The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Wrestling Century]

Why was Vance Archer, Shad and Luke Gallows released? If you were to ask me last week what young superstars/rookies/new wrestlers would most likely still be in the WWE five years from now, those three would most likely be near the top of my list. What gives?

[MichiganHero]

Why was Vance Archer, Shad and Luke Gallows released? If you were to ask me last week what young superstars/rookies/new wrestlers would most likely still be in the WWE five years from now, those three would most likely be near the top of my list. What gives?

To be fair, Shad and Luke have been in the 'E for a while. Shame about Gallows, he could really have been something. Now let us sing.

Biscuits and Gravy
Made me a man!

[BHK1978]

Why was Vance Archer, Shad and Luke Gallows released? If you were to ask me last week what young superstars/rookies/new wrestlers would most likely still be in the WWE five years from now, those three would most likely be near the top of my list. What gives?

Because Vance Archer stinks, he stunk in TNA and he stunk in the WWF.

[juggaloninjalee]

I am honestly not surprised in the least bit. After the SES Gallows had nothing. Shad I kinda like but oh well.

[maskedpropaganda]

Hardly watch these days but THE DUDEBUSTERS RULED! They were very entertaining, That sucks! The rest were wastes of space IMO though.

[lazorbeak]

Kind of surprising that Jillian Hall got released; she's one of the few solid hands among the divas, and could always be counted on to make less experienced girls look good. Hope she ends up somewhere where she can show some of her actual talent though.

[alden]

isen't hall becoming a trainer in fcw? She might have been released from her "talent" contract. From what i understand talent have a diffrent contract then staff. Hence why j.r. no longer has a "talent" contract but a corprate position. Hall might get the same deal as a "trainer" type of deal.

[b0shey]

Damn, WWE really doing some winter cleaning.. Archer lasted longer than i though he would and for the rest its kind of MEH!!.

[brashleyholland]

Probably because Vince doesn't watch MMA and is about 10 years out of touch.

I guess it's a hard thing to play off if the guy doesn't have a legit MMA background to begin with. When they brought Shamrock in, he was at the height of his MMA fame and a world-ranked competitor. It's tough to say "Hey, here's Johnny Cagefighter, the baddest man in MMA"...ok, so why is he not competing in MMA then?

Maybe it's just a lack of someone who can do the job? I think if you had a current MMA heavyweight who had everything that Shamrock had back in 96 and was willing to walk away from the game, WWE would be all over him. Chael Sonnen would be perfect, but is probably too small.

[Stennick]

Ken Shamrock was equal to Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Brock Lesnar, Randy,

this guy was world famous he was a former "champion" for lack of a better term and he truly was considered one of the best in the world especially by the American Media who were happy somebody beat a Gracie.

Rampage if he wasn't doing movies would have been perfect for the WWE, guys like Tito, Chuck and Randy are just too old and have lost some of their legacy with bad losses in later times.

If I was making a wish list of MMA guys that have the name power and the athletic ability to "catch on" as well as the personality it'd be guys like Lesnar, Mir, Hughes, Jackson, Lewis, Serra and thats about it off the top of my head of guys with name value, athletic ability and personality to make an impact.

[lazorbeak]

I guess it's a hard thing to play off if the guy doesn't have a legit MMA background to begin with. When they brought Shamrock in, he was at the height of his MMA fame and a world-ranked competitor. It's tough to say "Hey, here's Johnny Cagefighter, the baddest man in MMA"...ok, so why is he not competing in MMA then?

Maybe it's just a lack of someone who can do the job? I think if you had a current MMA heavyweight who had everything that Shamrock had back in 96 and was willing to walk away from the game, WWE would be all over him. Chael Sonnen would be perfect, but is probably too small.

Bob Sapp was a HUGE missed opportunity, considering he did some work in Japan and became a household way in that embarrassing Mr. T/Hulk Hogan way.

[ChrisKid]

From the WWE website ...



They killed the Dudebusters! :mad:

i always prefered Croft so im sad :(
Archers gone i'm sad:(
Jillians gone meh
Tiffanys gone :eek: (damn)

[Self]

I'm uncomfortable with MMA guys intersecting with Pro Wrestling promotions. It tends to bring up all sorts of "one is fake, one is real" comparisons, and I think the last thing you need in wrestling is to say 'this is fake'. I'm okay with Basketball players coming in, or football players, or even Boxers, because those are very different sports to what wrestling pretends to be, and so can comfortably exist side-by-side. MMA is just too similar, with the only difference being that wrestling is a highly stylized, fictional sport.

That isn't to say there aren't a lot of guys in MMA who would make great pro-wrestlers. Stennick mentioned some. You could certainly give a guy MMA influenced aesthetics (outfit, moves etc) but to me, if you're bringing in a 'star', and want to draw with his pre-existing star power, you have to talk about where he came from. You have to explain what MMA is. In the context of pro-wrestling, I have no idea how I'd do that.

If I were running a wrestling promotion, I would love to have Chael Sonnen. I think Chael is one of the greatest men alive. He is awesome... but I have no idea how I'd book him without compromising my own product.

On the subject of Roy Nelson... I dig him, but I can't see him having any shot in WWE. With his physique, WWE is the LAST place I'd expect to see him. He struggles to be taken seriously in UFC looking like that, and there he can at least back it up. In Vince's world of bodybuilders, I'd be stunned to see him.

[stratusfaction]

I'm pretty upset about the latest releases. I can't believe they released Vance Archer!

Last thing I knew Jillian Hall was heading to FCW to train the future divas. Guess they decided to fire her instead. I have a feeling we will see her in TNA in the new year.

Tiffany, was actually my new favorite up and coming divas. She showed more promise and growth in the last past 8 months then Kelly Kelly has in 2 years. I'm sure the only reason she was fired was because of that altercation she had with her husband Drew McEntyre a couple months ago!

[crownsy]

I'm pretty upset about the latest releases. I can't believe they released Vance Archer!

Last thing I knew Jillian Hall was heading to FCW to train the future divas. Guess they decided to fire her instead. I have a feeling we will see her in TNA in the new year.

Tiffany, was actually my new favorite up and coming divas. She showed more promise and growth in the last past 8 months then Kelly Kelly has in 2 years. I'm sure the only reason she was fired was because of that altercation she had with her husband Drew McEntyre a couple months ago!

I think Jill will still end up as a trainer, they probley as i think someone mentioned already) just released her from her talent contract, similar to what the did with JR.

I'm cautiously optimistic this means they are going to end the brand split, since aside from Tiff, this looks like a clear out of smackdown's lower mid card.

I'd love for them to be done with the split in general, they don't have the talent to make it worth while anymore, and the fact that because of that everyone shows up on each show anyway is annoying.

Combine the World titles, Drop the US title for the cruiser weight belt so guys like bourne, kaval, jtg, tyson kidd ect have a purpose, and end the brand split, and I'd be a happy fan.

[brashleyholland]

You could certainly give a guy MMA influenced aesthetics (outfit, moves etc) but to me, if you're bringing in a 'star', and want to draw with his pre-existing star power, you have to talk about where he came from. You have to explain what MMA is. In the context of pro-wrestling, I have no idea how I'd do that.

If I were running a wrestling promotion, I would love to have Chael Sonnen. I think Chael is one of the greatest men alive. He is awesome... but I have no idea how I'd book him without compromising my own product.



The only way I can think of doing it would be something along the lines of "In MMA this guy only fights 3 times per year and gets a 3 month training camp. Now he has to fight three times a week on a moment's notice!"

Then you have the whole, "he's not used to getting hit by chairs, dropped on his head, losing by pinfall" thing. You could have an MMA guy going for rear-naked chokes and armbars, only to be pinned when he's locking them in. You'd also have the guy come in as a face, so that bad guys could low-blow or otherwise cheat to beat him after taking an ass-whupping.

There's plenty of Kryptonite out there for MMA guys to get a 'fish out of water' thing going on, I think.

[Linsolv]

I think what he means, Brashley, is that it begs the question -- why is it so great that he's from MMA? Essentially, it means that either you don't play up the MMA aspect, or you get egg on your face because you have to tell people, "This is a guy who really can kick butt" as opposed to... what, Randy Orton who puts people in the hospital? Or Sheamus, who broke a guy's neck and forced him to retire? Or... you tell people that Orton's punt doesn't REALLY hurt them, and Sheamus didn't REALLY cause Jamie Noble to be injured he's just fine in FCW.

Even though everyone knows that wrestling is fake, there's a certain suspension of disbelief that is ruined when they tell you it's fake.

[brashleyholland]

I think what he means, Brashley, is that it begs the question -- why is it so great that he's from MMA? Essentially, it means that either you don't play up the MMA aspect, or you get egg on your face because you have to tell people, "This is a guy who really can kick butt" as opposed to... what, Randy Orton who puts people in the hospital? Or Sheamus, who broke a guy's neck and forced him to retire? Or... you tell people that Orton's punt doesn't REALLY hurt them, and Sheamus didn't REALLY cause Jamie Noble to be injured he's just fine in FCW.

Even though everyone knows that wrestling is fake, there's a certain suspension of disbelief that is ruined when they tell you it's fake.

Oh I get the problem - but it has been done before. They did it with Shamrock, who had a decent run at the top end of the WWE for a while. They also did it to a lesser extent with Dan Severn and Steve Blackman. ECW did it with Taz (even going so far as having him choke out former UFC fighter Paul Varelans) and WCW did it with Tank Abbott, before they had him dancing with 3 count. If you push it, you could even say that they did it with Kurt Angle, another guy who went from a 'real' sport to a 'fake' one.

[Hashasheen]

Oh I get the problem - but it has been done before. They did it with Shamrock, who had a decent run at the top end of the WWE for a while. They also did it to a lesser extent with Dan Severn and Steve Blackman. ECW did it with Taz (even going so far as having him choke out former UFC fighter Paul Varelans) and WCW did it with Tank Abbott, before they had him dancing with 3 count. If you push it, you could even say that they did it with Kurt Angle, another guy who went from a 'real' sport to a 'fake' one.

WCW also did it with Jerry Flynn and Goldberg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqBvarUml90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43LjkIizWIU

[Self]

Taz and Goldberg don't weigh into my issue. I'm talking about bringing in pre-existing stars from another sport, into the world on pro-wrestling. Taz and Goldberg were brand new guys, given typical 'bad ass' gimmicks, with slight MMA flavouring. That's awesome. You can do that until the cows come home. Rock on.

Kurt Angle's a good guy to bring up. A star from another combat sport, whose past success was used to draw money. The difference there is that Amateur Wrestling fits really well in the kayfabe Pro Wrestling world. If you took Pro-Wrestling, made strikes illegal and fought to 1-counts, that's Amateur Wrestling. A unique sport with it's own rules. It's perfectly logical that Kurt excelled at that sport, then graduated to this one. MMA doesn't fit quite so well.

I didn't like how they portrayed Shamrock, Severn or Blackman. There was always the element of "these are real tough guys" that clashes with what WWF claimed to be. With Blackman at least they ventured into him being a weapon specialist (a skill most wrasslers wouldn't have) and having him kick ass in the Hardcore division.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying I can't think of a way to bring in Nelson/Chael/Ramage etc that I'd be comfortable with. If you ignore his past, there's less point bringing in a star. If you showcase his past, you risk exposing your product. I guess you could treat UFC like WCW back in the day. It's a "different fighting promotion". I doubt Vince would go that route though. He wouldn't want anyone to think he and Dana are in competition, seeing as he's getting his ass kicked in buyrates.

[Self]

I suppose what you could do is give 'em the old NXT treatment. Take Quentin "Rampage" Jackson. Rename him "Tim Wrist". Debut him as you would anyone else, with no mention of his past beyond an MMA inspired outfit, a couple of MMA moves, and the "Wrist is going on a rampage, King!" Cole-ism. Much like when Danielson came to WWE, Quentin's fans will check him out. That's the whole point, right? To lure back some MMA fans?

:D

[Slagaholic]

Would his finisher be a wrist lock?

[brashleyholland]

Sign me up for an "It's all in the Wrist" shirt! :D

[Candyman]

Taz and Goldberg don't weigh into my issue. I'm talking about bringing in pre-existing stars from another sport, into the world on pro-wrestling. Taz and Goldberg were brand new guys, given typical 'bad ass' gimmicks, with slight MMA flavouring. That's awesome. You can do that until the cows come home. Rock on.

Kurt Angle's a good guy to bring up. A star from another combat sport, whose past success was used to draw money. The difference there is that Amateur Wrestling fits really well in the kayfabe Pro Wrestling world. If you took Pro-Wrestling, made strikes illegal and fought to 1-counts, that's Amateur Wrestling. A unique sport with it's own rules. It's perfectly logical that Kurt excelled at that sport, then graduated to this one. MMA doesn't fit quite so well.

I didn't like how they portrayed Shamrock, Severn or Blackman. There was always the element of "these are real tough guys" that clashes with what WWF claimed to be. With Blackman at least they ventured into him being a weapon specialist (a skill most wrasslers wouldn't have) and having him kick ass in the Hardcore division.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying I can't think of a way to bring in Nelson/Chael/Ramage etc that I'd be comfortable with. If you ignore his past, there's less point bringing in a star. If you showcase his past, you risk exposing your product. I guess you could treat UFC like WCW back in the day. It's a "different fighting promotion". I doubt Vince would go that route though. He wouldn't want anyone to think he and Dana are in competition, seeing as he's getting his ass kicked in buyrates.

If you have an MMA guy that specializes in one area (punching, submissions, groundwork, etc) or has a specific style (boxing, jui-jitsu, etc), you could make it work by hyping him as a guy that's dangerous because he can knock you out or he can make you tap. You can emphasize aspects of a guy's past without exposing your product.

[Prophet]

Would his finisher be a wrist lock?

Obviously he'd come to the ring in a cowboy hat and poncho, and finish opponents with "Wristful of Dollars". :p

[ampulator]

I'm uncomfortable with MMA guys intersecting with Pro Wrestling promotions. It tends to bring up all sorts of "one is fake, one is real" comparisons, and I think the last thing you need in wrestling is to say 'this is fake'. I'm okay with Basketball players coming in, or football players, or even Boxers, because those are very different sports to what wrestling pretends to be, and so can comfortably exist side-by-side. MMA is just too similar, with the only difference being that wrestling is a highly stylized, fictional sport.

That isn't to say there aren't a lot of guys in MMA who would make great pro-wrestlers. Stennick mentioned some. You could certainly give a guy MMA influenced aesthetics (outfit, moves etc) but to me, if you're bringing in a 'star', and want to draw with his pre-existing star power, you have to talk about where he came from. You have to explain what MMA is. In the context of pro-wrestling, I have no idea how I'd do that.

