The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Jaysin]

I just don't understand how the same people who bashed Rock for his decision to leave wrestling and coming back are praising and raving about Lesnar's return.

Lesnar hated the schedule, and left. Yet people praise the hell out of him. What's worse is a lot of those people complain about the god push some wrestlers have gotten the last few years(Sheamus), but Lesnar got the same kind of push back in the day.

It's not even really people on this site, as much as people on the dirt sheet sites.

Is it because Heyman was involved with Lesnar's original run and clinging to one of Heyman's guys is still the fashionable thing to do? I honestly just don't get the difference.

[ampulator]

Actually, these people also complained about Lesnar leaving. In fact, probably moreso than the Rock's. The thing is, though, it's been a while, and if the WWE and Lesnar can see eye-to-eye, at least for now, I don't think fans will hold a grudge either.

It didn't hurt (help?) that he re-debuted against John Cena either.

[Jaysin]

Actually, these people also complained about Lesnar leaving. In fact, probably moreso than the Rock's. The thing is, though, it's been a while, and if the WWE and Lesnar can see eye-to-eye, at least for now, I don't think fans will hold a grudge either.

It didn't hurt (help?) that he re-debuted against John Cena either.

For the most part, I've only seen people excited that Lesnar is back.

The only people I've really seen come out and talk against Lesnar's return is Cody Rhodes(have to find the interview again) and Edge in that spiel he did to fire Cena up.

I'm a fan of both Lesnar and the Rock, but both guys did the exact same thing and one is praised and the other is torn down.

[ampulator]

For the most part, I've only seen people excited that Lesnar is back.

The only people I've really seen come out and talk against Lesnar's return is Cody Rhodes(have to find the interview again) and Edge in that spiel he did to fire Cena up.

I'm a fan of both Lesnar and the Rock, but both guys did the exact same thing and one is praised and the other is torn down.
I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, yes, you are right, these fans DID complain about the Rock when he left, at the time he left. But my point is, they also complained about when Brock left too, at the time he left.

As for you examples, that's workers. If you are talking about fans, most reaction is positive.

[Hive]

Super Cena all over again??? God, i think i'm going to quit watching WWE. I'm done with them! Cena always wins. it's boring, it's washed up and making Lesnar return to lose his debut match isn't that smart of a business move. I'm done. Predictable ppv in every line and every single match...and the only surprise, Cena's win, comes out when it shouldn't! WWE sucks!

Like when Cena won against The Rock at WrestleMania? Or recently when he won against midcarder Lord Tensai on RAW? :rolleyes:

[Self]

Should have done some gambling on this show. Made £20 from Wrestlemania (#thanksKane) and considered putting some money down, but decided to retire from gambling while on top. I would have put money on Cena. Had a feeling.

Probably would have lost money on the other matches. Probably would have wagered on Kane again. Still, missed opportunity. Alas.

[milamber]

Kane v Orton - Started out average, got better toward the end. I'm ready for the feud to end.

Clay v Ziggler - Clay's first serious match. Result was never in doubt.

Show v Rhodes - Enjoyed this more than I thought I would. Rhodes' kick off of the table was cool and he took a real beating from Show. The ending was
unexpected.

Bryan v Sheamus - Both guys bought their A game and looked like they've been wrestling together for years. Fracking awesome match from start to
finish with top notch selling and storytelling!

Ryback on PPV! Trailbone breaker!

Jericho v Punk - A good match turned great thanks to the fire extinguisher stunt and Punk's WTF elbow off the turnbuckle onto the announce table.

Layla! About time she returned. Next up... Kharma.

Lesnar v Cena - Cena busted open in less than a minute??? A true brutal brawling match. The way they scripted the match made Lesnar look a champ in his prime. I actually enjoyed Cena winning after Lesnar took unnecessary chances at the end. Liked his speech at the end. Predicting Cena will take a month off and Johhny will line up a title shot for Lesnar against Punk at Over the Limit.

That was about as extreme a PPV as I can remember in recent years. The undercard matches were solid and the 3 main event matches lived up to
the hype. Lesnar v Cena and Bryan v Sheamus were my favourites.

[Basmat01]

Lesnar hated the schedule and left

I also heard that he wanted HHH, Undertaker type perks such as use of the WWE private jet.

[Arrows]

Brock lost to one chain shot, being dropped on his back during the arm bar on the steps, and a firemans takeover on the steps.

A champ in his prime?

A joke.

[Hyde Hill]

I really hope that you are either trolling or joking, because you sound like one of those teenage/kid "smarks" from other wrestling forums. This PPV was actually one of the least predictable ones in recent years. Plus, people stopped raging about Cena winning in 2008. I guess you didn't get the memo. :p

Least predictable? Apart from the Cena win, even tough it followed standard Cena recipe I didn't expect them to have Brock loose, they where all pretty straightforward and even telegraphed way in advance. Oh tables match -> Show somehow looses. Jericho Turnbuckle -> Punk wins . Danielson gives up first fall -> Sheamus wins. Rybeck vs Jobbers. Returning Diva and leaving Divas. Funkasaurus push. Orton Bigger star, Kane always threat even if looses a lot.

The whole telegraphed who won actually detracted from the p.p.v for me.

Edit: Apart from that 3 Good matches, 1 mediocre and the standard filler made for a pretty good ppv.

[Hyde Hill]

I also heard that he wanted HHH, Undertaker type perks such as use of the WWE private jet.

He already had the jet he wanted their schedule.

[Rone Rivendale]

Brock lost to one chain shot, being dropped on his back during the arm bar on the steps, and a firemans takeover on the steps.

A champ in his prime?

A joke.

You would be crying like a baby after any ONE of these 3 things.

And he didn't just lose to those 3 moves. He lost to those 3 moves AFTER exhausting himself for 15 minutes.

[bigtplaystew]

Least predictable? Apart from the Cena win, even tough it followed standard Cena recipe I didn't expect them to have Brock loose, they where all pretty straightforward and even telegraphed way in advance. Oh tables match -> Show somehow looses. Jericho Turnbuckle -> Punk wins . Danielson gives up first fall -> Sheamus wins. Rybeck vs Jobbers. Returning Diva and leaving Divas. Funkasaurus push. Orton Bigger star, Kane always threat even if looses a lot.

It's a shame you didnt make these bold predictions before the event. Then we could all acknowledge you as the seer of all things WWE. Instead, you took a fairly well received PPV and chose to minimize each outcome.

[Arrows]

You would be crying like a baby after any ONE of these 3 things.

And he didn't just lose to those 3 moves. He lost to those 3 moves AFTER exhausting himself for 15 minutes.

The drop on his back was meh at best. You slug me in the face with a chain and yea, I'm going down.

I'm NOT Brock Lesnar.

The man can wrestle an EPIC match with Kurt, damn near kill himself, get back up and win the world title, but a chain shot, the weakest back bump ever, and a firemans takedown on some steps was enough to take him down after 15 minutes of him just utterly destroying someone?

He's taken far worse and just smiled.

[SaySo]

The drop on his back was meh at best. You slug me in the face with a chain and yea, I'm going down.

I'm NOT Brock Lesnar.

The man can wrestle an EPIC match with Kurt, damn near kill himself, get back up and win the world title, but a chain shot, the weakest back bump ever, and a firemans takedown on some steps was enough to take him down after 15 minutes of him just utterly destroying someone?

He's taken far worse and just smiled.

Brock Lesnar i remembered --> http://youtu.be/SGqxcxFVKAQ?t=3m53s

[Hyde Hill]

It's a shame you didnt make these bold predictions before the event. Then we could all acknowledge you as the seer of all things WWE. Instead, you took a fairly well received PPV and chose to minimize each outcome.

I saw it as I was watching the show. No way for me to prove that is the case or for you to disprove. And like I said it was a very good show.

[Astil]

You would be crying like a baby after any ONE of these 3 things.

And he didn't just lose to those 3 moves. He lost to those 3 moves AFTER exhausting himself for 15 minutes.

And tweeking himself falling out of the ring. Don't forget that, that was a sick bump

[Arrows]

And tweeking himself falling out of the ring. Don't forget that, that was a sick bump

Still.

Miz took more of a beating than Brock, and beat Cena.

Miz is more of a bad ass than Brock.

Need I say more?

[SaySo]

Brock looked bad #*! the last UFC match he was in. Via Tap Out.

[Astil]

Still.

Miz took more of a beating than Brock, and beat Cena.

Miz is more of a bad ass than Brock.

Need I say more?

Except not even close. Brock just has a glass jaw.

[Arrows]

Except not even close. Brock just has a glass jaw.

I just, don't get it.

You have the ability to make him look ANY way you want. So you job him in 3 moves? Why not actually make him look good? I thought we were finally over the "Cena beats everyone with the lamest moves ever and makes them all look like complete dog crap" booking WWE had going for so long.

Right back to it now, and it ruined what was a solid PPV. 2 more minutes with Cena getting some kind of actual offense would've made all the difference in the world and not hurt anything.

[Astil]

I just, don't get it.

You have the ability to make him look ANY way you want. So you job him in 3 moves? Why not actually make him look good? I thought we were finally over the "Cena beats everyone with the lamest moves ever and makes them all look like complete dog crap" booking WWE had going for so long.

Right back to it now, and it ruined what was a solid PPV. 2 more minutes with Cena getting some kind of actual offense would've made all the difference in the world and not hurt anything.

I disagree, now it looks like a fluke win, and plays into the rematch "I beat you're a-- for 30 minutes and you got a lucky punch"

[Bull]

I think people are forgetting that UFC Brock Lesnar and WWE Brock Lesnar are not the same thing, Even if Brock does forget it himself sometimes judging by those elbows he was throwing at the begining of the Cena vs Lesnar match.

It really makes no difference how badass Brock is in real life because in WWE he is just a character. I'd say he isn't acting much different than he does for real, but he is still more or less just playing a character. I would be willing to bet that if Brock hadn't been as successful in the UFC as he was there would be absolutely no mention of it by the WWE. The only reason they are even mentioning it now is because they want to make him seem more intimidating and menacing. While I agree it is useless to do that if they are just gonna have him lose in his first match back, I also see no real reason to flip out because of it either. It just seems people are so set on comparing Real life Brock Lesnar to WWE Character Brock Lesnar that they forget that in pro wrestling anybody can lose.

[Self]

Still think Brock should have covered up and fled like a coward the second Cena caught him on the jaw. Flailing about in a wild panic until he can take Cena down for some good ol' fashioned lay & pray. Resthold!

I know folks want Brock to be a bad ass/babyface, but that's a heel right there.

[Arrows]

I think people are forgetting that UFC Brock Lesnar and WWE Brock Lesnar are not the same thing, Even if Brock does forget it himself sometimes judging by those elbows he was throwing at the begining of the Cena vs Lesnar match.

It really makes no difference how badass Brock is in real life because in WWE he is just a character. I'd say he isn't acting much different than he does for real, but he is still more or less just playing a character. I would be willing to bet that if Brock hadn't been as successful in the UFC as he was there would be absolutely no mention of it by the WWE. The only reason they are even mentioning it now is because they want to make him seem more intimidating and menacing. While I agree it is useless to do that if they are just gonna have him lose in his first match back, I also see no real reason to flip out because of it either. It just seems people are so set on comparing Real life Brock Lesnar to WWE Character Brock Lesnar that they forget that in pro wrestling anybody can lose.

They have the chance to book him to be an absolute beast. That's the way they were making him out to be. He could be unrealisticly beastly, like Cena is super human, if they wanted.

NOPE.

The man they push as the baddest man in the promotion, can't take a shot. WHY? Of ALL the ways to book it. WHY make him look weak? What good comes out of ruining a month's build to being the legit threat?

Why should anyone care about Brock now? He's just some jacked up wimp.

[Astil]

Still think Brock should have covered up and fled like a coward the second Cena caught him on the jaw. Flailing about in a wild panic until he can take Cena down for some good ol' fashioned lay & pray. Resthold!

I know folks want Brock to be a bad ass/babyface, but that's a heel right there.

Agreed. That'd sell the whole he's BA until he gets rocked. Aren't there a bunch of MMA guys like that anyway.

What build? Brock cheap shot-ing Cena and back attacking. He's a heel and a sneaky arrogant one at that. More Edge than Kane.

[Bull]

They have the chance to book him to be an absolute beast. That's the way they were making him out to be. He could be unrealisticly beastly, like Cena is super human, if they wanted.

NOPE.

The man they push as the baddest man in the promotion, can't take a shot. WHY? Of ALL the ways to book it. WHY make him look weak? What good comes out of ruining a month's build to being the legit threat?

Why should anyone care about Brock now? He's just some jacked up wimp.

I'm sorry I just don't see how it made him look weak. Cena had to smash him in the head with a steel chain before he could beat him, all other moves excluded. Lesar was demolishing Cena with his own hands, not weapons, and after those first elbow shots real or not I was genuinely afraid that Lesnar was gonna seriously hurt Cena on purpose.

In my opinion they did book him to be an absolute beast, because it took Cena using a steel chain to the jaw and and AA to the steel steps to beat him, while Lesnar needed only his bare hands, because technically Lesnar had him beat with that F5 he hit while the ref was out.

If you look at it strictly based on who won and who lost then you will obviously be upset, and more power to you if thats how you feel, and thats all you want to look at, but to me there is at least a little bit more to it that just winning and losing. Again I agree that the best option they could have used would have seen Brock winning, but the way they booked Cena to win is not, I repeat not the absolute worst way they could have done it, and making it out like it is just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

[Arrows]

I'm sorry I just don't see how it made him look weak. Cena had to smash him in the head with a steel chain before he could beat him, all other moves excluded. Lesar was demolishing Cena with his own hands, not weapons, and after those first elbow shots real or not I was genuinely afraid that Lesnar was gonna seriously hurt Cena on purpose.

In my opinion they did book him to be an absolute beast, because it took Cena using a steel chain to the jaw and and AA to the steel steps to beat him, while Lesnar needed only his bare hands, because technically Lesnar had him beat with that F5 he hit while the ref was out.

If you look at it strictly based on who won and who lost then you will obviously be upset, and more power to you if thats how you feel, and thats all you want to look at, but to me there is at least a little bit more to it that just winning and losing. Again I agree that the best option they could have used would have seen Brock winning, but the way they booked Cena to win is not, I repeat not the absolute worst way they could have done it, and making it out like it is just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

I have no problem with Cena winning the match. I just have a problem with Lesnar being completely destroyed by one punch with a chain. I've seen the man take FAR worse and not even be phased. I've seen a LOT of people take far worse and manage to kick out.

Yet the baddest man the promotion's ever seen, can't take a shot.

