Lakeside's Grand Finale (Mafia)

[Tha Black Phenom]

I had the ability to skip my investigation one night in order to defend myself from anyone who went after me.

Am I the only one who smells nothing good from this?

Could easily say that it was conveniently this night that you lost your investigative abilities to become the recruiter, or even the hitman/don.

[mistaken]

You know that never applies in these games :rolleyes:

because we lack all of the variables, anti you KNOW things that the other 6 of us have to take on faith.

Sure it does.

It's what i used as an argument to get Actarus lynched.

A new recruiter/Killer can't use their old abilities, so which one of you can't account for your past abilities.

Simple conditional statement.
If A then B
A
therefore B
And thus Actarus was hung.

Mind if I ask you why you waited till this late in the game to be so gung ho?

You and your buddy Mistaken.


It really does look.. odd.

but here goes, why i trust shape

IF shape game me good intel THEN when I searched grunt i would find a BD
i searched grunt and found a BD
THEREFORE Shape gave me good intel
IF shape gives me good intel twice and the second intel is more powerful than the first then shape must be town
I searched the second corpse and found what was suggested
THEREFORE shape must be town
IF shape was town THEN shape would not be lieing about his abilities
IF Shapes abilities make him unchatable THEN he can not be recruited
Shape is town
THEREFORE shape can not have been recruited

now the entire proof above is predicated on trust.
Shape trusts me, because he knows what he has told me, and I have step by step proven that to the best of my abilities I have 1)listened to shapes note advise 2) used the powers I found to the betterment of the town 3) I have continued to follow his advise giving him no reason to doubt I am receiving advice from and outside scummy source.

[Bear]

Am I the only one who smells nothing good from this?

Could easily say that it was conveniently this night that you lost your investigative abilities to become the recruiter, or even the hitman/don.

It would explain why Arrows recently came up clean if he wasn't the Don. I was hoping he'd investigate Rev and solve this mess.

[mistaken]

Am I the only one who smells nothing good from this?

Could easily say that it was conveniently this night that you lost your investigative abilities to become the recruiter, or even the hitman/don.

totally find MJ a little off, but Mafia needs to vote with the town against the pack to have any hope of survival.

[Antithesis]

because we lack all of the variables, anti you KNOW things that the other 6 of us have to take on faith.



but here goes, why i trust shape

IF shape game me good intel THEN when I searched grunt i would find a BD
i searched grunt and found a BD
THEREFORE Shape gave me good intel
IF shape gives me good intel twice and the second intel is more powerful than the first then shape must be town
I searched the second corpse and found what was suggested
THEREFORE shape must be town
IF shape was town THEN shape would not be lieing about his abilities
IF Shapes abilities make him unchatable THEN he can not be recruited
Shape is town
THEREFORE shape can not have been recruited

now the entire proof above is predicated on trust.
Shape trusts me, because he knows what he has told me, and I have step by step proven that to the best of my abilities I have 1)listened to shapes note advise 2) used the powers I found to the betterment of the town 3) I have continued to follow his advise giving him no reason to doubt I am receiving advice from and outside scummy source.

Did Shape tell you to switch Mareo and TBP?

Because that didn't seem to hurt the scum at all.

[mjdgoldeneye]

Am I the only one who smells nothing good from this?

Could easily say that it was conveniently this night that you lost your investigative abilities to become the recruiter, or even the hitman/don.

That doesn't really make a whole lot of sense... Why would I claim that at all, then?

Does anyone have any reason to believe I WASN'T protecting myself last night?

[Bear]

Did Shape tell you to switch Mareo and TBP?

Because that didn't seem to hurt the scum at all.

Mistaken, did you get the idea to use TBP from me? Glotnot used the nexus in Lakeside 1 as a weapon and it worked so I hinted Mistaken use TBP and someone likely to be a target for a night kill.

[Antithesis]

That doesn't really make a whole lot of sense... Why would I claim that at all, then?

Does anyone have any reason to believe I WASN'T protecting myself last night?

My main worry with you is Mareo.

If you didn't kill him then the game is over.

Somebody should pull up Mareo's previous investigatiopns. See if he's targetted MJ lately.

If he had, then he'd had no reason to do so again.

[Antithesis]

In fact actually.. wait.

Didn't Mareo target MJ a couple of nights ago?

[mistaken]

Did Shape tell you to switch Mareo and TBP?

Because that didn't seem to hurt the scum at all.

nope, no one was willing to give me anything other round about answers on how to use the BD.

Shape said use it as a weapon, something I am still unclear on how to do properly.

I did not believe Mareo's claim after the Arrows incident, and found TBP's poor little old lady routine suspect. I thought a BD on them might reveal if one or both of them were up to no good.

It did not work out as well as I had hoped but with the death of mareo, at least in my eyes it locks up any loose ends on TBP's claim. she doesn't target anyone and carries a brick for anyone who might physically target her.

[mjdgoldeneye]

My main worry with you is Mareo.

If you didn't kill him then the game is over.

Somebody should pull up Mareo's previous investigatiopns. See if he's targetted MJ lately.

If he had, then he'd had no reason to do so again.

Why is the game over?

[Tha Black Phenom]

That doesn't really make a whole lot of sense... Why would I claim that at all, then?

Does anyone have any reason to believe I WASN'T protecting myself last night?

Because you have no one in mind to "investigate"?

You wouldn't "target" any of the confirmed townies in here, it's obvious they're town/wouldn't be recruited. You wouldn't want to make a false claim that you targeted a shady-looking guy and he came up town/scum.

[mistaken]

Did Shape tell you to switch Mareo and TBP?

Because that didn't seem to hurt the scum at all.

because if he didn't target you and die by accident..

it is pack 3
mafia 1
town 3

and the scum have a distinct advantage.

[Antithesis]

Why is the game over?

Because if you didn't kill Mareo, then who did?

Main assumption would be Arrows lied, and he wasn't the Don.

Of course, if he wasn't you'd have a little trouble explaining your investigation result on him.

[mistaken]

Because you have no one in mind to "investigate"?

You wouldn't "target" any of the confirmed townies in here, it's obvious they're town/wouldn't be recruited. You wouldn't want to make a false claim that you targeted a shady-looking guy and he came up town/scum.

but why not target me?

I know there is the whole miller thing out there (suggested by some one that came up pack, which still makes me scratch my head) but no one has ever tested that.

I've been followed. admitted to be a grave digger and hung my whole towness on my actions (which have been open and confirmable) but I have never been investigated.

but MJ is right in thinking he should be a target. if he is town that is. he's the town investigator and one of the few not immune to a night kill.

killing Mareo seem kind of a waste unless the killer is undead and not mafia.

[Antithesis]

Because if you didn't kill Mareo, then who did?

Main assumption would be Arrows lied, and he wasn't the Don.

Of course, if he wasn't you'd have a little trouble explaining your investigation result on him.

In fact, I been so busy with Shape's bs that we havent really given this a lot of thought.

If there is a Don, killing the night after a mafia member weas lynched, that means he always was the Don.

Arrows should have come up scummy, but he didn't according to you.

Which would mean you lied.

If i check and see if it is true Mareo investigated you a couple of phases ago, and therefore he'd probably wanna check someone else out, that probably adds to the speculation that you didn't kill Mareo, which even goes further to point towards a Don.

[Antithesis]

but why not target me?

I know there is the whole miller thing out there (suggested by some one that came up pack, which still makes me scratch my head) but no one has ever tested that.

I've been followed. admitted to be a grave digger and hung my whole towness on my actions (which have been open and confirmable) but I have never been investigated.

but MJ is right in thinking he should be a target. if he is town that is. he's the town investigator and one of the few not immune to a night kill.

killing Mareo seem kind of a waste unless the killer is undead and not mafia.

If teh killer is Undead, then why hasn't he killed before?

The only kills accounted for the last couple of nights have been Mafia kills.

According to Arrows none of the kills shown have been Undead.. they all were either Mafia or unaligned folks or Townie vigs

[mjdgoldeneye]

Because you have no one in mind to "investigate"?

You wouldn't "target" any of the confirmed townies in here, it's obvious they're town/wouldn't be recruited. You wouldn't want to make a false claim that you targeted a shady-looking guy and he came up town/scum.

There is no reason why I'd have made that story up unless it somehow involves a complete lack of logic on my part!

The game is still going and I still have the power to investigate... Last night was the best time to protect myself, and if you disagree, you're wrong!

I had just helped lynch scum and I wasn't Pack yet... I didn't see how targeting me could have been avoided...

[Antithesis]

Night Phase 12

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4269/lakesidegy3.jpg

Moving in the night, he met his target. After a conversation the group grew larger.

-

He moved in on his target. A quick flash and the man fell dead.

-

supermareo is dead. He was Lakeside Aligned

It is now Day Phase 13. You have until 2:00 PM EST Novemember 25th to reach majority. With 7 remaining it is 4 for majority.



He moved in on his target. A quick flash and the man fell dead.

This isn't a self defense Kill

This is someone targeting mareo to kill him!

[Antithesis]

Ladies and Gentlemen....

someone is lying about their role.

And thats different from cults and recruitments.

This is something we can figure out

[mjdgoldeneye]

Because if you didn't kill Mareo, then who did?

Main assumption would be Arrows lied, and he wasn't the Don.

Of course, if he wasn't you'd have a little trouble explaining your investigation result on him.

I had trouble explaining it when it happened... I didn't have any reason to expect the result I got!

You are once again making assumptions, however.

Why does he have to have been the don? There is nothing that says dons have to come up as town and nothing that says no one else can...

Maybe Arrows really was a Charlatan? Reverse miller, perhaps?

Regardless, I don't know how the game's over...

[Tha Black Phenom]

There is no reason why I'd have made that story up unless it somehow involves a complete lack of logic on my part!

The game is still going and I still have the power to investigate... Last night was the best time to protect myself, and if you disagree, you're wrong!

I had just helped lynch scum and I wasn't Pack yet... I didn't see how targeting me could have been avoided...

Of course you'll claim you still investigate. By the time the next night phase rolls around, you kill/recruit whoever and the whole game's done for, for the townies.

Last night was so.. convenient. You've claimed investigator since freakin' day 2, and you decide to protect yourself NOW?

Hmm.

[mistaken]

before we lynched arrows? (all conjecture)

arrows, mj

rev, bear?

mistaken, anti, shape, mareo, TBP

arrows know that if he strikes a deal that as don & gunman, he preserves the id of his Mafia investigtor MJ and they take out rev by lynch and kill a town at night along with his vote manip, he's got 3 or the 4 votes he needs to control the game just by making the deal he could have won, with just one wrong vote placed on a town they could have jumped and secured the mis-lynch

instead we lynch arrows and end up, with MJ taking out a town person, but now the pack just one vote shy.

mj

rev, bear?, anti

mistaken, shape, TBP

[Antithesis]

I had trouble explaining it when it happened... I didn't have any reason to expect the result I got!

You are once again making assumptions, however.

Why does he have to have been the don? There is nothing that says dons have to come up as town and nothing that says no one else can...

Maybe Arrows really was a Charlatan? Reverse miller, perhaps?

Regardless, I don't know how the game's over...



7 people. A Cultie recuiter and a recruit and a killer and a daily lynch.

Excuse me, I mean over for the town.
heh

[mistaken]

If I were pack, I would just be standing by waiting for a some one to throw a townie name up there by accident. I mean that is all they would need to control the whole thing, end the day and go into the night to either recruit or kill to win the game.

so the fact no one jumped on bear, a little suspicious.

but the fact that REV got to 3 votes and the hammer of God did not fall from the sky to strike down the townie...sorry for me that is the nail in REV's coffin.

[Antithesis]

The killer killed Mareo but not MJ...

[mjdgoldeneye]

First off, to claim I'm mafia is an incredible insult... I've helped lynch a few mafia members and have been asking for Arrows to be lynched for AGES.

The only thing I could logically be is Lakeside or Pack.

And, why is it "convenient" that I protected myself last night?

Answer me this: Can you tell me when would have been a better time? Can you tell me why using it last night would have been a bad idea in any case? Can you tell me why it would make any sense to make a story like that up at such an inopportune time?

Would you RATHER me lie?

Can anyone, at all, (or for that matter, has anyone we know to be a townie in the past) think of a case in which anything I've done or said has not checked out? If you want to claim my result on Arrows, why would I ever say I got such a result?

There is no reason why I'd be the liar aside from you making me one in your minds...

For once, Occam's Razor suggests I'm telling the truth! ME! TELLING THE TRUTH!

[Bear]

There is no reason why I'd have made that story up unless it somehow involves a complete lack of logic on my part!

The game is still going and I still have the power to investigate... Last night was the best time to protect myself, and if you disagree, you're wrong!

I had just helped lynch scum and I wasn't Pack yet... I didn't see how targeting me could have been avoided...

Slip?[/joke]

[Antithesis]

If I were pack, I would just be standing by waiting for a some one to throw a townie name up there by accident. I mean that is all they would need to control the whole thing, end the day and go into the night to either recruit or kill to win the game.

so the fact no one jumped on bear, a little suspicious.

but the fact that REV got to 3 votes and the hammer of God did not fall from the sky to strike down the townie...sorry for me that is the nail in REV's coffin.


You are assuming all of those 3 votes were from Townies.


