The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Teh_Showtime]

HHH's favorite match is buried alive match LOL

if he does his Undertaker thing where he comes back, establishes himself and then puts someone over and then goes on another break to keep himself fresh.

Rinse and repeat

[Slagaholic]

I watched about 4 minutes of Smackdown. Anyone else think Booker is terrible announcing?

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I watched about 4 minutes of Smackdown. Anyone else think Booker is terrible announcing?

Haven't heard him yet but I liked what he did on commentary during that Benoit feud way back when.

How relevant that is now I don't know.

[supershot]

Wtf! They ended it before the rest of the team went into the ring and everyone chanting Go Pack Go! :mad:

Ohh well still an awesome ending

[jwt13]

I watched about 4 minutes of Smackdown. Anyone else think Booker is terrible announcing?

I dont watch Smackdown (just because still haven'set my DVR frm th move toSyFy) but if its anything like Black Snow during the MEM in TNA its gold

[1234]

I dont watch Smackdown (just because still haven'set my DVR frm th move toSyFy) but if its anything like Black Snow during the MEM in TNA its gold

Its not like Black Snow. He is trying to be more serious and being a mix of colour commentator and just a standard announcer. It also doesnt help that Michael Cole just contradicts everything Booker says.

[Linsolv]

You know what I want to see, actually? I want to see Taker against Barrett, have the Corre come out and Taker clean house. Then I want to see Barrett hit his finisher, maybe build a little more, maybe not, and then have someone interfere to make Barrett lose.

I know it kinda makes things unpleasant for previous folks who lost to Taker to have him decked out and win by interference, but I'd like to see Barrett get a certain amount of rub from Taker—though I don't think he deserves the streak.

Could just be me though. I might be stupid. :O

[djthefunkchris]

Wrestlemania...

Here's my thoughts on what I think they should always do.

They should have the most popular/biggest draws fight (heel vs. face). They should always do this unless it would mean a repeat. Younger guys that aren't as popular and don't draw as much should be used for lower card positions at Wrestlemania. They should have a chance to shine all by themselves without the bigger names. The Main Event title's to me should always be a power thing between the biggest names. There is no reason you should be worried about giving someone a rub during Wrestlemania in the Main Event title scene. This should be left for lower level cards.

In other words, I dissagree with 100's of people, lol.

I've always felt that the undercards should be built up in a way to really shine at Wrestlemania though. Make bigger deals out of the title's.... they haven't done this in years though. Oh... Kofi has a mid-level title and is going after a very popular newcomer.... But that Newcomer is going to be in the Main Event at Wrestlemania. I honestly don't mind that though, because that particular Newcomer come in looking like a Main Eventer, and talks like a Main Eventer and in the ring, comes off as a Main Eventer. Fact is, he's one of the most entertaining people on the roster to me. So I don't mind him....

I wanted to make that last point, so people don't try to say I want to keep the new guys down. That's not it at all. I'm totally speaking from a PPV money point of view. You set up David vs. Goliath, or Superman vs. Lex Luthor, or whatever... but you don't set up Catwoman vs. The Spoiler for a Main event at Wrestlemania.... Luke vs. Darth Vader, not Luke vs. Lando.

[dvdWarrior]

Wrestlemania...

Here's my thoughts on what I think they should always do.

They should have the most popular/biggest draws fight (heel vs. face). They should always do this unless it would mean a repeat. Younger guys that aren't as popular and don't draw as much should be used for lower card positions at Wrestlemania. They should have a chance to shine all by themselves without the bigger names. The Main Event title's to me should always be a power thing between the biggest names. There is no reason you should be worried about giving someone a rub during Wrestlemania in the Main Event title scene. This should be left for lower level cards.

In other words, I dissagree with 100's of people, lol.

I've always felt that the undercards should be built up in a way to really shine at Wrestlemania though. Make bigger deals out of the title's.... they haven't done this in years though. Oh... Kofi has a mid-level title and is going after a very popular newcomer.... But that Newcomer is going to be in the Main Event at Wrestlemania. I honestly don't mind that though, because that particular Newcomer come in looking like a Main Eventer, and talks like a Main Eventer and in the ring, comes off as a Main Eventer. Fact is, he's one of the most entertaining people on the roster to me. So I don't mind him....

I wanted to make that last point, so people don't try to say I want to keep the new guys down. That's not it at all. I'm totally speaking from a PPV money point of view. You set up David vs. Goliath, or Superman vs. Lex Luthor, or whatever... but you don't set up Catwoman vs. The Spoiler for a Main event at Wrestlemania.... Luke vs. Darth Vader, not Luke vs. Lando.

I very much agree with this post - the only problem is that, these days, Luke's already fought Darth Vader so many times, (who could ever forget their epic saber dual at the Royal Rumble?), that you kinda HAVE to go with Luke vs Boba Fett at Mania. It's all part of the too much, too fast, GIMME GIMME GIMME NOW!!!! mentality of the modern era. Luke vs Boba can still be pretty good though, (I substituted Fett for Lando because the Star Wars WWE would never go face vs. face at WrestleMania).

I'm secretly hoping it's not gonna be Del Rio vs Edge vs Ziggler vs Kingston in a four way, (just because I think Mania main events should be one on one). I honestly think Triple H vs The Undertaker (with HBK as ref) could be pretty darn good, and is possily the best bet at this point to get that big WrestleMania feel. I'm sure whatever they come up with will work out well enough though.

:)

Off the record: Couldn't help but get a smile after seeing Joey Styles on the ECW show I just watched on WWE COD, barfing at the mere thought of WWE's relaunched ECW. That kinda made my day, wonder how he feels about TNA's version.

[sabataged]

I personally wish we could get some more build up and do the HHH vs Taker Next year. We already have two potentionaly good match ups between Sheamus vs HHH and Taker vs Barrett

With a Taker vs HHH match up, where the hell does this leave Barrett or even Sheamus. These two guys can potentionally give these realtive newbies a WM rub and put on an excellent match with them.

[MrOnu]

I personally wish we could get some more build up and do the HHH vs Taker Next year. We already have two potentionaly good match ups between Sheamus vs HHH and Taker vs Barrett

With a Taker vs HHH match up, where the hell does this leave Barrett or even Sheamus. These two guys can potentionally give these realtive newbies a WM rub and put on an excellent match with them.

Barrett could be thrown in a multi-man tag match pitting Nexus againt Corre. Something along the lines of Barret/Slater/Gabriel/Jackson vs Otunga/Ryan/McGuillicuty/Harris that would still keep Punk in match against Orton (even thought I think they might go fatal four way with Miz and Cena).

As Sheamus, well, it's not like his stock is very high at the moment. He's probably going to end up in a multi-man filler match somewhere in the undercard. There's always one match thrown together just to get a PPV bonus to more wrestlers.

[jwt13]

I call N.W.O V. Corre at wrestlemania have Nash, Show, and put a couple new guys in there with them

[MattitudeV2]

I call N.W.O V. Corre at wrestlemania have Nash, Show, and put a couple new guys in there with them

So obvious it's corre (Gabriel,Slater and Jackson) vs. nexus (Otunga, McGilicutty and Ryan)

[Linsolv]

Barrett could be thrown in a multi-man tag match pitting Nexus againt Corre. Something along the lines of Barret/Slater/Gabriel/Jackson vs Otunga/Ryan/McGuillicuty/Harris that would still keep Punk in match against Orton (even thought I think they might go fatal four way with Miz and Cena).

As Sheamus, well, it's not like his stock is very high at the moment. He's probably going to end up in a multi-man filler match somewhere in the undercard. There's always one match thrown together just to get a PPV bonus to more wrestlers.

Multi-man tag matches are stupid, and giving one to Barrett in lieu of a match against Taker, even a loss that isn't close, would be almost a slap in the face.

[Jaysin]

Elimination Chamber(still a horrible name for a pay per view...) is still a week away, but here's my predictions so far. Could change after Raw and Smackdown this week, but I doubt it.

The Miz vs Jerry Lawler- Does anyone really think Lawler wins this? If so...Really? REALLY?!

Raw Elimination Chamber- Cena wins leading to Miz vs Cena at Wrestlemania in my Wrestlemania fast forward match of the night.

Smackdown Elimination Chamber- Edge retains. Why would they set up Del Rio vs Edge and then take the belt off him before Wrestlemania?

Both Chamber matches should be pretty fun this year at least.

I'm also expecting Kofi vs Del Rio somewhere on the card and probably a horrible divas match involving LayBoring.

[Fantabulous]

The Miz vs Jerry Lawler- Does anyone really think Lawler wins this? If so...Really? REALLY?!

Raw Elimination Chamber- Cena wins leading to Miz vs Cena at Wrestlemania in my Wrestlemania fast forward match of the night.

Smackdown Elimination Chamber- Edge retains. Why would they set up Del Rio vs Edge and then take the belt off him before Wrestlemania? .

These are the expected finishes because they make the most sense but I would not rule out WWE throwing a curveball and change one of them to surprise people but then get back to the planned direction on the following Raw or Smackdown. If WWE do pull out a surprise ending, I would peg it for Miz/Lawler so that the rematch can be the main event on Raw and Raw can end with Cole screwing Lawler out of the title so the last scene on Raw leads directly to one of the most heated matches at Wrestlemania. If the idea is for Cole to screw Lawler then I think doing it at the end of a show would be better than to do it in the middle of one, plus I think it adds more heat if Cole screws Lawler and causes him to lose the title rather than to prevent him from winning it, because we've seen that one already.

[SaySo]

Possible? Spoiler on WM Guest Host? Highlight below

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson's official Facebook page has posted the following simple message:

"...FINALLY..." Get ready... DJ

The message was accompanied by an old picture of the Rock posing on the turnbuckle of a wrestling ring. Hundreds of Rock's Facebook followers have commented on the post assuming that he is referring to a return to WWE as WrestleMania's guest host. And the speculation continues!

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I will mark the f out if so.

[Teh_Showtime]

Strong opener tonight, great deal of storytelling in that match.

[Teh_Showtime]

Let's expand smackdown to monday nights.

Nevermind the fact that Daniel Bryan probably will only get 5 minutes of ring time tonight.

[MattitudeV2]

Let's expand smackdown to monday nights.

Nevermind the fact that Daniel Bryan probably will only get 5 minutes of ring time tonight.

I agree with a hint of sarcasm I mean who could of thought 2/21/11 meant the Undertaker

Is Daniel Bryan=Tim Meadows of SNL Fame because he is THE LADIES MAN!!!

[SaySo]

2.11.11 promo this week had UnderTaker shown inside the building. The question, who was that standing outside it?

[jwt13]

2.11.11 promo this week had UnderTaker shown inside the building. The question, who was that standing outside it?

Not sting

[Teh_Showtime]

I miss HHH now that I think about it.

[supershot]

Wow is it just me or is it HILARIOUS to hear Michael Cole call Jerry an Egomaniac :D

[Teh_Showtime]

the attitude era freakin sucked.

the matches were generally TERRIBLE and the angles had twice the screen time of the matches.

The shock value is the only reason people even liked it imo. I just don't see how this was appealing at all. I like good mic work, but seriously%

[TheEdgeOfReason]

the attitude era freakin sucked.

the matches were generally TERRIBLE and the angles had twice the screen time of the matches.

The shock value is the only reason people even liked it imo. I just don't see how this was appealing at all. I like good mic work, but seriously%

I will just disagree and leave it at that.

[ampulator]

I will just disagree and leave it at that.
I will agree with you with and leave it at that, myself. :)

[jwt13]

the attitude era freakin sucked.

the matches were generally TERRIBLE and the angles had twice the screen time of the matches.

The shock value is the only reason people even liked it imo. I just don't see how this was appealing at all. I like good mic work, but seriously%

I disagree and think it was the best period of wrestling

[Teh_Showtime]

don't really want it to be a big discussion, but im not fond of short matches and multiple no-finishes.

PPVs were generally good, but weekly TV was pretty meh.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Ugh it isn't the hot girl from Modern Family.

[Teh_Showtime]

Holy Crap

edit: thought the lightning was sting... oh well good number 2

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes

[Tha Black Phenom]

This.. is surreal.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

He's back permanently?

This is amazing, marking like a little girl lol

[Teh_Showtime]

never ever going away?

can't be serious.... I will mark the F out

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Going for the streak?

OMG I will mark from now til mania

[Teh_Showtime]

Rock is friggin golden

[Tha Black Phenom]

Lol, he doesn't give two square nuts about PG. Golden.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Lol, he doesn't give two square nuts about PG. Golden.

The best thing is there isn't much WWE can do about it. He'll be too valuable to tone down.

[Teh_Showtime]

This is by far the most epic segment in the last 7 years.

[mjdgoldeneye]

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMOMG

I haven't watched the WWE is months and months and months, but I just marked so hard when Facebook statuses directed me to USA.

:)

[jwt13]

So he's back for good even after mania? That awesome que the amazing ratings

[Prophet]

Lol, he doesn't give two square nuts about PG. Golden.

I loved how they tried to censor him, and just realized it was a futile effort.

[Teh_Showtime]

a Rock/Cena feud seems to be post mania.

Cue the ratings indeed

co-poster boy for the Attitude Era vs Poster boy for the PG era

[Wrestling Century]

The Great One has returned to whip PG's candy ass! :eek: :D Awesome! Yes! Sweet! Words cannot describe how I feel about one of my favorite wrestlers of all time returning!

[mjdgoldeneye]

My realistic, cynical side tells me this MIGHT just be a means of hyping Battle: Los Angeles, but I hope not.

[Teh_Showtime]

The Great One has returned to whip PG's candy ass!

Found this amusing

[Bigpapa42]

The WWE just went from pretty meh to awesome in a big hurry. Awesome work. The Rock makes WM much much much more interesting.

[Bigpapa42]

My realistic, cynical side tells me this MIGHT just be a means of hyping Battle: Los Angeles, but I hope not.

Uh... Rock isn't in that.

[supershot]

I cant believe he just said hes never ever leaving!!!!!!!!!

He just made Cena look horrible for how Cena toned down his language

WrestleMania 27 just got its WrestleMania feel!

[LoganRodzen]

Wow. :eek:

[Teh_Showtime]

odds the crowd started a "THAT WAS AWESOME" chant when raw went off air?

[mjdgoldeneye]

Uh... Rock isn't in that.

Excuse me, Fast Five. I saw the ads next to each other in at the movies and got them confused... :p

[supershot]

Excuse me

Gotcha Vicky ;)

[Sons of Kohral]

I accidently walked into my mom and dad watching this. I'm going to start watching RAW.

[mjdgoldeneye]

Gotcha Vicky ;)

:mad:

She's far too effective of a personality to come out of blatant, ill-advised exploitation. :p

[supershot]

I still cant believe what I just saw 40 mins ago..

[Johnny Fenoli]

So, anything interesting happen on Raw tonight?