[Hulkamaniac85]

Some of the stuff on these boards is just ridiculous. The man dominates Cena for like 20 minutes, making him look like the biggest whimp on the planet, but just because Cena finds a way to win that means they made Brock look weak?? They made Brock look way bad-a in this match, and then following the match by refusing medical help. If anything this match elevated both of these guys. It was a tremendous match, some of the best stuff I've seen from the WWE in years in my opinion (and I am not a Brock Lesnar fan, I hate the guy in fact).

It seems like people just like to complain. This was a good ppv. Not perfect, none are ever perfect, but as a follow up to Wrestlemania, it was absolutely epic. Just my opinion.

Also, that Punk/Jericho match was just freaking awesome. 2 best performers in the WWE right now for sure.

[djthefunkchris]

All I can say is it's about time Cena won a match for a change.

Didn't pay for this thing, didn't watch it, but looking at the thread sounded pretty good. Probably should have, but had family matters to attend to.

I would have had Cena lose though.... Just me, he's perfect for getting his butt whipped right now, and over and over again could really make for a good story in itself I think. I seen all the debates about it, but to me, especially if Cena was going to take time off anyways, I would have had Lesnar win, then go after Punk and win that as well. Punk tries again, Lesnar wins, etc... Then have Cena come back and .... Lose again. This could be a year long thing trying to dethrone him, but obviously it's not a smart way to go since he's "part-time" instead of a real worker.

[akujy]

It's amazing how some people don't even want to let us have our opinion. I did watch the show and it was predictable before the beginning.

Big Show vs. Rhodes - that was the only match that really could end any way, besides the main event, as we all knew that Show wouldn't keep the title for long, the question was, when would he lose it?

As a match it worked out great, and the finish was unexpected.

Bryan vs. Sheamus - Can't get more predictable than this. The man won the title in 18 secs at Mania and has since been pushed as a dominant face. Did anyone really believed he would lose this match? C'mon! You guys are smart, clever guys. This was pretty obvious.

It was a very good match, but it's hard (for me at least) to get behind a match whem most of the card is predictable.

Punk vs. Jericho - Super over champion defends against part-timer who will tour soon. Need i to say more?

THey did a great job on the ring, sure, but we all knew who the winner would be.

Brock vs. Cena - Really thought Brock would win this one, until i saw him beating the crap out of Cena. How fun it would have been to see him win, go to "Raw starring Brock Lesnar" and establish himself as the man for a few weeks, until someone (possibly Punk, for example) would win and get order back on Raw. Great work by both guys in the ring. My problem is not just Cena wining, it's him winning as super Cena. I can definitely understand that he won, as it would be wrong to put a part time as the face of the company for long. What bothers me is that they could have booked it differently, to have Brock winning, with the fans in shock, as he would now "own" Raw, and that would not last long because he's a part timer, so Punk, as champion would beat him and restore Raw to normality. And Cena losing would only help further what could have been a good storyline. Would he be the same after his return? Could he overcome a losing streak?

Or would he lash out? I mean, there was a lot of fun things to to with the Storyline if Brock won. That's what upsets me. I'm not saying thay can't do other things now, but as a fan, my opinion is that i would have like to see the outcome of a Cena defeat. So, Cena wining a part timer, who goes back and forward between businesses as it pleases him and his interests (Please don't compare him to the rock, Rock loves the busines, Brock doesn't) isn't really a big deal for me. I jut think they would have a more interesting way to go if he lost. My opinion, i have the right to it, and i'm not bashing anyone's opinions, so please don't to that to mine. Some of you guys must remember you are not the owners of the truth. I didn't attack anyone, just gave my 2 cents then, still giving them now. And i'm not even mentioning names. Everyone has the right to speak their minds.

So...it was a good PPVwhen it comes to the actual matches, can't argue there, but the results were predictable, and i didn't like some of them. I have the right to do so.

Ps: They could have at least let the Big Show make 1 successfull title defense. I may be wrong, but he never defended the title since Mania, right? He could have won yesterday, and he could have lost it today, or friday. But nothing against him losing the strap. Sorry for the long rant.

[Bull]

It's amazing how some people don't even want to let us have our opinion. I did watch the show and it was predictable before the beginning.

I have never truly understood the argument about a show being predictable. Its pro wrestling. Its scripted so there is always going to be a level of predictability, especially on lower level pay per view's like this one, and especially for a "Smart Fan". I read the spoilers for smackdown every week and still watch it on Friday's when I can and even knowing what happens I don't let it lessen my enjoyment of the show.

People should know by now that WWE is gonna do what they want to do, and what you, me, or anybody thinks is the best choice may or may not be what WWE thinks is the best choice. By this point I would think people would know better than to expect WWE to make the choices we want them to at every single opportunity.

[Fantabulous]

The main thing I've learned from the post-Extreme Rules discussion here is that you're only complaining if you disliked the Lesnar/Cena finish. Otherwise, you're just expressing an opinion and that's OK.

[Bull]

The main thing I've learned from the post-Extreme Rules discussion here is that you're only complaining if you disliked the Lesnar/Cena finish. Otherwise, you're just expressing an opinion and that's OK.

Right. I usually don't include myself in these discussions, and usually just stick to reading what everyone else has to say, but here lately I've been adding my two cents in here and there.

It seems to me that people build up so much love and hate for certain workers that they start bashing everything within a certain radius when said wrestlers aren't booked how they feel they should be. I've said it probably a hundred times in my last few posts that I agree Brock should have won the match, but I guess I've just come to expect so little of what I want to see from WWE or TNA for that matter. that it doesn't phase me anymore when they don't do things the way I think it should be done. With that, I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember and to be quite honest there isn't much any company can do, regardless of how moronic I think it may be that will make me any less of a fan of the business. I might not watch it for a while but I will always come back to it good or bad to at least see how things are going. Needless to say I will never be one of these people, who get so pissed at one decision, to say "I will never watch this crap again!", because I just plain enjoy watching it.

Sorry for the long mostly off topic post.:p

[Astil]

Who's not letting you have an opinion. I respect Arrows quiet a bit and anyone else who shares his opinion. Just disagree with it.

I have no problem with Cena winning the match. I just have a problem with Lesnar being completely destroyed by one punch with a chain. I've seen the man take FAR worse and not even be phased. I've seen a LOT of people take far worse and manage to kick out.

Yet the baddest man the promotion's ever seen, can't take a shot.

Undertaker says 'sup

I guess taking old WWE Brock into account I can see where you're coming from but I'm viewing this as a whole new character.

haven't seen this discussed yet, but I loved the Zack Ryder inclusion in the Kane - Orton brawl. Nice touch.

[Arrows]

Who's not letting you have an opinion. I respect Arrows quiet a bit and anyone else who shares his opinion. Just disagree with it.



Undertaker says 'sup

I guess taking old WWE Brock into account I can see where you're coming from but I'm viewing this as a whole new character.

haven't seen this discussed yet, but I loved the Zack Ryder inclusion in the Kane - Orton brawl. Nice touch.

A character who can only take one shot in a match before he's completely screwed.

[Astil]

A character who can only take one shot in a match before he's completely screwed.

Glass jaw, as I said. It'd be an interesting gimmick. Great ground game, freakishly strong, glass jaw.

[akujy]

Right. I usually don't include myself in these discussions, and usually just stick to reading what everyone else has to say, but here lately I've been adding my two cents in here and there.

It seems to me that people build up so much love and hate for certain workers that they start bashing everything within a certain radius when said wrestlers aren't booked how they feel they should be. I've said it probably a hundred times in my last few posts that I agree Brock should have won the match, but I guess I've just come to expect so little of what I want to see from WWE or TNA for that matter. that it doesn't phase me anymore when they don't do things the way I think it should be done. With that, I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember and to be quite honest there isn't much any company can do, regardless of how moronic I think it may be that will make me any less of a fan of the business. I might not watch it for a while but I will always come back to it good or bad to at least see how things are going. Needless to say I will never be one of these people, who get so pissed at one decision, to say "I will never watch this crap again!", because I just plain enjoy watching it.

Sorry for the long mostly off topic post.:p

This. It's totally true. Can't deny it. It's like we're backing a soccer team, or football, or basket and it loses, we don't like it, and we criticize the coache's options and we say what we think he or the team could have done better. Nothing wrong with it. I, and i speak for myself, am aware that things won't always go on as we want to, but as long as they can keep us invested in a storyline, as they did in this one, than at least they're doing their job well. That doesn't mean some of us won't complain when someone we want to see winning, loses.
i'm also aware that there's a bigger picture to look, and we have to wait and see how it turns out. As long as they keep me invested in it, fine by me. But i will always like or dislike some of their options and will openly say it. It's what i did, it's what the other guys probably did. So i lashed out a little bit, just like the football fan that saw his team lose, but as i said, as long as they keep in interesting, i will watch. It's pretty normal to be a bit vocal at the end of a ppv when something we dislike happens, i didn't insult any of you, just got a little mad with my "team" (in this case the wwe), but all in the limits of normality. Let's see what Raw has for us today.

Ps: Also loved the Ryder inclusion. And if it did last a bit longer, it would have been even better. But it worked well.

[Zeel1]

Glass jaw, as I said. It'd be an interesting gimmick. Great ground game, freakishly strong, glass jaw.

That actually might be feasible. Not that hard to take down if you can actually do anything of significance to him, the issue is that he's pummeling you so viciously, it's near-impossible to do. That may actually be the only way to make him work if he's going to be wrestling all that commonly, I mean if he's gonna destroy Cena like that, I doubt pretty much anyone else on the roster would do much better, so playing him as a massive Glass Cannon (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GlassCannon) might be a way of keeping beating him a possibility.

[Arrows]

Glass jaw, as I said. It'd be an interesting gimmick. Great ground game, freakishly strong, glass jaw.

ANYONE who can't land one lucky shot, is a complete joke. No one can have ANY actual offense against Brock, or he has to be dead from the first 1-2 shots. So no good matches, at all? Yeah, great gimmick.

[Hyde Hill]

I think that was in reference to Ryder not Lesnar the glass jaw gimmick. Decent one for a midcard sympathy jobber.

[Astil]

ANYONE who can't land one lucky shot, is a complete joke. No one can have ANY actual offense against Brock, or he has to be dead from the first 1-2 shots. So no good matches, at all? Yeah, great gimmick.

Except Brock took a slam to stairs and that nasty spill before that shot and was doing the 'I'm crazy I love pain' schtick. Dude has to be rocked in the face to be beaten. Rocked in the face.

I think that was in reference to Ryder not Lesnar the glass jaw gimmick. Decent one for a midcard sympathy jobber.

nah, I'm talking about Brock.

[Hyde Hill]

Except Brock took a slam to stairs and that nasty spill before that shot and was doing the 'I'm crazy I love pain' schtick. Dude has to be rocked in the face to be beaten. Rocked in the face.



nah, I'm talking about Brock.

Ok read it wrong and yeah, very bad gimmick for ME level talent imho.

[Astil]

Ok read it wrong and yeah, very bad gimmick for ME level talent imho.

He can dominate everyone under the ME and lose to Main Eventers. I think it works well, especially as he isn't full time.

[The Final Countdown]

I didn't watch the PPV, but getting beat by Cena's finisher onto the ring steps seems pretty reasonable to me, regardless of how big a badass the character might be.

I still think Brock should've won, don't get me wrong. I just don't understand why people are objecting to the way he lost. If Brock was going to lose, him physically dominating Cena for most of the match before getting caught with a shot and FU/AA'ed onto the steps seems like a pretty good way to do it.

[crownsy]

I didn't watch the PPV, but getting beat by Cena's finisher onto the ring steps seems pretty reasonable to me, regardless of how big a badass the character might be.

I still think Brock should've won, don't get me wrong. I just don't understand why people are objecting to the way he lost. If Brock was going to lose, him physically dominating Cena for most of the match before getting caught with a shot and FU/AA'ed onto the steps seems like a pretty good way to do it.

Yea, i don't really get this argument either.

I mean, i guess spoilers since people DVR but...(in white)

Especially the way their playing it tonight. Brock just flat out murdered triple H. Cena, is apparently going to sell his freaking arm is broken and he needs time off. So yes, Brock took his eye off the ball but they are playing it like he pretty much put cena on the shelf.

He just destroyed triple H and looks like an unstoppable killing machine. I'm pretty sure there not going to job him every main event guys.

With the finsh last night they got everything they wanted

1. Brock is super over as a badass, and they can give cena some time off. Also the brutality of last night and the opening segment lets them use lesnar to bring some pg-13 edginess back

2. when cena does come back, I expect it to be to "save" the WWE. plenty of match ups for brock to go with (orton, shemus, punk) before that happens

3. Never mind now he can go at hunter too.



I really don't see why people are acting like losing from being hit in the face with a steel chain and taking the most over guy in the company's finisher on top of steel steps makes you some sort of joke when the same guy sat thier a bloody mess and pretty much said

"yea i got lucky, my arm is broken, i'm going to be out awhile"

[ampulator]

I didn't watch the PPV, but getting beat by Cena's finisher onto the ring steps seems pretty reasonable to me, regardless of how big a badass the character might be.

I still think Brock should've won, don't get me wrong. I just don't understand why people are objecting to the way he lost. If Brock was going to lose, him physically dominating Cena for most of the match before getting caught with a shot and FU/AA'ed onto the steps seems like a pretty good way to do it.
This is an old school tactic that has been in wrestling has had for years. People would beat up Ric Flair, just for him to bring out the brass knuckles out of his trunks, bean you in the face with it, and then do a pin. Or he would do a sudden School Boy Pin while holding the shorts, after getting tossed around for half an hour. Ric would sell the heck out of everything, too.

[crownsy]

Loved some parts of raw, hated the ending.

Loved:

Brock destroying hunter, going on a rampage

Bryan winning beat the clock, punk coming out and telling him to bring it on, should be a great match!

Hated:

ugh. we couldn't have given john cena the month off? great speech last night getting even some of those he hated on his side a bit, then they ruin it tonigh tby bringing him back to go ""oh ho ho!! lucky me i avoided serious injury!!"

and for what, a throw away match with Johnny ace? gag me.

Also, dear WWE, lord tensia isn't working. I'm sorry, i know someone in creative thought a fat ninja was a great idea, but no one cares.

[djthefunkchris]

Also, dear WWE, lord tensia isn't working. I'm sorry, i know someone in creative thought a fat ninja was a great idea, but no one cares.

I don't have a problem with his weight or his ring work. It IS the gimmick. I don't mind that they are playing off his Japan run at all, in fact I like it when they do this with anyone (Let people know what they been doing, where they worked or whatever).

What I don't like is an "OBVIOUS" familiar face, acting like he's now asian, complete with customs and all. IF he were actually from Japan it would work for me. I feel they should have had him be more himself, someone that has learned from being there, and utilizing it here.

