The Official TNA Discussion Thread

[Linsolv]

I know that everyone has their own taste, but I can't stand women's wrestling.

Which is weird cause I saw women's MMA the other day, and I like that infinitely better than most men's MMA.

[GDE71]

Another thing to take note of, is that taped TNA show will be going up against the pointless(yet watched heavily) WWE 3 hour draft.

[PeterHilton]

Hell there are PWI's claiming that fact. Its not that I say its true but she was very over given the whole Lauper connection etc. Trish, Chyna and to a lesser extent Lita where pretty over as well in recent times. Hell I will leave this to Remi as he is the expert hehe. Still as it has never been seriously tried there is no evidence either way if serious womens wrestling can be a draw on a major scale.

OK...c'mon...now you're citing Pro Wrestling Illustrated? During the kayfabe era???

It's never been tried seriously because promoters understand their audience. If you had a national company, would you gamble on an arena mostly filled with young males to cheer for a legitimate women's division, or would you show off some chicks with big boobs and hope that they don't hurt themselves out there? What's the safer move there?

[Linsolv]

Question! What would happen if you trained the big boobs women? I mean, I know. It's a silly idea, but hypothetically.

[Hyde Hill]

OK...c'mon...now you're citing Pro Wrestling Illustrated? During the kayfabe era???

It's never been tried seriously because promoters understand their audience. If you had a national company, would you gamble on an arena mostly filled with young males to cheer for a legitimate women's division, or would you show off some chicks with big boobs and hope that they don't hurt themselves out there? What's the safer move there?

Women with great boobs who can legit wrestle? lolz. Plus the female audience is increasing although its still mostly male. And legit is more a way of treating it and presenting it. WWE could present it much better even using the same talent they have now.

[Hyde Hill]

Hey Katie Lea and Natalya are hot imho and can go to a certain extent. Hamada and Sarita come to mind as well.

[PeterHilton]

Question! What would happen if you trained the big boobs women? I mean, I know. It's a silly idea, but hypothetically.

Nothing. You'd get the same bang for your buck.

The E gets the same rating for the current crop of "talentless" Divas as they did when they had Molly, Trish, Lita, Ivory, etc...

And TNA is getting the same ratings for their KO segments that heavily feature TBP, Love, and Tara as they did when they had Kong, Hamada, Sarita, etc...

[Hyde Hill]

Ehm no the E's rating is down Big time. And the Ko segmants are or where some of the highest rated each show. Still given a that TNA has a low rating that is not saying much but still. Also eventhough it was the kayfabe era if PWI felt they could sell issues even exploring that idea in the kayfabe era that doesn't make it less valid that they did so. If they legitimitly thought they could sell issues with it and they made it the front cover piece as they did that means she was over enough for that at least.

[Linsolv]

And TNA is getting the same ratings for their KO segments that heavily feature TBP, Love, and Tara as they did when they had Kong, Hamada, Sarita, etc...

Not fair. Hamada doesn't speak english, Kong is -- and I don't mean to be entirely catty -- not eye candy in the least, and Sarita... well, to be honest I stopped watching like 2 weeks after they brought her on so I can't say anything with regards to her.

[PeterHilton]

Listen, this is asinine.

The majority of the fans of pro wrestling are young males. .. if you really and truly believe that you're going to consistently draw ratings for a 'legit' women's division that are higher then one based more so on T&A, then you have a much higher opinion of that demographic then I do.

Hyde: I don't know what to tell you. PWI made stories up on a regular basis. Was Wendi Richter over? Sure. Do I think that she was popular enough to merit being put on a cover of a wrestling magazine? Definitely.

Do I think that a girl that was hot for maybe 2 years in the early 80s was, at her height, almost as over as the single most popular wrestler in the history of the industry at his very peak? No. No, I f***in; don't.

[Slagaholic]

Ditto. It's like they went out of their way to kill any momentum from this week's show.

No matter how bad it looks (especially the Main Event) I still like some of what they did on the under card.

Pope vs Mr. Anderson = Money

Heel Matt Morgan = Money

And apparently Bischoff looked at his roster and went "hey Shannon Moore has a mohawk...so does Jesse Neal! TAG TEAM!!!" (assuming the report I read is wrong since Neal and Morgan brawling and then shaking hands makes zero sense)

All that being said...UGH! I know you got stuck with a **** situation since you can't go live every Monday Night but Jesus Christ make something important happen at house show or something later this week and tape it so we don't have to be subjected to that drivel I read tonight.

[Hyde Hill]

Listen, this is asinine.

The majority of the fans of pro wrestling are young males. .. if you really and truly believe that you're going to consistently draw ratings for a 'legit' women's division that are higher then one based more so on T&A, then you have a much higher opinion of that demographic then I do.

Hyde: I don't know what to tell you. PWI made stories up on a regular basis. Was Wendi Richter over? Sure. Do I think that she was popular enough to merit being put on a cover of a wrestling magazine? Definitely.

Do I think that a girl that was hot for maybe 2 years in the early 80s was, at her height, almost as over as the single most popular wrestler in the history of the industry at his very peak? No. No, I f***in; don't.

I do not think so either but she was over enough to be used in that way so that can be used as an example of how over women wrestlers and with that women wrestling can be and I do not think it was soley based on hotness. Yes T and A plays an important part but it is not that one necesarrily negates the other. There are plenty of hot women that can wrestle they just need to be presented in the right way and that has never been tried by the E or WCW and as long as it has not been tried by a very big company you can not say one way or the other if it can not work.

[Stennick]

Hyde I like ya buddy but I think you're waaaaaaaay off base here.

The whole "well it never happened so we'll never know" theory is kinda bunk.

Barry Horowitz never got a shot to run in Hogan's shoes so we don't know if he would have drawn better or not....yeah right.

The fact is pro wrestling has proven time and time again no matter what you "want" for someone no matter what "vision" the bookers have the cream will eventually rise to the top. Austin wasn't supposed to be a good guy, The Rock wasn't supposed to be a bad guy, HHH wasn't supposed to be a main eventer. When great things happen the fans pick up on it and raise their voice until Vince or whoever else has no choice but to recognize that.

I never once remember Richter being anything more than an afterthought. Trish, Lita, Chyna, Stephanie McMahon, even Melina, Mickie James and Beth Phoniex are promoted better and viewed better than Wendi was.

Trish is the most popular womans wrestler since Moolah in her prime and even she didn't draw near what the top guys in the business drew.

The Knockouts are a top ratings draw for TNA that being said what Hilton was saying is the numbers are the same if its Hamada and Kong or if its Lacey and Angelina Love.

Women's wrestling is featured more prominatley today than it ever has been in the history of this business. TNA and the WWE both have active womens divisions. In face teh WWE has TWO womens divisions. ROH might as well have a womens division with Shimmer there are more female wrestlers in the spotlight today than ever in history.

All of that being said not one of these women has drawn like The Rock, or Austin, or anyone else. Their great, I don't mind watching them and I've enjoyed me some Victoria vs. Trish feuds but to say "they have never been given teh chance so we'll never know" argument is just a cop out. Trish was on television every week, Chyna actually competed against the males and won the second most important championship they had at the time. They have had several women featured very heavily on television.

Not one of them broke out. Its not that they couldn't or that they weren't skilled enough its that the fans didn't come there for that they weren't interested enough to let them break out. They came to see two thin, tan girls with large breasts wrestle each other and thats what they got. Pro Wrestling at its core is violent and I just don't think guys find it appealing to have two girls scraping each others faces against a cage.

[The Final Countdown]

...Didn't we already go through this same exact argument, like, a week ago?

[Hyde Hill]

Thing is Stennick you are talking individual wrestlers gimmicks etc and main eventers not an entire division and the way its treated and represented. It also works both ways especially when mentioning trips, some guys are made into main eventers by the company and others by the fans and then the company sometimes latches onto it. Its works both ways not fans influence the company but the company, especially in a monopoly situation like this, influences the fans. Still al I was saying was that the E gets a relative pass for booking the women like crap because they always book them like crap. Plus as long as no one seriously gives womens wrestling a platform in a more serious way while being a big enough company we will never know if it can or can not draw. If TNA was doing ratings in the two's and had better attendance and they would have treated the women during the early days then we would have known if it could draw or not.

Hehe yeah Final but its a fun one lol. I see where Peter and Stennick are coming from I and they are right for a majority of the argument but not 100 percent imho.

[TommyDreamerFan]

I want to see nice T&A womens division, as any typical male would.

Do I want to see one that has under-developed characters and female wrestlers that though pretty can't wrestle a lick?

Or do I want to watch the ones that are not only hot (and has more variety then balloons + broomstick bodies), but can wrestle entertaining matches, AND have well developed personalities?

Hands down I'm going to go with the 2nd division, if for no other reason then the fact that their just as hot AND their characters are better thought out. Hell if the WWE did that much, it wouldn't matter that none of them can wrestle.

As for me, I say the sole reason the KO division gets ratings is The Beautiful People, their probably the greatest heels in wrestling period right now.

[Slagaholic]

As for me, I say the sole reason the KO division gets ratings is The Beautiful People, their probably the greatest heels in wrestling period right now.

They're not even the best heels in TNA.

[TommyDreamerFan]

They're not even the best heels in TNA.

mmmm on second though, I'm being a biased mark. I realize. To me, theyre the hottest thing since LAX though.

[fatallylost]

Hmm... I'm not sure I can jump on that bus. I get the gimmick, and see why it works.. but, best heels in the business? Which business? Accounting? Cause, I may agree there.

[Self]

If only TNA had a strong babyface to combat them. ODB's stale. Angelina's flip-flopped around, and her feud with the BP is more because she's butthurt for being kicked out than anything noble (plus she looks dirty). Daffney's a niche character. Taylor & Sarita are... are they still around?

I can't really blame them, but wrestling writers have always struggled with female characters. I know I did in my diary project. They're interesting though. Men have a genetic need to be the alpha male, so becoming a professional fighter makes sense, but do women have that same need to dominate? If not, why would they fight? That's something I'd like explored.

All in all, I agree with TommyDreamerFan. I'd like a Knockouts (or Divas) division filled with hot girls, developed personalities, decent wrestlers and variety. There was a time when TNA seemed to have this, but it's slipped through their fingers as of late. They were a big reason I watched the show. Although the arrival of RVD & Jeff just about makes up the lack of Kong & Gail :D

[Moe Hunter]

Hmm... I'm not sure I can jump on that bus. I get the gimmick, and see why it works.. but, best heels in the business? Which business? Accounting? Cause, I may agree there.

Come on... Inland Revenue are easily the best heels in the Accounting business!

[fatallylost]

Come on... Inland Revenue are easily the best heels in the Accounting business!

That's my argument. Never before have I seen such underhanded tactics in my life!

[Trashbear]

Look, I'll just say this...it's obvious that men in this country like women who compete or perform to the best of their abilities. Nothing is more highly respected and valued than a woman's organization that does everything the men's organization does. And when it comes to athletics, there is no gender gap, women are just as talented as men.

And that's why the WNBA is the most popular sports league in the Universe right now.

[Remianen]

Not fair. Hamada doesn't speak english

False. Ayako does speak English. She's just not very good on the mic.

Men have a genetic need to be the alpha male, so becoming a professional fighter makes sense, but do women have that same need to dominate? If not, why would they fight? That's something I'd like explored.

Self, I mean no disrespect here, but do you know any women? I only ask that question because the answer (to me, having been raised by and around 'em) is so painfully simple, and I'm sure any of the married guys here can attest to it.

They don't need a reason!

At least not one that we understand. That's what makes them interesting and oftentimes vexing, but rarely boring. They don't need a reason to do anything that they choose to do. Men, being largely simple, don't get that as readily because we at least have an excuse to fall back on. If we don't, we make one up!

Give ya a couple examples.

You and a friend show up at an event wearing the same suit. "Nice suit, bro".

Two women show up at an event with the same dress on. Is the response the same? WHY?

You come home and your wife/gf is giving you the cold shoulder. She's upset over something you don't even remember! "Do you know what today is?" Blank look. Turns out, it's the sixth anniversary of the day you met. WHAT?!?

Mind you, I'm not saying EVERY woman is like that. But it happens enough to be considered the baseline or norm. Part of what makes writing for them difficult (at least where wrestling is concerned) is that the very thing that booking is largely based on (making sense to the wider audience) works against being true to the 'accepted' behavior of the characters due to gender. If you book them the same as the men, they don't shine because (news flash!) they aren't men and don't fit into the typical male motivations. So you book them to appeal to the male audience but while doing so, you basically shun the female audience because they can't identify with the characters for several reasons. First, "divas" don't tend to have body types that mirror the majority of the female audience so you wind up just supporting the traditional body image problem. Secondly, most of your female audience wouldn't identify with the actions of a diva product because they (and most of their friends) don't act like that. So you basically shut yourself off from the majority of the potential female audience, to appeal to men in a manner that might even be borderline offensive to the larger female audience (through the perpetuation of the body image thing).

The problem (as I see it) is the fact that the population is changing. Heck, I can pull several quotes from male members of this community who have admitted that their wives control the finances in their household. That seems like a trend. So it would seem to me to be a good idea to attract the interest of the people who are increasingly finding themselves in control of the family's finances, in a way that appeals to them and their (general) sensibilities. Strip clubs tend to appeal to one gender far moreso than the other, so a hyper-sexualized product that promotes unrealistic images of women would appear to me to run counter to that goal.

But then, I'm biased. I'd take a Mia Hamm or Candace Parker over a Madison Rayne or Lacey Von Erich any day of the week and thrice on Sunday.

[Remianen]

Look, I'll just say this...it's obvious that men in this country like women who compete or perform to the best of their abilities. Nothing is more highly respected and valued than a woman's organization that does everything the men's organization does. And when it comes to athletics, there is no gender gap, women are just as talented as men.

And that's why the WNBA is the most popular sports league in the Universe right now.


http://torch.cs.dal.ca/~seaboyer/misc/sarcasm_detector.jpg

[Trashbear]

http://torch.cs.dal.ca/~seaboyer/misc/sarcasm_detector.jpg

Brother, you made me laugh out loud.

[LucianCarter]

Money for pay per view buys. RvD vs Hardy and RvD vs AJ are two of the bigger matches they can put on at this point. TV doesn't make a promotion much money. PPV does.


An often overstated case. In fact, not that many years ago, WWE was making MORE from TV than PPV. These days PPV is ahead again, but it's not so far ahead as to make TV meaningless.

[The Bus]

Self, I mean no disrespect here, but do you know any women? I only ask that question because the answer (to me, having been raised by and around 'em) is so painfully simple, and I'm sure any of the married guys here can attest to it.

They don't need a reason!

At least not one that we understand. That's what makes them interesting and oftentimes vexing, but rarely boring. They don't need a reason to do anything that they choose to do. Men, being largely simple, don't get that as readily because we at least have an excuse to fall back on. If we don't, we make one up!

Being married I have to agree with that statement 100%. Some **** just happens without any logical or apparent reason and with added drama. :)

[Moe Hunter]

First, "divas" don't tend to have body types that mirror the majority of the female audience so you wind up just supporting the traditional body image problem.
Yeah, whereas male wrestlers are perfectly representative of your average joe. Excuse me while I go grate some cheese on my abs...

Seriously though, I've never understood why it's such a big deal to have "realistic rolemodels" for women but not for men. Especially when we're talking about Entertainment. Who's the more appealing character in Zombieland - Woody Harrelson or the scrawny kid? Who would we rather be - Arnie or DeVito? Trish and Lita didn't have bodies mirroring the general populace, but do we seriously think no girls ever looked up to them as strong women they can aspire to be like in some way?

Not a dig on you Remi, just that whole societal pressure being applied where IMO it really doesn't belong.

[Self]

Self, I mean no disrespect here, but do you know any women?

Not enough it seems. :)

Seriously though, I've never understood why it's such a big deal to have "realistic rolemodels" for women but not for men. Especially when we're talking about Entertainment. Who's the more appealing character in Zombieland - Woody Harrelson or the scrawny kid?

Woody was cool, but I didn't care if he lived or died. I could relate to the kid, so I was emotionally invested in his sotry. I wanted him to win.

[Remianen]

Yeah, whereas male wrestlers are perfectly representative of your average joe. Excuse me while I go grate some cheese on my abs...

Seriously though, I've never understood why it's such a big deal to have "realistic rolemodels" for women but not for men. Especially when we're talking about Entertainment. Who's the more appealing character in Zombieland - Woody Harrelson or the scrawny kid? Who would we rather be - Arnie or DeVito? Trish and Lita didn't have bodies mirroring the general populace, but do we seriously think no girls ever looked up to them as strong women they can aspire to be like in some way?

For the same reason a dude can be 5'8, 300 lbs with a beer gut and still think he's dead sexy. Men aren't as susceptible to societal pressures with regard to body image as women are. Men aspire to be Bill Gates far moreso than Arnie or Woody Harrelson. Gee, I wonder why that is?

A man doesn't need to be physically attractive to be considered attractive or desirable. A man doesn't LOSE his attractiveness or desirability with age. Both of these things are the polar opposite to what women have to deal with. Sean Connery and Sophia Loren are around the same age (mid to late 70s). Who's considered more attractive and desirable? I'd wager there are far more men who would aspire to be like Connery than there are women who would aspire to be like Loren. Warren Buffett isn't the most physically attractive man in the world, but show of hands, how many men would switch places with him in a heartbeat?

[Linsolv]

I'm still behind the whole "Beth Phoenix" idea. She's attractive, sure, but she's built like a darned tank! For me, that's the ideal image for women in a performance art based on kicking butt.

Kong had the "tank" thing, but not as much the attractive thing.

As for "realistic role models," I'm sorry but that's not really going to factor in. Wrestling is centered around larger-than-life characters, which is why they have larger-than-life physiques. Now, should all the women look like strippers with implants to triple-Z but still weighing 120 lbs? No. That's a different kind of larger-than-life that I'm not a fan of. Except for Velvet Sky, but if it were a choice between more Beth's and fewer Velvet's, I'd be willing to take one for the team.

--

Incidentally, now that you mention it, the few times I've seen Hamada speak Japanese, she wasn't saying a whole lot. Like with the lock box challenge, I think her segment-closing line was something like (and you'll excuse me, my handle of Japanese is poor and my memory's not that great either) -- "I don't even know what they're talking about."

So it makes sense that they'd pretend she could only speak Japanese to hid the hilariously plain mic work.

[PeterHilton]

Do I want to see one that has under-developed characters and female wrestlers that though pretty can't wrestle a lick?

Or do I want to watch the ones that are not only hot (and has more variety then balloons + broomstick bodies), but can wrestle entertaining matches, AND have well developed personalities?



All in all, I agree with TommyDreamerFan. I'd like a Knockouts (or Divas) division filled with hot girls, developed personalities, decent wrestlers and variety. There was a time when TNA seemed to have this, but it's slipped through their fingers as of late. They were a big reason I watched the show. Although the arrival of RVD & Jeff just about makes up the lack of Kong & Gail :D

That's great but you guys are making the wrong comparison.

What would you rather see: a division filed with hot girls that's scarce on actual character and in-rin performance? Or a division with a bunch of great workers and developed characters, but the girls are shaped like pears and they have faces that looks like they were beaten with the proverbial ugly stick?

What do you pick in that situation? What would most fans?

Saying "Id rather have hot women who can do everything" is great. Thanks, Mr Obvious. But the crux of my point is that fans want to see hot women first and foremost, and their relative 'talent' is like the cherry on the sundae; appreciated but unnecessary.

