The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Astil]

- Bryan came out with no "Yes!" shouting to sell that he's mad. A.J. held the ropes open for him with all of her body weight in a funny moment. To start, A.J. tried to make Bryan feel better about losing the World Title at WrestleMania. The crowd wants to support Bryan, but he thinks they're mocking him. He says the "Yes!" chants don't make it better, then blamed all of his troubles on A.J., running her down and trying to get the crowd to boo him. He then dumped her and heeled it up pretty well, shouting "We're through!" Plus, he called her "fat." A.J. ran out of the ring to the back as the crowd sang the "Na na na, goodbye" song. Then, "Yes!" chants and the crowd still cheered him.

*courtesy of PWTorch spoilers

[BurningHamster]

I'm behind the times, only just saw mania tonight...

They screwed up more than they got right. :mad: It was still an alright show, but it had the potential to be so great. I knew they'd blow a few things, but god damn.

D-Bry/Sheamus was downright insulting to all concerned. I was looking forward to that match so much :(

Big Show/Rhodes - Meh, who cares. Show is Show and Rhodes isn't Dusty or Goldust.

Orton/Kane - Meh, why is Kane winning in 2012? why does he exist in 2012

Divas match was rubbish, my girl Beth needs to just Goldberg her way through everyone for a year, not lose to some scrawny low level tv personality. I like Beth so much and want her to have my super muscular heel babies.

HIAC - Good stuff

Team Johnny -vs- Team Teddy - The right team won, the wrong guy took the fall but at least it looks like they are going somewhere with it. I was fine with the match, it was about what I expected.

Punk/Jericho - Pretty good, not quite the awesomeness I expected though.

Brodus Clay segment? Abysmal garbage that makes me never want to watch WWE again. Shoot everyone involved, dump them in mass graves and move on.

Flo Rida is a bellend. Heath Slater could have taken him anyway. Also his music blows and his attack was entirely unprovoked. Is he a heel? Why are celebrity guests heels and who were those two clowns who showed up when Heath got pushed? :confused:

Rock/Cena? Meh, so so match, wrong guy won. I rioted as best I could on my own on a wednesday night in Australia.

[Hive]

I like Beth so much and want her to have my super muscular heel babies.

Man, you're messed up. :D

[Jaysin]

Was on WWE.com reading an article about tag teams and what not...I'd love this. I'd absolutely love this.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e322/VenomousPrime/christianbryan.jpg

[The Final Countdown]

I'd rather see them both continue on in singles, but yeah, that would be a really entertaining team.

Heck, it could be a good feud too, if the "YES" thing really catches on and eventually forces them to turn Bryan face again. I could see Christian playing off of "YES" chants really well.

[Jaysin]

I'd rather see them both continue on in singles, but yeah, that would be a really entertaining team.

Heck, it could be a good feud too, if the "YES" thing really catches on and eventually forces them to turn Bryan face again. I could see Christian playing off of "YES" chants really well.

I'd love to see them feud. They're two of my favorites

[crownsy]

Big Show/Rhodes - Meh, who cares. Show is Show and Rhodes isn't Dusty or Goldust.

your right, he's much better than golddust ever was and will be much better than dusty ;)

[Jaysin]

your right, he's much better than golddust ever was and will be much better than dusty ;)

Goldust was absolutely amazing. He was the only reason I tuned into WWF back in the mid 90s.

Dusty was awesome too, but I do believe Cody has a shot at being better than him.

[The Final Countdown]

your right, he's much better than golddust ever was and will be much better than dusty ;)
I actually agree about him being better than Goldust, but Cody ever matching or surpassing Dusty is a very tall order IMO. I wasn't even an NWA fan during Dusty's heyday, but just from the stuff I've seen years after the fact, it's obvious that Dusty oozed charisma and was one of the best talkers ever.

Unrelated, but: Daniel Bryan tweeted that WWE is already in the process of making a YES shirt, and it'll probably be out sometime next week. Guess they aren't going to ignore it. :D

[milamber]

Haven't read any SD spoilers but they should have Sheamus address Bryan and the crowd saying that it wouldn't have mattered if the Mania match had been 30 seconds long or 30 minutes long, it still would have ended with his boot in Bryan's face and a 1-2-3. Then on next week's SD have the 2 agree to a 30-minutes ironman match at Extreme Rules.

Sheamus can save face by beating Bryan legit, we get a longer match than we would have seen at Mania anyway and Bryan can continue being a heel.

[Rone Rivendale]

Haven't read any SD spoilers but they should have Sheamus address Bryan and the crowd saying that it wouldn't have mattered if the Mania match had been 30 seconds long or 30 minutes long, it still would have ended with his boot in Bryan's face and a 1-2-3. Then on next week's SD have the 2 agree to a 30-minutes ironman match at Extreme Rules.

Sheamus can save face by beating Bryan legit, we get a longer match than we would have seen at Mania anyway and Bryan can continue being a heel.

I really like this idea. I hope something like this happens (but it won't)

On a related note, I wonder if this is the end of AJ's turn in the spotlight now. Can she find another storyline on Raw/SD or will she be exclusive to Superstars again. :P

[milamber]

I can imagine a scenario where AJ, with good intentions, tries to help Bryan and costs him his rematch against Sheamus. Then Bryan tries to smack her around but Sheamus rescues her.

Rumours are circulating that Lesnar has signed a 1 year contract and that Rock v Brock is a potential WM 29 match (presumably with a loser leaves WWE forever stipulation). Also read that Lesnar is keen to have a match with Austin.

[soxfan93]

Rumours are circulating that Lesnar has signed a 1 year contract and that Rock v Brock is a potential WM 29 match (presumably with a loser leaves WWE forever stipulation). Also read that Lesnar is keen to have a match with Austin.

Those aren't rumors anymore. They were last week, but now it's been confirmed: 1-year deal, minimum 2 appearances per month, 30-35 appearances overall, with WWE having the right to negotiate for more.

I expect Lesnar to win the WWE Championship at Survivor Series or Royal Rumble, with The Rock winning the Royal Rumble match.

[Basmat01]

I expect Lesnar to win the WWE Championship at Survivor Series or Royal Rumble, with The Rock winning the Royal Rumble match.

if thats the case looks like im ordering both RR and WM next year :D

[milamber]

Even with Rock being part-time they seem to be reinforcing the main event roster, which probably is a good idea. So now we have Punk, Cena, Rock, Lesnar, Jericho, Bryan, Orton, Sheamus, Del Rio, Miz & Rhodes all trying to win or retain one of the 2 big titles this year. Half of them can be moved down to the upper midcard as needed. Hopefully Christian, Rey and Barrett will return soon to bolster the midcard. Add a couple of FCW guys and they should have the manpower to fix the tag division.

[Hive]

Next year's WrestleMania:

The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar

Steve Austin vs. CM Punk

John Cena vs. The Undertaker

[juggaloninjalee]

Next year's WrestleMania:

The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar

Steve Austin vs. CM Punk

John Cena vs. The Undertaker

What's funny about that is I can see Brock Lesnar facing Rock, Austin, or Taker at Mania next year.

I could see Austin against Punk, Lesnar or Cena next year also.

I also could see Cena vs Rock again.

Right now I find it hard to predict anything for Mania as a for sure match up.

[bigtplaystew]

Next year's WrestleMania:

The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar

Steve Austin vs. CM Punk

John Cena vs. The Undertaker

I'm sure this pleases Randy Orton to no end. :-)

Of course, this is all rumored and what not, but if this happens, it'll be awesome. I'm glad they're bringing some grandeur back to Wrestlemania, as I felt the few before last year's didn't feel all that special.

[ThatChizzle]

I would love to see Punk v. Austin. Austin even mentioned it in his DVD that he would like to wrestle Punk.
But, isn't Steve Austin in the same position that Edge is in with the weak neck?

[bigtplaystew]

There's been varying reports on Austin's neck. Who knows? He's a big boy. If he wants to take the risks and get in the ring one more time that decision is his. My biggest issue is do they both go in face or do they feel like they gotta "turn" Punk again?

[Basmat01]

but doesnt Austin do like most of his own stunts in his movies anyways.

[Hive]

My biggest issue is do they both go in face or do they feel like they gotta "turn" Punk again?

I'd argue that it doesn't matter whether it's face/heel, face/face, heel/heel with those two, as they're both the kind of workers that will get cheered no matter what.

[bigtplaystew]

From what I understand about the situation, based on things both guys have said, I think Edge and Austin's situations were a little different.

Edge has more severe nerve damage in his neck and if I remember correctly, and his spinal cord is compressing several nerves. It's not so much the fear of breaking his neck that is the problem. It's that just landing even safely could cause him paralysis because of the compression of his big nerves.

Whereas Stone Cold's situation is more like, "His neck can't take more damage" kind of thing. So he might theoretically be able to get in there, do a few moves, and get out. I doubt very much he'd be able to go all-out though and give us a great match, but that doesn't mean he can't be entertaining.

I could be wrong here, people. I have never looked at either man's medical files obviously so who knows? I do work in healthcare and more often than not, even the patients themselves don't know what the hell is going on with them. People generally deal with medical news about themselves in the big picture. "Will I live? Will it get worse? Do I need surgery? Can I work?" kinda stuff. Beyond that, your average patient often doesn't know exactly what is medically wrong with them. I know it sounds crazy but it's the truth.

So even Edge and Austin might not be correctly depicting their medical situations.

[Target Practice]

Add a couple of FCW guys and they should have the manpower to fix the tag division.

This. Oh god, this. Part of the reason the Attitude era was so successful for the 'E was that they had the tag division for young guys like Edge and Christian and the Hardys to get face time on camera, get themselves over with the fans, and also to put on entertaining matches every now and then.
I know I've said this before, but the tag division is also a really handy way of pacing a PPV. I lost count of the number of PPVs in the attitude era where the New Age Outlaws jerked the curtain and put on a competent and entertaining, but not mindblowing match to get the fans warmed up.

Also, it's a nice place to hide the guys you don't have anything in mind for right now - the likes of DiBiase, Evan Bourne, R-Truth - all decent workers who you could either have pulling a dark match or the 'superstars special', or you could give them a tag match to fill a segment on Raw, and therefore we'd never ever have to endure another Funkasaurus segment again. And that's something I think we can all agree would be a wonderful thing.

[Hive]

the likes of DiBiase, Evan Bourne

DiBiase and Bourne could become a kick ass tag team.

What WWE doesn't seem to get with tag teams these days however is that you need a tag team GIMMICK for them. It's not just enough to randomly pair midcarders and then do nothing further. Give them a common gimmick with matching attires and a wicked tag team finisher.

If done right, tag teams can become just as over as main eventers in singles competition.

[djthefunkchris]

DiBiase and Bourne could become a kick ass tag team.

What WWE doesn't seem to get with tag teams these days however is that you need a tag team GIMMICK for them. It's not just enough to randomly pair midcarders and then do nothing further. Give them a common gimmick with matching attires and a wicked tag team finisher.

If done right, tag teams can become just as over as main eventers in singles competition.
I agree with all of this. I think they purposely don't go this route though, even with tag teams that have been together for a long time (If they hire one, for example). The reason I believe is to make sure they are seen as individual characters, just in case they can get over huge on their own (Jeff Hardy for example). Two individuals can make twice the money, and probably more money even if they never hit the status your talking about, if they are "just under" that status (Miz/Morrison).

I could be totally wrong, but my mind always goes the "Money" route whenever I try to understand anything the WWE does.

[bigtplaystew]

Tag team wrestling isn't as relevant anymore as far as WWE is concerned. I feel like they're cool in live events to break up the show a little bit, but other than that, I dont see tag teams as being big draws in WWE's world.

Don't get me wrong, I dig good tag team wrestling. ROH knows how to put together really crazy live tag team wrestling matches. But a wrestling-based promotion benefits from tag teams as it gives the fans something different to watch. In the world of talking-over-wrestling (as in the WWE) tag teams don't really make much sense it seems.

Maybe with the network they'll have the time and freedom to maybe have a more wrestling oriented show and tag teams can develop there. I just dont see several tag teams being a big part of a two hour Raw or Smackdown.

[BurningHamster]

This. Oh god, this. Part of the reason the Attitude era was so successful for the 'E was that they had the tag division for young guys like Edge and Christian and the Hardys to get face time on camera, get themselves over with the fans, and also to put on entertaining matches every now and then.
I know I've said this before, but the tag division is also a really handy way of pacing a PPV. I lost count of the number of PPVs in the attitude era where the New Age Outlaws jerked the curtain and put on a competent and entertaining, but not mindblowing match to get the fans warmed up.

Also, it's a nice place to hide the guys you don't have anything in mind for right now - the likes of DiBiase, Evan Bourne, R-Truth - all decent workers who you could either have pulling a dark match or the 'superstars special', or you could give them a tag match to fill a segment on Raw, and therefore we'd never ever have to endure another Funkasaurus segment again. And that's something I think we can all agree would be a wonderful thing.

Yeah, all of this. The fact we rarely even see the tag belts defended on PPV is an absolute travesty. As is the fact we are subjected to singles matches by some of these "superstars". I loved the Miz/Truth combination but find them less interesting as singles guys, thought Kofi was way more tolerable when teaming with Bourne. The thing is, WWE has lots of singles wrestlers who shouldn't be. Guys who can wrestle and talk well enough to get over are few. So why not team up a few people so that between them you might be able to get an okay promo and an okay match out of them if need be?

[Jaysin]

There's also a ton of guys who they're just not doing anything with or have something for. Remember before Miz and Morrison teamed up, both of them were kind of floundering with nothing going for them except their talent. They randomly get paired up and take off like crazy.

I don't think Miz would have been as successful as he's been if it wasn't for that pairing with Morrison that initially got him over.

[b0shey]

Wow, how could WWE not have Skip Sheffield do his original Ryback gimmick.

He is supposed to be a new age terminator.. his OVW/FCW look was menacing along with the Terminator theme.

on a side not; I swear AJ gets more adorable each time i see her :D

[Target Practice]

thought Kofi was way more tolerable when teaming with Bourne.

Oh god yes. Air Boom seemed to be pretty over (or at least as over as it's possible to be in the WWE tag division), they even had the beginnings of a feud going with Primo and Epico, and I actually began to hope that this was the start of a resurgence for the division. Now, it looks like they've split the team without any reasoning whatsoever, Kofi is on a very mild push that will peter out before long unless he gets a meaningful feud, and the last I saw of Evan, he was tagging with Hornswoggle.

[Self]

Evan getting busted for a wellness violation and then breaking his foot probably did something towards ending the team.

[BurningHamster]

Evan getting busted for a wellness violation and then breaking his foot probably did something towards ending the team.

Yeah, stupid Evan. But still, it's not like there's a shortage of smallish highflying white guys around they could replace him with, or a shortage of people already in the WWE with not much on. Pretty much anyone who I am bored by or who isn't up to much should be thrown into a tag team to see if that makes them any more tolerable.

[crownsy]

Oh god yes. Air Boom seemed to be pretty over (or at least as over as it's possible to be in the WWE tag division), they even had the beginnings of a feud going with Primo and Epico, and I actually began to hope that this was the start of a resurgence for the division. Now, it looks like they've split the team without any reasoning whatsoever, Kofi is on a very mild push that will peter out before long unless he gets a meaningful feud, and the last I saw of Evan, he was tagging with Hornswoggle.

What explanation would you like them to go with?

maybe kofi could come out and say something like "yea, we were going to be awesome, but my partner is a chronic pot head so...don't do drugs kids!"

I mean, if the team had been more established than 3 weeks of doing the boom claps together and coming up with a crappy name, then sure im with ya, they would have needed to explain why Evan randomly disappeared and the tag team ended.

But given how quickly Evan derailed the whole thing, I think it was just as valid for them to trust the audience to know the guy got suspended TWICE in the last 6 months and not reward evan for his stupidity by hiding his absence through keyfabe.

I mean sucks for Kofi, but thems the breaks.

[milamber]

I enjoyed Teddy telling Lauranitis to go to hell and Lauranitis making Teddy his bitch.

Kane v Orton - Orton gets his revenge. Decent brawl with a couple of nice DDT spots. Rubber match at Extreme Rules where I hope Kane wins.

Barry Who? v Ryback - WWE doesn't really need another monster but it's good to see Skip Sheffield back.

I like that they acknowledged Bryan's popularity then had him rip AJ a new asshole. Say what you will about the so-called "mishandling" of Bryan since NXT, but his entire storyline since day one has led to a brilliant payoff. Let's hope they keep him interesting until WM 29.

Damien Sandow - Another call-up from FCW.

Sheamus v De Rio - The match was okay but the finish was great with Del Rio play-acting to get Sheamus DQ'd. And Sheamus brogue kicking the ref? I like it when WWE let their characters have shades of grey.

[milamber]

They paired together Gabriel & Kidd for the WM 28 dark match but Gabriel's out for 6 weeks. They could be a damn good tag team.

[Basmat01]

Tag team wrestling isn't as relevant anymore as far as WWE is concerned. I feel like they're cool in live events to break up the show a little bit, but other than that, I dont see tag teams as being big draws in WWE's world.


Brian Kendrick and Paul London seem to have been told the same thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNXg3KRUOcY&feature=related

[ThatChizzle]

Is it just me, or is David Otunga using Chris Masters gimmick?

