The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[MrCanada]

Let me follow this "storyline" chain shall I....

1) CM Punk becomes #1 contender and announces his contract will expire on the day he plans to win the title and will walk out with the belt.

2) Stuff comes to front about CM Punk's frustration with WWE and namely Vince McMahon & his family laterally.

3) CM Punk wins the title, leaves WWE.

4) This causes WWE to lose faith in Vince and remove him from power putting Triple H into power.

5) CM Punk returns and such and proves he isnt a fluke, along the way revealing HHH is "more of the same".

6) Kevin Nash costs CM Punk the title. Seemingly because someone doesnt want Punk to be WWE champion.

7) Kevin Nash keeps CM Punk out of the title picture because someone doesnt want CM Punk to be WWE champion.

8) HHH decides to fight CM Punk because Punk insulted him a couple times and wins.

9) HHH fires Kevin Nash.

10) Kevin Nash and HHH are now in a feud........

I've missed some stuff obviously, but how does that make any sense? The whole Thing hasnt had a big "payoff" yet and its completley shifted focus and left CM Punk, the catalyst, seemingly on the curb. And the original focus of the storyline, of change, of CM Punk being different and sick of the status quo and the fans (seemingly) agreeing, has now been replaced by HHH vs. Kevin Nash.... because thats new and different?

[crownsy]

Let me follow this "storyline" chain shall I....

1) CM Punk becomes #1 contender and announces his contract will expire on the day he plans to win the title and will walk out with the belt.

2) Stuff comes to front about CM Punk's frustration with WWE and namely Vince McMahon & his family laterally.

3) CM Punk wins the title, leaves WWE.

4) This causes WWE to lose faith in Vince and remove him from power putting Triple H into power.

5) CM Punk returns and such and proves he isnt a fluke, along the way revealing HHH is "more of the same".

6) Kevin Nash costs CM Punk the title. Seemingly because someone doesnt want Punk to be WWE champion.

7) Kevin Nash keeps CM Punk out of the title picture because someone doesnt want CM Punk to be WWE champion.

8) HHH decides to fight CM Punk because Punk insulted him a couple times and wins.

9) HHH fires Kevin Nash.

10) Kevin Nash and HHH are now in a feud........

I've missed some stuff obviously, but how does that make any sense? The whole Thing hasnt had a big "payoff" yet and its completley shifted focus and left CM Punk, the catalyst, seemingly on the curb. And the original focus of the storyline, of change, of CM Punk being different and sick of the status quo and the fans (seemingly) agreeing, has now been replaced by HHH vs. Kevin Nash.... because thats new and different?

Depends on how it's booked tonight and going into survivor series. I completly expect WWE to over convolute it and mess it up but if you really wanted to validate the above storyline It could be done by...

1. Tonight have Del Rio tell Cena he isn't getting another shot (which would be fair, the LMSM was cena's rematch for the title) and actually have LAurentis back him up.

2. CM Punk wins some sort of number one contenders strip, preferably by overcoming outside interferance.

3. The weeks leading up to Survivor series Johnny Ace keeps putting Punk in unfair matches/ Trying to take his shot at SS away. Leads into the "someone doesn't want me to be champion" angle they set up (and i agree with you, are currently botching)

4. At SS have del rio and Punk put on a great match, Punk Win clean, but have Johnny Ace come out and order a immediate rematch, screw him on a non existent reason for a restart ect. From there I personally would have Punk win AGAIN and keep the title, setting up a SCSA-esque "I have the title and there's nothing you can do about it " sort of situation.

However, the problems are many fold with the above happening.

1. as you and I agree, WWE hates simple, easy to follow storylines. They need a "what a twist!" moment, or so they think

2. It takes John Cena out of the immediate title picture, something Vince and WWE are loath to do. If they want to focus on CENA-ROCK it could be done.

3. It requires putting faith in someone other than John Cena to be the top dog for a bit, and keep Cena mostly out of punks way. Him "helping" punk as the other big raw baby face would destroy the whole thing

[ZMAN]

The way I see it, WWE is not meant to have long, sophisticated storylines. Look at who their target audience is, their attention span can't be that great. It sucks for the hardcore fans who actually want a good pay off or intelligent answers, but chances are we'll never get them. This isn't new, it's been around in WWE for a while. Nexus, WCW Invasion, GTV, Austin/Limo, anything with Kane(besides his intial/debut storyline), Austin/Brief case, Vince/Higher Power, anonymous GM... And of course, we all know that on-screen relationships mean shit.''

It's all about "moments" and very short-term stories with WWE, and that is where they truly deliver. Was the CM Punk/WWE storyline deep and evolving? Nah, but it did spawn several good moments.

IMO, that's part of the reason I believe that Raven never made it that big in the WWE. The character he portrayed required more than just a 20 second promo and some hardcore matches against Viscera to get over. Whereas, a guy like Austin is simple yet effective. You don't need a crazy backstory to get Austin over, the guys character is straight to the point and requires no complex story. Austin is a moments guy, Raven is a story guy.

I mean, I'm pretty sure you can do a link-by-link analysis of several other storyline chains in the past and find tons more flaws.

[Astil]

Hello WWE fans.

Odd request but if anyone has a picture of CM Punk that shows his boots could you PM it to me?

Thanks.

Also: I've had enough Nash forever now.

[Blackman]

The way I see it, WWE is not meant to have long, sophisticated storylines. Look at who their target audience is, their attention span can't be that great. It sucks for the hardcore fans who actually want a good pay off or intelligent answers, but chances are we'll never get them. This isn't new, it's been around in WWE for a while. Nexus, WCW Invasion, GTV, Austin/Limo, anything with Kane(besides his intial/debut storyline), Austin/Brief case, Vince/Higher Power, anonymous GM... And of course, we all know that on-screen relationships mean shit.''

It's all about "moments" and very short-term stories with WWE, and that is where they truly deliver. Was the CM Punk/WWE storyline deep and evolving? Nah, but it did spawn several good moments.

IMO, that's part of the reason I believe that Raven never made it that big in the WWE. The character he portrayed required more than just a 20 second promo and some hardcore matches against Viscera to get over. Whereas, a guy like Austin is simple yet effective. You don't need a crazy backstory to get Austin over, the guys character is straight to the point and requires no complex story. Austin is a moments guy, Raven is a story guy.

I mean, I'm pretty sure you can do a link-by-link analysis of several other storyline chains in the past and find tons more flaws.

Very true. (can't really add to it)

[Fantabulous]

WWE was aimed at kids when they had the year long storyline of Hogan and Savage. That seemed to turn out well.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Disagree. WINNING a feud with Orton gives Rhodes a rub. Being in matches with Main Eventers does not make them a main eventer. That's like the Royals winning 1 out of 4 against the Yankees and people saying the Royals got the rub just by playing them. Yes I know sports are different, but it's more or less the same concept.

No it isn't.. it couldn't be further from the same concept.

Sports teams don't have a status to uphold in the same manner. A superstar's status has to have a reliable story behind it. When a midcarder is rising up the ranks, it's often by riding the coattails of the much higher star above him.

If Orton squashed Rhodes in five minutes, yes that would be atrocity and a keeping down talent, and blah blah. But Cody's going toe-to-toe with multiple-time world champion the Viper, with sneak attacks behind it. That's what used to elevate him, and it works.

Hell yeah, winning will help Rhodes a ton. In time. They're developing Rhodes, cause they're giving him spots they wouldn't give other guys on the roster easily. If he keeps going with good workrate, they'll continue headlining him with Orton and eventually likely get a win.

[Candyman]

Just watched the opening segment of tonight's Raw. Two thoughts:

First, who thought it was a good idea to have the trainers try to pick up a guy who clearly had a severe back/neck injury and help them walk backstage? That was truly baffling.

Second, for the love of god I pray that the WWE's real security is 1000x better than the fake stuff. Somebody's got to have a gun or at least a taser. Jesus.

[Adam_Starr36]

Hmm.. Anyone see Miz completely miss Zack Ryder's head when he was suppose to make look like he at least attempted to touch his face, but either Ryder moved too quick, or Miz just .. didn't do too well with that, but Miz completely missed.. Sorry for bagging on Miz/Ryder it just caught me off guard and had me laughing for a good while... Still am actually.

Enjoy the rest of the Triple H show.

[codey]

What happened with that discussion a couple of weeks ago about Rock competing at Survivor Series?

[milamber]

I'm in the pro-Henry camp. He's gold right now.

I think Rhodes beating and bagging the #2 babyface in the company is a huge rub. What they do next with him is crucial though.

With Nash, I thought he was gone for good but now it seems he might have a part to play at SS.

And no one's mention the unmasking of Sin Cara Negro on last week's SD. Am I the only one who's interested in the Sin Caras?

Read somewhere that Brodus Clay is debuting on Raw soon and they intend to have him compete on both brands for a while. Sounds good to me.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Despite the fact they advertised it all tap-dancing night.. at least there's a scenario behind the team-up.

[Teh_Showtime]

What happened with that discussion a couple of weeks ago about Rock competing at Survivor Series?
Cena just said him and Rock will team vs Awesome Truth

[bigtplaystew]

Cena just said him and Rock will team vs Awesome Truth

Yea and he spit all over the mic when he said it. Hocked a nice streaming loogey... GROSS! lol

[OldStingberg]

I thought Raw last night was solid enough. A couple nice wrestling matches, one of them was even totally new. Christian/Rhodes vs. Orton/Sheamus was to be expected, but seeing Barrett vs. Morrison was nice. I'm a big fan of seeing Santino. Johnny Ace had too much time on the mic, but at least they gave Punk the opportunity to say what we're all thinking. Punk really, really needed that. Michael Cole wasn't even that annoying, and I'm cautiously optimistic (more cautiously than optimistic) about what will happen between him and JR next week.

I read a report yesterday that Vince has soured on factions in general, and that seems to be the case. It looks like they're setting up Nash vs. HHH, Punk vs. ADR, and The Rock 'n' Jorts Connection vs. Awesome Truth in lieu of a high-profile Survivor Series style match. That probably makes sense, too, because at this point in the WWE, if they load 10 of their top guys into one match, what the hell do they have left for the other two-and-a-half hours of a PPV? Ziggler wrestling three times?

It does cause some problems, though. For one, I'm not sure how many people are looking forward to a HHH & Nash program. And two, I'm not really buying Awesome Truth as this monster team that needs Cena to team with The Rock to overcome them. To me, Awesome Truth is still just a silly comedy team that raps about conspiracies and Little Jimmies, they're not some menacing force. I'd be much happier if Zig Swag had gotten this big push, or, even better, if they would have partnered Ziggler with The Miz. Oh well.

[juggaloninjalee]

I thought Raw last night was solid enough. A couple nice wrestling matches, one of them was even totally new. Christian/Rhodes vs. Orton/Sheamus was to be expected, but seeing Barrett vs. Morrison was nice. I'm a big fan of seeing Santino. Johnny Ace had too much time on the mic, but at least they gave Punk the opportunity to say what we're all thinking. Punk really, really needed that. Michael Cole wasn't even that annoying, and I'm cautiously optimistic (more cautiously than optimistic) about what will happen between him and JR next week.

I read a report yesterday that Vince has soured on factions in general, and that seems to be the case. It looks like they're setting up Nash vs. HHH, Punk vs. ADR, and The Rock 'n' Jorts Connection vs. Awesome Truth in lieu of a high-profile Survivor Series style match. That probably makes sense, too, because at this point in the WWE, if they load 10 of their top guys into one match, what the hell do they have left for the other two-and-a-half hours of a PPV? Ziggler wrestling three times?

It does cause some problems, though. For one, I'm not sure how many people are looking forward to a HHH & Nash program. And two, I'm not really buying Awesome Truth as this monster team that needs Cena to team with The Rock to overcome them. To me, Awesome Truth is still just a silly comedy team that raps about conspiracies and Little Jimmies, they're not some menacing force. I'd be much happier if Zig Swag had gotten this big push, or, even better, if they would have partnered Ziggler with The Miz. Oh well.

I think Miz and Truth will win this match either because Rock and Cena can't get on the same page or because Rock turns on Cena and lays him out. The purpose of this match is to keep momentum going for Rock vs Cena at Mania.

Ziggler and Swagger will probably face each other at the Rumble for the US Title if not sooner. Swagger will probably have a face turn leading to it.

As for HHH and Nash I am not sure where this is going but it is the main storyline right now with Johnny Ace and the COO position. Does HBK come back and get in the middle of this? What about Waltman? I don't really know.

[codey]

Cena just said him and Rock will team vs Awesome Truth

I know. It was just a comment on how people were denying like crazy that he would actually compete :p

[Tha Black Phenom]

It does cause some problems, though. For one, I'm not sure how many people are looking forward to a HHH & Nash program. And two, I'm not really buying Awesome Truth as this monster team that needs Cena to team with The Rock to overcome them. To me, Awesome Truth is still just a silly comedy team that raps about conspiracies and Little Jimmies, they're not some menacing force. I'd be much happier if Zig Swag had gotten this big push, or, even better, if they would have partnered Ziggler with The Miz. Oh well.

They're not meant to be a menacing force by any means, just some persistent troublemaking pests that need to be taken care of.. because of their numerous attacks and amazingly piss poor security staff. IMO it's a solid heel role to have, emphasized by their amount of screentime and exposure lately.

I don't think anyone expects them to be a threat, question might just be "will Rock and Cena be able to coexist".

[Jaysin]

I think Miz and Truth will win this match either because Rock and Cena can't get on the same page or because Rock turns on Cena and lays him out. The purpose of this match is to keep momentum going for Rock vs Cena at Mania.

Ziggler and Swagger will probably face each other at the Rumble for the US Title if not sooner. Swagger will probably have a face turn leading to it.

As for HHH and Nash I am not sure where this is going but it is the main storyline right now with Johnny Ace and the COO position. Does HBK come back and get in the middle of this? What about Waltman? I don't really know.

Really? Swagger?

It seems like Ziggler will be the one getting a face turn to me.

[OldStingberg]

They're not meant to be a menacing force by any means, just some persistent troublemaking pests that need to be taken care of.. because of their numerous attacks and amazingly piss poor security staff. IMO it's a solid heel role to have, emphasized by their amount of screentime and exposure lately.

I don't think anyone expects them to be a threat, question might just be "will Rock and Cena be able to coexist".

Almost the entire WWE roster walked out of Raw because of their attacks. Surely it'd take more than some "troublemaking pests" for that to happen.

[OldStingberg]

Really? Swagger?

It seems like Ziggler will be the one getting a face turn to me.

I don't think either will. It seemed like at one point they were going to do something, when they started the two guys feuding, but I don't think they ever had a clear idea what they were going to do. As a result, they ended that feud without any explanation and now the two are totally buddy-buddy.

[TakerNGN74]

Picked up the Greatest Rivalries: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels DVD today and I have already watched the first disc. One of the best WWE DVDs I hever ever purchased, if you are on the fence about grabbing this DVD do it you won't regret it.

[Mr Rager]

Picked up the Greatest Rivalries: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels DVD today and I have already watched the first disc. One of the best WWE DVDs I hever ever purchased, if you are on the fence about grabbing this DVD do it you won't regret it.

Haven't bought a WWE production in many years but I'll be ordering that tomorrow when I get paid. Super excited.

Anyone else get the feeling we'll see a bunch of upper midcarders thrown into a 5vs5 for no real reason other than for the sake of a 5vs5 taking place at Survivor Series? Shame, because with the whole fight for power that was playing out it seemed the perfect opportunity for a 5vs5 with an actual story behind it, but at the same time it's understandable that they don't want to put all of their stars in one match.

Randy Orton, Sheamus, Kofi Kingston, Evan Bourne & Zack Ryder/Mason Ryan vs. Cody Rhodes, Christian, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger & one other (Wade Barrett?) - something resembling that would be my guess.

