The Official TNA Discussion Thread

[Slagaholic]

Because this is pro wrestling. A generation will have to die off before it's financiers will be willing to go with someone new.

[Hyde Hill]

Why can't we have someone new?????

Seriously, can no one else on the planet other than Eric Bischoff / Vince Russo / Paul Heyman book a decent wrestling show?

For a company that used to be all about innovation they certainly don't seem to keen for promoting a new face on the booking front...

Matt Conway is new isn't he? Hulk Hogan is new as a booker isn't he?

In general it is not good business practice when you are a relatively top dog in your field to hire a complete nobody to be one of your key players in the organization. Just look at basketball, Am Football, football. It happens from time to time with great players (Hogan/Gullit) but also because there are more "top" organizations. Right now there are 2 in wrestling.

I would always want someone with a proven track record as my head of creative and one ore more with potential as his assistants.

Also Peter remember that some of his great booking possibly was because his top stars where always poached. Forcing him to make new ones and having guys go out on their back. Just a thought. Still think Heyman is the best around with a proven record imho.

[Slagaholic]

"Oh, if you guys only knew who I met with today..... You will" - Dixie Carter

[LoganRodzen]

Sadly, I forgot TNA was on and missed the entire first hour. I'm glad I tuned in in time for Joe vs RVD. This should be a cool match.

[Slagaholic]

This was RVD's best match he's had in TNA.

I believe this was their first ever meeting as well. They work really well together.

There's been a lot of wrestling on this Impact.

Ginger ref took a bump!

[LoganRodzen]

I'd like to see them on a PPV going 30 minutes. That match had a nice flow to it and was really good for the amount of time it had. I think they could put on a Match of the Year if given time to tell a story. A match I'd definitely like to see again.

[Slagaholic]

LOL Doug Williams is afraid of heights

[GDE71]

The only reason I wouldn't want Heyman to come in right now is because TNA has been more watchable than WWE the last 2 months.

[LoganRodzen]

LOL Doug Williams is afraid of heights

That made me laugh a lot. I was waiting for Taz to say he's afraid of the dark too. :p

[Slagaholic]

Yeah I am really enjoying this TNA. Hopefully Heyman doesn't blow everything up and works within the current product. But I heard he may blow up everything, which makes me sad...yet hopeful!

[supershot]

Doug Williams' acting is whack! Other than that... great impact.

[LoganRodzen]

Another good Lethal / Flair segment I thought.

[supershot]

Victory Road is shaping up to be a cant miss PPV.

[GDE71]

That was a very good WRESTLING show.

[haloed]

Van Damminator = Mark out! I believe that was the first time he's used it since he's come to TNA?


That was a very good WRESTLING show.

Agreed. Very heavy on the wrestling this one.

[Jaysin]

Great go home show for TNA this week. I'm definitely watching Victory Road Sunday. I'm actually excited about every match on the card. Every storyline involving the matches has me intrigued.

Prediction time!

Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money- I'm hoping this is the time where the Guns FINALLY get the tag titles.

Matt Morgan vs Hernandez- Gonna go with Hernandez for the win here.

Ric Flair vs Jay Lethal- Lethal wins

Madison Rayne vs Angelina Love- Love wins the KO title for the fourth time

Douglas Williams vs Brian Kendrick- This one has some good build up. Except for Doug's acting on this week's Impact. Ultimate X's rarely disappoint and the added stipulation of submission makes it even more intriguing.

Kurt Angle vs Pope- I wish Pope could win this, but I doubt he will. Kurt gets the win, but makes Pope look like gold.

Brother Ray vs Brother Devon vs Jesse- I'm going to go with Jesse. Hopefully Raven, Dreamer, Richards, and Rhino get involved.

AJ&Kaz vs TBA- Not sure who their opponents could be, but I'm going to go with AJ & Kaz since both need solid wins

RVD vs Abyss vs Jeff Hardy vs Mr Anderson- I'm kind of torn on who I think is going to win this one. Either RVD retains, or Abyss wins.

[Slagaholic]

Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money - Gotta go with the Guns here. How have they never held the TNA tag titles?

Matt Morgan vs Hernandez- Hernandez gets revenge. I expect a lot of color for both guys. This is the type of match in which having it be a color-fest helps the story.

Ric Flair vs Jay Lethal- Flair will probably never win another match.

Madison Rayne vs Angelina Love- I like Madison Rayne the career killer.

Douglas Williams vs Brian Kendrick- Kendrick makes Williams tap.

Kurt Angle vs Pope- Angle obviously.

Brother Ray vs Brother Devon vs Jesse- Jesse is going to win this one...but he'll pin Devon.

AJ&Kaz vs TBA- AJ and Kaz lose to Generation Me thanks to them not working as a team. Or

RVD vs Abyss vs Jeff Hardy vs Mr Anderson- Anderson swerves Hardy and gets the title. Anderson just latched on to Hardy to get a title opportunity. I'd have heel Anderson hold the title until Bound For Glory and we get an Angle-Anderson rematch. Then again it could end up being Abyss.

Plus it makes sense if both Kendrick and MCMGs win since you can't have a face holding every title.

[juggaloninjalee]

Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money - I want the MCMG to win but I think Beer Money will win.

Matt Morgan vs Hernandez- I really think that Matt Morgan should win for many reasons.

Ric Flair vs Jay Lethal- Lethal will get the rub.

Madison Rayne vs Angelina Love- Love will win

Douglas Williams vs Brian Kendrick- Kendrick

Kurt Angle vs Pope- Angle and Pope will get a rematch down the road if this is a classic match.

Brother Ray vs Brother Devon vs Jesse- Brother Ray and he will go after Jesse after the match continueing this whole thing.

AJ&Kaz vs TBA- AJ and Kaz win!

RVD vs Abyss vs Jeff Hardy vs Mr Anderson- I will give the win to Abyss or RVD. Anderson and Hardy will be mad at each other and feud. RVD will get a rematch at Abyss in a hardcore match down the line. Or Abyss will get another shot at the title in a few weeks.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah I am really enjoying this TNA. Hopefully Heyman doesn't blow everything up and works within the current product. But I heard he may blow up everything, which makes me sad...yet hopeful!

Yeah it seems odd that if it does happen and Heyman takes it into another direction completely this will be the second time in a row that it was actually getting good BFG till Final Res last year and now move back to Thursday till now that they change it up again. I know Bisch has a lot of haters but I am mainly seeing his hand in all this stuff. He had TNA do the survey, got the info out of that and distilled what did and did not work from the Jan 4th till last Monday period and has made great adjustments.

[sheepy]

Yeah it seems odd that if it does happen and Heyman takes it into another direction completely this will be the second time in a row that it was actually getting good BFG till Final Res last year and now move back to Thursday till now that they change it up again. I know Bisch has a lot of haters but I am mainly seeing his hand in all this stuff. He had TNA do the survey, got the info out of that and distilled what did and did not work from the Jan 4th till last Monday period and has made great adjustments.


Seconded, TNA in general has been on the up over the course of the last year. There have just been a number of setbacks on the way that have stopped it from growing - more upheaval behind the scenes certainly isn't needed.

The only area not getting the real attention it deserves and that needs to be looked at is the Knockouts division. Everything else seems to be going in the right direction.

[Hyde Hill]

Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money- Guns finally please please please please.

Matt Morgan vs Hernandez- Hernandez finally gets revenge but Morgan has a good showing.

Ric Flair vs Jay Lethal- Lethal!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing else would make sense.

Madison Rayne vs Angelina Love- Love, hope for a rematch where if Rayne loses the ones she retired get reinstated, man the KO's need bodies, come on Micky get over here.

Douglas Williams vs Brian Kendrick- Time for Kendrick to win it imho, although maybe Williams bad acting was on purpose eg he is not afaid of hights and Kendrick assuming he is costs him the match.

Kurt Angle vs Pope- Angle wins and makes Pope look great

Brother Ray vs Brother Devon vs Jesse- Don't care, seriously.

AJ&Kaz vs TBA- If TBA are in TNA atm or legends then AJ and Kaz if it is TWGTT they win. Plus I think they would be better in fourtune as they need a mouthpiece more then Beer Money.

RVD vs Abyss vs Jeff Hardy vs Mr Anderson- RVD as TNA goes with long term champions, Anderson turns on Hardy making RVD vs Abyss one on one for the next ppv.

[GDE71]

Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money- Guns finally please please please please.

Matt Morgan vs Hernandez- Hernandez finally gets revenge but Morgan has a good showing.

Ric Flair vs Jay Lethal- Lethal!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing else would make sense.

Madison Rayne vs Angelina Love- Love, hope for a rematch where if Rayne loses the ones she retired get reinstated, man the KO's need bodies, come on Micky get over here.

Douglas Williams vs Brian Kendrick- Time for Kendrick to win it imho, although maybe Williams bad acting was on purpose eg he is not afaid of hights and Kendrick assuming he is costs him the match.

Kurt Angle vs Pope- Angle wins and makes Pope look great

Brother Ray vs Brother Devon vs Jesse- Don't care, seriously.

AJ&Kaz vs TBA- If TBA are in TNA atm or legends then AJ and Kaz if it is TWGTT they win. Plus I think they would be better in fourtune as they need a mouthpiece more then Beer Money.

RVD vs Abyss vs Jeff Hardy vs Mr Anderson- RVD as TNA goes with long term champions, Anderson turns on Hardy making RVD vs Abyss one on one for the next ppv.

I totally agree with the part I put in bold. I can really see that happening or at the very least it coming very close to costing Kendrick the match.

[LoganRodzen]

Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money - Beer Money seems to be picking up close / lucky victories. I think something will happen at Victory Road that makes Beer Money win in a way that makes MCMGs look good anyway.

Matt Morgan vs Hernandez - I don't care about this match at all. I will get food or use the bathroom during this one. :o

Ric Flair vs Jay Lethal - I expect some type of interference or something that will cost Lethal the match. I think they could continue this feud into another PPV. Lethal would obviously deserve a rematch if he's screwed in some way, shape, or form.

Madison Rayne vs Angelina Love - You don't build up a character like Madison Rayne - whose cost two workers their 'careers' - and then have her lose against her first "real" defense. Madison has to win to keep her character going strong.

Douglas Williams vs Brian Kendrick - Loving Kendrick's character and I wanna see him be the focal point of the X-Division... the X-Division that needs to get back to its cruiserweight routes.

Kurt Angle vs Pope - Pope is one of those workers that can get over on his promo ability alone. His losses don't even matter in my opinion because on the microphone he always looks like a contender.

Brother Ray vs Brother Devon vs Jesse - I honestly want to see Dreamer, Raven, Richards, and Rhino come out during this and join with Team 3D. Showing a big swerve by Devon and then having them wreck Jesse. I know that won't actually happen and Jesse will probably go over somehow.

AJ & Kaz vs TBA - You can't have these two lose on PPV. They're TNA originals. Curious who their opponents are though.

RVD vs Abyss vs Jeff Hardy vs Mr Anderson - I know he isn't going to win, but if TNA wants to build their show around somebody reliable and someone whose REALLY READY to carry a promotion... it's Mr Anderson.

[thommohawk]

Seconded, TNA in general has been on the up over the course of the last year. There have just been a number of setbacks on the way that have stopped it from growing - more upheaval behind the scenes certainly isn't needed.

The only area not getting the real attention it deserves and that needs to be looked at is the Knockouts division. Everything else seems to be going in the right direction.

I disagree slightly, I'm loving TNA right now and have done for a number of years. But I do think Heyman taking over creative and doing what he will with the product can only be a good thing for TNA, especially in the long run, why ? Because Paul Heyman knows what he's doing when it comes to creativity in wrestling. Consistently pushing the right guys in the right way before anyone else hits up on the idea....and right now TNA has all the ability and experience as well as brains between the roster itself, Flair, Hogan & Bischoff - Heyman however will add that much needed edge and creative spark that ECW had is spades.

Also speaking of this ECW faction....I would love to see Paul Heyman bring with him Mikey Whipwreck and The Sinister Minister James Mitchell back to TNA as those two in ECW were excellent and it just adds to the alternative deal. Which seems to be where TNA is about to head if Heyman comes in, which it looks as though he will given the strength of the rumors and interest etc.....

[Hyde Hill]

I disagree slightly, I'm loving TNA right now and have done for a number of years. But I do think Heyman taking over creative and doing what he will with the product can only be a good thing for TNA, especially in the long run, why ? Because Paul Heyman knows what he's doing when it comes to creativity in wrestling. Consistently pushing the right guys in the right way before anyone else hits up on the idea....and right now TNA has all the ability and experience as well as brains between the roster itself, Flair, Hogan & Bischoff - Heyman however will add that much needed edge and creative spark that ECW had is spades.

Also speaking of this ECW faction....I would love to see Paul Heyman bring with him Mikey Whipwreck and The Sinister Minister James Mitchell back to TNA as those two in ECW were excellent and it just adds to the alternative deal. Which seems to be where TNA is about to head if Heyman comes in, which it looks as though he will given the strength of the rumors and interest etc.....

Never said that Heyman coming in from that standpoint would be bad, I was more arguing the point that I do not hope he totally changes everything all of a sudden etc and I think that is what Sheepy was agreeing with as well.

[Hyde Hill]

Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money - Beer Money seems to be picking up close / lucky victories. I think something will happen at Victory Road that makes Beer Money win in a way that makes MCMGs look good anyway.

Matt Morgan vs Hernandez - I don't care about this match at all. I will get food or use the bathroom during this one. :o

Ric Flair vs Jay Lethal - I expect some type of interference or something that will cost Lethal the match. I think they could continue this feud into another PPV. Lethal would obviously deserve a rematch if he's screwed in some way, shape, or form.

Madison Rayne vs Angelina Love - You don't build up a character like Madison Rayne - whose cost two workers their 'careers' - and then have her lose against her first "real" defense. Madison has to win to keep her character going strong.

Douglas Williams vs Brian Kendrick - Loving Kendrick's character and I wanna see him be the focal point of the X-Division... the X-Division that needs to get back to its cruiserweight routes.

Kurt Angle vs Pope - Pope is one of those workers that can get over on his promo ability alone. His losses don't even matter in my opinion because on the microphone he always looks like a contender.

Brother Ray vs Brother Devon vs Jesse - I honestly want to see Dreamer, Raven, Richards, and Rhino come out during this and join with Team 3D. Showing a big swerve by Devon and then having them wreck Jesse. I know that won't actually happen and Jesse will probably go over somehow.

