The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[tad091]

Am I the only one that just saw that UFC commercial during NXT right now?

[SaySo]

Aren't they listed on her official website? Or are there more of them out there? The ones I saw she's not nude or doing anything obscene more or less just posing with a blonde unless I'm missing something...

You missing a couple....the bed shots.

[Stennick]

You missing a couple....the bed shots.

I think I remember them, isn't she basically just kind of "holding" her "girls" in like a sports bra or something. IDK I didn't see anything other than her in some lingerie in a few shots. Certainly no nudity, maybe NSFW but not nudity.

I seriously doubt this is the reason they kept her off of television. She's been all over her twitter and website about it. If I were her (she's admitted she doesn't know why). I would just keep quiet about it. I'm sure she's just too green and thats why she's being left off.

[supershot]

I find NXT extremely painful to watch. Its a good concept but its hard to watch these people suffer on the mic and in the challenges.

[SaySo]

AJ is my only favorite.

[supershot]

Kill me! This is soo hard to watch.

Matt Striker just made it all worth it with the Michael Cole comment haha!

[SaySo]

Naomi = I moan?

"Not as an announcer but a dancer"

[supershot]

"Michael Cole is just as good a dancer as he is an announcer"

:D

[Johnny Fenoli]

Who is Katilyn? She thick... Real name?

[supershot]

Who is Katilyn? She thick... Real name?

Shes the girl next door.. DUH!

WWE revealed Vickie Guerrero’s Rookie on tonight’s premier episode of WWE NXT Divas edition. The girl’s name is Kaitlyn, previously known as Celeste and Ricki Vaughn. She’s been in FCW since July.

[SaySo]

Who is Katilyn? She thick... Real name?

That's why she's almost as pretty as Vickie.

[Johnny Fenoli]

That's why she's almost as pretty as Vickie.

Thick was a good thing... Nice and thick, OH YEAH!

[Comradebot]

That's why she's almost as pretty as Vickie.

Ouch.

[SaySo]

My WNXT Smark Poll
1. AJ
2. Naomi
3. Kaitlyn
4. Maxine
5. Jamie
6. Poor (wo)man's Maryse

[supershot]

Ouch.

That's what you said when she blew up your mailbox :p

[supershot]

My NXT Poll:

1. Kaitlyn
2. Naomi
3. AJ
4. Maxine
5. Jamie
6. Aksana

[Johnny Fenoli]

My NXT Poll:

1. Naomi
2. AJ
3. Kaitlyn
4. Maxine
5.
6.
7. Jamie
8.
9.
10.
....
786. Aksana

[SaySo]

My NXT Poll:

1. Naomi
2. AJ
3. Kaitlyn
4. Maxine
5.
6.
7. Jamie
8.
9.
10.
....
786. Aksana

I endorse the bottom half of this poll. There must be 786 women wrestlers in the world. We now see the benchmark, the bottom line.

[Slagaholic]

Worse than LVE?

[MattitudeV2]

My NXT Poll:

1. Naomi
2. AJ
3. Kaitlyn
4. Maxine
5.Michael Cole
6.Josh Matthews
7. Tony Chimel
8.Naomi Neon Green Pants
9.The Wall Maxine face planted into
900.Jamie
....
1000. Aksana

Fixed :D

[TakerNGN74]

I watched as much as I could of the premiere of season 3 tonight as I was flipping back and forth between that and the new season of Sons of Anarchy that started tonight (Ironically also season 3) and I heard Aksana talk and I already fricken hate her. Before her I thought that Maryse's english was bad but Aksana takes the cake for bad english for me. I hope she is the first to go or they realise that they shouldn't put a microphone in her hand.

[Comradebot]

I watched as much as I could of the premiere of season 3 tonight as I was flipping back and forth between that and the new season of Sons of Anarchy that started tonight (Ironically also season 3) and I heard Aksana talk and I already fricken hate her. Before her I thought that Maryse's english was bad but Aksana takes the cake for bad english for me. I hope she is the first to go or they realise that they shouldn't put a microphone in her hand.

There's something tawdry to be said to this.

But it won't be by me... out loud, that is.

[b0shey]

1: AJ (:D)
2: Kaitlyn (damn she looks good)
3: Aksana (give her some love :cool:)
4: Maxine
5: Jamie
6: Naomi (I hate her already, lol at her pin botch)

on a side note God Damn i hate the phrase WWE Universe so stupid :mad:

[MattitudeV2]

1: AJ (:D)
2: Kaitlyn (damn she looks good)
3: Aksana (give her some love :cool:)
4: Maxine
5: Jamie
6: Naomi (I hate her already, lol at her pin botch)

on a side note God Damn i hate the phrase WWE Universe so stupid :mad:

The botch really wasn't her fault it was the undefined Divas Champion and K2's fault watch the ending again....

[Hyde Hill]

Catched RAW for the first time in a long time and man apart from Barrett the nexus just can not do a promo worth a damn!

[Comradebot]

Catched RAW for the first time in a long time and man apart from Barrett the nexus just can not do a promo worth a damn!

Justin Gabriel doesn't need to do promos. Let him do his talking in the ring :cool:

But it's true, he's far from good on the microphone. Still, good look and supreme talent. With any luck, that can make him a more consistent Jeff Hardy who also doesn't run off to smoke weed at random.

[crownsy]

I think Skip was actually competent on the mic, not good but competent. not that these things matter right now with him injured.

Gaberial is bland enough that he'll never get over on his mic skills but wont be mocked, and his in ring talent and energy could make people not care, Ala Jeff hardy (hat tip to com, he beat me to the hardy comparison hehe).

Otunga, carver and slater should never be given the mic again.

Although to be fair, at least slater can work the basics of a match, so i dont mind him as much as carver and otunga who are just awful. Dolph ziggler does your finisher about 10 times better though kid, find a new one.

mabey he can be like his idle and adopt an already heavily used finisher? the slater spear? :D


Also on a random topic switch, Miz-Bryan continues to be a solid, simple fued. I like that the WWE is letting bryan pretty much put out the "I'm not a good talker and i know it, but i'll kick your F'n head in and make you tap" persona as much as PG can allow.

I laughed hard at him smiling and laughing at Miz while alex riley tapped like a little girl.

I wonder if they'll save cattle mutilation for the PPV as his finsher? i've heard he's been doing that at house shows and such. could be a reveal for NOC.

[The Shape]

How did they write Sheffield out? Or is he still around just not wrestling?

[crownsy]

How did they write Sheffield out? Or is he still around just not wrestling?

They just had barrett mention that he got injured, so they seem to be keeping his spot open for a return later.

Wade mentions it in promo's from time to time. "undermanned with skip out, doing this even without skip, ect..)

Also cool to see darren young come down and distract wade this week, leading to randy RKO'in the stuffing out of him. Young's not the most exciting guy, but im glad to see the WWE do more with his beat down by nexus than send him down to FCW like he never existed.

[The Final Countdown]

How did they write Sheffield out? Or is he still around just not wrestling?
He's injured. That's also the storyline reason they gave for him no longer appearing with Nexus.

[Comradebot]

How did they write Sheffield out? Or is he still around just not wrestling?

They said they "cut the fat" and essentially kicked him out off screen.

[Marshall]

The thing i just realised about this season of NXT is that we're probably going to see primo vs goldust in some form many times over the season - i'm not sure if that's a good thing yet :D

[SaySo]

The initial details we have on Monday's Labor Day Raw is the show averaged 4.20 million viewers over the course of the two-hour broadcast.

Viewership was down 16.9 percent compared to last week's 5.05 million viewers for the Raw #900 episode.

[Jaysin]

The thing i just realised about this season of NXT is that we're probably going to see primo vs goldust in some form many times over the season - i'm not sure if that's a good thing yet :D

Goldust is the only thing that makes me want to watch NXT this season, but I still won't.

[Marshall]

Goldust is the only thing that makes me want to watch NXT this season, but I still won't.

ha, one of the best things on NXT this week was trying to work out if Aksana was legitimately freaked out by Goldust playing his character - she looked confused a lot of the time. Goldust is a great man, and time on-air for Primo works for me.

[MrOnu]

After watching the last RAW, I feel the need to say... gosh I hate it when Maryse speaks french. Mind you, I'm from the same area, I understand perfectly what she says (and I probably have the same accent), but dammit, it makes me cringe each time. It kinda break the immersion factor each time for me. Maybe if she was actually saying something relevant from time to time...

Is it just me or they ran recently a losing streak story with Jericho and they're about to do it again ?

[crownsy]

After watching the last RAW, I feel the need to say... gosh I hate it when Maryse speaks french. Mind you, I'm from the same area, I understand perfectly what she says (and I probably have the same accent), but dammit, it makes me cringe each time. It kinda break the immersion factor each time for me. Maybe if she was actually saying something relevant from time to time...

Is it just me or they ran recently a losing streak story with Jericho and they're about to do it again ?

O'm not sure they ended it, it was right before the nexus stuff started, and he hasen't exactly been on fire.

He put Wade over clean the night after SS, and i can't remeber him winning anytime before that, at least not over a non jobber in singles.

I think it's part of a plan to let him go tour and then come back as a face. I mean, the crowd is busting into "Y2J" chants everywhere now.

He's reached that point that most great older heels do where the fans are uncomfortable booing him i think. They know he doesn't have much time left, and they want to cheer him during it. And, since most of the new young guys they are pushing up the card are heels (shemus, drew, nexus, del rio, swagger) they can afford to let him go at grey, if not outright face.

I'm thinking were going to see the last ride of the Y2J persona in the near future. or maybe that's just my hope, much as i like his heel character.

[Stennick]

So the PWI top 50 North American Women's Wrestlers is out. Michelle McCool is number one. I thought I'd post the list on here. I don't know who about 35 of these girls are but I'm sure others will.

1. Michelle McCool
2. Angelina Love
3. Mercedes Martinez
4. Cheerleader Melissa
5. Eve Torres
6. Madison Rayne
7. Beth Phoenix
8. Mickie James
9. MsChif
10. Maryse
11. Tara
12. Sara Del Rey
13. Gail Kim
14. Awesome Kong
15. Madison Eagles
16. Sarita
17. Alicia Fox
18. Taylor Wilde
19. Daffney
20. Hamada
21. Velvet Sky
22. ODB
23. Nikki Roxx
24. Jillian
25. Portia Perez
26. Kelly Kelly
27. Rain
28. Angel Orsini
29. Natalya
30. Serena Deeb
31. Nicole Matthews
32. Amber O'Neal
33. LuFisto
34. Daizee Haze
35. Allison Danger
36. Layla
37. Kellie Skater
38. Tiffany
39. Jennifer Blake
40. Jazz
41. Melissa Coates
42. Cat Power
43. Malia Hosaka
44. Cherry Bomb
45. April Hunter
46. Jessicka Havok
47. Brittany Force
48. Naomi Night
49. Cindy Rogers
50. Roxie Cotton

[Linsolv]

After watching the last RAW, I feel the need to say... gosh I hate it when Maryse speaks french. Mind you, I'm from the same area, I understand perfectly what she says (and I probably have the same accent), but dammit, it makes me cringe each time. It kinda break the immersion factor each time for me. Maybe if she was actually saying something relevant from time to time...

This reminds me of the times I've heard Hamada speak Japanese on TNA (I know, not WWE, but it's kinda related?) She always says something like "I have no idea what any of you are saying," and the announcers treat it like she actually said something.

[Johnny Fenoli]

After watching the last RAW, I feel the need to say... gosh I hate it when Maryse speaks french. Mind you, I'm from the same area, I understand perfectly what she says (and I probably have the same accent), but dammit, it makes me cringe each time. It kinda break the immersion factor each time for me. Maybe if she was actually saying something relevant from time to time...

Is it just me or they ran recently a losing streak story with Jericho and they're about to do it again ?

What kinda stuff does she usually say?

[MrOnu]

What kinda stuff does she usually say?

Really basic stuff, mostly things that would be used by a heel diva to get cheap heat. This week she told Ted to walk away as she didn't feel talking to him anymore after he tried to take all the spotlight.

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm seems matt hardy is in a spot of trouble:

http://www.pwinsider.com/article/50806/matt-hardy-update.html?p=1

Maybe this time he has crossed the line?

[PeterHilton]

Hmm seems matt hardy is in a spot of trouble:

http://www.pwinsider.com/article/50806/matt-hardy-update.html?p=1

Maybe this time he has crossed the line?

ohnoez :rolleyes:

[Hyde Hill]

ohnoez :rolleyes:

Lol, yeah I would rather see lito show up then the boring brother. Jeff has moved on from tag so it's useless to sign him imho.

[Jaysin]

Isn't it related to his health? Considering they said the word "condition" a billion times in that article?

[PeterHilton]

The condition thing is also a code word that gets thrown around when the 'wellness' concerns come up...Carlito's 'condition' also got questioned at the end of his run

[Jaysin]

Oh alright. I didn't catch that. I just assumed it was related to his health problems he's been going through for the last year or so.

[b0shey]

RIP Bastion Booger :(

[sabataged]

Does anyone else think Matt Hardy possibly ate Jeff Hardy?

Jeff needs to give Matt some of his coke to help him drop the pounds

[brashleyholland]

Does anyone else think Matt Hardy possibly ate Jeff Hardy?

Jeff needs to give Matt some of his coke to help him drop the pounds

See, if only they were working as a team again....

[Stennick]

Does anyone else think Matt Hardy possibly ate Jeff Hardy?

Jeff needs to give Matt some of his coke to help him drop the pounds

See, if only they were working as a team again....

These statements made me laugh, thats all for now.

[Hulkamaniac85]

Liking this interaction between the Miz & Ocho! Good stuff haha

[Jaysin]

Liking this interaction between the Miz & Ocho! Good stuff haha

Child please, the only thing entertaining about Raw so far is Ochocinco himself

[Comradebot]

Okay...

Am I the only one who thought the Sheamus/Morrisson falls count anywhere match was pretty fantastic?

Has to be one of the better matches the WWE has put on live TV in a while, particularly for a non-main event. I think the only thing that took away from it was the interference ending... but given the rules and the storyline, I wasn't shocked and kinda expected it.

Loved Sheamus's reaction when he missed the kick and took out that chunk of equipment instead.

[Hulkamaniac85]

Hahaha Jericho is the best

[jjohns44]

Yay! So glad Jericho is back in. I loved how he bitched out Michael Cole. He was getting on my nerves even more than usual since the beginning of the night with his annoying boylove for Miz every three seconds.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Jericho punking out Cole twice was the highlight of the night. No question.

Edge/Ryder/Sheamus segment was good, Sheamus/Morrison was very well done. For a "season premiere", a term they pull out of their asses, they haven't done a bad job on Raw so far.

[Comradebot]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is an example of the "overbook" road agent note :p

[Jaysin]

**** you WWE for taking away the potential show saver spot...I wanted to see that 450!

That FU into RKO was awful, but kudos for attempting it

[Comradebot]

**** you WWE for taking away the potential show saver spot...I wanted to see that 450!

That FU into RKO was awful, but kudos for attempting it

HAHA!!! Right, I was sooo hoping to see the 450 through the table. Oh well, maybe another time.

And yeah, the RKO to counter the FU through the table looked... akward... It's an excellent idea, but in the end it sorta looked at first like Cena just accidentally fell sideways while trying to hit the FU and hit the table too... I mean, part of Orton still went through the table. Awesome idea, but it didn't work out quite like it probably should've.

Overall, I liked the show. One of the WWE's better efforts in recent history. Sheamus was golden all night, his match with Morrisson being one of the best non-Main Events the WWE has given on free TV, and I actually really dug the overbooked main event. Sure, it was over the top chaos, but it was fun over the top chaos.

What I didn't like? The R-Truth segment Sucked with a capital S. See? The S is capitalized. I honestly think I enjoyed Ted DiBiase Jr's rendition of My Way more than the crappy rap song R-Truth busted out with, which probably isn't the reaction they were going for. R-Truth is a crappy rapper and it's an even crappier gimmick. It didn't work well for him when he was K-Kwik, and it still annoys me today.

Torn on the Goldust/Regal stuff... the initial angle was funny, as was the manner in which the match ended, but... eh. The match seemed like an afterthought, and made Regal look awful (and as a Regal mark, this makes me sad).

[Stennick]

I'm shocked R Truth was even brought in by the WWE. He's just not that great but then again the only time I liked him was when he was the NWA heel world champion in Nashville. Playing that role was fun but really that was about it.

[Jaysin]

They should just move Goldust and Regal into feuds with younger wrestlers to get them over. They're excellent workers and far too good to be stuck in stupid skits every week.

[Moe Hunter]

This reminds me of the times I've heard Hamada speak Japanese on TNA (I know, not WWE, but it's kinda related?) She always says something like "I have no idea what any of you are saying," and the announcers treat it like she actually said something.

Gomenasai. Wakarimasen ga?

[Stennick]

What do you mean what does he mean )

[Linsolv]

Gomenasai. Wakarimasen ga?

Iie, chotto wakarimash*ta.

Far from fluent, though... I just watch enough foreign films and anime to pick up on just about the most basic parts of sentences. For Japanese refences in American TV, it's more than enough to keep track, but the times I've tried to watch AJPW I've been completely lost outside of names and finishers, for the most part.

EDIT: Apparently, it thinks I'm referring, very cleverly, to fecal matter. Ah, well. You'd hardly pronounce that 'i' anyways.

[PeterHilton]

What I didn't like? The R-Truth segment Sucked with a capital S. See? The S is capitalized. I honestly think I enjoyed Ted DiBiase Jr's rendition of My Way more than the crappy rap song R-Truth busted out with, which probably isn't the reaction they were going for. R-Truth is a crappy rapper and it's an even crappier gimmick. It didn't work well for him when he was K-Kwik, and it still annoys me today.



No to harp on this (because hellshock might come in and we'd be stuck in a 7page debate on the matter ;) ) but R-Truth is a decent worker witha sh*t gimmick.

I don't know if it's his fault or the hopelessly outdated writers...but his 'rapper' gimmick is pathetic because a)he's a bad rapper and b) it's totally unbelievable...watching RTruth is like seeing one of those cheesy 80s TV show/Commercials where black people would start spontaneously rapping about rainbows and potato chips or whatever.