[sebsy]

I'm begging for Survivor Series to look something like...

5v5 elimination
HHH, CM Punk, John Cena, The Rock, Mick Foley (rumours of a return)
vs
Kevin Nash, Alberto Del Rio, The Miz, R-Truth (one other)

World Title
Mark Henry vs Big Show

US Title
Dolph Ziggler vs Zack Ryder

5v5 elimination
Randy Orton, Sheamus, Mason Ryan, Kofi Kingston, Evan Bourne
vs
Cody Rhodes, Christian, Jack Swagger, Wade Barrett, David Otunga

Sin Cara vs Sin Cara

5v5 elimination

Eve, Kelly Kelly, Alicia Fox, AJ, Kaitlyn
vs
Beth Phoenix, Natalya, Tamina, Brie Bella, Nikki Bella

Something along thosel ines anyway would be pretty good I think, or even just the first 5v5 elimination match and make a couple of matches out of the other one with Orton vs Rhodes and maybe Air Boom vs Barrett/Christian for the tag titles.



But I fear we will get something like...

Del Rio vs CM Punk - WWE Title
Cena/Rock vs Awesome Truth
HHH vs Nash
some 5v5 match

Would only be interested in the ADR vs Punk match out of that plus the 5v5 if it wasn't just filler. The thought of seeing HHH vs Nash does nothing for me at all, and I was fully expecting Cena/Rock to be part of a 5v5 so that doesn't interest me much either.

Hopefully Punk still doesn't show respect to Laurinaitis so he puts them on opposite sides and sticks them in the Cena/Rock vs Awesome Truth match along with HHH/Nash etc.

[milamber]

I think we can safely add Ziggler v Ryan for the US Title. Possibly Sheamus v Rhodes.

[BHK1978]

I just read that Barry Windham had suffered a massive heart attack. And before someone comes in here and complains about me going off topic, Barry was part of the US Express in the WWF so it is on topic.

[juggaloninjalee]

I just read that Barry Windham had suffered a massive heart attack. And before someone comes in here and complains about me going off topic, Barry was part of the US Express in the WWF so it is on topic.

He was also Blackjack Windham in the 90s and the Stalker. That sucks though! Is he ok now?

[Rocland]

They fired Maryse?!? Damn....

[milamber]

Super Smackdown was really good. Better than Raw this week.

[Mr Rager]

Happy that Wade Barrett seems to be getting something of a push. Not too sure about 'Barrett Barrage' though.

[OldStingberg]

Super Smackdown was really good. Better than Raw this week.

That's par for the course. Even Superstars has, in many ways, been better than Raw lately. This week Superstars had Air Boom vs. JTG & Primo, Eve & Kelly Kelly vs. The Bella Twins, and Cody Rhodes vs. Ted DiBiase, with all the matches getting some decent time. Cody Rhodes even busted out a slick top-rope moonsault to a standing DiBiase.

[stratusfaction]

They fired Maryse?!? Damn....

I'm pretty sure Maryse asked for her release. She would rather model then wrestle. I'm going to miss her though. She was my favorite Diva.

[OldStingberg]

Seems like you've got a much better chance of winning tonight if you're not a reigning champion.

[sebsy]

Evan Bourne suspended for a violation of the wellness policy.

Bit of a surprise that one. Quite a few of them at it atm.

[SHaynes23]

Evan Bourne suspended for a violation of the wellness policy.

Bit of a surprise that one. Quite a few of them at it atm.

Guess that means Rhodes and Barrett will be taking the tag titles on Smackdown or Raw next week.

[sebsy]

Rhodes and Barrett?

I'd have thought more likely either Awesome Truth or Swaggler.

[SHaynes23]

Rhodes and Barrett?

I'd have thought more likely either Awesome Truth or Swaggler.

I was figuring since they picked up a win over them on Raw last night they'd have the inside track.

[sebsy]

Oh, I've not watched last nights Raw yet, as it's on at 2am here.

Spoiled it for me now :(

Nah, just kidding, doesn't bother me knowing the outcome of that match :D

[Wrestling Century]

Evan Bourne suspended for a violation of the wellness policy.

Bit of a surprise that one. Quite a few of them at it atm.

*facepalm* Wow, I have a bad feeling that this will be the end of Evan Bourne's tenure with the WWE. He had worked himself out a good midcard position too. The thing that I don't understand is that he is a cruiserweight, why would he take anything that violates the wellness policy?

[juggaloninjalee]

*facepalm* Wow, I have a bad feeling that this will be the end of Evan Bourne's tenure with the WWE. He had worked himself out a good midcard position too. The thing that I don't understand is that he is a cruiserweight, why would he take anything that violates the wellness policy?

The #1 use of steroids is recovering from injury quicker. Steroids put your body in hyperdrive when trying to recover from injury. So it isn't always to get bigger and stronger. Maybe Evan was trying to recover from injuries or maybe he wanted to get bigger.

[Slim Jim]

He bumps quite a lot, and, being a high-flyer, sometimes pretty big bumps too, so it could have been banned pain medication.

[juggaloninjalee]

He bumps quite a lot, and, being a high-flyer, sometimes pretty big bumps too, so it could have been banned pain medication.

This could be the case as well.

Or who knows maybe he likes that wacky tobacky! All we are doing is speculating but we could find out eventually.

[sebsy]

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/WWE/article10021587.shtml

:cool:

[bigtplaystew]

I've followed Evan Bourne since his ROH days. He's been outspoken towards (what he feels) are positive effects of psychotropics and marijuana. I'm pretty sure he got in some trouble a few years ago, early in his WWE career, over some tweets when he defended marijuana usage.

If I were a betting man, I'd say it was recreational use.

Ultimately it's his business I dont care what a man does in his personal life as long as he takes responsibility for his actions.

[codey]

This is kind of just a random thought, but is anyone else really hoping CM Punk doesn't go back to the shoulder length hair? He looks like such a badass now, whereas the long hair on him just screams midcarder. Some guys can pull it off, but he just looks dirty when he's rocking it.

[bigtplaystew]

This is kind of just a random thought, but is anyone else really hoping CM Punk doesn't go back to the shoulder length hair? He looks like such a badass now, whereas the long hair on him just screams midcarder. Some guys can pull it off, but he just looks dirty when he's rocking it.

I agree. Problem is... he's thinning a little bit haha.

[steesh07]

Not too related to WWE but is anyone going to Mick Foley's Comedy tour in the UK?

[BHK1978]

Not too related to WWE but is anyone going to Mick Foley's Comedy tour in the UK?

My friend went to one of his gigs last year (could have been the year before). He said it was not really that funny if you were not a wrestling fan (which obviously all of us are in this thread). It wasn't so much of a stand-up routine as it was him telling funny stories about his time in wrestling. I guess if you have either one of his books, he probably covers that stuff in his act.

[bigtplaystew]

I've seen Foley recently and I saw him a year ago. I can safely tell you his comedy has improved greatly. He's learned to use the economy of words necessary to hit punchlines and keep the audience's attention. When i saw him the first time he'd ramble and go very long without getting to the damn joke. Which is fine. Kevin Smith successfully does this at his live Q and As but he doesn't do it in a comedy club either.

I think if you are a wrestling fan you'll like the act much more, but he's a decent comedy act in his own right. Let me be clear here, the big names in stand up have nothing to worry about. I don't think he's the next Dane Cook. But he made me laugh and I enjoyed his set.

[BHK1978]

I don't think he's the next Dane Cook.

Yeah very few are as bad as Dane Cook (I think he is one of the worst mainstream comedians.).

[bigtplaystew]

Yeah very few are as bad as Dane Cook (I think he is one of the worst mainstream comedians.).

Haha. To be clear, I was simply using him as a reference for success. He's one of the bigger draws in comedy. I guess I feel "lukewarm" about Dane Cook. He's got some very funny bits, other stuff was just college girls giggling at the cute crazy guy on stage.

I do think if you are a wrestling fan Foley's act won't disappoint. He's just done more editing to his material to make it work better in the stand-up comedy scene as opposed to spoken word. I'd like to see Piper I hear he's doing some stand-up.

[milamber]

Hands down my favourite SD of the year. A PPV quality Orton v Rhodes match to open. Big Show choke-slamming Christian. Sheamus v Barrett. Epico's impressive debut (I expect him and Hunico to form a tag team like they did in FCW). Bryan v Henry (with a briefcase cash-in fakeout!).

Looks like we could get a 5v5 Team Sheamus v Team Orton match at SS (Sheamus/Orton/Bryan/Sin Cara/DiBiase v Christian/Rhodes/Barrett/Hunico/Kidd).

[ChrisKid]

Am i the only one who dosen't like it when WWE shoots RAW in England because there is always the same set with a taxi & bus, the corny jokes and it always seems to be a rather poor show with no ground breaking moments, no clay debut (:confused: thought he may have debuted in the main event taking out Cena or Ryder) nice to see JoMo get a win though

[Nathers7]

Am i the only one who dosen't like it when WWE shoots RAW in England because there is always the same set with a taxi & bus, the corny jokes and it always seems to be a rather poor show with no ground breaking moments, no clay debut (:confused: thought he may have debuted in the main event taking out Cena or Ryder) nice to see JoMo get a win though

I wonder will they go through a show in England without saying 'jolly old'? Yea nothing seemed to happen really, Nash's promo was the only positive to be honest in terms of story progression. They also did the usual on taped shows, editing in cheers after Cena spoke and editing out the boos he was getting.

[Mr Rager]

I loved Michael Cole's pronunciation of 'Scousers'.

[crownsy]

The #1 use of steroids is recovering from injury quicker. Steroids put your body in hyperdrive when trying to recover from injury. So it isn't always to get bigger and stronger. Maybe Evan was trying to recover from injuries or maybe he wanted to get bigger.

Word on the rumor sites is it was synthetic canniblis. I.e K2 or Spice. That's what there saying slater and young go tnailed for too. Alot of the talent use them because they were legal (at least till 2 months ago) and pot's against the wellness program.

They just started testing for it last month as part of the program, which could have led to them getting caught cold.

Because drinking yourself into a coma isn't a wellness violation, but taking a few puffs is :rolleyes:

(disclaimer: It's a private company and they can test for whatever they want, so i'm not excusing the talent. You sign the contract, your subject to whatever tests your employer wants to do. Just stating a personal opinion. on the hypocrisy of alcohol vs. weed in general)

[djthefunkchris]

(disclaimer: It's a private company and they can test for whatever they want, so i'm not excusing the talent. You sign the contract, your subject to whatever tests your employer wants to do. Just stating a personal opinion. on the hypocrisy of alcohol vs. weed in general)

I'm quoting you, but I'm not necessarilly debating you... Meaning I can see your opinion, and just feel like stating mine, not saying either are more right...Although I do AGREE with you, you have to realise that weed in general isn't as "safe" as people percieve it to be... I love all the comedians that talk about it as much as anyone else does, but you have to see the whole viewpoint.

On Weed vs. Alcohol: I totally agree Alcohol is just as bad, when you think about health issues, and all types of addictive points as well... I want to make that perfectly clear, and that that debate is not why I quoted you. You were talking about the policy the WWE uses right now, so I want to share my thoughts there for a second. I believe the reason weed is on it, is only because it's illegal. Seems to me they put anything on their, that could cause bad publicity for them in the future, if someone is "caught" doing it. So far, alcohol hasn't been something that wrestling is associated with, as their are just as much alcoholics outside of wrestling as their are inside (as far as I know).

Now, on with a few points about weed, that are different from those about booze. The biggest point I have ever heard, and all you have to do is ask friends that are on harder drugs, and you will see the same pattern... but weed has been found as an introductive drug (not sure I'm saying that right). Meaning, people that do much harder drugs now, are often times introduced to the drug scene through reefer. Doesn't mean everyone goes on, which is a strong point that I want to come back to later.... what it does mean however, is there is a strong belief that most heavy drug addicts would never have gone that route, had they not had pot first. A misconception about pot, is that it is NOT addictive. That's actually not true, it is addictive in almost the exact same way smoking tobacco is addictive. You have several kinds of addiction associated with both, however, reefer is not chemically adictive (I believe I have that right)... However, habitually, it is very addictive. Some people actually think they have to have it to relax, every single night (same way some people have to have a drink every night). Doesn't mean if it's unavailable, your going to start shaking and bouncing off walls though... but it's there.

Back to another point... It doesn't mean everyone that smokes will go on down a horrible path into drug addiction. To be honest, I think the same can be said (or could have been said years ago anyways) about smoking tobacco... IF person "A" never smoked before they were of legal age, would they have ever tried Pot? IF Pot were as legal as alcohol, would it be an introductive drug, since it would be legal, and the "thrill" of doing something illegal wouldn't be there? Lots of other questions I could put up like that, that no one has been able to answer, and I wanted them up there so I don't look like a hypocrit or something when I say I agree with the WWE Policy. Alcohol is legal, pot is not. SO to me, it makes perfect scense. Doesn't mean to me that pot does anyone any worse then alcohol does. I've been a drinker, and at a time was a heavy drinker... Somehow I never become an alcoholic though, as I can go whole years without having a drink and don't think about, or miss it at all... I know other's that can't be awake longer then two hours, without shaking, unless they have a drink.

EDIT: After the bolded, I meant to put down that I know other's that have done illegal drugs in the same fashion... and could walk away without any problem. Meaning, some people just don't get "hooked", other's do... Me and my tobacco, for example, is a totally different issue... Hate that I smoke, can't seem to quit... everytime I think about not having another one, makes me want it more.

[moon_lit_tears]

The #1 use of steroids is recovering from injury quicker. Steroids put your body in hyperdrive when trying to recover from injury. So it isn't always to get bigger and stronger. Maybe Evan was trying to recover from injuries or maybe he wanted to get bigger.

Thing is. If he's hurt enough to have to take them to heal, he should not be in the ring. Just my opinion.


To go off what DJ said. There was a time when drinking and WWae could be linked heavily. Mostly due to Stone cold.

Now the whole drug issue. I used to think to each their own, but the problem is as DJ said pot is more of a starter. People do it for the thrill. Once it's gone they go in search of something else to give them that thrill or high, most times it's harder drugs, then your body craves that thrill.

It always makes me a bit sad when people take the route of drugs.

Drinking allbeit not in any way better, isn't always as bad. Studies show you are less likely to get addicted to alcohol than to caffeine.

Unfortunately sports have so many issues with drugs and the WWE has it's share.

[lazorbeak]

dj, the short version is what you're saying doesn't belong in the WWE discussion thread. The longer version is: don't go on a big rant about drugs (or anything, really), unless you have an extremely firm grasp of what you're talking about. A lot of the things you said are either totally incorrect, halfway correct, or not particularly relevant. For one thing, addiction is about brain chemistry. What you're talking about is far less addictive then alcohol or cigarettes. Also you might as well call those "gateway" drugs, too.

But again, this conversation doesn't belong here. On topic, Bourne continues to shoot himself in the foot every time he starts to get on a roll; first with injuries, now this.

[djthefunkchris]

dj, the short version is what you're saying doesn't belong in the WWE discussion thread. The longer version is: don't go on a big rant about drugs (or anything, really), unless you have an extremely firm grasp of what you're talking about. A lot of the things you said are either totally incorrect, halfway correct, or not particularly relevant. For one thing, addiction is about brain chemistry. What you're talking about is far less addictive then alcohol or cigarettes. Also you might as well call those "gateway" drugs, too.

But again, this conversation doesn't belong here. On topic, Bourne continues to shoot himself in the foot every time he starts to get on a roll; first with injuries, now this.

I was going to respond, but it's obvious you didn't really read my post.

[lazorbeak]

I was going to respond, but it's obvious you didn't really read my post.