AJ & Kaz vs TBA - You can't have these two lose on PPV. They're TNA originals. Curious who their opponents are though.

RVD vs Abyss vs Jeff Hardy vs Mr Anderson - I know he isn't going to win, but if TNA wants to build their show around somebody reliable and someone whose REALLY READY to carry a promotion... it's Mr Anderson.

Have to question that given all his injury woes. Also of the perceived non TNA originals Angle, RVD and Hardy are still bigger names imho even-though Anderson is hot atm.

[LoganRodzen]

Have to question that given all his injury woes. Also of the perceived non TNA originals Angle, RVD and Hardy are still bigger names imho even-though Anderson is hot atm.

I just think he's one of those guys that could benefit from having a title. I don't think he's been as hot going into this PPV, but mostly due to booking. His time on TV has been pretty limited lately and it's disappointed me. I honestly expect Abyss to win or RVD to retain.

[Jaysin]

Have to question that given all his injury woes. Also of the perceived non TNA originals Angle, RVD and Hardy are still bigger names imho even-though Anderson is hot atm.

I find all those claims of him being injury prone to be blown out of proportion. In the same time frame, Edge has hurt himself wayyyy more. Yet, Anderson is the injury prone one?

[cappyboy]

I just think he's one of those guys that could benefit from having a title. I don't think he's been as hot going into this PPV, but mostly due to booking. His time on TV has been pretty limited lately and it's disappointed me. I honestly expect Abyss to win or RVD to retain.


Dude, everybody's one of those guys that could benefit from having a title. That's not a reason to give a belt to someone. That's how you end up with so many titles they turn into trinkets rather than credible belts.

[LoganRodzen]

Dude, everybody's one of those guys that could benefit from having a title. That's not a reason to give a belt to someone. That's how you end up with so many titles they turn into trinkets rather than credible belts.

I think at times heel workers (which is how I'd prefer to see Anderson, though a mix isn't bad at all) benefit from championships way more than anybody else. I've always been a big fan of the face chasing the heel and coming up short, but still staying strong.

[Hyde Hill]

I find all those claims of him being injury prone to be blown out of proportion. In the same time frame, Edge has hurt himself wayyyy more. Yet, Anderson is the injury prone one?

Agreed but still do not think he should have the title at this point. I am actually partial too good face runs with titles as "The chase" while a proven system has been kinda overdone. I really liked AJ's face run in part because of that.

[Self]

Agreed but still do not think he should have the title at this point. I am actually partial too good face runs with titles as "The chase" while a proven system has been kinda overdone. I really liked AJ's face run in part because of that.

I'm with you on this. Having a cheating heel champion is such a cliche nowadays. It's classic storytelling, but... Is it really the kind of thing you do to try to stand out? If I were running TNA, I'd choose a babyface, give him the strap, and make him look like the most exciting, more dominant, most awesomest bad ass the world have ever seen. Taz in ECW. George St Pierre in UFC. Hulk Hogan way back when. An ultra-cool, modern, TNA exclusive ass-kicking machine.

People like winners.

[cappyboy]

I'm with you on this. Having a cheating heel champion is such a cliche nowadays. It's classic storytelling, but... Is it really the kind of thing you do to try to stand out?

Well, cliches get to be cliches for a reason. But that doesn't change the value in breaking away from them. Nor does it make them particularly useful when you need to carve a new path like TNA does.

If I were running TNA, I'd choose a babyface, give him the strap, and make him look like the most exciting, more dominant, most awesomest bad ass the world have ever seen. Taz in ECW. George St Pierre in UFC. Hulk Hogan way back when. An ultra-cool, modern, TNA exclusive ass-kicking machine.

People like winners.

True enough. But I don't know how much I'd go along with this approach. Your idea can be good for a while. But the problem is guys can grow accustomed to all that awesomeness and when they do you get backlashes like those against John Cena and the aforementioned Hogan. Plus, it lets out the AJ Styles reign Brother Hill was discussing. AJ isn't and really shouldn't be that ultra-cool ass-kicking machine. He's an up by the bootstraps fighter of the odds. He's an overcomer. He's the guy who'd need to be chasing the sneaky heel champ you don't want.

Personally if you want the ass-kicking machine type, I'd look to RVD. He's got that laid-back, relaxed kind of cool and could kick asses without being overly impressed by it. Why do you think Chuck Norris gets so much love and is such a cult figure? It's because he kicks copious amounts of ass but is all chill and relaxed about it. He doesnt have to bloviate or scream primally about what he's going to do. He just goes out and does it and then tends to what's important to him. If anybody in TNA could capture that spirit, it's RVD.

But I'm not sure I'd want that guy either. The consistent face of the company is A.J. Styles. And he has a Dusty Rhodes-like blue collar growth pattern going. They've had gold in the Styles/Joe/Daniels relationship and AJ needing to try and hold onto the belt while coping with the betrayal of his once inner circle, Joe and Daniels. But they haven't been willing follow through it. Joe has't been able to hold an identity for any prolonged period of time and Daniels has Feasted on getting Fired.

TNA's doesn't need to reinvent the wheel from scratch. They need to recognize the strengths of who they have and build their wheel from the materials they have. They have had the pieces in place. The inspiring, can-do champion in Styles. The army that could have been out to tear him down in The Nation of Violence. The Daniels jealousy to put him in the anti-AJ camp. A loved tag team like Beer Money who could have turned on AJ over the jealousy that solo wrestlers get all the glory while great tag teams get no respect from those who matter in the business. Problem was that stuff had to take a back seat because the equally valuable path clearing that was the Main Event Mafia was going on when they chose to rush that stuff to the fore.

Folks on here have been talking about recreating the Horsemen in TNA. That might actually be a way to recapture the gold the squandered before. AJ could, in Rhodes fashion, realize the flashy Flair lifestyle just isn't him and return to his blue-collar world. Which makes Flair crazy and turns him in a vengeance minded version of JJ Dillon. Flair recruits AJ frenemies Joe and Daniels (yes, I know Daniels would need to be re-hired) as center pieces since they know AJ's weaknesses as well or even better than he does. And then he goes on the search for a tag team. Maybe Beer Money since they are such fixtures in the division. Perhaps the Machine Guns. Flair could play on the Guns and their jealousy of AJ getting all the love while they've been treated as the underclass of TNA for so long. And I could see their arrogant attitudes meshing better with a guy like Flair than others who've tried to get them in line in the past. Meanwhile AJ also has the title to defend and how long can he hold it with his mind split between the challengers the rankings dictate and the war with these new Horsemen. Seems like a very compelling program to me and they don't have to go crazy experimenting with guys who might not fit the molds the company finds necessary for some far-flung trip to Square One.

I would so mark out if they did hire on Heyman and on the first night in charge he came out and announced that he truly was going to change the TNA world. And he was going to do it by NOT changing the world. TNA always has the game changers they need and he's going to let them change it as he knows they can. At this stage of the game, that truly would change the TNA world considering how long they've been trying to blow people's minds using outside forces. Plus, I would imagine it would go over well with Papa Carter as it would mean not having to lay out crazy dollars for free agents whose novelty is always temporary.

[ampulator]

Actually, making Angle a bad ass isn't a bad idea... he has the skills to back it up and make the fans cheer for it, befcause he's actually legit.

The real issue is, this will put a LOT of pressure on Angle. I doubt he needs anymore, considering his body condition.

[Self]

Sure, after a while the John-Cena-Effect may start to kick in, but I guess the trick is to not put all your eggs in one basket. Have some back-ups.

I actually like the idea of AJ in the role. He's a TNA original. He fights differently to all of the main event WWE guys. Size is only an issue if you let it be. How many kung fu movies are there where the little guy destroys a bunch of big guys with quickness and skill? You book smart. ECW turned 5'odd Tazz into a beast.

Except for the 'WWE reject' tag, I like Van Dam in the role. Cool guy. Wrestles differently to everyone else. No size problems.

Other choices? Samoa Joe. Abyss could work (although he's totally not my cup of tea) Pope. I'm a massive James Storm mark, so I can see an serious babyface contender in there.

[cappyboy]

Sure, after a while the John-Cena-Effect may start to kick in, but I guess the trick is to not put all your eggs in one basket. Have some back-ups.

You'll get no argument from me on this part. I'm a big believer in having a safety net.

I actually like the idea of AJ in the role. He's a TNA original. He fights differently to all of the main event WWE guys. Size is only an issue if you let it be. How many kung fu movies are there where the little guy destroys a bunch of big guys with quickness and skill? You book smart. ECW turned 5'odd Tazz into a beast.

Except for the 'WWE reject' tag, I like Van Dam in the role. Cool guy. Wrestles differently to everyone else. No size problems.

Other choices? Samoa Joe. Abyss could work (although he's totally not my cup of tea) Pope. I'm a massive James Storm mark, so I can see an serious babyface contender in there.

My problem is AJ as the ass-kicking machine guy isn't size. I was the little guy growing up. It would be rather hypocritical of me to think only the big guys could be the ass-kickers. My only beef with AJ playing that way is the persona. He has his niche as the Dusty Rhodes, rags to riches type face. Which means if they'd went the bad-ass butt kicker route, I'd want to see someone else do it. It would kind of take away from AJ's overcomer charm if he were the big bad ass-kicker as well.

I've made my case for Van Dam and it could be a very hip move with all the love the Chuck Norris jokes get. Joe would be good. But he has that identity problem. I'd be fearful of putting him in the ass-kicker role because he's yet to show he can keep one. Abyss? Well maybe. Personally, I liked him in the cuddly reformed ex-monster role. Although I did think he paired up better with Mick Foley than Hulk Hogan. Pope could work. That role plus his personality skills could make him the next Rock. Don't know I'd buy into James Storm so much. He'd strike me as cliche in much the same way Austin always did. But considering I was always in the extreme minority on Austin, he could be a possibility. I'd also put Matt Morgan in the mix for that. Plenty of personality. A strong power game that could be ideal for ass-kickery. Admittedly a pet choice much like Storm is for you. But Morgan strikes me as being able to be the guy Kevin Nash always aspired to but started attempting to be a little too late in the game.

The thrust of my dissent with trying to find that uber-ass-kicker is that it feels like it's unnecessary and another "shock the world" gamble. When what TNA needs is someone who can let the guys they have shine. If they could make it work, I'd probably come around. I'd be very tenative in embracing the move. But depending on who got chosen, I think I eventually would.

[Hyde Hill]

Christopher Daniels wrote this on his Twitter:

"According to PWTorch, I'm not one of AJ and Frankie's mystery opponents for TNA tomorrow. Which sucks, now my flight to Orlando is pointless"

Source TNA Asylum. Let's hope that it is Daniels. The other one rumoured is Bentley. So both ex tag team partners.

[Jaysin]

Christopher Daniels wrote this on his Twitter:

"According to PWTorch, I'm not one of AJ and Frankie's mystery opponents for TNA tomorrow. Which sucks, now my flight to Orlando is pointless"

Source TNA Asylum. Let's hope that it is Daniels. The other one rumoured is Bentley. So both ex tag team partners.

That would be so awesome. I was telling my brother how it'd be so cool if Daniels and Bentley came back as the mystery opponents. Though, newer TNA fans might have no idea who Matt Bentley is. I was so let down when he left the company. Him and Kaz were awesome together.

[The Final Countdown]

I would hate it. I'm enjoying Daniels being back in ROH, and I think he'd just become lost in the shuffle--again--if he returns to TNA. And I've always hated Bentley.

[cappyboy]

That would be so awesome. I was telling my brother how it'd be so cool if Daniels and Bentley came back as the mystery opponents. Though, newer TNA fans might have no idea who Matt Bentley is. I was so let down when he left the company. Him and Kaz were awesome together.

And you know, I'd certainly go along with this. I may be one of those newer TNA fans as I'd seen little to none of Kaz pre-Suicide. But if Bentley came back and they put over the past history with Kaz, I wouldn't care that I didn't particularly know who he was as long as they allowed him to have more personality than Kaz has so far. I could get the back history on the fly and it might perk up my interest in Kazarian if Bentley came off halfway entertaining. The only way not knowing who Bentley was would present a problem for me is if they made him as dull as Kazarian has been.

[Slagaholic]

I would hate it. I'm enjoying Daniels being back in ROH, and I think he'd just become lost in the shuffle--again--if he returns to TNA. And I've always hated Bentley.

Daniels was released because he had a guaranteed money deal. I doubt they'd sign him to another one so soon. Meaning he has a PPA agreement. Meaning he can still work ROH.

Most likely if it is Daniels it could just be a one off-er.

[Jaysin]

Daniels was released because he had a guaranteed money deal. I doubt they'd sign him to another one so soon. Meaning he has a PPA agreement. Meaning he can still work ROH.

Most likely if it is Daniels it could just be a one off-er.

You must have missed the one interview Bischoff said he wanted Daniels back as soon as they found a story line for him. Eric said he was very high on Daniels and couldn't wait to have him back.

[Self]

Sick of Daniels. Sick of 'surprises'. The PPV card actually looks pretty good, but things like this get on my tit. Maybe I was just hoping for AJ & Kaz vs Generation Me. Surely the Bucks are a perfect babyface team to not overshadow the AJ & Kaz drama?

Personally, I think 'surprise' participants are an admission of 'we don't know how to build stars'. If they were doing their job right, they'd have built up guys already on the roster to the point where we'd want to pay to see them fight, instead of trying to psyche us up with mystery opponents.

[MasterJ]

Generation Me are good wrestlers but their too bland to be anything special unless we see some kind of change with them I see no personality in either one atm. I dont mind the surprises its always cool for me, and as for TNA not building stars thats just funny have you been watching TNA latley but maybe I'm just not understanding your point but they have built plenty of stars Morgan, Hernadez, Styles, Kaz, Lethal, Pope, Abyss, Doug Williams, Kendrick (Is getting the time to do somthing unlike in WWE), Beer Money, Joe,

[Slagaholic]

Sick of Daniels. Sick of 'surprises'. The PPV card actually looks pretty good, but things like this get on my tit. Maybe I was just hoping for AJ & Kaz vs Generation Me. Surely the Bucks are a perfect babyface team to not overshadow the AJ & Kaz drama?

Personally, I think 'surprise' participants are an admission of 'we don't know how to build stars'. If they were doing their job right, they'd have built up guys already on the roster to the point where we'd want to pay to see them fight, instead of trying to psyche us up with mystery opponents.

Dude it's not the main event, semi mainevent, and possibly not even a mid-card match on the PPV. It was a match added at the last minute and will probably go 5-10 minutes. TNA does not expect people to buy a PPV to see who will be facing AJ and Kaz.

