The Official TNA Discussion Thread

[justtxyank]

Shane Douglas wants to wrestle Flair at Hard Justice or he won't show up. LOL

Big fan of the franchise and even though they did this feud in WCW, I would like to see Shane go over Flair in the final ECW sendoff show.

[cappyboy]

Shane Douglas wants to wrestle Flair at Hard Justice or he won't show up. LOL

Big fan of the franchise and even though they did this feud in WCW, I would like to see Shane go over Flair in the final ECW sendoff show.

Man, to think where Douglas could be if he weren't so obstinate about stuff. Love the work he does in the ring and on the mic. Going on pure talent, he ought to be one of the legends by now. Talk about being one's own worst enemy. That's Shane Douglas.

[justtxyank]

Man, to think where Douglas could be if he weren't so obstinate about stuff. Love the work he does in the ring and on the mic. Going on pure talent, he ought to be one of the legends by now. Talk about being one's own worst enemy. That's Shane Douglas.

Shane Douglas is a lot like HHH to me, which will probably upset ECW fans who like to think that their roster was full of guys better than anything the WWF or WCW could offer. Talented in the ring, but not overly so. Douglas was much better on the mic in my opinion, but they both just had that ability to add credibility to a match/feud/title. Especially as heels, they were both just so easy to hate.

Douglas had the misfortune of running wrong with the kliq in the WWF and having Ric Flair dislike him in WCW. I always thought that when he finally went to WCW again they should have turned him into a main eventer and given him a run with the title.

[LoganRodzen]

Shane Douglas is a lot like HHH to me, which will probably upset ECW fans who like to think that their roster was full of guys better than anything the WWF or WCW could offer. Talented in the ring, but not overly so. Douglas was much better on the mic in my opinion, but they both just had that ability to add credibility to a match/feud/title. Especially as heels, they were both just so easy to hate.

Douglas had the misfortune of running wrong with the kliq in the WWF and having Ric Flair dislike him in WCW. I always thought that when he finally went to WCW again they should have turned him into a main eventer and given him a run with the title.

I've ALWAYS made this connection. Douglas was HHH amped up a few notches. Douglas could do these insane promos because of how pissed off he legitimately was at people in the WWF and WCW who he felt held him back. I've seen a few shoot interviews (Forever Hardcore documentary being the latest) of Douglas and he thinks Flair has hated him since he threw down the NWA belt in '94. Even Terry Funk had animosity towards Douglas because of that (many others too), but Funk was able to get over that and do business with him. I've never read up on other Flair/Douglas stories though. So I'm a bit in the dark when it comes to that.

HHH always had lackeys or a woman (Chyna/Stephanie) with him. Douglas was the same (Francine). They were both 'The Game' and 'The Franchise' of their companies. The characters were (at the core) the same thing, but both of them pulled it off differently for their environments. These are the type of heels I really like to get behind. Because even though you hate their freakin' guts because of what they say and do... you still want to see them wrestle.

ECW and WWF did really good jobs back then getting you to hate these guys. I remember hating Douglas so much that I wanted to see Taz choke him out and win the ECW title at Guilty As Charged '99. First ECW PPV I ever saw as a 10-year old kid. Can't say I enjoyed garbage like New Jack, but the stories between the top guys was good stuff.

[MasterJ]

It looked lik Joe and Hardy were going to feud but then Joe has to go off and act like a jack ass and get himself suspended if that is whats holding him back and he does this more often its his own fault. I like Joe but he is turning into a problem backstage why push him and by reports the same goes for Wolfe and Morgan.

[justtxyank]

I've ALWAYS made this connection. Douglas was HHH amped up a few notches. Douglas could do these insane promos because of how pissed off he legitimately was at people in the WWF and WCW who he felt held him back. I've seen a few shoot interviews (Forever Hardcore documentary being the latest) of Douglas and he thinks Flair has hated him since he threw down the NWA belt in '94. Even Terry Funk had animosity towards Douglas because of that (many others too), but Funk was able to get over that and do business with him. I've never read up on other Flair/Douglas stories though. So I'm a bit in the dark when it comes to that.

Douglas believed (and probably accurately so) that Flair held him down when he was in WCW. Flair apparently refused to work a program with him and tried to nix his teaming with Ricky Steamboat. Douglas hated Flair and spent the next decade trashing Dick Flair routinely while in ECW. Douglas vs Flair was a match a lot of ECW fans wanted to see as Douglas had such a genuine hatred for him in his promos, and he was constantly calling him out. They eventually got to do a program in WCW.

[Jaysin]

I forgot how dreadful Lacey was in the ring. I remember her being bad...but damn.

Glad Taylor and Hamada got the belts though.

[The Final Countdown]

Are they seriously doing a Wolfpack rehash?

[MasterJ]

I really like that their doing a wolfpac its good fun.

[20LEgend]

I liked Sting being back, but I'm slightly sceptical about it, but like everything, I give it a chance see where they go and then make up my mind.

Hogan talking to Nash about Politics!?

[Jaysin]

I seriously jumped off my bed when Sting came out with red and black face paint. Not gonna lie, mega excited.

[Stennick]

Wolfpac Sting iritates me maybe more than any other pro wrestling character EVER. Why would Sting join the the nWo Wolfpac? Faces or not didn't most of the guys on that version of the nWo spend over a year trying to destroy him and the year before that didn't they attempt to frame him resulting in him stalking in the rafters for year? Seriously he spent two years being the only guy not named DDP to fight the nWo and not join and then he just up and joins.

I get what they were trying to do with the Wolfpac, they were behind, the ratings were slipping and the nWo had lost its cool factor so they figured since the nWo isn't cool anymore, maybe a spin off OF the nWo would be. Sadly I never got it. All they succeeded in doing was making Luger and Sting look like jackasses.

/rant

[20LEgend]

Does anyone else think in angles when Abyss he should learn to sell it abit better, I saw a few different people for that matter poorly sell a kick, I think there was one in the (awesome(again)) Beer Money MGMC match and a couple in the ECW alumni angles, I find this strange, is it just me or is there a reason that some angles seem a bit messy? I enjoy them, don't get me wrong, but they do seem a tad disorganised at time.

Also I hope Tommy doesn't where that weird attire like he has been on impact, and Jerry Lynn For the win! Sting was great and even if the old guys storyline doesn't go in the ring, some of the storyline's just from the angles will be cool.

[crownsy]

damnit TNA, let 1998 WCW go....

This is what annoys me about the company, they have SO MUCH talent, but rather than do something new and exciting, they'd rather give me the nWo wolfpac...

Great TNA, just what i wanted to see, a watered down reunion of a great stable 10-12 years past all the members prime.

No wonder AJ and the other guys are pissed at Dixie....ECW is one thing, as long as it's one PPV. this is quite another.

I feel like TNA just throws random nostalgia from the monday night wars out there and hopes that it will catch fire. News flash dixie: it won't.

Use some of the great talent you push one week then forget about for the next two to rehash these angles, and carve out your own storylines and angles.

Hell, for awhile after the MEM i thought they were on the right track, but now every new "OMG!!" moment is something that i really don't care about in 2010.

Hogan and Flair take on two TNA originals and make them watered down versions of themselves: pass.

The Nwo gets back together as "the band": pass.

ECW revival: pass, to late for this TNA

NWO wolfpac!: see above

I'm begging you TNA, use guys like lethal, wolfe, anderson, angle, AJ, joe, morgan, ect. and build new story lines around those guys. your doing this to an extent in the midcard, just make it your focus.

Stop with dreging up angles from 1999 and thinking they'll catch fire. just...stop. please.

I was all for bringing in Hogan and Easy E when they promised to bring something "new" to TNA. all we've seen is TNA trying to revive WCW/ECW circa 1998.

I mean, i wouldn't even MIND if they did the angles from that time as long as they would use the workers I actually give a flying poop about. by all means, rehash those angles just like every other company, but push your new blood in those roles. Don't throw Sting into the ring and expect me to care.

Hell, i didn't care about wolfpac sting back then, i sure don't care now that he's well past his prime.

[tristram]

Wolfpac Sting iritates me maybe more than any other pro wrestling character EVER. Why would Sting join the the nWo Wolfpac? Faces or not didn't most of the guys on that version of the nWo spend over a year trying to destroy him and the year before that didn't they attempt to frame him resulting in him stalking in the rafters for year? Seriously he spent two years being the only guy not named DDP to fight the nWo and not join and then he just up and joins.

I get what they were trying to do with the Wolfpac, they were behind, the ratings were slipping and the nWo had lost its cool factor so they figured since the nWo isn't cool anymore, maybe a spin off OF the nWo would be. Sadly I never got it. All they succeeded in doing was making Luger and Sting look like jackasses.

/rant

I agree entirely... the only problem with that was, for some reason, Nash and Sting joining up made WCW fan's pop big time. The Wolfpack lost all its sense and marbles when it swerved back to nWo Hollywood rather than be the internal politick it needed to destroy itself.

[Slagaholic]

I'm begging you TNA, use guys like lethal, wolfe, anderson, angle, AJ, joe, morgan, ect. and build new story lines around those guys. your doing this to an extent in the midcard, just make it your focus.

Everyone you listed that TNA should build new story lines around are all in a storyline right now and have been on TV much more in the past two months than Nash and Sting.

You're hyperbolizing like crazy bro!

[The Final Countdown]

Everyone you listed that TNA should build new story lines around are all in a storyline right now and have been on TV much more in the past two months than Nash and Sting.

You're hyperbolizing like crazy bro!
I agree--aside from Desmond, at least. That guy has amounted to a big pile of nothing since Hogan & Bischoff came in.

[Slagaholic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbZ1Zx_Moik

I love the promo. Very old school feel. Tag team cutting a promo. Interviewer holding the mic looking bored, pretty valet looking bored on the side. Banner hanging slightly off kilter in the background. I miss those days!

He's heading in the right direction! Watch the finish of the match and tell me TNA didn't just stub their toe on a brick made of gold!

[BHK1978]

I just want the Surfer Sting to come back. I know that sounds lame but I never really liked Wolf Pack or Crow Sting. I understand that will never happen but that was always my favorite version of Sting.

The Ric Flair match was just horrible, I felt a bit uncomfortable watching it. I did like Doug Williams getting involved but besides that I was not a fan of the match.

[Slagaholic]

You know what? I would love to see Surfer Sting return. If he ever has a 100% definite final match I want it to be Surfer Sting. Be honest guys, isn't that the Sting we all really love the most?

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/s/sting/43.jpg

[Stennick]

Wolfe had a great promo and then Magnus had a not so great promo. But damn Wolfe can talk, he pretty much murdered Flair in that promo. He turned what I thought was a huge blow to his character by not being selected into a great promo and made him look actually stronger by doing the promo. Too bad 12 people saw it on Xplosion.

[The Final Countdown]

Wolfe had a great promo and then Magnus had a not so great promo. But damn Wolfe can talk, he pretty much murdered Flair in that promo. He turned what I thought was a huge blow to his character by not being selected into a great promo and made him look actually stronger by doing the promo. Too bad 12 people saw it on Xplosion.
Yeah, seriously. That was awesome, but I'd have never seen it if the video hadn't been posted in this thread.

[brashleyholland]

What baffles me about the whole Hogan-Bicsh-Sting-Nash thing from Impact is the way they set it up.

Hogan gives Nash a talking to about how it's their time to step aside and let the new generation have the limelight, and that their time has passed...

...before the whole thing devolves into Nash and Sting fighting Hogan and Eric, presumably setting up a programme between them like it's 1998 all over again.

What made it worse/funny was that Hogan's comments seemed to get a genuine round of applause from the fans.

[Stennick]

What baffles me is I know I'm a Wolfe fanboy but tell me he's not one of the top five promos in the company. I mean maybe I'm overexaggerating but his promos sound so natural like he's an English (richard) naturally. I don't know much about Magnus aside from the fact he's not much of a promo guy. I hope this duo leads to Wolfe back on my television with a steady push every week.

[Slagaholic]

You're underrating Magnus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Et9A5wvSI

He's not pants droppingly amazing but for pro wrestling he's just fine.

[cappyboy]

He's not pants droppingly amazing but for pro wrestling he's just fine.

Actually, dude, I'll leave that to the women folk around here to decide. Unless of course you wear your pants up around your jaw. In which case maybe it is a decent metaphor. :D

[angeldelayette]

I have to admit that the camera angles on Madison last night were absolutely great. :D

[BHK1978]

What baffles me is I know I'm a Wolfe fanboy but tell me he's not one of the top five promos in the company. I mean maybe I'm overexaggerating but his promos sound so natural like he's an English (richard) naturally. I don't know much about Magnus aside from the fact he's not much of a promo guy. I hope this duo leads to Wolfe back on my television with a steady push every week.

I heard that management is not happy with him (Nigel I am talking about) for some reason. And therefore, his push has come to a halt.

Now before anybody says I don't know what is really going on (because people have said that to me in the past on here), that is true I am just telling you what I read.

