[POLL] Business Aspects

[Decado]

This poll is just to gauge peoples opinions on the business aspects of the game being removed. Personally i think that as in WMMA you play the president, and not just the matchmaker, that you should have control over areas of the finances, and be able to start your own promotion.

Anyone who has watched any of Dana White's blogs for instance will know he handles a lot more than just making a match.

[samuricex]

It depends. The business aspect from the first game was pretty bad in my opinion. It was best to just set everything to the max (or lowest for certain things, like ticket prices if you want a huge turnout). If it was worked on to where you had to actually make choices that would matter, then yeah, I'd definitely vote for it to return.

No, i don't like finance, but let us make our own promotions in game!

[Derek B]

Honestly, the business aspects that have been removed are the ticketing and promotional aspects. The promotional aspects were there to control growth, which is far more realistically and better handled by show quality and star power as it is now.

Ticketing may be a different issue, although since it's basically a balance of attendance vs money it makes more sense that it's being handled by promotion size than the way the shows are promoted. Afterall, what is the real point of being able to control the size of a crowd when your JOB is to make money?

Though I do miss the ability to start your own promotion, but the rest are all better handled now IMO.

[Deathwing416]

I spent no time dealing with finance in the last game and had 0 problem building up new promotions or keeping new promotions steady at the top.

So I guess at the end of the day they could have left it in and it wouldn't have made a difference in the way the game played out.

[Decado]

I think that sponsorship deals, funding certain training camps, setting up feeder promotions (or supporting regional promotions and thus increasing the chances of them producing a quality fighter, and increases your awareness in that area) and ticket/merchandise pricing are all interesting and useful financial aspects.

[bill2169]

I never really used the financial controls or created my own promotion, so not having them in is not that big a deal.

[AlexB]

I voted bring back create a promotion, but it'll be easy enough to do via the editor anyway.

[basketball45231]

The old business stuff made it WAY too easy to make it big. You just set everything to max for advertising, lost money for 2 months, made it big. Now it will take time to build up a company.

I kinda like that you can't start your own company. A match maker wouldnt be able to in real life.

[D16NJD16]

I gotta say that anyone who isnt for either being included as an option is extremely selfish. If people had an easy time making it big last time, it should have been fixed so that it would have been harder, not removed

[BuddyGarner]

It couldn't be brought back for WMMA 2 because the WMMA 1 was overpowered. Just set everything to all out assault.

Maybe start a campaign for WMMA 3. I'd rather have the way the game handles retirements fixed first though. Actually, I'd rather have all aspects involving the fighters improved before the business side.

You should be able to start your own promotion. Having to use the editor is bad. it breaks your immersion into the game.

[Adam Ryland]

I gotta say that anyone who isnt for either being included as an option is extremely selfish. If people had an easy time making it big last time, it should have been fixed so that it would have been harder, not removed

You seem fixated on the idea that every game should have as much stuffed into it as possible - you've made similar comments for pretty much all my games. A big part of game design is coming up with the direction and feel for the game, and sometimes features need to be removed to meet those goals. Your way - essentially sticking as much stuff into the game as possible because "more features must equal a better game" - is an extremely blinkered view in my opinion. The business side of things wasn't removed because of anything to do with the difficulty of the game, it was done because I wanted to streamline the game to improve its focus and playability.

And no, not everything can be put in as "an option". That shows a fundamental misunderstanding of game design and programming.

[Decado]

Hey Adam, There seems to be quite a bit of customer demand for those features to return - I know i personally enjoyed them as did many others.

Is there any chance of them being added to the full version in a patch update at some point? (At least the create own promotion, which shouldn't be too hard since the mechanics for it already exist in the editor?)

Judging by the poll almost 90% of all your customers would like to see at least the start own promotion option return, what are the chances of this happening?

[weidt]

Finances -- Good riddens. It was an unnecessary annoyance.

Promotion Creation -- It would be welcomed back, but not a big deal since I can create promotions in the editor and import them into my current savegame as I go along.

I miss the meeting screen the most. It was nice to see all the potential match-ups and their interest levels, coupled with whether two fighters had fought before. It was all right in front of you.

But I can't make any judgement of WMMA2 based on this limited demo.

[Lifebleeder]

I guess my response is this. Putting in the Financial aspects makes this a game. Although limited to one month, the feeling I get from WMMA2 makes it feel like a MMA Fight Simulator. Which is fine, except you can go on google, type in MMA Fight Simulator and find numerous FREE applications that do just that, and do it quite well.

It lacks depth, and while WMMA1's financial controls were by no means perfect, that doesn't mean it should have just been dropkicked into the trashcan altogether. It was a good idea that could have been improved upon.

Like I've said previously, all of the additions are awesome. The game flows nicely, it loads and runs nicely. I don't have a problem with the graphics like most. I think the new matchmaking system is much more streamlined, simplified, and generally better. I just don't understand why a major portion of the first game was left out.

