The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Fantabulous]

Thanks for correcting me. But to be honest, he seemed to do just as well without the mask on. In fact, he seemed like as good of, in a better, worker.

Here's the thing though, did La Parker ever lose his mask? I don't recall that he did, but it's unusual that they didn't go there.

Juvi did have some awesome matches later in 1998, and had a spectacular one with at Spring Stampede in 1999 , but like a lot of the Luchadores, it didn't really matter in the long run as they all spun their wheels in the midcard.

I believe La Parka never lost his mask because under the mask, he looks old, much older than he really is, so unlike with guys like Juvi or Rey, they couldn't market him as someone the ladies would go for.

[TakerNGN74]

Juvi did have some awesome matches later in 1998, and had a spectacular one with at Spring Stampede in 1999 , but like a lot of the Luchadores, it didn't really matter in the long run as they all spun their wheels in the midcard.

I believe La Parka never lost his mask because under the mask, he looks old, much older than he really is, so unlike with guys like Juvi or Rey, they couldn't market him as someone the ladies would go for.

Thats correct La Parka never lost his mask in WCW thank god, they did it to too many wrestlers back in WCW and if they were to do it to La Parka that would have sucked. Plus its possible that La Parka is even uglier than Psychosis.

[moon_lit_tears]

R-truth=dayum

[Moe Hunter]

If someone was mishandled by the WWE, there's many more worthy than Chavo. Lance Storm. Billy Kidman. Juventud Guerrero. Psicosis. Super Crazy. Taka Michinoku. All much more worthy than Chavo.

Juvi and Psichosis completely screwed themselves over. WWE cannot be blamed for their downfall.

[bigtplaystew]

R-truth=dayum

::nods::


So the final "he's coming" video aired. I guess the community is 90% sure it's Jericho. But the dirtsheets have been fairly wrong lately so I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if it's someone else. But it's Jericho. It's gotta be.

[milamber]

Ziggler title shot next week! He's going to lose it but maybe he'll win the Rumble.

So Kane's gimmick is the same as Cody's pretty much. Makes sense though: involves the crowd and their anti-Cena chants, gives Kane something interesting to do and keeps Cena occupied until the Elimination Chamber.

So next week we get Brodus Clay, Jericho and a WWE Title Match? I bloody hope so.

[20LEgend]

I can see Brodus going another week (and maybe a few more after than), unfortunately - I'd love to see him next week, which should be an excellent show, should.

I can't decide whether I want Jericho back or I would prefer it to be Ryback just to see everyone's reaction

[bigtplaystew]

It's not Ryback lol... please it can't be...

As far as Brodus, just have him come out and dominate Tyson Kidd for 2 minutes. How hard is that to do?

[20LEgend]

It's not Ryback lol... please it can't be...


I think I would die laughing

[Basmat01]

It could be Undertaker. Jericho seems to have taken the heat away from all the "Its Undertaker" comments when the video first aired

[bigtplaystew]

It could be Undertaker. Jericho seems to have taken the heat away from all the "Its Undertaker" comments when the video first aired

Like I said, if it's someone else I can't say I'd be shocked. I'm 85% it's Jericho though when you put everything together.

[jjohns44]

I think it's too early to be bringing in Undertaker, he seems to only be working Wrestlemania's now. If he did return it would probably be after the Rumble..

[bigtplaystew]

I think it's too early to be bringing in Undertaker, he seems to only be working Wrestlemania's now. If he did return it would probably be after the Rumble..

Undertaker's probably gonna wrestle HHH at WM I'm guessing.

Solely because HHH said that crap he did last week. Which bugs me, because 'Taker's beaten him twice. HHH was far more boring than the two Michaels matches. I'd rather see someone else but whatever.

[djthefunkchris]

It's Goldberg.:cool:

[OldStingberg]

Undertaker's probably gonna wrestle HHH at WM I'm guessing.

Solely because HHH said that crap he did last week. Which bugs me, because 'Taker's beaten him twice. HHH was far more boring than the two Michaels matches. I'd rather see someone else but whatever.

I'd rather see anyone else. HHH vs. Taker just feels so pointless. Obviously HHH isn't going to win that match, there won't be much of a feud there, there last match wasn't all that great and now they'll both be a year older with almost a year's worth of ring rust, and the crowd dynamics will be wrong. Fans want to root for Taker's streak at this point. I would hope HHH got the whole "glomming onto a popular babyface's heat" thing out of his system when he inserted himself into the Summer of Punk.

I've said before I want a new, young heel to feud with Taker and beat him at WM, but to do it in a way that honors Taker. I still think that's the best thing for the WWE. But if they want Taker's streak to continue, at least have him feud with a young heel and let that feud and the WM match help establish that heel at the top of the card.

Say Taker shows up as number 30 in the Rumble, eliminates Ziggler, but Ziggler gets back in and causes Taker to get eliminated. They feud for the next couple months, maybe with Ziggler eliminating Taker from the Elimination Chamber. Then Taker beats Ziggler in what would undoubtedly be an insane match at WM. Taker keeps his streak, WM gets a high-profile match guaranteed to deliver, there's an interesting non-title feud for the road to WM, and a young promising star gets elevated.

HHH vs. Taker, though, just seems like one of HHH's ego trips.

[Anggur Merah]

The last segment between Kane-Cena got me the urge to head for photoshop and edit a t-shirt template. :D

Perhaps this is what Cena will wear if he turns heel:


http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz295/The_Institute/CenaHeel.jpg

LOL. :p

[ampulator]

Juvi and Psichosis completely screwed themselves over. WWE cannot be blamed for their downfall.
I'm not too sure on Psicosis, but Juventud didn't anything any other wrestler that was "weird and crazy". But I'm not disagreeing on this point-it's just that my point is valid as yours, and that we are BOTH correct.

[bigtplaystew]

Agreed OSB. A guy like Ziggler or Cody or Barrett can perform well with him I'd bet.

[Jaysin]

I'm not too sure on Psicosis, but Juventud didn't anything any other wrestler that was "weird and crazy". But I'm not disagreeing on this point-it's just that my point is valid as yours, and that we are BOTH correct.

Juvi went out and did other people's finishers and after he was warned about it, he continued to do them.

Plus, he's on steroids and has severe drug issues.

*edit*

Also, I kinda hope the videos are for Jon Moxley.

[ampulator]

Juvi went out and did other people's finishers and after he was warned about it, he continued to do them.

Plus, he's on steroids and has severe drug issues.

*edit*

Also, I kinda hope the videos are for Jon Moxley.
That's Juventud being crazy, though. He's always been like that. As for the drug issues, he and how many peopl in the WWE did in the far and near past?

Like I said, before, he's correct, but so am I. He's right to say that the Juventud did causes himself a lot of problems, but it isn't like the WWE hasn't tolerated or even protected people like that before, even ones that don't make sense for them to protect.

We are both correct. It's not an either/or proposition.

[justtxyank]

Wanted to pop in to comment on the cruiserweight conversation. Chavo was a good worker in my mind and a hell of a nice guy. I met him a few times and he was always aces.

My top ten list for WCW cruiserweights would be:

1. Ultimo Dragon
2. Chris Jericho
3. La Parka
4. Dean Malenko
5. Juventud Guerrera
6. Psicosis
7. Rey Mysterio, Jr.
8. Eddy Guerrero
9. Blitzkrieg
10. Billy Kidman

I always loved Ultimo Dragon. Marked out big time for him all the time in WCW. I liked Rey Mysterio, but he always seemed SO small to me that believability was an issue. When he unmasked I came to truly hate him, so that really hurts his standing in my mind. I was much more a fan of Juvi and Psicosis.

[justtxyank]

That's Juventud being crazy, though. He's always been like that. As for the drug issues, he and how many peopl in the WWE did in the far and near past?

Like I said, before, he's correct, but so am I. He's right to say that the Juventud did causes himself a lot of problems, but it isn't like the WWE hasn't tolerated or even protected people like that before, even ones that don't make sense for them to protect.

We are both correct. It's not an either/or proposition.

Look, I like Juvi, but he did way worse things than "most other" wrestlers. It's not like he came into the WWE with a clean slate either. He'd been run out of other promotions for drug problems, including a drug and alcohol induced naked screaming fit outside of a hotel.

On top of it though, he couldn't sell tickets like some of the other guys with problems. Makes it easier to get rid of him.

[ampulator]

Look, I like Juvi, but he did way worse things than "most other" wrestlers. It's not like he came into the WWE with a clean slate either. He'd been run out of other promotions for drug problems, including a drug and alcohol induced naked screaming fit outside of a hotel.

On top of it though, he couldn't sell tickets like some of the other guys with problems. Makes it easier to get rid of him.
Like I said before, I admit, Moe Hunter was correct. But the drug and alcohol issues he had weren't anything new, or anything *Scott Hall* hasn't done before. As for his naked screaming, though, that was when he was in WCW, not when he was in the WWE. Yes, WCW released him. But he didn't do that while in he was in the WWE. Besides, he did something even something stupid for him-he smoked something laced with PCP, which I believe is not necessarily the drug of choice for wrestlers. But it seems like a freak incident more than anything else.

It's not like the WWE hasn't protected people for worse offenses, or protected people that didn't make sense, even on a financial level, for them to protect.

[justtxyank]

Like I said before, I admit, Moe Hunter was correct. But the drug and alcohol issues he had weren't anything new, or anything *Scott Hall* hasn't done before. As for his naked screaming, though, that was when he was in WCW, not when he was in the WWE. Yes, WCW released him. But he didn't do that while in he was in the WWE. Besides, he did something even something stupid for him-he smoked something laced with PCP, which I believe is not necessarily the drug of choice for wrestlers. But it seems like a freak incident more than anything else.

It's not like the WWE hasn't protected people for worse offenses, or protected people that didn't make sense, even on a financial level, for them to protect.

Juventud couldn't draw the way Scott Hall could. That's why Hall got leeway that Juvi didn't.

The truth is Juvi was a small hispanic worker who couldn't really cut big time promos, couldn't sell tickets like a main eventer and couldn't really be a big part of many main event promos. You add his terrible reputation due to prior bad acts and it's easy to see why WWE would fire him. He had a short leash. You can say it's not fair, but when you have screwed up so much in life people tend to give you a short leash. You want to stay employed you need to be very valuable or keep your hands clean. He wasn't and couldn't.

[ampulator]

But like I said it's not like the WWE hasn't protected people for worse offenses, or protected people that didn't make sense, even on a financial level, for them to protect.

[justtxyank]

But like I said it's not like the WWE hasn't protected people for worse offenses, or protected people that didn't make sense, even on a financial level, for them to protect.

Who have the protected who had as much prior baggage and as little financial impact as Juvi?

[ampulator]

Who have the protected who had as much prior baggage and as little financial impact as Juvi?
I meant it as a broader point. For example, remember when Scott Hall and Kevin Nash left the WWF? They still had some Wrestlemania bonus that the WWE could have given to them. However, this AFTER they told Vince they were going to jump to WCW. Guess what? Vince gave them their bonuses anyway. They weren't going to make Vince money anymore, and they were jumping to the WCW, so what financial sense is there? Also, do you recall that Vince gave money to Paul Heyman? For what? What did WWE stand to gain? Point is, WWE has protected people, even when it didn't make financial sense, and when it didn't necessarily benefit them.

[justtxyank]

I meant it as a broader point. For example, remember when Scott Hall and Kevin Nash left the WWF? They still had some Wrestlemania bonus that the WWE could have given to them. However, this AFTER they told Vince they were going to jump to WCW. Guess what? Vince gave them their bonuses anyway. They weren't going to make Vince money anymore, and they were jumping to the WCW, so what financial sense is there? Also, do you recall that Vince gave money to Paul Heyman? For what? What did WWE stand to gain? Point is, WWE has protected people, even when it didn't make financial sense, and when it didn't necessarily benefit them.

Two of the biggest stars in the business at the time being given contractual bonuses on their way out seems odd to you? Of course it makes financial sense. The last thing Vince wanted to do was do bad business by guys. On top of it, Nash and McMahon NEVER had a bad working relationship. They've been good friends which is why I laugh when people said Nash coming back recently was all about Triple H bringing back his boys. McMahon loves Nash and told him when he left he could always come back and have a job for life. That was good business because he believed in Nash's value to the company.

He gave money to Paul Heyman and ECW because he saw business sense in keeping the small promotion active, running shows and building workers. It didn't hurt that they offered a lot of competition to WCW.

None of these is even closely related to Juvi. A better example for you would be that they protected JBL for years despite him apparently assaulting people backstage, or Randy Orton sexually harassing divas. Problem though: they sold tickets for Vince.

[steesh07]

When is Karma due to return? Anyone have any ideas?

[Fantabulous]

When Scott Hall gave his notice to leave WWF, wouldn't you know they just happened to find a reason to suspend him for six-weeks, which took him off Wrestlemania XII, so he didn't get anything for that. Vince giving them their PPV money wasn't done out of anything other than because it was money they were owed. It wasn't like he had any legal basis to not pay them PPV money for shows they'd already worked on. Sure, he could have found a way to delay paying them or kicked up a fuss, but he didn't have much choice in the matter, so painting it as anything other than a contractually bound obligation is misleading.

As for Vince 'giving money' to ECW, that was about $1500 a week to Heyman as a consultant and whilst a nice gesture, ECW being without that money wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference in the end.

The argument that WWE have helped people out financially when they didn't have to, and had nothing to gain out of it, is true, but those examples are very bad ones.

[ampulator]

You see, I'm not too sure it was contractually guaranteed. Someone has implied (I forget who) that it was more of a "bonus" more than anything else.

[Fantabulous]

'Someone' doesn't know what they're talking about.

[ampulator]

'Someone' doesn't know what they're talking about.
I double checked.... Jim Cornette? He didn't outright say it, though, I think he suggest that they shouldn't be given, or at least question whether the bonuses shouldn't have been given.

[Fantabulous]

You work a show for WWE, you get paid. The amount might be questioned and whether you were 'deserving' of getting paid might be questioned, but you still get paid at the end of day regardless of whether people think you deserve it or not or if they think you got too much or not.

[ampulator]

You work a show for WWE, you get paid. The amount might be questioned and whether you were 'deserving' of getting paid might be questioned, but you still get paid at the end of day regardless of whether people think you deserve it or not or if they think you got too much or not.
That's not the point here, though. I don't really care that Hall or Nash got paid, (even if Cornette does). The point is, the WWE has done financially inexplicable things before.

