The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[foolinc]

So for those who still believe that TNA is not on the radar of the WWE, they have announced that Undertaker will be on Raw tonight to open the show.

Or Taker/HBK is the top match of the top PPV of the year and they want to build it up.

[justtxyank]

Or Taker/HBK is the top match of the top PPV of the year and they want to build it up.

Yep. It's probably just a coincidence that after TNA has been hyping their "first 5 minutes" (LOL TNA) WWE sends out Mobile Alerts and updates their webpage to let everyone know that Undertaker will open the Raw broadcast.

[Hyde Hill]

Or Taker/HBK is the top match of the top PPV of the year and they want to build it up.

Sure but then just as Justy said why suddenly let everyone know who will open the show. The Bret Hart thing was debatable this not so much. So who is going to give the little company that should another shot?
On the Wrestlemania card it looks quite good. I expect HHH to be added somewhere prolly vs Sheamus no1 contender or something. Orton vs one or both or triple threat of Legacy a bathroom break eh I mean divas match lol. Punk vs Mysterio looks to be on the books as well. So that would make 10 right?

[The Shape]

Yeah, which would be the most matches on a mania card since 2006. Maybe they'll team Trips and Orton up against the young guys, although after last year's main event...that might be a continuity stretch even for WWE, haha. I just don't see what they can do with Legacy and Orton that they haven't already done on Raw.

Also think that bret/vince might have a short, screwy finish and leave the payoff for interference in the cena/tista match.

[jesterx7769]

Is Undertaker opeing the show even that big of a deal? Not like their changing it so Austin is the gues host (which would be the real act of "war")What's gonna happen? The lights go out, smoke comes out of nowhere, he walks slowly to the ring, looks mean and "HBK...at WM...you will...rest...in...peace!" There, just saved everyone the time.

On a more serious note, I expect them to have Angel involved in the Undertaker's entrance thing/promo since it fits him

[alden]

I think the fact that they announced it and lets be honest.......taker is still the number one draw in the company for a "pop". If you want a garented good segment you call in taker........you want something that you know people are not going to switch over with you call in taker. Yeah it is a little "old" but come on.......who is not a taker mark still at this point.

[Bigpapa42]

I think the Undertaker opening shows that the WWE wants to keep people from checking out the first 5 minutes of TNA... but I don't think it shows they are intent on burying TNA. The best way for the WWE to do that would be a series of cross-brand PPV-caliber matches that they announced ahead of time. When they do that, I'll believe that the WWE is actually worried and doing everything they can.

[ampulator]

Although I dislike the direction WWE is going, TNA is not going to beat the WWE anytime soon. Too many internal issues. They got to get their **** straight.

[Tha Black Phenom]

TNA has always been on their radar, just not anything substiantial... merely a night watch. They're always gonna sprinkle a bit the Raws in contrast to TNA airings but it's hardly anything much and they could add much more if they wanted to.

[Tag01]

WWE isn't wetting the bed at night thinking about TNA, but if you think the bit with Taker isn't an attempt to undercut TNA you're naive.

[Bigpapa42]

WWE isn't wetting the bed at night thinking about TNA, but if you think the bit with Taker isn't an attempt to undercut TNA you're naive.

An attempt to undercut, yes. Absolutely. An attempt to bury, destroy, and embarrass TNA? No.

[Tag01]

Stone Cold as a guest host is nice. At least it's not the ladies from The View again.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Nothing from Raw really stood out, should've probably watched TNA more. Amused that Bourne got the last spot in MITB and the opening segment.. decent, aside from that meh.

[ECW 2.0]

Flipped between both TNA really out did raw I thing I will just record raw from now on and not flip

[Hyde Hill]

Is it me or does it look like Kofi will be off the Mania card while not so long ago being touted as a breakout star? Or will he just steal the intercontinental title of McIntyre in a squash?

For the record: This is not a bash just an observation.

[sabataged]

Is it me or does it look like Kofi will be off the Mania card while not so long ago being touted as a breakout star? Or will he just steal the intercontinental title of McIntyre in a squash?

For the record: This is not a bash just an observation.

I thought for sure he was a lock to win the Money in the Bank Match months ago. Now i am starting to feel like you do as far as him being left off the card.

[Hyde Hill]

So its:

Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kane vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Jack Swagger vs. MVP vs. Matt Hardy vs. Even Bourne.

Am I the only one having a hard time picking a winner. Only Cristian has been pushed out of these guys lately the rest where midcard Jobbers or Kane. Has Vince finally realized Christian is good enough for a world title run?

[The Shape]

Hopefully. Though maybe he'll cash it in and lose :(

I'd say MVP isn't a bad bet either. He still has the ability and it's not like people need momentum going into this thing to win it.

[LucianCarter]

I still think Drew McIntyre is going to steal somebody's spot in MitB and win it all.

[jjohns44]

I don't think Jericho will lose the title at Mania, Cena though will obviously be winning it. I could see Christian winning MITB and cashing it in against Jericho or Cena(bringing up the feud that never really happened between Cena and Christian before he left for TNA) If Edge wins it, I could see Christian vs. Edge or maybe they end up being champs on both brands.

[jjohns44]

I still think Drew McIntyre is going to steal somebody's spot in MitB and win it all.

Evan Bourne. Of all of them he seems to be the one everyone treats as the underdog jobber. Miz's comments 'i get my own locker room now. The other locker room is for all the Evan Bournes!"

[rd_dbacks01]

I have a feeling that they put Bourne in the match so he could do something exciting. If anyone I think Ziggler will not end up in the MITB.

[Tag01]

I figured MITB would lead to Edge vs. Christian for the belt.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Im hoping for Shelton to win MitB

[Remianen]

So, do you guys think that they have already announced all of the matches for WM26, or do you guys think that they will add more matches. I'm hoping for another match myself.

No, there are probably 2-3 more matches left to be announced (not including the probable NXT dark match(es).

Flipped between both TNA really out did raw I thing I will just record raw from now on and not flip

Yeah well, I disagree. RAW at least made sense and didn't involve a bunch of geezers spending inordinate amounts of time onscreen.

So its:

Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kane vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Jack Swagger vs. MVP vs. Matt Hardy vs. Even Bourne.

Am I the only one having a hard time picking a winner. Only Cristian has been pushed out of these guys lately the rest where midcard Jobbers or Kane. Has Vince finally realized Christian is good enough for a world title run?

I see a Kennedy-esque swerve coming. Christian's the only one among those with the chops to win MITB and be a credible world title contender. All the rest of them haven't been built up or really had any time as a 'top guy' (whereas Christian was top guy of ECW prior to its demise).

Im hoping for Shelton to win MitB

I don't think there's a chance in hell the black hole of charisma wins this match.

I really liked the Triple H-Sheamus segment. It was a very good Gatekeeper type of deal. But I notice Triple H omitted someone from his 'Ask' bit. What happened to Randy Orton? :)

[jesterx7769]

I DVR'd RAW and liked it better. Does it get boring sometimes? Sure, but atleast it didn't look like two monkey's f****n a football.

[Hyde Hill]

At least that doesn't get boring lol. Sorry too easy and I will stop. Still wrestlemania is shaping up to be a good card, better then last years. At least 2 matches I really care for.

RVD!

[lazorbeak]

I still can't believe Morrison isn't in MitB as he seems like the perfect fit to win it this year. That said I love the slow-burn feud between Miz and Morrison and their match a few months back was very good, so their tag title match should be solid.

I agree Christian's the current favorite, but I just can't buy Christian as a babyface champion. He's small, not particularly flashy, and while he has good charisma, his look has never been special. Seriously he's like Chris Jericho Jr. That said Christian vs. Edge ladder match for the title would be pretty money, even if both started off as babyfaces.

[Hyde Hill]

A Chris Jericho Jr. is still a lot better then most on the roster imo.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Was the Regal/Bourne match good? I was watching the competition at the time.

[jesterx7769]

WWE seems to be behind Morrison so I wouldnt be too worried about him. Interesting to see what match he does get.

[The Shape]

WWE seems to be behind Morrison so I wouldnt be too worried about him. Interesting to see what match he does get.

It's been announced him & Truth vs. Showmiz for the tag belts.

[jesterx7769]

*whoosh* over my head brain fade :p

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I've been watching a few old Raw episodes from january 98 on Watchxonline. I noticed that at the end of the first hour,they show the opening credits again, and change the commentary team(drop Cole and Kelly for Lawler). Its still the same show(stuff advertised as still to come in hour 1 are shown in hour 2 for e.g.). It throws me off when watching and confuses me.

Was it like this when first broadcast?

[TommyDreamerFan]

Vince use to split RAW up between two shows. 1st is RAW is War, 2nd hour is Warzone. He did this so he could charge more money to advertisers for the 2nd hour of programing since it got higher ratings.

[djthefunkchris]

All these NXT guys look good to me, this might be a better Idea then I originally thought.

[alden]

I've been watching a few old Raw episodes from january 98 on Watchxonline. I noticed that at the end of the first hour,they show the opening credits again, and change the commentary team(drop Cole and Kelly for Lawler). Its still the same show(stuff advertised as still to come in hour 1 are shown in hour 2 for e.g.). It throws me off when watching and confuses me.

Was it like this when first broadcast?

wcw did the same thing..........they had an hour one announce team and an hour two announce team......and brough in mike tenay for the "lucha" matches.

[sabataged]

I've been watching a few old Raw episodes from january 98 on Watchxonline. I noticed that at the end of the first hour,they show the opening credits again, and change the commentary team(drop Cole and Kelly for Lawler). Its still the same show(stuff advertised as still to come in hour 1 are shown in hour 2 for e.g.). It throws me off when watching and confuses me.

Was it like this when first broadcast?

One of the hours was Raw is War and the other hour was WarZone. They actually had two different shows and took credit for having the top two rated cable tv shows.

[TheOmniWarrior]

NXT is making me worried. Danielson is 0-3. Pretty soon he'll have to be called Daniel Regal.

[alden]

I think they are handling him great.......They are not going to super push him because it would not fit the storyline.....He is going to without a question be moved onto a show after this.......he does not need to win where a guy like gabrial does.........he is over and he is starting to show some more entertainment skills. He is doing what he needs to do.

[Daffanka]

NXT is making me worried. Danielson is 0-3. Pretty soon he'll have to be called Daniel Regal.

His first loss was against the HW champion, his second while injured, his third because of The Miz.

The guy is getting a big push and is really over, come on. His storyline with Miz is the focus of NXT. I don't think he'll actually win because he doesn't need it (probably save the win for Gabriel, Barrett or someone like that who could use the momentum more) but they're getting behind him big.

I'm more worried that after NXT he might end up in the RAW midcard hell.

[The Celt]

I agree with the last two comments.

I heard mention by some commentator on NXT that the "winner" gets a contract for RAW...mhh, personally I think Smackdown is more Bryan's type of show.

Anyways, I have to say I'm really enjoying NXT at the moment. I mean it's simple stories, and young, mostly untested talent but I'm really digging it. The 8 pros, 8 rookies system is so much more engrossing then WWECW was. I like the idea of everyone having positive relations and alliances as well as negative feuds, as well as the feeling that every star on NXT has solid story behind them already. You can't name anyone whose being left behind or in the shuffle on NXT.

Personally I see Bryan and Otunga as the main rookies of the show. At first I didn't like Otunga but when he showed me in episode 2 that he could work a match instead of just botching a finisher I warmed up to him. His gimmick is great...because it's not a gimmick. The guy is a pre-made celebrity that can actually go...that's mainstream appeal baby, and mainstream is money.

Darren Young in the SXS will be money. I can totally picture Punk transforming Young via a head shaving somewhere down the line. It doesn't have to be straight away, some more teasing will make for good TV, but when/if it happens it should be great. Also then we'll really see how much Young is Cena 2.0 :)

Justin Gabriel as the new Hardy Boy is great. He can't replace Jeff but I do actually think the fans want to see another Hardy Boyz style team, and that should be great for Gabriel's career. Gabriel and Hardy teaming on Smackdown would be a great fit.

Wade Barrett has been criticised by some as silly with the jacket thing, but as of the last show where Cole explained it it actually shows Barrett has some depth. I mean the different English Roses symboling different messages has appeal, and those that look up his blog will be rewarded for it.

Heath Slater is doing ok. Delivers his lines well despite a weak kind of voice. His pairing with Christian seems natural enough, as people are correct to say he is somewhat like a young Christian.

Tarver and Sheffield we haven't seen much of so judgement should be held off but I'm hopefully for these two as well.

[Tha Black Phenom]

NXT is making me worried. Danielson is 0-3. Pretty soon he'll have to be called Daniel Regal.

His first win could be a big one.

[The Final Countdown]

Danielson's 0-3, but I'd say he's made a better impression than any other rookie on the show. His storyline with The Miz is the highlight of the show, in my opinion. Of course, I might be biased.

[Daffanka]

Danielson's 0-3, but I'd say he's made a better impression than any other rookie on the show. His storyline with The Miz is the highlight of the show, in my opinion. Of course, I might be biased.

No you're absolutely right.

Also (future spoilers) apparently Danielson will be sabotaging Miz's attempt to cheat in a match against R-truth on Smackdown so I think you can safely say the Miz - Bryan feud is going to eclipse NXT.

I'm glad he adjusted to the WWE style so quickly. His early dark matches had a bit too much indie in them but he shook that off. His kicks got a very nice reaction and the crowd got behind his sorta heel hook since both Jericho and Otunga sold it like death.

[Mr_Tricky]

Otunga doesn't look very good in the ring and his mic skills are also lacking. He's got a good look and he's well known, but I'm not digging him right now.

Besides Danielson, Barrett is my favorite to win the show. He's got a good mix of in-ring ability, looks, charisma, and mic skills.

Gabriel looks like Adam Lambert on steroids. He didn't impress me in his first match, but he and Barrett put on the best match yet between the rookies I think.

I would like to see Young get a complete transformation going straight edge.

[Self]

As before, I'm not going to predict 'winners'. Just the NXT guys in the order I like 'em.

1 Skip Sheffield - I sorely missed the Cornfed Meathead dishing out knuckle-sandwiches this week. Yup yup yup. What it do?
2 Daniel Bryan - The Miz feud is chugging along nicely.
3 David Otunga - A great heel character saddled with a babyface role for the last couple of weeks. A shame.
4 Justin Gabriel - Disappointing video package. The clips of flippy-moves were fun, but there's little substance to the character thus far.
5 Wade Barrett - I don't like him, but he's at least shown something. Jericho yelling at Cole and Josh during his matches is awesome!
6 Michael Tarver - Three weeks. No knockouts. Come on, dude. 1.9 someone already!
7 Darren Young - Disappointing video package. Visually he's such a wacky guy, but what he was saying was bland, bordering on serious. He spoke in such generic, abstract statements. "I like being entertaining, I like having fun". Show, dude, don't Tell. Be entertaining. Be fun. Make us want you to defy the Straight Edge Society!
8 Heath Slater - Has done nothing that I find appealing or likeable.