Since you were off-topic and rambling, all I can say is... good. Even if that means you feel the need to say something nonsensical like "it's obvious" I didn't read your post. Maybe your post didn't communicate what you thought it did?

[moon_lit_tears]

I was going to respond, but it's obvious you didn't really read my post.

Maybe you won't, but I will simply because I really dislike people who feel they are entitled to talk down to others no matter what kind of fool they look like.

LB. DJs post was on the topic being discussed ABOUT a WWE star. Was it exclusively about it? No.

That does not mean it was off topic. Drugs very. Even the legal ones that help you heal like the ones mentioned above. DJ was giving some examples of others. That's not off topic it's opening the discussion a little further. If you don't like it then well, we don't care.

You say it was incorrect. What part? Quite honestly I believe he has a good grasp on the topic.

Now back to being on topic.

Just seen something fantastic from my aunt. She sent me a pic she had taken a few years back in Michigan when she met a few of the superstars at a local event. Her friend owns a Harley shop. Undertaker was there signing autographs. She has a picture of him sitting on her bike. How cool is that?

[djthefunkchris]

Since you were off-topic and rambling, all I can say is... good. Even if that means you feel the need to say something nonsensical like "it's obvious" I didn't read your post. Maybe your post didn't communicate what you thought it did?

It wasn't a rant, number one. I don't think anyone else felt it to be either.

Number two, you made a point I already made.

Number three, you didn't contradict anything I said, you just made it sound that way.

[juggaloninjalee]

Just seen something fantastic from my aunt. She sent me a pic she had taken a few years back in Michigan when she met a few of the superstars at a local event. Her friend owns a Harley shop. Undertaker was there signing autographs. She has a picture of him sitting on her bike. How cool is that?

I am not a huge Undertaker fan but that is really awesome! It would be more awesome if he rode her bike down to the ring when he was doing the BA gimmick. Still though a photo of that would be awesome.

[moon_lit_tears]

I am not a huge Undertaker fan but that is really awesome! It would be more awesome if he rode her bike down to the ring when he was doing the BA gimmick. Still though a photo of that would be awesome.

She's a huge fan, and said she wanted to take him home.

He scares me personally....:)

[juggaloninjalee]

She's a huge fan, and said she wanted to take him home.

He scares me personally....:)

Is her house built for giants? He is tall and may hit his head on the doorways and ceiling fans.

[moon_lit_tears]

Is her house built for giants? He is tall and may hit his head on the doorways and ceiling fans.

:p

Yeah he is pretty tall. She's 5ft 9 and looked like a midget standing next to him.

[juggaloninjalee]

:p

Yeah he is pretty tall. She's 5ft 9 and looked like a midget standing next to him.

Haha I love it! Can you post the picture?

[lazorbeak]

Last post wherin I talk about why off-topic stuff is, in fact, off-topic.


LB. DJs post was on the topic being discussed ABOUT a WWE star. Was it exclusively about it? No.

That does not mean it was off topic. Drugs very. Even the legal ones that help you heal like the ones mentioned above. DJ was giving some examples of others. That's not off topic it's opening the discussion a little further. If you don't like it then well, we don't care.

It's off-topic because it's three paragraphs about personal opinions on a divisive issue. It'd be like mentioning Kane appearing on Fox News and then going into three paragraphs of personal opinions about my own politics. It's the kind of post that starts arguments and offers almost nothing new in terms of insight. If he had just said "well it's the law," and left out all the other stuff, he would've basically said the same thing and not looked like he wanted to go on a soapbox about some drugs vs. other drugs.

I <3 the "we don't care" line from someone who introduces the post explaining their dislike of "talking down." I hope you appreciate the irony of standing up for someone whose rebuttal is "obviously you didn't read what I said." Because obviously a person couldn't possibly have misunderstood something that wasn't clear or hold a contrary opinion. Meanwhile I'm the bad guy because I said I thought a post was off-topic and didn't belong in a particular thread. But by all means, take a post not directed at you as an opportunity to tell people that you don't care what others think. And I already explained two specific issues where it wasn't correct, but my point was that it was off-topic.


It wasn't a rant, number one. I don't think anyone else felt it to be either.

Number two, you made a point I already made.

Number three, you didn't contradict anything I said, you just made it sound that way.

I never called it a rant, and I did contradict specific things you said. I don't know if there's just a clarity issue here or what. And once again, my point was that it was off-topic, so I'm not particularly interested in getting sucked into a drugs debate.

But again, all of this is off-topic, so let's move on.

[moon_lit_tears]

dj, the short version is what you're saying doesn't belong in the WWE discussion thread. The longer version is: don't go on a big rant about drugs (or anything, really), unless you have an extremely firm grasp of what you're talking about. A lot of the things you said are either totally incorrect, halfway correct, or not particularly relevant. For one thing, addiction is about brain chemistry. What you're talking about is far less addictive then alcohol or cigarettes. Also you might as well call those "gateway" drugs, too.

But again, this conversation doesn't belong here. On topic, Bourne continues to shoot himself in the foot every time he starts to get on a roll; first with injuries, now this.

Do you enjoy being a troll? You need to think before you type.

As for the *we don't care comment*. No I don't care. That's not talking down or telling you that you don't know what you're talking about.

Jugga that should be a no. She's not exactly appropriately dressed, if ever. :p. I'll ask her if she minds me showing and I'll pm you a link, but it's up to her.

[bigtplaystew]

I wonder will they go through a show in England without saying 'jolly old'? Yea nothing seemed to happen really, Nash's promo was the only positive to be honest in terms of story progression. They also did the usual on taped shows, editing in cheers after Cena spoke and editing out the boos he was getting.

The Raw broadcast I watched must have been different. They were booing the crap out of Cena on my TV. They seemed to cheer most of the heels while faces didn't get much at all. In fact, Mason Ryan got almost nothing whereas Ziggler got a chant going haha.

Punk got a huge pop, but he seems to get that pretty steadily everywhere on TV.

I didn't feel like they put too crowd noise in at all. Certainly nothing on the level that TNA does it.

[Nathers7]

The Raw broadcast I watched must have been different. They were booing the crap out of Cena on my TV. They seemed to cheer most of the heels while faces didn't get much at all. In fact, Mason Ryan got almost nothing whereas Ziggler got a chant going haha.

Punk got a huge pop, but he seems to get that pretty steadily everywhere on TV.

I didn't feel like they put too crowd noise in at all. Certainly nothing on the level that TNA does it.

In hindsight maybe the boos weren't as edited as I thought although it was pretty obvious that there was alot of piped in cheers during the opening promo in particular. Ryan wasn't going to get a pop in Liverpool lol, a big roided freak who's Welsh will struggle to get a pop outside Wales.

British crowds are always great, they just need more serious shows here in the future.

[djthefunkchris]

I never called it a rant, and I did contradict specific things you said. I don't know if there's just a clarity issue here or what. And once again, my point was that it was off-topic, so I'm not particularly interested in getting sucked into a drugs debate.

But again, all of this is off-topic, so let's move on.

You brought up "brain chemistry". I don't know why, I never brought it up period, all I brought up is what is widely believed to be true, and I went out of my way to make sure people understand that I don't necessarily agree one way or the other... I've seen both sides of the debate happen.

There is not enough, or maybe there is too much, information out there to be able to say anything definate about it... All I can say is what I know to be definately believed widely.

As far as me not making myself (personally) clear or concise, is because I can honestly say I don't know what to believe personally, to have a clear and concise point to it... even wikipedia doesn't say anything totally clear.

Though the long-term effects of cannabis have been studied, there remains much to be concluded. Debated aspects include the possibility of cannabis dependence, the potential of cannabis as a "gateway drug", its effects on intelligence and memory, and the relationship, if any, of cannabis use to mental disorders such as schizophrenia and depression. On some topics, such as the drug's effects on the lungs, relatively little research has been conducted, leading to division as to the severity of its impact.

While cannabis has been correlated with the development of various mental disorders in multiple studies, these studies differ widely as to whether cannabis use is the cause of the mental problems, whether the mental problems encourage cannabis use, or whether both the cannabis use and the mental problems are the effects of some other cause. Still other studies encourage the use of cannabis in treating schizophrenia.[citation needed] Similarly, efforts to prove the "gateway drug" hypothesis that cannabis and alcohol make users more inclined to become addicted to "harder" drugs like cocaine and heroin have produced mixed results, with different studies finding varying degrees of correlation between the use of cannabis and other drugs, and some finding none.[citation needed] Generally, no scientific consensus exists regarding many of cannabis's long-term effects, despite a large number of studies.

Although they also have this:
Cannabis dependence is a condition defined in DSM-IV applying the general concept of substance dependence to cannabis.

Despite cannabis being one of the most widely used illicit drugs in the world, controlled trials for cannabis use disorder have only been reported in literature in the last 15 years. Although the chemicals in cannabis are not physically dependant, many clinicians continue to conclude that there are withdrawal syndromes associated with cannabis use. Research has shown that cannabis users may develop cannabis-related problems, including dependency.

Only a minority of cannabis users seek medical help with their addiction, but demand for treatment for cannabis use disorder is increasing internationally.[3] Evidence suggests that among those who have used cannabis more than a few times the risk of developing dependence is in the range of from 1 in 5 to 1 in 3; the more often cannabis has been used, and the longer it has been used, the higher the risk of the feeling of dependence. In addition, the majority of 'dependent' users continue to use cannabis without seeking treatment. Most users who are addicted to cannabis use it regulairly every 2-3 days, ranging from daily users to users who use frequently through the day.

Evidence for cannabis dependence comes from a number of sources including epidemiological surveys, studies of long-term users,clinical trials of people seeking treatment, controlled experiments on withdrawal and tolerance and laboratory studies on cannabis brain mechanisms. Budney et al. state that "clinical and epidemiological studies indicate that cannabis dependence is a relatively common phenomenon associated with significant psychosocial abnormality. Basic research has identified a neurobiological system specific to the actions of cannabinoids. Human and non-human studies have demonstrated a valid withdrawal syndrome that is relatively common among heavy marijuana users". In addition, clinical trials evaluating treatments for cannabis dependence indicate that, among other substance dependencies, cannabis dependency is responsive to intervention

You can go to many different websights, through many different books, and look up many different studies, and find (amazing as it might sound) totally opposite results, viewpoints etc.

As for me personally, I feel that weed is less harmfull then alcohol. I don't know that for fact, but it's what I believe. I don't smoke it, but then again I can get tested at any time my work feels, so that might have something to do with it. However, I can drink all I want without any fear of getting tested, because they don't test for that. Probably the same reason WWE doesn't test for it, because it's not illegal.

Addiction is not solely about "brain chemistry" either. There are habitual, physical, and psychological reason's a person can be addicted... A person addicted to porn, gambling, sex, or exercise, for example, isn't necessarily having a "brain chemistry" thing going on.

My problem with you is you have no idea what I know, and I have a feeling if you did, you would never have posted in the way in which you did. I said you obviously didn't read what I wrote, because obviously you missed everything I said, and you really didn't say anything that dissagreed with me, outside of saying I was wrong. All I had was an opinion as to why weed is still illegal, and on a list of drugs someone like WWE would test for. It would be no different if I said my favorite colour is blue, and you said "your totally incorrect".

[lazorbeak]

My problem with you is you have no idea what I know, and I have a feeling if you did, you would never have posted in the way in which you did. I said you obviously didn't read what I wrote, because obviously you missed everything I said, and you really didn't say anything that dissagreed with me, outside of saying I was wrong. All I had was an opinion as to why weed is still illegal, and on a list of drugs someone like WWE would test for. It would be no different if I said my favorite colour is blue, and you said "your totally incorrect".

My only "problem" is that after I say something is off-topic and should be dropped, you were more concerned that someone "dissagreed" with what you said (which is why this is an issue that doesn't belong in a WWE discussion thread) instead of letting it go and having the self-awareness to realize that "yeah, maybe a thread about Raw results isn't the place to talk at length about what drugs I personally find harmful." It's a discussion that inevitably leads to pointless arguing, which I have been trying to avoid. And still am.

Seriously. Let's. Move. On.

[Adam Ryland]

djthefunkchris, if you want to continue your discussion, take it to PM - it has no place in this thread and is derailing it.

[juggaloninjalee]

WWE.com has an article up about 5 of the best Survivor Series moments. http://www.wwe.com/shows/survivorseries/2011/survivor-series-changed-wwe

What are some of yours? The 1st Elimination Chamber is one of the best. The Montreal Screwjob was the most famous I feel.

[Mr Rager]

I think my favourite is probably the WWF vs Alliance match. Even though the angle as a whole didn't go as well as it should have done, that match itself was pretty badass.

[ThriceP86]

In light of recent booking and news events, just wanted to ask peeps on here what they think of...

1) Del Rio vs Punk at Survivor Series? Punk having the title back would be awesome but not if he's going to face Austin at Wrestlemania. And if he gets the title back I'd rather he have it for a longer period of time.
Berto is getting bland like Punk stated on RAW. He needs something more to his character or whatever... so I'm on the fence as to whether he keeps the title or not. He's a good wrestle, just not a great draw/character or whatever you want to call it.

2) Sheamus vs Undertaker at Wrestlemania!? (If it happens) Ever since Sheamus bursted on the scene I liked his unique look and doing the Celtic Warrior gimmick was smart. I think these two would have a classic match so that Taker could go 20-0 and set Sheamus up for another BIG main event push.

[The Final Countdown]

1) Del Rio vs Punk at Survivor Series? Punk having the title back would be awesome but not if he's going to face Austin at Wrestlemania.
I don't think it would make much sense to have Rock AND Austin wrestle on the same show. If Austin feels he can work one more Mania match, why not hold off for a year so his first match in years isn't overshadowed by Rock vs. Cena?

[sebsy]

This Monday's Raw is a 3 hour show iirc, anyone know if it will have a special theme?

3 Hour show again on December 12th which I imagine will be a slammy awards show.

[MattitudeV2]

This Monday's Raw is a 3 hour show iirc, anyone know if it will have a special theme?

3 Hour show again on December 12th which I imagine will be a slammy awards show.

Raw gets ROCKED!!!

[Mr Rager]

Raw gets ROCKED!!!

You mean... COLED!!!

http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/evilcole_56654.gif

[ThriceP86]

I don't think it would make much sense to have Rock AND Austin wrestle on the same show. If Austin feels he can work one more Mania match, why not hold off for a year so his first match in years isn't overshadowed by Rock vs. Cena?

I meant that as a possibility but good point.

Not sure what the 3 hour RAW will be like with Rock just hoping they actually start doing something with Morrison now that he's off the losing streak.

Morrison vs. Ryder vs. Ziggler for the US title at SS? Just a thought.

[TakerNGN74]

I meant that as a possibility but good point.

Not sure what the 3 hour RAW will be like with Rock just hoping they actually start doing something with Morrison now that he's off the losing streak.

Morrison vs. Ryder vs. Ziggler for the US title at SS? Just a thought.

I personally would love to see Morrison vs. Ryder vs. Ziggler for the US title at SS I think it could definately help out Ryder and Morrison further their momentum because lets face it Ziggler has all the momentum in the world right now and that is a good thing.

[Jaysin]

Is Morrison still face? I don't have cable and am far too lazy and uninterested in their current product to bother downloading it.

[Teh_Showtime]

yep and he just ended his ~3 month losing streak with a clean win over Ziggler (who has been getting a big push lately). JoMo and Ryder both have wins over Ziggler recently.

[milamber]

SD is on a roll. Sheamus v Christian was a great match. Fun to see Bryan standing up to Henry. Hunico, Epico (with Primo) v The Usos was a fresh tag match. The Barrett push continued against Orton!

