The Official TNA Discussion Thread

[TDubRaiders]

I've been a Jeff Jarrett fan pretty much since his rise in WCW when he was wrestling Booker T for the title. Did Jeff deserve to be main eventing for the second biggest company in the US? Probably not but WCW was a sinking ship. I am not much of a fan of JJ anymore but I still think he's a good veteran to put over young talent. I don't think he should even be anywhere near the main event and think he would be really good feuding with someone to help put them over in the mid card.

TNA really needs to establish the young guys and they are starting to do better but I don't think there doing a good enough job. And they need to focus a lot more on the X division because right now it's a joke

[Jaysin]

I bought the PWI 500 mag yesterday just to take to the TNA live event I'm going to. I want to get AJ to sign it since he's scheduled to be there and I bought the meet and greet tickets.

[cappyboy]

I also liked Tatanka and the Beverly Brothers.

I'll give you the Beverlys. I never took to Tatanka. The same time he was debuting the Youngblood brothers were becoming the Tribal Nation, Brave Sky and Nikona, in Global and they had this big ritual ceremony as a part of taking the greater tribal identities. When Chavis had his intro videos under his given name and had his debut as Tatanka without anything similar, it soured me on him. For his whole run in WWE, I looked at him as a fake and a fraud. I actually cheered when he turned heel and joined Ted DiBiase's Million Dollar Corporation. It meant the rest of the WWF "universe" was going to catch up with how I'd felt about the turncoat all along.

But I did like the Beverlys. The guys who played the Beverlys anyway. Albeit more so in the AWA as Destruction Crew. I never cared so much for the actual gimmick. I especially marked for Mike Enos (Blake). When they were in the AWA, they had a shtick while Enos would get asked questions in interviews only for Wayne Bloom (Beau) to jump in and answer them for him. As a smark, I now get that was because Bloom was considered the better speaker.. But it always made me hate him and feel sympathetic to Enos. Because of this, part of me was annoyed they were still together to have BECOME the Beverly Brothers. I had always wanted Enos to turn face by decking Bloom and asserting his right to speak in interviews.

Even as Enos was in WCW at the the twilight of his career and no longer the sympathetic victim type he was in the AWA, I still marked to see him on WCW Saturday Night. Sure it was more the Joey Maggs, Jim Powers kind of jobber marking at that point. But even so, it was satisifying to see him be the more relevant guy on the team after Bloom had already faded into the woodwork.

[Hyde Hill]

Last 8 seconds gotta love it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQwjCTHZwfE

[|Anderz|]

Look at this FANTASTIC calendar for early September...

Sep 5 - TNA No Surrender
Sep 6 - TNA Impact! Tapings
Sep 7 - TNA Impact! Tapings
Sep 8 - TNA Impact! Tapings
Sep 9 - Anderz flies to Orlando
Sep 23 - Anderz flies home
Oct 11 - TNA Impact! Tapings


absolutely typical..

[Marshall]

Last 8 seconds gotta love it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQwjCTHZwfE

I like the Beautiful People, but just so I'm clear, they think they invented the snotty bitch gimmick and thereby no one else can use it? Pretty sure Trish Stratus was doing the gimmick when she turned heel way before the BP even existed. I also like the way they seem to believe gimmicks have never been recycled before in wrestling and that they're totally original. As i say, i like them, but i think they need to get over themselves a little bit tbh.

[cappyboy]

I like the Beautiful People, but just so I'm clear, they think they invented the snotty bitch gimmick and thereby no one else can use it? Pretty sure Trish Stratus was doing the gimmick when she turned heel way before the BP even existed. I also like the way they seem to believe gimmicks have never been recycled before in wrestling and that they're totally original. As i say, i like them, but i think they need to get over themselves a little bit tbh.

Heck forget Trish Stratus. How about we talk Missy Hyatt? Or even Heidi Lee Morgan. We go back to Missy that puts the Beautiful People just about in diapers when the gimmick was pioneered.

[jwt13]

I like the Beautiful People, but just so I'm clear, they think they invented the snotty bitch gimmick and thereby no one else can use it? Pretty sure Trish Stratus was doing the gimmick when she turned heel way before the BP even existed. I also like the way they seem to believe gimmicks have never been recycled before in wrestling and that they're totally original. As i say, i like them, but i think they need to get over themselves a little bit tbh.

its diffrent from when a gimmick is in the past and not your competion, Laycool is a direct copy of TBP I just hope they dont turn Low Ki into a Kute Kip charcter after NXT

[Hyde Hill]

Dixie is at it again! From facebook:

"Just signed a new talent contract on someone you guys have been asking about. Stay tuned!"




Many possibilities here but my money is on Katie Lea.

[jwt13]

Dixie is at it again! From facebook:

"Just signed a new talent contract on someone you guys have been asking about. Stay tuned!"




Many possibilities here but my money is on Katie Lea.

Well at least shes not say the greatest addition to the knockouts division ever if its Katie Lea I say Rodrick Strong

[Hyde Hill]

Has Roderick gotten less bland btw? Haven't seen a lot of him lately as I follow ROH sporadically.

[jwt13]

Has Roderick gotten less bland btw? Haven't seen a lot of him lately as I follow ROH sporadically.

Have never seen him wrestle TBH I've watched some ROH but I honestly cant stand it. But I heard he had a try out and I know that he has a good cult following if I'm not mistaken?

[Hyde Hill]

BTW in one hour Eric Bischoff will be taking questions from his facebook again on mondaynightmayhem. I got in 13 questions posted without interruption so if you have a q for him now is the time.

On Strong, well most uppermid/ME ROH wrestlers seem to have some cult following. Doesn't mean they are good enough for a mainstream promotion. Doesn't mean they aren't either. I think almost every wrestler has his fans. Hell I have seen people clamouring for Luger and Bagwell or a return of the Nasties.

[Hyde Hill]

Pope tweeted this:


Just heard the news. Now THAT....That's Cool!~ PHS


Damn if that is correct. Not like lito sucks but he doesn't ad anything to the product imho.

[Hyde Hill]

Lol too fast Pope tweeted again:

Whoa! Just got the "News" of Pope's earlier news. That was purely coincidental. For The Record, Pope has NO CLUE as to who was signed

[Tigerkinney]

On Strong, well most uppermid/ME ROH wrestlers seem to have some cult following. Doesn't mean they are good enough for a mainstream promotion. Doesn't mean they aren't either.

As an in-ring performer Roderick Strong is very talented, but he is a charisma vacuum, it's probably why even a Performance Based fed like ROH has yet to give him a run as their World Champion and he's consistently been booked as a 'nearly man' for the past five years.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah that was my impression as well. If they do bring him in they should get Aries as well as they had a tag team right and have Aries do the talking. He got fired over a misunderstanding so the bad blood shouldn't be too big.

[Stennick]

Yeah Carlito would add nothing to the product right now so hopefully they don't go that route. Not too mention he's shown to work about as hard as he's being pushed and thats not the kind of guy you need around.

[Jaysin]

Yeah Carlito would add nothing to the product right now so hopefully they don't go that route. Not too mention he's shown to work about as hard as he's being pushed and thats not the kind of guy you need around.

I dunno, I like Carlito a lot. I have since his debut in WWE. When he's on his game, he's great in my eyes.

Sadly, he ruined the first time I got to see Ron Killings in person. I went to a Smackdown/ECW house show before Killings re-debuted as R-Truth, and it was Truth vs Carlito. Since Carlito was so unhapppy, he no sold damn near everything Truth did. When I found out they were facing each other, I was ecstatic...such a let down.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep and if we where talking 2005/06 he might get a high push ala Christian. With the current roster he is an uppermidcarder at the very very best.

[TDubRaiders]

Yeah I like Carlito but I agree with Hyde. If this was a few years ago I would say yes but you don't want someone who basically takes days off in the ring if he's not in a good mood. You need someone who will give 110% every time they go out there and I don't see Carlito doing that.

They need to stop signing so many new people without letting other people go. And people they do let go are the wrong people...(Kong, ODB, Alissa Flash, Aries, Petey Williams, Sonjay Dutt, Creed etc.)

[Stennick]

I'm still trying to figure out how they let Petey go with one of the best looking finishers. The guys last run was stupid as mini Steiner but none the less he was great.

[Hyde Hill]

Lol accept for Creed agree with that list lolz. Was working on another potential roster with a high TNA original perception level, and added all the others. Yep on Petey and why they did not put him over Steiner in the end of that feud is beyond me. Williams also helps with the canuck audience and Dutt with the Indians. Plus Petey is more then just his finisher. Good all round wrestler and decent enough promo.

[Jaysin]

Dutt has always irritated the crap out of me. I wasn't sad at all when he left.

[Hyde Hill]

Dutt has always irritated the crap out of me. I wasn't sad at all when he left.

Depends in what way he irritated you hehe. Go away XPac/Bubba Sponge way or Heel heat? Plus India is an important market.

[Jaysin]

I love Sean Waltman. I have since 1-2-3 Kid. So that's a bad example :p

It's not that Dutt didn't impress me in the ring, he did, but his mannerisms and voice just made me change the channel.

I don't think that counts as heel heat.

[Tigerkinney]

Depends in what way he irritated you hehe. Go away XPac/Bubba Sponge way or Heel heat? Plus India is an important market.

Can't say I thought Dutt was much of a miss to the TNA roster either, but I can't say I actively disliked him, he was just 'meh' to me. Came across as nothing more than a glorified jobber with some flashy moves (then again that might have something to do with the way TNA booked him throughout his entire run with them). Anyway I feel the same way about Amazing Red and would feel the same way about both members of Generation Me, if they went singles.

[Hyde Hill]

I have that more with the Bucks as singles and Red then Dutt. I really feel it was more the booking. While the angles he was in where stupid he did do them reasonably well.

[TDubRaiders]

I agree with most that Dutt was "eh" but when they needed someone to put on a good X division showing I think he did a pretty good job. Would I ever have him be X Div champ prob not.

And Petey was so under rated. I liked his look at the end of his TNA run except for the blonde hair. I agree with you Hyde that Petey was def more than just the finisher but I mean damn I've never seen someone so over off just a finisher. The whole crowd would stand up just when it looked like he might hit it. I think he was a damn good wrestler and his matches with AJ over the X div title in I believe '05 or '06 were damn good.

I've said it before the X div is an absolute joke. It was absolute favorite part of TNA back in the day and they've made it less and less enjoyable every year. They tried to re-establish it this year but have failed because they have no division to speak of.

[jwt13]

IMO I would really rather watch TNA build their tag division more than the spot monkey division I like Spot monkey wrestling but the fact that they have Williams is good for me

[Jaysin]

Douglas Williams is severely underrated in my opinion.

[Hyde Hill]

IMO I would really rather watch TNA build their tag division more than the spot monkey division I like Spot monkey wrestling but the fact that they have Williams is good for me

It was never really spot monkeyish as a rule though. Yeah they had it occasionally with the multi-man matches or now with Red. But doing (lots) off highspots is not the same as being a spot-monkey. And they generally showcased some good technical wrestling as well.

[TDubRaiders]

I enjoyed the X division a whole lot in the early years. I liked when they would throw in the multi-man X division match just to showcase the talent. Was a technical masterpiece? Absolutely not but it got to showcase the guys in the division even if they weren't contenders. The X Div title matches were always very good though and were def less spot monkeyish.

Jaysin def agree Doug Williams is very underrated. Would love to see him get to perform with actual X division wrestlers but the storyline he's in now won't allow that.

Also the tag division could be very very good. Sad to see Homicide go though cause adding LAX to the mix would have been great but can't wait to see how MMG title reign goes and who else challenges them. Also love the team of Desmond and Magnus should be a great addition to the tag ranks.

[SaySo]

As reported on earlier, next week's edition of TNA Impact (set for September 9) will be preempted by Spike TV. According to representatives of Spike, there will be no new episode of Impact that week in a different timeslot. This means TNA will not be presenting a new episode of Impact just days following the No Surrender PPV on September 5.

TNA has TV tapings scheduled for September 6, 7 and 8 in Orlando.

Source: Wrestling Observer

===

This doesn't look right. The wording "There will be no new episode of Impact that week in a different timeslot" is odd. We will need follow up on this one.

Okay, below i found another site:

===

TNA IMPACT! will be pre-empted by Spike on September 9.

Sources at the network say that there will be no TNA programming on Spike next week, which will be the week after No Surrender.

Source: PWInsider

[TracyBrooksFan]

Congratulations are in order for Angelina Love and Velvet Sky, as their highly anticipated reunion as The Beautiful People last week scored the highest rated segment on Impact according to ProWrestling.net.

Ang and Vel-Vel, as well as Madison Rayne, all cut extremely strong promos on last week’s show followed be an equally exciting catfight. The move obviously paid off as the segment scored a 1.15 in the quarter hour breakdown.

The next highest quarter was for the main event which did a 1.11.

This is an incredibly good look for the newly reunited original TBP. Even with more line-up changes than Destiny’s Child (okay, maybe not), they are still grabbing ratings three years on. Congrats!

[BHK1978]

Congratulations are in order for Angelina Love and Velvet Sky, as their highly anticipated reunion as The Beautiful People last week scored the highest rated segment on Impact according to ProWrestling.net.

Ang and Vel-Vel, as well as Madison Rayne, all cut extremely strong promos on last week’s show followed be an equally exciting catfight. The move obviously paid off as the segment scored a 1.15 in the quarter hour breakdown.

The next highest quarter was for the main event which did a 1.11.

This is an incredibly good look for the newly reunited original TBP. Even with more line-up changes than Destiny’s Child (okay, maybe not), they are still grabbing ratings three years on. Congrats!

You know I think that Madison has really put on some good promos in recent weeks. I was never really impressed with her before as far as promos go but I think she has gotten a lot better.

[dvdWarrior]

As reported on earlier, next week's edition of TNA Impact (set for September 9) will be preempted by Spike TV. According to representatives of Spike, there will be no new episode of Impact that week in a different timeslot. This means TNA will not be presenting a new episode of Impact just days following the No Surrender PPV on September 5.

TNA has TV tapings scheduled for September 6, 7 and 8 in Orlando.

Source: Wrestling Observer

===


===

TNA IMPACT! will be pre-empted by Spike on September 9.

Sources at the network say that there will be no TNA programming on Spike next week, which will be the week after No Surrender.

Source: PWInsider

Really sucks to hear this. Say what you will about TNA, it's just about the only wrestling show I actually look forward to watching these days.

:(

[Slagaholic]

It's because they'd be going head to head with the NFL season opener. It'd be awesome if TNA said they are postponing the show so they can watch football.

[Hyde Hill]

It's because they'd be going head to head with the NFL season opener. It'd be awesome if TNA said they are postponing the show so they can watch football.

Yeah but what I do not get why not air it on another day or timeslot? It is still on of Spike's highest rated shows. So why not?

[PeterHilton]

Congratulations are in order for Angelina Love and Velvet Sky, as their highly anticipated reunion as The Beautiful People last week scored the highest rated segment on Impact according to ProWrestling.net.

Ang and Vel-Vel, as well as Madison Rayne, all cut extremely strong promos on last week’s show followed be an equally exciting catfight. The move obviously paid off as the segment scored a 1.15 in the quarter hour breakdown.

The next highest quarter was for the main event which did a 1.11.

This is an incredibly good look for the newly reunited original TBP. Even with more line-up changes than Destiny’s Child (okay, maybe not), they are still grabbing ratings three years on. Congrats!

If you're going to quote from another news site, you should probably credit them.

Also, if TBP and the KOs are getting the highest rated segments on Impact, that's not a good sign.

[PeterHilton]

Yeah but what I do not get why not air it on another day or timeslot? It is still on of Spike's highest rated shows. So why not?

Bad taste in their mouth from the Monday move that didn't go so well?

[TracyBrooksFan]

If you're going to quote from another news site, you should probably credit them.

Also, if TBP and the KOs are getting the highest rated segments on Impact, that's not a good sign.

cant u read the name of the site is there.

It a good sign for women wrestling.

[PeterHilton]

cant u read the name of the site is there.

It a good sign for women wrestling.

A. No it isn't. you cited the site that reported the rating. But that blurb (Congratulation are in order blahblahblah) was originally written by a diva news site and sent out to other wrestling news sites.

B. TBP and that segment has as much to do with "women's wrestling" as the Divas do.

In the long run, it means that TNA will see these ratings and spend more and more time with T&A, bikini contests, cat fights, and members of the KO roster who are more recognizable for their imlpants than their in-ring ability.

Since i don't really care about women's wrestling, it doesn't bother me. But for the TNA fans who really really enjoyed the KOs because of workers like Kong, Sarida, Hamada, and that boring chick with the short hair, they probably won't enjoy it so much

[MichiganHero]

A. No it isn't. you cited the site that reported the rating. But that blurb (Congratulation are in order blahblahblah) was originally written by a diva news site and sent out to other wrestling news sites.