[SeanMcFly]

Is it me or does it look like Kofi will be off the Mania card while not so long ago being touted as a breakout star? Or will he just steal the intercontinental title of McIntyre in a squash?

For the record: This is not a bash just an observation.

Not sure if this is true but...

According to certain sites it's going to be a Ten-Man Money in the Bank this year. SPOILERS IN WHITE

This Friday on Smackdown!, McMahon is going to pick a Local competitor to face off against McIntyre for a Money in the Bank spot, McIntyre is set to dominate him and win a spot in the match.

Next Monday, Kofi Kingston will also get a shot for the MitB, and He'll also win, making it a Ten-Man Match.

[The Shape]

LOL that'd be so epic.

[alden]

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!! that is going to be a cluster**** of a match and is going to be epic lol!11

[MattitudeV2]

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!! that is going to be a cluster**** of a match and is going to be epic lol!11

The Original MITB match was eight people if I remember correctley and that involved three men in this match.

Christian,Kane and Shelton Benjamin

[Tha Black Phenom]

*six

I already thought eight was a bit much, but I'll wait to see before passing judgment, should it happen.


Anyway, for those who missed this(Taker's incident at EC):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QDpOGE8dww

It got taken off the Net pretty quickly but here it is. I bet it was Kane.

[Hyde Hill]

Lol agreed B Phenom. It will also definitely be a cluster.... Still it will probably be an entertaining one. So Kofi ftw it seems. Glad.

[MattitudeV2]

*six

I already thought eight was a bit much, but I'll wait to see before passing judgment, should it happen.

Last years had eight and Wrestlemania 23 had eight so on three of the five occasions they've had eight only two others had less than eight, Wrestlemania 21 where there were six and Wrestlemania 22 where there were six

[Hyde Hill]

Yep the most have involved 8 he just helped to remind you that the original one was 6 what you where not sure on.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Is Heath Slater really Elmo Benson from the C-Verse? Think about it.

[Marshall]

Is Heath Slater really Elmo Benson from the C-Verse? Think about it.

No, Benson is class, Heath Slater's not :)

I'm thinking Justin Gabriel or David Otunga will win the show, with Bryan breaking off feuding with Miz anyway. Obviously, we still don't know what's going to happen by the season's end - in all likelihood, most of the Rookies will probably end up on Raw or Smackdown anyway. I can see Wade Barrett ending up siding with Regal and beating up Sheffield by show's end, as well as Darren Young becoming a permanent member of Punk's SES for starters.

[brashleyholland]

Anyway, for those who missed this(Taker's incident at EC):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QDpOGE8dww

It got taken off the Net pretty quickly but here it is. I bet it was Kane.

Damn, somebody missed their mark there!!!

Good job he's an undead-cult-biker-zombie, otherwise it could have been serious!

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Damn, somebody missed their mark there!!!

Good job he's an undead-cult-biker-zombie, otherwise it could have been serious!

Holy crap, can't believe I didn't notice this when watching. He got roasted.

[MrCanada]

I was just thinking now, I dont know why, what will be in NXT Season 2. It seems WWE put a lot of its developmental eggs in one basket putting alot of their bigger prospects on season one (Pretty much everyone but Young seems to have some form of potential at this point)

So who might be on season 2? Here's my guesses.

Kaval - Possible Pros: Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, or Rey Mysterio. I think the easy favourite to be a member. He and Joe Hennig were at one point going to be in Season 1, but WWE decided to shrink the roster. He'd obviously be the work horse of Season 2, but his kicks woul get him over alone. Any of the guys being his pro would work well I think.

Joe Hennig - Possible Pros: Randy Orton, Finlay, or William Regal. I think he actually might be more of a lock then Kaval at this point since he fits the mould better. Harder to pick a pro for. Orton makes sense. Gives the show its Jericho for the season, play of legacy routes. Finlay or Regal just make sense to play the "I knew your father" card and be hard nosed on him.

After these two it really opens up I think.

Richie Steamboat - Possible Pros: Chris Jericho, Ricky Steamboat, Kofi Kingston. He hasnt been in the system for long, and I doubt WWE wants to rush him through. I'm sure he'll only come up when Ricky thinks he's ready. Pros could be interesting. Bringing Ricky out from behind the curtian is ALWAYS welcome. But having Jericho back doing the "I hate you and your father" routine would be interesting.

Brett Dibiase - Possible Pros: Ted Dibiase, Cody Rhodes, or Randy Orton. In the Steamboat book of simply I dont think being ready. I guess it depends how long season 1 lasts. Maybe 6 months to a year from now he'll be more ready. The pros write themselves.

Alex Riley - Possible Pros: Jack Swagger, Santino Marella, Goldust. Been receiving a good deal of house show/pre-show tryouts. So WWE sees something in him, as far as being ready he is likely one of the more ready ones in FCW. Pros: The Carlito of the season. Someone like Swagger wors. You may be a whatever graduate, I'm a pro and an All-American American.

Alberto Banderas - Possible Pros: Rey Mysterio, Evan Bourne, John Morrison. He runs into the problem of being Mexican. I know that sounds bad. But language barrier, generic/bad look (Put the mask back on). He is likely the most ready guy in FCW besides Kaval though.

And from there I really feel it becomes a slipperly slop. As far as readiness goes, one would have to assume the next guys could be either Johnny Curtis or Joe Doering, but who knows. I wouldnt put it past WWE to want one of its new "freaks" on the show, Conrad Tanner, Jackson Andrews, or Kipp Christianson. Maybe having Kipp & Great Khali and Andrews & Big Show could be fun. Two giant tandems.

EDIT:

There is always a chance they do a Diva-Version or Tag Team Version as well.

[b0shey]

As before, I'm not going to predict 'winners'. Just the NXT guys in the order I like 'em.

1 Skip Sheffield - I sorely missed the Cornfed Meathead dishing out knuckle-sandwiches this week. Yup yup yup. What it do?
2 Daniel Bryan - The Miz feud is chugging along nicely.
3 David Otunga - A great heel character saddled with a babyface role for the last couple of weeks. A shame.
4 Justin Gabriel - Disappointing video package. The clips of flippy-moves were fun, but there's little substance to the character thus far.
5 Wade Barrett - I don't like him, but he's at least shown something. Jericho yelling at Cole and Josh during his matches is awesome!
6 Michael Tarver - Three weeks. No knockouts. Come on, dude. 1.9 someone already!
7 Darren Young - Disappointing video package. Visually he's such a wacky guy, but what he was saying was bland, bordering on serious. He spoke in such generic, abstract statements. "I like being entertaining, I like having fun". Show, dude, don't Tell. Be entertaining. Be fun. Make us want you to defy the Straight Edge Society!
8 Heath Slater - Has done nothing that I find appealing or likeable.

my view

1 Skip Sheffield I really loved when he had the Ryback gimmick and havent seen him much as Skip Sheffield but so far i like his new character.
2 Daniel Bryan Nothing to say really the winner of NXT S1
3 David Otunga - As Self said a great heel character shame if they turn him face.
4 Justin Gabriel I have seen him go in FCW, he is a great talent.
5 Wade Barrett I dont like him as a wrestler but in FCW he was an awesome heel commentator should stick him as that.
6 Michael Tarver KO someone already
7 Darren Young He was a fun babyface in FCW but not a Kofi/Bourne :p
8 Heath Slater Man i HATE Heath Slater, i cant stand him and hope he gets booted.

[Hyde Hill]

I was just thinking now, I dont know why, what will be in NXT Season 2. It seems WWE put a lot of its developmental eggs in one basket putting alot of their bigger prospects on season one (Pretty much everyone but Young seems to have some form of potential at this point)

So who might be on season 2? Here's my guesses.

Kaval - Possible Pros: Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, or Rey Mysterio. I think the easy favourite to be a member. He and Joe Hennig were at one point going to be in Season 1, but WWE decided to shrink the roster. He'd obviously be the work horse of Season 2, but his kicks woul get him over alone. Any of the guys being his pro would work well I think.

Joe Hennig - Possible Pros: Randy Orton, Finlay, or William Regal. I think he actually might be more of a lock then Kaval at this point since he fits the mould better. Harder to pick a pro for. Orton makes sense. Gives the show its Jericho for the season, play of legacy routes. Finlay or Regal just make sense to play the "I knew your father" card and be hard nosed on him.

After these two it really opens up I think.

Richie Steamboat - Possible Pros: Chris Jericho, Ricky Steamboat, Kofi Kingston. He hasnt been in the system for long, and I doubt WWE wants to rush him through. I'm sure he'll only come up when Ricky thinks he's ready. Pros could be interesting. Bringing Ricky out from behind the curtian is ALWAYS welcome. But having Jericho back doing the "I hate you and your father" routine would be interesting.

Brett Dibiase - Possible Pros: Ted Dibiase, Cody Rhodes, or Randy Orton. In the Steamboat book of simply I dont think being ready. I guess it depends how long season 1 lasts. Maybe 6 months to a year from now he'll be more ready. The pros write themselves.

Alex Riley - Possible Pros: Jack Swagger, Santino Marella, Goldust. Been receiving a good deal of house show/pre-show tryouts. So WWE sees something in him, as far as being ready he is likely one of the more ready ones in FCW. Pros: The Carlito of the season. Someone like Swagger wors. You may be a whatever graduate, I'm a pro and an All-American American.

Alberto Banderas - Possible Pros: Rey Mysterio, Evan Bourne, John Morrison. He runs into the problem of being Mexican. I know that sounds bad. But language barrier, generic/bad look (Put the mask back on). He is likely the most ready guy in FCW besides Kaval though.

And from there I really feel it becomes a slipperly slop. As far as readiness goes, one would have to assume the next guys could be either Johnny Curtis or Joe Doering, but who knows. I wouldnt put it past WWE to want one of its new "freaks" on the show, Conrad Tanner, Jackson Andrews, or Kipp Christianson. Maybe having Kipp & Great Khali and Andrews & Big Show could be fun. Two giant tandems.

EDIT:

There is always a chance they do a Diva-Version or Tag Team Version as well.

Or they could have hired a lot of new people or even repackaged some by then. Kinda early to be speculating imho. Diva or tag version could be cool as it would raise the profile of those divisions hopefully. Problem is I think that a lot of the WWE audience has been made to believe that those divisions don't matter.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Watching SD now. It's amazing how over Edge's Spear has gotten in the last few weeks.:D

[Candyman]

Or they could have hired a lot of new people or even repackaged some by then. Kinda early to be speculating imho. Diva or tag version could be cool as it would raise the profile of those divisions hopefully. Problem is I think that a lot of the WWE audience has been made to believe that those divisions don't matter.

I highly doubt anybody who gets hired between now and then will be called up before their current guys. They're not going to do a diva version, that's called the Diva Search and we saw how well that worked...tag version? They don't have any tag teams to mentor whatever young teams they have(and they don't have many of those, either).

[Candyman]

Sad news from JR's blog:

"I don't think that WWE is interested in putting me back on weekly TV and all the travel that comes along with it at this time. Would I love to work with King again? Certainly. Is this my call? Nope. Do I think that I will ever be paired with Lawler again on a regular basis? Highly unlikely."

Hopefully, if that's the case, they'll find a way to bring him back for a proper sendoff.

[Self]

I highly doubt anybody who gets hired between now and then will be called up before their current guys. They're not going to do a diva version, that's called the Diva Search and we saw how well that worked...tag version? They don't have any tag teams to mentor whatever young teams they have(and they don't have many of those, either).

You don't need tag team mentors. One mentor per team. Preferably guys with tag experience. Morrison. Miz. Matt Hardy. Shawn Michaels. Edge. Christian. Big Show...

Not that I'm a fan of a 'tag team only' version. What I'd like, in season 2, would be for there to be a tag team in it. Just one. Two best friends who dream of one day being tag team champions, torn apart by the every-man-for-himself nature of NXT, and perhaps mentors who hate each other. There's a story there, I think.

[Remianen]

I highly doubt anybody who gets hired between now and then will be called up before their current guys. They're not going to do a diva version, that's called the Diva Search and we saw how well that worked...tag version? They don't have any tag teams to mentor whatever young teams they have(and they don't have many of those, either).


Apples and oranges. The Diva Search was about as eye candy focused as a WEW or NWWL show. The NXT concept seems to be about people who can go in the ring, trying to develop personalities and followings with the audience. Nobody from the Diva Search could go in the ring (nor were they expected to). Problem is, the entire point of an eye candy contest is not conducive to creating compelling onscreen personas. THAT is why the Diva Search failed. It's like a woman being hired for her looks then wanting to be taken seriously. One or the other, having both is a rare occurrence (how many Trish types has the 'E had?).

[Wrestling Century]

So I want to know this. Who else here besides me is going to be ordering WrestleMania 26 on PPV?

[ampulator]

One or the other, having both is a rare occurrence (how many Trish types has the 'E had?).

On top of that, Trish was never part any Diva Search or Diva-Search-like contest. That in-it-of-itself was probably was good for her.

[Stennick]

I'm not sure if anyone here would actually know this or not since it has to do with WWE contracts but its been discussed before.

When someone is released they have a 90 day no compete clause. People don't realize just how many companies out there have a similar thing.

My question is they do get paid their downside for those 90 days right? Their not being forced to sit at home without income coming in for 90 days right?

[Daffanka]

I'm not sure if anyone here would actually know this or not since it has to do with WWE contracts but its been discussed before.

When someone is released they have a 90 day no compete clause. People don't realize just how many companies out there have a similar thing.

My question is they do get paid their downside for those 90 days right? Their not being forced to sit at home without income coming in for 90 days right?

It's optional. Either take the no compete clause and get the downside or ignore it and don't get paid.

[PeterHilton]

I'm not sure if anyone here would actually know this or not since it has to do with WWE contracts but its been discussed before.

When someone is released they have a 90 day no compete clause. People don't realize just how many companies out there have a similar thing.

My question is they do get paid their downside for those 90 days right? Their not being forced to sit at home without income coming in for 90 days right?

They probably are, in most cases.

I'm going based on the fact that these contracts are usually bought out. Which means the WWE owes a lump sum to the performer to end the contract early. That sum fulfills the E's olbigation and the 90 day is just a clasue in the contracts that's enforced like any other part of the contract the worker agreed to upon signing.

I'm not explaining it correctly, but I guess my point is this: if the performer agrees to the no-compete, then they have to abide it as long as the WWE fulfills their end of the deal (even while cutting them loose early) .

[Stennick]

So is there a 90 day no compete if the worker's contract expires?

[eayragt]

They probably are, in most cases.