[Hartattack]

I heard the same thing. Apparently people have complained he is difficult to work with. As the above poster stated this is only what i have read.

[Stennick]

I heard that management is not happy with him (Nigel I am talking about) for some reason. And therefore, his push has come to a halt.

Now before anybody says I don't know what is really going on (because people have said that to me in the past on here), that is true I am just telling you what I read.

You don't know whats really going on BHK!!!!!!!! :D

I heard that too. If anything maybe this will be a giant audition for the WWE for Desmond. He seems like he'd be PERFECT for that Regal mentor gimmick they have tried and failed with a few different times.

[Self]

Just watched Imapct and was not a fan. I liked Beer Money vs MCMG (but not as much as their previous encounters, or previous Ultimate X matches) I liked how Roode & Sabin got a chance to talk. I liked Orlando vs Pope. I like Tazz. That's pretty much it.

I thought the opening segment was a misfire. There were elements of potential. Dreamer's exasperation. Raven's "Daddy" lines. For the most part the crowd killed it. They didn't seem emotionally invested in the situation (can't blame them) they just popped for the cool lines. The brawling after the fact was a sorry state of affairs.

The Women's tag was quite possibly the worst match I've seen in a long, long time (and I watched Tiffany vs Layla earlier). Horrendous. Hamada and Lacey was just awful. Everything looked botched.

I have some interest in the PPV. I was a massive fan of the Lynn/RVD matches in the day. I know the modern version won't be quite so good, but it's enough to pique my interest.

Skipped the Hogan/Bischoff stuff. words cannot express how little I care about them right now. Skipped the main event too. If the opening brawl was anything to go by, I didn't miss anything good.

Was Jeff Hardy on this show. I didn't fast-forward that much, but maybe I missed him.

[The Final Countdown]

The Women's tag was quite possibly the worst match I've seen in a long, long time (and I watched Tiffany vs Layla earlier). Horrendous. Hamada and Lacey was just awful. Everything looked botched.
Yeah, it was atrocious. And I think we know who to blame for that...

...that no-talent hack Hamada. :p

Seriously though, Lacey is beyond awful. She works fine as a valet, but there's no reason or excuse for her to be wrestling. She makes Velvet Sky look like Ricky Steamboat.

[Self]

Yeah, it was atrocious. And I think we know who to blame for that...

...that no-talent hack Hamada. :p

Seriously though, Lacey is beyond awful. She works fine as a valet, but there's no reason or excuse for her to be wrestling. She makes Velvet Sky look like Ricky Steamboat.

I actually 'blame' Hamada a bit too. How's her English? It's not exactly her fault if she can't speak the language, but that's one hell of an obstacle for a rookie worker like Lacey to overcome. It wasn't just the lame offense and selling that bothered me, it was the fact that neither of them seemed to know what they were doing.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Yeah, it was atrocious. And I think we know who to blame for that...

...that no-talent hack Hamada. :p

Seriously though, Lacey is beyond awful. She works fine as a valet, but there's no reason or excuse for her to be wrestling. She makes Velvet Sky look like Ricky Steamboat.

Quoted for truth... a disgrace to the Von Erich name...

[Slagaholic]

Jesus dude, I wouldn't go that far. She's trying her best, she's not booking herself into matches.

Michael, Chris, and Kerry Von Erich are far greater disgraces.

[Stennick]

Yeah I agree with Slag......I just said that didn't I? :D Anyway Slag's is exactly right she's not even close to the disgrace some of the others are and as far as in ring goes she's not booking herself in these matches.

[Slagaholic]

Lacey needs to find herself a man. She's the perfect type for a romance angle.

Lacey and Lethal anyone? Lethal could use a valet and Lacey needs to be a face to get by solely on being pretty.

[The Final Countdown]

and as far as in ring goes she's not booking herself in these matches.
Oh, for sure. I put the blame on TNA for putting her in matches when it is obvious she has no business wrestling.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Jesus dude, I wouldn't go that far. She's trying her best, she's not booking herself into matches.

Michael, Chris, and Kerry Von Erich are far greater disgraces.

Yeah I agree with Slag......I just said that didn't I? :D Anyway Slag's is exactly right she's not even close to the disgrace some of the others are and as far as in ring goes she's not booking herself in these matches.



I was totally exaggerating guys... but she does suck...

[Slagaholic]

Impact scored a 1.21

Looks like this ECW angle has been a success.

[sheepy]

Impact scored a 1.21

Looks like this ECW angle has been a success.

Doubt it, the Monday night wars showed that it takes months of solid / bad booking before you can start to move the ratings. I think this is more likely to do with them putting on solid feuds and solid impacts over the last few months than one angle.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Impact scored a 1.21

Looks like this ECW angle has been a success.

Thats how it will be read anyway.

[Slagaholic]

Doubt it, the Monday night wars showed that it takes months of solid / bad booking before you can start to move the ratings. I think this is more likely to do with them putting on solid feuds and solid impacts over the last few months than one angle.

Thank you for taking me so literally. Of course it's been because they've put on good shows consistently but the ECW angle has definitely helped the ratings.

[Bigpapa42]

PWInsider is apparently reporting that the main event of Hard Justice is now in jeopardy as... SWIPE for SPOILERS...

Jerry Lynn had to pull out due to injury

Sucks if true.

[20LEgend]

Wow, thats pretty bad.

[Slagaholic]

Damn. I thought his back problems were behind him.

[Hyde Hill]

I actually 'blame' Hamada a bit too. How's her English? It's not exactly her fault if she can't speak the language, but that's one hell of an obstacle for a rookie worker like Lacey to overcome. It wasn't just the lame offense and selling that bothered me, it was the fact that neither of them seemed to know what they were doing.

I remember Remi writing that Hamada has fine English so that is not the problem. And if anyone knows female wrestlers around here it is Remi.

[TracyBrooksFan]

I remember Remi writing that Hamada has fine English so that is not the problem. And if anyone knows female wrestlers around here it is Remi.

i met Hamada and Homicide had to translate for her

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm Mixed tag feud anyone? And ok my bad, or they where pulling your leg lolz.

[angeldelayette]

Aside from Tommy Dreamer versus Raven, have any specific matches been given out for Hardcore Justice?

[crownsy]

Aside from Tommy Dreamer versus Raven, have any specific matches been given out for Hardcore Justice?

Just the main event of RVD vs. Lynn, which is now apparently off :(

[sebsplex]

While Lacey is without a doubt woeful in the ring, I can't say that I've been particularly impressed with Hamada since she signed with TNA, so it's not surprising she couldn't help carry Lacey to something more watchable. It's all well and good her and Kong putting on awesome bouts elsewhere, but most of the time she's set foot in TNA's ring, she's seemed awkward. If this were TEW, I suspect the old 'Hamada and her opponent don't click' notes would be popping up. Whether langauge is an issue or her style just hasn't meshed with the opponent's I've seen her face... I don't know, for whatever reason either Hamada herself or TNA haven't really done her justice.

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm I would disagree there as her matches against Daffney and her New Years Eve matches and tag matches where good imho. Dragging a good match out of the BP, all four, is hard for any performer even with Madison who is the least bad imho.

[sebsplex]

Hmm I would disagree there as her matches against Daffney and her New Years Eve matches and tag matches where good imho. Dragging a good match out of the BP, all four, is hard for any performer even with Madison who is the least bad imho.

Sadly I missed the New Year's Eve Knockout special, athough I believe I recall her match with Daffney ended with a moonsault/table spot(?) and I agree on the BP front, Angelina vs. Sarita last week wasn't exactly fluid either. TNA seem to feature Hamada primarily as a tag team performer though, which makes me wonder if they have concerns about using solo or possibly, they don't really know what to do with her.

[Basmat01]

- Dave Meltzer is reporting that as of right now it looks like replacement for Jerry Lynn in the main event vs RVD will be either Kid Kash or 2 Cold Scorpio however nothing is final at this point.

Gerwick.net

Am I the only one that thinks if either one of these two facing RVD would make a pretty weak mainevent?

[Jaysin]

Am I the only one that thinks if either one of these two facing RVD would make a pretty weak mainevent?

I'm a huge Kid Kash fan, so I'd be pretty pumped about it. Not as excited as I was for Jerry Lynn though.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Am I the only one that thinks if either one of these two facing RVD would make a pretty weak mainevent?

Yeah, when I read that, I'm now desperately trying to find out the main event before I purchase. Seems to me that the logical replacement is Sabu...

[|Anderz|]

I have a feeling this is gonna end up being a poor version of the original One Night Stand..

[Johnny Fenoli]

I have a feeling this is gonna end up being a poor version of the original One Night Stand..

me too... me..... to...... :(

[angeldelayette]

Yeah, when I read that, I'm now desperately trying to find out the main event before I purchase. Seems to me that the logical replacement is Sabu...

I thought the same thing. Sabu is the perfect and most logical replacement. Or maybe Rhino since they had that feud at the end of ECW and the fight at the original One Night Stand.

[Jaysin]

RVD chose Sabu as his opponent tonight.

Also, highlight the next line for a spoiler

New Jack is there!

[|Anderz|]

that spoiler really doesnt change my feeling that this is gonna suck..

really out of the list of names of the website (http://www.hardcorejustice.com/) I dont have much faith in many of them to not actually stick up the joint..

itll be nice for nostaglia.. but with TNA behind it.. I cant see it being a scratch on One Night Stand or Hardcore Homecoming..

[Slagaholic]

This has much more to do with WWECW and what a joke it became than ONS and HH.

It's going to be an awful show most likely, but most nostalgia shows with guys 40 and over are awful.

I doubt anyone is buying this expecting a show as good as November to Remember '97.

And in case you didn't know it's not really TNA behind it, they're funding it, but Tommy Dreamer is booking it.

[Slagaholic]

First match is
FBI (Guido, Mamaluke, and Smothers) vs Kid Kash, Simon Diamond, and Johnny Swinger.

Smothers looks horrible but very excited.

[Jaysin]

Kid Kash, Tony Mamaluke, and Guido look very good.

I miss Kash :(

[Slagaholic]

And now it's a dance off

[Jaysin]

Damn Kash flew far. That was sweet.

[jwt13]

Ecw Ecw Ecw

[Jaysin]

I strongly dislike Simon Diamond and Johnny Swinger, but I love Kid Kash so I'm a little bummed he lost. It was definitely a fun match though.

[Slagaholic]

This is basically an indy show on PPV.

[Jaysin]

This is basically an indy show on PPV.

That's exactly what the original ECW was though :p

[Slagaholic]

That's exactly what the original ECW was though :p

True...but the performers were 10-15 years younger :P

[jwt13]

That's exactly what the original ECW was though :p
It really was its been ok so far too much talking

[Slagaholic]

Too Cold was in great shape.

I can't get over Bill Alfonso talking over his dentures.

[Jaysin]

Too Cold was in great shape.

The finish was awesome, but he's still one of the goofiest looking mother truckers I've ever seen.

[Slagaholic]

Oh man why did they call him PJ. Should have called him Just Incredible

[Jaysin]

Oh man why did they call him PJ. Should have called him Just Incredible

At least he showed up. Every show he was scheduled to wrestle that I've been to he no showed.

[Slagaholic]

Francine is officially a MILF! She looks great.

[Jaysin]

Francine is officially a MILF! She looks great.

I was just thinking that!

[benjacko]

Is there a sumo match up next between Simon Diamond and Sandman? :p

[Slagaholic]

Believe it or not Sandman has lost weight since the last time I saw him.

[Jaysin]

Gore! Gore! Gooooooooorrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeee!

[benjacko]

That Eddie bit there was quite funny tbf :)

[Slagaholic]

Axl! Balls! Axl! Balls!

[Jaysin]

Cajones!

[Slagaholic]

Joel Gertner put on like 100 pounds my god.

[Jaysin]

Use The Force!!

[Slagaholic]

Oh My God!!!!!! The Gangstas!!!

I have to say this PPV may have been Tenay and Taz's best show together.

[Stennick]

Somebody should PM me the means in which their watching this since I seriously doubt the 10,000 people that buy these things are all on this board :)

[Johnny Fenoli]

I almost teared up when New Jack and D-Von hugged it out, after all their bad blood...

[Slagaholic]

BTW that was probably the last time New Jack will ever be in a wrestling ring. He retired for good last year. There's a reason why he didn't take any bumps or weapon shots.

[Johnny Fenoli]

BTW that was probably the last time New Jack will ever be in a wrestling ring. He retired for good last year. There's a reason why he didn't take any bumps or weapon shots.

makes me very thankful thinking about how these dudes literally gave their lives to entertain me, and everyone else...

IT'S STILL REAL TO ME DAMN IT!!!

[Jaysin]

If they sell the shirt Tommy's wearing, I'll buy it in a heart beat. I'm probably the one person cheering for Raven though.

[Stennick]

Thanks everybody I got what I needed

[Johnny Fenoli]

Where did this crowd come from???? When was the last time the ImpactZone gave a crap?

[Stennick]

drop toe hold onto a chair? Damn I love that move

[jwt13]

Where did this crowd come from???? When was the last time the ImpactZone gave a crap?

