The Official WWE Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Wrestling Century]

For WM:

3. Chris Jericho vs Edge: These two are two of my favorite pro wrestlers of all time. They have put on tons of good matches, and this one is looking to be another one.

2. ShoMiz vs R-Truth & John Morrison: I have liked the storyline build up, and this looks to be a great tag title match with who I think are 3 up and coming wrestlers and an awesome former World Champ.

1. Vince McMahon vs Bret Hart: At first I wasn't too excited for this. But when they made this match a No Holds Barred match, I marked out. One of my favorite mark out moments was at WMXIX when it was Hulk Hogan vs Vince in a Street Fight, which, while IMO not a technical masterpiece, was a great WM match. I think that this match will also be one, and I think that pieces of the match will look great if they put them in highlight packages.

[shawn michaels 82]

For WM:

3. Chris Jericho vs Edge: These two are two of my favorite pro wrestlers of all time. They have put on tons of good matches, and this one is looking to be another one.

2. ShoMiz vs R-Truth & John Morrison: I have liked the storyline build up, and this looks to be a great tag title match with who I think are 3 up and coming wrestlers and an awesome former World Champ.

1. Vince McMahon vs Bret Hart: At first I wasn't too excited for this. But when they made this match a No Holds Barred match, I marked out. One of my favorite mark out moments was at WMXIX when it was Hulk Hogan vs Vince in a Street Fight, which, while IMO not a technical masterpiece, was a great WM match. I think that this match will also be one, and I think that pieces of the match will look great if they put them in highlight packages.


For years i wanted to see Bret back, but i had to accept the fact that he just couldn't do it. So...why did he return in the first place? I mean...this is not the 90's, he isn't going to deliver a classic like in teh old days. Even with the match stipulation he won't be able to get involved in too many violence for obvious reasons. Of course we all know he'll spend the match pounding on vince, but still...i think the old school fans will resent Bret for this match after all is said and done. But who knows? Maybe i'm wrong.

[crownsy]

For years i wanted to see Bret back, but i had to accept the fact that he just couldn't do it. So...why did he return in the first place? I mean...this is not the 90's, he isn't going to deliver a classic like in teh old days. Even with the match stipulation he won't be able to get involved in too many violence for obvious reasons. Of course we all know he'll spend the match pounding on vince, but still...i think the old school fans will resent Bret for this match after all is said and done. But who knows? Maybe i'm wrong.

agree with all you wrote, but i'll still mark out hard if he wears the old hitman ring attire :D

[Tha Black Phenom]

For years i wanted to see Bret back, but i had to accept the fact that he just couldn't do it. So...why did he return in the first place? I mean...this is not the 90's, he isn't going to deliver a classic like in teh old days. Even with the match stipulation he won't be able to get involved in too many violence for obvious reasons. Of course we all know he'll spend the match pounding on vince, but still...i think the old school fans will resent Bret for this match after all is said and done. But who knows? Maybe i'm wrong.

I doubt it. I would hope no one expects Bret to put on a classic or anything, or not even to take big bumps. I mean, it's not like Bret's facing Jericho or Cena. He's facing someone 10 years OLDER than him. From the get-go, I would hope that everyone sees putting on a "good match" is really not what this is about. It's about entertaining. Bret wants to put himself out there one last time for the fans. They'll try to do what they humanely can and maybe it won't be as bad. I'm cool with it.

And if old-school fans can't see that, then they're the problem.

I think Goldberg has so much left to offer the business. His run with the E was so disappointing. I can not believe we never got Goldberg vs Austin.

I remember when I was little, seldom watching both WCW and WWF and I had trouble differentiating the two. For a while, I thought Austin was the big dog in WCW and Goldberg in WWF. That constant confusion instantly became my dream match because if there was one thing I was sure of, is that they weren't in the same company.


Edit I do think it would be cool if they announced a stipulation that would be in the WM MITB You can't have been a former World champion. I think it would kayfabe explain why ME's don't care about being in it and I think it would do a good job emphasizing how big of a push/opportunity it is.


I don't know.. doesn't look necessary. Cause like, I get it, about emphasizing the premise of the match and all but at the same time.. you wanna keep your options open. You put that stipulation in and all those former World champions turned upper-midcarders are gonna become big question marks. Part of WrestleMania is trying to book a lot of talent into it to make everyone happy, I guess MITB served as a good purpose on that end. But with that stip, all the Kanes and the King Bookers will have to find somethin' else to do. They could, but.. doesn't make it easier.

[shawn michaels 82]

agree with all you wrote, but i'll still mark out hard if he wears the old hitman ring attire :D

I'll have to agree with you on that one. Me too.

[Remianen]

I think people misdiagnose the real reason why they split the Rockers: according to both Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty, they were getting into fights with each other all the time backstage. They were barely keeping together.

Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty were two very different people. Shawn Michaels was a jerk at the time, but he remained more focused and determined than Marty Jannetty. He did his share of party (a lot) but he didn't keep from keeping himself together. Michaels, probably rightfully, felt that Jannetty's lifestyle was going to get him into trouble.

Marty Jannetty wasn't a jerk, but he had... drug and alcohol issues. And his look was very outdated, even for the 80's. They tried to push him, but his personal issues just got him in trouble.

It makes Jannetty sound like the villain... but he isn't. If he could have kept his stuff together, he wouldn't be let go. It's really sad what happened to Marty Jannetty, because he was actually the better of the two in the beginning in terms of ring skills. I still remember his match against Chris Benoit in WCW and his match against Kurt Angle in WWE. He was really good.

Umm....

They split because one had 'STAR' practically tattooed on his forehead and the other, well, didn't. They were almost exact precursors to the Hardyz. One was practically dripping with charisma and the other....was good in the ring.

ampulator, I don't know which promotion you're referring to, but with WWE, charisma and star power buys you forgiveness. Jannetty does not, and never had, the level of charisma of a Michaels. Even with no substance problems, he would've still been released/fired/future endeavored. If you honestly think that Marty Jannetty had any marketable gifts that would have assured his continued employment (and we all know what gifts are required to do that in WWE), I don't know what to tell you. Sure, his issues hastened his decline and eventual firing but this is WWE we're talking about. By all accounts (and especially by Bret's), Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart and Davey Boy Smith and Dynamite Kid were hopped up on SOMETHING for much of their WWF-E runs. Hell, Anvil was even a crackhead (literally) at one point. How many people kept their jobs after surfacing in the Signature Pharmacy case? Lemme see if I remember: Batista, Randy Orton, Edge, Santino, Chavo, and William Regal. Notice anything about these names (especially the first three)? How many Wellness violations have been racked up by current members of the roster? Rob Van Dam as a champion in WWE (do I need to cite the incident?). So you can use/abuse steroids np, show up in a statewide investigation that piggybacked a FEDERAL investigation (and you'd better believe Vince wants no part of those anymore), and smokin' the cheeba to clear your mind is fine, but God forbid you have a few too many a few nights in a row and pop a few pills? Come on.

It was obvious that Shawn was destined for great things and Marty...wasn't. "People" aren't selling Marty short, they're stating facts based on prevailing, overwhelming evidence.

agree with all you wrote, but i'll still mark out hard if he wears the old hitman ring attire :D

Ha! The shoulder tassels and all.

[ampulator]

Umm....



ampulator, I don't know which promotion you're referring to, but with WWE, charisma and star power buys you forgiveness. Jannetty does not, and never had, the level of charisma of a Michaels. Even with no substance problems, he would've still been released/fired/future endeavored. If you honestly think that Marty Jannetty had any marketable gifts that would have assured his continued employment (and we all know what gifts are required to do that in WWE), I don't know what to tell you. Sure, his issues hastened his decline and eventual firing but this is WWE we're talking about. By all accounts (and especially by Bret's), Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart and Davey Boy Smith and Dynamite Kid were hopped up on SOMETHING for much of their WWF-E runs. Hell, Anvil was even a crackhead (literally) at one point. How many people kept their jobs after surfacing in the Signature Pharmacy case? Lemme see if I remember: Batista, Randy Orton, Edge, Santino, Chavo, and William Regal. Notice anything about these names (especially the first three)? How many Wellness violations have been racked up by current members of the roster? Rob Van Dam as a champion in WWE (do I need to cite the incident?). So you can use/abuse steroids np, show up in a statewide investigation that piggybacked a FEDERAL investigation (and you'd better believe Vince wants no part of those anymore), and smokin' the cheeba to clear your mind is fine, but God forbid you have a few too many a few nights in a row and pop a few pills? Come on.

It was obvious that Shawn was destined for great things and Marty...wasn't. "People" aren't selling Marty short, they're stating facts based on prevailing, overwhelming evidence.



Ha! The shoulder tassels and all.
You see, Marty might not have the star quality he did, but he certainly had it more than certain people. People say he lacked charisma and mic skills... but from what I've seen, he's wasn't that bad. If Shawn Michaels was an A* in the Star Quality department, Marty was a B-. Huge difference? Yes! But not so much that he couldn't have at least remained a good upper midcarder or even just midcarder. As for his so called lack of charisma and mic skills, he wasn't absolutely horrid that people make him out to be. Remember, Shawn Michaels didn't have the mic skills early on... he had to develop it.

Marty was held back because of his personal demons. Marty and Shawn said in shoot interviews (which have been since been taken down), that the WWF had planned to do something with Marty, but Marty was even more drugged out than Shawn (which is, ironically, why Shawn wanted to break up with him).

[justtxyank]

Look, Marty has been underrated and marginalized by history. He was good. The E was a fan of his. They tried hard to give him pushes throughout the 90s, but he always managed to derail himself. When HBK turned on Marty he had a good feud with him and was getting good reactions. The E even let him have a win over HBK. If Marty could have kept himself clean and updated his look he could have been so much more than he was.

[ampulator]

Look, Marty has been underrated and marginalized by history. He was good. The E was a fan of his. They tried hard to give him pushes throughout the 90s, but he always managed to derail himself. When HBK turned on Marty he had a good feud with him and was getting good reactions. The E even let him have a win over HBK. If Marty could have kept himself clean and updated his look he could have been so much more than he was.
Exactly. Sadly, drugs have derailed more careers than anything else. In fact, when Marty Jannetty came back with Shawn Michaels in a Rockers Reunion, he got a good reaction, and when he went up against Kurt Angle, he got an even BETTER reaction, and had a good TV match with Kurt Angle.

[Candyman]

So you can use/abuse steroids np, show up in a statewide investigation that piggybacked a FEDERAL investigation (and you'd better believe Vince wants no part of those anymore), and smokin' the cheeba to clear your mind is fine, but God forbid you have a few too many a few nights in a row and pop a few pills? Come on.

You really don't get it, do you? Jannetty being released had nothing to do with how much he drank or what pills he popped...nor did it have anything to do with any lack of skill or star quality. He was released because he no showed, arrived at the arena severely under the influence of those pills, and because he couldn't work matches because he was in jail. The WWE couldn't care less if you use steroids, get high, drink your weight in beer on a nightly basis, or give new definition to the phrase abusing prescription drugs - as long as it's not affecting your performance. Show up at the arena on time and ready to work and you can do whatever you want outside the arena - don't, and you're gone no matter what you're doing outside the arena. And that's why Jannetty couldn't keep a job.

[ampulator]

You really don't get it, do you? Jannetty being released had nothing to do with how much he drank or what pills he popped...nor did it have anything to do with any lack of skill or star quality. He was released because he no showed, arrived at the arena severely under the influence of those pills, and because he couldn't work matches because he was in jail. The WWE couldn't care less if you use steroids, get high, drink your weight in beer on a nightly basis, or give new definition to the phrase abusing prescription drugs - as long as it's not affecting your performance. Show up at the arena on time and ready to work and you can do whatever you want outside the arena - don't, and you're gone no matter what you're doing outside the arena. And that's why Jannetty couldn't keep a job.
While I don't disagree with what you said, but WWF DOES care, at least now. Why? Because even if they aren't involved in anyway whatsoever, they still can look bad, or people might still suspect them might be involved in some way. WWE does care, even it doesn't affect your performance adversely, if only to protect themselves.

As for Jannetty, it's similar sad stories all over wrestling... Scott Hall. Jake Roberts...

[James Casey]

For years i wanted to see Bret back, but i had to accept the fact that he just couldn't do it. So...why did he return in the first place? I mean...this is not the 90's, he isn't going to deliver a classic like in teh old days. Even with the match stipulation he won't be able to get involved in too many violence for obvious reasons.

Vince/Hogan and Vince/Shawn both involved Vince getting his rear end kicked for 90% of the match and were great fun. I'm sure the match will be no classic, and will probably only last a few minutes, but when Bret locks in the Sharpshooter... that will be a Wrestlemania moment.

[bookerman]

Tag team wrestling has it's place. Current day, I could see it being used as a way to break in young talent by either pairing them with veterans who aren't doing much or bringing them in together and letting them slowly work up the ladder. The thing that the WWE fails to do is plan long term (i'm talking years here). They bring up singles talent and either burn through potential matches in a few months or continue to bring up new talent instead of taking the time to fully flesh out and establish the talent they have. They have a whole show devoted to guys trying to make it to the WWE while they have guys like Swagger, Mcintyre, etc who haven't been up long and whose character hasn't been fully developed. This is in addition to guys like Rhodes, Dibiase who are more established but still growing into their characters. This is akin to a sports team constantly shuffling guys in and out of the bottom third of their roster without really giving those guys a fair chance to see if they can make it at this level.

Back to the tags. Putting guys together and letting them work while developing is a solid way to a) keep them fresh, b) hide weaknesses, c)give them confidence in front of large crowds, and d) make them more valuable long term. Yes, it's more costly short term, but if the WWE has already invested time/money into getting these guys to this level, don't you think they'd like to have something to show for it besides a 3 month run with the big club and then being sent back down or released. After tagging for a while, they can be given house show matches or early segments against some of the midcard or higher talent to see how they look. This is how Bret/Shawn eventually moved to singles. Bret had house matches with Dibiase, Perfect,etc and even though he lost, he still made a good showing and proved to be someone who could shine in singles.

As far as money goes, do you think someone like Kane or Big Show is actually earning what they are making? These guys are in UMH (Upper Midcard Hades) and I'm sure are being paid well even though they aren't draws or headliners. Really, I think you could use these two in tags (even together as a team) and as heavyweight gateways into the upper card for some of the younger monsters (Swagger for instance). Keep em strong over the midcard, have them lose to the MEs.

Enough rambling. Point being, the WWE could use tags effectively if they chose to devote time and energy to doing so.

[shawn michaels 82]

Vince/Hogan and Vince/Shawn both involved Vince getting his rear end kicked for 90% of the match and were great fun. I'm sure the match will be no classic, and will probably only last a few minutes, but when Bret locks in the Sharpshooter... that will be a Wrestlemania moment.

Don't disagree. In fact, in a very poor wrestlemania, hbk/vince ended up beeing the best match that year. But of course, shawn can carry everyone (and i mean EVERYONE) to a great match, even if he does it by kicking the hell out of them for 90% of the match, as he did with vince. I remember that match, and it was no classic of course, byt i enjoyed it.

[Hyde Hill]

Tag team wrestling has it's place. Current day, I could see it being used as a way to break in young talent by either pairing them with veterans who aren't doing much or bringing them in together and letting them slowly work up the ladder. The thing that the WWE fails to do is plan long term (i'm talking years here). They bring up singles talent and either burn through potential matches in a few months or continue to bring up new talent instead of taking the time to fully flesh out and establish the talent they have. They have a whole show devoted to guys trying to make it to the WWE while they have guys like Swagger, Mcintyre, etc who haven't been up long and whose character hasn't been fully developed. This is in addition to guys like Rhodes, Dibiase who are more established but still growing into their characters. This is akin to a sports team constantly shuffling guys in and out of the bottom third of their roster without really giving those guys a fair chance to see if they can make it at this level.

Back to the tags. Putting guys together and letting them work while developing is a solid way to a) keep them fresh, b) hide weaknesses, c)give them confidence in front of large crowds, and d) make them more valuable long term. Yes, it's more costly short term, but if the WWE has already invested time/money into getting these guys to this level, don't you think they'd like to have something to show for it besides a 3 month run with the big club and then being sent back down or released. After tagging for a while, they can be given house show matches or early segments against some of the midcard or higher talent to see how they look. This is how Bret/Shawn eventually moved to singles. Bret had house matches with Dibiase, Perfect,etc and even though he lost, he still made a good showing and proved to be someone who could shine in singles.

As far as money goes, do you think someone like Kane or Big Show is actually earning what they are making? These guys are in UMH (Upper Midcard Hades) and I'm sure are being paid well even though they aren't draws or headliners. Really, I think you could use these two in tags (even together as a team) and as heavyweight gateways into the upper card for some of the younger monsters (Swagger for instance). Keep em strong over the midcard, have them lose to the MEs.

Enough rambling. Point being, the WWE could use tags effectively if they chose to devote time and energy to doing so.

Yep plus like I said before a good tag division is a draw in and of itself adding to the amount of people the main eventers draw.

Over simplified analogy:

Good Main Event Scene, decent midcard, crappy tag scene: 2.0
Good Main Event Scene, decent midcard, decent tag scene: 2.5
Good Main Event Scene, decent midcard, good tag scene: 3.0

So a good tag scene means extra money for the promotion and all the workers involved in the promotion only the correlation isn't as direct as with Single workers in the ME scene.

[Franchise22]

here are my mania thoughts:

Taker/HBK:
something fishy here....pinfall or sub only? wreaks of a non clean finish. HBK goes down due to controversy. perhaps HHH? Afterall hbk did walk out on DX and cost them the unified tag titles. HBK has been selfish andobsessed and could be perfect for HHH to go heel and turn on HBK with that as his premise.... (i dont know how that will effect program with sheamus)

Legacy 3 way:
maybe i missed something but why is this a 3 way and not handicap? this makes me clearly think cody or ted goes rouge and re-unites with RKO and beats down the other or one goes gets a sneaky win screwing the other out of it setting up them fueding with each other.