And just because there is a five minute window where people act like scum doesn't mean everyone is gonna lose their brain and suddenly act scummy too.


We are still on the first day at what is maybe the most important day in the game for the twon and you and two otehrs took a guy -1 to lynch because, well, no one has yet to give a rational explanation.

But sure, thats proof of something alright.

[mistaken]

The killer killed Mareo but not MJ...

lets see

anti was protected by rev (taking them out of the killing equation)
shape sent a poem so he did not become the killer.
tbp can not target
bear, Mistaken & mj are all that are left

and one of those three must be the mafia killer and one must be pack.

[Antithesis]

Slip?[/joke]

I think he's saying he became pack recently.

Nice catch btw. People get lynched for far less.

[mjdgoldeneye]

If I were pack, I would just be standing by waiting for a some one to throw a townie name up there by accident. I mean that is all they would need to control the whole thing, end the day and go into the night to either recruit or kill to win the game.

so the fact no one jumped on bear, a little suspicious.

but the fact that REV got to 3 votes and the hammer of God did not fall from the sky to strike down the townie...sorry for me that is the nail in REV's coffin.

There wasn't enough time, I don't think, for his lid to slam closed...

If you think Rev's scum, I do too, and I'd lynch him right now.

If I'm not scum, and Anti's not scum, and The Shape's not scum, and (presumably) mistaken isn't scum, perhaps Rev is the killer and the husband/wife are together and were possibly recruited together?

[mistaken]

You are assuming all of those 3 votes were from Townies.


And just because there is a five minute window where people act like scum doesn't mean everyone is gonna lose their brain and suddenly act scummy too.


We are still on the first day at what is maybe the most important day in the game for the twon and you and two otehrs took a guy -1 to lynch because, well, no one has yet to give a rational explanation.

But sure, thats proof of something alright.

I am going to be, I have given a rationa lexplination of my beliefs and you are responding as expected as you should as the new member of the pack and former face of all that is town.

you are not even being targeted, and are defending rev tooth and nail. the mans rope is ready.

and unless something huge is in the full release tomorrow. the mafia man and the three of us that are town need to lynch REV.

[Antithesis]

There wasn't enough time, I don't think, for his lid to slam closed...

If you think Rev's scum, I do too, and I'd lynch him right now.

If I'm not scum, and Anti's not scum, and The Shape's not scum, and (presumably) mistaken isn't scum, perhaps Rev is the killer and the husband/wife are together and were possibly recruited together?

Husband Wife combo is something.

I mean why have them in the game if they can't ever hook up?

[mjdgoldeneye]

I think he's saying he became pack recently.

Nice catch btw. People get lynched for far less.

Are you serious? Really?

You can't put that into context?

That's an infuriatingly stupid thing to say...

[mistaken]

There wasn't enough time, I don't think, for his lid to slam closed...

If you think Rev's scum, I do too, and I'd lynch him right now.

If I'm not scum, and Anti's not scum, and The Shape's not scum, and (presumably) mistaken isn't scum, perhaps Rev is the killer and the husband/wife are together and were possibly recruited together?

still leaves Rev as the recruiter. still where the vote needs to be, just like it need to be arrows yesterday.

[mjdgoldeneye]

For the sake of it, I'll rearrange the sentence...

I didn't see how targeting me could have been avoided... I had just helped lynch scum and I wasn't Pack yet...

See? :rolleyes:

[Bear]

I think he's saying he became pack recently.

Nice catch btw. People get lynched for far less.

I'm watching everything. Always. But that could have just been a phrasing problem. There are other actions that have piqued my interest.

[mjdgoldeneye]

Can the Pack kill? Maybe the Pack is 3 deep somehow and they have a killer...

[mistaken]

For the sake of it, I'll rearrange the sentence...



See? :rolleyes:

your being goaded by two pack members MJ, don't take it to hard.

[mistaken]

sleep, night all

[Tha Black Phenom]

First off, to claim I'm mafia is an incredible insult... I've helped lynch a few mafia members and have been asking for Arrows to be lynched for AGES.

The only thing I could logically be is Lakeside or Pack.

And, why is it "convenient" that I protected myself last night?

Answer me this: Can you tell me when would have been a better time? Can you tell me why using it last night would have been a bad idea in any case? Can you tell me why it would make any sense to make a story like that up at such an inopportune time?

Would you RATHER me lie?

Can anyone, at all, (or for that matter, has anyone we know to be a townie in the past) think of a case in which anything I've done or said has not checked out? If you want to claim my result on Arrows, why would I ever say I got such a result?

There is no reason why I'd be the liar aside from you making me one in your minds...

For once, Occam's Razor suggests I'm telling the truth! ME! TELLING THE TRUTH!

Fine then, maybe you're not the killer. Recruiter or recruited, definitely.

Why is it convenient? Because the number of players are dwindling, the night phase arrives. There's a kill. There's a recruit. And you magically do not use your investigative ability for something you could've well done in the last TEN nights.

It makes sense because it's convenient.

[Antithesis]

I am going to be, I have given a rationa lexplination of my beliefs and you are responding as expected as you should as the new member of the pack and former face of all that is town.

you are not even being targeted, and are defending rev tooth and nail. the mans rope is ready.

and unless something huge is in the full release tomorrow. the mafia man and the three of us that are town need to lynch REV.

I am not defending rev so much as pointing out the deficiencies in the arguments against him.

If I thought Rev was scum he'd be dead now. But its zero hour for the town. Either we get this right, or we lose. And stuff like, 'I think Rev is scummy because I think he recruited Anti, and I think Anti is scummy because if I were cum I'd want to recruit him.' isn't in anyway a strong enough argument to lynch the guy.

In fact, it is such a pitifully bad argument to make, I seriously think Shape looks scummy for even making it.

But sure, sure, me pointing out that an argument is silly is obviously a scum tell. because Scum hate poorly reasoned lynches.

[mjdgoldeneye]

To be honest, I wouldn't really be surprised if there's magically some extra faction we never knew about still going around...

Maybe we're all secretly bad guys stuck in an unbreakable triangle...

:p

Or, more likely as far as my history goes, I'm the only townie left and my lack of paying attention keeps me from seeing that...

Either way, I have to head out. Please don't lynch me (at least until i get back after school).

[Antithesis]

Are you serious? Really?

You can't put that into context?

That's an infuriatingly stupid thing to say...

Are you upset now?

Good. Now you understand whats going on between Shape and I.

Do you think he set me off on purpose or was it just an accident?

[mjdgoldeneye]

Fine then, maybe you're not the killer. Recruiter or recruited, definitely.

Why is it convenient? Because the number of players are dwindling, the night phase arrives. There's a kill. There's a recruit. And you magically do not use your investigative ability for something you could've well done in the last TEN nights.

It makes sense because it's convenient.

You are AVOIDING MY QUESTIONS.

Why, in the blue hell, would I have any particular reason to protect myself on any of those nights? (Remember, I've only had my gun since night 6...)

Why would I have done anything other than claim to have investigated someone? Why would I have pulled a completely irrelevant story out of my ass that I assumed would cause more of a ruckus than it did?

"Convenient" and "Similar to running uphill, against the wind, naked, in a hailstorm" are two different ideas... :rolleyes:

[Bear]

I am not defending rev so much as pointing out the deficiencies in the arguments against him.

If I thought Rev was scum he'd be dead now. But its zero hour for the town. Either we get this right, or we lose. And stuff like, 'I think Rev is scummy because I think he recruited Anti, and I think Anti is scummy because if I were cum I'd want to recruit him.' isn't in anyway a strong enough argument to lynch the guy.

In fact, it is such a pitifully bad argument to make, I seriously think Shape looks scummy for even making it.

But sure, sure, me pointing out that an argument is silly is obviously a scum tell. because Scum hate poorly reasoned lynches.

I was hoping you would address the argument I made against him. It's not really your job, but you've taken the mantle.

[Tha Black Phenom]

You are AVOIDING MY QUESTIONS.

Why, in the blue hell, would I have any particular reason to protect myself on any of those nights? (Remember, I've only had my gun since night 6...)

Why would I have done anything other than claim to have investigated someone? Why would I have pulled a completely irrelevant story out of my ass that I assumed would cause more of a ruckus than it did?

"Convenient" and "Similar to running uphill, against the wind, naked, in a hailstorm" are two different ideas... :rolleyes:

damn man, you're an investigator lol. For some reason I didn't spot, scum chose not to off investigators at the start of the game, but I damn well would protected myself at one point if I - as you like to claim so much - outed Pack members and harassed mafia members here and there.

Maybe you didn't want to take the risk of inaccurately confirming someone. Only people confirmed town are Shape and I, and we're untargetable. Convenience, maybe. Could not be.

I'm heading off as well, but others, just keep this into account.

[mjdgoldeneye]

I think I figured something out, after I logged off for the night... :rolleyes:

I know that I'm not scum, and I know Anti isn't the killer. I think it's been said that TBP has been proven to have the power claimed. We also know mistaken is a grave digger. (Right?)

Bear
Imarevenant
The Shape

One of them is the killer...? I believe Shape isn't the killer, so have at it, I guess...

[Antithesis]

I was hoping you would address the argument I made against him. It's not really your job, but you've taken the mantle.

Well you could quote it again i guess.


My contention is this, barring a revelation from Astil, I think I blocked Rev.

Of course, this may mean nothing, he could very well be scum.

But from that it does not follow that I am scum.

Fortunately for me, the argument is dependant on Rev being the recruiter... which means the town would logically want to lynch him first.

If he comes up town aligned, then you guys will know that I was being truthful.

However, if he comes up town aligned,

we are down to 6 players.. 2 Pack perhaps one unexplained killer scum and 3 -4 townies MAX

A Kill or a successful recruitment tonight means the town loses the majority and the lynch, and the cult will most likely win the game.

Again, Rev could be scum. But I think i've earned enough townie love for the benefit of the doubt and waiting on Astil.

And you have to remember it got down to -1 to lynch.

There is no reason for real townies to risk that, mush less cuss me out and hotdog when All I ever said to start with was that Astil would be sending out more detailed PMs.

[mjdgoldeneye]

damn man, you're an investigator lol. For some reason I didn't spot, scum chose not to off investigators at the start of the game, but I damn well would protected myself at one point if I - as you like to claim so much - outed Pack members and harassed mafia members here and there.

Maybe you didn't want to take the risk of inaccurately confirming someone. Only people confirmed town are Shape and I, and we're untargetable. Convenience, maybe. Could not be.

I'm heading off as well, but others, just keep this into account.

Keep in mind I am quite sure I'd become a PGO for the night and I had plenty of people to look into.

Last night, I couldn't wait any longer and had to put some people at risk...

Never before last night was the situation ripe...

[Bear]

My original reason for going after Rev was a combination of poem and conflicting claim. 4 untouchable town was a stretch for me, so I pursued it and the first thing he did was attempt to spin doubt on me.

I thought good fortune alluded to Lucky guy.

[Antithesis]

I've given it more thought.

There was a reason I targetted rev in the first place for blocking. he has been acting different.

I don't just mean the character. It doesn't seem as though he's been as helpful as he has in past games where he was town. I did, in fact, get a scummy vibe from him last few days.

I hate to think we've been counting on me roleblocking scum and it may very well be that I can't buy them off.

Unless Astil basically convinces me in the PM that Rev is legit, or rev appears and somehow proves that he isn't scum, then I am prepared to vote on him tomorrow.

And If it comes out that rev is the recruiter or teh Killer. I would really hate to think that Astil sent me a PM that made it clear something was up with Arrows when i hired him, but obfuscates for Rev. I strongly hope tahst the case.

Its like I told Derek during the Eville game. Ok you hinted at me hiding in one write up where other people were around, now you gotta do it all the time. Why, Because there is a cult in the game, and Mod being picky and choosy even about one sentence can determine who lives or who dies. One write up where i say i was there but mod doesn't show it anymore and boom, next thing you know people would say I am lying.

I don't know anything about Arrows/Moe and the message of hate deal. Thats between them. But I do know one scum I hired it was obvious something was different. Not out and out.. "ohh you hired scum" but something to show I didn't get my money's worth.

That's why i argued for rev. I gotta believe Astil is fair. I guess I'd bet the game on it.

We will see.

[Bear]

Fair enough. For his sake, I hope it is clear cut and an easy choice. From all the times I've been bought, I've recieved some sort of message in which I confirm being bought. One of the first ones even said you looked familiar and it'd be worth helping you.

Personally, Anti, you stand to have the most gain from his death. If he's town, you're clear and if you're behind it, I'll feel more comfortable about it being the best choice.

[Astil]

It is now Day Phase 13. You have until 2:00 PM EST November 25th to reach majority. With 7 remaining it is 4 for majority.

imarevenant - 2 (mistaken, the shape)

Yes?

[bak42]

Yes?

No.[/redies]

[The Shape]

I am not defending rev so much as pointing out the deficiencies in the arguments against him.

I seem to remember Glotnot doing something very similar between you and BP in star wars =D That is defending, as much as you can defend anyone in these games.

And stuff like, 'I think Rev is scummy because I think he recruited Anti, and I think Anti is scummy because if I were cum I'd want to recruit him.' isn't in anyway a strong enough argument to lynch the guy.