Awful.

The fact that they signed Truth and released Burke at almost the same time is still one of the more baffling moves in wrestling over the last few years.

[sabataged]

No to harp on this (because hellshock might come in and we'd be stuck in a 7page debate on the matter ;) ) but R-Truth is a decent worker witha sh*t gimmick.

I don't know if it's his fault or the hopelessly outdated writers...but his 'rapper' gimmick is pathetic because a)he's a bad rapper and b) it's totally unbelievable...watching RTruth is like seeing one of those cheesy 80s TV show/Commercials where black people would start spontaneously rapping about rainbows and potato chips or whatever.

Awful.

The fact that they signed Truth and released Burke at almost the same time is still one of the more baffling moves in wrestling over the last few years.


R'Truth really has only had 2 gimmicks. The thug and the rapper, heel and face. He is much more believable as the Thug if you ask me. If he would just quit dancing around and starting scowling at people, he would have a little menace to him. I think they should start a black panther-esque stable. Be like a Nation of Domination stable but with a little more edge and not the damn African colors.

[PeterHilton]

R'Truth really has only had 2 gimmicks. The thug and the rapper, heel and face. He is much more believable as the Thug if you ask me. If he would just quit dancing around and starting scowling at people, he would have a little menace to him. I think they should start a black panther-esque stable. Be like a Nation of Domination stable but with a little more edge and not the damn African colors.

I honestly think that they are afraid to do something like this with their current 'product settings'

I'd say that's probably WHY they cut Burke; they saw that his Pope is Pimpin gimmick would get over but in today's WWE there's just no way they're running a black man out there to talk about pimpin and slappin hos.

In the Attitude Era? yes...in kid friendly 2010? No

[Johnny Fenoli]

I honestly think that they are afraid to do something like this with their current 'product settings'

I'd say that's probably WHY they cut Burke; they saw that his Pope is Pimpin gimmick would get over but in today's WWE there's just no way they're running a black man out there to talk about pimpin and slappin hos.

In the Attitude Era? yes...in kid friendly 2010? No

What I was going to say... How much longer is this PG era going to last? :confused:

[Comradebot]

What I was going to say... How much longer is this PG era going to last? :confused:

Probably until they have a form of competition that could be viewed even remotely to be a threat. No reason to take risks right now.

In other words, blame TNA for spending so much time sucking.

[PeterHilton]

Probably until they have a form of competition that could be viewed as even remotely to be a threat. No reason to take risks right now.

In other words, blame TNA for spending so much time sucking.

This.

Seriously...WWE has ZERO reason to make any risky moves. That's why they run the same match 47 times in a row, that's why their storylines are so predictable,that's why you can watch RAW once a month and be caught up on things...they're totally on cruise control

[Johnny Fenoli]

This.

Seriously...WWE has ZERO reason to make any risky moves. That's why they run the same match 47 times in a row, that's why their storylines are so predictable,that's why you can watch RAW once a month and be caught up on things...they're totally on cruise control

Well.... how much money yall got? Lets all pool our money together and start our own company...

[MichiganHero]

Well.... how much money yall got? Lets all pool our money together and start our own company...

I shall donate one kidney......wrong time of pledge drive.

[Melanieshaman]

While I only watch WWE sparingly, I was curious about something. Someone PLEASE explain to me WHY Randy Orton is a main eventer? What was that slamming his fists on the ground thing last night? First he's this cerebral stalking type guy who moves slowly and calculating around the ring (which he doesn't pull off very well-he looks like he has back and neck issues), the he drops down and throws a sort of intimidation FIT? what is that?

It's good to see I can not watch wwe for 6+ Months and the main even picture hasn't changed (unfortunately) I really wish they'd develop some more young talent and give em a chance. Not this "nexus" thing, whatever that is..a bunch of young thugs??

One last thing..what's up with Jericho? I wish he'd leave, mainly because they given him these terrible gimmicks. Sit in the ring and cry about getting in a match? or he'll quit? GEEZ! Let him be the (oops hit the word filter) confident heel he was when he came in as Y2J and great great promos and bury his competition that way (like he did to the Rock when he did debut).

[SaySo]

WWE Vance Archer w/Monty Brown photo

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6619/montyl.jpg

[PeterHilton]

While I only watch WWE sparingly, I was curious about something. Someone PLEASE explain to me WHY Randy Orton is a main eventer? What was that slamming his fists on the ground thing last night? First he's this cerebral stalking type guy who moves slowly and calculating around the ring (which he doesn't pull off very well-he looks like he has back and neck issues), the he drops down and throws a sort of intimidation FIT? what is that?

He's an anti-hero who basically turned himself because people were so hot for him after he broke up with Legacy. His pop at WM was one of if not the biggest of the nights.

The fact they managed to turn him face and keep the stuff that fans actually cheered for is both great and surprising (considering how badly they botched his post Evolution turn)

It's good to see I can not watch wwe for 6+ Months and the main even picture hasn't changed (unfortunately) I really wish they'd develop some more young talent and give em a chance. Not this "nexus" thing, whatever that is..a bunch of young thugs??

One last thing..what's up with Jericho? I wish he'd leave, mainly because they given him these terrible gimmicks. Sit in the ring and cry about getting in a match? or he'll quit? GEEZ! Let him be the (oops hit the word filter) confident heel he was when he came in as Y2J and great great promos and bury his competition that way (like he did to the Rock when he did debut).

The rest is stuff that sounds very much like someone who just fell onto planet Earth and started picking up WWE...I can't even begin why Nexus works or what's up with Jericho w/o recapping the last 6 months of storylines.

EDIT: Not a criticism of you, per se, but what can you expect from people on a message board? An essay on how those storylines developed. ;)

[Comradebot]

This.

Seriously...WWE has ZERO reason to make any risky moves. That's why they run the same match 47 times in a row, that's why their storylines are so predictable,that's why you can watch RAW once a month and be caught up on things...they're totally on cruise control

Ya know, I think this is part of the reason I liked the Sheamus/Morrisson match last night so much. It was such a welcome change of pace from the typical episode of RAW, and gave me a few flashbacks to the wild brawls of the Attitude Era I grew up watching. Morrisson getting tossed off the ramp, flipping in mid-air, and landing on his feet was AWESOME, as was his crossbody off the... whatever you call the screen that's about a third as tall as the titantron. Probably didn't hurt they're a pair of my favorite guys in the modern WWE...

And Melanie, you want them to develop new youngsters, but... not Nexus? The whole point of which is to have a bunch of rookies united to create havoc for the established veterans invasion style? Maybe they are just thugs, but it's still the hottest storyline the WWE have had in probably three years or more, and in the end they WILL have at least one established young star out of it in Wade Barrett, and some of the other guys in it will probably be around for awhile when it's all said and done, too. Gabriel seems firmly established as the number two in Nexus, is an incredible in-ring talent, and currently holds a clean pinfall on John Cena.

Meanwhile, they ARE building more young talent towards the top. In truth, Sheamus, The Miz, John Morrison, Drew McIntyre, and Dolph Ziggler are all relatively young (Sheamus is the oldest at 32) by wrestling standards and, (again by wrestling standards) really haven't been around in the WWE THAT long, and I'd say all of those guys have seen sizeable pushes in the last couple of years.

Yeah, Orton, Cena, HHH, The Undertaker, ect are still at the very top of the card, but they're also proven commodities. As long as they sell tickets and merchandise, there's ZERO reason to move them down. Those guys I listed in the paragraph above haven't proven they can consistently do that yet, and as we've discussed in this thread... why should the WWE take any risks? Why rush to build the company around John Morrison and kick Cena out of the spotlight? You can't rush/poorly book these things. If you do, they'll just pull another Kozlov situation... they had him beat tons of guys at the very bottom of the roster and some local talents, and then they immediately jumped him to the very top. No one (other than me) cared, and it bombed.

By the end of the year, Barrett will be champion. Sheamus was around for, what, less than a year before he had his first reign last year, right? Looks to me like the WWE is building a new main event as quickly as they can without risks.

[PeterHilton]

WWE Vance Archer w/Monty Brown photo

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6619/montyl.jpg

Monty looks his age. Unfortunately.

[Linsolv]

$3.75 beer specials? Hot damn!

I have to agree with Comrade, whose internet persona has forever been changed now that he's got a photograph and not what's-his-name the European Giant. There's no reason to change the formula. All the youngsters on WWE (Rhodes, DiBiase, Morrison, Miz, Nexus, Ziggler, etc) are getting the kind of pop that in TNA is reserved for main eventers. And I mean that by percentage of the audience, not number-totals.

[MichiganHero]

$3.75 beer specials? Hot damn!

I have to agree with Comrade, whose internet persona has forever been changed now that he's got a photograph and not what's-his-name the European Giant. There's no reason to change the formula. All the youngsters on WWE (Rhodes, DiBiase, Morrison, Miz, Nexus, Ziggler, etc) are getting the kind of pop that in TNA is reserved for main eventers. And I mean that by percentage of the audience, not number-totals.

Boris Kiraykin. Russia's next leader.

[Comradebot]

$3.75 beer specials? Hot damn!

I have to agree with Comrade, whose internet persona has forever been changed now that he's got a photograph and not what's-his-name the European Giant. There's no reason to change the formula. All the youngsters on WWE (Rhodes, DiBiase, Morrison, Miz, Nexus, Ziggler, etc) are getting the kind of pop that in TNA is reserved for main eventers. And I mean that by percentage of the audience, not number-totals.

I really hope you're aware the photograph isn't me :o

And Boris may return, but... my current avatar just amuses me so.

[djthefunkchris]

Although I agree 100% to what PeterHilton said, I wanted to ask a few questions concerning this post?

While I only watch WWE sparingly, I was curious about something. Someone PLEASE explain to me WHY Randy Orton is a main eventer?
1. He generates more heat then any other heel... in fact he generates chants, cheers and everything else you would want a Main Event person to do... to an extreme. RKO chant last night for example. What would you desire in a Main Eventer?

What was that slamming his fists on the ground thing last night? First he's this cerebral stalking type guy who moves slowly and calculating around the ring (which he doesn't pull off very well-he looks like he has back and neck issues), the he drops down and throws a sort of intimidation FIT? what is that?
He does what he does, somehow it works. I am like other's thinking he needs a different thing for what he's doing, but I guess the shake your head like a wildman would be too easily compared to Stone Cold, so he does the snake thing instead (viper, etc.). How would you have him act?

It's good to see I can not watch wwe for 6+ Months and the main even picture hasn't changed (unfortunately) I really wish they'd develop some more young talent and give em a chance. Not this "nexus" thing, whatever that is..a bunch of young thugs??
Difference's.... Kane, John Morrison, Shaemus, The All American American, and the leader of Nexus for just a couple I've noticed. Kane I always knew could step up for it whenever they needed him, Morrison I'm happily surprised with. Far as developing more young talent, I don't know anyone that is doing more with young talent?

Now if you mean hire them, make them world champion within' a month of their arrival, sorry... I can't see them ever being that ignorant.
One last thing..what's up with Jericho? I wish he'd leave, mainly because they given him these terrible gimmicks. Sit in the ring and cry about getting in a match? or he'll quit? GEEZ! Let him be the (oops hit the word filter) confident heel he was when he came in as Y2J and great great promos and bury his competition that way (like he did to the Rock when he did debut).
I keep thinking he's about ready to take another break, but at the same time I feel like he would go out as a good guy, but probably not as usefull to the WWE that way. Jericho has made more people stars while being a heel, then anyone else I can think of. I don't mean just moving people on to the Main Event, but making people remember the other persons name with promo's and such as well. Unbelievably one of the best I have ever seen as far as things like that are concerned.

I don't remember him ever being as good as he is right now. Perhaps because he's older and feels he aleady had his "great" years, and is just trying to help other's make a few of their own. If this IS the case, and I can't help thinking it is, then I'm just going down saying my hat is off to Chris Jericho, and I'm officially always going to be a Jericho fan because of this. Funny, how I never liked him before, yet now I think the world of him when other's are putting him down.

[MichiganHero]

I really hope you're aware the photograph isn't me :o

And Boris may return, but... my current avatar just amuses me so.

Who is it. I always thought it was the Mag Daddy.

[Comradebot]

Who is it. I always thought it was the Mag Daddy.

It's Bruce Campbell... in a Boris hat.

I fake claimed him in a mafia game, and created this awesome avatar to try and drive that point home, hehe.

[SaySo]

Source: PWTorch.com

WWE's NXT TV series is now down to three remaining episodes on Syfy. NXT was scheduled to lead into the premiere of Smackdown on Syfy on October 1, but the program has been changed.

Instead, Syfy is advertising a "Countdown to Smackdown" one-hour special that will air at 7:00 p.m. EST leading into Smackdown's live premiere at 8:00 p.m. EST.

The three remaining NXT episodes on Syfy are tonight, on Sept. 21, and on Sept. 28. WWE has not announced yet where the remaining portion of Season 3 will air, but it likely will be on WWE's website barring another TV channel picking up the series.

Related to NXT in Canada, The Score will continue to air NXT after Syfy drops the series in the U.S. NXT is currently listed on The Score's schedule for Oct. 6 and 13. (Thanks to Devin Cutting.)

[Linsolv]

I really hope you're aware the photograph isn't me :o

And Boris may return, but... my current avatar just amuses me so.

That's Bruce Campbell? Huh. Guess I don't recognize him without seeing his hair or something.

Didn't really figure it was you, but for some reason some people I just REALLY associate with their images. Remi changed his avatar, and he hasn't been the same since. On the other hand, Johnny Fenoli changes his frequently and he's pretty much the same every time.

[Stennick]

I just changed my Avatar for the first time in the 3 1/2 years I've been here and it was a very tough thing to do.

[Jaysin]

While I only watch WWE sparingly, I was curious about something. Someone PLEASE explain to me WHY Randy Orton is a main eventer? What was that slamming his fists on the ground thing last night? First he's this cerebral stalking type guy who moves slowly and calculating around the ring (which he doesn't pull off very well-he looks like he has back and neck issues), the he drops down and throws a sort of intimidation FIT? what is that?

Orton looks like he's mentally retarded when he does this crap. I'm not trying to be offensive, he just comes across as handicap to me.

[SaySo]

Casual fans still eat it up...which matters. Majority rules. Orton only doing what's unique to him the same way Hogan does it when he hulks up. Not everyone can be satisfied. If everyone was dissatisfied, I bet he changes up his routine. John Cena gets 1/4 of the crowd to go against him but it doesn't stop him from doing his trademark taunts and five moves of doom. That's why John Cena is featured because those 1/4, more like 1/6 to 1/8 aren't the majority. You probably get those folks at those ECW shows and you see why Paul Heyman couldn't make a buck off them.

[Jaysin]

Casual fans still eat it up...which matters. Majority rules. Orton only doing what's unique to him the same way Hogan does it when he hulks up. Not everyone can be satisfied. If everyone was dissatisfied, I bet he changes up his routine. John Cena gets 1/4 of the crowd to go against him but it doesn't stop him from doing his trademark taunts and five moves of doom. That's why John Cena is featured because those 1/4, more like 1/6 to 1/8 aren't the majority. You probably get those folks at those ECW shows and you see why Paul Heyman couldn't make a buck off them.

I know majority rules, but it gets kind of annoying when you hear "omg how can you not like Randy Orton?!?!" a thousand times. He looks stupid to me when he does that crap and he's just as boring in the ring as Cena to me.

[MightyDavidson]

Casual fans still eat it up...which matters. Majority rules. Orton only doing what's unique to him the same way Hogan does it when he hulks up. Not everyone can be satisfied. If everyone was dissatisfied, I bet he changes up his routine. John Cena gets 1/4 of the crowd to go against him but it doesn't stop him from doing his trademark taunts and five moves of doom. That's why John Cena is featured because those 1/4, more like 1/6 to 1/8 aren't the majority. You probably get those folks at those ECW shows and you see why Paul Heyman couldn't make a buck off them.

But he was making a buck off them. The problem was he was expanding to quickly and spending more money then he was making in order to do so.

[SaySo]

ROH is doing it right. They don't go above their means. Obviously they learned that from Paul Heyman. But they aren't like ballin' in terms of market share or anything. They are making business and continuing despite losing talent to the WWE and TNA throughout the years. They are what they thought they were.

Heyman may have made a buck off of them. But if you make your product to influence them (1/4, 1/8 of the typical WWE crowd that hate John Cena), is it worth it. Is it worth it for the WWE to get John Cena off TV to satisfy those who chant "He can't wrestle" or "Cena Sucks"? Maybe we should take Cena off...we'll hide his flaws (his appearance) just to appease them. That's pay dirt. Money maker. "Cena Wins We'll Riot" mentality.

[MightyDavidson]

Did I say that? No, I merely disagreed with your assumption that ECW didn't make money. That's all.

[ampulator]

He's an anti-hero who basically turned himself because people were so hot for him after he broke up with Legacy. His pop at WM was one of if not the biggest of the nights.

The fact they managed to turn him face and keep the stuff that fans actually cheered for is both great and surprising (considering how badly they botched his post Evolution turn)


I think it was sort of botch in-itself, at least early on. They weren't sure whether to turn Cody Rhodes, Ted Dibiase, or Randy Orton, or combination of two out of the three.

There were points where Cody was getting crazy cheers, and even for Ted Dibiase Jr., no less. But they waited too long, and their storyline wasn't going anywhere. They chose to go the safe route and turn Randy Orton. I doubt they expected that BIG of a reaction, even though it had been brewing since his "I'm crazy!!!" days. They ran with it, instead of changing of his gimmick and/or character. And they kept his momentum up despite his losses.

Okay...

Am I the only one who thought the Sheamus/Morrisson falls count anywhere match was pretty fantastic?

Has to be one of the better matches the WWE has put on live TV in a while, particularly for a non-main event. I think the only thing that took away from it was the interference ending... but given the rules and the storyline, I wasn't shocked and kinda expected it.

