The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[ampulator]

One word: Kizarney.

Vince has day-to-day approval of everything that goes on in a WWE ring, but by no means is he said to pay that close attention to it. Even back in the mid-90s, Vince signed Mick Foley on the recommendation of his advisors.

There's a story going around that Vince didn't know that the Major Brothers (Zack Ryder and Curt Hawkins) weren't actually brothers. When he found that out, he ordered that they be repackaged. Eight months on TV and he didn't know?

*

Not only is EC on free TV tomorrow night, but coincidentally I have Monday off work. So early Monday morning I'll sit down with my breakfast and get my Chamber on.

Or something slightly less dreadful sounding...
"Last say" sounds like everyone boss I've known. Technically, they have the last say, but it's not hard to slip things by them if they don't pay attention.

[MrOnu]

Who fired Dolph Ziggler? I don't watch Smackdown very often. I watched a few minutes of it yesterday though.

I would watch Smackdown much more if Christian was back.

Teddy Long fired him moments afters Vickie admitted that Dolph attacked Long a couple weeks ago and injured him.

[Basmat01]

Hey was just having alook around wrestlecrap.com and they have an entry on Triple H's new movie The Chaperone

http://www.wrestlecrap.com/newinduction2.html

Man it had me LMAO

[1234]

I was just watching NXT (yes it is still going) and there was a moment where I genuinly cracked up. Daniel Bryan took on Derrick Bateman and they shook hands at the start of the match. Dolph Ziggler ever the opportunist for a good insult quipped, "This isn't ROH, don't shake hands!" via the live microphone.

Brilliant.

Love it. Especially since Dolph used to have the handshake gimmick :p

[b0shey]

I'm calling it Sting has the final SD Spot :p

[Hashasheen]

One word: Kizarney.

Vince has day-to-day approval of everything that goes on in a WWE ring, but by no means is he said to pay that close attention to it. Even back in the mid-90s, Vince signed Mick Foley on the recommendation of his advisors.

There's a story going around that Vince didn't know that the Major Brothers (Zack Ryder and Curt Hawkins) weren't actually brothers. When he found that out, he ordered that they be repackaged. Eight months on TV and he didn't know?

I've also heard hedidn't know Paul London & Brian Kendrick wore masks till they entered the ring for that same amount of time. I think he just might not pay close attention to the tag-team division. :p

[BurningHamster]

I've also heard hedidn't know Paul London & Brian Kendrick wore masks till they entered the ring for that same amount of time. I think he just might not pay close attention to the tag-team division. :p

I also remember a story from a few years ago when McMahon passed a monitor backstage, saw Kacey James on TV for a few minutes, figured he was one of the local job guys and said "Hire that man!" not realizing he already worked for them.

To be fair though, I can fully understand McMahon not paying huge amounts of attention and leaving a lot of the booking and day to day stuff to other people and instead focusing on the overall direction of the company.

[James Casey]

In a sense, absolutely - I wouldn't expect Vince to follow anything but the ongoign storylines all that closely, and none of these guys really had anything much going on during their time in WWE.

Still, it does seem odd that the senior booker isn't familiar with his roster to at least the degree that he knows the basics about their gimmicks and so on.

It almost seems that Vince has become complacent without any real challenge to the company.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

It almost seems that Vince has become complacent without any real challenge to the company.

I would say that he has. Without a serious threat, they have no real incentive to rock the boat and seem happy to trundle along making the cash they do.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I was just watching NXT (yes it is still going) and there was a moment where I genuinly cracked up. Daniel Bryan took on Derrick Bateman and they shook hands at the start of the match. Dolph Ziggler ever the opportunist for a good insult quipped, "This isn't ROH, don't shake hands!" via the live microphone.

Brilliant.

NXt is great, they are all so loose and relaxed it makes for a much more entertaining show. The guys get to actually show some character unlike when they are on Raw and SD.

[Jaysin]

Tonight is the first pay per view in two years that doesn't involve Orton or Cena in a title match.

[Teh_Showtime]

Tonight is the first pay per view in two years that doesn't involve Orton or Cena in a title match.

because they are both in the #1 contender match :rolleyes:. But that is saying something.

my pick for MOTN is already on Miz/Lawler though. I know Jerry will do his best to put Miz over

[Jaysin]

because they are both in the #1 contender match :rolleyes:. But that is saying something.

my pick for MOTN is already on Miz/Lawler though. I know Jerry will do his best to put Miz over

Now if only we can get a PPV without Orton and Cena completely...then again if that happens we'll have Triple H and Batista back...so its not much of a trade off.

[Teh_Showtime]

Now if only we can get a PPV without Orton and Cena completely...
Injury is our only hope.

But that shouldn't happen until they have more faces to carry the brand. Morrison will get there eventually.

[Jaysin]

Who I want to win tonight. Not who I think is going to win.

The Miz vs Jerry Lawler- I've always hated the King. It sucks his mom died, but it'd be stupid and hypocritical for WWE to put the title on him.

Santino and Kozlov vs The Corre- Honestly, I love the Santino/Kozlov act, but I love tag team wrestling more. I'd like a tag team that looks like a tag team win, so lets go Corre! Plus, Justin Gabriel is still awesome

Kofi Kingston vs Alberto Del Rio- I read somewhere that it might get switched to an Intercontinental Title match. I'd rather Kofi keep the belt and have him start defending it. It would really piss me off if they put the IC title on Alberto and then took it to Wrestlemania. I hate when they make midcard titles worthless more than WWE already has by making them props like they did with the Miz US title.

Smackdown Elimination Chamber- It'd be sweet if Christian takes Dolph's place and wins...but that's just wishful thinking. I expect Dolph to still take his own place and do something like "Hi, I'm Nic Nemeth..."

Raw Elimination Chamber- My first pick is John Morrison just because as a Dirt Sheet and Mizorrison die hard fan, them headlining Wrestlemania against each other is a dream come true. Plus, they've already proven they can put on great matches together. My second pick is CM Punk just because he's the best thing on Raw.

[Teh_Showtime]

Morrison better have his World title run within this year. :mad:

[ampulator]

Morrison better have his World title run within this year. :mad:
I hope he does, but I can understand why the WWE is skiitish on him. The plus side: He's exciting to watch, great at selling, has a boatloads of charisma, and has underrated psychology. On the negative side: He can talk on the mic very well. And his voice sounds of bit weird. It's as if he can't get his charisma into his mic work, which is odd.

I think he deserves it, though.

[lazorbeak]

Morrison has been amazing for awhile now. I would love to see a Morrison/Punk or Morrison/Miz headlined pay per view in the next six months. Yes he has downsides, some of the same downsides that kept Jeff Hardy from reaching the top for so long (fortunately he doesn't have Hardy's personal issues), but I think Hardy in 2009 proved there's room for a new top guy every now and again, even one with limited promo skills. I think he'd be an awesome short-term champ in the summer.

[Teh_Showtime]

The 3 way feud when he was going over Punk AND Hardy during their feud had some great matches on SD.

He pinned Punk clean 2 times in like a month while he was champ. I thought for sure he would be a champ shortly after that, but Punk's reign got shorted and he jobbed to Taker, who would not be a feud option for Morrison.

[ampulator]

I think Jeff manages by "charisma"ing through a promo. You remember Ultimate Warrior? No mic skill.... but he had this crazy charisma, and he pushed through with it. The thing is, I think he works well with people with a solid foundation with good mic skills, like the Miz. I really want to see an epic match between them.

[Candyman]

Tonight is the first pay per view in two years that doesn't involve Orton or Cena in a title match.

Yep. If you include Triple H, it's first PPV in seven years that doesn't involve one of the three in a title match or in the main event. (there were a few times Triple H was in the main event and it wasn't a title match) And this is the first time EVER that a PPV will have both World titles defended and none of those three are in either match.

Of course, the Elimination Chamber has given us some surprises the last two years, so we may be speaking too soon.

Speaking of surprises, POTENTIAL SPOILER: Reports are Christian and Goldust have been seen at the arena...could Christian be the final entrant in the SD! Elimination Chamber match?

[Jaysin]

Big Show? Ugh

[Teh_Showtime]

can someone PM me a stream possibly?

[Teh_Showtime]

thanks, good fellows

[borman_48]

Good grief. Rey's taking a beating.

[Teh_Showtime]

that spear spot was amazing

brought me back to the Day of Reckoning days :D

[Teh_Showtime]

Edgeucator!!!

[jwt13]

that ended up a good match at the end

[b0shey]

That was an amazing SD Elimination chamber match :D

Great to see Christian back ;)

[Teh_Showtime]

OMGOMGOMG

Instantly Classic

[Gouge]

Great match. Kinda disappointed they didn't really follow up on the McIntyre/Edge sub-feud, but still really enjoyable nonetheless. And hell yes for Christian!

[Teh_Showtime]

looks like good news for a post mania feud with Del Rio, as that means he is gonna be a main event player by draft time probably.

[jwt13]

does wwe call Christan christan cage or did booker slip up?

[Gouge]

Booker slipped up, tried to make it sound like he was just repeating "Christian" after that in excitement haha.

[Teh_Showtime]

Trish got a pretty huge pop.

[Jaysin]

Did anyone else notice Cole screw up? He said it was the 2010 Elimination Chamber. I got a chuckle out of it.

[Mr Rager]

Triple Threat at WrestleMania.

Christian vs Alberto Del Rio vs Edge for the World Heavyweight Championship

Christian to win.

Just a prediction. :)

[Teh_Showtime]

yeah caught it, talking about Jerry Lawler gonna lose right?

[Jaysin]

Yeah.

Just randomly thought of something...

How is Koko B Ware in the Hall of Fame but Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard aren't?

[Teh_Showtime]

Vince holds grudges?

[Jaysin]

Arn works for WWE though

[jwt13]

Lawlar will win tonight lose the title tomorrow

[Teh_Showtime]

that Troy Aikman metaphor was freakin' brilliant. Best one liner in a while

[Teh_Showtime]

At least Cole didnt have his headset on so we could his hear Mizgasm

[jwt13]

At least Cole didnt have his headset on so we could his hear Mizgasm

you spoke too soon

[jwt13]

lol eating fruity pebbles

[Teh_Showtime]

Spot of the year. Thank you Morrison

[Jaysin]

Ugh, Cena won of course. Morrison was the MVP of that match though.

[borman_48]

Spot of the year. Thank you Morrison


Which one? Morrison is officially the man.

[jwt13]

well if i may say so its offical Miz is a transional champion that will be fed to cena at mania

[Teh_Showtime]

Which one? Morrison is officially the man.