[Zeel1]

Is it just me, or is David Otunga using Chris Masters gimmick?


Masters as a stuck-up lawyer, I guess. :p

[Self]

They paired together Gabriel & Kidd for the WM 28 dark match but Gabriel's out for 6 weeks. They could be a damn good tag team.

The curse of Tyson Kidd. First he does an angle with Trent Barreta, making them a team, and Trent gets hurt. Now the same thing with Gabriel.

I believe tag teams can draw as much as solo acts (I always make the tag straps 'Main Event' in my TEW games). With the right push, it can happen. Problem is, a main event tag team isn't going to draw twice as much as a solo act, which it would need to justify paying two guys 'top guy' wages. Now there are a million variables in there, but generally it makes a twisted, capitalist kinda sense. Together, Miz & Morrison were awesome, and could conceivably draw on top. Alas, separate, they were more valuable. Filling two spots on the card, selling their own merchandise etc.

NXT has teams. Uso's. Young & Titus. Rekins. It makes characters more interesting to see who their friends are. I love NXT.

[milamber]

Epico's post-mania twitter rant:

Can you believe this @LaRosaMendes ? Every single WWE title was on The Wrestlemania PPV. But the WWE tag champs get the Pre-show

I thought this was WRESTLEmania.... Not CONCERTmania... Who did Flo-rida and that MGK beat??? I guess they beat the tag champs

Not only the tag champs get left out of wrestlemania... We weren't even on Raw and it looks like we won't be on smackdown either...

@Rygaux and since when is Flo-rida, MGK and that menounos chick relevant to a wrestlemania????

Dude's got a point but he better keep his mouth shut or there won't be any tag teams in WWE.

[Bull]

Epico's post-mania twitter rant:

Can you believe this @LaRosaMendes ? Every single WWE title was on The Wrestlemania PPV. But the WWE tag champs get the Pre-show

I thought this was WRESTLEmania.... Not CONCERTmania... Who did Flo-rida and that MGK beat??? I guess they beat the tag champs

Not only the tag champs get left out of wrestlemania... We weren't even on Raw and it looks like we won't be on smackdown either...

@Rygaux and since when is Flo-rida, MGK and that menounos chick relevant to a wrestlemania????

Dude's got a point but he better keep his mouth shut or there won't be any tag teams in WWE.

Last thing I read about this was that it was part of WWE's thing to do more storylines via social media, so I don't know if I would take it all that seriously or not.

[shawn michaels 82]

Laurinaitis being the ass kisser that he is, and keeping his work as an executive was already bad...but will he be leading the 2 shows for a long time? Cause that is a disaster.

[Bigpapa42]

Laurinaitis being the ass kisser that he is, and keeping his work as an executive was already bad...but will he be leading the 2 shows for a long time? Cause that is a disaster.

Since they're keeping Teddy Long around, chances are he won't be permanent. That said, Laurinitis has grown on me and he feels much much more fresh than Teddy Long at this point, who has been doing the same basic stuff forever (or at least it feels like).

[cappyboy]

Laurinaitis being the ass kisser that he is, and keeping his work as an executive was already bad...but will he be leading the 2 shows for a long time? Cause that is a disaster.

Agreed. Johnny was pretty good to watch as a talent. But as an on-screen executive, he's strictly stock. There isn't enough to him to put the energy into in-character hating him. That why I wanted Team Teddy to win at Wrestlemania. Love the guy or hate him, there's substance to Teddy's character. You could have a Jeff Raitz or a Steve Simpson or some other half-remembered indy guy from 20 years in his role and it would be just the same as Laurinaitis as far as how he projects himself. For a company that's supposed to be all about entertainment, they sure swung this match in favor of the less entertaining choice.

[djthefunkchris]

Since they're keeping Teddy Long around, chances are he won't be permanent. That said, Laurinitis has grown on me and he feels much much more fresh than Teddy Long at this point, who has been doing the same basic stuff forever (or at least it feels like).

/nod, I agree. Plus the size of Laurinitis could be used to "intimidate" smaller worker's or even female characters. Just thinking he's a good choice.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I like Teddy, always have.. For years, and I mean years. I've always liked him, just seems to be a guy interested in helping people (not that I know this, just comes off that way to me). On camera, for instance, I've always felt he gives his best for whomever he is against/for, in his role. Treats them as if they are important, no matter what level of the card they are on. Other's that have come and gone I haven't had that same feeling with... Even other wrestler's. Teddy treats them, no matter if they are a tag team starting up, or main eventers... He gives it the same amount of "work". I'm not saying he's "great" at it, just that he makes me believe "everything" is important, which is what I feel is needed on any of the "B" shows (for example).

Laurinitis looks like he could probably go again, if needed. He looks like he can fill Vince's shoes somewhat. He looks like he could have a feud with someone in the lower card and shoot them into the Main Event, if needed. If only he could speak a bit more aggressively.

[The Final Countdown]

That said, Laurinitis has grown on me and he feels much much more fresh than Teddy Long at this point, who has been doing the same basic stuff forever (or at least it feels like).
100% agree. I'm sick of Teddy. Not that I have anything against him personally, but you can only hear "holla holla", "playa", and "tag team match" so many times.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I like Teddy purely for memes' sake. Whether its announcing a tag team main event or a one-on-one match with "The Undertaka!~" cause that's what we know him best for. I wouldn't choose him to manage both brands though, I'd feel more comfortable with Johnny which I've grown into. I think revisiting the dynamic of a heel authority could be very interesting, and could help build certain babyfaces.. God knows there's a need of some bankable ones.

[djthefunkchris]

I like Teddy purely for memes' sake. Whether its announcing a tag team main event or a one-on-one match with "The Undertaka!~" cause that's what we know him best for. I wouldn't choose him to manage both brands though, I'd feel more comfortable with Johnny which I've grown into. I think revisiting the dynamic of a heel authority could be very interesting, and could help build certain babyfaces.. God knows there's a need of some bankable ones.

Basically... Teddy's good to build heels with, but you need a heel GM to build up faces with.

A good heel can help build a good face, and the opposite is true as well... but with an authority figure, a face GM doesn't do much to promote a good guy, as they are going to side with the good guy (or should). A heel authority, can manipulate results, make it hard on a face, and make them lose, thus making it hard on them and it gives the fans a reason to support them.

Basically.

[shawn michaels 82]

Basically... Teddy's good to build heels with, but you need a heel GM to build up faces with.

A good heel can help build a good face, and the opposite is true as well... but with an authority figure, a face GM doesn't do much to promote a good guy, as they are going to side with the good guy (or should). A heel authority, can manipulate results, make it hard on a face, and make them lose, thus making it hard on them and it gives the fans a reason to support them.

Basically.

No disagreeing there. And i like Teddy, but i also think it's time for a change. I wouldn't mind seeing him around as a manager. But i just don't want that change to be Laurinaitis. I don't hate him enough. At the end of the day, he seems too bland for the important heel part he has to play. I think Reagal was a good heel gm. They could go with that. Anything but Johnny! :D

Edit: "You know how much you've got to suck to be cut off the Canadian football league?" Damn, The Rock truly rules. I lmao with that one. Is he staying only until WM29? Hope he remains after that.

[BurningHamster]

Agreed. Johnny was pretty good to watch as a talent. But as an on-screen executive, he's strictly stock. There isn't enough to him to put the energy into in-character hating him. That why I wanted Team Teddy to win at Wrestlemania. Love the guy or hate him, there's substance to Teddy's character.


No there's not. Seriously, I don't think there is anyone with less substance to them than Teddy. He had to go, He's been around for ages and his act is so very tired. Johnny may not be the greatest guy around (far from it) but at least he's not Teddy. I'm fine with him being the evil middle manager who somehow found his way to the top so long as he isn't in that position for the next 8 years without evolving.

[cappyboy]

. I'm fine with him being the evil middle manager who somehow found his way to the top so long as he isn't in that position for the next 8 years without evolving.

And him being in charge is about to chase me away for another 12 or 18 months as dreadfully boring as he is. Any schlemiel off the street could play Johnny's part and do it with the energy he brings to it.

[ZMAN]

I'm always off and on with Johnny. I think as long as there is someone on camera with him, then he's fine. His dialogue with the other characters can be entertaining.

I'm sick of Teddy. And I hope this is just a way to get him off out of the GM role, and reintroduce a new person into the spot. Not sure who, let's see... NASH.

[shawn michaels 82]

I'm sorry, but i tend to think that the WWE creatives are asses, and they keep justifying this. Sheamus is suposed to be presented as a dominant face champ, (to the point where they f****** burried D-Bry...) but i only see him brogue kicking people who turned their back on him. Like Bryan on WM, and Del Rio on Raw. This is not a valid way of presenting a dominant champ. And to think that they burried Bryan like that... I knew that they would eventually screw him somehow. And despite the fans reaction and support to Bryan, they'll just try do put their agenda ahead. It's what the WWE always does.

[BurningHamster]

And him being in charge is about to chase me away for another 12 or 18 months as dreadfully boring as he is. Any schlemiel off the street could play Johnny's part and do it with the energy he brings to it.

Whereas only a true artist could do Teddy's job? Come on, they both blow. Johnny is the fresher of two evils but I agree about the energy (or lack of) he brings. I too would rather see someone good in the role though but this is WWE. If they get 10% of their decisions right they are batting above their average.

[The Shape]

I find Big Johnny hilarious. Him being...not very good...seems perfectly appropriate. Long term I agree it shouldn't last long, but he can be entertaining. Like when he told Punk he was taller than him.

Admittedly though he is hard to take seriously and so doesn't seem so worth rebelling against, which is bad for Punk et al.

[cappyboy]

Whereas only a true artist could do Teddy's job? Come on, they both blow. Johnny is the fresher of two evils but I agree about the energy (or lack of) he brings. I too would rather see someone good in the role though but this is WWE. If they get 10% of their decisions right they are batting above their average.

A true artist? Dude, what are you smoking? Just because I like Teddy and see more to him than Laurinaitis doesn't mean I see Long as Olivier or anything. But I may as well stop there because you're determined to hate on him. All I know is if Teddy Long blows, I hope I'm able to blow as well at something visible one of these days.

[shawn michaels 82]

A true artist? Dude, what are you smoking? Just because I like Teddy and see more to him than Laurinaitis doesn't mean I see Long as Olivier or anything. But I may as well stop there because you're determined to hate on him. All I know is if Teddy Long blows, I hope I'm able to blow as well at something visible one of these days.

Agree.

[BurningHamster]

A true artist? Dude, what are you smoking? Just because I like Teddy and see more to him than Laurinaitis doesn't mean I see Long as Olivier or anything. But I may as well stop there because you're determined to hate on him. All I know is if Teddy Long blows, I hope I'm able to blow as well at something visible one of these days.

Never smoked anything but yes, I am determined to hate Teddy as I am SO BLOODY SICK OF HIM. I ranted about him before and how saying "playa" is the sum total of his entire contribution to the wrestling industry over the last decade or so. Heck, you like him more than Laurinaitis? Fair enough, we all like what we like. I just don't understand it is all since he only entertained me maybe once in the whole time he's been in WWE. I am sure you have more talent in numerous areas than he has in wrestling.

[Zeel1]

I'm sorry, but i tend to think that the WWE creatives are asses, and they keep justifying this. Sheamus is suposed to be presented as a dominant heel champ, (to the point where they f****** burried D-Bry...) but i only see him brogue kicking people who turned their back on him. Like Bryan on WM, and Del Rio on Raw. This is not a valid way of presenting a dominant champ. And to think that they burried Bryan like that... I knew that they would eventually screw him somehow. And despite the fans reaction and support to Bryan, they'll just try do put their agenda ahead. It's what the WWE always does.

...Sheamus isn't a heel.

[shawn michaels 82]

...Sheamus isn't a heel.

I meant face. XD My bad. If it was heel, the whole rant wouldn't make sense. :D

[Tha Black Phenom]

I meant face. XD My bad. If it was heel, the whole rant wouldn't make sense. :D

With that, I still don't understand where you're coming from about the Sheamus thing. You could somewhat argue a case for Bryan at Mania but even there Sheamus was being opportunistic in a non-heel way. Del Rio on Raw, well yeah he had his back turned to him, and Sheamus makes it pretty clear that it's hazardous to do so.

I mean say for example Shawn Michaels was WWE champ, trading words and fists with heels week in and week out. Would he go ahead and superkick a loudmouth right upfront, as they're staring at each other? No, he's gonna bide his time, soon as the guy turns his back that'll be his no.1 mistake.

And if we went by what WWE "always" does, I don't think Daniel Bryan would even be in the WWE right now, let alone hold its major title.

[djthefunkchris]

@Shawn, I think your just upset about Bryan's match more then anything with that, as just about everyone else is. I know a few people that thought it was funny as hell, but I wasn't one of them. The biggest thing they did wrong with Sheamus is put him in that position with Bryan. Only reason he is/was getting boo'd was because of the Daniel Bryan match. WWE I guess didn't realize how much heat he would get from that.

[shawn michaels 82]

@Shawn, I think your just upset about Bryan's match more then anything with that, as just about everyone else is. I know a few people that thought it was funny as hell, but I wasn't one of them. The biggest thing they did wrong with Sheamus is put him in that position with Bryan. Only reason he is/was getting boo'd was because of the Daniel Bryan match. WWE I guess didn't realize how much heat he would get from that.

I guess you're right, i am upset. And they could capitalise on this and turn him face, but no, they will keep trying to sell him as a heel. It's pretty hard to do so when everyone is cheering for him. Hell, i had a hard time watching him dump AJ, when the fans were behind him.

[crownsy]

I meant face. XD My bad. If it was heel, the whole rant wouldn't make sense. :D

Also im unclear where your coming from on the whole wee is "burying" him thing.

I mean, would i have loved to see him lose in a competitive match at Mania? sure.

but the 18 second loss is playing into his new storyline perfectly. For one, it allowed him to give the promo of his career Friday, embrace the fan support while still heeling it up and ending the whole "weasel who hides behind AJ" part of the shtick.

also, they are clearly not just sending bryan to the mid card or something. He announced in his promo he's using his rematch clause, and johnny made it very clear in his promo that he considers Shemus win over bryan tainted and that bryan will be getting another shot at shemus.

I understand that Bryan fans wanted him presented as some sort of dominant heel champion. But thats not the only kind of heel in the world.

EDIT: also since when is being cheered as a heel a bad thing??

most of the best heels are cheered (Y2J, SCSA, Flair, HHH). the fans appreciate the fact that the guy is a phenomenal worker, and boo when they know they are expected to but also cheer the heel.

I think it would be a huge mistake to turn bryan right now, he plays a great heel. Eventually? sure, but why turn a hot heel act right now just because he has fan support? so he can go back to the generic underdog role half the roster does and get lost in the shuffle again?

[MVP!]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/526427_354618431241865_249402671763442_963667_1403 991802_n.jpg

[shawn michaels 82]

Also im unclear where your coming from on the whole wee is "burying" him thing.

I mean, would i have loved to see him lose in a competitive match at Mania? sure.

but the 18 second loss is playing into his new storyline perfectly. For one, it allowed him to give the promo of his career Friday, embrace the fan support while still heeling it up and ending the whole "weasel who hides behind AJ" part of the shtick.

also, they are clearly not just sending bryan to the mid card or something. He announced in his promo he's using his rematch clause, and johnny made it very clear in his promo that he considers Shemus win over bryan tainted and that bryan will be getting another shot at shemus.

I understand that Bryan fans wanted him presented as some sort of dominant heel champion. But thats not the only kind of heel in the world.

EDIT: also since when is being cheered as a heel a bad thing??

most of the best heels are cheered (Y2J, SCSA, Flair, HHH). the fans appreciate the fact that the guy is a phenomenal worker, and boo when they know they are expected to but also cheer the heel.

I think it would be a huge mistake to turn bryan right now, he plays a great heel. Eventually? sure, but why turn a hot heel act right now just because he has fan support? so he can go back to the generic underdog role half the roster does and get lost in the shuffle again?

Guess i hadn't thought about things that way. It does make sense, but i still dislike the 18 secs defeat, and a competitive match wouldn't have hurt. But hey, i like Bryan, i admit i'm not neutral. :D

[The Final Countdown]

Guess i hadn't thought about things that way. It does make sense, but i still dislike the 18 secs defeat, and a competitive match wouldn't have hurt. But hey, i like Bryan, i admit i'm not neutral. :D
The funny thing is, I think the 18 second loss has actually helped him far more than losing the title in a competitive, 8-to-10 minute match would have. I doubt the fans would have been anywhere near as vocal the next night (and apparently on SD too, though I haven't seen it yet) if he'd lost the belt to Sheamus in a legit match.

I definitely want them to keep Bryan heel for now. I've always thought he was better as a heel (see his awesome run with the ROH title in 2006.)

[Target Practice]

Crunching gear change here, but I was discussing this with my brother the other day, and he actually came up with an interesting idea that I'd enjoy seeing.

