The Official TNA Discussion Thread

[Hyde Hill]

The thought that they do have talent I like and its not all terrible kept me watching for awhile. But "They" turning out to be a takeoff of the NWO proved to me, as I feared from the day they arrived, that Hogan and Bischoff are incapable of being original or fresh whatsoever. I realize that seeing WCW 1996 play out in TNA in 2010 might appeal to some fans, and I can accept that. It does not appeal to me. I could send logical emails to Dixie, Bischoff, etc, and explain myself, but I have no faith I would be regarded as anything more than a "hater". So I'm going to express my displeasure by simply not giving them my time anymore.

I realize they will still produce some quality matches. And I'm certain that the IWC will make me aware of those matches, and I will find a way to view them if I am so inclined.

Yep and it's not just about freshness to me either. It used to be for every 10 things TNA did it was 2 good 5 mediocre and 3 crap. I could live with that as I could ignore the crap and focus on the good now it has become 2 good 2 mediocre 6 crap to me and the crap cannot be ignored any-more as it has such an extremely prominent place. Ad into that the hope that eventually that crap would become less or go away (false I know) and that hope having completely ended for now I just don't care any-more.

BTW Self how can you drive to a Dragon Gate show while living in the UK? Did they do a UK tour or where you in the US/Japan at the time?

[Self]

Aye. Who really cares about who is in charge? The whole 'General Manager' type deal, making the 'booker' a character and his job a prize is so beyond played out. Hate it. It smacks of unoriginality. Wrestling folks so inside the wrestling bubble all they can write is kayfabe versions of backstage politics. Go see some movies for cripes sake. Read a book. Go to the theatre. Get ideas from outside the bubble

[Hyde Hill]

All this ownership talk is making my head heart.

First Jarrett was the owner, then Jarrett and Dixie, then we had a MILLION director's of authority. Erik freaking Watts was a Director of Authority, seriously.

After that they brought Foley in and HE was an owner, then Hogan came in and HE was an owner. Now Bischoff has "Control".

Seriously this is awful.

Hogan comes in and buys part of the company so it makes Foley and JJ's ownership null and void somehow? I thought Bischoff already had control since he was doing all the match making. Why was he allowed to be a heel with The Band and treating JJ that way if Dixie or Hogan could have stopped it at any time?

Why did they have to wait seven months to take "full control" from Dixie. Isn't Hogan part owner and wasn't Bischoff already "president" or whatever. I mean Bischoff was allowed to mis treat everyone from Jay Lethal to Foley to Jarett and Dixie didn't step in so why would she step in if Jeff Hardy joined him?

And now Flair JOINS Hogan so we have a stable of Hogan, Bischoff, Jarrett, Abyss, Hardy, Flair, AJ, Beer Money, Kaz and Morgan? ELEVEN guys in one stable seriously? How in the hell are you going to get eleven guys booked relevently on a card? Are we going to get 2001 WWF where we would have random ten man tags between the Alliance and the WWF mid card jobbers because they had all these guys and nothing for them to do?

Wasn't the knock on the nWo was that they got too big and too many guys were left without anything to do other than come out and hang around while the main eventers cut promos? Isn't that what this is going to be? How are Matt Morgan, Kaz, Beer Money going to get ANY promo time when their lost in an eleven man shuffle?

Final Countdown mentioned that he liked MCMG so he might still watch. My question is who are they going to face now? Are you really interested in Team 3D vs. MCMG? We just had Gen Me vs. MCMG and we just got done with Beer Money vs. MCMG, their tag division is dead in the water.

Hyde your break down of what is important in TNA and the gaps and what not is SPOT on exactly how I see it (that feels weird to agree with you completely on something TNA related :D)

Finally Eric Bischoff ripping the WWF for re creating the nWo and a retrend was just him having a snarky, holier than thou attitude. He's most likely upset they didn't call him to be a part of it. If they would have brought in the nWo during the InVasion we could have had some classic match ups. Can you imagine Hogan vs. Austin, Hogan vs. The Rock, Outsiders vs. New Age Outlaws, nWo vs. DX. So if anything they should have done it a year earlier. I find it funny that Eric is talking about anything being a retrend when we just got done having Eric, Hogan, Sting, Nash and Jarrett feuding over stuff that went back to 1996 and WCW. Eric runs off at the mouth about a lot of things and I've given the guy credit. Hell I even bought his book when it came out. I thought the way he went about taking Vince down was brilliant. The guy knew what he was doing in 95 and 96.

