The Official TNA Discussion Thread

[darthsiddus2]

in early tna i think skipper was actully a good draw......he was part of XXX *a good stable in my view* and he had a few runs with the tag titles. I will always remember skipper walking the top of the cage. It was insane and looked great.....the guy would take risks in the ring and i think he was pretty over in the weekley ppv era.

Yes but he had the personality of a gnat. same thing with Benjamin.

[Hyde Hill]

Facebook page dedicated to stopping the bubba army plant:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=343462747461&ref=ts

That guy has done more to distract and detract from the product since he has been there then all the other fans before that ever imho.

[Hyde Hill]

Also what do people think of this idea as a worked shoot?

Say the nasties and bubba come out and he goes Bubba Army, Nastize them sign again followed by pipe down nerds. The other fans throw him over the guardrail. Nasties and bubba come down to defend him. Whole part of the crowd riots and kicks that plant, the nasties and bubba out of the building hopefully never to be seen again. Maybe Dixie or EB comes out after security restores order. And say well the fans have spoken you guys are fired.

I think that would create a lot of buzz.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Facebook page dedicated to stopping the bubba army plant:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=343462747461&ref=ts

That guy has done more to distract and detract from the product since he has been there then all the other fans before that ever imho.

Detract from who? The same losers the in the impact zone that go behind Lance Hoyt? The ones who created the whole "Whooooaaaaa! Go Abyss!" chant back in 2004? **** THOSE PEOPLE! Milk Bubba the love sponge for all he's worth I say! Otherwise what good is he aside from just making Hogan happy?

Seriously the only thing I hate about Bubba is that he cost Awesome Kong her job, and even that is debatable.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Also what do people think of this idea as a worked shoot?

Say the nasties and bubba come out and he goes Bubba Army, Nastize them sign again followed by pipe down nerds. The other fans throw him over the guardrail. Nasties and bubba come down to defend him. Whole part of the crowd riots and kicks that plant, the nasties and bubba out of the building hopefully never to be seen again. Maybe Dixie or EB comes out after security restores order. And say well the fans have spoken you guys are fired.

I think that would create a lot of buzz.

Horrible. The only reason people care about Nastys is in relation to the dudley's feud. after the dudleys beat their asses and solidfy themselves as the next Road Warriors, no one is gonna give a damn about them. Plus the angle is relying way to much on the crowd and god knows you NEVER give that crowd that degree of power or what kind of booker are you?

and Dixie should never talk on TV ever. She's way to dear in headlights to be taken seriously (though that segment with Sting was awesome and believable)

[brashleyholland]

Also what do people think of this idea as a worked shoot?

Say the nasties and bubba come out and he goes Bubba Army, Nastize them sign again followed by pipe down nerds. The other fans throw him over the guardrail. Nasties and bubba come down to defend him. Whole part of the crowd riots and kicks that plant, the nasties and bubba out of the building hopefully never to be seen again. Maybe Dixie or EB comes out after security restores order. And say well the fans have spoken you guys are fired.

I think that would create a lot of buzz.

So option 1, you have actual fans doing the throwing out. That'd never work for a whole host of reasons. Half of them wouldn't behave, you'd have idiots getting to 'into it' and having to be thrown out...all sorts of commotion.

Option 2, you have 20 'plants' in the crowd, hassling another 'plant'. It also sends out the message to drunk idiots in the crowd that they can physically hassle someone. Obviously anyone with a bit of common sense would know otherwise...but there's always one...

Personally I hate all 'worked-shoot' angles. It's either real or make believe, can't have it both ways.

[Hyde Hill]

Horrible. The only reason people care about Nastys is in relation to the dudley's feud. after the dudleys beat their asses and solidfy themselves as the next Road Warriors, no one is gonna give a damn about them. Plus the angle is relying way to much on the crowd and god knows you NEVER give that crowd that degree of power or what kind of booker are you?

and Dixie should never talk on TV ever. She's way to dear in headlights to be taken seriously (though that segment with Sting was awesome and believable)

People care about the nasties because of tv time they are taking up and they where not needed to solidify 3D in any way imho.

What kind of booker I am. Well this is my most out of the box idea to date hehe.

That's why I suggested Bischoff as well. Problem with that is that EB is heel and Hogan would be hard as he is a know friend to those three. He could work though as well.

So option 1, you have actual fans doing the throwing out. That'd never work for a whole host of reasons. Half of them wouldn't behave, you'd have idiots getting to 'into it' and having to be thrown out...all sorts of commotion.

Option 2, you have 20 'plants' in the crowd, hassling another 'plant'. It also sends out the message to drunk idiots in the crowd that they can physically hassle someone. Obviously anyone with a bit of common sense would know otherwise...but there's always one...

Personally I hate all 'worked-shoot' angles. It's either real or make believe, can't have it both ways.


On using the crowd, have some plants as the vanguard doing the actual shoving and have the rest simply be body mass. Also rehearse it beforehand and make it clear that anybody that gets out of line will be banned for life and get charges pressed against them.

Yeah the drunk idiots would be a problem but seeing as they won't be moving out of the Impact Zone for a while and the regulars take up the seats where hassling is possible I don't think it would be that much of a problem long term.

Ok so you are not a fan of worked shoots ok that is fine. But remember the vast majority of viewers are not IWC. It would be something never seen before and would create massive buzz.

Yeah its totally out of the box and is hard to execute well but I think it would make for exciting television and really ad to the anything can happen atmosphere.

And of course get rid of some of my pet peeves on TNA tv atm.:D

[thommohawk]

Got a question. With all those people you listed off (and the ones you didn't), where are they going to find time to give the X-Division some shine? My opinion (and I doubt I'll be proven wrong): they won't. Now before someone jumps out with the 'there was an X-Division match...' tripe, that's not the same thing. Just because you have a match for the division doesn't mean you're developing characters and storylines for and around said division. It's like saying one Knockouts match per show is enough to say the Knockouts are featured. They're not. Seeing as how the X-Division is the only thing TNA has that WWE has nothing even vaguely resembling, you'd think they'd want to press that advantage. But to do so, Knobbs and Saggs and Waltman and Hall have to give up TV time (and that's not gonna happen).


Agreed they won't give up their TV time but for me in my honest opinion nor should they. As someone else said TNA right now are focusing on getting their name out there and gaining mainstream exposure. Sure they'll get their asses kicked in the meantime and there'll be a lot of teething pains but the mere fact they have Hogan, Nasties, live Monday timeslot etc is only good for TNA in the long run in terms of getting their name out there amongst the masses. Now don't get me wrong the X Division is a vital part of this because it's a legitimate part of TNA that is an absolutely unique selling point to them. And I know I'm not the only one who got hooked on TNA via the X Divison, AJ Styles and the MotorCityMachineGuns.....

Basically they'll just have to find time for the X Division platform as they'll quickly find the X Division to be one of the most over attractions that they have even now. But if you're honest, they aren't exactly giving the X Division less exposure under the Hogan era than they have in the last 2 years. But the best thing that TNA can do is really emphasize the X Division and it's athletes and have the big guns promote it too and that's what they're doing. It's just not the main focus of the show and nor should it be right now.

You have to keep in mind as well that there was a time when TNA was the X Division, yet during that time period did they ever break through the glass ceiling as it were ? No. Not saying it wasn't hugely influencial in their rapid growth, it was. But they didn't break the ceiling until Hogan and Bisch came in. Now they've broken through the ceiling by going live on Monday's. That's an accomplishment in and of itself, and TNA can change tac any time they want to, but right now they have their platform and they're getting their name out there and that's why Hall and Hogan are at the top of the card as they are major mainstream draws for TNA, though the recent ratings suggest RVD is and Sting are even bigger draws lol.

The only thing what upsets me is Hogan getting in the ring again, okay Flair vs Hogan had to be done but I don't want Hogan in the ring - and don't get me started on Brooke Hogan, she has zero business being a part of the show. Though what I wouldn't give for her to take a Styles Clash lol. That's actually not a bad idea now I think of it....some real heat for AJ. And plenty of cheers I'm sure.

[Hyde Hill]

Or Brooke becoming one of Flair and AJ's ehm lady friends hehe. Could be entertaining but would take time away from what actually matters so better not. But if they HAVE to use her that's what I would do.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Or Brooke becoming one of Flair and AJ's ehm lady friends hehe. Could be entertaining but would take time away from what actually matters so better not. But if they HAVE to use her that's what I would do.

wouldn't though as that only brings Hogan back to being a wrestler. Unless they did it, set up AJ vs Hogan and have AJ DESTROY Hogan... and then the washed up old man turns to Abyss to "Win one for the Hulkster!"

[cappyboy]

wouldn't though as that only brings Hogan back to being a wrestler. Unless they did it, set up AJ vs Hogan and have AJ DESTROY Hogan... and then the washed up old man turns to Abyss to "Win one for the Hulkster!"

That could be pretty good. And here's a thought the folks who don't like the current Abyss might approve of. What if the process of winning that "one for the Hulkster" was such a long devastating haul that it brought back the primal side of Abyss? Hogan then has to try at getting Abyss back in line and ends up failing. That could take Abyss to whole new level of monsterdom. Hogan's getting to the age where such a destruction could well be permanent. I know I wouldn't want to be the guy who had to deal with Abyss next.

[TommyDreamerFan]

That could be pretty good. And here's a thought the folks who don't like the current Abyss might approve of. What if the process of winning that "one for the Hulkster" was such a long devastating haul that it brought back the primal side of Abyss? Hogan then has to try at getting Abyss back in line and ends up failing. That could take Abyss to whole new level of monsterdom. Hogan's getting to the age where such a destruction could well be permanent. I know I wouldn't want to be the guy who had to deal with Abyss next.

Back when Jarrett lost the title to Sting, and Samoa Joe was still being built up as a monster I came up with a killer idea. Joe would proceed to kill the roster on his way to TNA title, and after destroying everyone in the company TNA would have to bring back the devil that knew and drove away (Jarrett), to take upon the devil that their dealing with now.

[djthefunkchris]

wouldn't though as that only brings Hogan back to being a wrestler. Unless they did it, set up AJ vs Hogan and have AJ DESTROY Hogan... and then the washed up old man turns to Abyss to "Win one for the Hulkster!"

At this point, a DESTROYED Hulk Hogan vs. an AJ Styles would only make the Hulkster look weak, and wouldn't mean what people think it would.

I've noticed that everyone seems to think if someone like Hogan, HHH, or even Undertaker losing to someone with the popularity of a AJ Styles or equivalent, would equal AJ Styles becoming as over as HHH, Hogan, etc. It wouldn't. Hogan would still be popular, AJ wouldn't gain anything really. Hogan is old, and people would just say "He can't go anymore, look how easy that kid beat him". Would crush Hogan as a draw more then likely as well.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah in a match it should be a clean win with a half a dominate note so to speak not a burial. In an angle he can destroy him no problem though. He wouldn't automatically gain that level but it does help if done well.

[justtxyank]

Anyone mention the Impact replay rating scored a 1.0 as well? That's impressive.

[PeterHilton]

Anyone mention the Impact replay rating scored a 1.0 as well? That's impressive.

:confused:

It could also be another sign that TNA has a hardcore faithful group of fans...and that's it.

[djthefunkchris]

Yeah in a match it should be a clean win with a half a dominate note so to speak not a burial. In an angle he can destroy him no problem though. He wouldn't automatically gain that level but it does help if done well.

/nod, it would help to an extent if the angle was done well enough.

I take it you got my meaning, which is awesome. I can't help when I read some of the stuff on the forums here, when I see "Undertaker should lose to someone like "X" Wrestler at Wrestlemania", when it you have someone that is too far "below" him, it would hurt him alot more then it would help the other person (that's just an example). For someone like Hogan, it would just crush his believability in the ring as an actual threat... Might as well have someone like Eugene, Marella (in character) or even Hornswaggle beat him clean, it would crush Hogan, and not help them even 1/10th as much as it hurt him.

If I wanted to get AJ over through Hogan, I would have AJ win via Flair low blows Hogan, or something like that... Ref doesn't see, Hogan has a reason to say it wasn't fair, and AJ gets the win. OR, I'd have him Ambush Hogan before he gets to the ring, and get a good beat down to where it's obvious Hogan isn't 100%, and have AJ win cleanly without a cheat (in the ring). These are things that might help a bit more, then just having Hogan start Jobbing to people in TNA. He does that, he might as well leave because he won't be able to help them out anymore.

[djthefunkchris]

Anyone mention the Impact replay rating scored a 1.0 as well? That's impressive.

:confused:

It could also be another sign that TNA has a hardcore faithful group of fans...and that's it.

It could, but if you look a bit more optimistically (and hopefully they hyped them being on Mondays again on the re-run), it could also mean that alot of people didn't realise they were on Monday.

I've also felt that having the "re-run" on thursday might make alot of people that just like wrestling (don't have this TNA vs. WWE mentality), tune if for Raw on Monday, and TNA on Thursday. I think alot of people really don't care if it's live or not, at least not as many people that the companies seem to think care (both WWE and TNA).

I just did a little thing on TEW. I took that Monday night show, and booked it as close as I could.I Had to eliminate about half the angle's (and a good amount of time on the one's I had), to make it come up to 70% match's as that's the way the MOD I'm playing has their product set to (I guess I'll have to change that to a more realistic way). With just half the angles, and the match's complete, I was only at 54%. Was worse then I thought.

The cool thing is that I got a pretty good show out of it anyways. I had almost 500 more people then was expected, and the feedback from fans has been great. It says the show has drawn alot of praise!

So now I think I'm going to continue, as I started it with this month, and did the show as it was so I would be up to date. I can't wait till I can get another show, so I can take over Friday nights as well! LOL

[cappyboy]

It could, but if you look a bit more optimistically (and hopefully they hyped them being on Mondays again on the re-run), it could also mean that alot of people didn't realise they were on Monday.

I've also felt that having the "re-run" on thursday might make alot of people that just like wrestling (don't have this TNA vs. WWE mentality), tune if for Raw on Monday, and TNA on Thursday. I think alot of people really don't care if it's live or not, at least not as many people that the companies seem to think care (both WWE and TNA).


Both really good points. Casual folks who heard late that Hogan was in the company and were only now able to catch up with TNA on Thursdays may not have heard that their were doing the Monday thing and just tuned in at the time they knew from their TV Guide. Be that Monday night live or the Thursday night replay.

And I definitely agree with you with about the re-run point. Before Hogan came in and the Saturday morning re-run went away, that's the airing I always tended to target. I couldn't have cared less whether I see the show live or later in the week on tape delay. When I started watching wrestling, there was no issue of that. Wrestling wasn't big enough to think about airing live. The reason I favored the Saturday morning replay was because it made watching TNA feel like I was doing so in the happier times when shows were regularly on during the weekend and syndication was far more common than live TV shows. Now the company I favor is on Monday nights and it feels most comfortable to watch then, so I watch it live. But if the Saturday replay came back, I'd probably go back to that again.

It seems like a lot of this goes on in visual entertainment. The producers have what they want to do or what they see everyone else doing and appear to assume that's the way it has to be. And when they are challenged on it, they use doing what the people want as an excuse. Never stopping to consider the mechanics of how it gets to them is generally one of the last things people care about. The people who care about live vs taped wrestling shows or hand-drawn vs computer animation or what have you aren't the general public but the fundamentalist few. It's like they are too close to the process sometimes. That may or may not be the actual case when you look inside the entertainment company. But from the outside looking in, that impression can certainly be there all the same.

[Hyde Hill]

I thought having the Saturday replay be an edited PG version for the kids would be a good idea. This would make it possible to build that audience and at the same time give one an extra reason to watch the original broadcast.

I know it would be costly but kids do buy more merchandise etc and it would allow them to grow up with the product and become loyal customers. Would need a lot of bleeps, blurs and some edits though. You can then fill that time with video packages and fill in the missed storyline with commentary.

[TommyDreamerFan]

I had a very werid dream last night, Sting screwed over TNA and showed up on RAW. He announced he'd kick shawn micheals ass for the right to face Undertaker at Wrestlemania but first he had to go back to TNA and fill his last contracted appearance there. But of course when he said TNA it was beeped out.

Vince came on the screen and apologized for stealing sting away from TNA, and then started crying saying he "only did it because he's a failure and his product can't compete with theirs."

...and for a few minutes after I woke up I was all "****! THAT WAS AN AMAZING EPISODE OF WRESTLING LAST NIGHT!"

[Hyde Hill]

Andy Douglas has apparently retired, too bad as I liked the Naturals and wouldn't have begrudged them another run.

[rd_dbacks01]

I had a very werid dream last night, Sting screwed over TNA and showed up on RAW.

I had a very similar dream last night, except RVD showed up on Smackdown for a match and then after the match Sting came and help RVD do a beatdown after the match. Sting then cut a promo saying they were taking over

[jesterx7769]

Andy Douglas has apparently retired, too bad as I liked the Naturals and wouldn't have begrudged them another run.

They're my favorite tag team in a long time. I miss them :( saw them live twice and Chase is a real intense worker, came out with all sorts of marks on him both times so props for that and telling people they can go all out on you

[TommyDreamerFan]

- The TNA brass was devastated by the 1.0 rating last week against Raw, believing the show was solid, reports Dave Meltzer. They were, however, encouraged by the 1.0 rating the replay did.

Friday repeat:

M18-49: .7

M18-34: .71

P2+: 1.3 million viewers


(source: Nielsen Media Research)

GOOD GOD! Their replay rating didn't go down! Thats awesome IMO

[Hyde Hill]

Yep and also Metlzer/WON is full of it. Multiple other sources including Bischoff and Foley have claimed the opposite. They where hoping for a little more then a 1.0 but where happy enough they got it and that the key demos are up

[brashleyholland]

Yep and also Metlzer/WON is full of it. Multiple other sources including Bischoff and Foley have claimed the opposite. They where hoping for a little more then a 1.0 but where happy enough they got it and that the key demos are up

To be fair though, company reps are never going to say they are 'devastated' by the ratings their show got the first night of it's permanent move to oppose the opposition....

There's no way they were happy with that rating.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah I get that but when Bisch uses expletives to make that point, plus the fact he has been pretty straight so far on his facebook and Meltzer's general bias against TNA I ain't buying it. Plus other equally reliable sources reported the morale to still be good although they where slightly disappointed at the rating. A well not that it matters. If it ain't on PWI I don't buy it even if it is true lol and even PWI isn't infallible.

[PeterHilton]

Yeah I get that but when Bisch uses expletives to make that point, plus the fact he has been pretty straight so far on his facebook and Meltzer's general bias against TNA I ain't buying it. Plus other equally reliable sources reported the morale to still be good although they where slightly disappointed at the rating. A well not that it matters. If it ain't on PWI I don't buy it even if it is true lol and even PWI isn't infallible.

To be fair though, company reps are never going to say they are 'devastated' by the ratings their show got the first night of it's permanent move to oppose the opposition....

There's no way they were happy with that rating.

Sorry...what brash said still applies. There's absolutely no way anyone involved with the company wasn't disappointed by the rating.

That doesn't mean you throw in the towel or anything, but it had to hurt. And to be honest...TNA hasn't put on a show that deserves to be getting ratings.

All the things they did that turned off fans before: the hotshot booking, ignroring the younger guys for retreads, not having enough actual wrestling, the segments where 17 things are happening at once...

It's not getting better. The stories are the same, the faces are just more familiar.

[jesterx7769]

I was dissapointed with the rating until I saw thursday did the same rating. It doesnt help the Monday rating of course but it shows the fan base is still there and hopefully those thursday people are mostly people that didnt watch on monday (i said hopefully) and they will begin to watch on mondays.

[Hyde Hill]

Just started a no more Nasty Boys on TNA tv group as it didn't exist yet. For those interested to join here is the link:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=365995766913

No offence is meant I just find them detrimental to the TNA product and dislike seeing them on my tv screen. Not in a heel way or personal way.

Would appreciate any advertising for this group. Do not know if it will help but you never know.

If anyone could make a picture for it would be great.

[Hyde Hill]

Peter they where disappointed, as far as can be gleaned. But devastated is a huge over statement.

[brashleyholland]

Just missed the first few mins of Impact...anyone know why Flair was all bloody?

[TheOmniWarrior]

Anyone know where theres a stream to watch impact live?

[jesterx7769]

b/c his promo was going nowhere, or b/c the fans were booing him and he punched himself in the head to show it was real (yes seriously that is apparentley what Flair needs to do cut a promo)...the segment was actually good except for Flair, AJ and Hardy's heat was going well and the black out to show the face paint was a real nice touch. More on the show later.

[Eisen-verse]

Seriously? A helmet?

(Shakes his head in disbelief) :rolleyes:

[PeterHilton]

the promo was meh and the follow up was Nasty Boys match where they teamed with Jimmy Hart.

Done with TNA for the night.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Was that old guy spike? geez the years didnt treat him well

[Hyde Hill]

the promo was meh and the follow up was Nasty Boys match where they teamed with Jimmy Hart.

Done with TNA for the night.

And miss the good parts? AJ vs Jeff Hardy among other things?

And no not defending the Nasties they need to go!

[liontamer]

meh, it's ok so far.

Right now I'm seeing the same mistake as last week. What is looking to be the worst segment is on right before the main event (and I like MMG, but they just aren't over right now, and while generation me has potential, they don't look like a serious threat to anyone except maybe spike and shannon moore)

let's see, for fans not familiar with TNA, the choice is Batista and Kofi with possible action from Stone Cold or 2 guys you've probably never heard of being up two other guys you've probably never heard of and who look like they are still in puberty. hmm....

... flipping back I see they added a high spot, but I'm a TNA fan and even I switched so I missed it so most people probably didn't see it.

EB stopping Hogan was interesting, curious to see where events take their business relationship. Also noted Hogan's theme is increasingly being made to sound more like the original nWo theme. The segment as a whole didn't seem very good.

Nash and Hall was blah, but it's two names so it might keep some newcomers attention.

Haven't seen anything on Joe..... again.

Hard to call with the 1.0 on the repeat, but I'm going to predict a 0.8 with a 0.5-0.6 during the MMG segment and most of the viewers in the 1st hour (and the main event if it runs past the end of raw). The only plus us that I didn't think Raw was that great either (btw Steve looks younger and healthier to me than when he left)

and what is up with hardy's face paint? I'm used to the goofy glow in the dark streaks on his face, but this seems a bit much. Is this something from his last run in the 'E

[TheOmniWarrior]

Did TNA Epics not debut yet? Its 8:08 here and UFC is still on. I thought epics was supposed to go on before TNA?