I'm going based on the fact that these contracts are usually bought out. Which means the WWE owes a lump sum to the performer to end the contract early. That sum fulfills the E's olbigation and the 90 day is just a clasue in the contracts that's enforced like any other part of the contract the worker agreed to upon signing.

I'm not explaining it correctly, but I guess my point is this: if the performer agrees to the no-compete, then they have to abide it as long as the WWE fulfills their end of the deal (even while cutting them loose early) .

I think that'll be the case. It's effectively giving them there 90 day notice, paying them up front for the 90 days, telling them that they don't have to come to work for the next 90 days, but they can't compete for anyone else in the 90 days.

I think Peter put it more eloquently than me.

[PeterHilton]

So is there a 90 day no compete if the worker's contract expires?

IIRC Christian allowed his WWE deal to expire and walked away and still had to wait the 90 days to sign with TNA. So I'd yea..it's just a standard clause the performer has to abide by.

[Prophet]

I thought the 90 day clause only applied to companies with exposure? I believe London, Colt, and Chris Harris all made appearances with other companies soon after their releases, without complication due to the lack of tv exposure ... I could be wrong on the circumstance, though.

[PeterHilton]

I thought the 90 day clause only applied to companies with exposure? I believe London, Colt, and Chris Harris all made appearances with other companies soon after their releases, without complication due to the lack of tv exposure ... I could be wrong on the circumstance, though.

No I think you're right. I've read here and there that it only applies to companies with national TV or DVD distribution in the states.

When the Lesnar case was in the courts there was some extensive reporting done since a lot of the WWE contracts were entered as evidence.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah it comes into effect when it runs out. You could see those 90 days as paid overrun so to speak. They can't break the 90 days and not get paid though they would be sued for breach of contract even-though the contract has "expired". Also WWE loosened the rules a while back so as long as you don't appear on tv its ok. Tommy Dreamer is a recent example.

Still wondering what would happen if someone chose to break the 90 days rule though. But I guess the expenses aren't really worth the extra surprise factor.

[Moe Hunter]

IIRC Christian allowed his WWE deal to expire and walked away and still had to wait the 90 days to sign with TNA. So I'd yea..it's just a standard clause the performer has to abide by.

Nope, not at all. Christian was in TNA immediately. His last WWE appearance was the taping of the Nov 4 SD!, and he was on the TNA PPV held on Nov 15.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Any word on when (spoiler in white) Joey Mercury is supposed to come back

[brashleyholland]

I remember hearing a lot about this when I was following the Lesnar court case some years back.

As I understand it, WWE pays the talent quite far in arrears for things like royalties, appearance fees, etc; basically everything above and beyond their guaranteed money. These are all termed as 'bonus' payments. If you violate your no-compete, you forfeit any bonuses due.

When Lesnar was busy trying to prove that the WWE's no-competes were unfair, this was one of the points he raised...guys losing out on up to hundreds of thousands of dollars for work already completed prior to the termination date on the contracts.

He must have been trying to hard not to laugh when he signed that 10-year no-compete :-p

Anyway, this would explain why a guy like Christian could just turn up on TNA...it's possible that the amount he was owed was insignificant in comparison to what he would be making in TNA, or that he agreed a signing fee with TNA to compensate him the equivalent for violating the no-compete.

[eayragt]

Anyway, this would explain why a guy like Christian could just turn up on TNA...it's possible that the amount he was owed was insignificant in comparison to what he would be making in TNA, or that he agreed a signing fee with TNA to compensate him the equivalent for violating the no-compete.

The Christian one is purely down to his contract running out - once it ran out, WWE had no say on what he did. Most of the releases seem to happen while they're contract is still running, which is why WWE have a say in what happens.

The Lesnar situation is abnormal, as it wasn't WWE releasing Lesnar, it was Lesnar asking for his release. This meant that WWE could (in their minds) ask for any additional clauses (i.e. 10 year no Wrestling / MMA compete clause) that they wanted.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Are FCW workers contracted to WWE? What I mean is do they follow the same 90 day no compete clause as the wwes main roster?

[Master Gilmore]

Hall of Fame spoilers...















Did anyone hear about Gorgeous George being inducted?

[PeterHilton]

The Lesnar situation is abnormal, as it wasn't WWE releasing Lesnar, it was Lesnar asking for his release. This meant that WWE could (in their minds) ask for any additional clauses (i.e. 10 year no Wrestling / MMA compete clause) that they wanted.

And man were they wrong.

[bookerman]

So....for tonight's RAW...


What's the over/under on the number of stunners SCSA dishes out tonight? And more importantly, who does he stunner during the McMahon/Hart contract signing? Vince only? Bret only? Both? Neither? I think he gives Vince at least one and gives Bret an out. Plus, I don't think Bret is up to taking a stunner at this point.

[Wrestling Century]

Edit

[TheOmniWarrior]

Steve Austin stunners
VKM
Cena
Orton
Triple H
Some random guys from the audience
Michael Cole
Michael Tarver
Carlito
Christian
Zach Ryder
Another for Vince
One for Shawn
One for Taker
Another for vince
A pair for Legacy
Another for Vince
One for Swagger
Another for Viince
JBL shows up with beers.
They drink.
Stunner to JBL and another to VKM the end.


that many stunners all in a row.

[brashleyholland]

Edit

lol....:p

[jesterx7769]

Are FCW workers contracted to WWE? What I mean is do they follow the same 90 day no compete clause as the wwes main roster?

90% sure development contracts are different than main roster ones. Not sure the process as to when you switch over to a real contract but I know the old dev. contracts were a set rate and stuff, cant imagine its much different now.

[SeanMcFly]

Edit

Umm... What ?

[PeterHilton]

Love the Gorgeous George induction. Love hearing Bert Sugar talk about him.

[pantaloons]

Austin doesn't give a Stunner to Vince? Really?

[Wrestling Century]

Umm... What ?

It was just a stupid question that I decided to edit out, to save people the hassle of answering it.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Austin doesn't give a Stunner to Vince? Really?

I'd bet a fiver he stunnered him after the broadcast. Eh well.

Raw was ok.

[Wrestling Century]

Raw was ok.

As was TNA Impact IMO.

[Stennick]

It was just a stupid question that I decided to edit out, to save people the hassle of answering it.

Your post doesn't say "last edited by" which means that you didn't go back and edit the post you just put "edit" as your post instead of you know....just not posting anything.

It should be fun with Austin being the GM we haven't had a Rock, Hogan, Austin, any former top guy be a "host" for the night so this should be interesting.

[Wrestling Century]

Your post doesn't say "last edited by" which means that you didn't go back and edit the post you just put "edit" as your post instead of you know....just not posting anything.

It should be fun with Austin being the GM we haven't had a Rock, Hogan, Austin, any former top guy be a "host" for the night so this should be interesting.

Seriously, I edited my post. I don't know why it doesn't say that.

[TheOmniWarrior]

He did edit his post. Before that it said something about there not being a spoiler or something

[Astil]

Edit

Modkill: Wrestling Century

[Wrestling Century]

Modkill: Wrestling Century

No, that belongs on the Mafia Game forum! :p

[Astil]

No, that belongs on the Mafia Game forum! :p

I'm practicing.

[Zeel1]

Modkill: Wrestling Century

Wrestling Century is dead. He was Wailmer, Pokemon Aligned Sea Protector

[Wrestling Century]

Wrestling Century is dead. He was Wailmer, Pokemon Aligned Sea Protector

I burst out laughing right there! :D

[Stennick]

So I did not want a Wrestlemania rematch between Shawn and Taker I pretty much hate wrestlemania rematches I want to see original stuff but now I'm looking forward to it.

[jesterx7769]

If you edit your post within a certain time that edited thing doesn't pop up, I do it all the time to correct spelling errors.

[Bigpapa42]

So I did not want a Wrestlemania rematch between Shawn and Taker I pretty much hate wrestlemania rematches I want to see original stuff but now I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah, I seriously disliked the idea when it was first looking like a possibility. Looks like a solid enough WM overall. Definitely better than last year, when I actually attended.

Solid enough Raw tonight. If only they could have Stone Cold host every week. I expected Stunners all over the place, to be honest.

[Hyde Hill]

Pretty Good RAW but no stunner?

[PeterHilton]

Pretty Good RAW but no stunner?

My thoughts exactly.

[jjohns44]

So all the WM rematches of RAW involved interferences.

Good call on Bret faking it whoever said it earlier. I had a feeling that was going to happen too, but was expecting it to be revealed right before the match was going to start at WM

[Dragonmack]

Personally I'm waiting for Bret to reveal that he set up the whole 'broken leg' thing just to trick Vince into challenging him for the match at wrestlemania since he knew Vince would never agree to it if he thought Bret was 100%.

I can imagine the look of shock on Vince's face at the start of the match when Bret calmly takes the cast off and shows he can walk normally.

Man, did I ever call that one correctly!!! :D

I love it when I can predict sports entertainment so accurately.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Is Kozlov a face or a heel?
At end of ECW he was a face I think but last week on Raw he beat up Cena, and didnt show any hesitation like Mark Henry did. Or is Kozlov a tweener?

[PeterHilton]

Is Kozlov a face or a heel?
At end of ECW he was a face I think but last week on Raw he beat up Cena, and didnt show any hesitation like Mark Henry did. Or is Kozlov a tweener?

I think they're betting on the fact that no one watched ECW and ignoring continuity.

big angry russian = heel

[Hyde Hill]

Or they just let us fill in the blanks. Floundering in ECW and got a chance to get in good with the boss -> heel turn.

[MattitudeV2]

I know this is off topic but I think RAW needs something, oh what is it.......
....
....
....
GOT IT!
.....
NO BLAND FACE CHARACTERS

Kofi Kingston-Bland
Evan Bourne-Bland
Primo-Bland
Yoshi Tatsu-Bland
The Bellas-Bland
Eve-Bland
Gail Kim-Bland
Kelly Kelly-Bland
John Morrison-Bland
Matt Hardy-Bland
Tiffany-Bland

GIVE ME A REASON TO CHEER FOR THESE PEOPLE PLEASE WWE!

[jesterx7769]

I think the whole bland comes from their product changes in the last years as now the gimmicks are so similiar (faces or heels) there are no "gimmicky" people. The only ones that really exist are old, Shamus and CM Punk seem to be the only unique people they've tried introducing in recent time.

[Tha Black Phenom]

No character diversification. Basically what I said before. They went from booking tag teams as mindless zombies to booking midcarders as mindless zombies as well. They deliver generic conversational lines backstage and the spotlight is mainly left to main-eventers, the unified tag team champions and.. /sigh guest hosts.

[Hyde Hill]

I think the whole bland comes from their product changes in the last years as now the gimmicks are so similiar (faces or heels) there are no "gimmicky" people. The only ones that really exist are old, Shamus and CM Punk seem to be the only unique people they've tried introducing in recent time.

Even Sheamus is not that unique from a character standpoint just accent and look.

[jesterx7769]

Pretty bad then huh? :p

[MattitudeV2]

Pretty bad then huh? :p

Yep, and I was watching RAW last night and the bleeped out half of Austin's lines so the whole point for Austin being there was to promote... Damage a movie that's going straight to DVD and not for nothing I could see more people buying that then watching Wrestlemania this year. Also look at that list again three of those guys are in the Money in the Bank ladder match and one in the Unified Tag Team Championship Match.

[Stennick]

I liked Yoshi's character in ECW. The Christian/Yoshi build up was good stuff.

Evan, Primo, even Matt Hardy these guys are basically JBTTS at this point. So although its nice to have these guys have character thats just not the way the WWE works. Its not the attitude era where even lower card guys have gimmicks that shine through on t.v

[jesterx7769]

I liked NXT, I haven't watched it the last two weeks. Wish it was two hours, we actually got three real matches on the show, *thumbs up*

[TheOmniWarrior]

God... Danielson jobbing to Khali...
KHALI!
And Khali hasnt been on TV in a month, maybe more... and no excuse for Danielson this time. He is NXTs William Regal

[The Shape]

God... Danielson jobbing to Khali...
KHALI!
And Khali hasnt been on TV in a month, maybe more... and no excuse for Danielson this time. He is NXTs William Regal

lol he's still the focus of the show by a long shot.

[Tha Black Phenom]

As I said, Danielson's win is gonna be a big one. It might be hyped and whatnot, wouldn't put it past them if he were to win against Miz himself.

[Daffanka]

As I said, Danielson's win is gonna be a big one. It might be hyped and whatnot, wouldn't put it past them if he were to win against Miz himself.

Have him lose through the entire NXT through no fault of his own and get voted last. Then have him as a surprise entrant on the next RAW where he wins the US title from Miz.

My fantasy booking, not at all biased because Danielson is one of my favorite wrestlers. :D

[MrCanada]

FCW updated its webpage. New Funky names for all!

http://img2.pict.com/17/1d/94/3136154/0/jacobnovak.jpg
Dunno who this is...

http://img2.pict.com/44/7e/9f/3136155/0/drakebrewer.jpg
aka Joe Doering

http://img2.pict.com/51/e9/05/3136156/0/leokruger.jpg
aka Ray Leppan

http://img2.pict.com/a8/0c/b7/3136157/0/rudyparker.jpg
aka Asher Knight

http://img2.pict.com/60/98/d6/3136188/0/tamina.jpg
aka Sarona Snuka

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5689/hunico.jpg
aka Incognito

[Tag01]

I wasn't impressed at first, but I'm really taking to Justin Gabriel. I really like his strong style; wish he was a little bigger.

[justtxyank]

God... Danielson jobbing to Khali...
KHALI!
And Khali hasnt been on TV in a month, maybe more... and no excuse for Danielson this time. He is NXTs William Regal

IWC needs to get it together. Pro Wrestling isn't built around wins and losses anymore.

[The Final Countdown]

IWC needs to get it together. Pro Wrestling isn't built around wins and losses anymore.
Absolutely. And it makes perfect sense within the story they're telling with he and Miz. Still doesn't mean I liked seeing Danielson lose to that lumbering oaf. I think I would have preferred it if he had been wrestling Big Show instead. Accomplishes the same thing, except I wouldn't have had to watch Khali stink up my TV.

[MattitudeV2]

The Figure Four Weekly Newsletter is reporting that several stars backstage in WWE were said to be very pleased with last week's TNA Impact broadcast and are pulling for TNA as they feel competition is good for the business. Additionally, it's being said that some backstage WWE talents are becoming bored with WWE's product and are glad to see another product out there.

Source:PWMania.com

[Daffanka]

Apparently the wellness policy has been updated to include banning chair shots to the head of any kind.

Personally I support it because I don't want the people I watch wrestle dead before 60 but there's always some people who feel the wrestlers owe them to be maimed and beaten into concussions.

