Legendary matches

[hakk99]

Particularly when using a product based heavily on in-ring skill, there comes a point when putting on an A* match becomes a quite ordinary occurrence. It's still fun to see which match will win MOTY or to see if you can top your previous best match but a lot of the excitement is lost from the early years of building up your company.

When reading about the history of the Cornellverse, either at the website or in the bios, there are frequent mentions of legendary matches, some of which changed the wrestling world or at least a wrestler's career forever. It would be fun if it was possible to replicate these events in your own game. I'd love to have one more grade level for matches, something very high and difficult to reach without perfect buildup, great wrestlers, a well-booked card, and a little luck. If this was merely a cosmetic change I'd be perfectly happy with it as it would help me differentiate between an outstanding main event that gets an A* and a lower card tag match I just threw together at the last minute that gets an A*, but if it also triggered some sort of shift in the wrestling industry or in a wrestler's career, that'd be even better.

[Eisen-verse]

I love this idea. It would have to be VERY difficult to get this kind of outcome, but it would be really cool to have a listing in the database of some of the "Legendary matches" that have gone on. I also love the idea of these matches changing the course of someone's career.

I don't know if it would be possible for the database to remember all of these and put them in a place where you could view them, but it would be a great advancement to bringing the Cornellverse to life.

[James Casey]

Thinking about this, it would be an excellent little side - a once in a career thing that might never happen to 95% of the workers in the game. An example might be the Shawn/Razor ladder match at WMX, which transitioned Michaels up the card, or the three way ladder match at WM16 - or even Kane's début in the HiaC match between Michaels and Taker, which was an instance of a début justifying the hype that preceded it.

[rodzillahotrod]

yea but debuts happens to many times really i do think this whole thing is a great idea but the debut is kinda hard to do in this game because everytime u put a guy that hasn't appered in ur show yet in to a angle it acts like he already debuted...

[Gigas]

Considering A* matches can seriously raise the popularity of a wrestler (win or lose), I'd imagine legendary matches could hugely alter a wrestlers career path. Great Idea by the way.

[MVP!]

This is a great idea, and it would add a lot more depth to the game and the C-Verse itself, I hope this is considered as an addition to TEW 2008.

[praguepride]

What happens if you grind a few wrestlers (*cough*Stones*cough*) together and start producing legendary matches left and right? I think A* matches are supposed to be that way anyway, I mean they're what, top 4% of match quality? I suppose you could make a "legendary" match a 99-100% match quality, but still I could imagine that someone really knowledgeable with TEW could start pumping out legendary matches left and right...

[Sudo_Nym]

That's my concern, too. Legendary matches seem like an awesome idea; I just want there to also be a way to prevent exploiting them.

[Blackman]

No, A*-matches might supposed to be doing that, but they appear way too frequently for the player to fulfill that function. The matches are indeed very unfrequent in the game world, but the average player has some A*-matches a month, the great player even has one every week (considering they play with a cult+promotion with good talent) .

So imo the match slider needs to be reset so that in fact only 99% (perhaps 98%?) will give an A* match, or the conditions should at least improve.

[hakk99]

To make legendary matches truly special I would first set a very high floor -say 99% but then once a match actually reached that level I'd add a dice roll (or whatever the programming equivalent is) so that even if two guys are capable of frequent great matches you'd still never know when that legendary one would show up and alter your booking forever.

I was thinking of the Michaels/Ramon ladder match when I thought of this as well as the Nemesis/Cornell bloodbath from the Cornellverse (though I don't know if that was actually a great match or just a bloody one). Both, it seems, drastically altered the careers of at least one of the participants but also changed the expectations of future crowds.

[Fail]

Or maybe making a whole different rating instead of A*, we could have L which would mean legendary? It would give us a better idea of what was 'Legendary' then A*, plus we would have something different.

[falling_star]

To make legendary matches truly special I would first set a very high floor -say 99% but then once a match actually reached that level I'd add a dice roll (or whatever the programming equivalent is) so that even if two guys are capable of frequent great matches you'd still never know when that legendary one would show up and alter your booking forever.

I like this idea, the 'dice roll' after achieving the high requirements because it would be fairly easy from a programming point of view (with what little bit I know of programming anyway). A number would be picked at random, then the 'dice roll' which would have to be come up within a few digits (say within 1 on a 97, within 3 on a 98, within 6 on a 99 and within 8 on a 100+).

Not sure how it should actually effect the game; perhaps it could add modifiers to the Destiny stat of the workers involved. Perhaps a veteran worker achieves a legendary match but it causes his skills to become peak and start a decline (although with a boost to Respect/Momentum/Popularity). . . a worker who manages to achieve a legendary match with a low Destiny stat could have a positive modifier added to it (a large temporary modifier, and a modest permanent modifier).

Maybe the wrestling industry could go into an upswing after a legendary match, the hype after the match bringing in more viewers.

Another idea would be that wrestlers involved must meet a certain criteria before being considered; the system thus far discussed still allows for the occasional dark match flub at a legenedary match. So maybe the workers involved need to be of a certain popularity, or involved in a storyline with a high amount of heat and both workers with good momentum (I'd say between B and A*).