If I were running a wrestling promotion, I would love to have Chael Sonnen. I think Chael is one of the greatest men alive. He is awesome... but I have no idea how I'd book him without compromising my own product.

On the subject of Roy Nelson... I dig him, but I can't see him having any shot in WWE. With his physique, WWE is the LAST place I'd expect to see him. He struggles to be taken seriously in UFC looking like that, and there he can at least back it up. In Vince's world of bodybuilders, I'd be stunned to see him.

I disagree. You want to know why? Vince loves freak shows. Roy Nelson looks like a freak show. That belly rub thing that would tickle Vince's funny bone so bad.

As for Kurt Angle and Ken Shamrock. They are truly unique. Kurt, for his part, didn't look like he belonged at the WWE at the time. Remember, WWE was Attitude. Kurt was hardly Attitude. Kurt was an All-American American, Jack Swagger before there was a Jack Swagger, clean cut, legitimate athlete. If there was a guy I thought that wouldn't fit, it would be him. If the NWA still existed, it would be seem like a better place for him. But he magically learned how to show charisma and talk on a mic. He has almost no training in that area. He went from typical babyface, to a cheating, lying, arrogant, egotistical heel. That's not easy to do.

They did push Ken Shamrock as a legitimate athlete in the beginning, but it was when they did the "OMG, he's crazy!!!" is when he really took off. He had this insane charisma. That's why Dan Severn didn't work out as well, who actually had more pro-wrestling experience at the time. Shamrock was just able to tap into WWE's Attitude crowd better.

[djthefunkchris]

I'm surprised my Shad and Gallows. Both guys had good size and I thought Gallows was very solid on the mic as a part of the SES and Shad always seemed more comfortable showing his personality than JTG.

I 100% agree, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them back at some point...

I really don't know about "the look" being about being big anymore in the WWE... at least not with the guys they seem more interested in pushing.

In my opinion it's hard to believe Miz or Morrison could actually beat either of those two, for example. I hope I'm wrong, but to me it looks like the WWE's roster keeps getting smaller and smaller in size, meaning in the "look" category. Anyone over 6'6" would look almost Giant sized right about now, outside of the obvious in Taker/Kane/Show. I'm afraid "The Look" is changing, or starting to change, or just downright has and no one has thought about that at all.

Not that I think it's a good thing though.

[lazorbeak]

Sheamus already being a world champ would tend to work against this premise, though. It's still far, far easier to push a big guy as a credible threat. Luke Gallows is really the only surprising big man release. He actually reminds me of a young Glenn Jacobs in that he has decent skills and charisma but doesn't immediately have that look that screams "future champ."

[crownsy]

Sheamus already being a world champ would tend to work against this premise, though. It's still far, far easier to push a big guy as a credible threat. Luke Gallows is really the only surprising big man release. He actually reminds me of a young Glenn Jacobs in that he has decent skills and charisma but doesn't immediately have that look that screams "future champ."

I liked Luke, but where on earth was this charisma?

He was just generic big man bully to me....

[Self]

I liked Luke, but where on earth was this charisma?

He was just generic big man bully to me....

I wouldn't call it 'charisma' but I thought he was pretty solid on the microphone. Good voice. Seemed comfortable.

[SeanMcFly]

Is it just me, or has this Edge / Kane match for tonight turned into a heel / heel match?

[Johnny Fenoli]

Who are some celebrities/athletes that are known/assumed/rumored fans of wrestling, that'd make interesting/good wrestlers/personalties?

(particularly athletes; I'm making a mod to add on to other mods, for fun.)

IE:
King Mo Lawal
Michael Clark Duncan
Rampage
Shawne Merriman
Shaquille O'Neal
Mike Tyson
Snoop Dogg
ICP
Eminem
Ashton Kutcher
Mikey Rourke
DeAngelo Williams
Adam Sandler
Regis Philbin
Donald Trump
Kevin Smith
Lebron James
Rasheed Wallace
Marlon Wayans
Bill Clinton

[Jaysin]

I just realized Edge is a 9 time world champion. He won his first world title under 4 years ago...that seems like a lot.

I kind of hope Kane retains tonight. I might give an attempt at watching Survivor Series at some point this week, but I dunno yet.

[TakerNGN74]

The current plan is to have Kane hold the title until May at least.

[MrCanada]

So the card has convinced me to order Survivor Series... Kaval and Danielson matches have me hooked (Bryan is curtain jerking) + Natalya hopefully winning and the Cena fallout is all interesting to me.

I'm praying Barrett wins the belt cheap, then turns, smiles, and hands the belt to Cena as garbage flies into the ring and kids cry.... I can dream.

[Johnny Fenoli]

So the card has convinced me to order Survivor Series... Kaval and Danielson matches have me hooked (Bryan is curtain jerking) + Natalya hopefully winning and the Cena fallout is all interesting to me.

I'm praying Barrett wins the belt cheap, then turns, smiles, and hands the belt to Cena as garbage flies into the ring and kids cry.... I can dream.

I would cyber high five you.

[MrCanada]

Bryan/Dibiase was okay. Not as good as his stuff vs. The Miz or Ziggler, but still good. I can only wonder who is next for Bryan. I hope maybe they do a Mentor/Protoge program with Bryan/Regal.

But anyway.... The Miz is how cutting a promo. The chance of him cashing in tonight is also a good possibility. Would be cool if maybe he cashed it in on Kane, SD could use the influx of star power. Edge/Mysterio/Undertaker vs. The Miz would all be fresh matches so...

[SaySo]

^not sure if that can happen since both Raw and SmackDown had MITB. I would assume the Raw MITB winner can only cash it on the Raw main event champion, and SD winner on SD main event champion.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Striker's baseball history knowledge not on par with his wrestling...

[The Celt]

Miami...SUCKS...as a crowd

Edit: But they come alive for the Big Show? The hell???

Edit X2: Cody Rhodes is gold tonight

Edit X3: I marked out for the whole Diva's section

[ampulator]

Miami...SUCKS...as a crowd

Edit: But they come alive for the Big Show? The hell???

~Well...it's the BIG SHOW!~

[MrCanada]

I agree with Miami being a terrible crowd. So far have cheered for MVP and Big Show now... thats it.

[The Celt]

Edge/Kane for Trash of the Night

Edit: I'd personally murder this crowd if it wasn't already dead. Damnit Miami you'd didn't deserve this PPV at all!

[The Two]

Edge/Kane for Trash of the Night
What exactly happened?

[Johnny Fenoli]

to reiterate... this crowd literally put me to sleep for a minute... it's like white noise......

[Johnny Fenoli]

Wow.... worst PPV of the year, complete with epic failure of ending.........

[sabataged]

Wow.... worst PPV of the year, complete with epic failure of ending.........

agree 1000%

[The Celt]

-10/10

Minus Five Stars

Fire Wwe Creative, Every Single One Of Them

[Johnny Fenoli]

-10/10

Minus Five Stars

Fire Wwe Creative, Every Single One Of Them

Seriously if this was TEW, that show would have struggled to get a C-

[The Two]

Not watching it myself - What was the finish to Barrett - Orton?

[The Celt]

For those of you who didn't shell out for the main event or weren't bothered enough to stream it..I'll describe it to you:

15 minutes of headlocks in-front of a zombie, mindless crowd that wouldn't have popped if the Rock showed up, topped off by an anti-climax that makes Hogan/Sting Starrcade '97 look acceptable. ZERO DRAMA, ZERO EMOTION.

And an undercard who decided not to be motivated in the slightest despite what had been shaping up to be WWE's biggest Non-WM PPV in years save the opening bout and the 5 on 5 match.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Not watching it myself - What was the finish to Barrett - Orton?

Barrett abusive towards Cena, Cena gets mad... pushes Barrett... RKO. Cena fired. Crowd never bothered to wake from their naps.

[The Two]

For those of you who didn't shell out for the main event or weren't bothered enough to stream it..I'll describe it to you:

15 minutes of headlocks in-front of a zombie, mindless crowd that wouldn't have popped if the Rock showed up, topped off by an anti-climax that makes Hogan/Sting Starrcade '97 look acceptable. ZERO DRAMA, ZERO EMOTION.
So... what? Barrett pins Orton clean, new World Champ, Cena free of Nexus, Cena does happy face?

[Johnny Fenoli]

Somewhere in this world Roddy Piper is shaking his head wondering... I cut THAT promo, for THAT?

[The Two]

Barrett abusive towards Cena, Cena gets mad... pushes Barrett... RKO. Cena fired. Crowd never bothered to wake from their naps.
So the complete opposite of what I just said. Cena fired and the crowd doesn't care? Wow.

So how does Cena get his job back then?

[Wrestling Century]

I'm sure that the PPV wasn't that bad. The card looked like it was going to be the best PPV of the year.

[Prophet]

I'm saddened that one of my biggest highlights was seeing Tyler Reks become something of a force. I mean, while there were some moments, the overall event was passable, at best. And the ending was horrific. So many possibilities, and that's what they went with?

And for reasons I can't explain, that hug with Cole is irritating me. lol

[The Celt]

Nope, we get treated to 3 minutes of Orton looking dazed and confused before he leaves awkward (but not before Cena hugs it out with him). The next 6 minutes is Cena waltzing around the arena saying goodbye to the fans as the commentators say nothing, as if it's as shoot or something, which is incredible sad/dumb since the damn hype video make it look like Cena had cancer/was a death's door by being so damn similar to the Undertaker/Michaels II video as well as the Eddie Guerrero RIP tribute video. (No I'm not exaggerating, this video had childhood photos of Cena and everything).

I'm actually mad at this PPV, the sheer amount of wasted opportunity. Having read ideas by fans it's clear this angle could have been amazing whether Cena turned heel or not. Regardless WWE totally and utterly dropped the ball on this PPV.

[Johnny Fenoli]

I'm sure that the PPV wasn't that bad. The card looked like it was going to be the best PPV of the year.


yeah, thought so too... until I watched it.

[Wrestling Century]

So wait, does this mean that John Cena really won't be coming back to the WWE?

[The Celt]

I'm sure that the PPV wasn't that bad. The card looked like it was going to be the best PPV of the year.

If you'd watched you'd know it sucked, sucked mighty hard. Once again, opening bout and the 5 on 5 were good, the rest was shameful, particularly from guys who are supposed to be the main eventers of the company.

Edit: Sorry, I'll give the divas their due as well...ish. The match wasn't anything special. Nattie winning and Beth returning was.

[brashleyholland]

So wait, does this mean that John Cena really won't be coming back to the WWE?

Jeeezus....

Yes, and the Undertaker is really a zombie.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Jeeezus....

Yes, and the Undertaker is really a zombie.

God, I wish we had sigs.......... that would so be there.

[The Celt]

So wait, does this mean that John Cena really won't be coming back to the WWE?

He'll be back within the month, guaranteed. Apparently creative's big idea to make this angle work is to make the single few minutes look like a shoot when even a child could predict it's a work.

[Wrestling Century]

Jeeezus....

Yes, and the Undertaker is really a zombie.

You know what, screw you. I asked a question. Apparently they showed a video before the match they was John Cena's career highlights or something like that, and that the WWE treated this like it was a retirement match for John Cena. At least, that's what I gathered from this thread. You didn't need to be so damn rude.

[Wrestling Century]

He'll be back within the month, guaranteed. Apparently creative's big idea to make this angle work is to make the single few minutes look like a shoot when even a child could predict it's a work.

That's what I thought. But with the big video package that played before the match I wasn't so sure. If that's true, then IMO they made that video package for nothing.

[brashleyholland]

You know what, screw you. I asked a question. Apparently they showed a video before the match they was John Cena's career highlights or something like that, and that the WWE treated this like it was a retirement match for John Cena. At least, that's what I gathered from this thread. You didn't need to be so damn rude.

Kane makes that fire come up from the ringposts all by himself you know. With magic. :eek:

[Wrestling Century]

Kane makes that fire come up from the ringposts all by himself you know. With magic. :eek:

**** you. Sure, go ahead and insult my intelligence why don't you. I almost never get angry. But you just pissed me off. Troll.

[The Two]

Kane makes that fire come up from the ringposts all by himself you know. With magic. :eek:
Win.

That does sound like the worst of all possible outcomes. What are everybody's thoughts on how they'll explain Cena getting his job back? Do you think it'll just be a simple re-hiring by Vince / Steph / Anonymous GM, or something more original?

[Johnny Fenoli]

Kane makes that fire come up from the ringposts all by himself you know. With magic. :eek:

I know you're bustin' his balls...

but that Gobbledy Gooker was really a giant wrestling turkey right?

[Wrestling Century]

Okay, I'm just about done with The Dog Pound. Whenever I post in The Dog Pound, I almost always get flamed or spammed or insulted or trolled. And then almost everybody else just goes along with it.

Win.

That does sound like the worst of all possible outcomes. What are everybody's thoughts on how they'll explain Cena getting his job back? Do you think it'll just be a simple re-hiring by Vince / Steph / Anonymous GM, or something more original?

I doubt that it will be something more original, because IMO the finish to the main event tonight was one of the most unoriginal things ever.

[brashleyholland]

I know you're bustin' his balls...

but that Gobbledy Gooker was really a giant wrestling turkey right?

No.

He was a DANCING wrestling turkey.

[Bigpapa42]

Okay, I'm just about done with The Dog Pound. Whenever I post in The Dog Pound, I almost always get flamed or spammed or insulted or trolled. And then almost everybody else just goes along with it.

That wasn't getting trolled or flamed. It was getting a sarcastic answer to a question that seemed... well... really naive.

What exactly would make you think the Cena ending wasn't just an angle? What would make it seem like a legitimate good-bye, as opposed to Cena selling the "fired" angle?

Consider it logically for a moment... If Cena was actually done with the WWE, rather than simply taking some time away (at most), would they have his big finish to a massively successful WWE career be a match where he isn't actually a competitor? Why would they have a some kind of retirement, loser-leaves-town match where he can be defeated and put someone over in a big way?

Basically, you got a sarcastic answer to a question that didn't need to be asked. If you took a moment to consider it, the answer should have been really really obvious.

[Wrestling Century]

That wasn't getting trolled or flamed. It was getting a sarcastic answer to a question that seemed... well... really naive.

What exactly would make you think the Cena ending wasn't just an angle? What would make it seem like a legitimate good-bye, as opposed to Cena selling the "fired" angle?

Consider it logically for a moment... If Cena was actually done with the WWE, rather than simply taking some time away (at most), would they have his big finish to a massively successful WWE career be a match where he isn't actually a competitor? Why would they have a some kind of retirement, loser-leaves-town match where he can be defeated and put someone over in a big way?