Loved Sheamus's reaction when he missed the kick and took out that chunk of equipment instead.
It was a good match, probably better than most of WWE's recent matches. I have to say, the Orton/Cena match wasn't bad as well.

What surprised me, though, was they let Orton win. Did he win clean? I wouldn't say so. But they let him win over Cena. I think it's their way of staunching the bleeding in the 18-29 market.

[Stennick]

I really don't think Cena is the reason for their bleeding of the 18-24 market, in fact I haven't seen anything that claims they are bleeding in that department. Just because thats not their current focused demographic doesn't mean those guys are turning away in droves, or that their bleeding fans from that area.

I would agree that I thought they would go the Ted Jr. face turn and main event push and maybe they were going to go that route but the fans clearly wanted Randy as a face (I'm not sure why the guy is boring and bland to me). However there is no denying he gets a reaction and kudos for them for going with it.

I would have liked to have seen Ted take on a bigger role than just being the Million Dollar Man v 2.0

[Hyde Hill]

Monty looks his age. Unfortunately.

Neh just needs to get rid of the grey with some colour. Still looks in shape which is most important if he is ever to return. Hoyte + Brown though. TNA!

And yes they are not a threat to WWE (yet) and the reasons are multiple including some out of their own control.

[Hyde Hill]

$3.75 beer specials? Hot damn!

I have to agree with Comrade, whose internet persona has forever been changed now that he's got a photograph and not what's-his-name the European Giant. There's no reason to change the formula. All the youngsters on WWE (Rhodes, DiBiase, Morrison, Miz, Nexus, Ziggler, etc) are getting the kind of pop that in TNA is reserved for main eventers. And I mean that by percentage of the audience, not number-totals.

Not true as the Impact zone is not much to rely on and the higher smark percentage at TNA shows. All these WWE youngsters so to speak are just getting a push because WWE booked themselves in a bind with NXT and because they lost Tista, Shawn and partly lost HHH and Taker who will leave soon.

[Hyde Hill]

I know majority rules, but it gets kind of annoying when you hear "omg how can you not like Randy Orton?!?!" a thousand times. He looks stupid to me when he does that crap and he's just as boring in the ring as Cena to me.

Well Orton was also the IWC fave E heel for a while which has now cooled of and moved on to Miz. Who in my view has not gotten much better but just more accepted and the writers have given him better lines.

[ampulator]

I really don't think Cena is the reason for their bleeding of the 18-24 market, in fact I haven't seen anything that claims they are bleeding in that department. Just because thats not their current focused demographic doesn't mean those guys are turning away in droves, or that their bleeding fans from that area.

I would agree that I thought they would go the Ted Jr. face turn and main event push and maybe they were going to go that route but the fans clearly wanted Randy as a face (I'm not sure why the guy is boring and bland to me). However there is no denying he gets a reaction and kudos for them for going with it.

I would have liked to have seen Ted take on a bigger role than just being the Million Dollar Man v 2.0
Actually, it wasn't quite clear at that point. Orton wasn't getting much of a reaction at this point, mostly due to bad booking. But they had nothing more for him as a heel. They played everything out.

And two, I never said Cena was the problem they are bleeding that market. He is the symptom, though. It is what it is now. They ARE bleeding that market, though. That's clear enough.

[Stennick]

Not trying to argue Ampulator but where are you getting that their bleeding that market? I stay pretty up to date with stuff like that and I haven't seen anything that has stated that. Is it your own perception or do you have some sort of source?

[ampulator]

Not trying to argue Ampulator but where are you getting that their bleeding that market? I stay pretty up to date with stuff like that and I haven't seen anything that has stated that. Is it your own perception or do you have some sort of source?
That's a fair point. Unfortunately, these numbers are only known to the WWE and any private polling. If I had such data, I would show it.

But I'm not exactly sure I need it. It's been clear for a while they lost the market to the UFC (and MMA in general). They were losing it after the end of the Attitude Era, but it came clear a couple of years ago, when the Ultimate Fighter came on.

The proof is much in their PPV buys and overall audience. PPV Buys down. UFC's PPV's buys? Up. And since UFC can't take all the fans from boxing, they have to take some from wrestling.

It's not just MY perception, though. It's Jim Cornette's perception. It's Paul Heyman's perception. It's been implied this is Shane McMahon's perception. Dana White thinks it's true. I don't think what I'm saying is false. Maybe I don't have it sourced, but I'm not the only one thinks this is true, and I'm certain someone with better polling information than me (which I can't get anyway) will probably confirm it.

Though to be fair, I don't have a source, at least not a direct one. But In this case, I don't think I need one. I again, admit I don't have one, but you just have to look at the way it's been going with PPV buys and TV ratings, to know that WWE has lost a portion of their audience. They didn't lose the kids. Who could have they lost?

And when bleeding their market, I mean specifically 18-29. I don't mean their whole audience. It's the hot-blooded young male fans. A lot of them are gone. They didn't go away overnight. but small portions went away, one portion at time. Is that not obvious?

I don't think WWE even denies they have lost a lot in that market. They certainly didn't lose ALL of it.

In any case, such information only the WWE only has. I doubt anyone else will pay to know how well WWE does, unless they are competing with them, and have the resources to do such a poll.

[SaySo]

Credit: F4WOnline.com

WWE officials are hoping to have the top three matches for Wrestlemania 27 determined by November of this year.

Sources say that there a number of top WWE Superstars who will be turning heel or babyface on or around Wrestlemania, including one very big name.

Officials are still tossing around the idea of keeping the Money in the Bank match off Wrestlemania and only having it at the Money in the Bank PPV.

[supershot]

Sources say that there a number of top WWE Superstars who will be turning heel or babyface on or around Wrestlemania, including one very big name.


Heel turn for Cena so we can see Cena vs. Taker?

[SaySo]

The streak is going

down down down down down.

The U Been Screwed Job = new catch phrase.

"Taker, Cena Screwed Taker and stole your WrestleMania streak."

[ampulator]

Heel turn for Cena so we can see Cena vs. Taker?
I hope that's going to be it. He's overdue 5 years, if not more, for a turn, anyway.

[PeterHilton]

I hope that's going to be it. He's overdue 5 years, if not more, for a turn, anyway.

His merchandise sales and buy rates would say otherwise..

But yeah..with all the rumors around it could be a Raw vs SD title unification, Streak on the Line, Heel Cena vs Face Undertaker...which would be good even without the turn.

[Stennick]

In 2004 just two years removed from the biggest year in the WWE, Monday Night RAW's highest rating was a 4.4 and their lowest rating was a 2.7, 3.0 and a 3.2.

In 2009 their highest rating was a 4.0 and their lowest was a 3.0

I mention television ratings because for the most part children do not control the remote in the house and for those families with Nielson boxes generally those boxes go on the adult t.v in the home.

So really in the past five years or six years there has been almost zero fluctuation in television ratings for WWE RAW. No growth but certainly no bleeding. Now is it down from the 5's and 6's they were doing in 2000 and 2001? Of course it is but this happens with everything. There are hot periods and cold periods. the WWE declined in fanbase well before UFC ever started to get popular. Just like music artists, movie franchises, and other forms of entertainment you can't sustain a period of record breaking success forever. At some point you fall either the fans get burnt out or you produce a lesser quality of entertainment. So yes if we're basing it off of the attitude era then sure business is down but I don't think its fair to compare wrestling today to wrestling a decade ago.

If we go with strictly the last half decade, five years, thats a good chunk of time and its the same amount of time that the UFC got hot in. Their ratings have stayed the same in television, their ticket sales seem to be the same. The only difference is pay per view buys and thats argually nothing to do with anything more than the crippled world economy.

As far as the UFC dominating them in pay per view buys there is no doubt about that. Some of those fans are boxing fans, and some of those fans are new fans. When the WWE shot up from doing 1.0's in the cable rating's to 6.0's those fans had to come from somewhere right? They came from NEW fans, thats exactly what the UFC is experiencing is new fans. Now have they taken some of the WWE's fans? Sure without a doubt but the UFC is the new WWE attitude. Its rebellious, its in your face, its new, its hot, its in style and most importantly its "real". Bars across the U.S air every UFC pay per view, Applebee's, Chili's, all sorts of restaurant are airing them as well. Not too mention you get together with your friends, you throw a party and you watch the UFC. Its the new Monday Nitro party.

I can't see a promotion who's television ratings haven't changed in six years, who tickets sales haven't declined in six years, and doesn't seem to be doing any less business now than it was six years ago. I can't agree that a promotion that has had sustained, constant success in those areas is being held together by kids. If there was the exodus of 18-29 that people think there is you would see a massive drop in television ratings. Do you really think there enough kids to fill the arenas? I still see them packed full of the same college aged guys along with the kids and the girls. If the young male audience was gone you would see the WWE take a much bigger hit in the last six to seven years than they have. Have some left? Sure but again that happened a decade ago before Dana White ever dreamed the UFC would be doing the numbers their doing.

televisoin ratings (the same) tickets sold (stayed the same), pay per view buys (down).

Honestly the WWE's business from the numbers I've seen is exactly where it was in 2004. The only big difference is pay per views which has some to do with UFC and some to do with the world. Either way the WWE is making a ton of money and I just don't accept that all these young males have bailed on the product and kids are the ones buying 300,000 pay per view buys or ordering 900,000 for Wrestlemania.

Is business down from a decade ago? Of course but again we can't compare that to now. Those of us that were in high school and college then are married with kids and jobs, those of us that were married with kids and jobs now have kids of our own to put through college, etc.

Times change, people change, business changes and wreslting isn't exempt from this. We can't compare the single biggest wrestling boom in history to the business of today.

[djthefunkchris]

In 2004 just two years removed from the biggest year in the WWE, Monday Night RAW's highest rating was a 4.4 and their lowest rating was a 2.7, 3.0 and a 3.2.

In 2009 their highest rating was a 4.0 and their lowest was a 3.0

I mention television ratings because for the most part children do not control the remote in the house and for those families with Nielson boxes generally those boxes go on the adult t.v in the home.

So really in the past five years or six years there has been almost zero fluctuation in television ratings for WWE RAW. No growth but certainly no bleeding. Now is it down from the 5's and 6's they were doing in 2000 and 2001? Of course it is but this happens with everything. There are hot periods and cold periods. the WWE declined in fanbase well before UFC ever started to get popular. Just like music artists, movie franchises, and other forms of entertainment you can't sustain a period of record breaking success forever. At some point you fall either the fans get burnt out or you produce a lesser quality of entertainment. So yes if we're basing it off of the attitude era then sure business is down but I don't think its fair to compare wrestling today to wrestling a decade ago.

If we go with strictly the last half decade, five years, thats a good chunk of time and its the same amount of time that the UFC got hot in. Their ratings have stayed the same in television, their ticket sales seem to be the same. The only difference is pay per view buys and thats argually nothing to do with anything more than the crippled world economy.

As far as the UFC dominating them in pay per view buys there is no doubt about that. Some of those fans are boxing fans, and some of those fans are new fans. When the WWE shot up from doing 1.0's in the cable rating's to 6.0's those fans had to come from somewhere right? They came from NEW fans, thats exactly what the UFC is experiencing is new fans. Now have they taken some of the WWE's fans? Sure without a doubt but the UFC is the new WWE attitude. Its rebellious, its in your face, its new, its hot, its in style and most importantly its "real". Bars across the U.S air every UFC pay per view, Applebee's, Chili's, all sorts of restaurant are airing them as well. Not too mention you get together with your friends, you throw a party and you watch the UFC. Its the new Monday Nitro party.

I can't see a promotion who's television ratings haven't changed in six years, who tickets sales haven't declined in six years, and doesn't seem to be doing any less business now than it was six years ago. I can't agree that a promotion that has had sustained, constant success in those areas is being held together by kids. If there was the exodus of 18-29 that people think there is you would see a massive drop in television ratings. Do you really think there enough kids to fill the arenas? I still see them packed full of the same college aged guys along with the kids and the girls. If the young male audience was gone you would see the WWE take a much bigger hit in the last six to seven years than they have. Have some left? Sure but again that happened a decade ago before Dana White ever dreamed the UFC would be doing the numbers their doing.

televisoin ratings (the same) tickets sold (stayed the same), pay per view buys (down).

Honestly the WWE's business from the numbers I've seen is exactly where it was in 2004. The only big difference is pay per views which has some to do with UFC and some to do with the world. Either way the WWE is making a ton of money and I just don't accept that all these young males have bailed on the product and kids are the ones buying 300,000 pay per view buys or ordering 900,000 for Wrestlemania.

Is business down from a decade ago? Of course but again we can't compare that to now. Those of us that were in high school and college then are married with kids and jobs, those of us that were married with kids and jobs now have kids of our own to put through college, etc.

Times change, people change, business changes and wreslting isn't exempt from this. We can't compare the single biggest wrestling boom in history to the business of today.

This post won't make a difference... I posted something pretty similar a few times, in the stretch of years, and we will see people say all the WWE has is a "Kiddie" audience, especially since they are "PG" now.

To me, the other side is more immature then the PG side, and the 18 to 29 year olds are Kids. So it's more like always been a "Kiddie" show to me, especially 10 years ago, lol.

[Stennick]

Perception is everything but the numbers say they are just as popular all the way across the board as they were six years ago. We have been fortunate to see two giant wrestling booms each one changed the way we look at wrestling forever. Its hard to wrap around the fact that if you're doing 5.0's you're losing fans. Truthfully there are more wrestling fans watching television now than there was in 1995 and 1996 combined. At the end of 1996 both shows were combining for about a 5.0 on the bigger rating nights. Now days their combining for 4.0's on bigger nights.

Anyway I hate this argument because the numbers don't support a drop in anything but pay per view buys and thats the economy, plus UFC, PLUS a raise in prices, plus Justin T.V, plus the internet being more prevelant and affluent than it was in 1997. So many factors go into lesser ppv buys besides them bleeding fans and aside from low ppv numbers their not "low" on any other number for the last half decade plus.

[ampulator]

In 2004 just two years removed from the biggest year in the WWE, Monday Night RAW's highest rating was a 4.4 and their lowest rating was a 2.7, 3.0 and a 3.2.

In 2009 their highest rating was a 4.0 and their lowest was a 3.0

I mention television ratings because for the most part children do not control the remote in the house and for those families with Nielson boxes generally those boxes go on the adult t.v in the home.

So really in the past five years or six years there has been almost zero fluctuation in television ratings for WWE RAW. No growth but certainly no bleeding. Now is it down from the 5's and 6's they were doing in 2000 and 2001? Of course it is but this happens with everything. There are hot periods and cold periods. the WWE declined in fanbase well before UFC ever started to get popular. Just like music artists, movie franchises, and other forms of entertainment you can't sustain a period of record breaking success forever. At some point you fall either the fans get burnt out or you produce a lesser quality of entertainment. So yes if we're basing it off of the attitude era then sure business is down but I don't think its fair to compare wrestling today to wrestling a decade ago.

If we go with strictly the last half decade, five years, thats a good chunk of time and its the same amount of time that the UFC got hot in. Their ratings have stayed the same in television, their ticket sales seem to be the same. The only difference is pay per view buys and thats argually nothing to do with anything more than the crippled world economy.

As far as the UFC dominating them in pay per view buys there is no doubt about that. Some of those fans are boxing fans, and some of those fans are new fans. When the WWE shot up from doing 1.0's in the cable rating's to 6.0's those fans had to come from somewhere right? They came from NEW fans, thats exactly what the UFC is experiencing is new fans. Now have they taken some of the WWE's fans? Sure without a doubt but the UFC is the new WWE attitude. Its rebellious, its in your face, its new, its hot, its in style and most importantly its "real". Bars across the U.S air every UFC pay per view, Applebee's, Chili's, all sorts of restaurant are airing them as well. Not too mention you get together with your friends, you throw a party and you watch the UFC. Its the new Monday Nitro party.

I can't see a promotion who's television ratings haven't changed in six years, who tickets sales haven't declined in six years, and doesn't seem to be doing any less business now than it was six years ago. I can't agree that a promotion that has had sustained, constant success in those areas is being held together by kids. If there was the exodus of 18-29 that people think there is you would see a massive drop in television ratings. Do you really think there enough kids to fill the arenas? I still see them packed full of the same college aged guys along with the kids and the girls. If the young male audience was gone you would see the WWE take a much bigger hit in the last six to seven years than they have. Have some left? Sure but again that happened a decade ago before Dana White ever dreamed the UFC would be doing the numbers their doing.

televisoin ratings (the same) tickets sold (stayed the same), pay per view buys (down).

Honestly the WWE's business from the numbers I've seen is exactly where it was in 2004. The only big difference is pay per views which has some to do with UFC and some to do with the world. Either way the WWE is making a ton of money and I just don't accept that all these young males have bailed on the product and kids are the ones buying 300,000 pay per view buys or ordering 900,000 for Wrestlemania.

Is business down from a decade ago? Of course but again we can't compare that to now. Those of us that were in high school and college then are married with kids and jobs, those of us that were married with kids and jobs now have kids of our own to put through college, etc.

Times change, people change, business changes and wreslting isn't exempt from this. We can't compare the single biggest wrestling boom in history to the business of today.
I don't disagree with this post, but having a 2.0 rating now and 2.0 rating back then is different. And they are bleeding the young male demographic, but making it up in others. They have younger kids, families, and more womean watching. This negates any lose they have in young male demographic for TV. Also, we DID see a good drop in the ratings since the Attittude Era, but it wasn't a single drop. It was a consistent dribble since that era. WWE, like I said, has managed to slowly switch from one demographic to another, but it doesn't mean they staunched the bleeding in the 18-29 market. Remember the issue isn't OVERALL ratings, though they have dropped. It's the 18-29 I'm talking about.

But for the PPV? I just don't see a mother of families buying PPV's on a constant basis for their kid to watch it.

Second, I never said the WHOLE demographic bailed. That's just improbable. I AM saying a lot of them bailed.

Did all of them go to the UFC? No. Did some of them switch? Yes. With our without the UFC, WWE's young male demographics numbers likely have dropped, even as WWE has tried to make up for it other areas.

