The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[sabataged]

And I'll be there dammit! STL wooooo

Did you get tickets too? Sweet! If you see a guy with 5 kids...thats me lol

[Moe Hunter]

man shut the hell up nobody is even talkin to you
Apparently you have no concept for what an internet message board is. Good luck with that.

All he really has on his side is his look. And even that isn't that special. There are guys bigger than him...
Speaking of which, bad idea to have him stand next to Drew for that segment. McIntyre is the bigger, tanner guy with IMO the better and more legitimate look.

I hated the Ultimate Warrior. I thought he sucked. But you give evidence for, not against, my argument...

That's where you are wrong. My viewpoint isn't special. It's normal. But it is CORRECT.
How sad. You really don't know the difference between Push and Draw. You not liking Warrior is proof that they can PUSH whoever they want, but they won't necessarily DRAW. Drawing is the part where they... wait for it... Draw viewers in, bring fans to the show, the arena, and especially the PPVs. They draw money.

Warrior did not do this, despite their VERY best efforts to push him.


Sometimes I think no matter what the "E" does people will complain. People hated HHH as world champion he's spent the better part of the last few years hanging out in DX land far far away from the title cept for a Randy Orton feud.

Yeah, he didn't spend all of 2008 with or around the title, feuding with Orton, Cena, Khali, Edge, Kozlov, Hardy... His 2009 Title feud with Orton wasn't 6 months long... Triple H knows exactly how to stay out of the Title picture.

[supershot]

Im not sure I liked Sheamus winning the title, but Im not gonna knock it until we see what WWE has planned.

Btw, anyone catch Shelton bust open Christain? I lol'd when everyone started chanting "we want blood!"

[Self]

Speaking of which, bad idea to have him stand next to Drew for that segment. McIntyre is the bigger, tanner guy with IMO the better and more legitimate look.

I find McIntyre's look rather boring. He's a tall white guy with long brown hair. I'd struggle to pick him out of a line-up. Sheamus on the other hand looks like a freak, and I mean that in the best way possible. Fiery red hair all wild and untamable, standing out all the more due to his paleness. He's unique, and I love that.

[Derek B]

OMG!! Sheamus actually won!! :D

I like the guy and totally didn't expect to see him win the title, especially so soon after getting on the main WWE roster. I've enjoyed what I've seen of him and I've heard good things about some of his character from before the WWE... I can easily see him developing into a pretty interesting wrestler down the line but most of all I'm really happy to see him win. Not that I've got anything against Cena, he's great at what he does and under-estimated by the IWC in general... I just like new things and change, which this definitely is. Awesomeness!

Also, even though I rarely watch the WWE I've always read along with the results of all three brands. I've been impressed with the general impression I've been getting with them lately, it seems like they are trying to develop a new generation of people who can be treated like stars which is GREAT! TNA has been doing the same thing too and I've been very happy with them lately, so all in all I'm quite high on wrestling at the moment. And with TEW2010 coming out sometime in the next few months, the world of wrestling looks good. :D

[Adam Ryland]

Just a quick reminder that swearing is against the rules in the Dog Pound, please stop it. Warnings have been handed out, as I'm getting extremely tired of people ignoring a very clear rule.

[Tyler Gadzinski]

I was so disappointed when I heard Sheamus won the belt.. He is a very good in-ring performer don't get me wrong.. but I don't think he pulls enough Merch, or cuts great promos, or works as hard as everyone else there..

I'm happy that WWE are utilizing their younger talent better but seriously? Still this isn't as bad as Khali being champ.

[lazorbeak]

I was so disappointed when I heard Sheamus won the belt.. He is a very good in-ring performer don't get me wrong.. but I don't think he pulls enough Merch, or cuts great promos, or works as hard as everyone else there..

I'm happy that WWE are utilizing their younger talent better but seriously? Still this isn't as bad as Khali being champ.

I guess I don't understand this. He is a monster heel. Of course he doesn't sell merch (even if he wasn't a monster heel who's only been on the roster for a few months). And I don't even know what you mean by 'works as hard.' What do you want him to do?

For those saying a short title reign like this should've gone to Ted DiBiase or someone else who has been around the roster for a few years, I think you're missing the point: Sheamus got the title because he hasn't ever lost to Cena (or anybody on the main roster, as far as I know). This way you can set up a storyline they've never been able to set up before, which is Cena trying to beat a guy that he's never beaten before (although I don't think he ever pinned Undertaker). Part of the common complaint about the Raw title picture is all these guys have faced off before: Cena's beaten Orton and Orton's beaten him, he's beaten Triple H and HBK repeatedly, so while they're all "big" names, it stops being as interesting each month. Now you've got a guy he's had exactly one match with that he hasn't ever beaten. That seems like compelling television to me.

[randomfreeze]

Sheamus is no worse than anybody else that has had the title recently. I watched the opening segement last week with Cuban (because I had to see if he would make a Monkeypox reference :) ) but tonight is the first night I'm planning on sitting down and watching the show in a few months. Not gonna punish WWE for trying something different when all I've asked for is just that.

[Stennick]

Just a quick reminder that swearing is against the rules in the Dog Pound, please stop it. Warnings have been handed out, as I'm getting extremely tired of people ignoring a very clear rule.

I get swearing isn't allowed but its blocked out anyway when you say a bad word so really no one actually sees the bad word its just implied. So can we not imply bad words is that what you're saying? I mean what exactly is the difference between saying the F word since it just comes out as stars and saying "what the freak"? Both essentially imply the same thing yet no one sees a bad word actually being seen in either instance. I mean for all the people on the board know we have edited ourselves from saying the bad word by putting our own stars up there. I could understand receiving a warning if you said something that wasn't filtered such as something disgusting or racist or something that wasn't appropriate but if it gets edited out anyway then I'm not sure what the big deal is. So seeing four stars on a screen is bad but someone can say "God Darnnit" which could be equally offensive to a group of people and there is no warning for that? At any rate I usually try my best not to include in appropriate things in my post so my apologies for the slip up I'm just not sure stumbling across a post with four stars in the middle of a sentence is so offensive that it needs a warning but thats why they pay you the big bucks I suppose.

[Derek B]

I get swearing isn't allowed but its blocked out anyway when you say a bad word so really no one actually sees the bad word its just implied. So can we not imply bad words is that what you're saying? I mean what exactly is the difference between saying the F word since it just comes out as stars and saying "what the freak"? Both essentially imply the same thing yet no one sees a bad word actually being seen in either instance. I mean for all the people on the board know we have edited ourselves from saying the bad word by putting our own stars up there. I could understand receiving a warning if you said something that wasn't filtered such as something disgusting or racist or something that wasn't appropriate but if it gets edited out anyway then I'm not sure what the big deal is. So seeing four stars on a screen is bad but someone can say "God Darnnit" which could be equally offensive to a group of people and there is no warning for that? At any rate I usually try my best not to include in appropriate things in my post so my apologies for the slip up I'm just not sure stumbling across a post with four stars in the middle of a sentence is so offensive that it needs a warning but thats why they pay you the big bucks I suppose.

Swearing is bad... mm'kay. :p

Seriously though, the site filters some words and after the original post is made there is no way to know if you typed stars or swears. This is a board that is primarily used to support the games produced here, games that can (and definitely are) played by kids. And a forum used by kids. So the content (or at least the wording of it) needs to be toned down.

Whether kids know what is being said or not, this isn't a site that is ever going to allow swearing, whether it's perceived or actual. It's better and safer (in terms of potentially making money) for GDS to err on the safe side. To do otherwise would be bad for business. :)

[Adam Ryland]

I get swearing isn't allowed but its blocked out anyway when you say a bad word so really no one actually sees the bad word its just implied. So can we not imply bad words is that what you're saying? I mean what exactly is the difference between saying the F word since it just comes out as stars and saying "what the freak"? Both essentially imply the same thing yet no one sees a bad word actually being seen in either instance. I mean for all the people on the board know we have edited ourselves from saying the bad word by putting our own stars up there. I could understand receiving a warning if you said something that wasn't filtered such as something disgusting or racist or something that wasn't appropriate but if it gets edited out anyway then I'm not sure what the big deal is. So seeing four stars on a screen is bad but someone can say "God Darnnit" which could be equally offensive to a group of people and there is no warning for that? At any rate I usually try my best not to include in appropriate things in my post so my apologies for the slip up I'm just not sure stumbling across a post with four stars in the middle of a sentence is so offensive that it needs a warning but thats why they pay you the big bucks I suppose.

I don't see anything wrong with trying to enforce some degree of standards on the board. You may notice that we have a considerably friendlier forum than most other places on the Net, so clearly the policies in place are having some beneficial effect.

The bottom line is that you broke a rule you knew about, so you have little room for complaint - and unless you're planning to do it a further two times, you won't have any major issues anyway.

It's not up for debate, so the discussion on it ends here. PM if you have a problem with anything.

[MrOnu]

I'm curious to see where they will be going with Shaemus now. I didn't think he would win the belt as he's clearly not over with the WWE crowds. Not his fault though, his build up on RAW has been absolutely horrible. Going through two comedy jobber (Noble and Santino) is not very impressive. Maybe if they had put more emphasis on his ECW work... On second thought, Shaemus winning with the help of a bunch of lower guys tired of Cena like Carlito would have made sense I guess.

Anyone saw the PPV ? How all those stipulations came off ? That's a lot of chairs, ladders and tables in one night, I could see it being repetitive and bland.

[infinitywpi]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say "botched finish". Sheamus was supposed to go through that table on the outside, same time as Cena, to set the next match. Now, we just have to see if management thinks he did that deliberately...

[Bigpapa42]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say "botched finish". Sheamus was supposed to go through that table on the outside, same time as Cena, to set the next match. Now, we just have to see if management thinks he did that deliberately...

You know, I actually had the same thought. Especially with the way the commentators were talking right after, until Striker finally said "Of course he gets the belt - he just won!". Would they have been able to find a way to reverse the decision or restart the match right then?

[The Shape]

You know, I actually had the same thought. Especially with the way the commentators were talking right after, until Striker finally said "Of course he gets the belt - he just won!". Would they have been able to find a way to reverse the decision or restart the match right then?

Probably. Although if that is what happened then I bet they'd just roll with it. Besides I doubt that is actually what was meant to happen anyway.

[lazorbeak]

You know, I actually had the same thought. Especially with the way the commentators were talking right after, until Striker finally said "Of course he gets the belt - he just won!". Would they have been able to find a way to reverse the decision or restart the match right then?

If the script had called for it? Yes. I didn't see the match but I figure it was probably more to sell the shock of the moment than an unexpected finish.

[BHK1978]

And I'll be there dammit! I may not know a single storyline but one thing I think I'll always enjoy is seeing pro wrestling in person. Plus Elimination Chamber in person no matter who's who seems like it should be fun.

Yeah I agree, I love the Elimination Chamber. That and the Royal Rumble are two PPV's that I always try and watch. Even if I am not currently watching the product.

[alden]

The title change did not come as a bit surprise as Wait for it........wait for it......they already filmed the over sea's show and cena did not have the belt......he said when i get you back in the ring it will be diffrent. Shocker but they spoiled a yet to be aired ppv.......lol very intresting.

[The Celt]

Personally I seriously doubt it was botched finish...Cena pretty much launched himself off the top rope for the finish.

And trust me, if they'd F'd up the finish, Sheamus would not have jumped up and celebrated with the belt so fast. He'd be mortified I'd say, I know I would be if I accidentally took the World's top belt from the face of the WWE.

And by the way the reaction of the crowd was great...I've never seen so many WTF faces in all my life. You may scoff, but it really was a shocked silence (and not no reaction like some might claim...how do you not react to a title change)

As where this could go...I don't think the it's impossible for

Kofi Vs Orton Vs Sheamus for the WWE title

John Cena Vs The Undertaker

to happen

As for the World title...Bastista vs either Mysterio or Morrison I think could be the way to go.

[The Shape]

Plus the reactions Sheamus was getting earlier on, during his entrance and when he showed up in Drew's interview, were pretty big. It's a move that makes sense, can't wait to see him on Raw with the belt.

[tristram]

The title change did not come as a bit surprise as Wait for it........wait for it......they already filmed the over sea's show and cena did not have the belt......he said when i get you back in the ring it will be diffrent. Shocker but they spoiled a yet to be aired ppv.......lol very intresting.

I forget exactly how it went down, but it was similar in WCW, when they used to tape the shows in advance at the Disney Studio. I think it may have been the tag titles where the issue was, where a guy got injured or left the promotion or something, and he was still being shown on TV with the belt and on the live shows obviously the belt was on someone else altogether to cope with the loss of one of the tag wrestlers... I can't remember the exact story, but it was something like that.