Take a deep breath.

[MasterJ]

I have a feeling that the two guys in the tag match tonight will be david flair and reid flair

[brashleyholland]

I read somewhere that the 'mystery tag team' is going to be (drum roll)....

SPOILERS IN WHITE:

****Samoa Joe and Rob Terry****

Jeeeeezus.

[Slagaholic]

That was a creative finish. The last few minutes leading up to it were really awkward.

[Jaysin]

Kendrick looked off after he took that bump from the metal structure to the outside. The second big bump looked like he got hurt even more. I hope it's not real, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's legit hurt.

[Slagaholic]

This PPV reeks of Russo.

[angeldelayette]

Can anyone be nice enough to put up results and major happenings here for those of us college students who cannot afford the ppv? :D



Please?

[jwt13]

so far Williams beat Kendrick and Bubba beat Jesse and Devon

[Slagaholic]

Doug Williams def Brian Kendrick. - Kendrick took a couple of rough looking bumps and knocked himself out. Williams put him in a sleeper.

Brother Ray def Jesse Neal and Brother Devon - Jesse speared Devon by accident and Brother Ray hit the Bubba Bomb to win. The ECW guys showed up and did absolutely nothing.

[Slagaholic]

Madison Rayne's gear is skin colored. God Bless America.

[Johnny Fenoli]

was that the female shockmaster????

[Slagaholic]

Umm...that was...interesting.

A woman in all black on a motorcycle shows up and attacks Angie. Ref rules a DQ and awards her the title. Madison leaves with the mysterious woman on her motorcycle.

Russo couldn't hold it in any longer could he? For **** sake.

[jwt13]

im thinking sarita

[Jaysin]

Definitely something new. Looked to thin to be Velvet or Lacey. New Knockout?

[Slagaholic]

im thinking sarita

That's my guess.

[Jaysin]

im thinking sarita

Probably right. Same body type

[Johnny Fenoli]

too small for Victoria/Tara? That's who I thought it was.

[jwt13]

and she was wearing all black when she attacked Wilde...BTW I think Joe/Terry is a good team they seem to have good chemistry tagging together

[Jaysin]

too small for Victoria/Tara? That's who I thought it was.

Definitely too small for her. This woman had a smallish chest. Tara's implants kind of disqualify her as the mystery woman. :p

[Slagaholic]

Who would have thought the match of the night so far would involve Rob Terry?

LOL third biggest pop of the match is Rob Terry properly executing a Gorilla Press.

YAY! Joe vs Wolfe feud tease!

[Jaysin]

Nice finish to the match I thought.

[haloed]

Crowd loves Joe!

[Jaysin]

Crowd loves Joe!

Who doesn't?!

[jwt13]

I say put Joe and Terry in a tag team The crowd loves joe and Terry got move over in the match than ive seen in any other match plus very good chemistry teaming and they just clicked

[Slagaholic]

Doing one tag team move doesn't mean chemistry has been discovered. I think it's because he was working with three of the better wrestlers in the world more than anything.

His timing has improved a lot since the last time he was on TV though. I'll give him that.

[jwt13]

Doing one tag team move doesn't mean chemistry has been discovered. I think it's because he was working with three of the better wrestlers in the world more than anything.

His timing has improved a lot since the last time he was on TV though. I'll give him that.

maybe chemistry wasnt the right word but they click and play well off of each other.

[Slagaholic]

Underwhelmed by Hernandez vs Morgan.

[Jaysin]

I kind of liked Hernandez dove through the door to win though.

Flair vs Lethal is next. WOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Johnny Fenoli]

Underwhelmed by Hernandez vs Morgan.

yeap, but that escape was great, LOL

[The Celt]

Streaming Victory Road...man, this is one of those PPV that reminds me that the difference between TNA and WWE in the ring is like day and night.

Just wanted to say I liked the Kaz/Styles Vs Terry/Joe match, because I get the impression some will not.

Edit: I thought/think the biker is/will be Tara.

Also when Morgan was on top of the cage I was screaming for Homicide to make the save and reunite LAX.

[Jaysin]

Streaming Victory Road...man, this is one of those PPV that reminds me that the difference between TNA and WWE in the ring is like day and night.

Just wanted to say I liked the Kaz/Styles Vs Terry/Joe match, because I get the impression some will not.

I liked it as well. They were able to hide Terry's flaws, while showing off his sheer power. It was a fun match.

[jwt13]

Flairs first PPV since Mania 08

[Jaysin]

Flair vs Lethal was so fun. I'm glad Lethal won, but damn Flair put in a good showing.

[jwt13]

Im loving this match

[Slagaholic]

MCMG and Beer Money tore the house down.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Finally!!!! Mcmg!!!!

[Jaysin]

That was awesome!!!

Now THAT was a tag team match.

[The Celt]

Wow, The Rock 'n' Roll Express (MCMG) Vs Minnesota Wrecking Crew (Beer Money) was pretty off the hook...shame they didn't give a speech or something when they finally won it, but it's cool.

[Slagaholic]

Angle v Pope was a solid match

[Slagaholic]

Mr. Anderson has facial hair! HEEL TURN A-COMIN!

[cappyboy]

Mr. Anderson has facial hair! HEEL TURN A-COMIN!

I'll need to see that. Hopefully he keeps it. Anything that differentiates him from a member of the Holly family can only be a good thing for him.

[Slagaholic]

RVD brought back the ECW introduction!

[Slagaholic]

I'll need to see that. Hopefully he keeps it. Anything that differentiates him from a member of the Holly family can only be a good thing for him.

LOL! My nephew thinks he's Bob Holly's son.

[Jaysin]

Tower of dooooooooommm

[Johnny Fenoli]

The crowd ruined this PPV........ Get outta Orlando.....

[Slagaholic]

Main Event underwhelmed me. Had a few good sports but meeeeeeh.

MCMG vs Beer Money was where this show peaked.

[The Celt]

TNA impressed me tonight. An entire PPV with no major botches or Russo madness.

[Slagaholic]

The climbing gloves and motorcycle babe SCREAMED Russo. The second half of the show was free of "yech" moments.

[angeldelayette]

So who won the ME?

[The Celt]

I choose to be positive.

With the motorcycle babe...It would have been so much worse if ayne had retained on that kind of finish. Imagine Rayne retaining just because she found someone outside the BP to do some dirty work. From a kayfabe point, the ref was right to just go ahead and assume "God damn...BP interference!" and DQ Rayne for it.

[cappyboy]

LOL! My nephew thinks he's Bob Holly's son.

LOL! Hadn't thought about that particular relationship. Didn't think the age gap between them was wide enough. But certainly can't blame him. The resemblence is strong enough for them to be closely related.

[The Celt]

LOL! Hadn't thought about that particular relationship. Didn't think the age gap between them was wide enough. But certainly can't blame him. The resemblence is strong enough for them to be closely related.

I smell a sit-com!

[Slagaholic]

So who won the ME?

RVD

[LoganRodzen]

RVD

Watching the replay right now. Really disappointed that he retained.

EDIT: The tag title match was awesome. A lot of good action. Really enjoyed that match.

[sabataged]

Who doesn't?!

Me for one. I think Joe is one of the more overrated guys going now a days. Sticking him in the tag ranks would be a good spot for him. For god sake though, not with Terry.

[Moe Hunter]

Sounds like a show worth watching at least half of.

BTW, Anderson had a goatee dealie back in OVW - is that what's going on now? It definitely made him look evil.

[LoganRodzen]

I loved when Brother Ray said Christy's playboy issue was a failure. She's a fairly good actress because she had real tears ready to roll.

[cappyboy]

I loved when Brother Ray said Christy's playboy issue was a failure. She's a fairly good actress because she had real tears ready to roll.

And you know the thing that makes that even better is that while I don't follow what Playboy does, it sounds believable. Christy had so much more chance of being successful with Playboy when she was still playing Whiskey Girl to Toby Keith. TNA is a bit of a hole in the wall by Playboy standards.

[Self]

Just got done watching the PPV. First TNA I've seen in months (I think) first wrestling I've seen in weeks (WWE holds little interest right now). I liked it. I'm not exactly eager to watch more of the stuff, but it was a fine way to spend a couple of hours.

- Son of the biscuit do the Beautiful People look alike. During the opening video package I couldn't tell the four of them apart. Differentiation, TNA. Get some.
- My guess is that the motorcycle chick (would it have killed the director to get more full body shots?) is Mickie James. Probably wasn't her tonight, but when the 90 days are up, that's my guess. As little sense as Heel Mickie would make.
- Despite how angry I apparently was at the Kaz/AJ mystery opponents, I liked their match. I like the dynamic between Kaz & AJ (especially the celebration). Joe is all kinds of great. Rob Terry did nothing bad. Good shine. Good heat. Good finish.
- Other than the pointlessness of the ECW guys, I dug the Team 3D thing. I think I know where it's going, but rock on. Always thought highly of their promo work.
- Fast-Forwarded through Hernandez/Morgan. No interest. Even after the video package.
- Very happy to see MCMG finally do it. Good solid match. Alex Shelley annoyed me a bit in this match. Beer Money got the heat on him, kicking his ass for quite some time, but every time Shelley would then do a big move, he'd play to the fans with barely a care in the world. Sabin's selling was so much better.
- Boring Main Event. Anderson's entrance is great. Jeff looks ridiculous. I can't take Abyss seriously. Rob Van Dam has the worst music I've ever heard. It seems to suck the energy out of the room. Bleh match. At least the right guy won.

I had fun. Depending on the card I might watch the next TNA PPV.

EDIT: How could I forget Ric Flair's ass??? Awesome moment.

[angeldelayette]

Rob Van Dam has the worst music I've ever heard.

I gotta say it, obviously you've never heard the American Males theme song in WCW or 'The Man Called Sting.' Definitely worse entrance music than that.

Oh and the old Paul Orndorff music back in WCW. 'Wonderful, they call him Mr. Wonderful because he is so wonderful and they know it's true.' Absolutely dreadful.

[Unregistered]

I gotta say it, obviously you've never heard the American Males theme song in WCW

I'm sorry sir, but you must be mistaken, as that was the greatest theme song of all time :p

[smurphy1014]

I'm sorry sir, but you must be mistaken, as that was the greatest theme song of all time :p

Enjoy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oKkgKn_W6Y)

[Self]

7 kinds of awesome! I'd pop for anyone coming to the ring to that.

[cappyboy]

7 kinds of awesome! I'd pop for anyone coming to the ring to that.

I don't know, Self. Seems like it would have been better if they wouldn't have sledgehammered the team's name so much in between verses. Use it a time or two in the song sure. But THAT much?

But still I know what you mean. I'm always a sad panda whenever someone mocks Mark Jindrak's "Reflection of Perfection" gimmick. I loved that shtick.

[Self]

I don't know, Self. Seems like it would have been better if they wouldn't have sledgehammered the team's name so much in between verses. Use it a time or two in the song sure. But THAT much?

But still I know what you mean. I'm always a sad panda whenever someone mocks Mark Jindrak's "Reflection of Perfection" gimmick. I loved that shtick.

I have no idea who the American Males were supposed to be, but I'm picturing a cross-between Too Much and Zack Ryder. The dorky voice saying 'American Males' over and over screams delusion. I love it.

[GDE71]

Is TNA actually making progress in the ratings?

Can they do it 2 weeks in a row?


This from 411wrestling who got it from PWInsider

- The July 8th edition of TNA Impact scored a 1.14 rating with 1,450,000 viewers.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I love RVD theme music. Unless he changes it in the last couple weeks? Good singalong theme.

[Hyde Hill]

Is TNA actually making progress in the ratings?

Can they do it 2 weeks in a row?


This from 411wrestling who got it from PWInsider

- The July 8th edition of TNA Impact scored a 1.14 rating with 1,450,000 viewers.

Yeah really hoping this is the first step in organic growth via word of mouth due to good programming. And that with the Lebron announcement as a competitor. Still watching the ppv will give thoughts later maybe.

[lazorbeak]

- Boring Main Event. Anderson's entrance is great. Jeff looks ridiculous. I can't take Abyss seriously. Rob Van Dam has the worst music I've ever heard. It seems to suck the energy out of the room. Bleh match. At least the right guy won.


Personally I didn't even think RVD's music was the worst in that match; Jeff's is pretty awful, too. And it was kind of a mediocre main event but it was a solid show overall. I'm not sure that RVD is really the "right guy" except in the sense that he's a talented worker. From what I just watched, both Kennedy and Hardy are more over with the home crowd, Pope is both excellent on the mic and not doing a re-tread of a gimmick he did in that other company 5 years ago. Joe, AJ, and Nigel (not even on the card), have the advantage of being "home grown." I just don't see what RVD as champ does for TNA long-term. I understand giving him the belt for a month or two so you can say that he's a main eventer and former champion, but he can't cut a promo, isn't all that over and was doing the exact same bit 5 years ago when he was getting the revived ECW off the ground.

[Linsolv]

Rob Van Dam's theme is my favorite in TNA right now. Bar none that I can think of right now.

Jeff Hardy's is probably my least favorite. It's SO generic, and it has lyics that are hissed rather than sung such that I can't hear them.

[MasterJ]

I just read the spiolers for Impact this week and they look awesome I'm watching it for sure

[Slagaholic]

Everything I've heard about it says it's "must watch TV."

Also read that TNA's PPVs are getting horrifyingly low buy rates. Which is no shock at all.

[haloed]

Everything I've heard about it says it's "must watch TV."

Also read that TNA's PPVs are getting horrifyingly low buy rates. Which is no shock at all.

No it isn't a surprise. Maybe they should drop the price back down to where it was. Or perhaps the rumor of doing TV specials instead would be a good course of action. Although I'd like to see them drop the price of their PPVs first and see if that helps.

[Hyde Hill]

Well their buyrates have never been that high, the question is if they are up in comparison to the last two years and are they high enough for ppv to be the most profitable option in comparison to tv specials. Any info I have had from non Meltzer sources say they are.

[Slagaholic]

The last two PPVs have been especially awful apparently.

[ampulator]

Of all things that scream, "that's so 90's!" are Pay-Per-Views. From buyable or rental CD's, DVD's, or even online distribution, PPV has been made obsolete, unless it's a LIVE performance... but even then, someone can choose to live feed their PPV viewing.

This has less to do with the quality of TNA's PPV's (because WWE's PPV's are just as bad, or worse), and has more to do with PPV's are getting less popular.