[Wrestling Century]

That's not the point here, though. I don't really care that Hall or Nash got paid, (even if Cornette does). The point is, the WWE has done financially inexplicable things before.

Yes, but other than those examples, I can't think of any other times where WWE has done things that financially don't make sense. And like someone said before, those aren't really good examples.

[ampulator]

Yes, but other than those examples, I can't think of any other times where WWE has done things that financially don't make sense. And like someone said before, those aren't really good examples.
Maybe you can't think of any examples, but someone else can. Also, it's "your opinion" that they aren't really good examples. ;)

[Wrestling Century]

Maybe you can't think of any examples, but someone else can. Also, it's "your opinion" that they aren't really good examples. ;)

:p True, true.

[djthefunkchris]

Maybe you can't think of any examples, but someone else can. Also, it's "your opinion" that they aren't really good examples. ;)

You did all that just to get a totally different point accross!:eek:

[BHK1978]

Yes, but other than those examples, I can't think of any other times where WWE has done things that financially don't make sense. And like someone said before, those aren't really good examples.

Well there was the WBF, the XFL, and WWE Films (Not WWE Home Video but the actual company that puts out all of those crappy John Cena movies. Now granted I do not know if they actually make money at WWE Films, I just have to believe that given the quality of said films they probably do not make much of a profit off of it.).

[Jaysin]

I know I'm probably alone in this, but I really hope it's awhile before Undertaker comes back. I've been so sick of him for years. Not dealing with his boring promos and long ass entrance this year has been awesome.

[Basmat01]

Yes, but other than those examples, I can't think of any other times where WWE has done things that financially don't make sense. And like someone said before, those aren't really good examples.

WWE does pay for the rehab of ALL former talent regardless of who it is and thats something they dont have to do. I hear Scott Hall has run up a pretty high bill.

http://corporate.wwe.com/news/rehabilitation/summary.jsp

[BurningHamster]

Random thing that is annoying me lately.

Challengers are meant to come out first, champs second. WWE seems to be doing the babyfaces second thing whether they are champs or not ... but not even being that consistent with it. WTF??

[Apupunchau@optonline]

WWE does pay for the rehab of ALL former talent regardless of who it is and thats something they dont have to do. I hear Scott Hall has run up a pretty high bill.

http://corporate.wwe.com/news/rehabilitation/summary.jsp

This isn't inexplicable this is positive PR. They don't have to do something they apparently are doing out of the kindness of their hearts to counteract a problem long though rampant in the wrestling world. Now they get to say hey look we know there's a problem and we care we're gonna try and help out whatever way we can. So basically the money they pay for these rehab sessions is positive PR for their company, far from inexplicable.

[Jaysin]

Random thing that is annoying me lately.

Challengers are meant to come out first, champs second. WWE seems to be doing the babyfaces second thing whether they are champs or not ... but not even being that consistent with it. WTF??

Glad I'm not the only person that this bothers.

[ampulator]

I agree-It's good form to have come out after the heels, except when title holder vs. challenger. In that case, regardless of push or alignment, title holder always goes out last.

[Killagy]

Randy Orton Suffers Back Injury At SmackDown Tapings (http://www.24wrestling.com/randy-orton-suffers-back-injury-at-smackdown-tapings/)

Bad break for Orton, he's expected to miss WrestleMania. Wonder how badly the creative team is going to react to this.

[TakerNGN74]

Random thing that is annoying me lately.

Challengers are meant to come out first, champs second. WWE seems to be doing the babyfaces second thing whether they are champs or not ... but not even being that consistent with it. WTF??

Yeah it bothers me too and its really minor so it shouldnt but it does because I grew up in 90's and back then champions always came out last no matter if they were a face or a heel.

[OldStingberg]

Randy Orton Suffers Back Injury At SmackDown Tapings (http://www.24wrestling.com/randy-orton-suffers-back-injury-at-smackdown-tapings/)

Bad break for Orton, he's expected to miss WrestleMania. Wonder how badly the creative team is going to react to this.

Orton, Christian, Henry, Del Rio, Mysterio, and Sin Cara are all injured right now.

It's probably good news for Sheamus, though. I imagine he'll feud with Barrett now, which is certainly better than repeatedly squashing Jinder Mahal and doing bits with Hornswoggle.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Yeah it bothers me too and its really minor so it shouldnt but it does because I grew up in 90's and back then champions always came out last no matter if they were a face or a heel.

There were still some moments where they did differently, though.. if I remember, Rock came out first in his WM15 match against Austin. So overall I'm really not bothered by this aspect anymore. Though it would be nice to have the heel champ come out last more often.

Time to pull the trigger on Sheamus, can't believe how long that guy's been floating around in the middle for. I swear, it's been like over three PPVs this year where he stepped in for an impromptu PPV match.

[TakerNGN74]

There were still some moments where they did differently, though.. if I remember, Rock came out first in his WM15 match against Austin. So overall I'm really not bothered by this aspect anymore. Though it would be nice to have the heel champ come out last more often.

Time to pull the trigger on Sheamus, can't believe how long that guy's been floating around in the middle for. I swear, it's been like over three PPVs this year where he stepped in for an impromptu PPV match.

I don't remember who entered first at Mania 15 but sometimes I can understand why the heel would enter first even if I don't agree with it.

Yeah I really hope that they do something with Sheamus to make him relevant again (he still is just not as much as he used to be). Yeah him being thrown into impromptu matches at three PPVs is really weird and the fact that the Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan match that was supposed to happen at Mania 27 was taken off of the card the day of the show and made a dark match and then later turned into a battle royal. I wouldn't have minded it if they had just had them have the match (Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus) as a dark match prior to Mania but the fact that they turned it into a battle royal really made me mad. They should have just made that match a battle royal to begin with.

Sorry for the long rant.

[ThriceP86]

Time to pull the trigger on Sheamus, can't believe how long that guy's been floating around in the middle for. I swear, it's been like over three PPVs this year where he stepped in for an impromptu PPV match.

No kidding and now that Orton is hurt Sheamus definitely needs to be a main event player now more than ever. Something tells me one or more smackdown writers or staff have it in for him. I thought I heard a report about that a while back but never really knew why.

Anyways, should be interesting what they do with Danielson's WHC run. And yes, I still like to call him the American Dragon from time to time.

[TakerNGN74]

No kidding and now that Orton is hurt Sheamus definitely needs to be a main event player now more than ever. Something tells me one or more smackdown writers or staff have it in for him. I thought I heard a report about that a while back but never really knew why.

Anyways, should be interesting what they do with Danielson's WHC run. And yes, I still like to call him the American Dragon from time to time.

I have heard that someone in WWE creative didn't like Sheamus as well but I cant remember who it was.

[Fantabulous]

I have heard that someone in WWE creative didn't like Sheamus as well but I cant remember who it was.

It was Kevin Dunn.

WWE.com says Orton has a herniated disc and will need a few weeks off.

[ampulator]

It was Kevin Dunn.

WWE.com says Orton has a herniated disc and will need a few weeks off.
To quote Jim Cornette, "**** Kevin Dunn".

[Moe Hunter]

Like I said before, I admit, Moe Hunter was correct. But the drug and alcohol issues he had weren't anything new, or anything *Scott Hall* hasn't done before.

I know you're not arguing with me, and I definitely get the gist of what you're saying, but I don't think Scott Hall is a good example if we're talking about WWE (as opposed to WWF). I don't have the figures in front of me, but I'm pretty sure Hall was gone by the end of 2002 and didn't last as long as Juvi did.

I don't think we can fairly look too far into the past - the things Shawn Michaels did were pretty bad back in the day, but 2006 is a vastly different time to 1994.

[milamber]

I have heard that someone in WWE creative didn't like Sheamus as well but I cant remember who it was.

Sure he hasn't had a title shot for a long time but the last 3-4 months he's taken up Super-Orton's mantle with his winning streak, only marred by the occasional tainted loss, plus his DQ at Survivor Series when he lost his cool. If they gave him a title shot Wrestlemania it would make sense without much effort by the creative team.

[bigtplaystew]

Sure he hasn't had a title shot for a long time but the last 3-4 months he's taken up Super-Orton's mantle with his winning streak, only marred by the occasional tainted loss, plus his DQ at Survivor Series when he lost his cool. If they gave him a title shot Wrestlemania it would make sense without much effort by the creative team.

Yea I don't put too much stock into the dirt-sheet driven "this guy doesn't like this guy" stuff. That backstage rumor crap is just that: rumors.

Doesn't mean they're always false. But if I've learned anything reading books from wrestlers and listening to them in real life ("shoot") interviews, a lot of the crap they post on wrestling sites is basically made up garbage that gets passed around like Kelly Kelly ;-)

[BurningHamster]

Doesn't mean they're always false. But if I've learned anything reading books from wrestlers and listening to them in real life ("shoot") interviews, a lot of the crap they post on wrestling sites is basically made up garbage that gets passed around like Kelly Kelly ;-)

Oh man, where did you hear that Kelly Kelly is the new Missy Hyatt?

[Jaysin]

Oh man, where did you hear that Kelly Kelly is the new Missy Hyatt?

Nash and Orton both said in interviews sometime this year she has slept with a good portion of the locker room.

[Fantabulous]

Doesn't mean they're always false. But if I've learned anything reading books from wrestlers and listening to them in real life ("shoot") interviews, a lot of the crap they post on wrestling sites is basically made up garbage that gets passed around like Kelly Kelly ;-)
If I've learned anything from wrestlers books and interviews, it's that they often have an agenda of their own and aren't always honest. Still, gotta keep those fingers buried deep in your ears, right?

[bigtplaystew]

If I've learned anything from wrestlers books and interviews, it's that they often have an agenda of their own and aren't always honest. Still, gotta keep those fingers buried deep in your ears, right?


Not Fantabulous... with more sarcastic insults that have no bearing or insight towards the topic at hand.

Yes... words aren't always true. I guess we can agree on that.

[Fantabulous]

My favourite argument of yours against the perils of the nasty sheet writers was when you went on a lengthy tirade against Meltzer for lying and making the claim that Brock Lesnar was going to quit MMA and go back toe WWE; you were so outraged you even went for the all caps approach for some of it to make extra sure we knew how strongly you felt. Of course, the irony in that argument was very rich as you'd relied on complete fabrication to rail on perceived fabrication. Ah, those were the days. Whatever happened to Hive, anyway? He never seems to post anymore.

Orton made the remarks about Kelly Kelly but later apologize and said he was wrong to say what he did, so how much stock can we put in his opinion to begin with?

[moon_lit_tears]

The truth is that the fights and things said in the interviews are mostly fake to keep up the story. The fact is sometimes people take it to far, or actually get pissed.

You can't listen to most of what's said in interviews or press releases.

From what I have seen, even their *real tell all* books are about 60% fake.

Who cares how many guts Kelly Kellt slept with. Does it effect her job? No.
Does it show on camera? No.
Dies it really matter? No.


There was a rumor back in the day that Nature boy had a few of the ladies. People didn't make a big deal of it because that was his *thing*

Do people come out and say. OMG KANE HATES CENA WHY DOES HE??

It's part if the story, just like the interviews, twitter updates, and everything else.

[bigtplaystew]

My favourite argument of yours against the perils of the nasty sheet writers was when you went on a lengthy tirade against Meltzer for lying and making the claim that Brock Lesnar was going to quit MMA and go back toe WWE; you were so outraged you even went for the all caps approach for some of it to make extra sure we knew how strongly you felt. Of course, the irony in that argument was very rich as you'd relied on complete fabrication to rail on perceived fabrication. Ah, those were the days. Whatever happened to Hive, anyway? He never seems to post anymore.

Orton made the remarks about Kelly Kelly but later apologize and said he was wrong to say what he did, so how much stock can we put in his opinion to begin with?

I simply love the fact that you CAN NOT make a point without making blatant flaming insults at people. This is a classic example of how when you have nothing to argue with, you simply go into an off-topic insult.

How have you not been banned?

And Meltzer absolutely put that story out there. So I don't know what you're saying. He took it down later after he was "kindly asked to" according to Sherdog so I mean I dunno what you're getting at there. Oh yea, you're simply insulting me again.

[djthefunkchris]

Really, we as fans want to make sense of things, and rely on "insider" stories for that knowledge... even if we don't agree with how it effects the wrestler's, at least we get some kind of explanation as to "why".

I don't like gossip anymore then the next person. However, I feel weird about Sheamus as well, as he seems to be exactly what is needed for Main Eventing in the WWE. He's big, he's not bad in the ring, he can talk, etc.

I don't know if I said this before, but everytime I see him I keep thinking of Hulk Hogan and what his original gimmick was supposed to be. Not exact, but I can't help thinking of that just about everytime the Celtic Warrior comes to the ring.

In out of character scenes (like comic-con or whatever), he seemed to be an unbelievably nice guy on top of it, unlike alot of the other's... Seems to credit everyone but himself for his success.

Probably why hearing that someone doesn't like him in creative, hits a nerve and gets people going one way or the other... as it seems highly unlikely from what we have seen. We have no real knowledge of him other then his promotional ongoing's though.

[bigtplaystew]

Who do you think Shaemus should be ahead of on the smackdown side?

I have him as the 5th highest face on that side:

1) Orton
2) Mysterio
3) Big Show
4) Bryan
5) Shaemus

With Orton and Rey Jr out, I have him now in the top 3 faces of the smackdown side. Is there a title run in the near future? I don't know. But he's doing well. To say someone's "keeping him down" seems like a weird thing to say. The guy hasn't been a big factor in PPVs, but he's got TV time almost every single week for the past few years so I doubt there's anyone trying to can him.

[The Final Countdown]

Who do you think Shaemus should be ahead of on the smackdown side?

I have him as the 5th highest face on that side:

1) Orton
2) Mysterio
3) Big Show
4) Bryan
5) Shaemus
Isn't Rey on Raw? (Not that it matters much, considering some guys appear on both shows on a weekly basis now.)

[Teh_Showtime]

Yes Rey is on Raw, and honestly Id still put Sheamus over Bryan atm (I see them equal in terms of how over they are)

[bigtplaystew]

I put Bryan ahead because he's got the world title and all... but I see what you're saying. I wouldnt be shocked if Shamus has had more TV time int he past year.

[Teh_Showtime]

I havent watched SD in about a month, just read results and youtube a few matches, but Sheamus was getting the 2nd biggest pops on SD after Orton. I still don't think Big Show and I know Bryan aren't getting pops as huge as he was.

[bigtplaystew]

Then it even furthers my point. I don't see anyone "Holding him back" or anything. Probably just writers are focusing on other talent for the time being.

