Mafia Games: Guidelines For Mods (Part 1)

[Derek B]

This is a thread for people to discuss guidelines on how to make a good mafia game. Everything from organisational tips, to advice on doing write ups to dealing with troublesome players can be talked about in here.

At some later time this will hopefully be distilled down into a much shorter and easier giude but this is for discussion just now. Good luck everyone! :cool:

Oh... EVERYONE IS WELCOME TO CONTRIBUTE! There are a lot of qualified people on this, share your experience and opinions for the betterment of all!

[Derek B]

First up, since Destiny is just working through it just now for Buffy mafia, is role PMs and the initial write up.

These are things that can be done long before a game is ever run, with perhaps only a few names needing to be plugged in for those who can talk to others outside the thread. As such, these SHOULD be written up in a format that can be copied and pasted easily into a PM and sent to people at the start of a game. There are a couple of text editors on the GDS site... the regular one where you need to add the tags for code and the WYSIWYG editor.

The first one requires you to have all the tags typed in, which can make proof-reading your role PMs difficult but ensures you won't have any problems when sending the PMs out. You can make sure they are all ready to send by using the GDS site itself to preview the PMs, just make sure not to send them to anyone before they are meant to be sent!

The second one is ideal for copying and pasting straight out of MS Word. At least it should be.

From my own experience of modding, this will make it easy to get the game started, reducing the times for sending out the initial PMs to 1 minute per message (you have to wait 60 seconds).

From modding E-ville I also learned that if you send a message to more than 1 person the names of each recipient appear in that message. So if you have multiple of the same role (for me it was Town Aligned Doctor and Town Aligned Student) then DO NOT do this. :p

[Antithesis]

1)IF you are a first time mod, get a co-mod with modding experience.

2) Play the numbers game. Typically, having 1/4 to 1/3 of the total player base as scum is balanced against the town (of course, one must also consider things like how many potential night kills there are in the game, if the town has a Mason group to work with it, if there is a cult and how it operates, and if if you have multiple scum groups, if they can work together or must defeat each other as well).

3) Themed games offer extra means for the town to discern who is scum. This includes character claims and following player descriptions in the write ups. If the theme isn't incredibly broad, the mod must take care to not out a character clearly in the write ups unless the game is designed/balanced to include that fact. If you pick a certain theme and then only use characters from one particular time period in that universe, be aware then that scum will be forced to fake claim from that time period as well.

4) If you are gonna have a cult in the game, and you have a Mafia as well, don't write up about one and try to hide the other. That favors one group against the other.

5) It may be difficult, but try to treat write ups consistently. By this I mean if you describe a certain character one way, don't dramatically change that description just to keep people guessing. Basically, try to avoid punishing people for actually playing the game. Sometimes you do have to keep people guessing, but just fair about it.

Finally. In the SIN game several things started to happen that I didn't anticipate originally that, had changes not been made, the game would have become imbalanced as a result. So, with A LOT of debate and consideration between myself and my co-mods, we made some adjustments during the course of the game. Of course, in this situation what we changed wasn't anything already going on in the game, but we could forsee what would happen, and addressed the issue before it became one.

[Destiny]

Those are some great points, both of you, and should certainly help me as I begin Sunnydale.

[ShadowedFlames]

Re: Derek's point about role PM's and write-ups.

Originally, thomnipotent was supposed to run Final Fantasy, and I was going to co-mod it. We had ideas for characters already thought out, and the "certain" roles already had been fully fleshed out with a Role PM and such. Granted, it was some seven to eight months ahead of time, but if you know you're going to be running the next game or the game after next, it's a good time to sit down and get everything written up and ready to go. This gives you time to check for errors in the role PM formatting or the information provided. ("Jay, Kwikie Mart regular?" :mad: ) This way, when it comes time to send out PM's, you've already got the lion's share of the work done.

At that point, you can also get a head-start on the opening write-up. A good write-up can do wonders to get people interested in the game--Anti's SIN opening write-up was excellent in that regard. The more time you sit down to present something, the cleaner it's going to look in the end.

Also, by having everything done and formatted properly before assigning roles, you could get away with sending out role PM's by yourself in less than an hour. Copy, paste, insert names if needed, wait the required 60 seconds, then do the next. FF Mafia took me 48 minutes to send out all the PMs, if memory serves me correctly, and that was doing it by myself.

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This is one I cannot stress enough.

If you're going to pick a time for phase to end, make sure either you or a co-mod will be around to end the phase at that time! I've seen a few games get derailed because "end of phase was 12 hours ago and we're still waiting on a write-up."