Absolutely. And it makes perfect sense within the story they're telling with he and Miz. Still doesn't mean I liked seeing Danielson lose to that lumbering oaf. I think I would have preferred it if he had been wrestling Big Show instead. Accomplishes the same thing, except I wouldn't have had to watch Khali stink up my TV.

The guy carried Khali to an almost watchable match. If that doesn't tell WWE brass that he's useful nothing will.

[Self]

Kind of a dull NXT this week. The highlight video was a repeat, and very few guys got to show personality. Highlights for me were Bryan/Khali (it was a fun spectacle match) and Jericho yelling at Josh Matthews on commentary (More!). Lowlights were the lack of Knockout punch from Michael Tarver (I officially no longer care about the guy) the lack of Skip Sheffield promo (not even a Yup Yup Yup. What it do?) and the fact that Heath Slater has the best win-loss record. Apparently, that ginger paedo is the best fighter out of the NXT guys. I'm stunned and appalled.

The Figure Four Weekly Newsletter is reporting that several stars backstage in WWE were said to be very pleased with last week's TNA Impact broadcast and are pulling for TNA as they feel competition is good for the business. Additionally, it's being said that some backstage WWE talents are becoming bored with WWE's product and are glad to see another product out there.

Source:PWMania.com

Nothing to say about the content of this, but I find it amusing that you are reporting that PWMania.com are reporting that the F4W Newsletter is reporting that WWE guys like TNA. I half expect the post to have 'purple-monkey-dishwasher' at the end. :)

[brashleyholland]

several stars backstage in WWE were said to be very pleased with last week's TNA Impact broadcast and are pulling for TNA as they feel competition is good for the business.



Read: They think they'll be able to hold out for more money if there is another option. Good for 'the business'? What they mean is good for their wallets.

Additionally, it's being said that some backstage WWE talents are becoming bored with WWE's product and are glad to see another product out there.

Read: They think they'll be able to hold out for more money if there is another option.

[CQI13]

Not that there's anything wrong with that really. It's up to either company to pay them what they're asking for. Can't fault them for asking.

[brashleyholland]

Not that there's anything wrong with that really. It's up to either company to pay them what they're asking for. Can't fault them for asking.

Oh for sure, can't blame anyone for trying to make some scratch. I just find it funny when these guys say 'good for the business' when what they mean is "we can make more money".

[TheOmniWarrior]

Anyone else get the feeling that HBK is gonna win a wrestlemania with a roll up or lowblow or feet on the ropes or something like that?

[Marshall]

Anyone else get the feeling that HBK is gonna win a wrestlemania with a roll up or lowblow or feet on the ropes or something like that?

As much as I don't want to see the streak end, I can see HBK winning this year and coming back for the rubber match at Wrestlemania 27. As much as Taker deserves his legacy of being undefeated at WM, imagine how amazing the build will be for WM27 if it's HBK vs Taker all or nothing? so excited for Mania right now :)

[Tha Black Phenom]

Is it not.. all or nothing already at this point? I don't know what more above a career and an undefeated streak(which by that point wouldn't be undefeated) they could put on the line... unless Taker's career but that wouldn't really seem marginally more impactful than Career vs. Streak.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Drew McIntyre tries to get undertaker to watch his back by having VKM erase Takers loss at WM xD

[Marshall]

Is it not.. all or nothing already at this point? I don't know what more above a career and an undefeated streak(which by that point wouldn't be undefeated) they could put on the line... unless Taker's career but that wouldn't really seem marginally more impactful than Career vs. Streak.

True - but only for michaels atm. if hbk wins this year, and they have the rubber match next year, put both career's on the line next year and have a definitive end to an epic feud spanning three Mania's. i expect taker to keep his undefeated streak this year though - it's such a unique part of his legacy that he deserves to keep it. can't help but wonder though about this year :p

[brashleyholland]

True - but only for michaels atm. if hbk wins this year, and they have the rubber match next year, put both career's on the line next year and have a definitive end to an epic feud spanning three Mania's. i expect taker to keep his undefeated streak this year though - it's such a unique part of his legacy that he deserves to keep it. can't help but wonder though about this year :p

The only way I want to see Taker lose at Wrestlemania is A) If it's his last ever match and B) if it is putting over a member of the next generation of WWE superstars.

I know that wins and loses don't mean anything in wresting, but *that* win, ending Taker's WM streak would be huge; I'd argue that it'd do more for someone than any title belt at the moment. HBK stands to gain nothing from beating Taker, as he's winding down himself.

What I'd like to see is Taker working a very light schedule in the next 12 months. Hopefully by next years Mainia, they'll have someone in a position whereby they can end the streak and become a megastar.

Question...is there anyone else of note with a Mainia streak? Even if it's just a couple of years?

[TheOmniWarrior]

Primo lol 1-0

[Slagaholic]

The only way I want to see Taker lose at Wrestlemania is A) If it's his last ever match and B) if it is putting over a member of the next generation of WWE superstars.

I know that wins and loses don't mean anything in wresting, but *that* win, ending Taker's WM streak would be huge; I'd argue that it'd do more for someone than any title belt at the moment. HBK stands to gain nothing from beating Taker, as he's winding down himself.

What I'd like to see is Taker working a very light schedule in the next 12 months. Hopefully by next years Mainia, they'll have someone in a position whereby they can end the streak and become a megastar.

Question...is there anyone else of note with a Mainia streak? Even if it's just a couple of years?

This post just gave me visions of Sheamus standing over the fallen Undertaker at WrestleMania XXVII while confetti falls.

And dear God it doesn't sound like a bad idea...

[Self]

The only way I want to see Taker lose at Wrestlemania is A) If it's his last ever match and B) if it is putting over a member of the next generation of WWE superstars.

I agree entirely. I didn't think Shawn Michaels should have been the guy to retire Ric Flair (although in retrospect it didn't matter) and I don't think Shawn Michaels should be the guy to beat The Undertaker at Wrestlemania. Personally, judging by his recent performance, I'd give the victory to The Miz. Maybe CM Punk, although he doesn't need the win as much. Depending on how they develop over the next 9 months, Sheamus, McIntyre, MVP, Christian, John Morrison... Options. It would be a MASSIVE deal for any of those guys. For Shawn Michaels, not so much.

[randomfreeze]

I don't read wrestling rumor sites so I don't know if this is oldish news or not..totally could be. But I stumbled across this so I thought I'd post just in case.

The oldest pro wrestling trope in the book, nailing an opponent with a folding chair, could be no more in the WWE. Why? Politics, as usual.

Maybe wrestling's not a sport, but that doesn't less the risk of injury for the performers. And the rising tide of concussion awareness has lifted even the WWE's boat. In 2008 they adopted a concussion management program, which includes this:

"The WWE penalizes through fine and/or suspension the following:
– The intentional use of a folding metal chair to "strike" an opponent in the head."

That's obviously laughable, since it pretends to punish wrestlers as if they grab ringside chairs of their own accord, rather than as part of a script. But no one made a big deal, until Linda McMahon's Senate run.

Rob Simmons, vying for the GOP nomination with McMahon, called her out, asking if she would be testifying at state hearings on a bill to prevent concussions among student athletes. Her wrestling organization, he said, is setting a poor example. It was a bit of showmanship on his part, but an effective one: the WWE changed its policy regarding chairshots.

"In January 2010, WWE amended its Talent Wellness Program, specifically regarding the ImPACT™ Concussion Management Program originally instituted in 2008, eliminating the use of folding chairs or props to "strike" an opponent in the head,'' [spokesman Robert] Zimmerman said in an email."

Thankfully, the new regulations do not cover 2x4s, coconuts, shillelaghs, trash cans, ladders, mannequin heads, or Singapore canes.

http://deadspin.com/5495992/wwe-bans-chairshots-for-mcmahons-senate-run

[Daffanka]

Does that mean you can still do protected chairshots (IE raised hands) or is it banned all altogether?

I'd be fine with either since anything reducing the risk of wrestling is a good thing and chairshots to the head are just used as crutches in 99% of matches where proper buildup and psychology could accomplish the exact same thing. Kinda like blading.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Question...is there anyone else of note with a Mainia streak? Even if it's just a couple of years?

I guess.. RVD, if anyone. Everyone else just comes with 1-0 victories. Khali, Kennedy, Dreamer, etc.

IIRC, Van Dam is 4-0.

[UkWrestleFan]

Maybe it'll be Daniel Bryan :D

Have him and The Miz feud on and off right up until 'Mania 27. Miz gets a good push throughout this year and becomes a credible threat to the main-event scene. He says he wants to end 'Taker's streak, but, somebody has other ideas...Daniel Bryan. This re-ignites their epic feud and the winner gets to face 'Taker.

[shawn michaels 82]

The funny thing about the streak is that Calaway doesn't get bothered at all with ending it and doesn't mind "jobing the streak" to someone. It's vince that dosen't want to end it. Personally i'd rather see Taker retiring undefeated, but as the wrestling world works the way it does (capitalizing on profitable, hot and over things, such as the streak) it would make perfect sense that a young, deserving worker making his way up the business could get to end it. I wouldn't mind seeing that. hell, i also wouldn't mind seeing shawn ending it (for obvious reasons) but that would be pointless. Shawn has nothing to gain with that, the WWE has nothing to gain with that...so as much as i would not mind seeing it (beeing a HBK fan) i'm also man enough to know it would be a waste of time. The only situation that in wich i see the WWE capitalising on shawn ending the streak is if it was both men's final match, so well built, turning to an epic where anything could happen and it wouldn't mind who got the victory...it would be all about an unforgetable performance. But as none of them is due to retire after WM (as far as i know of) they should just give the win to taker and end the feud. Michaels vs Taker 3 Wrestleanias on a row? I think that WWE would be pushing their luck if they tried to pull that one off.

[Daffanka]

The funny thing about the streak is that Calaway doesn't get bothered at all with ending it and doesn't mind "jobing the streak" to someone. It's vince that dosen't want to end it. Personally i'd rather see Taker retiring undefeated, but as the wrestling world works the way it does (capitalizing on profitable, hot and over things, such as the streak) it would make perfect sense that a young, deserving worker making his way up the business could get to end it. I wouldn't mind seeing that. hell, i also wouldn't mind seeing shawn ending it (for obvious reasons) but that would be pointless. Shawn has nothing to gain with that, the WWE has nothing to gain with that...so as much as i would not mind seeing it (beeing a HBK fan) i'm also man enough to know it would be a waste of time. The only situation that in wich i see the WWE capitalising on shawn ending the streak is if it was both men's final match, so well built, turning to an epic where anything could happen and it wouldn't mind who got the victory...it would be all about an unforgetable performance. But as none of them is due to retire after WM (as far as i know of) they should just give the win to taker and end the feud. Michaels vs Taker 3 Wrestleanias on a row? I think that WWE would be pushing their luck if they tried to pull that one off.

Shawn's also way too old. When Taker's losing the streak he'll lose it against some Brock Lesnar-esque super prospect.

[The Final Countdown]

Maybe it'll be Daniel Bryan :D

Have him and The Miz feud on and off right up until 'Mania 27. Miz gets a good push throughout this year and becomes a credible threat to the main-event scene. He says he wants to end 'Taker's streak, but, somebody has other ideas...Daniel Bryan. This re-ignites their epic feud and the winner gets to face 'Taker.
I would LOVE that. Never gonna happen, of course, but, Danielson mark that I am, I would probably order Wrestlemania (something I haven't done since WM20 for Benoit's title win) to see that.

[The Shape]

Shawn's also way too old. When Taker's losing the streak he'll lose it against some Brock Lesnar-esque super prospect.

Only issue is they seem hesitant to push people that hard now, heh.

Miz vs. Taker ftw.

[Marshall]

The funny thing about the streak is that Calaway doesn't get bothered at all with ending it and doesn't mind "jobing the streak" to someone. It's vince that dosen't want to end it. Personally i'd rather see Taker retiring undefeated, but as the wrestling world works the way it does (capitalizing on profitable, hot and over things, such as the streak) it would make perfect sense that a young, deserving worker making his way up the business could get to end it. I wouldn't mind seeing that. hell, i also wouldn't mind seeing shawn ending it (for obvious reasons) but that would be pointless. Shawn has nothing to gain with that, the WWE has nothing to gain with that...so as much as i would not mind seeing it (beeing a HBK fan) i'm also man enough to know it would be a waste of time. The only situation that in wich i see the WWE capitalising on shawn ending the streak is if it was both men's final match, so well built, turning to an epic where anything could happen and it wouldn't mind who got the victory...it would be all about an unforgetable performance. But as none of them is due to retire after WM (as far as i know of) they should just give the win to taker and end the feud. Michaels vs Taker 3 Wrestleanias on a row? I think that WWE would be pushing their luck if they tried to pull that one off.


I'll preface this by saying that I agree with the majority of this, and in my opinion, Taker should remain undefeated at Mania. But playing devil's advocate, I could see the appeal of Taker-Michaels III in a rubber match next year at WM27. On last monday's Raw, Taker did say that he thought HBK was the best wrestler ever in what sounded like a particularly genuine statement. In that sense, Taker may drop the streak in order to further the feud. From a business standpoint, if this year's match lives up to the mythic status that last year's has gained already, I can see that a third and final match between the two will have a ton of interest still. Also, when I think of great WM storylines, my mind goes back to the Mega Powers exploding at WM4. Hogan and Savage built that storyline over a year from the previous WM, and it led to an epic culmination. In the wrestling world, you rarely see such patience and careful nurturing of a conflict, and a feud based around a 3 year period combined with figures of such status as Taker and Michaels makes this a once-in-a-lifetime programme. As much as I don't think Taker should lose the streak, part of me would be interested to take this feud to WM27 for the final conclusion.

[MrCanada]

The funny thing about the streak is that Calaway doesn't get bothered at all with ending it and doesn't mind "jobing the streak" to someone. It's vince that dosen't want to end it.

Source?

Last time I talked to Mark he seemed to love his streak.

[Daffanka]

Source?

Last time I talked to Mark he seemed to love his streak.

I imagine he knows enough about the business to know that ending the streak will be an enormous rub for anyone.

The thing is no one in the main event needs it. HBK, HHH, Cena, all those guys are over enough without even a title, never mind ending the streak. I could potentially see The Miz ending it if he continues to improve as he has (and he could probably get some nuclear heat with ending the streak.) Sheamus too.

I don't think anyone's going to pin Undertaker clean at WM though. Ever since Brock left WWE hasn't dared to book anyone as a proper monster heel (even Sheamus attacks from behind) and unless they find another Brock who they know is completely dedicated to wrestling I don't think they will.

It's a shame because I love monster heels.

[jesterx7769]

if The Miz ends Takers streak I will never watch WWE again.