Punk was gonna slingshot him into a pod, dude sticks to the pod, diagonal leaps onto the chamber wall, and then flash kick to Punk.

all in about 3 seconds

[Prophet]

well if i may say so its offical Miz is a transional champion that will be fed to cena at mania

I dunno if I'd call Miz a transitional champion at this point. Also not sure I believe he's gonna lose at `mania.

More importantly, for a moment, I honestly believed Morrison might pull it out. When he thumped against the pod, and clutched his knee, I saw a moment where Punk eliminated Cena, only to turn around into Morrison doing something bizarre off the chamber, and picking up the upset victory. A good match, but Morrison made it something special.

[jwt13]

I dunno if I'd call Miz a transitional champion at this point. Also not sure I believe he's gonna lose at `mania.

More importantly, for a moment, I honestly believed Morrison might pull it out. When he thumped against the pod, and clutched his knee, I saw a moment where Punk eliminated Cena, only to turn around into Morrison doing something bizarre off the chamber, and picking up the upset victory. A good match, but Morrison made it something special.

I dont think he has a shot they wont have Cena the current Hulk Hogan lose to a young not yet proven superstar but well see.

And yes Morrison is awesome thats who i wanted to win tonight

[Teh_Showtime]

not yet proven superstar but well see.



and there is NO WAY that Undertaker will go over Syd at 'Mania :p

[jwt13]

and there is NO WAY that Undertaker will go over Syd at 'Mania :p

no way at all;) But syd wasn't THE top guy like Cena is give Miz a year or two then he'll have a good long reign

[Moe Hunter]

well if i may say so its offical Miz is a transional champion that will be fed to cena at mania

I don't think you can call him a "transitional champion" when he'll have held the belt from Survivor Series to Wrestlemania...

[jwt13]

I don't think you can call him a "transitional champion" when he'll have held the belt from Survivor Series to Wrestlemania...

I say it mostly on how he has been booked in a feud with lawlar and looking extremely weak most of the time. Miz has grown on me a little and with in a year or two will be as big as cena just needs to be booked better

[TheEdgeOfReason]

If Morrison doesn't get the title before Summerslam it will be a great shame. He killed it last night.

[Hashasheen]

Booker T, Trish Stratus & Steve Austin on Tough Enough? Yeah, Impact just got kicked off my schedule.

Cena winning was disappointing. Guess we're not getting Rock vs. Cena at Wrestlemania. Morrison vs. Miz would have been so much better.

Michael Cole was okay, until the Trish Stratus segment. Then he was complete ****.

Alberto winning was meh.

Corre winning was all right, though I'm not sure what the point of it will be. Can't see an interesting feud develop from this. Also, they're now two time tag team champions. Man the belts have gone down.

Kelly Kelly coming back was expected, though there could have been something decent coming out of her "firing". Respect for taking the crazy bumps and Trish intervening was also expected, but this time welcomed. She hasn't lost a step.

Miz remains as bland as ever to me. He needs to expand on what he's talking about. About the differences between his hard work ethic and what his opponents had handed to them perhaps. Things like that.

CM Punk needs to go back to spiky hair. He looks retarded like this.

[Fantabulous]

The anonymous GM is beyond intolerable but everyone knows that. And they've now gone from portraying Cole as a superfan of Miz to outright crushing on the guy. When Cole went into the ring to congratulate Miz, I fully expected him to offer Miz a celebratory reach around.

[ChrisKid]

Cena=Yawn

[milamber]

Kofi v Del Rio - Solid opener. Del Rio was always going to win.

SD Chamber - Awesome match. Happy that McIntyre looked impressive. Rey and Edge worked great together. I was covinced Edge would win and I like him as Champion, but I wouldn't have minded Rey winning so we'd have a Triple Threat Title Match at Mania.

Tag Team Match - The Corre finally win a title with a clean pin. Nice move for the tag division.

Angles - Christian's return was perfectly timed. The Teddy/Vicki/Kelly/Trish/LayCool angle was fun.

King v Miz - Miz continues to earn his spot at the top. King may be past his prime but he can sure sell a match. Nice spot with Cole being wiped out. Bring on King v Cole at Mania.

Raw Chamber - Another great match. I nearly lost it when Punk was "eliminated" because he's awesome. Loved seeing him pin Orton. Morrison's drop spot was cool. I was hoping he'd win. Don't mind Cena winning because at least Cena v Miz is a fresh rivalry and should sell a few Mania tickets.

Overall - Fantastic PPV leading into Mania. The shorter card and long Chamber matches really helped.

well if i may say so its offical Miz is a transional champion that will be fed to cena at mania

Not if they're smart. Miz beating Cena would be AWESOME!!!

Possible Wrestlemania Card:

Cena v Miz
Edge v Del Rio
King v Cole
Orton v Punk
Santino/Kozlov v Corre
Eve v Layla
Triple H v Undertaker
Everyone else in the MITB match - Morisson to win

[PoisonedSuperman]

I want Alex Riley to win the money in bank... so that after Cena beats the Miz, Riley and Miz can destroy Cena, Riley gives the case to Miz and Miz wins back his title!!!

[angeldelayette]

Does anyone else think that the Corre won the tag team titles so that we can have the Corre versus the Nexus at WrestleMania for the WWE World Tag Team titles?

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Does anyone else think that the Corre won the tag team titles so that we can have the Corre versus the Nexus at WrestleMania for the WWE World Tag Team titles?

Thats what I thought.

[milamber]

Notes:

Percy Watson defeated Ted DiBiase in a Raw dark match. Daniel Bryan beat Ted Dibiase in the EC dark match. Somebody hates DiBiase!

Trish Stratus and Kelly Kelly vs. Michelle McCool and Layla rumored for WM.

There was actually talk in creative meetings of Jerry Lawler winning the WWE Title from The Miz at Elimination Chamber. There was one idea for Lawler to win at the pay-per-view and then drop the belt on tonight’s RAW. There is a feeling that The Miz hasn’t gotten over how they want and they need to give him big wins now to get him over.

CM Punk's nasty EC cuts (http://www.wrestling-edge.com/wrestling-photos/photo-cm-punks-cuts-elimination-chamber.html)

Jericho will be Dancing with the Stars soon so he won't return until well after Wrestlemania.

For those who don't think McIntyre can be a babyface and cut a good promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=40X25mICaIE)

[TheEdgeOfReason]

CM Punk needs to go back to spiky hair. He looks retarded like this.

I like it:p

[Linsolv]

Noooo! I already miss him so...

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Was it me or where these both the best Chamber matches yet? I thought they had gone away from hardcore stuff but most of the Raw Chamber seemed to take place outside the ring.

Morrisons spot off the top was crazy. A botch there and it was game over for his career.

[1234]

Cena v Miz
Edge v Del Rio
King v Cole
Orton v Punk
Santino/Kozlov v Corre
Eve v Layla
Triple H v Undertaker
Everyone else in the MITB match - Morisson to win

Just edit this to my thoughts:

The Rock will be Enforcer/Referee to Miz vs Cena.
Christian will be added to the Edge vs Del Rio
Hopefully we dont have King vs Cole. That would be painful to watch.
Replace Santino/Kozlov with Bryan/Bateman. The NXT winners get a Tag Title shot, and that would give us something fun and different.
Divas match will probably be either Lay-Cool vs Trish/Kelly or some big Multi-Diva tag match.
Hoping its not HHH vs Undertaker, but most likely will be. Could find out tonight.
Dont want a MITB unless they get rid of the PPV.
Add: Kingston vs Swagger vs McIntyre vs Mysterio. A great opener for the IC title.
Add: Barrett vs Big Show. Or even Zeke vs Big Show. Need some filler in the show.
Add: Sheamus vs Morrison vs Truth. The show needs some Raw love.
Finally Re-order the matches to a good order.

Cena v Miz -Special Guest Ref/Enforcer The Rock
Edge v Del Rio v Christian
Trish/Kelly v Lay-Cool
??? v Undertaker
Bateman/Bryan v Corre
Orton v Punk
Sheamus v Morrison vs Truth
Barrett or Jackson v Big Show
Kingston v Swagger v McIntyre v Mysterio

Thats my Mania card.

[Mr Rager]

I posted it last night but my posts still needed verification then, so...

Is anyone else expecting a triple threat for the World Heavyweight Championship with Christian involved at WrestleMania?

[1234]

I posted it last night but my posts still needed verification then, so...

Is anyone else expecting a triple threat for the World Heavyweight Championship with Christian involved at WrestleMania?

Yep, I am. In my post above :p.

After what happened it has to be. And I hope Christian wins, he really deserves a World Championship run.

The emotions in that match would be incredible.
-Edge against the odds.
-Alberto trying to fulfill destiny.
-Christian trying to finally reach the top of the WWE mountain.
-Edge & Christians friendship (or are the WWE still saying brothers?)

[Fantabulous]

Is anyone else expecting a triple threat for the World Heavyweight Championship with Christian involved at WrestleMania?
If Christian is added to the match then it might be so ADR can pin him to win the title and allow the ADR/Edge feud to be prolonged or maybe to segue into a Christian/Edge feud to keep Edge away from ADR while he defends against other babyfaces. If Christian isn't added then his probable role is for ADR to get a strong TV win leading into the match with Edge.

[lazorbeak]

I know the internet is home of Christian-marks worldwide, but why on earth would he be added to the Smackdown Wrestlemania main event? Has Christian been a main eventer at any point since he's been on Smackdown? If the answer is no, why would he be boosted to the main event for Wrestlemania of all pay per views? I mean from a storyline perspective he's done nothing to earn a title shot: he wasn't a contender 5 months ago and he's spent the intervening time on the shelf. I mean throwing John Morrison into the Cena/Miz feud would make more sense, as at least he's had some impressive matches lately and has been booked as a top contender for the past 2 months. It wouldn't be a good idea either but it'd make more sense than adding Christian to the match. I just see it as a way of giving Del Rio somebody to beat up and gives Edge a tag team partner for the next few Smackdowns.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Thats what I've been thinking. The guy was a midcarder since he came back, it wouldn't make much sense to bump him into the ME for Mania.

[jwt13]

This is what I would like to see

Cena V. Miz Rock as ref-Cena wins the title after the match Rock lays out both of them leading to a triple threat in which Rock will win his last title.(I can hope right??)

Jim Ross V. Michale Cole winner becomes Raws head announcer

Divas match

MITB: JoMo, McIntyre, Rey, Mark Henry, Goldust, Christan, Tyler Reks, and during the match a returning Jericho enters the match when the raw GM chimes in and will win the match.

CM Punk V. Wade Barrett losers stable is disbanned

Undertaker V. The Second Guy in the 2/21/11 promo if there is a second guy

Alberto Del Rio V. Edge- edge wins after Booker T gets involved setting up a Booker/Edge feud

Daneil Bryan V. Ted Dibiase

Kofi Kingston V. Dolph Ziggler

Triple H V. Sheamus with HHH career on the line

[Teh_Showtime]

Jim Ross V. Michale Cole winner becomes Raws head announcer


God no

[juggaloninjalee]

Hey was just having alook around wrestlecrap.com and they have an entry on Triple H's new movie The Chaperone

http://www.wrestlecrap.com/newinduction2.html

Man it had me LMAO

That was hilarious!