[Wrestling Century]

Hey, I thought that RAW was live. Isn't it?

[alden]

O yes.....wcw use to do that all the time on there saturday night program. They will film multiple shows at once......some times a ppv would happen in between the filmings and a person would win the title. During the saturday night show the person would not have the belt at one point in the show but the next time they would. This was all pre-internet days so the only people who knew were the dirt shirt readers and the fans in attendence.

raw is live but the tribute to the troops is not. it has already been filmed

[Wrestling Century]

I'm not a fan of Sheamus, but at least WWE is trying something new. I think that this is our first new Main Eventer since 2007.

[alden]

I'm not a fan of Sheamus, but at least WWE is trying something new. I think that this is our first new Main Eventer since 2007.

yah you might be right........wait a tick

kofi
legacy
punk
yoshi tatsu *yes he is a main eventer on ecw*
swagger *again he was a main eventer on ecw*
morrison *again main eventer on ecw*

they all hit main event status post 07 lol

[Franchise22]

Yeah I agree 100% about being skeptical in regards to Sheamus. Who knows he might have a Tommy Rich/Ivan Koloff run with the belt where he holds if for a week or so and then gives it back to Cena. This might just be a test run to see if the fans will buy Sheamus as a World Champion. I think at most he will hold the title until the Royal Rumble and then Cena will win it back at that event.

in a way i truly agree with this. it reminds me of edges first run. it was a shocking way to win, and in my opinion i didnt buy him as wwe championship material. It was there way to test his ability to be the man. they quickly take the title off him and then decide to have a nice buidl to his main event status. Now, however, i DO find him a true main eventer. this could happen with sheamus as well.

[Zeel1]

yah you might be right........wait a tick

kofi
legacy
punk
yoshi tatsu *yes he is a main eventer on ecw*
swagger *again he was a main eventer on ecw*
morrison *again main eventer on ecw*

they all hit main event status post 07 lol

Jeff Hardy's first WWE Title win was in '08 as well, he kinda counts.

[Wrestling Century]

yah you might be right........wait a tick

kofi
legacy
punk
yoshi tatsu *yes he is a main eventer on ecw*
swagger *again he was a main eventer on ecw*
morrison *again main eventer on ecw*

they all hit main event status post 07 lol

They did make CM Punk and Jeff Hardy Main Eventers. But that's it. Kofi and The Legacy are not Main Eventers yet. Why do I say that? Simple. They have not been in the world title picture. Ever. Also, do you ever see any ECW Championship matches Main Eventing PPVs? Nope. So you can count all the ECW Main Eventers as Midcarders IMO.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I think there's a serious difference between main-event status and just being featured in main-events... if you seriously consider Kofi and Legacy as main-event status, then your criteria window must be pretty damn wide.

I think we're talking purely straight legit main-eventers here, not hotshots in ECW. Of course they have no problem building top dogs on ECW, that's what the brand is for...

So the list should come down to Jeff and Punk. Morrison is almost there.

[Tag01]

I have been watching more wrestling lately for the first time in years. I think I'd like Smackdown, but am never home on Fridays. I want to like TNA, and it's not bad but it just really smacks of WCW. And Raw has been decent too, but I'm really over the Guest Host thing. It takes up so much time every week that I feel like they skimp on minor fueds so that Freddy Prinze Jr. can hype some movie I don't want to see. At least ROH is on YouTube.

[The Celt]

I think there's a serious difference between main-event status and just being featured in main-events... if you seriously consider Kofi and Legacy as main-event status, then your criteria window must be pretty damn wide.

I think we're talking purely straight legit main-eventers here, not hotshots in ECW. Of course they have no problem building top dogs on ECW, that's what the brand is for...

So the list should come down to Jeff and Punk. Morrison is almost there.

I criteria for being a main eventer is someone who can draw fans based purely on their popularity, ie Buy a PPV just to see that guy's match.

Alden is right about Yoshi Tatsu on ECW being a Main Eventer. For those bothered to watch ECW he has built up a huge following a people will tune in to ECW just to see his matches,

Kofi Kingston right now is redhot and I think he can just about be called a main eventer because people will tune in right now just to see how he comes out in his feud with Orton. Whatever way it ends he will be solidified in that status.

Morrison is definitely a main eventer now IMO...I think that run with IC tipped him over the finish line. He's ready and credible to tangle with guys like Batista now, with people believing he could win.

Swagger was an ECW main eventer however the transfer to RAW has seen him put on the backburner and he has fallen down the card again, but not so far he can't rise again. It really up to the WWE when they pull the trigger.

Legacy are...hmmm, tough. Their position is strange right now...they seemed to be on the cusp after DX and the tension between Ted and Orton...I think it's going to take that tension and a split for Ted to go supernova at least...I'm not so sure about Cody right now...I think a run with the US title would be far better for him.

[PeterHilton]

So the list should come down to Jeff and Punk. Morrison is almost there.

What he said.

Everyone else that has been mentioned is an upper midcarder at best.

No one on ECW is a main eventer in WWE terms. They go months without the title even being defended on a PPV. That show is basically a AAA feeder show.

[alden]

I guess i am meaning main event on there brand.......a main eventer on a in a indy company is still a main eventer for that company. That is how i tend to look at it.....right now......the main eventers on ecw are regal....kosloff....christian....yoshi....bejamin. ....and jackson. So i call them main eventers in that sense. A main eventer as drawing *there is that word again* then no.....they have not had alot of new ones made lately.

[lazorbeak]

I guess i am meaning main event on there brand.......a main eventer on a in a indy company is still a main eventer for that company. That is how i tend to look at it.....right now......the main eventers on ecw are regal....kosloff....christian....yoshi....bejamin. ....and jackson. So i call them main eventers in that sense. A main eventer as drawing *there is that word again* then no.....they have not had alot of new ones made lately.

To use the game's terms, I don't think anyone on ECW would fit into WWE's definition of a "main eventer" with the possible exception of Christian, and even then, he'd be one of the very bottom "main event" guys. WWE's main event right now is basically Cena, Orton, DX, Big Show, Jericho, Punk, Undertaker, Batista, and Mysterio. I'm probably leaving someone out and Edge is likely a main eventer when he gets back, but those are the guys that you see main eventing pay per views, headlining shows, etc. Kofi and Morrison are both very close to that point, and Legacy were on the cusp during their feud with DX. Sheamus hasn't been treated as a main eventer, but it'll be interesting to see how long he holds the title.

[PeterHilton]

I guess i am meaning main event on there brand.......a main eventer on a in a indy company is still a main eventer for that company. That is how i tend to look at it.....right now......the main eventers on ecw are regal....kosloff....christian....yoshi....bejamin. ....and jackson. So i call them main eventers in that sense. A main eventer as drawing *there is that word again* then no.....they have not had alot of new ones made lately.

Fair enough. But when your show only has like 12 people on it, most of them are technically going to end up in the main event eventually. ;):p

[The Celt]

WWE Announces Mini-Tournament For Raw Tonight
Posted by Larry Csonka on 12.14.2009

The winner to be crowned Superstar of the year…

- WWE has announced that on tonight's three hour Raw, the Superstar of the year Slammy will be determined by a mini-tournament. The first round matches are…

* The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton
* John Cena vs. CM Punk

- The two winners will face, with the winner of that match becoming the 2009 WWE Superstar of the year.


Cena Vs Taker...it's ON!

You heard it here first

[alden]

I hope it is actuly punk vs orton......i would love to see that one.

[The Celt]

I think that's was a dream feud back when Punk was a face. I seem to remember them having a match on RAW I got all excited about but it was just 6 minutes long so they didn't get to show much.

WWE never really does heel vs heel, but personally I think that fine because heels are supposed to be hated so why would a crowd want to see two guys they hate in a match? you know, barring smarks.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Loving Y2J's beard. Pretty good opening montage with the guest host too.

[masterded]

Man I just started watching Raw on my DVR (so I am like 30 min behind), but damn is Dennis Miller bombing. I mean either no reaction or a few cheers with a few more boos thrown in. What a bad choice for a guest host.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Sheamus' Slammy speech definitely made me gain more confidence in him.

[Remianen]

Man I just started watching Raw on my DVR (so I am like 30 min behind), but damn is Dennis Miller bombing. I mean either no reaction or a few cheers with a few more boos thrown in. What a bad choice for a guest host.

Well to be fair, WWE's audience isn't Dennis Miller's typical audience. I'll not say any more than that (to stay outta trouble :p).

Match of the Year is Taker-Michaels or somebody needs a lobotomy.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Taker-HBK 2?

Gets my vote, if neither has the strap by then why not, it was excellent first time around.

[masterded]

Well to be fair, WWE's audience isn't Dennis Miller's typical audience. I'll not say any more than that (to stay outta trouble :p).

Shouldn't the WWE know that?

Plus (IMHO) he isn't that funny, he just uses big words to make his average jokes appear smart. I prefer jokes that make you think about the idea or the more story teller style.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Wow, was that scripted, Vince didn't look happy anyway:D. Dennis is bombing, but I like him, he's just not the slapstick that the crowd would buy.

EDIT: btw I really hate that WWE dropped O'Shaughnessy from Sheamus' name, SOS was an awesome name, Sheamus just sounds stupid and its spelled wrong too.

[PeterHilton]

Did John Cena just channel the spirit of Tim Tebow?

I mean...the orange and blue..he whole move on and work harder..not gonna lose again...?

EDIT: hang on here's the speech:

To the Fans and Everybody in
Gator Nation, I'm Sorry.
I'm Extremely sorry. We were
hoping for an undefeated season.
That was my goal, something
Florida has never done here.

I promise you one thing, a lot
of good will come out of this.
You will never see any player in
the entire country play as hard
as I will play the rest of the
season. You will never see
someone push the rest of the
team as hard as I will push
everybody the rest of the season

And here's a partial recap of Cena:

He says every time you fail its painful, and it causes sadness. Especially as he saw last night it causes disappointment. He says a man's character is not judged by how he celebrates victory, but what he does when his back is against the wall. He says there are some who were so offended by his actions last night that they might have lost faith in him, and he points out a "WE HATE CENA" guy in the front row and says he respects his decision to do so. He says he's not talking to them, but instead he's talking to those who are still in his corner. He says if you haven't given up on him, then he won't give up on you. He says WWE Universe is his everything, and he says what happened at TLC will never happen again. He says it is time to set the record straight, and his road to Wrestlemania starts now. He won't be stopped, and he can't be stopped. He says if you want a headline for WWE.com it's that he will not lose another match until he once again is WWE Champion

Good lord, can this version of Cena get any more over-the-top cheesy?

[TracyBrooksFan]

Any one wants HBK vs Taker II at Mania?

[PeterHilton]

Any one wants HBK vs Taker II at Mania?

Not really. The Rumble. I'd rather see HBK/HHH and Cena/Taker at WM

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I was actually loling at Masters and Carlito there.

[PeterHilton]

"This is more like The Source awards.." - Matt Stryker after the Hardy/Master/Carlito brawl.

Holy crap! Now THAT was funny.

[PeterHilton]

And NOW a Kante spoof by Batista...the E must be hiring younger writers.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Something tells me Batista pitched for that himself. Hilarious moment.

And I thought HBK would win the "oh my!" one for kicking off that little annoying chick's head, oh well xD

[Eisen-verse]

Okay... So I admit... I haven't watched WWE in a few weeks... BUT...

How the HELL did Sheamus (or however you spell it) win the WWE Championship? I mean, great for them to create a new superstar but... What? No build up? Just a big title win right away? I was a little shocked by this seeing how he just joined RAW it seemed.

[SaySo]

Okay... So I admit... I haven't watched WWE in a few weeks... BUT...

How the HELL did Sheamus (or however you spell it) win the WWE Championship? I mean, great for them to create a new superstar but... What? No build up? Just a big title win right away? I was a little shocked by this seeing how he just joined RAW it seemed.

It started a few weeks ago. And during that time, he won the breakthrough battle royal...he put John Cena through the table. He put Mark Cuban through the table. And he beat Chena at TLC. Like Sheamus had said for the last three weeks, "I'm going to beat Cena because i can. I'm going to win the championship because i can." He accomplished that in a short time on Raw....because he can.

[PeterHilton]

Okay... So I admit... I haven't watched WWE in a few weeks... BUT...

How the HELL did Sheamus (or however you spell it) win the WWE Championship? I mean, great for them to create a new superstar but... What? No build up? Just a big title win right away? I was a little shocked by this seeing how he just joined RAW it seemed.

