The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[The Shape]

And how do you know this?

edit; saw the story, though it said it's happened before with people who weren't on the brand by the time the promos aired. Still, they seem like likely candidates.

[b0shey]

http://www.wzronline.com/wrestling-news/photo-lance-archer-has-a-new-look.html

The new Mike Knox?

[fatallylost]

http://www.wzronline.com/wrestling-news/photo-lance-archer-has-a-new-look.html

The new Mike Knox?

You sayin Archer will be fired next?

:: rim shot ::

[b0shey]

You sayin Archer will be fired next?

:: rim shot ::

More like the next monster since he's sporting a big beard... surprise he has lasted that long usually tna stars dont last long in WWE.

[fatallylost]

More like the next monster since he's sporting a big beard... surprise he has lasted that long usually tna stars dont last long in WWE.

Yeah. Maybe him not being on TV.. really.. has helped? Seems like that would hurt.

Also, anyone else surprised the World Title match was so early on the PPV?

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Duck tape? seriously?

Good spot but use something better than duck tape. Like a rope or handcuffs or something.

[Bigpapa42]

Duck tape? seriously?

Good spot but use something better than duck tape. Like a rope or handcuffs or something.

Actually duct tape makes more sense than either rope or handcuffs. Its something that makes sense to be available at ringside (especially being dumped out of the toolbox) and its easier than trying to tie up with rope.

[MrCanada]

I'm more interested in the expansion of the SES.

I believe the returning guy was Joey Mercury, and one would assume WWE is going to change his name, ala Johnny Nitro to John Morrison. And he's a darn okay worker.

Now just need to add someone else and you have the Four Horsemen, but straight edge.

Punk - Flair
Gallows - Anderson
Mercury - Tully
Serena - JJ Dillon
Darren Young maybe? - the Windham/fourth guy who was never as important.

[Stennick]

The Four Horesmen were actually good though. Gallows isn't that great, Young isn't that great.

Evolution was a lot more like the Horseman than these guys as far as talented guys banding together.

This is more about Punk using weaker minded individuals to further his own gain.

The horsemen were a team all for one and one for all, this is more like CM Punk and his merry band of lackeys.

[fatallylost]

I love the straight edge society and all (I'm a sucker for a decent stable) but, shouldn't Gallows have, I dunno, a win or two over someone? I'm not counting rooks and local guys. He's big, supposed to be bad ass, but, can't seem to do anything. That's what I hate. Also, why not let Serena start a run for the Women's belt? At least get some matches in. These things just always baffle me.

[Fleisch]

The Four Horesmen were actually good though. Gallows isn't that great, Young isn't that great.

Evolution was a lot more like the Horseman than these guys as far as talented guys banding together.

This is more about Punk using weaker minded individuals to further his own gain.

The horsemen were a team all for one and one for all, this is more like CM Punk and his merry band of lackeys.

Gallows is what 25? He has plenty of time to improve, and I think he will. I agree though that Evolution was alot more like The Horsemen. SES are not really like any faction from the past - well The Ministry I suppose as far as using weaker minded wrestlers to do one persons bidding but even then not a great deal like them.

[Stennick]

I'm not saying Gallows will never improve but by the time Anderson was in the four horeseman he was a world class wrestler, part of one of the top tag teams in the business and a world tag team champion. The horseman was more about bringing together the four absolute best wrestlers (heel) at the time and just flaunting their women and money in everyone's faces while coming together as a unit to make sure they stayed on top keeping the money and women.

Gallows isn't at that level yet and is likely quite a far bit off of it. I would most liken SES to the Ministry in that their mostly lackeys who do Punks bidding and don't wrestle or win for that matter too much.

I like the stable and atleast it keeps them doing something rather than just sitting in developmental or being released.

[Self]

Maybe the draft will free up some room for Serena to get involved with the Women's Division. The Smackdown scene has plenty of heels (Layla & Michelle are doing fine) but bugger all babyfaces (Beth... Natalya?) but if you throw a Kelly Kelly or the Bella's on Tuesdays it would give her someone to fight.

[Stennick]

If their throwing the Bellas or Kelly Kelly on SD for her to fight then I'd really rather she not wrestle at all :D

[dvdWarrior]

But if the Bellas are moved to SmackDown!, then who'll hang out with the guest hosts every week? Besides Santino that is.

:)

[Hyde Hill]

More hornswaggle!

[eayragt]

First PPV I've watched for literally years. My thoughts:

Tag Team Gauntlet: Well, the result of this was obvious from the moment the match begun. Not bad for what it was, but how embarassed must the ref have been from having to DQ someone at Extreme Rules. Embarrassed enough to not DQ ShowMiz for the next fall, despite watching the interference. Hart Dynasty to win tomorrow (and it had better be clean, as they've already got a tainted victory)

Hair vs ... er, nothing: Extreme Rules, where every match is extreme. Except this one. And the one before. Is was looking forward to this match, but it didn't quite live up to expectations. Mercury doesn't exactly bring someone with too much legitmacy to the SES. Mysterio needs a heel run.

Strap match: My one wrong predo - and the match most helped by the Special Rules, with the crowd only popping when the strap was used. I'm sure Shad will get a rematch win in theh next couple of weeks - wouldn't be too surprised to see it tonight before a move to RAW. JTG to be gone (again) in a year.

Swagger vs Orton: Was this really the slowest, dullest match ever (okay, not ever, I exaggerate)? Either the feed or my satellite started cutting out on this one, so I fast forwarded over a couple of minutes. Didn't miss anything.

Street Fight: Predicting against Triple H is always dangerous, but the opening segment gave him an excuse to lose. Whenever he's back he'll defeat Sheamus, and then probably get a Title run (assuming he doesn't just win it off Sheamus). Perfectly good Street Fight.

Women's match: With Mickie gone Beth makes the obvious champion. Highlight of the match - ironing board jokes. Until Cole took it too far when Michelle tried to use the iron. And why the hell did Vickie hand onto the plug?

Steel Cage: They let Jericho have too many near escapes, that seemed to slow down the momentum of the match. I see Edge moving over to RAW after this one.

Last Man Standing: Well, there was hate for Cena, but he by far and away got the biggest pop of the night - and Batista got the loudest heel heat. Sorry, for anyone thinking these two shouldn't be in the Main Event, they're wrong. The industry's about money, not talent. Slow at the beginning (what was with testing the ten count early in situations they would have never even tried a pin in a normal match?), but it actually got going well towards the end. The finish made more sense than handcuffs, although Cena's ability to tear to duct tape slowed the end down a little too much.

Overall, not bad - but considering there were four WrestleMania rematches, perhaps "average" was not the result that WWE should have been aiming for. Although maybe that was the overuse of gimmick matches, something I've never liked.

And I didn't realise how good a colour commentator Matt Striker was, but he was form last night. And it's nice to see that WWE's tag team division is as strong as ever.

So, draft predicitons - some women to move around. Edge and Shad to RAW, Swagger to Smackdown, along with one of Legacy. Perhaps Kofi too - he's hit a glass ceiling on RAW.

[Linsolv]

Perhaps Kofi too - he's hit a glass ceiling on RAW.

Only in the WWE would someone be declared to have gone far enough with the A show, and if you want him to really make improvements he'll have to be moved to the B show.

[crownsy]

Well, i don't think it's a glass ceiling so much as he needs a fresh start.

The E clearly wants to push him, and i love kofi, but man, it's been awhile since i've seen a guy get handed the ball and fumble it as badly as kofi did at the end of the orton fued.

It was, granted, extremely unprofessional of orton to scream "STUPID! STUPID!" at him on that raw where kofi botched the finsh for the second week in a row, but when you add those two raw M/E matches to the disappointing botchy PPV performance the month before, i can see why they put him on hold after orton.

I mean, as much as I criticize WWE's Booking, i really can't argue with them putting a hold on his push when his works was as botchtacular as that last month was.

Dunno if the pressure got to him or what, but he really turned in some spotty performances as that fued was winding down. He needs to go to smackdown not to get out from under some glass ceiling but to get a new fued for himself and recapture what he had during the hieght of the orton fued before his ring work went to crap.

Smackdown's taped nature may also help him assimilate into a higher role on the card. If it was nerves that led to his sloppy ring work on raw, being taped instead of live can only help him overcome that and get comfortable with the spotlight on him. and, if he makes one of the glaring botches he made during finshes on the raw matches, they can edit it out.

Heck, even punk, a much, much better and more consistent worker in ring than kofi, used that perk about what, a month ago according to the rumor sites when he botched the GTS live? yea for tape delay and editing:D!

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Actually duct tape makes more sense than either rope or handcuffs. Its something that makes sense to be available at ringside (especially being dumped out of the toolbox) and its easier than trying to tie up with rope.

I suppose it does, but you could have just said that Cena planted something there with that finish in mind.

My problem with duct tape is that it looked like Batista could break the tape fairly easily.

[crownsy]

depends on the tape. If it was like, the gorilla brand of duct tape and cena wrapped enough around, good luck breaking that junk.

Not that i've ever ducktaped anyone to something or anything :cool:

[The Shape]

Swagger vs Orton: Was this really the slowest, dullest match ever (okay, not ever, I exaggerate)? Either the feed or my satellite started cutting out on this one, so I fast forwarded over a couple of minutes. Didn't miss anything

I personally enjoyed it. It made sense to go with the story of swagger wanting it in the ring and Orton outside, could maybe have done more with it but still it was good for where it was on the card, and a lot of what the announcers said about swagger combined with his win really furthered him; the stuff about him taking too much time, taking himself too seriously, having lost recently but doing it when it counts...I dig that.

In fact the commentary as a whole I enjoyed more than I have in a while lol, when there's three of them it's much better than any combination of two.

[crownsy]

I thought it was yet another good, high level match by swagger. He's certainly rewarded their faith in him in-ring wise. Needs to work on his promo's, but i like him as champ so far. hope they give him a few more PPV's before giving it back to another guy ( most likely orton, as it's looking now)

Still not sold completely, but he's getting there with me. Way more than drew or shemus did in there "Lets push the new guys" mandate.

[mike b]

Hey is it true Batista might be leaving the WWE or has wrestled his final ppv

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Hey is it true Batista might be leaving the WWE or has wrestled his final ppv

We'll find out tonight I'd say.

[crownsy]

Hey is it true Batista might be leaving the WWE or has wrestled his final ppv

One can dream.

Though his recent gimmick is by far his best work in the WWE....not that it's saying much.

Overall, i won't be sorry to see roidtista go. He's 40 and (to me) very one dimiensional and uninteresting.

I personally will be happy to see him out of the WWE main event. that's just me though, personal preference for sure.

[shawn michaels 82]

Well, i don't think it's a glass ceiling so much as he needs a fresh start.

The E clearly wants to push him, and i love kofi, but man, it's been awhile since i've seen a guy get handed the ball and fumble it as badly as kofi did at the end of the orton fued.

It was, granted, extremely unprofessional of orton to scream "STUPID! STUPID!" at him on that raw where kofi botched the finsh for the second week in a row, but when you add those two raw M/E matches to the disappointing botchy PPV performance the month before, i can see why they put him on hold after orton.

I mean, as much as I criticize WWE's Booking, i really can't argue with them putting a hold on his push when his works was as botchtacular as that last month was.

Dunno if the pressure got to him or what, but he really turned in some spotty performances as that fued was winding down. He needs to go to smackdown not to get out from under some glass ceiling but to get a new fued for himself and recapture what he had during the hieght of the orton fued before his ring work went to crap.

Smackdown's taped nature may also help him assimilate into a higher role on the card. If it was nerves that led to his sloppy ring work on raw, being taped instead of live can only help him overcome that and get comfortable with the spotlight on him. and, if he makes one of the glaring botches he made during finshes on the raw matches, they can edit it out.

Heck, even punk, a much, much better and more consistent worker in ring than kofi, used that perk about what, a month ago according to the rumor sites when he botched the GTS live? yea for tape delay and editing:D!

I remember missing out most of that month. I wasn't exactly a regular viewer of the wwe anymore then. (Still haven't returned to regular viewer status yet) But i always wondererd why they cancelled his push. Can someone give me a detailed explanation on that whole Kofi situation and to what happened back then?

[Stennick]

Batista is supposed to atleast work through the next pay per view to give the "character" a proper conclusion.

[crownsy]

I remember missing out most of that month. I wasn't exactly a regular viewer of the wwe anymore then. (Still haven't returned to regular viewer status yet) But i always wondererd why they cancelled his push. Can someone give me a detailed explanation on that whole Kofi situation and to what happened back then?

I'll drag up the orton youtube clip when i get home, but it was really that simple. Kofi had a solid month where his ring work went to ****.

Who knows why, but he just looked lost in those last few matches with orton, culminating in the "stupid" incident. a quick run down of it is that randy clearly was going to do the stalk for the punt move, but kofi bounced right up off the interference bump that put him down by dibiase? i think it was ted anyway, could have been cody...

Randy then kinda shoved him down (it was clear kofi wanted to trade punches at the time, and randy was trying to do the finsh) and went for the "stalking" taunt before the RKO. Kofi again bounced right up to trade punches. orton gave him a "are you serious?" look, then gut kicked him and rko'd him.

Rather than pin him, orton jumped up and yelled "STUPID" twice then pinned him. after the three count camera's cought him mouthing "what the blank was that" and shaking his head.

Rumor sites picked up that kofi completely forgot the finish, which was supposed to be, according to the dirt sheets anyway, a punt off the interference to do the always popular "randy kicked me i'm out 2 shows then im back like a house of fire on randy's behind" approved storyline extender :D

Since then, seems like they put him on hold. dunno if wwe was just tired of his ring work for that month and that was the straw that broke the camels back or what, but that pretty much killed that fued dead.

[shawn michaels 82]

I'll drag up the orton youtube clip when i get home, but it was really that simple. Kofi had a solid month where his ring work went to ****.

Who knows why, but he just looked lost in those last few matches with orton, culminating in the "stupid" incident. a quick run down of it is that randy clearly was going to do the stalk for the punt move, but kofi bounced right up off the interference bump that put him down by dibiase? i think it was ted anyway, could have been cody...

Randy then kinda shoved him down (it was clear kofi wanted to trade punches at the time, and randy was trying to do the finsh) and went for the "stalking" taunt before the RKO. Kofi again bounced right up to trade punches. orton gave him a "are you serious?" look, then gut kicked him and rko'd him.

Rather than pin him, orton jumped up and yelled "STUPID" twice then pinned him. after the three count camera's cought him mouthing "what the blank was that" and shaking his head.

Rumor sites picked up that kofi completely forgot the finish, which was supposed to be, according to the dirt sheets anyway, a punt off the interference to do the always popular "randy kicked me i'm out 2 shows then im back like a house of fire on randy's behind" approved storyline extender :D

Since then, seems like they put him on hold. dunno if wwe was just tired of his ring work for that month and that was the straw that broke the camels back or what, but that pretty much killed that fued dead.