Granted, an hour or so leeway to create a write-up from scratch (if it's a detailed write-up) is acceptable. You could try to cheat a little and do the write-ups as you go, but I would not recommend it (despite this being the system I used personally). All it takes is one last-second PM from someone and you've lost half your write-up to editing purposes.

As the mod, it's ultimately up to you to keep the game moving, even if players are not posting or voting. If you have a deadline, stick to it, and make sure to end the phase on or as close to that deadline as you possibly can. That goes a long way into keeping the players focused on the game and not the night spaghetti during day phase.

[d_w_w]

1)IF you are a first time mod, get a co-mod with modding experience.

2) Play the numbers game. Typically, having 1/4 to 1/3 of the total player base as scum is balanced against the town (of course, one must also consider things like how many potential night kills there are in the game, if the town has a Mason group to work with it, if there is a cult and how it operates, and if if you have multiple scum groups, if they can work together or must defeat each other as well).

3) Themed games offer extra means for the town to discern who is scum. This includes character claims and following player descriptions in the write ups. If the theme isn't incredibly broad, the mod must take care to not out a character clearly in the write ups unless the game is designed/balanced to include that fact. If you pick a certain theme and then only use characters from one particular time period in that universe, be aware then that scum will be forced to fake claim from that time period as well.

4) If you are gonna have a cult in the game, and you have a Mafia as well, don't write up about one and try to hide the other. That favors one group against the other.

5) It may be difficult, but try to treat write ups consistently. By this I mean if you describe a certain character one way, don't dramatically change that description just to keep people guessing. Basically, try to avoid punishing people for actually playing the game. Sometimes you do have to keep people guessing, but just fair about it.

Finally. In the SIN game several things started to happen that I didn't anticipate originally that, had changes not been made, the game would have become imbalanced as a result. So, with A LOT of debate and consideration between myself and my co-mods, we made some adjustments during the course of the game. Of course, in this situation what we changed wasn't anything already going on in the game, but we could forsee what would happen, and addressed the issue before it became one.

yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Adding to that:

1. Do not be afraid to use basic roles. Not every role has to be new and exciting. Some innovation is encouraged, but there is no need to rebuild the wheel. The game works because the foundations are solid.

2. Be careful with power roles. Depending on the size, there is generally no reason for the town to have more than 1 or 2 investigators. Same could be said for scum groups - giving them more than 1 kill per night can have drastic effects on balance over time.

3. You don't have to have everything in the game. It is simply not the case that every mafia game needs a busdriver, nexus, serial killer, cult, lightning rod, inventor, thief, silencer, etc.

[Derek B]

I'm glad people are contributing, I'm hoping for more mods to join in and share their experiences and opinions too. The list for running games may be of epic length but everything helps. I know there are things I wished I'd known when I modded E-Ville. :)

Anyways, to Anti....

1. Everyone can use a co-mod regardless of their own experience. Ideally they'll be involved in the creation of the game too, so that in the event of the main mod not being able to run things the co-mods can easily step in.

2. Game structure is something I'm likely to come up with a HUGE post about at some point in the future, but generally speaking, try to think about how long your game is going to run. With 30+ people in a game, anything that runs longer than about 7 full cycles is going to have a LOT of info out there. The longer a game runs the more info is out there, which only really benefits town and cults. 10 cycles IMO is about as long as a game can run before becoming unbalanced by sheer weight of time and usage of skills.

3. /nod

4. I generally agree with Anti on this one, but this also comes down to the way a game is written up too. See below for more. :)

5. Consistency is one of the key things in modding.

6. This highlights that no mod can accurately predict the way people will play a game. No matter how much work goes into planning things, once you add the human element to a game it seems that rational thinking goes out the window. Mods not only need to be able to see what could happen in their games, but they need to be able to react to unforeseen circumstances too. And to communuicate with their co-mods when necessary.

And now, some of Derek B's opinions on write ups

Every game has them and every mod has their own rules for what goes in them and what doesn't. Every player can read them differently and draw their own interpretations from them. No matter what the mod though, one thing is always important and Anti mentioned it before.

BE CONSISTENT! Regardles of the style you choose for your write ups, consistency is by far the most important aspect. People look for clues in write ups and these clues can be linked in so many ways that it's easy for an inconsistency to be turned into a lynch if read one way by the right person. Whether it's consistency with the source material (there was confusion over a Stonecutter costume in Simpsons), with things in a role PM (Kwik-e-mart vs Kwik Stop), or even a change of phrasing in results... be consistent.

