The Official TNA Discussion Thread

[sheepy]

Yeah exactly their all making easy money. Christy Hemme is at the top of that list. Does Christy do any house shows? Or does she get 500,000 for three nights of work a week.

If you're TNA its not about the WWE capitalizing on anything. They are not at war with them. Their bottom lines aren't close to the same, their television and pay per view buys aren't close to the same. Their in the same business with the same fans but honestly if Kurt Angle was the asset he's supposed to be and he'd be something that could give the WWE a push higher then he'd be doing more for TNA than drawing them the same ratings they have been drawing for the last four or five years.

Kurt has a few good matches in him but he's 41 and he's not the same wrestler he was 4 years ago. I don't pretend to know what Kurt's personal life is like but with Lance Cade and others dropping like flies its no secret that Kurt had past demons. Without even so much of a drug testing in house Kurt's the kind of high profile name that carries some risk with him. Maybe thats all behind him, but at this point when you have 29 year old kids dropping dead I'm not willing to say its behind anybody.

My point is let Kurt finish out this year with amazing matches, maybe even keep him around till Slammiversery or whenever his contract runs out. Do a Ric Flair gimmick with him a goodbye tour and what not. Kurt's not going to hold up much longer and sometimes you got to beat father time to the punch. I'd rather cut Kurt when he's got a few good one's left in him than cut him after he's past his expropriation date in pro wrestling.

I think if there is one thing TEW has taught us is that smaller promotions have to be careful with their money. TNA has a billionaire on board but he's not Ted Turner he's not going to sink money into this to win at all costs. And if so then why are they so willing to sink the money into the wrestlers but no money into advertising for them.

I don't see how you can make a case for Kurt to be let go of due to "substance abuse" and yet in the same post say they should be focusing on RVD, Kennedy and Hardy all of whom have equally terrible records for being drug abusers and one of whom has come very close to a 5 year jail stretch for drug dealing.

Kurt is still IMO capable of being their number one star and the fact he isn't is more down to the fact he's having some time off atm whilst he does this rise back to the top. There are very few TNA wrestlers who properly understand the basics of using psychology in a match and Kurt is the one bloke you can look at and can sell a story.

If anything, I'd argue for continuing to build the promotion around Angle as he has far more staying power at the top of a promotion than RVD, Kennedy or Hardy.

[Shmoe]

I don't see how you can make a case for Kurt to be let go of due to "substance abuse" and yet in the same post say they should be focusing on RVD, Kennedy and Hardy

RVD smokes pot. He's also said numerous times in interviews there's a fine line between use and abuse, and he sits firmly on the use side. Anderson and Hardy on the other hand, you're right but for somebody that lights up every now and then, that's nothing to get too worried about.

[Hyde Hill]

From the good old Hamilton Avenue on 411 mania:

"TNA's ratings have not been stagnant. When the show premiered in 2005, the ratings were a 0.80 average. After that, the ratings have gone:

2006: +12.2% to 0.90
2007: +16.6% to 1.05
2008: +0.8% to 1.05
2009: +8.0% to 1.14
2010 (YTD): -9.7% to 1.03

If it wasn't for the move to Monday's, TNA would be showing a continued trend upwards over five years. These are significant jumps in ratings for Spike, and that is what matters."

And they do have drug testing and the lighter schedule TNA has allows for healing time.

I think I read somewhere that they signed Hemme's to a new contract which was lower, still we do not know any of this for sure.

I do agree with your point of trying to see where cuts can be made and where that can be reinvested into advertising but you are taking a kind of bleak view on everything Stennick and relying on sheet information.

[Slagaholic]

Parts of the show I did enjoy, that doesn't mean I have to say "Oh my god the whole show was f'n awesome" because it wasn't. It didn't draw more people, it didn't have a "wow" factor, it was a mediocre Impact show that was built up as some "supershow". Are you telling me you went, Holy Sh*t when Shannon Moore came out as Jeff Hardy's opponent? I kinda more went with a "WTF? Pointless" Beer Money vs. MCMG and the AJ vs. Angle match (which again wasn't their best together, but good nonetheless) were the only decent matches, IN MY OPINION. The rest of the show was nothing special.

Comments like yours are why people get wound up with us Internet fans, because you're not allowed an opinion without someone giving you a snide comment back just becaue they think you're "wrong" or you don't agree with their perceptions. It didn't add anything to the thread, just antagonistic.

I wasn't making a snide comment. I was being honest when I said that I can't comprehend what you want in a wrestling show. Of everyone I've talked to about this show you are the only person I've come in contact with that thought it was mediocre and was not better than the previous Impacts. You're also the only person I've come in contact with that thought MCMG vs Beer Money was only decent. And finally you're the only person I've come in contact with that believes the choice of Shannon Moore to face Jeff Hardy seriously affected your thoughts on the show.

I wasn't being an ass, I was being honest. Your opinion intrigues me. Your response has only peaked my curiosity.

I must know: What do you look for in a wrestling show? What about the previous Impacts were superior to The Whole F'n Show? What is your all time favorite tag team match (gimmick matches not included)?

[Self]

To kinda back-up Fleisch here, I liked the show, but I wasn't blown away by it either. Beer Money vs MCMG was very good, but I'm not even sure if it's my favourite match of the series, let alone MOTY. The triple threat was a let down. Shannon vs Jeff was soulless. The women's match only adequate. Having little-to-no interest in Hogan and ECW, and hating Abyss with a fiery passion, the ending did little to keep my interest until James Storm waffled Raven with the beer bottle, which was funny. If they'd closed with the tag match, and had them cut promos throughout the show hyping it up, maybe I would have enjoyed the show as a whole a bit better.

However, it must be said that I'm a guy who likes talking with his wrestling. This show lacked the verbal spark I enjoy. It lacked a good promo by someone I care about.

It was certainly better than the last Impact I watched (the go-home for Hardcore Justice, which I thought was one of the worst wrestling shows I've ever seen) but nothing that blew my mind. It was good. Not great.

[Slagaholic]

I agree the go-home show for Hardcore Justice was an abomination from top to bottom.

[Stennick]

Hyde if I'm reading that right they have gone from a .9 average to a 1.14 average. If thats the case although its trending up I don't consider a .24 jump in the ratings over five years "trending upwards". To me thats stale. If you sign Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Nash, Hall, Erich Bischoff, Jeff Jarrett, RVD, Mr. Anderson, Jeff Hardy, Mic Foley, Kurt Angle, Team 3D, The James Gang, Sting, Christian Cage and Booker T.

Before mentioning anyone else look at that roster. Before mentioning any TNA originals or guys like Joe and other top indy talent. Look at that roster. Two things pop out at me. How expensive that roster is compared to Abyss, Joe, Styles, Lethal, MCMG, Eric Young, Beer Money, LAX, Matt Morgan, Desmond Wolfe and others are.

The second thing that pops out to me is that the first lineup is an all star cast. How many world champions are on that list? How many multiple champions are on that list? If we were composing a list of all time draws those guys would all be at the very top of that list. With that lineup and most of it there at the same time aside from Hogan and Flair and if I'm reading it right they have gone from an average of .90 to 1.14 in five years? How many millions have they spent there to bring their average up by .24?

Also if TNA has a drug testing policy point to me one time there has been a violation? I'm sure they keep it private but point to me one time a star of any significance has been kept off television for a set of tapings or two. Point to me one time there was rumblings of somebody being suspended for a drug policy. I've never heard the first word about ANYONE failing a drug test in TNA. So either every single wrestler in TNA is clean or TNA management keeps those things to themselves. Thats fine if they keep them to themselves but what persay would the punishment be? A hefty fine? In every organized athletic event in the United States including the WWE who has suspended Rey Mysterio one of their top draws, Randy Orton, etc. I find it hard to believe they have any sort of real drug testing policy in place or if they do the consequences for failing one must be so light that they might as well not have one.

That point I'm trying to make is .9 to 1.14 is stale to me. Thats not much of an improvment. If a regular television show had that sort of improvment it would be so minor that no one would speak of it. The WWE has had .24 flucuations in their television ratings on a weekly basis and in five years thats the best they can come up with. When WCW was on its dying days it was bringing in what 2.0's? The WWE nearly triples this rating. So its not like there aren't more wrestling fans out there to be found. The WWE pushes between four and five million viewers every week. My point isn't "OMGZ WWE IS BETTER" but my point is what is their excuse for not latching onto that fan base? Smackdown, heck ECW and Superstars drew at or above TNA.

They went the hire every former WWF/WCW star in the world and try to make people recognize us that way. The problem is that didn't work. Sting's merchandise sales may be a nice boost for the company but personally at this point if I'm TNA I'd rather spend a million on advertising than make whatever they are making off of Sting's merchandise. If they dropped every major name they had tommorow they would be at the same rating. They have shown time and time again that they have a CORE audience that will watch no matter who is pushed and no matter how bad the show is. I'd take that core audience, drop the expensive salaries of guys in their 40's and 50's and I'd plug that money right into advertising.

The reason A.J Styles isn't one of the biggest stars in the world is because nobody knows who he is. Stop paying for Nash's summer home and more Christmas collectibles for Foley and plug that money into advertising.

I'm not going off of any real "sheet" information Hyde its just simple math. Kevin Nash, Sting, Foley, Team 3D, Christy Hemme and others. All these guys put together are making quite the dollar amount. I've not heard Hemme resigned a lower contract in fact I would imagine if they signed her to a contract I can't imagine how they could go back and say "you know what we're sorry we signed you to this absurd amount of money we need it back so will you take a lower amount". At the very least I'm almost sure they had a buyout clause that got her a bigger payday than the entire KO division will get all year. With just Nash, Sting, Foley, 3D and Hemme alone I wouldn't bat an eyelash at that bottom line being around 2.5-3 million dollars. Their paying just those couple of people alone 3 million a year to keep the same ratings they had before half of them were hired.

[Stennick]

On the other note I'm in the category of this show not being as good as the iMPACTS from Lockdown until the ECW invasion. AJ/Kurt and the tag match were the only things about this show that I enjoyed. I hate ECW, Abyss is annoying, the women's match was awful and Hardy/Moore did nothing for me. As Self mentioned there was no real promos by anyone I cared about to add to it. The show wasn't bad and its better than the last month of ECW stuff but its not their best impact this year.

[Slagaholic]

On your point about ratings being stagnant. If you look at viewership trends for most TV shows they tend to lose viewers the longer they are on the air. An upward trend is a positive no matter what for Spike TV. It's not necessarily what TNA wants, true. Spike gets two hours of prime time every week that normally does a 1 or higher that is aimed at their key demo. If the ratings are on an upward trend it can only be good.

Did Spike sink a lot of money signing the big names you listed? Yes. But if TNA keeps getting 1s and continues their upward trend (I'm ignoring the Monday Night fiasco to better illustrate my point.)

Spike TV is a niche cable network whose overall viewership has been dropping like a rock. Should TNA be doing much better? Perhaps. Could TNA be doing much better? Most definitely. While I agree with your premise that they should spend more money on advertising, let's not act like TNA is a sinking ship.

And on your point about TNA's drug policy I can only say that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Especially when it comes to the inner workings and policy of a privately owned company. Information related to drug policy penalties and failed tests hurt both the company and it's workers, I don't think it's too far out of the question to think that TNA doesn't compromise storylines for drug policy violations. For example perhaps Samoa Joe's unexplained kidnapping and disappearance was really a drug policy violation. We don't know for sure.

[Stennick]

Well said Slag and I agree with your points. I'm not trying to make it sound like TNA is on its deathbed because I don't think it is.

I just think for that all star roster they have composed to go from a .9 to a 1.14 in five years is a small amount of improvement considering they have invested so much money into these stars both in the past and today.

My initial point and I stand by it is that the people that make up that 1.0 are going to watch TNA no matter what as long as its not up against RAW. No matter who was booking, no matter who was the focus, no matter how awful storylines got they kept that 1.0. If I were looking at that and forming a strategy to build on that I'd say complete youth movement. Not because their better, not because thats what the internet wants to see. But because the Bucks and MCMG, even AJ and Joe cost far less than Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sting, Angle, etc.

It just feels like TNA wants to throw these names in the ring and say "watch us". I don't watch Spike T.V except for TNA do they advertise for TNA during the UFC stuff?

Being in the television business its sad to see Spike who actually had some original programming to start out with become the Fight network reality show network slash syndicate television network.

They reach as many homes as the USA Network as TNT, FX, TBS, A&E, AMC, etc and yet all of those stations have invested money into original programming and its paid off in dividends. If Spike were to get a hot original show on their network they could bolster everything around that.

[Jaysin]

Being in the television business its sad to see Spike who actually had some original programming to start out with become the Fight network reality show network slash syndicate television network.

Manswers, Deadliest Warrior, Pros vs Joes, Scrappers, Blue Mountain State, 1000 Ways to Die...none of those are original series?

[Stennick]

Not in the tradional sense. Well Blue State is the rest are reality show type category. Those are all niche programming and should be mostly regulated to late night and weekend airings. I'm talking about a comedy a drama with first rate acting and writing.

Blue State is a traditional television series but just from the commercials I'd say its not exactly going to set the world on fire. However its a step in the right direction the rest of them are not traditional television series'

Manswers, is not going to draw what Burn Notice, Sons of Anarch, Mad Men, etc. draw.

[Self]

I liked Blue Mountain State. I found it a pleasant watch.

Anyone else watch Reaction? What did y'all think? I like the idea of a calmer, more reflective show. Giving weight to events just by spending time reacting to them. The little interview bits were hit and miss, but it's nice hearing these guys talk.

That being said, I gave up after the MCMG section. Not sure how long the show is supposed to be (1 hour?) but at that point it felt like enough. Maybe I like the theory behind the show more than the actuality.

[LiquidSwords]

Recently I was talking to one of my friends and he used to be a big wrestling fan. He kind of knows about TNA but the only names that he know is the older guys such as Sting, Nash, RVD. I asked him if he knew who AJ Styles and Samoa Joe were and he didn't have a clue.

[TheEffect]

Just watched the whole f'n show and the mcmg vs beer money match was the best match i have ever seen. Huge future for those 4 imo

[cappyboy]

Being in the television business its sad to see Spike who actually had some original programming to start out with become the Fight network reality show network slash syndicate television network.

They reach as many homes as the USA Network as TNT, FX, TBS, A&E, AMC, etc and yet all of those stations have invested money into original programming and its paid off in dividends. If Spike were to get a hot original show on their network they could bolster everything around that.

You know, Stennick, there's one very simple thing it feels like Spike needs to do from their end and I've been saying it pretty much since they became Spike. They need to study their counterpart. They need to study Lifetime.

Not that Spike should just copy what Lifetime does, masculinize it and go. But say what you want about the specifics of Lifetime's approach, "Television for Women" isn't just a slogan to them. They have a vision of what that means. All their hallmarks are aired with a purpose. Whether it be the woman-in-jeopardy movies, the female centric sitcom reruns like Designing Women, Golden Girls and The Nanny or their dramatic series like Army Wives and Drop Dead Diva, nothing's there by accident. Every show and movie is there for a reason that ties into their vision. Spike's never had that vision.

Maybe I'd consider watching more their material if they could decide what being TV's man-cave (which could be a good slogan for them BTW) actually means to them. Do they want to be the live action lad mag suggested by shows like Manswers and Blue Mountain State? Do they want to be the combat channel as suggested by shows like Impact, Ultimate Fighter and Deadliest Warrior? Do they want to be syndie style home for gee-whiz-ain't-it-cool shows like CSI and Star Trek: TNG? They don't have a firm grasp on their identity the way Lifetime does. If more folks knew what to expect from Spike the way they do Lifetime, perhaps ratings wouldn't be as much as an issue

As such, it's not surprising that TNA and Spike have they relationship they do. They both have consistency issues and are forever chasing after objects that seem shiny rather than establishing a firm vision and using their assets accordingly. And in both cases, there's plenty of room for them to be as valuable as they imagine themselves to be if they did. You could almost say it's the perfect marriage that way.

[Hyde Hill]

Well said Slag and I agree with your points. I'm not trying to make it sound like TNA is on its deathbed because I don't think it is.

I just think for that all star roster they have composed to go from a .9 to a 1.14 in five years is a small amount of improvement considering they have invested so much money into these stars both in the past and today.

My initial point and I stand by it is that the people that make up that 1.0 are going to watch TNA no matter what as long as its not up against RAW. No matter who was booking, no matter who was the focus, no matter how awful storylines got they kept that 1.0. If I were looking at that and forming a strategy to build on that I'd say complete youth movement. Not because their better, not because thats what the internet wants to see. But because the Bucks and MCMG, even AJ and Joe cost far less than Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sting, Angle, etc.

It just feels like TNA wants to throw these names in the ring and say "watch us". I don't watch Spike T.V except for TNA do they advertise for TNA during the UFC stuff?

Being in the television business its sad to see Spike who actually had some original programming to start out with become the Fight network reality show network slash syndicate television network.

They reach as many homes as the USA Network as TNT, FX, TBS, A&E, AMC, etc and yet all of those stations have invested money into original programming and its paid off in dividends. If Spike were to get a hot original show on their network they could bolster everything around that.

Thing is those names are not just for us the viewers but for their other partners. I remember quite clearly it being mentioned that the signing of Sting got them the Spike tv deal in the first place, it also goes towards the international market, which is where TNA makes most of its pure profit, those big names help heaps. Yes the upward growth within the US ratings wise and possibly ppv buyrates has not been as high as one would hope with all those names brought in. But TNA's lateral expansion has been big and the total size of their business has increased a lot.

Problem is ratings are a tangible thing and the US is their home market and still the biggest market, so it is hard to say what influence those names have had in signing better or more deals with other television networks. And this is not even bringing in sponsorship and other licensing deals.

[SaySo]

Ratings average in the last three years.

iMPACT! 2010 AVG 1.03. (w/o Monday ratings, 1.10).
iMPACT! 2009 AVG 1.15.
iMPACT! 2008 AVG 1.06.
iMPACT! 2007 AVG 1.04.

Source: http://www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2010-ratings/

Numbers regard a change in time slot and the additional of another hour of iMPACT.

From Wikipedia, i pulled this out.

FSN Time Slot (Fri 3pm) AVG 0.3
SPIKE (Sat 11pm) AVG 0.7
SPIKE (Thu 11pm) AVG 0.9
SPIKE (Thu 9pm) AVG 1.0
SPIKE (Thu 9pm 2 hrs) AVG 1.2
SPIKE (Mon 9pm 2 hrs) AVG 0.82
SPIKE (Mon 8pm 2 hrs) AVG 0.78
SPIKE (Thu 9pm 2 hrs) AVG 1.2

[Stennick]

That only shows an increase of .13 in ratings. At any rate there is no need to look at averages. We know that the 1.26 they popped is one of their biggest all time ratings. Since 06 they have steadily had right around a 1.1 or so. Their biggest bumps in the ratings before this year have been when Sting came in bringing them to 1.0 on a consistent basis and when Angle showed up it bumped up to 1.1 those are the only two signings I have ever seen have an impact on the ratings. In fact now that I think about it , what did Hogan's TNA's debut do? Was his TNA debut the Monday night 2.6 rating?

Hyde you bring up a good point about the international market. I have no idea the goings on in that market and what those names have to do with that. Most of them had a purpose at one time.

Team 3D have been there since what 05/6? Sting's been there since the same, Nash has been there the longest. Angle was a scary move at first (due to his addiction problems that cost him his WWE job) but a good move.

I see the Foley signing, I hear about Helms, Moore, TWGTT, Mickie James all signing and I say that those guys are going to be triple what more talented guys on the indy scene are going to be. Do people recognize them? Sure but what does it matter when their going to watch despite knowing or not knowing the guys. The ECW thing I get, they might have actually turned a profit on the last pay per view when you look at how little they paid the talent compared to television ratings and I would imagine roughly the same ppv buyrate as always.

However that being said I don't know much about their international markets and just how visible their brand is outside of the United States.

Right in in 2010 they are moving forward, they have shown their capable of compelling television, the ratings have bumped up, they seem to have a somewhat focused main event.

If I were them I would not resign Nash for what he is making now. Same with Team 3D and same with a lot of these guys. Stop talking about the future guys like Styles and Joe and the MCMG being the future and just do it. I've been hearing about "the future" since 2000 WCW and I've yet to see anyone truly pull the trigger on it. I want to stop hearing "youth, young, new blood" and I just want to start seeing it. Stop talking about passing the torch and give me Jay Lethal vs. A.J Styles for the TNA Championship, give me more MCMG vs. Beer Money, re invent the X Division.