Basically, you got a sarcastic answer to a question that didn't need to be asked. If you took a moment to consider it, the answer should have been really really obvious.

I didn't see the PPV, so I was just going by what people said in the thread. Geez, thanks for pointing out that I'm stupid.

[MrOnu]

Survivor Series was average, but my opinion might be biased, there's so many things in the card I just didn't care about to begin with. On the other hand, the PPV was supposed to be all about the main event and it lived up to that expectations.

Bryan/Dibiase : You know what struck me watching this ? Maryse and Ted are not even remontely close to being a couple or even just a unit. They look so distant most of the time, they are not believable on this aspect and it really drags the angle down. It's not really what Ted needed to come out of his shell. Match was good for an opener, poor Ted looks to be stuck in midcard limbo for a long time if he doesn't find his persona quickly.

The more I hear Michael Cole with anyone but Lawler, the more I think Lawler is the problem. He doesn't know how to respond to Cole unlike Striker or Matthews. Sometimes it just feels like Lawler doesn't even care anymore.

Poor Shaemus. From being World champion to losing clean to John Morrison. Good match though. Good match between Ziggler and Kaval, would have stole the show given the same amount of time Ziggler got with Bryan last month. Survivor match was an okay filler with everyone doing their part (bonus points for DASHING Cody Rhodes in this one). I absolutely dislike Rey Mysterio, it pains me to see him win everytime, but I'll admit the match filled its purpose.

At this point, I honestly stopped watching for some time. I didn't pay money for this, but my time is still more valuable than a diva match or any Kane match for that matter. Of course I came back for Santino. That guy is pure comedy gold and I wouldn't miss a second of his antics.

The main event was what I expected. Wade Barrett has very generic and rather limited offense, he's not ready to main event even less carry the promotion, so I expected a lot of restholds, punches and kicks, which is what we got. Match was a bit too long though as it really exposed the weakness in Barrett. Logically speaking, both endings (free or fired) were possibles. You could create really good scenarios with both and I was curious to see which one the WWE would take. The finish was a tad unoriginal, but I think overall they played well the emotional aspect of this. Would have been better with a crowd not dead, but that's another story. Cena stayed true to his persona with tends to indicate that he will be a face upon his return... and that's when the twist could happen. If he comes back exactly as he was, I agree, all this story was a waste of time. Something has to change, but he doesn't even have to turn heel, he just needs a new side in his persona.

[ampulator]

I didn't see the PPV, so I was just going by what people said in the thread. Geez, thanks for pointing out that I'm stupid.
dude, BP was just doing constructive criticism. Be a little less thin-skinned. :p

[SaySo]

Win.

That does sound like the worst of all possible outcomes. What are everybody's thoughts on how they'll explain Cena getting his job back? Do you think it'll just be a simple re-hiring by Vince / Steph / Anonymous GM, or something more original?

A Masked Wrestler named "Mr. Universe".

[angeldelayette]

Win.

That does sound like the worst of all possible outcomes. What are everybody's thoughts on how they'll explain Cena getting his job back? Do you think it'll just be a simple re-hiring by Vince / Steph / Anonymous GM, or something more original?

It will be the return of Charlie Brown From Outta Town. He is Cena's friend who is upset that Cena was wrongly removed from the company. Wade Barrett and The Nexus will do their best to prove that Charlie Brown is actually Cena wearing a Halloween Mask. When The Nexus actually unmasks him it will be revealed to be Brad Armstrong and the wrong Charlie Brown. Charlie Brown will defeat Wade Barrett in a match where John Cena gets reinstated if Charlie Brown wins and he must unmask if he loses.

[Bigpapa42]

I didn't see the PPV, so I was just going by what people said in the thread. Geez, thanks for pointing out that I'm stupid.

Yes, because saying that your question was naive is clearly calling you stupid.

I don't see anything posted in this thread about the PPV that really should have made you assume that the Cena good-bye was legitimate. Again, my point was simply that you got a response to your question that you disliked because you asked a question that really didn't need to be asked. Simple as that.

I was trying to offer you a partial solution to what you perceive as persecution. But if you'd rather look at everything as a personal attack, so be it.

As for the pay per view, I have to say it was really disappointing overall. I ended up ordering it as it there were a few matches that intrigued me, but had to cancel due to technical issues. Seeing the rest of the event made me happy that I ended up canceling.

[Prophet]

Win.

That does sound like the worst of all possible outcomes. What are everybody's thoughts on how they'll explain Cena getting his job back? Do you think it'll just be a simple re-hiring by Vince / Steph / Anonymous GM, or something more original?

I think they left wiggle room. Technically speaking ... Cena still has a job. There's an article summarizing the main event on WWE.com, which I went to, to see if the entire page was a memorial to the passing of Cena's career. I saw the article, which had a title with a question mark, so I clicked, and in the first paragraph, it says

(and I quote!) "Despite the threat of termination, Cena, acting as special guest referee, refused to compromise his integrity in order to keep his job. Instead, he called the WWE Title Match straight down the middle, allowing champion Randy Orton to retain – and possibly ending his own career in the process"

and it dawned on me. Barrett said if he lost, he'd fire Cena on the spot. Since he was run off with the Nexus post match, he technically never did. So essentially everything that happened post match was unnecessary, on top of being lame. lol

[Hyde Hill]

How about the most unoriginal one possible? They make it that Cena is fired from RAW so he shows up on Smackdown to boost the ratings there at their new home. Cena vs Edge and Kane vs Taker for WM. Orton vs HHH on the raw side.

[PeterHilton]

and it dawned on me. Barrett said if he lost, he'd fire Cena on the spot. Since he was run off with the Nexus post match, he technically never did. So essentially everything that happened post match was unnecessary, on top of being lame. lol

To me,that just means they'll run the actual angel where Cena is fired on Raw

How about the most unoriginal one possible? They make it that Cena is fired from RAW so he shows up on Smackdown to boost the ratings there at their new home. Cena vs Edge and Kane vs Taker for WM. Orton vs HHH on the raw side.

Terrible. But no less unoriginal than the way the show ended

SS is usually supposed to be one of the BIG 4PPVs of the year, but that card didn't look that hot to me and -reading results - I realize that it wasn't the card, it's jut that the WWE is soooooo frickin predictable/boring that it's damn near impossible to get excited about anything they do

There were several ways to end that Cena/Nexus storyline; the WWE picked the least interesting.

[UkWrestleFan]

Wow.

Was going to watch Survivor Series tonight but not sure I'll bother now. Still, I'm curious what'll happen on RAW. Probably something glaringly obvious like Nexus trying to publically fire Cena but Vince returns to TV and re-hires Cena.

Boring, unimaginative rubbish.

[jbergey_2005]

What makes you think this storyline is over? There will be a swerve coming. They cant be this uncreative.

[juggaloninjalee]

How about the most unoriginal one possible? They make it that Cena is fired from RAW so he shows up on Smackdown to boost the ratings there at their new home. Cena vs Edge and Kane vs Taker for WM. Orton vs HHH on the raw side.

I honestly think it is predictable but it isn't a bad idea. Makes complete sense in all ways possible.

[jbergey_2005]

They book this crap so over the top it doesnt even make sense anymore. What ever happened to the good old days when Randy Savage would attack Ricky Steamboat during the match crush his larynx and create one of the best feuds of its time.

Nexus taking control of Cena, McMahon being in the hospital, and some unknown emailing GM is just plain ridiculous.

[PeterHilton]

I honestly think it is predictable but it isn't a bad idea. Makes complete sense in all ways possible.

No..the fact that is IS so very predictable makes it a terrible idea

Nexus was the most original and captivating storyline the E has done in a long time. It started out gangbusters, sputtered, gained back some momentum by allowing Barrett to actually beat Cena and put him in a position where fans wondered "what's gonna happen?"

If this is the way it ends and if Cena just showed up on SD it would be the weakest mos unoriginal thing possible for them to do.

[crownsy]

That wasn't getting trolled or flamed. It was getting a sarcastic answer to a question that seemed... well... really naive.

What exactly would make you think the Cena ending wasn't just an angle? What would make it seem like a legitimate good-bye, as opposed to Cena selling the "fired" angle?

Consider it logically for a moment... If Cena was actually done with the WWE, rather than simply taking some time away (at most), would they have his big finish to a massively successful WWE career be a match where he isn't actually a competitor? Why would they have a some kind of retirement, loser-leaves-town match where he can be defeated and put someone over in a big way?

Basically, you got a sarcastic answer to a question that didn't need to be asked. If you took a moment to consider it, the answer should have been really really obvious.


No, you two were kinda being dicks. Sarcasticly ripping someone and pretending there too stupid to know wrestlings fake is a troll, you were baiting him, fine, but don't act all innocent when he comes back on ya

Anyway, I thought the undercard was really good, but the Kane-edge no contest and utterly predictable ending ruined it.

In a way, I'm happy that they at Least didn't drag on he CDMA nexus stuff. It had a chance to be great, but they never committed to it..cena was just kinda hanging around with nexus every once in awhile, they were too worried putting him in a nexus shirt and having him have to beat down guys in the company would turn the kiddies off to much merch I guess...

Anyway,

[juggaloninjalee]

No..the fact that is IS so very predictable makes it a terrible idea

Nexus was the most original and captivating storyline the E has done in a long time. It started out gangbusters, sputtered, gained back some momentum by allowing Barrett to actually beat Cena and put him in a position where fans wondered "what's gonna happen?"

If this is the way it ends and if Cena just showed up on SD it would be the weakest mos unoriginal thing possible for them to do.

Cena ending up on Smackdown increases ratings there. It also gives them a main event at Wrestlemania that was rumored to be title vs title a few months ago. Heavyweight Champ John Cena vs WWE Champ Randy Orton to unify the titles.

It makes sense from a business stand point I think.

I will admit I wanted Cena to embrace the Nexus stable and become heel. Still though we don't know what is going to happen. I know I am anxious to find out and until the Nexus showed up I didn't care what happened with Cena lately.

[crownsy]

Stupid iPhone not allowing me to edit lol

All I had left was I hope they do something more creative than just tossing cena to smackdown, but I have little faith in creative these days

If it ends the brandsplit though, it's somewhat worthwhile

Dolph-kaval should get another, longer ppv match too, I was digging it even if Mia wasn't

Randomly on that point, what a god awful sporting event town that is. I was watching the celtics heat game a few weeks ago, and that crowd checked out when they were down by 13 In the third. I mean, I know it's Mia and there's a ton of nightlife but damn, you have lebron's and dwade on your team that's not some insurmountable lead. As a celtics fan I was happy to see 30% of the crowd leave though, when they made he predictable run later, crowd sounded like the clippers :)

[matt1986]

Cena ending up on Smackdown increases ratings there. It also gives them a main event at Wrestlemania that was rumored to be title vs title a few months ago. Heavyweight Champ John Cena vs WWE Champ Randy Orton to unify the titles.

It makes sense from a business stand point I think.

I will admit I wanted Cena to embrace the Nexus stable and become heel. Still though we don't know what is going to happen. I know I am anxious to find out and until the Nexus showed up I didn't care what happened with Cena lately.

I'm pretty sure I remember the GM saying that Cena would be fired from the WWE, not just from Raw (ie: he wouldn't be going to Smackdown). The Nexus/Cena angle isn't over yet... and as much as everyone complains, I bet you all still watch Raw to find out what will happen with Cena.

Honestly, it wouldn't have mattered what the ending at SS was, everyone still would've complained. Screwy referee job by Cena handing him the title... I'm sure everyone would think that was predictible as well?

[PeterHilton]

No, you two were kinda being dicks. Sarcasticly ripping someone and pretending there too stupid to know wrestlings fake is a troll, you were baiting him, fine, but don't act all innocent when he comes back on ya

Go back and read the thread. BP didn't say anything rude. A couple of other people made some sarcastic comments but this reply..


Basically, you got a sarcastic answer to a question that didn't need to be asked. If you took a moment to consider it, the answer should have been really really obvious.

...isn't being a dick in any way.

[PeterHilton]

I'm pretty sure I remember the GM saying that Cena would be fired from the WWE, not just from Raw (ie: he wouldn't be going to Smackdown). The Nexus/Cena angle isn't over yet... and as much as everyone complains, I bet you all still watch Raw to find out what will happen with Cena.

Honestly, it wouldn't have mattered what the ending at SS was, everyone still would've complained. Screwy referee job by Cena handing him the title... I'm sure everyone would think that was predictible as well?

Yeah yeah..the new guy bashes internet wrestling fans without reading through the thread or knowing anyone enough to really know what their actual opinions are

How predictable :rolleyes:

[brashleyholland]

No, you two were kinda being dicks. Sarcasticly ripping someone and pretending there too stupid to know wrestlings fake is a troll, you were baiting him, fine, but don't act all innocent when he comes back on ya



I'm not acting innocent - he asked a stupid question and got a stupid answer. Then he blew a gasket so he got another one. It's the internet - what did he expect?

Hey - I've been ripped myself on here - aaaages ago I asked a genuine question, something along the lines of were X and Y wrestling brothers (I think Jack and Gerry Briscoe) actually related (y'know, because wrestling *never* bills two guys as 'brothers' unless they're actual blood relatives!).

Now, I fully accept that on a wrestling board, that probably came off as a stupid question - but I didn't call the Whaaaaaambulance, start telling people "**** you" or "Screw you" and generally bemoaning people for making me look stupid. And if I did, I'd fully expect a few people to have a chuckle at my expense. That's how the internet works. If he's going to get his knickers in a twist over something so trivial, I'd suggest that the internet is probably not the place for him to be be spending his time.

Are you telling me that if I'd asked the genuine question "Hey, you guys remember when Shane popped up on WCW Nitro and bought the company out from under his dad's nose...where did he get the money from? And how come Vince let them all on WWF TV?" that you wouldn't have been tempted to take a pop at me? Just a little? :D

[djthefunkchris]

I 100% agree, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them back at some point...

I really don't know about "the look" being about being big anymore in the WWE... at least not with the guys they seem more interested in pushing.

In my opinion it's hard to believe Miz or Morrison could actually beat either of those two, for example. I hope I'm wrong, but to me it looks like the WWE's roster keeps getting smaller and smaller in size, meaning in the "look" category. Anyone over 6'6" would look almost Giant sized right about now, outside of the obvious in Taker/Kane/Show. I'm afraid "The Look" is changing, or starting to change, or just downright has and no one has thought about that at all.

Not that I think it's a good thing though.

