The Official TNA Discussion Thread

[mystic]

I think it would be a fun project to make a list of who we would cut. Since we're all smarky.

The List Now:

Men:

Abyss
AJ Styles
Alex Shelley
Amazing Red
Brian Kendrick
Brutus Magnus
Bubba
Chris Sabin
Consequences Creed
D'Angelo Dinero
Daniels
Desmond Wolfe
Don West
Doug Williams
Dr. Stevie
Eric Bischoff
Eric Young
Generation Me (for some reason, listed as one person on the Roster page)
Hernandez
Homicide
Hulk Hogan
James Storm
Jay Lethal
Jeff Hardy
Jeff Jarett
Jeremy Borash
Jesse Neal
Jimmy Hart
Kazarian
Kevin Nash
Kiyoshi
Kurt Angle
Matt Morgan
Mr. Anderson
Nasty Boys (Again, listed as one person)
Orlando Jones
Raven
Rhino
Rick Flair
Rob Terry
Rob Van Dam
Robert Roode
Samoa Joe
Scott Hall
Sean Waltman
Shannon Moore
Shark Boy
Sting
Suicide
Team 3D (Weird. Wonder why Sabin and Shelley got separate pages, then...)
Tomko

Women:

Angelina Love
Christy Hemme
Daffney
Hamada
Lacey von Erich
Madison Rayne
ODB
Sarita
So Cal Val
Tara
Taylor Wilde
Velvet Sky

(I left off announcers, but kept on-screen personalities. And Don West, because he is in those stupid damn commercials.)

I also think it's interesting that the Women's roster is SO much shorter, and yet very nearly every woman has a reasonably large fanbase. As opposed to the men's side, where a lot of people are getting lost in the shuffle.

Based on this list I would let go of

Brian Kendrick
Bubba
Dr. Stevie
Jesse Neal
Jimmy Hart
Kiyoshi
Nasty Boys (Again, listed as one person)
Orlando Jones
Rob Terry
Scott Hall
Shark Boy
Suicide
Lacey von Erich

[Hyde Hill]

I just read a report that said since January TNA has ballooned to SEVENTY wrestlers. That has to be close to what the WWE has on its active roster with three brands, three television shows and multiple house shows a night.

This includes high priced guys like Flair, RVD, Hardy, Kennedy, etc.

Plus they got the expensive of going live every night as well as apparently running ads during Monday Night RAW and doing advertising in Times Square.

With all of these expenses ratings are the lowest they have been in four years and there has been barely a noticeable bump in house show and merchandise sales.

Even if TNA is heading in the right direction creatively these are some valid points there is no way TNA should have an active roster of 70 workers.


BTW props Stennick for not adding that financial troubles bs tagline that was added to that info.

[Moe Hunter]

The blair witch comment was in reference to the aborted Blonde Bitch Project. REMEMBER YOUR HISTORY FOLKS!

You might like to separate two different thoughts into their own sentences next time.

And yeah, the Blond Bitch project was *such* a hot angle :rolleyes:

I agree that Pirate Burchill was awesome, but it really is only hearsay that "Vince didn't know what PotC was".

[Remianen]

Based on this list I would let go of

Brian Kendrick
Bubba
Dr. Stevie
Jesse Neal
Jimmy Hart
Kiyoshi
Nasty Boys (Again, listed as one person)
Orlando Jones
Rob Terry
Scott Hall
Shark Boy
Suicide
Lacey von Erich

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Suicide isn't an actual worker. It was Kaz & Daniels working under the mask, wasn't it?

[Stennick]

I've just started watching TNA but I'm fairly certain they have a third guy playing Suicide now, some Japanese guy? Thats what I've taken from this thread when talking of the "jap" as Hyde so nicely put it :) and all this talk of Suicide 3 which to me would indicate a third man playing the role.

[shawn michaels 82]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Suicide isn't an actual worker. It was Kaz & Daniels working under the mask, wasn't it?

Right. But he was problaly talking about the japanese guy they have on loan who also weared it, if i'm not mistaken.

[Self]

Can't speak for him, but when I mentioned cutting Suicide, I meant the concept, the character. I also want to cut Kiyoshi, the guy I think is rumoured to be getting the gimmick next.

[PeterHilton]

I think the hard truth is that to get the most out of the roster, you HAVE to cut some talent.

Not everyone can be a main eventer.

You want to book concise, straightforward, well thought out storylines then you probably have to get down to 30-35 active guys.

That means you probably have to release some long time favorites like Hernandez, Daniels, Joe, Team 3D, Rhino, etc...

[BHK1978]

I think it would be a fun project to make a list of who we would cut. Since we're all smarky.

The List Now:

Men:

Abyss
AJ Styles
Alex Shelley
Amazing Red
Brian Kendrick
Brutus Magnus
Bubba
Chris Sabin
Consequences Creed
D'Angelo Dinero
Daniels
Desmond Wolfe
Don West
Doug Williams
Dr. Stevie
Eric Bischoff
Eric Young
Generation Me (for some reason, listed as one person on the Roster page)
Hernandez
Homicide
Hulk Hogan
James Storm
Jay Lethal
Jeff Hardy
Jeff Jarett
Jeremy Borash
Jesse Neal
Jimmy Hart
Kazarian
Kevin Nash
Kiyoshi
Kurt Angle
Matt Morgan
Mr. Anderson
Nasty Boys (Again, listed as one person)
Orlando Jones
Raven
Rhino
Rick Flair
Rob Terry
Rob Van Dam
Robert Roode
Samoa Joe
Scott Hall
Sean Waltman
Shannon Moore
Shark Boy
Sting
Suicide
Team 3D (Weird. Wonder why Sabin and Shelley got separate pages, then...)
Tomko

Women:

Angelina Love
Christy Hemme
Daffney
Hamada
Lacey von Erich
Madison Rayne
ODB
Sarita
So Cal Val
Tara
Taylor Wilde
Velvet Sky

(I left off announcers, but kept on-screen personalities. And Don West, because he is in those stupid damn commercials.)

I also think it's interesting that the Women's roster is SO much shorter, and yet very nearly every woman has a reasonably large fanbase. As opposed to the men's side, where a lot of people are getting lost in the shuffle.

Here is who I would get rid of:

So Cal Val, Shark Boy, Scott Hall, Sean Waltman, Nasty Boys, Jesse Neal, Jimmy Hart and Don West.

In the case of Val, Shark Boy, Don West, and Jesse Neal they do not really use them.

Val just pumps up the crowd and looks pretty so what is the reason to keep her around?

The rest I just dislike and I think that there time has passed in regards to drawing in the fans of giving good matches.

Well I don't hate Jimmy Hart but you get rid of the Nasty Boys, you should get rid of him as well.

[cappyboy]

Can't speak for him, but when I mentioned cutting Suicide, I meant the concept, the character. I also want to cut Kiyoshi, the guy I think is rumoured to be getting the gimmick next.

No way would I cut Suicide. He's a very unique asset for TNA in this period of change. Being a character concept rather than a living, breathing man, Suicide can be an agent of stability that you don't even have to pay. As such, Suicide is a figure they should capitalize on.

If this transition period goes as they hope, the average viewer isn't going to notice all the turnover behind the mask he came on the scene. They won't know the shuffle from Kazarian to Daniels to Kiyoshi to Air Attack Weasel or whomever comes next. They are just going to notice that Suicide's been a staple of the company. A character with that potential to attain staple status is not to sneezed at this stage in TNA's history. Like him or hate him as a character, TNA needs Suicide far too much to cut him.

[Linsolv]

I'd cut:

Men:

Bubba
Don West
Dr. Stevie
Jeremy Borash
Jesse Neal
Jimmy Hart
Kazarian
Kevin Nash
Kiyoshi
Nasty Boys
Orlando Jones
Raven
Rick Flair
Rob Terry
Scott Hall
Sean Waltman
Shark Boy
Suicide
Team 3D
Tomko

Women:

Keep all

NB: Weird thing is that I hate women's wrestling, most of the time. I find it to be boring. But I think that the women's side is manageable right now.

I decided that I had to keep Hogan, Bischoff, etc. Because they're in charge.

Incidentally, you'll notice that I cut 2 tag teams (though, Knobbs and Saggs...), and I think you'd have to replenish that by really trying to put some new teams over. And maybe you could use someone other than MCMG to do it. Like, I dunno, Generation Me. Or a couple singles MEs that are just together for one night.

Also, I kept Eric Young because I think that he could be good enough, at least midcard, if he weren't running around acting like a retard and being treated like a 5 year old.

[jesterx7769]

I would cut...

Men:
Amazing Red- with all his runs they've yet to make me care about him
Brian Kendrick- useless as he is, bring in London as a tag and he can stay
Brutus Magnus- he is the lone wolf of the Invasion angle
Bubba
Dr. Stevie
Eric Bischoff- him being on TV isn't drawing as much hype as he is being paid
Eric Young- sorry bud your times run out, too many gimmicks and hes a nothing now
Generation Me- hate them.
Hulk Hogan- him being on TV isn't drawing as much hype as he is being paid
Jay Lethal- his macho man thing has run its course
Jesse Neal
Jimmy Hart
Kiyoshi
Nasty Boys
Scott Hall
Sean Waltman
Shannon Moore
Shark Boy
Suicide #3 and charcter, it was only there to promote the game
Tomko, just a big jobber and is probably getting paid too much for it
Shawn Stasiak
Ken Doane

Bold= future signings

Women:
Christy Hemme
Daffney (have a feeling she will be a one trick poney and they will cut her by year end)
ODB (looks like shes on her way out anyways after her boob pop)
Sarita

Since that's alot of people cut, some people I want back...

Austin Aries- love him, very charismatic wish he was bigger
Roderick Strong- Great in ring worker, love the backbreakers
Tyler Black- CM Punk'esque look, would like him given a shot
Trent Acid- Always loved him and he'd be a great X-division guy since I dont think him and Kashmere tag anymore
Petey Williams- Worst booking in TNA EVER, if anything his finisher is such an asset to them since WWE does NOTHING even CLOSE
Chase Stevens- With Douglas retired I think they could be bring him back as singles worker in this new era, I love his intensity live and think is a solid, solid, solid worker.
Kid Kash- Best X- Division heel in TNA history
Monty Brown (I can dream :p )
Samoa Joe

I think alot of those guys have been gone so long the new audience wouldn't even really know them while the TNA loyalists would embrace them

[The Shape]

I swear virtually EVERYONE, literally, has switched alignments since I last watched, which I think was around christmas, or maybe summer...whenever the show was that ended with that brawl everyone get so hyped about. Young was head of the world elite, Nash talking about money, now they're a face team...Morgan was a big focus...Angle a bad guy...AJ a good guy...lol.

[shawn michaels 82]

Shawn Stasiak
Ken Doane

Bold= future signings

Shawn 'freakin' Stasiak? Why the hell are they signing him anyway? Good Lord!

[jesterx7769]

he's said he is making a return to wrestling and wants to be in TNA, haven't heard anything on it from TNA but it wouldn't surprise, I'm just preparing myself :)

[jesterx7769]

SELF! READ THIS http://pwinsider.com/article/46243/tna-gets-press-for-having-the-first-openly-bisexual-wrestler-impact-spoiler-warning.html?p=1

unless you dont want an Impact spoiler of an angle.

[cappyboy]

SELF! READ THIS http://pwinsider.com/article/46243/tna-gets-press-for-having-the-first-openly-bisexual-wrestler-impact-spoiler-warning.html?p=1

unless you dont want an Impact spoiler of an angle.

Oh goody. Guess it explains what his value to the company is supposed to be. The ole Bischoff Controversy Creates Cash theory. Had thought he'd follow Morley out the door as little as he's been used so far.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Men:

Abyss Has no real reason being in TNA right now. Monster Face = BAD.
AJ Styles
Alex Shelley
Amazing Red He just seems like generic underdog #9001 to me.
Brian Kendrick Booking him wrong
Brutus Magnus I personally get nothing from him
Bubba No reason for this... SPONGE here.
Chris Sabin
Consequences Creed Hasnt been used in a while
D'Angelo Dinero
Daniels
Desmond Wolfe
Don West
Doug Williams
Dr. Stevie Daffney doesnt need him. He needs Daffney.
Eric Bischoff
Eric Young
Generation Me (for some reason, listed as one person on the Roster page)
Hernandez
Homicide
Hulk Hogan
James Storm
Jay Lethal
Jeff Hardy
Jeff Jarett I never liked Jarett. Ever.
Jeremy Borash
Jesse Neal Can stay if he turns heel.
Jimmy Hart Hes not managing the RIGHT PEOPLE. He needs to manage younger talent who are having trouble getting over IMO.
Kazarian
Kevin Nash Go away. Please.
Kiyoshi I hate suicide, and they dont use Kiyoshi as Kiyoshi so yeah.
Kurt Angle
Matt Morgan
Mr. Anderson
Nasty Boys (Again, listed as one person) Do I need a reason here?
Orlando Jones
Raven
Rhino (Lack of use)
Rick Flair
Rob Terry Clearly on steroids. Barely more watchable than Khali
Rob Van Dam
Robert Roode
Samoa Joe
Scott Hall
Sean Waltman Retire/Road Agents/Non Wrestler status would be fine.
Shannon Moore
Shark Boy I doubt he even NEEDS to wrestle as he probably got enough money for life suing that movie company in like 04. 05?
Sting
Suicide A video game character
Team 3D (Weird. Wonder why Sabin and Shelley got separate pages, then...)
Tomko

Women:

Angelina Love
Christy Hemme
Daffney
Hamada
Lacey von Erich
Madison Rayne
ODB
Sarita
So Cal Val
Tara
Taylor Wilde
Velvet Sky

(I left off announcers, but kept on-screen personalities. And Don West, because he is in those stupid damn commercials.)


Firings in bold

[Remianen]

Women:
Christy Hemme
Daffney (have a feeling she will be a one trick poney and they will cut her by year end)
ODB (looks like shes on her way out anyways after her boob pop)
Sarita

I don't get it.

For a division that's supposed to be 'anti-Diva' and centered around women that can work, you KEEP the in-ring deadweight (Lacey Von Erich) but cut one of the best women workers in the world? And don't use the excuse that she's in the Beautiful People so is somehow irreplaceable. You can get any vapid, "hot" blonde and plug them right in (that's how Lacey got in, after all).

Who I'd cut:

Amazing Red
Brian Kendrick (as someone else said, with Paul London, he'd have value)
Brutus Magnus
Bubba
Doug Williams
Dr. Stevie
Eric Bischoff
Eric Young
Generation Me
Hulk Hogan
Jesse Neal
Jimmy Hart
Kevin Nash
Nasty Boys (Again, listed as one person) Do I need a reason here?
Orlando Jones
Rhino (Lack of use)
Rick Flair
Rob Terry
Scott Hall
Sean Waltman
Shark Boy
Tomko

Women:

Christy Hemme
Lacey von Erich
ODB
So Cal Val
Traci Brooks (if she's still under contract)

There, that would allow for a much tighter booking strategy. You have a fully stocked X-Division AND tag team scene, and the singles picture is a lot less muddled. You can phase out the Global title (since it has no purpose) and alternate presences with your storylines (match one week, promos the next, and repeat). You can have 4-8 people offscreen at a time, for repackaging, without harming the onscreen product.

[shawn michaels 82]

SELF! READ THIS http://pwinsider.com/article/46243/tna-gets-press-for-having-the-first-openly-bisexual-wrestler-impact-spoiler-warning.html?p=1

unless you dont want an Impact spoiler of an angle.

Seriously? These guys won't get their act straight. :D

[Hyde Hill]

Traci has been gone for a while now and Bisch is working on renaming and or rededicating the Global title. What is with the cutting of Sharky? He is a sympathy jobber and you do need those guys. He generates more sympathy then Yang and Funaki and is a better wrestler then them imho. As an undercard worker used once in a blue moon for a squash he is fine. Brutus is also fine in the tag scene.

[Hyde Hill]

SELF! READ THIS http://pwinsider.com/article/46243/tna-gets-press-for-having-the-first-openly-bisexual-wrestler-impact-spoiler-warning.html?p=1

unless you dont want an Impact spoiler of an angle.

Afraid this might happen

http://ui08.gamespot.com/2119/doublefacepalm_2.jpg

[jesterx7769]

Seriously? These guys won't get their act straight. :D

I see what you did there...

I wouldn't have a problem with the Bi thing if they did it right but WWE started to do it and failed and this angle looks as stupid on tv as reads then just...wow.

This is how I would do it, take it leave hate w/e.

first, I dont think it should be so obvious that he is bi, dancing kinda iffy giving cute smiles and winks, plus its rumored his life style helped get him fired from the 'E then he had pictures on MySpace making out with guys, so the cats already out of the bag.

Second, have him actually on TV and winning, then have his "friends" be on TV with him, and dont have it be a guy so stereotyped and out there.

Third, instead of focusing around OJ, have the friends fight for his attention over a couple of weeks, i.e. leaving the arena with one, hugging one after a win and not the other, etc. etc.

Fourth, have the friends have a match with OJ as the guest ref, there are two ways you can then go, either the girl or guy wins and he embraces them

Fifth, since this is a bi storyline to begin with, we assume in step 4 he picks the guy, you can then have a wrestler attack him for his "choices" and then they feud, giving the whole bi thing an actual lead in purpose to something else.

Is it perfect? No, I've said before when I talk about booking I dont claim to be awesome. However I think this way provides some entertainment while focusing on the wrestler instead of him being Bi and wouldn't come across offensive to either side, and lets be honest, since this whole thing is to create controversy you know its going to be offensive

[Hyde Hill]

If you HAD to do it, then that is a decent way of doing it Jester.

[b0shey]

Orlando Jordan's new gimmick pics

http://www.tnawrestlingnews.com/images/galleries/jordannewgimmick/slideshow.pl

[PeterHilton]

The List Now:

Men:

Abyss
AJ Styles
Alex Shelley
Amazing Red
Brian Kendrick
Brutus Magnus
Bubba
Chris Sabin
Consequences Creed
D'Angelo Dinero
Daniels It hurts..but I think it's obvious he's never going to be a major player in TNA and he'd have an epic return to ROH
Desmond Wolfe
Don West
Doug Williams
Dr. Stevie
Eric Bischoff
Eric Young
Generation Me (for some reason, listed as one person on the Roster page)
Hernandez
Homicide
Hulk Hogan
James Storm
Jay Lethal
Jeff Hardy
Jeff Jarett
Jeremy Borash
Jesse Neal
Jimmy Hart
Kazarian
Kevin Nash
Kiyoshi
Kurt Angle
Matt Morgan
Mr. Anderson
Nasty Boys (Again, listed as one person)
Orlando Jones
Raven
Rhino
Rick Flair
Rob Terry
Rob Van Dam
Robert Roode
Samoa Joe
Scott Hall
Sean Waltman
Shannon Moore
Shark Boy
Sting
Suicide
Team 3D (Weird. Wonder why Sabin and Shelley got separate pages, then...)
Tomko

Women:

Angelina Love
Christy Hemme
Daffney
Hamada
Lacey von Erich
Madison Rayne
ODB
Sarita
So Cal Val
Tara
Taylor Wilde
Velvet Sky

[TommyDreamerFan]

You missed the point: hardcore environment aside, you just said that JBL could get carried to a good match by two guys who were even worse workers than he was and had to be carried by wither their opponent or -more often - the type of match they wee in.

Jack and Sandman could really ONLY put on good matches in overbooked hardcore spotfests. (Which had their appeal at the time, don't get me wrong)

It sort of completely defeats your argument.

And it goes back to the point that it's hard to take your assessmentof TNA seriously. Because we just don't see the same things when we watch a wrestling match.

No sir, I said JBL could have a great match with New Jack or Sandman two guys that are no where near as talented as JBL is.

If anything can make my opinions of TNA less valid is that, for the most part, I'm very easy to please person in general. I'd like to think though I don't look at someone's thrown out coffee filter in their trash and go "What? Why are you throwing this out!" lol but generally, if I sit down in front of a show and am entertained by it I can overlook the things you nit pick at.

We should do a 2 player TEW game sometime, see who the better arm chair booker is Pete. lol

[Stennick]

Abyss - The guy has a unique look, he's over, should he get the push he's getting? No but he's more than capable of being a big part of the roster.