[Teh_Showtime]

I have been loving Orton on SD but as of late he is really putting over EVERYONE. I wish they would use Cena in this way. Within the last 3 months Orton has lost to Rhodes, Henry, and Barrett and most of it was while he was world champ. Orton can do no wrong in the ring right now either, his matches have been nothing short of great.

[milamber]

The best they do with Cena is have him not get the pin in "main event" tag matches and try to put Zack Ryder over as a future hall of famer. Smackdown's focus on matches and on building up their midcarders makes it better than Raw.

[LoNdOn]

I went to the RAW house show in London yesterday and thought it was fantastic. It was great to see Kevin Nash in the ring. The Ziggler/Morrison match was awesome as was the Punk/Del Rio main event. Better than the RAW tv taping they held in their back in April.

[matthew222]

Figured out that on this day 6 years ago Eddie Guerrero died
He was a great wrestler and wish he never died :(

RIP Eddie

[supershot]

Figured out that on this day 6 years ago Eddie Guerrero died
He was a great wrestler and wish he never died :(

RIP Eddie

Agreed

[Jaysin]

I just watched No Way Out 2004 when Eddie won the title. I'll be honest, I got teary eyed choked up. The man may have had his demons, but by the end of his life he put all those behind him. I watched him from the time I was about 9 until his death 6 years ago(I'm 24).


His story telling in the ring was unbelievable. Even back before he died, if I watched No Way Out, I had so many emotions running through me after he won the title.

Such a great moment.

Championship wins don't feel like that anymore.

[sebsy]

Yeah, Eddie winning was a great moment. Even the Goldberg interference didn't take anything away from it for me. Only time since his and Benoit's wins that I've been so happy was Christian winning but that wasn't as special for a few reasons (no real build up due to Edge retiring, 5 day reign etc).

Isn't really anyone on the roster now who has been around for ages and never been a world champion, that I'd like to see win it, other than maybe Regal :D

[bigtplaystew]

Eddie's title win is absolutely one of my favorite moments in the history of wrestling. As you said, he had his problems but he was an incredible worker. This was what made that moment so special. Everyone knew he earned it. There haven't really been too many great moments like that.

He was a pleasure to watch. Miss him so much.

[sheepy]

Isn't really anyone on the roster now who has been around for ages and never been a world champion, that I'd like to see win it, other than maybe Regal :D

Problem with de-valuing other title belts so much is that you never have your massively talented guys going after non-entity belts like they used to. (e.g. Edge spending years feuding over the tag titles because they actually meant something).

The only place realistically you may get those moments nowadays is TNA cause they do put a hell of a lot of focus on building up the undercard.

[BurningHamster]

Random rant. Sorry to interupt the Eddie tributes, as he always will be the freaking man but this just got on my nerves.

Not sure if anyone has seen or commented on this or even cares but I stumbled across some content on the WWE website while looking for something completely different, it was about forgettable WCW workers.

Seriously, screw whoever compiled that. There is no way in hell Disco Inferno or 3 Count are somehow more forgettable than 90% of the current WWE roster. WWE has guys on TV now who I have seen within the last two weeks and cannot remember jack about but I can still remember stuff Disco and 3 Count did more than a decade ago. Just because someone isn't a main eventer doesn't mean they suck you freakin' bums.

WWE should stop trying to be snarky, that's the fans job you blubbering a-holes and it's annoying when they do it. WrestleCrap style dissing is A. pretty damn outdated and B. much better when it mocks the people in charge, not the performers themselves.

Okay .... I think that's out of my system now. :o

[sabataged]

Random rant. Sorry to interupt the Eddie tributes, as he always will be the freaking man but this just got on my nerves.

Not sure if anyone has seen or commented on this or even cares but I stumbled across some content on the WWE website while looking for something completely different, it was about forgettable WCW workers.

Seriously, screw whoever compiled that. There is no way in hell Disco Inferno or 3 Count are somehow more forgettable than 90% of the current WWE roster. WWE has guys on TV now who I have seen within the last two weeks and cannot remember jack about but I can still remember stuff Disco and 3 Count did more than a decade ago. Just because someone isn't a main eventer doesn't mean they suck you freakin' bums.

WWE should stop trying to be snarky, that's the fans job you blubbering a-holes and it's annoying when they do it. WrestleCrap style dissing is A. pretty damn outdated and B. much better when it mocks the people in charge, not the performers themselves.

Okay .... I think that's out of my system now. :o

I seen this same list. I thought it was pretty stupid. There are far more forgettable workers in both WCW and WWE then the people on this list. Aside from the cheesy gimmick I thought Disco Inferno was actually a good talent.

[Jaysin]

and the guys composing 3 Count were/are awesome.

[BHK1978]

I was a huge Disco Inferno fan back when he was in WCW.

I do agree with you he is just as memorable, if not more memorable than so of the people in the WWE now. I highly doubt that I will even remember someone like Darren Young ten years from now. However, I will always fondly remember Disco Inferno.

[Rone Rivendale]

I am completely biased on this based on the fact that Disco Inferno is my all time fav wrestler but.... WTF?

Disco was a multiple time T.V. champ, a former cruiserweight champ, a former tag team champ. He was shortly even a member of the Wolfpac!

[Hive]

Not sure if anyone has seen or commented on this or even cares but I stumbled across some content on the WWE website while looking for something completely different, it was about forgettable WCW workers. <snip>

I completely agree. I read your post and curiously went to check out the list, and was outright shocked. How can they call characters like Disco Inferno, Berlyn, nWo Sting, Zodiac et all "forgetable"? Hell, Jericho's bodyguard Ralphus was more interesting than half of WWE's current roster.

But once again, they find a need to take a misdirected cheap shot at WCW... how about letting the hatred go already, WWE?

[steesh07]

In regards to the Mick Foley show in Newcastle that I was talking about earlier in the thread. It was a really good show, lots of fun and was surprised at how many people there was and that none were under 18-ish (may have been a couple).

[angeldelayette]

Welcome back Mick Foley! He definitely looks different.

[steesh07]

I just marked out.

[matthew222]

King just said he had a Justin Beiber t-shirt :eek:

[GhostDogg]

"Boots to @$$ES"....


NUFF SAID.

(is it me or did the Rock look so much like a beast, that he BARELY WALKED??)

[juggaloninjalee]

The Rock looks so much bigger than he has ever looked to me.

Last nights RAW was lame to me though. Foley and Cena lack chemistry together. Am I the only one who thinks that?

[milamber]

Yeah, the Cole/JR and Foley/Cena segments were a bit lame. But there were actually some good match-ups compared to some recent Raw shows.

[justtxyank]

Random rant. Sorry to interupt the Eddie tributes, as he always will be the freaking man but this just got on my nerves.

Not sure if anyone has seen or commented on this or even cares but I stumbled across some content on the WWE website while looking for something completely different, it was about forgettable WCW workers.

Seriously, screw whoever compiled that. There is no way in hell Disco Inferno or 3 Count are somehow more forgettable than 90% of the current WWE roster. WWE has guys on TV now who I have seen within the last two weeks and cannot remember jack about but I can still remember stuff Disco and 3 Count did more than a decade ago. Just because someone isn't a main eventer doesn't mean they suck you freakin' bums.

WWE should stop trying to be snarky, that's the fans job you blubbering a-holes and it's annoying when they do it. WrestleCrap style dissing is A. pretty damn outdated and B. much better when it mocks the people in charge, not the performers themselves.

Okay .... I think that's out of my system now. :o

Thank you BH!

The rewriting of history that has happened since 2001 to make it seem like WCW was this wasteland where nothing good ever happened, was full of crappy workers, crappy storylines and a bunch of misery is crazy.

Disco Inferno was a character I didn't like personally, but he was better than a lot of the bland tans that make up WWE's roster today.

Furthermore, I think they list the Demon on that list when in another article they basically blasted WCW for not making the Demon into this big star.

The Crowbar thing made me angry as well. Crowbar was one of the best parts of WCW when he was there playing the psycho character. They took a picture of him in a goofy outfit that was not part of who he was during his time there. He was definitely memorable!

They also mention PG-13 using some snarky comment about how they should never have been around or something. They worked for the WWF!

[BurningHamster]

The Crowbar thing made me angry as well. Crowbar was one of the best parts of WCW when he was there playing the psycho character. They took a picture of him in a goofy outfit that was not part of who he was during his time there. He was definitely memorable!

They also mention PG-13 using some snarky comment about how they should never have been around or something. They worked for the WWF!

Yeah the Crowbar thing bothered me too with their comment about who would be scared to see him coming down the street or whatever. Come on, Crowbar had a hell of a look, good shape, crazy eyes, I wouldn't mess with him but I'd punch Kofi Kingston or Justin Gabriel in the face without a second thought.

[BHK1978]

To the victor goes the spoils I suppose. The WWE can write whatever they want because they won the war. We might not like or agree with what they say but that hardly matters.

I do find it funny that they spent all of those years not even acknowledging the existence of WCW, AWA, and other promotions. However, now that they have wiped them out they take shots at them.

[justtxyank]

Yeah the Crowbar thing bothered me too with their comment about who would be scared to see him coming down the street or whatever. Come on, Crowbar had a hell of a look, good shape, crazy eyes, I wouldn't mess with him but I'd punch Kofi Kingston or Justin Gabriel in the face without a second thought.

They used a pic of him all geeked out.

This is the Crowbar I remember:
http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/crowbar2.jpg

[sebsy]

Anyone else, like me, struggling to see where the other matches are going to come from at Survivor Series?

We've got 5 matches announced so far.

Unless Dolph is pulling double duty again by defending the US Title against Zack Ryder then I can't see what matches will be added to the 5 currently announced.

Of the superstars not currently announced in a match, there are no heels that I can see having a match, Drew McIntyre being the best of the bunch and he has barely been seen for months. The faces don't offer much more other than Daniel Bryan, John Morrison and Zack Ryder, but with no heels for them to face other than throwing in a completely random match for the sake of it, what the hell are they actually planning for Survivor Series this year? :D

[Fantabulous]

King just said he had a Justin Beiber t-shirt :eek:

His date probably left it behind.

[Hive]

His date probably left it behind.

:D

Nice one.

[Wrestling Century]

I know this is OT, but........

The WCWMondayNitroOnYT account has gotten deleted, and I can't find any other place to watch the nitros, thunders and PPVs from the nitro era. Does anyone know if there's another place I can watch them from?

[sebsy]

F,F and not to put too fine a point on it, S!

WWE.Com announce that at Survivor Series Dolph Ziggler will be defending his US Title against...... John Morrison.

One of the reasons I was most looking forward to SurSer was Ziggler defending and hopefully losing the title to Zack Ryder, and at the tapings for this weeks SD, Vickie announced it would be Ziggler vs Ryder.

WTF, WWE? Sort your shit out :(

[MrCanada]

I think whoever wrote the spoilers fro SD maybe got it wrong. I've also read that Johnny Ace "snubs" Ryder's petition and gave Morrison the title shot.

[bigtplaystew]

You guys are aware the Foley/Cena thing was supposed to be awkward right?

They "lacked chemistry together" but it seemed to do the intended task. I dunno, I thought it was pretty funny.


Rock was definitely beast mode. I thought the Punk & Show / Del Rio & Henry match was pretty good. A nice contrast of styles with a pretty awesome finish.

[Teh_Showtime]

I literally think Rock was there to save the segment. Who would think Cena would get booed so heavily in his home AND why would they waste the initial pop for the Rock like that?

[bigtplaystew]

I literally think Rock was there to save the segment. Who would think Cena would get booed so heavily in his home AND why would they waste the initial pop for the Rock like that?

The whole thing was an awkwardly humorous bit to draw attention to The Rock really. I don't see how his pop was wasted. He came out. Got a huge pop. Not really a waste as far as I can see it. I don't really know what you mean.

They're setting up a series of pay-per-views that will have the Rock / Cena storyline involved in a way. Some directly, like survivor series. Some probably less directly. But we're getting a real build to a wrestlemania main event so I personally dont see it as a bad thing.

It seems the strategy going forward is to go into wrestlemania with something legitimately different. Boos or cheers, Cena draws. It's a very "real" (for lack of a better or more accurate term) way to see his character right now. I think WWE creative saw this with the "Summer of Punk" storyline. Cena doesn't have to be the beloved character to be a meaningful main event player.

Many people love him. Many people hate him. Either way he's as over as over gets. So I think the plan going into wrestlemania is to address the boos rather than cover them up and pretend they don't exist. "This is your life, Jon Cena" kinda tried to put that over. Whether you agree or not is up to you I guess.

The Rock is still one of the greatest draws in wrestling history so to have his fans versus Cena's fans is something a little different rather than the tradition heel vs face setup of a wrestling main event.

Why turn Cena fully heel? Why miss on the huge sales figures he still pulls? Why turn Rock fully heel and destroy the immense popularity and drawing power he'll bring to wrestlemania?

Rather than shoving out the archetypal heel versus face promos, WWE seems to want to be doing something different this year. Just two interesting characters who don't like each other and people want to see fight. I'm interested.

[Teh_Showtime]

at one point the NWO was moving more merch than most of the rest of the company combined. Also before WM13 when he turned, SCSA was moving loads of merchandise. Not a heel/face issue imo.

[eayragt]

So, will Bryan cash in tomorrow? He's got the reason to now - he was going to wait till 'Mania but wants revenge on Henry. And because I've got too much time to think about Fantasy Booking, here's how I would do it:

Have Show / Henry early. Henry gets a hard fought win, after using a weapon after a ref bump.

Bryan cashes in - tries to lock in the LeBell Lock but Henry gets to the ropes. Bryan unleashes a flurry of kicks and goes for the pin... but Henry kicks out. Then we get the Henry domination, Bryan comeback and he just gets the pin. Give them 4 or 5 minutes.

After that match you need a cool down match, so bring on the Divas. After that Bryan can cut a promo explaining why he cashed in. He gets jumped by Henry.

In two weeks time Henry gets his rematch. Loses by DQ.

At TLC we get Show, Henry and Bryan. Bryan wins (could he be Edge's replacement as master of ladders) as Show and Henry concentrate on one another.

Between TLC and the Rumble Show gets his feud ending victory over Henry.

At Rumble Henry dominates to get back momentum, until Kane comes back (rehashing the Big Show feud will work better if it's not for the title this time).

Meanwhile, Bryan has a match that would never sell a PPV. Because the Rumble sells the PPV. He could face Barrett (if he somehow manages to win his feud with Orton), Rhodes, Miz (to play on their history, but I don't know how it would happen) or Christian. Out of them I'd like to see the Christian match.

Then it's to the Elmination Chamber, where Bryan drops the title (I'd personally want to see a face Sheamus vs a heel Orton for the title at Mania).

A three month reign for Bryan. He looks no worse than Punk or Mysterio did in their first reigns (which to be fair is no high bar to work with).

/end fantasy booking

Beats another option which is him cashing in and just losing.

[ZMAN]

at one point the NWO was moving more merch than most of the rest of the company combined. Also before WM13 when he turned, SCSA was moving loads of merchandise. Not a heel/face issue imo.

Yeah, I'm so tired of the merchandise argument. Has this ever been an issue in the past? I can't remember a time when Stone Cold, Hogan or Rock turned heel and it was like "d'oh what'd we do? his shirts don' sell" The only type of person I can see this rule apply to is an underdog like Rey Mysterio. The guy is like 5 feet tall and is limited on the mic, so ya, a heel turn would be disastrous. With Cena, the guy is your typical heavyweight, and could easily be a dick on the mic.

[Fantabulous]

I should be be shocked but I'm not...

Cena's big merchandise numbers are due to his young fanbase. Turning the hero of kids, whilst he is still hot, has rarely if ever turned out to be a good move because the kids turn on the hero and if that happens with Cena, well, apparently you do need to be a rocket scientist to realize that when you alienate the fanbase that moves your numbers, those numbers are taking a hit.