[Eisen-verse]

Stop talking about the future guys like Styles and Joe and the MCMG being the future and just do it. I've been hearing about "the future" since 2000 WCW and I've yet to see anyone truly pull the trigger on it. I want to stop hearing "youth, young, new blood" and I just want to start seeing it. Stop talking about passing the torch and give me Jay Lethal vs. A.J Styles for the TNA Championship, give me more MCMG vs. Beer Money, re invent the X Division.

100% agree with you here. Yes, It's cool to see WWE castaways make a potential impact on the industry with TNA; however, at some point, I really just want to see new characters. We've been force-fed the same names, and faces, for the last 10 years and I, for one, would love to see Styles vs. Lethal. Bring that 'next wave' into the fold right now.

Also, I agree with the X-Division needing to be re-invented. It could be a great asset for them; however, as we all know, fans have been saying that for years.

[Hyde Hill]

Does not really need re inventing so to speak but needs to be put more on the forefront again. Still kind of hard to do with all that talent and all those titles compared to their television time. Hope Williams and Lethal feud for it, which then transitions into a Lethal Kaz feud and then a Daniels Kaz/Lethal one hehe.

[Stennick]

See I think Lethal is above the X Division title. The guy has been feuding with Ric Flair or was.

A.J should win this title and Lethal should feud with A.J

Kaz should be in the television title hunt

The X Division title is great but part of the fun of the X Division title for me has always been fresh faces.

Jay Lethal has shown he can hang with the big boys.

The X Division title has been virtually meaningless since Joe/A.J/Daniels were feuding for it in 05.

In a fantasy world they would use one of these t.v specials for the X Division. Have the X Division title wind up in controversy and have a one night, all out tournament for it on like a Saturday night. I'd like to see greater focus, a more clear idea of who is even in it, and have it defended along with the Television title every show.

The X Division is one thing they have that the WWE doesn't. Push it to the forefront and use it as a vehicle to not only gain new viewers but introduce those viewers to new faces.

[Hyde Hill]

This goes back to the whole title prestige vs prestige of the holder. If they want to re increase the titles prestige they need to have someone with a higher prestige fight over it. Lethal as you said has a higher prestige then the title's prestige atm. Once that has happened you can have the 'fresh' faces feud with the eventual winner Eckos and or Strong are good candidates.

[Stennick]

To each their own but if I'm pushing Lethal towards the main event and I give him the X Division title, if I want fresh faces eventually somebody beats him for that X Division Championship that isn't "on par" with the main event level.

Like I said to each their own but I don't like my main event guys taking losses to my lower card guys. I see the X Division title much the same way as the Cruiserweight title. Its a great jumping off point but its not the destination for the workers.

[Self]

Personally I've always wanted to see the X-Division like the Lightweight division of UFC. Smaller guys who you kinda know would get creamed by the heavyweight dudes, but that fact isn't shoved in our faces. They're a separate entity, which allows a few of them to look dominant and therefore become stars. It's the belt that truly separate them from the competition, so I'd push it hard.

I'd have Lethal headline it. Williams & Kaz as direct challengers. Bring in a bunch of new guys at the lower end of the division, because I too enjoy fresh faces.

[TheEffect]

Does anyone else think they seriously need Shark Boy back, a bit of comedy relief?. I would love to see a Shark Boy vs Doug Williams feud, it would be a comedy vs serious sorta thing.

[Jaysin]

I have always disliked Shark Boy, so no, I don't want him back :p

[Hyde Hill]

Does anyone else think they seriously need Shark Boy back, a bit of comedy relief?. I would love to see a Shark Boy vs Doug Williams feud, it would be a comedy vs serious sorta thing.

EY is better comic relief and not so much a sympathy jobber. If they need a sympathy jobber sure use him otherwise nope.

[Eisen-verse]

EY is better comic relief and not so much a sympathy jobber. If they need a sympathy jobber sure use him otherwise nope.

I'm glad that they have EY back to being a comedic character. I didn't really buy the whole "I'm with the band" thing that TNA tried to run with. There was no real connection between them what so ever and then, all of a sudden, he's part of the 'famous' Hall/Nash/Waltman trio? Seems a little weird. Plus, he's better off (EY) as a comedic character right now as he's actually entertaining in that manner. ha.

[Hyde Hill]

As long as they don't take it as far as super eric again. He needs to be goofy and weird but not ridiculous in the comedic role.

[ChrisKid]

I'm glad that they have EY back to being a comedic character. I didn't really buy the whole "I'm with the band" thing that TNA tried to run with. There was no real connection between them what so ever and then, all of a sudden, he's part of the 'famous' Hall/Nash/Waltman trio? Seems a little weird. Plus, he's better off (EY) as a comedic character right now as he's actually entertaining in that manner. ha.

He was terrible in The Band (i just didn't see why he was in it) and i'm also happy he is back to his comeidic ways but his World Elite stuff was good

[Slagaholic]

As long as they don't take it as far as super eric again. He needs to be goofy and weird but not ridiculous in the comedic role.

Tagging with in a mannequin isn't ridiculous? :P

[ChrisKid]

Tagging with in a mannequin isn't ridiculous? :P

Well :p

[Hyde Hill]

Tagging with in a mannequin isn't ridiculous? :P

More weird/goofy. Yeah it's a fine line lolz. I thought the mannequin stuff was funny but I loathed the Super Eric stuff.

[ZMAN]

I like the UFC comparison that was made for the X Title. I would say, put the X and TV as your midcard belts, both with their own weight limits. Then make the World Title the non-division, mixed, top notch belt that anyone can go for.

I donno, maybe that makes it seem too organized for prowrestling company.

[Stennick]

Say what you will about WCW but they had a great track record of bringining in fresh faced cruiserweight stars, pushing them and moving them up.

Dean Malenko, Rey Mysterio Jr, Chris Jericho, Juvy, Kidman, all of these guys started out with the cruiserweight title and over time the morphed into bigger parts of the company.

In 96 it was mostly Dean and Rey that anchored the division. Then in Then Kidman shed his Flock image in 98, they got Juvy going.

After those guys outgrew the division and started with The Filthy Animals and what not the division got stale and boring mostly with the likes of Disco Inferno and of course the Russo run. Prince Iakea had it for a while and it never got its footing back until once again in 2001 they started pushing new guys with it.

Chavo, Shane Helms, etc.

Its a great vehicle to bring someone in, display just how talented they are in the ring, let the fans get used to them in that role of jaw dropping matches, throw in some minor storylines and let them organically grow out of the division.

I would say that division and the television title division are in the same boat. They need the ten minute time limit for the T.V title that can MAKE a heel and makes the division look strong. The babyface is beating the hell out of the heel and has him pinned but its 10:01 so the match is over. He covers him for the three count and right at the count of two time expires. If that babyface had one more second they would be champion.

From those divisions you move onto the next step. Obviously it doesn't need to be that structured but thats where I'd put it at.

[ZMAN]

10 minutes isn't bad. I remember they used to do something similar when they were on FSN. There was a clock, and the names of who was wrestling at the top of the screen. Felt legit, I just wouldn't want it on the entire show.

[Stennick]

Well I only suggest ten minutes for the television title since thats what WCW did and it had some classic feuds just over the ten minute gimmick.

[Hyde Hill]

I like the UFC comparison that was made for the X Title. I would say, put the X and TV as your midcard belts, both with their own weight limits. Then make the World Title the non-division, mixed, top notch belt that anyone can go for.

I donno, maybe that makes it seem too organized for prowrestling company.

I wouldn't go with weight limits but more with style "limits" so to speak. X Division is more modern with cruisers, super juniors, puro's, luchadores. Television more entertainers, brawlers, technicians and regular wrestlers. Off course there is some crossover but you get my point. Both being midcard belts at around the same level and then the same world title type like you said.

[TDubRaiders]

I miss the old X division. I very much enjoyed WCW's cruiserweights division back in the day and I felt like TNA's X Division was right on par with WCW's division a few years ago but they def moved away from it. I would love to see TNA take WCW's approach and have some guys from overseas come over and wrestle. I enojyed the old Japanese and Mexican masked wrestlers in WCW and would nlove to see some of the newer guys intergrated into the X Division

[SaySo]

The subject of Paul Heyman working for TNA was brought up during an interview with MMAFighting.com's MMA Hour Live.

In discussing TNA, Heyman commented, "They're not ready for me. They're not there yet. I kind of have self-justified my own interest in TNA as a network of stock and ownership. I left pro wrestling in December 2006 and I haven't done one shoot DVD, one convention appearance, one cameo. I haven't done anything on wrestling."

Heyman said the company approached him several times in the last year but he never took it seriously until Dixie Carter contacted him, at which point he was intrigued by the potential of ownership points and stock and working with the SpikeTV network. He felt they weren't ready for what he could bring to the table, describing some of the aspects of MMA that could be brought back to pro wrestling.

Heyman noted that if he never does anything in wrestling again, "I've had my fill" and said that TNA is still unclear as to what they want their own vision to be. Heyman said that TNA is looking for the immediate answer and not the long term planning.

Heyman commented that if he was a legend in TNA, he wouldn't want Paul in the company. "If you were over 40, I'd chop your f***ing head off." Heyman said if he was asked to run the New York Yankees, he'd ditch Derek Jeter and A-Rod and find the next generation because the big stars are on the end of their prime. "I want a guy who is entering the prime of his career and shape him and mold him."

Heyman said it's all about a "long term investment" and not about "grabbing the brass ring just next year." He said he doesn't want a bunch of guys in their 40s.

Heyman said older talents should be used for promotional events and autograph signings and video games but not as the nucleus. He discussed the angle where Ric Flair's Fortune beat up the former ECW alumni and noted the focus was on ECW guys in their 40s, Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair, not the core group of younger TNA talents.

Heyman then said, "Imagine if all they did the entire show" was promote the Beer Money vs. Motor City Machineguns match and had Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan and the ECW guys saying they needed to see that match and said these guys are the future now. Then, if you put that match in the main event - as opposed to the middle of the card with no follow-up - and produce and present them as the main event. Then, if "you buy this product, this is the progressive type of presentation we are going to present to you." Instead, you have Hulk Hogan in his 50s thanking ECW guys in their 40s before the ECW guys (who Heyman specifically thanked for "everything they brought to my life") are beat up by a group led by Ric Flair in his 60s.

Heyman said that he doesn't have the mechanism to go back in time but does foresee how things should change going forward. He mentioned his mother's time in the Holocaust and said he grew up understanding that you can't look back and waste time and have to look forward, or someone else will.

===

Stock and ownership? Or is he talking in IOUs?

[Hyde Hill]

Nope as TNA is still in the black. Or if it isn't that in his view he will turn it around and put it in the black. Making the older guys supporting characters I can applaud but chopping their heads off nuh uh. Plus the guns was the semi main and it was the end of the series and it was followed up on Reaction.

They where not ready for him? More likely they did not want to give him 10 percent of the company with a guarantee of going public which he said he would be asking.

Gotta love the spin. Still too bad they could not work something out.

PS credit is to PWI for that summation that sayso reacted on.

[jwt13]

I just thought of somthing, what if the "They" Abyss was talking about was ROH Guys? I think that could lead to a good story with ROH workers signing with TNA as Strong has a very good chance at a contract and if they could get some more guys it could be pretty cool imo. But I think the they is Fourtune

[Self]

I thought the Guns/Beer Money match was underpromoted, and clearly presented as less important as the ECW stuff. It was semi-main, and the Guns were on for like 5 minutes of Reaction (tops) and I don't recall seeing Beer Money at all. When you have a MOTY candidate (I have my reservations, but that's just me) shouldn't that go on last? Was the quality somehow surprising to them?

Totally agree with Paul Heyman's stance. Young blood. I want to see some new guys in wrestling. WWE has NXT, but they're all cookie-cutter dudes. At least with TNA some wackiness is allowed to seep through.

[Hyde Hill]

I prefer young blood as well but also understand you can't have just young blood. Especially when you are laterally expanding aka expanding overseas like TNA and for other reasons. Yes make them support characters but cutting them away completely nah. Some can just go as they have been eclipsed by bigger stars from their time period and or company.

[Stennick]

Making the older guys supporting characters I can applaud but chopping their heads off nuh uh.

It depends on what guys their talking about. He said it himself the ECW guys are over 40 and shouldn't be featured in this way. What is Team 3D adding to TNA at this point? As I pointed out in previous posts there are very few legends I'd keep around. Hogan, Sting, Flair, MAYBE Nash if you can find a non wrestling role for him and decrease his salary. The rest of them aren't adding anything to TNA but television time that can be and should be given to younger guys. I'm so sick of the young guys vs. new guys talk. I've been hearing it since 1999 and I'm sick of it. Paul's right they could be doing more with some of these legends to promote other stars and their not.

Plus the guns was the semi main and it was the end of the series and it was followed up on Reaction.

It was a semi main event that was clearly made less important than the ECW stuff, it was a semi main event that was touched on all of five minutes on ReAction. If this is the MOTY people say it is shouldn't they be hyping it till the cows come home.

I agree with Paul all these statements and I'm not even the biggest Paul Heyman fan. His track record is spotty at best. The stuff he did in ECW some of it was great, but the rest of it was junk. He gets a pass because he was booking New Jack so people say "yeah but look what he did with the talent". Well look what Vince Russo did with Austin, Rock, etc. Talent rises to the top all the time unless your WCW or TNA.

He came into Smackdown and he was doing a fantastic job but that run lasted all of what? Six, nine months and he was demoted? He was doing well in OVW but again he didn't last.

Aside from ECW which was mostly garbage with a few gems thrown in. Even then its not like they had television or anything like that so the storylines never really ran like traditional weekly storylines anyway.

Since then he spends a year in a place, he does a great job and then gets fired. Anybody can write a great first chapter, I want to see if the rest of the chapters are that great.

[Slagaholic]

Self! MCMG were TNA's Impact Players of the Week! Surely that means something to you!

Beer Money closed out ReAction with what was one of my favorite segments on the entire show.

ECW wasn't really mostly garbage, the entire Attitude Era was mostly garbage.

[Hyde Hill]

Yes it was made less important then the TITLE MATCH and the big angle which they just had a ppv of. They knew it would be a good match and Tenay hyped the **** out of it. Could it have main evented? sure, should it have main evented possibly, was it just a forgotten midcard match as Heyman makes it out to be? No. And the Guns and Beer Money together got more speaking time then 5 minutes on Reaction imho.

[Hyde Hill]

It depends on what guys their talking about. He said it himself the ECW guys are over 40 and shouldn't be featured in this way. What is Team 3D adding to TNA at this point? As I pointed out in previous posts there are very few legends I'd keep around. Hogan, Sting, Flair, MAYBE Nash

Agreed and I would remove Nash and sub with Foley. Hogan and Sting and Flair pretty much have Nash's fanbase covered and are bigger legends, Foley has a more unique fanbase that covers almost all the ECW guys who can only drum up support as a group at this time, so once hopefully fortune beats the snot out of them they are done.

[Self]

Beer Money closed out ReAction with what was one of my favorite segments on the entire show.

They did? To be fair I stopped watching after the MCMG stuff. Got bored. Is that show an hour long? If so that's WAY too much for a recap show in my book.

[Slagaholic]

Yeah I'm not sure how much more they could have hyped MCMG vs Beer Money. They talked about it all show leading up to it, they fellated it while it was happening, they had a well done feature re-tracing the entire history of MCMG in TNA on ReAction. What did Heyman want? A bill board in time square hyping 4 guys no one but wrestling fans know exist?

[Hyde Hill]

I just thought of somthing, what if the "They" Abyss was talking about was ROH Guys? I think that could lead to a good story with ROH workers signing with TNA as Strong has a very good chance at a contract and if they could get some more guys it could be pretty cool imo. But I think the they is Fourtune

More new wrestlers? They need to release some and preferably get Xplosion on tv in the States before they start hiring. Except maybe for Knockout's which have suffered an exodus.

[Slagaholic]

They did? To be fair I stopped watching after the MCMG stuff. Got bored. Is that show an hour long? If so that's WAY too much for a recap show in my book.

Yeah it's an hour. It dragged on towards the middle.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah it's an hour. It dragged on towards the middle.

Yeah to be honest the KO stuff and Dreamer and Dixie stuff bored me. Fortune, Guns, Angle, Anderson, Abyss was nice.

I just want the old BP back together again because they had the best chemistry and no more Lacey, even though she is generic hot, and Madison, even though she is the least bad wrestler of the BP. The BP are supposed to be the anti knockouts not the whole focus of the division imho. Anyone else with me?

[Self]

Yeah I'm not sure how much more they could have hyped MCMG vs Beer Money. They talked about it all show leading up to it, they fellated it while it was happening, they had a well done feature re-tracing the entire history of MCMG in TNA on ReAction. What did Heyman want? A bill board in time square hyping 4 guys no one but wrestling fans know exist?

Let. Them. Talk.

Give Beer Money the microphone and let them talk for a few minutes about how this is going to be the biggest ****-kicking of all time. Let them tell the world how important this match is to them.

Give Motor City Machine Guns the microphone and let them talk. Talk about how good it felt to get those belts. Talk about why them don't like Beer Money. Talk about why a 2/3 falls match has the potential to be the greatest match in the history of the world.

You don't become a star just by wrestling. Nowadays, you gotta talk too. You have to let the world grow accustomed to the sound of your voice, and learn about who you are outside of the ring (in kayfabe). People relate to characters. Mike Tenay hyping the match is one thing, but it doesn't get over who James Storm is (Beer drinkin' cowboy ass-kicker) Who Robert Roode is (I have literally no clue) Who Chris Sabin is (X-Division prodigy) Who Alex Shelley is (See Bobby Roode). Let. Them. Talk. Before the match. Not after.

Okay... after too.

[Slagaholic]

I agree. Good point.

[Hyde Hill]

I agree but the whole point of the last show was that it would be all action. I can forgive Anderson's talking as it is part of his entrance and almost forgive the Hogan stuff as it was a cool beatdown. But the whole point of this particular show was no talkie talkie and if you want talkie talkie watch reaction.

[Hyde Hill]

TNA Impact quarter-hour ratings: A full breakdown how the all action, no talk format of The Whole F'n Show special performed in the ratings
Aug 16, 2010 - 03:52 PM

By Jason Powell

The following are the quarter-hour ratings for the August 12 TNA Impact television show.

Q1: 1.03 rating - Kurt Angle vs. A.J. Styles

Q2: 1.05 rating - Angelina Love vs. Madison Rayne, Mr. Anderson entrance and promo

Q3: 1.06 rating - Matt Morgan vs. Mr. Anderson vs. D'Angelo Dinero, Jeff Hardy and Shannon Moore introductions

Q4: 1.07 rating - Hardy vs. Moore, Motor City Machine Guns vs. Beer Money

Q5: 1.22 rating - Bulk of the MCMG vs. Beer Money match,

Q6: 1.17 rating - Conclusion of MCMG vs. Beer Money, main event ring introductions, RVD vs. Abyss

Q7: 1.33 rating - Continuation of RVD vs. Abyss, announcers talk and hype TNA Reaction

Q8: 1.29 rating - Hulk Hogan in the ring with Rob Van Dam, introduces EV2.0, Fortune, Matt Morgan, and Douglas Williams beatdown on EV2.0 faction.

Powell's POV: I'm estimating on what took place in the third quarter hour simply because I forgot to note exactly where it was in my live coverage report. The second hour of the show was on pace with what TNA Impact has been drawing lately, but the first hour brought the overall rating down to a 1.15.

credit pro wrestling dot net.

Hmm seems there was a big jump in the second hour. Either the guns vs money was an excellent draw or there where some highly watched shows that just finished or both. Wasn't there a highest rated Jersey Shore ever and American Football on? Too bad about the first hour. Still can't say much going on quarters as you need minute by minutes but I do like the seemingly growth almost throughout the whole show.

Edit smart placement of the guns vs money match too as Q5 is zapping time.

[sheepy]

Just imagine if you'd had all that going on and the tag title match gets put in the main event spot.

That instantly says you have some of the top talent in the last 20 years, you have a title match featuring two guys in the top storyline but you're gonna let 4 relatively unknowns main event and steal the spotlight from all these other guys.

