The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Basmat01]

I must admit I hate the idea of the Bragging rights PPV I know its most likely only used as a promotional tool for the new WWE game but seriously wouldnt the Raw Vs Smackdown match be better use as the mainevent for the Survivor Series PPV? considering the whole event is ment to be built around these type of matches?

[Self]

If that's legit then **** Matt. Because nobody should do **** like that just to get fire. Man, Rey should be pissed as all hell.

I've seeing tons of pictures of Rey Mysterio unmasked over the years. Hell, WCW unmasked him and put him on TV every week. It's not like it's some secret that he looks like a 12 year old. A lot of kids may like him as a masked superhero, but how many of those kids are going to be watching Matt Hardy's weekly Youtube rant? Any that did have probably googled "Rey Mysterio Unmasked" long before now.

Don't get me wrong, it's not cool that Matt did that, but nothing to get worked up over.

[MichiganHero]

I must admit I hate the idea of the Bragging rights PPV I know its most likely only used as a promotional tool for the new WWE game but seriously wouldnt the Raw Vs Smackdown match be better use as the mainevent for the Survivor Series PPV? considering the whole event is ment to be built around these type of matches?

I wish Bragging Rights was done like ;

RAW's champion vs SD!'s champion

IC champion vs US champion

etc.

Not this stupid 7 vs 7, what does that prove to be honest.

[juggaloninjalee]

I wish Bragging Rights was done like ;

RAW's champion vs SD!'s champion

IC champion vs US champion

etc.

Not this stupid 7 vs 7, what does that prove to be honest.

I think Wrestlemania should always be the Champions vs Champions. That would make Wrestlemania truly the grand daddy of them all. We never see Champion vs Champion and I think we need to every year at the greatest show.

[Johnny Fenoli]

If that's legit then **** Matt. Because nobody should do **** like that just to get fire. Man, Rey should be pissed as all hell.

Its Not like he snuck into his locker room and caught him maskless... they are all eating, and Rey KNOWS he's on camera.

[matt1986]

I must admit I hate the idea of the Bragging rights PPV I know its most likely only used as a promotional tool for the new WWE game but seriously wouldnt the Raw Vs Smackdown match be better use as the mainevent for the Survivor Series PPV? considering the whole event is ment to be built around these type of matches?


Agreed... why would anyone care who wins out of Raw or Smackdown? It's not like one brand represents a face and one a heel, it's just a stupid idea! I think they need to slowly start phasing out the brand split, Smackdown seems devoid if any big stars at the moment. Would be nice for it to head back towards how it used to be, with guys appearing on both shows.

[juggaloninjalee]

This may seem off topic but would you guys consider WWE and TNA at war?

WWE could still have 2 different house show rosters.

[matt1986]

TNA seems a bit small to be at war with the WWE. I couldn't see anything that TNA does really making that much of an impact on the WWE?

[juggaloninjalee]

TNA seems a bit small to be at war with the WWE. I couldn't see anything that TNA does really making that much of an impact on the WWE?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. People always compare the 2 but there is no comparison to me.

[matt1986]

Agreed, I don't think there's any comparison really... WWE is far too big to be at war with TNA... and I can't see that changing anytime soon (if ever). I really cant see any company ever being in a position to seriously challenge the WWE, which is unfortunate because competition would surely lead to much more interesting shows!

[ampulator]

Although I agree that TNA is too small to even consider a war with the WWE (they will get crushed NOW, as it is. However, it CAN happen. Will it happen? Doubtful. Will it happen anytime soon? Probably not. But it can.

[matt1986]

Do they have the money though? And if they don't, where is the money going to come from?

[juggaloninjalee]

Although I agree that TNA is too small to even consider a war with the WWE (they will get crushed NOW, as it is. However, it CAN happen. Will it happen? Doubtful. Will it happen anytime soon? Probably not. But it can.

How can it happen? TNA has the talent. Has a tv slot on a station that is doing big things with the UFC. Would an old school Tough Enough type of s how help TNA like the Ultimate Fighter helped the UFC? You would probably have to take some people without any pro wrestling experience as the contestants. Then use guys like Kurt Angle, AJ Styles, and Al Snow to train the guys on the show.

I liked Tough Enough and see the flaws in how that show was done. I am sure a lot of wrestling fans would watch the show too. Even if they weren't TNA fans.

[matt1986]

Sure, a show like Tough enough could make a small difference (assuming they had the money, a TV slot, etc, etc to do)... but would it make them a serious threat to the WWE? No... not even close. The WWE is so far ahead in terms of everything (money, exposure, etc) that no-one has a realistic chance of catching them anytime soon, if ever!

[ampulator]

How can it happen? TNA has the talent. Has a tv slot on a station that is doing big things with the UFC. Would an old school Tough Enough type of s how help TNA like the Ultimate Fighter helped the UFC? You would probably have to take some people without any pro wrestling experience as the contestants. Then use guys like Kurt Angle, AJ Styles, and Al Snow to train the guys on the show.

I liked Tough Enough and see the flaws in how that show was done. I am sure a lot of wrestling fans would watch the show too. Even if they weren't TNA fans.
What the heck are you talking about? I'm saying it CAN, but it just might not be TNA. I never said IT WILL. Did you even read what I said?

It's entirely possible for a promotion the future to reach the WWE's level. It might or might not be TNA. (I'm leaning might not be). Will it happen? No. Can it? Certainly.

[juggaloninjalee]

What the heck are you talking about? I'm saying it CAN, but it just might not be TNA. I never said IT WILL. Did you even read what I said?

It's entirely possible for a promotion the future to reach the WWE's level. It might or might not be TNA. (I'm leaning might not be). Will it happen? No. Can it? Certainly.

My question was just how CAN it happen? I mean if we are talking about between now and the end of the Earth yeah I guess it CAN happen. I thought you meant that TNA can achieve that level of success.

I went on a rant after that about something that I think would help their exposure. I don't think TNA will ever be on the level of WWE though.

Is WWE still planning on unifying the World Titles?

[djthefunkchris]

This may seem off topic but would you guys consider WWE and TNA at war?

WWE could still have 2 different house show rosters.

No. TNA is probably watched by half of the people in WWE, if not everyone. I'm sure it's nice to see how other's do things, and they have friends over there that they probably are rooting for/talk to etc.

Yes. WWE does acknowledge them as a "The Other" promotion, and obviously don't encourage any talk about "the other" promotion.

No. WWE does not consider TNA a threat in any way, and proved how easily they can hurt them with only a few shows going head to head with them.

Yes. As we all know, people leave WWE and go straight to TNA. They don't work for "Both".

Really, it just depends on how you look at it. Are they in a WAR as in the way a war is described in TEW? Definately not... in fact in TEW terms, they probably have "good" relations... Just too many actual friends in real life, with upper management on both sides for them to have "Bad" relationships. IF TNA ever become an actual threat, and actually went head to head and beat WWE in the ratings at least one time (I mean RAW), they would probably go to war.... However, I doubt WWE would acknowledge them untill they had to (just as with WCW).

The fact that WWE doesn't ever really poach people away from TNA, or try to take away their main stars, shows that they aren't in actual war. However, TNA will and does do this with WWE talent, so TNA probably thinks of themselves as at War... Hope that helps, lol.

[ampulator]

War? WWE will destroy them with a span of months if WWE put their game on. Hell, WWE is doing well these couple of past months, and that in-itself has hurt TNA. And they aren't even in War Mode.

WWE doesn't do it because they need to avoid being labeled as a monopoly (which they are close to being), and they know, at the very least, they can't be literally the only promotion in the USA, as it would hurt the business (and already has).

How does TNA do it? Who knows? They are too interally messed right now to do anything.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Just a general wrestling question, I guess it could fit in a few other threads but here we are. Does anyone know of an anthology book or maybe even internet archive of wrestling articles from anytime over the last 20/30 years?

I'd like to hear what journalists of the time thought of the contemporary state of wrestling and who they tipped to fall and who was gonna be a big star, etc etc.

[Obviously written from a smark perspective.]

Your best bet may be Online World of Wrestling, I'd guess.

I've seeing tons of pictures of Rey Mysterio unmasked over the years. Hell, WCW unmasked him and put him on TV every week. It's not like it's some secret that he looks like a 12 year old. A lot of kids may like him as a masked superhero, but how many of those kids are going to be watching Matt Hardy's weekly Youtube rant? Any that did have probably googled "Rey Mysterio Unmasked" long before now.

Don't get me wrong, it's not cool that Matt did that, but nothing to get worked up over.

Nothing for us to get worked up over, for sure. The kids, a lot of them who are fans of Matt and Rey might check them and I guess that's what they would want to avoid. Even though he's been unmasked before and that the evidence is "out there", they just wouldn't want to make more of it.. same as if he filmed Taker going to McDonalds or something. We've seen him at his ABA self, but you know.. keeping the stigma alive.

It's not anything big, I just think lesser of Matt for having to go to those lengths to get sacked.

Agreed... why would anyone care who wins out of Raw or Smackdown? It's not like one brand represents a face and one a heel, it's just a stupid idea! I think they need to slowly start phasing out the brand split, Smackdown seems devoid if any big stars at the moment. Would be nice for it to head back towards how it used to be, with guys appearing on both shows.

May look weird to you, but to a lot of the casual fans it might be an interesting concept. Lotta fans are probably devoted to one brand or the other(because of their channel avaliability or by preference) and they'd like to see an eventual match-up to see who comes out on top. What I do think is they don't need to pull this every year, especially if it's not gonna be at Survivor Series. When the first Raw vs. SmackDown! feud happened, it had a lot of buzz, you'd think they'd wanna keep that stigma alive by making it happen every two/three years. But they milked that cow now and there's probably no turning back, unless they do things really carefully. /shrug

[djthefunkchris]

Pretty sure they do this now, to coincide with the game release (Smackdown vs. Raw) as was already said earlier. Figured there was no more explanation needed, but an interesting conversation has come from it.

Smackdown vs. Raw is NOT as big as it once was, and I blame WWE for it by having Vince show up on too many shows, or should I say, showing up at each show as the man in charge. Kind of takes away from the illusion that they are in competition instead of working together.

This of course could be brought back with his absence, and the absence of "cross" referencing worker's all the time. However, the crossing is needed for house shows at the very least, or as was explained a good while back by Vince himself, he ends up with angry customer's that wanted to see both John Cena and Undertaker. So they have to do this to some extent, ESPECIALLY at PPV's.

There are ways they could keep the illusion of "war" between the two brands, by at least having it look like an "invasion" each time someone from the other promotion comes through. Everyone should be like "What is he doing here? He's not part of this show!" This happens, but not to the extent that it could...... I know that's hard when the Tag Teams are unified and it looks like other title's might see the same thing happen.

Which bring another interesting conversation up, at least to me. I hated the idea of unifying the World Title's, and I didn't like the dropping of the Cruiserweight, the unified Diva's, or the unified Tag titles... at first.

However, now I'm thinking that they could do something with it, and surprisingly I find myself not missing the cruiserweight title at all... It's almost like they got rid of that to let TNA shine in that element, but then TNA changed/followed suit by bassically making the X-Division a very low card division... perhaps even lower then the Knockouts... I think they should be equal, and enhanced, but that's me.

Anywho, I think the idea of unifying the belts kind of achieves something like the old NWA had, but within' a promotion. As long as they don't unify the US and Intercontinental belts, they could work these as the main belts of the two shows, with the World Championship being more for the PPV's then the TV shows..> Sure, talk about it and give it the time it deserves, but keep the PPV as the World Title match's, and give everyone a bigger reason to buy the PPV. Can you imagine how big the US and Intercontinental Title's could be enhanced IF they do it this way? Same could have been done with the Tag Teams, by introducing a World belt, instead of getting rid of the US and Intercontinental ones, but ... we all know they don't like Tag Teams like they used to in the WWE.

This could have been applied for the womens' as well. IN fact, I think I'm going to do this in a game I was thinking of playing. I am playing like 10 different TEW games for some reason, and moving so slowly between them it's not funny... I think I just convinced myself to start up one more with the real world this time, lol.

[djthefunkchris]

On a seperate subject, I am listening to a Trish Stratus podcast, talking about everything... to include wrestling. http://www.diva-dirt.com/2010/09/24/exclusive-trish-stratus-speaks-on-autograph-signing-tour-retirement-of-womens-championship-more/

Anyways, she said something that I keep hearing from several people in WWE. I've heard it by Batista, Cena, Miz, and several other's I can't think of right now. Outside of the storyline part anyways (she said she has had about 100% in every storyline she was involved in.. meaning she could evolve it into her own thing). What stood out was talking about given time to do promo's every week, and Vince having the faith in her to go out there and say whatever she wanted bassically... Of course to stay in character and keeping in mind current storylines. But no script. This has been said by people I mentioned and other's.

I've been under the opinion that most everyone goes out there with a script in their head and tries to remember what they are supposed to say. Listening to these people, everyone has an idea, and is told you have two minutes here or an interview there, and you need to "do your thing". Meaning, it really is up to them to shine in these area's, and a script might only be for those that they have no faith in.

[Basmat01]

Pretty sure they do this now, to coincide with the game release (Smackdown vs. Raw) as was already said earlier. Figured there was no more explanation needed, but an interesting conversation has come from it.

Smackdown vs. Raw is NOT as big as it once was, and I blame WWE for it by having Vince show up on too many shows, or should I say, showing up at each show as the man in charge. Kind of takes away from the illusion that they are in competition instead of working together.

This of course could be brought back with his absence, and the absence of "cross" referencing worker's all the time. However, the crossing is needed for house shows at the very least, or as was explained a good while back by Vince himself, he ends up with angry customer's that wanted to see both John Cena and Undertaker. So they have to do this to some extent, ESPECIALLY at PPV's.

