500 Greatest Wrestlers of the 70's,80's and 90's

[MattitudeV2]

I was wondering about a list of the 500 greatest wrestlers so you could give me your list or say how much you like or hate my picks(Not my name.)

[shamelessposer]

Dude. Are you honestly expecting everyone to post their top five hundred picks to this thread?

[MattitudeV2]

Dude. Are you honestly expecting everyone to post their top five hundred picks to this thread?

Not really just where some guys need to go.

[BIGJOSH]

Either Shawn Michaels or Ric Flair should be number one...no questions asked IMO.

[MattitudeV2]

Either Shawn Michaels or Ric Flair should be number one...no questions asked IMO.

Yeah that is definite.

[shamelessposer]

Either Shawn Michaels or Ric Flair should be number one...no questions asked IMO.

Keiji Mutoh's more deserving of the #1 spot than Michaels. And Mutoh doesn't deserve it. Flair... you could definitely make an argument for, but I'd be more inclined to put Hulk Hogan or The Rock in the top spot. Hogan brought wrestling into the mainstream and The Rock is a big earner in addition to being a better ambassador from wrestling to the real world than the industry could ever have hoped for.

[BIGJOSH]

Keiji Mutoh's more deserving of the #1 spot than Michaels. And Mutoh doesn't deserve it. Flair... you could definitely make an argument for, but I'd be more inclined to put Hulk Hogan or The Rock in the top spot. Hogan brought wrestling into the mainstream and The Rock is a big earner in addition to being a better ambassador from wrestling to the real world than the industry could ever have hoped for.
If you're simply voting by "popularity" and kayfabe record then I would agree, but when you consider popularity, titles held, match quality and kayfabe win/loss record I would have to say Flair of Michaels undoubtedly. I would also probably lean towards flair being my number one.

[MattitudeV2]

Keiji Mutoh's more deserving of the #1 spot than Michaels. And Muto doesn't deserve it. Flair... you could definitely make an argument for, but I'd be more inclined to put Hulk Hogan or The Rock in the top spot. Hogan brought wrestling into the mainstream and The Rock is a big earner in addition to being a better ambassador from wrestling to the real world than the industry could ever have hoped for.

Well he could be in the top 5.

[shamelessposer]

If you're simply voting by "popularity" and kayfabe record then I would agree, but when you consider popularity, titles held, match quality and kayfabe win/loss record I would have to say Flair of Michaels undoubtedly. I would also probably lean towards flair being my number one.

In that case I would be inclined to give the top spot to Flair, in large part because it wasn't until 2001 that Chris Jericho became Undisputed Champion. Michaels is disqualified for vacating a world championship over a lost smile and never having been a draw in his life.

[BIGJOSH]

In that case I would be inclined to give the top spot to Flair, in large part because it wasn't until 2001 that Chris Jericho became Undisputed Champion. Michaels is disqualified for vacating a world championship over a lost smile and never having been a draw in his life.

Bret Hart fan? :p

[shamelessposer]

Bret Hart fan? :p

Not even a little bit. It's just that when I compose a "greatest wrestler" list I leave off guys whose biggest career accomplishments include being a prima donna, not making money, and being a founding member of nWo Junior Junior (not a typo).

[scorpion]

There's no way Shawn Michaels gets the top spot, He's not even Top 5 in my opinion. If you are talking about 90's alone, maybe, but not including all three decades. Top spot goes to Hogan or Flair. Those two guys carried their respectful companies on their backs. I have a preference toward Flair, but Hogan did draw a lot more money. Right behind them I would put Andre the Giant. He was a huge draw everywhere he went. Prior to his body breaking down he was also a heck of a worker. After that I would have put more thought into who would be ranked where, but those are the top three to me.

[MattitudeV2]

There's no way Shawn Michaels gets the top spot, He's not even Top 5 in my opinion. If you are talking about 90's alone, maybe, but not including all three decades. Top spot goes to Hogan or Flair. Those two guys carried their respectful companies on their backs. I have a preference toward Flair, but Hogan did draw a lot more money. Right behind them I would put Andre the Giant. He was a huge draw everywhere he went. Prior to his body breaking down he was also a heck of a worker. After that I would have put more thought into who would be ranked where, but those are the top three to me.

Well if I'm looking at it,Hogan never wanted to job to certain guys while Flair would.HBK is a case of a WWE name that earned his stripes from the rockers,to the turn on Jannetty,Intercontinental and European title reigns,his numerous world title wins.

[Self]

Shawn is really good, but when the company was on his back, it hardly thrived like when Hogan or Austin were on top. Not totally his fault, but it's a mark against him. I don't know much about 70's and 80's, but I'd have Austin and Rock up there, ahead of Shawn.