If you spend the entire show hyping this match making everything a sideshow to this main event then you instantly solidify those 4 guys as bonafide main eventers and set yourself out as having the best tag division in wrestling (not necessarily true but you can use that to market themselves).

I didn't mind the brawl and RVD being injured however I don't really see who it gets over or what angle it's going to lead to that will deliver a payoff.

Having MCMG vs. Beer Money being the top match and then the entire locker room coming out to applaud that effort would have had a far more lasting impact than the ending to impact we got.

[Moe Hunter]

The Tag match (as well as Angle vs AJ and even to some extent the Triple Threat) really made things seem important. Tag belts are something to FIGHT for. It's not just thrown together, cookie-cutter "hot tag" BS like WWE. I don't know what TNA's "rules" are on illegal guys staying in the ring forever, but it does allow for some amazing action.

The rankings are made to seem like they matter. Angle working his way up, them mentioning who's what rank while they're out there. Seriously, how long have we heard abot "#1 Contender"s with there being no meaning other than "he's the guy we've decided gets a shot"? Now there's rhyme and reason to it. The Mystery GM can say "Orton goes to the back of the line", but it doesn't mean anything. How many guys is he behind? How does he progress? In TNA we can see how it all works.

Really not a fan of this EV2 crap. RVD vs Abyss was exactly what I expected of it, which is to say I enjoyed it less than every other match besides the KOs. Hogan needs to GTFO of the ring, he adds nothing. Really, what does he have to do with EV2? Why should we care that he's out there?

Give the spotlight to those who can shine in it!

[Johnny Fenoli]

Paul Heyman appeared on The MMA Hour on MMAFighting.com on Monday and commented to host Ariel Helwani on his TNA negotiations. "They're not ready for me," Heyman said. "They're not there yet." Heyman also stated that TNA wrestlers who were over 40 years old would not be happy if he went to work for the company. "If you're over 40, I'd chop your f---ing head off," said Heyman.


So... Paul would get rid of Kurt Angle? The other's over 40 are Jarrett, Nash and Sting. Those three dont even appear on a regular basis.

[Astil]

The rankings are made to seem like they matter. Angle working his way up, them mentioning who's what rank while they're out there. Seriously, how long have we heard abot "#1 Contender"s with there being no meaning other than "he's the guy we've decided gets a shot"? Now there's rhyme and reason to it. The Mystery GM can say "Orton goes to the back of the line", but it doesn't mean anything. How many guys is he behind? How does he progress? In TNA we can see how it all works.


Yes, like Hernendez jumping over Angle because he ... um ...

It's stuff like this that makes TNA, with my favorite two wrestlers of all time and a few more of my favorite active wrestlers, unwatchable.

I want to love you TNA. I want to so bad. Stop with the gimmicks. Stop with the catering to the nostalgia fans. Stop being the past of wrestling, start being the future.

Of course I've been pleadng to my TV for almost 3 years now. TNA never gets better.

[jwt13]

Yes, like Hernendez jumping over Angle because he ... um ...

It's stuff like this that makes TNA, with my favorite two wrestlers of all time and a few more of my favorite active wrestlers, unwatchable.

I want to love you TNA. I want to so bad. Stop with the gimmicks. Stop with the catering to the nostalgia fans. Stop being the past of wrestling, start being the future.

Of course I've been pleadng to my TV for almost 3 years now. TNA never gets better.

Not true, its as entertaining as ever right now, as for gimmicks what are you talking about matches or charcter gimmicks? The matches have been good with little gimmick besides the Beer Money/MCMG classic series and the EV2 guys. The worker gimmicks are good and improving. Storylines are intriging and fun plus its working it momentum back up from the monday **** they were pulling off. And I presonaly dont know why people make a big deal about Wolfpac being in TNA when WWE is having Taker/Kane Feud for they 100th time.

[Astil]

Not true, its as entertaining as ever right now, as for gimmicks what are you talking about matches or charcter gimmicks? The matches have been good with little gimmick besides the Beer Money/MCMG classic series and the EV2 guys. The worker gimmicks are good and improving. Storylines are intriging and fun plus its working it momentum back up from the monday **** they were pulling off. And I presonaly dont know why people make a big deal about Wolfpac being in TNA when WWE is having Taker/Kane Feud for they 100th time.

You are advertising a PPV with Hardcore matches. So on free TV you give away:

Ultimate X Match
Street Fight
Steel Cage Match
Hardcore Match

You have:

Orlando Jordan. Insultingly dumb Gimmick.
Eric Young. Insultingly dumb Gimmick.
Biker Chick. Awkward costume and lame gimmick.
Dixie Carter. Why is she on TV now?
Rob Terry. Genetic freak who gets squashed by AJ in 3 minutes.
This whole... EV 2.0 garbage. It's ... sadly reminding me of "The Wrestler". Like they just can't walk away.

Those top two (Jordan & Young) are the reason I can't proudly admit I am a wrestling fan.

It's not just Wolfpac being there but them talking about the past in almost a code. Hogan telling Nash to let young guys go, Nash laughing at Hogan. Casual fan, no idea about WCW, how are they supposed to enjoy that? How are they even supposed to understand that?

Why does every critique of TNA have to be countered into an attack on WWE? Little brother syndrom. Yes, the Kane - Taker thing is redone. How does that make the Sting - Nash - Hogan - Jarrett thing suck less? Does that make Jarrett look like he missed his cue any less? Doe it erase the seemingly minutes of Nash standing ready to jacknife Hogan literally waiting for someone to make the save.

WWE has a bunch wrong with it. Matt Hardy's gut. Wasting CM Punk by having Show snuff him out. Pushing McIntyre while both Kofi and Dolph are stuck at IC. Hot shotting titles. Lack of a Gail Kim title run. In fact the whole Woman's division. And most of Smackdown.

Sadly all of WWE's flaws does not make TNA a better show.

[Astil]

Let me just say I want badly to enjoy TNA and try to watch weekly on the chance that magic will spark and they'll do good. I want them to do good.

[jwt13]

I guess we have different tastes:) but i understand you points but I like EY more in a comedy gimmick than being thrown into the bands business. And OJ gets limited TV time Rob is getting limited time too.

[Astil]

I guess we have different tastes:) but i understand you points but I like EY more in a comedy gimmick than being thrown into the bands business. And OJ gets limited TV time Rob is getting limited time too.

He was sadly on two weeks in a row when I watched. EY's gimmick is embarrassing. Kinda like Eugene was embarassing.

Of course the company has Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, Mr. Anderson, Samoa Joe, AJ Motha' F'n Styles, D'Angelo Dinero and oh yeah, RVD.

The roster alone will keep me watching.

[jwt13]

He was sadly on two weeks in a row when I watched. EY's gimmick is embarrassing. Kinda like Eugene was embarassing.

Of course the company has Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, Mr. Anderson, Samoa Joe, AJ Motha' F'n Styles, D'Angelo Dinero and oh yeah, RVD.

The roster alone will keep me watching.

I just wish they would start useing the Wolf/Magnus Team on Impact because I dont get Explosion

[SeanMcFly]

Not true, its as entertaining as ever right now, as for gimmicks what are you talking about matches or charcter gimmicks? The matches have been good with little gimmick besides the Beer Money/MCMG classic series and the EV2 guys. The worker gimmicks are good and improving. Storylines are intriging and fun plus its working it momentum back up from the monday **** they were pulling off. And I presonaly dont know why people make a big deal about Wolfpac being in TNA when WWE is having Taker/Kane Feud for they 100th time.

To quote the Miz... 'Wah Wah Wah' :p

In all honesty, I watched TNA on Thursday, and Checked out TNA Reaction afterward. In my opinion, the stories aren't very entertaining to me personally. Really, It seems that I'm linking everything that TNA does to something I hate about the WWE.

For example:

I'm sick of Undertaker/Kane feuds, yet I'm also sick of Abyss. I just simply hate the character, same way that I think Undertaker needs to retire soon, he's just gotten old for me.

The same way I'm sick of TNA bringing in 'WWE' Rejects, despite the fact that they almost need to for the star power. Kennedy, Kendrick, RVD, Hardy... blah blah blah. I'd rather see them in the WWE where I can actually stand to watch them. In TNA, I can't stand watching them, not one bit. Same way I can barely stand to watch Flair on TNA.

EV2.0 was entertaining for me for about 30 seconds, and then I flipped the channel. I don't like the fact that they practically took One Night Stand and made their own version of it. I did enjoy One Night Stand the first time, and it was good the second, but I just couldn't watch it in TNA. I checked out the video online and didn't enjoy it.

I'm still enjoying Wolfe, but only because he's teaming up with Magnus, who for some reason I really enjoy seeing in the ring, just because of his look I think. But after leaving him out from Fourtune, nuh uh, no thanks.

Just about 2 years ago, Suicide was this next big thing character in TNA... (or at least that's how I perceived it). Now, 2 years later, I don't even know what's going on with him, except that Kaz has been replaced with Akira Raijin, and I don't mind that one bit, because I love Akira. But this seemingly 'Scary' guy, is now stuck in the Midcard. I don't watch Xplosion though, so if I'm incorrect somebody please correct me.

They've got all these great guys on the roster, and the stuff is laughable, and verging on impossible for me to watch.

[Hyde Hill]

Why can't you watch them in TNA? Especially Anderson as he is better then ever in the E imho. Yes lately with the EV2.0 stuff that can be a real turn off for some but before all that they where doing very well.

[sheepy]

The same way I'm sick of TNA bringing in 'WWE' Rejects, despite the fact that they almost need to for the star power. Kennedy, Kendrick, RVD, Hardy... blah blah blah. I'd rather see them in the WWE where I can actually stand to watch them. In TNA, I can't stand watching them, not one bit. Same way I can barely stand to watch Flair on TNA.


I don't see the problem with bringing the likes of Kennedy, Kendrick, Burke etc. These are guys who had a hell of a lot of talent but it just never clicked for whatever reason. I remember watching Burke in ECW and thinking this guy could be huge and then they just lost interest in him. Now I get to see him on regularly, getting made into a big deal.

Kennedy was on the wrestling scrap heap but TNA picked him up and made him something more. He came in as a midcarder, was given the opportunity to shine and because the fans got behind him he's now a main eventer. His match against Angle (which I didn't get to see unfortunately) is possibly a MOTY candidate. Kennedy in WWE would never have got that opportunity.

Personally one of the reasons I like TNA is they will give guys who didn't get a fair run in the WWE a chance to really develop and reinvent themselves.

That said, the RVD's and Hardys are a bit meh. I don't see that they've added anything and wouldn't miss them (which is weird because I'm a Hardy mark but he just doesn't seem to have "it" in TNA).

[Hyde Hill]

Because from my standpoint Hardy in TNA is more really Jeff Hardy while with the E it was all the image that they made him into. Plus he stood out more from an in ring standpoint in the E possibly.

Also guys like RVD and Hardy are not WWE rejects WWE wanted Hardy to resign badly and always wanted RVD back, they chose TNA. Just to make that clear for others as I did see the ' '.

[Stennick]

Realy the biggest complaints I have right now are EV 2.0 which I'm interested in for a negative amount.

And the fact that Demond Wolfe has less than a zero push right now.

However since EV 2.0 is taking up a bit part of the show, and there were several weeks I watched just to see what Desmond was doing. I haven't watched since right before Hard Justice and I think I'm going to continue not watching until they get this EV 2.0 crap out of their blood. If its your basic TNA storyline I got an over under of 8 weeks.

Are they still doing Hardy/Kennedy as friendemies?

Has the Pope got his own storyline for feud going on?

Have they forgotten about Abyss/Hogan and therefore "they".?

Did Sting ever explain what was black is white and what was white was black? Or has he just resorted to teaming with Nash, making vague references and beating up Hogan?

Did they ever pay off Joe vs. Morgan? Since you know Joe made his return during Matt Morgan's title defense, cost him the championship, etc.

Best I've been able to tell they have dropped all of these storylines and lost focus on The Pope aside from random three way dances with Morgan and Kennedy. Again I haven't watched in about three weeks so maybe I'm wrong afterall Eric has assured me all this stuff going on right now was planned out six months ago, I'm sure he's talking about the abrput ending to interesting angles so that 40 year old men from a hardcore promotion can feud with Fortune. I guess Fortune vs. MCMG, Lethal, Kennedy, etc. wasn't an interesting enough storyline.

There is nothing EV 2.0 is accomplishing with Fortune that feuding them with your actual roster couldn't. Also somebody tell me why Dixie is on T.V now days? There are times she makes Linda McMahon look like Meryl Streep.

[MasterJ]

Realy the biggest complaints I have right now are EV 2.0 which I'm interested in for a negative amount.

And the fact that Demond Wolfe has less than a zero push right now.

However since EV 2.0 is taking up a bit part of the show, and there were several weeks I watched just to see what Desmond was doing. I haven't watched since right before Hard Justice and I think I'm going to continue not watching until they get this EV 2.0 crap out of their blood. If its your basic TNA storyline I got an over under of 8 weeks.

Are they still doing Hardy/Kennedy as friendemies?

Has the Pope got his own storyline for feud going on?

Have they forgotten about Abyss/Hogan and therefore "they".?

Did Sting ever explain what was black is white and what was white was black? Or has he just resorted to teaming with Nash, making vague references and beating up Hogan?

Did they ever pay off Joe vs. Morgan? Since you know Joe made his return during Matt Morgan's title defense, cost him the championship, etc.

Best I've been able to tell they have dropped all of these storylines and lost focus on The Pope aside from random three way dances with Morgan and Kennedy. Again I haven't watched in about three weeks so maybe I'm wrong afterall Eric has assured me all this stuff going on right now was planned out six months ago, I'm sure he's talking about the abrput ending to interesting angles so that 40 year old men from a hardcore promotion can feud with Fortune. I guess Fortune vs. MCMG, Lethal, Kennedy, etc. wasn't an interesting enough storyline.

There is nothing EV 2.0 is accomplishing with Fortune that feuding them with your actual roster couldn't. Also somebody tell me why Dixie is on T.V now days? There are times she makes Linda McMahon look like Meryl Streep.

1. No
2. He's been feuding with Morgan and Anderson
3. Nope still going strong he said they were the reason he attacked RVD with Janice
4. He's only been back for one week and did an attack on Hogan so not yet.
5. No, Hardy/Joe were feuding until Joe got him self suspended

[Stennick]

I thought Morgan was Ric's body guard in Fortune and was feuding with ECW 2.0? What are Kennedy, Morgan and Pope feuding about? A title shot? Has the feuding involved any promo time for The Pope or is more or less combinations of the three of them wrestling while Morgan hangs around Flair in the ring or maybe backstage and Kennedy gets to do his thing on the mic?

Either way thats more than I thought they had going on so kudos to them. Although it does bother me they made Morgan drop something that was getting him over and they obviously put effort into just to shock us into a Joe return.

[MasterJ]

I thought Morgan was Ric's body guard in Fortune and was feuding with ECW 2.0? What are Kennedy, Morgan and Pope feuding about? A title shot? Has the feuding involved any promo time for The Pope or is more or less combinations of the three of them wrestling while Morgan hangs around Flair in the ring or maybe backstage and Kennedy gets to do his thing on the mic?

Either way thats more than I thought they had going on so kudos to them. Although it does bother me they made Morgan drop something that was getting him over and they obviously put effort into just to shock us into a Joe return.

It has gotten Pope some mic time and the feud ended at the whole F'n show they were doing a thing with Pope/Anderson like they were doing with Hardy/Anderson except Pope hasn't trusted him yet. Morgan has attacked both guys other the last few week which has got him inserted into the feud it looks like Pope/Anderson will continue the feud now though

[sebsplex]

The same way I'm sick of TNA bringing in 'WWE' Rejects, despite the fact that they almost need to for the star power. Kennedy, Kendrick, RVD, Hardy... blah blah blah. I'd rather see them in the WWE where I can actually stand to watch them. In TNA, I can't stand watching them, not one bit. Same way I can barely stand to watch Flair on TNA.

This makes me curious. RVD has been working the same matches and playing the same 'character' from the first ECW show I caught to last week on IMPACT... how exactly is he unwatchable in TNA? The others I could possibly understand, but RVD?

TNA certainly have a rather chequered history signing WWE cast-offs, but the fact that the likes of Elijah Burke and Matt Morgan are amongst their rejects says more about the WWE's ineptitude in using them than anything else.

I thought Morgan was Ric's body guard in Fortune and was feuding with ECW 2.0? What are Kennedy, Morgan and Pope feuding about? A title shot? Has the feuding involved any promo time for The Pope or is more or less combinations of the three of them wrestling while Morgan hangs around Flair in the ring or maybe backstage and Kennedy gets to do his thing on the mic?

Either way thats more than I thought they had going on so kudos to them. Although it does bother me they made Morgan drop something that was getting him over and they obviously put effort into just to shock us into a Joe return.

Morgan flirted with the idea of being a part of Fortune when Flair was 'scouting', but I don't believe he'd previously been 'officially' revealed as being a part of the group. Not too sure why Morgan's previous bit was dropped, although I seem to remember than he and Anderson started feuding after crossing over storylines and one cost the other a match against a previous feud target/partner (my mind is blank at the moment). I miss the whole 'we' bit though as well as trying to kill his stand-in tag team partners. :(

The Wolfpac ressurrection itself doesn't bother me, but the vague and meandering nature of the 'why Sting why?' storyline is grating on me. I like slow build storylines, but from the moment Sting turned like most people I assumed his motivation was pretty obvious. He doesn't trust Hogan or Bischoff and doesn't want to see them leech off a growing company and take TNA in the same direction as WCW... although that motive should realistically make him a face in the TNA fans eyes. But instead of really moving on, it's been stop-start and is slowly becoming more convoluted with Nash and Jarrett thrown in.

[Self]

This makes me curious. RVD has been working the same matches and playing the same 'character' from the first ECW show I caught to last week on IMPACT... how exactly is he unwatchable in TNA? The others I could possibly understand, but RVD?

TNA have a rather chequered history signing WWE cast-offs, but the fact that the likes of Elijah Burke and Matt Morgan are amongst their rejects says more about the WWE's ineptitude in using them than anything else.

Rob Van Dam is still the same character, but he hasn't done all that much meaningful thus far. Sure, TNA Champion. Sure, EV2.0. There's been a lack of worthy feuds for him, and a lack of focus.

Jeff Hardy is a better example. Jeff is a great guy to have on the roster. Big star. Lots of merchandising potential. Great name for international markets. It's just... he hasn't done anything on the show of note, besides a few arbitrary matches. No meaningful feuds. No big PPV matches. He's just a guy on the roster. I haven't seen him do anything Matt couldn't do. Or Shelton Benjamin. Whereas in WWE, towards the end, Jeff was the top guy on Smackdown. The entire show was built around him and CM Punk for months, in a major feud about a real conflict between two distinct characters. Jeff's not a promo guy, but he's an interesting cat. Where's his big feud?

I don't even count The Pope as a WWE guy any more. He's reinvented himself so brilliantly in TNA that I consider him one of theirs. Turning him babyface was masterful. They haven't been striking while the iron was hot on him, but he's a keeper.

[Hyde Hill]

Well RVD has feuded with AJ then Sting and now Abyss. Yes they where all short and fast feud's apart from Abyss but that is generally TNA's style with the faster feuds. Jeff Hardy not doing anything really meaningful, apart from the Anderson stuff, is probably mostly because of his looming court dates which have been moved each time.

[Stennick]

Yeah I almost wouldn't even call AJ a feud, they had two matches in three weeks was it? And that was it best I recall.

Sting had about a month of build up and then that was over.

RVD hasn't had that defining feud as champion and Abyss isn't going to be that either. Problem is heel wise who is left out there after Abyss? I'm drawing a blank on big time heels for RVD to feud with. Some of their bigger heels he's already dispensed of (AJ, Sting, Abyss) and others have turned face (Anderson, Pope).

Honestly RVD's not my guy. The guy has limited promo skills at best, his in ring action doesn't wow me the way A.J Styles and others do. RVD was innovative 15 years ago but now days he just kinda does the same moves over and over again. I'm not exactly sure what his appeal is over say an AJ Styles or Christopher Daniels or anyone else that can be just as if not more creative in the ring. For my money A.J's better on the mic than RVD.

RVD works great in a certain role but I'm not sure that role is ever face of a sports entertainment company. I don't think I've ever seen Rob Van Dam give a single epic promo. Rob Van Dam has never done anything other than moves and talking about mary jane that made me say "that is Rob Van Dam's character in a nutshell".