There are ways they could keep the illusion of "war" between the two brands, by at least having it look like an "invasion" each time someone from the other promotion comes through. Everyone should be like "What is he doing here? He's not part of this show!" This happens, but not to the extent that it could...... I know that's hard when the Tag Teams are unified and it looks like other title's might see the same thing happen.


The thing is we see multiple "Cross" brand matches every year and Half the rosters on both Raw and Smackdown have been on the "rivals" roster at one point or another so I find it hard to believe that a superstar can be loyal to a brand when he was apart of the other brand only a few months before hand

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Poor Ted, in a program with Goldust.

That Final Cut is pretty good though.

[supershot]

This quote made my night!

"If they ever break up, I'm gettin in line!"

haha Im really starting to dig Michael Cole... :eek:

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Cole is starting to pull out some quality lines.

Also I lol'd at DBs dancing.

[Astil]

Any one else catch the Lance Storm nod? "If I can be serious for a moment" :)

[djthefunkchris]

The thing is we see multiple "Cross" brand matches every year and Half the rosters on both Raw and Smackdown have been on the "rivals" roster at one point or another so I find it hard to believe that a superstar can be loyal to a brand when he was apart of the other brand only a few months before hand

That's another thing entirely, which seems to happen when people are injured, or just to enhance the other roster.

All kinds of things lead to this, but I think the main thing is that it's totally unbelievable that they are actually in any competition what-so-ever with each other. I'm sure there are those that like one over the other, and do actually see them as seperate, but... for the most part it has been ruined, and the things you pointed out doesn't help them either.

There is nothing wrong with worker's going back and forth, but they say "Trade" not sold or kicked off one to go on the other, etc. Edge was probably the closest one that looked like a GM got mad and booted him off the show, but... as was said, your going to Smackdown. Edge saying "GOOD" kind of.. ya know, spoils it. I don't think they are even really trying to keep it seperate anymore.

Fact is, I think they are unifying the belts, just to be able to focus on less belts between brands, and bring the worker's on both shows even more.

[fatallylost]

One thing I never understood... we had Bragging Rights last year. Then it was never mentioned again, really, until Smackdown's move to SyFy when the Dudebusters grabbed the trophy to move it.

Also, couldn't they have just had the main event at Survivor Series be this match anyway?

Wait.. sorry... logic. I take back my questions.

[MattitudeV2]

One thing I never understood... we had Bragging Rights last year. Then it was never mentioned again, really, until Smackdown's move to SyFy when the Dudebusters grabbed the trophy to move it.

Also, couldn't they have just had the main event at Survivor Series be this match anyway?

Wait.. sorry... logic. I take back my questions.

Yeah that would take WWE some logic to explain but this is the WWE we are talking they just setup Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler in one night...

[ampulator]

I've said this before, and I'll say this again. WWE is slowly phasing out their brand split. They have definitely done it at areas where hhey don't have a big enough roster. For example, their women's and tag divsion has been recombined.

It's doubtful if they would speed this up, (I don't htink they will), but I doubt they are merging the top two belts, at least. They get enough exposure.

[djthefunkchris]

I've said this before, and I'll say this again. WWE is slowly phasing out their brand split. They have definitely done it at areas where hhey don't have a big enough roster. For example, their women's and tag divsion has been recombined.

It's doubtful if they would speed this up, (I don't htink they will), but I doubt they are merging the top two belts, at least. They get enough exposure.

I was under the impression that those were the belts Vince is most interested in merging.

[LoNdOn]

Daniel Bryan dancing on Raw = All kinds of awesome :)

[ampulator]

I was under the impression that those were the belts Vince is most interested in merging.
Really? Why? Having two top champions is the not a bad idea. Hell, if you only have ONE top championship, it's going to squeeze the main event. There's simply a lot of top guys right now. If he merges, who's going to be the alernative to Cena, when he wins the title back?

[Wrestling Century]

Hey, did anybody else notice that "Stand Up For WWE" thing they advertised? What is that all about?

[Astil]

Hey, did anybody else notice that "Stand Up For WWE" thing they advertised? What is that all about?

Probably to help Linda in her Senate race. From what I hear around here she's lagging behind.

[PeterHilton]

Really? Why? Having two top champions is the not a bad idea. Hell, if you only have ONE top championship, it's going to squeeze the main event. There's simply a lot of top guys right now. If he merges, who's going to be the alernative to Cena, when he wins the title back?

All the net rumors are that Vince wanted a unification bout at WM. No real reason...just net rumours.

Hey, did anybody else notice that "Stand Up For WWE" thing they advertised? What is that all about?

Propoganda. Pure propoganda. It's a little disgusting to be honest. WWE mentioning it's USO dates and the stuff the do for Make-A-Wish is really fine; those are really good things they do. Even pimping out it's good deeds for marketing isn't really bad. But pounding it's chest week after week to try to debunk the stuff that Linda's senate opponents are saying about the E or the wrestling industry in general is cheap and just this side of legal.

[Candyman]

All the net rumors are that Vince wanted a unification bout at WM. No real reason...just net rumours.

You know, those rumors seemed really strange to me at the time they came out, and I still haven't seen anything to justify them. It's just sad that so many people (not saying you're one of them, I'm sure you're not) read something on a dirt sheet and take it as fact that it came straight from the WWE. Like a couple weeks ago when it was reported that they had a "huge angle" planned for Raw, and when it didn't happen, there were posts on other boards saying "what happened to the huge angle WWE promised us???"

It's possible they'll unify the titles, but it seems unlikely at best and laughable at worst. For all the talk about how the brand split is being phased out, the brands are still completely seperate entities for about 9 months out of the year - the only exceptions being the two months between the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania, the couple weeks before Bragging Rights, and every couple months when they have a special Raw or SD with both brands on.

Propoganda. Pure propoganda. It's a little disgusting to be honest. WWE mentioning it's USO dates and the stuff the do for Make-A-Wish is really fine; those are really good things they do. Even pimping out it's good deeds for marketing isn't really bad. But pounding it's chest week after week to try to debunk the stuff that Linda's senate opponents are saying about the E or the wrestling industry in general is cheap and just this side of legal.

Are you familiar with American politics? This is pretty standard stuff. Frankly, I'm shocked and more than alittle ashamed that they didn't start doing something like this months ago.

[Basmat01]

Gerwick.net
WWE Chairman and CEO Vince McMahon was supposed to appear on RAW yesterday night to promote the Stand Up for WWE campaign which was introduced yesterday on WWE.COM with a video message taped by him. His appearance was even hyped on WWE.COM but later dropped as if nothing was ever announced. The Stand Up for WWE campaign took a prominent role on WWE.COM and the company uploaded a video of its long time employees talking about working for WWE and how long they’ve been employed, meeting their future husbands and wives there etc. In a blog on CTNews.com, Linda McMahon’s campaign spokesman Ed Patru said that they have nothing to do with the campaign which started because of all the negative press the company has been getting ever since Linda entered the race for Senate. “The company didn’t consult the campaign; we didn’t ask for anything. It acted independently,” Patru said in
an e-mail. (thanks to Colin Vassallo)

[matt1986]

Really? Why? Having two top champions is the not a bad idea. Hell, if you only have ONE top championship, it's going to squeeze the main event. There's simply a lot of top guys right now. If he merges, who's going to be the alernative to Cena, when he wins the title back?

What does everyone think about removing the brand split? Good idea? Bad idea?

I persoally would love to see it, I've had enough of Raw vs Smackdown and don't buy into the "we're in competition with the other show" thinking at all.

As for the main event being squeezed with one championship... how many main eventers are there at the moment? I count:

Orton
Cena
Barret
Sheamus
Undertaker
Kane
Edge (although not really being used as one)
Miz (probably not quite there yet, but there's little doubt he will soon)

Have I missed any? I'm not sure if it would be that squeezed at the top if there was only one World Title?

[dvdWarrior]

I think it's time to bring one of the world's best kept secrets to life, and for the first time ever, reveal a truth few people ever get to know about the WWE.

Critical Information that's been hidden for years (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/fe0c630780/conspiracy-theory-with-jesse-ventura)

Click that link right there...

If you dare!!!!

Or if you just have a few minutes to spare, you know.

Whatever.

:p


Note: My apologies if that's been posted before, I just found it and thought it was amusing.

[PeterHilton]

It's possible they'll unify the titles, but it seems unlikely at best and laughable at worst. For all the talk about how the brand split is being phased out, the brands are still completely seperate entities for about 9 months out of the year - the only exceptions being the two months between the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania, the couple weeks before Bragging Rights, and every couple months when they have a special Raw or SD with both brands on.


I'm aware that it's a standard practice for a candidate to use their private sector connections to promote themselves, but this is overboard imo.

[UkWrestleFan]

What does everyone think about removing the brand split? Good idea? Bad idea?

I persoally would love to see it, I've had enough of Raw vs Smackdown and don't buy into the "we're in competition with the other show" thinking at all.

As for the main event being squeezed with one championship... how many main eventers are there at the moment? I count:

Orton
Cena
Barret
Sheamus
Undertaker
Kane
Edge (although not really being used as one)
Miz (probably not quite there yet, but there's little doubt he will soon)

Have I missed any? I'm not sure if it would be that squeezed at the top if there was only one World Title?

Triple H will need to fit in there somewhere when he returns. Then Jericho, he'll be back eventually. And Rey Mysterio, can he be considered a 'Main Eventer'?

But I agree, I'd quite like to see the brand split end and just have 1 'World' title. Some of the older guys (Taker, Kane, Triple H) could even float between the Upper Midcard & Main Event and help get some younger talent over.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

You know, those rumors seemed really strange to me at the time they came out, and I still haven't seen anything to justify them. It's just sad that so many people (not saying you're one of them, I'm sure you're not) read something on a dirt sheet and take it as fact that it came straight from the WWE. Like a couple weeks ago when it was reported that they had a "huge angle" planned for Raw, and when it didn't happen, there were posts on other boards saying "what happened to the huge angle WWE promised us???"

It's possible they'll unify the titles, but it seems unlikely at best and laughable at worst. For all the talk about how the brand split is being phased out, the brands are still completely seperate entities for about 9 months out of the year - the only exceptions being the two months between the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania, the couple weeks before Bragging Rights, and every couple months when they have a special Raw or SD with both brands on.



Are you familiar with American politics? This is pretty standard stuff. Frankly, I'm shocked and more than alittle ashamed that they didn't start doing something like this months ago.

It'll happen the tags and Divas have already been unified. I'm pretty sure that DB and Dolph started their program to unify the IC and US belts on Monday. The world title unification will happen soon. Prolly at WM or RR. Depends what route they go with the rumble winner.

[ChrisKid]

Daniel Bryan dancing on Raw = All kinds of awesome :)

This segement lifted the crowds mood
Rating: 100

[LoNdOn]

This segement lifted the crowds mood
Rating: 100

No doubt. At first, when I saw all the divas in there with him I thought something horrible was about to happen. How wrong could I get? He makes R-Truth look like an arthritic pensioner. Bryan will be champion of the world by WM28 :D.

[ChrisKid]

No doubt. At first, when I saw all the divas in there with him I thought something horrible was about to happen. How wrong could I get? He makes R-Truth look like an arthritic pensioner. Bryan will be champion of the world by WM28 :D.

awesome :p

[BHK1978]

Propoganda. Pure propoganda. It's a little disgusting to be honest. WWE mentioning it's USO dates and the stuff the do for Make-A-Wish is really fine; those are really good things they do. Even pimping out it's good deeds for marketing isn't really bad. But pounding it's chest week after week to try to debunk the stuff that Linda's senate opponents are saying about the E or the wrestling industry in general is cheap and just this side of legal.

I agree with you. The minute I heard about this I rolled my eyes. For reasons that I will put below.

Are you familiar with American politics? This is pretty standard stuff. Frankly, I'm shocked and more than alittle ashamed that they didn't start doing something like this months ago.

I'm aware that it's a standard practice for a candidate to use their private sector connections to promote themselves, but this is overboard imo.

Found this on Wrestlingzone.com:

WashingtonPost.com is reporting that Nancy DiNardo, the chairwoman of the Connecticut Democrats, has filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission on Wednesday, requesting that Lind McMahon's senate campaign be investigated for potentially coordinating with WWE on its recent "Stand Up For WWE" campaign. Both Linda's campaign manager and WWE have claimed they are acting independently and have nothing to do with one another.

They are claiming that the WWF is doing it independently. However, does anyone really believe this?

The media is not supposed to be biased towards one candidate over the other. So if they promote one candidate they must promote the other. Basically what the WWF is doing (sorry I refuse to call it WWE), is promoting Linda's campaign, indirectly. It is not outright, but it is influencing voters (viewers of WWF programs) that live in Connecticut to vote for her. Because her opponent is insulting you as fans.

[crownsy]

right, but her opponent did in fact insult the WWE.

He called it "entry level porn" at a recent debate.

I could do without the grandstanding, but i don't think the complaint has a leg to stand on. The WWE is not a media outlet, it's a entertainment program.

As long as they don't mention either campagin by name (which they didn't) or run ads (which they didn't) there fine as an enetertainment show.

Think about ti, the Daily show doesn't have to give equal time either, because it's not a media outlet.

Pretty tired of the entire impact this crap is having on the programs, but i doubt linda has much fear of sanctions.

She's going to lose, but he won't be sanctioned :D

[Slagaholic]

The media is not supposed to be biased towards one candidate over the other. So if they promote one candidate they must promote the other.

Tell that to every media outlet on the planet earth.

[Candyman]

They are claiming that the WWF is doing it independently. However, does anyone really believe this?

