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SadisticBlessings
02-23-2008, 04:59 PM
Okay, so here's the deal:

Watching and moderating mafia games for so long has instilled in me a few core beliefs, one of which is that there is no good source for information on high level play anywhere on the net. Mafiascum's strategy section is bereft of actual information which can be applied to a broad range of games, and as they're essentially the entire written knowledge base on the subject I'm a bit curious as to how new players are expected to understand the fine points of the game outside of playing (and being battered and humiliated) until they learn it. Virtually all of their strategy articles deal with basic beginner game builds, specifically 9-player games and some variants thereof.

As such, I wanted to create a series of articles which would help to educate new players on the things one picks up after some time in the trenches - but moreover, I wanted to create a thread on GDS where mafia players can freely talk about the strategies that extend from one game to another. Strategic discourse is common within game threads, of course, but what about games that will occur in the future? Considering the dearth of information on the game (particularly on large-scale games, which are common on GDS and extremely difficult for new players), I think any advice or knowledge which any community members contribute would be most appreciated.

Now, as to the thread title - my next post within the thread will be a short article I recently wrote which I hope will be the beginning of a series which I'll post in this thread over time. Though in a sense they're meant as hype and preparation for my own upcoming game (GDS Mafia, appropriately enough), the strategies discussed within will be applicable to every game which follows basic mafia formats. Hopefully this not only helps some new players learn the game quicker and enjoy themselves more, but also creates a decent reservoir of information and place for intermediate and advanced players to discuss their own strategies and experiences in depth.

There isn't a general "Mafia" discussion thread on GDS, aside from the list of moderators (which isn't all that active). This thread could serve that purpose, perhaps, if there's enough interest to keep discussion going.

As to my article, it's basically the first in a series which will compile a list of "Do's" and "Dont's" for mafia players (town or mafia aligned). It's a bit long, though hopefully anyone who reads it will come away with a few bits of insight. It's essentially meant for newer players looking to understand some of the lesser-known points of interaction within the game, though I'd also love reviews from any experienced players as well. Naturally, since this is only the first, the series can be altered and shaped depending on feedback.

SadisticBlessings
02-23-2008, 05:00 PM
Speaking from experience, I can say with complete certainty that the mafia community on the GDS boards has grown at an alarming rate since the first CornellVerse Mafia game started up. This popularity explosion can be attributed to many different sources; naturally the game itself is a draw, but we also have an excellent, well-prepared community of dedicated and enthusiastic players, a host of shockingly talented new moderators, and some unique game themes that have held the players interest over the course of many, many hours.

So we know why mafia is popular, and we know why people play. But that still begs the question: how exactly does one play mafia properly?

As this year’s Scummie Awards showed, there are definitely certain players who stand out head and shoulders above the rest – but why? What makes players like Undertaker666, Wallbanger, theoutlaw321 and derek_b so formidable, and why do others earn reputations for hindering their side’s performance regardless of alignment? What makes a player a strategic threat in this game, and what qualities are necessary to survive until the bitter end?

This “series,” as I’d call it, based on a format frequently used at Reality News Online, will attempt to summarize the events of the first ten mafia games this community has been through and leave players with a good understanding of what every successful GDS mafia player should know going into a new game of mafia. I think it goes without saying, of course, that a base familiarity with the game itself is recommended before reading.

Also, please note that while the series, over time, is meant to anatomize all the aspects of a good mafia player, not all of them will be included in every article. Indeed, for the moment I’ll be foregoing things like learning the common tells and vote pattern analysis and instead focus on a more simplistic topic: namely, how to BEHAVE in a game of mafia such that you give yourself the best chances of success.

Naturally there is a significant difference in play style between town and mafia aligned players, which will be highlighted along the way.

And so, without further ado…

What GDS Mafia Players Should Have Learned – A Retrospective
Part I: CornellVerse Mafia 1.0

To begin our exploration of what makes up a successful mafia player, we’ll have to go back... way back, to the very first game we witnessed on this forum. Our most reliable source of knowledge is the past, of course, and so our first task is to attempt to understand the underlying lessons we should have picked up in each particular game of mafia we’ve seen on the GDS boards up to this point. This should help to crystallize some of the key points each game brought up in terms of overall gameplay, and aid in constructing something of a "master list" of mafia strategy by the time the series is through.

The very first CornellVerse Mafia game taught us quite a few things, but several must be taken with a grain of salt due to the fact that almost all of the participants were new to the game – for instance, there was very little in the way of establishing common tells in the first CornellVerse Mafia, and as such they will be left out of the discussion for now. Nonetheless, this game taught us many valuable lessons, but there was one thing that stood out most of all: how to survive to the end of a mafia game as a town aligned player. Undertaker666, mjdgoldeneye, and mad5226 were all able to survive until the end for the same reason: in spite of whatever reasoning they brought to the table, they were all unknown variables.

Despite inexperience, the two mafia groups in CV Mafia understood that a proven town-aligned player (whether by investigation or roleclaim) is far more dangerous to their quest for dominance than someone few other townies would trust. Undertaker666 understood this concept from the very beginning of the game, and played accordingly – he invited the suspicion. Rather than roleclaiming or asking for investigation to prove his alignment, ‘taker did the opposite: though his logic and suggestions were all in the town’s best interests, he did his best to APPEAR scummy. Indeed, though it was often his logic that broke mafia families, neither bothered to attack him through the very end due to his untrustworthy nature. By the time the entire town was informed that he was CornellVerse aligned, it was too late to do anything about it.

The same could be said for mad5226, who was absent throughout a great deal of the game and posted, at best, sporadically. In a more seasoned game of mafia I would venture a guess that mad would have been lynched much earlier, but that’s largely irrelevant to this discussion; the point is, mad was allowed to survive until the end because neither mafia group considered him threatening in terms of leadership or participation. Interestingly enough, what they SHOULD have been concerned about was his powerful role: a double voter, one of the most dangerous opponents a mafia group can face in the final stretches of the game.

In mjdgoldeneye’s case the subject is a bit more complex. One could argue that his alignment to the town was obvious thanks to his use of night facts, while others might say that the night facts themselves were primarily things a mafia aligned player would already know, and thus made him appear scummy. All that matters is that in the end Arrows considered him suspicious enough to finger as a Mafioso, while the rest of the town believed his roleclaim and won because of it. This brings up an interesting part of this lesson: even if your power appears potentially scummy, attempts to openly aid the town will usually keep you from being lynched.

Of course, the case of the final survivor, Wallbanger, was a special one for whom special mention must be made. As a PGO Wallbanger was completely invincible, and played the part perfectly: once his roleclaim was believed by everyone, he was free to play out in the open as a town leader. This strategy is completely valid, and its full utilization by a new player was enough to earn Wallbanger the distinction of being named the first mafia MVP on the GDS forums.