Sorry but then what is? He's said nothing this day phase and here you are doing all the talking for him, yet you're just going round in circles and throwing out masses of ideas whilst dismissing the most obvious and avoiding any real direction.

The Pack recruiter was one of FOUR people and you said you'd target one of these four to try to stop the recruitment.

What makes you think that person would target anyone other than yourself? It's not rubbish, it's perfect logic.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Keep in mind I am quite sure I'd become a PGO for the night and I had plenty of people to look into.

Last night, I couldn't wait any longer and had to put some people at risk...

Never before last night was the situation ripe...

Really? The last few phases never got to you as being ripe enough? About a dozen players left, you being the only investigator around?

[mistaken]

He moved in on his target. A quick flash and the man fell dead.


ok I still think MJ is mafia, and thus on the towns side against the pack.

BUT for arguments sake, lets say mj is telling the truth. then how should we read the above

Supermareo moved in on his target. A quick flash and Supermareo fell dead. (moral of the story don't target a PGO or you'll end up dead)

notice it say target, not victim, or suspect. and PGO's attack those who 'target' them. now of course we can't know SM targed MJ, but why not MJ only seemed to be good for hunting undead. and I did not find MJ on his recently investigate list (granted I did not look hard, but I did look)

and with the rates of recruitment any one not investigated in he last 2 or 3 nights is defiantly up for reinvestigation.

[Astil]

It is now Day Phase 13. You have until 2:00 PM EST November 25th to reach majority. With 7 remaining it is 4 for majority.

imarevenant - 2 (mistaken, the shape)

I'm so tired.

[Antithesis]

I seem to remember Glotnot doing something very similar between you and BP in star wars =D That is defending, as much as you can defend anyone in these games.



Sorry but then what is? He's said nothing this day phase and here you are doing all the talking for him, yet you're just going round in circles and throwing out masses of ideas whilst dismissing the most obvious and avoiding any real direction.

The Pack recruiter was one of FOUR people and you said you'd target one of these four to try to stop the recruitment.

What makes you think that person would target anyone other than yourself? It's not rubbish, it's perfect logic.



Glotnot Defended BP day 2.

I'm advising caution on day 13.

Big difference.


The biggest problem with your second argument is the fact that he didn't recruit me.

You can stand there all day and say, "Well he should have" until your blue in the face, it doesn't prove it.

I am quite aware that Rev hasn't shown up since the heat started, and as I said earlier, I'd probably vote on him, that is, if I didn't have to argue his case to defend myself from this silly argument.






ok I still think MJ is mafia, and thus on the towns side against the pack.

BUT for arguments sake, lets say mj is telling the truth. then how should we read the above

Supermareo moved in on his target. A quick flash and Supermareo fell dead. (moral of the story don't target a PGO or you'll end up dead)

notice it say target, not victim, or suspect. and PGO's attack those who 'target' them. now of course we can't know SM targed MJ, but why not MJ only seemed to be good for hunting undead. and I did not find MJ on his recently investigate list (granted I did not look hard, but I did look)

and with the rates of recruitment any one not investigated in he last 2 or 3 nights is defiantly up for reinvestigation.

Mistaken I thought about that too. Thing is, MJ claimed he had a gun. But the write up doesn't say anything about a gun.

WHen scummy mafia killed, outside of the drak phase.. they always described the weapon. Here the mods hide it.

I do wonder why that is.


As for the new PM. It is basically the same, except Astil describes Rev as looking "content" when I approach him.

I dunno if that means he's cult or not.


I've been thinking, and there is an easy way to test some things and still perhaps keep the town's advantage.

We vote no lynch today.

Tonight Mistaken tries to kill Rev (because I am sure thats the ability Mistaken has been hinting about) MJ investugates me, and I try to block either Bear or you.


If Mistaken kills Rev, then Rev lied.
If MJ says I am scum, then either he or I am lying
If I can block you, you're lying. Or if I block Bear and there is no recruitment. He's lying.

This would "check" on everyone but TBP, who I am guessing would silence anyone who targets him.

[Bear]

I've thought about that as well. While it's plausible, you have to think about the recruitment. Right now, it's 4 to 2 to 1. If we no lynch and the recruiter manages to get a recruit it becomes 3 to 3 to 1. If Rev dies, and he's town, it's lost. If he's scum, it's 3 to 2 to 1. And all of those possibilities don't include a night kill.

[The Shape]

The biggest problem with your second argument is the fact that he didn't recruit me.

You can stand there all day and say, "Well he should have" until your blue in the face, it doesn't prove it.

I am quite aware that Rev hasn't shown up since the heat started, and as I said earlier, I'd probably vote on him, that is, if I didn't have to argue his case to defend myself from this silly argument.

How is that a problem? As far as I'm concerned Rev has to be the recruiter and he's a good player, I'm almost certain he recruited you and the problem with YOUR argument as that it consists solely of "no he didn't."

I've been thinking, and there is an easy way to test some things and still perhaps keep the town's advantage.

We vote no lynch today.

Tonight Mistaken tries to kill Rev (because I am sure thats the ability Mistaken has been hinting about) MJ investugates me, and I try to block either Bear or you.


If Mistaken kills Rev, then Rev lied.
If MJ says I am scum, then either he or I am lying
If I can block you, you're lying. Or if I block Bear and there is no recruitment. He's lying.

This would "check" on everyone but TBP, who I am guessing would silence anyone who targets him.

Presuming you're scum, all it takes is for you to recruit MJ or mistaken, block the other and that entire plan is working to your benefit.

Honestly...a no lynch, day 13, with a cult still posing a threat, all because you're defending your ally while unable to mount a case against anyone else. Now that, my friend, is silly.

[The Shape]

And honestly...you're not advising caution, you're stalling, because by defending Rev like you have you've reached the point of no return, and I sincerely doubt there'll be a way out of it for you once he comes up scum. A no lynch answers nothing, a Rev lynch answers almost everything. It is the simplest solution, and I'm pretty damn sure it's the correct one. Hell I'd almost guarantee it ;)

[Antithesis]

How is that a problem? As far as I'm concerned Rev has to be the recruiter and he's a good player, I'm almost certain he recruited you and the problem with YOUR argument as that it consists solely of "no he didn't."



And if I said, as a counter example, Shape is the recruiter, and his private notes are the recruiting tool, and that you recruited Mistaken with them because you thought his ability was too dangerous to leave out there, all Mistaken can say as way of proof is "no he didn't"


The fact is your argument is contingent upon me being recruited last night. And here I am, as the Super Townie, telling you that didn't happen.

And thus, knowing that premise is false, I challenge your conclusion.

You say this makes me look scummy. I say, that all the money I paid for those logic courses have finally paid off.

And thus, you make the same argument again, over and over. Proving nothing.


Presuming you're scum, all it takes is for you to recruit MJ or mistaken, block the other and that entire plan is working to your benefit.

Honestly...a no lynch, day 13, with a cult still posing a threat, all because you're defending your ally while unable to mount a case against anyone else. Now that, my friend, is silly.

Didn't you say earlier that you didn't think Cultists kept their abilities. Now you are certain Culties keep their abilities based on what? Didn't we kill one cultist, Actarus, based upon the fact that he admitted he couldn't do what he claimed to be able to do before?

Lets just forget that and insist the Cult has to work in manner A to produce results B, thereby arguing that only approach C can save the town. See, now you are bending stuff to fit your hypothesis. Thats what scum do to make a case for mislynches.

And you wonder why I am challenging you?

[Antithesis]

And honestly...you're not advising caution, you're stalling, because by defending Rev like you have you've reached the point of no return, and I sincerely doubt there'll be a way out of it for you once he comes up scum. A no lynch answers nothing, a Rev lynch answers almost everything. It is the simplest solution, and I'm pretty damn sure it's the correct one. Hell I'd almost guarantee it ;)

Me pointing out that there is an unaccounted for killer and 2 Pack out of seven people isn't advising caution?

Hell, even Mistaken realizes that the game is tight.

And you accuse me of what?

On one hand you say I am scum defending my masta, so when i say no, I am town aligned, and I point out the game could hinge on this lynch, which everyone else recognizes as true, you are gonna sit there and say its me making **** up?

Now you are reaching.

I probably would have voted to lynch Rev, since i do have my doubts, but you are making the most god awful arguments.

Whats the problem with taking our time and discussing this rationally?

Is there some reason you want to lynch rev before everyone's logged back in to talk about their enw Pms?

[Antithesis]

You are even going about this lynch wrong.

You say I am the recruit. I say no. We do that dance until the end of time.

meanwhile, if rev is the recruiter, his real reecruit won't vote to lynch him.

So now you gotta convince eitehr TBP or Bear (assuming eitehr one is townie) to vote your way, meanwhiole both are curious as to why you've absolutely ignored MJ, despite all thats swirling around him.

You've become locked in this tunnelvision that, if you are townie, hurts your credibility.

You wanna talk about scum. Seems like several people are suspect of MJ. If you wanna be Townie leader, then discuss that as well.

[Bear]

I see both sides. The reason I'm willing to wait isn't because I might change my mind, it's because I want to see how people act. A lot of peoples styles have changed, I'd say drastically, in the last few phases. Some reckless paranoia, some could have been recruited. It's important to see who's swinging at who.

[mistaken]

I've thought about that as well. While it's plausible, you have to think about the recruitment. Right now, it's 4 to 2 to 1. If we no lynch and the recruiter manages to get a recruit it becomes 3 to 3 to 1. If Rev dies, and he's town, it's lost. If he's scum, it's 3 to 2 to 1. And all of those possibilities don't include a night kill.

hmm, it's already 3 to 3 to 1 a no lynch is us giving the game away,

at best mj isn't mafia and it's 4 to 3 town. an no lynch is our death warrant.

next the alpha one is claiming Bullet proof I would rather not test that with a what I have tonight. as it will not do us much good.

[Antithesis]

hmm, it's already 3 to 3 to 1 a no lynch is us giving the game away,

at best mj isn't mafia and it's 4 to 3 town. an no lynch is our death warrant.

next the alpha one is claiming Bullet proof I would rather not test that with a what I have tonight. as it will not do us much good.

I thought you got the Kill from Glotnot

[Bear]

hmm, it's already 3 to 3 to 1 a no lynch is us giving the game away,

at best mj isn't mafia and it's 4 to 3 town. an no lynch is our death warrant.

next the alpha one is claiming Bullet proof I would rather not test that with a what I have tonight. as it will not do us much good.

I agree.

[mistaken]

I thought you got the Kill from Glotnot

I have what I have, and tomorrow you will know what I have up my sleeve. I don't think it's quite what you think it is.

Shape knows who I searched, and he knows what it will do, but I don't even think he knows exactly what I have. And I certainly don't think trying it on someone who claims to be night kill immune not just bullet proof is the way to go.

[Astil]

It is now Day Phase 13. You have until 2:00 PM EST November 25th to reach majority. With 7 remaining it is 4 for majority.

imarevenant - 2 (mistaken, the shape)

[mistaken]

full pms are out?

does that change anyone's mind that Rev isnt' the way to go?

or any new information.

(for the record and you can find my previous post, I'm not rushing because I'm scum but because after Wednesday i won't have internet reliably if at all for a week.)

by my math that gives me maybe 1 more night and day before things get dicey.

[Astil]

Everyone should have there full PM.

Snet them out around 10 EST but never got to posting in the thread that I did.

[Bear]

full pms are out?

does that change anyone's mind that Rev isnt' the way to go?

or any new information.

(for the record and you can find my previous post, I'm not rushing because I'm scum but because after Wednesday i won't have internet reliably if at all for a week.)

by my math that gives me maybe 1 more night and day before things get dicey.

After last night, I pretty much knew where I'd have to vote. It's like what happened with Act and how his info was determining if we thought there were any pack left. We lynched him and it let us move forward. In my head, I decided that by noon today, I'd vote.

This is the solution.

Vote: Imareverent

[The Shape]

Me pointing out that there is an unaccounted for killer and 2 Pack out of seven people isn't advising caution?

Me logically deducing who those people are and then being met by an argument which keeps going round circles, isn't a situation in which caution applies.

I'm not trying to rush this lynch (and the only PM that allegedly mattered was yours), I'm just trying to make sure that it does indeed go through.

So now you gotta convince eitehr TBP or Bear (assuming eitehr one is townie) to vote your way, meanwhiole both are curious as to why you've absolutely ignored MJ, despite all thats swirling around him.

Haven't ignored him, I've said he's the most likely mafia. That being based on the assumption that Arrows was the don, due to the investigation mess. However, it was MJ's result which led to this mess, so I can't be sure. If Arrows wasn't the don then the don could be anybody.

[The Shape]

Shape knows who I searched, and he knows what it will do, but I don't even think he knows exactly what I have. And I certainly don't think trying it on someone who claims to be night kill immune not just bullet proof is the way to go.

Now you have me interested =D

Though I'd assume the premise is the same, and if this day goes as expected the target will be obvious.

[mistaken]

Now you have me interested =D

Though I'd assume the premise is the same, and if this day goes as expected the target will be obvious.