The media is not supposed to be biased towards one candidate over the other. So if they promote one candidate they must promote the other. Basically what the WWF is doing (sorry I refuse to call it WWE), is promoting Linda's campaign, indirectly. It is not outright, but it is influencing voters (viewers of WWF programs) that live in Connecticut to vote for her. Because her opponent is insulting you as fans.

The problem with your argument is the fact that her opponent is the one bringing up the WWE. Richard Blumenthal, and his supporters, are attacking the WWE. It'd be absolutely ridiculous for the WWE to NOT do what they did. Frankly, it's ridiculous that it's taken them this long. Ask yourself this...if the democrats weren't attacking the WWE, would they be doing this? Of course not. It's easy to laugh and say of course it's not done independently...but at the end of the day, it basically is. If there was an election that didn't involve somebody affiliated with the WWE, and one of the parties was attacking them, they'd still be doing this. And if her opponent wasn't attacking them, they wouldn't be doing this. They're doing this because they're being attacked, not because Linda is in an election.

Also, when did the WWE become media? They're entertainment. And beyond that, there was absolutely no mention of Linda or her opponent. The equal time rule doesn't come close to being applicable here. And, again, they're defending themselves, which they have every right to do. As easy as it is to say oh they're promoting Linda and this and that, there's no mention of her at all. No mention of what she's done for the company or what she'd do if elected, and there's no political attack on her opponent whatsoever. As funny as it sounds, this really is as absolutely independent and correct as you can get in this situation. Obviously some people out there are going to refuse to see it for what it really is and think it's shady, but it's actually not.

[juggaloninjalee]

This whole election and Connecticut getting a ton of attention among wrestling fans all over is kind of funny. I live in Michigan and we don't have nearly the amount of debate here about our canidates. It is amusing to me how people all over the US are commenting on this 1 states election and not their own. In fact I bet most wrestling fans of legel voting age don't even know who is running in their state.

[supershot]

In fact I bet most wrestling fans of legel voting age don't even know who is running in their state.

I'm guilty! :o

Who's running in Michigan?

[BHK1978]

I had a whole thing written about the Linda McMahon thing but I know that it very well could turn into a political debate and this is not the place for that.

I will say this, Linda was CEO of a business where drug use is rampant and many of her former employees have died at a young age. So I think her opponent is well within his right to attack her for being involved in such a shady business.

This Stand Up crap, is a direct relation to this. You say that the WWF would not be doing this if they were not being attacked. Which is true, however nobody would be attacking the WWF is she was not running for office. You cannot seperate the two.

The bottom line is the WWF has brought this on themselves. Vince was the one that wanted to push the steroid freaks. If you did not have a "look" you were not pushed.

And while there was no mention of her name in his video, it is obvious what they are trying to do. They are trying to get the wrestling fans to rally around this and the Connecticut fans to rally around her. It is like Vince is saying to the wrestling fans, "You see how lowly these big shots think of you? How dumb they think you are because you are wrestling fans. Well it is time to stand up to them and a good way of doing that is to vote for my wife."

[GruntMark]

I will say this, Linda was CEO of a business where drug use is rampant and many of her former employees have died at a young age. So I think her opponent is well within his right to attack her for being involved in such a shady business.


I tend to agree. Its not like she's been running a charitable nonprofit or some kind of start up that turns cow farts into renewable energy. If her key accolade is "former CEO" then its legit to ask what that company did and how it acted under her leadership. Attacking the WWE is fair game.

In fact, they made alot of money by being risky and pushing the boundries of taste. It would be almost hypocritical to start complaining now.

Oh. And then there are all the people who keep dying.

IMO, the whole venture was incredibly ill concieved from the start. The former CEO of the WWE, running in Connecticut as a Republican? I dont know if any Las Vegas organization actually takes bets on political contests, but if so, I would have laid some serious cash down on Blumenthal.

[matt1986]

Triple H will need to fit in there somewhere when he returns. Then Jericho, he'll be back eventually. And Rey Mysterio, can he be considered a 'Main Eventer'?

But I agree, I'd quite like to see the brand split end and just have 1 'World' title. Some of the older guys (Taker, Kane, Triple H) could even float between the Upper Midcard & Main Event and help get some younger talent over.

True, however it's unlikely that all of these guys are on shows at the one time - usually a couple of them aren't on TV at one time due to one reason or another, so the WWE doesn't necessarily need to squeeze them all in at once.

Increasing the prestige of the Intercontinental title by making it a stepping stone to the World title (and possibly held by guys further up the card) would help, then the US title (or a different one if its unifed, doesn't matter - I'm thinking something along the lines of the old European title) could be used for the mid card. I guess what I'm describing is more of a shift back to how it used to be! :p

Oh and no, I don't really consider Rey Mysterio to be a 'main eventer', but I'm sure plenty of people do...

[James Casey]

IMO, the whole venture was incredibly ill concieved from the start. The former CEO of the WWE, running in Connecticut as a Republican? I dont know if any Las Vegas organization actually takes bets on political contests, but if so, I would have laid some serious cash down on Blumenthal.

Don't see why not - there's always a book running in the UK on who the next PM will be.

However, as Brit I've been somewhat interested in following all this, and it does seem that McMahon is going down the Arnie route to electoral victory - she's famous enough to overcome the strikes against her (of which there are many, Vince's boat and Vince in general amongst them). Last time I checked she had the lead in the polls (although Nick Clegg had the lead in the polls about two weeks before the UK election, so...)

[juggaloninjalee]

I'm guilty! :o

Who's running in Michigan?

It's Bernero and Schnieder.

Bernero is the Democrat and Schnieder is the Republican.

[Astil]

Don't see why not - there's always a book running in the UK on who the next PM will be.

However, as Brit I've been somewhat interested in following all this, and it does seem that McMahon is going down the Arnie route to electoral victory - she's famous enough to overcome the strikes against her (of which there are many, Vince's boat and Vince in general amongst them). Last time I checked she had the lead in the polls (although Nick Clegg had the lead in the polls about two weeks before the UK election, so...)

Really? I live in CT and all the outlets here say Blume has the lead.

It wouldn't even be an issue if the dope didn't lie and say he went to Vietnam as a marine when he didn't. That not even a political statement, that's just a durr tell the truth moron statement.

Anyway, I'm more concerned about my local election then my state. Some woman who dumped tons of poison chemicals right next to downtown is now running to represent our town. She's even in the party I generally affiliate with, but I am so voting against her.

[juggaloninjalee]

Really? I live in CT and all the outlets here say Blume has the lead.

It wouldn't even be an issue if the dope didn't lie and say he went to Vietnam as a marine when he didn't. That not even a political statement, that's just a durr tell the truth moron statement.

Anyway, I'm more concerned about my local election then my state. Some woman who dumped tons of poison chemicals right next to downtown is now running to represent our town. She's even in the party I generally affiliate with, but I am so voting against her.

That sounds terrible. Do you live close to Enfield? I have friends there.

[Astil]

That sounds terrible. Do you live close to Enfield? I have friends there.

40 minutes away.

I live near Hartford.

[juggaloninjalee]

40 minutes away.

I live near Hartford.

Oh ok. I really like the East Coast.

So back on topic of the WWE. When are they going overseas again to do a show for the troops? Is that around July?

[PeterHilton]

I had a whole thing written about the Linda McMahon thing but I know that it very well could turn into a political debate and this is not the place for that.

I will say this, Linda was CEO of a business where drug use is rampant and many of her former employees have died at a young age. So I think her opponent is well within his right to attack her for being involved in such a shady business.

This Stand Up crap, is a direct relation to this. You say that the WWF would not be doing this if they were not being attacked. Which is true, however nobody would be attacking the WWF is she was not running for office. You cannot seperate the two.

The bottom line is the WWF has brought this on themselves. Vince was the one that wanted to push the steroid freaks. If you did not have a "look" you were not pushed.

And while there was no mention of her name in his video, it is obvious what they are trying to do. They are trying to get the wrestling fans to rally around this and the Connecticut fans to rally around her. It is like Vince is saying to the wrestling fans, "You see how lowly these big shots think of you? How dumb they think you are because you are wrestling fans. Well it is time to stand up to them and a good way of doing that is to vote for my wife."

Fantastic post. couldn't agree more.

[MrOnu]

Oh ok. I really like the East Coast.

So back on topic of the WWE. When are they going overseas again to do a show for the troops? Is that around July?

Words in the interwebs are currently telling us that the company won't do a Tribue to the Troops oversea show in a foreseable future. They might do a supershow on a domestic base though.

[juggaloninjalee]

Words in the interwebs are currently telling us that the company won't do a Tribue to the Troops oversea show in a foreseable future. They might do a supershow on a domestic base though.

That would be really cool!

[GruntMark]

Last time I checked she had the lead in the polls (although Nick Clegg had the lead in the polls about two weeks before the UK election, so...)

I always look at RealClearPolitics.com, which sorta tracks all the major polls.

She's never lead in any of theirs. Though she cut the lead down to a couple of points a few weeks ago, it looks like its opening back up again.

[lazorbeak]

The media is not supposed to be biased towards one candidate over the other. So if they promote one candidate they must promote the other. Basically what the WWF is doing (sorry I refuse to call it WWE), is promoting Linda's campaign, indirectly. It is not outright, but it is influencing voters (viewers of WWF programs) that live in Connecticut to vote for her. Because her opponent is insulting you as fans.

No, this is not true. Not even a little bit. WWE is a corporation that has a venue to say what it wants: it's not a news service and has no requirements regarding objectivity. It's not a town hall meeting, it's a TV show.

Yes, it's propaganda, but it's pretty hilarious to suggest it's illegal.

[BHK1978]

No, this is not true. Not even a little bit. WWE is a corporation that has a venue to say what it wants: it's not a news service and has no requirements regarding objectivity. It's not a town hall meeting, it's a TV show.

Yes, it's propaganda, but it's pretty hilarious to suggest it's illegal.

Well that is not me to decide. It is for the Federal Election Commission, to decide if it is illegal.

Why did they give equal time to the Presidential Candidates back in 2008? It is known that Vince is a Republican. Why did he not just allow John McCain the airtime and forget about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama?

[Gabbo]

Why did they give equal time to the Presidential Candidates back in 2008? It is known that Vince is a Republican. Why did he not just allow John McCain the airtime and forget about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama?

To get as many viewers as possible by appealing to as many voters as possible?

[crownsy]

To get as many viewers as possible by appealing to as many voters as possible?

Situation is also completely different, there they provided a direct public forum, and thus would be subject to equal time.

Here, at most they indirectly supported Linda by defending themselves from a attack by her opponent (who they didnot name)

[lazorbeak]

Well that is not me to decide. It is for the Federal Election Commission, to decide if it is illegal.

Why did they give equal time to the Presidential Candidates back in 2008? It is known that Vince is a Republican. Why did he not just allow John McCain the airtime and forget about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama?

You're giving me a headache here. Do you really not understand the difference between a well-timed piece of self-hyping propaganda and a public forum? They are not the same.

Edit: here's the 2010 campaign details: http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapHSCandDetail.do;jsessionid=55CB7E12EE549B479F69 1F7E6AF7DF6B.worker1

You may notice that the FEC doesn't care what corporations do outside of campaign contributions. Acting independently is a whole other deal. Whether you buy that it's truly independent is irrelevant.

Further, there's absolutely nothing stopping privately held corporations from endorsing candidates, in fact, a lot of corporations tend to do just that by financially backing PACs that support their politics. Unless you're saying Vince & Co. don't get First Amendment protections (that treat corporations as people) that everybody else gets? Because... he has a TV show?

[matt1986]

So does anyone here actually want to talk about wrestling? :)

[BHK1978]

So does anyone here actually want to talk about wrestling? :)

That is why I will not respond to LB because I do not want this to turn into page after page of him refuting what I say.:D

[LoNdOn]

So does anyone here actually want to talk about wrestling? :)

So.......that bloomin' John Cena huh? What's that guy's deal? :p

[SaySo]

Linda's opponent seems like a stand up guy. He tells people how he served in the Vietnam war yet his military records showed he never even step foot in Vietnam. Imagine if Bush said the same thing numerous times at veteran rallies, the media would be all over him like they were with his national guard papers in 04.

Linda's opponent seems like the perfect candidate in Washington though. He seems to fit the profile. He'll be protected by 2/3 of the media except for Fox News of course. They'll just be the opposite.

[lazorbeak]

Linda's opponent seems like a stand up guy. He tells people how he served in the Vietnam war yet his military records showed he never even step foot in Vietnam. Imagine if Bush said the same thing numerous times at veteran rallies, the media would be all over him like they were with his national guard papers in 04.

Linda's opponent seems like the perfect candidate in Washington though. He seems to fit the profile. He'll be protected by 2/3 of the media except for Fox News of course. They'll just be the opposite.

Okay this both just off-topic and incendiary. Let's not continue to make this thread about politics?

So, how about NXT? It sure is a show, by the loosest definition of the term.

[SaySo]

Apparently the Eagle mascot on SmackDown that accompanies Jack Swagger is played by Jamie Noble.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Apparently the Eagle mascot on SmackDown that accompanies Jack Swagger is played by Jamie Noble.


I'm gonna have to check that out... from my memory the swagger soaring eagle is too tall to be Jamie Knoble.


Just watched:
Nah, you're probably right, he is quite short.

[Basmat01]

Apparently the Eagle mascot on SmackDown that accompanies Jack Swagger is played by Jamie Noble.

on Gerwick.net it said its played by Chavo

[SaySo]

on Gerwick.net it said its played by Chavo

Yeah. It appears that way since Hornswoggle recently interrupted the Eagle at the last SmackDown show. And that Hornswoggle has history with the person inside the mascot.

Chavo fits the size of the mascot well.

From the article i read 4 days earlier, it had said "may be played by Jamie Noble" due to Noble being a road agent for the SmackDown brand. (dirt sheet post below)

Jack Swagger’s eagle mascot on SmackDown may be Jamie Noble. Noble still travels with the SmackDown roster as an agent.

