The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[pauls07]

If anyone's watching Elimination Chamber, it'd be awesome to get a PM with linkage :p

i second that motion :)

[Jaysin]

I can't believe the Raw Chamber is first...but it's been fun.

[Jaysin]

The Cena/FCW segment made me want to pull for Cena :eek:

[pauls07]

The Cena/FCW segment made me want to pull for Cena :eek:

same and i felt a little sick inside :)

[Jaysin]

Poor Beth and Tamina. The crowd sucked the life out of that match. It was a good match though, but the crowd really killed it.

[moon_lit_tears]

Smack down chamber not last. Eh.

Raw chamber had its moments.

Poor camera man. :(

[codey]

I'm just weirded out that neither EC was the main event on the EC PPV.

[moon_lit_tears]

I'm just weirded out that neither EC was the main event on the EC PPV.

Cena/Kane wasn't that impressive. Had a few moments, but all in all...bah.

[20LEgend]

Disappointing show and I have to be up in 4 hours :(

[borman_48]

Worst match on last? Sure seemed like it. Both chamber matches were solid. And I loved the Santino stuff myself. Maybe I'm not taking this serious enough, but Santino was definitely getting the biggest reaction from the crowd. 1st half of it was good stuff, died off in the end.

[nucleardonkey]

Santino really should have been given the victory there....the man is over like no one else. If anything Daniel could have used his rematch to get the belt back on Smackdown and then gone into Mania against Sheamus.

[Wrestling Century]

Santino really should have been given the victory there....the man is over like no one else. If anything Daniel could have used his rematch to get the belt back on Smackdown and then gone into Mania against Sheamus.

IMO, that would make Daniel Bryan look super weak. I mean, sure Santino has been getting over lately, but the only semi-notable match that he's won in the past two years was that battle royal on Smackdown. He's nothing more than a very popular jobber IMO.

[borman_48]

Santino really should have been given the victory there....the man is over like no one else. If anything Daniel could have used his rematch to get the belt back on Smackdown and then gone into Mania against Sheamus.

Yeah, I'm with WC there. Santino doesn't need that win. He's the perfect "jobber to the stars" so to speak.

[Jaysin]

EC was pretty boring and the crowd let them know it by being totally dead.

Pretty sure I heard boring chants during the SD Chamber match too.

Kane vs Cena wasn't that bad, but definitely didn't feel like a main event.

[ThatChizzle]

Even though Kane said Cena was Embracing the Hate on Raw last week, but after Cena winning....where did the hate go?

[nucleardonkey]

IMO, that would make Daniel Bryan look super weak. I mean, sure Santino has been getting over lately, but the only semi-notable match that he's won in the past two years was that battle royal on Smackdown. He's nothing more than a very popular jobber IMO.

Not if it was played up that Daniel beat Barrett after taking a sizable beating then Santino came up from behind and caught Daniel off guard with a roll up. It would have made the chamber look totally unpredictable and then brought in more viewers to Smackdown to see what happened with Santino and the world title then a quick squash submission victory for Daniel and the world is right again.

[supershot]

Worst match on last? Sure seemed like it. Both chamber matches were solid. And I loved the Santino stuff myself. Maybe I'm not taking this serious enough, but Santino was definitely getting the biggest reaction from the crowd. 1st half of it was good stuff, died off in the end.

Id say the hottest match was the smackdown chamber. The crowd flipped when big show broke in on Bryan. I'd say Big Show or Santino got the biggest pops. I might lean a little towards Santino.

By the way I got my little sister on TV! look for the box of fruity pebbles during Cena/Kane :p

[milamber]

Raw Chamber - Interesting choice for the opener. Would have picked this as the main or semi-main event. Love that it started with Face vs Face. Some great spots on the chamber floor (with Holy **** chants for Kofi's DDT counter on Ziggler) and Jericho using the pod door on Punk. Kofi was booked strong. Entrant and elimination orders were predictable (in a good way) until Jericho's shock exit. Punk's super push continues. Pretty awesome match.

Cool behind the scenes look at Cena and friends at his gym.

Beth v Tamina - Good match. Shame Tamina didn't win as she deserves it. Bring on Kharma. There's actually a few good divas now. Just like the tag division, the potential is there if the creative team and talent scouts put some effort into them.

Alberto Del Rio, Henry, Christian, Otunga and Johnny Laurangitis in the same segment? Hell yeah!

Smackdown Chamber - After a slow start they cranked it up a few notches. Barrett was booked strong. Highlights were the 2-man chamber floor suplex on Big Show, Big Show breaking into Bryan's pod, Barrett and
Rhodes double-teaming Big Show, and Santino eliminating Rhodes and Barrett to great applause. Santino v Bryan was epic! I really thought Santino was going to win, then lose the title back to Bryan on SD before Mania.

Swagger v Gabriel - US Title Match (Raw v SD) - Filler match but I'm a Gabriel fan so didn't mind.

Kane v Cena - Great brawler match to end an awesome PPV. Kane's suffocation submission is one of my favourite moves. It was pretty even until Cena let loose, which (replacing the 3 moves of doom with a few choice objects and AA'ing Kane off the ambulance like a ragdoll) was actually cheer-worthy instead of groan-worthy.

This is why the Elimination Chamber is one of the favourite PPVs every year. All it lacked was a midcard title match with an actual build-up. Reading a few sites and it seems a lot of people thought the PPV was crap. It was miles better than the Rumble and thoroughly entertaining, IMO, but each to their own.

[Target Practice]

Add another one to the 'Santino' bandwagon for me - I sat half-watching the PPV and half-playing WMMA3, and the second half of the Smackdown chamber was the first segment to really get my attention to the exclusion of missing something happening on WMMA3 - I was pleased they avoided going down the cliched route of Bryan/Show as the final two, and like a couple of others already mentioned, for a second I really thought he was actually going to pull it off.

As for the rest of the PPV, I didn't think it was anything particularly noteworthy - I really don't like the whole Kane/Cena feud in the first place - if you're building up to one of the biggest matches of the decade, I don't see the benefit in starting a half-assed feud with a returning monster heel like Kane when everyone knows full well that no matter what happens, this is as far as the feud can go.
Not sure why they opened with the Raw chamber, particularly as the Smackdown chamber had a much weaker lineup - if you're going to have a match like Justin Gabriel vs Jack Swagger, surely that's got to be your curtain jerker? This is why I think the WWE really needs that Tag Team division back - they're ideal warm-up matches for star-heavy PPVs - how many times did the New Age Outlaws provide a solid, entertaining opening to a PPV without burning out the crowd?

[bigtplaystew]

Even though Kane said Cena was Embracing the Hate on Raw last week, but after Cena winning....where did the hate go?

Must went over the ambulance with Kane.

I saw alot of this kind of thinking on my facebook last night. Alot of people seem to feel that if Cena didn't turn heel that the whole Kane "embrace the hate" storyline was for nothing.

I don't think the plan was ever for Cena to go heel. The plan was for him to "overcome the hate" not embrace it haha. They're just trying to come up with new ways to keep him as top face.

[juggaloninjalee]

Must went over the ambulance with Kane.

I saw alot of this kind of thinking on my facebook last night. Alot of people seem to feel that if Cena didn't turn heel that the whole Kane "embrace the hate" storyline was for nothing.

I don't think the plan was ever for Cena to go heel. The plan was for him to "overcome the hate" not embrace it haha. They're just trying to come up with new ways to keep him as top face.

Yeah it seems like they wanted to give his character a little bit of progression towards having an edge to him.

They want people to cheer for him at Mania against the Rock I think. This next month will be interesting!

[Target Practice]

Problem is, there is no-one but no-one you could put in that ring opposite The Rock on April 1 and not have them be booed out of the building. You're facing one of the biggest stars the WWE has ever had, with more crossover appeal than anyone else bar possibly Hulk Hogan in his prime (and let's be honest, Rocky's movies have been much better... :p) in a match you've been hyping for over a year.
Oh, and you're doing it in his backyard.

There is nothing WWE can do to stop Cena getting a verbal pasting at 'Mania, and I have to say I don't really know what the hell they're going to do - there's no point turning Cena heel, because the guy just can't do it. There are natural faces (Steamboat, Cena, AJ Styles) and there are natural heels (Flair, Jarrett, Vince McMahon)*, and playing them against type just doesn't work - Cena is one of those - all you're going to do by turning him is suck what heat he has and also massively hurt your merchandise sales.

I'll be honest, I can't see Rock jobbing to Cena in his hometown in a match with this much buildup - on the same note though, having Cena lay down for a guy who's been inactive for the better half of a decade and will vanish again after the match is going to seriously hurt his credibility - where does he go from there? There's already a shortage of real main-event heels in the WWE - there's plenty of upper midcard heels like Barrett, Christian, Mark Henry etc, but none of those really make for an interesting feud in my eyes. Maybe if they'd held off on the Kane angle until after 'mania, that would have been ideal, but they went early with that one, and it's pretty much done now.
Maybe I'm being negative, but I just get the feeling that WWE have kind of backed themselves into a corner with this one.

(* - before people start throwing things, I'm not comparing the names mentioned in any way other than the fact that they all tend to play one side of a coin better than another.)

[moon_lit_tears]

All I know is I wanted Barrett to win, sad he didn't. :(

[cappyboy]

All I know is I wanted Barrett to win, sad he didn't. :(

What did he need to win for? He's going to have enough on his plate when he discovers his father is Stefano DiMera. :)

[ChrisKid]

RAW Chamber: good didn't see Punk walking out with the WWE Championship but i'm not complaining, wasn't expecting Kofi to last to long but seeing the DDT on the steel was pretty awesome, Miz lasting till final two is a plus.

Beth vs Tamina: wanted a win for Tamina but hopefully Beth versus Kharma will come out of it.

SD Chamber: even though i knew Santino wasn't going to win i was marking out when he hit the Cobra on Bryan, wanted Wade to win to see England vs Ireland at Mania, Sheamus hitting the Celtic Cross on Bryan was cool.

Swagger vs Gabriel: didn't feel that good even though i like both men i didn't really like it (probably because hornswoggle was involved).

John Cena vs Kane: in my opinion i thought this was rather crap, i was like OMG Cena's gonna AA Kane off the Ambulance onto the concrete, he does it, oh there was a box there, rather boring to watch, hearing Lawler kissing up to Cena during the match also annoyed me, but then again i hate Lawler on commentary

Overall Rating: 6/10
A chamber should've went on last considering the PPV is called Elimination Chamber

[Astil]

I thought Cena was a pretty good heel actually...

[TakerNGN74]

I was at the Elimination Chamber PPV and thought that after reading some feedback from you guys that I would throw in my own.

Dark Match: Hunico defeated Alex Riley, nothing special but at least Hunico got on PPV even if it was a dark match.

Raw Chamber: A great way to open the show although I might have had the World Title Chamber open instead. I thought that the match was insane and it was good and everything that happened as far as the eliminations were concerned I expected except for Jerichos early elimination.

Beth Phoenix vs. Tamina: Better match than I expected and a great way to make Beth look strong if Kharma is indeed coming after her next.

Smackdown Chamber: I thought it was good although I liked the Raw chamber better, Santino being the last one eliminated gave him a huge rub that he deserves and WWE made me believe that he was actually going to win the belt somehow. Glad to see that Bryan retained and that both champions will hopefully keep their belts going into Mania.

Swagger vs. Gabriel: Waste of time in my opinion.

Kane vs. Cena: Okay I didn't mind this match but I did mind the fact that it was the main event of the pay per view. After all the PPV is called "Elimination Chamber" Not "Ambulance Match". It was a good match and it the outcome was exactly what I expected.

Going to Raw tonight, first time I have ever done two WWE shows on back to back nights and I can't wait.

[Fantabulous]

Santino winning would have got a major pop for the surprise factor but then reality would sink in and people would crap on it because it would be a step too far into the ridiculous. Santino is a cult act. Nothing more and nothing less. Treating him as anything else would be stupid and risks damaging him. Take notes on Ryder for what happens when you treat a cult favourite as something other than a cult favourite.

Cena is getting booed at Wrestlemania and will be treated by the fans there as a complete heel. It's almost comical how far WWE are going to try and ensure he gets cheered, even confiscating any and all visible anti-Cena signs at the PPV last night, because anyone with a clue knows that Cena just isn't getting cheered against Rock. Ever. WWE will no doubt work their hardest to try get Cena cheered against Rock, but it isn't happening and I have no doubt that when it fails and Cena is booed mercilessly at Wrestlemania treated like the biggest heel in the world, WWE will blame it on the Miami fans and convince themselves that it would have worked in another building. It wouldn't have. Cena is getting booed against The Rock no matter where they hold the match. Logic says the guy who stays should go over the guy who isn't staying, and a Cena win in Miami might legitimately start a riot, but it really doesn't matter who wins because WWE will drop the ball on the follow up and after a couple of weeks Cena losing will have had no impact.

[Astil]

Take notes on Ryder for what happens when you treat a cult favourite as something other than a cult favourite.


Hm?

[Wrestling Century]

Cena is getting booed at Wrestlemania and will be treated by the fans there as a complete heel. It's almost comical how far WWE are going to try and ensure he gets cheered, even confiscating any and all visible anti-Cena signs at the PPV last night, because anyone with a clue knows that Cena just isn't getting cheered against Rock.

The dumbest thing about them trying so hard to ensure Cena doesn't get booed is the fact that they are selling Anti-Cena shirts. But they thought that it was a good idea to confiscate the Anti-Cena signs. What the? :p

[Wrestling Century]

Hm?

Hm indeed. The reason that Zack Ryder has been flopping lately IMO is because they stuck him in a horrible fued. Not because they aren't treating him like "a cult favorite".

[evileddie10]

One thing that I just realised, Daniel Bryan versus Sheamus was supposed to happen at last years WrestleMania... But ended up being the dark match, lumberjack/battle royale. So it seems to me that the Bryan vs. Sheamus match from last year will actual happen this year. Dont see the E making the WHC match a dark match, so it seems safe to say Bryan-Sheamus will actually happen at this WM.

[bigtplaystew]

Was WWE taking the signs away or was it the arena? This has been an issue of confusion in the past. It seems weird that they'd address Cena getting booed on TV yet they'd have their own people at every door in the arena taking signs away. Especially when a bunch were shown on camera during the PPV...


I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just questioning it because I think it's an odd turn of events. It makes no sense to take signs away then show a bunch on TV later that night. It was part of the storyline that Cena got a negative crowd reaction that night and was addressed later on during the match with an "After all Cena's been through..." type storyline from the announcers.


Anyway.

John Cena gets booed. A lot. He also gets cheered. A lot. And he's still their top merch guy. The same dirt sheets that have been reporting the 'E taking signs away reported just last week that Cena was still on top in merch sales with Punk and Ryder trailing much closer behind him than anyone else has in the recent past.

So I mean it's not like it's this weird conspiracy to think they're trying to keep Cena face. Cena is face. It's also rather obvious. They ran with this Kane angle for the sole purpose of getting people to cheer Cena again and to give him something that was SUPPOSED to be good.

Understand that I am in no way shape or form under the opinion that he'll be cheered in Miami against the Rock. No way. The WWE fans are going to go absolutely nuts during that match for the Rock. I just doing think anyone's anticipating some unprecedented disaster when Cena does get booed. He's been getting booed for years at this point and still is a proven draw.

[Jaysin]

RF Video is releasing ECW DVDs...

Cactus Jack: The ECW Collection (http://www.highspots.com/product.asp?id=26629)
ECW: Raven vs Sandman (http://www.highspots.com/product.asp?id=26606)
Public Enemy in ECW (http://www.highspots.com/product.asp?id=26608)
ECW: Dreamer vs Raven (http://www.highspots.com/product.asp?id=26519)

I read a review of the Raven vs Dreamer set and RF Video copyrights are slapped on everything in it, but I thought WWE bought the entire ECW library?

[GhostDogg]

"Bro-ski for Ho-Ski?"

"The Rock and Eve are Scandalous B*tches??"

"for your information I am disease free, I would like to KEEP it that way"

So much for the PG CENA...I am LIKING this CENA ALOT BETTER!!!

[supershot]

Wow did that just happen! I loved every second of that!

[20LEgend]

Eve is awful.

[Jaysin]

Eve is awful.

The only entertaining thing I've ever see her do is fall on her keester at a house show I was at while she was interviewing a fan.

[supershot]

I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just questioning it because I think it's an odd turn of events. It makes no sense to take signs away then show a bunch on TV later that night.


FWIW they checked my sign before I entered

[GhostDogg]

DAMN!!!!


I am glad they are inducting Ron Simmons, he was a BEAST back in the day..

[Astil]

This crowd during the taker segment = dumb. never before have I been so disappointing in a crowd.

[GhostDogg]

HELL IN A CELL????


......SPEECHLESS...

And what the hell is Taker patting Trips on the shoulder for... is it kinda like saying

"Congrats. You just signed your own DEATH WARRANT"..and he grins...



I am interested to see where this goes?

[supershot]

HELL IN A CELL????
......SPEECHLESS...

And what the hell is Taker patting Trips on the shoulder for... is it kinda like saying

"Congrats. You just signed your own DEATH WARRANT"..and he grins...

I am interested to see where this goes?

To me it looked like it did when Triple H walked out on him. So I'm assuming Taker just said no to the Hell In A Cell match.

[20LEgend]

This crowd during the taker segment = dumb. never before have I been so disappointing in a crowd.

I know, I hate the "what" chant in almost any situation, but this went ever further... idiots!

[Wrestling Century]

I know, I hate the "what" chant in almost any situation, but this went ever further... idiots!

Indeed. Someone yelled out "You Suck!" at Undertaker when everyone was quiet, and later someone yelled "Overrated" at him. IMO this crowd has been the most disrespectful crowd ever. They aren't just cheering or booing, they are crapping on every segment.