[FlameSnoopy]

I think it'd be kind of neat if Taker wouldn't end his career after one WM loss, but so that he wants to "regain his glory" and loses another one in a row :p

[Daffanka]

if The Miz ends Takers streak I will never watch WWE again.

Why?

[brashleyholland]

The funny thing about the streak is that Calaway doesn't get bothered at all with ending it and doesn't mind "jobing the streak" to someone. It's vince that dosen't want to end it.

Thats a couple of pretty big assumptions though, unless he's publicly said something to that effect.

[brashleyholland]

I'll preface this by saying that I agree with the majority of this, and in my opinion, Taker should remain undefeated at Mania. But playing devil's advocate, I could see the appeal of Taker-Michaels III in a rubber match next year at WM27. On last monday's Raw, Taker did say that he thought HBK was the best wrestler ever in what sounded like a particularly genuine statement. In that sense, Taker may drop the streak in order to further the feud. From a business standpoint, if this year's match lives up to the mythic status that last year's has gained already, I can see that a third and final match between the two will have a ton of interest still. Also, when I think of great WM storylines, my mind goes back to the Mega Powers exploding at WM4. Hogan and Savage built that storyline over a year from the previous WM, and it led to an epic culmination. In the wrestling world, you rarely see such patience and careful nurturing of a conflict, and a feud based around a 3 year period combined with figures of such status as Taker and Michaels makes this a once-in-a-lifetime programme. As much as I don't think Taker should lose the streak, part of me would be interested to take this feud to WM27 for the final conclusion.

As I've said above, I think Taker should remain undefeated at Mania until he calls it quits for good...but to play Devil's Advocate to your Devil's Advocate...

Can the WWE rely on Taker and HBK being physically able to perform a quality match a year from now? I've read that both are winding their schedules down for health reasons; is either man in a possition to say "I can commit to a year long build and perform at the end of it"?

[Marshall]

As I've said above, I think Taker should remain undefeated at Mania until he calls it quits for good...but to play Devil's Advocate to your Devil's Advocate...

Can the WWE rely on Taker and HBK being physically able to perform a quality match a year from now? I've read that both are winding their schedules down for health reasons; is either man in a possition to say "I can commit to a year long build and perform at the end of it"?

That's a fair point, particularly regarding HBK's knees and Taker's hips being well-documented troubles for them at this advanced stage of their careers.

In response i'd say that no-one expected HBK to return from his supposed career-ending back injury and he's still wrestling 8 years later. Taker's tough-as-nails and could grit out a quality performance - after all, he did wrestle inside hell in a cell with mankind with a broken foot.

To take another example from the same breed of competitor, if you asked me whether Kurt Angle would still be wrestling to the standard he is now 4 years ago when he left WWE, i would've said no. i was sure he was going to fall apart within a couple of years, but he's still going very strong to this day. Competitors of Kurt Angle, HBK and Taker's quality and ability will still be able to perform from time to time to world class standard (hopefully in a more limited capacity as their bodies further fall apart).

[shawn michaels 82]

Source?

Last time I talked to Mark he seemed to love his streak.

Really? Lastime i've been face-to-face with him, he clearly told me he wanted it to end!

[Tha Black Phenom]

I don't know about not being bothered with it, but I do recall/heard he offered Orton to end it and Orton respectfully declined.

Either way, booking HBK/Taker three Manias in a row would just be bad form, I mean there is some sort of substance with this one as they've put something huge on the line and it's some sort of do or die scenario, but the third time.. career vs. career isn't that big a step up from this, especially if Shawn manages to come back. When WM27 rolls around, if Shawn and Taker are both still in the business and in perfect shape, there'll be dozens of potential match-ups that would be pitched from all sides for the event, from us and creative alike. Why would Shawn challenge Taker a third time anyway?

I really hoped Cena vs. Taker would take place this year.

[The Final Countdown]

I don't know about not being bothered with it, but I do recall/heard he offered Orton to end it and Orton respectfully declined.

Either way, booking HBK/Taker three Manias in a row would just be bad form, I mean there is some sort of substance with this one as they've put something huge on the line and it's some sort of do or die scenario, but the third time.. career vs. career isn't that big a step up, especially if Shawn manages to come back. Why would Shawn challenge Taker a third time anyway?

I really hoped Cena vs. Taker would take place this year.
Well, if they wrestled again at Mania next year, the logical way to go would be having Taker issue the challenge this time around, to try and avenge his one and only loss at Mania.

[Daffanka]

Well, if they wrestled again at Mania next year, the logical way to go would be having Taker issue the challenge this time around, to try and avenge his one and only loss at Mania.

HBK isn't going to win. He really doesn't need the rub and a second loss to UT isn't going to hurt his reputation any. I'm sure he'll enjoy his few months off before they decide to bring him back.

I stand by my prediction that a young guy's going to pin him dirty at a WM within a few years. If they pick up some Lesnar-esque super rookie he might pin him clean (probably not.)

[Tha Black Phenom]

Well, if they wrestled again at Mania next year, the logical way to go would be having Taker issue the challenge this time around, to try and avenge his one and only loss at Mania.

That's the thing. The third match-up would be inevitably based on run-of-the-mill feud repercussions. Because realistically, there's no way Shawn would challenge or even accept a rematch from Undertaker. He's done already what he wanted to do and what ate at him for months, so the only way HBK would be drawn in that match is if Taker does something which gives him a reason to, like costing him the belt or something of the sort. And THAT part right there would be bad form.

[The Final Countdown]

HBK isn't going to win. He really doesn't need the rub and a second loss to UT isn't going to hurt his reputation any. I'm sure he'll enjoy his few months off before they decide to bring him back.

I stand by my prediction that a young guy's going to pin him dirty at a WM within a few years. If they pick up some Lesnar-esque super rookie he might pin him clean (probably not.)
I agree. I don't think HBK is going to win, nor do I think we'll see HBK/Taker 3 at Mania next year. I was just saying that the only way I could logically see them doing a third match would be for Michaels to win this one, leaving Taker wanting to make up for that one and only blemish.

[Slagaholic]

If HBK beats the Undertaker, WWE will just be throwing away a bottle of rocket fuel to propel someone into super stardom overnight.

[jjohns44]

i hope the Rey bringing his family(particularly kids) to ringside is just part of the storyline with CM Punk and not something that gets brought up for the rest of his career. I doubt they'll let that drag on for a long time but gosh damn it I've got a created wrestler in TEW whose child accompanies him to give support and interfere in matches by grabbing at opponent legs or using a chair.

[shawn michaels 82]

i hope the Rey bringing his family(particularly kids) to ringside is just part of the storyline with CM Punk and not something that gets brought up for the rest of his career. I doubt they'll let that drag on for a long time but gosh damn it I've got a created wrestler in TEW whose child accompanies him to give support and interfere in matches by grabbing at opponent legs or using a chair.

So...VKM hacked your PC and ripped you off the idea! That bastard! :D

[Tag01]

Yea I don't see them giving up the streak for HBK. If they're smart they'll save it for a young prospect. If they have an ideal monster heel type that would be gold.

[Linsolv]

On one hand, I don't either now that I think about it. On the other hand, I want Shawn to win. :(

[Candyman]

I don't see Undertaker ever losing at Wrestlemania. It's a Catch-22: the guys that have earned it don't need it, and the guys that it would help haven't earned it. It has to be somebody who's been around awhile and is well respected (particularly by Undertaker), and just needs one big win to make him a superstar. A guy like Edge when they fought a couple years ago...if he had actually been undefeated at Wrestlemania like he claimed (he had already lost a MITB match), that could've been an awesome passing of the torch.

There's nobody in the WWE today that fits this. Maybe Sheamus will be there a year from now - especially if he beats Triple H this year, and really gets the crowd to care for him over the next year. The only other possibility...if he ever turned heel, I wouldn't mind seeing John Cena beat Undertaker.

One other thing: if somebody beats Undertaker, it will be a CLEAN win. Even the WWE wouldn't taint something this big with a countout/DQ/interference victory, IMO.

[shawn michaels 82]

The only other possibility...if he ever turned heel, I wouldn't mind seeing John Cena beat Undertaker.

BY God...NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! :D

[TheOmniWarrior]

Matt Stryker... should never call a match again
30-45 seconds in the match McIntyre has taken a throat thrust and undertaker's corner jumping clothesline spot.
Stryker: MCINTYRES TAKEN TO MUCH PUNISHMENT ALREADY

[Slagaholic]

Matt Stryker to me is in the "so bad he's good" category. He's a walking cliche.

[The Shape]

He's better than King.

And I think there's amazing potential if Rey loses to Punk. He almost certainly won't, of course, but a heel's gotta win somewhere (well, Edge might lose) and Rey being forced into the SES would be awesome for a while, keep him relevant.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

He's better than King.

And I think there's amazing potential if Rey loses to Punk. He almost certainly won't, of course, but a heel's gotta win somewhere (well, Edge might lose) and Rey being forced into the SES would be awesome for a while, keep him relevant.

Edge will win. Seen him advertised as taking on Drew McIntyres on the Wrestlemania revenge tour, in Scotland, they may as well have said it was for the title:rolleyes:. I'd be extremely surprised if he lost.

[The Shape]

Yeah cheers for that :rolleyes: lol wonder if drew would get cheered.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Yeah cheers for that :rolleyes: lol wonder if drew would get cheered.

Its pretty obvious by the build up he is going to win anyway. He has the crowd eating out of the palm of is hand. When is the last time a rumble winner lost anyway?

[The Shape]

Last year.

[Tha Black Phenom]

And the year before. :p

Adverts don't mean jack tbh, especially when PPV plans can change at the very last minute. The adverts will often be modified to fit what's going on at the current time. This said, Edge's gaining a lot of momentum so I'd be putting my money on him but at the same time I wouldn't rule out a title defense.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Last year.

Always seems to happen me:p. Anyway when is the last time a face rumble winner lost?

[The Shape]

Always seems to happen me:p. Anyway when is the last time a face rumble winner lost?

And the year before. :p

Adverts don't mean jack tbh, especially when PPV plans can change at the very last minute. The adverts will often be modified to fit what's going on at the current time. This said, Edge's gaining a lot of momentum so I'd be putting my money on him but at the same time I wouldn't rule out a title defense.

xD Cena.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Ok I'll just be quiet for a while:D

[Hyde Hill]

Nobody else a little bothered that Taker squashed both McIntyre and 2/3 of the tag team division in 2 weeks time? I know he is taker and its wrestlemania season but 4 guys not getting a single punch in and your hot prospect intercontinatal champ just getting one move? I think they devaluad those guys more then that it helped Taker.

[Tag01]

You know, this Rey's family thing is lame but MAN I love CM Punk.

[dvdWarrior]

Nobody else a little bothered that Taker squashed both McIntyre and 2/3 of the tag team division in 2 weeks time? I know he is taker and its wrestlemania season but 4 guys not getting a single punch in and your hot prospect intercontinatal champ just getting one move? I think they devaluad those guys more then that it helped Taker.

I'm bothered six ways from Sunday, but I just figured that was business as usual for WWE nowadays. Both of those things, believe it or not, actually lessened my interest in the HBK - Taker rematch, just for the record.

[MattitudeV2]

Nobody else a little bothered that Taker squashed both McIntyre and 2/3 of the tag team division in 2 weeks time? I know he is taker and its wrestlemania season but 4 guys not getting a single punch in and your hot prospect intercontinatal champ just getting one move? I think they devaluad those guys more then that it helped Taker.

I am I feel they're demphasizing Tag Teams and the lengths that they have to be together as Hart Dynasty and Cryme Tyme have been teaming together for years and both get defeated that teamed together once before their match? McIntyre hasn't been doing anything I mean the guy beats a jobber to get in money in the bank for Christ sakes?

[Daffanka]

Nobody else a little bothered that Taker squashed both McIntyre and 2/3 of the tag team division in 2 weeks time? I know he is taker and its wrestlemania season but 4 guys not getting a single punch in and your hot prospect intercontinatal champ just getting one move? I think they devaluad those guys more then that it helped Taker.

McIntyre's push seems to have been a tremendous failure. The crowd don't care about him at all.

And Undertaker squashing the tag division... man, at least it gets them some screen time. This ain't AJPW, tag teams are just a crutch to get guys over or maybe to foreshadow a big singles match. Dedicated tag teams are never going to amount to anything and they're not going to be (too) hurt by it.

[Self]

I love McIntyre's music. That alone is enough to make me sad that his win streak has come to an end.

[Tag01]

Much like with Seamus, I didn't get the Mcintrye mega push at all.

[Hyde Hill]

McIntyre's push seems to have been a tremendous failure. The crowd don't care about him at all.

And Undertaker squashing the tag division... man, at least it gets them some screen time. This ain't AJPW, tag teams are just a crutch to get guys over or maybe to foreshadow a big singles match. Dedicated tag teams are never going to amount to anything and they're not going to be (too) hurt by it.

You mean dedicated tag teams are not going to ever amount to anything in the current wwe. I know the e treats their tag team division like dirt but this was even moreso. Seems they have given up on McIntyre as well then. I know he wasn't really getting over but neither was/is Sheamus and they are still pushing him.

[Prophet]

I love McIntyre's music. That alone is enough to make me sad that his win streak has come to an end.

Especially with that parchment video opening? And the guy is genuinely nice, which just makes it all the better. I dug the idea of him going off after losing to Kane and Hardy is surprise moments. Like the loss of the streak had loosened his grip on reality, maybe making him a more vicious wrestler.

But the loss to `taker doesn't enhance that in any way. Seems to detract it. The others I could live with, `cause they were flukish. This one was just a decimation of a cool character, I thought.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I have to say, I dig McIntyre's music as well.. which surprises me to be honest.

Raw was decent, got me decently pumped for Mania, and again Batista cut a better-than-usual promo. The Taker/Kane switcheroo was a nice touch and seeing Orton get face pops felt quite weird yet cool.

[Hyde Hill]

I skipped the Cena/Batista promo as I didn't want to see those 2 for 20 odd minutes but the rest was flat and boring as hell imho. Didn't make me more excited to see Wrestlemania at all.

[Bigpapa42]

I skipped the Cena/Batista promo as I didn't ant to see those 2 for 20 odd minutes but the rest was flat and boring as hell imho. Didn't make me more excited to see Wrestlemania at all.

Though the HBK promo was really good at the start... up until Pete Rose. The Cena/Batista promo was quite good as well. I'm not a fan of Batista, but he works so much better as a heel and he's been cutting of the best promos I've ever seen from him in this feud.

[Wrestling Century]

I'm sort of excited for this year's WM. I doubt that it will be a classic, but I personally think that it will be better than last year's WM.

[jjohns44]

what happened to Piper vs. McMahon did it just become Bret Hart vs. McMahon? They decide to hold the match off and reserve it for McMahon's annual 'Mania involvement next year?