Pretty sure that was what everyone else was thinking.

I also think they dropped the ball a little by not having him follow up with a dominant win over somebody tonight.

[Eisen-verse]

It started a few weeks ago. And during that time, he won the breakthrough battle royal...he put John Cena through the table. He put Mark Cuban through the table. And he beat Chena at TLC. Like Sheamus had said for the last three weeks, "I'm going to beat Cena because i can. I'm going to win the championship because i can." He accomplished that in a short time on Raw....because he can.

Wow, I missed a lot in a few weeks. haha.

I saw the clip of him putting Cuban through a table on ESPN, however, I thought it was just a ploy for the WWE to get a new superstar of theirs some exposure with a greater fringe audience. I had no idea that he was either already the champ or a soon to be one.

I mean, as I said, great for the WWE to put the ball in someone else's hands for once... but.... Maybe a build would have been nice? Just giving someone a title doesn't make them a Main Eventer... Then again, these days in wrestling it seems that it does.

[Wrestling Century]

Not really. The Rumble. I'd rather see HBK/HHH and Cena/Taker at WM

I actually want The Undertaker vs Rey Mysterio at 'Mania. Why? Because 'Taker vs Cena already happened at Vengeance 2003, and while it was a fantastic match, I would rather have a match that I've never seen before be at 'Mania.

[PeterHilton]

I actually want The Undertaker vs Rey Mysterio at 'Mania. Why? Because 'Taker vs Cena already happened at Vengeance 2003, and while it was a fantastic match, I would rather have a match that I've never seen before be at 'Mania.

Interesting. I see virtually no way to build a story leading up to Taker/Mysterio. :o

[Wrestling Century]

Interesting. I see virtually no way to build a story leading up to Taker/Mysterio. :o

Just think about it. Mysterio and 'Taker have both had some of the best matches of their career this year. I'd say that both of them are in their primes (and yes I know that they are both going to retire soon). Also, HBK vs 'Taker didn't have much build up. The story was basically that Shawn wanted to break 'Taker's streak. So why couldn't they do that for Mysterio vs 'Taker? :confused:

[Remianen]

Shouldn't the WWE know that?

Plus (IMHO) he isn't that funny, he just uses big words to make his average jokes appear smart. I prefer jokes that make you think about the idea or the more story teller style.

*shrug* It's a personal thing. I like Dennis Miller (and Bill Maher and Ron White ("I was gonna!"), etc) and despise people like Dane Cook who are funnier to themselves than they are to anyone else. I mainly like Dennis Miller because he's an intelligence test (IMO). Half the references he makes requires people actually know stuff. But I would agree that WWE should've known better since he's not appealing to their audience. In fact, they would've been far better off with Dane Cook than Dennis Miller. I mean, he called Triple H "The Show". :p

I liked a lot about this episode though. Masters and his schtick, Vicki & Santino, I loved how Randy Orton sold the chokeslam after he "beat" Taker though I didn't like how Punk got....well, punked. It fit but I didn't personally like it. King's joke about Mark Henry and computer dating was good too.

[PeterHilton]

Just think about it. Mysterio and 'Taker have both had some of the best matches of their career this year. I'd say that both of them are in their primes (and yes I know that they are both going to retire soon). Also, HBK vs 'Taker didn't have much build up. The story was basically that Shawn wanted to break 'Taker's streak. So why couldn't they do that for Mysterio vs 'Taker? :confused:

I mean..they could...but at this point Taker's character is a little bigger than life.

And with retirement seemingly around the corner, they NEED Taker to face off against someone else a little bigger than life at Mania.

Rey just doesn't fit the bill. Kinda think he ends up in MITB.

[thatoneguy]

I thought Rey had to get surgery on his knees again, but this time it might actually keep him out of the ring...Was that wrong?

[PeterHilton]

I thought Rey had to get surgery on his knees again, but this time it might actually keep him out of the ring...Was that wrong?

It looks like it. The rumor was that the beat down by Batista was done to justify his time away from the ring. But since he never really took time off...seems like the surgery wasn't as serious as reported. Or it went better than expected.

Same thing happened with Show's knee injury a few weeks back.

[BHK1978]

*shrug* It's a personal thing. I like Dennis Miller (and Bill Maher and Ron White ("I was gonna!"), etc) and despise people like Dane Cook who are funnier to themselves than they are to anyone else. I mainly like Dennis Miller because he's an intelligence test (IMO). Half the references he makes requires people actually know stuff. But I would agree that WWE should've known better since he's not appealing to their audience. In fact, they would've been far better off with Dane Cook than Dennis Miller. I mean, he called Triple H "The Show". :p

Nobody is better off with Dane Cook on there show.:D I do agree with you that Dennis Miller is a bit of an odd choice to host RAW. However, what I saw of him tonight I liked.

[thatoneguy]

It looks like it. The rumor was that the beat down by Batista was done to justify his time away from the ring. But since he never really took time off...seems like the surgery wasn't as serious as reported. Or it went better than expected.

Same thing happened with Show's knee injury a few weeks back.

I could be wrong on this, but I was of the understanding that he didn't get his surgery yet, and came back to finish his feud with Batista.

[PeterHilton]

I could be wrong on this, but I was of the understanding that he didn't get his surgery yet, and came back to finish his feud with Batista.

Pretty sure that feud was over at Survivor Series.

[lazorbeak]

Wow, I missed a lot in a few weeks. haha.

I saw the clip of him putting Cuban through a table on ESPN, however, I thought it was just a ploy for the WWE to get a new superstar of theirs some exposure with a greater fringe audience. I had no idea that he was either already the champ or a soon to be one.

I mean, as I said, great for the WWE to put the ball in someone else's hands for once... but.... Maybe a build would have been nice? Just giving someone a title doesn't make them a Main Eventer... Then again, these days in wrestling it seems that it does.

I don't think they're finished building him. As I said earlier, it gives WWE an opportunity to do something new with Cena, which is face an opponent he has never been able to beat.

I honestly can't relate to anyone who doesn't enjoy Dennis Miller. He's hilarious, his delivery is great, and his jokes are typically packed with references. I felt like he was bringing out some of his B-list material but that's only natural since he can't swear and he's talking to a younger demographic: so you can obtuse references to Kanye instead of 19th Century drama.

Also it seemed like everybody else stepped up their comedy game this week. I loved Striker's delivery of "I have seven sisters" and Carlito and Masters' segment was surprisingly excellent. How about a babyface push for Masters? Change his secondary finish to a leaping pectoral press or something. Big Dick Johnson's reading glasses and faux-accent were pretty funny, too.

Also I haven't watched Smackdown in awhile, but it seems CM Punk's evil is so great that even a beard cannot contain it.

[Wrestling Century]

The Slammy's turned out to be a much better show than I expected. Did everybody see Khali screw up virtually every move of the match?

[G-Prime]

He put Mark Cuban through the table.

Awww. I knew I quit watching wrestling too early. I missed Mark Cuban? Did he bring out Cameron Vessey?

I miss Mark Cuban Does DaVE...

[jbergey_2005]

Wow, I guess I have egg on my face. I never thought they'd put Shameus over on Cena.

The funny thing is they have this new title holder but they didnt hardly feature him at all during a 3 hour show. People need to know who he is.

[djthefunkchris]

To me... I use the Title's as a prop when playing TEW. I do this, because I believe that is the realistic thing to do, especially if I base it off TNA/WWE type promotions, but I really don't know of any I wouldn't say the same thing about.

Putting the title on someone that I expect to be main event at some point, even if they are not, is something I would do. However, I dissagree with everyone that's acting as though this particular guy is unheard of, not special, etc.

When Shaumus debuted everyone noticed. It's hard not to remember a name like that (even if you can't spell it). His look is a complete cartoonish look, that's so simple it stands out. When I say it stands out, you know what I'm talking about. The Red hair in contrast with the albino skin, makes for uniqueness that is not easily forgotten. Even in these forums, for all the talk we have had about Koslov, Swagger, MVP, Kennedy, etc.. We talked about Shaumus right off the bat, and just about everytime he did "anything" we thought meant something (at least most did).

I'm not one of the fans of this guy, I liked Swagger (still do) though. As soon as I seen Shaumus, I knew he debuted too close to Swagger, because as easy as someone like Swagger would be to build up, this guy is guarrenteed not to be forgotten. Swagger has everything this guy has, and probably better in ring skills as well... But this guy just has this look that's so dang easy to work with, in a way that will not be hard to build (because of his undeniable unforgettable look).

Put a guy like him on a brand where the Top Draw doesn't mind building up everyone and anyone (litterally) that he can, and it's not hard to say "Hmm, I know what would get him noticed even faster....."

Doesn't mean anything to them if you or me think he needed a storyline that builds him up or not.. To them, that's the story itself... Getting the title first time he gets a chance. It's also something NO ONE expected, yet will say "Predictable" to everything they do. When it's unpredictable, they are accused of being dumb (works this way for both WWE and TNA lately).

Wrestling is, will be, and has always been, an evolving door of innovative storytelling. Sometimes the stories are good, sometimes they suck (more often then not). They have a story for everyone on their roster, and these stories are unfinished till they leave, or retire. Many different people probably write different chapter's in their story. So now we have a NEW champion, that is bassically a NEW star in the WWE.

Merchandise, although a huge part when it comes down to pushes, screen time, etc.. is not the BE all END all to the Belts. IF you remember that the belts are a prop (at least in my opinion), not unlike the briefcase for "Money in the Bank", etc.. then you can easily see why someone such as Shaumus can end up with it. It won't hurt his popularity, it's not meant to give him instand "Main-Event" status, it's just a prop that he has that everyone else wants (or is supposed to desire anyways). It makes him a focal point, and now it's up to him to use that focus to shine. If he can't cut it, this could end up bad for him, or he could fall into the mid-card. Either way, I'm impressed with WWE for taking a risk on someone that has not proved themselves to be a WWE mainstay (at least in my opinion). Something they seem to have been unwilling to do for a few years now.

[Remianen]

To me... I use the Title's as a prop when playing TEW. I do this, because I believe that is the realistic thing to do, especially if I base it off TNA/WWE type promotions, but I really don't know of any I wouldn't say the same thing about.

Yeah, that's why Triple H/Cena/Taker keep carrying the props.

Putting the title on someone that I expect to be main event at some point, even if they are not, is something I would do.

Doesn't make it good business in the short term. Sure it can pay off in the long term sense but that's not guaranteed money. Bird in the hand and all that.

We talked about Shaumus right off the bat, and just about everytime he did "anything" we thought meant something (at least most did).

Actually, if I remember right, I "talked about Sheamus" in fear that they'd misuse him.

Swagger has everything this guy has, and probably better in ring skills as well...

Absolutely not. Seriously, do people not exist prior to signing with WWE?

Merchandise, although a huge part when it comes down to pushes, screen time, etc.. is not the BE all END all to the Belts.

Umm, are you serious? The belt is the central point of most money drawing programs. The only time it's not is when workers are bigger than the title (see: DX, Taker-Michaels, JeriShow). This whole thing is a setup to a 'babyface chases the title' storyline. Now, without the title, what's the babyface gonna chase? Why does he want to beat this guy? What's his motivation? Props are infinitely interchangeable and replaceable. A gun in a fight scene is easily replaced with a knife or a spatula or a pair of panties. That gun doesn't define the fight. A title in this kind of program defines the program. It represents the goal. It's a finish line of sorts. Without a finish line, where and when does a race end?

I think you're oversimplifying things, but that's your right. I always treat titles as a symbol. My top title is always an anointment of sorts. It's me telling the fanbase that this is my top worker (or this is what my top worker is striving for). You think the Vince Lombardi trophy or the Stanley Cup is a prop? I know many who would disagree with that assertion.

[djthefunkchris]

Yeah, that's why Triple H/Cena/Taker keep carrying the props.



Doesn't make it good business in the short term. Sure it can pay off in the long term sense but that's not guaranteed money. Bird in the hand and all that.



Actually, if I remember right, I "talked about Sheamus" in fear that they'd misuse him.



Absolutely not. Seriously, do people not exist prior to signing with WWE?



Umm, are you serious? The belt is the central point of most money drawing programs. The only time it's not is when workers are bigger than the title (see: DX, Taker-Michaels, JeriShow). This whole thing is a setup to a 'babyface chases the title' storyline. Now, without the title, what's the babyface gonna chase? Why does he want to beat this guy? What's his motivation? Props are infinitely interchangeable and replaceable. A gun in a fight scene is easily replaced with a knife or a spatula or a pair of panties. That gun doesn't define the fight. A title in this kind of program defines the program. It represents the goal. It's a finish line of sorts. Without a finish line, where and when does a race end?