:confused:

[mistaken]

I will do my home work before using it. but things are anything but obvious to me at this point and I am putting my faith in my numbers more than anything else at this point

[Astil]

It is now Day Phase 13. You have until 2:00 PM EST November 25th to reach majority. With 7 remaining it is 4 for majority.

imarevenant - 3 (mistaken, the shape, bear)

[Destiny]

It is now Day Phase 13. You have until 2:00 PM EST November 25th to reach majority. With 7 remaining it is 4 for majority.

imarevenant - 3 (mistaken, the shape, bear)

[The Shape]

:confused:

You saying you don't expect me to know what you have strikes me as curious, but that doesn't change what I think about it's usage. Hopefully the end of the day will make that clear.

[The Shape]

In fact I just had another idea, that may complicate things. Can be discussed later on, as it's not relevant now.

[Antithesis]

Vote Imarevenant

lets see whats what.

I am ready to start playing WOTLK anyway.

[Antithesis]

Where'd ya go Shape?


According to your theory I just hammered the lynch on the guy who recruited me.

Shouldn't you be here for the big announcement?

[The Shape]

Where'd ya go Shape?


According to your theory I just hammered the lynch on the guy who recruited me.

Shouldn't you be here for the big announcement?

I'm still here.

And my theory still stands.

[Antithesis]

So if rev turns up town, I am scum and if Rev truns up scum I am scum


Pretty flexable theory ya got there.

[mistaken]

You saying you don't expect me to know what you have strikes me as curious, but that doesn't change what I think about it's usage. Hopefully the end of the day will make that clear.

You know what I have, you just don't realize how creative Astil is being. :D

my confusion is over who the obvious choice is.

[Antithesis]

I really wish more veterans had made it to the end, then this wouldn't have happened like it did.

[mistaken]

So if rev turns up town, I am scum and if Rev truns up scum I am scum


Pretty flexable theory ya got there.

If he comes up town, you were the one argueing for his release.

I think I am the one who needs to be most closely analyzed. if he comes up town. but if he does, I will be so completely lost, I am not sure I'll be any help at all tonight.

[The Shape]

So if rev turns up town, I am scum and if Rev truns up scum I am scum


Pretty flexable theory ya got there.

If he turned up town I'd have to rethink things. But I'm really quite sure that's not the case. If he turns up scum, so are you.

You know what I have, you just don't realize how creative Astil is being. :D

my confusion is over who the obvious choice is.

Once the lynch is official we can think about it. It's not as clear cut as I thought.

[The Shape]

If he comes up town, you were the one argueing for his release.

I think I am the one who needs to be most closely analyzed. if he comes up town. but if he does, I will be so completely lost, I am not sure I'll be any help at all tonight.

Hmm. I suppose it's viable that you were recruited, in which case I'd go for MJD as the recruiter. We'll see.

[mistaken]

I really wish more veterans had made it to the end, then this wouldn't have happened like it did.

I kind of agree. I think I am alive because I'm being used.

I definitely would have preferred an exit two nights ago, and sat back and learned more by watching.

[mistaken]

Hmm. I suppose it's viable that you were recruited, in which case I'd go for MJD as the recruiter. We'll see.

Unless the recruits don't get told, I was not recruited...but as with everything what else would you expect me to say.

the fact arrows rolls over is why is so firmly believe there is another mafia member. but as a vote manip maybe he was counting on not needing another person to pull off an upset victory.

[Astil]

Day Phase 13

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4269/lakesidegy3.jpg

They moved quick, knowing the man that needed to hang. Sure, he was Alpha (BABY YEAH!) but was he Lakeside.

As he swung, they looked on, intrigued by what they found.

imarevenant is dead. He was Pack Aligned

It is now Night Phase 13. You have until 2:00 PM EST November 25th to get all role PM to Astil and D_w_w.

Last vote count for Day Phase 13.

imarevenant - 3 (mistaken, the shape, bear, Antithesis)

[mistaken]

and if mj's the recruiter who shot mareo?

[Antithesis]

If he turned up town I'd have to rethink things. But I'm really quite sure that's not the case. If he turns up scum, so are you.



.

Dude, if he turns up town, you will never.. trust me.. EVER, hear the end of it.

Think of SW 1 when the Jedi helped lynch the newbie and The Sith took over.

thats really the situation you put the town into. Even if rev does come up Pack aligned, he might not be the recruiter. So even with this kill, we won't learn anything until next day phase.

[mistaken]

I Am Town!!!!!!

[Antithesis]

and if mj's the recruiter who shot mareo?

Who indeed?

[Antithesis]

Dude, if he turns up town, you will never.. trust me.. EVER, hear the end of it.

Think of SW 1 when the Jedi helped lynch the newbie and The Sith took over.

thats really the situation you put the town into. Even if rev does come up Pack aligned, he might not be the recruiter. So even with this kill, we won't learn anything until next day phase.

Well looks like we lynched some scum. :)

I am gonna assume I can't hire scum, meaning my roleblock may be next to useless. But I can still prove I have the ability tonight.

[Antithesis]

Who indeed?

Correction.. "flashed" Mareo

The write up didn't say "shot"

[The Shape]

Dude, if he turns up town, you will never.. trust me.. EVER, hear the end of it.

Think of SW 1 when the Jedi helped lynch the newbie and The Sith took over.

thats really the situation you put the town into. Even if rev does come up Pack aligned, he might not be the recruiter. So even with this kill, we won't learn anything until next day phase.

Occam's Razor baby!

Who in their right mind would have recruited him last night?

You've been back-pedalling since the first couple of hours of this phase, and eventually went for the hammer.

The only question is now - can you recruit tonight. This is rather important.

[The Shape]

Correction.. "flashed" Mareo

The write up didn't say "shot"

Paranoid Torch Owner?

[mistaken]

mj - if there still is a mafia

rev, bear?, anti

mistaken, shape, TBP

did bear kill mareo "a flash" kinda like the flash that was used to recruit him?

[Antithesis]

Occam's Razor baby!

Who in their right mind would have recruited him last night?

You've been back-pedalling since the first couple of hours of this phase, and eventually went for the hammer.

The only question is now - can you recruit tonight. This is rather important.

You are dense enough to attract metal.

There's been at least a one day's pause between the recruiter dying and a new recruiter being made.

Tonight I will hire MJ Mistaken or Bear(your choice) and they'll eitehr confirm that I have my townie ability or lie, in which case you can finally mislynch a townie and hand this game to the scum like you've been wanting to do.


What kind of dip**** argues "your defending rev because he recruited you" and then turns around and with a straight face says, "you lynched Rev because he recruited you".

I have explained.. half a dozen times. That I defended Rev because I assumed that I could block scum or that Astil would hint if I didn't.

I've always said I was suspicious of Rev, for reasons I enumerated which were, imo, better than yours.

And yet here ya go, Anti must be scum.. because, uhh, he lynched his scum buddy.

yeah

thats makes a metric **** ton of sense.

[mistaken]

I have no intention of targeting the PBO, but who can i target?


anti protected
bear bullet proof
TBP, PGO i assume i can't target with out eating brick
shape, to fast to target
mj - targetable
mistaken - well I'm not targeting myself.

[Antithesis]

Paranoid Torch Owner?

Could be TBP.. maybe he targeted her and she "flashed" him

TEEHEEHEE

[Antithesis]

I have no intention of targeting the PBO, but who can i target?


anti protected
bear bullet proof
TBP, PGO i assume i can't target with out eating brick
shape, to fast to target
mj - targetable
mistaken - well I'm not targeting myself.

Could test bear's claim. If what you have is a kill.

[The Shape]

You are dense enough to attract metal.

There's been at least a one day's pause between the recruiter dying and a new recruiter being made.

Tonight I will hire MJ Mistaken or Bear(your choice) and they'll eitehr confirm that I have my townie ability or lie, in which case you can finally mislynch a townie and hand this game to the scum like you've been wanting to do.


What kind of dip**** argues "your defending rev because he recruited you" and then turns around and with a straight face says, "you lynched Rev because he recruited you".

I have explained.. half a dozen times. That I defended Rev because I assumed that I could block scum or that Astil would hint if I didn't.

I've always said I was suspicious of Rev, for reasons I enumerated which were, imo, better than yours.

And yet here ya go, Anti must be scum.. because, uhh, he lynched his scum buddy.

yeah

thats makes a metric **** ton of sense.


Really, you had no choice.

[Antithesis]

Really, you had no choice.

Translated, that emans, you tried to make an argument where I would seem scummy regardless of what i do.

Thats ok though You lynch me tomorrow my promises still stands. Never.. Ever hear the end of it.

[The Shape]

Right let's think about this. Pack began with two, OK and SF I believe. What was the info SF came out with earlier on, and who did it incriminate?

Charting pack's known actions (Act said at the start they could recruit or kill...hmm...wonder if they could do either of those AND snatch someone)

Max Four Members, Max Three captive

Night 1 - Lostrelms snatched
Night 2 - Nothing clear
Night 3 - Arrows snatched
Night 4 - A recruit via TV
Night 5 - LR tried to escape and got killed; OK killed by bulldozer. Another mention of recruitment but in past tense.
Night 6 - Shadowed killed; Arrows and Comrade freed
Night 7 - trypio recruits someone
Night 8 - BP killed
Night 9 - Nothing clear
Night 10 - Act recruits Rev
Day 11 - Act lynched
Night 11 - Nothing
Night 12 - Rev recruits but is allegedly blocked by Anti

Need to work out when the recruits occurred, and who was when.

But right now I'm thinking recruiter death means no recruit the next night.

[The Shape]

I have no intention of targeting the PBO, but who can i target?


anti protected
bear bullet proof
TBP, PGO i assume i can't target with out eating brick
shape, to fast to target
mj - targetable
mistaken - well I'm not targeting myself.

Test Anti. If he's still town, he lives and his name is all but cleared, and I back down. If he's Pack, which I'm all but certain is the case, he dies before he can get another recruit and we finish things off the next day.

[The Shape]

Translated, that emans, you tried to make an argument where I would seem scummy regardless of what i do.

Your argument did that by itself ;)

[mistaken]

Test Anti. If he's still town, he lives and his name is all but cleared, and I back down. If he's Pack, which I'm all but certain is the case, he dies before he can get another recruit and we finish things off the next day.

erm, but all Anti has to do Is hire a town member and the poor person will eat lead.

[Antithesis]

Right let's think about this. Pack began with two, OK and SF I believe. What was the info SF came out with earlier on, and who did it incriminate?

Charting pack's known actions (Act said at the start they could recruit or kill...hmm...wonder if they could do either of those AND snatch someone)

Max Four Members, Max Three captive

Night 1 - Lostrelms snatched
Night 2 - Nothing clear
Night 3 - Arrows snatched
Night 4 - A recruit via TV
Night 5 - LR tried to escape and got killed; OK killed by bulldozer. Another mention of recruitment but in past tense.
Night 6 - Shadowed killed; Arrows and Comrade freed
Night 7 - trypio recruits someone
Night 8 - BP killed
Night 9 - Nothing clear
Night 10 - Act recruits Rev
Day 11 - Act lynched
Night 11 - Nothing
Night 12 - Rev recruits but is allegedly blocked by Anti

Need to work out when the recruits occurred, and who was when.

But right now I'm thinking recruiter death means no recruit the next night.

Well if rev is the recruiter clearly me hiring him didn't block him.

Try this.

Night 10 Act recruits MJ
Day 11 Act gets Lynched.

BTW the vote on Actarus was

It is now Day Phase 11. You have until noon EST Thursday November 20th to achieve majority. With 11 remaining it is 6 for majority.

Arrows - 1 (mjdgoldeneye)

Actarus - 6 (Tha Black Phenom, mistaken, The Shape, Arrows, supermareo, iMac)

Day Phase is Over.


But don't let that stop you from Assuming MJ didn't get recruited.

Night 11 Nothing
Day 12. Arrows Lynched
Night 12. MJ recruits Rev. Makes warning during the night about doing something, perhaps so i don't block him (MJ)

Logs on later with funny story about being a PGO

[Antithesis]

erm, but all Anti has to do Is hire a town member and the poor person will eat lead.

I'll hire Bear

If Bear dies defending me then we know he lied.. Right?

[mistaken]

Your argument did that by itself ;)

Rev was sold down the river. If you are pack you had no choice but to hammer him before it could come back on you

If your town, you had to see that the length of time it was taking to hammer him had to smell like scum.

[mistaken]

I find it hysterical that the cap votes are the two people I think are pack. and Rev never showed back up to play defense while you two ran block.

[The Shape]

erm, but all Anti has to do Is hire a town member and the poor person will eat lead.

If he can still hire people, then he can just hire you. That way we have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Besides, he's not town nor is he still hiring.

But don't let that stop you from Assuming MJ didn't get recruited.

Night 11 Nothing
Day 12. Arrows Lynched
Night 12. MJ recruits Rev. Makes warning during the night about doing something, perhaps so i don't block him (MJ)

Logs on later with funny story about being a PGO

Viable, doesn't explain the kill though. Nor why MJ helped push for Rev's lynch and you did your best to stop it.

Can you please re-post the list of who you've bought and when?

[mistaken]

I'll hire Bear

If Bear dies defending me then we know he lied.. Right?

proves nothing. the members of the pack keep saying they keep their night time abilities after being recruited.

have we proven/disproven that yet?

[Astil]

Last vote count for Day Phase 13.

imarevenant - 4 (mistaken, the shape, bear, Antithesis)

[mistaken]

duty calls will return soon enough.