What happens to Rocky now? He's come out and promo'd that he's not going anywhere, and for now I'll take that at face value and assume that we're probably going to see him at Summerslam next. But against who? The Cena thing is done and dusted, and it looks like he's going to be tied up with Lesnar for the time being. Rocky said he wants a title, which once again you would have to assume is where the 'E will push him next. I can't see Daniel Bryan being a great matchup for Rocky - their styles clash too much for me. So that leaves either CM Punk or Chris Jericho, and frankly, either of those two would be big business, but what would really get my money would be The Rock/CM Punk - the promos would just write themselves, and I think Punk's more straight-talking 'honest' approach to promos would be a fantastic contrast with the Rock's catchphrases and over-the-top style.

Plus, I'd argue (Daniel Bryan aside right now. :p) Punk is the most over guy in the WWE after Cena. The damn thing would sell itself.

[shawn michaels 82]

The funny thing is, I think the 18 second loss has actually helped him far more than losing the title in a competitive, 8-to-10 minute match would have. I doubt the fans would have been anywhere near as vocal the next night (and apparently on SD too, though I haven't seen it yet) if he'd lost the belt to Sheamus in a legit match.

I definitely want them to keep Bryan heel for now. I've always thought he was better as a heel (see his awesome run with the ROH title in 2006.)

I know that the whole 18 secs deal helped him a lot, and i'm glad, but that is because it backfired. It wasn't the the E's intention. And yes, fans were vocal on SD too. But that Miami crowd on Raw...wow! best crowd i've seen in ages on a WWE event.


Crunching gear change here, but I was discussing this with my brother the other day, and he actually came up with an interesting idea that I'd enjoy seeing.

What happens to Rocky now? He's come out and promo'd that he's not going anywhere, and for now I'll take that at face value and assume that we're probably going to see him at Summerslam next. But against who? The Cena thing is done and dusted, and it looks like he's going to be tied up with Lesnar for the time being. Rocky said he wants a title, which once again you would have to assume is where the 'E will push him next. I can't see Daniel Bryan being a great matchup for Rocky - their styles clash too much for me. So that leaves either CM Punk or Chris Jericho, and frankly, either of those two would be big business, but what would really get my money would be The Rock/CM Punk - the promos would just write themselves, and I think Punk's more straight-talking 'honest' approach to promos would be a fantastic contrast with the Rock's catchphrases and over-the-top style.

Plus, I'd argue (Daniel Bryan aside right now. :p) Punk is the most over guy in the WWE after Cena. The damn thing would sell itself.

I think Punk is the more over guy, period, if we exclude Rocky. It looks like Cena is losing some sales momentum too. I read it somewhere, don't remember where, but i'll try to find it.

[Genadi]

It makes absolutely no sense that WWE creative were trying to bury a guy they have been pushing and creating things like this for...

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g55/Costnaza9/yes.jpg

http://www.wweshop.com/item/daniel-bryan-yes-authentic-t-shirt/Men/01-16384

I can also remember years back Warrior "burying" a young up and comer at Mania, his career turned out alright regardless. Everyone except for Lesnar and Goldberg jobbed on their way up. Wrestling fans have been trained to have short memories, I really don't see how the Danielson loss is a big deal. It wasn't a squash, Sheamus didn't reverse his finishing hold or kick out of a big finisher at the 1 count. It was a cocky heel being caught unware in what was a successful attempt to create a Wrestlemania moment. It wasn't a burial plan that backfired, it was a creative idea that worked out far better than anyone in WWE could've hoped for... IMO :)

[Jaysin]

Crunching gear change here, but I was discussing this with my brother the other day, and he actually came up with an interesting idea that I'd enjoy seeing.

What happens to Rocky now? He's come out and promo'd that he's not going anywhere, and for now I'll take that at face value and assume that we're probably going to see him at Summerslam next. But against who? The Cena thing is done and dusted, and it looks like he's going to be tied up with Lesnar for the time being. Rocky said he wants a title, which once again you would have to assume is where the 'E will push him next. I can't see Daniel Bryan being a great matchup for Rocky - their styles clash too much for me. So that leaves either CM Punk or Chris Jericho, and frankly, either of those two would be big business, but what would really get my money would be The Rock/CM Punk - the promos would just write themselves, and I think Punk's more straight-talking 'honest' approach to promos would be a fantastic contrast with the Rock's catchphrases and over-the-top style.

Plus, I'd argue (Daniel Bryan aside right now. :p) Punk is the most over guy in the WWE after Cena. The damn thing would sell itself.

Punk has taken shots at Rock since he came back in the media and on Twitter, so I'd like to think they've been laying the groundwork for it already.

Plus, I'd love to see Punk kick Rock's head in :)

[Astil]

My mark moment: I already purchased that shirt. It's on it's way to my lovely abode soon.

[Teh_Showtime]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/526427_354618431241865_249402671763442_963667_1403 991802_n.jpg

YES!

[Zeel1]

The funny thing is, I think the 18 second loss has actually helped him far more than losing the title in a competitive, 8-to-10 minute match would have. I doubt the fans would have been anywhere near as vocal the next night (and apparently on SD too, though I haven't seen it yet) if he'd lost the belt to Sheamus in a legit match.

I definitely want them to keep Bryan heel for now. I've always thought he was better as a heel (see his awesome run with the ROH title in 2006.)

Kinda reminds me of the Christian situation last year. Everyone hated how he lost before, but it probably ended up benefiting him more than just having a regular short reign, in the long run.

[Basmat01]

It makes absolutely no sense that WWE creative were trying to bury a guy they have been pushing and creating things like this for...

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g55/Costnaza9/yes.jpg

http://www.wweshop.com/item/daniel-bryan-yes-authentic-t-shirt/Men/01-16384

:)

Well the WWE did try to make money from people that hate Cena by making a Cena Sucks T-Shirt.

[bigtplaystew]

Kinda reminds me of the Christian situation last year. Everyone hated how he lost before, but it probably ended up benefiting him more than just having a regular short reign, in the long run.

I was thinking this too. The internet was furious when Christian lost, this board included. But bigger things were obviously around the corner for him.

I get surprised that wrestling fans don't at least wait a little bit to complain about something like this. Give it a few weeks and see where it goes.

[Stennick]

Now THIS is how you book a FIGHT! I'm already sold on Extreme Rules and I couldn't have given a damn ten minutes before this show started. Damn this is good stuff!

[The Final Countdown]

I'm sure the blood wasn't intentional, but it made that whole thing so much better.

[djthefunkchris]

I'm sure the blood wasn't intentional, but it made that whole thing so much better.

If they were trying to hide it, they did a really poor job.... Having Cena have his head above everyone during the fight, close up with camera on it, every time they could it seemed they got the best possible angle for it... Then later, like 10 or 15 minutes later in the show, he shows up without it being wiped off yet.


I really doubt it was not intentional, to be honest.

[The Final Countdown]

...nice job capitalizing on Bryan's unexpected momentum.

[alden]

its odd seeing bill demont *i think that how you spell it* in a suit lol.....i always see him as the laughing man ;)

[Stennick]

Honestly I don't believe there is any DB Momentum. He was in front of a smark crowd in Miami for two nights. There wasn't a single YES chant the entire night from what I gathered.

You have bizzare crowds like that from time to time. Everyone was all like "that'll teach them" and a week later not a single "YES" chant. I'm sure he'll have a few on SD but lets face it the guy is not nearly as popular as everyone wanted to believe he was in Miami.

On a sidenote RAW sucked. The start was hot, how are you going to from a huge chaotic brawl to a bunch of silliness with the Stoodges and eight million video recaps. We got Big Show giving us a recap of last week when he recapped Mania.....really?.....Reeeeeally?

[Wallbanger]

If they were trying to hide it, they did a really poor job.... Having Cena have his head above everyone during the fight, close up with camera on it, every time they could it seemed they got the best possible angle for it... Then later, like 10 or 15 minutes later in the show, he shows up without it being wiped off yet.


I really doubt it was not intentional, to be honest.

If you watch his entrance closely, he's very careful about keeping his jaw muscles taut, particularly on the left side (where Brock tagged him first after the takedown, but never returns to even though he's got plenty of opportunity). Dollars to donuts Cena's got a blood capsule sitting there like a dip of chew; that's why he's not on mike and only says the one line.

Definitely intentional and meant to build up both men - Brock as the dangerous MMA badass and Cena as the man who won't back down even if you knock his teeth down his throat.

[ThatChizzle]

nah, they wouldn't need a blood capsule. 1 stiff punch in the mouth will give you an easy bloody lip. Plus Cena had a swollen mouth when he was talking to Johnny Ace.

[The Final Countdown]

Honestly I don't believe there is any DB Momentum. He was in front of a smark crowd in Miami for two nights. There wasn't a single YES chant the entire night from what I gathered.

You have bizzare crowds like that from time to time. Everyone was all like "that'll teach them" and a week later not a single "YES" chant. I'm sure he'll have a few on SD but lets face it the guy is not nearly as popular as everyone wanted to believe he was in Miami.

On a sidenote RAW sucked. The start was hot, how are you going to from a huge chaotic brawl to a bunch of silliness with the Stoodges and eight million video recaps. We got Big Show giving us a recap of last week when he recapped Mania.....really?.....Reeeeeally?
No momentum at all? Honestly? I saw a ton of "YES" signs in the crowd, and his t-shirt is apparently on backorder after being out for like 2 or 3 days.

I never expected "YES" to continue seeping into every single segment like it did last week, so I'm not surprised by that. That was a unique situation and a unique crowd, like you said. What I'd expected/hoped was that it would keep up during his segments. But he was MIA aside from coming out with everyone else during the pull-apart, so who knows? I'll be interested to see what happens tomorrow, seeing as Smackdown will be live.

And yes, apart from the opening brawl and the Jericho/Punk stuff, the show was pretty meh. Pretty big letdown after last week's show.

[djthefunkchris]

If you watch his entrance closely, he's very careful about keeping his jaw muscles taut, particularly on the left side (where Brock tagged him first after the takedown, but never returns to even though he's got plenty of opportunity). Dollars to donuts Cena's got a blood capsule sitting there like a dip of chew; that's why he's not on mike and only says the one line.

Definitely intentional and meant to build up both men - Brock as the dangerous MMA badass and Cena as the man who won't back down even if you knock his teeth down his throat.

nah, they wouldn't need a blood capsule. 1 stiff punch in the mouth will give you an easy bloody lip. Plus Cena had a swollen mouth when he was talking to Johnny Ace.
Perhaps, but what Wallbanger said I said something very similar to my wife. "Look at the way he's talking, he's got blood capsule or something there." She agreed. What Wallbanger said was true, as far as how he was holding his mouth the whole time he was talking... That "fat lip" you thought you saw, was probably the capsule he was trying to hide between gum and lip.

@The Final Countdown, I honestly didn't like the Punk/Jericho thing... Actually, I liked it before the Beer all over the place. Just isn't sitting with me, felt like it dragged on, and felt it the segment was overall sucky. I'm not really interested in Jericho spraying alcohol all over Cena, because I honestly know that wouldn't do anything at all... and Punk isn't a good enough actor to make me think he's going to get upset because he smells like his dad. They really shouldn't go this route... well, I don't mind the route, the taunting about his family, etc.. It's just the way they have Jericho going about it that just isn't selling me anything.

[milamber]

I laughed when Cena interrupted Lesnar and slapped him. I thought the entire roster pulling them apart was overkill though until they showed what Lesnar did to Cena's face!

I hope they keep Ziggler/Swagger & Santino/Brodus together as legitimate tag teams.

Tensai v Tatsu - I like that Tensai demolishes his opponents instead of going for the quick pin. They also addressed the fact that he's not asian for anyone who actually gave a crap. Tatsu should be on SD where he'd get more matches.

Punk v Henry - Pre-match promo with Jericho was great. Punk acting heelish to keep his title against Henry was great. Post-match alcohol bath was
great. Shame Henry goofed later on saying he would be the next "World Heavyweight Champion".

Three Stooges - Are you serious, bro? I did chuckle at the WWE's 3 Stooges sign but I was as excited about seeing them as the crowd and Kane were.

Otunga v Cena - Cena was funny telling Johnny to get off the phone and rubbing Otunga's oil off his body. And what was with Cole defending Cena? Strange. Lesnar kicking Cena in the nuts would have made a lot of people happy.

Raw was light on quality wrestling this week but the storylines are building up for Extreme Rules. I predict a few brutal matches at ER.

[Wallbanger]

Perhaps, but what Wallbanger said I said something very similar to my wife. "Look at the way he's talking, he's got blood capsule or something there." She agreed. What Wallbanger said was true, as far as how he was holding his mouth the whole time he was talking... That "fat lip" you thought you saw, was probably the capsule he was trying to hide between gum and lip.

And it's not mutually exclusive that Cena would have a swollen lip from getting tagged and use stage methods to enhance the bloodiness. I think they just wanted to be sure to get the image they wanted in the pull-apart brawl.

In other words, we can all be right. :D

Other than that the only real highlight of the show was the Punk/Jericho angle, though that was somewhat diminished by Henry's verbal botch.

Trying to get back into watching the 'E now that we're post-WM. Newer faces are interesting but no one has really caught my eye yet.

[Stennick]

Honestly I really don't care how the blood got there. It looked real and beyond that it was a great visual and one that may find its way to the mainstream media. Kind of surprised they're going right for Brock/Cena at Extreme Rules.

[The Final Countdown]

Honestly I really don't care how the blood got there. It looked real and beyond that it was a great visual and one that may find its way to the mainstream media. Kind of surprised they're going right for Brock/Cena at Extreme Rules.
Totally agree. Whether it was planned or not, it looked awesome and added so much to that fight.

[djthefunkchris]

Anyone get the little "shot" Cena gave Rock during his exchange with John L.?

Something about, :so you want legitimacy, you think I'm just a performer, etc... that person just left. I like hitting, and I like being hit!"

Not word for word, because I was looking at how he was holding his mouth more then anything during that... wondering why he didn't wipe the blood off his mouth by now.

Something tells me Rock vs. Cena isn't over yet.

[LoNdOn]

Anybody else enjoy the fact that Del Rio had a cover over the driver's seat in the car to avoid getting baby oil on the leather! :D

I quite enjoyed the Hulkastooges skit. Really didn't think I would but there you go. That guy sold the chokeslam better than a lot of WWE's current roster (no joke)!

[crownsy]

Honestly I don't believe there is any DB Momentum. He was in front of a smark crowd in Miami for two nights. There wasn't a single YES chant the entire night from what I gathered.



You gathered incorrectly. There was an audible Yes chant during the intial brawl and during the end, which is saying something since they were muting the audio with pip'd in boo's since the crowd was exploding for brock after the Low blow and F-5. Not bad considering he wasen't even on the show, ya know?

Like it was said above, no one is expecting the crowd to chant it non stop in every segment, but how anyone can argue that DB doesn't have a ton of heel momentum right now...i don't get it.

[juggaloninjalee]

Anybody else enjoy the fact that Del Rio had a cover over the driver's seat in the car to avoid getting baby oil on the leather! :D

I quite enjoyed the Hulkastooges skit. Really didn't think I would but there you go. That guy sold the chokeslam better than a lot of WWE's current roster (no joke)!

I enjoyed all of RAW pretty much. You know that guy used to work for MAD TV and was put in a Bret Hart sharpshooter on the show back in the 90s. He is a huge wrestling fan. I feel bad for him getting booed the whole time.

You gathered incorrectly. There was an audible Yes chant during the intial brawl and during the end, which is saying something since they were muting the audio with pip'd in boo's since the crowd was exploding for brock after the Low blow and F-5. Not bad considering he wasen't even on the show, ya know?

Like it was said above, no one is expecting the crowd to chant it non stop in every segment, but how anyone can argue that DB doesn't have a ton of heel momentum right now...i don't get it.

It sucks that the WWE is killing DBs momentum by not using him and pushing him right now. The yes thing could get over huge and be something that is still being chanted in 5 years much like Ric Flairs Woooo for knife edge chops.

[djthefunkchris]

@Crownsy: Are you talking about Raw or Smackdown. The reason I ask is because I watched almost the whole show of Raw last night, and I didn't notice everything you noticed. If so, are you sure, or are you speculating that's what happened?

Obviously I have hoped for the "Yes" chants, and cheering of DB to continue to "force" a little change in WWE creative, I still want him as a heel and all.. but I really want everyone behind DB just to see what happens with him. He is so like able to me, and I feel he could open up more doors then what has already been opened up by the likes of people like CM Punk, etc.

@jugg... Do you really think they are trying to kill it? I honestly thought they would overlook it for now to be able to keep their current stories going, and be able to make adjustments later to take advantage of things...> Like maybe have something similar happen to him again, only plan for that kind of reaction.

[djthefunkchris]

Something I was thinking about while watching Raw...

You know, it doesn't matter who beats Cena or who he beats, I don't think he will ever be the Heel he's meant to be. Quite frankly, if he acted more "Heelish" he would end up being a Face, and I can't figure out what it is they want him to be.

Ok... Dj's lost it again. He's referring to John Cena as a heel... Must be an accident. No accident, I really think this is the "best" heel we are going to see from him. The discussion of the piped in boos and cheers that crownsy brought up made me think this way for some reason, and it makes more sense to me now.

To me Cena has turned into a kind of Jericho type heel. He will always be "above" everyone else, and everyone will hate him for it. He won't get mad and go off, as that would make him a "face" more then likely. "This is the Cena we want to see" when he teases with a promo that sounds attitudinal... but he won't "stick" to it, because then he becomes the "Face".