As I said, I don't have a problem with his ring work or his weight or anything else physical, it's all about the gimmick. I just can't buy into it.

[ampulator]

Dudes, it's Prince Albert. I think they are giving him the wrong gimmick. All they need to is have him a a menacing badass. It doesn't need to something out-of-character like being from Japan. I haven't seen a lot of his Japan work, but he seems a better fit there than here... if it weren't for the fact that Pro-Wrestling in Japan isn't doing too well these days.

[Genadi]

I still think Brock should've won, don't get me wrong. I just don't understand why people are objecting to the way he lost. If Brock was going to lose, him physically dominating Cena for most of the match before getting caught with a shot and FU/AA'ed onto the steps seems like a pretty good way to do it.

Dominated him to the point I thought halfway through "Why are they burying Cena so bad". It wasn't most of the match it was the whole match. I've never seen a main event for a PPV so one sided. Cena got the pinfall yes but he didn't win.

[crownsy]

Dudes, it's Prince Albert. I think they are giving him the wrong gimmick. All they need to is have him a a menacing badass. It doesn't need to something out-of-character like being from Japan. I haven't seen a lot of his Japan work, but he seems a better fit there than here... if it weren't for the fact that Pro-Wrestling in Japan isn't doing too well these days.

Would you really be ok with him being a main eventer if he was still albert?

listen, i like albert, but at best he's a part time upper midcarder, as someone's hired muscle. I think they totally overestimated the fans reaction to him returning.

I mean, nice to see him back. he should be feuding with the funkasuraus not main eventers.

[ampulator]

Would you really be ok with him being a main eventer if he was still albert?
Not really. Then again, they could do worse. He's improved, alright, but he was never more than a midcarder to me.

[akujy]

Lord Tensai? That is one awful gimmick and a push made too fast. And that is one awful gimmick. And that breathing and screaming and all? Dear God! That is one awful gimmick even for a midcarder, let alone a ME. And they can't find a better guy to ME then A-Train? That is one awful gimmick! I'll say no more. :D

[bigtplaystew]

Punk vs Bryan is incredible news. They've had some killer TV matches. I'm very excited over what we might get to see at the PPV.

[crownsy]

Punk vs Bryan is incredible news. They've had some killer TV matches. I'm very excited over what we might get to see at the PPV.

Agreed. when they announced lawler i expected some swerve like AJ coming down and letting king make it past the limit, or Bryan being over confident and the wily veteran surviving past the time limit ect.

Was awesome they just let him actually do what a heel should do there and just beat the legend ASAP, much to the crowd's dismay (or in this case, delight since bryan is over ha.)

should be a good match, plus even if Bryan loses (which i expect) but takes punk to the limit in an awesome match (also expect), it legitimizes Bryan way more than sending him back to the mid card ala Ziggler/miz and keeping him on standby till another UMC/ME fued.

[moon_lit_tears]

Not liking the result of the beat the clock matches.

Would have loved to see Randy win that.

This whole farce with John L is getting old. He's really not able to play his part very well. They need to change that up. Get someone new in there and shake things up more.

[djthefunkchris]

Not liking the result of the beat the clock matches.

Would have loved to see Randy win that.

This whole farce with John L is getting old. He's really not able to play his part very well. They need to change that up. Get someone new in there and shake things up more.

I disagree, I'm liking him in that spot. I'd bet he can still do a match, at least better then Vince could. Something I feel has been needed for a while now. He's just way to easy to make fun of as well. Then there is that believable factor in there, that he really is as dumb as he seems, and just getting in with the right people. Then there is the fact of his actual job for WWE, so... basically for me he is perfect for the role, at least right now.

[Astil]

Would have loved to see Randy win that.


No! No! No!

[djthefunkchris]

No! No! No!

I thought it was "Yes! Yes! Yes!"?

[Jaysin]

I want Orton to stay away from Big Gold/WWE titles for as long as possible.

[Astil]

I thought it was "Yes! Yes! Yes!"?

Si! Si! Si!

but not for Orton. he gets 'No's from me, lol. (Although he was good in the Extreme Rules brawl)

[Hive]

I like Orton but he doesn't really need to be involved with either belt right now. He should feud with someone like Ziggler, get someone elevated.

[Astil]

I like Orton but he doesn't really need to be involved with either belt right now. He should feud with someone like Ziggler, get someone elevated.

Or Dean Ambrose :)

[Jaysin]

Or Dean Ambrose :)

So Ambrose can carry Orton through promos?

I'd prefer someone that's actually good at promos be Ambrose's first feud.

[bigtplaystew]

Wait... you think Dean Ambrose cuts a better promo than Orton? For realz?

[moon_lit_tears]

No! No! No!

I like Orton but he doesn't really need to be involved with either belt right now. He should feud with someone like Ziggler, get someone elevated.


I REALLY hate Ziggler...

[akujy]

Punk vs Bryan is incredible news. They've had some killer TV matches. I'm very excited over what we might get to see at the PPV.

Best news WWE gave us in a while. It's a win-win situation, regardless of who wins. High expectations for this one!

[crownsy]

I REALLY hate Ziggler...

To each his own, to me Dolph is one of their greatest UMC heels. Phenomenal worker, great move set, and for my money the best seller in the company.

Hell he makes Brodus Clay's offense look legit.

What i can't figure out is who told him that pink butt towel look was a good idea?

[Jaysin]

Wait... you think Dean Ambrose cuts a better promo than Orton? For realz?

Orton is a blackhole of charisma and his monotone voice drives me insane. He just drones on and on and on.

Ambrose is an above average wrestler and has insane mic skills and charisma.

[Jaysin]

http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/5064/breaking-update-brock-lesnar-flips-out-backstage

Annndd Lesnar cries like a little baby.

[bigtplaystew]

See, to me, the only way to judge a good promo is look at the drawing power of a wrestler. Of course there are alot of factors that work into drawing power, I just see no other way to gauge good promo work beyond personal opinion other than to look at the money.

Randy Orton, love him or hate him, is a major draw for the WWE and has been over the years. He's dropped to upper mid card but he's a guy who can be back in the main event picture at any moment. He's headlined wrestlemanias. Sold PPVs. Put butts in seats.

With all due respect to Dean Ambrose, of whom I happen to be a big fan, he's just not at Orton's level yet. I see a ton of potential tho, Jaysin and I'm sure we agree he could be a big big part of the company in the future.

But until he sells out big shows like Randy has, I'm giving Orton the nod for promo work. He simply has drawn more money with his promo work than Ambrose.

[Arrows]

See, to me, the only way to judge a good promo is look at the drawing power of a wrestler. Of course there are alot of factors that work into drawing power, I just see no other way to gauge good promo work beyond personal opinion other than to look at the money.

Randy Orton, love him or hate him, is a major draw for the WWE and has been over the years. He's dropped to upper mid card but he's a guy who can be back in the main event picture at any moment. He's headlined wrestlemanias. Sold PPVs. Put butts in seats.

With all due respect to Dean Ambrose, of whom I happen to be a big fan, he's just not at Orton's level yet. I see a ton of potential tho, Jaysin and I'm sure we agree he could be a big big part of the company in the future.

But until he sells out big shows like Randy has, I'm giving Orton the nod for promo work. He simply has drawn more money with his promo work than Ambrose.

Not hard to out draw someone with millions dumped behind you and 20 bucks in his corner.

[Astil]

See, to me, the only way to judge a good promo is look at the drawing power of a wrestler. Of course there are alot of factors that work into drawing power, I just see no other way to gauge good promo work beyond personal opinion other than to look at the money.

Randy Orton, love him or hate him, is a major draw for the WWE and has been over the years. He's dropped to upper mid card but he's a guy who can be back in the main event picture at any moment. He's headlined wrestlemanias. Sold PPVs. Put butts in seats.

With all due respect to Dean Ambrose, of whom I happen to be a big fan, he's just not at Orton's level yet. I see a ton of potential tho, Jaysin and I'm sure we agree he could be a big big part of the company in the future.

But until he sells out big shows like Randy has, I'm giving Orton the nod for promo work. He simply has drawn more money with his promo work than Ambrose.

By that argument at one point Ken Doane was a better promo worker than CM Punk because he was higher on the card.

[akujy]

http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/5064/breaking-update-brock-lesnar-flips-out-backstage

Annndd Lesnar cries like a little baby.

So...WWE hires him to job? Can't say i didn't saw that one coming. :D I knew Vince wouldn't forget the way he left in 04. And Vince always gets his revenge. I know he's a part-time worker and all, but some people actually expected him to be something more than used to put top talent over. A little more then some people, judging by the post PPV reactions. Oh well, i guess Lesnar's stint with the company will stick to it's original 1 year deal.

[Fantabulous]

http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/5064/breaking-update-brock-lesnar-flips-out-backstage

Annndd Lesnar cries like a little baby.

And marks fall for the bait.

[akujy]

Forgot to say: I also find it funny that the company will struggle to find ideas to keep him in and out of storylines, this from a company that virtually runned Taker feuds without him even setting foot on the TV shows. And Taker is just one of the cases. IF i get uspet by something is hearing that writers can't come up with ideas for something. Please, c'mon! Writers are suposed to have imagination, or they shouldn't be writers, and there are a lot of ways of making him feud with only 2 appearences a month without the need to explaing anything at all!

[bigtplaystew]

By that argument at one point Ken Doane was a better promo worker than CM Punk because he was higher on the card.


There's a difference between comparing a bonafide main eventer versus an indy star. A guy being higher on the card is a completely different discussion. I'm just talking about successful work. A good promo worker draws money.

Either way. at that point in their career, I don't think either Punk or Doane were drawing much money on their own. In 2012, Orton's drawn alot more money than Ambrose, any arguments there?

As far as personal opinion goes, we're all entitled to that. I can't say Jaysin's wrong because he isn't. He doesn't enjoy Orton's work but he enjoys Ambrose's. That's reasonable. I was just making the argument for why I feel Orton's probably the better promo worker.

[Fantabulous]

Forgot to say: I also find it funny that the company will struggle to find ideas to keep him in and out of storylines, this from a company that virtually runned Taker feuds without him even setting foot on the TV shows. And Taker is just one of the cases. IF i get uspet by something is hearing that writers can't come up with ideas for something. Please, c'mon! Writers are suposed to have imagination, or they shouldn't be writers, and there are a lot of ways of making him feud with only 2 appearences a month without the need to explaing anything at all!

Only in wrestling can creative fail to come up with an idea and the wrestler be the one to get fired over it.

[Astil]

There's a difference between comparing a bonafide main eventer versus an indy star. A guy being higher on the card is a completely different discussion. I'm just talking about successful work. A good promo worker draws money.

Either way. at that point in their career, I don't think either Punk or Doane were drawing much money on their own. In 2012, Orton's drawn alot more money than Ambrose, any arguments there?

As far as personal opinion goes, we're all entitled to that. I can't say Jaysin's wrong because he isn't. He doesn't enjoy Orton's work but he enjoys Ambrose's. That's reasonable. I was just making the argument for why I feel Orton's probably the better promo worker.

Okay take Doane out, put in Bobby Lashley, who was a main eventer. Or Batista. You going to argue Batista cuts a better promo than Punk? I feel this arguement is flawed.

I actually agree with you that Orton cuts a better promo than Ambrose/Moxley but I like Orton's promo work, hate him in the ring.

[Self]

Personally, I'd say Orton has never really drawn based on his talking ability. The majority of his appeal seems to come from his presence, his working ability, and how he's been pushed. Which is awesome. More power to him. I dig it. He doesn't really need to talk though.

I find Dean Ambrose more entertaining to listen to, which I guess is what others are saying too. Ultimately, the mark of an effective promo is one that talk butts into seats, but there's something to be said of being a captivating, engaging, charismatic public speaker. Arguably something Ambrose has over Orton, who as I stated, has a lot of other advantages he relies on than just talking.

[Hyde Hill]

See, to me, the only way to judge a good promo is look at the drawing power of a wrestler. Of course there are alot of factors that work into drawing power, I just see no other way to gauge good promo work beyond personal opinion other than to look at the money.

Randy Orton, love him or hate him, is a major draw for the WWE and has been over the years. He's dropped to upper mid card but he's a guy who can be back in the main event picture at any moment. He's headlined wrestlemanias. Sold PPVs. Put butts in seats.

With all due respect to Dean Ambrose, of whom I happen to be a big fan, he's just not at Orton's level yet. I see a ton of potential tho, Jaysin and I'm sure we agree he could be a big big part of the company in the future.

But until he sells out big shows like Randy has, I'm giving Orton the nod for promo work. He simply has drawn more money with his promo work than Ambrose.

Horse, Cart wrong way.

Dislike both Orton (boring) and Ziggler (cookie cutter, overrated by IWC atm just like Miz last year, and even worse promo).

BTW anybody else kinda frowning on a Smackdown guy and an old announcer guy being in the top ten for the top RAW belt. Ace can prolly explain it away easy but still bleh.

If Smackdown guys can now even challenge for the titles in such a direct way lets just totally end the split please.

[akujy]

Only in wrestling can creative fail to come up with an idea and the wrestler be the one to get fired over it.

True. Though Fox mainly used this explanation with the Jennifer Morrison's dismissal of House, when in fact we all know that it was nothing more then a budget cut. There was a lot to do with Cameron, but they chose to stay with a part-time Olivia Wilde, oh well. But yeah, only in wrestling we see that happening, at least at this level.

[bigtplaystew]

Okay take Doane out, put in Bobby Lashley, who was a main eventer. Or Batista. You going to argue Batista cuts a better promo than Punk? I feel this arguement is flawed.

I actually agree with you that Orton cuts a better promo than Ambrose/Moxley but I like Orton's promo work, hate him in the ring.

Look I said there are other factors that go into drawing power. In general, good promos draw money. This isn't debatable really. Are there exceptions? For sure.

We can always have personal favorites and what not, but a good way to look at promo work objectively is to look at a measurable expression of success: Money.

So of course I'm speaking generally here. But reasonably, just look at a guy's path and what brought him success. I doubt anyone thinks Lashley's promo work made him a success. Obviously, Orton's promo work contributed to his.

[Hyde Hill]

Only in wrestling can creative fail to come up with an idea and the wrestler be the one to get fired over it.

On a similar note, a winner of a televised talent contest for a contract, which he already had, be released while some of the people that where eliminated well before him, and even first, due to lack of talent/passion etc be under contract and on television while even better talent never got signed.

[Hyde Hill]

Look I said there are other factors that go into drawing power. In general, good promos draw money. This isn't debatable really. Are there exceptions? For sure.



That is not what or how you said it first. But yeah good promo skills can be a good factor in drawing money. Although on a side not in this day and age individual wrestlers, even ME, are not that big a factor in drawing as before imho.