OMG. Orton really needs to do anger management therapy...or leave drugs. :D
As for Kofi...i don't know why some people dig him...i can live pretty well without him.
Thanks for the explanation.

[crownsy]

OMG. Orton really needs to do anger management therapy...or leave drugs. :D
As for Kofi...i don't know why some people dig him...i can live preaty well without him. Thanks for the explanation.

I say anger managment...the funny part is i've always heard that randy's drug of choice is the sticky icky, and as someone who smokes every once in awhile, i've never known it to promote anything like anger.

Unless it's anger based upon no skill moron's care package glitching in MW2...i've gotten pretty fired up for that even blazed :D

Anyone watching the draft btw? i'm stuck at school, love to know whats going on.

[mike b]

Batista is supposed to atleast work through the next pay per view to give the "character" a proper conclusion.

So the big guy gonna be hanging it up then

[shawn michaels 82]

So the big guy gonna be hanging it up then

Thank God. I for sure won't miss him.

[shawn michaels 82]

It looks like JR is can really head to TNA. he denied it several times in a tone that implied something like "I will not leave the WWE" and now he clearly changed that tone. here are some things he said on his blog: (source: Wrestling Exposed)

"Jim Ross has updated the Q&A section of his website JRsBarBQ.com with some commentary on a variety of topics. Ross' WWE contract expires at the end of this month and its been widely reported that there is strong interest from TNA Wrestling if Ross and WWE are unable to come to terms. Here are some Q&A highlights of what he said about:

Possibly Going To TNA: "I am a fan of TNA and hope that they become successful and earn better TV ratings. Where I may or may not fit into their plans is TBD. I do have several outside of wrestling options that interest me but I haven't lost my passion for pro wrestling either. I think it is good to have options. If TNA and us begin negotiations in earnest then both parties will actually know what the other wants or needs to make a potential deal work. That time hasn't come."

TNA Hiring A Firm To Analyze Their Audience: "I'm not sure about the consulting matter as I have seen some research projects work well and some waste time and money. I'm not in that loop nor am I informed of the research in which they are doing. If the research was done in Philly then having the ECW brand still have equity doesn't surprise me."

Paul Heyman Going To TNA?: "Paul Heyman doesn't seem interested in getting back into wrestling or so I hear. I guess time will tell. Bottom line is that for the pat 36 years I have been a total team player and don't plan on changing my philosophy any time soon. If I commit to any entity they will get all that I have to offer, in or out of pro wrestling.""

[jjohns44]

wow, they actually don't have a gimmicky pay per view next month?

[Jaysin]

WOW! An entertaining segment on WWE programming. I never thought I'd see that day again.

In case you're wondering, I'm referring to the Dibiase/Truth segment. Virgil hahahahaha

[b0shey]

Man Smackdown got butchered

WWE RAW DRAFT TRADES:

-- Kelly Kelly To SmackDown!
-- The Big Show To SmackDown!
-- Kofi Kingston To SmackDown!
-- Christian To SmackDown!

WWE SMACKDOWN! DRAFT TRADES:

-- John Morrison To RAW
-- R-Truth To RAW
-- Edge To RAW
-- Chris Jericho To RAW

[Tha Black Phenom]

They sure did. Really gutted they're keeping the infernal trio on Raw(Orton, HHH, Cena) and then slapping Edge and Jericho in there. I mean sure H is taking a break and Batista is hanging up his boots but once H comes back it's gonna be nothing but a cluster**** once again.

[alden]

will be intresting who gets drafted in the "suplimental" draft. I see a few divas getting drafted to smack down.

[fatallylost]

What a way to kill my excitement over the Edge & Christian reunion.

[shawn michaels 82]

Man Smackdown got butchered

WWE RAW DRAFT TRADES:

-- Kelly Kelly To SmackDown!
-- The Big Show To SmackDown!
-- Kofi Kingston To SmackDown!
-- Christian To SmackDown!

WWE SMACKDOWN! DRAFT TRADES:

-- John Morrison To RAW
-- R-Truth To RAW
-- Edge To RAW
-- Chris Jericho To RAW


There's only one thing worse then having a B show moving into a B network. And that thing is a B show moving into a B network with a B roster! Ai Ai Ai!

[fatallylost]

My favorite segments on Raw are always the Evan Bourne vs. The Man Who Will Pin Bourne This Week.

[ampulator]

*groan* This really kills the incentive to watch WWE even more.

[angeldelayette]

Man Smackdown got butchered

WWE RAW DRAFT TRADES:

-- Kelly Kelly To SmackDown!
-- The Big Show To SmackDown!
-- Kofi Kingston To SmackDown!
-- Christian To SmackDown!

WWE SMACKDOWN! DRAFT TRADES:

-- John Morrison To RAW
-- R-Truth To RAW
-- Edge To RAW
-- Chris Jericho To RAW

Well, at least I might get to see Kelly Kelly, The Big Show and Christian when I go to a Smackdown house show next week.

[Stennick]

So who are SD's biggest stars right now. Punk, Rey, Taker.....with both Edge and Jericho gone I guess Big Show gets put in there but he seems to be a face for the moment so who's the number two heel on SD now? Swagger I guess and then Cody Rhodes

[fatallylost]

So who are SD's biggest stars right now. Punk, Rey, Taker.....with both Edge and Jericho gone I guess Big Show gets put in there but he seems to be a face for the moment so who's the number two heel on SD now? Swagger I guess and then Cody Rhodes

Cody's still on Raw.

At least until tomorrow afternoon.

[Tha Black Phenom]

The only good thing about this is Christian may be elevated to main-event status here or at least float around it.

[Moe Hunter]

Smackdown's coming to NZ this year. I said to myself I would love to go... except I couldn't see the following four all surviving the draft:

Edge
Jericho
Morrison
Punk

Looks like I was right. Damn them all to hell!

[Self]

Bad news for Truth & Morrison. They've sort of been stuck under Edge & Jericho's glass ceiling on Smackdown, and now they're still under that, and under Cena, Orton, Triple H, Batista. The new MVP's I'd bet.

As a guy who watches RAW maybe once every couple of months (bad timeslot) but every single Smackdown, this sorta sucks for me. 3 of my favourite guys are off the show. I guess there's going to be some room on top for midcarders to step up to the plate, so I'll wait and see who before being too bummed out.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep Smackdown was the only E tv show I would more regularely tune into and now they have been gutted to hell. Be interesting to see who will step up but for now my interest has totally waned.

[The Shape]

I'll reserve final judgement till the supplemental thing is done but that was just awful. I can't imagine them making Raw any less appealing. The main event looked alright but by that point I was so disappointed with the draft I barely paid attention. Jericho moving was the real kicker, just when I thought Edge was going to get away from him and be entertaining again.

Maybe I expected a bit too much from it, but really, when they hype up how big a shake up it is and yet nothing comes out of it looking at all interesting...blah. Good thing it's reached a time of year when I won't be watching for a few weeks anyway :o

I'm not really worried for Smackdown though. If anything it could be better with Edge and Jericho gone, new people could potentially step up (which makes Morrison's move even more baffling). Thing is with Swagger as champ, matches like him vs. Show and him vs. Rey wouldn't be terrible but as feuds I really wouldn't bother tuning in.

With that being said I did love the DiBiase/Truth segment.

[UkWrestleFan]

Can't say I'm surprised to see the RAW roster stacked with the top stars, especially with HBK retiring, Batista apparantely calling it a day and Triple H taking time off. What confused me the most is the dispositions of Edge & Randy Orton.

Orton is face at the moment, cementing that by interupting Sheamus who is riding a ton of heel heat at the moment. Then Edge gets thrown into the mix, a fully fledged babyface right now, and attacks Orton, the man who interupted Sheamus who everybody hates after what he did to Triple H? I dunno, maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

Looks like Morrisson & R-Truth are going to be pushed more as a tag-team. Unless, Morrisson turns heel again and re-united with The Miz. Definitely interesting.

Rather than worry me, SmackDown actually interests me. It's a fresh Main-Event scene which I hope will consist of:

Jack Swagger
CM Punk
Big Show

The Undertaker
Christian
Rey Mysterio

I think there could be some good matches/feuds there. Swagger vs Christian would be pretty good, I think. Both are good in the ring, Christian is golden on the mic and Swagger could really benefit in-terms of promos from feuding with him.

And then there's Kofi. Hopefully he'll shine on SmackDown and get a push into the Main Event. The stuff with Orton last year where he went nuts and smashed his car up really got me interested in Kofi and I was gutted when they halted his push.

All in all, an interesting draft.

[Hyde Hill]

Christian and Swagger had quite a decent feud on ECW when Chrisitian came in, so it could be good. Still Smackdown looks a lot weaker and I don't like the RAW format so I am not happy.

[BurningHamster]

Smackdown's coming to NZ this year. I said to myself I would love to go... except I couldn't see the following four all surviving the draft:

Edge
Jericho
Morrison
Punk

Looks like I was right. Damn them all to hell!

I got given tickets for when they come out to Australia ... I knew not all those guys would survive but my deal breaker was Punk. If he got traded those tickets would be on ebay so freakin' fast.

Looks like I am still going at this point though.

[The Shape]

Can't say I'm surprised to see the RAW roster stacked with the top stars, especially with HBK retiring, Batista apparantely calling it a day and Triple H taking time off. What confused me the most is the dispositions of Edge & Randy Orton.

Orton is face at the moment, cementing that by interupting Sheamus who is riding a ton of heel heat at the moment. Then Edge gets thrown into the mix, a fully fledged babyface right now, and attacks Orton, the man who interupted Sheamus who everybody hates after what he did to Triple H? I dunno, maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

Struck me as pretty much Edge turning heel again.

[UkWrestleFan]

Struck me as pretty much Edge turning heel again.

Maybe, but maybe it was just Edge making an impact? He was one of the top guys on SmackDown! but now he's in a different pond with others who consider themselves the 'top guy', one of those people being Randy Orton.

It'll be interesting to see what happens next week.

[eayragt]

Jericho moving was the real kicker, just when I thought Edge was going to get away from him and be entertaining again.

That was really it for me. I get RAW being by far away the Number One show, and needing some Star Power with some exits, I get Jericho being a top draw, but really this was the time to seperate Edge and Jericho. Now granted, with a pretty deep Main Event pool they can be seperated... but I'm not sure how logical that is, considering the intensity of their feud. Oh well.

As a minaly Smackdown man, however, it's not looking too bad. Swagger, Punk, Mysterio, Show, Kofi and Christian works fine for me - frankly, adding someone like Orton into that mix wouldn't do anything for me. However, if that's the Main Event, it's the Upper midcard that's looking weak. Mercury and Gallows could be promoted. Mr Ziggles will be there. Drew, of course. I almost forgot a about Kane - one more Main Event run for him?

I'd expect to see a few NXT wrestlers end up trying to make it on Smackdown once the show's over.

[UkWrestleFan]

I almost forgot a about Kane - one more Main Event run for him?

I'd be very happy if that happened.

Just one more run, even if it's just for a few months. I'd say make him balls-to-the-wall psycho again, trying to set people on fire etc but that's not gonna happen thanks to all this PG stuff.

[Self]

On the subject of NXT (I'm already over the draft) whatever happened to the whole Miz/Bryan thing? Remember early on, when they had a lot of scenes together, and Daniel Bryan accompanied Miz to the ring and pushed his feet off the ropes. That feud rocked, but it's just sorta faded away into the background. Couldn't Daniel Bryan have been hanging out with ShowMiz these past few weeks? Getting yelled at. Getting KO'd by Big Show. Getting thrown in the path of the Hart Dynasty. Getting his face on television and letting the tension slowly build until folks can't wait to see Bryan knock his block off.

It's not like the other NXT rookies have been relegated to the one show. Wade Barrett has been on Smackdown 3 weeks in a row, giving Jericho someone to talk to backstage ("I am in awe of your presence") and Darren Young hit the motherload getting put with CM Punk. As much as the guy bothers me, he has a storyline and a feud with Gallows... shame they bungled his babyface turn.

I'm not just complaining about the lack of American Dragon. Justin Gabriel should be accompanying Matt Hardy to the ring every week. Ditto Heath Slater & Christian. It's harder for Tarver & Sheffeild because their Pro's barely do anything on the major shows, and R-Truth & Otunga are too much of a poorly conceived pairing to ever hang out, but come on, WWE! The mentor-student relationship is rife with dramatic possibilities!

I'm so psyched for NXT tonight... When's the supplemental draft starting?

P.S. Couldn't they have timed NXT and the draft to have ended at the same time? So the rookies all show up to the draft, nervous, in ill-fitting suits, wondering which, if any, show they get drafted to.

[shawn michaels 82]

Truth to be said, this means they are going to push some "fresh meat" to the main event. (I see Christian grabbing a spot, wich is good) Let's wait and see who they push before we call it a day on SD. I do understand these decisions however. I mean, keeping Jericho and Edge on a show beeing broadcast by B networks was kind of a waste.

[The Shape]

P.S. Couldn't they have timed NXT and the draft to have ended at the same time? So the rookies all show up to the draft, nervous, in ill-fitting suits, wondering which, if any, show they get drafted to.

Bring in the sorting hat and we're all set.

[shawn michaels 82]

I'd expect to see a few NXT wrestlers end up trying to make it on Smackdown once the show's over.

Actually, the show is not ending that soon. It seems that WWE is still trying to save it and they will probably keep running it on their website if it doesn't get picked up by any network.

[Mr T Jobs To Me]

wow, they actually don't have a gimmicky pay per view next month?

Actually this is a gimmick PPV- the idea was brought to them by Jake Roberts and Scott Hall. Every wrestler has to drink a bottle of Thunderbird and take 4 shots of Jack Daniels before their match. The referee then breathalyzes them before the match to make sure they blow "Over the Limit".

[b0shey]

Supplemental Draft first picks.

WWE RAW DRAFT TRADES:

-- Chavo Guerrero To SmackDown!
-- Cody Rhodes To SmackDown!

WWE SMACKDOWN! DRAFT TRADES:

-- The Great Khali w/ Ranjin Singh To RAW
Natalya to Raw

Totaly stupid to break her from Hart Dynasty

[Teh_Showtime]

Man Smackdown got butchered

WWE RAW DRAFT TRADES:

-- Kelly Kelly To SmackDown!
-- The Big Show To SmackDown!
-- Kofi Kingston To SmackDown!
-- Christian To SmackDown!