[justtxyank]

Of all things that scream, "that's so 90's!" are Pay-Per-Views. From buyable or rental CD's, DVD's, or even online distribution, PPV has been made obsolete, unless it's a LIVE performance... but even then, someone can choose to live feed their PPV viewing.

This has less to do with the quality of TNA's PPV's (because WWE's PPV's are just as bad, or worse), and has more to do with PPV's are getting less popular.

Signed,

The ever increasing UFC ppv buyrates

[MasterJ]

Signed,

The ever increasing UFC ppv buyrates

Thats a company that only has shows with top guys on PPV which diffrent from pro wrestling, and UFC and MMA is the fad now so they will drop soon

[Hyde Hill]

The last two PPVs have been especially awful apparently.

Well they did lose a lot of momentum coming out of the failed Jan 4th till return to Thursday experiments so that is not surprising. Tellingly the Thursday ratings are not what they used to be on a consistent basis yet so even with the low conversion rate TNA has the total number should be lower if all this is true. I just hope they, or if he comes in Heyman, don't panic and go for major change again as lately they have been very good and the latest rating is hopefully an indicator of organic growth. We do not know the real ppv buy figures anyway so hard to speculate on them.

And yeah in time I expect UFC buy rates to get around boxing numbers, depends on a lot of factors though as boxing does a lot more on free tv and there is lot more competition within boxing.

[PeterHilton]

Thats a company that only has shows with top guys on PPV which diffrent from pro wrestling, and UFC and MMA is the fad now so they will drop soon

:rolleyes:

that's the same broken assumption everyone in wrestling makes. The UFC will eventually level off..but i don't see why they would drop. EDIT: I also don't see how it is "different from wrestling" when wrestling PPVs are sepcifically designed so that ALL the top guys show up for the most part, whereas in UFC/MMA you are more often than nnot going to see *maybe* one top name depending on their fight schedule.

Brock Lesnar probably won't be on a PPV for another 4-5 months and yet the UFC shows in between now and then will STILL do better than TNA, the WWE, and most boxing shows.

TNA has fortunately enough structured themselves so that they don't depend heavily on PPV buys. So they aren't suffering as much as the WWE would with their awful buy rates.

Hopefully, once the ratings get up a little, they can go to more of a "Clash of the Champions model" and hold PPVs every other month or something.

[justtxyank]

Thats a company that only has shows with top guys on PPV which diffrent from pro wrestling, and UFC and MMA is the fad now so they will drop soon

Nothing you said is relevant to the idea that ppv itself is outdated. TNA isn't doing poorly on ppv because ppv is a dying 90's medium, they do poorly on ppv because too few people are interested in paying to watch them as evidenced by other ppv events doing quite well.

[justtxyank]

:rolleyes:

that's the same broken assumption everyone in wrestling makes. The UFC will eventually level off..but i don't see why they would drop.

Neither do I, but I didn't want to get into that argument. UFC has been trending up for a decade now (with dips and peaks). There is no reason to think it is going to just go away like a passing fad.

[crownsy]

Thats a company that only has shows with top guys on PPV which diffrent from pro wrestling, and UFC and MMA is the fad now so they will drop soon

Yes, fads often span a period of ten years and have a massive, rabid fan base installed.

The UFC in particular, and mixed martial arts in general are here to stay.

People like combat sports, and boxing is an absolute joke right now. OF course fight fans are turning to the UFC.

What else are we going to do, sit around and wait for the only fight anyone cares about, floyd-manny, to not get signed again?

[MasterJ]

I know UFC has its true fans and it hasn't been ten years this big the last two or three years is when the big MMA boom came and Im a fan my first fight I watched in MMA was a UFC in I think 96? and it was Tank Abbot fight. MMA has people jumping on the bandwagon because right now its "cool" to like MMA/UFC and it will cool down when it gets old like boxing and pro wrestling and will pop back up again like any fighting entertainment or sport.

[justtxyank]

I know UFC has its true fans and it hasn't been ten years this big the last two or three years is when the big MMA boom came and Im a fan my first fight I watched in MMA was a UFC in I think 96? and it was Tank Abbot fight. MMA has people jumping on the bandwagon because right now its "cool" to like MMA/UFC and it will cool down when it gets old like boxing and pro wrestling and will pop back up again like any fighting entertainment or sport.

I'm about to blow your mind...

Boxing, mma, etc. are not in the same category as pro wrestling.

[MasterJ]

I'm about to blow your mind...

Boxing, mma, etc. are not in the same category as pro wrestling.

Thats why I said Phiscal ENTERTAINMENT and SPORTS which is what i said alot of people who are watching UFC are atitude era wrestling fans who have found a new thing to go to for the moment (Therefore a fad) and once MMA has a cooling down period all sports do they will move on to somthing diffrent.

[Hyde Hill]

Guys if we are going into the nitty gritty please move this discussion to the MMA thread. Personally I can not say much on the topic as MMA is not big here. I have watched some both new and old and I like the old stuff a lot better. Otherwise I like K-1 as ground and pound bores me and it has more action and the Dutch rule it hehe. Now back to TNA and screw the rumours about bad ppv buys, low morale, financial trouble etc etc etc. Haters will hate even if they call themselves journalists.

[PeterHilton]

I know UFC has its true fans and it hasn't been ten years this big the last two or three years is when the big MMA boom came and Im a fan my first fight I watched in MMA was a UFC in I think 96? and it was Tank Abbot fight. MMA has people jumping on the bandwagon because right now its "cool" to like MMA/UFC and it will cool down when it gets old like boxing and pro wrestling and will pop back up again like any fighting entertainment or sport.

Yeah..this is pretty much bs.

I mean..the entire post beginning to end makes no real sense and you don't seem to have a solid idea about what your talking about.

[PeterHilton]

Now back to TNA and screw the rumours about bad ppv buys, low morale, financial trouble etc etc etc. Haters will hate even if they call themselves journalists.

Hyde, the "rumors" of bad buys have been around since the company began doing the montlhy PPV model. And it's pretty believable since they've only ever made the buy rates public once or twice in the history of the company.

It's not "hate"..they just attract a different audience and need to adjust their revenue streams accordingly

[LoganRodzen]

I was listening to the Pro Wrestling Report after RAW last night and somebody said Victory Road probably got around 10,000 buys. And then one of them said that was "a very generous number". I don't know about any of their PPV buys (does anyone really?), but if they're only getting that many buys then they REALLY need to do something differently. Drop the price or don't do as many.

[Remianen]

I know UFC has its true fans and it hasn't been ten years this big the last two or three years is when the big MMA boom came and Im a fan my first fight I watched in MMA was a UFC in I think 96? and it was Tank Abbot fight. MMA has people jumping on the bandwagon because right now its "cool" to like MMA/UFC and it will cool down when it gets old like boxing and pro wrestling and will pop back up again like any fighting entertainment or sport.

Please tell me where anyone has said that UFC's numbers have been "this big" for ten years? What I read is people saying (correctly, I might add) that UFC's numbers have been trending upward for ten years. There's a significant difference between what was said and what you apparently understood it to mean.

[MasterJ]

Yeah..this is pretty much bs.

I mean..the entire post beginning to end makes no real sense.

First off, it's a sport..wrestling isn't. (going back to your previous post that somehow 'all the big names' show up on PPV for MMA and not wrestling im not sure if you realize the difference)

Secondly, the sport has been growing for ten years plus. It's being covered on espn. It's no more a fad than a sport like hockey or basketball is.

Thirdly it took boxing 100 years to "get old" ..so I'm not sure what your point is in terms of MMA's longevity

First off just because you dont want to hear out what im saying dont mean its BS:rolleyes:

MMA has been around for awhile and while its covered on ESPN because its hot right now and is a legit sport.

Boxing has had its ups and downs like I said and it wasn't hot for 100 years and will probly make a come depending on how long MMA is hot. Time will tell though but I agree with Hyde if you want to continue this PM me or go to the MMA thread.

[PeterHilton]

First off just because you dont want to hear out what im saying dont mean its BS:rolleyes:

MMA has been around for awhile and while its covered on ESPN so is other sport FADS.

Boxing has had its ups and downs like I said and it wasn't hot for 100 years and will probly make a come depending on how long MMA is hot. Time will tell though but I agree with Hyde if you want to continue this PM me or go to the MMA thread.

No, it's crap. I have no desire to continue with you because you can't tell the difference between a 'sport' on an upward trend and a fad ..

you also never responded to the idea that UFC has "top guys on PPV which is different from wrestling" is a completely ass backwards statement.

EDIT: Listen..going back to how this relates to TNA...if the problem with the buy rates is that PPV is a dying medium then UFC wouldn't be growing so fast using PPV as the backbone of it's revenue. Period.

Regardless of your opinion on MMA/UFC as a sport, the two things don't jibe.

[MasterJ]

No, it's crap. I have no desire to continue with you because you can't tell the difference between a 'sport' on an upward trend and a fad ..

you also never responded to the idea that UFC has "top guys on PPV which is different from wrestling" is a completely ass backwards statement.

I said thats the reason there PPV's do better than wrestling because in wrestling now you can see the same people same matches on TV now and all your big guys are on TV. When was the last time you saw a lesnar fight live on Spike TV or an Oritz fight live on TV

[PeterHilton]

I said thats the reason there PPV's do better than wrestling because in wrestling now you can see the same people same matches on TV now and all your big guys are on TV. When was the last time you saw a lesnar fight live on Spike TV or an Oritz fight live on TV

Ohhhh..that's not actually what you said.

This...

Thats a company that only has shows with top guys on PPV which diffrent from pro wrestling

..is misleading. If that was your point then it makes sense.

[MasterJ]

Ohhhh..that's not actually what you said.

This...



..is misleading. If that was your point then it makes sense.

Yea thats what I meant about that I should made that alot more clear

[Jaysin]

Why not take the MMA talk to the MMA Thread? I don't see why this thread has to be filled with petty arguments not even concerning the topic of the thread itself.

[PeterHilton]

Why not take the MMA talk to the MMA Thread? I don't see why this thread has to be filled with petty arguments not even concerning the topic of the thread itself.

Because...


EDIT: Listen..going back to how this relates to TNA...if the problem with the buy rates is that PPV is a dying medium then UFC wouldn't be growing so fast using PPV as the backbone of it's revenue. Period.

Regardless of your opinion on MMA/UFC as a sport, the two things don't jibe.

TNA probaby doesn't *need* PPV to survive, but if they're going to throw them out there every month they need to do something to help the buys

[MasterJ]

I think were done know:)

On Topic now I do think that the PPV numbers are pretty low as they dont do to much or for what I have seen promotion for them on TV outside of Spike TV and they dont have the fan base (IWC) that will buy alot PPV's and some will just stream them online but like you said Hyde we dont have the numbers so we could be off.

[Hyde Hill]

Hyde, the "rumors" of bad buys have been around since the company began doing the montlhy PPV model. And it's pretty believable since they've only ever made the buy rates public once or twice in the history of the company.

It's not "hate"..they just attract a different audience and need to adjust their revenue streams accordingly

I know that the buys are very low or bad in comparison to the E, but I am talking about bad buys for TNA standards. The Slammiversary 7k one for example which was complete bs and I do view as "hate" along with the other stuff I mentioned. And yes agree on the revenue streams and those are improving given that tv rights are their main source of income and they just expanded to the middle east.

[Hyde Hill]

Well their buyrates have never been that high, the question is if they are up in comparison to the last two years and are they high enough for ppv to be the most profitable option in comparison to tv specials. Any info I have had from non Meltzer sources say they are.

This remains the most important. No matter how low their buys if it is more profitable to do ppv then television specials or nothing then from a short term profit standpoint they should keep doing ppv. Even if ppv is more profitable if the margin is not to big then it might be smart to move to more television specials as an aide to growing their fanbase. But this has been covered a lot.

Too bad a certain ref doesn't work in the ppv division or we could have asked maskedpropaganda lolz.

[PeterHilton]

I know that the buys are very low or bad in comparison to the E, but I am talking about bad buys for TNA standards. The Slammiversary 7k one for example which was complete bs and I do view as "hate" along with the other stuff I mentioned. And yes agree on the revenue streams and those are improving given that tv rights are their main source of income and they just expanded to the middle east.

If they can't get the buys up around 20 K buys, they'd be better off working out a deal with Spike to do big shows every other month with some kind of bonus deal for the rating and ad revenue that 'special even't would draw.

Two hours on a Thursday night special where they can pay off their major storylines featuring much longer matches.

[PeterHilton]

This remains the most important. No matter how low their buys if it is more profitable to do ppv then television specials or nothing then from a short term profit standpoint they should keep doing ppv. Even if ppv is more profitable if the margin is not to big then it might be smart to move to more television specials as an aide to growing their fanbase. But this has been covered a lot.

Too bad a certain ref doesn't work in the ppv division or we could have asked maskedpropaganda lolz.

damn..i posted while you were posting this.

totally agree

[Hyde Hill]

Still as no one knows when TNA's ppv deals expire it is kind of moot talking about it just yet.

Still as you know I agree with you on that Peter that it should be seriously looked into.

Still I hope Xplosion becomes a full fledged B show on a different day with Reaction before or after it. That could really help revenue etc. BTW is Explosion in the new format shown in the US already or not? Would be interesting to know its ratings.

[Hyde Hill]

damn..i posted while you were posting this.

totally agree

Thoughts so. And yes this is padding the post count lolz.

[Hyde Hill]

AJ Styles has been named the top wrestler for 2010 on Pro Wrestling Illustrated's annual PWI 500 list. He becomes the first wrestler in TNA history to rank #1 on that list. Congratulations to the Phenomenal One! The issue hits newsstands August 3.

Credit to Pro Wrestling Scoops

from TNA Asylum.

If this is true: "excellent" Mr Burns finger motion. Hope Angle comes in second hehe. They are the two best out there atm in a major US promotion imho.

[Jaysin]

If it's not Kurt, I think Punk should take spot 2

[brashleyholland]

If they can't get the buys up around 20 K buys, they'd be better off working out a deal with Spike to do big shows every other month with some kind of bonus deal for the rating and ad revenue that 'special even't would draw.


I guess the only issue here would be switching back from a 'TV Special' model to a PPV model in the future. I know there was a bit of an issue a couple of years back between Spike and the UFC regarding getting the likes of Penn, Liddell, Couture, GSP etc on Fight Nights or TV specials. The problem being if people get used to seeing something for free, they will be very reluctant to pay for it in the future...especially if TNA continue to struggle ratings wise.

[Slagaholic]

Virtually no one is buying's TNA's PPVs in the first place. They need the most exposure possible to push those buyrates up.