I never got Flair. He amused me, but I never connected with him, so wouldn't presume to comment.

I get my 90's and my 00's mixed up a lot though. Time flies.

[scorpion]

Well if I'm looking at it,Hogan never wanted to job to certain guys while Flair would.HBK is a case of a WWE name that earned his stripes from the rockers,to the turn on Jannetty,Intercontinental and European title reigns,his numerous world title wins.

The great thing about doing top lists is that everyone will disagree, and thats fine. I think if you are looking at only the '90s, Shawn Michaels is top 3. But with three decades worth of workers to look at, I just can't put him up there. I think you are looking at Hogan from a more inside view than I would. I look at it this way, Babe Ruth was a womanizing alcoholic, but that doesn't change the fact that he was the greatest of his time, maybe all time. Without Hulk Hogan there would be no WWE, at least not at the level it is today. Had Wrestlemania failed, Vince would have lost the company. Plus Hogan and Andre drew the biggest house ever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Hogan mark, I just respect what he did in the business. Plus, its not like Shawn ever refused to job.

[MattitudeV2]

Shawn is really good, but when the company was on his back, it hardly thrived like when Hogan or Austin were on top. Not totally his fault, but it's a mark against him. I don't know much about 70's and 80's, but I'd have Austin and Rock up there, ahead of Shawn.

I never got Flair. He amused me, but I never connected with him, so wouldn't presume to comment.

I get my 90's and my 00's mixed up a lot though. Time flies.

Shawn Michaels=Top 50 spot
Steve Austin=Top 25 spot
The Rock=Top 20 spot

[scorpion]

Shawn is really good, but when the company was on his back, it hardly thrived like when Hogan or Austin were on top. Not totally his fault, but it's a mark against him. I don't know much about 70's and 80's, but I'd have Austin and Rock up there, ahead of Shawn.

I never got Flair. He amused me, but I never connected with him, so wouldn't presume to comment.

I get my 90's and my 00's mixed up a lot though. Time flies.

To be honest, I grew up a WWF fan, and I never got him either, untill I bought the Ultimate Ric Flair collection. Yes, there is the great Steamboat match on there. But the two matches on that DVD that turned me into a fan were the "I quit" match with Terry Funk, and the '92 Rumble. The match with Funk was just brutal. Think of the ladder match with Edge only Flair was in his prime. In the Rumble Flair bumped and sold, and made the entire WWF roster look like stars, before winning it all. He then cuts one of his better promos about that title being the only title that matters.

[justtxyank]

I'd say that Hogan and Flair are tied for the top spot and I couldn't pick between the two of them. They are different sides of the same coin, each the best at one part of the business ever.

Also, I love HBK, I mean I'm really fond of him, but he doesn't belong near the top of this list at all. HBK is an amazing worker and he's had some amazing matches and he's great on the mic, but for whatever reason, he's never been what Hogan/Austin/Flair/The Rock/Bret Hart were.

Just in American wrestling, I'd go

1. Hogan/Flair
2. The Rock
3. Bret Hart
4. Steve Austin
5. Sting

[Self]

I'm very hesitant about putting Bret up that high, but mostly because I'm a Hart Foundation mark. His 'failure' in WCW, while not his fault, damages his rep. Unlike Flair and Hogan, he couldn't draw everywhere he went, although the Goldberg-Steel Plate thing could have really gone somewhere.

What about Undertaker? The length of career puts him in the top 20 for me (which is probably 30 considering all of the stuff I don't know about)

[MattitudeV2]

Know Flair can draw anywhere in US,Austrilia,Japan,China,Brazil.Hogan could probably draw state side.

[Self]

Hulk Hogan could draw anywhere he wanted. EVERYONE knows Hulk Hogan. Ric Flair... if I didn't know wrestling, I'm not too sure I'd know who he is. Not well enough to want to go see him.

[BIGJOSH]

Hulk Hogan could draw anywhere he wanted. EVERYONE knows Hulk Hogan. Ric Flair... if I didn't know wrestling, I'm not too sure I'd know who he is. Not well enough to want to go see him.

Though Hogan is for sure more well known than Flair, I think you might be selling Flair a bit short. After Hogan and The Rock, Flair may have the most name recognition of everyone left. Remember, Flair carried the NWA for YEARS and would have been more successful in WWF in the early 90's had it not been for Hogan's ego.