I think you're oversimplifying things, but that's your right. I always treat titles as a symbol. My top title is always an anointment of sorts. It's me telling the fanbase that this is my top worker (or this is what my top worker is striving for). You think the Vince Lombardi trophy or the Stanley Cup is a prop? I know many who would disagree with that assertion.

I honestly have no idea what your dissagreement is? You say one thing, but when you explain it, sounds the same to me (just adding something to it). The prop is the goal, or it is the tool. The important thing I guess, is that we agree that the Main title is the focul point (or should be).

Shaumus or Swagger winning it, wouldn't have made me cringe like most have. I don't have a problem with it. Your problem with "people not exist prior to signing with WWE", or question rather of "Do they not?" is in reference to something I said, in reguards to what other's have said/been saying. IN other words, your taking it slightly out of context if you don't take in the rest of the conversations going on in this thread (and other relevant threads). I'm talking strictly in the WWE, as that was what they were talking about (Building up, and such being "rushed").

You completely ignored this part of my post
It makes him a focal point, and now it's up to him to use that focus to shine. If he can't cut it, this could end up bad for him, or he could fall into the mid-card. Either way, I'm impressed with WWE for taking a risk on someone that has not proved themselves to be a WWE mainstay (at least in my opinion). Something they seem to have been unwilling to do for a few years now.
Or you just wanted to repeat it with your own words (talking about the first part of you post that I bolded).

Either way, good discussion. I really don't know if you were debating me or just emphasizing me in a arguementive way? :p

[Self]

From a pure story perspective, Sheamus as Champion makes sense. More than Miz or Swagger at any rate. We've seen those two lose to Kofi & Evan & MVP a ton of times, so without a multi-month build it's in no way believable that they can beat John Cena. Sheamus on the other hand is an unknown entity. We haven't seen him lose, so we don't know his limitations. It's believable. I like that.

I hate how WWE tends to use a bring-in-at-the-bottom-slowly-work-your-way-up way of introducing new characters. Hate it. It takes so long for them to move to the Main Event that I get bored of them. MVP for example, I was really into him for a while, but now he bores me. If he started main eventing, I wouldn't really care. Same with Miz. Same with Swagger. Getting there with Morrison. I'm a HUGE Hardy mark, but when Jeff made it to the top, I... I was happy, but I still turned off Smackdown before the Main Events. I'd already seen everything he could do.

So I really like that they've brought in this new character into a prominant position. I liked it with Koslov. I like it with Sheamus. To me, the lion's share of new characters should shoot right into the Upper Midcard.

[thatoneguy]

Sheamus lost to Goldust. He's not unbeaten.

[lazorbeak]

Sheamus lost to Goldust. He's not unbeaten.

On Superstars four months ago. Pretty sure he lost a match or two in his career. The point is, he hasn't lost to any of the big names on Raw, whereas Miz, Legacy, and even Swagger had been on the roster long enough to lose matches to everyone from Kofi Kingston to MVP to Evan Bourne.

[PeterHilton]

Not only is he not unbeaten, but his "push" was a win over Jamie Noble, some angles where he beat up staff members, a fluke battle royal win, and a couple of brawls with Cena on Raw.

New or not, he has not been written to be presented in any way shape or from that I should be impressed by him.

Whether or not putting the title on him is a good idea will depend on the follow up, but considering he was basically absent during a three hour episode of Raw, I'm still not impressed.

WWE could have used a big celebration angle to put him over, then had him wrestle a 10 minute match and beat a big name clean...or pin Cena in a tag match slobberknocker...man, anything ouldve been better than "win a slammy then come out at the end of Raw and wave your arms around"

:rolleyes:

[PeterHilton]

On Superstars four months ago. Pretty sure he lost a match or two in his career. The point is, he hasn't lost to any of the big names on Raw, whereas Miz, Legacy, and even Swagger had been on the roster long enough to lose matches to everyone from Kofi Kingston to MVP to Evan Bourne.

He hasn't really faced any big names either. That's sort of part of the problem.

[UkWrestleFan]

Not only is he not unbeaten, but his "push" was a win over Jamie Noble, some angles where he beat up staff members, a fluke battle royal win, and a couple of brawls with Cena on Raw.

New or not, he has not been written to be presented in any way shape or from that I should be impressed by him.

Whether or not putting the title on him is a good idea will depend on the follow up, but considering he was basically absent during a three hour episode of Raw, I'm still not impressed.

WWE could have used a big celebration angle to put him over, then had him wrestle a 10 minute match and beat a big name clean...or pin Cena in a tag match slobberknocker...man, anything ouldve been better than "win a slammy then come out at the end of Raw and wave your arms around"

:rolleyes:

He also feuded with Shelton on ECW.

[UkWrestleFan]

He hasn't really faced any big names either. That's sort of part of the problem.

I don't see why it matters too much. Jesse came to RAW a few weeks back, said he was sick of the same old faces getting title shots. So, of course somebody new was going to be threw into the title picture, and in this instance, it was Sheamus.

The way I see it, they've made him a credible threat now. He's put Cena through a table on RAW. How many other people have done that? Then, at the PPV he did it again, only this time the title was on the line. Now, he's the WWE Champion, a main-eventer and a credible threat to the likes of Cena.

Job done, WWE.

[Self]

This reminds me of the "Brock Lesnar shouldn't have gotten a title shot so soon" argument with UFC. It doesn't matter if he hadn't been there long enough to deserve a shot, the point is he BEAT THE CHAMPION. He proved himself to be the better fighter. That's should be impressive enough.

Not saying it's a good business move, or that it'll help buy-rates, but the story makes sense to me.

I don't remember the loss to Goldust, but then I only watch the occasional episode of Superstars... which is probably more than most people. ;)

[randomfreeze]

I watch Superstars more than any other WWE show out there, but it's just because of the timing. Where I'm at, it's on Sundays at noon. So, early church, to the store for beer and food, then Superstars, then 7 hours of football. Perfect Sunday.

[PeterHilton]

The way I see it, they've made him a credible threat now.

I don't see it that way. And based on the crowd response, I think it's still iffy that most other people agree with you.

This reminds me of the "Brock Lesnar shouldn't have gotten a title shot so soon" argument with UFC. It doesn't matter if he hadn't been there long enough to deserve a shot, the point is he BEAT THE CHAMPION. He proved himself to be the better fighter. That's should be impressive enough.


One's a sport. One's a work.

In the WWE perception IS everything. In the UFC, it's scoreboard.

If you don't get people to believe in Sheamus, you run into problems if you stick him at the top of a PPV.

I said it before: if he's handled correctly, it's fine. So far...not so much.

[UkWrestleFan]

I don't see it that way. And based on the crowd response, I think it's still iffy that most other people agree with you.

Fair enough but I still don't fully comprehend how it can be perceived any other way.

He destroyed Jamie Noble, kicked the crap outta Lawler, put Cena through a table and put Mark Cuban through a table. On top of this, he's got a pretty unique and menacing look about him. Lastly, he beat Cena and won the WWE title. So, why do people still think he's not a credible threat? Maybe I'm just being ignorant towards other people opinions? Don't know, but I definitely buy into him as a credible threat. My only gripe is how little time he got on the most recent RAW. They should've capatilized on his big at TLC, gave him a match and have him dominate.

[The Shape]

Based on reactions alone I'd say they're doing fine. I LOL when people go on about people "not being convincing" based on their past or whatever...for most of the fanbase, Sheamus' look alone does all the convincing necessary.

[Self]

One's a sport. One's a work.

Yes, but it's a work pretending to be a real sport. On some level surely it should try to mirror what real sports are like. In real sports, sometimes you get rookie sensations who come out of nowhere and are instantly awesome.

Like Wayne Rooney. Sheamus is the Wayne Rooney of WWE.

[Waghlon]

for most of the fanbase, Sheamus' look alone does all the convincing necessary.

If only his hair was a bit more red and a bit more spikey... But i like the man and im happy he's the champion.

[CQI13]

And of course, when he's not ME at the next PPV, people will complain that the belt should be featured as the ME. There's always something. Like what happened with Punk and his match with Taker.

[PeterHilton]

Fair enough but I still don't fully comprehend how it can be perceived any other way.

He destroyed Jamie Noble, kicked the crap outta Lawler, put Cena through a table and put Mark Cuban through a table.

Three of the people you named are totally meaningless from a "worker" standpoint.

My only gripe is how little time he got on the most recent RAW. They should've capatilized on his big at TLC, gave him a match and have him dominate.

That's the exact same thing I said a few posts back.

Based on reactions alone I'd say they're doing fine.

Monday's Raw was the first time I heard him get any heat. The shows prior to TLC he got basically nothing. Even after the Cuban segment. So...we'll see.


Like Wayne Rooney. Sheamus is the Wayne Rooney of WWE

And I'm sure that'd be a great reference if anyone in the American audience had any clue who that is. :p ;)

[PeterHilton]

And of course, when he's not ME at the next PPV, people will complain that the belt should be featured as the ME. There's always something. Like what happened with Punk and his match with Taker.

The WWE treated Benoit's run and Mysterio's run the same way. And both workers were actually less over once those runs ended

TNA even did this with Christian Cage..he was the champion but he was an afterthought on TV to the Sting/JJ feud.

If they want Sheamus to become a main eventer, one that actually sticks, then he needs to be treated as a main eventer while he has the belt.

[CQI13]

I never enjoyed Benoit or Mysterio's work (talented...yes; entertaining to me...no). Benoit was insufferable on the mic from what I remember. I can't really comment on Sheamus, since I've never seen him work (ring or mic), and I haven't seen a full episode of WWE since Jericho's return (even less of TNA).

If he's not pushed, they are devaluing the belt or not making him credible. If he main events a PPV, some people won't like that either.

As for the Rooney comparison, you might be surprised by the number of people who know of him here in the US. But fine, substitute Tim Lincecum or LeBron James and people should get the idea (even if that is probably far overstating his talent).

[lazorbeak]

The WWE treated Benoit's run and Mysterio's run the same way. And both workers were actually less over once those runs ended

TNA even did this with Christian Cage..he was the champion but he was an afterthought on TV to the Sting/JJ feud.

If they want Sheamus to become a main eventer, one that actually sticks, then he needs to be treated as a main eventer while he has the belt.

Uh, what? How is Sheamus similar to Benoit and Mysterio, and not, say.... CM Punk? Remember how he won the title, main evented zero pay per views, but came away looking like a legit main eventer anyway? Mysterio and Benoit both had other problems, namely they didn't look like champions and couldn't cut promos.

[The Celt]

For those of you arguing against Sheamus; don't even think about getting next drunk next St. Patrick's day...you're barred from the celebrations :p

[CQI13]

Even if I'm not bashing him...I don't drink. So I guess I'm DQ'd anyway.

And what Lazorbeak said.

[Self]

Uh, what? How is Sheamus similar to Benoit and Mysterio, and not, say.... CM Punk? Remember how he won the title, main evented zero pay per views, but came away looking like a legit main eventer anyway?

CM Punk? The guy feuding with R-Truth right now? In what way is he a legitimate Main Eventer? Undertaker tombstone'd him back to the midcard for not wearing a suit. Besides, I'm pretty sure he and Jeff went on last at least once.

EDIT: Ugh. This is an overstatement. Don't take it too seriously.

[CQI13]

Has it been definitively proven that he was in the doghouse? I don't care how reputable a publication is, but I guess my distrust for all news (or "news") media extends to this as well.

[Self]

Actually I don't think he's in the doghouse (that was me playing the whiny smark card). I'm more inclined to believe it's luck-of-the-draw. WWE wanted to do Undertaker vs Batista, which left CM Punk out in the cold for a while. Maybe he's a little in the doghouse, but I doubt they're that petty.

I just remember folks on here defending the Undertaker winning the belt by saying "... Punk will get the rub when he wins the belt back." Well where's Punk's rub, dudes? Where is it? He's back to where he was last year, except heel and with a bit more time on the microphone.. so I guess he has moved up a little. Not as high as he was with Jeff, but not too shabby. Ye Oldetaker didn't kill him completely.

... /giggle

[The Celt]

CM Punk is a great example of how smarks think they know the full extent of the business yet have as little information as any other fan. Right now you can believe the reports that CM Punk is in a "doghouse" over a supposed attire incident or you can believe the reports that the WWE are trying to get R-Truth into the main event by feuding him with Punk. It can be logically argued either way but the bottom line no one can say for sure.