No one is arguing WWE has managed to make their TV ratings consistent. But if you look at who buys the PPV's and who attends the shows, it's clearly less young adult males. They are the most willing to shelve out money for PPV's.

No one argues about WWE's RAW TV ratings. It's the young male demographic. That's the issue.

[djthefunkchris]

I don't disagree with this post, but having a 2.0 rating now and 2.0 rating back then is different. And they are bleeding the young male demographic, but making it up in others. They have younger kids, families, and more womean watching. This negates any lose they have in young male demographic for TV. Also, we DID see a good drop in the ratings since the Attittude Era, but it wasn't a single drop. It was a consistent dribble since that era. WWE, like I said, has managed to slowly switch from one demographic to another, but it doesn't mean they staunched the bleeding in the 18-29 market. Remember the issue isn't OVERALL ratings, though they have dropped. It's the 18-29 I'm talking about.

But for the PPV? I just don't see a mother of families buying PPV's on a constant basis for their kid to watch it.

Second, I never said the WHOLE demographic bailed. That's just improbable. I AM saying a lot of them bailed.

Did all of them go to the UFC? No. Did some of them switch? Yes. With our without the UFC, WWE's young male demographics numbers likely have dropped, even as WWE has tried to make up for it other areas.

No one is arguing WWE has managed to make their TV ratings consistent. But if you look at who buys the PPV's and who attends the shows, it's clearly less young adult males. They are the most willing to shelve out money for PPV's.

No one argues about WWE's RAW TV ratings. It's the young male demographic. That's the issue.

You have no basis, nothing at all that I've read that supports you claim here. The only thing I can think of is your thinking "Oh, they went PG for the kiddies" and figure that done it. However, this happened rather recently, and the ratings were effected alot longer before that happened.

You said "bleeding". When someone says that, it sounds like you mean they are losing them in droves.

A 2.0 back then, and a 2.0 rating now is alot different. The rating numbers are based on a population percent. There are more people now, so a 2.0 now is more people then a 2.0 10 years ago. A 4.0 now is alot more then it was then as well.

[Hyde Hill]

The more people argument does not hold as it is all about market share which is the reason they use ratings, WWE's market share has declined. Now the fact that due to diversification average market shares have gone down across the board does count if that is the case.


The average ratings have gone down the last couple of years. Their fluctuation has staid the same but the average is down. Now if there was separate data available for their 18-29 male demo we could make some conclusions. While I know there is separate data for the 18-39 group rating's wise I have never seen that collected and averaged out over time.

I do agree that the impact of UFC on the wrestling business is vastly over estimated by wrestling fans.

[eayragt]

But it's not all about market share. That's the quoted number as that's what Nielsen boxes measure- what proportion of those with a box are watching. Turning that to an actual volume is not an exact science, but that does not mean the volume is not important. Both share and volume have their uses.

[Hyde Hill]

I know that eaygrat but dj was talking about the fact that WWE's total number of viewers have not gone down. That does not matter as it is market share that rates popularity etc. The total number of potential viewers has gone up etc but the E has not been able to attract the same percentage of viewers from them as before. Thus they have declined in popularity.

[sabataged]

I know that eaygrat but dj was talking about the fact that WWE's total number of viewers have not gone down. That does not matter as it is market share that rates popularity etc. The total number of potential viewers has gone up etc but the E has not been able to attract the same percentage of viewers from them as before. Thus they have declined in popularity.


Your Math is backwards i think. If they are doing a 4 then, and a 4 now. They are actually gaining more viewers because a 4 is the share based on the number of tv sets now and the number of tv sets then. If their are more tv sets now then the current 4 is weighted out higher. Think of it as percents, that is basically how they figure the share. If there used to be 110.9 million tv sets in the United States 5 years ago and now there are 115.9 million in 2010. A 4.0 share or 4% of that audience would be higher now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_ratings

[djthefunkchris]

Your Math is backwards i think. If they are doing a 4 then, and a 4 now. They are actually gaining more viewers because a 4 is the share based on the number of tv sets now and the number of tv sets then. If their are more tv sets now then the current 4 is weighted out higher. Think of it as percents, that is basically how they figure the ratings. If there used to be 110.9 million tv sets in the United States 5 years ago and now there are 115.9 million in 2010. A 4.0 share or 4% of that audience would be higher now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_ratings

As has TNA's, for example.

edit: Just to add to this. The overall percentage has NOT increased, but the viewers have.

[lazorbeak]

I know that eaygrat but dj was talking about the fact that WWE's total number of viewers have not gone down. That does not matter as it is market share that rates popularity etc. The total number of potential viewers has gone up etc but the E has not been able to attract the same percentage of viewers from them as before. Thus they have declined in popularity.

What DJ is talking about is the complete opposite of a decline.

Kudos to Stennick and DJ for being the voice of reason here.

[Hyde Hill]

Yes total number of viewers is up

Market share is stable or slight decline.

Ratings cover market share and sponsors and television execs look for market share.

I am not arguing ampulator's point and I agree with Stennick but just pointing out that just because the total number of viewers has increased or stayed the same does not mean that WWE has not lost popularity.

[Hyde Hill]

Let's just make this real clear.

First off all I am talking about the E's market share of total television viewers. Not their market share of wrestling fans.

Second your relative share of the market determines your popularity not the total number of consumption.

A quick example.

Say you are in the candy selling business.

At one date 100 people are able to buy your candy and 3 people do.

Now at a later date 1000 people are able to buy your candy and still just 3 people do.

This is a sharp decline in popularity and what I thought DJ was talking about in his 2.0 example then he is wrong.

Now if at that first date with just one hundred people you only had say ten competitors and they where all selling 12-8 candy bars then your relative market share is weak.

Now if at that latter date with one thousand people you had a thousand competitors and they where selling 1-2 candy pars then your relative market share is strong.

If this is what DJ was talking about then he is right. As I already said with this:


Now the fact that due to diversification average market shares have gone down across the board does count if that is the case.

I am also not saying that volume does not matter when it comes to base numbers profit or that market share determines everything when it comes to base numbers profit just saying that a decline in relative market share is a decline in popularity and does effect
base number profits.

[Hyde Hill]

What eaygrat was talking about was the (in) accuracy of Neilsen numbers. While I agree with that. It does not matter so much as they are the industry standard when it comes to determining a show's relative drawing power -> popularity.

[SaySo]

Dave Meltzer wrote:

One interesting thing to look at is that as much as people talk about the millions and millions of viewers who no longer watch wrestling, the reality is that the WWE audience, despite the ratings being in the low to mid-3s, isn't down significantly from the base audience during the boom period. The difference is that because more people have TVs and the audience for USA Network is so much bigger now than it was during the late ’90s/early ’00s, the ratings for the show would be down significantly even if all else remained equal. Ten years ago, on July 10, 2000, Raw did a 6.03 rating. You look at a 6.03 ten years ago and a 3.38 today and you think, wow, WWE is sinking fast. But in reality, that 6.03 is the percentage of people watching the show based on the number of homes that have the channel, the latter of which is much, much larger today. In terms of average number of actual viewers, the July 10, 2000 Raw did 5 million viewers and the July 19, 2010 Raw did 4.8 million viewers, statistically pretty much a dead heat. Now, granted, that's not to say there is as much interest in wrestling today as there was ten years ago because that's not the case at all. You had an extra three million viewers watching on Monday nights, they were just watching the other show (astounding when you consider the state of WCW in mid-2000, and really embarrassing for TNA today). Plus, a lot of those WCW viewers and viewers who didn't bother watching the shows normally were willing to switch to Raw during major segments in the 10:00 hour, often involving Rock and Austin, leading to some of them hitting eight and nine million viewers, numbers Raw today isn't approaching anytime soon. So yes, Raw was much, much hotter, but a boom period is about adding casual fans to whatever your base audience is, and at the end of the day, the base audience today is not significantly different for Raw than it was during the boom.

[PeterHilton]

Over the last FIVE years, I don't think the E has lost anything except their PPV numbers are down across the board (and who knows how much of that is popularity and how much is economy)

If you want to make the "losing young males" argument, it's much easier to see comparing numbers from 10 years ago to now. But as Stennick said, 10 years is a long stretch of time to make that comparison.

If the underlying question is: Is the WWE losing The Young Male Audience?

My response would be: Maybe, but do they care?

Their profits are solid. Their ratings are steady. They've figured out a way to make money even when their live gates and PPVs are down. The biggest effect is arguably the loss of the "cool" factor, because it's just hard to be considered part of cutting edge mainstream when you're marketing yourself as family friendly entertainment.

So yeah..I actually do think they've lost a chunk of the male 18-39 audience. And I definitely feel like that demographic is probably where they lost most of their PPV buys. But I'm not sure it's that important. Because..in the long run...the family values market makes them more money, more reliably, and is far more predictable

[PeterHilton]

To what Hyde said:

Market share is down.

Popularity is down.

I think both are true and it would be hard to argue otherwise.

But that's also why they changed their business model. Honestly, i feel like if you were to ask the people in charge there and they gave you a straight answer, they'd tell you that they went after a softer, safer, less volatile market because doing the wrestling boom & bust is just too damned volatile.

Vince McMahon came damn close to losing everything and he's spent every day since then making sure it could never happen again.

[ampulator]

Over the last FIVE years, I don't think the E has lost anything except their PPV numbers are down across the board (and who knows how much of that is popularity and how much is economy)

If you want to make the "losing young males" argument, it's much easier to see comparing numbers from 10 years ago to now. But as Stennick said, 10 years is a long stretch of time to make that comparison.

If the underlying question is: Is the WWE losing The Young Male Audience?

My response would be: Maybe, but do they care?

Their profits are solid. Their ratings are steady. They've figured out a way to make money even when their live gates and PPVs are down. The biggest effect is arguably the loss of the "cool" factor, because it's just hard to be considered part of cutting edge mainstream when you're marketing yourself as family friendly entertainment.

So yeah..I actually do think they've lost a chunk of the male 18-39 audience. And I definitely feel like that demographic is probably where they lost most of their PPV buys. But I'm not sure it's that important. Because..in the long run...the family values market makes them more money, more reliably, and is far more predictable
That's my point though. I don't think anyone ARGUES those points, if at all. But I'm not exactly sure WWE can rely on being more family-oriented. Of course, it worked for them in the past, but it feelis like a losing strategy for an industry that seems less family-oriented. Not necessarily family-unfriendly (there were NWA promotions that were family-friendly), but they seem to mistake being family-oriented to being family-friendly.

You have no basis, nothing at all that I've read that supports you claim here. The only thing I can think of is your thinking "Oh, they went PG for the kiddies" and figure that done it. However, this happened rather recently, and the ratings were effected alot longer before that happened.

You said "bleeding". When someone says that, it sounds like you mean they are losing them in droves.

A 2.0 back then, and a 2.0 rating now is alot different. The rating numbers are based on a population percent. There are more people now, so a 2.0 now is more people then a 2.0 10 years ago. A 4.0 now is alot more then it was then as well.
The reason I have no basis is because they are no public numbers available. Ask any industry person, though, and they won't dispute it. And issue isn't GOING PG. They are a lot of good PG programming. The problem is WWE hs been losing this demographic.

Look in a couple of years, we'll see who's right. I can sit back let this happen, and not say anything, or I can say something beforehand.

The thing is, I WANT TO BE PROVEN wrong. But nothing you have shown has proven me wrong. All it was proven is their OVERALL numbers have been down since 5 years ago. Yeah, but that's really doesn't say anything. The thing is, they lost their original core audience, and they have new one. The difference is, it was a slow change, not a big one.

Has anyone ever argued their overall numbers have been down? No. At least, not by much. The argument isn't about PG either. It's about losing the young male demographics for me. If they continue to make a less young-male friendly product, it will hurt them. Not now, not in a year. but in a couple of years, it will likely do so.

[eayragt]

What eaygrat was talking about was the (in) accuracy of Neilsen numbers. While I agree with that. It does not matter so much as they are the industry standard when it comes to determining a show's relative drawing power -> popularity.

I'm not to worried about whether Nielsen figures are inaccurate or not, I was just pointing out that volume matters to. WWE's share may have slipped by say half (for simplicity), but if their volume of watchers has slipped by 1/10th, are they 10% or 50% worse off? The simple answer is somewhere in the middle.

Someone like Stennick would have to confirm, as these are just my thoughts, but which demographics have increased in volume in the last ten years? I would guess females and the elderly. If I'm right (I may be completely off base), then the WWE isn't going to care about decreasing shares nearly as much (therefore in my example would likely by ~10% worse off) as if the increased volume came in the 18-29 yo males (where they'd be ~50% worse off).

In the end it comes down to revenue, and WWE has shown a decreased share. However, if there aren't alternatives to invest revenue into that appeal to the same demographic that has increased to take WWE's shares then they are no worse off, assuming investment maintains overall at a status quo level (which it does not).

Now, we know there are some alternatives that have increased (e.g. MMA), while others have shown even my significant decreases (e.g. boxing). We then also know that WWE have tried to reposition themselves to investors, confusing things even more.

So in my opinion, what does it mean? Same as, really. WWE have lost a few viewers, and changed demographics (in reality they've lost a lot of viewers and gained a lot of viewers). As long as revenue's coming in, all power to them. And revenue is coming in, even through a period of recession. I don't think I'm in a position to knock what they're doing.

[Hyde Hill]

Ok it was more about that volume also plays a very large part in revenue. Can't disagree there and yeah it's between 10 and 50 percent in that example.

[PeterHilton]

That's my point though. I don't think anyone ARGUES those points, if at all. But I'm not exactly sure WWE can rely on being more family-oriented. Of course, it worked for them in the past, but it feelis like a losing strategy for an industry that seems less family-oriented. Not necessarily family-unfriendly (there were NWA promotions that were family-friendly), but they seem to mistake being family-oriented to being family-friendly.

Whether or not its 'family friendly' vs 'family oriented' is a matter of opinion, honestly.

There are some episodes of Raw I watch with my son that I cringe, some that I literally have nothing to argue with content-wise

Has anyone ever argued their overall numbers have been down? No. At least, not by much. The argument isn't about PG either. It's about losing the young male demographics for me. If they continue to make a less young-male friendly product, it will hurt them. Not now, not in a year. but in a couple of years, it will likely do so.

I'd say that it is MUCH easier to cater to the family entertainment crowd then to try to keep the increasingly fickle young male audience happy. By the time the writing team picked up on one popular trend to write to, a dozen more would've come and gone.

Plus, then you really are competing directly with UFC and the WWE would lose that fight.

[Stennick]

So I have the day off of work, I decided after writing a long dynasty show last night that beer was the best way to end the night. I just woke up and although my mind is foggy I'm not sure what the argument is.

There is no way of knowing just how popular or unpopular this show is with young males. If its true that young males are no longer watching then the decline in viewership would have had exactly steady with the rise in kids and families. 500,000 young males leave the scene, 500,000 families come in.

I think that would be pretty rare considering as someone pointed out the show is drawing nearly the same viewers now as it was in 2000. As Peter pointed out, they really don't care who is watching as long as their watching. I got news for all those 18-29 year old males, nobody cares about you anymore.

Women and families in the economy are what people are marketing towards these days (I should know its my job) so really if they ARE losing the red blooded american young male they don't care. The UFC has a much broader audience than people would suspect. Their female numbers are WAY higher than wrestlings were (except possibly during its boom period).

This is such a silly thing to debate becauase neither side has a single number. Without numbers we can just go off of speculation. Without numbers Fully Loaded 2000 might in your eyes be the biggest pay per view ever but with numbers we can say "no just because you LIKE that show or just because you BELIEVE that show is the biggest doesn't make it so".

In my world numbers are the only thing that matters. Now of course if we were airing WWE RAW I'd be able to tell you what they were drawing in that young male category but then I'd have to find what they were drawing in that back in the Attitude era. Simply put very few people have those numbers and none of us are them so there is no need to argue about it.

The WWE is more of a power around the world today than it was in 2000. People used to show up to see Hogan, The Rock, Undertaker, Austin, etc. now people show up to see the WWE brand and that was a brilliant move on Vince's part and its also part of the reason why it will be next to impossible (barring something life changing) for any other professional wrestling company to get their foot in the door. Vince has been the ONLY pro wrestling company for nearly ten years. Ask other operating systems how close they are to taking down Microsoft....it'll never happen again barring some life changing event nobody will ever get CLOSE to microsoft and nobody will get close to the WWE. Its not the product that sells its the brand.

[Linsolv]

I'd say that it is MUCH easier to cater to the family entertainment crowd then to try to keep the increasingly fickle young male audience happy. By the time the writing team picked up on one popular trend to write to, a dozen more would've come and gone.

Plus, then you really are competing directly with UFC and the WWE would lose that fight.

(Bolded for emphasis)

Are you kidding? There's no trick to finding out what's cool; Twitter publishes a list of trending tags. Just look at them. They even indicate what is likely to trend in Google searches. That might've been true 10 years ago, or 5, but now if a bunch of writers can't figure out what 18-29 wants, they're inexcusably stupid.

[Stennick]

You don't understand what he was saying, what he was saying is you can't base a storyline about what is trending on twitter.

Track it some time that stuff is so up and down, there is no consistency to it. You base it on something on there and a month from now thats gonna be old news.

Does Jessie Slaughter and You Dun Goofed ring a bell? You can't just base it on something that is trending on twitter and hope to have more than a week out of it. The Internet changes direction so quick these days that you'd be better off sticking with traditional stuff than trying to keep up with twitter or google.