Woody was cool, but I didn't care if he lived or died. I could relate to the kid, so I was emotionally invested in his sotry. I wanted him to win.

Self, I think you are a really, really different cat when it comes to wrestling fans. When we have these discussions about what fans will watch and are interested in, you should maybe excuse your own POV completely.

Because the vast majority of the people watching wrestling aren't as invested in character development and original storytelling as you are.

[alden]

The problem with tna women wrestlers like love is that she is actully talented when allowed to be. Is she an Akira Hokuto? No....but she is good. I would put her indy work on the same level as phoenix or gail kim. She is just eye candy right now and that is a shame.

[Self]

What would you rather see: a division filed with hot girls that's scarce on actual character and in-rin performance? Or a division with a bunch of great workers and developed characters, but the girls are shaped like pears and they have faces that looks like they were beaten with the proverbial ugly stick?

What do you pick in that situation? What would most fans?

Can I get half a roster of Hot & Inept and half of Ugly & Talented?

I won't speak for 'most fans' (nor should I, see below) but if I had to choose, I'd rather see Hot & Inept. I don't see what character development has to do with the choice though. That's 99% creative's job. It's the writer's fault, not the performer's.

Self, I think you are a really, really different cat when it comes to wrestling fans. When we have these discussions about what fans will watch and are interested in, you should maybe excuse your own POV completely.

No. I accept that my preferences and priorities are different to 'most wrestling fans', but I'm not going to ignore my POV because it's different. Opinion is all I give, to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Remianen]

I'm still behind the whole "Beth Phoenix" idea. She's attractive, sure, but she's built like a darned tank! For me, that's the ideal image for women in a performance art based on kicking butt.

Kong had the "tank" thing, but not as much the attractive thing.

As for "realistic role models," I'm sorry but that's not really going to factor in. Wrestling is centered around larger-than-life characters, which is why they have larger-than-life physiques. Now, should all the women look like strippers with implants to triple-Z but still weighing 120 lbs? No. That's a different kind of larger-than-life that I'm not a fan of. Except for Velvet Sky, but if it were a choice between more Beth's and fewer Velvet's, I'd be willing to take one for the team.

Whether you believe it or not is immaterial. It doesn't change the fact that it's true. Besides, your taste is totally atypical. Do you think Beth plays an intimidating gimmick just because? She could never play the Melina/Maryse/Michelle McCool type of 'look how hot I am', because she's "too big" for that (in the eyes of the people who decide these things). For that matter, neither will Nattie. Beth is intimidating more than hot (in their eyes) so that's how she's portrayed. But just look back at her short stint in SHIMMER to see how she COULD be portrayed (in the 'look how hot I am' manner).

The problem with tna women wrestlers like love is that she is actully talented when allowed to be. Is she an Akira Hokuto? No....but she is good. I would put her indy work on the same level as phoenix or gail kim. She is just eye candy right now and that is a shame.

Um, sorry. Angel Williams isn't in the same league as Beth or Gail, as far as ring work goes. Has she improved a lot? Sure! But her ringwork is still on an Annie Social level. Luckily, she's not expected to do anything particularly stressing in TNA, so it's fine.

[cappyboy]

No. I accept that my preferences and priorities are different to 'most wrestling fans', but I'm not going to ignore my POV because it's different. Opinion is all I give, to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Well said, Self. Some of my preferences and priorities could also draw the advice Brother Hilton gave you. But you can't throw out your POV in a broad-based argument just because it's maybe a bit fringe. Thinking outside the box is all well and good and it can be a good thing if you can back it up. But ultimately you know what you know and you like what you like. You try to step around that, your word slowly but surely starts counting for a lot less. Because then you're not coming from as authentic a place.

Whenever I give a perspective on something, I know there are probably folks who agree with me. But I'm not about to go around projecting how many agree with me or act like my thoughts are those of the monolithic "everybody". I can only ultimately speak for myself and that's all I claim to do. Just as you do, Self. It's one of the reasons I love reading your posts even when I disagree with them. Remi's our voice of reason, I like to think I'm one of the resident voices of balance and you're one of the group's visionaries. I get what Peter was trying to suggest and I'm sure it was coming from a place that meant well. But you bring an element to the table we need around here and I hope you never take Peter's advice on this one. You wouldn't be the same interesting Self if you did.

[Linsolv]

You're right, Remi. My taste is atypical, I guess...

Any suggestions other than Shimmer for proper women's wrestling? (I find the whole Shimmer setup of having all their DVDs take place over a matter of months to be confusing and difficult to handle..) Japan counts.

[PeterHilton]

No. I accept that my preferences and priorities are different to 'most wrestling fans', but I'm not going to ignore my POV because it's different. Opinion is all I give, to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I"m sorry..that's not what I meant. I don't mean to ignore your POV.

Just that it's different enough that when you're giving your opinion that there are times that if a company is doing something to displease you they might actually be hitting the mark with the majority of their fanbase. And vice versa.

[Shmoe]

I love RVD, always marked hard for him since his heel turn back in '97, and I think he's a great choice to have as champion because you know he can still go. Still, I just wondered ...what the hell is up with the theme music he has in TNA? It's one of the worst I can remember hearing in the whole of professional wrestling. Give him 'Ass Man' for all I care, at least it wasn't some gang vocal shouting the name of his finisher at me. Jeeeeeeez.

[Hyde Hill]

That's great but you guys are making the wrong comparison.

What would you rather see: a division filed with hot girls that's scarce on actual character and in-rin performance? Or a division with a bunch of great workers and developed characters, but the girls are shaped like pears and they have faces that looks like they were beaten with the proverbial ugly stick?

What do you pick in that situation? What would most fans?

Saying "Id rather have hot women who can do everything" is great. Thanks, Mr Obvious. But the crux of my point is that fans want to see hot women first and foremost, and their relative 'talent' is like the cherry on the sundae; appreciated but unnecessary.



Self, I think you are a really, really different cat when it comes to wrestling fans. When we have these discussions about what fans will watch and are interested in, you should maybe excuse your own POV completely.

Because the vast majority of the people watching wrestling aren't as invested in character development and original storytelling as you are.

Now we are getting away from the original discusion, the fact remains that while WWE has the oppurtunity and in some cases even the talent to do both they chose just to go for eye candy. Both is best but since the E always just goes for Eye Candy and screw stories, wrestling and character they get away with it more because that is what they always do like Bigpapa and I pointed out.

[Trashbear]

I love RVD, always marked hard for him since his heel turn back in '97, and I think he's a great choice to have as champion because you know he can still go. Still, I just wondered ...what the hell is up with the theme music he has in TNA? It's one of the worst I can remember hearing in the whole of professional wrestling. Give him 'Ass Man' for all I care, at least it wasn't some gang vocal shouting the name of his finisher at me. Jeeeeeeez.

RVD's theme music was written and performed by a personal friend of his, Kushinator. It's been the intro music for his site for a while as well.

[Hyde Hill]

I love RVD, always marked hard for him since his heel turn back in '97, and I think he's a great choice to have as champion because you know he can still go. Still, I just wondered ...what the hell is up with the theme music he has in TNA? It's one of the worst I can remember hearing in the whole of professional wrestling. Give him 'Ass Man' for all I care, at least it wasn't some gang vocal shouting the name of his finisher at me. Jeeeeeeez.

As with Hardies theme blame RVD for that one as its the song he uses on his website and podcast and that he likes. You can blame TNA for letting him chose it himself like with Hardy though.

[Hyde Hill]

Well said, Self. Some of my preferences and priorities could also draw the advice Brother Hilton gave you. But you can't throw out your POV in a broad-based argument just because it's maybe a bit fringe. Thinking outside the box is all well and good and it can be a good thing if you can back it up. But ultimately you know what you know and you like what you like. You try to step around that, your word slowly but surely starts counting for a lot less. Because then you're not coming from as authentic a place.

Whenever I give a perspective on something, I know there are probably folks who agree with me. But I'm not about to go around projecting how many agree with me or act like my thoughts are those of the monolithic "everybody". I can only ultimately speak for myself and that's all I claim to do. Just as you do, Self. It's one of the reasons I love reading your posts even when I disagree with them. Remi's our voice of reason, I like to think I'm one of the resident voices of balance and you're one of the group's visionaries. I get what Peter was trying to suggest and I'm sure it was coming from a place that meant well. But you bring an element to the table we need around here and I hope you never take Peter's advice on this one. You wouldn't be the same interesting Self if you did.

What about me? What about Ra.... Hyde? lolz. Nah I get what you are trying to say its just important to seperate what you like and what you think and what you think the majority likes or thinks in discussions as long as that is clear then there is np.

For example I love your hatred for Anderson as its actually contrary to your general balanced nature hehe. But you do make it clear that its your opinion and give good arguments for it at the same time.

[Trashbear]

Anyway, let's get back to something on which we all agree:

Rob Terry is a big, untalented choad.

Also, he sucks.

[Moe Hunter]

I still believe the body image thing doesn't have much of a place in wrestling. If guys want to be old and rich, do we all look up to Vince McMahon and Donald Trump? Here's my thing - wrestlers are supposed to be athletes. So I'd like the majority of them (male and female) to be or at least be able to pass for athletes. You can have your sticks with balloons scattered about (not my thing, but as people say - it appeals to a key demographic), but ideally unless they can really put on a match they should stick to being managers or other on-screen non wrestling personalities.


BTW, making my way through Lockdown - started with the Angle/Anderson match. I liked it, though both instances of blood seemed early and not really important. Also, Angle gave Anderson TWO backdrops that looked pretty much exactly like the one Anderson gave Orton to get himself fired. Good lord the Moonsault was as good as everybody said! I really liked the story of the match (though still cringe every time Tenay says "warrior medal"). Stepping over Anderson to get out of the cage was great, as was the dick-stomp to make a point.

[Remianen]

You're right, Remi. My taste is atypical, I guess...

Any suggestions other than Shimmer for proper women's wrestling? (I find the whole Shimmer setup of having all their DVDs take place over a matter of months to be confusing and difficult to handle..) Japan counts.

For what it's worth, I'd do Beth well before I'd even look twice at Maryse so I share that opinion. But there are multiple studies that show many men are intimidated by women of a certain body type or look or disposition. It's kinda like how an assertive, confident woman is often viewed negatively ("bitch") but an assertive, confident man isn't.

And there are DVDs available from many of the shows run by joshi promotions (Wave, Ibuki, SPIRIT, NEO, etc). I'll dig up some links. I typically get mine from friends in Osaka and Okinawa.

I"m sorry..that's not what I meant. I don't mean to ignore your POV.

Just that it's different enough that when you're giving your opinion that there are times that if a company is doing something to displease you they might actually be hitting the mark with the majority of their fanbase. And vice versa.

For what it's worth Self, I have to do this exact thing. Back in 07, I explored the possibility of opening a women's promotion or investing in an existing one and during the due diligence process, my eyes were opened. Women's wrestling will never be mainstream in America (Canada's possible, but there's no real money to be made in Canada. Sad but true.) due to our cultural tendencies. That, along with mandatory roster turnover and a relative lack of a replacement pool (male wrestling school graduates outnumber females by 9 to 1, as of 2007), and it creates quite a bit of difficulty. (By mandatory roster turnover, I mean things like the moment a woman finds out she's pregnant, she can't be used in any physical roles due to insurance requirements/restrictions, as one example. So you lose that worker, for all intents and purposes, for a year or more).

Bottom line is, while there are millions of "hot girls", there are maybe a few dozen "hot girls who can go in the ring". The costs involved are also somewhat prohibitive given the possible revenue that can be realistically projected.

I still believe the body image thing doesn't have much of a place in wrestling. If guys want to be old and rich, do we all look up to Vince McMahon and Donald Trump? Here's my thing - wrestlers are supposed to be athletes. So I'd like the majority of them (male and female) to be or at least be able to pass for athletes. You can have your sticks with balloons scattered about (not my thing, but as people say - it appeals to a key demographic), but ideally unless they can really put on a match they should stick to being managers or other on-screen non wrestling personalities.

Moe, wrestling is visual, is it not? It's conveyed via media, yes? That makes it either a supporter of the status quo or an opponent of it. The status quo is 'women should look like this'. Those are the images that women (and worse, GIRLS) are bombarded with on a daily basis. I coached a girls basketball team. Several of the girls on the team dreaded (DREADED) puberty because "it's going to make me fat". I worked for a while with Emme (the plus size model) and saw several appearances she made talking to girls about this very issue. Right now, men are getting just a little taste of what women have to deal with ("Smiling Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiling_Bob)" ring a bell?). But it doesn't affect guys the same. Besides, they don't give specific numbers in those ads (women get the numbers with the dress size and bra size thing).

The issue is real and exists across all visual media. In fact, here's a test you can do to prove it (at least partially). Look at the body types of women in various media. You can tell almost immediately which demographic that ad or product is targeting. Rap videos have what kind of body type? Ads in magazines for rims have similar body type women. What demo(s) are being targeted? I'm not saying wrestling should buck that trend. What I'm saying is they're in a position to be diverse and choose not to be. Thus, they're going to lock out a large (and growing) portion of the available audience. That's okay if the current audience is growing at a decent rate and the status quo of the past remains the same.

But neither of those things is happening.

[cappyboy]

What about me? What about Ra.... Hyde? lolz. Nah I get what you are trying to say its just important to seperate what you like and what you think and what you think the majority likes or thinks in discussions as long as that is clear then there is np.

Exactly. Way to boil it down, Brother Hill.

For example I love your hatred for Anderson as its actually contrary to your general balanced nature hehe. But you do make it clear that its your opinion and give good arguments for it at the same time.

Thank you. I try to do what I can on this front. And I think it's especially important when you are coming from a minority position. If you're going to be a good contrarian, you gotta bring the meat so folks can see you're not just kneejerking or rejecting stuff out of hand. That way, even if you can't bring folks over to your side, you've at least contributed to the conservation. And in any even-handed crowd, get props for doing so.

[Hyde Hill]

Anyway, let's get back to something on which we all agree:

Rob Terry is a big, untalented choad.

Also, he sucks.

Yeah Abyss and Jarrett seemed the grandmasters of promo and wrestling compared to him lolz.

PS thanks Cappy.

[Linsolv]

For what it's worth, I'd do Beth well before I'd even look twice at Maryse so I share that opinion. But there are multiple studies that show many men are intimidated by women of a certain body type or look or disposition. It's kinda like how an assertive, confident woman is often viewed negatively ("bitch") but an assertive, confident man isn't.

And there are DVDs available from many of the shows run by joshi promotions (Wave, Ibuki, SPIRIT, NEO, etc). I'll dig up some links. I typically get mine from friends in Osaka and Okinawa.

Finding stuff's never been a problem of mine. Can't really say why, because it's really the only skill I've got that I never once tried to work on, but obscure stuff always seems to be within arm's reach.

I was mostly just asking for recommendations. :p But I'll look into Joshi.

[Stennick]

I agree Rob is a big, muscular guy that could hurt someone and has little wrestling skill. Please remember in 2002 Batista was that way as well.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah but Batista has a better look then Terry. More menacing and better star quality.

[Trashbear]

I agree Rob is a big, muscular guy that could hurt someone and has little wrestling skill. Please remember in 2002 Batista was that way as well.

Would I be alone in thinking that Batista still pretty much sucks? His match with 'Taker from WrestleMania a few years ago was pretty good, but I throw up in my mouth a little at the memory of his Umaga match. And a lot of other matches.

He does walk for miles throughout a pit of danger though, so...take that for what it's worth.

[TommyDreamerFan]

That's great but you guys are making the wrong comparison.

What would you rather see: a division filed with hot girls that's scarce on actual character and in-rin performance? Or a division with a bunch of great workers and developed characters, but the girls are shaped like pears and they have faces that looks like they were beaten with the proverbial ugly stick?

What do you pick in that situation? What would most fans?

Saying "Id rather have hot women who can do everything" is great. Thanks, Mr Obvious. But the crux of my point is that fans want to see hot women first and foremost, and their relative 'talent' is like the cherry on the sundae; appreciated but unnecessary.



Self, I think you are a really, really different cat when it comes to wrestling fans. When we have these discussions about what fans will watch and are interested in, you should maybe excuse your own POV completely.

Because the vast majority of the people watching wrestling aren't as invested in character development and original storytelling as you are.

I don't think theres any knockout on the roster that's particularly ugly, but everyone floats their own boat.

I'd still choose the show with the better developed characters.

[Stennick]

Yeah but Batista has a better look then Terry. More menacing and better star quality.

the only thing I see Batista having that Terry doesn't have is a better hair cut, he's from the states, and he's got some nice tats.

With some work Terry could look like a star, what really sets him back is he doesn't have a character yet. He reminds of those really nice guys that were real big in school but couldn't hurt a fly.

If they gave him a haircut, new tights, some cool music and had him squash X division jobbers in four minute matches he'd get over. Do this for a while working with him and hoping his in ring work can atleast be safe. After a few months of doing this evaluate where you're at take the next step and put a title on him or have somebody else just utterly destroy him and move on.

Terry isn't impossible to get over but "nice guy who hangs out with Hogans Superpower Squad and feuds with Orlando Jordon while doing some strange pose where he grabs the ropes and makes a face like he's taking a dump is not the way to do it. Start slow with the guy, work on his safety, his in ring skill and go from there.

He has a good look big and muscular or not TNA doesn't have anybody with near his body. Say what you will about the guy but there is still a place for big, over muscled stars, there always has been and there always will be. Well built guys get pushes and theres a reason for that.

Don't under estimate the squash match Goldberg built a career on it, and if people remember Wrath did the same thing. Heck they could have done Wrath vs. Goldberg in a streak vs. streak match at Starrcade he was getting over that much. Even recently with Big Daddy V they built that guy over night by having him destroy poor unfortunate souls. Have Orlando beat Rob for the title, why not? It clearly means nothing to them anyway if their letting someone as green as Rob hold it. Have Orlando beat it, Rob freaks out "goes away for a while" he comes back new haircut, music, tights, and just starts crushing people have him DESTROY Orlando to get his title back and you might have a star on your hands. Its not like the guy is Colin Delaney he can be a star if handled properly and patiently.

[cappyboy]

Have Orlando beat Rob for the title, why not? It clearly means nothing to them anyway if their letting someone as green as Rob hold it. Have Orlando beat it, Rob freaks out "goes away for a while" he comes back new haircut, music, tights, and just starts crushing people have him DESTROY Orlando to get his title back and you might have a star on your hands. Its not like the guy is Colin Delaney he can be a star if handled properly and patiently.

I wouldn't count on this part of the plan. Booking symmetry like this seems like it's anethema to to TNA. See my recent rant about the way they separated Terry from Magnus and Williams and blew off the Feast or Fired scam Williams pulled on Terry.

That said, even though I don't like Terry as such, a move like this would bring me closer to his side. Talented or not, it would be a step in the right creative direction for TNA. And if they could get Terry's push in a consistently symmtrical pattern, I might his lack of talent slide some. I'm just that big a mark for symmetry.

[Remianen]

Finding stuff's never been a problem of mine. Can't really say why, because it's really the only skill I've got that I never once tried to work on, but obscure stuff always seems to be within arm's reach.

I was mostly just asking for recommendations. :p But I'll look into Joshi.

Joshi promotions do tend to get silly quite a bit but it's to keep the gravitas-levity balance.