AJ Styles - The franchise of TNA and obviously should stay

Alex Shelley - After making some vet tag team cuts this guy would be part of the premiere tag team in TNA

Amazing Red - He can't talk, his in ring work hasn't been nearly as amazing since he returned as it was in his "prime" his look isn't interesting. The guy is talented but not talented enough to keep around.

Brian Kendrick - This guy would make a good X Division jobber or if they get London back I have no doubt we could have a Hooliganz vs. MCMG feud.

Brutus Magnus - I have no idea why they added this guy to a bloated roster already in the first.

Bubba - Nuff Said

Chris Sabin - Like I said this guy and his partner should be the premier tag team in TNA and if not that then they both are more than capable of being stars in the X Division.

Consequences Creed - The guys got a neat costume and a fun gimmick but with only two hours of television a week neither of those things is enough to keep him around when the same can be said for two dozen other guys on his level.

D'Angelo Dinero - The Pope should be the upper mid card champion but not until after they do away with the global championship, bring in a new championship the t.v championship and have it be the reason the pope blesses our t.v's every week pun intended.

Daniels - The guy is good X Division fodder, he's not getting any younger, he can still go in the ring. No major push but he's good at making others look great.

Desmond Wolfe - If you want to get rid of Desmond Wolfe you're a bloody wanker

Don West - The only reason this guy still has a job is because he's been there since show 1 which I can respect.

Doug Williams - I was a huge fan of this guys....eight years ago. The time has come that he doesn't offer anything they can't get elsewhere

Dr. Stevie - I have no idea why they rehired this guy

Eric Bischoff - I'm a fan of Eric's booking most of the time and that may be a reason why I've enjoyed TNA the last few weeks

Eric Young- Every single thing they have asked of Eric he's done, Paranoid face, comedy face, brash ****y heel, now vengeance seeking bad ass face. He's done it all, he's good in the ring and very underrated on the mic. This guy should be up there with Wolfe and Pope in the upper mid card.

Generation Me - I'm not impressed with these guys and I think there are several teams on the roster that can duplicate their in ring skills. They look bland and boring to me.

Hernandez - The guy won't be a superstar but he is an upper mid carder and under the right push could even get a throw away world title pay per view main event.

Homicide -The guy is talented but their not doing anything with him now and the whole thug wrestler thing feels so 2005 to me. I like the guy but his last memorable feud was with Amazing Red I say let him go.

Hulk Hogan - Obviously just having Hogan on board legitimizes them to the mainstream media. I see no reason to cut the guy his contract is with Panda Energy so you have to include him as "free money" since he doesn't technically cost TNA Entertainment a dime.

James Storm - Beer Money need to be kept on board as the "established" team they can do for TNA what they wish Team 3D and the Nasty'd could do and for cheaper.

Jay Lethal - Jay's only charisma is pretending to be Macho Man. He rarely wrestles and I never remember him being in a single memorable feud. Gimmicks that rip other gimmicks off to me are lame and you can't see that person as a credible threat. If you try and take that gimmick away from him the Impact Zone is going to make a stink and ask for it back putting the guy in a position where he can't get over as long as their in the area their in so just cut your losses.

Jeff Hardy - I think the guy is in it for a free paycheck but realisticlly I don't see TNA letting go a guy they just I would assume paid top dollar for.

Jeff Jarett - The guy still owns part of the company and he's playing sympathetic underdog really well now days.

Jeremy Borash - Again with the company from the start and IMO is the best backstage announcer they have.

Jesse Neal - I like his look but there is no place for him on this bloated roster.

Jimmy Hart - Why even bother?

Kazarian - The guy was interesting five years ago, after several gimmick changes I've lost interest in him. He's decent in the ring but the guy has little charisma and I liked his gimmick of being the future but he was the future six years ago. I say let him join Tracy on the SoCal indy scene.

Kevin Nash - The guy has actually stayed with the company semi regulary even when there was heavy talk of him going back to the E for one last run. He's a naturally funny guy, he's got charisma and honestly for what his matches are he's not bad in the ring. If he wanted to hang 'em up he'd be the best color guy in the business.

Kiyoshi - Who?

Kurt Angle - This one is kinda cheating. I'd release him but I'd give him one last run up until Bound for Glory. I'd have him winning against everybody and everything and then use him to elevevate someone like Pope or Desmond Wolfe at Bound for Glory into the main event scene and release. him.

Matt Morgan - Matt looks like a superstar....kinda. I don't see Matt as "the future of this business". He's not that great of a talker, he's big but he's not got the "superstar look" he's not really well defined, he's balding, etc. So although he's big and talented in the ring for his size I would put him in that upper mid card. along with Pope, Hernandez, Young etc.

Mr. Anderson - The guy isn't the greatest talker but he just LOOKS brash and arrogant I may be alone but the guy has much more than just saying his name a bunch of times. He does that sideways smirk while chewing his gum and he just looks like he's daring you to smack him in the face.

Nasty Boys - Why Hulk why?

Orlando Jones - See Above question

Raven - I like Raven and if they wanted to make him a booker I could see him making sense but honestly with a booking team including Russo, Hogan and Bischoff I think Raven would have an "odd man out" feeling about him.

Rhino - I loved this guy but really he's not been interesting to me since he feuded with Christian in Detroit years ago.

Rick Flair - Ric needs to be on a short leash but a stable with A.J, Ric, Desmond Wolfe and maybe a tag team and a monster body guard is money IMO.

Rob Terry - This reminds me of the type of guy WCW would have tried pushing in 93 or so. "hey he's big and has muscles who cares if he's boring"

Rob Van Dam - For all the begging to bring this guy in I think he could freshen up a stale Main Event scene. If RVD has anything left in the tank RVD vs. A.J could be fun. I don't think it'd draw anymore than Abyss vs. A.J did but I think it'd be a better match.

Robert Roode - Again part of the most established team in TNA no reason to stop that now.

Samoa Joe - I see no reason to let go of the guy but he's never going to be main event. Just part of that growing list of solid working upper mid card guys.

Scott Hall - Hall seems like he's motivated and trying to give it one last go. He looks better than he has in recent years and I see no reason to get rid of him. More people channel surfing know who he is than know who Joe is.

Sean Waltman - Sean has proved he hasn't lost much in the ring and hanging around bigger stars being their buddy is his gimmick why squash it now?

Shannon Moore - Clearly brought in as a party favor to Hardy so let him have his cup of tea and show him the door.

Shark Boy - Sharky Boy may be a good jobber but honestly I've just never gotten behind the guy ever.

Sting - Sting is on his way out the door anyway I'm sure.

Suicide - Keep him around he's a great gimmick for trying out new guys

Team 3D - No matter how much they want to be they will never be "the greatest tag team in wrestling"

Tomko - Why did they bring this guy back?

If the total was 58 I just cut 22 leaving us at a solid 34 guys and gals on the roster.

[stratusfaction]

Here are my people that I would cut...

Men:

Amazing Red
Brutus Magnus
Bubba
Consequences Creed
D'Angelo Dinero
Dr. Stevie
Jay Lethal
Jesse Neal
Nasty Boys (Again, listed as one person)
Rob Terry
Scott Hall
Sean Waltman
Shark Boy
Suicide
Tomko

Women:

So Cal Val

I would have added Lacey Von Erich but I'm actually starting to like her! I think with some in ring training which she has started she could develop into a decent wrestler in the lines of someone like Velvet Sky.

[TommyDreamerFan]

I see what you did there...

I wouldn't have a problem with the Bi thing if they did it right but WWE started to do it and failed and this angle looks as stupid on tv as reads then just...wow.

This is how I would do it, take it leave hate w/e.

first, I dont think it should be so obvious that he is bi, dancing kinda iffy giving cute smiles and winks, plus its rumored his life style helped get him fired from the 'E then he had pictures on MySpace making out with guys, so the cats already out of the bag.

Second, have him actually on TV and winning, then have his "friends" be on TV with him, and dont have it be a guy so stereotyped and out there.

Third, instead of focusing around OJ, have the friends fight for his attention over a couple of weeks, i.e. leaving the arena with one, hugging one after a win and not the other, etc. etc.

Fourth, have the friends have a match with OJ as the guest ref, there are two ways you can then go, either the girl or guy wins and he embraces them

Fifth, since this is a bi storyline to begin with, we assume in step 4 he picks the guy, you can then have a wrestler attack him for his "choices" and then they feud, giving the whole bi thing an actual lead in purpose to something else.

Is it perfect? No, I've said before when I talk about booking I don't claim to be awesome. However I think this way provides some entertainment while focusing on the wrestler instead of him being Bi and wouldn't come across offensive to either side, and lets be honest, since this whole thing is to create controversy you know its going to be offensive

Certainly it'll be interesting to see how a positive gay role model is going to be booked and how well it'll get over with the fans. There is a lot to work with creatively, you can do so much with sexuality since wrestling historically has always gone the over the top flaming homo route.

It's really something though that needs to be decided by the crowd, Orlando's alignment I mean. Sure he can be the whole "I'm Bi, get with it" deal and kick ass and then get Mathew Sheppard by some bigot. But right there, either the crowd is going to side with the bigot or feel sympathy for Orlando. If the crowd turns on Orlando... good god, it would be interesting for Orlando to play a serious heel bi-sexual character and just flip off on the crowd after returning from a heinous assault.

He could go all militant gay pride.

But like you I'm just playing armchair booker, my point is, it's going to be interesting for sure.

[PeterHilton]

No sir, I said JBL could have a great match with New Jack or Sandman two guys that are no where near as talented as JBL is.

HOLY SH*T! You know what the problem is...I don't think you understand how misleading your posts are or are misreading how people are responding. Let me explain:

This was the initial post

Many now a day would say like... JBL wasn't a good champ in 2004 either, and I would disagree. He's no Kurt Angle, he can't have a good match with anyone, but in his brawling element against the people he can have good matches with he's a tremendous worker.

Remi responded that saying JBL was a good worker because he can be carried doesn't really make him a good worker.

Put simply, ANY worker can look "tremendous" if put in the ring with far superior workers. That doesn't make the worker tremendous though. No more than catching a pass from Peyton Manning makes you a first ballot Hall of Fame receiver.

Your response completely ignored that and then mentioned two other guys who were poor workers (but they'd have a great match with JBL!) and then talked about him working with Batista.

And then strangely enough how somehow his matches with JBL (which were brawls) would suck because Batista needs to be carried (as if somehow Sandman and New Jack don't)

PUT JBL in the ring with guys like Sandman, New Jack or any other guy that knows how to brawl and what you'll get with is a great wild brawl. Put him in there with a guy like Batista, who needs someone to make him look good, and of course the match is going to suck. It's going to suck even more if you don't play to his strengths (brawling) booking 101 sir.

If JBL is a knife, I'm not going to bring him to a gun fight. I'm going to bring him to a knife fight, why? Because he's a pretty sharp fn' knife! Your example is lame, sir.

DO YOU SEE WHY I'M FRUSTRATED TALKING TO YOU?

We should do a 2 player TEW game sometime, see who the better arm chair booker is Pete. lol

No. Because I hate you.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Men:

Abyss
AJ Styles
Alex Shelley
Amazing Red- Hate. Hate. Hate. his current look. No charisma. Small.
Brian Kendrick
Brutus Magnus- Again, it's about look. He's just plain looking.
Bubba
Chris Sabin
Consequences Creed
D'Angelo Dinero
Daniels
Desmond Wolfe
Don West-Honestly don't think his ads influence anyone to buy, only keep if he's the mastermind behind moving merchandise.
Doug Williams- If I'm pushing Rob Terry, I don't want two other british guys on the same show.
Dr. Stevie- Doesn't add anything to the product.
Eric Bischoff
Eric Young
Generation Me
Hernandez- Re-establish LAX
Homicide- Re-establish LAX
Hulk Hogan
James Storm
Jay Lethal
Jeff Hardy
Jeff Jarett
Jeremy Borash
Jesse Neal-Green. Adds nothing to the product.
Jimmy Hart- see nasty's.
Kazarian
Kevin Nash
Kiyoshi- Just my general ignorance, I have no idea who he is so I have no idea what to do with him.
Kurt Angle
Matt Morgan
Mr. Anderson
Nasty Boys- already brought them in, fade them out over the next year and a half jobbing to tag teams
Orlando Jones
Raven- Only use would be as a manager at this point, and I have nothing per the moment.
Rhino- Tremendous talent, but theres no where for him here. Release him... Hope he'd find success elsewhere.
Ric Flair- In storyline break his spine, keeping him wheelchair bound, simply because I find him in a wheel chair humorous.
Rob Terry- start of a very slow long goldberg push to the top.
Rob Van Dam
Robert Roode
Samoa Joe- Try to re-build joe as the fat somoan that WILL kill you. If that fails, keep him around in a Kane type role.
Scott Hall- Waste of money and air time.
Sean Waltman- Less of a waste of money, but dudes been flaky in the past. To hell with him.
Shannon Moore- He's only here to keep Jeff Hardy happy. If I don't fire him he'll be left to his own devices to get over in the X-division. Plus he bailed on the company before.
Shark Boy
Sting- He can't have to much left in the tank, lets have him establish our stars and put a bullet in his head over the next year.
Spike Dudley- adds nothing to Team 3D at this point in their careers.
Suicide- I can deal with it being a video game character, except the gimmick brings nothing to the product and it isn't over at all. Kill it off.
Team 3D
Tomko- He looks like poo, wrestlers like poo, and has all the charisma of poo. Drop him.

Women:

Angelina Love- Shes talented, but looks crackwhore ugly. If I keep her around it's only to put over the other women.
Christy Hemme
Daffney
Hamada
Lacey von Erich
Madison Rayne
ODB- This ones debatable. She's over, she's relatively talented, but her lack of sex appeal annoys me. Would depend on other factors (attitude, how much merchandise she pulls in, how badly the fans like her.)
Sarita
So Cal Val- I'm a biased Christy Hemme fan. I have other women on the roster who look pretty, AND can wrestle. Why the hell should I pay to keep her around?
Tara
Taylor Wilde
Velvet Sky- Pushed to the moon. Looks, charisma, talent (and the fact that Awesome Kong is MIA.)

WHO I BRING IN:
The Briscoe Bros. who would be managed by New Jack (i'd take a chance on for his charisma)

Scott Steiner, has charisma, still in great shape, well known ala nash. Theres no better person for that uppermidcard role because christ, who wouldn't look good holding a victory over a guy that looks as huge as this guy?

Candice Michele, I really started to grow fond of her as she improved.

Too Cool, this is selfish booking and just something I want to see in general.

thats about it. I've always been fond of a tag team combination of Steve Corino and DDP however I haven't seen Corino since his ECW days so I have no clue what he looks like today and the like. Nor do I even know why I like the idea of them teaming.

People from the E I'd want to bring in is pretty limited. Chris Jericho is the only one I really fancy, and Matt Hardy for obvious reasons. Kane, like Too Cool, would be a selfish desire because I've been a fan of his forever.

Women wise from the E: Gail Kim, Melina, Mickie James... you know, the usual suspects. Hell if those girls left, I doubt it would matter to Vince.

[TommyDreamerFan]

HOLY SH*T! You know what the problem is...I don't think you understand how misleading your posts are or are misreading how people are responding. Let me explain:

This was the initial post



Remi responded that saying JBL was a good worker because he can be carried doesn't really make him a good worker.



Your response completely ignored that and then mentioned two other guys who were poor workers (but they'd have a great match with JBL!) and then talked about him working with Batista.

And then strangely enough how somehow his matches with JBL (which were brawls) would suck because Batista needs to be carried (as if somehow Sandman and New Jack don't)



DO YOU SEE WHY I'M FRUSTRATED TALKING TO YOU?



No. Because I hate you.

*shrug* Yeah your right, I'm not making clear points with my posts I'll be more clear from now on. But for the love of christ, I hope your kidding about being frustrated. Bickering over booking is suppose to be fun dude.

Batista isn't a brawler in my book, because calling Batista a brawler is like calling Andre The Giant a brawler. Batista's style is what I call "Traditional Big Man Style" a sort of bland simpleness where the everything he does is simply based on his size and relies heavily on psychology to have a good match. Hogan is good example, same style, great psychology. Bland as all hell but got the crowd involved.

Batista obviously, has no real grasp of psychology. Neither does JBL, thus that's why their match suffered. Though if you remember, once it was clear they were oil and water what did the WWE do? BOOK THEM IN A STREET FIGHT, why? Cause that was the only was JBL was going to carry someone to something halfway decent because that's his element.

New Jack and Sandman need to be carried in everything BUT hardcore matches because, like JBL, they know how to have wild brawls.

[Tag01]

No. Because I hate you.

Gold.

[Nedew]

Doug Williams- If I'm pushing Rob Terry, I don't want two other british guys on the same show.

...What? Why don't you sack all the other Americans if you're pushing Angle too? :rolleyes: You've still got Wolfe staying i see by the way.

Surely by now we're past "only Americans on an American show"? Especially as we're the 51st State and all.

[ColtCabana]

Men:

Abyss
AJ Styles
Alex Shelley
Amazing Red
Brian Kendrick
Brutus Magnus
Bubba - Has no real use other than knowing the right people
Chris Sabin
Consequences Creed
D'Angelo Dinero
Daniels
Desmond Wolfe
Don West - Has no real use, Taz, Foley or even Nash are better on Colour
Doug Williams
Dr. Stevie - Can't think of much for him to do but I like him. Road Agent
Eric Bischoff
Eric Young
Generation Me
Hernandez
Homicide - Tell him to shape up or ship out, I like him so he'd stay for now
Hulk Hogan
James Storm
Jay Lethal
Jeff Hardy
Jeff Jarett
Jeremy Borash
Jesse Neal - I don't even think they know what to do with him
Jimmy Hart
Kazarian
Kevin Nash
Kiyoshi
Kurt Angle
Matt Morgan
Mr. Anderson
Nasty Boys - More hurtfull to the product than useful
Orlando Jordan - Was a fan in the WWE but he is just a filling up the midcard right now
Raven
Rhino
Ric Flair
Rob Terry
Rob Van Dam
Robert Roode
Samoa Joe
Scott Hall
Sean Waltman - Boring and tired, Nash and Hall could use the Wolfpac to build new heels. Not Needed
Shannon Moore - IMO better potential X-Division workers exist
Shark Boy
Sting
Suicide - Not relevent anymore
Team 3D - Part time, let them work as many Japanese dates as they want and bring them back to give a rub to a tag team
Tomko - Was good, now going nowhere fast

Women:

Angelina Love
Christy Hemme
Daffney
Hamada
Lacey von Erich - Make her a valet and not a wrestler
Madison Rayne
ODB
Sarita
So Cal Val - Valet or the Highway
Tara
Taylor Wilde
Velvet Sky

TNA need more Female workers if they are going to keep the ko tag belts, however they don't need more wrestlers at this point.

----

I think we need a list like this for the WWE thread too, it would make for good discussion.

[TommyDreamerFan]

...What? Why don't you sack all the other Americans if you're pushing Angle too? :rolleyes: You've still got Wolfe staying i see by the way.

Surely by now we're past "only Americans on an American show"? Especially as we're the 51st State and all.

Williams and Magnus have been doing the same gimmick as Big Rob, sort of a throwback to the British Bulldog. British pride and all that jazz.

Desmond Wolfe is a c0cky guy who happens to be British. Which maybe I'm being lazy, but for the life of me I can't think of a new gimmick for either one of them so it's best just to let them go.

[Stennick]

Men:


Angelina Love- Shes talented, but looks crackwhore ugly. If I keep her around it's only to put over the other women.

WHO I BRING IN:
The Briscoe Bros. who would be managed by New Jack (i'd take a chance on for his charisma)

Scott Steiner, has charisma, still in great shape, well known ala nash. Theres no better person for that uppermidcard role because christ, who wouldn't look good holding a victory over a guy that looks as huge as this guy?

Candice Michele, I really started to grow fond of her as she improved.

Too Cool, this is selfish booking and just something I want to see in general.

thats about it. I've always been fond of a tag team combination of Steve Corino and DDP however I haven't seen Corino since his ECW days so I have no clue what he looks like today and the like. Nor do I even know why I like the idea of them teaming.

Matt Hardy for obvious reasons.


You think Angelina Love is unattractive? Yet you'd keep Lacey Von Erich who is not as attractive (IMO and about a hundred times less talented?)