[Candyman]

I had a whole thing written about the Linda McMahon thing but I know that it very well could turn into a political debate and this is not the place for that.

I will say this, Linda was CEO of a business where drug use is rampant and many of her former employees have died at a young age. So I think her opponent is well within his right to attack her for being involved in such a shady business.

This Stand Up crap, is a direct relation to this. You say that the WWF would not be doing this if they were not being attacked. Which is true, however nobody would be attacking the WWF is she was not running for office. You cannot seperate the two.

The bottom line is the WWF has brought this on themselves. Vince was the one that wanted to push the steroid freaks. If you did not have a "look" you were not pushed.

And while there was no mention of her name in his video, it is obvious what they are trying to do. They are trying to get the wrestling fans to rally around this and the Connecticut fans to rally around her. It is like Vince is saying to the wrestling fans, "You see how lowly these big shots think of you? How dumb they think you are because you are wrestling fans. Well it is time to stand up to them and a good way of doing that is to vote for my wife."

The flaw in this logic is the fact that WWE - regardless of what Linda does, mind you - has every right to defend themselves. And that's exactly what they're doing. Like I said, the WWE wouldn't be doing this if they weren't being attacked. Whether they'd be getting attacked if Linda wasn't running is completely irrelevant, because that's her OPPONENT making the connection between Linda and WWE, not the WWE. They're not attacking themselves.

The funny thing about your last statement there is the fact that nowhere in the entire "Stand Up" campaign does the WWE tell you to vote. I don't mean it doesn't tell you to vote for Linda, I mean it doesn't tell you to vote period. There's no mention of voting anywhere in the video or on their website. They even have a list of ten ways you can Stand Up for the WWE, and not one of those ten is voting.

You're giving me a headache here. Do you really not understand the difference between a well-timed piece of self-hyping propaganda and a public forum? They are not the same.

Edit: here's the 2010 campaign details: http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapHSCandDetail.do;jsessionid=55CB7E12EE549B479F69 1F7E6AF7DF6B.worker1

You may notice that the FEC doesn't care what corporations do outside of campaign contributions. Acting independently is a whole other deal. Whether you buy that it's truly independent is irrelevant.

Further, there's absolutely nothing stopping privately held corporations from endorsing candidates, in fact, a lot of corporations tend to do just that by financially backing PACs that support their politics. Unless you're saying Vince & Co. don't get First Amendment protections (that treat corporations as people) that everybody else gets? Because... he has a TV show?

Well said. There was absolutely nothing stopping Vince from endorsing one candidate, if he wanted to do...problem is, he didn't want to. I don't see what that has to do with the "Stand Up" thing anyway. That was direct coverage of a political race, "Stand Up" is about as far from that as you can get. Aside from saying "politicans" (without giving names) are attacking them at the very beginning of it, there's no mention whatsoever of politics anywhere in Stand Up.

It's kind of funny how flawed that argument is. Not only does the "equal time" crap not apply to Vince and WWE in the least, even if it did they would STILL not be in violation of it, because "Stand Up" is not giving time to any party or politican. They're giving time to themselve. You can say it's not truly independent or it's propoganda or whatever nonsense you can come up with, but at the end of the day there is NO MENTION of Linda, her opponent, politics in general, voting, or anything else related to that ANYWHERE. Nothing in "Stand Up" is anywhere close to outside their rights to defend themselves.

[sabataged]

So basically Undertaker called out Brock after his loss

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/video-the-undertaker-calls-lesnar-out-at-ufc-121-details-115037


And then they interviewed Dana White and the interviewer said something like WWE wants Brock to fight Taker at WrestleMania

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/video-dana-white-comments-on-undertakerlesnar-call-out-115039

[The Celt]

Daniel Bryan and Ziggler just had a incredible match that would have done the NWA proud, old school spirit with modern moves. Also Minnesota is a GREAT crowd.

[The Two]

Does anybody else think it makes entirely no sense for a PG company to have a Buried Alive Match? How do you explain that one to a 6 year old?

This is really the same problem I have with the Hell in a Cell PPV. The more HIAC matches you hold in which not one person sheds a single drop of blood, the harder it is to sell it as "Satan's Structure" and "the most dangerous, diabolical match ever invented". You don't need to have blood in every match, but you do need it in a HIAC match.

Basically, what I'm saying is this: Both the HIAC and Buried Alive stipulations are children of the Attitude Era. That's the climate in which they were created and that's where they made the most sense. Now they are anachronisms. It doesn't make sense to have them in a PG company, and (in the case of HIAC) their PG versions just weaken the credibility of the gimmick.

If you want to be PG, fine, but those Attitude Era gimmicks need to be shelved, just put them away and don't use them again until you are willing to do them properly.

Just had to get that off my chest.

[sabataged]

Does anybody else think it makes entirely no sense for a PG company to have a Buried Alive Match? How do you explain that one to a 6 year old?

This is really the same problem I have with the Hell in a Cell PPV. The more HIAC matches you hold in which not one person sheds a single drop of blood, the harder it is to sell it as "Satan's Structure" and "the most dangerous, diabolical match ever invented". You don't need to have blood in every match, but you do need it in a HIAC match.

Basically, what I'm saying is this: Both the HIAC and Buried Alive stipulations are children of the Attitude Era. That's the climate in which they were created and that's where they made the most sense. Now they are anachronisms. It doesn't make sense to have them in a PG company, and (in the case of HIAC) their PG versions just weaken the credibility of the gimmick.

If you want to be PG, fine, but those Attitude Era gimmicks need to be shelved, just put them away and don't use them again until you are willing to do them properly.

Just had to get that off my chest.


Buried Alive is very cartoony PG-ish to me. Its not a very violent style match like the original Hell in a Cell's were. I agree when it comes to HiaC

[The Celt]

Well, if you really want to break it down you might want to call into question the notion of having a fight between an undead zombie and the devil's favourite demon is really PG either? :p;):rolleyes::cool:

[MrCanada]

so far a good ppv.

Thoughts (WARNING SPOILERS! BUT YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU ARE IN A THREAD DEVOTED TO WWE TRYING TO AVOID THEM)

-- Bryan vs. Ziggler. Good match. Not perfect by any chance and easily torn apart if you want to, but I enjoyed it. Wouldnt mind seeing these two go at it more. Goes to show that near-20-minute matches work still. Maybe even on TV, take note WWE!

-- Cena & Otunga winning the gold is a cool thing. Would prefer if it had been Gabriel instead of Otunga as I simply find Otunga useless and oddly shaped. Reminds me of Geodude from Pokemon. Now what they do with Rhodes & MacIntyre is beyond me. MacIntyre is a bit of a bust so far to me. I mean Alberto Del Rio is WAY better. I'd just fire him. lol.

-- Goldust vs. Dibiase was perfectley fine. But why put THAT match on PPV? I mean, I have no issue with either of the two guys on PPV (especially Goldust, what crawled up his ass since his return to WWE and made him the most solid worker on the roster?) but why have this match that just left the feud open? Are we REALLY going to get another Goldust vs. Dibiase match on PPV? If not, then why was this one? I dont want to see an Intergender match either so... whats next? Would of been a perfect jumping point to have Dibiase fail to retain the title, have Maryse dump him, his father come out and tell him how dissapointed he is and then go from there with maybe Brett Dibiase debuting as "The Chosen Son" and regeining the Million Dollar belt then having Ted go face, possibly even teaming with Goldust against Brett Dibiase and whomever.... just a thought. lol.

- Natayla didnt win the belt. Good! I want her to win, dont get me wrong. But hear me out. Clearly they are building to a point where Natalya needs back-up, enter The Glamazon. Eventually either-or wins the Diva's belt then we can have a 5-year long Natalya vs. Beth Phoenix feud (as one would eventually turn on the other) and I can die happy.

- Kane vs. Taker up now. Agree with the above. How does a buried alive match work in PG? Its one of those things where WWE continues to tease die-hard fans with a return to glory, but it wont work out. Hopefully they end the match in an interesting way. I'm calling double burial by Bearer or something. Have a THIRD brother debut... lol. I dunno.

[The Two]

It's gonna be a long night for Taker under that hill. Don't know why you wouldn't end the show with that.

[Johnny Fenoli]

It's gonna be a long night for Taker under that hill. Don't know why you wouldn't end the show with that.

He's buried alive... I think he might be dead now... :eek:

[The Celt]

Don't ask me how, but it seems that killing the Undertaker under 3 tons of soil seems to have dampened the crowd :rolleyes:

[MrCanada]

I find a good crushing death usually only increases the amount I want to cheer.

But I think we have stumbled across a more philasophical debate.

What is more crushing to a hot crowd?

The supposed death of a Phenom, or Tyler Reks?

[The Two]

I find a good crushing death usually only increases the amount I want to cheer.

But I think we have stumbled across a more philasophical debate.

What is more crushing to a hot crowd?

The supposed death of a Phenom, or Tyler Reks?
Don't forget about Ahmed Joh... sorry, Ezekiel Jackson.

[MrCanada]

Kind of fell apart at the end of that match. Mysterio was trying a little to hard to sell the arm which kind of led to him screwing up a couple times. IT also seemed they were trying to stall for time on a fly (Jackson & Mysterio that is) and it led to some awkwardness.

I refuse to bad mouth Zeke for at least a little while longer. His greatness alongside Kendrick a while back has bought him a pass as he attempts to grow on his own. I do think he may make a better babyface then heel though. Have him go around reading Cat In The Hat and acting like a giant 5-year-old.... Hook him up with Santino or something (better then Kozlov) and you got buys from me.

If you are going to go PG, might as well get some good wrestlecrap out of it.

[MrCanada]

Prediction for the Main Event (time is 10:29).

Cena attacks Barrett. Barrett wins by DQ, no belt, but since he won, Cena isnt fired.

[Candyman]

Prediction for the Main Event (time is 10:29).

Cena attacks Barrett. Barrett wins by DQ, no belt, but since he won, Cena isnt fired.

I was thinking the same thing. Barrett said he had to win the match, not win the title.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Prediction for the Main Event (time is 10:29).

Cena attacks Barrett. Barrett wins by DQ, no belt, but since he won, Cena isnt fired.

:eek:

[Johnny Fenoli]

Bragging Rights PPV:

Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler: :D

EEEEEVERYTHING ELSE: YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWN

[Astil]

Obvious booking is obvious.

This better be going somewhere good.

[Self]

I'm making a point of not watching any WWE for a while, but based on the reviews, I'm tempted to check out these recent Daniel Bryan matches. First the Morrison/Miz three way, now apparently a great match with Dolph. Rock on, Bryan. Some folks want him pushed higher up the card, but if he can hold onto this spot, opening up PPV's with good US Title matches, that's just super. Good money in that.

[matt1986]

I'm making a point of not watching any WWE for a while, but based on the reviews, I'm tempted to check out these recent Daniel Bryan matches. First the Morrison/Miz three way, now apparently a great match with Dolph. Rock on, Bryan. Some folks want him pushed higher up the card, but if he can hold onto this spot, opening up PPV's with good US Title matches, that's just super. Good money in that.

Why are you in a WWE discussion forum then?

Bit of an obvious ending like others suggested, but I'm interested in seeing where it leads...

7 v 7 match was a little boring, I still don't see the point of having Raw v Smackdown, love that Edge won though! Still hoping for the removal of the brand split!

Nexus appearing on both shows due to being tag champions? Some kind of angle where any members of Nexus can defund the titles? Cena stripped of his half by Nexus? Thoughts everyone?

[djthefunkchris]

I'm making a point of not watching any WWE for a while, but based on the reviews, I'm tempted to check out these recent Daniel Bryan matches. First the Morrison/Miz three way, now apparently a great match with Dolph. Rock on, Bryan. Some folks want him pushed higher up the card, but if he can hold onto this spot, opening up PPV's with good US Title matches, that's just super. Good money in that.

He's the right size to stay there indefinately, and be a "gatekeeper" of sorts... you can't get "up" there till after you face this guy.... This guy's no joke.

[Self]

Why are you in a WWE discussion forum then?

Many reasons. For one, I enjoy having discussions with folks on this site, who I find more reasonable and interesting than your typical internet wrestling fan.

For two, I like to keep abreast of the goings on in the major companies, because when I hear about something that truly captures my attention, I'll start watching again.

[juggaloninjalee]

Cena cost Barrett the title but made sure he won by dq?

[The Celt]

Barrett's stipulation was that Cena should make sure that he won the match, he never mentioned anything about the WWE title. Ergo, Cena is a genius and Barrett, Orton and the entire Nexus are idiots. YAY!

[crownsy]

Cena cost Barrett the title but made sure he won by dq?

aye, as others have said, this angle better be leading somewhere soon. right now it truly is the most obvious "face on the inside!" angle ever.

The minute barrett said "I win or your fired" everyone in the arena knew the finish.

Rest of the PPV was meh. Kinda interested in seeing what they do with the tag titles (will cena "turn" otunga against wade? this seems most obvious.) and the Ziggler-DB match was awesome.

7 v 7 match felt so anti climatic after big show stupidly got counted out. P.S Punk getting chants and doing the most selling along with Miz to lose to the "we never put anyone over team" of edge and rey. Kinda boring.

[20LEgend]

Just watched Taker Kane anyone think WM27 could be Taker vs Barrett?

[LoNdOn]

Just watched Taker Kane anyone think WM27 could be Taker vs Barrett?

I fast forwarded the Kane/Taker match. I just don't care about it at all. It's painfully dull to watch. The Nexus getting involved was a bit interesting though.

[20LEgend]

I fast forwarded the Kane/Taker match. I just don't care about it at all. It's painfully dull to watch. The Nexus getting involved was a bit interesting though.