If Christian got as big a pop as everyone is saying then maybe he can get a push to main event. Maybe by Summer Slam he could be in the title picture.

[masterded]

Are they still doing Money in the Bank at Mania now that it has it's own PPV?

[Teh_Showtime]

That was hilarious!

If Christian got as big a pop as everyone is saying then maybe he can get a push to main event. Maybe by Summer Slam he could be in the title picture.

Christian has been over. He got huge pops already... on ECW

[SeanMcFly]

Great. Another CenaMania...

[juggaloninjalee]

Christian has been over. He got huge pops already... on ECW

Then why does everyone say that he is nothing more than a midcarder? I don't claim to watch Smackdown much and I rarely watched the WWEcw so as much as I do like some of the guys on those shows I am out of the loop on anything involving those shows.

[Hive]

Watched Elimination Chamber. The two EC matches were entertaining enough, though I'm not quite seeing why people are going nuts about them. But eh, compared to the usual RAW/Smackdown stuff they were probably outstanding. The rest of the card was nothing special, could just as easily have been ordinary TV matches.

Mysterio and Morrison stood for most of the best entertainment on the show, with honourable mentions to Edge, CM Punk and Randy Orton. The Miz entertains me a lot as well, but being stuck in a stupid feud with a 100-year old fatso does nothing for him. NOTHING.

I think it's time the WWE either does something drastic to create new superstars (unlikely to happen) or merge their brands. There, I said it. They do not, in my opinion, have enough interesting wrestlers to run two brands anymore. And with The Undertaker, Triple H and Edge retiring soon (with Big Show probably not all that far away either), something needs to be done. And I don't see bland and boring people like McIntyre, Barrett, R-Truth or Sheamus filling those shoes. At least not the way WWE uses them.

Also, the results were all horribly predictable. Except maybe for the tag team match, which noone could have possibly cared for anyway. Who did NOT see Cena facing The Miz after The Rock's promo? Who thought Edge would not face Del Rio after the previous build? Who thought they would actually be dumb enough to ruin The Miz by having him lose? Who thought Kingston would go over-heavily pushed and Wrestlemania main eventing Del Rio?

[SeanMcFly]

By the way. Isn't it supposed to be a 'huge accomplishment' to win one elimination chamber, let alone two.

Not only has Cena won three, but he's won two of those IN A ROW.

[Teh_Showtime]

Then why does everyone say that he is nothing more than a midcarder?
He is over, but he is not important in the eyes of the higher ups.

No matter how over you are, you cant go from jobbing to Cody Rhodes, to main eventing Mania while being off TV for 6 months

[Candyman]

I know the internet is home of Christian-marks worldwide, but why on earth would he be added to the Smackdown Wrestlemania main event? Has Christian been a main eventer at any point since he's been on Smackdown? If the answer is no, why would he be boosted to the main event for Wrestlemania of all pay per views? I mean from a storyline perspective he's done nothing to earn a title shot: he wasn't a contender 5 months ago and he's spent the intervening time on the shelf. I mean throwing John Morrison into the Cena/Miz feud would make more sense, as at least he's had some impressive matches lately and has been booked as a top contender for the past 2 months. It wouldn't be a good idea either but it'd make more sense than adding Christian to the match. I just see it as a way of giving Del Rio somebody to beat up and gives Edge a tag team partner for the next few Smackdowns.

Exactly. ADR is going to beat up Christian once or twice on Smackdown to add something to his fued with Edge. Nothing more, nothing less. Long term, they might be looking at an Edge/Christian split and fued post WM. But I really can't see a midcarder being added to a World title match at WM of all places.

Then why does everyone say that he is nothing more than a midcarder? I don't claim to watch Smackdown much and I rarely watched the WWEcw so as much as I do like some of the guys on those shows I am out of the loop on anything involving those shows.

Because he is nothing more than a midcarder. He's just one of those guys that, for whatever reason, the internet loves. I can't explain it.

Watched Elimination Chamber. The two EC matches were entertaining enough, though I'm not quite seeing why people are going nuts about them. But eh, compared to the usual RAW/Smackdown stuff they were probably outstanding. The rest of the card was nothing special, could just as easily have been ordinary TV matches.

Mysterio and Morrison stood for most of the best entertainment on the show, with honourable mentions to Edge, CM Punk and Randy Orton. The Miz entertains me a lot as well, but being stuck in a stupid feud with a 100-year old fatso does nothing for him. NOTHING.

I think it's time the WWE either does something drastic to create new superstars (unlikely to happen) or merge their brands. There, I said it. They do not, in my opinion, have enough interesting wrestlers to run two brands anymore. And with The Undertaker, Triple H and Edge retiring soon (with Big Show probably not all that far away either), something needs to be done. And I don't see bland and boring people like McIntyre, Barrett, R-Truth or Sheamus filling those shoes. At least not the way WWE uses them.

Also, the results were all horribly predictable. Except maybe for the tag team match, which noone could have possibly cared for anyway. Who did NOT see Cena facing The Miz after The Rock's promo? Who thought Edge would not face Del Rio after the previous build? Who thought they would actually be dumb enough to ruin The Miz by having him lose? Who thought Kingston would go over-heavily pushed and Wrestlemania main eventing Del Rio?

The first EC match was one of the best EC matches ever, so that's why people are going nuts over that one...I thought the second one was pretty average, honestly.

While I couldn't disagree more about Miz gaining nothing from his "fued" with Lawler(it's generating heel heat, and any heel heat gained is a good thing), he's not in a fued with Lawler. He's in a fued with Cena, Lawler, and Cole. They couldn't get too carried away with the Cena/Miz fued because their match for Mania wasn't set yet. So they did the smart thing by teasing that fued while building the Lawler/Cole fued.

IMO, all those people retiring is one of the biggest reasons they SHOULDN'T merge the brands. The two brands give them more midcarders a chance to step up and replac the guys that are leaving.

As for predictability...can you clarify your stance? You say "horribly" predictable, but what else should they have done? Are you saying Kofi, Lawler, anybody but Edge and anybody but Cena should've won? Any one of those would have been unpredictable, but also monumentally stupid.

[1234]

He is over, but he is not important in the eyes of the higher ups.

No matter how over you are, you cant go from jobbing to Cody Rhodes, to main eventing Mania while being off TV for 6 months

History doesnt really matter when you have been gone for so long. Personally all I remember of Christian before the injury was him getting injured by ADR. Maybe I am alone on this one but I believe what he does now is more important then what he did before getting injured. While Christian doesnt get huge pops, neither does anyone else anymore and I would say Christian gets as much as a pop as either Edge or Del Rio.

Also can anyone really expect the World Title match to be the main event? I personally doubt it will even be the co-main event. Miz vs Cena will be the main, and I expect whatever the Undertaker does will be co-main. Also if the arguement is that Christian isnt as big a draw as Edge or Del Rio, do you really think adding Christian would turn fans away? I dont.

And is Alberto Del Rio really a solid main eventer. I wouldnt class him much higher on the card then Christian.

[Hive]

The first EC match was one of the best EC matches ever, so that's why people are going nuts over that one...

Really? Then the rest of them can't have been anything memorable.

While I couldn't disagree more about Miz gaining nothing from his "fued" with Lawler(it's generating heel heat, and any heel heat gained is a good thing), he's not in a fued with Lawler. He's in a fued with Cena, Lawler, and Cole. They couldn't get too carried away with the Cena/Miz fued because their match for Mania wasn't set yet. So they did the smart thing by teasing that fued while building the Lawler/Cole fued.

I still think they would gain more by letting him go over someone else than Lawler, who could be his grandfather. This whole Lawler business reeks of "we need to kill a few months time before we'll have Cena ready to feud with him".

IMO, all those people retiring is one of the biggest reasons they SHOULDN'T merge the brands. The two brands give them more midcarders a chance to step up and replac the guys that are leaving.

But do you really see that happening?

As for predictability...can you clarify your stance? You say "horribly" predictable, but what else should they have done? Are you saying Kofi, Lawler, anybody but Edge and anybody but Cena should've won? Any one of those would have been unpredictable, but also monumentally stupid.

No I'm not saying that other people should have won than those who did. Given the circumstances, these people really *had* to win... though Rey winning the EC match, making it either him vs. Del Rio or a 3-way with Edge could have worked as well. But I'm not complaining about the results per se, I'm complaining about WWE booking matches that have the results given in advance. That's fine for TV, but for PPV I expect some more unpredictability. I expect to be able to feel that the matches can go either way. But apart from the tag team match, which I didn't care for at all due to WWE having destroyed the tag division long time ago, no other match really could have ended in another way. Letting old man Lawler take the belt off Miz would not be as dumb as bringing in Arquette to win another world title, but it would be damn close. Letting Kingston win against heavily pushed Del Rio, who they claim will main event Wrestlemania (as someone else said, that just seems unlikely in reality) would make no sense at all. Having begun building an Edge vs. Del Rio encounter, added the possibilities from Del Rio taking out Christian several months ago, it would make little sense to let anyone but Edge come out of the match as champion... except maybe for Rey Mysterio, as previously mentioned. Cena winning was a clear given as well; although Morrisson vs. The Miz could be great, they are quite naturally not going to experiment with it for Wrestlemania. Orton vs. The Miz has been done several times lately, and Orton has been set up for a CM Punk match at Wrestlemania. R-Truth was clearly just filler, and Sheamus has neither the popularity nor right allignment to be an opponent for Miz. CM Punk is involved with Orton and lacks the right allignment as well. And if all that isn't enough, there's the fact that The Rock more or less spoiled that The Miz would face John Cena at Wrestlemania.

[lazorbeak]

Also can anyone really expect the World Title match to be the main event? I personally doubt it will even be the co-main event. Miz vs Cena will be the main, and I expect whatever the Undertaker does will be co-main. Also if the arguement is that Christian isnt as big a draw as Edge or Del Rio, do you really think adding Christian would turn fans away? I dont.

But if it adds nothing, why add it? It doesn't make any sense for Christian to just show up and receive a title shot. When HBK was put in a Mania Triple threat it's because he was in a major feud with the champion for months. And it doesn't matter that the show doesn't actually "main event," it's a main event match-up on WWE's B-show between two of their top names. Adding someone that is not one of their top names makes no sense.

And is Alberto Del Rio really a solid main eventer. I wouldnt class him much higher on the card then Christian.

