What am i doing so wrong?

[Carmichael]

i love the idea of playing with TCW. just the idea of trying to topple SWF is quite fun.

every time i've ever tried to start with TCW i just will end up falling to cult within four or five months. i've genuinely started about 10 tcw games across tew 08 and 10. i always give up because i just take the promotion into rubbishness.

i think i must be lacking some ;how to play the game fundamentals?'. i mean right now the company prestige is 55 and the momentum is down at like 46.

im not putting on rubbish shows, just im always consistently in and around 72, sometimes i'll get a 66 and occasionally i'll get an 81 but its rare. i always manage to mess up my main event, very rarely does my main event come off very good. like for instance on the last card i booked it had 93 heat going into it (sam keith vs wolf harkins) yet the match only ends up a 76 and thats actually a very good rating for a main event that i book. the match before was rocky golden vs tommy cornell and that only got a 69. im just seemingly rubbish at booking matches.

im in may now and i've jsut had total wrestling taken off the air because the ratings werent strong enough.

any ideas or thoughts to where im going wrong?

[TakerNGN74]

I can't tell you what you are doing wrong, but I will tell you that you are not alone in this. Whenever I play as TCW I always fall to cult, it doesn't matter how good your shows are it eventually happens. I think it has a lot to do with the state of the economy and the wrestling industry but I could be wrong about that. I try to play after falling to cult but I never am able to rebound from it. But it doesn't just happen to you.

[Bigpapa42]

Tough to say exactly where you are going wrong. But a few thoughts...

-TCW's product is performance over popularity. The problem is that while there are some fantastic talents on the roster, there are also quite a few mediocre talents. Unfortunately the starting world champion is one of those mediocre talents. There are ways to protect him, but you can't do that with the whole roster.

-popularity is still important. Which means getting the popularity of your main talent up is key. Angles can be used very effectively to get workers like Tommy Cornell, Ricky Dale Johnson, Rick Law, Rocky Golden, Eddie Peak, Joey Minnesota, and Wolf Hawkins more over. That helps. A match between Keith and Hawkins when they are both at B+/A popularity is going to grade better than when they are C+/B-.

-because popularity and performance both matter, having lower level talents on TV cards can drag it down a bit. So while you may want to give workers like Aaron Andrews TV time, do so carefully so they don't sink you. Same with bringing in new talent that have low popularity - hello Davis Wayne Newton! Use dark matches or a B show, once you can get one.

-I will often adjust the product a bit, dropping Realism down a notch which makes the product Performance equals Popularity. That's a bit easier, I find. I will usually change the Match-Angle ratio to 80%, allowing more angles per card, which helps get the top guys more over. Spamming Tommy Cornell off the start doesn't hurt, as he will hit A* popularity quite qiuckly. The only downside to that is that he may not want to lose to those below him in popularity, so if you don't bring up some babyfaces soon enough, he won't want to lose to anyone.

[Derek B]

Tough to say exactly where you are going wrong. But a few thoughts...

-TCW's product is performance over popularity. The problem is that while there are some fantastic talents on the roster, there are also quite a few mediocre talents. Unfortunately the starting world champion is one of those mediocre talents. There are ways to protect him, but you can't do that with the whole roster.

-popularity is still important. Which means getting the popularity of your main talent up is key. Angles can be used very effectively to get workers like Tommy Cornell, Ricky Dale Johnson, Rick Law, Rocky Golden, Eddie Peak, Joey Minnesota, and Wolf Hawkins more over. That helps. A match between Keith and Hawkins when they are both at B+/A popularity is going to grade better than when they are C+/B-.

-because popularity and performance both matter, having lower level talents on TV cards can drag it down a bit. So while you may want to give workers like Aaron Andrews TV time, do so carefully so they don't sink you. Same with bringing in new talent that have low popularity - hello Davis Wayne Newton! Use dark matches or a B show, once you can get one.

-I will often adjust the product a bit, dropping Realism down a notch which makes the product Performance equals Popularity. That's a bit easier, I find. I will usually change the Match-Angle ratio to 80%, allowing more angles per card, which helps get the top guys more over. Spamming Tommy Cornell off the start doesn't hurt, as he will hit A* popularity quite qiuckly. The only downside to that is that he may not want to lose to those below him in popularity, so if you don't bring up some babyfaces soon enough, he won't want to lose to anyone.

I pretty much did all this too in my recently started game. But in response to the OP, you need to have a show rating at about 80 to maintain National level popularity in the US. TCW being on a network that shows in multiple countries will give you slightly misleading messages at the end of the show where you will be told you are gaining popularity... but that's just more gains outside the US than you are losing in the US.

It sounds like you are missing a few other things too. Wolf vs Sam Keith is a heel vs heel match, which will automatically get a big hit to match rating because TCW has a strong heel/face divide. You are probably also not putting on long enough main event matches, with TCW set to have 30 minute main events by default. When you take bigpapa's advice up there I'd tweak the match times a bit too, bringing the expected lengths down to something like 8/12/20. You can go over those, but going under will drag match ratings down considerably... which is probably what happened to you with Cornell/Golden.