PHILLI!!!!

[Johnny Fenoli]

PHILLI!!!!

Kinda feels like they bused them down........

[Stennick]

I wouldn't quite say that, the chants aren't near creative and the crowd isn't near blood thirsty. Its a good imitation though.

[jwt13]

these two guys might not be the most talented but this is a hell of a match

[Jaysin]

I'm so excited Raven won.

[Slagaholic]

That match was a lot better than I thought it would be.

[Slagaholic]

Wow Sabu looks pretty good on my crappy stream.

[Jaysin]

Seeing Sabu bald threw me off

[jwt13]

I want heyman to show up at the end

[Johnny Fenoli]

I want heyman to show up at the end

I dont want Heyman to show up, unless he's taking over TNA backstage..... dont tease me.

[Slagaholic]

I want heyman to show up at the end

So does everyone. Doesn't look like its going to happen.

[Slagaholic]

RVD vs Sabu was ALOT better than I thought it would be. I still can't get over how perfect that Tornado DDT was.

[Jaysin]

That was a fun show. I enjoyed it a lot.

[jwt13]

TBH I thought this PPV was going to be pretty bad and I stood by that after I saw the dane off:) but that was one hell of a going away PPV for ECW now let it R.I.P

[Slagaholic]

Yeah the show got better and better as it went on.

[Wrestling Century]

Wow! That PPV was excellent! It was well worth the money that I paid, as I don't think that there was even one bad match on there! But it sucks that Jerry Lynn and The Blue Meanie weren't in a match.

[LoganRodzen]

Heyman wouldn't have come back unless this PPV was guaranteed 100k buys. Its seriously not worth his time to come back for a PPV that was poorly built-up. This was legitimately TNA's attempt to draw Heyman into their company by putting on this ECW reunion show that Heyman probably didn't even want to see happen. He saw his companies name get dragged through the mud in WWE and now he got to see it in TNA as well. If anyone wants ECW to RIP its Heyman.

With that being said I only caught the ending of the show and read results. I thought it was cool that the ring actually looked like an ECW ring. The mat and ropes and whatnot. That was nostalgic enough for me. :o

[Wrestling Century]

Whoops, forgot to type up the rest of my post! :p Oh well. Anyways, Tommy Dreamer vs. Raven was the match of the night for me! I didn't think that Raven was going to get the win.

[The Celt]

Oh man why did they call him PJ. Should have called him Just Incredible

WWE stole...erm, copyrighted his name. Seems to have been the same deal with Tony Mamaluke and possibly even Beulah McGillicutty who they referred to as "Teresa".

[Jaysin]

WWE stole...erm, copyrighted his name. Seems to have been the same deal with Tony Mamaluke and possibly even Beulah McGillicutty who they referred to as "Teresa".

WWE didn't copy right Justin Credible, his ex did.

[Stennick]

I guess he allowed them to copywright it in exchange for work way back in the InVasion days?

[LoganRodzen]

I'm curious how the TNA guys enjoyed Dreamer at the end of the show... "TNA guys, we raised the bar, so now its up to you to follow." I'd be more than pissed off after that comment if I was AJ Styles, Beer Money, etc. I can't remember what he said exactly, but it was pretty much that.

[Stennick]

I wouldn't say they raised anything but their bank accounts. They put on a decent show but come on its not like this was better than Impact before this ECW stuff started. I hope this ECW stuff is out of the way now. The show was ok but it wasn't better than ONS. Awesome vs. Tanaka owned this entire show IMO. In fact this show wasn't better than the second ONS. I've not seen a match in FOREVER that had the heat that Cena/RVD had. This was good but that first ONS was the perfect ending for ECW.

I hope TNA goes on being TNA now and doesn't decide to do The Great United States Bash, Or Squarecade or something.

[LoganRodzen]

I wouldn't say they raised anything but their bank accounts. They put on a decent show but come on its not like this was better than Impact before this ECW stuff started. I hope this ECW stuff is out of the way now. The show was ok but it wasn't better than ONS. Awesome vs. Tanaka owned this entire show IMO. In fact this show wasn't better than the second ONS. I've not seen a match in FOREVER that had the heat that Cena/RVD had. This was good but that first ONS was the perfect ending for ECW.

I hope TNA goes on being TNA now and doesn't decide to do The Great United States Bash, Or Squarecade or something.

Couldn't agree more. Can't see how any of the ECW wrestlers felt that ONS in '05 wasn't the perfect send-off. Sure, WWE brought it back as the brand and tarnished the reputation, but it was a company that went bankrupt and was never known for having a good reputation anyway. Even though the Hammerstein can only fit like 1,500 or whatever, the RVD/Cena crowd was as loud as a 15,000 arena in my opinion. I've never seen anything like that before or after. Cena getting his shirt tossed back into the ring like six times and the epic chants that WWE didn't try beeping out at all. The commentary from Foley and Styles was top-notch as well. I'll never forget Styles' commentary during that Awesome / Tanaka match. Priceless. :)

I'm assuming Dreamer's comment came off sounding worse than he wanted to. Perhaps he was just saying that they put on a decent show as "has-beens" and that there's no reason those young guys can't do epic stuff. I'm pretty sure everyone already knows what TNA's roster is capable off... but they can't exactly showcase that when their company gives away a PPV for a month.

[Jaysin]

Couldn't agree more. Can't see how any of the ECW wrestlers felt that ONS in '05 wasn't the perfect send-off. Sure, WWE brought it back as the brand and tarnished the reputation, but it was a company that went bankrupt and was never known for having a good reputation anyway. Even though the Hammerstein can only fit like 1,500 or whatever, the RVD/Cena crowd was as loud as a 15,000 arena in my opinion. I've never seen anything like that before or after. Cena getting his shirt tossed back into the ring like six times and the epic chants that WWE didn't try beeping out at all. The commentary from Foley and Styles was top-notch as well. I'll never forget Styles' commentary during that Awesome / Tanaka match. Priceless. :)

I'm assuming Dreamer's comment came off sounding worse than he wanted to. Perhaps he was just saying that they put on a decent show as "has-beens" and that there's no reason those young guys can't do epic stuff. I'm pretty sure everyone already knows what TNA's roster is capable off... but they can't exactly showcase that when their company gives away a PPV for a month.

While I still think Joey is one of the best announcers ever, his comments about Mike Awesome pissed me off. I'm not even talking about now, I was pissed watching the show. He said he wished Mike Awesome would kill himself. That, is not cool.

[LoganRodzen]

While I still think Joey is one of the best announcers ever, his comments about Mike Awesome pissed me off. I'm not even talking about now, I was pissed watching the show. He said he wished Mike Awesome would kill himself. That, is not cool.

Those comments weren't exactly 'awesome', but I loved how real Styles was on commentary that night and how great it was to see his emotion come through (even though it may have been morbid).

[TracyBrooksFan]

just got back from the PPV it was very good live.

[Stennick]

Its crazy that I've seen more praise for this pay per view than I've seen for all of TNA. I think it goes to show you how powerful nostalgia is for ECW. They had a very passionate fanbase and anytime they do something with this name that passion comes out one way or another.

Although in all due honesty the pay per view was ok. It was about as good as most ECW pay per views were. A few good matches and the rest having random brawling by guys that the top guys didn't want to touch then or now.

I fear this praise that everyone is giving this show is going to make TNA think "hey this whole ECW thing is a good idea" just like Vince did. He did the book, he did the DVD, then brought it back for a pay per view, brought it back again and then decided to make the whole brand ECW. We saw how quickly that got out of hand.

Without Paul this ECW thing needs to stop here and if Paul were here I'm sure he wouldn't be interested in continuing ECW.

[ThriceP86]

I wholeheartedly agree with Stennick that this should just be a reunion show. I might eventually watch this pay per view after reading and hearing all the good things.

Let's just hope they don't try to revive it... again.

[MasterJ]

Something tells me that Vince is going to shoot back by doing another ECW ppv and try to have the last moment with ECW but I could be wrong. Anyone thing that any legal actions will be taken?

[Jaysin]

I think when they air the commercials for the dvd, they should just air clips of the crowd chanting "**** you Vince" through the whole commercial. That was a fun chant.

[TracyBrooksFan]

what made the chant better was Simon Diamond in the ring encouraging us the crowd to get louder with the chant.

[Stennick]

I was starting to believe that TNA was on the right track. They had gotten their feet grounded and they were moving in a solid direction. Then came the t.v ratings spike (well compared to their other ratings its a spike) and then every board I go to people are actually saying they enjoyed this show. I understand the thought of "enjoying it for what it is" but now people on other boards are saying "well Sabu can still go, Snow, Dreamer, Raven" their starting to name off guys that should stick around. TNA was overcrowded before and its still overcrowded. I hope TNA doesn't look at the ratings and the 30 year old males that are laying praise to their favorite rebel promotion and say "lets pull the trigger guys".

I think a lot of the praise comes from just how bitter ECW fans are with what Vince did to their little promotion that could. After seeing it die a slow, painful death and then continue on in zombie form for three years must have been very hard for them to deal with. So seeing the "real" ECW out there for the first time in five years, no matter that most of these guys were done five years ago. I think its like when TNA does something mildly good people over react because its so unexpected.

I think thats where the praise comes from and honestly I think the T.V ratings spike has nothing to do with ECW and has everything to do with they were telling consistent, logical, straight forward pro wrestling stories on a weekly basis with interesting characters. When you put on a consistant show for months at a time the ratings increase. Vince and company where putting on a better show than WCW for about five months maybe a bit longer (arguably) before they EVER came close to beating WCW in the ratings. I'm not saying their close to beating the WWE in the ratings but it shows that in pro wrestling or television in general you can't just put on four good shows and expect a massive spike in ratings. It takes months and months of very good shows to win over fans.

I fear that after about two or three months of hard work and consistent story telling they blew their load with this ECW stuff and those 1.2 that tuned in might not tune in next week. If the rating drops by a lot next week I think its safe to say that people were not interested in this ECW stuff. They drew a huge audience and either that audience was there to see ECW or they were there to see TNA after hearing the shows they had been putting on. They saw a national television program dedicate a months worth of television to a long forgotten wrestling promotion thats been dead and buried more times than Jason Voorhees and they pulled a Miz "Really........REALLY". There won't be able to be any logic behind "well they left because ECW left". You KNOW that they will have Dreamer or Raven or somebody on the show next week. Their not going to forget about this after that. Or even if they don't ECW fans will tune in with hopes of getting some sort of ECW action. So if its ECW fans powering the rating it should stay right around the same, if its people who were tuning into TNA to see what the praise was about then we might see a drop.

I should have learned by now to have zero faith in TNA's ability to keep focus on one thing for more than a month or two. Even without the ECW storyline the other big story is Jeff Jarrett, Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff, Sting and Kevin Nash.....so we've gone from 96 to 99?

Guys like Joe are sitting at home (maybe deserved maybe not), Wolfe is on a B show that most of the nation doesn't even have access to. I keep hearing about this young talent but the more I tune in the more I see 1995-1999 over and over again. I think it was extremely bush league of TNA who try so hard to be a national promotion and a "global" force to present us four weeks of ECW television. The WWE could air a blank screen for two hours in the RAW slot and draw a 3.0, TNA can't and I think I'd rather see that blank screen than Axl Rotten and the Gangsta's on my television.

[Hyde Hill]

Its crazy that I've seen more praise for this pay per view than I've seen for all of TNA. I think it goes to show you how powerful nostalgia is for ECW. They had a very passionate fanbase and anytime they do something with this name that passion comes out one way or another.

Although in all due honesty the pay per view was ok. It was about as good as most ECW pay per views were. A few good matches and the rest having random brawling by guys that the top guys didn't want to touch then or now.

I fear this praise that everyone is giving this show is going to make TNA think "hey this whole ECW thing is a good idea" just like Vince did. He did the book, he did the DVD, then brought it back for a pay per view, brought it back again and then decided to make the whole brand ECW. We saw how quickly that got out of hand.

Without Paul this ECW thing needs to stop here and if Paul were here I'm sure he wouldn't be interested in continuing ECW.

Well TNA has been praised lately plenty as well. At least in this thread, generally online is another thing though. And agree with the sentiment that this should be the end of it. Maybe a storyline at most and then finito.

And yeah Stennick TNA has had an alarming pattern of doing stuff like this. They put on a string of good shows but they do not get an instant ratings increase, so then they wheel out the nostalgia and the ratings are higher for a short while but then quickly fall, making them lower the nostalgia level and go for good shows again. For some reason they do not realise that it is not the nostalgia that is drawing but the string of previously good and fresh shows. Then possible new fans tune in and give them a chance and get confronted by the nostalgia again and quickly tune out.

Maybe I am wrong and it is the nostalgia that is drawing and then wearing off but that means that using it does not deliver any sustainable growth.

[TracyBrooksFan]

off to Impact tapings tonight

[20LEgend]

When will people know the buy rates?