He went over Rey Mysterio in a major feud that main evented frequently on Smackdown, then won the Royal Rumble. To answer your question in one word: YES.

[1234]

But if it adds nothing, why add it? It doesn't make any sense for Christian to just show up and receive a title shot. When HBK was put in a Mania Triple threat it's because he was in a major feud with the champion for months. And it doesn't matter that the show doesn't actually "main event," it's a main event match-up on WWE's B-show between two of their top names. Adding someone that is not one of their top names makes no sense.


In my opinion it adds that X-Factor into the match, that bit of unpredictibility. Even if you dont believe Christian will win (Which I believe he could) it then adds unpredictibility on the storylines going forward. If Edge beats Del Rio you could go down 2 routes: Del Rio complaining he didnt get a fair shot OR Christian saying Edge couldnt beat him. Del Rio wins: Edge could blame Christian for the loss OR Christian could blame Edge for him not winning OR they could both continue pursuing the title. Or Christian wins and has finally reached the top and either man can pursue him.

He went over Rey Mysterio in a major feud that main evented frequently on Smackdown, then won the Royal Rumble. To answer your question in one word: YES.

I still think based on crowd reaction he isnt there yet. It feels like a forced push at the minute, not someone comfortably sat at the top.

[LoNdOn]

I still think based on crowd reaction he isnt there yet. It feels like a forced push at the minute, not someone comfortably sat at the top.

I know what you mean. While he has had success, I feel that headlining Mania is a bit too soon. Any other PPV sure, but not Mania. Having said that I would much rather see him than the likes of Kane there so I can't really fault the logic.

[juggaloninjalee]

Del Rio seems over from everything I have seen. When he shows up on RAW he gets main event type of reactions. Edge vs Del Rio seems like a good logical main event match up.

[Teh_Showtime]

History doesnt really matter when you have been gone for so long.

So if Carlito came back, would it be acceptable to have him in the world title match at THE biggest show of the year?

[Mr Rager]

I do understand people saying that Christian was too far away from a title match at Wrestlemania before the injury, and at this moment it's true. But what is clear is that, after being injured at the hands of Del Rio six weeks ago, he is going to play a major part in this feud. Last night he kicked the Royal Rumble winner's ass, and caused plenty of excitement with his return; I don't see it as inconceivable that he might play a part in that title match.

Anybody think that there's any real surprises involved in this 02.21.11 campaign, or just a straightforward Undertaker return?

[Teh_Showtime]

I think it's Taker with/against someone else

[juggaloninjalee]

I think the videos are just an Undertaker return. Tonight though someone could come out and set up a match for Wrestlemania but the videos to me were just him.

[jwt13]

I think the videos are just an Undertaker return. Tonight though someone could come out and set up a match for Wrestlemania but the videos to me were just him.

It looked like someone was looking into the house Taker was in.

[Mr Rager]

While I've tried to not get drawn into farfetched theories concerning what the vignettes represent, it seems odd that The Undertaker would return like this rather than specifically targetting people who he might want to get retribution against (Kane/Nexus) like he has done in the past.

[Teh_Showtime]

Rapper Cena = :D

[Astil]

Yes please, can I have another.

[Teh_Showtime]

and apparently we are gonna see 2/21/11 at the top of the 10 o clock hour

thats usually where there is the semi-main event is so it's still keeping the same strategy ratings wise

[jwt13]

Rapper cena needs to be back for good

[StudioStu]

Very entertaining opening segment by Cena, I'm impressed!

[supershot]

Rapper Cena = :D

I knew it was coming after reading his twitter post. I was kinda hoping it meant full blown heel turn :p

JohnCena

Ps..grabbed a spare steel chain and lock off the elimination chamber just in case...gotta go now. Big peek a boo tournament b4 raw :)

Ohh well that was still great to see

[Teh_Showtime]

Very entertaining opening segment by Cena, I'm impressed!

He has to raise his game when up against the best man to EVER touch a mic.

[angeldelayette]

Rapper Cena = :D

Seconded!

[Teh_Showtime]

Morrison vs Punk is always a good watch.

They had the best feud in the WWE when they were on ECW. Fantastic chemistry and psychology between these two guys.

[Astil]

Awesome promo
Great match
Awesome promo

Pretty great first 1/2 hour of RAW.

EDIT: Woah, Kofi got a nice pop.

[angeldelayette]

Probably a stupid question but why does Smackdown wrestler Alberto Del Rio keep showing up on Raw?

[Teh_Showtime]

Probably a stupid question but why does Smackdown wrestler Alberto Del Rio keep showing up on Raw?

force feeding so that he can get over

[Zeel1]

Probably a stupid question but why does Smackdown wrestler Alberto Del Rio keep showing up on Raw?

Not sure, I always thought RR winners went back to their own brand for good once they made their choice, but I guess they hope the extra exposure will make him seem more credible.

Kinda surprised that they're continuing the Kingston/Del Rio feud, I sort of thought that was just something they did to give Del Rio a spot on the EC PPV...

[Astil]

Damn. Everyone is stepping there game up.

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

Thunderous noise for The Miz's sucking-ness. Pretty funny promo until the stupid GM noise started up.

[Zeel1]

"Hey, The Rock was in a tag team before... so you be in a tag match!"

Perfect logic.

[Astil]

"Hey, The Rock was in a tag team before... so you be in a tag match!"

Perfect logic.

They're just trying to say The Rock as much as possible. :p

[supershot]

I was hoping i wasnt the only one to notice that lol

[Teh_Showtime]

I thought they were gonna bring back Foley or something :rolleyes:

0 point in mentioning it

[Mr Rager]

It would have made a tiny bit of sense if Cole had mentioned The Rock and Mankind having a history of being fierce rivals when the team was formed.

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

I had no idea The Rock was in a tag team at any time in his career!!! What an earth-shattering revelation!

/sarcasm

So...I haven't watched a Divas match in a while...but do they normally not have entrances for them? Or are we just skipping them tonight so we can get to the 2.21.11 thing on time?

[Teh_Showtime]

Almost everyone is liable to get their entrance skipped.

We've had R-Truth and Daniel Bryan get shafted this month already.

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

Almost everyone is liable to get their entrance skipped.

We've had R-Truth and Daniel Bryan get shafted this month already.
I see. Trying to get back into WWE, so forgive me for my sometimes ridiculous questions.

[Teh_Showtime]

anybody else notice Taker's cross when they showed the overhead view?

[Linsolv]

DARN IT. 2-21-11: I'm bored by it now.

[Astil]

DARN IT. 2-21-11: I'm bored by it now.

Im not. Serious storyline possibilities here.

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

Taker is just standing there...interesting. Maybe he's silently squealing like the fans there about HHH's return.

[Teh_Showtime]

ENORMOUS pop from the crowd for HHH, people jumping up and down.

[StudioStu]

Maybe it's because I haven't seen him in a long time, but does anyone else think Trips looks bigger?

[jwt13]

So over the last two months we have seen the return of Rock,Trish,Nash,Booker,HHH, and taker

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

Maybe it's because I haven't seen him in a long time, but does anyone else think Trips looks bigger?
Just like The Rock looked bigger last week in his return.


Gotta love dialogue-less angles.

[Linsolv]

Well, you see, I'm bored by Triple H. I like his ring music, but it no longer holds the sparkle it once did for me. I know I'm a little late to the party around here, having only started watching 3-4 years ago, but I kinda think of HHH as the less interesting little brother of HBK in a sense. He's an asset, but not someone I mark for.

[StudioStu]

Just like The Rock looked bigger last week in his return.


Gotta love dialogue-less angles.

I know how anticlimactic was that?

[Astil]

Even though they said nothing that angle said everything about the feud.

great RAW so far. May have to start watching regularly again.

[Teh_Showtime]

Gotta love dialogue-less angles.

not when it should explain something :confused:

Sure we get the point of a WM match, but what did the vids have to do with it

[Linsolv]

Even though they said nothing that angle said everything about the feud.

great RAW so far. May have to start watching regularly again.

So... nothing's gonna happen?

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

Did Trips just do the chop towards Taker?

I thought necrophilia wouldn't work in the TV-PG era.

[Astil]

Well, you see, I'm bored by Triple H. I like his ring music, but it no longer holds the sparkle it once did for me. I know I'm a little late to the party around here, having only started watching 3-4 years ago, but I kinda think of HHH as the less interesting little brother of HBK in a sense. He's an asset, but not someone I mark for.

Then you don't like the little brother getting revenge for big brother?

Also I think HHH is better at promos and such, and HBK is better at the matches. I don't think one is 'more interesting' than the other. That's just my opinion though. :)

[jbergey_2005]

So... nothing's gonna happen?

Did anything really need to be said? The acting alone said what needed to be said for now. We have 6 weeks of talking and hype.

[Linsolv]

Then you don't like the little brother getting revenge for big brother?

Also I think HHH is better at promos and such, and HBK is better at the matches. I don't think one is 'more interesting' than the other. That's just my opinion though. :)

Of course, opinions being what they are.

But no, not really. I viewed HBK's retirement as almost cathartic. I miss him being around, same as I miss Jericho, but I understood it to be the case that he was tired and wanted to leave. So he got what he wanted and I don't think that Taker needs to be revenged. He didn't cheat or anything. He won fair and square.

[Teh_Showtime]

Well, you see, I'm bored by Triple H. I like his ring music, but it no longer holds the sparkle it once did for me. I know I'm a little late to the party around here, having only started watching 3-4 years ago, but I kinda think of HHH as the less interesting little brother of HBK in a sense. He's an asset, but not someone I mark for.
well 4 years ago would put you at the DX/Spirit Squad time, so it's understandable.

Most of his best work came from 98-02 when HBK was retired. And then they had a great feud when he came back.

ALTHOUGH 2002 HHH isn't God like most people think, he was still pretty good

[Teh_Showtime]

Did Trips just do the chop towards Taker?

I thought necrophilia wouldn't work in the TV-PG era.

Im thinking about running an angle like that in TEW to be honest

[Astil]

Of course, opinions being what they are.

But no, not really. I viewed HBK's retirement as almost cathartic. I miss him being around, same as I miss Jericho, but I understood it to be the case that he was tired and wanted to leave. So he got what he wanted and I don't think that Taker needs to be revenged. He didn't cheat or anything. He won fair and square.

Fair point.

I wonder if they're going to make HHH at least Heelish if not full on heel. That would give the feud true legs. Could blame Taker for all the bad stuff that happened to him in 2010.

(Shawn wasnt there to watch my back and I got injured, ect.)

[Astil]

Why does Mark Henry still use the W S M on his back when MVP has been gone for a while?

:mad:

Really? Result? Really?

[supershot]

I agree i think hbk got what he wanted lost fair and square and retired. Thats what i got out of the storyline. They could make this about hhh wanting to 1 up hbk and so something he nor anyone else could do.