Sheamus already being a world champ would tend to work against this premise, though. It's still far, far easier to push a big guy as a credible threat. Luke Gallows is really the only surprising big man release. He actually reminds me of a young Glenn Jacobs in that he has decent skills and charisma but doesn't immediately have that look that screams "future champ."

Yet, Morrison beats him (a much smaller opponant). Which I didn't know before the PPV was going to happen. However, it makes the discussion a little more relevant then it was when I first said something. Right now, only a theory. I'd like to see it get squashed to be honest.

[juggaloninjalee]

I'm pretty sure I remember the GM saying that Cena would be fired from the WWE, not just from Raw (ie: he wouldn't be going to Smackdown). The Nexus/Cena angle isn't over yet... and as much as everyone complains, I bet you all still watch Raw to find out what will happen with Cena.

Honestly, it wouldn't have mattered what the ending at SS was, everyone still would've complained. Screwy referee job by Cena handing him the title... I'm sure everyone would think that was predictible as well?

I completely agree with this.

[PeterHilton]

I completely agree with this.

you're the one who already admitted you defend all things wrestling no matter what :rolleyes:

[juggaloninjalee]

you're the one who already admitted you defend all things wrestling no matter what :rolleyes:

I enjoy wrestling and I would have enjoyed Survivor Series. I agree with someone saying that no matter what happened last night people online would say that it is so predictable. Everything has been done I think in wrestling.

[crownsy]

Go back and read the thread. BP didn't say anything rude. A couple of other people made some sarcastic comments but this reply..



...isn't being a dick in any way.

Where did i say i was talking to BP, the third person who posted about WC and was the only one trying to bring a bit of sanity to the discussion?

[crownsy]

I'm not acting innocent - he asked a stupid question and got a stupid answer. Then he blew a gasket so he got another one. It's the internet - what did he expect?

Hey - I've been ripped myself on here - aaaages ago I asked a genuine question, something along the lines of were X and Y wrestling brothers (I think Jack and Gerry Briscoe) actually related (y'know, because wrestling *never* bills two guys as 'brothers' unless they're actual blood relatives!).

Now, I fully accept that on a wrestling board, that probably came off as a stupid question - but I didn't call the Whaaaaaambulance, start telling people "**** you" or "Screw you" and generally bemoaning people for making me look stupid. And if I did, I'd fully expect a few people to have a chuckle at my expense. That's how the internet works. If he's going to get his knickers in a twist over something so trivial, I'd suggest that the internet is probably not the place for him to be be spending his time.

Are you telling me that if I'd asked the genuine question "Hey, you guys remember when Shane popped up on WCW Nitro and bought the company out from under his dad's nose...where did he get the money from? And how come Vince let them all on WWF TV?" that you wouldn't have been tempted to take a pop at me? Just a little? :D


Someone doath protest to much.

All i said was that i think it's kind of laughable that you guys ripped him then got all defensive when he called you on it, no need for a wall of text :D

If you want to rib a guy, fine, this is the Net not knitting class but then don't pretend he was the guy who took it the wrong way. He took it exactly as it was intended, making fun of him.

[brashleyholland]

All i said was that i think it's kind of laughable that you guys ripped him then got all defensive when he called you on it

I didn't get defensive - when he called me on it, I ripped him again.

no need for a wall of text :D

Yeah, I type how I talk...too much - I think it's genetic :D

[MrOnu]

I'm pretty sure I remember the GM saying that Cena would be fired from the WWE, not just from Raw (ie: he wouldn't be going to Smackdown).

I remember that too. Maybe we have a way too good memory for the WWE creative team though.

[brashleyholland]

I remember that too. Maybe we have a way too good memory for the WWE creative team though.

Does he have any movies coming up or anything? At least that would give them time to come up with a decent explanation as to why he can come back?

[crownsy]

Ya you guys are right they said "the wwe" i remember us talking about when the raw gm got the power to decide what Teddy Long does with his workers :)

I dunno, like I said earlier, I'm kinda just glad we didn't get a lame crazy finish. If they don't have the stones to commit to a proper cena in nexus angle, which they clearly didn't, I'd rather just move on.

What a waste that was for them, barring some awesome swerve I don't believe for a second they can come up with.

I get that they wanted to protect cena as a face and merch machine by not really commiting to him
as a full member, but the little things like him getting his own gear, music, and never being ordered to participate in nexus babyface beatdowns against his will ruined that angle for me...

[Bigpapa42]

I honestly have little faith on the WWE delivering something that makes this really pay off. I will give them the opportunity, but I think its going to disappoint. Something with McMahon or the mystery GM seem likely, as does the possibility of Cena taking time off and coming back for RR or a bit later, with some lame and predictable reason.

[LoNdOn]

I personally didn't think the ending of the Orton/Barrett match was predictable. I was sure there was going to be some screwy finish but instead, they had Cena call it down the middle.

Now even though to me I didn't expect it, I would have still much rather seen what I expected to happen.

[Self]

Haven't watched WWE in a few months (except for a couple of Dolph/Bryan matches and a solitary episode of Superstars) but the card compelled me to check out this show. It was alright. The first 3 matches were good, if a little similar. Loved Ted's music. Kaval didn't really impress me. JoMo's beard is amazing. The Survivor Series match disappointed through sheer pointlessness, and lack of drama for the ending. Cody's tantrum was ace (as was his borrowing a couple of Goldust's moves) Women were alright. Good for Nattie. Skipped Kane/Edge. Tag match was dull. Fast forwarded the main event until the finish.

Meh. Not awful. Not something that'll get me back watching WWE, but I've seen worse shows.

[ampulator]

To me,that just means they'll run the actual angel where Cena is fired on Raw



Terrible. But no less unoriginal than the way the show ended

SS is usually supposed to be one of the BIG 4PPVs of the year, but that card didn't look that hot to me and -reading results - I realize that it wasn't the card, it's jut that the WWE is soooooo frickin predictable/boring that it's damn near impossible to get excited about anything they do

There were several ways to end that Cena/Nexus storyline; the WWE picked the least interesting.
I don't want to be snarky, but you understand how I feel now. Now you can sit next to me and complain about Cena too. :p

[PeterHilton]

I don't want to be snarky, but you understand how I feel now. Now you can sit next to me and complain about Cena too. :p

That's not a Cena issue though. That's a writing/booking issue.

[PeterHilton]

Where did i say i was talking to BP, the third person who posted about WC and was the only one trying to bring a bit of sanity to the discussion?

This is what you quoted..

That wasn't getting trolled or flamed. It was getting a sarcastic answer to a question that seemed... well... really naive.

What exactly would make you think the Cena ending wasn't just an angle? What would make it seem like a legitimate good-bye, as opposed to Cena selling the "fired" angle?

Consider it logically for a moment... If Cena was actually done with the WWE, rather than simply taking some time away (at most), would they have his big finish to a massively successful WWE career be a match where he isn't actually a competitor? Why would they have a some kind of retirement, loser-leaves-town match where he can be defeated and put someone over in a big way?

Basically, you got a sarcastic answer to a question that didn't need to be asked. If you took a moment to consider it, the answer should have been really really obvious.

This is how you replied..

No, you two were kinda being dicks. Sarcasticly ripping someone and pretending there too stupid to know wrestlings fake is a troll, you were baiting him, fine, but don't act all innocent when he comes back on ya

Anyway, I thought the undercard was really good, but the Kane-edge no contest and utterly predictable ending ruined it.

In a way, I'm happy that they at Least didn't drag on he CDMA nexus stuff. It had a chance to be great, but they never committed to it..cena was just kinda hanging around with nexus every once in awhile, they were too worried putting him in a nexus shirt and having him have to beat down guys in the company would turn the kiddies off to much merch I guess...

Anyway,

I apologize for any misunderstanding but when you said "You two etc" I thought you were directing your post at BP since he was one you directly replied to

[ampulator]

I know. I was just being snarky. You now understand my frustrations with the WWE. It's just that you realized it much later than I did. ;) In any case, I thought the crowd reaction was fine. What did you expect? WWE Attitude Era yelps? It is what it is. Second, ever since the end of the national wars, different fans from different areas have liked different things.

[Slim Jim]

Now, I'll qualify what I'm about to say straight off and say that I haven't watched Raw for about two months now (at Uni, no TV/time) so perhaps that changes things BUT...

When I read that the stipulation was either A) Cena is freed from Nexus, keeps his job and the guy he's feuding with has the WWE title or B) Cena is "fired" from WWE programming, option A seemed far more likely to me. What went down on the actual shows to spark the number of people saying that this way was the predictable outcome?

[PeterHilton]

I know. I was just being snarky. You now understand my frustrations with the WWE. It's just that you realized it much later than I did. ;)

No..let's be clear..I ALWAYS understood your frustrations. I'm not a huge fan of the product right now either.

I just A) always understood their reasoning and didn't see how their current product put them on a path towards failure and B) dont believe for a second that the WWE power structure somehow tried to not make Cena TOO POPULAR for fear of him going to film movies (I thought that was a dumb notion then, still do now)

For instance, even with this booking, juggalo has a point: if Cena ends up on SD it has some merit from a business standpoint. It wouldn't make ME personally want to watch, and if WM was headlined by Cena and Orton playing the exact same characters they've played the last few years, i wouldn't buy it.

But, yes...i see your frustration. :)

[PeterHilton]

When I read that the stipulation was either A) Cena is freed from Nexus, keeps his job and the guy he's feuding with has the WWE title or B) Cena is "fired" from WWE programming, option A seemed far more likely to me. What went down on the actual shows to spark the number of people saying that this way was the predictable outcome?

Maybe predictable is a bad choice of adjectives.

It's more like "they took the easy way out"

Cena is SUCH a goody two shoes and for him to help Barrett win, he would've had to do something out nof character, something that might have put a really interesting spin on who he is...the fact that he does get mixed response and the fact that he would've 'cheated' to screw Orton over in order to save himself...

It finally would've added some shades of gray to a John Cena character that hes been far too black & white for a long while.

It may have even started him down the road to a slow burn as a full on heel, and that might've been very entertaining.

[Stennick]

To me the non predictable route was to....

Barrett hits his finish on Orton, Orton kicks out.

Orton is laid out, Barrett rolls outside and grabs the title. He's going to smack Orton with it, Cena whips him around to stop him, crowd goes wild, Orton is on his feet, Cena rips the title away but accidently nails Orton with the title. Barrett picks him up, hits his finisher again and Cena has to count.

[ampulator]

To me the non predictable route was to....

Barrett hits his finish on Orton, Orton kicks out.

Orton is laid out, Barrett rolls outside and grabs the title. He's going to smack Orton with it, Cena whips him around to stop him, crowd goes wild, Orton is on his feet, Cena rips the title away but accidently nails Orton with the title. Barrett picks him up, hits his finisher again and Cena has to count.
Actually, I think any finish is predictable now, considering every possible finish had been done before.

[Stennick]

I meant predictable in the way that the majority of the people were expected the finish.

That being said being predictable isn't bad. Austin beat Michaels at WM14 that was pretty much a given but nobody complained about it.

[supershot]

And for reasons I can't explain, that hug with Cole is irritating me. lol

Here lies the answer! Cena will get his job back and POSSIBLY (actually more like hoping) turning heel in the process because good 'ole General Manager Cole as announced Cena has returned and is officially a new member of the COAL MINERS!!!

cross your fingers! :p

[Wrestling Century]

Yes, because saying that your question was naive is clearly calling you stupid.

I don't see anything posted in this thread about the PPV that really should have made you assume that the Cena good-bye was legitimate. Again, my point was simply that you got a response to your question that you disliked because you asked a question that really didn't need to be asked. Simple as that.

I was trying to offer you a partial solution to what you perceive as persecution. But if you'd rather look at everything as a personal attack, so be it.

As for the pay per view, I have to say it was really disappointing overall. I ended up ordering it as it there were a few matches that intrigued me, but had to cancel due to technical issues. Seeing the rest of the event made me happy that I ended up canceling.

I'm sorry, I was in a bad mood yesterday. I apologise. Thank you for trying to help me. :o

[Wrestling Century]

Now, I fully accept that on a wrestling board, that probably came off as a stupid question - but I didn't call the Whaaaaaambulance, start telling people "**** you" or "Screw you" and generally bemoaning people for making me look stupid. And if I did, I'd fully expect a few people to have a chuckle at my expense. That's how the internet works. If he's going to get his knickers in a twist over something so trivial, I'd suggest that the internet is probably not the place for him to be be spending his time.


I was having a bad day yesterday, and getting trolled obviously didn't make my day any better. You and a few other people (not you BigPapa42) knew that I was getting pissed off at that, and yet you still kept antagonizing me, just like a bully in elementary school. I agree that my behavior was unacceptable, but grow up. Don't be immature and pretend that everybody else on the internet is an ass and would do the same thing that you did.

[Hyde Hill]

WWE PURGES CREATIVE TEAM WITH MULTIPLE DISMISSALS
By Mike Johnson on 2010-11-22 18:22:11 Christopher DeJoseph was not the only member of the World Wrestling Entertainment creative team let go last week, PWInsider.com has confirmed. Although we are still working on the names of the writers who were dismissed, we've confirmed that WWE let an additional 2-4 writers go.
The writers were dismissed because company management was unhappy with the results of the last quarter financially and the decision was made to purge the writers and bring in fresh blood with new ideas.

As we noted when word came out that DeJoseph was released, the company has been actively scouting for new writers in the last several weeks.

Credit PWI. Start dusting off those resumes and start applying!. Would love it if they ran an online competition for one of the spots. The IWC would explode.

[ampulator]

I was having a bad day yesterday, and getting trolled obviously didn't make my day any better. You and a few other people (not you BigPapa42) knew that I was getting pissed off at that, and yet you still kept antagonizing me, just like a bully in elementary school. I agree that my behavior was unacceptable, but grow up. Don't be immature and pretend that everybody else on the internet is an ass and would do the same thing that you did.

I don't you got it that bad. You thought that was bad? Maybe in Real Life it would be.

But this is the internet. It's not Real Life. You didn't get trolled. You get ribbed for your naiveté. Maybe you should become less naive instead of playing those who point it out?

I wouldn't have done what they would have done, and I certainly don't approve of it, but your reaction was over the top. You need to learn how to be more thick-skinned. If you can't take that on ther internet, you'll must be absolutely insulted by the rest of the internet.

If you thought Brash was harsh, you haven't face the double combination fo the truth/fact squad of Lazorbeak and Remianen.

[Hyde Hill]

How about the most unoriginal one possible? They make it that Cena is fired from RAW so he shows up on Smackdown to boost the ratings there at their new home. Cena vs Edge and Kane vs Taker for WM. Orton vs HHH on the raw side.