As for the actual style of write ups, this should be decided before the game begins. I'd even suggest doing some sample write ups based on possible combinations of events. There have been several ways of deciding what makes it into a write up and what doesn't.

E-Ville was basically kills and anywhere that had 3 or more people in close proximity. SIN (since Anti is in this thread :)) showed events of interest going on in places with the power turned on.

Some mods like to go into details and characterise people significantly, while others prefer a really barebones approach.

Whatever you choose to do, and it will need to vary with the theme of your game, consistency is of the utmost importance. As a mod, anything you write is considered gospel and anything another player writes is considered a lie. Obviously there are red herrings, and events that players won't know about... but ultimately, the mod's posts cannot be refuted and have to be considered the closest thing to a fact that any player can have.

----------------------

I've got a lot of my own opinions on the way I think write ups should be. I've even been quite vocal about them in the past too. In my opinion they should be kept as vague as possible. I don't believe that people should be able to use write ups as a source of information on other people. There are information gathering abilities that are meant to do that, so to reveal a lot in a write up devalues the power those roles should have.

Likewise, you need to know in advance what is going to be in a write up. There shouldn't be things like "investigator X targets scum person Y" in a write up... the player knows they investigated someone, it's up to them to come forward with that result. If a write up is going to come out looking barren, then so be it. A write up isn't a bad one just because all it says is "gunman kills doctor".

An example... if you describe someone as "being thuggish" in a write up where they kill someone, that might not seem like anything. But if you have an information gathering role who gets info like "the person is thuggish" then you may just have linked a write up and some information together to make that person think they've found a killer. If that wasn't your intention, then you've just caused chaos in the middle of a game.

Now, this isn't meant to discourage creative and descriptive write ups, just to discourage revealing any information about the mechanics and characters involved. If you have an ongoing narrative about a town in a time of strife, then you reference that town and the things going on in it. But don't describe the doctor being targetted by a watcher being targetted by a tracker like...

"He done his rounds again, checking on the one patient in particular who wouldn't receive any other visitors that night. From a safe distance a man watched the house, unaware that he himself was being watched by the camoflagued man."

In that you get a ton of info... not just the doctor protecting someone but also that the other person wasn't targetted by anyone else. It tells the watcher AND the tracker who the doctor is too, which they shouldn't know as they aren't role cops (who would get that kind of info). The write up should be kept more sterile of player info but reveal more of the scenario...

"The town sunk furhter into anarchy and on this night there were figures hurrying around town, performing deeds that need done. Eyes and ears around the town tried to gather information to prevent another "mishap" from occurring in the town square but the troubles here could only be quenched with blood, and everyone knew more blood would be shed. With the darkness outside, only one man felt safe in his home though how long this feeling would last is yet to be seen."

This still references all the same people, but doesn't give anything away except that someone is being protected. Maybe. It avoids the falls of the previous post by not revealing who the doctor is nor referencing the people involved. At least, I believe it does. There are times that being more specific is required... like the town needing to know who has died and often how. Someone dying via gun shot, knife wounds or an explosion is the sort of info I'd expect to have. Afterall, it's hard to NOT know which of those methods killed someone. :p

KNOW YOUR PRIORITIES!

It might sound silly, but there is a sequence of abilities when they get used. Protection stops kills... roleblockers stop protectors... investigators go last... so when working out your write ups and who is going to do what, I recommend a little list of priorities like.

ROLEBLOCKERS
PROTECTORS
KILLS/PGO
MISC. (investigate, inventor gifts, whatever)
RECRUITMENT

There are always going to be special roles that need to get slotted in to other places, but ultimately the list will follow a format like that. Recruitment might go before investigations to allow a threat result on the night they are investigated, for example. But following a list like this can help to clear up tricky situations. Like... does a bus driver go before a roleblocker, thus making him unblockable? Might sound odd, but planning this sort of things is a HUGE benefit for the early nights when there are HUGE numbers of people still playing.

For example, in E-Ville both the cult and the masons were trying to recruit Outlaw, with a killer targetting the cult leader and an investigator targetting Outlaw (I think). It could've been a messy situation... but since I knew my priorities it was easy enough. :)

Anywho, I think that's all I can type for now since I'm getting tired and sorta rambling. Hopefully it's helpful advice for someone. :)

[Derek B]

Oh, deadlines! I wanted to mention those too!

1. Never move a deadline if you can help it. Moving it forward or backwards is going to be bad for someone... whether it be someone trying to hold on and avoid a last minute lynch or cutting off the time needed to send in a night PM, changing a deadline will always hurt someone even if you can't see how.