[Hashasheen]

So, anything interesting happen on Raw tonight?

... The Rock came back.

[supershot]

... The Rock came back.

ya not much else.. average show ya know :rolleyes:

So, anything interesting happen on Raw tonight?

:eek:

[Johnny Fenoli]

... The Rock came back.



LOL, RIIIIIIGHT... and I bet Bobby Heenan was his manager.

[SaySo]

Still stand that there is another man outside the building Taker was in. Someone has entered Taker's yard.

[SaySo]

LOL, RIIIIIIGHT... and I bet Bobby Heenan was his manager.

At first, i thought it was Sting, how they shut the lights and did the lighting pyro thingy. Then the catch phrase sold it offf.

[supershot]

LOL, RIIIIIIGHT... and I bet Bobby Heenan was his manager.

Omg bro you need to find a youtube video or something!

..NOW!

[supershot]

At first, i thought it was Sting, how they shut the lights and did the lighting pyro thingy. Then the catch phrase sold it offf.

I was totally sold on Sting and then the catchphrase it hit and I marked like a little kid again! :)

Edit: sorry for double post

[SaySo]

I was totally sold on Sting and then the catchphrase it hit and I marked like a little kid again! :)

I can't wait for next week.

When the Rock was ending the show, i notice he looked up the rafters, maybe someone was hanging out there. Then again, he does pause a bit at the midway point.

[supershot]

Ya that was a nice hint. They got Kevin Nash, Booker T, Rock, Austin for Tough Enough. It could happen look how many people they brought in so far. Never know.

[Eisen-verse]

:eek:

My wife and I tuned into raw, as it was my pay-off for watching the bachelor before, and all I have to say is wow... We both marked out like hell (as she loves the Rock; would probably forget I was even there if the Rock walked into the room. ha).

It was all just so surreal. I mean, goosebumps are one thing but I found myself just laughing to myself at times like a mad-man; seriously acting as if I were 15 all over again.

2 things though...

1) Damn. Dwayne has bulked up bigger than we've ever seen him before. Between that, and the aged face, it was almost weird to see the man outside of a movie screen.

2) While the whole "Never leaving" thing was appealing, I don't expect to see him stay much, if at all, past Wrestlemania. This is simply a money-feud between Cena & The Rock; culminating at WM 27. I mean, I would LOVE to see him stay past then, as he's insanely talented and extremely fun to watch, but I just don't see him really becoming a consistent figure in the WWE ever again.

In the end, while the Cena/Rock thing is golden, part of me was hoping we would get a HHH/Rock scenario at Wrestlemania. Yea, I know, overplayed, and not all that shocking, but their feud single-handedly made both of them stars back in the late 90's/early 2000's. That was THE feud for quite some time.

All in all, great work WWE for pulling this one off.

[TakerNGN74]

It was definately great to see Rock on Raw tonight, can't wait until next week when Undertaker comes back and hopefully Sting as well but I won't hold my breath.

[Tha Black Phenom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5webrAZSBhY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2la5lDZLa5U

Urrrrrr welcome. Shoddy sound for now, obviously better videos will pop up soon.

[SaySo]

It was definately great to see Rock on Raw tonight, can't wait until next week when Undertaker comes back and hopefully Sting as well but I won't hold my breath.

I have a good feeling it will be. Just how they presented the latest 2.21.11 video. It was like an image of a newcomer walking into Taker's yard. Of course, in the middle on no where and the rain never stops.

[ampulator]

Damn, the Rock can work a crowd. Better than anyone else. The WWE MUST have needed the Rock right now.

[angeldelayette]

I have had a Love/Hate relationship with the Rock. Hated that he left wrestling for acting but he is so damn entertaining when he comes back. I will be completely honest, I marked like a 16 year old girl at a Justin Bieber concert. And if he is back for good? He just singlehandedly became the most entertaining wrestler on any program. Love how the censors tried with him and then gave up. Maybe he can usher back in a more adult-oriented time with professional wrestling and we can lose the PG crap.

[TakerNGN74]

I have a good feeling it will be. Just how they presented the latest 2.21.11 video. It was like an image of a newcomer walking into Taker's yard. Of course, in the middle on no where and the rain never stops.

I didn't notice that when watching the video but now I hope you are right.

[Eisen-verse]

I have had a Love/Hate relationship with the Rock. Hated that he left wrestling for acting but he is so damn entertaining when he comes back. I will be completely honest, I marked like a 16 year old girl at a Justin Bieber concert. And if he is back for good? He just singlehandedly became the most entertaining wrestler on any program. Love how the censors tried with him and then gave up. Maybe he can usher back in a more adult-oriented time with professional wrestling and we can lose the PG crap.

Amen.

Selfishly, I wish he would have stuck around; however, in reality, pro wrestling has become somewhat of a launching pad for people to cross-over into mainstream entertainers (see: Hogan, the Rock, Austin (to an extent), Triple H (to a smaller extent), etc.).

That said, damn... It was great to see him back.

I just re-watched the video again and still had goosebumps; especially as his music first started and you could literally see the entire arena going into a tizzy!

[1234]

I have a good feeling it will be. Just how they presented the latest 2.21.11 video. It was like an image of a newcomer walking into Taker's yard. Of course, in the middle on no where and the rain never stops.

The latest video is very interesting, but unfortunately is still ambiguous. We see 'Taker, so I think we can confirm he is back for Mania. But was the man outside meant to represent Undertaker returning, or Sting (or someone else) stepping into 'Takers yard.

And damn I need to watch Raw before reading the spoilers now. The Great One returned.

WWE now has my full attention again, hopefully they can keep it.

[jesseewiak]

I think Adam needs to allow us to put charisma and mic skills in the next TEW game up to 125 - just for The Rock. Otherwise, any other WWE guy has to be at a maximum of 80 for it to be realistic. :)

[ampulator]

Amen.

Selfishly, I wish he would have stuck around; however, in reality, pro wrestling has become somewhat of a launching pad for people to cross-over into mainstream entertainers (see: Hogan, the Rock, Austin (to an extent), Triple H (to a smaller extent), etc.).

That said, damn... It was great to see him back.

I just re-watched the video again and still had goosebumps; especially as his music first started and you could literally see the entire arena going into a tizzy!
Imagine if this was in Florida or in the Tri-State area. It would have been crazier.

[fatallylost]

Amen.

Selfishly, I wish he would have stuck around; however, in reality, pro wrestling has become somewhat of a launching pad for people to cross-over into mainstream entertainers (see: Hogan, the Rock, Austin (to an extent), Triple H (to a smaller extent), etc.).

That said, damn... It was great to see him back.

I just re-watched the video again and still had goosebumps; especially as his music first started and you could literally see the entire arena going into a tizzy!

I'm pissed I couldn't go.. as I had a feeling he was gonna be there. I know someone who went, and he said the place went insane.

[ampulator]

Hey guys, look at this video of the Ariel Helwani's interview with the Rock a couple of months back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yK0tCki_0c

[Tha Black Phenom]

I'm pissed I couldn't go.. as I had a feeling he was gonna be there. I know someone who went, and he said the place went insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roVZo-Woyyw

[Self]

Watched the Rock thing on Youtube. The only word is "Sqweeeeeeee!". Loved it. The dude is awesome.

Apparently some good wrestling on this show. Might have to check it out.

[juggaloninjalee]

I think Adam needs to allow us to put charisma and mic skills in the next TEW game up to 125 - just for The Rock. Otherwise, any other WWE guy has to be at a maximum of 80 for it to be realistic. :)

I thought the exact same thing! We haven't had any promos in 7 years come close to that. Rock = 100 in charisma, and mic skills. Next top guy would be 80 in mic skills.

[GhostDogg]

OH MY F'N GOD!!!!!!

Ok. So I just walked into the office after loading stuff in the connex, and I see the Rock on TV. I instantly turn from a 33 year old to a 15 year old INSTANTLY! Thank you WRESTLING GODS!! You have finally heard are prayers.

SORRY CENA Your bout to get the Smacketh Down Layeth on your ROOODIIIEEE POOO........(Yall can finish the rest!!)

[Fantabulous]

It'll be funny when Rock goes back to his career because the people who turned into little girls, squealing over his return will be some of the first to revert back to the mantra of Rock turning his back on wrestling.

[Hive]

I don't get it. The Rock has said numerous times that he won't ever wrestle again. It's not even 2 weeks since the last interview I read with him where he said that. So untill The Rock vs. John Cena is actually properly announced as a real match (and not some stupid face off in words), I won't hold my breath.

But even if they do wrestle, I fear a bit that The Rock will put John Cena over as a sort of "passing of the torch"... and I really really don't want to see Cena beat The Rock.

At any rate, this should make sure they'll get a ****load of sales for Wrestlemania - with or without Sting. Though Sting being my all-time favourite wrestler, I'd still love to see that.

[djthefunkchris]

Ok, I'm going to give you my take on the whole speach (I'm Back!).

I guess it's intentionally said to give people the thought that he's actually going to be wrestling and staying in the WWE as a regular wrestler. However, the way he worded it to me, and I listened to it three times now, is different then what everyone else seems to be taking it.

My first thoughts and still my thoughts were he was refering to Wrestling in general. What I mean by this is when he left he seemed to try and seperate his "real" person from "The Rock" persona, and went solely by his real name to go forward seriously as an actor. Bassically trying to lose the connection... However, as time went by we seen more and more of his movie's being promoted during WWE programming. I don't know why, but it seemed like he didn't want that at first, but over a few years become more confortable with it (although I know it wasn't solely his decision... he can't tell the movie companies when and how they promote the movies).

I feel like he meant he won't be trying to disconnect himself from his wrestling background anymore. I don't think he is back in wrestling for good (and don't think that is what he meant). I believe just what he said.... he's not going to leave the FANS again. He will do this Wrestlemania (he hinted toward hosting Raw at one point last year). He might even be involved in storylines from time to time... but I don't expect him to be a member of the roster on a permanant basis (not even a Taker like basis). I do think he just meant that he will be acknowledging his wrestling fans from this point forward, no matter what he does. I think it means we will see a different Dwayne Johnson when those wrestling questions come up in interviews and such... he will be thankfull and respectfull to all the wrestling fans instead of seemingly trying to disconnect from them (Old Dwayne: Wrestling was fun, but I'm concentrating on this right now... New Dwayne: Oh yeah, the Wrestling fans are the greatest in the world!)

Hope that doesn't upset anyone, as I do expect him to be involved up till Wrestlemania and perhaps off and on for a while... but more like in between a Taker and Austin time period (Not as frequent as Taker, but more frequent then Stone Cold... I'm talking on RAW or Smackdown, not Tough Enough or something like that.

[djthefunkchris]

It'll be funny when Rock goes back to his career because the people who turned into little girls, squealing over his return will be some of the first to revert back to the mantra of Rock turning his back on wrestling.

I really don't believe that would be the case as everyone has matured... NOW, if you mean the 16 to 21 or so year olds... maybe.

But as the old saying goes, Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[djthefunkchris]

I don't get it. The Rock has said numerous times that he won't ever wrestle again. It's not even 2 weeks since the last interview I read with him where he said that. So untill The Rock vs. John Cena is actually properly announced as a real match (and not some stupid face off in words), I won't hold my breath.

But even if they do wrestle, I fear a bit that The Rock will put John Cena over as a sort of "passing of the torch"... and I really really don't want to see Cena beat The Rock.

At any rate, this should make sure they'll get a ****load of sales for Wrestlemania - with or without Sting. Though Sting being my all-time favourite wrestler, I'd still love to see that.

Just to play devils advocate here.... No matter if he is or isn't actually back, I don't believe he would have told anyone two weeks ago (I'm sure he's known for longer then two weeks) "Sure, I'd go back in a heartbeat". IT would kill the effect and surprise of this whole Raw if that was the case. Better he keep saying over and over "I can't see myself going back" then giving it all away. I think he's known about this since last year. I believe he meant to "keep" making everyone think he would never be in the ring again, possibly even stressing it stronger, just to make the effect of this show hold more weight.

I don't think he's back in the sense that everyone else does though (See above post).

[crownsy]

I'm not sure what this return will evolve into, but i could see one extended roster return for the rock, for a couple reasons.

1. He's 38. I could see him wanting one last run infront of the live crowd before he just plain can't do it anymore.

2. He tried to expand a little with his acting to serious and comedy, but that really didn't work out. HE's pretty locked in as an action star now, so why not wrestle if he gets a reduced schedule, Ala Cena when working movies or taker? it's not like he's going to get denied a dramatic role in an oscar winner because he's on WWE TV at this point in his movie career.

3. and i know some will hate this reasoning, but with the WWE being established as PG now, he doesn't really have to worry as much about image blowback, again at least as being an action movie star is concerned.

Not saying he will get back in the ring, i think the likely scenario is he doesn't, but i can see why he might.

[juggaloninjalee]

In those interviews he was himself. He doesn't want to wrestle anymore in my opinion. Obviously the only person who truly knows what he wants to do is Dwayne Johnson himself.

If you ask me he may do something at Wrestlemania like get in the ring with Cena as a guest referee for his match only to destroy Cena and Miz at the end of the match with 2 Rock Bottoms followed by a "You can't see me" Peoples Elbow! Can you see him mocking Cena and doing a Peoples Elbow? Oh man that would be great.

Cena and Rock could face each other at next years Mania going on the fact that Rock did that to Cena. Rock wouldn't even have to be on WWE television until this time next year in order to get that match over.

[PeterHilton]

:eek:

My wife and I tuned into raw, as it was my pay-off for watching the bachelor before, and all I have to say is wow... We both marked out like hell (as she loves the Rock; would probably forget I was even there if the Rock walked into the room. ha).

1) Damn. Dwayne has bulked up bigger than we've ever seen him before. Between that, and the aged face, it was almost weird to see the man outside of a movie screen.

2) While the whole "Never leaving" thing was appealing, I don't expect to see him stay much, if at all, past Wrestlemania. This is simply a money-feud between Cena & The Rock; culminating at WM 27. I mean, I would LOVE to see him stay past then, as he's insanely talented and extremely fun to watch, but I just don't see him really becoming a consistent figure in the WWE ever again.



This is 100000% how I felt (even down to my wife being OK with me watching a little wrestling because we watched some of The Bachelor)

He is HUGE. HUGE. I know he bulked up for Fast & Furious Forever or whatevr it's called but holy crap! I'm sure he'll slim down once themovie is released; he got more parts looking more 'normal'

The way he worded it seemed to methat he was giving love to the fans and telling them he'd nevr 'turn away from wrestling' but it wasn't him saying 'I'm coming back to be a full time wrestler'

The Rock is still usccessful enough as an actor and he's made enough money that he's is - at most - a guy who would come back for a WM. But that's it.

But then again, that's still awesome.

I don't get it. The Rock has said numerous times that he won't ever wrestle again. It's not even 2 weeks since the last interview I read with him where he said that. So untill The Rock vs. John Cena is actually properly announced as a real match (and not some stupid face off in words), I won't hold my breath.