-Edit

The complaint about the meeting screen is ridiculous. I don't know what game you guys were running, but the meeting screen in my WMMA1 game is super slow. Pretty much all of the information from the meeting screen is right in front of you at the matchmaking screen, and with the roster analysis now added to the matchmaking screen it makes the arguement damn near obsolete.

[Adam Ryland]

Hey Adam, There seems to be quite a bit of customer demand for those features to return - I know i personally enjoyed them as did many others.

Is there any chance of them being added to the full version in a patch update at some point? (At least the create own promotion, which shouldn't be too hard since the mechanics for it already exist in the editor?)

Judging by the poll almost 90% of all your customers would like to see at least the start own promotion option return, what are the chances of this happening?

Creating your own promotion might be added. There's absolutely no chance of sponsors or any of the business controls returning, because they do not fit in AT ALL with what this game is about.

And just because I am a statistician at heart, I'll just mention that your last paragraph is very misleading. "90% of all my customers" is a pretty messed up way of reading that poll, what you meant was 90% of the handful of people who have voted. I would hope that 90% of my entire customer base would realise that sponsors sucked, always sucked, always will suck, and should never ever be featured again.

[Adam Ryland]

Although limited to one month, the feeling I get from WMMA2 makes it feel like a MMA Fight Simulator. Which is fine, except you can go on google, type in MMA Fight Simulator and find numerous FREE applications that do just that, and do it quite well.

But none of them have the roster management \ long term planning \ talent spotting bits attached to them - and that's where the heart of WMMA2 is. WMMA2 isn't a fight simulator with a game attached, it's a game with a fight simulator attached, and that's a HUGE difference.

I just don't understand why a major portion of the first game was left out.

Because my opinion is that a large part of the audience want a streamlined approach - they want to deal with hirings and firings, with bookings, and how results effect their roster and fighters - and that it makes a better game.

Will it alienate some people? Yes. Am I comfortable with that? Yes. Because the bottom line is that people are free to not purchase the game if they are not happy with my decision, and I have enough confidence in my abilities to believe that I will gain considerably more new fans with this game that I lose.

[Lifebleeder]

I guess my choice of words could have been better. I should say I know why it was done. As I stated in the other post I made on the topic, I figure it will now appeal to a more mass market that doesn't want to deal with something that can look complicated.

So I guess what I ment to say was, I understand why it was done, I just wish it wasn't.

[petecrimson00]

It couldn't be brought back for WMMA 2 because the WMMA 1 was overpowered. Just set everything to all out assault.

Maybe start a campaign for WMMA 3. I'd rather have the way the game handles retirements fixed first though. Actually, I'd rather have all aspects involving the fighters improved before the business side.

You should be able to start your own promotion. Having to use the editor is bad. it breaks your immersion into the game.

dude. WMMA 2 isnt even released yet! and ur thinkin about WMMA 3?

[Nephrinn]

IMO, the business aspect in WMMA1 was NOT a major portion of the game. It was, however, a major annoyance and a broken system. Sure, it was fun turning BCF or your own little promotion into a giant, but that had more to do with your own matchmaking skills then it did with your business skills. Once you became a larger company, the business aspect *died*. It just became an unnecessary annoyance because you were literally swimming in money at that point.

WMMA2 really isn't changing the process of turning a small promotion to a big one; you live and die on your matchmaking skills. Additionally, bigger promotions no longer have the security of laying back and swimming in money with every financial option cranked on high to avoid the matchmaking process that the smaller promotions live and die on.

So, I think it's a good move on Adam's part in making WMMA more about the matchmaking process and less about the business aspect, which was broken to begin with.

[Blackman]

I'd like the finance feature back, but I'm not gonna cry if it won't make the final version. In fact, I expect Adam won't change it. After all, it's such a small feature. Like I said before, I'd like to offer lower ticket prices and free tickets to my fans if I've got the money for it. I like bigger crowds anyhow.

Though in TEW, in doesn't seem to have that much effect if you're holding a free show, for some reason. :p

[D16NJD16]

even though i wont end up buying it on the release day, im still going to keep an eye on here to see what ends up changing and if impressions improve from demo to full version and full version to patched versions because you never know.

[BrokenCycle]

Not having in depth finance feature accentuates everything I love about WMMA. You go in, book a bunch of matches for a show, and advance to that show. Bam, instant satisfaction. The game has a perfect mix of controlling the game directly, and controlling the game non-directly and you'll be sure to be surprised every show you run.

It's a great change of pace to TEW. I spend way too much time perfecting every little detail in that game.

[bamjunior177]

why not just give the choice just like the Football manager

be owner and president

or be president


keeping the same method as WMMA 1 would be good for me

i will still buy it but i don't like the removing of feature ...

[TheBrockLock]

WMMA2 isn't a fight simulator with a game attached, it's a game with a fight simulator attached, and that's a HUGE difference.