What better "heel" could they have, then someone like Cena doing such good things outside of Wrestling, being a favorite on talk shows and Make a Wish, etc... then step into the ring and make everyone hate him by saying "I know, you think I should be upset. I'm not going to let that bother me though. I rise ABOVE that, and will OVERCOME." HEAT!!!!!!!!!! Stay stale, keep doing everything everyone complains about, and stay "heel" so that everyone that goes up against you get's a good reaction, and hopefully people get into "them" beating you enough to get them "over". Don't "embrace the hate". Don't get mad, don't get upset. So you got a bloody mouth by Lesnar, "Rise Above" that, and continue. DON'T improve your moveset, it's one of the things working for this. When booking a match that Cena win's, make sure that brawler's get the 1,2,3, and that Mat Wrestler's "Tap Out". Do this and people will hate it... except the young kids that idolize you, and women.

I don't know if I would change a thing with Cena, because it's so obvious it doesn't matter who he goes up against, that people will pay just to see him lose.

[crownsy]

@Crownsy: Are you talking about Raw or Smackdown. The reason I ask is because I watched almost the whole show of Raw last night, and I didn't notice everything you noticed. If so, are you sure, or are you speculating that's what happened?

Obviously I have hoped for the "Yes" chants, and cheering of DB to continue to "force" a little change in WWE creative, I still want him as a heel and all.. but I really want everyone behind DB just to see what happens with him. He is so like able to me, and I feel he could open up more doors then what has already been opened up by the likes of people like CM Punk, etc.

@jugg... Do you really think they are trying to kill it? I honestly thought they would overlook it for now to be able to keep their current stories going, and be able to make adjustments later to take advantage of things...> Like maybe have something similar happen to him again, only plan for that kind of reaction.

I heard an audible "yes!"yes!"yes" chant during the crazy brawl at the beginning, and could have sworn i heard one during the end too. though i haven't rewatched it, so i coul dbe wrong about the end.

@jugg they gave him the 10 oclock slot and he gave an outstanding promo to keep the momentum going, plus ace mentioned that he's getting a rematch in the shemus promo...not sure how else you want them to push him.

I mean, i guess he coul dhave been used on Raw but unless your name is randy orton, it's normally bad for your heat to be on raw as a smack down guy. Normally means being in a toss away match or jobbing to a raw guy.

[djthefunkchris]

For those worried about Daniel Bryan, I really "doubt" they aren't going to utilize this stuff. I'm thinking they have lots of plans for him in the future...

Put it this way, it's the same thing that happened with CM Punk. Everyone felt like they were going to miss an opportunity, everyone thought they were "jobbing" him out, etc... Yet he defeats John Cena twice to retain, defeats Chris Jericho, and still has the title. If you were to go back in time, and tell everyone that complains exactly what was going to happen with CM Punk, no one would believe you. Yet they did it.

I have a strong feeling that this Daniel Bryan thing has just begun.

[liontamer]

not sure if it's been posted yet but just saw scott hall got arrested for beating his girlfriend, and it was right after he finished another run through WWEs wellness program.

[juggaloninjalee]

I was referring to the pipe in of crowd noise to drown out the yes chants on Smackdown and this past Raw that someone mentioned. I don't think WWE is burying him or sending him back to midcard. I just want them to run with what has happened. The shirt they released was just a quick throw together shirt. People have photoshopped better ones and before that one even came out.

The loss at Mania didn't even bother me that much as I wanted to see where they were going with this. I am still waiting to see where things are going but hopefully they don't miss a great opportunity with him while the crowds are hot for him.

He's been pushed farther than I ever thoughts they would so as long as he is used regularly I am happy at this point. I do think he could one day be one of the most memorable top guys this company ever had though. He has charisma that many people under estimate.

[djthefunkchris]

I was referring to the pipe in of crowd noise to drown out the yes chants on Smackdown and this past Raw that someone mentioned. I don't think WWE is burying him or sending him back to midcard. I just want them to run with what has happened. The shirt they released was just a quick throw together shirt. People have photoshopped better ones and before that one even came out.

The loss at Mania didn't even bother me that much as I wanted to see where they were going with this. I am still waiting to see where things are going but hopefully they don't miss a great opportunity with him while the crowds are hot for him.

He's been pushed farther than I ever thoughts they would so as long as he is used regularly I am happy at this point. I do think he could one day be one of the most memorable top guys this company ever had though. He has charisma that many people under estimate.

Yeah, I agree big time on the charisma part. Without really trying to sound corny, he kind of oozes it even as a heel... Kind of like a devilish grin that lets everyone in on what he's doing, and it's also a little part of in-ring psychology, performed outside of the ring as well.

He's definitely a ball of dynamite, a package of talent... small package is all. His size makes him a definite like-able character for children (when Face, like Mysterio sort of), and his skill makes him believably get over much bigger opponents, I just can't say enough of this guy to be honest. I liked him before, but as a heel, I'm really liking him. I feel like he held back quite a bit during his face run.... and even now it "feels" like he's waiting for the right moment to shine.

I don't think they have to do anything "right now" though.. as I feel they can repeat this stuff, make it look real, get the same sort of reaction, and THEN take advantage of it, when they are ready for it.

There is so much they have been doing right in the last couple of years, that it's getting hard for me to believe anything is not already "Planned" though. This thing that happened at Wrestlemania... I'm starting to think they planned it to happen and at most, got a better reaction from it then they were expecting. Every step of the way there was someone shouting "They Blew It", but everything had to be planned for it to end up so perfect.

[The Final Countdown]

Earlier today, I was thinking "How cool would it be if they had a Piper's Pit with Daniel Bryan on this Legends episode?"

Mind=blown.

[djthefunkchris]

Earlier today, I was thinking "How cool would it be if they had a Piper's Pit with Daniel Bryan on this Legends episode?"

Mind=blown.

On twitter, Piper's talked about Bryan. I think he's a legit fan, and probably wanted to do that with Bryan.

[codey]

Kane's family reunion line had me cracking up. It reminded of old school Arnold Schwarzenegger one liners with the cheesiness of it!

[BHK1978]

Watching the Mean Gene/Sheamus vs. Del Rio/Daniel Bryan match gave me a sense of, as Yogi Berra would say, "Déjà vu all over again." I still remember watching one of those videos from the 1980's where they had him tagging with Hogan.

I am just glad this time they did not have us watch him training.

[codey]

Sheamus as a face isn't ad, but face Sheamus with mic time is muy terrible. These boy scout promos of his are cringe worthy.

[milamber]

Johnny Ace making Sheamus his b***h was funny. $500,000 fine :)

Ryback is intense but he can't squash local talent forever.

Usos v Kidd & Slater - Good use of some underrated SD midcarders.

Bryan on Piper's Pit - "18 seconds" chants and Yes signs! 2 our of 3 falls match at ER! Bryan's smug look when AJ sucked up to him! Piper telling Bryan his "no list"! Great segment.

Weak SD as expected but I'm enjoying the build-up to Extreme Rules.

[ChrisKid]

haven't watch SD yet but Three Stooges (never heard of them) were awful on RAW, only positive is i am really starting to legit hate Chris Jericho in the Punk/Jericho fued

[codey]

Wait, you've never heard of The Three Stooges!? They're comedy legends!

[crownsy]

santino looks like he could pull of the legit fighter very well....why stick him with a comedy act?

Two big reasons:

1) because they have about 5-6 guys who do the legit fighter act who look more like killing machines

2) he is insanely over with the live crowd with his comedy act. He's a valuable cool down act for the crowd in between "serious" matches.

[Stennick]

So everyone is in agreeance this Foley/Ambrose feud is the best thing in the WWE right? The promos that could come from both sides of this are great. In a way its what Flair/Foley should have been if Flair wasn't a crazy, sixty year old bastard who I think long ago forgot this is a work. Anyway Ambrose this kid has it I think.

[djthefunkchris]

So everyone is in agreeance this Foley/Ambrose feud is the best thing in the WWE right? The promos that could come from both sides of this are great. In a way its what Flair/Foley should have been if Flair wasn't a crazy, sixty year old bastard who I think long ago forgot this is a work. Anyway Ambrose this kid has it I think.

lol.

My serious thoughts on the hottest thing right now... The abuse of Cena.

I already said I believe Cena is a "HEEL" right now... and it's opposite what people are thinking.... "For a face, he sure gets boo'd a lot!" I say it's opposite, for a "Heel" he sure gets cheered a lot.

I see him getting his butt kicked over and over this year. Perhaps by next Wrestlemania they will turn him Face. Right now though, I think he's been playing a unique version of a heel. He doesn't outright say "You all are idiots, your opinion's don't matter!"... no, He says "I respect each and every one of you, love me or hate me, that's your view and I respect that. I know how you want me to react, but I'm above that." Which in itself generates heat. Isn't he basically saying "Your opinion doesn't count because I'm staying the same!" Right now, the way his character is... Lesnar could go to his home, beat up his whole family and sleep with his wife, and Cena would "Rise Above" all that, and say something like "I still respect Lesnar."

So, to me the hottest thing right now is the destruction of John Cena. That's whats going to sell seats right now. Have him lose until people get bored of it, then change him face.

[Teh_Showtime]

I don't think Cena is a heel in any since of the word. Their actions determine the character, not crowd reaction. Not many heels butt heads with the head authority, even legit heels who didnt cheat.

[djthefunkchris]

I don't think Cena is a heel in any since of the word. Their actions determine the character, not crowd reaction. Not many heels butt heads with the head authority, even legit heels who didnt cheat.

I say he is a "modern day" heel. A new type, that isn't obvious about it. He does everything "Right", he's a boy scout dufus, the type of Superman everyone hates.... perfect in every way. I say he's been playing that part for over a year, intentionally.

It's began to be so obvious to me, that I cannot fathom the whole WWE creative team to not see it themselves.... I (and just about everyone on here) has ton's of idea's that would have made Cena get more cheers then the person he's up against, no matter if it's Lesnar, Rock, whomever... IF he would just get upset and "attitudinal" for more then one segment. We all know he can play that role 100% of the time, he has in the past. The whole reason people want to see him as a heel (thinking he's a face right now) is because they want to see that part of him. I say... that part of him is going to be a face.

It's all part of the plan, it has to be. Over and over, now is the time to have Cena lose more then he has ever lost before... Then if they want him to stay heel, he will "Rise Above"...

It's no different then Chris Jericho, just not as obvious. Everytime he says "No, I'm not going to act like that!" Cena is telling us "I am better then you!"

[bigtplaystew]

But people cheer Cena.

[Zeel1]

So he's a bad guy because he's too much of a good guy to be a bad guy? :p

[djthefunkchris]

But people cheer Cena. Yeah, same way people cheer other's that are heels... He's playing the part though, just in a different way.

So he's a bad guy because he's too much of a good guy to be a bad guy? :p
I've read twitters of WWE people talking, IWC forums, everyone knows what they think it would "Take" to make Cena into a more like-able face... But WWE does the exact Opposite. Think about it... you think they really don't know what's going on? You think they don't "Intentionally" force him this way on us? I think that's one of the biggest complaints "They keep forcing him in our face!"

Look at how he talks to us... "I know what you want, but I'm not going that route... I'm a better man then that!" What's that really saying? "I don't care what you want, because you don't matter. I am going to keep doing things this way, because I am BETTER Then you!" That's what he is saying.

As I said, at this point, someone could go sleep with his wife, and he would just say something like "Well, she must have seen something in him... something I'm lacking. It's not his fault, it's my fault. I can only try to do better next time."

He is the "Super" boyscout... The Superman comicbook fans hate... He can do no wrong. He's perfect to the extent of being a complete bore, and fans can't wait to see someone beat him up for it. What makes it worse, is that after his loss, he will just say (and I'll add in the meaning).. "Well, I'm not going to make excuses as other's would do... Last night, the better man won. I congratulate him.. NO no, no need to get upset." Translation "I will not sink down to the levels of people that are lower then I am. I am the better man for not doing this, and even though I lost last night, I am the better man tonight."

This is such a gift horse too... Maybe better then Face Cena, because he's the same guy, just more of it. Kids will still love him, because of the way he words his promo's. He will still sell merchandise for this same reason... but the pluss side is that they can send any heel or face into a match with him, have them win, and no matter who it is, people will pay to see him keep losing. I don't know how long they can do it for, but I would get every superstar I could think of lined up to beat him in some sort of PPV match, and watch the money role in... Heck, if I can't get anyone, I'd just use other's on the roster, everyone from Big Show (CM Punks already been there done that), Kane, Undertaker, HHH, freakin' Sheamus... They could have Brutus Clay whip up on him if Clay can ever work more then a three minute match. Mark Henry, Orton, etc... Maybe bring in Goldberg if the guy wants to come back for one more, etc... Just so many things they could do with this.

Thinking in this way has opened up so many options in my head for what they could do with him now. He's totally hated, except when he gets a little spunk (which as I said, is never more then one segment long) going, and just a few sparks here and there to get people motivated, and after the loss... "The better man won last night. I'd like to shake his hand on a job well done, he got the job done!"

Just have to be careful not to make him look totally crippled though... But I've watched him carry more then his share of Match's so I'm certain they can do this.

[Zeel1]

If he really thought he was so superior and perfect I kind of doubt he would go "He was better than me" or "She saw something in him I don't have".

That you can corrupt what he's saying doesn't really mean much, you can do that with basically anybody. For example I saw a post on reddit of a guy asking for advice on what to do to help this one girl that he believes to be an anorexic. He didn't know her, but kept noticing her at a gym he went to, and got worried as she looked so dangerously skinny. But because he sort of insinuated that he was fat somewhere in the post, someone harped on him in response, saying as though she knew that the girl wasn't truly anorexic, but instead totally healthy and that he was simply projecting his insecurities onto her. It doesn't matter how pure something really is, if you try hard enough you'll figure out a way to bastardize it.

And doesn't the way you look at it kind of make the fans look bad, atleast kayfabe-wise? I mean it's basically them saying "Corrupt yourself for us, or we won't like you." And when he refuses to let what basically amounts to peer pressure compromise who he is, they act like that's a bad thing for him to do, and enjoy seeing him get hurt because of it? I'm not saying they don't capitalize on that - I'm sure they have, and probably should, but wow do they come across badly when you look at it like that... :p

[Blackman]

Cena's an interesting 'experiment', that is the least we can say. It's been almost a decade in the making now, it's indeed time to reap the benefits and job him out to a lot of people and make him some sort of bitter heel. Ok, now I'm joking, they'll never do that. :p

[bigtplaystew]

Yea while I might disagree with the specific wording of "Cena is a heel", because to me he isn't, I can at least read the rest of what he's saying and see where it's coming from.

My side of it is that WWE's doing different things with Cena because they have to. The classic "I will not give up! I will stand for what is right!" type face he'd been for a few years there needed some tweaking and they knew it.

So they are leading him in a different direction. Now he's got a little more "Attitude". In reality, we might see a side of Cena that reminds of his former days as a heel, but I think the goal of WWE booking has been to get him cheers, not boos. To me, that is ultimately the difference between heel and face.

[djthefunkchris]

Perhaps... But I have a feeling Cena's going to stay exactly the way he is while they make money off of him losing over and over again at the PPV's.

What I like about it, is the fact that it doesn't matter if they put him up against a face, a heel, whomever... There's going to be people rooting for whomever is against him, and that's where the money is.... No matter what, the Heel (or face) will get cheer's against Cena.

Far as if he's a "Heel" character... No. He's playing a "Hated" face... I guess I'll never be able to get my point exactly through the way I was hoping to. I come to the conclusion after thinking about WWE creative and what they MUST know... Which is exactly how to make Cena a face everyone can get into... They have to know, which means they are purposely NOT doing it, and in doing so, mean's that Cena "Knows" as a character, and He's purposely NOT doing it... Because he is above us.

Probably still not getting what I'm saying through, but I do see some people are giving it a bit more thought then at first.

[Genadi]

Perhaps... But I have a feeling Cena's going to stay exactly the way he is while they make money off of him losing over and over again at the PPV's.

What I like about it, is the fact that it doesn't matter if they put him up against a face, a heel, whomever... There's going to be people rooting for whomever is against him, and that's where the money is.... No matter what, the Heel (or face) will get cheer's against Cena.

Far as if he's a "Heel" character... No. He's playing a "Hated" face... I guess I'll never be able to get my point exactly through the way I was hoping to. I come to the conclusion after thinking about WWE creative and what they MUST know... Which is exactly how to make Cena a face everyone can get into... They have to know, which means they are purposely NOT doing it, and in doing so, mean's that Cena "Knows" as a character, and He's purposely NOT doing it... Because he is above us.

Probably still not getting what I'm saying through, but I do see some people are giving it a bit more thought then at first.

This guy gets it ^^^

[Moe Hunter]

So, Jericho was on the Adam Carolla Show yesterday - absolutely fantastic! He's very candid, has some funny stories to tell, and thrives in the improv atmosphere of the show. Definitely worth a listen!

http://www.adamcarolla.com/chris-jericho/

[milamber]

Punk v Henry - Good title match to kick off Raw. Punk and Henry worked well together and the match was fairly even. Chair shot from the turnbuckle was a cool finishing move. Punk got plenty of "Yes" chants. Punk v Jericho Chicago Street Fight at ER -- hell yes!