Just to make it clear that was not my suggestion just the one of the most obvious option the E could go for.

[Linsolv]

If you thought Brash was harsh, you haven't face the double combination fo the truth/fact squad of Lazorbeak and Remianen.

... Oh god. Just thinking about Remi giving the smackdown to me in the past makes me want to curl up in the fetal position and never wake up again.

[Stennick]

Is it just me or is Wade Barrett on another level? This crowd is HOT and eating right out of his hands.

"Can we have some decorum please"

Barrett vs. Cena has got to be at WM this year right? I might just buy that if they keep this up until then.

[Stennick]

So why is it in ROH Punk constantly played second fiddle to Joe. I think he lose or tied Joe in all of their major matches.

Yet even then I thought Punk clearly was the better pro wrestler since despite what anyone says Pro Wrestling is a show with characters and Punk had a very interesting and somewhat original character compared to Joe.

I take great pleasure in knowing that Punk has been far more successful than Joe likely ever will be.

[supershot]

"To get into the ring with Zeke, Is Riley under the influence?"

Roflmao! :D

That squash was definitely dedicated to that DUI ticket

[SaySo]

Cena sucks!!!

He told me to chant it.

[brashleyholland]

Woah, hold on a second....didn't this guy get fired last night???

Just kidding...

:D

Lol, the "Let's go Cena!" vs "Cena sucks!" thing was cool :-p

[supershot]

Cena sucks!!!

He told me to chant it.

That cool as hell

[Stennick]

John Cena cut the best promo on RAW in five years atleast. This ladies and gentlemen is why he's mentioned with Hogan, Austin, and Rock.

[TracyBrooksFan]

John Cena cut the best promo on RAW in five years atleast. This ladies and gentlemen is why he's mentioned with Hogan, Austin, and Rock.

I agree one of his best promos.

[SaySo]

Cena to TNA?

j/k

[Stennick]

One of THE best promos not just one of his best promos.

[brashleyholland]

HA! Did you hear someone on the broadcast team smirk as they put the camera on that distraught looking chick? :-p

[SaySo]

LoL at Wade's taunt there.

Brashley, i think that was Punk.

[Stennick]

Look at this audience, these fans bought this hook line and sinker. They really stepped it up a notch with this segment.

[SaySo]

Daniel Bryan the guest host?

[Stennick]

Nice SaySo

Ted looks more cut up these days than he did in the past.

[The Final Countdown]

So why is it in ROH Punk constantly played second fiddle to Joe. I think he lose or tied Joe in all of their major matches.

Yet even then I thought Punk clearly was the better pro wrestler since despite what anyone says Pro Wrestling is a show with characters and Punk had a very interesting and somewhat original character compared to Joe.

I take great pleasure in knowing that Punk has been far more successful than Joe likely ever will be.
In their famous trilogy of matches in 2004, they had two 1-hour draws before Joe won the final match. I would agree that Punk was more well-rounded, both back then and now; he was and is without a doubt more charismatic and a better talker. Of course, the most important thing in ROH is whether or not you can go in the ring. Who the better actual worker was back then is debatable. These days, I think it's clearly Punk, but he has either remained just as good or gotten better since then, while Joe is not what he used to be. In 2004, I'm not sure who I'd say the better "worker" was--they were both great.

Punk was over HUGE--and I think that's another reason he didn't beat Joe. Joe's title reign had gone on so long, and the guy that ended it was going to get a huge boost. Punk didn't need the title; he was already as over as anyone else in the company. Instead, they had Austin Aries dethrone Joe less than a month after the Joe/Punk trilogy ended, which turned Aries into a bonafide main eventer. I think they made the right decision.

[Bigpapa42]

Love him or hate him, Cena can cut a fantastic promo.

[crownsy]

Yea, I agree

Hey, give WWE this, they are selling the crap out of him being gone...Not sure where they go from here, but they retroactively gave the finish last night alittle more juice by having Cena say he's done in the "wwe" instead of just raw, and playing it up with a strong segment.

Love the cena sucks vs lets go cena chants.


Also, Punk on commentary = gold. the problem is lawler, as someone else said a few pages ago just seems....disinterested as a face announcer.

[Stennick]

So Barrett wins the championship tonight, Cena comes back at the Rumble, wins, Wrestlemania is Barrett vs. Cena?

[SaySo]

My prediction, Miz cashes it in tonight. He already set it up with the false illness excuse that we commonly use to avoid work/school.

[SeanMcFly]

Jeeezus....

Yes, and the Undertaker is really a zombie.

Kane makes that fire come up from the ringposts all by himself you know. With magic. :eek:

I know you're bustin' his balls...

but that Gobbledy Gooker was really a giant wrestling turkey right?

No.

He was a DANCING wrestling turkey.

Sorry to bring this back, but I actually lol'd for once :D

[SaySo]

i got one right.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Whooa... lil girl's hate miz.... that lil girl scared me...........

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/197102486.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1290486462&Signature=olTqEhFMVXG8M%2BBOUWdexeFYyCk%3D

[jwt13]

Well I'm done with WWE after that good Raw instead of that

[ShaunGBD]

Well I'm done with WWE after that good Raw instead of that

Y?

It was cool, It wasn't shocking. but it was cool.

[brashleyholland]

Whooa... lil girl's hate miz.... that lil girl scared me...........

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/197102486.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1290486462&Signature=olTqEhFMVXG8M%2BBOUWdexeFYyCk%3D

Well if they remake the Exorcist....

[ShaunGBD]

Whooa... lil girl's hate miz.... that lil girl scared me...........

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/197102486.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1290486462&Signature=olTqEhFMVXG8M%2BBOUWdexeFYyCk%3D

Prolly don't remember but when Edge beat RVD and Cena and a kid had his mouth over and his hand on his head. nothing beat that pic.

Also, she prolly ask for candy and the parents said no. lol

[Stennick]

You're done with RAW because the second most over heel in the company did that?

You can not like Miz all you want but in my opinion Miz haters are even more stupid than Cena haters.

You don't get the reaction this guy gets if you're not one of the best in the world at what you do.

I hate pro wrestling now days most of the time and I loved RAW. If you're going to be that jaded that one segment on an otherwise great show wasn't what you wanted then I'm shocked you lasted as a fan this long in pro wrestling.

[brashleyholland]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/brashleyholland/motivatora7d189fd0bbf4dd3070620b8d48ba4f05c1a337b. jpg

[jwt13]

Y?

It was cool, It wasn't shocking. but it was cool.

I'm an Orton mark :) he should have had it longer but I'm not really done.

[Johnny Fenoli]

The Miz....

Real World cast member, who was a huge fan of wrestling.

was signed up based on his celebrity and given a shot...

Made it, but, was a joke forever... almost everyone hated him.

Formed a great team with John Morrison, but was the Marty Jannety of the group, the one who would never make it.

Won the US title, and started taking off...

Got ALOT better on the mic.

Got better in the ring.

.... Now... The Miz is the WWE CHAMPION...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/JohnnyFenoli/miz.jpg

[Stennick]

The guy was a true fan of pro wrestling, I remember seeing him in ECW hanging around as the "chick magnet" and thought he was so lame but ever since he came back with the short tights and the RAW run he's been the best thing on the show. Well him and Wade trade off every week.

Best RAW in forever! Everyone was crying about how predictable the WWE was blah blah blah its bland, its this its that.

I don't deny those things but I think this show was truly.......Awesome (had to do it)

[jwt13]

You're done with RAW because the second most over heel in the company did that?

You can not like Miz all you want but in my opinion Miz haters are even more stupid than Cena haters.

You don't get the reaction this guy gets if you're not one of the best in the world at what you do.

I hate pro wrestling now days most of the time and I loved RAW. If you're going to be that jaded that one segment on an otherwise great show wasn't what you wanted then I'm shocked you lasted as a fan this long in pro wrestling.

I'm not a miz hater I used to be but now I like him like I said to the other guy i'm not really done i just wanted orton to hold it longer

[Linsolv]

Jeez Johnny! YOU SPOILED IT FOR ME. At least I still don't know whether Charlie Brown or Jesus wins this match. :( (:p)

[SaySo]

David Otunga must be motivated after witnessing The Miz. Otunga thinking to himself, "If i work as hard as The Miz, I'll be awesome too, i get it."

Miz bringing Cleveland home a Championship. Something LeWrong James didn't do.

[ShaunGBD]

Love It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lazorbeak]

So why is it in ROH Punk constantly played second fiddle to Joe. I think he lose or tied Joe in all of their major matches.

Yet even then I thought Punk clearly was the better pro wrestler since despite what anyone says Pro Wrestling is a show with characters and Punk had a very interesting and somewhat original character compared to Joe.

I take great pleasure in knowing that Punk has been far more successful than Joe likely ever will be.

It's not always about who is the better wrestler. Punk was working dates in TNA and had been IWA:MS's biggest name for awhile by the time he feuded with Joe. Joe on the other hand had worked in California for an indy that was all but dead (UPW) and in Japan, but had really no other major North American commitments. It would have been bad booking to put Punk over Joe when two nights later he's just standing behind Raven or headlining for another promotion.

[Stennick]

but its not bad booking to build that guy up as your second biggest star? Its not bad booking to give him the title once he was already signed to the WWE? Sorry but I can't agree with the "he was doing other things so he can't be the champion" logic.

By the time they feuded Joe was the biggest star in ROH it doesn't matter that CM Punk was playing a bit part in TNA every few weeks.

[ShaunGBD]

Miz bringing Cleveland home a Championship. Something Lebron James didn't do.

Quote of the year

[Hyde Hill]

HoooYah!

[SaySo]

Here is a link to an article (see below): http://www.clevelandsportstorture.com/2010/08/clevelands-next-hope.html?showComment=1281554629238

Cleveland's Next Hope

Bernie Kosar. Brady Quinn. Lebron James. These were supposed to be our "Hometown" saviors. Guys who grew up around here, played here, and were destined to bring our starving city its first championship since 1964...

Cleveland... I give to you Parma's own... Michael Mizanin, better known as the egotistical, brash heel of the WWE - "The Miz".

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5wE80qD6X08/TGIOfsSGFKI/AAAAAAAAAW8/-U8tEPrXooA/s320/Miz2.jpg

Before ascending the ranks of the WWE main roster, the Normandy High School alum first gained fame on The Real World and later Real World/Road Rules Challenge. He would eventually earn a spot in the WWE, shooting up the ranks quicker than a Justin Gabriel 450 splash. Already a two time and current United States Champion, The Miz shocked the world last month by winning the "Money In The Bank" (MITB) Ladder Match, which guarantees a World Title shot any time, any place. The MITB holder carries a briefcase and can literally "cash-in" whenever, wherever - surprising the unfortunate champion following a grueling hell in the cell match, or at a house show, or in an alley, or in a hotel lobby.

There have been seven MITB winners. All seven have successfully cashed in to become champion. Some were established superstars like Edge. Some were mid-carders who were instantly propelled to main event stardom like C.M. Punk and Jack Swagger. The statistics show it. All logic points to it - The Miz will do it. No quit- I mean elbow injuries. No drives, shots, fumbles, or meltdowns in the ninth. Cleveland will have its champion!
Whoah, whoah whoah. Before we begin to drink the Lake Erie bubbly, I caution you - let's not forget the glorious name of this very blog. If there was ever a time to break the MITB winning streak, it would figure to be when Cleveland was on the verge. There we are - at the top of the ladder, fingers stretched, the ultimate prize at our fingertips - only to get choke slammed to hell.

The Miz's catchphrase is "I'm the Miz and I'm AWESOME!" He is... but needn't he forget... he's from Cleveland as well. Go get' em kid.

Five-Six Months later

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2450/mizj.jpg

[ShaunGBD]

read it. Good. I didn't like the miz when he first feud with cena and those guys. But he grew on me.

[SeanMcFly]

Quote of the year

It was meant to say 'LeWrong James' eh... :rolleyes:

[ShaunGBD]

It was meant to say 'LeWrong James' eh... :rolleyes:

I know I change it. It looked better to me.

[lazorbeak]

but its not bad booking to build that guy up as your second biggest star? Its not bad booking to give him the title once he was already signed to the WWE? Sorry but I can't agree with the "he was doing other things so he can't be the champion" logic.

By the time they feuded Joe was the biggest star in ROH it doesn't matter that CM Punk was playing a bit part in TNA every few weeks.

He got the belt on his way out more as a thank you for his work more than anything else. My point is ROH wasn't his first or most notable priority at the time of his feud with Joe, so it wouldn't have made sense to give him the belt at that point. My point has nothing to do with Joe being over, it's that why would you take a guy who has a pedigree from another promotion and is featured nationally in a supporting role and say that he's better than your home-grown star? It just makes your company look amateurish.

[TakerNGN74]

Is it just me or did they totally bury Wade Barret, I mean he had three matches for the title and lost them all and then The Miz cashes in and wins the belt granted Orton was injured when The Miz did it but I still think they kind of gave Barrett the short end of the stick. I am glad that the Miz won even though I thought he should have been the first guy to lose when cashing in money in the bank but all in all I am okay with it.

[BHK1978]

Is it just me or did they totally bury Wade Barret, I mean he had three matches for the title and lost them all and then The Miz cashes in and wins the belt granted Orton was injured when The Miz did it but I still think they kind of gave Barrett the short end of the stick. I am glad that the Miz won even though I thought he should have been the first guy to lose when cashing in money in the bank but all in all I am okay with it.

I have always found the Miz annoying going back to his days on The Real World. If they were going to give the title to someone I would have rather had Barret get it over the Miz. That being said, there is no doubt the Miz is over right now as a heel so maybe it was the right move to give him the title.

Here is hoping that he is just an Iron Shiek/Stan Stasiak type champion and he only holds the title for a little bit.

[alden]

The miz is ready. He has been built up but not super pushed. Is he going to have a orton or hhh title run? No.......he does not need it but he is not going to have a bob backlund title run either *remember his one day title run lol*. He will most likley hold it till mania and loose it then.

[TakerNGN74]

The miz is ready. He has been built up but not super pushed. Is he going to have a orton or hhh title run? No.......he does not need it but he is not going to have a bob backlund title run either *remember his one day title run lol*. He will most likley hold it till mania and loose it then.

Although Backlund had a one day title late in his career when he beat Bret Hart. His first title reign lasted six years, not sure if you knew that but I just thought I would bring it up.

[crownsy]

the miz is at the top of his game right now, one of the top acts in the company.

And this is coming from someone who predicted he'd be future endevor'd within 6 months of his breakup from JoMo

Even if you don't like that he's a former reality TV star, kid is absolute gold on the mic as a heel, and has raised his in ring game to at least "above Average"

I have zero problem with this, because....