WWE SMACKDOWN! DRAFT TRADES:

-- John Morrison To RAW
-- R-Truth To RAW
-- Edge To RAW
-- Chris Jericho To RAW

But raw DESPERATELY Needs Jericho and Morrison is a Solid Upper Card guy

SD still has Punk, Taker and Swagger

Show and Christian plus Kofi will freshen up SD

Christian vs Swagger was gold on ECW, should see a feud between them soon

[Tha Black Phenom]

Totaly stupid to break her from Hart Dynasty

I don't think that matters much for now though, no? Since they're the unified tag champions, they'll appear on both shows. Depends I guess on how long they'll be champs and what comes after that.

And yeah, we all know SD!'s looking bright. The only thing is Raw looks like a pile of trash now. I don't think they needed Jericho as much as one thinks, whatnot with Edge, Orton, H, Cena, Sheamus and even Batista sticking a little while longer.

[b0shey]

But raw DESPERATELY Needs Jericho and Morrison is a Solid Upper Card guy

SD still has Punk, Taker and Swagger

Show and Christian plus Kofi will freshen up SD

Christian vs Swagger was gold on ECW, should see a feud between them soon

Really hope they put focus on Christian on Smackdown, since EcW folded he has just been lost in the shuffle sadly.

[Teh_Showtime]

I guess the Hart Dynasty will get a push for tag titles then?

even though no Nattie :(

[Self]

I guess the Hart Dynasty will get a push for tag titles then?

even though no Nattie :(

Didn't they win the belts last night?

Honestly not sure. I didn't watch.

EDIT: Cody Rhodes. Chavo Guerrero. Chris Masters. I can't believe they're not just cutting these guys.

[PeterHilton]

Didn't they win the belts last night?

Honestly not sure. I didn't watch.

EDIT: Cody Rhodes. Chavo Guerrero. Chris Masters. I can't believe they're not just cutting these guys.

Awful.

Morrison seemed in line for a huge push on SD, on Raw he's lost in the shuffle, but at least he'll get seen

The draft has always been stacked towards the A show, and I know SD is moving to SyFy but good lord...why would I even bother to tune in?

[Teh_Showtime]

Awful.

Morrison seemed in line for a huge push on SD, on Raw he's lost in the shuffle, but at least he'll get seen

The draft has always been stacked towards the A show, and I know SD is moving to SyFy but good lord...why would I even bother to tune in?

If Punk isnt reason enough to tune in...

[PeterHilton]

If Punk isnt reason enough to tune in...

He's not. Thanks.

That's a weak roster. Who whould he feud with that I should care about?

[The Shape]

Well, now it has Hornswoggle...

[UkWrestleFan]

Chris Masters to SmackDown
Ezekiel Jackson to RAW
Goldust to RAW
Hornswoggle to SmackDown

[UkWrestleFan]

JTG to RAW.

I dunno what it is, I like JTG. Would like to see him and The Miz feud.

[crownsy]

Chris Masters to SmackDown
Ezekiel Jackson to RAW
Goldust to RAW
Hornswoggle to SmackDown

Just gets worse and worse form me (i'm a smack down guy)

We lose a ton of entertaining guys, and get back such Gems as hornswaggel, chavo and masters. awesome.

Ah well, at least the M/E should be fun to watch, assuming it's the following

Christan
Punk
Swagger
rey
Taker (part time)
and mabey one of the solid UMC gets a push (come on DOLPH!)

only good news for smackdown is christan. One of my favs, and two no brainer fueds for him that should be awesome

Christan vs Swagger: already had a great fued, but no one saw it since it was in ECW. I expect typical WWE creative style, I.E pretend it never happened and start it again, which i;m fine with.

Christan vs punk: considering that punk's entire reason for going after rey is "once rey falls in line, all these people will fall in line" I expect captain charisma's peeps will be a tempting target, and this fued will happen at some point this year.

I'm bummed where losing such great guys from the blue show, but interested to see christan, swagger's continuing (it's been good so far) run and who moves up with the M/E pretty open now.

I kind think thats one of the reasons they did this. Outside of taker, who is really a "phenom" in and of himself at this point, Swagger has a ton of fueds that they can go with to establish him.

I mean, there limited with what they could do with him on raw. Guys like cena, orton, edge, jericho and HHH are so over with the casuals that it's almost imposable to push a new guy into the M/E scene legit (see shemus)

The fans may gripe about the same guys being in the ME over and over again, but they almost always react negatively when a young kid is put over one of them for any reason (like swagger over Y2J, shemus over cena) and i understand why. Those guys have been in the ME forever, and the crowd has trouble buying the "new kid wins!!! accept it" angle when they've seen those guys in wars vs each other for years.

By opening up smackdown's ME, they create a place to in essence introduce guys to the title scene and the fans before sending them to raw.

Don't get me wrong, they have always tried to do the above, but not so much at the ME level. I think it's potentially a very smart move.

I think it's a good idea to put...i don't wanna say the B main eventers...but the younger/ less established guys in a wide open main event on smackdown, with a few vets who aren't as untouchable as the raw ME. (not counting taker, but he's pretty much a part time guy.)

Thats why i was shocked to see Morrison go to raw. Would have been a great younger guy to establish with smackdown's new wide open M/E scene.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Corey Clayton: We've just recieved an update from The Chairman's office .... JTG has NOT been sent to Raw. He is staying on SmackDown. We apologize for the misinformation.


Averted, averted!~

Heh, probably better that way. Wouldn't like to see him future endeavored.

[b0shey]

Fulll SUPPLEMENTAL DRAFT TRADES:

WWE RAW SUPPLEMENTAL DRAFT TRADES:

-- Chavo Guerrero To SmackDown!
-- Cody Rhodes To SmackDown!
-- Chris Masters To SmackDown!
-- Hornswoggle To SmackDown!
-- Rosa Mendes To SmackDown!
-- MVP To SmackDown!

WWE SMACKDOWN! SUPPLEMENTAL DRAFT TRADES:

-- The Great Khali w/ Ranjin Singh To RAW
-- Natalya To RAW
-- Ezekial Jackson To RAW
-- Goldust To RAW
-- The Hart Dynasty (Tyson Kidd & DH Smith) To RAW

let MVP main event damn it!!

[Hive]

Wow... Smackdown got exactly ONE new interesting guy: Christian... while losing Jericho, Edge, Morrison and The Hart Dynasty... crazy. Though I suppose Kofi Kingston is okish as well...

[Tha Black Phenom]

MVP's move sure changes things. Either he's gonna stick around the upper-midcard scene or be used the same way he's being used at the moment.

[Jaysin]

I might watch Smackdown this week just to see if MVP/Christian actually go to the main event scene. I've wanted that for a long time now and always felt they got jipped.

[Hyde Hill]

Just gets worse and worse form me (i'm a smack down guy)

We lose a ton of entertaining guys, and get back such Gems as hornswaggel, chavo and masters. awesome.

Ah well, at least the M/E should be fun to watch, assuming it's the following

Christan
Punk
Swagger
rey
Taker (part time)
and mabey one of the solid UMC gets a push (come on DOLPH!)

only good news for smackdown is christan. One of my favs, and two no brainer fueds for him that should be awesome

Christan vs Swagger: already had a great fued, but no one saw it since it was in ECW. I expect typical WWE creative style, I.E pretend it never happened and start it again, which i;m fine with.

Christan vs punk: considering that punk's entire reason for going after rey is "once rey falls in line, all these people will fall in line" I expect captain charisma's peeps will be a tempting target, and this fued will happen at some point this year.

I'm bummed where losing such great guys from the blue show, but interested to see christan, swagger's continuing (it's been good so far) run and who moves up with the M/E pretty open now.

I kind think thats one of the reasons they did this. Outside of taker, who is really a "phenom" in and of himself at this point, Swagger has a ton of fueds that they can go with to establish him.

I mean, there limited with what they could do with him on raw. Guys like cena, orton, edge, jericho and HHH are so over with the casuals that it's almost imposable to push a new guy into the M/E scene legit (see shemus)

The fans may gripe about the same guys being in the ME over and over again, but they almost always react negatively when a young kid is put over one of them for any reason (like swagger over Y2J, shemus over cena) and i understand why. Those guys have been in the ME forever, and the crowd has trouble buying the "new kid wins!!! accept it" angle when they've seen those guys in wars vs each other for years.

By opening up smackdown's ME, they create a place to in essence introduce guys to the title scene and the fans before sending them to raw.

Don't get me wrong, they have always tried to do the above, but not so much at the ME level. I think it's potentially a very smart move.

I think it's a good idea to put...i don't wanna say the B main eventers...but the younger/ less established guys in a wide open main event on smackdown, with a few vets who aren't as untouchable as the raw ME. (not counting taker, but he's pretty much a part time guy.)

Thats why i was shocked to see Morrison go to raw. Would have been a great younger guy to establish with smackdown's new wide open M/E scene.

Thing is Swagger and Sheamus where both totally out of the blue, that played into why people had a hard time accepting it. And sure this makes more room in the ME scene on Smackdown but that has a whole lot less meaning because apart from part time taker there are now no Main Eventers on Smackdown. People breaking the glass cieling is only cool when there is a cieling to break. Smackdown just lost its roof becoming more like a 2 hour version of WWECW and with all these midcarders leaving to RAW and others force pushed into the ME scene that also leaves a very weak midcard and undercard on Smackdown. Conversely RAW's roof is now made of weapon grade concrete hehe.

[The Shape]

I agree Hyde. As much as I want Christian to win a big one I also want it to feel like a big one, not just beating a guy he had a third tier title match with last year (at least, not until Swagger's had a much longer reign)...

[sabataged]

I think they are finally putting it back as RAW as the top show and Smackdown is truly the #2 show now. So RAW is the pro's, smackdown is AAA, NXT is AA and FCW is A ball for minor league baseball fans.

[Slagaholic]

I think they are finally putting it back as RAW as the top show and Smackdown is truly the #2 show now. So RAW is the pro's, smackdown is AAA, NXT is AA and FCW is A ball for minor league baseball fans.

Big AAA games aren't added to the MLB's broadcast, and sold at the same price as the MLB's product.

[fatallylost]

It's more akin to watching the Royals, as opposed to The Phillies.

[Slagaholic]

Color coded lol

[Zeel1]

Heya guys. I made a topic in the Dog Pound a few weeks back about how thewrestlingfan.com's Sean Carless was posting my SD recaps. Dunno how many of you have heard of it, but personally I love the site, and have been visiting it for about three years now, and love the chance to be a part of it.

Anyway, a little while ago he posted my recap of Extreme Rules. If you want to read it, it's right here: http://www.thewrestlingfan.com/extremerules2010.html

I feel I should note: for those that don't know, it's not exactly a kid friendly site, and my recap is, well, let's just say it fits in there. I don't mean any offense in anything that I say, it's all purely in jest. Thought I should point that out.

[UkWrestleFan]

Just had a read of the SmackDown spoliers (below, higlight if you want to see)

They did a good job of putting people over the guys who are leaving. Kofi beating Jericho bodes well for him. Also, looks like Edge may have turned heel again. Basically, he came out, said he doesn't want to go to RAW. Christian came out, called him a liar. Edge admitted he was lying. Edge & Christian brawled and Edge ran away. As for the World Heavyweight Title, it's looking like Swagger vs Big Show.

Sounds like an interesting show.

[Self]

Oh NXT. I liked you last week. This week, with a go-into-the-crowd-like-a-geek-and-shill-merchandise challenge... I fast-forwarded a lot of the show.

I dig Sheffield's move. I dig Michael Tarver's gimmick. I dig the new video's, with the Pro's talking about the rookies, although Jericho, Punk and Regal saying Daniel Bryan is really good, is in such stark contrast to his win-loss record and it screams 'fake' a bit too much for my taste.

[The Final Countdown]

Yeah, the booking of "Daniel Bryan" makes no sense. They always say, "He's really talented, but has no charisma." Well, if he's so talented, why does he get beat in 3 minutes every week?

[CQI13]

Because he's not as talented as the people he's going up against?

[The Final Countdown]

Because he's not as talented as the people he's going up against?
When he was going against established guys like Jericho and Regal (or even Khali), fine. But when he gets pinned in just over a minute by Skip Sheffield?

[Hyde Hill]

I think slowly Daniel is wishing he failed the physical like Nigel/Desmond did hehe.

[The Masked Orange]

like Nigel/Desmond did hehe.

Who?

He hasn't appeared on the WWE, so it seems a majority (non-smarks) still don't know who he is. :p

[b0shey]

I think slowly Daniel is wishing he failed the physical like Nigel/Desmond did hehe.

Its so obvious they are building up Danielson remember MVP had a long ass loosing streak.... but if they are not FY to the E.

[b0shey]

As noted earlier, The London Free Press has a story on 23-year-old Laura "Cherry Bomb" Dennis, a women's wrestler from Canada. It would appear that a tryout is in store for Dennis as she was contacted by WWE's talent relations to show up at the Monday Night Raw show taking place on May 17 at the Air Canada Centre. "All they told me was be there and bring my ring gear," she said. "That's all I know. I don't have any expectations."

I wasn't expecting her of the indy divas to get a tryout first... hope WWE takes notice of Jennifer Blake and Jessie McKay.

[The Final Countdown]

Its so obvious they are building up Danielson remember MVP had a long ass loosing streak.... but if they are not FY to the E.
How'd that work out for MVP? Wasn't he far more over before the losing streak than after?

If he were still having competitive matches and just having bad luck at the finish, like he was earlier, I'd agree. But his matches are becoming less competitive (and shorter) as the show goes on.

[Hyde Hill]

Plus that losing streak was used to garner face sympathy, so as a way of turning him. Not for overness purposes. I did not mind Danielson losing to the likes of Jericho or getting screwed by miz or screwing him against other pro's resulting in a loss. But against Skip? Seriously!

[SeanMcFly]

Why isn't Kofi getting a push !? Hopefully on Smackdown! he actually gets moved up the card a bit.

[PeterHilton]

Why isn't Kofi getting a push !? Hopefully on Smackdown! he actually gets moved up the card a bit.

His own fault. he screwed up a finish badly against Orton a while back and he's been in the dog house since then.

[fatallylost]

Oh NXT. I liked you last week. This week, with a go-into-the-crowd-like-a-geek-and-shill-merchandise challenge... I fast-forwarded a lot of the show.

I dig Sheffield's move. I dig Michael Tarver's gimmick. I dig the new video's, with the Pro's talking about the rookies, although Jericho, Punk and Regal saying Daniel Bryan is really good, is in such stark contrast to his win-loss record and it screams 'fake' a bit too much for my taste.

Don't lie... we all know how important it was to Triple H, and CM Punk to sell programs, carry kegs, and play american gladiators with other wrestlers when they started.....


...oh.. wait.

[SeanMcFly]

His own fault. he screwed up a finish badly against Orton a while back and he's been in the dog house since then.

Really ? When was this ?

[Hyde Hill]

Go back a few pages its explained in detail.