NEO and Oz Academy are personal favorites, and ICE Ribbon is awesome for seeing really young (like 13-16 year old) workers really tighten up their game. ICE Ribbon's top title (ICE x60) also has a weight limit (60kg) and its current champion (Emi Sakura, the owner of the promotion) is about 17 lbs over the limit so she has to "make weight" before the next event or forfeit the title. Kinda like when Matt Hardy was cruiserweight champion, but lots funnier due to the various videos they produce showing her trying to lose weight.

Hmm speaking of which, I need to see about hitting a few shows this summer.

[shawn michaels 82]

I agree Rob is a big, muscular guy that could hurt someone and has little wrestling skill. Please remember in 2002 Batista was that way as well.


I truly hope you meant: In 2002 Batista was that way as well, and though he still his, some people (very sadly) buy everything that WWE throws at them. :D

Would I be alone in thinking that Batista still pretty much sucks? His match with 'Taker from WrestleMania a few years ago was pretty good, but I throw up in my mouth a little at the memory of his Umaga match. And a lot of other matches.

He does walk for miles throughout a pit of danger though, so...take that for what it's worth.


No, you are not alone. He is still a walking piece of ****. :D

Seriously, Rob's push can actually work, because it wouldn't be the first time that a talentless guy made it. Again, Batista is a good example. I can't stand any of them, but it seems that they look good for some demographics. Although i don't this it has nothing to do with that. Everybody (including here) is always criticizing the IWC, and yes sometimes we exagerate a bit because we do have much knowledge about the subject, but i believe that the true reason why guys like batista make it is because most people don't understand that much about the business and will take every little thing that WWE (for example) throws at them. If everyone was like the IWC, or at least if everyone had a minimum understanding of what they are watching, you can bet that WWE's product would be completely diferent.

[Blackman]

Joshi is funny. :p

As for the knockouts, what's with Taylor & Stock? They haven't appeared in so long. Is there a problem or something? The division kinda sucks, since they abuse speciality matches, toy with the title, make a tag title for a division that only has like 7 active workers. Fail...

As for the rest of the promotion. I am bored or seeing the same match over and over. Make it interesting. And fire those old dudes. As much as I loved them in the past, no one wants to see them anymore. Flair & Hogan can stay to build some stars by interacting with them, but that doesn't seem to happen now, does it?

[Slagaholic]

The rumor going around is Vince Russo out as head writer, Paul Heyman in. Not confirmed by anyone in TNA yet.

[The Final Countdown]

I read that that was a possibility in the Observer last week, but they seemed to think it was a dwindling one. Hopefully this is true, and they just let Heyman do his thing (from a creative standpoint, I mean. Don't let the dude anywhere near the financial aspects of running the company.)

[TommyDreamerFan]

Heard Vinny Ru is taking a break cause he's burned out, and no longer wants to head creative when he comes back.

Smartest move in the world imo, he shouldn't be head of creative but he's definitely a great ideas man.

While Heyman is the ideal choice, don't get me wrong, it actually makes me wonder about who else if not Russo could take that spot? Eric's a business man and not creative. Raven maybe?

It annoys me that when we all call out for someone to save the booking we all turn to Heyman. Paul E. isn't always going to be there to save us.

[shawn michaels 82]

The rumor going around is Vince Russo out as head writer, Paul Heyman in. Not confirmed by anyone in TNA yet.

Russo out permanently or just as a head writer?


I read that that was a possibility in the Observer last week, but they seemed to think it was a dwindling one. Hopefully this is true, and they just let Heyman do his thing (from a creative standpoint, I mean. Don't let the dude anywhere near the financial aspects of running the company.)

Heyman doesn't stand a chance. For years all i heard from the IWC was: "Hope TNA signs Bischoff and/or Heyman and then WWE will have to wathc it's back!" Seriously? Come on! Bischoff is already there and we can all see how that work out. Heyman is seriously overrated. I mean, i ain't saying he's bad but the only good moment of him came in a trash hardcore promotion back in the 90's, AND,whem he took control of WWE's ECW we all saw how that worked out. Sure, Vince never made his life easy, but still, heyman is no Messias about to save TNA. I agree that quality would probably increase if he came in, but i repeat he is no Messias about to save TNA.

[Self]

Heyman doesn't stand a chance. FOr year all i heard from the IWC was: "Hope TNA signs Bischoff and/or Heyman and then WWE will have to wathc it's back!" Seriously? Come on! Bischoff is already there and we can all see how that work out. Heyman is seriously overrated. I mean, i ain't saying he's bad but the only good moment of him came in a trash hardcore promotion back in the 90's, AND,whem he took control of WWE's ECW we all saw how that worked out. Sure, Vince never made his life easy, but still, heyman is no Messias about to save TNA.

Someone in the IWC put Bischoff in the same league as Paul Heyman? I thought Bisch was universally derided as one of the two men responsible for booking WCW into oblivion.

I was a Heyman fan back in the day, but I've always been a supporter of looking to the future; new creative forces with new ideas, rather than looking to past icons. Although clearly that's not TNA's stance. Still, I'd welcome change. I gave Hogan the benefit of the doubt, so I'll do the same for Heyman.

Not that this week's Impact was bad. Not at all. I enjoyed it a lot.

[The Celt]

Russo out permanently or just as a head writer?




Heyman doesn't stand a chance. FOr year all i heard from the IWC was: "Hope TNA signs Bischoff and/or Heyman and then WWE will have to wathc it's back!" Seriously? Come on! Bischoff is already there and we can all see how that work out. Heyman is seriously overrated. I mean, i ain't saying he's bad but the only good moment of him came in a trash hardcore promotion back in the 90's, AND,whem he took control of WWE's ECW we all saw how that worked out. Sure, Vince never made his life easy, but still, heyman is no Messias about to save TNA.

*COUGH COUGH SPLUTTER* Heyman also booked Smackdown around 2002, 2003 which is frequently cited as it's best era, with it's stars being nicknamed the Smackdown 6. *COUGH COUGH SPLUTTER*

[PeterHilton]

Heyman doesn't stand a chance. FOr year all i heard from the IWC was: "Hope TNA signs Bischoff and/or Heyman and then WWE will have to wathc it's back!" Seriously? Come on! Bischoff is already there and we can all see how that work out. Heyman is seriously overrated. I mean, i ain't saying he's bad but the only good moment of him came in a trash hardcore promotion back in the 90's, AND,whem he took control of WWE's ECW we all saw how that worked out. Sure, Vince never made his life easy, but still, heyman is no Messias about to save TNA.

You clearly didn't see ECW as it happened. The wrestling was trash a lot of the times, but he took guys that had very little going for them and turned them into frickin stars based on the stories and rivalries he created.

Matches aside, ECW had some of the most inventie, brilliantly executed storylines of any era, past or present.

I have no idea if Paul is still relevant as a writer, but if TNA is trying to find someone to get the most out of their talent and oucnh up the characters that have gone stale, he's not a bad choice.

[shawn michaels 82]

Someone in the IWC put Bischoff in the same league as Paul Heyman? I thought Bisch was universally derided as one of the two men responsible for booking WCW into oblivion.

I was a Heyman fan back in the day, but I've always been a supporter of looking to the future; new creative forces with new ideas, rather than looking to past icons. Although clearly that's not TNA's stance. Still, I'd welcome change. I gave Hogan the benefit of the doubt, so I'll do the same for Heyman.

Not that this week's Impact was bad. Not at all. I enjoyed it a lot.


Lot's of people actually. While acusing him of the WCW destruction they actually put him in that league. Strange, but true.

[TommyDreamerFan]

You clearly didn't see ECW as it happened. The wrestling was trash a lot of the times, but he took guys that had very little going for them and turned them into frickin stars based on the stories and rivalries he created.

Matches aside, ECW had some of the most inventie, brilliantly executed storylines of any era, past or present.

I have no idea if Paul is still relevant as a writer, but if TNA is trying to find someone to get the most out of their talent and oucnh up the characters that have gone stale, he's not a bad choice.

and am I the only one who feels WWECW wasn't that bad under heyman?

[TommyDreamerFan]

Lot's of people actually. While acusing him of the WCW destruction they actually put him in that league. Strange, but true.

Even though, ya know, there was that whole year where he managed to get WCW in the black.

Cause ya know, being the only guy to get that perpetual money loser to turn a profit... and didn't Heyman fail in terms of being a business man?

[shawn michaels 82]

You clearly didn't see ECW as it happened. The wrestling was trash a lot of the times, but he took guys that had very little going for them and turned them into frickin stars based on the stories and rivalries he created.

Matches aside, ECW had some of the most inventie, brilliantly executed storylines of any era, past or present.

I have no idea if Paul is still relevant as a writer, but if TNA is trying to find someone to get the most out of their talent and oucnh up the characters that have gone stale, he's not a bad choice.

Oh i saw ECW as it was, and i don't disagree, but it was still a trash hardcore promotion regardless of it. But i'm not saying you're wrong,that's why i said he ain't bad. He was pretty good, but still overrated, bearing in mind that those acomplishments were years ago, among other things. Everything changes.

[Slagaholic]

Oh i saw ECW as it was, and i don't disagree, but it was still a trash hardcore promotion regardless of it. But i'm not saying you're wrong,that's why i said he ain't bad. He was pretty good, but still overrated, bearing in mind that those acomplishments were years ago, among other things. Everything changes.

So who should book TNA?

[TommyDreamerFan]

- The AJ Styles-Rob Van Dam title change was originally slated for the Sacrifice pay-per-view on 5/16. Creative brought the match forward to try to take advantage of WWE's travel plight. Styles wasn't very happy with the way things went down but the idea is that RVD as champion would sell more tickets at house shows.


... I really don't know what to say. That was smart of TNA to do it, all around. The money they would of made in terms of buys would of been pennies compared to the help it would do them to pull the trigger on it tonight and increase their fanbase... And of course house shows are where they make their cash, at least thats what I've heard Double J say.

[shawn michaels 82]

So who should book TNA?

Well, i dind't mean to imply that he shouldn't be given the position. That Heyman doesn't stand achance remark didn't came out as it should wich lead to incorret interpretations for what i was trying to say. Wich is: He is no messiah and he is overrated. Who should book it? Someone other then russo. Keep russo as a writter and get a skilled head booker. Maybe Heyman could do the trick, but i doubt it. Hope i'm wrong, it would be good if TNA succeeded. It would be great, actually. Answering your question: ME! I should book TNA.

[PeterHilton]

Lot's of people actually. While acusing him of the WCW destruction they actually put him in that league. Strange, but true.

You must've misread those rumors. The TNA fans who talked about Bischoff/Heyman wanted the two to come in as a team with EB as the finance /business guy and Heyman as the booker. Playing to their strengths as it were...

and am I the only one who feels WWECW wasn't that bad under heyman?

Possibly. It was pretty bad at times.

Oh i saw ECW as it was, and i don't disagree, but it was still a trash hardcore promotion regardless of it. But i'm not saying you're wrong,that's why i said he ain't bad. He was pretty good, but still overrated, bearing in mind that those acomplishments were years ago, among other things. Everything changes.


I still don't understand how the wrestling relates to the stories..and as someone else pointed out he had an extremely successful run on SD.

[PeterHilton]

Well, i dind't mean to imply that he shouldn't be given the position. That Heyman doesn't stand achance remark didn't came out as it should wich lead to incorret interpretations for what i was trying to say. Wich is: He is no messiah and he is overrated. Who should book it? Someone other then russo. Keep russo as a writter and get a skilled head booker. Maybe Heyman could do the trick, but i doubt it. Hope i'm wrong, it would be good if TNA succeeded. It would be great, actually. Answering your question: ME! I should book TNA.

You keep saying that..but his promotion completely changed the way wrestling promotions tried to present themselves and how far they were willing to go with thier characters and storytelling. Every new 'cutting edge' promotion that has come after him is basically doing a spin on his style.

he's like Qunetin Tarantino..yeah his best work was years ago but if his style and approach is still something people are copying, how can he possibly be "overrated?"

[shawn michaels 82]

You keep saying that..but his promotion completely changed the way wrestling promotions tried to present themselves and how far they were willing to go with thier characters and storytelling. Every new 'cutting edge' promotion that has come after him is basically doing a spin on his style.

he's like Qunetin Tarantino..yeah his best work was years ago but if his style and approach is still something people are copying, how can he possibly be "overrated?"

That's easy to answer. Heyman, just like Quentin, had his best work years ago. And it did change the perspective we had about movies and wrestling, in heyman's case. And that's why people are still doing a spin on his style. Because it was a revolutionary thing, and because people always try to squeeze all they can out of successful formulas. A good example are movies like the "Usual suspects". It was a film made long time ago, and to this day (Although that formula is already dry and tired) there are still people trying to use it, although it is pretty obvious that it has nothing left to offer, cause people are tired of it. So, althoug Heyman was a valuable asset back in the day he is overrated nowadays. I'm not saying what he did back then was overrated, i'm saying the thought that he could cause a revolution like that again is just outreageous. Don't expect great things from him, Sure, he can do much better then what they have now, but don't count with a messiah. And yes, it sure looks like some people think he would be a messiah. "Oh, Heyman going to TNA would be so great." is a sentence i hear a lot, not just here. It wouldn't be great. It COULD be good. But just like Tarantino is nowadays doing acceptable and good stuff (but not ground breaking), Heyman wouldn't probably go more far then that. Cause he is at the same level. again, i hope i'm wrong, and i really want TNA to succeed, so if they sign Heyman, i will suport him.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Possibly. It was pretty bad at times.

It wasn't great but got to see RVD/Sabu ladder match. Heel Heyman. Big Show I felt made the perfect heel then. CM Punk's rise. Hardcore Holly/RVD matches. Test for a while was doing something interesting. The Kevin Thorne gimmick that would of really caught on with Twilight being right around the corner.

[CQI13]

Heel Heyman was atrocious! So the man who made the promotion what it was is now going against the people he "created" (the Originals)? Same reason why heel Vince bringing in the nWo to kill WWE was beyond dumb as well.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep Heyman is no Booking god but he is the best booker out there period. Would be a great move imho. As to the who else question? Some of the guys here and within TNA I would say Raven.

[shawn michaels 82]

Heel Heyman was atrocious! So the man who made the promotion what it was is now going against the people he "created" (the Originals)? Same reason why heel Vince bringing in the nWo to kill WWE was beyond dumb as well.

I disagree. Any of those storylines could have made it big time, if it they were just a little bit diferent.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I don't think anybody's outright calling Heyman the messiah of TNA, but rather that if a head creative spot freed and had to go to ANYONE, the best bet would be Paul E. You say he's overrated nowadays, but he'd have to be rated on something to be considered overrated. I don't think he had a voice anywhere after SD! 2003(which was awesomely booked as well).

But you gotta base on something to say he ain't got a chance. He's not guaranteed for success, but not on the other end of the spectrum either.

Unless you have someone better in mind.

and am I the only one who feels WWECW wasn't that bad under heyman?

Indeed, and even there Heyman had 30% of the voice when that started. Some of his ideas went through but Vince and Kevin Dunn always kept shooting his stuff down, and after the D2D disaster Vince had the audacity to point HIM with the finger for all the blame.

[CQI13]

That's a pretty big IF. That's like saying "Russo would be a good writer, if he wasn't such a horrible one."

**NOTE: I like Russo, and am simply using it as an example.

[shawn michaels 82]

That's easy to answer. Heyman, just like Quentin, had his best work years ago. And it did change the perspective we had about movies and wrestling, in heyman's case. And that's why people are still doing a spin on his style. Because it was a revolutionary thing, and because people always try to squeeze all they can out of successful formulas. A good example are movies like the "Usual suspects". It was a film made long time ago, and to this day (Although that formula is already dry and tired) there are still people trying to use it, although it is pretty obvious that it has nothing left to offer, cause people are tired of it. So, althoug Heyman was a valuable asset back in the day he is overrated nowadays. I'm not saying what he did back then was overrated, i'm saying the thought that he could cause a revolution like that again is just outreageous. Don't expect great things from him, Sure, he can do much better then what they have now, but don't count with a messiah. And yes, it sure looks like some people think he would be a messiah. "Oh, Heyman going to TNA would be so great." is a sentence i hear a lot, not just here. It wouldn't be great. It COULD be good. But just like Tarantino is nowadays doing acceptable and good stuff (but not ground breaking), Heyman wouldn't probably go more far then that. Cause he is at the same level. again, i hope i'm wrong, and i really want TNA to succeed, so if they sign Heyman, i will suport him.

I just added som stuff, hence the quote.

[lazorbeak]

Heyman's done nothing but a garbage promotion 10 years ago? Whaaaaaa?

His run on Smackdown was phenomenal. Yes, he was dealing with a pretty loaded roster but he made Chris Benoit a main eventer, helped re-introduce John Cena in a wildly successful gimmick, and made Brock Lesnar one of the biggest names in the sport.... all on a #2 show. He booked CM Punk in OVW where he won the title, then when Heyman came back to book ECW, he helped establish Punk, re-invigorated the careers of guys like Hardcore Holly, Test and the Big Show, and the list goes on. Honestly the biggest problem Heyman faced in the ECW return was all the aging smarks that wanted non-stop nostalgia.

Unlike some guys, who repeat the same ideas again and again and hope they eventually work, Heyman actually seems to have a grasp on what people will respond to and gives them that, based on the resources he has. I don't know that there's a better booker at making everyone on the roster serve a purpose or creating bona fide stars, two areas where TNA is sorely lacking.

[Linsolv]

Funny thing. My parents knew Paul E. in the 80s, cause they lived next to a couple of the wrestlers he managed. Odd tie-in.

[Hyde Hill]

Katie Lea Burchill, Micky James, Shelton Benjamin, Kung Funaki, Slam Master J and Jimmy Wang Yang released by the E. Source the E website as reported by 411.

First three could possibly be good additions imho.

[Slagaholic]

Benjamin would be better utilized by ROH, but it'd be fun to see him work for TNA.

[PeterHilton]

Katie Lea Burchill, Micky James, Shelton Benjamin, Kung Funaki, Slam Master J and Jimmy Wang Yang released by the E. Source the E website as reported by 411.

First three could possibly be good additions imho.

Ouch. Add Mickie. Add Shelton only if he's reuniting with Angle and Haas.

[Bigpapa42]

The likes of Benjamin (even without Haas), Mickie (likely to pursue her music career), and Burchill could all do something in TNA. But only if their addition meant equal losses. Simply further bloating the roster does no good, as people top people cannot consistently get on TV as it is.

[shawn michaels 82]

Katie Lea Burchill, Micky James, Shelton Benjamin, Kung Funaki, Slam Master J and Jimmy Wang Yang released by the E. Source the E website as reported by 411.

First three could possibly be good additions imho.

Ridiculous...they never gave shelton a proper push and now they release him...ridiculous...But him and mickie would be gould signings.

[Hyde Hill]

The likes of Benjamin (even without Haas), Mickie (likely to pursue her music career), and Burchill could all do something in TNA. But only if their addition meant equal losses. Simply further bloating the roster does no good, as people top people cannot consistently get on TV as it is.

Yeah there is one region where the possibly comes into. Allthough the KO division can use some strengthening after the loss of Kong, Flash and Roxxi. And what I have seen from Katie Lee she is pretty good in the ring and good looking.

[TracyBrooksFan]

Mickie wont leave wrestling she has said music a side job her passion is wrestling so if she comes to TNA it will help the KO division

[Hyde Hill]

Yep plus she is a TNA original hehe.