[sabataged]

Dave Meltzer wrote:

One interesting thing to look at is that as much as people talk about the millions and millions of viewers who no longer watch wrestling, the reality is that the WWE audience, despite the ratings being in the low to mid-3s, isn't down significantly from the base audience during the boom period. The difference is that because more people have TVs and the audience for USA Network is so much bigger now than it was during the late ’90s/early ’00s, the ratings for the show would be down significantly even if all else remained equal. Ten years ago, on July 10, 2000, Raw did a 6.03 rating. You look at a 6.03 ten years ago and a 3.38 today and you think, wow, WWE is sinking fast. But in reality, that 6.03 is the percentage of people watching the show based on the number of homes that have the channel, the latter of which is much, much larger today. In terms of average number of actual viewers, the July 10, 2000 Raw did 5 million viewers and the July 19, 2010 Raw did 4.8 million viewers, statistically pretty much a dead heat. Now, granted, that's not to say there is as much interest in wrestling today as there was ten years ago because that's not the case at all. You had an extra three million viewers watching on Monday nights, they were just watching the other show (astounding when you consider the state of WCW in mid-2000, and really embarrassing for TNA today). Plus, a lot of those WCW viewers and viewers who didn't bother watching the shows normally were willing to switch to Raw during major segments in the 10:00 hour, often involving Rock and Austin, leading to some of them hitting eight and nine million viewers, numbers Raw today isn't approaching anytime soon. So yes, Raw was much, much hotter, but a boom period is about adding casual fans to whatever your base audience is, and at the end of the day, the base audience today is not significantly different for Raw than it was during the boom.


Well said

[Hyde Hill]

Now if there was separate data available for their 18-29 male demo we could make some conclusions. While I know there is separate data for the 18-39 group rating's wise I have never seen that collected and averaged out over time.

Yep totally agree on the need for data Stennick. Although WWE's stranglehold on wrestling is not as big as Window's on operating systems in my view they are a very strong near monopoly and have been a total monopoly from 2001-2006.

(PS can you believe that Impact has only been on prime time since nov 2006 and 2 hours since okt 207)

[Hyde Hill]

Well said

But either badly copy pasted or badly written:p

[Stennick]

Actually I think its bigger than that on Windows. There Linux and Mac make up a bigger percentage of the "fan base" than TNA and the indies do.

The best example is when they went head to head and fans couldn't overlap the WWE percentage wise absolutely dominated TNA.

When these O.S companies go head to head Microsoft still dominants but there are a higher percentage of MAC and Linux fans out there that would choose them over Windows. To where is there isn't that high of a fan base that would choose any wrestling over the WWE.

So I would say the WWE has a stronger market hold on wrestling than even Microsoft does on the O.S market.

[SaySo]

Here is the WWE annual financial reports from 2006 to 2009.

http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/wwelostwire_sg1/WWEstatement06-09.jpg

Comparing first quarter results between 2008 and 2009.
http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/wwelostwire_sg1/WWE20092008FirstQuarter.jpg

==

This compares the second quarter results along with the totals up to June 30 between 2009 and 2010.
http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/wwelostwire_sg1/WWE20102009comparison.jpg

[SaySo]

But either badly copy pasted or badly written:p

Badly copy pasted. I wish i could find the original Dave Meltzer article. I got that one from another poster who quoted exactly that.

[PeterHilton]

(Bolded for emphasis)

Are you kidding? There's no trick to finding out what's cool; Twitter publishes a list of trending tags. Just look at them. They even indicate what is likely to trend in Google searches. That might've been true 10 years ago, or 5, but now if a bunch of writers can't figure out what 18-29 wants, they're inexcusably stupid.

Stennick already responded, but I just wanted to say that this was a pretty silly point.

Sooooo..7 months ago I debut a guys called The Double Rainbow Warrior? And then destroy the character a week later? Should I check Twitter today and then write a segment about Eve wearing a meatdress and then talking about Justin Bieber?

The problems isn't the writers..it's that pop culture moves so quickly it would be impossible to hit the stuff that's cool before it doubles back on itslef and ends up being played out

[Stennick]

Stennick already responded, but I just wanted to say that this was a pretty silly point.

Sooooo..7 months ago I debut a guys called The Double Rainbow Warrior? And then destroy the character a week later? Should I check Twitter today and then write a segment about Eve wearing a meatdress and then talking about Justin Bieber?

The problems isn't the writers..it's that pop culture moves so quickly it would be impossible to hit the stuff that's cool before it doubles back on itslef and ends up being played out

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!! Its like I just.....just said that SAME thing :D

[PeterHilton]

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!! Its like I just.....just said that SAME thing :D

I said you said it already.

I just wanted to throw out the Eve in a meatdress visual. ;)

[Stennick]

This is a family board so I'm leaving all meat....dress references alone ;)

[ewanite]

A twitter trending topic a few days ago was #abortionclinicplaylistsongs. That is all.

[PeterHilton]

A twitter trending topic a few days ago was #abortionclinicplaylistsongs. That is all.

And how long before Vince Russo tries to run with it?

[Stennick]

Theres not a man in his family if he doesn't. I need more abortion clinic playlist storylines in my pro wrasslin!!!

[b0shey]

Just done watchin NXT, Heel Michael Cole is just to funny :D

[Linsolv]

You're right. My comment was silly.

That said, I made it because the comment I quoted was, to my ears, equally silly. I mean. Not as misguided but it's absurd to think that you need to be on the bleeding edge of culture. If you do, if you absolutely need to be the next best thing at all times? Actually yeah. You're going to get a product that moves and shifts quite frequently, because the cutting edge of pop culture is erratic and confused. That said, if you wanted to be on the cutting edge, it's not hard.

Now, on the other hand, you could point out dozens of things that have been successful in targeting the 18-29 male audience, assuming they're needed which I believe was challenged either. The Nexus has been pretty hot with pretty much every demographic. Then there's the way that TNA's been handling Anderson. Or the way they were, I haven't watched in like 2 months.

Besides -- currently trending in the US: #how2ruinsex. Who doesn't want to see that play out? [Considering, if they managed to work it out in a way that was tasteful, it would fit right into the whole storyline with Maryse and Ted DiBiase, and would more than likely come off a lot like typical WWE comedy.]

[PeterHilton]

You're right. My comment was silly.

That said, I made it because the comment I quoted was, to my ears, equally silly. I mean. Not as misguided but it's absurd to think that you need to be on the bleeding edge of culture. If you do, if you absolutely need to be the next best thing at all times? Actually yeah. You're going to get a product that moves and shifts quite frequently, because the cutting edge of pop culture is erratic and confused. That said, if you wanted to be on the cutting edge, it's not hard.



Linsolv, I never said one couldn't keep up with what's cool. I said it would be hard to write to and specifically MUCH harder than doing a family friendly program

I think ECW was a cutting edge program..but that was also the internet in its infancy.

Besides -- currently trending in the US: #how2ruinsex. Who doesn't want to see that play out?

I sense a return of Mr McMahon tothe TV screen

[Linsolv]

I guess that's true. 18-29 isn't that hard to write for, but 8-15 writes itself. :o

[sabataged]

So off that topic...the rmor currently is that a big name will turn before WM. Everyone auotmatically assumes it will be Cena. I think it will actually be HHH after he returns. Wether we like it or not Cena sells too many tshirts to the kids. Until that stops for some reason I dont see him turning. I see HHH coming back to a big pop and then making a big heel turn. Maybe he Can even say that Sheamus showed him what he used to be like or some crap. I just think Taker has 2 WMs left in him and 1 will be HHH and the last will be Cena.

[supershot]

Everyone auotmatically assumes it will be Cena. I think it will actually be HHH after he returns. .

I'm not really assuming it will be Cena.. it's more of a dream :p

[Hyde Hill]

Linsolv, I never said one couldn't keep up with what's cool. I said it would be hard to write to and specifically MUCH harder than doing a family friendly program

I think ECW was a cutting edge program..but that was also the internet in its infancy.



I sense a return of Mr McMahon tothe TV screen

Also to do with there being a larger and broader cultural movement at that time in pop culture so to speak. Counter culture, alternative hero's, Grunge etc etc. Stepping away from the squicky clean 80's.

It's been a while since something like that has happened in my view. The internet may be partly to blame or the internet and more accurately social networking is that larger movement at the moment. But that is a whole other discussion.

[Hyde Hill]

I would go with Orton going heel again as they don't know how to write for or use a heelish face any more. Still weird to turn anybody heel at this point as the rosters seem quite heel heavy especially RAW.

[Hyde Hill]

How many people watched Episode 2 of Season 3?

The September 14 edition of NXT, featuring an obstacle course & a Diva Jokeoff, did a 1.01 rating with 1,203,000 viewers.

What has gotten into people? They actually like the long drawn out diva contest? Or was there absolutely nothing else on tv?

[brashleyholland]

I just think Taker has 2 WMs left in him and 1 will be HHH and the last will be Cena.

I'm not even that much of a wrestling fan, but the thought of The Undertaker losing to John Cena in his last match (I assume he'll be losing his WM streak to put somebody over in his last match) kinda makes me do a little sick in my mouth.

I always assumed he'd lose to 'the next big thing' when he finally gives up the WM streak. Being 'that guy' would be worth more than any title belt, surely.

[Johnny Fenoli]

What has gotten into people? They actually like the long drawn out diva contest? Or was there absolutely nothing else on tv?

I enjoyed it.

[Hyde Hill]

No accounting for taste but after last week I thought it would bomb but it has actually gone up?

[sabataged]

I'm not even that much of a wrestling fan, but the thought of The Undertaker losing to John Cena in his last match (I assume he'll be losing his WM streak to put somebody over in his last match) kinda makes me do a little sick in my mouth.

I always assumed he'd lose to 'the next big thing' when he finally gives up the WM streak. Being 'that guy' would be worth more than any title belt, surely.


I dont see him losing the streak. But that is what the match would sell on.

[Stennick]

He won't lose the streak for two reasons.

1. The young guys that could benefit a rub from this aren't a sure thing to stick around. What happens if you put Brock over Taker, or Lashley over Taker, or Shelton Benjamin back when he was almost a main eventer against Evolution, or whoever. They pushed Brock as the next best thing, they pushed Lashley gave them both mega pushes only to have them leave. Their gun shy on doing this kind of push with anyone else. Not even the Celtic Warrior has gotten the kind of push Lashley and Lesnar got.

2. Those guys that DO stick around don't need the rub from beating Taker. Cena would gain nothing, Orton would gain nothing, Edge would gain nothing, etc.

So there is no advantage to having someone beat Taker. If they have a new guy that they want to push go over him nobody knows if he's going to stick around and they could be watching a guy in TNA or a guy in the UFC walking around with something thats way more important than a title reign. If they have an established guy do it, there isn't any need. They can't get MORE of a rub.

Taker's never losing at Mania period.

[Comradebot]

Why on earth would the WWE turn Cena? Seriously? Did Vince wake up and say "by golly, we're making too much money... let's make sure Cena's merchandise sales go down!"

I agree, Triple H is the best candidate. For starters, he's a MUCH better heel than face, indeed during the Monday Night Wars and his initial run into the main event, I'd say he was one of the absolute best heels of all time. Anyone else remember his "wedding" with Stephanie? Great stuff.

And then you look at it... they JUST turned Orton face a few months ago, and that was a sorta big deal. Then you got Cena who will be a perma-face probably for a decade.

Trips turning heel would be huge, and could lead to an awesome feud with him and Cena or even Orton.

[SaySo]

No accounting for taste but after last week I thought it would bomb but it has actually gone up?

Heel Michael Cole is a draw. And he actually agrees with your statement if you watch his rants on NXT last night. He quit on the show. Twice last night he hit the gong repeatedly and said that this show should be gonged. Apparently the gaydar went off the roof because he was fine the first two season...coincidentally had The Miz on both.

[SaySo]

Source - PWTorch.com

Last night's episode of WWE NXT scored a basic 0.90 rating and averaged 1.20 million viewers over the course of the show.

TV viewership was up slightly from last week's 1.15 million viewers for the NXT Season Three premiere.

Looking at the demographic numbers, NXT was up marginally to a 0.64 rating among males 18-49 compared to a 0.55 rating last week. The demographic rating was down from a 0.66 two weeks ago for the Season Two finale.

The rating among males 12-17 upticked slightly to a 0.77 rating from a 0.70 rating last week. The demographic rating was a 1.23 for the Season Two finale two weeks ago.

Caldwell's Analysis: No real significant changes here for WWE's lameduck hour of TV on Tuesday nights. With only two remaining episodes remaining on Syfy, this is likely where the current NXT season will settle into just above 1.00 million viewers.

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm pwi where my numbers came from are generally closer to the mark then the Torch imho but nice to have the demographic info. So if Cole really quit then nxt will bomb for the final two episodes? Not that it will matter much.

[Candyman]

I'm not even that much of a wrestling fan, but the thought of The Undertaker losing to John Cena in his last match (I assume he'll be losing his WM streak to put somebody over in his last match) kinda makes me do a little sick in my mouth.

I always assumed he'd lose to 'the next big thing' when he finally gives up the WM streak. Being 'that guy' would be worth more than any title belt, surely.

Well the thing is, if he does lose it, it has to be to Cena. There's nobody else you could consider, honestly.

It can't be a next big thing type, because who knows if they're going to fizzle out or go to MMA or anything like that. There's no reason to give it to anybody you know won't bomb afterwards...those guys don't gain enough from it. The one and only exception to that, however, is Cena. Cena is the only guy that has a chance to go beyond just a main eventer. He has a chance to be the next Hogan/Austin/Rock. But it takes something special to get you there.

I laugh at the people who say Cena has nothing to gain. Did Hogan have nothing to gain when he bodyslammed and pinned Andre? Did Rock have nothing to gain when he wrestled Hogan and beat him? That's what Cena would gain. That moment...the moment when Cena gives Undertaker the Attitude Adjustment and pins him at Wrestlemania, ending his streak...would stick with Cena for the rest of his career. It'd be celebrated and talked about for as long as the WWE is open. That'd take him from Triple H main eventer to Hulk Hogan main eventer. That's why it has to be him, if anybody does it.

[SaySo]

The best segment of last night show besides Vickie getting a bit jealous off of her rookie Kaitlynn (Celeste Bonin) after the rook celebrated with IC Champion Dolph Ziggler at the end of their match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0czqdcYsSh0

*I agree with Candyman. It would make perfect sense for Cena to do it. Especially if he's going to turn heel in the process. I believe Cena will cheat his way to victory and robbing the UnderTaker of the streak. It will be his Andre bodyslam moment. Or Montreal Screwjob. Especially they could play into the fact that his Hollywood career hasn't drawn and he blames the fans for not paying to watch him. Now he's going to stick into wrestling and ruin the dreams of many watching at home and people in the back.

[Stennick]

Well the thing is, if he does lose it, it has to be to Cena. There's nobody else you could consider, honestly.

I laugh at the people who say Cena has nothing to gain. Did Hogan have nothing to gain when he bodyslammed and pinned Andre? Did Rock have nothing to gain when he wrestled Hogan and beat him? That's what Cena would gain. That moment...the moment when Cena gives Undertaker the Attitude Adjustment and pins him at Wrestlemania, ending his streak...would stick with Cena for the rest of his career. It'd be celebrated and talked about for as long as the WWE is open. That'd take him from Triple H main eventer to Hulk Hogan main eventer. That's why it has to be him, if anybody does it.

Hogan was already the biggest star in the world, main eventing with Mr. T, etc. It was an iconic moment and it drew big business thats what they gained. Was putting 90,000 butts in the seats.

Taker vs. Cena is not going to put any more butts in the seats than Taker vs. Shawn Michaels did. Its not going to draw more than that did, so really no Cena would have nothing to gain by beating Taker. Cena pinning the Undertaker at Wrestlemania isn't going to increase ratings, buys or anything. It won't do a single thing for business in the WWE because it takes more than one match (no matter who and when in time it was put on) to turn business to an upswing. Hogan vs. Flair didn't defeat the WWE did it? Andre vs. Hogan was forgotten a year later with their Wrestlmania IV being countered by free t.v. Honestly if WCW put on the Clash during Wrestlemania III do you think people wouldn't have bought it and watched the Clash? To coin a phrase I don't think so (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd7AZB7Uobw). People woudln't have even known the Clash was on. So less than a year after the most iconic match in history and the WWF was beat out by a free television show. A year earlier that would have NEVER happened. Thus proving that in the long term that match did nothing for business.

What did Rock gain by beating Hogan at Wrestlemania? That was Wrestlemania 18. Do you know how many wrestling matches the Rock has had since then? 33 matches, I just counted them, including house shows the Rock wrestled in 33 matches, he wrestled in 7 more months since then, and he wrestled on SIX more pay per views after defeating Hulk Hogan. Thats it, thats all he did the rest of his career. So yeah I'm going to go out on a limb and say beating Hulk Hogan did absolutely nothing for Hogan or The Rock other than have a moment (that they can't even talk about because The Rock isn't with them and neither is Hogan. One's in Hollywood making more money in one film than he did all year long in the WWE. The other is on their rival's television show every week).

So look at that Hogan's gone to TNA, Austin's retired trying to be a Hollywood star, The Rock IS a Hollywood star, Brock is in the UFC, Lashley is doing whatever Lashley does. ALL of these men were given "Iconic" matches. Brock vs. Hogan, Brock vs. Rock, Brock vs. Angle, etc. on big pay per views Summer Slam, Wrestlemania, etc. Lashley got Donald Trump and feuded with Vince McMahon an honor that outside of DX and Steve Austin nobody had ever been given.

So again if history tells us anything this "big match" is just that a big match. And with Cena's fragile fan base the way it is the last thing you want him to do is match up against Taker's streak and bring the boo birds out again.

[PeterHilton]

So again if history tells us anything this "big match" is just that a big match. And with Cena's fragile fan base the way it is the last thing you want him to do is match up against Taker's streak and bring the boo birds out again.

Actually, if it was me, that's EXACTLY what I'd do: keep Cena face, match him against Taker, and then let the naturally split crowd create the heat during the match...sorta like the way the crowd was in Houston for Rock vs Austin at WMX7 (?)..

The way the character is, Cena and Taker in a title vs title match wouldn't need a turn (Cena could talk about the challenge, honoring the fans, all that Tim Tebow crap) so why do it?

Make it about the belts, make it about the streak, let the fans pick their favorite, and watch the crowd go white hot w/o doing much of anything

[ampulator]

I agree that Cena won't turn heel, but I disagree that he shouldn't. He should. They will take a hit, but anytime you change something, you always take a hit in the process. That being said, placing Cena against the Undertaker is a bad idea. Cena's fanbase is a mile wide, but an inch deep. Undertaker's support is just as wide, but also deeper.