2. Timely write ups are essential to a good game. Final Fantasy was amazing for this and it's because of Shadowed writing things up as he went. It's the same system I used too, but if events are complicated you're probably better off waiting til deadline has been reached. Last minute PMs can change everything but getting a headstart if you can is never a bad thing as long as you are prepared to potentially need to start again.

Ideally mods would always be on for a deadline, but that can't always be possible. As long as they talk to each other, mods should be able to work out a good time for deadlines ahead of things happening. If a deadline is announced and no mod will be there for it, then any advanced warning that can be given SHOULD be given. Write ups can wait for a while and the warning is always good. Just remember to give long enough for the next phase. :)

[praguepride]

For write ups, remember

LESS IS MORE


If you insist on revealing clues about the players in your write ups be very aware of the kind of information you're revealing to your players. through write ups.

In fact, a good mod should re-read the write up looking for what kind of information that can be gleaned. What the killer looks like, what was he carrying, gender, hair color all that stuff. KNOW how much info you're putting out there.

As a player I can say nothing pisses me off then being outed by a mod. It happened in one game where I had an excellent fake claim of one gender but in the very first write up the mod cast me as a different one.

I seriously face palmed and threw up my hands saying "I'm screwed, the mod got me." And sure enough a player noticed and was like, Hey, PP claimed a dude but in the write up HERE he was a she. Let's lynch him.

So through no fault of my own, through no cleverness by town investigating me or catching me with the bloody knife in my hand, I was outed as scum. By the friggin' mod. :(

[mjdgoldeneye]

I'm lazy and didn't read the thread (:p), but I can say the key thing is to stop and think about each individual role once you're done writing them and ask:

1) What does this role need to do to win?

2) Can this role win by acting on its own or does it need luck?

3) Does the path of least resistance/the most likely method of success conflict with the spirit of the game?

4) Dies this character have any chance of living through late game shenanigans or meta gaming? (Meaning, are there alternate claims available? Can they get away with not claiming? Is claiming too easy/will it create a false "zone of believability"?)

These basically make sure you don't have any "Unnamed Villager" type roles that make the players with them feel like the tree in the grade-school play. Every role should feasibly have an opportunity, with other roles' help or on their own, to be effective.

Now, you can have a role that starts weak, but I've noticed it helps to give the controlling player some sort of hope out of the gate so you don't risk having them give up.

What I haven't seen many of are roles that start of godly and slowly weaken. They'd be interesting...

[praguepride]

Not to completely contradict mjd, but keep in mind that not everyone needs a power.

A "classic" mafia game has 1 doctor, 1 cop, 2 scum, and 5 vanilla townies. It's "classic" because it's a lot of fun. It relies more on your own ability as a player then dumb luck getting picked with power roles.

So not EVERY character needs to be super-amazing awesome. EVERY player, however, does deserve a chance to be useful and have the ability to win.

If you're playing a power heavy game, don't include vanilla characters. If you're playing a medium or light power game, it's fine to include vanilla characters.

Be creative though. Maybe you can have the "doctor" and "cop" role rotate between players after they use it. Maybe you have more doctors and cops but they only have 1-shot abilitys (i.e. they can only protect or investigate once).

[mjdgoldeneye]

KNOW YOUR PRIORITIES!

It might sound silly, but there is a sequence of abilities when they get used. Protection stops kills... roleblockers stop protectors... investigators go last... so when working out your write ups and who is going to do what, I recommend a little list of priorities like.

ROLEBLOCKERS
PROTECTORS
KILLS/PGO
MISC. (investigate, inventor gifts, whatever)
RECRUITMENT

There are always going to be special roles that need to get slotted in to other places, but ultimately the list will follow a format like that. Recruitment might go before investigations to allow a threat result on the night they are investigated, for example. But following a list like this can help to clear up tricky situations. Like... does a bus driver go before a roleblocker, thus making him unblockable? Might sound odd, but planning this sort of things is a HUGE benefit for the early nights when there are HUGE numbers of people still playing.

For example, in E-Ville both the cult and the masons were trying to recruit Outlaw, with a killer targetting the cult leader and an investigator targetting Outlaw (I think). It could've been a messy situation... but since I knew my priorities it was easy enough. :)

Anywho, I think that's all I can type for now since I'm getting tired and sorta rambling. Hopefully it's helpful advice for someone. :)

This is golden. As he said before this, too, you need to have the priorities handled before the game starts and have all contingencies covered to make sure people can make logical inferences based on what they've seen already. If you suddenly change the mechanics of a role, it can be a hugely crippling scenario because people all over the place will start making erroneous connections.