[Teh_Showtime]

"The time being" has been since after Summer Slam though. He and Christian had 2 unadvertised PPV matches and pretty much aside from the SvS match he has had no build to his matches. He is just floating with nothing to do, despite being one of the most over people on the roster.

[bigtplaystew]

Yes. I agree. A nice long feud with someone decent should be there for him. I just don't see him in the title picture right now, but with all the injuries maybe that'll change.

[moon_lit_tears]

I believe I can fly....:p

[jjohns44]

I am impressed with how over Sheamus has gotten as a face. When he was a heel and just starting out everyone just hated the guy and talked about how he'd be gone in 2 months, but I always had a spot for him, I dunno, maybe my Irish heritage loyalty to him or something. I like when he makes references to his ancestors too, has definitely become one of my "fave five"

with Orton possible on the shelf with a back injury might be Sheamus to be the one to carry the other 'big face feuds' while Daniel Bryan feuds with Show/Henry...

[milamber]

Drew McIntyre is back! I hope they do something worthwhile with him next year.

Funny how the promo for the mystery return said "The End Begins This Week" but we have to wait until next week's Raw.

Was that the WWE's first elevator fight?

Next week should be fun with at least 3 title matches. I bet only one title changes hands (Booker win the IC belt perhaps?). I think it's too early to slap the WWE belt on Ziggler but I suppose Big Show might get the Heavyweight belt back. Depends on who they want Sheamus to face at Mania (assuming that's what they do).

[moon_lit_tears]

Drew McIntyre is back! I hope they do something worthwhile with him next year.

Funny how the promo for the mystery return said "The End Begins This Week" but we have to wait until next week's Raw.

Was that the WWE's first elevator fight?

Next week should be fun with at least 3 title matches. I bet only one title changes hands (Booker win the IC belt perhaps?). I think it's too early to slap the WWE belt on Ziggler but I suppose Big Show might get the Heavyweight belt back. Depends on who they want Sheamus to face at Mania (assuming that's what they do).

Would like to see Booker win, then hit Cole with it.

From war as been seen Randy is out for 6 months. That sucks!

[jjohns44]

Brock Lesnar retired from UFC 3 days before January 2nd 2012...hmmmmm not to say it's Lesnar in the promos, but if it is Taker, then him returning just in time for Wrestlemania feuds, someone might be lookin for a good Mania fight, someone whose had awesome matches with Taker and has had some tension with him over the last years of UFC and backstage

[Teh_Showtime]

So obvious the 1/2-02 mystery man is Brock Lesnar. That fight was a joke
#ufcisfixed

@speewee

#memphis
12:25am*- 31 Dec 11

From chris Jericho. I think we can welcome him back

[Candyman]

Brock Lesnar retired from UFC 3 days before January 2nd 2012...hmmmmm not to say it's Lesnar in the promos, but if it is Taker, then him returning just in time for Wrestlemania feuds, someone might be lookin for a good Mania fight, someone whose had awesome matches with Taker and has had some tension with him over the last years of UFC and backstage

I had just come here to say that Brock Lesnar announced he was retiring.

There's no way it's Lesnar in the promos - Brock said that if he won this fight, he was going to have his title match and then retire, so he couldn't have planned to come back now. And the WWE wouldn't build promos around it if it wasn't a sure thing. Of course, like you said, it still opens the door for a Brock return...and in time for WrestleMania. It's funny because I just mentioned on another message board that if I had my choice of anyone my opponent for Undertaker would be Brock Lesnar, with no idea he'd retire.

But I will also say we need to be careful with the "Brock to WWE" speculation. He's retiring for serious health reasons, and because in his words he promised his wife and kids. Pro wrestling is easier than MMA, but it's still not easy. And it involves more travel, which he was unhappy about even before he had a family.

He could come back for WrestleMania, if not this year then in the future, but I'd be surprised if he ever came back full time.

[ampulator]

From chris Jericho. I think we can welcome him back
Chris Jericho is one cheeky motherlover.

[Jaysin]

Brock is a tool. I hope he never sets foot in a WWE ring again.

[bigtplaystew]

Dana White still has him under contract for another fight. Brock SAID he's retiring. But he stands to earn close to half a million dollars and I believe he has one more fight.

So I mean, Brock might do the "one more fight" thing still. Otherwise, if he performs for WWE under UFC contract, he'll probably have to give a cut to them. I have no idea how long his contract is for (google didnt turn up reliable results) time-wise, but I think we're more likely to see Brock in a wrestlemania situation NEXT year at soonest.

[eayragt]

As I want it to be Y2J but don't want him to face Punk until WrestleMania this is how I would play it out:

During Punk vs Ziggler both men go down. The Titantron fires up with a new promo, then then date Monday 2nd January, Jericho comes out, swagger down to ringside, grabs a mic a rips into Punk saying that he has no right to call himself the best in the world when he's clearly inferior to him and has been easily distracted during a match. Ziggler hits the ZigZag but Punk kicks out, they go back and forth until eventually Jericho interferes hitting the Codebreaker for Ziggler to win the title.

Punk / Ziggler have a rematch at the Rumble which Punk loses because of Vicky. He then manages to get himself into the Rumble, where he and Y2J are the last two, and Y2J gets the win.

Fast forward to Elimination Chamber and we get Ziggler vs Cena (trying to make his match with Rock a title match) vs Punk vs The Miz vs R-Truth vs Kane. Punk picks up the win. Move onto WrestleMania and we finally get a proper Punk vs Y2J match.

Now, my actual first thoughts was for Punk to win the Rumble match, but I can't think of three faces from RAW for the Elimination Chamber, so I feel Punk has to be involved. Not quite sure who Y2J would end up facing at EC, but as long as his first match with Punk doesn't happen until Mania I'm happy. Which means Punk could just retain his title, win the EC (with Y2J) before a first singles match at Mania, but running a 60 minute + Battle Royale without CM Punk or Daniel Bryan makes little sense - you may as well have at least one of them involved for 30mins+ to hold the match together.

[Rone Rivendale]

Trust me, it's not Jericho coming back. He made VERY clear in a rude tweet that he is sick of wrestling and it's fans and he never wants to get another tweet concerning wrestling.

I told him via tweet that he can kiss most of his followers goodbye since we, the wrestling fans, have PAID for him to live the way he has become accustomed to.

I never thought I would find someone in the business that I would hate more than The Rock, but I think I found him.

[Teh_Showtime]

Trust me, it's not Jericho coming back. He made VERY clear in a rude tweet that he is sick of wrestling and it's fans and he never wants to get another tweet concerning wrestling.


Jericho is the same one who said he was done with wrestling forever only to backtrack within an hour and say "just for the moment". He really isnt as bitter as he makes people think, he just likes to keep people in the dark on his future.

[Fantabulous]

Jericho is the same one who said he was done with wrestling forever only to backtrack within an hour and say "just for the moment". He really isnt as bitter as he makes people think, he just likes to keep people in the dark on his future.

People like Jericho and Nash always try to keep things secret or stay in character. Not that that's a bad thing but it does make it impossible to take things they say at face value. Although you obviously get people who, for some reason, still buy into everything they say. Like when Nash kept kayfabe about his 'suspension/firing' a few months ago and you had people on here who took him at his word even though everyone else was smart enough to know he was just keeping with the storyline.

[Wrestling Century]

People like Jericho and Nash always try to keep things secret or stay in character. Not that that's a bad thing but it does make it impossible to take things they say at face value. Although you obviously get people who, for some reason, still buy into everything they say. Like when Nash kept kayfabe about his 'suspension/firing' a few months ago and you had people on here who took him at his word even though everyone else was smart enough to know he was just keeping with the storyline.

Indeed. I've read both of Chris Jericho's books before, and his personality on Twitter is that of his character, and not of his real personality. I actually find it quite funny that some people who are smarks believe what he is saying on Twitter, when he is obviously in character.

[djthefunkchris]

Looking at the Globe, it could be talking about "Best in The World" and Jericho coming for Punk. Someone said slowing the sound down and you can hear that the boy's voice is Chris Jericho's. Someone else said you can see his name in the book if you watch it in slow motion, etc. The Clock, the countdown, the end of the world gimmicky approach, all sound like Chris Jericho.

Then there is the fact that there is a girl and boy in the video. The boy stands in the corner, like he's shut out in one shot, yadda yadda... For different reasons, people could think perhaps it's Stephanie and Shane... Although we would think Shane wouldn't be involved since he has his own seperate carreer.

Personally, I'm not getting too hyped for it, because I think it's just Goldberg.

[BHK1978]

I am not sure why there is such a huge debate over if it is Jericho or not. After watching the video it has become painfully obvious to me that the video is about the triumphant return of The Duke of Dorchester Pete Doherty. Why others refuse to see this, is beyond me...

[djthefunkchris]

I am not sure why there is such a huge debate over if it is Jericho or not. After watching the video it has become painfully obvious to me that the video is about the triumphant return of The Duke of Dorchester Pete Doherty. Why others refuse to see this, is beyond me...

He's still alive I believe. The guy that went "Toe to Toe" with Andre the Giant is coming BACK!!!

[BHK1978]

He's still alive I believe. The guy that went "Toe to Toe" with Andre the Giant is coming BACK!!!

Yeah he was elected into some wrestling HOF in April 2010. I remember when I was first getting into wrestling he was one of my favorites along with George "The Animal" Steele. Granted I can't tell you why that was the case but I always thought he was awesome.

[djthefunkchris]

George "The Animal" Steele.. I think that had to be one of the funnest gimicks for someone to play as. I remember my dad "calling" the shots and laughing. My dad has this "hee hee hee" laugh. "Uh oh ref, you better check over there." "What's he doing dad?" "He's eating the ring post padding, Hee hee hee." I would be like "Is he really eating it?" Then my dad would get this look on his face that was like he was saying 'good grief' and tell me "No Chris, this is wrestling, they're just having fun." Then turn back around and that laugh again "Tee hee hee". It was funny, because my dad has this pretty low voice, and the laugh, or that particular laugh is really high. Same laugh he had when listening to his old Bill Cosby records. I don't even think I was in school yet, at that time, lol. Hard to believe I can still remember that stuff. That's back when Lou Albino was still a wrestler, or known as a wrestler moreso then as a manager (The Sicilians!).

Good grief, how old are you BHK? LOL

[bigtplaystew]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/2011_Main_Event_Stats_on_Cena_and_Orton_Maryse_App ears_at_Wrestling_Event.html

I thought this was interesting. They say Orton actually had more main event television matches than Cena. How long until the fans start getting bored with him and HIS 5 moves of doom?

[moon_lit_tears]

DJ I loved George. I believe he was a collage professor before he started wrestling.

BHK is well, a year older than me, the numbers after his name does mean something. :D

[Wrestling Century]

I thought this was interesting. They say Orton actually had more main event television matches than Cena. How long until the fans start getting bored with him and HIS 5 moves of doom?

To be fair, I think that Orton's moveset has a lot more variety than Cena's move set, although Cena has shown that he can do more than his standard "five moves of doom" in big matches, like the Punk-Cena match at MitB.

[djthefunkchris]

To be fair, I think that Orton's moveset has a lot more variety than Cena's move set, although Cena has shown that he can do more than his standard "five moves of doom" in big matches, like the Punk-Cena match at MitB.

To be fair, anytime someone wants to poke at a wrestler's moveset, they just pick the "signature" moves and ignore any other move that was made during any match. For example, Cena's "Five Moves Of Doom" is just him doing his signature moves. He doesn't do them over and over and over the whole match, even if what he does before them is lacking or boring, it's not doing those same five moves. Thing is, once a wrestler has signature moves (at least in WWE), they all do those same moves at about the same time... end of match or just before getting screwed, or whatever.

It's wrestling, they do what they are told. IF they are supposed to be a technician, they do technical type moves (and somehow slapping someone on the chest counts). If they are supposed to be a brawler, they punch. I guess, they might be limited on what they are capable of learning, but somehow I don't think that has as much to do with anything, as we would think. It could be that a particular person can't do a match that they have to remember so many moves, but I doubt that's really much to do with it either.

[bigtplaystew]

I think Cena and Orton are both fun to watch. Especially in PPV matches. No one would have to convince me that they are better wrestlers than some of the negative nillys say.

I just find it humorous that, if accurate, Orton was actually on more TV main events than Cena. And I personally wonder how long Orton has until the smarks turn on him too.

[moon_lit_tears]

So apparently wwe.com had Orton out for a few weeks.

Problem. The injury they had listed doesn't mesh with the time off.

Two hurniated discs equates to surgery and about 6 months.

They really should make their injuries more....realistic??

[eayragt]

So apparently wwe.com had Orton out for a few weeks.

Problem. The injury they had listed doesn't mesh with the time off.

Two hurniated discs equates to surgery and about 6 months.

They really should make their injuries more....realistic??

Well, if Triple H can compete just over 2 months after "fracturing his back" ...

[milamber]

From what I've read on a few sites Orton's "injury" is part of the Barrett storyline and to give Orton few weeks rest. He'll be back before the Rumble.

[Jaysin]

The different percentages of my expectations for the mystery man tonight. Don't know how else to phrase that :p

50% sure it's Jericho
5% sure it's Shane McMahon
5% sure it's Vince
40% sure it's Undertaker

If it's Undertaker, I'll be letdown. I just want him to go away and stay away.

[Tha Black Phenom]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/2011_Main_Event_Stats_on_Cena_and_Orton_Maryse_App ears_at_Wrestling_Event.html

I thought this was interesting. They say Orton actually had more main event television matches than Cena. How long until the fans start getting bored with him and HIS 5 moves of doom?

Maybe a while, because Orton's actually laid down for guys like Ziggler, Miz, Christian and Barrett. (You could say Cena has too, but he's a longer lasting effect for obv reasons)

That said, I find Cena slightly more exciting to watch in the ring than Orton.

[OldStingberg]

Did you guys know that Orton easily has the best win/loss record in the WWE this year? I find that interesting because of the narrative that has developed regarding how Orton has been putting over so many guys. Don't get me wrong, Orton's certainly not burying guys, but the typical pattern has been for every one cheap win a heel gets, Orton gets two or three clean wins. That's not exactly ideal for Orton's opponents.

[djthefunkchris]

Did you guys know that Orton easily has the best win/loss record in the WWE this year? I find that interesting because of the narrative that has developed regarding how Orton has been putting over so many guys. Don't get me wrong, Orton's certainly not burying guys, but the typical pattern has been for every one cheap win a heel gets, Orton gets two or three clean wins. That's not exactly ideal for Orton's opponents.