[supershot]

To me it looked like it did when Triple H walked out on him. So I'm assuming Taker just said no to the Hell In A Cell match.

Maybe not they just announced it officially.

Someone also screamed "RETIRE!"

[Tha Black Phenom]

They're packing it on. WrestleMania looks like a fat Jamaican patty now. :p

[GhostDogg]

teasing Cena TURN...again?

[20LEgend]

I don't think this has anything to do with a turn, in fact I think people are more likely to like and cheer this more edgy Cena.

Brilliant promo I thought, I don't see any hint of a turn myself just building interest in the match, which he most certainly is.

[Prophet]

teasing Cena TURN...again?

Nah, not a turn. An edge, maybe, a hardness, maybe, but not a turn. That's not to say that April 9th, the possibility won't be there, following the pattern of the Rock, when he was booed against Hogan, but right now, I think it's Cena being painted as the champion of the people. (As opposed to the People's Champion.)

I have to say though, Cena was really solid. Intense, passionate, honest. And not totally wrong. It's nice to see Cena add that depth.

I also find the term camel fur to be more amusing than it should be. lol

[Wrestling Century]

That botch looked awful. I hope that those three are ok. :(

[20LEgend]

Commetators said broken arm for Wade. Would be a shame for him to miss out on WM.

[Jaysin]

Barrett walked out with a splint on his arm.

Ziggler worked the dark match.

[codey]

They're not still doing th pg thing anymore, are they? Because that first segment with Cena and Eve was far from it.

[TakerNGN74]

They're not still doing th pg thing anymore, are they? Because that first segment with Cena and Eve was far from it.

Yeah are still doing the PG thing but they do have some stuff that isn't PG and the Cena Eve segment was a great example of it.

Went to Elimination Chamber last night as I stated earlier and Raw tonight and both shows were really fun live. There were two dark matches after Raw went off of the air, CM Punk defeated Dolph Ziggler to retain the WWE title, and John Cena defeated Kane once again in the post show main event.

About the comments on the crowd even though I was in the crowd I wasn't in the group of people that were being morons and I totally see where you guys are coming from when you were saying that.

[Jaysin]

It's suddenly wrong for someone to say a wrestler is overrated? It doesn't matter how "legendary" a wrestler is, not everyone is going to like them.

Undertaker got boring years ago.

[Wrestling Century]

It's suddenly wrong for someone to say a wrestler is overrated? It doesn't matter how "legendary" a wrestler is, not everyone is going to like them.

Undertaker got boring years ago.

No, it isn't that. It seemed to me like those people were purposely trying to throw 'Taker off. It ruined the segment, because everyone else was in hushed silence trying to listen to 'Taker's promo, and those people were just screaming out random, stupid things.

[BHK1978]

No, it isn't that. It seemed to me like those people were purposely trying to throw 'Taker off. It ruined the segment, because everyone else was in hushed silence trying to listen to 'Taker's promo, and those people were just screaming out random, stupid things.

Which is their right to do, they paid their money they have every right to say what they want.

[20LEgend]

But "what!" chants are the most annoying thing ever! :D

[BHK1978]

But "what!" chants are the most annoying thing ever! :D

I don't know about that, the chant that your fellow countrymen do is really annoying. The, "Who are u!" chant is what I am talking about...or whatever it is they are saying.:D

[Target Practice]

Which is their right to do, they paid their money they have every right to say what they want.

I think there's a line - yeah, in the middle of a match, sure - scream what you want, but when someone's in the middle of a promo that's setting one of the bigger angles for 'Mania... just STFU and listen, or if you really can't do that, go take a pee break or get a hot dog or something. Other people paid their money too, and they didn't pay it to sit next to some idiot with an overinflated sense of opinion screaming random words in the middle of a promo.

[Basmat01]

Im ordering wrestlemania this year first time ive ordered a PPV since WM20 lol the card is looking good so far.

[milamber]

Slap on a skank gimmick and Eve becomes interesting. That segment with Cena had me laughing out loud.

Otunga won a match!

"Last of our kind" - I guess Kane and Rock don't count.

I love Cena smack-talking Rocky. "You're going to have to kill me to beat me!"

Battle Royale - Suited Punk on commentary! There were some good (but hazardous) elimination spots. Shame about Barrett's injury. Jericho was always going to win.

[milamber]

Punk beat Ziggler in one dark match and Cena beat Kane in the other.

This week's Smackdown's dark match was Ryback (Skip Sheffield) beating A-Ri. Also, Brodus Clay v Heath Slater was edited out of the show.

[juggaloninjalee]

"Last of our kind" - I guess Kane and Rock don't count.

I love Cena smack-talking Rocky. "You're going to have to kill me to beat me!"

Battle Royale - Suited Punk on commentary! There were some good (but hazardous) elimination spots. Shame about Barrett's injury. Jericho was always going to win.

1) Last of our kind... Kane, Big Show, Jericho, and Rock don't count? Jericho has been wrestling longer than HHH right? Kane has been around longer than HHH too I think.

2) The Cena promos were very strong last night I think. Loving this new edge they are giving him.

3) I liked the rumble match to end the show. I'm hoping that Barrett isn't seriously injured.

I came out of the show being happy with the 2 title matches at Mania. Excited about Rock vs Cena, and I actually am starting to not mind HHH vs Taker because of the HIAC stipulation. Maybe Taker will get thrown off the cage or something.

[jjohns44]

I love Daniel Bryan's crabwalk to the ring. Will miss it when he loses the title though. It will look awkward for him to be crabwalking to the ring going 'YAH WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION' without it around his waist hahahaha.

WHY THE HELL DID THEY DECIDE TO DO THEIR LITTLE WHAT CRAP AT THE UNDERTAKER?! I thought it was an unspoken rule not to do WHAT at faces unless it was Stone Cold or the now face R-Truth.

[Astil]

Which is their right to do, they paid their money they have every right to say what they want.

No, no they don't. They paid to see an event, not to be a part of it.

[juggaloninjalee]

No, no they don't. They paid to see an event, not to be a part of it.

So by that logic is it ok if every single at the venue just sits there the whole time and doesn't cheer or anything? They act like they are in a movie theatre just watching a show?

At an event like wrestling or a sporting even you do pay to be a part of the show. That is what makes it so unique. So I disagree with you. Cheering and yelling is what you pay for to go to a wrestling event. I am not agreeing with their actions at the event but they do have the right to yell.

[Target Practice]

As I said above - there's a line. They have the right to be a part of the show, but they don't have a right to disrupt the show for other paying fans.

[Astil]

So by that logic is it ok if every single at the venue just sits there the whole time and doesn't cheer or anything? They act like they are in a movie theatre just watching a show?

At an event like wrestling or a sporting even you do pay to be a part of the show. That is what makes it so unique. So I disagree with you. Cheering and yelling is what you pay for to go to a wrestling event. I am not agreeing with their actions at the event but they do have the right to yell.

Jack--- fan at football game gets kicked out for being beligerant. He was 'cheering and yelling' but ruining it for those around him. Same idea.

You don't have the right to ruin the show for everyone else. Especially when you can here others in the crowd telling them to "shut up". You are not more important than the crowd, shut up and sit down.

EDIT: Not saying you don't have a right to yell, holler or chant. I have no issue with bor-ing or You can't wres-tle chants. During a match. When it's an angle, let the story be told.

[20LEgend]

In my view it's like a heckler at a Comedy show, they usually get kicked out. Or at a gig if someone was shouting while the musician is trying to play.

At a wrestling show while they may have the "right" to do it, I think you should be respectful to those fellow paying customers who want to enjoy the show, it certainly put m e off watch from home on TV.

[steesh07]

This really is shaping up to be a tremendous card, quadruple main event:

Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - I can see it being a OK match, not too excited for it but I'm sure they'll do good. Really interesting that this was a dark match just 12 months ago, just goes to show what hard work does.

The Undertaker vs. Triple H - If it's HIAC I can see it being interesting, if not then I see it being the same as last year.

The Rock vs. John Cena - Really looking forward to this for a change, just hope Rock will do the job, if not I'm sure Cena is professional enough not to work stiff/half-heartedly.

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - I can see this being an epic. Need I say more.

Throw in a terrible Divas match, Shaq vs. Big Show and we might get a good show, really am interested to see what happens with Santino, Cody Rhodes and R-Truth between now and Mania.

[tommyb]

interested to see what happens with Santino, Cody Rhodes and R-Truth between now and Mania.

It looks as though they may have been shaping up for Truth to tag with Kofi to compete for the tag titles.

Although, is it confirmed whether or not there will be a Money in the Bank match? If so, that may explain what a few guys will be doing.

[juggaloninjalee]

This really is shaping up to be a tremendous card, quadruple main event:

Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - I can see it being a OK match, not too excited for it but I'm sure they'll do good. Really interesting that this was a dark match just 12 months ago, just goes to show what hard work does.

The Undertaker vs. Triple H - If it's HIAC I can see it being interesting, if not then I see it being the same as last year.

The Rock vs. John Cena - Really looking forward to this for a change, just hope Rock will do the job, if not I'm sure Cena is professional enough not to work stiff/half-heartedly.

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - I can see this being an epic. Need I say more.

Throw in a terrible Divas match, Shaq vs. Big Show and we might get a good show, really am interested to see what happens with Santino, Cody Rhodes and R-Truth between now and Mania.

I dunno if Shaq vs Big Show would be that good. Could Cody Rhodes be facing Big Show based on how Big Show got eliminated? Divas can be used in a dark match. Wouldn't mind Beth Phoenix vs Kharma at Mania though. Or Beth vs Natalya even.

I plan on ordering Wrestlemania for sure this year. Last year I paid $10 to watch it at a friends. This will be the 1st year in a long time I pay for it on my own.

[djthefunkchris]

In my view it's like a heckler at a Comedy show, they usually get kicked out. Or at a gig if someone was shouting while the musician is trying to play.

At a wrestling show while they may have the "right" to do it, I think you should be respectful to those fellow paying customers who want to enjoy the show, it certainly put m e off watch from home on TV.

/nod, This (and what others said). I don't mind the "You can't Wrestle" or "Cena Sucks" etc. stuff. When your ruining the show for others, just to ruin it... it becomes something different. I don't mind a heckler with a good comedian, because they will overcome it by putting the heckler on the spot. I do mind someone just being annoying though, and bassically ruining the show for everyone else. There is no reason why someone would do that other then to really try to ruin it, or try to stuff their opinion down other's throats.

What irritates me more then anything with these types of things, is how wrong the whole reasoning is for doing stuff like that in the first place... "If Taker steps down it gives someone else a chance to move up". That's only in theory, and mainly said by announcer's that are "selling" you something. There is no guarrentee anyone can take any other persons spot, and it definately doesn't make it more likely if you get rid of the obstacle... Cena, Taker, Kane, Orton, etc... all of them could leave, and it wouldn't make anyone else a star. A star makes themselves with charisma, and getting people interested in them. That's why someone that can't talk, but is flashy and fun to watch in the ring can become more popular then someone that's the best wrestler in the world, talks circle's around them, etc. The skill that matter's is entertainment, no matter if it's inside the ring or not. Taking out all the "Top Dawgs" doesn't guarrentee anything but other's that are charismatic to fill shoe's. CM Punk did his thing and got to it. Anyone else that wants that has to figure out how to get people to invest in them, and they will succeed as well... Doesn't matter how many Taker's, Cena's, Orton's, Rock's, or Austin's that are out there.

Bassically, all I'm saying is if everyone was interesting enough, The bottum could start at an Undertaker level of interest, and go up from there. However, everyone is NOT interesting enough yet, and so they will never achieve that kind of success until they are (reguardless of who is considered to be "placeholding" at any time).

[bigtplaystew]

Eve in one night accomplished what Kane couldn't in months: to get people to cheer Cena again.

[Astil]

Eve in one night accomplished what Kane couldn't in months: to get people to cheer Cena again.

Now, I think that was all Cena. Eve sucked the life out of the promo more than added to it.

[ChrisKid]

Eve was awful in the promo but done her job and got Cena cheers, guessing Ezekiel Jackson is going to be future endeavored soon.

[steesh07]

For me I was still sick of Cena during the Eve segment, but his "pipe bomb" made me really like him, everything he said had to be agreed with.

[Unregistered]

I just want to say it was more then just a couple people chanting what to Taker. The segment until Triple H came out was pretty flat and boring. I'm sorry, but I thought it was great just because how bad it was going. I don't blame it on Taker, but there wasn't alot of emotion going into the promo anyways. He's a vet, he dealt with it well enough. As far as I can tell it all stopped once it started getting good anyways. It's not like anyone truly missed anything, Taker was just reguritating the same things that've been said the past few weeks anyways.

Out of interest, where was the show held?

[Unregistered]

RF Video is releasing ECW DVDs...

Cactus Jack: The ECW Collection (http://www.highspots.com/product.asp?id=26629)
ECW: Raven vs Sandman (http://www.highspots.com/product.asp?id=26606)
Public Enemy in ECW (http://www.highspots.com/product.asp?id=26608)
ECW: Dreamer vs Raven (http://www.highspots.com/product.asp?id=26519)

I read a review of the Raven vs Dreamer set and RF Video copyrights are slapped on everything in it, but I thought WWE bought the entire ECW library?

Sorry to double post but

RF Video owns the right to the video, as well so to speak. Or I believe at least, what they taped they own the rights too. They have alot of ECW stuff, including all the comm. tapes and years of telivision..

[Astil]

I just want to say it was more then just a couple people chanting what to Taker. The segment until Triple H came out was pretty flat and boring. I'm sorry, but I thought it was great just because how bad it was going. I don't blame it on Taker, but there wasn't alot of emotion going into the promo anyways. He's a vet, he dealt with it well enough. As far as I can tell it all stopped once it started getting good anyways. It's not like anyone truly missed anything, Taker was just reguritating the same things that've been said the past few weeks anyways.

Out of interest, where was the show held?

Minnesota

[Jaysin]

It was a SEVENTEEN MINUTE long promo. I'm sorry, but if I was there, I'd be yelling "boring" and "overrated" and the like as well.

Undertaker's promos have been boring hell for a long time. Him being the "last of a dying breed" doesn't change that. Do something new. Turn heel. Hell, do the Big Evil stuff again. It was insanely more interesting and entertaining then more of the same old same old.

Am I trying to disrespect Undertaker? No, but if someone is boring me then I don't care how legendary they are, they're boring.

[ChrisKid]

truthfully i was bored during the HHH/Taker promo, one because i don't like either guy and two because both to me are just not entertaining to watch.

[LoNdOn]

I don't know about that, the chant that your fellow countrymen do is really annoying. The, "Who are u!" chant is what I am talking about...or whatever it is they are saying.:D

I think you will find it is, "Oooooooo R YA!"

If we are talking about painfully tedious chants, the "USA, USA" chant that you guys do whenever there is a competitor in the ring that isn't American, or, and this is my favourite, when none of the competitors in the ring are American. :D

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight my good sir, otherwise I will bust a cap in your bottom! :p

[BHK1978]

I think you will find it is, "Oooooooo R YA!"

If we are talking about painfully tedious chants, the "USA, USA" chant that you guys do whenever there is a competitor in the ring that isn't American, or, and this is my favourite, when none of the competitors in the ring are American. :D

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight my good sir, otherwise I will bust a cap in your bottom! :p

There was a TNA match a couple of weeks ago when all the people in the ring were Americans and the crowd started to chant, "USA! USA!" Taz pointed out on commentary that everyone was from America.:D

So you will not get me to disagree with you on the USA chant.

[Jaysin]

There was a TNA match a couple of weeks ago when all the people in the ring were Americans and the crowd started to chant, "USA! USA!" Taz pointed out on commentary that everyone was from America.:D

So you will not get me to disagree with you on the USA chant.

There was also a time when Hernandez was facing Magnus I believe it was and the crowd started chanting USA and it was in favor of Magnus...sooo...

Yeah, that chant is annoying. At one Raw I went to there was a USA Chant and I started chanting Canada. Got a few people to join in. It was fun.

[djthefunkchris]

There was also a time when Hernandez was facing Magnus I believe it was and the crowd started chanting USA and it was in favor of Magnus...sooo...

Yeah, that chant is annoying. At one Raw I went to there was a USA Chant and I started chanting Canada. Got a few people to join in. It was fun.

That's just as bad... Chanting Canada when your from the USA... bassically it's the same thing that was being discussed, but backwards/vise versa, or however you say it... But I like that you did it, lol.

It reminds me of a Browns vs Steelers game I went to as a teenager. I'm from Cleveland, and everyone on the train/rapid transit/whatever you want to call it, we were all bummed because Cleveland lost, and well, we get rowdy. For some reason when I was getting off, a guy said "Yeah, those ref's cheated us didn't they?" I replied "I'm a Pittsburgh stealer's fan!" and jumped off just before the doors shut. There was so much junk that flied up against the door windows, I thought they were going to break, but I thought it was the funniest thing. My friends did too, because they couldn't quit talking about it for like a month.

[Jaysin]

That's just as bad... Chanting Canada when your from the USA... bassically it's the same thing that was being discussed, but backwards/vise versa, or however you say it... But I like that you did it, lol.

It reminds me of a Browns vs Steelers game I went to as a teenager. I'm from Cleveland, and everyone on the train/rapid transit/whatever you want to call it, we were all bummed because Cleveland lost, and well, we get rowdy. For some reason when I was getting off, a guy said "Yeah, those ref's cheated us didn't they?" I replied "I'm a Pittsburgh stealer's fan!" and jumped off just before the doors shut. There was so much junk that flied up against the door windows, I thought they were going to break, but I thought it was the funniest thing. My friends did too, because they couldn't quit talking about it for like a month.