B. TBP and that segment has as much to do with "women's wrestling" as the Divas do.

In the long run, it means that TNA will see these ratings and spend more and more time with T&A, bikini contests, cat fights, and members of the KO roster who are more recognizable for their imlpants than their in-ring ability.

Since i don't really care about women's wrestling, it doesn't bother me. But for the TNA fans who really really enjoyed the KOs because of workers like Kong, Sarida, Hamada, and that boring chick with the short hair, they probably won't enjoy it so much

I agree Brother Peter. The Divas and Knock-Outs do as much for women's wrestling as my fighting an elephant with a banana. I kinda wish Remi had his own promotion IRL. I would kick ass and have decent workers to boot not Kelly Kelly, Lacey Von Erich and others that claim to wrestle.

[BHK1978]

If you're going to quote from another news site, you should probably credit them.

Not trying to be funny here, but is this a site rule? If not then why should it matter, it is not like we are working for a newspaper.

[PeterHilton]

Not trying to be funny here, but is this a site rule? If not then why should it matter, it is not like we are working for a newspaper.

It's not a site rule. But as someone who has been a columnist for a couple of web sites, it bothers me that someone would copy what's essentially an entire article and post it without mentioning that they didn't write it or got it from another site or at least put a link.

The rating itself is just hard info that can be found anywhere.

Again...not a rule..just good form. That's why i said "should" :)

[Hyde Hill]

Also note that that quarter hour was the beginning of the Guns match and that it was quarter hour 5 which recently has trended high for TNA and tends to be high/important for all shows seeing as others will have just ended. So I do not see this as a victory for BP yet. If the same segment was put in q2 it would have probably been low again. It is the direction that matters and compared to other quarter hours relative to total rating. The BP just scored an average or maybe little higher rating for that quarter. Could be that the rating started high and went down during the whole segment though.

Quarter hour's really mean very little imho. Too bad minute by minutes don't get published/made public.

[PeterHilton]

Also note that that quarter hour was the beginning of the Guns match and that it was quarter hour 5 which recently has trended high for TNA and tends to be high/important for all shows seeing as others will have just ended. So I do not see this as a victory for BP yet. If the same segment was put in q2 it would have probably been low again. It is the direction that matters and compared to other quarter hours relative to total rating. The BP just scored an average or maybe little higher rating for that quarter. Could be that the rating started high and went down during the whole segment though.

Quarter hour's really mean very little imho. Too bad minute by minutes don't get published/made public.

*I* agree with you. but if you look at the direction of the KO division ever since the final segment of Impact featuring LVE popped that nice rating, someone in creative thinks that the T&A/Diva route is the right direction to go.

[Hyde Hill]

That I do agree on but it popped nice ratings when it was a more serious division as well. But I am repeating myself. I want my serious division back! Ever since Deaner it has gone down down down. At least it still gets time unlike the X guys currently.

[brashleyholland]

It's not a site rule. But as someone who has been a columnist for a couple of web sites, it bothers me that someone would copy what's essentially an entire article and post it without mentioning that they didn't write it or got it from another site or at least put a link.

The rating itself is just hard info that can be found anywhere.

Again...not a rule..just good form. That's why i said "should" :)

Completely agree with this. It does irk me tremendously when I see something copy-pasted onto an MMA NEWZ site or forum and think "Hmm, that looks familiar...oh yes, I wrote it" :-p

The long and short of it is that even if you link back, who needs to click it if the entire article is posted? That's taking money out of my pocket as far as I'm concerned.

I guess it's the nature of the internet though...

[Hyde Hill]

Bad taste in their mouth from the Monday move that didn't go so well?

Yeah but Wednesday and Saturday are still wrestling free aren't they? Or Tuesday post NXT. Ah well too bad no Impact one week.

[jwt13]

I think TNA should try a diffrent night Thursdays are packed full now that football is starting and Jersey Shore which is drawing high ratings

[SaySo]

Source: Poster from Wrestlingforum.com

I did a little digging at previous going up against the NFL Season opener. Any american can probably fill in if its not fair to compare it for some reason. I just post the numbers.

2007 September 6th = 1.02, down from the previous week 1.05

2008 September 4th = 1.03, down from the previous week 1.05

2009 September 10th = 0.93, down from the previous week 0.96.


Its barely a drop. I can understand if this is a bigger game but I still cant see how it would hurt them THAT much.

[PeterHilton]

Source: Poster from Wrestlingforum.com

I did a little digging at previous going up against the NFL Season opener. Any american can probably fill in if its not fair to compare it for some reason. I just post the numbers.

2007 September 6th = 1.02, down from the previous week 1.05

2008 September 4th = 1.03, down from the previous week 1.05

2009 September 10th = 0.93, down from the previous week 0.96.


Its barely a drop. I can understand if this is a bigger game but I still cant see how it would hurt them THAT much.

Interesting. And the Saints-Vikings will be a HUGE and much hyped game, but not any more so than any other season opener imo

Again...maybe TNA isn't on Spike's list of favorites right now. That's all I've got.

[Vladamire Dracos]

Speaking of the KOs, I hear TNA has signed NorCal standout Christina Von Eerie. I could see her end up working with Ink Inc. given her and their look (Mohawk and Tattoos).

[Stennick]

Completely agree with this. It does irk me tremendously when I see something copy-pasted onto an MMA NEWZ site or forum and think "Hmm, that looks familiar...oh yes, I wrote it" :-p

The long and short of it is that even if you link back, who needs to click it if the entire article is posted? That's taking money out of my pocket as far as I'm concerned.

I guess it's the nature of the internet though...

I think you nailed it on the head thats the nature of the internet. I don't agree with people copy and pasting without giving credit but as a message board leader I hate when people say "BIG NEWS" and just post a link. I came to this site and if you're not going to tell me on this site don't tell me at all. I rarely click links just because its a hassle, you click the link, sometimes you have to scroll down to see where its posted, or read a giant column when you only care about one part.

Not too mention there are about zero internet columnists that I follow since really I don't need someone else's opinion on something when I have my own.

That being said as someone who worked hard on something like that I wouldn't want it taken either but as you said its the nature of the internet. Once you put it out there its free for anyone to use any way they wish.

[Jaysin]

Well TNA goes live on October 7th.

Thoughts?

Oh, and that's according to Dixie's tweet.

[Stennick]

So their going live all the time starting Oct 7th?

[Self]

I might be more inclined to watch the show if it was live. Usually by the time Thursday rolls around, I'll have succumbed to the temptation to read spoilers, and the spoilers tend to convince me not to watch. Don't think it'll make the show better, but whatever makes them happy.

[Jaysin]

The exact tweet is:

TNADixie: TNA iMPACT! is going LIVE on 10/7. Remember my tweet about how TNA is going to change forever? Stay tuned.

[TDubRaiders]

I agree with you Self. I would def be more inclined to watch Impact if it was live. I always crack and end up reading spoilers and if what I read doesn't look interesting I usually pass. Hopefully they stick with it.

[Slagaholic]

Tuesday-Thursday-TNA?

[Stennick]

So is she saying that going live is the changing forever? Or is she saying when they go live is when she's going to show what will change forever?

Bah either way I don't care, TNA changes forever every week, twice on Sundays.

[Slagaholic]

Yeah I don't think anyone cares until she finally says "THIS IS THE SURPRISE"

Plus who's she talking to exactly? Most TNA fans don't follow her twitter acct.

[Jaysin]

So is she saying that going live is the changing forever? Or is she saying when they go live is when she's going to show what will change forever?

Bah either way I don't care, TNA changes forever every week, twice on Sundays.

This is the change they've been talking about for a few months now. From what I read earlier on different news sites, they're expecting something big for the first live show that's a surprise.

and to their credit, this is the first time TNA has mentioned changing at all in awhile. Well since they started talking about this a few months ago.

[cappyboy]

I don't know that I would be. Maybe it's because of the Monday night era coloring my judgment. But Thursday seems like a bush league time for a flagship show like Impact. I'd much rather blow it off and catch it on Saturday morning given the opportunity. Not even WCW did their mainline show on Thursdays. Thunder was their second string show while the crown jewel, Nitro, was on Mondays. Midweek is JV. Friday to Monday is the varsity period baby.

I'm inclined to think that getting talked into Thursday night for Impact is part of TNA's problem. A smaller part to be sure. But a part nonetheless. If they had their flagship show on the fringes of the week, then yeah. Thursday's fine. But seeing that Impact is their flagship, the midweek slot doesn't do them any favors.

[PeterHilton]

I don't know that I would be. Maybe it's because of the Monday night era coloring my judgment. But Thursday seems like a bush league time for a flagship show like Impact. I'd much rather blow it off and catch it on Saturday morning given the opportunity. Not even WCW did their mainline show on Thursdays. Thunder was their second string show while the crown jewel, Nitro, was on Mondays. Midweek is JV. Friday to Monday is the varsity period baby.

I'm inclined to think that getting talked into Thursday night for Impact is part of TNA's problem. A smaller part to be sure. But a part nonetheless. If they had their flagship show on the fringes of the week, then yeah. Thursday's fine. But seeing that Impact is their flagship, the midweek slot doesn't do them any favors.

There's honestly no reason to justify that opinion, except personal preference.

Monday is only important in wrestling because WWE had their show on Monday night on USA for years and WCW created Nitro to compete.

But TNA has literally no reason to follow suit, except to appease the people still reminiscing about the MOnday Night Wars.

--They don't film in a large arena so they have no reason to worry about filling the seats in the middle of the week.

--Spike isn't pressuring them to do so.

--They have an established presence and better track record on Thursdays

--They'll have more luck avoiding the NFL

--They clearly arent ready to compete with the E head to head

[sheepy]

It might be just a different era but I always feel fans add something to a live broadcast over and above a taped show.

Think this will be a very good move if true.

[jwt13]

the live monday shows always got higher than the taped monday shows so maybe it will be the case here

[Hyde Hill]

yeah live tends to get better ratings, not by much but some. Due to spoiler avoidance and the intangible better feel to being live. And yeah TNA has talked about 3 changes this year. First the Hogan and Bisch ones which changed the ring, the show format, bullet point promo's and matches, ReAction and changes to Xplosion. Then the Monday Night debacle and return. And now the ones Dixie has been teasing since before Slamiversarry.

[cappyboy]

There's honestly no reason to justify that opinion, except personal preference.

Monday is only important in wrestling because WWE had their show on Monday night on USA for years and WCW created Nitro to compete.

But TNA has literally no reason to follow suit, except to appease the people still reminiscing about the MOnday Night Wars.

--They don't film in a large arena so they have no reason to worry about filling the seats in the middle of the week.

--Spike isn't pressuring them to do so.

--They have an established presence and better track record on Thursdays

--They'll have more luck avoiding the NFL

--They clearly arent ready to compete with the E head to head

Here's the problem. You sound like I'm advocating for the Monday night move that already failed. Well, except for pointing out the established presence on Thursday. Which I grant is a point worthy of consideration. But I'm not suggesting Monday night at all. I'll tell you when in that "varsity window" I put them if it's up to me.

Saturday night. Sure in the fall, they'd have to watch out for the NCAA. But that's just becoming as true on Thursday nights. Heck the way the NCAA's been going in recent years, there's no night that gets you completely out of their way. The NFL wouldn't be an issue except for maybe in December. TV stinks the rest of the year on Saturday night and has for a good decade/and a half. You'd have a greater event feel to your marquee show placing in on the weekend. And besides, you gotta think ahead. At some point, they are going to want to get out of the studio setting and grow the crowds. Using the fact that the studio setting relieves some calendar pressure is rut thinking. If they want to be what they try to project, they'll need to break out of that.

The going live can probably help with that event feeling some. But that alone isn't going to change jack. They need to be on at a time folks will be fired up about. On Thursday night, they'd be trying to create that fire from scratch the way WWE did with Monday night. Problem is WWE created that fire in a much different time and had a much stronger image than TNA has ever had. So they need a time where it would already exist.

That's pretty much Saturday by default. Like you said, they aren't ready to tackle WWE head-on. So that combined with recent history lets out Monday. And Friday as well. Although the "our flagship vs their B team" argument could potentially be one worth considering. Sunday as you mention has the NFL juggernaut. So that leaves Saturday.

[Bigpapa42]

There's honestly no reason to justify that opinion, except personal preference.

Monday is only important in wrestling because WWE had their show on Monday night on USA for years and WCW created Nitro to compete.

But TNA has literally no reason to follow suit, except to appease the people still reminiscing about the MOnday Night Wars.

--They don't film in a large arena so they have no reason to worry about filling the seats in the middle of the week.

--Spike isn't pressuring them to do so.

--They have an established presence and better track record on Thursdays

--They'll have more luck avoiding the NFL

--They clearly arent ready to compete with the E head to head

Actually, I read an article around the time that Impact moved to spike that indicated that it was actually Spike who wanted TNA on Monday nights. No idea if it was true or accurate, but the article basically made the whole move to Monday and "new war" out to be a push by Spike to take down USA on Monday nights. I'll post the article if I can find it....

[Slagaholic]

Varsity window? Do you watch prime time Saturday night programming? That's not where networks put ANY of their ace shows.

[Hyde Hill]

Actually, I read an article around the time that Impact moved to spike that indicated that it was actually Spike who wanted TNA on Monday nights. No idea if it was true or accurate, but the article basically made the whole move to Monday and "new war" out to be a push by Spike to take down USA on Monday nights. I'll post the article if I can find it....

That was Heyman I think. Pointing out it was more Spike vs USA then TNA vs WWE. According to him. I think it was both. Who was the main force pushing for it? Spike or TNA? Don't know and we never will in all likelyhood.

[Hyde Hill]

Here's the problem. You sound like I'm advocating for the Monday night move that already failed. Well, except for pointing out the established presence on Thursday. Which I grant is a point worthy of consideration. But I'm not suggesting Monday night at all. I'll tell you when in that "varsity window" I put them if it's up to me.

Saturday night. Sure in the fall, they'd have to watch out for the NCAA. But that's just becoming as true on Thursday nights. Heck the way the NCAA's been going in recent years, there's no night that gets you completely out of their way. The NFL wouldn't be an issue except for maybe in December. TV stinks the rest of the year on Saturday night and has for a good decade/and a half. You'd have a greater event feel to your marquee show placing in on the weekend. And besides, you gotta think ahead. At some point, they are going to want to get out of the studio setting and grow the crowds. Using the fact that the studio setting relieves some calendar pressure is rut thinking. If they want to be what they try to project, they'll need to break out of that.

The going live can probably help with that event feeling some. But that alone isn't going to change jack. They need to be on at a time folks will be fired up about. On Thursday night, they'd be trying to create that fire from scratch the way WWE did with Monday night. Problem is WWE created that fire in a much different time and had a much stronger image than TNA has ever had. So they need a time where it would already exist.

That's pretty much Saturday by default. Like you said, they aren't ready to tackle WWE head-on. So that combined with recent history lets out Monday. And Friday as well. Although the "our flagship vs their B team" argument could potentially be one worth considering. Sunday as you mention has the NFL juggernaut. So that leaves Saturday.

Isn't Smackdown moving to Tuesday's now when they move to Syfy?

[Stennick]

They target demo males 18-34 right? As males 18-34 how many of you are home on a Saturday night?

I work in television and I can tell you that you can't put a show that is targeted at that demographic on Saturday night. Are you home on Saturday night? Most males 18-34 are not. Are they going to watch it? Sure their going to DVR it.

Again working in advertising for a television company I can tell you that it doesn't matter if you have people watching it via DVR, when you present DVR numbers to the advertising companies you're going to get pennies on the dollar of what you're getting for those watching it live.

So sure you can put it on Saturday night and fans are still going to DVR it but Spike is going to get zero money in return for placing one of their highest rated shows on a Saturday night.

Its about making money and Monday thru Thursday and then Sunday are your money making days. Again I work in television and I can tell you that the reason shows are on the days they are on is completely to due with advertising revenue and nothing to do with "varsity" or "big time" or "wars".

Spike wanted to chip away at USA's strangehold on all of cable and they wanted to start with wrestling. USA and FX are the beasts of television right now with countless good shows drawing big numbers. Spike wanted to take the easy route rather than producing grade A original programming to compete with Psych, Burn Notice, White Collar, Sons of Anarchy, Its Always Sunny, Rescue Me, etc.

[Hyde Hill]

BTW being a non American native what is the difference between network and cable? Or are they interchangeable? Also when I see prime time averages they are quite low when top shows are actually tend to get much higher ratings how come? Also is stuff like HBO etc counted in?

I get kinda confused, maybe me reading too much into it or the sites reporting on stuff like that confusing me.