The Briscoes are just as bland as everyone else you were releasing? Seriously what would be the difference between them and any other indy tag team? Also why in the WORLD would you choose a hardcore wrestling "street gangsta" to manage the Briscoe Brothers? Also since when did New Jack have anything in the way of charisma other than jumping off of high things, threatening to kill people and bleeding?

Candice Michelle is prego so she won't be available for quite some time.

Too Cool? These guys haven't even been a tag team in what NINE years? Seriously we're talking of cutting dead weight and you want Too Cool brought in?

I'm lost on the obvious reasons to bring in Matt Hardy? Because of his brother Jeff? Because other than that Hardy is pretty much a waste at this point. He's not over, he's not getting any younger and would demand a HUGE paycheck from TNA just for showing up.

[Nedew]

Also since when did New Jack have anything in the way of charisma other than jumping off of high things, threatening to kill people and bleeding?

This is when. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtnXVTczDkA)

[Stennick]

That isn't his best "promo". None the less thats when New Jack was still somewhat sane and roughly 12 years ago. I think New Jack had a place and I could appreciate him but the guy isn't nearly stable enough to be involved with any major wrestling promotion and I certainly wouldn't book him as a manger. None the less New Jack was entertaining for what he was. This promo went on way too long and would have been more effective if they would have walked down a block or what not instead of just standing in once place cursing at people saying "when I'm done here I'm done, F those guys that went on. Then he proceeded to "move on" even pitching an idea to be the one that "stabbed" John Cena during his Carlito feud.

[Nedew]

It certainly wasn't his best promo, i just thought it was a good example of his intensity and charisma. Perhaps a bit too long, but damn, he's good at what he does.

[Slagaholic]

He is clearly intoxicated in that promo which makes it even better.

[b0shey]

Men:

In my opinion these should get the boot, keeping in mind i dont watch tna on a regular basis but seen all of them.

Abyss
AJ Styles
Alex Shelley
Amazing Red
Brian Kendrick
Brutus Magnus Just hate him, but Dixie's pet project so wont see him go
BTLS Again a part of Camp Hogan so sitting pretty safe
Chris Sabin
Consequences Creed
D'Angelo Dinero
Daniels
Desmond Wolfe
Don West pretty obvious reasons why, the Michael Cole of TNA
Doug Williams
Dr. Stevie
Eric Bischoff
Eric Young
Generation Me
Hernandez
Homicide
Hulk Hogan
James Storm
Jay Lethal
Jeff Hardy
Jeff Jarett
Jeremy Borash
Jesse Neal
Jimmy Hart
Kazarian
Kiyoshi
Kurt Angle
Matt Morgan
Mr. Anderson
Nasty Boys They had their moment in the sun along time ago but camp Hogan keeps them safe
Orlando Jordan
Raven
Rhino lost in the shuffle with al the new people coming in
Ric Flair
Rob Terry
Rob Van Dam
Robert Roode
Samoa Joe
Wolfpac (Nash. Hall, Waltman) somebody tell them that nWo is so dead
Shannon Moore
Shark Boy The Funaki of TNA should have got the boot along time ago
Sting
Suicide Stupid Character
Team 3D
Tomko

Women:

Angelina Love
Christy Hemme
Daffney
Hamada
Lacey von Erich Seeing as Hogan likes Lacey she probably wont get the boot unless she screws up very badly
Madison Rayne
ODB I freaking hate ODB she is so annoying
Sarita
So Cal Val
Tara
Taylor Wilde
Velvet Sky

What was once a great division has been reduced badly due to Awesome Kong, Gail Kim, Cheerleader Melissa leaving.
----

[The Final Countdown]

The Briscoe Bros. who would be managed by New Jack (i'd take a chance on for his charisma)
That may be the most random pairing of manager and wrestler(s) that I've ever seen.

[Self]

Shame on all of you for wanting to cut Doug Williams! His promo at Destination X was good, and his finish is awesome!

SELF! READ THIS http://pwinsider.com/article/46243/tna-gets-press-for-having-the-first-openly-bisexual-wrestler-impact-spoiler-warning.html?p=1

unless you dont want an Impact spoiler of an angle.

Weird, but I'm interested in seeing where it goes. I've been an advocate of having a positive gay role model in wrestling for a while, although I don't think that's what they're doing. A babyface would be comfortable with his sexuality, without flaunting it. It looks to me like he'll be a heel, playing off of the crowd's homophobia, in a slightly different way than the norm. Different is good. I like different.

The key is if the character can be used to create interesting feuds to set up matches folks will pay to see. Hopefully TNA have some plans on that, and aren't just relying on the controversy.

[mystic]

Right. But he was problaly talking about the japanese guy they have on loan who also weared it, if i'm not mistaken.

From what I've read, Kiyoshi is going to take over the suicide role, but I would get rid of the suicide character in general as I think it's just a bad idea.

[cappyboy]

Okay here's mine:

Amazing Red: They've dumped the notion of Don West trying to mentor/manage him and it doesn't seem like the past history within the company is going to be much help to him.

Brutus Magnus: Hasn't been of much use since World Elite splintered and isn't interesting enough on his own. That's why he was teamed with Williams and Terry to begin with.

Bubba: His act is boring and tedious. He adds nothing.

Dr. Stevie: Seems to have run his course since the feud with Abyss ended.

Eric Bischoff: See Bubba

Jeff Hardy: I get why he's wanted but he's just too mercurial. I wouldn't be able to trust him

Jimmy Hart: Let him go tend to that Wrestlecious show. Wrestling needs some new managerial blood. Not old holdovers like Jimmy Hart.

Kazarian: I get what he was to TNA's past but there have to be a lot of newer members of the TNA fanbase who don't know him from Adam and couldn't care less about the guy. Or am I just imprinting my feelings on the crowd in general?

Kiyoshi: There's been talk he could become Suicide. But I don't know. I think I might just let him go back to Japan and give the character to someone else. He wasn't able to make himself matter without World Elite and served mostly as cannon fodder with them. Someone else can serve as Suicide.

Mr. Anderson: I know I'm biased but he's a big lump of nothing. I'd be more than willing to take the chance of some other company making something of themselves with him at the lead.

Nasty Boys (Again, listed as one person): Once the feud with Team 3D runs its course anyway.

Orlando Jordan: Boring and has nowhere near the name value he had to have been brought in for in the first place.

Raven: Nothing really for him. His role kinda died off with Stevie's

Rob Terry: An even bigger lump of nothing than Anderson. At least with Anderson, I understand why he's supposed to be have appeal and be entertaining. But as I've said, I'd want Terry to hang around long enough to have that X Division run Williams yanked out from under him. Preferably a short one before a more traditional X Division guy outquicked the belt away from him. As bad an idea as giving Terry a storyline was to start with, it would sadden my old school heart to not see it have a proper conclusion.

Samoa Joe: They clearly don't want to do anything coherent with him. Let him go somewhere that will value him.

Scott Hall: Do I even need a reason? :)

Sean Waltman: I don't have much problem with the guy as a talent but he hasn't made enough believers over the years for him to have much value.

Tomko: Don't like the guy. Never have. Don't really see the appeal. Probably cheaper guys on the indy level you could bring in who'd be just as good if not better

[Hyde Hill]

What are people's thoughts on the ranking system? Seems Bisch is still a fan of it it seems. I think it just limits creativity too much and doesn't work in a storyline driven fed.

[Linsolv]

I like the idea, but that said I like more performance-oriented wrestling than Scott Hall really has a place in right now.

[brashleyholland]

I've saidthis before: they need to cut the roster. Maybe in half.

It's great to have all that talent, but TNA literally has too many guys for them to really focus on anybody for an extended length of time. They 're trying to pay attention to so much, that the booking of the whole roster suffers.

And yes..I know that if you cut 30 people or so you'd be releasing some very good, very talented individuals. But the storytelling would become more concise and the product would improve tenfold.

Exactly...most of them wont go to the WWE, because the have everyone they need/want. So they'll go overseas, do the indy thing...if TNA needs to pick them up again in 6 months or a year, most of them would still be availible.

[Self]

What are people's thoughts on the ranking system? Seems Bisch is still a fan of it it seems. I think it just limits creativity too much and doesn't work in a storyline driven fed.

I like it. It's Sportsy and different to what WWE are doing. It could provide a nice, rigid structure to hang their storylines off of, and judging by how anarchic and inconsistent their storytelling is right now, that might help get things on the straight and narrow.

[sebsplex]

I like it. It's Sportsy and different to what WWE are doing. It could provide a nice, rigid structure to hang their storylines off of, and judging by how anarchic and inconsistent their storytelling is right now, that might help get things on the straight and narrow.

Seconded. Apart from what Self mentioned, at least now, randomly having singles matches where the likes of Orlando Jordan go over the Pope and Samoa Joe would have some sort of worth. It should also end the random creation of #1 contenders for the World Title.

[Franchise22]

I like it. It's Sportsy and different to what WWE are doing. It could provide a nice, rigid structure to hang their storylines off of, and judging by how anarchic and inconsistent their storytelling is right now, that might help get things on the straight and narrow.

WWE does rankings, the power 20. it would be neat if it meant something though. Just fan service right now. i remember during my childhood, i loved the PWI rankings for each fed and overall singles and tag teams. *sigh* being a childhood fan was so much more "fun".

[jesterx7769]

lol thats kinda what I was thinking, uh what about WWE's powr rankings? The only way it would be different was if it was like ROH system where how you have to work your way up to #1 for a shot and all that.

[Self]

I'm pretty sure Bischoff is talking about a real 'legitimate' ranking system that would play into storylines, not a pointless little puff-piece like they have on WWE.com. That's what I was talking about at any rate.

Yeah, it's ripped off from ROH, but I'd rather they steal from them than WWE.

[TommyDreamerFan]

I'm pretty sure Bischoff is talking about a real 'legitimate' ranking system that would play into storylines, not a pointless little puff-piece like they have on WWE.com. That's what I was talking about at any rate.

Yeah, it's ripped off from ROH, but I'd rather they steal from them than WWE.

Hey, if it works steal it. Vince stole attitude from ECW anyways, and that worked out. Bischoff stole nWo from New Japan *shrug*

[Hyde Hill]

And I would be surprised if ROH was the first fed of any note that has used that system. Almost everything in wrestling has been done before.

[Hyde Hill]

Vince fears Dixie sign in the Wrestlemania crowd tonight. That is two ppv's in a row hehe. Look for it when Bret celebrates and goes to the top right corner.

[jesterx7769]

And I would be surprised if ROH was the first fed of any note that has used that system. Almost everything in wrestling has been done before.

What!? This is new to EB, I thought he created everything good in wrestling and will continue with original and awesome ideas? (but none of the bad, that's someone else's fault)

[Fleisch]

I was impressed with Destination X and last weeks Impact (not seen this weeks as it's not on until Saturday in UK). I am starting to see a little more forward thinking and a little less "just because" in the booking. It's nowhere near at a standard to compete, but improvements have been made and I actually managed to watch an entire Impact without switching off by the main event! That hasn't happened since Hogan and Bischoff "took over".

I want to see TNA succeed as an alternative to the WWE, and in order for that to happen, they need to drop the "Monday Night Wars" crap and just go their own route. They need to work on their own direction and leave anything WWE is doing alone, they need to be different, they need to have more action and Destination X showed alot more action (I was more entertained with Destination X than Wrestlemania this year). Bischoff and Hogan's dislike for WWE and need to "beat" them could end up being TNA's undoing.

[thommohawk]

It was Hogan and Bischoff's need that had no small part of being WCW's undoing, but it was also no small part to their huge success during the good times....it depends how one looks at it, either way you can't have one without the other. The difference here is ten fold however, this is a different era, one where WWE has had 10 years of pure dominance and they were already on top before this as the single biggest worldwide exposure wrestling company not to mention the oldest still functioning - so straight away this makes things extremely difficult for any company to compete. Especially straight away.

The other main difference is that last time it was real, this time it's a work angle for storyline speaking of the MNW things.....and everyone was 10 years younger and much hungrier for success but now they are more experienced. Basically it'll take TNA a good few years I'd say to even get close to compteting with WWE and even then they might not get there, it'd be nice to think otherwise as they do have the better in ring product and they aren't nearly as annoying but I can only hope that WWE's fans flock to TNA due to the watered down WWE product but that's not too likely.

All I know is I much prefer TNA these days as opposed to the WWE. And as for the TNA haters - if TNA were to cease to exist and end tomorrow as a television property you'd be saying it was the best thing ever and how nobody "got it" and how it should come back if they could - pretty much like what happens now with all good tv shows that get cancelled due to low ratings. Take Terminator Sarah Connor Chronicles for example, good show some filler but good overall, slated to hell and back unfairly when it was on in that second season and yet now it's gone those same people all say it was awesome....yeah make your mind up before it's too late folks! Some of us get it already and are way ahead of you.....trouble is there's not 10 million of those, and it's the exact same thing with TNA. Except low TV ratings alone won't kill TNA.

Oh and I disagree with cappyboy about Anderson and Bischoff especially, for me Bischoff brings a certain edge and dynamic about TNA that just wasn't there before. Maybe it's nostalgia or maybe it isn't but either way for me he works. It's Hogan and Bubba that should get off camera so much for me, but again I understand with Hogan, Bubba not so much but probably Hogan's doing like with Orlando Jordan. Note to Hulk: Just because he's your buddy and his first name is shared with the city you produce your show out of doesn't mean he's a good signing and deserves a midcard slot over the talented workers there not least of which Samoa Joe!

[PeterHilton]

And as for the TNA haters - if TNA were to cease to exist and end tomorrow as a television property you'd be saying it was the best thing ever and how nobody "got it" and how it should come back if they could - pretty much like what happens now with all good tv shows that get cancelled due to low ratings.

No..no I wouldn't.

I'd say that based on the quality of their product for the majority of its existence, it was lucky to exist for as long as it did.

Also, what an incredible waste of talent.

[Hyde Hill]

OJ is Bischoff's project btw not Hogan. He is the Nasties and the Band. Also the whole Monday night thing is to raise public awareness for TNA, which is/was one of their major flaws, not their need to destroy the E. Yes they want to be no1 in time but for that to happen we are talking years and years.

Thommohawk I assume you are talking about the blind haters that pervade the IWC not the informed critics we mostly have here.

[brashleyholland]

Also the whole Monday night thing is to raise public awareness for TNA


According to ratings, it isn't working...

[Hyde Hill]

Don't know as we don't have the DVR figures etc. And don't know what we can glean from that. I think more people are aware of TNA they are just not watching which is step 2 and a problem.

[Remianen]

Traci has been gone for a while now and Bisch is working on renaming and or rededicating the Global title. What is with the cutting of Sharky? He is a sympathy jobber and you do need those guys. He generates more sympathy then Yang and Funaki and is a better wrestler then them imho. As an undercard worker used once in a blue moon for a squash he is fine. Brutus is also fine in the tag scene.

If Shark Boy is on a PPA contract, fine. However, if he's on a written, there is little to no sense to keeping him on if you're going to use him "once in a blue moon". Especially not when you can bring in any of a thousand different workers from the indies who would work for sweatshop wages, just to have a chance to work on TV.

And before you say it, TNA is not in WWE's league financially. They're not generating profit at anywhere near the same level. Lemme give you an example. Microsoft Game Studios, at any given time, has over a dozen titles in development or in the planning stages (with money invested in them). How many of those titles actually see a store shelf? Very few. Does that make it okay for Cheyenne Mountain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Worlds) to have a dozen titles in development? Why not?

And as for the TNA haters - if TNA were to cease to exist and end tomorrow as a television property you'd be saying it was the best thing ever and how nobody "got it" and how it should come back if they could - pretty much like what happens now with all good tv shows that get cancelled due to low ratings. Take Terminator Sarah Connor Chronicles for example, good show some filler but good overall, slated to hell and back unfairly when it was on in that second season and yet now it's gone those same people all say it was awesome....yeah make your mind up before it's too late folks! Some of us get it already and are way ahead of you.....trouble is there's not 10 million of those, and it's the exact same thing with TNA. Except low TV ratings alone won't kill TNA.

I concur with Peter. However, I think you're trying to use ECW as some kind of precedent and it's not. ECW's ideas were used/co-opted to fuel the biggest boom the industry has seen. TNA's contribution doesn't come close to that. You're trying to use 'Firefly' logic with that Terminator reference and it too fails. You might want to find out the definition and importance of 'trending' in TV programming and how that pertains to the cancellation of that particular show. And you know, you can support a promotion's continued existence in ways other than just sitting in front of the tube every week. How many TNA pay per views have you purchased consistently? How much merch do you own? How many events have you attended? You admit that low TV ratings won't kill TNA....but I'm sure those other things could.

So where is this fanbase that "gets it"? I'm not seeing it reflected in any meaningful metrics.

[Hyde Hill]

As far as I know Sharkey is on ppa and he also refs. A lot of TNA's workers are on ppa's which allow them to work for smaller companies as long as TNA is ok with it but the contracts are binding so not in a TEW sense where WWE could just pick them up. Not saying TNA is anywhere near the E financially on its own. But all the dying rumors etc is such bs.

[PeterHilton]

But all the dying rumors etc is such bs.

The idea that TNA is going to die at any second because of a months worth of crap ratings is ridiculous. But this stuff..

And you know, you can support a promotion's continued existence in ways other than just sitting in front of the tube every week. How many TNA pay per views have you purchased consistently? How much merch do you own? How many events have you attended? You admit that low TV ratings won't kill TNA....but I'm sure those other things could.

So where is this fanbase that "gets it"? I'm not seeing it reflected in any meaningful metrics.

That's all really meaningful. TNA has a lot of work to do. And when all of your eggs are in one tenuous basket (the TV deal with Spike) you kind of have to expect there to be doubts about the company's existence.

[Stennick]

The difference here is ten fold however, this is a different era, one where WWE has had 10 years of pure dominance and they were already on top before this as the single biggest worldwide exposure wrestling company not to mention the oldest still functioning - so straight away this makes things extremely difficult for any company to compete. Especially straight away.

You realize that even when the WWF was caving in around itself in 1996 and bankrupcty looked like a forgone conclusion that to the "mainstream" the WWF was STILL wrestling. WCW packed 50,000 people into an arena for Monday Nitro, set record ratings, pay per view buyrate records and yet the WWF was still seen as pro wrestling to the main stream media. Tack that on with WCW being percieved as a complete joke in 1993 when Bischoff took over and you have basically the same forumla as you have with TNA. The situations are very similar. WCW was operating out of Disney Studios, struggling to pull any sort of real audience what so ever after several regime changes while the WWF was coming off of an incredibly successful decade and was starting to fade a bit. Sound like anything you've heard before? It should because thats exactly whats going on today. TNA is packed in a small production studio trying to revive a product few know about and even fewer respect while the WWE is coming off of the Attitude era with "high" numbers but less than half of what they were doing ten years ago.

The other main difference is that last time it was real, this time it's a work angle for storyline speaking of the MNW things.....and everyone was 10 years younger and much hungrier for success but now they are more experienced. Basically it'll take TNA a good few years I'd say to even get close to compteting with WWE and even then they might not get there, it'd be nice to think otherwise as they do have the better in ring product and they aren't nearly as annoying but I can only hope that WWE's fans flock to TNA due to the watered down WWE product but that's not too likely.

You say the WWE has better in ring action than TNA? I say how do you figure? Because they put on ONE good match a show? Where is their X Division, where are their top "wrestling" stars. Where is Joe, where is the X Division? Instead we got Hogan vs. Flair in the MAIN EVENT in 2010 your argument for better in ring talent is a false one. The WWE has plenty of guys that have some in ring talent. HHH would wrestle CIRCLES around 90 percent of TNA's roster.

All I know is I much prefer TNA these days as opposed to the WWE. And as for the TNA haters - if TNA were to cease to exist and end tomorrow as a television property you'd be saying it was the best thing ever and how nobody "got it" and how it should come back if they could - pretty much like what happens now with all good tv shows that get cancelled due to low ratings. Take Terminator Sarah Connor Chronicles for example, good show some filler but good overall, slated to hell and back unfairly when it was on in that second season and yet now it's gone those same people all say it was awesome....yeah make your mind up before it's too late folks! Some of us get it already and are way ahead of you.....trouble is there's not 10 million of those, and it's the exact same thing with TNA. Except low TV ratings alone won't kill TNA.