I'm a Brown's fan, I should be throwing junk at you too :p

The USA chants only seem appropriate if it's ya know, meaningful. Like if the wrestler the American is facing is someone the USA is at odds with in real life, like Russia at one point, or Middle Eastern and the heel is playing up to that role.

[Astil]

It was a SEVENTEEN MINUTE long promo. I'm sorry, but if I was there, I'd be yelling "boring" and "overrated" and the like as well.

They started during the first minute. Length of the promo had nothing to do with it. This build is the first we've seen of Taker since last Mania. It's not being tired of him. It was just idiots being idiots.

[LoNdOn]

There was also a time when Hernandez was facing Magnus I believe it was and the crowd started chanting USA and it was in favor of Magnus...sooo...

Yeah, that chant is annoying. At one Raw I went to there was a USA Chant and I started chanting Canada. Got a few people to join in. It was fun.

Reminds me of an incident that happened to me a while back.

I was on holiday two years ago during the World Cup and in the game between Spain and Germany, there were a hoard of Spanish students there who all heartily sang their national anthem at the start of the game.

Me, being the equal opportunist that I am, decided it was only fair to stand up in a room where I was outnumbered 150 to 1 and blast the German national anthem at the top of my lungs with my hand on my heart.

This was all well and good until I realised that I only knew the National Socialist (points for knowing what I mean) version of the German national anthem. I had committed myself by this point however, and realised I now had to finish. :p

To give credit to the Spanish exchange students, they cheered and clapped when I finished.

[Jaysin]

They started during the first minute. Length of the promo had nothing to do with it. This build is the first we've seen of Taker since last Mania. It's not being tired of him. It was just idiots being idiots.

So people are allowed to crap all over Cena, Sting, Flair, Angle, Hogan, Foley, and Jericho, but Undertaker is off limits?

[Astil]

So people are allowed to crap all over Cena, Sting, Flair, Angle, Hogan, Foley, and Jericho, but Undertaker is off limits?

When it's a small few, and the rest of the crowd is telling them to shut up, yes. This isn't about who, I'm no Taker mark and don't give a rip about his 'pull'.

[Jaysin]

The anti-Cena stuff started off with a VERY small minority. So that's a load of crap.

[TakerNGN74]

Just thought I would mention this since people were talking about the "What?" chants last night, I did go to the show and I wasn't a part of the people saying what.

A fan behind me during the Taker, Triple H segment made a good point they said that half of todays WWE fans are too young to even know where the What chant came from. I couldn't agree more and it seems that people say what just to say it and they don't remember what wrestler started the whole thing.

[nucleardonkey]

So people are allowed to crap all over Cena, Sting, Flair, Angle, Hogan, Foley, and Jericho, but Undertaker is off limits?

I believe the difference here and why people are making such a big deal about it is that throughout their careers guys like Cena, Sting, Flair, Angle, Hogan, Foley, and Jericho have all either had their moments of serious regret where they either said or did something to merit a disrespectful reaction. Or have burned out the audience by portraying the same character for so long without any sort of change that the audience is sick of it. In Taker's case however he has done nothing really to merit such a response. He makes sure to keep the character fresh in some way whenever he returns with it so he's not got that "we've seen this already" factor of Cena, Jericho, and Foley to a certain extent. He protects the character and makes sure whatever the situation that he's taken seriously unlike Sting, Flair, Hogan, and Foley. And he's never had a really embarrassing media moment for fans to tear apart like Angle, Hogan, and Flair all have.

What it comes down to is The Undertaker is one of the few wrestlers going these days who has earned every ounce of respect he gets and then some not only for his in ring work but also how he carries himself outside of the ring. That's where the crowd last night was completely in the wrong and just being idiots for the sake of being idiots, because unlike nearly anyone else you could name The Undertaker has earned truck loads of respect and he hasn't really done anything over his career to lose any of that respect.

[Hive]

Reminds me of an incident that happened to me a while back.

I was on holiday two years ago during the World Cup and in the game between Spain and Germany, there were a hoard of Spanish students there who all heartily sang their national anthem at the start of the game.

Me, being the equal opportunist that I am, decided it was only fair to stand up in a room where I was outnumbered 150 to 1 and blast the German national anthem at the top of my lungs with my hand on my heart.

This was all well and good until I realised that I only knew the National Socialist (points for knowing what I mean) version of the German national anthem. I had committed myself by this point however, and realised I now had to finish. :p

To give credit to the Spanish exchange students, they cheered and clapped when I finished.

This is awesome, I can totally relate. It's the only version of the anthem I know as well, and I too enjoy singing it when Germany plays. Just for the hell of it. :D

[Astil]

The anti-Cena stuff started off with a VERY small minority. So that's a load of crap.

Yeah, well the anti-Cena garbage ticks me off too, so not really a good example...

[Tha Black Phenom]

The anti-Cena stuff started off with a VERY small minority. So that's a load of crap.

But when it started, Cena didn't deserve half the accolades he deserves today. He was just a WWE champion climbing the ranks who had to prove himself. On the other vein, someone like Triple H... a certified Hall of Famer, would he get some crap flung at him, no one would probably say a word. Because his career has been riddled with polarized opinions. Someone like Taker has that special something, and it's largely known that he generates unprecedented respect from behind the curtains just like within the WWE fanbase.

Say, if HBK was still wrestling, and he was out there cutting a promo, I'd bet a bottom dollar all the detractors in the crowd calling him out would get told to shut up too. It may sound trite but it is what it is; at some point, if your status within your profession speaks for itself things like that are gonna happen.

[jjohns44]

Just thought I would mention this since people were talking about the "What?" chants last night, I did go to the show and I wasn't a part of the people saying what.

A fan behind me during the Taker, Triple H segment made a good point they said that half of todays WWE fans are too young to even know where the What chant came from. I couldn't agree more and it seems that people say what just to say it and they don't remember what wrestler started the whole thing.
True that! But good luck finding out WHY the what?! got started in the first place!

I remember Stone Cold came up with the What when he was trying to call Christian (personally, not in the ring or anything) and the phone had terrible reception and Stone Cold would keep saying 'WHAT?!'

[jjohns44]

Just thought I would mention this since people were talking about the "What?" chants last night, I did go to the show and I wasn't a part of the people saying what.

A fan behind me during the Taker, Triple H segment made a good point they said that half of todays WWE fans are too young to even know where the What chant came from. I couldn't agree more and it seems that people say what just to say it and they don't remember what wrestler started the whole thing.
True that! But good luck finding out HOW the what?! got started in the first place!

I remember Stone Cold came up with the What when he was trying to call Christian (personally, not in the ring or anything) and the phone had terrible reception and Stone Cold would keep saying 'WHAT?!'

[Prophet]

Just thought I would mention this since people were talking about the "What?" chants last night, I did go to the show and I wasn't a part of the people saying what.

A fan behind me during the Taker, Triple H segment made a good point they said that half of todays WWE fans are too young to even know where the What chant came from. I couldn't agree more and it seems that people say what just to say it and they don't remember what wrestler started the whole thing.

I have never liked the What chant. When Austin did it, or now, never enjoyed it. Irritates me.

And in a somewhat related note, I took my brother down to see FCW sometime last year, and there's a tradition there (not sure about the WWE, since I've never been to a big show) when the ring announcer enters the ring, every time the audience goes "Woo!" in a pervy Flair like manner. So we go to the event, and sitting next to me is a 9 year old kid, munching on some candy, excited to see wrestling. First time he hears the woo, second time he matches up why it's happening, and the third time, this 9 year old kid is wooing with everyone else, like a young pervy Ric Flair. To this day, not sure if it's creepy or awesome. lol

[Jaysin]

I believe the difference here and why people are making such a big deal about it is that throughout their careers guys like Cena, Sting, Flair, Angle, Hogan, Foley, and Jericho have all either had their moments of serious regret where they either said or did something to merit a disrespectful reaction. Or have burned out the audience by portraying the same character for so long without any sort of change that the audience is sick of it. In Taker's case however he has done nothing really to merit such a response. He makes sure to keep the character fresh in some way whenever he returns with it so he's not got that "we've seen this already" factor of Cena, Jericho, and Foley to a certain extent. He protects the character and makes sure whatever the situation that he's taken seriously unlike Sting, Flair, Hogan, and Foley. And he's never had a really embarrassing media moment for fans to tear apart like Angle, Hogan, and Flair all have.

What it comes down to is The Undertaker is one of the few wrestlers going these days who has earned every ounce of respect he gets and then some not only for his in ring work but also how he carries himself outside of the ring. That's where the crowd last night was completely in the wrong and just being idiots for the sake of being idiots, because unlike nearly anyone else you could name The Undertaker has earned truck loads of respect and he hasn't really done anything over his career to lose any of that respect.

How is Undertaker "keeping it fresh"?

He's been doing the same thing for years. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve respect. I'm saying that respect shouldn't make him impervious to negativity.

I respect Undertaker a lot. That heel run he had when he was basically commanding respect? That's one of my favorite storylines period. The last "new thing" he's done was add Hell's Gate to his move set and that was years ago.

Also, Shawn Michaels is a horrible example of someone who should be respected Phenom. You mentioned how Triple H's career is marred by the politics, but who was there to teach him all the political ways? HBK. They both held a lot of people down and put themselves and their friends over everyone else.

I love Shawn Michaels. I'm glad that he's become a better person, but if you're going to cite Triple H's past, then Michaels shouldn't be exempt.

[TakerNGN74]

True that! But good luck finding out HOW the what?! got started in the first place!

I remember Stone Cold came up with the What when he was trying to call Christian (personally, not in the ring or anything) and the phone had terrible reception and Stone Cold would keep saying 'WHAT?!'

Austin told the story on his "What?" dvd, he called Christian and got his voice mail and for some reason he said "I am passing a rest stop, What? I said a rest stop" and from there he started doing it. On the DVD Christian said that the whole message was about 10 minutes long.

[djthefunkchris]

I'm a Brown's fan, I should be throwing junk at you too :p

The USA chants only seem appropriate if it's ya know, meaningful. Like if the wrestler the American is facing is someone the USA is at odds with in real life, like Russia at one point, or Middle Eastern and the heel is playing up to that role.

I don't know, I think I'm going to always chant USA for Jim Duggan, no matter if all of his opponants are from the USA or somewhere else.

[ampulator]

I don't know, I think I'm going to always chant USA for Jim Duggan, no matter if all of his opponants are from the USA or somewhere else.
But it's Jim Duggan. In general, it's kind of stupid... especially stupid when there is no person from the United States in the ring. Happens more than it should.

[shawn michaels 82]

How is Undertaker "keeping it fresh"?

He's been doing the same thing for years. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve respect. I'm saying that respect shouldn't make him impervious to negativity.

I respect Undertaker a lot. That heel run he had when he was basically commanding respect? That's one of my favorite storylines period. The last "new thing" he's done was add Hell's Gate to his move set and that was years ago.

Also, Shawn Michaels is a horrible example of someone who should be respected Phenom. You mentioned how Triple H's career is marred by the politics, but who was there to teach him all the political ways? HBK. They both held a lot of people down and put themselves and their friends over everyone else.

I love Shawn Michaels. I'm glad that he's become a better person, but if you're going to cite Triple H's past, then Michaels shouldn't be exempt.

I couldn't actually agree more with you, to some extent. The great thing about Michaels is that althouh he has this past that isn't that great at all, (not only the politics, but the substance abuse, suicide atempt, etc) his work is so great that people really don't care that much about what he did or didn't do. He usually says he was never outperformed, and that's true. When a guy acomplishes that, he truly deserves some respect.

Taker's case is diferent. He has an exemplar behaviour, and has always managed to keep the mystique of his character flowing. Sometimes, that's enough.

Triple H...well, i like trips, but no matter how good he did, he will always be remembered for his behaviour, especially since he married "daddy's little princess". Enough said there. :D

[bigtplaystew]

It's funny that the whole big tagline to this year's HHH/Taker match is they are the last two guys from the attitude era. Yet the Rock is performing at the same show.

I wonder how Mark Henry feels about all this?

[Astil]

It's funny that the whole big tagline to this year's HHH/Taker match is they are the last two guys from the attitude era. Yet the Rock is performing at the same show.

I wonder how Mark Henry feels about all this?

Or Kane. Or Show. Kurt Angles twitter's going to get hacked again.

[20LEgend]

Why did they bring the Punk/Brown thing up? No need to. Now people are speculating it's a work, really can't see that.

Main Ecent saved a average at best show.

[Jaysin]

I just watched Punk's video aimed at Brown. I would love to see Punk destroy Brown. Not in the WWE, but in reality.

[bigtplaystew]

Part of me wants to be the progressive thinker and just look at Chris Brown with an attitude of "he was wrong, he screwed up, he admitted it, lets all just move on."

As a wrestling fan, it's kind of hypocritical to judge a performer on his or her personal life.

But he REALLY is a tool. CM Punk threw a barb at him. If he'd have risen above it and left it alone... there would be no issue. But then he had to throw childish (and terribly unfunny) insults back at Punk. It just reminds me of him trashing his dressing room on GMA and the dude probably deserves an ass beating.

That said, if Punk wants to go beat up men who abuse women, there's plenty of targets withing his own industry he could look into.

[BHK1978]

It's funny that the whole big tagline to this year's HHH/Taker match is they are the last two guys from the attitude era. Yet the Rock is performing at the same show.

I wonder how Mark Henry feels about all this?

Can add Kane in there as well.

I said the exact same thing to my father about how they were billing this as the last two guys from the Attitude Era. Then after a few minutes of explaining to my father what the Attitude Era was (He has been watching wrestling since the 1950's but stopped watching the WWF on a regular basis in 1993 or so and now only watches TNA.) I told him about all of the wrestlers left from said era.

In regards to speaking during the Undertaker's promo, I stand by what I say. If you buy the ticket you can yell out whenever you want to do so. Unless the First Amendment does not apply once you step into the arena...well I guess it does not because the WWE always takes away signs that they do not want shown on television.

[Tha Black Phenom]

How is Undertaker "keeping it fresh"?

He's been doing the same thing for years. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve respect. I'm saying that respect shouldn't make him impervious to negativity.

I respect Undertaker a lot. That heel run he had when he was basically commanding respect? That's one of my favorite storylines period. The last "new thing" he's done was add Hell's Gate to his move set and that was years ago.

Also, Shawn Michaels is a horrible example of someone who should be respected Phenom. You mentioned how Triple H's career is marred by the politics, but who was there to teach him all the political ways? HBK. They both held a lot of people down and put themselves and their friends over everyone else.

I love Shawn Michaels. I'm glad that he's become a better person, but if you're going to cite Triple H's past, then Michaels shouldn't be exempt.

Well, maybe I assumed too much and reside from that crowd of people who let such things go. I mean hell, most of us Canadians got over the HBK/Bret stuff, even long before Bret made amends with them. Coulda fooled me. /shrug


I wasn't exactly looking for a veteran off the top of my head with a clean career, HHH's case is more continuous and somewhat proportionally more controversial, but at least it's shaping up the point I wanted to make about Taker.

[alden]

I think the last two might have ment "mega stars" kane and henrey were not mega stars at the time. they did not "carry the company" like taker and hhh did.

[Nedew]

I'm pretty sure they're billing as the end of the pre-Attitude (it'd seem odd to call it New Generation, but y'know what i mean) era. 'Taker started wrestling in the 80s, and Triple H was on the Starrcade '94 card - these guys were around already, whereas the likes of Kane and Henry came a fair bit later on, more clearly Attitude stalwarts.

[dvdWarrior]

I'm pretty sure they're billing as the end of the pre-Attitude (it'd seem odd to call it New Generation, but y'know what i mean) era. 'Taker started wrestling in the 80s, and Triple H was on the Starrcade '94 card - these guys were around already, whereas the likes of Kane and Henry came a fair bit later on, more clearly Attitude stalwarts.

I just thought they were referring to wrestling's old-school, those 3 guys (HHH, HBK, and Taker), being the last of the guys who came up the old way, through the territories kinda - whereas almost all of today's stars came up through the indies or WWE's developmental system. Kane did that as well, (the old way), I believe, but I'm pretty sure Henry was a WWE product all the way.

[ThatChizzle]

yeah, Kane was around before the Attitude era, First he was Isaac Yankem DDS, then right after Scott Hall and Kevin Nash went to WCW, Kane was the Fake Diesel, before the nWo was formed (before Hulk Hogan turned to the Heel "Hollywood" Hogan.)

[Unregistered]

I know this is not going to happen, but I think it would be great if WWE used those chants and calls , and put them into one of Taker's videos. Hell, if they are putting Taker as the underdog, and being pushed so much like a old washed up dude, why not use the disrespect he got to his favor.

To be honest, the way they're doing the storyline, the reaction he got was justified. He's been made to look like a joke versus Triple H. There has never been a real mention of him winning last year. It's just constant talk about him getting beat down so bad. Trple H and Shawn have both basically insinuated Taker has no chance. Heck, Taker himself looks awful from what we've seen. The worst thing was, up until last night, Taker himself was only bringing up the fact that he had gotten so badly beat. And I still don't remember him bringing up his win.

I heard it said recently and it explains why I'm just so annoyed by the whole storyline, how is Undertaker going in 19-0 and yet he's still the underdog?

As far as I'm concerned, if their going to try and make him into the Rocky Balboa type, they might as well use everything they can. Those chants are something that were gifted to them. I would never have expected that in a million years, but now that it's happened, hell yeah. Use that shit.

[bigtplaystew]

Undertaker's promo work hasn't really ever been that great. But considering you get maybe 10 of them a year at this point, and considering that he still puts on great matches (once a year), I feel the man deserves respect from the sport's fans.

That said, I never blame the crowd for booing or losing interest. If your crowd isn't pleased, it''s YOUR fault. Not theirs.