[TDubRaiders]

No Hyde Smackdown is starting Oct 1st which is a Friday. There are reports that NXT will finish up by then and possibly become an online show. I wish Smackdown was on Tuesday though so I could actually catch it but anyway yeah I'm getting pretty tired of Dixie saying TNA is going to change forever. She failed miserably to get Paul Heyman so now she's trying to do whatever she can to make up another surprise.

I don't know if anyone agrees with me but I was really enjoying TNA before Hogan and Eric came on board. I'm in no way blaming Hogan or Eric for anything but I was really enjoying the few months before Eric and Hogan came along.

[Stennick]

Network is television that you get for "Free" here it entails ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and The CW. My T.V was involved for a while but their mostly syndicated television which means their a station that has no original programming of their own they just show others re runs.

These are stations that anyone with an antenna or now days a coverter box can get for free.

Cable is television you pay for. Depending on what you pay for you get different channels. Your basic cable channels are just that. Their basically the same channels every cable television provider or Sattelite company is going to give you. Its their lowest price and gives you Spike T.V, USA, ESPN, TBS, TNT, etc. As you move up in packages you'll get things like the Women's Channel, several different sports and movie packages. etc.

Between 70-80 percent of people with television sets have some form of cable television.

However ratings are based on viewers versus available viewers. With cable television being available to less homes their ratings can never match what actual network television ratings are (most of the time) due to network televisions reaching an extra 30 percent of homes.

Its kind of complicated since to the best of my understanding their are roughly a dozen British channels. Maybe I'm wrong but we have access to easily 500+ channels here. Now granted some of that is Fox Sports Midwest and Fox Sports East but I think you get the idea.

[Stennick]

No Hyde Smackdown is starting Oct 1st which is a Friday. There are reports that NXT will finish up by then and possibly become an online show. I wish Smackdown was on Tuesday though so I could actually catch it but anyway yeah I'm getting pretty tired of Dixie saying TNA is going to change forever. She failed miserably to get Paul Heyman so now she's trying to do whatever she can to make up another surprise.

I don't know if anyone agrees with me but I was really enjoying TNA before Hogan and Eric came on board. I'm in no way blaming Hogan or Eric for anything but I was really enjoying the few months before Eric and Hogan came along.

I was not enjoying it. AJ Styles as a face is a boring boring champion. He's more boring than Rob Van Dam as the World Champion. He's bland, colorless and cannot sell a pay per view. Christopher Daniels is really good on the mic but the problem is they have changed his gimmick COUNTLESS times over the years in TNA. From XXX, to being weird and wearing the face paint, to just being a c0cky S.O.B, to whatever else. Joe is the same way. He's just not that entertaining on the mic. So putting two guys that aren't that entertaining on the mic into a feud with a guy that gets way limited mic time compared to others just wasn't doing it for me in the main event.

I loved the Angle/Wolfe storyline and that was about it.

TNA for me hit a peak from the month before Lockdown so the start of March through RIGHT before ECW came back to TNA. They had a solid four month run where they were better than the WWE week in and week out.

[Slagaholic]

As bad as EV2.0 has been, I expected much much worse. Right now I'm just looking towards Bound For Glory. I really hope they put Pope over Angle.

[TDubRaiders]

I get what your saying Stennick. Looking back now I actually agree with you. I've been enjoying TNA for awhile and well I was a huge ECW fan I just wish people would let it die. Im a huge Joe and Daniels fan so maybe thats why I enjoyed it last year.:p

I do agree though that TNA had been putting on some damn good shows before the whole EV2 trash started. I like the direction there going now with certain programs except for the EV2 thing. I loved the Beer Money and MMG feud and can't wait to see MMG vs London Calling. I was always hoping Desmond would team with Magnus but didn't expect Desmond to be in a team after he got off to such a hot start.

There are obvious things in TNA I don't like, one being EV2 and the second being the whole JJ, Nash and Sting storyline. The only other gripe with TNA is the lack of an X-division but other than that I'm pretty happy with TNA overall.

Also Stennick I agree with you AJ was semi boring as TNA champ because they booked him pretty poorely. I also hate RVD so maybe I'm biased but I think AJ has become a damn good heel and I actually look forward to his promos now when before...not so much..haha

[Hyde Hill]

No Hyde Smackdown is starting Oct 1st which is a Friday. There are reports that NXT will finish up by then and possibly become an online show. I wish Smackdown was on Tuesday though so I could actually catch it but anyway yeah I'm getting pretty tired of Dixie saying TNA is going to change forever. She failed miserably to get Paul Heyman so now she's trying to do whatever she can to make up another surprise.

I don't know if anyone agrees with me but I was really enjoying TNA before Hogan and Eric came on board. I'm in no way blaming Hogan or Eric for anything but I was really enjoying the few months before Eric and Hogan came along.

Ehm maybe the change was not Heyman? Maybe they just wanted him for the ECW stuff and as a part of creative? You are stating rumours as solid facts here.

And yeah I liked TNA pre Bisch and Hogan. Disliked big parts but liked other changes till they moved back to Thursday. After that loved it till EV2. Now its decent/good but not great.

[TDubRaiders]

Very true Hyde theres no truth to the whole Heyman rumors...sadly I want him in TNA bad.:D

I just hope for the sake of TNA that they continue to grow and become a very solid #2 promotion. It's just plain good for wrestling fans and I think it will help wrestling to grow if there are two very good products out there.

I've always enjoyed TNA since prob around 2004. I stopped watching wrestling right after the terrible invasion storyline IMO obviously and didn't watch wrestling until I caught a TNA show on PPV one time when I read something about them online. I tend to disagree with a lot of stuff they do but I just can't stop watching for some weird reason. haha.

[Stennick]

Well Heyman himself confirmed he had atleast two different talks with Dixie herself about coming into the company but they wouldn't meet his demands so I wouldn't say thats rumor unless I'm mis understanding.

[Hyde Hill]

No he had the talks but its just rumour that him coming in is the change she was talking about. Plus I do not think Spike would have to be on board with that. And given heyman's self stated demands 10 percent of the company and full creative, roster and marketing control I would not see her not signing him a failure on her part. If TNA has run out of other options and is in deep red ink then yeah otherwise too steep a price imo.

[Stennick]

I agree that Heyman isn't worth his demands. Heyman's track record for me isn't secure enough to give him full creative control of anything. He has not proven he can book a national promotion in the way it needs to be booked. Smackdwon was a fun run but it lasted less than a year and I think the last time I looked it up Smackdown had no large increase in their ratings from the previous regime.

[Bigpapa42]

I don't think Heyman is worth what he is asking. I also don't think he's likely to be the "savior" of TNA. He could do some good things, but I doubt he would take them to where they want to get to.... because I don't think they are realistic about their long-term goals.

At the same time, I have no issue with Heyman asking for what he's stated he did. I don't think of it as a money grab (though it may have been) but as him protecting himself. What is the point of going into a situation to be the "savior" and allowing yourself to get saddled with unreasonable demands and expectations? Getting the power to make major changes - and to ensure he keeps that power - only makes sense.

[The Final Countdown]

"You built this house, and this is a house full of people who think you really suck!"

Bravo, Tommy. :rolleyes: This EV2 stuff is irritating me more and more by the week.

[TDubRaiders]

"You built this house, and this is a house full of people who think you really suck!"

Bravo, Tommy. :rolleyes: This EV2 stuff is irritating me more and more by the week.

Haha man you beat me to it. I'm so tired of Tommy Dreamer. He's incredibly annoying and he's making the EV2 stuff an absolute joke. Every promo he does comes off so cheesy and corny and it just doesn't work anymore. AJ was very good on the mic. It's sad but I absolutely enjoy when Flair just destroys EV2 in his promo's because he truly does hate what the old ECW was. I'm also kind of intrigued by what "Them" is at BFG. Hopefully it's good

[Hyde Hill]

I nailed Janice sign. Lolz.

[ampulator]

A lot of you misunderstand what Paul Heyman is doing. He's intentionally pricing himself out of a job. He only wants it if it meets HIS requirements.

That way, he can take almost all the blame if it fails. But if he succeeds, he takes almost all the credit. It's zero-sum game, as he sees it.

[Hyde Hill]

BTW is it me or did they lower the volume of entrances etc and up the volume from the crowd?

[Stennick]

I don't think Heyman is worth what he is asking. I also don't think he's likely to be the "savior" of TNA. He could do some good things, but I doubt he would take them to where they want to get to.... because I don't think they are realistic about their long-term goals.

At the same time, I have no issue with Heyman asking for what he's stated he did. I don't think of it as a money grab (though it may have been) but as him protecting himself. What is the point of going into a situation to be the "savior" and allowing yourself to get saddled with unreasonable demands and expectations? Getting the power to make major changes - and to ensure he keeps that power - only makes sense.

I liken it to Mike Shannahan taking over as the Skins Head Coach/GM you have this franchise that wants to become the best in their field so you bring in a guy that has proven he can do that (not really in Heyman's case) you give him everything he asks for, you sit back and you let him do his job and hope you made the right choice and it doesn't set the program back.

Thats essentially what they would have been doing but unfortuntley in pro wrestling if you look at head bookers as head coaches none of them have shown they have sustained success in turning a franchise around in the 21st century. The only guy out there that can say he's brought two companies to the top of the mountain from the bottom is Vince McMahon (80's, and again in the late ninties). Just like in sports some of that is skill and some of that is right place right time.

Head Bookers need that once in a lifetime talent to truly change the way business is done and head coaches need that once in a life time talent as well.

I guess I'm saying I have no problem with what Heyman asked for given that all of the responsibility of pass or fail was falling on his shoulders but I also don't blame TNA for declining the offer.

[ampulator]

Who blames TNA for declining the offer? Heyman's track record isn't one of sustained success. He's shown he can BUILD something, but he's unable to keep it afloat.

Besides, what does Heyman have to offer new creatively today? It's not Hardcore, because he's had said that's in the past. Modern-style wrestling? He will be in a long line of promoters following the Modern style, hardly an innovator. MMA-style wrestling? Would that even work?

As it stands Heyman isn't interested enough.

[TDubRaiders]

BTW is it me or did they lower the volume of entrances etc and up the volume from the crowd?

Yeah it def seems like that's what they did. I was wondering if it was just my TV because I was having a hard time hearing the entrances.

[Jaysin]

So I got my order from ShopTNA today. The shipping was pretty fast considering it was free.

These shirts are way higher quality then they look online. Especially the Pope shirt. Their shirt quality as really gone up since I bought a Sting shirt a few years ago.

[Hyde Hill]

Also what was with all the stuff from previous and this weeks reaction? One of the reason's I hate the E is all their repeats from other content. If I wan't to see ReAction I will watch that plus they should have made it clearer it was from ReAction if the intent was to promote that show. Still Neal sounded real in that interview, too bad I don't care about him.

[Bigpapa42]

A lot of you misunderstand what Paul Heyman is doing. He's intentionally pricing himself out of a job. He only wants it if it meets HIS requirements.

That way, he can take almost all the blame if it fails. But if he succeeds, he takes almost all the credit. It's zero-sum game, as he sees it.

That's pretty much exactly what I think he's doing. He doesn't seem to have much interest in returning to wrestling, at least based on the 90-minute MMA Hour interview he recently did. So he's making it worth his while. But I also think he's making the demands to protect himself in case he does get it - it ensures he has a chance to succeed.

[Jaysin]

I'm confused. They said RVD is talking on next week's Impact, but I thought there was no Impact next week?

[Hyde Hill]

They finished the tape before Spike made the decision apparently they didn't think to edit it.

[Jaysin]

I kind of wish this Jesse segment was on Impact. It's heartwrenching.

[The Final Countdown]

I kind of wish this Jesse segment was on Impact. It's heartwrenching.
It's more interesting than just about anything on Impact in months. And I've never given a damn about him or Ink Inc.

[Hyde Hill]

I kind of wish this Jesse segment was on Impact. It's heartwrenching.

Wasn't a large part of it on Impact though? Or was that just my version?

[Hyde Hill]

Also what was with all the stuff from previous and this weeks reaction? One of the reason's I hate the E is all their repeats from other content. If I wan't to see ReAction I will watch that plus they should have made it clearer it was from ReAction if the intent was to promote that show. Still Neal sounded real in that interview, too bad I don't care about him.

Reading from 411 mania apparently my version had some reaction stuff in it which the live air did not have so ignore my comments on that.

Richards beating Abyss? Really? Even if it was lucky it shouldn't happen.

Rhino looked good. The rest of EV2 (Dreamer, Sabu) was made to look decent which is a credit to Fourtune.

[Hyde Hill]

Seems they replaced their regular show with a bound for glory online kickoff show. Dixie will be doing a Q and A and exclusive interviews with wrestlers.

http://www.tnawrestling.com/news/item/2148-thursday-bound-for-glory-kickoff-show

[Hyde Hill]

Overall a decent/mediocre show. Still they did build all the ppv matches pretty well. Still can't wait for EV2 and Nash/Sting/Jarrett stuff to just go away! And Hogan and Flair going back to supporting characters. Liked that this week how Flair was supporting Fourtune and not hogging the limelight.

[Moe Hunter]

I don't get the distrust for Heyman. He doesn't need to bring some in-ring innovation to be successful. He has proven time and again that he has a solid booking base - stories that make sense, giving the mic to the right guys for the right reasons. Building characters that people should give a crap about, and not forgetting about them a few weeks later.

IMO he has the ability to fill all the holes in TNA's booking, if he's allowed to run with his plans. If they don't give him full control, they won't get full results.

[Stennick]

Moe what would be time and time again? ECW and Smackdown which he booked for less than a year?

In ECW he booked heavily around a hardcore product, swearing, sexual overtones, violence, blood, carnage, he had no sponsers, no rules, he was the worldest biggest backyard promotion in a lot of ways content included. He obviously can not and I'm sure would not book that way (I hope) in 2010. As Vince said in his DVD Pauls product appealed to a very small base of people. He wasn't and couldn't gain the appeal of the masses using the product he was.

Reminds me of Jay Z's The Takeover "I sampled your flow, you made it a hot 16 I made it a song". Or however the line goes. It means yeah I jacked your style becuase you weren't using it right. You had limited ability with it, I tweaked it and it appealed to the masses. That is what the Attitude era was. Vince and Vince essentially outbooked Heyman. As horrible as it is to hear Russo and Mcmahon took Heyman's style, toned it down, adjusted it and presented WWF Attitude. Paul did some pretty good booking there but a LOT of it centered around that hardcore, rebellious style. The guy had a national t.v deal and say what you will but I found it every week. The guy showed up with his entire promotion on RAW, he was in every wrestling magazine in the world and he was on national television for a year and two months. It took less than that for Vince to climb out of the gutter and reclaim first place and it took less than that for WCW's finger poke of doom into oblivion. What I'm saying is 14 months is enough time to be successful. Paul has blamed TNN however at the same time I believe it was Paul for the first time as head booker being told "we won't allow that on our television screen". He would face that and maybe even more now days with the different activist groups.

He was head booker of Smackdown for less than a year, in that year ratings did not improve significantly, house show attendances didn't shoot up. Essentially there was no statistical improvement over the regime before him or the regime after him.

Paul was a good booker I'm not saying he isn't but what I am saying is that he never proved he could book a national promotion with a television deal, sponsors and most importantly Paul has never proven he can have a boss. Its because of those things that I don't think Paul is half the booker he's made out to be. ECW died at essentially its success pinicale. It died a year after getting national television so there wasn't that time that would be needed for him to run out his welcome the way Bischoff, Russo and others have done. His Smackdown was just enough time to place the Smackdown Six into the main event it wasn't near enough time to see where he would have went with those stories.

Pro Wrestling is all about protecting your image or your gimmick. Pauls image is that of a creative guru who can make water into whine. I think in part he demands so much to go back because maybe he knows those demands won't be met. In my line of work sometimes we "out bid" ourselves. We know we can't do the job they want us to but business wise it doesn't make sense to say "I can't" so you charge more than what the going rate is, they go elsewhere and you're not known as the guy or company that couldn't.

I know some people have strong feelings about Paul but when you look at his body of work it just doesn't lend itself to a large national promotion thats trying to increase its visibility. If anything Paul might be better suited for ROH, he seems to fit that us against the world mentality and I'm sure he could get away with more on HDnet than he ever could "real" cable.

[Hyde Hill]

Also to ad on that Paul's speciality is in creating Brand Identity and not brand awareness or (monetary) engagement, Paul was great in promoting ECW being bigger then it actually was which was actually the downfall of the company if you look at it objectively he overexpanded too fast and was banking too much on future income, meaning if I build it they will come, well people did come but not enough by a long shot and when they came they did not spend enough. Yes TNA needs work on it's identity but it's main problem is still awareness. Maybe once the awareness is at a sufficient level TNA could/should switch more to identity but right now that is a secondary focus imho. And for someone who is an identity guru to come in and want 10 percent of your business when identity is a secondary priority is just a no no. Heyman saying TNA was not ready for him is a good image protection line but just bs. He just does not want to do wrestling period and his skill set does not match TNA's current priorities.