If TNA folded today I would say it had flashes of potential in its eight year history surrounded by utter failure at every level. TNA has provided nothing that other promotions have not provided and better. If I cared about in ring action I'd watch ROH, if I want storytelling I watch WWE, TNA on very few occasions put the two together and when they did their peak was much lower than the WWE's. AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle never would be compared to Shawn vs. Taker of last year, or even Shawn vs. Flair from the year before. TNA put on some good wrestling matches that I couldn't ever be bothered to watch because the "story" for those matches happening was to mind numbingly stupid. If you "get it" because you're way ahead of your time as a wrestling fan and TNA is offering a product that will be the future of wrestling as you suggest then sometime between now and then I will be referring to myself as a FORMER wrestling fan.

[GatorBait19]

I believe WCW had one of the highest ever rated segment in the monday night wars when Goldberg beat Hogan for the title

so it shows ratings mean something, but it isn't everything

[brashleyholland]

Don't know as we don't have the DVR figures etc. And don't know what we can glean from that.

It doesn't matter what we can glean from that because DVR figures mean nothing. The only reason people talk about things like DVR numbers is because their live numbers aren't good enough. It's classic spin. People have been recording things since the 80's, all of a sudden DVR numbers count? Nah, not having that.

Spike TV isn't interested in DVR numbers because they can't use them to sell advertising. It wouldn't matter to them, or TNA, if 10 million people DVR'd it every week. They're not watching live, which is the whole point of ratings in the first place.


I think more people are aware of TNA they are just not watching which is step 2 and a problem.

If people are aware of it and making an informed decision not to watch, then that's even worse than not being aware of it in the first place.

[thommohawk]

Stennick you might be there already mate, as for your comment on HHH wrestling rings (pub intended) around 90% of the TNA roster and WWE having better in ring product that is just completely false. TNA has consistently better in ring product than WWE does, or do you skip all the MCMG matches (hell even the knockouts are somewhat watchable!) and rather watch what's her name who used to have the mole on her face and who sings awfully flop around the ring or Hornswaggle take away every facade of legitimacy that the WWE had....WWE for the most part is boring outside of a handful of superstars and even fewer matches in the year. TNA on the other hand is the polar opposite. As for saying you'd say you wouldn't lament TNA's absense were it to implode, it's easy to say that now and I'm sure Terminator haters would have said the same thing about that program when it was on. Yet look at them now.....

As for my contritbution to TNA, I tune in! Dude I live in the UK, we don't get their PPV's on time or their TV shows on time, but we do get them for free. Just like we get most of WWE's PPV's free not that I watch any of them these days bar Wrestlemania. Point being I tune in and that's more than enough to know I'm doing my bit and recognizing their positive and few negatives with perspective because I pay attention unlike a lot of people....what about you my friend? What's your contribution besides negativity? Nothing I bet.

And that's another thing about people not paying attention, I was reading a recap of TNA the other day and he was hating on TNA at the part where Denero breaks Hogan out of the cuffs with the key and he said oh but Dinero happened to have the key....and yet if he'd been paying attention he'd know that AJ had the key on him, got beaten up by Dinero at which point the key obviously dropped and Dinero picked it up! What do you know, maybe Russo was right after all - people don't pay attention cos it's not spoon fed! lol

But seriously, I don't get what they're doing (or not doing) with Samoa Joe, nothing makes sense on that one no matter which way one looks at it. One of their top stars is hauled off into the back of a van and kidnapped as part of a storyline and yet they aren't promoting it at all in the 2 months since it happened ? Strange.....I'm expecting Joe to return repackaged though and maybe we'll get an explanation, because at the moment it's like come again ? And AbyssaMania ? Please!!

But on a positive note they have awesome talent, always have done, and how funny is Ric Flair at the moment? I think he's hilarious, I was howling the last week when he was whoo-ing constantly bopping around in his wheelchair sticking it to the fans and trying to wheel himself at 100mph lol!

[PeterHilton]

If TNA folded today I would say it had flashes of potential in its eight year history surrounded by utter failure at every level. TNA has provided nothing that other promotions have not provided and better. If I cared about in ring action I'd watch ROH, if I want storytelling I watch WWE, TNA on very few occasions put the two together and when they did their peak was much lower than the WWE's. AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle never would be compared to Shawn vs. Taker of last year, or even Shawn vs. Flair from the year before. TNA put on some good wrestling matches that I couldn't ever be bothered to watch because the "story" for those matches happening was to mind numbingly stupid. If you "get it" because you're way ahead of your time as a wrestling fan and TNA is offering a product that will be the future of wrestling as you suggest then sometime between now and then I will be referring to myself as a FORMER wrestling fan.

Somebody add the rep function to this board already, dammit ! :)

[PeterHilton]

Stennick you might be there already mate, as for your comment on HHH wrestling rings (pub intended) around 90% of the TNA roster and WWE having better in ring product that is just completely false. TNA has consistently better in ring product than WWE does, or do you skip all the MCMG matches (hell even the knockouts are somewhat watchable!) and rather watch what's her name who used to have the mole on her face and who sings awfully flop around the ring or Hornswaggle take away every facade of legitimacy that the WWE had....WWE for the most part is boring outside of a handful of superstars and even fewer matches in the year. TNA on the other hand is the polar opposite. As for saying you'd say you wouldn't lament TNA's absense were it to implode, it's easy to say that now and I'm sure Terminator haters would have said the same thing about that program when it was on. Yet look at them now.....

Your opinion. TNA is such a mess that I don't give a sh*t what's happening. Which = boring.

And guess what? A lot of people don't give a crap that Terminator was cancelled. Not a lick.

What's your contribution besides negativity? Nothing I bet.

Why would someone contribute to a prodcut they don't like?

What do you know, maybe Russo was right after all - people don't pay attention cos it's not spoon fed! lol

It's Russo's job to make a product that's easy to understand and relate to. Even if it means he has to 'spoon feed' people. That's his job. He's a writer.

Saying his stuff is "too complex" to be understood by the common fan is a masturbatory bullsh*t excuse for the fact that his writing is crap.

[joose2001]

Hadnt seen this posted so thought Id add it for you TNA fans


According to Pwinsider.com, sources within TNA have confirmed that Consequences Creed has been released from the company.


Source : PWinsider and 411mania

[Moe Hunter]

Vince fears Dixie sign in the Wrestlemania crowd tonight. That is two ppv's in a row hehe. Look for it when Bret celebrates and goes to the top right corner.
Well I guess if Vince happened to be standing directly under TNA Impact's ratings, he might fear that they're falling so fast they could kill him at any moment...

Other than that, who's the joke on? That guy paid hundreds of dollars to sit and watch Vince's product. No one pays a cent to get in to watch TNA live.

[thommohawk]

Your opinion.

Yes and I'm right. In my opinion in your opinion, but the million dollar question is who is right in actual fact....nobody. Because it's all subjective to a large extent.


And guess what? A lot of people don't give a crap that Terminator was cancelled. Not a lick.

Tell that to the many people who were hating on the show when it was on and who now think it's the best show ever now that it's cancelled.

TNA is such a mess that I don't give a sh*t what's happening. Which = boring.


Probably not paying attention, give a crap? What's wrong with just being entertained. I'm not over analyzing and yet I enjoy the show imagine that!


Saying his stuff is "too complex" to be understood by the common fan is a masturbatory bullsh*t excuse for the fact that his writing is crap.

Never said his writing was too complex, or that his writing wasn't crap. You are putting words in my mouth. What I said was that people clearly aren't paying attention when they watch TNA and the proof is in the pudding with the unfair hate. And that is a fact.


Why would someone contribute to a prodcut they don't like?


Given the context that you said this in, I have to ask why on Earth you are posting in this TNA thread? If you don't like TNA and you don't watch and you're questioning people's contribution to something you don't like then why are you posting in the TNA thread if you don't like it? Or are you just trolling.

[Self]

Hmm. Did I have Creed on my 'To Cut' list? I wasn't a big fan in a marky sense, but he was a fun X-Division guy.

Stennick you might be there already mate, as for your comment on HHH wrestling rings (pub intended) around 90% of the TNA roster and WWE having better in ring product that is just completely false. TNA has consistently better in ring product than WWE does, or do you skip all the MCMG matches (hell even the knockouts are somewhat watchable!) and rather watch what's her name who used to have the mole on her face and who sings awfully flop around the ring or Hornswaggle take away every facade of legitimacy that the WWE had....WWE for the most part is boring outside of a handful of superstars and even fewer matches in the year. TNA on the other hand is the polar opposite.

Neither is better. In ring, they're different styles. WWE is slower, more story-driven. TNA is faster, more move-orientated. Different strokes appealing to different folks. Personally, I like a mix. I wish WWE guys would speed up. I wish TNA guys would slow down. I actually wish both would start focussing on differentiation of fighting styles.

... and MCMG ain't that great. Fun tag team, cool dudes, I like them... but in terms of selling, psychology and realism they don't impress me much. Slow down.

[Hyde Hill]

Well I guess if Vince happened to be standing directly under TNA Impact's ratings, he might fear that they're falling so fast they could kill him at any moment...

Other than that, who's the joke on? That guy paid hundreds of dollars to sit and watch Vince's product. No one pays a cent to get in to watch TNA live.

Lolz. Joke is one no one. 8.000 people payed for a house show in the UK and Lockdown has already sold 4k ok this isn't the E in numbers etc but people do pay for TNA.

[Stennick]

Stennick you might be there already mate, as for your comment on HHH wrestling rings (pub intended) around 90% of the TNA roster and WWE having better in ring product that is just completely false. TNA has consistently better in ring product than WWE does, or do you skip all the MCMG matches (hell even the knockouts are somewhat watchable!) and rather watch what's her name who used to have the mole on her face and who sings awfully flop around the ring or Hornswaggle take away every facade of legitimacy that the WWE had....WWE for the most part is boring outside of a handful of superstars and even fewer matches in the year. TNA on the other hand is the polar opposite. As for saying you'd say you wouldn't lament TNA's absense were it to implode, it's easy to say that now and I'm sure Terminator haters would have said the same thing about that program when it was on. Yet look at them now....

March 8th
Hogan/Abyss vs. AJ/Flair
Daniels vs. Kaz vs. Williams
Sarita/Taylor Wilde vs. BP
Beer Money Inc vs. Jeff Jarett
Styles/Flair vs. Abyss Hogan

March 17th
Nasties/Jimmy Hart vs. Team 3D/Brother Runt
Angle/Wolfe vs. Dinero/Anderson (match was 3 minutes and 38 secs)
Angelina Love vs. Daffney (match was 1:19)
Hall vs. Nash
Beer Money vs. Hernandez
AJ Style vs. Jeff Hardy

So in these first two weeks tell me where are the MCMG matches? Where are the X Division matches? I count MAYBE two decent matches in the first two weeks of Impact. So yeah I'd like you to point out the superior in ring matches in the very first two weeks of Impact. Where are those Joe matches? Those MCMG matchse? Those Homicide matches? I keep hearing about how we're supposed to be looking at TNA now and not in the past. Where are these classic in ring matches? Where is the in ring product in those matches? The Nasties have had more in ring time than Kurt Angle. Flair and Hogan have had more in ring time than Homicide and the MCMG. So yeah I'm telling you with that line up Trips is better than 90 percent of it.

As for my contritbution to TNA, I tune in! Dude I live in the UK, we don't get their PPV's on time or their TV shows on time, but we do get them for free. Just like we get most of WWE's PPV's free not that I watch any of them these days bar Wrestlemania. Point being I tune in and that's more than enough to know I'm doing my bit and recognizing their positive and few negatives with perspective because I pay attention unlike a lot of people....what about you my friend? What's your contribution besides negativity? Nothing I bet.

Why would I contribute to a faulty product? There is some false notion by TNA fans that I need to support and contribute to something for the better of wrestling even if I hate it. I hate it and don't like what their doing why would I encourage it? So I can watch FOUR hours of horrible wrestling instead of two? Their job is to make me WANT to contribute. Its not my job to blindly contribute and support them, its their job to make me WANT to support and contribute. The argument that I should support them no matter what or contribute for the sake of contributing isn't worth the amount of time I just spent on it.

And that's another thing about people not paying attention, I was reading a recap of TNA the other day and he was hating on TNA at the part where Denero breaks Hogan out of the cuffs with the key and he said oh but Dinero happened to have the key....and yet if he'd been paying attention he'd know that AJ had the key on him, got beaten up by Dinero at which point the key obviously dropped and Dinero picked it up! What do you know, maybe Russo was right after all - people don't pay attention cos it's not spoon fed! lol

Trust me when laughing at TNA's bumbling ways I have more than enough to laugh at without trying to worry about things such as how Hogan got free. For all I know Abyss gave him his super ring and Hogan busted out of them. Wait Abyss did that a few weeks ago while Tenay said it was "the power of that ring".

But seriously, I don't get what they're doing (or not doing) with Samoa Joe, nothing makes sense on that one no matter which way one looks at it. One of their top stars is hauled off into the back of a van and kidnapped as part of a storyline and yet they aren't promoting it at all in the 2 months since it happened ? Strange.....I'm expecting Joe to return repackaged though and maybe we'll get an explanation, because at the moment it's like come again ? And AbyssaMania ? Please!!

This gives me hope that you do recognize that TNA's attempts at "storytelling" is a whole lot worse than WWE and thats really saying something with the state of the "E" these days.

But on a positive note they have awesome talent, always have done, and how funny is Ric Flair at the moment? I think he's hilarious, I was howling the last week when he was whoo-ing constantly bopping around in his wheelchair sticking it to the fans and trying to wheel himself at 100mph lol!

I just showed you that it doesn't matter how much "talent" they have. That talent is being left off the television shows. Where is Joe? MCMG? Homicide? Daniels? Kurt Angle? these guys either aren't featured at all or aren't featured in the ring? It doesn't matter if they bring in every talented guy in the world when Hogan, Abyss, Flair, Handicap matches, WolfPac and the Nasties are taking up the match time on TNA Impact.

[thommohawk]

Lolz. Joke is one no one. 8.000 people payed for a house show in the UK and Lockdown has already sold 4k ok this isn't the E in numbers etc but people do pay for TNA.

And there's a very good reason for that. Breakneck speed good wrestling. You can tell MCMG and teams like Generation Me and Beer Money are excellent because I used to hate tag team wrestling but I'd only ever seen them to the extent that WWF/E and WCW used to produce on the weekly - but I can't get enough of TNA's tag team division because of Beer Money, MCMG, Gen Me and etc. Between that, X Division, breakneck pace wrestling, AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Anderson, Sting, RVD and the star power of Hogan and Bischoff I'm pretty much loving TNA more than usual at the moment.

People love to rag on TNA obviously, but just think how far TNA have come in 8 years, and hate Hogan&Bischoff all you want but TNA's grown under them too with all the new additions and the move to live on Monday night - TNA has done nothing but grow in the last 8 years and even now it's still growing - and just imagine where they'll be in another 8 years!

It's strange though that TNA are regional in many ways and yet global in many ways too. Reflecting on this then perhaps they're punching above their weight right now in all that they've achieved? Not for me given the quality of the in ring product, if they could just add good characters to their home grown talent they'd be dangerous. The problem they've got is that creatively a lot of it if not all of it has been done before on the worldwide stage, whereas before with WWF and WCW what they ripped from overseas or regional promotions hadn't been done before in front of the worldwide audience and so now they are finding it extremely difficult to give people something new that they haven't already seen before. Especially when the inspiration is as dry as a bone.


So in these first two weeks tell me where are the MCMG matches? Where are the X Division matches? I count MAYBE two decent matches in the first two weeks of Impact.

You didn't watch Destination X just the other week? Have you watched TNA at all these last few weeks ?


I just showed you that it doesn't matter how much "talent" they have. That talent is being left off the television shows. Where is Joe? MCMG? Homicide? Daniels? Kurt Angle? these guys either aren't featured at all or aren't featured in the ring? It doesn't matter if they bring in every talented guy in the world when Hogan, Abyss, Flair, Handicap matches, WolfPac and the Nasties are taking up the match time on TNA Impact.

Obviously you didn't watch Impact last week......it shows anyway that you're a hater because the only time you're somewhat friendly with me is when I'm being negative about TNA. Except the difference is I'm rightly being negative about TNA and rightly positive about TNA - where warranted. The big difference between me and you is that I don't give unwarranted praise or unwarranted criticism. Even about some of you guys. You might not like me, but that does not mean that I'm not right. I tell you the truth, and I don't need biased opinions to validate my opinions or the facts and that's just the way that it is and you can't stand that I'm aware of that and that I don't need you to validate me. In short, I know I'm right with the things I've pointed out so why the hate? If you think I'm an ******* then that's okay but don't be twisting the facts to suit your version.

[PeterHilton]

Yes and I'm right. In my opinion in your opinion, but the million dollar question is who is right in actual fact....nobody. Because it's all subjective to a large extent.

Totally true. Except that there are some numbers (ratings, buy rates, etc) out there. And when you discuss public perception it's fair to bring those up.

Tell that to the many people who were hating on the show when it was on and who now think it's the best show ever now that it's cancelled.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You might visit too many message boards because there's been very little public outcry about that show in the mainstream.

Never said his writing was too complex, or that his writing wasn't crap. You are putting words in my mouth. What I said was that people clearly aren't paying attention when they watch TNA and the proof is in the pudding with the unfair hate. And that is a fact.

I know you didn't say it. I didn't mean to imply you did. But I've heard and read Russo say that before and its a BS excuse.

Hating a show can't be unfair. It's not the job of the consumer to be entertained. It's the other way around. If I don't like something because it's not clear, you can only use the excuse that "I'm not paying attention" so often.

Because..guess what..if the majority of the viewing audience doesn't get what you're trying to convey, you're not too smart for the room...you fricking suck.

Given the context that you said this in, I have to ask why on Earth you are posting in this TNA thread? If you don't like TNA and you don't watch and you're questioning people's contribution to something you don't like then why are you posting in the TNA thread if you don't like it? Or are you just trolling.

Because every once in a while - like when they close a PPV with Angle/Wolfe followed by Daniels/Joe/AJ - i see how good TNA could be.

[thommohawk]

Totally true. Except that there are some numbers (ratings, buy rates, etc) out there. And when you discuss public perception it's fair to bring those up.


And yet how much of that equates to show quality or creative success and how much of public perception discussion is based on numbers as opposed to creative? Not a lot. Hence it is mostly subjective.


I have no idea what you're talking about. You might visit too many message boards because there's been very little public outcry about that show in the mainstream.

Except on IGN and that's just for starters. If you're going to play that game then I could say the exact same thing about wrestling and this board in terms of mainstream.


I know you didn't say it. I didn't mean to imply you did. But I've heard and read Russo say that before and its a BS excuse.

Hating a show can't be unfair. It's not the job of the consumer to be entertained. It's the other way around. If I don't like something because it's not clear, you can only use the excuse that "I'm not paying attention" so often.

Because..guess what..if the majority of the viewing audience doesn't get what you're trying to convey, you're not too smart for the room...you fricking suck.


I'm not disagreeing about Russo. And yet it still doesn't change the fact that a lot of people aren't paying attention when they should be doing when they watch TNA which straight away proves a point that people judge too quickly on general principle, miss the point and then get it wrong. Then people like me correct them, then proceed to get shoved down the gutter for pointing out a fact.


Because every once in a while - like when they close a PPV with Angle/Wolfe followed by Daniels/Joe/AJ - i see how good TNA could be.

Now this point you made I totally agree with, in all fairness that was one awesome PPV and match!

[PeterHilton]

Obviously you didn't watch Impact last week......it shows anyway that you're a hater because the only time you're somewhat friendly with me is when I'm being negative about TNA. Except the difference is I'm rightly being negative about TNA and rightly positive about TNA - where warranted. The big difference between me and you is that I don't give unwarranted praise or unwarranted criticism. Even about some of you guys. You might not like me, but that does not mean that I'm not right. I tell you the truth, and I don't need biased opinions to validate my opinions or the facts and that's just the way that it is and you can't stand that I'm aware of that and that I don't need you to validate me. In short, I know I'm right with the things I've pointed out so why the hate? If you think I'm an ******* then that's okay but don't be twisting the facts to suit your version.

