Diary Writing Tips

[angeldelayette]

I'm not sure if this should be here or in the Dog Pound so I'm going to post this here for now and if it needs to be moved, it can.

I am just looking for some tips from some of the Diary Writers here as to what they would suggest for an aspiring writer. I figure this can go not just for me but for anyone writing a diary. If you have a tip or a suggestion, feel free to type it out here. I'm not looking for 'use this promotion or that promotion' or 'use real world, no, use Cornellverse' but moreso the diary style in general. Tips can be focused on either real world or Cornellverse, though.

[James Casey]

Clarity of expression is extremely important. I struggle with any diary that doesn't know use paragraph breaks, for example...

Whether it's section breaks, coloured text, bolded text, underlines, pictures... It really helps me as a reader to have segments clearly delineated so that I know what's going on, who's doing it... Whatever. A diary may be fantastic, but if I can't keep track of what's going on, I struggle to develop an interest in it.

I'd also suggest that before a diary starts you have some ideas about where the story is going to go. Will you have backstage intrigue, will it be kayfabe only, is there a back story, who are your main characters going to be... Don't just jump in and start writing with no plans in place - it's easy to spot someone who has no idea where their story is going, and unless it's clear that there's no overall goal and the writer is just telling the story of a wrestling-as-sport promotion, there needs to be some sort of narrative element - even just the promotion's own storylines :p

Oh, and before you start posting, start writing - I strongly advise any diary writer to put together at least three shows worth of material before they start posting, as it tells you how much work needs to go into the story, and also allows you to have a little spare material in the event that you don;t have time to play but want to keep the diary active :)

[Antithesis]

I think the more successful diaries tend to focus on entertaining the reader.

James calls the alternative "wrestling-as-sport promotion", I'd call it pretending it was a promotion in real life and that it actually wanted to make money.

Not that the two are mutually exclusive, but the preference seems to be towards narrative with particular love paid to humor in the Cornellverse diaries and what I'd call "worker building" in Real World diaries.

I also think its a bit unfair that people will criticize Cornellverse diaries for recycling the same workers when it happens in Real World diaries as well.

[Nevermore]

I very much agree with Casey's sentiment. I could give a list of things I like to see in a diary but it's a matter of personal taste. However, the main thing is an enthralling story.

To add to this, I would suggest making sure you have at least one thoroughly planned story arc. You don't necessarily need more (you could settle for simpler, shorter feuds in the undercard); one great story is better than a lot of less creative ones. So long as there is one reason for me to keep checking back and reading every show, I'll be hooked.

Also, write for yourself and not for praise. While praise is lovely and very much appreciated, you'll waste your time if you don't enjoy the stories you're telling.

Good luck ;).

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

[Wallbanger]

One thing that helps transform lists of show results into a diary is a strong cast of characters. Obviously you can't give every worker on your roster a deep backstory and tons of character development, but at minimum the protagonist (whether that's the user character or a key figure in the company you're playing) has to be someone that the audience can grab hold of and enjoy finding out what happens to them next. Hopefully you also have a handful of other characters that play 'supporting roles' to help add depth to your protagonist. Once you get to a point where those characters and their 'voices' are well established, they can transcend the booking and you don't have to worry as much about the diary falling apart just because the game isn't going the way you want.

To echo what James said above: If you have the story in mind, it gives purpose to your booking. Even with strong characters, if you don't have a place for them to go, you can tell, and more likely your audience can tell.

This is one of the reasons why I fell into a funk with Generations 08. I just don't really have a story to tell. In 07, both the main characters and the key elements of the backstory were firm in my mind from the beginning. So even when I burned out from writing, I knew what the rest of the story was and could pick it back up as I wanted, and even when I wasn't writing, I would find myself hashing out conversations between the characters that wouldn't take place for weeks in the future game-time.

[MattitudeV2]

Clarity of expression is extremely important. I struggle with any diary that doesn't know use paragraph breaks, for example...

Whether it's section breaks, coloured text, bolded text, underlines, pictures... It really helps me as a reader to have segments clearly delineated so that I know what's going on, who's doing it... Whatever. A diary may be fantastic, but if I can't keep track of what's going on, I struggle to develop an interest in it.

I'd also suggest that before a diary starts you have some ideas about where the story is going to go. Will you have backstage intrigue, will it be kayfabe only, is there a back story, who are your main characters going to be... Don't just jump in and start writing with no plans in place - it's easy to spot someone who has no idea where their story is going, and unless it's clear that there's no overall goal and the writer is just telling the story of a wrestling-as-sport promotion, there needs to be some sort of narrative element - even just the promotion's own storylines :p

Oh, and before you start posting, start writing - I strongly advise any diary writer to put together at least three shows worth of material before they start posting, as it tells you how much work needs to go into the story, and also allows you to have a little spare material in the event that you don;t have time to play but want to keep the diary active :)

I very much agree with Casey's sentiment. I could give a list of things I like to see in a diary but it's a matter of personal taste. However, the main thing is an enthralling story.

To add to this, I would suggest making sure you have at least one thoroughly planned story arc. You don't necessarily need more (you could settle for simpler, shorter feuds in the undercard); one great story is better than a lot of less creative ones. So long as there is one reason for me to keep checking back and reading every show, I'll be hooked.

Also, write for yourself and not for praise. While praise is lovely and very much appreciated, you'll waste your time if you don't enjoy the stories you're telling.

Good luck ;).

Quote The Raven
Nevermore


OK as I know I am one of the esteemed few,but I do have make a few shows before I post again(If Ever).Possibly build one long story the reason I state these things is that I've been watching old WWF of 1999(late 99),and was very intrigued. Thanks guys

Deezy out.

[shamelessposer]

If your English vocabulary isn't at least at a high school level, fix that before trying to write a diary. Ditto for punctuation. If you're a non-native speaker your readers are of course going to be more generous, but please don't write a diary if people regularly have trouble interpreting what you're trying to say in other posts on the forums.

Apostrophes are not used to pluralize. Admittedly this is an extension of my first point, but it's common enough and infuriating enough to deserve special mention.

It's spelled F-E-U-D. FEUD.

Very, very few people on the GDS boards care enough about match writeups to read one that goes past a couple of paragraphs. On the other hand, EWB has a very different board culture in which you're unlikely to have a well-received diary unless you do the long writeup thing.

Brevity is the soul of wit. Don't communicate in five sentences what could be communicated in one.

It's better to be regular than good. If you hold onto a single show writeup and keep revising it until it's just how you like it... it'll be three weeks between your first and second posts and your readership will have moved on. Putting out material on regular basis keeps people reading, but more importantly it helps you to improve your writing at a faster rate. You know how that "future star" on your roster gets better and better based on the number of matches he's in, not their quality? You're the same way.

Cliches are cliches because they work. If a story is predictable, that means that it makes enough sense that the audience can guess at where it's going. While that doesn't mean you should abandon any hope of originality, going too far out into left field can confuse your readers and scare them off.

On a related note, there's nothing wrong with stealing your diary's formatting from your favorite diary writer. The writer won't care, most of your readers won't notice, and there's a good chance that a contributing factor to the diary's popularity is that its format makes it easy to read.

Don't allow even a single character to become a Mary Sue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_sue). If you do, a small cadre of good writers will descend upon you in your sleep and kill you. No, seriously. That's how Hendrix died.

[lazorbeak]

Shameless Poser sure has a lot of negativity for a diary with uncommon usage in the title (and talk about "democraphics" in its second sentence). I kid, though. That Erin Bray is hot (wait, it's not the same person?).


There's a lot of good stuff here, but I can think of a few things that haven't been mentioned.

Don't try to outsmart readers

Sometimes people get frustrated that their shows are getting too predictable or whatever, and they start trying to outsmart the audience. It's stupid when the WWE does it (and they do), and it's stupid to do it in your own diary. Having Disco Inferno end Goldberg's streak with no build-up isn't exciting or original, it's just incredibly stupid booking.

Really, all of my advice should be to do the exact opposite of WCW booking from 1999 on.

DO Build Unique Characters

The best thing a diary writer can do is make its readers care about the characters, and the best way to do that is to create unique, distinct characters. Real World diaries have the advantage that you can base your characterizations off of real figures- youtube is a great resource for understanding how a guy like Lex Luger or whoever cuts a promo (mostly they try to get out of their shirt). On the other hand, C-verse diaries lets you build up personalities around the bare bones outline.

Having a bunch of guys that all want the belt, with no personality or distinction, is boring. There's basic types- monster heels, underdog faces, ****y heels, bad-ass/extreme faces, etc., and from those basic types you create characters that are recognizable and interesting.

Also, keep in mind that the level of characterization should always be proportional to the amount of time a worker is on the screen, which usually but not always corresponds to card position.

DO Write Individualized Promos

The best way to develop character is through promos, and that means writing promos in different voices. Once you have a character developed, you can establish the reasons they have for punching and kicking people they barely know.

DO Keep After It

I think the best way to improve at diary writing is to write a diary and keep writing it. As has been said, you have to be writing for yourself.

DO Have Fun

If writing your diary is an arduous chore, anyone reading it will be able to tell. It's not some kind of ethical obligation, it's supposed to be fun.

[shamelessposer]

Shameless Poser sure has a lot of negativity for a diary with uncommon usage in the title (and talk about "democraphics" in its second sentence). I kid, though. That Erin Bray is hot (wait, it's not the same person?).

Uncommon usage? How so?

And, um, yeah. "Democraphics" goes to show that people who complain about other peoples' spelling are the ones most likely to screw up in an immediately noticeable way. Argh.

[Nevermore]

Uncommon usage? How so?

Woefully off-topic but still...

I would imagine he is referring to "An MAW Story" which, gramatically, should be "A MAW Story". Grammar does not extend to phonetics.

That is very technical, though.

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

[ColtCabana]

Make sure you have time to commit to the amount of shows your chosen promotion has. Also make sure you have future plans and maybe a months worth of shows written down before you start posting.

[keefmoon]

Pretty much what has gone before is good advice. The ultimate thing is you enjoy it. People can tell when you're not and personally I think my worst stuff has been when I've been posting as I felt I owed the readers rather than because I wanted to do it.

I think spelling and punctuation are vital, I won't read one that isn't coherent, no matter how good their stories are. Same goes for presentation. I don't care if you have an all singing, all dancing video diary or simple text based shows. As long as it's easy on the eye (not tiny text, relavent bits are separated, etc) I'm happy. See the likes of Nevermore or Tristram in this regard. Nothing fancy, but easy to keep up with.

I also think it's a good idea to read through diaries that are highly regarded on here. Nevvy's ECW Worldwide, Tristram's WCW DOWCW? or Prequel to DOWCW, J-Silver's USPW Over 65's, Scapino's SWF/MWA This Means War etc are all highly rated, award winning diaries for a reason. Look at what they do to see what is popular.

Feel free to use other people as motivation or influence. There are some incredibly talented people on here and using stuff they have done to give you ideas is fine. Just make sure you don't copy, and anything you think is linked (for example, I've started incorporating a "Top 5" thing that are related to upcoming PPVs, like Top Five Icons Of Wembley, which is based on something Tristram did a while back) you should really ask the person who did it originally as a matter of courtesy.

You have to plan ahead. If you book one show and start a new diary you will lose peoples interest, and even if you come out with something good people won't give it the time of day. And if you are planning ahead, you start to build towards things which gives people a reason to want to keep checking in.

I find, and I know Tristram agrees with me because we've discussed it, that you can use anything as an influence. Something you see on TV, on a film, a book, on the web anything can be an influence. If you see something that happens on WWE that makes you think you could do better, incorporate it. I have an idea for a storyline based on something that happened in 24. There's so much creativity about, it is wasteful not to be influenced by it if you think it's a good idea and you can see how you can fit it in.

Everything else is sort of opinion. For example, I like a backstory, or out of ring bits (like the Bam Bam Exam in ECW Worldwide), or a bit of wit or humour. But that may not be to everyones taste.

But I stand by the first paragraph. The important thing is you enjoy it and want to do it. If people aren't in to it straight away or you don't get many responses don't get disheartened. If you are enjoying it just keep going and show people what you can do. If you post it, they will read :p

[Purple Cowboy]

I think the best advice I can give is do whatever you like and be consistent. Forget living up to anyone else's arbitrary "rules" or expectations (in fact, keep them as far out of your mind as possible [beer helps]).

[Candyman]

I would imagine he is referring to "An MAW Story" which, gramatically, should be "A MAW Story". Grammar does not extend to phonetics.


I apologize in advance for going so off topic, but I'll bring it back on topic at the end.

Only if you are pronouncing "MAW" as a word rhyming with paw. If MAW is spoken as "M-A-W" like WWE or TNA, then "an MAW" is grammatically correct. It is indeed the phonetic quality of the first letter, not the written representation of the letter. In most cases these are the same thing, but there are exceptions, such as the silent H, words beginning with a U pronounced like it begins with a Y, or words beginning with an O pronounced like it beings with a W. An honorable thing, a union vote, a one time thing. The same rule would apply to an words beginning M that are pronounced like they begin with an E, and it does apply when the letter itself is being pronounced. I threw an M-80 at an M&M bag.

Annnnyway....there are a lot of good tips in this thread already, but I wanted to add that it's important to post regularly once you start. My favorite diaries are the ones I know will be updated every day, and you're more likely to gain new readers if your diary is always on the first page.

[Karl_Kitsch]

Oh, and before you start posting, start writing - I strongly advise any diary writer to put together at least three shows worth of material before they start posting, as it tells you how much work needs to go into the story, and also allows you to have a little spare material in the event that you don;t have time to play but want to keep the diary active :)

I couldn't agree more! This has killed my previous Diaries, big time! I would say a month of a weekly show fed or six months of a monthly show fed is a deep enough backlog so that the first couple of entries can have some narrative thrust and foreshadowing.

[Nevermore]

In most cases these are the same thing, but there are exceptions, such as the silent H, words beginning with a U pronounced like it begins with a Y, or words beginning with an O pronounced like it beings with a W. An honorable thing, a union vote, a one time thing. The same rule would apply to an words beginning M that are pronounced like they begin with an E, and it does apply when the letter itself is being pronounced. I threw an M-80 at an M&M bag.

Granted, that's all true but absolutlely irrelevant. You've missed the point.

Only if you are pronouncing "MAW" as a word rhyming with paw. If MAW is spoken as "M-A-W" like WWE or TNA, then "an MAW" is grammatically correct. It is indeed the phonetic quality of the first letter, not the written representation of the letter.

This has nothing to do with the issue. "MAW" is a singular acronym.

Thus, "MAW", by its very nature, is a proper noun. As such, it should only be qualified by a singular preposition (i.e. "the") not a plural preposition ("a" or "an") which are only used in conjunction with common nouns. Therefore, due to the grammatical properties of the word, "an" is, in fact, in place to qualify the word "story" and, thus, is incorrect. Phonetics plays no part.

It's an example of many instances in spoken English where what is commonly said is not actually correct. As I stated, it is very technical and a bit of a harsh criticism... but true nontheless.

Again, sorry for straying off-topic but I figured it was worth clearing that up.

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

[Antithesis]

'The' is a preposition?

[d_w_w]

'The' is a preposition?

I think "the", "a", and "an" are actually articles. But, I'm a math nerd, not a writing nerd, so I could be wrong.

Anyhow - as for actual diary tips - it's simple, have fun. Make posts that you are comfortable with. No need to type up 10 pages per card, if you don't want to.

Also, don't worry about feedback, because you'll probably always be disappointed if you do.

[D-Lyrium]

They are indeed articles. But the rest of Nevermore's post holds true if you substitute the terms.

[Nevermore]

'The' is a preposition?

They are indeed articles. But the rest of Nevermore's post holds true if you substitute the terms.

Schoolboy :o.

Yes, they are articles. Sorry, I was rushing to write that as I'm half way through filling in uni related forms :rolleyes:.

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

[Astil]

I went to an advice form and an English lesson broke out.

[lazorbeak]

I'm glad it took over half a dozen posts for everyone to get one throw-away joke about being overly critical of poor grammar and spelling. :p


That brings me to an important diary writing tip- your title and subtitle should be informative without being long and boring. And avoid stuff like "WWE: done right!" or similarly out of hand bashing of existing companies, because I guarantee, it's already been done.


This is a personal preference, but for anyone starting a new diary, try not to immediately fire ten guys while bringing in every 'indy darling' you can get your hands on without a reason. Most diary writers gradually phase out workers they don't like, and then conveniently enough, play the "creative has nothing for them" and their contracts don't get renewed. But every established promotion has a roster, and no diary should overhaul an existing roster right away. There's nothing worse than reading a new diary where the WWE debuts AJ Styles, Alex Shelley and Raven on the same episode of Raw.

And if you have an idea that's been done a million times before, either execute it better or with enough originality that people will overlook it. I'm looking at you, everyone who brings in Paul Heyman as a diary concept.

[keefmoon]

This is a personal preference, but for anyone starting a new diary, try not to immediately fire ten guys while bringing in every 'indy darling' you can get your hands on without a reason. Most diary writers gradually phase out workers they don't like, and then conveniently enough, play the "creative has nothing for them" and their contracts don't get renewed. But every established promotion has a roster, and no diary should overhaul an existing roster right away. There's nothing worse than reading a new diary where the WWE debuts AJ Styles, Alex Shelley and Raven on the same episode of Raw.

I agree. You wouldn't be able to fire everyone on your firs tday because you don't like them and hire loads of unheard of indy guys in real life, so why do it in a diary? It's a lot more entertaining and challenging to see an author use the tools at their disposal to really get the best from who they have, with a gradually trickling of new talent coming in as and when it is appropriate and when they can do something with it.

I'm looking at you, everyone who brings in Paul Heyman as a diary concept.

I might be wrong, but could this be something to do with the fact that Paul Heyman is the most sensible choice for an Avatar when you start a game on the Know Your Role mod?

[James Casey]

I might be wrong, but could this be something to do with the fact that Paul Heyman is the most sensible choice for an Avatar when you start a game on the Know Your Role mod?

No, it's just a case of a lot of diary writers wanting to stick it to the McMahons :p

But yes, originality is important - but don't be wacky. Every idea has been done a hundred times before - you just have to come up with a way of making it interesting. The exact same scene played out the exact same way is just copying, but to pick an example from... keef's diary, I think, the WM20 contract signing where Benoit was to sign up to face HHH only for Michaels to interrupt, sing the contract himself and, by WWE logic, make it a three-way dance... Keef inverted that so it was Austin, Michaels and Owen playing the roles in that order.

Homaging stuff is fine - but there's a fine line between that and blatant copying :p

[Candyman]

This has nothing to do with the issue. "MAW" is a singular acronym.

Thus, "MAW", by its very nature, is a proper noun. As such, it should only be qualified by a singular preposition (i.e. "the") not a plural preposition ("a" or "an") which are only used in conjunction with common nouns. Therefore, due to the grammatical properties of the word, "an" is, in fact, in place to qualify the word "story" and, thus, is incorrect. Phonetics plays no part..


This is all completely irrevelent and the final conclusion is incorrect. The word it qualifies has nothing to do with it beyond determining whether "the" or "a"/"an" is grammatically correct. The usage of "a" or "an" is determined only by the initial sound of the following word. There are no exceptions. "MAW" begins with a vowel sound, which means "An MAW story" is grammatically correct.

I apologize again for going off topic, but I wanted to clarify. If Nevermore still sees things differently, we can agree to disagree, I don't want to hijack a very useful thread.

[D-Lyrium]

"MAW" begins with a vowel sound, which means "An MAW story" is grammatically correct.

Only if you pronounce each individual letter. As in "Em Ay Doubleyou".

If you pronounce it as one word - as in the mouth/stomach of an animal rhyming, loosely, with 'war' - it becomes 'A MAW Story'.

So, in conclusion, everyone's right. :p

[keefmoon]

The exact same scene played out the exact same way is just copying, but to pick an example from... keef's diary, I think, the WM20 contract signing where Benoit was to sign up to face HHH only for Michaels to interrupt, sing the contract himself and, by WWE logic, make it a three-way dance... Keef inverted that so it was Austin, Michaels and Owen playing the roles in that order.

Yeah, that was mine, and that was actually my first show. Problem was with mine that my save game wasn't intended to be a diary, and I had got a little ahead of myself. I didn't mind copying for a saved game, but unfrotunately my saved game became a diary with that segment included. It was sort of different, Owen coming to save Austin from a DX beatdown and all but instead turning on him to sign the contract, but yeah, pretty stolen :o

Normally I wouldn't think stuff like that was okay, it's too copied for my liking, but what could I do?! Besides, I think it's forgivable when you are putting Owen Hart in the main event of Wrestlemania!

[shamelessposer]

"MAW" begins with a vowel sound, which means "An MAW story" is grammatically correct.

I've never won an argument without saying anything before. Neat! :)

[Nevermore]

This is all completely irrevelent and the final conclusion is incorrect. The word it qualifies has nothing to do with it beyond determining whether "the" or "a"/"an" is grammatically correct. The usage of "a" or "an" is determined only by the initial sound of the following word. There are no exceptions. "MAW" begins with a vowel sound, which means "An MAW story" is grammatically correct.

You might think so but that's just completely incorrect; it has everything to do with the qualification.

As I have pointed out several times now, it is considered phonetically correct; it is not gramatically correct. This is particularly true if you are English as we don't change the language every year.

Believe it or don't but it is correct.

Much like most people pronounce "hotel" or "garage" incorrectly and think nothing of it; just as people now seem to end senteces with prepositions; or, indeed, mixing tenses within a sentence as I just have to make a point :p. There are many things in the English language that are mistakenly believed to be correct or acceptable that, technically, are not. Check the full OED section on "The qualification of articles" ;).

Now, this can go to pm if you like but I'm gonna bow out of this as I am actually 100% certain that I am correct, having tought this very topic to Advanced GCE students only a year ago as a tutor.