And in very broad terms, try using the following road agent notes on your main events. "Victor" "Open Match" "Decisive Win". It won't get the biggest popularity increases but it will usually get the best match ratings.

I've put on shows between 72 and 88 within the first few months in my game... my best matches are big tag team contests, seems everyone's weaknesses get protected better that way so you can get the best results. The stacking bonuses for charisma and star quality probably have something to do with it too. :)

[Carmichael]

thanks for the help so far.

three things i turned keith face because i've had good success with him in the 'one last time story line' and my main event matches normally are in the 26-30 minute mark. a quick question on that, does this mean 30 minutes including entrances of 30 minutes of the wrestling? i have changed the match/angle ratio to 80%

at the minute im running 6 story lines and they're ranging from 66 to 83 in heat and i never have a card below 66, so i have no idea why my companies momentum and prestige is so low.

im going to stick with this game because i feel like i have loads there at tcw. i feel like its going in the right direction because im not running disgraceful cards, i have good talent, like swoop, champagne, DWN, gino montero who have been there for two months now. im wondering if there are some guys im not using properly.

i mean i have no idea what to do with rick law, josh taylor, or koshiro ino even RDJ, many others like charlie thatcher, AA, Clark Alexander, Giant Tana etc.

obviously i have a grasp on what their strengths are but they are jsut wasting away or i just use them when i need a face or heel to put over someone like swoop. i think i struggle to get my head around feuds with more than 4 people in them.

i mean im just rambling now. its quite tough. i've lost hawkins now as he wont resign.

[Carmichael]

there must be something wrong. i mean the last two main events i've run have been troy tornado (who is my champ) vs koshiro ino and ran a tag of cornell/law vs rdj and golden. both got 70 and 66 respectively. i find it annoying because i run a really good card.

that last card with the 66 main event, had an 82 match, an 81 some angles that got to 90's yet my main event just drags me down every time.

edit: make that a third time. sam keith wins the world title in a storyline that has a heat of 90 against troy tornado. it gets a 69.

[Teh_Showtime]

what are the notes you are getting?

did you change the danger/intensity a considerable amount?

I play as TCW a LOT and usually hit international before Total Mayhem in May.

I don't usually monster push guys aside from making Golden super popular to counter his lack of skill initially

remember to call most main matches in the ring, with guys like Cornell, Keith, Minnesota, and Wolf

[Bigpapa42]

What has happened with the popularity of your top talent? If its still around the same as where you started, it seems odd.

Short of poor chemistry in the ring, I find it odd that you are getting such poor grades on your main events. What do your Dirt Sheet notes so? They can tell what is adding to or taking away from the match far more effectively than we can.

I'm wondering if there's something else going on with some of your talent. Did the heel turn tank Keith's momeum? Is his gimmick rating terrible? Those things could have a notable effect.

Using the match notes that Derek mentioned should help. Don't go into overkill mode with most notes - no need to have interference every match, etc. Make sure you aren't using contradictory notes - All Out and Slow Build, for example.

The four young talents you mentioned - Champagne Lover, Swoop, DWN, and Gino - all start with almost no overness in the US. As I mentioned, overness still matters in TCW. Even though they are talented, that lack of overness is going to drag down match grades. They are exactly the kind of talent that I would develop slowly by using dark matches to have them job for a long while. I realize the temptation to develop your own stars, there's no need to hurry the process. Besides, look at Swoop and Rick Law - Swoop is not a better worker. Law is already decently over, so you are several steps ahead by making good use of Law than trying to push Swoop.

Guys like Law, Ino, and especially RDJ are pretty core. They are solid, though not great, in the ring. Good enought to put on solid matches against lesser opponents and great matches against top level opponents. Law and RDJ can cut great promos to build popularity pretty easily. If you are not making much use of these guys, or just having them in the occassioanl match, you are handicapping yourself because they can help you quite a bit.

[Teh_Showtime]

The tag division is also very key. The Machines and New Wave both can put on great matches with each other and if you have your main event team up against them, it will get a good grade and boost the team's popularity.

Most of the midcard are part of a tag team and you can score at least a C for The L.A. Connection vs the Machines and similar matches.

[Bigpapa42]

The tag division is also very key. The Machines and New Wave both can put on great matches with each other and if you have your main event team up against them, it will get a good grade and boost the team's popularity.

Most of the midcard are part of a tag team and you can score at least a C for The L.A. Connection vs the Machines and similar matches.

Absolutely. Forgot to mention how key tags can be, after Derek noted it.

In both games I've run with TCW and when the CPU runs them, I frequently see a lot of tag team matches in the Top Ten for the company. The New Wave might not look individual impressive (though Cornell will typical carry either to at least a B+ match) but as a tandem, they are amazing. The Machines don't have the experience, but they are even better individual workers. The Tag Team Specialists are a great team to use to develop youngsters, given their Performance skills. The RDJ-Minnesota and Cornell-Hawkins teams can be really valuable, as combining good workers with good experience with decent overness is basically going to result in solid match grades. Nearly every time (barring something like a horrible gimmick dragging someone down badly).