[liontamer]

watching the replay (Imissed the first 40 minutes on Mon) and I had to laugh.... Right before they put us in suspense over RVD vs Hardy they aired a commercial showing RVD after he beat AJ. Spoiled two of their own matches.

Also had a question.... wondering what everyone thinks of the short clips they throw in during commercials. I like them at first, but am finding them increasingly annoying.

[crownsy]

Ridiculous...they never gave shelton a proper push and now they release him...ridiculous...But him and mickie would be gould signings.


oh come on now. they have tried, for years, 10 to be exact to push shelton to anything above UMC.

At some point, it comes down to a guy not having the "it" factor to main event. Shelton has never connected with the crowd. that's half the job.

He's had multiple gimmicks, and a multitude of air time. He doesn't connect with a live audience enough to ME, and nothing is going to change that.

He's a phenomenal athlete and a decent worker, but he has the charisma of a sponge.

I think he could be a good pickup for TNA though, he'd be lights out in the cage matches, and they could hide his lack of M/E ability there by letting him just be a crazy athlete and showcasing the X-division.

James would be the much better pickup though, she can really go, connects with the fans, and they need a good high energy face. Heck they could just steal the piggy james storyline, and do it better with the REAL beautiful people instead of mccool's lame rip off version

[Moe Hunter]

oh come on now. they have tried, for years, 10 to be exact to push shelton to anything above UMC.
I must have missed the part where Shelton was in WWE in 2000...

At some point, it comes down to a guy not having the "it" factor to main event. Shelton has never connected with the crowd. that's half the job.
If he hadn't busted his wrist after beating Triple H twice in a row in 2004, he would have been on a rocketship to the moon. They just never managed to repeat that Lightning in a Bottle with him.


It's kinda funny - a lot of the guys released this year are mainstays in my RW TEW games - Haas, Benjamin, Burchill, Helms, James...

[alden]

I think shelton would fit in well with tna. He is about spots *although i don't want to use the term spot monkey on for him*. He can wrestle when allowed to but he is more about the omg moment i think. Look at the mitb matches. Most of the big spots involved shelton some how.

the x devision is still a spot devision. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. That is just what it is....shelton would be a good fit in t with other guys who know how to work that style of match.

[TracyBrooksFan]

Yeah there is one region where the possibly comes into. Allthough the KO division can use some strengthening after the loss of Kong, Flash and Roxxi. And what I have seen from Katie Lee she is pretty good in the ring and good looking.

as is Mickie LOL

both Katie and Mickie will be good for the KO division and like u said Mickie is a TNA original was on the first two shows and came back in 2003

[Hyde Hill]

Yep he won't be a Main Eventer in TNA either but a good guy to have around and uppermidcarder or something. He simply lacks the mic skills and the it factor for ME but that is not a problem not everyone can be a ME or have that potential.

[TommyDreamerFan]

as is Mickie LOL

both Katie and Mickie will be good for the KO division and like u said Mickie is a TNA original was on the first two shows and came back in 2003

Wouldn't sign Katie. She didn't accomplish anything in the WWE and the K.O. and TNA roster in general is bloated with guys to "prove themselves"

there is an opening on the KO roster for one person after the absence of Kong, and it should go to Mickie because she'd be the smarter choice.

I wouldn't even touch Benjamin or Paul Burchil, I fail to see what benefit they would bring. The roster has talent, and has name value. They'd be better pickings for a company like ROH.

[dvdWarrior]

I wouldn't even touch Benjamin or Paul Burchil, I fail to see what benefit they would bring. The roster has talent, and has name value. They'd be better pickings for a company like ROH.

I gotta admit, an event headlined by Benjamin vs. Aries would be a DVD I'd go for ASAP. And yes, TNA has too many people already. Not just too many either, but WAY too many.

I think they could use Micky though.

[Hyde Hill]

Wouldn't sign Katie. She didn't accomplish anything in the WWE and the K.O. and TNA roster in general is bloated with guys to "prove themselves"

there is an opening on the KO roster for one person after the absence of Kong, and it should go to Mickie because she'd be the smarter choice.

I wouldn't even touch Benjamin or Paul Burchil, I fail to see what benefit they would bring. The roster has talent, and has name value. They'd be better pickings for a company like ROH.

They lost more then just Kong though, the KO roster is pretty slim atm especially considering LVE can not do anything but stand and be generic pretty. And yes they would need to make room for Shelton, hell they need to make room atm period on the male side of things.

[Instant Classic]

oh come on now. they have tried, for years, 10 to be exact to push shelton to anything above UMC.

At some point, it comes down to a guy not having the "it" factor to main event. Shelton has never connected with the crowd. that's half the job.

He's had multiple gimmicks, and a multitude of air time. He doesn't connect with a live audience enough to ME, and nothing is going to change that.

He's a phenomenal athlete and a decent worker, but he has the charisma of a sponge.

I think he could be a good pickup for TNA though, he'd be lights out in the cage matches, and they could hide his lack of M/E ability there by letting him just be a crazy athlete and showcasing the X-division.

James would be the much better pickup though, she can really go, connects with the fans, and they need a good high energy face. Heck they could just steal the piggy james storyline, and do it better with the REAL beautiful people instead of mccool's lame rip off version

How did they try to push Shelton? He was on an amazing roll with his victory over Triple H years ago but in the typical fashion at the time, Triple H squashed him and killed all of Shelton's momentum and heat. Shelton could have been an instant main eventer for the WWE but Hunter's selfishness and politics killed him off like so many who suffered from Hunter during that time period. There are many others with far less skill and talent than Shelton who were pushed a lot farther. A good booker can make a star out of anyone, and Shelton's only missing tool was mic work. It should have been far too easy to get him to the top and they dropped the ball massively with him.

[fatallylost]

oh come on now. they have tried, for years, 10 to be exact to push shelton to anything above UMC.

At some point, it comes down to a guy not having the "it" factor to main event. Shelton has never connected with the crowd. that's half the job.

He's had multiple gimmicks, and a multitude of air time. He doesn't connect with a live audience enough to ME, and nothing is going to change that.

He's a phenomenal athlete and a decent worker, but he has the charisma of a sponge.

I think he could be a good pickup for TNA though, he'd be lights out in the cage matches, and they could hide his lack of M/E ability there by letting him just be a crazy athlete and showcasing the X-division.

James would be the much better pickup though, she can really go, connects with the fans, and they need a good high energy face. Heck they could just steal the piggy james storyline, and do it better with the REAL beautiful people instead of mccool's lame rip off version

No better gimmick in the world that Mama Benjamin. Yup.

[Self]

Wouldn't sign Katie. She didn't accomplish anything in the WWE and the K.O. and TNA roster in general is bloated with guys to "prove themselves"

Pope was a guy who "didn't accomplish anything in the WWE" either, but he's worked out pretty well for TNA. I'm not saying Katie Lea is of Pope caliber, but then again, maybe she is. I can't tell from her WWE work, because they didn't give her anything to do. I'd be interested in seeing her in another promotion, and I feel the Knockout division needs 'something' to kick it off again.

Although as I posted a few days ago, what I feel they need is a strong babyface, and Mickie fits more naturally in that role.

[ColtCabana]

How did they try to push Shelton? He was on an amazing roll with his victory over Triple H years ago but in the typical fashion at the time, Triple H squashed him and killed all of Shelton's momentum and heat. Shelton could have been an instant main eventer for the WWE but Hunter's selfishness and politics killed him off like so many who suffered from Hunter during that time period. There are many others with far less skill and talent than Shelton who were pushed a lot farther. A good booker can make a star out of anyone, and Shelton's only missing tool was mic work. It should have been far too easy to get him to the top and they dropped the ball massively with him.

It would have been good if Shelton was given a manager to help him in this area. If Shelton does sign for TNA hopefully they put him with Ric Flair who I think could help him alot. A 4 Horseman type group of Flair (the manager), AJ Styles (the star), Benjamin & Haas (the tag team) and Matt Morgan (the muscle) would be something I'd try and do in TNA.

[crownsy]

No better gimmick in the world that Mama Benjamin. Yup.

Right, because no WWE worker has EVER had a terrible gimmick and made it to the M/E later. Everyone who's been popular there had only one gimmick, and it was inherently awesome :rolleyes:

From some of the post here, you would think i called shelton the scum of the earth. All i said was i see the WWE's point because he is NOT M/E material, and rumors say he was getting paid alot (realitivly) because he's a ten year vet in the mid card.

Oh, wait, as has been pointed out, he's technically a 9 and 4 month vet, not counting his time in developmental, my mistake.

but you know what? that's fine, it's not some personal insult to the man as you would think reading the replies.

As the more rational posts above me have pointed out, not everyone has it in them to be a M/e'er. IT takes a crazy combonation of in-ring skill (which SB has) mic and charisma, presence and yes, luck.

Shelton doesn't have what it takes to be a M/E in a big company, and he was getting paid to much to leave him stagnant in the mid card. For a money making endevor, thats an easy cut when the guy is getting older.

Again, I like shelton too, but he's not this M/E talent who vince/WWE screwed over and buired as some of the posts above me are trying to prove. He is what he is, a good UMC. TNA should trim out some of it's dead weight and pick him up.

At best, they hit something with him storyline wise and he slides into their UMC picture nicely. Heck, if you really want to try to push him, throw him in a feud with Kurt once he gets back.

At the worst he can do what he does for the WWE in high risk matches. Destination X has his name all over it :)

He's a good UMC who;s hit his ceiling, nothing wrong with that, and I hope TNA picks him up because i enjoy watching his high spots and his work vs other high fliers.

[jwt13]

does anyone else see team laycool on WWE as a copy of TBP

[TracyBrooksFan]

does anyone else see team laycool on WWE as a copy of TBP

yeah but TBP is so much better

[TommyDreamerFan]

Pope was a guy who "didn't accomplish anything in the WWE" either, but he's worked out pretty well for TNA. I'm not saying Katie Lea is of Pope caliber, but then again, maybe she is. I can't tell from her WWE work, because they didn't give her anything to do. I'd be interested in seeing her in another promotion, and I feel the Knockout division needs 'something' to kick it off again.

Although as I posted a few days ago, what I feel they need is a strong babyface, and Mickie fits more naturally in that role.

Your right, it wasn't like Pope was the focus of the ECW Brand as a major heel for a while... Leading a stable of the New Breed against the beloved ECW Orignals at wrestlemania. All the while showing off great ability and charisma.

Meanwhile Katie Lea, GOD DAMN! SHE ACCOMPANIED PAUL BURCHIL TO THE RING! SIGN HER! SIGN HER!

[The Final Countdown]

Meanwhile Katie Lea, GOD DAMN! SHE ACCOMPANIED PAUL BURCHIL TO THE RING! SIGN HER! SIGN HER!
If that's all you've seen of her, you're in no position to judge what she can do.

[TracyBrooksFan]

If that's all you've seen of her, you're in no position to judge what she can do.

true Katie Lea is very talented

[TommyDreamerFan]

If that's all you've seen of her, you're in no position to judge what she can do.

Me:'Ello Brick Wall!
Brick Wall: 'Ello TDF!
Me: Mighty fine day we havin'! May I join you for tea and biscuit?
Brick: Why you certainly may TDF, you certainly may!
*Canned Clapping*

<.< and that concludes Masterpiece Sarcasm Theater.

My point is, she accomplished nothing on a national scale. I don't see what she could bring to TNA that any other talented Jane Doe from the indy scene could do. Obviously Mickie is the more valuable of the two, I don't know what there is really to debate about.

[Stennick]

Your right, it wasn't like Pope was the focus of the ECW Brand as a major heel for a while... Leading a stable of the New Breed against the beloved ECW Orignals at wrestlemania. All the while showing off great ability and charisma.

Meanwhile Katie Lea, GOD DAMN! SHE ACCOMPANIED PAUL BURCHIL TO THE RING! SIGN HER! SIGN HER!

You realize that Elijah Burke was employed by the WWE for over TWO years. He debut in July of 06 left in November of 08 thats what nearly 2 1/2 years and in those two years he won TWENTY count them TWENTY televised matches. He never won a pay per view match, he never held a title. 29 pay per views were aired while he was part of the WWE roster he was on THREE of those pay per views, he won exactly ZERO of those pay per view matches.

How exactly did Elijah go about displaying great charisma and skill. He was on a television show that was getting roughly the same ratings as TNA. Less than a third of the WWE's audience was tuning into ECW so although he may have been displaying it to the ECW viewing audience that audience was roughly the same size as the TNA audience.

Elijah was skilled and charsimatic yes, I liked the guy even when he was in ECW but the fact is he lost all the time. He was there to make the guys like Dreamer, Balls, Sandman and others look good and that was his only purpose. Once they wrapped the Originals storyline he went on an incredible losing streak.

Its not like the guy was pushed to the moon and featured heavily. During the same time that Burke was on ECW a guy by the name of CM Punk was on the show, in fact the two fueded and Punk won nearly every encounter. Punk was given promo time, etc. If Burke would have gotten the punk push with hype videos, a big winning streak, some pay per view matches, a title win then yes I'd say that Burke was featured heavily however that was anything but the case. The guy was on three pay per views he lost every outing, he never really left ECW where they were doing 1.0's or below for most of the time he was featured on the show and he never got close to winning a championship and only had one signficant storyline the whole time he was there. It takes more than than "leading" a lame duck stable in a throw away match at Wrestlemania to be considered memorable.

As far as Katie Lea goes the reason you would pick her up over jane doe on the indy scene is experiance. You want somebody that has the look, has the skill, and has the experiance of being on television each and every week and performing at the highest possible level. I understand that all you know of her is hanging out with Paul but you have to look past someone's push.

You've watched pro wrestling long enough to know that people are looked over all the time and thought to be talentless only to go on and accomplish big things in one form or another. I bet your an ECW guy look at Raven. The guy was in the WWF as Johnny Polo, he was Flamingo in the WCW his pushes and characters were awful when he went to ECW I'm sure if the internet was in full force back then there would have been people that said "why are they bringing this guy in he's accomplished nothing on the national scene might as well bring in some talented john doe from the indy scene". The same could be said for Elijah his character in the WWF was fairly forgettable his push was to be cannon fodder for the ECW originals on their C Brand. He came to TNA reinvented himself and has gotten legibility over and in my opinion is their top babyface not named Rob Van Dam. Don't look at what someone "has accomplished" look at what they COULD accomplish. Wasn't your boy Dreamer thought of as a pretty boy who couldn't hack it when he first came to ECW? Did they look at what he had accomplished or did they have faith in what he COULD accomplish?

There are countless success stories in pro wrestling where their shouldn't be. Austin, Rock, Goldberg, Foley the list goes on of people who were thought by one person to be expendiable only to go somewhere else and with someone else's vision turn into huge stars. I don't recall anyone debating Mickie or Katie, Mickey is clearly at this point got the edge in nearly every area but I don't remember someone putting a gun to their head saying "you can only pick one".

[Self]

Your right, it wasn't like Pope was the focus of the ECW Brand as a major heel for a while... Leading a stable of the New Breed against the beloved ECW Orignals at wrestlemania. All the while showing off great ability and charisma.

Meanwhile Katie Lea, GOD DAMN! SHE ACCOMPANIED PAUL BURCHIL TO THE RING! SIGN HER! SIGN HER!

Pope admittedly showed more in WWE than Katie Lea did, and the chances she's another Pope are slim... but there's a chance. I like wrestling that takes risks, that tries new things, that gives chances to underutilized or brand new people (NXT is currently my favorite show) rather than trotting out the same tired old characters because they've "achieved on a national level" (although Katie Lea also has the WWE-reject stench on her, as opposed to a fresh new indy girl). So as I said in my original post "I'd be interesting in seeing (Katie Lea) in another promotion". Maybe TNA. Maybe SHIMMER. I don't think anyone said "SIGN HER! SIGN HER!" like she's a sure thing. It's a gamble. I'm just saying I'd be interesting in seeing what she can do off of the leash.

Just my preferences. Not saying what anyone "should" do. Just what I'd personally find more interesting.

EDIT: Big thumbs up to Stennick's post. Long, but good.

[lazorbeak]

How did they try to push Shelton? He was on an amazing roll with his victory over Triple H years ago but in the typical fashion at the time, Triple H squashed him and killed all of Shelton's momentum and heat. Shelton could have been an instant main eventer for the WWE but Hunter's selfishness and politics killed him off like so many who suffered from Hunter during that time period. There are many others with far less skill and talent than Shelton who were pushed a lot farther. A good booker can make a star out of anyone, and Shelton's only missing tool was mic work. It should have been far too easy to get him to the top and they dropped the ball massively with him.

How did they try to push Shelton? Is this a trick question? An 8 month reign as Intercontinental champion? Wins over guys like Chris Jericho, Ric Flair, and Triple H? Seriously you are not describing what happened at all. Shelton was being pushed, beat Triple H several times, beat Flair at Backlash, and was in the middle of a feud with Orton when he put himself on the shelf through injury in a match with Garrison/Lance Cade. Then he came back and immediately started picking up win after win over Chris Jericho and won the IC title, which he would win again 2 more times between 2004 and 2006. After nostalgia re-team with Charlie Haas #1 failed, he went to ECW, where he was still pushed pretty strongly, then he went to Smackdown where won the US Title from Matt Hardy. I'm still not seeing where anyone buried him.

So yeah, while Triple H may have done some damage to a few careers (Jericho, RVD, Booker T), all of those guys ended up winning world titles anyway (or again, in Jericho's case). So it's not the big bad Triple H's fault that Shelton isn't a main eventer, just like it's not Triple H's fault that Shelton's never been comfortable on the mic and struggles to get the fans to care about him as a babyface or a heel.

[Blackman]

Mickie wont leave wrestling she has said music a side job her passion is wrestling so if she comes to TNA it will help the KO division

TNA - one of the only 'good' things about it - doesn't require its talent to be 'all about the wrestling'. So she can have a good movie career there. Then again, WWE induces a certain passion in its talent, which makes them better at what they do then TNA.

[Hyde Hill]

TNA - one of the only 'good' things about it - doesn't require its talent to be 'all about the wrestling'. So she can have a good movie career there. Then again, WWE induces a certain passion in its talent, which makes them better at what they do then TNA.

Well the non nastalgia dudes in TNA have that same passion in TNA imho so I do not know where you are getting this. And TNA gets that passion out of its workers with a lot less political and cutthroat backstage style then the E so in some respects they do it better.

[Instant Classic]

yeah but TBP is so much better

The funny thing is while the E is sort of ripping off TBP I don't think they are aware that TBP are a direct slam on the Divas.

[TommyDreamerFan]

You realize that Elijah Burke was employed by the WWE for over TWO years. He debut in July of 06 left in November of 08 thats what nearly 2 1/2 years and in those two years he won TWENTY count them TWENTY televised matches. He never won a pay per view match, he never held a title. 29 pay per views were aired while he was part of the WWE roster he was on THREE of those pay per views, he won exactly ZERO of those pay per view matches.

How exactly did Elijah go about displaying great charisma and skill. He was on a television show that was getting roughly the same ratings as TNA. Less than a third of the WWE's audience was tuning into ECW so although he may have been displaying it to the ECW viewing audience that audience was roughly the same size as the TNA audience.

Elijah was skilled and charsimatic yes, I liked the guy even when he was in ECW but the fact is he lost all the time. He was there to make the guys like Dreamer, Balls, Sandman and others look good and that was his only purpose. Once they wrapped the Originals storyline he went on an incredible losing streak.