I skipped through it until they got to the burying part

[LoNdOn]

I skipped through it until they got to the burying part

Exactly what I did.

[juggaloninjalee]

Barrett over Taker at Wrestlemania could be great! Or losing this year only to win the following month.

[matt1986]

Maybe some kind of "Paul Bearer paid the Nexus for their services" angle, where he pays them off to make sure Kane wins?

[Prophet]

Barrett's stipulation was that Cena should make sure that he won the match, he never mentioned anything about the WWE title. Ergo, Cena is a genius and Barrett, Orton and the entire Nexus are idiots. YAY!

Ahh yes, but a diabolical genius! He fulfilled his end of the bargain, and did it dastardly.

Which means by December, we'll see Cena in a leather chair, petting a black cat with a black glove, and talking in a low, creepy British accent. "No Mr. Orton, I expect you to di ... oh, PG ... I expect you to lose. Muahahahahaha!"

[SaySo]

Match of the Night last night:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r223/oppe27/ZigglerDragon.jpg

[LoganRodzen]

Match of the Night last night:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r223/oppe27/ZigglerDragon.jpg

Just started the PPV as I type this and this match just finished. I thought it was pretty good and the crowd is VERY into Danielson. The reaction he got after winning sort of surprised me. :o Not going to read any more of this thread until I finish the show, ha.

[Linsolv]

Wow. I have been real lazy about watching RAW lately, so if Bryan's been putting on matches like that for the whole time, then I apologize for missing them, but DANG. I'm sold. Ziggler/Bryan was an incredible match, and now I like both of them more because of it.

[SaySo]

Daniel Bryan is now 4-0 in WWE pay per views (w at Summerslam, w at Night of Champions, w at Hell in a Cell, and w at Bragging Rights).

However, he hasn't had that same kind of luck on Raw.

Maybe they could hype Daniel Bryan has a 4 win PPV streak.

[SaySo]

FW4Online is reporting that The Undertaker is injured with a torn rotator cuff which is due to be operated on soon. The original plans for last nights WWE Bragging Rights PPV scheduled Taker to win the World Heavyweight Championship, but due to the injury plans were changed and Kane retained with the help of Nexus who were used to protect Taker's image as he had already lost to Kane on two straight pay-per-views.

[The Celt]

Man that injury was poorly timed.

[LoNdOn]

Man that injury was poorly timed.

most are.

[LoNdOn]

Just watching NXT and I have now seen the worst professional wrestling match of my life. Maxine against Kaitlyn, sweet cream on an ice-cream sandwich that was awful. I honest to god think I could do a better job than they did.

[MrOnu]

There are severall possibilities for the Cena/Nexus angle. Right wow, with Cena and Otunga as tag champs, they could use the freebird rule just to piss Cena off or they could use it to fuel a rebellion from the inside with Otunga based on the hints we had in the last few weeks. They played the clarity of the orders card last night, so now they still can make Cena bend the rules to a maximum and eventually force to do heel things. We all know it's going to end as the self-destruction of the group, it's just a matter of how and when... and if Cena fully turns heel in the process.

Having said this, I think they had the wrong main event last night. Orton/Barrett was a pain to watch and the crowd mostly sat on their hands. The Elimination match would have been a better choice as it's always better to end the night on high note of celebration. Sidenote : we all know Danielson can go, but I was really impress by the wrestling level Ziggler can showcase.

[Hyde Hill]

most are.

I should think he was being sarcastic. As it is quite customary one should think that after a buried alive match one would be off screen for a while. Unless you where being sarcastic as well then my apologies.

[SaySo]

Just watching NXT and I have now seen the worst professional wrestling match of my life. Maxine against Kaitlyn, sweet cream on an ice-cream sandwich that was awful. I honest to god think I could do a better job than they did.

Kaitlyn had less than six weeks of training. I think she signed in July 2010 and assigned to NXT in September 2010. So it was expected that she isn't very good at all. Especially when they put her with another inexperience worker.

I think she'll be a perfect valet for Dolph Ziggler and hopefully years of training would erase memories like the one you witnessed on NXT recently.

[crownsy]

I've seen the "I didn't know dolph could put on a match like this"
Sediment all over the web today, don't know where that's coming from

Dolph is a fantastic in ring talent and has been putting on great stuff for two years straight. Makes me wonder if he is dismissed due to the spurt squad stink on him

Glad he's getting his props either way. I'm an unAbashed ziggler mark

[Jaysin]

I've seen the "I didn't know dolph could put on a match like this"
Sediment all over the web today, don't know where that's coming from

Dolph is a fantastic in ring talent and has been putting on great stuff for two years straight. Makes me wonder if he is dismissed due to the spurt squad stink on him

Glad he's getting his props either way. I'm an unAbashed ziggler mark

I've been a fan of his since "Hi, I'm Dolph Ziggler" and I became a super fan when he kicked Boretista skull into next week.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

So Otunga is turning. Cena tears down the Nexus from the inside. So disappointed how this program turned out.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Please let "really?" be the new "what?"

[tad091]

Please let "really?" be the new "what?"

I've already caught myself saying it irl.

Didn't see the PPV yesterday, but I heard Byran vs. Ziggler was pretty good. Only thing is that I really came into wrestling when Spirit Squad was stilll around, I think, so I can never believe that Dolph would rise above those horrid, horrid times. :D

[supershot]

Green Bay does NOT like the "Anonymous General Manager". Before the show went live they brought it out and the boos where NUTS!

Oh and the best sign ever...

Favre
KO

:D

[Candyman]

I should think he was being sarcastic. As it is quite customary one should think that after a buried alive match one would be off screen for a while. Unless you where being sarcastic as well then my apologies.

You missed something. Undertaker was supposedly going to WIN the match, but that plan was scrapped due to his injury. So the injury is, indeed, very poorly timed.

Also, I didn't see this mentioned in the report quoted, but other sites are saying they're not sure if Undertaker will even be available to wrestle at Wrestlemania due to this injury. At this point, you really have to start wondering if we've seen the last of the Undertaker.

So Otunga is turning. Cena tears down the Nexus from the inside. So disappointed how this program turned out.

Lol, shouldn't you make sure you're actually right before you determine how you feel about how you think the program will end?

[Stennick]

You missed something. Undertaker was supposedly going to WIN the match, but that plan was scrapped due to his injury. So the injury is, indeed, very poorly timed.

Also, I didn't see this mentioned in the report quoted, but other sites are saying they're not sure if Undertaker will even be available to wrestle at Wrestlemania due to this injury. At this point, you really have to start wondering if we've seen the last of the Undertaker.

Lol, shouldn't you make sure you're actually right before you determine how you feel about how you think the program will end?

You really believe this is the last of the Undertaker? Even if he takes Wrestlemania off this year, there is no way he's letting being buried alive be his final match ever.

I love how in one thread we have him facing Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania and in this one we're wondering if we've seen the last of him.

I'm starting to wonder which has the greater odds he fights Lesnar at WM 27 or we have seen the last of him?

[alden]

I see taker getting a flair "retirement" type of deal. There is no way the biggest star in wrestling is going to go out like this. Yes i think he is bigger then hogan, flair, hhh and hbk. He has atleast one more mania in him. I relly can't wait till he retires and becomes an agent or something and we get to see him in backstage roles or running to the ring to break up fights like anderson does.

[supershot]

I'm starting to wonder which has the greater odds he fights Lesnar at WM 27 or we have seen the last of him?


Lesnar at WM 27 > we have seen the last of him

[Stennick]

I see taker getting a flair "retirement" type of deal. There is no way the biggest star in wrestling is going to go out like this. Yes i think he is bigger then hogan, flair, hhh and hbk. He has atleast one more mania in him. I relly can't wait till he retires and becomes an agent or something and we get to see him in backstage roles or running to the ring to break up fights like anderson does.


You think he's a bigger star or you like him more? There is a vast difference between the two. I'm not sure you could even make a credible argument for Taker being a "bigger" star than Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, etc. Consistant, loyal, etc but not "bigger".

To each their own though I actually liked Big Evil Taker more than this Taker.

[alden]

You think he's a bigger star or you like him more? There is a vast difference between the two. I'm not sure you could even make a credible argument for Taker being a "bigger" star than Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, etc. Consistant, loyal, etc but not "bigger".

To each their own though I actually liked Big Evil Taker more than this Taker.

I guess i am counting the years he has been one top. austin and rock had what 5 or 6 years as "top draws" taker has been hot since 96ish. fourteen years on top is huge. The point can be said that flair was a big name for a long while also but it was a diffrent time * i know that should not matter* hogan ok maybe taker is not bigger then hogan.

[Stennick]

He's a very big deal and he's done a lot of things that nobody else has done. No doubt about that and you're a fan of the guy clearly so hey no argument out of me. Its just I can't call him the BIGGEST name ever.

Consistent, loyal, accomplished, talented, instantly recognizable to fans and non fans alike, etc.

[alden]

lol is my taker markness showing that much?

[Stennick]

When you called him the biggest star in wrestling ever and that he was bigger than Flair and Hogan I sorta caught on that you might kinda like the guy :D

[crownsy]

I've already caught myself saying it irl.

I really came into wrestling when Spirit Squad was stilll around, I think, so I can never believe that Dolph would rise above those horrid, horrid times. :D

Ah-HA! Jay and I's theory is confirmed :D

people need to let that go and get on the dolph bandwagon. I've been keeping a seat warm since Rey refused to drop the IC title to him a year and a half ago :)

[djthefunkchris]

Ah-HA! Jay and I's theory is confirmed :D

people need to let that go and get on the dolph bandwagon. I've been keeping a seat warm since Rey refused to drop the IC title to him a year and a half ago :)

I can't let that go. The thing is, he is still a whiney cheerleader, still.... It's the character he is always going to be it seems..

Although I will say, I couldn't get behind Orton and some of the other's before for similar reasons, and somehow they figured it out and finally acted like adults rather then whiney girls.

[crownsy]

I can't let that go. The thing is, he is still a whiney cheerleader, still.... It's the character he is always going to be it seems..

Although I will say, I couldn't get behind Orton and some of the other's before for similar reasons, and somehow they figured it out and finally acted like adults rather then whiney girls.

I guess, though i fail to see how his current gimmick is "whiney cheerleader"

If anything, it's the classic "****y young prospect" gimmick with a metro Twist due to all the mr. perfect like preening he does.

He's a heel, he's going to cheat and hide behind authority (vickie). other than them both being heels, i don't really see alot of similarities between Spirt squad dolph and ziggler.

Certainly not in work rate, his only problem is he's on smackdown and he's faced all the good athletic guys he can have a matchup with. We've seen dolph vs rey, and dolph vs kofi....I'm not a very big edge fan and edge is too over for the IC belt.

MVP-ziggler has been meh, not a big fan of MVP. kaval is to green to go for the IC belt, but that could be good given time. Would have loved to see dolph vs Christan but injury took that away from us...

Del Rio would be good, but he's a heel so that's out...Just not seeing alot of new fueds for ziggler over on smackdown. Too bad bryan's on raw, that would be a great fued. these las two matches have the "great chemistry" note from TEW stamped all over them

[critical-23]

I guess, though i fail to see how his current gimmick is "whiney cheerleader"

If anything, it's the classic "****y young prospect" gimmick with a metro Twist due to all the mr. perfect like preening he does.

He's a heel, he's going to cheat and hide behind authority (vickie). other than them both being heels, i don't really see alot of similarities between Spirt squad dolph and ziggler.

Certainly not in work rate, his only problem is he's on smackdown and he's faced all the good athletic guys he can have a matchup with. We've seen dolph vs rey, and dolph vs kofi....I'm not a very big edge fan and edge is too over for the IC belt.

MVP-ziggler has been meh, not a big fan of MVP. kaval is to green to go for the IC belt, but that could be good given time. Would have loved to see dolph vs Christan but injury took that away from us...

Del Rio would be good, but he's a heel so that's out...Just not seeing alot of new fueds for ziggler over on smackdown. Too bad bryan's on raw, that would be a great fued. these las two matches have the "great chemistry" note from TEW stamped all over them

Took the words right from my mouth.

[djthefunkchris]

I guess, though i fail to see how his current gimmick is "whiney cheerleader"

If anything, it's the classic "****y young prospect" gimmick with a metro Twist due to all the mr. perfect like preening he does.

He's a heel, he's going to cheat and hide behind authority (vickie). other than them both being heels, i don't really see alot of similarities between Spirt squad dolph and ziggler.

Certainly not in work rate, his only problem is he's on smackdown and he's faced all the good athletic guys he can have a matchup with. We've seen dolph vs rey, and dolph vs kofi....I'm not a very big edge fan and edge is too over for the IC belt.

He's whiney, not ****y. He's young but no Mr. Perfect to him at all.

I liked the match last night. There's no denying that, I'm not talking about in ring, I'm talking about character. He sounds and acts like a whiney brat, not a man at all. In other words, three minutes against Dolph from anyone in the Main Event, is two minutes too long to be believable... they should crush the little whiney boy.

Now, if I don't look at his character at all, I can see alot of potential, and maybe one day he can live up to it. Just not the way he is presented today... he will stay midcard or lower forever.

[Self]

kaval is to green to go for the IC belt

Is this serious? Kaval is "too green"? The dude's been around for years. I reckon he could have some great matches with Dolph over that strap.

[djthefunkchris]

Is this serious? Kaval is "too green"? The dude's been around for years. I reckon he could have some great matches with Dolph over that strap.

Think what is moreso implied is that he's too green on the show... Meaning the overall WWE Universe doesn't know him yet. Daniel had to go through some things before they really got to know him, and he was talked about almost non-stop, by a heel Cole.