HE'S THE MIZ....AND HE'S AWWWWEEESSSOMMMMMEEE

[Genadi]

The miz is ready. He has been built up but not super pushed. Is he going to have a orton or hhh title run? No.......he does not need it but he is not going to have a bob backlund title run either *remember his one day title run lol*. He will most likley hold it till mania and loose it then.

I can't see him going into Mania as champ, I think he's lucky to make it to the Rumble. Nothing to do with my feelings on him just the way I see it playing out.

[ShaunGBD]

The miz is ready. He has been built up but not super pushed. Is he going to have a orton or hhh title run? No.......he does not need it

Why does he not need it?

[alden]

Because he is already super over. What good would it do for him to hold the title for a long time? He is not going to carry the company and i don't think they intend him to. Think of it as a c.m. punk win. Did anyone expect him to win the title when he did? It was a pure mark out moment the first time he won it. They did it to get a reaction and they did. When the reaction wares off they will move the title to cena most likley or the returning hhh.

[ChrisKid]

Yey,Yes,Yes The Miz is Champ FINALLY

[TakerNGN74]

Because he is already super over. What good would it do for him to hold the title for a long time? He is not going to carry the company and i don't think they intend him to. Think of it as a c.m. punk win. Did anyone expect him to win the title when he did? It was a pure mark out moment the first time he won it. They did it to get a reaction and they did. When the reaction wares off they will move the title to cena most likley or the returning hhh.

that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, yeah you may be right he might not have a long reign but saying that he shouldn't have won it is dumb. Triple H has said it himself if you are not in the business to be the champion then you shouldn't be there.

[alden]

Never said he should not have won it lol. But people like o lets say

arn anderson
jake roberts
jimmy snuka
roddy piper
al snow

and countless other men who have never won and title *and some of them for the exact reason as they did not need it*

they all say hello. As said by jake roberts, titles are a a way to get over. if you don't need it to get over then why use it?

[Genadi]

that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, yeah you may be right he might not have a long reign but saying that he shouldn't have won it is dumb. Triple H has said it himself if you are not in the business to be the champion then you shouldn't be there.

You shouldn't call peoples opinions dumb, just sayin.

I think it was Austin who made that quote about being World champ also. I disagree with it btw, shows you guys who think like that have been in the business too long or believe the hype their promoter has built around them. Pro wrestling is fake, title belts are props.

It's not still real to me dammit! :p

[ShaunGBD]

Never said he should not have won it lol. But people like o lets say

arn anderson
jake roberts
jimmy snuka
roddy piper
al snow

and countless other men who have never won and title *and some of them for the exact reason as they did not need it*

they all say hello. As said by jake roberts, titles are a a way to get over. if you don't need it to get over then why use it?

Arn,Jake, Jimmy, Roddy, AL!!

I was listing till them. I agree that some people don't need it. But also their might not be storylines, big enough, etc,etc for the reason those people were never world champ.

[alden]

Arn,Jake, Jimmy, Roddy, AL!!

I was listing till them. I agree that some people don't need it. But also their might not be storylines, big enough, etc,etc for the reason those people were never world champ.

used al snow for a man who had a passion for the business and never had a world title. I know that one was kind of a stretch but he was very popular in ecw lol

[TakerNGN74]

You shouldn't call peoples opinions dumb, just sayin.

I think it was Austin who made that quote about being World champ also. I disagree with it btw, shows you guys who think like that have been in the business too long or believe the hype their promoter has built around them. Pro wrestling is fake, title belts are props.

It's not still real to me dammit! :p

Okay I understand your point that I shouldn't call peoples opinions dumb, wrestling isn't real by any means and I never said that I thought it was the only time I thought it was real was when I was to little to know any better. It was Triple H that said that people who don't want to be champion shouldn't be in the business he said it on one of his DVD releases. I didn't want Miz to win the title but now that he has I am okay with it.

[SaySo]

http://mizphotos.com/albums/Digitals/RAW/2010/Raw%20Digitals%2011-22/RAW_913_Photo_153.jpg

Oh Hail The Miz for your awesome win. You countered the RKO and we witnessed the Skull Crusshing Finale.

[ShaunGBD]

It was cool to see. Kinda was excepting to see it. But when he won and he almost cried and went nuts. it was cool. Even if he was a heel. It's his first time. Let him enjoy it.

[Genadi]

Okay I understand your point that I shouldn't call peoples opinions dumb, wrestling isn't real by any means and I never said that I thought it was the only time I thought it was real was when I was to little to know any better.

I was talking about the guys like Triple H and Austin when I made the comment about being in the business too long or taking it too seriously. Just so you know that comment wasn't directed at you :)

[TakerNGN74]

Yeah I know.

[SaySo]

Found this online already:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/customavatars/avatar92737_306.gif

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3618/mizrawtitleorton.gif

[Self]

I'm almost tempted to watch RAW now, because I've always been curious about whether Miz would make a good champion. He's a good promo, has a good character, and I like him, but I've never thought he was championship material. I've always thought that the Champion should represent "the best fighter in the world" and therefore be extraordinary in some way. Hulk Hogan was big and strong. Bret Hart was technically proficient. John Cena never gives up. With the exception of his promo skills, The Miz is entirely ordinary. He wins matches by being the guy who gets to hit his move, or by cheating ala every heel in the history of the sport. In the ring, in kayfabe terms, he isn't unique or special.

Again, I really like The Miz, feel he's a valuable asset to the show, and pop whenever I hear his music.

Maybe he'll be a good "undeserving" champion, retaining the belt by the skin of his teeth, with the crowd begging for the next strong, special, unique babyface challenger to knock him down a peg. Maybe his promos will sell tickets. Maybe his character will ignite bitter blood feuds. Maybe he'll be a great champion in those regards.

Alas, as interested as I am in The Miz' reign, I won't be watching it. I learned during Survivor Series that I no longer enjoy the WWE style like I used to. It just doesn't float my personal boat, as much as what I'm watching on the indy scene. In theory, I'd dig the slower WWE-style because it would allow more time for storytelling. I'm a story guy. I'm happy to sacrifice some movez for narrative. Yet Survivor Series didn't deliver. I saw no more drama or storytelling in Bryan/Ted, Sheamus/JoMo, Kaval/Dolph than I do in opening matches in PWG. I just saw less movez.

[fatallylost]

It's funny, looking at the RAW champs.

Miz - First world title run
Bryan - Les than a year with WWE (depending on how you really look at it)
Slater/Gabriel - rookie years.

[The Celt]

I hated Survivor Series but I freely admit this RAW was incredible on as pure entertainment. I mean look at all the stuff that went down last night

* A very good match between Sheamus and R-Truth
* LayCool can't get into the building (it's these small things that make for a FAR more complete show)
* Tamina and Santino hook up (Santino will go down in history as the greatest ladies' man in this sport. Maria, Beth and now Tamina. Kayfabe-wise of course, because there's no beating Punk, ever :D )
* CM Punk on commentary
* John Cena's best promo ever
* I understand alot of people marked for Bryan Daniel: American Pimp haha
* Barrett's You can't see me taunt was gold as Cena left the building
* Randy Orton is made look like a true warrior
* Miz is world champ, when alot of people thought he'd be the first guy to have a failed cash-in


You just gotta take your hat off for that kind of stuff

[LoNdOn]

When the Miz came out I popped like you wouldn't believe.

Really enjoyable RAW. That makes it two great RAWs in two weeks and next week we have King Of The Ring. :D

[juggaloninjalee]

Whoever said Miz doesn't need the title is crazy! The only people in the WWE who don't NEED the title are John Cena, Triple H, and the Undertaker because they will always be known as the top guys. Cena could come back and lose to the Miz but fans will still view him as the top guy in the company and still the face. It would take a lot to tear those reputations down but they could go the rest of their careers without the top title.

Miz is someone who could benefit by having the belt for 3-4 months. Some could call him the luckiest champion ever while others could call him the newest dirtiest player in the game because he wins by cheating or dodging opponents by getting counted out. Maybe he wins a couple matches by count out with Rileys help.

That would be entertaining and I think it would make people love to hate him. He would have heel heat and not XPac heat.

[UkWrestleFan]

The Miz title win makes sense. Cena looks like he's having some time off so it makes sense to have somebody else step upto the Main Event. We've got Miz, Orton & Barrett now. I expect Triple H to return soon making it 2 good guys and 2 bad guys.

[The Shape]

That would be entertaining and I think it would make people love to hate him. He would have heel heat and not XPac heat.

lol. I haven't been watching lately but Miz has had real heat for a very long time.

[crownsy]

I can't see him going into Mania as champ, I think he's lucky to make it to the Rumble. Nothing to do with my feelings on him just the way I see it playing out.

Unless Trips comes back, who takes it?

ORton isn't a great draw with the strap, I like Randy, but the crowd and PPV buys show that they prefer to see him chasing the title and causing mayhem than actually holding it. He just had a "long run" (by today's WWE standards :rolleyes:) so i can't see him winning it back that quickly.

In theroy, Cena is "out" of the picture, Barrett's not ready and a heel, sheamus doesn't need it again, he's also a heel.

I mean, what face is ready for that push on raw? Morrision? He might get that push, but i dont think he's going to win it.

[crownsy]

That would be entertaining and I think it would make people love to hate him. He would have heel heat and not XPac heat.

Uh, in no way, shape or form is it Xpac heat, sorry.

former Reality TV star or no, he is gold on the mic, he's arguably the number 1 heel in the company right now and has been in that class for awhile.

Ever since he came back with the short tights and lost the stupid "lady's man" gimmick, he's been one of the best things on Raw and in the WWE in general.

[UkWrestleFan]

I'd like to see JoMo get a push, actually. They have history and JoMo's beard is great.

[crownsy]

I'd like to see JoMo get a push, actually. They have history and JoMo's beard is great.

I wouldn't mind seeing him get the initial shot at it, after they somehow bow randy out gracefully ( Thinking mabey he snaps and becomes the new "I'm taking out nesxus at all costs, leading to him and cena teaming up somehow to rid the company of them)

Don't think I'd like him to win it though, I love Morrison in ring, but he bores me on the mic as a face. He was better as a wise guy heel.

[Hyde Hill]

Whoever said Miz doesn't need the title is crazy! The only people in the WWE who don't NEED the title are John Cena, Triple H, and the Undertaker because they will always be known as the top guys. Cena could come back and lose to the Miz but fans will still view him as the top guy in the company and still the face. It would take a lot to tear those reputations down but they could go the rest of their careers without the top title.

Miz is someone who could benefit by having the belt for 3-4 months. Some could call him the luckiest champion ever while others could call him the newest dirtiest player in the game because he wins by cheating or dodging opponents by getting counted out. Maybe he wins a couple matches by count out with Rileys help.

That would be entertaining and I think it would make people love to hate him. He would have heel heat and not XPac heat.

He didn't really say that though he said more that he did not need a long run at this moment. Miz will probably loose it in the chamber which would give him a decent run and not tarnish him too much seeing as it was against 5 other guys. With Cena or Trips returning at the rumble and the other at the chamber or earlier.

[juggaloninjalee]

Uh, in no way, shape or form is it Xpac heat, sorry.

former Reality TV star or no, he is gold on the mic, he's arguably the number 1 heel in the company right now and has been in that class for awhile.

Ever since he came back with the short tights and lost the stupid "lady's man" gimmick, he's been one of the best things on Raw and in the WWE in general.

I never said he has XPac heat. My point was people would love to see how he is going to cheat to win or get by say Randy Orton this month... John Morrison next month... CM Punk the following month... Then eventually lose after trying to cheat but somehow the face kicks out of the pinfall attempt and wins overcoming all odds.

To me the fans would love the Miz but boo him when he cheats and would like whoever went over Miz in the end. If he loses the belt this month I will be dissappointed even though to me Miz has been booked as not as tough as Orton, Sheamus, Daniel Bryan, or Cena.

[Stennick]

Barrett vs. Orton vs. Miz at the Royal Rumble. Orton takes out The Miz with the RKO, Nexus interfere giving Barrett the title.

Later on that night John Cena (somehow) enters and wins the Royal Rumble.

The next night we have Cena vs. Barrett at Wrestlemania and Miz blames Orton (rightfully so) for costing him his championship.

So Mania we would have Miz vs. Orton, Barrett vs. Cena

[ShaunGBD]

Barrett vs. Orton vs. Miz at the Royal Rumble. Orton takes out The Miz with the RKO, Nexus interfere giving Barrett the title.

Later on that night John Cena (somehow) enters and wins the Royal Rumble.

The next night we have Cena vs. Barrett at Wrestlemania and Miz blames Orton (rightfully so) for costing him his championship.

So Mania we would have Miz vs. Orton, Barrett vs. Cena

It make totally sense. Because of that. I don't see it.

[Hashasheen]

http://boards.420chan.org/wooo/src/1290509105703.png

All I'm going to say is this: :p

[juggaloninjalee]

http://boards.420chan.org/wooo/src/1290509105703.png

All I'm going to say is this: :p

FTW

[ChrisKid]

Miz wins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmiF16nE9YI

[ChrisKid]

http://boards.420chan.org/wooo/src/1290509105703.png

All I'm going to say is this: :p

:eek:

[The Celt]

http://boards.420chan.org/wooo/src/1290509105703.png

All I'm going to say is this: :p

Hey Hashasheen, do you trip*** over at /wooo/? I'm there recently as The Celt (obviously)

[LoganRodzen]

My lady has decided to give me the coolest Christmas present of all time... ROYAL RUMBLE TICKETS! And she told me about it early... what a gal.

Yep. January 30th I will be at the TD Garden in Boston watching one of the coolest PPV's ever. I'm really pumped about it because my older brother is going with us along with his wife (a double date at wrestling?!). My brother actually works for TD Bank in their fraud department and he can get discounted tickets for events there. I've gone to RAW with him there for $15 (not the best seats, but you can see from everywhere in that arena).

I've been to a couple Smackdown tapings, two RAW live events, and Summerslam '06 (Orton vs Hogan and DX vs McMahon's). I'm really pumped to go to another PPV and having gone to Summerslam - I now need to go to just a few more "BIG" PPV's - Wrestlemania and Survivor Series. If King of the Ring was still around I'd need to go to that.

Anyone else ever gone to the Royal Rumble or going this year? Stories! Please share!


EDIT: Even though I don't follow wrestling week to week, I try to stay "current" on things that are happening. I'm still pumped to go see it and I'll probably watch RAW all of January so that I know what's happening when I'm there, ha.

[Eigan]

http://boards.420chan.org/wooo/src/1290509105703.png

All I'm going to say is this: :p
Daniel Bryan is the nerd that I aspire to become.