[Stennick]

There is a difference in taking a hit and what they would do if Cena turned heel. He is by FAR their biggest merchandise seller and he's the franchise face of the company.

The WWF has never and will never turn their biggest merch sellers heel. Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, John Cena, three generations all the same thing in common. Face of the company, top draw, merchandise monsters. None of them turned heel except Austin and he did it well after his primary running days were over with.

Who is going to replace Cena on top? Orton, Randy is not the "face of the company". He's not the kissing baby, white meat, smiling babyface they need on top with their current product and sponsors.

Would Cena turning heel make more money? Who knows, its not worth the risk. A guy like Cena comes along once in a generation why put the next five years of crazy money on hold so you can run a program with him as a heel. What happens if he can't play a heel in the current envirement. The only time he's played a heel was when he was a rapper and even that was what? A year tops that he was heel. That was seven years ago, there is no evidence John has the ability to play a heel and its not worth the risk. If he turns and it bombs and you turn him back he may be ruined forever. He might not ever draw the money he's drawing now.

Cena's turn will come when there is no more money to be made, or when they start to decline enough to where a turn would maybe spark some money. Other than that it doesn't make financial sense to turn John Cena. As much as people want to see it (I have no idea why other than their tired of babyface Cena) it doesn't make you any money, after he wrestles Randy Orton then who does he face? Where are the big money match ups at? Orton is the only other guy that is close as a big of a face as him and after you run that program (the same program you just ran opposite for a year) what do you do then? There isn't a strong enough babyface out there to take up Cena's money mantle.

[ampulator]

There is a difference in taking a hit and what they would do if Cena turned heel. He is by FAR their biggest merchandise seller and he's the franchise face of the company.

The WWF has never and will never turn their biggest merch sellers heel. Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, John Cena, three generations all the same thing in common. Face of the company, top draw, merchandise monsters. None of them turned heel except Austin and he did it well after his primary running days were over with.

Who is going to replace Cena on top? Orton, Randy is not the "face of the company". He's not the kissing baby, white meat, smiling babyface they need on top with their current product and sponsors.

Would Cena turning heel make more money? Who knows, its not worth the risk. A guy like Cena comes along once in a generation why put the next five years of crazy money on hold so you can run a program with him as a heel. What happens if he can't play a heel in the current envirement. The only time he's played a heel was when he was a rapper and even that was what? A year tops that he was heel. That was seven years ago, there is no evidence John has the ability to play a heel and its not worth the risk. If he turns and it bombs and you turn him back he may be ruined forever. He might not ever draw the money he's drawing now.

Cena's turn will come when there is no more money to be made, or when they start to decline enough to where a turn would maybe spark some money. Other than that it doesn't make financial sense to turn John Cena. As much as people want to see it (I have no idea why other than their tired of babyface Cena) it doesn't make you any money, after he wrestles Randy Orton then who does he face? Where are the big money match ups at? Orton is the only other guy that is close as a big of a face as him and after you run that program (the same program you just ran opposite for a year) what do you do then? There isn't a strong enough babyface out there to take up Cena's money mantle.
I agree that they won't because of money, but the problem isn't really is alignment/disposition. It's his gimmick/character. If he's overdue for a alignment/disposition change, he's definitely even more overdue for a gimmick/character change.

Any comparisons to Austin or the Rock isn't really there. Comparison's to Hogan? Yes. Absolutely yes. Comparisons to the Rock or Austin, as he currently is? Heck no.

But they won't. And that's where it will stand.

[Moe Hunter]

A couple of quick comments on the latest discussions:

1. As for trending topics on Twitter, #RandyOrton seems to pop up quite often, especially after he hit the AiRKO on Bourne a couple of months back.

2. The "News" of a potential big star turn leading through WM is about the most vague thing anyone could possibly post as an article. Gee, I wonder if maybe they'll put a title on the line at some stage too?


But what I really want to talk about... Penn & Teller! They managed to still be good on Muppets Tonight, hopefully Raw won't tone them down too much!

[Prophet]

I worship at the altar that is Penn & Teller. Those two make anything great. I watched Shaq Vs. to see them. lol I even picked up Showtime to watch their critically acclaimed Bull ... hockey! Great show, by the by.

I kind of hope they're given some time to do stuff, while still being themselves. Even if it's "simple" tricks, they do it with such flair, it'll probably be better than the rest of the show. lol

[SaySo]

If Cena doesn't turn heel, then the next possible individual is Triple H. Triple H hasn't been heel since 2005, early 2006. If it is a big name, then it's obviously him due to the duration as face.

[SaySo]

- 6-foot-9 Diva Aloisia announced today that she was released from WWE and will be looking for independent bookings shortly.

[Hyde Hill]

That won't be for long if true. And why do most get fired if they do pictures or have done them and others do not? Maryse and Kim (Topless).

According to PWInsider.com, Lindsay Hayward, the 6-9, 240-pound woman given the name Aloisia for the third season of NXT, was actually dropped from the program due to erotic photos WWE officials uncovered of the giant grappler shortly after her television premiere last Tuesday.

The reported reason of Hayward being pulled from the program due to being deemed 'not ready' is said to be a cover excuse.

A set of photographs labeled "Tall Amazons Erotica" depict Hayward in a manner unbecoming to World Wrestling Entertainment's family friendly product. A number of the shots feature Aloisia positioned erotically, including nude. There are also images of the she-giant engaging pleasantries with a petite blonde woman.

The storyline reason given for Hayward's hastily dismissal from NXT was that Aloisia had been fired by her Pro, Vickie Guerrero, after an argument over her influence. Guerrero will reveal her new Rookie Diva during tonight's season 3 premiere.

Hayward currently remains under contract to WWE


That won't be for long if true. And why do most get fired if they do pictures or have done them and others do not? Maryse and Kim (Topless).

called it hehe.

[ewanite]

Apparently the difference is that Aloisia was an escort.

[ampulator]

That's damning. I'm not even sure WWE wants to go there.

[MightyDavidson]

That's damning. I'm not even sure WWE wants to go there.

But WWE has gone there in the past haven't they? Hasn't at least one Diva, Ashely Mazzaro I belive her name is, been a call girl in the past? I'm sure several of Godfather's hos back in the day were hired from there in the past as well.

As for the pictures, Gail Kim posed topless before she came to the WWE so I don't really see why this is an issue. Is there some new policy in the WWE against girls trying to be gainfully employed before they enter the orginisation? Or is it a rule that's always been in effect but only applied to women standing 6'8" tall or higher?

[sabataged]

But WWE has gone there in the past haven't they? Hasn't at least one Diva, Ashely Mazzaro I belive her name is, been a call girl in the past? I'm sure several of Godfather's hos back in the day were hired from there in the past as well.

As for the pictures, Gail Kim posed topless before she came to the WWE so I don't really see why this is an issue. Is there some new policy in the WWE against girls trying to be gainfully employed before they enter the orginisation? Or is it a rule that's always been in effect but only applied to women standing 6'8" tall or higher?


I imagine it is that she has lied. Odds are Gail was upfront about her pictures

[SaySo]

There has to be something more which imo should be employer/employee confidential. But since this is the WWE, let's gossip.

I'm assuming it has to be something she answered along the hiring process which contrary evidence found her not to be forthcoming.

She probably Rafael Palmerio something which isn't in the interest of her employer.

[MightyDavidson]

I imagine it is that she has lied. Odds are Gail was upfront about her pictures

Still seems rather scummy to me, given how many times WWE has asked it's Divas to pose for Playboy and all. I can't help but thinking that if she was the typical brainless blond bimbo WWE usually hires that this would not have been an issue.

A snarky attitude sure but this REALLY annoys me.

[Stennick]

Still seems rather scummy to me, given how many times WWE has asked it's Divas to pose for Playboy and all. I can't help but thinking that if she was the typical brainless blond bimbo WWE usually hires that this would not have been an issue.

A snarky attitude sure but this REALLY annoys me.

You really don't have any idea why she was let go. You don't know if she lied about it, you don't know if she reacted badly to someone when confronted about it, you have no idea why she was fired and are only assuming that she was let go just because she had some compromising pictures out there. You assume that if this was some blonde she would be let go (although Tiffany got arrested and was sent home so "diva's" don't get a pass, Mickie James, Serena, etc.).

Be annoyed if you want but understand you're being annoyed about something that at the very best you're jumping to conclusions about and at the very worst completely wrong about.

The WWE is no longer posing in playboy and have toned things down considerably for their divas since the days of Sable having a painted bikini on television and The Kat's topless adventure in 99.

Just like with everything else concerning the WWE you can't let what the standard and expectations of ten years ago cloud the standards and expectations of today. Nobody knows what happened but to blindly side with this girl just because "THA W W E IZ EVIL" is pretty silly and thats the way a lot of opinions come across on here. To hear some people talk they don't do anything right, their horribly unsuccessful and nobody is watching them anymore. All wild assumptions that have no numbers or sources to back them up only some random internet fan's wild perception because it seems like the in thing to do.

[ampulator]

But WWE has gone there in the past haven't they? Hasn't at least one Diva, Ashely Mazzaro I belive her name is, been a call girl in the past? I'm sure several of Godfather's hos back in the day were hired from there in the past as well.

As for the pictures, Gail Kim posed topless before she came to the WWE so I don't really see why this is an issue. Is there some new policy in the WWE against girls trying to be gainfully employed before they enter the orginisation? Or is it a rule that's always been in effect but only applied to women standing 6'8" tall or higher?
The problem is, the WWE didn't know about it. If you tell them beforehand, or they knew beforehand, that's their fault, not her's.

But if she didn't tell them about it, guess what? It's her fault. It's kind of like lying or not telling you were convict before. Anything that can realistically affect your employer must be told.

[crownsy]

Still seems rather scummy to me, given how many times WWE has asked it's Divas to pose for Playboy and all. I can't help but thinking that if she was the typical brainless blond bimbo WWE usually hires that this would not have been an issue.

A snarky attitude sure but this REALLY annoys me.

What diva has been asked to pose for playboy or has been allowed to in the PG era?

also, it's an issue because, unfortunately for her, no one cares about her in the WWE's causal fan base, and thus it's no risk to cut her.

For a huge portion of the WWE audience, she's already forgotten, and they don't care...if they even noticed vickie's promo at all, and remember her from it.

So why not cut her, from a business standpoint? she's a huge potential black eye (if she really was an escort, as some of the sites are reporting) for no Q rating and honestly, little potential with how the WWE markets the diva division (read: hot and athletic > actual skill/ gimmick).

Thats why they don't care about marlyse's shots, it's not worth it to cut her, she's as valuable to them as Diva's get right now.

plus as far as I know the "worst" she's done is topless shots that are pretty artsy, as nudes go.

Is it a double standard? you bet.

Do the new hires/rookies get screwed until they show they have value to the company? Yep, thats the way the business works.

And not just wrestling, Established stars get preferential status in all entertainment ventures.


EDIT: also as hyde said, she lied about it. Not telling your employer something that YOU know is out thier and would affect their business practices is grounds for dismissal anywhere, once your found out. given what WWE is trying to portray at the current time, topless shots that include you getting "friendly" with another girl and possible past work as an escort certainly qualifies as "information you should probably let us know about"

Lying by omission is still lying.

[PeterHilton]

But WWE has gone there in the past haven't they? Hasn't at least one Diva, Ashely Mazzaro I belive her name is, been a call girl in the past? I'm sure several of Godfather's hos back in the day were hired from there in the past as well.

As for the pictures, Gail Kim posed topless before she came to the WWE so I don't really see why this is an issue. Is there some new policy in the WWE against girls trying to be gainfully employed before they enter the orginisation? Or is it a rule that's always been in effect but only applied to women standing 6'8" tall or higher?

WTF??? Are you serious???

First off, the stuff about Massaro being a call girl came after she'd been released.

Secondly...IF Aloisia was an escort,how do you defend them keeping her? She was a high priced hooker, so now the WWE is supposed to trot her out in front of it's TV audience and just say "oh well she was just keeping herself gainfully employed" (which btw, is the single most laughable euphemism I've ever heard for 'being a hooker')? Really? REALLY??

I swear, some people are willing to slam the WWE no matter what they do, even in an obvious situation like this.

Topless pics? Then I can see the complaint. But if this girl was an escort...there's not a chance in hell that keeping her is the right move.

[crownsy]

WTF??? Are you serious???

First off, the stuff about Massaro being a call girl came after she'd been released.

Secondly...IF Aloisia was an escort,how do you defend them keeping her? She was a high priced hooker, so now the WWE is supposed to trot her out in front of it's TV audience and just say "oh well she was just keeping herself gainfully employed" (which btw, is the single most laughable euphemism I've ever heard for 'being a hooker')? Really? REALLY??

I swear, some people are willing to slam the WWE no matter what they do, even in an obvious situation like this.

Topless pics? Then I can see the complaint. But if this girl was an escort...there's not a chance in hell that keeping her is the right move.

Yea, thats pretty much my take, that it's a borderline trolling attempt.

Also, people need to stop bringing things up from the attitude era and pretending their onto a double standard.

Business's change direction all the time, and change thier hiring and firing practices, even morso in the entertainment/sports arena.

15 years ago, what would become the UFC allowed sumo wrestlers to fight lightweights and ring girls to pretty much strip at cageside.

Now they want to be seen as more professional and not a blood sport, so the code of conduct for employees has changed, do you think if, for instance, one of the ring girls was found to be an escort Dana should keep her because 10-15 years ago they were hiring strippers?

or should he keep a guy who ignores the drug testing policy because 12-15 years ago no one cared?

Companies change, corporate culture changes and employees need to change with them or find a new job.

[MightyDavidson]

WTF??? Are you serious???

First off, the stuff about Massaro being a call girl came after she'd been released.

Secondly...IF Aloisia was an escort,how do you defend them keeping her? She was a high priced hooker, so now the WWE is supposed to trot her out in front of it's TV audience and just say "oh well she was just keeping herself gainfully employed" (which btw, is the single most laughable euphemism I've ever heard for 'being a hooker')? Really? REALLY??

I swear, some people are willing to slam the WWE no matter what they do, even in an obvious situation like this.

Topless pics? Then I can see the complaint. But if this girl was an escort...there's not a chance in hell that keeping her is the right move.

If she's not an escort now, then it should not be an issue. Of course there's no evidence yet that she ever was an escort so they're basically canning her because she MIGHT have been, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Anyway at the moment all we know for sure is that she took some risque pictures and, having seen those pictures, they were a lot less risque then what you'd see in Playboy.

[MightyDavidson]

Yea, thats pretty much my take, that it's a borderline trolling attempt.

Also, people need to stop bringing things up from the attitude era and pretending their onto a double standard.

Business's change direction all the time, and change thier hiring and firing practices, even morso in the entertainment/sports arena.

15 years ago, what would become the UFC allowed sumo wrestlers to fight lightweights and ring girls to pretty much strip at cageside.

Now they want to be seen as more professional and not a blood sport, so the code of conduct for employees has changed, do you think if, for instance, one of the ring girls was found to be an escort Dana should keep her because 10-15 years ago they were hiring strippers?

or should he keep a guy who ignores the drug testing policy because 12-15 years ago no one cared?

Companies change, corporate culture changes and employees need to change with them or find a new job.

No it's not a trolling attempt it's my actual opinion on the matter, but hey go on beliving whatever you like.

[PeterHilton]

If she's not an escort now, then it should not be an issue. Of course there's no evidence yet that she ever was an escort so they're basically canning her because she MIGHT have been, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Anyway at the moment all we know for sure is that she took some risque pictures and, having seen those pictures, they were a lot less risque then what you'd see in Playboy.

I'll concede that the escort thing is a rumor

But if she was, ever, then you're being ridiculous if you think it should not be an issue. Maybe if she worked in the office, making copies.

But if she was an escort and that's an established fact, then it would be asinine to expect a publicly traded entertainment company - marketed specifically as family friendly- to keep a confirmed prostitute as part of it's on-air talent.

It's a really really dumb suggestion.

[Fantabulous]

It didn't help that she kept giving interviews to various sites talking about what went down rather than just shutting up and maybe letting things blow over. Although one of the interviews does reveal that on the Talent Information Form she said she hadn't posed nude which she technically didn't, but after looking at the photos one wonders if she didn't bring up them up herself and when they surfaced it was considered she hadn't been open about them and it was the deciding factor in letting her go.

[crownsy]

If she's not an escort now, then it should not be an issue. Of course there's no evidence yet that she ever was an escort so they're basically canning her because she MIGHT have been, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Anyway at the moment all we know for sure is that she took some risque pictures and, having seen those pictures, they were a lot less risque then what you'd see in Playboy.

Which again, is immaterial. She took nude shots, which, given the PG era of the WWE, most likely broke their code of conduct.

I get that you don't like the policy, but guess what? that's business in the real world. If you do something against your companies policies, and (reportedly) don't tell them about it, then your at the mercy of being fired.

and what are you on about that it "doesn't matter" if she was a escort in the past. of course it does, it affects her marketability and puts a huge risk on the WWE that there are video's/pics/other shady things related to her time as a sex worker out thier to be found.

She was a no impact talent who exposed them to huge risk. She was fired. End of story.


I get that your not a fan of the E man, but this is how buisness works in the real world, reputation, image, and past acts matter to employers.

A quick story, since I doubt she cares since you guys won't figure out who she is: A friend of mine here at law school lost her paid internship over the summer because a friend of her's tagged a photo on facebook of her roasting a bowl in college.

By you rules, that shouldn't matter, it was over two years ago, and it didn't impact the fact that she was well liked around the office nor the work she did. and she is one of the brightest people i know. She was terminated within a week, although she "resigned" because they liked her and didn't want to end her internship by firing her.

The moral is, it matters in business. I know we all expect the world to be fair, but it isn't. what you did in your past counts, so of course, if there are rumors of her being an escort, the WWE is going to err on the side of caution and cut a employee who most people didn't know.

[crownsy]

No it's not a trolling attempt it's my actual opinion on the matter, but hey go on beliving whatever you like.