I like Rob but if I was head of a promotion Rob would be in constant contendership and maybe short reigns as champion but he's not the guy I'm going to pick as my "franchise".

[TheEffect]

RVD hasn't had that defining feud as champion and Abyss isn't going to be that either. Problem is heel wise who is left out there after Abyss? I'm drawing a blank on big time heels for RVD to feud with. Some of their bigger heels he's already dispensed of (AJ, Sting, Abyss) and others have turned face (Anderson, Pope).

Honestly RVD's not my guy. The guy has limited promo skills at best, his in ring action doesn't wow me the way A.J Styles and others do. RVD was innovative 15 years ago but now days he just kinda does the same moves over and over again. I'm not exactly sure what his appeal is over say an AJ Styles or Christopher Daniels or anyone else that can be just as if not more creative in the ring. For my money A.J's better on the mic than RVD.

RVD works great in a certain role but I'm not sure that role is ever face of a sports entertainment company. I don't think I've ever seen Rob Van Dam give a single epic promo. Rob Van Dam has never done anything other than moves and talking about mary jane that made me say "that is Rob Van Dam's character in a nutshell".

I like Rob but if I was head of a promotion Rob would be in constant contendership and maybe short reigns as champion but he's not the guy I'm going to pick as my "franchise".

DUDE I whole heartedly agree about the RVD stuff.

[PeterHilton]

IMO RVD was at his utmost bets in ECW as an arrogant, ****y, somewhat flippant heel with Fonzie as his manager.

The problem back then was that the fans wouldn't keep RVD heel because they wanted to cheer for his offense.

And now..because of the nostalgia pop and because he has years in the E as a face...TNA fans have a pavlovian response to him where they cheer automatically.

Honestly, if it's at all possible, they should turn RVD heel ..he could have a manager to work his promoos, he could play the "i'm too big for TNA" card, he could claim that all the X division guys are stealing the style he created in ECW..etc

He'd be more entertaining, he'd have more guys to work with (Hardy, Anderson, Pope) and if they can run Sting as a heel I don't see how this could be any more difficult.

[Stennick]

I agree with everything you guys said. People popped for him in ECW due to his at the time innovative offense. The E kept him as a face for virtually his entire run didn't they? If they have turned Sting heel for the second time now, if they can turn Kurt Angle and Joe heel then I see no reason why they can't turn RVD. Give him a manager (I have no idea who) and do exactly that. I'm way too big for TNA.

Honestly the thought of him feuding with Anderson, Pope, Hardy, etc excites me way more than what he has been doing.

[Self]

They turned Sting and Joe, sure, but those turned failed, didn't they?

I'm not a huge fan of the idea. Basically I think if you've got a guy with a genuine connection to the fans in spite of booking (RVD didn't get over in WWE because he was meant to, he just did) you shouldn't try to turn him. It's making more work for yourself. You might as well choose the path of least resistance. and just let the fans like him. RVD. Sting. AJ. Jeff Hardy. Ric Flair. These are men who are beloved. In my book, they should only be turned if it's going to be a MASSIVE deal.

... but I can see it working with RVD now more than ever before. RVD used to be cool. Now, not so much. His moves aren't as unique as they used to be. His laconic attitude isn't as refreshing. Maybe it could work. I just get the feeling that if he starts being more arrogant, the crowd are just going to cheer him. People are attracted to confidence. It's human nature.

A Jericho-like character reinvention aside, it's an uphill struggle.

[Hyde Hill]

Sting turn is too early to say it failed. The deception stuff was nice and the leadup to slammiversary. Only just back now. I would keep him face for now. As for opponets well most he has done he has only faced once or twice and for the rest you can turn guys like Anderson, Pope, Joe, Hernandez, Lethal, Angle. Or build up Kaz, Morgan, Wolfe. I think I would prefer a darker heel Hardy to heel RVD. Not saying it is not an option but RVD while not as innovative as before is still over pavlovian or not.

PS Am I the only one that wants face Jericho back?

[Self]

The Nash/Jarrett stuff is the only thing on Impact I always skip. No interest in anything to do with 'the bigger picture' of TNA. So Sting's current disposition is news to me.

This is me contradicting myself, but I'd be interested to see what Jeff Hardy could be as a heel. He's a wacky dude. Got a few screws loose. On a purely selfish level, as a heel-mark and a Hardy-mark, I'd love to see dark, evil, psychotically emotional Jeff.

I also wouldn't mind babyface Jericho. Same gimmick as he's doing now, tweaked slightly to battle villains. That would amuse me. He's getting pops as it is.

[PeterHilton]

They turned Sting and Joe, sure, but those turned failed, didn't they?

Joe's been a heel a couple of times and sometimes it's worked, sometimes it hasn't.

Sting...who frickin knows? His storyline has been so convoluted and badly written that it's hard to say whether or not it's worked or if it's just that the story sucks or that maybe fans are just sort of over it with Sting.

I'm not a huge fan of the idea. Basically I think if you've got a guy with a genuine connection to the fans in spite of booking (RVD didn't get over in WWE because he was meant to, he just did) you shouldn't try to turn him. It's making more work for yourself. You might as well choose the path of least resistance. and just let the fans like him. RVD. Sting. AJ. Jeff Hardy. Ric Flair. These are men who are beloved. In my book, they should only be turned if it's going to be a MASSIVE deal.


weird to see you say that because normally you're a fan of obtuse, sublte writing. :p

... but I can see it working with RVD now more than ever before. RVD used to be cool. Now, not so much. His moves aren't as unique as they used to be. His laconic attitude isn't as refreshing. Maybe it could work. I just get the feeling that if he starts being more arrogant, the crowd are just going to cheer him. People are attracted to confidence. It's human nature.


With TNA, there's a segment of that audience that's going to cheer the people they aren't "supposed to" just to show how smart they are, no matter what they do.

Based on recent storylines, the easiest way to turn RVD would be for him to betray the ECW guys.

[Jaysin]

JWith TNA, there's a segment of that audience that's going to cheer the people they aren't "supposed to" just to show how smart they are, no matter what they do.

That's been happening since the 90's. It didn't start in TNA, and it's not going to stop in TNA.

[Stennick]

But its more apparent in TNA's base because of the nature in which they've grown combined with their current atmosphere situation combined with smaller audiences it comes across on television a lot louder than it would in a more unbiased atmosphere.

[Stennick]

Apparent Spoiler I thought it was common knowledge but I guess not

So RVD is taking time off not because he wants to but because TNA has ran through most of his contracted dates for the year or enough of them that they have to slow down.

I think its silly they didn't just have RVD lose the title in the ring on an episode of iMpact or at a pay per view. Vacating the championship does nobody any good.

[MasterJ]

Wouldnt this be a spoiler?

[Stennick]

I thought everybody knew that, I apologize if its a spoiler. I'll edit my posting.

[MasterJ]

I thought everybody knew that, I apologize if its a spoiler. I'll edit my posting.

Its ok I knew it but I dont think everyone else did I saw it in the Spoilers for this weeks show and EB annouced it so I thought thats the first it was heard could be wrong though

[Stennick]

Either way thanks for the heads up, I'm not really following the show much these days I just thought it was an interesting point.

[SeanMcFly]

This makes me curious. RVD has been working the same matches and playing the same 'character' from the first ECW show I caught to last week on IMPACT... how exactly is he unwatchable in TNA? The others I could possibly understand, but RVD?

TNA certainly have a rather chequered history signing WWE cast-offs, but the fact that the likes of Elijah Burke and Matt Morgan are amongst their rejects says more about the WWE's ineptitude in using them than anything else.


It's really just a matter of personal preference for me. I'm just not interested in Abyss, because he seems to me like an over-exaggerated, for lack of a better term, version of Kane.

I really don't know why I can't stand watching RVD and Hardy, and Anderson in TNA. Same with Burke. It's just a matter of personal preference I think, maybe because I've been watching the WWE, and as bad as the WWE is right now, TNA just doesn't 'Do it' for me.

[juggaloninjalee]

Seems to me that no matter what people will always think the current product isn't any good. Even when WWE had HHH, Rock, Angle, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Undertaker, and Kane to name a few... people were unhappy.

Has becoming smart about wrestling ruined our perceptions? I say yes. If you can watch wrestling as it is and not worry about who sells better or who is a better worker so on and so forth wrestling may be more enjoyable.

I think RVD is great! Never liked Jeff Hardy. I like Mr. Anderson a lot though. Samoa Joe needs to get used more, and AJ Styles could be the #1 guy in TNA if used more effectively.

[cappyboy]

Seems to me that no matter what people will always think the current product isn't any good. Even when WWE had HHH, Rock, Angle, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Undertaker, and Kane to name a few... people were unhappy.

Indeed. Folks don't always know what they have until it's gone. As an NFL fan going growing up, I never really appreciated Walter Payton. Dude was one of the best running backs to play the game. But it always used to annoy me how much ink he got and how announcers would speak of him that way. Growing up a Landry era Cowboys fan, I was more of a Tony Dorsett guy and wished Payton would just go away. When he was setting up to take the career rushing title, I remember wishing defenses would just snap Payton like a twig to keep him from getting it. It was only after he retired and footage would be shown of him and his broad skill set that I grew to understand how great Payton really was. In your WWE example, I would imagine there was a reticence to accept how good it really was for fear of being overly impressed by the hype. Sometimes it takes the distance of time to see the whole picture.

Has becoming smart about wrestling ruined our perceptions? I say yes. If you can watch wrestling as it is and not worry about who sells better or who is a better worker so on and so forth wrestling may be more enjoyable.

I would say there's no question of it. Look at the guys I harp about on here or have admitted to harping on before I arrived here. There's usually a common thread of being forced to think "smart" when I want to unlpug and be caught in the illusion.

Like what's my big beef with Anderson for example? It's that I don't get any sense of him in his performances. That every move, every mannerism, every word feels borrowed from other acts that previously over. The fact he's been influenced by The Rock and Road Dogg and other such talents is too obvious to me. As a result, it pulls me out of the illusion the show's trying to create and keeps me from enjoying things the way they are being presented.

Look at the old ECW guys. In just about every prominent case it took them being separated from ECW for years for me to embrace them. I've talked about how I always used to hate classic Tommy Dreamer because he seemed no better than the Raven he was fighting against. And how it took his grizzled vet role in WWECW to finally embrace him. How I could argue points along the road but not the destination he'd arrived at once he adopted that gimmick. Or Team 3D and how with Bubba in particular it took him getting out from under the prism of the Dudley Boys for me to really take to his work. How it was the juxtaposition of the agile mind and the hot head he has now in TNA that really let me appreciate just how good he really is. As the Dudleys, he and D-von had done things that made me have to remind myself I was watching a show. In TNA, they've felt much more natural and easier to flaot along with.

When I watch wrestling, I want the illusion that what I'm seeing is real. If I'm able to break down the whys and wherefores of the illusion after it's over, fine. I can live with that. But in the moment, I want to believe it or at least pretend I believe it. It makes what I'm seeing more dramatic and more entertianing that way.

That was my beef with The Whole F'n Show version of Impact the other night. I dash off of here a couple minutes late to try and catch it and as I turn it on, Angle and AJ are already trying to kill each other. It didn't feel like "Oh man, what an awesome show this is going to be." It felt more like "GAH!! Did I miss a time change because I've been slacking off with watching TNA lately? Did I somehow miss the first hour already?" I tried watching through the the Knockouts match before I shut it off and gave up. That show felt far too frenetic for my liking and the illusion I'd missed a sizable chunk of it didn't help matters. The fact it felt like I was late to the party led me to burn out quickly. Whereas if they'd paced it more like a normal show and still thrown the big PPV style matches at us, I'd likely have watched the whole thing.


I think RVD is great! Never liked Jeff Hardy. I like Mr. Anderson a lot though. Samoa Joe needs to get used more, and AJ Styles could be the #1 guy in TNA if used more effectively.

Don't know I can go that far on RVD. I'm a much bigger fan of him than I used to be since he abandoned the ECW style pacing. But at times his persona feels a little too laid-back. I believe in him as a character and I like watching him wrestle. But world champion? REALLY?! He doesn't seem to have the fire in his belly a world champion should. He seems like he should be playing the guy who could be world champion. Maybe even OUGHT to be world champion. But who was more interested in just holding the tag belts with someone.

Agree with you on Hardy. I've always liked his brother better. I relate more to Matt in a positive way than Jeff. I get why people love Jeff but I never have liked that type. I watch Jeff and I feel more like Jennifer Grey in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. I want to see Jeff's lovably flighty charisma suddenly fail him. I want to see him have to face the same music the rest of us do. If Jeff Hardy's a face, that makes me heel when he's on my screen. And I'm good with that.

Totally disagree on Joe. Not only does Joe NOT need to be used more, he needs to not even be there to be used. Not that I think Joe's bad or untalented or anything. It's just for whatever reason TNA Management has this unnatural aversion to him. He's had all these opportunities to get wildly over and he's either failed to take advantage of them or been cut off at the knees. He's the very definition in my mind of a guy who needs greener pastures. Send him to Japan. Send him to Mexico. Send him to WWE. It doesn't really matter. The important thing is he's had all these identities in TNA and he's never been allowed to hold onto one of them. He needs to be someplace where he can develop an identity and hold onto it for a while.

Styles you have nailed. He's their Sting. He's their Dusty Rhodes. He's the up from the bootstraps guy that has grown and blossomed before the TNA audience's eyes. I know a lot of folks feel this heel run and association feels forced. But in the larger terms of his growing before our eyes career arc, I like it. It gives him a taste of what it is to be a top level heel so he can relate better to how they treat him when he ultimately turns face again.

[PeterHilton]

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/149618/Eric-Bischoff-Attacks-WWE-Youth-Movement.htm

Eric Bischoff Attacks WWE Youth Movement
Posted by Larry Csonka on 08.18.2010

Says facts hurt…

- Eric Bischoff posted the following blog entry on his website…

FACTS HURT!

On the heels of the big "youth push" in WWE during the past several weeks, here are some facts from this week in the business:

"Raw's demographic ratings among males 18-34 and 18-49 were the lowest in seven weeks."

"Raw scored a 1.86 rating among males 18-34, which was down from a 2.03 rating last week."

And during this months conference call to investors Vince McMahon admitted that:

"Basically, we had a lousy quarter," and then when on to pin the loss of Shawn Michaels, Batista, Triple H, and Undertaker (all 40 + years old) as the reason for the hit to PPV and live event revenue.

Now one could suggest that McMahon is insane enough to be intentionally misleading Wall Street with excuses that are not substantiated by financials that wouldn't hold up under either SEC or Sarbanes Oxley Act 404 scrutiny, or maybe that he has no idea what he's talking about despite the massive success of his business model.

Or one could recognize the direct connect between what TV ratings, PPV buy rates, and ticket sales have proven time and time again, as well as what legitimate focus groups conducted by credible media companies in the business of such have clearly identified: the TV audience (including 18-34 males) rate with ESTABLISHED (and yes older) stars!

Admittedly, these facts are kind of dry compared to the subjective opinion of those with their own agenda or the inflamed rhetoric that appeals to those perpetually pre-pubescent, parasitic internet "experts" who neither have any legitimate experience or success as executives in the television or wrestling industry, and the rants of the terminally irrelevant trying desperately to hold on to their last 200 fans.

But they are facts non-the-less.

In my opinion Vince Russo, Dixie Carter and the team at TNA have done a great job of utilizing veteran stars to help elevate some of the young emerging talent in TNA and at the same time gaining awareness and credibility within the media industry.

That's just my opinion. And my opinion is backed up by facts.

OUCH!

Sorry.

Interesting post by Eric..the be-all end-all of running a successful wreslting company..:rolleyes:

[Stennick]

The WWE just had how many guys under 35 in the main event of their last ppv?

All seven Nexus guys, Cena, Bryan, Morrison, etc.

TNA had 40+ ECW guys scattered all over theirs.

Not too mention Kurt Angle, Nash, Foley, Jarrett, Hogan, etc.

[MasterJ]

The WWE just had how many guys under 35 in the main event of their last ppv?

All seven Nexus guys, Cena, Bryan, Morrison, etc.

TNA had 40+ ECW guys scattered all over theirs.

Not too mention Kurt Angle, Nash, Foley, Jarrett, Hogan, etc.

Like I just posted in the E thread though how many of the NEXUS is drawing? If it was Wade Barrett V. Bryan Danielson in the Main Event would it draw and the answer is no. The people who watched SS were more intrested in WWE's superteam than NXTUS and having them lose dont help them at all

[PeterHilton]

The WWE just had how many guys under 35 in the main event of their last ppv?

All seven Nexus guys, Cena, Bryan, Morrison, etc.

TNA had 40+ ECW guys scattered all over theirs.

Not too mention Kurt Angle, Nash, Foley, Jarrett, Hogan, etc.

I think Eric is actually saying that the WWE is pushing too many young guys

Like I just posted in the E thread though how many of the NEXUS is drawing? If it was Wade Barrett V. Bryan Danielson in the Main Event would it draw and the answer is no. The people who watched SS were more intrested in WWE's superteam than NXTUS and having them lose dont help them at all

Long term growth vs short term gain.

Also...i guarantee i could go through Dixie comments ove rthe last year and find 10 examples of where she's contradicting Eric here.

[CQI13]

Yet everyone says Dixie has no business running a company, etc. I agree a balance must exist between established stars and new talent. But the audience is more interested in established stars by and large.

[PeterHilton]

Yet everyone says Dixie has no business running a company, etc. I agree a balance must exist between established stars and new talent. But the audience is more interested in established stars by and large.

Are they? Because TNA have added established name after established name and they're ratings have done basically nothing.

[MasterJ]

Are they? Because TNA have added established name after established name and they're ratings have done basically nothing.

That's because of poor marketing I mean whoever is in charge of that for TNA needs to be fired I have never seen a TNA Commercial outside of Spike and WWE has commercials on alot of channels if TNA Marketed the names they have the right way the could get 1.5 and up but the marketing is just not there it could be that the moneys not their but idk.

[SaySo]

That's because of poor marketing I mean whoever is in charge of that for TNA needs to be fired I have never seen a TNA Commercial outside of Spike and WWE has commercials on alot of channels if TNA Marketed the names they have the right way the could get 1.5 and up but the marketing is just not there it could be that the moneys not their but idk.

It's been poor marketing since the get-go. But i believe it has something to do with having all the eggs (money) in one basket (talent acquisition).

[PeterHilton]

That's because of poor marketing I mean whoever is in charge of that for TNA needs to be fired I have never seen a TNA Commercial outside of Spike and WWE has commercials on alot of channels if TNA Marketed the names they have the right way the could get 1.5 and up but the marketing is just not there it could be that the moneys not their but idk.

That's just stupid.

Marketing? Really? It has nothing to do with the fact that they blew their one chance to impress a bigger audience with those first few shows of the Hogan/Bischoff Era? Or that they moved to Monday waaaay too soon and completely shot themselves in the foot, thereby taking several steps backwards from a ratings standpoint?

Or maybe the names they brought in are just not that interesting to current fans?

TNA is putting on some good shows lately, but rehashing 10 year old names is a mistake and blaming their lack of progress simply on marketing is ridiculous.

[MasterJ]

That's just stupid.

Marketing? Really? It has nothing to do with the fact that they blew their one chance to impress a bigger audience with those first few shows of the Hogan/Bischoff Era? Or that they moved to Monday waaaay too soon and completely shot themselves in the foot, thereby taking several steps backwards from a ratings standpoint?

Or maybe the names they brought in are just not that interesting to current fans?

TNA is putting on some good shows lately, but rehashing 10 year old names is a mistake and blaming their lack of progress simply on marketing is ridiculous.

How will anyone know to watch something that they have never heard of it has all to do with marketing the first few shows with EB/Hogan what it got a 1.5 with no Marketing almost if they would market their product which is a different Sports Entertainment than what the WWE has right now with the promotion of Hogan/Flair/RVD/Hardy they could get better ratings and that 18-49 demo would love the knockout promote that it has all to do with marketing if no one knows what TNA is how is TNA every going to get big?

[SaySo]

They have Dixie Carter's father bank account along with all the increases in house shows/merch/etc. Why doesn't TNA fork up the cash and spend on marketing its brand and getting its name out there? Is it too much to ask?