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

Still can't get over how they tried to tie in The Rock to tonight's main event...silly annoying GM.

[Linsolv]

I will agree, though. There is potential for a relatively interesting story where Trips is portrayed as selfishly being mad about HBK leaving and blaming Taker for it, as long as Trips played the heel in it.

[Teh_Showtime]

Still can't get over how they tried to tie in The Rock to tonight's main event...silly annoying GM.

not as bad as Sheamus becoming Mark Henry's personal jobber

[Prophet]

Wow ... I wish I was a fly on the wall for that talk. "Hey Sheamus, we're gonna make you KotR, and you're gonna get a shiny crown, and a big stick, and a flowy green cape to come to the ring with, so you can job out to Mark frakkin' Henry!"

[Teh_Showtime]

WOW it sounded like that came out wrong for Sheamus :p

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

So Tough Enough is back...so I figure NXT is dead?

[Astil]

This feud. Yes.

EDIT: This Hall of Fame. No.

[jbergey_2005]

I agree i think hbk got what he wanted lost fair and square and retired. Thats what i got out of the storyline. They could make this about hhh wanting to 1 up hbk and so something he nor anyone else could do.

I will agree, though. There is potential for a relatively interesting story where Trips is portrayed as selfishly being mad about HBK leaving and blaming Taker for it, as long as Trips played the heel in it.

Problem is HHH is retiring and I dont see him wanting to go out a heel.

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

THE HACKSAW IS GONNA BE IN THE HALL OF FAME!!!

H-ohhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

Ahem.

[jbergey_2005]

not as bad as Sheamus becoming Mark Henry's personal jobber

This is why they are having a hard time building superstars. Sheamus comes out and beats Cena in his first PPV I believe and now a little over a year later is jobbing out to a person that has been jobbing for the better part of 15 years.

[angeldelayette]

YAY for Hacksaw Jim Duggan. I enjoyed him back in the day and I'm glad he's in the Hall of Fame.

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

Congrats to Michael Cole for correctly rattling off a list of people he is worse than.

[Linsolv]

Problem is HHH is retiring and I dont see him wanting to go out a heel.

But, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, I honestly don't see the basis of the feud. What did Taker do wrong?

[supershot]

Problem is HHH is retiring and I dont see him wanting to go out a heel.

True and imo face vs face is very hard to build good heat for. Lets cross are fingers!

[jbergey_2005]

But, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, I honestly don't see the basis of the feud. What did Taker do wrong?

I am sure they will try to turn it into some revenge angle on HBK being forced to retire but who knows. Most of their feuds dont make a whole lot of sense:)

[Linsolv]

Like... I guess they could go the easy route and have Undertaker insult Shawn's manhood or something. Except that Trips already called him out. Oops.

On the other hand, Cole is heeling it right up. I'm impressed.

EDIT: Welp, there goes the farm.

Cole vs. Lawler,
Trips vs. Taker...

[Teh_Showtime]

face vs face is very hard to build good heat for.

The first HBK/Taker and HBK/Flair did it pretty good

[Mr Rager]

My main problem with this is that Sheamus put Triple H on the sidelines for such a long time, and Triple H has just returned without seeking retribution. Undertaker's feud with Kane ended abruptly when Nexus helped to bury him alive, yet The Undertaker won't be getting retribution on either of them at the moment. My first impression is that this just seems too random.

[supershot]

The first HBK/Taker and HBK/Flair did it pretty good

I agree but the thing is they are the same storyline but with different workers. Thats the only route you can really go so that both workers have fans emotionally invested in them. Idk just my 2 cents.

[Teh_Showtime]

I figured that since Corre was 95% of the Nexus who took out Taker, that their being at Raw would lead to something.

But the 3MR is something

[Teh_Showtime]

Didnt we see this with the Michaels/Cena feud going into WM23

*facepalm*

[Astil]

Mmm, good heel stable action.

Don't tell 'em who out of the Corre is invoking the rematch clause, just that the Corre is revoking the rematch clause.

Mmmmhmmm...Barrett and Jackson as champs.

[Astil]

The Miz = Babyface in Peril?

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

When did the tag belts start looking like that?

And they had to seemingly unite Cena and The Miz, since The Rock called both of them out like that.

[TheLeviticalLawKid3]

I stand corrected. What a finish.

[Teh_Showtime]

I would have preferred 1 long match that Corre won, but oh well.

Also liked Cena's kinda mocking the people's elbow (which the announcers didnt catch)

[Astil]

Pretty good RAW, all told. Ill have to watch more often.

[ampulator]

The first HBK/Taker and HBK/Flair did it pretty good
Oh come on, you can do better than THAT. ;) Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior, or Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock.

[Moe Hunter]

Has Christian been a main eventer at any point since he's been on Smackdown? If the answer is no, why would he be boosted to the main event for Wrestlemania of all pay per views?

Edge & Christian is a WAY bigger draw than Del Rio, no matter how much they've been trying to push him everywhere.

Stone Cold, Booker T & Trish on TE
The Rock, Triple H and Undertaker on Raw

Do you see the pattern? WWE is seeing the need for Attitude Era stars in order to really get the buyrates going. Del Rio vs Edge and Cena vs Miz simply don't have enough substance to do it by themselves.

[ampulator]

Edge & Christian is a WAY bigger draw than Del Rio, no matter how much they've been trying to push him everywhere.

Stone Cold, Booker T & Trish on TE
The Rock, Triple H and Undertaker on Raw

Do you see the pattern? WWE is seeing the need for Attitude Era stars in order to really get the buyrates going. Del Rio vs Edge and Cena vs Miz simply don't have enough substance to do it by themselves.
Wow, even I didn't see that...you are correct, they ARE depending on past stars right now...

Why is the WWE so desperate now? The situation has been like this for years...

[Teh_Showtime]

E&C enver main evented in the attitude era though.

sure they had great matches, but they are hardly stars of the era in that sense

[jbergey_2005]

Wow, even I didn't see that...you are correct, they ARE depending on past stars right now...

Why is the WWE so desperate now? The situation has been like this for years...

I dont think it has ever been quite this bad though. Plus they always bring out the big guns for Wrestlemania.

[ampulator]

I dont think it has ever been quite this bad though. Plus they always bring out the big guns for Wrestlemania.
What do you mean "this bad"? Heck, they should have done this for LAST Wrestlemania. The situation doesn't change that fast within a year. This is a culmination of what's been happening ever seen WCW died. But this year isn't that different from last year.

That being said, you ARE correct about the "big guns" for Wrestlemania, but this is rather desperate for them. It looks as if they are admitting that banking on mostly John Cena isn't enough anymore (and that's just odd to me).

[Teh_Showtime]

its more obvious this year though because look at the 3 marquee matches from last year.

Cena vs Batista

HBK vs Taker

Edge vs Jericho

only 3 of them are still wrestling, and the possible replacements have since stalled through retarded booking. (Sheamus, Morrison, Swagger, etc)

[jbergey_2005]

What do you mean "this bad"? Heck, they should have done this for LAST Wrestlemania. The situation doesn't change that fast within a year. This is a culmination of what's been happening ever seen WCW died. But this year isn't that different from last year.

That being said, you ARE correct about the "big buns" for Wrestlemania, but this is rather desperate for them. It looks as if they are admitting that banking on mostly John Cena isn't enough anymore (and that's just odd to me).

Well I mean they have lost Ric Flair, HBK, Benoit, Booker T(athough now he is back as an announcer), JBL, Batista, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Jericho and some others over the past 4-5 years in which it eventually gets to the point they have just lost too much to overcome. This next 2-3 years for the WWE sort of reminds me of the time after Hogan left and before the attitude era. Basically, not really sure how they want to move forward and filling gaps until they figure it out.

[ampulator]

its more obvious this year though because look at the 3 marquee matches from last year.

Cena vs Batista

HBK vs Taker

Edge vs Jericho

only 3 of them are still wrestling, and the possible replacements have since stalled through retarded booking. (Sheamus, Morrison, Swagger, etc)
"Retarded booking" is the norm, not the exception. So, even if some of their bigger stars are gone, they are going to survive. If it's about the PPV's and the lack of money, it's because of...

1. There are too many PPVs these days.
2. There are too many gimmick PPVs these days.
3. There are too many inconsequential PPVs these days.
4. PPV's are no longer a popular as it once was.
5. Their PPVs are more expensive these days.

Combine all that, and OF COURSE their PPV numbers are going down. Some are inevitable (PPV's no longer as popular), some they can control to an extent (the price of a PPV, the amount of PPVs) and others, are entirely their fault (inconsequential PPVs, and Gimmicky PPVs). I think the last one particularly is a sticking point with me... seriously, do we NEED a HIAC PPV? It might boost numbers short term, but the long term, this shoots themselves in the foot.

[Teh_Showtime]

what do PPV numbers have to do with the lack of stars?

Unless indirectly because they want to keep their sure things to make sure they can keep PPV buys

[ampulator]

what do PPV numbers have to do with the lack of stars?

Unless indirectly because they want to keep their sure things to make sure they can keep PPV buys
I don't think they have a lack of stars. What they DO lack, though, is that BIG star. You know, the BIG one, ala Hulk Hogan, the Rock, or Steve Austin. They tried to make Cena this year, but they shot themselves in the foot with him.

[jbergey_2005]

I don't think they have a lack of stars. What they DO lack, though, is that BIG star. You know, the BIG one, ala Hulk Hogan, the Rock, or Steve Austin. They tried to make Cena this year, but they shot themselves in the foot with him.

I dont see Cena as being the problem. Its that they lack Main Event depth. You can only have Cena vs Orton so many times before people get sick of it.

The Rock and Austin had each other along with Undertaker, HBK, Vince McMahon, Mankind, Big Show, HHH and a few other guys they could headline with.

[ampulator]

I dont see Cena as being the problem. Its that they lack Main Event depth. You can only have Cena vs Orton so many times before people get sick of it.
I never said he was the problem.... he certrainly IS the symptom, though. As for Main Event depth, you are correct, but that's the WWE's own fault. They have tons of stars, but none of which are Main Event caliber because of misbooking.

[jbergey_2005]

I never said he was the problem.... he certrainly IS the symptom, though. As for Main Event depth, you are correct, but that's the WWE's own fault. They have tons of stars, but none of which are Main Event caliber because of misbooking.

I agree. The gap is huge between the midcard and the Main Event right now and a huge part of that is their own booking issues. Stables are a great way around that but apparently the big stables are a thing of the past. It was nice to see it brought back this year with NEXUS and they were instantly bumped up a few spots higher on the card because of it.

You give Miz a stable with Mark Henry and Big Show in it and he would be a Main Event threat instead of a "weak" champion.