[Zeel1]

what happened to Piper vs. McMahon did it just become Bret Hart vs. McMahon? They decide to hold the match off and reserve it for McMahon's annual 'Mania involvement next year?

I..don't think it was ever going to be Piper/McMahon. What gave you that idea?

Piper challenged him once months ago, but it was turned down, and they haven't mentioned it since, nor has Piper appeared since.

[Tag01]

Aaaaaand, I'm done with NXT. Crappy tag match. 45 minutes Wrestlemania commericals. Crappy tag match. End.

I'm just not into it. If this was in a new time slot I wouldn't really care, but I loved ECW and how much in ring action we got every week. The opening match had a ton of missed spots and was hard to watch. The main event was a little better, but I was so sick of watching Raw recaps I was pretty disinterested. I like Danielson as much as the next guy, but I could take or leave the rest of them and the show format still just seems very forced and akward.

[Self]

Just finished watching NXT, and it's still my favorite wrestling show right now. Flawed, but it's a bunch of new guys I haven't seen much of, and I dig that. Having not watched RAW, I enjoyed all of the Wrestlemania video packages. Tag matches weren't good, babyface-heel divide was skewed, but everybody got time in the ring, and a chance to experiment in front of the fans. The right teams won.

My roommate actually likes this show. He openly mocks wrestling. He refuses to have any part of Raw, Smackdown or TNA, and if I even think about putting a PPV on his 50' TV he'll go banana... but he has no problem with 42 minutes of NXT a week. The most amusing thing is, like any male standing next to the open hood of a car, he suddenly becomes an expert on how everything works. What's good. What's bad. How David Otunga needs 'more snap' on his crossface punches. Makes for an interesting TV experience for me.

[Remianen]

You mean dedicated tag teams are not going to ever amount to anything in the current wwe. I know the e treats their tag team division like dirt but this was even moreso. Seems they have given up on McIntyre as well then. I know he wasn't really getting over but neither was/is Sheamus and they are still pushing him.

Apples and steel belted tires. The only similarity is they're both composed of carbon.

Sheamus was built up as a monster, ending a guy's career. He beat the face of the promotion and is locked in to a match with 'The Franchise' at Wrestlemania. McIntyre was all hot air, built almost totally on Vince's words. He didn't beat the face of the promotion (or even the face of Smackdown), he hasn't gotten over enough to even sniff the main event. Thus, he gets to do what midcarders generally do: lay down for the big dogs who earn the money to keep the lights on. I wouldn't be surprised if they went with the last ditch measure of having him win MITB, only to have it taken from him (ala Kennedy), by hook or by crook, by Jericho or somebody.

I think McIntyre's best chance at salvaging his push is a John Morrison-esque repackaging. But that would be hard because the 'E already has someone like that. Guy's name is....wait, I know this one...oh yeah, John Morrison.

But I don't think the dearth of full time tag teams is necessarily the 'E's fault. Let's face it, there's a lot more money to be made as a singles worker than as even a successful tag team. You won't see the permanent fixture tag teams anymore because most of the time, one worker is a lot more attractive for singles action than the other. Rarely will you see a pair that's better together than they are apart (the Dudleys/Team3D come to mind as does the NAO). Cryme Tyme's the closest to them that I can see right now. Neither of them is going to really get over without the other. The Harts don't fit (David is a perfect fit for the 'E's preferred worker). Plus, tag teams need more tag teams to flourish. Chicken or egg proposition, that.

[Self]

But I don't think the dearth of full time tag teams is necessarily the 'E's fault. Let's face it, there's a lot more money to be made as a singles worker than as even a successful tag team. You won't see the permanent fixture tag teams anymore because most of the time, one worker is a lot more attractive for singles action than the other. Rarely will you see a pair that's better together than they are apart (the Dudleys/Team3D come to mind as does the NAO). Cryme Tyme's the closest to them that I can see right now. Neither of them is going to really get over without the other. The Harts don't fit (David is a perfect fit for the 'E's preferred worker). Plus, tag teams need more tag teams to flourish. Chicken or egg proposition, that.

I'm going slightly off-topic, but...

From where I'm sitting, the lack of 'money' in tag teams is a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't draw because they aren't pushed above midcard status. The aren't pushed above midcard "because they don't draw". I may be missing something, but I don't see why the tag belts can't be Main Event belts for main event guys, other than this pre-conceived notion that being a solo competitor is 'better'. If I were running the shop (or if I could be bothered to download a Real World mod for TEW) the WWE Tag Titles would be main event straps. DX vs The Brothers of Destruction. Show-Miz vs Edge & Christian. Main event level feuds with main event level guys that can main event PPV's just as ably as the singles straps.

Personally, this me-me-me, every-man-for-himself mentality of being a singles competitor and going after solo glory sounds selfish. However, teaming up with someone, developing a trust and a friendship, working together towards a common goal... That sounds noble. Glorious. Frankly, those are qualities I'd expect a PG-company like WWE to be promoting to their young audience. The importance of friendship over personal ambition. The need to cultivate relationships over a personal need to 'be the best'.

I dunno. Maybe it's an American Superhero/Quarterback thing I just don't get, or maybe it's because I'm a twin and thus naturally see myself as part of a pair. I simply love tag team wrestling, and see no reason why it can't be Main Event level stuff... and if you push it to the forefront, the teams below have purpose, and can be cultivated upwards, instead of lingering in the midcard waiting to break up.

P.S. No Jericho on NXT makes me sad.

[crownsy]

NXT this week was a complete waste for me, as all it consisted of was video packages mixed in between two bland tag matches.

only things i took out of it were

- could have done a better job with the ending of the main event. i got the message that bryan lost because his partner was out of position, continuing the "good worker being screwed by circumstance" story, but it was so drawn out it looked awkward. for that to work you need the "look for the tag into a flash finish" moment, not try to tag, then turn around, fight for 2 more minutes and get canned.

- SES was great again, love the disinterest by punk mixed with the "ah what the hell, lets help him" thing they have going on.

- Jennifer hudson's husband can't wrestle, but defiantly has the most "star quality" out of the group of new guys. His finisher is lame though, also kovlov does it much better.

[djthefunkchris]

I'm going slightly off-topic, but...

From where I'm sitting, the lack of 'money' in tag teams is a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't draw because they aren't pushed above midcard status. The aren't pushed above midcard "because they don't draw". I may be missing something, but I don't see why the tag belts can't be Main Event belts for main event guys, other than this pre-conceived notion that being a solo competitor is 'better'. If I were running the shop (or if I could be bothered to download a Real World mod for TEW) the WWE Tag Titles would be main event straps. DX vs The Brothers of Destruction. Show-Miz vs Edge & Christian. Main event level feuds with main event level guys that can main event PPV's just as ably as the singles straps.

Personally, this me-me-me, every-man-for-himself mentality of being a singles competitor and going after solo glory sounds selfish. However, teaming up with someone, developing a trust and a friendship, working together towards a common goal... That sounds noble. Glorious. Frankly, those are qualities I'd expect a PG-company like WWE to be promoting to their young audience. The importance of friendship over personal ambition. The need to cultivate relationships over a personal need to 'be the best'.

I dunno. Maybe it's an American Superhero/Quarterback thing I just don't get, or maybe it's because I'm a twin and thus naturally see myself as part of a pair. I simply love tag team wrestling, and see no reason why it can't be Main Event level stuff... and if you push it to the forefront, the teams below have purpose, and can be cultivated upwards, instead of lingering in the midcard waiting to break up.

P.S. No Jericho on NXT makes me sad.

I think Remi has it down pretty good though, to be honest. Alot of the tag teams in the WWE are younger guys, that might have potential, but just aren't all that without the back-up of the tag partner (right now). Cryme time as an example actually made me understand his point more. I don't see either one of them at this point, being able to solo and have the crowd excited for them as they do as a tag team.

When they put together tag teams like Jericho/Big Show, bring back DX as a tag team, etc. These are the standard "Super Teams" we have seen WWE use over the years, countless times. Even Batista/Mysterio could be seen in the same light in my point of view. Ussually these are to get the lower tag teams noticed more, and to me anyways, see if anyone stands out. Sometimes they are formed to just get them on the card for the next PPV, and perhaps you have two superteams going against each other (DX vs. Jerishow).

I don't really recall the tag belts in the WWE/WWF ever being Main Event titles on the norm, except way, WAY back. Hogan/Savage brought it up, only for it to go back down after their split. It helps build the title up for a bit, and this must happen to keep it from going into the "enhanced talent" area.

[Self]

Sure, that's what tag teams are. I'm just pondering what tag teams could be.

[crownsy]

Sure, that's what tag teams are. I'm just pondering what tag teams could be.

I just don't think tag teams are as compeling as singles guys, long term.

Unless you are an absolutely phenomenal tag team, i really struggle to care about them long term. Having two guys who have to be in every story/ stay the same alignment to keep a team together long term limits your storytelling alot.

Plus, as remy alluded to, such a long term team would need to have two guys who were exactly balanced pop wise with the crowd. otherwise you get a rockers/hardy/Miz & morrision (to name three easy ones) situation where the crowd wants to see one team member far more than the other.

[The Final Countdown]

Plus, as remy alluded to, such a long term team would need to have two guys who were exactly balanced pop wise with the crowd. otherwise you get a rockers/hardy/Miz & morrision (to name three easy ones) situation where the crowd wants to see one team member far more than the other.
Is that really what happened with the Rockers, though? I don't remember Shawn being appreciably more over than Marty at the time of the split. I'm with you on the Hardys and Miz & Morrison, but I don't think the Rockers fit your example, at least as far as I can remember.

[crownsy]

Is that really what happened with the Rockers, though? I don't remember Shawn being appreciably more over than Marty at the time of the split. I'm with you on the Hardys and Miz & Morrison, but I don't think the Rockers fit your example, at least as far as I can remember.

I'll defer to your judgment, is was fairly young at the time, so i don't have as clear a recollection of them as the other two example teams.

I will say though, the miz has been phenomenal since that split. When they went to different shows, I immediately thought "well, miz had a good run, he's a career midcarder at best without morrision"

but his work this year has been excellent, and this may prove to be one of those rare times when BOTH young tag members go on to decent careers.

[Self]

I just don't think tag teams are as compeling as singles guys, long term.

Unless you are an absolutely phenomenal tag team, i really struggle to care about them long term.

Personal opinion, I can respect that. Different strokes.

Having two guys who have to be in every story/ stay the same alignment to keep a team together long term limits your storytelling alot.

I wouldn't say 'a lot', but maybe a little. I look at TV shows like Bones and Psych and White Collar and Supernatural, which are as much about the relationship between the core characters as it is about the crime solving and demon killing, and I see plenty of storyline potential, yet unexplored in tag team wrestling. Buddy-cop movies have been popular for years, as popular as one-man-against-the-world flicks (which is better; Die Hard or Lethal Weapon?). In the past, yes, storytelling between tag teams has been less expansive or sophisticated as it's singles counterparts, but just because that's how it is, doesn't mean that's how it always must be.

I like wrestling for what it is. I love wrestling for what it can be.

Plus, as remy alluded to, such a long term team would need to have two guys who were exactly balanced pop wise with the crowd. otherwise you get a rockers/hardy/Miz & morrision (to name three easy ones) situation where the crowd wants to see one team member far more than the other.

I disagree, mainly because I don't think it matters if the crowd like one more than the other, unless taken to extremes. Jeff was always more popular than Matt, but they still had an awesome run and could now headline together at any time. Hell, I'd encourage unbalanced partnerships. If you put John Cena and Kofi Kingston together as a regular tag team and booked them strongly and gave them promo time, it would elevate the latter more than it would hurt the former... as long as being in a team wasn't portrayed as a 'step down' for Cena. Still, no harm in breaking up, as long as it isn't treated as a prerequisite to becoming a 'real star'.

The only two downsides I can see are the effort involved in changing fan's perception that tag teams are inferior, and money. It costs more to pay 2 guys than it does to pay 1. I can see a top tag team selling the same amount of merchandise as a top singles star, but I can't see them selling double. So the bottom line could pull the rug out from under my grandiose schemes.

[The Final Countdown]

I'll defer to your judgment, is was fairly young at the time, so i don't have as clear a recollection of them as the other two example teams.

I will say though, the miz has been phenomenal since that split. When they went to different shows, I immediately thought "well, miz had a good run, he's a career midcarder at best without morrision"

but his work this year has been excellent, and this may prove to be one of those rare times when BOTH young tag members go on to decent careers.
I was pretty young as well, so there may be others who have a better grasp of the situation. But, as far as I can remember, I don't think Shawn was significantly more over than Marty at the time.

I'm with you on The Miz. I figured he'd fall by the wayside after he and Morrison split, but I'd say he's done at least as well for himself as Morrison. His developing feud with Bryan Da...err, Daniel Bryan may be the most interesting thing going on right now IMO, beyond HBK/Taker. I could see Miz developing into a legit main event heel within a year or two, which isn't something I ever thought I'd say.

[Remianen]

The only two downsides I can see are the effort involved in changing fan's perception that tag teams are inferior, and money. It costs more to pay 2 guys than it does to pay 1. I can see a top tag team selling the same amount of merchandise as a top singles star, but I can't see them selling double. So the bottom line could pull the rug out from under my grandiose schemes.

Also consider the personal aspect.

Team3D splits the proceeds of their merch. Why do that if you don't have to? Sure, it's nice to be idealistic and think 'all for one' and such but really, how far do you think Shawn Michaels gets with a Jannetty around his neck? Speaking of which, Final Countdown, the Rockers didn't split because one was appreciably more popular than the other (at the time). They split because one had 'STAR' practically tattooed on his forehead and the other, well, didn't. They were almost exact precursors to the Hardyz. One was practically dripping with charisma and the other....was good in the ring.

While I agree with you Self, I also know that humans are strange creatures. Batista was one half of a pretty good tag team (Disciples of Synn? With the heavyset goth chick as manager) when he was known as Leviathan. He didn't do too much lobbying to bring his partner along when they put him with D-Von though. Because you're right, a tag team isn't going to sell double the merch so both members have to settle for half they would as singles workers. Teams are marketed as a unit, after all. Also, your main event tag team idea requires bodies. Main eventers beating midcarders week in and week out, gets really boring. There's only so many times you can pull the 'underdog gets the unlikely win' thing before it gets...what's that word people here use for WWE? Stale.

As I said, I agree in principle with what you said. But the facts are the facts. Tag teams don't produce dividends enough (or fast enough) to justify the investment in them. One tag team program would typically involve four workers. Those four workers, as singles, would produce two marketable programs. So the one program has a steep hill to climb (or row to hoe) from the very beginning. Yes, it is about money, on both sides of the equation (promotion and worker).

[shawn michaels 82]

Also consider the personal aspect.