Will do, you go ahead and keep not addressing any issues brought up in the posts you quote and harping on the fact that in the attitude era diva's did playboy and it doesn't matter if she's a former prostitute , and well call it square ;)

[mike b]

A few years ago Silvester Stallone had a personnel trainer who they found out had done some hard core porno,they let him go. It was bad for Stallone's image so they said(hes no angel in past himself).

Now same thing with the WWE,They are entertainment and geared now for family the last thing you want to see is a headline on one of those tabloid papers WWE HIRES HOOKERS.

[crownsy]

It didn't help that she kept giving interviews to various sites talking about what went down rather than just shutting up and maybe letting things blow over. Although one of the interviews does reveal that on the Talent Information Form she said she hadn't posed nude which she technically didn't, but after looking at the photos one wonders if she didn't bring up them up herself and when they surfaced it was considered she hadn't been open about them and it was the deciding factor in letting her go.

Ya fanta, it thats true added to the fact that she's not an established talent, i think thats probably what lead them to err on the side of caution and just release her.

Which sucks, but thats business :(

[mike b]

Hey i just heard a comment Batista is going into MMA and has signed a contract with Strike Force:eek:

Sorry did not mean to change topic:o

[SaySo]

To the tune of Mark Henry entrance music: "Batista gonna get his thang kicked." "his opponents are not going to need duct tape to make Batista quit." "There's a good chance Batista submits."

[Fantabulous]

Batista has been 'rumoured' to have signed for Strikeforce a number of times in recent months. I seriously doubt it'll happen because he has too much to lose when he makes his almost certain return to WWE.

[Stennick]

What does he have to lose? Strikeforce's fan base is minute compared to the UFC's and so what if he loses two or three fights in a row? It won't effect anything to do with his wrestling career.

[PeterHilton]

What does he have to lose? Strikeforce's fan base is minute compared to the UFC's and so what if he loses two or three fights in a row? It won't effect anything to do with his wrestling career.

Nonetheless, I hope he gets hi ass handed to him.Repeatedly. :D

[Fantabulous]

What does he have to lose? Strikeforce's fan base is minute compared to the UFC's and so what if he loses two or three fights in a row? It won't effect anything to do with his wrestling career.
When Batista got manhandled by Booker T in their skirmish a few years ago, it took Vince a long time to get behind Batista again and give him a serious push, because Vince had lost faith in him over getting beaten up. If Batista gets his ass handed to him for real in front of an audience, who knows how long it would take Vince to let that go and get behind him again. And regardless of how small Strikeforce's fan base might be, if Batstia loses an MMA fight, it'll be big news on places like TMZ or whatever, and then everyone will know.

[PeterHilton]

I think it had more to do with his numerous injuries and the fact he instigated the fight, but you make a good point: if Batista flames out in his MMA career, it will be a big story.

[ampulator]

Chances are, he will. At least Lashley was or had been a real athlete. Batista is merely a bodybuilder. He's not athletic. If a guy like Jame Toney (who admittedly was one-dimensional by MMA standards), a real boxer, can get owned in MMA, Batista is likely to get owned too, unless they scrape the bottom of the barrel to give crappy fighters. Even then, he's not likely to have good chance. He has no formal combat sport experience, especially where it matters (grappling). Any MMA with a smart gameplan will know to take him down.

[Hyde Hill]

But WWE has gone there in the past haven't they? Hasn't at least one Diva, Ashely Mazzaro I belive her name is, been a call girl in the past? I'm sure several of Godfather's hos back in the day were hired from there in the past as well.

As for the pictures, Gail Kim posed topless before she came to the WWE so I don't really see why this is an issue. Is there some new policy in the WWE against girls trying to be gainfully employed before they enter the orginisation? Or is it a rule that's always been in effect but only applied to women standing 6'8" tall or higher?

I think Kim's pictures where in between her employment with the E and it had them overlooking it also had something to do with stealing the no1 babyface female of the competition. For the rest all the girls of the E who have posed in playboy at the E's request where eventually fired and some of them quit quickly after. Latest one was a girl ring announcer being fired when it was found out she was topless in a film pre WWE. Anyway they do have a double standard imho.

If it was about being upfront about stuff like that then maybe they do not have a double standard but I do not have the feeling that is the case here. Still it's all speculation.

Aloise next Knock Out! She can't be worse then Von Erich lol.

[Hyde Hill]

Yea, thats pretty much my take, that it's a borderline trolling attempt.

Also, people need to stop bringing things up from the attitude era and pretending their onto a double standard.

Business's change direction all the time, and change thier hiring and firing practices, even morso in the entertainment/sports arena.

15 years ago, what would become the UFC allowed sumo wrestlers to fight lightweights and ring girls to pretty much strip at cageside.

Now they want to be seen as more professional and not a blood sport, so the code of conduct for employees has changed, do you think if, for instance, one of the ring girls was found to be an escort Dana should keep her because 10-15 years ago they were hiring strippers?

or should he keep a guy who ignores the drug testing policy because 12-15 years ago no one cared?

Companies change, corporate culture changes and employees need to change with them or find a new job.

Maryse did full nudity shot and Kim topless shots so they do still maintain a double standard. Micky has done some raunchy stuff and they kept her on during the PG era, Kim was hired during it, Maria was kept on during the PG era and even promoted her shoot.

Specifically towards Aloisa

If she was fired because of the existence of the picture: Double standard

If she was fired because of lying about the existence of the pictures: No double standard or miscommunication but still rotten.

If she was fired because she might have been an escort: Dumb and rotten move.

If she was fired because they have proof she was an escort or/and she lied about it: rotten move by the E but understandable and forgiveable.

[SaySo]

I'm sure Maryse and Gail Kim didn't lie on their interview and came forward with their pervious work (photoshoot). They cross the t's, dot the i's, and check the t's. Take the recent examples: Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Fong reportedly garnered heat with some in the company over a topless scene she filmed for a direct-to-DVD movie called Ratko: The Dictator's Son, a National Lampoon production. She filmed the scene before being hired by WWE, but company officials were unaware she had until video stills of Fong appearing topless surfaced online earlier this year.

If you fail to inform your employers, and they uncover something that you withheld, it's going to come back and bite you. It's a part of life. Maryse and Gail Kim been featured on PG programming (not Bubba The Love Sponge radio network). While Ring announcer Savannah and Aloise future endeavored before even being noticed by the casual audience.

And if the WWE wants to find a Great Khali-diva...here's a candidate:
http://www.zooweekly.com.au/assets/ZO4709_POSTER_AMAZON_9658.jpg

Hopefully she crosses the t, dots the i, and checks the t's.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah I remembered her being fired over it, she was the announcer I meant, but didn't remember if the stress was on the existence of the footage or her lying about it.

[sabataged]

I think Kim's pictures where in between her employment with the E and it had them overlooking it also had something to do with stealing the no1 babyface female of the competition. For the rest all the girls of the E who have posed in playboy at the E's request where eventually fired and some of them quit quickly after. Latest one was a girl ring announcer being fired when it was found out she was topless in a film pre WWE. Anyway they do have a double standard imho.

If it was about being upfront about stuff like that then maybe they do not have a double standard but I do not have the feeling that is the case here. Still it's all speculation.

Aloise next Knock Out! She can't be worse then Von Erich lol.


You're so TNA biased it pains me to read most of your popsts

[Hyde Hill]

You're so TNA biased it pains me to read most of your popsts

Lol it was a joke! But yeah I am a fan of TNA but calling me biased is going overboard imho. Problem with writing sometimes I mean stuff more as a joke or sarcastic and it's hard to make clear.

Plus didn't I just bash Lacey Von Erich in that same post? I was trying to parody the 411 comment section on TNA in part.

[ampulator]

Maryse did full nudity shot and Kim topless shots so they do still maintain a double standard. Micky has done some raunchy stuff and they kept her on during the PG era, Kim was hired during it, Maria was kept on during the PG era and even promoted her shoot.

Specifically towards Aloisa

If she was fired because of the existence of the picture: Double standard

If she was fired because of lying about the existence of the pictures: No double standard or miscommunication but still rotten.

If she was fired because she might have been an escort: Dumb and rotten move.

If she was fired because they have proof she was an escort or/and she lied about it: rotten move by the E but understandable and forgiveable.
This is where I disagree. I may find faults with the WWE, but they are not rotten for letting her go if she did something that could potentially affect the company without telling them about it, even if it was work beforehand.

Again, as a related example, if you were convict before, even for something not work related, you have to tell them. Anything you do or have done that can potentially affect them needs to be told.

[Stennick]

How is it rotten if she was an escort and they released her? I disagree, flat out if she lied about the pictures I would fire her too. If she was an escort I'd fire her too. You can't just lie to your employer or so something like be a hooker and then expect all to be forgiven especially as an entry level employee.

[ampulator]

How is it rotten if she was an escort and they released her? I disagree, flat out if she lied about the pictures I would fire her too. If she was an escort I'd fire her too. You can't just lie to your employer or so something like be a hooker and then expect all to be forgiven especially as an entry level employee.
We may disagree on many things, but we will agree here.

I actually don't care about her being the escort, or the pictures. It's the fact that either lied (possible) and omitted it (likely). Being escort on top of lying about or omitting it makes it that much critical.

[mike b]

Her is a interview i found on you tube with Batista.He talks about his training for MMA and strike force.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQgrH72VEIc

more
http://www.cagepotato.com/report-batista-signs-strikeforce-opponent-and-date-debut-set-be-announced

[crownsy]

Maryse did full nudity shot and Kim topless shots so they do still maintain a double standard. Micky has done some raunchy stuff and they kept her on during the PG era, Kim was hired during it, Maria was kept on during the PG era and even promoted her shoot.

Specifically towards Aloisa

If she was fired because of the existence of the picture: Double standard

If she was fired because of lying about the existence of the pictures: No double standard or miscommunication but still rotten.

If she was fired because she might have been an escort: Dumb and rotten move.

If she was fired because they have proof she was an escort or/and she lied about it: rotten move by the E but understandable and forgiveable.

I've mentioned in three posts now that i agree that theres a double standard and it sucks, so thats really not something i'm arguing...not sure why you lead off with that.

i guess i'm just not as fired up about it as some.

To me, it's no surprise that an unknown talent who doesn't fit the WWE Diva look (I.e Hot/athletic > skilled/muscular) didn't get as much leeway as two workers who are over (and in marlyse's case pretty much as over as you can get with the E's limited focus on it's Diva's)

I just don't think that's any reason to pretend that the E is the only buisness venture that has double standards and it's evil.

Business isn't fair, you don't think a VP of a major company who gets caught doing something inappropriate and aganst company policy wouldn't get more leeway that a kid who had been hired 6 months previous?

Is it fair? no

Is it buisness? yep

Is it something i'm going to go on a moral crusade against the E' for? nope, i'll stick to their crummier business practices like treating thier talent as independent contractors to deny them comprehensive health care, the joke of a wellness policy, ect.

[Hyde Hill]

We may disagree on many things, but we will agree here.

I actually don't care about her being the escort, or the pictures. It's the fact that either lied (possible) and omitted it (likely). Being escort on top of lying about or omitting it makes it that much critical.

Same here, sorry if that wasn't clear was trying to be quick. Crownsy wasn't aimed at you but more to clear something up. Ah well who cares she's gone and the E does (possibly) employ a double standard. And yeah their "health" system is a joke. Not so much on paper but the pervasive culture in the E. Still not going to argue this as it is endless and we don't have all the info.

[Stennick]

We may disagree on many things, but we will agree here.

I actually don't care about her being the escort, or the pictures. It's the fact that either lied (possible) and omitted it (likely). Being escort on top of lying about or omitting it makes it that much critical.

World beware Ampulator and Stennick agree on something. :p

[PeterHilton]

Same here, sorry if that wasn't clear was trying to be quick. Crownsy wasn't aimed at you but more to clear something up. Ah well who cares she's gone and the E does (possibly) employ a double standard. And yeah their "health" system is a joke. Not so much on paper but the pervasive culture in the E. Still not going to argue this as it is endless and we don't have all the info.

As opposed to that all encompassing health system TNA has, right? :)

[Hyde Hill]

As opposed to that all encompassing health system TNA has, right? :)

TNA HAS THE BEST HEALTH SYSTEM IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Hyde Hill]

Now that is me being biased hehe.

But not going to argue about their relative merits and attitudes as towards worker health as I did that somewhere else and it tired me out and irritated the hell out of me.

Plus we are talking about the E here not in comparison or TNA on it's own.

[Moe Hunter]

I worship at the altar that is Penn & Teller. Those two make anything great. I watched Shaq Vs. to see them. lol I even picked up Showtime to watch their critically acclaimed Bull ... hockey! Great show, by the by.

I kind of hope they're given some time to do stuff, while still being themselves. Even if it's "simple" tricks, they do it with such flair, it'll probably be better than the rest of the show. lol

Absolutely. I watched Shaq Vs on Youtube since I couldn't find it any other way, and I've got the whole series of Bull's *clap* hit (as they used to say on the radio show). Just phenominal. Also, if you haven't seen The Aristocrats yet, check it out - it's a doco that Penn directed along with Paul Provenza about the world's oldest/dirtiest joke, featuring over 100 comedians and their take on it. Gilbert Gottfried is king!

[Prophet]

Absolutely. I watched Shaq Vs on Youtube since I couldn't find it any other way, and I've got the whole series of Bull's *clap* hit (as they used to say on the radio show). Just phenominal. Also, if you haven't seen The Aristocrats yet, check it out - it's a doco that Penn directed along with Paul Provenza about the world's oldest/dirtiest joke, featuring over 100 comedians and their take on it. Gilbert Gottfried is king!

I've heard about it, but yet to see it. I need to find that. Just went to look it up, I didn't realize the vast amount of talent that had been resourced for that film. Definitely need to find it now.

If I'm not mistaken, Paul Provenza also hosts The Green Room, which is just a half hour show of comics shooting the breeze. There's an episode with Penn which is hilarious. It's him, Tommy Smothers, and Martin Mull I believe. If you can find that, I think you'll enjoy it.

And not to derail this too far ... short pants Zack Ryder, legitimate title contender, or conformed cry for help? Discuss. :p

[Stennick]

Paul London is concerned for Matt Hardy's health (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjWbw3G9coI&feature=player_embedded/)

[Moe Hunter]

I've heard about it, but yet to see it. I need to find that. Just went to look it up, I didn't realize the vast amount of talent that had been resourced for that film. Definitely need to find it now.

If I'm not mistaken, Paul Provenza also hosts The Green Room, which is just a half hour show of comics shooting the breeze. There's an episode with Penn which is hilarious. It's him, Tommy Smothers, and Martin Mull I believe. If you can find that, I think you'll enjoy it.

And not to derail this too far ... short pants Zack Ryder, legitimate title contender, or conformed cry for help? Discuss. :p

I'll have to check out The Green Room, that combo alone sounds fantastic.

I think Zack Ryder tweeted in lament about the costume change. It would be nice to see him thrown in to a Midcard title mix, but I don't know if short pants is his ticket.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Matt Hardy is strongly hinting on Twitter that he's headed to TNA Wrestling. A fan asked him if there was any chance he'd team up again with his brother Jeff to re-form The Hardy Boyz. Matt replied:

"A 100% chance :) And I can't wait.."

Another fan also tweeted the following to Hardy:

matt comon man you got a losing streak ur not the matt I watch a long time ago. He received the following reply from Hardy:

"You're right-plan on changing that. It's time for me to go somewhere that'll I'll be given a fair chance-that's all I want."

Bah.

[MichiganHero]

Bah.

I'm sure I read the quoted part on another forum. Do you post on the WrestlingFigs board?

[Tha Black Phenom]

No, it's a piece of news. It's posted everywhere.

[MichiganHero]

No, it's a piece of news. It's posted everywhere.

Ah, makes sense. I need to sleep :o

[Jaysin]

-- Inaugural and reigning Wrestlicious Champion Glory (a/k/a Christie Ricci) posted the following message on her Facebook account after watching prospective WWE Diva AJ's match on Tuesday's episode of NXT: "I just saw a match on NXT. Obviously these girls are not trained! This girl, "AJ" went from a total dead sell to getting up, flipping her hair and beating the crap out of a dude! BRILLIANT! I have a good idea, WWE! Why don't you get Orton to sh*t in a bag, then through it in the ring... at least that would be interesting and more realistic. And just think.. next year this girl will be PWI's top wrestler!!!"


Hahahahahahaha

[shamelessposer]

-- Inaugural and reigning Wrestlicious Champion Glory (a/k/a Christie Ricci) posted the following message on her Facebook account after watching prospective WWE Diva AJ's match on Tuesday's episode of NXT: "I just saw a match on NXT. Obviously these girls are not trained! This girl, "AJ" went from a total dead sell to getting up, flipping her hair and beating the crap out of a dude! BRILLIANT! I have a good idea, WWE! Why don't you get Orton to sh*t in a bag, then through it in the ring... at least that would be interesting and more realistic. And just think.. next year this girl will be PWI's top wrestler!!!"


Hahahahahahaha

It's funny because it's accurate. Except for that part about Orton's crap in a bag. I feel that it relies too much on rest holds.

[SaySo]

Christine Ricci - "went from a total dead sell to getting up,"

I saw Jeff Hardy on iMPACT do the same thing w/Kurt Angle and Jeff has no problem pushing merchandise. And it was 5 minutes or more into their match on iMPACT. AJ Lee match only lasted two minutes lol. Hardy been in the business for 10+ years. Main evented pay per views and an upcoming TNA one. Then there is Kendrick who had no problem with his match with a seven foot giant Matt Morgan. It took Kendrick only two minutes to chop down the enforcer of Fourtune. Like Tommy Dreamer said, the next goofy kid will be the next Matt Morgan, aka Eli Cottonwood "moustache."

When will Ricci fight on television next? I bet the company she works for is getting offers from TV networks because they are awesome in the ring. So awesome that millions are watching them at home. Ricci probably makes more money than those NXT divas with all their ticket sales. Or that's her imagination. Reality check.