Outside of the "obvious" times people were burried for a reason, most of the time people say "This guys burrying that guy", the term "Burrying" is being miss-used, in a big way. Poeple will say someone burried someone just because they won the match, which is improper use of the term. The term "burried" is whent they make the opponant look really weak AND makes them look really bad. A good example of miss-use of the term, is when they are building a storyline around two top Face's (say Cena and HHH), and they send out all the bad Tag Teams (one team at a time) to beat him up, and the face's overcomes the odds... It's part of a storyline, and it's done to make the Face look appropriately superior, not to burry the tag division... especially when no one in the tag teams involved were even close to the Face's card positioning. The fact is, if a Tag Team looks like they might have a chance, it's actually helping them, not burrying them.

Definately one of the terms that always urks me a bit, when miss-used. It's only possible to put someone over if you win more then lose. SO it is proper to say anyone beating Orton is being made to look more threatening, as long as Orton is still on top.

Let's say Undertaker all the sudden starts losing to all the other Main Eventers... He's not "Putting them over" if he is losing all the time... He's being de-pushed, but not really burried unless they have someone like Hornswoggle beat him legitimately.

MVP had a huge losing streak, that actually made him more popular and turned him face. This is NOT burrying him, although people were screaming (not here, as it's rare for more then one or two people to scream silliness here) he was getting burried the whole time. He honestly come out of the whole thing looking better then ever.

I read other forums, but I don't think I ever post outside of here. Alot more level headed people on this forum.

EDIT: Alot of other sights that post stuff, go by who they like, rather then what is really happening. That's why Orton is seen as "putting over" and people like Cena are seen as "Burrying others".

[bigtplaystew]

Follow Jericho's twitter today. It's been lolz.

[Stennick]

I hate this, usually I completely disagree with DJChris and his different look at things than the rest of the world. As well as usually I agree completely with what OSB says to the point where I have to check and make sure some alternate personality of mine didn't create an account and name it OldStingBerg.

This time though DJChris is on point that when Orton does something people view it was "putting over" and when Cena does something its seen as "burying". The only thing more strange than that is the fact that people think Randy Orton is entertaining. I think I can count on one hand how many of his promo's I've actually said "damn that was awesome". He's went through about seven different character changes since becoming a main eventer and I still think his RNN Updates was the most entertaining he's ever been.

Old Sting Berg is right though you can't really get put over if you beat a guy once and he beats you three more times before or after that. The idea of being put over is that USUALLY at the end of the feud you either win the big blowoff match or you put up such an amazing fight and battle that everyone including your opponent has to recognize you as dangerous, great, never say die whatever it is you're trying to get over.

I don't really watch the WWE anymore but they don't do this with any of their guys. CM Punk cut two historically great promos (I'm not even a huge Punk guy). Then he won the WWE Title in match of the year. Then he sort of randomly came back and lost the WWE Title without ever defending it once. Was Punk put over? Sure. Was Punk's momentum lost? Yes. Its sort of the two steps forward one step back booking. Was Punk in a better place at the end of that loss than he was before he cut that promo sure. Was he as white hot as he was after that first promo he cut? Not even halfway.

Its just the new way of booking. You have two mega stars. Orton and Cena. Beyond that you have everybody else. Guys like Punk, Del Rio, Sheamous, Henry, and anybody else will shine for a month or two and then take a backseat for a month or two or in some cases for good.

[Killagy]

Photo: Chris Jericho Spotted In Host State Of Tonight’s RAW (http://www.24wrestling.com/photo-chris-jericho-spotted-in-host-city-of-tonights-raw/)

Jericho Comments On Photo Of Him At Airport (http://www.24wrestling.com/jericho-comments-on-photo-of-him-at-airport/)

lmao, the "Gettysburg" photo had me rolling! XD

[ChrisKid]

I hope 2/1/12 could be anyone of these 3 people
1) Chris Jericho
2) Shane McMahon
3) Brock Lesnar
Will rage if its Taker though

[ShaunGBD]

3) Brock Lesnar


It can't be, who would have it been if he won his fight.

[GhostDogg]

gee...

Not that i am not happy for Jericho to come back...but..aww screw it.. I aint gonna complain..

WELCOME BACK JERICHO!!!!

[Wrestling Century]

Err.....something seemed "off" about that whole thing to me.

[Astil]

That was atrocious. And I love Jericho. He has to be swerving the crowd.

[GhostDogg]

Can someone PLEASE explain to me what the hell just happen? i mean that was one of the most POINTLESS returns EVER.


just when the E does something to happen, they have to go and messed it up. Christ, I am going to have to play TEW and get that "crappy" visual of what I just saw...

Thank WWE.

[Astil]

Can someone PLEASE explain to me what the hell just happen? i mean that was one of the most POINTLESS returns EVER.


just when the E does something to happen, they have to go and messed it up. Christ, I am going to have to play TEW and get that "crappy" visual of what I just saw...

Thank WWE.

There has to be more.

[Astil]

There has to be more.

Well nevermind. WWE fails.

[ShaunGBD]

This show really is for 5 year olds. this is one where I question why I watch.

[jwt13]

That is worst return ever. No words spoken. We don't know what he is taking, is he taking the WWE over? And last but not least


WHO THE HELL IS SHE???????

[moon_lit_tears]

lame!

[Astil]

lame!

I try not to do knee jerk reactions...but this. Even if it is a heelturn set up it's a bad one.

[Teh_Showtime]

Well I agree the return and saying nothing was stupid but it wasn't pointless.

He was gonna be a face when he returned by default so he just waited until they turned on him.

[Hashasheen]

So yeah... I think I'm going to cut back on the WWE and wrestling in general for a good bit. When ideas like that somehow make it past creative, there is truly no hope.

[Lostrelms]

That is worst return ever. No words spoken. We don't know what he is taking, is he taking the WWE over? And last but not least


WHO THE HELL IS SHE???????

Vickie Guerrero.

/couchbooker off

[moon_lit_tears]

So yeah... I think I'm going to cut back on the WWE and wrestling in general for a good bit. When ideas like that somehow make it past creative, there is truly no hope.

I quit after the Attitude era, just got back in over the past few months, but this is getting crappy.

Again.


Kane!

[Lostrelms]

The more i think about it, its brilliant.

He comes out, KNOWING the crowd will be on edge for every single word. KNOWING they want to hear him speak.

KNOWING... that his role isnt as a face, its as a heel, he simply plays it up until everyone gets tired of it. and goes to the back.

Effectivly, he spent 10 minutes to transition from returning HOT babyface to an extremely hated heel.

Your reactions? thats what he wanted. It just makes to much sense.

[crownsy]

I quit after the Attitude era, just got back in over the past few months, but this is getting crappy.

Again.


Kane!

God I love the internet. Wwe gets bashed here every week for not booking long term angles, but one blatantly obvious multiweek angle is set up with Y2J and it's pooped on.

God forbid you wait a week to find out what the story will be eh?

P.s soooo blatant it's going to be a "I came back to find you people just as gullible as ever, just as she said I would" setup.

[Astil]

God I love the internet. Wwe gets bashed here every week for not booking long term angles, but one blatantly obvious multiweek angle is set up with Y2J and it's pooped on.

God forbid you wait a week to find out what the story will be eh?

P.s soooo blatant it's going to be a "I came back to find you people just as gullible as ever, just as she said I would" setup.

so you think those dark brooding promos should lead to that debut then?

[jwt13]

God I love the internet. Wwe gets bashed here every week for not booking long term angles, but one blatantly obvious multiweek angle is set up with Y2J and it's pooped on.

God forbid you wait a week to find out what the story will be eh?

P.s soooo blatant it's going to be a "I came back to find you people just as gullible as ever, just as she said I would" setup.

I know you're a WWE mark that will defend what the E does no matter what. But they build up this for about 5 to 6 weeks, having a good hype up of a man and a women comeing...so we get Y2J which is cool even though he is nothing like the dark minded hype videos that were shown, but we don't get the women that so called told him to come back. WWE failed at this big time.

[Franchise22]

The more i think about it, its brilliant.

He comes out, KNOWING the crowd will be on edge for every single word. KNOWING they want to hear him speak.

KNOWING... that his role isnt as a face, its as a heel, he simply plays it up until everyone gets tired of it. and goes to the back.

Effectivly, he spent 10 minutes to transition from returning HOT babyface to an extremely hated heel.

Your reactions? thats what he wanted. It just makes to much sense.

THIS.

he was clearly over the top imo ON PURPOSE. when he dropped the mic i was sold on the set up. then when he was at the top of the ramp, he was smiling then a devious smirk. clearly a set up.

[tjb000]

Coming from someone who really isn't that high on WWE...

Isn't it a goal to give more questions than answers? Seems like everyone wanted answers ASAP. Do you guys not watch WWE? This is what they do. They always give more questions than answers. And sometimes, they end up not answering a lot of the questions, but how would you know that since Jericho JUST returned and it's the beginning of the angle.

EDIT: FTR, I thought it got way too uncomfortable. But I too thought it looked like Jericho turned heel there at the end. If it was a heel turn, it was pretty damn good. Pretty awesome to return with huge babyface pops and turn heel without saying a word or attacking someone.

[Wrestling Century]

The more i think about it, its brilliant.

He comes out, KNOWING the crowd will be on edge for every single word. KNOWING they want to hear him speak.

KNOWING... that his role isnt as a face, its as a heel, he simply plays it up until everyone gets tired of it. and goes to the back.

Effectivly, he spent 10 minutes to transition from returning HOT babyface to an extremely hated heel.

Your reactions? thats what he wanted. It just makes to much sense.

Actually, that does make sense. With the way that he talked on Twitter, he obviously had two agendas:

1. Try and make it so that his return had as much suprise as possible
and
2. To set up a basis for a heel turn, saying that he hated the fans on Twitter and then coming back like this.

[20LEgend]

Lol, I stayed up for that.

The woman could be metaphorical, in fact I'm convinced based on some "theory" I read the other week.

I say don't crap on the whole thing BUT for the build up, on the night, it was dissapointing. I'm convinced come 2nd (Time Zone :p) April 2012 watching Punk vs. Jericho at Wrestlemania I'll be happy, I hope.

I thought Jericho was going to turn on the crowd there and then but he could just keep trolling until someone question what the hell he is doing! :D

[moon_lit_tears]

so you think those dark brooding promos should lead to that debut then?
<3.

I know you're a WWE mark that will defend what the E does no matter what. But they build up this for about 5 to 6 weeks, having a good hype up of a man and a women comeing...so we get Y2J which is cool even though he is nothing like the dark minded hype videos that were shown, but we don't get the women that so called told him to come back. WWE failed at this big time.

See I'd have been okay with it being him if it fit, but they blew it. Yup. I agree.

Coming from someone who really isn't that high on WWE...

Isn't it a goal to give more questions than answers? Seems like everyone wanted answers ASAP. Do you guys not watch WWE? This is what they do. They always give more questions than answers. And sometimes, they end up not answering a lot of the questions, but how would you know that since Jericho JUST returned and it's the beginning of the angle.

But it's like.....hearing the ice cream truck on a hot assed summer day, and you find it's the neighborhood idiot being stupid. You feel let down. Well at least that's how I felt.

[bigtplaystew]

"I'm going to get arrested for animal cruelty... and you wanna' know why? Cause I'm gonna' beat you like a b****"

[moon_lit_tears]

"I'm going to get arrested for animal cruelty... and you wanna' know why? Cause I'm gonna' beat you like a b****"

Quack quack.

[tjb000]

But it's like.....hearing the ice cream truck on a hot assed summer day, and you find it's the neighborhood idiot being stupid. You feel let down. Well at least that's how I felt.

Oh, I'm not trying to argue with how people felt. If you were let down, so be it. I wasn't exactly impressed myself at first. But I'm mostly trying to say is that the goal was to give more questions than answers. Seems they certainly did that.

If you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. I just recommend to give it more time before it's crapped on. It might continue to suck, who knows? But you won't know if you don't give it a shot.

:)

[Teh_Showtime]

It is human nature to want instant satisfaction, hence wrestling fans won't let an angle play out and instead crap on it within an hour of it starting.

[moon_lit_tears]

Oh, I'm not trying to argue with how people felt. If you were let down, so be it. I wasn't exactly impressed myself at first. But I'm mostly trying to say is that the goal was to give more questions than answers. Seems they certainly did that.

If you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. I just recommend to give it more time before it's crapped on. It might continue to suck, who knows? But you won't know if you don't give it a shot.

:)

Flashbacks of high school, you boys and your peer pressure. :D

Yeah I understand that, I've just never been a huge Y2J fan, and some of the angles they have used lately have me wondering who writes this stuff.

[jwt13]

Flashbacks of high school, you boys and your peer pressure. :D

Yeah I understand that, I've just never been a huge Y2J fan, and some of the angles they have used lately have me wondering who writes this stuff.

Russo

[bigtplaystew]

Modern wrestling mentality is "Give me what I want! NOW!"

And typically, WWE gives into this. And they should.


Jericho comes from a more old school mentality of "leave them wanting more"


Not saying either is right or wrong. It just is what it is.

I'm not upset or anything because I'm a grown up and it's just nice to have one of my favorite workers ever back on TV. I let angles play out and hope for a more long term payoff, even if I don't always get it. But I understand disappointment others seem to have, even if I disagree with it.

Obviously people were expecting something big. At least an announcement of who he'd be feuding with in the coming months. But... more mystery keeps people talking.

Always leave 'em wanting more.

[ZMAN]

Jericho's return was amazing. IWC dorks will either love it or hate it. I'm more looking forward to the people who hate it, it's going to be hilarious to see how Jericho tortures them. Do your magic, Chris.

[tjb000]

Flashbacks of high school, you boys and your peer pressure. :D

Yeah I understand that, I've just never been a huge Y2J fan, and some of the angles they have used lately have me wondering who writes this stuff.

Oh c'mon... you KNOW you want to give it shot. It's not going to hurt. You can quit anytime you want to.

:D

Always leave 'em wanting more.

Even if they hate it!

[jwt13]

Jericho's return was amazing. IWC dorks will either love it or hate it. I'm more looking forward to the people who hate it, it's going to be hilarious to see how Jericho tortures them. Do your magic, Chris.

Yeap it was amazing.....amazingly bad

[bigtplaystew]

The man did a heel turn without speaking lol... how do people not appreciate this?