[ShadowedFlames]

Oh, deadlines! I wanted to mention those too!

1. Never move a deadline if you can help it. Moving it forward or backwards is going to be bad for someone... whether it be someone trying to hold on and avoid a last minute lynch or cutting off the time needed to send in a night PM, changing a deadline will always hurt someone even if you can't see how.

2. Timely write ups are essential to a good game. Final Fantasy was amazing for this and it's because of Shadowed writing things up as he went. It's the same system I used too, but if events are complicated you're probably better off waiting til deadline has been reached. Last minute PMs can change everything but getting a headstart if you can is never a bad thing as long as you are prepared to potentially need to start again.

Ideally mods would always be on for a deadline, but that can't always be possible. As long as they talk to each other, mods should be able to work out a good time for deadlines ahead of things happening. If a deadline is announced and no mod will be there for it, then any advanced warning that can be given SHOULD be given. Write ups can wait for a while and the warning is always good. Just remember to give long enough for the next phase. :)

You said it a lot better than I did, Derek.

Anyone who was here for Final Fantasy (or read along with the game) knows that the write-ups were the bane of that game. I ended up falling into the over-description trap, and that's another problem with theme games. If a mod runs a game based off a theme he/she knows incredibly well, they may be tempted to put additional stuff in there that either makes the write-up clear as day to interpret or will frustrate the players with red herrings. I freely admit that's what happened with that game.

Though I maintain the best part of that game was the fact that with three exceptions, write-ups were posted within 15 minutes of phase ending (and being at work caused those to happen). In a way, I think that helped to speed the game along--people knew when phases were going to end, and could count on a write-up appearing almost instantly.

In regards to prepping write-ups as phases progress: it's a double-edged sword. Yes, if things go well you can have phases posted immediately, but if someone sends in a PM with two minutes to go before deadline that forces more than half of it to be re-written, it can be frustrating for the mod. As Derek said, if you're willing to re-write the write-up from scratch, then give that a shot.

And do not get me (and like Anti) started on Video Game Mafia.... :p

Finally, when you're prepping for the game and working on role PM's: MAKE SURE YOUR INFORMATION IS CORRECT! I know this is going to sound bad on me, but when the discrepancy in my Sci Fi Chaos role came to light and the town basically said "eh, you're expendable because you're lying about such an established character," I basically gave up on the game. I still played to win, but I knew it was a lost cause because of a simple mistake that should have been caught in pre-game editing.

[mjdgoldeneye]

You just said what I did... :p

It's "classic" because it's a lot of fun. It relies more on your own ability as a player then dumb luck getting picked with power roles. So not EVERY character needs to be super-amazing awesome. EVERY player, however, does deserve a chance to be useful and have the ability to win.


2) Can this role win by acting on its own or does it need luck?

...

Every role should feasibly have an opportunity, with other roles' help or on their own, to be effective.

That's basically the same point!

[moon_lit_tears]

From a players point of view.

The write up can make or break a game. For me, Antis game was the first one that I actually took the time to read EVERY write up. I won't go as far as to say some write ups can be boring but more lack of interest.

The tricky part is finding a place that is not to giving or to deceiving. Also the time thing is a big turn off for players as well. I know that if I have to wait five hours to a write up I get blah and don't want to read it. If it happens due to issues uncontrolled like a certain mod posting a end phase when he had class. "cough cough" won't mention any names Astil.:D

It happens. The game can still go smooth and be great, like his game was. :) Just make sure its not a re-occurring thing.

Just giving my point of view not that its needed or wanted but figured I'de give it anyway.

[Antithesis]

I agree with everything said about write ups but would note, in a game like SIN or Lakeside, that basically starts in the dark, the mod has more leeway with descriptive write ups because it takes time to establish facts from the write up.

In SIN I never had to set up a priority because the town/game was never fully lit until just before the end.

I am not saying that if you want a complete list of actions and/or descriptive write ups you have to have a dark game as well, but if its more of a normal game incredible care has to be given the information you present.

Also, unless its a complete barebones game, even themeless games will have a "theme" of sorts. Eville, Lakeside and DUST were about the battle to towns from succumbing to or being defeated by dark forces. SIN was about revenge. If the game is going to have a narrative, its my belief the roles should flow that.

Try to keep it where the roles fit the logic of the narrative. One thing I regret about SIN was the role of John Doe, the Eville Survivor with the "ability" to find cultists in a game with no cult.