As a corollary to the revelation of how to survive as a town aligned player, of course, we also learned in CornellVerse Mafia how to fail as a mafia aligned player. Several of the mafia aligned players in this game died due to poor luck, in some cases due to investigations or targeting the PGO. One obvious example of a classic losing mafia don strategy, however, was Sensai of Mattitude, who failed in this game partly through no actual fault of his own. Sensai’s loss stemmed from a string of inactivity throughout the mid to late game, followed by an extended absence from the boards entirely during a vacation. Inactivity is one of the biggest motivating factors during late, uninformed lynches, and Sensai’s mafia family failed largely due to his inability to defend himself. Indeed, surviving just one more day phase would have won the game for his group.

The other example of a losing strategy for a mafia aligned player was Arrows, who despite playing a fantastic game failed to see it through to the end. Though much of his loss can be attributed to the absence of his don, Sensai’s death should not have been an automatic loss for him. Arrows’ death was caused, in the end, by a high-risk roleclaim made in an effort to avert Sensai’s death for another night. For those of you unfamiliar with that particular endgame, the roleclaim was along the lines of Arrows being an investigator, and he revealed that Sensai and mjdgoldeneye were the final two mafia members, with mjd as the don.

Sensai was lynched, revealed to be the don, and the remaining townies realized Arrows’s claim was false and strung him up as well.

At the time, the roleclaim made sense. Keep Sensai alive for one more day phase, and with a mis-lynch of mjd Arrows would be free to kill mad5226 during the night phase and win the game. Indeed, the suggestion of this strategy as a possibility to the town would not have hurt him. It was his extensive roleclaim, which virtually guaranteed his ouster if Sensai were lynched first, that did him in.

And so, from the first game of mafia on the GDS forums, we learned the answers to the question, “how does one lose as a mafia aligned player?”

Mafia aligned players lose by not being active enough in the town’s thought processes. Failure to contribute generates suspicion in your peers, and fear that you may be attempting to just “coast through the game” will eventually surface. If you want to succeed as a mafia aligned player, you should endeavor to be as active as the average town aligned player in your particular game.

Arrows followed that rule, and he still didn’t win the game. This leads to the second point we’ve learned: Mafia aligned players lose by bluffing, and virtually daring the townies to go against them. Creating a false roleclaim is an art form, and not to be taken lightly; any roleclaim with the remotest possibility of being proven false by anything short of an investigation WILL eventually be proven false by a good town, guaranteed.

Many other rules for advanced players were witnessed in the first CornellVerse Mafia. A shining example of a rookie mistake, and one which should definitely be avoided, is that pitfall of assuming a moderator will model his game around a particular format. Perhaps the towns’ biggest mistake during the game were the deaths of TheEdgeOfReason and i effin rule, who were a pair of town aligned siblings with a mason ability.

When it was revealed that the two were siblings, the apparent consensus of the town was that one of the two must be mafia aligned – it said so on mafiascum’s wiki, of course, so it must be true!

Moderators often change rules specifically to avoid players from using this kind of obvious logic, in order to challenge the players. The rules of one game are often very different from those of another, and making assumptions based on anything taken from outside of the game itself frequently causes trouble. This still happens, and occurred as recently as in Rocky & Bullwinkle Mafia (the players were confounded by the fact that the Don came up mafia if investigated while the hitman did not, which led to the death of their investigator).

Another lesson learned in this particular game was the importance of patience. The primary example of this in the game, one which has stood out in my mind for some time, was the speed lynching of The Aussie. In this particular game The Aussie was an FBI Agent searching for the serial killer, and was lynched without ever being given a chance to speak in his own defense (due to the time differences). This put the town in a terrible position, with one potential investigator down early.

The issue here is that even by forcing a roleclaim, The Aussie would at least have been killed during the night phase and given the town another chance to try to lynch a baddie while saving another innocent from the knife that night. Thus, it’s generally advisable to allow the lynchee a chance at a last minute roleclaim if they’re not already proven scum to a reasonable degree. Investigators in particular should roleclaim before being lynched, revealing any information they’ve obtained up to that point and accepting their fate the next night.

The final thing we learned from the original CornellVerse Mafia was, ironically enough, the danger of roleclaiming. Throughout this game perhaps more than any other roleclaimers were being killed off at a rapid rate, with panix04 (who roleclaimed BLZ Bubb, Vigilante), machinesxe (who roleclaimed Shawn Gonzalez, Miller), Mr T Jobs To Me (who roleclaimed Buddy Garner, Bulletproof) and joose2001 (who roleclaimed Bryan Vessey, Survivor) all eliminated in short order after revealing their roles. Why? Because unlike the survivors, this group openly stated their alignment and made themselves very obvious targets. Panix was first, gone because the character he claimed is a villain within the context of the game world. Machinesxe met his end once the mafia realized his usefulness in creating chaos had waned and the entire town knew of his alignment. Mr T Jobs To Me was strung up because nobody bought his roleclaim, unwilling to compromise in their belief that someone who works in Japan (despite being North American) would be included in the game. Finally, joose2001 was killed, on his birthday, within days of surviving (and therefore winning) because he was considered too widely trusted to be left alive. While later games showed us how roleclaiming can indeed work when the entire town does it, this game in particular demonstrated the danger involved in such an act.

So in a nutshell, what did we learn during our first foray into the world of mafia? To begin our list, I've boiled down the lessons learned in this article into seven points:

1. You win as a town aligned player by offering your knowledge without overplaying your hand. If you want to live until the end of a game, neither the town nor the mafia should ever know everything you know.

2. You lose as a town aligned player by revealing too much, which makes you too trustworthy and therefore a threat to the mafia groups. Roleclaiming is an invitation for disaster unless you’re a PGO or bulletproof.

3. You also lose as a town aligned player by revealing too much, when what you’re revealing isn’t believed. This is another risk of roleclaiming, as the risk of lynch is high if anything which conflicts with your claim comes up.

4. You lose as a mafia aligned player by being inactive and therefore suspicious, as we saw in the case of Sensai of Mattitude. This strategy is capable of getting a player near the mid-game, but will never pull someone through to the end against a seasoned town.

5. You also lose as a mafia aligned player if you make a roleclaim which can potentially be proven false. No amount of wit or candor will save you if your duplicity is ever revealed, as shown in the case of Arrows.

6. You risk losing as a town by making baseless assumptions about the setup of the game, attempting to judge either the moderator’s preferences or roles the theme would allow. Oftentimes moderators tweak the roles or the rules slightly to account for this tactic.

7. You risk losing as a town by not giving those about to be lynched even one opportunity to defend themselves due to impatience. Remember that a roleclaimed investigator is still a degree better than a dead investigator, and an excellent invitation for watchers and doctors.