To me, it seemed that he was attacking Miz and Cena, and since they will likely be in the main event, it's a perfect way to start setting up for MIz vs Cena with Rock as the ref.

If you ask me he may do something at Wrestlemania like get in the ring with Cena as a guest referee for his match only to destroy Cena and Miz at the end of the match with 2 Rock Bottoms followed by a "You can't see me" Peoples Elbow! Can you see him mocking Cena and doing a Peoples Elbow? Oh man that would be great.

Cena and Rock could face each other at next years Mania going on the fact that Rock did that to Cena. Rock wouldn't even have to be on WWE television until this time next year in order to get that match over.

Totaly agree.

[Hive]

My first thoughts and still my thoughts were he was refering to Wrestling in general. What I mean by this is when he left he seemed to try and seperate his "real" person from "The Rock" persona, and went solely by his real name to go forward seriously as an actor. Bassically trying to lose the connection... However, as time went by we seen more and more of his movie's being promoted during WWE programming. I don't know why, but it seemed like he didn't want that at first, but over a few years become more confortable with it (although I know it wasn't solely his decision... he can't tell the movie companies when and how they promote the movies).

But when he left WWE, he did *not* go by his real name in an attempt to disconnect himself from wrestling... on the contrary, he kept using "The Rock" as his name in movie credits when he first started out in Hollywood. The change to "Dwayne Johnson" came later.

[Hive]

To me, it seemed that he was attacking Miz and Cena, and since they will likely be in the main event, it's a perfect way to start setting up for MIz vs Cena with Rock as the ref.

That would make sense. It should probably be noted that I haven't seen RAW yet myself, and that I'm basing my comments on what I've read in this thread and on wrestling news sites about what The Rock said in his promo.

[ampulator]

Peter Hilton, I can understand where you come from now, though. A star from the past smashes the present... and for what? It makes one uneasy that's for sure.

[djthefunkchris]

But when he left WWE, he did *not* go by his real name in an attempt to disconnect himself from wrestling... on the contrary, he kept using "The Rock" as his name in movie credits when he first started out in Hollywood. The change to "Dwayne Johnson" came later.

I'm not entirely sure this is an accurate statement. I believe he was still using "the Rock" when he was still with the WWE/F... He did like three movies while still technically in the WWE, and dropped "The Rock" from his name right after he left (I might be wrong, as I'm going off memmory/recollection). I know he did the two Mummy movies while still in the WWF/E.

He seemed to me to try and disconnect with the Wrestling, but nicely.... he wasn't "mean" in any way, never bad mouthed anyone, etc. I mean he just never seemed like he wanted to talk about it. To me, it was obvious. I just feel like he is acknowledging that he is able to be both people, without one hurting the other. I actually believe it would have helped him more if he would have been that way to start with.

[ampulator]

I'm not entirely sure this is an accurate statement. I believe he was still using "the Rock" when he was still with the WWE/F... He did like three movies while still technically in the WWE, and dropped "The Rock" from his name right after he left (I might be wrong, as I'm going off memmory/recollection). I know he did the two Mummy movies while still in the WWF/E.

He seemed to me to try and disconnect with the Wrestling, but nicely.... he wasn't "mean" in any way, never bad mouthed anyone, etc. I mean he just never seemed like he wanted to talk about it. To me, it was obvious. I just feel like he is acknowledging that he is able to be both people, without one hurting the other. I actually believe it would have helped him more if he would have been that way to start with.
I think it's not just that, but the stigma of being a "rassler" is almost entirely gone nowadays.

[PeterHilton]

He seemed to me to try and disconnect with the Wrestling, but nicely.... he wasn't "mean" in any way, never bad mouthed anyone, etc. I mean he just never seemed like he wanted to talk about it. To me, it was obvious. I just feel like he is acknowledging that he is able to be both people, without one hurting the other. I actually believe it would have helped him more if he would have been that way to start with.

How so? In all honesty, how exactly has he been 'hurt' by trying to to separate himself from his wrestling persona as he pursued his acting career? How would it have helped...?

Because knowing wrestling nerds, they would hve been bitter either way.

[PeterHilton]

I think it's not just that, but the stigma of being a "rassler" is almost entirely gone nowadays.

REALLY? You don't notice how much grief the mainstream media heaps on thse performers who show up on Raw? Especially during that run of guest hosts?

[FINisher]

Finally..

I get chills running down my spine when watching wrestling.

[ampulator]

REALLY? You don't notice how much grief the mainstream media heaps on thse performers who show up on Raw? Especially during that run of guest hosts?
Yeah, but I think it's an odd double standard. If you are a mainstream star, going to a promote a product on a wrestling show is "beneath" you. But if you are wrestling star trying to make it mainstream, no one really minds (or the more common case, cares).

[PeterHilton]

Yeah, but I think it's an odd double standard. If you are a mainstream star, going to a promote a product on a wrestling show is "beneath" you. But if you are wrestling star trying to make it mainstream, no one really minds (or the more common case, cares).

I guess that's true...but I still think Rocky would not have gotten his run of family movies and comedies if he hadn'te work to show done some people he was serious about being an actor. And part of that was staying away from his wrestling past.

[Eisen-verse]

REALLY? You don't notice how much grief the mainstream media heaps on thse performers who show up on Raw? Especially during that run of guest hosts?

I've found this funny as well. I mean, the WWE pulls in pretty good ratings, sells out arenas across the country, and is about to put on a spectacle that will draw some 75,000 people and YET the mainstream media still treats it in a back-handed fashion. Sure, it may be MORE mainstream than it has in the past but there is still that stigma I feel.

Honestly, I felt when the WWE changed their product to 'sports entertainment', instead of pretending to be a sport, should have been enough to strip away the naysayers. Now, they were no longer trying to seem as a legit form of combat but rather admitting their theatrical ways in a tongue and cheek fashion.

Just seems odd.

[PeterHilton]

Just seems odd.

I've always watched wrestling with non-fans so to me it doesn't seem as odd.

My wife, for instance, hates it because 'it's fake.'

But when I try to argue by saying 'well so are tv shows or action movies' she reponds by saying 'well at least those are well acted.'

:rolleyes::p

[ampulator]

But when I try to argue by saying 'well so are tv shows or action movies' she reponds by saying 'well at least those are well acted.'

:rolleyes::p
... Burn. :( But in any case, I don't think it's a stigma like it was before.

[Eisen-verse]

My wife, for instance, hates it because 'it's fake.'

But when I try to argue by saying 'well so are tv shows or action movies' she reponds by saying 'well at least those are well acted.'

:rolleyes::p

Ha. That's awesome.

My wife, actually, enjoys watching wrestling. I mean, not to a smark level but she gets excited when John Cena comes up (yep, that's a deal breaker. ha jk).

That said, I always combat such a thing by saying "yea the punches are fake but how do you fake falling smack on you back; being thrown down by a 300 pound muscle man?". Honestly, the cat is out of the bag and has been for quite some time now; however, there are certainly elements that cannot be faked. Plus, unlike in those action movies, a pro wrestler has an insane range of things he needs to be good at....

1) Acting
2) Unique mannerisms to brand himself.
3) Athleticism (to an extent; if your a big guy then you're just a big guy)
4) Conveying a look
5) Working a match; making it look believable.

In this case, it's all done live. ha. For that matter, thats what I always come back too. Now, I'm not as big of a wrestling fan as I use to, and don't really watch much in general, but I still find that inner wrestling enthusiast come out when the old 'this is fake; it's stupid' mentality comes up from outsiders.

[PeterHilton]

... Burn. :( But in any case, I don't think it's a stigma like it was before.

Probably not. But if it isn't, then one of the reasons it isn't is BECAUSE of Rock's success. And he made sure to let people know he was not coming in as his character, 'The Rock.'

Before him, the only leading man comparison is Hulk Hogan, and his movie career was almost a complete bust. Hogan did everything he could in his movies to remind you of his character and where did that get him? A string of really awful movies who's total revenue combined probably doesn't equal The Rock's biggest hit.

Hogan made sure you knew he was playing Hogan and he failed. Rocky didn't and he became a mainstream success.

Good for him. And again..if the stigma is less it's a direct result of The Rock.

[PeterHilton]

1) Acting
2) Unique mannerisms to brand himself.
3) Athleticism (to an extent; if your a big guy then you're just a big guy)
4) Conveying a look
5) Working a match; making it look believable.



I've actually brought that up and she says -again- "well ok but a lot of those people we watch aren't good at those things."

Which is true.

She was thrown back by how much better The Rock was 'at talking' then everyone else we'd seen up to that point on Raw last night.

"Why don't they ust hire actors then?"

It's almost like she could have worked for the WWE. :rolleyes:

[Eisen-verse]

I've actually brought that up and she says -again- "well ok but a lot of those people we watch aren't good at those things."

Which is true.

She was thrown back by how much better The Rock was 'at talking' then everyone else we'd seen up to that point on Raw last night.

"Why don't they ust hire actors then?"

It's almost like she could have worked for the WWE. :rolleyes:

haha. That's awesome. I mean, she's entirely true that The Rock has an uncanny ability to relay a promo. The industry has become quite formulaic in their creation of promos these days; so, it was great to see someone who actually had a great persona to his own.

99% of that is the Rock's natural ability (something that is one of a kind really)
but I also wonder if 1% of that is because, from last I heard, the WWE was writing out each promo verbatim. While I know what they're trying to do, have a hold on all creative decisions, the inability for wrestlers to think/act on the fly has pigeon-held their product from some unique tones. I mean, can you imagine Austin reading from a script? Rock? HBK back in the 90's? Hell, Even Kevin Nash was a great promo guy when given free-range.

Just a thought.

Sorry for dragging the topic away though...

Yay Rock!! :D

[juggaloninjalee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grZ4GxmmQ8I

Yup wrestling is fake. This stuff happens in movies all the time.

[Hive]

In this case, it's all done live. ha. For that matter, thats what I always come back too. Now, I'm not as big of a wrestling fan as I use to, and don't really watch much in general, but I still find that inner wrestling enthusiast come out when the old 'this is fake; it's stupid' mentality comes up from outsiders.

The fact that wrestling is 'fake' (though I don't really like that wording) is actually something that appeals to me. Why some people enjoy watching boxing or UFC or whatever more than wrestling because the fighters are trying to hurt each other legitimately is beyond me. I'm not entertained more because people start bleeding or get legitimately hurt or injured, the fact that wrestlers try to keep each other relatively safe while performing is a plus to me. As long as they make an effort to have it look real, of course. I don't want to see too much stuff like David Taylor throwing himself to the ground 5 seconds before a latter would have hit him...

[PeterHilton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grZ4GxmmQ8I

Yup wrestling is fake. This stuff happens in movies all the time.

OK..one...wrestling IS fake in the sense that the results are pre-determined.

And two: no one says that it doesn't require athleticism or it isn't dangerous. To non-fans, they just don't see or appreciate the skill it takes to put on a convincing match or perform a character that connects with the audience.

Lastly, that kind of stuff actually does happen in movies. Check out any 'Ong Bok' movies and you'll see stunts wrestlers wouldn't even think of trying

[PeterHilton]

99% of that is the Rock's natural ability (something that is one of a kind really)
but I also wonder if 1% of that is because, from last I heard, the WWE was writing out each promo verbatim. While I know what they're trying to do, have a hold on all creative decisions, the inability for wrestlers to think/act on the fly has pigeon-held their product from some unique tones. I mean, can you imagine Austin reading from a script? Rock? HBK back in the 90's? Hell, Even Kevin Nash was a great promo guy when given free-range.



This goes back to the WWE's desperate attempt to make the industry more formualic and predictable and therefore manageable.

Instead f letting wrestlers play 'bigger versins of themselves' they hire writers to create characters that focus groups and market studies say *should* get over.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[juggaloninjalee]

OK..one...wrestling IS fake in the sense that the results are pre-determined.

And two: no one says that it doesn't require athleticism or it isn't dangerous. To non-fans, they just don't see or appreciate the skill it takes to put on a convincing match or perform a character that connects with the audience.

Lastly, that kind of stuff actually does happen in movies. Check out any 'Ong Bok' movies and you'll see stunts wrestlers wouldn't even think of trying

Every time I show a video like this to people who say it is fake they change their tune. Most people who say it is fake and stupid in my experience don't realize that these guys are getting hurt and sometimes really severely.

[PeterHilton]

Every time I show a video like this to people who say it is fake they change their tune. Most people who say it is fake and stupid in my experience don't realize that these guys are getting hurt and sometimes really severely.

Meh. In my experience people get that part of it. They just don't see the entertainment in watching a pre-determined fight.

EDIT: I mean..it's not like I watch wrestling because "oh look how tough they are, they might get hurt" I watch (when I watch, to be exact)it's because it's a good show.

[Eisen-verse]

Outside of the Rock coming back, does anyone know if we are for sure getting a Career vs. Streak match with HHH and Taker at WM? I've read this one wrestlezone; however, didn't know if anyone has heard the grumbling of it being true.

If so, I guess we'll see the retirement of DX within a years time of the other.

Not all that surprising though; as Paul looks to cement himself as more of an authoritative figure behind the scenes. That said, I don't know if this would be the best way for him to leave? I mean, if he's really going to be a major part of the WWE going forward, don't you think he'll wrestle occasionally in the WWE's distant future?

[PeterHilton]

Outside of the Rock coming back, does anyone know if we are for sure getting a Career vs. Streak match with HHH and Taker at WM? I've read this one wrestlezone; however, didn't know if anyone has heard the grumbling of it being true.



Just rag-sheet rumours.

[Eisen-verse]

Just rag-sheet rumours.

Okay, good to know. Thanks Peter!

[SaySo]

I do not think it is going to happen Eisen.

Both Taker and HHH have unfinished business.

Taker @ Nexus and Kane from the Buried Alive match.

HHH @ Sheamus for effectively ruining to say his last words to HBK last night after WM 26 and taking him out of action for 9 months or more.

I see Taker getting brought back by another dark figure who's entering his yard. He will help against the CoRRe and Kane which should end at WrestleMania.

If HHH comes back, he has to go after Sheamus. After all, Sheamus is a King and HHH is the King of Kings.

[The Final Countdown]

Not all that surprising though; as Paul looks to cement himself as more of an authoritative figure behind the scenes. That said, I don't know if this would be the best way for him to leave? I mean, if he's really going to be a major part of the WWE going forward, don't you think he'll wrestle occasionally in the WWE's distant future?
Aside from that, I'd think that if he were going to stop wrestling altogether after Mania, he'd want to take that time to get a younger guy over. Considering his unique position as one of the people who will be running the company some day, it would only be to his benefit to go out by putting over a guy like Ziggler or Barrett. That's my two cents, at least.