[Stennick]

Well never really, TNA doesn't release their buyrates so it'd be pure speculation. Most of the time they average 10k and honestly I'd bet they do less than that this time since their core base wasn't going to rent a ppv that had nothing to do with TNA. Lets face it ECW fans are "smart" no pun intended so they most likely just streamed it......not that I would do something like that :D

[Slagaholic]

It sounds like The Whole F'n Show is F'n good.

[jwt13]

It sounds like The Whole F'n Show is F'n good.

r u kidding? Jeff Hardys opponet was f'n Shannon Moore and some the the match times were way too short but the end sounds good

[TracyBrooksFan]

The show was AWESOME LIVE

[TheEffect]

Personally RVD is getting pushed too quick.
Too many people deserve to be TNA world champion and tbh he's pretty ****.

[Self]

Personally RVD is getting pushed too quick.
Too many people deserve to be TNA world champion and tbh he's pretty ****.

Not sure if I'd use the words "pushed too quick". He's a star. He has a genuine connection to the fans. He's different to everyone else. He can still go. I'd push him pretty hard as a unique attraction... but I wouldn't have made him Champion either. If I were running TNA, I'd have one of my homegrown babyfaces holding the belt. Not an ex-WCW/WWE guy.

Although with the whole EV2.0 thing, it kinda works to have an ECW guy holding the strap.

[TheEffect]

Not sure if I'd use the words "pushed too quick". He's a star. He has a genuine connection to the fans. He's different to everyone else. He can still go. I'd push him pretty hard as a unique attraction... but I wouldn't have made him Champion either. If I were running TNA, I'd have one of my homegrown babyfaces holding the belt. Not an ex-WCW/WWE guy.

Although with the whole EV2.0 thing, it kinda works to have an ECW guy holding the strap.

Personally I think they should have had him defend the title at Hardcore Justice, as it would entice TNA fans to watch instead of just ECW and/or Hardcore Fans.

[Slagaholic]

Personally I think they should have had him defend the title at Hardcore Justice, as it would entice TNA fans to watch instead of just ECW and/or Hardcore Fans.

Not a single soul in the world would have paid for Hardcore Justice that didn't simply because the TNA World Title was on the line. Not to mention that it would be taking a giant **** on their top 10 contenders idea a months into it

[TheEffect]

Not a single soul in the world would have paid for Hardcore Justice that didn't simply because the TNA World Title was on the line. Not to mention that it would be taking a giant **** on their top 10 contenders idea a months into it

Good Point.

[sebsplex]

I think its like when TNA does something mildly good people over react because its so unexpected.

To be fair, the same criticism could be levelled against the reaction to the WWE Nexus storyline.

They saw a national television program dedicate a months worth of television to a long forgotten wrestling promotion thats been dead and buried more times than Jason Voorhees and they pulled a Miz "Really........REALLY". There won't be able to be any logic behind "well they left because ECW left". You KNOW that they will have Dreamer or Raven or somebody on the show next week. Their not going to forget about this after that. Or even if they don't ECW fans will tune in with hopes of getting some sort of ECW action. So if its ECW fans powering the rating it should stay right around the same, if its people who were tuning into TNA to see what the praise was about then we might see a drop.

I'm far from being a defender of all things TNA, but this looks like you're trying to address the balance of over-praise Hardcore Justice has been receiving. A months worth of television? I guess that would be true if imagined the Beer Money/MCMG best of 5 series, or the knockouts haven't been on TV at all and perhaps Mr Anderson/Matt Morgan was some rehased ECW feud? Throw in AJ winning and renaming the Global Title in a mini-programme with Rob Terry also involing Kaz, Eric Young being crazy, humping Pope dollas and throwing mannequins around, Flair/Lethal, Abyss stating 'they' is nothing to do with ECW, Joe/Hardy, etc as well as the Nash/Hogan/Sting storyline you later knock in your post. If you want to argue that's all junk you don't care about, fine, but it still happened. If anything, TNA probably came closer to underpromoting it.

I think Hardcore Justice basically did what it said on the tin. It was enjoyable, it featured many of the wrestlers that fans from ECW would have hoped to see and it served as a good send-off/nostalgia show for anyone who emotionally invested in it. In terms of quality, it was certainly no ONS and even ONS2 was arguably a better show provided you cared for the increased WWE involvement in it.

Kinda meh on the logic standpoint. Given the premise the ppv was formulated on, I don't really see why much issue with workers disappearing into the night, especially when several weren't even featured on Impact at any point. Raven, Rhino and Richards all had roles on TV before Hogan turned up and made a few cameos following that, Team 3D have always featured heavily, RVD is the World Champ and Dreamer's involvement this far has been focussed on building this event. As for guys like Axl Rotten Scorpio, etc, I doubt that many former ECW fans would really want to see them again week in and week out on TV, enjoying them for one night is something rather different.

The ratings argument is a bit of a dead end, since it runs into the same problems as trying to work out whether Hogan brought in a bunch of new fans when he arrived who replaced all the ones who left because he turned up. You simply can't prove it either way. I guess the Whole F'N Show special is TNA's way of trying to grab any curious ECW fans who give the promotion a look afterwards.

I completely agree though that they need to leave this show as a one off special and if necessary, fade away from it and move any former ECW'ers who remain involved into storylines or feuds that don't revolve around a dead promotion. However TNA have shown in the past that they see value in offering closure or further developing old storylines, like The Band, like Wolfpac Sting, (sadly the WWE have left them a lot of material with their horrible treatment of a few subjects from ranging ECW to the NWO) so there's always going to be that element of doubt that they'll rush through something drastic. My fingers are crossed that they won't.

[alden]

So i just watched hardcore justice. It was decent but i have to admit the first one night stand was a better show. I felt it had more of a ecw fell then this show did. To me this was just a show with ecw talent. The crowd was way into it though. Maybe it was styles........i so wanted a few real o my god's. I was also praying for an old school dudleys interview. I mean one that really makes the people go crazy but they are not heels right now. I want one last get the crowd almost rioting interview. I think they can still do it.

[Stennick]

Roderick Strong is backstage in a dark match with TNA tonight. Wouldn't that be crazy if they lose Black and Strong before the end of the year? Then Richards retires in December....sheesh.

Also RVD is supposed to be taking some time off soon so might we be seeing a championship change soon? Although really I'm thinking it will be after BFG because he's obviously not taking August off. What would be the point in taking Sept off if he's coming back in Oct. They'll need Sept and Oct to build for BFG. I doubt they'll let him take off their "biggest ppv of the year". So maybe he loses the title at BFG and takes time off after that?

[SaySo]

Roderick Strong is backstage in a dark match with TNA tonight. Wouldn't that be crazy if they lose Black and Strong before the end of the year? Then Richards retires in December....sheesh.

Also RVD is supposed to be taking some time off soon so might we be seeing a championship change soon? Although really I'm thinking it will be after BFG because he's obviously not taking August off. What would be the point in taking Sept off if he's coming back in Oct. They'll need Sept and Oct to build for BFG. I doubt they'll let him take off their "biggest ppv of the year". So maybe he loses the title at BFG and takes time off after that?

RVD taking time off already. How long has he been back for? Soo much for a light schedule.

He doesn't have to take the belt off of him, just not wrestle a # amount of house shows. Only have him when it matters, TV and PPVs.

That would suck for ROH, but this could mean a push for Chris Hero eh.

[Stennick]

Thats what I thought is that some of these TNA guys get a lot of time off. At some point TNA has got to stop being everybody's thing they do in Orlando to their full time job. I'm not ripping RVD maybe he's banged up, maybe his wife has a problem, who knows honestly. Maybe it was planned all along. Just in general so many TNA guys take so much time off and even with the house shows they work about half the schedule WWE guys do.

[Slagaholic]

Do they really work half the schedule WWE guys do? How many shows does a Raw or Smackdown worker have a week? They do more travel for sure, but I'm pretty sure RVD has more matches per month than the average WWE worker.

[TracyBrooksFan]

i dont want to give nothing away from the match but i have a feeling RBD did get hurt.

[Stennick]

Do they really work half the schedule WWE guys do? How many shows does a Raw or Smackdown worker have a week? They do more travel for sure, but I'm pretty sure RVD has more matches per month than the average WWE worker.

Aren't those guys on the road six days a week? I'm not exactly sure what the schedule is anymore and I don't know RVD's schedule. I just assumed RVD didn't go to a lot of the house shows and what not. Maybe I'm wrong.

[crownsy]

Aren't those guys on the road six days a week? I'm not exactly sure what the schedule is anymore and I don't know RVD's schedule. I just assumed RVD didn't go to a lot of the house shows and what not. Maybe I'm wrong.

no way is that accurate. most non-untouchable M/E guys in the E have 4 nights of work a week.

For instance, at the end of august there in boston for Raw and Smackdown. That week they are doing 3 house shows. one in cohasset on the 27th, on somewhere out west on the 28th, and one right near me at the melody tent on the cape the 29th. The melody tent seats 400 people at best.

So yea, i mean, John Cena's not working the melody tent, But according to our tickets Kofi, Dolph, Miz, drew, Morrison and Punk are for sure, and some other talent is "To be announced"

So while guys like Cena, Randy and Jericho ect may have a reduced workload Ala TNA, on the average, the E guys do more house shows.

I think overall, Stein's point is a valid one. TNA already has a reduced workload, yet they have a undeniable history of letting guys take long breaks. Seems kind unreasonable, and seems to lead to them being looked at as "that fed you go to to semi-retire"

EDIT: err ment to qoute the post above Stien saying that the TNA crew does more house shows, that is what i was saying is less accurate.

[Stennick]

I was going to say it sounded you were agreeing with me Crownsy :)

[Slagaholic]

To my knowledge RVD vs AJ Styles has main evented every house show since RVD won the title

[sheepy]

I think overall, Stein's point is a valid one. TNA already has a reduced workload, yet they have a undeniable history of letting guys take long breaks. Seems kind unreasonable, and seems to lead to them being looked at as "that fed you go to to semi-retire".


Looking at recent stories involving wrestlers health maybe this isn't such a bad thing. Personally I think TNA's style means they need to give guys time off to let them recuperate. Jeff Hardy has well documented issues which are due in part to the E forcing him to work as many nights a week so I don't think you can look and say WWE stars work this many nights a week and TNA work less and are inferior.

The other thing that giving stars time off and keeping them off screen means you can keep stars fresher for longer. If you shove stars down wrestlers throats the fans turn on them. TNA have a big, diverse roster and they can afford to freshen up the roster every now and then by pushing someone out of the spotlight and letting the other guys take their place.

[TheEffect]

To my knowledge RVD vs AJ Styles has main evented every house show since RVD won the title

Maybe a little Anderson thrown in?

[crownsy]

To my knowledge RVD vs AJ Styles has main evented every house show since RVD won the title

Aren't all thier house shows in universal studios at the impact zone?

I don't know if that's accurate or not, someone can enlighten me, but if they are that kinda makes that not so impressive as it eliminates the travel part of the equation.

Those three house shows i listed are all at least 80-100 miles apart, the melody tent one is going to be hell on travel, its on a sunday. good luck getting off cape Cod on a sunday night in late august :D

I think, for instance, that the one out west is at a bigger event, i would assume the house show main event at that show would be bigger names. But i didn't really expect them to ask many M/E guys to go to a glorified high school gym for a house show. I'm hoping we get one more in addition to punk, that would make me happy enough

[MasterJ]

No there no house shows are done in the Impact Zone they do house show all over the country they just got done doing some in NC and had about 5,000 fill a ball park in NY about a month ago

[Moe Hunter]

The other thing that giving stars time off and keeping them off screen means you can keep stars fresher for longer. If you shove stars down wrestlers throats the fans turn on them. TNA have a big, diverse roster and they can afford to freshen up the roster every now and then by pushing someone out of the spotlight and letting the other guys take their place.
Two things to remember:
*TNA has the same crowd week in week out forever, so absolutely they have a greater need to not see some guys for a while.
*Guys like Jeff Jarrett never get fresh!

I think maybe Abyss could do with a break ;) Clearly he's not "TNA's John Cena" like they were planning.

[Jaysin]

Aren't all thier house shows in universal studios at the impact zone?

I don't see how there is any logic to thinking that at all. Every episode of Impact they advertise their TNA live events at the bottom of the screen. Not even just once, but multiple times. I'll be attending one September 10th :)

[crownsy]

I don't see how there is any logic to thinking that at all. Every episode of Impact they advertise their TNA live events at the bottom of the screen. Not even just once, but multiple times. I'll be attending one September 10th :)

Must have missed that, not all that surprising considering i wouldn't pay for either outfit's house shows at the moment. Both are pretty mediocre in my view.

The only reason im going to the melody tent house show is it's literally 5 miles away and a friend is giving me a ticket (which to be fair are only a ten spot anyway for that show, not unreasonable to see the midcarders have at it)

[pate]

TWO HUGE, REALLY HUGE, NAMES LEAVING TNA
By Dave Scherer on 2010-08-11 13:57:24
On the official Twitter page of Hulk Hogan, the following was posted minutes ago:

I know you've heard the rumors brothers and they are true. Eric and I are leaving TNA on a mutual basis. I just got out of meetings now.