[Hashasheen]

Hey Hashasheen, do you trip*** over at /wooo/? I'm there recently as The Celt (obviously)

I lurk there every now and then, but I'm mostly a wrestlezoner and here.

[b0shey]

WWE has updated future live events and changed John Cena's name to "Juan Cena." Obviously this will play a part in Cena's current storyline.

On a related note, Cena noted on Twitter today that he "bought" tickets for next week's three-hour RAW so it looks like he will be there to continue the angle.

Lucha Libre Cena :p

[Candyman]

WWE has updated future live events and changed John Cena's name to "Juan Cena." Obviously this will play a part in Cena's current storyline.

On a related note, Cena noted on Twitter today that he "bought" tickets for next week's three-hour RAW so it looks like he will be there to continue the angle.

Lucha Libre Cena :p

This is excellent. The Juan Cena thing is awesome, it's obviously NOT going to play a part in the storyline, but it's cool that the WWE is going to make sure he's still at house shows even though he's "fired" on TV. And it's cool that he has tickets, I was worried that him being fired was going to mean he was taking time off, but it'd be stupid for them not to continue the storyline while it's hot. I have a feeling Cena is going to keep bothering Barrett until Barrett gets so pissed he demands a match with Cena, with the stipulation that if Cena wins he gets his job back.

[Wrestling Century]

Is it just me or did they totally bury Wade Barret, I mean he had three matches for the title and lost them all and then The Miz cashes in and wins the belt granted Orton was injured when The Miz did it but I still think they kind of gave Barrett the short end of the stick. I am glad that the Miz won even though I thought he should have been the first guy to lose when cashing in money in the bank but all in all I am okay with it.

IMO Wade Barrett isn't ready to become a world champ. His promos are good, but IMO his matches are either horrendous or boring. I think that he is still green, and shouldn't have a world title yet. But in a few years or so he will almost defiantely be good enough to carry the promotion/brand.

[Stennick]

In a few years or so? Barrett on RAW had the fans eating out of his hands with his promo. The guy does not look like a rookie.

If I could use a comparison I'd compare Barrett to Sam Bradford. The success they're having is above average but the fact that their having it their rookies years in businesses that have quite the learning curve speaks volumes.

Barrett would/could be ready for the championship anytime. Isn't this the same internet that cried for years that Cena was boring in the ring? Same old ____" is what ECW chanted at him.

Yet the WWE seemed to do just fine business wise for the last five years while this "boring" wrestler who might I add had only been full time for two years when he won the championship without guys like Regal likely mentoring him like Barrett has.

My point is this isn't ROH where a guys wrestling skills have to be on par. He's main evented three straight pay per views, he's in a feud with the biggest star in wrestling. You don't do these things with somebody unless you think their ready for the championship.

Barrett should win the championship for this feud to move to that next level. After all if Wade never wins the title then Cena can't beat him for it and I don't see this feud not having the world title involved in it at Mania.

[ampulator]

Well, the problem Stennick, which wouldn't be much of an impediment with the WWE, is that WWE's payoff matches aren't terrible good these days.

Now, no one believes their matches need to be great on TV. But for the PPV fued payoff matches, these MUST be good enough, but never are.

Look at Cena/Orton. Cena/Batista. Orton/Barrett. Their payoff matches do not live up to their storylines behind them. This leads to disappointment, even among the markier fans.

But that doesn't really matter to the WWE, and it's not going to stop them.

[fatallylost]

http://boards.420chan.org/wooo/src/1290509105703.png

All I'm going to say is this: :p

The best thing about that? Why did Nikki seem to be just as into it?

Best storyline ever? Or, just an odd moment?

[Stennick]

Well, the problem Stennick, which wouldn't be much of an impediment with the WWE, is that WWE's payoff matches aren't terrible good these days.

Now, no one believes their matches need to be great on TV. But for the PPV fued payoff matches, these MUST be good enough, but never are.

Look at Cena/Orton. Cena/Batista. Orton/Barrett. Their payoff matches do not live up to their storylines behind them. This leads to disappointment, even among the markier fans.

But that doesn't really matter to the WWE, and it's not going to stop them.

I agree with you that I found myself bored with some of the bigger pay per view matches in recent time and thats pretty much across the board.

That being said a hot storyline can take even the blandest match and up it a few notches. People should go back and watch some old Attitude era pay per views. There is a reason people have to "learn to work the WWE main event style" its because its literally kicks, punches and big spots. What made those matches as entertaining as they seemed were the stories behind them. I think this is one of the bigger if not biggest storyline they have had going in quite some time.

I think its difficult for any of us to judge how "markier" fans view a product. We're not 12 years old and likely don't have many 12 year old friends. Even if their an older mark (no internet maybe?) I doubt many of us have friends that would fall into what we would consider a mark. Some might not be as "in the know" as we are but I doubt any of us have access to say even a respectable sample size of "marks" to know what they think. So really anytime anyone on the internet proclaims that the marks hate this guy, or that the marks don't enjoy this. Its basically rooted in biased opinion.

Either we want to play psychologist for a moment and say "if I didn't know what I know how would I look at this" but that might as well be somebody rich trying to look at things from a poor mans perspective its impossible. All you're going to come up with is what you either see as their reactions and views or essentially sub consciously just plaster them with the same views we have. Some things can't be judged and I think the "non smart" wrestling fans thoughts are one of them.

There still isn't and likely never will be some magical number that tells us what percentage of fans are reading the dirt sheets and know the backstage stuff (I still bet its less than 25 percent of total fans) and how many people just casually watch RAW just like its an episode of Law and Order as in they take what they are shown on the screen and go from there without digigng into what actors wanted more screen time and better roles, etc.

[Genadi]

Unless Trips comes back, who takes it?

Who knows, I do know every year around this time they get a little trigger happy with the belt. From Survivor Series to Mania is my fave time to watch WWE, I consider it their main season. The best storylines and matches are usually built up around this time of year in preparation for the big one.

[lazorbeak]

I agree with you that I found myself bored with some of the bigger pay per view matches in recent time and thats pretty much across the board.

That being said a hot storyline can take even the blandest match and up it a few notches. People should go back and watch some old Attitude era pay per views. There is a reason people have to "learn to work the WWE main event style" its because its literally kicks, punches and big spots. What made those matches as entertaining as they seemed were the stories behind them. I think this is one of the bigger if not biggest storyline they have had going in quite some time.

I think its difficult for any of us to judge how "markier" fans view a product. We're not 12 years old and likely don't have many 12 year old friends. Even if their an older mark (no internet maybe?) I doubt many of us have friends that would fall into what we would consider a mark. Some might not be as "in the know" as we are but I doubt any of us have access to say even a respectable sample size of "marks" to know what they think. So really anytime anyone on the internet proclaims that the marks hate this guy, or that the marks don't enjoy this. Its basically rooted in biased opinion.

Either we want to play psychologist for a moment and say "if I didn't know what I know how would I look at this" but that might as well be somebody rich trying to look at things from a poor mans perspective its impossible. All you're going to come up with is what you either see as their reactions and views or essentially sub consciously just plaster them with the same views we have. Some things can't be judged and I think the "non smart" wrestling fans thoughts are one of them.

There still isn't and likely never will be some magical number that tells us what percentage of fans are reading the dirt sheets and know the backstage stuff (I still bet its less than 25 percent of total fans) and how many people just casually watch RAW just like its an episode of Law and Order as in they take what they are shown on the screen and go from there without digigng into what actors wanted more screen time and better roles, etc.

If Miz's win didn't convince people that WWE's audience still has a healthy number of marks, nothing will. And the idea that these marks are so workrate obsessed that they're going to turn from the product if a match isn't great is just preposterous. Remember how we all turned on Hulk Hogan after he had a bad match with Andre?

There is no question but that Wade Barrett is ready to be champion. Beyond having a great look that reminds me of a less bulky Triple H circa 1996, he's got charisma that is off the charts for a rookie. He's generating some of the best heat of any guy in the company, and has been for months. Beyond which, with two brands and two top titles, being champion today isn't the same pressure to produce it was 20 or even 10 years ago. I mean Orton and Batista were champs on Raw last year without main eventing pay per views because Hardy was the hottest act in the company at that point. Two years ago Punk's title reign saw him main event exactly zero pay per views, to the point that he was taken out before a main event that he was actually scheduled in.

And like you said, as much love as we have for guys like Triple H or the Rock for their role in the Attitude era, neither was anything that special in the ring. Rock was very athletic and could generate more heat with his facial expressions than just about anybody I've ever seen, but his offense never looked amazing and actually became more limited as he started working longer matches; when he was an upper midcarder he still did flip-around DDT's and Samoan Drops and other big athletic spots, but as he transitioned into a main eventer, he dialed those back, the same way Cena and every other WWE main eventer dials back their offense to fit the main event style.

[The Shape]

Didn't see SS, but the reaction to Orton/Barrett on Raw, never mind Miz cashing in, would suggest the fans were perfectly happy with the match xD

[djthefunkchris]

Down here in Mayberry, no one believes wrestling is "real", so there are no true "Marks" in that scense of the word... although there are a huge amount of wrestling fans in general.

The closest thing I seen to someone actually believing wrestling is real, is when they say "Sometimes one of them will get mad and hit them for real" and bring up times when people get hurt for real as example's. That's about as close as it gets, and unless they are 12 years old or younger, I really doubt your going to get any closer to that unless they just don't watch it period.

It's a soap opera for men is the closest thing I can think of when explaining it. Most people that watch it arent reading dirt sheets, nor do they think about stuff like who should be pushed, and probably don't know most of the terms we use here (like push, face, heel, etc.).

Miz is awesome, and that's the only reason people like him.

EDIT/Example: Even when I was a kid, and I expect most of you might have done something similar... We used to "play wrestling" with using trees and such as the ring posts. We used to act like we were hitting each other by stomping our foot at the same time we punch. Thought that was really cool to know how to do at like age 6.... I had no idea what Push, Face, Heel, tweener, etc.. meant, and didn't care at that time. I just knew that it was fun and it was fake... I wanted to believe it was real sometimes, but I never really did.

[crownsy]

sad, sad news, the swagger soaring eagle (spoilers in white)

Was killed today by hornswaggle via bow and arrow, after being mistaken for a turkey ala hot shots.

Can't wait to see this, they played the eagle perfectly, and good job killing it off now, before it got tired. Love how they let swagger embrace his corney side a bit while still being a big physical heel

to my mind thats swaggers best gimmick, when he's a slightly crazy paradoy of a badass who can still actually, you know, kill you in the ring

[Stennick]

He's Kurt Angle from 1999 in 2010.

[crownsy]

He's Kurt Angle from 1999 in 2010.

I'd disagree, Kurt was more of a technical beast sold with a gimmick of being over the top goofy and oblivious to his goofyness when face, and a "no gimmick needed" BA when heel.

Swagger's sold as more of a frat boy who just doesn't care that people think he's corney because he can overpower anyone he wants.

There similar of course, in a ton of ways, but i wouldn't say it's a straight rip of the gimmick. Not for lack of trying on the E's part though.

[SaySo]

WWE is in the process of changing all Raw house show lineups from John Cena to Juan Cena, who will be Cena most likely under a mask, billed as his Mexican cousin, and doing the old Midnight Rider gimmick.

Credit: Wrestling Observer

[20LEgend]

WWE is in the process of changing all Raw house show lineups from John Cena to Juan Cena, who will be Cena most likely under a mask, billed as his Mexican cousin, and doing the old Midnight Rider gimmick.

Credit: Wrestling Observer

This is a joke... right?

Having googled it someones set up a Juan Cena Twitter, and I hope this isn't real

[SaySo]

http://twitter.com/JuanCenaWWE

LoL. I remember Hogan don the Mr. America mask and so on. I thought Cena would go under Mr. Universe. However, hopefully the Masked Juan Cena actually do appear.

I got the article from wrestlingforums. Maybe someone there came up with a scam. Let's wait and see though.

Remember The Miz got kicked out of WWE last year. There was a contract on a pole match between Eugene and The Calgary Kid...who was The Miz, in the Summer of 2009.

[Slim Jim]

Pretty sure it's just for house shows, and he won't be appearing as "Juan" on Raw. Fans will have already bought tickets (presumably) for the upcoming house shows, on the assumption that Cena will be there. WWE are keeping kayfabe in a light-hearted way (in that Cena is "fired") but without pulling him from shows where people have paid to see him.

[Teh_Showtime]

Does anyone else think Morrison is gonna challenge for the title at the Rumble?

He obviously won't win it, but every year starting at SS, they push someone and that guy starts building momentum going into the new year. For the last 2 years the notable ones have won the title at TLC/Armaggedeon (Sheamus/Jeff Hardy) but the Royal Rumble title matches generally have guys won aren't the main event mainstays at the moment in them.

Last year it was Orton challenging Sheamus (who just won the title) and Rey Challenging Taker.

I don't consider Rey someone who's not a mainstay on SD, but really nobody thought he would upset Taker right around his peaking months.

Just my $0.02 but with Morrison's win over a HEAVILY protected Sheamus as of late (I mean, he had to have a double count out with Show at Bragging Rights) Morrison looks like he will be the first new contender for the Miz's title.

It could be good, it could be great, but it could also epically backfire as the main event which is why it will happen at the Rumble where it won't be pressured to be the best match on the show.

[Stennick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoIH30gh0hE&playnext=1&list=PL09DEF0FF10740E20&index=10

[Johnny Fenoli]

The younger brother of Dolph Ziggler, Ryan Nemeth, 26, started training with OVW in Louisville about four months ago. He’s said to be a taller, better looking version of Ziggler who is past his brother as a pro at
this stage of the game. He also has an MA in English from Xavier University and is the author of a novel titled, I Can Make Out With Any Girl Here.

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a4/65/68679df2621d0a7f0235b8.L._V184663266_SL290_.jpg

[ampulator]

If Miz's win didn't convince people that WWE's audience still has a healthy number of marks, nothing will. And the idea that these marks are so workrate obsessed that they're going to turn from the product if a match isn't great is just preposterous. Remember how we all turned on Hulk Hogan after he had a bad match with Andre?

There is no question but that Wade Barrett is ready to be champion. Beyond having a great look that reminds me of a less bulky Triple H circa 1996, he's got charisma that is off the charts for a rookie. He's generating some of the best heat of any guy in the company, and has been for months. Beyond which, with two brands and two top titles, being champion today isn't the same pressure to produce it was 20 or even 10 years ago. I mean Orton and Batista were champs on Raw last year without main eventing pay per views because Hardy was the hottest act in the company at that point. Two years ago Punk's title reign saw him main event exactly zero pay per views, to the point that he was taken out before a main event that he was actually scheduled in.