I had thought that maybe by including that role I could make people think there might be a cult in the game, the worst case would be a mislynch. But in actuality all it did was make one player (Shadowed with the John Doe role) waste his time looking for non existent culties and then get lynched for it.

Personally, I don't have a problem including lynch bait in games. But to be fair, the person with that role should at least know that they would be lynch bait. in Sci Fi Chaos I knew the moment I got the Gabriel Grey role that I would be lynched for ever admitting to it unless I spun it to make myself appear more valuable than I really was. But at least I could discern that from the role. In the case of John Doe, even his ability was a lie and useless to the town. That was grossly unfair and I caution any future mod that if you want lynch bait, at least give them some means of saving themselves, if not via an ability, then by the info-story they can share with the town. At least then their survival comes down to their ability to convince other people.

[ShadowedFlames]

Just when I had finally put that out of my mind, too... :(

[The Two]

Never modded a game, but as a player I agree entirely with what has been said about not making write-ups too descriptive.

Too many times I've been done in as scum by a write-up which essentially says, "Watcher / Roleblocker / Tracker targets EVIL MAFIA PSYCHO KILLER." Good luck talking your way out of that one :)


Also, on deadlines, I agree that deadlines should never be moved; but while everybody has been talking about the importance of timely write-ups, one thing which hasn't been discussed is what should be done when that isn't possible.

I'm of the belief that in those circumstances the Mod must use time-stamps to ensure that if the deadline is 6pm, a vote cast at 5:59pm counts, and one cast at 6pm does not. Doesn't matter if the Mod doesn't get online until 3pm the next day, the deadline expired at 6pm.

[moon_lit_tears]

Never modded a game, but as a player I agree entirely with what has been said about not making write-ups too descriptive.

Too many times I've been done in as scum by a write-up which essentially says, "Watcher / Roleblocker / Tracker targets EVIL MAFIA PSYCHO KILLER." Good luck talking your way out of that one :)


Also, on deadlines, I agree that deadlines should never be moved; but while everybody has been talking about the importance of timely write-ups, one thing which hasn't been discussed is what should be done when that isn't possible.

I'm of the belief that in those circumstances the Mod must use time-stamps to ensure that if the deadline is 6pm, a vote cast at 5:59pm counts, and one cast at 6pm does not. Doesn't matter if the Mod doesn't get online until 3pm the next day, the deadline expired at 6pm.

As a player I think the deadline is a speak for its self deal. If it says phase ends at 6pm no vote after that would count. So yeah I agree with you on that one.

I would seriously have to find where the mod lives and strangle them if they waited until 3pm the following day for a write up. When I get into a game a move like that really takes me away and makes me want to not play. :p

[moon_lit_tears]

One other point. Yeah I know I am talking to much like normal.

When giving roles. PLEASE make sure the role is clear on what you NEED to do and WHEN you need to do it. Don't leave it open to different point of views. That can cause a lynch or an annoyed player who will well act like me. :D:p

[Destiny]

Thanks guys. Granted I am pretty battered at the moment but these are still valid points.

[moon_lit_tears]

Thanks guys. Granted I am pretty battered at the moment but these are still valid points.

Take a deep breath, tell Self to give you a back rub, :D and you will be fine. This is your first modding game you will be fine. No game has run perfect that I am aware of.

[eayragt]

I'm of the belief that in those circumstances the Mod must use time-stamps to ensure that if the deadline is 6pm, a vote cast at 5:59pm counts, and one cast at 6pm does not. Doesn't matter if the Mod doesn't get online until 3pm the next day, the deadline expired at 6pm.

I know we've had an argument about this before, but I agree with you. However, it's key to be able to tell the time properly. That may sound condascending but in almost every game I played in the summer GMT was quoted incorrectly instead of BST. It may be picking holes, and 29 out of the 30 people may know what is meant by the deadline, but if one person thinks there's an extra hour to hammer and is not given the opportunity, then something as simple as this could matter.

Fortunately , we've got another 5 months until the clocks change and we have to worry about that again. If in doubt, use this website:

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/

[cyberkitten01]

Great thread guys. Glad I gave it a read

I'll be taking your comments about writeups to heart, and hope it gives hints to the actions but not the players

I did some research on mafiascum.net when I was helping hubby put together his game, and spotted a lot of roles that I've not seen used much and a bit of explanation behind other interesting roles. I'm hoping my game will be a bit different than a lot of GDS mafia, while being a nice new challenge.