[Fantabulous]

Just rag-sheet rumours.
I would think we'll find out what Undertaker is doing at Wrestlemania when he returns. Have they done much with The Corre on SD to make them look strong ahead of Wade's planned for match with Undertaker?

[Tha Black Phenom]

Triple H said he's gonna become a "special attraction" superstar, so I'm guessing sort of Taker's schedule. It's how I'd expected him to go out really, with his connections to backstage power and all. As said, I really doubt that Career vs. Streak match will happen. Maybe just a HHH/Taker match, but not with that silly two-years-in-a-row stipulation.

[Fantabulous]

Maybe just a HHH/Taker match, but not with that silly two-years-in-a-row stipulation.

The positive in going back to the stipulation again is that they fans have been educated into believing in it because when Shawn lost last year, he really did go home and not wrestle again. I can somewhat agree with the argument against in going right back to the stipulation again so soon, but at the same time, I think WWE have done a great job in getting it over to where people can believe in it. Which is quite remarkable considering wrestling's history over the past 20-years or so in destroying the credibility of stipulations. I can definitely see WWE looking at the planned/proposed card for Wrestlemania and not thinking it lives up to the name and wanting a match that does. And if any match is a Wrestlemania match, it's The Undertaker vs. Triple H with the Steak against the Career.

[denzil85]

The positive in going back to the stipulation again is that they fans have been educated into believing in it because when Shawn lost last year, he really did go home and not wrestle again. I can somewhat agree with the argument against in going right back to the stipulation again so soon, but at the same time, I think WWE have done a great job in getting it over to where people can believe in it. Which is quite remarkable considering wrestling's history over the past 20-years or so in destroying the credibility of stipulations. I can definitely see WWE looking at the planned/proposed card for Wrestlemania and not thinking it lives up to the name and wanting a match that does. And if any match is a Wrestlemania match, it's The Undertaker vs. Triple H with the Steak against the Career.

How many times did/has (is he still active or not?!) Terry Funk retired? And he lost more than a few retirement matches!

[20LEgend]

:D

I keep walking around the house going to my self:
"Finally... He Rock has come back!" In my awful Dwayne Johnson impression, it was amazing...

[PoisonedSuperman]

Good way to turn Cena heel? Rock trash talking Cena and the fans cheering, isn't that a reason to turn on the fans?

[GhostDogg]

Ok,
believe it or not, this is Rock is the answer to both Cena and the WWE's prayers. I mean they have been trying to figure out for years how to turn Cena heel. I mean he was doing up the whole "Hulk Hogan" thing. Now that Rock is in the picture and they have beef in the past. I mean did yall see how QUICKLY they turned on Cena when Rock came out? I mean granted, when Cena was there he was one of the popular faces, now that Rock is back, I mean hes like in Muhammed Hassan Status.

If they were smart, they would turn Cena heel soon and capitalized on this.

[eayragt]

Holy... I know he's 38 but that's a baby compared to Batista. Hell, even if he just stays until WrestleMania next year and just wrestles at PPV's, hell yeah.

God, what a pop that was.

[PeterHilton]

Ok,
believe it or not, this is Rock is the answer to both Cena and the WWE's prayers. I mean they have been trying to figure out for years how to turn Cena heel. I mean he was doing up the whole "Hulk Hogan" thing. Now that Rock is in the picture and they have beef in the past. I mean did yall see how QUICKLY they turned on Cena when Rock came out? I mean granted, when Cena was there he was one of the popular faces, now that Rock is back, I mean hes like in Muhammed Hassan Status.

If they were smart, they would turn Cena heel soon and capitalized on this.

???

I sincerely doubt the WWE has 'been trying to figure out for years how to turn Cena heel.' There was never a reason to

Even when the mixed reaction he got was leaning toward the boo's, people still paid to see him. If anything, it made him more valuable because now people would pay to root for him and gainst him.

Unless The Rock is coming back to a full time schedule, then positioning him as having issues with both Miz and Cena is the perfect way to include him in the WM main event.

[GhostDogg]

I am stayed up to 11 pm Iraq time, to watch this. I am NOT going to lie...
it was well worth it.

I mean Holy SH*T that was a pop. I dont think I heard a Pop that loud since Stone Cold won the title at Wrestlmania vs Shawn Micheals...

aww memories....

[lazorbeak]

How would that be "smart"? Cena is the #1 babyface on the main roster. If Cena turned and feuded with the Rock, what does he do after Wrestlemania? Does he feud with Orton or Edge, the current #2 and #3 babyfaces? The guys he's worked hundreds of matches with over the past five years? The Undertaker is the only name I can think of he could work with that he doesn't already have extensive history with.

But even if you do Cena vs. Triple H, Cena vs. Undertaker, Cena vs. the Attitude era as a program that lasts until, say, Summerslam, you still have a pretty major problem: WWE doesn't have any babyfaces as good as John Cena. Orton isn't a great talker, so as the #2 face he doesn't have to come out and cut 10 minute live promos: does anyone see him being particularly successful at it if he was made the de facto top babyface? Who carries the brand as the top face if Cena is heel? Triple H? Edge? Some other 40 year old who works better as a heel? And if it's a new guy, who? John Morrison's a great athlete but WWE doesn't trust him with a live mic, Daniel Bryan is an amazing wrestler but he isn't a natural on the mic and doesn't have the look WWE crowds expect out of their top names. Do you turn Miz babyface or something? That's about the only option I can think of, and it doesn't make much sense, as his heel run is one of the freshest things WWE has right now.

I just don't see how turning your franchise babyface is suddenly a good idea because a guy that hasn't been part of the main roster in more than 5 years trash-talked him. I mean there's already a shortage of good babyfaces on WWE right now, so I don't see why turning your best babyface is a particularly good idea.

[GhostDogg]

I do see your point, now try and see mine for a moment.

Ok, basically put, Cena is getting STALE. Seriously. Now lets see some of the people that could go against him with pro's and cons.

1. Stone Cold Randy Orton: Pro's- hes an Anti hero face. Con. Hes the WWE's answer for Nyquil when it comes to thier promos.

2. Daniel Bryan: Pro's: He technically gifted and can make a good match with almost anyone. i.e. Ziggler, Miz, Dibiase

3. John Morrison: Pro's: Definately different and a breath of Fresh Air to the main event scene. Cons? Not as good on the microphone as his former tag Team partner.

4. R-Truth.......ARE YOU F'N SERIOUS? that was actually a joke.

I am sorry but its almost 1 am here. I guess the fact I am trying to make is, that the WWE is going to have to make some moves ...SOON. Because if they wanna keep Cena as a face, hes not going to stay that way for very long. Especially when Rock is in the picture. Dont beleive me? I have a perfect example...remember when Amy "Lita" Dumas cheated on her boyfriend Matt Hardy with Edge, and Hardy was the one that got fired? Ok they did a story line where Lita was the Face and Trish Stratus was the heel. It was a complete role reversal. Even though Lita was portrayed as a face, she was treated as a heel. I have a funny feeling Cena will be treated the same way...


"I maybe wrong, but I SERIOUSLY doubt it."

Sinister Minister.

[PoisonedSuperman]

I was just thinking that Cena could be come the trash-talking, attitude era guy that the fans "wanted", you know telling them that its what they asked for, blah, blah, blah.

[Fantabulous]

As the C&P sites will soon claim as their big news, it is The Undertaker vs, Triple H at Wrestlemania. And it very well might be Streak vs. Career.

[lazorbeak]

Honestly I don't agree that he's stale. Now that he's not doing marine salutes and wrestling for the title every week, he's been able to demonstrate why he's the best and most valuable babyface the company has. He carried the majority of the Nexus feud in a storyline that only obliquely had anything to do with the belt, and it ended up being probably the biggest storyline of the year. But your point about people for heel Cena to feud with just re-enforces my position, namely: there is nobody worth seeing him feud with if he turned heel. There are no other strong babyfaces on Raw right now in a position to work with him, and he's worked with Edge and Orton a billion times. I mean do we finally get the return feud of Cena/Big Show that we've all been clamoring for?

Also, how is the Lita situation similar at all? Lita wasn't stale, she cheated on her insecure, drama queen, marginally talented boyfriend, he got fired for being an insecure drama queen (the scar will become the symbol!), and she got heat for it. Which happened after a solid year of working with Trish where Trish was the heel. I guess I'm not sure what the two things have in common.

[PeterHilton]

I do see your point, now try and see mine for a moment.

Ok, basically put, Cena is getting STALE. Seriously. Now lets see some of the people that could go against him with pro's and cons.

1. Stone Cold Randy Orton: Pro's- hes an Anti hero face. Con. Hes the WWE's answer for Nyquil when it comes to thier promos.

2. Daniel Bryan: Pro's: He technically gifted and can make a good match with almost anyone. i.e. Ziggler, Miz, Dibiase

3. John Morrison: Pro's: Definately different and a breath of Fresh Air to the main event scene. Cons? Not as good on the microphone as his former tag Team partner.

4. R-Truth.......ARE YOU F'N SERIOUS? that was actually a joke.

I am sorry but its almost 1 am here. I guess the fact I am trying to make is, that the WWE is going to have to make some moves ...SOON. Because if they wanna keep Cena as a face, hes not going to stay that way for very long. Especially when Rock is in the picture. Dont beleive me? I have a perfect example...remember when Amy "Lita" Dumas cheated on her boyfriend Matt Hardy with Edge, and Hardy was the one that got fired? Ok they did a story line where Lita was the Face and Trish Stratus was the heel. It was a complete role reversal. Even though Lita was portrayed as a face, she was treated as a heel. I have a funny feeling Cena will be treated the same way...


"I maybe wrong, but I SERIOUSLY doubt it."

Sinister Minister.

What's funny is that I actually agree Cena is stale, but your argument is pretty weak.

It's all conjecture based on the assumption that The Rock is going to work an extended program with Cena. No one knows that. And IIRC amp pointed out that if they want to do Cena vs Rock at WM next year all they would need is a months lead up which would requir no turn

Again...*I* agree Cena is stale. But based onthe type of product the WWE has now I don't think the majority of fans agree with me. And if they didn't pull the trigger with the Nexus storyline (which really would have been perfect) then i don't see it happening.

[PoisonedSuperman]

This is what I would like to see done with "The Streak", now obviously its too late to do what I'm going to say but this is what I would of liked or would like to see in the future.

A big menacing young guy coming up to the roster and just destroying people, sending them to the hospital, breaking bones, week after week. Maybe getting suspended, or fined and DQ'd often. I would like him to be taking out a big star (Kane?) only for the lights to go off and The Undertaker to come out and save the star setting up the fued.

During the build up of The Streak vs. (the steak? if the guys never been pinned, The Monster? whatever) The heel states that he doesn't care about The Streak and he plans on taking something much greater, The Undertakers career. The man loses the match by DQ of course but absolutely destroys the Undertaker meaning he can keep his streak and the heel gets a rub. Undertakers off screen for a while, makes his come back builds towards a rematch and if he wants to fuss about it backstage then he can even win, it wouldn't matter. Maybe the heel would be champion by then, giving Taker one last run .

[PeterHilton]

As the C&P sites will soon claim as their big news, it is The Undertaker vs, Triple H at Wrestlemania. And it very well might be Streak vs. Career.

source?

Also, how is the Lita situation similar at all? Lita wasn't stale, she cheated on her insecure, drama queen, marginally talented boyfriend, he got fired for being an insecure drama queen (the scar will become the symbol!), and she got heat for it. Which happened after a solid year of working with Trish where Trish was the heel. I guess I'm not sure what the two things have in common.

I think he's showing that in some cases fans decide whether or not you turn a character

But it's been years since the negative reactions were that overt towards Cena. These days he gets - at worse - a mixed reaction at certain venues. Nets fans just blow it out of proportion.

[Fantabulous]

source?


The Observer Show on Meltzer's site was free so I listened and right at the end (52:52) he mentions that that's the match. He doesn't say that it the stipulation is in effect but he says that is the impression he has.

[ampulator]

But it's been years since the negative reactions were that overt towards Cena. These days he gets - at worse - a mixed reaction at certain venues. Nets fans just blow it out of proportion.
I agree... because almost all these fans have left to watch something else. I've said it before, they might not all go away at once. Some might go away now, some might make a deal about it... but eventually, if you push them away, they'll leave. Otherwise, why would they be so desperate about Wrestlemania? Even I'm a bit shocked they were worried. If it didn't concern them last year, it shouldn't concern them this year. They should have dealt with this a long, long time ago. To admit it just now, they were ignoring it and they were genuinely oblivious to it. Neither conclusion means something good.

[lazorbeak]

I think he's showing that in some cases fans decide whether or not you turn a character

But it's been years since the negative reactions were that overt towards Cena. These days he gets - at worse - a mixed reaction at certain venues. Nets fans just blow it out of proportion.

Is that what he was trying to say? I guess I thought he was making some point about staleness. Also I hate that example because he framed it like WWE management cut Hardy loose because Lita slept with Edge, not because Hardy is an incredibly insecure crybaby who went to the wrestling media (such as it is) drawing attention to himself as someone who had been wronged. And it still didn't get him over as a solo star, it just made Edge a better heel.

[ampulator]

Is that what he was trying to say? I guess I thought he was making some point about staleness. Also I hate that example because he framed it like WWE management cut Hardy loose because Lita slept with Edge, not because Hardy is an incredibly insecure crybaby who went to the wrestling media (such as it is) drawing attention to himself as someone who had been wronged. And it still didn't get him over as a solo star, it just made Edge a better heel.
Actually, Hardy wasn't being a baby about it. His reaction was perfectly understanble. You have to at least admit this. Now, was it good idea to react they way he did? Of course not. Was it completely, absolutely, understanble, if not rational or reasonable? Yes.

[lazorbeak]

Actually, Hardy wasn't being a baby about it. His reaction was perfectly understanble. You have to at least admit this. Now, was it good idea to react they way he did? Of course. Was it completely, absolutely, understanble, if not rational or reasonable? Yes.

It was rational to run to the media and get himself fired, then try to drum up sympathy for months only to go back into a slightly increased role six months down the road? We have very different definitions of "rational."

He constantly fed the story and made himself into a victim if not a hero for "intercepting" secret text messages. AKA he went through her phone and found something, and his sense of betrayal was so strong that in his grief he started using his WWE-sponsored blog to talk about his real life personal issues until he got fired.

I mean remember the time Savage and Elizabeth broke up and Savage responded by whining to every media outlet who would listen about how wronged he was? No?

Yes, getting yourself fired because your "soul mate" cheated on you while you were not on the road together is a pretty immature thing to do. And Matt has shown multiple times since then how exactly in character that is for him.

[PeterHilton]

I agree... because almost all these fans have left to watch something else.

their actual number of viewers has dropped in recent years. They just don't buy PPVs

Actually, Hardy wasn't being a baby about it. His reaction was perfectly understanble. You have to at least admit this. Now, was it good idea to react they way he did? Of course. Was it completely, absolutely, understanble, if not rational or reasonable? Yes.