[The Shape]

Well if rev is the recruiter clearly me hiring him didn't block him.

Try this.

Night 10 Act recruits MJ
Day 11 Act gets Lynched.

BTW the vote on Actarus was



But don't let that stop you from Assuming MJ didn't get recruited.

Night 11 Nothing
Day 12. Arrows Lynched
Night 12. MJ recruits Rev. Makes warning during the night about doing something, perhaps so i don't block him (MJ)

Logs on later with funny story about being a PGO


And I lol at the use of voting record when Rev's name aint there either.

[Antithesis]

Rev was sold down the river. If you are pack you had no choice but to hammer him before it could come back on you

If your town, you had to see that the length of time it was taking to hammer him had to smell like scum.

It only seemed to be scummy because of the way Shape presented it. which is why I have been calling him dirty names ever since. Shape stretches things to fit his hypothesis.

Now above I gave what is at least, an equally reasonable hypothesis concerning MJ, yet there's shape, calling me Scum all along.

The guys says he has an eye on MJ.

When's he bothered to ask MJ anything about last night?

[The Shape]

proves nothing. the members of the pack keep saying they keep their night time abilities after being recruited.

have we proven/disproven that yet?

Think they do. Eg.) hypnosis. But when they become recruiters they lose them, like anti has.

[The Shape]

The guys says he has an eye on MJ.

When's he bothered to ask MJ anything about last night?

No real point. And why the hell would anyone recruit rev last night?

[Antithesis]

And I lol at the use of voting record when Rev's name aint there either.

And.

need to open your eyes. I'll hire bear tonight and he'll eitehr defend me or I'll die as a townie.

If that happens, and once I get tired of rubbing your face in it from beyond the grave. Maybe you'll be open to considering different options.

It just good and truly ****ing sucks to have lead to town on a good course for so long but have to now dance to your retarded bull****. All because you made a fallacious argument and the newbies are still too inexperienced to see it.

Oh well, maybe lakeside can still eek out a win tonight regardless.

[Antithesis]

No real point. And why the hell would anyone recruit rev last night?

Because , maybe like you, it came as a surprise to them that I would even bother to try to block him.

[The Shape]

And.

need to open your eyes. I'll hire bear tonight and he'll eitehr defend me or I'll die as a townie.

If that happens, and once I get tired of rubbing your face in it from beyond the grave. Maybe you'll be open to considering different options.

It just good and truly ****ing sucks to have lead to town on a good course for so long but have to now dance to your retarded bull****. All because you made a fallacious argument and the newbies are still too inexperienced to see it.

Oh well, maybe lakeside can still eek out a win tonight regardless.

Just like you were going to rub it in my face when Rev came up town? :rolleyes:

And what you mean is that it sucks to have led the town then been recruited against your will. I see how you feel, but insulting logic which is working perfectly so far isn't the way to go.

Because , maybe like you, it came as a surprise to them that I would even bother to try to block him.

No, because you made clear that you would block one on a list of 4, of which he was one. Why recruit the guy who's been scrutinised for days when there's a confirmed townie knocking on your door?

[Antithesis]

Have MJ investigate me too.

That way.. if one of em lies.. bear, Mistaken, or MJ, you'll know it

Once I get lynched or I die during the night and it says lakeside aligned by my name, at least you'll have it narrowed down to three suspects and can maybe piece together who the liar is.

Thats the best I can do ya now.

[The Shape]

So yeah, I'm off for a while. Anti you sure are persistent but just like yesterday you're arguing against the most obvious solution and with part 1 having being right, I'd bet anything part 2 is as well.

You lied to try to keep the heat off Rev, it was proven that you lied, and now you are in trouble.

If you survive a kill tonight then ok, we'll look elsewhere. But like I said, everything to gain and nothing to lose. You were by far the most logical target for recruitment, Rev is a good player, so he went for it. It didn't work out.

[Antithesis]

And what you mean is that it sucks to have led the town then been recruited against your will. I see how you feel, but insulting logic which is working perfectly so far isn't the way to go.


ARGG what *O%#$(P*$ logic?

The logic that says I think X did Y ergo X did Y.

Thats not logic.

Thats wishful thinking.

Anyway again, so there are no screw ups.

I'll Hire bear. Mistaken can target Me
MJ can investigate me.

If I die, then Bear did not stay to protect me (ergo he's scum)
If Bear dies, he is lying about being Bullet proof (ergo he's scum)
If I live, and MJ tries to say my alignment has changed, which would be a lie, Bear can confirm that i hired him and Mistaken can confirm that bear defended me.


Now, will that work for you?

[The Shape]

Have MJ investigate me too.

That way.. if one of em lies.. bear, Mistaken, or MJ, you'll know it

Once I get lynched or I die during the night and it says lakeside aligned by my name, at least you'll have it narrowed down to three suspects and can maybe piece together who the liar is.

Thats the best I can do ya now.

You'd probably show as non-town/therefore town, being the last one standing. Just like the day with the no lynch stuff you're preaching apathy, when what we need is the opposite.

[Antithesis]

You lied to try to keep the heat off Rev, it was proven that you lied, and now you are in trouble.


Where did I lie?

Show me where?

You gonna call someone a liar in Mafia you need to back it up.

[Antithesis]

You'd probably show as non-town/therefore town, being the last one standing. Just like the day with the no lynch stuff you're preaching apathy, when what we need is the opposite.

Did Arrows show up as Town.

Oh wait, now you are saying Arrows wasn't the last mafia guy.. right?

Did grunt show up as Town.. of wait, Grunt wasn't the last Undead guy.

You even think this through before you type it?

[The Shape]

Where did I lie?

Show me where?

You gonna call someone a liar in Mafia you need to back it up.

Said you'd blocked him and that he didn't go away. Clearly not the case.

Well literally, it probably was the case, as he recruited you, but I hope you're aware that you sound like desperate scum searching for holes in the valid case against you, and not town fighting their own corner because they know they're right.

Hell, you sound like Arrows...

[Antithesis]

Said you'd blocked him and that he didn't go away. Clearly not the case.

Well literally, it probably was the case, as he recruited you, but I hope you're aware that you sound like desperate scum searching for holes in the valid case against you, and not town fighting their own corner because they know they're right.

Hell, you sound like Arrows...

And how do you know he did go somewhere. Because you think he's the recruiter he must be the recruiter.

That argument sounds familiar.

Lets see.

I think X is Y ergo X must be Y

More wishful thinking again.

When there is proof that Rev was the recruiter, then you can make that argument. Except even then you can't.

Because as I have said 53 million times already I hired Arrows. NO ONE DISPUTES That.

Arrows was not blocked.


It is entirely possible that I cannot roleblock scum

You all, and even myself, have just assumed that I can.

Well, maybe I can't. Go ask Astil. Best i can tell you now is that it doesn't look like it.

[Antithesis]

BTW what i suggested, if I live, would prove that Mistaken is still a grave robber and that bear is bulletproof. And that I still hire people.

Thats 3 from the suspect list.

Maybe then you can look at MJ.

[The Shape]

Did Arrows show up as Town.

Oh wait, now you are saying Arrows wasn't the last mafia guy.. right?

Did grunt show up as Town.. of wait, Grunt wasn't the last Undead guy.

You even think this through before you type it?

Arrows DID show up as non town. To archer earlier on and supposedly MJ later. hence me thinking arrows was either the Don, or aligned with MJ. Because NOTHING ELSE MAKES SENSE. Same reason Rev = recruiter, and you = recruit.

And how do you know he did go somewhere. Because you think he's the recruiter he must be the recruiter.

That argument sounds familiar.

Lets see.

I think X is Y ergo X must be Y

More wishful thinking again.

When there is proof that Rev was the recruiter, then you can make that argument. Except even then you can't.

Because as I have said 53 million times already I hired Arrows. NO ONE DISPUTES That.

Arrows was not blocked.


It is entirely possible that I cannot roleblock scum

You all, and even myself, have just assumed that I can.

Well, maybe I can't. Go ask Astil. Best i can tell you now is that it doesn't look like it.

Arrows disappeared though. You said Rev looked content and stayed there all night. Then made a U-turn.

And here, X does = Y.

BTW what i suggested, if I live, would prove that Mistaken is still a grave robber and that bear is bulletproof. And that I still hire people.

Thats 3 from the suspect list.

Maybe then you can look at MJ.

I don't even know why we're arguing. If you are town you have nothing to fear from mistaken coming to kill you.

[Antithesis]

Arrows DID show up as non town. To archer earlier on and supposedly MJ later. hence me thinking arrows was either the Don, or aligned with MJ. Because NOTHING ELSE MAKES SENSE. Same reason Rev = recruiter, and you = recruit.



I was talking about, if I die or get lynched.

Once it shows up I am lakeside aligned, I am gonna mock you unmercifully. :D

You are talking about investigations and assuming MJ would tell the truth.

Uh.. WHy?

Do you know for 100% certain MJ is still town?

No.

Then stop assuming what **** MJ might say.

My word on this.

If MJ is town and he investigates me, he'll tell you I am town aligned.

If MJ is scum, he may try to lie.

But then you've got bear and Mistaken confirming the hiring and the proetction.

So then you get to have the fun of actually considering the possibility that MJ might be scummy.

:gasps: It's a shock for you, I know. But you may just have to adjust.

[The Shape]

So then you get to have the fun of actually considering the possibility that MJ might be scummy.

The hell are you talking about? I've been saying that if there's mafia left it's him for two days...

[Antithesis]

I don't even know why we're arguing. If you are town you have nothing to fear from mistaken coming to kill you.


Well I fear that if Bear is scum, Mistaken will kill me by mistake.

You don't seem to realize this, but your ****ty arguments have put me in a position where I have to risk my life to proove what I already know.

To you, obviously, thats nothing.

To me its a ****ing travesty that you are being so god damned hard headed about this.

And I can't figure out if you are being obtuse on purpose (i.e. you are scum) or if this just worked out this way because you are too damn obstinant and are playing as a detriment to the town.

I am going with the assumption that you are, in fact, town aligned. Thus if i die, the teasing.. it will be.. unrelenting. :D

So maybe next time you will stop making these silly ass mistakes.

If you are scum however, I'll say good play.

And then kill you the first chance I get in the future. :D

[The Shape]

So yeah, I'm off. If Anti's town, he'll survive and I'll begrudgingly accept as much, with the benefit of mistaken and Bear being cleared in the process (that's a long chain of events, aha).

If he's scum, the game's in the bag. No point bickering any more tonight, because the matter at hand is in fact a straightforward one.

[Antithesis]

The hell are you talking about? I've been saying that if there's mafia left it's him for two days...

So why did you argue like MJ's investigations matter?

make up your mind.

Eitehr MJ is town and will not lie about his result on me, or he's scum, and therefore, may try to lie.

And that isn't even for you so much as its for Mistaken and the otehrs. I only addressed it to you ebcause you're the "townie leader" now.

[Antithesis]

So yeah, I'm off. If Anti's town, he'll survive and I'll begrudgingly accept as much, with the benefit of mistaken and Bear being cleared in the process (that's a long chain of events, aha).

If he's scum, the game's in the bag. No point bickering any more tonight, because the matter at hand is in fact a straightforward one.

Don't leave yet.. I am not done yelling! :D

[Antithesis]

I will say, no matter what, this game won't end like Eville. Which seemed to just drag its way out.

Nope this one's got fireworks all the way through.

[mjdgoldeneye]

You guys do realize I have school from the moment I wake up until 3 PM, right?

I couldn't vote on Act because I wasn't home. I couldn't vote on Rev because I wasn't home.

If you guys want to use crap like that for a reason why I'm scum, you're going to have to give me the freakin' opportunity to participate...

I was all for lynching Rev, but I wasn't around... period...

What am I supposed to do tonight, now?

[Antithesis]

You guys do realize I have school from the moment I wake up until 3 PM, right?

I couldn't vote on Act because I wasn't home. I couldn't vote on Rev because I wasn't home.

If you guys want to use crap like that for a reason why I'm scum, you're going to have to give me the freakin' opportunity to participate...

I was all for lynching Rev, but I wasn't around... period...

What am I supposed to do tonight, now?

You can investigate me and eliminate me as a suspect.

That or, try investigating Shape.

Because if you are town, and bear protects me and mistaken tries to kill me, that leaves Shape or TBP.

[mjdgoldeneye]

Well, from a neutral standpoint, wouldn't it be possible for me to claim I got a scum result and be telling the truth?

Obviously, if you're town, you'd know I was lying (but this scenario is impossible when you consider I'm town and have no reason to lie). However, if you're scum, logically I'd get a scum result...?

Regardless, I don't see any other option. I don't want to target Shape because I don't think I could get a trustworthy result in any case...

[mjdgoldeneye]

I'd also like to point out that tonight there should be a kill aside from mistaken's attempt, right? What about a recruitment?

[Antithesis]

I'd also like to point out that tonight there should be a kill aside from mistaken's attempt, right? What about a recruitment?

According to SHape Rev was the recruiter.

When the recruiter dies it takes a phase before the next recruiter is made.

If Rev was the recruiter then there will be no recruitment.

If he wasn't, then there will be a recruitment.

Should there be a kill?