If TNA was able to do both TV Specials and PPVs that would be best for them. Four big PPVs a year combined with 6-8 monthly specials. Which would mean a transition back to monthly PPVs would be much smoother.

[nucleardonkey]

I think most of you are missing the bigger picture or failing to realize a few key facts.

A: TNA does in terms of RAW vs. iMpact 1/3 the ratings on average. Obviously if TNA is pulling in 1/3 the audience of WWE then it is completely illogical to compare their buys to WWE's buys. I think most are so used to the numbers WWE pulls in they fail to realize TNA is a lot smaller than them and is a company that is still finding their niche. They are still finding their direction and of course along the way they will hit a rough patch or two.

B: Comparing wrestling to MMA is like comparing Football to Baseball. Sure they are similar in some ways but they are still 2 completely different sports and one's popularity in no way affects the other unless they were to be going head to head against each other and then it's pretty much the same as a sitcom going head to head with a cartoon.

C: We don't really know for sure what TNA's buys really are or how much they affect the bottom line. Fact is TNA could just be doing monthly PPV right now because that's what is expected of a company their size. It's been the norm in the wrestling business to do a big monthly PPV for as long as I can remember and unless WWE changes that or someone is able to rise above them into the number 1 spot and changes it themselves(doubtful it will ever happen WWE IS pro wrestling in the US and dethroning them will not happen as long as a McMahon is alive and in charge).

IF the buys are down for TNA right now then the main reason is simply that Bischoff is in charge and much like he did in WCW he's giving away major matches on TV for free. Who will pay for a dream match on PPV when it's been done 3 times on TV for free already? Bringing in RVD gave TNA atleast three dream matches/matches everyone knows will be great and they've given (IIRC) all but one of them away for free. Hell they gave two of the three big matches away in one episode of iMpact with no build up (Hardy vs. RVD then RVD vs. AJ) I can't remember if they have given away RVD vs. Mr. Anderson for free yet but I wouldn't put it past them.

[Slagaholic]

Dude TNA's buys have been awful since TNA began. Don't blame Bischoff.

Anyway, I skimmed through spoilers for next week and it sounds like it was another really good show. Things that stuck out to me:

Desmond Wolfe tags with Magnus on Xplosion

Velvet Sky was apparently kicked out of The Beautiful People in favor of Tara and Sarita

AJ Styles won the Global title

Nash and Jarrett are feuding

ECW guys have been given "total control" over Hard Justice. After Hard Justice the storyline is over.

When Abyss said "them" he didn't mean the ECW guys.

[lazorbeak]

I think most of you are missing the bigger picture or failing to realize a few key facts.

A: TNA does in terms of RAW vs. iMpact 1/3 the ratings on average. Obviously if TNA is pulling in 1/3 the audience of WWE then it is completely illogical to compare their buys to WWE's buys. I think most are so used to the numbers WWE pulls in they fail to realize TNA is a lot smaller than them and is a company that is still finding their niche. They are still finding their direction and of course along the way they will hit a rough patch or two.


Wait, what? It's "completely illogical" to compare TNA's buys to WWE's because WWE has 3X the audience on their flagship shows? That isn't how logic works.

And if we can't compare TNA to WWE, can we compare TNA against TNA 4 years ago, when their reported average was in the neighborhood of 25K buys? Obviously there may be other reasons at least partially explaining this drop but it's still a bad thing for your buy rates to go down even as you're spending more money and want to spend even more.

B: Comparing wrestling to MMA is like comparing Football to Baseball. Sure they are similar in some ways but they are still 2 completely different sports and one's popularity in no way affects the other unless they were to be going head to head against each other and then it's pretty much the same as a sitcom going head to head with a cartoon.

Yeah this isn't true either. The two markets do have substantial crossover appeal in fan-base and do compete with each other for a share of each other's pot so to argue that they are completely different sports that in no way effect each other is just false. Seriously it takes someone as out of touch as Vince McMahon to argue that they're not dealing in the same audiences.

Dude TNA's buys have been awful since TNA began. Don't blame Bischoff.

Anyway, I skimmed through spoilers for next week and it sounds like it was another really good show. Things that stuck out to me:


Wow your definition of "good show" must be substantially different from mine, because most of that looks absolutely awful. From guys winning belts that are below them to overbooked stable nonsense to old guys I don't want to see wrestle getting involved in programs with each other! Oh and even more rehashes of storylines more than 8 years old, done with substantially the same guys! Yessssss! TNA: We are Wrestling Re-Runs.

[Slagaholic]

You either don't watch TNA regularly or you're a silly goose.

[Self]

Those spoilers don't exactly rock my world either. Maybe I should give Impact another chance seeing as I enjoyed the PPV (despite some negative reviews elsewhere) but the results of the last couple of tapings don't sound like my cup of tea. Interested in the Beer Money/MCMG thing. Not much else.

[LiquidSwords]

It's a shame how bad the knockout division is now.

[HughBatey4]

I feel TNA is basically a lame duck company at this point. Wrestling at the local level is measured by attendance, but wrestling on the national level is measured by profit and TV ratings/PPV buyrates.

Has TNA ratings consistently gone up? No. Have they went up on a one-week basis and then went back to normal for months? Yes. Can TNA cause a spike in ratings for Impact? Yes. Can TNA cause a spike in ratings for Impact and keep it for an extended amount of time? Obviously not.

The problem with TNA is that they can get the audience to tune in; by signing Christian, bringing back Sting, et cetera; but they can't get them to come back next week, and the next, and the next. It's the bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, two strikes, three balls, two outs. TNA's up and a flyball right to the right fielder! Every time. At least in my case. TNA will get my attention and then immediately do something that makes me turn the product off. Not to say that WWE doesn't have bad booking, but this is the TNA discussion thread, not the WWE thread.

TNA has not established themselves as a brand. WWE has. WWE still draws, even without Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Steve Austin and many other major stars. TNA has Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Rob Van Dam, Jeff Hardy, Sting, Kevin Nash, Kurt Angle, and Jeff Jarrett; but people are not tuning in. It has nothing to do with the popularity of Hogan or the others, it's about the brand. Hogan could go to WWE tomorrow and get a hero's welcome, where on TNA, he's just another guy in the Impact Zone now. TNA hasn't established itself or wrestlers with it. They are beginning to now, with Styles, Abyss, Wolfe, Kazarian, and the other TNA guys that they are pushing, but in my opinion, it's too little, too late.

TV ratings and PPV buyrates don't lie. If the rumored PPV buyrates are true, then it's probably killing TNA to do PPV. TNA should drop PPVs, maybe not completely but possibly transition to a three or four shows a year model until buyrates are built to a respectable level.

[Hyde Hill]

I think most of you are missing the bigger picture or failing to realize a few key facts.

A: TNA does in terms of RAW vs. iMpact 1/3 the ratings on average. Obviously if TNA is pulling in 1/3 the audience of WWE then it is completely illogical to compare their buys to WWE's buys. I think most are so used to the numbers WWE pulls in they fail to realize TNA is a lot smaller than them and is a company that is still finding their niche. They are still finding their direction and of course along the way they will hit a rough patch or two.

B: Comparing wrestling to MMA is like comparing Football to Baseball. Sure they are similar in some ways but they are still 2 completely different sports and one's popularity in no way affects the other unless they were to be going head to head against each other and then it's pretty much the same as a sitcom going head to head with a cartoon.

C: We don't really know for sure what TNA's buys really are or how much they affect the bottom line. Fact is TNA could just be doing monthly PPV right now because that's what is expected of a company their size. It's been the norm in the wrestling business to do a big monthly PPV for as long as I can remember and unless WWE changes that or someone is able to rise above them into the number 1 spot and changes it themselves(doubtful it will ever happen WWE IS pro wrestling in the US and dethroning them will not happen as long as a McMahon is alive and in charge).

IF the buys are down for TNA right now then the main reason is simply that Bischoff is in charge and much like he did in WCW he's giving away major matches on TV for free. Who will pay for a dream match on PPV when it's been done 3 times on TV for free already? Bringing in RVD gave TNA atleast three dream matches/matches everyone knows will be great and they've given (IIRC) all but one of them away for free. Hell they gave two of the three big matches away in one episode of iMpact with no build up (Hardy vs. RVD then RVD vs. AJ) I can't remember if they have given away RVD vs. Mr. Anderson for free yet but I wouldn't put it past them.

Most????? And yeah Bisch has nothing to do with this. As far as competition goes everything that is either entertainment or sports is competition, the closer the product is in terms of who they appeal to and with what they appeal to potential customers the closer the competition. While MMA competition might be overstated by some, especially fanboys like Meltzer, it is still competition.

[juggaloninjalee]

The point made about TNA's top stars being really over and how Hogan would get a hero's welcome in WWE is true. People just don't know about TNA. Most fans like us want MORE WRESTLING than old rehashed storylines.

I do love TNA though as it reminds me of the last good days of WCW before they completely went to crap. TNA has watchable shows and stars worth getting behind.

TNA has me.

[Linsolv]

TNA has not established themselves as a brand. WWE has. WWE still draws, even without Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Steve Austin and many other major stars. TNA has Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Rob Van Dam, Jeff Hardy, Sting, Kevin Nash, Kurt Angle, and Jeff Jarrett; but people are not tuning in. It has nothing to do with the popularity of Hogan or the others, it's about the brand. Hogan could go to WWE tomorrow and get a hero's welcome, where on TNA, he's just another guy in the Impact Zone now. TNA hasn't established itself or wrestlers with it. They are beginning to now, with Styles, Abyss, Wolfe, Kazarian, and the other TNA guys that they are pushing, but in my opinion, it's too little, too late.

TV ratings and PPV buyrates don't lie. If the rumored PPV buyrates are true, then it's probably killing TNA to do PPV. TNA should drop PPVs, maybe not completely but possibly transition to a three or four shows a year model until buyrates are built to a respectable level.

When we compare to the stars that WWE has running around, some recently made and some not, it's not much comparison again. Sorry, but people were being made while Michaels, the Rock, Austin, Lesnar, etc etc were around to hold down the fort, and having a history of viewership means that if, by percentage, the WWE stars were equally over with their crowd as the TNA stars with theirs, that would make the WWE stars insanely over and the TNA stars little-known by comparison.

On the other hand, the PPVs seem to me to be almost just like a really long iMPACT with more wrestling, to me. They do them in the iMPACT Zone, without a whole lot of better production values. I'd guess the cost of an episode and the cost of a PPV are comparable, and they're making money from 100,000 up. But it's just a theory.

[juggaloninjalee]

When we compare to the stars that WWE has running around, some recently made and some not, it's not much comparison again. Sorry, but people were being made while Michaels, the Rock, Austin, Lesnar, etc etc were around to hold down the fort, and having a history of viewership means that if, by percentage, the WWE stars were equally over with their crowd as the TNA stars with theirs, that would make the WWE stars insanely over and the TNA stars little-known by comparison.

On the other hand, the PPVs seem to me to be almost just like a really long iMPACT with more wrestling, to me. They do them in the iMPACT Zone, without a whole lot of better production values. I'd guess the cost of an episode and the cost of a PPV are comparable, and they're making money from 100,000 up. But it's just a theory.

I think you are spot on in the talent comparison. Sad and very unfortunate though. Kurt Angle would be top 3 in WWE today. He would be legend status. In TNA though he goes unseen by most wrestling fans.

[PeterHilton]

Virtually no one is buying's TNA's PPVs in the first place. They need the most exposure possible to push those buyrates up.

If TNA was able to do both TV Specials and PPVs that would be best for them. Four big PPVs a year combined with 6-8 monthly specials. Which would mean a transition back to monthly PPVs would be much smoother.

Totally agree with this

I think most of you are missing the bigger picture or failing to realize a few key facts.

A: TNA does in terms of RAW vs. iMpact 1/3 the ratings on average. Obviously if TNA is pulling in 1/3 the audience of WWE then it is completely illogical to compare their buys to WWE's buys. I think most are so used to the numbers WWE pulls in they fail to realize TNA is a lot smaller than them and is a company that is still finding their niche. They are still finding their direction and of course along the way they will hit a rough patch or two.

B: Comparing wrestling to MMA is like comparing Football to Baseball. Sure they are similar in some ways but they are still 2 completely different sports and one's popularity in no way affects the other unless they were to be going head to head against each other and then it's pretty much the same as a sitcom going head to head with a cartoon.

C: We don't really know for sure what TNA's buys really are or how much they affect the bottom line. Fact is TNA could just be doing monthly PPV right now because that's what is expected of a company their size. It's been the norm in the wrestling business to do a big monthly PPV for as long as I can remember and unless WWE changes that or someone is able to rise above them into the number 1 spot and changes it themselves(doubtful it will ever happen WWE IS pro wrestling in the US and dethroning them will not happen as long as a McMahon is alive and in charge).

IF the buys are down for TNA right now then the main reason is simply that Bischoff is in charge and much like he did in WCW he's giving away major matches on TV for free. Who will pay for a dream match on PPV when it's been done 3 times on TV for free already? Bringing in RVD gave TNA atleast three dream matches/matches everyone knows will be great and they've given (IIRC) all but one of them away for free. Hell they gave two of the three big matches away in one episode of iMpact with no build up (Hardy vs. RVD then RVD vs. AJ) I can't remember if they have given away RVD vs. Mr. Anderson for free yet but I wouldn't put it past them.

A. No one was comparing the buys to WWE buy rates. They were comparing them to buy rates from the past or mentioning that their buys are low regardless of how 'big' the company is.

Listen..if you are getting @ a 1.0 on national TV and the best you can do is roughly 10 k buys,that's bad no matter how you slice it.

B. This is the kind of thing Vince spouts off. You are competing against MMA/UFC because the viewing audience is similar and because both use a PPV model which means that most fans are deciding on a monthly basis to pay for a TNA, WWE, or UFC show.

C. true. althugh there have been educated guesses around forever.

Lastly, it's not Bischoff because the buy rates have always been relatively poor. If anything, maybe Eric is smart enough to realize TNA makes more money off of TV so it's more worthwhile to fight to raise he TV ratings.

I think you are spot on in the talent comparison. Sad and very unfortunate though. Kurt Angle would be top 3 in WWE today. He would be legend status. In TNA though he goes unseen by most wrestling fans.

It's sad because by now Kurt would've had the greatest 3 disc DVD set ever. :(

His call though...Kurt is in TNA because of HIS personal issues.