Huh??? were you trying to say "Of course not" as in:

Now, was it good idea to react they way he did? Of course NOT.

And yes his reaction was reasonable but lazor is right that all it really did was make Edge a better heel. All of Hardy's failures can be seen in the fact that he was handed the hottest storyline of the year, a situation where very fan in the arena was behind him, and all he could do is deliver a series of flat uninspired promos that made anyone who watched realize that Edge was 10 times the talent Hardy was.

[ampulator]

their actual number of viewers has dropped in recent years. They just don't buy PPVs



Huh??? were you trying to say "Of course not" as in:

Now, was it good idea to react they way he did? Of course NOT.

And yes his reaction was reasonable but lazor is right that all it really did was make Edge a better heel. All of Hardy's failures can be seen in the fact that he was handed the hottest storyline of the year, a situation where very fan in the arena was behind him, and all he could do is deliver a series of flat uninspired promos that made anyone who watched realize that Edge was 10 times the talent Hardy was.

Sorry. I was just rushing a bit. I'll change it to "not".

But my point is, it was understanble. But so what if he "dropped the ball"? He never was able to handle the ball to begin with. Giving it to him was a mistake. I like Matt Hardy, but he was never able to "put it together". He had the skill, the look, the "it" factor, and the push... but it was never able to combine it together. And this was before he was handed the opportunity. This wasn't going to change.

[PeterHilton]

Sorry. I was just rushing a bit. I'll change it to "not".

No worries. I kinda figured thats what you were saying and I tend to agree.

It probably wasn't a good or smrt way to react, but it was understandable

[Fantabulous]

All of Hardy's failures can be seen in the fact that he was handed the hottest storyline of the year, a situation where very fan in the arena was behind him, and all he could do is deliver a series of flat uninspired promos that made anyone who watched realize that Edge was 10 times the talent Hardy was.
WWE could have helped things by not booking the first match of the feud to have Edge kick the **** out of Matt and the referee stop it in less than five minutes. Not exactly the stuff that avenging heroes are made of.

[ampulator]

WWE could have helped things by not booking the first match of the feud to have Edge kick the **** out of Matt and the referee stop it in less than five minutes. Not exactly the stuff that avenging heroes are made of.
Yeah, but Matt was still handed a top storyline. But like I said, he was never able to put it together.

[lazorbeak]

Just re-read some of Hardy's commentaries from 2005. It really shows the incredible immaturity of wrestling fans that they cheered for this loser and wanted him back. He did whatever he can to stay in the wrestling media, generally talking a bunch of **** about his ex that betrayed him and how she "reported back" to Edge, while he "reported back" to absolutely anyone that would listen.

Everyone betray him! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okaNIRTXvV0

[ampulator]

Just re-read some of Hardy's commentaries from 2005. It really shows the incredible immaturity of wrestling fans that they cheered for this loser and wanted him back. He did whatever he can to stay in the wrestling media, generally talking a bunch of **** about his ex that betrayed him and how she "reported back" to Edge, while he "reported back" to absolutely anyone that would listen.

Everyone betray him! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okaNIRTXvV0
So what if he was immature about it? Yes, it was immature. And? This wasn't understandable? It's not as if his reaction was out of the norm. It wasn't as if, if had stubbed his toe against a desk, and then smashing the table because the table was in the way of his foot. That would be out of the norm.

His reaction? Not out of the norm. I've seen people throw out their's EX'd TV's out of windows, burn their clothing, or... well, "relieve" themselves on pictures of their ex's. His reaction was far from the most outrageous, and I've seen many people act like that.

[Fantabulous]

So what if he was immature about it? Yes, it was immature. And? This wasn't understandable? It's not as if his reaction was out of the norm. It wasn't as if, if had stubbed his toe against a desk, and then smashing the table because the table was in the way of his foot. That would be out of the norm.

His reaction? Not out of the norm.
Apparently, your girlfriend cheating on you with your best friend is nothing to get too upset about.

[ampulator]

Apparently, your girlfriend cheating on you with your best friend is nothing to get too upset about.
Hey, I think his reaction was understandable. If he was hollering about it, it's understandable. I wasn't critciziing Matt Hardy for his reaction.

[PeterHilton]

WWE could have helped things by not booking the first match of the feud to have Edge kick the **** out of Matt and the referee stop it in less than five minutes. Not exactly the stuff that avenging heroes are made of.

Yeah, but Matt was still handed a top storyline. But like I said, he was never able to put it together.

Yup that's how I saw it. The booking wasn't superior, but Hardy's promos were awful

After a while I rooted for Edge just because ...I mean ..I could kinda see why Lita dumped Matt.

[PeterHilton]

Hey, I think his reaction was understandable. If he was hollering about it, it's understandable. I wasn't critciziing Matt Hardy for his reaction.

I have a feeling your Sarcasm Radar is broken. :p

[Fantabulous]

Hey, I think his reaction was understandable. If he was hollering about it, it's understandable. I wasn't critciziing Matt Hardy for his reaction.
If anything, I think Matt's reaction was a little understated considering what happened. Lita is lucky that she still had possessions to collect from Matt's place.

[ampulator]

I have a feeling your Sarcasm Radar is broken. :p
Sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet. ARGH

If anything, I think Matt's reaction was a little understated considering what happened. Lita is lucky that she still had possessions to collect from Matt's place.

She did? Wow, Matt must have not have pissed off as I thought he was.

[Fantabulous]

She did? Wow, Matt must have not have pissed off as I thought he was.
From what I remember, he basically boxed up all her stuff and dumped it or handed it over. I don't remember any talk of anything of hers being destroyed.

The same cannot be said, however, of Edge's car tires...

[ampulator]

From what I remember, he basically boxed up all her stuff and dumped it or handed it over. I don't remember any talk of anything of hers being destroyed.

The same cannot be said, however, of Edge's car tires...
Hell hath no wrath like a woman scorned.

[LoNdOn]

Hell hath no wrath like a woman scorned.

or a fatty on a diet!

[Teh_Showtime]

I think that calling in on the WWEs call in show to ask Lita questions while she was doing a live Q&A is a bit immature

byte this had many epic moments

[Fantabulous]

I think that calling in on the WWEs call in show to ask Lita questions while she was doing a live Q&A is a bit immature

byte this had many epic moments

Maybe WWE should have thought twice about putting Lita on a live Q&A show on Byte This during that period. Although depending on when this happened, it could have been done after all parties had agreed to turn things into a storyline and Matt was gleefully playing his part.

[Teh_Showtime]

idk, was just watching some highlights of it on youtube.

It starrted as me wanting to see all of Josh Mathews slamming TNA whenever someone talked about them

[Jaysin]

idk, was just watching some highlights of it on youtube.

It starrted as me wanting to see all of Josh Mathews slamming TNA whenever someone talked about them

I thought it was Todd Grisham that bashed TNA?

[crownsy]

Ok,
believe it or not, this is Rock is the answer to both Cena and the WWE's prayers. I mean they have been trying to figure out for years how to turn Cena heel. I mean he was doing up the whole "Hulk Hogan" thing. Now that Rock is in the picture and they have beef in the past. I mean did yall see how QUICKLY they turned on Cena when Rock came out? I mean granted, when Cena was there he was one of the popular faces, now that Rock is back, I mean hes like in Muhammed Hassan Status.

If they were smart, they would turn Cena heel soon and capitalized on this.

this assumes rock is back for longer than the WM season and will wrestle.

If not, its silly to turn cena, who's your number one babyface? orton? he's not up to that.

I mean if rock is back as a semi-active talent, sure, turn cena. but if not, orton can't carry that mantle, people just don't care about him that way.

[djthefunkchris]

How so? In all honesty, how exactly has he been 'hurt' by trying to to separate himself from his wrestling persona as he pursued his acting career? How would it have helped...?

Because knowing wrestling nerds, they would hve been bitter either way.
Just an opinion. I dont' know if it would have or not, but I do know alot of people that were alot more excited to see movies he was in while he was still wrestling, and after he left... that interest wasn't there anymore. Alot of fans felt like he was abandoning them, and I just don't think seperating himself from the wrestling actually did him any favors. I'm not saying he wasn't successfull, just an opinion that he could have possibly been more successfull if he kept the wrestling fans in the loop with him.

Now, that doesn't mean I'm right. However, you can't possibly think you can prove to me that I'm wrong either (no more then I can prove I'm right).
I guess that's true...but I still think Rocky would not have gotten his run of family movies and comedies if he hadn'te work to show done some people he was serious about being an actor. And part of that was staying away from his wrestling past.

I will agree to dissagree with you. I don't think he would have had as much of a problem proving himself either way. I don't think he would have done any worse at it.

However, it's all speculation. I DO feel he was doing what he thought was best for him. I DO believe that he had other's giving him advice as well, to do just as he did. I was NOT one of the people upset that he left. I supported most of his movies (well... The Tuth Fairy he can keep). Had no problem with him as an actor or wrestler turned actor, and I don't think that many people (fans of movie or wrestling) would have either. I think it was more a political thing to do, as you say... To ensure the powers that be knew he was serious about making movies.

My opinion is that I just think he didn't have to cut himself off like he did. I'm not saying to keep on wrestling, or anything like that... but to cut yourself off like he did almost entirely from the industry that loved him (and gave him the chance to do what he was doing) wasn't the brightest move. IF I were his friend I would have told him so. As I said, that's just my opinion.

[PeterHilton]

My opinion is that I just think he didn't have to cut himself off like he did. I'm not saying to keep on wrestling, or anything like that... but to cut yourself off like he did almost entirely from the industry that loved him (and gave him the chance to do what he was doing) wasn't the brightest move. IF I were his friend I would have told him so. As I said, that's just my opinion.

Because cutting the pro wrestling industry off made it so that the WWE and the fans would never welcome him back regardless of how successful and beloved he was previously?

O wait...no ..just the opposite.

Last night proved that - the second he decided to come back - fans would welcome him back regardless.

I'm still not seeing the negatives chris.

[Linsolv]

If my girlfriend said to me "It's over," I would probably stop going to her place. If her goal was to have me continue to see her with my eyes but just not as a relationship, then she'd probably be out of luck.

If she called me a week later, and said she missed me and wanted to get back together, does that mean I'd turn her down? No. But I wouldn't have a vested interest in her well being for that week.

What Chris is saying is that when The Rock was wrestling, he was our boy and we would see things because we liked his Rock character, even though he was playing The Scorpion King, or whoever. When he left WWF, we lost that vested interest in his well-being. Hence a negative. It doesn't mean we've forsaken him forever.

[PeterHilton]

If my girlfriend said to me "It's over," I would probably stop going to her place. If her goal was to have me continue to see her with my eyes but just not as a relationship, then she'd probably be out of luck.

If she called me a week later, and said she missed me and wanted to get back together, does that mean I'd turn her down? No. But I wouldn't have a vested interest in her well being for that week.

What Chris is saying is that when The Rock was wrestling, he was our boy and we would see things because we liked his Rock character, even though he was playing The Scorpion King, or whoever. When he left WWF, we lost that vested interest in his well-being. Hence a negative. It doesn't mean we've forsaken him forever.

????

I don't follow your example. I was talking about the effects on The Rock.

So - in your example - I don't give a crap about you. I am talking about - again, in your example - your girlfriend.

She stopped dating you because you just weren't in her league. You were cute for High School but she knew she could do better. So she went off and dated some wealthy investment banker and got treated like a princess, and then a few years down the road came back into town to see her folks. She kinda wants to hook up and of course you said yes.

So she got everything she ever wanted AND you still are in to her because - DUH - she's ten times hotter than anyone else you might get.

So, back to what I was saying: where's the negative for your girlfriend/The Rock? I don't see it.

[BurningHamster]

????
I don't follow your example.

Isn't it obvious? Linsolv is dating The Rock.

[ampulator]

Isn't it obvious? Linsolv is dating The Rock.
What happened to his girlfriend then?

[Candyman]

What happened to his girlfriend then?

His girlfriend is Justin Bieber, obv.

[Candyman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grZ4GxmmQ8I

Yup wrestling is fake. This stuff happens in movies all the time.

Wow...that was painful to watch. The one around the 7:00 mark, where the woman looks like she broke her ribs...WTF was the ref doing? First he grabs her mask like he's trying to pull it off, then he starts rubbing her ribs like he's trying to get a stain out or something...I don't get it.

Never gets old seeing Sparky Plugg sandbag Brock Lesnar and get dropped on his head, though. God bless you, Brock.

...and who the F was the woman in heels that got out of the limo??

[Teh_Showtime]

I thought it was Todd Grisham that bashed TNA?

sorry, might have been. Forgot about Grish since we don't see him much anymore :(

[juggaloninjalee]

Ya know I have been wondering who was the woman in heels? Is that going to be relevant?

[1234]

Ok, lets revisit the whole 2/21/11 thing. I was just looking through a thread on another forum and came across this picture taken from the latest video.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6918/takerpromo.png

Of course the speculation arising from the picture: That looks a bit like HBK.

Just thought I would post it here to get other opinions. 1 thing is for sure though, I am not missing RAW next week.

[LoNdOn]

Ok, lets revisit the whole 2/21/11 thing. I was just looking through a thread on another forum and came across this picture taken from the latest video.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6918/takerpromo.png

Of course the speculation arising from the picture: That looks a bit like HBK.

Just thought I would post it here to get other opinions. 1 thing is for sure though, I am not missing RAW next week.

Looks exactly like the Undertaker to me. After that Johnny Cash line, it couldn't logically be anyone else.

[1234]

Looks exactly like the Undertaker to me. After that Johnny Cash line, it couldn't logically be anyone else.

Im not saying for sure its HBK. Its just another rumor going around (and after his retirement last year I would seriously doubt its HBK) and one that caught my eye since (to me atleast) the facial features visible in that picture look as much like HBK as they do 'Taker.

Without a doubt these videos are something to do with 'Taker, but I subscribe to the 2 person theory going around. In the latest promo we see (who we can assume is) Undertaker enter the cabin, then at the end someone(else?) walking towards the cabin.

Whether it is someone else will likely become more clear next week, but for now I remain hopeful it isnt just another 'Taker return.

[Fantabulous]

You do realize that trying to garner 'evidence' from images from the video is pointless, right? You can read anything you want into any one part of the video; if you want it to be for Shawn, Undertaker or whoever, you'll find a way to 'prove' it's for them with the flimsiest of evidence. And even if the video is for, say, Undertaker, who's to say that Monday afternoon Vince doesn't just change his mind and decide to have the video for Triple H or Shawn and go in a different direction.

[djthefunkchris]

????

I don't follow your example. I was talking about the effects on The Rock.

So - in your example - I don't give a crap about you. I am talking about - again, in your example - your girlfriend.