Punk vs Rey:
Punk is so awesome as heel. no other feelings about this match. should be good in ring. Rey always plays the crybaby. ive grown to detest rey rey.

MITB:
spotfest as usual, which is cool with me. 10 wrestlers in? im going to have to say i feel its Christian or Drew taking this.

Hart v Vince:
how do you give an apology to someone you burned so bad years ago? you let them beat the snot out of you at the biggest event of the year for your company!!!!

Cena v Batisita:
i feel cena wins here. I do enojoy this heel batista, but i think the stars are aligned for a win for Cena.

Jericho v Edge:
Story seems to point to Edge win, but i dont see both titles changing hands. so im going with jericho to retain with a spear reversal into a codebreaker :) or underhanded tactics....Edge wins at next event.

Divas:
Dont care. sorry :( Maryse is hot tho.

[xphen0m]

Don't disagree. In fact, in a very poor wrestlemania, hbk/vince ended up beeing the best match that year.

Am I the only one that even remotely liked WrestleMania 22?

[bookerman]

I know Cena is the uberface, but is there ANY chance they pull a Rock at Survivor Series and have him turn on Batista and say "Hey you know what...I am a corporate puppet!!" It would be totally against his image, but the everyman wholesome Cena is probably less entertaining than heel Cena with McMahon backing. Granted, I want as little McMahon on my TV as possible, but it's an interesting idea no? His take no prisoners ideals turn into "screw you, you can't touch me!".

Then again, he'll probably kick out of 3 Batista bombs and signal the return of super Cena.

[jesterx7769]

He won't turn heel until he stops sellining so much merchandise, doing movies, and tv appearances, Make a Wish ambassador. He is clearly the Golden Boy and they wouldn't risk losing that.

Do I see it in the future? Yes. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head that spent their career of any decent length as only a heel/face

[Franchise22]

I can't think of anyone off the top of my head that spent their career of any decent length as only a heel/face

Ricky Steamboat!!! Face his whole career.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Am I the only one that even remotely liked WrestleMania 22?

I did, it was decent for what it was. Edge/Foley, RVD winning the MITB, the aforementioned street fight, and.. I think that's it. HHH/Cena was quite suspenseful(Cena being the first one to kick out of the Pedigree in ages, vice versa with the F-U) and hosted hot crowd reactions as well.

[shawn michaels 82]

I did, it was decent for what it was. Edge/Foley, RVD winning the MITB, the aforementioned street fight, and.. I think that's it. HHH/Cena was quite suspenseful(Cena being the first one to kick out of the Pedigree in ages, vice versa with the F-U) and hosted hot crowd reactions as well.

I think that a couple of good moments don't put on a good wrestlemania. Maybe i had a bad choise of words when i said "very poor", but they had already jumped the shark by then. That's a fact.

[xphen0m]

Except for the Playboy match and Boogey/Booker, I thought Mania 22 was actually enjoyable. At least, it was to me. I still watch it quite frequently to this very day. Even Taker/Henry was watchable. WM22 was easily the best PPV that year, IMO, outside of Unforgiven and Judgment Day.

[Tha Black Phenom]

How could you forget ONS 06? :eek:

[xphen0m]

I honestly didn't like ONS 06. 05's was the one of the greatest PPVs I had ever seen, but 06's.....bleh. I just could not get into it.

[The Shape]

Dayum...RVD/Cena was epic. Edge/Foley/Dreamer/Funk likewise. Tazz choking out Lawyer. Angle slapping Orton around. Just great stuff!

And Unforgiven that year was amazing. Trish's farwell with the sharpshooter, DX/McMahons HIAC (+ Big Show lol) and the TLC main event. And then also in 06 there was of course NYR, which though mostly forgettable had the best ending to any PPV ever. The whole EC match was brilliant and the aftermath...I still have that. On video.

[shawn michaels 82]

I honestly didn't like ONS 06. 05's was the one of the greatest PPVs I had ever seen, but 06's.....bleh. I just could not get into it.

Yup. 05 was very good! Unfortunately VInce had to do some bs by bringing back ECW just because of it. that was crappy thinking. Maybe he'd be better enjoying success with a couple of more ONS,maybe even 5 or 6 and then forget ECW. It died in 2001, it won't be back period. At least never in a permanent way.

[shawn michaels 82]

Dayum...RVD/Cena was epic. Edge/Foley/Dreamer/Funk likewise. Tazz choking out Lawyer. Angle slapping Orton around. Just great stuff!

And Unforgiven that year was amazing. Trish's farwell with the sharpshooter, DX/McMahons HIAC (+ Big Show lol) and the TLC main event. And then also in 06 there was of course NYR, which though mostly forgettable had the best ending to any PPV ever. The whole EC match was brilliant and the aftermath...I still have that. On video.

OMG! John Cena losing the Title when i thought i would have to witness another of his boring wins? Priceless. Definitely one of my "most amazing things in wrestling". (Forgot to put that on the topic we have) Ah well...good times. I was watching it live (not on the audience, i mean live transmission) and i celebrated with champagne. :D

[Wrestling Century]

Am I the only one that even remotely liked WrestleMania 22?

I loved WM22. It was good. I don't really understand why it gets such bad reviews.

[TommyDreamerFan]

OMG! John Cena losing the Title when i thought i would have to witness another of his boring wins? Priceless. Definitely one of my "most amazing things in wrestling". (Forgot to put that on the topic we have) Ah well...good times. I was watching it live (not on the audience, i mean live transmission) and i celebrated with champagne. :D

I still need to get ONS 06 on DVD, but I want it just for the RVD/Cena match. The crowd dynamic is amazing from what I heard.

ONS 05 is still one of my top PPVs of all time. It was true celebration of wrestling, I wish WWE did it all the time.

[ColtCabana]

I think it would be a fun project to make a list of who we would cut

This was a good idea brought up in the TNA thread and I'd thought that it would be worth bringing to the WWE thread.

RAW

Male

The Big Show
Carlito
Chavo Guerrero
Chris Masters
Christian
Cody Rhodes
Evan Bourne
Hornswoggle
Jack Swagger
John Cena
Kofi Kingston
Mark Henry
The Miz
MVP
MVP
Primo
Randy Orton
Santino Marella
Shawn Michaels
Sheamus
Ted DiBiase
Triple H
Vladimir Kozlov
William Regal
Yoshi Tatsu
Zack Ryder

Divas

Alicia Fox
Brie Bella
Eve
Gail Kim
Jillian
Katie Lea
Kelly Kelly
Maryse
Melina
Nikki Bella
Rosa Mendes


Smackdown

Male

Batista
Caylen Croft
Chris Jericho
CM Punk
David Hart Smith
Dolph Ziggler
Drew McIntyre
Drew Galloway
Edge
Ezekiel Jackson
Finlay
Goldust
The Great Khali
Jimmy Wang Yang
John Morrison
JTG
Kane
Kung Fu Naki
Luke Gallows
Matt Hardy
Mike Knox
R-Truth
Shad
Shelton Benjamin
Slam Master J
Trent Barreta
Tyson Kidd
The Undertaker

Divas

Beth Phoenix
Layla
Michelle McCool
Mickie James
Natalya
Tiffany
Serena

NXT

Daniel Bryan
Darren Young
David Otunga
Heath Slater
Justin Gabriel
Michael Tarver
Skip Sheffield
Wade Barrett

Who would you cut and why?

[The Shape]

Pretty pointless with WWE as its roster isn't anywhere near as bloated given how much tv time they have.

[ColtCabana]

Still I thought it may of been interesting for discussion.

[The Shape]

xD lol yeah apologies, just based on different logic to the tna one I suppose.

My answer is simple: Heath Slater.

[Self]

More difficult than the TNA question. The rosters are of a manageable size, and WWE are pretty good at choosing their featured players and sticking to them week-to-week.

From RAW (aiming to cut to 20 males, 8 females) I'd cut Chris Masters, Chavo Guerrero, Mark Henry, Primo & Vladamir Koslov. I like them all to an extent, but they're played out. From the girls I'd drop Jillian and The Bella Twins. Kelly Kelly's on the bubble.

From Smackdown (aiming to cut to 22 males, 6 females) I'd cut Funaki, Slam Master J, Kane, Jimmy Wang Yang, Ezekial Jackson & Mike Knox. Tough choices there. Kane & Knox have a lot of value. Common sense would dictate cutting The Dudebusters, but no can do. They're too awesome. From the girls I'd lose Tiffany.

From NXT (aiming to keep 4) I'd cut Darren Young, Heath Slater, Michael Tarver and... um... Toss up between Otunga & Gabriel. Otunga's got a great gimmick, but Gabriel's got the mobility to be a good job guy. Screw it. Wade Barrett is cut. His appeal is all-Jericho atm.

[ColtCabana]

xD lol yeah apologies, just based on different logic to the tna one I suppose.

My answer is simple: Heath Slater.

It's the hair right! :p

Personally, I wouldn't cut many people from the WWE just try different people to push. Possibly make the Womens div's stronger too.

I'd cut:

Slam Master J
Jimmy Yang (His talents are of better use eslewhere)
Croft and Barreta need to go back to FCW


More difficult than the TNA question. The rosters are of a manageable size, and WWE are pretty good at choosing their featured players and sticking to them week-to-week.

From RAW (aiming to cut to 20 males, 8 females) I'd cut Chris Masters, Chavo Guerrero, Mark Henry, Primo & Vladamir Koslov. I like them all to an extent, but they're played out. From the girls I'd drop Jillian and The Bella Twins. Kelly Kelly's on the bubble.

From Smackdown (aiming to cut to 22 males, 6 females) I'd cut Funaki, Slam Master J, Kane, Jimmy Wang Yang, Ezekial Jackson & Mike Knox. Tough choices there. Kane & Knox have a lot of value. Common sense would dictate cutting The Dudebusters, but no can do. They're too awesome. From the girls I'd lose Tiffany.

From NXT (aiming to keep 4) I'd cut Darren Young, Heath Slater, Michael Tarver and... um... Toss up between Otunga & Gabriel. Otunga's got a great gimmick, but Gabriel's got the mobility to be a good job guy. Screw it. Wade Barrett is cut. His appeal is all-Jericho atm.

I agree with alot of those, most I didn't include in my list because I like them or see other uses.

I always thought the Bella twins could be used as valets for the ultra c0cky upper/midcard heel. Kozlov could of been an awesome heel, I've missed most of his run so I don't know if he failed or WWE dropped the ball.

[The Shape]

It's the hair right! :p

It's his face. And voice. Everything else.

[Hyde Hill]

Wouldn't a more interesting discussion be who you would move to which brand? As slowly but surely RAW and Smackdown have started to get some separate identity. Also you forgot the three unassigned ones: Vance Archer, Tyler Reks and Lance Cade.

[Undertaker666]

HBK/Undertaker - Am I the only one who thinks this should've been a casket match?

- With Taker being the "master of mind games" they could've used a casket in the build-up to play off the fact HBK was put on the shelf for a few years because of one.

- It'd be symbolic for 'Your career will/your streak will rest in peace'.

When Taker said, 'On one condition', I was sure it was going to be a casket match... but after I was just left thinking, 'Eh?'

I'm hoping it'll just be a one on one match with no interference, but it stands a chance something's going to happen. Although if Bret interferes, which leads to HBK losing, i'd probably giggle like a schoolgirl. (if HBK wins i'm gonna fly to Connecticut and pee through Vince's letterbox)

[The Masked Orange]

(if HBK wins i'm gonna fly to Connecticut and pee through Vince's letterbox)

Professional. :D

I was expecting a gimmick match. From what I've heard (drunken banter, so not 100% reliable) they have a problem with the stadium they are using and couldn't get a hell in the cell in. Casket could have worked, I don't see any problems with having that.

[The Shape]

Symbology wise casket would've worked but really....it makes for such a sloppy way to finish a match and would really have a very negative affect on how it all builds up to a finish IMO. One on one...career vs. streak, is more than enough.

I hope nobody inteferes, but if they position it as the main event, it wouldn't surprise me xD

[FlameSnoopy]

HBK/Undertaker - Am I the only one who thinks this should've been a casket match?

I hope yes. I don't know the "twists" and "turns" of the feud, but isn't it just that Shawn Michaels is obsessed with breaking Taker's streak, not like he hates him or wants to kill him etc.?

[jesterx7769]

Actually now that you mention it, there really are not any gimmick matches for such a big show, i.e. even last man standing and with them makig their PPV whole gimmick PPV's you think they would like to plug gimmick matches.

Somewhat off topic, but when Undertaker's retired (which seems soon) how long do you guys think until WWE brings in a new undead type character? They've tried a few variations but as long as Taker is with the company a new undead guy will never get over fully but the Taker gimmick has been so popular you know they will have to try again when he's gone

[jesterx7769]

I hope yes. I don't know the "twists" and "turns" of the feud, but isn't it just that Shawn Michaels is obsessed with breaking Taker's streak, not like he hates him or wants to kill him etc.?

He isn't obsessed with the Streak, he is just obsessed with beating Taker since Taker beat him last year at WM and as Shawn said he wrestled a perfect match except for the end so its hard for him to imagine he can't beat him. His original plan was to win the Royal Rumble since that would guarantee him a match with Taker (if he kept the belt) and since his plan failed and Taker wouldn't just give him a match he cost him the belt to piss him off causing Taker to want revenge but as Taker mentioned, he HBK wins he also breaks Taker's streak, hence the career stipulation since if Taker won he wouldn't be getting anything (no title and he's already beaten HBK once so he had nothing to prove) so I agree a fun stipulation could have made it even bigger like HIC since there are no other stipulations and would have been a great Main event with the cage coming down after all the titles have been decided, which someone said they already tried but it wouldn't work in the arena (if its true, don't doubt the poster, more the source) b/c looking back the two didnt have a whole lot going on after the match was finally accepted

[The Shape]

It's the streak he wants to break, he's beaten Taker before, but this is all about Michaels, Mr. Wrestlemania, wanting to do what nobody else has done. Mania being relatively gimmick free except the MITB spotfest and token No Holds barred/hardcoreish match is great, especially given that extreme rules is a month later lol.

[FlameSnoopy]

It's the streak he wants to break, he's beaten Taker before, but this is all about Michaels, Mr. Wrestlemania, wanting to do what nobody else has done. Mania being relatively gimmick free except the MITB spotfest and token No Holds barred/hardcoreish match is great, especially given that extreme rules is a month later lol.

Agree 100%

Michaels and Taker are such high level performers they don't need any stipulation, and I'd say in this case, I don't even want to see it. Plus, WWE does have those gimmick match rape PPV's.

[EddieFnG]

No Holds Barred/hardcoreish match? MATCH? Try matches, three of em, including Taker/HBK of course.

[justtxyank]

I've waffled. I want HBK to end the streak.

[The Shape]

No Holds Barred/hardcoreish match? MATCH? Try matches, three of em, including Taker/HBK of course.

Three? There's Vince/Bret and maybe Taker/HBK will have some weapons etc. And I mentioned MITB separately. But I'm fairly sure Punk/Rey is just one on one now. So I'm not sure if I'm missing something.

[xphen0m]

I could almost swear that I was watching Smackdown a few weeks ago and they mentioned that Punk/Rey would be a street fight. However, they haven't mentioned this since.

[ColtCabana]

I could almost swear that I was watching Smackdown a few weeks ago and they mentioned that Punk/Rey would be a street fight. However, they haven't mentioned this since.

I think it was if Rey beat Gallows, he didn't so now the stip is if Rey loses he will join the SES.

[shawn michaels 82]

I've waffled. I want HBK to end the streak.

I want it too. Bu sadly...i don't see it happening. Shawn is probably going to retire after mania (he teased at in a recent interview,dont remember where though,but i did read it somewhere) wich means there wouldn't be much sense in him winning...oh well...no champagne this year. :D

[Wrestling Century]

Does anybody know how you use a finishing/signature/special move on the No Mercy game for the N64? I can't figure out how.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I really hope HBK/Taker is the main-event, despite reports plotting for Cena/Batista to end the show. The fact is, no matter what the result of that match will be, we're gonna see something horrible happen... and something great at the same time.

[Waghlon]

If Cena/Batista is the final match of the show ill cry.

[Self]

Does anybody know how you use a finishing/signature/special move on the No Mercy game for the N64? I can't figure out how.

One of the more random questions, but I think you Strong Grapple your opponent, then waggle the stick. Could be wrong though, it's been a few years.

[slack]

HBK and Taker have already had a casket match. They don't need another one. A gimmick match would just seem too much.

If they draw to a double count out, would they both retire? Taker would be 17-0-1.

[xphen0m]

The only way for Taker or Michaels to win is by pinfall or submission.

[masterded]

HBK and Taker have already had a casket match. They don't need another one. A gimmick match would just seem too much.

If they draw to a double count out, would they both retire? Taker would be 17-0-1.

If it ended in a draw I think we would see a full blown riot.

[Tag01]

I'd like to see HBK take it, but I think it makes more business sense to give it to taker, especially if HBK is on the way out.

[Rhudipoo]

Is the first part of the Hall of Fame airing on WWE.com as usual tonight? I've got a feeling it ain't, but I thought I would ask...

[Hyde Hill]

It isn't was reported by PWI and/or WO and the WWE itself. Need to buy the DVD for the full show.

[Tweek It]

The money falling from the rafters was crazy. I'm glad Ted finally got inducted.. bout damn time.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Wasting 15 minutes on Bob Oucler(sp?) was stupid. IMO they shouldve used that time for Inoki or Hart.

[Candyman]

Wasting 15 minutes on Bob Oucler(sp?) was stupid. IMO they shouldve used that time for Inoki or Hart.

I disagree completely. If you want Inoki or Hart on TV, Gorgeous George (more accurately, his wife) is the one that should've been bumped.

[Stennick]

Gorgeous George, his wife whoever bumped over Bob Uecker? I found his wife pretty damn entertaini thought Stu Hart was the "main event" entrant this year. I would have liked to see George, Ted and Stu as the three featured.

[Shmoe]

Anyway, who's watching Mania tonight and what're you most looking forward too?