[Self]

Skipped Impact because the spoilers didn't impress me. Watching Reaction right now, and I still love the style of the show. It's more low-key, relaxed, 'real'. The characters aren't trying to pop the crowd with catchphrases and shouty wrestling promos, but instead explaining their issues in a clear manner. It really floats my boat.


Liked the Jesse Neal interview. Didn't like a 'dramatic' music behind it. Made it seem really fake when talking about "his rage".
How stoned is Brian Kendrick? I have no idea why he's in EV2.0, but he sounds so completely off his rocker that it probably makes sense to him.
I'm so sick of Abyss it's not even funny any more. I can usually find something to like in everyone in wrestling, but I really don't like him.
I have no idea who the babyfaces are supposed to be in the beautiful people storyline, but I know who is on each side, and Madison is really doing it for me right now. She seemed really, really happy. Apparently I like that.
I don't like the name, but London's Brawling are definitely in the running for being my favourite tag team right now. They are handsome devils.


I might watch this PPV. This Reaction show explained the matches, and a few (Angle/Jeff, Pope/Anderson, MCMG/LB) have me interested.

[PeterHilton]

That's pretty much Saturday by default. Like you said, they aren't ready to tackle WWE head-on. So that combined with recent history lets out Monday. And Friday as well. Although the "our flagship vs their B team" argument could potentially be one worth considering. Sunday as you mention has the NFL juggernaut. So that leaves Saturday.

:confused:

Varsity window? Do you watch prime time Saturday night programming? That's not where networks put ANY of their ace shows.

What slag said...no one in their right mind would put their top show on Saturday night.

[juggaloninjalee]

WCW had their main show on Saturdays... it turned into a jobber show basically because of low ratings and the birth of Nitro.

[PeterHilton]

WCW had their main show on Saturdays... it turned into a jobber show basically because of low ratings and the birth of Nitro.

different era...WWF also had a syndicated show that ran mostly on Saturday in most parts of the country..

But yeah, eventually it became a jobber show because it was waste of time to throw good programming on when no one watches.

Thats why SNME is basically a throw-away show now

[Hyde Hill]

What could make sense if having a post cartoons noon, the other 'traditional' wrestling slot, pg show for TNA to hook the kiddies who can then 'graduate' to Impact so to speak. Either Xplosion or a PG edit of Impact. Saturday night is a bad bad place though.

[sabataged]

Moe what would be time and time again? ECW and Smackdown which he booked for less than a year?

In ECW he booked heavily around a hardcore product, swearing, sexual overtones, violence, blood, carnage, he had no sponsers, no rules, he was the worldest biggest backyard promotion in a lot of ways content included. He obviously can not and I'm sure would not book that way (I hope) in 2010. As Vince said in his DVD Pauls product appealed to a very small base of people. He wasn't and couldn't gain the appeal of the masses using the product he was.

Reminds me of Jay Z's The Takeover "I sampled your flow, you made it a hot 16 I made it a song". Or however the line goes. It means yeah I jacked your style becuase you weren't using it right. You had limited ability with it, I tweaked it and it appealed to the masses. That is what the Attitude era was. Vince and Vince essentially outbooked Heyman. As horrible as it is to hear Russo and Mcmahon took Heyman's style, toned it down, adjusted it and presented WWF Attitude. Paul did some pretty good booking there but a LOT of it centered around that hardcore, rebellious style. The guy had a national t.v deal and say what you will but I found it every week. The guy showed up with his entire promotion on RAW, he was in every wrestling magazine in the world and he was on national television for a year and two months. It took less than that for Vince to climb out of the gutter and reclaim first place and it took less than that for WCW's finger poke of doom into oblivion. What I'm saying is 14 months is enough time to be successful. Paul has blamed TNN however at the same time I believe it was Paul for the first time as head booker being told "we won't allow that on our television screen". He would face that and maybe even more now days with the different activist groups.

He was head booker of Smackdown for less than a year, in that year ratings did not improve significantly, house show attendances didn't shoot up. Essentially there was no statistical improvement over the regime before him or the regime after him.

Paul was a good booker I'm not saying he isn't but what I am saying is that he never proved he could book a national promotion with a television deal, sponsors and most importantly Paul has never proven he can have a boss. Its because of those things that I don't think Paul is half the booker he's made out to be. ECW died at essentially its success pinicale. It died a year after getting national television so there wasn't that time that would be needed for him to run out his welcome the way Bischoff, Russo and others have done. His Smackdown was just enough time to place the Smackdown Six into the main event it wasn't near enough time to see where he would have went with those stories.

Pro Wrestling is all about protecting your image or your gimmick. Pauls image is that of a creative guru who can make water into whine. I think in part he demands so much to go back because maybe he knows those demands won't be met. In my line of work sometimes we "out bid" ourselves. We know we can't do the job they want us to but business wise it doesn't make sense to say "I can't" so you charge more than what the going rate is, they go elsewhere and you're not known as the guy or company that couldn't.

I know some people have strong feelings about Paul but when you look at his body of work it just doesn't lend itself to a large national promotion thats trying to increase its visibility. If anything Paul might be better suited for ROH, he seems to fit that us against the world mentality and I'm sure he could get away with more on HDnet than he ever could "real" cable.

I generally take you for a complete idiot but that was a well thought out post actually and for once I agree 100%

[Stennick]

I generally take you for a complete idiot but that was a well thought out post actually and for once I agree 100%

Don't hate that I've finished 16 and a third novels and have a family that was on a professional volleyball practice team and I successfully own 11 multi million dollar businesses. :)

[MichiganHero]

Don't hate that I've finished 16 and a third novels and have a family that was on a professional volleyball practice team and I successfully own 11 multi million dollar businesses. :)

Stennick if this is true, I want to marry you and have your children. And I'm a male!

[Self]

I call Mistress!

You heard me. I called it!

[MichiganHero]

I call Mistress!

You heard me. I called it!

I call hitting you with a shoe when I find out!

[Stennick]

Its as true as those girls you call on the 900 numbers looking like the girls on the commercials, its as true as anything else on the internet my good friends :D

[MichiganHero]

Its as true as those girls you call on the 900 numbers looking like the girls on the commercials, its as true as anything else on the internet my good friends :D

:eek:
You mean. Your not rich. C'mon Self, lets go and internet pimp elsewhere.

[BHK1978]

Don't hate that I've finished 16 and a third novels and have a family that was on a professional volleyball practice team and I successfully own 11 multi million dollar businesses. :)

All I have to say is: :D

[cappyboy]

Varsity window? Do you watch prime time Saturday night programming? That's not where networks put ANY of their ace shows.

Dude, you're over-reaching. Who cares what works for sitcoms or detective shows or any other genre? We're talking wrestling. Other than Impact, name for me one, ONE, mainline wrestling show for any promotion that had pretensions of being a serious player that ran midweek. Unless you stretch back to the death throes of the territories, you can't do it. The closest examples would be Thunder and Smackdown at the beginning of its run. Both technically A shows in TEW terms but both decidedly support shows to the big boy shows that were Nitro and RAW respectively.

Every mainline show for a promotion that's Mattered or aspired to Matter have been on the fringes of the week. And even with the modern hot spot of Monday night, that came into being because WWE made it so. And they had the example of Monday Night Football to point the way. TNA's nowhere near that stature, never has been and doesn't have the prior trailblazer to show them the way that the E did with RAW. If they want what they claim they want, they need to get to the fringes of the week. "The varsity window", if you will. Otherwise they are just a bunch of posers. Posers I'll may well watch if they behave consistently. But posers nonetheless.

Plus, drifting in and out of WWE so sporadiacally, I was unaware that Smackdown was moving. If Smackdown's moving out, that negates my condemnation of Friday as a possible varsity slot. Not sure that dissuades me any that Saturday night's the better slot. Friday night hasn't had the same "fight night" appeal it used to have since boxing marginalized itself. But either way would create more of an event atmosphere than Thursday.

[Stennick]

Again Cappy you're kind of not understanding exactly how television works. TNA doesn't get to PICK when they air their show (for the most part), Spike puts it where they would make the most money at it.

Television is completely reliant on advertising which is mostly reliant on television ratings. They get better television ratings on a Thursday for their demographic than they would on a Saturday when their demographic are out playing beer pong and having relations with women. They may DVR it but Spike doesn't get hardly any advertising money for DVR numbers not compared to what they get when people are watching it live.

The goal is to put TNA into a slot and then follow it with a show you want to do well. This is how Ultimate Fighter got started if you remember. It would come on directly after TNA hooking that audience as well as their own audience drawing huge successful ratings (by Spike's standards) and launching several seasons of that television show which I believe they have now branched out and made into its own slot so it could do the same for something else while putting Deadliest Warrior on after TNA.

I'm not sure what you're comparing TNA to. You said you can't base it on a sitcom well even if you're basing it on sports remember that the NFL is having their OPENING night their first ever game of the season on a Thursday. Thursday is a valuable time for television shows it always has been, wasn't Seinfield on Thursdays? Football is on thursdays (increasingly so in the latter years), UFC was on Thursdays. Smackdown was very much an A show on Thursdays didn't their first ever broadcast have The Rock vs. Triple H with Shawn Michaels as guest referee?

My point is you obviously can view things how you would like but saying that something isn't big time just because its not on Monday or Friday is kind of strange, out of the box thinking that isn't followed by anyone in the television I've ever met and since I work in it I've met a lot of people involved in it :D

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Saturday is a terrible spot for TNA . As has been said the target demographic will be out that night and they will do poorer numbers. Why do you think SD is aimed so heavily at kids?(Long before Raw became kid oriented) Its because on Fridays and Saturdays the 15-34 demo will largely be out and about.

[Moe Hunter]

I don't expect a revolution from Heyman. Just solid booking that makes sense. It's something TNA lacks, and something Heyman can do. All the question of whether he can set the wrestling world on fire, or run a company, doesn't matter to me. There's so much talent in TNA and I just want to be able to watch it regularly without having to skip over hours of Hogan or Jarrett or Abyss. Without all the rapid-fire and impactless turns. Without criminally short matches that go nowhere.

IMO Awareness won't do anything if the product is subpar. Book well, then invite people over.

[Hyde Hill]

Apart from production the product is at least at the quality level of the E so awareness first imho. In the end it is still wrestling. Once average people think wrestling and think wwe and tna, then you can focus on making them chose between the two by being different.

As far as the 'old' guys go, as long as TNA is laterally, meaning other countries, and awareness expanding they need established big names on the payroll once that is done to a sufficient degree they should focus more on Identity and creating brand names.

Awareness is not inviting people over. Awareness is making sure people know you exist at all.

[Hyde Hill]

Ok let's talk something more basic for a change again and talk roster. I was wondering what people on her would think off this roster and what roster they would make themselves using the same format. Plus we are only talking on screen characters and perception ( why Jarrett is in that category as he is perceived as being "old").

Option A:

Main Eventer 6:

AJ Styles
Samoa Joe
Daniels
Angle
RVD
J. Hardy

Uppermid 6:

Wolf
Anderson
Pope
Abyss
Morgan
Monty Brown

X Division 6:

Kaz
Lethal
Young
P.Williams
Dutt
Aries

Tag Team 6:

Shelly and Sabin MCMG
Roode and Storm Beer Money
D. Williams and Magnus British Invasion
Homicide and Hernandez LAX
Kendrick and London Hooliganz
Max and Jeremy Buck Generation Me

Female 10:

Kong
Flash
Love
Skye
Sarita
Wilde
Hamada
Daffney
ODB
Roxxi

Legend/Occasional 5:

Hogan
Flair
Sting
Foley
Jarrett

Jobbers 5:

X: Red
Regular: Rhino
Tag: Neal and Moore Ink Inc (Also regular and X)
Female: Tara

Commentators 2:

Tenay
Tazz

Backstage 2:

Borash ( Also ring announcer)
Hemme

Ref 4:

Posey
Thomas
"Slick" Johnson
Tucker

Authority 1:

Bischoff

Ring Girl 1:

So Cal Val

This would mean:

In: Daniels, Brown, P Williams, Dutt, Aries, London, Homicide, Kong, Flash, ODB, Roxxi.

Out: Jordon, Terry, Von Erich, Rayne, Chelsea, Tessmacher, Shark Boy, Kiyoshi/Suicide, Okada, Eckos, Bayless, Reid Flair, Nash, Dixie (as on screen character), Raven, Richards, Dreamer (as on screen character), J Hart, E and B Hebner, (Tomko), (3D), (Sabu), (FBI), (Sandman).

As you can see this version is heavily TNA "Original" influenced and structured around the idea of at least 6 competitors per belt. The women have some more as they are a totally separate division. I would drop the women tag belt though. This roster is purely personal preference and not fully focused on what would possibly be best for TNA so please take account of that in your comments and maybe in the roster you would make.

When coming up with your own roster please be realistic. So please no Stone Cold, Rock, Lesnar, HBK, Goldberg and preferably (,but not a rule,) no Jericho, Ross, Batista or people currently under WWE talent contract which is not running out.

I would be interested in hearing your comments and seeing your rosters.

Easy copy paste:

Main Event 6:

Uppermid 6:

X Division 6:

Tag 6:

Women 10:

Legend/Occasional 5:

Jobbers 5:

X:
Reg:
Tag:
Female:

Commentators 2:

Backstage 2:

Referee 4:

Authority 1:

Ring Girl 1:

[TDubRaiders]

I like this and I'll play along

Main Event 6:
Kurt Angle
D'Angelo Dinero
Ken Anderson
Jeff Hardy
AJ Styles
Samoa Joe

Uppermid 6:
Kazarian
Morgan
Abyss
Daniels
Austin Aries
Carlito

X Division 6:
Sonjay Dutt
Petey Williams
Douglas Williams
Jay Lethal
Eric Young
Shannon Moore

Tag 6:
MMG
Beer Money
London Brawling
Generation Me
LAX
Paul London and Brian Kendrick

Women 10:
Kong
Flash
Rayne
Sky
Love
Sarita
Hamada
Sara Del Rey
Wilde
Roxxi

Legend/Occasional 5:
Foley
Jarrett
Nash
Flair
Sting

Jobbers 5:

X: Amazing Red
Reg: Rhino
Tag: Team 3D
Female: Lacey

Commentators 2:
Taz
Tenay

Backstage 2:
Borash
Hemme

Referee 4:
Slick
Andrew Thomas
Mike Posey
Jamie Tucker

Authority 1:
nobody

Ring Girl 1:
So Cal Val



So I pretty much got rid of Hogan, Eric B, EV2 (except for Rhino), RVD and a few others.

My reason behind getting rid of the those guys is simply because I don't like them at all. Was never a huge Hogan fan he's not as big a deal as he used to be and Eric B hasn't really done anything really since early WCW. EV2 I can't stand so it was easy to get rid of them. Except for Stevie who I love and Raven who I'm a huge fan of but they don't bring too much to the table anymore.

I think adding Kong and Flash back to the Womens division is strong along with Sara Del Rey would make it a damn good division.

I like the X division with Petey and Dutt coming back. I put Shannon Moore in there because without Moore, Hardy would be a little baby and since Hardy sells ya gotta keep him.

The tag division would be real strong with a returning LAX, and adding London to team with Kendrick rounds out the tag division quite well.

The upper midcarders are strong I think with good workers and talkers. I originally had Roderick Strong where Carlito was but Strong is mega bland and Carlito and Aries feud would be great.

The Main Eventers is a damn good group and getting rid of RVD is a must because he's a joke to me and is way too full of himself.


Very much enjoyed making this list Hyde and would love to see what you think of my list.

[Hyde Hill]

I personally like RVD as an on screen character, didn't like his comments on TNA either, and don't mind Hogan as a support character and like Bisch as an on screen GM and think he has done good stuff production wise for TNA. I seriously thought about Del Ray and Rayne but in the end my loyalty to the original KO's and my love for zombie hot won out hehe, same reason James, yes TNA original but not perceived as such, and Katie Lea aren't on there.

For the rest I would totally dig that roster. And why no love for the Alpha Male Monty Brown? Promo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEqEas9hUAI remember this was off the hip as it was to fill time after a fire in the Impact Zone during a live ppv.

Glad you liked the format though. If more people submit theirs we could end with having a vote, where you cannot vote for your own off course. Also thought it would make for a fun and easy break after all the "business" discussions.

[TDubRaiders]

I love me some Monty Brown trust me but I just assumed that because he really isn't around wrestling right now I would leave him off the list but I loved him back in the day. The Pounce was sweet and I enjoyed the stuff he did with Christian.