[SuperOwens]

To be honest, I grew up a WWF fan, and I never got him either, untill I bought the Ultimate Ric Flair collection. Yes, there is the great Steamboat match on there. But the two matches on that DVD that turned me into a fan were the "I quit" match with Terry Funk, and the '92 Rumble. The match with Funk was just brutal. Think of the ladder match with Edge only Flair was in his prime. In the Rumble Flair bumped and sold, and made the entire WWF roster look like stars, before winning it all. He then cuts one of his better promos about that title being the only title that matters.

Interesting, I was never a big Flair fan but remember how popular he was to the Nitro fans back in the day. Id never seen much WCW before the Monday night wars period. I kept thinking, why is everybody loving the old white haired dude id seen win the Rumble in WWF?

The more i got into wrestling, the more his legend grew, so when the DVD came out, me and a mate snapped it up. Bought a couple of crates and some food and made a weekend of it.

Unfortunately, i still didnt get what the fuss was all about. Don't hate me, but i just dont get the Rick Flair thing. Im a bad wrestling fan... :p

[Self]

I'm not trying to put Flair down at all. If you know wrestling, you know Ric Flair. He's drawn, he's accomplished, he rocks. It's just that world outside of wrestling that Flair hasn't conquered. Not like Hogan. That's all I meant.

[shamelessposer]

Hulk Hogan could draw anywhere he wanted. EVERYONE knows Hulk Hogan. Ric Flair... if I didn't know wrestling, I'm not too sure I'd know who he is. Not well enough to want to go see him.

I don't know if you're underestimating Flair or if I'm overestimating him due to his ascension to godhood in my home state, but Ric Flair is definitely an international draw. Not anywhere near the same level as Hogan in his prime, but who can compare to a record like that?

EDIT: And if you want to see something weird, do a YouTube search for some of Hogan's matches in Japan. The guy was surprisingly solid when taken out of the WWF/WCW environment.

[BurningHamster]

Seriously, nobody has even attempted the top 500 guys yet?

Shame on you all.

And Ric Flair is easily #1

[Hyde Hill]

Ok i´ll attempted but it wil be a work in progress and also I know nothing about the 70s so can´t coment on that and for the moment I wont be arranging them in numbers. Plus some run over into the early 00´s.

Hogan, Flair, Bret Hart, Michaels, HHH, Undertaker, Kane, Nash, Hall, Macho Man, Steamboat, Andre the Giant, Big Show, RVD, Jericho, Benoit, Angle, E Guerrero, Malenko, Raven, Kanyon, Juventud Guerrera, Scot Steiner, Sting, Jake Roberts, Ultimate Warrior, Rock, Stone Cold, Lesnar, Booker T, Goldberg, Owen Hart, Brain Pillman, Konan, Sean Waltman, DDP, Curt Henning, Arn Anderson, Barry Windham, Dusty Rhodes, Goldust, Roddy Roddy Piper, Mick Foley, Sabu, Tazz, Rick Rude, Jesse Ventura, Saturn, Edge,Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, Christian Cage, Psychoses, Ultimo Dragon, Jushin Thunder Lyger, Scot Norton, Rey Mysterio jr, Ted Dibiasi, Bam Bam Bigelow, Vampiro, Davey Boy Smith, Iron Shiek, Nikoloy Volkov, Paul Orndorff, Hawk, Animal, Keiji Mutoh, Dynamite Kid, Mart Janetty, Jimmy Snuka, Jerry Lawler, Billy Kidman, Tully Blanchard, Simmons, Bradshaw, Ax, Smash, Crush, Terry Funk, Dorry Funk jr, Shane Douglas, Honky Tonk Man, Coco B Ware, Vader, Jarret, Harley Race, Bob Backland, Lou Thesz, Junkyard Dog, Bob Orton,

wel thats at least a start help me with any I have missed and ill think some more too. I am mainly fuzzy on many of the 80s heels seeing as they where more fed to the faces in the beginning and I was kinda young so a total mark.

And no unfortunatly Hogan is number 1 for the shear fact if you even mention wrestling to non fans or people with no opinion on it and or never seen it they know and often say Hulk Hogan this even before his reality show. Without him no bigtime wrestling on t.v period. And no Ric Flair is not a major international draw only those places with a big WWE fanbase at the moment or WCW in the past. Many countries including mine (Holland) have no coverage at all of either since the 80s or ever at all. Flair can draw in the US and if accompanied in some other countries, Hogan can fill an arena anwhere.

Wel its a start and its 6 in the morning here so Some coudl be taken off in future so plz send in suggestions, btw I know squat about non ECW,WCW,WWF,TNA promotions so cant comment on them.

[SuperOwens]

Ok i´ll attempted but it wil be a work in progress and also I know nothing about the 70s so can´t coment on that and for the moment I wont be arranging them in numbers. Plus some run over into the early 00´s.