But taking a TEW example for me Orton has mediocre mic skills, they just made the character fit his style of promo's, but good charisma, for some, and acting skills, that fit the character, and very good star quality and a hell of a push.

[akujy]

On a similar note, a winner of a televised talent contest for a contract, which he already had, be released while some of the people that where eliminated well before him, and even first, due to lack of talent/passion etc be under contract and on television while even better talent never got signed.

Can you be more clear? I didn't got that one. Who are you talking about?

[bigtplaystew]

That is not what or how you said it first.


No? Maybe you might want to look at my post where I originally made my point:

See, to me, the only way to judge a good promo is look at the drawing power of a wrestler. Of course there are alot of factors that work into drawing power, I just see no other way to gauge good promo work beyond personal opinion other than to look at the money.

Randy Orton, love him or hate him, is a major draw for the WWE and has been over the years. He's dropped to upper mid card but he's a guy who can be back in the main event picture at any moment. He's headlined wrestlemanias. Sold PPVs. Put butts in seats.

With all due respect to Dean Ambrose, of whom I happen to be a big fan, he's just not at Orton's level yet. I see a ton of potential tho, Jaysin and I'm sure we agree he could be a big big part of the company in the future.

But until he sells out big shows like Randy has, I'm giving Orton the nod for promo work. He simply has drawn more money with his promo work than Ambrose.



:-)



Anyway, it's apples and oranges I guess. I like Orton. Like Ambrose alot too. Just think one's a more proven mic worker by far. That's all.

[crownsy]

http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/5064/breaking-update-brock-lesnar-flips-out-backstage

Annndd Lesnar cries like a little baby.

Screams work so hard it made me chuckle.

[LoganRodzen]

I don't think Cena getting up after the show and cutting a promo to the live crowd was a 'double-cross' but I do think Vinnie Mac had it pre-planned for Cena to do it if Lesnar tried making Cena look bad... which I think he tried doing multiple times. He was also extremely stiff and I'm not surprised he'll be away from WWE for awhile. He could have injured Cena during that match multiple times. I don't even like John Cena (I did in '03-early '04 but that's about it) and I'm siding with him over a guy (Lesnar) who I think can make WWE really interesting again.

Who watched that match? I didn't order the PPV but I had to find the match and watch it (which I just did). I was actually surprised at how stiff Lesnar was throughout the entire match. I shouldn't have been surprised considering what he came from (which I didn't see anything of, I'm just not into UFC).

[ampulator]

I don't think Cena getting up after the show and cutting a promo to the live crowd was a 'double-cross' but I do think Vinnie Mac had it pre-planned for Cena to do it if Lesnar tried making Cena look bad... which I think he tried doing multiple times. He was also extremely stiff and I'm not surprised he'll be away from WWE for awhile. He could have injured Cena during that match multiple times. I don't even like John Cena (I did in '03-early '04 but that's about it) and I'm siding with him over a guy (Lesnar) who I think can make WWE really interesting again.

Who watched that match? I didn't order the PPV but I had to find the match and watch it (which I just did). I was actually surprised at how stiff Lesnar was throughout the entire match. I shouldn't have been surprised considering what he came from (which I didn't see anything of, I'm just not into UFC).
I heard it's a work that only few know if it's REALLY a work within the WWE. Like, Lesnar went apeshit "for real" but wasn't really angry.

[Hyde Hill]

Can you be more clear? I didn't got that one. Who are you talking about?

Tough Enough winner Andy Levine the one that got fired. Some others still with the company in fcw mainly and the one that got eliminated first is one of Brodus's dancers and works in fcw

[djthefunkchris]

Yeah, but those dancers are "hot". :cool:

[TakerNGN74]

Tough Enough winner Andy Levine the one that got fired. Some others still with the company in fcw mainly and the one that got eliminated first is one of Brodus's dancers and works in fcw

You mean the chick that when asked by Austin what her favoriote match was she responded with "Melina vs. Alicia Fox" That just made me sick to think that people that know absolutely nothing about the product have jobs because sadly she was signed to a contract the day after she got eliminated from Tough Enough.

[codey]

Tough Enough winner Andy Levine the one that got fired. Some others still with the company in fcw mainly and the one that got eliminated first is one of Brodus's dancers and works in fcw

I thought he was talking about Daniel Puder, who was on Tough Enough with The Boogeyman, The Miz, and Ryback.

Didn't realize Andy Levine was fired.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah it happened with other tough enough's as well and the diva searches but this one is probably the most glaring.

[akujy]

Yeah it happened with other tough enough's as well and the diva searches but this one is probably the most glaring.

I have no idea why they chose the guys/girls they chose to win if they are not going to sign them. They should chose people they intend to sign as winners. I just don't get it.

[Hyde Hill]

I have no idea why they chose the guys/girls they chose to win if they are not going to sign them. They should chose people they intend to sign as winners. I just don't get it.

Ad into that that Andy was already signed before they started lolz. And Austin Aries didn't get in because he was too short reportedly but Matt cross is shorter.

[eayragt]

And marks fall for the bait.

Marks have more fun watching wrestling. Nothing to pity or mock there.

[Hive]

Marks have more fun watching wrestling. Nothing to pity or mock there.

Very much so. I wish I could press a button and become a mark again myself. So much more enjoyable, by far.

And now to something different: does anyone here actually think Booker T is a good color commentator? It baffles me how poor the guy is at it. Maybe it would help if he tried speaking words clearly for a change.

[Arrows]

Very much so. I wish I could press a button and become a mark again myself. So much more enjoyable, by far.

And now to something different: does anyone here actually think Booker T is a good color commentator? It baffles me how poor the guy is at it. Maybe it would help if he tried speaking words clearly for a change.

He's better than Stevie Ray.

That's about the only positive I have for him.

[The Final Countdown]

Very much so. I wish I could press a button and become a mark again myself. So much more enjoyable, by far.

And now to something different: does anyone here actually think Booker T is a good color commentator? It baffles me how poor the guy is at it. Maybe it would help if he tried speaking words clearly for a change.
He's terrible. And unlike the poster just above me, I actually liked his brother better (on commentary, not in general.) Stevie Ray was so bad at color commentary that I got a kick out of listening to him. Booker is jut awful at it. Though I do find myself mentally referring to Danielson as "D-Bry" quite often...

[akujy]

Very much so. I wish I could press a button and become a mark again myself. So much more enjoyable, by far.

And now to something different: does anyone here actually think Booker T is a good color commentator? It baffles me how poor the guy is at it. Maybe it would help if he tried speaking words clearly for a change.

So true. We would stop analyzing every single move and word, and so on. God those days were fun. Still love wrestling, but it was much more fun then.

What? The 5x, 5x, 5x 5x,...WCW world champ, and you think he sucks??? Are you kidding? Of course he sucks! God how he sucks at it! He doesn't even suck to the point of being a guilty pleasure, wich is sad. He just...sucks and although i like him, (as a wrestler) i definitely could live wihout his nonsensical commentary!

[Astil]

Booker has good Bookerisms, but as for calling a match he is poor. Then again so is King.

DAT SUPAHERO D-BRY IN MAH FAV FIVE!

[Fantabulous]

You have as much fun watching wrestling or any TV show as you allow yourself. Whatever you learn about a show, as a mark or an informed fan, might affect your enjoyment, but being a mark does not automatically mean you enjoy wrestling more than a smart fan.

Marks can analyze wrestling just as much as any smart fan, they just do so in a different way and from a different angle. Being a mark doesn't preclude someone from being analytical or even over analytical. The idea that marks have more fun or can enjoy things more is complete crap.

[akujy]

You have as much fun watching wrestling or any TV show as you allow yourself. Whatever you learn about a show, as a mark or an informed fan, might affect your enjoyment, but being a mark does not automatically mean you enjoy wrestling more than a smart fan.

Marks can analyze wrestling just as much as any smart fan, they just do so in a different way and from a different angle. Being a mark doesn't preclude someone from being analytical or even over analytical. The idea that marks have more fun or can enjoy things more is complete crap.

Very debatable. But each one with it's own opinion. And although you're not wrong, i think the other side is also true.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah it's not so much the mark thing more the kid, not analyzing as much maybe some fantasizing. And the 14, when everything is at its coolest, thing. As a "smark" you have the control yourself "how" you enjoy the show, analyzing can come later, although it is hard at times like for me at ER with the obvious, for me, tells.

[cappyboy]

Very much so. I wish I could press a button and become a mark again myself. So much more enjoyable, by far.

Oh I know. Same here. That's one of the things that really drive me nuts about the E and at times TNA as well. That's one of the things that will make me hate a worker the quickest. When they put a guy out there and he kills the illusion of the story world. I don't care whose fault it is. Whether it's Creative's of the guy himself at fault. If somebody's reminding me it's "just a show" in the middle of a show, that's not entertaining me.

This is why something like Mr. Anderson being most talented as a mimic annoys me so. While I'm remembering where he took this piece or that phrase or the other gesture from, it's distracting me from how he's trying to use them. The guy's essentially undermining the basis of the product by pulling me out of the story world and therefore failing at the entertainment he's meant to achieve. I would love to see a sports entertainment promotion that just let their people go out there and entertain without making them try so very hard at it.

And now to something different: does anyone here actually think Booker T is a good color commentator? It baffles me how poor the guy is at it. Maybe it would help if he tried speaking words clearly for a change.

No. And the sad thing is I would really like to. When Booker T does color, he reminds of Dusty Rhodes with the -isms. Like his "fave five" as compared to Dusty's "clubbering" and such. Dusty's colloquialisms really charmed me when he was commentating and I wish I could say the same of Booker. But he just doesn't enounciate well enough. He has good enough ideas and things to say when I can understand him. He just can't or won't articulate them properly. It's really annoying and sometimes it gets so bad you could lump this topic into what I was just saying above this about killing the illusion.

[Hive]

The idea that marks have more fun or can enjoy things more is complete crap.

Eh... no. It really isn't. Perhaps for you, but not for me. And not for many others as well, I bet. Why? Because you cannot control your brain; you cannot unlearn what you have learned.

Sure, being a child automatically makes it easier to love wrestling without thinking too much about it. But back in ~2004 when I began watching wrestling again for the first time since my childhood (I was 22 in 2004), I was perfectly able to enjoy it as a 'mark' - almost as much as in the "good old days". I didn't know anything about "dirt sheets", I didn't go online for information, I didn't know terms like 'push' or 'book' or 'job' or what not. And it made the experience so much better for me. I rooted for the faces and hated on the heels (though I did not know those terms), more or less in spite of actual wrestling ability or background. Without this blissfull unenlightenment, I surely wouldn't have the absurd love for Randy Orton and Batista that I have today. Hell, I even somewhat liked Maven. I didn't care so much whether the in-ring performers ever heard of the term 'chain-wrestling' before or not, all I cared about was the story told in matches and angles. I knew, of course, that it was all 'fake' - but I truly felt that the guys in the main event were actually there because they were the best, because they deserved to be there.

But after reading as much about what happens behind the scenes, I cannot enjoy wrestling like that anymore. I cannot help but analyze moves, promos, booking decisions, allignments, pushes, etc. when watching. Why? Because I cannnot get these inner workings out of my head again. Just like you won't enjoy a magic trick the same way once you learn how it's performed.

[JackKnifed72]

...I knew, of course, that it was all 'fake' - but I truly felt that the guys in the main event were actually there because they were the best, because they deserved to be there....

Wait wha---

You mean Hulk Hogan didn't really slam 1500pd Andre the Giant in front of 9.3 million fans at WrestleMania 3?!?

...right...next you'll be saying there's no Santa...

[bigtplaystew]

You have as much fun watching wrestling or any TV show as you allow yourself. Whatever you learn about a show, as a mark or an informed fan, might affect your enjoyment, but being a mark does not automatically mean you enjoy wrestling more than a smart fan.

Marks can analyze wrestling just as much as any smart fan, they just do so in a different way and from a different angle. Being a mark doesn't preclude someone from being analytical or even over analytical. The idea that marks have more fun or can enjoy things more is complete crap.

In my humble opinion, the line between mark and "smart fan" as you put it is SO thin that very few people stand on one side or the other. For instance I don't see a single person who posts on this board as one or the other. I've seen people mark out over dumb crap, and I've seen people smark it up over dumb crap.



But ultimately, you hit it right on the head. It's only as fun as you let it be. Now if certain things just don't appeal to you about wrestling, that's one thing. But allowing yourself to be entertained is a big part of wrestling as a form of entertainment in particular, especially in the adult wrestling fan.


You know you, in general, aren't getting the highest quality acting and writing on TV. How much of that can you overlook and just enjoy it as a TV show? Also, once you've followed long enough and begin to understand the business a little bit, at what point does too much knowledge make the show unfun?

[djthefunkchris]

I don't know... Not trying to take sides but I think I actually enjoy it more, especially over time. I mean, it's nothing like it was for me in the 80's, but nothing is. However, the knowledge of "How" and "Why" and such makes it more enjoyable for me. It doesn't bother me when I can clearly see that the punch or kick missed, yet he knocked him down anyways, like it used to back in the day.

I actually cringe at things that I used to enjoy... Like how bad a cut really is when they bleed, etc. Things that I couldn't wait for before. As I get older, I look at it how it's meant to look, like a TV sitcom, and I enjoy it as just that. Each character playing their role, each one doing what they are supposed to do.

That's why I have a hard time getting behind this or that person being better in the ring. In my opinion, any one of those guys could look like a wrestling machine, if they booked them to work like one... unless they are just physically unable to do the moves. That's why I enjoy the high flying so much more now, then I did back then, because not just anyone can do those things. I understand that probably most of the smaller indie type shows will show you what people know, because they don't have the option of doing the match ahead of time, or planning it out perfectly. However, in TNA or WWE, I totally expect that whomever THEY want to be known as a heavy brawler, is going to be a heavy brawler, and whomever they want to look like a wrestling machince (someone going from move to move), will look like a wrestling machine, because that's their character. In other words, I believe it's totally possible for Randy Orton to do 20 or 30 wrestling holds in a match, and look fantasticly gifted as a technical wrestler, if that's how they wanted him to look.... Heck, he might be a whole lot better at it then the brawler type style they have him as now, but we would never know, because it doesn't fit the character he is portraying.

[Fantabulous]

People know each and every single thing in movies is fake, there isn't a person outside of a vegetable who thinks they're real, and yet I don't hear many people bitching that they wished they could believe movies were real again because they had more fun watching them like that. I don't see movie threads littered with people bitching and moaning that they can't enjoy the great movie they just saw because they know it's all fake and they see things all the time that kill the illusion.

You get as much enjoyment as you allow yourself. People do it all the time with other forms of entertainment they know going in are entirely predetermined and have that fact rammed into their heads with numerous TV shows and documentaries. You can do it with wrestling. Just switch your brain off. It should be very easy.