I don't know if it's just me but I've never ever liked RVD. Just something about him. I can't even really explain it, it's incredibly weird but I just dislike him. In ECW, Raven was always my favorite and I enjoyed Taz, Mike Awesome and Masato Tanaka. And I loved Rhino at the end of ECW when he was the champ.


Edit: Oh and I've always hated Hogan...just thought I'd throw that out there haha

[Hyde Hill]

Fair enough on both accounts. Come on other people I know you have ideas!

[Self]

Main Event (6)
There's a lack of 'originals' but I like the guys they've got on top right now Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam, Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles, The Pope, Samoa Joe. I'd put the title on Pope, who seems like the freshest option.

Uppermid (6)
Right... who wouldn't I fire? Orlando Jordan, Mr Anderson, Matt Morgan, Hernandez, Rob Terry... um... I don't see the need to bring someone new in at this level, so I'm left with a tough decision. Whose job do I save? Abyss I guess, because there's value in beating the blubbering sycophant.

X Division (6)
The X-Division needs an adrenaline shot somewhere. Start with their current crop Doug Williams, Kazarian, Amazing Red, Jay Lethal, Shark Boy. Finally, I am a big fan of BxB Hulk. Love the entrance. Love the look. I think he could reignite interest in the X-Division. I'd Goldberg-push him through the X-Division, create a new, fresh, dominant champion, and raise the value of the X-Title.

Tag (6)
I like the tag team division. Beer Money, Motor City Machine Guns, London's Brawling, Generation Me are all great teams. I still see value in Team 3D. Then I'll bring in The World's Greatest Tag Team (Haas & Benjamin) to slot in just below Beer Money and MCMG in the pecking order.

Women (10)
First off, I think 10 women is overkill. What I think the division needs most is a strong babyface, so I'd bring in Mickie James. Typically I prefer making my own stars, but there's such a hole in the knockout division, and she fills it perfectly. Madison Rayne, Tara, Angelina Love, Velvet Skye, Sarita, Hamada, Taylor Wilde brings it to 8... um... I guess I'll go with Awesome Kong and Sara Del Ray.

Legend/Occasional (5)
I don't think you need 5. Ric Flair, Mick Foley, Sting... That'll do. It's good to have a couple, but how many extra fans is Kevin Nash going to bring in that the above 3 wouldn't?

Jobbers (5)
I don't believe in putting job guys on the permanent roster. I prefer getting 'local' talent in to lose 2 or 3 times then disappear. Old school squash matches against nobodies. I'll comply for the purposes of this exercise. I guess Ink Inc could be my tag. Daffney as my woman. Suicide as my X. Stevie Richards regular.

Commentators 2: Tazz and Mike Tenay are doing fine
Backstage 2: Jeremy Borash is great. I'd drop Hemme and find some actress who could do the job just as well for a lot cheaper.
Referee 4: I don't know the referee's names
Authority 1: I hate Authority Figures in wrestling. If had one, he'd be as important on-screen as Joe Silva is in UFC. He's the guy to impress, the guy who books the matches, but you rarely see him on screen. Let's go with Jeff Jarrett. It's his company... sorta.
Ring Girl 1: I'd either have an army of ring girls ala UFC, or none at all.

So I'm bringing in : BxB Hulk, Mickie James, Charlie Haas, Shelton Benjamin, Awesome Kong, Sara Del Ray
Firing: Brian Kendrick (wwe) Christy Hemme (meh) Bischoff (wcw) Eric Young (super stale) Hulk Hogan (end the regime) Kiyoshi (who?) Raven (old) Rhino (stale) Tommy Dreamer

Bigger roster than I'd like. Were I in charge with no minimums, I'd really streamline the roster.

[SaySo]

Next week’s episode of TNA iMPACT is being preempted due to a Gangland marathon. Instead, TNA Wrestling will hold a Bound for Glory Kickoff Show on the company website during iMPACT’s regular timeslot at 9:00 p.m.

The following announcement was issued:

THURSDAY, SEPT 9: ONLINE BOUND FOR GLORY KICKOFF SHOW

This Thursday (Sept 9) at 9pmET/6pmPT, TNAwrestling.com presents the Bound For Glory Kickoff Show.

Hosted by Jeremy Borash, the webcast will feature a Q & A session with TNA President Dixie Carter where she will answer questions form the fans.

Additionally, tune in to see exclusive interviews with many of the stars who will be participating in Bound For Glory.

[cappyboy]

Again Cappy you're kind of not understanding exactly how television works. TNA doesn't get to PICK when they air their show (for the most part), Spike puts it where they would make the most money at it.

I don't recall ever suggesting they did. I was playing dictator of the universe and giving myself the power to choose.

Television is completely reliant on advertising which is mostly reliant on television ratings. They get better television ratings on a Thursday for their demographic than they would on a Saturday when their demographic are out playing beer pong and having relations with women. They may DVR it but Spike doesn't get hardly any advertising money for DVR numbers not compared to what they get when people are watching it live.

Not going to impress me here. You lose me when you start to speak about demographics. Say what you will but I have about as much respect for demographics as your average skeptic does for astrology. I'm a big believer in Disraeli's famous line about lies, damned lies and statistics. And too often demographic info comes as all three.


I'm not sure what you're comparing TNA to. You said you can't base it on a sitcom well even if you're basing it on sports remember that the NFL is having their OPENING night their first ever game of the season on a Thursday. Thursday is a valuable time for television shows it always has been, wasn't Seinfield on Thursdays? Football is on thursdays (increasingly so in the latter years), UFC was on Thursdays. Smackdown was very much an A show on Thursdays didn't their first ever broadcast have The Rock vs. Triple H with Shawn Michaels as guest referee?

Im trying to compare like to like. Wrestling to wrestling. Forget the sitcoms. Forget the sports. I'm trying to be strictly apples to apples. The other types of shows are different creatures with different rules. UFC might be a a fair comparison since it's a somewhat similar type of show to wrestling. As for Smackdown, it may have been 1A for a while but RAW was always 1. RAW was always the flagship. Again, like for like. Flagship to flagship. I'd grant you early Smackdown may be the closest thing there's ever been to a flagship show midweek. But RAW's always been above it.

Now if I'm thinking too narrowly in my scope, if I'm trying too hard to be apples to apples, okay. I'm willing to accept that. I'll be the first to admit I'm prone to overthinking. But people keep trying to argue with me with either voodoo disciplines like demographics or with stuff that I'm struggling to find relevant to the subject at hand.

My point is you obviously can view things how you would like but saying that something isn't big time just because its not on Monday or Friday is kind of strange, out of the box thinking that isn't followed by anyone in the television I've ever met and since I work in it I've met a lot of people involved in it :D

Well, A: I'm talking strictly in wrestling terms with that Friday to Monday window. And B: I'd be shocked if my thought process were followed in television. This kind of statement addressed to me is nothing new. You think you struggle to get me on here? Try living with me. My family has been trying to get how I think for 38 years and they often fail. Sometimes feel like I need to walk through life with "No, Cappy, that's just you" tattooed on my forehead.

I've never been an inside the box kind of thinker. I won't go into details because their relationship to the topic at hand is minimal at best. But I was born with serious stuff wrong with my brain. The first inside the box thinker I ever encountered gave me only a 15 percent chance of ever being able to function as a member of society. Naturally, I've had to learn to think and cope far differently than those around me. Which in turn makes my viewpoint look pretty bizarre sometimes.

Believe me; I recognize how absurd what I said sounds according to conventional wisdom. But I call em as I see em and let the chips fall where they may. Few if any of us on here have any connection to the ability to actually change things. So it's all an intellectual exercise anyway.

[Tigerkinney]

Ok I'll play along with this....

Main Event:
Kurt Angle
AJ Styles
'Fallen Angel' Christopher Daniels
Rob Van Dam
The Pope D'Angelo Dinero
Jeff Hardy

Angle, RVD and Hardy are the 'name' wrestlers most familiar to in want of a better phrase to casual fans, AJ Styles and Daniels are both over and highly respected by the TNA fanbase and I would let Daniels really run with his 'Fallen Angel' character as I feel it his best chance to get over as a main event 'star', whilst Pope is someone who WWE dropped the ball on and has superstar potential.

TV Title:
Abyss (Upper Mid)
Samoa Joe (Upper Mid)
Matt Morgan (Upper Mid)
Mr Anderson (Upper Mid)
Kazarian (Mid)
Rhino (Mid)

This is basically the group that would be competing over the TV Title, Abyss will occupy his usual role of being an Upper Mid monster, whilst Morgan whether it be heel or face will occupy a similar position. Anderson is another who will be the cusp of the main event but whilst RVD and Angle are still around and can still produce he will have to wait his turn. Samoa Joe has to be rebuilt as a threat in my opinion and a nice run with the TV belt could do that trick. Kazarian and Rhino would occupy the lower positions amongst this grouping. Kazarian has now past the X-Division (not that I'm dismissing it, as the aim is to rebuild it back to somewhere near it's former glories) and whilst I wouldn't push Rhino to the moon, he's still a solid worker.

Also notice I re-named this from Upper-Mid to TV Title, as I want to promote the X and TV belts as being near enough on an equal footing, with both champions and nearest challengers for those belts being 'Upper Mid' whilst the lower tier workers in each division would be Mid.

X Division:
Jay Lethal (Upper Mid)
Doug Williams (Mid)
Mistico (Upper Mid)
Petey Williams (Mid)
Austin Aries (Upper Mid)
PAC (Mid)
Brian Kendrick (Mid)

Lethal can still afford to stick around in the X-Division and help it become strong again, I would bring back Petey Williams as he is someone with a strong history in the X-Division, Austin Aries has done all he can in ROH, so I would bring him back and give him a proper push this time round, whilst Doug Williams provides a nice counter balance to the high Flyers. The two signings that would most give the Division a fresh look is Mistico and whilst trying to sign one of the biggest names in Lucha Libre might not come off, I would try my damnest if I was TNA to bring in a 'name' from either Mexico or Japan to give the X-Division an international flavour once again.

The other newcomer I would bring in and one I feel is more achieveable is PAC, an exciting high flyer who would be a perfect fit for the X-Division. I have expanded to 7 as I would keep Brian Kendrick around, but would have him occupy a position of not being pushed as a major player but not a jobber either.

As you can see by marking them as Upper Mid I would initialy build the division around Mistico, Aries and Lethal as the main stars.

Tag:
Motor City Machine Guns (Shelley/Sabin)
Beer Money (Storm/Roode)
London Brawling (Magnus/Wolfe)
Team 3D (Brother Ray and Brother Devon)
Worlds Greatest Tag Team (Benjamin/Haas)
LAX (Hernandez/Homicide)

MCMG and Beer Money would continue to be the lynchpins of the Tag Division, I would bring back Homicide to reform LAX and return them to their heel roots. WGTT would bring some 'name' value and a fresh round of match-ups. Team 3D would essentially be the gatekeepers of the Division putting over the other teams but not being turned into outright jobbers. I would stick with London Brawling for the forseeable future but eventually I would pull the trigger once more on a singles push for Wolfe.

Women:
Awesome Kong
Alissa Flash
Angelina Love
Velvet Sky
Taylor Wilde
Hamada
Madison Rayne
Sarita.

First off 8 women in this division is enough and that includes the jobber slot and I would drop the Knockout Tag Titles. Kong would come back back as the dominant monster, I would bring Flash back and push her strong this time. I would keep Sarita and Hamada around as they offer something truly different to the WWE Diva's. The Beautiful People Sky and Love would still be around (as they are over) but the division would no longer be built entirely round them. Wilde and Rayne get to stick around as solid hands but would essentially be the face and heel jobbers of the division.

Legend/Occasional:
Mick Foley
Jeff Jarrett
Sting
Ric Flair*

I agree with Self three here is enough, Jarrett as TNA founder should still be allowed the occasional match but has to be a team player and not push himself as a main attraction, a motivated Foley can still bring it in the occasional garbage brawl, whilst a motivated Sting can be used to give someone the rub. But I only keep any of them around if they are willing to put young talent over. Ric Flair I would keep around but would use him in purely a managerial capacity only.

Jobbers:

X: Amazing Red
Reg: Eric Young, Stevie Richards, Rob Eckos
Tag: Generation Me (Max and Jeremy Buck), Ink Inc (Jesse Neal/Shannon Moore).

Red is a TNA originals that can pop the fans with some exciting moves but for me just does not have what it takes to be champion material. In the non X Young is another TNA original and a solid hand but someone I can't buy into as being anything more than lower-mid guy at best....Richards for me is an older version of Eric Young. I would at least give Rob Eckos at least a chance to show what he can do, but he begins at the very bottom of the roster. In the Tag ranks, I like Generation Me but are still very young and can afford to still be in the jobber slot before climbing the ranks, whilst Ink Inc would be there to be the Tag division whipping boys. Generation Me, Eric Young and Shannon Moore can all also all double up as an extra jobber in the X-Division.

Commentators: Mike Tenay/Taz

Doing a solid enough job

Backstage: Jeremy Borash/Chrissy Hemme

Borash is a company man and offers something different from the eye candy with a mic routine, and as eye candy with a mic goes Hemme isn't doing a terrible job.

Referee:
Slick
Andrew Thomas
Mike Posey
Jamie Tucker

I would say drop the Hebners here as they are probably asking for the most money for this position.

Authority: Kevin Nash w/Miss Tessmacher.

Let's go left field here, Nash should be done as a wrestler but he has good charisma/mic skills and being 7ft is an authority figure that could handle himself in a skirmish. Miss Tessmacher would stick around as the eye candy on the authority figures arm.

Ring Girl: So Cal Val

She's part of the TNA furniture.

Firing: Bischoff/Hogan (as Self said- end the regime!), Big Roid Terry, Orlando Jordan, anyone involved with EV 2.0 (except Rhino, Team 3D, Stevie Richards), Becky Bayless, Daffney, Shark Boy, Kiyoshi/Suicide, Okada (is young lion on loan from NJPW so will go back anyway), Dixie Carter (remove as on screen character), Chelsea.

[Stennick]

I don't recall ever suggesting they did. I was playing dictator of the universe and giving myself the power to choose.

Believe me; I recognize how absurd what I said sounds according to conventional wisdom. But I call em as I see em and let the chips fall where they may. Few if any of us on here have any connection to the ability to actually change things. So it's all an intellectual exercise anyway.

Cap you're one of a kind man but you're an awesome dude, also if you get that tattoo you may go from awesome dude to deity.

[Hyde Hill]

Interesting work Tiger and like the reasoning behind everything. And yeah the numbers should be seen as maximums and totally agree on the television title and x division stuff you where saying. As in both are of the same level just for different type of wrestlers. In retrospect I should have structured it like that.

Self as always nice and unique choices.

PS the numbers given are indeed guideline maximum's so going under it or going over it by 1 are not a problem. It's just so there is a clear format and people do not go overboard.

[TDubRaiders]

Lethal can still afford to stick around in the X-Division and help it become strong again, I would bring back Petey Williams as he is someone with a strong history in the X-Division, Austin Aries has done all he can in ROH, so I would bring him back and give him a proper push this time round, whilst Doug Williams provides a nice counter balance to the high Flyers. The two signings that would most give the Division a fresh look is Mistico and whilst trying to sign one of the biggest names in Lucha Libre might not come off, I would try my damnest if I was TNA to bring in a 'name' from either Mexico or Japan to give the X-Division an international flavour once again.

I couldn't agree with that more TK. I for the life of me couldn't think of anyones name. I was so tired I threw the list together though so I didn't put as much thought it to it as I should have but I absolutely agree with you about the X Division. The X division needs an international feel to it. I myself loved the X Cup because of all the international talent. There are tons and tons of guys in Japan working there asses of and you could def find someone to steal the show in the X division. Also Mexico has it's share of talent and any kind of international talent in the X division is cool with me.

I've said it before but I loved, I mean loved WCW's cruiserweight division back in the day with Liger, Psycosis, Blitzkrieg, Ultimo, Juventud, Mysterio and all the international guys they had. It was just fun to watch and it was one of the main reasons I watched WCW back in the day because of the cruiserweight division.

[Self]

Nothing to do with anything, but I picked up the 'Fandemonium: Beer Money & MCMG' DVD a while back, and I'm watching it, and... there are no Motor City Machine Guns tag team matches on it. I mean straight-up, 2-on-2, traditional tag team matches. Zero. There are 3 singles, one 3-way-tag, and everything else is a big throw-all-the-x-division-guys-into-a-cage-and-let-them-do-stuff match. I'm so incredibly disappointed. How can you do a 'Best of' DVD without including their main kind of match? Poor choosing skills, TNA fans.

Also, not a single Beer Money vs MCMG match, but THREE Beer Money vs Team 3D. Again, poor choices.