[jwt13]

Only the biggest WWE fanboys and Chris Jericho marks will like this and thats it. It was very poorly done, all the dark hype videos , the girl, and we get a happy go luck silent man that at the end frowns, and that frown signals to the WWE/Jericho marks that it's a heel turn.....RUSSO SWERVE

[ZMAN]

Yeap it was amazing.....amazingly bad

Yeah, for you it is, because Chris didn't give you what you wanted, which is awesome. It's about time Chris stuck it to the spoiled IWC brats. Wham.

Jericho turned heel on the IWC.

[jwt13]

Yeah, for you it is, because Chris didn't give you what you wanted, which is awesome. It's about time Chris stuck it to the spoiled IWC brats. Wham.

You'r on the internet right.....so you're part of the IWC.....Which means you're one of these IWC brats you talk about? It point blank sucked you can't defend it, it just was not done well at all.

[bigtplaystew]

Why are people obsessing over this "girl"? It was just some weird crap they threw in a video promo package.

[tjb000]

Only the biggest WWE fanboys and Chris Jericho marks will like this and thats it. It was very poorly done, all the dark hype videos , the girl, and we get a happy go luck silent man that at the end frowns, and that frown signals to the WWE/Jericho marks that it's a heel turn.....RUSSO SWERVE

Hey people! This guy has an opinion! I wasn't sure it was an opinion at first because he made it sound like a fact, but I saw what he did there. Sneaky!

I long for the day when wrestling fans or other fans would just agree to disagree and accept that people have different opinions than their own.

[jwt13]

Why are people obsessing over this "girl"? It was just some weird crap they threw in a video promo package.

They said in that video something along the lines of "As I ask when and where I should come, they said it's up to her" and continue up till jericho comes out to point that this girl was the one bring Jericho back. It is a major point that has yet to be answered. Go back and watch all the video it mentions her as the reason he was coming back and that she had a certain power.

[ZMAN]

You'r on the internet right.....so you're part of the IWC.....Which means you're one of these IWC brats you talk about? It point blank sucked you can't defend it, it just was not done well at all.

I hope Jericho does a full two hour Raw of high fives, and you watch the whole thing. You know you will even if you say you will not. You know it, I know it, and so does Jericho. It was done amazingly awesome. I know this because we wouldn't be taking the time right now to argue over this if it hadn't been an effective segment. And I hope you keep arguing it because it just makes the return that much better.

So what if I'm part of the IWC? I can still make up names for you guys.

[jwt13]

I hope Jericho does a full two hour Raw of high fives, and you watch the whole thing. You know you will even if you say you will not. You know it, I know it, and so does Jericho. It was done amazingly awesome. I know this because we wouldn't be taking the time right now to argue over this if it hadn't been an effective segment. And I hope you keep arguing it because it just makes the return that much better.

No I won't watch next week anyway pretty much. I watch WWE every now and then, and TNA most of the time, but this is the last straw for WWE it has so many wholes and it is just worse than Russo booking.

[bigtplaystew]

1) I stand by the "She" being just some dumb crap they put in a video.

2) Even if it is to be taken literally, can I propose the idea that MAYBE just MAYBE... they're planning a longer angle than a one-week reveal on Raw?

[jwt13]

1) I stand by the "She" being just some dumb crap they put in a video.

2) Even if it is to be taken literally, can I propose the idea that MAYBE just MAYBE... they're planning a longer angle than a one-week reveal on Raw?

I'm thinking Steph McMahon being the women and her coming on later most likely I can't think of another woman that makes much sense...but then again Jericho don't fit with the promos so who knows

[ZMAN]

You guys look too deep into these videos. It's WWE, ffs. I remember when people were going ape shit over some 1's looking like Sting's scorpion or something. omg anuhlyze duh kluez!

[jwt13]

You guys look too deep into these videos. It's WWE, ffs. I remember when people were going ape shit over some 1's looking like Sting's scorpion or something. omg anuhlyze duh kluez!

No but it's like having a video with butterflies and flower in a sunny town with kids running around playing happy, being the promo video for an Undertaker or Kane return. It just doesn't match up.

[moon_lit_tears]

Yeap it was amazing.....amazingly bad

We really need a like button!! :p

Why are people obsessing over this "girl"? It was just some weird crap they threw in a video promo package.

Why? Because they hyped it. It's like they were showing us something cool, and giving us strawberry Shortcake.

Oh c'mon... you KNOW you want to give it shot. It's not going to hurt. You can quit anytime you want to.

:D


Fine, let's just get it over with so you can brag to all your buddies! :p

[ZMAN]

The girl represents the IWC. Done.

[nZane]

I tend to stay away from this thread, but I figured I'd pop in and just add the following from Scott Keith's (is he still relevant?) review:
And now, the end of the world. And the mystery man is…Chris Jericho. What, a wrestler LIE to his fans? On TWITTER? Anyway, he celebrates his return for a long, long time with goofy babyface mannerisms, and he doesn’t actually say anything, finally walking out after an eternity with the crowd turning on him. Spinal Tap once said that there’s a fine between stupidity and genius, and this was walking that line. I think that the over-the-top promos were intended as a parody of exactly those sort of promos, and really there’s no deeper meaning behind any of them besides Jericho ****ing with people. If so, he’s a great man. Jericho as delusional genius could be pretty awesome, though, especially if he’s programmed against CM Punk.
Sums up my thoughts pretty well.

[bigtplaystew]

ultimately, like i said, the goal of a guy like Jericho and his mysterious return is to leave the viewers with more questions then answers. That is the beginning of every "big" wrestling angle. This is not new. This is pretty standard wrestling stuff by now.

[OldStingberg]

I can't believe how many people here are apparently incapable of discussing opinions without being total dicks to each other.

[Astil]

I'll give that this may turn great, but as for that angle it was hard to watch. The type of stuff that is just awkward on every level. Also, the Kane coming out of the ring was dumb. Truth quacking was dumb. Just an overall dumb show, and a waste of a debut.

[OldStingberg]

ultimately, like i said, the goal of a guy like Jericho and his mysterious return is to leave the viewers with more questions then answers. That is the beginning of every "big" wrestling angle. This is not new. This is pretty standard wrestling stuff by now.

They've been asking questions for months now, though. That's where I think the big disconnect is. If tonight was the start of the angle, sure. But it's not. There's been months of hype videos leading up to this. It's not unreasonable for people to expect some sort of satisfying payoff on the date these videos have been mentioning. Some explanation, some start of a feud, something.

Instead, like you said, there's mostly just more questions. And I don't think people should be surprised if others are disappointed by that, especially with the WWE's track record of resolving the questions they ask in these sorts of angles.

[ya_its_me]

That was atrocious. And I love Jericho. He has to be swerving the crowd.

It's exactly that. WWE Creative is stupid, but not this stupid to just script it without some subtle meaning behind it...

[angeldelayette]

Also, the Kane coming out of the ring was dumb.

I'm actually a fan of the whole Kane/Undertaker coming up out of the ring. And him grabbing Zack Ryder trying to pull him down into the 'abyss' was done pretty well, I think. Then again, I'm not a Ryder fan so sucking him down into the abyss would draw cheers from me.

[bigtplaystew]

I can't believe how many people here are apparently incapable of discussing opinions without being total dicks to each other.

I actually think this debate has been mostly civil. Just disagreements. No name calling. Well, until your post I guess :-P



Back to your point, I understand why people are disappointed. I said that earlier. I get it.

One of these guys said something along the lines of "Only hard core Jericho fans a WWE mark can defend that."

I'm simply trying to illustrate the alternative point of view. It's a let down in the sense that we didn't get answers. Again, I get it. No one is wrong for wanting more. I guess I just am glad to have him back and don't think it should be nearly as upsetting as it seems to be to some people. Not just here, but all over the place.

It's wrestling. It IS the beginning of a angle. A hype video series promoting a big return generally doesn't produce this huge reveal. Again, it's generally to promote the START of something bigger.

[ZMAN]

What is he supposed to do? Interrupt CM Punk like all the IWC wanted him to, and cut a standard Y2J promo with all the catchphrases and typical explanation as to why he's back? I mean, I'm all for a Jericho promo, but the stunt he pulled was so much better. I'll admit, I was even a bit semi-pissed half way through when he wouldn't just speak. But then I saw what he was doing, and how well he was at mocking the fans. Eh, w/e, either you'll watch it and enjoy/complain about it, or you'll go away. Either way I'm happy.

Kane has always been a part of dumb angles and stunts. This is standard Kane here. He's done worse things for those of you who missed 2002, and whatever year it was that he chased Lita around.

[tjb000]

Fine, let's just get it over with so you can brag to all your buddies! :p

Just to clarify, we're still talking about the Jericho angle, yes? ;)

I can't believe how many people here are apparently incapable of discussing opinions without being total dicks to each other.

Quoted For Truth. I may have came off as a dick when I mocked that one poster about an opinion, but that's because I just think it's ridiculous that people can't accept others' opinions for being OPINIONS. If someone isn't thrilled with this angle, so be it. I'm not going to try to force someone to like it if they disliked it (though I may feel they should give it more time.).

It's fine to be let down by Jericho's return. Like I said, I admittedly was at first as well, I understand the let down, but I think it could evolve into something pretty good too even if I don't have much faith in WWE these days.

To finish it off, I think it's fine to have differing point of views and talk about it, debate, etc. It'd be pretty boring if you couldn't. But when it gets heated (which I don't think this one ever got too heated anyways besides homeboy calling people marks and fanboys) it's just pointless. You're not going to change another person's point of view. Just deal with it and move on.

EDIT: Back on subject of WWE Discussion. I sadly missed pretty much the whole Punk-Ziggler WWE Championship match, but caught the very ending. How was the match? Ziggler has become one of my favorite WWE wrestlers, err, superstars and Punk has been a favorite of mine for a long time. Just wondering how their match was.

[bigtplaystew]

And what's with Kane and all this attempted murder?

[OldStingberg]

I actually think this debate has been mostly civil. Just disagreements. No name calling. Well, until your post I guess :-P

Seriously? Just on a quick skim, there's people calling others who disagreed with them 'fanboys', 'marks', 'geeks', and 'dorks', and that's not to mention at least a half-dozen other snide disparagements. If you think that's civil, you have a really messed up standard for civil discussions.

[moon_lit_tears]

I can't believe how many people here are apparently incapable of discussing opinions without being total dicks to each other.

I'm sorry I'll be nicer. :)

Just to clarify, we're still talking about the Jericho angle, yes? ;)


If course. What kinda girl do you take me for?? :D

Not a Kane fan, but enjoyed tonight with him.

Also. People are not looking for Chris to be a Punk knockoff. Just want this to make sense. Even Jericho fans should realize it was poorly done. I didn't even watch the whole promo because it bored me. I switched to family guy.

You can love the guy and still admit it was lame, we won't hold it against you!

[djthefunkchris]

Jericho's return was amazing. IWC dorks will either love it or hate it. I'm more looking forward to the people who hate it, it's going to be hilarious to see how Jericho tortures them. Do your magic, Chris. I understood what he was doing as soon as he started pointing out to the crowd. I told everyone watching, watch him turn everyone against him! I was actually excited to see that done. Felt it was pretty good, and I got a good kick out of it.

The man did a heel turn without speaking lol... how do people not appreciate this?
This is what I appreciate as well. Never quite seen it done so easily, if ever, before.
Only the biggest WWE fanboys and Chris Jericho marks will like this and thats it. It was very poorly done, all the dark hype videos , the girl, and we get a happy go luck silent man that at the end frowns, and that frown signals to the WWE/Jericho marks that it's a heel turn.....RUSSO SWERVE
I was actually going to do something with this post I thought would be funny, and bassically I was going to start a sentence and not finish it, in the spirit of the Jericho return... but I am scared it might be taken offensively, which wouldn't be what I would want.

This is Jericho's character as he was before he left. He has a scheme up his sleeve, and I'm going to admit that whatever it is, it's going to be a let-down. I know this already because of it's exactly what happened with his last return... Nothing really. This might lead to something better, but I really doubt it will live up to expectations.

The point is, he did his thing, and in the scope of a few minutes, went from the brightest star, to being boo'd, without saying one thing. We know he's a heel for sure now, but that's all we really know, and probably all he wanted to do.

[OldStingberg]

Anyway, I'll say that I was disappointed by the Jericho segment. Not because I thought it was bad necessarily, but more because I thought it could have been much better.

I did love the Kane stuff, though. I'm a big fan when they go batshit insane with Kane or Taker because me and one of my buddies love to joke about it. There's ways they could seriously pull off the silly stuff, but screaming "he's dragging him to the abyss" isn't one.

[djthefunkchris]

Anyway, I'll say that I was disappointed by the Jericho segment. Not because I thought it was bad necessarily, but more because I thought it could have been much better.

I did love the Kane stuff, though. I'm a big fan when they go batshit insane with Kane or Taker because me and one of my buddies love to joke about it. There's ways they could seriously pull off the silly stuff, but screaming "he's dragging him to the abyss" isn't one.

I really wish they would have said "He's dragging him straight to hell!"

I laughed, but it would have made me laugh even more.

[BHK1978]

Yeah after this week's RAW and last week's RAW, I think I am not going to watch this crap for a while. This is why I check out RAW maybe five or six times a year and I don't even bother with Smackdown. I will stick to reading the results of the show for a couple of months.

People always rag on TNA, but I would much rather watch that crap than this crap.

[Wrestling Century]

No I won't watch next week anyway pretty much. I watch WWE every now and then, and TNA most of the time, but this is the last straw for WWE it has so many wholes and it is just worse than Russo booking.

You do know that Russo writes for TNA. Also, TNA has screwed up every chance they have gotten to become big or to make big name stars IMO. WWE has done some screw ups, but none of them were/are as bad as most angles/stories in TNA IMO.

[Wrestling Century]

You guys look too deep into these videos. It's WWE, ffs. I remember when people were going ape shit over some 1's looking like Sting's scorpion or something. omg anuhlyze duh kluez!

Sorry for the double post, but from what I heard, WWE were trying to sign Sting to wrestle 'Taker at WrestleMania, but Sting turned them down. The promo videos were indeed going to be for Sting, but plans changed.

[bigtplaystew]

People always rag on TNA, but I would much rather watch that crap than this crap.

TNA has improved drastically over the past few months if you ask me. They have been putting on decent storylines and great matches on TV. Is there still crap? Yep. But there's jus tmore good stuff than there used to be.