Kaval is fine, and should succeed fine. However, I don't think the goal is to make him a huge star, as much as just to have him fill in voids at this time.

[crownsy]

Is this serious? Kaval is "too green"? The dude's been around for years. I reckon he could have some great matches with Dolph over that strap.

i understand that self, but for the majority of the WWE universe kaval is that dude who won NXT a few weeks ago.

I meant green in the sense that he hasen't built up any momentum or impact with the crowd yet.

DJ: yes, exactly :D i missed your much better explination by hitting qoute before reading the rest of the thread :D

[Slim Jim]

When you called him the biggest star in wrestling ever and that he was bigger than Flair and Hogan I sorta caught on that you might kinda like the guy :D

I think "internally" he could well be the biggest star, if that makes sense. As in, to professional wrestlers, Taker is THE guy to work with, learn from, generally be around. The ultimate locker room leader, I suppose.

[MrOnu]

I watch Smackdown once per month, if at all, of course I would not know Dolph Ziggler can go in the ring.

Let me be the first one to tell ya that the Undertaker will rise from its grave as the American Badass once again ! :D

[shawn michaels 82]

these las two matches have the "great chemistry" note from TEW stamped all over them

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Adam said a lot of times now that the chemistry note is along the lines of "Can't put out these kind of performances with anyone else" rather then "they work very well together"? And beeing Ziegler a talented guy,then the chemistry note thing wouldn't apply, cause he will be capable of putting on good matches with other guys.

[Stennick]

The chemistry definition is two guys that work better together than they do apart or vice versa.

Some real world examples. Bret Hart and Mr. Perfect are two of the best wrestlers on the planet but its widely thought that their matches together at Summerslam and KOTR are below what their skill sets are. So you could call that neg chemistry. Two amazingly talented guys that don't work better together than apart.

The definition is that they put on better matches together than they do seperatley. We have seen Dolph put on great matches with Rey and others. Danielson puts together great matches with everyone. You can't give the "great chemistry" note for Danielson/Ziggler just because they put on a good match. Just like you can't give it to Flair/Steamboat. When you have two very talented guys putting on a great match thats just good pro wrestling.

Nothing erks me more about TEW than people wanting to give a chemistry note to everyone on the roster just because they work well together. Its supposed to be for two guys that have better matches together than they do apart and since thats not the case here its not great chemistry its just good wrestling. I'll stop ranting now but you are correct SM82 that this wouldn't be good chem.

[masterded]

I can't wait for the Punk Danielson feud they started setting up to start.

[shawn michaels 82]

The chemistry definition is two guys that work better together than they do apart or vice versa.

Some real world examples. Bret Hart and Mr. Perfect are two of the best wrestlers on the planet but its widely thought that their matches together at Summerslam and KOTR are below what their skill sets are. So you could call that neg chemistry. Two amazingly talented guys that don't work better together than apart.

The definition is that they put on better matches together than they do seperatley. We have seen Dolph put on great matches with Rey and others. Danielson puts together great matches with everyone. You can't give the "great chemistry" note for Danielson/Ziggler just because they put on a good match. Just like you can't give it to Flair/Steamboat. When you have two very talented guys putting on a great match thats just good pro wrestling.

Nothing erks me more about TEW than people wanting to give a chemistry note to everyone on the roster just because they work well together. Its supposed to be for two guys that have better matches together than they do apart and since thats not the case here its not great chemistry its just good wrestling. I'll stop ranting now but you are correct SM82 that this wouldn't be good chem.

Thanks stennick. You explained the whole chemistry thing perfectly, and that was what i was trying to say.

[Self]

Watched the two Danielson/Ziggler matches. I preferred the one on the PPV, but both fun times. I wouldn't say they had great chemistry, but they clearly looked like two stellar performers, giving their all, and having time to do something meaningful. If Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk is on the cards, I'll be sure to check it out.

Also, it's impossible to be 'too green' (in any definition of the term) for the Intercontinental Title. Didn't Santino win it on his first night? ;) This isn't exactly the World Cup we're talking about. It's a practically meaningless midcard belt.

[Jaysin]

Just read about the Barrett/Orton stip for Survivor Series. It's actually interesting...

[shawn michaels 82]

Watched the two Danielson/Ziggler matches. I preferred the one on the PPV, but both fun times. I wouldn't say they had great chemistry, but they clearly looked like two stellar performers, giving their all, and having time to do something meaningful. If Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk is on the cards, I'll be sure to check it out.

Also, it's impossible to be 'too green' (in any definition of the term) for the Intercontinental Title. Didn't Santino win it on his first night? ;) This isn't exactly the World Cup we're talking about. It's a practically meaningless midcard belt.

He did indeed, but that's different. It was a part of his storyline, so to say. If they were to handle the IC title to anyone just like that then it would become even less important then it already is.

[The Final Countdown]

Some real world examples. Bret Hart and Mr. Perfect are two of the best wrestlers on the planet but its widely thought that their matches together at Summerslam and KOTR are below what their skill sets are. So you could call that neg chemistry. Two amazingly talented guys that don't work better together than apart.
That's widely thought? I would never have expected; I thought their Summerslam match was fantastic. Especially with Perfect's back apparently causing him excruciating pain.

[Comradebot]

He did indeed, but that's different. It was a part of his storyline, so to say. If they were to handle the IC title to anyone just like that then it would become even less important then it already is.

I blame the brand split on the fall of the IC title. Back before it, I LOVED to watch the ongoing battles for it between the likes of guys like Ken Shamrock, Goldust, Val Venis, ect...

But with the talent spread out, less talented and popular guys, including folks who in the olden days would've been involved in the European title picture, are competiting for it. I like the WWE's current apparent direction towards the removal of the brand split. It was a neat idea at first, but after several years I miss the tried and true format. The only huge upside the brand split has given is allowing some of the guys lower on the card more opportunity to showcase their talents. But, double edged sword and all, it's all allowed a lot of guys to have time on the main shows when they'd be better off improving themselves on a B show.

And of course there's the whole "why isolate your talent away from each other?" arguement, but I've got homework to do and I'm not in the mood to keep ranting about how the brand split is evil and kills kittens and touches me in no no places.

[tad091]

I just read that Shaul Guerrero was signed last week by WWE and will show up at FCW soon. Anyone have an idea if this is true?

[Bigpapa42]

I just read that Shaul Guerrero was signed last week by WWE and will show up at FCW soon. Anyone have an idea if this is true?

Read that as well. Girl is quite lovely, based on the pics I've seen.

[tad091]

Read that as well. Girl is quite lovely, based on the pics I've seen.

Just saw a pic of her in an anti-Aggie shirt and no one knows how much I like her after that. :D I had completely forgot that Vickie still lived in El Paso. I hope Shaul does well though, and I can't wait to see what she's capable of.

[Jaysin]

If she inherits a tenth of Eddy's natural ability and charisma, we're in for a hell of a ride. Hopefully they're able to get Chavo involved in her training. I think he'd be able to instill some of the family's Latino Heat in her.

[Comradebot]

If she inherits a tenth of Eddy's natural ability and charisma, we're in for a hell of a ride. Hopefully they're able to get Chavo involved in her training. I think he'd be able to instill some of the family's Latino Heat in her.

:eek:

That came out wrong.

[Stennick]

Hahahahahaha!

[tad091]

Oh, Jaysin :rolleyes:

[cappyboy]

:eek:

That came out wrong.

It's okay. I was able to follow what he meant with out going to the double entrendre. Probably helps this is the first time I'm hearing of the girl and have no mental image to take me down to the red light district.

[shawn michaels 82]

I blame the brand split on the fall of the IC title. Back before it, I LOVED to watch the ongoing battles for it between the likes of guys like Ken Shamrock, Goldust, Val Venis, ect...

But with the talent spread out, less talented and popular guys, including folks who in the olden days would've been involved in the European title picture, are competiting for it. I like the WWE's current apparent direction towards the removal of the brand split. It was a neat idea at first, but after several years I miss the tried and true format. The only huge upside the brand split has given is allowing some of the guys lower on the card more opportunity to showcase their talents. But, double edged sword and all, it's all allowed a lot of guys to have time on the main shows when they'd be better off improving themselves on a B show.

And of course there's the whole "why isolate your talent away from each other?" arguement, but I've got homework to do and I'm not in the mood to keep ranting about how the brand split is evil and kills kittens and touches me in no no places.

Well, i wouldn't blame it all on the brand split,but it did became obsolete after a couple of years. Back then they had bought WCW recently, were fully loaded of talent and it made sense. Now...times changed...as we all know. But i still remember some good IC runs after the brand split. To me, the last great IC run was Orton's. Damn, i think that belt was almost a world championship on his waist back then,as he performed his "hate me, i am the despicable evil dude" routine perfectly. Ah yes...good times.... At least better times than now. :D

[SaySo]

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6092/colesig.png

The WWE website announced that the three-hour Monday Night RAW event taking place on November 29, 2010 at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania will feature the return of the King of the Ring tournament.

The synopsis reads: “In a single evening, one man will become a legend as the King of the Ring Tournament returns for the first time in over 2 years live from Philadelphia. On a special 3-Hour Raw Event Superstars from Raw and SmackDown will battle for the honor to be crowned King of all WWE and royally solidify their spot in sports-entertainment history.”

[SaySo]

Courtesy of WWE.com, click here (http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/wwezombies/) to access it.

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/1600x1200/16097986

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/1600x1200/16098102

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/1600x1200/16098122

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/1600x1200/16097756

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/1600x1200/16097726

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/800x600/8496910

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/1280x1024/8497010

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/1600x1200/16098082

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/1600x1200/16098158

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/1280x1024/12191086

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/wallpapers/1600x1200/16098024

[Tha Black Phenom]

I can't wait for the Punk Danielson feud they started setting up to start.

Unfortunately, you'll have to, as it seems Punk is sidelined for the rest of the year. :(

[Comradebot]

Sheamus zombie is truly terrifying.

As is Hornswoggle.

Guess we're screwed if the Zombie Apocalypse strikes while we're in Ireland.

[Bigpapa42]

Zombie Vickie actually looks a bit better than normal.

Something about Zombie Swagger's grin is disconcerting...

[SaySo]

WWE.com has announced the themes for the upcoming 3-hour episodes of Raw.

November 15th: Raw Old School
November 29th: King Of The Ring
December 13th: Slammy Awards

[The Celt]

Death Phoenix is totally badass #WWEZombies

[supershot]

Cena just finished a new song with Bumpy Knuckles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuWkgNzyU9o&feature=player_embedded

Kinda has a heel vibe doesn't it? Hmm...

[crownsy]

Unfortunately, you'll have to, as it seems Punk is sidelined for the rest of the year. :(

You have a link for this? I know he had a MRI on the hip but i haven't heard the results.

[BurningHamster]

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6092/colesig.png

The WWE website announced that the three-hour Monday Night RAW event taking place on November 29, 2010 at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania will feature the return of the King of the Ring tournament.

The synopsis reads: “In a single evening, one man will become a legend as the King of the Ring Tournament returns for the first time in over 2 years live from Philadelphia. On a special 3-Hour Raw Event Superstars from Raw and SmackDown will battle for the honor to be crowned King of all WWE and royally solidify their spot in sports-entertainment history.”

I like this news, I miss the King of the Ring and dislike how few tournaments and things WWE has these days.

[Basmat01]

Gerwick.net
According to Boxofficemojo.com the newest WWE Films release “Knucklehead” only made $75.00 total between the six theaters it opened in this past weekend. This is by far the lowest grossing WWE Films release to date.


Now I can understand that this movie wasnt going to set the box office on fire and was seen only in six theaters but $75 bucks between them is a joke lol. TBH the movie looks like crap

[alden]

75.00? i find that a little hard to believe.......maybe 7500 but 75.00? that is 7 and a half tickets *atleast the pices at my movie theater*. there have to be more then 7 wwe fans who wanted to see that lol. Even if it was only in six theaters.

[dvdWarrior]

75.00? i find that a little hard to believe.......maybe 7500 but 75.00? that is 7 and a half tickets *atleast the pices at my movie theater*. there have to be more then 7 wwe fans who wanted to see that lol. Even if it was only in six theaters.

In all fairness, I didn't realize it was already in any theaters. Still, $75 does seem low as crap. That's the only number I've been able to find too. Surely that can't be the case.

[supershot]

Wow.. if thats not a typo then Im lost for words..

[djthefunkchris]

Why even release a movie if it's only going to show in six movie theatre's anyways? Why not just forget the theatre, and go for DVD (which is coming out already I think).

From just the previews, to me it looks like it might be the funniest/best release WWE has made so far.... I mean, it looks funny, I don't know if it actually is. Just saying, that even if I didn't know who Big Show was, or the WWE, I think I would watch it... just because it looks funny.

I don't believe I ever see any of their commercials on anything but their program, which probably doesn't help them at all... As long as the only people know are the people that watch the show, they are going to be limited alot. It's almost as though they think they are more popular then they actually are. A good solid commercial played like other movie's are (I mean come on... they could get as much people to watch as Drag me to Hell did, couldn't they?), I would think they might get quite a bit more viewers.

If they only made 75 bucks all together in six theatre's, then it probably only showed one time... at least I would hope. I think I could make a movie and get more viewers then that...... without any commercial broadcasts... in one theatre.

[James Casey]

Limited showings on two days only - afternoons as well, I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyzzyx_Road covers a film that had a similar return, although in that case it was a deliberate decision on the maker's part.

Knucklehead is coming out on DVD/BR in a couple of weeks' time, so I guess it's a case of testing the waters for a theatrical release by WWE Films for future prospects (the Tiple H film?)

[SaySo]

http://i55.tinypic.com/21mrjtj.gif

Tyler Rek's finisher.

Love seeing him do it against Chris Masters as well.