[TheOmniWarrior]

Anyway, who's watching Mania tonight and what're you most looking forward too?

Taker/Michaels 2

[Self]

Anyway, who's watching Mania tonight and what're you most looking forward too?

MITB, Rey-Punk, Bret-Vince.

[Shmoe]

MITB, Rey-Punk, Bret-Vince.

I'm pumped for Punk vs. Mysterio, I think that has huge potential. Bret/Vince of course, just for the inevitable.

I think MITB has a strong line up (with the exceptions of the Scottish guy whose name I can't spell or care to remember and Swagger, who I don't like anyway. But in a ladder match? I hope he proves me wrong though.) I'm excited because none of these guys are particular front runners except perhaps Christian, so it makes some interesting situations for whoever wins.

Also, I noticed on the the matches section for Wrestlemania, Taker vs. Michaels is at the top. Could this mean they close the show, because that would be awesome. Last year Trips vs. Orton fell pretty flat in comparison.

[sebsplex]

Anyway, who's watching Mania tonight and what're you most looking forward too?

Undecided at the moment, but I suspect I'll probably get it this year. I've dropped in and out of watching the WWE in the run up to Mania, but although not too many of the feuds have captured my imagination from a storyline point of view, the actual matches themselves stack up well.

The main draw for me is probably the chance to see Bret back in the ring, even if the match almost certainly isn't going to be a wrestling classic. Then HBK vs Taker II as it pretty much guarantees a great match and the added stip of HBK's career being on the line should mean we get a match considerably different to last year's given the story behind it.

Apart from those, Edge vs Jericho, Punk vs Rey and Money In The Bank stand out for me. Couldn't care less about Batista vs Cena ahead of time as (from what I've seen of it) the build up could have basically been plucked from any number of feuds involving Cena in the last 3-4 years. The match itself though, should be solid enough. Pass on HHH vs Sheamus, again don't really care to see it, although I'm sure it'll turn out to be a watchable match at least.

[The Shape]

You know, as far as ending Taker's streak goes, I've been thinking. Would it be such a bad thing to end it...for the sake of ending it? This match is one of the biggest in Mania history. There's no guarantee Taker's gonna be wrestling this time next year. And all the talk of using it to "put over a new young star"...well firstly I just don't see WWE doing it, because they have trouble trusting people, and giving them that rub would be like the point of no return. No, anyone who gets to end the streak will have to already be an established star. And there's nobody more established than Shawn Michaels. There will be no bigger match than this at Wrestlemania for a long time. The only match Taker has left that would be worth it on this scale is against John Cena. And on the basis that the streak will end, I would rather Michaels did it. It'd be an amazing Wrestlemania moment. And in a way...that's enough.


It won't happen though.

[Candyman]

You know, as far as ending Taker's streak goes, I've been thinking. Would it be such a bad thing to end it...for the sake of ending it? This match is one of the biggest in Mania history. There's no guarantee Taker's gonna be wrestling this time next year. And all the talk of using it to "put over a new young star"...well firstly I just don't see WWE doing it, because they have trouble trusting people, and giving them that rub would be like the point of no return. No, anyone who gets to end the streak will have to already be an established star. And there's nobody more established than Shawn Michaels. There will be no bigger match than this at Wrestlemania for a long time. The only match Taker has left that would be worth it on this scale is against John Cena. And on the basis that the streak will end, I would rather Michaels did it. It'd be an amazing Wrestlemania moment. And in a way...that's enough.


It won't happen though.

I agree. I don't want to see some young guy that hasn't done anything for the WWE end it - just like I wouldn't want to see somebody like that retire Ric Flair. IF they're going to end Undertaker's streak, I think this is the time to do it. They could still have HBK retire, if that's what he wants to do. He could come out on Raw tomorrow night and say "I said that if I couldn't beat Undertaker at Wrestlemania, I have no career...and now that I have beaten Undertaker at Wrestlemania, my career is complete." and give his farewell speech.

[Self]

I would hate that. For the streak to have truly meant something, its end should mean something. If Shawn wins, you'll get one big pop, a couple of weeks talking about it, then it'll be as meaningless as Jack Swagger's win streak. The only reason I'd give Shawn the streak is if he were turning heel off of it, completely changing the landscape of the WWE... but I hate the idea of heel Shawn too, so I'm pulling for an Undertaker win tonight.

No prediction. Just hoping.

[Gabbo]

You know, as far as ending Taker's streak goes, I've been thinking. Would it be such a bad thing to end it...for the sake of ending it? This match is one of the biggest in Mania history. There's no guarantee Taker's gonna be wrestling this time next year. And all the talk of using it to "put over a new young star"...well firstly I just don't see WWE doing it, because they have trouble trusting people, and giving them that rub would be like the point of no return. No, anyone who gets to end the streak will have to already be an established star. And there's nobody more established than Shawn Michaels. There will be no bigger match than this at Wrestlemania for a long time. The only match Taker has left that would be worth it on this scale is against John Cena. And on the basis that the streak will end, I would rather Michaels did it. It'd be an amazing Wrestlemania moment. And in a way...that's enough.


It won't happen though.


It's sort of logical and I do agree the WWE and IWC are constantly worried about the future and who needs a push, whilst all parties need to concentrate on the here and now and treat every show as if its the last.

That said, it's all Taker really has. Never really had a great title reign, no major records or numbers, he's only really had one proper feud in his career (Kane). Undertaker is the streak and I don't see it ever ending.

[xphen0m]

That said, it's all Taker really has. Never really had a great title reign, no major records or numbers, he's only really had one proper feud in his career (Kane). Undertaker is the streak and I don't see it ever ending.

I actually disagree with this.

1. Undertaker's title reign in 1997 was pretty good, and he had quite a few great defenses against Steve Austin, Mankind, and Bret Hart.

2. I'm not too sure what you're referring to when you say records or numbers, but from what I understand, Taker was and is a draw.

3. His original feud with Kane is my all time favorite feud. However, don't forget about his feuds with Shawn Michaels (the original from 1997-1998), Mankind, and Steve Austin (Come on, one of the most controversial angles ever took place in that feud in 1998).

4. I will agree that I think the streak won't end though.

[Gabbo]

You sound like a Taker mark.

By numbers I mean, nothing like first ever triple crown champion, grand slam, record number of world titles, world champ in the big three American promotions, first ever IC and WWF/E champ simultaneously, first ever undisputed champion, royal rumble wins, royal rumble eliminations record, KOTR win, amount of wins and titles, main events and all that etc etc. He holds nothing like that.

Taker's legacy is the streak.

[The Shape]

You sound like a Taker mark.

By numbers I mean, nothing like first ever triple crown champion, grand slam, record number of world titles, world champ in the big three American promotions, first ever IC and WWF/E champ simultaneously, first ever undisputed champion, royal rumble wins, royal rumble eliminations record, KOTR win, amount of wins and titles, main events and all that etc etc. He holds nothing like that.

Taker's legacy is the streak.

Look at his career and compare it to most other people's, he's not going to be forgotten. I don't buy that he has to have some sort of quantifiable measure of success in a business where everything like that is relatively meaningless. Kane holds the most eliminations, big show all three big titles, stuff like IC/WWE champ at the same time I don't even know, KOTR is long forgotten...you really think anything like that takes precedence over the significance of Taker's presence for two decades if he loses one match at wrestlemania?

I'm not saying it should end, just that if it does, I don't think the "young up and comer" idea would appeal. Then we'd just have a guy mentioning how he ended the undertaker's streak years from now. And that's what the primary memory of the undertaker would be. THAT would reduce him to a statistic of sorts. It'd be like jericho still mentioning him beating rock and austin in the same night. Big deal at the time, not as big as this would be obviously, and it didn't do that much for him long term, but still, eventually nobody would care.

edit; the only way I'd want the streak ending to be done with a younger guy would be the ultimate OMG moment that catapults them INSTANTLY. That being, next year, Taker vs. Cena for the World title. Better if Taker's challenger. Taker wins. Out comes MITB winner from earlier in the night (The Miz would far and away be the best at pulling this off) and end the streak, win the title, and become the biggest heel in a very, veeery long time. THAT would be awesome. But having someone end it....they have to already be or instantly become one of THE top guys.

Or if Cena ended it, it'd have to be with the much-denied heel turn.

[Hyde Hill]

Anyway, who's watching Mania tonight and what're you most looking forward too?

Jericho vs Edge despite the crappy storyline
Punk vs Mysterio
Taker vs Michaels although it won't be as good as last year
MITB

[Hyde Hill]

On the streak it really depends on what you define young up and comer someone who has been around for a while and could use true solidification in the main event scene would not be a problem. CM Punk would be the current example. Some new super pushed midcarder would be a bad idea. Sheamus as a current example.

[Self]

On the streak it really depends on what you define young up and comer someone who has been around for a while and could use true solidification in the main event scene would not be a problem. CM Punk would be the current example. Some new super pushed midcarder would be a bad idea. Sheamus as a current example.

I agree. Sheamus. McIntyre. Dibiase. Those guys are too new for my tastes. While I like the idea of a sudden superstar, we haven't really seen how well they connect to the crowd, and whether they can handle what comes after taking the streak. Those rookies are still getting comfortable, still finding their feet. To me, it should be Punk or Miz or Morrison or MVP. Someone who's been around a couple of years and has developed a rapport with the fans, but hasn't quite made it as a 100% top guy yet.

It should either put over a new Main Eventer (who would then main event the majority of the next 9 months of PPV's) or make way for a ground-breaking, earth-shattering event (heel Shawn, heel Cena, heel Jeff Hardy) or they should just leave it be, and let him retire streak-intact.

Me? I'd start pushing Miz & Morrison super-strong right now, leading to them fighting at Royal Rumble. The winner fights 'Taker at Wrestlemania. The winner gets the streak.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I think someone in the perfect role to end Taker's streak would be someone with Punk's status at the moment. Can't really think of anyone else, I guess Miz fits the bill, or indeed a present main-eventer like Cena or Orton. As said though, I hope it doesn't end. But at the same time, I don't wanna see Shawn go.

This will truly be Canada's WrestleMania, two canucks(one of them, sorta) headlining the event, you got Bret giving his one last call, and with a hopeful Christian win this will truly be one for ours to remember. :D

[Prophet]

I think someone in the perfect role to end Taker's streak would be someone with Punk's status at the moment. Can't really think of anyone else, I guess Miz fits the bill, or indeed a present main-eventer like Cena or Orton. As said though, I hope it doesn't end. But at the same time, I don't wanna see Shawn go.

This will truly be Canada's WrestleMania, two canucks(one of them, sorta) headlining the event, you got Bret giving his one last call, and with a hopeful Christian win this will truly be one for ours to remember. :D

You already won the gold in hockey ... now ya gotta take Wrestlemania too? :p

When it comes to the streak ... man, I don't know. I lean towards it ending intact, simply because I don't trust the brain trust at the `E to handle it's end properly. I say this as someone who doesn't claim to be a storyline writer, but I have a feeling that if someone was adamant about ending the streak, they'd build it up with some flimsy storyline with someone who doesn't deserve the opportunity to even get in the ring with`taker. For example -

Big Zeke shows up on television again, after being missing for 4 months, because he's forgotten on the bloated roster of Smackdown. Someone says "I have an idea" and the story begins where Zeke claims to be the most dominant force in wrestling, blah-blah-blippity-blah. Says something about wanting to prove it against the benchmark, to succeed where others have failed, do the impossible. Zeke begins his run, crushing R-Truth, crushing Rey-Rey, crushing Morrison, as he builds momentum to take on `taker, who keeps scoffing at the notion of this nobody challenging the hallowed record. Flimsy story, but maybe passable.

Zeke becomes a thorn, belittles and mocks `taker, `taker finally blows his stack, we progress to WM with these two essentially beating on each other every show. The actual match happens, and it's back and forth, and before you know it, big Zeke's in the tombstone ... except he wiggles out, drops to his knees, and clips `taker between the legs, school boys him, and blammo! The most hallowed record in WM is wiped away with a cheap finish. And that bothers me.

If I were to end the streak, it wouldn't be to Punk, because I don't think Punk "needs" it. And Miz would work perfectly, except that the way I'd do it, he wouldn't fit. If I was gonna have `taker drop the streak, I'd have him do it as a heel. To whomever was going to assume Cena's role pushing forward. Someone like a Kofi Kingston (although probably not actually Kofi Kingston.) I'd have `taker heel turn in November and build from there. At the Rumble, they face off in the Rumble match, where `taker decimates him. Pillar to post. Someone else enters, `taker pauses long enough to throw them out, before returning to the beaten face. I may mirror the Rumble with `taker and Maven to an extent, except go the Piper/Bad News route of eliminating (both go over, and `taker beats him to the back.)

We head into No Way Out with the face being involved in the chamber with `taker, and 4 other guys, with `taker being obsessed with regaining the gold, and ignoring the challenges by our loveable face, calling him a worthless pissant or whatever. NWO happens, and after some back and forth, `taker eliminates the face. He pauses to gloat about his victory, and the kid takes the chance to distract `taker long enough for him to walk into a Codebreaker/Spear/619/Future Shock/etc ... whatever happens to be there at the time. `taker's pinned, and for the second straight ppv, we see these two fight to the back. `taker's so flustered and frustrated by this annoyance that he poses the challenge, to which the kid accepts. I give them a good chunk of time at the event, `taker fights through finishers, while the kid barely kicks out of brutal moves to show the heart of a champion. And in the end, after a strong sequence, the kid hits a rolling sunset off the top rope, the suddenness of it stuns `taker, we get a 1-2-3, and the streak ends on a flash pinfall, building this kid to a mega-star. `taker stands, shocked, as replays of the abuse this kid has endured is shown on the big screen, and he extends his hand in a sign of respect. The kid accepts, they shake, and the kid ducks out, clapping with 78 bajillion people, as `taker takes a long walk back.

Not sure I even like that ending a whole lot, though ... so I'd probably just leave it intact. lol

[The Shape]

Good in theory. But Taker cannot be booked as a heel at this point. Anybody going up against him will get bood and if they end the streak it's HEAT, pure and simple heat that will last for a good while.

For me, it's a Cena heel turn or Miz cashing in MITB after winning it that night. Preferably the latter. He's probably gonna be a heel for all of his career so might as well solidify it lol.

[Prophet]

Part of why I wasn't completely sold. Tenure has probably ruined the chances of a full fledged `taker turn. If done with him as a face, though, yeah, I'd vote Miz. The major difference between Punk and Miz at this point, in my opinion, and the reason I think Punk doesn't "need" this, is that he's a lot like Jericho and Michaels, and even HHH now. CM doesn't need a belt to make a feud more interesting. At this point, Miz does. If Miz beat `taker for the belt, after cashing in MiTB, he could ride that for years. lol

[James Casey]

The streak won't end until and unless Taker chooses it to end. It won't end tonight, because HBK is on the verge of retiring for good this time, and this is the way of phasing him out to come back fit, healthy and energised once a twice a year for DX/WM spots.

[PeterHilton]

Because it would be a mosntrous money maker and it's one of the last 'dream matches' the WWE has left...Cena vs Taker would be my guess as to how the streak ends.

[ampulator]

Actually, I heard Undertaker wanted to end the streak, or at least give the rub to someone. He offered it to Kane, but he refused. I think Orton was another, but he refused too. It was supposed to be Edge until Vince McMahon got cold feet and changed it back.

Although his streak shouldn't end, if he remains a face, it would be a good rub to someone that isn't a heel.

[Franchise22]

im the opposite of most of you on this streak piece. i feel an established name/legend kills it if it is to be ended. ive said this before regarding new guys beating him, what if the ending of the streak does nothing for who beats him? what if they "brock lesnar" the situation and leave alltogether? possible bust?

no sir, you let an hbk, HHH, type end it. a company man. Similiar to hbk and flair. i think it would mean LESS if an up and comer beats him.

overall i feel he should stay perfect. its part of WWE lore, its his legacy. coming up big on the biggest stage. not to be duplicated again.

[benjacko]

Going through the Day 4 of Bret's diary on the WWE website, check out the last pic which hints at what he might wear tonight :)

[shawn michaels 82]

If it is to end, then end it with Michaels, if not, don't. That's what i would like to see.

[Wrestling Century]

One of the more random questions, but I think you Strong Grapple your opponent, then waggle the stick. Could be wrong though, it's been a few years.

Err...How do you strong grapple your opponent? Sorry, but I bought the game used and it didn't come with a manual. :)

[masterded]

Err...How do you strong grapple your opponent? Sorry, but I bought the game used and it didn't come with a manual. :)

Hold the grapple button instead of taping it.

[Wrestling Century]

Hold the grapple button instead of taping it.

Thanks. :)

[LoNdOn]

On the streak it really depends on what you define young up and comer someone who has been around for a while and could use true solidification in the main event scene would not be a problem. CM Punk would be the current example. Some new super pushed midcarder would be a bad idea. Sheamus as a current example.

spot on sir.

[LoNdOn]

Actually, I heard Undertaker wanted to end the streak, or at least give the rub to someone. He offered it to Kane, but he refused. I think Orton was another, but he refused too. It was supposed to be Edge until Vince McMahon got cold feet and changed it back.

Although his streak shouldn't end, if he remains a face, it would be a good rub to someone that isn't a heel.

Where did you hear this?

[Tha Black Phenom]

I heard about the Orton bit around WM21(dunno if before or after), didn't hear about Kane but that wouldn't surprise me.

My pick would be a company man of sorts, but who still has years ahead of him. Punk was my main pick, but can't really label him as a 'company man' yet, that would be more along the lines of Cena/Orton/Jericho.

[sebsy]

As long s if Taker's streak ever is ended, it isn't through any foul or dodgy means then fair enough. They won't end his streak lightly and they will hopefully think very seriously about who should end it, as long as the person who beats him does so fairly.