Team3D splits the proceeds of their merch. Why do that if you don't have to? Sure, it's nice to be idealistic and think 'all for one' and such but really, how far do you think Shawn Michaels gets with a Jannetty around his neck? Speaking of which, Final Countdown, the Rockers didn't split because one was appreciably more popular than the other (at the time). They split because one had 'STAR' practically tattooed on his forehead and the other, well, didn't. They were almost exact precursors to the Hardyz. One was practically dripping with charisma and the other....was good in the ring.

While I agree with you Self, I also know that humans are strange creatures. Batista was one half of a pretty good tag team (Disciples of Synn? With the heavyset goth chick as manager) when he was known as Leviathan. He didn't do too much lobbying to bring his partner along when they put him with D-Von though. Because you're right, a tag team isn't going to sell double the merch so both members have to settle for half they would as singles workers. Teams are marketed as a unit, after all. Also, your main event tag team idea requires bodies. Main eventers beating midcarders week in and week out, gets really boring. There's only so many times you can pull the 'underdog gets the unlikely win' thing before it gets...what's that word people here use for WWE? Stale.

As I said, I agree in principle with what you said. But the facts are the facts. Tag teams don't produce dividends enough (or fast enough) to justify the investment in them. One tag team program would typically involve four workers. Those four workers, as singles, would produce two marketable programs. So the one program has a steep hill to climb (or row to hoe) from the very beginning. Yes, it is about money, on both sides of the equation (promotion and worker).

There isn't much to add on this one as remianen said it perfectly. It is about the money, and that makes it impossible to have main event tag teams parading around every week. However, it sin't that hard to see some proper tag division maed of midcards. However, nothing stops them from building a strong midcard tag division headlined by a couple of ME teams. (WIch would rotate in a periodic bases to allow all ME to have their singles action) Nothing stops them...or nothing should...

[Hyde Hill]

There isn't much to add on this one as remianen said it perfectly. It is about the money, and that makes it impossible to have main event tag teams parading around every week. However, it sin't that hard to see some proper tag division maed of midcards. However, nothing stops them from building a strong midcard tag division headlined by a couple of ME teams. (WIch would rotate in a periodic bases to allow all ME to have their singles action) Nothing stops them...or nothing should...

To further elaborate on this from a wrestlers standpoint and from a short term promotions standpoint it is better to be singles. But real tag team action be it on a midcard/uppermidcard level is a draw in and of itself.

There is nothing wrong with eventually splitting up a tag team if one is more marketable (Rockers) or both are more marketable as individuals then together E & C but at least give them enough time as a team and have a team that can fill their spot so to speak.

A strong tag team scene can help elevate those workers till they are read for the big time and a strong tag team scene in and of itself is a draw. If you look at all the highest points of the E and the hight of WCW they all featured a strong tag team scene and it helped draw in fans. More fans means more money for everybody. So from a promoters standpoint and a wrestlers as well thinking more long term a strong tag team scene is very beneficial.

So long as you highlight the scene enough time wise and throw in an occasional Main Event combo then both for performers and promoters it can make more money long term.

For a long time now tag teams have been either undercard workers or a Man Event combo with nothing in between. The last tag team that actually got time to be a team and get time on tv has been Miz and Morrisson and it did wonders for the both of them. Now imagine if they where together a bit longer and had had some actual competition.

Didn't want to go on too long a rant so I hope I made myself clear.

[PeterHilton]

Love this conversation...

Just wanted to throw in that, from a cost standpoint, a company is paying two guys to get the same revenue that a really over singles wrestler can give them.

Take the Road Warriors for instance: legendary team, proven draw, headlined shows for JCP, AWA, promotions in Japan...but did they draw twice as much as someone like Flair? or Dusty Rhodes?

Because they made around as much and you had to pay BOTH Hawk and Animal.

From a cost effectiveness stadnpoint, focusing on midcard names and using the tag division to develop younger guys makes more sense (similar reasoning is why manager aren;t around as much).

It sucks because we'll probably never see a really great tag divsion again in the WWE. But that money is a big driver.

[jesterx7769]

I think things like MITB and EC have hurt the chances of a tag division as well. Before WWE used to do a lot of three way tags but with those new matches they just plug in more singles workers instead and instead of actual tag teams have been teaming regular workers together for the tag titles

[b0shey]

Former World Heavyweight Champion Bill Goldberg announced on his Twitter account this evening that he's negotiating with WWE regarding a possible return to the company.

"YES.. I am in negotiations with the WWE," Goldberg wrote. "Looks like 'ole Hogan and TNA missed the boat. Shame for the fans they didn't even try."

While Goldberg has been critical of WWE since his departure from the organization in 2004 and repeatedly said he had no interest in returning to wrestle, he acknowledged a change in heart.

Return of Big Bill

[ampulator]

I think people misdiagnose the real reason why they split the Rockers: according to both Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty, they were getting into fights with each other all the time backstage. They were barely keeping together.

Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty were two very different people. Shawn Michaels was a jerk at the time, but he remained more focused and determined than Marty Jannetty. He did his share of party (a lot) but he didn't keep from keeping himself together. Michaels, probably rightfully, felt that Jannetty's lifestyle was going to get him into trouble.

Marty Jannetty wasn't a jerk, but he had... drug and alcohol issues. And his look was very outdated, even for the 80's. They tried to push him, but his personal issues just got him in trouble.

It makes Jannetty sound like the villain... but he isn't. If he could have kept his stuff together, he wouldn't be let go. It's really sad what happened to Marty Jannetty, because he was actually the better of the two in the beginning in terms of ring skills. I still remember his match against Chris Benoit in WCW and his match against Kurt Angle in WWE. He was really good.

[tristram]

I made the comment in the TNA thread that I thought there was alternate ways for WCW to end the streak and layer his character to add longevity beyond his streak. But, I feel once they didn't do that, Goldberg's character was kind of a fizzer.

I suppose at 43 he could still do his routine, but much like I said in TNA, despite being a mad fan of Goldberg's, I saw little place for him in TNA, much as I don't really see a big role for him in WWE. I would though place a lot more money on WWE getting it right, even if it is a second attempt at it, then TNA.

[Slagaholic]

It sounds like it's not going to involve in-ring action, but more using the Goldberg brand and his likeness.

[tristram]

Oh, well that's quite logical then.

[Stennick]

If its just using his likeness then why is he bothering to take a shot at TNA? I mean its not like Goldberg was ever in TNA so what good would it do them to sell Goldberg shirts. They can't make any DVD's and any goldberg shirts of figurines would just confuse the fans and likely make very little cash in return for his asking price.

I had heard its a likeness deal as well which makes sense since the WWE can sign him to a legends contract and get figurines, DVD's, shirts maybe another book who knows. If anything just use him to replace some of the talking heads they usually have for DVD's since Flair, Hogan and some others can't be used.

Anyway kinda pointless to take a jab at TNA for not signing you when you've stated your not interested in TNA and they would have zero to gain by paying you for your likeness.

[Self]

NXT's rating's down again to a 0.9. Not sure if it actually beat Impact, or if that number's rounded up, but it's still a bummer. Hopefully this decline in ratings doesn't spell the end for my favourite wrestling show. The idea's great, but the execution over the past couple of weeks has faltered I feel. They've taken away the majority of the pro's too soon, and the vagueness of the competition make it hard for folks to get emotionally invested. Hopefully next week's voting will help sort it out a bit.

[ColtCabana]

If its just using his likeness then why is he bothering to take a shot at TNA? I mean its not like Goldberg was ever in TNA so what good would it do them to sell Goldberg shirts. They can't make any DVD's and any goldberg shirts of figurines would just confuse the fans and likely make very little cash in return for his asking price.

I had heard its a likeness deal as well which makes sense since the WWE can sign him to a legends contract and get figurines, DVD's, shirts maybe another book who knows. If anything just use him to replace some of the talking heads they usually have for DVD's since Flair, Hogan and some others can't be used.

Anyway kinda pointless to take a jab at TNA for not signing you when you've stated your not interested in TNA and they would have zero to gain by paying you for your likeness.

Maybe he did actually want an in ring pay day from TNA and was turned down for cost reasons. I think Goldberg will make an in ring return possibly against Vince or Trips at Summerslam as well as being a GM for a night.

[Candyman]

NXT's rating's down again to a 0.9. Not sure if it actually beat Impact, or if that number's rounded up, but it's still a bummer. Hopefully this decline in ratings doesn't spell the end for my favourite wrestling show. The idea's great, but the execution over the past couple of weeks has faltered I feel. They've taken away the majority of the pro's too soon, and the vagueness of the competition make it hard for folks to get emotionally invested. Hopefully next week's voting will help sort it out a bit.

I definitely agree they took away the pros too soon. I don't want to see a match (singles or tag) that involves all rookies. Ever, let alone three weeks in. I mean, the ending to the tag team match this week was botched so bad I don't even know what was SUPPOSED to happen. You're also right about the vagueness...how do they expect people to get into a competition when they don't even know the rules? What are they even voting on next week? Who leaves? Who goes to Raw/Smackdown!? Who gets to sleep with Tiffani? Are they just going to rank them? How long is this competition going to last? Do you win it just by votes or will there be matches at some point? What does the winner get? What about the rest of the wrestlers? We should know all of these answers already. I love the concept, but the execution...leaves a lot to be desired.

[foolinc]

I definitely agree they took away the pros too soon. I don't want to see a match (singles or tag) that involves all rookies. Ever, let alone three weeks in. I mean, the ending to the tag team match this week was botched so bad I don't even know what was SUPPOSED to happen. You're also right about the vagueness...how do they expect people to get into a competition when they don't even know the rules? What are they even voting on next week? Who leaves? Who goes to Raw/Smackdown!? Who gets to sleep with Tiffani? Are they just going to rank them? How long is this competition going to last? Do you win it just by votes or will there be matches at some point? What does the winner get? What about the rest of the wrestlers? We should know all of these answers already. I love the concept, but the execution...leaves a lot to be desired.

The biggest reason for that show's lack of quality came from the fact it was a Super Show and that they needed the promo time for Wrestlemania hype. Hopefully next week's show will be much better.

[Remianen]

The biggest reason for that show's lack of quality came from the fact it was a Super Show and that they needed the promo time for Wrestlemania hype. Hopefully next week's show will be much better.

I'd say give it two weeks. It wouldn't surprise me if they turn next week's episode into an 'Aftermath of Wrestlemania' type deal.

[crownsy]

NXT's rating's down again to a 0.9. Not sure if it actually beat Impact, or if that number's rounded up, but it's still a bummer. Hopefully this decline in ratings doesn't spell the end for my favourite wrestling show. The idea's great, but the execution over the past couple of weeks has faltered I feel. They've taken away the majority of the pro's too soon, and the vagueness of the competition make it hard for folks to get emotionally invested. Hopefully next week's voting will help sort it out a bit.

I think a big problem for NXT this week was that it was a glorified video package for WM.

To be expected, it is the C show after all, but i found it hard to watch and i'm a fan of the concept.

Throw in that it's in an absolutely atrocious timeslot (lots of good drama TV shows on at 10 on a Tuesday...Justified being an absolute killer one for me) and it's tough to expect people to watch a tag opener and closer with 35 minutes of WM promo's in between.

[shawn michaels 82]

Love this conversation...

Just wanted to throw in that, from a cost standpoint, a company is paying two guys to get the same revenue that a really over singles wrestler can give them.

Take the Road Warriors for instance: legendary team, proven draw, headlined shows for JCP, AWA, promotions in Japan...but did they draw twice as much as someone like Flair? or Dusty Rhodes?

Because they made around as much and you had to pay BOTH Hawk and Animal.
From a cost effectiveness stadnpoint, focusing on midcard names and using the tag division to develop younger guys makes more sense (similar reasoning is why manager aren;t around as much).

It sucks because we'll probably never see a really great tag divsion again in the WWE. But that money is a big driver.


Still, what they would pay both would never probably be the same as they would pay Flair or Rhodes. So there would still be some profit. Even if a Tag get's really over, they never get a ME push while together (at least not nowadays) wich means that what they get paid (combined) will never be the same as ME.

[justtxyank]

I hope he comes back to wrestle. Why bother making a lot of noise about using his likeness? Goldberg needs to wrestle. I admit to being a mark for Goldberg so this is what I want to see. I want a Goldberg/Undertaker feud.

[PeterHilton]

Still, what they would pay both would never probably be the same as they would pay Flair or Rhodes. So there would still be some profit. Even if a Tag get's really over, they never get a ME push while together (at least not nowadays) wich means that what they get paid (combined) will never be the same as ME.

Ummmm..the interviews I've seen about that time period would say that yes, their combined checks would've been more.

But that was a rare case.

My point is that for what you pay two guys, the return on investment didn't justify it. A solid well-known even semi-main event tag team doesn't draw any more fans thatn a solid well-knwon semi-main event singles guy.

All i'm sayin'

:):D:D:);););):):D:) <---- so no one takes this too seriously

[PeterHilton]

I hope he comes back to wrestle. Why bother making a lot of noise about using his likeness? Goldberg needs to wrestle. I admit to being a mark for Goldberg so this is what I want to see. I want a Goldberg/Undertaker feud.

Not a huge fan of Goldberg but I agree, his return is pointless unless he gets in the ring. And if he's pushed right...using lots of his WCW run footage...I think he's a draw, too

You could headline a PPV with Goldberg/Cena pretty easily.

[Tag01]

I definitely agree they took away the pros too soon. I don't want to see a match (singles or tag) that involves all rookies. Ever, let alone three weeks in. I mean, the ending to the tag team match this week was botched so bad I don't even know what was SUPPOSED to happen. You're also right about the vagueness...how do they expect people to get into a competition when they don't even know the rules? What are they even voting on next week? Who leaves? Who goes to Raw/Smackdown!? Who gets to sleep with Tiffani? Are they just going to rank them? How long is this competition going to last? Do you win it just by votes or will there be matches at some point? What does the winner get? What about the rest of the wrestlers? We should know all of these answers already. I love the concept, but the execution...leaves a lot to be desired.

There's just no direction. Barrett is a clear heel. Danielson and Sheffield clear faces. The rest of them I have no idea if I'm supposed to like them or not, and most of them suck in the ring. It should have never been this ambiguous "voting." Spend the first several weeks introducing the rookies and letting them interact with the veterans. Have them all work matches, development their face/heel alignment, and develop relationships with the other rookies/pros like they've been doing. Then, close the season out with a single elimination tournament. Winner is guaranteed a contract with the brand of his choice. The losers can be picked up as "free agents." Lots of opportunities in a tournament to build fueds based on costing another worker a match, getting screwed by your pro, etc. That would at least let us know what it is these guys are working towards.