[milamber]

Enjoyed Ziggler v Sin Cara and Ziggler won for a change. Mason Ryan's looking like a beast, just hope they don't kill his momentum like they did with Riley.

Stopped watching NXT a long time ago but it's cool to see Bateman on SD. Shame Johnny Curtis got shafted because he was good on NXT as a face.

Kofi v Hunico was match of the night. Hunico and Epico have already made the tag division more interesting and they're impressive in singles matches, too.

I actually enjoyed the Divas match. AJ and Kaitlyn are hot so I'd even watch them in a silly angle. And Natalya's sharpshooter looked extra painful.

The "throw all the main eventers in together before the PPV" tag match was better than the usual fare. Orton still gets the biggest crowd pop but Sheamus is quickly catching up.

[Jaysin]

I watched Raw for the first time in forever this week and if they shove Twitter down our throats like that on every WWE program then it doesn't matter how good the product gets, I won't be watching. That was the most annoying thing WWE has done since shoving Cole down our throats. I propose a new drinking game, every time WWE brings up twitter we take a drink! Only issue is we'd be wasted in the first 20 minutes.

I don't care what's trending and honestly, it killed the Rock's promo for me.

Cena's facial expressions during the "This is Your Life" segment were priceless. Rock coming out to Rock Bottom Foley and then leave made me legitimately laugh out loud.

I liked that Truth and Miz got a little mic time in before getting their asses handed to them. I found myself sympathizing with them after enduring the Rock and Cena show all night.

Also, Hunico needs new attire. I get that he's dressing like a cholo, but he comes across like LAX's jobber cousin. Does Epico dress the same?

Kofi and Sin Cara vs Hunico and Cody Rhodes was pretty good though.

I suppose I'll give Smackdown a shot since I'm going to a friend's to watch Survivor Series tomorrow.

[BurningHamster]

I watched Raw for the first time in forever this week and if they shove Twitter down our throats like that on every WWE program then it doesn't matter how good the product gets, I won't be watching.

They do, WWE has a boner for twitter like you would not believe. As someone who doesn't use twitter, I find it tedious too.

Also I've come to the conclusion that I really dislike The Rock these days. Nothing he does is of the slightest interest to me.

[Slagaholic]

Just wait until they put a twitter ticker on the screen during the Divas matches.

It's coming.

[BurningHamster]

Just wait until they put a twitter ticker on the screen during the Divas matches.

It's coming.

It is now that you gave them the idea. I really want a CM Punk anti-twitter tirade, not his babyface stuff ... his vicious heel ranting.

[ZMAN]

I should be be shocked but I'm not...

Cena's big merchandise numbers are due to his young fanbase. Turning the hero of kids, whilst he is still hot, has rarely if ever turned out to be a good move because the kids turn on the hero and if that happens with Cena, well, apparently you do need to be a rocket scientist to realize that when you alienate the fanbase that moves your numbers, those numbers are taking a hit.

Hulk turned on us kids back in the 90's, and we still bought his nWo t-shirts. I guess I felt alienated, but I was still tuned in the next night. But I get it, turn Cena heel and WWE loses all its moneyz.

[ubernoob]

Hulk turned on us kids back in the 90's, and we still bought his nWo t-shirts. I guess I felt alienated, but I was still tuned in the next night. But I get it, turn Cena heel and WWE loses all its moneyz.

This wasnt a prime-of-his-career Hulk Hogan though.

[Fantabulous]

This wasnt a prime-of-his-career Hulk Hogan though.

Exactly. Hogan was no longer an idol to children when he turned and, in fact, his merchandise wasn't selling very well at the time. Cena is still an idol to the kiddies and his merchandise is still selling well. Major swing-and-a-miss from ZMAN.

[sebsy]

In part in response to eayragt's post further up the page, I have been wondering what could possibly happen with Daniel Bryan.

Wondered if he might come out and try to cash in after the Henry/Show match after Henry retains one way or another. He loses and that's it until the following Smackdown when he takes out Big Show with a chair, blaming Big Show for him being the first to fail to cash in. Say that he was going to wait until Mania but after Big Show handed him the briefcase a few weeks ago he has been thinking of nothing but cashing in and now he has lost the briefcase it is all Show's fault. Henry can move on to Kane? whilst Bryan has a feud with Big Show maybe.

Also wondering if we'll get a Kevin Nash/HHH segment at SurSer. Only 6 matches on the card, and the last time we only had 6 matches at SurSer, 3 of those were 5v5 matches.

Need something else to fill up some time as the Divas match won't last too long, and Henry vs Show won't last long in terms of title match length.

[ChrisKid]

I actually disliked Rock's promo because there was this and that "trending worldwide" WWE needs to realise telling us every 5 minutes what's trending on twitter dosen't boost there tv shows it makes them annoying and plus if I cared what was "trending worldwide" i would go on twitter and find out

[Jaysin]

I ended up going to a Carina and Adema show(guest list!) instead of watching Survivor Series. Kinda shocked no ones talking about it...

[FINisher]

A great Survivor Series thanks to the MSG crowd. Really good PPV, main event is on for 15min or so. Some great spots like the Divas match top rope spot and also Big Show's top rope elbow drop among few.

[sabataged]

finish off peoples elbow?

[FINisher]

Rock wins with People's elbow on the Miz. Kinda lackluster ending. Post-match turnbuckle taunt pops for Rock, Cena got boo'd all night. Rock Bottom to Cena at the end, Rock celebrates in ring as the PPV ends.

Really liked the crowd on this one. Punk vs. Del Rio was good and other matches weren't at all bad either. :)

[DaMegaFish]

Ooh hey look, I'm popping back in again. Just saw the end of the PPV, and I've got to say, although I know its not going to happen, I'd would've gone nuts for a Cena heel turn to end the show. I know Cena is supposed to be the tough as nails, crowd never gets him down guy, but I would have loved to see that be what turned him. Watching him tonight, he knew he was hated, but even after the match the crowd still just dumped all over him.

Really, any time in the feud he could have the easy turn by saying the old, "All I've ever done is try to give you the best show each and every night, and yet you cheer the guy who left you high and dry." Idk, to me that'd make sense and it'd be a subtle but still obvious change of direction for him where he just starts looking out more for himself and cuts a lot of the antics in his matches and whatnot.

[bigtplaystew]

great crowd, great show. I dug every single match. Thats right, I'm looking right at you, Eve Torres and Beth Phoenix. Great card from top to bottom.

Boots...to...asses.

[ZMAN]

Ooh hey look, I'm popping back in again. Just saw the end of the PPV, and I've got to say, although I know its not going to happen, I'd would've gone nuts for a Cena heel turn to end the show. I know Cena is supposed to be the tough as nails, crowd never gets him down guy, but I would have loved to see that be what turned him. Watching him tonight, he knew he was hated, but even after the match the crowd still just dumped all over him.

Really, any time in the feud he could have the easy turn by saying the old, "All I've ever done is try to give you the best show each and every night, and yet you cheer the guy who left you high and dry." Idk, to me that'd make sense and it'd be a subtle but still obvious change of direction for him where he just starts looking out more for himself and cuts a lot of the antics in his matches and whatnot.

Yeah, Cena running around as a face makes him look like such a bitch in these types of situations. It makes no sense why he can't be a heel, at least for this feud against The Rock.

[FINisher]

I think that how once Vince said that he sometimes makes plans and decisions that don't make sense in the short run but in the longer run people understand his decisions etc.. I think they might actually, finally, be turning Cena heel at Mania / post-Mania. Cena isn't really going anywhere anymore and whatever momentum he might get as a face always ends up stalling quite quickly because of the hostile crowd in some venues. The building up is just 100% for it. C'mon, The Rock's hometown at Wrestlemania and the focus on their feud has been on the crowd reaction the whole time.

[bigtplaystew]

What is a heel? Someone who gets booed? Someone who puts ovr babyfaces?

Isn't Cena getting booed? Didn't Cena (at least help) put over CM Punk? Is the old idea of what a heel is dead and done and they are just going into this years mania as is?

Who knows?

[nucleardonkey]

Honestly I loved Survivor Series but WWE really dropped the ball on 3 major points where they had the moment, momentum, and crowd response to finally solidify 2 new stars and reinvent 1 and they failed to do anything with any of them.

The crowd was hot all night for Zack Ryder and were literally begging for WWE to finally pull the trigger and push him but instead of doing so and either throwing in an impromptu match with Dolph for the US title or sending him out to replace Sin Cara following his injury they really did nothing with him aside from his "look I'm really here" moment where he came out really just to appease the crowd.

Then when Big Show took out Mark Henry the crowd immediately started begging for Daniel Bryan to run in and cash in and they had the perfect chance. Henry's down with an injury, Bryan runs in, hooks in a heel hook, Henry has no choice but to tap, the crowd goes insane, and Bryan looks like a monster slayer being the first person to ever make Mark Henry tap out. Then they could even build it with Henry complaining about already being injured, make Bryan look weak for pouncing, then at TLC in the rematch Bryan makes Henry tap again. Right there 2 months and 2 matches and WWE has a new legit main event star with little to no real build up but 2 incredible feats that he can ride on for months while he's built up officially.

Then through the entire main event the crowd was begging for a Cena turn and honestly based on Cena's reaction to their reaction to him it actually looked like it was going to happen. Cena for the first time actually looked like the crowd was getting to him during the final show down with The Rock before the Rock Bottom. Cena was teasing it, The Rock was egging it on, and the crowd was perfect to react to it. If Cena had just hit the AA as Rock got down off the ropes then posed over an unconscious Rock not only would he immediately be the top heel but he'd actually be relevant again for the first time in years.

On a side note....I'm begging Cena to please stop trying to throw a drop kick. I swear he has the worst drop kicks I have ever seen and it does nothing to help his case when he's trying to prove he can wrestle then he throws a drop kick that's about as good as a Rebecca Black song.

Overall it was a good PPV but it didn't have that MSG feel of being something truly special. It needed that one WOW moment and being the 20th anniversary of Taker's debut, the chance to give a possible future super star his first major title reign, the perfect crowd to make the top face into the top heel they had the perfect crowd to make any of those 3 moments (Taker's return, Dragon's first world title, or Cena's heel turn) into that WOW moment that makes MSG shows so special.

[1234]

and Bryan looks like a monster slayer being the first person to ever make Mark Henry tap out.

Were the commentators saying that Henry has never tapped, or is that something you just added? Because:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6UlQ1E-yJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiuWOvusSUs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEUli5XGbWE

And I am sure there are more.

[Self]

Not a WWE fan any more, but was invited to see the show at a bar, which sounded like a hoot. The Rock was awesome. Just amazing. Those arm drags. Also a big fan of Cena's facial expressions throughout the match. He knows his part, and he's going with it. Fun monkey flip too.

[milamber]

Morrison v Ziggler - These guys work really well together. Perfect opening match.

Eve v Beth - Top rope glam slam! The Divas matches have actually been watchable lately.

Team Barrett v Team Orton - Sin Cara's rocky start in the WWE continues. Not a huge fan of 5v5 matches but this one had enough action and twists to satisfy me. Sheamus going nuts on Swagger was weird but interesting. Good to see the heel team win with Rhodes and Barrett besting Orton.

Big Show v Henry - Again they put on a fun match. Didn't see that ending coming.

Del Rio v Punk - Great open match. Both guys were booked strong, especially Punk surviving the cross armbreaker and winning with the anaconda vice instead of the usual GTS. Love the crowd diving!

Awesome Truth v Rock/Cena - The first few minutes of the match were epic with Rock kicking ass and the priceless reactions of Miz, Truth and Cena. All 4 of them played their characters to perfection the entire match and the crowd was hot. Not only did it live up to the hype but it the best WWE tag match I've seen in recent memory. Sure, an Awesome Truth win would have been better but I can't say I didn't enjoy Rock winning the match.

One of my top 3 PPVs of the year. Solid all the way through with 2 good main events.

[Nathers7]

Great PPV, think that proves that a Cena heel turn will never happen though. I actually was expecting it when Rock kept taunting him but yeah I guess Vince doesn't have the balls do it. Cena desperately needs a character change in someway though, his younger fans will flock to Rock if they see Rock perform like that again.

Punk champion again :), hope he gets a decent reign. Barrett and Rhodes looked great aswell. Loved the boring chants during the Mark Henry - Big Show match lol. Feel bad for them though, they must have felt like crap hearing that.

[Nathers7]

What is a heel? Someone who gets booed? Someone who puts ovr babyfaces?

Isn't Cena getting booed? Didn't Cena (at least help) put over CM Punk? Is the old idea of what a heel is dead and done and they are just going into this years mania as is?

Who knows?

A heel is someone who does things that are morally wrong, think every person in WWE that gets booed more than cheered that's not Cena.

[Self]

To me, a heel is a character designed to get a negative reaction. Doesn't have to necessarily be morally wrong, although since the Attitude-era's reign of the anti-hero, that's the go-to move nowadays. Squeaky clean Kurt Angle was a heel. Steve Austin occassionally stepped outside of good morals, but was definitely a babyface. As far as I can tell, John Cena is being booked to be liked. He overcomes odds, appeals to children, teams with The Rock... He is meant to be liked. That makes him a babyface. How successful a babyface? That's another question.

I'm hoping he plays heel for his feud with The Rock, but whereas in the past I wanted his character to have a big character shift (ala Crow Sting) now I hope he doesn't change his character at all. Exact same dude, positioned differently. I thought his reactions in the main event were superb in contrast to Rock's. Rock is an adult ass-kicker. Cena is... There's something there that with very little shift, can make him a sickeningly sweet, pandering heel. I don't want Cena to become a bad ass heel. That would be counterproductive. I want permission to boo corporate-shill Cena, in all his rainbow tshirt glory.

[nucleardonkey]

Were the commentators saying that Henry has never tapped, or is that something you just added? Because:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6UlQ1E-yJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiuWOvusSUs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEUli5XGbWE

And I am sure there are more.

That's something I just would assume should anyone make Henry tap during his current run that the announcers would make a point to say....whether it's true or not. It would make sense too to make a big deal about anyone making him tap during this current run seeing as he's pretty much the unbeatable monster right now.

[Nathers7]

To me, a heel is a character designed to get a negative reaction. Doesn't have to necessarily be morally wrong, although since the Attitude-era's reign of the anti-hero, that's the go-to move nowadays. Squeaky clean Kurt Angle was a heel. Steve Austin occassionally stepped outside of good morals, but was definitely a babyface. As far as I can tell, John Cena is being booked to be liked. He overcomes odds, appeals to children, teams with The Rock... He is meant to be liked. That makes him a babyface. How successful a babyface? That's another question.

I'm hoping he plays heel for his feud with The Rock, but whereas in the past I wanted his character to have a big character shift (ala Crow Sting) now I hope he doesn't change his character at all. Exact same dude, positioned differently. I thought his reactions in the main event were superb in contrast to Rock's. Rock is an adult ass-kicker. Cena is... There's something there that with very little shift, can make him a sickeningly sweet, pandering heel. I don't want Cena to become a bad ass heel. That would be counterproductive. I want permission to boo corporate-shill Cena, in all his rainbow tshirt glory.

Yea, I worded it wrong when I said it but as you say during the PG era that's the way things have been.

I agree that Cena using this character could work in this scenario as he has The Rock to bounce off but what happens after Wrestlemania? Does Cena just keep the same personna, winning a few more WWE titles in the process?

[sheepy]

Yea, I worded it wrong when I said it but as you say during the PG era that's the way things have been.

I agree that Cena using this character could work in this scenario as he has The Rock to bounce off but what happens after Wrestlemania? Does Cena just keep the same personna, winning a few more WWE titles in the process?

Cena needs to turn heel fast. The problem is that most of the heels he's gone up against have ended up having to turn face as people end up supporting the underdog rather than the unbeatable Cena.