[Hyde Hill]

Part of why I wasn't completely sold. Tenure has probably ruined the chances of a full fledged `taker turn. If done with him as a face, though, yeah, I'd vote Miz. The major difference between Punk and Miz at this point, in my opinion, and the reason I think Punk doesn't "need" this, is that he's a lot like Jericho and Michaels, and even HHH now. CM doesn't need a belt to make a feud more interesting. At this point, Miz does. If Miz beat `taker for the belt, after cashing in MiTB, he could ride that for years. lol

I think CM is more like Jericho, Michaels and HHH in the IWC's eyes not so much the marks.

spot on sir.

Thanks.:o

[ampulator]

I think CM is more like Jericho, Michaels and HHH in the IWC's eyes not so much the marks.



Thanks.:o
I think that speaks volumes on their confidence in Punk from the IWC, despite what the WWE is doing. We all thought that WWE would misuse him, and a lot of us never thought he would get to a main event champoin, as much as we believe he deserves it.

[TommyDreamerFan]

After spending the past 2 days debating weather to buy this years Wrestlemania, because I haven't been following the product for months, I decided to for the simple fact it's bigger than the super bowl.

I think that speaks volumes on their confidence in Punk from the IWC, despite what the WWE is doing. We all thought that WWE would misuse him, and a lot of us never thought he would get to a main event champoin, as much as we believe he deserves it.

I don't know who said it, but someone once said "you can't stop talent."

[PeterHilton]

HOLY **** Orton is over.

[Candyman]

Actually, I heard Undertaker wanted to end the streak, or at least give the rub to someone. He offered it to Kane, but he refused. I think Orton was another, but he refused too. It was supposed to be Edge until Vince McMahon got cold feet and changed it back.

Although his streak shouldn't end, if he remains a face, it would be a good rub to someone that isn't a heel.

Lol, Orton would NEVER refuse something as ego-boosting as defeating the Undertaker at Wrestlemania. If you believe the rumors that he was supposed to beat Taker, the reason it didn't happen was because Orton had a shoulder injury that needed surgery and he wouldn't be able to wrestle for three months.

[FINisher]

Wow.. What a lackluster start to Wrestlemania. Three first matches have been *-*½ quality and MITB was the worst ever in the history of MITB's. :(

[Prophet]

Wow.. What a lackluster start to Wrestlemania. Three first matches have been *-*½ quality and MITB was the worst ever in the history of MITB's. :(

It was too much a clusterfuddle. Shock win, though. Definitely not one I would've pegged to walk away with the briefcase.

[angeldelayette]

Spoiler upcoming....

Jack Swagger? Really? That tells me that they're finally gonna have a money in the bank winner that doesn't win when he cashes in his briefcase.

[Tag01]

The PWTorch recap of Mania seems to think Orton is now positioned to be "the top heel on Raw." Surely after all this they're turning him face, right?

[MrCanada]

ordered Mania (usually dont) and its been "so so" so far. No real "HOLY ****!" moments in the MITB, I was suprised Shelton didnt do anything, and I was really expecting a SSP off a ladder to the outside to eliminate half the guys.

Tag match was TV-quality. Three way was okay, but really thought Dibiase or Rhodes needed the win more.

Now Sheamus vs. Triple H in the battle of boredom thus far. It sucks that Sheamus is basically a less talented version of Triple H, and it doesnt look like HHH is all that enthused to be making Sheamus look good.

[PeterHilton]

The PWTorch recap of Mania seems to think Orton is now positioned to be "the top heel on Raw." Surely after all this they're turning him face, right?

They're idiots. As long as the WWE doesn't mess with the way he works and turn him into a 'fan-friendly' character, Orton is the top face in the company after Cena.

[jesterx7769]

It wasn't a shock win to me, and its not a spoiler since its already happened, if people dont want to know who is winning the matches then dont read the WWE thread on the biggest night of the year.

Its not shocking to me b/c the only TV hes really had is doing the interview ringside about the match which is why it was one of the people I said I thought could win since there wasnt one dominant hott rising superstar

[PeterHilton]

Tag match was TV worth, but they needed a hotter opener.

I liked the Legact three way if only because of how insanely over Orton was

MITB was a letdown to be honest. Not horrible, but only a couple of memorable spots.

Trips/Sheamus was a slow starter, but ended strong. I though that the match could;ve really gotten Sheamus over if he'd kicked out of at least one Pedigree.

[brashleyholland]

Was it just me, or was the Hart/Vince 'bout' absolute garbage?

[Waghlon]

Well it wasn't exactly an in-ring classic...

[pauls07]

Was it just me, or was the Hart/Vince 'bout' absolute garbage?

were u expecting a classic??

[brashleyholland]

were u expecting a classic??

I was expecting a little more than that...

[pauls07]

I was expecting a little more than that...

true, it was a let down

[Waghlon]

Obligatory spanish announce team table spot.

[Slagaholic]

Jesus that Divas match may have been the most poorly executed finish ever.

I gotta love the Ref going by the rules and making the finish even more awkward.

[The Masked Orange]

Nothing like a botchy womens wrestlemania match to force you to order a SHIMMER DVD.

botchy botchy

[Waghlon]

Speaking of botchy, there's Batista!

[Slagaholic]

Is it just me or does this show feel less WrestleManiay than previous WrestleManias? I'm hoping HBK-Taker will make it worth it.

[Bigpapa42]

Is it just me or does this show feel less WrestleManiay than previous WrestleManias? I'm hoping HBK-Taker will make it worth it.

The first hour felt pretty epic. It kinda died off after that.

[Slagaholic]

The first hour felt pretty epic. It kinda died off after that.

Ah, I missed the first hour. I was making/eating spaghetti that was far more epic.

[PeterHilton]

It's sadly turned into a two match PPV. If these two main events pay off, it's worth it.

Really disappointed in the crowd. :(

[Slagaholic]

It's sadly turned into a two match PPV. If these two main events pay off, it's worth it.

Really disappointed in the crowd. :(

Seriously. They sound like they're just waiting for big spots, and until they get them they shall be sitting on their hands.

Don't sound like they're big Cena fans either.

This is exactly what I mean when I talk about too many two-counts killing crowd heat. Someone none of you have heard me say before...

[Slagaholic]

I give that match one big meeehhhh!

And way to show the replay of the top rope 5-Knuckle Shuffle from the one angle that shows how fake it looked.

That guy in the Lebron James jersey in the first row is such a huuuuuuuuge douche.

[Slagaholic]

They did what they were supposed to do, great job guys.

Didn't like the mimmicked Ric Flair WM exit match, but it definitely got over with the fans.

Jumping Tombstone for the first time in a long long time from the Undertaker to my knowledge.

[TheOmniWarrior]

HBK losing was an anti-mark-out moment

[jbergey_2005]

What a match is all I can say!

[TommyDreamerFan]

....Christ it was just as lackluster as Wrestlemania 25, only this time Taker/HBK didn't steal the show (even though it was the only match I remotely got into emotionally)

the MITB was blown spot after blown spot and one of the logical two winners didn't win.

[PeterHilton]

I liked both main events (HBK/Taker was tremendous) and Edge/Jericho and Rey/Punk were better than average.

Not an all time great WM but not a hot mess either.

[The Masked Orange]

Class Act the final match. Best Performance I've seen out of Taker in a while. The ending was the sort of thing I expected, they did it with Flair. With the loser basically going "I'm giving up and letting you retire me by hurting me quite badly with your finisher".

Glad the Streak didn't end. If it ended, then in fourty-fifty years when people look back on Taker they'll be told about the seventeen years in which it was captivating and one of the most important factors in people buying into many Wrestlemania's, but with a big mark on it.

Missed the first hour, bloody Daylight Savings Time. I got down just in time to see Swagger win, which I was surprised about (he was maybe third or fourth on my list of who I thought would win, but with Edge losing it makes sense.)

The Women's wrestling disappointed me. It was just a huge botchy vessel from which the WWE could legitimise Guerrero as a heel wrestler. Was Gail Kim this botchy in TNA? I don't remember her being this botchy.

Batista and Cena was a good match, if anything it out-performed Edge and Jericho, which didn't have enough speed and energy. Only problem with Cena and Batista is you spent the whole time thinking "S***, somebody is going to have their back broken. This is gonna be brutal...". The way Batista landed was really Over The Top. If Cena makes HHH land on his back when thrown why would the heavier Batista land all the way on his ass?

HHH Vs Sheamus wasn't all bad. I do think Sheamus should have won, because the announcers got it into their head's to tell everyone that if Sheamus loses they can't take him seriously as a Main Eventer.

Punk Vs Rey was very predictable. I spent half the time gasping as Rey did the moves he always does, the counters he does with such regularity and stood open-jawed in amazement as he managed to win. CM Punk may be one of the better wrestlers and heels around at the moment but if they keep on giving him these losses I don't think people will take him seriously.

A Good Wrestlemania on the whole, better than WM25, but WM24 for me was much better.

[Tag01]

I give it a meh. Taker HBK was what I expected, but still good. Nothing else really got my toes tapping. Punk-Rey was too short, Edge-Jericho was nice but really didn't stand out. Same with HBK-Sheamus. Chick match, opening tag match and MITB were collectively crap. Was hoping for Christian to win MITB, Edge to win the title to lead into Edge vs. Christian.

[TracyBrooksFan]

not a bad show loved the main event only matches i hated was Divas (cuz of hwo it went but Mickie looked great) and did NOT like Batista and Cena.

[Prophet]

I enjoyed it, just not so much as to justify the price tag hung on it. The tag match was weak, and felt more like filler than anything. Could've left this match off, and given other matches more time. The triple threat ... pointless? Yay, Randy won ... now what? Although I will always enjoy that serpentine way he drops for the RKO set up.

The MiTB was a clusterfuddle, as I said. Too many people. And it took Swagger ten minutes to pull the briefcase down, and 9 other guys were out? MVP was still suffering from a shot 5 minutes earlier? HHH vs. Sheamus served it's purpose, I think. It was slow to start, but by the end, a small part of me could see (hoped) Sheamus winning. I also think the whole "rookie mistake" costing him the match saved SoS from kicking out of a pedigree to legitimize himself, but that's probably just me.

Rey/Punk was all right, but without knowing the future, think it's a squandered ending. I was expecting a run in from the newest SES member to help win the match for Punk, causing another couple of months of the interesting dynamic they'd built up. The Hart vs. McMahon match was what I expected, but I got bored with it. Yeah, yeah, I'm all for vendetta matches, but 10 minutes of chairshots to a 60 someodd year old man? I could find an old folks home to watch that.

I liked Edge vs. Jericho. I felt the ebb and flow of it was good. Not a career highlight match, maybe, but still good. And the table to table spear was all right, but I figured it was setting up an "injured" Jericho (due to his DNA bragging), allowing for Swagger to cash in. The woman's match ... happened. So there's that.

I winced a few times watching Cena/Batista. Especially the AA, where he tried to lawn dart someone who doesn't exactly scream "great bumper" ... the only match I felt myself go totally internet wrestling community throughout too. (Case in point - what the hell were they talking about for 2 1/2 minutes before Batista tapped?) But I digress.

The final match was cool. It was a story. It was great to see them back and forth, to see `taker "injured" early, giving the illusion that it was really HBK's time. Could've done without the defiant moment, but again, may just be me. And the end was cool. Little weird to see `taker welling up, but being the two warhorses of the company, can't really blame the guy.

So all in all, it was all right. I definitely enjoyed parts of it. Could've lived without some others, though. And for the love of all things holy, will someone at the `E realize that big pink pantied Vicki in the ring is not a good idea ... EVER!

[xphen0m]

AWESOME SHOW! I really enjoyed watching it with friends, and we had a great time. Only match I didn't like the was the Divas tag. Very happy to see HBK/Taker get the main event spot it deserved.

[sabataged]

I thought it was far from awesome, probably not great but a good PPV. It was definitely worth the normal $35-40 tag, but $55? Probably not. I thought the 3 main events did their job. Jericho vs Edge was good, Batista vs Cena was as good as it possibly could of been. Neither are the ebst in ring talents, but both have size, charisma, and the ability to entertain. They did as best as they were going to in ring. I give them credit. The main event was phenomenal. I have been a wrestling fan for 20+ years and pretty much the SMARK in me guesses outcomes and whatever a good 75-80% of the time. Up until the very end, even though I knew Taker would win, up until the very end I still held a glimmer of hope that HBK might actually pull it off. But oh well, awesome match. HBK in my opinion is the greatest wrestling talent since I would say 93ish. He can put on a 4* match with about anyone, he can entertain on the mic, he was the total package. He will be the top of the 2011 Hall of Fame Class, where I see some sort of angle going down possibly with HHH. Then I see some sort of build up for 1 more match between HHH and HBK at WM 28 in 2012.

Overall I would say a 7 out 10. Not a bad way to spend a sunday night with the kids.

[Wrestling Century]

Very good show IMO. I personally think that this has been the best PPV so far in 2010 and better than the tail end of 2009. So anyways, some more of my personal thoughts:

1. Tag match was alright, but it went way too short for my tastes.

2. I kind of thought that there was really no point to the Orton vs Dibiase vs Rhodes match. Although I thought that it was kind of cool to see the offspring of legends duking it out at WM.

3. As for the MitB match, well, I don't really understand why some people on here didn't like it. It was a cluster[you know the rest], but an entertaining one at that. Although it didn't have all that many high spots and crazy bumps, I thought that it was better than WM22's MitB match.

4. I wasn't really anticipating HHH vs Sheamus, but it surpassed my expectations. It was actually pretty good.

5. Mysterio vs Punk was decent, but I thought that they should've given it more time.

6. As for Bret vs Vince, I personally hated this one. The only highlight in this match IMO was when The Hart Dynasty gave Vince "The Hart Attack" (is that what that's called?). I thought that it went on way too long.

7. Y2J vs Edge was a great match, although I thought that it was forgettable. The spear on top of the announce tables through the barricade was awesome.

8. The divas match, was personally a bathroom break for me.

9. Cena vs Batista, was decent, but didn't surpass my expectations. Also, I personally thought that it had way too many botches for a WM World Title match.

10. Taker vs HBK WM match #2 was epic, to say that least. I don't think that it surpassed Taker vs HBK WM match #1, but it definately matched it IMO.

All in all, I think that WM26 was way better than WM25

[Candyman]

What a tremendously average show. I'm not even going to bother bringing up the tag team title match, the triple threat, HHH-Sheamus, or the divas match - needless to say, they could've cut all those and made the show two hours and we'd all be better off for it. The MITB match was poor by MITB standards, not surprising given the little high flying talent involved. Jack Swagger needs a little more practice with that hook, apparently...my guess is this will be the first time somebody cashes in MITB and LOSES - it needs to happen eventually, and I don't see Swagger winning a World title anytime soon. I was really hoping he'd come out and challenge Cena and lose after the Batista match. Both world title matches were decent, but nothing we're going to be talking about five years from now. The rematch made the show - I don't think it surpassed the original, but it was a great match on its own. The post match was interesting, it's very rare that deadman Undertaker sort of breaks character like that. Even when Flair retired, they waited until the show was off the air to have Undertaker come out and salute him.

As for the Hart-McMahon match...I guess that was about what you should have realistically expected. There's both extremely old non-wrestlers at this point, so they're not going to give you something watchable...but I guess it needed to be done for the sake of closure. The thing with the Hart family double crossing Vince was a clever way to get them at ringside.

[Remianen]

After spending the past 2 days debating weather to buy this years Wrestlemania, because I haven't been following the product for months, I decided to for the simple fact it's bigger than the super bowl.

Ah, I musta missed that. When exactly did WM become bigger than the Super Bowl? I mean, it's a fact and all so I'm just curious if you could provide a link?

The Women's wrestling disappointed me. It was just a huge botchy vessel from which the WWE could legitimise Guerrero as a heel wrestler. Was Gail Kim this botchy in TNA? I don't remember her being this botchy.

Ever hear the saying 'high tide raises all boats"? Works in reverse too (low tide makes everyone look like s...poop). As you probably know, a good match requires its participants to all be on point. Takes two (or more) to completely botch an entire match. I've noticed Gail has looked like trash since returning to the 'E but if you look at her work in TNA and compare it to her more recent work, you'll see that it's mainly the people she's working with.

The moment I saw it confirmed that Vickie would be in the match, I knew it was going to be pure stinkage. Sometimes I hate being right. :( But I'd like to know who the genius was who thought it would be a good idea to have, uh, "Reubenesque" Vickie do a frog splash (and they called it a HOG splash, OMG!).

I give it a meh. Taker HBK was what I expected, but still good. Nothing else really got my toes tapping. Punk-Rey was too short, Edge-Jericho was nice but really didn't stand out. Same with HBK-Sheamus. Chick match, opening tag match and MITB were collectively crap. Was hoping for Christian to win MITB, Edge to win the title to lead into Edge vs. Christian.

I concur. What's funny is, I watched it at a friend's house (the man's such a huge WWE mark, his wife BANS WWE merch from the house....so the garage is like a shrine to VKM). Sure, $55 isn't much but I'd rather spend that on a bottle of wine or lapdances or something I'm sure to enjoy. He spent the whole broadcast yelling "What the [censored] was that [censored]?". Hilarious! Taker-HBK was on point but that basically left it as $55 for one match (to him). The bad thing about that is, he had to pass on the UFC 111, 112, 113 package to get Wrestlemania so he's feelin' really salty right about now.

Honestly, this felt more like a Summerslam quality PPV than Wrestlemania.

[Moe Hunter]

The Women's wrestling disappointed me. It was just a huge botchy vessel from which the WWE could legitimise Guerrero as a heel wrestler. Was Gail Kim this botchy in TNA? I don't remember her being this botchy.
She was a botch machine on Raw before she went to TNA. That said, I saw it as definitely being her opponent's inability to take the Pull-back Big Boot, but Gail having to throw that low kick twice was kind of embarassing.