[fatallylost]

Or, look up kofi, orton, and stupid. You'll find it.

[Stennick]

It was right after Orton had lost the championship I believe. Legacy gave Orton some sort of racecar (I have no real idea why). Kofi busted it up (falling through the windshield in the process) they had a feud for a while that I would assume was supposed to be a bit more back and forth but wound up Randy just pinning him all the time. I just looked it up it happened on January 11th of this year.

Kofi had Randy literally on the ropes in the corner. Cody interferes knocking Kofi to the ground. The finish was SUPPOSED to be a punt but Kofi gets up. So Randy shoves him back down to the mat hoping to job his memory on the finish. Kofi gets BACK up so Randy hits the mat probablly still trying to clue him in on the finish and Kofi gets an RKO and Orton gets pissed calling him stupid. Word is Kofi just completely forgot the finish and when your getting the biggest push of your career the last thing you want is to forget the finish of a match. Not the best way to make management feel good about you being in a high profile feud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1KEUuJ9XwM

[CQI13]

Couldn't they simply have improvised a finish quicker, and dealt with it backstage?

[Hive]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1KEUuJ9XwM

Heh that clip is awesome.

It was stupid to have the hottest heel of the company waste time feuding with a midcarder anyway... and need help from two others doing so.

That's the sort of stuff they should (and seems to be doing now) use the older veterans for, like Triple H and Undertaker. I never got why they didn't throw Shawn Michaels into a feud with Morrison before his exit, either.

[PeterHilton]

Couldn't they simply have improvised a finish quicker, and dealt with it backstage?

They did improvise a finish. Orton was trying to anyways...but Kofi keot screwing it up which made it look worse.

Orton's reaction wasn't that bad; considering the character the plays it sort of fit.

And it did get dealt with backstage: Kofi got buried, his push got cut off, and now he's on SD. That's how you deal with things.

[TracyBrooksFan]

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

- The feeling is that the WWE releases came because several stars from NXT and WWE developmental are scheduled to be brought to the main roster soon. The recent releases aren't a budget-cutting move as much as just WWE making way for new members on the roster.

Shelton Benjamin's contract was releasing soon and there was always frustration internally with him. Shelton had the reputation of being one who coasted through the job and that his promos were never as good as his in-ring work.

Mickie James' release from WWE didn't surprise many within the company. Apparently there was talk of cutting her before WrestleMania. Word is that while on the SmackDown brand, Mickie had a few run-ins with Batista and when things became heated, he threatened to quit if she wasn't fired and Undertaker had to step in and calm things down. It's said that Mickie's recent behavior on the European tour was the deciding factor in letting her go.

It's said that Mike Knox didn't carry himself like a main eventer backstage but he still had his share of supporters within WWE. At one point, Shawn Michaels and Triple H were among those in favor of pushing Knox.

There was speculation online that Jimmy Wang Yang's release came after a Wellness violation because he Tweeted "three strikes and your out" after being released. Yang was referring to his third time being fired from the company.

Katie Lea's release was not something planned in advance because the WWE creative team had her booked to move to SmackDown in the Draft.

It's said that Slam Master J, son of the late Terry Gordy, mainly had a job because SmackDown head writer Michael Hayes considered him almost like a son. His release came as a bit of a surprise to some because Hayes had always protected him.

[CQI13]

They did improvise a finish. Orton was trying to anyways...but Kofi keot screwing it up which made it look worse.

Orton's reaction wasn't that bad; considering the character the plays it sort of fit.

And it did get dealt with backstage: Kofi got buried, his push got cut off, and now he's on SD. That's how you deal with things.

My point is after the first time, they should have just done the new finish (to make it look less dumb). Have Orton yell something at Kofi on his way out in disgust, and be done with it. And yes, it got dealt with backstage, but not before making a spectacle of it out there.

[PeterHilton]

My point is after the first time, they should have just done the new finish (to make it look less dumb). Have Orton yell something at Kofi on his way out in disgust, and be done with it. And yes, it got dealt with backstage, but not before making a spectacle of it out there.

Not a big deal, but I think the kick would've been a vital plot point in the storyline they were telling. It wasn't just a match ending.

That punt is something they replay the week after and the week after and it's in the video package they play before they blow off the match on PPV...Orton knew it was a big deal so he kept trying to hit the move.

imo

[CQI13]

That's also a valid point. I guess I could see that being the case.

[The Final Countdown]

Word is that while on the SmackDown brand, Mickie had a few run-ins with Batista and when things became heated, he threatened to quit if she wasn't fired and Undertaker had to step in and calm things down.
As if I needed another reason to hate Batista...

[Stennick]

Yeah I'm sure the punt was going to put Kofi out for a few weeks while Legacy brag about ending him and he shouldn't have stuck his nose where it didn't belong, Kofi comes back house of fire and maybe gets a win over Orton and who knows what from there. Maybe Kofi vs. Orton was supposed to be WM? If that feud was just getting started in January seems odd they wouldn't want to follow something that had so many big segments with the bashing of Randy's car, a few run ins and then the punt.

[eayragt]

As if I needed another reason to hate Batista...

Here's a big pinch of salt. Looks like someone's taken a run in story and blown it way out of proportion.

[The Final Countdown]

Here's a big pinch of salt. Looks like someone's taken a run in story and blown it way out of proportion.
Oh, I assumed it was blown out of proportion; most of those types of things are.

[The Shape]

Here's a big pinch of salt. Looks like someone's taken a run in story and blown it way out of proportion.

Indeed, that whole "article" is hilarious. I particularly like Mike Knox not carrying himself like a main eventer as a reason for his dismissal :p

[shawn michaels 82]

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Shelton Benjamin's contract was releasing soon and there was always frustration internally with him. Shelton had the reputation of being one who coasted through the job and that his promos were never as good as his in-ring work.

I have no idea what this word means. lol

[PeterHilton]

I have no idea what this word means. lol

really? slang term means he went thourgh the motions without putting in any real effort.

For instance, if you ride a bike downhill and allow gravity to provide the momentum you are 'coasting.'

[shawn michaels 82]

really? slang term means he went thourgh the motions without putting in any real effort.

For instance, if you ride a bike downhill and allow gravity to provide the momentum you are 'coasting.'

OOOH! That, now i get it. So he was lazy slack. loool

[Remianen]

Indeed, that whole "article" is hilarious. I particularly like Mike Knox not carrying himself like a main eventer as a reason for his dismissal :p

It's about carriage. There are some people who still believe that you should carry yourself like a 'true pro' if you wish to be considered one. Thus, using that line of thinking, carry yourself as a main eventer even if you aren't. In WWE terms, that would be 'be like Taker' moreso than 'be like a young Shawn Michaels', I think.

I have no idea what this word means. lol

Do you know what 'slacker' means? Are you familiar with people who do just enough to get by, without excelling (or even trying to excel)? That's what 'coasting' is.

[TracyBrooksFan]

As if I needed another reason to hate Batista...

this LOL

[TracyBrooksFan]

Here's a big pinch of salt. Looks like someone's taken a run in story and blown it way out of proportion.

well Batista has a track of diva "run-ins" and well Shelly was released because of him

[CQI13]

It's about carriage. There are some people who still believe that you should carry yourself like a 'true pro' if you wish to be considered one. Thus, using that line of thinking, carry yourself as a main eventer even if you aren't. In WWE terms, that would be 'be like Taker' moreso than 'be like a young Shawn Michaels', I think.



Do you know what 'slacker' means? Are you familiar with people who do just enough to get by, without excelling (or even trying to excel)? That's what 'coasting' is.

Somewhat related to the top phrase, is that why they say "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have."?

On the second point, they said his promos didn't match his talent in the ring...Don't think that has anything to do with coasting, more a lack of talent on the mic.

[PeterHilton]

well Batista has a track of diva "run-ins" and well Shelly was released because of him

And I'm sure months of piss poor work, waning fan interest, and a desire to push her music career had nothing to do with it?

Somewhat related to the top phrase, is that why they say "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have."?



Great rule to follow.

[TracyBrooksFan]

And I'm sure months of piss poor work, waning fan interest, and a desire to push her music career had nothing to do with it?



Great rule to follow.

well let see she stated that her music was a side project and actually WWE was helping push her music.,

Fan interest warning? considering she was the MOST popular/OVER diva she had the fan interest.

Piss poor work well that questionable she was not the same she use to be in the ring but she was still ne of if not the most skilled and best female talent they had.

[PeterHilton]

well let see she stated that her music was a side project and actually WWE was helping push her music.,

Fan interest warning? considering she was the MOST popular/OVER diva she had the fan interest.

Piss poor work well that questionable she was not the same she use to be in the ring but she was still ne of if not the most skilled and best female talent they had.

:rolleyes:

Mickie James is no big deal.

She's no more popular then Kelly Kelly. She was barely better in the ring than Eve or the Bella twins (I mean..she was good at one point but holy **** she was terrible towards the end). And there were just as many 'stories' about her bitchy or unprofessional backstage as there are of Batista run-ins.

She's gone. In two months only the nutter Mickie James fans who still think she's the second coming of Trish Stratus will care.

[TracyBrooksFan]

:rolleyes:

Mickie James is no big deal.

She's no more popular then Kelly Kelly. She was barely better in the ring than Eve or the Bella twins (I mean..she was good at one point but holy **** she was terrible towards the end). And there were just as many 'stories' about her bitchy or unprofessional backstage as there are of Batista run-ins.

She's gone. In two months only the nutter Mickie James fans who still think she's the second coming of Trish Stratus will care.

well that not how I and many others see it and she was way more popular then Kelly Kelly. Mickie was the most over female they had since Trish left.

[The Shape]

well that not how I and many others see it and she was way more popular then Kelly Kelly. Mickie was the most over female they had since Trish left.

Wait.....her popularity isn't down to "how you and a few others see it."

Maria was the most over diva, I'd say. Once she was gone, I'd say Melina and beth definitely, maybe Kelly...Natalya can easily get there, then you've got McCool heat-wise...

[PeterHilton]

well that not how I and many others see it and she was way more popular then Kelly Kelly. Mickie was the most over female they had since Trish left.

That's the same response you gave me when I said "no one cares about women's wrestling"

You and a bunch of net fans don't make a difference. The MAJORITY of fans won't be bothered. And that's who the WWE is selling their product to.

The Majority

[ampulator]

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

- The feeling is that the WWE releases came because several stars from NXT and WWE developmental are scheduled to be brought to the main roster soon. The recent releases aren't a budget-cutting move as much as just WWE making way for new members on the roster.

Shelton Benjamin's contract was releasing soon and there was always frustration internally with him. Shelton had the reputation of being one who coasted through the job and that his promos were never as good as his in-ring work.


I have a problem with some of that. For one thing, has Shelton Benjamin EVER coasted in terms of a match? I never seen him do that. He might not gotten better on the mic, I agree, but that's hardly coasting.

If they had said, he never got better on the mic, and they released him, fine. I can understand that. But have you ever seen that guy wrestle? He puts his heart into it. Is that coasting?

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter
Mickie James' release from WWE didn't surprise many within the company. Apparently there was talk of cutting her before WrestleMania. Word is that while on the SmackDown brand, Mickie had a few run-ins with Batista and when things became heated, he threatened to quit if she wasn't fired and Undertaker had to step in and calm things down. It's said that Mickie's recent behavior on the European tour was the deciding factor in letting her go.


What's up with Batista? Seriously, how could a woman like Mickie James can push Batista around?


It's said that Mike Knox didn't carry himself like a main eventer backstage but he still had his share of supporters within WWE. At one point, Shawn Michaels and Triple H were among those in favor of pushing Knox.


What does "carry himself" like a Main Evener mean? Remianen gave one definition, but is that the case? I'm not a fan of Knox, but what did they want out of him?


There was speculation online that Jimmy Wang Yang's release came after a Wellness violation because he Tweeted "three strikes and your out" after being released. Yang was referring to his third time being fired from the company.


Well, yeah. Going to Florida is what Jimmy Wang Yang said. Does he mean FCW or TNA?


Katie Lea's release was not something planned in advance because the WWE creative team had her booked to move to SmackDown in the Draft.


Really? REALLY?


It's said that Slam Master J, son of the late Terry Gordy, mainly had a job because SmackDown head writer Michael Hayes considered him almost like a son. His release came as a bit of a surprise to some because Hayes had always protected him.

Well... I'm not really surprised.

[CQI13]

I'm reading coasting in this case to mean that he was getting by on his in-ring talent rather than improving his mic skills as well. That's the only thing I could think of. He was super hot in the time with Angle and Haas (ages ago), and when he moved to RAW and had those matches with Michaels and Triple H. Aside from that, I think everyone agreed he was talented, but not main event talented (as all around).

[The Final Countdown]

Wait.....her popularity isn't down to "how you and a few others see it."

Maria was the most over diva, I'd say. Once she was gone, I'd say Melina and beth definitely, maybe Kelly...Natalya can easily get there, then you've got McCool heat-wise...
I completely disagree with that. Say what you like about her in-ring performance, but it always seemed to me that Mickie got the strongest crowd response of any of the women post-Trish.

[Self]

I completely disagree with that. Say what you like about her in-ring performance, but it always seemed to me that Mickie got the strongest crowd response of any of the women post-Trish.

I'd agree with that. Granted, I barely watch RAW so I can't judge how popular Kelly Kelly is (or pick her out of a line-up to be honest) but Mickie always seemed to get a strong pop from where I was sitting. Not a great worker, with 3 awful, awful moves at her disposal (wacky oopsie-daisy kick, clunkly thesz press, god-awfully fake DDT) but I dug her to an extent. Her body type, oft mocked by WWE, make her different... almost 'attainable'... and she was involved in a lot of storylines over the years. Got more character development than most. If WWE had their message straight on the piggy-james stuff, it could have been good.

[CQI13]

Isn't this how the whole thing with Molly turned out too though, all those years ago?

[TracyBrooksFan]

Wait.....her popularity isn't down to "how you and a few others see it."

Maria was the most over diva, I'd say. Once she was gone, I'd say Melina and beth definitely, maybe Kelly...Natalya can easily get there, then you've got McCool heat-wise...

Mickie was the most over diva even more so then Maria (who would be second)

[TracyBrooksFan]

That's the same response you gave me when I said "no one cares about women's wrestling"

You and a bunch of net fans don't make a difference. The MAJORITY of fans won't be bothered. And that's who the WWE is selling their product to.