It's too ambiguous between whether or not the winner is the best "wrestler" or the best wrestler. It's kayfabe kinda, but not kinda. Just treat it like any other brand where the wrestlers are trying to win, period.

[justtxyank]

Not a huge fan of Goldberg but I agree, his return is pointless unless he gets in the ring. And if he's pushed right...using lots of his WCW run footage...I think he's a draw, too

You could headline a PPV with Goldberg/Cena pretty easily.

Heck yeah you could.

Cena/Goldberg could main event a show.
Goldberg/Batista could be a solid secondary main event.
Goldberg/Taker would be a great "mark out" feud.
Goldberg/Jericho will always have potential because of the WCW stuff.

And how can we live without Goldberg laughing at Edge backstage and saying "You call that a spear?" A Goldberg/Edge feud could have some epic comedy. Goldberg on the announce team for an Edge match, Edge sets up for the spear, Goldberg says "OH NO! Edge is setting up for the Gentle Hug Takedown! It's all over folks!"

[justtxyank]

Ummmm..the interviews I've seen about that time period would say that yes, their combined checks would've been more.

But that was a rare case.

My point is that for what you pay two guys, the return on investment didn't justify it. A solid well-known even semi-main event tag team doesn't draw any more fans thatn a solid well-knwon semi-main event singles guy.

All i'm sayin'

:):D:D:);););):):D:) <---- so no one takes this too seriously

Yeah the Road Warriors are the exception to the rules though. They could main event for you and draw. Most tag teams, even over ones, could never do that.

[shawn michaels 82]

Ummmm..the interviews I've seen about that time period would say that yes, their combined checks would've been more.

But that was a rare case.

My point is that for what you pay two guys, the return on investment didn't justify it. A solid well-known even semi-main event tag team doesn't draw any more fans thatn a solid well-knwon semi-main event singles guy.

All i'm sayin'

:):D:D:);););):):D:) <---- so no one takes this too seriously

I see this post as an insult to my person, wich means i will now kill myself as my heart is broken... Oh...the pain!!!! :eek:


:):D:D:);););):):D:):p:D:o:cool::):p:D:):D:p;):D:D :D:D:D:D <---- so no one takes this too seriously.


Edit: Before i kill myself i had an epiphany and ran back here to edit this post. I forgot to say that i didn't explain myself well. I ment that nowadays a good team would never get a bigger pay check (with both guys income combined) then a ME. So, it would not be so unprofitable to bet on a certain high level of teams. (but not only ME teams, of course)

[jesterx7769]

I think the Goldberg thing might require to do like a year run and end at WM. The guy doesn't need the money (unlike Flair who keeps wrestling to pay all his ex's), he recently said he doesnt want to keep wrestling his tights as an old man, and he has also done a good job of distancing himself from the business and be successful which is hard to do.

However I def. see this more as an outside the ring business deal than a "lets bring Goldberg in so he can be a top draw again" deal. I say that for a few reasons,

- First is TNA. Goldberg doesn't like them. It isn't just because of Hogan but both Goldberg and Lesnar publicly stated they were upset TNA kept using their names to tease big signings (which did over and over and over) and as we all know Hogan teased bringing him in which Goldberg said they never even negotiated.

- That first point was Goldberg being personal with TNA, second is WWE's "battle" with TNA. While Goldberg didn't want to go to TNA now that doesn't mean they wont throw money at him in the future which would draw more hype for TNA and let them sell ALOT of merchandise which WWE could be selling.

- Merchandise and DVD. This of course benefits both sides. Goldberg can make a lot more money of merchandise than with TNA so it only makes sense for him. They can bring Goldberg in ring for a year, give him a title run like before (theres two titles so no one else is getting hurt) then when he is done put out a DVD including his WCW run which would sell especially now that he would have more WWE footage and it would actually be a good one to watch. Also think of a post career book. Of course then WWE can still sell their Who's Next shirts and all that even after he's gone giving both money for longer.

- Post Wrestling. Goldberg does appearances but WWE can give him more opportunities (heck he could come to AXXESS every year) making more money. Also, a movie. WWE has been getting into them and Goldberg would fit for a good role (doesnt even have to be the star) and because he's already had success outside of wrestling promoting things like that would be easier, I mean my Dad even likes him b/c of his car shows and car collection but has no clue who Cena is.

- Finally HOF. This ties into Post Wrestling but as people have said WWE is lacking "big" names for the HOF because lets face it, there have only been so many big names in the 20 years of mainstream wrestling. yes there are still good old worthy guys, but not alot of them appeal to the general WWE audience. If Goldberg did his year (or just over) run like I said winning the title he would then be a two time WWE champion and one time WCW champion and have the streak and all that and lets face it there have been less deserving people get into the HOF.

-Sting. This one is REALLY iffy I don't expect this to fully happen but at least listen. Sting has disliked WWE is without a doubt the biggest star of the era that has never worked for WWE. If they treat a former WCW guy like Goldberg well it might help Sting do something with WWE after he retires and is done with TNA even if it is only to do a book, movie, and HOF thing. Afterall, if Goldberg can make all that money without doing much work, why woulnd't Sting at least think about it? Goldberg isn't the golden thing that would make this happen but it sure as hell doens't hurt.

Overall seems like a great business decision that didn't capitalize on before but I agree he has to return to the ring (even if only wrestling at PPV's) or he wont have the momentum to just sell merchandise.

[jesterx7769]

Just to clarify I do think he could feud and sell PPV's well, (really like the idea of Edge after he's made a big deal about his spear) I was just focusing on the other asepcts since it really isn't about wrestling for Goldberg at 40

[shawn michaels 82]

I think the Goldberg thing might require to do like a year run and end at WM. The guy doesn't need the money (unlike Flair who keeps wrestling to pay all his ex's), he recently said he doesnt want to keep wrestling his tights as an old man, and he has also done a good job of distancing himself from the business and be successful which is hard to do.

However I def. see this more as an outside the ring business deal than a "lets bring Goldberg in so he can be a top draw again" deal. I say that for a few reasons,

- First is TNA. Goldberg doesn't like them. It isn't just because of Hogan but both Goldberg and Lesnar publicly stated they were upset TNA kept using their names to tease big signings (which did over and over and over) and as we all know Hogan teased bringing him in which Goldberg said they never even negotiated.

- That first point was Goldberg being personal with TNA, second is WWE's "battle" with TNA. While Goldberg didn't want to go to TNA now that doesn't mean they wont throw money at him in the future which would draw more hype for TNA and let them sell ALOT of merchandise which WWE could be selling.

- Merchandise and DVD. This of course benefits both sides. Goldberg can make a lot more money of merchandise than with TNA so it only makes sense for him. They can bring Goldberg in ring for a year, give him a title run like before (theres two titles so no one else is getting hurt) then when he is done put out a DVD including his WCW run which would sell especially now that he would have more WWE footage and it would actually be a good one to watch. Also think of a post career book. Of course then WWE can still sell their Who's Next shirts and all that even after he's gone giving both money for longer.

- Post Wrestling. Goldberg does appearances but WWE can give him more opportunities (heck he could come to AXXESS every year) making more money. Also, a movie. WWE has been getting into them and Goldberg would fit for a good role (doesnt even have to be the star) and because he's already had success outside of wrestling promoting things like that would be easier, I mean my Dad even likes him b/c of his car shows and car collection but has no clue who Cena is.

- Finally HOF. This ties into Post Wrestling but as people have said WWE is lacking "big" names for the HOF because lets face it, there have only been so many big names in the 20 years of mainstream wrestling. yes there are still good old worthy guys, but not alot of them appeal to the general WWE audience. If Goldberg did his year (or just over) run like I said winning the title he would then be a two time WWE champion and one time WCW champion and have the streak and all that and lets face it there have been less deserving people get into the HOF.

-Sting. This one is REALLY iffy I don't expect this to fully happen but at least listen. Sting has disliked WWE is without a doubt the biggest star of the era that has never worked for WWE. If they treat a former WCW guy like Goldberg well it might help Sting do something with WWE after he retires and is done with TNA even if it is only to do a book, movie, and HOF thing. Afterall, if Goldberg can make all that money without doing much work, why woulnd't Sting at least think about it? Goldberg isn't the golden thing that would make this happen but it sure as hell doens't hurt.

Overall seems like a great business decision that didn't capitalize on before but I agree he has to return to the ring (even if only wrestling at PPV's) or he wont have the momentum to just sell merchandise.

There isn't much to add here, as you brilliantly explained yourself, but i have to say that maybe the Sting part isn't that much iffy as some may think.

[justtxyank]

I think Goldberg has so much left to offer the business. His run with the E was so disappointing. I can not believe we never got Goldberg vs Austin.

[Self]

A year of Goldberg would be overkill for me. I loved his streak, but without it he doesn't do it for me. A three month arc like they're doing with Bret (only more physical) could be nice though. I'd enjoy that.

[BurningHamster]

I think Goldberg has so much left to offer the business. His run with the E was so disappointing. I can not believe we never got Goldberg vs Austin.

I usually agree with you on most things about wrestling justtxyank, but holy cow could I not disagree with this more :p

Even during his prime I thought Goldberg had very little to offer, difference is now he is older, less motivated (not that he ever seemed to be into wrestling to begin with) and has no momentum behind him.

I think signing him for a merchandise deal makes sense as WWE could probably make some money off the WCW nostalgia, and as was mentioned I could see him be used in a Bret Hart style mini-run but of all the former WCW people I would like to see in WWE now Goldberg ranks about 129 on the list. Bring in La Parka or give us a 3 Count reunion first.

[Tag01]

I usually agree with you on most things about wrestling justtxyank, but holy cow could I not disagree with this more :p

Even during his prime I thought Goldberg had very little to offer, difference is now he is older, less motivated (not that he ever seemed to be into wrestling to begin with) and has no momentum behind him.

I think signing him for a merchandise deal makes sense as WWE could probably make some money off the WCW nostalgia, and as was mentioned I could see him be used in a Bret Hart style mini-run but of all the former WCW people I would like to see in WWE now Goldberg ranks about 129 on the list. Bring in La Parka or give us a 3 Count reunion first.

Man I loved La Parka.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep it makes more sense for Goldberg to sign with the E and as Jester pointed out there is a bigger chance he will be used well there. In the TNA thread I made clear what I thought about him possibly in TNA. In short it was that he could be an asset but that he would have to be handled exactly right or it wouldn't work which would make it too big a risk given his cost.

[jesterx7769]

There isn't much to add here, as you brilliantly explained yourself, but i have to say that maybe the Sting part isn't that much iffy as some may think.

Yep it makes more sense for Goldberg to sign with the E and as Jester pointed out there is a bigger chance he will be used well there. In the TNA thread I made clear what I thought about him possibly in TNA. In short it was that he could be an asset but that he would have to be handled exactly right or it wouldn't work which would make it too big a risk given his cost.

thanks :)

A year of Goldberg would be overkill for me. I loved his streak, but without it he doesn't do it for me. A three month arc like they're doing with Bret (only more physical) could be nice though. I'd enjoy that.

Even something like this would but I def. think he has to make an in ring return. If this is a pure merchandise deal and WWE put a "Who's next!?" shirt on WWE.com tomorrow would people really buy it? Compare that to having him spear Edge at a PPV after a title defense (if he wins) in two months, THEN, put the shirt online the next day. I think both sides are smart enough business wise to figure that out.

[crownsy]

Completly random change of topic, what's everyones top three matchs they are looking forward to besides the obvious HBK Taker Rematch?

I think mine are, in order...

Punk vs. Rey

This fued went to "why would they even fight" to absolutely epic in about 3 weeks of promos. Great, Great tie in with Punk going all creepy on Rey's family and making it personal.

I'm also just really looking forward to the match on an in ring level. Both guys can really go, and i hope they give this match a long time slot on the card. I think this has the potential to steal the show, out of the Non- ME matches

MITB - always a fun spot fest, and i get to pull for my dark horse who will never win, shelton benjermin. I'm also a big ziggler fan, love to see them pull the swerve and let dolph have it (even though he's kinda stalled at the moment, due to that whole...unpleasantness with rey and such.)

I'm hoping christian takes this one and goes after edge, love to see those two back in the same ring. please oh please, no drew...even though they've been pushing that heavy.

Cena Vs Batista - i'm not a fan of either guy, to be honest, but both have a rep of raising thier games at WM and can put on a good match.

What's everyone else's take?

[shawn michaels 82]

Yep it makes more sense for Goldberg to sign with the E and as Jester pointed out there is a bigger chance he will be used well there. In the TNA thread I made clear what I thought about him possibly in TNA. In short it was that he could be an asset but that he would have to be handled exactly right or it wouldn't work which would make it too big a risk given his cost.

Frankly...i think Goldberg is over rated...way over rated. I can't see him doing something that would be that worth of watching and i defnitely can't see him headlining on WWE. I'm not saying it's not doable, i'm just saying i wouldn't be interested in watching it. Wich doesn't mean i wouldn't mind seeing him there for a run, but not as a headliner. I wouldn't mind seeing the guy back, as he would still be useful, but i think he's over rated. As someone already said, there are a lot of former WCW guys i'd rather see beeing signed first. But i won't go as far as sayign he's my "129" pick. :D But that's just my opinion.

[jesterx7769]

Jim Ross commented on it in his latest blog, I'm not going to post or link since its not ground breaking but he basically said how both sides are smart and realize it could be business and why it isn't about Goldberg returning to the ring as much as merchandsing, WM is in Atlanta next year so its possible he could do a final run up to that.

As far as matches for Wm,

Punk vs. Rey is good if Punk wins, lets face it Rey is getting older Punk has gotten over as a face and heel and can carry the company for years and I think a big WM singles win will help him.

MITB- doesnt really excite me because i dont see any of the wrestlers in it potential World title HOF superstar. Will it be an entertaining match? Most probably. It seems Swagger/Christian/McIntyre will win based on pushes. What bothers me about this match is how its the total midcarder show. Shouldn't Triple H, Sheamus, Punk, Rey want to be in this match? It's a fun idea and I get its used to elevate people but with how poorly the qualifying squash matches were and the lack of a break out star (before anyone says Christian he has been "breaking out" for years and WWE seems pretty darn content not to make him a Main Eventer) it just doesnt excite me. Also while Benjamin, Bourne, Hardy, and Kingston are in it for the athletic purposes, having Kane in this match (again) kinda bums me out.

Edit I do think it would be cool if they announced a stipulation that would be in the WM MITB You can't have been a former World champion. I think it would kayfabe explain why ME's don't care about being in it and I think it would do a good job emphasizing how big of a push/opportunity it is.

so the three matches in no order excluding HBk/taker
- Punk vs. Rey
- Jericho vs. Edge (hope feud contineus after Mania)
- Orton three way- reason being i am curious to see how it goes as I feel they could book it alot of ways