Nitro was unpredictable, it was new, it was fresh, he was giving away results, he was on when the WWF went to commercial, he booked pay per view main events on Nitro. It was a lot more than just him buying up a lot of WWF talent he knew how to use them and did so brilliantly for two years before things just got too big and he had made too many promises to too many guys and nobody wanted to play together by 1997. Like others have said I think it was Peter maybe DJ or BP but someone said that Eric took one idea (nWo) and just beat it into the ground. His solution for a gimmick change was to make somebody the nWo or get them kicked out of the nWo. Then he created two nWo's. Then he created another nWo. Nearly up until the time the guy was let go there was some incarnation of the nWo out there and when he came back in 2000 guess what? The New Blood might as well have been nWo light. Eric's fresh ideas have been gone since 1996 which saddens me because he was the one guy I really thought knew what he was doing but clearly I see that either he never did or he's just there to collect a paycheck until he's fired and TNA latches onto their next booking messiah.

Hehe thanks wonder if others agree. We where close on some-things just different in our approach so to speak. If you read back we actually agreed on a lot of things only I was also just pointing out the other side of the coin or mitigating factors etc.

Anyway pretty much done with discussing TNA per se but I do enjoy discussing wrestling with you guys. So might pop in from time to time. But for now the Hyde, Stennick, Peter, DJfunk and others debates are done. Hope you enoyed it as much as I did.;)

Edit: To be fair he has done some good stuff as the cutting down of the amount of segments which improved the flow, ReAction type angles and ReAction in itself but all the good is outweighed by all the bad. Of the big 3 this year (EB, Hulk, Russo) it's actually EB that has done the most good imho. What TNA needed in that time period though and still needs was someone ala VKM who could take the good and use it, tweak the potential good and just say NO to the bad. Same as for instance Angle he has good ideas from what I have heard him say, read and hearsay but at the same time he thinks Red could be the next Rey Mysterio. I really hope Bruce Prichard can become that filter seeing how close he has been with Vince for so long.

Ok now I need to let go seriously old habits die hard. F you TNA.

[PeterHilton]

Aye. Who really cares about who is in charge? The whole 'General Manager' type deal, making the 'booker' a character and his job a prize is so beyond played out. Hate it. It smacks of unoriginality. Wrestling folks so inside the wrestling bubble all they can write is kayfabe versions of backstage politics. Go see some movies for cripes sake. Read a book. Go to the theatre. Get ideas from outside the bubble

True, but I think the authority figure/booker/GM character is simply a given part of the sports entertainment genre. It goes back to Jack Tunney as the President of the WWF...'someone' is obviously in charge.

If anything, I'd just like there to be a twist on the 'evil authority' figure and have someone who treats the roster more like a sabermetrics GM using finance and statistics to make decisions that are based in cold, calculated logic instead of always siding with the heels for personal gain.

[Self]

True, but I think the authority figure/booker/GM character is simply a given part of the sports entertainment genre. It goes back to Jack Tunney as the President of the WWF...'someone' is obviously in charge.

Sure. I always point to Joel Silva in UFC as my ideal GM type figure. You know his name, you know his role, but he stays out of the way and lets the drama unfold away from him.

If anything, I'd just like there to be a twist on the 'evil authority' figure and have someone who treats the roster more like a sabermetrics GM using finance and statistics to make decisions that are based in cold, calculated logic instead of always siding with the heels for personal gain.

I could buy into that. New. Different. Has a grounding in sports. Cool beans.

[Hyde Hill]

Don't fully agree but still an entertaining review.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Yi54RWx2k

[liontamer]

You said something similar when you posted that incredibly baffling fantasy booking a few pages back. Let me ask you something:

1) Based on TNA's previous booking or these types of stories (i.e Joe feuding with MEM for months and then joining them for no apparent reason) what makes you think the 'twits and turns' would make any more sense or be any more compelling than what's happened up to this point?