[Hive]

People know each and every single thing in movies is fake, there isn't a person outside of a vegetable who thinks they're real, and yet I don't hear many people bitching that they wished they could believe movies were real again because they had more fun watching them like that. I don't see movie threads littered with people bitching and moaning that they can't enjoy the great movie they just saw because they know it's all fake and they see things all the time that kill the illusion.

You get as much enjoyment as you allow yourself. People do it all the time with other forms of entertainment they know going in are entirely predetermined and have that fact rammed into their heads with numerous TV shows and documentaries. You can do it with wrestling. Just switch your brain off. It should be very easy.

If you think it's strictly a matter of knowing whether it's fake or not, you simply don't get it. I've always known that wrestling was not a real sport, knowing whether it's fake or not is really not what seperates 'marks' from 'smarks'.

[Self]

Especially at live events, I enjoy wrestling much more when I'm actively supporting one guy over the other, as I would when watching football or mma. Not to say I don't have fun being analytical and appreciating the technique and dramatic flow of a match, but that act of cheering on 'your favourite' and wanting him to 'win' makes me feel like a kid again, and that in and of itself is fun. It's a shame I need a few drinks in me to get to that zone.

My brain doesn't switch off very easily, especially when I see a botch or even a slight miscommunication in the ring that pulls me out of the mindset. I couldn't watch the recent live episode of 30 Rock, because I knew one little flub would pull me out of the zone, and I'd be rooting for the actors to remember their lines, instead of the characters in the story they're actually telling. Now I like wrestling more, and have more of an interest in the artform, but... I like getting into the 'mark' headspace.

[djthefunkchris]

What it reminds me of, more then using a sports show as an example, is the long debates about comic-books, and who they should give better stories too, and who they should make the leader of this or that team, and who is smarter, faster, stronger, etc. That's what wrestling reminds me of.

[Jaysin]

http://www.wwe.com/superstars/sting

:eek::eek::eek:

[Hive]

http://www.wwe.com/superstars/sting

:eek::eek::eek:

What the... :eek:

What is this???

If they actually sign Sting, I will instantly turn into a SUPERMARK. :p

[Jaysin]

What the... :eek:

What is this???

If they actually sign Sting, I will instantly turn into a SUPERMARK. :p

He got added to the alumni page. Sting's my all time favorite, so randomly seeing that was awesome.

[Hive]

He got added to the alumni page. Sting's my all time favorite, so randomly seeing that was awesome.

So you got my hopes up for nothing? :(

[Jaysin]

So you got my hopes up for nothing? :(

Fairly sure that it's a new addition to the alumni page. So they could be planning something. I remember reading forever ago that they wanted to do a Best of Sting dvd, but Sting just signed a new contract with TNA semi recently, so I dunno what it could be.

[Hive]

Fairly sure that it's a new addition to the alumni page. So they could be planning something. I remember reading forever ago that they wanted to do a Best of Sting dvd, but Sting just signed a new contract with TNA semi recently, so I dunno what it could be.

Maybe Dixie didn't learn from letting Nash go. One can always hope. :D

I'd love to see Sting on the biggest wrestling stage of them all, finally. And more importantly, he deserves it.

[Zeel1]

The issue with that is that Sting is not WWE Alumni... :p

[Jaysin]

The issue with that is that Sting is not WWE Alumni... :p

I believe he's the only one on the alumni page who hasn't been in WWE at some point.

[JackKnifed72]

The issue with that is that Sting is not WWE Alumni... :p

Technically you are correct

...however the 'E owns complete rights to the entire WCW library...and Jm Crockett Promotions...and Bill Watts' Mid-South/UWF...so outside of his time in TNA, McMahon owns exclusive rebroadcast rights to most of Sting's career...

perhaps...

One can only hope Sting might make it to WrestleMania XXVIIII

Probably not however :(

[haloed]

Perhaps it has something to do with the deal Dixie Carter and TNA negotiated for with WWE so Flair could appear for his HOF induction. I believe she said they received or are going to receive something for Flair's appearance. Maybe this is part of it, or they are simply going to finally give us a Sting dvd.

[Hive]

Perhaps it has something to do with the deal Dixie Carter and TNA negotiated for with WWE so Flair could appear for his HOF induction. I believe she said they received or are going to receive something for Flair's appearance. Maybe this is part of it, or they are simply going to finally give us a Sting dvd.

Oh yeah that's right, she said something big was coming soon...

[Hyde Hill]

Big is over stating it but it would raise eyebrows she said. ( I immediately went into dream mode of course, eyebrow raised means Rock in TNA! lol.) Like the fact that Sting is getting the acknowledgement and it can only really benefit both companies.

[Hyde Hill]

BTW job opening at WWE that some of our board writers and others may want to check out:

http://wwe-careers.com/wwe/jobboard/JobDetails.aspx?__ID=*E4214F878373E462

[LoNdOn]

BTW job opening at WWE that some of our board writers and others may want to check out:

http://wwe-careers.com/wwe/jobboard/JobDetails.aspx?__ID=*E4214F878373E462

I would love that job!

Probably would get the elbow shortly thereafter for trying to "change" too much.

First suggestion: "You know that stuff you used to call tag team wrestling? Why don't we bring that back and make it important again? You know the young high-flyers? Shouldn't we have a division that capitalises on their strengths and present it in a way that doesn't make it come across as an afterthought? What door? Yeah, I see it. Why would it hit me in the ass on the way ou- SLAM!!!!!!!!"

[Astil]

BTW job opening at WWE that some of our board writers and others may want to check out:

http://wwe-careers.com/wwe/jobboard/JobDetails.aspx?__ID=*E4214F878373E462

F it I applyed

[Hyde Hill]

F it I applyed

Good luck, hope more do seems like a good entry level job.

[Astil]

Good luck, hope more do seems like a good entry level job.

Well you do have to live close to Stamford. I'm within 'reasonable driving distance' so I'm good, but I imagine most on the boards are not, sadly.

[Hyde Hill]

Meh one can move can't one? Lol. Netherlands here and thinking of applying.

[djthefunkchris]

I would love that job!

Probably would get the elbow shortly thereafter for trying to "change" too much.

First suggestion: "You know that stuff you used to call tag team wrestling? Why don't we bring that back and make it important again? You know the young high-flyers? Shouldn't we have a division that capitalises on their strengths and present it in a way that doesn't make it come across as an afterthought? What door? Yeah, I see it. Why would it hit me in the ass on the way ou- SLAM!!!!!!!!"
I really doubt they would slam the door in anyone's face that has legitimate ideas on how to enhance the product. From what I understand, if it makes money, they will allow it. Something you have to make sure it does, and to be honest, I see all the negatives brought up in prior posts about tag teams, that would make your first act pretty hard to show them anything worth keeping you around.

Now, if you get them noticed as a singles wrestler that just happens to be in a tag team with another singles wrestler.... You might be on to something.

I totally hate writing, and I wouldn't be able to pull any of that off. Someone that can dig into the characters, and get them noticed with words, just might be able to though.

Well you do have to live close to Stamford. I'm within 'reasonable driving distance' so I'm good, but I imagine most on the boards are not, sadly.

Meh one can move can't one? Lol. Netherlands here and thinking of applying.

Good luck.

[BHK1978]

When I was a senior in college (Back in 2000, man do I feel old.), I applied for a P.A. job for there and NBC. I never heard anything back from either of them but that was what I was expecting anyways. As the old saying goes, “Nothing ventured, nothing gained.”

[djthefunkchris]

Just so people know though, in case they get misled by discussion... This isn't a "creative" job, but I guess you could think of it as a step in the right direction. Reading it, looks like you basically make happen what creative wants.

[BHK1978]

Just so people know though, in case they get misled by discussion... This isn't a "creative" job, but I guess you could think of it as a step in the right direction. Reading it, looks like you basically make happen what creative wants.

The key part of it is: Production/ Television experience preferred. You might as well switch preferred with required.

[djthefunkchris]

The key part of it is: Production/ Television experience preferred. You might as well switch preferred with required.

Putting together promo packages, writing promos for characters, etc. All part of the process after creative says what they want to happen.

I see it like this: You have the people, probably people that been in the business for years, that don't write, don't do anything but sit around and talk about what they want to happen with this character and that character, and what other characters should be involved. You then, take what they tell you and put it on paper, package it up, etc.

The one plus I see is the fact that you get to write. The only problem I see with that is I doubt anyone can write great for everyone, and your going to have to save your best for the people they want to end up looking best/standing out. I can see you sneaking some great things in for the right people though, if you can actually achieve it.

[BHK1978]

That sounds a little weird that it would say Production/Television experience preferred because to me it SHOULD say Required. I couldn't apply even if I wanted to though because while I have the Production/Television experience that they would need I don't have a bachelors degree only an AAS so I am out.:(

You have real world experience though, so that might work to your advantage.

[TakerNGN74]

You have real world experience though, so that might work to your advantage.

Yeah it might but the travel would be a pain.

[BHK1978]

Yeah it might but the travel would be a pain.

What you can't drive from Minnesota to Connecticut everyday?:D

Okay no more off topic talk from me.

[TakerNGN74]

What you can't drive from Minnesota to Connecticut everyday?:D

Okay no more off topic talk from me.

lol that would be insane, and damn dude you replied to my post quick because I deleted it after I posted it because it was meant more as a joke than anything else and yeah so now you quoted something from one of my posts that doesn't exist anymore so it looks weird.

[LoNdOn]

I really doubt they would slam the door in anyone's face that has legitimate ideas on how to enhance the product. From what I understand, if it makes money, they will allow it. Something you have to make sure it does, and to be honest, I see all the negatives brought up in prior posts about tag teams, that would make your first act pretty hard to show them anything worth keeping you around.

Now, if you get them noticed as a singles wrestler that just happens to be in a tag team with another singles wrestler.... You might be on to something.

I totally hate writing, and I wouldn't be able to pull any of that off. Someone that can dig into the characters, and get them noticed with words, just might be able to though.


If WWE can't see the value in good tag team wrestling; something which has seen some of the company's best matches, I think something is seriously wrong. Besides, you wouldn't go into a job like that and expect to start putting ideas into practice. You would have to be ingratiated into the company for a fair while before they would consider listening to any suggestions I would guess.

On the requirements, I do have a BA in Media Studies and scored high in both script writing and creative modules. Commuting would be a bit of a hassle though. :p

[TakerNGN74]

If WWE can't see the value in good tag team wrestling; something which has seen some of the company's best matches, I think something is seriously wrong. Besides, you wouldn't go into a job like that and expect to start putting ideas into practice. You would have to be ingratiated into the company for a fair while before they would consider listening to any suggestions I would guess.

On the requirements, I do have a BA in Media Studies and scored high in both script writing and creative modules. Commuting would be a bit of a hassle though. :p

Wouldn't it be worth it though if you could do it?

[bigtplaystew]

I've had two close friends and a cousin apply for, and in one case interview for a WWE entry level job somewhat similar to this. My guess would be that the job is for an extremely low amount of money. My cousin claimed that they were looking to pay $19,000 a year for an entry level position operating cameras for them.

[Astil]

I'll just tell them "for a star of my size you should really be paying my travel expenses" "I expect a low level title run" "Th downside amount is too low compared to what you are paying others of my level" :p

[juggaloninjalee]

I've had two close friends and a cousin apply for, and in one case interview for a WWE entry level job somewhat similar to this. My guess would be that the job is for an extremely low amount of money. My cousin claimed that they were looking to pay $19,000 a year for an entry level position operating cameras for them.

That $19,000 doesn't count the free dinner and lunches they get, hotel, or traveling costs though does it? Because it would make sense outside of all of that.

[smurphy1014]

I'll just tell them "for a star of my size you should really be paying my travel expenses" "I expect a low level title run" "Th downside amount is too low compared to what you are paying others of my level" :p

HA!! :D

[djthefunkchris]

If WWE can't see the value in good tag team wrestling; something which has seen some of the company's best matches, I think something is seriously wrong. Besides, you wouldn't go into a job like that and expect to start putting ideas into practice. You would have to be ingratiated into the company for a fair while before they would consider listening to any suggestions I would guess.

On the requirements, I do have a BA in Media Studies and scored high in both script writing and creative modules. Commuting would be a bit of a hassle though. :p
On tag teams, what I mean is I can understand that "TWO" single stars make more money then a "2-man" tag team would. I guess what you would have to do is prove that it's worth the investment over time and if done properly it "could" have as much monetary value as two individual performers... My thoughts are "Easier said then done" however.

I would love to see someone from here apply for a job there, and actually get it. Would love to get in on some actual discussions if possible, help with the job at hand (writing and whatever), etc... IF you got the job, I would definitely be rooting very hard for anything you did!
Wouldn't it be worth it though if you could do it?
Depends on what type of transmuting he is doing... "House Of The Rising Sun" makes me think he would need to do some real soul searching first, weighing all pro's and con's.

Another thing is, it seems as though they are talking about the person actually going out on the road as well. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't have to set half the stuff up as well.

[ampulator]

Personally speaking, tag teams are great, but they are the anomaly, not the norm, for much of wrestling history. Generally speaking, wrestling is one-on-one affairs, even moreso in the early days than it is now.

[bigtplaystew]

Is it just me or is Cole starting to settle down a bit? He's still a heel announcer but he's just a little more toned down.

[ampulator]

I think they need to decide on what they want. Do they want a face announcer or a heel color? I rather have him as a color, because he's a terrible announcer.

[Jaysin]

I think they need to decide on what they want. Do they want a face announcer or a heel color? I rather have him as a color, because he's a terrible announcer.

He's god awful at color commentating. I'd rather his role begin to diminish and they let Josh Matthews or Scott Stanford become the lead announcer. Someone who doesn't want to make me change the channel.

Then again, I've always disliked Cole, so I'm biased.

[milamber]

Kofi/Truth v Hunico/Camacho - Fun match. Lots of potential in the tag division right now.

Damien Sandow rocks. Hallelujah!

Bateman v Ryback - Good to see Bateman on SD. Feeding him to Ryback was was genius.

Orton/Show v Rhodes/Kane - Another good tag match.

Layla v Natalya - Divas in a match with actual wrestling? Doesn't happen very often. Prefer Natalya as a face.

I love AJ & Kaitlyn segments.

Sheamus v Bryan - Great main event match.

[djthefunkchris]

Going to be honest, I enjoyed the diva's match, thought it was second best behind the tag team match.

Bryan and Sheamus did what it was supposed to do, which was give people a reason to cheer for Sheamus.

[bigtplaystew]

Sounded like a hot crowd on Smackdown. It was fun. Funkasaurus got a killer pop.

[milamber]

Wrestlemania 29 fantasy booking - Ryback beats the crap out of Lesnar, forcing him to retire while Cena sits at the announce table smirking!