She stopped dating you because you just weren't in her league. You were cute for High School but she knew she could do better. So she went off and dated some wealthy investment banker and got treated like a princess, and then a few years down the road came back into town to see her folks. She kinda wants to hook up and of course you said yes.

So she got everything she ever wanted AND you still are in to her because - DUH - she's ten times hotter than anyone else you might get.

So, back to what I was saying: where's the negative for your girlfriend/The Rock? I don't see it.

The negative is something that you can't really see because it's not there to see. IF that's what your saying, then I agree.... However, your not that shallow are you?

Your not going to sit there and type that you don't understand that what I am saying is that I believe he could have done even better with the movies (had much more success) with the wrestling fans totally behind him?

Look at the success of the movie that ALOT of people went to see, when he was just a CGI character (The Mummy Returns/movie with him as the Scorpion King). When he was still "there" for the fans.... The success of that one movie, and the knowledge it has alot to do with him being in it, is what launched the Scorpion King in which he played the lead in. This was the reason his whole carreer took off in the first place.

If you refuse to acknowledge any wrestling fans as being able to support (in a pretty big way) a person enough to help them become successfull, then your even dissagreeing with what he said as "Dwayne" on Raw.

As I said, this is my opinion. You can't "see" the difference because there is no way to go back and see what would have happened had he played it differently. I'm just speculating (and going by the financial success, which has been acknowledged as because of the wrestling fans, of his first appearance in a big budget movie).

It might look like apples and oranges to you... and what effects Wrestling fans cannot effect movie fans (or vise versa), then there is no way I am going to get you to understand what I'm saying (although I believe you understood the first time). However, if you can look at Wrestling Fans, and Movie fans, and say "Hey, that's alot of fans" if you can get them together on something.... then maybe you can see my point of what I think he "could" have potentially done. Heck, maybe that's what he realised and is going to go about doing it this way now (first thing I thought of when I was watching his promo).

[juggaloninjalee]

Peek-a-boo you can't see me.

[PeterHilton]

It might look like apples and oranges to you... and what effects Wrestling fans cannot effect movie fans (or vise versa), then there is no way I am going to get you to understand what I'm saying (although I believe you understood the first time). However, if you can look at Wrestling Fans, and Movie fans, and say "Hey, that's alot of fans" if you can get them together on something.... then maybe you can see my point of what I think he "could" have potentially done. Heck, maybe that's what he realised and is going to go about doing it this way now (first thing I thought of when I was watching his promo).

If your point is that The Rock could have 'possibly' made more money on his movies by keeping his wrestling fans close, then I think I would call that a stretch, if only because his movie career has been fairly OK

Doom and Faster bombed, but all of his Disney movies were very profitable and even though Scorpion King did well, he made almost the exact same amount of money (with a smaller budget) with The Game Plan. A movie that I'm sure very few of his wrestling fans would have gone to see regardless

The guy is considered a bankable movie actor. I know it's just a matter of opinion...but I sincerely don't see that wrestling fans would've done any more or less for The Rock's career these past few years if his actions had been different.

And - again - the mainstream attitude BEFORE The Rock's movie success was very different and I think he and his management team had legitimate concerns that studios would not have taken him seriously had he not tried to separate himself from his 'wrestling past.'

To me, he was able to have his cake and eat it too and I can't criticize that.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Ok, lets revisit the whole 2/21/11 thing. I was just looking through a thread on another forum and came across this picture taken from the latest video.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6918/takerpromo.png

Of course the speculation arising from the picture: That looks a bit like HBK.

Just thought I would post it here to get other opinions. 1 thing is for sure though, I am not missing RAW next week.

Some say it looks like Triple H. With the facial hair and all.

[tommyb]

And - again - the mainstream attitude BEFORE The Rock's movie success was very different and I think he and his management team had legitimate concerns that studios would not have taken him seriously had he not tried to separate himself from his 'wrestling past.'

I think he's still seen as a bit of a gimmick, even though he's been away from wrestling for so long. Most people, even non-wrestling fans, who see his movies, sees The Rock (not Dwayne Johnson) and characterises him as such. Most of my friends who stopped watching wrestling before their teens, and who were casual at most fans, still joke about him giving the Rock Bottom or whatever when he's in a film, and that would just be increased by a regular spot on WWE television.

I don't think his reappearance will cause him any loss of credibility, however, had he remained in WWE he would have become even more of a one-dimensional gimmick in most people's minds than he has been.

[1234]

Some say it looks like Triple H. With the facial hair and all.

The facial hair could be HHH but the nose doesnt look like his to me. HHH has more of a distinctive nose shape.

[Clp605]

The facial hair could be HHH but the nose doesnt look like his to me. HHH has more of a distinctive nose shape.

You just reminded me about the Nation's DX impression.

Anyway back on topic I could see it as HBK but I doubt it is since well Taker is just a better choice and Shawn already made his "return" now that he is in the Hall of Fame. If it isn't Taker however I have no idea who it would be, Sting maybe, but that's big maybe.

[Linsolv]

It's Taker inside the house, just like the first shot from far away.

It really did look a lot like Shawn, though. I thought when I saw it "Haha that looks like HBK."

[panix04]

Any indication as to details of Rock's contract? Is it just a fly-by, promote the film with a 'mania appearence deal?

[liontamer]

been watching WWE lately to follow thw taker/sting rumors, still catching up on storylines

while they made it out not to look this way with his taunting of Cole, could the Rock's promise not to leave the fans mean he is the GM? Just a thought

[MattitudeV2]

Any indication as to details of Rock's contract? Is it just a fly-by, promote the film with a 'mania appearence deal?

he said in the promo he's not their to promote a flim and he did say he was back; don't know if full time or not however.

[Genadi]

Just caught The Rock's promo from RAW. What a special, special talent he is.

[milamber]

Knew it would be a good Raw when Cena/Punk opened the show. Good to see Punk win.

Nice to see Eve & Natalya given a chance to show off some decent moves in the ring. Now if only they'd split LayCool the Divas division might start to improve.

Liked A-Ri on the mic and Miz winning clean. Would have preferred Sheamus to beat Orton. The Rock is still awesome! Bring back HHH, add a couple more twists to Wrestlemania and it could be a good PPV.

As for the promo. I enhanced the contrast on that image and to me it looks like Shawn Michael's jawline.

[Genadi]

As for the promo. I enhanced the contrast on that image and to me it looks like Shawn Michael's jawline.

Someone's prob mentioned this already, but latest rumour I heard was HHH vs Taker at Mania with HBK as special ref.

[jbergey_2005]

With HHH, Kane, Undertaker, Edge and Big Show likely all close to retiring this is going to leave a lot of holes in the WWE roster.

I think the WWE will have a hard time maintaining their current popularity in the near future. CM Punk, Shaemus, The Miz and Albert Del Rio are just not household names at this point.

We arent too far away from Cena being the only International Superstar on the roster with Orton not being far away.

Its quite amazing to think of all the Main Event talent they have lost since 2003 and will soon lose. Rock, Austin, Lesnar, Angle, HBK, Benoit, Guerrero and the initial list off the top of my head.

[jbergey_2005]

Someone's prob mentioned this already, but latest rumour I heard was HHH vs Taker at Mania with HBK as special ref.

It sounds like this is going to happen. Apparently, HHH hasnt been the same since HBK retired and with all of his injuries over the years is looking to give up the in ring work.

I read a good article about why it wont be Sting facing taker as well which made a lot of sense. As much as we think WWE creative doesnt have a clue they are smarter than rushing a 5 week buildup with Sting-UT just to have him lose to UT and have no momentum going forward.

[juggaloninjalee]

With HHH, Kane, Undertaker, Edge and Big Show likely all close to retiring this is going to leave a lot of holes in the WWE roster.

I think the WWE will have a hard time maintaining their current popularity in the near future. CM Punk, Shaemus, The Miz and Albert Del Rio are just not household names at this point.

We arent too far away from Cena being the only International Superstar on the roster with Orton not being far away.

Its quite amazing to think of all the Main Event talent they have lost since 2003 and will soon lose. Rock, Austin, Lesnar, Angle, HBK, Benoit, Guerrero and the initial list off the top of my head.

I would argue those were the only TRUE SUPERSTARS out of that list. Who outside of wrestling fans knew of Lesnar, Angle, Guerrero, and Benoit while they were wrestling in the WWE?

The WWE could gain mainstream exposure for their current stars by having them on television shows and such. They did it in the 90s with MTV, the Drew Carey show, and many other television shows. HHH was nothing more than an IC title guy until after the Drew Carey show and MTV spots.

It helps get the people themselves over when they get exposure like that. It's something I could see helping again eventually.

EDIT: NOT saying HHH only got over because of those but I certainly feel they helped.

[Teh_Showtime]

The Miz is well on his way to being a mainstream star.

Combine that with probably a few others doing TV stints and it could be all good.

[LoganRodzen]

I thought the way they handled his return was tremendous. Having the lights go out one by one and turning off the Wrestlemania sign made you feel that something BIG was coming. I legitimately thought Vince McMahon was just going to come out and announce the guest host for Wrestlemania, but when all of the effects started to happen I expected much more. And when "do you smell what The Rock is cookin'?" came over the PA, I jumped out of bed and my girlfriend looked at me and said, "Really Logan?" So I flipped out and told her she was witnessing history and that she HAD to like it.

I hadn't been that excited watching WWE since the original Nexus destroyed Cena and the ringside area. When I heard someone in the crowd during RAW start a small chant, "THANK YOU ROCK!" - I started doing it too! :D

Someone's prob mentioned this already, but latest rumour I heard was HHH vs Taker at Mania with HBK as special ref.

That would be epic. No doubt about it.

[KJFTW]

Taker vs. HHH at Mania would be alright. I don't know, I guess I just really bought into the whole Sting thing what with Nash, and Booker both jumping ship. I let the rumors get the better of me.

And three days later, I'm still nuts about The Rock coming back. Everytime I watch just the entrance on YouTube, I get goosebumps. Bravo WWE.

And as someone wrote earlier, which I think is absolutely right... It's time to turn Cena. Huge Babyface or not, Cena as a heel is just better, I've always thought so.

[Hive]

Just caught The Rock's promo from RAW. What a special, special talent he is.

Same here, and I was likewise impressed. No wonder the crowd popped insanely.

[MrOnu]

You know, I let my mind wonder a bit after the Rock's promo and I thought : "man, could you just imagine the hatred level if Cena turns heel on the Rock at Wrestlemania ?". I'm not saying it's going to happen, not even sure it should happen anyways, still, that would be a tremendous amount of heel heat.

[1234]

And when "do you smell what The Rock is cookin'?" came over the PA, I jumped out of bed and my girlfriend looked at me and said, "Really Logan?" So I flipped out and told her she was witnessing history and that she HAD to like it.


Ha, you tell her Logan.

And I may or may not have started chanting "Rocky! Rocky! Rocky!..."

[Purple Cowboy]

Think there will be any Nexus vs. Corre at Elimination Chamber? They teased it at the beginning of RR and have never gone back since I believe.

[jbergey_2005]

I would argue those were the only TRUE SUPERSTARS out of that list. Who outside of wrestling fans knew of Lesnar, Angle, Guerrero, and Benoit while they were wrestling in the WWE?

The WWE could gain mainstream exposure for their current stars by having them on television shows and such. They did it in the 90s with MTV, the Drew Carey show, and many other television shows. HHH was nothing more than an IC title guy until after the Drew Carey show and MTV spots.

It helps get the people themselves over when they get exposure like that. It's something I could see helping again eventually.

EDIT: NOT saying HHH only got over because of those but I certainly feel they helped.

I guess id agree with this. It was probably back then you would have Rock or Austin headlining a show and it would get tremendous buy rates whoever they were facing. I was just thinking in a few years if we get to the point of The Miz headlining vs CM Punk that the casual fans are going to have very little interest in buying that PPV. Of course this trend has been happening now despite still having Undertaker, HHH and Cena doing a lot of the headlining.

[Fantabulous]

I was just thinking in a few years if we get to the point of The Miz headlining vs CM Punk that the casual fans are going to have very little interest in buying that PPV. Of course this trend has been happening now despite still having Undertaker, HHH and Cena doing a lot of the headlining.

I'd say part of the reason of the decline is because of those three, and Orton and Edge as well, doing a lot of the headlining for the past few years. How often can you run headline feuds with the same group of wrestlers before people have had their fill? I'd say this is an ideal time for Triple H to end his career as full-time performer because they won't have a choice but to make a few serious headline players.

[KJFTW]

The Rock to me has always been the best at promos, and last week was a breath of fresh air that was really needed. Maybe things get better from here.

[lazorbeak]

I guess id agree with this. It was probably back then you would have Rock or Austin headlining a show and it would get tremendous buy rates whoever they were facing. I was just thinking in a few years if we get to the point of The Miz headlining vs CM Punk that the casual fans are going to have very little interest in buying that PPV. Of course this trend has been happening now despite still having Undertaker, HHH and Cena doing a lot of the headlining.

I don't agree with this at all. With the right story and the right talent, you can make a CM Punk or The Miz into a "megastar" type guy. I mean WWF in 1996-97 had lost nearly every proven main event draw they had ever had, and were left with a couple of excellent workers the casual fans never showed any interest in. But in 1998, despite losing both of those workers to injury and screwjobs, WWF had a banner year and suddenly caught mainstream attention. But if you had told those casual fans in 1996 that they would pay to see Steve Austin or Rocky Maivia wrestle anybody, they would've looked at you like you were crazy. Those guys caught fire because there was a big power vacuum and they stepped in and filled it with their ability to connect with the crowd along with a compelling story. There's no reason to think that the casual fan will never be interested again or that no one will ever come along that connects with fans to the same extent.

Just look at WCW: their main event was full of proven draws. But by 1998, there was enough fatigue with all of them that Goldberg became the hottest act they had. Granted they completely botched it, but they took a guy that nobody had ever heard of and made him a top draw in less than a year, and this was in an absolutely loaded roster.

One of the biggest problems with WWE today is they can't/won't build babyfaces like that anymore. You take a guy like Ezekiel Jackson and put him on TV every week, just destroying people, and he'd get over. Would he be the next Goldberg or the next Glacier? I guess you wouldn't know until you actually tried to get him over.

[juggaloninjalee]

I don't agree with this at all. With the right story and the right talent, you can make a CM Punk or The Miz into a "megastar" type guy. I mean WWF in 1996-97 had lost nearly every proven main event draw they had ever had, and were left with a couple of excellent workers the casual fans never showed any interest in. But in 1998, despite losing both of those workers to injury and screwjobs, WWF had a banner year and suddenly caught mainstream attention. But if you had told those casual fans in 1996 that they would pay to see Steve Austin or Rocky Maivia wrestle anybody, they would've looked at you like you were crazy. Those guys caught fire because there was a big power vacuum and they stepped in and filled it with their ability to connect with the crowd along with a compelling story. There's no reason to think that the casual fan will never be interested again or that no one will ever come along that connects with fans to the same extent.