A pretty solid start for a single game, and some lessons that several players obviously took to heart (as we learned in the very next game). These points are among the most elementary one might come across, and something that every new player should endeavor to understand before they make a single post in a game thread. Nonetheless, we've seen players fall into these same traps time and time again since the point when some of us first had this revelation. In being forewarned of these dangers, hopefully we'll see their occurrence rate fall in future games!

Join me next time as I walk us through CornellVerse Mafia 2.0, another interesting lesson on how a town can win (convincingly) and how a mafia family can lose (horribly) - until then, take care!

mjdgoldeneye
02-23-2008, 05:03 PM
Good idea!

I'm a good example of how to win as a faction, how to lose as a townie, and how to find and target the PGO on night 1...! :D

Akki
02-23-2008, 05:06 PM
I'd love something that actually explained what the whole mafia crap is all about, for people like me that may have totally missed it.

Midnightnick
02-23-2008, 05:14 PM
I hope you analyze VG Mafia. Your thoughts should be interesting.

nZane
02-23-2008, 05:17 PM
I had thought about either suggesting or doing something like this myself, but laziness overwhelmed me. :p I don't think I could have done it the justice that you'll do anyways, SB.

SadisticBlessings
02-23-2008, 05:18 PM
I'd love something that actually explained what the whole mafia crap is all about, for people like me that may have totally missed it.

Well, mafiascum's description can be a little bit vague at times, so here's a general rules post to get you an idea of how the game works. This is exactly what the first players on this forum were given to work with when we started.

HOW TO PLAY:

- All players have been PM’d a role, and your alignment (either Town Aligned or Mafia Aligned). The objective is to eliminate all members of the opposing alignment from the game.

- Each player has been given a role with their own special ability. Your PM will explain what it does, if you are meant to know. You don’t have to reveal what your role is to the other players, nor will I do so in my updates. Then again there is nothing to stop you, so if you feel that it may help prove your innocence, go ahead – just keep in mind that this could also backfire and help the mafia. Likewise, you may lie about who you are if you wish. If you want to use your abilities, PM me. DO NOT post it in the thread.

- The game is split into two phases, Day and Night. The game begins during the day, and all players (Mafia and Townie alike) post in the thread, deciding who to kill off. Lynching is the only way for the Townies to kill the Mafia, so be sure to examine voting patterns of your fellow players. I might also provide clues in the death write ups, but over-reliance on those is ill-advised as some may be traps.

- All voting and discussion is to occur within the thread. Town aligned players may discuss who they think is Mafia, and Mafia members should be trying to bluff/convince/blend in, and generally try not to get voted for. To vote, post Vote: Username (in bold, so it’s easier to count). You can also change your vote, by typing Change Vote: Username. You can also choose to vote for No Lynching. You must post in the thread for you vote to be counted. You can also abstain from voting, which means I just do not include you in the number crunching.

- Elimination occurs after 48 hours, or whenever a person obtains more than 50% of the vote. In case of a tie, the latest vote will be discounted, until the tie is broken. Once a person dies, I will reveal their alignment and role.

- Night falls after somebody is executed. During this time, the Mafia can discuss who they want to kill next (using whatever form of communication appeals to them) – if anyone at all. Abilities are also used during this time. To use an ability, PM me, and I’ll PM you the outcome of the ability. If it is something serious like somebody getting killed, I will update it in the thread. If possible though, try to PM me what you want to do as soon after night falls as possible to keep things moving along at a quick pace. Once the Mafia has decided, it is up to the Mafia Don to tell me who he wants dead. If the Mafia Don dies, a new one is appointed.

- Night ends once I post who gets killed, and the cycle repeats itself. The Town wins if all Mafia members are dead, and vice versa. Remember, this is a team effort, so if you think sacrificing someone may help your cause, go ahead.

-Remember, some roles such as investigators and protectors are more valuable to the town – so try to keep them alive!

Don't know how much that helps, but if you read it and look through some of the past games on here it should help clear things up. It's a pretty simple game, once you get past the fact that we regularly get over 2,000 posts per game. :p

mjdgoldeneye
02-23-2008, 05:21 PM
I hope you analyze VG Mafia. Your thoughts should be interesting.

I want to see what an outsider has to say about my RWC game... That was pretty fun to run, and if I had been available to finish modding/someone told me it wasn't "ended", I'd have given it a good finale! (CC didn't have an ending, but it was on the road to ruin from the start anyway! :p )

Akki
02-23-2008, 06:48 PM
Thanks, SB. That did help out. I think I'll join the next one. Which will be when?

Wallbanger
02-23-2008, 06:53 PM
We have not run concurrent games so far, so it will be shortly after the current game ends. Once the current game is a little further along, SB will post a sign up thread.

Self
02-23-2008, 07:25 PM
Very nice article. Good read.

Antithesis
02-23-2008, 07:56 PM
Thanks, SB. That did help out. I think I'll join the next one. Which will be when?

You'll be signing up for a game that has the potential of being the best ever run here. Theme wise its rather popular, and will be modded by two of the best.

Derek B
02-23-2008, 10:34 PM
w00t! I'm formidable! :cool:

This could be a great thread for newcomers and veterans alike, it really could. A few lessons on how to better protect yourself could certainly come in handy for some players. It's the downfall of some players almost every time. :)

BIGJOSH
02-24-2008, 12:17 AM
Really nice article SB.

DreamGoddessLindsey
02-24-2008, 12:29 AM
What did I learn?

Well, for one, I learned that some people can be just mean.

For two, I learned the only way to survive is to not be useful.

Lastly, I learned that the game is not quite as fun as I thought it would be.

Undertaker666
02-24-2008, 12:44 AM
What did I learn?

Well, for one, I learned that some people can be just mean.

For two, I learned the only way to survive is to not be useful.

Lastly, I learned that the game is not quite as fun as I thought it would be.

I have to admit that I thought it was a little harsh that you were killed during the first night phase of your very first game.

It is a fun game but it's a shame that you weren't given the chance to discover that for yourself.

theoutlaw321
02-24-2008, 12:54 AM
What did I learn?

Well, for one, I learned that some people can be just mean.

For two, I learned the only way to survive is to not be useful.

Lastly, I learned that the game is not quite as fun as I thought it would be.

Mean? The nature of the game as in any is to win. You accomplish that however means necessary.

There is a fine line to be played.

Fun is what you make it.

DreamGoddessLindsey
02-24-2008, 01:18 AM
Mean? The nature of the game as in any is to win. You accomplish that however means necessary.

There is a fine line to be played.

Fun is what you make it.

When the game is over, you'll understand just why I'm so ticked off.

Antithesis
02-24-2008, 01:20 AM
What did I learn?

Well, for one, I learned that some people can be just mean.

For two, I learned the only way to survive is to not be useful.

Lastly, I learned that the game is not quite as fun as I thought it would be.

Ahh you caught a bad break is all. personally, if I were Mafia or an SK i wouldn't have killed you as you did seem a little suspect coming out so strong day 1.