Lesnar interview was awesome.

Kofi: "You're stupid." Bryan: "Yes! Yes! Yes!" :)

Johnny Ace trying to replace the Cena era with the Lesnar era. I like where the storyline's going. Good to see Cena get intense, something that was lacking during most of the the Rock feud. I like the People Power gimmick. Ace is like a smarmy politician who thinks everyone loves him.

Cena v Tensai - I really dug this match. Cena had to struggle to mount any effective offense and he put Tensai over big time. Keep Tensai's matches under 15 minutes and he could be a dominant heel.

Raw was great this week. I really hope the buy rate for Extreme Rules is way up from last year because the build up has me fracking excited.

[ChrisKid]

RAW was good because the crowd was really into it, with the Yes! chants and stuff like that, the bits i didn't like were Jerry Lawler's heel (sounding) commentary, how can you not like the Yes! chants?
And the tag champs losing pretty quickly (like 2 minutes) other than that RAW was good

[ampulator]

Perhaps... But I have a feeling Cena's going to stay exactly the way he is while they make money off of him losing over and over again at the PPV's.

What I like about it, is the fact that it doesn't matter if they put him up against a face, a heel, whomever... There's going to be people rooting for whomever is against him, and that's where the money is.... No matter what, the Heel (or face) will get cheer's against Cena.

Far as if he's a "Heel" character... No. He's playing a "Hated" face... I guess I'll never be able to get my point exactly through the way I was hoping to. I come to the conclusion after thinking about WWE creative and what they MUST know... Which is exactly how to make Cena a face everyone can get into... They have to know, which means they are purposely NOT doing it, and in doing so, mean's that Cena "Knows" as a character, and He's purposely NOT doing it... Because he is above us.

Probably still not getting what I'm saying through, but I do see some people are giving it a bit more thought then at first.
Except most people won't get it, because the kind of audience the WWE wants doesn't do subtlety.

[soxfan93]

RAW was good because the crowd was really into it, with the Yes! chants and stuff like that, the bits i didn't like were Jerry Lawler's heel (sounding) commentary, how can you not like the Yes! chants?
And the tag champs losing pretty quickly (like 2 minutes) other than that RAW was good

Really? Because I thought it was awful. Bryan/Kofi was good, Punk/Henry was okay, Cena's promo was solid, but that was it. Everything else felt like a waste of time.

Except most people won't get it, because the kind of audience the WWE wants doesn't do subtlety.

Exactly. There's no subtlety here. WWE doesn't know how to do "grey area-" type of things. Cena's a face, Lesnar's a heel, Bryan's a heel. That's how the storylines are written.

It's like making the case that Sheamus is a heel because he took advantage of Bryan. Not even close, he's a face.

[BurningHamster]

Really? Because I thought it was awful. Bryan/Kofi was good, Punk/Henry was okay, Cena's promo was solid, but that was it. Everything else felt like a waste of time.

Something good, something okay and something solid in amongst the waste of time? That is above average for WWE.

[soxfan93]

Something good, something okay and something solid in amongst the waste of time? That is above average for WWE.

Fair enough. But just because it's "above average for WWE" doesn't make it good.

[LoNdOn]

Spoiler below

Antonio Cesaro debuted on Smackdown!

I was at the event live. Only me and my friend reacted by cheering.

[soxfan93]

I read about that. I can't wait to see Smackdown.

[BurningHamster]

Fair enough. But just because it's "above average for WWE" doesn't make it good.

Eh, people have crummy judgment and their opinions are all wrong. What can you do though?

[Moe Hunter]

It's like making the case that Sheamus is a heel because he took advantage of Bryan. Not even close, he's a face.

He also purposely kicked a referee in the face.

[soxfan93]

He also purposely kicked a referee in the face.

He was screwed, therefore, he had a reason. He was simply holding the referee accountable for his actions. It wasn't like The Awesome Truth attacking Chioda (iirc) back in October, which was for absolutely no reason other to "act heelish."

[juggaloninjalee]

Hogan in the 80s used to gauges eyes, and sometimes beat up a referee if he felt he got screwed.

[soxfan93]

Exactly, that's how wrestling works. Faces can act heelish and get cheered, heels can act face-ish and get called out for "sucking up".

[djthefunkchris]

To me it's pretty obvious they are keeping both Sheamus and Bryan in a state of where they could go either way at any minute. Right now Bryan is the heel, Sheamus is the face, but it could easily swap without either one of them changing much. This is WWE, where face/heel divide hasn't been strong in 30 years anyways.

[Hashasheen]

To me it's pretty obvious they are keeping both Sheamus and Bryan in a state of where they could go either way at any minute. Right now Bryan is the heel, Sheamus is the face, but it could easily swap without either one of them changing much. This is WWE, where face/heel divide hasn't been strong in 30 years anyways.

... I'm sorry, what?

[soxfan93]

... I'm sorry, what?

Yeah, really. Somebody hasn't been watching the product.

[Astil]

Compared to the 80s, I agree with DJ actually.

[soxfan93]

Compared to the 80s, I agree with DJ actually.

By that you mean that they didn't ride around with each other? The product itself is exactly the same: face vs. heel, very rarely overlapping.

[Astil]

By that you mean that they didn't ride around with each other? The product itself is exactly the same: face vs. heel, very rarely overlapping.

Faces act like heels. Heels act like faces. Didn't happen in the 80s

[Self]

That's not a WWE thing. That's a modern society thing. It's not even that modern. Everyone loves a bad boy.

Personally, I don't necessarily consider attacking a referee a 'heelish' thing to do. I consider a heel action to be something done with the intention of being booed. If The Miz kicks a referee in the face for no reason, he's doing it to be booed. If Sheamus kicks a referee in the face because he just got screwed by said referee, he's doing it to be cheered. It's not about the action, it's all about context, and the person doing it. I don't believe Steve Austin acted heelish during his entire run on top, because everything he did was intended to make drunken rednecks and rambunctious teens go "Yay".

The Daniel Bryan/Sheamus thing is one of those situations where fans aren't doing what they're supposed to. On paper, Daniel Bryan is doing heelish things in my eyes, but the fans aren't going with it. There's no muddled intent. It's just not working out like WWE scripted it, which happens sometimes in all entertainment.

[Astil]

That's not a WWE thing. That's a modern society thing. It's not even that modern. Everyone loves a bad boy.

Personally, I don't necessarily consider attacking a referee a 'heelish' thing to do. I consider a heel action to be something done with the intention of being booed. If The Miz kicks a referee in the face for no reason, he's doing it to be booed. If Sheamus kicks a referee in the face because he just got screwed by said referee, he's doing it to be cheered. It's not about the action, it's all about context, and the person doing it. I don't believe Steve Austin acted heelish during his entire run on top, because everything he did was intended to make drunken rednecks and rambunctious teens go "Yay".

The Daniel Bryan/Sheamus thing is one of those situations where fans aren't doing what they're supposed to. On paper, Daniel Bryan is doing heelish things in my eyes, but the fans aren't going with it. There's no muddled intent. It's just not working out like WWE scripted it, which happens sometimes in all entertainment.

What's your opinion of Cena playing to the boos?

[djthefunkchris]

By that you mean that they didn't ride around with each other? The product itself is exactly the same: face vs. heel, very rarely overlapping.

They stay on the edge, where it wouldn't take anything to slip from one side to the other. A "medium" heel/face divide at best. You still have good guys and bad guys, just the line isn't as clear at times.

@Self, you don't have tons of T-Shirts and stuff made if you didn't plan for it. They know exactly what they are doing here, they know more then we do, and they probably expected that reaction being where they were. I don't expected they knew how big the reaction would be, but everyone is playing up to it perfectly (or playing down to it to encourage it more).

So yeah... The divide is weak at best. It's all a shades of grey right now.

[Self]

At times there has been an element to Bret Hart's "very very pro Canadian" gimmick to John Cena. He's simultaneously trying to appeal to one section of the crowd, while turning against another. Only unlike Bret, both sections of the crowd are in the same building at once. So it's trickier. Trying to be the hero that audiences want to see victorious, while convincing another audience to pay to see him get his ass kicked.

Although personally, I consider Cena to be babyface, in that 99% of his actions are dedicated to being liked. It's just failing with certain members of the crowd.

[Astil]

At times there has been an element to Bret Hart's "very very pro Canadian" gimmick to John Cena. He's simultaneously trying to appeal to one section of the crowd, while turning against another. Only unlike Bret, both sections of the crowd are in the same building at once. So it's trickier. Trying to be the hero that audiences want to see victorious, while convincing another audience to pay to see him get his ass kicked.

Although personally, I consider Cena to be babyface, in that 99% of his actions are dedicated to being liked. It's just failing with certain members of the crowd.

I like that metaphor, although it's comments like "you think today is the day I'll snap" and such that make me see what DJ's saying. not agree per se, but I can at least see it.

[djthefunkchris]

At times there has been an element to Bret Hart's "very very pro Canadian" gimmick to John Cena. He's simultaneously trying to appeal to one section of the crowd, while turning against another. Only unlike Bret, both sections of the crowd are in the same building at once. So it's trickier. Trying to be the hero that audiences want to see victorious, while convincing another audience to pay to see him get his ass kicked.

Although personally, I consider Cena to be babyface, in that 99% of his actions are dedicated to being liked. It's just failing with certain members of the crowd.
I was actually talking about the Daniel Bryan situation, but I'll comment on that again, lol.
I like that metaphor, although it's comments like "you think today is the day I'll snap" and such that make me see what DJ's saying. not agree per se, but I can at least see it.

/nod. He teases to show the side that HE knows (and thus fore, WWE creative has to know) the crowd wants to see... Exactly what would make everyone cheer for his character.

Yet he tells us in the next phrase "Well, that's not me. I will overcome. I will rise above." So taking what Self said as the goal, he is basically telling the kids and women or whomever is the people cheering him on "I'm still your guy" and at the same time telling everyone else "Your opinion doesn't matter, I'm better then YOU!" I don't see it changing till the whole crowd is booing him.

That's why if I were WWE creative right now, I would put John's head on a silver platter for everyone over and over again. The people that cheer him I don't ever see changing, at least not all at once. It's going to be a perfect formula, a gold mine even, to have him lose to every major star they can find til' it become unbelievable. Basically do a MVP to him in a much bigger scale. He doesn't have to lose on the TV show, but at the PPV's, this is the time for them to have him lose.

They could have this going on at every PPV, and continue the stories with other's like Punk and Bryan without having to worry about if they can sell tickets or not.... as Cena getting his butt kicked by big name stars should sell the tickets for them. Then finally bleeding over into the title stories when they have no more people to beat up on Cena.

EDIT: To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they did a story line where a few people want to kick Cena's butt, and they have them go one on one to see who gets to beat up Cena next.

[Hyde Hill]

Can't beat Cena too much or many of his fans will stop believing in him. With both the Bryan and Cena thing it really depends how much credit you are giving creative or not.

[eayragt]

@Self, you don't have tons of T-Shirts and stuff made if you didn't plan for it. They know exactly what they are doing here, they know more then we do, and they probably expected that reaction being where they were. I don't expected they knew how big the reaction would be, but everyone is playing up to it perfectly (or playing down to it to encourage it more).



But they didn't have tons of tshirts made, they reacted to Bryan's reactions and then made a shirt, which is hard to get held of because they weren't anticipating making any.

And the anti Cena tshirts... well, that came about 4 years after he started getting booed.

[djthefunkchris]

But they didn't have tons of tshirts made, they reacted to Bryan's reactions and then made a shirt, which is hard to get held of because they weren't anticipating making any.

And the anti Cena tshirts... well, that came about 4 years after he started getting booed.

I heard they had tons of "Yes Yes Yes" shirts made before Wrestlemania, but I might have been miss-informed. Almost positive they had them for Raw the very next day though. I seriously doubt they called someone up late at night and said "Hey, we need these shirts made by tomorrow!!" although I guess they could have.

I'm just watching the show as far as Cena is concerned... T-Shirts or no T-Shirts, I know he's a money machine as far as selling stuff goes. Cena's just something I figure has been going on for so long that they have to be using everything to their advantage at this point, as it's completely obvious they know what would get everyone to cheer for him. They are purposely avoiding that, although they will tease us from time to time.

[Jaysin]

They added Ladder Match 2:Crash and Burn to Netflix. Watching that now. Hosted by Christian and the first match is Razor vs HBK at Wrestlemania X.

They also added the Bret/Shawn dvd.

My day is set

[TakerNGN74]

They added Ladder Match 2:Crash and Burn to Netflix. Watching that now. Hosted by Christian and the first match is Razor vs HBK at Wrestlemania X.

They also added the Bret/Shawn dvd.

My day is set

The Bret/Shawn DVD is amazing.

[Hyde Hill]

I heard they had tons of "Yes Yes Yes" shirts made before Wrestlemania, but I might have been miss-informed. Almost positive they had them for Raw the very next day though. I seriously doubt they called someone up late at night and said "Hey, we need these shirts made by tomorrow!!" although I guess they could have.

I'm just watching the show as far as Cena is concerned... T-Shirts or no T-Shirts, I know he's a money machine as far as selling stuff goes. Cena's just something I figure has been going on for so long that they have to be using everything to their advantage at this point, as it's completely obvious they know what would get everyone to cheer for him. They are purposely avoiding that, although they will tease us from time to time.

I am pretty sure it was announced on the day of that RAW or the day after that they where making the YES shirts. Either way the writers could have thought it was a possibility that the reaction would happen the way it did but be unsure so as to not have the shirts made. But in this case I think you are giving the writers too much credit.

With the Cena thing I think that the writers are trying to do what you are saying and are aware of it but it did take them a hell of a long time to find out as Anti Cena has been going on for a good long while now.

[djthefunkchris]

I am pretty sure it was announced on the day of that RAW or the day after that they where making the YES shirts. Either way the writers could have thought it was a possibility that the reaction would happen the way it did but be unsure so as to not have the shirts made. But in this case I think you are giving the writers too much credit.

With the Cena thing I think that the writers are trying to do what you are saying and are aware of it but it did take them a hell of a long time to find out as Anti Cena has been going on for a good long while now.

I remember him coming on Raw and letting everyone know they are making new shirts, but could have sworn someone that went got a couple already.

I agree with you overall though. I don't see them "counting" on anything, til' after it happens. However, I do think they are playing on the IWC crew, us, and anyone else that is having conversations like this, to do what we do ("Boo John Cena, Cheer Bryan Danielson, etc.). I don't think I'm giving creative anymore credit then an internet connection would give them... The problem is utilizing what they learn to enhance the product, which I think they have in more then a few area's. Even the Mark Henry push ended up to be somewhat good, something I don't think even the biggest supporters of them would have thought.

It's like a new generation is slowly but surely getting over. Over time it's easy to see what they have been doing... Testing waters, then hitting us with what worked when they are ready for it, to make it the "perfect" time for it, or as close as they can.

[bigtplaystew]

"Lord Tensai" sucks. He's fat, he can't move and he can't talk. I'm typically not a hater but I really don't want to see him injected into even more storylines. Let him go back to Japan where he was a mediocre midcard talent, or in WWE terms, "took over the country".

[alden]

"Lord Tensai" sucks. He's fat, he can't move and he can't talk. I'm typically not a hater but I really don't want to see him injected into even more storylines. Let him go back to Japan where he was a mediocre midcard talent, or in WWE terms, "took over the country".

I think he is very talented. He was a tag champion "no small feet for a Gaijin". He has a very "strong style" and to be honest i think is a legit main eventer. That is my opinion of course. They need to let him talk though, he was decent on the mic as albert.

[juggaloninjalee]

"Lord Tensai" sucks. He's fat, he can't move and he can't talk. I'm typically not a hater but I really don't want to see him injected into even more storylines. Let him go back to Japan where he was a mediocre midcard talent, or in WWE terms, "took over the country".

I like him. Giant Bernard is good and I don't mind the Tensai character. He has been booked strong and I like him much more than Khali. Tensai has been booked as a big threat to anyone on the roster. He moves like a much smaller guy and has a unique move set compared to the rest of the roster right now.

[Self]

Haven't seen any of his Tensai stuff, but I dug him in NJPW. Bad Intentions were ace.

[milamber]

Raw was fantastic.

Highlights: CM Drunk trolling Jericho. Bryan as a referee. Everything with Lesnar and Cena. I hope Cena uses the chain at ER.

[soxfan93]

"Lord Tensai" sucks. He's fat, he can't move and he can't talk. I'm typically not a hater but I really don't want to see him injected into even more storylines. Let him go back to Japan where he was a mediocre midcard talent, or in WWE terms, "took over the country".

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, but that's fine, I guess.

Raw was pretty good. The Punk/Jericho segments were great, as were the Cena/Lesnar segments. I was hoping that they'd give Claudio a match, but I can wait until Smackdown.

[Rone Rivendale]

See the WWE '12 thread for my reply to the Tensai debate. I didn't realize when I wrote it that he wrote the same thing in this thread and you guys had already ripped him one. :D

[Hive]

Why on earth are they pushing Khali? :confused:

And I know they want to push Brodus Clay, but having Ziggler and Swagger lose to a comedy team like that... meh. I thought they were aiming to get Ziggler a main event push.