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

[Liamo]

Out of interest, how do people like to see matches written up? I know most diaries are summeraries written from the point of view of the booker, but do people prefere that of full, hold for hold matches? I've been planning on writting a diary using TEW to book and WreSpi2 to see how matches would go, only changing the endings to meet my needs, but I dunno if people would want to read 3/4/5 paragraphs of text for Robbie Retro vs. Big Smack Scott.

[D-Lyrium]

Personally, I never bother with diaries that have long, drawn-out match write-ups. I just don't see the point. If I was reading a published novel, then sure. But at the end of the day it's a diary on the forum - one of many I'll read in an evening - and I don't have the time or the inclination to sit through a hold-by-hold account of what happened. Just tell the story and get on with it, man! :p There's a time and a place, and this isn't it in my opinion.

That is, of course, purely my opinion, although I think you'll find it shared by the majority.

If it's a particularly special match, then sure... give it a longer write-up, but even then there's no need for "and he did this, then the other guy did this, which was countered into a-" bored already.

If you want an example of what I consider top-drawer long match writing without going over the top into the no-man's-land of boredom:
http://67.19.230.90/~arles/forum/showthread.php?t=21681

Tigerkinney's Burning Hammer diary from last year, especially towards the latter parts of the dynasty, where he started only writing out fully the A* matches and the title matches, etc. That diary was awesome. They might be hold-by-hold in some cases, and they might be rather long, but they're snappy. Very rarely is there a huge block of holds and counter holds and hyperbole.

(and even in that diary I skimmed some of the matches that didn't interest me much. But when kinney reads this, he magically won't be able to see these parentheses ;)... ¬_¬).

[Tigerkinney]

If it's a particularly special match, then sure... give it a longer write-up, but even then there's no need for "and he did this, then the other guy did this, which was countered into a-" bored already.

Tigerkinney's Burning Hammer diary from last year, especially towards the latter parts of the dynasty, where he started only writing out fully the A* matches and the title matches, etc. That diary was awesome. They might be hold-by-hold in some cases, and they might be rather long, but they're snappy. Very rarely is there a huge block of holds and counter holds and hyperbole.



Even though my write-ups are long, I think I do at least have the sense to realise that people wont want to read a synopis of every mundane move each wrestler does

' Wrestler 1 put wrestler 2 into a hammerlock, but that was countered into another hammerlock by wrestler 2, wrestler 1 then slipped out of that and took down wrestler 1 with an arm-drag, who countered with his own arm-drag and applied another hammerlock.....'

When a line like 'they began the match with some low key chain wrestling' will suffice.

[infinitywpi]

www.tvtropes.org has an entire section of tropes related to pro wrestling; if you're stuck for soemthing to do (plotwise, character-wise, whatever) a good read through there shoudl generate at least a half-dozen to dozen things to add to your diary.

[benjacko]

Something i've wondered about is how people set out their storylines and plans for their diaries.

Do you use a pad and pen or a word document and how do you set things out?.

[shamelessposer]

www.tvtropes.org has an entire section of tropes related to pro wrestling; if you're stuck for soemthing to do (plotwise, character-wise, whatever) a good read through there shoudl generate at least a half-dozen to dozen things to add to your diary.

I'd never thought to use tvtropes.org as a way to mine for story ideas, and I've been reading it for months.

A warning to newcomers, though: It's the kind of site where you'll suddenly look up and realize you've been following links to other articles for the last eight hours.

[shamelessposer]

Something i've wondered about is how people set out their storylines and plans for their diaries.

Do you use a pad and pen or a word document and how do you set things out?.

I use Notepad for my writeups or just do them in the browser window, since none of the Word formatting is going to carry over to my diary anyway.

I also like Wordpad. It's got most of the features you're likely to want when trying to keep things organized without any of the bloat you'd get from Office. Come to think of it, OpenOffice is good for that too and it's a free download.

[James Casey]

I use Word. I switch between my home and office computer anyway.

Typically, I'll sit down at the start of a cycle (which in MAW would constitute either Feb-Oct or Nov-Jan for the build-up to the two big shows on the calendar) and work out what the main storyline for the cycle is going to be.

I'll then work out my subsidiary storylines - I like to have about four running, of various prominences - and when and how they'll start. Intertwining storylines is fun, so I'll have a couple of shows where the paths cross.

I work to a calendar with all my major shows on, and add the matches and plot points as I go. By the time it comes to writing the show, I'll probably have between ten and fifteen points listed, which will form the outline fo the show - matches, angles and so on.

I find it helps to have a goal in mind. I know, for example, what the main event of the my big show in October 2011 will be - and have done so since summer 2010. It may change over time, but it gives me something to work to. This is originally how the WWE used to plan its years, building to the big climax at WM, although in recent years of course there's been more and more shows on the calendar and WM doesn't necessarily get the full year-long build anymore...

[lazorbeak]

Something i've wondered about is how people set out their storylines and plans for their diaries.

Do you use a pad and pen or a word document and how do you set things out?.

I don't subscribe to the whole "know next year's main event" philosophy; there's too many variables for me to take the time to write something like that down. I don't know who's going to be working for me in 12 months, half the time. Stuff like injuries, behavior and chemistry can change plans on the fly. I also don't book outcomes in about 70% of my matches, and I keep most storyline ideas in my head.

But, when it comes time to actually writing the diary, I've already booked out at least a few weeks ahead (usually to the next PPV), so that I can properly foreshadow individual storylines, similar to a mystery writer starting with the ending and working backwards.

[Purple Cowboy]

Something i've wondered about is how people set out their storylines and plans for their diaries.

Do you use a pad and pen or a word document and how do you set things out?.

Recently I've been using a spreadsheet with tabs for each of my workers so I can chart good/bad chemistry, match dates, times & grades, etc.. After a few months of booking I get a pretty good base of information to consult for future cards (if I haven't bungled things up too much by that point, of course!).

[Bigpapa42]

Just a suggestion from a reader...

After reading previous comments (here and elsewhere) that taking over a promotion and signing a bunch of new indy talent is unrealistic and unreasonable, I have to disagree to an extent. I think its a possibility to make it work in a somewhat realistic sense. Depending on how a new booker is being introduced, its reasonable that it could represent a period of changeover for a promotion. Having half the roster replaced is not realistic, and neither is having 15 more wrestlers than you need. And while I can see the appeal of "working with what you have", promotions do make changes, so a major change like the booker could certainly be a catalyst for some roster changes as well. If you are creative with it, I think it can work.

To give an example, in my current SWF game (I'm doing an off-site "franchise report" on it), I signed a whole bunch of young guys. The "real world" storyline to justify it is that Eisen is worried about "generational turnover" since a lot of top SWF guys are 30+. So he snaps up a bunch of the future stars, creating what he dubs "Generation Supreme" of guys under 25 at the start - which also provides the name for a new B TV show! Only a couple start out on the main roster - most go down to RIPW. They debut gradually, one or two a month, and usually with good reason and decent story behind each.

I think there's a lot you can get away with in a diary - whether its doing the prototypical things like signing a bunch of new talent, reusing old storylines, etc - if you can do it with just a bit of creativity.

[shipshirt]

To give an example, in my current SWF game (I'm doing an off-site "franchise report" on it), I signed a whole bunch of young guys. The "real world" storyline to justify it is that Eisen is worried about "generational turnover" since a lot of top SWF guys are 30+. So he snaps up a bunch of the future stars, creating what he dubs "Generation Supreme" of guys under 25 at the start - which also provides the name for a new B TV show! Only a couple start out on the main roster - most go down to RIPW. They debut gradually, one or two a month, and usually with good reason and decent story behind each.


Well, that's the key right there and is the difference between what you're talking about and what the other posters are referring to. From my reading, they are talking about taking over a promotion and completely retooling the roster in less than a month's game time.

[scorpion]

Well, that's the key right there and is the difference between what you're talking about and what the other posters are referring to. From my reading, they are talking about taking over a promotion and completely retooling the roster in less than a month's game time.

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with the approach BigPapa outlined.

On the other hand, if the first post reads like this:

Having been handed the reigns of WWE, I fired Bradshaw, Mark Henry and every other wrestler smarks hate and signed the entire roster of RoH to replace them.

I won't read past the first post. On a similar note, and this may just be me, but I can't get into scenario diaries where the person puts all cards in their favor. For example:

Shane and Vince have a falling out and every popular and talented worker is now on my roster.

If your going to create a scenario, make it challenging. It makes it more interesting to read.

[lazorbeak]

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with the approach BigPapa outlined.

On the other hand, if the first post reads like this:

Having been handed the reigns of WWE, I fired Bradshaw, Mark Henry and every other wrestler smarks hate and signed the entire roster of RoH to replace them.

I won't read past the first post. On a similar note, and this may just be me, but I can't get into scenario diaries where the person puts all cards in their favor. For example:

Shane and Vince have a falling out and every popular and talented worker is now on my roster.

If your going to create a scenario, make it challenging. It makes it more interesting to read.


Man, you make it sound like so much fun, I almost want to start up a WWE diary. On top of firing those lugs, I'll give Sean O'Haire the push he always deserved, push Jamie Noble into the title picture, feud Bryan Danielson and Christopher Daniels in the main event, have the Undertaker job to Kane, and have my user character start a relationship with Mickie James or Kelly Kelly (but fire the rest of the division, because smarks hate girls).

Plus, it'll have backstage segments where respected WWE staff members are revealed to be semi-literate morons, barely capable of speech (and Michael Hayes). Even though my shows will probably suck, Vince will defend me in every meeting, giving me the love my (I mean, my character's) father never gave me. Also, when my user character's not banging a women's champion or high fiving Vince McMahon, he's a raging alcoholic and drug addict, because that's also cool. Plus, I'm going to hire Paul Heyman and let him book ECW. Oops, I'm canceling ECW and merging it with Smackdown. He can have that.

Oh, and I got the job from a surprise phone call during a high-stakes game of poker.

On the subject of new talent:

After reading previous comments (here and elsewhere) that taking over a promotion and signing a bunch of new indy talent is unrealistic and unreasonable, I have to disagree to an extent.

Actually, I think you agree with me.

try not to immediately fire ten guys while bringing in every 'indy darling' you can get your hands on without a reason.

You set up a system where you introduced some new guys, staggered over the course of several months, as storylines dictate? That's hardly an immediate, purposeless addition.

[scorpion]

lazorbeak, just to clarify, you do know I was in agreement you, right?

[ColtCabana]

I'd never thought to use tvtropes.org as a way to mine for story ideas, and I've been reading it for months.

A warning to newcomers, though: It's the kind of site where you'll suddenly look up and realize you've been following links to other articles for the last eight hours.

That's what happened to me last night :o

[G-Prime]

That's what happened to me last night :o

It happened to me one week. Every night, it's all I did.

[James Casey]

*Raises hand* Same here...

I was up 'til nearly two am on Tuesday night and, given that monday night I didn't sleep 'til one and was up at half-six, I'm still feeling a bit slleep deprived.

All that, and Mafia too... Damn you, infinity!!! :p

And if I was booking WWE (never again, the only game I ever got fired on was a SmackDown diary game :() The only major change I'd make would be building genuine tag divisions on at least two of the three brands.

Oh, and having Jamie Noble win the odd match again. Ditto Scotty Goldman, if he hasn't started winning yet.

SWF, on the other hand... :p

[NoNeck]

I think that realizing that you're putting something out for public consumption is just as valid a tip as doing it for your own enjoyment.

Not that they are mutally exclusive positions, but the folks that read and leave comments in my diary are constantly making me think like a viewer/reader rather than as the writer behind it. In some ways, I get so married to my ideas that I can paint myself into corners without realizing it. But the readers are always there to point out when I'm bunking someone a lot, or have forgotten about someone that seemed to be getting a push or having a story, etc, so I try to give them the courtesy of listening to their ideas and incorporating the best ones as often as I can.

How badass would it be if you could tell the WWE each week what you liked and didn't like and every once in a while you saw them do something that was done entirely to make you in particular mark out? They can't, but I can. :cool:

I guess my point is that saying you do it for yourself is great, but for me, the interaction has been the coolest part by far.

Otherwise, I would echo a lot of what the folks on here have already said, especially concerning characterization. Awesome characters in bland situations will hold my interest a lot longer bland characters in awesome situations.

This is a great thread, by the way. Good idea.

[juggaloninjalee]

I really am enjoying this thread. I find myself doing diaries occasionally only to find myself disappointed because I dont like the characters I have developed or I feel it just isnt good enough for me to display.

[shipshirt]

I guess my point is that saying you do it for yourself is great, but for me, the interaction has been the coolest part by far.


I agree 100% on this. I do the diary for myself to entertain me as a way to relax...but by the same token, I also want the people taking time out of their day to read it to enjoy it and get into the storylines and characters. Hearing what people like (and even what they didn't) is a lot of fun.

Also, another way to get ideas for storylines is to WATCH and READ ABOUT old school wrestling. There are a ton of good storylines from 20-30 years ago that you can adapt or just outright do as is in current settings. You'll also get ideas for ways to branch off or adapt them as well.

[D-Lyrium]

Depending on the style of your fed, you'd be surprised how many TV show/film/video game storylines you can adapt to wrestling, too.

Now, if only I could find a style I like writing and a fed I like writing for long enough to actually put some of them into action...

[shipshirt]

Depending on the style of your fed, you'd be surprised how many TV show/film/video game storylines you can adapt to wrestling, too.

Now, if only I could find a style I like writing and a fed I like writing for long enough to actually put some of them into action...

Yeah the Joseph Campbell "Hero's Journey" formula would make a nice storyline that could go a lot of different ways.

[Hyde Hill]

or I feel it just isnt good enough for me to display.

had the same feeling went ahead anyway and it got a positive response so I am happy. BTW mine is not dead just have some very important real life stuff now as I didn't follow up the tip of writing out mulitple shows before posting and I can now so see that that is a good idea.

[angeldelayette]

Ironic that I originally started this thread because I was planning on creating a new diary and just wanted to get some tips on how to get things started. LOL. That diary will be coming soon, by the way.

[juggaloninjalee]

Ironic that I originally started this thread because I was planning on creating a new diary and just wanted to get some tips on how to get things started. LOL. That diary will be coming soon, by the way.

What promotion are you going to use and stuff? If its a Cornellverse diary I will probably check it out.

[angeldelayette]

What promotion are you going to use and stuff? If its a Cornellverse diary I will probably check it out.

I still have my USPW Cornvellverse diary out there but the one I am focusing on is my ECWA diary (Real World 1991) I just got started.

http://67.19.230.90/~arles/forum/showthread.php?t=34997

Everyone feel free to come in and make your predictions!

[James Casey]

Here's a question I've wondered about of late...

How do people imagine the whole chemistry issue? I keep getting matches with no/pretty good/excellent chemsitry reports, and wonder how that looks.

I sort of imagine it as interrupting the flow, the wrestlers just not meshing well, so there's no smooth transition from one move to the next as they're pulling in different directions.

How do other people see it?

[ColtCabana]

Here's a question I've wondered about of late...

How do people imagine the whole chemistry issue? I keep getting matches with no/pretty good/excellent chemsitry reports, and wonder how that looks.

I sort of imagine it as interrupting the flow, the wrestlers just not meshing well, so there's no smooth transition from one move to the next as they're pulling in different directions.

How do other people see it?

More botches, very false or fake looking match and poor crowd interaction, thats how I see it.

[D-Lyrium]

I see chemistry as a sort of 'unspoken understanding' between two people. You can get it in any sport, like in football/soccer: the unspoken understanding between a strike partnership (Sutton and Shearer and Blackburn, Henry and Bergkamp, Yorke and Cole, Rush and Fowler). Sure, you can get decent strike partnerships that score loads of goals, like Keane and Berbatov, or Vassel and Angel, but then you get partnerships that go beyond that and play as if they're the same mind controlling two bodies. Being part of a great partnership can push you on to a level that you couldn't reach with anyone else (see Sutton, Chris).

To bring this back to wrestling, I think of chemistry as two workers who instinctively know what the other is going to do, possibly because it's the same thing he'd do in a given situation or he knows him well enough to know that it's what he ususally does.

The thing with chemistry is, there aren't really any memorable examples in wrestling (other than the 'fab four', Angle, Jericho, Benoit and Guerrero, who all had it with each other) because it's not a tangible thing. It's just sort of... there. It's like a good movie soundtrack; you only notice it when it's bad. If it's good, it's doing it's job, so you don't notice it.

[Nevermore]

The thing with chemistry is, there aren't really any memorable examples in wrestling (other than the 'fab four', Angle, Jericho, Benoit and Guerrero, who all had it with each other) because it's not a tangible thing. It's just sort of... there. It's like a good movie soundtrack; you only notice it when it's bad. If it's good, it's doing it's job, so you don't notice it.

Woah... dude...

Van Dam and Lynn! They woud always combine for brilliance! In fact, by the end, you'd see pretty lacklustre matches (even with Lynn in them) and, then, as soon as those two were billed against each other, the caliber was quite amazing.

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

[Tigerkinney]

The thing with chemistry is, there aren't really any memorable examples in wrestling (other than the 'fab four', Angle, Jericho, Benoit and Guerrero, who all had it with each other) because it's not a tangible thing. It's just sort of... there. It's like a good movie soundtrack; you only notice it when it's bad. If it's good, it's doing it's job, so you don't notice it.

One possible example of great chemistry, both as opponents and tag partners is A.J Styles and Christopher Daniels in TNA. Such a shame that Daniels is being wasted with that goofy Curryman gimmick these days.

Another one is Roderick Strong and Erik Strong in ROH/FIP. They've had some enthralling hard hitting brawls against one another all year and that may well be down to good chemistry with one another.

[D-Lyrium]

Yeah, you can name people who had it with other people, but can you name WHY?

Can you pinpoint specific sequences and say "that's good chemistry in action"?

[James Casey]

There's one RVD/Lynn match... Think it might have been their last in ECW.

RVD went for a high kick, which Lynn ducked. RVD went for a low sweep, which Lynn leapt over. Then, on the way down, Lynn hit a legdrop across the back of RVD's head. I've always seen that as chemistry, as it wasn't called - and while I suppose it could have been prepared beforehand, it just felt like a spur of the moment thing.

[Karl_Kitsch]

My best example of chemistry is Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels. Every single time they got in the ring together, it was magical. Both men were at or near their best when wrestling each other, in my opinion.

[Nevermore]

There's one RVD/Lynn match... Think it might have been their last in ECW.

The last ever match in ECW too.

They pulled a lot of amazing stuff like that off. I've always loved the "corner sequence" in the match they had at Living Dangerously '99!

My best example of chemistry is Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels. Every single time they got in the ring together, it was magical. Both men were at or near their best when wrestling each other, in my opinion.

I have to disagree.

It's Shawn Michaels... everyone looks "magical" when going up against him, chemistry or not. Can you think of a single feud or even proper main event match where at the end you weren't left completely satisfied? The man is a semi-god.

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

[foolinc]

Yeah, you can name people who had it with other people, but can you name WHY?

Can you pinpoint specific sequences and say "that's good chemistry in action"?

While I can't pick out moments, I know that Danielson and Joe have chemistry. Why? Because Bryan said so.

[Tweek It]

The whole chemistry thing for me has played well with who I have used as announcing team. I signed Remmington Remus and Ray Smalls (a random announcer) and they have excellent chemistry together. I see this as Styles/Gertner type thing or Lawler/Ross. As they just seem to flow well together because they worked with each other for so long.

[Bigpapa42]

Here's a couple kind of random questions about diaries... One, any issues with using "adult language"? Not massive amounts of profanity or anything, but is throwing the occassional one in there going to cause issue? Two, it seems like most diaries on here use the prediction game format... which is obviously a good way to draw the reading in. But is there any problem with not really doing that?

[infinitywpi]

I've never really liked the prediction game format. It always seemed like a cheap ploy to get more posts and views in a short amount of itme, like some sort of deranged version of the Nielsen Ratings or something. I figure, if someone wants to comment on my diaries, they will.

Granted, it means I get depressed when nobody does, but eh. Someone's reading, that's good enough for me.

[Nevermore]

I've never really liked the prediction game format. It always seemed like a cheap ploy to get more posts and views in a short amount of itme, like some sort of deranged version of the Nielsen Ratings or something. I figure, if someone wants to comment on my diaries, they will.

Granted, it means I get depressed when nobody does, but eh. Someone's reading, that's good enough for me.

I think they perform different functions. Good feedback is good feedback and, often, quite rare.

The "prediction game" serves two purposes in my mid:

Allows the readers to become involved a little more by telling you what they think or would do. Decent predictions will often come with an explanation.
I like to see if my stories are predictable. Sometimes an element of predictability is good; other times it's exactly what you don't want.


Quote The Raven
Nevermore

[keefmoon]

I think they perform different functions. Good feedback is good feedback and, often, quite rare.

The "prediction game" serves two purposes in my mid:

Allows the readers to become involved a little more by telling you what they think or would do. Decent predictions will often come with an explanation.
I like to see if my stories are predictable. Sometimes an element of predictability is good; other times it's exactly what you don't want.


Quote The Raven
Nevermore

Exactly. With RW diaries the feedback is far less than CV, so predictions is a way of people telling me what they think or where they think I'm going. I take in to account what people say in the predictions and often base my plans around it. For example, Jeff Jarrett's getting a somewhat of a push at the moment on mine, but if it wasn't for feedback in predictions I wouldn't know if people are behind it.

As for swearing, I say f*ckin' go for it. :p

[D-Lyrium]

Here's a couple kind of random questions about diaries... One, any issues with using "adult language"? Not massive amounts of profanity or anything, but is throwing the occassional one in there going to cause issue? Two, it seems like most diaries on here use the prediction game format... which is obviously a good way to draw the reading in. But is there any problem with not really doing that?