It was really fun but time to move on.

TNA has a new leadership coming in. Make sure you Hulkamaniacs still support them. TNA needs the power of Hulkamania to live on brothers.

Thank you Dixie and Bob Carter for the wonderful and positive experiences in TNA. Nothing but the best to you guys.

Brothers, this isn't the last of me though. You'll be able to see me at "Hulk Hogan & Friends" events on tour soon.

[Jaysin]

Posted less than two minutes ago on Twitter.

EBischoff- The Hogan twitter site that I posted is a fake one. Hulk IS getting a Twitter page up, but the most recent post is a fake.

Just posted

EBischoff- I will post the REAL page info as soon as we get it. Sorry for the confusion.

[pate]

Hah, yeah. I wasn't surprised though.


UPDATE:

Twenty minutes after the initial posts, the official Twitter page of Hulk Hogan has removed the updates saying that Eric Bischoff and he are leaving.

[Jaysin]

That isn't the official anything. It's a fake Hulk Hogan twitter.

[MasterJ]

why would bischoff give a link to a "fake" Hogan twitter him and hogan are close shouldnt he know if its not him

[Teh_Showtime]

back to the house show thing, they came to nationwide arena last month IIRC

I was out of town though I imagine arond 4-5 thousand probably attended

[TheEdgeOfReason]

back to the house show thing, they came to nationwide arena last month IIRC

I was out of town though I imagine arond 4-5 thousand probably attended

That is a good attendance. Wonder when they will pull the trigger on more TV/PPV shows outside the Zone.

[Jaysin]

The Hulk Hogan twitter is a total fake.

Some of the fakers tweets today...

@EBischoff GOT WORKED BROTHERS! He publishes information before even verifying its accuracy. How can someone like this even try to run TNA?!

That piece of **** @BTLSRadio GOT WORKED TOO!

This one was for the INTERNET WRESTLING COMMUNITY! Beat us if you can, survive if we let you!

How I got this to work: Well, here's the truth and honestly the truth, I work for TNA and am a current employee.

TNA doesn't listen to any of us backstage. We're not allowed to step on anyones toes.

So I thought this would be the best way to express my true thoughts.

I hate Bischoff. I don't hate Hogan, but I don't see him helping TNA, he's just taking money. So let us do what we do best...

And that's to provide true TOTAL NONSTOP ACTION WRESTLING. @TNADixie, this is a shoot brother. We want @EBischoff OUT!

Hogan and Bischoff always play up how we're a happy family backstage. But that's far from it. We get paid ****.

Some of us were paid better in 2006, no lies.

Some of us got our eyes on a new wrestling company coming up in Florida and you know what, if it doesn't have @EBischoff's name, it's a draw

[Hyde Hill]

The Hulk Hogan twitter is a total fake.

Some of the fakers tweets today...

@EBischoff GOT WORKED BROTHERS! He publishes information before even verifying its accuracy. How can someone like this even try to run TNA?!

That piece of **** @BTLSRadio GOT WORKED TOO!

This one was for the INTERNET WRESTLING COMMUNITY! Beat us if you can, survive if we let you!

How I got this to work: Well, here's the truth and honestly the truth, I work for TNA and am a current employee.

TNA doesn't listen to any of us backstage. We're not allowed to step on anyones toes.

So I thought this would be the best way to express my true thoughts.

I hate Bischoff. I don't hate Hogan, but I don't see him helping TNA, he's just taking money. So let us do what we do best...

And that's to provide true TOTAL NONSTOP ACTION WRESTLING. @TNADixie, this is a shoot brother. We want @EBischoff OUT!

Hogan and Bischoff always play up how we're a happy family backstage. But that's far from it. We get paid ****.

Some of us were paid better in 2006, no lies.

Some of us got our eyes on a new wrestling company coming up in Florida and you know what, if it doesn't have @EBischoff's name, it's a draw

Lol what total BS.

On a more positive note. Got to see the Carter Youshoot and you can see she has had media training hehe. Still was interesting to hear that ppv buys are/where up and even did record numbers and the monday wars shows did record overseas numbers. She also said they make many millions in profit from ppv. So all those extremely low numbers out there are probably bs.

For the rest I would have to listen to it again. On a sidenote much of the crappy matches and angles that have been blamed on Russo where actually Dutch Mantell or JJ when they still had power. And apart from the KO lockbox stuff since their removal their has been less tomfoolery.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Lol what total BS.

On a more positive note. Got to see the Carter Youshoot and you can see she has had media training hehe. Still was interesting to hear that ppv buys are/where up and even did record numbers and the monday wars shows did record overseas numbers. She also said they make many millions in profit from ppv. So all those extremely low numbers out there are probably bs.

For the rest I would have to listen to it again. On a sidenote much of the crappy matches and angles that have been blamed on Russo where actually Dutch Mantell or JJ when they still had power. And apart from the KO lockbox stuff since their removal their has been less tomfoolery.

I'd take that many millions with a huge pinch of salt.

[Stennick]

Well to be fair Hyde would you really expect her to admit pubically that their losing their (donkey) on pay per views and that numbers are down? Its a shoot but nobody is dumb enough to say "business is down all across the board and we're losing millions".

I would say the truth lays somewhere in the middle. I would think if ppv numbers were that high why wouldn't they release them? If they weren't near as low as people speculate why wouldn't they release them? I remember when they beat ECW in the ratings they were all over that. I would think anything they can do to present themselves in a more credible light they would.

I don't know what record numbers are but I can't see everybody that reports on their ppv numbers being low all being completely and totally off base. Of course maybe 20,000 is a good number for them and maybe they do make a profit.

On another note I think I heard that REaction has been scrapped and that Xplosion is not coming to Spike is this accurate? If so they went from having talks of a four hour wrestling block to being right back where they started. I wonder why they scrapped REaction.

[Bigpapa42]

Gotta agree with Stennick - TNA seems very willing to promote itself with what it can rather than hide any success. So if PPV buyrates are at least respectable, if not actually strong, where is the motiviation to hide it?

[Jaysin]

On another note I think I heard that REaction has been scrapped and that Xplosion is not coming to Spike is this accurate? If so they went from having talks of a four hour wrestling block to being right back where they started. I wonder why they scrapped REaction.

Where did you hear that? Spike TV just released a video of Hulk Hogan on their website promoting Reaction

[Stennick]

I can't remember where I heard it and like I said maybe I'm wrong. When does it debut and is it debuting on Spike T.V like previously planned?

[Jaysin]

It's supposed to debut Thursday after TNA's Whole F'n Show.

*edit* Eric posted this on his Facebook page.

Eric Bischoff, Controversy- Just watched a cut of "ReAction". Great work by a great team. Viewers will get a new perspective on the athletes, stories and behind the scenes. Props to Sully and the post prod team in Nashville! Looking forward to seeing ReAction on the air tomorrow night!

[Slagaholic]

I'm beginning to think the fake Hulk Hogan twitter fiasco is a work.

[MasterJ]

I'm beginning to think the fake Hulk Hogan twitter fiasco is a work.

I thought the same. Whoever it is if anyone has a new account @TNAnonymous

[MasterJ]

This what the guy has revealed if its a real wrestler

Current wrestler
Contract expires in October
Held a title
Was around in the weekly PPV days
Not on the house shows right now but, scheduled for Sept.

[Stennick]

I thought the guy said he was a backstage worker and that he made more money in 06 than now and that he didn't have a problem with Hogan just E.B.

[MasterJ]

I thought the guy said he was a backstage worker and that he made more money in 06 than now and that he didn't have a problem with Hogan just E.B.

I didnt see the backstage part on any of his tweets

but the hogan page just tweeted this Hulk Hogan JOINS TWITTER tomorrow during IMPACT! on SPIKE! and before that it had TNA Wrestling now holds this account. Follow @TNAonline

[nucleardonkey]

I think it's fairly obvious if the mystery tweeter really is a TNA wrestler and not just some fan that it's Samoa Joe. Look at the timing of it all. Joe is suspended for yelling about how they booked his match then all of a sudden someone is on Twitter claiming to be a TNA wrestler bashing TNA's booking.

I can see it easily being a major work leading to Joe leading a group of originals against the EV2, Hogan, Bischoff, Flair, Nash, and Sting. Possibly even with Scott Steiner coming back to join Joe and crew. (Notice the twitterer mentioned the originals all loving working with Scotty.)

It's brilliant when they only have 2 hours of taped programming a week to use the internet and outside interviews to hype, begin, continue stories.

[Stennick]

I don't know if its Brilliant, what maybe one percent of their audience has seen these tweets? You have to be the hardest of the hardcore fans to see stuff like this. In a time when they need to be appealing to masses of people I don't know if I'd call it brilliant to be appealing to a few hundred people.

I haven't seen the tweets has this person produced any proof their not some smark with too much time on their hands? Post a picture of being backstage at a TNA show, post something to prove you are who you say you are otherwise its just some kid with too much time on his hands.

I really doubt TNA is involved in this in any way.

[SaySo]

Source: http://www.tnawrestlingnews.com/headlines/283587507.shtml

Jeff Wilen of The Daytona Beach News-Journal interviewed Eric Bischoff in his latest JAWBreaker column. Among the topics discussed include the latest going-ons in TNA Wrestling, the big names working together, the tag-team division, Bound for Glory in Daytona Beach, Tommy Dreamer playing a bigger role in the organization, Linda McMahon running for a Senate seat, Paul Heyman and Rob Van Dam. Bischoff claimed during the interview that he pitched the EV2 storyline back in February and suggested that Dixie Carter reach out to Paul Heyman. "The whole EV2 story line was something I pitched in February of this year," said Bischoff. "It wasn't a Tommy Dreamer idea. Tommy's a great guy and has great experience. I called Paul and suggested to Dixie (Carter) and Vince Russo that we should reach out to Paul and see if he was interested in coming in. I don't think it will happen with Paul. He is looking for something different. I don't think Dreamer will be involved in creative. We have a solid team, with great chemistry. We've had great success the last couple weeks and months." When asked if he and Hulk Hogan plan on sticking around for a while, Bischoff replied, "We have a couple of years left on our contracts."

To read the interview, go to http://www.go386.com/jawbreaker/

[MasterJ]

Joe wasnt pissing and moning about booking he was fine with the time limt draw he just didnt want JB to tell how much time was left and the truck told JB to do it any way that caused Joe to act a ass and go into the production truck during the show which causes a well deserved suspension IMO. So I dont think its Joe but Joe did post on his twitter something like If I had somthing to say I'd say it to your get that **** straight now or someing like that

[TheEffect]

I have just figured out what will happen about the Kurt Angle winning streak angle!
I figured it out from one of the storylines in TEW 2010. Kurt Angle will reach Number 2 then get attacked backstage and lose. Then he will come back and turn heel.

[Hyde Hill]

Also of note in the shoot was the fact that TNA does have a drug policy in place, including fines for mary jane. Still as Stennick pointed out you have to take it with a pinch of salt but I would believe her in that setting over any dirtsheet.

[PeterHilton]

Also of note in the shoot was the fact that TNA does have a drug policy in place, including fines for mary jane. Still as Stennick pointed out you have to take it with a pinch of salt but I would believe her in that setting over any dirtsheet.

Not to be a jerk, but why?

Why would you believe Dixie? Has she proven herself to be a straight shooter in some way that I'm not aware of...

She's a 'wrestling promoter'..a corporate executive..(both occupations notorious for their willingness and ability to lie and frame the truth in their favor) and has ties to a company that has literally no legal or moral reason to tell the truth under any circumstance.

again..no offense...but Dixie Carter is probably the least likely person to speak the truth about TNA's financial situation you could find.

[Hyde Hill]

Because dirtsheets have the same motives and sometimes even more so. Yes the "truth" will be somewhere in the middle off course and I take both with salt. But having seen the shoot I could glean what I thought to be truthful or near the truth and what was more promotion etc. And that is the most any of us can do.

[Hyde Hill]

Well to be fair Hyde would you really expect her to admit pubically that their losing their (donkey) on pay per views and that numbers are down? Its a shoot but nobody is dumb enough to say "business is down all across the board and we're losing millions".

I would say the truth lays somewhere in the middle. I would think if ppv numbers were that high why wouldn't they release them? If they weren't near as low as people speculate why wouldn't they release them? I remember when they beat ECW in the ratings they were all over that. I would think anything they can do to present themselves in a more credible light they would.

I don't know what record numbers are but I can't see everybody that reports on their ppv numbers being low all being completely and totally off base. Of course maybe 20,000 is a good number for them and maybe they do make a profit.

On another note I think I heard that REaction has been scrapped and that Xplosion is not coming to Spike is this accurate? If so they went from having talks of a four hour wrestling block to being right back where they started. I wonder why they scrapped REaction.

Reaction has not been scrapped just delayed from the original plan.