I dunno. If the killer is townie or wants to work with the town. target Shape. he's supposedly is untargetable. So if you kill, he lied anyway and thus is probably scum. If he is untargetable well, you arent killing anyone.

If the killer is scum they gotta realize they can't win with the pack

[mjdgoldeneye]

I'd like to say right now that the existence or absence of certain elements tonight will be key.

[Bear]

ALPHA MALE=LEADER OF THE PACK. Shenanigans.

Anti, if you are killed by Mistaken tonight, it will be because you've lost your power. I have always protected you faithfully and even stopped you from being silenced. I wanted to think you were genuinely trying to do Rev a solid, but now I believe it's because you've turned. Your defense of him reminded me of when Arrows defended Shape in Gotham. I didn't want to blurt that because it'd be kinda mean, but now I feel more sure of who's who. Shape is too blunt and unreasonable, but he's very likely right.

(Please don't take offense as I'd like to continue playing with you and everyone and enjoy the experience, no?)

[Antithesis]

ALPHA MALE=LEADER OF THE PACK. Shenanigans.

Anti, if you are killed by Mistaken tonight, it will be because you've lost your power. I have always protected you faithfully and even stopped you from being silenced. I wanted to think you were genuinely trying to do Rev a solid, but now I believe it's because you've turned. Your defense of him reminded me of when Arrows defended Shape in Gotham. I didn't want to blurt that because it'd be kinda mean, but now I feel more sure of who's who. Shape is too blunt and unreasonable, but he's very likely right.

(Please don't take offense as I'd like to continue playing with you and everyone and enjoy the experience, no?)

Well it'll be an easy way to find out.

Either I hire you and you defend me

or you don't defend me and I die with the lakeside alignment by my name, meaning folks are gonna be looking at you awfully hard.

So, for my sake, I hope you are town aligned.

[mjdgoldeneye]

There are so many variables tonight that I half-expect something completely unexpected to happen...

Is that even mathematically possibly for me to do? :p

[Comradebot]

There are so many variables tonight that I half-expect something completely unexpected to happen...

Is that even mathematically possibly for me to do? :p

How can you half-expect something?

[mistaken]

You guys do realize I have school from the moment I wake up until 3 PM, right?

I couldn't vote on Act because I wasn't home. I couldn't vote on Rev because I wasn't home.

If you guys want to use crap like that for a reason why I'm scum, you're going to have to give me the freakin' opportunity to participate...

I was all for lynching Rev, but I wasn't around... period...

What am I supposed to do tonight, now?

dude I think you are the mafia investigtor, and now don and gun man with arrows dead.

but that doesn't really matter as long as you target bear tonight. or shape or anyone but me.

but then bear may also have the ability to kill me.

I just am so lost on what direction to go. If anti doesn't loose his power, and grabs me then I could be blocked.

erg. I hope we get the 7 responses in quickly, the suspence is killing me.

[mjdgoldeneye]

Mistaken, you do know that I can't be the mafia investigator, right?

I've spent most of the game trying to get Arrows lynched, even when it was unpopular. I also helped lynch other mafia.

Stop saying I'm mafia because I take that as an insult. Nothing that I've done all game has been helpful for the mafia at all.

If you think I'm mafia, you think I'm an idiot. Period.

[mistaken]

Mistaken, you do know that I can't be the mafia investigator, right?

I've spent most of the game trying to get Arrows lynched, even when it was unpopular. I also helped lynch other mafia.

Stop saying I'm mafia because I take that as an insult. Nothing that I've done all game has been helpful for the mafia at all.

If you think I'm mafia, you think I'm an idiot. Period.

:D well if your not mafia then you might be pack, but that makes the math get really scetchy. and at this point if assume your mafia and your not, you have to be town.

don't take offense. it's a game. and if there is no mafia left then that's great. yeah your town. but I am not taking anything for granted. and if there is a mafia left, it's you.

and pushing for arrows all game is great defense for a mafia member. he gets to this point can point at his record and say hey I voted for are most prominent member all game, but never got lynched.

I've been going for arrows most of the game. but Unless your shape I don't expect you to trust me fully either.

as in your equation I've got to be filling in a similar role.

[mjdgoldeneye]

I am quite sure there's a non-Pack killer left and I'm Lakeside.

Find a scenario where that works.

It's not my fault you can't work it out...

[mistaken]

I am quite sure there's a non-Pack killer left and I'm Lakeside.

Find a scenario where that works.

It's not my fault you can't work it out...

any one else subscribe to there being a none pack or mafia aligned killer out there. because that's not mj.

[mjdgoldeneye]

any one else subscribe to there being a none pack or mafia aligned killer out there. because that's not mj.

I didn't say a non-mafia aligned killer... (Is that what you're saying? I can't understand that post, really...)

I thought we have all agreed it's down to one Pack recruit or recruiter and one Mafia killer, correct? Did I miss something?

[The Shape]

I just am so lost on what direction to go. If anti doesn't loose his power, and grabs me then I could be blocked.


Anti is a no lose situation in theory because if he's town he can't be killed. However there's the possibility that he's Pack and still has his ability until tomorrow and so would survive (seems likely given how sure he is of tonight), so maybe MJD would be a better option and we can think about Anti again tomorrow; whoever is Pack can't recruit tonight, whereas I stand by MJ being the last mafia member.

[Antithesis]

Mistaken, you do know that I can't be the mafia investigator, right?

I've spent most of the game trying to get Arrows lynched, even when it was unpopular. I also helped lynch other mafia.

Stop saying I'm mafia because I take that as an insult. Nothing that I've done all game has been helpful for the mafia at all.

If you think I'm mafia, you think I'm an idiot. Period.

Lynching Arrows was never unpopular. Just every day this game there has been someone that was either found to be scum, did something scummy, or was framed as being scum (Rock 13)

[Destiny]

It is now Night Phase 13. You have until 2:00 PM EST November 25th to get all role PMs to Astil and D_w_w.

[mjdgoldeneye]

What the ****, really?

HOW am I the last mafia member? How does that fit?

I spent phase after phase after phase going after Arrows... How the hell do you justify that?

I was the sixth vote on cyberkitten...

I've never defended anyone who came up mafia...

Where do you see me fitting into being mafia?

Do you think I'm mentally challenged?

I wouldn't be bothered at all if you thought I was Pack. That makes sense. Me being mafia, however, is simply impossible barring me being the worst mafia player ever.

[mjdgoldeneye]

Also, I immediately went after Anti on DAY TWO!!! I got a town result for a Pack member and made it a point to say so!!!

Why in the ****ing hell would I do something like that unless I had reason to believe he was scum and was an insane investigator?

The only reason why any of you would even suggest this stuff is if you're scum or completely disregard me having any ability to think or reason...

If Anti was lynched, I'd be lynched immediately afterword. Furthermore, wouldn't it make more sense to point out that Derek was scum even if I was mafia?

Please, tell me how this fits ANYWHERE!

[Antithesis]

i don'ts ee why Mistaken doesn't target me.

Seriously.

Sure, he's playing up the newbie card, but he could have been recruited last night. Once I am exonerated Mistaken needs to at least be in a position where he can say he did X on night Y.

Because trust me, your word alone aint enough. Take me for example.

And finally it would test Bear.

So Mistaken, you get to test two people at once, and possibly prove yourelf townor act all confused and not do a thing.

Choice seems obvious to me.

[mjdgoldeneye]

All I have to say is that if I somehow die tonight, I have no one that I am particularly suspicious of because this game is so crazy that I can't be sure of anyone.

Also, I have no tricks left in my bag and that all the information I have provided thus far is completely accurate as far as I know.

[mistaken]

mj my math

I am town (sorry I know this is an assumption you can't make but it is one i can make)


mistaken - town
shape - to fast to be recruited, has proven what hes' done each night with the notes. town
TBP - town, you can't target her, and the swap proves she doesn't target anyone


rev & anti - pack
anti hired rev
rev recruited anti

we have one more mafia maybe and one more pack

MJ - investigated arrows so is not pack

bear must be pack (sorry bear :( )

MJ that leaves you as the only one that can be mafia

now you don't have to be mafia or the killer. bear was free to do both. but I hate to think that the pack can recruit and kill at the same time.

that is the math my theory is based on. now to you I have to be a suspect, and your math will come out differently.

but the fact that my math proved REV, gives me more confidence.

[Antithesis]

mj my math

I am town (sorry I know this is an assumption you can't make but it is one i can make)


mistaken - town
shape - to fast to be recruited, has proven what hes' done each night with the notes. town
TBP - town, you can't target her, and the swap proves she doesn't target anyone


rev & anti - pack
anti hired rev
rev recruited anti

we have one more mafia maybe and one more pack

MJ - investigated arrows so is not pack

bear must be pack (sorry bear :( )

MJ that leaves you as the only one that can be mafia

now you don't have to be mafia or the killer. bear was free to do both. but I hate to think that the pack can recruit and kill at the same time.

that is the math my theory is based on. now to you I have to be a suspect, and your math will come out differently.

but the fact that my math proved REV, gives me more confidence.



Well only problem I can tell you is, I am not in the Pack. But if you don't believe me, by all means, try to kill me tonight. If you do manage it, then you'll know who the pack member is (psst.. its the guy that wouldn't protect me)

[mistaken]

Well only problem I can tell you is, I am not in the Pack. But if you don't believe me, by all means, try to kill me tonight. If you do manage it, then you'll know who the pack member is (psst.. its the guy that wouldn't protect me)

targeting you would be a waste of time, you have claimed that pack keep their abilities. and you would simply pull mj in front of you and then claim I targeted mj.

atleast if I target some one like bear, you pack members cant' twist it on me.

[mistaken]

Hey TBP

as an untouchable, or atleast seems that way your are being to quiet. come on out with your theories!

[Antithesis]

targeting you would be a waste of time, you have claimed that pack keep their abilities. and you would simply pull mj in front of you and then claim I targeted mj.

atleast if I target some one like bear, you pack members cant' twist it on me.


Wow, you are aptly named.

The only problem with your Theory is Bear would be alive to say, "Anti didn't hire me"

So even if I tried what you suggested, Bear would be there to call me on it.

But its ok, target Bear if ya want. Its basically the same thing.

[mistaken]

Wow, you are aptly named.

The only problem with your Theory is Bear would be alive to say, "Anti didn't hire me"

So even if I tried what you suggested, Bear would be there to call me on it.

But its ok, target Bear if ya want. Its basically the same thing.

:confused: I have bear as your fellow pack mate, so why would bear contradict you?


anti doesn't hire bear but claims to
bear doesn't get hired but claims he did

or you both have your powers.

disclaimer: this game has made me paraniod out of my mind.

[Antithesis]

:confused: I have bear as your fellow pack mate, so why would bear contradict you?


anti doesn't hire bear but claims to
bear doesn't get hired but claims he did

or you both have your powers.

disclaimer: this game has made me paraniod out of my mind.

Why would there be two pack members?

If Beara nd I were Pack why would both of us vote to lynch Rev, and thereby give up our chance to dominate the town through superior numbers the next day.

Now you are just making stuff up.

[mistaken]

Why would there be two pack members?

If Beara nd I were Pack why would both of us vote to lynch Rev, and thereby give up our chance to dominate the town through superior numbers the next day.

Now you are just making stuff up.

exactly!

I've been say 2 pack members 3 with last night recruit for two days now, and both you and bear seem to blow me off or point in some other direction. but you keep talking about solid arguements.

Since you joined the pack you have not made 1.

[Antithesis]

I am beggining to suspect that you are playing up your Newbieness.

Not even Shape has been dimwitted enough to suggest that the last two votes on a Pack member (Rev) would be from 2 other pack members.

I am starting to suspect you either don't have a kill. Or you will wanna try to cry "I was confused" when you won't go and do something everyone else in the game seems to think is obvious.

[Astil]

It is now Night Phase 13. You have until 2:00 PM EST November 25th to get all role PMs to Astil and D_w_w.

[Antithesis]

exactly!

I've been say 2 pack members 3 with last night recruit for two days now, and both you and bear seem to blow me off or point in some other direction. but you keep talking about solid arguements.

Since you joined the pack you have not made 1.

What Solid argument?

I know you are new, but its time for me to be a little mean here.

If bear, Rev and I were in the pack then 3 of 7 are pack Aligned.


Why the **** would Bear and I then turn around and lynch Rev?

Wouldn't it be better that that we would try to lynch MJ. Maybe convince TBP that MJ lied, or was scummy, thereby keeping 4 votes off of Rev, insuring that the pack would win the game?


NOOOO. According to you, Half the lynch votes on Rev were from the pack because... well because nothing. You ahvent given any reason for your silly little tripe except taht its what think.

Fine, think that way. Seeing what I have to work with from you, At least everyone else will understand how I lost this game for the town now.

[mistaken]

REV was hanging, and the two of you knew it.

to not step up would have been a far biggger sin than wait for the hammer to fall and been caught on the wrong side of that vote.

you argued over and over for rev, with shape then you were the hammer.

I appologize if your town and I loose you this game.

but I do not appologize for the assumptions I've made.


Arrows, Cyberkitten, Petrija, Prophet all on my your scum list long before I had any solid proof.

I helped Nail Arrows and I helped Nail Rev.