[PeterHilton]

lolwut?

This Abyss push is comically bad. I just...it's wrestlecrap worthy. :rolleyes:

[liontamer]

Did TNA Epics not debut yet? Its 8:08 here and UFC is still on. I thought epics was supposed to go on before TNA?

wasn't on, not sure why

also why did Hardy get a clean pin? it doesn't make since especially with his legal issues.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Found it

Source: http://www.wrestlingnewsworld.com/tna-news/tna-epics-moved-again.php


Episode 3 of TNA Epics, featuring the X Division, has been moved again, according to TNA's website. The program will now air Tuesday, March 16th, at 11 PM on Spike TV.

Go to http://prowrestlingevents.tk or http://prowrestlingevents.webs.com for info about upcoming wrestling shows worldwide.

[Eisen-verse]

lolwut?

This Abyss push is comically bad. I just...it's wrestlecrap worthy. :rolleyes:

Pure Wrestle-crap.

Sad that they are making Abyss look like a fool.

[liontamer]

Found it

Source: http://www.wrestlingnewsworld.com/tna-news/tna-epics-moved-again.php

why on earth is it tuesday ?(and did they plug it all during the show? I didn't hear anything)

if not monday it should be at impacts time on thurs or nobody will even know it's on.


and while I'm not fully behind it, I don't mind abyss's push. At least he's big and scary looking and may have just killed slick ric. The push I don't get is EY (who I like). He went over night from being scared of his own pyro to leader of the WE (btw what happened to WE? and somehow I missed how big Rob got EY's title a few weeks ago).

[ECW 2.0]

lol some of you act like u really know wrestling its really funny to read things that people who have only watched wrestling and play tew say tna needs to do im sure eb knows what hes doing and trust me TNA is 10000000X more entertaining than wwe but really all of you smarks get a life i mean try getting friends or get out a little bit theres more to life than what you watch on wrestling and im glad eb dont listen to any of you nerds about "what he needs to do"

[PeterHilton]

lol some of you act like u really know wrestling its really funny to read things that people who have only watched wrestling and play tew say tna needs to do im sure eb knows what hes doing and trust me TNA is 10000000X more entertaining than wwe but really all of you smarks get a life i mean try getting friends or get out a little bit theres more to life than what you watch on wrestling and im glad eb dont listen to any of you nerds about "what he needs to do"

:rolleyes:

[Wrestling Century]

Woah, ECW 2.0, what was that rant all about?

[Eisen-verse]

lol some of you act like u really know wrestling its really funny to read things that people who have only watched wrestling and play tew say tna needs to do im sure eb knows what hes doing and trust me TNA is 10000000X more entertaining than wwe but really all of you smarks get a life i mean try getting friends or get out a little bit theres more to life than what you watch on wrestling and im glad eb dont listen to any of you nerds about "what he needs to do"

That has to be the longest run-on sentence I've ever seen... :p

[jesterx7769]

I had to post a reply so I will post a smiley face similiar to others :)

[PeterHilton]

Woah, ECW 2.0, what was that rant all about?

Take a look at his post history. He's one of those "RAWR TNA can do no wrong" guys that call anyone who disagrees with him a WWEtardlolzz!!!! and makes actual TNA "fans" look goofy.

It's fine.

[Slagaholic]

While I understand all the criticisms of TNA, I can say that I've been enjoying the Bischoff/Hogan era. It's awful but at the same time a delight to watch. There's no defending the Nasty Boys, the fact that they're still around after this long is just mind boggling. But watching the show tonight, I was just entertained. I don't just dismiss angles and pushes purely because it may be a **** booking decision. When the Jeff Jarrett angle started, I thought it was retarded and didn't make sense. But as I've followed it, I can see the entertaining value. I think it's hilarious that Bischoff took away Jarrett's music, made him a janitor, etc. If you look at it as a wrestling show it will be frustrating sometimes. I'm in touch with my inner mark that fell in love with wrestling oh-so-many years ago. TNA makes me happy, I think it's good television. I hope it succeeds, mostly so I have a weekly wrestling show that I can watch and enjoy.

Criticize it all you want, I understand, know that out there, there is a long time wrestling fan, that enjoys TNA and isn't a TNA fan boy.

Good day.

[ECW 2.0]

i watch wwe every show they have and must say it has got better im just tired of people bashing tna just to bash them i mean some the people who were bashing flair/hogan getting in the ring for tna would be on hands and knees worshiping vince for it. Iike both and i dont agree some of what tna is doing (DAMN NASTY BOYZ) but its no were as bad as some people make it sound

[PeterHilton]

Sorry, but you can't ask people to be reasonable and then say stuff like "TNA is 10000000X more entertaining than wwe"

Both shows have issues. But while the WWE's problems seem to involve being way too conservative, TNA goes in the total opposite direction.

So the E comes off as predictable and boring.

But TNA comes off as a hot mess that just slaps random **** together half-assedly, turns characters for no reason, drops storylines w/o explanation and (in general) is trying to do way too much.

It's a train wreck. With brief glimpses of brilliance.

[Slagaholic]

It's like watching the end of Twin Peaks' second season every week! It's gold, Jerry!

[TommyDreamerFan]

Okay I enjoyed this show way more then I enjoyed the frantic show of last week. Plenty of breathing room and nothing flying at me.

I really hate the new version of Jeff Hardy's music.

Way to sell RVD's beat down Sting. WTF? And the angle ended on Hogan, which although from a thematic stand point I do like it "Hogan just can't let go" the booker in me thinks to only pull out Hogan for Bound For Glory. Treat him like The Undertaker post Wrestlemania XX.

Jeff Hardy going over the champ? Styles is playing the Flair-chicken**** heel. It doesn't matter if he loses in a non-title match up. He's suppose to be a guy that can be beat but somehow always seems to get away because the hero can catch him.

Good GOD will someone get the razor out of Flair's hands?

again these points aside, I enjoyed the show and bassically watched it with out switching over to RAW.

[ColtCabana]

Did anyone else see Foley on the Daily Show tonight? It was a pretty funny skit and it got the TNA brand out there as he was wearing a TNA shirt.

[Moe Hunter]

It's like watching the end of Twin Peaks' second season every week! It's gold, Jerry!

Just so we're clear, you mean the absolute final? With Cooper going to the Black Lodge and all of that?

I love that show, and that episode was such a trip. Not so much story-wise (Mulholland Dr had me reeling for weeks trying to piece it together) but just aesthetically how creepy everything was. I'd definitely much rather watch that every week than TNA in its current form.

[Daffanka]

TNA: Cross the Line (of retirement)

e: Wow when you think about it it's disturbing how similar TNA is to WCW. Except everyone's ten years older.

[Slagaholic]

TNA: Cross the Line (of retirement)

e: Wow when you think about it it's disturbing how similar TNA is to WCW. Except everyone's ten years older.

Other than some of the talent, how exactly is TNA similar to WCW? I keep hearing this but I have yet to hear a solid explanation other than just the talent being used.

[Remianen]

Sorry, but you can't ask people to be reasonable and then say stuff like "TNA is 10000000X more entertaining than wwe"

Both shows have issues. But while the WWE's problems seem to involve being way too conservative, TNA goes in the total opposite direction.

So the E comes off as predictable and boring.

But TNA comes off as a hot mess that just slaps random **** together half-assedly, turns characters for no reason, drops storylines w/o explanation and (in general) is trying to do way too much.

It's a train wreck. With brief glimpses of brilliance.

lolwut that makes no sense too many periods and punctu puncta too many periods wut do u know anyway ur just wwefanboi trash tna rox n impact iz awesome hater

Ow, hurt my head just typing that.

Anyway, this is a very good point. It seems that while the 'E is content to go with their proven draws, TNA by contrast is just throwing lots of poop on the wall to see what sticks. Eventually that timeslot is going to resemble a monkey cage (if it doesn't already). But on the bright side, with how...brown and soft most of the show is, the good segments shine even brighter.

That said, be right back. I'd heard that lives were on sale and apparently, I need to get one. :rolleyes:

[Daffanka]

Other than some of the talent, how exactly is TNA similar to WCW? I keep hearing this but I have yet to hear a solid explanation other than just the talent being used.

Classic nonsensical Russo booking, young talent being pushed down in favor of old guys no one wants to see, HOGAN, abandoning what made the company stand out as an alternative to WWE/F to become a parody of it, etc.

[justtxyank]

I don't think the majority of people who say TNA is like WCW actually watched WCW. They aren't really similar at all to be honest.

As for TNA, I hate it. I want to like it because I can't stand the E and TNA has a lot of people I like but...I just can't. I DVRd it last night and I could barely stomach watching it.

1) The Nasty Boys need to be off tv. I gave TNA the benefit of the doubt with them, but it's awful. They can't wrestle, the crowd hates them, the IWC hates them, and to top it off, they are actually WINNING their matches. It's a joke. I do love Jimmy Hart and wouldn't really be opposed to him being back at ringside, but not with the Nasties.

2) Look, Ric Flair is a legend. Even though he appears to be a pretty bad human being, he's a great in the business. But dude...it's time. It was a time a long time ago. He's an old man, and he looks older than he is. Watching him gushing blood last night was disturbing. At first it was kind of cool, but then I thought, man, are they sure Flair isn't going to die out there? Having him as a manager is great, but it needs to be more like Harley Race with Vader as opposed to Flair with Evolution. As crazy at it sounds, Evolution was nearly a decade ago.

3) I like Hulk Hogan. I really do. I think him as an authority figure has a lot of potential. GET HIM OFF MY TELEVISION! I'm already burnt out on Hogan. Every story has to involve Hogan in some way and he ends up taking away from them. It's awful. I'm tired of him getting so much air time and having his hand in every matter.

4) Yawn. Wake me up when Foley/Jarrett/Bischoff is over. Jarrett has never been over with anyone other than TNA faithful who thank him for giving them the company. He was a good heel midcard act, never anything more than that. Foley reminds me of later WCW Roddy Piper. Entertaining when given in small doses, but way overexposed. When do we get a Foley vs Bischoff with Jarrett on a pole match?

5) I love Rob Van Dam and Sting. I will keep DVRing TNA if only to see RVD and Sting. I hope they get a chance to work a real feud that isn't centered around whether Hogan is going to come back to the ring again. Get Hogan out of that feud and let Sting and RVD work together. This is a dream match for me as they are two of my favorite wrestlers ever.

6) When will Abyss start carrying a bunny rabbit to the ring? And shouldn't he be going by Ssyba? This is pure wrestlecrap. It was wrestlecrap when Dave Sullivan did the exact same stupid stuff, but it worked then as it was a different era. The Abyss character is almost as ruined as Kane. Almost.

7) I hate Jeff Hardy using the face paint.

8) At least the X-Division still looks cool. I guess as long as they get their 10 minutes once a week TNA can still claim to have something different.

9) Turn Scott Hall into an announcer and never let him wrestle again. Sean Waltman on the other hand still has ring time left in him.

10) Seems like TNA is going to give me at least 45 minutes of some combination of Hogan/Flair/Bischoff every week. Unfortunately for them this will guarantee that I will never watch the show live because I can't stomach TNA without my DVR fast forward button.

[mizzou24]

well atleast the nasty boys looked better than flair in the ring, god his chair shot to abyss last night were awful lol. I don't agree with taking hogan and bischoff off the show completely as they both could be great authority figures. But, they really do need to stop using hogan and flair in the ring i will agree with that. It really makes you sad to see guys like that in the ring these days. I will say that they did some what cut it down from last week. I really hope they can get things right within this next six months or so because they have so much young potential in that business and could really make things happen if they would use it to it's best. If not they are gonna run out of these veterans and have no young potential to keep them at the top. I am sure Hogan, bischoff, Russo, and others dont wanna repeat what they did before. I am gonna give them a chance and keep watching. I am really pulling for them to turn it around. And please god get them out of the impact zone.. It will make them look so much better if they do.

[Stennick]

AJ cut a good promo, he stammered a bit and had some ackward pauses but he wasn't horrible and sounded as good as most of the WWE scripted guys. Flair started out making no sense and somehow pulled it back in. I liked the "you see this, you wanna play here, expect to get this EVERY day of your life".

Wasn't AJ vs. Hardy already advertised? So why did AJ challenge him in the ring and then why did the announcers sound shocked by this challenge? Was this not common knowledge in the advertising that this match was happening? Also AJ would do better if Flair didn't interupt AJ every time. Also Flair talking about Hardy "getting high". Hardy having "creatures of the night" isn't that what Taker's fans were called?

Before "the takeover" Jesse Neals new direction was one of the best things going. The Rhyno, 3D stable was actually interesting. Now Jimmy Hart is in there, Brother Runt, these guys are seriously blowing money out the window here. Wow Jimmy Hart just got a pinfall. Hasn't this "feud" been going on since the first week Hogan came on board? Are Team 3D in Japan mostly and just kinda show up every few weeks to get jobbed out to the Nasties?

Is Hemme really getting paid more than most of these women to hold a mic? Hemme has a lot of charisma but to just hold a mic?

This show was so good about not cluttering itself up and then this X Division crazyness happened. Are the Machine Guns heel now? They love to do these faces acting like heels. Geneartion ME look very bland compared to the Machine Guns.

The rest of the show was in good order. The ending was good with Abyss slamming Flair into the ramp while AJ looked on in fear.

I don't know which show was better and I can't believe I'm saying this but I really felt like they were on equal ground for the first time last night. Keep this up TNA and I'll keep watching.

[justtxyank]

Where is Rhyno? I always really enjoyed his intensity.

[Remianen]

I wholeheartedly agree with justtxyank's assessment. Well, except for the Sean Waltman part. Yes, he can probably still wrestle. But to me, he is as entertaining as medbay duty after a port call to the Philippines. It's like watching another guy get kicked in the junk. While it's not quite as bad as getting kicked yourself, it's not a 'OMG rewind that, bro. I wanna see it again!' type of event either.

Personally, I don't care how much I like their other workers (what other workers? EXACTLY!), I dislike 45 mins of Hogan/Bischoff/the Nasty Boys/Flair bleeding far more.

[Self]

This show was so good about not cluttering itself up and then this X Division crazyness happened. Are the Machine Guns heel now? They love to do these faces acting like heels. Geneartion ME look very bland compared to the Machine Guns.

I think the Machine Guns have been 'heels' for a couple of months now. Which is completely ridiculous, because they're two of the most over home-grown babyfaces they have. The reason no one seems to have noticed is that the MCMG either don't know how to wrestle as heels, or they simply don't want to. They do their spots. Get their pops. Whenever they act ****y (boo hiss) they do so in a funny, entertaining, babyface way. It reminds me of the last Sting heel turn, where he (allegedly) purposefully sabotaged the turn by going off script a lot and playing babyface.

In other news, I watched the RVD/Sting thing in last week's Impact, and I was floored by the pop RVD got. MASSIVE. I knew the guy was over, but man alive!

[Eisen-verse]

One thing about last night show that I really like is AJ Styles' new persona with Ric Flair. Sure, Flair kinda overshadows the guy but he really fits in well with this arrogant, "I'm the Champ"!, Ric Flair-esque kind of character. Sure, there are times where he seems like he isn't really "checked in" or goes to speak & you don't believe what he's saying really... BUT... I like this character ten times more than the bumbling idiot persona that once gave him.

I especially loved the fact that he held off on a high spot that would certainly get the crowd behind him slightly. It was perfect heel genius.

[Tag01]

I especially loved the fact that he held off on a high spot that would certainly get the crowd behind him slightly. It was perfect heel genius.

One of the better moves they made with him. That's the best way they're going to turn him truly heel.

[Hyde Hill]

And an other unbalanced Impact this week, what a surprise lolz.

Bad stuff so far:
the Nasties. Morley and OJ. Hogan, EB, Jarrett, Foley getting too much screen time. Going overboard with AJ becoming Flair and Abyss becoming Hogan and the magic ring. Too much Hall and X-Pac. Not enough time given to matches. Either do a squash or storyline match or at least give them 5 minutes. Daniels push down. Bubba and the plants. The Kong incident.

Good:
Rest of the stories etc have been very interesting and entertaining though imho. Plus the pacing and presentation have gotten better. Instead of cramming 3 hours into 2 hours its now 2 and a half hours lolz. Still long ways off to realizing their full potential. RVD and Jeff Hardy!

Too much bad stuff that overshadows the good stuff making the net balance 0. (Again.)

[Eisen-verse]

I'm thinking the Nasties are in TNA only because of Hogan's involvement. With a friendship with one (can't remember his name; the blonde one), I'm guessing it was part of his demands when he signed on with the company. I'm positive of that. Would explain how much TV time they're getting & the overall focus they've found.

With that said, I don't have any problems with them. Sure, they're annoying. Yes, they can't wrestle much anymore BUT they can be used as a great tag team. It would just be better if they were just another tag team in the division versus one that's getting more focus than anyone else. If booked right, they could be complimentary.

The one thing I'd like to see go is Hall and Waltman; which kills me to say. I use to be a HUGE fan of these guys back in the day but come on... Waltman's "degenerate" attitude is getting really stale & actually seems crazily forced. Plus, it doesn't resonate anymore as we've seen it from him for like a decade now. Not so "shocking" anymore. Now just looks senselessly crude.

Hall, for another reason, The guy really can't work on a high level anymore. I would pay to see an X-Division match over his involvement on screen anyday.

As for Hogan/Abyss....

All of Hogan's trademark taunts, phrases, and movements look STUPID on anyone but him. haha. I like Abyss. I really do. However, this pseudo-Hogan thing is really making me dislike the guy.

[Hyde Hill]

I would have been fine if paying the Nasties and giving them screen time came with the deal but then why not make them Hogan's bodyguards or hell make em part of the weak ass security team. Not even as one of the tag teams do they ad anything to the table. They simply take away time.

[jesterx7769]

Has anyone called the cops for Samoa Joe? This is the biggest slap in the face to me, worse than the Nastys since at least that's explainable (they double team Hogan's balls)

Show was good over all. May do a review thing later.

[Slagaholic]

Classic nonsensical Russo booking, young talent being pushed down in favor of old guys no one wants to see, HOGAN, abandoning what made the company stand out as an alternative to WWE/F to become a parody of it, etc.

Any original thoughts pray tell?

[Daffanka]

Any original thoughts pray tell?

TNA sucks and is wasting a huge opportunity. Their death will dissuade other companies to go head to head with WWE and Vince will lean back in his rocking chair and produce a mediocre product, like he always does when he gets complacent.

If TNA was competently run we could potentially see a return of the Monday night wars in a few years time which could regain the audience lost in the Invasion and improve wrestling as a whole, since WWE always gets better when Vince is under pressure.

but that won't happen because they're WCW 2.0

this is why I don't like tna

[Slagaholic]

TNA sucks and is wasting a huge opportunity. Their death will dissuade other companies to go head to head with WWE and Vince will lean back in his rocking chair and produce a mediocre product, like he always does when he gets complacent.

If TNA was competently run we could potentially see a return of the Monday night wars in a few years time which could regain the audience lost in the Invasion and improve wrestling as a whole, since WWE always gets better when Vince is under pressure.

but that won't happen because they're WCW 2.0

this is why I don't like tna
You're mad if you think there will be a return of the Monday Night Wars a mere 10 years after the first one. The popularity of Wrestling has been cut in half since the original Monday Night Wars, those fans won't come back overnight.

How exactly do you expect TNA to get that fanbase they'd get "if they were run competently" without having faces that older fans recognized? The IWC is a minority of wrestling fandom (as much as we hate to admit). A company that would try to cater to the IWC on a national level would go out of business in less than a year. TNA has been on national TV for about 5 now.

You expect new fans to be drawn back to into wrestling simply by good in ring action? That's insanity. You need names and you need old faces to go along with the new ones. What do you want TNA to do? Fire everyone that at some point worked for WCW/WWE?

You keep saying they're WCW 2.0 but all I'm hearing is that you don't like Russo and you're tired of Hogan. Awesome. That doesn't make TNA WCW 2.0.

[Remianen]

Any original thoughts pray tell?

Water is wet. Oh wait, that's not an original thought either. Lemme try again.

On Earth, what goes up, must come down. No, that doesn't fit either.

An object in motion tends to stay in motion. Crap, not that either.

Point is, stating the truth doesn't have to be 'new' and 'original'. What Daffanka said is true. Young talent is being tossed aside so the old has beens (or never weres, in the case of the Nasty Boys) get tons of screen time. The booking, with only a few exceptions, is nonsensical in that it's like a 10+ car pileup on the freeway. And the one thing that truly separated TNA from WWE's product (the X DIVISION) is largely an afterthought. I remember a time when AJ and Daniels and others were HEADLINING TNA via their match quality (not necessarily their push). I remember not so long ago when they made it seem like the biggest star on the roster WANTED the X-Division title (and held it for a little bit). I remember when they signed a big name and immediately put that big name in a program with their young talent (hi2u Angle-Joe). Now, they take their monster heel and turn him into complete garbage. They put their tag titles on a pair of singles wrestlers and immediately go about breaking them up (because apparently the fact that they were IN the main event prior to the regime change means nothing so they need to step aside to make room for.....Hogan and his cronies?).

Seriously, dispute what Daffanka said. Can you honestly say that TNA's young talent is better off today? That their booking has improved a great deal? That they aren't showcasing the stars of yesteryear? While I won't say TNA is WCW 2.0 (remember, WCW actually BEAT WWE and they were equals for a time), I see the same pattern occurring here that occurred there. Oddly enough, many of the same people are involved too. Personally, I don't give a flip whether it's Russo or Dutch or Jarrett or Hogan or Bischoff responsible for it. Bottom line is, it's frustrating to even watch seeing so much talent going to waste. What annoys me a lot is how the arrival of Hogan and his posse has led to the loss of at least two of the most talented Knockouts on the roster (including the ONLY monster heel). So now you're pretty much left with 'Divas South' since the same situation exists in Orlando that does in Connecticut: two titles and not enough TALENT (let's not even get into airtime) to support them.

[djthefunkchris]

I really think most of you are getting too "OLD" to watch wrestling anymore, lol.