Its not like the guy was pushed to the moon and featured heavily. During the same time that Burke was on ECW a guy by the name of CM Punk was on the show, in fact the two fueded and Punk won nearly every encounter. Punk was given promo time, etc. If Burke would have gotten the punk push with hype videos, a big winning streak, some pay per view matches, a title win then yes I'd say that Burke was featured heavily however that was anything but the case. The guy was on three pay per views he lost every outing, he never really left ECW where they were doing 1.0's or below for most of the time he was featured on the show and he never got close to winning a championship and only had one signficant storyline the whole time he was there. It takes more than than "leading" a lame duck stable in a throw away match at Wrestlemania to be considered memorable.

As far as Katie Lea goes the reason you would pick her up over jane doe on the indy scene is experiance. You want somebody that has the look, has the skill, and has the experiance of being on television each and every week and performing at the highest possible level. I understand that all you know of her is hanging out with Paul but you have to look past someone's push.

You've watched pro wrestling long enough to know that people are looked over all the time and thought to be talentless only to go on and accomplish big things in one form or another. I bet your an ECW guy look at Raven. The guy was in the WWF as Johnny Polo, he was Flamingo in the WCW his pushes and characters were awful when he went to ECW I'm sure if the internet was in full force back then there would have been people that said "why are they bringing this guy in he's accomplished nothing on the national scene might as well bring in some talented john doe from the indy scene". The same could be said for Elijah his character in the WWF was fairly forgettable his push was to be cannon fodder for the ECW originals on their C Brand. He came to TNA reinvented himself and has gotten legibility over and in my opinion is their top babyface not named Rob Van Dam. Don't look at what someone "has accomplished" look at what they COULD accomplish. Wasn't your boy Dreamer thought of as a pretty boy who couldn't hack it when he first came to ECW? Did they look at what he had accomplished or did they have faith in what he COULD accomplish?

There are countless success stories in pro wrestling where their shouldn't be. Austin, Rock, Goldberg, Foley the list goes on of people who were thought by one person to be expendiable only to go somewhere else and with someone else's vision turn into huge stars. I don't recall anyone debating Mickie or Katie, Mickey is clearly at this point got the edge in nearly every area but I don't remember someone putting a gun to their head saying "you can only pick one".

I'm sure you raid Shimmer and find a woman with jsut as much experince too, and they'd work cheaper.

Burke still did a hell of a lot more and showed a lot more potential. I'd like to know where your pulling the "he only won 20 matches" statistic from cause I seriously doubt you commit it to memory.

Gun to your head, choice between Signing Mickie and signing Katie who you going to choose?

[Stennick]

onlineworldofwrestling it has a recap of every televised match he had since debut. If I'm TNA I'd never have that gun to my head I'll hire them both they never have showed restraint in the past hiring people why would they start now and honestly Katie may stick around longer than Micky. Micky's been going a long time right now what five years or so on the WWE's schedule, she's set to release an album she just got put through hell the last year with being mocked on television every week. She's the very definition of burnout meanwhile like you said Katies done not much more than stand around so she's ready to go, fresh, and hungry for the experiance so I go with Katie I'm not saying she's more talented just who would be the better pick up.

[TommyDreamerFan]

onlineworldofwrestling it has a recap of every televised match he had since debut. If I'm TNA I'd never have that gun to my head I'll hire them both they never have showed restraint in the past hiring people why would they start now and honestly Katie may stick around longer than Micky. Micky's been going a long time right now what five years or so on the WWE's schedule, she's set to release an album she just got put through hell the last year with being mocked on television every week. She's the very definition of burnout meanwhile like you said Katies done not much more than stand around so she's ready to go, fresh, and hungry for the experiance so I go with Katie I'm not saying she's more talented just who would be the better pick up.


1. That is both sad and awesome at the same time.

2. Micky's not burned out until she states herself as much.

3. Whoever you could raid from Shimmer would probably be just as talented and fresh, and would work cheaper.

[Stennick]

They wouldn't have the experiance of working television every week. There is something to be said for the experiance AND the fact of tuning in and one of their Knockouts beats Katie Lea its going to mean more to Joe Fan than if they beat some nameless girl we've never heard of.

Thats is how you get more popular right? Or atleast a tried and true method. You have someone you want to get "over" pin someone who's already recognized on a national basis as well as someone who has the experiance to make said win look good on television. To me its a no brainer there is a reason when jobs post in the wanted ad you will read "must have experiance" its an invaluable asset to any company to have people that are good at their job as well as experianced.

As far as Mickey being burned out I don't know if she is or isn't but the risk is there. Has Jeff Hardy ever said he was burned out? Have any pro wrestlers ever said it? No they just burn out, flake out and stop caring about what their doing. I'm not saying Mickey WOULD do this but the risk is there more so with Katie who's hardly done anything as of late. So if me as the employer is comparing the two thats the basis in which I would do it. Mickey's been on the road virtually ever day for the last five years she's come from that hell environment in the WWE where she was asked to virtually carry an entire division for a while and then mocked pubicaly on national t.v about a non existent weight issue. That combine with a music album coming out soon and I give the edge to Katie.

the website is both sad and awesome but to be fair the website has been around longer than Elijah has been a pro wrestler so its not hard to go in there and update it each and every week with a team of guys doing the updates. Kind of neat to pick a wrestler and look back on him. Like Batista and think he started out as D Von's bodyguard.

[The Final Countdown]

Me:'Ello Brick Wall!
Brick Wall: 'Ello TDF!
Me: Mighty fine day we havin'! May I join you for tea and biscuit?
Brick: Why you certainly may TDF, you certainly may!
*Canned Clapping*

<.< and that concludes Masterpiece Sarcasm Theater.

My point is, she accomplished nothing on a national scale. I don't see what she could bring to TNA that any other talented Jane Doe from the indy scene could do. Obviously Mickie is the more valuable of the two, I don't know what there is really to debate about.
I did not say anything about her being a more valuable pickup than Mickie, so I don't know why you even threw that in in response to my post. I definitely think Mickie has more to offer TNA than Katie Lea, so as long as she's still motivated. But it doesn't have to be an either/or proposition; they could easily bring both in. I don't think Katie Lea would be all that expensive. Their KO division is looking a little thin anyway, especially considering they have both singles and tag belts. Are there more talented women in SHIMMER? Sure. But we all know TNA loves to pick up the WWE's cast-offs, and even though Katie Lea didn't really do anything of relevance in WWE, she's still far more well known to the average fan than anyone from SHIMMER.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep and Katie Lea can really go in the ring, its not like they would be picking up Ashley Massaro or someone like that, both not very over or good in the ring.

[TommyDreamerFan]

They wouldn't have the experiance of working television every week. There is something to be said for the experiance AND the fact of tuning in and one of their Knockouts beats Katie Lea its going to mean more to Joe Fan than if they beat some nameless girl we've never heard of.

Thats is how you get more popular right? Or atleast a tried and true method. You have someone you want to get "over" pin someone who's already recognized on a national basis as well as someone who has the experiance to make said win look good on television. To me its a no brainer there is a reason when jobs post in the wanted ad you will read "must have experiance" its an invaluable asset to any company to have people that are good at their job as well as experianced.

As far as Mickey being burned out I don't know if she is or isn't but the risk is there. Has Jeff Hardy ever said he was burned out? Have any pro wrestlers ever said it? No they just burn out, flake out and stop caring about what their doing. I'm not saying Mickey WOULD do this but the risk is there more so with Katie who's hardly done anything as of late. So if me as the employer is comparing the two thats the basis in which I would do it. Mickey's been on the road virtually ever day for the last five years she's come from that hell environment in the WWE where she was asked to virtually carry an entire division for a while and then mocked pubicaly on national t.v about a non existent weight issue. That combine with a music album coming out soon and I give the edge to Katie.

the website is both sad and awesome but to be fair the website has been around longer than Elijah has been a pro wrestler so its not hard to go in there and update it each and every week with a team of guys doing the updates. Kind of neat to pick a wrestler and look back on him. Like Batista and think he started out as D Von's bodyguard.


Gah but I just don't think a win over Katie would elevate any knock out. And in general, I don't want to see every WWE send off in TNA. Their roster is stacked as it is, and even though the women's division is tiny there still are like 2-3 girls that haven't been established. I can understand Mickie coming in, because she has name value, a great look, and talent. I can't reason Katie Lea coming in and essientially have to make a whole brand new character out of her (Did she even have one after they dropped the incest gimmick?)

[stratusfaction]

I think signing Katie Lea would be awesome even more so then signing Mickie.

Katie could come in as an ally and partner to Daffney. They would be great as a team!

[Slagaholic]

Either push Hamada or add Lea/Laree and have more than two storylines in the Knockouts division.

[Hyde Hill]

Nah two storylines is plenty imho. Just have them be good hehe.

[Slagaholic]

Then don't hire new people. Or fire some current workers and then sign them.

[Hyde Hill]

Well the current division is kinda thin with just 10 workers inluding LVE. And with 3 in a stable and 2 in a tag team. Kong Roxxi and Flash all left without being replaced so on the womens side there is some room.

[Tag01]

Mickie James would be worth having because she's recognizable to some casual fans. Katie Burchill might be great but there's already 10 other chicks on the roster that can do the same thing that aren't getting enough air time.

[mystic]

Just a thought on the recent title change With R.V.D. getting the title, here is how I think the p.pv. will shape up. (I have not read spoilers reguarding this so I could be wrong now but I don't know).

I think Abyss takes the rings vs. flair,leading to R.V.D. vs. Abyss vs. Styles vs. a 4th who I can't picture at the moment. (maybe pope because of "Lockdown") R.V.D. will "Sacrifice" the title, Abyss the rings, styles will put up flair in TNA. Styles will beat Abyss giving Styles (more importantly Flair both rings and keeps the title with R.V.D.

Otherwise while I am ok with R.V.D. having the title. (just don't like the "new A.J." as he still seems forced), but I hate the way they did it, as it devaules the pope I think, by saying "you won't win on a p.p.v., but we have no problem taking the title off styles on impact and handing it to someone else).

I would not be shocked that it was a sudden change do to the raw mess over seas.

[Marshall]

Just a thought, Katie Lea would've been perfect with Desmond Wolfe as well as wrestling on the side. Damn timing :rolleyes:

[Hyde Hill]

Mickie James would be worth having because she's recognizable to some casual fans. Katie Burchill might be great but there's already 10 other chicks on the roster that can do the same thing that aren't getting enough air time.

Ehm the entire roster is 10 and the only 2 that haven't gotten airtime lately are Sarita and Taylor. Katie aka Nikita is a very good wrestler in her own right and damn hot as well imho. But between her and one of the Indy bests yeah that is very close. Micky is a no brainer though as she is a TNA original as well hehe.

[Hyde Hill]

Just a thought on the recent title change With R.V.D. getting the title, here is how I think the p.pv. will shape up. (I have not read spoilers reguarding this so I could be wrong now but I don't know).

I think Abyss takes the rings vs. flair,leading to R.V.D. vs. Abyss vs. Styles vs. a 4th who I can't picture at the moment. (maybe pope because of "Lockdown") R.V.D. will "Sacrifice" the title, Abyss the rings, styles will put up flair in TNA. Styles will beat Abyss giving Styles (more importantly Flair both rings and keeps the title with R.V.D.

Otherwise while I am ok with R.V.D. having the title. (just don't like the "new A.J." as he still seems forced), but I hate the way they did it, as it devaules the pope I think, by saying "you won't win on a p.p.v., but we have no problem taking the title off styles on impact and handing it to someone else).

I would not be shocked that it was a sudden change do to the raw mess over seas.

Some sites are reporting that the original plan was for RVD to take the title at Sacrifice, would not surprise me but overall while a hotshot it was a smart and well executed one imho.

[Tag01]

Ehm the entire roster is 10 and the only 2 that haven't gotten airtime lately are Sarita and Taylor. Katie aka Nikita is a very good wrestler in her own right and damn hot as well imho. But between her and one of the Indy bests yeah that is very close. Micky is a no brainer though as she is a TNA original as well hehe.

I'm not saying she wouldn't be useful, I just don't see cutting anyone else's time for her. I'd like more of the likes of Daffney, ODB, Hamada, etc. Although there should be some room for more Knockouts involved once the tag and singles titles seperate.

[Slagaholic]

When was the last time Hogan wasn't in the first segment on Impact? 2009?

Hogan might as well get on his knees and give RVD fellatio.

[Slagaholic]

I love Taz

AJ to RVD: "Are you high right now?"

Taz: "Good chance of that."

[Slagaholic]

Holy crap a clean finish from the Knockouts Division!

[shawn michaels 82]

I love Taz

AJ to RVD: "Are you high right now?"

Taz: "Good chance of that."

Indeed. Pure gold. :D

[jesterx7769]

Holy crap a clean finish from the Knockouts Division!

I wouldn't exactly call that clean but I get what you're going for. The Knockout title has become pretty meaningless to me with all its changes as of late, but man, Velvet sure looks good.

BTW, what is with Moore being the Prince of Punk and having his Glam Rock catch phrase? Are we supposed to think Glam Rock is cool and not totally 80's and gay?

[shawn michaels 82]

I wouldn't exactly call that clean but I get what you're going for. The Knockout title has become pretty meaningless to me with all its changes as of late, but man, Velvet sure looks good.

BTW, what is with Moore being the Prince of Punk and having his Glam Rock catch phrase? Are we supposed to think Glam Rock is cool and not totally 80's and gay?

On the other hand, i always thought Glam Rock has everything to do with Hogan...So in Hogan's TNA it is but normal to see such gayness. :D

[Slagaholic]

I wouldn't exactly call that clean but I get what you're going for. The Knockout title has become pretty meaningless to me with all its changes as of late, but man, Velvet sure looks good.

BTW, what is with Moore being the Prince of Punk and having his Glam Rock catch phrase? Are we supposed to think Glam Rock is cool and not totally 80's and gay?

I don't know but I like it.

[GDE71]

Dilligaf???

[brashleyholland]

Dilligaf???

That's exactly how I feel about Moore, funnily enough...

[Slagaholic]

I absolutely love TNA's backstage segments. It's something new and I like it integrated into the show and not as it's own show.

[Slagaholic]

The show wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. Mostly thanks to Matt Morgan.

[alden]

Dilligaf???

I have been trying forever to figure out what that means....but i keep miss spelling the word. I found what what it means.....wonder if there is more then one meaning......because i am so going to use dilligaf one day ;)

[GDE71]

Do
I
Look
Like
I
Give
A
F

[cmdrsam]

I am advid reader and believer in the book of dilligaf.

[The Celt]

Just a thought, Katie Lea would've been perfect with Desmond Wolfe as well as wrestling on the side. Damn timing :rolleyes:

Final Countdown would agree :)

So, I report and wow, it's looks like two in a row for TNA, 3 counting Lockdown. It seems everyone (well, most people, apparently Amazing Red is Dead, but hey not everyone can be winners) is fitting into a storyline and advanacing nicely which is what I always ask of my wrestling shows; that they give me reason to be invested in most of the characters, just like any other TV show.

Little question for the Big time TNA fans: How are you finding this Matt Morgan angle? People cried rehash when it first came out but it seems like its kinda going over now that it's offering nice plot stuff like tonight with Jesse Neal. Is that the case?

[fatallylost]

I am advid reader and believer in the book of dilligaf.

I rented the movie. It was ok, the car chase was cheesy though.

[The Final Countdown]

Final Countdown would agree :)

So, I report and wow, it's looks like two in a row for TNA, 3 counting Lockdown. It seems everyone (well, most people, apparently Amazing Red is Dead, but hey not everyone can be winners) is fitting into a storyline and advanacing nicely which is what I always ask of my wrestling shows; that they give me reason to be invested in most of the characters, just like any other TV show.
Yes, I certainly do. :D Of course, I also don't book Nigel/Desmond to lose in 3 minute matches...

I didn't think Impact was anything special, but I still enjoyed it far more than Raw. I don't know what it was, but Raw just bored me to tears. Punk and Bourne had a pretty good match, and I enjoyed seeing Ziggler put Hornswaggle to sleep, but other than that, I was just waiting for the show to end. Impact at least managed to catch my interest a few times.

[fatallylost]

Yes, I certainly do. :D Of course, I also don't book Nigel/Desmond to lose in 3 minute matches...

I didn't think Impact was anything special, but I still enjoyed it far more than Raw. I don't know what it was, but Raw just bored me to tears. Punk and Bourne had a pretty good match, and I enjoyed seeing Ziggler put Hornswaggle to sleep, but other than that, I was just waiting for the show to end. Impact at least managed to catch my interest a few times.

Yeah, at one point I looked at the clock, and wondered why we needed a 3 hour Raw for 8 picks.. 3 of which were in one match.

But, I will say, it did beat seeing Flair bleed for the 30th straight show.

[Self]

Anyone else gone to TNAwrestling.com and voted on that ranking system thingy? Obviously it'll be tweaked for storylines but OUR VOTES COUNT! Desmond Wolfe is currently winning the poll (26%) with Jeff Hardy in second (21%). Curiously, Abyss is in last. Why people don't think a blubbering, sycophantic hulkamaniac is world champion material is beyond me.

Didn't watch TNA (or RAW) but still felt qualified to tell them who they should push. I voted Pope, because he's pimpin'.

[ColtCabana]

Anyone else gone to TNAwrestling.com and voted on that ranking system thingy? Obviously it'll be tweaked for storylines but OUR VOTES COUNT! Desmond Wolfe is currently winning the poll (26%) with Jeff Hardy in second (21%). Curiously, Abyss is in last. Why people don't think a blubbering, sycophantic hulkamaniac is world champion material is beyond me.

Didn't watch TNA (or RAW) but still felt qualified to tell them who they should push. I voted Pope, because he's pimpin'.

I voted for Wolfe just because he is Nigel McGuinness! However I think the poll looks very jobberific, couldn't they in this day and age have a poll on their own website. Maybe it's just being picky.

[Slagaholic]

I voted for Wolfe just because he is Nigel McGuinness! However I think the poll looks very jobberific, couldn't they in this day and age have a poll on their own website. Maybe it's just being picky.

I think they're using a poll site to try to keep it getting spammed.

[jesterx7769]

The ranking system better have more to it or I am royally dissapointed. To pitch it as ground breaking and never before done I was expecting something at least interesting, and if it all it is is a fan poll...lame.

Biggest thing I loved were the backstage videos. I thought they were awesome and the production values were awesome. They tried it last week with RVD which I thought was a good segment then this week using Abyss, AJ, Neal/3D, and Flair were all awesome. Hell Flairs was his best promo he's done in TNA, it wasn't an old guy spazzing out, it was vintage Flair and I loved those. I also felt it gives them legit production value since their regular produciton values obviously are very cheap and poor.

As far as Morgan, I don't like what they have done with him as he was a top babyface on the verge of ME to now turning him heel but I like his "We/Us" character and how he talks with it, I think he does it well, but he is above Moore and Neal so hopefully Neal doesnt become a long feud.

Show was alright, nothing really sucked bad which is an improvement, I was hoping the HOF thing would be done by now but can't win them all. It seems like Abyss and Wolfe feuding would do more good.

Don't like how they've booked Pope either, he's getting over since I think most of us like him, but Hey I have an idea, lets have him get injured, that hasnt been done yet! Seriously? Since the new Year he gets injured one week, comes back next week with a cast or w/e, then gets injured the next, his medical bills must be through the roof. Please do something different with him besides getting injured, after all, you did have him beat the champion cleanly.