And I certainly wouldn't have killed a newbie right off the bat either. Makes me think your killer is a fellow newcomer as well.

You seem to have good instincts for a townie, I'd ask that maybe you just chalk this one up to bad luck and try again in the next one. Some people have bad luck, like Warrior, who has died the first or second day the last few games.

Astil
02-24-2008, 01:21 AM
Wait, wasn't I don game 1?

DreamGoddessLindsey
02-24-2008, 01:28 AM
Ahh you caught a bad break is all. personally, if I were Mafia or an SK i wouldn't have killed you as you did seem a little suspect coming out so strong day 1.

And I certainly wouldn't have killed a newbie right off the bat either. Makes me think your killer is a fellow newcomer as well.

You seem to have good instincts for a townie, I'd ask that maybe you just chalk this one up to bad luck and try again in the next one. Some people have bad luck, like Warrior, who has died the first or second day the last few games.

Like I said, once the game is over, you'll see why I'm so ticked off and demoralized.

I doubt I'll ever be that active or helpful again if I play more games. That and I'll prolly have tunnel vision for several games if I do.

SadisticBlessings
02-24-2008, 01:30 AM
Wait, wasn't I don game 1?

You and Sensai were the two dons; you as Tommy Cornell Jr., him as Richard Eisen. I didn't mention you or the nWWo specifically as a "lesson" per se, mostly because your mafia's being revealed was at least partially due to mistakenly targeting the PGO even though he had already claimed. But yeah, you were one of 'em. I just chose the ones I did because they sent a really clear message about the basic strategies you tend to see in mafia games, whereas you guys lost in a slightly more complicated fashion. :D

Astil
02-24-2008, 01:35 AM
You and Sensai were the two dons; you as Tommy Cornell Jr., him as Richard Eisen. I didn't mention you or the nWWo specifically as a "lesson" per se, mostly because your mafia's being revealed was at least partially due to mistakenly targeting the PGO even though he had already claimed. But yeah, you were one of 'em. I just chose the ones I did because they sent a really clear message about the basic strategies you tend to see in mafia games, whereas you guys lost in a slightly more complicated fashion. :D

Okay. I don't feel snubbed, just wanted to make sure I didn't lose my f'n mind. Since your looking back, are you keeping stats like times mafia or times won or anything?

Astil
02-24-2008, 01:36 AM
Like I said, once the game is over, you'll see why I'm so ticked off and demoralized.

I doubt I'll ever be that active or helpful again if I play more games. That and I'll prolly have tunnel vision for several games if I do.

Talk to Anti about dissapointing 1st games. Sorry about that, guy.

SadisticBlessings
02-24-2008, 01:40 AM
Okay. I don't feel snubbed, just wanted to make sure I didn't lose my f'n mind. Since your looking back, are you keeping stats like times mafia or times won or anything?

Heh... well, don't wanna give anything away too soon, but yeah. You can probably expect something along those lines when GDS Mafia rolls around. :p

Antithesis
02-24-2008, 01:47 AM
Like I said, once the game is over, you'll see why I'm so ticked off and demoralized.

I doubt I'll ever be that active or helpful again if I play more games. That and I'll prolly have tunnel vision for several games if I do.

If you did find something enjoyable in the game (and it sounds like you did, outside of this one thing that has you feeling disappointed) I'd encourage you to do what I did and read some of the older games. ((that is, if you have time))

Thats what I did after making a huge mistake in the Star Wars game (it was bad, people were saying that I should be banned) and it helped me see the game for what it is, and what it can be. I definately felt better seeing genuinely intelligent people make silly mistakes and people who seem to be sincere and honest stab each other in the back. I think it will provide you some more perspective on what to expect from the game.

theoutlaw321
02-24-2008, 01:48 AM
Like I said, once the game is over, you'll see why I'm so ticked off and demoralized.

I doubt I'll ever be that active or helpful again if I play more games. That and I'll prolly have tunnel vision for several games if I do.

Ask Sadistic about my first game! ;)

DreamGoddessLindsey
02-24-2008, 01:55 AM
If you did find something enjoyable in the game (and it sounds like you did, outside of this one thing that has you feeling disappointed) I'd encourage you to do what I did and read some of the older games. ((that is, if you have time))

Thats what I did after making a huge mistake in the Star Wars game (it was bad, people were saying that I should be banned) and it helped me see the game for what it is, and what it can be. I definately felt better seeing genuinely intelligent people make silly mistakes and people who seem to be sincere and honest stab each other in the back. I think it will provide you some more perspective on what to expect from the game.

I just . . . If people are gonna come after me either because my play style is suspicious to the GDS crowd . . . Or get offed the first night in every game because I do "too well" . . . I dunno, it just does not seem all that fun . . .

It's not even getting killed that upset me (though how things went down definitely did) . . . It's the fact that I can't participate at all now, and these games last for weeks at least. Leaves me sitting around being bored . . . After getting frustrated with Dynasty Warriors 6, I was gonna put most of my energy into this, and now that's gone.

Yeah, I guess maybe I'm a bit of a baby and a sore loser, but that's just how I am. I'm uber-sensitive, so I get my feelings hurt and upset easy.

Antithesis
02-24-2008, 02:07 AM
Well maybe re-read some old games and consider it training?

read Cverse 1 to see how awful the town is
read Cverse 2 to see how awful the Mafia is
read RWC to see how awful everyone is! (haha)
Read Barebones to see the most dramatic moment in mafia history!
Read the VG game to see a Mafia dominate all opposition to attain flawless victory
Read DOTT and see how a Don will kill off his entire group to insure his own survival
Read Star Wars to watch everyone and their mother mess up and make mistakes
Read Cartoon Chaos to watch how big bad mafia guys can become wimps with the power of DJ's keyboard (and how to not construct a Warring Families game)
Read Rocky and Bullwinkle to see one incredibly overpowered role wreak havoc on scores of scum!

DreamGoddessLindsey
02-24-2008, 02:20 AM
You do realize that's 41,236 posts, right?

:eek:

theoutlaw321
02-24-2008, 02:22 AM
lol

Mr T Jobs To Me
02-24-2008, 02:24 AM
Heh... well, don't wanna give anything away too soon, but yeah. You can probably expect something along those lines when GDS Mafia rolls around. :p

Guess I better fight extra hard for the win here then. 6-3 looks a lot prettier than 5-4! Unless you get a good 50 signups, my hopes for the Mods to be the mafia is going to leave a couple people out in the cold. I would like to lynch an Adam Ryland don though!

DreamGoddessLindsey
02-24-2008, 02:25 AM
Which, by my calculations, would end up as well over 600,000 words at least.

:eek:

theoutlaw321
02-24-2008, 02:25 AM
Which, by my calculations, would end up as well over 600,000 words at least.