I didn't get a chance to watch the show, and won't be able to watch much on TV till after the next couple of weeks (work).

On the topic at hand I have a few opinions though.

Flair/AJ Styles. I just can't imagine AJ being a better heal then he is right now. I just can't imagine him getting that much heat on his own. I think Flair and him is a perfect combination for this, and the passing of the torch is going well.

I don't see Abyss ever really being on a Hogan Level. I think that was a bad pick, but I do think this has something to do with Foley. I hate being smarky with these things, but I can't help to think that Foley finally found someone that would listen to his idea's, and Abyss is part of it.

I also believe it's Foley's idea to put Hogan in the ring (and Flair for that matter). I mean... Look who else he has suggested getting in the ring in the past when ECWWE opened up. Of course, I don't see either of them giving him any problem with that idea... probably "Wow! that's a great idea Mick!"

Abyss is a good monster, but he's never been on the level he should be. Hopefully he goes nuts after this, or drops it all together. Either way, I think he is going to gain more in the way of stability, then he ever would have on his own.

The Nasties.... I don't care one way or the other why they are there. I know it has to be Hogan's idea obviously, but my concern is on how they will be used. They are not "Kids" which is good, but they are older. I think they need to be used in feuds to help establish tag teams that might need improving in area's other then in ring skill. It would benefit TNA alot if they can get everyone "Feeling" as if they are grown men, and not boys just on the verge of being men (As the WWE had not so long ago). In that way I think TNA can benefit even with someone like the Nasties.

Samoa Joe not being around... I don't understand it myself. It's almost as if Joe is in trouble, and they don't want to get him involved untill they find out what goes down. OR, they are just missing the boat with this guy. Samoa Joe may never be the big Main Eventer that most think he should be, but he definately has all the abilities to make a great character to build storylines and title's around. No matter if it's midcard or main event titles, he is able to always look like a threat, and he's a natural fan favorite, that doesn't need to benefit from Hogan or Flair.

Styles is going to be huge though.... He's being natured, and he is learning. You get him to be able to do great promo's, and with his in ring ability I just can't see where you can go wrong with this guy.

[sebsplex]

Where is Rhyno? I always really enjoyed his intensity.

He appeared a couple of weeks ago as one of Bischoff's hired guns (along with Raven who's been used as much) in the teased unmasking of Abyss, before Hogan came out. I think that's the only time I've seen him since Hogan arrived.

Jeff Hardy going over the champ? Styles is playing the Flair-chicken**** heel. It doesn't matter if he loses in a non-title match up. He's suppose to be a guy that can be beat but somehow always seems to get away because the hero can catch him.

This is what bugs me about the Styles push. I get what he's supposed to be, I just struggle to get over the fact that I don't see any reason for him to be playing that character. Even when Hogan arrived, Styles was going over the likes of Angle clean, prior to that Daniels and then Joe/Daniels. Other than Flair just arriving and saying AJ's fine to be his protege, there was nothing to trigger the turn, no reason. It's so difficult to get into AJ as that kind of heel, when he wasn't struggling to defend his title. Even a match or two where he struggled, or Flair watched him lose a non-title match... that would have done. They could have even used the fact that AJ only 'escaped' the ankle-lock in that match with Angle months ago on Impact when the time limit expired. Then Flair starts providing AJ with shortcuts, that's fine, but it should feel more like AJ's using them because he wants to rather than because he is instantly unable to defeat anyone without cheating. Then in time, the fact that he's played dirty for so long means that he struggles to actually outwrestle guys one on one. The key word though is time, and for some reason TNA still seem to want to tell a 2 hour story in about 20 seconds. It's a good story, but the execution... so rushed, it feels incomplete and less effective.

[djthefunkchris]

Water is wet. Oh wait, that's not an original thought either. Lemme try again.

On Earth, what goes up, must come down. No, that doesn't fit either.

An object in motion tends to stay in motion. Crap, not that either.

Point is, stating the truth doesn't have to be 'new' and 'original'. What Daffanka said is true. Young talent is being tossed aside so the old has beens (or never weres, in the case of the Nasty Boys) get tons of screen time. The booking, with only a few exceptions, is nonsensical in that it's like a 10+ car pileup on the freeway. And the one thing that truly separated TNA from WWE's product (the X DIVISION) is largely an afterthought. I remember a time when AJ and Daniels and others were HEADLINING TNA via their match quality (not necessarily their push). I remember not so long ago when they made it seem like the biggest star on the roster WANTED the X-Division title (and held it for a little bit). I remember when they signed a big name and immediately put that big name in a program with their young talent (hi2u Angle-Joe). Now, they take their monster heel and turn him into complete garbage. They put their tag titles on a pair of singles wrestlers and immediately go about breaking them up (because apparently the fact that they were IN the main event prior to the regime change means nothing so they need to step aside to make room for.....Hogan and his cronies?).

Seriously, dispute what Daffanka said. Can you honestly say that TNA's young talent is better off today? That their booking has improved a great deal? That they aren't showcasing the stars of yesteryear? While I won't say TNA is WCW 2.0 (remember, WCW actually BEAT WWE and they were equals for a time), I see the same pattern occurring here that occurred there. Oddly enough, many of the same people are involved too. Personally, I don't give a flip whether it's Russo or Dutch or Jarrett or Hogan or Bischoff responsible for it. Bottom line is, it's frustrating to even watch seeing so much talent going to waste. What annoys me a lot is how the arrival of Hogan and his posse has led to the loss of at least two of the most talented Knockouts on the roster (including the ONLY monster heel). So now you're pretty much left with 'Divas South' since the same situation exists in Orlando that does in Connecticut: two titles and not enough TALENT (let's not even get into airtime) to support them.

These were all things that they were doing before Hogan/Flair, etc. arrived though. Everytime anyone with any popularity come on TNA, they were thrown up against the top of TNA, making TNA look like the "weaker" one in my opinion.

The train wreck makes more sense now, then it did for years. It's not good, but it's definately an improvement. You actually see match's have an ending on TV now, where before I guess it was only at the PPV's. Title's are defended on TV now, where before only at PPV (although I haven't seen them switch hands on TV, which I don't mind).

I'm just saying, you can blame it on any one of the people you mentioned, but you can't blame it on them when they were NOT even in the company.

[Daffanka]

I want TNA to provide a solid alternative to WWE.

This means don't hire people over 50, this means growing your own stars (of which you have tons) and it means putting on solid action.

They probably can't restart the wars in just a few years, no. But they can certainly grow and become a credible threat if they start pushing guys like Pope or Anderson who started really shining outside of WWE. Or ROH acquisitions like Joe, McGuinness and The Young Bucks who could bring the house down if they were allowed to wrestle.

And I actually said that they were late era WCW 2.0 because they put on god awful storylines and make us watch old people while they're sitting on a goldmine of future stars. Hogan and Russo (and Bischoff!) just happen to be there in both cases.

[sebsplex]

These were all things that they were doing before Hogan/Flair, etc. arrived though. Everytime anyone with any popularity come on TNA, they were thrown up against the top of TNA, making TNA look like the "weaker" one in my opinion.

Were they? There are probably examples to the contrary, but looking at a few of the bigger acquisitions...

Bobby Lashley - Debuted by just appearing and staring. Teased involvement with the MEM (which made sense given the groups status on shows/booking), but pretty soon he was feuding with Scott Steiner although he then won a title shot tournament that was never mentioned again the following week before he was released.

Booker T - Debuted as a ppv mystery partner (made sense to generate ppv interest that a big star was appearing), but then went straight into a feud with Roode (midcarder at the time) which was actually based on Roode being adverse to big names coming in and jumping straight ahead of the established TNA roster in the ranking stakes.

Kurt Angle - As mentioned, was soon feuding with Joe who if anything, was only damaged by the fact that his momentum stalled afterwards, especially following the title win in the 'MMA' match.

Mick Foley - Debuted as a mainly off-screen character and hasn't exactly been put over established talent left and right.

Whereas now...

Orlando Jordan - Already has wins over Joe and the Pope (Joe's was part storyline, but again that quickly went out the window as he suddenly turned face in order to compete against AJ).

Sean Morley - Goes over Daniels who had been main eventing only a month or so earlier... then doesn't appear on TV again for weeks.

Nasty Boys - Already over Team 3D in a feud that shows no sign of getting better and one where I don't really see how Team 3D are going to look any better if/when they go over them. They also went over someone else on Impact, although the match was so forgettable, I don't recall who.

Whether they're good booking decisions is going to be down to opinion, but I can't really see how it can be argued that that TNA were making their current stars look any weaker compared to new arrivals prior to 'the Hogan era'. I've got no problem with RVD, Anderson, etc getting big early wins, but some of these guys are getting fed victories seemingly without a second thought on where anyone involved goes next.

[jesterx7769]

Instead of posting my review of the show here like I have been doing I decided to create a blog thing where I will just post the link and show score (I actually created a system now) for anyone that cares. Agree, disagree, think I'm smart, think I'm an idiot, it's all the same to me, I just like recapping the shows.

http://jestertna.blogspot.com/2010/03/tna-impact-315-hogans-heroes.html

Show Score: 35 out of 55, 63%

[djthefunkchris]

Were they? There are probably examples to the contrary, but looking at a few of the bigger acquisitions...

Bobby Lashley - Debuted by just appearing and staring. Teased involvement with the MEM (which made sense given the groups status on shows/booking), but pretty soon he was feuding with Scott Steiner although he then won a title shot tournament that was never mentioned again the following week before he was released.

Booker T - Debuted as a ppv mystery partner (made sense to generate ppv interest that a big star was appearing), but then went straight into a feud with Roode (midcarder at the time) which was actually based on Roode being adverse to big names coming in and jumping straight ahead of the established TNA roster in the ranking stakes.

Kurt Angle - As mentioned, was soon feuding with Joe who if anything, was only damaged by the fact that his momentum stalled afterwards, especially following the title win in the 'MMA' match.

Mick Foley - Debuted as a mainly off-screen character and hasn't exactly been put over established talent left and right.

Whereas now...

Orlando Jordan - Already has wins over Joe and the Pope (Joe's was part storyline, but again that quickly went out the window as he suddenly turned face in order to compete against AJ).

Sean Morley - Goes over Daniels who had been main eventing only a month or so earlier... then doesn't appear on TV again for weeks.

Nasty Boys - Already over Team 3D in a feud that shows no sign of getting better and one where I don't really see how Team 3D are going to look any better if/when they go over them. They also went over someone else on Impact, although the match was so forgettable, I don't recall who.

Whether they're good booking decisions is going to be down to opinion, but I can't really see how it can be argued that that TNA were making their current stars look any weaker compared to new arrivals prior to 'the Hogan era'. I've got no problem with RVD, Anderson, etc getting big early wins, but some of these guys are getting fed victories seemingly without a second thought on where anyone involved goes next.

Team 3D, Daniels aren't what I would call Main Eventers, even by TNA standards. Nor are either what I would call "Young TNA stars".

I can understand the Joe problem, and I agree, I didn't like that at all. However, as you said it seemed to be part of a storyline that ended, or went another direction. Something they have a record doing anyways.

I really don't see Orlando as being such an old sod to be honest (not like the Nastys, Hogan and Flair anyways). Pluss, he's been away from WWE long enough not to be even considered an Ex-WWE star. Giving him a ball and letting him run a little doesn't really get under my nerves that much, outside of the fact I have never liked the guy, no matter what character he portrays. I just don't see any talent there outside of in the ring, which I don't really consider to be much either. I'm going to give you that one.

All the examples you gave are pretty much similar to the ones you gave to "Proove me wrong" though. You gave example's of your case for now, that are exactly the same as the case you provided against them doing that.

And the train wreck booking has improved. It's not solid, nor do I think it will ever be, at least not anytime soon. But it is not as bad.

Of course, that's just my observations, and my unique opinion on the matter. You will probably have alot more support for your opinion, but we will have to just agree to dissagree on this subject, at least for now. I might be persuaded at a later date, after some better example's are given or they do exactly what you said they do.

[sebsplex]

Team 3D, Daniels aren't what I would call Main Eventers, even by TNA standards. Nor are either what I would call "Young TNA stars".

I can understand the Joe problem, and I agree, I didn't like that at all. However, as you said it seemed to be part of a storyline that ended, or went another direction. Something they have a record doing anyways.

I really don't see Orlando as being such an old sod to be honest (not like the Nastys, Hogan and Flair anyways). Pluss, he's been away from WWE long enough not to be even considered an Ex-WWE star. Giving him a ball and letting him run a little doesn't really get under my nerves that much, outside of the fact I have never liked the guy, no matter what character he portrays. I just don't see any talent there outside of in the ring, which I don't really consider to be much either. I'm going to give you that one.

All the examples you gave are pretty much similar to the ones you gave to "Proove me wrong" though. You gave example's of your case for now, that are exactly the same as the case you provided against them doing that.

Apart from having singles pushes a good while ago when they were considered as wrestlers credible enough to feature in a World Title match, no Team 3D are basically gatekeepers to the tag team division. Daniels however had main evented the previous two ppvs and alongside AJ Styles, is one of the first names people seem to associate with TNA... meaning that beating him is far more significant than say, defeating James Storm.

Maybe we're not quite on the same subject, but I just don't see how putting previous new arrivals in programmes with midcarders and putting others over somehow makes the TNA roster look weaker compared to recent arrivals who have been going over former champions, current champions, #1 contenders, etc left right and centre, which is what you seemed to be suggesting.

[Self]

Ratings seem to be in.

RAW - 3.7
Impact - 0.8

Going up against Austin was always going to be tough, and these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[SaySo]

0.87 Flair, Styles, Hardy talk in the ring, Foley and Bischoff talk backstage.

0.85 Clip of Nasty Boys beating on Neal, Nasty Boys vs Team 3D, Angelina Love interview backstage, Hall and Pac interview backstage Nash/Young arrive and talk.

0.82 Anderson/Wolfe vs Angle/Pope, Hogan/Hardy/RVD/Bischoff talk backstage.

0.96 Love vs Daffney with The Beautiful People by the ring Tara gets involved, Hogan in the ring talking and calls out Sting who while coming to the ring gets jumped by RVD.

0.93 Ending of the Hogan/Sting/RVD segment in the ring when Bischoff ends it, Hernandez/Jarrett/Bischoff talk backstage, Hall vs Nash with Pac and Young getting involved.

0.82 Beer Money interview backstage, Hernandez vs Beer Money with Jarrett refereeing and Morgan on commentary.

0.81 Foley/Bischoff haircut segment, Shannon Moore interview backstage, x-division segment in the ring featuring Motor city guns/Generation Me/Amazing Red/Kendrick/Kaz/Daniels.

0.72 Abyss interview backstage, Hardy vs Styles with Abyss as enforcer.

0.74 Q9 Overrun: Hardy vs Styles, after match Flair swings a chair then Abyss slams Flair throught ramp.

[Daffanka]

Wow... any chance of Spike letting TNA run on mondays still? They're not even hitting their usual 1.1 like this.

[jesterx7769]

I think the real issue for TNA is there are no Thursday replays scheduled for the next few weeks so the excuse of people watching RAW then Impact on Thursday doesn't work and could cost them some viewership. Also the DVR thing will undoubtly get kicked around but people DVR lots of shows and a big part of DVR is skipping commericals which the sponsors don't like so they cant say sure only .8 (just cuz its the most recent) but 2.0 would have been the rating if people didnt DVR it and I'm sure those people didnt skip your commercials!

There will be excuses every week but there ratings weren't special on Thursday and its of course to early to judge the long term on Monday but no matter what they are going to have to draw. Austin is an excuse, WWE to WM is an excuse, summertime and people outside is an excuse, baseball season starting is an excuse, Monday night football is an excuse, they go year round.

[Tag01]

Too soon to pull the plug. Way too soon. Just let it play out. If they haven't gained any ground 6 months from now they can start worrying.

[Hyde Hill]

Wasn't AJ vs. Hardy already advertised? So why did AJ challenge him in the ring and then why did the announcers sound shocked by this challenge? Was this not common knowledge in the advertising that this match was happening? Also AJ would do better if Flair didn't interupt AJ every time. Also Flair talking about Hardy "getting high". Hardy having "creatures of the night" isn't that what Taker's fans were called?

It wasn't advertised to the masses so to speak they just released it on facebook. And yeah creatures of the night is/was takers thing so I thought that was weird.

[Hyde Hill]

TNA sucks and is wasting a huge opportunity. Their death will dissuade other companies to go head to head with WWE and Vince will lean back in his rocking chair and produce a mediocre product, like he always does when he gets complacent.

If TNA was competently run we could potentially see a return of the Monday night wars in a few years time which could regain the audience lost in the Invasion and improve wrestling as a whole, since WWE always gets better when Vince is under pressure.

but that won't happen because they're WCW 2.0

this is why I don't like tna

They won't die unless the Carters aren't interested anymore. They make a profit and pull in decent enough ratings also Panda Energy is worth a lot more then the WWE.

[Hyde Hill]

0.87 Flair, Styles, Hardy talk in the ring, Foley and Bischoff talk backstage.

0.85 Clip of Nasty Boys beating on Neal, Nasty Boys vs Team 3D, Angelina Love interview backstage, Hall and Pac interview backstage Nash/Young arrive and talk.

0.82 Anderson/Wolfe vs Angle/Pope, Hogan/Hardy/RVD/Bischoff talk backstage.

0.96 Love vs Daffney with The Beautiful People by the ring Tara gets involved, Hogan in the ring talking and calls out Sting who while coming to the ring gets jumped by RVD.

0.93 Ending of the Hogan/Sting/RVD segment in the ring when Bischoff ends it, Hernandez/Jarrett/Bischoff talk backstage, Hall vs Nash with Pac and Young getting involved.

0.82 Beer Money interview backstage, Hernandez vs Beer Money with Jarrett refereeing and Morgan on commentary.

0.81 Foley/Bischoff haircut segment, Shannon Moore interview backstage, x-division segment in the ring featuring Motor city guns/Generation Me/Amazing Red/Kendrick/Kaz/Daniels.

0.72 Abyss interview backstage, Hardy vs Styles with Abyss as enforcer.

0.74 Q9 Overrun: Hardy vs Styles, after match Flair swings a chair then Abyss slams Flair throught ramp.

Damn what is with the ME scoring so low. People seriously preferred to see a contract signing over AJ vs Hardy? Bad rating but kinda expected with Stone Cold around still also seems the TNA faithful so to speak are turning their backs.

[PeterHilton]

UPDATED: WWE Raw and TNA Impact Ratings
Posted by Larry Csonka on 03.16.2010

Lots of new ratings details in including how AJ Styles vs. Jeff Hardy did...

UPDATED: RAW did a 3.71 rating last night off hours of 3.68 and 3.73 and averaged 5.60 million viewers, an overall increase of 10% in viewership from last week. RAW's first hour (which drew 5.57 million viewers) was the most viewed first hour since August 4th, 2009, while hour two (5.63 million viewers) was the most viewed second hour since the January 4th RAW.

Impact did a .84 rating off hours of .88 and .80 and averaged 1.1 million viewers, an overall decrease of 21.4% in viewership from last week. Impact opened with a .84. In a very troubling sign for TNA, the AJ Styles vs. Jeff Hardy main event was the lowest rated segment of the entire show with a .72 with the overrun doing a .74.

Credit: PWTorch

i said this the last time I made a post about their ratings: NO ONE IS GETTING OVER

Not the old guys. Not the young guys. No one.

And that -more than anything - is the sign of terrible writing and terrible booking.

You can sit here and debate how the Nasty Boys are 'big names' that fans can recognize or how the 'young guys are being featured' or how 'EB is a genius and knows more about wrestling that you internet fans' or how 'AJ is a great heel now' all you want...

TNA is losing their viewers. Period.

What they're doing isn't working. Period.

And as a someone who has tuned in semi-regularly for the last few years, I have zero faith in this creative team that they are going to figure out that 'less is more' anytime soon.

Man for man, I truly believe TNA has the more talented roster, but most weeks Impact is a dumpster fire.

I don't care if it's not original. I don't care if people are tired of hearing it. You don't even have to compare TNA to the WWE. They are not doing well, even if you are comparing them to their own ratings from a few months back.

TNA is losing their viewers. Period.

What they're doing isn't working. Period.

[justtxyank]

I think TNA's problem is they are not grabbing any new audience right now. They have to hope that as time goes on they grab new fans because right now it seems their base hasn't expanded in a long time. It just ebbs and flows.

To me the largest problem facing TNA is that this is not the 90s. Wrestling is not cool or hip. Very few people who aren't socially awkward are willing to talk about wrestling anymore. It has lost the mainstream appeal it used to have. The market that exists is really not a rabid fanbase, it's just a fanbase. I mean good luck getting WWE fans to switch over to TNA when they barely care beyond the surface about WWE!

I think there is this myth that there is this huge audience out there not being catered to, the audience that loved WCW and/or ECW. I just don't believe that to be the case. That audience is gone.

[Hyde Hill]

Not debating the mainstream appeal, but what also really hurt was the bad booking following the Jan 4th show. They kept losing and losing the gained audience week by week. For every improvement they are doing bad stuff as well. How the hell can Hogan, Bischoff and Russo collectively book so bad? Well lets hope that if this experiment fails Dixie finally turns it over to Heyman. If he fails a "new" guy should be given the opportunity.

[PeterHilton]

Damn what is with the ME scoring so low. People seriously preferred to see a contract signing over AJ vs Hardy? Bad rating but kinda expected with Stone Cold around still also seems the TNA faithful so to speak are turning their backs.

Hyde..that's a bad assumption. it's not that viewers CHOSE Hart/McMahon over AJ/Hardy it's that that segments leading into the main event didn't give them any reason to stay tuned.

And going back..was there any reason to believe that match would be given proper time, or end without some kind of intereference? The one thing WCW proved is that bad booking eventually does drive viewers away.

So that even when good stuff happens, no one is willing to have faith and stay tuned.

[justtxyank]

Not debating the mainstream appeal, but what also really hurt was the bad booking following the Jan 4th show. They kept losing and losing the gained audience week by week. For every improvement they are doing bad stuff as well. How the hell can Hogan, Bischoff and Russo collectively book so bad? Well lets hope that if this experiment fails Dixie finally turns it over to Heyman. If he fails a "new" guy should be given the opportunity.