Batista and Cena was a good match, if anything it out-performed Edge and Jericho, which didn't have enough speed and energy. Only problem with Cena and Batista is you spent the whole time thinking "S***, somebody is going to have their back broken. This is gonna be brutal...". The way Batista landed was really Over The Top. If Cena makes HHH land on his back when thrown why would the heavier Batista land all the way on his ass?
THIS. Someone challenged me on "why is Cena such a bad wrestler?" a week or so ago. Because he's sloppy as all hell. He was messy getting Batista up, and dangerous with how he threw him off. He whiffed his top rope 5KS, and generally just looked rather poor in the ring.

[Hyde Hill]

Very good show IMO. I personally think that this has been the best PPV so far in 2010 and better than the tail end of 2009. So anyways, some more of my personal thoughts:

1. Tag match was alright, but it went way too short for my tastes.

2. I kind of thought that there was really no point to the Orton vs Dibiase vs Rhodes match. Although I thought that it was kind of cool to see the offspring of legends duking it out at WM.

3. As for the MitB match, well, I don't really understand why some people on here didn't like it. It was a cluster[you know the rest], but an entertaining one at that. Although it didn't have all that many high spots and crazy bumps, I thought that it was better than WM22's MitB match.

4. I wasn't really anticipating HHH vs Sheamus, but it surpassed my expectations. It was actually pretty good.

5. Mysterio vs Punk was decent, but I thought that they should've given it more time.

6. As for Bret vs Vince, I personally hated this one. The only highlight in this match IMO was when The Hart Dynasty gave Vince "The Hart Attack" (is that what that's called?). I thought that it went on way too long.

7. Y2J vs Edge was a great match, although I thought that it was forgettable. The spear on top of the announce tables through the barricade was awesome.

8. The divas match, was personally a bathroom break for me.

9. Cena vs Batista, was decent, but didn't surpass my expectations. Also, I personally thought that it had way too many botches for a WM World Title match.

10. Taker vs HBK WM match #2 was epic, to say that least. I don't think that it surpassed Taker vs HBK WM match #1, but it definately matched it IMO.

All in all, I think that WM26 was way better than WM25

Are you finished?.... Well let me retort (Doc Holliday in Tombstone for those who don't know)

Have to concur with the general mehness of it all. And last years last ppv's where better Final Resolution and Turning Point as examples.

1. National Anthem: Crapptastic 1
2. Opening promo: Kinda flat meh 4.5
3. Tag Bout: This as opener and not MITB? too short, lacked flow. 5
4. three way: same old crap but better flow. 5.5
5. Female promo + Slim Jim: CRAAAP 1.5 ( +0.5 for the joke and cameos)
6. MITB: underwhelming and I like spotfests 6.5
7. Extreme rules promos: why waste time on this? 3
8. Hall of fame recapping: Took too long and is Gorgeous George or his wife inducted? 5
9. Sheamus vs Trips: same old crap with more time and some nice moves by Sheamus 5.75
10. Slim Jim commercial: A full on commercial at WM??? 1
11. Punk vs Rey: finally something good but too short 7
12. Bret vs Vince: took way too long making you almost sympathize for VKM and fell flat. Other matches needed this time 4
13. Atlanta promo: Again why waste time especially for something a year away? 2
14. Edge vs Jericho : Pretty good second best of the night but not super special, Striker ruined the start with his bs. 7.25
15. Divas: No place this high up the card and botchamania 1
16. Cena vs Batista: Could have been worse 6.25
17. Michales vs Taker: Not as good as last year as expected, still good 8
18. Michaels farewell: Pretty well done but he will be back 7.5

So overall meh. Flat crowd as well. Didn't have that true mania feel for me somehow even 25 felt more wresltemania isch. Hope next year will be better.

Favorite fan signs: HHH fears Divorce, I Hope a Canadian wins ( Edge vs Jericho), McMahon: The richest there is, the most evil there was and the biggest loser there will be.

And don't put this on me liking TNA as I am not the only one that feels like this and I followed the entire build.

Also Wrestling Century read your review and then think again if it was an awesome show? See how many decent and bad you had in there?

[Hyde Hill]

BTW anyone noticed the bleeding of the Undertaker's right arm? I think it happened because of a botch with the hells gate or somewhere around that time. Real glad the EMT's didn't rush in for it or would have ruined it all.

[Genadi]

Had to put this into TEW terms with some RA notes included :p




1. National Anthem: D- (That Fantasmo girl is over enough with the general public and I'd guess would have decent ent. skills lol)
2. Opening promo: C
3. Miz & Big Show vs R-Truth & Morrison: C-
4. Orton vs DiBiase vs Rhodes: C+
5. Female promo + Slim Jim: C-
6. MITB: C+ (This match suffered due to cluster%#$@ syndrome) (Jack Swagger gained overness from this bout :p)
7. Hall of fame recapping: C
8. Sheamus vs HHH: B-
9. Slim Jim commercial: C-
10. Punk vs Rey: B (This match lifted the crowd) (This match suffered from being too short)
11. Bret vs Vince: C- (This match brought the crowds mood down) (This match suffered from being too long)
12. Edge vs Jericho : B (This match lifted the crowd)
14. Divas: D- (This match brought the crowds mood down)
15. Cena vs Batista Vignette: B+ (This segment lifted the crowds mood)
16. Cena vs Batista: B-
17. Michaels vs Taker Vignette: B+
18. Michales vs Taker: B+
19. Michaels farewell: B+

So overall: B

This event can be considered a success :p

[Hyde Hill]

Had to put this into TEW terms with some RA notes included :p



This event can be considered a success :p

Not for wrestlemania it can't and WWE's popularity. :D And its B- in the current TEW even with your overrating of some parts.;)

[RingofHonorGuard]

This weekend as a whole was a fairly big letdown as far as ppv's go. After the UFC's deduction of my bank account, I felt a little stiffed... But after Wrestlemania, wow... It's like I got held at gunpoint. I can't remember a Wrestlemania this bad since WM11.

Jack Swagger winning the MiTB seemed underwhelming, especially how he's been booked in the past half-year. They couldn't decide if they wanted to make him the next Kurt Angle/Brock Lesnar or if he was a jobber. I guess they've chosen the "Next Big Thing" approach finally, but I hope it's not too late for anyone to take him serious.

All of the title matches pretty much sucked, especially Cena and Batista. The only people who could have really enjoyed this match are various unattractive 30-40 something moms and their children. Anyone with any understanding of proper flow and wrestling would be taking a big crap all over this match. This match was barely above a RAW calibur match, aside from the top rope antics... Nothing really amazing, aside from the fact that with all the failed moves one of them isn't injured, especially Hurtista.

I am kinda glad that Jericho retained, and maybe we can see a real classic between Edge and Jericho at the next PPV.

The Punk/Mysterio match was waaaay too rushed. For a guy who was constantly putting on exciting 30-60 minute matches on the independents they sure don't want to let Punk do what brought him to the dance.

Bret Hart proved he has no business in the ring outside of managing the Hart Dynasty(which needs to happen, Bret Hart was an -awesome- heel at the end of his WWF run).

WWE really dropped the ball on the Undertaker/HBK II... Hasn't anyone at WWE taken notice of how popular "rubber matches" are? Forget the streak, it's nice and all... But Taker's legacy is already carved out, it wouldn't have hurt him too bad to lose, imo... And it would have given Shawn Michaels so much momentum that they would have absolutely burned buildings down on his "I'm going for the title one last time" campaign. HBK vs. Taker III at next year's Wrestlemania would have been epic... missed opportunity in my opinion.

[Franchise22]

overall i enjoyed the show. loved taker/hbk. jumping tombstone was sick.

Bournes splash was un expected from where he was during mitb.

Although he didnt win from it, i did call jerichos reversal of the spear with codebreaker. (also predicted his win, and cenas) :)

Swagger inability to pull the brieftcase off the hook was pretty funny.

punk and rey was good, loved cm punks gi joe themed tights.

main gripe:
I feel the annoucing took a bit away from the event for me. Needed JR, at least on main event.... i do NOT like cole and striker as a unit. King barely jumped in it seemed. Cole is just terrible in general. During hbk/taker he states "no one has ever reversed hells gate like that...i think.." sad he forgot a few short years ago Angle BEAT taker at no way out with that same reversal of hells gate.....
On top of that i felt Cole was very repetitive in his work, its like he couldnt think of anything creative he just repeated things over and over.. they also botched the call on Christians reverse DDT off the ladders, they thought it was a twist of fate from hardy. they seemed perplexed when christian was up and fresh climbing ladder after that... As you can tell by this rant, i felt the annouce team hurt the show.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeps Cole was terrible Lawler was Lawler and pretty quiet and Striker was hit and miss. Hated the whole trained and worked together story on Edge and Jericho. So they are from Canada so they must have come up together??? Plus confusing Jericho with Christian. And then making up for it with the different career path statement which actually discounts what you said before. Either believe the lie or apologize for a mistake don't contradict yourself. They really brought the show down. Too bad Striker doesn't have chemistry with Cole either to compensate for his crappiness. Only one so far that could work with Cole was JBL imho.

[Franchise22]

WWE really dropped the ball on the Undertaker/HBK II... Hasn't anyone at WWE taken notice of how popular "rubber matches" are? Forget the streak, it's nice and all... But Taker's legacy is already carved out, it wouldn't have hurt him too bad to lose, imo... And it would have given Shawn Michaels so much momentum that they would have absolutely burned buildings down on his "I'm going for the title one last time" campaign. HBK vs. Taker III at next year's Wrestlemania would have been epic... missed opportunity in my opinion.

i can not DISAGREE more with you here. respectfully of course.:)

Taker IS the streak. it will go down in WWE history as one of their big spectacles and stories. it is of legendary status. It just retired HBK. nuff said.

taker is Joe Montana of wrestling. Very good career, but his legacy is defined by his performance on the biggest stage and being undefeated, much like montana and the super bowl :)

[lazorbeak]

Haven't seen the show yet, from what I've read it seems like a mostly one match PPV, which is a shame. Mysterio and HHH going over isn't surprising, but it is poor decision-making for WWE, who continue to be absolutely terrified of accidentally pushing somebody towards the top of the card. Seriously Mysterio is a great talent and can work a great match but he will never be a champion again and is on the downswing of his career- what does anyone lose by him putting over Punk, a former champion who can and should be champion again?

And for all of the talk that Triple H has changed his evil ways and now wants to put over talent, why is he going over Sheamus, a guy that has been booked over Randy Orton and John Cena? Conventional wisdom says Sheamus will get a win back at Extreme Rules or whatever, but on a show with a smaller audience and a match of less importance. HBK used to pull the same stunt, winning on PPV and then losing on TV where it wouldn't hurt him as much. Why does HHH need that sort of protection? Are people going to not like him if he isn't booked to have a 9.5 durability in the next Smackdown game?

Seriously, how long can WWE milk its own nostalgia for the Attitude era? Bret Hart and HBK in marquee matches, Triple H still being booked like a main eventer? The only guy that isn't an established name that went over was Swagger, and people are already saying how he'll be the first guy not to successfully cash-in because he's not "ready" even though he can go in the ring and was ECW champion only a year ago.

Also Hyde, as far as the divas match having no place up the card, there's this thing called peaks and valleys in TEW that you may want to look into. See, it's a "bathroom-break" match separating the #3 match (Jericho and Edge) from the main events. It's exactly where a match like that goes.

[Hyde Hill]

Lol Lazor I know about the peaks and valleys etc but you put the worst of those valleys after the first peak not as the third to last.

[ampulator]

On the Divas match, though, they need a better bathroom break match. It could be sufficiently said that match "lowered the crowd's mood".

[lazorbeak]

Lol Lazor I know about the peaks and valleys etc but you put the worst of those valleys after the first peak not as the third to last.


Apparently you don't because you complained about it. It was exactly where it needed to be, regardless of quality. Matches like it give the crowd a break and make Cena/Batista seem like a bigger deal. Complaining about it is just nitpicky negative whining.

[RingofHonorGuard]

i can not DISAGREE more with you here. respectfully of course.:)

Taker IS the streak. it will go down in WWE history as one of their big spectacles and stories. it is of legendary status. It just retired HBK. nuff said.

taker is Joe Montana of wrestling. Very good career, but his legacy is defined by his performance on the biggest stage and being undefeated, much like montana and the super bowl :)

Yeah, I get that... And part of me -is- glad that Taker won... But I'm saying in terms of business, WWE really could have used a big twist with HBK winning. The biggest downside to pro wrestling these days is the predictability of it. Everyone pretty much expected/knew Undertaker was going to keep the streak, so watching the match was kind of meh... The lack of surprise is driving away the older wrestling fans... Who wants to tune in week in and week out when nothing interesting is happening? Instead of mixing it up and trying to build their product, they're taking the easy way out and regressing back to the mid 90s for a bit of kiddie time. It won't be long until we start seeing Evan Bourne dressed in a chicken outfit.

[Candyman]

1. National Anthem: Crapptastic 1
2. Opening promo: Kinda flat meh 4.5
3. Tag Bout: This as opener and not MITB? too short, lacked flow. 5
4. three way: same old crap but better flow. 5.5
5. Female promo + Slim Jim: CRAAAP 1.5 ( +0.5 for the joke and cameos)
6. MITB: underwhelming and I like spotfests 6.5
7. Extreme rules promos: why waste time on this? 3
8. Hall of fame recapping: Took too long and is Gorgeous George or his wife inducted? 5
9. Sheamus vs Trips: same old crap with more time and some nice moves by Sheamus 5.75
10. Slim Jim commercial: A full on commercial at WM??? 1
11. Punk vs Rey: finally something good but too short 7
12. Bret vs Vince: took way too long making you almost sympathize for VKM and fell flat. Other matches needed this time 4
13. Atlanta promo: Again why waste time especially for something a year away? 2
14. Edge vs Jericho : Pretty good second best of the night but not super special, Striker ruined the start with his bs. 7.25
15. Divas: No place this high up the card and botchamania 1
16. Cena vs Batista: Could have been worse 6.25
17. Michales vs Taker: Not as good as last year as expected, still good 8
18. Michaels farewell: Pretty well done but he will be back 7.5

So overall meh. Flat crowd as well. Didn't have that true mania feel for me somehow even 25 felt more wresltemania isch. Hope next year will be better.

Favorite fan signs: HHH fears Divorce, I Hope a Canadian wins ( Edge vs Jericho), McMahon: The richest there is, the most evil there was and the biggest loser there will be.


That wasn't the National Anthem, it was America the Beautiful...they've done this before and I have no effing idea why. SING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM YOU MORONS! And find a better singer than one of the bad American Idol winners, for Christ's sake. Youtube Carrie Underwood singing the Star Spangled Banner and tell me that wouldn't be a better opening. I digress...

Just a quick FYI, Gorgeous George has been dead for almost 50 years, so...yeah, can't really have him there. Same reason the Hart family was there in place of Stu Hart.

Take a point or two off MITB, it wasn't that good, and add it to...actually, don't add it to anything. Take a point off the tag bout and three way while you're at it.

Agree with you about the crowd. I understand what they're trying to do by taking it to places like Phoenix and Orlando, but I wouldn't mind if they stuck to New York, Philly, Detroit, Chicago, etc...places you know you'll get a hot crowd. Atlanta should be interesting - especially if the rumored WCW theme for the Hall of Fames happens.

[Candyman]

Yeah, I get that... And part of me -is- glad that Taker won... But I'm saying in terms of business, WWE really could have used a big twist with HBK winning. The biggest downside to pro wrestling these days is the predictability of it. Everyone pretty much expected/knew Undertaker was going to keep the streak, so watching the match was kind of meh... The lack of surprise is driving away the older wrestling fans... Who wants to tune in week in and week out when nothing interesting is happening? Instead of mixing it up and trying to build their product, they're taking the easy way out and regressing back to the mid 90s for a bit of kiddie time. It won't be long until we start seeing Evan Bourne dressed in a chicken outfit.

I think the whole predictability thing is overblown...yeah, the internet wrestling community knows everything that's going to happen, but this is the minority. And the WWE ignores that minority completely. For the average fan, the guy that doesn't read the dirt sheets or go to message board, I think there's still plenty of surprises.

But I have to disagree with you completely on the Undertaker match...I don't think it would be good business to have HBK win. Let's assume HBK is willing to commit to another match next year, and they have an amazing rubber match at Wrestlemania 27...then what? Who does Undertaker fight at Wrestlemania 28? Does anymore care? I don't. Once Undertaker's undefeated streak ends, you can't bring it back. That draw is gone forever. Having him lose is kind of like saying the WWE title can't be defended at Wrestlemania anymore. That's how big his streak is. In terms of business, they need to make that last as long as possible - meaning IF he ever loses, it damn well better be in his last Wrestlemania match.

If you wanted to take the whole rubber match approach, they could've had them fight at SummerSlam and HBK take the win to prove he can beat him, then set up the third at this Wrestlemania...but they both took off too much time for that to happen.

[justtxyank]

Wow. I hated it. All of it.

The crowd was horrible and it sucked the life out of the matches.

I'm not going to talk about every match, but let me talk about 2 in particular:

1) Bret vs Vince. So poorly put together. All the crap with the Hart family...really? Why would that even make sense? Diana Hart, Bruce Hart, etc. are going to sell out Bret? For what? I mean if it had just been 2.0 that was brought down I could see it, but it is ridiculous logic to think Vince would be dumb enough to hire Bruce Hart as a referee and the entire Hart family as lumberjacks and then pay them up front. Just plain dumb.

As for the match itself...blah. I actually didn't think Bret looked all that bad, but it was just awkward watching him beat up Vince without Vince ever getting back to his feet. It actually made me feel...sorry?...for Vince I guess. Just bad all around. The crowd basically humming to themselves until Bret would go for the sharpshooter made it 10x worse.

2) Taker vs HBK. Not a good match. Not even memorable really. Taker is spent. Very disappointed that this match was so lame feeling. There were a few good spots but all in all it did not feel epic.

On another note, the WWE camera work was unusually bad last night. Woof. And the announcers were god awful. Jim Ross meant so much to the credibility of the E.

[Hyde Hill]

Apparently you don't because you complained about it. It was exactly where it needed to be, regardless of quality. Matches like it give the crowd a break and make Cena/Batista seem like a bigger deal. Complaining about it is just nitpicky negative whining.