Hogan, Flair, Bret Hart, Michaels, HHH, Undertaker, Kane, Nash, Hall, Macho Man, Steamboat, Andre the Giant, Big Show, RVD, Jericho, Benoit, Angle, E Guerrero, Malenko, Raven, Kanyon, Juventud Guerrera, Scot Steiner, Sting, Jake Roberts, Ultimate Warrior, Rock, Stone Cold, Lesnar, Booker T, Goldberg, Owen Hart, Brain Pillman, Konan, Sean Waltman, DDP, Curt Henning, Arn Anderson, Barry Windham, Dusty Rhodes, Goldust, Roddy Roddy Piper, Mick Foley, Sabu, Tazz, Rick Rude, Jesse Ventura, Saturn, Edge,Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, Christian Cage, Psychoses, Ultimo Dragon, Jushin Thunder Lyger, Scot Norton, Rey Mysterio jr, Ted Dibiasi, Bam Bam Bigelow, Vampiro, Davey Boy Smith, Iron Shiek, Nikoloy Volkov, Paul Orndorff, Hawk, Animal, Demolition(all three forgot the names at the mo).

wel thats at least a start help me with any I have missed and ill think some more too. I am mainly fuzzy on many of the 80s heels seeing as they where more fed to the faces in the beginning and I was kinda young so a total mark.

And no unfortunatly Hogan is number 1 for the shear fact if you even mention wrestling to non fans or people with no opinion on it and or never seen it they know and often say Hulk Hogan this even before his reality show. Without him no bigtime wrestling on t.v period. And no Ric Flair is not a major international draw only those places with a big WWE fanbase at the moment or WCW in the past. Many countries including mine (Holland) have no coverage at all of either since the 80s or ever at all. Flair can draw in the US and if accompanied in some other countries, Hogan can fill an arena anwhere.

Wel its a start and its 6 in the morning here so Some coudl be taken off in future so plz send in suggestions, btw I know squat about non ECW,WCW,WWF,TNA promotions so cant comment on them.

Well, if your going to put Davey in there, you will have to include his vastly more talented cousin Tom Billington (The Dynamite Kid) I would include most of the Von Erich's as well. Hmm, Terry Bam Bam Gordy, hell all of the freebirds. The Funks would be in there for me as well.

Also for me, people like Demolition wouldn't be anywhere near the top 500, and id debate Sean Waltman as well

[Prophet]

I think Lawler should be included as well. Top 20-ish anyway. Sure, now, he's the voice of Raw who talks about the female body in small pet terms, but the man has held over 120 titles throughout his career, through different organizations. Not to mention his thrusting wrestling into the limelight long before Hogan, with the whole Andy Kaufman thing.

[scorpion]

I don't know if you're underestimating Flair or if I'm overestimating him due to his ascension to godhood in my home state, but Ric Flair is definitely an international draw. Not anywhere near the same level as Hogan in his prime, but who can compare to a record like that?

EDIT: And if you want to see something weird, do a YouTube search for some of Hogan's matches in Japan. The guy was surprisingly solid when taken out of the WWF/WCW environment.

Hogan was always a smart worker. He did what he needed to do to get over. That's why he always worked harder in Japan, he knew that the work he did in WWF/WCW wouldn't cut it over there.

[scorpion]

I think Lawler should be included as well. Top 20-ish anyway. Sure, now, he's the voice of Raw who talks about the female body in small pet terms, but the man has held over 120 titles throughout his career, through different organizations. Not to mention his thrusting wrestling into the limelight long before Hogan, with the whole Andy Kaufman thing.

While I agree that Lawler should be up there, I disagree that titles should be the deciding factor.

For example: (these are just WWF Titles)

La Resistance: 3x Tag Team Champions

Rockers: Never

British Bulldogs: once

or

Jeff Jarrett: 6x IC Champ, 4x WCW World Champ

Roddy Piper: 1x IC champ, never a world champ

[shamelessposer]

While I agree that Lawler should be up there, I disagree that titles should be the deciding factor.

For example: (these are just WWF Titles)

La Resistance: 3x Tag Team Champions

Rockers: Never

British Bulldogs: once

or

Jeff Jarrett: 6x IC Champ, 4x WCW World Champ

Roddy Piper: 1x IC champ, never a world champ

And Justin Credible has had more title reigns than all those guys combined.

[SuperOwens]

Id actually stick Jarrett in there, probably not a popular choice though.

Vader would be in too, Curt Hennig, Borris Malenko, Dean Malenko, Harley Race, Bruiser Brody, Bob Backland, Lou Thesz, Junkyard Dog, Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson.