[ampulator]

I agree. The gap is huge between the midcard and the Main Event right now and a huge part of that is their own booking issues. Stables are a great way around that but apparently the big stables are a thing of the past. It was nice to see it brought back this year with NEXUS and they were instantly bumped up a few spots higher on the card because of it.
There's another problem... I don't blame the WWE for this, but ever since regional promotions have died, there has been places for workers to develop into their own. Guys like Ted Dibiase and Jake Roberts don't exist automatically... they work in the minors, honing their craft, exposing themselves to different styles, promotions, people, and audiences.

The WWE's insistence on having "home-grown" talent hurts them, and they've probably come to recgonize that. Hogan had his start outside the WWE. He didn't become Hogan without working his way around.

[jbergey_2005]

There's another problem... I don't blame the WWE for this, but ever since regional promotions have died, there has been places for workers to develop into their own. Guys like Ted Dibiase and Jake Roberts don't exist automatically... they work in the minors, honing their craft, exposing themselves to different styles, promotions, people, and audiences.

The WWE's insistence on having "home-grown" talent hurts them, and they've probably come to recgonize that. Hogan had his start outside the WWE. He didn't become Hogan without working his way around.

Indeed! I wonder if the next step for the WWE isnt bringing back the territory system as sort of their minor league umbrella to help create this sort development that was so successful at one time.

Its gotta be a pain in the ass trying to create stars out of people that few have ever heard of that doesnt do remarkable things with the mic. Part of their current programming could be going around their different minor league affiliates and have us care about who the future big stars are.

I remember when storylines would last for 8-12 months with them only have 1-3 matches against each other(not counting house shows). The PPVs were simply must watch TV. The TV shows were for making the attractions look strong and moving along storylines. Im not sure why they ever got away from that. All we get now is recycled feuds and recycled storylines.

I guess Id rather watch star vs jobber than star vs star with cheap endings the majority of the time. Its hard to make your midcard look strong when they are constantly fed to your main eventers on live TV.

In 1987 you wouldnt see the British Bulldogs getting fed to King Kong Bundy/Big John Studd just to make them look better so the Bulldogs were interesting and were thought of as a great tag team. I dont understand why the WWE today insists on treating their tag champs as jobbers.

You would hardly see anyone midcard or above lose. It made them all appear strong. Im not sure if jobber matches would still work but dI like it better than 1/2 the roster in PPVs seemingly appearing weak.

Koko B Ware was pretty much a PPV jobber in the late 80s however he won a lot of matches on TV so it made it appear he was a threat to whomever he was facing in the PPV.

Sorry for the rambling. I just miss the booking during the Golden Era. The matches werent that great(5-10min) but the outcomes were usually up in the air and they had a sense of purpose.

[evileddie10]

Did anyone else mark out for John Cena rapping again....Or was it just me?
I will say that the "PG-ness" of WWE seems to be wearing off, Several "riskque" lines and references in the Cena rap, Rock swearing...I dont know, maybe its just me, but I think they are moving away slightly from the "PG-era" or at least pushing it to its limits...

[1234]

So if Carlito came back, would it be acceptable to have him in the world title match at THE biggest show of the year?

Ok, maybe poor choice of words by me.

In Christians case it doesnt matter. I have been talking to a friend about this (not an internet wrestling fan, just an average WWE viewer) and like me all he remembers about Christian's run on Smackdown (what he was doing before he took time off for the injury) is that he got injured.

Maybe internet wrestling fans are different but people I know that just watch casually dont seem to care if Christian was jobbing to Rhodes, because the that is now irrelevant.

Adding Christian would make things more exciting because:
A) He got injured by ADR. He needs revenge. (And its not like Christian is unpopular and would drag the match down)
B) The history of E&C. I think everyone I have spoken to (Internet & Casual fans) want to see Edge vs Christian. And this could be a prelude to it.

And I suppose the main reason I want it is something fresh & entertaining at the top. We need more variety at the top of the card and Christian would give that, and undoubtably has the skills to be at the top. And maybe my friends and I are part of the minority but I really dont see the downside to adding Christian.

[juggaloninjalee]

The Undertaker video was for that? I was really dissappointed. The show overall was a big let down for me. I was really excited going into that show and then came out of it feeling let down. Oh well...

[Linsolv]

You would hardly see anyone midcard or above lose. It made them all appear strong. Im not sure if jobber matches would still work but dI like it better than 1/2 the roster in PPVs seemingly appearing weak.

Yes, they still work today. That's exactly what they did with Sheamus. He was out there putting jobbers in the hospital every night. Lo and behold, everyone thought he was a major league butt-kicker!

Well, except us with the IWC. We all seemed to be like "Meh, he's only taking out jobbers." Ironic in a way.

[ampulator]

Yes, they still work today. That's exactly what they did with Sheamus. He was out there putting jobbers in the hospital every night. Lo and behold, everyone thought he was a major league butt-kicker!

Well, except us with the IWC. We all seemed to be like "Meh, he's only taking out jobbers." Ironic in a way.
I don't know. He lost to Mark Henry last night, of all people.

[PeterHilton]

The probelme with the Sheamus push WAS that he only took out jobbers.

If he'd beaten up a bunch of nobodies, and then followed that upby cleanly pinning ANYONE in the main event scene, he'd have been cemented as a legit top of the card guy.

But he got a bunch of fluke wins over Cena, cheated over and over (even though he was supposed to be a monster heel) , and then repeated that process against Orton.

Other than Trips, he didn't get a clean win over an established main eventer, then struggled through some midcard feud with Morrison.

And now that Trips is back, with no mention of the fact that Sheamus was the one who put him out, his push of last year is pretty muh pointless.

Now...that is just the write up for Sheamus...but amp is right: the reason the WWE is struggling with their main event is because they haven't really established any main event level stars since Hardy/Punk (and even Punk has been treated a little iffy since then).

And...(and this is one I tend to harp on) their talent evaluation and development hasn't worked out the way they hoped.

[The Two]

I won't deny I enjoyed Cena's opening promo, and it really made me want to see Rock beat the living hell out of him, but that just makes it worse knowing there's no chance Rock will wrestle a match.

During HHH's entrance and posing it did occur to me, "Hey, it would be cool if they managed this without a single word," but after seeing it happen I now wish something had been said. The biggest problem is that both have just returned from a long absence, and while I get the match has been made, you got no indication of why it's going to happen. Why does Hunter want to face Taker?

Just watching Taker's reaction when Hunter started staring at the Mania logo, it felt like he was thinking about The Streak. He looks at the Mania logo, looks at Hunter, "You want me at Mania?", smirks, shakes his head, "No, you're not worth it." Taker starts to walk away, the crowd boos, he stops, thinks about it, turns back to HHH, "Fine, but I'm gonna kill you", gives the cutthroat gesture.

You don't know whether Hunter just wants a crack at breaking The Streak, whether he wants a rematch for WM17, whether he's looking to avenge HBK, or if it's something else entirely. You also don't know whether one or the other will take up a heelish position or if it's face vs face.

I know we've got 6 weeks, and that can all be drawn out over time, but it would have been nice at the start of the feud to have some idea of the motivation behind it.

That said, I'm still psyched about the match, so I'm not gonna complain. I'm also way happier than I should be about seeing Lawler beating the hell out of Cole.

The double tag title change was entirely pointless, there's no reason Miz couldn't have laid out Cena for the first fall. To be honest, I'm just relieved we're not gonna be forced to suffer through the "Oh no! The World Title opponents are Tag Champs! How ever will they co-exist as partners while feuding over the World Title?" Feud... again.

[eayragt]

And regarding the Tag Team titles, there's just no way it's going to just be Corre vs Nexus. No-one would care. You've got to throw in at least Santino and Koslov.

Although I wasn convinced that 'Taker vs 'H wasn't going to happen, so what do I know?

[PeterHilton]

And regarding the Tag Team titles, there's just no way it's going to just be Corre vs Nexus. No-one would care. You've got to throw in at least Santino and Koslov.

Although I wasn convinced that 'Taker vs 'H wasn't going to happen, so what do I know?

IIRC last year the titles were defended in by ShowMiz against RTruth and Morrison in a short, thrown together at the last second, opening match that literally did nothing for anyone involved.

"No one would care" isn't relly a reason for that match not to happen

[eayragt]

IIRC last year the titles were defended in by ShowMiz against RTruth and Morrison in a short, thrown together at the last second, opening match that literally did nothing for anyone involved.

"No one would care" isn't relly a reason for that match not to happen

Yeah, but not only would no-one care but it would be a heel / heel match. At WrestleMania. You can get away with face / face when you put two Main Eventers against one another some of the time - try heel / heel with two midcard teams... not even WWE are that stupid, are they?

[PeterHilton]

Yeah, but not only would no-one care but it would be a heel / heel match. At WrestleMania. You can get away with face / face when you put two Main Eventers against one another some of the time - try heel / heel with two midcard teams... not even WWE are that stupid, are they?

Depends on the build. I think quite a few fans dug the original Nexus group in a snarky "this is a young talented heel stable" kind of way and Gabriel/Slater w/Barrett in their corner would get quite a few supporters in a match against whatever 'new' members of Nexus would be thrown out there.

I really don't see it as being a bad possibility and at least a match wrapped around "Nexus bragging rights" would have some type of storyline.

[Jaysin]

Feel the BANG! (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/616307-wwe-hall-of-fame-diamond-dallas-page-should-be-inducted-this-year)

I've never been to that site before, but DDP posted it on his facebook page. I for one would LOVE to see him get into the Hall of Fame. He's always been in my top 10 favorites list and he was one of WCW's biggest stars without being a former star in WWE(Sting, Booker T, and Goldberg are the other 3 really).

[Teh_Showtime]

Bleacher is a great site, that has lots of good reads.

[ampulator]

The probelme with the Sheamus push WAS that he only took out jobbers.

If he'd beaten up a bunch of nobodies, and then followed that upby cleanly pinning ANYONE in the main event scene, he'd have been cemented as a legit top of the card guy.

But he got a bunch of fluke wins over Cena, cheated over and over (even though he was supposed to be a monster heel) , and then repeated that process against Orton.

Other than Trips, he didn't get a clean win over an established main eventer, then struggled through some midcard feud with Morrison.

And now that Trips is back, with no mention of the fact that Sheamus was the one who put him out, his push of last year is pretty muh pointless.


That's pretty much it.


Now...that is just the write up for Sheamus...but amp is right: the reason the WWE is struggling with their main event is because they haven't really established any main event level stars since Hardy/Punk (and even Punk has been treated a little iffy since then).

And...(and this is one I tend to harp on) their talent evaluation and development hasn't worked out the way they hoped.
Now, I will say ONE positive thing about WWE's development... they have managed to have guys, at the very least, to be safe and understanding the basics in the ring. I have no issue with that.