Also hate how they've used Styles since the new year how he went from legit athlete to weasel whiney useless heel overshadowed by Flair, he's lost on Impact cleanly twice then lost to RVD last week clean after RVD already went through a "war" with Hardy, I read Styles was upset about losing the title like he did since like Hyde said the original plan was for Sacrifice but they moved it up since they felt RVD being champ would boost house shows.

Samoa Joe is back, lets see what they do, I think he is best when he plays the no cares beat people up bad ass. Also after Terry has been squashing people he better not lose to OJ or that will be a total waste

[Self]

A public service announcement, from the Motor City Machineguns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi4G1s2hPZQ

[eayragt]

A public service announcement, from the Motor City Machineguns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi4G1s2hPZQ

Awesome.

[Hyde Hill]

Final Countdown would agree :)

So, I report and wow, it's looks like two in a row for TNA, 3 counting Lockdown. It seems everyone (well, most people, apparently Amazing Red is Dead, but hey not everyone can be winners) is fitting into a storyline and advanacing nicely which is what I always ask of my wrestling shows; that they give me reason to be invested in most of the characters, just like any other TV show.

Little question for the Big time TNA fans: How are you finding this Matt Morgan angle? People cried rehash when it first came out but it seems like its kinda going over now that it's offering nice plot stuff like tonight with Jesse Neal. Is that the case?

I like Morgan as he is now, wish he moves on to the Global Division though after a while as I prefer dedicated tag teams and do not like Terry.

Plz give me back Daniels!

Overall decent show, not great but not bad and really digging the documentary type backstage stuff.

PS The ranking system is not a pure fan vote, you can check out TNA's website for details.

[Slagaholic]

It looks like TNA is really starting to find their groove. That MCMG video rules.

[alden]

A public service announcement, from the Motor City Machineguns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi4G1s2hPZQ

This is what the guns should be. This video was great.....I don't laugh at wrestling alot any more. I did at this one.

[QFresh]

Oh MCMG... Just great... All round great.

[Self]

You know what I'd do with that video? I'd cut it down a bit, throw in a few more clips of MCMG in-ring badassery, and run it as an advert. Maybe that'll draw some casual fans to the show.

In other news, bad rating this week. 0.5. You'd expect it to go up after the crowning of a new babyface champion, at least for a couple of weeks.

[Stennick]

What did their first hour do? Its tough to spin this in any positive direction, RVD as World Champion, they started an hour earlier. The only thing I can think of is they got their usual 1.0 (although I'd hope a slight bump after such a "big night) and then when RAW came on half their audience bailed.

None the less what is the point in being on Monday nights when you have to re air your show on Thursdays because half your audience or more tunes out the minute RAW comes on.

Anyway the show wasn't that bad this week I enjoyed last weeks a bit more. Its been said Matt Morgan saved the show from being dull.

[Self]

I believe it was 0.5 for both hours. RAW was 3 hours though, so Impact had competition for both hours, and it was a 'draft special', so you'd think that if anyone was on the fence, they'd choose RAW to see the draft results. RAW got a 3.1.

This is my opinion, but I don't think there are enough fans of this modern brand of wrestling to keep 2 shows afloat head-to-head. In the 90's, this format was revolutionary. Over a decade later it's same-old-same-old, and now that curiosity is out of the picture, we're getting back to around the usual numbers. In January, I was surprised at how high the ratings were because I didn't think TNA & WWE had all that many unique viewers. I thought I'd been proven wrong. Now I'm not so sure. WWE's rating is down. TNA's rating is down. Wrestling fans are making a choice between the shows, but it doesn't look like many new fans are being generated, or old fans are being lured back.

[SaySo]

This week's Raw, the three hour Draft Special, did hours of 2.6, 3.27 and 3.34 with 4,628,000 viewers

Impact had 739,000 viewers.

[PeterHilton]

To be fair, Raw's two hour numbers wer up from last week ..@ a 3.3.

The bad lead in from last week's volcano show and the spotty advertising AND dealing with Impact led to a piss poor 2.4 or so for the first hour.

But I do see your point..maybe there just aren't enough big venue wrestling fans to support two prime time TV shows.

[Stennick]

Yeah see for RAW to be at 2.6 for that first hour there is no reason for Impact to be at a .5 you can't blame the draft when the first hour numbers were down by a lot for Vince as well.

I thought it would have been smarter for Impact to stay on Thursday nights while they grow their brand and then in maybe a year after a steady incread in viewership start doing Monday night specials ala SNME.

Instead they jumped right onto Monday nights. I get the whole wanting to compete thing but what happens when their numbers dwindle so badly their forced back to Thursday nights? In TEW terms that would damage their momentum badly.

I think their JUST now getting a handle on what their doing but it took them nearly 5 months to get there. If they were on Thursday nights and showing a bit of patience who knows what the scene would be in a year.

For anybody out there screaming since TNA went to Monday nights that the war is back on and that TNA is set to topple the empire anytime now. This should be a wake up call that its just not going to happen anytime soon. With RAW scoring a 2.7 in their first hour thats way down and if anything those missing fans should have given TNA a record first hour. Instead Vince does his lowest number in a while and TNA answers by setting a new record low for their show.

So Vince should be quoting Twain these days "reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

[TracyBrooksFan]

Former WWE Women's and TNA Knockout champion Tara has only a few weeks remaining on her current TNA contract, and hasn't re-signed with the company. Despite nearing the age of 40, she apparently feels she has one more run with WWE. Apparently Tara has tried to make the TNA locker room more like the WWE locker room, which has rubbed the knockouts the wrong way. Dixie Carter has addressed squabbles that have surfaced, but prefers for the knockouts to resolve issues amongst themselves. Some of her complaints about the knockouts include being told what moves she and cannot do, and some of the women working stiff with her. Tara has asked for more time off to focus on her custom car shop and is seeking a raise from TNA.

gerweck.net




Yesterday, we reported that former TNA Knockout Tara had only a few weeks remaining on her contract, and had yet to commit to a new deal with the company. Tara confirmed our story, and posted on her Twitter page that her current contract expires on 5/21.

gerweck

[PeterHilton]

OH NOES!

This will devastate TNA! Especially since there are no recent WWE releases that have more talent and/or are bigger names! Whatever will they do? :rolleyes:

I like Tara..but let's face it...if I were her I wouldn't be in a hurry to re-sign. Her storylines have been a mess. She was most effective as a dominant heel who played an obsessed psycho and in TNA she's been a face who loves spiders. WTF?

Her momentum when she arrived was wasted . Let her go and sign Mickie James and no one will even notice.

[Stennick]

Yeah Tara is nearing if not 40 years old, she's banged up, she has done zero interesting things since coming in. Let her go and sign James.

[PeterHilton]

Tara's gone..and she took some shots at TNA on the way out. Look for her to get a poor send off.

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/137393/Tara-Announces-That-She-Is-Leaving-TNA.htm

Lisa Marie Varon (aka Tara) posted the following blog, announcing that she is leaving TNA…

Hey Gang!!!

It's been a while since I've posted a blog. I'm more into the daily updates. But the following is too long for an update.

It appears that I'm winding down at TNA. Unfortunately some organizations "leak" information to wrestling websites to put their spin on a situation, to make sure they come out in the best light. Not me. I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna put my name on it. And I'm going to stand behind it.

I came to TNA last year because I still had a lot of wrestling left in me. I was paid a fraction of what I thought I deserved. But I wanted to show I was still at the top of my game. Now my contract is up in May. I want a modest pay increase. They don't want to pay me what I think is fair. I have no problem going my own way.

But about 12 hours after the conversation where we didn't agree on pay, unnamed sources claim that I am hard to work with and that I don't give my best effort. My only response is that TNA made an aggressive effort to re-sign me, among other things saying that they want to build the women's division around me. And I think wrestling fans see, both on TV and at live events, that I always give 100%. I take pride in that. Smearing me on the way out the door is an act of second rate character.

I take pride in making my best effort to elevate my own wrestling and the entire TNA Women's Division. If people were rubbed the wrong way in the process, I stand behind my work and my positive intentions.

In closing I will say this. In the few weeks that I have left in TNA, I will be the same wrestler that you have seen for the past ten years. After that, I haven't decided if I will stay in wrestling, or finally make the jump to MMA. I do have a lot of irons in the fire. We'll see where life takes me. But wherever that is, there's gonna be competition, and I'm gonna give it my all.

Thanks For All Your Support!!!

Later Taters, Lisa Marie Varon : )



This pay thing rears it's ugly head again. If TNA does actually beleive they can biuld around the KOs they may want tto try paying a few to stick around.

[Stennick]

I agree the pay thing rears its ugly head but in all do honesty Tara is not the girl to be giving pay increases to. She's on the wrong side of 40, she's always harping about doing MMA, she hasn't been interesting in five years. I agree the KO's need better pay or atleast more equal pay Hemme getting 500,000 doesn't count. That being said I'm quite sure they were blowing smoke up Tara telling her they wanted to build the division around her. I think its clear the division is built around The BP's and Angelina for the most part.

[PeterHilton]

I agree the pay thing rears its ugly head but in all do honesty Tara is not the girl to be giving pay increases to. She's on the wrong side of 40, she's always harping about doing MMA, she hasn't been interesting in five years. I agree the KO's need better pay or atleast more equal pay Hemme getting 500,000 doesn't count. That being said I'm quite sure they were blowing smoke up Tara telling her they wanted to build the division around her. I think its clear the division is built around The BP's and Angelina for the most part.

You're right. Tara's not worth breaking the bank over.

But TNA made this situation worse than it should be by paying Hemme that insane amount. I think it's the combination of hearing Kong's complaints about pay along with this story along with Hemme making her money while doing zilch that makes it an issue worth bringing up.

[SaySo]

Homicide on backstage politcs in TNA

==SOURCE==
Busted Open satellite radio show with Homicide
Hosts: Dave LaGreca & Doug Mortman
Airs Mondays and Wednesdays on Sirius 126 and XM 243 from 2-4 EST
Visit Facebook.com/bustedopen for more information.
==========
-Homicide on his confidence in TNA management: "I have no faith in nobody. It's like somebody telling me every six or eight months they are going to give me a call and nothing happens... I want my money every Monday and we'll see what happens."

-Homicide on who makes the decisions in TNA: "Dixie is the boss. She'll say to bring in this guy or that guy, but I don't know who is the real boss. I don't know if it is Russo, if it is Hogan, or the jabroni security guards... I don't know who is my real boss."

-Homicide on backstage politics: "There is a lot of political B.S. going on. I don't know what's going on. All I know is I am going to go out there, get paid, and take care of my family."

-Homicide on Hulk Hogan's impact on the locker room: "Hogan does come out and talk to the guys. He spoke to me about where I came from, why my name is Homicide and why I have this character, and he loved it... I'm like 'okay, you like it, but do something about it.'"

[Hyde Hill]

You're right. Tara's not worth breaking the bank over.

But TNA made this situation worse than it should be by paying Hemme that insane amount. I think it's the combination of hearing Kong's complaints about pay along with this story along with Hemme making her money while doing zilch that makes it an issue worth bringing up.

Yeah that amount for Hemme is ludicrious and losing Tara is no big deal imho as she didn't really perform imho. We shall see.

On the Homicide comments, yeah TNA really needs to profesionalize backstage and in production etc, it just seems the organisation itself is weak. Hope Bischoff has some plans on that side.

[The Celt]

Even though I'm as big a Homicide as you'll find, do take Homicide's stuff with a grain of salt: He's not so much referring to TNA right at this exact moment as he is referring to how he's felt for like the past two years.

My boy Homicide has been sick of TNA for about a year and a bit now. He's definitely feels he could be doing more than he is now, in fact I hope he believe in himself that he could be a major player. And I know for a fact that if he feels he can't be a major player then he feels why isn't ripping up the midcard as LAX with Hernandez. Considering the WWE made offers to the two of them because of how over LAX was it must be extremely frustrating not to be even doing that now.

Homicide has actually asked for his release a bunch of times from TNA but they just won't give it to him, which sucks because it puts him in a vicious circle where he hates where he works thus his works suffers thus others don't want him as much.

Personally I think if he doesn't even want to be in TNA let him go. I'd be going crazy if he was back in RoH, that would be enormous fun. If he made to the WWE that'd be alright. He'd never get to be a gritter as he could be but I dunno, a tag team with Low Ki/Senshi/Kaval would be off the hook.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah I do hope they reunite LAX as they are better together then individually.

[The Final Countdown]

Why would they refuse to release Homicide, but cut Daniels loose? Homicide's been going nowhere for quite some time, while Daniels main evented multiple PPVs at the end of last year. Mind boggling.

Oh well; thanks for giving us the Fallen Angel back, Dixie. Feel free to send The Notorious 187 back as soon as you're done jobbing him out to the jacked up Brit who can't even throw a boot without tripping over his own feet. :)

[Hyde Hill]

refusing to release cide happened before Bisch and Hogan so does not really have bearing on Daniels to be fair. If I remember correctly cide's contract was also going to be up around that time so he got the X Division run and some more attention and then he resigned.

[Fleisch]

I still firmly believe TNA should NEVER have moved to Mondays. The only thing moving to mondays has done is, well nothing! They haven't gained more fans (in fact I'd say judging from this weeks Impact, they were losing them) and I know that most of the people I know who loved TNA before, don't bother watching anymore because as they say "TNA isn't an alternative to WWE anymore." The Monday night wars are over, never to be repeated so why even try? Lets have something different, where 2 promotions concentrate on their own product and forget the other exists. This whole "re-igniting the Monday Night Wars" is only going to spell the end for TNA in the long run, which is something I really don't want to see. Putting the belt on RVD on FREE Tv is a stupid mistake that WCW were doing under Vince Russo - why give away a title win like that for free when people would have bought a PPV to see RVD v Styles for the title, it makes no sense! Who the hell is going to buy the PPV for the re-match (if there even is one)? No one because they've seen the belt change to the "face" for free so why bother paying to see him defend it? It's like TNA is being run from a WCW "How Not To Book" book!

[Slagaholic]

TNA makes more money from TV than PPV. If anything i think getting rid of the PPVs all-together and having huge quarterly shows on Spike TV would be much better for them.

[Stennick]

TNA makes more money from TV than PPV. If anything i think getting rid of the PPVs all-together and having huge quarterly shows on Spike TV would be much better for them.

I agree with you that their PPV buys are dismal however I'm not sure TNA is making any money at all off the Spike deal or very little. Flat out TNA's NOT making money they to the best of my knowledge have never made a profit in the 8 years they have been around. Not one month have they made a profit.

The problem with cutting out PPV's is if your going to act like a big dog you gotta play like a big dog. You cut out PPV's now when do you reintroduce them? When your bigger? People who get accustomed to not paying for something don't like to pay for it. So two years from now they build up a large fan base thats not used to them having to pay to watch TNA and then they smack them with a 40 dollar a month charge to watch a show they were getting essentially for free on Spike every three months? It won't happen and so it will stunt their growth.

When you are not the number one product in your business genre the only way to get there is to spend the money to get there. I'm not saying TNA should go broke trying to become number one. What I'm saying is they will never get there if they don't spend the money and a lot of times take a loss. The key is to be smart with your losses and if you know your going to take a hit in one area try to make up for it in another like oh I don't know trim a bloated roster or any number of other cost cutting measures. Stop over paying for WWE guys that aren't growing your brand the slightest bit.

However after six years of pay per views you can't just say "well that didn't work so we're going to give you a "free" pay per view every three months and then in three years when you guys get used to everything we do being free we're going to start charging for it".

TNA should move back to Thursday nights. Hell its pro wrestling have Hulk Hogan or Eric Bischoff come out and say that somebody up north paid Spike a lot of money to move them back to Thursday nights. As far as their concerned their done going to war with people that won't stand up and fight. Instead their going to stay on Thursday nights and make Thursday nights the night everybody watches pro wrestling.

That way you save SOME face and still are able to move back to Thursday nights.

[Hyde Hill]

Lol they have been in the black for more then a year now Stennick according to most reports, and yes their main source of revenue is television rights fees and TNA itself does not pay 100 percent for a lot of the "written" talent and the rest are on a form of ppa where they get payed by appearance and can work for smaller companies but not for the E. The main place they need to invest is marketing which they seem to fail at.

[PeterHilton]

Yeah, Dixie has said for a little over a year they've been making a profit, especially once all the overseas market deals kicked in.

Never quite clear if that meant they made up for all their early losses, but that's neither here nor there...Dixie's dad wrote all that off.

TNA makes it's money in TV deals, but it says something that you can't write your shows well enough to get your dedicated fanbase to pay a portion of what the E charges to see your big event shows.

Long term they need to get that number up.

And Hyde is right about getting their name out there..they need to improve on that as well.

[CQI13]

Thing is, they're not that good for people to want to spend money on both companies. Ideally, I'd cut back on the number of PPVs, like what WWE had before (big 4 and some specials). That way they're still paying for the matches, just not as many.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah but that is a gamble given as has been argued before the tendancy of people not the pay for what used to be free. Doing part pay and part free might be a good intermediate solution like CQ suggested, we shall see.

[PeterHilton]

Yeah but that is a gamble given as has been argued before the tendancy of people not the pay for what used to be free. Doing part pay and part free might be a good intermediate solution like CQ suggested, we shall see.

NWA/WCW first did Clash of the Champions free and they were amazing cards and enormously successful in building fans.

But once the PPV business picked up, the Clashes becamse worse and worse because WCW had no intention of giving away PPV quality matches for free. But the fanbase was there so fans DID shell out the money.

So the transition is possible.

[PeterHilton]

One of my favorite columns on the net is 411mania's Hamilton Ave News Journal (smartest column out there..and not wrestling geek "smart" but thoughtful, business related smart)...loved this bit from this week's Q&A portion of the column (i'll bold the comment from the readers).

Sticking with TNA, there was great concern over their ability to build brand awareness. Kimmy starts us off:

"Does TNA know how to build brand awareness?"

No. Spike TV doesn't either, sadly.

That would appear to be true considering how many brand changes Spike has gone through. Of course, Mr. Bischoff has recognized TNA's issues with brand awareness in the past. As covered in Issue #73 of the Journal in February 2009:

{quote from a Bischoof interview}Neither one of us [Hulk Hogan or I] were interested in TNA. It's a small organisation that doesn't have very much vision. The best way to describe it is like WWE-lite. There was nothing exciting there for Hulk or myself.

Although Dixie Carter is a nice woman, and I'm sure very intelligent, the rest of the people in senior management there are not the sort of people we would like to work with.

Mr. Bischoff was later asked if TNA approached him to do some work for them. His response was equally tepid:

Sure they have.

But look, the people that are involved in the creative process and vision for TNA are people that couldn't get a job in WWE or shouldn't have had a job in WCW.

There's no vision for that company.

They are people who have never been to the dance. They've never been a part, really, of any of the decision-making processes that led to the success of the industry.

Some of them happen to have been working there while other people did it, but have never really done it for themselves. They just don't have the feel for it.

So that's the reason we wouldn't want to be there.

For me to sit down and say "listen guys, this is what you have to do to be successful" would be like telling a three-year-old how to fly an aeroplane. You can try all you want, they're never going to get it.

Whatever Mr. Bischoff's personal opinions of the people who work there are, there is one point that remains clear: TNA lacks vision. They have yet to describe a unique value proposition for the product and truly define it different from all else that is available. When listening to Ms. Carter, she often gives conflicting messages of what TNA does and who it markets to. This lack of understanding has led to confusion and audience degradation and re-creation in the past.