As for Raw "sucking". Disagree. It's still one of my favorite TV shows. It hasnt really changed much in the past couple of years. There's been some small bursts of better-than-average storylines. But other than that, same kinda thing. Take it or leave it.

[BHK1978]

You do know that Russo writes for TNA. Also, TNA has screwed up every chance they have gotten to become big or to make big name stars IMO. WWE has done some screw ups, but none of them were/are as bad as most angles/stories in TNA IMO.

TNA will never have the chance to either "catch" or pass the WWE. You are right about TNA not being able to make big names and a lot of that is their fault but I think a lot of that is the fault of the fans as well.

Your average wrestling fan sees the WWE as the only major league promotion, the only promotion that matters. Same thing is true of your average MMA fan that only sees the UFC as the only promotion that matters.

Why is this the case? For the most part, it is the truth; both promotions have the majority of the best wrestlers/MMA fighters in their respective companies. I say the majority because in the UFC’s case they pretty much do have every single great fighter under their banner. To a lesser extent, that statement is true about the WWE (After all there are still huge stars in TNA and Japan.).

So how can a Bellator in MMA or TNA in wrestling compete against these two giant companies? The answer is they cannot and they should not even bother trying. They should cater to their niche market and be happy with it.

Granted I would love to see TNA give Vince a run for his money because Vince tends to put out a better product when his back is against the wall. Right now, he is so far ahead of any of his competition his promotion does not need to be good.

[Wrestling Century]

The girl represents the IWC. Done.
Um, I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but you are basically showing hate for yourself, as you are a part of the IWC. Also, you can include nearly everybody who watches pro wrestling as a part of the IWC, as the majority of them go on the Internet. :D

I can't believe how many people here are apparently incapable of discussing opinions without being total dicks to each other.
The only time that disagreements get this heated is if something big is going on.


It's exactly that. WWE Creative is stupid, but not this stupid to just script it without some subtle meaning behind it...
Well, we don't exactly know what the WWE Creative is thinking, now do we? There have been excellent fueds/stories before, and horrible ones, all from the same creative team.

What is he supposed to do? Interrupt CM Punk like all the IWC wanted him to, and cut a standard Y2J promo with all the catchphrases and typical explanation as to why he's back? I mean, I'm all for a Jericho promo, but the stunt he pulled was so much better. I'll admit, I was even a bit semi-pissed half way through when he wouldn't just speak. But then I saw what he was doing, and how well he was at mocking the fans. Eh, w/e, either you'll watch it and enjoy/complain about it, or you'll go away. Either way I'm happy.


I didn't understand what had happened at first, but now I think that it was a fantastic return compared to most wrestlers' cookie cutter returns from injury/hiatus.

EDIT: Back on subject of WWE Discussion. I sadly missed pretty much the whole Punk-Ziggler WWE Championship match, but caught the very ending. How was the match? Ziggler has become one of my favorite WWE wrestlers, err, superstars and Punk has been a favorite of mine for a long time. Just wondering how their match was.

I only saw bits and pieces of it, and I wasn't really impressed. IMO it seems like CM Punk is a bit banged up from that TLC match, as is Miz and Del Rio. None of them have been putting on good matches or cutting good promos like they were before the PPV.

One more thing. Does anybody remember how Mick Foley turned heel in ECW? He turned heel by ceasing to do anything that the fans would enjoy, and by putting on the most boring matches he could. It seems that Chris Jericho is doing a similar thing here.

[BHK1978]

TNA has improved drastically over the past few months if you ask me. They have been putting on decent storylines and great matches on TV. Is there still crap? Yep. But there's jus tmore good stuff than there used to be.

As for Raw "sucking". Disagree. It's still one of my favorite TV shows. It hasnt really changed much in the past couple of years. There's been some small bursts of better-than-average storylines. But other than that, same kinda thing. Take it or leave it.

Yeah I actually like TNA and I keep up with it every week. The Kurt Angle skit in the bar is the only thing that was really bad over the past couple of weeks. I better get back on topic before the poster who isn't a mod but thinks he is one, comes in here and yells at me to get back on topic...:D

The only thing I have really liked on RAW over the past year was the whole CM Punk thing. Like you said, it has been the same for the past couple of years and that is the problem. I shouldn't take a few months off and be able to pick up right where I left off.

Oh and sorry Cena but your match against The Rock is not going to be the biggest match of all time at Wrestle Mania. The biggest match of all time is still going to be and forever will be Hulk vs. Andre.

[bigtplaystew]

Seriously? Just on a quick skim, there's people calling others who disagreed with them 'fanboys', 'marks', 'geeks', and 'dorks', and that's not to mention at least a half-dozen other snide disparagements. If you think that's civil, you have a really messed up standard for civil discussions.

Sorry I missed this earlier but...


NO! NOT SERIOUSLY! HENCE THE SMILEY FACE!


Jesus christ yagottabekiddin me.

[Wrestling Century]

TNA will never have the chance to either "catch" or pass the WWE. You are right about TNA not being able to make big names and a lot of that is their fault but I think a lot of that is the fault of the fans as well.

Your average wrestling fan sees the WWE as the only major league promotion, the only promotion that matters. Same thing is true of your average MMA fan that only sees the UFC as the only promotion that matters.

Why is this the case? For the most part, it is the truth; both promotions have the majority of the best wrestlers/MMA fighters in their respective companies. I say the majority because in the UFC’s case they pretty much do have every single great fighter under their banner. To a lesser extent, that statement is true about the WWE (After all there are still huge stars in TNA and Japan.).

So how can a Bellator in MMA or TNA in wrestling compete against these two giant companies? The answer is they cannot and they should not even bother trying. They should cater to their niche market and be happy with it.

Granted I would love to see TNA give Vince a run for his money because Vince tends to put out a better product when his back is against the wall. Right now, he is so far ahead of any of his competition his promotion does not need to be good.

Yes, that's how ROH does business, is by catering to their certain niche of fans for their product, while still slowly expanding. If only TNA would do that, then they would be similar to the late 80's of WCW, an entertainment style mixed with more of a realistic style. They seem to always forget who exactly their audience is. However, I will say that they have slowly started getting better ever since Russo stopped being head of creative, and in a few years time they may actually be a good alternative to the WWE IMO.

[Wrestling Century]

Everybody, read this article on WWE.com about the Jericho return videos: http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/2012-01-02/chris-jericho-return-videos

It seems that there is indeed going to be a 'she' involved in the equation.

[ya_its_me]

Well, we don't exactly know what the WWE Creative is thinking, now do we? There have been excellent fueds/stories before, and horrible ones, all from the same creative team.

So you're saying it's a very good possibility that this angle was scripted without any subtle meaning behind it? I think that that idea is absolutely nuts.

[The Final Countdown]

The way Jericho played the crowd was brilliant. To me, what they did was far more interesting than him simply showing up and attacking someone, or interrupting a promo, or appearing on the stage as the show went off the air, etc. I almost never watch Raw live, but I'll probably do so next week just to see what comes next.

[ya_its_me]

The way Jericho played the crowd was brilliant. To me, what they did was far more interesting than him simply showing up and attacking someone, or interrupting a promo, or appearing on the stage as the show went off the air, etc. I almost never watch Raw live, but I'll probably do so next week just to see what comes next.

Obviously they achieved the goal that they wanted...to get people talking.

[BHK1978]

I just wanted to add that my comment before about not watching was not based on the Jericho segment. Because he is such a great worker, I am willing to follow a wait and see approach when it comes to what he is going to do.

My comment was based on the overall show, which I felt was really bland. I have watched better episodes of WCW Saturday Night, where the Main Event was Sgt. Buddy Lee Parker vs. Vader, than this. Okay maybe that is not true but maybe it is...

[Self]

Why are people obsessing over this "girl"? It was just some weird crap they threw in a video promo package.

For me, the girl was the most interesting part. The video's were well made, nicely atmospheric, but mostly cliches from my perspective. However, the 'girl'... There's something to that I'm digging. It's story. It's character. It's a real thing to grasp onto, not vague promising of things beginning and change happening. Without the girl, the mystery videos didn't really strike a chord with me.

Didn't see the return. Sounds a bit lame to me. As a piece of a larger narrative, it might be fine. As a one off deal, I'm glad I didn't stay up to watch RAW. Wouldn't have been worth it.

[bigtplaystew]

For me, the girl was the most interesting part. The video's were well made, nicely atmospheric, but mostly cliches from my perspective. However, the 'girl'... There's something to that I'm digging. It's story. It's character. It's a real thing to grasp onto, not vague promising of things beginning and change happening. Without the girl, the mystery videos didn't really strike a chord with me.

Didn't see the return. Sounds a bit lame to me. As a piece of a larger narrative, it might be fine. As a one off deal, I'm glad I didn't stay up to watch RAW. Wouldn't have been worth it.

Well I highly doubt it's a "one-off deal" as that would be literally insane to have 6 weeks of video promos to have Jericho come out for 10 minutes and then leave for an extended period of time again.

I'm sure it's part of a larger storyline. Stay tuned.

[milamber]

Interesting and strange Raw. First the Memphis Screwjob. Didn't think they had the balls to slap the belt on Ziggler so soon but they did it.

When the lights blacked out, I wonder how many people thought Undertaker was returning? Not me. Well, Jericho's way too long introduction didn't fit the tone of the promos at all. And who's the girl supposed to be? I'm eager to find out. Jericho was the most over wrestler on the show. Even Rock didn't get that good a reception on his return from memory. Then people started jeering and he left. WTF! I predict a quick heel turn where he claims to be so awesome he can control the crowd at will. The more I think about it the more I like it. As someone said, did we really need a cookie-cutter return. The answer is no.

Kane trying to pull Ryder through the mat into Hell made me laugh but the pyro was a nice touch.

[bigtplaystew]

ziggler doesnt have the championship

[Basmat01]

ziggler doesnt have the championship

I thought Ziggler was going to face CM Punk this week?

[bigtplaystew]

Wait did you see RAW? Ziggler won via count out and stole CM Punk's belt. The title did not change hands. Ziggler just stole the belt.

[milamber]

Back on subject of WWE Discussion. I sadly missed pretty much the whole Punk-Ziggler WWE Championship match, but caught the very ending. How was the match? Ziggler has become one of my favorite WWE wrestlers, err, superstars and Punk has been a favorite of mine for a long time. Just wondering how their match was.

Completely different to their match last week, which is a credit to both men and whoever scripted the match. Punk also took a couple of nasty looking bumps.

Interesting that Punk v Ziggler and Jericho were in the middle of the show and the tag match/Kane was the main event. Make of that what you will.

[milamber]

I really wish they would have said "He's dragging him straight to hell!"

I laughed, but it would have made me laugh even more.

Only JR could sell a statement like that :D

[milamber]

This is why I check out RAW maybe five or six times a year and I don't even bother with Smackdown

SD was actually the better show last year (match-wise), IMO. Although Raw pulls out better angles every now and then.

[Basmat01]

Wait did you see RAW? Ziggler won via count out and stole CM Punk's belt. The title did not change hands. Ziggler just stole the belt.

We dont get Raw till wednesday afternoon :(. I thought id read the recap this week on gerwick and the guy who wrote it totally skipped the title match for some reason lol

[milamber]

Now I'm confused about Ziggler v Punk. Granted I was falling asleep while watching it (not because I bored ;)) but at first I thought Punk retained via DQ. Then the announcers said Ziggler won the title (correct me if I'm wrong) and he was celebrating like he'd won it. Then Johnny Ace said Ziggler would get his championship match next week as promised. Oh well, I guess I wasn't paying enough attention.

[eayragt]

Well, what happened here?

Something that no-one expected.

WWE hates people successfully guessing what was going to happen.

If anyone had predicted how the return would happen it would have been crapped on. They come up with a new way - it's crapped on.

Truth is it's partly the IWC's fault - WWE think they can't do the most logical return as it would be seen as too predictable by the IWC. Or the second most. Or third...

My thoughts? Uncomfortable viewing. Pissed off fans. However, has already done a good job of defining Jericho's character. Sets up WrestleMania as the guy who hates the IWC vs the guy the IWC wet themselves over. Could be good if built on over the next few weeks. The Summer of Punk proved that the WWE aren't to good at that, but I'm not going to judge on one night. I did that with Christian's short title run, and I was wrong.

[Fleisch]

I rarely comment on WWE but the little viginettes had me intrigued so I watched Raw live for a change. I enjoyed the CM Punk v. Ziggler match but you could see a mile off that Punk would get screwed - however it was done well. Still the match was solid and Ziggler taking the belt despite the count out win was a nice touch.

I turned off midway through Jerichos return. Shame because as I said, that was the first Raw I stayed up until 2am to watch and believe me, it'll be the last Raw I watch period. Whoever wrote that return is an idiot. Whether it's part of a bigger story or not really doesn't matter to me now because it was the worst pay off to a 6 week hype. Don't get me wrong I was happy when Jericho appeared, but after 5 minutes of "yeah baby" and pointing to the crowd I was bored.

Vince and Jericho think ALL fans who post on the internet are morons who want WWE to fail, and that they all deserve the big F.U. which is actually not true. I wanted WWE to entertain me and it is becoming more apparent that just isn't going to happen because they're more interested in their "F*** the Internet" era so I'll invest my time in something else.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a one shot deal - yes Vince and Jericho are that arrogant that it could be. They're both set for life financially so why care about the fans who invest their time in the product? I hope for those of you who will continue to watch WWE that I'm wrong because fans of wrestling (or fans of anything really), whether it be those on the internet or those who don't even own a computer, deserve much better than that pile of shit Raw churned out.

Just my opinion, don't expect people to agree or disagree.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Vince and Jericho think ALL fans who post on the internet are morons who want WWE to fail, and that they all deserve the big F.U. which is actually not true. I wanted WWE to entertain me and it is becoming more apparent that just isn't going to happen because they're more interested in their "F*** the Internet" era so I'll invest my time in something else.


Not all of them are as described in your quote, but.. a good majority don't help their case. You know, when jericho's twitter is attacked by a horde of bloggers and rabid know-it-alls. or when the promos are being deciphered and decimated all throughout youtube.

And really? "**** the Internet" era? You obviously didn't watch the Raw after TLC. it was almost booked like a smark's wet dream, with three of the IWC's poster boys closing the show. only it's not even a one-time thing, those three guys are actually holding major/singles titles right now.


Jericho's return.. I'm not gonna say anything about it yet, because it may reenact a tired argument I don't wanna enduce again. but for the record, it hasn't sat 100% well with me either, yet.