No matter how many times you can stick Cena in the ring with CM Punk and tell the fans to cheer for Cena, eventually they will switch and become Punk fans and boo Cena.

I really don't get the hesitation with turning him. Triple H showed how you can pull off being a heel and still move merchandise and draw crowds. If the WWE could pull off 6 months of solid story telling in turning Cena heel and elevating a face to go up against him it could easily be the shot in the arm it needs to get the ratings going up.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Overall it was a good PPV but it didn't have that MSG feel of being something truly special. It needed that one WOW moment and being the 20th anniversary of Taker's debut, the chance to give a possible future super star his first major title reign, the perfect crowd to make the top face into the top heel they had the perfect crowd to make any of those 3 moments (Taker's return, Dragon's first world title, or Cena's heel turn) into that WOW moment that makes MSG shows so special.

I think the last MSG show was a bit of a dud so I didn't think much of that, but I see what you mean. To me, the somewhat WOW moment was The Rock's performance(and maybe his promo). Last match of the night and he showed he still got it.

Solid PPV, and equally stoked about Punk winning the title.

[Jaysin]

The Entertainment Era has begun (http://www.wwe.com/shows/survivorseries/2011/alberto-del-rio-cm-punk)

[lazorbeak]

You guys are over-analyzing what it means to be a heel. A heel is meant to put shine on a babyface by drawing heat. All that other stuff is secondary. Cena was a heel when he put a shine on Punk this year, and most likely he will be a heel again at Wrestlemania against the Rock, considering the standard PPV ticket buying crowd and the fact that it's in Rock's hometown.

Saying he needs to "turn heel" ignores that if he went out there and did a more aggressive character, the same crowd booing him now would probably start cheering for him- kind of like they did during his original heel run. It would also probably take several months of heel-ish acts before kids realized he was a bad guy now and they should stop cheering for him unless he turned at a show like the Rumble or Wrestlemania, since the majority of WWE's audience doesn't watch every show.

But as is, there's nothing wrong with Cena's character right now.

[matthew222]

I just noticed something......its been about 80 Minutes and has Miz and Truth still not come? I mean reallY?

[ThatChizzle]

John Cena was a good face when he was first "rapping".....

Then WWE put out John Cena's Rap CD.....

If you have actually listened to it, you easily realize that John Cena is a fraud rapper. I think that is the reason why all the guys in the crowd turned on him. Yes his rapping was funny when he started it, funny in promos, but his Rap CD was terrible, and it shows.

Cena needs to drop his theme music and change his gimmick. He is loved by the kiddo's and the Ladies like his look, but most of the guys realized that he was a fake, fraud rapper and that needs a change...

On another note, I noticed that Vince McMahon is allowing "Air Boom" to break one of the "rules" in wrestling. Ever since the 80's, it was told over and over that every Title had to be defended at least once in 30 days.... well since Evan has been suspended due to his weed problem, they haven't defended it in 30 days....
I guess since "Air Boom" is the only tag team in WWE now, they can't actually strip the Tag Titles from them. It's not like they could put the Tag Titles in a tournament.... :p
Heh, Just Sayin....

[dvdWarrior]

I'm not 100% sure what to make of WWE's new gimmick of advertising things and then not delivering. First there was the Michael Cole Challenge, which was postponed for like three weeks, then there's Bodus Clay's debut, which has apparently been postponed also, and tonight, Jonah Hill was advertised to appear on Raw, and at no point during the show, do I remember seeing him.

Other than that, I found it to be a pretty good Raw, the Punk-Ziggler match in particular was good.

Just found that one thing a bit odd.

[20LEgend]

Have we seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzdJHeb9ns&feature=player_embedded

apparently the link came up during Raw last night.

People saying a Jericho return (I hope so.) Some "evidence" is the return is 1/2/12 and it was on youtube so... Youtube 2nd January = Y2J :p

itbegins2012 is the youtube account which is linked to the end of the world thing: http://itbegins2012.com/

pwinsider explain it better actually :p
During Raw one of the Twitter plugs, the graphic turned to static and listed a Youtube address. At that address was a video, which is building to a return at the 1/2/12 Memphis Raw taping. You can watch the video below:

[milamber]

Yep, no Brodus Clay again! Not happy. Raw was actually pretty good, though. And I disagree with Punk. His match against Ziggler was exactly what I wanted to see. So if Punk retains against ADR does that mean he'll face Nash at TLC? Wait a second, they didn't have room for Clay or Nash. They'd better make Raw 4 hours long next week ;)

Anyone catch the masked Kane promo. I'd like to see Kane angry at Big Show for taking away his chance at revenge on Henry and have them fight at TLC.

[sabataged]

Have we seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzdJHeb9ns&feature=player_embedded

apparently the link came up during Raw last night.

People saying a Jericho return (I hope so.) Some "evidence" is the return is 1/2/12 and it was on youtube so... Youtube 2nd January = Y2J :p

itbegins2012 is the youtube account which is linked to the end of the world thing: http://itbegins2012.com/

pwinsider explain it better actually :p


I am pretty sure it has to be Taker.

[Astil]

I am pretty sure it has to be Taker.

Id love for it to be Jericho just so he can feud with Punk and I can be happy.

[Nathers7]

Seems too creepy to be Jericho and too predictable to be Taker although they seem the most likely.

[juggaloninjalee]

Jericho will be back on Jan. 2nd 2012.

Kinda happy Kane is coming back soon too.

[SHaynes23]

So R-Truth got suspended 30 days. They must have added other things than painkillers and PED's to the suspendable list because the guys getting suspended don't really strike me as roid heads.

[soxfan93]

So R-Truth got suspended 30 days. They must have added other things than painkillers and PED's to the suspendable list because the guys getting suspended don't really strike me as roid heads.

It's synthetic marijuana.

[juggaloninjalee]

So R-Truth got suspended 30 days. They must have added other things than painkillers and PED's to the suspendable list because the guys getting suspended don't really strike me as roid heads.

Small guys take steroids too. It helps you recover from injuries quicker.

Although I am sure Bourne and Truth were suspended for marijuana.

Truth could do a form of steroids though. Who knows really?

[eayragt]

Cena being a face makes his matches with RVD, Punk and The Rock sooo much better. Sure, I get as bored as the next guy week in week out and would prefer a heel turn, but Cena / Punk would haven't meant half as much if Cena was a heel.

Sure, it's one payoff a year, but it's a massive payoff. And WWE work it well, as generally they know which arenas he will be a booed in and put him with someone (Punk / Rock) which helps get them over.

Rock Cena works better with Cena as a hated face rather than a heel.

[juggaloninjalee]

Cena being a face makes his matches with RVD, Punk and The Rock sooo much better. Sure, I get as bored as the next guy week in week out and would prefer a heel turn, but Cena / Punk would haven't meant half as much if Cena was a heel.

Sure, it's one payoff a year, but it's a massive payoff. And WWE work it well, as generally they know which arenas he will be a booed in and put him with someone (Punk / Rock) which helps get them over.

Rock Cena works better with Cena as a hated face rather than a heel.

I sort of agree. Cena and Punk made Punk cooler than he was because for once the basic WWE fan who was tired of Cena saw Punk how all of us internet fans saw him. He was saying what everyone who was sick of Cena was thinking. If Cena wasn't the opponent in that feud then he wouldn't have gotten as over no matter what he said and no matter who else it was against.

I also believe when Cenas truly gotten stale even among the younger fans they will turn him but that won't be any time soon. Plus the WWE likes to tease a heel turn for Cena. We all know Cena can work as a heel really well too. He is an amazing talent when it comes to controlling the crowd and there is no denying that.

[Moe Hunter]

"It's the end of the world as we know it", says that kid in the video. That can only mean one thing...


REM will get back together for a one-night-only concert on Raw!

[bigtplaystew]

I think the idea of an overt "heel turn" for Cena would be ultimately disappointing. I don't want to see cheesy "I always hated the fans..." type promos from Cena. That's just lazy writing.


I like that he's getting booed and that it's being addressed. He's portraying a traditional Cena character that's struggling with fan perception. I find that considerably more interesting than the guy who just makes an obvious heel turn and cheeses up the joint. I'd like to see Cena with a bit more attitude myself, but I'm talking evolving the existing character rather than change it completely.

I said it before and don't want to spend a ton of time repeating it, but I really like this angle going into WM28. It's different and new. I like what Cena's done for the past few months. His work with Punk was outstanding and did great things for both characters if you ask me. Unfortunately, it didnt give WWE the massive ratings boost they were looking for. But if they try to focus on good writing and developing more compelling and ambiguous characters (which is huge on TV right now) then I think they'll find more long term success with RAW as a TV show.

[Wrestling Century]

Hmmm, if what I've heard on the dirt sheets is true, John Morrison's contract will be expiring after the next Raw.

[Jaysin]

Hmmm, if what I've heard on the dirt sheets is true, John Morrison's contract will be expiring after the next Raw.

and if what I read is true and that TNA wants him to work a program with Austin Aries, then it can't happen soon enough.

[bigtplaystew]

and if what I read is true and that TNA wants him to work a program with Austin Aries, then it can't happen soon enough.

Morrison versus Aries? I'm in.

[milamber]

Another good SD. I really thought D-Bry had "won" the title!

[Rone Rivendale]

I think it was a test. They wanted to see how a crowd would react to him winning the belt. This is both good and bad.

It's good because the crowd ate it up. So obviously from a popularity standpoint, Bryan is ready to be the champion.

It's bad because when he does eventually win the belt, it won't have the same magic to it anymore because it's been done before (even if it was taken back).

[sabataged]

Another cryptic video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN9FWb0zKm8

I am 100% sure it is Jericho.

Apparently they have a twitter itbegins2012 that talks about Rahab the Harlot which is from a bible verse that discusses the Kingdom of Jericho

[matthew222]

Ziggler just beat Orton, wow, never expected that lol

[jjohns44]

A promo with Kane playing and his mask was shown with the words 'Kane Resurrected' I wonder if there's a chance he'll return with his mask as so many people have wanted for years...


I also think Miz's next attack if they want to go by 'people who held him back' the checklist would have to include Big Show, but I really don't see Miz being able to hurt Show too much, he'd have to use something that would ensure Show wouldn't get up.

[sanityisforbidden]

So not only did they pillmanize JoMo they gave him a concussion as well as a way to write him off. That scene/match what ever you want to call it was freaking brutal.

[jjohns44]

^ are they pretty much done with him because it seems like everytime the guy comes out to the ring he gets beaten to the point of putting him on the shelf...

[angeldelayette]

A promo with Kane playing and his mask was shown with the words 'Kane Resurrected' I wonder if there's a chance he'll return with his mask as so many people have wanted for years...


I also think Miz's next attack if they want to go by 'people who held him back' the checklist would have to include Big Show, but I really don't see Miz being able to hurt Show too much, he'd have to use something that would ensure Show wouldn't get up.

Judging from earlier, I'd say that Alex Riley is next as far as 'people who held The Miz back.'

[juggaloninjalee]

^ are they pretty much done with him because it seems like everytime the guy comes out to the ring he gets beaten to the point of putting him on the shelf...

His contract expired after RAW last night. The plan was for Brodus Clay to end John Morrison but switched to Miz last minute.

[Astil]

On WWE.com they were reference Jannety so I think he's done. IW bound no doubt, and from what I read maybe a fued with Austin Aries?

[juggaloninjalee]

On WWE.com they were reference Jannety so I think he's done. IW bound no doubt, and from what I read maybe a fued with Austin Aries?

I've read that they are going to feud him with Aries but I feel like that wouldn't be enough for him. If TNA was going to give anyone a push from the WWE it should be Morrison. He is better than Jeff Hardy (personal opinion) and will be recognized as a guy who was one of the top WWE guys in the last few years.

Personally I would love if he debuted feuding for the X-Title and won it. Then maybe bring in Joey Mathews and Melina to reform MnM after his X-Division Title run is up. They could win the tag titles and build on Hennigan's TNA success. Basically by next Bound for Glory he could have established himself as one of the top TNA guys and feud for the World Title thanks to Melinas help.

I think Hennigan could be a good heel with Melina by his side. He could play up his true feelings for how people talk about him and Melina. It could get over if he did it right. He could even be the possessive bf like Randy Savage and Elizabeth or Jeff Jarrett and Debra. It would work for him I think.

[OldStingberg]

I must say, I've really been enjoying the WWE lately. It seems crazy that the company of the last few weeks is the same company of the last few months.

Survivor Series was good. I thought it could have been great if they would have done more with Zack Ryder and more with the main event, but still, it was good, and it was easily the best PPV since MitB.

And the shows since then have been very good. Guys like Ryder, Barrett, Ziggler, Rhodes, and Bryan are getting smart pushes, Punk is doing great cutting promos against actual heels, all of the angles are simple yet effective, and they've been showcasing quality wrestling in the ring. I can't really ask for more. I hope this pays off for the WWE in the short term in terms of ratings, merch sales, and whatnot, because I'd like to see them continue in this direction.

[Astil]

I've read that they are going to feud him with Aries but I feel like that wouldn't be enough for him. If TNA was going to give anyone a push from the WWE it should be Morrison. He is better than Jeff Hardy (personal opinion) and will be recognized as a guy who was one of the top WWE guys in the last few years.

Personally I would love if he debuted feuding for the X-Title and won it. Then maybe bring in Joey Mathews and Melina to reform MnM after his X-Division Title run is up. They could win the tag titles and build on Hennigan's TNA success. Basically by next Bound for Glory he could have established himself as one of the top TNA guys and feud for the World Title thanks to Melinas help.

I think Hennigan could be a good heel with Melina by his side. He could play up his true feelings for how people talk about him and Melina. It could get over if he did it right. He could even be the possessive bf like Randy Savage and Elizabeth or Jeff Jarrett and Debra. It would work for him I think.

Joey's training at FCW so I doubt he'd jump, even if that'd be cool.

Also ... I dunno. JoMo's cool, but TNA's main event is ALREADY over populated. He could help make X matter again, if TNA truly wants that...

[juggaloninjalee]

Joey's training at FCW so I doubt he'd jump, even if that'd be cool.

Also ... I dunno. JoMo's cool, but TNA's main event is ALREADY over populated. He could help make X matter again, if TNA truly wants that...

I agree he could make the X-Division really stand out again. I just feel like of all the former WWE guys other than Angle and Anderson he is the best. Never thought Jeff Hardy or RVD were really main eventers. They were on the brink and stuff but weren't in my opinion credible as the top guys. Morrison is in that group but I feel he is/was better than both of them.

To me he is equal to Scott Hall 1995 basically... without the drugs and alcohol.

If it were up to me TNA's main event in a year would be...

John Morrison, Bobby Roode, James Storm, AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Pope, Mr. Anderson, and Samoa Joe

Then the guys who could float to main event down to midcard occasionally (Kane, Miz, and Big Show fall into this category in the WWE)...

Jeff Jarrett, Matt Morgan, Crimson, Abyss, Christopher Daniels, and Bully Ray

Morrison either way though could be really good for TNA. It also will give WWE some room to push other guys up into that position.

[jjohns44]

What a match in the main event too. I'm definitely looking forward to tonight's match with D-Bryan and Mark Henry. Guess this doesn't mean it's a MITB cash-in either, but another test of the water.
He really showed he could be taken seriously in his promo with Cole and Henry last night. I would've loved to see him put Cole in a Lebell Lock just to add to the hilarity of him getting put into the Anaconda Vice, but kickin Mark in the bad leg was just enough.

[OldStingberg]

Bryan was awesome last night. I really hope they play out a story where he gets increasingly frustrated about not being able to win the title before finally snapping and cashing in on whichever unsuspecting face takes the belt from Henry. I think Bryan as an intense, bad ass heel would be amazing. I'm much more interested in Bryan turning heel than Cena at this point.