Well let's be honest here. Hogan has made a fundamental mistake. His run in the E was awesome when he returned, largely because he was given in limited doses. WCW taught us that Hogan was played out as a heel and a face. He just couldn't carry a show anymore. He still had relevance and people still liked him, they just didn't care to see him as their focus. I foolishly believed that HOgan was going to come to TNA and play an authority role and limit himself. Instead he's been the entire focus of the company, involved in nearly every storyline. That makes it hard to get any enjoyment out of the show. It makes the RVD vs Sting storyline that is about to happen worthless to me because it's going to be all about Hogan.

UGH!

[GatorBait19]

to me TNA has gone away from what made it big

using smaller names to build the company (AJ, Jay Lethal, Shelly, Sabin) and gone to more hey we need the big names to survive this

They got rid of the 6 sided ring which I always thought if they were going to compete with WWE it would make a difference (some many fans are use to the 4 sided ring, 6 was something new to them)

finally Vince Russo doesn't seem like a man who kills companies, it's truly Bischoff lol sorry had to


Also one other thing I have always liked about the WWE is that they create their own starts (sure their guys might start in a smaller company) but they have always been able to find talent no one else wanted

Austin (WCW did want him) Triple H, Cena, HBK, Taker.

And they also have been able to push guys other companies can't

Rey, Eddie, Chris B, Chris Jericho, etc

[justtxyank]

Austin (WCW did want him) Triple H, Cena, HBK, Taker.

And they also have been able to push guys other companies can't

Rey, Eddie, Chris B, Chris Jericho, etc

This is completely bogus.

There was really only WWE when Cena came around so there was nobody else to NOT want him. WCW wanted HBK when he left the AWA and tried to get him from the WWF on multiple occassions. WCW liked Mark Callous and wanted to keep him, but they never thought about the Undertaker gimmick which is obviously a very gimmicky niche gimmick.

As for Rey, he was huge in WCW. Benoit really never got any more run in the WWF than he did in WCW, Eddie didn't get to the top in the E for years after jumping ship.

Edit: The E has been better at creating stars because they have more brand power and better production values than the other companies. They've also been incredibly lucky with gimmicks sticking.

[Bigpapa42]

Well let's be honest here. Hogan has made a fundamental mistake. His run in the E was awesome when he returned, largely because he was given in limited doses. WCW taught us that Hogan was played out as a heel and a face. He just couldn't carry a show anymore. He still had relevance and people still liked him, they just didn't care to see him as their focus. I foolishly believed that HOgan was going to come to TNA and play an authority role and limit himself. Instead he's been the entire focus of the company, involved in nearly every storyline. That makes it hard to get any enjoyment out of the show. It makes the RVD vs Sting storyline that is about to happen worthless to me because it's going to be all about Hogan.

UGH!

That's what I was worried about as soon as I heard Hogan was joining TNA. Fans talked about him being a great promoter, but he's really only been a self-promoter. Hogan has had a great career and done a fantastic job of keeping himself relevant and at the front of the line. That's not meant as a critism - it just is. So having Hogan all over everything, a ridiculous amount of needless patronage for his buddies and family... none of it should really be surprising.

[Melanieshaman]

That's what I was worried about as soon as I heard Hogan was joining TNA. Fans talked about him being a great promoter, but he's really only been a self-promoter. Hogan has had a great career and done a fantastic job of keeping himself relevant and at the front of the line. That's not meant as a criticism - it just is. So having Hogan all over everything, a ridiculous amount of needless patronage for his buddies and family... none of it should really be surprising.


I agree. While I like Hogan as an authority figure, he needs to back it off a bit. I hate that they are devoting so much time to Waltman and Hall. Leave them out, they are not needed, Hall is a decade past his prime if not more. Let go of the past PLEASE! Personally, i think Bischoff spends too much time in everyone's business as well as Hogan. I didn't watch any wrestling for some time, what's the deal with Double J and Bischoff anyway?

I wish they would go back to the younger guys being more of a focus, and possibly need to reinvigorate the tag division. I don't get AJ as a heel..AT ALL... They tried that before and it didn't work for me, just because Flair is with him, that's supposed to get him over as heel? Personally he needs to drop the belt, and blame Flair for it, and turn face again.

And while i'm at it, Daniels?! come on! face turn to Fallen Angel again PLEASE! He's one of my favs in TNA, but i can't stomach him atm. Anyway, that's just a few things i needed to get off my chest. OH, also...please leave Jeff Hardy out of the title hunt, he's poison. I can't stand him!

[jesterx7769]

I agree Hogan is a huge problem. For anyone new (or old) who has checked them out at either the January 4th show or last monday has grown sick of seeing him so much. it isnt even him though, what if WWE used John Cena in every storyline and was on tv for 45 minutes out of the two hours? people would get sick of that too. and really, does Hogan even have drawing power anymore? Last monday, were old WCW/ECW or casual WWE fans really excited that Hogan was wrestling or on tv? their first reaction was probably the same as most of ours, "isn't he almost 60?"

[liontamer]

0.87 Flair, Styles, Hardy talk in the ring, Foley and Bischoff talk backstage.

0.85 Clip of Nasty Boys beating on Neal, Nasty Boys vs Team 3D, Angelina Love interview backstage, Hall and Pac interview backstage Nash/Young arrive and talk.

0.82 Anderson/Wolfe vs Angle/Pope, Hogan/Hardy/RVD/Bischoff talk backstage.

0.96 Love vs Daffney with The Beautiful People by the ring Tara gets involved, Hogan in the ring talking and calls out Sting who while coming to the ring gets jumped by RVD.

0.93 Ending of the Hogan/Sting/RVD segment in the ring when Bischoff ends it, Hernandez/Jarrett/Bischoff talk backstage, Hall vs Nash with Pac and Young getting involved.

0.82 Beer Money interview backstage, Hernandez vs Beer Money with Jarrett refereeing and Morgan on commentary.

0.81 Foley/Bischoff haircut segment, Shannon Moore interview backstage, x-division segment in the ring featuring Motor city guns/Generation Me/Amazing Red/Kendrick/Kaz/Daniels.

0.72 Abyss interview backstage, Hardy vs Styles with Abyss as enforcer.

0.74 Q9 Overrun: Hardy vs Styles, after match Flair swings a chair then Abyss slams Flair throught ramp.


wohoo, called the overall, althought I still expect that if broken down further the x-division segment lost more viewers than it shows. I'm guessing it elevated for a short time simply because EB and foley were in the ring and then it tanked.

Kinda funny that the knockouts in general pull in the most viewers when they are probably among the lowest paid wrestlers on staff.

With that in mind I, if I were booker I'd consider putting them 1-2 matches before the ME and see if they still hold their viewers, that might be a way to keep people from tuning out. I watched raw's diva match and it was aweful compared to the general action in knockouts matches (although the after match beatdown had some nice action)

[Hyde Hill]

Hyde..that's a bad assumption. it's not that viewers CHOSE Hart/McMahon over AJ/Hardy it's that that segments leading into the main event didn't give them any reason to stay tuned.

And going back..was there any reason to believe that match would be given proper time, or end without some kind of intereference? The one thing WCW proved is that bad booking eventually does drive viewers away.

So that even when good stuff happens, no one is willing to have faith and stay tuned.

Yeah I know that was just an initial gut reaction. So not thought out at all.

[Hyde Hill]

wohoo, called the overall, althought I still expect that if broken down further the x-division segment lost more viewers than it shows. I'm guessing it elevated for a short time simply because EB and foley were in the ring and then it tanked.

Kinda funny that the knockouts in general pull in the most viewers when they are probably among the lowest paid wrestlers on staff.

With that in mind I, if I were booker I'd consider putting them 1-2 matches before the ME and see if they still hold their viewers, that might be a way to keep people from tuning out. I watched raw's diva match and it was aweful compared to the general action in knockouts matches (although the after match beatdown had some nice action)

Yeah its always hard analyzing ratings as you actually need minute by minutes or at least segment per segment to see what people tuned out to and what made people to keep watching. In the end it doesn't matter that much though as good overall shows without any crap on a consistent basis draw best.

[GatorBait19]

This is completely bogus.

There was really only WWE when Cena came around so there was nobody else to NOT want him. WCW wanted HBK when he left the AWA and tried to get him from the WWF on multiple occassions. WCW liked Mark Callous and wanted to keep him, but they never thought about the Undertaker gimmick which is obviously a very gimmicky niche gimmick.

As for Rey, he was huge in WCW. Benoit really never got any more run in the WWF than he did in WCW, Eddie didn't get to the top in the E for years after jumping ship.

Edit: The E has been better at creating stars because they have more brand power and better production values than the other companies. They've also been incredibly lucky with gimmicks sticking.

first let me make a change in that statement, WCW when Eric took over couldn't produce new talent they could push all the way, only two that cam to mind are Big Show and Goldberg

but wwe wasn't the best during the War, WCW kicked their butts for two years and while big names jumped (Luger, Hart, Nash) wwf created people

the hardy's, Edge and Christian, The Rock, made Austin huge, Mankind became a star, Kane came, D-X

Jericho has had great success in the E

Eddie whether it took him a while or not had success, Yes Rey was big, but not a big as he was in the E, Benoit had more success in E then he did in WCW

[PeterHilton]

Yeah its always hard analyzing ratings as you actually need minute by minutes or at least segment per segment to see what people tuned out to and what made people to keep watching.

How about this for analysis?

More ratings notes:

* Monday's Impact rating of .84 is the lowest rating for Impact since November of 2006. Back then, Impact was airing in a late-night Thursday timeslot, not in prime-time.

* Not a single quarter hour segment of Impact reached the 1.0 mark. The highest rated segment was the fourth quarter hour (9:45PM ET-10PM ET) which featured the Beautiful People, Hulk Hogan calling out Sting, and RVD appearing. The segment drew a .96. It's probably worth noting that the Beautiful People were also in one of the highest rated segments of Impact last week.

* After the .96 in the fourth quarter hour, every segment dropped in the ratings all the way up to AJ Styles vs. Jeff Hardy doing a show-low .72. The overrun saw a slight increase up to a .74.

* TNA lost 15% of the audience they opened with, going from a .87 opening quarter hour to a .74 for the overrun.

I know..it's piling on. :p

[Stennick]

The thing to remember with ratings is this weeks ratings reflects last week show ( in most cases) you put on a bad show this week, next weeks ratings will reflect that. This show was a ton better than anything they have produced during the Hogan era. The problem is they have spent three months delivering confusing, all over the place, low quality, little wrestling. Last week they went head to head and people tuned in, the show was horrible and this week their starting to tune out. Its not easy to stop the ratings slide, once people tune out it takes twice as much to make them tune in. Negative reactions catch more peoples attention than positive.

[PeterHilton]

Totally agree.

TNA is the guy who spends weeks and weeks working up the courage to ask out the hottest girl in class, and then walks up to her, gets nervous, and pukes all over her new sweater.

[Hyde Hill]

How about this for analysis?

More ratings notes:

* Monday's Impact rating of .84 is the lowest rating for Impact since November of 2006. Back then, Impact was airing in a late-night Thursday timeslot, not in prime-time.

* Not a single quarter hour segment of Impact reached the 1.0 mark. The highest rated segment was the fourth quarter hour (9:45PM ET-10PM ET) which featured the Beautiful People, Hulk Hogan calling out Sting, and RVD appearing. The segment drew a .96. It's probably worth noting that the Beautiful People were also in one of the highest rated segments of Impact last week.

* After the .96 in the fourth quarter hour, every segment dropped in the ratings all the way up to AJ Styles vs. Jeff Hardy doing a show-low .72. The overrun saw a slight increase up to a .74.

* TNA lost 15% of the audience they opened with, going from a .87 opening quarter hour to a .74 for the overrun.

I know..it's piling on. :p

That's the same info as the breakdown thats not an analysis that is just facts. It was a very bad rating period.

[Prophet]

Totally agree.

TNA is the guy who spends weeks and weeks working up the courage to ask out the hottest girl in class, and then walks up to her, gets nervous, and pukes all over her new sweater.

You do something one time, and you're labelled for ...

Wait, you're not talking about me? Oh, carry on then. :D

[Hyde Hill]

Totally agree.

TNA is the guy who spends weeks and weeks working up the courage to ask out the hottest girl in class, and then walks up to her, gets nervous, and pukes all over her new sweater.

Lol yeah if you want to analyse ratings you should check the quarterlies on Thursday after Jan 4th. They kept going down and even the last Thursday show they started high. They totally pissed away all the goodwill with up and down booking.

The analogy I always like to make for TNA is: "the little engine that should."

My favorite recent one is comparing it to the restaurant world. (watching too much Hell's kitchen one day). This is the short clear version so bare with me.

1. So brand awareness is your advertising for your restaurant in total. Which is low for TNA but one of the things Hogan/EB have improved and one of the main goals of the move to Monday.

2. Brand Identity is what your Restaurant is known for. Other then not being the WWE and having an X-Division the general populace doesn't know.

3. The production values is the restaurant itself eg the ambiance, lighting, tables etc. Not that horrible but compared to the E terrible. Some small stuff that can easily be improved hasn't been done.

4. The talent roster are the ingredients. They have more then enough seriously and that makes some dishes overcomplicated and some great ingredients unused.

5. The headbooker is the one that makes the menu and supervises the cooking. Some dishes are good to great but too many are very bad.

6. Creative are the cooks. BAD and inconsistent.

7. Service is the pacing of the show etc.

So unless you a know the brand b don't mind the ambiance c know which dishes are good and d are lucky enough to get it well prepared you are screwed. Making it a real acquired taste

1. Has improved with Hulk/EB.
2. Stayed the same so far. And really needs work.
3. Slight improvement.
4. Too much. improvement in the top line Hardy + RVD, crap added on the bottom.
5. Better in some departments worse in others
6. Same
7. Better but still not good.

And the overall net result is again 0.

The WWE in very short.

1. Excellent.
2. Fine.
3. Excellent
4. Good enough but overuse of certain ingredients and too many similar ones.
5. Mediocre but simple with some good dishes
6. Fine and on occasion good.
7. Slow but a lot off attention.

So a simple menu with decent preparation that everyone knows about and knows what to expect.

I know its kinda flawed and simplified and it makes TNA to out to be a bit worse then it is but its close.

[TommyDreamerFan]

I sat back to day and thought to myself of all the people TNA brought in, the only one that annoys me is Hall. Get rid of him, not only can he not wrestle he can't draw.

Am I the only one who is enjoying the Nasty/Dudley feud? Good god it's the like one of the last dream feuds left. The only other Dudley match I'd want to see is impossible (vs Road Warriors)

The rating? Un-****ing-surprising. WWE is heading towards the biggest show IN THE INDUSTRY and they had STEVE AUSTIN. Also bare in mind, people were paying attention to the 1st show because well it was the 1st one. And it was taped... Ect. Largest reason has nothing to do with anything y'all are bitching about, because the defacto reason is TNA has no brand name recognition. Dixie Carter is right, it's going to take time and commitment. So long as TNA has that, it doesn't matter what rating TNA gets for the moment because eventually it'll improve.

Is no one deeply troubled by the fact that, apparently, the wrestlers don't draw fans anymore it's the companys that do? It's frightening.

[liontamer]

I sat back to day and thought to myself of all the people TNA brought in, the only one that annoys me is Hall. Get rid of him, not only can he not wrestle he can't draw.

Am I the only one who is enjoying the Nasty/Dudley feud? Good god it's the like one of the last dream feuds left. The only other Dudley match I'd want to see is impossible (vs Road Warriors)

The rating? Un-****ing-surprising. WWE is heading towards the biggest show IN THE INDUSTRY and they had STEVE AUSTIN. Also bare in mind, people were paying attention to the 1st show because well it was the 1st one. And it was taped... Ect. Largest reason has nothing to do with anything y'all are bitching about, because the defacto reason is TNA has no brand name recognition. Dixie Carter is right, it's going to take time and commitment. So long as TNA has that, it doesn't matter what rating TNA gets for the moment because eventually it'll improve.

Is no one deeply troubled by the fact that, apparently, the wrestlers don't draw fans anymore it's the companys that do? It's frightening.


oh come on now.... they can't get rid of Hall. I mean he's the one that looks like Elvis (just beore he died)

and I disagree with the last statement. The wrestlers are still the draws (as you said raw drew more just from having austin the debut with Hogan and EB got a bump), it's just that the top draws pretty much are all in one company right now. If Cena, Orton, Mysterio, HBK, HHH, Taker etc jumped to TNA it would make a difference.

[Self]

Yes. Wrestlers are still draws to an extent. Jeff Hardy is a draw. Rob Van Dam is a draw. Sting is a draw. Time and time again, TNA have gotten their mitts on draws. However, draws aren't magic. You don't automatically gain viewers just by having them appear on your show. You have to promote it. You have to tell people it's going to happen, and you have to tell them it's going to be awesome. Not everyone reads rumors and spoilers. Not everyone follows Dixie Carter on Twitter. They should have been shouting Jeff Hardy vs AJ Styles from the rooftops. TV. Radio. Newspapers. Major internet sites. Advertise! Promote! Holy Christ, Jeff f'n Hardy is in TNA, and he's going to fight our World Heavyweight Champion!!! Only this Monday on Impact! Miss it or miss out (because Jeff might be going to jail)!

By not promoting it, they're not only missing out on a ratings bump, but you're saying "this doesn't deserve promoting" "this isn't that big a deal". It makes Jeff Hardy and AJ Styles look bad. Worthless. Just another guy.

[justtxyank]

first let me make a change in that statement, WCW when Eric took over couldn't produce new talent they could push all the way, only two that cam to mind are Big Show and Goldberg

Diamond Dallas Page is another one.

but wwe wasn't the best during the War, WCW kicked their butts for two years and while big names jumped (Luger, Hart, Nash) wwf created people

They still had more brand power. I am a WCW mark, but I can be honest about it. The only time WCW outpaced WWF in the industry is when their shows were headlined by WWF guys. Hogan, Savage, Nash, Hall, Bret Hart...WCW was a growing company in the early 90s, but after Hogan jumped in it was all about WWF branded guys at the top. You look at the list of World Champions from 1995 onward, and you will see a lot of WWF guys. Hogan, Nash, Savage, Sid.

the hardy's, Edge and Christian, The Rock, made Austin huge, Mankind became a star, Kane came, D-X

The Rock and Steve Austin were both luck for the WWF. Neither was over with what Vince wanted to do with them. As for Mankind and Kane, you are right, both got over with gimmicks that stuck. I give them credit for that. Just like WCW got over Booker T and DDP.

Jericho has had great success in the E

Absolutely. Jericho is a glaring example of WCW missing the boat on a star's potential. Him moreso than Steve Austin.

Eddie whether it took him a while or not had success, Yes Rey was big, but not a big as he was in the E, Benoit had more success in E then he did in WCW

Sure, but he had success with WCW as well. He could control his drinking and drugs which undermined him routinely in WCW. And yes, Rey was big in WCW, as big as he's ever been in the WWF. They just didn't make the decision to give him a world title run because they, smartly, didn't think he was a credible world champion. The WWF shared that view because his run was a joke.

As for Benoit, he had more success in the WWF due to arriving already at a position on the card. He had one title reign and was pretty always at the upper midcard, just like he was after establishing himself in WCW.

[PeterHilton]

Am I the only one who is enjoying the Nasty/Dudley feud? Good god it's the like one of the last dream feuds left. The only other Dudley match I'd want to see is impossible (vs Road Warriors)



Yes. For the most part. And you must've been a huge Nastys fan back in the day because I've never considered them on the level of any team where I would consider anything they do ever to be a 'dream match.'

The rating? Un-****ing-surprising. WWE is heading towards the biggest show IN THE INDUSTRY and they had STEVE AUSTIN. Also bare in mind, people were paying attention to the 1st show because well it was the 1st one. And it was taped... Ect. Largest reason has nothing to do with anything y'all are bitching about, because the defacto reason is TNA has no brand name recognition. Dixie Carter is right, it's going to take time and commitment. So long as TNA has that, it doesn't matter what rating TNA gets for the moment because eventually it'll improve.



This might make more sense if it weren't for the fac that TNA's ratings are actually dropping from their own ratings at the Thursday position.

And for years - come hell of high water - that number was pretty steady. TNA is losing its own fanbase. And that fanbase was pretty loyal. Which means it probably shouldn't be as affected by counterprogramming.

[mizzou24]

where do you guys find tv ratings.. i have been looking all over as i would like to follow the battle weekly. (well not much of a battle yet..)

[jesterx7769]

Just google 3/15 impact rating

[Fleisch]

I don't know if this has been mentioned (due to how obvious it is I'm guessing it may have been discussed) but anyway, what kind of thought process thinks it's a good bit of business to have your Champion LOSE to a guy not even in the title picture on the last show before a PPV? How does that make any sense, build any kind of heat or interest in AJ Styles? I'm just confused and baffled with the serious lack of direction or focus the company has. It's kind of disappointing seeing the alternative, edgy, high impact wrestling that was TNA slowly turn into the "clone" of WCW. Bad planning, non sensical booking and less focus than a blind man in a blizzard. I cannot see TNA getting anywhere near WWE, in fact the way they are going I can't see them still being in business in a year or 2.

Shame Really.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Anyone getting the feeling of WWE names jumping ship to TNA soon?

I have a feeling Carlito and Primo might end up there soon

[jesterx7769]

Hopefully not, TNA has enough former WWE midcarders that cannot draw. They either have to hope for a big name to be fed up with WWE like Angle or try to make people care about their people since they're basically WWE's midcard brand.

[brashleyholland]

Am I the only one who is enjoying the Nasty/Dudley feud? Good god it's the like one of the last nightmare feuds left.



Fixed :)

Seriously though...Nasty Boys...dream feud...really? I can't recall anything they have done ever that has made me think "I want to see that again".

[dvdWarrior]

I've had a feeling Carlito might end up in TNA for quite a long, long time actually. He hasn't yet though. I can easily see him there though, it seems like a good fit.

Plus, if anyone's interested, or if it hasn't already been talked about, I've finally discovered what Shannon Moore was talking aboot on Impact: the book of DILLIGAF, not 'Deligath' . I'm not entirely sure what the 'F' stands for, ;), but the rest means 'Does It Look Like I Give A..."