[PeterHilton]

How will anyone know to watch something that they have never heard of it has all to do with marketing the first few shows with EB/Hogan what it got a 1.5 with no Marketing almost if they would market their product which is a different Sports Entertainment than what the WWE has right now with the promotion of Hogan/Flair/RVD/Hardy they could get better ratings and that 18-49 demo would love the knockout promote that it has all to do with marketing if no one knows what TNA is how is TNA every going to get big?

How exactly do you claim there was no marketing for those first few shows? Did you not notice the MSG press conference, Hogan and Bischoff and Dixie being interviewed on UFC events, the millions of commercials for Hogan's debut on all hours of Spike programming...?

Also..I know you're heard this before...but your posts are basically gibberish and I seriously have no idea what you said after the bit where I quoted. If you can't convey what you're saying in an understandable way it's hard to go back and forth on a message board.

Do us all a favor and spend a second writing more clearly. Please.

[SaySo]

How exactly do you claim there was no marketing for those first few shows? Did you not notice the MSG press conference, Hogan and Bischoff and Dixie being interviewed on UFC events, the millions of commercials for Hogan's debut on all hours of Spike programming...?

Also..I know you're heard this before...but your posts are basically gibberish and I seriously have no idea what you said after the bit where I quoted. If you can't convey what you're saying in an understandable way it's hard to go back and forth on a message board.

Do us all a favor and spend a second writing more clearly. Please.

My father, a non-wrestling fan who use to tell me how it was fake (e.g., Owen Hart incident at Over the Edge, he thought that was fake when it happened), saw those ads with Hogan debuting in TNA. I don't know how he got it because i never suspected him of watching programming on Spike. Nonetheless, he still was able to learn of it. I'm sure people who actually watch the WWE learn of it as well.

[MasterJ]

How exactly do you claim there was no marketing for those first few shows? Did you not notice the MSG press conference, Hogan and Bischoff and Dixie being interviewed on UFC events, the millions of commercials for Hogan's debut on all hours of Spike programming...?

Also..I know you're heard this before...but your posts are basically gibberish and I seriously have no idea what you said after the bit where I quoted. If you can't convey what you're saying in an understandable way it's hard to go back and forth on a message board.

Do us all a favor and spend a second writing more clearly. Please.

They had the MSG which was not seen by many, that had the UFC interview which was good, but were were the commercials, what about having Hogan on TV talking about it what about giving some effort in your Marketing.

As for you saying you understand my writing lol does that just mean that you cant prove me wrong because what I said was perfectly clear:rolleyes:

[MasterJ]

My father, a non-wrestling fan who use to tell me how it was fake (e.g., Owen Hart incident at Over the Edge, he thought that was fake when it happened), saw those ads with Hogan debuting in TNA. I don't know how he got it because i never suspected him of watching programming on Spike. Nonetheless, he still was able to learn of it. I'm sure people who actually watch the WWE learn of it as well.

were does your dad live because I know they did some marketing in NY but not much at all

[SaySo]

were does your dad live because I know they did some marketing in NY but not much at all

Arizona. Unless they had those Hogan/TNA Jan 4th ads on billboards along the train tracks from Tucson to Yuma or Tucson to El Paso, i'm thinking either surfing the internet or an ad on television. So the ads got out. It had to. On Jan 4, 2010, TNA had their biggest ratings ever. They had 3 million fans at one point to witness Hogan appearing at the iMPACT! Zone i believe.

[PeterHilton]

As for you saying you understand my writing lol does that just mean that you cant prove me wrong because what I said was perfectly clear:rolleyes:

No. It wasn't. If you think that this..

if they would market their product which is a different Sports Entertainment than what the WWE has right now with the promotion of Hogan/Flair/RVD/Hardy they could get better ratings and that 18-49 demo would love the knockout promote that it has all to do with marketing if no one knows what TNA is how is TNA every going to get big?

..is 'perfectly clear' then you have some serious issues with the English language.

And I don't have to "prove you wrong." You're wrong.

TNA and Spike spent millions on the promotion of that first episode, it was hyped heavily by mainstream press (here's an article on espn.com http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/index?id=4969328 ) the man was on everything from Larry King to Rachael Ray talking about it and you couldn't watch an hour of Spike without seeing an advertisement.

If you don;t think they promoted his debut, then you were either not paying attention or you're ignoring it to prove your point. Either way..every other person who posts in this thread can tell you: they promoted that show. Heavily. Period.

[ampulator]

MasterJ, you need to stop your run-on paragraphs. No, not run-on sentences... you have those, but you literally have run-on paragraphs. Use Punctuation. Please. And instead of typing whatever you think and pressing "Reply", look it over, and then do it.

[Stennick]

They drew a 2.6 on that Monday Night show. A 2.6 with every major wrestling star in the world not too mention Hulk Hogan.

In fact they had HUGE ratings those first couple of weeks. It had nothing to do with marketing.

There is no logical reason to explain why 2.6 million or whatever it was tuned into TNA impact that January 4th and by the time they left Monday nights they were doing what? .6's? Like Peter said they had every major star in the world that wasn't signed to the WWE.

Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Jeff Hardy, Mic Foley, Team 3D, the nWo, later on Rob Van Dam, Ken Anderson.

The argument that nobody knows they are out there is no longer accurate. Their not as wide spread as the WWE but 2.6 million people tuned in that Monday. Thats nearly triple what they normally bring in, at the very least 1 1/2 times what they bring in. There is a larger audience out there that knows they have Sting, Hogan, Flair, Foley, the nWo, RVD, Anderson, Team 3D and they just don't care. Those 2.6 million or whatever it was tuned in for the first week, after that they clicked away from that to watch the WWE's "younger guys" more and more every week until TNA was forced to run back to Thursday nights.

The fact is nobody in TNA is a draw. Not one single person puts butts in there seats. They have proven it over and over again that no matter WHO the focus of the show is their going to roughly draw the same rating. Remember when it was Christian, remember when it was Sting, Angle, AJ/Joe/Daniels, Jeff Jarrett , it doesn't matter who they throw out there. Young, old they have not found a way to make them into a draw.

Pro Wrestling today is no longer about "draws". If John Cena left tomorrow and showed up in TNA they would get a boost MAYBE for two weeks before people tuned back out and over to the WWE.

Just like TNA has a core 1.0 audience, the WWE has a core 3.0 audience. The WWE's is mostly the remnants of whats left out of the Monday Night Wars combined with some younger kids. TNA's I would imagine is mostly internet fans such as ourselves that tune in combined with a recent spike in either old ECW fans or more casual fans depending on what you give credit to for the recent spike.

People get so caught up in this guy is a draw or that guy is a draw. Hogan, Flair, The Rock, Austin, the nWo, they were MADE into draws with strong storytelling and natural talent on the part of the people playing the characters. It takes more than a talented roster to become a draw. It takes long term (a year plus in most cases maybe more now) QUALITY storytelling.

It can't be you put on three months worth of interesting storytelling before either reverting back to your bland predictable television or even worse swerving into some nostalgia train hoping to bring back people who have long moved on from the world of pro wrestling.

Its not about young or old in fact the only differences between young and old at this point are a few things. First of all from guys like Sting, Foley to Shane Helms their going to come in expecting more pay than guys like Roderick Strong, Desmond Wolfe, Austin Aries, etc. So really if you're going to draw the same no matter what why not drawing the cheaper guys? Aside from being cheaper there is more upside to focusing on 20+ year old guys than there is 40-50 year old guys. Their going to be injured less (in most cases), their going to be able to take the demand that is nightly pro wrestling better and their going to be around longer.

All that being said if you look at TNA's numbers they have had plenty of chances and plenty of spikes in audience. Nobody cares about Mic Foley, Kevin Nash and Sting anymore. Or not near on the level then did in 1996. To say there is no proof is just silly. You can't judge by your neighbor's cousin or your best friends third cousin. The NUMBERS tell the story. 2.6 rating to a .6 rating tells you everything you need to know. Their Thursday numbers rising back up to a 1.0 tells you everything you need to know.

It says "we like your show enough to tune in but if you make us pick between what you have going on and what Vince has going on we will not watch your show". So to say that established stars are still drawing is silly when if that was the case TNA would be murdering the WWE in the ratings right now. Don't blame it on their advertising and marketing which by the way I'm pretty sure Spike controls iMpact's media advertising as far as television goes at the very least. People tuned in on January 4th and haven't tuned back in since.

[Hyde Hill]

You are getting ratings and viewer numbers confused but yeah I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Still one aspect TNA can improve upon is their marketing. Is that the sole reason for their lack of better success? nope. Is it a reason? yep.

Was the jan 4th advertising their biggest ad campaign ever? Yep. Did Hogan mainly talk about his book and then mentioned TNA sometimes without mentioning jan 4th? Yep. Was their highest segment a 1.9 and the total rating a 1.5? Yep. Are there still a lot more possible fans out there who are not aware off TNA? Yep. Do we tend to underestimate that amount seeing as we are wrestling fans? Yep.

Ah well I just hope TNA gets back to their move back to Thursday till EV2.0 quality run of shows from a personal standpoint. Oh yeah and bring back Daniels!!!!!

[Fantabulous]

The January 4th Impact did not do a 2.6 rating. It did a 1.44 rating. The number of viewers were 2..19 million, however.

[Hyde Hill]

Actually it was a 1.5 rating not 1.44.

Source:

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/columns/149739/The-Hamilton-Ave-Journal-08.19.10:-Volume-2-%E2%80%93-Issue-151.htm



And for the three hours:

http://www.examiner.com/pro-wrestling-in-new-york/ratings-news-for-both-wwe-raw-and-tna-impact-on-january-4

I think you where thinking about the second hour.

[Hyde Hill]

In other news according to PWI TNA has indeed signed Becky Bayless. What I have seen from her I like so good to see the KO's getting buffed up again. Remi your analysis of Becky please?

[PeterHilton]

You are getting ratings and viewer numbers confused but yeah I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Still one aspect TNA can improve upon is their marketing. Is that the sole reason for their lack of better success? nope. Is it a reason? yep.


It is definitely a reason but I wouldn't say it's a primary reason. And more than anything I was arguing that TNA did no marketing for the January show.

And you're right that Hogan promoted his book, but that's what you get for dealing with Hogan: he's on board and he'll say all the right things and he'll pimp your company...just so long as there's something in it for him.

[Hyde Hill]

Arguing against the no marketing isn't it?



TNA and Spike spent millions on the promotion of that first episode, it was hyped heavily by mainstream press (here's an article on espn.com http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/index?id=4969328 ) the man was on everything from Larry King to Rachael Ray talking about it and you couldn't watch an hour of Spike without seeing an advertisement.


but at the same time a lack of marketing which is not no marketing.

Anyway this is getting into semantics. And you know we agree here Peter.

[PeterHilton]

Yes. Typo now that I read it.

That's what i meant..I was arguing that TNA did do marketing for the Jan show and yes we agree.

[The Final Countdown]

In other news according to PWI TNA has indeed signed Becky Bayless. What I have seen from her I like so good to see the KO's getting buffed up again. Remi your analysis of Becky please?
I know I'm not Remi, but I'm responding to this anyway. :p

I like Becky well enough, but I'd hope she's being brought in as a manager or personality of some kind. She's never impressed me the few times I've actually seen her wrestle. Of course, TNA puts LVE in the ring from time to time, so anything is possible.

[Fantabulous]

Actually it was a 1.5 rating not 1.44.

Source:

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/columns/149739/The-Hamilton-Ave-Journal-08.19.10:-Volume-2-%E2%80%93-Issue-151.htm

I think you where thinking about the second hour.

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/TNA/article1009629.shtml

Most sites tend to round up to an even number, which is where the incorrect 1.5 comes from. And no, I was not thinking about the second hour.

[The Celt]

UPDATED: TNA Releases Homicide
Posted by Larry Csonka on 08.19.2010

So much for the LAX reunion…

UPDATE: Homicide commented on his TNA release via Twitter, here is what he had to say…

my tna days is over, thank u for the staff members and the boys and girls in the locker room, had a great run, bbllaattt187 for life

yes, hopefully in 4 weeks im 100%, then i make a descion where im going to go and do


ORIGINAL: According to Pwinsider.com, TNA has released former X-Division and Tag Team champion Homicide. Homicide had been with the company since 2005. Since Eric Bischoff and Hulk Hogan came to the company, Homicide had not been used much on Impact, mostly appearing on Xplosion. They shot an injury angle with him, involving Matt Morgan and Hernandez, which was supposed to lead to the return of LAX down the line.

Homicide recently relocated back to the Northeast, and it is expected that he will work a lot in that area again.



My boy is finally free!!!

[BHK1978]

Homicide going is for the best. I mean he is a talented guy who once LAX broke up never went anywhere. I would rather see him go back to ROH where he will probably get pushed again (Also I am going to the ROH card in Mass. in September so for selfish reasons I want to see the best card possible.) rather than not be used at all.

[Stennick]

Homicide being free might give ROH fans a bit of relief after Daniel Bryan and Tyler Black leaving, Davey Richards retiring and still rumors of Daniels and Strong leaving as well.

[Hyde Hill]

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/TNA/article1009629.shtml

Most sites tend to round up to an even number, which is where the incorrect 1.5 comes from. And no, I was not thinking about the second hour.

Weird as the rest of the avenue dated are rounded past the second digit. EG 1.61, 1.67 etc. Still it is a 1.45 not a 1.4 or 1.44 lol, I know nitpicking, and yes if you round that up/down you should make it a 1.5 not a 1.4.

[Hyde Hill]

Homicide being free might give ROH fans a bit of relief after Daniel Bryan and Tyler Black leaving, Davey Richards retiring and still rumors of Daniels and Strong leaving as well.

Agreed, too bad no LAX reunion but if that was not in the cards it is best for both sides. Homocide really shot himself in the foot when he said he did not need practice getting out of the Steel Asylum for the Jan 4th show and thus partly killed the début of Hardy.

[Hyde Hill]

Seems like Tomko and Rosie Lottalove are also gone as they have been removed from the roster page. It has also been updated removing Daniels, ODB and Hall & Waltman.

[Slagaholic]

Agreed, too bad no LAX reunion but if that was not in the cards it is best for both sides. Homocide really shot himself in the foot when he said he did not need practice getting out of the Steel Asylum for the Jan 4th show and thus partly killed the début of Hardy.

If I remember correctly it was supposed to be the start of a feud with Hardy and thus a singles push and he blew it. At least I'll be able to see him close to home now!

[pate]

Seems like Tomko and Rosie Lottalove are also gone as they have been removed from the roster page. It has also been updated removing Daniels, ODB and Hall & Waltman.

Was she even used other than the one time on Impact?

[Slagaholic]

I will give Dixie credit, she's not embarrassing herself on the mic anymore.

[The Final Countdown]

If this EV2.0 stuff is going to lead to Tommy Dreamer headlining Impact(s), I am not a fan.

[Eisen-verse]

If this EV2.0 stuff is going to lead to Tommy Dreamer headlining Impact(s), I am not a fan.

Agreed. I loved ECW but this storyline feels really, really, bland already. Plus, Dreamer shouldn't be headlining anything at this point; to be honest. I'm all for 'telling a story' but really?

Also, it may be a small thing BUT AJ Styles should have come out last in the Main Event & not Dreamer. While Tommy is a 'legend of hardcore', AJ Styles is THE cornerstone of TNA. They should treat him as such.

Side note, I loved AJ's promo tonight.

[MightyDavidson]

If I remember correctly it was supposed to be the start of a feud with Hardy and thus a singles push and he blew it. At least I'll be able to see him close to home now!

How did he blow it? The hole in the top of the cage wasn't big enough for him to crawl out of.

[BHK1978]

Why did they have all faces advance into the semi-finals? I just thought that was dumb. I mean I know the Pope is big for them but really Matt Morgan (as much as I dislike him) probably should have won that match.

[Eisen-verse]

Why did they have all faces advance into the semi-finals? I just thought that was dumb. I mean I know the Pope is big for them but really Matt Morgan (as much as I dislike him) probably should have won that match.

Not to mention, the ending looked pretty botched; just made both of them look bad in my mind.

[20LEgend]

Agree 4 faces in the tourney is strange.

I really feel alot of the angles are such a mess and no-one knows what they are doing and when they are supposed to be doing it, as well as the fans not booing all the heels. Not too impressed with the show, decnt but I get really annoyed by the (Mr. Anderson, The leader of the BP, Dixie and Hulks) reality, realistic segment like where Hogan said I don't know if O can do it anymore and the run ins and promos are so repetitive.

[pate]

I could see them turning Pope or Anderson and having them go over Angle in the finals, having them kayfabe end Angle's career.

[Self]

I like the 'candid' interviews. A lot of them felt less 'stagey' than their usual Hemme-led fare. Some of them were oddly placed though. The Brutus Magnus thing was cool (tad 'inside' and babyface-ish for my liking) but way too early on the show. It was 20 minutes before we had a match. The show lacked momentum going in.

I flicked through Impact. Very little floated my boat. I thought AJ cut a really good promo, especially considering he had to follow Flair. My only problem with it is that I don't understand how he's the heel. AJ is TNA. More than Dreamer or any of those guys at least. If he cut the same promo at Kurt or Joe or MCMG? Different story. That's a heel move. However in this case all I could do is agree with the guy. Then Dixie Carter comes out and tells him to shut up? The storyline is so backwards to me. Why would any wrestling fan cheer Dixie Carter over AJ Styles? I just don't get it.

Angle/Williams was disappointing. I think I over-estimate how good Doug Williams is. The match was short and clunky.

[Hyde Hill]

How did he blow it? The hole in the top of the cage wasn't big enough for him to crawl out of.

Hmm bigger guys then him had no problem before. He blew it because they asked and urged him to practice to get out of the cage and he said he did not need the practice and he could do it. And then well you know the result.

[Hyde Hill]

I like the 'candid' interviews. A lot of them felt less 'stagey' than their usual Hemme-led fare. Some of them were oddly placed though. The Brutus Magnus thing was cool (tad 'inside' and babyface-ish for my liking) but way too early on the show. It was 20 minutes before we had a match. The show lacked momentum going in.

I flicked through Impact. Very little floated my boat. I thought AJ cut a really good promo, especially considering he had to follow Flair. My only problem with it is that I don't understand how he's the heel. AJ is TNA. More than Dreamer or any of those guys at least. If he cut the same promo at Kurt or Joe or MCMG? Different story. That's a heel move. However in this case all I could do is agree with the guy. Then Dixie Carter comes out and tells him to shut up? The storyline is so backwards to me. Why would any wrestling fan cheer Dixie Carter over AJ Styles? I just don't get it.

Angle/Williams was disappointing. I think I over-estimate how good Doug Williams is. The match was short and clunky.

Yeah I am much the same I cheer Fortune on hehe. But I can see what they are doing as it is clear who is supposed to be the heels.

Williams Angle needed more time imho but I liked the semi final matches and Dreamer looked better then ever during his WWECW run. But yeah that should not have been the main event imho. Plus was the title on the line or not? Or is that the idea for extra heel heat. AJ having a TV title that he never defends? Contrary to his own statements I think.

[Self]

Yeah I am much the same I cheer Fortune on hehe. But I can see what they are doing as it is clear who is supposed to be the heels.

It's clear who's supposed to be the heels, yet I find the psychology behind it fundamentally flawed, and a surprising message on TNA's opinion of themselves. Wasn't an old catchphrase of theirs "TNA. This Is Wrestling."? Yet the just-arrived garbage-can nostalgia acts are the babyfaces, and the loyal, homegrown wrestler-wrestlers who have been with the company for years are the heels? To me, it sounds like they're Pro being the saviour of wrestling's cast-offs, and Anti establishing their own identity. Which seems weird to me.

... but I'm biased. I'll admit that. I who was never enamored with the particular crop of ECW guys they have right now, and I don't habour much resentment towards Vince for 'ruining ECW'. I don't think ECW was short changed, nor do I think they particularly deserve another chance. Maybe that's what I'm missing. They're catering towards the Vince-hated ECW fans, who want to see ECW achieve the glory they were robbed of.

I might feel better about the heel-babyface dynamic if Fortune were a bunch of ex-WCW/WWF guys, surrogate Vince McMahons, keeping ECW down once more. However then I'd probably complain about taking too much time on old guys, and not putting any TNA originals over.