They've put together two decent Impacts. Calm down.

The last part of that paragraph is you giving your opinion of your opinion. Calm down some more.

[Hyde Hill]

They've put together two decent Impacts. Calm down.

The last part of that paragraph is you giving your opinion of your opinion. Calm down some more.

Hear! Hear! Everybody chill. Both Stennick and Tommohawk are making decent points but are either overstating them or getting too aggravated. Relax and lets hope this weeks Impact will be as good as last weeks despite the OJ stuff.

PS number wise house shows are up, merch sales are up and ppv buys are up and ratings where, unfortunately lost them due to bad booking, up. Not by shocking amounts mind you.

[PeterHilton]

And yet how much of that equates to show quality or creative success and how much of public perception discussion is based on numbers as opposed to creative? Not a lot. Hence it is mostly subjective.

Actually, if you read through this thread, A LOT of the discussion about TNA's success or lack thereof is based on numbers. You should try rreading other people's posts.

Especially on a board with a bunch of wrestling sim geeks that generally don't argue by saying things like "you all hate me becaue I'm right! bleargh"

Except on IGN and that's just for starters. If you're going to play that game then I could say the exact same thing about wrestling and this board in terms of mainstream.

IGN is a board composed of sci fi nerds, and movie geeks. This is a board composed of sci fi nerds, and wreslting geeks. And you could definitely say that in terms of the mainstream and this board:

IGN is not a reflection of the mainstream TV viewer. Most people don't care about Terminator.

This board is not a reflection of the mainstream wrestling fan. Most people don't watch wrestling the way a lot of the people on these boards do.

So what do you do? Oh yeah, fall back on the numbers, which actually do reflect mainstream opinion in a lot of ways.

I'm not disagreeing about Russo. And yet it still doesn't change the fact that a lot of people aren't paying attention when they should be doing when they watch TNA which straight away proves a point that people judge too quickly on general principle, miss the point and then get it wrong. Then people like me correct them, then proceed to get shoved down the gutter for pointing out a fact.

You're not getting it. TV is a 'majority rules' kinda deal. If you're writing isn't clear to the point where other people have to consistently run around explaining all these subtle nuances etc the problem is the writing, not the viewer.

[Hyde Hill]

Because..guess what..if the majority of the viewing audience doesn't get what you're trying to convey, you're not too smart for the room...you fricking suck.



Because every once in a while - like when they close a PPV with Angle/Wolfe followed by Daniels/Joe/AJ - i see how good TNA could be.

On one depends on the room you are trying to attract but seeing that they are trying to attract the mainstream yes its bad. But there have been unfair criticisms on TNA in the past because "reviewers" totally missed something that was quite glaringly obvious.

On two yeps and its so frustrating that the bad parts are so glaringly obvious. TNA could just use one guy that acts as a BS filter and it would be so much better.

Hogan: I want to bring in the nasties because...

No!

Bischoff: I want to use OJ bisex gimmick

No!

Lets have AJ be mentored by Flair

Yes

Lets turn AJ into a little copy of Flair

No!

Lets have Hogan give Abyss back his confidence

Yes!

Lets use the ring not only be symbolic but actually have the power and give abyss the american made theme and yellow and red flakes on his shirt.

No!

And so on.

[thommohawk]

This board is not a reflection of the mainstream wrestling fan. So what?


Nothing. Absolutely nothing. As ever I'm just pointing out a fact. Seems you don't like it none too much.

Nobody cares about Terminator? Really dude? That's why T1 and T2 especially were movies that paved the way for the movies we see today every summer? Different times obviously but the point is still the same. Half of the crap you've tried to peddle on me has been completely false. Everything I've actually said to you has been completely true - welcome to the wonderful world of forums for me I guess - leave the real world at the door and enjoy the BS. If that's the way forums go I can do BS with the best of them. But it seems people don't like that too much either when I do it lol. Got no chance unless you have over 1000 posts so it seems.

Anyways, just so there's no confusion, I'm calm people. If I wasn't I'd be swearing like crazy insulting all of you and then I'd end up banned so I'm good right now....you'll know when I'm not. ;)

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm ok then instead of calm try uber calm.

Half of the crap you've tried to peddle on me has been completely false. Everything I've actually said to you has been completely true - welcome to the wonderful world of forums for me I guess - leave the real world at the door and enjoy the BS.

This is not a calm statement. Please arguments etc.

Also on this board yes we are wrestling geeks and what we personally like isn't a reflection of the mainstream but a lot of posters on here are able to look at things from the marks perspective which is the right way to be critical.

On Creed not the guy I would cut but the roster is bloated as is and there where worse choices.

[thommohawk]

Hmm ok then instead of calm try uber calm.

This is not a calm statement. Please arguments etc.

Also on this board yes we are wrestling geeks and what we personally like isn't a reflection of the mainstream but a lot of posters on here are able to look at things from the marks perspective which is the right way to be critical.


Point taken, no problem and thank you.:) See what happens when someone is respectful about how they actually say something? There's no arguments....and when people are respectful to me and my opinion then I'm respectful to them and theirs.


On Creed not the guy I would cut but the roster is bloated as is and there where worse choices.

As unremarkable as Consequences Creed was and as little as he'd been used I'd rather it have been OJ....speaking of Creed though how much of his gimmick was inspired by Apollo Creed out of Rocky movies or am I reading too much into that with the black guy, same surname, American trunks etc ?

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah it was Apollo Creed related but blame the talent himself for that one not Russo. He used those trunks etc in the indies and wanted to use them in TNA. TNA ok'ed it off course which is their responsibility but its not 100 percent on them.

PS if you want to do some ranting and flaming there are plenty of other sites out there where that is the norm and or acceptable lolz. When I want to put my 100 percent mark hat on I go there as well but still keep civil. Never got the appeal of the swearing and personal attacks. Not implying you went that far.

Edit: Also rumor going about that the Nasties are gone, fingers crossed and waiting for true confirmation.

[PeterHilton]

Nobody cares about Terminator? Really dude? That's why T1 and T2 especially were movies that paved the way for the movies we see today every summer?

Terminator the show. Obviously. Since that's what we were talking about.

Don't be obtuse on purpose.

As for why people treat you with disrespect:

Different times obviously but the point is still the same. Half of the crap you've tried to peddle on me has been completely false. Everything I've actually said to you has been completely true - welcome to the wonderful world of forums for me I guess - leave the real world at the door and enjoy the BS. If that's the way forums go I can do BS with the best of them. But it seems people don't like that too much either when I do it lol. Got no chance unless you have over 1000 posts so it seems.



WTF are you talking about? Truth and non-truth? "Everything I've said has been completely true" ? "What I said was that people clearly aren't paying attention when they watch TNA and the proof is in the pudding with the unfair hate" ?

Basically any time someone disagrees with you, they are lying or something. I don't HAVE to agree with you. That doesn't mean I'm not 'peddling crap.'

[jesterx7769]

Yes Nasty Boyz Are Gone!!!!

[Hyde Hill]

Yes Nasty Boyz Are Gone!!!!

Jumps for Joy!!!! PWI confirms!!! And it seems the Band is on thin ice as well if Hogan was shooting with Bubba.

[PeterHilton]

Jumps for Joy!!!! PWI confirms!!! And it seems the Band is on thin ice as well if Hogan was shooting with Bubba.

where are you all seeing this?

[Bigpapa42]

If the Nasty's are gone, I am happy. A step in the right direction.

[Hyde Hill]

where are you all seeing this?

One on Pro Wrestling Insider which imo is the least unreliable source around. The band on thin ice was during a Bubba radio interview with Hogan. If he was shooting it seems Dixie and Spike really dislike them and Hogan dislikes Hall but he wants to bring real closure to the NWO storyline in TNA. I heard the show on Youtube ill see if I can dig it up.

Here is part one of three Peter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtLz-9VwOgw

Hogan also said the Foley punch was a shoot as it was scripted to be a shove hehe. Thanks Foley.

[jesterx7769]

PWI took the Nastyz article down.

[Hyde Hill]

PWI took the Nastyz article down.

Grrrrr not over yet it seems. Or at least now isn't "official" anymore.

[Bigpapa42]

One on Pro Wrestling Insider which imo is the least unreliable source around. The band on thin ice was during a Bubba radio interview with Hogan. If he was shooting it seems Dixie and Spike really dislike them and Hogan dislikes Hall but he wants to bring real closure to the NWO storyline in TNA. I heard the show on Youtube ill see if I can dig it up.


I don't really get that approach. Why bother bringing "closure"? Sure, there would be some fans expecting a reformation with Hogan and Nash both around, but there always will be fans expecting it. If you don't acknowledge it, tease it, or put the idea in fans heads, closure is unnecessary for something that ended - in its original form - over a decade ago.

If you want to move past something, then move on. Reusing it, even partway, is trying to exploit it again.

[Hyde Hill]

Who says Hogan's intent isn't exploiting. He isn't doing it for his own peace of mind its exploiting the idea of putting a definitive end to the whole thing instead of the fizzle out it got in WCW and WWE. If that is a good idea is a whole other matter.

[PeterHilton]

One on Pro Wrestling Insider which imo is the least unreliable source around. The band on thin ice was during a Bubba radio interview with Hogan. If he was shooting it seems Dixie and Spike really dislike them and Hogan dislikes Hall but he wants to bring real closure to the NWO storyline in TNA. I heard the show on Youtube ill see if I can dig it up.

Here is part one of three Peter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtLz-9VwOgw

Hogan also said the Foley punch was a shoot as it was scripted to be a shove hehe. Thanks Foley.

I'm never sure how much of that show is real and how much is work.

Actually, now that I'm listening to it: it's mostly work on this segment.

[thommohawk]

When you think about it, that can be appealing. Not knowing how much is legit or how much is a red herring - guess if you wanna know you gotta tune in - that's the idea anyway, though most just hate on it and act like they actually saw what they are hating on lol...which is a whole other topic of first hand hate or second hand sheep.

[Bigpapa42]

Who says Hogan's intent isn't exploiting. He isn't doing it for his own peace of mind its exploiting the idea of putting a definitive end to the whole thing instead of the fizzle out it got in WCW and WWE. If that is a good idea is a whole other matter.

I just recall have discussion with people when Hogan first came in and there was talk of Hall and Waltman coming in that Hogan/Bischoff were exploiting old ideas like the NWO because they couldn't move forward. It was argued that it wasn't living in the past or exploiting the NWO, but "bringing closure" because "that was necessary". It may not have been on here even, but I recall stating how I felt about an NWO-reunion in TNA back in late December even.

[PeterHilton]

When you think about it, that can be appealing. Not knowing how much is legit or how much is a red herring - guess if you wanna know you gotta tune in - that's the idea anyway, though most just hate on it and act like they actually saw what they are hating on lol...which is a whole other topic of first hand hate or second hand sheep.

Bubba? You know we're talking about Bubba's radio show right?

[Hyde Hill]

I just recall have discussion with people when Hogan first came in and there was talk of Hall and Waltman coming in that Hogan/Bischoff were exploiting old ideas like the NWO because they couldn't move forward. It was argued that it wasn't living in the past or exploiting the NWO, but "bringing closure" because "that was necessary". It may not have been on here even, but I recall stating how I felt about an NWO-reunion in TNA back in late December even.

Don't think it was on here. Only thing I posted was that the visual on jan 4th was good with Hogan telling them those times where over. Expected them to get their rear ends handed to them next Impact and ride off in the sunset or at most at Genesis. Neither happened. Now they just need to go as their is already too much nostalgia and with Sting, Hogan and Flair they pretty much have the same fans covered especially if you just kept Nash.

Yep on the Bubba stuff thats why I typed If he was shooting should have noted that is a very big if though.

[Eisen-verse]

I like TNA..... BUT....

That opening segment was pretty weak. ha.

[Bigpapa42]

Don't think it was on here. Only thing I posted was that the visual on jan 4th was good with Hogan telling them those times where over. Expected them to get their rear ends handed to them next Impact and ride off in the sunset or at most at Genesis. Neither happened. Now they just need to go as their is already too much nostalgia and with Sting, Hogan and Flair they pretty much have the same fans covered especially if you just kept Nash.

Eh, my memory is getting muddled.

Even if Hall and Waltman had just been the one show, I still think it would have been exploitive and unnecessary. Much like the Nasty Boys being around, it seemed too much like Hogan and Nash getting their buddies one last pay day. Plus Hogan and Bischoff need to be looking foward, not backward, in my opinion. That is an aspect that has bothered me since the start of the regime. I'm not against a bit of nostalgia... but as you say, the likes of Hogan, Flair, and Sting has that aspect covered.

[PeterHilton]

Everything Lethal does is pure gold.

[Slagaholic]

How can you not love Pope?

[RingofHonorGuard]

You know what would be awesome? If the Nasty Boys stayed in TNA, and feuded with Jay Lethal... who teams with, you guessed it, The Red and Yellow Monster, Abyss! I know Hogan doesn't want to do in-ring wrestling.. but he can manage! Macho Man Jay Lethal with a Retro 80's Mega Power Hogan would be enough to keep me tuned in. Nasty Boys vs. The Lethal Powers to start it off, because it would give Hogan an excuse to keep the sows around. And they're entertaining, I don't care what anyone says.

[Hyde Hill]

The Lethal Powers and EY vs The Band maybe instead of the nasties? EY can be channeling Brutus the barber or something lol.

[Slagaholic]

I would drive down to Orlando to see that match.

[RingofHonorGuard]

The Lethal Powers and EY vs The Band maybe instead of the nasties? EY can be channeling Brutus the barber or something lol.

That's actually a pretty damn good idea. I think they should just let the great minds of GDS forums run TNA.

[PeterHilton]

How can you not love Pope?

Impossible. He's a rock star.

A JOE SIGHTING!

[Slagaholic]

If they make Orlando Jordan another Goldust, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[jesterx7769]

Pope= Awesome.

[jesterx7769]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

TNA has one of the best segments under the new regime in the Pope which I loved everything about

- Great mic work and if he was 2-4 inches taller WWE wouldnt have let him go
- Chelsea comes out, does a decent job, of course youre wondering where is this going?
- Wolfe coming out of the crowind, think oh crap!
- HOld this for a minute, boom kicks Wolfe out
- Kisses the girl then drops her! Awesome

Commerical break...

then you have the worst segment under the new regime with a guy coming down from the rafters wrapped in tape and just happens to have a couch all set up? Didn't even get a promo to explain crap? Should Dixie or HOgan be like, um you brother, you gotta move your couch backstage we dont want to orgy goin off on here brother.

Just unbelievable, things were going so well tonight too

[TracyBrooksFan]

not a bad Impact so far

and welcome back Brooke Adams

[jesterx7769]

Did anyone find it ironic when Lethal put his matches together they were workers TNA has probably already offered contracts to?

[Slagaholic]

If they offered Junkyard Dog a contract they're extremely inept, far more than anyone ever could imagine.

[haloed]

Loving the Jay Lethal stuff tonight. Pretty solid show up to this point imo.

[Remianen]

As for my contritbution to TNA, I tune in! Dude I live in the UK, we don't get their PPV's on time or their TV shows on time, but we do get them for free. Just like we get most of WWE's PPV's free not that I watch any of them these days bar Wrestlemania. Point being I tune in and that's more than enough to know I'm doing my bit and recognizing their positive and few negatives with perspective because I pay attention unlike a lot of people....what about you my friend? What's your contribution besides negativity? Nothing I bet.

Ha! Um, I worked for Viacom. I did much of the travel for Spike (UFC and TNA events mainly but also the preproduction of 'Jesse James is a Dead Man' and several of the award shows, among others). I have UFC and TNA merch up the wazoo (much of it signed). I bought a lot of that stuff. Granted, some of the events I attended were work related (someone had to be there onsite to make itinerary changes and such) but a few of them weren't. Heck, there were two times I went to an event and wound up working, helping out a colleague (onsites aren't for everyone).

You see, you seem to be one of those people who thinks that anyone who states a dissenting opinion is just 'spouting negativity'. Sorry. I've seen the young guys (and girls) in TNA who bust their asses to put on the best show possible. I've seen Kia Stevens (Awesome Kong) sign autographs for two hours after Destination X in 2008 while Karen Angle turned her nose up at fans (said she was tired. WTF! YOU DIDN'T WRESTLE!). Yeah, I was there. I've seen how a lot of these young guys are DESPERATE to get (more) fans more into the product, while the old hands could really care less (they've made their money and their names, so who cares, right? :rolleyes:).

So excuse me if I think that those same young guys getting tossed aside so these old dudes can scoop up more cash and then leave when the money runs out (or is no longer being offered as liberally) is a bunch of (crap). Pardon me if the opinion that investing in your young talent NOW will pay dividends later is some kind of foreign concept to you.

Oh and by the way, I have a friend in Kent who gets stuff from the TNA Shop with no problems. If the only thing that keeps MCMG and Pope relevant to TNA management is their merch sales, at least I can say I contributed to that. Let's see, Taz's hoodie, Tara's t-shirt, 3 different AJ Styles t-shirts, Jeff Jarrett "The Founder" t-shirt (signed in glow in the dark ink), Pope is Pimpin' t-shirt, Alyssa Flash poster, yeah I've got a lot.

All I'm saying is those people who call themselves TNA fans who do nothing but stare at the tube once a week, may not be all they think they are.

Everything Lethal does is pure gold.

How can you not love Pope?

Honestly, I'd TiVo TNA every week if I was guaranteed Lethal and Pope promos.

[Remianen]

If they offered Junkyard Dog a contract they're extremely inept, far more than anyone ever could imagine.

Yeah, especially since he's been dead for like 10 years. :p

[PeterHilton]

Ha! Um, I worked for Viacom...

HA! Everything you say is 50% lies while all thommohawk speaks is the truth! If you don't think so you weren't paying attention.

Who knows where you got that pciture from.

It could be any black guy with glasses...Malcolm X..Raj from What's Happening..Junkyard Dog (in glasses)..ANYONE!

[jesterx7769]

You know what I just realized? If neither Pope or Wofe were part of TNA, I honestly don't think I would watch anymore, kinda like how I stopped watching last year, there just wasn't anyone I cared about. These two guys are fresh, great in ring and out, have GREAT personalities/gimmicks, are they WWE Main event levels? Heck no, but for TNA they are damn good upper midcarders. Love it, love it, love it, this is what people mean when they say mix in the new guys with the old and like I said a long time ago, each Nasty promo/match, each time Bischoff/Hogan or Foley/JJ is on TV is time these guys could be having, yes we need the older guys, but taking off just 5 minutes from them is a whole new match.

BTW, Lethal also= awesome, eventhough is outfit was a bit odd for his first time on tv in awhile.

edit: however i did not like Wolfe beating the #1 contender but that is nitpicking.

[PeterHilton]

You know what I just realized? If neither Pope or Wofe were part of TNA, I honestly don't think I would watch anymore, kinda like how I stopped watching last year, there just wasn't anyone I cared about. These two guys are fresh, great in ring and out, have GREAT personalities/gimmicks, are they WWE Main event levels? Heck no, but for TNA they are damn good upper midcarders. Love it, love it, love it, this is what people mean when they say mix in the new guys with the old and like I said a long time ago, each Nasty promo/match, each time Bischoff/Hogan or Foley/JJ is on TV is time these guys could be having, yes we need the older guys, but taking off just 5 minutes from them is a whole new match.

BTW, Lethal also= awesome, eventhough is outfit was a bit odd for his first time on tv in awhile.

edit: however i did not like Wolfe beating the #1 contender but that is nitpicking.

Little disappointed by this match tonight but I agree with you on Wolfe and Dinero

Matter off act...Vince & Co have to be kicking themselves for not letting Dinero do this with the E. His character could've been PG pretty easy and if you put him in Killings place on SD you would've had ten times the return...he's younger, a better wrestler, a bettter promo, and he can work as a heel where the 'hip-hoppy' thing doesn't transition well to the bad guy thing.

The screwed that up big time. Put Dinero on the WWE roster and he's the most talented 'young guy' in the company.

[jesterx7769]

The match wasn't the best they've had but I think you got I didn't mean that, just in general they are awesome, waaay better than jack swagger or other WWE young guns, Pope is basically what WWE wants R-Truth to be.

edit (im on an edit kick tonight) Pope's promo tonight was Rock/Jericho caliber which sure as hell impressed me (and im a very pessimistic picky person :p )

[Eisen-verse]

Damn good promo from Mr. Anderson.