So....

Yeah!

*boogies*

[jesterx7769]

wow, I cant believe he actually used that (in a that is extremely lame kind of way). perhaps if I ILLIGAF'd Shannon Moore I would have looked it up.

[shawn michaels 82]

I think the most important here is that when TNA is out of business (that will not take long) certain "former WCW personalities" (we all know who i'm talking about) won't be able to blame that on a AOL/Time Warner merger like last time. yes, we all know that if the merger didn't happened at all, WCW would have been in a business for an adicional time period, because Turner woanted that and would have financed that. But the fact is that even if the merger didn't happened they would still be out of business nowadays, because Turner would not be able to keep losing money in such a "flamboyant way" (and i'm beeing polite9 for much longer. So...finally some people will be able to stop using the merger as an excuse for their own (now more then proven)tremendous incompetence!

[PeterHilton]

I think the most important here is that when TNA is out of business (that will not take long)

From a strictly business standpoint they should've been out of business years ago. So I really don't think you can assume they'll be going out of business anytime soon.

They were bleeding money for years before Dixie stepped in and convinced her dad to finance the whole thing.

So as long as daddy supports Dixie's pet project (which might be a while; wouldn''t make sense to cut her off now that TNA is actually profitable ) and Spike is giving them a outlet for their shows ( again...might be a while; Spike is dying to compete with USA and they see TNA as a major piece in that battle) they won't go "out of business"

It might take a catastrophic loss of viewers for that to even be considered.

[Nedew]

shawn michaels 82, businesses that are in profit tend not to go out of business. You'll be waiting a while :p

[shawn michaels 82]

Jesus Christ, don't interpretate all so damn literally. The rest of the post was the most important and no one talked about that! XD Of course i know they won't be closing the doors tomorrow or next year,etc etc...that was an ironic matter of speaking...but the rest of the post is correct! Turner would keep feeding WCW...but eventually he would have to pull the plug unless he wanted to ask for a morgadge on his house. LOL. So even if the merger did not happen, WCW would be out of business nowadays and some guys who entirely blamed the merger back then, will have no excusses for failing now, wheter that failure includes goign out of business or simply not overcoming WWE . That's my point!

[Zeel1]

Jesus Christ, don't interpretate all so damn literally. The rest of the post was the most important and no one talked about that! XD Of course i know they won't be closing the doors tomorrow or next year,etc etc...that was an ironic matter of speaking...but the rest of the post is correct! Turner would keep feeding WCW...but eventually he would have to pull the plug unless he wanted to ask for a morgadge on his house. LOL. So even if the merger did not happen, WCW would be out of business nowadays and some guys who entirely blamed the merger back then, will have no excusses for failing now, wheter that failure includes goign out of business or simply not overcoming WWE . That's my point!

..Unless AOL buys Panda Energy. :p

[shawn michaels 82]

..Unless AOL buys Panda Energy. :p

That would seriously be hilarious and good for those idiots who need to get excuses. Damn...i would lmao, garan-damn-teed!

[TheOmniWarrior]

Donald Trump should buy TNA and sell it to vince in a week for double what he payed for it.

[PeterHilton]

Jesus Christ, don't interpretate all so damn literally. The rest of the post was the most important and no one talked about that! XD Of course i know they won't be closing the doors tomorrow or next year,etc etc...that was an ironic matter of speaking...but the rest of the post is correct! Turner would keep feeding WCW...but eventually he would have to pull the plug unless he wanted to ask for a morgadge on his house. LOL. So even if the merger did not happen, WCW would be out of business nowadays and some guys who entirely blamed the merger back then, will have no excusses for failing now, wheter that failure includes goign out of business or simply not overcoming WWE . That's my point!

Actually a very good point. F'n sick of hearing EriC Bischoff respond to every question about WCW with "corporate maneuvering radarada Time Warner radarada never lost the war radarada grmmblemmble "

[shawn michaels 82]

Actually a very good point. F'n sick of hearing EriC Bischoff respond to every question about WCW with "corporate maneuvering radarada Time Warner radarada never lost the war radarada grmmblemmble "

Thank God someone understood what i meant! Amen Brother! :)

[Nedew]

Honestly, i think WCW would still be going today sans-buyout. It was Turner's baby. And i don't think he would've been anywhere near mortgaging his house or anything of that ilk - let's be clear, Turner has a lot of money. He can afford to piss a few million away.

[shawn michaels 82]

Honestly, i think WCW would still be going today sans-buyout. It was Turner's baby. And i don't think he would've been anywhere near mortgaging his house or anything of that ilk - let's be clear, Turner has a lot of money. He can afford to piss a few million away.

The mortgadge part is a joke, i think that was obvious. As for the rest, if you are from those days, as i am, and if you know how much he was losing a year...well, if you know all that...then you should also know that you're wrong. WCW would be dead and buried nowadays avec or sans merger. :p

[PeterHilton]

Not to stray too far off TNA, but shawn michaels 82 has a point

They were in line to lose over a hundred million dollars that last year. No way Turner keeps the business going if that continues.

I supposed the "continues" part is debatable...

[Nedew]

I just looked it up and Turner has less money than i thought. Obviously he's got ****ing loads, but compared to other rich people, not so much.

I've always thought of him like Roman Abramovich, who has pumped over a billion quid (so, 2 billion dollars) into Chelsea FC with scant monetary reward. Obviously, compared to that, 100 million is bugger all.

But Abramovich is worth 8.5 billion dollars, and Turner 2.0 billion. Perhaps he wouldn't be so happy to deal with a 100 million loss. Maybe he would though.

Thing is, we can't change the past, so we really don't know.

Edit: Hold on, there are two ways of quantifying a billion. A thousand million, and a million million. And i've completely lost track of which the values i've listed apply to :(

[Remianen]

shawn michaels 82, businesses that are in profit tend not to go out of business.

Not always (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehman_brothers). :p Sometimes, it doesn't take much (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aig) for a sea change (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_run).

And from what I understand, TNA isn't exactly bathing in profits. I don't see them going out of business in the foreseeable future, but I do see them becoming marginalized to a degree.

[cappyboy]

Actually a very good point. F'n sick of hearing EriC Bischoff respond to every question about WCW with "corporate maneuvering radarada Time Warner radarada never lost the war radarada grmmblemmble "

Wait, Eric Bischoff's been talking about this stuff with Schnitzel from Chowder?

[shawn michaels 82]

I just looked it up and Turner has less money than i thought. Obviously he's got ****ing loads, but compared to other rich people, not so much.

I've always thought of him like Roman Abramovich, who has pumped over a billion quid (so, 2 billion dollars) into Chelsea FC with scant monetary reward. Obviously, compared to that, 100 million is bugger all.

But Abramovich is worth 8.5 billion dollars, and Turner 2.0 billion. Perhaps he wouldn't be so happy to deal with a 100 million loss. Maybe he would though.

Thing is, we can't change the past, so we really don't know.

Edit: Hold on, there are two ways of quantifying a billion. A thousand million, and a million million. And i've completely lost track of which the values i've listed apply to :(

They apply to both...a thousand million and a billion are the same thing.
As for turner, of course he has less money then what you thought. The merger eventually kicked him off his own empire. And as much as he'd be willing to keep feeding WCW if the merger didn't happened, that would imply kicking out the leeches inside the company (aka the current top draws at the time) and probably most of the booking team would join them in the unemployment. As much as Turner knows his way around corporate business he knows squat about wrestling, so if he kicked out the leeches (he would have too, in order to stop losing the big - and small - bucks.) he would be put in a situation in wich he hould have zero knowledge on how to reverse it. So...WCW would pretty much be dead or would have been bought by someone other than VKM. Maybe that would be the only way for surviving.


Wait, Eric Bischoff's been talking about this stuff with Schnitzel from Chowder?

Priceless! :D

[jesterx7769]

Pretty sure we need a WCW thread since the TNA thread turns into one every 10 pages

[shawn michaels 82]

Pretty sure we need a WCW thread since the TNA thread turns into one every 10 pages

Agree. And while we're at it let's make a thread against the ones opposing off-topic. :D

Of course i'm joking, we all know that we have rules to follow, and why we should follow them, but sometimes te on-topic obligation just cuts a conversation away. If we made a WCW thread tomorrow, or even today, no one would be taking this discussion there, as the subject would have faded already. But you do have a valid point.

Getting back on topic: TNA need to put their act together. They can say all they want...but the last ratings (worse then the ones on the thursday slot)...that's just...bad. And sure, it's not the end of the world, radarada, radarada...we know the deal, woooo. But, jumping the shark starts just like that...so they should pay attention to what they are (not) doing.

[PeterHilton]

Pretty sure we need a WCW thread since the TNA thread turns into one every 10 pages

Not our fault. Similar roster. Similar problems. The biggest players are involved in both. Kinda hard not to make the comparison

It would be like reviewing Ocean's Twelve and not mentioning Ocean's Eleven.

[Stennick]

So I've watched the last two weeks of Impact nearly all the way through and haven't heard ONE mention of Joe's name. Did they drop this storyline? And if not how the hell can they advance it if they don't even talk about it?

[Slagaholic]

My guess is that he shows up sometimes between now and BFG with a new look, new more babyface friendly gimmick and will feud with AJ again.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Yes. For the most part. And you must've been a huge Nastys fan back in the day because I've never considered them on the level of any team where I would consider anything they do ever to be a 'dream match.'



This might make more sense if it weren't for the fac that TNA's ratings are actually dropping from their own ratings at the Thursday position.

And for years - come hell of high water - that number was pretty steady. TNA is losing its own fanbase. And that fanbase was pretty loyal. Which means it probably shouldn't be as affected by counterprogramming.

No I wasnt back then because I wasn't even a fan when they were around. They're just the last of the established tag teams left in the world (Unless we ever get to see the Hardys or Edge and Christian back together again). And the Nasty's aren't horrible in the ring, they're still decent brawlers and I believe the Dudleys are more than capable of carying them to something watchable. Hell if they get heel heat, I wouldn't mind them sticking around to feud with the un-made talent and get them over.

Actually that just shows that the fanbase TNA was getting was the WWEs.

Tell you what, 8 months is the benchmark for me. Come december, if they haven't improved steadily from a 1.0, I'll say TNA won't make it.

Still a anything higher than a .5 is higher then anything Spike could put in that time slot anyway, save live UFC events which is impossible for UFC to put on every week.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Wait, Eric Bischoff's been talking about this stuff with Schnitzel from Chowder?

Good god that show is witty as hell. That, Flapjack, and what appears to be that Adventure Time show are all shows I wish I had growing up in addition to my superhero ones.

[TommyDreamerFan]

NOTE: This following NOTE has been written post writing the following post. I've been drinking, so the following is a drunken written rant post on my feelings on the TNA product and the industry as a whole. I look forward to reading it tomorrow with you for the first time because chances are I don't even remember half of what it is I wrote.

I apologize for the length. Please point and laugh at me where necessary. And of course, *ahem*, "It's Still Real To Me, DAMMIT!"

So I've watched the last two weeks of Impact nearly all the way through and haven't heard ONE mention of Joe's name. Did they drop this storyline? And if not how the hell can they advance it if they don't even talk about it?

You know, maybe it was a way to ease him out of current storylines?

Joe has become real stagnant ever since TNA ****ed him up. He was built up perfectly up until the end of the Kurt Angle feud. He should of dominated and killed bitches dead, because thats the only way Fat joe looks menacing is with a constant strong Umaga-like booking. The entire Front Line angle killed his heat.

You know, it might be a SMART move by TNA to take Joe away for a while and then bring him back and re-establish him because this guy even more then AJ Styles (who's been the go-to man forever) NEEDS to be the new face of TNA.

Plus with such a stacked card per the moment, there really isn't any room for joe. Let the Ex-WWE guys take the spot light for a while, and slowly start mixing in the new guys we want to push.

Listen guys, I know I'm really coming off as a TNA mark and for that I'm sorry if I seem like an *******. Fact is, watching TNA right now is so incredibly enjoyable that I haven't felt this same way about wrestling since 2004 (where I enjoyed both TNA and WWE up until the end of that year).

I do think it would of been smarter for TNA to have built up their fanbase on Monday Night. Ultimatly though it doesn't matter what rating they pull against the WWE, just so long as they're higher then any show Spike can put in that time slot Spike won't care. And so long as Panda Energy has the cash to dish out, none of this matters but putting on good shows and ultimately time. It'll catch on. Ratings will improve. Fans that know about TNA will switch over to Spike during WWE comerical breaks.

I think someone said earlier they need to advertise more and I think that's a good ****ing point. Whatever TNA's advertising budget is right now it needs a sharp increase. They need comericals during RAW every week because I think ultimately the problem is people don't know TNA exists, that wrestling exists outside the WWE bubble.

And where to put the blame on that? On us. Wrestling fans. Those of us geeky to be "those in the know" we should be doing everything in our power to educate the casuals about TNA. Regardless of weather we like the product or not, who cares? Because I largely believe the casual fan doesn't give a damn about any of the little niche things we bitch about so long as whats on the screen is entertaining.

My proof? in the WWE Universe, a world of MIDGETS LIVE UNDER THE ****ING RING! Think about that! WWE, did an angle, were they expect the viewing public to suspend disbelief that not only does the contests you see in the ring are real but that THERE ARE MIDGETS UNDER THE MOTHER****ING RING!

And yet people like Lance Storm, a man I greatly respect mind you, bitches when Ken Anderson gets knocked out from 1 chair shot. EXCUSE ME, but when the Goliath of the two can do a stupid angle like MIDGET WORLD and not turn off their fan base... well good god, I'm led to believe there is absolutly nothing Vince can do to the wrestling product to ruin it. Nothing. ABSOLUTLY FREAKING NOTHING! Because the casual fan doesn't care so long as it's wrestling and so long as it entertains.

And I think TNA is doing that with their product. It is entertaining, miles more entertaining then anything the WWE is doing. Is it miles ahead then anything ROH is doing? GOD NO! But you know what? The people that watch ROH religiously couldn't enjoy the WWE product anyway so they're not the ones TNA should be trying to attract!

I've been ranting, and I apologize, but the ultimate conclusion is branding. TNA is not a brand name. It as has no worth to the casual market. The only way it'll increase is time. I'm confident that by december they will find their fanbase with the names and talent they have. And if they don't succeed god help us, because TNA is the only thing in Vince McMahon's way from making the wrestling synomous with WWE, and the only thing in Vince McMahon's way from making wrestling entirly mainstream.

He wants to make wrestlers actors. He wants them in movies and TV shows. He wants his own TV network. And you know what I say? SCREW THAT! I don't want Wrestling mainstream, and if Joe Schmuck thinks he's to beyond to enjoy Pro-Wrestling screw him. Those of us who are passionate about this and stumbled upon it, it's for us and shouldn't be dumbed down for the mainstream to line McMahon's wallet. A mainstream, mind you, that will never EVER respect it as much as we because it has to be dumbed down for them.

All right, I'm done ranting.

[Fleisch]

If WCW was losing $100 million, Turner could have thrown it away for years as he was making money on other ventures too and Interest on his money in the bank that would more than covered the "loss". Lets remember it was the WCW that was losing money, not the Turner Empire. That said, they would only have lasted another 5 years because after the stock collapse, Turner lost over $7 billion so I doubt even he would have thought it viable to finance WCW after that if they were still bleeding money. Had all of that not happened, the merger etc... then WCW would still exist today, albeit not in any state to compete with WWE... back on topic though now.

Personally I don't see TNA making "profit" for much longer if viewers keep switching off. Yeah they are getting the crowds at the moment, but I've always been of the opinion, catering for the "casual fan base" as a whole is tricky and dangerous because your hardcore fans are there through thick and through thin, your fairweather fans are there when the product is hot.. if it's not, then they've switched back to Raw. So alientating the fans who in a way helped make TNA as popular as it was is a stupid move. TNA needs to find that middle ground and keep Hogan OUT of the ring (in terms of wrestling). It is called Total Non Stop Action, yet has less in ring action than Raw. I'm not a lover of Raw, and very rarely do I watch it, but in the same breath TNA moving to Mondays at the moment is nothing more than a Death March. They are gonig into battle without the required weapons and are going to get slaughtered. People who are bored with Raw may tune in to see this action packed show and see Hogan and Flair bumbling around the ring, Bischoff messing with Jeff Jarrett and Mick Foley... click. Back to Raw. Hogan and Flair do have a place in TNA, I mean they're living legends, but Flair managing Styles I can just about stomach, and Hogan as the on screen authority. Bischoff as an on screen authority too is just muddying the waters, then Dixie Carter getting in on it too... stop now please. Hell, they say booking a show isn't easy, I can understand that, but if you've been doing it as long as Bischoff has it should be second nature by now and the crap being churned out is something I'd expect from an upcoming promoter whose never done the job before!

Damn I kinda went off on a tangent there... my apologies! :D

[PeterHilton]

You know, it might be a SMART move by TNA to take Joe away for a while and then bring him back and re-establish him because this guy even more then AJ Styles (who's been the go-to man forever) NEEDS to be the new face of TNA.

I used to think that too. Now, not so much. And definitely not in terms of the current TNA product.

In a wrestling based fed that highlighted the X Division? He's an absolute stud who can work good matches with wrestlers that have a variety of styles and comes off as a legit bad-ass

In TNA's sports entertainment fed of today? He's a tubby guy of average height with limited marketability and just so-so mic skills.

They'd be better off pushing Morgan, Wolfe, and The Pope.

And where to put the blame on that? On us. Wrestling fans. Those of us geeky to be "those in the know" we should be doing everything in our power to educate the casuals about TNA. Regardless of weather we like the product or not, who cares? Because I largely believe the casual fan doesn't give a damn about any of the little niche things we bitch about so long as whats on the screen is entertaining.

Haha...what? No fan anywhere is obligated to do a f***ing thing for TNA

They have a major cable TV slot and a billion dollar energy company bankrolling them: they need to market themselves better and put out a more appealing product.

And I think TNA is doing that with their product. It is entertaining, miles more entertaining then anything the WWE is doing.

See? You say this, and yet...the numbers don't bear that out.

TNA's own fanbase is pulling away since the Hogan/Bischoff re-launch.

And I hate to say this: but just because the Net fans of the world dump on the WWE, does not mean that it's a 'bad product.'

It just appeals to a different - much larger, and much more reliable - audience.

It's like with movies: who cares if critics say the plot is bad when the movie is shattering box office record world wide?

And if they don't succeed god help us, because TNA is the only thing in Vince McMahon's way from making the wrestling synomous with WWE, and the only thing in Vince McMahon's way from making wrestling entirly mainstream.

As far as most people go, the WWE IS synonymous with wrestling. Welcome to 2002.

He wants to make wrestlers actors. He wants them in movies and TV shows. He wants his own TV network. And you know what I say? SCREW THAT! I don't want Wrestling mainstream, and if Joe Schmuck thinks he's to beyond to enjoy Pro-Wrestling screw him. Those of us who are passionate about this and stumbled upon it, it's for us and shouldn't be dumbed down for the mainstream to line McMahon's wallet. A mainstream, mind you, that will never EVER respect it as much as we because it has to be dumbed down for them.

You're right. It IS real to you. lol ;)

EDIT: and re-read that last paragraph. Because everything that you're 'accusing' the E of doing is exactly what TNA wants to do.

They are NOT a wrestling company. They are an angle based sports entertainment company. Are you watching the same shows I am? They want to do the exact same thing the WWE is doing; they just don't have the same talent behind the scenes to make it work as consistently.

All the TNA fans who are hoping for a return to Total Nonstop Action, and a bunch of X Division matches should just quit now and watch ROH because TNA is not doing that any more: They have a crapload of angles, a bunch of short matches (which are actually more like angles anyway), most of their matches end in run-ins, and maybe MAYBE one decent match of the night.

All their stuff pushes to the PPV where we actually get to see wrestling.

OH yeah..nothing like the WWE. And definitely a million times more entertaining.

[dvdWarrior]

Oh, I think it might be possible that the TNA product is in and of itself more entertaining than anything WWE is doing; the only problem is that WWE is doing it with Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker, and TNA is doing it with AJ Styles and Abyss. Not a slight against AJ or Abyss, just saying.

Also, I think TNA's biggest problem is perception. Wasn't in Vince that always said "Perception Is Reality"? I think it was anyway. Anywho, EVERYTHING on Raw is geared to show that WWE is by far the greatest sports entertainment empire the world has ever seen; A LOT of things on Impact seem geared to show that WWE is the greatest sports entertainment empire the world has ever seen.

Once again, just saying.

:cool:

[Hyde Hill]

Donald Trump should buy TNA and sell it to vince in a week for double what he payed for it.

Trump might be able to buy Panada Energy but Vince can't afford it. Panda>WWE by a big margin.

Also Shawn sarcasmetc unfortunatly doesn't work well on boards like these.

[shawn michaels 82]

Trump might be able to buy Panada Energy but Vince can't afford it. Panda>WWE by a big margin.

Also Shawn sarcasmetc unfortunatly doesn't work well on boards like these.

It doesn't work if the users don't chill out a litlle. No one should ever interpretate anyone's words literally all the time in just about...anywhere...wether in a forum or any other place. Sure, we have to explain ourselfs perfectly on our posts and we have to be clear, bla bla. But for God's sake...there is always room for a good joke, or healthy sarcasm, humour, irony, etc.

[brashleyholland]

Trump might be able to buy Panada Energy but Vince can't afford it. Panda>WWE by a big margin.



Who said anything about buying Panda Energy? He said Trump should buy TNA, not Panda.

[PeterHilton]

It doesn't work if the users don't chill out a litlle. No one should ever interpretate anyone's words literally all the time in just about...anywhere...wether in a forum or any other place. Sure, we have to explain ourselfs perfectly on our posts and we have to be clear, bla bla. But for God's sake...there is always room for a good joke, or healthy sarcasm, humour, irony, etc.

We kinda have to take you literally because a) we may not know you better as of yet and b) this is a wrestling baord and there are SOME fans who make insane and illogical assertions and are being 100% serious.

[shawn michaels 82]

We kinda have to take you literally because a) we may not know you better as of yet and b) this is a wrestling baord and there are SOME fans who make insane and illogical assertions and are being 100% serious.
True, i'll give you that much. But i think it's pretty obvious by now that i am not one of those guys. :D

[TommyDreamerFan]

I used to think that too. Now, not so much. And definitely not in terms of the current TNA product.