Cornell-Hawkins versus The New Wave is one of my go-to matches for the first Total Wrestling when I start a new TCW game. It almost always grabs a B+ or A.

[Phantom Stranger]

Tornado/Ino is probably getting dinged for Psych among other things. What notes are you giving the road agent for these matches? Are you making sure to use your best available roadie for them? (It's probably either Tommy or Sam, honestly, if neither are involved in the match).

[Carmichael]

what is overness btw? i dont know where i can find that number.

i think keith's gimmick rating is really quite low.

i think you're right, i think my product suffered because there was a transition between the new guys getting some pop and the old guys going down. there was that crossover point where it was really bad. i mean i've now got swoop to 85 in some areas, the machines are now 78, minnesota has seen a rise too. obviously a few have dropped.

my road agents are luis montero and archie judge. both 94 and 98 working as road agents.

should i be using call in ring more, when i have good workers, i did it recently and they had a great match.

i just had a main event with minnesota and law and it just bombed to 64. it had 74 heat going into it. i did the open match, decisive win notes too.

[Bigpapa42]

Overness and popularity are the same thing. Just different terms.

If Keith's gimmick is below a C+ and you have Gimmick Effects on, its a penalty on every match he's in. If its really low, its killing every match he's in.

64 for Law and Minnesota is really low. Without any chemistry issues, at least. Again, the easiest way to decipher what went wrong - or even what went right - with a match is to look at the Dirt Sheet. We can give you suggestions, while the Dirt Sheet can give you specifics.

[Carmichael]

i keep getting penalized for low morale, poor motivation, poor gimmick. stuff like that. i just did a massive angle that featured 8 of my top guys and it just seemed to fall down to a 64 because poor gimmick, low morale etc. because like 6 out of my top 8 guys have low morale, poor motivation poor gimmick. its not like they have a rubbish gimmick, i mean sam keith was rated at 43 but hes gone now, the guys in that angle have gimmicks rated above 60.

my backstage morale is like 90% but i keep looking down the list of my workers, in the 'talk to worker' bit and it seems just like most of my guys that i use regularly are slightly annoyed at me. because they were annoyed that i left them off a show or because they didnt like what i booked.

[Bigpapa42]

C+ is the "average" point for gimmicks. Below that means it detracts (even a little). Morale could be playing a big role if every worker in a given segment is pissed off. Your best bet at this point might by turning off the Morale Effects. Angering your talent is obviously easier when you negative personalities. Pushing young workers hard can be a problem in that regard, which is the biggest reason I recommend against giving a young worker like Swoop a huge push.

[Carmichael]

ha. i might have accidently made swoop my champion already.

3 more questions then i promise im done

how do you get importance up?

right now my agents are suggesting that quite a lot of my workers are getting stale. what should i do to avoid some important workers of mine becomming rubbish because i messed up a gimmick change?

how come its taking so long to get my company prestige and momentum anywhere near where it was? it seemed like it fell to 52 and 44 within a month but its taken about 4 months to get it up to 58 and 55. im consistently putting on shows from 71-76 now.

[Bigpapa42]

I'm not saying that pushing Swoop is wrong or shouldn't be done. Just that there are consequences to a huge Jesus/Brock push. Especially when the talent is that young. If you find he's easily annoyed at things and become a problem backstage, the push he was given is the cause.

Talent like Swoop, Davis Wayne Newton, and the Keith boys can literally lose their way up the card. They have the combination of skills, Charisma, and Star Quality to see consistent popularity gains in losing efforts, if the matches are of decent quality. Its a slower process than the Jesus push, but having Swoop to lose to an upper midcarder every week on TV would probably see him hit the upper card in popularity within about a year anyway. The nice part is that losing pretty constantly helps keep their ego in in check.

As for your qeustions... Importance in regard to what?

"Getting stale" basically means something needs to change. Gimmick or alignment (face/heel). That is going to affect their matches in increasing degrees until something changes. Or you turn off that effect in the Options.

It takes a long time for a couple of reasons. One is that there is six-month "cooling off" period after a drop in size. The second is that shows in the 71-76 range are likely just the minimum needed to see growth, so its going to be slower going compared to putting on 88-95 shows on a consistent basis. And third, on a realistic level, it doesn't take that long to drive fans away but it sure takes a lot to win them back.

Don't stop asking questions. If you have em, ask em. Learning by trial and error works, and in some cases its the only way, but asking questions definitely helps.

[pepper2008]

Not all gimmicks will be succesful in TCW. I realized that only a handful of gimmicks actually give consistent high results like A in TCW. Most will give you a very low gimmick scores.

[Gigas]

If they are getting stale, usually a turn would suit them. A good thing about turns is you no longer have to wait 6 months to do a gimmick change.