I have problems with Joe Rogan when it comes to this issue. Many times he's made comments as if the fans are somehow "not educated" or something when they boo a hugging contest in MMA. The fans dont have to be "educated" they need to be entertained.

The same stands here. The fans should respect Undertaker. But when the guy comes out, takes ten minutes to get to the ring, and drones on about the same dumb crap we've seen in the vignettes... part of me understands some negative crowd reactions.

We must consider though, by the time the segment was over with the fans were pretty pumped up and into it. So all in all, HHH and Taker did get it done.

[Linsolv]

Part of me wants to be the progressive thinker and just look at Chris Brown with an attitude of "he was wrong, he screwed up, he admitted it, lets all just move on."

I'd say he's payed his dues when he doesn't have millions of female fans who don't care that he put his girlfriend in the hospital.

[juggaloninjalee]

I think the last two might have ment "mega stars" kane and henrey were not mega stars at the time. they did not "carry the company" like taker and hhh did.

HHH didn't carry the WWE ever. Austin and Rock did during the Attitude Era. Then after the Attitude Era I'd say HHH was 1 of a few guys to "carry" the company during a ratings decline period. This is why they went PG because they were not making as much money due to ratings so they explored other avenues.

I'm pretty sure they're billing as the end of the pre-Attitude (it'd seem odd to call it New Generation, but y'know what i mean) era. 'Taker started wrestling in the 80s, and Triple H was on the Starrcade '94 card - these guys were around already, whereas the likes of Kane and Henry came a fair bit later on, more clearly Attitude stalwarts.

Again Jericho, and Kane are pre Attitude Era guys too.

Undertaker has been using the same character for 10 years and only added a submission since then.

[shawn michaels 82]

Only HHH would have the "gift" to feud with Taker and make him look as the underdog. Hunter had no business going for a second match. Hell, taker vs. new masked Kane would be better and way more bankable. But no...Hunter freakin Helmsley has to put his nose on everything. Even when he's not winning championships, the guys still manages to hug all the spotlight! Damn him, i say! I'm begining to wonder who in their right minds puts taker in 2 matches with HBK on a row, knowing that Taker has to defend the streak afterwards, contrary to Shawn, that retires big time. It's pretty unfair. Calaway will never top what he did with Michaels again and i'm wondering if he souldn't have retired back then too. If only his opponent wasn't HHH...

[juggaloninjalee]

From what I remember half the people who saw Mania loved the HHH vs Taker match last year. The other half thought it was over rated and just a finisher fest. Personally I thought it was very entertaining but I dunno. I am not a HHH or Taker fan really and I do find Undertaker a bit over rated. I also think HHH is a bit under rated. I am trying to take it for what it is but I'd like to see a younger guy push Taker to his limits. So it wouldn't damage Taker but would elevate the younger guy.

[shawn michaels 82]

From what I remember half the people who saw Mania loved the HHH vs Taker match last year. The other half thought it was over rated and just a finisher fest. Personally I thought it was very entertaining but I dunno. I am not a HHH or Taker fan really and I do find Undertaker a bit over rated. I also think HHH is a bit under rated. I am trying to take it for what it is but I'd like to see a younger guy push Taker to his limits. So it wouldn't damage Taker but would elevate the younger guy.

That actually says it all. One match had mixed reviews from the "buyers" (us), so they should have sticked by that. Doing a 2nd is absurd. I'm with you on the younger guy thing. Having a Taker vs. Daniel Bryan would be much more entertaining for me, and much better when it comes to actuall in ring work. Just an example.

[Arrows]

That actually says it all. One match had mixed reviews from the "buyers" (us), so they should have sticked by that. Doing a 2nd is absurd. I'm with you on the younger guy thing. Having a Taker vs. Daniel Bryan would be much more entertaining for me, and much better when it comes to actuall in ring work. Just an example.

Since I saw this, I'll throw on my gripes about the situation, because this is the match I was calling for. Daniel Bryan beat The Big Show, Mark Henry, both of them together in a cage match, took out Orton, beat Sheamus by DQ, survived the f'n Elimination Chamber, and the great threat at the end of the road is....

Sheamus, Jinder Mahal's curtain jerking buddy.

Who cares? Anyone? Does anyone, anywhere in the world, think Sheamus is more of a challenge than the Elimination Chamber? This is a serious downgrade, and when Bryan does the job it's gonna look really stupid.

Taker should've won the rumble, and been in Sheamus' spot post chamber match, without the contact. The very idea that Taker chose Bryan for Mania would have EVERYONE mocking Bryan all the way through to Mania. Taker would need to put in absolutely zero work for this to go over huge.

I can't even begin to imagine the celebration from Bryan if he managed to win, but that'd be the last time anyone could ever call him a joke champion. Something he still needs.

[Jaysin]

Pretty sure if Undertaker won the rumble I wouldn't watch Wrestlemania at all. I'm pretty happy Sheamus won. I'm glad a fresh faced bad ass won the rumble.

Also, I noticed something while watching Elimination Chamber. Del Rio would make a great face. He has the charisma and the mic skills. He could easily turn the cockiness into cheers I think.

[Arrows]

Pretty sure if Undertaker won the rumble I wouldn't watch Wrestlemania at all. I'm pretty happy Sheamus won. I'm glad a fresh faced bad ass won the rumble.

Also, I noticed something while watching Elimination Chamber. Del Rio would make a great face. He has the charisma and the mic skills. He could easily turn the cockiness into cheers I think.

Sheamus isn't bad ass though.The most he's accomplished since running away from a bunch of jobbers like a pansy, was winning the rumble. Otherwise, he's been beating up a jobber and was Mark Henry's punching bag to use to get over.

How exactly is Sheamus in ANY way, a credible challenger for a world title, at Wrestle Mania? Any other PPV, fine. All the Bryan build up, to Sheamus, at Mania? Stupid.

[bigtplaystew]

Pretty sure if Undertaker won the rumble I wouldn't watch Wrestlemania at all. I'm pretty happy Sheamus won. I'm glad a fresh faced bad ass won the rumble.

Also, I noticed something while watching Elimination Chamber. Del Rio would make a great face. He has the charisma and the mic skills. He could easily turn the cockiness into cheers I think.

i actually agree with that. I think Wade Barrett could possibly make a decent face turn as well.

[shawn michaels 82]

Sheamus isn't bad ass though.The most he's accomplished since running away from a bunch of jobbers like a pansy, was winning the rumble. Otherwise, he's been beating up a jobber and was Mark Henry's punching bag to use to get over.

How exactly is Sheamus in ANY way, a credible challenger for a world title, at Wrestle Mania? Any other PPV, fine. All the Bryan build up, to Sheamus, at Mania? Stupid.

Amen to this.

[Tha Black Phenom]

The way they've used Sheamus as of late has indeed made him look massively underwhelming, you would think if he's the Rumble winner AND going for the B-show's major title, they'd at least try to spice it up a bit. Instead they expect us to still care about the Big Show, well... suit themselves, I say.

I sort of kept thinking Taker should've faced someone else 'till now, but honestly.. HIAC, it sells itself. I never thought they'd jump that hurdle but.. heck. On a rare occasion, I went on twitter the other day while HIAC was trending and from the way it looks, it's gonna get a lot of viewers, casual or defunct, sucked in. It's not even about the streak or Taker's opponent anymore to them, it's all about that structure and the fact both of them are pioneers of that match type.

[Arrows]

The way they've used Sheamus as of late has indeed made him look massively underwhelming, you would think if he's the Rumble winner AND going for the B-show's major title, they'd at least try to spice it up a bit. Instead they expect us to still care about the Big Show, well... suit themselves, I say.

I sort of kept thinking Taker should've faced someone else 'till now, but honestly.. HIAC, it sells itself. I never thought they'd jump that hurdle but.. heck. On a rare occasion, I went on twitter the other day while HIAC was trending and from the way it looks, it's gonna get a lot of viewers, casual or defunct, sucked in. It's not even about the streak or Taker's opponent anymore to them, it's all about that structure and the fact both of them are pioneers of that match type.

Yeah, but a far over the hill wrestle once a year Undertaker vs. a past his prime wrestle twice a year Triple H in a PG Heck In A Cell match, isn't gonna be what people are envisioning. Brutality is gone. The cell means nothing. Big cage. Big whoop.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Well obviously people are hoping for more than what we would expect. A lot of fans on there were flatout saying 'gorefest or bust'; now while I don't think they'll go all out, they oughta give us something at least to make it memorable. This is probably the last big match for both of them, they won't settle for PG semantics.

[Slim Jim]

If there are any two guys on WWE's roster who don't have to follow the guidelines of what is acceptable and what isn't, Triple H and 'Taker are those two guys. Put them together in the same match, at Wrestlemania no less, and do you really think if there is something they want to do that they won't just do it? Obviously we aren't going to get a repeat of Mick Foley '96 but I think basically the match will go down however 'Taker and Triple H want it to, regardless of what any "producers" say, or even Vince himself.

[lazorbeak]

Gotta say I have no interest in Triple H vs. Taker at Wrestlemania again, especially considering we had two straight years of the (superior) HBK/Undertaker feud just before this. That said, this match is almost guaranteed to become the greatest Hell in a Cell match involving the Undertaker in Wrestlemania history, assuming it can top that classic that was Taker/Bossman from Wrestlemania 15.

[milamber]

How exactly is Sheamus in ANY way, a credible challenger for a world title, at Wrestle Mania? Any other PPV, fine. All the Bryan build up, to Sheamus, at Mania? Stupid.

Sheamus has probably had the biggest winning streaks of 2011 (at least on SD), bar a few losses to cheating heels. Only problem is that most of the wins didn't require enough effort because he mostly wrestled midcarders. And he came in late in the Rumble so beating Jericho at the end was the only thing he did of note there. He is massively over with the fans, though. Match could go either way.

[milamber]

The way I would book HHH v Taker (HIAC, Michaels as guest ref, loser retires) - Keep it short. Make it fast and furious with both guys going all out trying to end the other as quick as possible. Have Taker kick out of a couple of pedigrees at 2 and half counts. Then goad HHH into making a mistake and slap on Hell's Gate. Have HHH refuse to tap and instead pass out. When he comes to, Taker is on the top of the cell celebrating. Michaels (guest ref) tries to console HHH saying "you did your best." HHH snaps, climbs up and throws Taker off the Cell (only if they can do it safely given the recent spate of injuries). This would throw Taker's ability to ever wrestle again into doubt. Or if they want to turn Taker heel, have him counter and throw HHH off the Cell instead and threaten to do the same to Michaels if doesn't back off. Then later in the year run a storyline with Taker searching for a wrestler good enough to beat him.

[LoNdOn]

The way I would book HHH v Taker (HIAC, Michaels as guest ref, loser retires) - Keep it short. Make it fast and furious with both guys going all out trying to end the other as quick as possible. Have Taker kick out of a couple of pedigrees at 2 and half counts. Then goad HHH into making a mistake and slap on Hell's Gate. Have HHH refuse to tap and instead pass out. When he comes to, Taker is on the top of the cell celebrating. Michaels (guest ref) tries to console HHH saying "you did your best." HHH snaps, climbs up and throws Taker off the Cell (only if they can do it safely given the recent spate of injuries). This would throw Taker's ability to ever wrestle again into doubt. Or if they want to turn Taker heel, have him counter and throw HHH off the Cell instead and threaten to do the same to Michaels if doesn't back off. Then later in the year run a storyline with Taker searching for a wrestler good enough to beat him.

.............enter Yoshi Tatsu

[shawn michaels 82]

The way I would book HHH v Taker (HIAC, Michaels as guest ref, loser retires) - Keep it short. Make it fast and furious with both guys going all out trying to end the other as quick as possible. Have Taker kick out of a couple of pedigrees at 2 and half counts. Then goad HHH into making a mistake and slap on Hell's Gate. Have HHH refuse to tap and instead pass out. When he comes to, Taker is on the top of the cell celebrating. Michaels (guest ref) tries to console HHH saying "you did your best." HHH snaps, climbs up and throws Taker off the Cell (only if they can do it safely given the recent spate of injuries). This would throw Taker's ability to ever wrestle again into doubt. Or if they want to turn Taker heel, have him counter and throw HHH off the Cell instead and threaten to do the same to Michaels if doesn't back off. Then later in the year run a storyline with Taker searching for a wrestler good enough to beat him.

Yeah...i don't think so. Its' Taker final match, or so it seems. At one point, the guy has to retire. And when he does so, i hope the streek is kept alive. But don't count on any future plans, this one is probably his last match.

[bigtplaystew]

I just have this ugly feeling that HHH ends the streak...

[juggaloninjalee]

I just have this ugly feeling that HHH ends the streak...

I hope you are wrong as he is the last guy I want to see end the streak. That would be so terrible! It wouldn't help anyone involved.

[shawn michaels 82]

I hope you are wrong as he is the last guy I want to see end the streak. That would be so terrible! It wouldn't help anyone involved.

Yeah, but it's HHH...spotlight hugger, people screwer....it's possible! :D

[bigtplaystew]

All this talk of "the end" and all that. I don't know, man. I just don't see the Undertaker winning his retirement match. And I think this is his last one. I hope it isn't, but it probably is.

Most people in the "IWC" seem to be of the opinion that a young heel should take the streak. I generally have felt that way to.

But is that better? Does a Wade Barrett or a Daniel Bryan really move up to that huge next level taking out the Undertaker? I don't know. We could talk about future Barret or future Bryan, but think of those type of characters now. Think of The Miz or Del Rio or any of those guys beating Undertaker clean at WRESTLEMANIA. Do you honestly, if you search your knowledgeable wrestling brain, think a booker makes that finish and feels good about it? I don't think I do when I think about it.

Does a CM Punk or a John Cena get further with it? I dont think so. In fact, I think those two would best be served facing each other at a WM main event down the road. I kind of see those two as "above" the streak. they don't need it to get any further along. John Cena and CM Punk need mainstream exposure and recognition to take their games to the next level.

Now you have to look at upper-midcarderish faces. And there, it just makes absolutely no sense for 'Taker to job to a guy that hasn't yet gotten over on his own. You've got this decades old streak and you're gonna use that to build who? R Truth? Kofi Kingston? That just seems completely unrealistic to me.

[ScottMulhern]

I just have this ugly feeling that HHH ends the streak...

Me too, the way the storyline is playing out at the moment, with Undertaker (who won last year) trying to goad a reluctant HHH into the match would indicate that the wrestler being goaded would come out on top.

The second HBK/Undertaker match build featured HBK goading 'Taker, costing him the Title at Elimination Chamber, causing him to accept the challenge and ultimately prevail. This time Undertaker is in the HBK spot and HHH is now the Undertaker. If the Undertaker wins it doesn't really give the storyline a satisfying conclusion.

I ask myself why did HHH beat CM Punk a few months back? He hasn't wrestled a match since, granted Punk won his Title back but the whole HHH vs CM Punk thing led to a half fued between John Laurinaitis and Punk that has ultimately been dropped and forgotten about now.

With the rumours of the WWE brass being concerned about the lack of star power at the moment I think they're missing a trick not using HHH and Undertaker to elevate top stars. HHH should be putting someone over at WM, I would say CM Punk getting his win back, that's not to say I don't want to see Punk vs Jericho, but the whole HHH vs Punk storyline didn't have a conclusion, for me at least. Why not have him face The Miz? Did the Miz/R-Truth invading storyline ever lead to anything (other than jobbing to The Rock)? What happened after HHH beat the heck out of them? Nothing. Why not have him face ADR? Or Ziggler?

Undertaker should be facing, and beating in a competative match (if it's possible at this point in his career), someone like Wade Barrett or Drew McIntyre. Even losing to someone like Sheamus or Dolph Ziggler, who are ready to main event and get pushed to the stars.

As a side point, I was talking to my brother about this the other day, he doesn't watch wrestling now, he hasn't since around Wrestlemania 18, but he stated that the Undertaker's final match should be against Kane. In a perfect world this is hard to diagree with, although the quality of the match would be questionable.

I wonder if the WWE management are not confident in anyone other than HHH to carry Undertaker to a good match because he's too beat up or past it at this point, an issue that is indicative of their current problems.

[Teh_Showtime]

As for ending the streak, Taker wanted Orton to end it at WM21 but Vince said no.

Things change, but the streak is an even bigger deal now so letting a guy who wrestles once a year end it won't happen.

[bigtplaystew]

As for ending the streak, Taker wanted Orton to end it at WM21 but Vince said no.

Things change, but the streak is an even bigger deal now so letting a guy who wrestles once a year end it won't happen.

Good point. But wm21 was a long time ago. Undertaker was still a big dog in the company and was on TV every week.

I'm just not seeing anyone else who could end it and have it mean something. HHH ending it doesn't mean much either, but at least there's a story and a history there. And HHH IS still around. I'm not saying it's the best decision, but I do think it may be the decision they make.

[djthefunkchris]

I just don't know who it could possibly help, that a normal win against The Undertaker at an event (or show) outside of Wrestlemania wouldn't do just as well.

You could put Bryan or Miz or whomever and win clean. As was said before, it wouldn't put Bryan or Miz in any better shape then what they are already.

Matter of fact, someone ending the streak at this point would probably hurt their character more then help them. Even if HHH win's, he will lose (for example). Either way, someone winning without a huge build up over time (an actual feud leading up to it), won't get any help from the win.

I feel the same way about The Rock right now. He's no more then a (very popular) comedy act to me. Cena beatin' him won't help Cena, and Rock beating Cena doesn't mean anything to me (it's what I would expect). They would have to have alot more then the normal stuff they been doing, for it to mean anything at all to me, which won't happen because The Rock isn't in it for any length of time, pluss, it's pretty much too late now anyways.... and Cena can try, but no one can make a one sided "Big" feud... It takes two people actually confronting each other (not over screen), to make a feud big enough to make that much of a difference. Sure, Cena can rattle an audience as well as anyone, can probably even get some support for this if he keeps going the way he is, but when it comes down to it, The Rock would have to contribute much more then he has to really make it worthwhile.