Im sure i'll think of some more later :p

[scorpion]

Id actually stick Jarrett in there, probably not a popular choice though.

Vader would be in too, Curt Hennig, Borris Malenko, Dean Malenko, Harley Race, Bruiser Brody, Bob Backland, Lou Thesz, Junkyard Dog, Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson.

Im sure i'll think of some more later :p

I wasn't saying I didn't think Jarrett should be in the top 500, only that you couldn't rank him ahead of Piper because he "won more titles."

[djthefunkchris]

Sounds like a popularity thing here...

70's = Snuka
80's and 90's = Hogan
2000 = Rock/Austin

If your going by popularity/drawing crowds, these guys drew more then anyone.

Now, Flair was right there the whole time. He was never the biggest draw, but he was always RIGHT THERE at their tails, making sure they knew he was ready to step up.

Piper Ruled, no matter what title's he had. Everybit as Popular as Hogan during the first three Wrestlemania's, but Hogan drew more.

Ricky Steamboat was huge in the 80's as well. Many times people would talk more about his match then the main event.

If we are only talking popularity, and the ability to draw a crowd, then this shouldn't be "Brain Surgery". However, if we are to include other aspects, then this could be a huge thread.

Hogan has no equal... at least none to date. If there were a way to explain.... I mean, just talk to your relatives that don't know wrestling at all... Steve Austin to them is going to be the bionic man (The 6 million dollar man). The Rock "Might" be known.. but everyone will probably know exactly who Hulk Hogan is.

[Prophet]

While I agree that Lawler should be up there, I disagree that titles should be the deciding factor.

For example: (these are just WWF Titles)

La Resistance: 3x Tag Team Champions

Rockers: Never

British Bulldogs: once

or

Jeff Jarrett: 6x IC Champ, 4x WCW World Champ

Roddy Piper: 1x IC champ, never a world champ

Huh, I forgot that the Rockers were never officially tag champs. And my reference to Lawler winning as much gold as he has wasn't a stand alone standard, by any means. For me, it's an all encompassing thing. Popularity, inside and out of the ring, achievements wherever they've ventured, and skills. I think Snuka should be high on the list, but that's because he was innovative. How many wrestlers in the 90's and now say they saw Snuka jump from the cage, and thought "I want to do that." Sabu was doing moonsaults before anyone in the WWE knew how to spell it.

I just don't want it to sound like titles are the be all and end all, because that'd put the Warrior over Jake the Snake, and to me, that's just crazy. lol

[shamelessposer]

X-Pac belongs in the top fifty at least, maybe even top twenty.

I'm not remotely kidding here. He paved the way for almost every flippy wrestler to get national attention in the US for the last ten or fifteen years.

[scorpion]

I don't know if I like calling it popularity, though I guess in some ways it is

I just have a very old school approach to wrestling. I look at it this way:

What is the job of a wrestler:
A. Cut great Promos
B. Put on great matches
C. Put butts in seats

C is clearly the answer. Now, a wrestler has to do some combination of the first two, along with the angles, and their look, to make C happen. Is Shawn Michaels considered a better "worker" than Hulk Hogan. By most accounts, yes. But Hulk didn't need to be Shawn Michaels, he got over just being what he was. As a smaller worker, Shawn HAD to do more to get over. Why do you see guys killing themselves on the Indy scene? Because, right or wrong, they don't think people would pay to see them otherwise. RoH, is another good example. Those guys put on great matches, but its meaningless and Gabe would shut down the company if no one was paying to see it. But, thats just my way of viewing wrestling. Everybody has different views and thats why putting together a "top list" is so interesting.

[tristram]

Though Hogan is for sure more well known than Flair, I think you might be selling Flair a bit short. After Hogan and The Rock, Flair may have the most name recognition of everyone left. Remember, Flair carried the NWA for YEARS and would have been more successful in WWF in the early 90's had it not been for Hogan's ego.

Sadly, he's right. If I went up to my bro and said wrestling, he'd say Hulk Hogan. If I said I think Ric Flair's better, he'd go... who?

EVERYONE knows Hulk Hogan. EVERYONE knows the Rock. Those two guys are mainstream.

[SHaynes23]

Can't believe we are even having this discussion...

Norman Smiley, hands down.

[Hyde Hill]

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys ill go edit later on like I said not a definitife list and not ranked (yet). I am using a combination of In Ring Skill, Titles, Overness, Promoi quality, influence in wrestling itself (backstage as wel as paving the way) etc Its one of them or a combination of those that get you in. I did the preliminary list at 6 in the morning already seeing some guys that have to get in I wil be editing. I will keep it US focused tough as I have minimal Japan and Mexico knowlidge so can´t decide there.