Dixie Carter really annoyed me with her promo though. Telling AJ Styles "this is my house". That to me is a gigantic heel line. Vince McMahon to Steve Austin level heel. I've had my boss tell me things like that many times, and it made me want to knock him out. I can relate to AJ's plight. Other than kinda wanting to nail her, I feel no emotional connection to Dixie.

[ChrisKid]

I like the 'candid' interviews. A lot of them felt less 'stagey' than their usual Hemme-led fare. Some of them were oddly placed though. The Brutus Magnus thing was cool (tad 'inside' and babyface-ish for my liking) but way too early on the show. It was 20 minutes before we had a match. The show lacked momentum going in.

I flicked through Impact. Very little floated my boat. I thought AJ cut a really good promo, especially considering he had to follow Flair. My only problem with it is that I don't understand how he's the heel. AJ is TNA. More than Dreamer or any of those guys at least. If he cut the same promo at Kurt or Joe or MCMG? Different story. That's a heel move. However in this case all I could do is agree with the guy. Then Dixie Carter comes out and tells him to shut up? The storyline is so backwards to me. Why would any wrestling fan cheer Dixie Carter over AJ Styles? I just don't get it.

Angle/Williams was disappointing. I think I over-estimate how good Doug Williams is. The match was short and clunky.

AJ is TNA as you said and Dixie Carter i feel shouldn't be on TV as i get annoyed when people cheer her i mean what has she done heroic to deserve the cheers she banned Sting

[Eisen-verse]

I agree with AJ as a heel. I really would love to see him play the role well but there's something missing. Maybe it's just the fact that, regardless of what he says, I like the guy? I mean, maybe they haven't done enough to really make him disliked? Then again, I'm afraid I would probably cheer for anything he did realistically. ha.

As for Fortune, I honestly 100% think this has been botched for the most part. Sure, some will label it as me being a 'smark' but doesn't it feel like this faction was half-assed created under the radar? Plus, Flair has truly become a 'crazy old man' at this point, so, the faction just seems alittle weird. Not to mention, if they really are a group based upon 'taking over TNA' then don't you think they would help their own-guy, can't remember his name for the life of me right now, defeat the Pope in the Title tourney? Seemed a little weird that they wouldn't go 'all in' to get their guy the title. That way, they really do look like they're trying to 'take over'.

As for Dixie, I agree she shouldn't be on TV as the only thing she's really good for is a 'Wow, she looks good for her age' kind of comment. ha.

[Hyde Hill]

I think Fortune atm is more concerned with getting rid of the old guys then the titles atm plus they believe in their own hype so to speak which is why they did not assist their two entrants in the tournament Williams and Morgan. Plus those two are the fringe players/latest additions to the group.

General Smarks will cheer for Fortune, nostalgia marks and smarks will cheer for the Old Guys, marks will cheer for those coming off most sympathetic which atm is still the EV2 guys and Hogan and Jarrett. I personally like it as it is not as cookie cutter as normal plus if they had a whole heel faction of former WCW/WWE stars trying to dominate again it would be MEM2.0.

And yeah Dixie has no place being involved in storylines except maybe uber uber rare occasions like when Sting man handled her. Her role is what Bisch, Hogan and to a lesser extant Jarrett are for.

Stil I enjoyed the show 5 good to decent matches 1 KO storyline match leading to a possible original BP reunion and some nice angles and beat downs. My only real personal gripe was the lack of Joe, Wolf, Hernandez (who would have been better then Terry).

[BHK1978]

And yeah Dixie has no place being involved in storylines except maybe uber uber rare occasions like when Sting man handled her. Her role is what Bisch, Hogan and to a lesser extant Jarrett are for.

I agree. How many people do they have in that company that are basically doing the same on-air job?

AJ is not very good as a heel, he is much better as a face. I mean remember his last heel run? I thought for sure that whole Prince AJ gimmick would have killed his career, much like the Red Rooster killed Terry Taylor's career. Now granted this heel run is not as bad as the last one but he just does not have what it takes to be a good heel.

[Stennick]

I've actually enjoyed A.J as a heel. He's not pandered to the crowd, he's not been lost on the mic and he seems to be confident in what he's saying.

I really wish they wouldn't have started it out by making him Ric Flair Jr. with the robe and even talk of completely dying his hair before I guess settling on frosted tips. If it wasn't for the Hulk Jr. vs. Flair Jr. feud I would have really enjoyed A.J's entire run.

He's a lot more comfortable on the mic now than he was eight years ago. Even his Prince A.J stuff he showed he can be funny or atleast I enjoyed it. It wasn't main event heel type stuff but it was entertaining.

I tell you a guy that doesn't get enough mic time thats Matt Morgan. The guy seems to be Ric Flair's body guard now. I think thats a waste. A bodyguard should be a guy that can just stand there and look mean.

Matt has the ability and charisma to be a main eventer and honestly should be in contention for the title.

Pope, Morgan, Wolfe, those are the three guys that have the stuff right now to be either RIGHT below main event or in the main event. However all of them are kind of just doing whatever now days.

Wolfe's on Xplosion, looks like their going to mat Matt into Flair's bodyguard, and Pope well he's not doing what he was doing in March thats for sure. So frustrating to hear about the "future" when they were well on their way to that in March and now I can't even watch due to the silly EV2.0 stuff.

[Hyde Hill]

The silly EV2.0 stuff, in your words, didn't take up too much time fortunately this week. And agree with Morgan he should talk. That is the weird thing with Fortune most of them could already talk on the mic or can now like AJ only exception is Kaz. Still can not wait till they proudly proclaim they have kicked out or marginalised all the 'old' guys and then AJ says: 'Except for one'. And then they all turn and beat the stuffing out of Flair. At least that is my 'dream' pay-off.

[masterded]

The silly EV2.0 stuff, in your words, didn't take up too much time fortunately this week. And agree with Morgan he should talk. That is the weird thing with Fortune most of them could already talk on the mic or can now like AJ only exception is Kaz. Still can not wait till they proudly proclaim they have kicked out or marginalised all the 'old' guys and then AJ says: 'Except for one'. And then they all turn and beat the stuffing out of Flair. At least that is my 'dream' pay-off.

Only problem with that is we would end up with an AJ vs. Flair match where AJ is the Heel and Flair is the Face. Thought that does seem to fit with what TNA is trying to do which I just don’t get.

So I should boo what makes you different your younger talent and cheer for the people who were made other places? I just hate it. Which is kind of weird cause I don’t hate EV2.0 I don’t hate Sting or Nash (don’t really care about Hogan now or Jarrett ever) I have no problem with the idea of them being there. I also like Fourtune and think it is a good heel stable. The problem is them groups should not be feuding. Fourtune should be feuding with an alliance made up of Lethal, MCMG’s, Pope, some X division guy and Joe. Not in a feud that comes down to (Heel) TNA vs. (Faces) People all at least 10 years pass their prime.

[Self]

I'm hoping Fortune annihilate the ECW guys in that 7 on 7 cage thingy. Just run them out of town. It'll put them over as a force to be reckoned with, and they can move on to a more progressive feud with other TNA guys.

P.S. I love AJ's character when he's a heel. The Prince stuff was really cool. It was around then that I went from "AJ's a pretty good wrestler" to "I really like this guy!". It gave him personallity. I love the character, but it's a babyface character to me. He's like Zack Ryder. Everything the guy does makes me want to cheer for him. That's a babyface.

[Hyde Hill]

Nah no match just kick the crap out of him and end his career. But if a match is necassary if anyone can carry him ala Michaels its AJ. ( Or Angle).

[Hyde Hill]

Only problem with that is we would end up with an AJ vs. Flair match where AJ is the Heel and Flair is the Face. Thought that does seem to fit with what TNA is trying to do which I just don’t get.

So I should boo what makes you different your younger talent and cheer for the people who were made other places? I just hate it. Which is kind of weird cause I don’t hate EV2.0 I don’t hate Sting or Nash (don’t really care about Hogan now or Jarrett ever) I have no problem with the idea of them being there. I also like Fourtune and think it is a good heel stable. The problem is them groups should not be feuding. Fourtune should be feuding with an alliance made up of Lethal, MCMG’s, Pope, some X division guy and Joe. Not in a feud that comes down to (Heel) TNA vs. (Faces) People all at least 10 years pass their prime.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. After a resounding loss (like last week) have the EV2 guys proclaim something along the lines of: Our time is over and we did what we wanted to do, but you disrespected us and our spirit so we found some guys who do respect our work and they will take our vengeance for us. Leading to Lethal, Pope, Guns, Hernandez to come out ( for starters). They can still do that though.

[Hyde Hill]

I'm hoping Fortune annihilate the ECW guys in that 7 on 7 cage thingy. Just run them out of town. It'll put them over as a force to be reckoned with, and they can move on to a more progressive feud with other TNA guys.

P.S. I love AJ's character when he's a heel. The Prince stuff was really cool. It was around then that I went from "AJ's a pretty good wrestler" to "I really like this guy!". It gave him personallity. I love the character, but it's a babyface character to me. He's like Zack Ryder. Everything the guy does makes me want to cheer for him. That's a babyface.

To you. And no offence but as far as I have read you have your own unique taste. But I get your point.

[Self]

To you. And no offence but as far as I have read you have your own unique taste. But I get your point.

Sure. And to be fair, I usually watch Impact at work, with the sound turned down pretty low, so maybe there's more booing going on than I'm hearing. In TNA's defense, I do find their babyfaces more likable than WWE's. Mr Anderson. Pope. Motor City Machine Guns. Jeff Hardy. RVD. Young Bucks. Rob Terry (he's Welsh, so I have to love him) AJ's just an anomaly right now.

[SaySo]

Source: PWTorch (http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/TNA_News_1/article_43264.shtml)

Last night's episode of TNA Impact dipped below the 1.00 rating benchmark following the 1.15 rating for last week's "Whole F'n Show" episode.

We don't have the official TV rating yet. Impact was out of the Top 50 among cable TV programs last night and the lowest-rated show in the Top 50 chart was a 0.98 rating.

Looking at the target audience ratings, Impact's demographic ratings among males 18-34 and 18-49 were the lowest in five weeks.

Impact scored a 0.71 rating among both key male demographics. Last week's show scored a 0.88 rating among m18-49 and a 0.83 rating among m18-34.

In addition to losing older male viewers, Impact's rating among teenage males dropped nearly 30 percent. Impact scored a 0.85 rating among males 12-17, compared to a 1.19 rating in the demo last week.

Looking at competition on cable TV last night, MTV's "Jersey Shore" hit a series high in the adult demographic, but USA Network's scripted shows on Thursday nights were down slightly in total viewers.

The following is a review of the last ten weeks capturing Impact's ratings this week returning to the previous level from June.

June 17 - 0.99 rating
June 24 - 0.98 rating
July 1 - 0.99 rating
July 8 - 1.14 rating
July 15 - 1.09 rating
July 22 - 1.06 rating
July 29 - 1.22 rating
Aug. 5 - 1.21 rating
Aug. 12 - 1.15 rating
Aug. 19 - below 0.98 rating

Caldwell's Analysis: Not a good sign for TNA trying to follow up on the "Whole F'n Show" last week. The show featured "established stars" involved in key segments taking up the majority of focused TV time involved in programs that have little steam behind them, the beginning of a rapid-fire tournament with short, inconsequential matches, the continuation of EV2.0 featured throughout Impact, and disproportionate focus on younger stars on the roster, best exemplified by only a brief video package on Motor City Machineguns, who drew strong quarter-hour ratings throughout the recent tag title series with Beer Money.

The conclusion isn't that TNA should shift exclusively to featuring younger stars, but that if the "established stars" are going to be utilized on TV, they need to be involved in segments that actually carry a sense of importance and are actually leading somewhere to make money for TNA or build the audience's interest in the TV product. That simply isn't the case with TNA's TV product.

===

Updated

The 8/19 edition of Impact did a 0.97 rating, with 1,350,000 viewers

Reaction also dropped this week more precipitously than Impact, doing a 0.62 rating and 824,000 viewers. Last week's debut did a 0.87.

[GDE71]

So they dropped from

1,524,000

to

1,350,000



They dropped 174,000.

[Stennick]

I kind of said this would happen a few pages back. They were putting on REALLY good shows week and and week out slowly climbing the ratings chart. Then they hit a peak right when this ECW stuff was just starting. After a few weeks it looks like either

A. People were tuning in for ECW but there is only so much more water you can pull out of that nostalgia well and TNA's pulled up the last remaining buckets of nostalgia out of it.

or

B. People were never tuning in for ECW they were tuning in because they put three months of interesting, solid booking out there and word of mouth finally caught up to them. Only for these new fans to tune in and realize their friends are on crack for suggesting them this ECW stuff.

The sky isn't falling and they should hover right back around that 1.0 mark their always at but those 1.2's weren't going to keep with Tommy Dreamer main eventing or whatever it is he's doing.

[Self]

Watched Reaction. AJ came off as a prick, so... Good job. I also enjoy Kazarian's glasses.

The stuff with the 4 guys in the World Title Tournament... They're too nice. I know they're all babyfaces, but talking about 'respect' and 'entertaining the fans' is just too cutsie poo for my tastes. It makes wrestling sound like ballet. Don't tell Kurt why you respect him, tell him that you're going to beat his ass. I don't want to see a fun match between two entertainers who respect each other. I want to see an intense fight between two of the greatest warriors the world has ever seen, over a prize so valuable that they're willing to kill each other to win it.

[cappyboy]

Watched Reaction. AJ came off as a prick, so... Good job. I also enjoy Kazarian's glasses.

The stuff with the 4 guys in the World Title Tournament... They're too nice. I know they're all babyfaces, but talking about 'respect' and 'entertaining the fans' is just too cutsie poo for my tastes. It makes wrestling sound like ballet. Don't tell Kurt why you respect him, tell him that you're going to beat his ass. I don't want to see a fun match between two entertainers who respect each other. I want to see an intense fight between two of the greatest warriors the world has ever seen, over a prize so valuable that they're willing to kill each other to win it.

You know, Self, I get the point about about balance and I definitely agree with you about that. There's no way when I'm booking TEW that we get to this stage of a title tourney and don't have heels in the mix. But sadly, I think we've both heard JR's old line about wishes and fishes by now.

But I gotta disagree with you about four faces all playing nice being too cutsie poo.When you have four faces all contending for a title and they are all playing nice, that doesn't make wrestling sound like ballet. It makes it sound like, well, wrestling. Faces are supposed to want the level playing field and have respect for their opponent so they can go out there and the best man can win on his merits. While heels are supposed to disrespect everyone, use the rule book as toilet paper and attempt to create a state of anarchy they believe they alone can control. It's been the way of the ring from the beginning of alignments.

Now, I'll grant you. Faces can have an edge sometimes and that's good. Look at the man in charge here at the moment. One Hulk Hogan. When Hogan was in his prime, sure he could be Mr. Nice Guy and try to give every wayward, slightly shady tweener a fair shake only for them to tip heel on him. But when the chips were down, Hogan enforced all the crowd held good and right with an iron fist and an adamantium leg drop.

Or look at the Ring of Honor guys. From what admittedly little I've seen, it's no wonder to me those guys have the cult following they do. They are able to uphold old-school principles like honor and respect and do so with the kind of hardcore stridence ECW was famous for. So attitude-wise they represent the best of both the old and new schools blended together. And then yes you have the stylistic preferences piled on top of that.

But riddle me this. You have the four guys all playing nice and talking classic face. But what if one of them doesn't mean it? What if one of them's already turned "in their heart" and is waiting for the final to show the world? There's little as prototypically heelish as insincerity. Rare examples like Eddie Guerrero aside, who really loves a liar?

Granted, we as fans shouldn't be having to think about things like this. There should be enough balance we don't have to hope there's a heel turn in the works to justify things. But that lack of balance is the real problem. I have no problem with four face guys all talking "respect" and "may the best man win" to each other as long as they can all convince me I'm meant to believe it. That's not trying to be ballet. That's trying to be wrestling.

[Hyde Hill]

I kind of said this would happen a few pages back. They were putting on REALLY good shows week and and week out slowly climbing the ratings chart. Then they hit a peak right when this ECW stuff was just starting. After a few weeks it looks like either

A. People were tuning in for ECW but there is only so much more water you can pull out of that nostalgia well and TNA's pulled up the last remaining buckets of nostalgia out of it.

or

B. People were never tuning in for ECW they were tuning in because they put three months of interesting, solid booking out there and word of mouth finally caught up to them. Only for these new fans to tune in and realize their friends are on crack for suggesting them this ECW stuff.

The sky isn't falling and they should hover right back around that 1.0 mark their always at but those 1.2's weren't going to keep with Tommy Dreamer main eventing or whatever it is he's doing.

Yeah I talked about something similar before and I really think it is B that is the problem. TNA has had a habit of doing stuff like that. Good streak of shows with 'low' but over long period slowly climbing ratings. Then right at the peak throw in Nostalgia heavy and get one or two good ones in a row and then a drop off.

I think it is also a question of demographics. The night with the brawl at the end with EV2 was high in the 12-17 demo who where attracted by the good string of shows, then they turned out for the pre ppv show but a lot of nostalgia guys in the 18-39/49 bracket turned in. Then after the ppv those guys left and the 12-17 demo stayed for the Whole F'N show. After the whole F'N show they are back in their normal range as the younger demo was burned by all the nostalgia stuff and the older demo had had their nostalgia shot.

Unfortunately Spike itself seems to target the 18-39/49 demo more then the 12-17 when if you are looking for long term and sustainable growth as a Network and Show/Promotion the 12-17 demo should be targeted imho.

[Hyde Hill]

You know, Self, I get the point about about balance and I definitely agree with you about that. There's no way when I'm booking TEW that we get to this stage of a title tourney and don't have heels in the mix. But sadly, I think we've both heard JR's old line about wishes and fishes by now.

But I gotta disagree with you about four faces all playing nice being too cutsie poo.When you have four faces all contending for a title and they are all playing nice, that doesn't make wrestling sound like ballet. It makes it sound like, well, wrestling. Faces are supposed to want the level playing field and have respect for their opponent so they can go out there and the best man can win on his merits. While heels are supposed to disrespect everyone, use the rule book as toilet paper and attempt to create a state of anarchy they believe they alone can control. It's been the way of the ring from the beginning of alignments.

Now, I'll grant you. Faces can have an edge sometimes and that's good. Look at the man in charge here at the moment. One Hulk Hogan. When Hogan was in his prime, sure he could be Mr. Nice Guy and try to give every wayward, slightly shady tweener a fair shake only for them to tip heel on him. But when the chips were down, Hogan enforced all the crowd held good and right with an iron fist and an adamantium leg drop.

Or look at the Ring of Honor guys. From what admittedly little I've seen, it's no wonder to me those guys have the cult following they do. They are able to uphold old-school principles like honor and respect and do so with the kind of hardcore stridence ECW was famous for. So attitude-wise they represent the best of both the old and new schools blended together. And then yes you have the stylistic preferences piled on top of that.

But riddle me this. You have the four guys all playing nice and talking classic face. But what if one of them doesn't mean it? What if one of them's already turned "in their heart" and is waiting for the final to show the world? There's little as prototypically heelish as insincerity. Rare examples like Eddie Guerrero aside, who really loves a liar?

Granted, we as fans shouldn't be having to think about things like this. There should be enough balance we don't have to hope there's a heel turn in the works to justify things. But that lack of balance is the real problem. I have no problem with four face guys all talking "respect" and "may the best man win" to each other as long as they can all convince me I'm meant to believe it. That's not trying to be ballet. That's trying to be wrestling.

Still think Cappy's friend Anderson could/will turn. And given that Angle vs Anderson was so good at Lockdown that seems like a good bet for the final. Otherwise I would put a rocket on Pope. Seems quite clear at this point it will be Hardy vs Abyss and BFG and with the Angle storyline and his court date he ain't winning.

[Self]

But I gotta disagree with you about four faces all playing nice being too cutsie poo.When you have four faces all contending for a title and they are all playing nice, that doesn't make wrestling sound like ballet. It makes it sound like, well, wrestling. Faces are supposed to want the level playing field and have respect for their opponent so they can go out there and the best man can win on his merits. While heels are supposed to disrespect everyone, use the rule book as toilet paper and attempt to create a state of anarchy they believe they alone can control. It's been the way of the ring from the beginning of alignments.