In other words, although I really want to see all the people I just mentioned at Wrestlemania, It just won't mean anything at all to me come the next Monday night.

"I gave it my all, I have much respect for The Rock/The Undertaker after this!" No matter who wins, that just won't impact me in any way, because it just doesn't matter. I'm not invested in either feud.

[Arrows]

The ONLY man on the WWE roster the streak ending would've helped enough to be worth it is Bryan. Wade's NEVER going to be anything amazing. Cena ensured that. Miz doesn't need it. Alberto doesn't need it.

Bryan's one of very few who could use it, and a massive over the top celebration, to really become that prick champ you just can't get rid of.

[juggaloninjalee]

As for ending the streak, Taker wanted Orton to end it at WM21 but Vince said no.

Things change, but the streak is an even bigger deal now so letting a guy who wrestles once a year end it won't happen.

I never knew that Taker wanted that to happen. Kind of crazy to think about.

I think that is a guy like Del Rio, Miz, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, or even Wade Barrett beat Taker then it could help their character. They could play on it every year around Mania saying they did what 20 other men couldn't. They ended the Undertaker. Plus for a couple months after they ended the streak they could use it as a major selling point for why they are the best! WWE would have to book them strong in that time though to solidify them in that spot at the top of the card.

Cena is solidified at the top right now. He could lose 12 ppvs in a row to major guys and people would still probably think he is the top guy in the WWE. To me ending the streak could put someone on this level if done right and I think it is very possible.

[djthefunkchris]

The ONLY man on the WWE roster the streak ending would've helped enough to be worth it is Bryan. Wade's NEVER going to be anything amazing. Cena ensured that. Miz doesn't need it. Alberto doesn't need it.

Bryan's one of very few who could use it, and a massive over the top celebration, to really become that prick champ you just can't get rid of.

No one would buy it, outside of the few people that knew of Bryan from before his WWE days. Let me put it another way, the majority wouldn't buy it. Not buying it means it would hurt, rather then help someone like Bryan.

That's the biggest problem I really have with these discussions, is because people tend to think everyone is on the same wavelength. I would love to see someone like Bryan end the streak, I would mark out for it. I'm not going to delude myself into thinking a "Win" is a "Win" though, when in reality I can't think of a single soul that I know personally, that watch's WWE, that would buy into a Bryan win. Matter of fact, I see them getting mad and NOT watching WWE for a while, if not quit watching all together over something like that.

I don't know why things like this seem so easy for someone like me to see, but seem to be so hard for people to get their minds around. You have a small handfull of people that actually think of Taker as washed up, the rest of the general public still thinks he's the greatest thing in wrestling today.

Now don't get me wrong... IF They would have started a Taker feud, that evolved each week, with Danial Bryan, and got us all invested in the feud (meaning, not just a video promo), then by all means it could end up being very helpful for him.... But to throw it together like they are with HHH and Taker, no matter who they throw it together with (HHH or anyone else), it's not going to do anything that a normal match win on TV wouldn't do.

Build up a feud that gets people all interested in it, even if the "heel" wins through devious measures, he would still benefit. Have them go head to head in a couple of tag match's, show the strengths and weakness of each character through proper storytelling, show us why it's important to the challenger to win, and why it's important to Taker to not lose.... then we might be able to discuss someone benefitting.

HHH vs. Undertaker, in all seriousness should end with Taker's streak being intact. Have a younger talent end it next year, and have them build up a proper storyline that goes on for month's before even bringing up the "Streak".... Meaning, have someone feud with Undertaker, have them lose a couple and win a couple. Have the fued start small and get larger as time goes on until Wrestlemania is almost upon them, then have Undertaker start mind games and the younger guy challenge him at Wrestlemania. Have Taker almost NOT take it serious, then lose to the younger guy. IF built right, I would applaud it.

[bigtplaystew]

Wade's NEVER going to be anything amazing. Cena ensured that.

I'd love an explanation of what you mean by that.



What they SHOULD do is let 'Taker retire with it intact. It adds mystique to it. Even for the next few years after he's done, the streak would hang over Wrestlemania.

"Is 'Taker coming back? One more match? Who could he face?"

That's the right thing to do in my opinion. I'm just thinking that HHH might end it for whatever reason.

[Fantabulous]

Triple H is not ending the streak but it's a testament to WWE programming that people who should, in theory, know better think he might.

[Astil]

"I gave it my all, I have much respect for The Rock/The Undertaker after this!" No matter who wins, that just won't impact me in any way, because it just doesn't matter. I'm not invested in either feud.

It means everything to Cena. I don't think it's a loss that'll be brushed aside.

[Arrows]

I'd love an explanation of what you mean by that.

Wade came in running, and immediately hit the Cena wall. A wall he will never recover from. He'll always be the man who, with an army of SEVEN, accomplished nothing. Even when they beat the hell out of John Cena, he gave a thumbs up to the fans to completely screw the whole attack up and make no one give a crap because, hey, John'll be back next week at 100%.

Any chance Wade had at ever being _anything_, died with that thumb going up. Everything after just further destroyed any chance at a great career.

[Target Practice]

That's crazy. Because he had one minor hiccup early in his career, he'll never go anywhere? Let's be honest, most marks have short memories, and most smarks have pretty much figured out that Barrett could have had 20 dudes and not beaten Cena, because that's the way Cena was booked at that point.
If it had have been a screwup of Shockmaster-esque proportions, then yes, I'd agree, but a minor thing like that? I'd be surprised if most people even remember it.

I seem to remember some dude named Rocky Maivia being less than completely over at one point early in his career, and he seemed to get over it okay. I think he's wrestling again soon, actually...

[djthefunkchris]

It means everything to Cena. I don't think it's a loss that'll be brushed aside.

So, you think he is going to lose? Interesting.


Anyways, it mean's absolutely nothing to me, or to anyone else I know. Everyone I know is 100% sure that The Rock is going to win. I'm the only one I know that thinks Cena is going to actually win (that I know personally).

That tells me they haven't told a good enough story for anyone to really invest in the match. It's bassically a popularity contest, and The Rock is more popular with most people. The only people I know that even think Cena has a chance are very young, lol.... and I mean VERY.

IF The Rock wins, I think this might be good though... because if they made me care if Cena wins or not, and The Rock wins, yeah... I would imagine that would do something to Cena. But losing right now, at this time, means nothing.

[bigtplaystew]

I dunno man. I feel like Cena kinda put Barrett over a bit. For a young unkown talent like that to make a huge impact ont he maine vent scene... It's not unprecedented but it's certainly not a common thing.

When he was feuding with Cena he was headlining PPVs. Since the move to smackdown, he's been a standard midcard act. If you feel he should be further along than it is, I'm really not sure how to blame Cena for any of it. But I do think Barrett will be a top performer one day. He does good work.



On the HHH issue: I don't really predict HHH will win. I'm more taking the side that I have a sneaking suspicion he might. For the reasons previously mentioned.

I think 'Taker should win and keep the streak going. Even if it's his last match. I am just having a hard time looking at it with a clear head and wondering if I'm only of that opinion because it's what makes sense or is it because I'm a fan of a guy I grew up admiring.

[Fantabulous]

While we're at it, the 'Undertaker wanted Orton to end the streak' line is misleading. When the match was made, there was some consideration given to Orton going over but ultimately Vince decided against it. It wasn't some Undertaker vs. Vince argument or anything like that.

[djthefunkchris]

That's crazy. Because he had one minor hiccup early in his career, he'll never go anywhere? Let's be honest, most marks have short memories, and most smarks have pretty much figured out that Barrett could have had 20 dudes and not beaten Cena, because that's the way Cena was booked at that point.
If it had have been a screwup of Shockmaster-esque proportions, then yes, I'd agree, but a minor thing like that? I'd be surprised if most people even remember it.

I seem to remember some dude named Rocky Maivia being less than completely over at one point early in his career, and he seemed to get over it okay. I think he's wrestling again soon, actually...

Alot of people think that way though, all you have to do is check out other wrestling boards.

It's like, a new wrestler comes in, they get behind them, then say WWE has completely ruined (Or John Cena) that person when they lose.... Never taking into account that there isn't a single wrestler I can think of that didn't lose when starting out, to include Steve Austin, The Rock, Undertaker, Hulk Hogan, and... well, John Cena.

They've all been in Wades shoe's. The character is what matters, and if Wade doesn't get anyone to invest in his character, he will find himself on the other end again and again, no matter how many Ortons he throws down stairs.

[Astil]

So, you think he is going to lose? Interesting.


Anyways, it mean's absolutely nothing to me, or to anyone else I know. Everyone I know is 100% sure that The Rock is going to win. I'm the only one I know that thinks Cena is going to actually win (that I know personally).

That tells me they haven't told a good enough story for anyone to really invest in the match. It's bassically a popularity contest, and The Rock is more popular with most people. The only people I know that even think Cena has a chance are very young, lol.... and I mean VERY.

IF The Rock wins, I think this might be good though... because if they made me care if Cena wins or not, and The Rock wins, yeah... I would imagine that would do something to Cena. But losing right now, at this time, means nothing.

imho...Cena vs. Rock is all about Cena losing, regrouping, dealing with the dissapointment, the shame of losing to a man he actually feels is beneath him, and setting up for Cena/Rock 2 in New Jersey ... which Cena may actually win and go over HUGE.

EDIT: Most people are thinking this is the END of a storyline, when I think it's going to be the BEGINNING of one.

[djthefunkchris]

imho...Cena vs. Rock is all about Cena losing, regrouping, dealing with the dissapointment, the shame of losing to a man he actually feels is beneath him, and setting up for Cena/Rock 2 in New Jersey ... which Cena may actually win and go over HUGE.

EDIT: Most people are thinking this is the END of a storyline, when I think it's going to be the BEGINNING of one.

That's interesting. I could get behind that, but I felt like the whole reason Rock was doing it was to prove how much better his "era" was then the "Cena" era. Why would he come back, unless he is serious about staying around, which I really doubt.

[Astil]

That's interesting. I could get behind that, but I felt like the whole reason Rock was doing it was to prove how much better his "era" was then the "Cena" era. Why would he come back, unless he is serious about staying around, which I really doubt.

He's already signed on for the next Wrestlemania. [citation needed] Storyline wise... there's a few ways. Ramp up Cena's edge to the point where it's obvious he's better then he was before, making Rock's victory over a 'emotionally weakened' Cena suspect. AKA Cena at 100% would dominate Rock. Other way is use a dusty finish, or even have Cena snap after losing, beating Rock down in Miami. Then he comes out on RAW and still plays the face, albeit one who made a big mistake. Shades of gray type stuff.

Or just have Cena challenge him to a rematch and put something big on the line to hook him in. Cena losses he retires or something.

[shawn michaels 82]

While we're at it, the 'Undertaker wanted Orton to end the streak' line is misleading. When the match was made, there was some consideration given to Orton going over but ultimately Vince decided against it. It wasn't some Undertaker vs. Vince argument or anything like that.

That would have been a perfect ending, then. Legend vs legend killer. Asside HBK's matches, that was the match of the streak that i marked more about in recent years.

Edit: Did Bobby Laslhey really left the E becasue of racist friction with creative, specifically Michael Hayes? I mean...how would Vince allow that? I thought he wanted to push Lashley to the moon!

[moon_lit_tears]

imho...Cena vs. Rock is all about Cena losing, regrouping, dealing with the dissapointment, the shame of losing to a man he actually feels is beneath him, and setting up for Cena/Rock 2 in New Jersey ... which Cena may actually win and go over HUGE.

EDIT: Most people are thinking this is the END of a storyline, when I think it's going to be the BEGINNING of one.


That's actually something I'd like to see. I like how your mind works sometimes!!

As for Wade, I don't see him as not going anywhere. I think he'd be a good champ. Can't wait to see it happen. :)

[Arrows]

He's already signed on for the next Wrestlemania. [citation needed] Storyline wise... there's a few ways. Ramp up Cena's edge to the point where it's obvious he's better then he was before, making Rock's victory over a 'emotionally weakened' Cena suspect. AKA Cena at 100% would dominate Rock. Other way is use a dusty finish, or even have Cena snap after losing, beating Rock down in Miami. Then he comes out on RAW and still plays the face, albeit one who made a big mistake. Shades of gray type stuff.

Or just have Cena challenge him to a rematch and put something big on the line to hook him in. Cena losses he retires or something.

Ryder will cost Cena the match against Rock in Miami.

Just saying. Cena, job cleanly? Nah.

[cappyboy]

Ryder will cost Cena the match against Rock in Miami.

Just saying. Cena, job cleanly? Nah.

I kind of hope so. I'm looking forward to seeing heel Ryder. Maybe he won't be fast forward bait for me once all this cutesy "woo woo woo" crap goes away thanks to Kane getting him to embrace the hate.

[Astil]

Ryder will cost Cena the match against Rock in Miami.

Just saying. Cena, job cleanly? Nah.

Faces shouldn't job clean.

I like the Ryder interference, or Miz interfering to help Rock, like Rock helped him last year.

[Arrows]

Faces shouldn't job clean.

I like the Ryder interference, or Miz interfering to help Rock, like Rock helped him last year.

In Miami, Cena's not gonna be the face. Even if he was, a clean job against one of the best of all time, in his home town, at Mania, doesn't hurt.

[Astil]

In Miami, Cena's not gonna be the face. Even if he was, a clean job against one of the best of all time, in his home town, at Mania, doesn't hurt.

I honestly think it will be clean. Pretty sure of it. It'd advance the story.

[Fantabulous]

Cena putting his career on the line would mean something. You know, if this was 20 years ago. Dusty Finish to the main event of Wrestlemania? Another stellar idea. Babyfaces losing clean just kills them dead you know. No babyface ever lost clean and didn't end up worse for it. Ever. In history. There is no way to book a clean babyface loss and make them more over for it. Nope Not at all.

[Astil]

Cena putting his career on the line would mean something. You know, if this was 20 years ago. Dusty Finish to the main event of Wrestlemania? Another stellar idea. Babyfaces losing clean just kills them dead you know. No babyface ever lost clean and didn't end up worse for it. Ever. In history. There is no way to book a clean babyface loss and make them more over for it. Nope Not at all.

Just to make things clear, I want him to lose clean to advance the storyline.

My feelers say you dont like Cena...

[Arrows]

If Cena can't use the story to further his character and advance his career, then he doesn't deserve to be in the same ring with Rock.

[moon_lit_tears]

If Cena can't use the story to further his character and advance his career, then he doesn't deserve to be in the same ring with Rock.

Exactly.

I think Cena can do it. I mean he had the crowd behind him Monday night. Losing to the Rock with a good storyline to follow WILL be a good thing if he can make it work.

It's a wait and see game now.

[shawn michaels 82]

Well, i don't know why anyone speaks poorly of the WWE booking. A few years ago we would be saying who would win what match, and now, no one seems to be sure. I'm just saying...if it generates this much discussion between us, the smarts, imagine between the marks. So, whoever wins, it's money in the bank.

[Arrows]

Well, i don't know why anyone speaks poorly of the WWE booking. A few years ago we would be saying who would win what match, and now, no one seems to be sure. I'm just saying...if it generates this much discussion between us, the smarts, imagine between the marks. So, whoever wins, it's money in the bank.

I LIKE the current booking, for the most part. I am a wrestling fan again, right now. There's a few things I'm not fond of, like Trips deciding to rub his own ego more, but for the most part, very happy to be a wrestling fan.

[shawn michaels 82]

I LIKE the current booking, for the most part. I am a wrestling fan again, right now. There's a few things I'm not fond of, like Trips deciding to rub his own ego more, but for the most part, very happy to be a wrestling fan.

i for one agree. Sure, some things need to improve, but it's good right now. And yeah, Trips and his ego are a negative note. But some things never change. Anyone knows the answer to my Bobby Lashley question?

[bigtplaystew]

Just to make things clear, I want him to lose clean to advance the storyline.

My feelers say you dont like Cena...

I dont think he likes anyone. Or anything for that matter...

I just don't see WWE asking Cena to clean job to the Rock. It's in Miami. I'm aware. But thats irrelevant. We've seen guys lose int heir hometown before. It's wrestlemania.

I dunno how it'll end but I dont see either guy actually losing the match. It's gotta end messy it's the only way I see them booking it.

[The Final Countdown]

The way I see it, Rock winning clean is the ideal result. Cena trying to bounce back from (cleanly) losing the biggest match of his career would be the most interesting thing they've done with him in years. Of course, this would be dependent on WWE having at least a verbal commitment from Rock to do a rematch sometime down the road, because the story only works if Cena gets a chance to avenge his defeat.

[Arrows]

If Rock's gonna hang around for a bit before vanishing until next Mania, having Ryder attack Cena, and someone else attack Rock, forcing the no contest, wouldn't be a terrible way to keep either from losing.

[Arrows]

The way I see it, Rock winning clean is the ideal result. Cena trying to bounce back from (cleanly) losing the biggest match of his career would be the most interesting thing they've done with him in years. Of course, this would be dependent on WWE having at least a verbal commitment from Rock to do a rematch sometime down the road, because the story only works if Cena gets a chance to avenge his defeat.

Rock's signed for next Mania. It's confirmed. Wether it'll be Cena or not, is anyone's guess, but they'll get another match out of him.

[The Final Countdown]

Rock's signed for next Mania. It's confirmed. Wether it'll be Cena or not, is anyone's guess, but they'll get another match out of him.
I did not hear that. That makes me even more sure that a clean Rock win is the best way to go.

[lazorbeak]

Cena putting his career on the line would mean something. You know, if this was 20 years ago. Dusty Finish to the main event of Wrestlemania? Another stellar idea. Babyfaces losing clean just kills them dead you know. No babyface ever lost clean and didn't end up worse for it. Ever. In history. There is no way to book a clean babyface loss and make them more over for it. Nope Not at all.