Now the question is with Eric Bischoff at the helm, what is TNA's unique value proposition? Mr. Bischoff felt it was lacking so he should be able to articulate it now. MacDollarz believes they have all the tools, just need one more thing:

There's no reason TNA shouldn't be getting very high 1s and 2's. Please, they have literally every mainstream star in the business not under WWE contract.

I work for a cable company and in 4 years I've dealt with a TNA PPV order 2 times. Real ****... Their numbers are disgusting.

They need to advertise 20x harder.

Guest#9370 of why this has not come to be:

Part of this has been discussed - the lack of urgency, vision, and follow-through.

It can also be attributed to budget. Even if they persuade Spike to give them some ad time for free or for a significant discount, that would only reach people who watch Spike.

Nobody else has an incentive to cut them a deal though. I assume they have the people in-house to create an ad, but there is still the major expense of air time.

Wrestling seems to have a high payroll, as so many people are involved backstage. TNA's yearly revenues are about $50 million. I'd be surprised if their net profit margin is 5% or more. So they probably have less than $2.5 million to play with, if my assumptions are true.

This does not exempt them from properly advertising though. This means that making correct choices are even more important.

They must limit their advertising to getting the most impact per dollar. An expensive campaign that only reaches a small number of active wrestling fans is a waste. WWE can afford that, TNA cannot.

In spite of my complaints about how TNA has handled or ignored business, what they have done on YouTube is a good start. The Reader's Digest version of matches, a weekly round table, and interview segments is a low cost way to begin.

Unfortunately, that primarily reaches the IWC. The rest of the wrestling audience still needs to know about TNA.

And that is their biggest problem: people outside of this community do not know they exist. You said it above, TNA is not putting their advertising dollars (among other dollars) in the right place to build brand awareness.

Bischoff's quotes about lack of vision or a direction (creating a unique value proposition) are interesting and really true. To this day Dixie never seems to articulate what she wants TNA to be and what kind of fans she's trying to attract.

The product is headed in a good direction though..so that's a start. Still not sure what is truly unique about it.

The second part about advertising is what caught my attention though, especially with the last few comments in this thread. Beyond going viral, what else can TNA do to market to fans outside of their own 'captured' audience? Thoughts?

[Fleisch]

TNA makes more money from TV than PPV. If anything i think getting rid of the PPVs all-together and having huge quarterly shows on Spike TV would be much better for them.

In that case I take back the last bit. I didn't realise they were making more from TV.

[Self]

I'm far from an expert when it comes to advertising, but if I were running TNA I'd be tempted to dump a Quarter or a Third of my roster and put that money into advertising. Not adverts on Spike either. Different stations. Different places. This is expensive, but (and I have no idea of any numbers involved here, but it's an assumption) it could be far more profitable than paying to have guys like Sean Waltman on your roster. Not to pick on Waltman. First name that came to mind.

The sad part is, they advertised January hard and got a good number from it... but it slipped through their fingers with shows that didn't keep that new audience. There's no point in spending money on advertising if you don't have a good show. That would be like throwing money away.

[Hyde Hill]

One of my favorite columns on the net is 411mania's Hamilton Ave News Journal (smartest column out there..and not wrestling geek "smart" but thoughtful, business related smart)...loved this bit from this week's Q&A portion of the column (i'll bold the comment from the readers).



Bischoff's quotes about lack of vision or a direction (creating a unique value proposition) are interesting and really true. To this day Dixie never seems to articulate what she wants TNA to be and what kind of fans she's trying to attract.

The product is headed in a good direction though..so that's a start. Still not sure what is truly unique about it.

The second part about advertising is what caught my attention though, especially with the last few comments in this thread. Beyond going viral, what else can TNA do to market to fans outside of their own 'captured' audience? Thoughts?

Yeah I love that collumn as well and also read it. TNA really needs to work on all three key brand groups Brand Awereness, Brand Identity/ Perception and Brand Loyalty/Immersion/engagement. The early move to Monday is mainly as a way to increase awereness in a relativly cheap way, by going to where the biggest audience is and being more talked about in mainstream and non mainstream media by going up against the big dog.

People on these boards sometimes forget how little people actually know TNA even exists. One example is when Christian came back to WWE a lot of people asked him where he had been the last couple of years. As in 8 out of 10 fans a lot.

At the moment they are working on creating awereness but are not succeeding at the same time in giving out a good and clear identity and make those that become aware customers.

If you like Hamilton you should also check out Bill Behren's podcast on who is slamming who. He often discusses similar topics and using facts etc to back it up, plus he has inside knowledge of TNA, having worked there and being the agent for many current, including AJ, and past TNA talent.

[Hyde Hill]

NWA/WCW first did Clash of the Champions free and they were amazing cards and enormously successful in building fans.

But once the PPV business picked up, the Clashes becamse worse and worse because WCW had no intention of giving away PPV quality matches for free. But the fanbase was there so fans DID shell out the money.

So the transition is possible.

Yeah I am inclined to feel more like that, but others like Remi and Stennick have argued the other side of the coin as well and very well, so its a gamble either way. In the case of TNA I would take it though. That is why I am so curious as to when their ppv contracts elapse and their contract with Universal as it pertains to taking the show on the road. Can not find that info anywhere

[PeterHilton]

If you like Hamilton you should also check out Bill Behren's podcast on who is slamming who. He often discusses similar topics and using facts etc to back it up, plus he has inside knowledge of TNA, having worked there and being the agent for many current, including AJ, and past TNA talent.

link? i'd definitely check it out.

And for the record, love this board because I get to talk to guys like you, stennick, remi, Self..etc..who are wrestling fans without being..y'know..nut jobs.

Kudos to the Dog Pound. :)

[Hyde Hill]

link? i'd definitely check it out.

And for the record, love this board because I get to talk to guys like you, stennick, remi, Self..etc..who are wrestling fans without being..y'know..nut jobs.

Kudos to the Dog Pound. :)

Thanks mate, and yep can not love the pound enough for its high level of educated smart marks as I like to call em.

Link to who is slamming who: http://whosslammingwho.podomatic.com/

Its called inside the Behren's bubble, some of his earlier ones are great as well, its weekly plus you can listen to Cornette's weakly rant about everything and anything on the same site.

[TracyBrooksFan]

TNA Wrestling Effective immediately, TNA Wrestling has elected to terminate the services of Todd Clem p/k/a Bubba the Love Sponge.

http://www.facebook.com/tnawrestling/posts/113395178699970

[Slagaholic]

As if more proof was needed that TNA moving to monday nights was a terrible decision. The replay got a .69 beating the "live" showing by .19.

[TracyBrooksFan]

As if more proof was needed that TNA moving to monday nights was a terrible decision. The replay got a .69 beating the "live" showing by .19.

well liek i said when TNA is Live they get higher ratings yes i know 0.8 or 0.9 may not seem high but i damn sure better then 0.5 which was this past weeks show which was TAPED.

[Slagaholic]

They were consistently getting above a 1 every week on Thursdays. This move to Mondays has not caused them to gain viewers at all. The whole decision in and of itself was very amateurish. The move meant that they were asking wrestling fans to pick between them and WWE's #1 show every week. That's not going to happen. I'm fine with the TNA product and the direction it's heading. But you can't make the big move while you're still fiddling with the formula. Then you start making desperation moves like the hotshotting of RVD.

If they go live every week, it may get better; however, to me that seems like an anomaly.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah but like was stated before by me and sources within TNA the move to mondays was mainly used as a relaitvly cheap way to increase brand awereness due to the "war" publicity and the fact that most of the existing wrestling audience is tuned in on Monday around that time, with added on the factor of Spike and with that the whole Viacom family wanting to put a dent in USA's numbers. The fact that said brand awereness has not increased in brand engagement due to in part a lack of brand identity can be put at TNA's doorstep, but it seems that given the budget and quality and size of the organisation atm within TNA they do not have the capacity to do all three unfortunatly. They chose to focus on awereness and that is a tactical choice.

Edit: Yeah Bubba is gone!!!!!! Too bad he was ever there.

[SaySo]

NoDQ.com > TNA > BTLS staff member calls TNA fans "cowardly c*nts"
Posted by Mark Virginia on 05/01/2010 at 01:48 PM

Bubba The Love Sponge's staff member Brent Hatley posted some harsh comments on Twitter (BTLSRadio) in response to TNA fans that don't like Bubba:

"Shut the f*** up, mark...Maybe you should get your GED and stop worrying about men in tights."

"You're entire life is pointless. Go back to screwing your sister and watching TNA you white trash simpleton."

"Bubba Army, you guys are simply the best. Nobody could ask for better fans. TNA fans are nothing but a bunch of little cowardly ****s."

"You love oiled up men in tights. You are a douche nozzle that thinks wrestling is real. Get a f***ing life. Go away."

--found this in another forum below--

@chargermike41 Bubba said nothing racist. This is the pussification of America. Stop being so overly PC. That's not what the US is..Brent

@crazyguy30 What are you going to do about it little girl?? Brent

Cow and Bubba worked Kong. TNA decided to take mark out to Kong. **** TNA and their retarded fans. Without Bubba or Cow they're done. Brent

-------

So BTLS got a job with TNA because of Hogan? Actually why did he get a job with TNA in the first place?

[The Final Countdown]

Without Bubba or Cow they're done.
:D

Yep, I'm sure that if there were a "Destruction of TNA" DVD, the firing of BTLS will be pointed to as the beginning of the end.

[Hyde Hill]

One of the worst moves ever bringing him in and one of the best to let him go, and yeah blame it on Hogan. A mediocre at best non entity shock jock had no place in TNA.

[PeterHilton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnBlG-hmf3I&feature=player_embedded

These comments on radio must've been the last straw.

[jwt13]

Bubbas Army is after me on twitter lol

[jwt13]

Anyone who has a twitter joing TheTNAarmy on twitter we will show Bubba whos boss;) (PS I'm really bored today)

[Ghoul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnBlG-hmf3I&feature=player_embedded

These comments on radio must've been the last straw.

wow, what a rascist jerk. glad he got fired. the iron sheik has some cool comments for bubba^^

[SaySo]

The link below is from reportedly Iron Sheik directed at Bubba the Love Sponge. Warning, language isn't PG.

http://i44.tinypic.com/11smbua.jpg

[Trashbear]

Gotta love that Sheiky Baby. "Ho Dick Ass" is an all-time insult.

[fatallylost]

Oh man... I sure hope Sheik doesn't humble Bubba.

[The Celt]

Man...Iron Shiek is like the spirit/soul of wrestling fans worldwide made man. God bless his crazy, crazy ass.

[Remianen]

I agree the pay thing rears its ugly head but in all do honesty Tara is not the girl to be giving pay increases to. She's on the wrong side of 40, she's always harping about doing MMA, she hasn't been interesting in five years. I agree the KO's need better pay or atleast more equal pay Hemme getting 500,000 doesn't count. That being said I'm quite sure they were blowing smoke up Tara telling her they wanted to build the division around her. I think its clear the division is built around The BP's and Angelina for the most part.

Yeah that amount for Hemme is ludicrious and losing Tara is no big deal imho as she didn't really perform imho. We shall see.

Lemme ask you TEW players something.

If Tara "wasn't interesting", who's fault is that? You're talking about people who are the card placement equivalent of freakin' Happy Elwood.

I like Tara..but let's face it...if I were her I wouldn't be in a hurry to re-sign. Her storylines have been a mess. She was most effective as a dominant heel who played an obsessed psycho and in TNA she's been a face who loves spiders. WTF?

Her momentum when she arrived was wasted . Let her go and sign Mickie James and no one will even notice.

Not surprisingly, this guy gets it.

Lisa Varon is (or would be) an excellent worker in a senior/living legend type of role. She's been there and done that and has a wealth of experience to draw on. None of the Knockouts have ever worked front & center on the biggest stage in the business. What's more, she's been taking care of her post-wrestling life almost since the beginning (see: Fat Tony's and now Widow Customs), kinda like Trish and Nora did. None of those girls has done that. Onscreen, when booked to her strengths, she can still outperform the T&A remnants of the Knockouts.

But no, because she's nearing 40 (OMG 40! She's almost Social Security age! :rolleyes:) and has been booked poorly, you think she should go. Despite the fact that she's the only Knockout with "street cred" with the audience TNA's trying to siphon, can still go, and has the experience necessary to possibly bring up the green and limited in the ring division, you let her go. Yeah, I suppose having your backstage interviewer be the highest paid "Knockout" is an awesome idea! I swear, TNA's management should go to work for Goldman Sachs. I bet the job would pay better, for the same logic.

[Hyde Hill]

I am not bashing Tara at all as a talent, she just did not do it for me and off course that is also for a large part due to booking, but also in the matches and time she got for matches I was generally not impressed. Not bad but I had hoped for more. I was really happy when she came in and had hoped they would use her well and she would give her all and due to the fact that in general in TNA performers are allowed to do more in the ring that she would show that. Unfortunately neither happened.

[Remianen]

I am not bashing Tara at all as a talent, she just did not do it for me and off course that is also for a large part due to booking, but also in the matches and time she got for matches I was generally not impressed. Not bad but I had hoped for more. I was really happy when she came in and had hoped they would use her well and she would give her all and due to the fact that in general in TNA performers are allowed to do more in the ring that she would show that. Unfortunately neither happened.

Takes two to tango. How good would your team be at so...erm futbol, if your goalie was a donkey? Tara-Kong did well, I thought. Being allowed to do more doesn't automatically mean you do so. No more than having a gun means you should start shooting people. If your opponent is green or less than ideally capable, you can't start popping off big moves if they can't protect you. If you're playing (insert sport here) with a toddler, you don't play at the best of your ability, you tone it down so the toddler can actually participate (or have a chance of participating).

Good workers tend to have good matches together. A good worker with a bad or less skilled worker needs to work harder to make that match "good" and sometimes, no matter how hard you work, you just can't pull it off. Could Kurt Angle get a good match out of Rob Terry? I don't think so, for the same reason Tara couldn't produce that with Velvet or Madison (or even Angelina. She's improved but she's still not all that good).

[BHK1978]

Good workers tend to have good matches together. A good worker with a bad or less skilled worker needs to work harder to make that match "good" and sometimes, no matter how hard you work, you just can't pull it off. Could Kurt Angle get a good match out of Rob Terry? I don't think so, for the same reason Tara couldn't produce that with Velvet or Madison (or even Angelina. She's improved but she's still not all that good).

Why did you have to write this line? Now I know some how some way this will lead to Angle vs. Terry.:eek:

With Velvet, I really could care less if she could wrestle a lick. What she lacks in talent she more than makes up for in other areas.:D

[TakerNGN74]

I hate Rob Terry with a passion look at it this way WWE has a wellness policy but TNA no they just put some guy on TV who looks like he is on Roids and from the looks of his body I wouldn't be surprised if he was.

[The Bus]

I'm with Remi on the Tara/Victoria/Lisa Marie Varon matter. She should be the cornerstone of the KO division because of popularity and more so her skills to help other in the ring.

In what areas is she "lacking"? Well she's older than the other KO's and doesn't have those oversized implants. Maybe that is enough to dislike her...

[Hyde Hill]

Takes two to tango. How good would your team be at so...erm futbol, if your goalie was a donkey? Tara-Kong did well, I thought. Being allowed to do more doesn't automatically mean you do so. No more than having a gun means you should start shooting people. If your opponent is green or less than ideally capable, you can't start popping off big moves if they can't protect you. If you're playing (insert sport here) with a toddler, you don't play at the best of your ability, you tone it down so the toddler can actually participate (or have a chance of participating).

Good workers tend to have good matches together. A good worker with a bad or less skilled worker needs to work harder to make that match "good" and sometimes, no matter how hard you work, you just can't pull it off. Could Kurt Angle get a good match out of Rob Terry? I don't think so, for the same reason Tara couldn't produce that with Velvet or Madison (or even Angelina. She's improved but she's still not all that good).

Then why did Kim, Kong, Wilde, Sarita, Daffney etc have in my view better matches with the BP? And why did she have better matches against worse wrestlers in the E? Its not about look for me at all when it comes to her, I had just hoped for more from both a booking and in ring standpoint. Neither happened and it is a shame. Not knocking her talent just her run. Maybe age and injuries etc had effected her to a point where her in ring skills had become less.

[Trashbear]

Don't you guys know that Lisa Varon is just Lance Storm in a wig?

[cappyboy]

Don't you guys know that Lisa Varon is just Lance Storm in a wig?

Interesting theory, Trashbear. I'm guessing this is supposed to be to you as Vampiro being "the extra pasty mime who speaks" or my insistence that Mr Anderson is a secret Holly cousin is to me. Or am I trying to assign a statement of X-Pac heat where it doesn't belong just because it sounds like one?

[Trashbear]

Interesting theory, Trashbear. I'm guessing this is supposed to be to you as Vampiro being "the extra pasty mime who speaks" or my insistence that Mr Anderson is a secret Holly cousin is to me. Or am I trying to assign a statement of X-Pac heat where it doesn't belong just because it sounds like one?

No, this a reference to a story that Lance Storm told on his website a few years ago about how a few of the boys joked that Lance and Victoria look like brother and sister. They started to play it up like they were actually related, and then they started doing the old "never in the same place at the same time" thing so they could try and play jokes on people about them actually being the same person.

No X-Pac heat from me!

[cappyboy]

No, this a reference to a story that Lance Storm told on his website a few years ago about how a few of the boys joked that Lance and Victoria look like brother and sister. They started to play it up like they were actually related, and then they started doing the old "never in the same place at the same time" thing so they could try and play jokes on people about them actually being the same person.

No X-Pac heat from me!

LOL. Okay. I don't go to talent blogs or websites often enough to have ever heard this. It's kind of odd thinking of Lance Storm having this kind of sense of humor. Still, it does sound like an awesome gag.

[jwt13]

There is now a Anti Bubba Army on Twitter that I created we need more followers please follow we have 16 so far but I just made it last night

[Remianen]

With Velvet, I really could care less if she could wrestle a lick. What she lacks in talent she more than makes up for in other areas.:D

And that's okay. In fact, that means you are their target audience. The problem I have is that when the division started, they were almost the opposite. They were the antithesis of the WWE Diva. Now, they're a cheap copy of the divas. Their top four workers are all plastic looking bottle blondes who would not look out of place on RAW or Smackdown.

Then why did Kim, Kong, Wilde, Sarita, Daffney etc have in my view better matches with the BP? And why did she have better matches against worse wrestlers in the E? Its not about look for me at all when it comes to her, I had just hoped for more from both a booking and in ring standpoint. Neither happened and it is a shame. Not knocking her talent just her run. Maybe age and injuries etc had effected her to a point where her in ring skills had become less.

Your view would probably differ from mine. And with you being a huge TNA fan (not an insult, just an observation), their original Knockouts style was very spot-heavy. Lisa can't do spot-heavy very well and Kong isn't allowed to (though she most definitely can) due to character. Thus, a spot monkey's dream would tend to fit TNA's basic style, which is relatively easy for a limited worker to do. I think if they had given her a more mat focused style to contrast with the flippity floppity of the rest of the division, it would've helped.

But I'm sincerely curious Hyde. Name some "good" matches the Beautiful People were in.

[Self]

I really enjoyed the 6-man tag against ODB, Sarita & Taylor Wilde on... um... That PPV with the Joe/AJ/Daniels three-way. Technically not fantastic I guess, but it floated my boat.