Just look at WCW: their main event was full of proven draws. But by 1998, there was enough fatigue with all of them that Goldberg became the hottest act they had. Granted they completely botched it, but they took a guy that nobody had ever heard of and made him a top draw in less than a year, and this was in an absolutely loaded roster.

One of the biggest problems with WWE today is they can't/won't build babyfaces like that anymore. You take a guy like Ezekiel Jackson and put him on TV every week, just destroying people, and he'd get over. Would he be the next Goldberg or the next Glacier? I guess you wouldn't know until you actually tried to get him over.

The monster push almost always works. Take a guy like Otunga and once he gets more experience and is a little better in the ring. Turn him face and let him destroy everyone in Nexus 1 by 1. First month he goes against the lowest guy. Then the following the next guy up. Then the 3rd month both of them in a gauntlet match. Followed by the big guy (whoever it is at the time) and then the leader.

I don't know if Otunga could be a mega draw but I think people have already shown some interest in him character wise. With improvement that guy could make some $$$ I think.

[ampulator]

The monster push almost always works. Take a guy like Otunga and once he gets more experience and is a little better in the ring. Turn him face and let him destroy everyone in Nexus 1 by 1. First month he goes against the lowest guy. Then the following the next guy up. Then the 3rd month both of them in a gauntlet match. Followed by the big guy (whoever it is at the time) and then the leader.

I don't know if Otunga could be a mega draw but I think people have already shown some interest in him character wise. With improvement that guy could make some $$$ I think.
Actually, it doesn't ALWAYS work. Especially if the fans don't accept it. Look what happened to Sheamus... when his push died down, the fans stopped caring. The only way to sustain a monster push is constantly pushing... and that gets resentment.

[Hive]

The monster push almost always works. Take a guy like Otunga and once he gets more experience and is a little better in the ring. Turn him face and let him destroy everyone in Nexus 1 by 1. First month he goes against the lowest guy. Then the following the next guy up. Then the 3rd month both of them in a gauntlet match. Followed by the big guy (whoever it is at the time) and then the leader.

I don't know if Otunga could be a mega draw but I think people have already shown some interest in him character wise. With improvement that guy could make some $$$ I think.

I find it more likely that they'll just repeat the Batista formula with Batista 2.0 aka Mason Ryan, with him eventually turning face against The Nexus like Batista did against Evolution.

[GatorBait19]

So off topic, my wife some friends and I went to a restaurant in new tampa area called wasabi which is a Japanese grill and we saw john cena. He was in our group for people we ate with. Real fun night all in and cena is funnier than crap.

[Remianen]

I'm not entirely sure this is an accurate statement. I believe he was still using "the Rock" when he was still with the WWE/F... He did like three movies while still technically in the WWE, and dropped "The Rock" from his name right after he left (I might be wrong, as I'm going off memmory/recollection). I know he did the two Mummy movies while still in the WWF/E.

He seemed to me to try and disconnect with the Wrestling, but nicely.... he wasn't "mean" in any way, never bad mouthed anyone, etc. I mean he just never seemed like he wanted to talk about it. To me, it was obvious. I just feel like he is acknowledging that he is able to be both people, without one hurting the other. I actually believe it would have helped him more if he would have been that way to start with.

chris, as usual, you miss the forest for the trees. He dropped 'The Rock' from his name for monetary reasons. Go back and look at the credits for every movie he did where he was billed as 'The Rock' or 'Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson'. You see that 'In Association with WWE Films' blurb? The name had to be licensed because it's owned by the 'E. Thus, cutting ties and dropping that from his name made him more attractive for a wider variety of roles since producers wouldn't have to give points to the 'E to use his 'stage name'.

My opinion is that I just think he didn't have to cut himself off like he did. I'm not saying to keep on wrestling, or anything like that... but to cut yourself off like he did almost entirely from the industry that loved him (and gave him the chance to do what he was doing) wasn't the brightest move. IF I were his friend I would have told him so. As I said, that's just my opinion.

The negative is something that you can't really see because it's not there to see. IF that's what your saying, then I agree.... However, your not that shallow are you?

Your not going to sit there and type that you don't understand that what I am saying is that I believe he could have done even better with the movies (had much more success) with the wrestling fans totally behind him?

Look at the success of the movie that ALOT of people went to see, when he was just a CGI character (The Mummy Returns/movie with him as the Scorpion King). When he was still "there" for the fans.... The success of that one movie, and the knowledge it has alot to do with him being in it, is what launched the Scorpion King in which he played the lead in. This was the reason his whole carreer took off in the first place.

If you refuse to acknowledge any wrestling fans as being able to support (in a pretty big way) a person enough to help them become successfull, then your even dissagreeing with what he said as "Dwayne" on Raw.

As I said, this is my opinion. You can't "see" the difference because there is no way to go back and see what would have happened had he played it differently. I'm just speculating (and going by the financial success, which has been acknowledged as because of the wrestling fans, of his first appearance in a big budget movie).

It might look like apples and oranges to you... and what effects Wrestling fans cannot effect movie fans (or vise versa), then there is no way I am going to get you to understand what I'm saying (although I believe you understood the first time).

Yeah, I mean look at the blockbuster numbers The Marine, 12 Rounds, and See No Evil did! Boy, those wrestling fans showed up in force. :rolleyes: You do realize that 'Race to Witch Mountain' (the first movie he did solely as Dwayne Johnson, with his name above the title (thus, "carrying" the film) that didn't have a star-studded cast (like Get Smart)) grossed more money by itself than The Marine, 12 Rounds, and See No Evil combined, yes? Heck, throw 'The Condemned' in there too and it's still true. Sorry chris, I'm just not seeing this point of view that alienating wrestling fans (if you want to call it that) should be something you never do. He did what was best for advancing his career and I see nothing to prove that cowtowing to the wrestling audience would have increased the end result. Wrestling fans are notorious for ignoring movies starring the biggest wrestling names of the time. Notorious. Look it up. They can produce TV ratings (Nash Bridges) but box office magic? No. I guess they spend all their money on merch. :p

Also keep in mind that the Rock is a uniquely talented individual who crossed over effortlessly. Could you see Austin playing Elliott in 'Be Cool'? Hogan? Cena? I think you are grossly overestimating the impact of wrestling fans on other areas of entertainment. As someone has said already, there's still a stigma, a sort of taint, surrounding wrestling. So while WWE might be the most mainstream wrestling company, that doesn't make them 'mainstream' exactly. By that I mean, being a "star" in WWE doesn't necessarily make you a "star" outside of wrestling circles.

All that said, I loved that segment. I kinda hope chris is right and he doesn't come back fulltime (or more than sporadically) and I'd definitely hope he doesn't wrestle more than once more. I'd like to see him do more movies, being the more lucrative avenue available to him. By the time Simone's ready for college, it'll cost like a hundred grand a year. :p I just don't want to see him wind up like seemingly everyone else: physically devastated due to working that ridiculous schedule and dealing with injuries and such. I swear, wrestlers are getting up there with retired NFL players as far as post-retirement physical condition is concerned (no cartilage in the knees, need for hip/knee replacements, early onset arthritis/rheumatism, mental problems due to multiple untreated brain injuries, devastated financial status, etc). Get that money and pull a Will Smith. :)

[brashleyholland]

Also keep in mind that the Rock is a uniquely talented individual who crossed over effortlessly. Could you see Austin playing Elliott in 'Be Cool'? Hogan? Cena? I think you are grossly overestimating the impact of wrestling fans on other areas of entertainment. As someone has said already, there's still a stigma, a sort of taint, surrounding wrestling. So while WWE might be the most mainstream wrestling company, that doesn't make them 'mainstream' exactly. By that I mean, being a "star" in WWE doesn't necessarily make you a "star" outside of wrestling circles.



^^These are the money comments right here ^^

As someone who has devoted his life to MMA in every way possible, from competing, writing, promoting and even getting some sexy 'Vale Tudo' and 'R' (and only a true MMA geek will get know what that means!) tattoos, I'll happily admit that no MMA fighter is going to crack the box office on the back of being an MMA fighter. Same for wrestlers.

There are numerous movies to prove the point. Same as there are numerous movies 'staring' wrestlers to prove the point. The Rock is one of those unique talents. It's nothing to do with him being a wrestler, it's everything to do with him being 'The Rock'. One of a kind.

[jbergey_2005]

I don't agree with this at all. With the right story and the right talent, you can make a CM Punk or The Miz into a "megastar" type guy. I mean WWF in 1996-97 had lost nearly every proven main event draw they had ever had, and were left with a couple of excellent workers the casual fans never showed any interest in. But in 1998, despite losing both of those workers to injury and screwjobs, WWF had a banner year and suddenly caught mainstream attention. But if you had told those casual fans in 1996 that they would pay to see Steve Austin or Rocky Maivia wrestle anybody, they would've looked at you like you were crazy. Those guys caught fire because there was a big power vacuum and they stepped in and filled it with their ability to connect with the crowd along with a compelling story. There's no reason to think that the casual fan will never be interested again or that no one will ever come along that connects with fans to the same extent.


Of course great storylines and exciting performers are going to bring back fans however comparing it to the late 90s is a bit extreme I think. The talent in the late 90s was great and while the NWO angle was drawing in new fans the WWF was developing new talent which would eventually steal those fans that the NWO angle had brought in. I think the worst thing the WWE has done to themselves is sort of create a monopoly on the wrestling business. Now they have no other company to help them build stars. Perhaps they need a company to steal talent from to keep their own guys looking strong.

[lazorbeak]

chris, as usual, you miss the forest for the trees. He dropped 'The Rock' from his name for monetary reasons. Go back and look at the credits for every movie he did where he was billed as 'The Rock' or 'Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson'. You see that 'In Association with WWE Films' blurb? The name had to be licensed because it's owned by the 'E. Thus, cutting ties and dropping that from his name made him more attractive for a wider variety of roles since producers wouldn't have to give points to the 'E to use his 'stage name'.

I've mentioned this at least once before, but Rock owns his name rights and has for some time. Vince stopped getting executive producer credits way back in 2005's Be Cool, despite Rock continuing to use that name and Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson for several years.

He started going by the hybrid and then the Dwayne Johnson name because while "The Rock" remains a somewhat viable action movie brand name (despite action movies no longer being the box office draws they once were), Dwayne Johnson could make family films or Get Smart or Witch Mountain without being solely associated with the negative stigma of being a wrassler.

jbergey: I definitely agree with you that the 90's are not identical in all ways to the current situation. But my point is you have the advantage of hindsight over the 90's. While it was happening, the perception was that WWF was in trouble, because they had lost all their proven draws. And nobody could have predicted in 1996 that the Ringmaster would be one of the all-time greats or that Rocky Maivia would be going over Hogan at Wrestlemania within 6 years' time.

The biggest problem though is that as you say, all of WWF's big stars (except the Rock), gained significant experience elsewhere. The industry in general was far healthier so you had a lot of guys who worked up the ranks by gaining experience in smaller promotions, including WCW in the early 90's when it was a distant #2. Now, even if Sheamus or Jack Swagger have the potential to be big names, they lack the years of experience that any midcarder in WWE would've possessed as recently as 12 years ago.

[milamber]

Think there will be any Nexus vs. Corre at Elimination Chamber?

Only if Corre turn face or most fans won't know who to root for. Don't mind them turning face except Barrett who's better as a heel right now.

[BurningHamster]

The monster push almost always works. Take a guy like Otunga and once he gets more experience and is a little better in the ring. Turn him face and let him destroy everyone in Nexus 1 by 1. First month he goes against the lowest guy. Then the following the next guy up. Then the 3rd month both of them in a gauntlet match. Followed by the big guy (whoever it is at the time) and then the leader.

I don't know if Otunga could be a mega draw but I think people have already shown some interest in him character wise. With improvement that guy could make some $$$ I think.

Otunga fricken sucks and pushing a pansy like him as a monster would make me cry. He might have a decent look (but decent is about it) and some basic charisma but he is horrible in the ring and I could not buy him as a monster. Dude is Nathan Jones level in the ring and Jones was way more believable as a monster. WWE fans might be able to go for it but I am not the least bit concerned with anyone's enjoyment but my own so screw what they think. :D

[juggaloninjalee]

Otunga fricken sucks and pushing a pansy like him as a monster would make me cry. He might have a decent look (but decent is about it) and some basic charisma but he is horrible in the ring and I could not buy him as a monster. Dude is Nathan Jones level in the ring and Jones was way more believable as a monster. WWE fans might be able to go for it but I am not the least bit concerned with anyone's enjoyment but my own so screw what they think. :D

I agree Otunga isn't good in the ring. He does have a look and charisma though and if you push him as a heel it hides a lot of his flaws. He would need a lot of work though. My only point was I could see him in 10 years being something and a lot of people could become really good in wrestling with time and practice.

[juggaloninjalee]

Double Post*

[PeterHilton]

jbergey: I definitely agree with you that the 90's are not identical in all ways to the current situation. But my point is you have the advantage of hindsight over the 90's. While it was happening, the perception was that WWF was in trouble, because they had lost all their proven draws. And nobody could have predicted in 1996 that the Ringmaster would be one of the all-time greats or that Rocky Maivia would be going over Hogan at Wrestlemania within 6 years' time.

The biggest problem though is that as you say, all of WWF's big stars (except the Rock), gained significant experience elsewhere. The industry in general was far healthier so you had a lot of guys who worked up the ranks by gaining experience in smaller promotions, including WCW in the early 90's when it was a distant #2. Now, even if Sheamus or Jack Swagger have the potential to be big names, they lack the years of experience that any midcarder in WWE would've possessed as recently as 12 years ago.

Agree with jbergey and with what lazorbeak is putting here.

I say this roughly every 6th post, but the WWE has spent so much time attempting to eliminate the 'unpredictability' of the talent development process, that they've also cut out a good bit of the raw creativity.

There's no place to work up the ranks, they try to avoid hiring indy workers unless they fall into strict 'WWE guidelines' ...maybe the hiring of Mistico is a sign of things to come where the only 'proven commodiities' they will work to aquire will be stars from other countries.

[Tag01]

So is it safe to assume that Rock will only be around through Wrestlemania? I haven't watched wrestling at all since I got married but am intrigued with Rocky being back. If I thought he was going to be around a while I might turn it on again...

[ampulator]

Agree with jbergey and with what lazorbeak is putting here.

I say this roughly every 6th post, but the WWE has spent so much time attempting to eliminate the 'unpredictability' of the talent development process, that they've also cut out a good bit of the raw creativity.

There's no place to work up the ranks, they try to avoid hiring indy workers unless they fall into strict 'WWE guidelines' ...maybe the hiring of Mistico is a sign of things to come where the only 'proven commodiities' they will work to aquire will be stars from other countries.
I don't mind "proven commodities"... that's just smart business.