Now, I'll grant you. Faces can have an edge sometimes and that's good. Look at the man in charge here at the moment. One Hulk Hogan. When Hogan was in his prime, sure he could be Mr. Nice Guy and try to give every wayward, slightly shady tweener a fair shake only for them to tip heel on him. But when the chips were down, Hogan enforced all the crowd held good and right with an iron fist and an adamantium leg drop.

Or look at the Ring of Honor guys. From what admittedly little I've seen, it's no wonder to me those guys have the cult following they do. They are able to uphold old-school principles like honor and respect and do so with the kind of hardcore stridence ECW was famous for. So attitude-wise they represent the best of both the old and new schools blended together. And then yes you have the stylistic preferences piled on top of that.

I have no problem with four face guys all talking "respect" and "may the best man win" to each other as long as they can all convince me I'm meant to believe it. That's not trying to be ballet. That's trying to be wrestling.

I don't have a problem with these 4 guys respecting each other, but it's something I'd only mention in passing. "Kurt's one of the greatest of all time, but..." and then talking about how much of an ass-kicker you are, and how it doesn't matter who gets in your way or how much you respect them, nothing's gonna keep you from the holy grail, the ultimate prize, the thing you dream about at night, the TNA World Heavyweight Title. "I don't want to have to end your career, Kurt, but if it comes down to you and me, I'll do it without a moment's hesitation." The title's that important.

I liked Kurt's stuff on Reaction (even if half of it sounded like complaints about creative changing direction and ending his 10-1 challenge) he expressed the desire to win, and the willingness to stop at nothing to get it done. I didn't get that feeling from Anderson or Pope, who spent most of their time putting over everyone else.

I'd love to see Pope win the tournament. Angle's had his time, and Pope is a 'TNA guy' to me now. An interesting standard bearer.

[cappyboy]

I don't have a problem with these 4 guys respecting each other, but it's something I'd only mention in passing. "Kurt's one of the greatest of all time, but..." and then talking about how much of an ass-kicker you are, and how it doesn't matter who gets in your way or how much you respect them, nothing's gonna keep you from the holy grail, the ultimate prize, the thing you dream about at night, the TNA World Heavyweight Title. "I don't want to have to end your career, Kurt, but if it comes down to you and me, I'll do it without a moment's hesitation." The title's that important.


Agree with you as far as making the title feel important. But that's another reason the balance is important here. If you had two and two alignment wise, the faces could balance these two basic tasks against each other better. With so many guys to have to express respect for, consistency demands the appearance of fire in the belly go. You short a guy or two on respect to give that ass-kicker talk, it suggests there's none for those other guys. That shines light on confrontations that might only be in people's minds. It creates anticipation for things you may not intend to have happen in the match. Essentially, they've painted themselves in a corner by having so many faces in the mix. Either they have to turn someone so people want to see someone lose out in the title match or the title change is going to have to do without the kind of impact it deserves.

[sebsplex]

Dixie Carter really annoyed me with her promo though. Telling AJ Styles "this is my house". That to me is a gigantic heel line. Vince McMahon to Steve Austin level heel. I've had my boss tell me things like that many times, and it made me want to knock him out. I can relate to AJ's plight. Other than kinda wanting to nail her, I feel no emotional connection to Dixie.

*Nods* That was a horrible line for a face authority figure to use. I can only think she may have messed up the line otherwise it boggles the mind why somebody would have scripted that. Bischoff and Jarrett were feuding over less provocative statements than that.

Wolfe's on Xplosion...

Apparently Wolfe & Magnus are being lined up to feud with MCMG, which should be great in itself, although yeah, I'd rather see Wolfe further up the card. Still, beggers can't be choosers.

I liked Kurt's stuff on Reaction (even if half of it sounded like complaints about creative changing direction and ending his 10-1 challenge) he expressed the desire to win, and the willingness to stop at nothing to get it done. I didn't get that feeling from Anderson or Pope, who spent most of their time putting over everyone else.

Kurt put his determination over really well, but given the mileage already in that storyline and the rankings as a whole, the tournament annoys me. This could have been used as a chance to really sell the rankings system and just put the guys in the 1 and 2 spots in a title match to crown a new champion.

[sheepy]

"I'd imagine a lot of the old TNA guys are feeling like they're taking a back seat. The thing is..you can't argue with numbers. Last week TNA broke new all-time records for ratings! TNA needed a change. The 6-sided ring and the great technical wrestlers that nobody knew wasn't working. TNA brought in two rock stars, and look at the company now! Dixie often points out how hiring Jeff Hardy and RVD started a whole new era, why do some of the wrestlers not see it? Too young, too green, too selfish to have the correct perspective. Whereas some of the TNA `stars' are lucky to get recognized walking around the studios, Jeff and myself live like actual celebrities, signing autographs and taking pictures EVERYWHERE we go. Without experiencing this, it's probably hard to imagine. In fact, very few wrestlers stick out in people's minds the way that Jeff and I do. WE love our fans and we love their love. TNA is blowing up. Good things will come our way and I see it all happening now. This is a very exciting time. More people watching TNA means more people to the other wrestlers on the card too...as long as they're good enough to hang around with the rising standards."

Rob Van Dam is an idiot after all - who knew?

http://www.twnpnews.com/messages2/29808.php

[eayragt]

"I'd imagine a lot of the old TNA guys are feeling like they're taking a back seat. The thing is..you can't argue with numbers. Last week TNA broke new all-time records for ratings! TNA needed a change. The 6-sided ring and the great technical wrestlers that nobody knew wasn't working. TNA brought in two rock stars, and look at the company now! Dixie often points out how hiring Jeff Hardy and RVD started a whole new era, why do some of the wrestlers not see it? Too young, too green, too selfish to have the correct perspective. Whereas some of the TNA `stars' are lucky to get recognized walking around the studios, Jeff and myself live like actual celebrities, signing autographs and taking pictures EVERYWHERE we go. Without experiencing this, it's probably hard to imagine. In fact, very few wrestlers stick out in people's minds the way that Jeff and I do. WE love our fans and we love their love. TNA is blowing up. Good things will come our way and I see it all happening now. This is a very exciting time. More people watching TNA means more people to the other wrestlers on the card too...as long as they're good enough to hang around with the rising standards."

Rob Van Dam is an idiot after all - who knew?

http://www.twnpnews.com/messages2/29808.php

I can't read the source article from work, and until I can I'm going to treat it with more than an ounce of suspicion.

[cappyboy]

"I'd imagine a lot of the old TNA guys are feeling like they're taking a back seat. The thing is..you can't argue with numbers. Last week TNA broke new all-time records for ratings! TNA needed a change. The 6-sided ring and the great technical wrestlers that nobody knew wasn't working. TNA brought in two rock stars, and look at the company now! Dixie often points out how hiring Jeff Hardy and RVD started a whole new era, why do some of the wrestlers not see it? Too young, too green, too selfish to have the correct perspective. Whereas some of the TNA `stars' are lucky to get recognized walking around the studios, Jeff and myself live like actual celebrities, signing autographs and taking pictures EVERYWHERE we go. Without experiencing this, it's probably hard to imagine. In fact, very few wrestlers stick out in people's minds the way that Jeff and I do. WE love our fans and we love their love. TNA is blowing up. Good things will come our way and I see it all happening now. This is a very exciting time. More people watching TNA means more people to the other wrestlers on the card too...as long as they're good enough to hang around with the rising standards."

Rob Van Dam is an idiot after all - who knew?

http://www.twnpnews.com/messages2/29808.php

Well, first you have to presume this isn't just some muckraker trying to get his career over at RVD's expense by putting his thoughts in RVD's mouth. I don't know this site and the only Ryan Clark I know anything about is a defensive back for the Pittsburgh Steelers. But assuming there is actually some meat here, clearly RVD has never heard of Benjamin Disraeli. "There are three kinds of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

That said, one has to wonder how much he really knows of TNA before he came in. The roster's been through the "too young, too green and too selfish" drama and come out the other end via the Main Event Mafia. Only for new guys who don't get what's been going on to come in and presume to preach to the stars presumably in the making. If there's anything to this, RVD should ask his fellow "rock star" Jeff Hardy about his prior run in the company. Jeff's not as wet behind the ears about things TNA as RVD would appear to be. Jeff knows what it is to have been there when the guys were scratching and clawing for survival and to not have presented the rock star value RVD's apparently giving him.

But it does appear one of two things is true. Either this writer is a disgrace to the alphabet he uses to cobble words together with or like you said, Brother Sheepy, RVD is indeed an idiot after all. Personally, as one who doesn't read the wrestling sites very often, my gut leans to the former. I see muck being raked here.

[Slim Jim]

It's taken from his blog, on his site: http://robvandam.com/rvdtv/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1092

[PeterHilton]

Well, the story is everywhere and is being credited to Meltzer or to a post on RVD's blog.

[PeterHilton]

I'm writing this blog before going to work.
Work , for me, involves going to Universal Studios for the biggest hardcore pay per view
night in years.
ECW! ECW! ECW!
I love how the circle of life adds depth and validity each time it comes around.
All the energy and time you spent enjoying ECW will be justified tonight, as
we will see that it meant a whole lot to a lot of people.
I expect this to be TNA's highest rated pay per view in the history of the company.
That's based on everyone in the streets telling me how much they're looking forward
to it. Me too.


I'd imagine a lot of the old TNA guys are feeling like they're taking a back seat.
The thing is...you can't argue with the numbers.
Last week TNA broke new all-time records for ratings!
TNA needed a change. The 6-sided ring and the great technical wrestlers -that nobody knew-wasn't working.
TNA brought in two rock stars, and look at the company now!
Dixie often points out how hiring Jeff Hardy and RVD started a whole new era, why do some of the wrestlers not see it?
Too, young, too green, too selfish to have the correct perspective.
Whereas some of the TNA "stars" are lucky to get recognized walking around the studios, Jeff and
myself live like actual celebrities, signing autographs and taking pictures EVERYWHERE we go.
Without experiencing this, it's probably hard to imagine.
In fact, very few wrestlers stick out in people's minds the way that Jeff and I do.
WE love our fans and we love their love.
TNA is blowing up. Good things will come our way and
I see it all happening now.
This is a very exciting time.
More people watching TNA means more people exposed to the other wrestlers on the card too...as long as they're good
enough to hang around with the rising standards.


It doesn't matter if you preferred the old style of wrestling when only you and your buddies
knew about it.
We're into making money.
Tonight is going to be a HUGE indicator of what doing the right thing can accomplish.

http://robvandam.com/rvdtv/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1092

In it's entirety it reads more like RVD is sticking up for the people who say that TNA fans don't care about ECW or EV2 or whatever...Van Dam has made some pretty conceited comments in the past, so this isn't exactly a shock

But reading the whole thing, written the day of a PPV, defending his friends...meh...it's not a big deal.

[sheepy]

But it does appear one of two things is true. Either this writer is a disgrace to the alphabet he uses to cobble words together with or like you said, Brother Sheepy, RVD is indeed an idiot after all. Personally, as one who doesn't read the wrestling sites very often, my gut leans to the former. I see muck being raked here.

This is the same bloke who got caught smoking pot whilst the WWE champion and being given the biggest opportunity of his career = idiot ;)

Didn't realise this would cause so much of a stir though. All wrestlers are in the game of self promotion and this is no different. TBH, the fact he's delivered so many average matches annoys me more considering what he was and probably still is capable of. I'm actually left longing for the MEM and the Nation of Violence...

[cappyboy]

It's taken from his blog, on his site: http://robvandam.com/rvdtv/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1092

Fair enough. Since I don't usually bother with wrestling sites of any sort (including the worker's own blogs), I was trying to be diplomatic.

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm pretty old news. But yeah for all I like about him as a performer he is a bit conceited.

[Stennick]

The thing is anymore he's not even in my opinion a top five worker in the company anymore. The things he was doing in ECW are now considered passe compared to AJ Styles, the MCMG, Christopher Daniels, etc.

I've never had a big love affair with RVD. His mic skills are way below what I would want for a National Pro Wrestling Champion.

As has been discussed on here in the past the time for RVD to be a World Champion was 2001/02 not 2006 and not 2010. The only reason anybody recognizes Rob Van Dam in 2010 is because he was on WWE television for 6 years. Kurt Angle, Sting, Hogan, Bischoff, Nash, Hall, Waltman, Hardy, Christian I'm sure all gathered the same reaction.

It has nothing to do with sticking up for ECW. He's basically saying "hey guys in the back I know your upset that you've been busting your ass in this company for the last eight years or so and everytime you guys take two steps forward a WWE or other cast off comes in here and moves you guys further back down the card but oh well my ECW guys are bigger names and we're going to outdraw you"

Thats basically what he said. Only now its not Orlando Jordan moving a guy like Sonjay Dutt or Homicide out of a job. Now its ENTIRE pay per views and television shows being dedicated to guys most of the audience either doesn't know, doesn't remember or doesn't care about anymore.

Rob left the WWE three years ago they didn't experiance a drop in ratings, or a "we want Rob" chant or anything of the nature. Matter of fact there was more of a groundswell to keep Daniel Bryan than there was to keep Rob Van Dam.

The guy smoked away his only chance at ever being remembered for anything great and now he's telling the young guys their supposed to be "motivating" too bad that you guys can't draw like The Sandman and New Jack can.

[TracyBrooksFan]

Former WWE Diva, Katie Lea aka Kat Waters is at tonight’s TNA Impact tapings and worked a tryout match against Madison Rayne prior to the taping, reports Wrestling News World.

Richard Gray writes: “Katie worked as Kat Larue and did a job to Madison Rayne.”

We have been hearing for several months that there is TNA interest in Kat. She would without a doubt be a huge addition to the Knockouts division.

As reported earlier today, Christina Von Eerie is also due to try out this week — probably tomorrow.

Christina Von Eerie, a California based female wrestler who has done a lot of work for AAA in the last year, is scheduled for a tryout at this week's TNA Impact taping. I saw her work last January for Pro Wrestling Guerrilla in California and really liked her look and work. Nice to see TNA looking to add more Knockouts to the mix.

[sabataged]

The thing is anymore he's not even in my opinion a top five worker in the company anymore. The things he was doing in ECW are now considered passe compared to AJ Styles, the MCMG, Christopher Daniels, etc.

I've never had a big love affair with RVD. His mic skills are way below what I would want for a National Pro Wrestling Champion.

As has been discussed on here in the past the time for RVD to be a World Champion was 2001/02 not 2006 and not 2010. The only reason anybody recognizes Rob Van Dam in 2010 is because he was on WWE television for 6 years. Kurt Angle, Sting, Hogan, Bischoff, Nash, Hall, Waltman, Hardy, Christian I'm sure all gathered the same reaction.

It has nothing to do with sticking up for ECW. He's basically saying "hey guys in the back I know your upset that you've been busting your ass in this company for the last eight years or so and everytime you guys take two steps forward a WWE or other cast off comes in here and moves you guys further back down the card but oh well my ECW guys are bigger names and we're going to outdraw you"

Thats basically what he said. Only now its not Orlando Jordan moving a guy like Sonjay Dutt or Homicide out of a job. Now its ENTIRE pay per views and television shows being dedicated to guys most of the audience either doesn't know, doesn't remember or doesn't care about anymore.

Rob left the WWE three years ago they didn't experiance a drop in ratings, or a "we want Rob" chant or anything of the nature. Matter of fact there was more of a groundswell to keep Daniel Bryan than there was to keep Rob Van Dam.

The guy smoked away his only chance at ever being remembered for anything great and now he's telling the young guys their supposed to be "motivating" too bad that you guys can't draw like The Sandman and New Jack can.


E-C-Dub E-C-Dub E-C-Dub E-C-Dub E-C-Dub E-C-Dub E-C-Dub E-C-Dub

[MasterJ]

TNA HIRES NEW MARKETING EXEC
By Mike Johnson on 2010-08-24 10:00:42 TNA has hired Al Ovadia as chief marketing officer, it was announced this week.
Ovadia has served in a variety of key positions in the entertainment world, including executive vice president of Sony Pictures Consumer Products, vice president of licensing and merchandising at Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation and vice president of network creative services at NBC Television.

Ovadia will be overseeing marketing development and licensing for the company.

[Hyde Hill]

Excellent. Hope this will improve their marketing. What happened to the old head of marketing?



Edit: Also hope they sign Katie Lee and didn't Del Ray have a try out recently?

[sebsplex]

TNA needed a change. The 6-sided ring and the great technical wrestlers -that nobody knew-wasn't working.


Heh, I'd love to print up that blog and hand a copy to Kurt Angle.

[The Final Countdown]

Heh, I'd love to print up that blog and hand a copy to Kurt Angle.
Hey, he's right! RVD is a much bigger star than Kurt Angle!
:rolleyes:

[Stennick]

RVD couldn't lace Angles boots. If Kurt didn't have some problems in 06/7 I truly believe he'd be at legendary status. The things this guy did with very little training and in such a short time very few have done.

[MichiganHero]

And Kurt won a gold medal. With a freaking broken neck.

[Hyde Hill]

Angle = Best ever IMHO.

[MichiganHero]

Angle = Best ever IMHO.

Not thee best but up there with the likes of Bret Hart and Lou Thesz.

[The Final Countdown]

Kurt may or may not be the best ever, but he's definitely in the conversation AFAIC.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep and I would chose him personally. For the top guys they are so close it comes down to personal preference in the end.

[Stennick]

As far as all around pro wrestling goes Kurt is right up there. Very few men can talk and perform in the ring the way Kurt has.

Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle take your pick in my opinion.

[Self]

Out of the guys I've been around to properly watch (1996 onwards) Kurt may well be the best. Flair's prime was before-my-time. I don't rate Shawn offense. The 'best wrestler' to me should not only have great matches, not only cut great promos, but also look like an ass-kicking machine. Kurt certainly ticks those boxes.

Too subjective a thing for a definite No.1. He's one of those guys whose matches I never fast-forward though.

[The Bus]

I rate Kurt as the greatest ever in my books. Flair was old when I got to see him, he might be my top choice if I got to really see his prime stuff. Shawn is the greatest worker, but not the greatest wrestler. Not so credible as a threat. Hulk was too selfish and bad of a worker to be counted as the greatest. Macho Man was slightly overshadowed by other stars of his time and he might not have had the personality and therefore connections to be the man. Even though I am a huge fan of Macho Man and he could be seen as a real threat and was a great worker, his "lack of success" kind of hinders his shot for the greatest.

And freaking Olympic gold medal in wrestling with a broken neck! Face or heel, Kurt is pure gold!

[Hyde Hill]

Drug Testing Happening At Impact Zone
The latest round of drug screening is taking place today at the TNA Impact taping in Orlando, Fla. Wrestlers were subjected to physicals, blood work, and drug screening.

Credit to prowrestling.net

See I wrote Dixie said they where doing them. Nice timing for RVD though lol.

[Hive]

Even though I am a huge fan of Macho Man and he could be seen as a real threat and was a great worker, his "lack of success" kind of hinders his shot for the greatest.

Lack of success? He's a 4 times WCW World Heavyweight Champion and a 2 times WWF World Heavyweight Champion. And he won both World War 3 and King of The Ring during his career as well.

I'd say he was pretty successfull, though I agree that he was a little too often given backseat roles to make way for far less impressive performers.

[PeterHilton]

RVD couldn't lace Angles boots. If Kurt didn't have some problems in 06/7 I truly believe he'd be at legendary status. The things this guy did with very little training and in such a short time very few have done.

Angle = Best ever IMHO.

Kurt may or may not be the best ever, but he's definitely in the conversation AFAIC.

As far as all around pro wrestling goes Kurt is right up there. Very few men can talk and perform in the ring the way Kurt has.

Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle take your pick in my opinion.

Agree with all this. Kurt Angle is my favorite wrestler ever and if he doesn't have his personal issues, he probably cements himself as an all time WWE great by now.

Of course, with the change in product and the lack of real wrestling talent among the main eventers in recent years, going to TNA has actually given him a chance to show off even more.

[The Bus]

Lack of success? He's a 4 times WCW World Heavyweight Champion and a 2 times WWF World Heavyweight Champion. And he won both World War 3 and King of The Ring during his career as well.

I'd say he was pretty successfull, though I agree that he was a little too often given backseat roles to make way for far less impressive performers.

Yeah he did win titles, but he was never the franchise player of the promotion. Maybe success was a wrong word to describe his "semi-sidekick" role. Nevertheless he was pure gold in my eyes.