One of the biggest helps this thread has given me is the Priority List. I hadn't considered that before, and I totally agree that consistency is #1 factor to not annoying your players

[Slim Jim]

One thing I've always done is put myself into the shoes of the person getting each role. When playing, I naturally tend to question every role I get, poke holes in it, see how much I can do with it, and so on... and then I'll usually judge whether I like it or not. So when modding, I like to imagine how I'd react to each role I've written, and if I find MYSELF asking questions, then chances are someone else will have even more.

I know that sounds really obvious but I've run four games elsewhere. The first was a good game for a first try with 100% inexperienced roster of players, the second I think was beautifully set-up because I spent my entire time on the waiting list planning, tinkering, and fine-tuning [only for the players to then make it go a little one-sided since all the different scum managed to implode], the third was much like the first but a little more refined and sleak... and the final one was a bit of a letdown. Now, the first and third, I wrote pretty comfortably for time and planned out nicely, and they worked as they should. The second, I spent aaaaages crafting it, putting myself into each role, running through different potential scenarios, cleaning up role PMs and adding entire backstories for each character for those unfamiliar with the theme... but the last one, I rushed into it because another game died midway through and it had to be started at short notice. Add to that I was trying to introduce Warring Families and Dark write-ups at the same time, and while it wasn't a bad game, it really didn't achieve what I hoped. Anyway, the point is... the more you put in, the more you'll get out. If you are just really eager to run a game and try to finish it all up ASAP because you think there's a quick jump coming up, the rush will show but if you take your time, then no doubt the game will be better for it.

Hmm, that was a bit of a ramble.

I'll weigh in with my view on write-ups. I try to be vague but never deliberately misleading, and I've tried in different games including all night actions and in others just including those that were needed. For example, if a doctor protects someone that isn't attacked, it wouldn't get included in the second type. I'm not really sure which I prefer yet, just as long as it's never obvious what is happening.

As for roles, like most people I like to put a different twist on things, throw in something unexpected but generally, I quite like simplistic set-ups because it brings out better play, in my opinion. I've found that when you try to do too much, there's a hell of a lot more that can and probably will go wrong.

[cyberkitten01]

Very nice post SJ. It probably seems like I've had no time at all to put my game together, but to my benefit I tend to get a bit obsessive over creative projects. My job isn't a particularly exciting one, and so I can pretty much do it half-asleep (and often do!) which gives me a lot of time to think.

I've been writing an entire comic in my head for the last year. Getting it down on paper is the tricky thing, but a Mafia game is far less demanding. So the past week, all I've thought about is the plot behind my game :)

[lprock]

Slim Jim is my role model for modding games, he's so precious.

[praguepride]

Here's my thoughts on an important subject:

Posting Restrictions/Silencers?

The short answer is: don't ever include these kinds of roles. Basically it ruins the fun of the game for the player who can no longer participate AND for the rest of the town who are probably already frustrated with the number of players who actively choose not to post, let alone the people forced to not post.

This isn't a face-to-face game. If someone can't post, they can't play, end of story.

[bak42]

Here's my thoughts on an important subject:

Posting Restrictions/Silencers?

The short answer is: don't ever include these kinds of roles. Basically it ruins the fun of the game for the player who can no longer participate AND for the rest of the town who are probably already frustrated with the number of players who actively choose not to post, let alone the people forced to not post.

This isn't a face-to-face game. If someone can't post, they can't play, end of story.

Not always, I had a post restriction back in Recess mafia where I couldn't post at night.

[praguepride]

That's why I said "short answer"

Night phase isn't nearly as bad considering it's usually off-topic posts (but not always).

The day phase is where it's at and you should be very very careful that someone who can't participate during the day phase can still participate through other means during the day phase.

[The Shape]

Nothing wrong with silencers. Stuff that takes people out permanently is gay, but on a temp basis it's nice for tactics and stuff.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Silencers are generally part of the game material tbh, and even posting restrictions to a certain point. As long as obviously things don't go overboard and such, generally as Shape says those things are quite tactical. Such as scum who knows a certain townie has his hands on substantial info, they'll target him for a shushin' until they figure out what to do/pending further action towards him.

Posting restrictions *generally* come with an upside(common upside though), there are the few cases where it isn't the case because it's character-based. Somehow though, I think restrictions can bring out the best in most players - they'll read more and scrutinize throughout posts more before asserting their thoughts into big posts.