The Majority

i dont mean internet fans i mean people who is in the business and runs sites like wrestling observer and others also wasnt mickie getting cheered even as a heel against Trish of all people.

they seemed bothered at the PPV and RAW taking mickie signs away and trying to mute the we want mickie chant

[TracyBrooksFan]

I'd agree with that. Granted, I barely watch RAW so I can't judge how popular Kelly Kelly is (or pick her out of a line-up to be honest) but Mickie always seemed to get a strong pop from where I was sitting. Not a great worker, with 3 awful, awful moves at her disposal (wacky oopsie-daisy kick, clunkly thesz press, god-awfully fake DDT) but I dug her to an extent. Her body type, oft mocked by WWE, make her different... almost 'attainable'... and she was involved in a lot of storylines over the years. Got more character development than most. If WWE had their message straight on the piggy-james stuff, it could have been good.

not great worker? she one of the best female talents but then again what do i know

[The Final Countdown]

not great worker? she one of the best female talents but then again what do i know
I thought she did better work on the indies than she did in WWE, to be honest. She seemed a lot more prone to screwing stuff up in WWE. The same seems to be true of Gail Kim, though. Maybe they put something in the water.

[TracyBrooksFan]

I thought she did better work on the indies than she did in WWE, to be honest. She seemed a lot more prone to screwing stuff up in WWE.

while that can be true she was still one of the best workers to me anyway but like i said what do i know

[Remianen]

Piss poor work well that questionable she was not the same she use to be in the ring but she was still ne of if not the most skilled and best female talent they had.

Bzzt! Wrong! I think you need to take off your nostalgia glasses and actually look at the quality of the matches themselves. She was not performing at anywhere near the level you seem to think she was (again, nostalgia).

I like Mickie (granted, I liked her more when she was Alexis Laree and had a full moveset...) but I'm a realist. The tape don't lie. She was great when she was working with top tier workers (Trish, Victoria) but declined sharply to the point where she couldn't even be depended upon to pull watchable matches from the 'diva' types (and she could in years past).

well that not how I and many others see it and she was way more popular then Kelly Kelly. Mickie was the most over female they had since Trish left.

Ah, that's really not saying much.

I have a problem with some of that. For one thing, has Shelton Benjamin EVER coasted in terms of a match? I never seen him do that. He might not gotten better on the mic, I agree, but that's hardly coasting.

If they had said, he never got better on the mic, and they released him, fine. I can understand that. But have you ever seen that guy wrestle? He puts his heart into it. Is that coasting?

Yes, because WWE is the standard bearer for workrate. :rolleyes:

ampulator, have you not gotten the fact that in-ring skill is simply not enough to succeed in WWE? If he wasn't in the studio constantly trying to improve his mic work, he was coasting. I don't care if he was freakin' Antonio Inoki reborn. In WWE, you must be entertaining in front of a camera or you're not going to get very far. Shelton doesn't have 'the look' that would get him over (Shad does, as does Ezekiel Jackson) so he's got to find other ways OUTSIDE THE RING to stand out. He didn't. So now, he's gone.

What's up with Batista? Seriously, how could a woman like Mickie James can push Batista around?

She could kick him in the groin and he could do nothing about it. She can yell and scream at him and punch him in the throat and if he so much as raises his voice, HE'S wrong. Seriously, who doesn't know this? It doesn't take much to "push someone around" if they can't fire back. So, if true, he used the only method available to him. I can't blame him for that. What's he supposed to do? Invite her to take it outside?

[TracyBrooksFan]

Bzzt! Wrong! I think you need to take off your nostalgia glasses and actually look at the quality of the matches themselves. She was not performing at anywhere near the level you seem to think she was (again, nostalgia).

I like Mickie (granted, I liked her more when she was Alexis Laree and had a full moveset...) but I'm a realist. The tape don't lie. She was great when she was working with top tier workers (Trish, Victoria) but declined sharply to the point where she couldn't even be depended upon to pull watchable matches from the 'diva' types (and she could in years past).



well she may not be like she use to be but that dont mean she not talented or a good worker. She not the only one who not doing like they would else where.

[lazorbeak]

not great worker? she one of the best female talents but then again what do i know

Yeah, Mickie is NOT a great worker. Like Remi, I'm a fan of women's wrestling, and she's just not all that great. Smarks loved her because she had indy cred, but when she came in and was working with top talent, she was a walking botch-fest. Not that it mattered because WWE were committed to pushing her and to her credit, she did get over, but the biggest match of her career, beating Trish at Wrestlemania, involved a pretty major botch on the finish (although it's edited on the dvd).

She did fine when paired up with people more talented than her: Melina and Beth Phoenix especially prolonged her run by being great foils for her, but you can't put her in the ring with the greener divas and get anything other than a train wreck. Remember her performance with Maryse at last year's Night of Champions? It was abysmal, especially since Melina and Michelle McCool of all people had a solid match earlier in the show.

That's not to say I hate Mickie James or have any problem with her: I liked her original heel character and she did get over. She's talented, she's got that "girl next door" quality, good for her. But no, she wasn't a great worker.

[ampulator]

Yes, because WWE is the standard bearer for workrate. :rolleyes:

ampulator, have you not gotten the fact that in-ring skill is simply not enough to succeed in WWE? If he wasn't in the studio constantly trying to improve his mic work, he was coasting. I don't care if he was freakin' Antonio Inoki reborn. In WWE, you must be entertaining in front of a camera or you're not going to get very far. Shelton doesn't have 'the look' that would get him over (Shad does, as does Ezekiel Jackson) so he's got to find other ways OUTSIDE THE RING to stand out. He didn't. So now, he's gone.


First of all, don't assume I don't know that. EVERYONE KNOWS IT. And I really disagree with you he was coasting. If he kept up his ringwork, then he wasn't my coasting.

My point wasn't that ALL HE NEEDED TO DO WAS HAVE GOOD RING WORK. MY POINT WAS THAT HE WASN'T COASTING BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING SO DAMN HARD IN HIS MATCHES. As for his mic work. it sucks. Not everyone can god damn be the Rock or even just the Miz. Hell, how many people in the E are THAT DAMN GOOD ON THE MIC? And that's assuming if he improved on the mic that they would have pushed him. I sure don't believe that. Hell, Lesnar wasn't exactly gold on the mic, neither is Big Show, but they were serviceable. Benjamin is a tad worse, but not so much he was "COASTING".

Hell, if Shelton Benjamin is coasting, then just about everyone in WWE is coasting, dagnabbit. They should fire most of them for doing even less than Shelton Benjamin.


She could kick him in the groin and he could do nothing about it. She can yell and scream at him and punch him in the throat and if he so much as raises his voice, HE'S wrong. Seriously, who doesn't know this? It doesn't take much to "push someone around" if they can't fire back. So, if true, he used the only method available to him. I can't blame him for that. What's he supposed to do? Invite her to take it outside?

Uh-huh. Yeah. Right. If she did that, she would have been fired. Immediately. Batista is what now to the WWE? And what was her? Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Linsolv]

Dude, calm down.

I understand that you think if someone's working hard at what you (rightly, IMO) think is the important part, then he's not coasting. But the E doesn't think that's the important part.

While Cena's pretty decent on the mic (sometimes), Orton seems to be considered a laughingstock by the smarks around here, especially for his mic work. Yet, both are super over, and Benjamin wasn't.

If Vince could have his way, I'm pretty sure that he'd have matches at PPV and that's it; Benjamin couldn't carry a feud without matches. Hell, I'm not even sure he carried feuds WITH matches. He just put on good matches, which isn't enough in a sports entertainment fed. You have to tell a story, and he didn't.

[Edited because for some reason it only put up half my post]

[The Shape]

Hell, how many people in the E are THAT DAMN GOOD ON THE MIC? And that's assuming if he improved on the mic that they would have pushed him. I sure don't believe that. Hell, Lesnar wasn't exactly gold on the mic, neither is Big Show, but they were serviceable. Benjamin is a tad worse, but not so much he was "COASTING".

Big Show is a giant. Lesnar was a freakish athletic specimen.

Shelton has nothing like that to get him ahead. So he had to make himself stand out. He had eight years with some promise, it's not like his ring work was ignored, they put over his athleticism, but that wasn't enough to step up. And eventually they just ran out of ideas for him. There's really nothing they can do with him that they can't do with other guys.

I've read I think here that he "didn't want" to be a main eventer, not sure about where that came from but the sentiment makes sense; he was "coasting" in that he was happy enough where he was on the talent he had not to add anything else to his arsenal to really put him ahead of the game. They gave him all sorts of angles; the momma stuff, a brief racism thing with Coach, feud with evolution, Gold Standard promo time...but it never clicked.

[The Final Countdown]

She did fine when paired up with people more talented than her: Melina and Beth Phoenix especially prolonged her run by being great foils for her
I'm with you on Beth, but Melina? No way is Melina any better than Mickie, IMO.

[ampulator]

Big Show is a giant. Lesnar was a freakish athletic specimen.

Shelton has nothing like that to get him ahead. So he had to make himself stand out. He had eight years with some promise, it's not like his ring work was ignored, they put over his athleticism, but that wasn't enough to step up. And eventually they just ran out of ideas for him. There's really nothing they can do with him that they can't do with other guys.

I've read I think here that he "didn't want" to be a main eventer, not sure about where that came from but the sentiment makes sense; he was "coasting" in that he was happy enough where he was on the talent he had not to add anything else to his arsenal to really put him ahead of the game. They gave him all sorts of angles; the momma stuff, a brief racism thing with Coach, feud with evolution, Gold Standard promo time...but it never clicked.
YOU make a fair point. But being happy where you were? Hell, they might as well fire Matt Hardy too then. Kane maybe. Besides what the hell they can expect, being on the road five days a week? What do they want? They have to hold back sometimes. Not go full out. What did they want Benjamin to do, be Kurt Angle and literally burn himself out pulling 5 star matches out of neck and body?

And I'm not so angry that WWE released them either. If they released him because they felt he didn't fit, fine. If he broke a rule, fine. If he was actually lazy or a jerk, fine. But him coasting? That's total bull****.

I've seen wrestlers coast before. D'Lo Brown coasted around after the Droz incident. X-Pac coasted around and never changed his character. And I like Brown and I used to like X-Pac. But Shelton Benjamin doing the same thing? Bull****.

Dude, calm down.

I understand that you think if someone's working hard at what you (rightly, IMO) think is the important part, then he's not coasting. But the E doesn't think that's the important part.

While Cena's pretty decent on the mic (sometimes), Orton seems to be considered a laughingstock by the smarks around here, especially for his mic work. Yet, both are super over, and Benjamin wasn't.

If Vince could have his way, I'm pretty sure that he'd have matches at PPV and that's it; Benjamin couldn't carry a feud without matches. Hell, I'm not even sure he carried feuds WITH matches. He just put on good matches, which isn't enough in a sports entertainment fed. You have to tell a story, and he didn't.

[Edited because for some reason it only put up half my post]

It's not so much that I'm angry that the WWE's thinking he's coasting, as much as other people think they are right to think he is. From their limited perspective, they probably saw it as that, but I didn't think anyone else's perspective could be as narrow as their's That's what ticks me off. I can see why WWE feels that way. I can't understand why anyone else can agree with them. WWE is still wrong. But they can't see much more than want or even can see. Besides, if he was coasting, then there are worse offenders than he, and offenders that WWE even needs or want less than him.

I'm with you on Beth, but Melina? No way is Melina any better than Mickie, IMO.

I'm no Mickie fan... but I have reluctantly say you are right. Melina isn't that much better.

[Linsolv]

Hell, they might as well fire Matt Hardy too then. Kane maybe.

Yeah, I agree about Hardy. It's my understanding that they are keeping him around to not give him to TNA.

As for Kane, I thought he was still getting a huge pop...

[ampulator]

Yeah, I agree about Hardy. It's my understanding that they are keeping him around to not give him to TNA.

As for Kane, I thought he was still getting a huge pop...

I love Kane, but by WWE's own logic, he should be released, as Hardy. Heck, where do you think Benjamin is likely to end up if he decides he wants stay in the wreslting business? Only two places that might be able to afford him.

[Linsolv]

I love Kane, but by WWE's own logic, he should be released, as Hardy. Heck, where do you think Benjamin is likely to end up if he decides he wants stay in the wreslting business? Only two places that might be able to afford him.

No, no. What I meant about Hardy was that Matt and Jeff are worth a lot more as a boxed set than either one separately.

Benjamin, however, is not part of any such set.

[ampulator]

Charlie Haas? But I can't disagree on that point.

[Self]

As much as he's simply an afterthought on TV, there's a value to keeping Kane around. He loses so rarely that it's still a semi-big deal for a young guy to beat him, so he can elevate folks a bit. Plus his size gives him an "ooh aah" factor in house shows. He's a minor attraction, whereas Benjamin & Hardy are just typical wrestlers unless you're specifically a fan of theirs.

I'll worry about Hardy when Justin Gabriel is eliminated from NXT.

[ampulator]

Self, the issue isn't Kane... it's not even the fact they released Benjamin. It's WHY they released him.

[Tha Black Phenom]

YOU make a fair point. But being happy where you were? Hell, they might as well fire Matt Hardy too then. Kane maybe. Besides what the hell they can expect, being on the road five days a week? What do they want? They have to hold back sometimes. Not go full out. What did they want Benjamin to do, be Kurt Angle and literally burn himself out pulling 5 star matches out of neck and body?


No, they wanted him to deliver. Nobody's talking about him going all out, rather just delivering on all the chances they've thrown his way or at least be of SOME use if not. Kane and Matt are completely different situations, the WWE's logic works on them but there's always other factors to counter it too. Kane is a right tool for putting others over and he's a vet in the locker-room. And despite the fact that Matt Hardy admittedly hasn't ran with any ball either, he's shown to always go forth and take full advantage of the little things they give him(which is more than the matches).

What we see at face value shouldn't be indicative of everything, and just because Shelton's been working his butt off in the ring doesn't mean he wasn't coasting. There's always more than meets the eye. He could've been coasting on several other issues, maybe more than the mic work. Travel issues, backstage situations, we never know. Even if not that, they gave him those many gimmicks through out 05-07, they all fizzled out while he stayed genuine in the ring. That's great, but where's that gonna get ya? There's been rampant reports about him lacking passion in 06, during that time they gave him IC title reigns and all the jazz. They quite often expected more of him and he didn't seem like he ever wanted the role(s) they thought for him.

It's one thing to work hard in an area, but as a whole I wouldn't say he wasn't coasting. There's definitely been worse cases than him, and hell maybe there are some now but Shelton's contract came up and that was all that needed to be. Maybe when another one of those cases will have their contract expired, the same thing might go down and the same reason might come up.

[lazorbeak]

I'm with you on Beth, but Melina? No way is Melina any better than Mickie, IMO.


Why, exactly? I know this is the perception but Melina has managed to have not just good but very good matches with Beth Phoenix, Mickie James, Jillian Hall, and as I said, she had a great match with McCool on the same card where James had a terrible match with an equally green worker. How is she "in no way" better than Mickie? I guess I just don't get it. For me it'd be like somebody saying Lita was a better worker than Molly Holly: yes, maybe Lita was more over, but I could watch Molly Holly matches without being worried she was about to break her own neck.