And why should they publish their ppv results? They where not really all over beating ECW in the ratings either, plus ratings are already public as Spike pays for them and not TNA and ratings are more ingrained as a measure of success. The ppv buys are probably not as low as reported nor high enough to scream off the rooftops as a promotional tool, as far it is a useful promotional tool at all that is. All those low reports you see everywhere are intended as a way too get TNA to release their numbers and TNA is just ignoring it which they have every right too.

[ampulator]

Actually, if their PPV buyrates are higher than expected, there should be no reason NOT to release them. In fact, as long as they are unable to, or unwilling to, counter guesstimates, everyone else is going to the guessestimates are close to reality.

Not to be a jerk, but why?

Why would you believe Dixie? Has she proven herself to be a straight shooter in some way that I'm not aware of...

She's a 'wrestling promoter'..a corporate executive..(both occupations notorious for their willingness and ability to lie and frame the truth in their favor) and has ties to a company that has literally no legal or moral reason to tell the truth under any circumstance.

again..no offense...but Dixie Carter is probably the least likely person to speak the truth about TNA's financial situation you could find.

I agree, but also, she doesn't always seem to have facts straight, either because she doesn't know about it, or she's trying to obscure it. Hyde Hill should be more critical, not supportive of her, if he likes TNA so much.

[Jaysin]

Here's why I don't think the disgruntled "TNA wrestler" is Joe.

If the assumption about this person being there since weekly ppvs is correct, then it can't be Joe because Joe didn't come in until a little over 5 years ago on Impact.

[Bigpapa42]

And why should they publish their ppv results? They where not really all over beating ECW in the ratings either, plus ratings are already public as Spike pays for them and not TNA and ratings are more ingrained as a measure of success. The ppv buys are probably not as low as reported nor high enough to scream off the rooftops as a promotional tool, as far it is a useful promotional tool at all that is. All those low reports you see everywhere are intended as a way too get TNA to release their numbers and TNA is just ignoring it which they have every right too.

Its not about "proving something" to the dirt sheets, though, Hyde Hill. The dirt sheets don't mean much to a lot of the industry, or to sponsors. Success does. If the pay per view numbers are decent or above, there is no reason to hide them. Literally, no positive reason. What positive reason is there to hide success for a private company that is realiant on public perception and sponsors?

[Self]

Why do people even care? Isn't it enough to judge a wrestling show based on whether or not you enjoy watching it? Why do wrestling fans insist on analyzing buy-rates and tv-ratings? I admit to having a twinge of interest when I hear TNA did a 0.6 or that WWE buyrates are generally lower than last year, but those numbers are for the companies themselves to analyze. Not me.

[ampulator]

Why do people even care? Isn't it enough to judge a wrestling show based on whether or not you enjoy watching it? Why do wrestling fans insist on analyzing buy-rates and tv-ratings? I admit to having a twinge of interest when I hear TNA did a 0.6 or that WWE buyrates are generally lower than last year, but those numbers are for the companies themselves to analyze. Not me.
That's a great point, Self. But the problem is, TNA is losing more money than it's making in. TNA can also do better than it is doing now, considering the SHEER amount of talent thehy have.

Fans care because TNA can do better it's doing, and it's not, mostly because of it's internal issues that should take backseat to making a good show.

[Bigpapa42]

Why do people even care? Isn't it enough to judge a wrestling show based on whether or not you enjoy watching it? Why do wrestling fans insist on analyzing buy-rates and tv-ratings? I admit to having a twinge of interest when I hear TNA did a 0.6 or that WWE buyrates are generally lower than last year, but those numbers are for the companies themselves to analyze. Not me.

I have to say that I agree. To be perfectly honest, I really don't care. I don't feel under-informed because I don't know the exact numbers, and knowing the numbers - whether they great, terrible, or anywhere in between, would not affect my opinion of TNA wrestling as a fan. I simply disagree with Hyde Hill's opnion on not releasing the numbers.

However, when hardcore fans (which most of us would be considered) are discussing the business side of things (which is going to happen), the availability of such numbers is likely to become a talking point. Its really no different than hardcore sports fans of other sports - whether footie, football, baseball, hockey, whatever - getting into debates over the financial side of things. Should fans really care about things like available revenues, salary cap space, wages, revenue sharing, etc? No. What should matter is the team/squad that rolls out on the pitch/field/ice for each game/match. That's it. But that isn't the way hardcore fans work, for the most part....

[MasterJ]

That's a great point, Self. But the problem is, TNA is losing more money than it's making in. TNA can also do better than it is doing now, considering the SHEER amount of talent thehy have.

Fans care because TNA can do better it's doing, and it's not, mostly because of it's internal issues that should take backseat to making a good show.

Even with the numbers they are still making a profit ppv is not a main source of income tv is as long as their on spike ppv is not important money making wise.

[Stennick]

Well said Papa........say that just made it sound like I was giving my father praise, which of course would never happen because he's a douche....so moving on...:)

TNA has been very vocal everytime they have a success with ratings or business or sell outs as well they should be. The WWE is as well, heck in MY business I'm very bragadocious when I achieve something I can advertise back to my customers and potential customers. Its house business works.

That being said if they weren't getting 10 K buys and where getting 50K don't you think they'd be all over that? Why wouldn't Dixie come out and say "we're not getting 10 K buys, our last three ppv's just did over 60K" but instead she kept it vague.

She's the owner, president and figrehead of a company and she's not publically owned like Vince so she doesn't have to outright admit that her company is losing money.

Its fine that you want to believe Dixie but honestly Hyde if you can tell if someone is lying by watching a video then you're a very impressive person. She's in business, isn't she in the ENERGY business? Or her dad is atleast. If she hasn't learned how to lie then she wouldn't be where she's at in business. I'm not saying she's a dirty filthy liar but no doubt she's mastered the ability of putting her spin on things which I'm sure is what she's done. Just because its a shoot interview doesn't mean its true. If Hogan did a shoot interview tomorrow I seriously doubt it'd be the most truthful account of things.

I enjoyed their product, heck I went to Lockdown the pay per view, I bought a Desmond Wolfe t shirt, I've supported them when I was enjoying their product. However it really bothers me when Hogan's slamming a 700 pound giant that died the next day, or when Bischoff says he had full control over his locker room in 98, or when Dixie claims their setting record ppv buys without offering a shred of evidence other than her word to combat everybody else dirt sheet and ppv insiders saying she's completely full of it.

[ampulator]

Even with the numbers they are still making a profit ppv is not a main source of income tv is as long as their on spike ppv is not important money making wise.
You misunderstand. The problem isn't MAKING money. The problem is LOSING money. If they break even, I could care less. It's not necessarily the best situation, but at least they are making ends meet.

However, LOSING money? That means TNA will eventually have to shut down. There's only so much money you can dump into a losing venture before you have to cut your losses.

I absolutely endorse the idea of TNA dumping most, if not all, their PPV's. They don't make money on it anyway. What's the point?

[Hyde Hill]

Actually, if their PPV buyrates are higher than expected, there should be no reason NOT to release them. In fact, as long as they are unable to, or unwilling to, counter guesstimates, everyone else is going to the guessestimates are close to reality.



I agree, but also, she doesn't always seem to have facts straight, either because she doesn't know about it, or she's trying to obscure it. Hyde Hill should be more critical, not supportive of her, if he likes TNA so much.

I am critical, I dismissed other parts of the shoot out of hand and said you could see the media training. Look the only sources we as the interested public have are dirtsheets and official statements/interviews of those involved right now and in the past. I am critical off all these sources and the truth is in the middle imho. Am I inclined to believe her when she said that she maid millions off of ppv. Sure np as that is easily reached given they have 12 ppv's now is this revenue after all costs? That is a different question.

And apart from her confusing booking with promoting as it refers to her organising wrestling events in college I have not seen her make any truly false statements. Maybe exaggerations etc but nothing too bad.

And as to why not releasing the ppv data. Hmm giving your competitors free info you do not need to give them is the first reason that comes to mind. TNA is not a public company and they should take maximum advantage of that. If I was TNA I might be more proactive in disclosing all my figures but I can certainly understand that TNA does not do so.

[Hyde Hill]

Its not about "proving something" to the dirt sheets, though, Hyde Hill. The dirt sheets don't mean much to a lot of the industry, or to sponsors. Success does. If the pay per view numbers are decent or above, there is no reason to hide them. Literally, no positive reason. What positive reason is there to hide success for a private company that is realiant on public perception and sponsors?

Lol proving my point. They keep the numbers to themselves but do disclose them to relevant partners like sponsors. As far as public perception goes I already made my case that ppv numbers are a negligible factor in that. Even ratings are not as strong as is believed, as far as a marketing tool.

And even if they did release said numbers what do they have to gain other then proving the sheets wrong? If one of their ppv´s ever outsells their major competitor in the same month. Sure that could be useful as a marketing tool. Otherwise nope.

[Hyde Hill]

Well said Papa........say that just made it sound like I was giving my father praise, which of course would never happen because he's a douche....so moving on...:)

TNA has been very vocal everytime they have a success with ratings or business or sell outs as well they should be. The WWE is as well, heck in MY business I'm very bragadocious when I achieve something I can advertise back to my customers and potential customers. Its house business works.

That being said if they weren't getting 10 K buys and where getting 50K don't you think they'd be all over that? Why wouldn't Dixie come out and say "we're not getting 10 K buys, our last three ppv's just did over 60K" but instead she kept it vague.

She's the owner, president and figrehead of a company and she's not publically owned like Vince so she doesn't have to outright admit that her company is losing money.

Its fine that you want to believe Dixie but honestly Hyde if you can tell if someone is lying by watching a video then you're a very impressive person. She's in business, isn't she in the ENERGY business? Or her dad is atleast. If she hasn't learned how to lie then she wouldn't be where she's at in business. I'm not saying she's a dirty filthy liar but no doubt she's mastered the ability of putting her spin on things which I'm sure is what she's done. Just because its a shoot interview doesn't mean its true. If Hogan did a shoot interview tomorrow I seriously doubt it'd be the most truthful account of things.

I enjoyed their product, heck I went to Lockdown the pay per view, I bought a Desmond Wolfe t shirt, I've supported them when I was enjoying their product. However it really bothers me when Hogan's slamming a 700 pound giant that died the next day, or when Bischoff says he had full control over his locker room in 98, or when Dixie claims their setting record ppv buys without offering a shred of evidence other than her word to combat everybody else dirt sheet and ppv insiders saying she's completely full of it.

Lolz I only reported what she said and said why I am more inclined to believe her then the dirtsheets. I am not gobbling it all up. Again we only have that many sources and I am very critical. It sounds you need to become more critical of the sheets Stennick. But let's not argue that. Anyways as long as TNA is still making more money off of ppv then they would from a tv special type system and they are still bound to the ppv contracts they have signed it is all speculative.

[Bigpapa42]

Lol proving my point. They keep the numbers to themselves but do disclose them to relevant partners like sponsors. As far as public perception goes I already made my case that ppv numbers are a negligible factor in that. Even ratings are not as strong as is believed, as far as a marketing tool.

And even if they did release said numbers what do they have to gain other then proving the sheets wrong? If one of their ppv´s ever outsells their major competitor in the same month. Sure that could be useful as a marketing tool. Otherwise nope.

You seem to be thinking I believe that TNA should release the numbers. I honestly do not care. Its their right to keep them secret.

My entire point is that if the numbers are at least respectable, there is no reason not to release them. I'm not saying they have to, but the only logic reason to hang onto the numbers is to protect them. Now if the sponsors know, its not to protect the sponsors from reacting negatively. How exactly would the WWE use these numbers against TNA? If the TNA sponsors know, Vince can't exactly tell them something they already know and WWE doesn't acknowledge TNA's existence on-air, so its not going to be used in that regard. The WWE literally would not care, any more than they would that TNA was drawing 0.50 ratings on Monday nights. So if you have a positive number, something which either does no potential harm to your promotion or actually makes it look good, why maintain secrecy? Basically, what do they stand to gain by protecting the information? The only way they gain something is if the numbers are poor or worse, it would be somewhat embarassing to TNA. Does it do them serious harm in any? No. Just some "I told you so's" from people who really don't matter.

[Stennick]

I'm critical of everyone Hyde, I'm critical of my own two year old daughter. When she says "Dadda" I say "NO ITS DADD-Y with a Y DAMMIT, NOW AGAIN FROM THE TOP"

Ha Ha I kid....seriously I'm not the biggest Dave fan in the world. I think its funny that now days (not you) smarks are saying "Man screw Dave" when ten years ago the guy was untouchable and god like on the internet.

That being said I maintain my point. Before the WWF was publically traded they released numbers, as did WCW, as did ECW, as does ROH I believe or they atleast give a more honest outlook on things.

You don't have to beat them in order to release the numbers. Nobody is expecting guys who tape a full month worth of shows in two days on a t.v studio to go up against the global giant of the WWE and win. However if they released on their website "thank you to the 50,000 people that ordered the pay per view" that could be a good marketing tool.

