to improve the AI booking of the game. Logically, if you can improve that as close to the level of the human booking then the AI would be able to follow instructions and create shows of the kind of level we would expect. We've had some ideas, I'd like to encourage more. If only for my own sanity.

[ringlord59]

I wouldn't want to use AutoBooker all the time, especially not for my main tv program or ppv (if I was running a large promotion), but man it would be great to have it for a "B" show, since I personally use that show for mid & lower card wrestlers and stories. It'd be great to see what an auto head booker option could do with that talent, allowing me to concentrate more on the upper tier.

And actually this isn't that far off from how WWE does it. Each brand has head writers and Vince oversees all brands, interjecting and making suggestions when he deems necessary.

For smaller promotions, where I'm running only a couple of shows a month. I'd never use an AutoBooker.

[Rathen4]

I would use one sparingly - it should simply put main eventers against each other, then upper mids, then mids, then lower mids etc. using the time frames set in the product screen. Sod all the "don't use this guy" nonsense - if you're using an autobooker you forfeit your right to full control over the show.

[Dolfanar]

I think there are two arguments going on here.

First: How do you meaningfully implement an Auto-Booker option. A valid argument with pros and cons on both sides.

My POV: TEW is a game that bogs down HORRIBLY to the point of being unplayable for some after a certain point. I am a HUGE Wrestling fan and hate MMA but I love WMMA and play 1000x more than TEW because I don't need to make it a full time job to get anywhere. An Auto-Booker would allow us to fast forward through some of the grinding portions of TEW.

How would I use it? I would probably let the game book my less important shows. It would be nice if we could edit the show the AI booked, to tweak it to our liking. This would solve the necessity to leave 10,000 special instructions. Did the AI book someone in a singles match that you prefer in Tag. Fix it yourself. If even HALF the card the AI books is reasonable, then that will double the speed of play for me. HUUUUUUGGGGEEE improvement.

Second: You have the people who want to control how other people derive pleasure from a form of entertainment. (WARNING: RANT COMING. PET PEAVE ALERT.) You get intot his ALL the time when talking about unlockables, cheat codes, editors, and in TEW - The Auto-Booker. Personally I think anyone who tries to impose their will as far as game styles is pathetic. Tell you what... you play the game the way YOU want. If things work great the way it is for you then great, I am ECSTATIC for you! Woohoo - Go YOU! You rock! All of you feel good about yourselves? Great. Now piss off. Your play style is being catered to already. Good for you. *IF* enough people want it, and *IF* Adam can think of a way to make it work, how is this going to affect you in the least?

[hakk99]

An autobooker that would be fast and easy to use would be worthless as you'd have so little control over what happens that plans would constantly get ruined and the forum would be flooded with threads about how Adam needs to improve the autobooker because someone's PPV was just ruined when the autobooker put a loss on an important worker.

An autobooker that allowed you to explain what you wanted would be worthless as it'd take as much time to input as actually booking the show. If you aren't terribly concerned with results the only hard part about booking would be angles and the current AI doesn't use angles, as far as I can tell. You should be able to book a B show in a few minutes if you aren't too concerned with storylines or getting your best rating.

So you're asking Adam to either knowingly include a feature that will cause problems and create complaints or devote so much of his time to one new feature that a small number of people want that he will be unable to do much else. If an autobooker slowly develops over the years parallel to general improvements in the AI then so be it, but looking at the AI now adding an autobooker for 08 would mean reinventing the wheel.

[djthefunkchris]

I'd be more with a revamp of the booking screen myself. Mainly, somehow to make the storylines your working on easier to fullfill right. Somehow if we could bring up the storyline, instead of angle or match. Where the storyline would let you know what's next, and possibly what options you have...

For example: You pick the storyline with Wrestler A and B in it. The storyline automatically brings up the fact your on an Angle for the next part of it. A dropdown index is available for what angle's will work with your storyline.

I wish I would have thought of something like this a year ago, to be honest. It just hit me when I was reading the first post in this thread. Even to me, it sounds pretty complicated to be able to put in the next release of the game, unless it's already started.

[Gigas]

Half the reason people want an autobooker is because of the interface.

[dvdWarrior]

The autobooker could be an interesting feature, perhaps it could be set up in a way that the user books a couple of the matches for a show, and could then use the autobooker to complete it or something.

Don't think I'd use it personally, (I like booking, and tbh, I'd like to book my house shows also), but it could come in handy sometimes, I'd imagine.

:)

[bigjabbadudley]

i dont see the point in an autobooler, it kinda defets the purpose of the game to be honest

[Michael Wayne]

I agree with you I never use custom merchandise I'm not sure how many people do but again custom merchandise is more an aspect of being an owner than being a booker and I wouldn't really care if he took it out.

I don't either. I wouldn't miss it. In fact I wouldn't mind if the entire merchandise feature disappeared entirely.