[jjohns44]

^ haha and watch Cole would be like 'oh i like him now' if I were D-Bryan I'd be like 'bite me' at that point.

[bigtplaystew]

Bryan is definitely more aggressive and fun to watch. I hope they go with it as well.

I'm just hoping they push him to be at that status where he CAN headline wrestlemania. I love the guy's work. I'm deeply hoping for some kind of intense Punk/Bryan feud. The two have wrestled before in the indys but I'd love to see it on the grandest stage of them all someday. Probably won't happen this year but who knows? The brands are closer together now than they've been since the split so we'll see.

[milamber]

A good Raw, even if it was heavily angle-based. The WWE won't turn Cena so they do the next best thing -- have Roddy Piper try to make him turn on the Cena Haters. A little better than the Foley segment and I guess they must be building to something with Cena...

I like how they're using Orton to put over guys like Barrett and Ziggler while he's not in the title picture. I love the new bearded, aggressive, hypocritical Daniel Bryan.

Del Rio looked fantastic against Punk -- one of his best matches this year. 2 Championship matches in 2 consecutive non-PPV shows -- about time! A shame the US and Intercontinental titles aren't defended much these days.

[sabataged]

A good Raw, even if it was heavily angle-based. The WWE won't turn Cena so they do the next best thing -- have Roddy Piper try to make him turn on the Cena Haters. A little better than the Foley segment and I guess they must be building to something with Cena...

I like how they're using Orton to put over guys like Barrett and Ziggler while he's not in the title picture. I love the new bearded, aggressive, hypocritical Daniel Bryan.

Del Rio looked fantastic against Punk -- one of his best matches this year. 2 Championship matches in 2 consecutive non-PPV shows -- about time! A shame the US and Intercontinental titles aren't defended much these days.

I personally think they are going to have Cena go through an internal struggle about himself over the next few weeks. Right now he is treading water when it comes to his WWE storylines. He knows he is getting the Rock at WrestleMania so what does he do for the next 4 months? This is going to be one of the most crucial things leading into WM. He has to stay relevant with out actually feuding with someone since we all know he is going to WM to face Rock. I am just curious what they do with him at Royal Rumble? What's the point in having him in the Rumble since we know he won't be taking on the World Champ?

So that means he is going to need a match at Royal Rumble. Do we have him face Punk for the title to keep them both away from the Rumble? I think that's the best bet.

I also love that they are allowing Orton to look human instead of super Cena like. Orton has reached that level that he doesn't need the title or wins to stay on top. I like how he is elevating Barrett by feuding with him. I have liked Barrett since his debut on Nxt. I think the guy has all of the 4 tools. He has a good look, good on the mic, passable in the ring, and a passion to be in the business that drives a person to be the best. I really think Barrett, Sheamus, Miz and Cody Rhodes are the future of WWE in the next 3-5 years.

Del Rio did look good. One thing I noticed that I guess I never really paid attention too was how big Del Rio was. Especially for a former luchadore, this guy has some good size to him. I think Del Rio will be the future Ted Dibiase type. He is always going to be in that upper mid card range that can float back and forth between Main Event and Mid Card. I don't think he will be entranced in the main event scene like Cena, Orton, Edge or guys like that in the past.

[The Final Countdown]

What's the point in having him in the Rumble since we know he won't be taking on the World Champ?
When he won the Rumble in 2008, he used his title shot at No Way Out instead of Wrestlemania. They could have him say he'll do the same if he wins the Rumble again, as he wants to win the title so it can be on the line in his match with Rock.

[OldStingberg]

When he won the Rumble in 2008, he used his title shot at No Way Out instead of Wrestlemania. They could have him say he'll do the same if he wins the Rumble again, as he wants to win the title so it can be on the line in his match with Rock.

I think that'd be a really good idea, especially if the Rock got involved and cost Cena the match. That'd be a great PPV main event, really ratchet up the Rock/Cena heat, and allow a relatively long build for Punk's WM opponent without having them touch each other at the PPV before WM, really building the anticipation. Plus, if they really plan on playing up Cena's mixed reactions leading up to his match against the Rock, putting him in a match against Punk on the PPV before WM would really push that angle.

[juggaloninjalee]

Why not have the Rock in the Rumble too and be the one to eliminate Cena? That would get the crowd to pop and create more heat between the 2. Cena could then distract Rock so he would be eliminated by whoever... Miz or Del Rio or whatever.

[foolinc]

Why not have the Rock in the Rumble too and be the one to eliminate Cena? That would get the crowd to pop and create more heat between the 2. Cena could then distract Rock so he would be eliminated by whoever... Miz or Del Rio or whatever.

I'd be down for a re-do of '92 Rumble with Rock and Cena playing the role of Hogan and Sid.

[juggaloninjalee]

I'd be down for a re-do of '92 Rumble with Rock and Cena playing the role of Hogan and Sid.

Me too and it could happen in the middle of the Royal Rumble instead of the end so the focus at the end could still be on the winner of the Rumble. It would give the Rumble something to mix it up a bit.

[Fantabulous]

Or they could just have Rock show up as a non-participant rather than dilute his importance by having him be a secondary player in a match with a hackneyed cliched finish that Ray Charles, in his current condition, could see coming and will do nothing but obfuscate the issue.

[juggaloninjalee]

Or they could just have Rock show up as a non-participant rather than dilute his importance by having him be a secondary player in a match with a hackneyed cliched finish that Ray Charles, in his current condition, could see coming and will do nothing but obfuscate the issue.

That's why I said I wouldn't make it the finish of the match. I'd place it in the middle of the actual Rumble if I did it at all. Either way though I'd like to see Cena in the match and be eliminated somehow.

[Fantabulous]

The focus should be solely about Rock and Cena. Let's not could things with pointless 'creative' bullshit that would only be a detriment. Let's also not dilute, even more, the lure of Rock's return to singles action with yet another match that absolutely does not need to happen. KISS, kids, always remember that.

[juggaloninjalee]

The focus should be solely about Rock and Cena. Let's not could things with pointless 'creative' bullshit that would only be a detriment. Let's also not dilute, even more, the lure of Rock's return to singles action with yet another match that absolutely does not need to happen. KISS, kids, always remember that.

How do you want to see Cena used leading up to Wrestlemania? What would you do with him at the Rumble and other PPVs?

[milamber]

SD got off to a weak start with all the Xmas crap.

Highlights: Orton decimating Otunga in a street fight. The fun Battle Royale (heels working together and Sheamus v Hornswoggle). The Steel Cage match (though I wish they'd get rid of the door escape). Midcarders like Gabriel, Mahal and Kidd given much needed screen time.

[codey]

The street fight had me laughing a couple of times, most notably with the "Where are you going!?" present toss. Orton couldn't even keep a straight face after that one. It may not have kept with the whole viper character, but it was just a holiday theme episode aside from the main event, so I don't mind at all.

[LoNdOn]

The street fight had me laughing a couple of times, most notably with the "Where are you going!?" present toss. Orton couldn't even keep a straight face after that one. It may not have kept with the whole viper character, but it was just a holiday theme episode aside from the main event, so I don't mind at all.

I must have watched that moment back about ten times. I was crying with laughter. :p

[Hashasheen]

Oh John... Just bring back the Jorts.

http://www.sescoops.com/wrestling-news/wwe/pictures-john-cena-debuts-new-ring-gear-in-japan/attachment/002-9/
http://www.sescoops.com/wrestling-news/wwe/pictures-john-cena-debuts-new-ring-gear-in-japan/attachment/001-13/

[codey]

Oh John... Just bring back the Jorts.

http://www.sescoops.com/wrestling-news/wwe/pictures-john-cena-debuts-new-ring-gear-in-japan/attachment/002-9/
http://www.sescoops.com/wrestling-news/wwe/pictures-john-cena-debuts-new-ring-gear-in-japan/attachment/001-13/

"Nice jean shorts Ricky Bobby."

"Hey shut up man!"

Wonder who he lost the bet to.

[Jaysin]

Oh John... Just bring back the Jorts.

http://www.sescoops.com/wrestling-news/wwe/pictures-john-cena-debuts-new-ring-gear-in-japan/attachment/002-9/
http://www.sescoops.com/wrestling-news/wwe/pictures-john-cena-debuts-new-ring-gear-in-japan/attachment/001-13/

So he's wearing Zubaz now?

[MrCanada]

For those who forget just how great William Regal is... check this promo out... Please let us have this Regal in WWE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYWDsw3iaF0

[Craig Edwards]

He and the other two British guys should team up together.

[Rone Rivendale]

I've always liked Regal, but Ambrose is the one I thought looked better on the mic. I've been a big fan of him since his Indy days. I haven't seen alot of his in ring work but he is SO into his character that you wonder if maybe he isn't acting. :P

[Slagaholic]

So WWE Network launches April 1st in conjunction with WrestleMania. Rumors saying that WrestleMania will be airing for free on the WWE Network and that many PPVs will be airing on the network.

Sounds bloody brilliant to me.

[Hashasheen]

So... Lillian Garcia is back as a ring announcer for Smackdown. :)

[Wrestling Century]

So WWE Network launches April 1st in conjunction with WrestleMania. Rumors saying that WrestleMania will be airing for free on the WWE Network and that many PPVs will be airing on the network.

Sounds bloody brilliant to me.

What Satellite/Cable providers will it be avalible to?

[Killagy]

Kane bringing back the MASK?! So ****ing awesome!!

[nucleardonkey]

I think at this point they should just give up on shoving Brodus Clay down our throats. It may have worked if he debuted a month ago when it was initially announced but now he's just a joke. Unless he comes out and totally annihilates Cena in 2 minutes to the point where Cena is stretchered out the debut will never live up to all of this hype and he will disappear in far less time than it took him to appear.

[codey]

Honestly, though, I enjoyed the hell out of Clay's squash matches on Superstars. Dude looked like an absolute monster.

[nucleardonkey]

Honestly, though, I enjoyed the hell out of Clay's squash matches on Superstars. Dude looked like an absolute monster.

I've never seen a match of his but the videos they were playing actually had me excited for his debut. I thought he'd be a killer character similar to Umaga back in the day. But now I'm bored with him and he hasn't even debuted yet. They killed the momentum he had built up through Superstars and his videos on RAW.

[milamber]

That was one of the best Raw shows in the last few months. TLC has the potential be awesome.

[bigtplaystew]

I have one thing to say to masked kane: Why?

As Mick Foley recently demonstrated, most wrestling fans' nostalgia for all things "Attitude Era" can die pretty quick. I mean, I have no real problem with a masked kane. But I also don't think it makes any sense. In fact, it harkens back to a cheesier time with a silly gimmick involving Undertaker's brother that was so horribly burnt all over his entire body that he needed to be fully covered at all times. It was cheesy and dumb and so bad they scrapped it all together and Kane rose to enormous heights without the extra nonsense.

I like Glen Jacobs' work and will be excited to see him back regardless. I'm just not all that amped up about the mask comming back. Especially if it's going to be dumb and more back to the unrealistic supernatural Kane.

[MrCanada]

I like Glen Jacobs' work

this here makes you seem like you are just trying to be holier than thou.


I think a masked Kane is a brilliant idea, in that who knows if its a bad idea. Why do so many wrestling fans approach every possible anything with a sense of negativity? Even's Punk's great storyline in the summer had people saying "this will get screwed up, so lets crap on it now."

Wrestling has to be one of the few things that people consistently complain about creative decisions. I see it kind of happening with other things now as well, but no one watches House and says "they're going to ball this up, screw it, they all suck... They should replace Hugh Laurie with a younger actor with more charisma and a more unique look."

Take it for what it is. I'm sure it will either work, or not. Dont judge crap now that hasnt even been confirmed as to happening.

[nucleardonkey]

this here makes you seem like you are just trying to be holier than thou.


I think a masked Kane is a brilliant idea, in that who knows if its a bad idea. Why do so many wrestling fans approach every possible anything with a sense of negativity? Even's Punk's great storyline in the summer had people saying "this will get screwed up, so lets crap on it now."

Wrestling has to be one of the few things that people consistently complain about creative decisions. I see it kind of happening with other things now as well, but no one watches House and says "they're going to ball this up, screw it, they all suck... They should replace Hugh Laurie with a younger actor with more charisma and a more unique look."

Take it for what it is. I'm sure it will either work, or not. Dont judge crap now that hasnt even been confirmed as to happening.

I pretty much agree with everything said there. I remember a time back before the internet where me and my friends would all sit around on Monday night and actually be excited and talk about how great it was to see Sting take out 20 people with nothing more than a black baseball bat.

If that same angle was done these days though everyone would be jumping all over the fact that he just ripped off The Crow. Hell EVERYONE knew where he got the look and character and WCW certainly wasn't hiding that fact but no one cared and it became some of Sting's most beloved work.

I'd love to know when and why the switch took place from watching wrestling and enjoying the show to watching wrestling just so you can be miserable and complain about it. Is it because now we all go to sleep on Friday/Saturday nights instead of waiting up until 2AM to catch ECW (or in my case MCW, USA Pro Wrestling, Memphis Classic, NWA Wildside, AND ECW....good times, good times :D )?

[Fantabulous]

I think a masked Kane is a brilliant idea, in that who knows if its a bad idea. Why do so many wrestling fans approach every possible anything with a sense of negativity? Even's Punk's great storyline in the summer had people saying "this will get screwed up, so lets crap on it now."


Except the Punk storyline did get screwed up. At the time, anyone who even hinted at the idea that WWE would screw up the Punk storyline was ragged on for it, and they wound up being right. I know it's a comforting feeling to stick your fingers in your ears when people talk negatively so you can remain in your own little bubble where it's all sunshine and flowers, but history, especially recent history, shows that the people who give WWE the benefit of the doubt are far more likely to be wrong than those who don't and are critical from the beginning. You might find it annoying, and you might cross your arms and fume that they're just being negative, but they're usually right. And they were right with the Punk storyline. It did get bungled. So, swing and miss a there.

Also, why go backwards with Kane?

So WWE Network launches April 1st in conjunction with WrestleMania. Rumors saying that WrestleMania will be airing for free on the WWE Network and that many PPVs will be airing on the network.

Sounds bloody brilliant to me.

Any place perpetuating a 'rumour' that Wrestlemania will be airing for free is probably best avoided. The thing isn't even up and running yet.

It's a long way off, if it even happens at all, from Wrestlemania being on the WWE Network. Wrestlemania on PPV brings WWE over $20M in revenue every ear, and they light years away from getting even a tenth of that revenue through a WWE Network. Way down the road, probably many years from now, it might be a good move to put Wrestlemania on their network, but right now, it would be bloody stupid.

[lazorbeak]

this here makes you seem like you are just trying to be holier than thou.

Yeah how dare he use the performer's name! I agree with what he said though, both that Kane was a solid worker (he's a lot more limited now), and that the mask isn't something that's very interesting from a storytelling standpoint.

Smarks are always waxing nostalgic for reunions, comebacks, callbacks to 8 year old storylines, etc.- remember how outraged people were that Christian wasn't immediately inserted into a main event Hardyz/E&C feud 8 years after TLC? But the truth is regressive storytelling is the definition of preaching to the choir- it's saying "hey, remember this? Weren't these the good old days???" It's WCW parading out everyone WWF had under contract in 1988 no matter how many drugs they were on or how little they could do because by golly, people know who they are! It can get a cheap pop out of old fans but it loses its luster if it's anything more than a Kevin Nash royal rumble appearance.

There's people around today that don't even remember masked Kane or remember it dimly- people that have followed WWE's product from when they were kids in the mid 2000's to today. If you don't get the nostalgia, you need a story that's compelling enough to work without it, or the act gets old quicker than Hogan's last WWE run.