2) How exactly would these 'clues' that were allegedly left behind be picked up by the average viewer?

3) Wouldn't that type of storyline STILL be an nWo rip off?

4) Does a storyline that includes that many convoluted twists and turns actually make for a more enjoyable wrestling program? I mean...unless you're a giant fan of something like Lost ..how does a convoluted storyline with a million clues that the average fan can't pick up on that goes nowhere and has no pay off make TNA better?

Was TNA better when the MEM was the central focus of the show?



Good for you. As a longtime follower and viewer of TNA in all it's glorious ineptitude and as a longtime critic of Bischoff and Hogan and their inability to sacrifice their egos for the good of the company hey work for, I'm positivie that there's almost no way for this to go well.

I read the spoilers and it already sounds awful. But it's good you're openminded.

I just think that a lot of people reached the end of their ropes.



Well, duh. It IS TNA. :p ;)


I had a more detailed response in the works and nearly completed, but it got deleted when someone jumped on the computer and changed the page while I answered the phone, so I'm going to keep it shorter and can provide more detail later if you want it.

1) EB wasn't writing it before. Not a guarantee, but does give some hope.(btw, I don't recall, what even happened to MEM?) It's also not as random as they've laid the foundation from the moment they came in.

2) Aside from bob and janice (which I only knew from reading about online), I thought most of them were fairly obvious, and as is it turned out bob and janice didn't even matter and may have just been a way to swerve the internet community and take your attention away from more obvious things. BTW (spoiler alert) Fortune joins HH and JJ on impact as I believe I'd predicted in all 4 versions of my 'baffling fantasy booking'. If you want me to go into detail on the clues left for that I'd be happy too. There is plenty to show that JJ was with hogan, that fortune was with hogan and that hardy was turning heel, that something is going on with tessmacher etc. These aren't things I had to watch over and over to pick up either.

3) DX was an nWo rippoff while the nWo was happening and it worked. MEM kind of worked. I don't know one way or the other, but I've heard the nWo itself was a rippoff from a storyline in Japan

As long as they change it enough, it could still feel different which is what matters.

4)first of all TNA, WCW, WWE all try, or have tried, to end in suspense to get you you to tune in the next show to see what happened, this is no different. Sometimes it's going off the air during a brawl without knowing the outcome, sometimes it's discovering someone's been assaulted backstage, but leaving without saying who the attacker was etc. You've gotta admit, it's better than trying to solve for the third or 4th time at that it was HHH that ran over HBK.

Second it's like the annoying thing they are doing with the Jersey shore stuff, it's one more element that could possibly attract viewers and as long as it doesn't go overboard it should cost many viewers.

With the popularity of shows like 24, prisonbreak, lost, etc I think it's not a bad thing to try.


And every time I read the board, everybody is done with TNA for good and yet you all keep watching and posting. They must be doing something right to make thier most frustrated critics continue to follow along.


Personally, I still have tapes of WCW from the early nWo days to when it started sinking and got boring a few months or so after the finger poke of doom. And breifly started following again with the new blood.

I have much of the attitude era and evolution from WWE. I have not watched smackdown in a couple of years and tune into Raw only occasionally and don't find usually it that compelling. Never watched ECWv2 or NXT.

I started following TNA from shortly before it got a TV deal and have watched it since it's days on FSN. The stoylines and characters are geting better, and the production is a lot better. I miss the faster paced x-division matches and the international talent from the FSN days though. It's not as good as the old days, but more entertaining and compelling than anything I've seen in a few yrs from the competition.


I agree with some of the assessments on the last few pages regarding the weaknesses of pushing their own talent and think they have tried a little too hard to be like WWE the point that it's started to cost them their identity. I would also like to see less blood on TV; I like the fact that it's more geared towards adults than WWE, but it's a little much lately.

[PeterHilton]

1) EB wasn't writing it before. Not a guarantee, but does give some hope.(btw, I don't recall, what even happened to MEM?) It's also not as random as they've laid the foundation from the moment they came in.

Eric isn't a writer and he's never been a writer. He's more big picture. And I sincerely doubt they've 'laid the foundation' for anything since they came in because - as has been mentioned - a lot of the storylines changed and evolved due to roster moves and - also mentioned before - many of the people involved in the storylines weren't even available when Eric and Hogan signed on.