:eek:

If you start now, you may be finished by the time this game is over! lol

DreamGoddessLindsey
02-24-2008, 02:27 AM
You people in the game thread are about to make me pull my dang hair out.

By the way, I need company in the graveyard.

Antithesis
02-24-2008, 02:35 AM
Hmm well Rocky and Bullwinkle was a very short game.

For whatever reason, I literally could not stop reading barebones... probably because its starts off with a bang and never lets up after that.

If you want to feel vindicated.. DOTT and Star Wars both have instances where Newbies pointed out something important and were ignored. I think the Star Wars game was more inciteful in that regard (whatever happened to Doc Stevens anyway?)

The Cverse games have the best write ups. Those games were more "fun" styled.

If you want to see people angry and hateful at each other, read the latter part of the RWC game heh.

Maybe even better is you skip those and see if you can get access to the private boards for some games (think those started with Star Wars)

DreamGoddessLindsey
02-24-2008, 02:39 AM
Maybe.

Oy, I wish people would have paid better attention to me while I was alive. Better yet, I wish someone had protected me, or that at least I would have had a more gruesome death scene.

Sorry, rambling now, I'm still not feeling very good.

NickC13573
02-24-2008, 08:38 AM
What did I learn?



Shut the Heck up

JackalBane
03-14-2008, 01:50 PM
Any chance this will be continued?

djthefunkchris
03-15-2008, 04:29 AM
Maybe.

Oy, I wish people would have paid better attention to me while I was alive. Better yet, I wish someone had protected me, or that at least I would have had a more gruesome death scene.

Sorry, rambling now, I'm still not feeling very good.

I'd like to point out that your death is a direct result of how well you played right off the bat. Take it more as a compliment then anything. It sucks you didn't get to play more, but it's because you were very observant right off the bat, and some people can take it as your a very good Mafia coverup, or a very good player period.

BIGJOSH
03-15-2008, 10:19 AM
DGL that's the reason I told you that you may want to be quiet. I knew you may be on to something and by putting it out there you're guranteed to get killed right off the bat.

DreamGoddessLindsey
03-15-2008, 12:42 PM
People must have not paid attention to the whole thign happening with Warrior. I was killed because he suspected me of cheating, thinking I was a double player or something.

Wallbanger
03-15-2008, 03:02 PM
Um...not sure what you mean by 'double player', since there's no way you could have two roles.

He may have suspected duplicity on your part, as you claimed to be a newbie both to the game and to the community and yet acted in such a way as to put that claim in doubt.

The reality is that someone has to be hung or killed first. As you might have picked up on, people draw on their past experience and relationships when they have nothing else to go on. They'll also pick up on anything that deviates from pattern. (I know, this is difficult only having played one game, so consider this as a 'moving forward' comment.)

The Warrior
03-16-2008, 09:37 AM
He may have suspected duplicity on your part, as you claimed to be a newbie both to the game and to the community and yet acted in such a way as to put that claim in doubt.



Exactly. And DGL please get over it. This is a GAME, make believe, not real life. I felt bad for you based on some things you told me via PM yet you continue to whine at every turn about everything. First it was because I eliminated you and then you wanted the entire Mafia new game list altered to fit YOUR schedule. Just in case you did not know, there are other people here besides YOU.

JackalBane
03-16-2008, 10:35 AM
Um... That's not exactly the part I was hoping to be continued... :rolleyes:

Found the OP very informative and helpful.

BlueStar
03-16-2008, 11:09 AM
You should know that BlueStar is always town, unless he's Mafia or Individual.

Arrows
03-16-2008, 01:05 PM
The other example of a losing strategy for a mafia aligned player was Arrows, who despite playing a fantastic game failed to see it through to the end. Though much of his loss can be attributed to the absence of his don, Sensai’s death should not have been an automatic loss for him. Arrows’ death was caused, in the end, by a high-risk roleclaim made in an effort to avert Sensai’s death for another night. For those of you unfamiliar with that particular endgame, the roleclaim was along the lines of Arrows being an investigator, and he revealed that Sensai and mjdgoldeneye were the final two mafia members, with mjd as the don.

Sensai was lynched, revealed to be the don, and the remaining townies realized Arrows’s claim was false and strung him up as well.

At the time, the roleclaim made sense. Keep Sensai alive for one more day phase, and with a mis-lynch of mjd Arrows would be free to kill mad5226 during the night phase and win the game. Indeed, the suggestion of this strategy as a possibility to the town would not have hurt him. It was his extensive roleclaim, which virtually guaranteed his ouster if Sensai were lynched first, that did him in.


I still believe I had zero choice in the matter. At that time I knew about Taker's ability as well, thanks to the other mafia group mentioning a bit of it before they were taken out entirely. Had I let SoM get lynched, I would've been left on my own against two people that I had zero chance to kill, and while Taker could plug in a perfectly reasonable role-claim, there was nothing I could say to show my side.

I had to try and make it 2 on 2, or Taker and Wall would've very easily been able to take me out.

DreamGoddessLindsey
03-16-2008, 05:21 PM
Exactly. And DGL please get over it. This is a GAME, make believe, not real life. I felt bad for you based on some things you told me via PM yet you continue to whine at every turn about everything. First it was because I eliminated you and then you wanted the entire Mafia new game list altered to fit YOUR schedule. Just in case you did not know, there are other people here besides YOU.

I only said something this time because two more people implied that me being a good player was the reason I was killed when that's simply not the case.

As for the game list, pardon me for making a simple request, I dunno why people bit my head off for that when all I did was ask.

Arrows
03-16-2008, 06:52 PM
I'd like to request that you guys take this out of this thread. It has no business here.

i effin rule
07-15-2009, 10:38 AM
I had the good moderators of GDS move this over to our mafia forum and now I am bumping this up. A good read for some and something that perhaps some of the vets can expand upon.

Destiny
07-15-2009, 10:40 AM
I had the good moderators of GDS move this over to our mafia forum and now I am bumping this up. A good read for some and something that perhaps some of the vets can expand upon.

Good idea i effin rule, with all this talk of newcomers this can be a great starting point for them after learning the basics.

moon_lit_tears
07-27-2009, 11:51 PM
What have I learned? I learned I suck at this game. I do enjoy it tho. I have played 8-10 games here, 1 1/2 on mafiascum and 3 on nlw, but I am still a NoOb.

i effin rule
09-02-2009, 06:03 PM
Something I would like to discuss that I think may be hurting mafia. It is something I call "Claim-a-palooza".

This is something we are all guilty of from time to time, but I think the players have begun to use it as a crutch. It seems like it is no longer about how someone is playing, how good they are at reading others, or what their abilities get them. Instead it seems like you stay alive longer if your claim is "believable".

Claiming is a part of mafia, there is no question about it, but I can't help feeling that we are all being cheated out of a fun experience when it is "claim or lynch".