[BurningHamster]

I have only rarely used the custom merchandise feature and honestly I have trouble seeing how it works or if it makes any real difference to sales. I assume it does because as Adam has stated in the past he doesn't add fluff to games, but from a gameplay perspective I'm not sure it works.

At the same time, I think having a merchandise feature is essential. Much of a wrestling promotion's income in the real world comes from merchandise and it's a big part of the industry, but just the current system is a little confusing and you are kind of forced to have a minimum amount spent on producing merchandise every month, and for small promotions it's often more than you make from sales. If I didn't manage to break even on merchandise last month, why am I spending more on merchandise this month instead of just selling last month's left over stock?

I would like to see the merchandise system revamped so that rather than spending so much per month, you can when running a custom merchandise system say .... order 1000 DAVE t-shirts if you are playing as DAVE, 200 Emma Chase posters etc, and hope they sell, which they may not all sell within one month but maybe within a year they might. No monthly payments for more merchandise, you have to pay to produce what you want when you order it and if you don't sell it, tough luck. To me the custom merchandise system just doesn't feel well .... custom enough.

Also, though the idea has been shot down by Adam in the past I think, the ability to create specific videos/dvd's. Whether you want to simply put an event on DVD and sell it or whether you want to make "Best ofs" for certain workers or match types would be awesome.

Sorry for the rant, but Mr. Wayne got me thinking about merchandise.

[Michael Wayne]

you are kind of forced to have a minimum amount spent on producing merchandise every month, and for small promotions it's often more than you make from sales.

I'm sure many of us have had that problem. I don't have any experience with WWE games and so if someone does, maybe they can speak on this, but it seems like if you're running a certain kind of product, it's almost impossible to turn a profit in merchandising. It's like... t-shirts and stuff are made to be like they're some expensive thing to produce when really they're not. Companies buy in bulk and for them, they pay next to nothing for t-shirts. And while they may pay for logos and whatnot to be printed on them, the cost isn't like you or I going to some t-shirt graphics shop and spending $20 for a t-shirt and X amount more to have a design made on it. Realistically if a promotion was losing money every month over merchandise, they wouldn't continue to do it. It's bad financially. And besides, if any of you remember a guy by the name of "Hate" from the old 400 board days, you might remember that "game" he was gonna make. And compared to the concept behind the merc screen, TEW's version can't compete.

[Michael Wayne]

I'd be more with a revamp of the booking screen myself. Mainly, somehow to make the storylines your working on easier to fullfill right. Somehow if we could bring up the storyline, instead of angle or match. Where the storyline would let you know what's next, and possibly what options you have...

For example: You pick the storyline with Wrestler A and B in it. The storyline automatically brings up the fact your on an Angle for the next part of it. A dropdown index is available for what angle's will work with your storyline.

I wish I would have thought of something like this a year ago, to be honest. It just hit me when I was reading the first post in this thread. Even to me, it sounds pretty complicated to be able to put in the next release of the game, unless it's already started.

I liked the suggestion made about being able to drag and drop workers into the match screen rather than having to click and filter and everything else to get who you want on the booking screen. Esp in the case of multi-person matches. If I want to have a match featuring my midcarders, unless I remember the names of everyone I want to use, I have to keep coming back and filtering by midcard every time I add a name.

[Carlito]

I think I've maybe pinpointed my befuddlement at the merchandise feature: it's pretty much the only aspect of the game that is already done for us. Other than the actual crunching of the numbers that thankfully tells us how much we've made/lost without us having to bust out a calculator every week or so, the merchandising tool is about the only thing that's automatic. Think about it: we arrange our own shows top to bottom, we scout our own prospects, we set our own schedules and book our own travel. But when it comes to merchandise, it's a gimme--it's handed to us on a silver platter. We could alter with it if we want, but I think we all have the sense that we'd just be fixing something that probably isn't broken.

Not a knock on the game, but there aren't a lot of optional features in TEW. However, I could see why the merchandising feature should be an exception to that rule. A lot of people play to run wrestling shows, while others still play to run a wrestling BUSINESS and everything involved therein. So, and I think I've mentioned this before, but it might be nice to be able to "turn off" merchandising--that is, either leave it the way it is now, or remove it altogether--or to leave it on and have it be almost completely hands-on, with the player deciding which wrestlers get which merchandise. I personally think it would be really fun to have the merchandising dept. be entirely on my shoulders, but as message board posters have been saying since Al Gore invented this contraption, YMMV. Thus, the on/off option.


Sam!

[Greyhound]

In the case of most indy promotions, merchandise for the wrestlers isn't something they even bother doing, but rather something the specific wrestler handles himself. Sure, the promotion might have one or two promotion-specific t-shirts (for example with the promotion's logo and slogan on it), but a promotion really has to have a certain size for it to really get into the whole merchandise deal.

The only exception really is the tape/DVD department, as quite a few promotions that might not draw that well live try to make up the difference via tape/DVD sales. IWA Mid South and CZW don't even distribute their shows themselves, but rather outsourced it to SmartMark Video, who then handle the taping of the shows and the distribution of the DVDs. This of course also means SmartMark Video gets a cut of the profit, but it also makes the promotion's shows reach a wider audience who otherwise might never come in contact with their product.