[Hyde Hill]

PWInsider reported the following

A user on Twitter asked Matt Hardy the following:



@MATTHARDYBRAND What r the chances 2 c u @ WWE Europe tour in November? Or would it be better 2 buy tics 4 TNA in Berlin in January?


Hardy replied:


I'd go with Berlin..


This is Matt Hardy so take it for what you will, but it certainly is an interesting response.

from PWI copied from TNAsylum, so sue me for reading a rumour site it's the only rumour site I read and I treat them as such.

Lolz on the Ricci comment love it.

[SaySo]

WWE held Elijah Burke in the dog house for like a year or so and squandered one of my WWECDub faves of 2007.

They should do the same with Matt so he can get back in shape by the time he debuts with TNA, once his contract expired. Plus he can hang out on Twitter. Not sure how long till his contract expired. But i'm sure he can wait like the time he's waiting for that tummy to shrink.

[SaySo]

Source: Another poster out in the IWC who failed to post any sources. These are two separate articles.

After some issues that happened over the weekend, WWE has banned the drug Carisprodol (better known as somas) as part of a new amendment to the Wellness Policy. WWE Superstars can no longer use somas even if they have a prescription from a doctor. There have been a few changes made to the drug policy that have not been added to WWE's website yet.

Somas have been a major party drug in pro wrestling for decades. They're mainly used to relax muscles, but have resulted in several embarrassing incidents with wrestlers passing out in public after taking too many. Wrestler Louie Spicolli died in 1998 after overdosing on somas & wine.

This is likely the most significant change to the Wellness policy since its inception, as it will have the biggest effect on a segment of the WWE roster. It's said to be a VERY popular drug with WWE talents.

=====

WWE will soon be announcing what we noted yesterday about the usage of somas being banned in the Wellness Policy. Meprobamate (Miltown & Meprospan) are also now banned even with a doctor’s prescription.

WWE will also be officially announcing that any talent who is arrested, convicted or admits to a violation of the law regarding drug possession, purchasing, selling or distribution will be subject to immediate termination from the company. If not immediate termination, it could be treated as a strike against them (if you do something illegal, could be fired or given a strike).

[Melanieshaman]

OK, i tried to read through responses to what I asked, and have a couple of things to add.

As far as Miz and Morrison being "youngsters" maybe but not fresh faces, Miz has no talent, and the only reason he's there is his TV stint, and he worked out (i guess), and his gimmick/personality is grating and doesn't make me hate him (as a heel), but as a hack, and Morrison has been around forever, and I still don't get it.

I do think Jericho is gonna take time off, he did have a new album come out a while back (probably longer than i think), and will probably do some festivals with Fozzy.

I honestly don't thik Orton would be so "over" is wwe didnt tell the fans be like him. Sadly, i think wwe just pushes who they think will be over til people actually like them (can you say Cena?)

The nexus guys just seem really boring and plain, maybe i need to tune in more, but I don't see a lot of charisma in any of them. Maybe once Nexus breaks up we can see how each individual develops.

I'm sure i forgot something...

[SaySo]

I honestly don't thik Orton would be so "over" is wwe didnt tell the fans be like him. Sadly, i think wwe just pushes who they think will be over til people actually like them (can you say Cena?)

Did You Know, Ted DiBiase Jr was suppose to have a face turn late last year due to his movie "Marine 2" release. However plans changed. There was no wellness policy violation for Ted. There was Orton calling Kofi stupid stupid stupid before WrestleMania. Yet fans reacted to Orton like a face (despite showing his heel mannerism). If fans cheer him, they book him to pin his Legacy rejects (yep, they are rejects cause Orton kicked them out), and have book him like a face ever since. It's called Reaction (not TNA post-game show). And don't bring up Cena boo chants because merchandise sales of his are fine. For example, WWE revenue $230 million jumped to $500+ million in 2008 (after Benoit murder, wellness policy scandals). If Cena, the face of the WWE is soo bad, $230 million would turn to $50 million versus $500 million.

However, Did You Know, Orton started getting fans to react positively for him.

Even if you watch Cody and Dibiase single matches back in the Fall, they had nice face pops against Orton (which points out his effectiveness as a heel, casual fans cheer the good guys to beat up the bad ones).

Plans changed. While being personally at WrestleMania, Orton received a nice face pop. I didn't see any applause signs Melanieshaman. Unless of course we imagine it.

[Prophet]

I'll have to check out The Green Room, that combo alone sounds fantastic.

I think Zack Ryder tweeted in lament about the costume change. It would be nice to see him thrown in to a Midcard title mix, but I don't know if short pants is his ticket.

Was a great show. There's like 6 episodes, of which I caught 4, I think. One had Drew Carrey which I missed, and that irks me a little. And one had Jonathan Winters, who is still sharp after all these years. But the Penn Jillette one was the best, if only because the trio took the time to tell a single joke a piece, all of which were hilarious.

I just worry that the conformity is the final deathnail. Since the change, there's less woo-woo's, and I don't feel I know it as much. And it saddens me some.

[SaySo]

Hardy tweets:

Wow, my Twitter's goin crazy, just had over 1000 mentions! At the gym doin an hour of cardio, tryin 2 get in ROH shape. Got a ? for u guys.

[MrOnu]

Matt Hardy is an internet diva. And an idiot either for saying truthfully all this crap over the years, either for playing people. There I said it, now I feel better.

Anyway, I'm amazed that people still pay attention to all the crap Matt Hardy writes on the internet. I might be horribly mistaken, but he doesn't have a very good track record on that matter, no ?

[jwt13]

Quick thing to think about how much longer do you think VKM will run WWE and what will happen when he leaves will WWE Crash and Burn will it be the same? Who will take over

[Melanieshaman]

Did You Know, Ted DiBiase Jr was suppose to have a face turn late last year due to his movie "Marine 2" release. However plans changed. There was no wellness policy violation for Ted. There was Orton calling Kofi stupid stupid stupid before WrestleMania. Yet fans reacted to Orton like a face (despite showing his heel mannerism). If fans cheer him, they book him to pin his Legacy rejects (yep, they are rejects cause Orton kicked them out), and have book him like a face ever since. It's called Reaction (not TNA post-game show). And don't bring up Cena boo chants because merchandise sales of his are fine. For example, WWE revenue $230 million jumped to $500+ million in 2008 (after Benoit murder, wellness policy scandals). If Cena, the face of the WWE is soo bad, $230 million would turn to $50 million versus $500 million.

However, Did You Know, Orton started getting fans to react positively for him.

Even if you watch Cody and Dibiase single matches back in the Fall, they had nice face pops against Orton (which points out his effectiveness as a heel, casual fans cheer the good guys to beat up the bad ones).

Plans changed. While being personally at WrestleMania, Orton received a nice face pop. I didn't see any applause signs Melanieshaman. Unless of course we imagine it.


That's what I mean, they worked him over so much, that by the time he was getting face pops wwe was shoving him down everyone's throats.. but hey i dont watch it much so i may be just guessing :P

[FlameSnoopy]

OK, i tried to read through responses to what I asked, and have a couple of things to add.

As far as Miz and Morrison being "youngsters" maybe but not fresh faces, Miz has no talent, and the only reason he's there is his TV stint, and he worked out (i guess), and his gimmick/personality is grating and doesn't make me hate him (as a heel), but as a hack, and Morrison has been around forever, and I still don't get it.

I do think Jericho is gonna take time off, he did have a new album come out a while back (probably longer than i think), and will probably do some festivals with Fozzy.

I honestly don't thik Orton would be so "over" is wwe didnt tell the fans be like him. Sadly, i think wwe just pushes who they think will be over til people actually like them (can you say Cena?)

The nexus guys just seem really boring and plain, maybe i need to tune in more, but I don't see a lot of charisma in any of them. Maybe once Nexus breaks up we can see how each individual develops.

I'm sure i forgot something...

This post is full of flaws. The Miz has talent. A lot of talent. He is a man who you just can't hate, because he is such a good heel. He is far from WOTY material, but he can brawl, has tremendous entertaiment skills, and as I said, he is a natural heel.

Second of all, I don't get what you wrote about Orton. Its all confusing. Third of all, you're dead wrong if you say "I don't see charisma in any of them". They do have charisma, but one thing I agree with you; they'll probably have more chances to shine when they'll eventually break out of NXUS.

[ampulator]

This post is full of flaws. The Miz has talent. A lot of talent. He is a man who you just can't hate, because he is such a good heel. He is far from WOTY material, but he can brawl, has tremendous entertaiment skills, and as I said, he is a natural heel.

Second of all, I don't get what you wrote about Orton. Its all confusing. Third of all, you're dead wrong if you say "I don't see charisma in any of them". They do have charisma, but one thing I agree with you; they'll probably have more chances to shine when they'll eventually break out of NXUS.
I wouldn't say Miz has talent, but rather, he worked very, very, very hard to get to where he is. And it's paid off. He's now a pretty solid performer (though he can't REALLY brawl, all that well, not that even matters). He's a great entertainer, though.

[Melanieshaman]

This post is full of flaws. The Miz has talent. A lot of talent. He is a man who you just can't hate, because he is such a good heel. He is far from WOTY material, but he can brawl, has tremendous entertaiment skills, and as I said, he is a natural heel.

Second of all, I don't get what you wrote about Orton. Its all confusing. Third of all, you're dead wrong if you say "I don't see charisma in any of them". They do have charisma, but one thing I agree with you; they'll probably have more chances to shine when they'll eventually break out of NXUS.

You say flaws i say opinions; "I calls em likes I sees em"

Now, I love a good heel, you know one that as soon as they come on screen you cringe and say "I hate that guy" (Kurt Henning was a good example of this to me), but Miz? I just say "That guy is still working?" He has no presence about him. As I also stated in my initial post I don't watch wwe on a regular basis so maybe he does have some talent but his mic skills are gawd awful!
What don't you get about what I said about Orton. I don't see his talent mic or in ring... as with Cena (although cena has mic skills), Orton is so big because of his lineage and wwe loves their 2nd and 3rd gen wrasslers. I have only seen nexus do run ins so i could be wrong there, i think it's a mistake to have all your newbies in a "stable" together, give em a change to shine without all the support, either they will excel or fall on their faces (if the later is the case, they weren't ready for the big time.

[Hyde Hill]

This post is full of flaws. The Miz has talent. A lot of talent. He is a man who you just can't hate, because he is such a good heel. He is far from WOTY material, but he can brawl, has tremendous entertaiment skills, and as I said, he is a natural heel.

Second of all, I don't get what you wrote about Orton. Its all confusing. Third of all, you're dead wrong if you say "I don't see charisma in any of them". They do have charisma, but one thing I agree with you; they'll probably have more chances to shine when they'll eventually break out of NXUS.

Miz is pretty good on the Mic and average in the ring. But I saw him in the beginning and see him now I don't see a major improvement he has just gotten more accepted and got a better catch phrase and style.

Orton still bores the hell out of me but he does hold his own as a main eventer. It's more for lack of better talent or willing to push other talent to me though.

Barrett has some charisma at at least midcard level. Gabriel maybe midcard level. The rest no.

[SaySo]

You say flaws i say opinions; "I calls em likes I sees em"

Now, I love a good heel, you know one that as soon as they come on screen you cringe and say "I hate that guy" (Kurt Henning was a good example of this to me), but Miz? I just say "That guy is still working?" He has no presence about him. As I also stated in my initial post I don't watch wwe on a regular basis so maybe he does have some talent but his mic skills are gawd awful!
What don't you get about what I said about Orton. I don't see his talent mic or in ring... as with Cena (although cena has mic skills), Orton is so big because of his lineage and wwe loves their 2nd and 3rd gen wrasslers. I have only seen nexus do run ins so i could be wrong there, i think it's a mistake to have all your newbies in a "stable" together, give em a change to shine without all the support, either they will excel or fall on their faces (if the later is the case, they weren't ready for the big time.

Nexus was perfect. Without Nexus, you wouldn't have enough time to introduce six or seven news guy all at once.

Of course, you got dirt sheets online saying "Nexus should have won at SummerSlam" despite the WWE formula of leaving the crowd with one positive victory (Sheamus/Orton DQ, Rey Mysterio lost, therefore Cena pulled away w/the victory). Of course, you got people saying Nexus looked weak. It only took Team WWE 30+ minutes to pull a victory. Anything less than 10 minutes would equal weak on the losing party. Of course, they use the "they didn't get any legit pinfalls." They are heels, they suppose to win easily? Of course, when they beat Sheamus, Cena, and Orton through pinfall on the 900th edition of Raw, then the dirt sheets said it was "little too late." Forget patience, they should have done it three weeks earlier at SummerSlam, not only the 900th edition Raw that averaged 5 million viewers. To them, 5 million viewers "less than" 500,000 who viewed SummerSlam.

It's easy to be armchair bookers, that's the norm of the IWC. "It's my way or the highway." If you just watching to nitpick, you can say all the darnest things.

E.g. iMPACT started the show by announcing a three way match at BFG only to have a match that "there must be a winner." So the match occurred and there was no offical winner so they announced the same three way match at BFG that they did at the start of the show.

The experts wrote that, not the armchair bookers sitting at home. We may disagree on it, but what do we know. Did we generate business with our armchair booking ideas? Nope. The ones booking the WWE and TNA are experts in their profession. They make ideas, they execute it, and the majoriity of the IWC w (replace it with a b)itches about it because it's easier to be an armchair booker than a wrestling fan. It's easier in life to put your smark hat and watch. Otherwise you get the IWC, only negative, never positive... 80/20 ratio. 70/30, it's above 51% and that's fo sure.

Without the support of the WWE? The WWE made Jeff Hardy one of the top merchandise pusher based on their support. Without their support, they wouldn't generate the positive results = income. Did you know, they strive to continue to make business and will put their support at that objective. Otherwise, no support = Paul Heyman's ECW. They'll fold.

Just think opposite of what you do, and bingo...you'll be cure of armchair booking.

[SaySo]

Barrett has some charisma at at least midcard level. Gabriel maybe midcard level. The rest no.

Gabriel has a potential to be much more than midcard level. Of course he's not the greatest on the mic, but it didn't stop Jeff Hardy from rising to the top in 2008/2009. And he's a hybrid in the wrestling ring. He can do fancy moves while being equal of size to a Cena (in terms of height). I could see him going further than Wade Barrett. That's why he's the right hand man of Wade Barrett. It would be nice if they both become a tag team and challenge for the WWE tag belts while continuing to develop in-ring.

[Hyde Hill]

We shall see it's opinion. Agree with the overly negative tone and the over retro booking of the IWC but shutting up just because we don't have the power or the so called "experts" is a lame argument.

[SaySo]

Those experts only listen to results...when the money stops flowing, they will think they're doing something wrong. Otherwise, if they continue making money and keep hearing the things from the fans "your flawed, fire Russo, get rid of the Hollywood writers", they aren't going to listen as much. IWC doesn't have the power. The casuals, the millions that view iMPACT, Raw, SmackDown on TV or at arenas near you, do. They spend millions of bucks. I doubt it's in their best interest to throw away money. E.g. Raw ratings are cut in half in the last ten years but it didn't stop them from $450 million plus each the last four years. WWE made like $360 million in 1999 when their ratings were in the six.

The opinion of the casuals weigh heavily than the IWC. Casuals don't like something, they'll watch something else. IWC don't like something, they'll still watch, repeat and rinse.

[Hyde Hill]

Those experts only listen to results...when the money stops flowing, they will think they're doing something wrong. Otherwise, if they continue making money and keep hearing the things from the fans "your flawed, fire Russo, get rid of the Hollywood writers", they aren't going to listen as much. IWC doesn't have the power. The casuals, the millions that view iMPACT, Raw, SmackDown on TV or at arenas near you, do. They spend millions of bucks. I doubt it's in their best interest to throw away money. E.g. Raw ratings are cut in half in the last ten years but it didn't stop them from $450 million plus each the last four years. WWE made like $360 million in 1999 when their ratings were in the six.

The opinion of the casuals weigh heavily than the IWC. Casuals don't like something, they'll watch something else. IWC don't like something, they'll still watch, repeat and rinse.

Mainly due to better and wider distribution and lowering overhead.

But yeah the marks are what matter but that is the good thing about this board as most people here look at stuff from a marks perspective and a business perspective and make clear when it is personal perspective.

A large or at least loudest part unfortunately of the IWC believes their own hype and their own memes.

But this is getting way off topic and I have had this discussion too much.

Still = Not being in the business does not mean having a valid opinion.

[ewanite]

A six then is roughly the same as a 3 today. Remember the definition of a Nielson rating.

[PeterHilton]

I honestly don't thik Orton would be so "over" is wwe didnt tell the fans be like him. Sadly, i think wwe just pushes who they think will be over til people actually like them (can you say Cena?)

This is an asinine statement, doesn't reflect at all how things happened or how Cena got over, and pretty much guarantees that I'll dismiss any future posts form you as the typical internet nerd bullcrap.

So thanks for being so efficient. :)

[djthefunkchris]

This is an asinine statement, doesn't reflect at all how things happened or how Cena got over, and pretty much guarantees that I'll dismiss any future posts form you as the typical internet nerd bullcrap.

So thanks for being so efficient. :)

Took that long for you to figure it out. I posted once, was hoping to get an answer to any of my questions... Figured that would give me an idea where the shaman is coming from.

It's really easy to sit at home and say "NO, You should do Z rather then Y!"

There is a storyline involved, with alot of angles (more then I would like to see). Why can't poeple see that the whole entire goal is to get characters "Over", not the opposite. With a ton of shows, and almost always new week by week, you can't just re-write a storyline because someone is getting better heat/popularity then you expected. You go through with it as best you can, till you have an opportunity to make something new work (evolve the storylines).

Just like when playing TEW (with my favorite mod, the 70's mod), I only evolve (change) the storyline if there is an opportunity to do it that keeps the show flowing without having to re-write EVERYONE.

[Moe Hunter]

Then there is Kendrick who had no problem with his match with a seven foot giant Matt Morgan.
Matt Morgan doesn't get to be "7ft Tall". We've seen him many times standing right next to the Big Show, and he is not that tall. But I guess this is TNA, where Abyss is supposedly some giant.