[BurningHamster]

X-Pac belongs in the top fifty at least, maybe even top twenty.

I'm not remotely kidding here. He paved the way for almost every flippy wrestler to get national attention in the US for the last ten or fifteen years.

Hahahahahahaha.

No offence to Mr. Waltman but I see him being more of a top 300 than a top 20 type of guy.

[djthefunkchris]

I don't know if I like calling it popularity, though I guess in some ways it is

I just have a very old school approach to wrestling. I look at it this way:

What is the job of a wrestler:
A. Cut great Promos
B. Put on great matches
C. Put butts in seats

C is clearly the answer. Now, a wrestler has to do some combination of the first two, along with the angles, and their look, to make C happen. Is Shawn Michaels considered a better "worker" than Hulk Hogan. By most accounts, yes. But Hulk didn't need to be Shawn Michaels, he got over just being what he was. As a smaller worker, Shawn HAD to do more to get over. Why do you see guys killing themselves on the Indy scene? Because, right or wrong, they don't think people would pay to see them otherwise. RoH, is another good example. Those guys put on great matches, but its meaningless and Gabe would shut down the company if no one was paying to see it. But, thats just my way of viewing wrestling. Everybody has different views and thats why putting together a "top list" is so interesting.

Hulk went over because of his gimmick, not his size. This was a time when every other wrestler was huge, not like today.... Especially by WWE standards. If you look at their roster today, and look at it back then with size in mind, you wouldn't believe it was the same promotion.

Hulk just had something going that was huge. Everyone wanted to be part of Hulkamania.

Shawn Michaels was NO WHERE near as small as he is today in his prime. He had that "Steriod" thing going, and if you watch for example, that match he had with Austin... He actually looked bigger then Austin. So saying he had to work harder, because of his size, and Hogan didnt' have to work that hard at it.. No! Hogan had a gimmick that made him who he was/is today. If you seen some of his oversea's stuff, especially in Japan, you wouldn't say anything about how good he is in the ring either. You would know he could get just as technical and work whatever style it took.

Hogan went through alot more then most wrestler's had to go through, just to get into the bussiness. Heck, they broke his ankle just to see if he would come back and try again. He come back the very next day, broken ankle and all.

I've never been a "Hulk Hogan" Fan, even back then. But I'm not going to sell him short by saying, All he had going was his size.

[justtxyank]

Hulk went over because of his gimmick, not his size. This was a time when every other wrestler was huge, not like today.... Especially by WWE standards. If you look at their roster today, and look at it back then with size in mind, you wouldn't believe it was the same promotion.

Hulk just had something going that was huge. Everyone wanted to be part of Hulkamania.

Shawn Michaels was NO WHERE near as small as he is today in his prime. He had that "Steriod" thing going, and if you watch for example, that match he had with Austin... He actually looked bigger then Austin. So saying he had to work harder, because of his size, and Hogan didnt' have to work that hard at it.. No! Hogan had a gimmick that made him who he was/is today. If you seen some of his oversea's stuff, especially in Japan, you wouldn't say anything about how good he is in the ring either. You would know he could get just as technical and work whatever style it took.

Hogan went through alot more then most wrestler's had to go through, just to get into the bussiness. Heck, they broke his ankle just to see if he would come back and try again. He come back the very next day, broken ankle and all.

I've never been a "Hulk Hogan" Fan, even back then. But I'm not going to sell him short by saying, All he had going was his size.

Great post. I don't know about the HBK/Steroid bit you put out there, but the stuff about Hogan is dead on.

Also, I'm a Flair mark, but it's just not disputable that Hogan is the more popular, bigger draw worldwide. He always has been. Hulk Hogan is the one wrestler who truly transcended the business and became an American Icon, not just a wrestling icon. Every wrestler alive today who's made more than a little bit of money owes it to Hulk Hogan.

HBK might be the most talented worker the business has ever produced in terms of skill and showmanship, but he never had the crowd in the palm of his hand like nor reached the legendary status of Flair or Hogan.

[Self]

In terms of being draws, the guys who deserve the highest places are Hogan, Rock and Austin. John Cena should also go up there, other than those 3 he's brought in more money than anyone (American promotions only). Maybe Undertaker and Randy Savage can be put higher, but he's above Bret, he's above Shawn, he's above Piper, and... well I'd put him above Flair, but that's mainly because I don't know much about NWA and Ric in general.

Of course, being a draw is only one part of the puzzle.