In a wrestling based fed that highlighted the X Division? He's an absolute stud who can work good matches with wrestlers that have a variety of styles and comes off as a legit bad-ass

In TNA's sports entertainment fed of today? He's a tubby guy of average height with limited marketability and just so-so mic skills.

They'd be better off pushing Morgan, Wolfe, and The Pope.

I disagree. Look at what Umaga accomplished in the E. Joe can provide that same value to the company. Though I do agree Morgan, Wolfe, and Pope should be groomed to be TNA's top stars.


Haha...what? No fan anywhere is obligated to do a f***ing thing for TNA

They have a major cable TV slot and a billion dollar energy company bankrolling them: they need to market themselves better and put out a more appealing product.

I was a tad drunk when I wrote that sir, and when I drink my emotions get the better of me. However I do think that's true, they need to market themselves better, and for what ever TNA is choosing to not do that. I don't why, unless their planning on TNA catching on through word of mouth.


See? You say this, and yet...the numbers don't bear that out.

TNA's own fanbase is pulling away since the Hogan/Bischoff re-launch.

And I hate to say this: but just because the Net fans of the world dump on the WWE, does not mean that it's a 'bad product.'

It just appeals to a different - much larger, and much more reliable - audience.

It's like with movies: who cares if critics say the plot is bad when the movie is shattering box office record world wide?


I certainly don't feel the WWE product is bad in anyway, just boring. Stagnant. Same old same old. The reason I'm so fond of TNA, most likely, is because it's fresh and exciting. I've always felt that way when TNA is good, and there have been times I stopped watching TNA because I couldn't stand it. Russo's gimmick matches, how I couldn't understand any of the BS that was going on, feuds not ending on their logic closeur point. Russo is a very creative guy and I like that about him. Once he joined the promotion got very angle heavy, and they needed that, but he needs someone like Eric Bischoff/McMahon/Heyman to wade through the sea of crap and find the good bits.

Ratings actually went up a tad on Thursdays when Hogan/Bischoff took over. Certainly the product got better to by miles (But up to that point if they did anything right it would of been a step in the right direction) and why is it going down now? Cause their going against the WWE machine, of course the rating was going to go down. I still say give them time, because eventually it will catch on. There is absolutely no reason why it wouldn't.

Who wouldn't at very least flip flop channels during the commercials?

As far as most people go, the WWE IS synonymous with wrestling. Welcome to 2002.



You're right. It IS real to you. lol ;)

EDIT: and re-read that last paragraph. Because everything that you're 'accusing' the E of doing is exactly what TNA wants to do.

They are NOT a wrestling company. They are an angle based sports entertainment company. Are you watching the same shows I am? They want to do the exact same thing the WWE is doing; they just don't have the same talent behind the scenes to make it work as consistently.

All the TNA fans who are hoping for a return to Total Nonstop Action, and a bunch of X Division matches should just quit now and watch ROH because TNA is not doing that any more: They have a crapload of angles, a bunch of short matches (which are actually more like angles anyway), most of their matches end in run-ins, and maybe MAYBE one decent match of the night.

All their stuff pushes to the PPV where we actually get to see wrestling.

OH yeah..nothing like the WWE. And definitely a million times more entertaining.

[/QUOTE]

And? I'm a sports entertainment guy. I don't care if the ratio of matches to angles on the free weekly tv show is toward one side or the other so long as it's entertaining me. I enjoy that soap opera. And like you pointed out, the wrestling is on PPV, which for the most part, is where it should be.

I come down hard on Vince McMahon because he's trying to take the industry from what it is currently and make it all Disney. He wants to make movies and television shows, and that annoys me. Because he is the industry leader, and if he does this and succeeds with it, it'll probably change wrestling as it is pretty significantly and I don't necessarily want that. It's a petty gripe but it's how I feel none the less. I'm also very deeply afraid the industry will collapse and be replaced by MMA in our life time. The only thing I can see that'll save it is if TNA is successful in building up a small but good enough rating by December.

[TommyDreamerFan]

True, i'll give you that much. But i think it's pretty obvious by now that i am not one of those guys. :D

General rule of thumb, if I say something thats meant to be taken lightly I throw in a smiley or an LOL. Ah the joys and wonders of text communication!

[Tag01]

True, i'll give you that much. But i think it's pretty obvious by now that i am not one of those guys. :D

That's pretty funny coming from the guy who was posting how Benoit was innocent in the other thread. You amuse me, kiddo.

[shawn michaels 82]

Turner would keep feeding WCW...but eventually he would have to pull the plug unless he wanted to ask for a morgadge on his house. LOL. So even if the merger did not happen, WCW would be out of business nowadays and some guys who entirely blamed the merger back then, will have no excusses for failing now, wheter that failure includes goign out of business or simply not overcoming WWE . That's my point!

If that isn't a LOL...don't know what it may be! LOL

General rule of thumb, if I say something thats meant to be taken lightly I throw in a smiley or an LOL. Ah the joys and wonders of text communication!

I know the joys and wonders of text comunication, as you call them, LOL and as you see althoug i didn't use a smile or LOL in all of my jokes, i did use a LOL on this one (wich was the most criticized), wich doesn't mean i have to use them all the time i make a joke. I didn't even had to use them on the mortgadge joke...cause it's obvious that Turner would never let things get to that point. But i understand what you mean, and i know your right. Sadly there is people who say stuff like that...in a serious way. But if you did not knew...now you know i'm not one of those guys.

Back to topic: I still don't know why did TNA have so much rush in moving to the monday time slot...I mean, first they should have increased their fan base to an acceptable level, only then it would make some sense to think about the monday night wars. They are worrying too much with the E instead of looking at heir own backyard.

[PeterHilton]

I disagree. Look at what Umaga accomplished in the E. Joe can provide that same value to the company.

Midcard jobber to the star? meh...

I certainly don't feel the WWE product is bad in anyway, just boring. Stagnant. Same old same old. The reason I'm so fond of TNA, most likely, is because it's fresh and exciting. I've always felt that way when TNA is good, and there have been times I stopped watching TNA because I couldn't stand it. Russo's gimmick matches, how I couldn't understand any of the BS that was going on, feuds not ending on their logic closeur point. Russo is a very creative guy and I like that about him. Once he joined the promotion got very angle heavy, and they needed that, but he needs someone like Eric Bischoff/McMahon/Heyman to wade through the sea of crap and find the good bits.

I'll give you that. But to be fair, they are a publicly traded company with shareholders to answer to and the fact that they are going with only the most reliable draws and only the most heavily run stories...you kinda can't blame them.

[Nedew]

I know the joys and wonders of text comunication, as you call them, LOL and as you see althoug i didn't use a smile or LOL in all of my jokes, i did use a LOL on this one (wich was the most criticized), wich doesn't mean i have to use them all the time i make a joke. I didn't even had to use them on the mortgadge joke...cause it's obvious that Turner would never let things get to that point. But i understand what you mean, and i know your right. Sadly there is people who say stuff like that...in a serious way. But if you did not knew...now you know i'm not one of those guys.

When i referenced the mortgage thing, i didn't think "Oh boy, this guy really thinks Turner would need a mortgage?", i just used the same metaphor for "running short of money" that you did. Obviously, Ted Turner's idea of running short of money is different to the average person's (where they would need to get a mortgage).

If anything, you're the one who's misinterpreted what's been said :p

[TheOmniWarrior]

Did Lashley quit? Hes not on TNAs roster page anymore
EDIT: Short career in TNA for Morley.

[Stennick]

They basically let Lashley go without really telling him. Of course he couldn't make the last over seas tour and his time in MMA training has been taking up any time he would have to be wrestling.

He recently said in an interview "I guess I'm not part of TNA anymore" which would lead me to believe that he was just quietly let go.

[liontamer]

so.... Impact was on last night. Thought they weren't doing replays anymore. Replays aren't listed on TNA or spikes website either

[dvdWarrior]

I think they panicked when they saw this week's rating and desperately made the change this week. They'd planned to run a no-replay policy though.

:o

[Stennick]

It will be interesting to see what the rating was. I wonder if it goes back to its 1.0

[jesterx7769]

They changed their mind on Wednesday (I think, not Tuesday but no 100%) their reasoning was last weeks rating did so well Spike wanted to show it again but I think alot more of it has to do with Monday's rating being .8 since Spike as "major" movies in their time slot for the upcoming weeks. However more people will probably have watched Impact than Predator

I wouldn't be surprised if it got a 1.0 beating Monday. The move to Monday was purely to gain some hype, everyone in the company knows they arent going to get a 3.7 rating and "beat" RAW as TNA Hardcore's say "OMFG Impact is going to beat RAW! Well maybe not now, but in a year totally!"

I honestly didn't see anything wrong with their Thursday time slot, a lot of people watch RAW on Monday then TNA on Thursday. Time will tell if they can pull people away from RAW and make it in a Monday time slot ( I'd say they need to pull of 1.5's consistently by December to consider it a success) otherwise what was the point?

I think the "time" excuse is hilarious to me though, Dixie pulls that card out all the time. TNA has been on Spike TV for awhile now and in their two hour slot since late 07, any casual wrestling fan that would look into other wrestling options has probably heard of them and checked them out at least once and plain and simply do not like them enough to keep watching. Spike's size isn't an issue either as some point out since RAW was getting about the same ratings on Spike as they are now.

[TommyDreamerFan]

I don't think every wrestling fan has though, I bet the majority of them are in the dark and only the geekiest like us know about them. And of course the WWESheeple aren't going to want to watch TNA no matter how good it is because it's simply not WWE.

[CQI13]

And I'm sure a lot of people won't watch WWE BECAUSE it's WWE. That's fine too.

[Daffanka]

I don't think every wrestling fan has though, I bet the majority of them are in the dark and only the geekiest like us know about them. And of course the WWESheeple aren't going to want to watch TNA no matter how good it is because it's simply not WWE.

I think the "WWESheeple" (are you one of the people who smugly type out WWECW?) aren't going to watch TNA because all the ads told them is "WE HAVE HULK HOGAN WATCH HIM he's totally not 60!!!!"'

And if they by chance tuned in on Monday, boy, TNA didn't give them much reason to keep watching did they?

[Linsolv]

TNA's put on better matches than WWE, IMO. But not many... They've got Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Daniels, Desmond Wolfe... and yet, they seem to be fascinated with Waltman and the Nastyz.

Somehow, their ratings aren't going up! I can't see why.

[Remianen]

Wasn't in Vince that always said "Perception Is Reality"? I think it was anyway.

You thought wrong. That axiom pre-dates Vincent Kennedy McMahon's birth.

Ratings actually went up a tad on Thursdays when Hogan/Bischoff took over. Certainly the product got better to by miles (But up to that point if they did anything right it would of been a step in the right direction) and why is it going down now? Cause their going against the WWE machine, of course the rating was going to go down. I still say give them time, because eventually it will catch on. There is absolutely no reason why it wouldn't.

How's this for a reason? It's not the least bit appealing to the audience they're targeting. That a good enough reason?

I come down hard on Vince McMahon because he's trying to take the industry from what it is currently and make it all Disney. He wants to make movies and television shows, and that annoys me. Because he is the industry leader, and if he does this and succeeds with it, it'll probably change wrestling as it is pretty significantly and I don't necessarily want that. It's a petty gripe but it's how I feel none the less. I'm also very deeply afraid the industry will collapse and be replaced by MMA in our life time. The only thing I can see that'll save it is if TNA is successful in building up a small but good enough rating by December.

Yeah, that, world peace, and an end to world hunger are running at similar odds right about now. Vince knows his place. He knows where his strengths lie. He knows not to step outta line or else a big dog will pimp slap him (like the NFL did). So he's trying to make lateral moves with the properties he owns. Cross promotion of talent is a 'duh' proposition. Spike has been doing it for years (which is why you see SO much overlap between their properties). You think Jesse James shows up to UFC events on his own dime? AJ Styles at UFC whatever it was in freakin' Columbus (god that was a nightmare) was a coincidence? Spike does it, Vince has been doing it, so has every other entity. Vince wants his own TV channel because everyone else seems to be getting one (every college sports conference, the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, MLS is trying for one, etc). Every major content provider has or is exploring having their own distribution channel. It's business.

I want to respond to your word of mouth thing. Are you crazy? Do you have that much disdain for your own reputation? When I make recommendations to people (friends, colleagues, clients, whatever), they tend to take heed to those recommendations because (here's the important part) I don't recommend **** that sucks. TNA, right now, in my opinion, ****ing sucks. It frustrates me to no end because it doesn't have to be that way.

Let me go a little bit further, Mr I Love the Nasty Boys. YOU are the reason TNA will fail. Yeah, I said it. Every person who buys into this ol' dubya cee dubya kick is validating a failed strategy. Sure, maybe you would pay for a pay per view to see the fat, overpushed enhancement talents that were never worthy of screen time at their peak. But most people want to see wrestlers who can navigate a ring without the assistance of a power chair from the Scooter Store. Or who stall for time to catch their breath in the middle of a match (WATCH the Nasty Boy matches. Watch them critically, not through fanboy eyes). I swear Knobbs has a cardio level that can only be described as 'bovine'. Hell, I'd pay TWICE as much to see Randy Orton from his 'rest hold a-gogo' period than the freakin' Nastys. Also, keep this in mind. Every minute the Nasty Boys pollute the airwaves with their presence is a minute that workers like Sabin and Shelley don't get front line programs (no room at the inn!). Sometimes I wish someone would just give Scott Hall a case of ripple and put ME out of my misery. The fans TNA seems to be going after are not going to spend time trying to figure out wtf is going on and why a pair of old balding men in their 50s are lumbering around with blood oozing (because they're too old for it to gush anymore) from their heads. They're not going to try to figure out why a pay per view quality match is on free TV and why TNA's champion is losing clean to that WWE guy. They're going to ascertain that the WWE guy must be better so why are they watching this crap?

I don't think every wrestling fan has though, I bet the majority of them are in the dark and only the geekiest like us know about them. And of course the WWESheeple aren't going to want to watch TNA no matter how good it is because it's simply not WWE.

Tell you what, you let me know when it's good again and maybe I'll watch. On second thought, no, don't. Since you apparently advocate recommending things despite their lack of quality, I should probably find another informant.

But I think it's telling that you think WWE is stale (which it is) because they're relying heavily on their strengths. Gee, if TNA had done that from the beginning, perhaps they'd have 21st century draws and wouldn't have had to reach back into the past to exhume some past ones (along with a lot who didn't draw a dime).

[shawn michaels 82]

But I think it's telling that you think WWE is stale (which it is) because they're relying heavily on their strengths. Gee, if TNA had done that from the beginning, perhaps they'd have 21st century draws and wouldn't have had to reach back into the past to exhume some past ones (along with a lot who didn't draw a dime).

Amen!

[PeterHilton]

How's this for a reason? It's not the least bit appealing to the audience they're targeting. That a good enough reason?

That's gonna fall on deaf ears. TDF does genuinely enjoy the product right now so any time someone criticize we are WWESHEEPLE or summat.


Let me go a little bit further, Mr I Love the Nasty Boys. YOU are the reason TNA will fail. Yeah, I said it. Every person who buys into this ol' dubya cee dubya kick is validating a failed strategy. Sure, maybe you would pay for a pay per view to see the fat, overpushed enhancement talents that were never worthy of screen time at their peak. But most people want to see wrestlers who can navigate a ring without the assistance of a power chair from the Scooter Store. Or who stall for time to catch their breath in the middle of a match (WATCH the Nasty Boy matches. Watch them critically, not through fanboy eyes). I swear Knobbs has a cardio level that can only be described as 'bovine'. Hell, I'd pay TWICE as much to see Randy Orton from his 'rest hold a-gogo' period than the freakin' Nastys. Also, keep this in mind. Every minute the Nasty Boys pollute the airwaves with their presence is a minute that workers like Sabin and Shelley don't get front line programs (no room at the inn!). Sometimes I wish someone would just give Scott Hall a case of ripple and put ME out of my misery. The fans TNA seems to be going after are not going to spend time trying to figure out wtf is going on and why a pair of old balding men in their 50s are lumbering around with blood oozing (because they're too old for it to gush anymore) from their heads. They're not going to try to figure out why a pay per view quality match is on free TV and why TNA's champion is losing clean to that WWE guy. They're going to ascertain that the WWE guy must be better so why are they watching this crap?

Hahahahaha..tremendous.

That whole paragraph.

But I think it's telling that you think WWE is stale (which it is) because they're relying heavily on their strengths. Gee, if TNA had done that from the beginning, perhaps they'd have 21st century draws and wouldn't have had to reach back into the past to exhume some past ones (along with a lot who didn't draw a dime).

That's a whole lotta true.

[TommyDreamerFan]

I consider someone a WWESheeple when they are in fact, a casual wrestling fan. Not someone like you or me and certainly not someone who criticizes/even notices Knobbs being blown up in the ring.

The Sheeple I'm talking about would be the people that would flick on to TNA and dis-like it for the fact it's not part of the WWE Universe. Basically me when I was a young un-smartened wrestling fan and for the life of me I couldn't get into WCW because I was a WWF fan.

To probably a giant 2.5 of the WWE's current RAW rating none of the **** you/me/we care about (AJ being shorter then the girls, the lack of matches, guys who can barely work a match)matters. Why? Because that group of wrestling fans don't care so long as McMahon gives them something thats the least bit entertaining! And apparently that isn't much these days!

****, take a look at a promotion that did cater to the geeks like us like ECW. What were they pulling on TNN? .5! Nearly the same amount of advertising too! Hell for that matter, someone one pull up what ROH on HDNet is doing!

We're not the life blood of this industry, merely the most vocal part of it.

And **** y'all, The Nasty's if used right can be an asset. These guys have the charisma, they can get the crowd to hate them, just keep their matches under ten minute brawls. Build them up and then let them work with guys like Shelly and Sabin a great tag team that no one outside You, me and the cactus in the room give a **** about. Plus, The Nasty's were WAY ahead of their time! These were the guys that were wearing all black and doing the counter-culture look with leatherjackets and chains before that kind of thing became huge in wrestling with the attitude era.

And I think they can appeal to the WWE's target audience, who might I add like stupid **** like Hornswoggle so why wouldn't they dig the Nasty's? TNA ISN'T BOOKING FOR US THEY'RE BOOKING FOR THE SHEEP! AND WHY WOULD THEY WANT US TO WATCH ANYWAY? It's not like the IWC fanbase means jack**** or ROH would be the number 2 permotion

[Linsolv]

Question: Why are you capitalizing "sheeple?" You wouldn't capitalize sheep, or people.

For the record ratings on HDNet aren't really comparable to ratings on Spike TV or USA.

Incidentally, nobody gives a **** about the Motor City Machine Guns because they're being jobbed into oblivion. Same as with Evan Bourne on the E.

[Moe Hunter]

And **** y'all, The Nasty's if used right can be an asset. These guys have the charisma, they can get the crowd to hate them, just keep their matches under ten minute brawls. Build them up and then let them work with guys like Shelly and Sabin a great tag team that no one outside You, me and the cactus in the room give a **** about. Plus, The Nasty's were WAY ahead of their time! These were the guys that were wearing all black and doing the counter-culture look with leatherjackets and chains before that kind of thing became huge in wrestling with the attitude era.

Please cut down your rampant swearing. Adam has warned about this in recent times.


On topic, you have a lot of assumpitons. "IF" the Nasty's can be used right. I can't think of anyone being used right in TNA right now. Keeping their matches under 10 minutes would mean something if FAR more talented and over workers weren't having their matches kept under 5 minutes (or in the case of say, Sting vs RVD under one minute).

And so they wore big black coats to try and disguise how grossly out of shape they are.

1: Who cares if it was ahead of their time back then - they're WAY past their time now!
2. Bubba the Love Sponge also dresses the same. Doesn't make him any better suited to the company or product.
3. Their look, even if it was still relevant, has nothing to do with their talent, which is shockingly close to zero.

[shawn michaels 82]

Plus, The Nasty's were WAY ahead of their time! These were the guys that were wearing all black and doing the counter-culture look with leatherjackets and chains before that kind of thing became huge in wrestling with the attitude era.

My God...i can see the light! I had an epiphany! The Nastys are the world's greatest tag team EVER, (NOT) just because they did the counter-culture look with leather jackets and chains before the attitude era! My GAWD KING! They were wearing all black!They were so ahead of their time! This one is a slobberknocker!!! How didn't i see this one early? They totally rock because they kick assez and they beat up people with chairz and they jump into tablez! By GAWD!!!!

SOrry, but i coudn't resist! :rolleyes:

[Stennick]

I'd like to point out that Hornswaggle in these DX skits has made me laugh and entertained me more than most of what the WWE is putting on today, let alone TNA.

Aside from the court segment that was way too much time. Other than that I've enjoyed Hornswaggle attacking Santino, HHH taping him to a skateboard, etc. That has entertainened me a million times more than anything the Nasties ever did outside of a Cactus Jack/Kevin Sullivan/ vs. Nasties hardcore brawl in WCW.

[Linsolv]

I recall once, reading through a guide to writing feuds for diaries. Their idea of "short" was a month. Granted, their idea of "long" was only 3-4 months, but still.

It seems like TNA has feud ADD right now. The only thing that's lasted longer than a month is that Hogan's a face and Bischoff's a heel.

And maybe Jeff Jarrett getting humiliated. I mean, who doesn't enjoy that? If it were in the midst of a bunch of good matches, between the up-and-coming talent, I can't necessarily say I wouldn't.

[Daffanka]

snip

WWE are successful because they're running simple storylines with relatable characters where they give the fans a reason to care. TNA doesn't. They don't give the fans a reason to care about what happens. Which is fine if you're ROH and are putting on spectacular matches and telling stories that way, but iMpact is, what 80% talking?

Really I don't get this assumption of yours that only simpletons like WWE and sophisticated wrestling viewers (annoying smarks) should enjoy TNA. WWE is stale and too talky, but it's decent. It makes sense. TNA is garbage.