P.S. Watching this DVD lowers my opinion of James Storm as a worker. The guy has personality, as a character he rocks, but it often seems like he's 'playing wrestler' as opposed to seeming like he's in a fight. Unconvincing punches. Half-hearted running. Roode is so much better a worker, who just lacks the personality.

[sabataged]

Nothing to do with anything, but I picked up the 'Fandemonium: Beer Money & MCMG' DVD a while back, and I'm watching it, and... there are no Motor City Machine Guns tag team matches on it. I mean straight-up, 2-on-2, traditional tag team matches. Zero. There are 3 singles, one 3-way-tag, and everything else is a big throw-all-the-x-division-guys-into-a-cage-and-let-them-do-stuff match. I'm so incredibly disappointed. How can you do a 'Best of' DVD without including their main kind of match? Poor choosing skills, TNA fans.

Also, not a single Beer Money vs MCMG match, but THREE Beer Money vs Team 3D. Again, poor choices.

P.S. Watching this DVD lowers my opinion of James Storm as a worker. The guy has personality, as a character he rocks, but it often seems like he's 'playing wrestler' as opposed to seeming like he's in a fight. Unconvincing punches. Half-hearted running. Roode is so much better a worker, who just lacks the personality.

I agree with the Storm comment. I think he is HUGELY overrated. I always hoped that brought back Chris Storm and teammed them up again because I think Roode is being held back by him. I think under the right circumstances Roode could be a major player if he learned to develop some more.

Right now I think TNA has so many guys that could be major players but will probably turn out not being. I think Desmond Wolfe is simply awesome, they should of built the Fortune Stable around him in my opinion. Fortune should of been Wolfe, Kaz, AJ, and Morgan. Wolfe as the Heavyweight, Morgan as the TV title guy, and Kaz/AJ tagging up.

Others that I think are on that list of could be major stars but probably won't be include Pope, Hernandez, Morgan and Roode. I think the later 3 would be great in WWE actually. I know the messed up with Morgan once but he was extremely green then. He has a little seasoning on him now and can work a match.

[Self]

I agree with the Storm comment. I think he is HUGELY overrated. I always hoped that brought back Chris Harris and teamed them up again because I think Roode is being held back by him. I think under the right circumstances Roode could be a major player if he learned to develop some more.

Despite lowering my opinion on Storm as a worker, if I had to choose one member of Beer Money to moon-push, it would be the Tennessee Cowboy. However, it should be said, I'm a guy who values charisma and personality more than in-ring work. I appreciate and enjoy good wrestling, but I LOVE vibrant characters who touch me in my special place. Robert Roode doesn't do that. Until he does, I wouldn't push him much further up the card.

That being said, I think Robert Roode is FANTASTIC in his current role. He's a solid old-school heel who makes the babyfaces look like a million bucks, and doesn't try to steal the spotlight for himself. Give this man a raise and use him to put over your tippy-top guys on TV, because he is excellent at it.

I don't think Storm is holding him back. Roode is the workhorse of the team, but Storm is the heart and soul. Without Storm's antics I don't think the team would have be as successful. They compliment each other very well.

[Jaysin]

Prediction time!

Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy- Angle is obviously winning this one

Anderson vs Pope- I'd like them to swerve us and have Pope regain his momentum, but I'm guessing Anderson wins this one.

Motor City Machine Guns vs London Brawling- The Guns take this, but London Brawling probably gets the last laugh by laying a beat down at the end or something.

AJ Styles vs Tommy Dreamer- AJ wins and Tommy doesn't come back.

Sting & Nash vs Jarrett & Joe- Sting & Nash win while Joe turns on Jarrett.

Douglas Williams vs Sabu- Douglas retains

Rhino vs Abyss- I think Abyss will win, but I really want Rhino to get used again...

Velvet Sky vs Madison Rayne- This one could go either way. I'm a fan of both workers, so I'm ok with either winning.

Looks like a good card on paper, so hopefully it turns out good.

[Self]

I don't like to predict. Here's who I want to win.

Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy - Big Hardy mark, but why root for something that's never going to happen?
Mr Anderson vs Pope - Go Pope. Closest thing to a homegrown star in the tournament.
Motor City Machine Guns vs London Brawling - They are TNA
AJ Styles vs Tommy Dreamer - Bury him
Sting & Nash vs Jarrett & Joe - Don't know what's going on, so can't pick a side.
Douglas Williams vs Sabu- Despite being British and hating EV2, I think Sabu would be a more interesting X-Division champ.
Rhino vs Abyss- Bury the blubbering sycophant!
Velvet Sky vs Madison Rayne- She floats my boat.

[Hyde Hill]

Nothing to do with anything, but I picked up the 'Fandemonium: Beer Money & MCMG' DVD a while back, and I'm watching it, and... there are no Motor City Machine Guns tag team matches on it. I mean straight-up, 2-on-2, traditional tag team matches. Zero. There are 3 singles, one 3-way-tag, and everything else is a big throw-all-the-x-division-guys-into-a-cage-and-let-them-do-stuff match. I'm so incredibly disappointed. How can you do a 'Best of' DVD without including their main kind of match? Poor choosing skills, TNA fans.

Also, not a single Beer Money vs MCMG match, but THREE Beer Money vs Team 3D. Again, poor choices.

P.S. Watching this DVD lowers my opinion of James Storm as a worker. The guy has personality, as a character he rocks, but it often seems like he's 'playing wrestler' as opposed to seeming like he's in a fight. Unconvincing punches. Half-hearted running. Roode is so much better a worker, who just lacks the personality.

Actually the fans chose those matches via poll not TNA themselves and prior to the DVD coming out Guns and Beer Money had just one 2 vs 2 match which was short and on Impact.

[Hyde Hill]

Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy- Let's hope Angle and Anderson can recapture Lockdown magic.

Anderson vs Pope- Whoever turns fully heel wins this one.

Motor City Machine Guns vs London Brawling- The Guns take this, but London Brawling probably gets the last laugh by laying a beat down at the end or something. Yep

AJ Styles vs Tommy Dreamer- AJ wins and Tommy does come back. lol

Sting & Nash vs Jarrett & Joe- Don't care except for Joe so Joe wins by beating all three!

Douglas Williams vs Sabu- Sabu is way to inconsistent and old.

Rhino vs Abyss- Rhino can still go but Abyss is more over and greater talent.

Velvet Sky vs Madison Rayne- Sets Up the title match at BFG

[Self]

Actually the fans chose those matches via poll not TNA themselves

I know. That's why I said "Poor choosing skills, TNA fans." It's nice to give the fans input, but when you end up with an assortment like this, is it not better to 'work the results' a little? It's a fine DVD, but severely lacking in variety.

I'm just bummed because I was sitting down to a meal, felt like watching a MCMG tag match, and couldn't find one.

[jwt13]

Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy Wins and gets his last match at BFG

Anderson vs Pope - Ends Angles in ring career and gives him the TNA World Championship becoming the first black TNA World Champion.

Motor City Machine Guns vs London Brawling- Guns win but London Brawling looks strong

AJ Styles vs Tommy Dreamer- Dreamer wins but AJ and Fourtune lay down a beat down on Dreamer

Sting & Nash vs Jarrett & Joe- Joe turns on JJ

Douglas Williams vs Sabu- Williams keeps the belt

Rhino vs Abyss- Keep Abyss looking strong

Velvet Sky vs Madison Rayne- Double DQ with Tara and Love getting involed

[cappyboy]

Prediction time!

Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy- Angle is obviously winning this one

I would certainly hope so. Angle has the personality skills and can go. While Hardy's more of a cult figure. Albeit with a main event sized following

Anderson vs Pope- I'd like them to swerve us and have Pope regain his momentum, but I'm guessing Anderson wins this one.

I hate to agree because I'd be rooting for Pope. He has more potential to be interesting. But he doesn't have the backing Anderson does. Why that is always boggles my mind but it is what it is.

Motor City Machine Guns vs London Brawling- The Guns take this, but London Brawling probably gets the last laugh by laying a beat down at the end or something.

Again I would hope so. More established team, better chemsitry because of all the time together and if memory serves, the current champions. All that should carry them to victory and the post-match incident would help the still-meshing Englishmen.

AJ Styles vs Tommy Dreamer- AJ wins and Tommy doesn't come back.

Would have to agree. Styles is the face of the company. Or at least he would be in one that were smart. And while I like Dreamer as the grizzled veteran, he shouldn't be anybody in the number two promotion in the land at this stage of his career. He needs to be playing that grizzled veteran role in high level indy that recognizes itself as such. Shame there isn't one on TV these days.

Sting & Nash vs Jarrett & Joe- Sting & Nash win while Joe turns on Jarrett.

I go along with this prediction but for personal reasons. One of my nearest and dearest female friends passed on right about this time of year a couple years ago. This match would be a dream to her because the two guys in wrestling she was most attracted to were Sting and Kevin Nash. Only guy I'd care about in this match is Jarrett so she can have her dream team win.

Douglas Williams vs Sabu- Douglas retains

Works for me. Sabu's had his moment and he has his legacy. He'd gain nothing here. Although I wish Williams would get a gimmicked name. As Doug or DougLAS Williams it always leads me to think of Hope's father on Days Of Our Lives.

Rhino vs Abyss- I think Abyss will win, but I really want Rhino to get used again...

Does anybody really have to win? There have been times I've liked both guys. But both have run their course in TNA and I wish both would go away. How can I miss them and eventually want them back if they don't go away?

Velvet Sky vs Madison Rayne- This one could go either way. I'm a fan of both workers, so I'm ok with either winning.

No argument here. I'd probably just watch this one for the action, let the chips fall where they may and hope there was a enjoyable aftermath.

Looks like a good card on paper, so hopefully it turns out good.

I don't know that it looks all that great to me. Too many guys I could do without seeing. The only matches without "Do I HAF to" talent are the Machine Guns tag match and the Knockout match.

[1234]

Main Event 6:
AJ Styles - TNA original, one of the best talents in the company.
Jeff Hardy - Jobber to the stars, im not a fan.
Kurt Angle - Cant ditch Angle.
Mr. Anderson - Charismatic and can put oon good matches when happy.
Samoa Joe - Great talent.
Christopher Daniels - Only if the "Fallen Angel" gimmick returns.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uppermid 6:
RVD - Demoted from the main event, helps build new stars.
Matt Morgan - Fortune needs there Enforcer.
D'Angelo Dinero - Not quite main event, needs to be built up slowly.
Abyss - Decent monster to have around, just needs to become a real MONSTER again.
Hernandez - Not a bad guy to have around.
Shelton Benjamin - Could do well in TNA.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

X Division 6:
Doug Williams - Technical master of the division.
Jay Lethal - Adds something different to the division.
Kaz - Representing Fortune.
Roderick Strong - His offense would be unique in the division.
KENTA - Adding International flavour.
Sonjay Dutt - One of the best high-flyers imo.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tag 5: (Im taking it this means 5 teams, I can only think of 5)
MCMG - Top talent.
Beer Money - Build the division around them and MCMG.
London Brawling - New good team.
Team 3D - Help build a few teams.
¡Peligro Abejas! - Paul London & El Generico - Add some fun to the division.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Women 10:
Angelina Love
Daffney
Hamada
Lacey Von Erich
Madison Rayne
Sarita
Taylor Wilde
Velvet Sky
^^^The current roster^^^
Amazing Kong - Great talent to have back.
Cheerleader Melissa - Again great talent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Legend/Occasional 4:
Kevin Nash - Decent, helps out younger stars.
Sting - Again, good, can main event and help younger workers.
Ric Flair - Just to manage Fortune.
Mick Foley - Couldnt think of more than 3 I wanted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jobbers 6:

X:
Shark Boy - TNA original
Amazing Red - Good jobber, who can put on a great match.

Tag:
Gen Me - Can job for a bit before getting a push
Inc Ink - Can double as tag team jobbers or singles.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Commentators 2: (Cant be bothered to think of replacements atm
Mike Tenay
Taz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Backstage 2: (Not doing a bad job, and cant think of replacements)
Jeremy Borash
Christy Hemme

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Referee 4: (Copied from TNA website, got rid of Hebner)
Andrew Thomas
Mark "Slick" Johnson
Mike Posey
Jamie Tucker

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Authority 1:
Jeff Jarrett - Should have a retirement match then become the Authority.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ring Girl 1:
So Cal Val - Cant fire Val

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meaning I released - Brian Kendrick, Chelsea, Don West, Eric Bischoff, Eric Young, Hulk Hogan, Jimmy Hart, Kiyoshi, Orlando Jordan, Raven, Rhino, Rob Terry, Stevie Richards, Suicide, Tommy Dreamer, Earl Hebner and whoever I have forgotten.

[jwt13]

TNA has announced that London Brawling (Desmond Wolfe and Magnus) have been pulled from tonight's No Surrender PPV in Orlando in what they described as "personal problems."

Generation Me will now take their place in facing The Motor City Machineguns for the TNA World Tag Team Championships. We are aware of reports over the weekend with major communication issues between TNA and website staff on the advertising for that match. Generation Me was also pulled from the PWG tourney. this weekend so people knew something was up.

Source: Ewrestlingnews

[MightyDavidson]

*facepalm*

So they went to the trouble of running a tournament to decide who was the number one contender and now the winners of said tournament....aren't getting their title shot?

TNA is made of fail.

[jwt13]

*facepalm*

So they went to the trouble of running a tournament to decide who was the number one contender and now the winners of said tournament....aren't getting their title shot?

TNA is made of fail.

They never ran a tournament to name the contenders

[Hyde Hill]

I know. That's why I said "Poor choosing skills, TNA fans." It's nice to give the fans input, but when you end up with an assortment like this, is it not better to 'work the results' a little? It's a fine DVD, but severely lacking in variety.

I'm just bummed because I was sitting down to a meal, felt like watching a MCMG tag match, and couldn't find one.

Ok sorry must have misread that. Also No London Brawling due to personal issues. Hope they are ok and replaced by Gen Me.

[jwt13]

I just saw this and thought it was pretty awesome it made me lke RVD a little more ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwQfy2BB54Q

[Hyde Hill]

They never ran a tournament to name the contenders

They did but it was on Xplosion apparently. Also they will get their shot just not now. This is not "face-palm" btw this is "act of god" meaning beyond TNA's control.

[Hyde Hill]

Just a theory on who "They" and "Them" are.

Ok it's like this, thanks Christian Cage, Bound For Glory a group of former TNA talent, Daniels/Brown/P.Williams/London, comes out and lay waste to Hogan, Sting, Nash, EV2, Hardy and another top face(s) and run off Dixie and Bisch.

Samoa Joe joins them explaining they where the ones that kidnapped him way back when. This makes 6 of them including Abyss and ad in Kendrick for a tag makes 7. Now you have two heel groups running wild on TNA with a lot of faces laid out.

Bischoff convinces Dixie to give him full power over TNA so that he can protect her and handle things while Hogan is out. Once this is done it turns out that Bischoff is behind them/they. This brings out Nash and Sting saying they where saying it all along and that Hogan was in on it. They get beat down heavily.

Once all hope seems lost. Out comes Hogan and he actually was not in on it, he tries the rescue but fails miserably. Hogan is then forced to turn to Flair and Fourtune resulting in a Flair led Fourtune vs a Bischoff led "Them" with the old guys phased out and the other talent stuck in the middle or not choosing sides.

Just an idea and off course it would be spread out over a couple of months but it could definitely work imho.

[Slagaholic]

I think Daniels would be the leader if they were to come back.

And it would actually explain why Kendrick just decided to join EV2.0 to get intel snooch.

[Hyde Hill]

I think Daniels would be the leader if they were to come back.

And it would actually explain why Kendrick just decided to join EV2.0 to get intel snooch.

ieboochie. Yeah Daniels or Joe would lead and Flair and Bisch would be the "supporters". And thanks I hadn't explained that part. It kinda ties up all the loose threads and in the end delivers a nice "originals" vs "originals" war. Anybody else have thoughts on this? More so on the story then the people revealed as They/Them.

[Jaysin]

I'm applauding the GenMe heel turn :)

[Jaysin]

Oh, and I said the reason I said that Tommy loses and doesn't come back is because on Thursday, Tommy tweeted posted something about that Thursday being the last time he comes into our homes for Impact.

[Slagaholic]

Maybe that means Impact moves to TUESDAYS!?

[Slagaholic]

Sabu's been botchtastic tonight.

[Slagaholic]

Did Tara and Rayne just...just...kiss?

[Jaysin]

Tommy's tweet "I just heard no TNA Impact Next week. So tonight is the last time I will b coming into your homes. I am really happy with the match. Enjoy"

[Slagaholic]

Rhino got pyro!

[Slagaholic]

That stage sequence was a really cool idea.