Look sure you need to give them a break but give them the tag title match or the three way not the freaking diva cluster. Also don't be so damn serious.lolz

[Hyde Hill]

That wasn't the National Anthem, it was America the Beautiful...they've done this before and I have no effing idea why. SING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM YOU MORONS! And find a better singer than one of the bad American Idol winners, for Christ's sake. Youtube Carrie Underwood singing the Star Spangled Banner and tell me that wouldn't be a better opening. I digress...

Just a quick FYI, Gorgeous George has been dead for almost 50 years, so...yeah, can't really have him there. Same reason the Hart family was there in place of Stu Hart.

Take a point or two off MITB, it wasn't that good, and add it to...actually, don't add it to anything. Take a point off the tag bout and three way while you're at it.

Agree with you about the crowd. I understand what they're trying to do by taking it to places like Phoenix and Orlando, but I wouldn't mind if they stuck to New York, Philly, Detroit, Chicago, etc...places you know you'll get a hot crowd. Atlanta should be interesting - especially if the rumored WCW theme for the Hall of Fames happens.

Yeah sorry about that had forgotten the name of the song.

On George know he was dead but the way it was announced it was like she got in. With the harts it was representing with George it was she is in the hall.

[Self]

I concur with the average reviews. Wasn't blown away. Bit bored by the time Edge/Jericho started. Random thoughts...

- I didn't like Miz' ring jacket. Too similar to Edge, Heel Matt Hardy, and a bunch of other guys who've slipped my mind. It's also a bit too 'bad ass' for The Miz, who's more of a douchey character. Swagger's ring jacket looked incredibly cheap.
- Raven says that the two most important things for a babyface are Sympathy and Fire. We had trouble with these tonight. Until they worked the ankle, Edge had no sympathy. He's got fire, but he's an unsympathetic character. On the other end of the scale, Randy Orton had little fire. Garvin Stomps. Awkward clotheslines. Being double-teamed gave him sympathy, but the fire was lacking.
- I liked the Diva match in some respects. I love Layla & Michelle McCool as a team, and their friendship with Vickie warms my heart. The finish was, as said, botchtacula (stop posing girls) but I really loved Vickie's frog splash. Despite the landing, seeing her up there, doing the Eddie thing, I loved it.
- Less is more, Bret. Less is more. One volley of punches. One roll outside. One Hart Dynasty spot. 5-moves-of-Doom. One chair shot. Sharpshooter. Less is more. I quite liked the family thing, but the execution could have been better.
- Not my sentiment, but it's true; Shawn is a great bumper, but has no offense. I have been against Shawn taking the streak since last year, so I was cheering 'Taker the whole time (rare for me, not a fan) Good stuff. Great finish.
- To me, there wasn't enough FLASH on this show. They had plenty of pyro, but they've had pyro for decades. What I liked last year were the grand entrances. Triple H shattering the glass. Shawn's angelic thing. The Cena clones. It made it special. I wish this Wrestlemania had more of this type of thing. Cena, Trips & 'Taker had little bits, but for the most part it was run-of-the-mill.

That wasn't the National Anthem, it was America the Beautiful...they've done this before and I have no effing idea why. SING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM YOU MORONS! And find a better singer than one of the bad American Idol winners, for Christ's sake. Youtube Carrie Underwood singing the Star Spangled Banner and tell me that wouldn't be a better opening. I digress...

Isn't it "World" Wrestling Federation? It's cool to sing the US National anthem at house shows in the states, but it's a bit obnoxious at an event you're promoting as a worldwide experience. America the Beautiful isn't much better, but... It's slightly better to me. Not sure why.

[lazorbeak]

Look sure you need to give them a break but give them the tag title match or the three way not the freaking diva cluster. Also don't be so damn serious.lolz

I'm the one being too serious? I'm not the one whining about the card position of a completely meaningless match. You're being a negative whiny smark, and since in the TNA thread you're constantly saying how terrible it is that everyone in the IWC is such a negative whiny smark, I thought maybe you'd like to be told when your comedically obvious bias was showing. It's a totally stupid smark complaint for a match that was exactly where it needed to be. I mean it'd be nice if it wasn't garbage, but it's a garbage match separating the main event from the other big matches. Really only the tag match is another option and since it has little or no effect on things, I really don't see the problem.

[Hyde Hill]

Meh difference of opinion. I think it killed the crowd instead of cooling it off and it being Wrestlemania you can actually have a couple of good matches after one another at the end.

[MrOnu]

Seems to me the event was a hit or a miss with fans. I personnaly didn't watch it nor do I plan to (card looked not very interesting to me and very predictable on top of that), so I can't comment on the actual entertainement value of the show. Results are pretty much what I expected, which is a shame in some regards as I like it when they have a big build up for Wrestlemania and they end big rivalries that night. Did they settle anything last night ? Not really, they only put an end to a rivalry between the owner and a retired wrestler and between one-soon-to-retired guy and an already semi-active wrestler; every other story will simply go on, pretty much a run-of-the-mill event like Self said.

As much as I like Jack Swagger and think he has all the tools to be a major player down the road, his MITB victory was unexpected. He barely had a spot on RAW lately !

[MattitudeV2]

On a side note he is how the WWE Main Event looks now.
Cena
Batista
Edge
Jericho
HHH
Taker
Orton
and now......
Swagger!!!

[jesterx7769]

He barely had a spot on RAW lately !

That's why he was one of the ones I said would win, he hasn't done much then they interview him during Kofi's match, we all knew Christian wouldn't win despite most picking him b/c WWE has not put him in the Main Event scene before and probably won't. Everyone is surprised but seriously else was a legit threat? No one stood head and shoulders above the others.

Do I see Swagger winning the title? No, I think one of two things will happen.

- He challenges Cena after a match, Cena being Mr. WWE beats him weak and all showing how great he is.

- Mr. Anderson situation where Swagger loses the MITB to someone after getting ****y (possibly Orton now that the legacy feud may be done?)

[crownsy]

I was expecting a little more than that...

you and i have different expectations for an elderly gentleman and a guy who had a major stroke and is himself no spring chicken then.

It was what it was. I thought it was fine.

PPV overall was very good, highlights were punk v rey and shameus vs trips from the under card.

All three M/E's were great, like jericho retaining (would have been to much belt swapping to give both edge and cena wins over one month champs

and cena v batista and HBK v Taker were awesome, like the finsh of both matches as well.

Great PPV, good end to the year for WWE.

[Wrestling Century]

Very good show IMO. I personally think that this has been the best PPV so far in 2010 and better than the tail end of 2009.

All in all, I think that WM26 was way better than WM25


Also Wrestling Century read your review and then think again if it was an awesome show? See how many decent and bad you had in there?

I didn't say that it was an awesome show. I didn't think that it felt like WM, but it was still a very good show compared to how I liked some of the other WWE PPVs.

[crownsy]

....Christ it was just as lackluster as Wrestlemania 25, only this time Taker/HBK didn't steal the show (even though it was the only match I remotely got into emotionally)

the MITB was blown spot after blown spot and one of the logical two winners didn't win.

yet if Christan had won, people would cry that it was terrible because it was so predictable.

The WWE and TNA can't win with the Smart marks, no matter what they do. Swagger will most likely be the first guy to cash in the MITB and lose, that's been overdue to happen storywise for about two years.

Christan will probably win the MITB PPV shot, and get to actually use it. Swagger is going to cash in like an idiot and lose to cena.

WWE is always predictable, to a point on PPV's. and that's not always a bad thing, despite what some people think is good storytelling.

See our TNA thread discussion, TNA will be much, much better off once they start telling good stories, rather than booking the swerve for the sake of the swerve and to try to appease the IWC (who hates on them anyway, for of course, not telling a story well enough).

I'm sure the IWC will immediately label them as "predictable crap" too once they start doing what the crowd wants too though.

Good, but not great WM. Much, much better than some of the posts in this thread give it credit for. Some times the expectations of the IWC amuse the hell out of me. If wrestling was half as epic as they claim every match should be, it would be the #1 pass time in the world :D

[PeterHilton]

Isn't it "World" Wrestling Federation? It's cool to sing the US National anthem at house shows in the states, but it's a bit obnoxious at an event you're promoting as a worldwide experience. America the Beautiful isn't much better, but... It's slightly better to me. Not sure why.

That's ridiculous. It's tradition at sporting events to play the national anthem. The Super Bowl and World Series are telecast world wide; they both start with the national anthem.

If the venue is in the states it's not 'obnoxious' it's what makes sense in terms of the other major 'sports' events in this country.

[PeterHilton]

I concur. What's funny is, I watched it at a friend's house (the man's such a huge WWE mark, his wife BANS WWE merch from the house....so the garage is like a shrine to VKM). Sure, $55 isn't much but I'd rather spend that on a bottle of wine or lapdances or something I'm sure to enjoy. He spent the whole broadcast yelling "What the [censored] was that [censored]?". Hilarious! Taker-HBK was on point but that basically left it as $55 for one match (to him). The bad thing about that is, he had to pass on the UFC 111, 112, 113 package to get Wrestlemania so he's feelin' really salty right about now.


I'm willing to deal with negative hyperbole from other people but c'mon Remi...how many lapdances are you REALLY getting for $55? One? One and a half? lol ;)

Good, but not great WM. Much, much better than some of the posts in this thread give it credit for. Some times the expectations of the IWC amuse the hell out of me. If wrestling was half as epic as they claim every match should be, it would be the #1 pass time in the world :D

I'm with crownsy. My only niggling complaints would be that giving all that time to HBKs farewell could've been better spent giving a few more minutes here and there to Rey/Punk, the tag title match, and HHH/SHeamus.

But truthfully, that was probably one of those deals where everyone on the card was given the heads up to not go long to make sure the main event had plenty of time. So with everyone being careful, you end up with too much time at the end. Meh.

Also, am i the only one who thinks that Bret going too long with his beatdown on Vince could set up for a heel run? I mean, towards the end he was not the guy I was rooting for in that match. Heel Bret as a GM on Raw?

[FlameSnoopy]

2) Taker vs HBK. Not a good match. Not even memorable really. Taker is spent. Very disappointed that this match was so lame feeling. There were a few good spots but all in all it did not feel epic.

Wow man.. You gotta be kidding me. That might have just been (and probably is) the best match I have seen in my life. No, not your Kobashi vs. Misawa, not your Japanese Wrestler #1 vs. Japanese Wrestler #2 matches, but Taker vs. HBK. Epic. Just. Epic.

[Self]

That's ridiculous. It's tradition at sporting events to play the national anthem. The Super Bowl and World Series are telecast world wide; they both start with the national anthem.

If the venue is in the states it's not 'obnoxious' it's what makes sense in terms of the other major 'sports' events in this country.

Super Bowl is for American Football. The World Series is for Baseball (right?). Two sports very few outside of the US cares about. Their entire identities are rooted in Americana, therefore the American national anthem is very appropriate. WWE on the other hand... I dunno, maybe they're going for the same American-heavy vibe, but I figured they were trying to project a more global image.

Then again, World Cup games all begin with the national anthems, adding to the fervour of National Pride... It's a shame we can't get anthems for all of the guys. Sheamus. McIntyre. The Canadians.

I will however agree that my reaction on here went a little overboard. Watching it, it didn't bother me that much. I thought "Huh, that's kinda weird." and went on making my bacon roll. Typing magnifies my misgivings.

[UkWrestleFan]

Maybe they won't have Swagger cash it for a while. He's got a whole year. Since MITB started, I've wanted somebody to hang onto the case for a while before cashing in. Maybe that'll be Swagger.

Or, maybe somebody will challenge Swagger for the case. He thinks he's so fantastic and can beat anybody but he loses.

[The Masked Orange]

I want Swagger to win the World Title. The title's aren't as prestigous as they used to be and many people have a problem witht that. I think it's actually really good business sense, with the 2 brands and using it as a device to build stars as they hold it rather than when they win it.

In Giant Redwood's profile it talks about how USPW made less money while he was chmpion. In the WWE they have nearly eliminated that problem.

[FlameSnoopy]

Maybe they won't have Swagger cash it for a while. He's got a whole year. Since MITB started, I've wanted somebody to hang onto the case for a while before cashing in. Maybe that'll be Swagger.

Or, maybe somebody will challenge Swagger for the case. He thinks he's so fantastic and can beat anybody but he loses.

Edge?

[UkWrestleFan]

Edge?

Ah yeah, how could I forget?

[PeterHilton]

Super Bowl is for American Football. The World Series is for Baseball (right?). Two sports very few outside of the US cares about. Their entire identities are rooted in Americana, therefore the American national anthem is very appropriate. WWE on the other hand... I dunno, maybe they're going for the same American-heavy vibe, but I figured they were trying to project a more global image.



Why would you figure that? Not being xenophobic or sarcastic, but I really don't get where you'd see that in the WWE product...heavy on American character archetypes, American pop culture references, based in America, most of their revenue comes from American venues and American PPVs

It's nice as a company to broaden your appeal so you can gain some market share and be able to broadcast internationally (which is why the World Series and Super Bowl are broadcast worldwide) but realistically, the E makes most of its money by appealing to it's fans in the states.

Any of their global appeal is icing on the cake so to speak.

[Remianen]

I'm willing to deal with negative hyperbole from other people but c'mon Remi...how many lapdances are you REALLY getting for $55? One? One and a half? lol ;)

Two, with $5 left over for a Tom Collins unusually high in the H20 department. :p

[PeterHilton]

Two, with $5 left over for a Tom Collins unusually high in the H20 department. :p

Holy economics!

A lapdance in CA is $40 a song..and we can't have alcohol if the club is fully nude.

[justtxyank]

Wow man.. You gotta be kidding me. That might have just been (and probably is) the best match I have seen in my life. No, not your Kobashi vs. Misawa, not your Japanese Wrestler #1 vs. Japanese Wrestler #2 matches, but Taker vs. HBK. Epic. Just. Epic.


Are you serious? You thought last night's version was the best match you've ever seen? I'm stunned.

[PeterHilton]

Wow man.. You gotta be kidding me. That might have just been (and probably is) the best match I have seen in my life. No, not your Kobashi vs. Misawa, not your Japanese Wrestler #1 vs. Japanese Wrestler #2 matches, but Taker vs. HBK. Epic. Just. Epic.

Y'know it wasn't the best match I've ever seen, but I know it definitely was not as bad as you described..

2) Taker vs HBK. Not a good match. Not even memorable really. Taker is spent. Very disappointed that this match was so lame feeling. There were a few good spots but all in all it did not feel epic.

Not a good match? I mean..not even a 'good' match?

To each their own, but in a spectrum my opinion is closer to Snoop's than yours.

Again..not the best ever but definitely not osmething i'd describe as 'not good' or 'not memorable.'

[Fleisch]

I'm going to say... average, and considering this should be the biggest Show of the year, it should be a hell of alot more than average. I've seen lesser PPV's that were better than this.

Saving grace: Edge vs. Jericho. However by this point i was really losing the will to live!

Not going to say anything more other than... HBK vs Undertaker 1 (last year)- Legendary
HBK vs Undertaker 2 (this year)- Diabolical in comparison and a real let down.

My opinions.

[justtxyank]

Y'know it wasn't the best match I've ever seen, but I know it definitely was not as bad as you described..

Not a good match? I mean..not even a 'good' match?

To each their own, but in a spectrum my opinion is closer to Snoop's than yours.

Again..not the best ever but definitely not osmething i'd describe as 'not good' or 'not memorable.'

I just didn't think it was anything special at all. I say that as a huge HBK fan, someone who has called him the greatest ever and will probably not order another ppv of the E's now that he is gone. (if!) I just didn't get anything out of it.

[brashleyholland]

you and i have different expectations for an elderly gentleman and a guy who had a major stroke and is himself no spring chicken then.

No, we probably have very similar expectations of what they can do in the ring - not a whole lot.

My expectations were regarding the 'segment' rather than the match. Hart getting his revenge on Vince should have been an epic moment, instead it was an overly long, awkward mess.

The Hart lumberjacks thing was stupid. Out of the blue, made no sense at all. Brett clearly is in no condition to perform, which is fine - it's not his fault. But then why have him perform at all? Why not have Brett and Vince as managers for Cena and Batista? You can do the 'Brett beats down Vince and puts him in the Sharpshooter' spot during the match when the principles are laid out or otherwise occupied. It would have gotten the same, if not more pop and would have added something to Cena/Batista.

Even as a stand-alone match, they could have done so much better. Brett roughs Vince up, throws him to the lumberjacks, gets him back, hits him with the chair, puts him in the Sharpshooter. All done in a couple of minutes.

Brett kinda looked like a bad guys at some points during that needlessly long beatdown...

[FlameSnoopy]

I'm going to say... average, and considering this should be the biggest Show of the year, it should be a hell of alot more than average. I've seen lesser PPV's that were better than this.

Saving grace: Edge vs. Jericho. However by this point i was really losing the will to live!

Not going to say anything more other than... HBK vs Undertaker 1 (last year)- Legendary
HBK vs Undertaker 2 (this year)- Diabolical in comparison and a real let down.

My opinions.

:rolleyes:

HBK vs. Taker last year wasn't nearly as good as this years in my honest opinion. When I actually thought HBK was going to win the thing (unlike last year) that is HUGE. And it just had the epicness and intensity right from the beginning.

[UkWrestleFan]

Why shouldn't they have had Hart destroy Vince for 10+ minutes. He's meant to hate his guts. He's wanted revenge for 12 years and on the night he gets it he's expected to finish him off in a few minutes? No way.

[Wrestling Century]

Mr.UkWrestleFan, I didn't like it because I actually started feeling sympathy for Vince in that match. I am assuming that the crowd felt the same way because after a few minutes they went dead.

[Fleisch]

:rolleyes:

HBK vs. Taker last year wasn't nearly as good as this years in my honest opinion. When I actually thought HBK was going to win the thing (unlike last year) that is HUGE. And it just had the epicness and intensity right from the beginning.

Your opinion. Dunno why you needed the smiley... maybe you thought it gave your reply credibility.