[Jaysin]

Trust me, it's not Jericho coming back. He made VERY clear in a rude tweet that he is sick of wrestling and it's fans and he never wants to get another tweet concerning wrestling.

I told him via tweet that he can kiss most of his followers goodbye since we, the wrestling fans, have PAID for him to live the way he has become accustomed to.

I never thought I would find someone in the business that I would hate more than The Rock, but I think I found him.

Hahaha...hahaha

Anywaysss

[Tha Black Phenom]

Screw it, I'll just say it.. just wait and see. Of course, those who are tuning off seem they were never all that enamored with WWE to begin with and were checking in for the hype.. this is a hype backlash situation to say the least. But this screams much more to it. i don't think WWE(hell, even TNA!) could be that short-sighted and put this all out there without it there being something behind it. And I don't mean to put the guy on a pedestal, but Chris Jericho knows what he's doing.

All I'm gonna say is this, those who didn't like the segment at all... watch it again. Seriously give it a second try. I know how most people felt here when it aired, and some posters here actually pointed it out... uncomfortable and awkward to a tee. And then it left most of us very sour. It left me quite sour. Consider all things, go back on youtube and watch that part again. You may see things you haven't seen before - and if not the case, so be it. I certainly do not expect everyone to sit well with this, even if jericho himself walked up to them and told them exactly how it's gonna go down.

[Jaysin]

Just watched the return video.
It was awkward. Jericho's facial expressions looked really forced at times, but it wasn't the worst thing that's ever been on Raw. I'll definitely check out next week's Raw.

[milamber]

There's about about a zillion other forums with the exact same heated discussion. Too many words, how about some pictures instead.

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/jericho3.jpg

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/jericho4.jpg

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/jericho.jpg

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/jericho2.jpg

[crownsy]

I know you're a WWE mark that will defend what the E does no matter what. But they build up this for about 5 to 6 weeks, having a good hype up of a man and a women comeing...so we get Y2J which is cool even though he is nothing like the dark minded hype videos that were shown, but we don't get the women that so called told him to come back. WWE failed at this big time.

Right, I'm a mark because I won't bash everything they do like all the cool kids. Why don't you look back through the thread.

It's entirely possible this angle will be awful. I'm just willing to give it a raw or two before I bury it.

While it's true I get a chuckle out of all the "omg!!! Worst company evar!!!" reactions to everything the wwe does, I've been pretty critical of how they've screwed up some potential great angles (punk, missing zigglers chances for a turn when Austin was around, this whole awful rock-cena build up)

I just find the negative reactions and hand wringing to every single thing the wwe does hilarious. I find this one, where people are freaking out and calling this "the worst return ever" when there's clearly more coming even better than most.

Sorry if not being as offended by everything they do on raw makes me a mark, I realize I'm not a fantastic Booker like you. If only you were in charge of raw. Every angle would be produce an instant orgasm in the viewer, I'm sure.

[20LEgend]

I think that I can't make a judgement yet, I'm going the wait and see route even though I disliked it (I kept getting excited week on week in the Punk / HHH / Authority / Nash and got nothing.)

That said I think most fans, and WWE should know this wanted something after that build up. I think that for non-IWC fans more so actually I'm sure they were annoyed and bemused at what happen, but I don't really know :p.

I will say, I was really excited for the return and had been excited all week (:o) but know , I may be being rash but I'm kinda not really that interested in Jericho anymore - now next week will change that *fingers crossed*.

I think the "You have brought this upon yourself" line may be key in all of this.

[juggaloninjalee]

I was excited for the build up of Jericho returning (not knowing if it was him or Taker) and then wanted him to speak. He said nothing and the way he was acting had nothing to do with the videos. It was weird and sort of a let down. Still excited Jericho is back though!

I'm taking a wait and see approach but last night was awkward.

[sabataged]

Maybe a little too long, but it was a very smart concept. It's obvious he's supposed to be a heel, heck it was through all the promos. Yet, come on! He's Chris ****ing Jericho. He's making another big return after months of hype. Of course the fans are going to cheer him. The fact that the crowd would pop for "BREAK THE WALLS DOWN!!!!!" was easily foreseeable.

So what did they do? They used that to their advantage. Jericho got his big pop and played along. He had those people in the palm in his hand. He had ME too. And he just shoved it to us. He sarcastically mocked the people until the truth finally dawned on them, and before they could even realize just how badly they were played.... He was gone.

Maybe it wasn't, "brilliant." Maybe it wasn't legendary. But it was a very good game plan. It was a clever and appropriate way to take the face reaction he was naturally going to receive and quickly turn it around on the people while still being, well... Being Chris Jericho!

How would YOU have done it? Have him walk out and do some standard heel stuff? Interfere in a match? Try to draw heat on the mic? Maybe good for someone who's making their debut... But a mega-star in the sport who has a well established reputation and is generally liked by the audience? No way. What happened was very, very clever.

[The Shape]

Punk brought about what everybody wanted.

Then people started to tire of it.

Jericho the postmodernist will point out the flaws in the way everyone sees everything.

Hopefully he doesn't turn half the audience on Punk in the process xD

[Moe Hunter]

Trust me, it's not Jericho coming back. He made VERY clear in a rude tweet that he is sick of wrestling and it's fans and he never wants to get another tweet concerning wrestling.

I told him via tweet that he can kiss most of his followers goodbye since we, the wrestling fans, have PAID for him to live the way he has become accustomed to.

I never thought I would find someone in the business that I would hate more than The Rock, but I think I found him.

I'm glad your blind, completely mark-like hatred of Jericho didn't blind you to the possibility of...

Oh wait!

Give us a heads up on the next thing we can "trust you" about, I'll put money against it :)

[sabataged]

I'm glad your blind, completely mark-like hatred of Jericho didn't blind you to the possibility of...

Oh wait!

Give us a heads up on the next thing we can "trust you" about, I'll put money against it :)

lol

Anyone that didn't think it was Jericho was just silly for thinking so. All the dirt sheet's reported it over a month ago. And besides that Jericho is the only one to do these cryptic video's. I guess Undertaker would be the only reasonable exception if someone were to of guessed him. Other than that you should be ashamed of yourself.

[juggaloninjalee]

Maybe a little too long, but it was a very smart concept. It's obvious he's supposed to be a heel, heck it was through all the promos. Yet, come on! He's Chris ****ing Jericho. He's making another big return after months of hype. Of course the fans are going to cheer him. The fact that the crowd would pop for "BREAK THE WALLS DOWN!!!!!" was easily foreseeable.

So what did they do? They used that to their advantage. Jericho got his big pop and played along. He had those people in the palm in his hand. He had ME too. And he just shoved it to us. He sarcastically mocked the people until the truth finally dawned on them, and before they could even realize just how badly they were played.... He was gone.

Maybe it wasn't, "brilliant." Maybe it wasn't legendary. But it was a very good game plan. It was a clever and appropriate way to take the face reaction he was naturally going to receive and quickly turn it around on the people while still being, well... Being Chris Jericho!

How would YOU have done it? Have him walk out and do some standard heel stuff? Interfere in a match? Try to draw heat on the mic? Maybe good for someone who's making their debut... But a mega-star in the sport who has a well established reputation and is generally liked by the audience? No way. What happened was very, very clever.

I would have had him do what he did but then get on the mic and mock the fans personally. Maybe some of his original cocky stuff from pre 2000. All he would have to do is drop 1 line... "You fans make me sick! You weren't cheering as I was walking out that door. Now that everything on this show has gotten boring you cheer at the 1st sight of something interesting walking thru that curtain."

I dunno something along those lines. Either way though I am curious as to what he is going to be doing.

If I had to bet before last night I would have put my money on Undertaker returning. That won't happen until the 1st week of March probably.

Happy Jericho is back! Don't get me wrong. Just felt like the way it went last night was kind of boring. Would have been awesome if I were there in the front row though.

[OldStingberg]

A couple other thoughts:

-I think Daniel Bryan's title reign is already perilously close to being dead in the water. He gets dominated by Cody Rhodes and only manages to beat him with a small package? And then celebrates like he just won the Olympics? That, combined with the way he's been unwilling to physically get involved with Mark Henry, instead distracting him with the belt, doesn't bode well. It makes Bryan look weak. Hopefully Big Show turns heel on him.

-Kinda crazy that the well-hyped Punk/Ziggler match opened the second hour while the generic six-man tag match made that night got the main event slot. I'd say the odds of Cena winning the title at Elimination Chamber are around 50% right now.

-Poor Brodus Clay. He's been turned into a running joke. His debut seriously needs some oomph behind it now.

-Poor Eve. She continues to take big bumps in divas matches, despite the fact that the WWE obviously doesn't care about the division, and most of the women she's wrestling against are terrible. Seriously, that Bella botched a small package.

[juggaloninjalee]

A couple other thoughts:

-I think Daniel Bryan's title reign is already perilously close to being dead in the water. He gets dominated by Cody Rhodes and only manages to beat him with a small package? And then celebrates like he just won the Olympics? That, combined with the way he's been unwilling to physically get involved with Mark Henry, instead distracting him with the belt, doesn't bode well. It makes Bryan look weak. Hopefully Big Show turns heel on him.

-Kinda crazy that the well-hyped Punk/Ziggler match opened the second hour while the generic six-man tag match made that night got the main event slot. I'd say the odds of Cena winning the title at Elimination Chamber are around 50% right now.

-Poor Brodus Clay. He's been turned into a running joke. His debut seriously needs some oomph behind it now.

-Poor Eve. She continues to take big bumps in divas matches, despite the fact that the WWE obviously doesn't care about the division, and most of the women she's wrestling against are terrible. Seriously, that Bella botched a small package.

1) Daniel Bryan - He is being billed as the complete underdog. I don't think his reign will last very long but he still is getting a run with the belt. I am still happy about this.

2) Punk vs Ziggler - Ya know I agree with ya here. Everything after this match just was blah to me. The heels having a disadvantage of 2 vs 3 was just plain weird.

3) Brodus Clay - I can't imagine where this is going. I would have liked for him to debut squashing Morrison a few weeks back or possibly squashing Evan Bourne. He could even have debuted beating up Santino. A slow but monsterous build is perfect for the guy. Something tells me that management isn't behind him right now.

4) Eve - She has to practice the big bumps so when Kharma returns she can be one of the 1st ones destroyed. WWE womens division is a joke. I flip the channel or play video games during this time.

[jjohns44]

When Daniel Bryan was squatting down and saying 'nobody can beat me' anyone think of Gollum from Lord of the Rings? All he had to do was say 'my precious' I get the feelin it won't be Show's night and Bryan may do what it takes to keep that title a little longer, even if it means a turn...

AS for Jericho's return, I was getting it too: the way it felt kind of forced and that look on his face when he left, it was like 'the sheep are still BAAAHing' I'm sure next week will all be about him telling them what moronic robots they are for cheering when he comes back after a year off. Most people may have thought of it as a crappy return cuz they probably took it at on the surface value, but even in the promos it would say 'look within' now that I think of the girl in the promo's she would be smiling, look at the camera then start frowning. Therein lies something in him, maybe come out a few times each week just for pops and eventually show his true heelish colors.

[Jaysin]

I'd rather have Bryan kicking Cena in the head screaming "YOU ARE NOT BETTER THAN ME" all over again than have Bryan doing the ultimate underdog stuff.

But, I'm just happy he has the title.

[bigtplaystew]

4) Eve - She has to practice the big bumps so when Kharma returns she can be one of the 1st ones destroyed. WWE womens division is a joke. I flip the channel or play video games during this time.


I'm playing with my own very special controller during this time...

[b0shey]

The girl in the video is Stephanie McMahon :p

[bigtplaystew]

dude if they do a steph/vince/jericho angle going into mania-ish with HHH/punk/Diva of your choice (maybe Kharma or anyone else that makes an impact I'd be A.O.K. with that

[Fantabulous]

A couple other thoughts:
-Kinda crazy that the well-hyped Punk/Ziggler match opened the second hour while the generic six-man tag match made that night got the main event slot. I'd say the odds of Cena winning the title at Elimination Chamber are around 50% right now.


Credit this to the six-man tag a few weeks doing absolutely horrible numbers in the ratings, both for the quarter and the overrun. Since then, they've put the only guy they have faith in to move numbers in the main event segment.

[Wrestling Century]

Credit this to the six-man tag a few weeks doing absolutely horrible numbers in the ratings, both for the quarter and the overrun. Since then, they've put the only guy they have faith in to move numbers in the main event segment.

I hope that they don't put the blame on Punk for that. I actually wanted to switch channels when I heard that that was going to be the main event, because I knew that it would be just like the standard 6 man tag match that WWE has every few weeks! Plus, the six wrestlers in that match are not solid Main Eventers yet, so they should've seen that coming. I honestly hope that the numbers for this week show everyone changing the channel during this main event as well, then maybe WWE won't throw random multi man tag team matches in the main events anymore.

[JackKnifed72]

Lost in all the debate and discussion over Jericho's return segment is this...

For about five minutes on RAW last night...as Jericho played the crowd...Micheal Cole was completely silent...

Micheal Cole not talking = Epic Win! :D

[TheKenwyne]

Jericho wins again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0fcDmbX3aU&feature=player_embedded

[djthefunkchris]

Jericho wins again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0fcDmbX3aU&feature=player_embedded

Totally Awesome.

Yeah, that has to be something special in the works, Jericho was trying not to laugh for real, there at the end, when he lit up his jacket and then kept walking.

Classic Stuff, time to buckle up and enjoy the upcoming ride.

[brashleyholland]

Trust me, it's not Jericho coming back. He made VERY clear in a rude tweet that he is sick of wrestling and it's fans and he never wants to get another tweet concerning wrestling.

I told him via tweet that he can kiss most of his followers goodbye since we, the wrestling fans, have PAID for him to live the way he has become accustomed to.

I never thought I would find someone in the business that I would hate more than The Rock, but I think I found him.

It makes me warm and fuzzy that even in the twitter age, pro wrestling fans are still getting 'got' :)

[Marshall]

Absolutely raging i didn't get my Burchill/Katie Lea return on Raw...

[sabataged]

If I didnt think Big Show was going to turn heel to set up his Big Show vs Shaq match at WM I would think for sure Daniel Bryan would turn heel here. He seems to be set up perfect for a nice heel turn.

[jjohns44]

It makes me warm and fuzzy that even in the twitter age, pro wrestling fans are still getting 'got' :)

hahaha

well he said it on Twitter, so it must be true! The internet is the source of all things that is truth!