C'mon..I'm supposed to believe that Hardy turning heel is somehow related to him showing up on the first night and sitting on the top of the cage?

And nothing happened with MEM. Nothing. It was a way to elevate...ummm...Morgan? Joe? Get Scott Steiner airtime? It died due to a lack of direction and fizzled out when people got bored. No one was elevated or helped in any way.

2) Aside from bob and janice (which I only knew from reading about online), I thought most of them were fairly obvious, and as is it turned out bob and janice didn't even matter and may have just been a way to swerve the internet community and take your attention away from more obvious things. BTW (spoiler alert)

Maybe. But I'd also say you're in the minority because even the writers who review the show for wrestling sites have not picked up on these 'clues.' And since nothing in the spoilers made it seem like they did any kind of comprehensive recap I still think people really won't pick up on it.


3) DX was an nWo rippoff while the nWo was happening and it worked. MEM kind of worked. I don't know one way or the other, but I've heard the nWo itself was a rippoff from a storyline in Japan


DX was derivative. And yes the nWo was a rip-off of a Japanese storyline. That's not the point. MOST storylines are 'rip-offs'of something else. But you're ripping off the nWo using several of the exact same lead characters. In the same position.

It's not just a rip-off..it's a BLATANT rip-off using several characters that are waaaay past their prime (Hogan, Sting) to re-create a story that was done to death a decade ago and then making it worse by tying the albatross that is Jeff Jarrett to it's neck.

I didn't watch the new version of Rocky or Rambo. Why would I watch this?


4)first of all TNA, WCW, WWE all try, or have tried, to end in suspense to get you you to tune in the next show to see what happened, this is no different. Sometimes it's going off the air during a brawl without knowing the outcome, sometimes it's discovering someone's been assaulted backstage, but leaving without saying who the attacker was etc. You've gotta admit, it's better than trying to solve for the third or 4th time at that it was HHH that ran over HBK.

No. It's not. In both cases it's crap. I didnt want to see Cena vs Orton for the millionth time. I didn't want to see Trips vs HBK for the millionth time. And I certainly don't want to watch Easy Eric and Hollywood Hogan run wild on the goo guys...for the millionth time.

With the popularity of shows like 24, prisonbreak, lost, etc I think it's not a bad thing to try.

What are they trying? Again..the only person seeing this complex mystery is you.Until I read some spoilers that indicate a story beyond "We're Taking Over!" then it's meaningless to suggest it's anything other than that.

[Bigpapa42]

3) DX was an nWo rippoff while the nWo was happening and it worked. MEM kind of worked. I don't know one way or the other, but I've heard the nWo itself was a rippoff from a storyline in Japan

As long as they change it enough, it could still feel different which is what matters.

I honestly have a tough time regarding D-X as a ripoff of the nWo. In that they were both stables with key players, sure. But how they came about was very different, as was their intent and their individual evolutions. If D-X was a ripoff, then kudos to the WWF for doing it properly by changing enough things that it felt fresh and unique.

And that is where TNA fails. Miserably, in my opinion. TNA goes out of the way to make the storylines feel like what they are ripping off. Rather than change things so it doesn't come across like a ripoff, they go out of their way to emphasize the similarities. If the intent of the Bound for Glory main event angle wasn't to have an nWo feel to it, then TNA is a bigger mess than I thought.

[Stennick]

Liontamer you're giving them WAY too much faith on this twisting turning storyline. Usually with storylines like that or movies or television shows that have a twist ending they usually go into detail how they got to the point they were at.

Spoiler

When Flair joins Hogan they don't say "see when he was doing this I was here doing that" they don't do anything like that. They come out, hug, smile and say "we were on the same page the whole time" yeah because that makes sense. Flair and Hogan getting bloodied and beaten while fighting each other back in March seems like it was part of the plan.