You're right though. The Knockouts have gone away from the original 'variety pack' of girls, and that's a shame. The Beautiful People were a fun little team, but nothing to build a division around.

[Linsolv]

Now, I hate to disagree with a women's expert like Remi, but Velvet's relatively special IMO. She's more attractive than any of the WWE Divas, with the possible exception of Beth, and that's because I have a strange attraction to any woman who could break me in half.

But when it comes to the rest of the Beautiful People, not really. And their good women, they don't want to focus on. Ayoko's been on the show, what, once in the last few months? Who's Sarita again? Daffney seems to be their best "main event" knockout, but that's just 1.

[Slagaholic]

It looks like Hamada is getting booked again, she's been doing house shows.

[Hyde Hill]

And that's okay. In fact, that means you are their target audience. The problem I have is that when the division started, they were almost the opposite. They were the antithesis of the WWE Diva. Now, they're a cheap copy of the divas. Their top four workers are all plastic looking bottle blondes who would not look out of place on RAW or Smackdown.



Your view would probably differ from mine. And with you being a huge TNA fan (not an insult, just an observation), their original Knockouts style was very spot-heavy. Lisa can't do spot-heavy very well and Kong isn't allowed to (though she most definitely can) due to character. Thus, a spot monkey's dream would tend to fit TNA's basic style, which is relatively easy for a limited worker to do. I think if they had given her a more mat focused style to contrast with the flippity floppity of the rest of the division, it would've helped.

But I'm sincerely curious Hyde. Name some "good" matches the Beautiful People were in.

More as in less bad, anyways I agree that if they let LMV be a more mat wrestling orientated style and more strong style it would have really helped. Just saying I expected more from her run and it did not deliver in my view. Not saying that it was her fault but also not saying it was entirely the booking teams fault. Probably a lot more the creative and ra team but as we do not know the details we shall never know.

And when it pertains to spots yes I like spots, but I do not like spot monkey's. Red being the best example and that is just looking at his in ring style.

Edit: Again not knocking Lisa and you are the resident female expert just observing it was a disappointing run and it unfortunately did not work out as I and many others had hoped. Sometimes this happens.

[Moe Hunter]

No, this a reference to a story that Lance Storm told on his website a few years ago about how a few of the boys joked that Lance and Victoria look like brother and sister. They started to play it up like they were actually related, and then they started doing the old "never in the same place at the same time" thing so they could try and play jokes on people about them actually being the same person.

No X-Pac heat from me!

And they both got given dancing gimmicks!

[The Celt]

TNA have announced that whoever wins the Top 10 Contenders vote will get a title shot this Monday; thing is...

There's literally less than a thousands votes between the two leaders: Jeff Hardy in 2nd and surprise surprise

Desmond

"McLariat"

Wolfe

Go vote for McLariat ok?

[The Final Countdown]

I'd go and vote for Nigel, but I'm sure if he gets voted in, he'll just lose in 5 minutes anyway.

Daniel Bryan would lose in 15 seconds, but that's neither here nor there.

[Hyde Hill]

TNA have announced that whoever wins the Top 10 Contenders vote will get a title shot this Monday; thing is...

There's literally less than a thousands votes between the two leaders: Jeff Hardy in 2nd and surprise surprise

Desmond

"McLariat"

Wolfe

Go vote for McLariat ok?

Not really a big surprise given TNA's large UK fanbase, The fact that he is a heel, has not faced RVD one on one and is an IWC darling who tend to vote more and earlier. Same with Abyss just having 2 percent as he is the no3 babyface for marks after RVD and Hardy, so with Hardy there why vote Abyss?

[The Celt]

Well other faces like Kurt Angle, The Pope and Jarrett are also in the running, so I'm not sure if that logical quite works out.

[The Final Countdown]

I thought Angle was taking time off? Why would he be in the poll?

[Hyde Hill]

Well other faces like Kurt Angle, The Pope and Jarrett are also in the running, so I'm not sure if that logical quite works out.

Angle less votes because of the time off and also bigger star then Abyss, Pope is Pope! And was recent no1 contender, Jarrett gets sympathy votes. I just would not read to much into Abyss not getting that many votes as some online have done.

[stratusfaction]

Back to the Knockouts. I really didn't expect much from Tara/Victoria/LMV when I heard she was coming to TNA. I've always liked her but I knew that she was really getting up there in age for a woman wrestler. She had a pretty good feud with Daffney and I wish that had continued because they were putting on some pretty good matches as well.

It's sad to see any Knockout go but out of all of them Tara is the oldest and less bankable when it comes to longevity. Sure they can build her up to be a huge star but for what except for her to retire in a few years. I say cut the ties with Tara and build up the others.

Taylor Wilde - She has talent and the look she just needs to be pushed. The crowd really gets behind her. But what's her gimmick?

Sarita - I'm glad they teamed her with Taylor. She has alot of charisma and some amazing moves.

ODB - She is one of the only Knockouts with a story. She is a drunk! That's great though it gets stale at times. Pretty decent in the ring. TONS of charisma and she is a crowd pleaser!

Daffney: She has had the same gimmick/character for 20 years! She is a screamer...we get it...not great in the ring...but put her up against someone like Tara and she shines. She shouldn't be the focus of the division though.

Hamada: Awww yes the lone wolf here! By far the most talented Knockout when it comes to ring ability. She is so good...I'm not for sure why she is even in TNA. Excellent wrestler but no character. She needs a gimmick.

Angelina Love - She is by far my favorite Knockout. Pretty decent in the ring and pretty good charisma. Everytime she is in the ring she tells a story. Excellent Heel and not to bad as a face either. I think she should be the focus of the division. Great crowd response also since she has returned.

Madison Rayne - I'm very split with Madison. She is a good wrestler but at times she gets lost. She has her character down to a tee though.

Velvet Sky - Mic skills are good but damn her voice and her screaming is annoying. Not that good in the ring and she is a 5 move wonder. But she is pretty and like Madison she has her character down to a tee as well.

Lacey Von Erich - I'm probably the only one that thinks this but this is the girl to watch out for in the next couple of years. In my opinion this girl has got the it factor. She is beautiful! She is pretty good on the mic and the crowd loves to hate her however she isn't great in the ring. She makes some mistakes but she is still very young and green. It's interesting to point out that she has had less then 6 months training under her belt while in FCW so of course she is green. I'm glad that she is training now and I really think that in a couple years this girl could turn out to be like Trish Stratus. I didn't say she was the next Trish I said she could be like Trish lol

I would love to see Gail Kim leave WWE and come back to TNA and the return of Roxxi would be really nice as well. I say pass on Mickie James and go with Katie Lea.

[Slagaholic]

When people talk down about Lacey Von Erich they don't realize he's very very green. I think she'll end up being the next huge female wrestling star in the US. She has a desire to improve, has the charisma, has the looks, and has the genes.

[stratusfaction]

When people talk down about Lacey Von Erich they don't realize he's very very green. I think she'll end up being the next huge female wrestling star in the US. She has a desire to improve, has the charisma, has the looks, and has the genes.

I agree Lacey has got it! She just needs some training. When she first started TNA the crowd showed their displeasure of her and the internet forums were busting her left and right and the whole time she kept it together. I remember when she tripped on the ramp while running down to interfere and the crowd booed. She got right back up, shaked it off and acted like it never happened.

She is not horrible in the ring by any means! I can name a few Divas who are much worse and who've had much more training. This girl might be a generic looking bleach blonde but she is a Von Erich and I think she is going to accomplish big things!

[Moe Hunter]

Not really a big surprise given TNA's large UK fanbase, The fact that he is a heel, has not faced RVD one on one and is an IWC darling who tend to vote more and earlier. Same with Abyss just having 2 percent as he is the no3 babyface for marks after RVD and Hardy, so with Hardy there why vote Abyss?

Angle less votes because of the time off and also bigger star then Abyss, Pope is Pope! And was recent no1 contender, Jarrett gets sympathy votes. I just would not read to much into Abyss not getting that many votes as some online have done.

I don't think people would shy away from voting Angle just because he wants to take some time off. After Pope got robbed, why wouldn't people want to see him get another shot?

Jarrett and Abyss getting incredibly low votes is entirely accurate in the representation of how the fans feel about them. They are being pushed way higher than their actual overness. Even if it was just Abyss and Hardy, I would vote Hardy, and I don't even like Hardy. Abyss is plain awful.

I like Wolfe, but I have to say I voted for Anderson, just because I'm voting honestly. I do however wholeheartedly believe in the strategy of voting for Wolfe just so that Hardy doesn't steal the whole poll. Watch TNA's "championship committee" make their weight tip the scales in Hardy's favour still, though.

BTW, I would really like to see Angle vs RVD. It was the match that put Angle in TNA to begin with, after all!

[Remianen]

She is not horrible in the ring by any means!

I would disagree, but maybe it comes down to perspective.

Six months out of APW Boot Camp, Melissa was far superior to Lacey. Go rent the 'Future Legend' DVD (or any of APW's DVDs from that period) and see for yourself. Then again, Melissa was wrestling MEN (Robert Thompson, among others) so maybe that made a difference.

Lacey Von Erich has a significant barrier she has to break through. What barrier is that? The one she sees in the mirror. Generally speaking, the women wrestlers who rely on their looks early on, tend to do so for their entire career. Their skills don't get them booked or hired, their looks do, so their skills never get the level of work or polish that their looks tend to. Once you get pigeonholed into that 'diva' category, you can't break out. When you think of the best women's wrestlers, almost none of them fit that basic template (bottle blonde, often with hooters) that Lacey...and Angelina...and Velvet...and Madison...and Shantelle...and Maryse...all do. MsChif? Nope! Hamada? No. Sara del Rey? Nope. Mercedes Martinez? No. Melissa? Hells no. Sarah Stock? Nope! LuFisto? Hahahaha, no. She'll learn to work that overly simplistic, low impact SE style decently...and nothing else. But assuming she only wants to work for TNA or WWE, that's probably all she needs.

Besides, just because there are people who are worse than her, doesn't mean she's automatically not bad (or horrible). It just means, she's not the worst. No more than the Nets season mean they weren't a bad team just because they didn't break the league record for futility.

[PeterHilton]

Lacey's f'n awful in the ring.

AWFUL

The fac tthat she looks like that and has that last name but isn't working for the E means that a) they think she's a legitimate danger to others (which is saying a lot if you look at that pile of hot mess they call a women's division) or b) she's a giant pain in the ass to work with (which seems possible considering the rumors and interviews she gave when Angelina was having visa issues).

[Slagaholic]

Which is why she's worked about 5 minutes in the ring her entire time in TNA.

She's still very very green, and you can't just write off her entire career because she's awful in her what...2nd year wrestling? C'mon!

[Hyde Hill]

If anybody is interested I found a link for a cheap, wink wink, version of the Kendrick and London shoot interview, send me a pm if you want it.

[Hyde Hill]

Which is why she's worked about 5 minutes in the ring her entire time in TNA.

She's still very very green, and you can't just write off her entire career because she's awful in her what...2nd year wrestling? C'mon!

No but she is so awful in and out of ring and reportedly backstage that she deserves no air time at this point in time. Love and Sky cover pretty much the same fanbase lookwise and are both better/less bad. The BP where intended as a foil for the rest of the KO's and representing what the KO division was not about. Not as the centrepiece of the division. The BP worked best when it was just Love and Skye as they had good chemistry together in promo's etc. LVE should just go for now and Madison while decent is not better or more over then a lot of independent and recently released, by WWE and TNA, talent. So in my book if you have to have the BP's around reunite Skye and Love and dump those two and make room for others.

[PeterHilton]

Which is why she's worked about 5 minutes in the ring her entire time in TNA.

She's still very very green, and you can't just write off her entire career because she's awful in her what...2nd year wrestling? C'mon!

Not writing off her career. But in sports terms she's a project.

I mean..she's one of those Hasheem Thabeet projects where she's got all the physical gifts to be a star, and she's incredibly raw, so there's definitely tremendous upside potential.

But there's just as much of a chance she never gets her act together.

Considering the personality she's shown thus far and the incredibly sad, dysfunctional, and violent family she's come from (and I know this isn't a nice thing to say but it's true) there's a prett goody chance she's not easy to deal with.

Hope for the best, I suppose.

[eayragt]

No but she is so awful in and out of ring and reportedly backstage that she deserves no air time at this point in time. Love and Sky cover pretty much the same fanbase lookwise and are both better/less bad. The BP where intended as a foil for the rest of the KO's and representing what the KO division was not about. Not as the centrepiece of the division. The BP worked best when it was just Love and Skye as they had good chemistry together in promo's etc. LVE should just go for now and Madison while decent is not better or more over then a lot of independent and recently released, by WWE and TNA, talent. So in my book if you have to have the BP's around reunite Skye and Love and dump those two and make room for others.

No way - surely TNA's ultimate ambition is to have KO's graduating from The Beautiful People to become seen as legitimate wrestlers? Love going back would be a huge kick in the teeth, and it's not as if there isn't a large list of people who can take a BP role.

[PeterHilton]

Oh when will the Bubba Era end???

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/137860/Bubba-The-Love-Sponge-Discusses-His-TNA-Termination.htm

Credit: Richard Trionfo and Pwinsider.com

Bubba the Love Sponge discussed his recent termination from Total Nonstop Action Wrestling on his radio show on Monday morning.

The show's discussion started with an audio clip of local news coverage of the firing which detailed the incident in January as well as the phone confrontation between Bubba and Awesome Kong on the Cowhead Show (which airs on the same station in Tampa that carries Bubba's show) that took place last week.

Bubba noted how the incident with Awesome Kong started over his comments about the relief programs for Haiti after an Earthquake caused significant damage in January. He discussed the way that the relief has been distributed to the people and how a lot has not been given to the people and he said that he "looks right" about Haiti.

In regard to his firing from TNA, Bubba said that it was because he was "racially insensitive" for calling Awesome Kong a "dumb black bi**h." Bubba asked how that was ‘racial' when TNA has a character called "The Black Pope" [Note: While D'Angelo Dinero has used that term online, TNA has never referred to him under that nickname], has a character who is "openly gay throwing milk on himself as if it is sperm" (Orlando Jordan), has booked Chelsea ‘dry humping Black Pope', has a wrestler called "Black Machismo", and has a wrestler named Awesome Kong. [although Kong is no longer with the company.]

Bubba said that Dixie sent him an e-mail regarding the firing and there was discussion of having zero tolerance for racial insensitivity. He said that Dixie has advertisers, investors, and a board to answer to.

Bubba commented, "nobody watches TNA" while wondering why he got fired for what he did on the radio. He noted it was not on TNA programming and suggested that Awesome Kong and her fans organized Bubba's firing from TNA.

During the segment, Bubba called Dixie a "mark" and wondered if Dixie listened to the Cowhead Show segment because Dixie "makes most of her decisions from marks". He talked about how she uses the internet to make decisions and then wondered if Vince McMahon listened to the internet to make decisions. Bubba then said that "TNA is run like marks" and suggested that Vince Russo, Eric Bischoff, Hulk Hogan, Terry Taylor, or Ed Ferrara should run the wrestling product.

Bubba said that they should "fire me because I suck or the product sucks", but not because people Tweet Dixie Carter. He wondered how Kong could say "kiss my black a**" on the radio, but Bubba is considered the ‘racially insensitive' one. He said that "Dixie hires and fires based on the internet."

Bubba also wondered why Dixie still followed Kong's Twitter account after she was no longer with the company while Dixie never followed his Twitter account. Bubba called Dixie a "mark b***h".

Bubba said that he doesn't care if he is part of TNA because it is "below him." Bubba said that he was flipping off TNA with both hands while saying "thanks for the money." Bubba again said that the "product sucks."

One of the people on Bubba's show wondered how they could complain about Bubba being ‘racially insensitive' when they have a wrestler called Awesome Kong when ‘Kong' is usually associated with King Kong. [They did not mention on the show that Kong was known as ‘Amazing Kong' before she signed with TNA, so the name existed long before TNA hired her]. Bubba mentioned that he did not want to be considered a racist when he talked to her on the Cowhead Show by calling her by her real name.

Bubba discussed where he stands with Hulk Hogan and he said that he did not know. He said that Hogan told him to "take the high road". The situation may effect their friendship because Hogan will probably have to distance himself from Bubba. One of the people on his show asked Bubba "what did Terry do for him?" Bubba said that he did not sue over the Kong beating incident in January because of his friendship with Hogan. Bubba did say that his attorney had discussed the situation with him and they are now looking into the possibility of seeking damages against TNA at this time.

Bubba asked if he deserved to be hit three times for his comments about Haiti in January. He said that the people in TNA "shuffled it off like nothing happened." Bubba said that he would play the clip of the Hogan phone call the day after the incident when Hogan was laughing about it. Bubba read an e-mail that suggested that he should have challenged Kong immediately, but Bubba wondered how he would have looked if he did confront her physically at that point.

Bubba said that he has not mobilized his Bubba Army to deal with the firing, but said that a "modern day war" is going on. Bubba then read a number of e-mails that attacked him and were glad that he got fired from TNA. One of the cast members on Bubba's show, Brent, called people who follow wrestling "morons." They also wondered why so many people cared about Bubba being fired by TNA.

Bubba called Dixie a "mark a**" before commenting on a column written by Kevin Eck of The Baltimore Sun that discussed the Kong/Bubba telephone call on the Cowhead Show. Bubba wondered why Kong was now being portrayed as the victim in this entire situation. Bubba said that if he read the article and did not hear the radio interview, he would probably have fired himself as well. Bubba commented that Eck wrote "During the verbal exchange, BTLS called her a word that cannot appear on a family Web site seven times and also made remarks that had racial overtones" in his column. Bubba and his staff mentioned that they would have assumed that Bubba called Kong "the ‘n' word" those seven times based on that working.

Bubba also commented on Eck's bias against him and in favor of Dixie Carter because he started off his column saying "Before I get into this, let me first say that I would like nothing better than to never have to type the words "Bubba The Love Sponge" ever again. One, because I hate giving him or any shock jock publicity when they say outrageous and venomous things because that is exactly what they want; and two, because he is a crony who only has a job in pro wrestling because of who he has latched himself onto" and then wrote "I like TNA president Dixie Carter, and the consensus among everyone I know who knows her is that she is a classy person with a good heart" about Dixie.

Bubba said that he believed that Eck's column was the reason why he was fired from TNA. Bubba then played the confrontation on the Cowhead Show between him and Awesome Kong.

After playing the audio, Bubba said that he is "not going to miss the bull crap at TNA" but said that he met some great people in TNA. Bubba pointed out Sting, Jay Lethal, Jeff Jarrett, Jeremy Borash, Kurt Angle, Eric Bischoff, Scott Hall, and Kevin Nash among those he liked in TNA. It was actually a group of about thirty people. Bubba commented they "should get as much money as they can" from TNA.

Bubba took a number of calls from listeners and most of them were supportive of Bubba's position. They said that they only watched TNA because of Bubba. One of the callers said to watch the ratings drop now that Bubba is gone.

Bubba said that Dixie's decision to fire him was "knee-jerk" and that TNA will "feel the wrath of Bubba." Bubba said that he is "not going to go out as the racist b***h they are portraying him as." They ended the discussion by going back to Dixie's mention of how she had to answer to advertisers and commented, "nobody is going to advertise because it is a horrible product."

Bubba the Love Sponge's radio show is based in Tampa on 102.5 ‘The Bone' and is syndicated in a number of markets.

Kevin Eck's column about the Bubba/Awesome Kong incident can be found here.