[Wrestling Century]

I've just finished reading Mick Foley's first book and I am starting on his second one (and yes, I am behind the times :rolleyes: ). Anyways, on to my point. After reading his book I've realised that the majority of things that us smarks think is going on backstage are usually 80% not true, 15% over exaggerated, and 5% true (and no, Mr. Foley didn't say any of that in his book, it is my own opinion). And seriously, Punk being in the doghouse for not wearing a suit? That doesn't even sound like fact IMO. Wrestlers have NEVER worn fancy suits around everywhere! As a matter of fact, the only place that I've every seen wrestlers dressed up nice was at the HOF ceremonies and at angles! Just my two cents.....that don't mean crap! :p

[Tha Black Phenom]

It's a shame, indeed. But it's something which won't go away anytime soon. Even these days, the WWE make it specifically so we don't rely on reports, coming up with random swerves every now and then, which I like for the most part. Because of that, reports have dwindled a tad today. Just a few years ago, they had reports shelling out of which Mania matches were pegged to happen when we were only around Armageddon-Rumble season, who was pegged to win the Rumble, even crucial future feuds such as "X is penciled to work a program with Y". I've always found that irking me and really steered clear off it. At least now, it's toned down a bit. You see some of that here and there, but not as much. Now, the buzz is pretty much only who Taker's gonna face at Mania, and maybe potential Mania main-events although they need to get rid of that too.

[XxFutureLegend112xX]

Source: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter

According to a WWE source who would have full knowledge of the situation, Bret Hart has indeed signed a short-term talent contract with World Wrestling Entertainment,

The WWE Hall of Famer signed the this past week and it will cover the period from 1/1 to 4/10, or through WrestleMania and about two weeks after the 3/28 show at the University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale, AZ.

Hart simply told a reliable source that he wasn't going to lie about anything and thus wasn't going to comment on this story.

It was said that Hart wanted his signing to be kept quiet and his return to be a surprise, but that WWE couldn't help itself but all but announced it publicly on the first RAW after the ink was dry.

[Self]

Went to a RAW house show a couple of years ago, and afterwards from the Hotel Bar I saw a few of the wrestlers leaving. All wore suits. Hacksaw Jim Duggan wore a suit.

[thatoneguy]

I've just finished reading Mick Foley's first book and I am starting on his second one (and yes, I am behind the times :rolleyes: ). Anyways, on to my point. After reading his book I've realised that the majority of things that us smarks think is going on backstage are usually 80% not true, 15% over exaggerated, and 5% true (and no, Mr. Foley didn't say any of that in his book, it is my own opinion). And seriously, Punk being in the doghouse for not wearing a suit? That doesn't even sound like fact IMO. Wrestlers have NEVER worn fancy suits around everywhere! As a matter of fact, the only place that I've every seen wrestlers dressed up nice was at the HOF ceremonies and at angles! Just my two cents.....that don't mean crap! :p

Actually, unless it contradicted with their gimmick, almost every major wrestler had to wear a suit in the 80's, 90's, and this century.

[James Casey]

Dress code was laxer a few years ago, but around 2003 or so it was required of all wrestlers to wear smart clothes (basically shirt, trousers, maybe a suit for really formal stuff). Wrestlers like Undertaker, Cena and Austin weren't required to conform due to their characters not being suit-wearers, but for most wrestlers it's the expected standard when on public duty otherwise representing WWE.

[lazorbeak]

This whole discussion is completely a moot point since Jim Ross commented on the "news" with the following:

"Crazy email....CM Punk lost the World's Title because of a "dress code" violation. Please, stop the pain."

[MrOnu]

There's one thing I don't get with they way Shaemus is presented at the moment. With this short buildup coming into a main even title match, I wonder why they didn't use his ECW past to put him over ? I know, most of the time, they want us to forget that ECW exists and they have a sense of continuation in their stories, so in that regard they were logic with themselves. This time though, it would have make sense to refer to the past so we could care more about Shaemus. A good body, beating up comedy jobbers, an annoucer and a non-wrestler... that's all we needed to tag him as the generic heel monster #387. Maybe I'm a little harsh on the guy, he's got talent, but they didn't do enough for me to really care about him.

[LoganRodzen]

CM Punk is a great example of how smarks think they know the full extent of the business yet have as little information as any other fan. Right now you can believe the reports that CM Punk is in a "doghouse" over a supposed attire incident or you can believe the reports that the WWE are trying to get R-Truth into the main event by feuding him with Punk. It can be logically argued either way but the bottom line no one can say for sure.

That sounds like something WWE would do. Push a 37-year old guy you could have pushed 10 years ago. He has what... maybe two OK years left? He'll probably be released by the end of 2011. :rolleyes:

[thatoneguy]

Truth? I doubt it. He looks young, he wrestles young, he's pretty over, and he's got above average mic skills. I'm not saying he's "going places" but I wouldn't be surprised to see him mix it up in the main event a few times.

[The Celt]

Truth? I doubt it. He looks young, he wrestles young, he's pretty over, and he's got above average mic skills. I'm not saying he's "going places" but I wouldn't be surprised to see him mix it up in the main event a few times.

Quoted...for Truth.

I mean if I could do what R-Truth is doing at 37, with those corkscrew kicks and all that athleticism plus those chiselled abs I think I'd be pretty happy with myself and so would my employer.

[Tha Black Phenom]

If they can push Batista at a late age, they can do it with R-Truth too. Or else I'll choke a very.. naughty woman. :mad:

[Tag01]

Where do they have to wear suits? I saw Orton a few months ago in Chicago-O'Hare and he was wearing some afflicition looking shirt. To the midcard with him!

[thatoneguy]

They normally have to wear suits at formal company events. If you're just doing like an autograph signing or something, I don't think people care. I also think that Punk has been in and out of the doghouse more than your average canine at this point, if the dirtsheets are to be believed.

[Astil]

Quoted...for Truth.

I mean if I could do what R-Truth is doing at 37, with those corkscrew kicks and all that athleticism plus those chiselled abs I think I'd be pretty happy with myself and so would my employer.

Dude, where do you work? :p

[jbergey_2005]

There's one thing I don't get with they way Shaemus is presented at the moment. With this short buildup coming into a main even title match, I wonder why they didn't use his ECW past to put him over ? I know, most of the time, they want us to forget that ECW exists and they have a sense of continuation in their stories, so in that regard they were logic with themselves. This time though, it would have make sense to refer to the past so we could care more about Shaemus. A good body, beating up comedy jobbers, an annoucer and a non-wrestler... that's all we needed to tag him as the generic heel monster #387. Maybe I'm a little harsh on the guy, he's got talent, but they didn't do enough for me to really care about him.

This is what bothers me the both about even having brands. They mix these brands so much it doesnt even seem like they are different.

They could have easily had Shameus built up like a complete monster that was destoying everyone in ECW and then have him come to RAW and destroy the Champion in a surprise way.

Instead he just shows up on RAW for no apparent reason, wins a mid card battle royal and his now the champ.

[SaySo]

This is what bothers me the both about even having brands. They mix these brands so much it doesnt even seem like they are different.

They could have easily had Shameus built up like a complete monster that was destoying everyone in ECW and then have him come to RAW and destroy the Champion in a surprise way.

Instead he just shows up on RAW for no apparent reason, wins a mid card battle royal and his now the champ.

It's easier to watch without your smark lenses on.

[jbergey_2005]

It's easier to watch without your smark lenses on.

Im about as far from a smark as you will actually see in this forum. I dont watch ROH and I have no idea who a lot of these guys are and what they've done in the indys.

While a lot of people were calling for CM Punk to get a huge push from the WWE I was hoping to see him come out of his shell and act like a Main Event talent which he eventually did.

I tend to look at things from a fan perspective and a TEW player perspective.

About the only smark in me is actually understanding a little bit about how the business works and coming to this forum.

I am pretty sure the 'smarky' fan actually knows who Shameus is and believes he is main event material while the fan has no idea who Shameus is or why he has the belt.

[thatoneguy]

I'm actually going to say most people have no idea who he is or why he has the belt. Except for some wrestling fans in Ireland, because I've heard he was pretty good in Irish Whip Wrestling.

[The Final Countdown]

It's easier to watch without your smark lenses on.
Please explain what part of his post made it a "smark" comment. Being critical of a decision made by the WWE doesn't automatically make someone a cynical smark, you know.

[jbergey_2005]

That's where you are wrong. My viewpoint isn't special. It's normal. But it is CORRECT.



This is a sure sign you argument was going downhill fast.

The WWE markets who they think will be stars and have had many successes and many failures.(Ken Kennedy anyone?) The E has the money to market these guys but they dont make the performer. He still has to produce results.

You really think the WWF could have become what it was without Hulk Hogan? He was given a great gimmick and he ran with it and made the WWF a hit. Hogan also just was in a very popular movie prior to the megapush.(Rocky III) Vince McMahon is a creative genious but he has had a lot of luck a long the way. Do you think Bob Backlund could have turned the WWF into the #1 company in the world?

Stonecold came out of no where to become a star. They tried to push the Rock and he was hated so that kind of throws your theory out the window. It was when they stopped pushing him he became the superstar.

Cena is just well respected within the company and works his tail off. He has a gimmick the kids love and a look the women love. It was the thing to do 4-5 years ago to hate on him but I think most people have realized what a professional he is and have learned to give him a break for some of his in ring flaws.

Besides its entertainment and at the very least he always has charisma and it appears he shows emotion.

To make a long story short. The E has never made anyone that couldnt produce on his own. If it were that easy the WWE would have 25 International superstars right now.

A creative genious with a lot of money can turn a National Star into an International icon however.

The one guy that McMahon may have made you didnt even bring up from what I seen. The Undertaker. That gimmick made his career. Of course he had to play the gimmick to perfection for people to believe it but that is as close as I can think of as to the E creating a superstar.

[d_w_w]

Please explain what part of his post made it a "smark" comment. Being critical of a decision made by the WWE doesn't automatically make someone a cynical smark, you know.

/nod

Of course, it has quickly become apparent that SaySo has nothing of quality to add to any discussion related to the WWE. His contributions are typically limited to "blah blah blah smark"... as if there was something wrong with being critical and vocal about an entertainment product that a consumer once enjoyed.

[SaySo]

/nod

Of course, it has quickly become apparent that SaySo has nothing of quality to add to any discussion related to the WWE. His contributions are typically limited to "blah blah blah smark"... as if there was something wrong with being critical and vocal about an entertainment product that a consumer once enjoyed.

That's because i have nothing negative to say about the WWE. Status Quo Yo.

/nod

[Self]

It's easier to watch without your smark lenses on.

I'm actually going to defend this comment a bit. We smarks (term used with love) tend to watch wrestling from the back-seat-booker armchair, we look for 'strong builds' we worry about 'drawing' and 'star quality' and all sorts of stuff that never even enters the mind of a mark (term used with love).

To a mark, I'm sure Sheamus makes a lot of sense. He's a surprise, sure. He's a guy who has shown up and, through logical means, become champion. Maybe in the back of their subconscious something doesn't feel 'right', but I'm sure they don't dwell on it. To a smark, the Sheamus thing sticks out because we wouldn't have booked it this way. It's not the 'normal' way to do things, so it's 'wrong'.

RAW is very much easier to watch without your smark lenses on. Most wrestling is. If you watch with your heart and not your head, it's always easier to get emotionally invested in the action.

[Self]

Watching ECW. They changed the Dudebuster's music. It's gone from awesomely ridiculous to the illegitimate love child of Evan Bourne & the MCMG's music. So generic I think I might cry.

On the plus side, their gear matches now. Different colours. Same design. That's an improvement.

[The Final Countdown]

I'm actually going to defend this comment a bit. We smarks (term used with love) tend to watch wrestling from the back-seat-booker armchair, we look for 'strong builds' we worry about 'drawing' and 'star quality' and all sorts of stuff that never even enters the mind of a mark (term used with love).

To a mark, I'm sure Sheamus makes a lot of sense. He's a surprise, sure. He's a guy who has shown up and, through logical means, become champion. Maybe in the back of their subconscious something doesn't feel 'right', but I'm sure they don't dwell on it. To a smark, the Sheamus thing sticks out because we wouldn't have booked it this way. It's not the 'normal' way to do things, so it's 'wrong'.

RAW is very much easier to watch without your smark lenses on. Most wrestling is. If you watch with your heart and not your head, it's always easier to get emotionally invested in the action.
Does anyone actually think about stuff like 'drawing' and 'star quality' while watching the show? Seems like it would suck all the fun out of watching in the first place. I might sit back and think about stuff like that after the fact, but while I'm watching, I just want to be entertained.

That's because i have nothing negative to say about the WWE. Status Quo Yo.