This whole "follow the clues" thing you're talking about doesn't exist. You ever play six degrees from Kevin Bacon or whatever it is? The real point of the game is that if you try and you can link any two things together. Heck I think they have it for Wiki pedia. I was able to get Hitler and Ryland with three degrees of seperation. You can create any stupid story and then months later bring everyone in that story together and say "GOTCHA" it doesn't really mean you did anything. If thats the case then Cena joining Nexus has been in the works since he was a thug rapper. "I ditched my bad guys ways to make you people fall in love and worship me just so I could rip your hearts out". You can manipulate the story anyway you want but to truly believe that they planned it from the start is naive at best.

I haven't and won't be watching TNA. Its impossible to not find out spoilers since their all over the internet and people talk. People knew what WCW were doing in 2000 and yet nobody cared and nobody watched. You can know the convulted dumb storylines by absorbing them from being online and then you can come in here and say "vintage TNA" doesn't mean "you're following".

[liontamer]

Maybe I am giving them too much credit. time will tell. I'll see if I can find the appropriate clips on youtube to show some of what I've been talking about in terms of the clues.


Also, just because certain people are on the same side now, does not mean they necessarily were on the same side all along. A don't know if Flair was on hogan's side already by the first live match or not, but there were some major hints that fortune was with hogan and JJ over the past few months. It may have been a plan from the go or an alliance that emerged for convenience.

Also Stennick, this is not against you personally as you contribute a lot to the forum, but about something I see a lot in general.... if you admit to not watching the show, why are you surprised you've missed the clues? And why are you so upset over the direction it's headed. People don't always put stuff that small in the spoilers. You don't see me commenting on the direction of smackdown's storylines based on spoilers.

[Lo-Drew]

So I've had 24 hours to try and think of something that interests me enough to tune in. I thought I would go through TNA and look at each part of it.

TAG TEAMS:
We've just had MCMG vs. Gen Me, now we're looking to have MCMG vs. TEam 3D again and we got Beer Money. Those seems to be the only active tag teams in TNA aside from Ink Inc and lets face it their pretty bland and generic. So all this "Vince doesn't care about tag team wrestling" whining that some TNA fans do (not here) is silly since they have about three tag teams that are any good in the ring and the only two out of the ring that are interesting are MCMG and Beer Money. Gen Me are bland and boring, so are Ink Inc. They have tats thats about as interesting as they are. Team 3D are great on the stick but forgive the pun their shtick is tired and played out. So there is zero interest in the tag team division at this point. Last night was as good as it gets and frankly that was just indy tag team spot fest v.234

KNOCKOUTS
When this division was created it had women like Gail Kim, Amazing Kong, ODB, since then its had Cheerleader Melissa/Allisa Flash, Hamada, Daffney, Tara etc. Everyone blasted the WWE for not having a legit womens division even with Natalia Hart, Mickie James and Beth Phoenix all still being a part of said division. Along with Melina. So they seem to reboot it focused on the BP's even if none of them can hold a candle to the "original" Knockouts. That being said atleast their not WWE cast offs, their once again going with their own girls and doing what they can with who they can. Then they bring Tara back, then they bring Mickie in. Even though Mickie is most likely getting more than the released girls combined and maybe more than all four girls in that ring last night. None the less they seem to have re invested in the Knockout division. What do they do with this investment? Do they use her to bring up the other gals in the division? Do they have her legitimize one of the BP's? Sadly no they start a feud off with two WWE Divas. For all the smack talk they have done on Vince and the Divas and now their main women's feud is set to be two former WWE divas. Its not even like Tara is the most over woman in the division she's a distant third behind Madison and Angelina. That doesn't matter to TNA when they can do WWE feuds.

The X DIVISION
Low Ki, Jerry Lynn, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Chris Sabin, Joe, even names like Michael Shane, Elix Skipper, Kazarian, Amazing Red they have had some of the most talented, original in ring talents of this decade in that division. Now who do they have? So far I've gathered the main stays are Doug Williams, Amazing Red, Suicide and Jay Lethal. You could argue Kaz but it seems he's busy jobbing to ECW at the moment. Even those names are respectable so who do they have Jay Lethal feud with? A man that was main eventing shows, opening and closing Impact, who was having the palm eating out of his hand as he feuded with the second biggest name in the last three decades of wrestling? They go from him doing that to feuding with a bad c list celebrity rip off. This is why this company fails they just can't pull the trigger on anyone that isn't in the WWE. Even guys like AJ Styles who have been there since show one take a back seat to THREE former WWE acts in the main event of their biggest pay per view. The division is a joke and if the best they can do is Rob Eckos than they should just give up. Could it be a fun little feud? Sure but you know what? Its not for Jay Lethal, the guy is above the fun little fued act and should be one of the top five babyfaces in the company at this point.