[jesterx7769]

Damn good promo from Mr. Anderson.

Agreed, he didnt over sell it. and for some reason I like his look alot more in jeans, t-shirt, and a hat instead of trying to cool with his back tat and blonde spikey hair.

[jesterx7769]

Crap keep forgetting, did any1 read anything this past week about Styles hand? ive stayed away from spoilers but he obvioulsy cut it on the guitar some how

edit once again! I keep forgetting all these weeks, who else is impressed with Nash's physique? I've thought that for aawhile but he is in damn good shape for his age and size.

[PeterHilton]

The match wasn't the best they've had but I think you got I didn't mean that, just in general they are awesome, waaay better than jack swagger or other WWE young guns, Pope is basically what WWE wants R-Truth to be.

edit (im on an edit kick tonight) Pope's promo tonight was Rock/Jericho caliber which sure as hell impressed me (and im a very pessimistic picky person :p )

Yup. like I said, you stick him back in the E and let him work THIS gimmick (which seems like a natural extension of his personality) and the only person who sniffs his potential is Morrison.

[Slagaholic]

The show is getting better. Heels going over all show long, but in the main event the faces get a measure of justice.

Am I the only enjoying the feeling of nostalgia of the wrestlers pushing "April 18th in St. Louis". Reminds me of the territory days.

[The Final Countdown]

The show is getting better. Heels going over all show long, but in the main event the faces get a measure of justice.

Am I the only enjoying the feeling of nostalgia of the wrestlers pushing "April 18th in St. Louis". Reminds me of the territory days.
Despite the fact that the Family Arena isn't in St. Louis, despite what TNA says. ;)

[TommyDreamerFan]

another good show. it was a rough start but I think they finally found their happy medium.

I'm liking the talent being spread around every week so we don't see the same people over and over. In the long run, it's going to increase everyone's on-screen shelf life.

[Eisen-verse]

another good show. it was a rough start but I think they finally found their happy medium.

I'm liking the talent being spread around every week so we don't see the same people over and over. In the long run, it's going to increase everyone's on-screen shelf life.

Agreed.

The opening segment was horrid. I really, really, dislike hearing Jeff Hardy trying to talk in a forceful manor. wow. So bad; even still after years.

Outside of that, It got much better! Here are some other thoughts:

* Orlando Jordan's new gimmick just made me laugh the entire time. I'm very liberal, So it's not the idea of the gimmick that made me laugh, but rather the way in which it was presented. It looked soo god awfully funny. That being said, I hope they keep on going over the top with his character. I dunno... Just seems to fit. ha.

* Shannon Moore can work pretty well, and I like his new gimmick, but get rid of the necklace. It's not a "be all/end all" thing but rather just my prerogative. That said, I never thought I would care for the guy but he's really intriguing to watch.

* I like Nash, Waltman, and Hall but even I'm somewhat bored with them already. ha.

* I still love Eric Bischoff. One of the best Heel authority figures of all-time. I know some may think his act is getting alittle to stale but I love the guy. I'd rather see him on a weekly basis versus Hogan. Then again, I would take Heyman over both Hogan and Bischoff if given the chance. Just call it ECW-loyalty.

* I really loved all that Jay Lethal did tonight. Hilarious! Good to see him pick up a flash-pinfall in the match too as it keeps us, the viewer, on our feet. Not the same outcome as the prior weeks with Beer Money.

* I don't know why... But I'm not feeling "The Pope". I'm sure he'll grown on me but I'd rather see TNA focus more on Desmond Wolfe instead. Develop him into an overly aggressive, cold-hearted, "killing machine". In the end, The Pope's character confuses me more than anything else. His attire, his persona, just everything about him. He's a great 'worker' though. Like I said, maybe it'll just take time as I really DO want to like him. Just having a hard-time doing so thus far.

* The people I would like to see pushed: Desmond Wolfe, AJ Styles (I know he's being pushed, but, I'd like to see a lengthy title reign to cement his newfound arrogance. Plus, I think he's great in this role with Flair), and Amazing Red (The next Rey Jr./WCW version).

[PeterHilton]

and Amazing Red (The next Rey Jr./WCW version).

I agreed with almost everything you said til you said this. Red's not in his league. Not even close. Rey in his prime in WCW wrestles circles around Red.

[TommyDreamerFan]

- Jason Powell of Prowrestling.net is reporting that The Nasty Boys (Brian Knobbs and Jerry Saggs) are no longer with TNA.

Ok. Would it have killed them (Nastys/Bookers) to job to say, the MCMG on their way out the door? I mean christ, you already spent time bringing them in and building them up. Waste of dollars to bring in guys for 2 months

[Eisen-verse]

I agreed with almost everything you said til you said this. Red's not in his league. Not even close. Rey in his prime in WCW wrestles circles around Red.

Yea, He's not a carbon copy of him as pre-WWE Rey was simply amazing! However, the reason why I liken him to Rey is because of his lightning quick speed & the ability to chain wrestle in an accelerated manor. He would be the perfect underdog character if booked right. Then again, maybe it's just cause I like the guy.... ha.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Yea, He's not a carbon copy of him as pre-WWE Rey was simply amazing! However, the reason why I liken him to Rey is because of his lightning quick speed & the ability to chain wrestle in an accelerated manor. He would be the perfect underdog character if booked right. Then again, maybe it's just cause I like the guy.... ha.

Yeah... okay... maybe if he came back rocking the rag on his head and the baggy pants, but he's got this Taka Michinoku look going on and well... hell... it didn't work for TAKA in 1996 it's not going to work now.

[BHK1978]

I only got to see the main event and it was...really...bad

It lasted like what four or five minutes! That is just horrible!:D

[Eisen-verse]

Yeah... okay... maybe if he came back rocking the rag on his head and the baggy pants, but he's got this Taka Michinoku look going on and well... hell... it didn't work for TAKA in 1996 it's not going to work now.

WHAT?!?! I liked Taka!

haha.

That being said, I agree. His look needs to be revamped a little.

[Linsolv]

1) I like Dinero. I liked his look, back when I wasn't watching and I downloaded a mod for TEW. Now that I'm watching again, he's just DRIPPING coolness!

2) Orlando Jordan's very risque entrance might've gone better (IMO) if he'd, say, wrestled a match some time during the show.

EDIT: Almost forgot:

3) I spent a few months as a closet fan, and if people would come by while I was watching wrestling, I'd turn the TV off. Since then, I feel like I've gotten to the point that I can comfortably keep on watching.

The exception is Shannon Moore, whose (IMO) ridiculous look makes me embarrassed to be watching.

[TommyDreamerFan]

1) I like Dinero. I liked his look, back when I wasn't watching and I downloaded a mod for TEW. Now that I'm watching again, he's just DRIPPING coolness!

2) Orlando Jordan's very risque entrance might've gone better (IMO) if he'd, say, wrestled a match some time during the show.

Did anyone else find it kind of dis-respectful that he lowered from the rafters on a towel tied to two cords? Kinda brought back memories of Owen Hart and ticked me off kind of.

[jesterx7769]

1)

2) Orlando Jordan's very risque entrance might've gone better (IMO) if he'd, say, wrestled a match some time during the show.



exatly, what was the point of it? Hence the nonsense booking, at least WWE would have him do a quick promo or have him wrestle a match, instead we just get this bi black guy dangling in yellow tape being lowered from the rafters in caution tape, seriously, what was with the rafters? Is this really what will make people tune in next week?

[Slagaholic]

You think they're hinging on viewers turning on the show next Monday on a 3 minute segment 1/2 way through the show?

[Linsolv]

You think they're hinging on viewers turning on the show next Monday on a 3 minute segment 1/2 way through the show?

No, he thinks that they're hinging on a series of 3 minute segments, as well as the overall logic that runs throughout them.

In short, "the chain's only as strong as the weakest link," in a sense.

[Hyde Hill]

Ok. Would it have killed them (Nastys/Bookers) to job to say, the MCMG on their way out the door? I mean christ, you already spent time bringing them in and building them up. Waste of dollars to bring in guys for 2 months

Think the only team that could have used that was Lethal Consequences or after their Terry Squashes the British Invasion and even then it wouldn't have been a big of a rub. So really not minding if PWI has reconfirmed it.

[brashleyholland]

exatly, what was the point of it? Hence the nonsense booking, at least WWE would have him do a quick promo or have him wrestle a match, instead we just get this bi black guy dangling in yellow tape being lowered from the rafters in caution tape, seriously, what was with the rafters? Is this really what will make people tune in next week?

I'll say this for it...having a half naked 240lb bisexual wrapped in yellow tape up in the rafters makes me more wary of going up there than Sting ever did...

[TommyDreamerFan]

I'll say this for it...having a half naked 240lb bisexual wrapped in yellow tape up in the rafters makes me more wary of going up there than Sting ever did...

Theres a storyline here, what was Orlando doing up in Sting's rafters huh? OMG SUDDENLY THE HEEL TURN MAKES SENSE! STINGER'S SWINGING HIS BAT FOR THE OTHER TEAM!

[fatallylost]

That's not news.

Sting's always had an affinity for long, thick, black wood.


Unless his bat was aluminum, but, it's not as funny that way.

[Hyde Hill]

Another decent to good Impact that makes 2 in a row. Too bad there is no chance in hell the rating will be good given the post mania raw and shawn's farewell.

[Moe Hunter]

Theres a storyline here, what was Orlando doing up in Sting's rafters huh? OMG SUDDENLY THE HEEL TURN MAKES SENSE! STINGER'S SWINGING HIS BAT FOR THE OTHER TEAM!

Props. This is the best post I've seen you make :D Do you write have a dynasty on the boards? If you put these sorts of connections in place on a larger scale, that's the kind of thing I enjoy reading.

[Franchise22]

just read creed is gone from tna. too bad, as i liked him and lethal.

[SaySo]

Last night ratings:

Raw 3.7

Impact 0.6

[Linsolv]

Um. Yeah. That's pretty much expected, tbh. I mean, who's going to miss HBK's (probably) last Raw??

[justtxyank]

Man.

0.6?

The audience has been cut in half.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Um. Yeah. That's pretty much expected, tbh. I mean, who's going to miss HBK's (probably) last Raw??

Truth. TNA choose a horrible time to start their fight on monday night. Why is gods name did you choose Wrestlemania?

unless their banking on taking the hit before hand so if/when ratings increase, even if it's only back to a 1.0 they can say they went up.

Ah well hell with it, if this company is going to die I'll at least enjoy it while its here.

[pate]

It's a shame that this was the best Impact in quite a while, but it gets the lowest rating.

[jesterx7769]

lol

[lazorbeak]

Wow. It's pretty incredible that TNA went from its highest rating ever to its lowest rating in years in a span of 3 months. I almost wonder if it wouldn't be better to make some symbolic gesture like firing Russo just so the IWC is willing to give it another chance. With the star power they have, only their seeming inability to deliver watchable programming is keeping them back.

[Slagaholic]

They've been watchable for a few weeks now, but that's after a 2 months of appallingly awful television and they're turning the corner at the same time the biggest Wrestling event in the world happens. Just a potpourri of awfulness.

If they keep pulling sub-.8s when they move to 8pm they may be best set to just admit failure and move back to Thursdays.

[Hyde Hill]

Truth. TNA choose a horrible time to start their fight on monday night. Why is gods name did you choose Wrestlemania?

unless their banking on taking the hit before hand so if/when ratings increase, even if it's only back to a 1.0 they can say they went up.

Ah well hell with it, if this company is going to die I'll at least enjoy it while its here.

They won't die for a long time yet, 3 year deal with Spike and a flat rate for the ratings, they might be moved back to Thursdays. Reasoning behind Mania is because the so called war at this moment is mainly to increase brand awareness among wrestling fans and Mania is the period most tune in.

[Hyde Hill]

They've been watchable for a few weeks now, but that's after a 2 months of appallingly awful television and they're turning the corner at the same time the biggest Wrestling event in the world happens. Just a potpourri of awfulness.

If they keep pulling sub-.8s when they move to 8pm they may be best set to just admit failure and move back to Thursdays.

Yep that has been their main failure losing the 1.4 audience after the Jan 4th show with very poor booking.

[Daffanka]

It's because Hogan wasn't on the show.

These new guys can't draw brother!

[Bigpapa42]

I'm guessing they will write off the 0.6 rating as due to the post-WM Raw with HBK's goodbye. There is some validity to that. But they also need to take a long hard look at the booking. Time for them to be honest about that and change up what isn't.

[TracyBrooksFan]

i notice with Impact's rating when the show is live its close to 1.0 but when it taped it goes down

[PeterHilton]

They've been watchable for a few weeks now, but that's after a 2 months of appallingly awful television and they're turning the corner at the same time the biggest Wrestling event in the world happens. Just a potpourri of awfulness.

If they keep pulling sub-.8s when they move to 8pm they may be best set to just admit failure and move back to Thursdays.

More than watchable. Last night's episode was really good and the few weeks before that were definitely above average

But like you said..really bad timing.

I'm guessing they will write off the 0.6 rating as due to the post-WM Raw with HBK's goodbye. There is some validity to that. But they also need to take a long hard look at the booking. Time for them to be honest about that and change up what isn't.

The booking was really bad in the months before..but other than a few nitpicky things, last night's show was well booked.

i notice with Impact's rating when the show is live its close to 1.0 but when it taped it goes down

Ummm..you'd be off. It raises slightly when it's live, but it hasn't been "close to 1.0" in a month.

[Bigpapa42]

The booking was really bad in the months before..but other than a few nitpicky things, last night's show was well booked.

Last night was a step up. Things seemed less frenetic, slightly more subdued. That works better, in my opinion.

Some of the damage can't be undone, but so long as they dont' flip out about the 0.6 and do something stupid - like 60 minutes worth of Hogan next week - then they could move forward from this point.

[TracyBrooksFan]

More than watchable. Last night's episode was really good and the few weeks before that were definitely above average

But like you said..really bad timing.



The booking was really bad in the months before..but other than a few nitpicky things, last night's show was well booked.



Ummm..you'd be off. It raises slightly when it's live, but it hasn't been "close to 1.0" in a month.
so a 0.9 not close to 1.0

what i mean is it up when live and down when taped

[PeterHilton]

so a 0.9 not close to 1.0

what i mean is it up when live and down when taped

It wasn't a 0.9. It was a 0.86.

Rounding up is for people who don't understand TV ratings.

(so no, even if it were a 0.9 it wouldn't be close to a 1.0)

[TracyBrooksFan]

It wasn't a 0.9. It was a 0.86.

Rounding up is for people who don't understand TV ratings.

(so no, even if it were a 0.9 it wouldn't be close to a 1.0)

damn it was still close but that not what im saying it goes up when LIVE and down when TAPED

[PeterHilton]

damn it was still close but that not what im saying it goes up when LIVE and down when TAPED

I understand your point, but you responded to my post by saying "so 0.9 is not close to a 1.0"

And again..it wasn't a 0.9. And again..it wasn't close.

The difference between a 0.86 and 1.0 is several tens of thousands of viewers. Those 0.1's mean something in TV terms.

[crownsy]

I'm guessing they will write off the 0.6 rating as due to the post-WM Raw with HBK's goodbye. There is some validity to that. But they also need to take a long hard look at the booking. Time for them to be honest about that and change up what isn't.

I'll give them that, but there's only so many excuses you can make for poor ratings week after week.

Every week they roll out something WWE themed as the excuse, be it WM push, a big guest host, or now Post WM push.

But at the end of the day, TNA is competing against WWE. Is it really a valid excuse for poor ratings to pretty much go:

"well, of course. They had a better show this week than us, duh."

In response to your rivals efforts?

At what point will that stop being an excuse? you need to be concerned with picking up ratings on them, a bit at a time of course, year round. not throwing in the towel and acting like a second class product every time the other company has a strong show planned.

News flash to dixie. WWE is always going to be able to bring something to the table that it's core base likes. TNA can't continue to wait passively for the WWE to have a weak programing stretch and hope viewers get bored. That 3.5 or so that always watches raw hasen't gotten bored enough to tune out in the last two years, which were somewhat flat for raw, why would they turn out now that raw is somewhat watchable again?

And, regardless, isn't Hogan, dixie and EB's whole push that the WWE product is stale and fans want a change? If that's so, why on earth is it an acceptable excuse to point to the fact that it's a "special time" for the WWE every time they get thier butts whipped?

It's an ok excuse for say, next monday with the NCAA's on. TNA can't directly compete with that, and both shows will suffer.

But its alarming to me that TNA doesn't see the utter laughably of writing off low ratings by saying it's expected because the other companies product is better than yours for the week.

IF you really believe that is an acceptable excuse TNA, you've already lost any momentum you have on Monday nights, and should have stuck to Thursday, where you had a nice niche carved out.

[crownsy]

It's a shame that this was the best Impact in quite a while, but it gets the lowest rating.


Another problem, as a guy who DVR's TNA and watches Raw live while flipping to spike during commercials.

Why, for the love of god, is TNA on a commercial break nearly every time WWE is?

I know that sounds nit picky, but hear me out. You are the underdog TNA. People are going to tune into you during WWE's breaks.

IF I were the TNA production crew, i would make every effort so that when WWE went to commercial break, TNA has action or a promo on. Hell, if you had talented enough staff, which they may, Id go one further and try to time it so everytime WWE went to commercial, i had a promo running for what my main event was.

It just makes sense, i kid you not, i flipped to impact....10 times during raw's breaks over the last two weeks. 8-9 times they were also in commercials. Simply staggering their breaks by 3-4 minutes would have given a casual viewer tuning over to see what TNA was about some in ring action to watch.

heck, MAbey if it's a good match, you snag that viewer away from the WWE for the 15 minutes they want to devote to it over raw's next midcard/diva match.

Then mabey that person goes "you know what, that was alright...much better than x vs y on raw...TNA ain't half bad..."

It's little things like that which need to be done to compete with the WWE.

[PeterHilton]

Another problem, as a guy who DVR's TNA and watches Raw live while flipping to spike during commercials.

Why, for the love of god, is TNA on a commercial break nearly every time WWE is?



The number, length, and timing of commercial breaks is usually set up by the network.

[TommyDreamerFan]

The number, length, and timing of commercial breaks is usually set up by the network.

Hey lets just be happy they're getting out of the habit of putting the breaks during the mainevent.

[Slagaholic]

Another problem, as a guy who DVR's TNA and watches Raw live while flipping to spike during commercials.

Why, for the love of god, is TNA on a commercial break nearly every time WWE is?

Because you already have DVR, the networks have to do something to justify the money they charge for ads.

[PeterHilton]

Hey lets just be happy they're getting out of the habit of putting the breaks during the mainevent.

That's actually a bad sign. Networks schedule commercial breaks during the last 10-15 minutes of a TV show only if they know you will stay tuned in.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep TNA would have to make a deal with Spike where Spike somehow makes it that the commercials don't overlap. TNA sells the television rights to spike TNA does not get paid or has control over the ads etc.

[jesterx7769]

Seems pretty obvious what is happening and will probably continue to happen. They got two nice boosts since the new year so the potential for viewers is there. However those people were not entertained enough to keep watching (insert reason here) and the people that were watching that were such TNA loyalists turned out not be loyalists and prefer RAW to Impact. I didnt think the ratings would drop this low, that is really, really embarrasing and the sad part is, why would all of a sudden 1.2 people watch? Just b/c HBK isn't there? Please. lowest ratings in 5 years FIVE YEARS PEOPLE I think it shows even if the Monday Night "Wars" created awareness no one cares to watch, maybe if they move back to Thursday in a month or so those people that created awareness would watch on Thursday.

[crownsy]

The number, length, and timing of commercial breaks is usually set up by the network.

Fine, then put it on spike.

I understand that every program takes a set number of breaks, ect. but those are normally scheduled by the network. they don't have to be at the same exact time.

Otherwise, every network would be on commercial the same time every time, when really they try to stagger there breaks to catch people flipping around during other networks breaks.

That's my concern, why on earth aren't they scheduling those breaks at other times then EXACTLY when usa does? remember, it's two freaking minutes. You can simply stagger your commercial block 3-5 minutes before/after USA's, similar to what every other network does to try to catch people flipping around.