/nod
Nothing wrong with not having anything negative to say. If you're enjoying it, great. But that doesn't automatically make someone who feels differently a smark.

[cappyboy]

Does anyone actually think about stuff like 'drawing' and 'star quality' while watching the show? Seems like it would suck all the fun out of watching in the first place. I might sit back and think about stuff like that after the fact, but while I'm watching, I just want to be entertained.


Ditto. And that's why it's been so hard for me to watch WWE consistently for most of this decade. They don't seem to respect that. They seem to think that because they present themselves as "sports entertainment" rather than "wrestling" that they don't have to worry about things like show pacing or "maintaining the illusion". They make the shows so hard to just get absorbed in and stick with. Even when all the individual segments I see are ones I should have enjoyed, they don't connect in ways I want to wait through the R-Truth interview to get to the Shelton/Jamie Noble match or whatever. I'm always thinking about junk I shouldn't be when I watch WWE

This is one of the reasons I tend to prefer TNA and will probably be watching them on January 4. Sure, they are every bit of sports entertainment-y as WWE is. But they do it so much better in my mind. There's so much more variety of action and things connect better. There's no wondering if I really want to slog through watching Beer Money face Kiyoshi & Bashir and Hamada battle Alissa Flash so I can see Desmond Wolfe face off with Matt Morgan in the match I really care about. The tag teams get love they don't in the E. As do the women. There's a better mix of material and a flow to Impact I just don't tend to see on Smackdown. Been years since my schedule would let me watch RAW with any regularity so I won't judge that show. But if WWE would just respect the illusion so I could shut my brain off and just be entertained, maybe I would rectify that.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Was it me or was that match between the Hart Dynasty and Jimmy Yang and Slam Master J pretty good? And is it me or is anyone else feeling a Yang and Slam Master J push coming on?

[cappyboy]

Was it me or was that match between the Hart Dynasty and Jimmy Yang and Slam Master J pretty good? And is it me or is anyone else feeling a Yang and Slam Master J push coming on?

No, it wasn't just you. That was the only part of Smackdown I saw last night and I enjoyed that match immensely. I've always been a Hart Dynasty fan and the tag team chemistry between Yang and the Slam Master was pretty impressive too. I would hope a Yang/Slam Master push would be coming. That could only be a positive for the tag division on Smackdown. Neither Yang or Slam Master looks like they are anybody the E's going to get into a rush to push solo anytime soon. That makes them just the kind of team that needs to exist more in WWE.

[b0shey]

you know since its hart dynasty vs dx at xmas edition of sd i wonder if they will have bret screw dx out of the tag titles.

[Wrestling Century]

Bah humbug! I don't know what you guys are talking about since I don't have the channel that carries Smackdown!

[Franchise22]

RAW is very much easier to watch without your smark lenses on. Most wrestling is.

i wish i could go back :( instead, technology has made a me an info craving fool!!! must have spoilers!!! must know the inner werkingzzz!!!!! lol

seriously, being surprised by a return or debut is an awesome feeling.

[Remianen]

RAW is very much easier to watch without your smark lenses on. Most wrestling is. If you watch with your heart and not your head, it's always easier to get emotionally invested in the action.

Cop out. Given your particular inclination though, I'll give you a pass. The same crap line is used by bad writers and directors to justify their....well, badness. "Watch with your heart", "Don't judge", "It wasn't made for you" (so who was it made for? Lobotomized mongoloids?). Uwe Boll says the same kind of thing. Repeatedly. The same (or similar) was said about Ishtar and Water World and the first Hulk movie (apparently, fans of the character made the movie suck :rolleyes: ). But you're a screenwriter so I'm guessing you might be too close to the situation. Keep this in mind though: everything is easier to watch/consume...when you turn your brain off (since it's usually your brain that tells you "Wait, this doesn't make sense!" while air raid sirens go off in your mind). You could do 100 shots of Jaegermeister or Everclear....if you just don't think about it.

Anyway, I noticed something while they were setting up for the 'MVP jobs to Sheamus' match. The WWE title belt.....doesn't have a name plate on it. I mean, previously when someone won the title, the very next night on Raw, the new champ came out with his name on the belt...but not this time. It's especially apparent during the tight shot of him in the ring with the belt draped over his left shoulder. The part where the nameplate should be....is blank, a black void, has no plate there at all. Hmmm........

[thatoneguy]

This has been, quite honestly, the worst RAW of 2009. Just....unacceptable WWE. This was terrible. Normally RAW has 2/3 things to help save it from being this bad, but Sheamus/MVP and Cena/Swagger can't make up for this. Just....ugh.

[TracyBrooksFan]

i think Cena was to win at TLC but something happend and since it live they had to go with what happen.

[PeterHilton]

This has been, quite honestly, the worst RAW of 2009. Just....unacceptable WWE. This was terrible. Normally RAW has 2/3 things to help save it from being this bad, but Sheamus/MVP and Cena/Swagger can't make up for this. Just....ugh.

It's obviously your fault for watching Raw with your brain turned on

[Tha Black Phenom]

I just wonder what happened. What the hell happened there. And I'm a guy who often defends WWE and is pretty open-minded about the business, but that was just... erm.. wow.

[PeterHilton]

i think what shocked me the most wasn't how bad the little People's Court was, but the fac tthat someone in back thought it was good enough to do almost an entire recap on.

[MattitudeV2]

Or How about the Tiger skits was that really necessary really I mean come on the Tiger scandal isn't needed in wrestling just like Rosie vs. The Donald.

[thatoneguy]

Or how could we forget our brilliant guest host?

[BHK1978]

i think what shocked me the most wasn't how bad the little People's Court was, but the fac tthat someone in back thought it was good enough to do almost an entire recap on.

and

Or How about the Tiger skits was that really necessary really I mean come on the Tiger scandal isn't needed in wrestling just like Rosie vs. The Donald.

Vince has always had a thing for lame comedy, so no amount of bad comedy that they put on would shock me.

[lazorbeak]

Cop out. Given your particular inclination though, I'll give you a pass. The same crap line is used by bad writers and directors to justify their....well, badness. "Watch with your heart", "Don't judge", "It wasn't made for you" (so who was it made for? Lobotomized mongoloids?). Uwe Boll says the same kind of thing. Repeatedly. The same (or similar) was said about Ishtar and Water World and the first Hulk movie (apparently, fans of the character made the movie suck :rolleyes: ). But you're a screenwriter so I'm guessing you might be too close to the situation. Keep this in mind though: everything is easier to watch/consume...when you turn your brain off (since it's usually your brain that tells you "Wait, this doesn't make sense!" while air raid sirens go off in your mind). You could do 100 shots of Jaegermeister or Everclear....if you just don't think about it.

This would make sense if he were talking about not being critical at all, but I don't think that's what he's saying here. It's not about being bad, it's about applying arbitrary terms you learned in a computer game or on the internet as if they should have some value. "Is Sheamus a main eventer?" "Was the push rushed?" etc. are questions that aren't about the overall quality of the story, they're about how people who know enough to think they know how a business runs can reverse engineer what should have happened. Does this happen in other media? Do crowds at the multi-plex 1) spoil the plot for themselves beforehand and then 2) use their own knowledge of how Hollywood works to say why the movie was bad? And of course, not bad on its own terms, but bad according to an arbitrary set of rules? Even better, do they watch the first quarter of the story, go "this is stupid," and then go on about how they could come up with a better opening act? There's being critical and there's being a smark, and one is not dependent on the other.

On the other hand, evaluating the show as a piece of entertainment, listening to the crowd, and ignoring whatever rumor you read in one of wrestling's many illegitimate news source allows you to look at the show for what it is.

As far as the show itself, the Little People's Court was a bad idea a few weeks ago, and it was a bad idea now. I gotta give HBK credit for making it at least bearable with some of his reactions and his prat-fall when he was almost pulled under the ring.

And really, thatoneguy, worst Raw of the year? Really? Did you miss Verne Troyer's guest-host bit? Jeremy Pivven and Dr. Ken? I mean yeah, Damon was lame, but you still got two great matches out of the show. Cena vs. Swagger was the best Swagger's looked since he was drafted, and the 6 man tag match was excellent, especially Bourne just looking like he was being turned inside-out.

Cena vs. Swagger should've been the main event, instead of the first hour main event.

[thatoneguy]

The Verne Troyer show was bad. Jeremy Piven was bad. They didn't make me feel like this though. Sure Troyer did on his own, but the show itself had a saving grace or two that made it bearable. Like I said, the saving graces of this show weren't nearly enough. And I completely forgot about the 6 man, because nobody cared, it wasn't hyped at all, and took a huge backseat to stupid nonsense like Tiger and Little People's court. And I'll actually say Cena/Swagger should have main evented, because I'm always pro ending with a match rather than a promo/segment/whatever.

[sabataged]

i think Cena was to win at TLC but something happend and since it live they had to go with what happen.

I honestly thought that Sheamus was supposed to go through the table outside the ring, and the match ended in a draw

[Self]

Cop out. Given your particular inclination though, I'll give you a pass. The same crap line is used by bad writers and directors to justify their....well, badness. "Watch with your heart", "Don't judge", "It wasn't made for you" (so who was it made for? Lobotomized mongoloids?). Uwe Boll says the same kind of thing. Repeatedly. The same (or similar) was said about Ishtar and Water World and the first Hulk movie (apparently, fans of the character made the movie suck :rolleyes: ). But you're a screenwriter so I'm guessing you might be too close to the situation. Keep this in mind though: everything is easier to watch/consume...when you turn your brain off (since it's usually your brain that tells you "Wait, this doesn't make sense!" while air raid sirens go off in your mind). You could do 100 shots of Jaegermeister or Everclear....if you just don't think about it.

I'm not saying it should be impossible for a smark to enjoy WWE. I'm just saying it's more difficult for us to enjoy it because of how our brains work. I'm not giving WWE an excuse for some extremely poor shows recently, I just give them a little more leeway on certain issues, like the Sheamus thing.

This would make sense if he were talking about not being critical at all, but I don't think that's what he's saying here. It's not about being bad, it's about applying arbitrary terms you learned in a computer game or on the internet as if they should have some value. "Is Sheamus a main eventer?" "Was the push rushed?" etc. are questions that aren't about the overall quality of the story, they're about how people who know enough to think they know how a business runs can reverse engineer what should have happened. Does this happen in other media? Do crowds at the multi-plex 1) spoil the plot for themselves beforehand and then 2) use their own knowledge of how Hollywood works to say why the movie was bad? And of course, not bad on its own terms, but bad according to an arbitrary set of rules? Even better, do they watch the first quarter of the story, go "this is stupid," and then go on about how they could come up with a better opening act? There's being critical and there's being a smark, and one is not dependent on the other.

I actually do that with movies too :) . I have a degree in Media Production. I've spent 7 years, writing, producing, directing and editing films. So when I go to the cinema, I struggle to watch films like a normal person. I analyse story arcs, character dynamics, mise-en-scene and a hundred other things that probably don't cross normal viewer's minds... at least not on a conscious level. Much like my smarkiness, it's just how my mind works. It's not wrong, but it makes it harder for me to suspend my disbelief and get caught up in the drama. Harder, but not impossible. Not even close to impossible. I watched GI-Joe the other day I found it a perfectly acceptable use of 2-hours... even though in many ways it sucked.

[sebsplex]

This is one of the reasons I tend to prefer TNA and will probably be watching them on January 4. Sure, they are every bit of sports entertainment-y as WWE is. But they do it so much better in my mind. There's so much more variety of action and things connect better. There's no wondering if I really want to slog through watching Beer Money face Kiyoshi & Bashir and Hamada battle Alissa Flash so I can see Desmond Wolfe face off with Matt Morgan in the match I really care about. The tag teams get love they don't in the E. As do the women. There's a better mix of material and a flow to Impact I just don't tend to see on Smackdown. Been years since my schedule would let me watch RAW with any regularity so I won't judge that show. But if WWE would just respect the illusion so I could shut my brain off and just be entertained, maybe I would rectify that.

It's strange as I feel a similar way. Most likely it's down to the fact that I only need to absorb about 2 hours of TNA programming whereas the WWE has around 6 hours a week now including Superstars. The 'flow' of Impact is a little questionable though as some weeks it can be really off... not helped by the splicing of matches and segments that clearly weren't taped on the same night. That sometimes throws me off a bit, like a few weeks ago on Impact they had virtually back-to-back segments involving Borash, yet in the second one JB had undergone a change of clothes... :rolleyes:

As for tag teams and women, it's not like the WWE doesn't give them any airtime or exposure. Hart Dynasty, Cryme Tyme, Legacy and even the prolonged push of JeriShow have all featured regularly on the shows I've wached decent portions of and I think unifying the Tag Titles has helped somewhat. If anything, I guess the E just lack real gatekeepers to the division, maybe a 'fulltime' team like Team 3D. The divas... eh, they generally don't interest me anymore, even though the quality of 'some' matches seems to have improved a bit. I guess it doesn't help that the WWE's casting produces such a dull mix, not to mention that a few too many have been models/actresses-turned-wrestlers (the latter portion used loosely).