[Moe Hunter]

RVD couldn't lace Angles boots. If Kurt didn't have some problems in 06/7 I truly believe he'd be at legendary status. The things this guy did with very little training and in such a short time very few have done.
And it was an ECW House Show match against RVD where Kurt Angle tore three muscles that led to his departure from WWE in the first place! I believe that in the same interview, Angle said that RVD absolutely admits to not knowing how to wrestle, and appreciates guys like Angle who can carry him through a match between spots.

[ampulator]

And it was an ECW House Show match against RVD where Kurt Angle tore three muscles that led to his departure from WWE in the first place! I believe that in the same interview, Angle said that RVD absolutely admits to not knowing how to wrestle, and appreciates guys like Angle who can carry him through a match between spots.
I enjoy Kurt Angle's work. I'm a huge fan of his. But "getting hurt" is something Kurt Angle sometimes get himself into.

I still recall the times when he did the 450 on Sting. He didn't need to do it. The fans didn't really pop for it. Hell, he ended kneeing Sting right in the chest. Sometimes, I think he takes risks he probably know he shouldn't have to or need to take.

But that's his weakness. In his last WWE run, somehow, during a feud against John Cena, he managed to turn himself accidentally by outwrestling John Cena. Now, Kurt Angle always outwrestles most people, even today. But the fact that it was so obvious Kurt Angle was beyond John Cena's league, even to the markiest mark (at the time), some fans started cheering for Kurt. No matter what he did, people ended up from booing and chanting "You Suck" when his entrance hits, to cheering and clapping after he wrestles.

As for RVD, he's a very naturally talented and athletic spot monkey. His athleticism, natural skill and ability to pick things up, means he can cover up the fact that he IS a spot monkey (unlike Jeff Hardy).

[Stennick]

You said "unlike Jeff Hardy" what would you class Jeff as then? I'm not saying he is or isn't but since you brought him up it sounds like you have a different take on Jeff.

[cappyboy]

You said "unlike Jeff Hardy" what would you class Jeff as then? I'm not saying he is or isn't but since you brought him up it sounds like you have a different take on Jeff.

I don't think that's the unlike part. It appears to me that what he was suggesting is that they are both spot monkeys. But RVD's able to disguise that fact and Jeff isn't.

[Jaysin]

Has anyone ever ordered from Shop TNA? I just ordered four shirts off there(three for me, one for my brother) and I'm hoping I get them before September 10th when I go to a TNA live event.

I got free shipping since my order totaled $57, but how long does that generally take?

[TheEffect]

Has anyone ever ordered from Shop TNA? I just ordered four shirts off there(three for me, one for my brother) and I'm hoping I get them before September 10th when I go to a TNA live event.

I got free shipping since my order totaled $57, but how long does that generally take?

Depends on where you live mate.

[Hyde Hill]

I think they ship from Nashville so the closer the better. Just out of curiosity which t shirts did ya get?

[Jaysin]

For me I got the Pope is Pimp'n shirt, the James Storm "Sorry bout your damn luck" shirt, and the Ink Inc shirt. I was going to get the DILLIGAF shirt too, but I didn't want to break my bank account lol.

I got my brother the Matt Morgan DNA of TNA shirt with the double helix and what not. Matt Morgan is his favorite wrestler, so I figured it'd be cool to get him that one. I might buy him a Beer Money shirt depending on the prices at the house show.

[Blackman]

I guess I'd like Katie Lea, but please no more. Most are already underused anyway. But with one weekly show, that's not surprising.

I still mourn the fact that the X-division stars don't get their deserved spotlight.

[Hyde Hill]

I guess I'd like Katie Lea, but please no more. Most are already underused anyway. But with one weekly show, that's not surprising.

I still mourn the fact that the X-division stars don't get their deserved spotlight.

Well a lot of the X division guys have moved on to either Tag or Heavyweight division so atm it is kinda thin but if Lethal and Kaz have a feud that could help.

The women need strengthening and need to move away from BP focused action imho.

[Stennick]

The last time the X Division title meant anything to me and the last time I really think the put an effort into displaying how great is can be. The last time it did these things was like 2006 with the AJ vs. Daniels vs. Joe matches. Even though I did dislike the fact that AJ Styles was a four time champion or something like that at the time and was still wrestling for the X Division title when he should have been at the forefront of the championship storylines but none the less they did do a good job of displaying how great that championship could be. I have to say though that title has never been as great as it was that first year.

Aj Styles, Jerry Lynn, Michael Shane, Chris Sabin, Kazarian, Low Ki thats when the division was truly about no limits.

The X Division title is a great gimmick. You can bring in two virtually unknown stars, give them ten minutes of television time to do some crazy, insane, off the wall, jaw dropping spots and there ya go. You could bring some of the top unrecognized indy talent of today, throw them all in the X Division, three ways, four ways, ultimate x and it would feel fresh and new.

Since they have been on Spike T.V TNA hasn't truly unleashed the X Division like they did in the days of pay per view.

[juggaloninjalee]

The X Division was their selling point that truly made them different than WWE. Just like WCW had the cruiserweights that grabbed your attention.

Why doesn't TNA see this?

Get Delirious back. Book him, Amazing Red, Jack Evans, Samoa Joe(since he keeps falling down the card), and Christopher Daniels among other possible guys.

[Hyde Hill]

Seeing as Delirious just became ROH head booker ain't happening and I would not want to see happen personally as I do not feel he has mainstream appeal. Joe and to a lesser extent Daniels have/had moved on from the X Division. Red and Evans are too much spot monkey for my liking.

Personally I would have Lethal, Kaz, Young, P Williams, Dutt and Aries make up the main singles competitors for the division. With the Bucks, MMG and Londrick as mainly tag who also feature in the division as well as Williams from the BI and Homicide from LAX. Ad in Ink Inc and Sharkboy as sympathy jobbers and that is a very strong division.

The problem remains time and attention though. Maybe scrap the KO's or once Xplosion gets picked up in the US and goes full hour move one or both of them there. Seems that sometimes people overlook the fact that by adding the KO's the X Division automatically got less time.

[juggaloninjalee]

Seeing as Delirious just became ROH head booker ain't happening and I would not want to see happen personally as I do not feel he has mainstream appeal. Joe and to a lesser extent Daniels have/had moved on from the X Division. Red and Evans are too much spot monkey for my liking.

Personally I would have Lethal, Kaz, Young, P Williams, Dutt and Aries make up the main singles competitors for the division. With the Bucks, MMG and Londrick as mainly tag who also feature in the division as well as Williams from the BI and Homicide from LAX. Ad in Ink Inc and Sharkboy as sympathy jobbers and that is a very strong division.

The problem remains time and attention though. Maybe scrap the KO's or once Xplosion gets picked up in the US and goes full hour move one or both of them there. Seems that sometimes people overlook the fact that by adding the KO's the X Division automatically got less time.

I could deal without the KO division honestly.

[Hyde Hill]

If they go back to the Kong vs Kim days I would not mind. But the BP focused show I do mind. I like(d) them in their original formation as the anti KO heels that rarely win but get their heat back via angles and being "hot". Not as the centre of attention and with 3/5 of them out there.

[Slagaholic]

After watching Dixie so much I think that if she does something like slap Ric Flair she'd get over. She wouldn't be a waste of time anymore. She's not a retread!

It's times like this where I miss old Russo because he would totally run a Dixie Carter ****ed Ric Flair and got pregnant with his child storyline.

This is close enough. Five ****ing stars. Go crazy TNA go ****ing crazy.

Yay no more Dixie! Hogan as commish. About ****ing time.

Flair: "They are going to take over. It won't be tonight!"
Hogan: "Why won't you do it tonight?"
Flair: "BECAUSE I'M NOT READY TONIGHT!"

Greatest back and forth in the history of wrestling.

Ric Flair is really trying to get Morgan over. that's good!

[Stennick]

Ric Flair still might be the most entertaining guy in TNA at 70 or whatever he's up to these days.

[TheBlake]

This is the first time I've watched TNA in a long time. And I guess I know why I don't watch it on a regular basis now. That opening between Hogan and Flair was just brutal.

[The Final Countdown]

Tony Mamaluke beating up James Storm in a fist fight = :rolleyes:

[Slagaholic]

I like this segment. Jeff Jarrett is showing cowardice looking to find help. Sting and Nash are on to something methinks...

[Slagaholic]

Tony Mamaluke beating up James Storm in a fist fight = :rolleyes:

Chris Sabin and Alex Shelly beating up James Storm and Robert Roode in a fist fight = :rolleyes:

Suspend your disbelief my friend. It makes wrestling far more enjoyable. Even when it's bad.

[The Final Countdown]

Chris Sabin and Alex Shelly beating up James Storm and Robert Roode in a fist fight = :rolleyes:

Suspend your disbelief my friend. It makes wrestling far more enjoyable. Even when it's bad.
I didn't mean I had a hard time buying it because of the size differential. It was because Mamaluke is so low on the totem pole.

[Slagaholic]

OK enough of Hogan this hour. Quota is full.

[The Final Countdown]

OK enough of Hogan this hour. Quota is full.
COMPLETELY agree. Way too much Hogan so far.

[The Final Countdown]

...and MORE Hogan!

[Slagaholic]

I didn't mean I had a hard time buying it because of the size differential. It was because Mamaluke is so low on the totem pole.

If you want to get a guy over really quickly, what do you do? You can have him get beat down, yes. But he also has to gain a measure of revenge. Mamaluke wasn't being booked as Tony Mamaluke the wrestler who hasn't been on national TV since the 2002, but as Tony Mamaluke the member of EV2.0. Do you think Storm was hurt by that at all? He was one person in the middle of an arena wide brawl.

If your problems are with TNA even having an ECW storyline, then I can't argue with you. Personally I love it, but I was raised on ECW. But if you're talking about the booking decision to have Mamaluke beating down Storm: see above.

[Slagaholic]

And it looks like this entire conversation is now moot. Nothing like a good old fashioned squash match. I miss those.

Like Fortune's new hand signal. Meh to the logo.

[The Final Countdown]

If your problems are with TNA even having an ECW storyline, then I can't argue with you.
I think this is it more than anything. I liked ECW a lot back in the day, but I just have no interest in seeing the vast majority of those guys in what is supposed to be the #2 promotion in the world in 2010.

The Mamaluke thing wasn't even a big deal to me, really. It sort of annoyed me for a moment, but it was just a little thing.

And it looks like this entire conversation is now moot. Nothing like a good old fashioned squash match. I miss those.
Yeah, even if I had thought that opening brawl had made Storm look bad (which I didn't, really), that annihilation would have more than offset it.

[Slagaholic]

Loving how the backstage segments are evolving. That last segment alone just made me fall in love with Stevie Richards all over again and all he did was yell and look mad.

[Slagaholic]

I think this is it more than anything. I liked ECW a lot back in the day, but I just have no interest in seeing the vast majority of those guys in what is supposed to be the #2 promotion in the world in 2010.

The Mamaluke thing wasn't even a big deal to me, really. It sort of annoyed me for a moment, but it was just a little thing.


Yeah, even if I had thought that opening brawl had made Storm look bad (which I didn't, really), that annihilation would have more than offset it.

I don't mind EV2.0 if its a vehicle to get Fortune over (not the members, the stable as a brand). The FBI did an amazing job. They certainly earned their pay checks tonight.

[The Final Countdown]

I don't mind EV2.0 if its a vehicle to get Fortune over (not the members, the stable as a brand). The FBI did an amazing job. They certainly earned their pay checks tonight.
They did, absolutely. They made Beer Money look great.

[Slagaholic]

I want more Wolfe-Magnus-Chelsea. More! More! More!

[Slagaholic]

Tag team wrestling is back.

[Slagaholic]

LOLONDON BRAWLING

I don't know if that name makes me laugh because of how awesome it is or because it's so damn cheesy. I think it's both.

[TheEffect]

LOLONDON BRAWLING

I don't know if that name makes me laugh because of how awesome it is or because it's so damn cheesy. I think it's both.

The cheesiness, and i'm British xD

[cappyboy]

This is the first time I've watched TNA in a long time. And I guess I know why I don't watch it on a regular basis now. That opening between Hogan and Flair was just brutal.

MAn, you aren't kidding. I'm looking at this group of Flair's and I'm wondering what masochist put this monstrosity together. AJ's to be expected of course.

But Matt Morgan as a flunky? NO.

Beer Money still insisting on working a heel turn I hated to start with? NO.

As fellow flunkies no less? Double NO.

Kazarian anywhere near something this important? NO

Dixie? Okay. She's cute. I could look at her for a little bit.

And that cavalry.

Pope. Sure. I'll take that.

Angle. Works. Last face turn was kind of awkward. But I like him enough play along.

Anderson, Hardy AND Hogan?

UGHK!!

WAITER, CHECK PLEASE!!

[juggaloninjalee]

Flair is giving an angry fuming promo and then gets choked by Sting. Then 5 minutes later does a promo with Fortune where he is all smiles. Then comes out to the ring being very calm... Those 3 things bothered me.

EV2.0 bugs me because most that group hasn't been relevant in 10 years. Now they are all being booked like these legends and really they are nothing more than indy wrestlers getting good pushes based on their past with ECW. Blah! EV2.0 only sends 1 guy after Abyss? Why not everyone? Strength in numbers remember?

[Self]

Just watched a chunk of Impact. MCMG's rock band promo, The Handsome Devils go shopping, and MCMG vs Generation Me. The promos were fun stuff but the tag match was really weirdly put together. The Machine Guns are coming off of the biggest feud of their careers and are massive babyfaces, yet they proceed to slow the match down, and 'get the heat' on Max Buck, basically playing heel. The crowd didn't know what to think, I didn't know what to think, and until Jeremy hit that X-Factor that Sabin sold AWESOMELY there was no heat for the hot tag & comeback. Generation Me should have been the heels, and if they couldn't do that, they should have booked a different match. It got good by the end, but man that was a weird match.

Will watch more impact later. Despite my complaints, I've been watching far more TNA than WWE for a solid month now. Have I crossed the line?

EDIT: Also... wouldn't you put on the "Generation Me, Impact Players of the week" segment before they have their match? Total nitpick, but putting it on beforehand would have made the match seem more important, and may have even softened the blow of MCMG playing heel. Good little segment, that. Still too 'inside' for my tastes, but Max could be a pretty good talker some day.

[Astil]

Watched TNA. A couple good matches in between a lot of old people talking. Luckily the matches made up for the old people I never cared about.

[Stennick]

I'm not sure which old people referring to but if you never cared ever about Sting, Flair, Hogan, Foley, then I'd not only be a bit surprised but wonder who you cheered for as a kid.

[Blackman]

Meh. That was then, this is now. And they are over. Don't get me wrong, I'd still dig segments with Hulkster and Flair. But they need to be good, not crappy trashy segments.

WHOOOO!!!

[Slagaholic]

8/26 Impact – 1.07 rating

8/26 Reaction – 0.68

[Stennick]

I guess thats pretty good for ReAction.

[Self]

I'm not sure which old people referring to but if you never cared ever about Sting, Flair, Hogan, Foley, then I'd not only be a bit surprised but wonder who you cheered for as a kid.

Didn't cheer for any of them when I was a kid either. The only one in those segments I liked back in the day was Jarrett, who doesn't do a whole hell of a lot for me nowadays.

That being said, I'm enjoying Flair.

P.S. I forgot about Reaction! I gotta track that show down. I'm a fan.

[Hyde Hill]

Decent episode some good stuff some bad. Not going to nitpick through all of it. Actually felt last week was better despite the rushed tournament. Hope Dixie's on air role is over now.

[Jaysin]

Didn't cheer for any of them when I was a kid either. The only one in those segments I liked back in the day was Jarrett, who doesn't do a whole hell of a lot for me nowadays.

That being said, I'm enjoying Flair.

P.S. I forgot about Reaction! I gotta track that show down. I'm a fan.

You are certainly an anomaly!

I didn't think Jarrett has ever had an actual fan. The only stuff I've ever really liked out of him were his world title matches with Booker T in WCW and his matches with Angle in TNA. Then again, Booker and Angle carried him to having some good bouts. Jarrett's just so bland compared to everyone else in those segments.

and to quote Christian...

"Don't piss me off...wow that's money!"

[Self]

I liked Jarrett in the WWF days, doing the country singer gimmick, and then when he was teaming with Owen Hart. After that I always supported him in a mild way. He's not the most exciting or talented or successful guy, but I don't gravitate towards those things. I simply like who I like, and don't analyze it too much.

[Slagaholic]

Jeff Jarrett definitely has a huge fan. His name is Vince Russo.

[cappyboy]

You are certainly an anomaly!

I didn't think Jarrett has ever had an actual fan. The only stuff I've ever really liked out of him were his world title matches with Booker T in WCW and his matches with Angle in TNA. Then again, Booker and Angle carried him to having some good bouts. Jarrett's just so bland compared to everyone else in those segments.



::raises hand::

Jeff Jarrett's one of those guys that shows why so much of wrestling analysis is hyper-inflated. Ever hear the old phrase "jack of all trades, master of none"? That's Jeff Jarrett. He was never going to blow your mind but he's what you were there to see. Beyond a certain level, i.e. a shade below TNA, he was never going to make sense as champion unless he owned the place a la TNA. He's more the guy you called on to let people recharge their batteries so they were ready for the fireworks

But I agree with Self. Jarrett's not the kind of guy you gravitate to because he knocks your socks off. He's the kind you you back because you relate to him or you're the kind that embraces supporting players. Problem is his involvement in the straining days of WCW and his foundership of TNA tends to obscure that for a lot of people. There's sort of a Virgil thing with Jarrett. A sort of "why that guy instead my guy" jealousy he inspires and the fact he's second gen certainly doesn't help with that. There's plenty of room for Jarrett to have fans without them being irrationally exuberent Russo types. I've been a Jeff Jarrett fan going back to the Simply Irresistible days. It's just a different breed of fandom than the megastars get and not everyone can appreciate.

Self's a pretty different cat when it comes to how he approaches his fandom. At times, I can be too. I've always had an appreciation for the support guys. Even when I was a kid. At times, I feel like that can be a double-edged sword in my life. But that's what it takes to really be a Jeff Jarrett guy.

Truth be told, I can't think of too many guys in the biz I'd rather be if I got the chance than Jeff Jarrett. The guy had a long running ring career that astounds critics like you who find him bland. He founded his own company to ride off into the sunset in. He's created a platform for young talent that might otherwise have gone overlooked. Granted the platform doesn't always perform that function perfectly. But over the life of the company it seems to have done pretty well at it. The guy's living what a lot of us would consider a dream. A guy like that may never get gushed over a like a Cena or a Hogan. But that kind of guy's always going to have his pocket of fans. Quiet and easily overlooked as they may be by comparison.

[MasterJ]

Just watched Impact and Reaction Both were really good imo I'm loving the Sting/Nash/Hogan/Jarrett/Flair/ and all other people involed lol I still dont think Fortune is they and I love how on reAction TBP called out LayCool for copying them

[Jaysin]

I wasn't bashing Self for liking Jarrett. I actually like Self quite a lot, well based on his postings on the forums that is. Other than my friend, I've never heard anyone admit to being a Jarrett fan.

There are a lot of wrestlers that aren't megastars that I like. Kevin Fertig for one. I'm such a huge fan of his work that I just wish someone would give him another shot.

Sorry if it seemed like I was bashing you Self. That wasn't my intention at all :o

[cappyboy]

I wasn't bashing Self for liking Jarrett. I actually like Self quite a lot, well based on his postings on the forums that is. Other than my friend, I've never heard anyone admit to being a Jarrett fan.


Can't speak for Self naturally. But no worries on this end. I never thought you were bashing him. I was just trying to explain the appeal and how one might come to be a Jarrett fan.

[BHK1978]

I do not mind Jeff, I have been watching him going back to his days in the USWA. Then again I tend to be fans of the guys that most people do not pay attention to I am a huge fan of Bobby Eaton, Arn Anderson, and George "The Animal" Steele. As you can see my favorites do not match up with the favorites of others.

[Self]

Are you kidding me? Absolutely no offense taken. Not even the slightest bit.

I'm not so much a Jarrett fan now, although when I went to a TNA show on their first UK tour, and he came out as a special unannounced guest, I popped! Well... as close as I can get to popping. I'm a quiet chap. Still, I was psyched in my own low-key way. Brand loyalty. He got me young, so I'll support him in some fashion forever.

I also liked Tatanka and the Beverly Brothers.