Adult language is automatically censored by the forum software, as at the end of the day these are the official forums of a professional company. Thus, technically, circumventing said censor in the manner keef just did is probably against the rules.

However... nobody really cares, especially in the dynasties section, so go nuts. :p

[Tigerkinney]

Here's a couple kind of random questions about diaries... One, any issues with using "adult language"? Not massive amounts of profanity or anything, but is throwing the occassional one in there going to cause issue? Two, it seems like most diaries on here use the prediction game format... which is obviously a good way to draw the reading in. But is there any problem with not really doing that?

The Prediction Game seems to be pretty well covered, so I'll concentrate on giving my opinion on diary's having adult language. To me it all depends on the product of the promotion you are running.

If the promotion has large amounts of 'Cult' (e.g PSW) then I see no problem with the workers effing and blinding in their promos, if however the promotion has large amounts of Mainstream and is more family friendly orientated (e.g USPW) then I don't think 'adult language' should be used- unless the writer states a change in the promotions product.

As good as J-Silvers USPW diary was, it did kind of irritate me in the end, when Darryl Devine's promo's ended up bit littered with profanity every other word. I know his USPW got a bit more 'edgier' as it went along, but I couldn't buy into the fact that it went from 'family friendly' to 'for adults only' in about the space of just one year.

[keefmoon]

Thus, technically, circumventing said censor in the manner keef just did is probably against the rules.

Sorry :o

Seriously though, I don't think there's anything wrong with a little bit of swearing if it's the right time and right place, or if it has a purpose that furthers what you are trying to say. So basically, the exact opposite of what I did.

[Scapino1974]

Just to echo and reiterate what's been said, especially from my point of view:

Most importantly, write for yourself. If you're having fun, it'll show in what you're doing and people will be drawn to it. In both of my diaries, I often wrote stuff just for myself and while I caught flack for it on more than one occasion, I just kept doing my thing.

The best example I can think of is the Survivors group. I originally created them just for "shiggles" and included them in my diary. If you go back and look at the beginning of the SWF diary, I had half a dozen people tell me to get rid of them. Personally, I'm glad I didn't. The Joel Kovach/Archangel interaction carried my SWF diary and really livened up the MWA diary.

In other words, do what you feel is best for your diary. You may not gain readers, but since you're not getting paid to write a diary, you'd better get something out of it. That something is fun.

Second, in my experience, it does help to have an overall story in mind, but it's not entirely necessary. When I started the SWF diary, I didn't have an overarching story to tell. I just worked things out as I went. When I wrote the MWA diary, I did have an overall idea of how the story would go. I knew Jerry Eisen's role. I knew how I wanted to work with that storyline. Now that doesn't mean that everything has to be written in stone or even written at all before you start.

That brings me to another point: it's good to at least have a stopping point in mind. A lot of dynasties just peter out and die. In both of my dynasties, I knew where I wanted to end and when the time came, I did. That helped me in the writing as well: I knew there was a stop point I was working toward, so when things got a little mired down (as they inevitably do), I could say "Just keep going. You're almost there."

To finish, I'll just describe the way I put together my diaries, especially the MWA one. I don't say that it's the best or only way to do it. It's just what worked for me. Feel free to take what you wish:

I would start by plotting out four months' worth of shows (either the big events or PPVs). Every match, what titles would be on the line, and who the winners would be. This was especially important for the larger storylines, such as the Karma, Apocalypse, and Family of Faith lines. You need to know where those huge storylines are going and this allowed me to see the big picture better.

I then took out a sheet of paper and made a chart with a square for each show in between the PPVs. I would label them by week and then I would ask myself, "How do I expect to get from where I am to the next PPV and then (usually) the one beyond that?" I would then jot down notes for how the angles and matches would play out. I would also pay attention to points where two storylines could dovetail together and mark that on the paper.

Once that was accomplished, I would sit down and write out the storylines in the editor. I found that I could usually fit about two months' worth of content into one storyline.

When it came time to write the shows, I would get about two or three shows written before I posted them, mostly so I could keep an eye out for surprises that would need to be explained.

As for the prediction game, I used it in my diaries not only to see if I was being too predictable (I usually was, much to my chagrin), but also to troll for ideas. Sometimes somebody would say something about how they thought a match would go and that would spark an idea I could use. There were even a few times when people's predictions would change the way my shows would play out.

I realize that this has probably gone into "tl;dr" territory, but there you go. Just thought I'd share. :)

[NoNeck]

Sometimes somebody would say something about how they thought a match would go and that would spark an idea I could use. There were even a few times when people's predictions would change the way my shows would play out.



Exactly. That's what I attempted to say back in my post. Thanks for getting it out correctly for me. :)

[angeldelayette]

Wow. I just realized that over a 2 year span I've started 26 diaries! LOL.

[juggaloninjalee]

This tip thread has helped me find motivation for a diary. I always love doing them and have plans but never really develope my characters enough to where me or my reader gets wrapped up in them. So today I was watching something on tv after work and I think it has given me some ideas that make a diary seem very enticing.

It has helped me come up with some very good storylines to build off of with a certain promotion that I envision. So yeah for my next diary that I will probably start next week I will be pulling from television storyline ideas instead of wrestling. I used to pull a lot of my ideas from storylines I remember in the old WWF and WCW days.

TV shows, cartoons, and movies are all great for building storylines I have decided.

[G-Prime]

Wow. I just realized that over a 2 year span I've started 26 diaries! LOL.

Not as bad as Deezy ;)

[juggaloninjalee]

Ive probably done about 5 in 2 years. Maybe less.

[MattitudeV2]

Not as bad as Deezy ;)

Wow could G-prime be anymore right but for all seriousness aside I believe this most recent diary will last for a while.

[tristram]

First things first,

Tip 1: Book a couple of months in TEW first. Sometimes for instance if you're a chronic WCW booker like me and you have the fascination of taking Benoit and Jericho to your cruscendo PPV, if they have no chemistry you can be off put. So that's the other thing, have a general plan, an image if you will, but nothing that's set in concrete. TEW, like professional wrestling itself, has an art of throwing your plans out the window and you have to be able to respond. Hell, if you can, book six months worth... if you have a massive story, book it out, see how it goes. Did it live up to your expectations? If you continually book it first, I think you'll find the storyline will flow so much better.

Tip 2: Write 3-4 of your shows in Word before posting them. Why? Because they take a long time to write and you need to feel comfortable that you have time to write them. Secondly, you can also make use of thesaurus' etc.

These two tips are important. Why? Because to me TEW has a major playability hook with setting up new games. Because frankly the biggest change any booker ever wants to make is changing their roster, in other words cutting jobbers and bringing in new stars. Real life pro bookers do it too. The question is, do you have anything beyond that? And not just that, but can you sustain something beyond that? I'd hasten to guess the average dynasty on here is about 4 shows, which is fairly sad. And I'd say that average is dragged down immensely by one showers, who then get 12 responses (great show etc etc), perhaps it should almost be fundamentally unwise to respond after one show but rather give more praise to those who have stuck it out, and have done more than put on an 'impact' show but developed a storyline, developed characters etc. To me, for that reason, nothing at the moment can overcome nevermore's ECW Worldwide. It's developed, you can sense the history, the intriuge. IMO, one of the most fundamentally frustrating things is to see a new version of TEW come out, and have to go to page 3 to see how ECW Worldwide is going because Joe Bloggs and the 34 sheep stooges have posted their once off phenomiums. Have some respect and if you want to have a go, have a think about it first, have some plans, have something written and booked, and THEN go for it.

Sorry, went off on a tangent.

Tip 3: Book with some sense of realism. It would be stupid to book Alex Wright to defeat Hulk Hogan in a steel cage match at the beginning of 1998. Hindsight tells many of us that Hogan for instance should have been managed better, but that's rhetorical nonsense. You'll find yourself struggling to book on because your overness and momentums will be everywhere and you will notice things aren't what they should be. For example, in DOWCW Chris Kanyon became WCW World Heavyweight Champion, it felt so much better getting that belt on him after investing time in developing his character and making the readers, let alone myself, believe there was a chance that with how he was developed he could be there. I hoped people could see in my imagination of what I saw.

Tip 4: Develop some unique characters.... slowly. Things take time. I like gimmicks, I will say that, I like them. I think it was Raemeon (sorry for the spelling) who booked Texas Pete just as I imagined him, like Yosemite Sam cowboy style. I loved it. That was the hook to me on his version of TCW.

Tip 5: Not every match is a great match. Sometimes for instance Jerry Flynn did fight the Barbarian. Don't be afraid to use some sense of humour and criticise yourself. But have that match still have meaning as well, let's say Jerry Flynn is part of Jimmy Hart's First Family, and he loses. And the Nasty Boys get pissed and decimate him post match to push themselves as genuine powerplayers. You've turned a meaningless job into something of meaning.

Tip 6: JOKE! Have a bit of fun. Have some play on words. Use some light hearted (realistically) interviews. If you're having fun, chances are us readers are too. One of the greatest ever diaries I read was J Silver's USPW. The bloke took the piss out of everything that was a struggling cult/national federation slightly overversed in golden oldies. Use your imagination, grab a pen and paper and just write down 10 funny things that COULD happen in pro wrestling and then book them in over your next month's programs.

Tip 7: Set the mood. What's going on? I used to roleplay in e-feds, and one of the best things I found was simply describing my character. What was his recent history? Why was he here? Did the clothes he wore have meaning to them? You have two characters facing off in the ring at the end of the show, tension is simmering, the big man is looking down at the little man. Is he looking into his eyes to send fear into him, or is he gazing down at his belt? Is he gazing down at the blood on his opponents face and smiling? What are your characters feeling? How do the crowd feel about it? (Realistically). Are they not buying it? Are they buying it?

Tip 8: Link. In the midcard match, someone undoes the steel turnbuckle. Of course the ring attendents put it back up, but what if it was put it dodgily and in the main event it cost someone a world title? Imagine the feuds. You've sorta then intermerged your midcard to get in with the big boys. Is there someone in the crowd that is watching on. What are they doing there? You're in Texas, is the guy with the cowboy hat in the crowd going to come into things? You know wrestlers get cheap pops on the mic, but surely you can imagine out setting based events? It's 1992, and somehow you've got Nirvana to play Smells Like Teen Spirit to introduce DDP, should DDP interact with them? Should his opponent trash the drum set? Should Krist of Nirvana then pull on his opponents foot to offset the opponent and cause a pinfall?

Tip 9: Finally, what is your point of difference? ECW Worldwide, you know nevermore is going to take wrestlers souls to hell and back with absolute carnage. If you're booking an indy fed in Texas, wouldn't you want to see a bunch of rednecks and cowboys and maybe some indians? Yes it's stereotypical, and that's an extreme, but what's your point of difference? Why is YOUR version of SWF different to Joe Blogg's? And for god's sakes, don't everyone go for an adaptation of the nWo, use imagination, craft, test your mind, find out what made you WANT to do this in the first place... in all likelihood it was because you wanted to do something different. So do it! If you do that, chances are you'll keep going, and we'll keep reading.

Edited: One more.

Tip 10: Interference. It is somewhat necessary to advance storylines and also to put on a good match on a house show that is really PPV quality but one where you don't want to kill off each other momentums. But it doesn't need to cost matches. It doesn't even need to be physical. Take Sting in 1997. The bloke sat in the rafters and caused losses for the nWo. He put them off. Take the 1998 Booker T-Chris Benoit-Fit Finlay situation, I think it was Chris Benoit who just walked down the aisle, caught the eye of Booker T and caused him to lose. What though if Fit Finlay rolls up Booker T and Booker T rolls through, and instead gets the pin? You have Booker T incensed with Benoit's arrival, and now Fit Finlay shattered. Three way matches galore.

Ultimately to me all these things equal

Be committed - don't arse around if you truly don't believe in it and you have no idea whether you'll last, out of respect for the guys who do bust their's day in day out
Be creative
Have fun at your own expense
Have a long term plan
Do something that sets yourself apart

[tristram]

Tip 6: JOKE! Have a bit of fun. Have some play on words. Use some light hearted (realistically) interviews. If you're having fun, chances are us readers are too. One of the greatest ever diaries I read was J Silver's USPW. The bloke took the piss out of everything that was a struggling cult/national federation slightly overversed in golden oldies. Use your imagination, grab a pen and paper and just write down 10 funny things that COULD happen in pro wrestling and then book them in over your next month's programs.


Just to draw on that one, two of my favourite things I did with DOWCW was Jeff Jarrett constantly harrassing Pamela Paulshock(ers) and D.I.C.K (from memory something like Disgruntled Individuals Collective Kin) which was simply a way for me to give I think it was Bam Bam Bigelow, Shane Douglas, Disco Inferno and someone else who frankly escapes me now a way of getitng on air, doing something that would humour me, and in so doing I hoped humoured others. I even gave D.I.C.K purple helmets, not just because to me it was crude humour but also to show that these guys were kinda a bit ... slow and didn't see the match to it all.

One last thing, one of the key reason's I rate nevermore so highly. It is as if every show there is a hidden agenda. An easter egg in computer gaming terms, if you will. There have been moments when the big ruse has been played out, much to everyone's surprise and as readers we're like well how in the hell did we miss that, and to finalise it all he has a prose setting where the antagonist tells how it was planned out. I think one such moment was with Paul Burchill and Raven, where nevermore had an indescrete moment from a show a long while back that you would have thought nothing of. But lo and behold, that one item from memory was the key to the lock. It made the whole promotion's roster fold like a stack of cards the way the an antagonists wanted. Simple things like setting out the lay out of a dressing room, perhaps there's a book or something you've mentioned being left on the couch and you've made out like it's meaningless and you're just telling it for the sake that that as is what your eye has seen, but in actual fact that book may have been a book of notes by a particular antagonist or something similar that places someone at the scene of the 'crime', or if you will the place where the antagonist formulated the plan for it to all occur.

I will long remember that prose nevermore put up, it was quite frankly at epic genius levels. I thoroughly wish VKM found out about this bloke and got him involved in the "E's" version of ECW, for while it would I'm sure have to be toned down, he could excite you with stories where everything that is happening has meaning, whether you know it or not, and like all good soaps of the day you keep coming back to it because something is always happening, conflict is always arising, and he leaves you in a constant state of "I had X amount of questions unanswered, but while he answered some, I've left that show with more and more questions I want answered...ahh, I better read what happens next."

[juggaloninjalee]

Its official. Today I will buy TEW08 due to this thread giving me great ideas and making me really wanna get a good diary going. So thank you to all of you who have posted here. I am gonna try my best to utilize some of the opinions, and tips suggested in this thread.

[tizzyt]

thought I'd give this fantastic topic (that should be stickied) a bump

[Bigpapa42]

Would just like to say thanks to some people on here, as I've found this tip thread quite helpful in writing my first diary.

[lazorbeak]

Yeah the Joseph Campbell "Hero's Journey" formula would make a nice storyline that could go a lot of different ways.

I feel like Tristam's said just about everything worth saying (and I'm proud of myself for having already gone more than 4 shows), but I wanted to say something about this.

Don't make every story a hero's journey! There's nothing that gets old faster than some rube overcoming impossible odds and acquiring power with help from his friends, returning a master of both worlds and blah blah blah. At least, don't try to rigidly adhere to it. There's far more useful tools for understanding wrestling than Campbell.

Roland Barthes wrote some great stuff about wrestling: he said wrestling is fundamentally about suffering. It's about seeing defeat, victory, justice, all of that stuff on an epic (meaning simple and understandable, not old) scale.

There's a ton of simple mythemes that you can tell in a wrestling ring. You can tell the fisher king story (veteran is 'healed' by winning the big one), David and Goliath (duh), Oedipus-style child vs. parents, betrayal of friendships, lovers that society rejects (spike dudley and molly holly), and the list goes on.

But the most important thing for any good story is that you have a defined good guy and bad guy. That doesn't always have to be as simple as it sounds: anybody from Hogan to Austin to the Rock can be a "good guy," as it doesn't have one clear meaning. The defining characteristic of the good guy is that they want to give the bad guy what he deserves: this is why Barthes says wrestling is based on ethics and is almost mythological in its "good vs. evil" ritual. Why does the face (almost) always win the main event at wrestlemania? Because in the end, the bad guy gets his and the world is put right, if only for a day.

Sorry for quoting Barthes, but he's way more relevant than Campbell and I'm a huge nerd.

[Antithesis]

Only thing I would add, as a reader, is try to change the format of your shows from time to time. There is a diary here, in the Hall of Fame, that is fairly entertaining if you only read it as it's updated. If you were like me and came to it late and read most of it in one sitting, you'd notice the diary consists basically of the same show, week after week after week.

Same format, same finishes, and many times, the same matches, ad nauseum.

A real life example would be when Raw used to open with a 10 minute + promo week after week and it would always serve to set up the main event. They stopped doing that all the time because people became sick of it. People should be mindful of that in their diaries also.

[mistaken]

Wow. I just realized that over a 2 year span I've started 26 diaries! LOL.

it's not about quantity it's about quality.

you could start 500, as long as you did a couple of shows that make it look like you at least gave some thought to each, then 500 would probably ok.

If you star 30 in a 6 month window, with most not making it to their first show...well around here we have a special word for that. :p

Truth is some times a diary gets off to a great start, but you tell all the story you had planned out, or had time to tell and it dies. 26 is just more than 1 a month, which though high is not horrible. Eventually you will hit on that one that keeps both your attention and the readers, and then you will be off to the races!

[hurricanendp]

I've never read this thread, becasue i've always wanted to run with a "shot in the dark" kind of diary, but reading tristram's follow up of his excellent tips, he's given me an idea for a storyline for a returning worker, how far away in game it is i'm not sure, but it's definately being wrote down as i type so i can remember each bit of it!

[falling_star]

This is all some very excellent, information. . . a lot of it is going to be taken into account on my new diary (only my third in all the years of playing TEW).

[angeldelayette]

Just a quick bump up for this and for all new diary writers!

[tizzyt]

another quick bump to this fine, fine thread

[darthsiddus2]

sticky not bump!

[tizzyt]

I agree, it should be stickied... but I don't have that power... :(

[juggaloninjalee]

I want this to be stickied!

So just to add to the thread. Another thing that makes a diary good is if there aren't a lot of the same diaries out there. So my thing is I like to read diaries that have a promotion that nobody else is really using.

However this is from a readers perspective.

[Bigpapa42]

Pretty sure that this has been mentioned before, but... plan ahead!

That isn't to say you never have every move, every show, and every storyline planned out completely in advance. But take some time and put some solid ideas together. Have more than a "general direction" that you want to go in. Know what story you want to tell, both as the overriding story of the diary and the storylines for your shows. It seems like most of the better-written and most entertaining diaries on the site here are very well planned out. It does also make it easier to write, I find.

At the same time, maintain a bit of flexibility in your stories. Stuff will happen in your game. You will lose workers that you don't expect (retirement, injury, or other promotions). You may sign and/or develop workers that you don't expect. If you work with the idea that some things are going to change here and there, you won't find it as frustrating and annoying when they do change.

[FINisher]

Few things to say and not so much of a Writing tips, more of "viewer tips":

For all those people who read diaries actively: Remember to comment from time to time, as it is truly rewarding for the writer. I for one thrive from the comments, and it makes making the diary so much fun and way more easier, as I know that people follow and read the diary.

If the diary uses predictions, predict. If there's something going on that you like or dislike, say so! The writer will surely appreciate any feedback. :)




And few writing tips: If the thing just doesn't feel right and you are not having fun with the diary anymore, take a break from it for a while. Don't stress and/or push yourself to the limit where you don't want to make the diary. It can be down to the promotion you are running: My run with DAVE a while back seemed so.. Weird and uncomfortable. Now I'm writing BBW, and I'm having so much fun, the same as I did with WEXXV. :)

Also, when I started with my first diary, I never thought of how hard and time consuming it was to write, right from the beginning. Now that I have written hundreds, thousands lines of text, I'm getting better and better with my english! Also every new diary writer should really consider the lay-out of the diary before he starts to write. I changed mine 3-4 times during the first diary, and now I have been using the same lay-out for months, the one that I have come familiar with and the one that seems easier for me to write and be creative in the colour, font usage.


Remember to comment on those diaries you actively follow!

[tizzyt]

BAH! Where's the sticky on this one? Don't make me through a Gregg Hughes-like fit to get this stickied! (For any of the O & A listeners out there)


STICKY IT!!!!!!!

[Clarity]

Most of this is just my personal opinion about what makes a good diary.


A good first posting. While its true that most diaries start with just a phone call announcing the position, most great diaries set the scenes from post #1 and get the reader hooked.<br>

An easy read. If i open a diary and it starts 'One Dayz Vince Machanon Phonz Me Up And Sayz 'You Hired' And I Sayz Yo' then im put off straight away. Also starting a diary with a huge wall of text is off-putting to say the least. Break it up into paragraphs and be gramatically correct. And for the life of me, i still dont understand while people would ever capitalise the start of every word.<br>

Characters. If you ask people to name a C-Verse character, then chances are they will think of their favourite from a diary. Maybe its Jack 'Wrath Of God' Giedroyc, Alicia 'Muffin' Strong, Archangel/Joel Kovach or the mighty Jim Force, most of them got their popularity from a well written character from a diary found here. Who knows, write a character well enough and it might achieve forum immortality (like Jim 'Buy My Merchandise' Force did) <br>

Extras. While prediction lists, and images are all well and good, sometimes you can put too much in, with the main culprits being videos being added. Most of them dont really add much to the diary and can hinder the time it takes a page to load. Also bare in mind that people read this forum at work, so make sure that your video doesn't auto-start otherwise they might get into trouble.

[angeldelayette]

Bring
Up
My
Post

[angeldelayette]

It's been about a month since this was bumped. So, here we go for all the new people!