What I do have an issue with, though, is these guys aren't very good at anything else. Yes, I know WWE isn't about ring-work, but even by their own standards, some of the guys they have are rather thin by modern standards when it comes to having more ring work. It's not the WWE 80's anymore.

And at the very least, if they don't have ring, their selling and psychology (not all cases) are subpar. Before anyone says there is no such thing as "psychology", watch a Jake Roberts vs. Ted Dibiase match, and then watch a Ted Dibiase Jr. match against John Morrision. Jake Roberts vs. Ted Dibiase is a much better match.

Both Ted Jr. and Morrison know more moves than Dibiase and Roberts do, so ringwork isn't the issue here. One may cite experience, but both Ted Jr. and Morrison have been wrestling for a while, so it's not a good excuse. The difference in the match is... psychology. Plain and simple.

[Teh_Showtime]

Morrison has a fairly good amount of psychology if I say so myself.

All while being a product of tough enough.

[PeterHilton]

That's pretty much it.


Now, I will say ONE positive thing about WWE's development... they have managed to have guys, at the very least, to be safe and understanding the basics in the ring. I have no issue with that.

What I do have an issue with, though, is these guys aren't very good at anything else. Yes, I know WWE isn't about ring-work, but even by their own standards, some of the guys they have are rather thin by modern standards when it comes to having more ring work. It's WWE 80's anymore.

And at the very least, if they don't have ring, their selling and psychology (not all cases) are subpar. Before anyone says there is no such thing as "psychology", watch a Jake Roberts vs. Ted Dibiase match, and then watch a Ted Dibiase Jr. match against John Morrision. Jake Roberts vs. Ted Dibiase is a much better match.

Both Ted Jr. and Morrison know more moves than Dibiase and Roberts do, so ringwork isn't the issue here. One may cite experience, but both Ted Jr. and Morrison have been wrestling for a while, so it's not a good excuse. The difference in the match is... psychology. Plain and simple.

I agree and disagree on parts of this, but I side with the direction you're coming from

Over-all, I just think the talent process has eliminated alot of individuality and true originality.

It's a cookie cutter structure that creates cookie cutter workers.

[Teh_Showtime]

I wouldn't say cookie cutter as much as less exposure to other styles.

That was why it was different. The crowds in Texas, and the crowds in Philly are what could mold wrestlers.

Now everyone it's all the same style everyone coming up goes through

[ampulator]

Morrison has a fairly good amount of psychology if I say so myself.

All while being a product of tough enough.
Actually, he's decent by today's standards... but it's still nowhere Ted Dibiase Sr's, or Jake Roberts. To be fair,

I agree and disagree on parts of this, but I side with the direction you're coming from

Over-all, I just think the talent process has eliminated alot of individuality and true originality.

It's a cookie cutter structure that creates cookie cutter workers.

I wouldn't say cookie cutter as much as less exposure to other styles.

That was why it was different. The crowds in Texas, and the crowds in Philly are what could mold wrestlers.

Now everyone it's all the same style everyone coming up goes through

I think it's both. A lack of exposure and a cookie cutter style... a lack of exposure to different styles leads to the cookie cutter style, which leads to everyone having the same style.

[Teh_Showtime]

Actually, he's decent by today's standards... but it's still nowhere Ted Dibiase Sr's, or Jake Roberts. To be fair,

That would be an unfair comparison. They are by far two of the best EVER. You can't compare Morrison to those likes from a psychology standpoint

[ampulator]

That would be an unfair comparison. They are by far two of the best EVER. You can't compare Morrison to those likes from a psychology standpoint
It is. But that only illustrates my point further. There is no one today with that level. Not even one. Undertaker comes pretty close, but he's retiring soon.

there is NO fair comparison, simply because there IS no one at that level today.

[PeterHilton]

I wouldn't say cookie cutter as much as less exposure to other styles.

That was why it was different. The crowds in Texas, and the crowds in Philly are what could mold wrestlers.

Now everyone it's all the same style everyone coming up goes through

How is that definition different than 'cookie cutter'? :p

[Teh_Showtime]

because stone cold said so?

[Hive]

I understand why the WWE would want a high profile match like Triple H vs. The Undertaker, career vs. streak... and it does make sense in regards to Triple H seeking revenge for Shawn Michaels. Maybe throw in Michaels as special referee, and it would be a very interesting setup.

However... it makes little storyline sense that neither Triple H nor The Undertaker wants to gun for the guys who took them out of action long time ago in the first place, before anything else. A king vs. king Triple H vs. Sheamus match would have been obvious, and could have gotten amble heat if not for the illogical jobbing of Sheamus (while not exactly one of the greatest performers of all time, I could see Sheamus being much more than he currently is). And The Undertaker should want revenge against either Barret or at the very least Kane, perhaps even both in a triple threat match, as it could be argued that Barrett is not (yet) a worthy Wrestlemania opponent for Undertaker.

I think both Sheamus and Barrett could get much needed rubs from this, and if Triple H is as high on Sheamus as rumours say, he could let him end his carreer.

But eh... maybe it will all make sense in the end.

[Linsolv]

I still don't see it. Michaels made a bet and lost it, fair and square. Where's the revenge?

Incidentally, I'd rather see a Barrett/Taker match, if only because I like the **** out of Barrett. I like his nose. I like his voice. I like his hair. He cuts a good figure and to an extent I'm happy with just that. As far as his in-ring work, eh. Everyone seems to be kinda the same these days. They seemed more or less the same back in the day, from what I've seen, so I'm not trying to be insulting. It's always been, to me, that your in-ring work was an extension of your persona, and I like Barrett as a character.

[PeterHilton]

I think both Sheamus and Barrett could get much needed rubs from this, and if Triple H is as high on Sheamus as rumours say, he could let him end his carreer.

But eh... maybe it will all make sense in the end.

Probably not.

Your idea makes sense and would be a logical extension of the current and past storylines. Unfortunately it would also leave two of the company's biggest names facing off against two realitively unknown commodities on the biggest show of the year.

So throw out storyline consideration; this is a grab for ratings and buy rates and nothing more.

[Linsolv]

But Peter, I mean... the thing is... like... lazy storyline booking has been what we've been complaining about for the past few pages with Sheamus' push so far. Why should we criticize it with creating new stars, but not with selling PPVs? I am sick of people (WWE staff writers included) looking at the nose in front of their face instead of the road ahead.

[Fantabulous]

I still don't see it. Michaels made a bet and lost it, fair and square. Where's the revenge?


Because when it's your best friend reason and/or logic sometimes goes out the window.

[ampulator]

I understand why the WWE would want a high profile match like Triple H vs. The Undertaker, career vs. streak... and it does make sense in regards to Triple H seeking revenge for Shawn Michaels. Maybe throw in Michaels as special referee, and it would be a very interesting setup.

However... it makes little storyline sense that neither Triple H nor The Undertaker wants to gun for the guys who took them out of action long time ago in the first place, before anything else. A king vs. king Triple H vs. Sheamus match would have been obvious, and could have gotten amble heat if not for the illogical jobbing of Sheamus (while not exactly one of the greatest performers of all time, I could see Sheamus being much more than he currently is). And The Undertaker should want revenge against either Barret or at the very least Kane, perhaps even both in a triple threat match, as it could be argued that Barrett is not (yet) a worthy Wrestlemania opponent for Undertaker.

I think both Sheamus and Barrett could get much needed rubs from this, and if Triple H is as high on Sheamus as rumours say, he could let him end his carreer.

But eh... maybe it will all make sense in the end.
There is one very simple answer for this.

Neither Barrett nor Sheamus has panned out on how they hoped they will pan out.

Long Answer: Barrett is clearly not ready in the ring, even though e has good mic skills and charisma, and Sheamus is coming along nicely along the mic, but the fans just don't seem to care about him. Well, I shouldn't say that... he's more misbooked than anything.

[PeterHilton]

But Peter, I mean... the thing is... like... lazy storyline booking has been what we've been complaining about for the past few pages with Sheamus' push so far. Why should we criticize it with creating new stars, but not with selling PPVs? I am sick of people (WWE staff writers included) looking at the nose in front of their face instead of the road ahead.

Feel free to criticize. I think it's totally fair.

And for all we know plans leading into tis years WM was for Triple H to face Sheamus in a bloody brawl and for Taker to make Barrett look like a million bucks ala Randy Orton a few years back.

But the WWE is responding to a string of bad financial reports, they've brought back some Attitude Era stars to help boost viewers, and WM is the one PPV that absolutely NEEDS to be a giant success and Taker/Triple H at the top of the card would help

(plus..as amp pointed out...Barrett and Sheamus haven't exactly blown up)

IMO grabbing Sting would've been about 100 times better because I personally have zero interes in Hunter/Taker but that's the logic.

Because when it's your best friend reason and/or logic sometimes goes out the window.

I thnk it's a reach but I'm sure that's how it'll be written

[ampulator]

And for all we know plans leading into tis years WM was for Triple H to face Sheamus in a bloody brawl and for Taker to make Barrett look like a million bucks ala Randy Orton a few years back.


I think WWE's trying to build stars too fast... or at the very least, at the wrong pace. Look what happened to Swagger. Hot-Shotting clearly works rarely.

But the WWE is responding to a string of bad financial reports, they've brought back some Attitude Era stars to help boost viewers, and WM is the one PPV that absolutely NEEDS to be a giant success and Taker/Triple H at the top of the card would help.
I want to see these financial reports. Where are they?

[Bigpapa42]

I want to see these financial reports. Where are they?

http://corporate.wwe.com/

[Slim Jim]

IMO grabbing Sting would've been about 100 times better because I personally have zero interes in Hunter/Taker but that's the logic.

Not a Sting fan? :p

[ampulator]

http://corporate.wwe.com/
I'm looking at it, and profits are down in "Live and Televised Entertainment", "Consumer Products", and "Digital Media", but up in "WWE Studios". They actually made a profit year 2010.

Oh... maybe it's the PPV revenues. I KNEW IT! But there isn't much they can do about it. That's one area where I can say there are going to lose money either way.

[PeterHilton]

Not a Sting fan? :p

wocka wocka wocka :p

[PeterHilton]

I'm looking at it, and profits are down in "Live and Televised Entertainment", "Consumer Products", and "Digital Media", but up in "WWE Studios". They actually made a profit year 2010.

Oh... maybe it's the PPV revenues. I KNEW IT! But there isn't much they can do about it. That's one area where I can say there are going to lose money either way.

"We're going to lose money either way" probaby isn't the kind of financial analysis that the shareholders are looking for.

It's probably just a smoke screen, but when you have three bad quarters in a row, it's fairly reasonable that you respond by doing everything possible to hit a homerun with your biggest, most profitable, most visible, and most well known PPV

[ampulator]

"We're going to lose money either way" probaby isn't the kind of financial analysis that the shareholders are looking for.