If you say "thank you to the TEN thousand that ordered it" well then I'm thinking "I'm glad I missed that if only ten thousand people wanted to see it anyway". But if I hear 60 or 70 thousand people ordered a TNA pay per view I might be inclined to say "damn what am I missing". It can and should be used for a marketing tool if in fact the numbers aren't as low as the dirt sheets claim they are.

That being said Dixie can be VERY delusional when it comes to TNA. Atleast with WCW and the WWF ONE group of people had Eric or Vince's ear. It feels like every month somebody new has Dixie's ear. They change direction, focus and defocus on workers seemingly at will.

Remember they were building Morgan up, I was enjoying his "we" stuff. Heck they were promoting him for a pay per view match up against Ink Inc and then out of nowhere boom they bring Joe back on television and have him cost Morgan the match.

Ok that doesn't make much sense why you would kill that character dead like that. So now you're thinking well now their going to do Joe vs. Morgan, but if they did do that I missed it. It certainly wasn't the big deal it should have been given Joe returning and given Morgan losing the tag titles all in one segment.

Its things like that, its things like Desmond Wolfe being number one in the polls for weeks at a time and when he's given a title shot its a throw away match in which they don't even mention his poll standing. Its like Desmond being one of the biggest deal in the promotion and then turning into Hogan and Flair's whipping boy before being cast down to Xplosion.

But then Dixie with her tweets makes it seem like its all part of a plan when in reality there can't be a plan. There is no way people set out in Febuary and planned that Joe stuff, or planned Desmond to beat Kurt Angle and two months later be getting beat up every week.

I like Dixie but the truth is what experience does she have in pro wrestling? Whether its Jarrett, or Nash, or Angle, or now Hogan and Bischoff it seems like the guy that has her ear changes yearly and you can tell with who's pushed and how their pushed. Jarett was the focus of the show, then Angle, now Hogan/Flair, etc. Its like whatever WWF cast off former main eventer comes to TNA that year gets to tell Dixie what to do for the year.

I liked TNA for roughly three months but I've soured on them. I'm not a fan of EV2.0 or whatever its called. I think its silly, I think its lame and I think the only thing worse than former WWF guys taking up screen time is having former ECW guys taking up screen time. I like Tommy but the guy does nothing for me. The only time I've seen him do a great promo is when talking about ECW 15 years ago, I like Team 3D but they have 20 something tag team titles I'm sick of seeing them on my screen. Rhino the last time this guy was relevant was back when he was feuding with Christian or when he decided to burn the ECW title and declare it dead only for Dixie and TNA to bring it back to life (again).

Impact was at an all time peak from Lockdown until right before Hard Justice. I just need more from TNA to keep me interested than three good months of television. They've proven maybe for the last time that they can't keep focus on anything for more than two pay per view. I don't watch the WWE and TNA was starting to feel like a good old fashioned pro wrestling show but their right back to having ADD guys writing their shows.

[ampulator]

You seem to be thinking I believe that TNA should release the numbers. I honestly do not care. Its their right to keep them secret.

My entire point is that if the numbers are at least respectable, there is no reason not to release them. I'm not saying they have to, but the only logic reason to hang onto the numbers is to protect them. Now if the sponsors know, its not to protect the sponsors from reacting negatively. How exactly would the WWE use these numbers against TNA? If the TNA sponsors know, Vince can't exactly tell them something they already know and WWE doesn't acknowledge TNA's existence on-air, so its not going to be used in that regard. The WWE literally would not care, any more than they would that TNA was drawing 0.50 ratings on Monday nights. So if you have a positive number, something which either does no potential harm to your promotion or actually makes it look good, why maintain secrecy? Basically, what do they stand to gain by protecting the information? The only way they gain something is if the numbers are poor or worse, it would be somewhat embarassing to TNA. Does it do them serious harm in any? No. Just some "I told you so's" from people who really don't matter.

I agree. The root of the problem, though, is TNA should cut most of the PPV's when they have the chance to do so. And there doesn't seem inclined to do it. They probably don't make enough money doing it. Hell, ROH PPV's make more money. And that's saying something, when a much smaller company does better PPV's. That's not to add their show attendance is probably better than TNA's as well.

TNA isin't making a lot of money of PPV's. It's been repeated by TNA UBER-SMARKS that they don't make money, so they don't matter. If that's the case, TNA fans should push TNA to cut PPV's, not defend TNA's stance on them.

[MasterJ]

I agree and I think this Whole F'n Show is a test run with that

[Self]

So are Bubba Ray and Devon back together now? I thought with the whole Jesse Neal storyline, they were breaking up. I seem to remember an interview about six-months ago where Bubba said he was basically done, but Devon thought he had a singles run left in him, so I was assuming the entire story was leading to a retirement match between the two of them.

To anyone who saw the ECW PPV; did Team 3D seem like it was a one-night only thing, or does it look like it has it been shelved?

[ampulator]

So are Bubba Ray and Devon back together now? I thought with the whole Jesse Neal storyline, they were breaking up. I seem to remember an interview about six-months ago where Bubba said he was basically done, but Devon thought he had a singles run left in him, so I was assuming the entire story was leading to a retirement match between the two of them.

To anyone who saw the ECW PPV; did Team 3D seem like it was a one-night only thing, or does it look like it has it been shelved?
I hate to say this, but Stennick is wrong on this... they don't have ADD, they have ADHD. Those writers go through storylines like Jim Cornette goes through burgers.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/wisdm/attachments/7798/addhd.jpg

[Stennick]

H Ha Jim Cornette through burgers thats funny.

Self I think what happened was Jesse Neal beat him on an episode of Impact, he called out Devon, and shannon moore and they all randomly made up after months of build up.

That my friends is what I'm talking about. They made up so they could do this EV2.0 faction which if it was truly planned since Feb they why start a storyline with Bubba you have to end early? Anyway Bubba apologized and all was forgiven, the match between Bubba and Neal was I think just under six minutes long.

[D16NJD16]

I think its obvious whats goin on here.

[Slagaholic]

AJ and Kurt was great as expected. Great free PPV opener.

[ampulator]

AJ and Kurt was great as expected. Great free PPV opener.
It's Kurt Angle and AJ Styles. Of course it's going to be, at the very least, a good match if both are in good health in mind and body.

[Jaysin]

I don't know if I'm more excited for Angelina winning the title or Velvet helping her.

I miss them together. I still love Madison, but Velvet and Angelina had a lot of chemistry together.

Anderson, Pope, and Morgan was a little short, but I liked it a lot.

Shannon vs Jeff was really good as well. I'm hoping it elevates Shannon's status in a lot of people's eyes. I've been a fan of his for a little over ten years now. Definitely an underrated talent in my opinion.

[Slagaholic]

Best timing of a mid-match commercial break ever.

MCMG vs Beer Money is living up to the hype.

[Slagaholic]

Wow.

[Jaysin]

That match was just amazing.

[The Final Countdown]

Wow.
No kidding. I figured Angle/AJ would be MOTN easy, but the Guns and Beer Money blew it out of the friggin water.

[TracyBrooksFan]

That tag team match LIVE was amazing but it was amazing on TV also

[Jaysin]

Holy crap...That had to kill RVD

[Stennick]

What had to kill him?

[Jaysin]

He ended up not being hurt. At least he didn't show it anyway. I was talking about the spot where RVD got pushed over and his legs got caught on the top rope and he landed rather awkwardly head first onto the ladder set up between the ring and security railing.

[Slagaholic]

"I want to thank Dixie Carter for taking me places I have never been."

"Rob Van Dam and his band of gypsies raised the bar in TNA."

That was Hogan's best TNA promo.

[Slagaholic]

****ing awesome. Everyone in Fortune became stars in TNA and were never stars in WWE. It actually makes sense.

This may have been TNA's best PPV ever...and it was free!

[The Final Countdown]

Maybe it's just me, but I have absolutely no interest in a feud between various TNA heels and the ECW faction. Mainly because I have no interest in seeing most of the ex-ECW guys wrestle in 2010.

[MasterJ]

This is awesome!! TNA indeed raised the bar tonight Fortune is They imo

[Slagaholic]

I think this is what it's all about. Fortune

Matt Morgan
AJ Styles
Kazarian
Beer Money
Doug Williams
Abyss

Never had more than a cup of coffee in WWE and never worked for ECW or WCW. They are all home grown TNA stars.

When you think about it, I'm pretty sure Jay Lethal is the top TNA face right now that hasn't previously worked for WWE, WCW or ECW.

Perhaps this storyline is TNA's final goodbye to the Attitude Era? One can only hope.

[TracyBrooksFan]

I think this is what it's all about. Fortune

Matt Morgan
AJ Styles
Kazarian
Beer Money
Doug Williams
Abyss

Never had more than a cup of coffee in WWE and never wrestled in ECW or WCW. They are all home grown TNA stars.

AJ did wrestle in WCW but never was a star there

[Hyde Hill]

I think this is what it's all about. Fortune

Matt Morgan
AJ Styles
Kazarian
Beer Money
Doug Williams
Abyss

Never had more than a cup of coffee in WWE and never worked for ECW or WCW. They are all home grown TNA stars.

When you think about it, Jay Lethal is the top TNA face that hasn't worked for WWE.

Except for AJ.

And you could count Joe as a face.

[Slagaholic]

Oh yeah I forgot about Air Raid.

This reverse NWO angle has confirmed that the Twitter hullabaloo is a hoax for me. And that it'll end up being Samoa Joe.

[Jaysin]

Such a great Impact. Hopefully next week's is a good follow up.

I'm enjoying Reaction so far though.

[Stennick]

Air Paris for the win FTW

[Slagaholic]

I said it before when I saw ReAction before. This has a chance to be a great show just needs some fine tuning.

[MasterJ]

I like it I think they should start TNA Thursdays at 8 and from 8 to 9 have a reaction from the week before the impact then a new reaction

[pate]

Shannon Moore? Really? I was expecting Helms, which wouldn't have made me that excited anyway, but this is even worse.

I was disappointed in Morgan/Pope/Anderson.

Other than that, I enjoyed it a lot.

[Slagaholic]

To build on that idea. What if TNA combined Xplosion and ReAction and air that before Impact.

2 or 3 first run matches, and an edited down ReAction would be a great lead into Impact.

But I also like the idea of having reaction (oh I get it now!) from the end of Impact carry over to Reaction. Perhaps taking the "Impact Player of the Week" idea and include a classic match involving them.

[Hyde Hill]

To build on that idea. What if TNA combined Xplosion and ReAction and air that before Impact.

2 or 3 first run matches, and an edited down ReAction would be a great lead into Impact.

But I also like the idea of having reaction (oh I get it now!) from the end of Impact carry over to Reaction. Perhaps taking the "Impact Player of the Week" idea and include a classic match involving them.

Wouldn't that fit Epics better? Lolz. Anyway hope to see TNA get more programming on Spike as it is good for the bottom line. Weirdly enough pre Reaction Spike was one of the few countries with only Impact on tv and no xplosion/epics etc. And I would rather see another two hour block on tuesday consisting of Reaction and Xplosion then such a big Thursday block.

[Self]

So I'm watching Impact (or whatever it's called this week) in between customers, and man alive it's been too long since I've seen AJ and Angle wrestle each other. They're great.

That being said, AJ is an awful heel. He's a great wrestler, but everything he does seems designed to thrill the audience, which is the exact opposite of what I believe a heel is supposed to do. Not a single person in the crowd dislikes him. He reminds me of Spike in later seasons of Buffy The Vampire Slayer. He's technically 'evil' but everything he does is either bad ass or funny or cool. Even when he's playing arrogant coward, AJ is so entertaining that he's an overwhelming babyface.

I really liked Madison's hair in the women's match. It quickly looked tangled and messy, adding to the illusion that this was a real fight. The timing of the ending wasn't great, too many things going on at once, but this was fine. Big Madison Rayne fan.

I also really like Mr Anderson's character. I feel slightly ashamed of that fact, but I do. The 3-way was a bit short though, and Jeff/Shannon lacked passion. Babyface vs babyface, especially when the babyfaces are friends and one is way above the other on the ladder, with nothing on the line. Passionless.

Looking forward to the rest of the show (which I'll get to later). Guns/Beer Money at least. The Hogan thing and Abyss/RVD doesn't interest me in the least, but I'll try to power through.

EDIT: Fantastic Guns/Beer Money match. I think I'm going to have to download every match in their series, just so I can keep them for all eternity. Robert Roode impressed me in this match. As a worker he's better than Storm. He doesn't have 'moves' but he sells really well and for a heel that's very important. He helps the Guns be cheered without drawing praise his way. If he had more character I'd totally be in love with the guy.

Storm taking out Raven at the end was classic. Go Fortune!

[Fleisch]

I was disappointed. Bischoff built it up to be this epic show and it was... mediocre at best. Shame because there was alot of potential for an amazing show, but it wasn't really any better than previous Impacts... in fact I'd say it was worse. TNA needs some direction, and fast! Hardy v Moore... not good booking on whoever thought this would be "oh my god". It's annoying because I want TNA to do well, I want their storylines to make sense, but they just don't and the worst thing, no one within the company seems to be bale to see it!