Vince has always had a thing for lame comedy, so no amount of bad comedy that they put on would shock me.

In fairness, lame comedy in wrestling isn't a Vince-only thing, although he does seem to have this idea that segments involving little people will be hilarious due to their presence alone.

That being said, part of me misses the Minis on Smackdown. It's a very small part. :p

Does this happen in other media? Do crowds at the multi-plex 1) spoil the plot for themselves beforehand and then 2) use their own knowledge of how Hollywood works to say why the movie was bad?

Yes, certain people do. In fact, I'd dare say that reading some movie forum threads hurt my head more than reading the pro-wrestling threads over at IGN.

[TracyBrooksFan]

Mickie James posted the following on her Twitter page:

"Just got back from a wonderful dinner w my 2nd fam! Saying farewell 2 a man who hs been a leader & inspiration 2 me since my ecw tryout 00" Who has given me the best advice In countless situations. Whom I could never repay but will always respect and love from the bottom of my Heart. There is but 1 Tommy Dreamer aka dream machine! You've paved the way for many. We all are grateful! I love you. Thank you! Muah!"

[lazorbeak]

The Verne Troyer show was bad. Jeremy Piven was bad. They didn't make me feel like this though. Sure Troyer did on his own, but the show itself had a saving grace or two that made it bearable. Like I said, the saving graces of this show weren't nearly enough. And I completely forgot about the 6 man, because nobody cared, it wasn't hyped at all, and took a huge backseat to stupid nonsense like Tiger and Little People's court. And I'll actually say Cena/Swagger should have main evented, because I'm always pro ending with a match rather than a promo/segment/whatever.

Yeah I guess that's why the crowd was so over and Evan Bourne got probably the biggest pops of his career. Your definition of "no one caring" is certainly an interesting one.

I actually do that with movies too :) . I have a degree in Media Production. I've spent 7 years, writing, producing, directing and editing films. So when I go to the cinema, I struggle to watch films like a normal person. I analyse story arcs, character dynamics, mise-en-scene and a hundred other things that probably don't cross normal viewer's minds... at least not on a conscious level. Much like my smarkiness, it's just how my mind works. It's not wrong, but it makes it harder for me to suspend my disbelief and get caught up in the drama. Harder, but not impossible. Not even close to impossible. I watched GI-Joe the other day I found it a perfectly acceptable use of 2-hours... even though in many ways it sucked.

Yeah I have to admit I pay a lot more attention to story mechanics and directorial choices than the average movie-goer, but I don't really complain about it the way smarks take issue with every little thing. Also movies aren't a great analogy because they're not episodic the way wrestling is. I don't know many people who watch soaps with the same hyper-critical lens to make sure that the soap stays true to every soap cliche the way wrestling fans demand they see nothing new (and then complain about seeing nothing new).

[LoNdOn]

I'm actually going to say most people have no idea who he is or why he has the belt. Except for some wrestling fans in Ireland, because I've heard he was pretty good in Irish Whip Wrestling.

Indeed he was. He fueded with Drew McIntyre. He was a very good babyface actually.

[BHK1978]

In fairness, lame comedy in wrestling isn't a Vince-only thing, although he does seem to have this idea that segments involving little people will be hilarious due to their presence alone.

Yeah one only has to watch Kevin Nash and Mick Foley on TNA every week.:D

Vince has always seemed to have a weird obsession with little people and rednecks/hillbillys. And that is going back to the 1980's.

[20LEgend]

Dreamer has gone!

[Wrestling Century]

Dreamer has gone!

I'm hoping that he hasn't retired. Maybe he'll show up in TNA. Or at the very minimum in the indies! I am a big mark for him!

[PeterHilton]

Yeah I have to admit I pay a lot more attention to story mechanics and directorial choices than the average movie-goer, but I don't really complain about it the way smarks take issue with every little thing. Also movies aren't a great analogy because they're not episodic the way wrestling is. I don't know many people who watch soaps with the same hyper-critical lens to make sure that the soap stays true to every soap cliche the way wrestling fans demand they see nothing new (and then complain about seeing nothing new).

I'm still not exactly sure what the point of all this is (and not necessarily to you specifically but moneso to the direction of the topic):

I understand the anti-smark sentiment that gets bothered by the open disdain that some internet fans have with the "today's wrestling" in general and the WWE specifically, but how much of this applies to the people posting in this thread.

I haven't read through the entire thing, but from what I gather, the recent posts contain a lot of negative reaction in recent weeks to some less than spectacular booking and some brutally bad shows

TLC was a good PPV, but you can't honestly believe that going into the PPV the majority of fans had really bought into Sheamus can you? He was getting mixed reactions at best....the people who like him are totaly entitled to like him but was he really built up in such a way that it's A TOTAL SHOCK that there's somewhat of a backlash? Really?

And the Slammys and this past week's RAw were awful. Just brutally bad episodes. In two weeks there's been one segment I laughed at (Batista as Kanye) and one match I really enjoyed (Cena/Swagger).

In 5 hours? How is that a good ratio?

Call out the smarkiness if you want, but I just don't think the last month or so of Raws has been very good, and I usually make it apoint to catch up this time of year because I like the build up to WM. But this is rough.

[Wrestling Century]

I actually enjoyed the Slammy Awards. Is anybody else picking up the World Heavyweight Championship DVD that just came out?

[Tweek It]

So what happen to Jack Swagger? I remember his push and now he loses to Yoshi Tatsu? What the hell?

[Tha Black Phenom]

Apparently the WWE has soured on him. And Ziggler too. Only one of those guys I'm gutted for, and it ain't Swagger.

[sabataged]

Apparently the WWE has soured on him. And Ziggler too. Only one of those guys I'm gutted for, and it ain't Swagger.

Other then Swaggers damn lisp the guy has everything going for him. He is a big athletic guy who can wrestle high impact or slow it down to the mat. He is like a big kurt angle in the ring. If he didn't have that stupid lisp he would be main eventing. He has charisma but they are scared to put him near a mic

[Tweek It]

Cody Rhodes has a lisp as well, but I guess it is expected because he is the song of the American Dream. I like Swagger, but I like Dolph hold lot better. I hope both of them soon gets a push of some sorts again soon.

[Johnny Fenoli]

I actually enjoyed the Slammy Awards. Is anybody else picking up the World Heavyweight Championship DVD that just came out?

Got it.

I haven't watched anything but the documentry part but it's good. It could have been better. But then it would have been 3 hours long. Which would be fine with me. Just so much history of that title that could be covered.

[Moe Hunter]

How do they deal with WMXX to Vengeance 2004 on the DVD?

[Wrestling Century]

How do they deal with WMXX to Vengeance 2004 on the DVD?

I highly doubt that they will even elude to Benoit's title reign. But then again, I don't know, 'cause I don't have the DVD yet!

[Johnny Fenoli]

How do they deal with WMXX to Vengeance 2004 on the DVD?


No mention, that's what I meant by there could be more details. It mainly focuses on the early on history of the title. It doesn't break down title change by title change. I THINK there may have been a glimpse of it in part of a highlight package.

[Basmat01]

Am I the only one that thinks The Abraham Washington Show is great? it creaks me up everytime lol Tony Atlas is gold!!!!

[b0shey]

Am I the only one that thinks The Abraham Washington Show is great? it creaks me up everytime lol Tony Atlas is gold!!!!

totaly agree, at first i hated The Abraham Washington Show but now i think its awesome, tony atlas cracks me up. :D

[thatoneguy]

Tony Atlas certainly has grown on me, but I still groan everytime that segment comes up.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I love the Abraham Washington Show, it's the only show where the guest can have a chance at getting his character and personality across(especially in this day and age of generic personas), even though Abe himself sometimes is a bit over-the-top. Case in point... the last ECW show, I thought he'd never shut up about Tiger Woods. -_-

But this new tag team is quickly growing on me, and a good deal of that is thanks to that talkshow. Especially how they dissed poor Tony.

[Basmat01]

I love the Abraham Washington Show, it's the only show where the guest can have a chance at getting his character and personality across(especially in this day and age of generic personas), even though Abe himself sometimes is a bit over-the-top. Case in point... the last ECW show, I thought he'd never shut up about Tiger Woods. -_-

But this new tag team is quickly growing on me, and a good deal of that is thanks to that talkshow. Especially how they dissed poor Tony.

Yer It seemed like no-one cared in the crowd for the Tiger Woods jokes. Yer Caylen Croft and Tyler Reks was good. I liked it when they complained about having nothing to drink and Abraham like "Hey man this is ECW not Monday Night Raw so you dont get a drink" lol.

[MattitudeV2]

Yer It seemed like no-one cared in the crowd for the Tiger Woods jokes. Yer Caylen Croft and Tyler Reks was good. I liked it when they complained about having nothing to drink and Abraham like "Hey man this is ECW not Monday Night Raw so you dont get a drink" lol.

Don't you mean to say Trent Berretta. Tyler Reks is the surfer that WWE has done I don't know jack crap with.

[InfectedGT]

I think that on January 4th JeriShow will win by Bret Hart doing a screwjob on Michaels.

[jwt13]

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

There is a story going around the WWE locker room about Sheamus, Ted DiBiase and Yoshi Tatsu, who were all three roommates at one time in Tampa, Florida. They apparently all roomed together while they were all training in FCW.

The story goes that Sheamus played “big dog” in the apartment and pissed his roommates off because he allegedly would use their protein shakers and not clean them. Ted and Yoshi confronted him at the same time once. Sheamus got mad and threw Tatsu’s shaker at him but Yoshi caught it. Sheamus then called out Tatsu but Yoshi ended up beating him up pretty bad. There are even reports that Sheamus was on the verge of tears. Yoshi is said to be very good with his hands and has boxed and gone through the New Japan dojo.

When asked if the story was true, Tatsu would only say, “I just wanted to teach Sheamus a lesson in respect. Don’t mess with other peoples stuff.” There was hope within WWE that the story would make its way to Vince McMahon, who has always had the mindset that he doesn’t want people to think one of his World Champions lost a real fight.

I thought this story was pretty intresting. Yoshi beat dat ass apparntly:D

[Wrestling Century]

I thought this story was pretty intresting. Yoshi beat dat ass apparntly:D

If that's true, then that's pretty hilarious, IMO. Just goes to show you that little guys can beat the big guys! But again, it may not be true. Also, what in the world is a protein shaker? :D

[b0shey]

that story cracked me up, Sheamus owned by Yoshi

[djthefunkchris]

JBL getting his knocked around by Joey Styles was better, but thankyou for that story as well:)

[Hyde Hill]

Reminds me of Goldberg and Jericho.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Or another example, Booker kicking Batista's ass.

[Zeel1]

Or another example, Booker kicking Batista's ass.

Not really the same, Booker's a pretty big dude. Everyone else was talking about the "upset wins" in backstage fights.. :p

[Tha Black Phenom]

Still wouldn't put my money on him between the two.

Anyhoo, I hope that story has gotten to Vince anyway. He'd shrug it off most likely.

[thatoneguy]

I highly doubt that actually happened, but I could imagine it happening. Yoshi seems like the kind of guy who could pull that off, at the least.

[Wrestling Century]

Yet again, what is a protein shaker? :D

[Self]

Yet again, what is a protein shaker? :D

Something you use to make protein shakes, I'd imagine.

[Franchise22]

http://www.gerweck.net/news/1262446604.shtml

early mania speculation. if this comes to fruitition, id be surprised. i for one thought sheamus was going to be a short term champ. if he holds til mania, id be shocked.

thoughts on the speculation?

[The Shape]

Honestly right now I could see most of this happening. Although if that was the order and Sheamus/HHH headlined after Michaels/Taker II...lol.

This is of course literally just speculation from whoever made it and not anything remotely link to anything that's actually happened, but it makes sense at least. But early mania speculation usually changes anyways.

[alden]

Just watched smackdown......Laughed hard when punk said he was more then a minor threat.

For thoes that don't know minor threat was the band that created the "straight edge" movment with the song straight edge.

[PeterHilton]

http://www.gerweck.net/news/1262446604.shtml

early mania speculation. if this comes to fruitition, id be surprised. i for one thought sheamus was going to be a short term champ. if he holds til mania, id be shocked.

thoughts on the speculation?