[juggaloninjalee]

Why on earth are they pushing Khali? :confused:

And I know they want to push Brodus Clay, but having Ziggler and Swagger lose to a comedy team like that... meh. I thought they were aiming to get Ziggler a main event push.

Isn't the WWE's formula for success that you have to lose to everyone basically for a bit and then get a push to the top... outside of Orton and Cena of course... although Cena is now losing so maybe his true big push is coming! Yikes.

[bigtplaystew]

I don't profess to be a huge fan of Japanese wrestling. If I'm wrong about the "mid card" comment then fair enough, I'd be wrong. I love how on message boards one makes a whole post, yet responders focus on one or two words and say "You're completely wrong" lol.

He's still a fat, out of shape, past his prime talent that wasn't all that over when he WAS in his prime. In fact, before the dirt sheets started putting out rumors he was coming back over here, I can honestly say no one was really talking about Matt Bloom, Giant Bernard, Prince Albert, whatever.

However, to be a main event, you would generally have to be in the main event or "top draw" of most shows. Based on my casual following of Japanese wrestling shows, it doesn't seem like that was the case. He's been a big part of a few shows, but he was never their version of John Cena or anything meaning the top draw. That's all my point really was. I don't mean to come off as "main event or bust!" because that's not me. Quite frankly I don't care about what he did in Japan. I'd love for him to go back there and be the legendary hulk hogan of japan some of you seem to think he is.

[Remianen]

This guy gets it ^^^

Shame on you, Genadi! :p

Except most people won't get it, because the kind of audience the WWE wants doesn't do subtlety.

Exactly!

chris, you're describing a storyline that would be more at home in RoH than WWE. Remember, WWE's audience is of the K.I.S.S. variety. There's no reading between the lines allowed here. If what you suggest is true, WWE's writers are writing for the wrong promotion. They're confusing their own fans. :p

I heard they had tons of "Yes Yes Yes" shirts made before Wrestlemania, but I might have been miss-informed. Almost positive they had them for Raw the very next day though. I seriously doubt they called someone up late at night and said "Hey, we need these shirts made by tomorrow!!" although I guess they could have.

chris, this is commerce. For a company the size of WWE, with their overwhelming reliance on merchandising, they could have t-shirts printed within six hours. The NFL had Tebow Jets jerseys printed within six hours of his trade being approved. That's how big companies work with merchandising. The design of Bryan's shirt is so basic/simple, it wouldn't require much work or effort to produce in mass quantities. Remember Ron Simmons' 'Damn!' shirt? Same thing. Now Randy Orton's 'Viper' t-shirt was complex so would probably require some lead time but then, he's Randy Orton. He already had several t-shirt designs to choose from. That was just a "new"/updated one.

"Lord Tensai" sucks. He's fat, he can't move and he can't talk. I'm typically not a hater but I really don't want to see him injected into even more storylines. Let him go back to Japan where he was a mediocre midcard talent, or in WWE terms, "took over the country".

Yeah, no. You're probably a WWE/TNA fan thus you've only seen people as they work in those (watered down/simplistic) products. Go look at his work in NJPW. He sucks in WWE's product, yes, because it doesn't play to his strengths. But he's held titles a lot more respected than WWE's passel of disposable fashion accessories.

Why on earth are they pushing Khali? :confused:

And I know they want to push Brodus Clay, but having Ziggler and Swagger lose to a comedy team like that... meh. I thought they were aiming to get Ziggler a main event push.

Brodus Clay has a gimmick that can move merchandise. Ziggler and Swagger do not. In fact, what are you complaining about? Both Ziggler and Swagger have had their time at the top. It failed. So what, they're supposed to get multiple chances? Look at Miz! I think it's ironic that the person Miz said was worthless, is now surpassing him in stature AND merchandise sales (don't remember them rushing to get "I'm Awesome" t-shirts made at a moment's notice).

And Khali is being pushed since I figure WWE is going to try to counter TNA in India. So they need their Indian front and center. Might've been the same for Mexico if Mistico hadn't collapsed under WWE's schedule (which was an order of magnitude more than he was used to).

[bigtplaystew]

Yeah, no. You're probably a WWE/TNA fan thus you've only seen people as they work in those (watered down/simplistic) products. Go look at his work in NJPW. He sucks in WWE's product, yes, because it doesn't play to his strengths. But he's held titles a lot more respected than WWE's passel of disposable fashion accessories.

Yes, WWE totally doesn't play to a big, powerful, slow wrestler with a mean look. Not their style at all...

[Self]

I wish they'd move Miz over to Smackdown so he could hang out with Daniel Bryan more often. I love their relationship. That one in-ring segment they had, where Miz congratulated Bryan (taking a certain portion of the credit for himself) and hoping that maybe... one day... they could form a tag team. My heart skipped a beat. MORE! I want the tag team!

Yes, WWE totally doesn't play to a big, powerful, slow wrestler with a mean look. Not their style at all...

Working style, not aesthetics.

Japanese psychology is rather different to American stuff. Albert clicked over there. Great for big man shoulder barging spots. He was never a top, top guy in NJPW, but he was a damn fine tag champ (upper midcard belts over there) and able to headline the show every once in a while, challenging for the top strap.

[juggaloninjalee]

I don't profess to be a huge fan of Japanese wrestling. If I'm wrong about the "mid card" comment then fair enough, I'd be wrong. I love how on message boards one makes a whole post, yet responders focus on one or two words and say "You're completely wrong" lol.

He's still a fat, out of shape, past his prime talent that wasn't all that over when he WAS in his prime. In fact, before the dirt sheets started putting out rumors he was coming back over here, I can honestly say no one was really talking about Matt Bloom, Giant Bernard, Prince Albert, whatever.

However, to be a main event, you would generally have to be in the main event or "top draw" of most shows. Based on my casual following of Japanese wrestling shows, it doesn't seem like that was the case. He's been a big part of a few shows, but he was never their version of John Cena or anything meaning the top draw. That's all my point really was. I don't mean to come off as "main event or bust!" because that's not me. Quite frankly I don't care about what he did in Japan. I'd love for him to go back there and be the legendary hulk hogan of japan some of you seem to think he is.
He may not look in shape but that guy isn't in that bad of shape really. He moves in the ring well and can work a 25 minute match if he needed to. In Japan he headlines PWNOAH, Zero1, and NJPW shows at times. He was great over there. In WWE he is working a gimmick in which they want him to work.

I was talking about him before that as I had been watching a lot of Giant Bernards work with Karl Anderson for my mod. I enjoyed a match I saw of Bernards against Tanahashi which was the 1st match that made me really give him a chance again. Glad I did as I was ready to write him off as the hairy Prince Albert of old. The Tanahashi match was the 1st match I saw of Bernards in Japan by the way.

What does it matter how over he was anyways? He held titles that I would argue are more prestigious than the WWE championship at times.


Japanese psychology is rather different to American stuff. Albert clicked over there. Great for big man shoulder barging spots. He was never a top, top guy in NJPW, but he was a damn fine tag champ (upper midcard belts over there) and able to headline the show every once in a while, challenging for the top strap.

Very true.

[bigtplaystew]

Again, wonderful for him and his accomplishments over there. It's cheesy and dumb over here.

[juggaloninjalee]

Again, wonderful for him and his accomplishments over there. It's cheesy and dumb over here.

Not his fault that Cole is touting him as this international Superstar who was unstoppable. Probably the writers fault more than anything. You don't like him that is cool but the guy isn't fat, out of shape, and past his prime.

[bigtplaystew]

I am not sitting here blaming the guy single handedly for the fall of american wrestling. I don't care whose fault it is, I dont like it and it's taking up alot of precious TV time that could be used by someone better.

[juggaloninjalee]

Yea I agree it was a good, engaging match. Definitely a solid main event. Rock did a fantastic job overall. As did Cena.

So Tensai is a worse wrestler than Rock? Rock and Cena were not very good from a wrestling perspective at Mania. The match was interesting due to their overness but the match wasn't that good really. Rest holds to try and communicate. Watching them talk thru their next spots very blatantly.

Let's just agree to disagree about Tensai/Albert/Bernard. In my opinion credibility is lost when someone thinks Rock and Cena can work a good match but Tensai is a terrible wrestler?

[soxfan93]

Let's just agree to disagree about Tensai/Albert/Bernard. In my opinion credibility is lost when someone thinks Rock and Cena can work a good match but Tensai is a terrible wrestler?

I agree with you. I have friends that think Rock and Jeff Hardy are incredible wrestlers, but can't even make it through a Jericho, Regal, Malenko, or Danielson match. I just chalk it up as them not knowing anything about wrestling and move on.

[bigtplaystew]

Why on earth are they pushing Khali? :confused:

And I know they want to push Brodus Clay, but having Ziggler and Swagger lose to a comedy team like that... meh. I thought they were aiming to get Ziggler a main event push.

Agreed. Khali is a guy who I don't particularly enjoy watching either. Big Show and him as a team could work for a little while, but if it turns into a long feud between them I'm not interested.

Ziggler is awesome.

[bigtplaystew]

In my opinion credibility is lost when someone thinks Rock and Cena can work a good match but Tensai is a terrible wrestler?

Well then my credibility is shot in your eyes then. I'm sad now :-(

I think american fans of japanese wrestling put it in a bit too high of a regard. The prestige and the mystique of it seem like a bigger deal than it is to most americans I think. Whatever.

I'm an adult wrestling fan who has been watching for years. I know when I'm watching a slow dude throw people around or when I'm watching two top draws perform a dramatic and thrilling match.

When Lord Tensai headlines one of the biggest wrestling PPVs in history I'll consider him on Rock and Cena's level I guess.

[soxfan93]

Well then my credibility is shot in your eyes then. I'm sad now :-(

I think american fans of japanese wrestling put it in a bit too high of a regard. The prestige and the mystique of it seem like a bigger deal than it is to most americans I think. Whatever.

I'm an adult wrestling fan who has been watching for years. I know when I'm watching a slow dude throw people around or when I'm watching two top draws perform a dramatic and thrilling match.

When Lord Tensai headlines one of the biggest wrestling PPVs in history I'll consider him on Rock and Cena's level I guess.

Nobody said he was on their level popularity-wise. Obviously, he's not. Rock is a global icon, and John Cena is the biggest name in world today. Those guys are perfect for WWE, where talent takes a backseat to God knows what. However, talent-wise, as in actual wrestling ability, Matt Bloom is as good as, if not better than, both Rock and Cena. That can't be denied by anybody who has any real knowledge of wrestling.

To be fair, I do believe that Cena's in-ring ability is vastly underrated by the IWC. However, he still isn't close to Bloom.

[bigtplaystew]

Well I'll reiterate, I have never seen a Matt Bloom match that was on par with the quality of match I saw between Cena and the Rock. Keep in mind I'm not now or have I ever really been dogging the guys Japanese work as I've now admitted several times I'm not the world's formost expert in japanese wrestling. I'm talking about the crap I have to watch on Raw each week. His work on Raw has been crap. He looks out of place to among WWE's talent. It honestly reminds of of goldberg.

Is that due to my own lack of knowledge of wrestling? Possibly. It would be the definition of arrogance to assume that I can't be wrong. But you guys are talking about Matt Bloom like he's one of the greatest in-ring performers in the world, which is probably over rating him a bit. Especially since I didn't see anyone saying anything like that before he came back to WWE.

[soxfan93]

Were you only reading the WWE thread? Most IWC members know of the success he had in NJPW teaming with Karl Anderson as Bad Intentions. If it wasn't being talked about in this thread, that's simply because it didn't belong in here.

As for the Rock/Cena match, honestly it bored me. It was a better match than Rock/Hogan, obviously, but I felt that the quality of the match itself was a complete letdown after the year-plus buildup.

[bigtplaystew]

And now we're talking apples and oranges. As a huge ROH fan I honestly don't discuss it with people anymore because your typical ROH fan's idea of an amazing match is the blow-the-doors-down, all out crazy moves type of a match.

Your typical WWE fan tends to prefer a brilliant story being told in the ring.

So if we're talking about brilliant storytelling, certainly havent seen that from Tensai... yet. I thought the Rock and Cena was brilliant storytelling. It certainly got over huge with the crowd in the arena. No denying that.

[Hive]

I thought the Rock and Cena was brilliant storytelling. It certainly got over huge with the crowd in the arena. No denying that.

As much as I hate agreeing with bigplaystew, I too think Rock vs. Cena was a great match due to storytelling and prestige. Not quite as good as CM Punk vs. Cena at MiTB last year, but still really good. Good wrestling to me is more than just athleticism and impressive moves, it's about storytelling.

[Arrows]

As much as I hate agreeing with bigplaystew, I too think Rock vs. Cena was a great match due to storytelling and prestige. Not quite as good as CM Punk vs. Cena at MiTB last year, but still really good. Good wrestling to me is more than just athleticism and impressive moves, it's about storytelling.

For being the "MOST IMPORTANT MATCH EVARS~!, Brock/Cena's already over shadowed it entirely. Rock/Cena was nothing amazing. It didn't even come close to Rock/Hogan in the ring, and that's laughable. Toss on an entire year of utter crap build up, and 'eh.

[soxfan93]

As much as I hate agreeing with bigplaystew, I too think Rock vs. Cena was a great match due to storytelling and prestige. Not quite as good as CM Punk vs. Cena at MiTB last year, but still really good. Good wrestling to me is more than just athleticism and impressive moves, it's about storytelling.

Obviously wrestling is about storytelling. And that aspect was great. But it's also about wrestling. Sadly, this match didn't live up to the hype, and I was very disappointed.

[Hive]

For being the "MOST IMPORTANT MATCH EVARS~!, Brock/Cena's already over shadowed it entirely. Rock/Cena was nothing amazing. It didn't even come close to Rock/Hogan in the ring, and that's laughable. Toss on an entire year of utter crap build up, and 'eh.

They messed up the build by making it too long and allowing it to run out of steam and get too repetitive. Had the built been 3-6 months instead, I think people would have been much more fired up about the feud.

I personally was a lot more entertained by The Rock vs. Cena than by CM Punk vs. Jericho. Which surprised myself, to be honest.

[bigtplaystew]

Obviously wrestling is about storytelling. And that aspect was great. But it's also about wrestling. Sadly, this match didn't live up to the hype, and I was very disappointed.

Again though, apples and oranges. I certainly don't think I'm less of a wrestling fan because I happen to enjoy big WWE angles that pay off. I felt Cena/Rock was a decent pay off from a dramatic standpoint. And as far as wrestling goes, can we all stop trying to act like it's this abstract art that only YOU get? Cena and Rock was a good wrestling match all around.

As far as Matt Bloom goes, I've been watching the dude wrestle for weeks now (aand was a fan in the attitude era) and he's done NOTHING that is far beyond the capacity of a guy like Rock or Cena. You can go the snob route and say "well you havent seen enough of his japanese matches" but then I go your typical american route and say that the guy has had an opportunity to show off these so-called amazing wrestling skills and flat out hasn't. Yet.

[soxfan93]

Again though, apples and oranges. I certainly don't think I'm less of a wrestling fan because I happen to enjoy big WWE angles that pay off. I felt Cena/Rock was a decent pay off from a dramatic standpoint. And as far as wrestling goes, can we all stop trying to act like it's this abstract art that only YOU get? Cena and Rock was a good wrestling match all around.

I guess if "decent" is all you want from the main event of the biggest event of the year that was built up for an entire year, than yeah, they did a damn good job.

I'll agree that it was "good" all-around. That's certainly not what you want from a WrestleMania main event, though.

As far as Matt Bloom goes, I've been watching the dude wrestle for weeks now (aand was a fan in the attitude era) and he's done NOTHING that is far beyond the capacity of a guy like Rock or Cena. You can go the snob route and say "well you havent seen enough of his japanese matches" but then I go your typical american route and say that the guy has had an opportunity to show off these so-called amazing wrestling skills and flat out hasn't. Yet.

You keep talking about apples and oranges, yet you keep trying to compare them, yourself. He can't have the type of matches that he had in Japan here in WWE. Nobody else can wrestle that style, so he has to adapt (i.e. water himself down) to the WWE style. That's not being a "snob", that's stating facts. Look at Danielson matches in WWE vs. his classics in ROH. Look at Punk's matches in WWE vs. his entire ROH Championship run in Summer 2006. It's the exact same way with Bloom.

[juggaloninjalee]

Double Post

[Bull]

Obviously wrestling is about storytelling. And that aspect was great. But it's also about wrestling. Sadly, this match didn't live up to the hype, and I was very disappointed.

I don't necessarily agree with you about it living up to the hype, but only because I never looked at it as WWE hyping up Rock vs. Cena to be a spectacular 5 star match. I saw it as a match between the two biggest stars of two different eras, and I think that in itself is what sold the match to the fans. I wouldn't think many internet fans would look at a match between The Rock and John Cena and expect it to be outstanding, regardless of the event or the hype. Mostly based on how the vast majority of them feel about the latter competitor.