[Jaysin]

That stage sequence was a really cool idea.

They've done it before. Abyss vs Angle did it when MEM was around.

http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/The_Purging/Animation2.gif?t=1283734953

[Slagaholic]

It's still really cool lol. I'd imagine that's so much cooler live.

Rhyno vs Abyss was a lot better than I thought it would be.

[Jaysin]

**** you Jarrett, **** you

[Slagaholic]

Well that was certainly an original way to end an Eye Quit Match.

[Jaysin]

Well that was certainly an original way to end an Eye Quit Match.

I see what you did there :p

I liked that match a lot. Creative finish

[Slagaholic]

Umm...wtf was that finish?

[Johnny Fenoli]

Umm...wtf was that finish?

that was like 30 minutes of sex and then just saying ahh screw it, who needs to "finish"....

[Jaysin]

Hopefully Anderson and Pope is for the title now.

[Slagaholic]

Internet cut out and I missed the main event :(

That was the one match I really wanted to see too :(

[Hyde Hill]

Read the report and it seems that as long as you can overlook weird finishes that this was a good ppv.

[Johnny Fenoli]

TNA seems to always have too many throw away PPVs... They really should start going to an every other month format or something.

[Hyde Hill]

You should say wrestling in general then. But why throw away money?

[spikedave]

Ive seen on Twitter that TNAUKWRESTLING has said that desmond wolfe might of quit TNA
Put in white in case anyone doesnt want to know.
Has anyone seen this on other sites?

[Hyde Hill]

Ive seen on Twitter that TNAUKWRESTLING has said that
Put in white in case anyone doesnt want to know.
Has anyone seen this on other sites?

Nope nowhere else just a bs rumour seeing as Wolf was backstage and all and Gen Me was already informed yesterday they would have to work. it's probably injury mate plain and simple.

[Self]

Watched the MCMG vs Gen Me match. Fun stuff. Shelley actually sold for a change so that was a big plus. Love the heel turn. I hear the Bucks are really fun heels in PWG, so hopefully that'll translate to TNA and lead to an extended program between them and the Guns.

Also saw Jeff vs Angle. I wasn't blown away. Very good, not as amazing as some people are telling me. Seeing as I'm currently on a UFC kick, I loved the ticking clock aspect, but there were long periods of nothing happening. Too long.

Couldn't be bothered to watch anything else.

EDIT: In follow up to my crying over the Fandemonium DVD, I was wrong, there is a MCMG tag match on it. The Global Impact 2 match where they won the IWGP tag titles in included as a 'Bonus'. A fun watch, although I don't think the announcers were biased enough. I'll make a soccer analogy. In a Premier League game, the commentators are largely unbiased, but during an England International game, the English commentators are clearly cheering on 'their guys'. They're not proud of that, but they can't help it. I'd love to have heard Don West and Mike Tenay doing likewise for this international fixture; frantically cheering on the MCMG, pleading for them to make covers, going ballistic for every big move, cursing the ref for every two count... I think it could have been cool.

I'm aware how 'old news' this match is. Just a thought that sprung to mind.

[TracyBrooksFan]

was at the PPV live and i thought Hardy and Angle was a classic

[Hyde Hill]

A thought just struck me last night now that BFG is coming up what BFG could have looked like. I found it somewhat unsettling.

AJ vs RVD for the world
Angle vs Joe for no1 contender
Hardy vs Daniels Grudge
Anderson vs Pope vs Wolf TV title
Guns vs Beer Money Tag Title
Lethal vs Kaz X Title
Kong vs Flash KO title
Morgan vs Abyss vs Rhino Monster's ball
LAX vs British Invasion vs Gen Me vs 3D TLC No1 Contender
Kendrick vs Red vs Moore vs Young Ultimate X No1 Contender
Sarita vs Hamada vs Wilde vs Tara No1 Contender

Not in order but you get the point. Didn't even hire anybody just some not fired.

[Hyde Hill]

Steven Fernandes reporting....Magnus wrote the following on his twitter account: "Gutted that we couldn't face the guns for the titles, but there's a valid reason which I can't discuss. Rest assured we will get our shot."

Source PWI. So it's either personal or wellness but he isn't gone.

[Jaysin]

Source PWI. So it's either personal or wellness but he isn't gone.

Good, I love the Mag Daddy. I'd be gutted if he left.

[Hyde Hill]

Actually I was referring to the other part of the team but yeah glad both are still around. Can't wait for the "they" reveal. If it happens somewhat similar to what I wrote I would be in mark heaven.

[MichiganHero]

Am I the only one that finds Madison Rayne a bit fugly?

[Self]

Am I the only one that finds Madison Rayne a bit fugly?

She's a bit weird looking, but in a way that really seems to rev my engine. I dig her, but I can see why others wouldn't.

[MichiganHero]

She's a bit weird looking, but in a way that really seems to rev my engine. I dig her, but I can see why others wouldn't.

I don't know what it is but she looks....weird. I prefer me some Velvet :D

[Jaysin]

I've had the hots for Madison since she was Sexi Lexi Lane in CAPW here :)

[Hyde Hill]

I have that "weird" vibe from Angelina love. Sky just oozes.........

[Jaysin]

I find all three very attractive. Which is weird, because I don't usually go for the skinny blond type.

[fatallylost]

Watched the MCMG vs Gen Me match. Fun stuff. Shelley actually sold for a change so that was a big plus. Love the heel turn. I hear the Bucks are really fun heels in PWG, so hopefully that'll translate to TNA and lead to an extended program between them and the Guns.

I've not seen the PPV yet, but, I can confirm, ever since their heel turn last year, they've gotten exponentially better. They play the "we're the future" type of heel well...

It also helps that PWG isn't TNA, so they can do the "we're in the big time now" act. Which usually gets a ton of Xplosion chants. But, it's all good.

[SaySo]

From TMZ.com:

Sources close to Hulk Hogan tell TMZ the wrestling legend was taken to the hospital today because of "excruciating back pain."

We're told Hogan -- who has had several back surgeries throughout the years -- has had trouble the past few days and woke up this morning unable to get out of bed.

His girlfriend called the ambulance and, we're told, he was taken to a local hospital in Clearwater, FL.

Sources tell TMZ Hogan is still in the hospital where tests are being run.

[SaySo]

Jeremy Borash noted on his Twitter page that Kurt Angle dislocated one of his ribs at last night's TNA No Surrender PPV. The injury occured in his match against Jeff Hardy when Hardy hit him with the swanton. Borash included pictures of Kurt Angle backstage on his Twitter page.

"With Kurt Angle right now backstage. He suffered a dislocated rib on the @JEFFHARDYBRAND swanton to the floor. The amazing Dr. Tim Adair, who works for TNA backstage, has put Kurt's rib back in place. Angle says he is good to go. What a machine."

[TracyBrooksFan]

Madison is sexy specially in person as is Velvet and Angelina

[cappyboy]

Speaking of Madison Rayne, could someone settle something for me once and for all please?

True or False:

Madison Rayne is the maid of (dubious) honor in the video to Miranda Lambert's "White Liar".

[BHK1978]

Am I the only one that finds Madison Rayne a bit fugly?

I used to think the same way, but now for some reason I do not and I find her attractive. I am not sure why though.

Now Angelina does nothing for me at all.

However, my love for Velvet knows no bounds.:D

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Jeremy Borash noted on his Twitter page that Kurt Angle dislocated one of his ribs at last night's TNA No Surrender PPV. The injury occured in his match against Jeff Hardy when Hardy hit him with the swanton. Borash included pictures of Kurt Angle backstage on his Twitter page.

"With Kurt Angle right now backstage. He suffered a dislocated rib on the @JEFFHARDYBRAND swanton to the floor. The amazing Dr. Tim Adair, who works for TNA backstage, has put Kurt's rib back in place. Angle says he is good to go. What a machine."

I didn't know you could dislocate a rib.

[Chikbot]

I used to think the same way, but now for some reason I do not and I find her attractive. I am not sure why though.

Now Angelina does nothing for me at all.

However, my love for Velvet knows no bounds.:D

same here my man,same here

[TheEffect]

same here my man,same here

ditto x 2

[juggaloninjalee]

Velvet is the only reason I would ever consider having a womens wrestling division. In my dream women's division we would have Stacey Keibler, Torrie Wilson, Trish Stratus, Lita, and Velvet Sky.

[Hyde Hill]

Finally saw no surrender. My opinion based on Excellent - Good- Decent- Mediocre- Poor - Bad- Awful.

Guns vs Gen Me: Good
Williams vs Sabu: Decent
Sky vs Rayne: Poor
Abyss vs Rhino: Decent
Nash and Sting vs Jarrett and Joe: Mediocre
AJ vs Dreamer: Good
Angle vs Hardy: Excellent
Pope vs Anderson: Good

Promo's: Good
Commentary: Good
Ref's: Decent

Overall: Good despite the fishy finish in Angle vs Hardy.

[Slagaholic]

I wonder if Angle getting hurt made them change the finish at all.

[Hyde Hill]

Could be they decided on the draw because of it so they could asses the seriousness. Angle working through it kinda negates the fishiness of the finish for me as it was pretty early in the match.

[TheEffect]

Could be they decided on the draw because of it so they could asses the seriousness. Angle working through it kinda negates the fishiness of the finish for me as it was pretty early in the match.

I do see your point.
this wouldn't have happened if they hadn't used Hardy, i knew he was a liability waiting to happen.

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm I know he was a liability to himself given his style of wrestling and life (,although he seems healthier now, which some people have started calling fat for some reason,) but for others? I was more worried about and with Anderson and nothing has happened yet.

[crownsy]

I do see your point.
this wouldn't have happened if they hadn't used Hardy, i knew he was a liability waiting to happen.

even more so since he's put on enough weight to draw unflattering comparisons to brother matt.

He's still athletic, but he seems like he is pretty outta shape now....doesn't exactly get alot of height on the swanton with the added poundage.

[Hyde Hill]

Lol. He seems healthier to me. Not junkie skinny any-more. More weight =not fat.

[crownsy]

Lol. He seems healthier to me. Not junkie skinny any-more. More weight =not fat.

but he has a beer belly.....there's a difference between gaining weight healthily and gaining weight because you are no longer doing certain narcotics that help keep you skinny.

I hope Jeff's doing it the right way, but he has packed on pounds in a hurry. Not sure that's really healthy.

Better than being on the junk by a mile though.

[Hyde Hill]

It's probably both non junk and more healthy living but he isn't close to being fat yet imho. Tomko had a lot worse hehe and Matt Hardy is also bad but with all the injuries and stomach problems he has somewhat of an excuse as well.

[SaySo]

Spoiler alert (Highlight if you dare, Below cuz i let you).

===



Classic Match Returns At BFG?

According to a report on ProWrestling.net, you can expect a War Games-style match at the upcoming TNA "Bound For Glory" pay-per view show.

The report claims the War Games-style bout will feature the EV2 faction taking on the Fortune group.




===

[Slagaholic]

Hopefully that will be the end of EV2.

[Slagaholic]

It's probably both non junk and more healthy living but he isn't close to being fat yet imho. Tomko had a lot worse hehe and Matt Hardy is also bad but with all the injuries and stomach problems he has somewhat of an excuse as well.

Jeff looked really bad a few months ago but he's looking better these days.

I read that Matt has a gastric intestine problem but he claims to have now overcome those issues.

[Hyde Hill]

BTW I touched on this before, no replies on what people thought of it:(, but what are everyone's opinions and or hopes on who "they" are. Sting's "them" seems pretty clear being Hogan and Bisch the point there is more what does he mean they are doing and why.

[Stennick]

I don't really have any hopes for they or them. In fact I'd be happier if it was just done away with. I know some people think it may wind up being some sort of TNA original's faction with Joe, Daniels and others but really I'm not a fan of stables. I like one big heel stable (Fortune) and people pulling together to fight them (not EV2).

Although if it somehow involved Monty Brown I would most likely shout POOOOOOOOUNCE other than that I really don't want there to be a they or them since I don't have the faith in them being able to pull it off without it becoming some sort of turn, twist, swervearistic mess.

[Tigerkinney]

'They' or 'Them' are a band of TNA Originals lead by David Flair. Joining him in this band of invaders looking to take back 'their turf' will be his second in command Erik Watts, Tag Team Enforcers Ron & Don Harris, Kevin Northcutt, X-Division star D-Ray 3000 and the Hardcore Midgets Teo, Puppet & Meatball plus their valet Sirelda. ;)

[Slagaholic]

The more I think about it the more I think it's the return of TNA originals as suggested. But I don't know who they will be. As long as Daniels is the ring leader I'll be a very happy boy.

[Teh_Showtime]

Daniels and James Mitchell would be good too

I miss the Father, he truly made Abyss' character better

[The Bus]

I also really have for couple of weeks hoped that James Mitchell would be one of "them". Abyss needs a manager and who better than the Father...

[Jaysin]

So if Mitchell is involved, that'd be a good reason he wasn't involved in Hardcore Justice.

If Mitchell and Daniels are involved, that'd make the story line pretty damn awesome in my opinion. Then again, I am a Daniels fan and Mitchell is one of my favorite managers ever.

[Stennick]

So all this talk of Daniels hasn't he been gone since March? If TNA really wanted this guy back and he really wanted to be back it seems like they could have done something in the last half a year to make that happen. Although I'm sure Bischoff will say "we've been planning this since March its nice to see it come to life" like he insists he's done with damn near every storyline in TNA.

[Jaysin]

Bischoff has said in so many interviews that the second they have a good story line for Daniels that he'll be back.

[Stennick]

I think thats his way of appeasing TNA's fairly large internet base. They can find stories for Rob Terry, ECW rejects, and all sorts of other talentless hacks but they can't find something for Christopher Daniels? I honestly don't know how they fired the guy in the first place. Everything TNA has done for the last seven years he's been a huge part of and to just up and fire a guy like that because hew as making too much money and then turn right around and bring in Orlando Jordan smacks of B.S to me. Oh well Daniels is doing his thing in ROH and honestly I hope he stays there.

[Jaysin]

You can be as cynical of it as you want, but I believe him. Then again, I like the ECW "rejects", Orlando Jordan, and Rob Terry can develop into a decent big man given enough time and grooming.

I love Daniels and I do hope he comes back.

[Stennick]

You know I was the biggest Bischoff fan in the world. I truly believed that from 95-98 he was the smartest man in wrestling (to some degree). I loved the way he counter balanced WWE programming, he gave away results, he was on when they were on commercial, he had an entire network at his disposal and he used it like nobody else ever did.

Even his book I most believed and thought he was given at the very least what he honestly thought was the truth. Then comes TNA and every fantasy booker/dynasty writer on the planet has exactly what they want. Bischoff vs. Vince part II, TNA vs. WWE, Monday Night Wars, EVERYTHING you could ask for from a wrestling fans stand point except for the excitement. Bischoff had been down this road before and did nothing.

In WCW the entire reason there was a cruiserweight division is because there wasn't one in the WWF, the entire reason for the nWo and other realistic stories was because that wasn't going on in the WWF. He was the anti WWF. It took him about a year but by 1996 he was flast out producing better television than Vince. He knows what it takes to be successful and he did none of those things in TNA. So far the only new thing he has brought to TNA are the REaction type promos that we see.

Eric has been around for over 9 months now and I have to say other than a stint of about two months the quality of the show has not improved at all. In fact I don't even know what his role in the company is. He seems to take on a producer type role of just over seeing the product and not injecting himself in it. Are they really paying this guy to say "yeah that looks good". Because that was essentially his role in WCW while working with Russo the first time and he proved to not be so great in that role during that time period either.

I like Eric but the fact that he's got all these other guys jobs and hired in countless guys that nobody cares about but can't find something for Daniels to do makes me think he's blowing smoke.

[Hyde Hill]

Think the Daniels release also has to do with Terry Taylor being the talent relations guy and he is slowly being replaced with D-Lo.

[Self]

As for 'they', I'd love to speculate, but I cannot possibly be interested in anything to do with Abyss.

As for Daniels, he's good, but I'd MUCH rather see someone new.

[Hyde Hill]

I don't know about Bisch. He has done some good and some bad apparently but it's hard to say what he is and is not responsible for so it is hard to judge.

[Stennick]

So shortly after Hulk Hogan is going to TNA shock wore off I got to thinking. What exactly do you do with a Hulk Hogan that can't wrestle? He's one of the most charasmatic men on the planet but Hogans promos are about Hogan. They always have been even at the height of the nWo outside of mentioning the groups name he had very little to say about his "band mates". Hogan's schtick only works for Hogan and only works when he's wrestling. He's not a great authority figure because again he's not a great promo when it comes to putting over other guys or the show in general. Even before his heel turn he wasn't out there bragging about WCW he was bragging about Hogan.