But hey, don't take my word for it:

"I think Melina is really creative and imaginative. She’s an innovator and she comes up with some great matches. I love watching her wrestle. In a lot of ways, I think she’s the best wrestler in the world right now.”

-Bret Hart.

[ampulator]

Like I said, I'm not angry that he was released. He didn't fit the WWE's style. But it's still rather hard for to believe he's coasting. He might not be the right person for the job, but that doesn't he was coasting. If they let him go because he wasn't the right person, I wouldn't be so angry.

It feels to me, that they would have admit they screwed up if they admitted if wasn't the right person for the job, because that meant they made mistakes on hiring AND rehiring him again and again. They lop it off to Benjamin saying he's "coasting". That's how it feels.

Why, exactly? I know this is the perception but Melina has managed to have not just good but very good matches with Beth Phoenix, Mickie James, Jillian Hall, and as I said, she had a great match with McCool on the same card where James had a terrible match with an equally green worker. How is she "in no way" better than Mickie? I guess I just don't get it. For me it'd be like somebody saying Lita was a better worker than Molly Holly: yes, maybe Lita was more over, but I could watch Molly Holly matches without being worried she was about to break her own neck.

But hey, don't take my word for it:

"I think Melina is really creative and imaginative. She’s an innovator and she comes up with some great matches. I love watching her wrestle. In a lot of ways, I think she’s the best wrestler in the world right now.”

-Bret Hart.


I'll concede partly. In terms of Consistency, Melina has gotten better than Mickie James. Mickie James was never all that consistent in terms of performance, and sometimes she's quite careless. However, in terms of technical, flying, and what not, she's not as good as Mickie James. Mickie is also more athletic than Melina is.

I can concede she's less likely to have bad match than Mickie James, but I don't really feel she can pull off a better match than Mickie James if Mickie was not having an off night and was pulling out all stops.

I'm not a Mickie fan, though, so I'm not the best defender.

[Remianen]

First of all, don't assume I don't know that. EVERYONE KNOWS IT. And I really disagree with you he was coasting. If he kept up his ringwork, then he wasn't my coasting.

My point wasn't that ALL HE NEEDED TO DO WAS HAVE GOOD RING WORK. MY POINT WAS THAT HE WASN'T COASTING BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING SO DAMN HARD IN HIS MATCHES. As for his mic work. it sucks. Not everyone can god damn be the Rock or even just the Miz. Hell, how many people in the E are THAT DAMN GOOD ON THE MIC? And that's assuming if he improved on the mic that they would have pushed him. I sure don't believe that. Hell, Lesnar wasn't exactly gold on the mic, neither is Big Show, but they were serviceable. Benjamin is a tad worse, but not so much he was "COASTING".

Hell, if Shelton Benjamin is coasting, then just about everyone in WWE is coasting, dagnabbit. They should fire most of them for doing even less than Shelton Benjamin.

Yeah, you keep thinking that matches are what matter primarily in WWE. Instead of screaming like a paragon of petulance, go back and look at the tape. I don't give a flip how good his matches were and obviously, neither does the E. You can't advance feuds in WWE solely on ringwork, can you? Shelton looked disinterested and listless in many of his promos from his ECW stint. His character has never been overtly interesting (which places him in stark contrast to Brock and Big Show, does it not?) and needed time on camera to really build interest.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Right. If she did that, she would have been fired. Immediately. Batista is what now to the WWE? And what was her? Yeah, that's what I thought.

I'm sorry, what were we talking about again? Oh yeah, MICKIE JAMES GETTING RELEASED.

Sounds like a synonym for 'fired' to me. :rolleyes:

And lazorbeak, that quote can't stand on its own. If he's talking about just in WWE (as in WWE = 'the world'), perhaps. If he's talking literally, he's shown how little he's familiar with the subject.

[lazorbeak]

And lazorbeak, that quote can't stand on its own. If he's talking about just in WWE (as in WWE = 'the world'), perhaps. If he's talking literally, he's shown how little he's familiar with the subject.

I think there's obviously some hyperbole but Perez is criminally underrated: she can work face or heel (though is better suited as a heel), can pull out good matches with abysmal talent, and can put on very entertaining matches when paired up with someone like Beth Phoenix.


Mickie is more athletic than Melina? I guess I just don't see it: most of her botches tend to come off aerial moves that she's not athletic enough to pull off.

[ampulator]

Yeah, you keep thinking that matches are what matter primarily in WWE. Instead of screaming like a paragon of petulance, go back and look at the tape. I don't give a flip how good his matches were and obviously, neither does the E. You can't advance feuds in WWE solely on ringwork, can you? Shelton looked disinterested and listless in many of his promos from his ECW stint. His character has never been overtly interesting (which places him in stark contrast to Brock and Big Show, does it not?) and needed time on camera to really build interest.


NO I DO NOT. You ASSUMED I DID. That's the difference. I NEVER ONCE THOUGHT THAT MATCHES WERE THE MOST IMPORTANT IN THE WWE, EVER.

Hell, I watched the WWF during the Attitude Era, all the damn time. Do you know think I wouldn't know that the angles mattered more after watching them all these years? Or do you not think I don't know that's how Stone Cold Steve Austin and the Rock ultimately got over is through angles?


I'm sorry, what were we talking about again? Oh yeah, MICKIE JAMES GETTING RELEASED.


You misunderstand me. I don't care much for Mickie, but I don't have anything against her. What problem with your statement is you seem to think Mickie had more power in the WWE than Batista, or at least, in a certain way. Anyone paying attention to the WWE knows that isn't the case.

And two, this isn't the first time something like this has happened with Batista. There has been cases where Randy Orton has gotten into backstage problems with Divas, yet he never threatened to quit over such arguments. What is big Dave? Tough on the outside, but easy-to-push like Jim Cornette is, without the fire?

Mickie is more athletic than Melina? I guess I just don't see it: most of her botches tend to come off aerial moves that she's not athletic enough to pull off.

I guess that's a fair point. But I chalk it up to... now, don't be shocked... that if anyone could be labeled as coasting, it was her.

[The Final Countdown]

Why, exactly?
Could just be personal preference, who knows? All I can say is that Melina's never really impressed me. Mickie has her screw-ups, sure (so do the vast majority of the women in WWE, Melina included) but I've definitely found her to be more entertaining than Melina.

"I think Melina is really creative and imaginative. She’s an innovator and she comes up with some great matches. I love watching her wrestle. In a lot of ways, I think she’s the best wrestler in the world right now.”

-Bret Hart.
I have nothing but respect for Bret, who is one of my childhood heroes. But I could not disagree more with that quote, particularly the last sentence. Seriously, Bret?

[TracyBrooksFan]

ok Bret said Melina great so it makes her great when alot of people in the business has said Mickie a good or great worker yet she garbage?

I understand where ya'll are coming from but i still think Mickie is one of the best workers they had.


As for the wrestlemania "botch" finish, well even Trish said she was selling her leg injury and could not pick Mickie up fully.

[Hyde Hill]

I think there's obviously some hyperbole but Perez is criminally underrated: she can work face or heel (though is better suited as a heel), can pull out good matches with abysmal talent, and can put on very entertaining matches when paired up with someone like Beth Phoenix.


Mickie is more athletic than Melina? I guess I just don't see it: most of her botches tend to come off aerial moves that she's not athletic enough to pull off.

Agreed, altough I felt her match against McTaker was overrated, but I can not and will not be objective towards Calloway's pounding cardboard TNA ripoff plank, but it was way better then Mickie's forray on the same card. Melina's match with Beth at Extreme rules was good though and she seems more capable of making a bad worker seem decent or get something out of them then Micky did and that is a very good quality to have in general and especially in the E's women division.

[The Celt]

To be fair calling anyone the greatest in the world is always going to be controversial, 10x so if that person is a woman. I don't know if I'd call Melina the greatest, but she sure is under-rated I think. I mean if a guy had the pretty much the exact same move set as Melina they'd be getting over. Also Melina is actually quite creative when it comes to spots; she's very, very good at coming up with unique ways and situations to apply her moves.

I think if the WWE divas were more about serious competition Melina would still a big fore runner.

You know it'll never happen, but if Melina was ever in SHIMMER or something, I honestly believe she'd be more than capable of keeping her head above water.

Also, I don't know why I think this, but I'm (for some reason) so sure that Melina could do a 450* splash. She just seems like the type who could pull it off.

[TracyBrooksFan]

To be fair calling anyone the greatest in the world is always going to be controversial, 10x so if that person is a woman. I don't know if I'd call Melina the greatest, but she sure is under-rated I think. I mean if a guy had the pretty much the exact same move set as Melina they'd be getting over. Also Melina is actually quite creative when it comes to spots; she's very, very good at coming up with unique ways and situations to apply her moves.

I think if the WWE divas were more about serious competition Melina would still a big fore runner.

You know it'll never happen, but if Melina was ever in SHIMMER or something, I honestly believe she'd be more than capable of keeping her head above water.

Also, I don't know why I think this, but I'm (for some reason) so sure that Melina could do a 450* splash. She just seems like the type who could pull it off.

I think she can pull a 450 splash also as can Jillian.



I like Melina and i do think she good but not better then Mickie In My Opinion

[Linsolv]

You misunderstand me. I don't care much for Mickie, but I don't have anything against her. What problem with your statement is you seem to think Mickie had more power in the WWE than Batista, or at least, in a certain way. Anyone paying attention to the WWE knows that isn't the case.

The way it came off to me was that because Mickie's a woman there is no way for a big, huge behemoth like Dave Bautista to have a fair fight with her. She could scream, hit him, and so on and so forth quite literally all the way up to murder, and if he even suggested raising a hand to her, he would have bad press for the rest of his career.

To be honest, I was almost worried someone would scream misogyny after that comment, but it didn't turn out that way. Not that I thought it was misogynist, just that someone on the prowl to argue that someone hates women would pick up on that comment. Which is silly because everyone knows Remi thinks women's wrestling is the best.

[PeterHilton]

ok Bret said Melina great so it makes her great when alot of people in the business has said Mickie a good or great worker yet she garbage?

I understand where ya'll are coming from but i still think Mickie is one of the best workers they had.


As for the wrestlemania "botch" finish, well even Trish said she was selling her leg injury and could not pick Mickie up fully.

Don't take this personally but...are you really young or is English your second language? You posting from your blackberry?

[PeterHilton]

Also...if you want to do the 'coasting' debate...Shelton's mic work never improved. It didn't. In that way he's been coasting for years.

But it was stil a mistake to release him because, in the same way that Kane's size makes him an attraction, Shelton's athleticism and ability to work a decent match would've made him a perfectly acceptable midcardr for years.

The E has several guys on the roster who's sole job seems to be to season the younger workers : Finlay, Regal, etc

Well those guys are on the wrong side of 30 so having men like Shelton or Haas or Chavo or (going way back) keeping Dinsmore around would not be a bad idea.

[TracyBrooksFan]

Don't take this personally but...are you really young or is English your second language? You posting from your blackberry?

im not young and english is my first language.

I type like i do because i DONT HAVE TO type a certain way for anyone.

[Hyde Hill]

im not young and english is my first language.

I type like i do because i DONT HAVE TO type a certain way for anyone.

That is correct, but good grammer and spelling does help get your point across better in some situations, and this board is one of them mainly due to the nature of a lot of the IWC and the internet in general, which we try to avoid here.

Personally I do not mind as I can understand what you are saying and your tone and word use is always polite and that is the main thing imho.

[ampulator]

Also...if you want to do the 'coasting' debate...Shelton's mic work never improved. It didn't. In that way he's been coasting for years.

But it was stil a mistake to release him because, in the same way that Kane's size makes him an attraction, Shelton's athleticism and ability to work a decent match would've made him a perfectly acceptable midcardr for years.

The E has several guys on the roster who's sole job seems to be to season the younger workers : Finlay, Regal, etc

Well those guys are on the wrong side of 30 so having men like Shelton or Haas or Chavo or (going way back) keeping Dinsmore around would not be a bad idea.
A lot of people's mic work hasn't really improved. As for him coasting on mic work, maybe, but was he coasting in general? Getting lazy on protecting guys in the ring? Becoming late? Dragging his feet to make it to events?

That's why I have the problem when they label him as coasting. It sounds like they are accusing of coasting in general. I can't see it as the case, literally. The guy takes a crazy dive off the MITB almost every year he's in it (almost), but a guy that's coasting in general won't even bother that off. Why risk your body if you truly don't give a damn?

[lazorbeak]

ok Bret said Melina great so it makes her great when alot of people in the business has said Mickie a good or great worker yet she garbage?

I understand where ya'll are coming from but i still think Mickie is one of the best workers they had.


As for the wrestlemania "botch" finish, well even Trish said she was selling her leg injury and could not pick Mickie up fully.

Yeah that was a botch and kudos for Trish for being a professional but when they edit out something entirely from a dvd it's a botch and a bad one.

And I was using Bret's comment as a supporting example along with specific examples where she put on demonstratively better performances against similar talent within the past year. So unsourced hearsay about people calling Mickie "good or great" really has nothing to do with anything, and since nobody called her garbage, I don't know what you're talking about anyway?

im not young and english is my first language.

I type like i do because i DONT HAVE TO type a certain way for anyone.

There's a lot of things people don't have to do but common courtesy makes them do it anyway. It's hard to have any dialogue when people have to decode what you're trying to say.

[Moe Hunter]

ok Bret said Melina great so it makes her great when alot of people in the business has said Mickie a good or great worker yet she garbage?

I understand where ya'll are coming from but i still think Mickie is one of the best workers they had.

As for the wrestlemania "botch" finish, well even Trish said she was selling her leg injury and could not pick Mickie up fully.
Who in the business said the same of Mickie that Bret (and Mick Foley, while we're at it) said about Melina?

Mickie started out good but she went way downhill. Wrestlemania 21 was 5 years ago now!

im not young and english is my first language.

I type like i do because i DONT HAVE TO type a certain way for anyone.
I don't HAVE to put on a shirt to walk around town. Just because you aren't forced to do something, doesn't mean it's not a good idea. I don't have a problem with your typing because it's clear enough, but would I prefer it if everyone typed properly? Absolutely I would!

A lot of people's mic work hasn't really improved. As for him coasting on mic work, maybe, but was he coasting in general? Getting lazy on protecting guys in the ring?
He purposely went against the RA's wishes and did his Pay Dirt move instead of the planned finish in a match with an unsuspecting Mr Kennedy, injuring him. Who knows how many other stories like that haen't been revealed. We wouldn't know about that one if Kennedy hadn't been released.

[Self]

Self, the issue isn't Kane... it's not even the fact they released Benjamin. It's WHY they released him.

Forgive me for going off on a bit of a tangent. I do that sometimes.