It's probably just a smoke screen, but when you have three bad quarters in a row, it's fairly reasonable that you respond by doing everything possible to hit a homerun with your biggest, most profitable, most visible, and most well known PPV
Fair point... but there isn't much they can do about it. PPV's are dying, especially for entertainment. Guess what PPV's are competing with? Free TV, the Internet, DVD's, Blu-ray... It's the same reasons why theaters aren't doing too well these days.

Plus, raising the price, making the PPVs gimmicky (HIAC PPV?!), having pointless PPVs (too many to name), isn't going to help. They can't CUT the price, because that would not likely riase profits. They can't have LESS PPV's, because it will also mean less profits. As for less gimmicky PPV's... they can do something about that, but they might lose about it.

Either way, they are darned if they, darned if they don't. PPV's are going the way of the dinosaur for pre-scripted entertainment.

I'll wait for their annual report for 2010. Probably won't be good, though, especially on the PPV front.

[PeterHilton]

Either way, they are darned if they, darned if they don't. PPV's are going the way of the dinosaur for pre-scripted entertainment.

I can't disagree with anything youve said. Spot on, basically.

But because the E is publicly traded, because they got into the nasty habit of paying out dividends even when they didn't need to (which created certain expectations in their fanbase), and because they've been slow to take advantage of media outside of TV, they're tied to the PPV model for the foreseeable future.

[Jaysin]

G Rilla was safe and now Hutter goes home. I now have zero interest in NXT's outcome. Hutter was by far the most entertaining person in that group and his pairing with Danielson was great.

[djthefunkchris]

Wow... I just caught Cena's promo on Rock from Monday on youtube....

I don't really care what anyone says... He burned him pretty good. Can't wait to see Rock try to top it, lol. This could be pretty entertaining if they keep it up (never have to have a match, just do these promo's on each other).

[ampulator]

Wow... I just caught Cena's promo on Rock from Monday on youtube....

I don't really care what anyone says... He burned him pretty good. Can't wait to see Rock try to top it, lol. This could be pretty entertaining if they keep it up (never have to have a match, just do these promo's on each other).
It felt like Cena of old... and that's good.

[Hive]

There is one very simple answer for this.

Neither Barrett nor Sheamus has panned out on how they hoped they will pan out.

Long Answer: Barrett is clearly not ready in the ring, even though e has good mic skills and charisma, and Sheamus is coming along nicely along the mic, but the fans just don't seem to care about him. Well, I shouldn't say that... he's more misbooked than anything.

The WWE alone is to blame for them not being bigger than they are right now, for doing their pushes half-heartedly. Had they booked Sheamus as the monster consistently, he would have been over now. Had they given Barrett a win against Cena in singles competition, instead of letting Cena take out 7 man all by himself, he could have been somewhere now. Maybe not as far as Sheamus could have been, but that's why they could make it a 3-way between Undertaker, Kane and Barrett.

[milamber]

Sheamus still has Main Event written all over him. I don't care much for many of the brawlers (Kane etc.) but I've never been disappointed with his matches. They should turn Drew face and have them fued. They've worked together for years before they joined WWE and could put on some fast and furious matches.

Barrett just needs to add 2 good moves to his stock-standard arsenal and he could be main event quality.

For Mania they should make the Heavyweight Title match a fatal fourway - Edge v Del Rio v Rey v Christian. Del Rio to win against 3 men who don't like him. That would surely get him over as a main eventer.

[Fantabulous]

For Mania they should make the Heavyweight Title match a fatal fourway - Edge v Del Rio v Rey v Christian. Del Rio to win against 3 men who don't like him. That would surely get him over as a main eventer.

It would also get him over as a babyface if he's facing three opponents at once who don't like him. And he's not ready for the babyface turn or even a hint of one.

[Linsolv]

The WWE alone is to blame for them not being bigger than they are right now, for doing their pushes half-heartedly. Had they booked Sheamus as the monster consistently, he would have been over now. Had they given Barrett a win against Cena in singles competition, instead of letting Cena take out 7 man all by himself, he could have been somewhere now. Maybe not as far as Sheamus could have been, but that's why they could make it a 3-way between Undertaker, Kane and Barrett.

Someone get this man a beer. Couldn't agree more.

[Hashasheen]

Just watched NXT. No reason to keep watching it with Bateman out. The other two aren't worth ****.

[eayragt]

Hopefully WWE will have 'H and 'Taker face (and defeat) Sheamus and Barrett in the build up to 'Mania. I'm all for Sheamus defeating Danielson (sorry) at 'Mania to give him the go of a solid mid-title run. As for Barrett - not really sure where he goes from here. Damned, moving him to Smackdown really did stall his momentum, didn't it? Still, maybe equally he could get a midcard title reign on Smackdown by taking on Kofi. Nothing wrong with a midcard title reign.

[milamber]

Just watched NXT. No reason to keep watching it with Bateman out. The other two aren't worth ****.
Reply With Quote

Johnny Curtis has got some good moves in the ring and he's a likeable babyface. I don't mind him winning NXT. Brodus has some potential but with 2 heel stables there won't be much room for him in the WWE. But they should team Bateman and Bryan together as a tag team for a good period of time.

[PeterHilton]

On a totally unrelated note:

- WWE and CMLL both have press conferences scheduled tomorrow in Mexico City, and one or both are expected to have to do with Mistico. Jim Ross is in Mexico for the press conference which is being taped, possibly for Raw.

[ampulator]

On a totally unrelated note:
You know, I sort of said this before: WWE was heading towards more Lucha Libre. Sports Entertainment might not fit inside Lucha Libre, but Lucha Libre fits inside Sports Entertainment.

[juggaloninjalee]

I like the idea of adding lucha libre to the WWE product. While TNA has multiple womens matches WWE can bring in lucha libre. WWE>TNA in that aspect. :)

[Fantabulous]

Except Vince hates Lucha to the point that he doesn't think there's such a thing as a good Lucha Libre match. Any Lucha-style stuff that Mistico might do will eventually be 'educated' out of him until he learns the 'correct' way to work.

[juggaloninjalee]

Except Vince hates Lucha to the point that he doesn't think there's such a thing as a good Lucha Libre match. Any Lucha-style stuff that Mistico might do will eventually be 'educated' out of him until he learns the 'WWE' way to work while on steroids.

Just messing around with your original post.

[LoNdOn]

Hopefully WWE will have 'H and 'Taker face (and defeat) Sheamus and Barrett in the build up to 'Mania. I'm all for Sheamus defeating Danielson (sorry) at 'Mania to give him the go of a solid mid-title run. As for Barrett - not really sure where he goes from here. Damned, moving him to Smackdown really did stall his momentum, didn't it? Still, maybe equally he could get a midcard title reign on Smackdown by taking on Kofi. Nothing wrong with a midcard title reign.

I like the idea of Barrett with the IC strap, but not too thrilled about the prospect of Sheamus winning the US title. I'm hoping DB is in the money in the bank match at mania, that is assuming they are going to have one.

[ampulator]

Just messing around with your original post.
Except Vince has also openly admitting to finding Cena's current gimmick and character is stupid. On RAW, Live, no less. He also admitted he liked money, which is why he didn't care THAT much in the end.

If it makes vince money, I don't think it will hamper his tastes much. And look at Rey. It makes him money.

[PeterHilton]

If it makes vince money, I don't think it will hamper his tastes much. And look at Rey. It makes him money.

Meh...I don't know how much 'lucha' you can add. The biggest obstacle is still that the E is a sports-entertainment product and many of lucha's biggest names - including Mistico - aren't great at cutting promos and some aren't exactly great at speaking English.

It'll be a tough transition, but Mistico is an amazing talent so I really hope for the best for him.

[juggaloninjalee]

Meh...I don't know how much 'lucha' you can add. The biggest obstacle is still that the E is a sports-entertainment product and many of lucha's biggest names - including Mistico - aren't great at cutting promos and some aren't exactly great at speaking English.

It'll be a tough transition, but Mistico is an amazing talent so I really hope for the best for him.

Hopefully his run in the WWE is more successful than Ultimo Dragons.

[Jaysin]

Hopefully his run in the WWE is more successful than Ultimo Dragons.

Please don't remind me :(

[juggaloninjalee]

When Ultimo Dragon came to the WWE I was so excited. He was awesome! Then they didn't use him or push him. Really sad but oh well.

[PeterHilton]

When Ultimo Dragon came to the WWE I was so excited. He was awesome! Then they didn't use him or push him. Really sad but oh well.

Ultimo and Mistico are incredibly similar...little to no English, promos aren't their strong suit, smallish, cruiser weight style wrestlers who might not fit the WWE's idea of ringwork...

That's why I have very tempered hopes fo MIstico

[Jaysin]

Ultimo was/is a great psychologist though and can make almost anyone look good. I don't know why they didn't even at least utilize that...

[ampulator]

Meh...I don't know how much 'lucha' you can add. The biggest obstacle is still that the E is a sports-entertainment product and many of lucha's biggest names - including Mistico - aren't great at cutting promos and some aren't exactly great at speaking English.

It'll be a tough transition, but Mistico is an amazing talent so I really hope for the best for him.
I'll say this again - Vince's utimate goal is the bottom line... money. If it makes him money, he'll do it.

[PeterHilton]

Ultimo was/is a great psychologist though and can make almost anyone look good. I don't know why they didn't even at least utilize that...

You seriously don't know why the E didn't try to better utilizea guy's whose strongest attribute was his in-ring work?

Did you see how Dean Malenko's WWE run went?

I'll say this again - Vince's utimate goal is the bottom line... money. If it makes him money, he'll do it.

Agreed. But based on the product, and the way they present their workers, I think that it's a Big IF that Mistico hits it big.

I hope I'm wrong though

[ampulator]

You seriously don't know why the E didn't try to better utilizea guy's whose strongest attribute was his in-ring work?

Did you see how Dean Malenko's WWE run went?



Agreed. But based on the product, and the way they present their workers, I think that it's a Big IF that Mistico hits it big.

I hope I'm wrong though
But I'm not talking about Mistico. I'm talking about Lucha Libre. Fititng Sports Entertainment within Lucha Libre is not easy task, yes. But the reverse... isn't so true. Sports Entertainment is a pretty flexible product. If Vince can add "ECW" and "Attitude" into his squeaky clean "Sports Entertainment", he can certainly add some Lucha Libre into it... I argue that he already has, if not at a huge amount.

[Jaysin]

You seriously don't know why the E didn't try to better utilizea guy's whose strongest attribute was his in-ring work?

Did you see how Dean Malenko's WWE run went?

Well yeah, same with Lance Storm and quite a few others. Its just frustrating.