So what exactly do you do with a 50 year old Hulk Hogan who can't wrestle. You pay him all that money to go on talk shows and talk about TNA? Thats expensive marketing when you could essentially do the same thing with Ric Flair who's already proven he's great in the manager role (taking on the manager/player role in Evolution). So is Hogan there as Hyde suggested to get those over seas television deals? And since their paying him so much they bring him onto the show and might as well get some mileage out of him? What would you guys do with Hogan if you HAD to use him? Preferably realistic no Abyss vs. Hogan thumbtack matches.

[Hyde Hill]

Use him much like they used him in the "good" period and only let him come out if absolutely necessary. Make it special, as less is more in the case of legends. And yeah he needs to improve in putting others over and the promotion. Don't know about another role then authority as he doesn't strike as a manager type ala Flair. Maybe more like an occasional manager/supporter and sorter out of issues that don't involve authority.

For the rest he should be backstage as a semi road agent or mostly on the road talking to every media outlet that will have him and always have something TNA on him and name-drop it. Like he should have done with the Hasselhof rost.

[PeterHilton]

As for 'they', I'd love to speculate, but I cannot possibly be interested in anything to do with Abyss.

As for Daniels, he's good, but I'd MUCH rather see someone new.

Daniels' big problem is that, with TNA's shift in the product their presenting, he's just entirely too bland. Unless he does that Fallen Angel thing, he's "just a guy."

And TNA doesn't need any more of those.


So what exactly do you do with a 50 year old Hulk Hogan who can't wrestle. You pay him all that money to go on talk shows and talk about TNA? Thats expensive marketing when you could essentially do the same thing with Ric Flair who's already proven he's great in the manager role (taking on the manager/player role in Evolution). So is Hogan there as Hyde suggested to get those over seas television deals? And since their paying him so much they bring him onto the show and might as well get some mileage out of him? What would you guys do with Hogan if you HAD to use him? Preferably realistic no Abyss vs. Hogan thumbtack matches.

I'd continue the PR thing and actually keep him as the Authority Figure, buthave him play more of the bad guy role: have him talk about how the young guys can't hack it, how HE'S the reason TNA is even on the map, have him constantly telling guys they need to show they have the IT factor...and as wrestlers work to gain his favor he slowly builds a stable of his "chosen few" (they get the title shots, they get screwy referee bias ) ...so you're taking advantage of Hogan's popularity and leaving the focus on him as a storyline but you're also using the natural smarkiness of TNA fans who kinda want to root for their guys as the underdog anyway

[SaySo]

Imagine if McMahon had a corporate backing during 1996/1997 of a Time Warner, there wouldn't be a threat of bankruptcy or being taken off the air since Ted Turner would pump money (which he did to WCW since they weren't a profitable venture until Bischoff took it over).

When WWE was at its darkest hour, it took McMahon to screw one of the most loyal worker in his company to start getting the momentum to change in his favor. The Montreal Screwjob was the creation of the Mr. McMahon character, the character that would set the course. Montreal Screwjob was D-Day...the push that would take five months to finally snap the WCW 83 week streak on top and eventually winning the Monday Night War.

While WCW was on the hook to pay Bret "The Hitman" Hart, they didn't utilized him like his price tag that first year. As WWF was starting to catch Nitro in the ratings war, Eric Bischoff seem to make decisions like putting Goldberg / Hogan on Nitro instead of investing that match on a pay per view (I guess they wanted to start another ratings streak, which didn't bode well because WWF won majority of the times post May 1998).

I guess WWF signing of Mike Tyson for the Road to WrestleMania forced Eric Bischoff to outdo VKM even better by signing Karl Malone, Dennis Rodman, and Jay Leno to wrestle on their pay per view while their champion Goldberg was somewhere in the card (not until Halloween Havoc that he main evented a PPV, but that went off the air in some markets i believe reading). Then he signed the Ultimate Warrior, maybe he's the solution since Warrior was big in the WWF.

When WWF started to win the Monday Nights, the backstage atomosphere of WCW became heading to the road less traveled (Where the Big Boys get Paid and Get the Final Say). While The Rock, Foley, HHH became main event stars, WCW had similar faces fight it out throughout 1999 (Flair-vs-Hogan, etc.). WWE were heading to ratings over 5.0. WCW was dropping down to 3.0 into the next year.

Who was running WCW in 1995? In 1997? In 1998? In 1999? It always appear to me that Bischoff tends to deflect his involvement post 1998. But i can't blame him for doing that if you look at WCW after 1998 (financial statement 1999, 2000 | Buy rate drops | attendance drops, etc.).

Did 1996-1998 lead to long term success with WCW? Looking back now, not a chance. The intent of Bischoff was to get rid of WWF which he came very close to achieving but didn't get the job done. The short term success of being on top of Monday Night was coupled with the Long Term failures that allowed the value of WCW to shrunk in its value (, 2001, AOL-Time Warner sold WCW to WWF for less than $10 miillion. I remember reading that the value of WCW was nothing without TNT broadcasting it. Couldn't they shop it to another network? Fusient back out only cause TNT / TBS isn't airing it). If only Bischoff thought of selling WCW back in 1997 instead of 2001, it would have been singing a different tune.

Bischoff was innovative in his approach for Monday Nights but sometimes you have to be consistent and good for a longer span, not a few years.

[Hyde Hill]

Ehm I think we where talking Bisch in TNA not Bisch in general. So what is your opinion if you have any of him in TNA so far SaySo?

[SaySo]

I don't think highly of him. Just don't know what kind of value (valuable enough, positive change to, etc.) he has to offer to the wrestling world since of his initial run in WCW which clouds my judgment. But if i had to choose between Bischoff or Hogan, i'll pick Bischoff since he has experience running a rasslin' company. And Hogan could do a better job promoting TNA instead of his book but that was ten months ago.

[Stennick]

I agree that Eric didn't make the most wise decisions in the world but the truth of the matter is they were a successful professional wrestling company. For the first time in HISTORY Eric had WCW turn a profit in 1995. WCW was born in November of 1988 so it was over six years of time before WCW made a profit. Men like Bill Watts, Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Ole Anderson to name a few couldn't do what Eric Bischoff did and thats turn a profit.

From 1994 until 1999 Bischoff ran a successful pro wrestling company. It was profitable, it was main stream, it was for the majority of that the number one company in the world or neck and neck with. Nobody in the history of that company had more success running it than Eric did. I'm not saying he built long term plans but they certainly worked.

Not only did he ask for television time on Monday nights to compete, but he made more use of Ted Turner's media than anyone ever had. He had television on two different networks, he was making sure WCW were on the air while Vince was on commercial. He CREATED the over run. There are a lot of things Eric Bischoff did which by the way includes the very format WWF use today. Eric was the first to take us to twelve pay per views, he was the first to take us to two hours of prime time television.

Eric's not really a creative genious in the ring but as far as forever changing the way pro wrestling television was done. Everyone gives Paul E all this credit but the truth is. The long television promos, cruiserweights in meaningful roles, luchadors, multiple hours of prime time television, TWO prime time television shows. (Thunder was around two years before Smackdown), twelve pay per views a year, the over run.

Eric has done more for pro wrestling than anybody gives him credit for. He made mistakes but so did McMahon (nearly bankrupted his own company), so did Heyman (he DID bankrupt his company) and so has every other promoter out there and the truth is nobody else in the history of pro wrestling has beaten Vince McMahon at his own game, EVER and at this point they likely will. As of this year Vince has been in business for himself 28 years. When they look back on that time its going to read 26-2. Those two losses are 1996 and 97 and those two losses came against Eric Bischoff.

[PeterHilton]

Eric has done more for pro wrestling than anybody gives him credit for. He made mistakes but so did McMahon (nearly bankrupted his own company), so did Heyman (he DID bankrupt his company) and so has every other promoter out there and the truth is nobody else in the history of pro wrestling has beaten Vince McMahon at his own game, EVER and at this point they likely will. As of this year Vince has been in business for himself 28 years. When they look back on that time its going to read 26-2. Those two losses are 1996 and 97 and those two losses came against Eric Bischoff.

I think that, at least for me, the problem is that Eric is VERY aware of how much he did for wrestling and spends as much time as possible reminding people of it, while conveniently forgetting the mistakes he made (which were never his fault according to him)

He was a brilliant producer, was much better than Vince about being smart about popular culture, could spot trends much earlier than the WWE did, and knew how to take advantage of the benefits that came with being attached to a large corporation.

But that ego - that part of him that won't let him admit to his mistakes even years after the fact - is what killed WCW in the end. His unwillingness to change,his unwillingness to create new stars, his unwillingness to admit the nWo was dead, his unwillingness to take the WCW and net fans seriously (something he still does today with TNA's hardcore fans)...those all created an atmosphere where WCW went from cutting edge to tired and played out in barely over two years.

He was a smart guy with a fatal amount of hubris. And he still is.

[LiquidSwords]

I have one question about TNA. Does Spike have any say in the booking or creative process? Do they try to use their influence to have certain people booked well that they think are marketable or will make TNA money?

[jwt13]

I think thats his way of appeasing TNA's fairly large internet base. They can find stories for Rob Terry, ECW rejects, and all sorts of other talentless hacks but they can't find something for Christopher Daniels? I honestly don't know how they fired the guy in the first place. Everything TNA has done for the last seven years he's been a huge part of and to just up and fire a guy like that because hew as making too much money and then turn right around and bring in Orlando Jordan smacks of B.S to me. Oh well Daniels is doing his thing in ROH and honestly I hope he stays there.

I've never seen anything in Daneils I've always thought he was a midcard at best for a national company so ROH probley is the best fit for him he could be good for a small indy fed like ROH

[brashleyholland]

I have one question about TNA. Does Spike have any say in the booking or creative process? Do they try to use their influence to have certain people booked well that they think are marketable or will make TNA money?

I have been told by someone who works for the UFC as one of their Spike TV liaisons, that the network has final say over what goes on....which is the same with any network and makes perfect sense.

So while they may not have the kind of influence to say "We want Jeff Hardy to be the TNA champion for the next six months", it's probable that if TNA did a storyline where a good guy with a white supremacist gimmick beat up on 'evil' black guys each week then burned a Koran live on Impact, they could certainly veto the idea.

The issue is that TNA doesn't really have anyone or anything that Spike can 'ask for' in order to spike (no pun intended) ratings. They've often come to verbal blows with the UFC over wanting certain fights or fighters (Penn, Rampage, even Lesnar at one point) on Fight Nights or 'numbered' UFCs on their network. However who or what does TNA have that would give them cause to say "We want THAT every week"?

[Hyde Hill]

I have one question about TNA. Does Spike have any say in the booking or creative process? Do they try to use their influence to have certain people booked well that they think are marketable or will make TNA money?

It's not one hundred percent sure. But as they are TNA's main business partner they definitely have indirect influence by defining TNA's target audience (males 18-39) and stuff like that. Further reports indicate that Spike foots a large part of the bill (around 50 percent) of some of TNA's talent or have at least done so in the past so they want to see that talent featured at the very least. The only direct and specific influence story I know of is that Spike said they wanted the belt put on Sting when he was first signed to a long term deal.

Edit: And yeah final say as brashley pointed out but I thought that was a given and it's more a negative power then a we want this power.

[Jaysin]

:D

I'm going to a TNA live event tomorrow. I'm so excited

[ampulator]

I have been told by someone who works for the UFC as one of their Spike TV liaisons, that the network has final say over what goes on....which is the same with any network and makes perfect sense.

So while they may not have the kind of influence to say "We want Jeff Hardy to be the TNA champion for the next six months", it's probable that if TNA did a storyline where a good guy with a white supremacist gimmick beat up on 'evil' black guys each week then burned a Koran live on Impact, they could certainly veto the idea.

The issue is that TNA doesn't really have anyone or anything that Spike can 'ask for' in order to spike (no pun intended) ratings. They've often come to verbal blows with the UFC over wanting certain fights or fighters (Penn, Rampage, even Lesnar at one point) on Fight Nights or 'numbered' UFCs on their network. However who or what does TNA have that would give them cause to say "We want THAT every week"?
Which brings me to this question? If there isn't something Spike particularly wants from TNA, why need TNA in the first place? They got the UFC.

[Stennick]

There are several advantages to having TNA there as well as the UFC.

For all intents and purposes at the current moment MMA is surging in popularity while pro wrestling at the very least is treading water. This basically means that earning the rights to UFC programming is only going to get more expensive as it gets more popular. If the UFC get a deal on HBO, or any other large network such as Strikeforce has done it could put Spike on the losing end of a bidding war for any significant UFC programming. To where as with the current state in wrestling the WWE can't even find programming outside of the Universal banner (Raw and Smackdown are both broadcast on NBC Universal while NXT/ECW has been cancelled). The CW no longer wants wrestling despite strong ratings, MY T.V backed out of wrestling despite it being their only content and shattering records on a weekly basis. This means that for the forseeable future TNA's only television outlet is going to be Spike T.V. If they are their only media vehicle in the United States its gives them a TON of power in negotiating with them as far as advertising revenue etc.

On top of that I'm not even sure UFC produces a weekly television show outside of TUF which to my knowledge has seasons (not in the strict television sense but none the less periods of time where new television is not shown). I'm not sure if Fight Night is every week, every month or only special occasions. So really it comes down to TNA drawing them a 1.0 (one of their biggest ratings outside of UFC) week in and week out.

So they have a show that brings them the highest ratings on the network, its a show they know isn't going anywhere, its virtually costless for them to produce it AND they can control just how much advertising revenue they get from them being as TNA can't get television elsewhere.

So there are plenty of reasons to keep it around. Thats why I always laugh when I hear "Spike is about to pull the plug on TNA".

[PeterHilton]

So there are plenty of reasons to keep it around. Thats why I always laugh when I hear "Spike is about to pull the plug on TNA".

This plus there's still more than 2years left on a guaranteed 3 year deal

Your post also makes me wonder how long is left on Spike's deal with UFC? Wouldn't it be a mutually beneficial deal if ESPN were to come in...they need programming, UFC would love the added exposure, revenue, and it makes them seem more legitimate..

I mean, that seems like the obvious move for UFC imo

[LiquidSwords]

I'm surprised FX wouldn't be open to showing wrestling. TNA's product fits in with most of the shows that are currently on the channel.

[LiquidSwords]

This plus there's still more than 2years left on a guaranteed 3 year deal

Your post also makes me wonder how long is left on Spike's deal with UFC? Wouldn't it be a mutually beneficial deal if ESPN were to come in...they need programming, UFC would love the added exposure, revenue, and it makes them seem more legitimate..

I mean, that seems like the obvious move for UFC imo

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN would try to bring UFC over to their network. Boxing is barely shown besides Wednesday and Friday Night Fights. UFC would definitely benefit from ESPN's production values and like you said the added exposure.

[Stennick]

FX has one of the best top to bottom line ups of original programming that they really don't need pro wrestling.

Sons of Anarchy, Its Always Sunny, Rescue Me, Damages, Justified, Terrier's, The League. Thats just new content.

They also just got down airing The Shield and Nip Tuck both pretty successful shows that cost them less to air in syndicated re runs.

Pro Wrestling doesn't bring in the advertising that its supposed to. Even though its aimed at that 18-34 demographic there are a LOT of advertisers that aren't interested in buying advertising during a pro wrestling show. They feel although the people watching are the desired age demographic, its not wise to do business with such an unpredictable form of entertainment.

With the controversy that wrestling brings Katie Vick, Muhammad Hassan, even in later years Chris Benoit, multiple wrestling deaths, not too mention all sorts of other examples.

When RAW was pulling in 6.0's on Cable Television it was a LOT more worth it to do business with them than when their doing 3.0's.

If you think about it no pro wrestling company in over 20 years has had any success on cable outside of WCW which was OWNED by a cable company (essentially) and WWE RAW which has had success on USA, UPN, TNN (later Spike), SyFy, MyTV, The CW.

So when you look at it like that. Nobody outside of Vince McMahon has had success on any sort of prime time cable television in a very long time. Even Vince is having a hard time getting cable companies to do business with him with his drop in the ratings among other controversies listed. So networks are even LESS interested in doing business with companies that are just as risky and are doing a third of the business that Vince is doing.

Spike does it because they have very little interest (at this time) of being a "major" player in the original programming scale of things. TBS, TNT, FX, USA, A&E, and some others are all producing full lineups of original programming. While Spike (aside from a few shows) mostly sticks to UFC, TNA, syndicated television, and half hour reality like programming such as Deadliest Warrior, ManSWERS, etc. So that combined with them pretty much having all the power over their biggest ratings getter makes it a no brainer that Spike would do business with them while other networks have long since stopped showing interest in being anywhere near pro wrestling. Not too mention the stigmata with airing pro wrestling takes away from any networks credibility in the entertainment worlds eyes atleast.