I know you're being facetious and all, and it's moot anyway because Cena won't be seen as the babyface for that night at least, but how many other times in WWE history has the top babyface not gone over in the main event of Wrestlemania? I count 3 in Wrestlemania history, and ironically enough, all involve Cena or Rock, unless you count Hogan putting over Warrior.

As far as what others are saying, no matter what they do I'm not sure how a no-contest is anything but the worst possible result ever for a match that's been built up to for a year.

[djthefunkchris]

That would have been a perfect ending, then. Legend vs legend killer. Asside HBK's matches, that was the match of the streak that i marked more about in recent years.

Edit: Did Bobby Laslhey really left the E becasue of racist friction with creative, specifically Michael Hayes? I mean...how would Vince allow that? I thought he wanted to push Lashley to the moon!

I believe it had more to do with them releasing the love of his life, and the storyline she was in I don't think he liked at the time either (Getting married to Teddy). I don't remember anything about him saying they were rascist.

[BurningHamster]

I did not hear that. That makes me even more sure that a clean Rock win is the best way to go.

If Rock wins clean, I riot. :p

[dvdWarrior]

If The Rock wins clean I'll click my heels and boogie to the tune of Walkin' On Sunshine.

:cool:

[BurningHamster]

If The Rock wins clean I'll click my heels and boogie to the tune of Walkin' On Sunshine.

:cool:

Good luck doing that with all the rioting I am going to be doing! :p

[ThatChizzle]

I dunno, they only real reason that Dwayne Johnson came back to WWE at all, was because Vince McMahon own's the rights to the name "The Rock"

When the Rock was making movies while he was still wrestling, he was advertised as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. When he left WWE to make movies, he was advertised only as Dwayne Johnson.
The Rock wants to use the character name to boost up ticket and dvd sales, so that he can make more money. Vince McMahon is a great buisness man.
Dwayne scratches Vince's back, come back here and there, gets to use the Name "The Rock", Vince McMahon gets to get his cut in any movies that are advertising him as the Rock, and probably gets a small cut in dvd sales too. lol as Vince would say "It's good for Buisness)

Wheither Cena will win or lose, I dunno. "Good for Buisness" would be John Cena winning clean over The Rock, the same way Hulk Hogan put over The Rock at Wrestlemania 18.
The Rock does have a huge ego, he could pull the same crap the Ultimate Warrior did when he was WWF Title. Go in WM saying he will put Cena over, then WM day, saying I either want to win, or I want more money.

Personally, it would be best for Cena to win, and then if The Rock has signed to the next WM, then let the Rock win. Having The Rock win will be pointless, as he is going to do the same thing this year, as he did at last year. Rock will come in to fight, then after WM, he won't be heard of until the next WM.

Unless Vince gives Dwayne another birthday party

[shawn michaels 82]

I believe it had more to do with them releasing the love of his life, and the storyline she was in I don't think he liked at the time either (Getting married to Teddy). I don't remember anything about him saying they were rascist.

I saw in an article, (can't remember which site, i'll try to find it) that the Kristal thing ws in fact the fuse,but after her release they began ignoring him, saying they had no ideas for him atm and Michael Hayes went as far as doing some racist remarks.

[bigtplaystew]

Duane Johnson is a bankable movie star making more money per film than most of WWE's roster does in a year. Combined. He's bigger and more important than "the Rock" ever was.

[shawn michaels 82]

I dunno, they only real reason that Dwayne Johnson came back to WWE at all, was because Vince McMahon own's the rights to the name "The Rock"

When the Rock was making movies while he was still wrestling, he was advertised as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. When he left WWE to make movies, he was advertised only as Dwayne Johnson.
The Rock wants to use the character name to boost up ticket and dvd sales, so that he can make more money. Vince McMahon is a great buisness man.
Dwayne scratches Vince's back, come back here and there, gets to use the Name "The Rock", Vince McMahon gets to get his cut in any movies that are advertising him as the Rock, and probably gets a small cut in dvd sales too. lol as Vince would say "It's good for Buisness)

Wheither Cena will win or lose, I dunno. "Good for Buisness" would be John Cena winning clean over The Rock, the same way Hulk Hogan put over The Rock at Wrestlemania 18.
The Rock does have a huge ego, he could pull the same crap the Ultimate Warrior did when he was WWF Title. Go in WM saying he will put Cena over, then WM day, saying I either want to win, or I want more money.

Personally, it would be best for Cena to win, and then if The Rock has signed to the next WM, then let the Rock win. Having The Rock win will be pointless, as he is going to do the same thing this year, as he did at last year. Rock will come in to fight, then after WM, he won't be heard of until the next WM.

Unless Vince gives Dwayne another birthday party

With what he earns right now, i would say that wasn't the only reason he came back. Plus, at this point, Dwayne's name is already valuable. He's starring in blockbusters that pay him millions. When he's not starring in blockbusters, he's doing other finnancially solid parts. So...i know hios comeback must involve big money for him, of course, or he wouldn't do it...but let's face it: He had no need to comeback right now, risking his body (which is his provider) just to collect a paycheck that he's not desperate to collect right now. Maybe the man does love wrestling and misses it to the point of returning to do this. Sure he needed to be well paid to do so, but i still believe the love for the business had to do with it.

[juggaloninjalee]

With what he earns right now, i would say that wasn't the only reason he came back. Plus, at this point, Dwayne's name is already valuable. He's starring in blockbusters that pay him millions. When he's not starring in blockbusters, he's doing other finnancially solid parts. So...i know hios comeback must involve big money for him, of course, or he wouldn't do it...but let's face it: He had no need to comeback right now, risking his body (which is his provider) just to collect a paycheck that he's not desperate to collect right now. Maybe the man does love wrestling and misses it to the point of returning to do this. Sure he needed to be well paid to do so, but i still believe the love for the business had to do with it.

I think the Rock does love wrestling. Plus his fans have probably been asking him on a daily basis for 7 years to return.

I could see Rock beating Cena only to lose in a rematch at Summer Slam. That would set up the final blow off match for Mania next year where Cena would win.

Now that would be good for business. Get 3 big money PPVs out of the feud and possibly a dvd for the feud down the road.

[shawn michaels 82]

I think the Rock does love wrestling. Plus his fans have probably been asking him on a daily basis for 7 years to return.

I could see Rock beating Cena only to lose in a rematch at Summer Slam. That would set up the final blow off match for Mania next year where Cena would win.

Now that would be good for business. Get 3 big money PPVs out of the feud and possibly a dvd for the feud down the road.

I really hope Dwayne wins this one and after it, let them move on to different things. I have no desire to see the WWE banking on this match every single year, for 2 or 3 years, when it's only one of a kind once! Besides, i don't like John Cena (no secret there) and would like to see The Rock fight someone else next time. Seeing The Rock lose to John Cena is a killer for me, as i am a Cena disliker and a Rock liker. But oh well, WWE will milk this to the end of times.

[Astil]

I really hope Dwayne wins this one and after it, let them move on to different things. I have no desire to see the WWE banking on this match every single year, for 2 or 3 years, when it's only one of a kind once! Besides, i don't like John Cena (no secret there) and would like to see The Rock fight someone else next time. Seeing The Rock lose to John Cena is a killer for me, as i am a Cena disliker and a Rock liker. But oh well, WWE will milk this to the end of times.

I'm a Rock disliker and a Cena liker now-a-days, and I'd much rather see it go three, so Cena can go over big. I mean who else is Rock going to face: Miz? Orton? Would he do the job? Should he?

[ThatChizzle]

I have been a wrestling fan, since I was 4 in 1985, and for different reasons I respect ALL wrestlers.
But, The Rock is the only one that left wrestling for Hollywood, and I'm happy for him. At the same time, I think that Dwayne Johnson is a sell-out due to him turning his back on his Wrestling fans. So I have to agree with everything that John Cena is saying about The Rock. I haven't liked Cena's gimmick for a while, but they are fixing parts of Cena, and I'm def. liking where its going. And for the people who chant "Cena Sucks", it reminds me when Rocky Maivia first started.
Rocky Maivia used to be a babyface wearing his little feathery attire, smiling at the crowd, and after a while, everyone started hating him. It's the same thing thats going on with John Cena. At least the crowd only chants "Cena Sucks", lol the crowd used to chant "Die Rocky Die" and carry in signs of the same type. So at least Cena hasen't been hated as much as the Rock was.
Vince McMahon gave The Rock the microphone and let him speak his mind, and the crowd warmed back up to him. That is what they need to do to Cena. Quit having Cena doing PG, and reading scripts, and let him work his own promos.

[Target Practice]

I can't see any benefit with Rocky jobbing to Cena.

The crowd will hate it (and I can't think of anything worse for the 'E than the crowd furiously booing the result of the main event of your biggest event of the year), it won't win over anyone that already hates Cena, and by giving Cena the win right out of the gate, you put a big dent in any benefits to bringing the Rock back later on if the rumours of him being booked for more matches in the future are true.

If I'm booking it, Rock wins clean in Miami, Cena suffers a huge crisis of confidence as a result - you can then spend the next year building him back up, perhaps with a feud against a heel who's good at the psychological side of things and can work that angle via promos (Jericho, perhaps?), culminating in a return match at the next 'Mania, where Cena avenges the loss. After that, I'd probably leave it at 1-1 - I can't see any advantage to dragging the feud out any longer. If Rocky's booked for another match after that, give him a 'loser retires' match against HHH.

[lazorbeak]

I dunno, they only real reason that Dwayne Johnson came back to WWE at all, was because Vince McMahon own's the rights to the name "The Rock"

When the Rock was making movies while he was still wrestling, he was advertised as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. When he left WWE to make movies, he was advertised only as Dwayne Johnson.
The Rock wants to use the character name to boost up ticket and dvd sales, so that he can make more money. Vince McMahon is a great buisness man.
Dwayne scratches Vince's back, come back here and there, gets to use the Name "The Rock", Vince McMahon gets to get his cut in any movies that are advertising him as the Rock, and probably gets a small cut in dvd sales too. lol as Vince would say "It's good for Buisness)

Wheither Cena will win or lose, I dunno. "Good for Buisness" would be John Cena winning clean over The Rock, the same way Hulk Hogan put over The Rock at Wrestlemania 18.
The Rock does have a huge ego, he could pull the same crap the Ultimate Warrior did when he was WWF Title. Go in WM saying he will put Cena over, then WM day, saying I either want to win, or I want more money.

Personally, it would be best for Cena to win, and then if The Rock has signed to the next WM, then let the Rock win. Having The Rock win will be pointless, as he is going to do the same thing this year, as he did at last year. Rock will come in to fight, then after WM, he won't be heard of until the next WM.

Unless Vince gives Dwayne another birthday party

I have to wonder where you get the idea that Rock has this out of control ego to the point that you're comparing him to Warrior's delusions of grandeur. Unlike Warrior, Rocky worked for WWE for what, 9 years without ever not being under contract because of silly disputes? And almost half of that time he was getting movie work, so it's not as if he would've been totally unjustified in making himself a star. Instead, he's always been willing to put over talent, from Mankind to the Hurricane to Evolution; in fact, as a top babyface he lost more than any other top babyface in decades, possibly ever, and even when he came back and turned heel as a "hollywood" sellout, he proceeded to put over Goldberg and never tried to politic himself into a title he didn't deserve because he wasn't on the road full-time (compare with Hogan, Hollywood, circa 1998).

I have been a wrestling fan, since I was 4 in 1985, and for different reasons I respect ALL wrestlers.
But, The Rock is the only one that left wrestling for Hollywood, and I'm happy for him. At the same time, I think that Dwayne Johnson is a sell-out due to him turning his back on his Wrestling fans. So I have to agree with everything that John Cena is saying about The Rock.

It's fair to dislike The Rock for getting a better job and making more money where he doesn't have to take bumps at house shows 3 nights a week, but I guess that doesn't explain why you think he's some kind of egomaniac.

I mean has there ever been a "Rock refused to job" type story on any dirtsheet, ever?, the way there is with Hogan, Undertaker, HBK, Triple H, Austin, etc.? I'm not saying that would be definitive proof but it's a "where there's smoke, there's fire," situation, and right now you're just assuming there's a fire when everything is not only not smoky, it's minty fresh.

[shawn michaels 82]

I can't see any benefit with Rocky jobbing to Cena.

The crowd will hate it (and I can't think of anything worse for the 'E than the crowd furiously booing the result of the main event of your biggest event of the year), it won't win over anyone that already hates Cena, and by giving Cena the win right out of the gate, you put a big dent in any benefits to bringing the Rock back later on if the rumours of him being booked for more matches in the future are true.

If I'm booking it, Rock wins clean in Miami, Cena suffers a huge crisis of confidence as a result - you can then spend the next year building him back up, perhaps with a feud against a heel who's good at the psychological side of things and can work that angle via promos (Jericho, perhaps?), culminating in a return match at the next 'Mania, where Cena avenges the loss. After that, I'd probably leave it at 1-1 - I can't see any advantage to dragging the feud out any longer. If Rocky's booked for another match after that, give him a 'loser retires' match against HHH.

Really? Against HHH? Are you kidding? 2 old farts in loser retire match? Then they should both lose, right? Because it woud probably be Rock's final match and all. And isn't Trips ego big enough already? Rock jobbing to him? Or trips even being in that match? God, i hope not!

[lazorbeak]

I can't see any benefit with Rocky jobbing to Cena.

The crowd will hate it (and I can't think of anything worse for the 'E than the crowd furiously booing the result of the main event of your biggest event of the year), it won't win over anyone that already hates Cena, and by giving Cena the win right out of the gate, you put a big dent in any benefits to bringing the Rock back later on if the rumours of him being booked for more matches in the future are true.

If I'm booking it, Rock wins clean in Miami, Cena suffers a huge crisis of confidence as a result - you can then spend the next year building him back up, perhaps with a feud against a heel who's good at the psychological side of things and can work that angle via promos (Jericho, perhaps?), culminating in a return match at the next 'Mania, where Cena avenges the loss. After that, I'd probably leave it at 1-1 - I can't see any advantage to dragging the feud out any longer. If Rocky's booked for another match after that, give him a 'loser retires' match against HHH.

You don't see any advantage? Cena is the guy that's on the road 7 days a week and he beats a guy that hasn't wrestled in years but is still more over than him. The result is: Cena is more over. If they do want to turn Cena heel it would give him a great reason to work against Punk or Orton or whoever- that the crowd booed him on the biggest stage on the biggest win of his career. Not saying that's a good idea either, but I don't really understand the "no benefit" idea. To me the benefit is that the guy that's part of your regular roster looks better than the nostalgia guy, so at least younger fans won't get this idea that the Attitude era was this golden age; some smarks will still think that anyway, but I think it's better not to encourage them.

Besides, I don't think there's the same value to Rock coming back whether he wins or loses- he's an attraction now, and the whole reason people want to see him wrestle is they haven't seen it in years. If he works another show next year it won't have the same appeal no matter what.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "right out of the gate?" This feud has been going on for a year!

[shawn michaels 82]

It's fair to dislike The Rock for getting a better job and making more money where he doesn't have to take bumps at house shows 3 nights a week, but I guess that doesn't explain why you think he's some kind of egomaniac.

I mean has there ever been a "Rock refused to job" type story on any dirtsheet, ever?, the way there is with Hogan, Undertaker, HBK, Triple H, Austin, etc.? I'm not saying that would be definitive proof but it's a "where there's smoke, there's fire," situation, and right now you're just assuming there's a fire when everything is not only not smoky, it's minty fresh.

Yeah, it's not. I can't really understand why a guy who gets a better job, with less chances of hurting himself in the long run and that allows him and his family better chances of a financially solid future is a sell out. I mean...dude, is it a crime to go acting? Please. It's not like he turned his back on wrestling without an explanation. He still jobbed to evolution before departing and cambe back now, when he didn't even needed to, to gives at least one more match. And some people (not saying you, i understand that you're not one of those) still call him a sell out? Some people's definition of sell out needs to be reviewed, or revised, or whatever the word is. Quickly!

[Nathers7]

I can't see any benefit with Rocky jobbing to Cena.

The crowd will hate it (and I can't think of anything worse for the 'E than the crowd furiously booing the result of the main event of your biggest event of the year), it won't win over anyone that already hates Cena, and by giving Cena the win right out of the gate, you put a big dent in any benefits to bringing the Rock back later on if the rumours of him being booked for more matches in the future are true.

If I'm booking it, Rock wins clean in Miami, Cena suffers a huge crisis of confidence as a result - you can then spend the next year building him back up, perhaps with a feud against a heel who's good at the psychological side of things and can work that angle via promos (Jericho, perhaps?), culminating in a return match at the next 'Mania, where Cena avenges the loss. After that, I'd probably leave it at 1-1 - I can't see any advantage to dragging the feud out any longer. If Rocky's booked for another match after that, give him a 'loser retires' match against HHH.

This is what should happen, the only way they have Cena win at Mania is if he turns heel (which isn't happening ever).

Also shawn, Rock is hardly an old fart lol, he's like 38. I would rather have him feud with Jericho over HHH though, Rock-Jericho feuds were great back in the day.