[milamber]

Jericho is genius. Turns up and gives the fans what they want... and keeps on giving it to them... until the fans get sick of it and do the heel-turning themselves!

As crap as the segment was at the time, I'm glad they didn't pander to the Little Jimmies and their love of hollow, generic segments.

That backstage clip is awesome. Turning on his jacket lights :) I hope they show it on Smackdown and next week's Raw.

[milamber]

well he said it on Twitter, so it must be true! The internet is the source of all things that is truth!

Johnny Ace tweeted that Brodus will debut next week. So it must be true!

[TheKenwyne]

Totally Awesome.

Yeah, that has to be something special in the works, Jericho was trying not to laugh for real, there at the end, when he lit up his jacket and then kept walking.

Classic Stuff, time to buckle up and enjoy the upcoming ride.

I refrained from posting a wait-and-see type response after the initial heat on Jericho for his enigmatic return, but I personally loved it. Jericho works the smarks better than anyone and this is one of those examples - I think we're seeing the birth of the first 'True Heel' in a long time - a guy who almost everyone hates - look at the rage across forums and sites professed to be 'smart', the same sites that dug heel Punk, heel Christian and 'The Best in the World at What He Does' Jericho. This hate is NOT directed at WWE but at Jericho - in creating a heel persona by converting his return pop into genuine heat the man has excelled himself in a truly original way. Monday night was brilliant, and I for one can't wait to see how their going to follow it up. I hope they build to the guy everyone loves CM Punk vs. the guy everyone hates Jericho at WM. The fact they mentioned the Rumble match in the video I posted, and the fact a Rumble win is missing from CJ's resume makes me believe that that could be the road we go down. But hey, I don't really want to fantasy book it, I just want it to be awesome.

[djthefunkchris]

I refrained from posting a wait-and-see type response after the initial heat on Jericho for his enigmatic return, but I personally loved it. Jericho works the smarks better than anyone and this is one of those examples - I think we're seeing the birth of the first 'True Heel' in a long time - a guy who almost everyone hates - look at the rage across forums and sites professed to be 'smart', the same sites that dug heel Punk, heel Christian and 'The Best in the World at What He Does' Jericho. This hate is NOT directed at WWE but at Jericho - in creating a heel persona by converting his return pop into genuine heat the man has excelled himself in a truly original way. Monday night was brilliant, and I for one can't wait to see how their going to follow it up. I hope they build to the guy everyone loves CM Punk vs. the guy everyone hates Jericho at WM. The fact they mentioned the Rumble match in the video I posted, and the fact a Rumble win is missing from CJ's resume makes me believe that that could be the road we go down. But hey, I don't really want to fantasy book it, I just want it to be awesome.

/nod, I was thinking the same thing. I also thought it was all very uncomfortable looking, to start with. I expected him to go into a rant or something right off the bat, and when he didn't, I knew he was purposely trying to get the crowd to turn. What I don't know is what's up his sleeve.

You're probably right. He truly ticked off everyone, especially his twitter followers, lol. I don't know what's in store, and I'd like to think it's something like you're saying. Who knows, it might be what HE wants.

However, I look back at the other times he has come back, and I can't remember him not letting me down (or WWE creative letting me down). The "Sheep" (the IWC crowd, in other words "us") better get ready for this happening to them with him for a good while, because I think you're on to something... and the way the WWE has been lately, from everyone's comments that work for the WWE these days, I can see them letting Jericho do bassically what he wants right now.... Anything is possible. Him being the "Anti-IWC" person... I can see him doing terrible match's with the opposite of what people "want" to see him doing, just to get under their skin more....

Hopefully though, at the end of the run we will see a huge pay-off, with a great match. To be quite frank though, I don't know if CM Punk can pull off a really spectacular match, anymore... I've seen him come close, but I don't know if it's because of reading wrestling boards or what, I always seem to see his goof-ups moreso then his greatness... In other words, I'm a huge fan of CM Punk, probably for alot of the reasons I loved Mic Foley. I like him dropping "Pipe Bombs" moreso then anything else though... and he can't do that week after week, because he already said all there is to be said for now. All he can do is keep his focus, and show Jericho why he's "The Best In The World!"

[OldStingberg]

I think you guys are painting with too broad of a brush. Sure, there's some people who are genuinely angry at Jericho. But there's a lot of people who aren't angry but disappointed that the return wasn't more interesting or entertaining.

But whatever, people have different opinions. It would be cool, though, if people could express those opinions without denigrating others. Having a different opinion doesn't make someone a smark or not smart or a little Jimmy that likes hollow, generic crap.

[Fantabulous]

I think you guys are painting with too broad of a brush. Sure, there's some people who are genuinely angry at Jericho. But there's a lot of people who aren't angry but disappointed that the return wasn't more interesting or entertaining.

But whatever, people have different opinions. It would be cool, though, if people could express those opinions without denigrating others. Having a different opinion doesn't make someone a smark or not smart or a little Jimmy that likes hollow, generic crap.
Broad strokes paint a simple picture. Besides, there's more fun in knocking a different opinion than accepting it. How else are these people meant to get their jollies?

[OldStingberg]

1) Daniel Bryan - He is being billed as the complete underdog. I don't think his reign will last very long but he still is getting a run with the belt. I am still happy about this.

I'm not sure how good of an idea it is to use Bryan as an underdog. That role makes a lot more sense for Zack Ryder. Goofy guy, fans love him, no discernible talent, him being an underdog makes sense. Bryan, on the other hand, has very little fan support and has been booked, at times, as having legitimate submission ability. It's a weird dichotomy to try and portray Bryan as both a submission master and a fluky underdog who can barely beat a guy holding a demonstrably inferior title.

That's why I think his title reign is not gonna last long. The WWE doesn't know what they want him to be, and as such, they're not giving fans good reasons to get behind him. And, of course, when fans fail to get behind him enough, the WWE will blame Bryan and take the title off him and possibly shuffle him down to a Swaggerian level of wrestling hell.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I think you guys are painting with too broad of a brush. Sure, there's some people who are genuinely angry at Jericho. But there's a lot of people who aren't angry but disappointed that the return wasn't more interesting or entertaining.

But whatever, people have different opinions. It would be cool, though, if people could express those opinions without denigrating others. Having a different opinion doesn't make someone a smark or not smart or a little Jimmy that likes hollow, generic crap.

Be it noted I agree with all of that. And like I said earlier, I can get why people would be disappointed. All I wanna add to that is what everyone wished/expected for often ends up becoming the most predictable stuff ever.

The problem is when the IWC starts jumping the gun so much that the accepted potential scenario becomes the most predictable option. It's almost like it's a race to figure out how the storyline may entail. You mentioned people not finding the return interesting or entertaining(which I respect). I just wonder what they would've found entertaining, if it would've been Jericho just interrupting or attacking Punk and declaring his territory - which everyone and their mother, including everyone on his twitter page that day expected to happen.

That's why I personally dropped out of that "race" years ago, because I don't find it fun anymore. It also decreases the chances of me going on a exasperated rant as soon as a swerve happens.

I remember when Jericho told the fans to calm the hell down when Christian lost the title in five days, and surely enough I was one of those angry fans. Turns out he was right, and Christian became more established than ever before.

I actually believe WWE is more prone to mess up when a big storyline is unleashed right in the open(Nash texting himself...)


The funniest thing is because of things like this, certain people actually think that Vince is flipping the middle finger to the Internet? Now I don't think he's specifically catering to us either, but take a second look at how things are running now as opposed to five years ago.

[TheKenwyne]

I think you guys are painting with too broad of a brush. Sure, there's some people who are genuinely angry at Jericho. But there's a lot of people who aren't angry but disappointed that the return wasn't more interesting or entertaining.

But whatever, people have different opinions. It would be cool, though, if people could express those opinions without denigrating others. Having a different opinion doesn't make someone a smark or not smart or a little Jimmy that likes hollow, generic crap.

Just to note that I meant both 'smart' and 'smark' in the sense of someone who is 'in' on everything; as another word for IWC members like ourselves, not as an insult to anyone's intelligence, which, on reread, that inverted comma 'smart' could be seen as. If anyone took offence I apologise.

[bigtplaystew]

Anyone else find it humorous that Fantabulous is pointing out how wrong it is to knock other peoples' thoughts and opinions? LOL he's a funny guy.

It's a message board. We're gonna hit each other sometimes. The only real problem are those small group of people (and we're talking all over not just here) who CONSTANTLY insult people and almost never have a positive thing to say about anyone...

THEY are the ones that make boarding not fun some times...

[Wrestling Century]

The "Sheep" (the IWC crowd, in other words "us") better get ready for this happening to them with him for a good while, because I think you're on to something... and the way the WWE has been lately, from everyone's comments that work for the WWE these days, I can see them letting Jericho do bassically what he wants right now.... Anything is possible. Him being the "Anti-IWC" person... I can see him doing terrible match's with the opposite of what people "want" to see him doing, just to get under their skin more....


Reminds me exactly of Mick Foley's Anti-Hardcore persona in ECW. He purposely put on bad, anti-violent matches and promos to piss the fans off. Were the matches entertaining? Hell no. Were the promos entertaining? Well, yes, but it wasn't what the ECW fans wanted.

[djthefunkchris]

Reminds me exactly of Mick Foley's Anti-Hardcore persona in ECW. He purposely put on bad, anti-violent matches and promos to piss the fans off. Were the matches entertaining? Hell no. Were the promos entertaining? Well, yes, but it wasn't what the ECW fans wanted.

I never could stand Jericho in his early years, which is weird, because I now think the world of him. But yeah, I think you posted something like this before, and I kind of expect something like that. Someone to come along and do exactly the opposite of what "certain" fans want, and make it work, and tick them off in the meantime. People can blame whomever, but it's Jericho doing this stuff, I'd put money on it.

I also think it's Stephanie McMahan thats going to be revealed as the person "pulling the strings". I figured it was obvious to be Jericho to be coming back, just thought it was too obvious to be him... but I was wrong in that respect. To me it's too obvious that is Stephanie McMahan, but I'm probably wrong, so I'm calling that it's her now.

[milamber]

My fantasy booking:

Royal Rumble - Punk retains against Ziggler. Jericho finishes 2nd in the Rumble (just to be unpredictable). Barrett wins the Rumble. Bryan retains against Henry.

Elimination Chamber - Jericho wins. Bryan retains again to become the ultimate underdog.

WrestleMania - Punk beats Jericho. Bryan beats Barrett.

Extreme Rules - Jericho's woman (Steph McMahon, the person Johnny Ace has been texting for months) gets Ace to set up an Undisputed WWE Championship Match so Jericho can reclaim what was his: Punk v Jericho v Bryan. Punk wins and the Ace is forced to merge the titles.

[juggaloninjalee]

I'm not sure how good of an idea it is to use Bryan as an underdog. That role makes a lot more sense for Zack Ryder. Goofy guy, fans love him, no discernible talent, him being an underdog makes sense. Bryan, on the other hand, has very little fan support and has been booked, at times, as having legitimate submission ability. It's a weird dichotomy to try and portray Bryan as both a submission master and a fluky underdog who can barely beat a guy holding a demonstrably inferior title.

That's why I think his title reign is not gonna last long. The WWE doesn't know what they want him to be, and as such, they're not giving fans good reasons to get behind him. And, of course, when fans fail to get behind him enough, the WWE will blame Bryan and take the title off him and possibly shuffle him down to a Swaggerian level of wrestling hell.

I am not saying booking him as an underdog is a good idea. Just saying I am glad he is champ. He will forever go down as a World Champion now. He is a legit threat because of his technical abilities but against Henry, and Big Show in particular he is at a pretty big disadvantage (how it's been booked at least).

My fantasy booking:

Royal Rumble - Punk retains against Ziggler. Jericho finishes 2nd in the Rumble (just to be unpredictable). Barrett wins the Rumble. Bryan retains against Henry.

Elimination Chamber - Jericho wins. Bryan retains again to become the ultimate underdog.

WrestleMania - Punk beats Jericho. Bryan beats Barrett.

Extreme Rules - Jericho's woman (Steph McMahon, the person Johnny Ace has been texting for months) gets Ace to set up an Undisputed WWE Championship Match so Jericho can reclaim what was his: Punk v Jericho v Bryan. Punk wins and the Ace is forced to merge the titles.

Interesting fantasy booking. Punk vs Jericho at Mania would be great!

I don't think Bryan will still have the title by Mania though. If I had to bet it would be Taker holding the title or winning it at Mania from a Barrett or some other heel like Henry.

[djthefunkchris]

I honestly don't see what else I could book Daniel Bryan as, besides an Underdog... at least where the main title is concerned. Tag Teams, or lesser titles, not so limited... but if he's going up against people like Big Show or Mark Henry... I don't care if he's billed as the best submission specialist in the world, he's going to be "the underdog" no matter what they do with that. Just like anyone his size would be. It's not that people don't think he can pull it off so much as they look at 7' vs. 5'2" (or at least he looks around that), and go... woah... I don't know if I'd want to be in there, if I were him. The weight difference alone is just plain scarry.... what if one of them slips and falls on him the wrong way?

Just saying.

[BurningHamster]

Jericho's jacket.

Also nobody should have to play underdog to Mark Henry. For a dude who is a failed weightlifter from like 15 years ago to still be billed as the strongest man in the world is a joke in and of itself. Why not bill Daniel Bryan as the fastest man in the world instead of an underdog? Makes about as much sense.

[codey]

Whoah, whoah, whoah! Henry may not have been the best weight lifter, but he was certainly not a failure! The guy was voted team captain in the 96 Olympics, and the only reason he placed low (is 14th in the world rally low?) was due to a back injury.

[BurningHamster]

Whoah, whoah, whoah! Henry may not have been the best weight lifter, but he was certainly not a failure! The guy was voted team captain in the 96 Olympics, and the only reason he placed low (is 14th in the world rally low?) was due to a back injury.

Nobody trains their whole life to be number 14. :p

To be fair, I do like Mark Henry and his latest run but psssssh, if WWE can get away with billing 1996's 14th best weight lifter as the world's strongest man then there is no reason for them to bill anyone else as anything less than super elite at what they do.

[jhd1]

To be fair, I do like Mark Henry and his latest run but psssssh, if WWE can get away with billing 1996's 14th best weight lifter as the world's strongest man then there is no reason for them to bill anyone else as anything less than super elite at what they do.

Didn't Henry win the Arnold Strongman...something or something similar in the early 2000s? Fairly sure that's where the nickname comes from, not the Olympics.

EDIT: Arnold Strongman Classic 2002, apparently.