[PeterHilton]

Why shouldn't they have had Hart destroy Vince for 10+ minutes. He's meant to hate his guts. He's wanted revenge for 12 years and on the night he gets it he's expected to finish him off in a few minutes? No way.

Because as a storytelling device, you are supposed to ROOT FOR THE GOOD GUY

And in that match, the good guy had an unfair numbers advantage, took no punishment (not his fault, i know, but still there's a reaosn why the 'face in peril' is such a standard part of wrestling), used a series of weapons, and then twice refused to finish Vince off when he had the chance.

Take away the storyline, and that is a standard issue bad guy beatdown.

And the people who I was watching with, who didn't really understand the screwjob, all sympathized with Vince. Especially because the way the Harts came off - like a bunch of bloodthirsty jackals

It was poorly booked.

[FlameSnoopy]

Are you serious? You thought last night's version was the best match you've ever seen? I'm stunned.

Yes I did. I haven't seen anything or any match reach a five star minus before, now came a full five star.

And Fleisch, of course it's my opinion. How could I, say, provide facts about this? I didn't even have to write "my opinion", because of course it's my opinion. If you people want to provide me with points what made last years better than this years, then go ahead.

[UkWrestleFan]

Because as a storytelling device, you are supposed to ROOT FOR THE GOOD GUY

And in that match, the good guy had an unfair numbers advantage, took no punishment (not his fault, i know, but still there's a reaosn why the 'face in peril' is such a standard part of wrestling), used a series of weapons, and then twice refused to finish Vince off when he had the chance.

Take away the storyline, and that is a standard issue bad guy beatdown.

And the people who I was watching with, who didn't really understand the screwjob, all sympathized with Vince. Especially because the way the Harts came off - like a bunch of bloodthirsty jackals

It was poorly booked.

I really didn't have a problem with it.

For me, Bret hates Vince's guts, Vince hates Bret's. Vince screwed Bret in Montreal and since Bret's return, he showed zero compassion for what happened. He's had Bret beaten up off of Batista, spat in his face and insulted his Dad. Of course he's going to give Vince the beating of his life.

I see what you're saying about people not understanding the screwjob. I'd imagine there are a lot of fans today who don't have a good understanding of what happened in 1997. If this was how they intended the match to be when they brough Bret back in then maybe they should have told more of that story.

[CQI13]

Because as a storytelling device, you are supposed to ROOT FOR THE GOOD GUY

And in that match, the good guy had an unfair numbers advantage, took no punishment (not his fault, i know, but still there's a reaosn why the 'face in peril' is such a standard part of wrestling), used a series of weapons, and then twice refused to finish Vince off when he had the chance.

Take away the storyline, and that is a standard issue bad guy beatdown.

And the people who I was watching with, who didn't really understand the screwjob, all sympathized with Vince. Especially because the way the Harts came off - like a bunch of bloodthirsty jackals

It was poorly booked.

Or maybe he will actually turn heel? I know a lot of people sided with Vince in the beginning anyway (after the JR interview ages ago). The tide turned when he became Mr. McMahon.

As far as the National Anthem/America the Beautiful...don't they alternate it? Or has it always been America the Beautiful?

[FlameSnoopy]

I really didn't have a problem with it..

I didn't either. Most of the fans do know the Montreal Screwjob. All the talked about during the storyline (it seems) was Montreal Screwjob. Bret screwed Bret. Vince screwed Bret. Whatever. Bret Hart wanted to get revenge on Vince's action, and he wanted to screw Vince. He did it, and he got revenge.

[PeterHilton]

For me, Bret hates Vince's guts, Vince hates Bret's. Vince screwed Bret in Montreal and since Bret's return, he showed zero compassion for what happened. He's had Bret beaten up off of Batista, spat in his face and insulted his Dad. Of course he's going to give Vince the beating of his life.

I see what you're saying about people not understanding the screwjob. I'd imagine there are a lot of fans today who don't have a good understanding of what happened in 1997. If this was how they intended the match to be when they brough Bret back in then maybe they should have told more of that story.

Or done a better job of recapping the last few months? Or just booked it so Bret didn't have such a huge advantage? Or possibly do the "i bought off the Harts" and then reveal the double-cross a little later in the match.

Or maybe he will actually turn heel? I know a lot of people sided with Vince in the beginning anyway (after the JR interview ages ago). The tide turned when he became Mr. McMahon.


See..if it leads to that it'd make more sense.

[PeterHilton]

I didn't either. Most of the fans do know the Montreal Screwjob. All the talked about during the storyline (it seems) was Montreal Screwjob. Bret screwed Bret. Vince screwed Bret. Whatever. Bret Hart wanted to get revenge on Vince's action, and he wanted to screw Vince. He did it, and he got revenge.

ummmmm...I think that might be a reach. This is not the same fanbase. WM draws a lot of casual fans and Bret left the company more than a decade ago.

People know "of it" but I don't think most viewers really understand the impact.

[UkWrestleFan]

Or done a better job of recapping the last few months? Or just booked it so Bret didn't have such a huge advantage? Or possibly do the "i bought off the Harts" and then reveal the double-cross a little later in the match.


See..if it leads to that it'd make more sense.

That's the thing I found most odd, Vince "buying" The Hart's. As soon as that happened it was just obvious there'd be a double-cross. If it was just The Hart Dynasty, maybe that would've worked better, I dunno. They were/are heels anyway.

It'd be amazing if Bret turns heel.

[thommohawk]

For me this being a Wrestlemania I thought it wasn't a particularly good one, which isn't saying much since that's been WWE's creative problem for years now....though some things they've done absolutely right, Jericho and Punk's current personas for one, though how much of this is down to booking or talent is one for opinion either way they're the best talents WWE has right now in my honest opinion.

I thought the Hart vs McMahon thing was good, it was bittersweet for me this Wrestlemania since Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels are/were my favorite wrestlers of all time growing up and last night may well have been the very last time I'll see them in a wrestling ring. Though it was nice to see Bret in the ring and hook the sharpshooter on Vince after all these years.

On a final note about Wrestlemania, my honest opinion about the Michaels vs Taker match - 1) it wasn't anywhere near as good as last year's, though that wasn't to be expected. 2) Michaels deserved bigger build and a better send off considering the send offs that Flair and Trish got, unless of course he wanted it that way somewhat low key on the biggest stage of them all taking his bow. I thought the finish to the match sucked too, with Flair vs HBK it was spot on, but it didn't suit Michaels in my opinion - maybe a better thing would have been some kind of set piece sick bump type thing followed up by a tombstone finish after Michaels is still twitching trying to fight but body can't do it and Taker tombstones him to hell anyways and gets the inconsequential three count after the fact - then give Michaels a Ric Flair type send off on Raw the next day which I still hope they do as he deserves it too. Obviously HBK is straight in the HOF next year and deservedly so!

[Hyde Hill]

yet if Christan had won, people would cry that it was terrible because it was so predictable.

The WWE and TNA can't win with the Smart marks, no matter what they do. Swagger will most likely be the first guy to cash in the MITB and lose, that's been overdue to happen storywise for about two years.

Christan will probably win the MITB PPV shot, and get to actually use it. Swagger is going to cash in like an idiot and lose to cena.

WWE is always predictable, to a point on PPV's. and that's not always a bad thing, despite what some people think is good storytelling.

See our TNA thread discussion, TNA will be much, much better off once they start telling good stories, rather than booking the swerve for the sake of the swerve and to try to appease the IWC (who hates on them anyway, for of course, not telling a story well enough).

I'm sure the IWC will immediately label them as "predictable crap" too once they start doing what the crowd wants too though.

Good, but not great WM. Much, much better than some of the posts in this thread give it credit for. Some times the expectations of the IWC amuse the hell out of me. If wrestling was half as epic as they claim every match should be, it would be the #1 pass time in the world :D

I think the E and TNA tend to be on both sides of the spectrum. The E is overly predictable and TNA is over swerving, turning, shocking for shock. Its about finding a good balance imho.

[PeterHilton]

I think the E and TNA tend to be on both sides of the spectrum. The E is overly predictable and TNA is over swerving, turning, shocking for shock. Its about finding a good balance imho.

What's funny is that the E is only overly predictable to the wrestling geeks (like, say, people who would pay to own a text based wrestling simulator :p ) because the casual fan who watchs the shows without thinking too hard seem to follow along an enjoy it well enough.

[Hyde Hill]

I think but can't be sure that even for a casual who watches for 2 to 3 years it becomes kinda predictable and stale. I am not saying one is superior to the other, actually the E's is atm, but that they both have their flaws. TNA is becoming less all over the place though it seems.

[PeterHilton]

I think but can't be sure that even for a casual who watches for 2 to 3 years it becomes kinda predictable and stale. I am not saying one is superior to the other, actually the E's is atm, but that they both have their flaws. TNA is becoming less all over the place though it seems.

Two to three year in short spurts? Like...consistently watch for a few months then tune out for a few months and come back? I doubt it.

If you're watching every week for years you're not a casual fan. You're a wreslting geek lol

And TNA ...you know as well as I do that a couple weeks of good shows doesn't mean anything. They need to do this for months before I beleive the writing team is on the right track.

[PeterHilton]

On a lighter note:

WWE's video of SHawn post-match last night

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/video/vms/wrestlemania/2010/march29-31/13951768

[Tha Black Phenom]

His little talk with Bret Hart at the end of the vid was a nice sight.

Anyway, onto the show... I can't completely rate it, I was drunk in a bar downtown when I watched it and I even missed 1/4 of the show, coming in at 8pm. For what it was and what I remember... World title matches were alright, was psyched at Jericho retaining, and Taker/HBK II was a masterpiece yet again, still not as much as the first. But those two know how to put on a show. Somehow I don't think Shawn will be back soon, everybody's all "oh he'll be back around SummerSlam" but I really doubt it. If he ever does return, it'll be in a long looong while.

Punk/Rey was very cool, people say it was short but again.. I can't judge on that. Punk's pre-match promo was awesome, yet again. Bret/Vince.. draggingfest, can't blame them but there should've been more.. say, prompt actions. Some parts dragged when they really didn't need to. I like Sheamus and I like that Triple H beat him. They're gonna build him slowly again, and from the top. Definitely see the guy going to SmackDown! to make a name for himself.

Jack Swagger. Son of a b...

[Gabbo]

Kinda think HBK will be back to work a few Rumble to Mania programs over the next five years. Before gradually easing into full-time retirement.

Great, fantastic, brilliant match though, told a better story than last years match in what seemed like lesser time. Maybe it just flew by.

Cena and Batista was the next best match, I think. Nothing else excited or interested me.

Bret and Vince was a disappointment, although they did what they could with it. I missed the lack of backstage segments, legends and celebrities, that they usually feature. All in all it felt less of an 'event'. More like a glossy SummerSlam.

My days as a wrestling fan are looking numbered.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I think the whole predictability thing is overblown...yeah, the internet wrestling community knows everything that's going to happen, but this is the minority. And the WWE ignores that minority completely. For the average fan, the guy that doesn't read the dirt sheets or go to message board, I think there's still plenty of surprises.

But I have to disagree with you completely on the Undertaker match...I don't think it would be good business to have HBK win. Let's assume HBK is willing to commit to another match next year, and they have an amazing rubber match at Wrestlemania 27...then what? Who does Undertaker fight at Wrestlemania 28? Does anymore care? I don't. Once Undertaker's undefeated streak ends, you can't bring it back. That draw is gone forever. Having him lose is kind of like saying the WWE title can't be defended at Wrestlemania anymore. That's how big his streak is. In terms of business, they need to make that last as long as possible - meaning IF he ever loses, it damn well better be in his last Wrestlemania match.

If you wanted to take the whole rubber match approach, they could've had them fight at SummerSlam and HBK take the win to prove he can beat him, then set up the third at this Wrestlemania...but they both took off too much time for that to happen.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying, man. I'm talking about a Wrestlemania Rubber Match, as in a Rock/Austin style trilogy. I don't care about the other PPVs, Undertaker loses on those, and it's no big deal. Austin himself said "Sure, you can beat him, but not at Wrestlemania." So it would do nothing for Michaels to win at Summerslam... You're telling me you wouldn't have sat there in absolute awe if Shawn Michaels ended the streak and then went on a monster win streak afterwards leading to one more title run? The WWE needs a monster surprise like this to happen to re-ignite the fire in the IWC and casual fans alike.

[thommohawk]

Kinda think HBK will be back to work a few Rumble to Mania programs over the next five years. Before gradually easing into full-time retirement.

Great, fantastic, brilliant match though, told a better story than last years match in what seemed like lesser time. Maybe it just flew by.

Cena and Batista was the next best match, I think. Nothing else excited or interested me.

Bret and Vince was a disappointment, although they did what they could with it. I missed the lack of backstage segments, legends and celebrities, that they usually feature. All in all it felt less of an 'event'. More like a glossy SummerSlam.

My days as a wrestling fan are looking numbered.

All I can say is thank god for TNA at least I'm good.....unless TNA goes to the pits but I can't see it. There's always UFC too but that's not always great, last one was average....anyways....am I the only one who isn't overhyping that Taker vs HBK match at WrestleMania just because it's Taker vs Michaels II and HBK's last match, it wasn't epic at all I've seen WWE produce way better before, hell I've seen Taker vs Michaels produce way better - like last year. This year wasn't a patch on last year I'm sorry. Not to say it sucked because it didn't but I'd have expected much better out of Shawn Michaels' last match to be bluntly honest.

It's like the Dark Knight movie in a way, it was good but it wasn't that great and yet Heath Ledger dies and suddenly his rendition of the Joker was masterful (granted it was good and mission accomplished he was better than Nicholsen RIP Heath) and the movie even better (again good and mission accomplished) but again it wasn't nearly as great as it was being made out to be. I'm all for a straight laced opinion, but I hate this unfair praise/criticism thing that people do all the time that gets right on my nerves. Especially when it bites them in the ass because it's like I told you so.

Chalk up another rant!

[PeterHilton]

All I can say is thank god for TNA at least I'm good.....unless TNA goes to the pits but I can't see it.

:rolleyes:

You did see the PPV that ended with the hole in the ring right?

[RingofHonorGuard]

On a final note about Wrestlemania, my honest opinion about the Michaels vs Taker match - 1) it wasn't anywhere near as good as last year's, though that wasn't to be expected. 2) Michaels deserved bigger build and a better send off considering the send offs that Flair and Trish got, unless of course he wanted it that way somewhat low key on the biggest stage of them all taking his bow. I thought the finish to the match sucked too, with Flair vs HBK it was spot on, but it didn't suit Michaels in my opinion - maybe a better thing would have been some kind of set piece sick bump type thing followed up by a tombstone finish after Michaels is still twitching trying to fight but body can't do it and Taker tombstones him to hell anyways and gets the inconsequential three count after the fact - then give Michaels a Ric Flair type send off on Raw the next day which I still hope they do as he deserves it too. Obviously HBK is straight in the HOF next year and deservedly so!

I liked this year's match more than last years because a small part of me thought Michaels might pull it off at certain points in the match, where as last year I expected Taker to win. I really wanted the WWE not to drop the ball on this, but it's most likely not the end of HBK, regardless of the match stipulation. You know how the E likes to break their stipulations like that.

[Gabbo]

Tried TNA; it's shockingly bad. Big fan of MMA, truth be told that's probably replaced the WWE and filled the combat shaped void in my brain.

You seem to imply this match is being overhyped because it's was Michaels' last. The fact it was his last lend so much more to the proceedings, it gave the match an emotional gravitas that the first lacked. The first was a clear, 'I'm good enough to beat the streak because I'm the best' type of match, this match was 'If I can't beat you - I'm nothing'. Michaels and the mood of the match shifted from a desire to beat Taker's streak to feed his ego, to a much deeper necessity to end the streak, reducing 25 years of work and hurt to nothing. This is all that mattered.

As I said, this had a story, with the lack of respect HBK showed Taker in using the 'throat slit' action, before an all out brawl that seemed to garner HBK respect from the Deadman, before HBK became the architect of his own downfall, clinging to Taker in order to repeat the throat-slit and seal his fate.

The first was a technical masterpiece in terms of psychology, in somewhat arbitrary circumstances. The match derived from an ego trip attacking the seemingly unbeatable. This match had a story going into it, no superego, just an animalistic sense of personal pride. Honestly, I thought the first was better all through the match, until the final bell. Then it all sunk in, I realised what I just watched and how much it meant to everyone. After the final bell last year it was 'oh well he gave it his best shot, onwards and upwards'.

Without a story, wrestling means very little.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Tried TNA; it's shockingly bad. Big fan of MMA, truth be told that's probably replaced the WWE and filled the combat shaped void in my brain.

You seem to imply this match is being overhyped because it's was Michaels' last. The fact it was his last lend so much more to the proceedings, it gave the match an emotional gravitas that the first lacked. The first was a clear, 'I'm good enough to beat the streak because I'm the best' type of match, this match was 'If I can't beat you - I'm nothing'. Michaels and the mood of the match shifted from a desire to beat Taker's streak to feed his ego, to a much deeper necessity to end the streak, reducing 25 years of work and hurt to nothing. This is all that mattered.

As I said, this had a story, with the lack of respect HBK showed Taker in using the 'throat slit' action, before an all out brawl that seemed to garner HBK respect from the Deadman, before HBK became the architect of his own downfall, clinging to Taker in order to repeat the throat-slit and seal his fate.

The first was a technical masterpiece in terms of psychology, in somewhat arbitrary circumstances. The match derived from an ego trip attacking the seemingly unbeatable. This match had a story going into it, no superego, just an animalistic sense of personal pride. Honestly, I thought the first was better all through the match, until the final bell. Then it all sunk in, I realised what I just watched and how much it meant to everyone. After the final bell last year it was 'oh well he gave it his best shot, onwards and upwards'.

Without a story, wrestling means very little.

One of the best posts I've read in a while, to be honest. I related a lot to what you wrote here. I too transitioned to MMA from WWE after it became to predictable, and I too am considering closing the door on pro wrestling(aside from a bit of ROH here and there).