[MasterJ]

But people are just speculating here because no one knows how many people are buy ing PPVs they have never released buy rate so there is no way at all the best way imo would be to compare what WWE's buyrates are, and they have less than 5% of there TV Audience buy their PPV's based on the last PPV numbers I read yesterday so with the TNA I would say TNA gets 65K PPV that imo would be they best way of doing it Im sure its not exact and too high but none of us can do anything but guess.

[PeterHilton]

But people are just speculating here because no one knows how many people are buy ing PPVs they have never released buy rate so there is no way at all the best way imo would be to compare what WWE's buyrates are, and they have less than 5% of there TV Audience buy their PPV's based on the last PPV numbers I read yesterday so with the TNA I would say TNA gets 65K PPV that imo would be they best way of doing it Im sure its not exact and too high but none of us can do anything but guess.

THEY haven't released numbers but there have been estimates for years. And those estimates come from people who know enough about the industry that you can't just dismiss them entirely. They aren't "guessing" any more than any other journalist or writer could be described as guessing.

You make a good analogy though. And that's the problem for TNA: around 5% of the E's TV audience buys PPVs.

So if you use that as a basis, TNA should be around 65 K buys

They've NEVER sniffed that. Ever. Never come close. No estimated buy rate has been in that neighborhood.

Even if you say that sites like Wrestling Observer are WAAAAAY off when they say there were 10 K buys...how off could they be? Off by half? a third? That'd still be only 20-30 K.

but again..TNA is built on TV so maybe it doesn't matter. And if it doesn't, then maybe it's time to move to TV specials.

[MasterJ]

THEY haven't released numbers but there have been estimates for years. And those estimates come from people who know enough about the industry that you can't just dismiss them entirely. They aren't "guessing" any more than any other journalist or writer could be described as guessing.

You make a good analogy though. And that's the problem for TNA: around 5% of the E's TV audience buys PPVs.

So if you use that as a basis, TNA should be around 65 K buys

They've NEVER sniffed that. Ever. Never come close. No estimated buy rate has been in that neighborhood.

Even if you say that sites like Wrestling Observer are WAAAAAY off when they say there were 10 K buys...how off could they be? Off by half? a third? That'd still be only 20-30 K.

but again..TNA is built on TV so maybe it doesn't matter. And if it doesn't, then maybe it's time to move to TV specials.

I understand what your saying and yea I knew the number I came out with was pretty big I dont however believe that TNA only draws 10k. I think 25-35K could be a estimate but I do think they should do TV Specials once they are steady getting 1.5 and up it they are not losing too much money on PPV. I would love to see Clash of the Champion type stuff for TNA and if they could but the specials on like their PPVs have been lately they will imo gain alot of fans the thing with the specials is when they are scheduled for TV. I think they should put them on Tuesdays or Sundays since those two days don't have any top drawing shows on that i know of, but knowing TNA they would but it up against Raw and it would defeat any reason to have the shows in the first place.

[ampulator]

I want to point out that PPV is pretty much a dying medium for anything that's pre-recorded (movies, film, etc), because the internet has trumped it.

However, for live events, this isn't really the case (except in the case of PPV mass-viewings, either a PPV party or a live internet feed).

However, because Wrestling is scripted, it's at half-way point. It's no way going to make as much money as a true live event (MMA), but it's not going to do as much as pre-recorded stuff either.

In any case, even UFC is expanding onto TV these days. There might come a time when PPV's are no longer money-makers, so even they might have to transition out of PPV's.

I think the quality of the PPV's are an issue in the low buyrates, but it's not the long term issue. The long term issue is PPV's aren't exactly the strongest medium these days.

Oh, and MasterJ? Your arguments are full of faults, and lack facts to back it up. Just because you BELIEVE something is one way, doesn't mean it is. You have to have good arguments and/or evidence.

Besides, I can't read your run-on paragraphs.

[MasterJ]

I want to point out that PPV is pretty much a dying medium for anything that's pre-recorded (movies, film, etc), because the internet has trumped it.

However, for live events, this isn't really the case (except in the case of PPV mass-viewings, either a PPV party or a live internet feed).

However, because Wrestling is scripted, it's at half-way point. It's no way going to make as much money as a true live event (MMA), but it's not going to do as much as pre-recorded stuff either.

In any case, even UFC is expanding onto TV these days. There might come a time when PPV's are no longer money-makers, so even they might have to transition out of PPV's.

I think the quality of the PPV's are an issue in the low buyrates, but it's not the long term issue. The long term issue is PPV's aren't exactly the strongest medium these days.

Oh, and MasterJ? Your arguments are full of faults, and lack facts to back it up. Just because you BELIEVE something is one way, doesn't mean it is. You have to have good arguments and/or evidence.

Besides, I can't read your run-on paragraphs.

Please tell me how? I didnt say that they were TNA's PPV Buyrates I said that if you wanted to have some kind of logic thats what you could do If you are disagreeing with the WWE numbers I use I could give you the proof or do you want me to show you the math I did? Please explain

[Jaysin]

Please tell me how? I didnt say that they were TNA's PPV Buyrates I said that if you wanted to have some kind of logic thats what you could do If you are disagreeing with the WWE numbers I use I could give you the proof or do you want me to show you the math I did? Please explain

It's pretty hard to understand what you're saying when you don't use punctuation. I'm not even a stickler for that sort of thing, but your previous post was just atrocious.

[MasterJ]

It's pretty hard to understand what you're saying when you don't use punctuation. I'm not even a stickler for that sort of thing, but your previous post was just atrocious.

There you go its edited:rolleyes:

[nucleardonkey]

In all honesty this just sounds like a lot of the same thing that's been said about TNA since the beginning and look at how far they've come.

Obviously if the buys were as dismal as everyone is making them out to be then something would have been done already to save the company from death. I think a lot of people like to jump to worst case scenario and not see the bigger picture.

The entire wrestling industry is down at the moment and nothing is really going to change that until the audience is ready to come back or something happens to get mass attention in a positive way. Sadly I think Chris Benoit may have made the prospect of wrestling doing anything good to get some mass attention nearly impossible but even the smallest mistake made by a wrestler outside the ring just pushes the entire industry even further down.

[PeterHilton]

In all honesty this just sounds like a lot of the same thing that's been said about TNA since the beginning and look at how far they've come.

Obviously if the buys were as dismal as everyone is making them out to be then something would have been done already to save the company from death. I think a lot of people like to jump to worst case scenario and not see the bigger picture.

The entire wrestling industry is down at the moment and nothing is really going to change that until the audience is ready to come back or something happens to get mass attention in a positive way. Sadly I think Chris Benoit may have made the prospect of wrestling doing anything good to get some mass attention nearly impossible but even the smallest mistake made by a wrestler outside the ring just pushes the entire industry even further down.

You know what...i don't even think you're reading what people are saying.

Seriously...NO ONE IN THE LAST FEW PAGES HAS SAID THAT TNA NEEDS TO BE SAVED. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT A WORST CASE SCENARIO.

Read through the thread. There's not many people on this board jumping on the 'TNA is dying' internet bullsh*t bandwagon.

They can't die anytime soon because they have a great TV deal and good revenue coming in internationally. TNA has done a wonderful jump of getting themselves rightside up financially, even with the mistakes they made early on in their existence. And their ratings have bounced back on Thursday despite the debacle that was the first few months of the Bischoff/Hogan era.

This isn't about piling on TNA. This is a perfectly legitimate back-and-forth about TNA's buy rates (which are and always have been relatively low) and whether or not it even makes sense to continue doing PPVs considering how much money they make with their Spike deal.

Forchsissakes...you make one little comment about low buy rates and all of a sudden the wrestling industry is low because of Benoit blahblahblah...

[PeterHilton]

It IS possible to be critical of a company without wishing death on that company or being a hater.

It IS also possible to be a fan of a company while still admitting they make a mistake.

It's cool.

[Stennick]

Ampulater,

I don't agree that Wrestling is at the "halfway" between movies not selling on ppv anymore and true live events like concerts, mma and boxing.

Wrestling being scripted has nothing to do with anything. Its not like entire scripts leak for pro wrestling before the show airs. Even the people that do read the dirt sheets don't even know who's going to win most of the time. Nobody thought Cena would beat HHH for the title at WM, nobody thought HHH would job to Benoit at WM. Even recently the wrestling world was turned on its ear when Cena lost to Sheamous.

What I mean is that it being scripted has nothing to do with how profitable on ppv it is. If anything it works in its favor.

For instance MMA just did a huge Rashad vs. Rampage fight and a huge Brock vs. Carwin fight. Now I'm not the bigget MMA guy in the world but I know that these next few fights are going to draw smaller numbers since their bigger named guys have just all fought.

Wrestling has the luxary of wheeling Cena out there 12 times or more a year on pay per view. Brock fights what three times a year on pay per view?

There is no doubt the two are in competition. Aside from the fan base which is an arguable point they both derive a lot of their profits from pay per view buys and such. When you have two people charging top dollar once a month to watch something on pay per view in this economy you're not buying both, you're choosing one.

However again Wrestling being scripted has nothing to do with how effective on pay per view it is. If anything I think it helps. Its the perfect blend of scripted and live to where you can control what happens but nobody else knows until you buy it.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

For instance MMA just did a huge Rashad vs. Rampage fight and a huge Brock vs. Carwin fight. Now I'm not the bigget MMA guy in the world but I know that these next few fights are going to draw smaller numbers since their bigger named guys have just all fought.

Wrestling has the luxary of wheeling Cena out there 12 times or more a year on pay per view. Brock fights what three times a year on pay per view?

Not sure what you're getting at with that. Even the smallest UFC ppv beats WWE(Non WM). When Brock fights they are bigger numbers than Mania.

[haloed]

Ampulater,

I don't agree that Wrestling is at the "halfway" between movies not selling on ppv anymore and true live events like concerts, mma and boxing.

Wrestling being scripted has nothing to do with anything. Its not like entire scripts leak for pro wrestling before the show airs. Even the people that do read the dirt sheets don't even know who's going to win most of the time. Nobody thought Cena would beat HHH for the title at WM, nobody thought HHH would job to Benoit at WM. Even recently the wrestling world was turned on its ear when Cena lost to Sheamous.

What I mean is that it being scripted has nothing to do with how profitable on ppv it is. If anything it works in its favor.

For instance MMA just did a huge Rashad vs. Rampage fight and a huge Brock vs. Carwin fight. Now I'm not the bigget MMA guy in the world but I know that these next few fights are going to draw smaller numbers since their bigger named guys have just all fought.

Wrestling has the luxary of wheeling Cena out there 12 times or more a year on pay per view. Brock fights what three times a year on pay per view?

There is no doubt the two are in competition. Aside from the fan base which is an arguable point they both derive a lot of their profits from pay per view buys and such. When you have two people charging top dollar once a month to watch something on pay per view in this economy you're not buying both, you're choosing one.

However again Wrestling being scripted has nothing to do with how effective on pay per view it is. If anything I think it helps. Its the perfect blend of scripted and live to where you can control what happens but nobody else knows until you buy it.

Not to mention you won't see a lucky shot end the show. You pretty much know with wrestling that you are going to get nearly 3 hours of entertainment. With MMA or boxing for that matter, a fight could be over in a matter of seconds.

Now I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying why I would rather spend my money on a wrestling PPV than MMA or boxing.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Not to mention you won't see a lucky shot end the show. You pretty much know with wrestling that you are going to get nearly 3 hours of entertainment. With MMA or boxing for that matter, a fight could be over in a matter of seconds.

Now I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying why I would rather spend my money on a wrestling PPV than MMA or boxing.

Didn't WWE's last ppv end after about 2h 15m or something? :p

[justtxyank]

Not to mention you won't see a lucky shot end the show. You pretty much know with wrestling that you are going to get nearly 3 hours of entertainment. With MMA or boxing for that matter, a fight could be over in a matter of seconds.

Now I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying why I would rather spend my money on a wrestling PPV than MMA or boxing.

I'd rather pay to watch ballet than boxing because I don't have to worry about the ballet ending early. :confused:

[Jaysin]

You know what I really hate? When the "news" sites post spoilers in the headline! I should have to click the freaking link if I want to know what happens. I don't read Impact spoilers, and I shouldn't have to start because some assclown on a site decides to post a headline with the spoiler...

TNA News: A title changes hands at the TNA Impact taping (spoiler) *highlight to read*

I know they didn't specify which they're talking about, but still. It takes away from the surprise of it happening when I watch Thursday or Friday.

[MasterJ]

I agree I would rather pay for a wrestling ppv than a boxing/mma (more so boxing) because I'll get at least the show I payed for as in time noted I've had bad exprinces ordering some Tyson fights that were hyped up pretty good and then ended as soon as I sat down with my beer. In wrestling the cards are stronger than boxing too, so I and most people I know pay to see the main fight and when it ends 30 seconds into the first round it's not worthmy money.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I agree I would rather pay for a wrestling ppv than a boxing/mma (more so boxing) because I'll get at least the show I payed for as in time noted I've had bad exprinces ordering some Tyson fights that were hyped up pretty good and then ended as soon as I sat down with my beer. In wrestling the cards are stronger than boxing too, so I and most people I know pay to see the main fight and when it ends 30 seconds into the first round it's not worthmy money.

Cards being stronger is very subjective. The casual fan who only orders the Tyson fight won't know the undercard fighters(Not saying you are, but I get that impression). That doesn't mean they aren't good.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

You know what I really hate? When the "news" sites post spoilers in the headline! I should have to click the freaking link if I want to know what happens. I don't read Impact spoilers, and I shouldn't have to start because some assclown on a site decides to post a headline with the spoiler...


I know they didn't specify which they're talking about, but still. It takes away from the surprise of it happening when I watch Thursday or Friday.

Its quite hilarious that they put (spoiler) at the end of the headline.

[Jaysin]

Its quite hilarious that they put (spoiler) at the end of the headline.

I know! That pissed me off even more.

[haloed]

Didn't WWE's last ppv end after about 2h 15m or something? :p

Wouldn't know, not a huge fan of WWE.



I'd rather pay to watch ballet than boxing because I don't have to worry about the ballet ending early. :confused:

What does ballet have to do with anything? I'm just saying with wrestling I generally know what I'm going to get. With MMA or boxing, that one bout that you were really looking foward to could end before it really ever gets going and I'd feel cheated.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Wouldn't know, not a huge fan of WWE.





What does ballet have to do with anything? I'm just saying with wrestling I generally know what I'm going to get. With MMA or boxing, that one bout that you were really looking foward to could end before it really ever gets going and I'd feel cheated.