And like you said, as much love as we have for guys like Triple H or the Rock for their role in the Attitude era, neither was anything that special in the ring. Rock was very athletic and could generate more heat with his facial expressions than just about anybody I've ever seen, but his offense never looked amazing and actually became more limited as he started working longer matches; when he was an upper midcarder he still did flip-around DDT's and Samoan Drops and other big athletic spots, but as he transitioned into a main eventer, he dialed those back, the same way Cena and every other WWE main eventer dials back their offense to fit the main event style.
Here's the problem, though. The Miz is IWC-approved. That throws a kink in what you say. Plus, the Miz is actually better in the ring than Cena, Orton, or Barrett. Does he have a deeper move set? Not by much, but he can that Cena, Orton, and Barrett can't do, is, he can do more with less. Those three? They can't. Miz can also work in match with better opponents without looking totally out of his element or looking like he's out-classed. The same cannot be said for the previous three.

To say Miz isn't better in the ring than in the ring is a disservice to his hard work at trying to get better, evein the in the ring.

[Genadi]

Here's the problem, though. The Miz is IWC-approved. That throws a kink in what you say. Plus, the Miz is actually better in the ring than Cena, Orton, or Barrett.

I wouldn't go as far as to say The Miz is IWC approved. I disagree about him being a better worker than Orton and even Cena, it's largely subjective though so meh.

[Stennick]

I have no idea what you're basing your in ring work on but in my opinion both Barrett and Cena are better and Orton may be as well.

I like The Miz, I like him a lot, but he's barely approved on these boards with I'd say a 60/40 reaction in favor of him winning the title.

That being said The Miz has come a long way and I recognize his hard work.

[ampulator]

How is ring work better? He doesn't look stiff when he does he moves. He doesn't look awkward and forced in the ring as much as Cena does. He doesn't just goes for "head locks" of doom like Orton did, though Orotn has done them less now. Barrett is just... basic. Sort of like Sheamus. And Drew Mcintyre. And Ted Dibiase Jr. They have nothing wrong with the ringwork, but absolutely positively have ntohing else to it. No ring pscyhology. No technical skills. Not a whole lot of brawling. Definitely no aerial, though I don't think that matters much.

The Miz is shown to be able to mesh with others workers Cena's matches almost always end the same way. There is almost always no doubt on how they will end. Same finish. This is also a problem with Orton's matches, too. The Miz? He work with others, and make them look great. His selling is better than Cena's and Orton's. His matches tend to be more exciting and interesting.

And I thought the mIz sucked. But he has more tools and range, and he meshes better with other workers. Cena or Orton, the matches are almost always the same. Miz's matches currently are much more dynamic and interesting than theirs. I would say he's almost as good as Cody Rhodes... except he's more popular than Rhodes for some reason.

[Comradebot]

How is ring work better? He doesn't look stiff when he does he moves. He doesn't look awkward and forced in the ring as much as Cena does. He doesn't just goes for "head locks" of doom like Orton did, though Orotn has done them less now. Barrett is just... basic. Sort of like Sheamus. And Drew Mcintyre. And Ted Dibiase Jr. They have nothing wrong with the ringwork, but absolutely positively have ntohing else to it. No ring pscyhology. No technical skills. Not a whole lot of brawling. Definitely no aerial, though I don't think that matters much.

The Miz is shown to be able to mesh with others workers Cena's matches almost always end the same way. There is almost always no doubt on how they will end. Same finish. This is also a problem with Orton's matches, too. The Miz? He work with others, and make them look great. His selling is better than Cena's and Orton's. His matches tend to be more exciting and interesting.

And I thought the mIz sucked. But he has more tools and range, and he meshes better with other workers. Cena or Orton, the matches are almost always the same. Miz's matches currently are much more dynamic and interesting than theirs. I would say he's almost as good as Cody Rhodes... except he's more popular than Rhodes for some reason.

Maybe because you couldn't fill a thimble with Rhodes's charisma?

[Self]

Maybe because you couldn't fill a thimble with Rhodes's charisma?

Did you see his freak out at getting slapped at Survivor Series??? That was pretty much the highlight of the entire show.

[Candyman]

Does anyone else think Morrison is gonna challenge for the title at the Rumble?

He obviously won't win it, but every year starting at SS, they push someone and that guy starts building momentum going into the new year. For the last 2 years the notable ones have won the title at TLC/Armaggedeon (Sheamus/Jeff Hardy) but the Royal Rumble title matches generally have guys won aren't the main event mainstays at the moment in them.

Last year it was Orton challenging Sheamus (who just won the title) and Rey Challenging Taker.

I don't consider Rey someone who's not a mainstay on SD, but really nobody thought he would upset Taker right around his peaking months.

Just my $0.02 but with Morrison's win over a HEAVILY protected Sheamus as of late (I mean, he had to have a double count out with Show at Bragging Rights) Morrison looks like he will be the first new contender for the Miz's title.

It could be good, it could be great, but it could also epically backfire as the main event which is why it will happen at the Rumble where it won't be pressured to be the best match on the show.

Yeah, Royal Rumble is always a popular place for somebody to get their first crack at a title. Guys like Umaga, Kennedy, Mark Henry, and Hardcore Holly come to mind. On a card with Kane vs. Edge, Cena vs. Barrett, and the Royal Rumble match, Miz vs. Morrison would have no pressure on it.

[The Celt]

Comradebot: Cody Rhodes has no zero charisma

CB, may I remind you of something?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nq7cHl4OlM

[djthefunkchris]

Comradebot: Cody Rhodes has no zero charisma

CB, may I remind you of something?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nq7cHl4OlM

I think he lacks charisma, but I also think he can "learn" how to project more (maybe watch old re-runs of his dad).

That doesn't mean he can't talk though. I have always been impressed with his mic skills, but those are two different characteristics. You can talk a great talk, but if no one listens, that's all it is... talk.

An example I just thought of is Rey Mysterio... Probably not the best example, but it's the one that just popped in my mind. Rey doesn't have half the mic skills of Cody IMO, but when he talks, everyone listens. That's charisma.

[ampulator]

Maybe because you couldn't fill a thimble with Rhodes's charisma?
I think Cody Rhodes has a lot of Charisma. I thiink the real issue, people just don't "buy" into him. It is what it is. I mean, if you want to talk about a lack of charisma, Ted Jr, Drew McIntyre, and Sheamus are dull as wood. Wade isn't the most charismatic, but his good on the mic, which makes up for it.

Cody has plent of charisma, it's just that, people don't buy into him and his style. I can see people disliking his old-school style. In fact, the WWE fans seem to dislike most "old-school" stuff anyway, so...

[PeterHilton]

Good lord, ampulator, it's like we're not even watching the same show/promotion. No wonder we never agree.

On this page alone you've said The Miz is a better and more exciting worker than Cena (even though Cena has years of matches to go through and just his matches with HBK and Angle alone would prove you wrong, not to mention the fact he made Umaga look good and even Khali look acceptable) and called Sheamus 'dull as wood' when just a few months back Sheamus has the crowd eating up his act as the top heel in his feuds with HHH and Orton.

I know it's all opinions but...wow..just wow

[ampulator]

Good lord, ampulator, it's like we're not even watching the same show/promotion. No wonder we never agree.

On this page alone you've said The Miz is a better and more exciting worker than Cena (even though Cena has years of matches to go through and just his matches with HBK and Angle alone would prove you wrong, not to mention the fact he made Umaga look good and even Khali look acceptable) and called Sheamus 'dull as wood' when just a few months back Sheamus has the crowd eating up his act as the top heel in his feuds with HHH and Orton.

I know it's all opinions but...wow..just wow
Oh Sheamus has mic skills, I'd give him that. But he isn't exactly charismatic. As for his work with HBK, I hated those matches. Easily not HBK's top matches. His matches with Angle? He's WRESTLING KURT ANGLE. If you have bad matches with him, you know you are screwing up. And besides, Angle did all the wrestling in his matches against Cena. Not impressed. As for Umaga, you bring up a good point. I don't know why those work together. But they do. I suppose it has more to do with the natural understanding between in the ring, though. Umaga is decent worker, but not great. As for Khali? His matches are just plain not good. I don't really complain about Khali, though, because... well, it's Khali. What the heck can except out of him?

As for Sheamus, good on the mic, but not a whole of charisma. Kind of Drew McIntyre except with less accent and better at organizing at his words. But also like him, not a whole lot of charisma. I dont' hate Sheamus either. I just can't get angry or mad at anything he does. I just don't feel anything. Period.

And as s reference, I don't think Orton has a lot of charisma, either. But he has a good gimmick, which helps. For me, Rey Mysterio has charism. JoMo has charisma, even though he blows on the mic. Jeff Hardy has Charisma. The MIz. The Rock. Stone Cold. VinceMac. C.M. Punk. Edge. I can go on. Sheamus isn't one of those people.

[PeterHilton]

RE Sheamus: Considering the reactions he got from the crowd I think the more fair way of putting it is that he's just not your personal cup of tea. YOU don't like him but it appears as though most of the crowd bought into him from a charisma standpoint

RE Cena: :rolleyes:

Fine ...whatever..if your evaluation of a worker involves snarky internet ideas like 'work rate' and 'move set' then Cena is a TERRIBLE worker. Awful. But so are guys like Hogan, Sting, The Rock, Kevin Nash, and Austin (post neck injury)

But if you get over yourself and realize wrestling is about entertainment and the purpose is to get fans emotionally invested in what's happening in the ring then you'd see that all of those guys - including Cena - are far better than they're given credit for. Which is why they're among the most successful in the industry.

Cena has made guys like Bobby Lashley, Umaga, and yes even Khali look interesting in the ring. The crowd was into it. And his matches with HBK and Angle were even rated highly by internet columnists like Meltzer.

YOU don't like him. I get that. But if the 90% of the viewing public is willing to pay hard money to watch him - either to root for or against - then he's doing something right and he is (by the only definition of wrestling that matters, his ability to draw)a good worker.

[ampulator]

RE Sheamus: Considering the reactions he got from the crowd I think the more fair way of putting it is that he's just not your personal cup of tea. YOU don't like him but it appears as though most of the crowd bought into him from a charisma standpoint

RE Cena: :rolleyes:

Fine ...whatever..if your evaluation of a worker involves snarky internet ideas like 'work rate' and 'move set' then Cena is a TERRIBLE worker. Awful. But so are guys like Hogan, Sting, The Rock, Kevin Nash, and Austin (post neck injury)

But if you get over yourself and realize wrestling is about entertainment and the purpose is to get fans emotionally invested in what's happening in the ring then you'd see that all of those guys - including Cena - are far better than they're given credit for. Which is why they're among the most successful in the industry.

Cena has made guys like Bobby Lashley, Umaga, and yes even Khali look interesting in the ring. The crowd was into it. And his matches with HBK and Angle were even rated highly by internet columnists like Meltzer.

YOU don't like him. I get that. But if the 90% of the viewing public is willing to pay hard money to watch him - either to root for or against - then he's doing something right and he is (by the only definition of wrestling that matters, his ability to draw)a good worker.
You wrong. It's not that I don't like him. It's... I just don't care. I don't even hate him, to be honest. I just can't get myself to care about him.

And more importantly, just because the majority says something is good, doesn't mean it is. It just merely means a majority says it's good. Are they right a lot of times? Yes. But they are also wrong a lot of times.

Me liking Sheamus has nothing to do with my evaluation. I don't hate or like him. I'm close to neutral on him as anyone can be.

Cena? It's not that I dislike him. It's just that, no matter what anyone says to me, no one has shown me enough evidence that he is, in fact, a good worker. Can he get a reaction out of a certain kind of fan? Yes. Can he get a good reaction ouf of a certain kind of a fan? Yes. Does that means he's a good worker? No.

And his matches against HBK and Angle? they are HBK and Kurt angle. Guess what? LIke I said before, if you have matches with them, you must be really bad. It's really hard to screw against those two.

You and I will rarely see eye-to-eye. I've come to accept that. In 10 or so years, I'd be gone, and YOU will be the one complaining about how wrestling has gone downhill. Then you'll realize whether I'm right or wrong. I suspect it's the first.

[Self]

Cena may or may not only be good at playing to one kind of fan, but when it's the type of fans who watch the biggest promotion in North America, and clamor for merchandise, you can do a lot worse. I'd rather make a ton of money than be a versatile, multi-faceted worker. Haven't watched a Cena match in ages, but that's more down to my dislike of the WWE style than his own work.

I wouldn't say Sheamus has a great deal of 'charisma' but I do think he has 'presence'. A unique and interesting look, I find he looks more convincingly formidable than the Drew McIntyres of the world. He isn't yet exceptional enough to be a narrative force by himself, but when paired with a strong, beloved babyface, I find him an effective and capable foil.

[ampulator]

Cena may or may not only be good at playing to one kind of fan, but when it's the type of fans who watch the biggest promotion in North America, and clamor for merchandise, you can do a lot worse. I'd rather make a ton of money than be a versatile, multi-faceted worker. Haven't watched a Cena match in ages, but that's more down to my dislike of the WWE style than his own work.

I wouldn't say Sheamus has a great deal of 'charisma' but I do think he has 'presence'. A unique and interesting look, I find he looks more convincingly formidable than the Drew McIntyres of the world. He isn't yet exceptional enough to be a narrative force by himself, but when paired with a strong, beloved babyface, I find him an effective and capable foil.
That's a better point to make, especially on Sheamus.

[PeterHilton]

Cena? It's not that I dislike him. It's just that, no matter what anyone says to me, no one has shown me enough evidence that he is, in fact, a good worker. Can he get a reaction out of a certain kind of fan? Yes. Can he get a good reaction ouf of a certain kind of a fan? Yes. Does that means he's a good worker? No.



Yes, it does.

Because that 'certain type of fan' makes up the vast majority of the audience that watches the programming, buys PPVs, and pays for merchandise. Who gives a crap if internet nerds like him? Why does anyone need to provide 'evidence?'

Being a 'good worker' means you get people to pay to watch you. I've read interviews with everyone from Bill Watts to Bobby Heenan to Jim Cornette and they all say the same thing: if people pay to watch you, you're a good worker. Period. And I'd stand buy their opinion 1000 times over before I care what a bunch of smarks on a message board say.

So knock yourself out talking about he's a bad worker. Because it's just YOU. That's all. YOU are entitled to YOUR opinion but that's all it is. Cena has generated millions of dollars in revenue for the biggest promotion on the planet...that means A LOT more than whether or not he pleases the IWC