Until my math comes up wrong. I'm sticking to the numbers.

[The Shape]

mistaken, I'm fairly sure that during the night off after a recruiter's death, the player who will then become recruiter still has their old ability. I'm worried that Anti feels he can be confirmed as town by surviving a kill and THEN begin to bring more to his side.

As for MJ, I'm thinking less about general play and more about the way things add up. I'm fairly sure Arrows was the don and in that scenario MJ is the killer. So with that being said, I'd go for him, unless you are able to save it, search another body and test it on Anti tomorrow night.

[Antithesis]

REV was hanging, and the two of you knew it.

to not step up would have been a far biggger sin than wait for the hammer to fall and been caught on the wrong side of that vote.

you argued over and over for rev, with shape then you were the hammer.

I appologize if your town and I loose you this game.

but I do not appologize for the assumptions I've made.


Arrows, Cyberkitten, Petrija, Prophet all on my your scum list long before I had any solid proof.

I helped Nail Arrows and I helped Nail Rev.

Until my math comes up wrong. I'm sticking to the numbers.


Dude... just stop.

1) You are accussing me of bussing a scum buddy.
I have never, ever bussed a scum buddy, nor would I ever. Anyone who has ever been in a scum group with me will tell you that. I am not the most popular guy here, but anyone who's grouped with me, be it scum, masons, or a LAW styled thing, I have always put the group ahead of me, even if it meant my death.

For someone like you, who hasn't played a game here once, to suddenlt start accussing me of acting in a way that people know I wouldn't do... its cheap and silly.

Crap like this is why I said I wished more veterans had made it to this point. You, knowing nothing, will believe anything. Bussing groupmates is not me.. tahts UT, the guy I tease for doing it.

2) Go back and re-read the day's event. Was TBP after Rev or was TBP pushing on MJ?

I mean sure, go ahead and actually ignore what happened and what was said, since thats required to make your ridiculous argument. But if Bear and I were grouped with rev, it would have been easy to push for an MJ lynch and pick up TBP's vote and go for a no lynch and win the game then kill Rev (who Shape insists had to be our recruiter) and wait at least anotehr day if not 2 before winning the game.

Then add to that my damn self, Super Townie and a bag of chips, speaking up for Rev when Shape tried to link me to him with his silly argument.

Did it not make rev look scummier?

IF I WANTED REV LYNCHED AND TO HIDE MYSELF AND BEAR WHY DIDN'T I LIE AND SAY THAT I DIDN"T BLOCK REV


DOH DOH DOH


Doh


Arggg!!!

Holy crap you people make no freakin sense.

I argued over and over with Shape because his argument was contingent on me being scum.

I am not scum.

This did not mean that rev was town aligned (and thus my vote) but I wasn't going to sit there and have shape call me Pack aligned and not argue with his dip**** theory.

Somehow though, this to you proves that bear is scum too.

Maybe he is.
Send in your PM to kill him and lets get this overwith.

Arrows, Cyberkitten, Petrija, Prophet all on my your scum list long before I had any solid proof.

I helped Nail Arrows and I helped Nail Rev.


So Did I. According to you that makes me scum. Think about this stuff before you write it. Just do me that one favor.

[Antithesis]

mistaken, I'm fairly sure that during the night off after a recruiter's death, the player who will then become recruiter still has their old ability. I'm worried that Anti feels he can be confirmed as town by surviving a kill and THEN begin to bring more to his side.

As for MJ, I'm thinking less about general play and more about the way things add up. I'm fairly sure Arrows was the don and in that scenario MJ is the killer. So with that being said, I'd go for him, unless you are able to save it, search another body and test it on Anti tomorrow night.

You are pretty sure based on what?

You have any proof?

Because I have an argument several pages back using write ups to show that that probably isn't the case. But if yall wanna ignore it, nothing I can do about that.

[Antithesis]

mistaken, I'm fairly sure that during the night off after a recruiter's death, the player who will then become recruiter still has their old ability. I'm worried that Anti feels he can be confirmed as town by surviving a kill and THEN begin to bring more to his side.

As for MJ, I'm thinking less about general play and more about the way things add up. I'm fairly sure Arrows was the don and in that scenario MJ is the killer. So with that being said, I'd go for him, unless you are able to save it, search another body and test it on Anti tomorrow night.

And what if there is another recruitment tonight?

[The Shape]

And what if there is another recruitment tonight?

I'm certain Rev was the recruiter, so we don't need to account for that possibility IMO.

[Antithesis]

I'm certain Rev was the recruiter, so we don't need to account for that possibility IMO.

And your certainty equals Fact in the real world.

Must be nice to be omniscient.

Again, I repeat.

What if there is another recruitment tonight?

Would my MJ theory not look much stronger?

[Bear]

Anti, what was your argument for Pack losing their abilities?

[mistaken]

anti i will tell you the same thing I told MJ

I KNOW I AM NOT SCUM.

you don't have that luxury.

as for the 6 remaining people. your scum untill proven otherwise.

and the boogey man exsists until proven otherwise. and yelling your not scum, does no good. because unless we have proof like we did with arrows. a scum and a town are going to say the same thing. your town.

the old joke is you have two men, one a liar and the other honest. what question do you ask to determine the lair?

(as to your other arguement I claim to be a newbie too much. I stopped claiming new, except when I get these wonderful powers, that I barley understand. I've made the choice I have and will live with the consequences)

[Antithesis]

Anti, what was your argument for Pack losing their abilities?

Actarus's admission for 1.

2) That is the typical Cult role. You get recruited you lose your old abilities. Anyone can go to the wiki and confirm that.
Of course, that doesn't mean much. Mod's here do silly **** like Take an overpowered group like a cult and make them nigh impossible to beat by letting them keep their abilities.

Some mods will even shade PM's to make some scum look suspect but will make Culties doubtful.

Not that I would know any mods like that (sarcasm).

There is also an issue with the Trypio thing.

He says he was blocked N 6 (which really emans he didn't have an ability to use N6)

Most people think he became the recruiter N 7.

So that would fit..

BUT

MJ claimed he was hypnotized Night 6. That was the final Nail in Trypio's coffin.


So, I put it to the town.

Who was lying about N6. Trypio or MJ?

[The Shape]

And your certainty equals Fact in the real world.

Must be nice to be omniscient.

Again, I repeat.

What if there is another recruitment tonight?

Would my MJ theory not look much stronger?

Yes, but I'm confident that's not the case. You being the recruiter and all.

I take it you'd have no objections to MJ being killed tonight? Then we'll see where you stand. Bear in mind that you being targeted and surviving would do nothing for my trust of you unless there was a recruitment.

[Bear]

Actarus's admission for 1.

2) That is the typical Cult role. You get recruited you lose your old abilities. Anyone can go to the wiki and confirm that.
Of course, that doesn't mean much. Mod's here do silly **** like Take an overpowered group like a cult and make them nigh impossible to beat by letting them keep their abilities.

Some mods will even shade PM's to make some scum look suspect but will make Culties doubtful.

Not that I would know any mods like that (sarcasm).

There is also an issue with the Trypio thing.

He says he was blocked N 6 (which really emans he didn't have an ability to use N6)

Most people think he became the recruiter N 7.

So that would fit..

BUT

MJ claimed he was hypnotized Night 6. That was the final Nail in Trypio's coffin.


So, I put it to the town.

Who was lying about N6. Trypio or MJ?

Maybe they both did thinking it would clear both of them but backfired. Even if MJ told the truth then, it's been 12 phases since. **** is so dark right now that I hope tonight is so blatantly obvious that we can be done tomorrow. Bulletproof is a curse, not a blessing. I'm pretty sure I've reached burnout.

[Antithesis]

anti i will tell you the same thing I told MJ

I KNOW I AM NOT SCUM.

you don't have that luxury.

as for the 6 remaining people. your scum untill proven otherwise.

and the boogey man exsists until proven otherwise. and yelling your not scum, does no good. because unless we have proof like we did with arrows. a scum and a town are going to say the same thing. your town.

the old joke is you have two men, one a liar and the other honest. what question do you ask to determine the lair?

(as to your other arguement I claim to be a newbie too much. I stopped claiming new, except when I get these wonderful powers, that I barley understand. I've made the choice I have and will live with the consequences)



Of course I have the luxury of knowing I am not scum.

Don't be silly.

The only theory that says I am scum is Shape's, which I've shown to be fallacious.

If you and he are town, and you do vote on that, well, like I said, I'll at least have an excuse to give as to why I lost control of the town and it lost as a result.

It is pretty basic, really. And goes back to SW1.

See that game, the Jedi were leading the town throughout, and it came down to them staring the Sith right in the face. But, they didn't pull the trigger, and some newbie player, who was right about the scum, but didn't have clue otehrwise, did made a horrible mistake and gave the Sith the numbers to control the vote.

And thus Outlaw was lynched while attending some sporting event or something like that, Anyway.

Of course i teased Outlaw and Arrows about (Arrows not so much, because after the game ended his head had exploded).

And I think of a situation now where they come back and go "haha, you lost it"

Since I am town and being accussed, I figure the game is done anyway. So now I am looking how people will view the aftermath.

Was I wrong in pointing out Shape's silly argument? No

Did I defend Arrows to the death? No, I hammered the lynch on him.

Did I come up with a way to possibly show who the otehr Pack member is, despite all the garbage thrown at me? Yes

Did people believe it? Apparently not, and it hasn't even been tried yet.

Is it possible the newbie guy will screw it up? Sure looks that way.

Was there anything else I could do to help the town? Maybe I could change my tone a little and be nicer. But beyond that i can honestly say I gave the town everything i had.

Thus I am content.

[Antithesis]

Yes, but I'm confident that's not the case. You being the recruiter and all.

I take it you'd have no objections to MJ being killed tonight? Then we'll see where you stand. Bear in mind that you being targeted and surviving would do nothing for my trust of you unless there was a recruitment.

Confident huh?

How bout this.. Night 10 there was a recruitment and 47 townies confirmed my story that I Hoired Arrows that night.

So unless you are now gonna say that Pack recruiters can recruit and keep their powers... its pretty much a done deal that I am not the recruiter.

But since you are the townie leader, you were already cognizant of those that, and thus, your "confidant"

[The Shape]

Confident huh?

How bout this.. Night 10 there was a recruitment and 47 townies confirmed my story that I Hoired Arrows that night.

So unless you are now gonna say that Pack recruiters can recruit and keep their powers... its pretty much a done deal that I am not the recruiter.

But since you are the townie leader, you were already cognizant of those that, and thus, your "confidant"

You are the recruiter as of tomorrow night. But we'll deal with that when it comes down to it.

[Antithesis]

You are the recruiter as of tomorrow night. But we'll deal with that when it comes down to it.

But I am town aligned.

Seriously. Start working on a Plan B And maybe a Plan C and D.

Who is it wanting to kill MJ anyway?

I asked that Mistaken target me.

I know I am not scum, whether you believe it or not.

You asking Mistaken to kill MJ.

If he comes up town aligned, I don't think it will be accident on your part.

For whats its worth though, I have my doubts on MJ. So maybe you are town aligned.

[The Shape]

Just saying, I don't see any point in mistaken targeting you tonight, because I think that abilities are kept the night before recruiting begins.

[Antithesis]

Just saying, I don't see any point in mistaken targeting you tonight, because I think that abilities are kept the night before recruiting begins.

And again I ask, do you have any proof for that assumption or is it just something you "feel".

Like a bold wind.. dancing in the leaves...

[The Shape]

And again I ask, do you have any proof for that assumption or is it just something you "feel".

Like a bold wind.. dancing in the leaves...

Recruitment records...death counts...etc. Nights missed when recruiter dies, makes no sense for people to lose their abilities before they get anything new.

[Antithesis]

Recruitment records...death counts...etc. Nights missed when recruiter dies, makes no sense for people to lose their abilities before they get anything new.

Which records?

Which death counts?

Which etc?

Doesn't make any sense for the Mafia to lose a Night Kill when the Don dies, but they do.

[The Shape]

Things I've gone over before. Can't be arsed to do it again. Feel free to question me but so far I'm on track, and hopefully the right people see that.

[Antithesis]

Things I've gone over before. Can't be arsed to do it again. Feel free to question me but so far I'm on track, and hopefully the right people see that.

Well do you remember about what page its on?

I mean, I know its very unimportant, figuring out what the pack can and can't do, thus you can't be arsed about it.

But can you at least narrow down my search requirements?

[The Shape]

Search for what?

[Antithesis]

The search for the argument you can't be arsed about, of course.

[Antithesis]

I hope a neatral observer reads this exchange and comments on it later. Maybe I am biased, but I look at what Shape's saying now and I think, "well at least the town's in good hands."

[mistaken]

It has been so far. :p

[The Shape]

It's your search, you look back. Nothing you don't already know ;)

[Antithesis]

It's your search, you look back. Nothing you don't already know ;)

You'd be surprised at what I don't know. ;)

[The Shape]

And I'm off till after the end of the phase. mistaken, I trust you know what to do. Targeting Anti would prove nothing, so don't waste it.

[Astil]

Night Phase is over.

[mistaken]

thank the lord, hopefully we will learn something about Anti, he is who i targeted.

[mistaken]

and I found the keys to something,

I think Prophet was the car based serial killer.