Benjamin has a bit of a reputation for 'coasting'. Not eating perfectly. Not going to the gym a ton (I could have sworn I read an interview where he admitted this) Getting by on his genetics without going the extra mile. I dunno, he may have come off as a bit lazy (again, I have no evidence of this beyond an interview I think I read a long time ago) That, coupled with promo skills and the number of failed pushes over the years, I can see why he was cut, and I agree with it. Time for fresh blood. I'd give Hardy and Kane the same consideration for the same reasons.

On the Melina discussion... I loved the Melina/McCool PPV match from a while back. The one that kicked off with McCool baseball sliding her from the splits entrance. They did a lot of wacky innovative stuff in that match. I dug it.

[ampulator]

He purposely went against the RA's wishes and did his Pay Dirt move instead of the planned finish in a match with an unsuspecting Mr Kennedy, injuring him. Who knows how many other stories like that haen't been revealed. We wouldn't know about that one if Kennedy hadn't been released.

This is KENNEDY we are talking about here. That guy gets injured so much, it's not funny.

Forgive me for going off on a bit of a tangent. I do that sometimes.

Benjamin has a bit of a reputation for 'coasting'. Not eating perfectly. Not going to the gym a ton (I could have sworn I read an interview where he admitted this) Getting by on his genetics without going the extra mile. I dunno, he may have come off as a bit lazy (again, I have no evidence of this beyond an interview I think I read a long time ago) That, coupled with promo skills and the number of failed pushes over the years, I can see why he was cut, and I agree with it. Time for fresh blood. I'd give Hardy and Kane the same consideration for the same reasons.


You see, although you make some good points, a LOT of people in the WWE are guilty of those issues: not eating right and going to the gym. Hell, they should release Mark Henry for all those years he was in the OVW.

Now, Henry's a nice guy, but look at Benjamin and look at him. Tell me, if Benjamin was coasting, then Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Kane, and a lot has literally been lazy then.

Hell, if not going to gym seriously affected him, then we would have someone posting a pic of Scott Steiner yelling, "HE'S FAT!!!!!!!" when referencing Scott Steiner.

As for the new blood, I can understand that explanation-but that's not the one they used. Saying he's "coasting" sounds like a lame excuse, because they should let him go a long time ago, and lot of others, if they really believed that.

[PeterHilton]

This is KENNEDY we are talking about here. That guy gets injured so much, it's not funny.

Wow..now you're grasping at straws. We get it. You think Shelton is a great performer.

But regardless of the other worker in the match, and regardless of whether or not it resulted in an injury, there's no good excuse for going away from the Road Agent's finish. Especially not in the WWE.

[CQI13]

With the Mark Henry comment, remember early on they had a ton of money invested in him. Might as well find SOME use for him and pay him rather than release him and pay him.

Shelton was meh.

[Linsolv]

We've already addressed Hardy and Kane. Why do you keep mentioning them?

How's this for an 'official' phrasing that deals with Hardy and Kane? (Note that I made this up and they'd probably not say these words)

"We release workers who have a track record of what we, the WWE, consider coasting, unless there is some mitigating reason why we should not release them."

In Kane's case, he's still having lots of squash matches over Evan Bourne and NXT rookies. So, in the rare case that he DOES lose, it can give a young guy the rub, for instance.

In Hardy's case, at the bare minimum, he's a pro on NXT and they really can't get rid of him until Gabriel's eliminated, as well as a couple other theories put forth (including by me, actually).

A lot of the arguments you use are complaining that if the E said one reason or another then it'd be okay. Well, it's like that story of Julius Caesar: He's been stabbed by dozens of men, so not one of them killed him, right? Well, no. Coasting's probably the reason that the other stuff mattered. If he was working his ass off to make his promos better (like the Miz has been) or constantly netting them good PR (like Cena has been) or even just listening to the d*** road manager, then it probably wouldn't matter that he doesn't have the same style as everyone else in the E.

[Tha Black Phenom]

You see, although you make some good points, a LOT of people in the WWE are guilty of those issues: not eating right and going to the gym. Hell, they should release Mark Henry for all those years he was in the OVW.

Now, Henry's a nice guy, but look at Benjamin and look at him. Tell me, if Benjamin was coasting, then Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Kane, and a lot has literally been lazy then.

Hell, if not going to gym seriously affected him, then we would have someone posting a pic of Scott Steiner yelling, "HE'S FAT!!!!!!!" when referencing Scott Steiner.

As for the new blood, I can understand that explanation-but that's not the one they used. Saying he's "coasting" sounds like a lame excuse, because they should let him go a long time ago, and lot of others, if they really believed that.

You always keep pointing at others and that's where your problem lies. Sure, there's others that could be accountable for the same thing Shelton's said to do, but they have cases of their own and factors that keep them in. Shelton has nothing else going for him. Effort in his matches is good and all, but they have more than enough high-flying guinea pigs for his role. He's a dime a dozen. Maybe if he had as much as someone in the locker-room with clout sticking up for him, he *probably* wouldn't be gone. But the fact is, things didn't seem to be, and his contract came UP. There's no doubt he wouldn't be released out of the blue, but it seemed his contract came to an end and why would they renew it? So he can make more flips in MITB matches without any other use, or hint at exterior effort?

[Marshall]

Someone's probably said this already, but as far as Shelton goes, I can see him going back to WWE after a year or something if TNA don't pick him up - the 'E have a track record of rehiring workers e.g. Chuck Palumbo, Lance Cade, Joey Mercury and team-mate Charlie Haas.

His release is probably a good thing - lets him go out and regain the passion that hasn't shown through in his work for years. If he finds it and something clicks for him as a worker, you can bet they'd have him back.

[jwt13]

This may have been said but I think the mystery guy of the SES is Joey Mercury

[SeanMcFly]

This may have been said but I think the mystery guy of the SES is...

Just a heads up...

When you do a spoiler, do it in white, because people can see the color you put.

[jwt13]

Just a heads up...

When you do a spoiler, do it in white, because people can see the color you put.

fixed sorry about that:o

[Tha Black Phenom]

SmackDown! was pretty damn good, with Edge/Christian promo being the highlight. They really need to capitalize on how natural Christian sounds on the mic, if they don't line him up for a World title shot this time around then I won't know what to think.

Big Show's KOs were single-handedly (pun intended) the most awesome bits Show has done in years.

[Hyde Hill]

Just a heads up...

When you do a spoiler, do it in white, because people can see the color you put.

That wasn't a true spoiler though maybe as it was his opinion or idea not so much confirmed and highlight if you want to know.

[Candyman]

Now, Henry's a nice guy, but look at Benjamin and look at him. Tell me, if Benjamin was coasting, then Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Kane, and a lot has literally been lazy then.

Kane's 7 feet tall - is Benjamin? Mark Henry weighs 450 pounds and was once the strongest man in world - was Benjamin? Matt Hardy is a great mentor for younger workers (in TEW terms, he's good in the lockerroom and has good performance skills to help others improve) - is Benjamin?

Nobody in the WWE, or any other wrestling company, is perfect. No matter why somebody gets released, you're going to find somebody else with the same flaws that doesn't get released. But it's pointless to compare them, because the two situations are never going to be exactly the same.

[Zeel1]

My recap of SmackDown! has finally be posted on TWF.com. I swear, I don't know why it takes as long as it does after being sent. I mean, I sent it in at 3 PM yesterday, (I get the files of the show hours before it airs, and recap it from there to make sure I'm never late) just so he can ass around and not post it 'till Saturday anyway.. :p

Anyway, same little disclaimer I gave for the Extreme Rules recap: Not suited for children - which is kind of amusing, considering I'm only 16 myself..I make recaps that I'm not old enough to read! - but it's all in jest, no offense meant to anyone.

http://www.thewrestlingfan.com/sdrant043010.html

[Tha Black Phenom]

I'm already a fan, Zeel. Seriously, I used to be way into that site about a year ago, no idea why I even tuned off honestly. I think they sported twice as much interesting photoshopped images back then. Good material, will read.

[Zeel1]

I'm already a fan, Zeel. Seriously, I used to be way into that site about a year ago, no idea why I even tuned off honestly. I think they sported twice as much interesting photoshopped images back then. Good material, will read.

As I said before, I've been a fan of that site for a really long time, so it's so cool that I'm now writing SD! and PPV recaps. It's so cool that he thinks they're good enough, because I haven't even done that many. Seriously - I did four recaps in November of 2008, then stopped doing them until this month. Sean asked for people to apply in his WM recap, to quote-on-quote "save this f*cking website already", and I thought "Well, hey, I used to do recaps for a forum I go to, and everyone there liked them, why not try?" So I applied, and then eventually did a recap of the April 9th SD!, if just to get back into the swing of writing them. Sent that to Carless on an impulse, and he used it, which just absolutely shocked the hell out of me.

[Hyde Hill]

Do they by chance need an accent on the positive TNA recapper? lolz.

[Zeel1]

Do they by chance need an accent on the positive TNA recapper? lolz.

Nah, they have a TNA recapper..

...and she's delightfully insane. :D

Seriously, every week it's one of the most random things I ever read. Her recap style is just a total non-stop nonsequitor, and I can barely understand what's going on in the shows, and yet..I love it.

[Self]

Watching Smackdown, and I hugely enjoyed Edge & Christian... for about 2 minutes. After that they went in such an odd direction it lost me. This is probably just me, but I have no interest in Edge vs Christian. I want to see them be friends, I want to see them be a tag team, so the entire segment fell flat to me. It also seemed a bit of a throwaway... Decades of real history, a formerly successful tag team that has been apart for so long, the storyline possibilities were huge. You could have stretched this one promo out over 3 fantastic months. Reunite, friends, Edge subtly uses Christian to get what he wants, then less subtly, then blatantly, break up, heated feud. Could have been great. Instead we got this, which was fun, but I found it... unsatisfying.

Fun little Smackdown though. Lots of different folks given the chance to talk (perhaps too many). Couple of nice matches. Big Show KO'ing folks. I now have a higher opinion of Cody in-ring. MVP cut a nice promo. The appeal of Kelly Kelly still escapes me. Looking forward to next week, when Edge & Jericho aren't around, giving more of the undercard guys even more time to shine.

[crownsy]

Thought smackdown was really good this week.

Excellent match between Jericho and kofi, rhodes vs morrision and SES vs rey and MVP was pretty good.

In addition, the MVP promo was good, as was Edge and Christan's.

But the highlight for me was swagger's heel promo. They probley let it go on a minute or two to long, but damn, that was a great heel promo. He played the crowd perfectly.

Not to enthused about them picking the big show as his fued though, Just not a fan of show.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Watching Smackdown, and I hugely enjoyed Edge & Christian... for about 2 minutes. After that they went in such an odd direction it lost me. This is probably just me, but I have no interest in Edge vs Christian. I want to see them be friends, I want to see them be a tag team, so the entire segment fell flat to me. It also seemed a bit of a throwaway... Decades of real history, a formerly successful tag team that has been apart for so long, the storyline possibilities were huge. You could have stretched this one promo out over 3 fantastic months. Reunite, friends, Edge subtly uses Christian to get what he wants, then less subtly, then blatantly, break up, heated feud. Could have been great. Instead we got this, which was fun, but I found it... unsatisfying.


You say that, which I agree with, but luckily something the WWE loves to do is stuff things under the rug later on. Sure, we saw what we saw with Edge and Christian but I'm sure a few years down the line, they could well bring it all back. Do like one of them getting injured, coming back and reforming the long lost tag team again, whether heel or face.

[The Shape]

You say that, which I agree with, but luckily something the WWE loves to do is stuff things under the rug later on. Sure, we saw what we saw with Edge and Christian but I'm sure a few years down the line, they could well bring it all back. Do like one of them getting injured, coming back and reforming the long lost tag team again, whether heel or face.

A few years? They're not young, and people will care less.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I didn't wanna say months cause that'd sound a bit too early and there's already the brewing discussion of Edge and Christian culminating at Mania(not calling it), a year or so later sounds fine. Either way, they're not THAT old either, they have a few years left in them.. Christian at least, dunno about Edge. And I'm sure as soon as the possibility comes up, people will care as much. WWE can easily make everyone care again.

[ampulator]

Does no one see the pattern?

Edge vs. Chris Jericho
Edge vs. Randy Orton
Edge vs. Christian

Maybe it's Edge against all his partners?

[shawn michaels 82]

I completely disagree with the IWC about this one. Bring Christian and Edge back? No sir. They're main eventers now, their tag team was long time ago, you should never return to where you were once happy. Life moves on and i want to see new things. But that's just me, cause i'm sure the WWE would find a way to make it suck. anyway but seriously,i think people need to stop with the nostalgia. Today some people ask for E&C, tomorrow maybe the Brothers of Destruction (just an example)...i mean...seriously? We play TEW for crying out loud, we're supposed to hope for bether things then little nostalgia acts.

[Self]

I completely disagree with the IWC about this one. Bring Christian and Edge back? No sir. They're main eventers now, their tag team was long time ago, you should never return to where you were once happy. Life moves on and i want to see new things. But that's just me, cause i'm sure the WWE would find a way to make it suck. anyway but seriously,i think people need to stop with the nostalgia. Today some people ask for E&C, tomorrow maybe the Brothers of Destruction (just an example)...i mean...seriously? We play TEW for crying out loud, we're supposed to hope for bether things then little nostalgia acts.

Normally I'd agree with you. For example, I'm not a fan of TNA reuniting The World's Greatest Tag Team because it's looking to the past instead of the future. Where I think Edge & Christian are different is that they've been apart for a good 8 years, and in that time their characters have developed and evolved in major ways. Edge became the ultimate opportunist and married Vickie Guerrero, and is an altogether more volatile and unpredictable character than in the happy-go-lucky E&C days. Christian... well they can't mention his TNA thing, but he changed too. More confident. Less creepy. Bottom line, they're different people now, and the relationship wouldn't be a re-hash, a nostalgia act, a kazoo-infested montage of 5-second-poses. It would be weirdly different, like talking to your old high school friends at a reunion. There's drama there that excites me.

... but I will concede that I'm biased. I love Edge & Christian, and I love the idea of main event tag teams. My desire for a reunion isn't a rational one, it's not about 'good for business' or even 'good drama'. It comes from the irrational heart. I loved their team. I want to see it again. Nothing more. Nothing less.

P.S. I'd also enjoy Brothers of Destruction. Again, Main Event tag team, and the only time I've enjoyed Kane is when he was around his brother.