[Self]

I liked this year's match more than last years because a small part of me thought Michaels might pull it off at certain points in the match, where as last year I expected Taker to win.

I actually had "Woah Shawn's actually going to do it" thoughts during both matches, so kudos to them for that. My problem was that last year, the ROH-style one-billion kick-outs were unexpected. This time, they were par for the course. They did the Undertaker-injury thing, Shawn did some submissions, they changed a few spots around, but all in all it was too similar to last year's for me. A good sequel presents a new slant on things. This did not. 4-star match though.

[Undertaker666]

Brief thoughts:

- John Morrison And R-Truth Vs. ShowMiz

Not nearly good enough to be the opening (Wrestlemania) match.

- Randy Orton Vs. Cody Rhodes Vs. Ted DiBiase

The problem with these matches is that I find it hard to suspend my disbelief that two people can't beat the snot out of one person. We've all seen the Face vs two Heels in the past and then the Heels squabble over who gets the pinfall/submission. Lazy booking.
In my opinion, Ted DiBiase could be a huge star and I thought this would be his launch pad. Sadly not.

- Ten Man Money In The Bank Ladder Match

Not sure where all the hate is coming from for this match. I thought it was good, typical MITB ladder matchy stuff going on and a laughter moment watching Kofi use the ladders as stilts... although Swagger taking forever to unhook the briefcase was painful to watch... as was Swagger actually getting the win.

- Triple H Vs. Sheamus

Everything was OK here, nothing to write home about though.

- Rey Mysterio Vs. CM Punk

Rey wins. Meh. I've seen small people beat (much) larger people in MMA fights, but I still can't believe in Rey Mysterio considering he's knee-high to a midget.

- Bret Hart Vs. Vince McMahon

I wasn't expecting a classic but, as has been said, poorly booked. There were times when Bret hit Vince with the chair and it looked like Vince wasn't expecting it/fearing for his life. (the mini-crowbar segment was terrible)
I'm glad Bret got one final Wrestlemania moment (love the Hitman) but it went on waaaaaaay too long and Bret's main problem was balance. (obviously not his fault though)

- Chris Jericho (c) Vs. Edge

Still not seeing what everyone else sees in Edge. I'll admit Edge can put on a decent match but this was below par for what I was expecting.

- 10-Diva Tag Team Match

Awful. Just awful. Not only that, Vickie Guerrero actually got a pop (unless my ears were deceiving me) when she did the Eddie tribute while on the top turnbuckle.

- Batista (c) Vs. John Cena

Considering the two people involved, I thought it was quite good. When Cena almost launched Batista out of the stadium with the FU (it's not the "Attitude Adjustment", WWE) I almost smiled.

- Shawn Michaels Vs. The Undertaker

Great. Not as good as last year, but still the match of the night.

[BurningHamster]

On another note, the WWE camera work was unusually bad last night. Woof. And the announcers were god awful. Jim Ross meant so much to the credibility of the E.

Actually I think the camera work was solid but the vision mixer screwed up a number of times by going to the wrong camera, including once during Taker/Michaels when it seemingly went to a shot of nothing. (sorry to be pedantic, cameraman here)

I agree about the announcers though, Michael Cole just isn't very good and while I find Jim Ross boring when you have to listen to him talk about high school football careers every week he is the kind of guy who knows how to add gravity to major events and really put them over.

That aside, I am surprised at how negative a lot of the feedback for the show was. I personally think it was a good show, not the best wrestlemania ever but definitely above average and I would say best in the last 5 years or so.

America the beautiful sung by generic black woman I never heard of sucked but I liked the hokey imagery and I think the whole atmosphere with the jets, the fireworks etc made the show feel pretty epic. The crowd wasn't the best and I think the open stadium effected the sound a bit but what can ya do?

The opening tag match got things off to a nice start, fast paced, Morrison in slow mo with fireworks behind him was a cool visual. There were a few nice spots and this was perfectly alright for a short "warm up the crowd" type of opener.

Three way was decent (short of Lawler's confusion over the rules) and Orton has gotten really good while I was avoiding him because he used to suck. DiBiase Jr and Cody Rhodes are both barely a step above David Flair on the awful children of awesome wrestlers list though.

MITB Ladder match was fun, some nice spots, the ladder stilts spot looked pretty goofy but at least it was something different and creative. Jack Swagger doesn't impress me much but I enjoyed the match plenty.

Triple H against Sheamus was what I expected. I'm not really a fan of generic WWE heavyweight wrestling so this was probably the least exciting match for me.

CM Punk against Rey was good. CM Punk is the king at the moment, accusing 70000 people of being on hallucinogenic drugs making them think Rey was a super hero? Superb. GI Joe trunks? Doubly superb. Rey's Avatar outfit was mad goofy though and not sure what happened with his entrance.

Hart against McMahon is the one match I can see people being disappointed the most by. I understand why it was done like that, because I really don't think Hart is in good enough condition to wrestle a full length physical match and take bumps but McMahon buying the Hart Family was pretty stupid. I have to admit McMahon taking a Hart Attack was good though and the chairshots, dear lord the chairshots.

Jericho against Edge. Pretty good match, everything made sense and I still like Jericho. Plus the post match spear off the announce table was good times.

Diva Tag Match was perfectly fine for what it was. Bunch of chicks hitting the only spots they know how to do then getting the hell out of the ring plus at this point in the show it was nice to have a nice, short match to break up the longer segments.

Batista against Cena was pretty solid. The mixed crowd reaction maybe hurt this one a bit since there were a fair few obviously anti-Cena people. I've never been a Batista fan and probably never will be but this match was better than it should have been.

HBK against Undertaker was pretty awesome. Taker's leg seemed to slow things down and there was perhaps less spots than last year and I do think the multiple Sweet Chins and Tombstones could have been cut down a bit but damn. The epic vibe of the match, the intensity, the moonsault onto the table. Good stuff.

Plus Mean Gene in a dress, Inoki, Mad Dog Vachon spazzing out in a wheelchair, WWE getting some stiffness and intensity going which has been sorely lacking for years now. Seriously, If you couldn't enjoy that show then maybe it's time to take a break from watching wrestling or get into the indies or something.

[Hyde Hill]

Reportedly Rey's entrance got botched he was supposed to be catapulted by an elevator on to the stage but it malfunctioned so he climbed out of the hole. Cameramen yeah it was not just their fault also production snafu's. On enjoyment it was decent but it wasn't great, enjoyed 24 a hell of a lot more and in some respects even 25 despite the lackluster main.

[Undertaker666]

Three way was decent (short of Lawler's confusion over the rules)

Glad i'm not the only one who noticed that. Triple-threat, not a three-way dance! He said it at least twice too. :rolleyes:

That also brings me to Michael Cole: "Twist of Fate off the top of the ladder"... ummmm... Christian gave Matt Hardy a reverse DDT off the ladder. Do I believe my eyes or what Michael Cole tells me. :rolleyes:

Michael Cole has no place being the lead announcer for any event, let alone Wrestlemania.

Random Michael Cole bashing:"I've NEVER seen Batista/Cena go to the top rope before!"... even though he called it the last time they did it. :rolleyes:

[Tha Black Phenom]

Just had to share this, from another forum:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ccuudl.png

:p

[Hyde Hill]

That man needs a fishstick bad lolz.

[PeterHilton]

HAHA..Swagger was tremendous!

[BurningHamster]

That man needs a fishstick bad lolz.

Haha what was that sign about? Purely random or is there some fishstick connection I am unaware of?

[RingofHonorGuard]

Just had to share this, from another forum:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ccuudl.png

:p

Batista says "I CAN HAZ CHEEZBRGR?"

[Hyde Hill]

Haha what was that sign about? Purely random or is there some fishstick connection I am unaware of?

No idea but it was a nice sign. Not as good as Triple H Fears Divorce though.

[jjohns44]

Someone I know who watches wrestling said that of 'The Legacy' they preferred Ted Dibiase over Cody Rhodes and it had me wondering if there were others who may feel that way. I myself do like Ted.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Someone I know who watches wrestling said that of 'The Legacy' they preferred Ted Dibiase over Cody Rhodes and it had me wondering if there were others who may feel that way. I myself do like Ted.

I'll say this... Cody Rhodes is skinny, and to be quite honest, not something you would look at as having star quality in his face. However, I think he has the ability to shine on the microphone if he practices, and I think that's going to get him over in the long run.

Ted Dibiase is a future star, and he's always been ahead of Rhodes for that reason.

Look at it like this: Edge and Christian... Edge is/was considered the star of the team by a lot of people. It's the same way with Legacy. The same way it was with the Rockers. Occasionally you have teams that produce a great singles star.

Dibiase will be a US or IC champion by years end, and most likely a world champion by the end of next year. Cody Rhodes will flounder around for a while, kind of like Jack Swagger and MVP did in the US title scene.

[ampulator]

Someone I know who watches wrestling said that of 'The Legacy' they preferred Ted Dibiase over Cody Rhodes and it had me wondering if there were others who may feel that way. I myself do like Ted.
The irony of Ted Dibiase and Cody Rhodes is each only has a bit of what the WWE wants, not the total package.

In terms of looks, Ted Dibiase has the right size and height, but Cody has the better body. In terms of charisma and mic skills, Cody has more, but in terms of having the ring skills that WWE desires, Ted Dibiase fits the bill better. Ted has better fundamentals, but Cody has better psychology, flashiness, and sells better. Cody looks like a kid, but sounds a like a man, and Ted looks a man, but sounds like a kid.

Seriously, if there was a person that had the good qualities of each, they would moonpush that person. As it stands, Dibiase needs to get more comfortable with the mic (he sounds so whiny when he's talking), and he needs to add a bit pizzaz and use a bit more psychology.

I think both would make decent midcarders, but not much more than that. Certainly, I hate to say this, they are currently able to match either of their father's level.

[MattitudeV2]

I'm so happy that Bret is giving his niece,nephew and so called protege a rub as The Hart Dynasty can give ShoMiz a run for their money!!!

[TracyBrooksFan]

I'm so happy that Bret is giving his niece,nephew and so called protege a rub as The Hart Dynasty can give ShoMiz a run for their money!!!

so true its about time and damn Natalya looking good LOL

[TracyBrooksFan]

Haha what was that sign about? Purely random or is there some fishstick connection I am unaware of?

South Park did something bout fishsticks

[jesterx7769]

I see Ted being the most likely to be a future World champ out of alot of the new talent. Give him one feud outside of legacy (including Rhodes) the he can hold the Midcard title, and in 3 years the World. The reason I put so much time on it is b/c he needs to lose his young baby face look that Orton had as well, now that he has matured he can pull of that serious look (heel or face) where both Rhodes and DiBiase still look really young.

But I am minimally related to the Rhodes family so have to do root someone, I tracked it down since Dusty is from the same area my Granpa grew up (guess what my last name is? :p ) and if those stupid online things are right its like three or four parts off (like a 3rd/4th cousin type deal)

[The Final Countdown]

I loved Miz saying he was only 17 wins from equaling Taker's streak.

[MattitudeV2]

so true its about time and damn Natalya looking good LOL

I love her in white and pink perfect color combo and The Hart Dynasty are going to get a shot at The Unified Tag Team Championships at Extreme Rules.

[PeterHilton]

Orton is INSANELY over. Have him beat Batista and Cena in a three way and you could ride his popularity to damn near Summerslam.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

The tip of the hat was awesome.:D

[PeterHilton]

THAT was a really good episode of Raw.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Post WM Raws usually are. Before tonight I was happy in thinking that HBK would come back, now after that I think maybe it would be best if that was his last match. You don't get a much better send off.

[The Final Countdown]

Post WM Raws usually are. Before tonight I was happy in thinking that HBK would come back, now after that I think maybe it would be best if that was his last match. You don't get a much better send off.
And if you do, you render it meaningless by wrestling again. WOO!!

[Tha Black Phenom]

Really emotional goodbye for Shawn.

Silly viewers on the Raw streams constantly comparing his goodbye to Flair's. Sure, his was.. say more out there, but this isn't a damn competition. And at least Shawn himself said what he had to say.

And that basically tells it. He says he won't wrestle again.. part of me still thinks he'll give one last shout in like, three years, but even that looks doubtful now. Good-bye, HBK.

[fatallylost]

I loved Miz saying he was only 17 wins from equaling Taker's streak.

The man speaks the truth.

And if you do, you render it meaningless by wrestling again. WOO!!

Are you referring to Sonny Siaki? That's messed up man...

[jjohns44]

no, i think the 'wooo' was referring to ric flair and his send off, only to show up in TNA a year later

[jbergey_2005]

I cant say I like Orton as a face right now. The E is lacking a heels and they turn their top 2 heels a face in a matter of months.

We need a huge twist like Cena or Undertaker turning heel.

I really dislike that all of the top stars are faces right now.

Jericho does a great job as a heel but isnt that destructive heel that I like.

[TommyDreamerFan]

I gotta start watching Smackdown, the only people I care about in WWE is CM Punk and Chris Jericho. Everyone else is painfully boring to watch except for here and there I something looks cool, like orton punting people dead.

How long has Cena been a main event face? I swear this whole move back to PG programing is just a ploy so that Cena's turn can usher in Attitude Mach 2. And if it's not, it should be.

[PeterHilton]

no, i think the 'wooo' was referring to ric flair and his send off, only to show up in TNA a year later

Sarcasm not really big in your parts?

[PeterHilton]

I cant say I like Orton as a face right now. The E is lacking a heels and they turn their top 2 heels a face in a matter of months.

We need a huge twist like Cena or Undertaker turning heel.

I really dislike that all of the top stars are faces right now.

Jericho does a great job as a heel but isnt that destructive heel that I like.

Batista?

[jbergey_2005]

Batista?

I dont get real excited about him. I'm not sure if its how hes booked or if it is just him.

I like Punk as a ME caliber heel. I forgot about him.

Im a big fan of old school booking and I like the face overcoming all odds storylines. When the top performers of the company are all faces we dont get this type of storyline.

[PeterHilton]

I dont get real excited about him. I'm not sure if its how hes booked or if it is just him.

I like Punk as a ME caliber heel. I forgot about him.

Im a big fan of old school booking and I like the face overcoming all odds storylines. When the top performers of the company are all faces we dont get this type of storyline.

I have to disagree if only because the the top performers AREN'T all faces.

Jericho and Punk have been stellar, and I know you're not excited about him but Dave is doing his best work in years since turning heel.

Orton can't be heel...not with the current product. He's just getting too many pops from the crowd.

[jbergey_2005]

I have to disagree if only because the the top performers AREN'T all faces.

Jericho and Punk have been stellar, and I know you're not excited about him but Dave is doing his best work in years since turning heel.

Orton can't be heel...not with the current product. He's just getting too many pops from the crowd.

I originally had the top faces of the company were all faces and that didnt sound right so I changed it to performers which isnt exactly right either.

I guess what I mean is that the way they have been booked Undertaker, Orton, Cena, and Triple H are capable of winning any match while guys like Batista, Punk, Edge and Jericho are usually the feeders. It gets very uninteresting when the results are so predictable.

For instance when Cena vs Batista was booked it was highly likely that Cena was going to win at WM where as if you book Cena vs any of the other 3 its a coin flip.

I am against the majority but I felt this last HBK/UT match was better than last years simply because i knew Undertaker would win last year while this year despite the fact UT was the huge favorite they had me believing until the very end that HBK might actually pull it out.

[Stennick]

It depends on which way you look at it. Of the three "main events" only Cena winning was predictable I'd say. Edge vs. Jericho was a surprise and who knew about UT vs. Shawn. I do get your point where right now the faces are the "dominant" guys. I think your looking for that dominating heel that guys like Trips usually play

[ampulator]

I have to disagree if only because the the top performers AREN'T all faces.

Jericho and Punk have been stellar, and I know you're not excited about him but Dave is doing his best work in years since turning heel.

Orton can't be heel...not with the current product. He's just getting too many pops from the crowd.
I disagree, only if partly. He SHOULD be able to get heel heat from this product... it's just that fans don't care what WWE wants in this case, partly, and partly because they booked him in a way where he would get cheered.

It all started when he started punting the McMahons. Seriously, did anyone think this was a great way to gain heel heat? When people think of Vince McMahon, they don't think of "Old Man", they think of "VINCE MCMAHON". When people think of Stephanie McMahon, they don't think "young woman", they think of "STEPHANIE MCMAHON". It just doesn't work. It sort of worked with Shane McMahon, but it felt more like the next-in-line for a McMahon beating.

[Hyde Hill]

I loved Miz saying he was only 17 wins from equaling Taker's streak.

The man speaks the truth.

Too bad he already lost last year hehe. Ok it was on the preshow and a tag match but still.

[Moe Hunter]

Haha what was that sign about? Purely random or is there some fishstick connection I am unaware of?

South Park reference. Fishsticks = Fish Dicks.

"Do you like Fishsticks?"
"Yeah"
"You like putting Fishsticks in your mouth?"
"Yeah"
"What are you, a gay fish?"

The episode's plot involved Kanye West being the only person on Earth who didn't get the joke, and thought people were making rumours about him. I don't know whether they signmakers made the connection of Batista doing the Kanye ripoff at the Slammys or not, but either way I thought the sign was very funny!

[jbergey_2005]

It depends on which way you look at it. Of the three "main events" only Cena winning was predictable I'd say. Edge vs. Jericho was a surprise and who knew about UT vs. Shawn. I do get your point where right now the faces are the "dominant" guys. I think your looking for that dominating heel that guys like Trips usually play

You would be correct! I like the dominating heel and it seems like it has been ages since the WWE had one of these. Orton was pretty good but he still lost too many matches.

I'd love to see a heel go on a 6+ month streak kicking the crap out of everyone. When that face finally beats a guy like this then the match has meaning.

WWE books their heels to look so weak at times.

I'm not sure if it is because the fans have become so impatient but in the past the WWF was great at booking a year in advance. Right now it just seems like everything is thrown together 2 hours before the show.