That's just poor programing, IMO. and it can't be excused by saying "oh, it's spike's doing."

TNA and Spike have a symbiotic relationship. It's in spikes best interests that TNA do well, and vice versa.

Little touches like making sure when people flip from USA to spike they get something to possibly hold there interest is what will establish a viewership for TNA on mondays.

But hey, if Spike/TNA wants to keep doing things in such a amateurish way, they will continue to struggle.

Add this to a long list of things spike/tna are doing wrong, such as never promoting their main event till the show starts, and people have already made up their mind what show to watch.

The difference between TNA and WWE, made all the more glaring by being on at the same time, is experience and production values. When your competing against an established company, you can't be making foolish mistakes like lack of promotion on your M/E, losing opportunity every hour to show WWE fans trying to check out your product action, ect, ect.

[CQI13]

Not sure how many networks "stagger" the commercials. A lot of times when flipping at my parent's house, there's absolutely NOTHING on. Same goes with radio stations.

[crownsy]

I've never once had a problem finding a network that isn't in commercial when the show i'm watching goes to ads.

With over 200 networks on Comcast's basic package at this point, it's nearly imposable to NOT find something non- ad to watch during commercials.

The point remains, why on earth would you not set off your commercials by a minute or two if your spike?

Keep in mind, i prefaced this all by admitting it's nitpicky to expound on commercials. but when your trying to make headway against an established show's ratings, It's little things like that which make headway. That's all i was pointing out.

[CQI13]

May very well be true...but I refuse to pay for television. I'm certainly not the demo they're after.

[PeterHilton]

Keep in mind, i prefaced this all by admitting it's nitpicky to expound on commercials. but when your trying to make headway against an established show's ratings, It's little things like that which make headway. That's all i was pointing out.

You're making a decent point, but like you said, it's nitpicky:

Here are the quarter hour breakdowns


TNA Impact did a .56 rating on Monday (off hours of .53 and .60). The show's 18-34 viewers were down a stunning 53.5% from last week while total viewers were down 30%. Here are more quarter hour details [Credit to PWTorch]:

* The show opened with a .50 quarter hour.

* The third quarter hour drew a show-low .43 for The Pope talking, Samoa Joe, and Orlando Jordan.

* The show's highest quarter hour was the sixth which drew a .64 for the end of AJ Styles vs. Jeff Jarrett and Jay Lethal vs. Beer Money.

* The seventh quarter hour did a .53 rating (featured a commercial, Hernandez update, and The Pope vs. Desmond Wolfe).

* The final quarter hour did a .58 (featured Kurt Angle/Mr. Anderson segments).

* The overrun did a .63. The overrun featured the end of the Jeff Hardy & RVD vs. Wolfpack Cage match

Average audience of 813,000 viewers

Too bad about the Pope..but the argument that Raw won so handily because of HBK's retirement seems wrong since the rating for TNA actually went up while Shawn was doing his farewell address.

[Slagaholic]

I think that was more Orlando Jordan's fault than Pope's.

[PeterHilton]

I think that was more Orlando Jordan's fault than Pope's.

It would be hard to prove that, and a little unfair since Pope's segment was noticeably longer. Love the Pope. Hope this doesn't reflect negatively on him (IIRC Raw had Christian/Dibiase during that quarter hour so it's hard to explain)

[CQI13]

Why the insistence on quarter hour ratings? Back in 98 at one point certain "average" wrestlers were outperforming (by that metric) a lot of the big names. In fact, Mike Graham even had a quote on Benoit leaving that went along the lines of "Good. He didn't draw a dime." -- based on individual quarter hour ratings for the wrestlers.

[PeterHilton]

Why the insistence on quarter hour ratings? Back in 98 at one point certain "average" wrestlers were outperforming (by that metric) a lot of the big names. In fact, Mike Graham even had a quote on Benoit leaving that went along the lines of "Good. He didn't draw a dime." -- based on individual quarter hour ratings for the wrestlers.

It's how the industry loks at TV numbers. Even if you don't agree (and I don't think they're entirely 100% reliable) it's something you can't ignore entirely

Also...if the quarter hours showed Benoit wasn't a draw, I'm not exactly sure that's proof they're 'wrong' per se. Benoit as a draw was very..meh.

[CQI13]

I remember looking at some site a while ago, where they had a record of these things. They didn't have Benoit as a draw (or non-draw). But in that month they had up there (February 98), Bryan Adams had the highest average quarter hour on Nitro. Bagwell was up there. And WWE had a strong showing by Tom Brandi (what the hell was he doing in February 98?).

Back on the Benoit thing (and I wish I could see these numbers), those who jumped weren't drawing fans in (according to the quarter hour numbers). Most would say they were much more entertaining than Hogan, Savage, and Nash. Would never know judging by the numbers.

[PeterHilton]

Back on the Benoit thing (and I wish I could see these numbers), those who jumped weren't drawing fans in (according to the quarter hour numbers). Most would say they were much more entertaining than Hogan, Savage, and Nash. Would never know judging by the numbers.

Well no..obviously the overall product is more important than the individual quarter hour rating and who was on screen at that time.

If the show sucsk, all the quarters will be low regardless of who's on screen..but if that's how networks look at that show...

[CQI13]

I meant most "fans" probably considered the luchadores more entertaining that what the Main Event scene of WCW was offering at the time, but the "ratings" didn't support that. I have my doubts as to how accurate the ratings system is, but whatever.

[liontamer]

.... However those people were not entertained enough to keep watching (insert reason here) and the people that were watching that were such TNA loyalists turned out not be loyalists and prefer RAW to Impact.

I will agree with the first part of this sentence as viewership has obviously declined. I disagree with the last part because I haven't seen an increase in Raw's ratings above what is expected around Wrestlemania time. It looks more to me like people that were watching TNA aren't watching either. If Raw suddenly starts getting record ratings then sure, they switched (ps, wasn't last week Raw's worst rating in years?)

Wondering if we have any UK posters here. Was trying to find a year todate report on each show (still looking) and saw in the comments a few people were claiming that TNA is killing raw in the UK for some reason and cutting into their merch sales. wondering if anyone can verify that.

[jesterx7769]

RAW's ratings don't have to go up, your logic is incorrect.

People would watch RAW on Monday...it gets a 3.7 (or w/e)

then people would watch Impact on Thursday...it gets a 1.0 (or w/e)

Now that they are on at the same time..

RAW gets a 3.7 on Monday (or w/e, but their about the same)

Impact gets a .7 on Monday(lets average so as to not be harsh)

RAW= Same amount

Impact= Less now that people have to choose

so while I see what you were trying to see your logic is wrong, people were watching RAW before so their ratings should not go up if people don't want Impact.

[lazorbeak]

I remember looking at some site a while ago, where they had a record of these things. They didn't have Benoit as a draw (or non-draw). But in that month they had up there (February 98), Bryan Adams had the highest average quarter hour on Nitro. Bagwell was up there. And WWE had a strong showing by Tom Brandi (what the hell was he doing in February 98?).

Back on the Benoit thing (and I wish I could see these numbers), those who jumped weren't drawing fans in (according to the quarter hour numbers). Most would say they were much more entertaining than Hogan, Savage, and Nash. Would never know judging by the numbers.

Having recently watched Raw 1998, I can assure you the high ratings on Tom Brandi's segments probably had a lot more to do with Rena Mero than the former Patriot.

But yeah, it's true, Chris Benoit was never really much of a draw. Even without the mullet and with neck muscles that made him look like an early 90's comic book character, he was a 5'10 Canadian guy who never looked like the type of guy casual fans want to see.

[CQI13]

I'm reading that to mean that some people don't want WWE (ratings remain close to same), but some people are turning away from TNA (ratings down). Maybe the novelty of Hogan wore off.

[liontamer]

I think we may be arguing 2 different things based on my reading of your inital statement. I thought you were inferring by 'TNA loyalists' that they watched only TNA and that they have now switched to Raw, which I don't see any proof of yet.

[Hyde Hill]

Too bad we don't get the minute by minutes as that might slightly give a clearer indication who is offputting. Its harder to claim draw though as a number going down means people who are watching not wanting to see something and switching away, while people that get added either come back after the offputting stuff or come from somewhere else and are not turned off by what they see. Only if something is heavily promoted beforehand and during the show can one somewhat asses draw quality so to speak. Its a science in and of itself hehe.

And like PeterHilton said in this day and age its more overall product quality then specific segments that really matter, only if during a minute by minute there is a nasty drop can one say that a certain performer should not be featured. These last two Impacts have actually been good but given the woeful Impacts before these two combined with the go home and post mania show low ratings where to be expected.

Plus it is somewhat debatable how accurate Nielson actually is, for the sample size they use I read somewhere that if 17 people switch its a 0.2 change in the ratings. They need to increase their sample size and preferably also data gathering methods imho especially in this day with multiple televisions per home and television via the net not to mention DVR.

On the UK from all the data I have seen posted TNA is indeed much closer to WWE in popularity, Smackdown and TNA generally trade no1 and RAW is third but that can be attributed to the bad time slot. Some people say that its also because WWE is on a channel you have to pay for on a subscription basis but people that can watch Sky is only slightly lower then those that can watch Bravo so that is not a big factor. Even taking that slot difference into account TNA is a lot closer in viewership in the UK then in the USA and sometimes even beats them, the same can apparently be said in other markets for instance India also shows TNA having similar or better numbers reportedly.

The only real difference is that TNA ppv's have always been free since they started in the UK but that is/was also true for many WWE ppv's. WWE has been just as dominant in the UK as the US for around the same time so that isn't really a factor so apart from the ppv's it could be something cultural or Bravo is a better advertiser and channel then Spike in comparison to the other channels and each-other. Any UK viewers out there have other theories?

Take into account that this is from what I have read on 411mania and PWI and other available sources on the non wrestling aspects.

[Stennick]

UK t.v ratings are tough because like you said you have to pay a suscription fee for some of WWE's programming as well as of putting time slots, etc.

I have no doubt that the WWE could fill a 40,000 seat stadium for a pay per view in the UK, TNA I would find it hard to believe could do 10,000. Again I don't live in the UK but I think saying their on par popularity wise is inaccurate. Their ratings may be similar but in the case of the UK and the "second hand" programming and the bad time slots as well as the WWE being on a pay channel on top of TNA ppv's being free all of those things would severely distort it. The only way to judge over seas pop is by live attendance figures and Vince would murder TNA in that stat.

[Hyde Hill]

Sky ,the WWE's channel, is in only 5 percent less homes or so then Bravo reportedly, so pretty much everyone carries it and only RAW is in a bad slot as it is live. TNA house show recently did 8k attendance. Also many of the WWE ppv's where or still are free as long as you have that channel. Just saying that the closeness of the viewer numbers cannot be explained by those factors alone. If the free ppv's are a big factor I would start doing those in the US asap as TNA won't loose a lot of money since their buys aren't that high, although not as low as sometimes reported.

They can then get money off of selling the rights fees to the Sunday night specials and once the fanbase has grown and people know the quality of those shows they can move them back to ppv. Don't know the length of TNA's deals with the ppv providers though as can't seem to find that info. Trying to get answers from Bisch on that idea and the length hehe.

[crownsy]

I'm reading that to mean that some people don't want WWE (ratings remain close to same), but some people are turning away from TNA (ratings down). Maybe the novelty of Hogan wore off.

Right, but that means that half TNA's audience is not up for watching them on a monday.

Ergo, those viewers either:

A) watch WWE on Monday, and watched TNA on Thursdays in the past, and now they do not want to watch TNA on mondays

B) Aren't up for watching wrestling at all on a monday

Either is terrable news for tna.

[Hyde Hill]

Really hope TNA doesn't overreact due to the two low ratings and goes back to being legend and storyline heavy and jamming everything in that they can. The last two shows have had a good pace and angle/match ratio, not perfect yet but very good, so it would be a shame.

If people remember this happened more often with TNA in the past, they would have a couple of good shows with low ratings and then a crappy one with a higher one. I think this wasn't so much because of the content of the crappy one but because the two good ones got word of mouth going and got people interested in trying TNA again and then when they do watch they get the same stuff that turned them off resulting in a slide in the ratings again till the next couple of good shows in a row.

Plus contending with a move to Monday and pre and post mania shows. If and we know with TNA that is a big if they keep this quality of shows up they should be back in the 1.0+ in a couple of weeks. If they do keep this quality and they remain in the 0.6-0.8s then I wouldn't know.

[Tag01]

TNA had to expect this; wrestling is not as popular as it was. You're mostly catering to hardcore fans and kids, it is safe to assume TNA fans are also WWE fans, and when forced they're going choose the better product (WWE). None of that should be a surprise to TNA, and I hope that it doesn't make them abandon the monday night war experiment. Give it a few months.

[brashleyholland]

Sky ,the WWE's channel, is in only 5 percent less homes or so then Bravo reportedly, so pretty much everyone carries it and only RAW is in a bad slot as it is live. TNA house show recently did 8k attendance. Also many of the WWE ppv's where or still are free as long as you have that channel. Just saying that the closeness of the viewer numbers cannot be explained by those factors alone.

Couple of things...

- Sky is a TV provider, not a channel. Bravo (TNA's channel) is available on Sky and Virgin Media, the UK's other big subscription TV provider.

- WWE isn't on the regular Sky package, it's on Sky Sports. To get that, you not only have to have pay a monthly subscription for Sky, you have to pay an additional monthly subscription on top of that (which basically doubles your monthly payment for just four sports channels). You cannot just get the sports. Sky Sports is also available on Virgin Media, but is even more expensive.

- Bravo is available on the most basic packages on both platforms.

- Sky has about over nine million subscribers. Virgin Media has about three and a half to four million. Across both platforms, only about six million have Sky Sports. So realistically, WWE is only available to six million, whereas TNA is available to around 13 million. Also like you said, RAW starts at 3am on a Monday night, so if you have work or school, you're unlikely to watch the initial airing.


If the free ppv's are a big factor I would start doing those in the US asap as TNA won't loose a lot of money since their buys aren't that high, although not as low as sometimes reported.

They can then get money off of selling the rights fees to the Sunday night specials and once the fanbase has grown and people know the quality of those shows they can move them back to ppv.

The only reason that PPV's are 'free' in the UK is that we haven't really been conditioned to pay for our TV at all, at least not as long as folks in the states. We didn't get cable until the late-ish 90's, and 'pay TV' only really kicked off past the turn of the century. PPV simply doesn't sell in the UK. One reason is time, obviously. If you have work or school on Monday morning, you can't stay up until 4am and you're less likely to pay to see something that isn't live.

If TNA started putting shows on free TV in the states, they'd have a nightmare getting people to pay for them again in the future. You're assuming that they would get more viewers because the show would be free, but that would be more likely to work the opposite manner.

If you pay for a PPV, you're unlikely to turn off after the first hour even if it sucks. It doesn't even matter if you do, because you've already paid. TNA is struggling to get people to watch a 2 hr TV show...if the 'PPV's' are on TV, people will turn off if they suck. So not only wont they be getting PPV revenue, they'd have the potential to lose viewers. People will sit through three hours of 'meh' that they've paid for. They'll turn over after 1 hour of 'meh' on TV.

[Stennick]

Couple of things...

- Sky is a TV provider, not a channel. Bravo (TNA's channel) is available on Sky and Virgin Media, the UK's other big subscription TV provider.

- WWE isn't on the regular Sky package, it's on Sky Sports. To get that, you not only have to have pay a monthly subscription for Sky, you have to pay an additional monthly subscription on top of that (which basically doubles your monthly payment for just four sports channels). You cannot just get the sports. Sky Sports is also available on Virgin Media, but is even more expensive.

- Bravo is available on the most basic packages on both platforms.

- Sky has about over nine million subscribers. Virgin Media has about three and a half to four million. Across both platforms, only about six million have Sky Sports. So realistically, WWE is only available to six million, whereas TNA is available to around 13 million. Also like you said, RAW starts at 3am on a Monday night, so if you have work or school, you're unlikely to watch the initial airing.




The only reason that PPV's are 'free' in the UK is that we haven't really been conditioned to pay for our TV at all, at least not as long as folks in the states. We didn't get cable until the late-ish 90's, and 'pay TV' only really kicked off past the turn of the century. PPV simply doesn't sell in the UK. One reason is time, obviously. If you have work or school on Monday morning, you can't stay up until 4am and you're less likely to pay to see something that isn't live.

If TNA started putting shows on free TV in the states, they'd have a nightmare getting people to pay for them again in the future. You're assuming that they would get more viewers because the show would be free, but that would be more likely to work the opposite manner.

If you pay for a PPV, you're unlikely to turn off after the first hour even if it sucks. It doesn't even matter if you do, because you've already paid. TNA is struggling to get people to watch a 2 hr TV show...if the 'PPV's' are on TV, people will turn off if they suck. So not only wont they be getting PPV revenue, they'd have the potential to lose viewers. People will sit through three hours of 'meh' that they've paid for. They'll turn over after 1 hour of 'meh' on TV.

I agree with all of this television numbers can't be compared in the UK. I was trying to find attendance numbers for the WWE's UK DX Invasion House Show tour but I couldn't find any.

[Hyde Hill]

Thanks brash, seems I was misinformed about the coverage of homes that Bravo and Sky Sports get. Still if the difference maker isn't "free" ppv's then what is? And yeah I agree that doing free ppv's in the states is a double edged sword.

[Hyde Hill]

According to some sources in TNA and Viacom, yes I have them now as I have not been idle, Viacom is close to signing The Rock away from Disney for their movie division and they will be using TNA as a vehicle to promote his movies.

[Hive]

According to some sources in TNA and Viacom, yes I have them now as I have not been idle, Viacom is close to signing The Rock away from Disney for their movie division and they will be using TNA as a vehicle to promote his movies.

In other April 1st news, I have personally just bought both TNA and WWE. :p

[Remianen]

If TNA started putting shows on free TV in the states, they'd have a nightmare getting people to pay for them again in the future. You're assuming that they would get more viewers because the show would be free, but that would be more likely to work the opposite manner.

This is gospel. You have to really know the American audience and consumer to realize this. Unless you can ride the wave of a tech revolution (which is what TV and phone services did as well as broadband internet), people in the US aren't likely to start paying for something that was previously free.

Granted, all I've known all my life is pay TV, coming from an early adopter family. I remember having WHT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wometco_Home_Theater) in the house when I was, jeez, 5? I think the first "racy" film I saw was 'Looking for Mr Goodbar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_for_Mr._Goodbar_%28film%29)' when I was like six or seven. I was a launch subscriber to Quantum Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Link), so paying for online services wasn't foreign to me. I had a big, bulky, briefcase cell (or 'mobile' as it was called then) phone when I was 14 or 15 (granted, it was for illicit purposes, but I had it).

I say all that to perhaps illustrate that the number of people who are willing to try something "new" that had been free (or almost free) previously, or just new in general, is really, really small. It takes time (years) to change perception to make people more open to these things. TNA switches their supposed pay per views to free and it'll be 2020 before they can expect to see revenue from them again. You also lose the war of perception, seeming "cheap" in comparison to the 'E. That's a powerful motivator here in the States. Many people have things simply because not having them leads to them being perceived a certain way (a particular cellphone model named after a fruit comes to mind). How's the saying go? Why buy the cow.....

According to some sources in TNA and Viacom, yes I have them now as I have not been idle, Viacom is close to signing The Rock away from Disney for their movie division and they will be using TNA as a vehicle to promote his movies.

:rolleyes:

[LoganRodzen]

Just had to throw this out there to see what people were thinking of it...

AM RAW getting a 0.7 rating over the 0.6 Impact got on Monday is (may I say it?) extremely embarrassing. I don't care that HBK retired and that's "why the rating is so low". If it was me and I was playing TEW and got beat by a 'C-Show' that AM RAW pretty much is... I would be changing to an unopposed time slot. Why didn't they think a live Thursday show would benefit them better than head-to-head on Mondays?

[Nedew]

You also lose the war of perception, seeming "cheap" in comparison to the 'E. That's a powerful motivator here in the States.

Talk about ungrateful :p

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah I knew it was an easy one but I had to try, still good excuse for anyone that wants to bring him in using TEW lol. Also the same source that claimed the nasties is now claiming Bubba is gone. Whoot.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Yeah I knew it was an easy one but I had to try, still good excuse for anyone that wants to bring him in using TEW lol. Also the same source that claimed the nasties is now claiming Bubba is gone. Whoot.