For those who missed SD, here's AJ slapping Kaitlyn again (even harder): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YcCjOXGfyM

[|Anderz|]

we need to find what Doug Dillinger is up to these days.. could do with him escorting Skip Goldberg to the ring before his matches..

[Rone Rivendale]

Road Warriors/LoD
Doom
The Steiner Brothers
The Dudley Boys
Harlem Heat
Demolition
The New Age Outlaws

What do these have in common? They were ALL better as a team than their individual parts. Most of these teams ended up with 1 legit singles wrestler and 1 really bad one, but together they were seen as legendary teams. Any of these teams could have faced 2 Main Event stars in a tag match and no one would bat an eyelash when the established team won.

When a tag team is done right, you elevate both stars beyond what they can do by themselves.

[Stennick]

Doom was barely a team for more than two years so you really can't include them with teams that were successful and a team for decades.

[haloed]

Road Warriors/LoD
Doom
The Steiner Brothers
The Dudley Boys
Harlem Heat
Demolition
The New Age Outlaws

What do these have in common? They were ALL better as a team than their individual parts. Most of these teams ended up with 1 legit singles wrestler and 1 really bad one, but together they were seen as legendary teams. Any of these teams could have faced 2 Main Event stars in a tag match and no one would bat an eyelash when the established team won.

When a tag team is done right, you elevate both stars beyond what they can do by themselves.


I'd have to say while the Dudleys were great, Bubba Ray (Bully Ray) has been great since the team split in TNA.

[codey]

The problem with tag teams (and remember, I'm a tag team fan) is that they do elevate two stars. Think of it in TCW terms: You've got a legendary tag team with 90 overness across the map, and you have to pay both of them what their overness deems them worthy of. At the same time, you're only selling merchandise for the team. You're not selling Road Warrior Animal and Hawk shirts separately. No one wants that, they want a Road Warriors shirt. So what happens is you end up paying two guys for the profitability of one.

[shawn michaels 82]

I don't get all the Michael Cole hate. I like him, i think he performs well when he doesn't try to go over-the-top. Not the best announcer ever, but pretty decent. Also, i like King as a colour, someone was saying he was awful a few days ago, don't think so, i just think he lacks chemistry with cole. Like the one he had with JR. Boy, those two were an amazing pair.

[Stennick]

Michael Cole doesn't go over the top? He might be the most over the top guy since Mark Madden (Face fulla stuff, face fulla stuff).

Jerry Lawler isn't NEAR as witty as he was 12 years ago. You go watch a Raw from 1998 and then watch one from today and tell me if he's anything like what he used to be. JR and King haven't had chemistry for quite a while. The guy is bland, he's never funny and he's pretty much just a generic announcer now days.

Scott Steiner was always pegged to be a singles star he just refused to leave his brother behind (a good quality I suppose) he main evented a Clash of the Champions against Ric Flair for the WHC in the early nineties. He was a heck of a worker, he was over and he was the talker of the group anyway. The guy should have been World Champion a decade before he was. Bubba Ray has always been a bright light in singles. Remember his RAW of 02 run? He had a mini feud with HHH that was really good actually.

[djthefunkchris]

Road Warriors/LoD
Doom
The Steiner Brothers
The Dudley Boys
Harlem Heat
Demolition
The New Age Outlaws

What do these have in common? They were ALL better as a team than their individual parts. Most of these teams ended up with 1 legit singles wrestler and 1 really bad one, but together they were seen as legendary teams. Any of these teams could have faced 2 Main Event stars in a tag match and no one would bat an eyelash when the established team won.

When a tag team is done right, you elevate both stars beyond what they can do by themselves.

Even if you are spot on, your talking about quality, not necessarily money. A tag team that can believably go over two top stars doesn't equal the money you make off the two top singles stars (example). I get that it can help elevate people that would otherwise not be able to be elevated.... I mean, that was the whole reason for them in the first place.

[justtxyank]

The problem with tag teams (and remember, I'm a tag team fan) is that they do elevate two stars. Think of it in TCW terms: You've got a legendary tag team with 90 overness across the map, and you have to pay both of them what their overness deems them worthy of. At the same time, you're only selling merchandise for the team. You're not selling Road Warrior Animal and Hawk shirts separately. No one wants that, they want a Road Warriors shirt. So what happens is you end up paying two guys for the profitability of one.

But you don't pay them the same. The New Age Outlaws moved merchandise at an incredible rate during the attitude era but were never paid individually like Austin or Rock.

[Hive]

Even if you are spot on, your talking about quality, not necessarily money. A tag team that can believably go over two top stars doesn't equal the money you make off the two top singles stars (example).

I agree, though I think the point is that tag teams should be made with people that are either not marketable as top singles stars or just isn't there yet - so it's not like they'll be sacrificing two main eventers worth of merchandise in exchange for one tag team's worth of merchandise; they'll be trading in two midcarders for a main event tag team, in most cases. Which, in my book, would definately be worth it.

Many tag teams consists of individuals who would simply not be worth much if not for the tag team (such as The Road Warriors) - while others have one worker with huge potential who just isn't ready for the singles push yet (Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, etc). Why not strap them with matching gimmicks and attires and see where that takes them?

[tommyb]

But you don't pay them the same. The New Age Outlaws moved merchandise at an incredible rate during the attitude era but were never paid individually like Austin or Rock.

Which may be why WWE likes to break up teams, before they start asking for more money.

[Wrestling Century]

Which may be why WWE likes to break up teams, before they start asking for more money.

That theory doesn't really make sense. I think that they just don't know how to write tag team fueds/book tag teams. I don't remember seeing one Hart Dynasty, Air Boom, Morrison & Miz or Cryme Tyme t-shirt. As a matter of fact, I don't remember any piece of merchandise for those teams.

[ampulator]

There are several legitimate reasons why WWE wouldn't tag teams. First, tag team success doesn't always translate into singles success. Second, tag teams take away time needed for singles. WWE has enough problems promoting singles as it is. Imagine them promoting tag teams. It would be a huge mess.

That being said, I always thought tag teams actually worked better under companies like the WWE, provided they were willing to put in the time to do them. I just don't think they are willing to give the resources, though.

[Jaysin]

That theory doesn't really make sense. I think that they just don't know how to write tag team fueds/book tag teams. I don't remember seeing one Hart Dynasty, Air Boom, Morrison & Miz or Cryme Tyme t-shirt. As a matter of fact, I don't remember any piece of merchandise for those teams.

They made multiple Hart Dynasty shirts and at least one Air Boom shirt.

[Bull]

You would think with as many workers as they have they would be more inclined to use tag teams to get people exposure, and let them work. They could at least put people together for a while to see who the better worker is, and see what the fans think of each person, once they have established those things, just break them up like the normally do and push the better worker in singles.

[ampulator]

Like I said before, they don't want to divert time from singles to tag. Yes, you are correct that those tags can help singles in the long run. But WWE isn't exactly looking to be creative about it. They have a tendency, until recently, to keep trying the same thing over and over and expecting a better result. Plus, WWE has never put much stock into tag teams, even when it helps to do so.

[Basmat01]

I think I have posted this link before. Paul London and Brian Kendrick were told they dont care about tag teams lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNXg3KRUOcY&feature=relmfu

[bigtplaystew]

I think the thing with tag teams it its easier to push them from the bottom of the card to the middle. GENERALLY SPEAKING OF COURSE, all they really have to do to get over is win as tag team matches tend to be more exciting (especially to the live crowd). A hot tag team at least gets a mild reaction from the crowd.

The issue is that its damn near impossible for a tag team to be a main event draw in North America. So they inherently have to split them up at some point, which sees one guy go over the other, which sees one guy hit stardom and the other got... well... you know how that goes.

[Remianen]

I don't get all the Michael Cole hate. I like him, i think he performs well when he doesn't try to go over-the-top. Not the best announcer ever, but pretty decent. Also, i like King as a colour, someone was saying he was awful a few days ago, don't think so, i just think he lacks chemistry with cole. Like the one he had with JR. Boy, those two were an amazing pair.

I despise Michael Cole but I've learned how to tune him out completely. King is just a caricature (of himself from the late 90s). The fact that he's been married more than a polygamist is such a sad running joke, I'm almost embarrassed whenever I hear reference to it (which always happens during diva segments).

But you don't pay them the same. The New Age Outlaws moved merchandise at an incredible rate during the attitude era but were never paid individually like Austin or Rock.

NAO never got as over as people were referring to. codey's point is absolutely true but it happens so rarely nowadays as to me a non-issue. Back in the old days, when a tag team could be the biggest stars on the roster, that might've been a concern. But nowadays, tag teams stop at the midcard so there's no chance of them getting over enough to make their prices prohibitive.

That theory doesn't really make sense. I think that they just don't know how to write tag team fueds/book tag teams. I don't remember seeing one Hart Dynasty, Air Boom, Morrison & Miz or Cryme Tyme t-shirt. As a matter of fact, I don't remember any piece of merchandise for those teams.

Then you weren't looking. Air Boom wore their merch to the ring, many times. Cryme Tyme, are you serious? They had a couple of different t-shirts. The one I've seen is black and has the name in the center with 'Yo Yo' and 'Yo Yo' running diagonally across the top corner (top of the pec, when worn). I don't even LIKE WWE (though I have a neighbor who does) and I know this stuff. Look at what the teams wear to the ring. Many times, that's the exact same merch available for said team (main reason they're wearing it).

Here, lemme show you what Google just showed me:

Air Boom: http://www.wweshop.com/item/air-boom-non-stop-flight-t-shirt/Men/01-15499

Cryme Tyme action figures: http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_itemId=320262466258&_nkw=CRYME%20TYME%20WWE%20Wrestling%20T%20shirt%20 SMALL

Cryme Tyme t-shirt: http://wrestlingsuperstore.com/wweofficialeddieguerrerovivalarazadvdcovertshirt-1-1-3.aspx

Hart Dynasty t-shirt (no longer available but as you can see, it existed): http://www.wweshop.com/product_detail.asp?productid=01-12037&cat=HartDynasty (Here is that shirt: http://www.dhgate.com/wwf-sd-hart-dynasty-thicker-than-water-t/p-ff80808129d93e870129e480a5f65bf0.html )

Another Hart Dynasty t-shirt: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Better-Than-Best-HART-DYNASTY-WWE-T-shirt-Bret-/230510726331#ht_1381wt_905

WrestlingCentury, let me clue you in on something. In WWE, if you see them on TV regularly, they probably have merchandise. If they don't but the fans take a liking to them, they'll have it eventually (Dean Ambrose, for example).

Yeah, WWE doesn't really support or promote tag team wrestling. But damn if they don't promote merchandise for the teams they don't support or promote. :p

The issue is that its damn near impossible for a tag team to be a main event draw in North America. So they inherently have to split them up at some point, which sees one guy go over the other, which sees one guy hit stardom and the other got... well... you know how that goes.

Chicken & egg. As far as I can recall, outside of the Road Warriors, no tag team has been promoted as or pushed to be a main event draw (at least no tag team that wasn't already main eventing individually, i.e. DX). The closest we've gotten to it was the whole Hardyz/Dudleyz/Edge & Christian period but though they stole the show, they weren't the feature attraction (i.e. main event). Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't remember any of those matches being the last match on the (televised) PPV? There was a time when people said it would be 'damn near impossible' for a non-big man to be a main event draw in WWF but that was dispelled when WWF decided to change that "fact".

[juggaloninjalee]

There are several legitimate reasons why WWE wouldn't tag teams. First, tag team success doesn't always translate into singles success. Second, tag teams take away time needed for singles. WWE has enough problems promoting singles as it is. Imagine them promoting tag teams. It would be a huge mess.

That being said, I always thought tag teams actually worked better under companies like the WWE, provided they were willing to put in the time to do them. I just don't think they are willing to give the resources, though.

Like I said before, they don't want to divert time from singles to tag. Yes, you are correct that those tags can help singles in the long run. But WWE isn't exactly looking to be creative about it. They have a tendency, until recently, to keep trying the same thing over and over and expecting a better result. Plus, WWE has never put much stock into tag teams, even when it helps to do so.

I disagree with your time aspect. WWE just doesn't see a need for them other than filler for guys to have something to do without being in a major program with someone.

Look back at 80 and 90s WWF. They had less tv time and had many more established tag teams. It was great! They kept them apart except for occasionally teaming 2 singles guys so someone new could run with the World Title. Like when HBK and Austin were tag team champions. I believe it was so Bret could face new people for a few months. They did this a few times in history though.

Personally there is plenty of air time they could use to push tag teams and it wouldn't interfere with the singles pushes. WWE has more top tier singles guys now but that is because that is all they WANT to push these last few years.

[LoNdOn]

Are we not going to address the fact that Paul Heyman was on RAW?

I almost fell off my chair.

[JackKnifed72]

Are we not going to address the fact that Paul Heyman was on RAW?

I almost fell off my chair.


Finally, I thought I was the only one who marked out

[Makhai]

Finally, I thought I was the only one who marked out

As a follower of MMA, this didn't surprise me at all. Heyman was Lesnar's media liaison in MMA. Did multiple MMA Hours, etc. They're making some pretty interesting MMA crossover references with Lesnar's story-arc. Even with Heyman's standing in the WWE backroom this made the most sense if they want to cool Lesnar's storyline until after Over the Limit. Which seems to be the way they are going.

[Zeel1]

Yeah, I was wondering why no one was talking about that... :p

[alden]

jerry lawler straight edge ?

http://rajah.com/base/node/27306

[ampulator]

I disagree with your time aspect. WWE just doesn't see a need for them other than filler for guys to have something to do without being in a major program with someone.

Look back at 80 and 90s WWF. They had less tv time and had many more established tag teams. It was great! They kept them apart except for occasionally teaming 2 singles guys so someone new could run with the World Title. Like when HBK and Austin were tag team champions. I believe it was so Bret could face new people for a few months. They did this a few times in history though.

Personally there is plenty of air time they could use to push tag teams and it wouldn't interfere with the singles pushes. WWE has more top tier singles guys now but that is because that is all they WANT to push these last few years.
You are misunderstanding me. I am riight about the time aspect. You are just don't know what time period I'm talking about. Original Wrestling, the LEGIT wrestling, there were no tag teams. It was one-on-one competition. Tag teams are the exception, not the norm, of wrestling. Do I want them? Hell yes, you bet I do. Do I think WWE should have them and promote them? Hell, yes, you bet I do.

But in the originalist view, tag teams didn't come first- it was mostly one-on-one back in the Old School Days, way before the 80's and 70's. Like everything else, Tag Teams are diversion from what wrestling really is. A wonderful diversion, but a diversion nonetheless.