Interesting list you put up Hyde Hill. Given that there's 500 places, I'm sure they all make it on there, but a few would be so low down they wouldn't even matter. From what I remember about Scott Norton, he was a fairly decent, if bland 280lb dude. Nothing note-worthy. Kanyon is another guy. Innovative. Solid. He did a few interesting things in WCW and I liked him, but I couldn't see him breaking the top 200.

[Hyde Hill]

Well it is a top 500 hehe and I Will tweak as time goes by. Kamyon is for the innovator of offence and good angle stuf. Norton good wrestling big guy never got credit he deserved plus hugely over in Japan. nNever threat I will be editing and putting more guys in there and once I am at 500 time to kick people out.

[BurningHamster]

In terms of being draws, the guys who deserve the highest places are Hogan, Rock and Austin. John Cena should also go up there, other than those 3 he's brought in more money than anyone (American promotions only). Maybe Undertaker and Randy Savage can be put higher, but he's above Bret, he's above Shawn, he's above Piper, and... well I'd put him above Flair, but that's mainly because I don't know much about NWA and Ric in general.


Well since this is the 70's, 80's and 90's John Cena doesn't factor into it. Even if it did include the present decade I would punch someone in the face for rating Cena above the likes of Flair and Piper, and I am not a Cena hater. :D

I think it all depends on how this list is being calculated, if popularity or money drawn is the be all and end all then obviously you are going to get a different list than if we were looking primarily at in-ring talent, charisma and longevity of success. If looking at a combination of all of these things, then I think the list starts to even out a bit.

Oh yeah and djfunkthechris is right, Shawn Michaels in his prime was much larger than now, back then he looked a legit 230lbs as opposed to the 180ish he looks now.

[Self]

Oh yeah. Taking out the 00's... kinda cripples E&C, the Hardyz etc. I know they were around then, but that ladder match only happened in like October of 99 (thereabouts) before that match, none of them mattered. MAybe they scrape into the 400-500 range, but only if you're struggling.

I only meant Cena in front of Flair and Piper in terms of being a draw, not 'in-ring talent' wise. As I sort of said, I'm unsure whether Flair is above or below him in that financial sense.

I'm pushing the 'draw' aspect a lot, because it's the most tangible thing I can calculate. Plus someone has to speak up against the Cena/Hogan-haters and stop this list from becoming a smark's wet dream ;)

[Hyde Hill]

I am tryiong combination, but as I dont know much about the 70´s or non USA wrestling plz if nominating those guys if you want them in my list give me a reason, plus im sure im still missing plenty of the ones I do know but jsut havent thought of yet. And yeah no 00 so Cena doesnt factor in he would be top 500 if it did tough but not so big yet. Its still to early to see if he has sticking power.

I'm pushing the 'draw' aspect a lot, because it's the most tangible thing I can calculate. Plus someone has to speak up against the Cena/Hogan-haters and stop this list from becoming a smark's wet dream

I am trying to combine all three and yes pure drawing power matters no matter how bad a wrestler they where, Ultimate Warrior anyone? (hes on my list)

[scorpion]

Hulk went over because of his gimmick, not his size. This was a time when every other wrestler was huge, not like today.... Especially by WWE standards. If you look at their roster today, and look at it back then with size in mind, you wouldn't believe it was the same promotion.

Hulk just had something going that was huge. Everyone wanted to be part of Hulkamania.

Shawn Michaels was NO WHERE near as small as he is today in his prime. He had that "Steriod" thing going, and if you watch for example, that match he had with Austin... He actually looked bigger then Austin. So saying he had to work harder, because of his size, and Hogan didnt' have to work that hard at it.. No! Hogan had a gimmick that made him who he was/is today. If you seen some of his oversea's stuff, especially in Japan, you wouldn't say anything about how good he is in the ring either. You would know he could get just as technical and work whatever style it took.

Hogan went through alot more then most wrestler's had to go through, just to get into the bussiness. Heck, they broke his ankle just to see if he would come back and try again. He come back the very next day, broken ankle and all.

I've never been a "Hulk Hogan" Fan, even back then. But I'm not going to sell him short by saying, All he had going was his size.

And if you had read my posts you would know I wasn't knocking Hogan at all. You'd also know that I am familiar with his work in Japan.

Hogan was always a smart worker. He did what he needed to do to get over. That's why he always worked harder in Japan, he knew that the work he did in WWF/WCW wouldn't cut it over there.

There's no way Shawn Michaels gets the top spot, He's not even Top 5 in my opinion. If you are talking about 90's alone, maybe, but not including all three decades. Top spot goes to Hogan or Flair. Those two guys carried their respectful companies on their backs. I have a preference toward Flair, but Hogan did draw a lot more money. Right behind them I would put Andre the Giant. He was a huge draw everywhere he went. Prior to his body breaking down he was also a heck of a worker. After that I would have put more thought into who would be ranked where, but those are the top three to me.