[Target Practice]

You don't see any advantage? Cena is the guy that's on the road 7 days a week and he beats a guy that hasn't wrestled in years but is still more over than him. The result is: Cena is more over. If they do want to turn Cena heel it would give him a great reason to work against Punk or Orton or whoever- that the crowd booed him on the biggest stage on the biggest win of his career. Not saying that's a good idea either, but I don't really understand the "no benefit" idea. To me the benefit is that the guy that's part of your regular roster looks better than the nostalgia guy, so at least younger fans won't get this idea that the Attitude era was this golden age; some smarks will still think that anyway, but I think it's better not to encourage them.
There's the problem though - the younger fans are already massively behind Cena, so the Rock putting him over doesn't make any difference to them. On the other side of the coin, the guys hating on Cena are going to hate Cena no matter what, so having him beat Rock at Mania is only going to pour fuel on the fire. If Cena puts Rock over, you can reboot his character with this 'crisis of confidence' angle, have him drop a match here and there to guys he'd comfortably beat. Doing that, you're erasing the ghost of Cena's dreaded 'boring invincible hero' days and maybe -just maybe- get some of the haters back on board. If Cena overcomes the Rock in The Rock's hometown in one of the biggest matches in WWE's recent history? Same old Cena.

Besides, I don't think there's the same value to Rock coming back whether he wins or loses- he's an attraction now, and the whole reason people want to see him wrestle is they haven't seen it in years. If he works another show next year it won't have the same appeal no matter what.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "right out of the gate?" This feud has been going on for a year!

Oh yeah, there's definitely going to be a case of diminishing returns with Rock - the more he comes back, the less effect he'll have, but hopefully, if the first match with Cena is dramatic enough, that will make up for the loss of novelty. However, you're right - the 'E don't want to overdo it, or it will quickly wear thin.

As for 'right out of the gate' - I meant as in the first match between the two of them - the feud's been going for a year, but assuming the Rock's around for a second match, I just don't think it's a good idea to let Cena win the first.

[juggaloninjalee]

I've never heard of anyone disliking Rock in the business other than Sting. That was only for his asking Booker T (then WCW champ) who in the blue hell he was and then telling him it didn't matter who he was.

Rock has done jobs for Brock Lesnar (unlike Austin who refused and retired), Goldberg (why? cuz he was asked to), and Mankind (yeah the fat guy with a sock on his hand ;)).

Rock is a true professional it seems to me.

[ThatChizzle]

The Rock's ego has been stated several times by John Cena, and no, I don't read dirt sheets. I just read this forum.
As far as The Rock doing the Ultimate Warrior crap, I didn't say he WOULD, I just said he COULD.
And I also said that I was happy for Dwayne Johnson for becoming a Hollywood star. Any wrestler would love that, making more money and not having to bump is a win/win situation.
What I meant was that, from a Wrestling Fan perspective, he "sold-out" on his fans. Maybe "sell-out" or "sold-out" is too harsh.
I dunno, ever since he left WWE, I have hated him for leaving, but I'm def. happy for him to make more money, everyone in the US dreams of such things.

(Sometimes, I just speak my personal mind, and a lot of the time, people will not like what I say, but thats my personal opinion) :)

[shawn michaels 82]

There's the problem though - the younger fans are already massively behind Cena, so the Rock putting him over doesn't make any difference to them. On the other side of the coin, the guys hating on Cena are going to hate Cena no matter what, so having him beat Rock at Mania is only going to pour fuel on the fire. If Cena puts Rock over, you can reboot his character with this 'crisis of confidence' angle, have him drop a match here and there to guys he'd comfortably beat. Doing that, you're erasing the ghost of Cena's dreaded 'boring invincible hero' days and maybe -just maybe- get some of the haters back on board. If Cena overcomes the Rock in The Rock's hometown in one of the biggest matches in WWE's recent history? Same old Cena.

At this point, the younger fans probably aren't as much as they should (though they are still Cena's bigger suporters) or the PG thing wouldn't be a fail, as it is. Cena Haters will never go on board, regardless of what he does, ho we wins/loses to. It almost a decade of having him shuved down our throats. That will never go away, i don't care if he jobs to Mr. T. But i would happily pay to see him job. :D

At this point, Cena's biggest fan base is children, women and middle-age guys. And he's still the most marketable guy they have full time right now. (At least that's the consensus, i've never seen WWE's accounting books, so i can't prove it) This only proves that wrestling really is on a slump.

Edit: John Cena stating about The Rock's ego proves nothing. Afterall...they are feuding. lol

[The Final Countdown]

I have been a wrestling fan, since I was 4 in 1985, and for different reasons I respect ALL wrestlers.
But, The Rock is the only one that left wrestling for Hollywood, and I'm happy for him. At the same time, I think that Dwayne Johnson is a sell-out due to him turning his back on his Wrestling fans. So I have to agree with everything that John Cena is saying about The Rock.
He's hardly the first to try. Off the top of my head, Hogan and Piper both tried to do the same thing. Rock just happened to succeed, while they didn't.

[Arrows]

He's hardly the first to try. Off the top of my head, Hogan and Piper both tried to do the same thing. Rock just happened to succeed, while they didn't.

Thank you!

All this whining and complaining from Cena because Rocky went to hollywood, and all it's done is make Cena look like a joke. I honestly hope to god Rock comes out and makes it plain and simple. The ONLY reason John Cena is at RAW every monday night, is because his attempts to make a switch to movies, bombed.

He's a god awful actor, and pretending to beat up half a dozen people while failing to make any of them look good in the process is all he can do.

The Rock didn't sell out. The Rock got smart. Why kill himself in the ring? With the horrible things that have happened to so many wrestlers, why should Rock wrestle every week? Because Cena does? Because the fans want to see him?

I wanna see the most entertaining man in the business, talking, and doing his thing, be it in the ring or in movies. Not laying in some box because he got hooked on some stuff that ended his life way too early.

[juggaloninjalee]

The Rock's ego has been stated several times by John Cena, and no, I don't read dirt sheets. I just read this forum.
As far as The Rock doing the Ultimate Warrior crap, I didn't say he WOULD, I just said he COULD.
And I also said that I was happy for Dwayne Johnson for becoming a Hollywood star. Any wrestler would love that, making more money and not having to bump is a win/win situation.
What I meant was that, from a Wrestling Fan perspective, he "sold-out" on his fans. Maybe "sell-out" or "sold-out" is too harsh.
I dunno, ever since he left WWE, I have hated him for leaving, but I'm def. happy for him to make more money, everyone in the US dreams of such things.

(Sometimes, I just speak my personal mind, and a lot of the time, people will not like what I say, but thats my personal opinion) :)

The Rock didn't choose to just leave. The WWE forgot to attempt to renew his contract. It was when Vince was out because of his torn quads I think. Rock was upset they didn't even attempt to resign him until after his contract expired.

Either way I think Rock will win. He is scheduled to appear in more dates after Wrestlemania which is why I think he may win actually.

[shawn michaels 82]

He's hardly the first to try. Off the top of my head, Hogan and Piper both tried to do the same thing. Rock just happened to succeed, while they didn't.

Yeah. And that doesn't make him a sell-out.

[bigtplaystew]

He's hardly the first to try. Off the top of my head, Hogan and Piper both tried to do the same thing. Rock just happened to succeed, while they didn't.

I wouldn't say Hogan was a failed actor. He was pretty popular for awhile there and made some feature films. Also, he was an still is a household name. Largely because of his post-wrestling stuff.

I'm not saying he is in any way, shape, or form a more successful wrestler-turned-actor than the Rock. But he definitely wasn't a "failure" by any stretch in my opinion.

[Fantabulous]

Dwayne Johnson has absolutely no obligation to wrestling or its fans and anyone who feels he does has a laughably high opinion of themselves and their importance. Dwayne's obligation is to himself and his family and that's it. Any wrestling fan who feels he owes them, singularly or a a whole, anything needs a reality check and realize they're not the centre of anybody's universe. Any moral obligation Dwayne might have felt towards WWE ended when they let his contract run out at the end of 2004 and they never even gave him the courtesy of a phone call about it. Yes, they patched things up with Vince attributing it to a 'clerical error',but don't kid yourself about that one; Dwayne didn't stay away from WWE for a few years just to focus on his career. I know the guy is grateful for what wrestling did for him, but the idea he should stay beholden to wrestling or its fans is absurd.

[juggaloninjalee]

I wouldn't say Hogan was a failed actor. He was pretty popular for awhile there and made some feature films. Also, he was an still is a household name. Largely because of his post-wrestling stuff.

I'm not saying he is in any way, shape, or form a more successful wrestler-turned-actor than the Rock. But he definitely wasn't a "failure" by any stretch in my opinion.

Plus don't forget NO HOLDS BARRED!!! I loved that movie. Espescially when he rips the door off the car... sniff sniff... WHAT'S THAT SMELL?!?!?!

Dddddddddd Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuukie!

[shawn michaels 82]

I wouldn't say Hogan was a failed actor. He was pretty popular for awhile there and made some feature films. Also, he was an still is a household name. Largely because of his post-wrestling stuff.

I'm not saying he is in any way, shape, or form a more successful wrestler-turned-actor than the Rock. But he definitely wasn't a "failure" by any stretch in my opinion.

Hogan failed, regardless of his initial good start. He ended up a washed up actor, later washed up wrestler...and the only place where he might be a household name is maybe in TNA's wildest dreams. Hogan's personality closed a lot of doors to him. And him insistint to wrestle past his prime, didn't help that much either. Especially because he was never good at his prime either. (In skills, i mean) Even Cena is more talented in the ring than him.

[Astil]

Thank you!

All this whining and complaining from Cena because Rocky went to hollywood, and all it's done is make Cena look like a joke. I honestly hope to god Rock comes out and makes it plain and simple. The ONLY reason John Cena is at RAW every monday night, is because his attempts to make a switch to movies, bombed.

He's a god awful actor, and pretending to beat up half a dozen people while failing to make any of them look good in the process is all he can do.

The Rock didn't sell out. The Rock got smart. Why kill himself in the ring? With the horrible things that have happened to so many wrestlers, why should Rock wrestle every week? Because Cena does? Because the fans want to see him?

I wanna see the most entertaining man in the business, talking, and doing his thing, be it in the ring or in movies. Not laying in some box because he got hooked on some stuff that ended his life way too early.

This argument would hold weight if Rock come back and act like he was 'home'. Don't patronize, Rock.

[djthefunkchris]

Both of those example's are pretty bad, to be honest. Piper actually has been making a living in films/tv since he retired, and didn't really get into them til after he was bassically done in the ring (outside of nostalgia events).

Hogan never wanted to be a movie star, always used it for his Wrestling popularity. He only did Rocky III because he had made a promise BEFORE Vince tried to get him under contract. He has only done like 14 movies, and half of them had to do with wrestling, and most was during the 90's, when he was still going strong... still showing up for wrestling.

Actually, you could probably compare Hogan's movie career to that of John Cena, as neither ever left while making movies. I doubt either of them ever would have no matter how big the movie would have been.

I don't get where people think that just because one person took one route, that the only reason someone else didn't go that route was because they "couldn't"... In one way I agree, they couldn't because their heart was somewhere else... but to say Hulk Hogan couldn't have been in some of the big box office smash's that come out during his most popular days, is lacking any knowledge of other reasons he might not have done it... The number one reason he done bassically only cameo bits, was because he didn't want to spend any more time on them then that... as he didn't want to miss too much of his wrestling carreer going on at the time...

The difference is The Rock took that road that many could have took before him, not because ONLY The Rock could do it. The Rock certainly could be the most successfull of the example's, as he's a much better actor. However, it doesn't mean they "Couldn't" have done it. It's what they chose to do as opposed to what he chose to do.

[djthefunkchris]

Plus don't forget NO HOLDS BARRED!!! I loved that movie. Espescially when he rips the door off the car... sniff sniff... WHAT'S THAT SMELL?!?!?!

Dddddddddd Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuukie!

Debuted at #2, in back of Indiana Jones and the Last crusade, I believe.

To bad Vince only broke even for that investment, lol.

[Arrows]

You can't blame the man for choosing his life and physical well being over performing for a bunch of people who'd turn on him in an instant. WWE's still home to the man. It's what made him. It's a huge part of who he is, and likely always will be a huge part of him. Doesn't mean he should be gone from his family most of the year and do serious damage to his body.

[djthefunkchris]

Dwayne Johnson has absolutely no obligation to wrestling or its fans and anyone who feels he does has a laughably high opinion of themselves and their importance. Dwayne's obligation is to himself and his family and that's it. Any wrestling fan who feels he owes them, singularly or a a whole, anything needs a reality check and realize they're not the centre of anybody's universe. Any moral obligation Dwayne might have felt towards WWE ended when they let his contract run out at the end of 2004 and they never even gave him the courtesy of a phone call about it. Yes, they patched things up with Vince attributing it to a 'clerical error',but don't kid yourself about that one; Dwayne didn't stay away from WWE for a few years just to focus on his career. I know the guy is grateful for what wrestling did for him, but the idea he should stay beholden to wrestling or its fans is absurd.

I halfway agree with you, the fact that they let his contract expire, I imagine is the biggest reason The Rock hasn't been around in the WWE since. Clerical error or not, I'm willing to bet it wasn't, and The Rock knows this as well... The best way to get back at someone for that, is to go on and be more successful then they thought you would.

Far as "owing" fans or whatever... I dissagree only in the fact I don't think he would have had the opportunities that wrestling provided for him. His popularity as a wrestler is what I believe led him to the roles he was able to get (at the beginning of his Acting Carreer), and I believe he knows that. Probably the ONLY reason he's come back, and the knowledge that he knows how this is supposed to work (the handing of the torch, eventually to the "next" big name).

[Fantabulous]

Presumably, the people upset with Rock for 'selling out' will also hand back a portion of their Wrestlemania payoff in protest so they don't profit from a guy who did something so heinous as leaving wrestling.

[djthefunkchris]

You can't blame the man for choosing his life and physical well being over performing for a bunch of people who'd turn on him in an instant. WWE's still home to the man. It's what made him. It's a huge part of who he is, and likely always will be a huge part of him. Doesn't mean he should be gone from his family most of the year and do serious damage to his body.

No one is taking that stance.

Everytime this exact statement is made, the answer is simply, He didn't have to be a full time Wrestler. He is charismatic enough to be just a personality, or even do just an update on himself every now and then through wrestling, to his fans.. "Hey Dwayne is still "Rocking" Hollywood everyone! Next movie is ____!" and people would have been all excited for him and it could have even made him more successful in my opinion.

The fact that his contract expired brings a while new meaning to everything for me though... and I can't think of anything better to get back at someone for letting that happen, then to go on and become more successful doing things outside of the WWE, in which he did.

[juggaloninjalee]

I think the Rock is doing what we all want him to do.

It is funny though how Undertaker can work 1 match a year and get so much praise and respect but when Rock comes back now and works periodically for WWE thru the year he gets crapped on by some of those same people.

Rock is great for the WWE. He is good for business and that is exactly what the WWE is a business. All they care about is the money. Sorry but it's true.

[djthefunkchris]

Presumably, the people upset with Rock for 'selling out' will also hand back a portion of their Wrestlemania payoff in protest so they don't profit from a guy who did something so heinous as leaving wrestling.

You really need to elaborate on some of your statements, because I have no idea what you mean by this at all, lol.

[djthefunkchris]

I think the Rock is doing what we all want him to do.

It is funny though how Undertaker can work 1 match a year and get so much praise and respect but when Rock comes back now and works periodically for WWE thru the year he gets crapped on by some of those same people.

Rock is great for the WWE. He is good for business and that is exactly what the WWE is a business. All they care about is the money. Sorry but it's true.

That's because it's part of the storyline. Mr. Fruity Pebbles vs. Sell Out Rock. It's just to sell more tickets and get people debating (like we are).

Fact is, all this fuss being made on this thread is exactly why the story is laid out in such a way... To get all the hardcore Rock fans to talk badly about Cena, and all those that agree with Cena to attack the Rock Fans.

If not for a little knowledge of actual reasons, this thread could just blow up from this, and it's exactly what the WWE are looking for.

[Fantabulous]

This reminds me of when Brock Lesnar quit WWE and people cried the blues. There was a ton of negativity, ranging from quiet resentment to raging fury, aimed at Brock for daring to walk out on wrestling. Wrestling fans have a horrible tendency to be all about what you've done for them lately and as soon as they're bored no longer giving a damn.

[djthefunkchris]

This reminds me of when Brock Lesnar quit WWE and people cried the blues. There was a ton of negativity, ranging from quiet resentment to raging fury, aimed at Brock for daring to walk out on wrestling. Wrestling fans have a horrible tendency to be all about what you've done for them lately and as soon as they're bored no longer giving a damn.

I honestly don't believe that. For the most part, the general fans seem to support good guys, and hate bad guys, just like wrestling shows want. It's when you get into the smarks and such that it's so wishy washy. Who was great to them five years ago, needs to step down to their "Next Wish" as soon as possible, and yesturday was too late.

Sometimes I think half the IWC boards just want the worse possible guy to be on the Main Event, just to see what would happen. Sometimes I think it's just that they want to think of themselves as superior. Most of the time I think they wouldn't do half of what they suggested if it was their bussiness, because half of what they suggest would fail misserably.

Thats why I like this board, because we get alot more diversity here. People that have very different opinions on what they feel are "Good for bussiness", and everyone here wants what is best, not just to mess with people.

[Arrows]

This reminds me of when Brock Lesnar quit WWE and people cried the blues. There was a ton of negativity, ranging from quiet resentment to raging fury, aimed at Brock for daring to walk out on wrestling. Wrestling fans have a horrible tendency to be all about what you've done for them lately and as soon as they're bored no longer giving a damn.

Brock went about it horribly though. See: Goldberg vs. Brock.

[djthefunkchris]

Brock will be back in wrestling.:cool:

[Fantabulous]

Brock went about it horribly though. See: Goldberg vs. Brock.