[Astil]

Night Phase 13

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4269/lakesidegy3.jpg

They defeated another Pack. Only 6 remained from the city of thousands.

-

He moved in silence. His target had no idea what was coming.

-

Antithesis is dead. He was Lakeside Aligned

[mistaken]

lynch me now, but I don't know how I crept silently with a vehicle

[mistaken]

and I'm lost as crap

[mistaken]

Yeah, not that anyone should believe me, but I did not kill anti!!!!

and I still have my Keys, she was dead before I got there!

[mistaken]

I'm exstatic as crap, to go with my confusion

so Bear Pack, MJ mafia killer?

or is there something about shape and TBP I'm just not seeing?

[Astil]

It is now Day Phase 14. With 5 remaining it is 3 for lynch. You have until 1:00 PM November 27th to reach a majority.

[Antithesis]

Thank God I am free of this ****.

Adios.

[Antithesis]

Oh and P.S.

Told ya so.

[mistaken]

Oh and P.S.

Told ya so.

well I didn't kill you, (wish I had, I really do :cool:)

so I am guessing you were a mafia/pack kill

[mistaken]

could multi tasking refer to Shape? shape are you pulling double duty?

I mean the peson to kill anti had to be the person gaurding him.

but I don't know whether he trusted bear again (that would have been my play) or if he tried to block the mafia killer mj and ate lead for his efforts.

Vote: Bear

[The Shape]

Well damn. Anti really, really sounded like desperate scum.

But it appears he wasn't buying anyone. So something isn't right.

[mistaken]

Well damn. Anti really, really sounded like desperate scum.

But it appears he wasn't buying anyone. So something isn't right.

your not kidding.

are we sure the other night was a mafia kill and not the pack killing?

[The Shape]

This is bad...real bad. 5 of us left, 1 Pack who will recruit tonight if they didn't last night, and another killer.

Unless the mafia ARE gone and now the Pack are the ones multi-tasking? Either that or they're not recruiting at all. Act said at first that they could kill also so maybe now they have to.

Anti seemed suspicious of MJ. If he was continuing to try to use the blockage as a weapon, then all I can think of is that he killed him.

[The Shape]

your not kidding.

are we sure the other night was a mafia kill and not the pack killing?

No idea.

[mistaken]

shape, your poem and note

did they go to different people?

or the same person last night?

[The Shape]

Poem went to Bear again, seeing as he's as confirmed town as anyone and safe from kills.

Note I sent to Anti, giving suggestions on the off chance he was town (like I did with iMac early on in the game...and turns out he was as well).

[mistaken]

Poem went to Bear again, seeing as he's as confirmed town as anyone and safe from kills.

Note I sent to Anti, giving suggestions on the off chance he was town (like I did with iMac early on in the game...and turns out he was as well).

not being ignorant work that one out for me.


I've got you (shape) and TBP as my safe Town's

Bear prime, MJ number 2

if I were you, I know I would know be suspect #1

[The Shape]

I'm not so sure. It's pretty apparent right now that Anti can't block scum, so in my eyes that clears Bear for now. TBP, I'm unsure of completely, I don't think he'd have been recruited but if Arrows wasn't the don then maybe he was. However I think whoever Anti targeted is the man we need...I doubt it was him. You coming to kill him would have made it an interesting choice, but still...yeah, I think MJ.

[mistaken]

I'm not so sure. It's pretty apparent right now that Anti can't block scum, so in my eyes that clears Bear for now. TBP, I'm unsure of completely, I don't think he'd have been recruited but if Arrows wasn't the don then maybe he was. However I think whoever Anti targeted is the man we need...I doubt it was him. You coming to kill him would have made it an interesting choice, but still...yeah, I think MJ.

who's gonna target the PGO?

if he were scum targeting me would make sense.

but since he was town, you would think he would grab the person he thought was scum (which seemed to be mj) and let them take fall for him.

Still not clear if Scum would actually protect anti (as arrows was targetting him, and rev clearly was not)

[mistaken]

but if anti as town thought, I was scum and MJ was scum, why not grab bear (whom he thought was town) and let the mafia's shot and my shot (cause that's what he thought i had) bounce off the bullet proof bear?

[mistaken]

we need MJ to come home from school.

[The Shape]

who's gonna target the PGO?

Doubt he's a fully fledged PGO. Might alternate according to nights. Some nothing, some silencing, some death.

but if anti as town thought, I was scum and MJ was scum, why not grab bear (whom he thought was town) and let the mafia's shot and my shot (cause that's what he thought i had) bounce off the bullet proof bear?

I don't think he expected to be killed, so probably tried to use it as a weapon again.

Thinking about this, 1 or 2 of the 5 here are scum, depending on if it's a Pack kill or not. There may or may not still be recruitment. If there's still one Pack and one mafia left then MJ pretty much has to be one of them, so I think he's the right move for today. The staying in a couple of nights ago...it just doesn't sit right with me. Especially if being recruited roleblocks someone, hmm.

Unless there's still the mafia don lurking around then I don't see how TBP can be scum, but to be fair maybe prophet didn't solve the "avenging kin" conundrum and that could well be the case. As for you mistaken, right now I'm sketchy. You targeted Anti, something I didn't expect nor want (though it did help answer some questions and he can laugh at me all he wants now), and he died.

But I stand by my thought that Anti blocked MJD. I'm just waiting to hear what he has to say.

[mistaken]

doesnt' MJ usually show up soon after3;30?

I know he's a school person, so I can't read into that to much.

[Bear]

Anti didn't buy me last night. No confirmation PM. I wish he had now.

[mistaken]

change vote: no vote

[mjdgoldeneye]

I had a meeting after school today.

I have a few things to say...

One, I have to say that Shape: You are scum, you are completely incapable of thinking, or you think I am mentally challenged.

Same for anyone who thinks I'm scum...

Please, THINK! HOW THE **** COULD I BE MAFIA!!!

Rather, how could I be mafia and not be completely and utterly stupid?

Please, if you can figure that out, I'll accept your logical as at least relevant and worth typing out.

I simply must say that I don't want to be killed because you think I'm stupid... Aside from that possibility, there is now way that you'd think I was mafia unless you yourself were stupid or scum.

Now, for business:

I completely disobeyed Anti and investigated someone else. I couldn't say "No, I refuse to investigate Anti" or mistaken would try to kill me. I didn't investigate him simply because I can't see what it's prove or how it'd help my case.

Had I gotten "Lakeside Aligned" and said so, Anti would immediately push to lynch me. Had I got a town result ("not Lakeside Aligned"), we wouldn't have benefited as a town at all and only Anti's personal interests would have been satisfied (plus, I wouldn't really be cleared). I HAD to find scum to save myself and win Lakeside the game.

So, I investigated Bear. I couldn't find him. I "searched and searched" but he was nowhere to be found. I have no frickin' idea what that even means...

Who did Anti say he was going to buy? Whoever that was is scum because Anti is dead. Pretty simple...

In closing, all I have to ask is that EVERYONE... EVERYONE...

Pay attention! We know that there is at least 1 scum left. All bets are off... We have to consider everything, and we need to be right TODAY. I'm completely bewildered by all the assumptions people are trying to make math out of... We have to cast aside the math and only go by what we KNOW or what we know CAN be true.

If when it all boils down and I am (somehow) the only logical suspect, lynch me. However, I need everyone to cast aside any and all assumptions before doing that and obey the power of Occam's Razor and people's personalities. YES, they MATTER! I KNEW Arrows was scum as soon as he made up his BS role. it was BLATANT.

PEOPLE DO NOT CHANGE...

...

I think I'm done ranting...

[mjdgoldeneye]

I have to ask: Didn't Anti make it clear that he was going to buy Bear, or am I crazy?

[mjdgoldeneye]

1. Bear
10. Tha Black Phenom
15. mistaken
35. The Shape

I have to go by the fact that I am still Lakeside.

One or (most likely) two of the above are scum.

If Anti said he was buying Bear, and he can't target scum (as he suspected), and Bear is scum, then Bear is scum... (Duh...)

Tha Black Phenom checks out as well as I do ("her" role has appeared in write-ups, right?), so I'll have to put town here...

mistaken can easily have been recruited or have been scum all along. It's unlikely that he's mafia, but he was vulnerable to recruitment as I admit I was. However, I check out up until at least the last recruitment and Anti died while mistaken claims he didn't kill Anti... Wasn't it your goal to target him?

The Shape I am worried about, but here's how I see it:

Bear - Mafia Killer
Mistaken - Recruit

What proof is there against this scenario? (Honest question... I want to deduce our choice today as Socrates would.)

[mistaken]

I don't know what anti planned on doing, but if you couldn't find bear, and anti was dead before I got there to kill him....


chances are bear killed him and ran off.

but usually some body sees something. so unless it's someboddy really fast that killed him and hid bear?

or a person with rotating powers TPB

I confuses as crap

[Bear]

There's no reason for you not being able to find me. I think you know that 'not being able to find me' would be suspicious. You can't say my role has changed because when I come up town, you'll be screwed. You had to have known the heat would be on you today and this is you trying to get out of it. You can't argue it's not logic because it make perfect sense.

Vote: MJDGoldeneye

Mistaken, the reason you didn't see me at Anti's is because he didn't buy me.

[mjdgoldeneye]

I say ignore the flavor... You can't say "Well, he was here then, and then blah blah blah".

Honestly, one of the first rules of mafia are that the mod has every right to screw up continuity as long as it's consistent and doesn't affect a player's results.

(Sure, messing up continuity consistently sounds weird, but I'm sure you know what I mean.)

All I can say is that I'm the missing piece. I know I'm not scum, and Occam's Razor directs us to Bear as obvious scum. As for who the other would be, I'm not sure.

Unless Bear is Pack and Shape, mistaken, or TBP are mafia, it has to be Bear as mafia and the only logical other recruit (mistaken) as Pack.

As for Bear being mafia: It makes sense that Anti would buy him. He never met his wife as he logically should have. It makes sense that if Anti tried to buy the one who was coming to kill him, he'd fail regardless.

If we lynch Bear and he's mafia, I think we've won...

[Bear]

I say ignore the flavor... You can't say "Well, he was here then, and then blah blah blah".

Honestly, one of the first rules of mafia are that the mod has every right to screw up continuity as long as it's consistent and doesn't affect a player's results.

(Sure, messing up continuity consistently sounds weird, but I'm sure you know what I mean.)

All I can say is that I'm the missing piece. I know I'm not scum, and Occam's Razor directs us to Bear as obvious scum. As for who the other would be, I'm not sure.

Unless Bear is Pack and Shape, mistaken, or TBP are mafia, it has to be Bear as mafia and the only logical other recruit (mistaken) as Pack.

As for Bear being mafia: It makes sense that Anti would buy him. He never met his wife as he logically should have. It makes sense that if Anti tried to buy the one who was coming to kill him, he'd fail regardless.

If we lynch Bear and he's mafia, I think we've won...

You know all three roles, the husband, wife and hunk were all town in LS1.

[mjdgoldeneye]

Why in the hell wouldn't Anti buy Bear?

He would NEVER have tried to buy me... He wanted to live, so he chose someone he thought was town... I was suspicious, and to block me would ruin the whole point of telling me to investigate him.

Simply, for him to block me and for me to be scum would mean that we're both stupid... I assure you, we're not...

And, why would I ever say I couldn't find you? Why wouldn't I have been able to find you? No answer? Well then, where do you expect me to find justification for that supposed lie?

I can't!

If I was scum, it'd have been wise to say I targeted Anti as I said I would. If I was scum, it would be wise to look like I was obeying the deal.

It doesn't check out for me to be lying... In order for me to be scum, a giant pile of completely bizarre situations would have to occur that simply couldn't have.

YOU ARE SCUM!

Vote: Bear

Even if he is town by some amazing stretch of imagination, it'll be mistaken, Bear, the Shape, and TBP left. The Shape and TBP are untouchable and there'll be 2 different 1 member factions left. The town would win by stalemate...

(If Bear is dumb enough to kill mistaken, you'd win too...)

[mjdgoldeneye]

You know all three roles, the husband, wife and hunk were all town in LS1.

How exactly is that relevant?

I'm pretty sure there are roles that haven't shown up, and the role you claimed isn't the same as in LS1...

There's a clear chance that you're mafia and there's clear chance that you aren't the husband...

As Anti said, why didn't you join your wife when you were supposed to? Why would your role NOT join with the wife?

That's how it was in LS1... And, hell, we know my role is the same...

[Bear]

If we lynch Bear and he's mafia, I think we've won...

Even this line is impossible. I trust Mistaken when he says he couldn't kill Anti so that means there's a killer and a pack. Do delude anyone with victory when we need to lynch two more.

[Bear]

How exactly is that relevant?

I'm pretty sure there are roles that haven't shown up, and the role you claimed isn't the same as in LS1...

There's a clear chance that you're mafia and there's clear chance that you aren't the husband...

As Anti said, why didn't you join your wife when you were supposed to? Why would your role NOT join with the wife?

That's how it was in LS1... And, hell, we know my role is the same...

You're role ISN'T the same. A very obvious difference is that you're insane.

[Bear]

Even if he is town

Here's the difference between yourself and I. You're setting yourself up for a back peddle. I know you're scum and therefore I won't need to back peddle.