In fact I'd say a fair bit of the TNA fanbase are TNASheeple. These people watch TNA specifically because it's not WWE. They'll watch anything that's not WWE and call it brilliant to decry the competition.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Your Hornswoggle comparison just doesn't work. Wanna know why? Sure, I'll be the first to say it's far from what the usual viewer see in this sports-entertainment world and.. bluntly put, it turns me stomach awry. But this analogy of "if they can tolerate midgets doing ____, they can tolerate that" doesn't work. TNA is the one with the uphill battle here. They're the ones who have to hustle to put on an impressionable product to grab those ratings. They'll always do stuff that's better than many things WWE are doing, but clearly that's not enough. I mean, see:


And **** y'all, The Nasty's if used right can be an asset. These guys have the charisma, they can get the crowd to hate them, just keep their matches under ten minute brawls. Build them up and then let them work with guys like Shelly and Sabin a great tag team that no one outside You, me and the cactus in the room give a **** about. Plus, The Nasty's were WAY ahead of their time! These were the guys that were wearing all black and doing the counter-culture look with leatherjackets and chains before that kind of thing became huge in wrestling with the attitude era.

Everything you just said here. Nobody knows that crap. The people they're tryna gather don't know what the Nasty Boys can or can't bring to the table. They don't know how they could be used better. And they damn sure don't know what the Nasty Boys used to represent. All they're gonna SEE when they flick in to Spike TV are exactly what's given in front of them. And that's apparently two guys chasing an invisible asthma tank.

The fact is, everyone could "be used better". They could be doing some maniacal beastly stuff with Samoa Joe and megapush him to the top, they could bring Daniels out of his rut and have him shine in the spotlight again. They could.. well, NOT do the things they do. It all comes back to what Remi said. Not many are gonna recommend stuff that sucks. A TNA fan shouldn't recommend someone to watch because of what they COULD do but because of what they're just doing.

[Linsolv]

Okay, I'm gonna step onto this landmine here, but...

It's really hard for me to take Daniels seriously whenever I see his so-called "Palm strikes." They don't even look they could hurt a newborn kitten, if he had spikes attached to his palms.

NB: I haven't seen any of his ROH stuff, so if this is a new development, my bad.

[jesterx7769]

He hasn't really been pushed solid in a while and given a chance to work a great strong style match. The matches between Joe/Styles/Daniels were a great American version of strong style wrestling and were intense. Now the matches on TV are 5 minutes long and usually not taken seriously/gimmicky. (Nastys w/Jimmy Hart actually in the match and winning, Beer Money vs Jarret, vs Hernandez, Love vs daffney, RVD vs Sting, Flair and Hogan in the ring, just pulling these from two weeks)

On a side note, like it or not, this is why I actually enjoyed NXT on Tuesday b/c it was basically all matches and its been a long time since I've seen 30 minutes (or so) of matches that weren't a joke (on either TNA or RAW)

[TommyDreamerFan]

Good God quit making me out to be a TNA Mark, when they do stuff I don't like I've been noting here.

And your right, The Nasty boys in TNA is keeping Matt Morgan/Pope/Anderson/Wolfe/Hernandez/BeutifulPeople/Daffney from getting pushed... OH WAIT! <.<

Okay, removing my TNA Rose Colored Glasses, The Nastys are giving Team 3D something to do thats not the TNA Tag Titles. It's important to keep them on TV, but away from the rest of the tag division because they don't need the belts.

Okay and hey, you want me to come down on TNA like the rest of you? Okay here goes!

If you want to talk people that are a waste of TV time that Hogan brought in, why aren't y'all complaining about Scott Hall? He's not even in condition to put on his bloody ring gear for Christ sakes! At most, if you pressed me to find use for Scott, I'd make him a manager but you know what? Why use Hall in that role when you got Raven backstage doing nothing? Why do a Hall/Nash feud that would of been more interesting 7 years ago when Hall could of actually did something. ELIMINATE HALL! Make it 6-Pac/Nash because at least Waltman is decent in the ring! Hell! Rhino isn't doing anything, do Nash/Rhino!

The only positive of the feud is that it just might give Eric Young a tad bit of a rub, but the only rub he'd be getting is being associated with Nash. And I need to stress the only reason I am complaining is because of the shape Hall is in. If he was still rocking the way he way 5 years ago bear minimum the angles alone have been interesting but then it's ruined when he's wrestling in a pair of jeans and TNA sweatshirt he wrote the words "WolfPac" on with a sharpie! THAT WOULD MAKE TNA SEEM AMATEURISH TO THE WWESHEEPLE, not a blown up Knobbs in the ring yelling "Welcome To Nastyville!" NO!

But oh okay The out of shape Nasty's, who still basically resemble who they were back when in their primes, who are still able to do the same stuff they did in their primes because all they did is brawl, who could still draw heat from the casual crowd, who people want to see when their feuding against Team 3D in an old school tag feud, who at very least post the Team 3D feud might be able to put over The Motor City Machine-guns in another feud. THOSE GUYS ARE THE SMOKING GUN OF WHAT'S HORRIBLE IN TNA! NOT HALL! <.<

Not to mention Rob Terry, Global Champion, has all the skills of The Ultimate Warrior. I mean if you really want to complain about work rate. Oh but I guess we can excuse him as well because he's young talent right? Certainly more fans are going to want to see Big Rob's feud then Team3D/Nastyboys because he's such a huge name. (actually, in all fairness, I think Big Rob is the only one in TNA with the look of a champion right now so I really do hope his wrestling skills improve)

One last thing, it's much much easier to look at something and dump on it rather then try to see the big picture and the reasoning behind something. Unlike the rest of you, so quick to assume TNA has all ready lost their war with the WWE and that there is no hope for ratings climb, I'm waiting till at least DECEMBER before I say TNA has no hope on Mondays. If it's been one year and their still barely holding a 1.0 fine. Move it back to Thursdays but by then I optimistically believe they'll be doing roughly the same numbers they were doing on Thursdays before the move. And won't that be monumental?

Pssh probably not for most. People will look at that and say "Oh look how pathetic they are! It took them a whole year just to get back to where they where one year prior" Completely disregarding, that you know, they built up a fanbase in little over a year.

[TommyDreamerFan]

WWE are successful because they're running simple storylines with relatable characters where they give the fans a reason to care. TNA doesn't. They don't give the fans a reason to care about what happens. Which is fine if you're ROH and are putting on spectacular matches and telling stories that way, but iMpact is, what 80% talking?

Really I don't get this assumption of yours that only simpletons like WWE and sophisticated wrestling viewers (annoying smarks) should enjoy TNA. WWE is stale and too talky, but it's decent. It makes sense. TNA is garbage.

In fact I'd say a fair bit of the TNA fanbase are TNASheeple. These people watch TNA specifically because it's not WWE. They'll watch anything that's not WWE and call it brilliant to decry the competition.

So what? Trying to get people to get behind Kurt Angle, a guy doing a freaking patriotic gimmick going against a loudmouth jerk like Kennedy. Oh yeah so not relatable.

A fun loving baby face like Pope getting beaten down by heels, contenuing to wrestling on an injured ankle. GOD I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT!

Abyss going from a pathetic mess to a man of great confidence because of Hogan's ring, most likely he'll lose the ring and find out he's been the monster all the long and not the ring. Oh yeah, thats not so simple I haven't seen that story done in other medium.

Eric Bischoff being an jerk boss, who you know is going to turn on Hogan eventually, torturing two company guys that only want to work Foley/Jarrett. HELLO AUSTIN/MCMAHON REVISTED!


I AM NOT SAYING THE TNA PRODUCT IS BETTER THEN THE WWE PRODUCT!!! I AM SAYING THE TNA PRODUCT IS JUST AS GOOD, PLUS IT'S A MILLION TIMES MORE FRESH!

The reason I don't watch WWE currently isn't because I hate it, it's because I'm bored with everything I've seen that I can see on it (admittedly if I could watch Smackdown, I'd be interested in seeing what they're doing with CM Punk).

[akujy]

If you want to talk people that are a waste of TV time that Hogan brought in, why aren't y'all complaining about Scott Hall?

I've just been reading some of these posts and...you think no one has been talking about Hall? Read the last pages,for crying out loud. Everyone's been complaining about him!

My God...i can see the light! I had an epiphany! The Nastys are the world's greatest tag team EVER, (NOT) just because they did the counter-culture look with leather jackets and chains before the attitude era! My GAWD KING! They were wearing all black!They were so ahead of their time! This one is a slobberknocker!!! How didn't i see this one early? They totally rock because they kick assez and they beat up people with chairz and they jump into tablez! By GAWD!!!!

SOrry, but i coudn't resist! :rolleyes:

I'm gald you didn't! LMAO! :D

[Linsolv]

I havent mentioned Scott Hall because I lumped him together with Syxx Pac, and because the name "Waltman" comes so much easier to the tongue.

Honestly the only reason. But I'm a relative latecomer.

I've got an idea! Do Joe/EY! Then, you can give Joe a hilarious squash match at the PPV, that only lasts like 5 minutes of DANG THAT LOOKS LIKE IT HURTS and people can continue not to care about EY.

The WolfPac bit looked retarded, but then again so does Scott Hall, so perhaps it was smart after all.

I'm going to go on record here and say that I think tag wrestling is boring and I don't like watching it. Exception: MCMG, and anything with Prince Devitt (Who I think would be smart for TNA to try to bring in, tbh...) I mark for Alex Shelley and Fergal Devitt.

Incidentally, what they're doing with CM Punk is giving him a stable.

[shawn michaels 82]

"A fan asked Eric Bischoff the following question on his Facebook page: Why aren't you commenting on your thoughts on this week's ratings. They weren't better but I think everyone would like to hear what you think. Bischoff replied with this: Markus...you need to get a life." - (From Wrestlingexposed.com)

What on God's name?? So he wants the fans to get a life? Good! How about if they started their new life not watching TNA? Seriously...this is not the way to respond to ratings questions...This guy knows zero about beeing diplomatic...

[Linsolv]

Okay -
1: Bischoff's really more creative than PR, as I understand it.

2: I gotta imagine he's feeling the heat, and probably just wants to be left alone right now.
At least that's how I'd feel. Maybe that's why I'll never be booking a national promotion. Or probably an independant promotion either, but who knows. I'm still young, things might make serious changes.

EDIT: Or he's working us. Props to Zeel for pointing out that suggestion.

[Zeel1]

He's working us, clearly. :p

[shawn michaels 82]

Okay -
1: Bischoff's really more creative than PR, as I understand it.

2: I gotta imagine he's feeling the heat, and probably just wants to be left alone right now.
At least that's how I'd feel. Maybe that's why I'll never be booking a national promotion. Or probably an independant promotion either, but who knows. I'm still young, things might make serious changes.

Keeping quiet would be better then saying what he did. But come on...what was he thinking when the MNW re-started?? "I'm just gona get a bunch of old timers in the ring, push them, focus my shows on them...and...Voila! That´s the secret to beat WWE! How can i be the first one to discover this? I'm so great!" :D

[Linsolv]

*shrug* I dunno. I'm gonna blame this one on Russo. That's what everyone else does, and he doesn't seem to mind that much.

[shawn michaels 82]

*shrug* I dunno. I'm gonna blame this one on Russo. That's what everyone else does, and he doesn't seem to mind that much.

Well, Russo was already a writter before he entered the wrestling business. And the guy is creative, but that doesn't mean he knows how to put an entire show together. That is why he is generally the first to be blamed. Wait...i'm a writer too...should i apply to a booking position on TNA? :D

[TommyDreamerFan]

"A fan asked Eric Bischoff the following question on his Facebook page: Why aren't you commenting on your thoughts on this week's ratings. They weren't better but I think everyone would like to hear what you think. Bischoff replied with this: Markus...you need to get a life." - (From Wrestlingexposed.com)

What on God's name?? So he wants the fans to get a life? Good! How about if they started their new life not watching TNA? Seriously...this is not the way to respond to ratings questions...This guy knows zero about beeing diplomatic...

Bischoff probably thinks it's some smart-mark trying to be a jerk, and you know what? The kid probably was! Somebody whose trolling TNA workers on Facebook probably doesn't watch TNA anyway.

[justtxyank]

It took years for WCW to beat the WWF in the wars and people often forget that the early product that Bischoff was putting out with Hogan on top was AWFUL. We went from getting main events like Flair vs Vader to main events of Hogan vs Brutus Beefcake.

[shawn michaels 82]

Bischoff probably thinks it's some smart-mark trying to be a jerk, and you know what? The kid probably was! Somebody whose trolling TNA workers on Facebook probably doesn't watch TNA anyway.

Maybe this is why people tag you as a TNA super mark. :D I could do the exact same question to him if i saw TNA. Or another one even worse. And who said he was trollin? it's a legitimate question. People who care for TNA (and even those who don't) want to know about these kind of things. It's normal.

[Daffanka]

So what? Trying to get people to get behind Kurt Angle, a guy doing a freaking patriotic gimmick going against a loudmouth jerk like Kennedy. Oh yeah so not relatable.

A fun loving baby face like Pope getting beaten down by heels, contenuing to wrestling on an injured ankle. GOD I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT!

Abyss going from a pathetic mess to a man of great confidence because of Hogan's ring, most likely he'll lose the ring and find out he's been the monster all the long and not the ring. Oh yeah, thats not so simple I haven't seen that story done in other medium.

Eric Bischoff being an jerk boss, who you know is going to turn on Hogan eventually, torturing two company guys that only want to work Foley/Jarrett. HELLO AUSTIN/MCMAHON REVISTED!


I AM NOT SAYING THE TNA PRODUCT IS BETTER THEN THE WWE PRODUCT!!! I AM SAYING THE TNA PRODUCT IS JUST AS GOOD, PLUS IT'S A MILLION TIMES MORE FRESH!

The reason I don't watch WWE currently isn't because I hate it, it's because I'm bored with everything I've seen that I can see on it (admittedly if I could watch Smackdown, I'd be interested in seeing what they're doing with CM Punk).

Except the Kennedy feud just about ended when Angle bashed the hell out of him with a chair. But they keep on trucking. It's also just about only the decent storyline in TNA.

Pope is just drifting around waiting for his shot. That's very clumsy booking.

The WWE hall of fame ring business is nonsense and idiotic. Never mind the stupidity of the thing, but it's like they're telling us that their product is second rate to WWE.

Bischoff being a jerk boss is fine except he inserts himself into every angle and the people he abuse never get comeuppance. Also he's not Vince and Jarrett isn't Stone Cold so that's a pretty dumb comparison.

The TNA product is far, far worse than WWE. They're not equal. Not on any level. WWE is stale and RAW is boring but it makes sense. There's no Samoa Joe being kidnapped by ninjas. No X-division champ being squashed by a guy leaving the company. No Bischoff in every damn angle. No Nasty Boys to stink up the ring. No Jarrett being a total wuss as the face. No X-Pac and Scott Hall. No Kevin Nash. NO HOGAN

[Zeel1]

Bischoff being a jerk boss is fine except he inserts himself into every angle and the people he abuse never get comeuppance.

I'm guessing you didn't see the head-shaving on the last show? That sure seemed like some comeuppance to me. :p

[PeterHilton]

We're not the life blood of this industry, merely the most vocal part of it.

I don't get you. You completely understand that casual fans make up the majority of the paying fanbase, but then you complain because the E caters to the casual fan.

And **** y'all, The Nasty's if used right can be an asset. These guys have the charisma, they can get the crowd to hate them, just keep their matches under ten minute brawls. Build them up and then let them work with guys like Shelly and Sabin a great tag team that no one outside You, me and the cactus in the room give a **** about. Plus, The Nasty's were WAY ahead of their time! These were the guys that were wearing all black and doing the counter-culture look with leatherjackets and chains before that kind of thing became huge in wrestling with the attitude era.

ROFL

Listen, i get that YOU like the Nasty Boys. And that would be totally fine if you didn't spend so much time insisting how great they are to the rest of the world.

Just accept that you like them and that not many others do. It's fine.

[Linsolv]

Yeah! Like me and The Miz! He's a twerp, but he's a twerp I mark for. But nobody ELSE knows about it. Shoot. Wait.

[Nedew]

Man, i love reading this thread :D

[Hyde Hill]

He's working us, clearly. :p

First off. Damn I missed a whole discussion about TNA! lolz

Second. I have been on EB's facebook on occasion and that guy was living there so it was more a response to that then the actual question. Plus EB already gave an answer about the bad ratings of the week before where he answered it was dissapointing but part of a long term strategy. Plus when EB is in the mood he goes In Character as Zeel pointed out.

Edit: He wasn't trolling he was overposting.

Long story short about TNA. Yes the IWC is more critical of them then the WWE in general and one of the main reasons I think is because everyone wants TNA to be what they want to see in wrestling and not so much what it is. There are more but that is an underlying thing I think.

Yes TNA's product isn't much worse then the WWE's but in order to compete it needs to be better in order to seriously compete.

TNA has all the ingredients roster wise etc but always seem to screw up stuff . They also sometimes have great storylines and matches probably on a more regular occasion then the E imho but there is a lot more crap that comes with that giving it a worse ratio.

For instance WWE 1 Great 8 Mediocre 1 Crap and TNA 2 Great 5 Mediocre 3 Crap. And a lot of that crap is easily identifiable which is so damn frustrating.


Generally I have been defending TNA mostly when stuff was said that was a false perception or overly focused on the negatives imho. But I have always tried to point out all the mistakes as well. And before this whole debate started I pointed out my feelings so far and the net result so far has been zero leening on negative.

Damn turned into a rant when I wasn't planning on one. Well at least I am no longer the number 1 TNA mark around lolz.

[Linsolv]

I changed my mind about you, Jester! Then again, that wasn't an argument. That was me finding out where your avatar came from.

(Changed from being afraid of gettin' punched to not being very afraid.)

[Hyde Hill]

Man, i love reading this thread :D

Yep like I said before you can say a lot about TNA but they always give you a lot to say about them lolz.

[jesterx7769]

I changed my mind about you, Jester! Then again, that wasn't an argument. That was me finding out where your avatar came from.

I decided to be nice as I have steered away from stuff as of late. I

[shawn michaels 82]

It took years for WCW to beat the WWF in the wars and people often forget that the early product that Bischoff was putting out with Hogan on top was AWFUL. We went from getting main events like Flair vs Vader to main events of Hogan vs Brutus Beefcake.

Geez...I wonder how that ended? Oh wait...we all know how it ended...with a massive unemployment line. :D

[Moe Hunter]

And your right, The Nasty boys in TNA is keeping Matt Morgan/Pope/Anderson/Wolfe/Hernandez/BeutifulPeople/Daffney from getting pushed... OH WAIT! <.<

Wait nothing. The Beautiful people were off TV for THREE WEEKS in a row. That's not a push. Wolfe and Pope are never the focus, always just a background acessory to whatever Hogan and Flair want to do this week.

Okay, removing my TNA Rose Colored Glasses, The Nastys are giving Team 3D something to do thats not the TNA Tag Titles. It's important to keep them on TV, but away from the rest of the tag division because they don't need the belts.
3D can stay in Japan. They got stale ten years ago (and didn't Bubba say he was retiring a year or so ago?). I really don't see how it's important they stay on TV at all. There are plenty of better workers who could actually use the spotlight to make something of themselves.

If you want to talk people that are a waste of TV time that Hogan brought in, why aren't y'all complaining about Scott Hall? He's not even in condition to put on his bloody ring gear for Christ sakes!
As it has been covered in great depth here already. I was a Hall mark, but he has NO business in the ring, and he takes up way too much time on TNA along with the rest of "The Band" storyline.

Not to mention Rob Terry, Global Champion, has all the skills of The Ultimate Warrior. I mean if you really want to complain about work rate. Oh but I guess we can excuse him as well because he's young talent right?
Please point me to one post praising Rob Terry. He's a useless meathead.

One last thing, it's much much easier to look at something and dump on it rather then try to see the big picture and the reasoning behind something. Unlike the rest of you, so quick to assume TNA has all ready lost their war with the WWE and that there is no hope for ratings climb, I'm waiting till at least DECEMBER before I say TNA has no hope on Mondays. If it's been one year and their still barely holding a 1.0 fine.
It's been two and a hald months and they haven't held the 1.0 already. Here's the thing - all that the huge TNA supporters ever say is "they just need ___, give it time, you'll see". Okay so they've gone from Weekly PPVs to a weekly TV show and monthly PPVs. They've been extended to a 2 hour show "to better utilize the talent", and now they've moved to Mondays. They've had huge names like Kurt Angle, Sting and now Hogan.

What is it *actually* going to take before they see success? They've had 7 years and all the breaks in the world. Spike and Panda bailed them out financially when they needed it, even.

So people can talk about a "long term plan" all they want, but when the booking is so awful all the way across the board, there's no way it can build to the future.

Step 1: Failure
Step 2: Repeat Failure
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Success!

Move it back to Thursdays but by then I optimistically believe they'll be doing roughly the same numbers they were doing on Thursdays before the move. And won't that be monumental?
No, it really wouldn't.

Pssh probably not for most. People will look at that and say "Oh look how pathetic they are! It took them a whole year just to get back to where they where one year prior" Completely disregarding, that you know, they built up a fanbase in little over a year.
How does that logic work? That they re-built a new audience after the existing one dropped off, or that keeping the same audience is somehow a new audience?


So what? Trying to get people to get behind Kurt Angle, a guy doing a freaking patriotic gimmick going against a loudmouth jerk like Kennedy. Oh yeah so not relatable.
Nevermind that most of the segments have been really poor, and that the whole "army medals" thing is lame and... wait for it... Completely unrelatable for anyone outside the US, let alone plenty of people within the US who have also expressed their nonchalance to the story.

A fun loving baby face like Pope getting beaten down by heels, contenuing to wrestling on an injured ankle. GOD I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT!
Nevermind that Pope is one of the many victims of having ridiculously short matches some times, then much longer matches others, often against the same opponent, with no explanation for how they won/lost in such record time when obviously they *can* hang a lot longer.

Also the very shaky way they're treating his push/title shot. Taking him off TV, throwing Abyss and JEFF HARDY at AJ in the meantime... Pope is sitting in the backseat here.

Abyss going from a pathetic mess to a man of great confidence because of Hogan's ring, most likely he'll lose the ring and find out he's been the monster all the long and not the ring. Oh yeah, thats not so simple I haven't seen that story done in other medium.
I've never seen it done so annoyingly in any other medium. Abyss sucks and grates on me every time he's on TV. Hogan is boring and shouldn't be taking up so much goddamn time. And so what, it's a story that's been overtold elsewhere, so we're supposed to like it here?