Barebone or Original Idea games generally limit the effectiveness of this tactic, but it seems to be taking over in them too.

I have no idea on what can be done or how things can be changed, but it something I just felt like pointing out.

praguepride
09-02-2009, 06:08 PM
Something I would like to discuss that I think may be hurting mafia. It is something I call "Claim-a-palooza".

This is something we are all guilty of from time to time, but I think the players have begun to use it as a crutch. It seems like it is no longer about how someone is playing, how good they are at reading others, or what their abilities get them. Instead it seems like you stay alive longer if your claim is "believable".

Claiming is a part of mafia, there is no question about it, but I can't help feeling that we are all being cheated out of a fun experience when it is "claim or lynch".

Barebone or Original Idea games generally limit the effectiveness of this tactic, but it seems to be taking over in them too.

I have no idea on what can be done or how things can be changed, but it something I just felt like pointing out.

Honestly, I think this is something for mods to address more then the players themselves. For example, if there were penalties associated with claiming, like your powers were only 50% effective because "they know you're coming" then it would be a far greater risk/reward.

On the one hand, claiming is a huge bit of info, but on the other hand you're potentially damaging a vital town resource.


Back on topic, the best advice I can give (and especially I can take) is to learn when to leave the keyboard. Whether on offense or defense, you have to remember that no everybody posts as quickly as you do, and quantity does not equate to quality.

From personal experience, I've found that the more you drum on about something, the fewer people take it seriously. That doesn't mean that you should clam up as two wrongs don't make a right, but you should always consider what your post is truly adding to the thread each and every time you make it.

Self
09-02-2009, 06:10 PM
I was thinking about the exact same thing earlier today. Sci-Fi Chaos seems to have become centered around claiming, who has, who hasn't, with FAR LESS attention given to "scum tells" or "scummy posts" particularly with the invention of the "Chuck-list" forcing claims. I've supported the Chuck List in the game, but it does seem cheap to me.

Ways around it? Un-themed games? More dangers once you're out in the open? A serial killer who must correctly guess your character's name in order to kill you?

An issue, sure.

mjdgoldeneye
09-02-2009, 06:13 PM
Something I would like to discuss that I think may be hurting mafia. It is something I call "Claim-a-palooza".

This is something we are all guilty of from time to time, but I think the players have begun to use it as a crutch. It seems like it is no longer about how someone is playing, how good they are at reading others, or what their abilities get them. Instead it seems like you stay alive longer if your claim is "believable".

Claiming is a part of mafia, there is no question about it, but I can't help feeling that we are all being cheated out of a fun experience when it is "claim or lynch".

Barebone or Original Idea games generally limit the effectiveness of this tactic, but it seems to be taking over in them too.

I have no idea on what can be done or how things can be changed, but it something I just felt like pointing out.

YES! I say this EVERY time I'm being targeted.

Sometimes the points are valid, and sometimes their not. However, that's because of an unrelated fact (whether the person is town, scum, trying to position themselves, etc.).

I purposely put crazy roles in all of my games with the intent of keeping people honest, but it hasn't worked too well.

I am starting to become disillusioned with the game because everyone, intentionally or not, is falling to this level.

In my case, unfortunately, I lose both ways because no one yet has noticed that I get called out for "acting scummy" in every game. It's just how I play! I don't mean to seem like that!

i effin rule
09-02-2009, 06:13 PM
I was thinking about the exact same thing earlier today. Sci-Fi Chaos seems to have become centered around claiming, who has, who hasn't, with FAR LESS attention given to "scum tells" or "scummy posts" particularly with the invention of the "Chuck-list" forcing claims. I've supported the Chuck List in the game, but it does seem cheap to me.

Ways around it? Un-themed games? More dangers once you're out in the open? A serial killer who must correctly guess your character's name in order to kill you?

An issue, sure.

The problem is that it seems to have taken grasp of Un-themed games too. If your claim isn't believable enough it is off to the gallows.

It is something I've tried to find ways to detour in all of my games and continue to try and come up with ways to limit it, but nothing has been super successful yet.

mjdgoldeneye
09-02-2009, 06:14 PM
I was thinking about the exact same thing earlier today. Sci-Fi Chaos seems to have become centered around claiming, who has, who hasn't, with FAR LESS attention given to "scum tells" or "scummy posts" particularly with the invention of the "Chuck-list" forcing claims. I've supported the Chuck List in the game, but it does seem cheap to me.

Ways around it? Un-themed games? More dangers once you're out in the open? A serial killer who must correctly guess your character's name in order to kill you?

An issue, sure.

What is the Chuck List? How do I not know this term? Ha ha...

i effin rule
09-02-2009, 06:15 PM
What is the Chuck List? How do I not know this term? Ha ha...

Chuck Norris is the SK who has sided with the town and attempts to kill someone off of a list, mostly of unclaimed players.

Self
09-02-2009, 06:16 PM
If you want to get off the list, you have to claim... well... hint.

To be fair, Chuck isn't the most effective of murderers.

Slim Jim
09-02-2009, 06:16 PM
I don't like becoming a negative Mafia meme :(

Clarity
09-02-2009, 06:21 PM
Honestly, I think this is something for mods to address more then the players themselves. For example, if there were penalties associated with claiming, like your powers were only 50% effective because "they know you're coming" then it would be a far greater risk/reward. I like this idea.

How effective would you be if people knew you were investigating them.. Not very.

Would love to see a system where if you roleclaim, you have a chance of losing your ability permanently or it only works half the time

i effin rule
09-02-2009, 06:26 PM
I like this idea.

How effective would you be if people knew you were investigating them.. Not very.

Would love to see a system where if you roleclaim, you have a chance of losing your ability permanently or it only works half the time

I don't think the problem is so much claiming as it is being forced to claim. Something like this would mean that there are either a lot of ability-less people or a lot of lynched people.

Personally, I'm not someone who usually wants to claim freely and likely wouldn't do so unless pushed.

Claiming is a necessity. If you are an investigator and you get a scum result on someone, you have to let someone know. You really have no choice but to out yourself in able to help the town as per your ability.

Nevermore
09-02-2009, 06:32 PM
Something I would like to discuss that I think may be hurting mafia. It is something I call "Claim-a-palooza".

This is something we are all guilty of from time to time, but I think the players have begun to use it as a crutch. It seems like it is no longer about how someone is playing, how good they are at reading others, or what their abilities get them. Instead it seems like you stay alive longer if your claim is "believable".

Claiming is a part of mafia, there is no question about it, but I can't help feeling that we are all being cheated out of a fun experience when it is "claim or lynch".

Barebone or Original Idea games generally limit the effectiveness of this tactic, but it seems to be taking over in them too.

I have no idea on what can be done or how things can be changed, but it something I just felt like pointing out.

I don't mean this as self-promotion but I think this comes down to choice of theme and what is likely to be included.