I think you are looking at Hogan from a more inside view than I would. I look at it this way, Babe Ruth was a womanizing alcoholic, but that doesn't change the fact that he was the greatest of his time, maybe all time. Without Hulk Hogan there would be no WWE, at least not at the level it is today. Had Wrestlemania failed, Vince would have lost the company. Plus Hogan and Andre drew the biggest house ever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Hogan mark, I just respect what he did in the business. Plus, its not like Shawn ever refused to job.

As you can see, I have spent most of this thread sticking up for the Hulkster and pointing out why he should be number one. Now, where in this post did I say that Hogan got over on size alone?

I don't know if I like calling it popularity, though I guess in some ways it is

I just have a very old school approach to wrestling. I look at it this way:

What is the job of a wrestler:
A. Cut great Promos
B. Put on great matches
C. Put butts in seats

C is clearly the answer. Now, a wrestler has to do some combination of the first two, along with the angles, and their look, to make C happen. Is Shawn Michaels considered a better "worker" than Hulk Hogan. By most accounts, yes. But Hulk didn't need to be Shawn Michaels, he got over just being what he was. As a smaller worker, Shawn HAD to do more to get over. Why do you see guys killing themselves on the Indy scene? Because, right or wrong, they don't think people would pay to see them otherwise. RoH, is another good example. Those guys put on great matches, but its meaningless and Gabe would shut down the company if no one was paying to see it. But, thats just my way of viewing wrestling. Everybody has different views and thats why putting together a "top list" is so interesting.

I never did. I said Shawn was smaller and that's why he had to do crazier stuff to get over. (And I was referring to Shawn's size before his push, Rockers Days) I know what got Hogan over, I lived through it, I experienced it first hand. So please, before you criticize my point, make sure we're not already in agreement.

[djthefunkchris]

Now, where in this post did I say that Hogan got over on size alone?



I never did. I said Shawn was smaller and that's why he had to do crazier stuff to get over. (And I was referring to Shawn's size before his push, Rockers Days) I know what got Hogan over, I lived through it, I experienced it first hand. So please, before you criticize my point, make sure we're not already in agreement. /nod. I seen it, but I wanted to stress that, because the way I read the "Underlined" part, I felt that there was need to explain farther, even though you already have. Pluss, I read the posts, but didn't remember who made them. In a word "Sorry" :o.

The rest of this post isn't to debate any single person or people. I should have said that my last post. As I said though, I want to stress it was how it was worded, not how it was meant that made me feel compelled in the first place.

Self..... Piper and Flair both had sell out show's whereever they went at some points.

For those that were around and do realise these things, this is NOT to insult anyone's intelligence, what I'm about to explain.

The NWA, AWA, WWF, Georgia Wrestling, and all those "Little" promotions in DOTT were not so "SMALL" in real life. They drew... They had shows that were high rated, they were NOT just small shows you find at 3am somewhere. People actually raced home from school, work, etc. to catch some of these promotions. Sometimes when talking about these promotions of the past, I get the feeling people tend to think of them as "Old Fashioned INDIE Promotions". They were MUCH BIGGER.

Let me put this into a little perspective if I can. Wrestling before the 50's was selling out Madison Square Garden. Just to put some retrospect on these older promotions.

Now, the reason I say this, is because when talking about Flair, Hogan, Piper, Heck... Even people like Paul Orndorf (anyone want to start an Ondomania thing going?), were huge, big time stars back then. If you watched wrestling, you KNEW EXACTLY who they were. You can't compare Randy Savage or Jake "the Snake" to some Popular Indie guy, because they were WAY MORE OVER. IN TEW game terms, these guys wouldn't have worked for a regional promotion, because they would have been too small for them. However, they only had these promotions to work for. The Territories "Shared" the popularity of these wrestler's. So when thinking of these promotions, and the size of them, realise that the people that worked them were way bigger then the promotions themselves. The territories "shared" the wealth, so to speak, till WWF decided to say screw it (as well as AWA and some other's) and go national. Many of these promotions, if they wanted to at some point, could have gone national without much of a problem. The Territories, and the trust/shared/respect that they had for them is what held them from doing it, because popularity was not an issue.

The Gold Dust Trio at the turn of the century (1900's), was a National Promotion (for example).

Someone else might be able to explain a bit shorter, and more to the point then how I am coming accross *(as I reread it), hopefully. I just want the newer wrestling fans to realise that not only were they National (and many times, globally known) names, but I could just about get any of these character's as a 6" action figure as well...