I guess, but alot of people are hoping to see the big KO punch too. I know you are only talking about your own opinion though.

[Stennick]

Not sure what you're getting at with that. Even the smallest UFC ppv beats WWE(Non WM). When Brock fights they are bigger numbers than Mania.

I agree that UFC puts out bigger pay per view numbers than the WWE but there are SEVERAL reasons for that.

One if you want to see your top fighters fight you have to buy pay per view. There isn't what six or seven hours or MMA progamming featuring the top stars in their respective business like there is with the WWE. You got RAW two hours, Smackdown 2 hours, Superstars, etc. All of these feature the big time wrestlers and a lot of times you get some sort of big time match up. Not too mention if you miss a WWE pay per view you can always catch John Cena in the next months ppv.

So there are several reasons why MMA and Boxing pop bigger buyrates. Money Mayweather fights once a year doesn't he?

So what I'm getting at is that although MMA puts out bigger numbers than pro wrestling for ppv there is a reason for this. Some of it is that MMA right now is just as if not more popular than pro wrestling. That combined with the way the ppv's are set up and how often you get to see your favorite fighter or fighters along with that being essentially the only way you see the main event fighters fight. To where as you can close your eyes and point to a day of the week and there is a good chance pro wrestling's top stars are on television that night.

MMA is great, I love it and I watch the big fights. However my argument was when Ampulator said that Wrestling was at half disadvantage and half advantage for being on ppv while MMA is at full advantage due to pro wrestling being scripted.

I was pointining out why MMA has the advantage over pro wrestling in ppv and it has nothing to do with pro wrestling being scripted. My argument was if anything that helps pro wrestling in the pay per view scene.

[PeterHilton]

I agree I would rather pay for a wrestling ppv than a boxing/mma (more so boxing) because I'll get at least the show I payed for as in time noted I've had bad exprinces ordering some Tyson fights that were hyped up pretty good and then ended as soon as I sat down with my beer. In wrestling the cards are stronger than boxing too, so I and most people I know pay to see the main fight and when it ends 30 seconds into the first round it's not worthmy money.


What does ballet have to do with anything? I'm just saying with wrestling I generally know what I'm going to get. With MMA or boxing, that one bout that you were really looking foward to could end before it really ever gets going and I'd feel cheated.

C'mon fellas...I know it's just a preference, but it's a SPORT. Of course there are going to be unexpectedly short endings every once in a while. :p

[Jaysin]

http://www.tnawrestling.com/media/k2/galleries/2054/cover.jpg

:D

[Self]

Really? AJ? I mean, he's had some nice matches, but his promos are mediocre and he's in the midst of a barely passable heel run. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire this year.

Then again. Who has?

[Slagaholic]

That's your opinion.

I think AJ's heel act is awesome and he's cut better promos in the past year than he has in his entire career. He held the World title for 211 days. I think he's had quite a few better than "nice matches."

Why do you think his heel run is barely passable? He's getting heat isn't he? The crowd is booing him right? Fans pay to see him don't they?

I don't understand the hate for heel AJ, I think he's done a very good job and his heel act is getting better and better.

If you could go into greater detail as to why you don't think AJ deserved the top spot and who you think would have been the better choice, it'd be greatly appreciated.

[Self]

It's not 'hate' I have for heel AJ. I quite like his comedy schtick. I thought his little thing with Kaz at the PPV was adorable. I don't think anyone's "paying to see him" in the traditional heel sense, but he's entertaining enough.

As for other options... You may have me there. Everyone I can think of has had major lulls in their year. Jericho got stale and faded away. Batista's heel run was phenomenal, but short and no smarks will ever put him high on a 'best wrestler' list. CM Punk's character work has been more sustained, but he's consistently out of the title picture. Orton's babyface turn fizzled. Jeff Hardy in TNA is nothing to get excited about. Angle's been hurt. Shawn Michaels retired.

Maybe we are down to AJ. Which I find a bit surprising, and I rate him high, but not 'number one' high. Granted, I rate character as far more important than ring work (woo woo woo) so my views probably differ from the folks putting together that list. My memory of TNA is also fairly patchy. I guess the year also includes pre-Hogan era, with AJ and Angle having those great matches and the Daniels-Joe threeway. Those were pretty awesome.

[PeterHilton]

That's your opinion.

I think AJ's heel act is awesome and he's cut better promos in the past year than he has in his entire career. He held the World title for 211 days. I think he's had quite a few better than "nice matches."

Why do you think his heel run is barely passable? He's getting heat isn't he? The crowd is booing him right? Fans pay to see him don't they?

I don't understand the hate for heel AJ, I think he's done a very good job and his heel act is getting better and better.

If you could go into greater detail as to why you don't think AJ deserved the top spot and who you think would have been the better choice, it'd be greatly appreciated.

I'd be curious about the timeframe. Because if it includes the months before Hogan/Eric when AJ was wrestling against Angle and Sting, and the PPv matches against Daniels and Joe & Daniels then I'm totally with it.

[LoganRodzen]

Didn't WWE's last ppv end after about 2h 15m or something? :p

I'm pretty sure that's why MITB has a full card (7 matches) now. They've really dropped the ball with PPVs by only hyping about four matches every time.

[lazorbeak]

Why do you think his heel run is barely passable? He's getting heat isn't he? The crowd is booing him right? Fans pay to see him don't they?

I don't understand the hate for heel AJ, I think he's done a very good job and his heel act is getting better and better.

If you could go into greater detail as to why you don't think AJ deserved the top spot and who you think would have been the better choice, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Uh, no? By and large, nobody's paying to see him.

But seriously, there's half a dozen guys that would easily be better choices. Chris Jericho was an incredible heel act and had show stealing matches with Mysterio all summer before making tag team wrestling relevant again. Shawn Michaels was in hands down the greatest match of 2009, and probably the top match of 2010 so far. CM Punk had some great matches with Hardy in the main event before forming the SES. Hardy in 2009 was a breakout star, even if he managed to piss it away by the end of the year.

Not to knock AJ but it's not as though no one else can make a case.

[Stennick]

Yeah nobody is paying to see AJ and Jericho had just as many memorable matches this year and his mic work is better. Jericho gets heat literally around the country from 20,000 people. AJ gets heat from a few thousand in the same studio mostly the same night or two of the month.

[ampulator]

I'm not that a huge of a MMA fan, but even I know that the unpredictability of the sport (which is what it is), is much better than professional wreslting, which is scripted. You can guess what happens in wrestling. It's much harder to do with MMA. It's very nature means it's possible, however unlikely, a legit upset will happen, and has happened before. It's same for any legit sport... you can believe that upsets can happen, however unlikely. I never thought Spain would beat Netherlands in the World Cup 2010.

Wrestling can't have that, in a world of mass media. It is what is. And people are paying less to see something they already pretty much know is going to be the same outcome.

As for Sheamus beating Cena, well, yes, no one thought he would. But few cared. The ones that cared, only cared because they finally saw Cena got beaten. Cena's fans knows he's going to get back pretty soon. It's not like he hasn't done this pattern before, with Randy Orton or Triple H.

But that's beside the point. The point is, WWE is going to less and less at PPV's... and that's normal, because the internet is trumping PPV's as a mass media. That's all there it is to it.

[Charasmatic Enigma]

I never thought Spain would beat Netherlands in the World Cup 2010.

A little off topic, but I've got to ask... You do realise Spain were run away favourites to win the final right?

[Self]

I'm not that a huge of a MMA fan, but even I know that the unpredictability of the sport (which is what it is), is much better than professional wreslting, which is scripted. You can guess what happens in wrestling. It's much harder to do with MMA. It's very nature means it's possible, however unlikely, a legit upset will happen, and has happened before. It's same for any legit sport... you can believe that upsets can happen, however unlikely. I never thought Spain would beat Netherlands in the World Cup 2010.

Wrestling can't have that, in a world of mass media. It is what is. And people are paying less to see something they already pretty much know is going to be the same outcome.

You're not wrong. Predictability is a factor, but not a crippling one. How many by-the-numbers rom-coms have hit big at the box office? Every single person walking into the cinema knows that the guy's gonna get the girl in the end, but people still come out to see it because the scenario connects to them emotionally. How many sports movies have teamed up a rag-tag band of misfits to succeed in the big game over their well-funded rivals? Hell, the new Karate Kid movie is a straight-up remake of the original, but it still did really well in the box office, because it's a time-tested story with a hero that folks can root for.

You're not wrong, the unpredictability of sports is a good draw, but I think in entertainment you can afford to be a bit predictable if the writing and the acting and the characters (and in this case the wrestling) are good enough.

[ampulator]

A little off topic, but I've got to ask... You do realise Spain were run away favourites to win the final right?
Not the crowd of people I was with. ;)

In any case, my main point, again, is PPV's plain do not do as well as they used to, and that's normal, because the internet has trumped it. It's pretty much only useful for live events (boxing, wrestling, MMA). (Side-note: It makes me wonder why no Soccer or American Football has ever been on PPV.)

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Not the crowd of people I was with. ;)

In any case, my main point, again, is PPV's plain do not do as well as they used to, and that's normal, because the internet has trumped it. It's pretty much only useful for live events (boxing, wrestling, MMA). (Side-note: It makes me wonder why no Soccer or American Football has ever been on PPV.)

Probably because the money paid by TV companies matches what they would get from PPV. I'm rather surprised the Super Bowl has never been considered to go to PPV(to my knowledge).

[ampulator]

Probably because the money paid by TV companies matches what they would get from PPV. I'm rather surprised the Super Bowl has never been considered to go to PPV(to my knowledge).
I can understand why they won't go PPV now. PPV doesn't make as much as it used to, but the bigger reason I think is because being on TV has become the norm. They go PPV now, they are going to anger a lot of people... and a lot of networks.

[Slagaholic]

Uh, no? By and large, nobody's paying to see him.

But seriously, there's half a dozen guys that would easily be better choices. Chris Jericho was an incredible heel act and had show stealing matches with Mysterio all summer before making tag team wrestling relevant again. Shawn Michaels was in hands down the greatest match of 2009, and probably the top match of 2010 so far. CM Punk had some great matches with Hardy in the main event before forming the SES. Hardy in 2009 was a breakout star, even if he managed to piss it away by the end of the year.

Not to knock AJ but it's not as though no one else can make a case.

I didn't say no one could make a case. I was just asking him to make one.

Seems you made one, that I don't agree with either. But you're entitled to your opinion.

[Stennick]

Slag is this one of those "my personal opinion rates this guy higher than this guy regardless of anything" deals or is there another reason you wouldn't give Jericho the nod over AJ for the year.

I mean AJ's drawing heat and his promos aren't bad but its pretty clear to see from the robe, to the frosted tips (who does that in 2010 anyway), they want AJ to be more than Flair's protege they almost want him to be Flair. He gets heat in Orlando but its pretty easy to get heat when you tape four shows in front of two audiences, in the same studio on back to back nights.

I'd say thats the biggest reason for me TNA guys have a disadvantage when being ranked in "overall" status is because they aren't tested the way even ROH guys are tested. They tape four shows in one or two nights of the week in front of largely the same audience.

Now these things aren't their fault but if we're ranking all time greats in other sports over multiple generations there are factors that come into play that aren't the athlete's fault.

Personally Chris Jericho in my opinion put on just as many great matches, he had massive heat everywhere he went with everything he did. For me atleast he put on the best match of Wrestlemania. I think the guy deserved it more so than AJ who is fantastic but I don't think he's the best wrestler going today.

[Slagaholic]

AJ was the #1 guy in TNA through most of the past year holding the title for over 200 days. AJ's character is nothing like Ric Flair's character, unless you think that Flair's character is entirely the robe and frosted tips.

If you are going to hold being in Orlando against AJ and at the same time jack off Jericho receiving "massive" heat in 20,000 seat arenas I don't think you think this is the Wrestler of the Year but WWE Wrestler of the Year. Of course every bit of heat that someone as well known as Jericho generates will seem "massive." Jericho is very good at what he does and does it for the biggest wrestling promotion ever. As long as TNA tapes in Orlando would any TNA wrestler ever be worthy of this award in your opinion? You seem to be a real stickler for holding TNA taping "four shows in two nights" against every one of their wrestlers. Even though what you're saying is completely untrue (they tape on the first two Mondays and Tuesdays after a PPV)

AJ has successfully gotten heat on the road as well so you can't really minimalize his talents into just "well he did it in the Impact Zone therefore any heat he gets doesn't count." He stopped being Flair II a month after turning heel. Since then he's been a completely different type of heel character.

What do you mean they aren't tested? TNA guys aren't tested as much as the top WWE guys are tested? I suppose that's fair enough to say. But let's not act like WWE crowds are impossible to please. The WWE's audience is trained for the most part. These days the top guys just need their theme music to hit before the crowd goes insane. "BREAK THE WALLS DOOOWWWNNN" *Pavlovian boos* One helluva test!

You can like Jericho all you want. I think AJ is a good choice to win, and he won. This is a stupid magazine that no one buys anyway.

[Stennick]

You know Slag I wasn't trying to get all pissed off about some stupid magazine I was asking your opinion and instead of conveying it in an intelligent manor you had to get upset and say I was "jacking off" Jericho and mocking my post. So instead of a rebuttal I'd like to take this time to let you know your an over sensitive jack ass who takes this board entirely too seriously when you get upset over a question. Nobody attacked you personally and I certainly wasn't mocking you I was asking a genuine question. So you take care oh master of the pro wrestling world, I'll slowly step back into the shadows now I'd hate to offend you anymore. You're always on here some some aggressive, mocking, holier than thou attitude towards everyone. Most of the time it goes ignored like the rest of the stupidity on these boards but I decided to waste three minutes of my time to let you know your an ass that does nothing to better the community on these boards. Have a good one.

[LoganRodzen]

In my opinion... they need to get out of the Impact Zone or they'll never grow at any pace at all. Real life doesn't work like TEW. You can't run your TV show in one area over and over hoping it'll raise your popularity in the other areas. The only way that 1.0 rating will go up is if they take Impact on the road and give back to the fans around the country instead of ONLY the Floridians (tourists too?). Just imagine how many more tickets would be sold at the little arenas TNA are doing for house shows if they labeled the shows as TV tapings or even live TV? A couple hundred more tickets sold I'd imagine.

Its pretty much the size of the Hammerstein Ballroom. I'd love to ask Bischoff (who ripped on ECW for running small buildings), "how do you like the cool-aid drinking, bingo hall idiots in Florida? Are they better then the ones in Philly or NYC?" Not even going to get started on that crowd. Though they haven't been as (keyword) horrible lately.