I think this is the perfect way to sum WMMA 2 up. I have downloaded the demo and I am having trouble understanding peoples complaints about the game. If you go and look at what Adam said here you will understand why certain aspects were taken out, like the meeting screen and sponsoships. Those jut added more unneccesary things to do before you got to play the game, and in my opinion the game is becoming the best MMA promotion, and if the game can get the same ressults with less useless features then why keep those featuers in?
Like the meeting screen for example, every bit of information you had on the meeting screen is on the matchmaking screen now, plus more. Instead of going into the meeting, sorting through, filtering by fan insterest, picking your fighters, seeing if they will be avaible, setting up the match, then adding it you now go to one screen and see all of this right off the bat with 1 or 2 clicks.
People need to remember this is a game and we buy it to play them game, with some of these features taken out we can get to playing the game faster and still having the same effects on whats happening.

EDIT: Sorry for the rant but since the demo came out there has been a lot of critisim for the same old things and I felt that it was not justified, hence the rant.

[Nedew]

why not just give the choice just like the Football manager

be owner and president

or be president

Uh, since when has that been a feature of Football Manager? If anything, SI have repeatedly stated that they're *against* that idea.

[Eyeball]

I will withhold judgement on whether I'd like the finance settings back when the full game is released and I've played a new promotion for a while. I really liked WMMA1, but my major complaint with it was that it was more of a simulator than an actual game. Money was only an issue until you hit Medium Size for your promotion and could then spam TV shows to get to Large and Huge quickly for the big PPV bucks, at which point it was literally impossible to run out of money and removing any kind of risk of failing from the game.
I hope WMMA2 will be more challenging throughout with regards to financial management.

[Sudo_Nym]

Face it, Sponsership was tedious. Replacing it with a more abstract system was good for TEW, it works here. I can handle the removal of the business end; that's why the company hires other people who specialize in that sort of thing. At least, that's how I justify it.

[MVP!]

I believe that an MMA game should focus on what happens in the events themselves, the matches, the rivalries, and WMMA does a pretty good job at that with the strategies and the match engine. But WMMA not only does that, but it gives you a world of fighters and the ability to control the most significant business aspect of MMA: contracts. That's one of the few things that are truly essencial "business-wise" in this game.

Most financial options in the first WMMA were fluff and easy to manipulate and really not worth the trouble. Now we can focus on the matches and the action inside the ring/cage, making sure that we offer the best matchups possible but keeping in mind on the long term aspect of things and some business aspects that really matter (PPV negotiations, contracts, TV etc).

But one feature that I truly hope that Adam puts in the retail version is the create a promotion option, that would be sweet and a real challenge.

[SammoHung]

I believe that an MMA game should focus on what happens in the events themselves, the matches, the rivalries, and WMMA does a pretty good job at that with the strategies and the match engine. But WMMA not only does that, but it gives you a world of fighters and the ability to control the most significant business aspect of MMA: contracts. That's one of the few things that are truly essencial "business-wise" in this game.


Very true. To make yet another analogy with soccer managing games, I love the "financial" aspect of buying-selling players, being an essential part of the "managing talents" aspect, but i absolutely hate all those games that make you renew sponsorships, sell ad space in the stadium, decide how much to price a jersey and keep track of stuff like that.


Most financial options in the first WMMA were fluff and easy to manipulate and really not worth the trouble. Now we can focus on the matches and the action inside the ring/cage, making sure that we offer the best matchups possible but keeping in mind on the long term aspect of things and some business aspects that really matter (PPV negotiations, contracts, TV etc).

But one feature that I truly hope that Adam puts in the retail version is the create a promotion option, that would be sweet and a real challenge.

I absolutely agree. Might i add that a rough estimate of how many ppl a future event is going to draw in terms of box office and ppv revenue (like in the original game) is not a bad idea, and largely more important to manage the financial aspect than everything else?

[Blackman]

lol. If you wanna make your own promotions so badly, why not make one yourself before the game starts? Same f'n ballpark to me.

[Capelli King]

O well, seems most people want the business side to the game back, i think i agree with Adam on this in general that the game should stick to being what it should be, which is a simulator, but on the other hand it does kind of limit some parts of the game such as the marketing, which made it easier to build up a promotion which had the funding or the tickets which allowed for bigger crowds

[SammoHung]

lol. If you wanna make your own promotions so badly, why not make one yourself before the game starts? Same f'n ballpark to me.

Personally i like making one after a few years of playing, and only when i am bored with the one i worked on i decide to make another and choose my investors for that (which i always found oddly funny). You can't just do it making one with the editor and/or importing it. :)
It's not, of course, a MAJOR problem i am going to have with the game if not present... just appreciated that Adam has expressed a slight possibility of that coming back. Just a slight touch that adds to the fun without unbalancing the game structure as it is. ;)

[Thomnipotent]

The only problem I see with the removal of the 'create your own promotion' feature is that players won't be able to bail on their company and start a new one mid-game... unless you import data, la la la, I suppose... but. I don't know. It was always a neat option to have sitting there, especially if you're the type who doesn't like to muck around in the in-game editor.