That match was in no way as bad as history has rewritten it. People had already decided they were going to crap all over the match and both guys, because they knew it was the last night for them both and they'd committed the cardinal sin and dared to leave. It wasn't a great match by any means, but history has it written down as one of the worst matches of all time when that's just not true. It was a decent match that happened to suffer from being probably the most rejected match of all time. They could have had a classic for the ages and that crowd would have farted all over it.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I have been a wrestling fan, since I was 4 in 1985, and for different reasons I respect ALL wrestlers.
But, The Rock is the only one that left wrestling for Hollywood, and I'm happy for him. At the same time, I think that Dwayne Johnson is a sell-out due to him turning his back on his Wrestling fans. So I have to agree with everything that John Cena is saying about The Rock. I haven't liked Cena's gimmick for a while, but they are fixing parts of Cena, and I'm def. liking where its going. And for the people who chant "Cena Sucks", it reminds me when Rocky Maivia first started.
Rocky Maivia used to be a babyface wearing his little feathery attire, smiling at the crowd, and after a while, everyone started hating him. It's the same thing thats going on with John Cena. At least the crowd only chants "Cena Sucks", lol the crowd used to chant "Die Rocky Die" and carry in signs of the same type. So at least Cena hasen't been hated as much as the Rock was.
Vince McMahon gave The Rock the microphone and let him speak his mind, and the crowd warmed back up to him. That is what they need to do to Cena. Quit having Cena doing PG, and reading scripts, and let him work his own promos.

Umm.. they have been letting Cena work his own promos. For years. When Orton stepped up and talked against The Rock, he said just that. Cena has been ad-libbing for years, most of what you see is from him. And I find the "Cena Sucks" comparison with Rocky Maivia to be a bit trite - the latter was only a matter of weeks/months, and on a much smaller scale. The Cena Sucks thing has been going on for years, and there's next to nothing that's changed it. They've had Cena go up against guys like Kevin Federline and unlikeable heels like Khali to get the fans to cheer him again, which they do.. once that's over with it's right back to the booing. Only now could there possibly be a shift in balance, but it's been more or less heavy on Cena's side. Though to note overall, I see what you mean when you make the comparison.

I can't see any benefit with Rocky jobbing to Cena.

The crowd will hate it (and I can't think of anything worse for the 'E than the crowd furiously booing the result of the main event of your biggest event of the year), it won't win over anyone that already hates Cena, and by giving Cena the win right out of the gate, you put a big dent in any benefits to bringing the Rock back later on if the rumours of him being booked for more matches in the future are true.

If I'm booking it, Rock wins clean in Miami, Cena suffers a huge crisis of confidence as a result - you can then spend the next year building him back up, perhaps with a feud against a heel who's good at the psychological side of things and can work that angle via promos (Jericho, perhaps?), culminating in a return match at the next 'Mania, where Cena avenges the loss. After that, I'd probably leave it at 1-1 - I can't see any advantage to dragging the feud out any longer. If Rocky's booked for another match after that, give him a 'loser retires' match against HHH.

There's a few things to be re-checked here. First, the crowd will hate it? Do you remember where the show is being held? It's Rock's hometown. I think the rest goes without saying.

Two, you're giving way too much importance to the result. I think a lot of people do, and it leads them astray. There's not gonna be any "big dent" in anything. And I don't think it thoroughly matters who gets or doesn't get won over. If Cena wins.. Cena wins. Rock isn't gonna look any worse than he does. He can still return mere months later and look like King S**t. Because it's Cena we're talking about, not Kofi Kingston. If Rock wins, a lot of people are gonna go home happy, that's it. In fact, it might really be 50/50 depending on what Rock's stance will be during this culminating angle.

[juggaloninjalee]

Umm.. they have been letting Cena work his own promos. For years. When Orton stepped up and talked against The Rock, he said just that. Cena has been ad-libbing for years, most of what you see is from him. And I find the "Cena Sucks" comparison with Rocky Maivia to be a bit trite - the latter was only a matter of weeks/months, and on a much smaller scale. The Cena Sucks thing has been going on for years, and there's next to nothing that's changed it. They've had Cena go up against guys like Kevin Federline and unlikeable heels like Khali to get the fans to cheer him again, which they do.. once that's over with it's right back to the booing. Only now could there possibly be a shift in balance, but it's been more or less heavy on Cena's side. Though to note overall, I see what you mean when you make the comparison.



There's a few things to be re-checked here. First, the crowd will hate it? Do you remember where the show is being held? It's Rock's hometown. I think the rest goes without saying.

Two, you're giving way too much importance to the result. I think a lot of people do, and it leads them astray. There's not gonna be any "big dent" in anything. And I don't think it thoroughly matters who gets or doesn't get won over. If Cena wins.. Cena wins. Rock isn't gonna look any worse than he does. He can still return mere months later and look like King S**t. Because it's Cena we're talking about, not Kofi Kingston. If Rock wins, a lot of people are gonna go home happy, that's it. In fact, it might really be 50/50 depending on what Rock's stance will be during this culminating angle.

A loss for either guy won't matter. If Cena loses to the Rock then he lost to a guy who came in 100% and was one of the most over wrestlers of all time. If Rock loses to Cena it's because he was rusty. Both guys have a cop out and can demand a rematch basically.

A win for either won't elevate them and a loss for either won't bring them down either. It's a wash. This match is about making money and I think they will make more than on any other Wrestlemania.

Personally I want Rock to win. I think he might win too. I could see it going either way really.

[codey]

That match was in no way as bad as history has rewritten it. People had already decided they were going to crap all over the match and both guys, because they knew it was the last night for them both and they'd committed the cardinal sin and dared to leave. It wasn't a great match by any means, but history has it written down as one of the worst matches of all time when that's just not true. It was a decent match that happened to suffer from being probably the most rejected match of all time. They could have had a classic for the ages and that crowd would have farted all over it.

History has painted Goldberg as being terrible in general, which he wasnt. He wasn't great by any means, but he was able to work well, his moves looked extremely effective, and he could easily get the crowd on his side. But because he accidentally ended Brett Hart's career, everyone craps on him.

[The Final Countdown]

Both of those example's are pretty bad, to be honest. Piper actually has been making a living in films/tv since he retired, and didn't really get into them til after he was bassically done in the ring (outside of nostalgia events).

Hogan never wanted to be a movie star, always used it for his Wrestling popularity. He only did Rocky III because he had made a promise BEFORE Vince tried to get him under contract. He has only done like 14 movies, and half of them had to do with wrestling, and most was during the 90's, when he was still going strong... still showing up for wrestling.
The way I understood it, Piper's match at Wrestlemania 3 was supposed to be his last, as he was going to give it a shot in Hollywood. Ditto for Hogan at Wrestlemania 6. But neither one of them exactly made it happen, at least not anywhere near the level Rock has.

Maybe I'm misinformed, I don't know. But regardless, I think if Hogan had been given the opportunity to be a Rock-level star in Hollywood, he would have taken it in a heartbeat, and stepped away from the WWF just as Rock did. He stuck around/kept coming back because he could make more money in wrestling.

[shawn michaels 82]

The way I understood it, Piper's match at Wrestlemania 3 was supposed to be his last, as he was going to give it a shot in Hollywood. Ditto for Hogan at Wrestlemania 6. But neither one of them exactly made it happen, at least not anywhere near the level Rock has.

Maybe I'm misinformed, I don't know. But regardless, I think if Hogan had been given the opportunity to be a Rock-level star in Hollywood, he would have taken it in a heartbeat, and stepped away from the WWF just as Rock did. He stuck around/kept coming back because he could make more money in wrestling.

Exactly. Never would Hogan refuse a Hollywood carreer. He only remained with wrestling cause eventually his movie career bombed and the money to be made was in wrestling. And for those saying that Dwayne isn't the only one capable of doing it: yes he is! He is the first wrestler EVER to become a successfull movie star. And probably the only one for many years to come. It's not easy, if it was, many others would follow that path.

[Target Practice]

Unless I dreamed it, didn't Mr Cena himself have a spate of movies a few years back? Whilst I don't recall any of them quite reaching the cinematic heights (or depths, if sarcasm isn't your thang) of Mr Nanny, I'm sure at least one of them made it to cinematic release.

[Fantabulous]

As the joke goes, Cena's movies weren't released, they escaped. Hogan bombed as a movie star, atomic style.

[Jaysin]

Unless I dreamed it, didn't Mr Cena himself have a spate of movies a few years back? Whilst I don't recall any of them quite reaching the cinematic heights (or depths, if sarcasm isn't your thang) of Mr Nanny, I'm sure at least one of them made it to cinematic release.

That he did, but Cena is a wrestler before he's an actor and hasn't turned his back on WWE or wrestling in general. If anything he's been the hardest working man in wrestling for years.

[Target Practice]

Heh. I still have a copy of The Marine on DVD sat on my shelf, still in the shrinkwrap. My brother got it for me as a 'joke' christmas present. I got him a book on the history of the mullet, so I think we were even that year.

Still, at least one good thing came of that film - when my daughter comes home from school one day and asks "daddy, what's an abortion?" I'll be able to stick the disc in and let her see for herself.

[Jaysin]

I didn't think the Marine was that bad at all. It was a fairly entertaining action flick.

[Target Practice]

To be completely fair, I've never even seen it - I'm simply extrapolating from previous films starring still-active wrestlers. I just wanted to use that joke. :p

[shawn michaels 82]

Heh. I still have a copy of The Marine on DVD sat on my shelf, still in the shrinkwrap. My brother got it for me as a 'joke' christmas present. I got him a book on the history of the mullet, so I think we were even that year.

Still, at least one good thing came of that film - when my daughter comes home from school one day and asks "daddy, what's an abortion?" I'll be able to stick the disc in and let her see for herself.

It's not a joke, it's actually perfect. Show it to her and she will see what an abortion really is. Cause that film sucks big time! :D

[bigtplaystew]

I'm being 100% dead serious here, no joke.

It's easy to be like "ughh... Cena sucks... Hogan sucks... ugghh..." like every other moron who knows nothing.

But let's look at this realistically. ALL of John Cenas films have drawn a profit. This is fact. Look it up. LITERALLY SPEAKING... he is a bankable movie star. Is he better than the Rock? Nope. But he's made money int he last ten years. More than some hollywood mainstays can say.

Hogan made terrible terrible films. Can't think of one good one off the top of my head. However, int he late 80s/early 90s... the man was a household name to a peak that I haven't seen since.

Neither John Cena NOR Hulk Hogan are failures in my opinion.

[Target Practice]

But I think that's where the distinction lies between Rock and Cena/Hogan - the other guys went out there and made bad movies that turned a (I'm guessing here, but I imagine I'm not too far off the mark) small to modest profit.
The Rock has gone out there and made (mostly - we don't talk about the Doom movie, because I tend to black out and people get hurt) good movies that have turned huge profits.

Hogan probably gets a bit of an exemption, because he was (and still is) a household name even before the movie career. Ask your grandparents who Hulk Hogan is, and they'll tell you he's a wrestler (and if you're from the UK, they'll probably add that he wasn't as good as Giant Haystacks) - ask them who The Rock is, and they're probably not going to know. No-one will EVER be as big as Hogan was in the very early 90s.
Unfortunately for him, it just so happened that the movies he was in were the cinematic equivalent of a Great Khali promo - it was just plain bad luck he happened to be around at a time when family movies were at their most loathesome.

On the other hand, you would struggle to argue that Rocky isn't a considerably better 'natural' for film than Hogan. He's got a natural charisma that some folks are lucky enough to be born with, whereas others are just cursed to be Randy Orton. Also, without getting too homoerotic, he's also pretty darn easy on the eyes, which never hurts your chances in Hollywood.

I guess we'll only really find out in the long term, but right now, I'd say Rocky has a much better shot at having a lasting Hollywood career than Hulkster or anyone else.



...man, we've ended up on one hell of a tangent here. :p

[shawn michaels 82]

But I think that's where the distinction lies between Rock and Cena/Hogan - the other guys went out there and made bad movies that turned a (I'm guessing here, but I imagine I'm not too far off the mark) small to modest profit.
The Rock has gone out there and made (mostly - we don't talk about the Doom movie, because I tend to black out and people get hurt) good movies that have turned huge profits.

Hogan probably gets a bit of an exemption, because he was (and still is) a household name even before the movie career. Ask your grandparents who Hulk Hogan is, and they'll tell you he's a wrestler (and if you're from the UK, they'll probably add that he wasn't as good as Giant Haystacks) - ask them who The Rock is, and they're probably not going to know. No-one will EVER be as big as Hogan was in the very early 90s.
Unfortunately for him, it just so happened that the movies he was in were the cinematic equivalent of a Great Khali promo - it was just plain bad luck he happened to be around at a time when family movies were at their most loathesome.

On the other hand, you would struggle to argue that Rocky isn't a considerably better 'natural' for film than Hogan. He's got a natural charisma that some folks are lucky enough to be born with, whereas others are just cursed to be Randy Orton. Also, without getting too homoerotic, he's also pretty darn easy on the eyes, which never hurts your chances in Hollywood.

I guess we'll only really find out in the long term, but right now, I'd say Rocky has a much better shot at having a lasting Hollywood career than Hulkster or anyone else.

...man, we've ended up on one hell of a tangent here. :p

Doom movie?

[Target Practice]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0419706/

Now let us never speak of it again.

[shawn michaels 82]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0419706/

Now let us never speak of it again.

OOhh! That one. Mega LOL. :D

[lazorbeak]

History has painted Goldberg as being terrible in general, which he wasnt. He wasn't great by any means, but he was able to work well, his moves looked extremely effective, and he could easily get the crowd on his side. But because he accidentally ended Brett Hart's career, everyone craps on him.

Yeah that might be going too far to the other side. He certainly wasn't terrible, but he was extremely stiff, couldn't sell or tell more than one story in the ring, and his inability to talk really hurt once the streak was done.

As far as movie stuff goes, I think Cena does have some potential, and if he wanted to be an actor I'm sure he could get work as Mark Wahlberg's steroided out brother or something, but for now he'd rather work as a wrestler so all we've seen of his acting has been in third rate WWE-produced stuff. And Hogan is absolutely a failed actor: he was one of the biggest wrestlers in the world at the height of its popularity (twice!) and still ended up getting parts in stuff like Three Ninjas: High Noon at Mega Mountain (http://www.yourstupidminds.com/2011/09/3-ninjas-high-noon-at-mega-mountain.html). Granted at least some of that was that he was so typecast as "that big blonde wrestler" that it was hard to take him seriously in Predator or whatever, but he's definitely a "failed actor." He made a real push to focus on his acting career in the mid-90's, and it absolutely did not work.

[Linsolv]

I didn't think the Marine was that bad at all. It was a fairly entertaining action flick.

QFT.

It was plain, but it actually played really well to Cena's strengths as a character actor. He was essentially the "serious" Cena everyone likes throughout the whole film.

[Moe Hunter]

Edit: Did Bobby Laslhey really left the E becasue of racist friction with creative, specifically Michael Hayes? I mean...how would Vince allow that? I thought he wanted to push Lashley to the moon!

Mark Henry has had run-ins with Michael Hayes, but nothing with any consequences.

Bobby Lashley left the WWE because his wife Kristal Lashley (nee Marshall) was originally going to play Edge's girlfriend and Smackdown GM - remember how leading up to her departure she was scheming her way towards taking Vickie Guerrero's job?

Basically Kristal didn't want to do it, and Bobby got all hot about them suggesting his wife make out with another superstar, so they both left. And, as we all know, Vickie ended up keeping the GM role and becoming Edge's love interest.

[ScottMulhern]

Both of those example's are pretty bad, to be honest. Piper actually has been making a living in films/tv since he retired, and didn't really get into them til after he was bassically done in the ring (outside of nostalgia events).

Hogan never wanted to be a movie star, always used it for his Wrestling popularity. He only did Rocky III because he had made a promise BEFORE Vince tried to get him under contract. He has only done like 14 movies, and half of them had to do with wrestling, and most was during the 90's, when he was still going strong... still showing up for wrestling.

Actually, you could probably compare Hogan's movie career to that of John Cena, as neither ever left while making movies. I doubt either of them ever would have no matter how big the movie would have been.

I don't get where people think that just because one person took one route, that the only reason someone else didn't go that route was because they "couldn't"... In one way I agree, they couldn't because their heart was somewhere else... but to say Hulk Hogan couldn't have been in some of the big box office smash's that come out during his most popular days, is lacking any knowledge of other reasons he might not have done it... The number one reason he done bassically only cameo bits, was because he didn't want to spend any more time on them then that... as he didn't want to miss too much of his wrestling carreer going on at the time...

The difference is The Rock took that road that many could have took before him, not because ONLY The Rock could do it. The Rock certainly could be the most successfull of the example's, as he's a much better actor. However, it doesn't mean they "Couldn't" have done it. It's what they chose to do as opposed to what he chose to do.

Cameo bits? You know brother... I'm not sure that Surburban Commando, No Holds Barred and Mr. Nanny were just cameo bits... brother? He tried to make it as an actor big time in the early ninties and failed... dude. I noticed watching TNA recently that the man still can't act... brother.

He can't pull off any other character than Hulk Hogan, heel or face. Actor or wrestler.

[BurningHamster]

Just because a movie turns a profit doesn't mean it's good.

:mad: I'll go back to being a disgruntled film grad who seems to exclusively like commercial failures now.

[Wrestling Century]

That match was in no way as bad as history has rewritten it. People had already decided they were going to crap all over the match and both guys, because they knew it was the last night for them both and they'd committed the cardinal sin and dared to leave. It wasn't a great match by any means, but history has it written down as one of the worst matches of all time when that's just not true. It was a decent match that happened to suffer from being probably the most rejected match of all time. They could have had a classic for the ages and that crowd would have farted all over it.

That's not true at all. Yes, the crowd crapped all over them before the bell to start even rang. But I have WMXX on DVD, and I've watched the entire show multiple times. That was a horrible match. History didn't rewrite it to be horrible. It was IMO the worst WM match of all time (at least the worst that actually had some build up behind it). It was nothing more than a 10 minute lock up and a Jackhammer at the end.