[FINisher]

I didn't know which thread to bump to say that I'm amazed of the recent boost that we have had here in the dynasty section:

33 viewers at the same time in this part of the forums. I've never seen 33 people here at the same time!!

+ So many NEW DIARIES have started in just few weeks. And we had just one incredibly tight Cornellverse DOTM of December with so many nominations and votes. I'm loving this.

EDIT: 34 and rising!!
EDIT2: 35!?! What is going on?! :D

[angeldelayette]

Bump De Bump!

[G-Prime]

I was considering bumping this, because of the dynasty thread in the main forum.

[angeldelayette]

After doing some thinking, I think that some of the longer-lasting diaries aren't just the wrestling inside the ring but also the characters outside the ring, especially in the Cornellverse. Fleshing out characters in this manner helps not only the audience but the writer as well to get a feel for it.

Just another Bump for this.

[FINisher]

Another bump with a little extra on it.

I have to confess that I'm really, really struggling now with my two diaries, BBW and CZCW. I love em both but I'm in a huge stalemate. Here's why:

BBW: My longest diary but it has fallen apart, big time. Some of the decisions don't make sense, neither does the booking. The roster has a huge gap between main eventers and even uppermidcarders as the ME's are in the C to A popularity range, whereas everyone in uppermidcard and below are in the E+ to F-. And many booking decisions don't make any sense since I have somehow lost consistency. Things have been unmentioned or just skipped in the storytelling; Where did Prophet go? etc.

CZCW: I would just love to just book it and not to the diary (Like in my game with INSPIRE and GCG). It's much harder to do some storylines using CZCW, altough I'm using WLW's product. And there's the fact that CZCW has been done so many times!! I just can't do better than infinitywpi.. I just can't. I so respect the guy and love his diary.. I just can't compare to him. Or James Caseys MAW.

Conclusion: ??? .. I'm lost. I would not want end the diaries, especially BBW. My biggest shame in the diary writing is that I am not consistent. I find it hard to keep up with my own storylines, I tend to slip out in doing the storylines, twists and turns, I just book randomly or I just forget to mention things, etc. SO, advice: Keep it consistent. Invest time and dedication to your diary and don't pause from doing it. I've paused with BBW and it has left me in a state where I just can't remember where the hell I was with the story!!

Conclusion #2: I started the INSPIRE diary.. The TI diary.. And now the CZCW diary in such a short time. And the DAVE diary before jumping to BBW. I'm now thinking of .. .. Yeah, starting another one I guess. In which I would dedicate myself completely and be consistent. Invent great characters and doing logical storylines which I would keep on track, etc.. Doing the diary in a more of a NoNeck/Bigpapa42 style, since the promotion that I have in mind has a TV-show. And it's a promotion that I've not seen a diary made from (?).. I'm talking about 21CW. Just like WEXXV it would be something unusual, since I loved doing Warrior Engine since no one knew the wrestlers and had no idea of the characters, etc. Everyone knows MAW, CZCW, TCW and SWF so it's easier for me to start from somewhere where people haven't really been in. I need advice and comments on the subject, so if anyone would like to comment, please do.

[mad5226]

I just want to second your first comment. My WWF 1992 diary was going reat i loved it. Then after Wrestlemania things started falling apart. I then started booking for sake of the diary not so much the game and things just started not making sense. I decided I would counter this by taking a week or two off then starting off fresh. The problem with that was that when I came back to 1 I couldn't get back into it and 2 I forgot where I was going with everything. How do people overcome this? I know people like Keef and Fool do diaries for years and they stay consistantly awesome...what's the secret?

[foolinc]

I just want to second your first comment. My WWF 1992 diary was going reat i loved it. Then after Wrestlemania things started falling apart. I then started booking for sake of the diary not so much the game and things just started not making sense. I decided I would counter this by taking a week or two off then starting off fresh. The problem with that was that when I came back to 1 I couldn't get back into it and 2 I forgot where I was going with everything. How do people overcome this? I know people like Keef and Fool do diaries for years and they stay consistantly awesome...what's the secret?

:eek: Wow. That's just amazing to be compared to Keef. I really don't deserve it, though. My NEO diary lacks the detail of guys like Tiger, James Casey, and Keef and that's why I am able to keep it updated daily. All my other diaries have died deaths due to the same reason your WWF diary did (though the NYCW '97 diary was going to continue until I screwed up my Microsoft Notebook and lost 4 months of data).

Though I guess I can comment on actually being able to play the game for a long period of time. While my diary is at May 2010, I just finished 2011 in-game (and it's killing me not to say anything about it). One of the things that has allowed me to keep on going is that I am not really running a lot of storylines. And the ones I am doing were pretty much created by the seat of my pants. Sure there were some storylines I thought out step by step, but I'd say there I averaged about one of those per year. By doing that I was able to adapt a bit better than before because there weren't that many moments were I got pissed because a storyline I was working with got totally screwed. Of course this is a lot easier with a small promotion.

I've also been pretty lucky that my luck has been pretty balanced. I've had a good mix of challenges and good fortune that has made the game itself rewarding.

[Bigpapa42]

Not sure what you mean about NoNeck/Bigpapa42 style, Fin, but I'll assume its a good thing.

I've only done the one SWF diary, so I can only speak from my experience with that. But its definitely been a learning curve. Consistency of storylines has been one of my biggest challenges. That, and juggling a monster roster but that's my own damned fault.

I feel like really gotten better all around at the diary as time went on - everything from the characterizations, match writep-ups, storylines, and definitely consistency in the booking and storylines. What has helped me in getting the storylines more consistent is simply keeping better track of things. At the start, I knew where I wanted to go with each major storyline and had an idea of the intent for the next few PPVs. Then I started keeping a notebook with details. Once I switched over to my laptop, I started using Word documents. I now have about two dozen different documents - everything from random segment ideas to bits of dialogue I will use at some point to detailed booking plans. I made reference in character in the diary to having planned out the next year in booking terms - that's a bit of a stretch, but I am working on that. I have the main events of every PPV through the end of the year planned out and I know where each major storyline should be at a given PPV. That makes it much easier to fill in the TV shows with the segments and matches needed to drive those forward. Obviously I can't be completely rigid in this approach, as things change - people get hurt, don't get over like you expect, etc. But having the direciton makes things much easier on a show to show basis. I don't end up feeling like I'm floundering like I sometimes did before. I still often end up looking back to double-check details of previous shows when I'm writing stuff up, but I don't find myself directionless.

[FINisher]

Not sure what you mean about NoNeck/Bigpapa42 style, Fin, but I'll assume its a good thing.

I feel like really gotten better all around at the diary as time went on - everything from the characterizations, match writep-ups, storylines, and definitely consistency in the booking and storylines.

It is a good thing and you pretty much answered it yourself :p I mean the whole package where each TV-show is huge and full of everything. What people don't realise that with WEXXV and BBW, Japanese touring promotion, I do hundreds of shows more than what others do with just one, two events per month. I'm planning on concentrating more on each TV show, if I'm going to start my 21CW diary. Altough I would continue atleast my BBW diary just for the sake of it, just keep doing the shows with little to no storylines.

[Bigpapa42]

It is a good thing and you pretty much answered it yourself :p I mean the whole package where each TV-show is huge and full of everything. What people don't realise that with WEXXV and BBW, Japanese touring promotion, I do hundreds of shows more than what others do with just one, two events per month. I'm planning on concentrating more on each TV show, if I'm going to start my 21CW diary. Altough I would continue atleast my BBW diary just for the sake of it, just keep doing the shows with little to no storylines.

I kinda figured that's what you meant. I just thought it was funny to have that style "named" after NN and me. Anyway, a couple quick things to remember, mainly because there are things I sometimes have to remind myself of...

-the whole point of a weekly TV show is to sell your PPV. That's modern wrestling. Its such a basic concept, but its something I would often forget early in my diary. You want to tell your stories on TV, but they should always be building towards the PPV events. Your big matches should be on PPV. Now if you can manage it (I can with SWF), then there's nothing wrong with putting PPV-caliber matches on TV because it usually means better shows. But don't do it at the expense of the PPV.

-each show should build into the next. Again, this is something I've struggled with at times, and probably still do. But in realistic (not game) terms, you want to give the viewer a reason to tune in next week. Whether that means you end each show with an epic staredown that makes it seem like there's going to be trouble next week, find a way to hype to the main event of next week's show, whatever. Something to make a viewer think they need to watch next week, too. I was in the habit of writing up each show as its booked, which is why building towards the next show was tough - I didn't have it booked or planned yet. I now plan out in advance, so that helps in this regard.

[James Casey]

I have to admit, I'm terrible at long term planning. In all seriousness, I'm five and a half years into my game, and the true storylines I've run on-screen can pretty much be summarised as follows:

The Firm dominates
Jay vs. Rip
Aaron vs. Jay/Rip
Hugh and Sienna
The Firm v.2 vs. The Fallen v.1
Kirk vs. Aaron
Kirk and his Knights vs. Aaron and The Fallen v.2

I try and make sure there are character arcs, where a storyline might be focused on a single character irrespective of their opponents. I know I have a tendency to pick up and drop characters - it's part of the perils of using a small fed that's subject to raids.

That's part of running MAW, though - and I also find that if I plan long-term, it falls apart too easily. I tried running a game where I planned out every feud for months in advance (I did actually have the full twelve months of storylines) but I realised that a single injury, signing or whatever would throw me off course so I ended up ditching the game.

Now I'm trying to book to a weekly TV format, and it's easier to book month to month - but then, the problems remain with people leaving at a week's notice.

[Self]

Wish I'd discovered this thread sooner. I've fallen into a couple of the traps mentioned here, in particular the long match write-ups. Not that I detail every hammerlock, but I can see how the length would be off-putting.

[infinitywpi]

CZCW:And there's the fact that CZCW has been done so many times!! I just can't do better than infinitywpi.. I just can't. I so respect the guy and love his diary.. I just can't compare to him.

There's your problem. You're delusional.

[FlameSnoopy]

Well.. I almost never write anything down, that is one way to keep your ideas in your mind when you keep a break. Then is of course if you remember the ideas, like I nowadays do, because I usually just think how the situation would go etc etc. Or then you could just book a show and see how it goes, as I usually do if I have a LONG break from a save game.

Then again, I just started a WWF 1992 game. This time, I wrote up in the feud description what I want to do with the feud.. Well for two storylines, but still. You all could try writing down, some people do it, and it seems to be working!

[angeldelayette]

Glad to see this thread still around. I can understand about booking yourself into a corner because I think I have a little bit with James Justice in my diary. I am having a hard time deciding on who he should feud with after Bruce The Giant because I don't have that many faces that are popular enough.

[foolinc]

Glad to see this thread still around. I can understand about booking yourself into a corner because I think I have a little bit with James Justice in my diary. I am having a hard time deciding on who he should feud with after Bruce The Giant because I don't have that many faces that are popular enough.

I don't know if you could get away with it, but since it's clear you need to time to build up a challenger why don't you feud Bruce with one of the top heels and James Justice do a 15 minute of fame type challenge. That should buy you enough time to make a new challenger for Justice.

Of course, you could hire a new face to the roster. That always seems to work well. :D

[angeldelayette]

I don't know if you could get away with it, but since it's clear you need to time to build up a challenger why don't you feud Bruce with one of the top heels and James Justice do a 15 minute of fame type challenge. That should buy you enough time to make a new challenger for Justice.

Of course, you could hire a new face to the roster. That always seems to work well. :D

Some interesting ideas. I have a few myself but nothing that I've decided on. And who knows who is gonna win the USPW World Title match, right? :D But I have some major plans for the Thompson/Strong feud. Chemistry killed one feud idea I had. Bruce The Giant and T-Rex have bad chemistry. And I have some big plans for the USPW Television Title as well following Declaration of Independence.

[The Final Countdown]

Few things to say and not so much of a Writing tips, more of "viewer tips":

For all those people who read diaries actively: Remember to comment from time to time, as it is truly rewarding for the writer. I for one thrive from the comments, and it makes making the diary so much fun and way more easier, as I know that people follow and read the diary.

If the diary uses predictions, predict. If there's something going on that you like or dislike, say so! The writer will surely appreciate any feedback.
I've really only just begun my diary, but I agree 100% with this. I started my diary mainly for myself, to give me an excuse to get more in-depth and detailed with my booking than I would in a normal game of TEW. But it appears that a least a few people have liked what I've done so far, posting feedback after my shows, doing predictions, etc. It's been a very positive motivator for me; I've run just three shows, yet I'm more invested in this game than I was in my previous game where I ran hundreds of shows.

[crayon]

The next time I do a diary, I'm going to a) have a couple of shows under the belt before posting, and b) have a much easier format. I'm extremely proud of the brief stint i did last time but it took an eternity of time and effort to produce.

I'd also like to whip up some small graphics to break up the walls of text and make it easier on the eyes (which seems to be a big downfall of forum diaries, including my own)

[Comradebot]

Few things to say and not so much of a Writing tips, more of "viewer tips":

For all those people who read diaries actively: Remember to comment from time to time, as it is truly rewarding for the writer. I for one thrive from the comments, and it makes making the diary so much fun and way more easier, as I know that people follow and read the diary.

If the diary uses predictions, predict. If there's something going on that you like or dislike, say so! The writer will surely appreciate any feedback. :)




I've really only just begun my diary, but I agree 100% with this. I started my diary mainly for myself, to give me an excuse to get more in-depth and detailed with my booking than I would in a normal game of TEW. But it appears that a least a few people have liked what I've done so far, posting feedback after my shows, doing predictions, etc. It's been a very positive motivator for me; I've run just three shows, yet I'm more invested in this game than I was in my previous game where I ran hundreds of shows.


I'll agree, too. Nothing, NOTHING is better than getting any form of feedback on a diary. Even if its just "hey, Bam Bam needs to keep being Alpha" its cool.

I myself plan on commenting more on the diaries I read. Gotta let folks know you're entertained by them.

[Bigpapa42]

I'll agree, too. Nothing, NOTHING is better than getting any form of feedback on a diary. Even if its just "hey, Bam Bam needs to keep being Alpha" its cool.

I myself plan on commenting more on the diaries I read. Gotta let folks know you're entertained by them.

Very much agree. Feedback of any sort is huge as a diary writer. I've said a number of times that, personally, I thrive on feedback. So every few pages of my diary, I end up doing a "comment, please" thing if people aren't posted. Its not a need for continual justification, as I find negative feedback massively useful so long as its constructive.

Personally, I've tried to get more consistent in offering feedback. Even if its just to say something as simple as "hey, enjoyed the last show". Still don't do it enough, but at least it lets writers know that I'm reading.

[crayon]

Yeah, I mean if you've taken the time to read a diary entry (which is generally pretty time consuming, given how much is put into them) then posting a short comment is nothing. Unless you really just weren't impressed with it (but hey some people would like the constructive criticism as well).

I think any writer ultimately wants feedback on his work, whether it be a conscious or subconscious thing. If he didn't, he may as well just keep the diarys to himself, or better yet, just play the game and not put in the work of doing a big write-up. So anyone else who's a writer, if you like what someone else is doing, no excuse not to comment :P

[cmdrsam]

I agree. Sometimes alittle feedback one way or another goes a long way. Iv got one going right now. I have 5 messages, 4 of them mine, and 181 veiws. Bangs head on table. Sorry all if this comes off as a rant. I know I'm not as talented as the great ones out here. But I try. I have done works with lots of detail. Iv done works with backstage meetings. Interaction with charactors. I just dont have a clue I guess as to what the people want.

[Bigpapa42]

I agree. Sometimes alittle feedback one way or another goes a long way. Iv got one going right now. I have 5 messages, 4 of them mine, and 181 veiws. Bangs head on table. Sorry all if this comes off as a rant. I know I'm not as talented as the great ones out here. But I try. I have done works with lots of detail. Iv done works with backstage meetings. Interaction with charactors. I just dont have a clue I guess as to what the people want.

There is a real tendency on this board amongst readers to give a new diary a bit of time. Its a learned response, I think, from so many diaries going belly-up after a promising start. You get a get good backstory, an interesting set-up, maybe even a couple of shows, and then its done. That happens to the majority of diaries that start on here. Now, you can argue that readers not responding much right at the beginning is part of what causes so many diaries to die so quickly, but a lot seem to die even when they do get that immediate response.

I've seen your Memphis diary, and its a great start. The three shows posted so far are solid, while the historical information is really helpful. Try not to get discouraged, because consistent quality will attract readers. It just doesn't always happen immediately. Not to mention that historical real world diaries and be a tough sell for the first bit, it seems.

[ya_its_me]

Very much agree. Feedback of any sort is huge as a diary writer. I've said a number of times that, personally, I thrive on feedback. So every few pages of my diary, I end up doing a "comment, please" thing if people aren't posted. Its not a need for continual justification, as I find negative feedback massively useful so long as its constructive.

Personally, I've tried to get more consistent in offering feedback. Even if its just to say something as simple as "hey, enjoyed the last show". Still don't do it enough, but at least it lets writers know that I'm reading.

Same here on the thriving on feedback part, my new WCW diary got tons of feedback so far and the first show hasn't even been posted! And usually I feel more motivated to continue the diary the more feedback it gets.

[angeldelayette]

I completely agree about the feedback needed to continue a diary. It is the main reason for posting a diary, really. Otherwise, we'd just run the games on our own. I personally have at least two reasons off the top of my head for running my diary. The first is to get feedback and interaction with my diary. The second is to keep my thoughts and stories organized in a fashion better than I would do with a game on my own. I do get a lot of predictions and I'm thankful for those and thankful for those who read my diary as well even if you don't comment. I would appreciate more comments on what people like or dislike, a little more detailed comments which I do get at times. But I definitely take all that I can get.

[Remianen]

There is a real tendency on this board amongst readers to give a new diary a bit of time. Its a learned response, I think, from so many diaries going belly-up after a promising start. You get a get good backstory, an interesting set-up, maybe even a couple of shows, and then its done. That happens to the majority of diaries that start on here. Now, you can argue that readers not responding much right at the beginning is part of what causes so many diaries to die so quickly, but a lot seem to die even when they do get that immediate response.

I can understand this point of view. I know my diaries in the past (and present) have suffered from my tendency to be very verbose. I'm also a graphic sl00t so my shows tend to take about a day to write and several hours to format and post. That makes it real hard to maintain a brisk pace. This time, I have a solution so we'll see how it works out.

Comments are always awesome, even if they're critical. Different points of view often present opportunities for creativity that wouldn't have existed previously.

[crayon]

I can understand this point of view. I know my diaries in the past (and present) have suffered from my tendency to be very verbose. I'm also a graphic sl00t so my shows tend to take about a day to write and several hours to format and post. That makes it real hard to maintain a brisk pace. This time, I have a solution so we'll see how it works out.

Oh, I feel that pain (not just here, but with other forums I would post stuff on). I wish I knew how to code because I'd set up a website which would allow you to enter in your data, and through the use of templates and options, get a nicely presented html display of your "diary entry" instead of a wall of text.

Before I start my next diary I'm going to whip up some basic graphics (headers, line breakers, etc) which I can quickly insert to spruce things up.

[Self]

Your shows only take a day to write? Mine take about 8!

Formatting is also consuming, but key in my book. Gotta get that presentation down. I can't stand blocks of text.

[FINisher]

Oh, I feel that pain (not just here, but with other forums I would post stuff on). I wish I knew how to code because I'd set up a website which would allow you to enter in your data, and through the use of templates and options, get a nicely presented html display of your "diary entry" instead of a wall of text.

If you're not sure how to do it, just quote the show report? Or press right mouse button on top of the addition (Picture, graphic, video etc) and search for the details. My browser is in finnish so I don't know the right english translation for the term. But you can do a lot by just inserting simple images with the code.

For video inserting, use the "embed" code.
Removed the start and the ending. You find it on youtube, on the right below the details and such, it goes something like this:

object width="425" height="344" param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P5jbo7lxPqc&hl=en&fs=1" /param>



For theme playing etc, you need to have an image and the url for the video. Here's Acid's/Aether's theme done in my CGC diary

a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch905hmtb7M" target="_blank" img src="http://koti.mbnet.fi/sadhappy/CGC/play3.png" alt="" border="0">

Removed the < and > and others thing from it so that it won't show :D The first url is the video, with the second being the "play" image. I hope this helps. Here's the thing done properly, right click on it and search for details yourself.. / select the image by holding mouse button and "painting" the image, then "show source code" or something like that..

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch905hmtb7M" target="_blank"><img src="http://koti.mbnet.fi/sadhappy/CGC/play3.png" alt="" border="0"></a>


EDIT: Here's a screenshot of the text, the upper one is the embed code of the video, the second is the code for the play image & video (As a small theme button)

[IMG]http://koti.mbnet.fi/sadhappy/screenshotdiaryhelp.jpg

[Remianen]

For all you SE fans, read this article (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/wrestling/heyman/article1900416.ece). Now, read between the lines and see exactly how that translates to your promotion's shows. The tenets advocated in the article (and the "street cred" the author possesses) are pretty much universal in the areas of character and storyline development.

Think of your favorite storylines of all time. Now, break them down to their individual parts. What hooked you on the storyline? Why did you care about the characters involved? What part of each piece of the storyline compelled you to tune in (or buy the PPV) to see it to its conclusion? What about that storyline made you even buy the DVD months/years/decades later to revisit it? In short, what made it memorable to you? When planning out your shows and storylines, keep those things in mind. Heck, use those memorable stories as an outline for your own writing.

When developing characters, think about characters you liked or loved over the years, from any medium. Which was your favorite lion (Voltron)? Why? Who was your favorite G.I.Joe character? Why? Who was your favorite Thundercat? Why? Who is your favorite Dragonball Z character? Why? What character did you always gravitate to when playing Street Fighter? Why? Who was your favorite Star Wars character? Why? Who is your favorite Lord of the Rings character? Why? Break it down and you'll find threads that can be used to weave your characters' personalities.