...This annoys me. Okay I hated Bubba on there as much as the rest of you, but if they wasted the time bringing him in they should of done something with him before firing. And if you were going to fire this guy, WHY WOULDNT YOU DO IT WAY BACK TO KEEP AWESOME KONG?! GOD DAMN!

[jesterx7769]

While not to dump on them completley, I think we all already know the people in charge don't know what they're doing and did not have any solid plans. Which, may work in the long run, but with all the inconsistently I think anyone who thinks Hogan/EB came on January 4th with a 3/4/6 month scripted plan is fooling themselves.

Also, they don't really have as much as experience or are as smart as people give them credit, they have their reps and power b/c modern wrestling is only 20 years old.

Hogan's booking/running a company's expereince...

Hogan: So we have a title match, it should be great and blow the PPV away!...I should win.

Vince: Great Idea!

That is the extent of Hogan's booking and running a promotion experience.

EB's...

EB: Man we are doing pretty good storyline wise but... lets steal this nWo thing from Japan, no one will know it was from Japan and since we have Hogan

Hogan: I should win!

EB: Not now!, anyways, since we have him people will love the nWo angle and I will be treated like a booking God! Oh the company went under? Well thats not my fault. Now I'm on an screen personality for the people who bought us.

That is EB's experience, remember he was an announcer for a long time then kinda got promoted, he isn't one of these guys that created and ran a promotion himself. Sure he did some good for WCW (I believe I read he was credited internally for WCW turning a profit) but WCW was arguably the biggest promotion at the time (ratings wise) so...wouldn't it be more surprising if he didnt do well there?

Basically these guys are not your wrestling God's as everyone thought/ thinks. They are not Scot D'Amore, Jim Crocket, Paul Heyman, or even Cornette who has ran his own promotion. As I started this post, this isn't my "Hogan and EB will NEVER do anything good" its just my, I'm not surprised by anything when you look at their experience and really no one else should be surprised either.

[Remianen]

...This annoys me. Okay I hated Bubba on there as much as the rest of you, but if they wasted the time bringing him in they should of done something with him before firing. And if you were going to fire this guy, WHY WOULDNT YOU DO IT WAY BACK TO KEEP AWESOME KONG?! GOD DAMN!

Hmm? Did I just read TommyDreamerTNAFan#1 actually CRITICIZE the promotion?

UR A H8R, SIR! :mad:

Makes perfect sense though, don't it? I mean, I understand the idea of what Bubba did (it's his job, without shock tactics like that, he'd be a poor man's Howard Stern. Oh wait....) and the fact that violence in the workplace cannot be tolerated (hehehehehe), but if they had cut Bubba loose then, they would've scored some MAJOR PR points (as well as kept Kong).

[CQI13]

Because Heyman was so successful with money (also part of running a promotion).

[TommyDreamerFan]

Hmm? Did I just read TommyDreamerTNAFan#1 actually CRITICIZE the promotion?

UR A H8R, SIR! :mad:

Makes perfect sense though, don't it? I mean, I understand the idea of what Bubba did (it's his job, without shock tactics like that, he'd be a poor man's Howard Stern. Oh wait....) and the fact that violence in the workplace cannot be tolerated (hehehehehe), but if they had cut Bubba loose then, they would've scored some MAJOR PR points (as well as kept Kong).

I know! I know! I hate myself! :( I'm going to go eat bowls of ice cream and watch ROH tapes from 5 years ago! WAAAAA!!!! I'M A MONSTER!


:rolleyes: lol

[Remianen]

Because Heyman was so successful with money (also part of running a promotion).

But to be fair, TNA has the financial staff in place to counter Heyman. Besides, Heyman would probably get more out of the people they already have contracted than anyone else. He wouldn't have money issues with TNA (similar to how he didn't have money issues with the 'E. It was creative differences that led to his departure, wasn't it?). Heyman would be running the onscreen/creative product. The money wouldn't (and shouldn't) be his area of influence.

There's a vast difference between being CEO and being CHAIRMAN & CEO. Heyman was the former in WWE (creatively, at least for Smackdown) and the latter in ECW (Tod Gordon was a figurehead, for all intents and purposes). I point to Carly Fiorina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_fiorina) (as much as I love her) as an example of what giving a creative person carte blanche can do to an organization (in ANY industry).

[Hyde Hill]

...This annoys me. Okay I hated Bubba on there as much as the rest of you, but if they wasted the time bringing him in they should of done something with him before firing. And if you were going to fire this guy, WHY WOULDNT YOU DO IT WAY BACK TO KEEP AWESOME KONG?! GOD DAMN!

Lol seems I got you guys with the double dupe, first an obvious one and then an innocuous one its still April the 1st mates hehe.:D Still Fire Bubba!

[TheOmniWarrior]

Did TNA do a replay tonight? Im in California so if they did it didnt start here yet

[Moe Hunter]

That was simply an awesome wrestling show. Booking that made sense, a great segment with Pope, Anderson cut a good promo (seems like maybe he's finally getting his feet under him in TNA), Lethal's hilarious as always...

It wasn't rushed - even the short matches had more time than other short matches I've seen from them, and they concluded nicely. Hell, even Jarrett had a good match that I really enjoyed.


Only bad parts:
*OJ's segment was out of place. If he had cut a promo or done *anything* wrestling related, it might have been okay.
*RVD and Hardy suck at promos. Especially Hardy. "We're gonna have a steel cage MATCH!" Seriously? How long has this guy been a wrestler and watched wrestling, and he can't even put emphasis on the right words?
*Abyss and Jarrett closing the show. That was a throwaway promo that should have happened in the middle of the show.

Oh, by the way - was I the only one *blown away* by how good Hogan's Macho Man impersonation was? I think he's actually better at it than Lethal.

If this had been the 1/4 show instead of the cluster we got, I think TNA's ratings would be in much better shape.

[MattitudeV2]

Did TNA do a replay tonight? Im in California so if they did it didnt start here yet

No, They had Rob Zombie's Halloween on and a Chuck Lidell bio.

[fatallylost]

Did TNA do a replay tonight? Im in California so if they did it didnt start here yet

I'm not sure of you cable/satellite situation. Personally, I have Time Warner, and I watch Raw on HD at 6, and TNA comes on at 9, so I can watch/record either of them.

Same way I always got to see Raw and Nitro back in the day.

[Stennick]

While not to dump on them completley, I think we all already know the people in charge don't know what they're doing and did not have any solid plans. Which, may work in the long run, but with all the inconsistently I think anyone who thinks Hogan/EB came on January 4th with a 3/4/6 month scripted plan is fooling themselves.

Also, they don't really have as much as experience or are as smart as people give them credit, they have their reps and power b/c modern wrestling is only 20 years old.

Hogan's booking/running a company's expereince...

Hogan: So we have a title match, it should be great and blow the PPV away!...I should win.

Vince: Great Idea!

That is the extent of Hogan's booking and running a promotion experience.

EB's...

EB: Man we are doing pretty good storyline wise but... lets steal this nWo thing from Japan, no one will know it was from Japan and since we have Hogan

Hogan: I should win!

EB: Not now!, anyways, since we have him people will love the nWo angle and I will be treated like a booking God! Oh the company went under? Well thats not my fault. Now I'm on an screen personality for the people who bought us.

That is EB's experience, remember he was an announcer for a long time then kinda got promoted, he isn't one of these guys that created and ran a promotion himself. Sure he did some good for WCW (I believe I read he was credited internally for WCW turning a profit) but WCW was arguably the biggest promotion at the time (ratings wise) so...wouldn't it be more surprising if he didnt do well there?

Basically these guys are not your wrestling God's as everyone thought/ thinks. They are not Scot D'Amore, Jim Crocket, Paul Heyman, or even Cornette who has ran his own promotion. As I started this post, this isn't my "Hogan and EB will NEVER do anything good" its just my, I'm not surprised by anything when you look at their experience and really no one else should be surprised either.

I disagree with EB being a one trick pony. Eric did exactly what Vince did he looked at ECW and took things from it. Eric took the high impact, high octane cruiserweight/lucha wrestling Vince took harcore wrestling (toned down), edgy characters/storylines, etc. For the record he turned a profit in 1994 before there was even such a thing as "winning the ratings" or before he was even close to being the biggest promotion in the world popularity wise.

Eric made them a profit so the argument that Eric took Ted's money is false. Eric was making a profit before he brought in Hogan. Then he brought in Macho, Hogan, etc. and was making an even bigger profit which is exactly what you'd want to see from a company aspect. Make us money on a small level, we'll then give you money to up your level and we expect you to make more money and he did that.

He brought WCW from Saturday night evening slot far far away from anything Vince was doing to running right at him in Monday nights. Vince had a two year head start in monday night wrestling and Eric's first night head to head he either beat Vince or came close to it.

Not only that he did smart things like stagger his commercial breaks differently than Vince's so when RAW was on commerical Eric was in the middle of a match or an angle or something of that nature. He KNEW Vince was on commercial because he'd comment on it.

Eric did a TON to revolutionize the business in 1995/96 he created the multiple PPV months, Thunder was before Smackdown so he created the "two A Shows" theory.

He gave guys like Sullivan and Taylor the book for the under card while he booked the main event. For the first three years doing this it worked. It gave us undercard feuds for guys like Jericho, Guerrero, etc. it gave us awesome crusierweight action as well as gave Eric the chance to run the hottest angle in pro wrestling history. Was it perfect? Of course not it was highly flawed and when it came time to give it up the people Eric was working with didn't want to .

Eric made money for a company that had never made money in its entire existence before he was in charge. He created the hottest angle in the history of pro wrestling, ARGUABLLY the most famous stable in pro wrestling history, as well as being the only man to beat Vince McMahon in any real victory in pro wrestling.

Eric did a lot of things right. Did he take some things from other places? He sure did but a worker by the name of Ric Flair borrowed a few things, Vince borrowed a few things. Wrestling like any other form of enteraintment takes things and either makes them better or worsens them.

What allowed Eric to do a lot of the things he did was the exact same thing that did him in. He was able to beat Vince by having guys like Hogan, Hall, Nash, etc. He was able to get them by giving them very expensive contracts that on top of that gave them creative control.

I'm not saying I enjoy what Eric's doing today or that he's a god in pro wrestling but you can't discredit everything he did by saying it was JUST the nWo he was winning in the ratings before Hall and Nash showed up.

[Tag01]

But to be fair, TNA has the financial staff in place to counter Heyman. Besides, Heyman would probably get more out of the people they already have contracted than anyone else. He wouldn't have money issues with TNA (similar to how he didn't have money issues with the 'E. It was creative differences that led to his departure, wasn't it?). Heyman would be running the onscreen/creative product. The money wouldn't (and shouldn't) be his area of influence.

There's a vast difference between being CEO and being CHAIRMAN & CEO. Heyman was the former in WWE (creatively, at least for Smackdown) and the latter in ECW (Tod Gordon was a figurehead, for all intents and purposes). I point to Carly Fiorina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_fiorina) (as much as I love her) as an example of what giving a creative person carte blanche can do to an organization (in ANY industry).

You're Carlyfornia dreamin', are you?

[Hyde Hill]

Dude it was quite clear that in wrestling terms in this example chairmen would equate to headbooker/writer for a show which Heyman was for Smackdown during a critically acclaimed period. Heyman is a very good booker but a crappy owner. In TNA he wouldn't need to handle the owner stuff as Dixie and co do that and Bischoff could help with the non directly wrestling related stuff. Dixie + Bisch + Heyman and Hogan as a figurehead could work very well.

[MattitudeV2]

Dude it was quite clear that in wrestling terms in this example chairmen would equate to headbooker/writer for a show which Heyman was for Smackdown during a critically acclaimed period. Heyman is a very good booker but a crappy owner. In TNA he wouldn't need to handle the owner stuff as Dixie and co do that and Bischoff could help with the non directly wrestling related stuff. Dixie + Bisch + Heyman and Hogan as a figurehead could work very well.

Well lets see problems in this?

Heyman hates Bischoff and Hogan's guts.

Dixie is:confused:

Bischoff and Hogan don't even know what direction they wan't to go with this company.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Well lets see problems in this?

Heyman hates Bischoff and Hogan's guts.

Dixie is:confused:

Bischoff and Hogan don't even know what direction they wan't to go with this company.

Your kidding right? They're clearly building towards Bischoff Faction versus Hogan Faction

Hate may be a strong word for Heyman's part. I think Bischoff dislikes Heyman more then Heyman dislikes Bischoff THESE DAYS...

[Hyde Hill]

I think Bischoff dislikes the claim Heyman makes about stealing storylines and talent and Heyman resents the fact that Bisch won't own up to it. Them hating each other is a whole other level though. I have asked on the facebook what Bisch's current feelings towards Heyman are after having worked with him in the E but no answer yet. Which is probably a good thing because if he really dislikes him he probably would have said so as he has bashed some he dislikes on facebook so far. HTM, Juve and Vampiro as examples.

On the direction, I hope they know the direction and we are just not seeing it yet or they are adjusting their direction according to some of the results. Hello and goodbye Nasties lolz.

Edit: If Bisch and Russo can work together again why not Bisch and Heyman?

[TommyDreamerFan]

from John Marzatelli:

Much ado has been made by those within TNA to make sure fans DVR
Impact on Monday nights if they plan on watching something else (like
Monday Night Raw) as to ensure they don’t miss out on the latest
developments in the soap opera that TNA storylines have become.
The March 8th DVR ratings have now been revealed and contain a few surprises…
The 3/8 edition of Impact featuring the in ring returns of Hulk Hogan
and Ric Flair had 68,000 homes choose to DVR Impact, which equals out
to a 7 % increase in the rating for that night, thus moving from a
0.98 to a 1.05
Meanwhile Raw that night had 188,000 homes DVR Raw which brings the
final rating up from 3.38 to 3.57. The interesting note here is the
comparison to the week before and normal numbers who DVR Raw, As on
March 1st unopposed, Raw had 189,000 homes DVR the show and usually
average a 5% DVR viewing audience and thus little to no fans chose to
watch Impact live that night and DVR raw instead.
The Thursday night editions of Impact had averaged a 15% viewing
increase, and the big January 4th show had a nearly 20% DVR viewing
increase, Dave Metzler thus came to the conclusion that in actuality,
less people watch Impact later on DVR that are watching Raw on Monday
than people who just did it on the Thursday show to catch it later.

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Anyone make sense of this gibberish? I assume it's bad news for TNA but hell if I can understand it.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah their DVR numbers are apparently down if they are correct and the Observer is bashing TNA (what else is new).

[fatallylost]

DVR numbers are bull. I don't mind them adding live and dvr views, but, it's meaningless. Sometimes people have things to do on Monday night, not every week, so, the numbers can fluctuate in any number of ways.

[TommyDreamerFan]

I'm more curious to see the ratings of any other television show Spike has put in that time slot in the past. Really thats the only true thing TNA has to beat for the mean time (and by that I mean, December they should be back in the 1.0s)

[fatallylost]

That would also depend on IF they had a TV show in the slot. Not movies, specials, or reruns. Which I don't recall them having. I could be wrong though, my memory ain't what it once was.

[Hyde Hill]

As far as I know via reporting on the net the programming in that slot used to be in the 0.8 range or something

[brashleyholland]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, DVR numbers are meaningless. Ratings are used for one reason and one reason only; advertising sales. What's advertised, when it's advertised and how much they charge for it. They don't take DVR ratings into account for that.

Plus, just because you DVR something doesn't mean you watch it. I have a ton of stuff that DVR's automatically, that I never watch.

[LucianCarter]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, DVR numbers are meaningless. Ratings are used for one reason and one reason only; advertising sales. What's advertised, when it's advertised and how much they charge for it. They don't take DVR ratings into account for that.

Plus, just because you DVR something doesn't mean you watch it. I have a ton of stuff that DVR's automatically, that I never watch.

The times are changing. Yes, DVR #s are looked at differently than regular numbers because advertisers know they customer has the capacity to fast forward through commericals. But to say these numbers are ignored is an outdated statement. And, by the way, tracking of DVR #s is done based on those who claim to actually watch the show later. Not those who record it and never watch it.

Also the rise of in-show product placement is, in part, to counter DVRs. So advertisers do care who DVRs since those are people who the in-show placements matter more to. Orlando Jordan showing up with a bottle of 5-hour Energy in his hand is something the viewer, theoretically, won't fast forward through.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah Jan 4th was plastered with that energy drink I almost forgot.

[jesterx7769]

this weeks impact looks like it will have solid matches,

- Solid womans bout
-X-Division Gauntlet
-Wolfe vs. Pope
- Angle vs. Anderson

[Blackman]

i like, i like.

i'll give them another chance then :)

[Hyde Hill]

Last two weeks have been very solid actually despite the ratings.

[TommyDreamerFan]

As far as I know via reporting on the net the programming in that slot used to be in the 0.8 range or something

Then isn't that all they have to produce to keep Spike happy?

Okay sure, they could just throw on a viacom owned movie on there and get the same rating, but if you believe in the Turner philoshpy, content is worth more then advertising.

TNA is also shown on Spike TV's website, for those of you who don't know, doesn't that mean any money they made from the extra internet traffic is pure profit?

Not to mention, I remember a while ago someone said that TNA wasn't cheap programing for Spike. I'm confused by this, cause I know back in the heyday wrestling got on TV because it was cheap content, it's part of how Turner built his TV stations no?

It really seems like TNA is in a psuedo WCW spot right now where the only way it can die is Spike canceling their TV contract of Panda Energy saying "Screw this noise". We also don't know a damn thing about how the carters feel about wrestling, for all we know they may be like Turner, wanting their own wrestling promotion and never caring if it ever makes a dollar. Hell TNA is just starting to break even now, no?

[Hyde Hill]

Nah have been making profit for around one and a half or two years. Even if Spike pulls the plug with a proven record of 1.0 ish ratings unopposed TNA could find another home. As long as the Carters want TNA around it doesn't matter.

TNA sells the television right fees to Spike and Spike then tries to make money using ads and the internet traffic apparently. TNA gets a flat rate with bonuses for high ratings.

Wrestling was cheap content comparatively in those days and was a very proven draw in those days. The promoters did the tv for near free and Vince would even pay the stations and use it as an ad for their House shows and big events. TNA makes the most of their money off the television rights fees percentage wise.

[Linsolv]

re: Wrestling being cheap programming

On one hand, you're right in that wrestling's not really as expensive to produce as other programming, if you look at most television shows.

However, if you look at Spike's other shows, you'll find that they have a bunch of UFC reruns and "best of" shows that barely cost a dime, for the most part.

[jesterx7769]

As has been said before, Spike has also invested in various aspects of TNA, so thats money they wouldn't have to spend for a movie or other regular sindicated show

[Linsolv]

Last night I had a dream about TNA. It was weird. I dreamt that they moved out of the iMPACT Zone and into what looked remarkably like someone's basement -- seated about 100, and had concrete walls. And they signed Roderick Strong away from ROH, which was weird cause I think I've only seen him once.

[pate]

CHRISTOPHER DANIELS UPDATE
By Mike Johnson on 2010-04-04 13:18:34
Since a few readers have asked, Christopher Daniels was indeed released from TNA this past Wednesday. He immediately contacted Ring of Honor and made the deal to debut at last night's Big Bang PPV.

[Hyde Hill]

CHRISTOPHER DANIELS UPDATE
By Mike Johnson on 2010-04-04 13:18:34
Since a few readers have asked, Christopher Daniels was indeed released from TNA this past Wednesday. He immediately contacted Ring of Honor and made the deal to debut at last night's Big Bang PPV.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF*************** ***CCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. Credible as its PWI.

[brashleyholland]

CHRISTOPHER DANIELS UPDATE
By Mike Johnson on 2010-04-04 13:18:34
Since a few readers have asked, Christopher Daniels was indeed released from TNA this past Wednesday. He immediately contacted Ring of Honor and made the deal to debut at last night's Big Bang PPV.

Say whaaaaaaat? What a huge, huge waste! Still, at least they have a guy peddling a bi-sexual gimmick that will go down just great, and a dude who could very well end up in court on a moments notice, and his buddy who has never managed to make people care about him for the past 10 years, right?