[juggaloninjalee]

You are misunderstanding me. I am riight about the time aspect. You are just don't know what time period I'm talking about. Original Wrestling, the LEGIT wrestling, there were no tag teams. It was one-on-one competition. Tag teams are the exception, not the norm, of wrestling. Do I want them? Hell yes, you bet I do. Do I think WWE should have them and promote them? Hell, yes, you bet I do.

But in the originalist view, tag teams didn't come first- it was mostly one-on-one back in the Old School Days, way before the 80's and 70's. Like everything else, Tag Teams are diversion from what wrestling really is. A wonderful diversion, but a diversion nonetheless.

I thought you were saying WWE doesn't have time on their programming right now for tag teams. That to me was really what my comment was about. They had great tag teams when they only had about 2 hours of tv a week. Now they have 2 hours for RAW, 2 hours for SD, and also their online stuff such as NXT.

[ampulator]

Oh, they don't, but they can darn sure give more time to them. That being said, it will take them a LOT of time to get into the groove of making quality tag teams, an endeavor that might take them years, maybe even a decade, to do to a level that even the WWE once had. I'm not sure they have the patience.

I always thought WWE had tag teams because "the other guys were doing it." Not because they actually liked them. You know, they couldn't let their competitors have something they didn't have.

[djthefunkchris]

I agree, though I think the point is that tag teams should be made with people that are either not marketable as top singles stars or just isn't there yet - so it's not like they'll be sacrificing two main eventers worth of merchandise in exchange for one tag team's worth of merchandise; they'll be trading in two midcarders for a main event tag team, in most cases. Which, in my book, would definately be worth it.

Many tag teams consists of individuals who would simply not be worth much if not for the tag team (such as The Road Warriors) - while others have one worker with huge potential who just isn't ready for the singles push yet (Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, etc). Why not strap them with matching gimmicks and attires and see where that takes them?
I don't think they shy away as much as people think... outside of the fact that teams are never forever for them.

I think the goal is to get all people that can sell a PPV, make people watch the show, etc... not that a tag team can't do that... but what I mean is that I believe they want their roster full of potential main event material. People that can move up and down the card at will, while the other's dip in and out (turnover). The one's that shine get to stay, the one's that don't will be gone unless they are providing a benefit that is needed.

Tag teams are just for fun, to them I think.

You would think with as many workers as they have they would be more inclined to use tag teams to get people exposure, and let them work. They could at least put people together for a while to see who the better worker is, and see what the fans think of each person, once they have established those things, just break them up like the normally do and push the better worker in singles.
That's what they do though, outside of throwing some mainstays together to help with that (have someone for them to go against).
I thought you were saying WWE doesn't have time on their programming right now for tag teams. That to me was really what my comment was about. They had great tag teams when they only had about 2 hours of tv a week. Now they have 2 hours for RAW, 2 hours for SD, and also their online stuff such as NXT.
I think the tag teams are highlighted more on Superstars and other "B" or Net shows.
Oh, they don't, but they can darn sure give more time to them. That being said, it will take them a LOT of time to get into the groove of making quality tag teams, an endeavor that might take them years, maybe even a decade, to do to a level that even the WWE once had. I'm not sure they have the patience.

I always thought WWE had tag teams because "the other guys were doing it." Not because they actually liked them. You know, they couldn't let their competitors have something they didn't have.
/nod. I don't see anything happening as fast as people want. Fact is, if they decided that's what they wanted last year, they might not get around to starting it till late this year, and then it takes time to create the interest a quality tag division would require... meaning it won't be next year or the year after.

You can't just throw people on Raw (for example) that MOST people aren't interested in, basically. You have to bring them in slowly, so you don't run fans away.... Unless of course, you use all your top talent to start it off.

[ampulator]

When was the last time they have a great tag team that was mostly tag team? The New Age Outlaws. It's been a long time since then... a decade or more? It just happened to two tag team undercarders worked better with each other much better than anyone thought they would. And they were allowed to grow as tag team, adding onto to that. That took them at least a couple of years. Their chemistry isn't exactly easy to find either. You probably have to accidentally happen onto it.

[Rone Rivendale]

I would argue that Miz and Morrison were that sort of team, and they were much more recent than NAO.

[Jaysin]

Does anyone know if they actually made physical copies of this poster?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4c/WCWstarrcade1997poster.JPG

[ampulator]

I would argue that Miz and Morrison were that sort of team, and they were much more recent than NAO.
But there's a problem with that - they were treated as single stars that worked well together, rather than as a tag team first. When the WWE saw the potential to break them up, they did so right away. The break up with NAO coincided around the time DX was breaking up.

Besides, Morrison always had weird gaps in his skillset. The guy reminds me of a less Spotty Jeff Hardy, with more charisma, better psychology, better selling, less flashiness. But his... matches always looked a bit "off". His "Foundation", so to speak, was very rough. Serviceable, but rough. I'm not smashing on the guy, but I always thought his matches could be great... or they could be weird and off. Not bad, just weird and off.

[moon_lit_tears]

Do you remember the year?

[Jaysin]

Do you remember the year?

If that's aimed at me, it's the poster for Starrcade 1997.

[milamber]

For all the talk of WWE's tag division, I did a count and things are looking pretty good:

Face teams: Kofi/Truth, The Usos, Santino/Ryder
Heel teams: Ziggler/Swagger, Titus/Young, Epico/Primo, Hunico/Camacho, Rex/Hawkins

And on Smackdown Santino/Ryder v Titus/Young was a good match. I think the creative team have been trawling the forums again to find out what we want. Now they just need more tag title matches and better storylines to make us care about the teams.

[Hive]

For all the talk of WWE's tag division, I did a count and things are looking pretty good:

Face teams: Kofi/Truth, The Usos, Santino/Ryder
Heel teams: Ziggler/Swagger, Titus/Young, Epico/Primo, Hunico/Camacho, Rex/Hawkins

And on Smackdown Santino/Ryder v Titus/Young was a good match. I think the creative team have been trawling the forums again to find out what we want. Now they just need more tag title matches and better storylines to make us care about the teams.

Throwing two random singles guys together does not a real tag team make.

[toeachtheirown]

So John Cena is getting divorced, his wife Liz hired the same attorney that Linda hired who incidently got Linda seventy percent of the accumulated wealth. Poor John is about to fall into the same trap that has Ric Flair wrestling as seventy, ex wives when you're a wrestling millionaire.

I'm kind of surprised he got married to his "high school sweatheart" this late in his career. Especially when it was widley reported that him and Mickey James were a couple for a while now so its not like he's been soley with her for the last twenty years or anything.

[Jaysin]

From what I read, Cena is the one that chose to divorce her. She said she felt blindsided by being served divorce papers.

I doubt Cena will lose much.

Plus, Flair lived his on screen life style and spent way too much money on frivolous things. Ex wives are only part of why he's broke.

[supershot]

Plus it said he had a prenup

[juggaloninjalee]

For all the talk of WWE's tag division, I did a count and things are looking pretty good:

Face teams: Kofi/Truth, The Usos, Santino/Ryder
Heel teams: Ziggler/Swagger, Titus/Young, Epico/Primo, Hunico/Camacho, Rex/Hawkins

And on Smackdown Santino/Ryder v Titus/Young was a good match. I think the creative team have been trawling the forums again to find out what we want. Now they just need more tag title matches and better storylines to make us care about the teams.

Red = COMEDY
Green = GREEN haven't proven anything yet.
Pink = JOBBERS so far

So after that you are left with Kofi and Truth which I do like right now. The Usos who are barely used. Epico and Primo who lost every single match before they were tag team champions and basically are jobbers who were given a title run it seems. Then Swagger and Dolph who I love both as a team and as singles wrestlers. I doubt they will be a tag team 6 months from now but if they are still teaming I'd love for them to win the titles and go on a nice heel run. Them and Truth/Kofi could have a really good feud for awhile on and off. That is just my opinion of the tag teams.

[Slim Jim]

Plus it said he had a prenup

One thing I read said that it was pretty watertight, too. But it's all just dirtsheet speculation so who knows...

[Jaysin]

Really random, but are their any wrestlers you didn't like/appreciate as a kid/younger viewer?

I never got into Big Boss Man/Big Bubba Rogers/Guardian Angel/Ray Traylor when I was a kid, but I've been watching a lot of classic WWF and WCW and holy crap he was great. Now, whenever I see a match involving him, I go out of my way to make sure I watch it.

Didn't think this would warrant it's own thread since he was a WWF/WCW guy.

[BHK1978]

Really random, but are their any wrestlers you didn't like/appreciate as a kid/younger viewer?

I never got into Big Boss Man/Big Bubba Rogers/Guardian Angel/Ray Traylor when I was a kid, but I've been watching a lot of classic WWF and WCW and holy crap he was great. Now, whenever I see a match involving him, I go out of my way to make sure I watch it.

Didn't think this would warrant it's own thread since he was a WWF/WCW guy.

Yeah there were a couple, I used to not like Adrian Adonis, Dino Bravo, The Fabulous Rougeaus, Ronnie Garvin, Koko B. Ware, Johnny V., and the Brooklyn Brawler. Looking at the list, it seems like as a kid I did not like Franco-Canadian wrestlers but I assure you I have nothing against my neighbors to the North. It is just for some reason I never liked the ones I listed.

[milamber]

Thought these were (in)appropriate:

http://www.troll.me/images/scumbag-cena/hustle-loyalty-divorce-prenup-adjustment.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii186/kraftee_hktk/PoopypantsCena.png

https://p.twimg.com/AskMWfYCMAAgmB4.jpg

[milamber]

In honour of the awesome Avengers movie:

http://m.ak.fbcdn.net/a4.sphotos.ak/hphotos-ak-snc7/577866_381859838532086_156280957756643_1117379_205 6951348_n.jpg

[supershot]

Thought these were (in)appropriate:


Hahahah! I almost choked on my coffee! :D

[shawn michaels 82]

Thought these were (in)appropriate:

http://www.troll.me/images/scumbag-cena/hustle-loyalty-divorce-prenup-adjustment.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii186/kraftee_hktk/PoopypantsCena.png

https://p.twimg.com/AskMWfYCMAAgmB4.jpg

Awesome! xD

[juggaloninjalee]

I wonder how long it will be until someone cuts a promo and disses Cena about his divorce.

[Jaysin]

Has anyone seen the viral video WWE's doing?

The "A New Revolution is Coming" with the big red x?

Ideas? Hopes?

[ThePeoplesChampion]

Has anyone seen the viral video WWE's doing?

The "A New Revolution is Coming" with the big red x?

Ideas? Hopes?

Dean Ambrose, the guy who has been taunting Mick Foley on twitter the past couple of months.

[justtxyank]

Really random, but are their any wrestlers you didn't like/appreciate as a kid/younger viewer?

I never got into Big Boss Man/Big Bubba Rogers/Guardian Angel/Ray Traylor when I was a kid, but I've been watching a lot of classic WWF and WCW and holy crap he was great. Now, whenever I see a match involving him, I go out of my way to make sure I watch it.

Didn't think this would warrant it's own thread since he was a WWF/WCW guy.

Ah how could you not like Ray Traylor!!!??

I never got why his popularity waned so badly at the end of his WCW run. Guy was a big body who could wrestle and looked like a legit tough guy.

Nasty Boys for me. I went from being mildly entertained by them as a kid to outright hating them on my television. Now I really appreciate how good they were.

[Makhai]

Has anyone seen the viral video WWE's doing?

The "A New Revolution is Coming" with the big red x?

Ideas? Hopes?

One dude with an X-name in FCW, Xavier Woods. So, that would be my first guess. Maybe they have a new Mayan calender Y2J gimmick for him?

[Jaysin]

Dean Ambrose, the guy who has been taunting Mick Foley on twitter the past couple of months.

I love Abrose. I'd be ok with that.


Ah how could you not like Ray Traylor!!!??

I never got why his popularity waned so badly at the end of his WCW run. Guy was a big body who could wrestle and looked like a legit tough guy.

Nasty Boys for me. I went from being mildly entertained by them as a kid to outright hating them on my television. Now I really appreciate how good they were.

I'm not sure, now I can see how much of a talented guy he is. I was a Nasty Boys fan too and then got super sick of them. I can watch them now though, well, their stuff from the 90s.

One dude with an X-name in FCW, Xavier Woods. So, that would be my first guess. Maybe they have a new Mayan calender Y2J gimmick for him?

I've always been a fan of his, so if he's coming in with some sort of hype, I'd be a fan from the get go.

[codey]

If it's not Ambrose, I'd really like to see it be a new face. There's a big influx of heel talent right now, with the only face being Brodus Clay. Maybe a new high flyer since Evan Bourne seems to be in the doghouse.

[Wrestling Century]

CM Punk has posted a few videos on his YouTube account hinting at Batista coming back. Perhaps that is who they are hyping up?

[Hive]

Has anyone seen the viral video WWE's doing?

The "A New Revolution is Coming" with the big red x?

Ideas? Hopes?

It's obviously a cross-promotion with TNA that features their X Division.

[Astil]

It's gotta be Ambrose. Gotta be.

[BurningHamster]

Ah how could you not like Ray Traylor!!!??


Yeah, Ray Traylor was so awesome.

Mine is kind of embarrassing, I never used to like Rick Rude as a kid since I found his somewhat sexual gimmick kind of embarrassing and fruity. I'd be sitting around wanting to watch some ... I dunno, Hogan or Jake the Snake or something and then this guy would be all oiled up and gyrating to stripper music and my mother would walk in and be like "WTF are you watching?"

[Makhai]

Yeah, Ray Traylor was so awesome.

Mine is kind of embarrassing, I never used to like Rick Rude as a kid since I found his somewhat sexual gimmick kind of embarrassing and fruity. I'd be sitting around wanting to watch some ... I dunno, Hogan or Jake the Snake or something and then this guy would be all oiled up and gyrating to stripper music and my mother would walk in and be like "WTF are you watching?"

Rick Rude was fun... Val Venis though... OMG, I think my mom had an aneurysm when she saw his titantron intro.

[moon_lit_tears]

The WWE has given me another reason to hate them.

[Nathers7]

It's probably Batista judging by Punk's hype.

Did anyone watch Raw? In terms of corny Cena promos that was one of the worst :p.

"....Puck off"

Oh my god, seriously? What made it even worse was Lawler's fake laugh and Cole saying before that "Gotta admit, this is pretty funny" or something along those lines.

Heyman was great as usual and they're actually doing a decent job of building the fatal four way aswell. Bryan - Punk build has been average but it is Bryan - Punk, it doesn't need a build.

[milamber]

There were some good moments on Raw this week:

HHH putting his hands on Heyman, Santino's comedy spots in the tag match with Punk, Big Show (who's one of the best actors in WWE) grovelling to Johnny only to be fired, the Punk/AJ segment, Cena acting like an idiot (even if his material was weak) and Johnny slapping the smile off his face.