[supershot]

I love it! Its like a sit down reverse FU.. err Attitude Adjustment.

[SaySo]

Not to mention DDT at the end.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep good finisher at least for those he can lift.

[alden]

I thought it was going to be something like a burning hammer and thought *no way someone this green is going to pull off a burning hammer*

[SaySo]

Lita appears on TV.

[TracyBrooksFan]

Lita looks good still

[supershot]

Think she sticks around?

[sabataged]

DH Smith is just horrible

[TheEdgeOfReason]

What is this?:eek:

At least Trips was there

[SaySo]

Stephanie McMahon and the voice of HHH.

[supershot]

VKM For United States President!

[SaySo]

In Steph's dreams lol.

[supershot]

In Steph's dreams lol.

Haha good one.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

So we can now see Stephs dreams?

If they're gonna run those kinda angles, may as well give up all pretense of kayfabe and admit it's all a work.

[SaySo]

The doctor looked awfully familiar. Freddie Prinze Jr? He must be performing without a license.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

The doctor looked awfully familiar. Freddie Prinze Jr? He must be performing without a license.

Yeah it was him. That whole segment was ridiculous.

[SaySo]

It was missing Mr. Socko and Dr. Stone Cold.

[alden]

anyone think if linda does not win tomarrow that the wwe will go back to a more "adult" product.....atleast blood and a few curse words?

[crownsy]

anyone think if linda does not win tomarrow that the wwe will go back to a more "adult" product.....atleast blood and a few curse words?

Not a chance in hell.

When you look at the financial figures, WWE is actually doing better than the "attutude" era from a strictly business standpoint, mostly due to increased sponsor appeal and fees.

They aren't going to risk losing big money sponsors so that they can take a shot at catching fire again when money's stable like it is now.

Hell they fired a guy they clearly like because his tie choking incident freaked out a sponsor, there not going to go back to PG-13 on a whim post election cycle.

[SaySo]

Eric Bischoff had said something about it back during the Attitude Era about the kind of programming they were offering would backfire on them.

Hopefully can find a direct quote on it...since it made sense.

[juggaloninjalee]

They gotta stop with the celebrity hosts or whatever. They are terrible spots!

[supershot]

Pee Wee Herman is to Me as..
Clowns are to everyone else

Not joking.

[alden]

Not a chance in hell.

When you look at the financial figures, WWE is actually doing better than the "attutude" era from a strictly business standpoint, mostly due to increased sponsor appeal and fees.

They aren't going to risk losing big money sponsors so that they can take a shot at catching fire again when money's stable like it is now.

Hell they fired a guy they clearly like because his tie choking incident freaked out a sponsor, there not going to go back to PG-13 on a whim post election cycle.

I have to admit i don't follow the "financial" stuff of the wwe like i use to but does the incressed sponshership make up for the lower ppv and tv ratings? I know they are not tarrible but they are not high as they once were *but then again that just could the times we are in*. I know they are getting many more "fammily friendly" sponsers but they are not getting that much wanted 18 to 35 demographic that alot of sponsers want so badly.

[dvdWarrior]

Personally, I loved seeing Pee-Wee on Raw. I was a fan as a kid, I'm kind of a fan now, and, to be honest, the fact that so many wrestling fans I know were... less than thrilled... with the thought of having Pee-Wee on Raw only served to make it that much more fun for me.

The Twister segment was bad though, didn't seem like Pee-Wee material to me. The segment with The Miz and The Big P was much better, but there was still something missing.

There was some pretty good wrestling on Raw tonight too.

Good show in my book.

[supershot]

Ya it was a pretty good RAW. Anyone else think R Truth is gonna be turning heel within a few weeks?

[crownsy]

I have to admit i don't follow the "financial" stuff of the wwe like i use to but does the incressed sponshership make up for the lower ppv and tv ratings? I know they are not tarrible but they are not high as they once were *but then again that just could the times we are in*. I know they are getting many more "fammily friendly" sponsers but they are not getting that much wanted 18 to 35 demographic that alot of sponsers want so badly.

I don't have the numbers on hand, but they are making significantly more than they were back then. It's also much more stable to court the big sponsors and easy fees than being totally dependent on PPV buys, which allows them to expand into things like WWE films and the proposed cable network.

and for all the talk of low ratings, they finish top 3 in the 18-35 demo every week.

This time of year is tough for them because MNF is a juggernaut, but they still help USA kill it in the cable ratings.

[crownsy]

Ya it was a pretty good RAW. Anyone else think R Truth is gonna be turning heel within a few weeks?

I think someone's turning

Spoiler:

The leaked new theme song for cena leads me to think it's him, just because that seems like such a heel sounding song. OF course that could be the WWE working us

[SaySo]

^to go along with the spoiler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuWkgNzyU9o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuWkgNzyU9o)

*WARNING* Click on the line if you read the spoilers.

[The Final Countdown]

Having read the spoiler and clicked the link: that seems like a real possibility. And an interesting one, if you ask me.

[Candyman]

So we can now see Stephs dreams?

If they're gonna run those kinda angles, may as well give up all pretense of kayfabe and admit it's all a work.

This kind of thinking always confuses me, maybe you can help me out. What makes the WWE different than CSI or The Office or General Hospital? They're all TV shows, aren't they? Why do people expect realism from Raw? It's not a "work," it's FICTION. How is seeing Steph's dreams worse than any other backstage segment where the workers act like the cameras aren't there? Do you expect Steve Carroll to admit The Office is a work? They're not pretending it's real. Everybody knows it's fiction. It makes no sense.

Not a chance in hell.

When you look at the financial figures, WWE is actually doing better than the "attutude" era from a strictly business standpoint, mostly due to increased sponsor appeal and fees.

They aren't going to risk losing big money sponsors so that they can take a shot at catching fire again when money's stable like it is now.

Hell they fired a guy they clearly like because his tie choking incident freaked out a sponsor, there not going to go back to PG-13 on a whim post election cycle.

Exactly. Contary to popular belief, few (if any) of their decisions are due to Linda's run for office. They'll change from PG when it'll make them more money, and that is definitively not the case today.

But...didn't we finally accept that Daniel Bryan being fired was a work?

[PeterHilton]

But...didn't we finally accept that Daniel Bryan being fired was a work?

No. That was still just you. Most people think they fired him temporarily and then brought him back when things blew over.

Which is far more logical than running a "worked" firing that served no real purpose since it was never really mentioned or acknowledged on TV.

[crownsy]

from hearing his and other's comments post rehiring, i think the truth is in the middle.

I think they fired him, but as some speculated at the time it was with a "keep your head down, don't talk about it, and your back in a few months once the sponsor stops complaining" type of firing.

He was "fired" as in cut from the company payroll, but given every assurance that if he stayed quite about the whole thing, he'd be back sooner rather than later.

[PeterHilton]

Not a chance in hell.

When you look at the financial figures, WWE is actually doing better than the "attutude" era from a strictly business standpoint, mostly due to increased sponsor appeal and fees.

They aren't going to risk losing big money sponsors so that they can take a shot at catching fire again when money's stable like it is now.

Hell they fired a guy they clearly like because his tie choking incident freaked out a sponsor, there not going to go back to PG-13 on a whim post election cycle.

I'm not sure "better" is a totally fair term. Hard revenue is down. But they have more revenue streams and are more profitable because they cut spending.

But your point is true: they aren't changing a product that it took them years to put in place.

[PeterHilton]

from hearing his and other's comments post rehiring, i think the truth is in the middle.

I think they fired him, but as some speculated at the time it was with a "keep your head down, don't talk about it, and your back in a few months once the sponsor stops complaining" type of firing.

He was "fired" as in cut from the company payroll, but given every assurance that if he stayed quite about the whole thing, he'd be back sooner rather than later.

Exactly. This happens to pro athletes all the time in all sports.

[The Two]

Yeah it was him. That whole segment was ridiculous.
Not only was it ridiculous, it missed opportunities to be funny. It would have gone up hugely in my estimation if Vince's response to being told Undertaker had been buried had been "Not again." Just simple things showing a little wit and awareness of past events.

Speaking of past events, since when is Vince in a coma? Did I miss the start of this plot or have I just purged it from my memory?

[MichiganHero]

Not only was it ridiculous, it missed opportunities to be funny. It would have gone up hugely in my estimation if Vince's response to being told Undertaker had been buried had been "Not again." Just simple things showing a little wit and awareness of past events.

Speaking of past events, since when is Vince in a coma? Did I miss the start of this plot or have I just purged it from my memory?

I think it is doe to the Nexus. It never did say if he went into a coma though/

[LoNdOn]

I marked out big time when I saw Lita.

Is she coming back? I haven't heard anything about her returning.

If not, what was the point of here being on the show?

[SaySo]

LoNdOn,

Former WWE Women's Champion Lita made an appearance on Monday's episode of WWE RAW in a segment with Pee-Wee Herman, Melina, Mark Henry, Eve Torres and The Bella Twins.

Lita's appearance on RAW was a one-time deal and she has not re-signed with World Wrestling Entertainment.

Lita is said to be a huge Pee-Wee Herman fan and was called over the weekend to see if she was interested.

[LoNdOn]

LoNdOn,

Former WWE Women's Champion Lita made an appearance on Monday's episode of WWE RAW in a segment with Pee-Wee Herman, Melina, Mark Henry, Eve Torres and The Bella Twins.

Lita's appearance on RAW was a one-time deal and she has not re-signed with World Wrestling Entertainment.

Lita is said to be a huge Pee-Wee Herman fan and was called over the weekend to see if she was interested.

Thanks, although I have to say that sucks! I was really hoping she was coming back :(

[20LEgend]

Are the guests always that bad, maybe it's a british thing but I hated seeing that in WWE that I used to enjoy so much

[SaySo]

LoL at this GIF

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3489/nat.gif

[TakerNGN74]

Wow...Just wow

[The Two]

Not technically WWE news, but the BBC just called Linda McMahon the "former Chief Executive of World Championship Wrestling." I chuckled. Also that she "spent 60 million bucks of her own money on her campaign - which could have been better spent otherwise."

Anyway, she's gonna lose. *Sigh of Relief*

[alden]

http://rajah.com/base/node/20671

fifty million well spent lol

[crownsy]

http://rajah.com/base/node/20671

fifty million well spent lol

I don't agree with her politics, but i applaud her for trying. I'm happy she lost, but I don't think she was a nutjob for trying to run for public office.

And really, to them, whats 50 million dollars at this point?

[crownsy]

Not so much a comment on the quality of the skit, which i though was meh at best, but I have to chuckle at people calling the Vinny Mac dream sequence corny/weird/not wrestling show material ect

Do you people remember the attitude era we were all so fond of? along with the edgier stuff, it had hundreds, if not thousands of goofy/weird skits like this.

This goes back to my theory that people blame the PG rating because it's an easy out. The difference between the attitude era and the PG era isn't the rating, it's the talent.

Aside from the fact that no one said a pg-13 swear word or made a high school sexual innuendo joke, that skit would have fit right in in a 1999 Raw, yet people hated it.

People miss Rock, Austin, Angle in his prime, Prime taker, Ect, not some magical glow that a PG-13 rating provided.

The problem is, with a few notable exceptions, the new generation just isn't as entertaining as the guys from the mid eighties - late nineties.

[haloed]

I watched Raw for the first time in a long time on Monday and I must say I was entertained and enjoyed pretty much the whole show. That's really all I want from pro wrestling, just to be entertained. The only thing I think that sticks out from Raw that I didn't like is easily Michael Cole.

[djthefunkchris]

Not so much a comment on the quality of the skit, which i though was meh at best, but I have to chuckle at people calling the Vinny Mac dream sequence corny/weird/not wrestling show material ect

Do you people remember the attitude era we were all so fond of? along with the edgier stuff, it had hundreds, if not thousands of goofy/weird skits like this.

This goes back to my theory that people blame the PG rating because it's an easy out. The difference between the attitude era and the PG era isn't the rating, it's the talent.

Aside from the fact that no one said a pg-13 swear word or made a high school sexual innuendo joke, that skit would have fit right in in a 1999 Raw, yet people hated it.

People miss Rock, Austin, Angle in his prime, Prime taker, Ect, not some magical glow that a PG-13 rating provided.

The problem is, with a few notable exceptions, the new generation just isn't as entertaining as the guys from the mid eighties - late nineties.

Most long term watcher's have too high of standards, to be able to enjoy the shows for what they are.

WWE was always about not "pretending" we don't know it's fake. They even have that notice at the beginning of their shows half the time, with John Cena or someone else saying something similar to "Although the superstars are not really competing, remember that the performance is done by professionals, and can cause serious injury. Please don't try this at home!"

I've said it before, if that doesn't tell you that they aren't trying to fool anyone, than I really don't know what would. It's been obvious they let the crowd in on the fact it's a show, and not real competition for like 20 years or more.

[Slagaholic]

I watched Raw for the first time in a long time on Monday and I must say I was entertained and enjoyed pretty much the whole show. That's really all I want from pro wrestling, just to be entertained. The only thing I think that sticks out from Raw that I didn't like is easily Michael Cole.

I feel a big problem with alotta people that bitch and moan about any wrestling show is that they go in to it not wanting to be entertained but to be impressed.

[alden]

I really did not mind the segment i guess. There was some good comedy *next you are going to tell me bryan danilson is the us champ* and the fifty million reaction was classic.

[BHK1978]

Am I the only one that hated the Attitude Era?

[dvdWarrior]

Am I the only one that hated the Attitude Era?

No, I wasn't too crazy about it myself. Too many impromptu matches, too much... attitude? I guess... DX tinkling on DOA's bikes does not a good wrestling show, make. For me anyway.

[BHK1978]

No, I wasn't too crazy about it myself. Too many impromptu matches, too much... attitude? I guess... DX tinkling on DOA's bikes does not a good wrestling show, make. For me anyway.