One of the things that I hope will work about the Godfather mafia I have planned is that fake roleclaims should be more difficult than in previous games due to the nature of the game mechanics.

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

i effin rule
09-02-2009, 06:35 PM
I don't mean this as self-promotion but I think this comes down to choice of theme and what is likely to be included.

One of the things that I hope will work about the Godfather mafia I have planned is that fake roleclaims should be more difficult than in previous games due to the nature of the game mechanics.

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

Wouldn't that make it more likely to force a "claim or lynch" situation?

d_w_w
09-02-2009, 06:37 PM
Claiming is part of the game.

Fake claiming is also part of the game. And, mind you, one of the most fun parts of the game, IMHO.

As long as games are setup so that scum players have a decent chance of coming up with a believable fake claim, all is well, as far as I'm concerned... as it is a viable strategy to push people for claims and hints.

d_w_w
09-02-2009, 06:39 PM
See, for example, my fantastic and totally sold fake claim in Power Rangers mafia :p

ShadowedFlames
09-02-2009, 07:15 PM
See, for example, my fantastic and totally sold fake claim in Power Rangers mafia :p

Quiet, you. :p

Nevermore
09-02-2009, 09:41 PM
Wouldn't that make it more likely to force a "claim or lynch" situation?

Technically, yes, but something else will be in play to mitigate that.

I don't want to give away anything so I'll shut up now :p.

Suffice to say, I think there are ways for mods to make provisions for such circumstances.

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

praguepride
09-02-2009, 09:43 PM
Another good aspect for making people reluctant to claim is to have (or at least imply) that there's hunter/hunted situations going on.

Antithesis
09-02-2009, 11:57 PM
I think the difference between here and the Mafia Scum site (aside from deadlines between phases) is that at Mafia scum usually most of the roles will be vanilla townies. If the game's started with a listing of townie alignments/colors, then there is no benefit from claiming because (claiming a townie power role would get you targetted to be killed by scum as they would be rare) and claiming a vanilla townie when most are vanilla townies doesn't prove or disprove anything, gamewise, unless special circumstances are involved. It can become even more problematic in themed games, especially those beholden to a small universe or heavily favors one particular era in a universe.

I like that here mods are creative and usually almost everyone has an ability to use or role to play but I'm not sure there is some way to maintain that and overcome the claim or lynch thing without creating other problems unless some games move towards the vanilla aspect.

SuperOwens
09-03-2009, 04:08 AM
Its funny that players are calling for this but will still lynch you if you don't claim ;)

I never claim unless I really have to. Take a look at Dust where I had to out myself to get scum or Sci-Fi where I had to play my role. I actually feel crap about that, and continued trying to play my role by not being 100% honest.

Thing is I remember being town in Astil's game and refusing to claim, where did that get me? Dead. Even from players who play a lot with me and know my general style. Its claim or die. And when you dont claim (heaven forbid your protecting an important town role) and die, your then accused of not helping the town and wasting a day phase.

Derek made a point about this not so long ago, we have got to a point where most games are the same now. You get into the 5/6 phase and have a list of claimed players a list of those who haven't and you just go about pressuring them.

I also think this is why scum have been doing well in the last few games. Having been the scum hitman in 2 of the last 3 games, I can say how easy it was to pick targets. Claiming makes it easier for the scum groups not to hit each other.

I wish I had come to mafia here earlier, when the first games were played. It would have be fun to experience those wow moments.

The Shape
09-03-2009, 04:22 AM
My main problem is themes that are limited or a lot of people know very little about.

After reading anti's post I like the idea of a Vanilla Mafia game :cool:

Destiny
09-03-2009, 04:55 AM
My main problem is themes that are limited or a lot of people know very little about.

After reading anti's post I like the idea of a Vanilla Mafia game :cool:

This does sound like a good idea. You also wouldn't get so many inactive players with power roles.

eayragt
09-03-2009, 06:55 AM
It's an interesting one.

I can see why people would say mods are responsible, but they can't solely be. Even if 1/3 of the roles are "wacky", a "wacky" roleclaim will still get lynched. One solution is providing a fake claim - one that I've gone for in a game of mafia I've written. However, I know a lot of people would be anti providing fake claims.

So then you go to the players. But you can't force the players to play any way - it's their game. People are being mislynched purely down to a roleclaim. This will continue, until the players choose to stop, or until a themeless game is run.

I will say, I think part of the damage is done because of the write-ups - I think far too many characters are being identified in characters. It makes it an interesting read - I really enjoyed reading Power Rangers - but it mkaes claims all the more important. When claims can be proved easily, anyone's claim who can't be proved is up for the lynch. It's a shame because the write-ups are normally really well written and really add to the flavour. However, I think they do contribute to the game being pushed down this path.

My suggestions would be less power roles = less to write up about = less "identifiable" roles = less importance put on roles claims

People would still be lynched for having odd claims though, so whether it's actually sort anything out.

GruntMark
09-03-2009, 07:11 AM
This is a reason Im a big fan of the user made universes. DUST, Sin, Lakeside...ect. You have alot of freedom to move around claim wise. Not total, but sometimes the themed games can you get you boxed in rather fast.

The game Comradebot and I plan to run should work out fairly well in this reguard.

Course...we tampered with other mechanics, so lord knows how balance will go. :p

SuperOwens
09-03-2009, 07:37 AM
This is a reason Im a big fan of the user made universes. DUST, Sin, Lakeside...ect. You have alot of freedom to move around claim wise. Not total, but sometimes the themed games can you get you boxed in rather fast.

The game Comradebot and I plan to run should work out fairly well in this reguard.

Course...we tampered with other mechanics, so lord knows how balance will go. :p

In complete agreement.

There are some themes out there witch make fake claiming virtually impossible. I remember Transformers being hard. anything you went with was so obscure it couldn't possibly be in.

ShadowedFlames
09-03-2009, 08:19 AM
My main problem is themes that are limited or a lot of people know very little about.

After reading anti's post I like the idea of a Vanilla Mafia game :cool:

I've actually run a 12-player "Barebones" vanilla game. One cop, I think one doctor, and I forget if I had the roleblocker. Probably one of the most cerebral games I had seen in a long time, that one was.

d_w_w
09-03-2009, 09:59 AM
This is a reason Im a big fan of the user made universes. DUST, Sin, Lakeside...ect. You have alot of freedom to move around claim wise. Not total, but sometimes the themed games can you get you boxed in rather fast.

The game Comradebot and I plan to run should work out fairly well in this reguard.

Course...we tampered with other mechanics, so lord knows how balance will go. :p

In complete agreement.

There are some themes out there witch make fake claiming virtually impossible. I remember Transformers being hard. anything you went with was so obscure it couldn't possibly be in.

Agreed.