[shawn michaels 82]

Normally I'd agree with you. For example, I'm not a fan of TNA reuniting The World's Greatest Tag Team because it's looking to the past instead of the future. Where I think Edge & Christian are different is that they've been apart for a good 8 years, and in that time their characters have developed and evolved in major ways. Edge became the ultimate opportunist and married Vickie Guerrero, and is an altogether more volatile and unpredictable character than in the happy-go-lucky E&C days. Christian... well they can't mention his TNA thing, but he changed too. More confident. Less creepy. Bottom line, they're different people now, and the relationship wouldn't be a re-hash, a nostalgia act, a kazoo-infested montage of 5-second-poses. It would be weirdly different, like talking to your old high school friends at a reunion. There's drama there that excites me.

... but I will concede that I'm biased. I love Edge & Christian, and I love the idea of main event tag teams. My desire for a reunion isn't a rational one, it's not about 'good for business' or even 'good drama'. It comes from the irrational heart. I loved their team. I want to see it again. Nothing more. Nothing less.

P.S. I'd also enjoy Brothers of Destruction. Again, Main Event tag team, and the only time I've enjoyed Kane is when he was around his brother.

Actually you made an excellent point. I spent the last 3 day talking to my high school friends whom i hadn't heard of in 11 years and i can understand what you mean. Also agree on what you say about kane. And Edge is my #1 now that HBK is gone, and i also dig Christian a lot, so maybe it could actually be both: good for us and for the business.

[Tha Black Phenom]

There would be much more potential in bringing back Edge and Christian than they did with DX anyway. With E&C there's a multitude of ways you can go with them, they could both be super heels or super faces. Considering their position in the card, there's so many places to go, even beyond the tag team titles.

I'm all against nostalgic acts that are needless, which is probably what you meant. I mean, suggestions like bringing back Brothers of Destruction(rather prefer this once-in-a-blue-moon deal they have with Taker and Kane now) or a bWo rehash or a comedy Goldust push I can understand, but Edge and Christian can still go, and they're a major angle away from making it happen. Well not now that is. But either way, it will happen soon enough, sure of it.

[shawn michaels 82]

There would be much more potential in bringing back Edge and Christian than they did with DX anyway. With E&C there's a multitude of ways you can go with them, they could both be super heels or super faces. Considering their position in the card, there's so many places to go, even beyond the tag team titles.

I'm all against nostalgic acts that are needless, which is probably what you meant. I mean, suggestions like bringing back Brothers of Destruction(rather prefer this once-in-a-blue-moon deal they have with Taker and Kane now) or a bWo rehash or a comedy Goldust push I can understand, but Edge and Christian can still go, and they're a major angle away from making it happen. Well not now that is. But either way, it will happen soon enough, sure of it.

Say what? I kind of got lost there. Slang such as blue moon deals is not part of my english vocabulary yet. :D
And yes, i was talking about needless nostalgic acts. but i can agree on the E&C potential.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Ah, meant how they tag team occasionally every once in a while without there being anything official. Last time they teamed was against JeriShow I believe.

[ampulator]

I'm fine with E and C not returning. It's not like it's necessary. I do think it's a shame they turned Edge in such a way, but what's been done is done.

What my concern is that RAW is way too stack in terms of stars. Guys like Miz and Morrison have no room to breathe. On the other hand, SD doesn't have enough to draw fans in.

For those who doubted they were eventually getting rid of the brand split, there is stronger evidence now.

[shawn michaels 82]

I'm fine with E and C not returning. It's not like it's necessary. I do think it's a shame they turned Edge in such a way, but what's been done is done.

What my concern is that RAW is way too stack in terms of stars. Guys like Miz and Morrison have no room to breathe. On the other hand, SD doesn't have enough to draw fans in.

For those who doubted they were eventually getting rid of the brand split, there is stronger evidence now.

I seriously doubt they are getting rid of the brand split. They haven't even debuted SD on ScyFi and you are already killing it? Vince would never do something like that, cause he need Sd. He loves money and droping Sd would hurt his pocket. Edge's turn was...how can i put this? Preposterous!

[ampulator]

You are mistaken. I never said he would drop SD. I'm saying he might drop the brand split. Those are two distinct things.

Just so we are clear, he can keep SD, but drop brand split if he wanted. Actually, he could also do vice-versa, but that wouldn't happen, unless something forced his hand.

[Hyde Hill]

If anybody is interested I found a link for a cheap, wink wink, version of the Kendrick and London shoot interview, send me a pm if you want it.

[BurningHamster]

If anybody is interested I found a link for a cheap, wink wink, version of the Kendrick and London shoot interview, send me a pm if you want it.

That is a bizarre but very entertaining shoot but also covers a lot of pretty interesting things. I popped huge for London talking about Richard Hoagland conspiracy theories (why do stoners ALWAYS go in for that sort of nonsense?)

[Hyde Hill]

I loved the preview and I really liked the shoot, 3 hours non stop entertaining imho.

[fatallylost]

That is a bizarre but very entertaining shoot but also covers a lot of pretty interesting things. I popped huge for London talking about Richard Hoagland conspiracy theories (why do stoners ALWAYS go in for that sort of nonsense?)

Hey now, not all theories are bs.

[BurningHamster]

Hey now, not all theories are bs.

Did I say they were?

I just recognized a correlation between above average marijuana use and a propensity to take an interest in outlandish conspiracy theories. I popped for it though because I was somewhat familiar with the Hoagland theories and know they are hilariously odd.

[fatallylost]

Did I say they were?

I just recognized a correlation between above average marijuana use and a propensity to take an interest in outlandish conspiracy theories. I popped for it though because I was somewhat familiar with the Hoagland theories and know they are hilariously odd.

My bad. I know Hoagland well, as I listen to Coast to Coast. Some things he says, ok, maybe. But, did you hear the Phobos theory? I saw the pics, but, I wasn't on anything, so, maybe I'm missing the obvious metallic look. Hah.

[BurningHamster]

My bad. I know Hoagland well, as I listen to Coast to Coast. Some things he says, ok, maybe. But, did you hear the Phobos theory? I saw the pics, but, I wasn't on anything, so, maybe I'm missing the obvious metallic look. Hah.

Yeah, I love his stuff like the phobos story which is why the thought of Paul London being into Hoagland seemed so awesomely strange yet somehow fitting. Him and Brian Kendrick just hanging out being stoners and discussing ridiculous theories about artificial moons, amusing times.

[fatallylost]

Yeah, I love his stuff like the phobos story which is why the thought of Paul London being into Hoagland seemed so awesomely strange yet somehow fitting. Him and Brian Kendrick just hanging out being stoners and discussing ridiculous theories about artificial moons, amusing times.

Now THAT should be a DVD.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I gotta say I love SOS. He is really coming along with his promos. He seems alot more comfortable and at ease on the mic. Maybe its because I'm Irish though:p... fella

[PeterHilton]

No..I was about to post the same thing...his feud with Trips got him over and his promos are getting better and better. The accent works, he comes off as a 'take on all comers' bad ass and he's grown in leaps and bounds over the last six weeks or so.

I'm totally sold on him now.

[LoganRodzen]

Batista is leaving shortly. I could see Daniel Bryan getting a win here and shocking the world... I wish. :(

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Batista is leaving shortly. I could see Daniel Bryan getting a win here and shocking the world... I wish. :(

I could see him looking strong but just missing out. If Bats didn't have a title match coming up, maybe he would beat him.

[Hyde Hill]

Would be nice if a (upper)midcarder beat him before he left. Morrison?

[LoganRodzen]

I could see him looking strong but just missing out. If Bats didn't have a title match coming up, maybe he would beat him.

Ahh. I didn't realize he had a title shot coming up. I don't follow as much as I wish I did but that makes more sense. Having him look good (which he has) is really awesome. Batista is selling the submission moves a lot and making him look good.

Would be nice if a (upper)midcarder beat him before he left. Morrison?

Yeah. I was looking at it in 'TEW terms' as I like to say.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Would be nice if a (upper)midcarder beat him before he left. Morrison?

Morrison would be a good shout. He has been waiting ages for that big win to put him in the ME.

[The Final Countdown]

They actually let Bryan last longer than a minute and a half?!

*GASP*

[LoganRodzen]

Yes. Edge is the man.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Edge ranting about being rated R on a PG show... Awesome:D

[PeterHilton]

LOVE Edge referring to the fac that none of of his old 'rated r' material can be shown on a PG show.

[fatallylost]

They actually let Bryan last longer than a minute and a half?!

*GASP*

And Cole didn't say internet nerds once. I'm sure he'll go back to normal tomorrow.

[Tha Black Phenom]

They actually let Bryan last longer than a minute and a half?!

*GASP*

Against Batista, no less. :eek:

Dammit, I missed the Edge segment. But I like this thing they have going on with DiBiase/Morrison/R-Truth. Hopefully it leads to somewhere good and fruitful. Either DiBiase recruits someone else to battle Morrison/Truth or he recruits one of the two by beating them, entrailing a potentially worthy angle.

[Hyde Hill]

My money is on Big Zeke. Vincent XXL style lolz.

[fatallylost]

If Zack Ryder faced Evan Bourne on Raw. Would the universe just cease to exist?

[PeterHilton]

Miz + Jericho = ratings gold!

[The Final Countdown]

Miz + Jericho = ratings gold!
Indeed. Whoever came up with the idea of a Jericho/Miz association is a genius.

[fatallylost]

Mizericho? Cause, I think they can't go the other way, what with the PG ratings (think about it)

[Tha Black Phenom]

Miz and Jericho sounds good on paper, but dammit... I hate Miz and love Jericho, I won't be able to stand that tag team if it happens. Oh dear. :(

That ending RKO was boss, I must say. Great Edge/Orton promo overall actually.

[PeterHilton]

Great segment. Really good show. Brady taking the RKO and then Orton stalking Edge around the ring was EXACTLY how Orton need to be portrayed to keep his character over while working as a face.

[The Final Countdown]

Great segment. Really good show. Brady taking the RKO and then Orton stalking Edge around the ring was EXACTLY how Orton need to be portrayed to keep his character over while working as a face.
Yeah, I really like the fact that they didn't turn Orton into a pandering face, or really change him at all. Pretty much the only thing that's changed is who he's fighting, which is exactly how they should be handling face Orton.

[Linsolv]

Mizericho? Cause, I think they can't go the other way, what with the PG ratings (think about it)

I... I don't get it.

[fatallylost]

Miz Jericho
Miz + ericho = Mizericho
J + iz = censored

[Tha Black Phenom]

J + Miz, take out the M. :p

Anybody heard they've contacted Michael Jordan to be a future guest host? Would mark if it happens, would be decent timing with the playoffs too.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

It would be JeriMiz, not Jiz.

[PeterHilton]

Totally off topic, but I was perusing some of my older DVDs and I started thinking about how much i missed Angle in the E

Isn't it about time he call off this whole TNA thing. Go back to Vince, work a couple more years as a special event MOTY attraction ala HBK and UT and get a 4 disc set released sometime in the next few years.

[LoganRodzen]

I thought the backstage segment between Jericho and Miz was awesome. They both bring a different type of charisma but are identical in terms of character - they're just arrogant SOBs.

[alden]

Totally off topic, but I was perusing some of my older DVDs and I started thinking about how much i missed Angle in the E

Isn't it about time he call off this whole TNA thing. Go back to Vince, work a couple more years as a special event MOTY attraction ala HBK and UT and get a 4 disc set released sometime in the next few years.

is angle really on the level of taker or hbk? Don't get me wrong but is angle a reason to order a ppv?

[TheEdgeOfReason]

is angle really on the level of taker or hbk? Don't get me wrong but is angle a reason to order a ppv?

Angle is on that level. Pretty much evrything the guy has done has been entertaining. Hell he even made that invitational thing good. He is second to none in the ring. I would love to see him have a program with Edge now, or somebody like Miz.

[ampulator]

Totally off topic, but I was perusing some of my older DVDs and I started thinking about how much i missed Angle in the E

Isn't it about time he call off this whole TNA thing. Go back to Vince, work a couple more years as a special event MOTY attraction ala HBK and UT and get a 4 disc set released sometime in the next few years.
He's not going back yet because he has to get his life a bit more straight first. Plus, he's getting a boatload of money for doing less work.

And two, I'm not sure Vince want's to give Angle a reduced schedule. I'm not saying Vince doesn't want him back... just not give a reduced schedule.

[alden]

I am assuming angle is clean now....or more so then when he was in the wwe? If he is not then there is no way the wwe would ever bring him back post benoit....Just think of the pr nightmare if something happend to angle while he was on there roster. Wrestling still has not recovered from what happend.......a second one would hurt them even more.

[ampulator]

The other reason he's staying is because he likes to go all out on ALL his matches. He's one of those guys that rarely hold back. He even said himself.

[Tha Black Phenom]

He was.. well, not a train-wreck in the WWE, but he wasn't good either. Just looking at him now, you can see how TNA has done the world of good to him. He looks sleeker, he's more agile and versatile in the ring overall. It's like he kinda needed this, but indeed I immensely miss him in the WWE too. In my fantasy world, I'd have him back there in a heartbeat and work a limited schedule.

[lazorbeak]

Just watched Raw: great show. Obviously cherry-picking some of the best guys in the company will do that for you.

Thoughts, in no particular order:

-Daniel Bryan may never be a world champ, but he could definitely be a long-time worker for WWE based on the performance he got out of Batista. That was a really solid TV match. Featuring Batista!

-good to see John Morrison will continue to be on TV. That guy's awesome and needs to be in a title picture or doing something of note. He just looks like he should be a champ at all times.

-Maryse is still really green in the ring but she's very good at playing her role. She's just a great heel.

-I don't watch NXT, but I'm not sold on Barrett based on his match with Cena. The best part of the match was Jericho shouting things like "TALK MORE" at King/Cole.

-Miz and Jericho seems like a no-brainer. I'd take the US belt off Miz though as Morrison or Bourne or one of those guys could use it more right now.

Mostly though that ending was spectacular. Edge is so much more in his element at playing the neurotic crazy heel, and his promo on Orton was some of his best work ever. From a writing perspective, I loved how Edge kept changing tactics to try to protect himself before Orton's silence drove him to be honest. At first he said he speared Orton just to make a statement, then tried to bargain with Orton to re-form Rated RKO, but finally he had to admit that he was jealous of Orton's success in light of his own failures. Just a phenomenal job by Edge, who I've always been a mark for, getting back into his groove. I think the face turn could have worked given more time, but Edge has been a heel for so much longer at the top and is definitely more comfortable in that situation.

Great job by Orton, too. He's done pretty much the textbook definition of the soft babyface turn, keeping the same mannerisms and gimmick. It's great to see a bad-ass, anti-hero babyface that is so much based on the fans cheering for him. I still say down the line he's the one that should turn Cena heel. Orton could RKO Cena next week and get cheered for it.

[ampulator]

It's so rare that shows are better AFTER Wrestlemania.. am I the only that thinks TNA got Vince's spark high enough for him to begin make slight changes to make a better product? If TNA wanted a serious ass-whooping in terms of ratings... they got it...