Anyway that's why it's perfectly justified to be a little skeptical of bringing back old ideas. It certainly can work, and I'd love it if it meant something new for the character that has been running short on character identity for the past few years, but storytelling should go forward, not backward.

As far as the Punk stuff, people in this very forum were very positive about that angle when it started, because it was good. And while it was also similar to an old ROH angle, it was exciting because it wasn't a nostalgia act for that old angle but something exciting that hadn't been done in WWE in years.

[bigtplaystew]

MrCanada, If you've read most of my posts about the WWE, you'll find I'm way more of a fan and a defender of the product than a critic. The stupid video game, ehh... I'm a little critical haha. But I'm generally a defender of the current product and a firm believer in the idea that if I didn't like it I wouldn't watch it. That doesn't mean I have to like EVERYTHING, and can't EVER be critical, does it?

I used Glen Jacobs' name. Not because I wanted to be -as you put it- "holier than thou" but because I wanted to make it clear that I enjoy the man's work as a wrestler over his career. He's been an excellent worker at the top level of the game and I have respect for him. I simply wanted it to be clear that I was not saying that I dislike Jacobs' work or his current character. It seems like no matter how clear one tries to be, however, someone generally takes it th wrong way and these kinds of misunderstandings tend to happen.

Back on point: I would love to see Kane back on TV. I just don't care for the old "masked Kane" as it reminds me of a cheesier time in the character's history. As Lazorbeak put it (better than I did) it leaves me with the initial impression that the character is taking a step back in a way.

That said, when he comes back, I'll be excited and I'll be watching. If it's awesome... I'll be very happy to be wrong.

[OldStingberg]

Wrestling has to be one of the few things that people consistently complain about creative decisions. I see it kind of happening with other things now as well, but no one watches House and says "they're going to ball this up, screw it, they all suck... They should replace Hugh Laurie with a younger actor with more charisma and a more unique look."

The comparison between House and Raw is a bit crazy. House, for the most part, has been one of the most well-written, well-acted dramas of the past decade, a drama that's stood head-and-shoulders above hundreds of other shows during that time.

Raw has had the wrestling stage to itself for pretty much the past 15 years, so as long as they deliver a product that entertains just enough people, they don't really have to worry about delivering a product that is that much better than their competitors, because they have no real competitors.

Of course the quality of House is going to be much higher. In primetime drama land, it's survival of the fittest, and only the fittest survive. That's not the case for wrestling right now, which is one reason why many believe wrestling is so creatively weak at the moment.

But even despite the fact that by almost all objective reasoning, House is a better program than Raw, fans of House still bitch about what happens. Sure, they probably bitch less, but that's because shows like House tend to have great actors acting in thought-out and reasonably well-written stories that are planned and shot months in advance as part of a larger, more cohesive picture.

I pretty much agree with everything said there. I remember a time back before the internet where me and my friends would all sit around on Monday night and actually be excited and talk about how great it was to see Sting take out 20 people with nothing more than a black baseball bat.

I remember a time like that, too.

Then me and my friends grew up.

I don't mean to say that adults can't be entertained by the WWE today, just that the standards for entertainment are different for 15-year-olds with no responsibility beyond an hour's worth of homework and 30-year-olds with full-time jobs, families, etc. Then add in the fact that there's many, many more options for entertainment on TV now than there were 15 years ago, not even including what's available on the internet, with video games, etc., and it means that the WWE has to step their game up if they want to retain their fans.

And they have, to some extent. They've done good work making the characters more interesting and relatable. But they need to improve on their storytelling, and the consistency and cohesiveness of it, if they want more kids to remain fans well into adulthood even when their standards for entertainment go up by necessity.

[bigtplaystew]

But they need to improve on their storytelling, and the consistency and cohesiveness of it, if they want more kids to remain fans well into adulthood even when their standards for entertainment go up by necessity.

Couldn't agree with this statement more. I love pro wrestling and WWE in particular for the type of entertainment it brings me. Now I watch more high brow television of course, read books, love film, etc. But for what it is WWE makes me just as happy now as it ever did. I'm not as (not so) mildly obsessed with it like I was in 1997, but as ODB said I am a grown up with grown up things so that would be... well... kind of silly.

But If I crticize one thing about the WWE is that they just could so SO much better with storylines. They do a good job now! Believe me! It keeps me entertained. I just feel like greater long-term commitment to characters and rivalries would be incredible. With decent writing, I feel WWE could be bigger than ever because their talent from top to bottom is some of the best it's ever been. I'm not taking anything away from the great legends of the past. I just feel WWE has incredible talent in the mid-to-lower card levels that if used properly would make a much more interesting TV show.

[critical-23]

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/sstwill26/meandCMpunk.jpg
Interesting note: this was early in the morning and Punk asked me "You don't mind if I don't smile do you?" Obviously I said no :D.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/sstwill26/meandmarkhenry.jpg

BTW the CM Punk pic was taken with my crappy phone so don't give me any crap lol

[Jaysin]

lol Mark Henry looks happier than Punk. That's awesome. I've heard good things about Mark Henry's personality.

Someone told me WWE is using dubstep in advertisements for WWE Network...ugh, looks like I have another reason to not want to watch WWE programming.

[critical-23]

lol Mark Henry looks happier than Punk. That's awesome. I've heard good things about Mark Henry's personality.

Someone told me WWE is using dubstep in advertisements for WWE Network...ugh, looks like I have another reason to not want to watch WWE programming.

Yeah, Mark was really cool. Very down-to-earth kind of guy...even talked about the backstage business stuff like I was a wrestler as well lol.

I got more pics on the way!

[bigtplaystew]

A couple guys i'm friends with were playing a show opening for a band Punkis friends with (believe me they'r eno big deal. right time right place kinda thing)

Anyway, they met Punk and tried to get a picture with him but he was kinda a douche nozzle. Rather awkward and borederline antisocial. He's noted to not really liking people. If you listened to Colt's podcast with him he makes it very clear and says the words, "I hate people."

It doesnt affect me because like any artist, I judge the work not the man. But it would pose the question: Why would you hang around backstage at a show with hundreds of people if you don't like... people?

[Linsolv]

Because that's part of the job. You don't get hired at WWE without being willing to make appearances.

[jjohns44]

Lesnar mentioned all through Big Show's promo at Smackdown? His appearance in WWE '12, hmmm perhaps it's nothing, but perhaps it's a sign of something? Who knows....

[Nathers7]

Lesnar mentioned all through Big Show's promo at Smackdown? His appearance in WWE '12, hmmm perhaps it's nothing, but perhaps it's a sign of something? Who knows....

Lesnar's the highest paid fighter in thr UFC and is fighting at the end of December in probably one of the most anticipated fights of the year. I would say it's nothing unless they put him in a non-phyisical role.

[critical-23]

A couple guys i'm friends with were playing a show opening for a band Punkis friends with (believe me they'r eno big deal. right time right place kinda thing)

Anyway, they met Punk and tried to get a picture with him but he was kinda a douche nozzle. Rather awkward and borederline antisocial. He's noted to not really liking people. If you listened to Colt's podcast with him he makes it very clear and says the words, "I hate people."

It doesnt affect me because like any artist, I judge the work not the man. But it would pose the question: Why would you hang around backstage at a show with hundreds of people if you don't like... people?

Wow...Punk was the complete opposite of a douche. Very friendly to all the staff (especially the ladies--the guy's a pimp) as were the other superstars. Surprisingly, Cena seemed anti-social...but then again it was 6 in the morning and he was rushing to get his tour bus lol.

And another note: I'm pretty much at the right height for the WWE!

[Jaysin]

A couple guys i'm friends with were playing a show opening for a band Punkis friends with (believe me they'r eno big deal. right time right place kinda thing)

Anyway, they met Punk and tried to get a picture with him but he was kinda a douche nozzle. Rather awkward and borederline antisocial. He's noted to not really liking people. If you listened to Colt's podcast with him he makes it very clear and says the words, "I hate people."

It doesnt affect me because like any artist, I judge the work not the man. But it would pose the question: Why would you hang around backstage at a show with hundreds of people if you don't like... people?

I've only heard Punk is less than nice if you're rude and don't show manners. Or, if you try and act like you know the business.

Then again, I've seen some REALLY rude fans try and get pictures taken with wrestlers. I don't understand why "please" and "thank you" are so hard. James Storm actually joked about how polite I was when I met him. Which was pretty funny considering my brother and Storm started making fun of me together. So fun.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Except the Punk storyline did get screwed up. At the time, anyone who even hinted at the idea that WWE would screw up the Punk storyline was ragged on for it, and they wound up being right. I know it's a comforting feeling to stick your fingers in your ears when people talk negatively so you can remain in your own little bubble where it's all sunshine and flowers, but history, especially recent history, shows that the people who give WWE the benefit of the doubt are far more likely to be wrong than those who don't and are critical from the beginning. You might find it annoying, and you might cross your arms and fume that they're just being negative, but they're usually right. And they were right with the Punk storyline. It did get bungled. So, swing and miss a there.


Even looking back on it, the angle culminated where it should've and looking where Punk is.. where it got bungled must seem arguably facetious now. Then, with Christian playing second fiddle to a top star... "they" were right yet again, I presume? He indeed got shafted big time, eh.


For the Kane issue, I would've only had a problem with it if Kane was in consistently greener pastures as of recent terms. Aside from last year and a few other moments, there's nothing much to shout about. The thing is, this is Kane's career in a nutshell... re-packaging him every few months with something different to see where that ends up. Only this time, it's gonna be with the mask. I see it as chapter 178 of Kane's rollercoaster of a career. It does feel hollow though because this time it's just "Kane with the mask!" as opposed to their last attempt when there was actually a teasing buildup around it.. only to be swerved into another result.

As for Punk, well I'm pretty sure wrestlers every once in a while are gonna have bad days(with the travel they're dealing with..), and they're gonna have days where they just can't crack a smile. I'm sure fan pictures weren't too jovial around the time the Raw roster was stuck overseas a few years back.

[OldStingberg]

Even looking back on it, the angle culminated where it should've and looking where Punk is.. where it got bungled must seem arguably facetious now.

What do you mean by this?

[bigtplaystew]

Phantom, I gotta respectfully disagree with you on Kane. Not trying to sound "holier than thou" or anything, I am a legit fan of Glen Jacobs' work. The dude knows how to put on a match and tell a story doing so. In my opinion, this is a quality many wrestlers lack in today's WWE. Their stories have to be told in promos almost exclusively while the matches are reduced to the "five moves of doom".

I'm speaking generally of course. I'm not inviting people to bring up examples of when a decent match took place. What I'm saying is that I feel like the Kane character hasn't been given much to work with. And when he WAS, I felt it worked on his end. The Rey Mysterio feud was very good TV. Then The Undertaker got involved talking about the Devil's due and all that nonsense. The Undertaker is another guy who works brilliantly in the ring. But his promos as of the last few years have done absolutely nothing for me.

Then they put Kane in some stupid angles that didn't really make sense. But his MitB run two years ago was pretty awesome. When they put the spotlight on him, I personally was happy with the result.

Anyway, point is, I don't feel Kane is one repackage after another. Or, in other words, he shouldn't be. The guy's a brilliant worker and in my opinion deserves a good angle and not a crappy re-hash that will most likely be forgotten in a few months.

I have a strong feeling he's being built up to be the guy to job to 'Taker at WM28. GOD do I hope I'm wrong.

[jjohns44]

Not sure what to think of Kane remasked. It'll make the fanboys happy who've been crying about Kane being horrid after being unmasked after all these years but once we've seen him unmasked it's a bit hard to go back to it. Still lookin forward to seeing how he'd be with it back on, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. I liked when he was first unmasked, and having done that he was able to fully unleash his wrath. His last run as the MITB winner and champ was great too.

[jjohns44]

Lesnar's the highest paid fighter in thr UFC and is fighting at the end of December in probably one of the most anticipated fights of the year. I would say it's nothing unless they put him in a non-phyisical role.
true, there is that. I usually take mentions like that as open doors for former wrestlers to come back if they ever wanted to. It would be a cold day in hell if they mentioned Benoit in WWE but Eddie gets mentioned(I know they died in two different circumstances, but they still died) and Macho Man you hardly ever heard a mention of him until his death you'd almost forget he was part of the company. They obviously won't come back yes but just to get mentions either dead or alive says 'hey we still miss ya and think about ya, if you ever came to us, we'd let ya in'

[bigtplaystew]

Like I said, if it's awesome... I'll be happy to be wrong. Glad to see another fan of his MitB / Title run though. I'm not saying it was nWo or Austin/McMahon, but it was decent TV and I liked it alot.

[Basmat01]

Just watched John Cena's new movie The Reunion and you know what? it wasnt a bad movie lol

[milamber]

Another good SD. Plenty of matches and they didn't resort to a tag match.

[Tha Black Phenom]

What do you mean by this?

That their plan looked like it was gonna round up at SummerSlam.. the supposed second big PPV of the year. The timing was very narrow with Punk leaving at MITB.. they needed a main-event for the PPV and what most people suggested here was a filler main-event in Cena vs. Mysterio. To allow Punk to continue his off-road shenanigans. But instead, when I watched SummerSlam and the promo for Punk/Cena II came up, it all made out to be an actual elaborate angle with time invested into it, a beginning, middle and fitting end.

I don't know what the hell they would've showed if they settled for an uninspired face vs. face match-up at a staple PPV. It's not that I think the angle was flawless, if it were up to me I wouldn't have had Del Rio cash in then.. it's just that there were little ways to go around how it actually went, is all. (unless you bring a prop (read: another worker) in the fray)


Then they put Kane in some stupid angles that didn't really make sense. But his MitB run two years ago was pretty awesome. When they put the spotlight on him, I personally was happy with the result.

Anyway, point is, I don't feel Kane is one repackage after another. Or, in other words, he shouldn't be. The guy's a brilliant worker and in my opinion deserves a good angle and not a crappy re-hash that will most likely be forgotten in a few months.

I don't know exactly what you disagreed with me on, unless it was how cheaply I made Kane's career sound. But to note I'm a fan of Kane's workrate as well, he is a solid worker to say the least. Just to me that's what his career comes across as, chapters of re-packaging bursts into relevancy. Full of stupid angles which you mentioned and genuine storylines where he made the best of them. Shouldn't be? Arguably yeah, a guy like him should've been given more to work with, but it's him who put himself in that positon and he's been quite comfortable with it so I won't knock.

[OldStingberg]

That their plan looked like it was gonna round up at SummerSlam.. the supposed second big PPV of the year. The timing was very narrow with Punk leaving at MITB.. they needed a main-event for the PPV and what most people suggested here was a filler main-event in Cena vs. Mysterio. To allow Punk to continue his off-road shenanigans. But instead, when I watched SummerSlam and the promo for Punk/Cena II came up, it all made out to be an actual elaborate angle with time invested into it, a beginning, middle and fitting end.

I don't know what the hell they would've showed if they settled for an uninspired face vs. face match-up at a staple PPV. It's not that I think the angle was flawless, if it were up to me I wouldn't have had Del Rio cash in then.. it's just that there were little ways to go around how it actually went, is all. (unless you bring a prop (read: another worker) in the fray)

I take massive exception to this. In fact, I think it's one of the major things wrong with the WWE right now: chasing short-term payoff (a SummerSlam main event) at the expense of a properly executed long-term story. Because the WWE did that, they essentially killed the Summer of Punk. And for what? Tens of thousands of buys for SummerSlam? Was that worth it? Of course not. SummerSlam pretty much completely and immediately killed the mainstream interest Punk had managed to generate in the prior two months.

And don't even get me started on the idea that Punk getting a comically tainted win over Cena at SummerSlam before being cashed in on by ADR with the help of Nash texting himself, and then Punk and Cena going off in different directions was somehow a proper end to that feud.