In general, I think if a mod wants to make a single-themed game, they should do this first:

Write a list of all of popular/well-known characters in the theme. Chop between 1/4 and 1/3 off, making them potentially available as fake claims. And, ideally, don't chop off the bottom 1/4 or 1/3, but instead, kind of randomly eliminate characters.

In other words, even though there are 46 cool characters in that franchise, it might make sense for the game to be sized from 30-34.

Now, it will still be a risk for scum to claim a well-known character, as they might get counter claimed. But honestly, those situations are kind of fun. Plus, towns here have a tendency to give up so much information, that it should be pretty easy for the astute scum player to eliminate a decent number of potential claims by the second or third day.

Derek B
09-03-2009, 10:08 AM
Got to chime in with my 2 cents since this whole thing is something that has been on my mind for a while.

As a player, I do enjoy reading a well written write up and seeing the story that a mod has put together. It's great to see the skills of the mods BUT the point of write ups is to reveal deaths, not to provide information to the players. Ultimately, all that anyone should be able to get from a write up is that people died. Some games reveal massive amounts of information in the write up that it makes the actual roles that some players have totally irrelevant. If I can tell who has been targetted for a kill based on a claim and a write up, then something has gone wrong somewhere.

In my opinion a write up should look something like this:

Night 1

After the no lynch of the day phase, many people decided to forego sleep in order to help themselves, and maybe others, to achieve their goals.

---------

The hustle and bustle around the town provided adequate cover for this person's night activities. They stalked their target and slid the blade between their ribs, killing them instantly.

----------

One shot was all it took, the victim no longer had a head and is clearly dead.

---------------

Arrows is dead. He was Arrows, Town Aligned Fake Claim Extraordinaire... or is he?

Derek B is dead. He was Derek B, Awesomefacefulness Aligned Wench Visitor

No gender clues, no ability clues, no knowledge of which kill relates to which person... nothing incriminating, nothing helpful. The most you can get is that someone used a knife and someone probably used a gun... but since we don't know which they are, it's kinda hard to tell.

Theme games are also a pain for claims... any themed game automatically limits the possibilities, so unless you provide a theme that is HUGE then it makes it very hard for scum.

Playstyles will always gravitate towards what is best for the majority of people. Claims will always be good for the town and so claiming will always be demanded. Write ups that provide evidence of truthfulness and lies will always be good for the town too. It's up to the mods to give as little info as possible to player in any way possible. So if it isn't in a role PM, players shouldn't know it UNLESS it's discussed in the thread by the players themselves. :)

Anywho, I'm off to work. Just thought I'd chip in with that... and remind everyone to get excited for Pokemon mafia coming soon! :cool:

The Shape
09-03-2009, 10:15 AM
I personally think there should usually be more to a writeup than that unless its a specified "dark" game with PMs giving more details going out to people. Some games including SFC currently give away a whole lot with very direct descriptions of people but it's possible to do it vague enough to both be interesting and useful but not all-powerful.

Arrows
09-03-2009, 10:25 AM
See, for example, my fantastic and totally sold fake claim in Power Rangers mafia :p

That claim was beautiful, I'll give ya that.

i effin rule
09-03-2009, 10:25 AM
That claim was beautiful, I'll give ya that.

He lives!

BlueStar
09-03-2009, 01:51 PM
I'll throw out my original idea to start the Muppet Show Maffia.

The opening write-up would involve all major characters, and then something happening leaving a certain amount of these characters dead, but whose names would not have been specified.

Just a thought for future MODs.

BlueStar
09-03-2009, 01:54 PM
I personally think there should usually be more to a writeup than that unless its a specified "dark" game with PMs giving more details going out to people. Some games including SFC currently give away a whole lot with very direct descriptions of people but it's possible to do it vague enough to both be interesting and useful but not all-powerful.

/nod nod nod

Marvel Maffia: As townie Famine, Anti made the write-ups seem like I was scum. He even said: "I know I'll wind up BlueStar for making him out as scum...".

Scum actions can be told as townie actions, if looked through the scum glasses...sort of speak.

I'll even say that, as Sepiroth in Final Fantasy, I could have done better, even if the write-up gave me little space to work. But still, I could have claimed Basch and said I was at Midgar to protect Tifa. Just to say...players need to work with write-ups, and write-ups need to work with players.

eayragt
09-03-2009, 02:20 PM
Oh, the other ting mafia players should learn, but goes against natural human instinct, as generally a dead townie wins with town. It's a hard concept but vital to mafia - it's not a game of survival, it's a team game.

praguepride
09-03-2009, 02:54 PM
I have a neat idea for write ups for Fallout. Just to warn you it's going to be a pretty dark game :D

praguepride
09-03-2009, 02:55 PM
Oh, the other ting mafia players should learn, but goes against natural human instinct, as generally a dead townie wins with town. It's a hard concept but vital to mafia - it's not a game of survival, it's a team game.

I'm iffy on this. On the one hand, I agree that a dead townie can be as useful as a live townie.

But on the toher hand a dead townie is one less person between your vital town resources and scum, one less vote you can throw down at a critical juncture..

Derek B
09-03-2009, 03:00 PM
I personally think there should usually be more to a writeup than that unless its a specified "dark" game with PMs giving more details going out to people. Some games including SFC currently give away a whole lot with very direct descriptions of people but it's possible to do it vague enough to both be interesting and useful but not all-powerful.

My example was pretty brief since I was running out of time before I left, but the general idea is there. There would probably be more kill attempts in a game and if there were enough people in one place (at least 3, generally speaking) then there might be a write up about that... but anything in it would be vague enough that no-one should be able to work out exactly what is going on simply from the write up.

Write ups shouldn't reveal information beyond the dead... each player gets a role and that should be their sole source of information, beyond what is shared in the thread by other players. Another example of the way write ups should be done (in my own opinion of course) is...

Night 710,573

The 1,000 year siege continued on again, another night in the epic saga.

All around the castle the war continued on, with the siege engines raining down death on those foolish enough to go out into the warzone. Agents from all sides of the conflict were abound, seeking to end the war by any means as the talks continued to fail.

One area in particular found itself to be the home of many on this night, lit up by the fireballs shooting overhead. Hunkering down for the night, the bright flash distrubed them from a fleeting glimpse of sleep. Locking eyes, both people seemed shocked to see each other as events quickly unfolded. The shadows in the room suddenly leapt into action as an explosion just outside disorientated them all... within moments the chaotic scene resolved itself, bodies scattering into the night despite the ancient assault continuing...

Just a general fluff piece there, vaguely and loosely related to a game I've been considering making. Once again, it's gender free and doesn't really reveal anything about the people involved. Some people might be able to ID themselves in the write up if they look hard enough, but there isn't really anything in there that would give townies any information.

As for what is actually going on there, I'd leave that for you to guess. It's fairly simple, but heavily disguised to avoid revealing anything. :p