[juggaloninjalee]

Well I'll reiterate, I have never seen a Matt Bloom match that was on par with the quality of match I saw between Cena and the Rock. Keep in mind I'm not now or have I ever really been dogging the guys Japanese work as I've now admitted several times I'm not the world's formost expert in japanese wrestling. I'm talking about the crap I have to watch on Raw each week. His work on Raw has been crap. He looks out of place to among WWE's talent. It honestly reminds of of goldberg.

Is that due to my own lack of knowledge of wrestling? Possibly. It would be the definition of arrogance to assume that I can't be wrong. But you guys are talking about Matt Bloom like he's one of the greatest in-ring performers in the world, which is probably over rating him a bit. Especially since I didn't see anyone saying anything like that before he came back to WWE.

So you have seen what 4 of Matt Blooms matches in the last 8 years? 2 of which were squashes on television and the other 2 were just television matches too. WWE doesn't usually put PPV quality matches on RAW or SD.

I am not saying Matt Bloom is one of the best ever or anything even close to that. Just saying give him a chance because the guy is talented in the ring.

As for Rock vs Cena the story told was fine at Mania but I could blatantly see them talking thru spots and not even trying to cover up their mouths or anything. That sort of stuff drives me nuts. On top of that the rest holds were not even strategically placed well in that match. When you are in a rest hold and not doing the basics such as hiding your mouth while you talk about the next few spots you are not a good wrestler. Rock was the worse of the 2 obviously. Cena did a better job.

I like Rock and Cena from a promo stand point but that is where it ends pretty much. Cena is very underrated when it comes to his in ring work but he isn't great by any means.

[bigtplaystew]

I don't necessarily agree with you about it living up to the hype, but only because I never looked at it as WWE hyping up Rock vs. Cena to be a spectacular 5 star match. I saw it as a match between the two biggest stars of two different eras, and I think that in itself is what sold the match to the fans. I wouldn't think many internet fans would look at a match between The Rock and John Cena and expect it to be outstanding, regardless of the event or the hype. Mostly based on how the vast majority of them feel about the latter competitor.

Exactly, I had expectations and it delivered on that level. Just trying not to overblow it. Unfortunately we on the internet only see things in black and white. We have a hard time with Grey.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I expected by far and large for Rock/Cena not to be a masterpiece, especially as one of Cena's strengths in the ring is playing to his opponent's chemistry. He can have a great match with guys like Batista, Orton and Bobby Lashley, whether his opponent is something to shout about in the ring or not. But how the heck are you gonna do that with a touring movie star? there's next to no way. No wonder they were talking through spots openly and stuff.

Not his fault that Cole is touting him as this international Superstar who was unstoppable. Probably the writers fault more than anything.

And having him go over Cena as well...

I'm in the same camp as bigplaystew, Lord Tensai just doesn't do it for me - without being insulting, if I didn't know any better I'd just see him as a fat bumbling goof with awkward taunts in the ring. I have those same friends who think Jeff Hardy is the bee's knees and Jericho/Bryan are boring, but then again it's still not as big a gap as between a WWE worker and this Japanese style. Now that said, I'm not against him having a push. Just him going over Cena this early surprised me, with the barricade of heels waiting in the wings right now... if anything, I would've even picked Ryback to go over Cena. Barring any shenanigans, I'm sure that guy will go far in the business with that look of his and a certifiable gimmick to go with it. But I don't wanna delve into the "I would've"s and the "they should"s.

[Hive]

I had to see what all the fuzz was all about, so youtubed Tensai's matches... and again, I'm so very sad to have to agree with bigplaystew... but the guy really does not appear to be anything special; his gimmick is dumber than Brodus Clay's, his matches consist of the 3-4 same moves every time and he most certainly did not deserve a win against Cena so soon.

Sure, he may show more of himself as he gets more ringtime, but as long as his dumb gimmick and stupid manneurisms stay the same, I'll never get behind him.

He's slightly more interesting than Khali though, I guess that's at least something.

[juggaloninjalee]

I had to see what all the fuzz was all about, so youtubed Tensai's matches... and again, I'm so very sad to have to agree with bigplaystew... but the guy really does not appear to be anything special; his gimmick is dumber than Brodus Clay's, his matches consist of the 3-4 same moves every time and he most certainly did not deserve a win against Cena so soon.

Sure, he may show more of himself as he gets more ringtime, but as long as his dumb gimmick and stupid manneurisms stay the same, I'll never get behind him.

He's slightly more interesting than Khali though, I guess that's at least something.

Hive I like you so don't take this wrong but Sting isn't known for his huge move set either and last I checked you were a really big Sting fan.

He may just not be it for you guys and that is ok. I like him and am happy he is in WWE. Others may not be a fan of his. We are allowed to think differently.

[Nathers7]

I'm just annoyed that they aren't investing creatively on Raw in the heels they already have. I'd much rather they pushed Ziggler than a guy who flat out can't work the WWE style. The only thing Tensai has over the current heels on Raw is that they've bothered to give him a push.

[Hive]

Hive I like you so don't take this wrong but Sting isn't known for his huge move set either and last I checked you were a really big Sting fan.

Sting has heaps of charisma and a much better gimmick, though. Both of Sting's big gimmicks blast this one away.

And when in his hayday, he hed a pretty good athleticism. But yeah, I know he wasn't exactly ever a Bret Hart or Kurt Angle. :p

He may just not be it for you guys and that is ok. I like him and am happy he is in WWE. Others may not be a fan of his. We are allowed to think differently.

Well of course, that's the beauty of wrestling. Everyone is allowed their own opinions, and it would be boring if we all liked and hated the same guys. I didn't mean to offend people who like him, I just explained why he isn't for me. :)

I personally always had a fondness for Batista, another big guy who didn't exactly have the technnical wrestling knowledge of Dean Malenko. I can appreciate a big guy with a limited skill set, given the right gimmick and storyline(s) - and a wee bit of charisma. It's just that WWE's presentation of Bloom currently does nothing for me.

(And yes, I am aware that most people here would probably rate Bloom/Tensai far higher on their list than Batista :p)

[Hive]

I'm just annoyed that they aren't investing creatively on Raw in the heels they already have. I'd much rather they pushed Ziggler than a guy who flat out can't work the WWE style. The only thing Tensai has over the current heels on Raw is that they've bothered to give him a push.

Agreed. They have far better talent already that just needs a creative gimmick so they can get over. I personally see Ziggler as someone who could thrive under a modern Mr. Perfect gimmick. Have him run with that for a while, then at some point have a (hopefully more mature) Joe Hennig feud with him over the name. BANG! Gold, right there.

On Bloom/Tensai... it's not that I have anything against a Japanese guy coming in to do the classic Great Muta stuff with green mist and stuff... it's just that I would rather see a smaller, talented Japanese guy do it. The mist thing, to me, is something that should be used by the sneaky and/or cowardly heels who can't get by on brute force... but given that they are booking Tensai as a big and powerful brute, I think it's a weird mix.

[djthefunkchris]

@Remi: It's happening, no matter if they should be doing it or not. The reaction's with Cena all night on RAW is screaming it to me. If you can't get these kind of gimmicks, I can understand why you might not want to watch WWE.:p

On topic:

I don't mind Tensai at all to be honest... Then again I don't mind a few other's people mind.

There's like this certain, I don't know... sarcasm that lies around here and I don't really get it. You guys should know that almost everything is available via youtube, etc. We can watch all that stuff, and I'm not much unlike Self, outside of the things we actually enjoy... Meaning, I check out NJPW and ROH and many other's... I will be sitting at my computer and five or six hours will roll by as I do so, just watching everything I can find. I'm 100% sure I'm not the only one like that. With all that said, I'm going to say how I see alot of this. One point I'd like to mention though, is that Hulk Hogan was over there for like five years, and if your into that, check him out. Moved a lot better then Albert in my opinion (for those talking about big guys moving well).

Most of the Japanese programming I've been able to catch (mostly on YouTube admit-tingly), feels "old school" to me. Like USA 50+ years ago, maybe more, if you ignore the high flying. Lucha feels almost the same as us... only more spotty, perhaps evolving faster slightly then US wrestling. Less talking in both for the most part. Far as looking at all these smaller promotions in the US though, to me... They aren't all that different. They seem to all have some sort of gimmick they are trying to fit into it, but it all feels the same as the rest. ROH I can't get into lately, but watching their older stuff I love it. The biggest difference I feel to the indie's and ROH etc, is their willingness to go a bit overboard. I feel that quite a bit of the indie stuff is actually quite dangerous. Perhaps that's the appeal? I don't quite get most of it, as I would rather watch... Chikara I think was the name, fun and more fun there. This is coming from someone that was more of an ECW fan because of the heartfelt (I felt anyways) promo's, rather then the all out extreme match's.

Tensai/Albert or whatever you want to call him, to me is no more special then Brodus, Khali, etc. They have a noticeable gimmick for him, working on something I feel will catch on with the IWC crowd more so then general fans. I'm with the other's in that he hasn't done anything special at all, and again, I feel like I'm watching a show made years ago when he comes on. Not really a bad thing to me. I enjoyed the "Mist" stuff back then, and I enjoy it now as well. However, you have to admit he looks clumsy, or your completely ignoring him. When he gets up, it's more of a crawl up... They need to keep him off the mat. There's things wrong there.

For those that idolize Japan wrestling, that's fine. It's actually a good thing, as I said it reminds me of "Old School" wrestling, from right here in the USA (Pre-80's for sure). The biggest thing I ever hear come out of people's mouths about WWE and TNA, etc, is "Alright already, Get on with the match!" "Shut up and wrestle!" etc. That's been my complaint for well... ever. So it's very understandable to me, why people would think of NJPW as superior in wrestling quality, or in ring work, or whatever the kids are calling pre-determined match's today. Dropping people on heads wasn't the smartest thing, but hey... Too each their own, right?

[alden]

here is a great example of wrestlers turning down the style in america.....

Who changed wrestling most in recent memory....but has always been described as a "bad wrester"......hulk hogan.....He changed wrestling in the late 80's.......he had a move set of get destroyed......hulk up.....punch...point.....slam....leg drop.....that was pretty much it....

but if you look at his matches from japan at the same time period.....shocking hogan could actuly wrestle.....he was not great but he could put on a decent wrestling match.

[milamber]

Agreed. Khali is a guy who I don't particularly enjoy watching either. Big Show and him as a team could work for a little while, but if it turns into a long feud between them I'm not interested.

Ziggler is awesome.

I still think Ziggler has main event potential. He's still young so I'm not worried. Miz has to move to SD. He's got nowhere to go on Raw (that's why he's being shoehorned into a US title match).

Actually, Khali was okay on Raw. I don't mind his partnership with Show. And he added to his moveset by chopping Codey's knees instead of his head. Still a bad wrestler, though.

Tensai is pretty good for a big man. At least they let him steamroll his opppenents like a legit monster (much more menacing than Henry who struggles to beat faces every other match). It remains to be seen if he can do it for more than 15 minutes in a main event PPV match.

I think you guys expect too much from Wrestlemania. To me it's about the hype, the grandeur and the big stars colliding, not the quality. If I want to see quality WWE wrestling there's plenty of other PPVs that will deliever better than WM.

[alden]

Khali i think should be judged differently then most wrestlers. In reality what can you really do to him? Its the same thing with andre the giant the big show and countless other "giants". Was andre a great worker? Can anyone really name a great "giant" worker *other then baba". Khali is a gimmick act and I don't think i will ever look at him other then that.

[BurningHamster]

his gimmick is dumber than Brodus Clay's


Nothing is dumber than Brodus Clay, but yes, The Lord Tensai gimmick is rather stupid.

[Jaysin]

I think Big Show is an insanely underrated worker. When he's motivated, he can be the life of the party. I'm not saying he's the best in ring worker, but for a man his size? Yeah, he's a good worker. He's also super charismatic and can make others look good.

Most workers his size are gimmick acts and nothing more, but Big Show? He's far from just a gimmick.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I'm just annoyed that they aren't investing creatively on Raw in the heels they already have. I'd much rather they pushed Ziggler than a guy who flat out can't work the WWE style. The only thing Tensai has over the current heels on Raw is that they've bothered to give him a push.

It's a pretty staggering case, Ziggler isn't just being shoehorned, but Miz... hell his depush has made him likeable to my eyes now. :p looking past the sidelining, there's Del Rio who just came back. Then there's Cody Rhodes who just lost the IC title, fooling around with Show. And boom, they debut Lord Tensai and Ryback both at once. They bring Lesnar back as the supposed top heel on Raw. Then there's Mark Henry who just got off three world title matches in a row. And through all that, Jericho and Bryan are still shining through as the ardent heel World title chasers.

Pretty intriguing how they're emcompassing all these heels, as a result they had to push Santino and make Khali compete every week. Even there, it's getting a bit lopsided, anticipating to see who's gonna have to make the switch(either disposition or brand).


Tensai is pretty good for a big man. At least they let him steamroll his opppenents like a legit monster (much more menacing than Henry who struggles to beat faces every other match). It remains to be seen if he can do it for more than 15 minutes in a main event PPV match.

I think you guys expect too much from Wrestlemania. To me it's about the hype, the grandeur and the big stars colliding, not the quality. If I want to see quality WWE wrestling there's plenty of other PPVs that will deliever better than WM.

To the first bit, it pretty much works in intervals and spades. One monster will get his terror of reign going on, whether through debuting or making a return, while the other big guys will lay and just do their thing or flounder among the midcard. Henry had his time last fall when he went over Orton. In four months time, Tensai could likely be a shoe filler for the Raw Supershow or in a storyline arc as the big man to overcome(unless they go all the way Umaga-style with him). While another big man or two is gonna be wreaking havoc. /nod to the second bit.

[Hive]

Nothing is dumber than Brodus Clay, but yes, The Lord Tensai gimmick is rather stupid.

The difference is that Brodus Clay's gimmick is *meant* to be a dumb little comedy gimmick. Tensai's, they expect people to take seriously.

[djthefunkchris]

I agree with you. I have friends that think Rock and Jeff Hardy are incredible wrestlers, but can't even make it through a Jericho, Regal, Malenko, or Danielson match. I just chalk it up as them not knowing anything about wrestling and move on.

Umm... Hardy and Rock are usually good guys, and the rest are usually bad guys. Might have something to do with it.:p

[Jaysin]

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/WWE/article10024817.shtml

Rey Mysterio suspended for 60 days.

[juggaloninjalee]

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/WWE/article10024817.shtml

Rey Mysterio suspended for 60 days.

Well that blows. Wonder what this means for Rey's future with WWE.

[soxfan93]

I've been saying Rey should retire for a few years now. 2 strikes, another knee surgery, etc. I can honestly see him retiring.

[BurningHamster]

The difference is that Brodus Clay's gimmick is *meant* to be a dumb little comedy gimmick. Tensai's, they expect people to take seriously.

Because WWE are stupid on both counts. You got a serious gimmick that makes no sense and a comedy gimmick that is about as funny as a funeral.

And yeah, Soxfan, Rey probably should retire. He knees sound like they are a mess and I am honestly so bored of him these days.

[bigtplaystew]

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/WWE/article10024817.shtml

Rey Mysterio suspended for 60 days.

He is almost certainly prescribed steroids comming off the very serious knee surgery. It's extremely common among patients with physical jobs to be treated with steroids for their ability to grow damaged tissue.

But this isn't against WWE's policy.

So it was probably something fun. If it was a party drug... ehh.... tough to explain. Especially with the way Eddie went out and all. You'd think the guy wouldn't be that stupid.

[BurningHamster]

He is almost certainly prescribed steroids comming off the very serious knee surgery. It's extremely common among patients with physical jobs to be treated with steroids for their ability to grow damaged tissue.

But this isn't against WWE's policy.

So it was probably something fun. If it was a party drug... ehh.... tough to explain. Especially with the way Eddie went out and all. You'd think the guy wouldn't be that stupid.

I've learned it's best never underestimate a person's stupidity. But yeah, what you said checks out. I am pretty sure he'd be on the roids legally and prescribed which raises the question, what the heck did he do?

[crownsy]

I've learned it's best never underestimate a person's stupidity. But yeah, what you said checks out. I am pretty sure he'd be on the roids legally and prescribed which raises the question, what the heck did he do?

isn't Rey a fan of the sticky icky?

Not sure, asking, could have sworn id heard that somewhere though.

If so i could see rey saying "f it, im about to retire anyway, if i get caught i get caught" and smoking a little chronic during rehab.

who knows though.

[juggaloninjalee]

Him smoking marijuana isn't going to lead him down the same path as Eddie Guerrero.

[Astil]

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/WWE/article10024817.shtml

Rey Mysterio suspended for 60 days.

Boyaka boyaka! SIX TY DAYS!

[ThatChizzle]

Rey lives in California, weed is legal there if you have it prescribed.

Don't think WWE will agree with that, but its the law there....

(and yes, anyone can get it prescribed for any reason, crooked doctors and all)

[juggaloninjalee]

Rey lives in California, weed is legal there if you have it prescribed.

Don't think WWE will agree with that, but its the law there....

(and yes, anyone can get it prescribed for any reason, crooked doctors and all)

You are right it is legally prescribed there as well as some other states like here in Michigan. However it is still illegal on a Federal level. So technically it is still illegal even with a prescription.

[crownsy]

Rey lives in California, weed is legal there if you have it prescribed.

Don't think WWE will agree with that, but its the law there....