Then, and this is the hardest part for me, figure out how to convey those characters' personalities in as few words as possible.

[Bigpapa42]

For all you SE fans, read this article (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/wrestling/heyman/article1900416.ece). Now, read between the lines and see exactly how that translates to your promotion's shows. The tenets advocated in the article (and the "street cred" the author possesses) are pretty much universal in the areas of character and storyline development.

Think of your favorite storylines of all time. Now, break them down to their individual parts. What hooked you on the storyline? Why did you care about the characters involved? What part of each piece of the storyline compelled you to tune in (or buy the PPV) to see it to its conclusion? What about that storyline made you even buy the DVD months/years/decades later to revisit it? In short, what made it memorable to you? When planning out your shows and storylines, keep those things in mind. Heck, use those memorable stories as an outline for your own writing.

When developing characters, think about characters you liked or loved over the years, from any medium. Which was your favorite lion (Voltron)? Why? Who was your favorite G.I.Joe character? Why? Who was your favorite Thundercat? Why? Who is your favorite Dragonball Z character? Why? What character did you always gravitate to when playing Street Fighter? Why? Who was your favorite Star Wars character? Why? Who is your favorite Lord of the Rings character? Why? Break it down and you'll find threads that can be used to weave your characters' personalities.

Then, and this is the hardest part for me, figure out how to convey those characters' personalities in as few words as possible.

Great post, Remianen. When I first started, I was trying to create characters from scratch and I struggled. I found a link to a site with TV tropes and started using those characterizations as the basis for a number of my primary characters. You basically just have the basic outline of a stock character and then you just have to flesh it out a bit. Its so much easier.

[crayon]

If you're not sure how to do it, just quote the show report? Or press right mouse button on top of the addition (Picture, graphic, video etc) and search for the details. My browser is in finnish so I don't know the right english translation for the term. But you can do a lot by just inserting simple images with the [IMG] code.

[lotsa stuff]

Firstly, handy information you just gave me there. So thanks for that.

Although, when I was talking about coding a website, I didn't just mean html, but a frontend that anyone (you, this guy over here, that guy over there, etc) could sign up to and throw in their text and easily implement images, video and such and have it pop out in an attractive format without any knowledge of html (in other words, the website backend would do all the hard formatting work for you). Not to mention having specific templates which would display angles in a different manner to commentary, which would also look completely different to match write-ups.

Ahh, but that's all big dreaming for now. Carry on with the diary writing tips guys :)

[Self]

For all you SE fans, read this article (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/wrestling/heyman/article1900416.ece). Now, read between the lines and see exactly how that translates to your promotion's shows. The tenets advocated in the article (and the "street cred" the author possesses) are pretty much universal in the areas of character and storyline development.Think of your favorite storylines of all time.

Now, break them down to their individual parts. What hooked you on the storyline? Why did you care about the characters involved? What part of each piece of the storyline compelled you to tune in (or buy the PPV) to see it to its conclusion? What about that storyline made you even buy the DVD months/years/decades later to revisit it? In short, what made it memorable to you? When planning out your shows and storylines, keep those things in mind. Heck, use those memorable stories as an outline for your own writing.

When developing characters, think about characters you liked or loved over the years, from any medium. Which was your favorite lion (Voltron)? Why? Who was your favorite G.I.Joe character? Why? Who was your favorite Thundercat? Why? Who is your favorite Dragonball Z character? Why? What character did you always gravitate to when playing Street Fighter? Why? Who was your favorite Star Wars character? Why? Who is your favorite Lord of the Rings character? Why? Break it down and you'll find threads that can be used to weave your characters' personalities.

Then, and this is the hardest part for me, figure out how to convey those characters' personalities in as few words as possible.

Very wise. From Heyman and from you. Personally I'm obsessed with the Face/Heel divide and trying to make the Babyfaces likable and the Heels unlikeable. I do exactly what you've noted above, I think about shows, think about my favourite characters and think about why. It's getting there. A few characters are still tricky, Jeremy Stone for example isn't my kinda wrestler. Finding a likable persona in there required some work... still does.

Heels are harder in diaries I think, partly because internet fans appreciate good heelsmanship, partly because... well... It's hard to get heat when attacking characters nobody cares about.

I need to work on providing matches people want to see. I gave away a little too much on my free TV shows with that damned tournament idea.

[crayon]

Very wise. From Heyman and from you. Personally I'm obsessed with the Face/Heel divide and trying to make the Babyfaces likable and the Heels unlikeable. I do exactly what you've noted above, I think about shows, think about my favourite characters and think about why. It's getting there. A few characters are still tricky, Jeremy Stone for example isn't my kinda wrestler. Finding a likable persona in there required some work... still does.

Heels are harder in diaries I think, partly because internet fans appreciate good heelsmanship, partly because... well... It's hard to get heat when attacking characters nobody cares about.

I need to work on providing matches people want to see. I gave away a little too much on my free TV shows with that damned tournament idea.

Also that it's doubly hard to evoke genuine heat from readers through text, especially if you're trying to keep your write-ups brief. Because while it's not beyond most to be able to easily replicate a great storyline in diary format, conveying a real workers performance requires a certain level of description that would result in the majority of us never writing past the third show.

That's why in writing I always tend to lean towards the comedic and outrageous -- because it's a much easier sell than serious drama.

[Self]

Yes. Comedy is much easier in diary form.

As for trying to evoke real emotion while keeping things brief, my way around that is... I don't keep things brief. I'm a screenwriter. That's my style. I write the stage directions. I write the dialogue. I write the entire scene.

Some people may not want to invest that much time in reading my stuff (that's cool, each to their own) and honestly it's taking 8 days to write each (weekly) episode, but that's the way I want to do things. I want to write a wrestling show.

[Ajstylesfan1978]

Thanks all for the advice about starting a diary. I have started out by using my notebook to write out my first feud. Since i plan to have 8 storylines and 2 shows a week. I think its best for me to just run 4 storylines per show. When putting feuds together do you use storylines that the game gives you or unchained storylines? Im also looking at a best of 7 series. Any tips on running a best of 7 series without killing the feud.

[Self]

I always use Unchained, and not just in my diary game.

I have never tried a best of 7 series, but I'm suddenly tempted to try. The way I'd do it would be to start with two mildly over guys (D's) and make them fight every other show, using the shows inbetween on high-rated angles to boost their popularity. So round 1 would be (D pop vs D pop) rould 2 would be (D+ vs D+) round 3 would be (C- vs C-) and so on... That's the best way I can think of to make every match better, and avoid the penalty. Theoretically it might work, but in practice, who knows?

[Remianen]

Thanks all for the advice about starting a diary. I have started out by using my notebook to write out my first feud. Since i plan to have 8 storylines and 2 shows a week. I think its best for me to just run 4 storylines per show. When putting feuds together do you use storylines that the game gives you or unchained storylines? Im also looking at a best of 7 series. Any tips on running a best of 7 series without killing the feud.

Always unchained. I write out my storylines in "chained" form but I always run the storyline ingame unchained. The reason being, opportunities arise that you can't take advantage of in chained form. An example:

The Pearly Gates: Opportunity Knocks
Synopsis: A storyline involving a champion being protected by their mentor, in gatekeeper fashion. Anyone who wants a shot at the title, has to go through the mentor first. However, things become tense when the mentor is presented with an opportunity they can't pass up.

The opportunity is a chance to win said title in a triple threat match the mentor is booked into, ostensibly to 'protect' the champion. When the champion is incapacitated during the match, the mentor either seizes the opportunity and beats the champ, taking the title for themselves....or not.

The storyline, as written, involves several workers who all run into the brick wall of the mentor....except one. That sets up the triple threat match. In chained form, you'd have to think of EVERY way the workers involved might interact during the storyline (are there managers involved? You'd have to sacrifice a worker spot for them) and insert that in the storyline while creating it. In unchained form, you can wing it to a certain extent and let it develop more organically within the storyline's basic framework.

[James Casey]

A month without a bump is a month too long!

[praguepride]

For diaries I challenge myself by actually writing out my storylines. Yeah, it takes a lot of time and you have to double/triple check your booking work but in the end I'm happy when I get that "storyline complete"

Plus I don't feel "cheap" by just throwing my main eventers into unchained storylines.

[scorpion]

Lance Storm posted this commentary on "The Rules of Wrestling." I thought it would be relevant for diary writers.

http://www.stormwrestling.com/050109.html

[Derek B]

Lance Storm posted this commentary on "The Rules of Wrestling." I thought it would be relevant for diary writers.

http://www.stormwrestling.com/050109.html

It's definitely a good one to read for any aspiring diary writer. Likewise, tracking down any commentary by veterans like Jim Cornette and... Jim Cornette should be top of any diary writer's to do list. They can teach so much about how wrestling is best executed in the long run, and not just for a quick buck, that there isn't a single person in pro wrestling who couldn't learn SOMETHING good from them.

Needless to say, I've already emplyed many of the principals discussed by guys like Storm, Cornette, Heyman (somewhat) and many others in my own writing and booking. Even the WWE has a significant influence, though much like McMahon once did with Russo, I'm filtering out the bad/restricting plans and using the good ones. :)

[Self]

Wise words... so wise they'll probably trigger my bi-weekly freak-out about the creative direction of my Diary.

[The Masked Orange]

Wise words... so wise they'll probably trigger my bi-weekly freak-out about the creative direction of my Diary.

Ha, I'm already freaking out about mine!


When writing a diary, don't feel that you have to be limited by what gimmicks they have. If somebody has a Happy-Go-Lucky gimmick, don't ruin an angle or go out of your way just to make them seem constantly happy. They are human, they have other emotions too.

Actually, go out of your way if their is some big reason why they should be permanently happy. Just don't over conform to gimmicks.

[MrOnu]

Amen to Lance Storm's writings. Seriously, this guy understands the business more than a lot of people actually in charges. On other hand, too many companies are run by accoutants these days, wrestling had to fall in that trap too at some point.

* disclaimer : not a knock against accoutants. It's knock against companies only looking at the financial side of things while losing the bigger picture.

[crayon]

Lance Storm posted this commentary on "The Rules of Wrestling." I thought it would be relevant for diary writers.

http://www.stormwrestling.com/050109.html

It's great advice for real life, and I'd hope more bookers out there take notice, but as for writing a diary I wouldn't consider it the high word brought down from Moses himself.. For example I don't think there's any issue in treating your titles and workers or company like a joke... so long as that's your intent from the start, and you're never counting on using their credibility to sell your diary and the storylines within it—the problem that Storm is seeing is that these promotions are devaluing stock in themselves but at the same time turning around and then saying things like "hey care about why these guys want the tag titles now".

Then again, I doubt Storm would enjoy a promotion run by John Awesome either, but as far as delivering an entertaining read I think it did the job quite well (even if it was very short-lived (sorry guys, mods are more time consuming than i thought)), and when it comes to text on a message board I'm probably less concerned about the big picture and "what happens" and more interested in "how interesting they can describe what happens" and keep my attention for this moment in time, given how much more effort is needed to read someone's post than sit down on a couch with a bag of chips and watch an hour or two of wrestling.

[FINisher]

A little bump, random thoughts and some tips. :)

I've always had a lot easier job writing and inventing heel characters than faces. To me it's really easy to invent these brute, scary, unique heels than wholesome faces. If I would be a product my gimmicks would be subtle and not simple. Low on Mainstream, high on Cult. That's me. I still am the WEXXV/BBW promoter, the hardcore, garbage, crazy wrestling booker. In my CGC diary I think that I will change the product during the game to have more Cult and less mainstream, don't know, I've been playing with the idea as an addition into the backstory! The Sage, Aether and Ares are a little risque for CGC and the future characters I have in my mind are even risquer. I just can't wait for you to see them! :D

Few simple tips: 1.) Watch wrestling. Watch those special moments over and over again. I do this when writing promos as I seem to struggle with those. I just have to have something in the background that I can use since my english is not as such a good level than other writers here. This one leads me to my other tip:

2.) Concentrate on your strenghts and know your weaknesses. Observe yourself, what works in your diary and what doesn't. If you suck in something, try concentrating on different things. I've always tried to concentrate on my strenghts which I think would be the unique gimmicks & characters, alt making, storylines and the actual gameplay and usage of roster. My weaknessess have to be the actual writing, consistency in storylines (I sometimes tend to forget what storylines I'm running) and above all those little things, the biggest has to be running big promotions. I've hardly ever ran a national size company, atleast not a sport entertainment one.

[crayon]

I've always had a lot easier job writing and inventing heel characters than faces. To me it's really easy to invent these brute, scary, unique heels than wholesome faces.

I don't think that's just you. I think it's also just a natural part of the entertainment business. Just taking a look at movies, tv, and even back to wrestling that exists today, it seems as though heels are one of the easier thing to get over and build up as a credible threat, as opposed to the effort required for a good hero.

My reasoning for it would be that not only is it easier for us to envision the sort of characters we'd hate to run into in a dark alley, a heel can get over because most of the time they're "doing" characters; the heel is pro-active, and he goes out there and generally causes sh*t to hit the fan. Whereas many babyfaces are "reactionary" characters, with their momentum (in a narrative sense) largely depending on what the heel is doing.. so in order to make a babyface stand out as more than Joe Everyman-fighing-for-what's-right a writer really needs to go that extra mile in characterization, even though it may not seem relevant to the storyline.

[FlameSnoopy]

And to add to that crayon's text, I think that a good heel makes atleast a decent face. If the fans basically want to see that ásshole heel lose, doesn't that also mean they want to see the face to win? And when Triple H gets added a bit of heel elements, they make him thousand times more interesting than that normal face HHH.

[Self]

See, the trouble I have in writing Heels is that I am naturally a Heel mark. My favorite WWE guys right now are Edge, Jericho, Morrison, Tyson Kidd etc. They entertain me.... and that's the problem. If I find a character entertaining, I find him likable. If I find him likable, that will comes through in my writing, and others might find him likable, and then he's not a Heel. He's a Babyface.

I'm kinda struggling for Heels in the Frontier Combat Kingdom. Partly it's due to the characters I drafted, and that have fallen into my lap during the game, and partly it's due to the fact that most of the time when I come up with gimmicks, I have too much fun coming up with wacky skits and personality defects. Which make them entertaining and relatable, to me at least.

[The Masked Orange]

See, the trouble I have in writing Heels is that I am naturally a Heel mark. My favorite WWE guys right now are Edge, Jericho, Morrison, Tyson Kidd etc. They entertain me.... and that's the problem. If I find a character entertaining, I find him likable. If I find him likable, that will comes through in my writing, and others might find him likable, and then he's not a Heel. He's a Babyface.

I'm kinda struggling for Heels in the Frontier Combat Kingdom. Partly it's due to the characters I drafted, and that have fallen into my lap during the game, and partly it's due to the fact that most of the time when I come up with gimmicks, I have too much fun coming up with wacky skits and personality defects. Which make them entertaining and relatable, to me at least.

What I've found, not just in the dynasties, but in most peoples games, is that the worst crime is being too generic. If you have someone without the quirks, and just play them straight edge, it should be easier.

Although, I haven't really had that much experience in Dynasty writing, so this is just an idea...

[crayon]

What I've found, not just in the dynasties, but in most peoples games, is that the worst crime is being too generic. If you have someone without the quirks, and just play them straight edge, it should be easier.

Although, I haven't really had that much experience in Dynasty writing, so this is just an idea...

Just to add my experience with the straight edge being easier part... in the mod I'm working on I've got a promotion that I eventually want to use for a diary.. I've been planning the storylines in my head for some time, but due to me giving everyone on the roster some sort of quirks I've actually realized I've got no "Straight Man" in the promotion, and I can now see just how valuable having a clean cut regular guy is, in terms of storyline opportunities.

Quirky and rich characters are great for driving a storyline by themselves; letting it go naturally where their personas would take it.. but in some instances you really need a character who is a bit of a blank slate, for when you want the storyline to drive the character and not the other way around.

[foolinc]

Just to add my experience with the straight edge being easier part... in the mod I'm working on I've got a promotion that I eventually want to use for a diary.. I've been planning the storylines in my head for some time, but due to me giving everyone on the roster some sort of quirks I've actually realized I've got no "Straight Man" in the promotion, and I can now see just how valuable having a clean cut regular guy is, in terms of storyline opportunities.

Quirky and rich characters are great for driving a storyline by themselves; letting it go naturally where their personas would take it.. but in some instances you really need a character who is a bit of a blank slate, for when you want the storyline to drive the character and not the other way around.

I agree that the straight man is both a needed character yet at the same time hard to write for at times.

The way I see RPW is pretty much an edger version of CHIKARA (since the late 90s were a bit edger in general than today's culture) if it was run by character in the same vein as the Mr. McMahon character. With so many goofy characters in the promotion, straight men are vital to make those characters actually stand out. Because of this, it's pretty fun to write for Steve Flash, though I guess him being the man in the ring helps a bit.

I think my main strength is that I come up with a lot of good ideas and concepts, though it's hard for me to fully express the idea/concept in the way I want. It's probably why I've had so much success with the NEO diary. The "cupcake" style doesn't need a lot of super detailed explanations, so there was less for me to get stuck on.

[NickC13573]

I don't know if I can, or should, do this; but I wanted to know if you guys had any ideas on where I can take my diary over year 2-5. I would also like to know if i should add anything to my diary; such as background stuff, real world things, etc.

[Nedew]

I've got a bit of a surreal problem when it comes to my diary that's in the works - I write too much.

It's practically the opposite of writer's block, instead i'm just pouring stuff out, describing every little thing to the nth degree and turning character's lines into speeches. Not only does it make me take ages to write a show out (i'm planning to get 3 or 4 shows completely done before I even post the backstory for a bit of a cushion), it also makes me worry that in the future I won't be able to sustain this level of thoroughness.

Any ideas?

[FlameSnoopy]

I've got a bit of a surreal problem when it comes to my diary that's in the works - I write too much.

It's practically the opposite of writer's block, instead i'm just pouring stuff out, describing every little thing to the nth degree and turning character's lines into speeches. Not only does it make me take ages to write a show out (i'm planning to get 3 or 4 shows completely done before I even post the backstory for a bit of a cushion), it also makes me worry that in the future I won't be able to sustain this level of thoroughness.

Any ideas?

I think it's normal. Just try to keep it simple, with writing what's the exact thing you want to say. If you want to say how a wrestler sweats like hell, do it. If you want to say how incredibly cool that one move was, do it. If you want to keep it short, just tell what you need to tell, not how the wrestler sweats. And trust me, this isn't the easiest thing to do :D

[Self]

That's totally normal, and in fact sounds a lot like how I write. The trick is to write everything in as much detail as you want, then ruthlessly cut stuff... but you have to allow yourself the freedom to write everything first. Don't censor yourself in that initial phase. Go balls to the wall. When you have that finished first draft in front of you, it's easier to see what needs to be shorter, what bits don't really don't matter in the big picture, what jokes fall flat compared to others, etc.

I typically write 12-15 pages of fully-formatted show per episode. Roughly 10 pages of that makes it to the site.

If it's taking forever... well, that's something you have to live with. I post a show a week, and guess what, it takes me 8 days to write each show. That's why I take breaks after each PPV. From what I've seen so far, I haven't lost any readers from that, so it's no biggy. The important thing is that you do what you need to do, to deliver the product you want to put out there. Take pride in it.

Good on you for getting 3-4 finished shows done before posting. It's a fantastic thing to do.

[Nedew]

Good on you for getting 3-4 finished shows done before posting. It's a fantastic thing to do.

:o It's like getting a pat on the back from Jesus, Buddha and Zeus all at once!

Cheers for all the advice Self (and FlameSnoopy!), I'll be sure to take it to heart. Thanks muchly :)

[Self]

I honestly wish I'd waited that long before starting my diary. I think I had 2 complete shows ready when I started posting, and by the end of Chapter One I was a bit rushed for time, so a few segments didn't get the attention they deserved. If I'd held off a little longer I could have sat back, rewrote a few scenes, and above all just had a few more days to bask in the (largely imagined) applause and get wasted without worrying about whether Edd Stone was coming off as a Heel or Babyface or about how much dialogue Jeremy could handle.

[Self]

One tip for quickening things up, that helped me over Chapter Two of my diary... Don't get rid of detail, get rid of segments. I originally had 5 matches per show, and a bunch of 6 minute segment. It was a whore to write, so I changed it to 4 matches (with maybe a 5th if REALLY needed) and a bunch of 8 minute segments. I had fewer scenes to write and a narrower focus that forced me to develop specific characters. It isn't a particularly awesome strategy in-game, but in writing terms it did me the world of good.

Plus my theory is that too many characters and storylines overwhelm a new reader, whereas 3-4 stories involving a dozen fleshed out characters is easier to get into.

[FINisher]

Yeah. You can't just introduce a bunch of new characters in just one show. Or establish the old ones to the reader in a few. I usually have the shows based around 3 storylines or so with a ten workers related in it and usually the segments, the in-depth detail is only on 1-3 wrestlers at the time (Promos and such. Sage has had several and he has become a sort of Mary Sue in the diary unfortunately). It's a slow process for one to really write about the whole roster as it has to be taken care of one at the time.

[Nedew]

My first show alone has 8 matches and 9 segments. Woops :o In fairness though, it's monthly 2 hour show, but is even that no defense?

I've nearly written the whole thing up, and i've got my plans for the second all sorted too, so it'd be a bit of a bugger to give up now...

[Self]

Well "FCK Mondays!" is only 90 minutes, with a 50-50 ratio, so my numbers aren't the be-all-and-end-all.

[Nedew]

Well "FCK Mondays!" is only 90 minutes, with a 50-50 ratio, so my numbers aren't the be-all-and-end-all.

It's hard to treat your diary-writing idol's stats that way :p

[Belton]

It's hard to treat everyone's diary-writing idol's stats that way :p

Fix'd.