Eric Bischoff being an jerk boss, who you know is going to turn on Hogan eventually, torturing two company guys that only want to work Foley/Jarrett. HELLO AUSTIN/MCMAHON REVISTED!
No one cares about Jarrett. He has always stunk up the joint and never earned a scrap of the belts that Russo has given him over the past 10 years. And a non-wrestling Jarrett is even more annoying and pointless.


The reason I don't watch WWE currently isn't because I hate it, it's because I'm bored with everything I've seen that I can see on it (admittedly if I could watch Smackdown, I'd be interested in seeing what they're doing with CM Punk).
Good choice. Anything and everything Punk has done since the start of his feud with Jeff Hardy has been absolute gold and infinitely better than anything TNA has put on. He's the best worker in the business today as far as I'm concerned.

[Nedew]

Geez...I wonder how that ended? Oh wait...we all know how it ended...with a massive unemployment line. :D

In fairness, it wasn't all clear-cut "oh WCW sucked and failed from the start through to the end". In 1997, they were well ahead and Vince was struggling. Let's not neglect how significant that is.

[Slagaholic]

And **** y'all, The Nasty's if used right can be an asset. These guys have the charisma, they can get the crowd to hate them, just keep their matches under ten minute brawls. Build them up and then let them work with guys like Shelly and Sabin a great tag team that no one outside You, me and the cactus in the room give a **** about. Plus, The Nasty's were WAY ahead of their time! These were the guys that were wearing all black and doing the counter-culture look with leatherjackets and chains before that kind of thing became huge in wrestling with the attitude era.
You are not alone.

Even if you don't agree with a word TDF says, can't you at least admire the passion?

"A fan asked Eric Bischoff the following question on his Facebook page: Why aren't you commenting on your thoughts on this week's ratings. They weren't better but I think everyone would like to hear what you think. Bischoff replied with this: Markus...you need to get a life." - (From Wrestlingexposed.com)

What on God's name?? So he wants the fans to get a life? Good! How about if they started their new life not watching TNA? Seriously...this is not the way to respond to ratings questions...This guy knows zero about beeing diplomatic...

How's your family life?

The TNA product is far, far worse than WWE. They're not equal. Not on any level. WWE is stale and RAW is boring but it makes sense. There's no Samoa Joe being kidnapped by ninjas. No X-division champ being squashed by a guy leaving the company. No Bischoff in every damn angle. No Nasty Boys to stink up the ring. No Jarrett being a total wuss as the face. No X-Pac and Scott Hall. No Kevin Nash. NO HOGAN

I understand your frustrations.

However!

It's only been 2 and a half months and it's clear they're trying to do too much. They made one very smart decision in turning AJ Styles heel. They turned the face of the company heel, and it's worked. Turning Styles and pairing him up with Flair allows TNA to have a man on top that can consistently deliver good main events. That is something Bischoff did not do in WCW.

So as valid your concerns are with TNA's booking, at least the man with the World title can deliver in the main event.

I like the Kevin Nash and EY vs The Band story for two reasons: I was a huge mark of the Wolfpac, and this storyline has the potential to move Eric Young up the card. Waltman/Hall won't last long in TNA. It's a neck-and-neck race between TNA running out of storylines for them and the inevitable relapse. Regardless, Nash and EY will be put together in another program, either as a tag team (silly) or turning one of them heel (better). Either way, EY will come out on top. Giving him just the help he needs.

Bischoff's character is being too much of a jerk to not get his ass kicked and disappear later. If Bischoff is this same character taking up this much TV time in 2 months I'll eat my hat.

Yes I realize I just booked TNA to support my liking them. It's not very logical, but I'm not a very logical person.

[shawn michaels 82]

How's your family life?

Perfect, thanks for asking.

[Slagaholic]

By lying you proved my point. He didn't owe the asker an answer. So Bischoff decided to deflect the question, just like you did. It would have been nice if he had answered the question honestly, but the fact that he didn't is hardly something you can hold against him.

It is silly goosery to ask someone a personal question and expect an (honest) answer.

[shawn michaels 82]

By lying you proved my point. He didn't owe the asker an answer. So Bischoff decided to deflect the question, just like you did. It would have been nice if he had answered the question honestly, but the fact that he didn't is hardly something you can hold against him.

It is silly goosery to ask someone a personal question and expect an (honest) answer.

First of all, it wasn't a personal question. His opinions about TNA's product are part of his professional life.

2nd: Are you kidding me? Serioulsy...are you? I don't know how you're family life is at the moment (and i don't give a flying F) but i don't assume it's bad or good. Mine IS perfect, thank God. Why wouldn't it be? Unless you're...me...my paren´s,my brothers,or my girlfriend, how could you even assume i'm lying? Why the hell would i lie? Sure, you don't know me, but i'm a cold SOB (Greg House type but without the shenanigans) and i'm not afraid of saying the truth and telling what i think. Hell i'm the guys that said: So Benoit killed his son, so what? I don't care what you think of my family life's state, as long as you keep it yo yourself. hell, i don't have to prove you squat. But having to read to a post where you call me liar with absolutely no proof? Don't you ever do that, son. You were still wearing diappers and i already had to put up with...guys like you. (To be nice) This conversation is over. And as for the future conversations, let's keep them about wrestling.

[Linsolv]

What he was saying was basically, that you glossed over details -- it's to be expected, since it IS very personal. However, it was a bit rude of him, even if he was trying to prove a point.

EDIT: Forgot to add my conclusion. "The reason he points out such glossing is because he's saying that Bischoff is essentially doing the same thing."

However, on the other hand, your point (that Bischoff was not asked a personal question) is entirely valid.

I hope everyone can continue being more-or-less friends from here on out. :D

[Slagaholic]

First of all, it wasn't a personal question. His opinions about TNA's product are part of his professional life.
His canned opinion is part of his professional life, what he truly believes is part of his personal life.

Why wouldn't it be? Unless you're...me...my paren´s,my brothers,or my girlfriend, how could you even assume i'm lying?
Because you're a human being with emotions, goals, and insecurities.

Why the hell would i lie?
Because you're posting on a message board and feel like you have an image to keep up. And don't even bother, I'll give you the "I don't care what people think of me" retort and save you the typing.

Sure, you don't know me, but i'm a cold SOB (Greg House type but without the shenanigans) and i'm not afraid of saying the truth and telling what i think.
Saying that you're the "Greg House type" gives me more reason to think you're lying about having a "perfect family life."

Hell i'm the guys that said: So Benoit killed his son, so what? I don't care what you think of my family life's state, as long as you keep it yo yourself. hell, i don't have to prove you squat. But having to read to a post where you call me liar with absolutely no proof? Don't you ever do that, son. You were still wearing diappers and i already had to put up with...guys like you. (To be nice) This conversation is over. And as for the future conversations, let's keep them about wrestling.
For someone with nothing to prove, you sure spend a lot of time trying to do so.

I agree, let's keep it in the ring.

[shawn michaels 82]

For someone with nothing to prove, you sure spend a lot of time trying to do so.

I agree, let's keep it in the ring.

I have nothing to prove, that doesn't mean i'll take crap from anyone, That's different. But i actually see no point in continuing this debate about personal lifes. I don't like you, but hey, i don't dislike you. Hell, i don't even know you. And that's why i don't make assumptions on you're family life. ANd still...you keep taling about it. As i said, and you already agreed, let's keep it in the ring. End of discussion. ;)

[Slagaholic]

If I didn't like you, I wouldn't have had a conversation with you. :( I'm so alone...

[shawn michaels 82]

If I didn't like you, I wouldn't have had a conversation with you. :( I'm so alone...

Buy a dog? :D

[Slagaholic]

Mother won't let me get one...

[Remianen]

****, take a look at a promotion that did cater to the geeks like us like ECW. What were they pulling on TNN? .5! Nearly the same amount of advertising too! Hell for that matter, someone one pull up what ROH on HDNet is doing!

We're not the life blood of this industry, merely the most vocal part of it.

You are absolutely right. But Bentley/Maybach/Rolls Royce/Lexus/Infiniti/Mercedes aren't the lifeblood of their industries. Doesn't stop them from being ridiculously profitable and highly respected and sought after. I'd like to suggest something to you. Check the demographics of the promotions you mentioned. Whose bottom lines sagged during the "economic downturn" and whose didn't? It is possible to be profitable without pandering to the widest possible audience. But profitability isn't the goal here. It's ridiculously profitable that these folks are shooting for. It's 'so popular, we're an institution' level (which, I should remind you, has already largely been achieved by the competition).

And **** y'all, The Nasty's if used right can be an asset. These guys have the charisma, they can get the crowd to hate them, just keep their matches under ten minute brawls. Build them up and then let them work with guys like Shelly and Sabin a great tag team that no one outside You, me and the cactus in the room give a **** about. Plus, The Nasty's were WAY ahead of their time! These were the guys that were wearing all black and doing the counter-culture look with leatherjackets and chains before that kind of thing became huge in wrestling with the attitude era.

The same can be said for ANY tag team that worked in the WWF at any time over the last 20 years.

You are not alone.

Even if you don't agree with a word TDF says, can't you at least admire the passion?

No, because it's blind passion. He's doing the textual equivalent of pressing his palms against his ears and shouting "LA LA LA LA LA LA". This is the same kind of blind passion that led Detroit Lions fans to believe Matt Millen was an awesome General Manager. This same blind passion placed my hometown New York Knicks in such a deep hole, they had to basically throw away two full seasons of performance just to possibly fix it. In short, with those kinds of fans, nothing changes until the rock bottom point because their tireless blind optimism won't demand it.

In business, as in life, the best clients/fans to have are those who will call you on it when you do something stupid. I don't want friends who tell me I'm awesome when I screw up. I want friends who tell me "Man, that was just dumb. What made you think that was a good idea?". I don't want clients who keep their mouths shut when something goes wrong. I want them to come to me and tell me so I can fix it.

You know what the rating on that clusterfuzzle is likely to do? Make them look at what might have caused it and try to remedy it. Do you know what would've happened if TDF had his way and everyone recommended TNA to their friends and that clusterfuzzle got a 1.8? Think about that for a minute (or don't).

[Slagaholic]

Well I admire his passion, goshdarnit!

[PeterHilton]

However!

It's only been 2 and a half months and it's clear they're trying to do too much.

No it fuzzing hasn't.

TNA has been booking like this FOR YEARS.

Moe Hunter said it best: TNA supporters have been using "they just need ___, give it time, you'll see" FOREVER.

TNA has done nothing to make me believe they are going to figure things out. Nothing. I don't owe this company any benefit of the doubt because they haven't earned any.

Again, Moe said it best: they've had every break in the world handed to them. TV slots, financial backing, big name talent, PPV deals that other companies would die for, mainstream media attention..and they still put out what is basically a piss poor product.

They don't desereve to succeed. They really don't even deserve the fanbase they have. They definitely don't deserve a massive surge in popularity.

When this company goes away it will be seen as the biggest waste of talent since the WCW and AWA. Just one giant colossal clusterfizzle from day one...

EDIT: for clusterfuzzle

[Slagaholic]

That's your opinion. I enjoy TNA, you can't never convince me to not be a fan. I even admitted in the post that the whole thing was my opinion.

If TNA fails, that may be what the history books say, but I'll have fond memories of watching TNA.

If that makes you think negatively of me, that's fine. I don't think negatively of you. :)

[PeterHilton]

That's your opinion. I enjoy TNA, you can't never convince me to not be a fan. I even admitted in the post that the whole thing was my opinion.

If TNA fails, that may be what the history books say, but I'll have fond memories of watching TNA.

If that makes you think negatively of me, that's fine. I don't think negatively of you. :)

I don't think negatively of you. But I don't think it's at all accurate to say "It's only been 2 months etc"

And I also don't honestly see how you can watch TNA week in week out and think that's truly entertaining. It's a hot mess.

The WWE is predictable and formulaic and not terribly original.

But they aren't making any huge, drastic, glaringly obvious mistakes either.

I'd rather watch "predictable" than "trainwreck" any day of the week.

[Slagaholic]

I like it partly because it's a hot mess. I don't judge booking decisions when they happen, I don't analyze the angles and worker usage. I just watch it like it's a TV show. It's enjoyable to me.

[TommyDreamerFan]

You are absolutely right. But Bentley/Maybach/Rolls Royce/Lexus/Infiniti/Mercedes aren't the lifeblood of their industries. Doesn't stop them from being ridiculously profitable and highly respected and sought after. I'd like to suggest something to you. Check the demographics of the promotions you mentioned. Whose bottom lines sagged during the "economic downturn" and whose didn't? It is possible to be profitable without pandering to the widest possible audience. But profitability isn't the goal here. It's ridiculously profitable that these folks are shooting for. It's 'so popular, we're an institution' level (which, I should remind you, has already largely been achieved by the competition).


Okay good point, but ECW didn't catch on fire in popularity until post-mortem and it was added to the WWE fiction (first with Invasion, and the One Night Stands and eventual ressurection... And someone asked me this earlier, no, I considered it TRUE ECW up until the point Heyman left. Only after the PPV did I cease watching because it became just another B-Show.)


The same can be said for ANY tag team that worked in the WWF at any time over the last 20 years.


The only other tag team I'd bring in to TNA that I'd say has any value would be Too Cool. OF COURSE, that merely has to do with me being a huge mark for them in my youth and we never EVER got to see them reunite. For the life of me I'll never understand why they picked up Rikishi with out Too Cool to go with him because he's nothing with out them.

No, because it's blind passion. He's doing the textual equivalent of pressing his palms against his ears and shouting "LA LA LA LA LA LA". This is the same kind of blind passion that led Detroit Lions fans to believe Matt Millen was an awesome General Manager. This same blind passion placed my hometown New York Knicks in such a deep hole, they had to basically throw away two full seasons of performance just to possibly fix it. In short, with those kinds of fans, nothing changes until the rock bottom point because their tireless blind optimism won't demand it.

In business, as in life, the best clients/fans to have are those who will call you on it when you do something stupid. I don't want friends who tell me I'm awesome when I screw up. I want friends who tell me "Man, that was just dumb. What made you think that was a good idea?". I don't want clients who keep their mouths shut when something goes wrong. I want them to come to me and tell me so I can fix it.

You know what the rating on that clusterfuzzle is likely to do? Make them look at what might have caused it and try to remedy it. Do you know what would've happened if TDF had his way and everyone recommended TNA to their friends and that clusterfuzzle got a 1.8? Think about that for a minute (or don't).

Thats a load of BS, sir. Just because I don't get all negative after TWO shows, because I do enjoy the product and I disagree with you guys on book strategy I'm the guy saying La La La?

<.< Okay I can see that kinda, so I'll go back to being a more reserved poster.

[sabataged]

Personally I think all the cussing and arguing is a little ridiculous. I don't know why a mod hasn't stepped in like every other thread where this crap goes down. Maybe it has something to do with the people doing the arguing...who knows

[mike b]

Some one please make a time machine so i can travel back to when the territories were alive and strong. At least then we had a dozen feds to follow with alot more talent then whats out there now.
Northwest,Mid South,Mid Southern,World Class,California,Florida ohhhhh how i long for those days again.

TNA is trying but i just dont see it happening.Samoa Joe needs to get out of there and head over to the WWE as does sting.

[justtxyank]

Geez...I wonder how that ended? Oh wait...we all know how it ended...with a massive unemployment line. :D

Yeah but it went out of business because of financial reasons. They almost put Vince out business.

[shawn michaels 82]

Yeah but it went out of business because of financial reasons. They almost put Vince out business.

Yeah, that is also true. How wonder how things would be today if they succeeded in putting him out of business?

[shawn michaels 82]

I like it partly because it's a hot mess. I don't judge booking decisions when they happen, I don't analyze the angles and worker usage. I just watch it like it's a TV show. It's enjoyable to me.

Good God! I miss doing this, but it's impossible nowadays. TNA and WWE don't put on that kind of product these days. Even WWE, wich is only predictable but not necessarilly bad, doesn't entertain me enough for me to forget and/or stop analyzing and judgind things. And it's been a (LONG) while since i was able to do that.

[justtxyank]

Yeah, that is also true. How wonder how things would be today if they succeeded in putting him out of business?

Pretty crappy probably.

[PeterHilton]

Thats a load of BS, sir. Just because I don't get all negative after TWO shows, because I do enjoy the product and I disagree with you guys on book strategy I'm the guy saying La La La?


This continues to make me nuts....do people honestly believe that the negativity towards TNA is about the ratings? Or that ONLY the last two show have had problems?

Have you guys been watching at all for the last 7 years?

That makes you the La La guy more than anything imo

I think it's great if you enjoy the product and we just happen to disagree. That's just a difference in opinion. But TNA's booking/storytelliing issues go back before Hulk and Eric appeared. Which is why it makes it more unlikely that they're going to het this back on track any time soon.

[Linsolv]

I've only been watching for 2 years (Okay, I think maybe 1 and a half)!

And most of that I spent not watching.

And the Main Event Mafia was really getting tiring. But Hogan insists "thing's are gonna change," so I figure I give him another few months before I call him a liar liar pants on fire.

Secretly, I like the new ring better. But my reasoning is rather childish: I really really like the look of raised walkways. First encountered them with NJPW and I've been hooked ever since.

[Hyde Hill]

Personally I think all the cussing and arguing is a little ridiculous. I don't know why a mod hasn't stepped in like every other thread where this crap goes down. Maybe it has something to do with the people doing the arguing...who knows

Agreed please keep it civil and if possible non personal guys. This is just a wrestling fed we are talking about that has a lot of glaring flaws but also some good points.

In the end the flaws are too big and too much for the general audiance to be able to accept them at the moment imho. And I know this falls in the if only category etc but TNA has had 2 major changes in management over the year so some of the problems can be attributed to that. I may be an eternal optimist and I will give them time again to see where this goes and I vowed a while back that if they brought in rvd I would continue to support, but atm TNA is making it hard.

btw people again seem to be forgetting that TNA is profitable for a while now and they wheren't to start out and that the ratings do not effect their profitibility so much. TNA right now has a 3 year deal with Spike and is still one of their highest rated shows so they will be on tv for a good time to come. Also the carters are strong financial backers eventhough its just a vanity project for Dixie. TNA is not going anywhere folks! If they will ever get the big time succes they are after that is another question.

[TommyDreamerFan]

This continues to make me nuts....do people honestly believe that the negativity towards TNA is about the ratings? Or that ONLY the last two show have had problems?

Have you guys been watching at all for the last 7 years?

That makes you the La La guy more than anything imo

I think it's great if you enjoy the product and we just happen to disagree. That's just a difference in opinion. But TNA's booking/storytelliing issues go back before Hulk and Eric appeared. Which is why it makes it more unlikely that they're going to het this back on track any time soon.

I don't know where suddenly this erupted into something that it's not. LOL. We're all just shooting the... for the lack of cursing, poo, over booking. Quite honestly I'm having a blast, and who wouldn't? It's a fun time to watch and see what this company is doing and bicker over it right or wrong. More so then watching WWE because it matters in the case of TNA.

I'm not a blind TNA mark, I watched them religiously in 2004 on TSN and stopped watching soon after they debuted on Spike TV because things got to be to ridiculous with the MEM and all the storylines in general and I couldn't stand the booking anymore. (and I should say I ordered a lot of 2004 TNA PPV and enjoyed them all.)

If TNA starts doing stuff I don't like, I'll quit wanting to watch it, but I gave them another chance the night Hogan took over and they've held my interest. Hell, they've resparked my interest in wrestling overall which ultimately led me back here to check to see if the new TEW even came out.

Ofcourse I've also been more lenient with TNA in the sense that, anything I see that I don't like I find myself going "okay... I wouldn't of done that but I'll hold off judging till I see the whole feud."

Good example? The fact anderson got taken down with 1 chairshot. Okay, that hurt the feud, in the grand scheme of the whole feud that's one blimish in what has otherwise been a pretty decent build to a PPV match. And if Anderson comes out on top in the end, I don't think it's going to hurt him in the long run. On a side note, I also do like how, twice, people have snuck up behind him while he was talking because I think that really shows that "wow this guy is so full of himself and a loudmouth he doesn't even see that his enemy is behind him".

Anyway, and more importantly, were bickering like friends not fighting like enemies... Unless you want me to go all Jim Cornette and be all "NO! YOUR WRONG AND I HOPE YOU FREAKING DIE!" :D

[TheOmniWarrior]

http://www.fanhouse.com/2010/03/20/even-after-all-these-years-daniels-stays-hungry-in-tnas-x-divi/?icid=main|main|dl1|link7|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fanhous e.com%2F2010%2F03%2F20%2Feven-after-all-these-years-daniels-stays-hungry-in-tnas-x-divi%2F Christopher daniels interview I saw on aol

[SaySo]

Yeah but it went out of business because of financial reasons. They almost put Vince out business.

Yet The Rock and Stone Cold comes out of the WWE during its low point in 1997 and WCW is sold to Vince.

[justtxyank]

Yet The Rock and Stone Cold comes out of the WWE during its low point in 1997 and WCW is sold to Vince.

I'm not sure what your point is? I don't think anyone here was under the impressions the Rock and Stone Cold never happened and the WWF was sold to Ted Turner...

[Wrestling Century]

I just watched The Rise & Fall of WCW documentary and I have to say, I personally think that it was unbiased.

[Hyde Hill]

Wrong thread mate. Please guys I see WCW popping up everywhere and not just here that it can use its own thread.

Disagree with the unbiased part. It presents itself as unbiased but it slightly manipulates stuff to the WWE version. "black saturday" for one and skips over the succesfull part.

[PeterHilton]

I just watched The Rise & Fall of WCW documentary and I have to say, I personally think that it was unbiased.

Yeah you're wrong. It's a work of pure propoganda.

[Slagaholic]

Godammit Flair, you just gave TNA their own version of "WHAT?" with the stupid "WOO" BS.

:(

Although him being in a wheelchair rules, and I guess Wolfe and Styles are officially an alliance.

[Linsolv]

What are you WHOO! talking WHOO! about, Slag WHOO! aholic? WHOO!

[Slagaholic]

I love Alex Shelley: "We've been in TNA longer than you've owned your Hardy Boyz starter kits"