A simple advice I would keep when it comes to modding is to generally keep things balanced. Give the scum at least a decent chance to win, same as the town. There are such things as making either side overpowered, so it's always best to be careful with that. And please, don't make groups for the sake of mechanism, with little consideration towards the group in question. An example is a game I've played on Neo where I was in a three-man secondary mafia group. I was the don, and my partners were a hitman.. and a vanilla. And apparently, we also had to outnumber the town. If that wasn't enough, I didn't even show up as town - so what was my purpose? I have no idea, probably just taking the mantle if the hitman died. There was literally no upside to our group, so obviously I got investigated red and busted, and the two others went along shortly after. It pretty much seemed like our only purpose in the game was to be an extra night kill in the night phases. Just remember to keep things balanced. Give every side a fighting chance, without making things too extravagant.

[praguepride]

We'll wait and see how people feel when Buffy is over because from my observation that game has been post-restriction-tastic.

My main point is that posting restrictions from a players perspective aren't fun. There are NUMEROUS other powers that you can choose from that are at least fun in their own way, but being told that you can't post in an internet forum game is not fun.

I bring it up now because there's growing concerns that inactivity will destroy a game (where town becomes inactive enough that scum just win because a lynch can never be achieved) and what better way to encourage people to speak and participate then to tell someone that they can't talk through no fault in their own.

I feel strongly enough about this that if I were to ever get a post restriction role again, I'd immediately ask to be replaced. I did not enjoy it at all and I feel it completely ruined the game for me.

The issue with Silencers is that someone could potentially pick on the same person over and over and over again, basically forcing a posting restriction on someone against their will.

Preventing or limiting people from posting is metagaming. Why not add a role that says "so-and-so can't log onto the forums anymore" ;)

Anyway, I have yet to hear someone having a posting restriction say that they enjoyed it. I remember how Crychon was irritated with his numerous posting restrictions. Only being allowed one post in SFC killed the game for him, and even in Dust where he was only allowed to post in the "twilight" of things due to being a vampire was difficult because those were bad times for him to post and basically he sat that game out as well.

[auditte09]

after realizing today that elads thread was a closed and i missed a whole other mafia game i for sure want to join this one

any number would be great please

[Destiny]

This isn't actually a sign-up thread. The next game will likely take place in the New Year.

[moon_lit_tears]

after realizing today that elads thread was a closed and i missed a whole other mafia game i for sure want to join this one

any number would be great please


You are more then welcome to join the next one.

It will not start until after the new year. The game will be Pokemon. Hope you will join us and have fun it it.

[Destiny]

I do wish I could have used my ability to better help the town, but I xo remember contributing in the thread.

[djthefunkchris]

I do wish I could have used my ability to better help the town, but I xo remember contributing in the thread.

I can't seem to find the buffy game you just modded, is it over?

[eayragt]

I can't seem to find the buffy game you just modded, is it over?

As of posting this it's 11th on thread down, and finished.

We didn't win.

[moon_lit_tears]

I can't seem to find the buffy game you just modded, is it over?

As of posting this it's 11th on thread down, and finished.

We didn't win.


There is also a link to the game on the Scummies page.

[Destiny]

The game is indeed over. I hope you enjoyed playing djthefunkchris, although I seem to remember you getting lynched.

[eayragt]

Yet to mod a game, but from my observations two points about roles that seem to be in most large games:

Cults / Changing alignments:

Think hard before putting in Cults or Changing alignments. Putting either in often forces you to be a little more descriptive in write-ups. However, descriptive write-ups can lead to all / most roles being revealed in a write-up, leaving it impossible to fake claim. If there’s a scum group who can’t recruit, they’re job could made a lot more difficult by accommodating a Cult. There are ways of making this work, but putting in a Cult certainly has consequences on the whole game that need to be considered.

PGO:

Again, think before you put in a PGO. It’s simple role, but one that can swing a game one way or another very quickly – and very randomly. As such it can knock out two (or more) power townies, or two (or more) non-townies very early on, turning a finely balanced game into a game where one side has a huge advantage, without really doing anything to gain this advantage. More often than not it’ll end up balanced, and will work out fine, but there is this inherent risk involved.

[Astil]

Vote: Mr T Jobs To Me

[moon_lit_tears]

Vote: Mr T Jobs To Me

Holly hell look who's here.

[ShadowedFlames]

I put the one I made for Pokemon Mafia in that thread; however here's the "base" sheet I started from. This is basically just the "Voting Sheet" with two blank worksheets for notes that the mods can fill in on their own.

Excel/OpenOffice/Quattro is required. I do not recommend GoogleDocs as the formulas for the voting sheet do not carry over on a cut-and-paste and it's frustrating having to re-do everything by hand.

[masterded]

Just bumping this.