Just adding some ideas, I like this concept a lot.

[Phantom Stranger]

I like this idea, the 'dice roll' after achieving the high requirements because it would be fairly easy from a programming point of view (with what little bit I know of programming anyway). A number would be picked at random, then the 'dice roll' which would have to be come up within a few digits (say within 1 on a 97, within 3 on a 98, within 6 on a 99 and within 8 on a 100+).

Not sure how it should actually effect the game; perhaps it could add modifiers to the Destiny stat of the workers involved. Perhaps a veteran worker achieves a legendary match but it causes his skills to become peak and start a decline (although with a boost to Respect/Momentum/Popularity). . . a worker who manages to achieve a legendary match with a low Destiny stat could have a positive modifier added to it (a large temporary modifier, and a modest permanent modifier).

Maybe the wrestling industry could go into an upswing after a legendary match, the hype after the match bringing in more viewers.

Another idea would be that wrestlers involved must meet a certain criteria before being considered; the system thus far discussed still allows for the occasional dark match flub at a legenedary match. So maybe the workers involved need to be of a certain popularity, or involved in a storyline with a high amount of heat and both workers with good momentum (I'd say between B and A*).

Just adding some ideas, I like this concept a lot.

This I like, definitely. Also locking it out of dark match possibility.

[James Casey]

It's the Hogan/Andre factor - the match that pushed Hogan from superstar to megastar was the truly dire contest between the two at WM3. In terms of match quality, it was awful, saved only from Worst MOTN status by a lot of the undercard, but the build up and hype surrounding it, the turning of Andre, the failed slams and eventually successful slam... All these added together to enter one legendary match.

You could even enter a factor that says it can only be acheived by workers at a certian level - too popular/talented and it won't have any significant effect on their stats, as was the case with Andre.

A worker's stats are, of course, going to play into the match. Someone with too low skills is never going to get near a legendary match normally, but say for the sake of argument that ten guys in a Royal Rumble all gelled to make the match an L grade - the other twenty guys are just their, so the contribution to the match should play a part as well.

Of course, coverage of the match is going to affect how much of an effect a match has, as well as industry status, business level... All the things that affect matches and popularity growth as well.

Looking back, a few examples of Legendary matches would be:
Hogan/Andre at WM3 (Hogan gets the rub)
Sting/Flair at Clash of the Champions in '89 (Sting goes 45 minutes with Flair and becomes an instant main eventer)
Michaels/Ramon ladder match at WMX (Michaels gets the rub)
Austin/Hart at WM13 (Austin gets the rub)
Triangle ladder match at WM16 (Hardys & E&C get the rub, Dudleys somewhat but less so)

MITB at WM21 could be argued, with Edge getting the win and the rub. But then, it could also be argued that it was one more step for him, and not the make-or-break factor in his ascension to the top of the tree.

[EricAdams]

I love this. This and a hall of fame along with year end awards and top 100 which are already in place would just add to the depth and history of the C-Verse, especially game to game where a player can see the world grow around him.

[hrdcoresidebrns]

Just a thought here, as this is already a great idea, but what about the possibility of a legendary show. A legendary match seems as though it would nearly guarantee an A* show, so why not have a legendary event stat as well to give players another goal to achieve? Obviously a stat increase to the promotion's popularity and prestige would occur, but also perhaps a bonus to the user character's booking stats as well? Just throwing it out there, feel free to throw it back. :D

[Phantom Stranger]

Just a thought here, as this is already a great idea, but what about the possibility of a legendary show. A legendary match seems as though it would nearly guarantee an A* show, so why not have a legendary event stat as well to give players another goal to achieve? Obviously a stat increase to the promotion's popularity and prestige would occur, but also perhaps a bonus to the user character's booking stats as well? Just throwing it out there, feel free to throw it back. :D

Thing is, we can name a lot of legendary matches. Beyond Wrestlemania I - legendary mostly in hindsight for recreating the industry - I can't think of a legendary event.

[James Casey]

The first King of the Super Juniors springs to mind - although, off hand, I can't remember if that was a show or a series of shows, so apparently not that legendary... :D

[hulkamaniac]

I think you could incorporate it and have a legendary match give a guy a huge boost in popularity and momentum. Flair/Sting at Clash of Champions (I think was the name of the event) made Sting a big name in wrestling and was a legendary match. The counterpart would be matches that are legendary in an awful sense. The Jackie Gayda match where she botched every single spot (sometimes more than once) was legendary in the sense that people never took her seriously as a ring worker after that. It hurt her popularity and momentum in a big way.

[EricAdams]

I think you could incorporate it and have a legendary match give a guy a huge boost in popularity and momentum. Flair/Sting at Clash of Champions (I think was the name of the event) made Sting a big name in wrestling and was a legendary match. The counterpart would be matches that are legendary in an awful sense. The Jackie Gayda match where she botched every single spot (sometimes more than once) was legendary in the sense that people never took her seriously as a ring worker after that. It hurt her popularity and momentum in a big way.

I could see this but I can't imagine it happen much. Besides having a retired announcer vs. a referee or something, it's hard to even get an F- match, let alone go even lower.