[Self]

Far be it from me to change the subject off of Self-Love, but Jim Cornette wrote another commentary.

http://www.jimcornette.com/Commentary.html

This one's about Hardcore Wrestling, so isn't specifically useful to diary writers, however, Cornette's a very smart guy, and in between the lines you might find certain pearls of wisdom to help you in your booking. I certainly know I'm changing a couple of my future plans after reading this.

[Bigpapa42]

http://www.stormwrestling.com/index1.html

Lance Storm is another guy who has solid views on the business. Most of his blogs aren't exactly ground-break on their insight, but the stuff is logical.

[praguepride]

I caught this out of that commentary:

"Adding Sgt. Danny Davis as the manager of Latham & Farris, the Blonde Bombers,

Jerry Martin, the blonde bomber hardcore wrestler for RIPW I think. Caught another one, Adam :D

[Genadi]

Van Dam and Lynn! They woud always combine for brilliance! In fact, by the end, you'd see pretty lacklustre matches (even with Lynn in them) and, then, as soon as those two were billed against each other, the caliber was quite amazing.


I agree. I'm suprised Austin and Rock weren't mentioned. I thought both those guys took eachother to another level. Punk and Joe also I thought had at least good chemistry.

[crayon]

I see a number of people second-guessing themselves lately and asking "should i do this or that storyline?" (not necessarily in this thread) and I'd just like to say that in my opinion, there is no such thing as a bad storyline; only bad execution.

As long as you follow the rules of your diary's world (for instance, it's going to be a lot harder to sell a giant robot invasion in a promotion you've set up to be grounded heavily in reality), any storyline can get over if it has the writing to back it up. Some things will require more talent than others, but that's between you and your keyboard.

This applies to to real world booking as well really, and why I don't necessarily agree a hundred percent to some of Storm's views. The problem isn't that X Promotion is doing this way or that way, when booking should be done THIS way instead—the problem is that what they're choosing to do is either counter-productive, and/or they're just doing it really badly.

[SeanMcFly]

Bumped for those in need of it

Also, a tip, that I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or not

Intros are important in my view, and probably others as well, so, I'm not saying spend all your time on one, but try to make it unique, enough to hook the reader, not just :

I Won The Lottery, Then Tommy Cornell phoned me, and somehow I became the Headbooker of TCW

when it could be like this :

January 1st, 2008

I got an interesting phone call today, and there could only be one reason why. You see, I came into some money lately, not with my job, not with my friends. I'll give you a hint. Starts with an L. Yes. I won the lottery. And suddenly, i found myself strapped with phone calls from people I didn't even know, but one caught my attention...

"Hey, It's Tommy Cornell. Are you comfortable right now ? Because I've got an offer for you...


Just a slight story could earn you SO many more readers.

[D-Lyrium]

I'd just like to ask, if I may, how important matches are to you, as a reader. That seems an odd question, considering we're talking about wrestling... but what I mean is: Does a match have to be well written out, in a decent level of detail, for you to enjoy the diary?

The thing I'm struggling most with at the moment is match writing, largely because I don't actually watch that much wrestling any more. But whenever I preview my shows on the forum the matches seem really short. I mean, they are short writeups, but some of my opening matches are like three lines when previewed on the forum. I guess my problem with that is that it makes me feel like I haven't put enough effort in, which makes it feel like the readers will come to the same conclusion...

I'm not saying I'm aiming for Tigerkinney's BHOTWG levels of awesome match writing, but I'd like the matches that are important, or rate highly, to *feel* important or highly rated...

Thoughts?


As for the 'heels are easier to write' discussion from the last page... yeah, they are. I guess it's because heels DO stuff. In reality, it's far easier to become known as a bad guy than to become known as a good guy. If you blow up a school, you're a bad guy. If you DON'T blow up a school, you're not lavished with praise. :p

[Nedew]

I could care less about matches... they could be a word long if you like ("good." "bad." "neither." I've just done every match ever for you :p).

What matters to me is story... though that will differ from reader to reader.

[UkWrestleFan]

Don't use guns.

[FINisher]

I'd just like to ask, if I may, how important matches are to you, as a reader. That seems an odd question, considering we're talking about wrestling... but what I mean is: Does a match have to be well written out, in a decent level of detail, for you to enjoy the diary?

Depends on:

1.) The product. I really don't expect a lot from entertainment promotions but if one does a performance biased promotion you kind of expect top quality match writeups.

2.) Importance of the match. I usually do longer match writeups when there's a title on the line, to give the titles some meaning. Or if there's anything other on the line. If it's just a basic match between two people who have not had any beef with each other before, I really don't care that much. But if something in-match happens which is important for the future bouts, of course one would write more about it.

(3.) One thing I usually try to do to the maximum is to have the quality and lenght of the match related to the actual grade it gets in TEW08 compared to your usual standard/popularity. You won't see top rope moves or apron moves, or kick outs from finishing moves in a C- match if you will have B matches in the card aswell, etc.. All the rare stuff and "MOTYC" material will indeed be saved for those A to A* MOTYC's.)

So my writing style regarding matches is a mixture of those three things. The product, importance and the actual grade.

I'm not saying I'm aiming for Tigerkinney's BHOTWG levels of awesome match writing, but I'd like the matches that are important, or rate highly, to *feel* important or highly rated...

I am. Seriously. When my GCG gets some momentum behind it and when I know the moves and wrestlers, etc.. Watch out.

[Bigpapa42]

I'd just like to ask, if I may, how important matches are to you, as a reader. That seems an odd question, considering we're talking about wrestling... but what I mean is: Does a match have to be well written out, in a decent level of detail, for you to enjoy the diary?

The thing I'm struggling most with at the moment is match writing, largely because I don't actually watch that much wrestling any more. But whenever I preview my shows on the forum the matches seem really short. I mean, they are short writeups, but some of my opening matches are like three lines when previewed on the forum. I guess my problem with that is that it makes me feel like I haven't put enough effort in, which makes it feel like the readers will come to the same conclusion...

I'm not saying I'm aiming for Tigerkinney's BHOTWG levels of awesome match writing, but I'd like the matches that are important, or rate highly, to *feel* important or highly rated...

Thoughts?

The importance of matches is a tough one. I agree with the sentiment from FIN that the context is important. As a reader, I am going to expect a bit more focus on the matches in a pure-based promotion. Not to say every math has to an epic write-up, but just that a minimalist approach it tougher to accept. Whereas in a SE fed, I can accept a pretty basic description like "Worker X won the match by finall after 10 minutes, after dominating the match" is acceptable under most conditions. It would seem a little spare when its an A* match that headlined the biggest show of the year - "Worker Y won the best match of the year after 45 minutes by submission" seems a bit sparse. At the same time, I'm probably not interested in reading a four-paragraph detailed write-up on a dark match bewteen two jobbers, no matter how well its written.

I will disagree with FIN a bit in that while I do think its a good idea to correlate the match write-up to the grade, as context again matters. Because a C- match in a popular pure fed just means it was a bad (or at least mediocre) match. A C- match in a SE could mean it was a bad match, or an indifferent crowd or two unpopular workers putting a great match, or any number of issues.

I love the TigerKinney-style write-ups. I love when you are reading them, you can basically envision the match as the writer intends it. That isn't easy. It not only takes writing skill and innate knowledge of wrestling, but also a great imagination to come up with detailed matches that aren't the same thing every time. But as much as I love that, it wouldn't really seem special if everyone could do it.

Personally, what I try to consider is what do I want to have happened during the match? Beyond the result, obviously. Was it an open and even match, or dominated by one worker? Was it a brawl, an aerial affair, a technical mat battle, or some combination? Was there flow and tell a story or were there just big spots? Did it stay in the ring or move in and out? Was there interference? Is the match a slow build towards a big finish? Is it an epic battle where they throw everything they have at each other throughout? Is there endless false finishes with finsiher after finisher? Figure out what you want the match to and feature, then just describe that. Throw in a few signature spots in the right places, and maybe some hyperbole if its a good match grade, and you'll probably end up with a decent enough write-up.

[Self]

I'm not too fond of writing matches either, especially when they have no plot points to push forward, and are just matches for the sake of matches. To make things easier, I follow this template, which I learned from a Shoot Interview, which I call "Raven's Guide To Match Psychology".

1) The Shine - The Babyface does something impressive, to appeal to the audience and show he can beat the Heel.
2) The Turning Point - The Heel does something to turn the tables, normally by Cheating.
3) The Heat - The Heel beats down the Babyface, using his own brand of offense, usually less exciting as the Babyface, for obvious reasons.
4) The Comeback - The Babyface does something to turn the tables, preferably something awesome.
5) The Back and Forth - The two fighters go toe-to-toe, each using their individual style to try to win.
6) The Finish - Just what it says on the tin, the end of the match.

Now depending on how I want the match to go, I'll write certain steps long, cut some short, or cut others entirely. Unless I've booked it to be an "Open Match" I usually skip Step 5. If a Heel's winning a Squash match, I skip Step 1.

I feel that matches are very important in wrestling. I can't just tell stories through promos, I have to have moments that occur in the ring. Run-ins (Chitose's recent antics with Harry Allen) characters flaws (Johnny Blood's rage) even the decision of which Babyface gets the hot tag in a Tag Team Match. I find it important, and I hope people aren't just reading my promos, because if you are, you're missing half of the story.

That being said, I do have trouble finding the balance with matches. I do try to cut them down as short as possible, leaving only the core essentials and plot points. It's a work in progress. I'm not 100% happy yet.

[tristram]

I'm trying to steer clear of long winded write ups, I find after writing diaries for a while that long winded write ups can burn you out and stop you from enjoying a story. And if you can't enjoy it, firstly whats the point, and secondly, if you can't, who can? I use a more distinguished style now for my major main events, because they have storyline arches in the matches themselves. I'm beginning to find I can give away a lot more with shorter, simplistic summarisations of the match coupled with more effective plot linkages outside the match. My initial writing was designed because I wanted the stories I wrote for to bring back credit and meaning to Championships and the art of wrestling itself, but I feel I can put prestige into the Championships by making a pay-off matches more meaningful, have more reason, and make the outcome therefore that much more cutting edge in importance.

I would even suggest modern day economics plays a part in the successful organisation of wrestling promotions. Think about this, when you watched old school wrestling from the early 80s, how old was your TV or how long did you have your TV for? Same with your telephone. Things are so much more quicker these days. People don't want long term, they want concise, they want action packed, and they want it now. I don't know in modern day economies if hour long broadways et al could cut it, I watch a few of them now and I think... too long. And I'm an old school fan. I think people are legitimately seeing wrestling as a way out, a fantastic new world, a drama. So to me now writing wise it doesn't make a lot of sense to write a novella for a match. I try and tell the people what happens in a concise manner, unless its a major title opportunity or a very important match.

One thing I think that should also be encouraged is to not be afraid to point out weaknesses et al in matches, if all your wrestlers are outlandish superstars, how can they be beaten??? Not every match I put together is designed either to push an angle or a wrestler, sometimes as a booker you need to de-exhaust the crowd to keep them sane enough to comprehend a later event on the card. When I really got back into wrestling I did some roleplaying in e-feds and to start off with I tried to make my character perfect - you know, 300 pounds of muscle, can do a moonsault, the ladies love him... as I went along I found it so much more fun to point out his imperfections and to find his 'zing' for why wrestling was important. In reality, at the end he was a boring, basic wrestler, his look wasn't overly spectacular, he was just who he was. Sometimes wrestlers are like that.

[crayon]

I'd just like to ask, if I may, how important matches are to you, as a reader. That seems an odd question, considering we're talking about wrestling... but what I mean is: Does a match have to be well written out, in a decent level of detail, for you to enjoy the diary?

The thing I'm struggling most with at the moment is match writing, largely because I don't actually watch that much wrestling any more. But whenever I preview my shows on the forum the matches seem really short. I mean, they are short writeups, but some of my opening matches are like three lines when previewed on the forum. I guess my problem with that is that it makes me feel like I haven't put enough effort in, which makes it feel like the readers will come to the same conclusion...

I'm not saying I'm aiming for Tigerkinney's BHOTWG levels of awesome match writing, but I'd like the matches that are important, or rate highly, to *feel* important or highly rated...

Thoughts?

I rarely ever read match writing properly.. sometimes i'll skim, usually I'll skip.

Not saying that I would never read it with great attention but it would either need to be really well written (and not just in a descriptive sense, in a creative sense (the style of writing itself would have to actually be interesting)) or part of such a great storyline that I couldn't help be invested in the journey of their match and not just the result. Although a writer could also get away having lesser talent using a combination of the two.

[MattitudeV2]

I'm trying to steer clear of long winded write ups, I find after writing diaries for a while that long winded write ups can burn you out and stop you from enjoying a story. And if you can't enjoy it, firstly whats the point, and secondly, if you can't, who can? I use a more distinguished style now for my major main events, because they have storyline arches in the matches themselves. I'm beginning to find I can give away a lot more with shorter, simplistic summarisations of the match coupled with more effective plot linkages outside the match. My initial writing was designed because I wanted the stories I wrote for to bring back credit and meaning to Championships and the art of wrestling itself, but I feel I can put prestige into the Championships by making a pay-off matches more meaningful, have more reason, and make the outcome therefore that much more cutting edge in importance.

I would even suggest modern day economics plays a part in the successful organisation of wrestling promotions. Think about this, when you watched old school wrestling from the early 80s, how old was your TV or how long did you have your TV for? Same with your telephone. Things are so much more quicker these days. People don't want long term, they want concise, they want action packed, and they want it now. I don't know in modern day economies if hour long broadways et al could cut it, I watch a few of them now and I think... too long. And I'm an old school fan. I think people are legitimately seeing wrestling as a way out, a fantastic new world, a drama. So to me now writing wise it doesn't make a lot of sense to write a novella for a match. I try and tell the people what happens in a concise manner, unless its a major title opportunity or a very important match.

One thing I think that should also be encouraged is to not be afraid to point out weaknesses et al in matches, if all your wrestlers are outlandish superstars, how can they be beaten??? Not every match I put together is designed either to push an angle or a wrestler, sometimes as a booker you need to de-exhaust the crowd to keep them sane enough to comprehend a later event on the card. When I really got back into wrestling I did some roleplaying in e-feds and to start off with I tried to make my character perfect - you know, 300 pounds of muscle, can do a moonsault, the ladies love him... as I went along I found it so much more fun to point out his imperfections and to find his 'zing' for why wrestling was important. In reality, at the end he was a boring, basic wrestler, his look wasn't overly spectacular, he was just who he was. Sometimes wrestlers are like that.

I agree with tristam a hundred and ten percent here now I know I don't play TEW but when I plan to write I at least set out a game plan to get off as I planned out many of dynasties that never came to fruition due to lack of fun.

[ampulator]

This applies to to real world booking as well really, and why I don't necessarily agree a hundred percent to some of Storm's views. The problem isn't that X Promotion is doing this way or that way, when booking should be done THIS way instead—the problem is that what they're choosing to do is either counter-productive, and/or they're just doing it really badly.


That's because Lance Storm has biases, like anyone else. He seems to lean towards a Product that's Traditional, Realistic, and Pure. He seems to also like Modern (X-Division) and is open to Hyper Realism (he watches some MMA now). Coincidentally, he's wrestling style is quite leaning towards Traditionalism, Realism, and Pure, and he can do well with the Modern Style. If Lance Storm was still wrestling, he would HAVE made a great addition to the X-Division.

He doesn't seem to lean much against anything, though, other than bad booking or wrestling.

I want to point out that, I find I agree with Lance Storm 99% of the time, though not always.

I also I have to disagree with Jim Cornette, but not the reasons you might think. I think he's wrong to point out that "everyone's" doing hardcore wrestling. Hasn't he been paying attention the ACTUAL trends of wrestling? Hardcore wrestling is not on the "in's", it's on the out's. Cornette is 10 to 19 years too late in his commentary - Hardcore wrestling was "in" during the 90's, but it's 2009 now. Other CZW, what other promotion is really hardcore now in the USA, and is popular enough? I can't think of any.

When I think of Wrestling in the Independent scene, Hardcore is not one of them.

[Mea Culpa]

Other CZW, what other promotion is really hardcore now in the USA, and is popular enough? I can't think of any.
Honestly, CZW isn't that popular at all anymore. And there are some other better known independent promotions in the States that cater to the hardcore/deathmatch scene like IWA-MS and IWA-EC, but all in all the deathmatch style is a very small niche nowadays so it's effect on the business as a whole is relatively minuscule. When a straightforward wrestling promotion like Ring Of Honor can break out of the pack, or a comedy/lucha-infused product like CHIKARA is growing more and more each year, you really can't argue that hardcore wrestling is continuing to "kill the biz".

And this quote from Cornette is absolutely ridiculous-
Additionally, just who is it that ENJOYS this sideshow garbage? The same type of people who go to rock concerts to punch and bash each other in the face and beat each other up in the "mosh pit"--lower class, mentally challenged college-age (but not attending) guys who piss and moan about their depression and lot in life because they have neither the drive and determination nor mental acumen to change it. Any normal fans who see this type of show or attend one with these type of fans NEVER want to go to wrestling again.

Stereotype much? I thoroughly enjoy deathmatch wrestling when it's done right, and I've never been nor will I ever be in a mosh pit, am not mentally challenged, and I'm pretty sure I'm not depressed. I find it funny how he says "piss and moan" when that's all he's doing in that long-winded rant. The business has changed without you, Jim. Deal with it.



Edit: Ahem. Sorry for getting off-topic here. :o

[Hyde Hill]

Bumb because its so dam usefull and have sneaking suspision that it has helped increase the number of good diaries out there atm.

[ampulator]

Honestly, CZW isn't that popular at all anymore. And there are some other better known independent promotions in the States that cater to the hardcore/deathmatch scene like IWA-MS and IWA-EC, but all in all the deathmatch style is a very small niche nowadays so it's effect on the business as a whole is relatively minuscule. When a straightforward wrestling promotion like Ring Of Honor can break out of the pack, or a comedy/lucha-infused product like CHIKARA is growing more and more each year, you really can't argue that hardcore wrestling is continuing to "kill the biz".

And this quote from Cornette is absolutely ridiculous-


Stereotype much? I thoroughly enjoy deathmatch wrestling when it's done right, and I've never been nor will I ever be in a mosh pit, am not mentally challenged, and I'm pretty sure I'm not depressed. I find it funny how he says "piss and moan" when that's all he's doing in that long-winded rant. The business has changed without you, Jim. Deal with it.



Edit: Ahem. Sorry for getting off-topic here. :o

Are you agreeing with me? Because I certainly agree with you. Honestly speaking, on the "Hardcore" stuff, I think Heyman always used it as a gimmick to "shake" things up. He claims he's merely exploiting a market that no one has taken advantage of, but I think he actually created a market to sell to, rather than sell to an already existing market. That takes serious work.

For Heyman, I think it was always the fans, particularly the minority, the "Cult". I think that's his lasting contribution. He made a successful synthesis of Cult and Hardcore, and made a go at it. Looking back on the Indy scene after the death of ECW, I think his lasting contributions has more to do with appealing to minority of fans can be successful, making high-fliers more well known and acceptable, and introducing (but which actually is not actually major part of ECW) of a more Modern style.

Look where Hardcore is now, versus where the other types of product are. I think Cornette is rant against Hardcore, again, is too outdated.

[Hyde Hill]

Who was your favorite Thundercat? Why? Who is your favorite Dragonball Z character? Why? What character did you always gravitate to when playing Street Fighter? Why? Who was your favorite Star Wars character? Why? Who is your favorite Lord of the Rings character? Why? Break it down and you'll find threads that can be used to weave your characters' personalities. by remianen

way of topic but just wondering

The one with the nunchak's, Vegeta, Guile, Vader, Gimli. So what does that say about me just wondering lol.

[wrestlingfan#1]

The one with the nunchak's

still off topic but I had to jump in here Panthro - Nunchucks, Liono - eye of thundera, Cheetara - Staff, wily kit and wily (Spelling?) kat - the two kids with magic pills ( i think thats where they got the ides for the different animal sponges inside the dissolvable capsules lol), Tigra - whip and last but certainly not least Snarf - the cook , haha. lol. By far one of my favorite cartoons of all time along with Silverhawks (i believe was the name).

anyways back on topic. I did have a question when i first came into this thread, that I nearly forgot. What about a fictional fed with-in the C-Verse? Where as a diary surrounding a user created fed do you think there would be any interest in that? How would you ( used as a general term ) go about it?

[Hyde Hill]

I think NEO by foolinc has quite a following so best for him and his readers to answer that. (sorry its on my things to read list but kinda busy foolinc.)

[FINisher]

I have a real hard time getting into a game that's not started with a default promotion in the database. It has to have a really logical, realistic backstory and owner for me to get into one.

One really big tip: Choose a promotion you like, a style you like. If you have watched sports entertainment and just SE your whole life, book one. If you have always had a niche for pure, modern, puroresu etc, performance based promotions, book one. Don't try to be something that you aren't. Keep asking yourself "why do I watch wrestling and other questions similar to that one.

[Self]

Fictional promotions in the C-Verse can do well, they can even become co-winner of the DOTM competition... there's an example on the tip of my tongue... If only I could remember it... Bah.

It is harder to get readers with a 'fake' promotion. No question. You've really got to work hard at establishing a brand identity, but it's not impossible. As long as the content is good, as long as you write good wrestling, the audience will catch on eventually.

[D-Lyrium]

The worst thing you can do when creating a fictional promotion is not have a purpose. I can only speak for myself of course, but diaries that feature user-created promotions that are basically the same as existing promotions turn me off immediately. Self and foolinc both created promotions that are different to anything else, which is why they're liked.