[Self]

I actually dig the Impact Zone. I know wrestling promotions are 'supposed to' be nomadic and circus-like, but I'm a fan of the idea of shooting in a controlled, regular location, week-after-week. You ensure an audience that is up-to-date with the current product, and I'm sure it's a lot easier on their production department to not have to lug the sets around to a different city every week. I can only imagine what WWE spends on transport.

It might be time for a second, bigger soundstage for PPV's. Something you can made look different. Or a foothold in another part of the country. Add 'Impact Zone Los Angeles' and alternate between the two. If rumours are true (and it's not something I pay massive attention to) money is an issue right now, but that's what I'd consider.

[Stennick]

Its funny because in his book he said his plans for WCW's rebirth was to run at like the Hard Rock Cafe or something of that nature. I haven't read it since it came out but I know he said something close to that effect.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I actually dig the Impact Zone. I know wrestling promotions are 'supposed to' be nomadic and circus-like, but I'm a fan of the idea of shooting in a controlled, regular location, week-after-week. You ensure an audience that is up-to-date with the current product, and I'm sure it's a lot easier on their production department to not have to lug the sets around to a different city every week. I can only imagine what WWE spends on transport.

It might be time for a second, bigger soundstage for PPV's. Something you can made look different. Or a foothold in another part of the country. Add 'Impact Zone Los Angeles' and alternate between the two. If rumours are true (and it's not something I pay massive attention to) money is an issue right now, but that's what I'd consider.

Yeah, They probably can't afford to move around. Apparently the EC costs $250,000 to transport everytime WWE uses it for example.

[LoganRodzen]

I actually dig the Impact Zone. I know wrestling promotions are 'supposed to' be nomadic and circus-like, but I'm a fan of the idea of shooting in a controlled, regular location, week-after-week. You ensure an audience that is up-to-date with the current product, and I'm sure it's a lot easier on their production department to not have to lug the sets around to a different city every week. I can only imagine what WWE spends on transport.

It might be time for a second, bigger soundstage for PPV's. Something you can made look different. Or a foothold in another part of the country. Add 'Impact Zone Los Angeles' and alternate between the two. If rumours are true (and it's not something I pay massive attention to) money is an issue right now, but that's what I'd consider.

I'd imagine costs are huge for transport, but TNA wouldn't have to do half as much travelling as WWE to make it work. Your spot on with the second thing. They need something different. Maybe it isn't the Impact Zone I dislike (though I do dislike it), but the fact that its the same ol' thing every time. I'll tell you right now I hate WWE's universal ramp and stage they use for RAW, SD, and NXT. I thought the big Smackdown fist was the coolest thing ever. :o

I just like having options and seeing fresh stuff. Even if it's as little as the setup.

[Slagaholic]

The idea of Impact Zone LA is a great one. Didn't they run a few shows in Las Vegas a few years back? Imagine an Impact Las Vegas road trip!

I agree that the Impact Zone is getting a little monotonous, hell even ECW had TV tapings in different places every once in a while.

I think a good idea would be for TNA to go on mini tours. Something like going to one particular area of the country, run 4 live Impacts that lead to a PPV. Then go back to Orlando for a month or two using that time to advertise another TNA Tour. If it is a success you can go back and forth until you build enough of a following that TNA can go on the road every week, or at least more often than never like it is now.

[Hyde Hill]

In my opinion... they need to get out of the Impact Zone or they'll never grow at any pace at all. Real life doesn't work like TEW. You can't run your TV show in one area over and over hoping it'll raise your popularity in the other areas. The only way that 1.0 rating will go up is if they take Impact on the road and give back to the fans around the country instead of ONLY the Floridians (tourists too?). Just imagine how many more tickets would be sold at the little arenas TNA are doing for house shows if they labeled the shows as TV tapings or even live TV? A couple hundred more tickets sold I'd imagine.

Its pretty much the size of the Hammerstein Ballroom. I'd love to ask Bischoff (who ripped on ECW for running small buildings), "how do you like the cool-aid drinking, bingo hall idiots in Florida? Are they better then the ones in Philly or NYC?" Not even going to get started on that crowd. Though they haven't been as (keyword) horrible lately.

Ehm wasn't it Bisch that moved WCW to Disney? I do not think he hates small arenas but if he hates them at all more small arenas that do not allow for good production value and have a very low rotation of audience.

Anyway I do not think he hates on them at all, he just said ECW was too small for him to pay attention too when a lot of people where claiming he stole what they where doing. He stole more from Japan then anything else imo.

Anyway if you want to ask him, his facebook is open again and every monday before a ppv you can call mondaynightmayhem toll free, for US citizens, and ask him.

[Hyde Hill]

The idea of Impact Zone LA is a great one. Didn't they run a few shows in Las Vegas a few years back? Imagine an Impact Las Vegas road trip!

I agree that the Impact Zone is getting a little monotonous, hell even ECW had TV tapings in different places every once in a while.

I think a good idea would be for TNA to go on mini tours. Something like going to one particular area of the country, run 4 live Impacts that lead to a PPV. Then go back to Orlando for a month or two using that time to advertise another TNA Tour. If it is a success you can go back and forth until you build enough of a following that TNA can go on the road every week, or at least more often than never like it is now.

Probably too big a financial risk to do that last part at this time. And yeah they had a Las Vegas Hard Rock cafe, yes that was Bisch's intended spot oddly enough, show there in 2008 when the Impact zone was getting revamped for HD and got the bigger tron and singular stage entrance.

[LoganRodzen]

Ehm wasn't it Bisch that moved WCW to Disney? I do not think he hates small arenas but if he hates them at all more small arenas that do not allow for good production value and have a very low rotation of audience.

I know that, but the amount of people you can pack in the Impact Zone is practically the same number as the Hammerstein Ballroom from what I've read. I just never understood Bischoff's reasoning of the bingo hall thing when the Impact Zone (WCW at MGM I think?) is basically a bingo hall, but in state-of-the-art condition.

[Stennick]

I think thats the difference it isn't the size but more or less how production ready is it? An actual television studio affords you limitless opportunities compared to a bingo hall and I think that was the overall point but who knows.

[LoganRodzen]

I think thats the difference it isn't the size but more or less how production ready is it? An actual television studio affords you limitless opportunities compared to a bingo hall and I think that was the overall point but who knows.

Very true. I overlooked the fact that small arenas around the US may not be capable of handling what TNA wants / needs to do. I've never been to the Impact Zone, but I'd imagine it's a really nice place. Obviously there are offices connected to the studio that offers them a lot of other options. Its like living in one home for years and years... then suddenly you have to go live out of different hotels every day. Its an insanely big challenge for TNA to move out, but I think they need to do something.

[Stennick]

I agree with you and I think the pay per views being out of the IZ is a start and maybe some "specials" like someone mentioned in Las Vegas every once in a while.

[cappyboy]

I agree with you and I think the pay per views being out of the IZ is a start and maybe some "specials" like someone mentioned in Las Vegas every once in a while.

The PPV's getting out of the Impact Zone I would definitely agree with. I agree with Self about the benefits of the Impact Zone and how it can be part of the appeal. But it's the IMPACT Zone. Those benefits and charm that Self was speaking too would be greater if it were reserved for Impact tapings.

And while I like the idea of the specials, I don't think Las Vegas is the way to go. If money's really an issue right now, I'd say stay on the familiar side of the country and go to Atlantic City instead. You'd get that same gambling atmosphere at fewer miles and thus lesser travel expense.

Oh and something else that occurs to me. Back in the TNN period, ECW did a big PPV here in VA Beach at the Verizon Wireless Ampitheater. And I'm pretty sure WCW did as well. I know WCW did Road Wild from the Sturgis bike rally and I seem to remember Bash At The Beach have started out with a literal beachfront setting. Maybe TNA could do something like that for one of their PPV's. An outdoor setting would be something different and it could be an attention grabber. The challenge would of course be the weather and what to do if its snarled on your planned event day. If you put it in a resort city like this one or in Myrtle Beach or someplace similiar on Memorial Day weekend, it could have quite a bit of marketing punch and could formalize the company's push into summer. TNA could really do with an event that is uniquely theirs.

I know Bound for Glory is supposed to be their Wrestlemania and thus is probably the closest to that. But if they have an event that's supposed to have that dimension already, they'd haven't done well enough taking advantage of it since I've gotten the opportunity to watch them regularly.

[Slagaholic]

Outdoor PPVs are the #1 thing I miss in wrestling.

[Jaysin]

A hardcore knockouts match and Roxxi isn't around to show people how its done? :(

[Hyde Hill]

A hardcore knockouts match and Roxxi isn't around to show people how its done? :(

Or Moose/ Micky Knuckles.

[i effin rule]

Taz's Bryan Danielson reference was awesome.

[Jaysin]

Or Moose/ Micky Knuckles.

Did Roxxi and Moose get a hardcore match before Moose got hurt? That would be awesome.

Taz's Bryan Danielson reference was awesome.

What was it? I missed it :(

[i effin rule]

What was it? I missed it :(

While Sarita was choking Taylor with the purse Taz said "That kind of thing can get you fired in other companies".

[Jaysin]

While Sarita was choking Taylor with the purse Taz said "That kind of thing can get you fired in other companies".

Holy crap that's fantastic!

[Jaysin]

Am I the only person that absolutely loves Kevin Nash? I know he has backstage heat still from the end of WCW. But damn, I love Nash.

[Slagaholic]

Nash has really changed since his WCW days.

Kevin Nash: "Some people say I'm the best worker in this business"

WHO THE **** SAYS THAT KEVIN? YOUR MAGIC MIRROR?

[The Final Countdown]

Am I the only person that absolutely loves Kevin Nash? I know he has backstage heat still from the end of WCW. But damn, I love Nash.
I cared about him 13 years ago. Today? No thank you. He's a waste of both TV time and money.

[Slagaholic]

Right now TNA has had one old person feud per PPV. I don't mind that.

[Jaysin]

Magggnnuuusss!

If the rest of the Best of 5 are half as good as that ladder match or the match from Victory Road then we're in for a hell of a feud. I just hope there's not a ref spot in every one of them.

[Stennick]

Nash has a spot in this business as long as he wants. Maybe not wrestling but he's very funny, he's quick witted, I'm telling you the guy is custom made for color commentary. You can't really make him a manager since managers aren't supposed to be able to power bomb their clients to hell.

[Jaysin]

Velvet has improved so much on the mic.

[Hyde Hill]

Did Roxxi and Moose get a hardcore match before Moose got hurt? That would be awesome.


Yeah a couple even, they called them bimbo brawls if I remember correctly. One with ODB and one with Roxxi.

Dates:

June 5, 2008 - TNA iMPACT: ODB defeated Velvet Sky w/Angelina Love in a TNA Knockouts Street Fight..
~~~Roxxi Laveaux & Gail Kim attacked Velvet Sky & Angelina Love until MOOSE debuted to align with the Beautiful People!
June 8, 2008 - TNA Slammiversary: Gail Kim & ODB & Roxxi Laveaux defeated Angelina Love & Velvet Sky & Moose..
June 26, 2008 - TNA iMPACT: Moose (aka Mickie Knuckles) defeated ODB in a TNA Knockout's Bimbo Brawl!
July 3, 2008 - TNA iMPACT: Moose (Mickie Knuckles) defeated Roxxi Laveaux (bloodied) in a TNA Knockout's Bimbo Brawl!

[Slagaholic]

Oh christ don't let the "WHAT" phrase infect TNA too.

[TracyBrooksFan]

have to say good segment with the Beautiful People and Angelina

[The Final Countdown]

Nash has a spot in this business as long as he wants. Maybe not wrestling but he's very funny, he's quick witted, I'm telling you the guy is custom made for color commentary. You can't really make him a manager since managers aren't supposed to be able to power bomb their clients to hell.
I'd much rather him do color than...whatever it is he's doing currently. As you said, he can be very funny.

[Jaysin]

have to say good segment with the Beautiful People and Angelina

I'm really liking this story line even if the biker chick is a little silly, but Madison and Angelina can both go in the ring and the mic work was really well done.

[The Final Countdown]

I'm confused. I didn't see the PPV, but didn't the chick on the motorcycle (Tara, I'm assuming) cost Madison the title? So why are they now working together? Did I miss something?

[Jaysin]

I'm confused. I didn't see the PPV, but didn't the chick on the motorcycle (Tara, I'm assuming) cost Madison the title? So why are they now working together? Did I miss something?

The biker chick interfered on behalf of Madison. Andrew Thomas assumed it was Velvet or Lacey in disguise and gave the belt to Angelina. Madison orchestrated it, but her plan failed. That's why they're working together.

[Hyde Hill]

I'm confused. I didn't see the PPV, but didn't the chick on the motorcycle (Tara, I'm assuming) cost Madison the title? So why are they now working together? Did I miss something?

Because it was a good plan gone wrong. The stip was if Velvet or Lacey interfered Madison would lose the title. The plan was to avoid this by having biker girl interfere. The ref wrongly or rightly assumed it was one of the above and she lost the title. Just because a plan went wrong does not mean you are no longer (new) allies.

[TracyBrooksFan]

I'm confused. I didn't see the PPV, but didn't the chick on the motorcycle (Tara, I'm assuming) cost Madison the title? So why are they now working together? Did I miss something?

The biker chick was to get Madison DQ but the referee thought it was Velvet or Lacey at the PPV which is why she lost the belt on the DQ.

Biker chick reminds me of the movie the Wraith.

[The Final Countdown]

Ah, OK. Without seeing the PPV, I just sort of assumed that the biker chick intentionally cost her the title. It makes more sense now.

[Jaysin]

Ah, OK. Without seeing the PPV, I just sort of assumed that the biker chick intentionally cost her the title. It makes more sense now.

Totally understandable. They didn't really will describe it all that well on Impact.

[Slagaholic]

That end segment was 10,000 times better than the Nexus invasion.

[Jaysin]

That end segment was 10,000 times better than the Nexus invasion.


Dixie: STOP IT! I INVITED THEM!

God that was awesome.

[TracyBrooksFan]

That end segment was 10,000 times better than the Nexus invasion.

i agree it was better

[LoganRodzen]

What happened at the end of Impact? I was watching off and on, then I turned it off. I find it hard to believe anything involving Dixie was "awesome". :o

[GDE71]

What happened at the end of Impact? I was watching off and on, then I turned it off. I find it hard to believe anything involving Dixie was "awesome". :o

I actually think Dixie "made" the ending.