[Makhai]

It's probably Batista judging by Punk's hype.

Did anyone watch Raw? In terms of corny Cena promos that was one of the worst :p.

"....Puck off"

Oh my god, seriously? What made it even worse was Lawler's fake laugh and Cole saying before that "Gotta admit, this is pretty funny" or something along those lines.

Heyman was great as usual and they're actually doing a decent job of building the fatal four way aswell. Bryan - Punk build has been average but it is Bryan - Punk, it doesn't need a build.

I think the WWE are setting it up to fail. Punk-Bryan will be great, but it won't sell without a hard push. This is setting up the, "look nerds, Punk isn't a draw" push down the card. The sell on this Cena match with a non-wrestler is pretty dumb. Like... who cares? It's going to suck. At best it'll be Team Teddy vs. Team Laurinitus from WM... which bombed. Shemus and Randy Orton... Yawn. Also the way they put that Raw together was like watching a carwreck... Big Show canned, everybody stunned. Cole somber.... HERE COMES A BRODUS CLAY SQUASH GUYS! GET FUNKY! This seems sloppy on every level, definitively a transitional PPV here.

[crownsy]

I think the WWE are setting it up to fail. Punk-Bryan will be great, but it won't sell without a hard push. This is setting up the, "look nerds, Punk isn't a draw" push down the card. The sell on this Cena match with a non-wrestler is pretty dumb. Like... who cares? It's going to suck. At best it'll be Team Teddy vs. Team Laurinitus from WM... which bombed. Shemus and Randy Orton... Yawn. Also the way they put that Raw together was like watching a carwreck... Big Show canned, everybody stunned. Cole somber.... HERE COMES A BRODUS CLAY SQUASH GUYS! GET FUNKY! This seems sloppy on every level, definitively a transitional PPV here.

Soooo you think that the WWE is going to intentionally screw over thier number 1 (by some counts) or at worse 2nd merch draw to "send a message" to nerds?

Real talk for a minute. All WWE cares about is money. They don't care who's it is, as long as it's green.

Both Bryan and Punk, but especially punk, are making them a buttload right now in merch. why would they risk that to prove some point to the internet?

This is a match they hope will help a weak, throw away PPV that they shouldn't even have in the first place not a message to the IWC. if anything it's an olive branch "please buy our ppv!!! we put your favorites on it!!"

[bigtplaystew]

Soooo you think that the WWE is going to intentionally screw over thier number 1 (by some counts) or at worse 2nd merch draw to "send a message" to nerds?

Real talk for a minute. All WWE cares about is money. They don't care who's it is, as long as it's green.

Both Bryan and Punk, but especially punk, are making them a buttload right now in merch. why would they risk that to prove some point to the internet?

This is a match they hope will help a weak, throw away PPV that they shouldn't even have in the first place not a message to the IWC. if anything it's an olive branch "please buy our ppv!!! we put your favorites on it!!"


You see, there are people who really do think that their antagonistic relationship with pro wrestling is legitimate. In turn, they convince themselves that WWE is antagonistic with THEM, which fuels and justifies their hostility.

[Makhai]

You see, there are people who really do think that their antagonistic relationship with pro wrestling is legitimate. In turn, they convince themselves that WWE is antagonistic with THEM, which fuels and justifies their hostility.

I wouldn't put myself in that category. I've never seen a ROH show before. I'm a casual, if you're going to typecast me.

[Makhai]

Soooo you think that the WWE is going to intentionally screw over thier number 1 (by some counts) or at worse 2nd merch draw to "send a message" to nerds?

Real talk for a minute. All WWE cares about is money. They don't care who's it is, as long as it's green.

Both Bryan and Punk, but especially punk, are making them a buttload right now in merch. why would they risk that to prove some point to the internet?

This is a match they hope will help a weak, throw away PPV that they shouldn't even have in the first place not a message to the IWC. if anything it's an olive branch "please buy our ppv!!! we put your favorites on it!!"

In a sports entertainment model where you are in the storylines is all that matters to your long-term prospects. How much money is Sheamus really making the WWE right now? Every ad for Over The Limit right now is about Randy Orton. Cena is getting all of the Raw rub. It's clear where creative want their bread to be buttered moving forward. Orton/Sheamus/Cena/Lesnar. Everybody else can job to Brodus Clay and Lord Tensai...

[ampulator]

My problem with WWE is they sometimes think they are something in their self-interest, but really, they are doing doing something against it. They don't understand that they are.

[Jaysin]

This got a legit lol out of me.
http://botchedspot.com/2012/05/14/no-time-off/

For those that don't feel like clicking.

http://botchedspot.com/files/comics/2012-05-14-no-time-off.jpg

[Fantabulous]

Big lulz at the idea WWE wouldn't risk money to send a message.

You see, it's not like WWE haven't screwed big money up before in order to make a point.

[Self]

RAW is going to be 3-hours now.

When did being a WWE fan become such a commitment? I remember the days when I stayed up late on a Friday night to watch the UK showing on RAW, and that was it. Two hours of TV and I knew everything I needed for schoolyard conversations/fights.

I haven't watched a PPV in one sitting in a long time. I simply can't find the time. No way I could do it weekly. Good thing I don't watch RAW anyway.

[The Final Countdown]

RAW is going to be 3-hours now.

When did being a WWE fan become such a commitment? I remember the days when I stayed up late on a Friday night to watch the UK showing on RAW, and that was it. Two hours of TV and I knew everything I needed for schoolyard conversations/fights.

I haven't watched a PPV in one sitting in a long time. I simply can't find the time. No way I could do it weekly. Good thing I don't watch RAW anyway.
What're you talking about?! Remember how great it was when Nitro went to 3 hours?!

Oh, wait...

[Makhai]

This got a legit lol out of me.
http://botchedspot.com/2012/05/14/no-time-off/

For those that don't feel like clicking.

http://botchedspot.com/files/comics/2012-05-14-no-time-off.jpg

On this same note:

http://botchedspot.com/files/comics/2012-05-09-predator.jpg

[mike b]

Yupp coming in July Raw is going to 3 hours

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/wwe-raw-expanding-3-hour-tv-show-fans-221300972--spt.html

[Basmat01]

It could mean that Smackdown might either be cut back to like 1 1/2 hours or axed all together. Might mean the end of Superstars too.

[milamber]

Punk on SD! Big Johnny got a huge amount of heat from the crowd.

Sandow holding the mic like a wine glass and Tatsu calling him a chicken was funny :) Not sure about the pink tights but Sandow's modified neckbreaker was cool.

Bryan on commentary = Yes! Punk v Kane was a surprisingly good match with a great finish.

Orton and Sheamus are a good match in the ring. The Fatal 4-Way should be fun.

[milamber]

I thought I read a few months ago that Superstars was being axed after its current contract runs out. I doubt they'll cut Smackdown.

[Tha Black Phenom]

My attention span has decreased dramatically in terms of watching Raw lately, if it goes to three hours then I probably just won't bother. Thinking about how tedious the replays and Did You Know facts and adverts are gonna be, just irks me. Especially the replays, I've seen Raws in the past where they replay a superstar's words in a promo... without anything else happening. Of course, there can be an optimistic outlook on how they'll probably put more time on the midcard, but they could just as well put more time on the main-eventers too. Either way.. bah.

[shawn michaels 82]

In a sports entertainment model where you are in the storylines is all that matters to your long-term prospects. How much money is Sheamus really making the WWE right now? Every ad for Over The Limit right now is about Randy Orton. Cena is getting all of the Raw rub. It's clear where creative want their bread to be buttered moving forward. Orton/Sheamus/Cena/Lesnar. Everybody else can job to Brodus Clay and Lord Tensai...

Amen. WWE is all about winning streaks to big guys atm. Tensay, Ryback, Clay. I mean....what the hell?? John Cena and then CM punk losing to Tensai? Preposterous! That's the kind of push that will make people resent him. And punk keeps losing or beein beaten up more times then a WWE CHAMP should be! Bad booking, i say. And Bryan? His win over Ryder was his first clean win in a long time, or one of the few. Someone should tell wwe creatives that it's okay for a hell to win cleanly from time to time, epecially if he's being pushed as a legithimate athlete and a master of submission.

And what's next for TEnsai? The guy won versus the WWE Champion, and Cena...i mean, if we follow logic, he's currently the top guy on the roster, at least until someone beats him. And i mean...really, Albert and that ridiculous gimmick beating the WWE CHampion? Dear God... The funny thing here is that we all know how this ends. Cena beats TEnsai, winning streak ends, Tensai drops down the card, TEnsay eventually get the boot on the ass and is fired again. Anyway, the WWE is really getting boring again. THing were looking good, but after WM it's been all the way down since then. I like the 3hrs RAW, because despite everything, i'm still a sports entertainement fan, and there's still some good things to see on WWE. But it could be much better. LEt's wait and see.

[shawn michaels 82]

I thought I read a few months ago that Superstars was being axed after its current contract runs out. I doubt they'll cut Smackdown.

Isn't SD being successfull on Syfy? I doubt they'll cut it. They're just taking advantage of the end of the brand split. BEcause let's be honest, the brand split only exists in theory these days. And that's fine, we can have great talent on both shows. But of course they had to screw that too. :D

[milamber]

Over the Limit Should Be Replaced with King of the Ring (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1189261-wwe-over-the-limit-should-be-replaced-with-king-of-the-ring)

I agree. Over the Limit is really just a warm-down PPV from Extreme Rules.

My predictions:

Kane vs. Zack Ryder
Kofi Kingston & R-Truth (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger
Sheamus (c) vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio
CM Punk (c) vs. Daniel Bryan - Who better to dethrone Punk. Bryan is hot and the momentum doesn't need to stop now. And I'd like to see the feud continue in the background until WM 29.
Layla (c) vs. Beth Phoenix
John Cena vs. John Laurinaitis

And I'm praying for Sandow or Cesaro get the filler match instead of Brodus.

[Makhai]

I agree. Over the Limit is really just a warm-down PPV. But, the WWE has the roster to run 12 great PPVs, so it should run 12 great PPVs.

Kane vs. Zack Ryder in 4:01 via sadness; Kane sits in the back ready for when he gets squashed on RAW by Brodus Clay...

Battle Royale: Who ****ing cares?

Kofi Kingston & R-Truth (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger - 8:15; via pinfall. Yeah, don't even know why this is on the card really. If the champs don't retain it'll be the worst booking decision since The Gobbledy Gooker was still in his egg.

Layla (c) vs. Beth Phoenix at 5:46 via DQ after Kharma "runs" in and destroys Beth as Layla runs off with her belt... sets up feud for No Way Out... maybe?

CM Punk (c) vs. Daniel Bryan at 15:18 via pinfall; - Words cannot describe how disappointed I am right now.

Sheamus(c) vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio - over Del Rio at 18:14 via pinfall; Orton is the guy right now and this just screams set-up feud for Orton-Lesnar's cage-match at No Way Out. Weather that includes Sheamus or not in some way, who cares?

John Cena vs. John Laurinaitis at 11:08 via pinfall following botched interference from Joe Laurinaitis and actual interference from Dean Ambrose...

Projected Show Grade: D

[Jaysin]

I agree. Over the Limit is really just a warm-down PPV. But, the WWE has the roster to run 12 great PPVs, so it should run 12 great PPVs.


Kane vs. Zack Ryder in 4:01 via sadness; Kane sits in the back ready for when he gets squashed on RAW by Brodus Clay...

Kofi Kingston & R-Truth (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger - 8:15; via pinfall. Yeah, don't even know why this is on the card really. If the champs don't retain it'll be the worst booking decision since The Gobbledy Gooker was still in his egg.

Layla (c) vs. Beth Phoenix at 5:46 via DQ after Kharma "runs" in and destroys Beth as Layla runs off with her belt... sets up feud for No Way Out... maybe?

Sheamus(c) vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio - over Del Rio at 16:14 via pinfall;Orton is the guy right now and this just screams set-up feud for Orton-Lesnar's cage-match at No Way Out. Weather that includes Sheamus or not in some way, who cares?

John Cena vs. John Laurinaitis at 13:11 via pinfall following botched interference from Joe Laurinaitis and actual interference from Dean Ambrose...

CM Punk (c) vs. Daniel Bryan at 46:18 via technical submission due to Anaconda Vice; - Punk's the moneymaker here, you do not slay the golden goose. You give him a career building match against a long-term rival... This will do nicely.

Highly doubt they'll get anywhere near that amount of time...Probably 15-20 minutes tops.

[Makhai]

Highly doubt they'll get anywhere near that amount of time...Probably 15-20 minutes tops.

There's only 5 matches on this card... Unless Cena-Johnny is going 30, they've got to get the typical 1hr 15-1hr 30 of match time. Unless they're going to have Paul Heyman do a 40min Brock Lesnar legal skit... Which... probably could happen actually...

[Jaysin]

A battle royal has been added to the show and the winner faces either the US or IC champion later in the show. That takes up more time.

I'd love Punk and Bryan to get a ton of time, I just don't think it'll happen.

If Johnny Ace has kept even in decent shape, his match with Cena shouldn't be too bad. They may blow up his accomplishments on Raw, but the dude was a pretty good wrestler. He just had nowhere near the amount of charisma his brother had.

[Makhai]

A battle royal has been added to the show and the winner faces either the US or IC champion later in the show. That takes up more time.

I'd love Punk and Bryan to get a ton of time, I just don't think it'll happen.

If Johnny Ace has kept even in decent shape, his match with Cena shouldn't be too bad. They may blow up his accomplishments on Raw, but the dude was a pretty good wrestler. He just had nowhere near the amount of charisma his brother had.

They also reordered the card and buried it behind the Tag-Title match and almost surely, the US/IC title match. Who's booking this card? TEW AI?

[Jaysin]

Striker and Mathews should just announce the entire show instead of just the pre show...

Cole and King don't hold a candle to them

Also, I expect Big Show and/or Lesnar getting involved in Johnny Ace/Cena

[Jaysin]

Shocked, but happy Kane won. Pretty good match. Too bad it wasn't on the main card though. Kane and Ryder both brought it tonight.

[shawn michaels 82]

Striker and Mathews should just announce the entire show instead of just the pre show...

Cole and King don't hold a candle to them

Also, I expect Big Show and/or Lesnar getting involved in Johnny Ace/Cena

Cole is terribly underrated. And king does fine when he brings his A-game. Sure, he had a lot of chemistry with JR, so it's hard to top that, but they do fine. But hey, everything is better then the 5 time...5 time....5 time.... World chump, Booker T. :D

[Jaysin]

At least Booker is entertaining because he's so bad. Cole just sucks, King has a winning line every once in awhile, but I've always thought Cole sucked.

[Jaysin]

Christian!!!!

Hopefully he wins