The main problem is your starting roster. Starting in North America in 2008, there are basically two rosters you can hire: the Comically Useless Crap roster (as per LDW and CCW), and the Indy Darlings roster (as per Marcel's X-WA (which, while not technically user created, is basically as good as)).

FCK and NEO are both great because they're something different. FCK uses the draft concept, which I'm not a great fan of but have to admit, the resulting diary is awesome. NEO just has some lesser-seen wrestlers, which give it an edge.

So yeah... being original is important, but difficult.

[Self]

FCK uses the draft concept, which I'm not a great fan of but have to admit, the resulting diary is awesome.

Cheers. The draft could be seen as me cherry-picking whatever characters I wanted, and making a diary with them, but in actuallity it was the result of a legitimate draft ran by Derek_B between like 20 board members to create a wacky C-Verse mod. The workers in my diary are the guys I either drafted, or signed as the game progressed... Although the mod's lack of National promotions have made it slightly too easy to get hold of top class talent.

[Hyde Hill]

Just wait a year and you will get raided and sry for not mentioning FCK and both X-WA's altough Eisen has moved on to PSW.

[foolinc]

still off topic but I had to jump in here Panthro - Nunchucks, Liono - eye of thundera, Cheetara - Staff, wily kit and wily (Spelling?) kat - the two kids with magic pills ( i think thats where they got the ides for the different animal sponges inside the dissolvable capsules lol), Tigra - whip and last but certainly not least Snarf - the cook , haha. lol. By far one of my favorite cartoons of all time along with Silverhawks (i believe was the name).

anyways back on topic. I did have a question when i first came into this thread, that I nearly forgot. What about a fictional fed with-in the C-Verse? Where as a diary surrounding a user created fed do you think there would be any interest in that? How would you ( used as a general term ) go about it?

I might not fully agreed with FIN that your promotion needs a super realistic backstory, but he is right that it needs a purpose. NEO's purpose is simple. It's a 0/0/0 challenge game. I put my own spin on it from other takes on the concept, like D-Lyrium's (which was awesome), by going with a more serious product. While I have had a lot of crazy characters and a good bit of wrestlecrap (Startune Productions and the pink tiger suit anyone?), most 0/0/0 promotions go with just using the worst wrestlers possible and then give them ridiculous gimmicks to top it off.

Additionally, I think the fact that no one was doing a diary like that at the time helped as well. Unless I change the layout of my diary in a major way, I'll never win Diary of the Month, but I'll take people starting up their own 0/0/0 diaries any day. :D

As for going around creating the fed, I'll guess I'll talk about the roster. No matter what is the size of your fed, D-Lyrium is right. It's really easy to fall into the trap of hiring either a super roster or a comedy roster. My advice is to have a good mix of "aces," comedy jobbers, and lesser used wrestlers. Balance is the key.

[The Mystery]

I'm new here and I don't have the TEW 2008 game but I do have the freeware TEW 2005. Just new to writing diaries but I've started to write my first one. Its on TEW 2005 Freeware dynasties and its called DAVE: Doing The Impossible (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47459). I know I'm new but goin over this diary, what tips can ya give for me to at least improve the diary??

[praguepride]

The worst thing you can do when creating a fictional promotion is not have a purpose. I can only speak for myself of course, but diaries that feature user-created promotions that are basically the same as existing promotions turn me off immediately. Self and foolinc both created promotions that are different to anything else, which is why they're liked.

The main problem is your starting roster. Starting in North America in 2008, there are basically two rosters you can hire: the Comically Useless Crap roster (as per LDW and CCW), and the Indy Darlings roster (as per Marcel's X-WA (which, while not technically user created, is basically as good as)).

FCK and NEO are both great because they're something different. FCK uses the draft concept, which I'm not a great fan of but have to admit, the resulting diary is awesome. NEO just has some lesser-seen wrestlers, which give it an edge.

So yeah... being original is important, but difficult.

Yay! I got a shout out! To clarify though, I did take a comically bad roster and am trying to act like they're indy darlings. It's meant to be a more realistic portrayal of what it's like at the bottom of the barrel.

[FINisher]

Not much of a tip. It's 3AM, midnight (:p and I feel like rambling), and I'm thinking of my diaries after noticing how popular the few new diaries are. I know it's no use "comparing" diaries or trying to write the best diary ever. I started paying attention on views and replies compared to the lenght of the diary. Then I noticed how wrong I've been thinking the whole day.

It's not about the numbers of views.

It's not about the numbers of replies.

It's not about the amount of predictions you will get.

It's about having fun and writing your own diary. Like everyone has said in this thread so many times, over and over again: Do whatever you want to do with it. Write it the way you want it to be written. It's your diary. I'm feeling a burnout of all the heavy writing since it takes a lot from a non-native speaker. I really envy you guys who can write these huge, extra long posts in such a little time as it's the language you've been using your whole life. One show takes me countless hours to write, I would say that it takes three to four times longer than average even though I'm getting better and faster. I noticed a lot of repetition in my GCG matches due to the fact that English is not my native language, same goes for CGC.

I started rethinking my diaries. I have noticed how my diaries tend to stall when I can't play the actual game that much, and when I thought about it I haven't started a game for atleast over half a year that I didn't make a diary from. When the diary writing becomes more of a work than a hobby, it's time to take a pause and rethink everything, sort everything out. Know your strenghts. If it's wild characters, make them, use them. If it's complicated storylines, write them. If it's the matches, concentrate on them. Right now I'm leaning on doing more alts and characters and concentrating on the actual playing and lessening the amount of writing because quite frankly that is the worst part in my diaries; The actual writing and the english language in itself. I have to find a suitable layout for me in order to establish this new style, without just copy/paste the results.

*sigh*.. Time to go to bed. Good night everybody. Just wanted to write this and share what was on my mind. :o

[Self]

Frankly, it boggles my mind that anyone, English speaking or not, can sit down and just write a show, start to finish, in one sitting. It literally takes me 7 days to write a show. Granted, I go into more detail than most, and I bounce between scenes like a... like a bouncing thing, but some days I'll get maybe 2 scenes locked, and a couple more with first drafts, and that'll be a good day. The way I was raised, I suppose.... Easily distracted procrastination complex... or dumb****ery to give it the technical term.

I haven't played many non-diary games recently either. Nothing lasting at any rate. I'm doing a multiplayer thing atm, and I'm finding it REALLY weird booking for good ratings, rather than booking for a logical story. Almost as though I'm cheating.

[Hyde Hill]

Lol my development has gone the otherway seeing as I have a tendancy to power game. I started booking for results and slowly but surely drifted to book for storyline due to all the diaries here.

[foolinc]

I am in total agreement with FINister and Self on this one. It takes me what I think is forever to write up a show for RPW. My strengths are all creative in nature. While I like to plan out my feuds and shows I am perfectly able to work around monkey wrenches like the AI taking your top guys or your own personal mistakes, like giving Nigel Svensson the title in his second match. It also helps me figure out ways to power game a bit here are there (Idol defending his title in the semi-main event while the number one contendership is the main event because the big man guy, Dark Angel, would be a bigger draw in the kayfabe Commish's opinion).

My main weakness is that I suck at writing matches (or at least I think I do). It's got to be why my NEO diary is so much popular than my RPW diary (which is kind of depressing it you think about it). The matches are just copy and pasting. If I could find a way to get a happy medium between the two (please the Tigerkinney's of the forums as well as the people who just want the barebones), I'd be set.

[Bigpapa42]

I'm a regular reader of your work, FIN, and I'll be honest - I am rarely reminded that English is not your first language. Which says to me just how well you manage to write in the language.

I do agree that what it really comes down to is enjoying what you are doing. That's the key. It is what makes the effort worthwhile - more than any number of views or positive comments.

As for the grades-versus-stories debate, I've never found it that difficult to balance them. At least in my SWF game.

[Astil]

I'm a regular reader of your work, FIN, and I'll be honest - I am rarely reminded that English is not your first language. Which says to me just how well you manage to write in the language.

I do agree that what it really comes down to is enjoying what you are doing. That's the key. It is what makes the effort worthwhile - more than any number of views or positive comments.

As for the grades-versus-stories debate, I've never found it that difficult to balance them. At least in my SWF game.

I wonder why... :rolleyes:;):rolleyes:

[slack]

I tend to write pretty quick. Though I really don't go into nearly the same detail as some of you guys. One tip I use is I talk out some of my key promos. I mean, like I am in my car pretending to be someone cutting a promo. I look like an idiot, but I think some of my key up-coming promos should be pretty awesome.

At least they do to me.

BTW, thanks for doing threads like this, it makes me wanting to get back into writing an old dynasty that has been festering for months.

[Genadi]

I write each show pretty quickly, definitely not over days. I was taught to write without stopping to overthink too much in an attempt to keep a flow. I think everyone has different writing skills, as a few people have mentioned I think the most important thing is writing for yourself first. If people follow your work it's a bonus but not vital. :)

[FINisher]

It literally takes me 7 days to write a show. Granted, I go into more detail than most, and I bounce between scenes like a.

Sure, it takes me several days before I'm ready to write another show but when I do find the inspiration I write my shows in one or two sitting, which take up from 5 to 9hrs. The problem is trying to find suitable words for expressions and sayings, aswell as synonyms. I usually doublecheck every hard word from google :o

I'm doing a multiplayer thing atm, and I'm finding it REALLY weird booking for good ratings, rather than booking for a logical story. Almost as though I'm cheating.

My WEXXV and BBW. It was just Menace/Entertainment angles (with Ryu Kajahara) after another. Right from the start with BBW with changed 70% rate you could have 3-4 matches in the card, ranging from E+ to C but 6-8 angles which are rated from B to A*. :D Larry Wood from D popularity to A* in two weeks, same goes for Munemitsu Senmatsu.

I'm a regular reader of your work, FIN, and I'll be honest - I am rarely reminded that English is not your first language. Which says to me just how well you manage to write in the language.

Thanks man. I've actually heard that couple times before. The thing is, like I mentioned, I tend to doublecheck a lot of words. Guess I needed a reminder like this to cheer me up, ehh. :o

I write each show pretty quickly, definitely not over days. I was taught to write without stopping to overthink too much in an attempt to keep a flow.

I tend to write the show completely, then rewrite it, add something here and there, and to avoid typos and spelling mistakes and such.



All in all: I might be going the infinitywpi / Coastal Zone route. I like the layout of his and it's clearly a quick way to do your shows and maintain the personality and the feel of the diary.

[crayon]

Thanks man. I've actually heard that couple times before. The thing is, like I mentioned, I tend to doublecheck a lot of words. Guess I needed a reminder like this to cheer me up, ehh. :o

Put that down to many native speakers not even bothering to singlecheck their work in their minds before writing it out :)

[Hyde Hill]

Nah don't go that route Fin. Do the style that suits yourself and I think your current style does.

I am having the same struggle with match writups tough trying to find a balance between convying the match bare boned while still pleasing the ones who like longer ones. I hope I have made strides in my latest diary towards that goals but it's the part I am most worried about. Going to go more all out on my ppv's tough and I try to give more attention too the main event to satisfy the need to go more all out.

As for writing if it's a new show it generally takes a day to write out, also to keep flow but I do re-edit etc. Get the images all right etc. takes time in the first part but after that it's easy as you can copy paste from past posts. But that is not counting the days before that mulling about and taking notes on how I want things to go.

Also not a native speaker so the worr about repetition is also one of mind. Spelling wise I put the whole show in Word before posting it.

[Self]

As for the grades-versus-stories debate, I've never found it that difficult to balance them. At least in my SWF game.

Here's something I vaguely brought up in your thread once, but it got buried in other Off-Topic comments pretty fast, and... well... I don't feel strongly about it to badger you. You had a long Rich Money-Sean McFly promo, and rated both participants on Overness. That doesn't sit right with me (well... Sean was okay, he didn't say that much, but Money...)

I believe grades should realistically reflect what's going on in the scene. If you've got 2 guys in a 6-10 minute in-ring argument, where both talk a lot, I always use their Entertainment skills (or maybe Microphone if that's best) It doesn't matter whether their Overness is better. Overness, to me, is for a guy standing in the background, or if he's off-screen, being talked about.

EXAMPLE: I'm been doing a weekly interview segment, delving into the career of Jeremy Stone. I've really enjoyed it, although a couple of the segments felt could have used another rewrite. In the angle is Sam Strong (rated on Entertainment) and Jeremy Stone (also rated on Entertainment). Jeremy currently has A overness, and C- entertainment skills. I would probably get a better rating if I rated Jeremy on Overness, but that doesn't feel real to me. The grades should reflect the scenes in a realistic manner. Luckily, the way angles work, Jez's overness does boost the rating regardless.

Of course, the best way to do this is to write to the stats. Raul Hughes and The Dirty White Boys are usually rated on Menace, so I have them talk very little, and include "looming" "glaring" and other threatening words into the stage directions. Jeremy is usually rated on Overness, so I don't have him talk unless the plot requires it, and have LOTS of guys talking about him. Blonde Bombshell and Melody Cuthill are usually rated of Sex Appeal, so I mention their outfits and words like "gyrating", "writhing" and "innocently bending over". Catherine Quine is usually rated on Entertainment, not because it's better, but because that's the gimmick.

Now certain diary games, yeah, the promotions could be struggling (FCK finances aren't fantastic) but you, BigPapa, you're like totally winning. You can afford a little realism, right? What have you got to lose? You'll get an A instead of an A* for your next show :D

[Self]

I tend to write pretty quick. Though I really don't go into nearly the same detail as some of you guys. One tip I use is I talk out some of my key promos. I mean, like I am in my car pretending to be someone cutting a promo. I look like an idiot, but I think some of my key up-coming promos should be pretty awesome.

Absolutely. I do this all the time. Driving to work, cutting Steve DeColt promos, or ripping into "male chauvenist pigs" while in the shower. Just ad-libbing like a mother, seeing what sticks, and hoping you can remember it long enough to write it down.

[FlameSnoopy]

I tend to write pretty quick. Though I really don't go into nearly the same detail as some of you guys. One tip I use is I talk out some of my key promos. I mean, like I am in my car pretending to be someone cutting a promo. I look like an idiot, but I think some of my key up-coming promos should be pretty awesome.

At least they do to me.

Yeah this is really fun I must admit.

Regarding Self's "Angles need to be rated real", I definitely agree. I rate 'em like I think the angel in my head. Just like Self said, if someone is just looking pretty or mean in the background, they're rated sex appeal / menance. If someone is talking a lot, microphone. If there is a mic battle, entertaiment.

[Bigpapa42]

Here's something I vaguely brought up in your thread once, but it got buried in other Off-Topic comments pretty fast, and... well... I don't feel strongly about it to badger you. You had a long Rich Money-Sean McFly promo, and rated both participants on Overness. That doesn't sit right with me (well... Sean was okay, he didn't say that much, but Money...)

I believe grades should realistically reflect what's going on in the scene. If you've got 2 guys in a 6-10 minute in-ring argument, where both talk a lot, I always use their Entertainment skills (or maybe Microphone if that's best) It doesn't matter whether their Overness is better. Overness, to me, is for a guy standing in the background, or if he's off-screen, being talked about.


I've actually put some thought into this a few times. I do try to do it to an extent - I will typically only use Menace or Sex Appeal if that's what the worker is doing in the segment. But I don't know that going to the extreme with that approach is really any more realistic, either.

Take Randy Orton for example. I don't think Orton is particularly great on the mic. Not poor, by any means, but he's not exactly the Rock or Austin. I don't think he's nearly as natural or charismatic in his promos as many of the better guys in the WWE at the moment. Yet his promos always get a big reaction from the crowd. Part of it is what he says, but its moreso who is is and what he's done of late. He's the primary heel in the E of late and the fans react to him based on that. So in game terms, if I was to rate one of his segments based on Entertainment skills or Microphone, I don't know that would be more accurate than rating him on Overness. Batista is much the same to me.

I guess part of it is that I've always looked at the various segment rating options as a mechanism for maximizing segment grades rather than a realism mechanism. I mean, what kind of role could you have where Microphone ability is the only thing that matters? Even just an interviewer is going to need some charisma and acting in anything but the most basic interviews, to my mind. I do try to keep things realistic to a degree, but I've never been strict about it.

With a lot of my workers, I don't think it would matter to a huge degree. Most of my top guys are close to as good on the stick as they are popular. I've actually been relatively (for me) sloppy on a few shows of late, and just used a close angle rather than an ideal one, so I've had guys like Remo, Chris Morrisette, and Bloodstone rated on Entertainment rather than Overness. No major negative affect. Not that any of them are poor at Entertainment, but they are A* overness (except Bloodstone who is close), so ideally, they would be rated on that.

Anyway, its something I may start playing with a bit more, but I don't know that I'll worry too much about it. Mainly because I've become a wee bit less concerned about being as detailed in booking the show. Which sounds odd given the recent A and A* shows, but I think that is just down to my midcard and upper midcard getting stronger. The detailed approach to booking each that I usually use is relatively time-consuming.

[Phantom Stranger]

There are a lot of guys out there whose Menace would still get used, by me, for a spoken promo. Witness, say, Charlie Thatcher in Philly Pro. (There are also promos out there by women that really should rate on Sex Appeal rather than mic skills.) My dividing line in both cases is the question - afterward, would you be intended to remember things they said or just the gist and the way they said it?

On the other hand, also in Philly Pro, I kept Man Mountain Cahill absolutely mute until his speaking ability had risen to the point where Entertainment would start to factor in. Before that he was reliably rated on his Menace...

It's a swings and roundabouts thing with me. I tend to book according to the worker's strengths - just as bookers always have - and then when I construct the style of angle, beyond just 'this is the gist of what this segment gets across', I look at how they are. So Bryan Holmes shuts the hell up while John McClean talks him up, Emma Chase slinks and doesn't need to come up with anything memorable on the stick - though with her abilities, she absolutely can - Cahill terrifies people, and Charlie Thatcher makes your mum jokes and threatens to break your skull in.

[praguepride]

I look at it as the purpose of the worker in the angle.

If they're supposed to just make the crowd pop when they enter the ring, that's Overness. Spouting a catch phrase or making a generic threat, or when someone else is "name-dropping" that's overness.

If someone is just talking into a mic and nothing else, that's microphone (usually interviewers and announcers)

If someone is doing more then just talking, if they're expressing something, acting, engaging the audience, that's entertainment.

And finally, if a worker's sole purpose is intimidation, that's menace. They can talk, but have to keep dialogue to a minimum, otherwise it's entertainment.

A menacing worker who talks like a little girl (think of a certain boxer...) shouldn't open his mouth too much if he wants to be taken seriously.

[D-Lyrium]

i always do it 'by the book'. I.e, if they're making an announcement, they're rated on Microphone, whether they're strong in that skill or not. If they're cutting an more traditional promo, they're rated on Entertainment, etc, etc.

The only time I use Rated on: Overness is when they're not really doing anything important in the segment (which basically boils down to: They're being talked about, talked to or hyped up, or challenged).

Since overness is factored into it anyway, I figure it'll work out fine. From my limited experience with real world mods, Orton promo's generally get in the B-B+ range, which is about right. They might get a decent reaction, but nobody really remembers them, unlike people like Austin/Rock/Hogan, who're both over AND have great entertainment skills.

[Self]

Since overness is factored into it anyway, I figure it'll work out fine. From my limited experience with real world mods, Orton promo's generally get in the B-B+ range, which is about right. They might get a decent reaction, but nobody really remembers them, unlike people like Austin/Rock/Hogan, who're both over AND have great entertainment skills.

Exactly. Overness is already included. Jeremy Stone's on around C- Microphone, A Overness with me. I put him out on his own, rated on Microphone Skills, he should get at least a C+. Give him someone to talk about, that's a B-. If it's related to a Storyline, that's a B. Granted, to me, a C+ is a solid score, and a B is fanastic. Loftier promotions needs better grades, I'm can understand. It just seems cheap to me.

[Bigpapa42]

Exactly. Overness is already included. Jeremy Stone's on around C- Microphone, A Overness with me. I put him out on his own, rated on Microphone Skills, he should get at least a C+. Give him someone to talk about, that's a B-. If it's related to a Storyline, that's a B. Granted, to me, a C+ is a solid score, and a B is fanastic. Loftier promotions needs better grades, I'm can understand. It just seems cheap to me.

I guess the other reason I looked at Overness as a standard one to use is becuase of how many angles there seem to be in the default data set rated on that. My memory, there seems to be quiet a few. I though the way I did was fairly "realistic", but I can see the point.

Its something I'll look at playing with. With as over as guys like Rich Money, Jack Bruce, and Christian Faith are, I honeslty don't think it will change the angle grades much. I will probably stick with Overness for someone like McFly, who really doesn't talk much. Its just going to be a matter of finding or creating the angles to use...

[Bigpapa42]

Just figured I'd give a quick update regarding the angle booking discussion. Tried the approach suggested by Self on the last show I booked, and it really didn't make too much difference. Almost all of the angles graded out where I expected them to. I realized that for the majority of angles on the show, I would have already used that approach, though not intentionally. Had one angle that I might booked as Overness-Overness before, but I went with Entertainment-Overness and it graded an A. Given who was involved, it could've scored an A*, but I'm not sure if that had to with the angle used or the placement on the card - and I think the latter.

I'll keep playing with it and see what happens. If I get lazy, I might revert back to using the angles I've already created, as creating some new ones does take time.

[Self]

You may be getting similar scores, but at least it's honest. :)

It's not really a big deal. Seeing McFly is an A* rated talky segment just irked me is all. Dude can't talk. It's his only weakness. Embrace it!

[Phantom Stranger]

You may be getting similar scores, but at least it's honest. :)

It's not really a big deal. Seeing McFly is an A* rated talky segment just irked me is all. Dude can't talk. It's his only weakness. Embrace it!

In all honesty, he likely won't stay a weak talker long in the SWF either.