What I DO mind is stifling creativity. Now, to be fair, the WWF was always pretty well controlled, even in beginning. But not to the degree it is today. I

[PoisonedSuperman]

I have a question that I always wondered and feel that some of you smarter fans can answer better then I can, what exactly shows that a guy is going to be a superstar?

For some reason I've been thinking this for a few days now, a few winters ago I went to a house show in Buffalo, NY where I live. My older brother who didn't/doesn't watch wrestling since he was younger told me after the show that Randy Orton was going to be a star one day. Orton was fueding with the Undertaker at the time (if this is any indication of the time period? Also Bobby Lashley just made the main roster).

His explanation? Anyone could look good doing the moves but Randy Orton "Knew how to take an ass whooping and that's whats most important". So as I said I've been thinking about it over the past few days, and I guess he is kind of right. How do YOU know and who is a good example of a young guy that you feel is your prospect for the future?

[Jaysin]

Well the second my brother saw Ken Anderson wrestle his first match on Velocity he said "Wow, this guy is going somewhere some day."

My brother does that a lot. Ken wasn't even being booked to look strong in the match, but some how he was able to just look at him in the ring and knew he'd go some where.

[LoNdOn]

With Ziggler being "fired" my money is on Triple H making his return at the Chamber in his place.

Thoughts?

[Fantabulous]

Thoughts?

I will stake the farm that we don't see that happening.

I remember watching WCW Worldwide in early 1994 and seeing this wrestler called Terra Ryzing and I thought he is going to go places. And he did. Of course, he had to pack on 40lbs but he did go places.

[LoNdOn]

I will stake the farm that we don't see that happening.

I remember watching WCW Worldwide in early 1994 and seeing this wrestler called Terra Ryzing and I thought he is going to go places. And he did. Of course, he had to pack on 40lbs but he did go places.

I was just thinking about the rumours going around about a Mr Helmsley going up against Taker at Mania (which I do not want to see at all) guessing he will re-appear before then.

[Jaysin]

Triple H said in an interview that he'd be back sooner than Wrestlemania. Well, his exact words were when someone asked abut him returning at Wrestlemania he said "sooner rather than later"

[djthefunkchris]

chris, as usual, you miss the forest for the trees. He dropped 'The Rock' from his name for monetary reasons. Go back and look at the credits for every movie he did where he was billed as 'The Rock' or 'Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson'. You see that 'In Association with WWE Films' blurb? The name had to be licensed because it's owned by the 'E. Thus, cutting ties and dropping that from his name made him more attractive for a wider variety of roles since producers wouldn't have to give points to the 'E to use his 'stage name'.





Yeah, I mean look at the blockbuster numbers The Marine, 12 Rounds, and See No Evil did! Boy, those wrestling fans showed up in force. :rolleyes: You do realize that 'Race to Witch Mountain' (the first movie he did solely as Dwayne Johnson, with his name above the title (thus, "carrying" the film) that didn't have a star-studded cast (like Get Smart)) grossed more money by itself than The Marine, 12 Rounds, and See No Evil combined, yes? Heck, throw 'The Condemned' in there too and it's still true. Sorry chris, I'm just not seeing this point of view that alienating wrestling fans (if you want to call it that) should be something you never do. He did what was best for advancing his career and I see nothing to prove that cowtowing to the wrestling audience would have increased the end result. Wrestling fans are notorious for ignoring movies starring the biggest wrestling names of the time. Notorious. Look it up. They can produce TV ratings (Nash Bridges) but box office magic? No. I guess they spend all their money on merch. :p

Also keep in mind that the Rock is a uniquely talented individual who crossed over effortlessly. Could you see Austin playing Elliott in 'Be Cool'? Hogan? Cena? I think you are grossly overestimating the impact of wrestling fans on other areas of entertainment. As someone has said already, there's still a stigma, a sort of taint, surrounding wrestling. So while WWE might be the most mainstream wrestling company, that doesn't make them 'mainstream' exactly. By that I mean, being a "star" in WWE doesn't necessarily make you a "star" outside of wrestling circles.

All that said, I loved that segment. I kinda hope chris is right and he doesn't come back fulltime (or more than sporadically) and I'd definitely hope he doesn't wrestle more than once more. I'd like to see him do more movies, being the more lucrative avenue available to him. By the time Simone's ready for college, it'll cost like a hundred grand a year. :p I just don't want to see him wind up like seemingly everyone else: physically devastated due to working that ridiculous schedule and dealing with injuries and such. I swear, wrestlers are getting up there with retired NFL players as far as post-retirement physical condition is concerned (no cartilage in the knees, need for hip/knee replacements, early onset arthritis/rheumatism, mental problems due to multiple untreated brain injuries, devastated financial status, etc). Get that money and pull a Will Smith. :)

There is nothing you said there that gives me reason to change my thoughts, so I must still be missing the forest for the trees (although that statement was followed by a false statement).:p

Also..... You didn't just compare a Disney movie to WWE films... Films that 90% of don't even go to the box office unless it's a "test", intentionally.;)

As I said though... My thoughts are just my thoughts, what I believe. Doesn't mean I'm right. :eek:

If there is one person I would never want to debate with you, it's the Rock.... I'm a fan, but your more then a fan, so there is no doing wrong for the Rock in your book, even if I prooved I was right somehow, you would find an excuse to make it right for The Rock.:cool:

Just remember, I'm a fan of The Rock as well, and want as much success for him as you do. I'm not an enemy. All I'm saying is I believe there was a way he could have been more successfull then he has been, and I believe he could be even more successful in the future if he stays connected. Meaning, I think he's taking my advice now.:D

[BHK1978]

I have a question that I always wondered and feel that some of you smarter fans can answer better then I can, what exactly shows that a guy is going to be a superstar?

For some reason I've been thinking this for a few days now, a few winters ago I went to a house show in Buffalo, NY where I live. My older brother who didn't/doesn't watch wrestling since he was younger told me after the show that Randy Orton was going to be a star one day. Orton was fueding with the Undertaker at the time (if this is any indication of the time period? Also Bobby Lashley just made the main roster).

His explanation? Anyone could look good doing the moves but Randy Orton "Knew how to take an ass whooping and that's whats most important". So as I said I've been thinking about it over the past few days, and I guess he is kind of right. How do YOU know and who is a good example of a young guy that you feel is your prospect for the future?

Very tough one on that. I remember when the Rock first came on television and I thought he was lame. I had no clue he would become what he became.

Same thing with The Undertaker, I was in Junior High School (yeah I am old) when he first became The Undertaker and I remember thinking he was lame and this new character he was doing was lame. I mean how could they take the guy from The Skyscrapers who walked the top rope and turn him into an Undertaker?:D Well they did.

I was always a huge fan of Steve Austin going back to when he first came into the NWA/WCW. I am not sure why that was but I was. That being said, I found him to be a good wrestler who was a little bland. Never in my wildest dreams did I think his popularity would either equal or surpass that of Hulk Hogan's. Weird thing I actually was not a huge Stone Cold fan, because I felt like I was a fan of his before it was cool to be a fan of his. And once everyone and their brother loved him, I kind of felt blah about him.:D

So I guess I am just a poor judge of talent.

[jbergey_2005]

Very tough one on that. I remember when the Rock first came on television and I thought he was lame. I had no clue he would become what he became.

Same thing with The Undertaker, I was in Junior High School (yeah I am old) when he first became The Undertaker and I remember thinking he was lame and this new character he was doing was lame. I mean how could they take the guy from The Skyscrapers who walked the top rope and turn him into an Undertaker?:D Well they did.

I was always a huge fan of Steve Austin going back to when he first came into the NWA/WCW. I am not sure why that was but I was. That being said, I found him to be a good wrestler who was a little bland. Never in my wildest dreams did I think his popularity would either equal or surpass that of Hulk Hogan's. Weird thing I actually was not a huge Stone Cold fan, because I felt like I was a fan of his before it was cool to be a fan of his. And once everyone and their brother loved him, I kind of felt blah about him.:D

So I guess I am just a poor judge of talent.

Yeah I agree its difficult to see into the future. Orton had a look to him that you might speculate he is going to be a big star plus if he was feuding with UT at the time it would seem the WWE did as well but a lot of these guys come out of no where. Orton was probably one more mess up from being done with the WWE. I dont think many would have expected Cena to become a megastar either.

[BHK1978]

Yeah I agree its difficult to see into the future. Orton had a look to him that you might speculate he is going to be a big star plus if he was feuding with UT at the time it would seem the WWE did as well but a lot of these guys come out of no where. Orton was probably one more mess up from being done with the WWE. I dont think many would have expected Cena to become a megastar either.

I think a huge part of Orton's push was who his father is and his look. I know a lot of female wrestling fans that swoon over him. So I think Orton had a slight advantage but I do agree with what you said.

As for Cena, I agree with you on that one. It is weird how fans take to one person and not to others. Even the Pope in TNA, I never got why he had such a big reaction when he was a fan favorite (big reaction for TNA that is). However, this is coming from someone who was a huge fan of Bobby Eaton growing up so I am not exactly the mainstream fan I guess.

[MattitudeV2]

With Ziggler being "fired" my money is on Triple H making his return at the Chamber in his place.

Thoughts?

Or Taker which would make more sense.

[milamber]

Great idea to have some title controversy leading into a PPV. Does this mean Ziggler's switching brands? I'm rooting for McIntyre to win the Heavyweight title in the Smackdown EC match (even if it'll never happen).

BTW, is Daniel Bryan ever going to defend the US Title again?

[20LEgend]

Could Christian be back for SD EC?

[Fantabulous]

I've just assumed Vickie gets Ziggler back in the match somehow and moved on. It's not like they haven't had Vickie get around things before over and over again. I presume it's still Edge vs. Del Rio for the title at Wrestlemania which means Edge walks out the winner and I don't see Triple H or Undertaker coming back as a surprise only to lose unless it's something special. Wrestlemania main event? That would count as something special. Elimination Chamber match on a secondary PPV? That would not. If Christian is fit, then it could be him. Could be someone from the 12-man tag on Smackdown. But I still say they find a way to get Ziggler back in it so he can get speared for the umpteenth time in six-weeks.

[LoNdOn]

Could Christian be back for SD EC?

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooh I like this a lot!

[eayragt]

It would be an opportunity to swap Ziggler with someone in the RAW Chamber match, which would be Sheamus, Killings or Morrison. Morrison's route to the gold would be shorter on Smackdown...

[MrOnu]

BTW, is Daniel Bryan ever going to defend the US Title again?

Well, it's not like The Miz defended the title very often either. At least, they are consistent with that.

[juggaloninjalee]

Who fired Dolph Ziggler? I don't watch Smackdown very often. I watched a few minutes of it yesterday though.

I would watch Smackdown much more if Christian was back.

[jwt13]

So I was on YouTube and came across some promos of a guy that ran on wwe and he was like a mordici(sp) gimmick mixed with the fallen angel gimmick and I was think this could be the guy who debuts monday doubtful but idk :) and if somebody knows any info about this guy let me know his name was like hade venson or somthing. The gimmick could have been huge IMO he was look it up I'd post a link but I'm on my iPod

[Fantabulous]

So I was on YouTube and came across some promos of a guy that ran on wwe and he was like a mordici(sp) gimmick mixed with the fallen angel gimmick and I was think this could be the guy who debuts monday doubtful but idk :) and if somebody knows any info about this guy let me know his name was like hade venson or somthing. The gimmick could have been huge IMO he was look it up I'd post a link but I'm on my iPod
His name was indeed Hade Vansen. He was a British wrestler and was set to lead a group of some kind in a major feud with The Undertaker. And after they aired that vignette, and I know the one you mean because it was the only one they ran, Vince changed his mind, canned the idea of the feud and Vansen was released a short time later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGlvsG8ab0w

[1234]

So I was on YouTube and came across some promos of a guy that ran on wwe and he was like a mordici(sp) gimmick mixed with the fallen angel gimmick and I was think this could be the guy who debuts monday doubtful but idk :) and if somebody knows any info about this guy let me know his name was like hade venson or somthing. The gimmick could have been huge IMO he was look it up I'd post a link but I'm on my iPod

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWjSPWo-ZkA

Your right it is Hade Vansen, that promo was years ago. Has potential but I would say there is a 0% chance he debuts as the result of the 2/21/11.

Edit- Beaten to the punch.

[Prophet]

And the guy who was gonna be his enforcer during that feud was also released. Black Pain aka Big Pappi Sanchez. Shame, really ... I thought the idea could've become something. Maybe not the most memorable feud in all of wrestling, but something decent.

[eayragt]

Just incase anyone in the UK hadn't realised (like me until now), Elimination Chamber is on regular Sky Sports. In normally is each year, but I'd forgotten until I realised that Sky weren't advertisign it on Box Office.

[1234]

Just incase anyone in the UK hadn't realised (like me until now), Elimination Chamber is on regular Sky Sports. In normally is each year, but I'd forgotten until I realised that Sky weren't advertisign it on Box Office.

I love this. Elimination Chamber is normally an interesting PPV so am glad its free (well if you have Sky Sports)...even if it is just to gain interest for Wrestlemania.

[Fantabulous]

Let's assume Vince saw the Hansen vignette before it aired. If he had any qualms about the vignette, Hansen or the feud in general, why air it? Why give TV time to something you might change your mind on? I would think Vince would want to be damn sure of something, especially involving a feud with one of his top acts, before putting it out there. Then again, he may have done all that, seen the vignette and loved the idea and come Friday after it aired, changed his mind.

[Teh_Showtime]

well it was just SmackDown so he prolly didnt care. But at least Mordecai got to debut, and I think called out taker before.

[James Casey]

Let's assume Vince saw the Hansen vignette before it aired. If he had any qualms about the vignette, Hansen or the feud in general, why air it? Why give TV time to something you might change your mind on? I would think Vince would want to be damn sure of something, especially involving a feud with one of his top acts, before putting it out there. Then again, he may have done all that, seen the vignette and loved the idea and come Friday after it aired, changed his mind.

One word: Kizarney.

Vince has day-to-day approval of everything that goes on in a WWE ring, but by no means is he said to pay that close attention to it. Even back in the mid-90s, Vince signed Mick Foley on the recommendation of his advisors.

There's a story going around that Vince didn't know that the Major Brothers (Zack Ryder and Curt Hawkins) weren't actually brothers. When he found that out, he ordered that they be repackaged. Eight months on TV and he didn't know?

*

Not only is EC on free TV tomorrow night, but coincidentally I have Monday off work. So early Monday morning I'll sit down with my breakfast and get my Chamber on.

Or something slightly less dreadful sounding...

[LoNdOn]

I was just watching NXT (yes it is still going) and there was a moment where I genuinly cracked up. Daniel Bryan took on Derrick Bateman and they shook hands at the start of the match. Dolph Ziggler ever the opportunist for a good insult quipped, "This isn't ROH, don't shake hands!" via the live microphone.

Brilliant.