[Slagaholic]

If you didn't enjoy that show or think that it was worse than previous Impacts I have no clue what you'd want in a wrestling show.

[Slagaholic]

The Whole F'n Show did a 1.15 which is down .06 from last week.

ReAction did a .87

Not bad numbers but not great either.

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm would have hoped they would do better on the whole show but that is a very good number for Reaction. Possibly means the ppv system is here to stay for a while at least. Also gives further evidence it is not the show itself that garners ratings (unless heavily promoted) but putting a string of good shows together does.

[Bigpapa42]

I was hoping the show would draw strong ratings, simply for the fact that emphasizing the in-ring action over the storylines and angles is a direction I would really like to see TNA take. If they hit 1.35 or something, I think they might have run with it.

[Stennick]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this wasn't exactly heavily promoted. Didn't they just plan this a few weeks ago? Its not like they gave it a month or two of buid up. They just threw it together and they didn't make it special. They didn't air it on a Saturday night. They were in the same place, with the same crowd, in the same building their always in.

If they wanted to make this special promote it better, make it truly like a pay per view up and down the card have guys going at it. Instead they made it the show after a pay per view.

This didn't draw because it was poorly promoted, planned and timed.

[Hyde Hill]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this wasn't exactly heavily promoted. Didn't they just plan this a few weeks ago? Its not like they gave it a month or two of buid up. They just threw it together and they didn't make it special. They didn't air it on a Saturday night. They were in the same place, with the same crowd, in the same building their always in.

If they wanted to make this special promote it better, make it truly like a pay per view up and down the card have guys going at it. Instead they made it the show after a pay per view.

This didn't draw because it was poorly promoted, planned and timed.

Well it drew the normal number exactly because of the reason's you outlined above. Seems to be that people have different definition of what heavily promoted entails. Promoting it on the show itself one month or so in advance with a real ppv to promote at the same time is not heavy promoting. What is more interesting is the long term effects of this show as it comes to ppv buys and television ratings and the international ratings this show will garner.

[Stennick]

The last show they heavily promoted was the show they popped a 2.6 on. I saw that all over the place, they mad that first Monday night show their first ever one. THAT felt like a big time show. The hype, the feel. The show itself wasn't great compared to some of their others but the hype and promotion they put into it was a pay per view like atmosphere.

Also I really don't think naming a show "The Whole F'n Show" is that great. It just seems they threw this together at the last moment.

I would have tried to come up with a name like Saturday Nights Main Event, Clash of the Champions, something that you can use again, something thats going to roll off the tongue.

Also as both Hyde and myself pointed out. This came RIGHT after a pay per view just four days later. It was a big version of Impact, more so than their pay per views. They should have put this special on right before Bound for Glory.

It will be interesting if TNA says "see we tried that route and it didn't have any effect". Or if they recognize it was thrown together. My faith in TNA is at an all year low right now so my judgment is biased other than the fact that this was a pretty good show with bad promoting behind it.

[SaySo]

You always hear of promoting, advertising, marketing Total Nonstop Action.

But why haven't they done enough? Is it too expensive to go all out like they did before Jan 4th, 2010 show continuously?

[Stennick]

It is expensive but if you look at ALL of the guys they have signed that have made zero impact on the success of that company.

Hogan, Bischoff, Sting, Nash, Hardy, Anderson, RVD, Foley, Angle.

I wouldn't bat an eyelash if thats five million dollars sitting right there. Its like a sports franchise. You have a budget or a salary cap. You have to balance the expensive "stars" that are uselful and put talented inexpensive youth around them.

Some of those guys have made an impact. Some of them haven't. Is Nash important at this point? What about Sting? Foley? Angle is not as healthy as he once was. He's expensive.

If they took SOME of those guys off the payroll and added that to the advertising budget they'd really have something. I'd say an extra five million spent on ADVERTISING would draw in more ratings than five million spent on guys who can barely if at all wrestle.

Thats where TNA has it wrong. Its no longer about the wrestlers. the WWE is a brand, if John Cena left tomorrow their ratings wouldn't waver. MARKET and ADVERTISE and you will see and increase of your product if its worth anything.

[Hyde Hill]

It is expensive but if you look at ALL of the guys they have signed that have made zero impact on the success of that company.

Hogan, Bischoff, Sting, Nash, Hardy, Anderson, RVD, Foley, Angle.

I wouldn't bat an eyelash if thats five million dollars sitting right there. Its like a sports franchise. You have a budget or a salary cap. You have to balance the expensive "stars" that are uselful and put talented inexpensive youth around them.

Some of those guys have made an impact. Some of them haven't. Is Nash important at this point? What about Sting? Foley? Angle is not as healthy as he once was. He's expensive.

If they took SOME of those guys off the payroll and added that to the advertising budget they'd really have something. I'd say an extra five million spent on ADVERTISING would draw in more ratings than five million spent on guys who can barely if at all wrestle.

Thats where TNA has it wrong. Its no longer about the wrestlers. the WWE is a brand, if John Cena left tomorrow their ratings wouldn't waver. MARKET and ADVERTISE and you will see and increase of your product if its worth anything.

Don't forget that those same names also generate income in other ways then just pure increase in ratings merch sales overseas deals licensing etc etc, which on average have gone up since all those signings. And yes advertising costs a lot and I mean a lot of money. Brand awareness still remains TNA's biggest problem. At least the quality of the product has gone up since the move back to Thursday's. Now they really need to see where money can be saved without hurting quality and income etc and putting all of that into marketing.

And Stennick you are exaggerating with the zero Impact. Record ppv buys, record house show attendance, merch sales, record television rating. I keep wondering if the quality had been the same as it is now and they had not done the Monday move which lost them momentum where they would be now.

[Stennick]

I agree Hyde that SOME of them have been valuable to the company. Hardy, Anderson, RVD, Bischoff, Hogan and Flair off the top of my head are the guys that are valuable right now.

Foley, Nash, Sting and Angle's deteriorating body I would say are on the chopping block if I were in charge. Add Christy Hemme and her 500,000 a year on that. Seriously if Christy pulls in half a mil a year what are the boys making? Is Angle really making the same money as Christy? To coin a phrase "I don't think so". (Thank you Ric Flair). Oh add Team 3D in there as useless money pits as well.

I know Sting's making a million in cash a year. I know Spike WAS paying part of that but I doubt they would be paying some of Sting's salaray while sticking Bob Carter with Bischoff, Hogan and Flair's large salaries. Not too mention with Angle and others I doubt Spike is still footing any of the salaries. If they were paying these guys in salary then the shows wouldn't be worth as much to them as say Unleashed re runs which do about half the number of Impact and cost them nothing. So I would venture to say at this point Spike has dropped out of footing the bill for salaries.

I understand these guys bring in some value with merchandise sales but lets be honest I seriously doubt their breaking even on these contracts in merch sales. Maybe they are but I think its a safe bet that between Foley, Nash, Sting and Angle there is atleast 2 million dollars in salaries. I'm sure Sting's mil is still in tact, I'm sure Angle has got to be CLOSE to that cash wise as well. I doubt Angle would come in, be the center of focus for the show three years now and not atleast want to be paid what Sting is being paid. You know Nash doesn't do anything unless his bank account if fixed up. Foley maybe came in for little money. None the less Angle, Sting, Nash there has got to be atleast two million dollars in tied up money out of those three. Of those three maybe Sting's worth his weight in merchandise sales but Angle and Nash have spent most of their time in TNA as heels and the shows I've been at I haven't seen too much of their merch being moved.

Advertising costs a lot of money and ratings aren't everything but lets be honest they kind of are. Television ratings tell you how many people are watching your show. How many people know your'e out there. If you can't move the needle more than a few ten thousand this way or that way you're never going to get anywhere. They have got to stop investing in every WWE cast off that comes there way looking for work. These guys cost money and very few are worth it.

As I said Sting was worth it, Christian was worth it, Angle was worth it. Nash? Not so much, Foley not so much. These guys aren't going to move the television ratings and increase brand awareness. They have signed every big name wrestler that isn't employed by the WWE and their sitting on the same rating they were four years ago. Its time to go with a new approach. Sit back, resist the urge to sign Shane Helms (who's injured a ton anway and in his mid thirties, cheaper, more talented indy talent to bring in) and TWGTT. Sure its neat from a fans perspective to see these guys but on TNA's level nobody is going to pay to see The World's Greatest Tag Team when they just saw the two worlds greatest tag teams at The Whole F'n Show. TNA is stacked with talented and they have let their women's division go down the drain.

I agree some of these guys are worth it but a lot of them aren't. Maybe there was a time a Nash was worth his money but really who has the guy "made" in TNA. The closet they ever came to finding a role for Nash that was valuable to their company was when he was with Alex Shelly. As much as people like MCMG, heel Alex Shelley with Nash was good. You want to call John Morrison the young Shawn Michaels, Alex had that arrogant, talented, youth down.

Mic Foley what has he added? He's spent half his time in TNA feuding with Raven, Dr. Stevie.

Team 3D their job there if they ever had much of one is done. These guys have virtually never interested me and I'd say that although everyone overrates them nobody overrates them as much as themselves.

If Hemme is making 500,000 a year I'd say TNA could cut 5 million in expenses easy. Even if advertising on the level they need cost double or triple that atleast it eases the burden.

Think about this. Hulk Hogan's peak moment in pro wrestling is generally considered Wrestlemania III. That was in 1987, in 1994 he went to WCW. So he was in WCW seven years removed from the biggest year of his career. None of these names their bringing in are seven years removed from being the biggest pro wrestling superstar in history. Bischoff worked because he brought in the biggest names in the business years removed from them being at the very top of the all time ladder. Hogan, Savage, Nash, Hall, Hart, (a much lessor extent). They have tried that method and it didn't work. Dixie should look at Eric and tell him she wants the house cleaned by the end of the year. Of course she won't because she's "loyal to keeping people who were loyal to her jobs". Except for Christopher Daniels who apparently was making too much money but Christy Hemme isnt....

[ampulator]

Kurt brings some of the best matches for TNA. Cutting Angle NOW would be stupid. Later on? Maybe. But it would one incredibly stupid move, considering how WWE would capitalize on such a move.

He's far from used up. If he was in WWE with his regular obligations, yeah, but he would have done YEARS ago. Kurt Angle being in TNA has extended his shelf life.

As for Sting, hey, he's making easy money off of them. It's just they have no idea how to use him. Everytime a contract comes up, he's about to quit... until they offer him more money for doing very little. At this point in his life, easy money, is well, easy. TNA is being stupid that's all.

[Stennick]

Yeah exactly their all making easy money. Christy Hemme is at the top of that list. Does Christy do any house shows? Or does she get 500,000 for three nights of work a week.

If you're TNA its not about the WWE capitalizing on anything. They are not at war with them. Their bottom lines aren't close to the same, their television and pay per view buys aren't close to the same. Their in the same business with the same fans but honestly if Kurt Angle was the asset he's supposed to be and he'd be something that could give the WWE a push higher then he'd be doing more for TNA than drawing them the same ratings they have been drawing for the last four or five years.

Kurt has a few good matches in him but he's 41 and he's not the same wrestler he was 4 years ago. I don't pretend to know what Kurt's personal life is like but with Lance Cade and others dropping like flies its no secret that Kurt had past demons. Without even so much of a drug testing in house Kurt's the kind of high profile name that carries some risk with him. Maybe thats all behind him, but at this point when you have 29 year old kids dropping dead I'm not willing to say its behind anybody.

My point is let Kurt finish out this year with amazing matches, maybe even keep him around till Slammiversery or whenever his contract runs out. Do a Ric Flair gimmick with him a goodbye tour and what not. Kurt's not going to hold up much longer and sometimes you got to beat father time to the punch. I'd rather cut Kurt when he's got a few good one's left in him than cut him after he's past his expropriation date in pro wrestling.

I think if there is one thing TEW has taught us is that smaller promotions have to be careful with their money. TNA has a billionaire on board but he's not Ted Turner he's not going to sink money into this to win at all costs. And if so then why are they so willing to sink the money into the wrestlers but no money into advertising for them.

[Fleisch]

If you didn't enjoy that show or think that it was worse than previous Impacts I have no clue what you'd want in a wrestling show.

Parts of the show I did enjoy, that doesn't mean I have to say "Oh my god the whole show was f'n awesome" because it wasn't. It didn't draw more people, it didn't have a "wow" factor, it was a mediocre Impact show that was built up as some "supershow". Are you telling me you went, Holy Sh*t when Shannon Moore came out as Jeff Hardy's opponent? I kinda more went with a "WTF? Pointless" Beer Money vs. MCMG and the AJ vs. Angle match (which again wasn't their best together, but good nonetheless) were the only decent matches, IN MY OPINION. The rest of the show was nothing special.

Comments like yours are why people get wound up with us Internet fans, because you're not allowed an opinion without someone giving you a snide comment back just becaue they think you're "wrong" or you don't agree with their perceptions. It didn't add anything to the thread, just antagonistic.