[Self]

True that. Watching Jeremy Stone's entertainment skills improve in FCK is pretty scary. 4-5 months in and I have few problems letting him talk if the storyline requires it. Same with a lot of guys, really. Maverick. DaLay. Bloodstone. Young Guns. Learnin' fast in that type of environment.

[Hyde Hill]

Also Bigpapa it's a differance using that aproach at the start of the game or when all your workers are already very over etc.

[Bigpapa42]

You may be getting similar scores, but at least it's honest. :)

It's not really a big deal. Seeing McFly is an A* rated talky segment just irked me is all. Dude can't talk. It's his only weakness. Embrace it!

That's really all it comes down to. I wasn't doing things that way with the intent to make things easier... I really did look at it as the "right" way. But I can see the other perspective and am willing to give it a try. Because running the SWF means starting the game with pretty much every advantage as it is. I'm almost surprised I haven't driven away readers with how relatively easy booking "well" with this game has become.

As for McFly, I will likely to continue to use him in Overness-rated segments most often, becuase he doesn't talk very often. In his last few angles, he hasn't even really had a microphone in hand. If he's going to talk, then I'll use Entertainment. And he has has already improved in those areas more than I expected. He was D+ in Microphone, Charisma, and Acting. He is now C- in Microphone and C in the other two. Even if he gets into the B range of those skills, I doubt he will be a regular talker. At least not the extent that Money, Bruce, and Gilmore do. Same thing with Big Cat Brandon - I just prefer the characterization of rarely talking.

[lazorbeak]

That's really all it comes down to. I wasn't doing things that way with the intent to make things easier... I really did look at it as the "right" way. But I can see the other perspective and am willing to give it a try. Because running the SWF means starting the game with pretty much every advantage as it is. I'm almost surprised I haven't driven away readers with how relatively easy booking "well" with this game has become.

Don't take it personally but even as a fan of SWF I couldn't ever get into your diary for that very reason. Your roster was just so loaded and every match pulled a great rating and it seemed to come at the expense of character. Regular A*s just aren't interesting to me; I much prefer when it's the exception, the result of happy coincedences of storytelling and wrestling, rather than some bizarro world where 20 guys can have a popularity of A or better and every match just gets a B- at an absolute minimum.

[Bigpapa42]

Don't take it personally but even as a fan of SWF I couldn't ever get into your diary for that very reason. Your roster was just so loaded and every match pulled a great rating and it seemed to come at the expense of character. Regular A*s just aren't interesting to me; I much prefer when it's the exception, the result of happy coincedences of storytelling and wrestling, rather than some bizarro world where 20 guys can have a rating of A or better and every match just gets a B- at an absolute minimum.

Oh, I would never take offense to honesty.

I never meant to let things get so bloated. The amount of talented workers on the roster - having workers as talented as El Leon and American Elemental on the undercard - is part of the reason for "easy" grades. But so is having so many workers that are so over. In the SWF, at least, that makes things pretty easy.

What would have kept things from getting overloaded in that regard, I think, would have been to keep the roster only slightly bigger than the recommended size. Without as big a roster, it would have been impossible to keep the main event scene as protected, which is what helped push so many of them up to A* so quickly and keep them there. It really just came down to manipulating the game mechanics. It was never really my intent to do things "cheap", but I just wanted to make sure I succeeded in the game. I didn't really think about it creating problems like that.

[lazorbeak]

Oh, I would never take offense to honesty.

I never meant to let things get so bloated. The amount of talented workers on the roster - having workers as talented as El Leon and American Elemental on the undercard - is part of the reason for "easy" grades. But so is having so many workers that are so over. In the SWF, at least, that makes things pretty easy.

What would have kept things from getting overloaded in that regard, I think, would have been to keep the roster only slightly bigger than the recommended size. Without as big a roster, it would have been impossible to keep the main event scene as protected, which is what helped push so many of them up to A* so quickly and keep them there. It really just came down to manipulating the game mechanics. It was never really my intent to do things "cheap", but I just wanted to make sure I succeeded in the game. I didn't really think about it creating problems like that.

Well unless I'm speaking for some silent demographic I'm unaware of I don't think it's a terribly widespread opinion. But yeah, to me it always looked like you were manipulating the game, rather than just having an entertaining diary. You're right when you say it's not that hard to book SWF; it's really not once you're familiar with the game. But what your version of SWF really lacked for me is variety. Without valleys, the peaks don't seem as impressive.

[SasoreGatame]

Here's a good example of what NOT do to.. (http://67.19.230.90/~arles/forum/showthread.php?t=42130)

[Bigpapa42]

Well unless I'm speaking for some silent demographic I'm unaware of I don't think it's a terribly widespread opinion. But yeah, to me it always looked like you were manipulating the game, rather than just having an entertaining diary. You're right when you say it's not that hard to book SWF; it's really not once you're familiar with the game. But what your version of SWF really lacked for me is variety. Without valleys, the peaks don't seem as impressive.

Well, I guess that's really what it comes down to - whether you want to call "power gaming" or "gaming for results", I guess that is what I was doing for a large part. It wasn't that intentional and I did try to keep things somewhat realistic for the diary... but look at back, I guess I didn't. I said from the beginning that the diary would be more about the stories and that grades wouldn't really matter, but that's never really been true.

And I realize what you mean - when everything is pretty good, how does it really matter when some is really good? Can an A match really stand out on a show full of B matches?

Ah, well... we live and learn... Or in a case like this, write and learn. While I will make some adjustments, I can't say I'm going to change absolutely everything about how I do things. A lot of it is kinda established at this point. But I will do things differently if I ever do another diary. SWF: Generation Supreme Version 2.0 would look very very different.

Interesting discussion for the Diary Tip thread... Guess it kinda belongs...

[foolinc]

Well, I guess that's really what it comes down to - whether you want to call "power gaming" or "gaming for results", I guess that is what I was doing for a large part. It wasn't that intentional and I did try to keep things somewhat realistic for the diary... but look at back, I guess I didn't. I said from the beginning that the diary would be more about the stories and that grades wouldn't really matter, but that's never really been true.

And I realize what you mean - when everything is pretty good, how does it really matter when some is really good? Can an A match really stand out on a show full of B matches?

Ah, well... we live and learn... Or in a case like this, write and learn. While I will make some adjustments, I can't say I'm going to change absolutely everything about how I do things. A lot of it is kinda established at this point. But I will do things differently if I ever do another diary. SWF: Generation Supreme Version 2.0 would look very very different.

Interesting discussion for the Diary Tip thread... Guess it kinda belongs...

Though it's really not fair to fault the grades when I can get T-Rex to a B from a C+ in the first month of an USPW game by using the McMahon Sr. feud with James Justice with a few logical monster unleashed angles thrown in (mind you that Justice goes from a B- to a B so it's not like I am transferring overness). Bigpapa's SWF diary is months into the game, has a large amount of "Justices" and "TRexs", and 2 A shows, one B show, and monthly PPVs. In the first month of February I ran a 4 minute standard interview segment with T-Rex and here is what I got:

T-Rex had an interview hyping his upcoming singles match with James Justice. - B
Notes: T-Rex and Sheik Mustafa are a good pairing, they play off each other well.


If I can get a B out of T-Rex's entertainment skill in one months time, why can't someone get really good grades out of ANYONE in a couple months time?

[Hyde Hill]

Yep plus hes playing the SWF it's kinda hard not to succeed if you know the game mechanics at all. I still find the diary intresting on the basis of the stories he tells on and off screen which is always the most important part imho.

[D-Lyrium]

People write dynasties for different reasons. BP was very clear right at the start of the dynasty that he knew it wasn't going to be terribly challenging, he was writing it for the storylines and the characters, which he does very very well indeed.

Are you seriously saying that the fact he's doing really well grade-wise makes it a bad dynasty, lazorbeak?

Like I said, some people's dynasties chronicle the rise of the company, some people focus more on the stories. Some do a bit of both. One isn't better than the others.

If BP was deliberately spamming angles he knew would rate highly, for no real purpose other than to get higher grades, you might have a point, but he's clearly not...

[lazorbeak]

People write dynasties for different reasons. BP was very clear right at the start of the dynasty that he knew it wasn't going to be terribly challenging, he was writing it for the storylines and the characters, which he does very very well indeed.

Are you seriously saying that the fact he's doing really well grade-wise makes it a bad dynasty, lazorbeak?

Ummmmm, no? Look at what I wrote:

to me it always looked like you were manipulating the game, rather than just having an entertaining diary. You're right when you say it's not that hard to book SWF; it's really not once you're familiar with the game. But what your version of SWF really lacked for me is variety. Without valleys, the peaks don't seem as impressive.

My problem is that to me it read like a conscious manipulation of the game, and not booking that I would actually enjoy watching, or reading about. While the characterizations aren't bad, at least in the early going there really wasn't enough variety for me. And I don't mean variety= a bunch of workers, I mean, sports entertainment isn't only about great matches and "serious" feuds.

Did I call it BAD somewhere and then forget about it? Because all I see is that I couldn't get into it?

If BP was deliberately spamming angles he knew would rate highly, for no real purpose other than to get higher grades, you might have a point, but he's clearly not...

Did you just gloss over the whole discussion earlier about McFly being rated on overness to preserve an A* rating during a back and forth promo? The fact that he has so many shows he can protect most of his roster and let them sit in the A* popularity? That doesn't just happen on its own. Also, I "might have a point"? Didn't I pretty ****ing clearly preface this with the fact that this is my personal preference as a reader? Or hey, how about this:

I'm almost surprised I haven't driven away readers with how relatively easy booking "well" with this game has become.

Seriously, let the guy defend his own diary. We were having a pretty interesting conversation and BP seemed to have a good handle on the point I was trying to make.

[Bigpapa42]

Not to answer for him, but I never took it as lazor saying its a bad dynasty, but simply that the continual success made it unappealing to him. Not to his tastes, and I can't argue with that.

And thanks for the kind words, D.

Now, someone else bring up their diary for discussion... I feel bad that this has turned into a discussion of mine...

Edit - looks like lazor responded before me... ah well...

[Self]

Now, someone else bring up their diary for discussion... I feel bad that this has turned into a discussion of mine...

Well, if you insist.

I've been having something of a dilemma with the Frontier Combat Kingdom. My roster is... Is it too powerful? I mean, I've got Christian Faith, who's one of the top American babyfaces, Jeremy Stone AND Steve DeColt... and Richard Eisen... and Sam Strong... Now, I got them all through legitimate means, but is it just me, or is that a bit off-putting? To have it so easy?

I'm actually in the "BigPapa's too strong" camp myself. I find his plethora of A*'s a tad irritating... which is pure jealousy on my part (CO-winner of DotM???) but am I in the same trap?

[Phantom Stranger]

I'm actually in the "BigPapa's too strong" camp myself. I find his plethora of A*'s a tad irritating... which is pure jealousy on my part (CO-winner of DotM???) but am I in the same trap?

If you are, it's a trap in your head.

You know when ratings interest me in diaries?

Two possibilities:

When they're surprising
When they're weak enough that there's suspense about dropping a size


The second case lends to the diary. Will they fall to Cult? What happens then? Can they get back?

Thing is, the first case also lends to the diary. Look at Pistol Pete Hall's career resurgence in bigpapa's diary. Shock ratings often lead to a burgeoning new star.

Ratings interest me, in short, when they affect the game.

We're playing a game here, right? And we're trying to interest people in the stories we tell with it, right?

So when that game's numbers feed back into the story, that's when the numbers are interesting. If Zeel makes Giant Tana a breakout superstar scoring As for his matches, this will interest people. If a surprise vein of good chemistry creates a storyline, this will interest people.

Other than that, I really don't give a monkey's about other people's ratings.

[Bigpapa42]

Well, if you insist.

I've been having something of a dilemma with the Frontier Combat Kingdom. My roster is... Is it too powerful? I mean, I've got Christian Faith, who's one of the top American babyfaces, Jeremy Stone AND Steve DeColt... and Richard Eisen... and Sam Strong... Now, I got them all through legitimate means, but is it just me, or is that a bit off-putting? To have it so easy?

I'm actually in the "BigPapa's too strong" camp myself. I find his plethora of A*'s a tad irritating... which is pure jealousy on my part (CO-winner of DotM???) but am I in the same trap?

Too much talent is only a negative to me if its not used. The war you have going on between Eisen, Strong, and Garcia makes great use of them.

As for the top level talent you have, I actually quite like it. I like that they all offer something different - Stone is the technician, Faith is the entertaining brawler, and DeColt is somewhere between. I don't know that its about how too much or not enough talent, but using what you have well. And you do that.

Then again, I am a touch biased when it comes to questions about "too much talent"...

[foolinc]

Well, if you insist.

I've been having something of a dilemma with the Frontier Combat Kingdom. My roster is... Is it too powerful? I mean, I've got Christian Faith, who's one of the top American babyfaces, Jeremy Stone AND Steve DeColt... and Richard Eisen... and Sam Strong... Now, I got them all through legitimate means, but is it just me, or is that a bit off-putting? To have it so easy?

I'm actually in the "BigPapa's too strong" camp myself. I find his plethora of A*'s a tad irritating... which is pure jealousy on my part (CO-winner of DotM???) but am I in the same trap?

It's in your head. The promotion is from a C-Verse draft. Of course it's going to be stacked. I know the promotion I drafted was:

Main Event: Remo, Liberty, Chris Storm (Lobster Warrior), Wolf Hawkins, Sammy Bach, Elmo Benson
Upper Midcard: Morpheus (American Buffalo), Art Reed, Phantasos (Danny Fonzerelli), Grandmaster Phunk, Clark Alexander, Harry Allen
Midcard: Steve Gumble, Fumihiro Ota, James Prudence, Freddy Huggins, Donald Jay (Donnie J), Ted Powell, Paul Huntingdon (Aristocrat), Nicky Champion
Lower Midcard: Marihito Masuko, Matt Sparrow, Grease Hogg, Kirk Jameson
Opener: VENOM, Masked Cougar, Casey Valentine, Dragon Del Arco Isis Jr.

Staff: Marv Earnest, Phil Vibert, Crippler Ray Kingman, Eugene Williams

BTW if anyone has that data I'd love to have it again.

[praguepride]

Well, if you insist.

I've been having something of a dilemma with the Frontier Combat Kingdom. My roster is... Is it too powerful? I mean, I've got Christian Faith, who's one of the top American babyfaces, Jeremy Stone AND Steve DeColt... and Richard Eisen... and Sam Strong... Now, I got them all through legitimate means, but is it just me, or is that a bit off-putting? To have it so easy?

I'm actually in the "BigPapa's too strong" camp myself. I find his plethora of A*'s a tad irritating... which is pure jealousy on my part (CO-winner of DotM???) but am I in the same trap?

I'll be honest, at first when I saw your roster I rolled my eyes a bit, but then seeing how you used them made me break down my own barriers because you weren't rubbing in how great your booking was.

Nothing irritates me like when someone grabs the best talent and then brags when they get A* matches and shows. yeah, let me know when you get an A match out of T.M.A, then you can brag :D

But what you do provide is a completely different setting for those characters. Most of them are locked into their promotions with no real chance of escape unless you sim a dozen years and their promotion goes backrupt or falls in size or something. It's not normal for Jack DeColt to be wrestling Sam Keith and you've given them compelling personalities that it turns your diary into a "fantasy dream match" type scenario which does have an appealing novelty to it because you just dont' see it anywhere else.

So, the tl;dr is that your compelling characters more then overcompensate for your bloated talent pool.

If you really want to discuss your dairy further, send me a PM.

[Bigpapa42]

I'll be honest, at first when I saw your roster I rolled my eyes a bit, but then seeing how you used them made me break down my own barriers because you weren't rubbing in how great your booking was.

Nothing irritates me like when someone grabs the best talent and then brags when they get A* matches and shows. yeah, let me know when you get an A match out of T.M.A, then you can brag :D

But what you do provide is a completely different setting for those characters. Most of them are locked into their promotions with no real chance of escape unless you sim a dozen years and their promotion goes backrupt or falls in size or something. It's not normal for Jack DeColt to be wrestling Sam Keith and you've given them compelling personalities that it turns your diary into a "fantasy dream match" type scenario which does have an appealing novelty to it because you just dont' see it anywhere else.

So, the tl;dr is that your compelling characters more then overcompensate for your bloated talent pool.

If you really want to discuss your dairy further, send me a PM.

That's a pretty good summary, PP. The "unique" aspect to FCK is one of the things I enjoy most. Its a collection of talent that you would just never otherwise see together in a game, yet it doesn't feel just randomly thrown together either. As much as the characterization and promos (which are very good), that's what hooked me.

[cmdrsam]

Looking for some insperation here guys. I'm kinda old school, I've liked the old school tag team matches. Add your favorite team, The RNR Express, The Fabulas Ones, Lawler/Dundee, well you get the picture. I hate, and I do mean hate writing out the matchs. I want to include more of them in my diary. Seventies to mid 80's just screams tag team divisions to me. But I can not find a easy way to properly put the match in words.

Any thoughts?

[Bigpapa42]

Looking for some insperation here guys. I'm kinda old school, I've liked the old school tag team matches. Add your favorite team, The RNR Express, The Fabulas Ones, Lawler/Dundee, well you get the picture. I hate, and I do mean hate writing out the matchs. I want to include more of them in my diary. Seventies to mid 80's just screams tag team divisions to me. But I can not find a easy way to properly put the match in words.

Any thoughts?

Nothing wrong with just a fairly basic description, especially if the match isn't an overly important one. If you want a bit more detail than that, then just figure out the basics of how you want the match to unfold... Did it follow the "formula" of isolation leading to a hot tag? Was it open and even? Lots of double-teaming? Cheating heels? Give a basic description of that, add a flourish or two, and you have a decent write-up.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep as long as some part is intresting for the reader and more importantly you. Look at infitywipy or more recently some of bigpapa's undercard matches (no slight intended I actually admire being able to do that). Just convey a simple message as to what happend and a grade is fine.

[Vitamin E]

Writing matches really doesnthave to be that hard. You dont need to have 5 paragraphs, but I would suggest putting more detail for bigger shows.

Matches are also good for putting characters over. Think of it this way. The WWF could have had as many Taker promos they wanted, but if they turned the lights out during his matches, how could they expect to get him over as a supernatural monster if we couldnt see him sit up out of nowhere or see how he destroyed opponents or seen how he was controlled by Paul Bearer?

As for help with writing matches, you can be brief. A few sentences. Readers cant really get anything out of "So and so dominated then won with a roll up." It's cheating them to me. Just play the match in your head, think how the characters would work in the match, then write down what you think someone reading an internet report of the match would need to/should know. Was there a hot tag? how did the partners work? Was there animosity between the foes having to tag? What changed the pace of the match? What shifted the momentum? Things like that.

[Bigpapa42]

Yep as long as some part is intresting for the reader and more importantly you. Look at infitywipy or more recently some of bigpapa's undercard matches (no slight intended I actually admire being able to do that). Just convey a simple message as to what happend and a grade is fine.

Its gonna take a lot more than that to offend, Hyde.

At an earlier point in my diary, I got the idea in my head that even simple little squash matches should have some detail. And it started to get pretty cumbersome try to come up with detail for that many matches, especially given having two shows to write-up. I try to pick and choose carefully which matches will just get a brief summary and which ones get an actual proper write-up. So far, haven't had any complaints. So its an approach that I would recommend to anyone, especially when writing up some of those matches is starting to feel like a burden.

[Vitamin E]

Picking and choosing which matches to give more detail is good as well. A match that goes 13 minutes should be given more detail than a match that goes 3 minutes, otherwise it's just saying that no one match is more important than any other match on the card, which is bad to do.

[angeldelayette]

Picking and choosing which matches to give more detail is good as well. A match that goes 13 minutes should be given more detail than a match that goes 3 minutes, otherwise it's just saying that no one match is more important than any other match on the card, which is bad to do.

I generally focus on the match grades, rather than the time. The better a match is, the more detail there should be IMO. Also the main event generally gets a good writeup unless it's a complete and total trainwreck.

[d_w_w]

Picking and choosing which matches to give more detail is good as well. A match that goes 13 minutes should be given more detail than a match that goes 3 minutes, otherwise it's just saying that no one match is more important than any other match on the card, which is bad to do.

I generally focus on the match grades, rather than the time. The better a match is, the more detail there should be IMO. Also the main event generally gets a good writeup unless it's a complete and total trainwreck.

These are both good approaches.

Personally, I focus on the storyline relevance of the match. If it's a match that has implications for the diary moving forward, I'll write it out in detail (regardless of the length and rating). If it's "just" a match for the sake of a match, I'll probably make it pretty short.

[Bigpapa42]

These are both good approaches.

Personally, I focus on the storyline relevance of the match. If it's a match that has implications for the diary moving forward, I'll write it out in detail (regardless of the length and rating). If it's "just" a match for the sake of a match, I'll probably make it pretty short.

I try to mix it up a bit. But a lot of times, it does come down to how much the match means in the greater scheme of things. For example, I can throw almost any opponent against Christian Faith for his title and get at least a B grade. Assuming its usually going to main event the show, its probably going to one of the longest matches. But its a stone-standard title defense with no further implications and Faith is never really is any danger of losing his title, a detailed write-up seems pretty unnecessary.

[Self]

For me, it usually just depends on how much material I have. I try to write for time but sometimes I don't have 34 minutes worth of material, or I have an action-packed 4 minutes.

My plan for TV going forward is to keep everything but the Main Event as short as humanly possible, while letting the Main Event breathe with full-sentences and several intricate spots. It should make it seem important, like the main reason you'd be reading the show, as opposed to the last match on the card, or the one that would get the best rating.

Bizarre point of interest. I give up on 87% of wrestling shows as the main event begins these days. I'm enjoying Smackdown, and I like the main event players on it, but I've only watched a handful of Main Event matches since the draft.