Well pretty much anything dealing with DX is going to get me to change the channel.:D

[20LEgend]

Am I the only one that hated the Attitude Era?

No, I wasn't too crazy about it myself. Too many impromptu matches, too much... attitude? I guess... DX tinkling on DOA's bikes does not a good wrestling show, make. For me anyway.

which era's did you guys like

[dvdWarrior]

I mainly loved WCW during the 1990s, (though I admit I did kinda switch over to the WWF in 2000 or so, when WCW absolutely just went to the dogs). I loved the 1980s NWA, and I very much loved the 1980s WWF as well.

[PeterHilton]

Honestly i would want to know how someone could "love" 1980s WWF or NWA for that matter.

How old were you?

Because the TV shows back then consisted of jobber squash match after jobber squash match and maybe - if you were lucky - you'd see two semi-midcarders face each other.

In WWF's case, the matches were slow, plodding, kick-kick-punch fests for the most part, and the ONLY time you saw a really big match were on SNME or if there was some supershow at MSG and they aired a few matches on USA Primetime a few days later. Or if you went to a house show. Angles and interviews were run weekly...but the true superstars like Hogan and Savage would barely be involved unless they had a big show coming up (with no real PPV schedule you could go literally weeks w/o seeing Hogan on TV).

And WCW was largely the same except the matches were slightly better and they had no MSG network so the only time you saw a great match was when TBS would run a Clash of the Champions.

The 80s had some great characters, but from the average fan's perspective, it sucked to watch wrestling. How many time do I need to see Dino Bravo beat 'Cowboy' Scott Casey? Nostalgia colors everyone's perspective, but give me main event matches every week, PPV "supershows" once a month, and Crash TV any day of the week.

[Stennick]

I just watched an episode of NWA's World Championship Wrestilng from 1987 and let me tell you it was AWFUL.

Everything people yell at TNA about happened in this show.

There was one non squash match a ten minute draw between Blanchard and Brad Armstrong.

JJ Dillon alone had SEVEN different interview segments on this show alone.

The Horesemen are in every other match and no lie had SEVEN or EIGHT different promos on one television show.

Seriously people complain about the nWo but they must not remember 1980's NWA because the Four Horesemen were the entire company up to that point.

They promoted a HUGE Barry Windham vs. ARn Anderson match for the main event only to change it to "White Lightning" Tim Horner vs. Arn Anderson and then Barry Windham interfered anyway as if to say "see he was here and could have wrestled but we didn't want to give this show away just promote like we were going to"

the commentary is awful, just a dreadful show all the way around.

The actual wrestling when it came together was great but as for television in the 80's it was horrible.

[PeterHilton]

Exactly my point...fans suffer from "good ol' days" syndrome.

Let's say you stuck a fan from today back in 1986 for instance..and he said "man this is awesome I love Randy Savage..can't wait to see him in his prime."

Your reply: "That's great. Randy is really hot right now so he's focusing on the house show circuit. he won't be on TV at all wrestling. He *might* run in to save some jobber from a guitar shot to pump up the feud he has going with Honky Tonk Man (for instance) ..and if you're REALLY lucky he's coming to an arena in your general vicinity so there will be a canned backstage interview with Macho segment stuck on that Saturday's edition of the WWF's syndicated prgram ...but unless you want to go buy tickets to the house show ...you won't actually see him on TV for about a month."

Yay!

[djthefunkchris]

Honestly i would want to know how someone could "love" 1980s WWF or NWA for that matter.

How old were you?

Because the TV shows back then consisted of jobber squash match after jobber squash match and maybe - if you were lucky - you'd see two semi-midcarders face each other.

In WWF's case, the matches were slow, plodding, kick-kick-punch fests for the most part, and the ONLY time you saw a really big match were on SNME or if there was some supershow at MSG and they aired a few matches on USA Primetime a few days later. Or if you went to a house show. Angles and interviews were run weekly...but the true superstars like Hogan and Savage would barely be involved unless they had a big show coming up (with no real PPV schedule you could go literally weeks w/o seeing Hogan on TV).

And WCW was largely the same except the matches were slightly better and they had no MSG network so the only time you saw a great match was when TBS would run a Clash of the Champions.

The 80s had some great characters, but from the average fan's perspective, it sucked to watch wrestling. How many time do I need to see Dino Bravo beat 'Cowboy' Scott Casey? Nostalgia colors everyone's perspective, but give me main event matches every week, PPV "supershows" once a month, and Crash TV any day of the week.

Before PVP's become so popular, we did get to see great match-ups. The thing is, there was more focus on alot of different worker's. The 1980's to me was alot better then "attitude" era, but perhaps it has to do with my age as well... Most people that liked the attitude era so much were around the same age I was during the 80's (High School, etc.).

I've said that before. I think when you were really introduced to wrestling is going to be the time you loved it the most. My dad watched WWE with me one night, and Lita had the ref's attention while the other wrestler did an illegal move (Edge), and the ref turns in time to do the three count. My dad says "This is the same crap it was when I used to watch it" and bassically he called what was going to happen before it did. "She's going to distract the ref, now he's going to cheat, ha. Crap, total crap!" He watched it in the 60 - 70s era.

These "Squash Match's" that you bring up... You have to realise that it was actually a good thing, not a bad thing. You could watch someone like Piper take out a guy in no time flat, and sometimes he was actually flashy with them. The thing is, we didn't know they were "Jobbers"... We just thought of them as up and comer's, or people that were looking for a shot. Once in a while that so called "Jobber" would win, and when that happened, it would really make someone take notice of the Jobber, and they would then come out and become something else... and sometimes they would call it the "Biggest fluke ever!" You would think "Wow! Who is this guy?" And on and on it would go.

The biggest pluss to that is... When you have a squash or jobber match, you have the guy that's not the Jobber able to stick out greater. He's in the ring, he's on the sideline getting interviewed before, after, or both, etc. He's the one getting all the attention, and you get to know him better each time he beats a jobber. In other words, it's alot more focused on the ONE person, rather then on both of the competitor's at once.

One of the things that really hurts wrestling right now, I believe, is that they cannot take the time to create character's that everyone gets to know, and keep the other characters relevant at the same time.

Each show was different back then. One show Hogan might be on, another the Sheik, etc. There was alway's a different focus each week, not the same focus every week like there is now. That's why the shows are 2 hours instead of 1 now, I guess... Too many people to focus on.

[PeterHilton]

chris, your post is incredibly patronizing. I'm not stupid.

I'm 34. I was old enough in the 80s to have watched the WWF regularly. I know what the purpose of jobber matches are..it doesn't make them good or any better that they "served a purpose."

Fans don't want to watch that crap, which is exactly why WCW caught fire when they went AWAY from that format.

Don't try to sell me on a show full of jobber matches. I'm not buying.

As for your "different focus" argument: I don't know what you mean other than they slowed down the pace of storytelling. Well guess what? That's exactly what the WWE is doing now, which is why we get to see feuds that last 3-4 PPVs before they are settled.

If anything, the storytelling of the current product is closer to the 80s than ever before..which is why it's turned off a lot of the younger fans who grew up on the Attitude Era.

[BHK1978]

There are still squash matches going on today. Yes today's jobbers are not like Barry Horowitz or Pez Whatley in that today's jobbers win. However, if you see a match between Goldust and John Cena, you know the outcome before it happens.

[djthefunkchris]

chris, your post is incredibly patronizing. I'm not stupid.

I'm 34. I was old enough in the 80s to have watched the WWF regularly. I know what the purpose of jobber matches are..it doesn't make them good or any better that they "served a purpose."

Fans don't want to watch that crap, which is exactly why WCW caught fire when they went AWAY from that format.

Don't try to sell me on a show full of jobber matches. I'm not buying.

As for your "different focus" argument: I don't know what you mean other than they slowed down the pace of storytelling. Well guess what? That's exactly what the WWE is doing now, which is why we get to see feuds that last 3-4 PPVs before they are settled.

If anything, the storytelling of the current product is closer to the 80s than ever before..which is why it's turned off a lot of the younger fans who grew up on the Attitude Era.

Might be why I'm actually enjoying it moreso now, then a couple of years ago.

I'm not trying to be patronizing to you.... not even a little bit. But looking back and watching is totally different then going to your friends house, or having friends over to watch wrestling, and going watching it just as people did with the attitude era (getting together watching it, watching it at bars/clubs, etc.). We did all that back then. Your 10 years younger then me, so of course your going to think more highly of the next decade, when you did all those things. Neither one of us are going to be happy with today's product, no matter what happens really... We will always remember "when" it was OUR wrestling.

Your a bit above what I'm talking about, but we are all effected with this sort of thing. Songs that you will remember for the rest of you life, that you can put with a great or bad part of your life, will always hold a special place no matter how old they get. It's just the way of the world/same 'ol song, etc.

No matter how many article's a person writes, grammies they win, notoriaty and fame a person has in their life, these things will always hold true. We are all products of our environment, and really nothing is going to make you forget the parts of your life that determined the kind of person you become... good or bad.

Not to say people can't change, I'm talking on a general note here. If I grew up watching the "A-Team" or "Dukes of Hazzard", I'm not going to think the movies were any good in comparison... Unless they are 10 times better.

[BHK1978]

Well I did not see the A-Team but The Dukes of Hazzard was a high pile of dog crap and the only thing good about it was Jessica Simpson in short shorts.:D So yes in that case the TV wins...

[LordJaguar]

Well I did not see the A-Team but The Dukes of Hazzard was a high pile of dog crap and the only thing good about it was Jessica Simpson in short shorts.:D So yes in that case the TV wins...

Am I the only one who like Dukes? The damn Broken Lizard Super Trooper scene was effin HIGH larious!

[PeterHilton]

There are still squash matches going on today. Yes today's jobbers are not like Barry Horowitz or Pez Whatley in that today's jobbers win. However, if you see a match between Goldust and John Cena, you know the outcome before it happens.

I'm not saying there aren't squash matches. I'm saying that you couldn't get fans now to sit through a show full of them, which is what 80s TV shows were for the most part

Might be why I'm actually enjoying it moreso now, then a couple of years ago.

I'm not trying to be patronizing to you.... not even a little bit. But looking back and watching is totally different then going to your friends house, or having friends over to watch wrestling, and going watching it just as people did with the attitude era (getting together watching it, watching it at bars/clubs, etc.). We did all that back then. Your 10 years younger then me, so of course your going to think more highly of the next decade, when you did all those things. Neither one of us are going to be happy with today's product, no matter what happens really... We will always remember "when" it was OUR wrestling.

Your a bit above what I'm talking about, but we are all effected with this sort of thing. Songs that you will remember for the rest of you life, that you can put with a great or bad part of your life, will always hold a special place no matter how old they get. It's just the way of the world/same 'ol song, etc.

No matter how many article's a person writes, grammies they win, notoriaty and fame a person has in their life, these things will always hold true. We are all products of our environment, and really nothing is going to make you forget the parts of your life that determined the kind of person you become... good or bad.

Not to say people can't change, I'm talking on a general note here. If I grew up watching the "A-Team" or "Dukes of Hazzard", I'm not going to think the movies were any good in comparison... Unless they are 10 times better.

Thanks. You just explained "nostalgia" for everyone who didn't know what that was. :p

I think all fans of al sports do the whole "it was better when i was young" thing

I just think it's more justified or fair with wrestling -specifically the WWE- because the WWE actually did change their product and change their presentation: A generation of fans grew up on one kind of show and WWE went out of their way and made a business decision to go a different direction.

Actually, now that I think about it..they did it twice.

80s fans grew up and didn't really like the Attitude Era because it was radically different. And then those Attitude fans grew up and complain about the product now, because it's radically different.

So while it's true that people will tend to prefer what they grew up on, it's also not entirely their fault that the company they grew up watching decided to change what they were doing.

EDIT: But back to what I was saying..wrestling TV in the 80s was balls. No matter how old you are.

[djthefunkchris]

There are still squash matches going on today. Yes today's jobbers are not like Barry Horowitz or Pez Whatley in that today's jobbers win. However, if you see a match between Goldust and John Cena, you know the outcome before it happens.

My whole point was that they could concentrate higher on one thing at a time, then they can right now. With the "Jobber" in place as the opponant, who else are you going to be interested in?

Remember, these things I'm talking about were DURING the territorial times, and before the first Wrestlemania. When I say something like that last sentence, that's not me being patronizing, I'm just trying to set the mood.... The time's back then wasn't as focused on TV ratings and who put on the best show, but on the wrestler's themselves.

For example... You didn't see everyone going "Crocket" "Crocket" or "WWWF" "WWWF"! They chanted Names "SNUKA!" "SNUKA!". They might not know his opponant, but by god they come to see Snuka! That's part of my point about focus. You would see Mean Jean interview a star, and you would get a good idea if you liked that star or not. You didn't see him interview the jobber (Gold-Dust in the example above).

Even after re-reading both of these posts, I don't feel like I'm conveying the message I'm trying to convey. Go ahead and dismiss it if you must, but there is something I'm trying to say that I'm just for some reason unable to get accross.

[PeterHilton]

No offense, chris, but the world has moved on from a time when TV ratings didn't matter and no one cared about putting on a good show. You might as well be talking about the Jurassic Era.

Anything before the first WM is almost completely irrelevant to wrestling today.

Same reason why I never want to hear people talk about people from before 1979 as 'the greatest wrestler ever'...it's not even the same thing.

[LordJaguar]

Can't we put on a "good" show here people care about the stars and not if they face other stars? WCW may have been killed by the NWO storyline but at it's height it did an entire NWO PPV where there was 1 match that had both sides with stars. A lot of the NWO matches were against "jobbers" even if they were sold as "legitamit" opponents.