(and yes, anyone can get it prescribed for any reason, crooked doctors and all)

Yea the problem is the Fed's don't see it that way either.

Under bush, it was heavily prosecuted by the DEA. only difference is Obama told the DEA "hey, lets pick our battles here." and told them to butt out.

EDIT: juggs beat me to it.

[bigtplaystew]

Him smoking marijuana isn't going to lead him down the same path as Eddie Guerrero.

To address this point, marijuana can be dangerous. I know High Times loves to publish all these wonderful studies of it's health benefits. But EVERYTHING I've ever read in a peer reviewed medical journal leads me to believe that marijuana, when smoked of course, is a very unhealthy thing to do.

So to clarify the point I'd made, I dont believe Rey or anyone else would die of marijuana overdose. I simply thought a man whose best friend died from illicit drug use would keep his nose clean.

On reflection, thats kind of a catty thing to say. Rey's or anyone else's drug use is their business. I'm no saint myself.


Rey lives in California, weed is legal there if you have it prescribed.

Don't think WWE will agree with that, but its the law there....


I believe a company does have a right to set up it's own drug policy in the U.S. This has been a controversial issue as several companies and healthcare organizations have fired people or refused hiring people for tobacco use, which they considered against company policy.

So Rey can live wherever he wants and do whatever he wants. It's his business. If it's legal in his state - that's wonderful. But If WWE has a policy against using marijuana of any kind (and I believe they do) then he still should and will be disciplined.

[crownsy]

So to clarify the point I'd made, I dont believe Rey or anyone else would die of marijuana overdose. I simply thought a man whose best friend died from illicit drug use would keep his nose clean.


Well of course any drug or substance for that matter done to excess is a bad idea, and awful for your health. But if he does smoke pot, that doesn't mean he's on some downward spiral into harder, more dangerous drugs.

But if done in moderation, Studies have consistently shown that pot is no more damaging than alcohol and perhaps much less so, and is far, far less addictive.

For instance, I've smoked occasionally (read: 2-5 times a month) since i was 16 and have somehow managed to maintain a pretty high standard of living, both socially, economically and physically despite what reefer madness may claim.

Now, if i was a moron and a waste of space pot head, of course things would be different, and who knows what level rey is at. but to compare pot to coke, which was eddy's reported pass time of choice, is apples to oranges.

That said, fully agree with your second point. Pot, dispute what your personal feelings on it, is a drug. A private company like the WWE is well within it's rights to test for it, and base employment decisions off it. If thats really what got rey nailed, shame on him. You do so at your own risk when your employer has a policy against it.

of course this is all speculation, since WWE never releases what they fail for, right?

[Hive]

I simply thought a man whose best friend died from illicit drug use would keep his nose clean.

Oh you mean like Eddie himself did when his best friend, Art Barr, died from a drug overdose in 1994? :p

[Fantabulous]

Oh you mean like Eddie himself did when his best friend, Art Barr, died from a drug overdose in 1994? :p

The coroner was actually unsure of what killed Art Barr. Most people believe it was a heart attack.

[Rone Rivendale]

Eddie's death was heart related too. But it was clear that the years of drugs was what caused the eventual heart failure to happen. Eddie had been clean for a few years when his death happened. Drugs don't always kill you right away.

[Hive]

The coroner was actually unsure of what killed Art Barr. Most people believe it was a heart attack.

That may very well have been, but can we at least agree that 28-year old Art Barr would likely not have had a heart attack at such a young age if not for excessive drug use?

[bigtplaystew]

Generally, drugs cause cardiac issues. Excessive drug use of any kind will almost certainly have a negative effect on your heart and brain over time. Some are more severe than others.

So while a young Art Barr might have had a bad heart genetically, his excessive drug usage most likely contributed to his death.

And with that post, I get the "most obvious statement of the year" award.

[BurningHamster]

So to clarify the point I'd made, I dont believe Rey or anyone else would die of marijuana overdose.


Nah, stoners just bore everyone else to death by talking about it all the time. :(

[crownsy]

Nah, stoners just bore everyone else to death by talking about it all the time. :(

yes, not at all like borderline alcoholics who feel the need to talk constantly about how hard they party or smokers who insist on telling me off about how i have alot of nerve asking them to not smoke their cig in my face.

but i digress :D

[Moe Hunter]

yes, not at all like borderline alcoholics who feel the need to talk constantly about how hard they party or smokers who insist on telling me off about how i have alot of nerve asking them to not smoke their cig in my face.

but i digress :D

Did anyone say it was different to those things? I don't think I saw anyone mention drinking or smoking at all, actually.

[crownsy]

Did anyone say it was different to those things? I don't think I saw anyone mention drinking or smoking at all, actually.

hadn't really thought it out that much, wasn't taking a stance. just felt like making a throw away comment while we joked about Rey and pot heads and such.

:p

[nucleardonkey]

When did this become the official drug and alcohol thread? Rey was suspended and in all likelihood we will never find out for sure what it was for. Personally I'd much rather discuss WWE than the moral/political rights and wrongs of drug use. For the record though, cannabis is not a drug it's an herb politicians labeled it a drug but God put it here as an herb for medicinal usage.

Anyway....back to the WWE talk. I really love what they're doing with AJ/Daniel Bryan. Anything that puts AJ on my TV every week is always a positive and it's good to see actual story telling coming back to WWE. Hopefully they keep the story going with some sort of ending that benefits AJ and Bryan respectively instead of just running a couple of angles then dropping it out of nowhere. Making Bryan an abusive, arrogant, nerd being stalked by AJ who is a psychotic, angry, nerd has epic written all over it.

[crownsy]

When did this become the official drug and alcohol thread? Rey was suspended and in all likelihood we will never find out for sure what it was for. Personally I'd much rather discuss WWE than the moral/political rights and wrongs of drug use. For the record though, cannabis is not a drug it's an herb politicians labeled it a drug but God put it here as an herb for medicinal usage.

Anyway....back to the WWE talk. I really love what they're doing with AJ/Daniel Bryan. Anything that puts AJ on my TV every week is always a positive and it's good to see actual story telling coming back to WWE. Hopefully they keep the story going with some sort of ending that benefits AJ and Bryan respectively instead of just running a couple of angles then dropping it out of nowhere. Making Bryan an abusive, arrogant, nerd being stalked by AJ who is a psychotic, angry, nerd has epic written all over it.


meh, we were bored :P

I agree on Bryan, love his work as the cowardly heel, and I have to say, AJ has shown me something. She's actually pretty darn good on promo's, and the mean streak she showed last week was interesting. Heck, she's a much better actress than any of the other current diva's, love that Bryan's rise is giving her some face time.

Spoiler: If you check out the poster for "no way out" looks like they might be taking the AJ/Bryan storyline the doloris claiborne root, which would be awesome.


Only thing i outright hated tonight on smackdown is cody losing to great khali. ugh. i mean, i get that it was "revenge" but honestly, no other face needed that pop?

I also dislike the aksana storyline because it's a reinforcement that Vince and the WWE are pigs, even by wrestling fan standards. WWE booking holds that if a women gets screentime it's for

1) a lame joke my 8 year old brother doesn't find funny (fart jokes)
2) because she's a gold digger/slut
3) eye candy only

that's another reason i'm pulling for this AJ character, at least she's unique in the current climate.
I've also really been pulling for tyson kid to get back on TV, anyone seen some of his matches on superstars/nxt recently? awesome stuff, and his new sharpshooter variant is siiiiccck.

[Hyde Hill]

WWE only fines for the good herb, which is less damaging then alcohol and most proscription drugs by the by ( Dutch I should know lol), unless they have radically changed that policy.

So it was either roids which he couldn't show a proscription for or too many or unsubscribed pain killers. Given rey's history I would go with the second.

[bigtplaystew]

"Weed" is not an herb. It's a flower first of all.

Secondly, it has a specific effect on neuroreceptors in your brain which cause central nervous depression. It is not an herb. Oregano is an herb. Oregano doesn't cause central nervous system depression. Marijuana is also extremely harmful to your health if smoked, especially on a frequent basis.

I'm not saying it doesn't have legitimate medicinal value, because it does. I also don't think it's any worse or better than alcohol or tobacco. They're all about the same level of unhealthy depending on how you consume them and how often.

Either way, I like Rey and want to see him back. Like I said it's his (and WWE's) business. I get tired of his character (or lack there of) sometimes but overall I've been a fan of his for a very long time. I honestly think he'll be remembered as one of the better performers in our sport. A lot of legends have had their careers cut shorter than it needed to be, hopefully Rey will come back and come back strong.

[milamber]

Smackdown was fun. Claudio looked good. I'm digging Ryback. More AJ & Kaitlyn please :D

[Hive]

yes, not at all like borderline alcoholics who feel the need to talk constantly about how hard they party

"I'm not an alcoholic, alcoholics go to meetings. I'm a drunk, we go to parties."

[bigtplaystew]

Ryback is kinda cool lol. I wanna see where it goes. I know it's weird that I'm down on Tensai but high on Ryback. Ryback is goofy fun to me. Tnsai is supposed to be serious, yet I'm constantly laughing directly at that gimmick.

That said, I'm digging the return of over-the-top gimmicks. I wouldn't mind a few more of these coming back.

[crownsy]

Ryback is kinda cool lol. I wanna see where it goes. I know it's weird that I'm down on Tensai but high on Ryback. Ryback is goofy fun to me. Tnsai is supposed to be serious, yet I'm constantly laughing directly at that gimmick.

That said, I'm digging the return of over-the-top gimmicks. I wouldn't mind a few more of these coming back.

Agree on both counts, It also hurts that no matter how much you explain to me how he went to japan and became a serious ninja warrior....it's still albert.

I don't mind ryback, although i wish they would acknowledge that it's skip. example:

"not much is known about this man!!" uh...really cole? he looks awful similar to that guy who was second in command to one of your more interesting (at the start) stables...

WWE certainly needs some return on the over the top gimmicks....I'm so sick and tired of "every heel is a whiny Douch who runs/cheats when a face stands up to him" and "every face is an butt kicking monster/ underdog" gimmicks.

That's why i enjoy Brock's "im going to kill john cena, and there's nothing you can do about it" and henry's run as a dominate heel no one liked but couldnt stop (his i'm done smiling promo was the best work he's done in WWE)

I also like the idea that managers are coming back a bit. I'm cautiously optimistic on this while AW as a sports agent thing.

[Teh_Showtime]

ER tonight

Watching?

[Jaysin]

Getting read to go to my buddy's house to watch Extreme Rules. Gonna feel real out of place being the only person to not wanna see Brock, but whatever I guess :p

And according to this, Rey tested positive for amphetamines

http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/4976/what-drugs-did-rey-mysterio-test-positive-for-details

[FINisher]

Partial results:

Cena def. Brock, Cena got bloodied right from the start. Brock really botched a dangerous looking dive from the ring to the outside. Second time he tried Cena hit him with the chain and busted him open. AA on top of the ring steps.. Quite surprised that Cena won, where will they go with Brock after this? Or Cena? Cena did a postmatch promo and got huge face pop from the crowd, it was a pro-wrestling promo. Says he's taking a break. From a long time Cena hater.. I have to say respect. He got really beat up in that match.

Layla (?) returned and won Divas championship from Bella twin. Really disturbing looking neckbreaker finisher move, really snapped the neck.

CM Punk def. Jericho, quite good match actually. Lots of cool spots.

Sheamus def. Daniel Bryan, liked the 2/3 stipulation, also really good match.

Cody Rhodes def. Big Show, Show stepped into a table and broke it and thus Cody won IC championship. Show slammed Rhodes trough two tables post match.

Funkasaurus def. Ziggler

Goldberg 2012 def. two jobbers.. Really loved the Goldberg chants to Rybak. Deserves them.

[akujy]

Super Cena all over again??? God, i think i'm going to quit watching WWE. I'm done with them! Cena always wins. it's boring, it's washed up and making Lesnar return to lose his debut match isn't that smart of a business move. I'm done. Predictable ppv in every line and every single match...and the only surprise, Cena's win, comes out when it shouldn't! WWE sucks!

[Wrestling Century]

Super Cena all over again??? God, i think i'm going to quit watching WWE. I'm done with them! Cena always wins. it's boring, it's washed up and making Lesnar return to lose his debut match isn't that smart of a business move. I'm done. Predictable ppv in every line and every single match...and the only surprise, Cena's win, comes out when it shouldn't! WWE sucks!

I really hope that you are either trolling or joking, because you sound like one of those teenage/kid "smarks" from other wrestling forums. This PPV was actually one of the least predictable ones in recent years. Plus, people stopped raging about Cena winning in 2008. I guess you didn't get the memo. :p

[b0shey]

everything to please the damn kids, this is a repeat of the Miz/Riley vs Cena match.. Cena got his ass kicked for 30+ min hits 2 moves and win.

what a dumb move to have Lesnar come back and lose his return match.

[borman_48]

Super Cena all over again??? God, i think i'm going to quit watching WWE. I'm done with them! Cena always wins. it's boring, it's washed up and making Lesnar return to lose his debut match isn't that smart of a business move. I'm done. Predictable ppv in every line and every single match...and the only surprise, Cena's win, comes out when it shouldn't! WWE sucks!

I'm guessing you didn't watch the show. All the matches were great, I loved Bryan getting his little, "I have 'til 5" deal in for his match, and Cena put Lesnar over huge in their match. Lesnar might have gone for a pin early, but he never really tried to put him away and if it weren't Extreme Rules, Cena would have been out for the 10 count 2 or 3 times. Also, if Cena didn't screw up his arm lifting Lesnar in the kimura I'm really impressed. That looked nasty and awkward.

All in all a really really good show.

[pauls07]

everything to please the damn kids, this is a repeat of the Miz/Riley vs Cena match.. Cena got his ass kicked for 30+ min hits 2 moves and win.

what a dumb move to have Lesnar come back and lose his return match.

come on brock is a part timer who when he comes back will F5 CM Punk and bang he will have his heat back

[20LEgend]

Remember at one point Brock did get more than a three count on Cena had the referee been awake. The F-5 when he knocked him out for the second time. Really Brock is still the better guy but I do see the frustrations in that it didn't take much damage to end the UFC badass megastar.

[bigtplaystew]

Excellent PPV. I thought theOrton/Kane match was a snooze. Beyond that, the promoted matches were all pretty damn good. The Funkasaurus/Rybacck/Divas stuff was just there. Not good not bad. But the big matches were all fairly good quality.

I enjoyed Brock comin out and throwing legit 'bows.

[SaySo]

Super Cena all over again??? God, i think i'm going to quit watching WWE. I'm done with them! Cena always wins. it's boring, it's washed up and making Lesnar return to lose his debut match isn't that smart of a business move. I'm done. Predictable ppv in every line and every single match...and the only surprise, Cena's win, comes out when it shouldn't! WWE sucks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RoOwSKI7M&feature=related

Don't come back.

[Jaysin]

Seriously a great show.

Probably the most fun I've had watching a pay per view in a long time.

[Candyman]

Goldberg 2012 def. two jobbers.. Really loved the Goldberg chants to Rybak. Deserves them.

One of my favorite random, unprovoked chants of all time. I first noticed it on Smackdown! last week. Hopefully it catches on.

everything to please the damn kids, this is a repeat of the Miz/Riley vs Cena match.. Cena got his ass kicked for 30+ min hits 2 moves and win.

what a dumb move to have Lesnar come back and lose his return match.

I really don't get this line of thinking. I mean, an hour before that they did the exact same thing with Punk/Jericho. On Friday, they did the exact same thing with Sheamus and Mark Henry. It's a standard format - heel dominates, face pulls through in the end. They've been doing it since I started watching wrestling in the 80's, when Hulk Hogan became the biggest superstar in wrestling history by doing the exact same thing. But John Cena's the one face that shouldn't do it?

And the dumb move would've been having a part time wrestler squash your biggest star. What are you going to do with Cena? He's no different than the guys Ryback has been eating for lunch if you do that.

Don't get me wrong, on another night, under different circumstances, Lesnar can beat Cena - but not after destroying him for 15 minutes. Cena needed to pull out the win to maintain his credibility. They got their point across with Lesnar.

I'm guessing you didn't watch the show. All the matches were great, I loved Bryan getting his little, "I have 'til 5" deal in for his match, and Cena put Lesnar over huge in their match. Lesnar might have gone for a pin early, but he never really tried to put him away and if it weren't Extreme Rules, Cena would have been out for the 10 count 2 or 3 times. Also, if Cena didn't screw up his arm lifting Lesnar in the kimura I'm really impressed. That looked nasty and awkward.

All in all a really really good show.

That was my thought too. I really don't know how somebody can proclaim they're done with WWE based on that PPV. One of the best wrestling shows I've seen in a long, long time. Orton/Kane, both title matches, and Cena/Lesnar were all excellent matches. I have no idea what was so predictable about any of it, beyond the normal predictability of a wrestling match(there's only two possible outcomes, it's pretty predictable).

And given what happened after the match, with Cena talking to the trainer and the little speech he gave, it certainly appears that his arm is legit injured. Definitely didn't look like a work. Although Beth Phoenix's ankle injury didn't look like a work, aside from the referee's nonchalance, so who knows for sure. I guess we'll find out in the next few days.