Also, as a side note: It always bothered me, that in the music department, you either had the promotion using in-house productions or actual contracted bands when, in reality, most promotions just use copyrighted music without permission from the copyrighter. Maybe it could be implemented that this is possible to use music for free, as long as your promotion doesn't have TV, as this seems to be where legal trouble could occur:)

[Akki]

Also, as a side note: It always bothered me, that in the music department, you either had the promotion using in-house productions or actual contracted bands when, in reality, most promotions just use copyrighted music without permission from the copyrighter. Maybe it could be implemented that this is possible to use music for free, as long as your promotion doesn't have TV, as this seems to be where legal trouble could occur:)

They still have to cut it out of their DVDs though. PWG does all their ring announcements boxing-style, with all the wrestlers in the ring, so they can cut out the entrances with the music.

Hell, even WWE replaced Enter Sandman on the ONS 2005 DVD because they didn't want to pay royalties. But I doubt PWG's "production department" could do that.

[Greyhound]

They still have to cut it out of their DVDs though. PWG does all their ring announcements boxing-style, with all the wrestlers in the ring, so they can cut out the entrances with the music.

Hell, even WWE replaced Enter Sandman on the ONS 2005 DVD because they didn't want to pay royalties. But I doubt PWG's "production department" could do that.

That does seem to vary quite a bit, though, as IWA Mid South, CZW, and every other indy taped and distributed by SmartMark Video has complete entrances with music and BALLYHOO~!
Even Ring of Honor, who tape and distribute their DVDs themselves, have entrance music.

I just figured, that it would be pretty easy to keep in check: If you're a small, struggling indy, it might be a nice way to cut costs, however, as long as you keep using music that you aren't legally allowed to use, TV and PPV is unobtainable for you. I think that gives people a choice that is quite realistic.

[djthefunkchris]

/nod, copyright matter's tons. You can't sell anything, show anything, etc. without the rights to what your using. Heck, you even need an Ascap liscense to have a jukebox (or even a radio) in a public place (resturante, wrestling arena). This changes when it's a "PRIVATE" party. Meaning, you sure can rent out a room and do what you want there without the liscense fee... When you add that "Cover Charge" everything changes.

[Greyhound]

/nod, copyright matter's tons. You can't sell anything, show anything, etc. without the rights to what your using. Heck, you even need an Ascap liscense to have a jukebox (or even a radio) in a public place (resturante, wrestling arena). This changes when it's a "PRIVATE" party. Meaning, you sure can rent out a room and do what you want there without the liscense fee... When you add that "Cover Charge" everything changes.

Well, I guess it's usually due to the fact that almost every indy promotion in the world falls completely under the radar. This, of course, changes as soon as Television gets involved and it's available to a wider audience than just whatever group of wrestling fans your promotion is catering to.

[Michael Wayne]

That does seem to vary quite a bit, though, as IWA Mid South, CZW, and every other indy taped and distributed by SmartMark Video has complete entrances with music and BALLYHOO~!
Even Ring of Honor, who tape and distribute their DVDs themselves, have entrance music.


smartmark is a wrestling oriented website. They don't distribute dvds nationally in chain stores like Walmart. SHIMMER for example has national distribution. However, dvds carried by RoH (and sold on their website) are sold with entrances. Retail dvds are sold without the entrances. The RoH store operates on the same premise smartmark does. Which is why they sell competing items and items owned by WWE. However, RoH has national distribution (same company that distributes SHIMME and that did the Hardcore Homecoming dvd) and thus unless I'm mistaken, RoH dvds are edited as well.

[mitsukaikira]

For the love of anything that is sane, rational, capable of thought and who can read....

If there was a simple way to make an autobooker, I'm certain Adam would have made one already. As it is, people complain about the AI not being able to book their own shows "properly" or hire "the right people" or a thousand other arguments...

I'm sure as the AI improves for CPU promotions that an autobooker would get closer to completion. But for now, Adam has clearly stated reasons why an autobooker is not a part of TEW. So unless you can come up with feasible ways or logical suggestions on how to implement one, threads like this should be deleted almost on sight.

I'm sick of seeing squabbles about "we should have one" "stop being lazy" "stop telling me what to do" "stop telling ME what to do" breaking out. If I had powers to lock threads, I would already have locked this because its clear that people aren't paying attention to all the information available to them or the game creator himself.

Now...

Breathe in....

Breathe out....

Breathe in deeply...

Breathe out slowly...

With that out the way, I'd like to see suggestions on how to improve the AI booking of the game. Logically, if you can improve that as close to the level of the human booking then the AI would be able to follow instructions and create shows of the kind of level we would expect. We've had some ideas, I'd like to encourage more. If only for my own sanity.

I'm curious as to why there's still a question after this.