Other than Hart/Vince, there's nothing on that list I'd be interested in seeing or willing to pay for.

[The Shape]

Other than Hart/Vince, there's nothing on that list I'd be interested in seeing or willing to pay for.

Well is there much else you think they could realistically build up to that you would want to see? There's not many other options for especially Cena and Taker to face I don't think, cept each other xD

[Self]

I'd enjoy Jericho/Edge. There's a built in storyline there, and both can give good promo. Never liked Babyface Edge though, and hopefully JeriShow isn't completely does away with so it can eventually lead to an E&C reunion.

I'm nowhere near sold on Vince/McMahon. The story could be good, and I love Bret, but that payoff sounds dreadful. I might be underestimating Bret though, I watched Wrestling With Shadows today and his punches were pretty great... at least compared to to some of the 'play wrestlers' of today.

[PeterHilton]

Well is there much else you think they could realistically build up to that you would want to see? There's not many other options for especially Cena and Taker to face I don't think, cept each other xD

There's months of TV shows and two PPVs between now and WM. They could build to literally anything.

Plus, if I'm WWE, what's more likely to draw the bigger buy rate: a show headlined by Shemus/HHH and Cena/Batista or one with Cena/Taker in the main event?

Pretty obvious choice imo

[masterded]

So their is a rumor going around that James Roday & Dulé Hill will be hosting Raw on 1/25. If this is true screw Bret they are by far my most anticipated guest hosts yet. Man, if they do it as Shawn and Gus it could be the best Raw in years.

[PeterHilton]

So their is a rumor going around that James Roday & Dulé Hill will be hosting Raw on 1/25. If this is true screw Bret they are by far my most anticipated guest hosts yet. Man, if they do it as Shawn and Gus it could be the best Raw in years.

I don't think that's a 'rumor'..they are already hyping it on WWE.com and various news sites as part of a tie in since Cena is going to appear on Psych.
And yeah, that should be good. Those guys have a pretty decent comedic chemistry.

[masterded]

I don't think that's a 'rumor'..they are already hyping it on WWE.com and various news sites as part of a tie in since Cena is going to appear on Psych.
And yeah, that should be good. Those guys have a pretty decent comedic chemistry.

Thank you. Don't go to WWE.com much and can't at work at all.

[Remianen]

Still wouldn't put my money on him between the two.

I would, and I'd take your money TWICE. I don't know why people get fixated on this size thing. I've taken down people three times my size and I'm not even that good (just crafty and fast).

But I can't see them going with an unproven in the main event of the biggest PPV of the year. No way, no how.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Because generally everything else is an unknown factor.. for the most part. Booker probably fights viciously but heck, I wouldn't know that.

[The Shape]

He's from the hood, Batista's just a poser :D

[djthefunkchris]

The fact of the matter is, that no matter how they are portrayed in the Wrestling arena, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with actual skills in a real fight.

To go one step even farther. Any "Sport" that has rules in it (Boxing, MMA, etc.), won't give you a "real life" factor on who would win in an all out fight without any rules at all.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah that's why I liked the old UFC till your government had to get all wimpie about it. Plus in that time they proved size didn't matter much at all.

[eayragt]

I'm nowhere near sold on Vince/McMahon. The story could be good, and I love Bret, but that payoff sounds dreadful.

Yeah, I don't want to see Vince fight himself either... :p

[benjacko]

Would it be left side of his body against the right side or the top half of him versus the bottom half? :)

[TheOmniWarrior]

I just figured it out. Orton is going to kill the legend of Bret Hart... Its gotta happen...

[djthefunkchris]

I just figured it out. Orton is going to kill the legend of Bret Hart... Its gotta happen...

Orton is gonna "try" to kill the legendary Bret Hart, however..... he gets caught in the "Sharp Shooter" and gets royally embarrassed.

[masterded]

Orton is gonna "try" to kill the legendary Bret Hart, however..... he gets caught in the "Sharp Shooter" and gets royally embarrassed.

Then Bret gets attacked by the king who then challenges him to a kiss my Foot match?

In all seriousness they need to keep Orton away from Bret (or anyone else) and let his focus be on his feud with Kofi.

[Self]

Orton's really grown past the Legend Killer thing now, hasn't he? It was awesome when he was a rookie, you know, battling above his station, but now he's essentially the WWE's top heel he doesn't need to be taking out legends. Not in kayfabe. Not in real life. He's got Dibiase to elevate as it is.

[djthefunkchris]

I was... joking. Don't get too critical of a joke, no matter how right it sounds to you.:p

[b0shey]

Source: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter

The WWE creative team is reportedly not worried about this week's Monday TNA iMPACT! broadcast, but interested nonetheless in seeing what TNA cooks up.

Within WWE, some are baffled that the only two matches where the participants have been advertised ahead of time are the two women's bouts. In fact, some even joked that they should put Maryse on television each time a women's match airs to show that one WWE Diva can beat all of TNA's Knockouts combined in the ratings.

you just got to love the creative team :D

[Basmat01]

Orton's really grown past the Legend Killer thing now, hasn't he? It was awesome when he was a rookie, you know, battling above his station, but now he's essentially the WWE's top heel he doesn't need to be taking out legends. Not in kayfabe. Not in real life. He's got Dibiase to elevate as it is.

I think he has past the "Legend killer" stage but you would think this would be the one "Legend" he'll want to add to the list. if he is WWE "top" heel then why is fueding and losing to Kofi? he is clearly above that.

[Hyde Hill]

Because at the moment they are trying to elevate Kofi and Cena vs Orton has been done to death for the time being.

[Basmat01]

Because at the moment they are trying to elevate Kofi and Cena vs Orton has been done to death for the time being.

they are trying to Elevate Kofi yet in return have killed off any momentum Orton had. Orton needs to be a serious threat again. Time of Kofi to move on lol

[Self]

they are trying to Elevate Kofi yet in return have killed off any momentum Orton had. Orton needs to be a serious threat again. Time of Kofi to move on lol

For a few weeks, that was shaping up to be an awesome feud, but it all went away when they gave Kofi vs Orton away for free on RAW, with no build, and ended with a flat finish. 'Killing' Orton's momentum isn't really a big deal. He's been a Main Event player for so long he can instantly become top guy again with a single angle. Not that he needs to be, even after he gets done with Kofi, and the inevitable Legacy break-up, it's still going to be too soon for him to be rubbing shoulders with Triple H and Cena again.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Orton is a made man, he could appear next week and kick someone in the head and eyes would flock back to him. The emphasis is really on Kofi for this one, and that includes the victory Orton held over him at TLC, shows they're gonna make this a slow steady and fruitful push for Kofi.

[The Shape]

Still...Orton costing Kofi a friggin US title shot just shows how little this could potentially end up doing for Kofi. I hope he moves past this and begins a bloody and brutal feud with Ted building up to Mania, with Cody not being lost in the shuffle (pretty much needs to be in MITB in that case).

[randomfreeze]

Cena flipped the coin just 15 minutes ago at the Fiesta Bowl in Arizona. Guess he's not on the RAW schedule tonight?

[Tha Black Phenom]

I think they said he was gonna miss tonight's show. I don't know why they didn't have Sheamus take him out or something.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Hyped to see Bret. I feel like I'm a 10 year old mark again.

[Marshall]

*Spoilers*

Bret Hart kicks off Raw, while Hogan argues with Hall and Waltman on impact - i think i've gone back in time...

[PeterHilton]

Bret looks his age, but it's awesome to see him on Raw again.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I really hope this showdown lives up to the expectations.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

HBK turning heel it looks like.

[Marshall]

I bet they kiss - that'll get the ratings. No-one would see that coming. ;)

EDIT: I actually wasn't far off lol.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Damn it, I was waiting for SCM

[PeterHilton]

That was awesome.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Well done, now something's gonna go down with Vinny Mac.

[The Final Countdown]

Bret looks his age, but it's awesome to see him on Raw again.
He's aged better than Scott Hall, at least.

I thought that was pretty anticlimactic, to be honest.

[Marshall]

YES! They're actually putting Maryse on every time the knockouts are on! Maryse > iMpact!

[Franchise22]

He's aged better than Scott Hall, at least.

I thought that was pretty anticlimactic, to be honest.

good piece with him and HBK. alot of emotion there. Bret still has the mic skills.

[alden]

So is nothing really happening on raw or something?

[Marshall]

Hornswoggle and DX on at the same time as Desmond Wolfe - you couldn't time that anymore perfectly :D

Nice interplay between Jericho and Hart.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

So is nothing really happening on raw or something?

DX/Hornswaggle/marella skit now. Y2J trying to get Bret to screw HBK in the tag match and a four way match for a shot at the intercontinental belt.

[alden]

so the mid.......sorry leperacon is going up against pope vs wolf? lol

[ACCBiggz]

Don't watch either TNA or WWE anymore but had to tune in tonight. My impressions: WWE had a fantastic opening, TNA is absolute trash. May be the worst hour of programming I've seen in a long time.

[The Final Countdown]

Don't watch either TNA or WWE anymore but had to tune in tonight. My impressions: WWE had a fantastic opening, TNA is absolute trash. May be the worst hour of programming I've seen in a long time.
You mean you weren't entertained by the surprise appearances of Val Venis, Orlando Jordan and The Nasty Boys? :rolleyes:

[Marshall]

To be honest, it feels like 'business as usual' from WWE with the different aspect being Bret Hart while TNA seem like they're scrambling to be taken seriously and as a relevant show. They're not succeeding in my view.

[alden]

lol sorry wrong forum...........in both at the same time

[alden]

the tna forum is going off the chain....this thread is a little dead lol......wonder if that means something ;)

[TheEdgeOfReason]

That spinebuster was tight.

[PeterHilton]

Best match of the night so far for either program

EDIT: yes even with the hornswoggle-ference

[Franchise22]

got RAW on DVR, what match is being discussed?

[TheEdgeOfReason]

got RAW on DVR, what match is being discussed?

DX v JeriShow. Was a good match.

[Bigpapa42]

The opening segment of Hart's kick off angle was the biggest reason I wanted to see. Before HBK came out, where Hart thanked the fans, that was as from-the-heart as you are likely to see anytime soon. Even the Michaels stuff seemed pretty true.

A short bit later I flip over to Impact and what do I see? Jarrett givng a semi-heartfelt promo, then getting interrupted by Hogan on video, who tries to set a record for the use of brother and then says he's taken JJ's ownership portion of TNA.... Really, didn't they do that already with Foley? I think I picked right...

[Marshall]

Could have sworn Triple H was going to say 'Back to the midcard, Chris Jericho!' and not for the first time either... :p

Plus, anyone who picked impact over Raw was clearly in a dreamworld, hoping it would be good - instead they got a trainwreck, while Raw has been above average so far.

[PeterHilton]

These goddamned fans..Jericho is the best thing on TV ever.

I mean..he laid out Hornswoggle and I spit my pepsi out.

[Tha Black Phenom]

the tna forum is going off the chain....this thread is a little dead lol......wonder if that means something ;)

The simple reason is that there's a bunch of old faces re-appearing on TNA. Bound to be comments about those.

[PeterHilton]

I really liked that segment. Orton asking to be put in the Rumble in exchange for kicking Bret in the skull and then being refused by Vince was well thought out, showed good use of continuity, and was acted well by both men.

Even led to that little mini confrontation with Legacy.

[alden]

have they made any hint that they are "competing" tonight? even a knock on them or something?

[Bigpapa42]

From the look of it, its a train-wreck. Those are always fun. In a bad way.

[Bigpapa42]

have they made any hint that they are "competing" tonight? even a knock on them or something?

Jericho did the "Hogan listening" thing. That's it so far.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I love SOS' rough Dublin accent.

[Tag01]

I've been flipping back and forth. They're both holding my interest. Very interested to see what Hardy will do in TNA. I dig Hart being back, though. Hopefully TNA will provide enough competition to force WWE to start being innovative again.

[The Final Countdown]

I've mostly been on TNA since the Raw opening segment. Has Bret done anything notable since then?

[Self]

I've mostly been on TNA since the Raw opening segment. Has Bret done anything notable since then?

Jericho tried to convince him to be Referee for DX vs JeriShow for a little Montreal Payback. Bret said no. I thought it was a nice scene. I wish Bret had more to do.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I thought nothing was going to happen for a minute there.

[Dragonmack]

obviously setting up Bret vs Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania after that groin kick.

[Self]

Words cannot express how much I wanted Bret to get up and punch him out. Man, I love the Hitman. Makes me feel like a kid again.