The Main Event:
Does everyone realize that the main event featured three former WWE guys? You can argue all you want that Angle has made himself a part of TNA and he has, and you can argue that Anderson has made himself into a star he has. My argument though is that they have AJ Styles, Joe, Pope, Jay Lethal, the names go on of guys they have built up and only knocked them back down the card to feature these guys. Do you know what Vince changed guys names and pushed homegrown guys or home grown gimmicks over everything else? Because you don't come across second rate that way. This main event could have main evented a RAW in 2006.

With Fortune clearly on the back burner and clearly going nowhere after their loss to EV2 and with Desmond Wolfe on the sidelines and even if he wasn't he'd be put in a position to fail anyway I have no reason to watch this company. I might give them a shot after they have their next life changing forever omgz event. You know once Eric and Hogan get done rap....er I mean working for TNA they might want to see what Ole Anderson is donig. Maybe the Black Scorpion can show up and next years BFG.

I fully agree with them not pulling the trigger on creating stars. Lethal's a great example but I mainly use Samoa Joe. In my honest opinion, Joe should have won the TNA Heavyweight belt at BFG 06 instead of Sting. And they pulled the trigger on the Joe and Angle feud about a year early.

Pope is another example. I can't think of any wrestler who was as hot as Pope was in the beginning of the year. The man had to crowd in his hands and TNA did a solid job building up his match with Styles. So what do they do? Pope loses to Styles only to frop the belt five days later to RVD. Now granted, I like AJ a lot, but clearly that was the time for Pope to win. Since then Pope has just been there and that's a shame considering how great he is.

TNA relies too much on WWE cast-offs instead of worrying about their homegrown talent. But then again, most of that homegrown talent is either gone from the company or stuck in the midcard. Examples would be Monty Brown, Abyss, AJ Styles, AMW, Chris Sabin, Robert Roode, Matt Bentley.

Basically, TNA's a mess.

[PeterHilton]

It may have been a plan from the go or an alliance that emerged for convenience.

Or it could have been 'fly by the seat of your pants booking' based off of a 10 year old storyline they're re-doing because they didn't trust their homegrown stars enough to let them run with the ball.

Based on TNA's past...I JUST CAN'T DECIDE WHICH IS MORE LIKELY. :(

[Johnny Fenoli]

spoilers, I guess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yyl2uTU13Q&feature=sub

[ampulator]

spoilers, I guess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yyl2uTU13Q&feature=sub
lolwut

[cappyboy]

spoilers, I guess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yyl2uTU13Q&feature=sub

You know it's funny. I saw a story about this on AOL the other day and even AFTER reading it, I didn't get who this person was or what it had to with anything. That link says more just coming up than AOL's story in several paragraphs.

[Stennick]

Also Stennick, this is not against you personally as you contribute a lot to the forum, but about something I see a lot in general.... if you admit to not watching the show, why are you surprised you've missed the clues? And why are you so upset over the direction it's headed. People don't always put stuff that small in the spoilers. You don't see me commenting on the direction of smackdown's storylines based on spoilers.

Much respect LT *cyber fist dap*

The reason I get frustrated over TNA is they have stars I like. In fact at one time they had more characters I liked than the WWE. Let me list the things I liked about TNA and how in the last seven months they have killed it. Not in order.

AJ Styles turning Heel. I liked it, AJ is very underrated on the mic and he has shown he's MORE than capable of being the top guy in the ring and on the stick. Although is Prince Phenomenal was a joke I think it got him "comfortable" for lack of a better term on the mic. That may have been the most mic time anyone has ever given AJ and although it was a silly character it got him in front of the crowd, playing a heel, in the main event and tons of mic and air time. In TEW terms it built up his mic skills. They then decided that turning AJ wasn't enough. They had to frost his tips (I assume since he wouldn't go full blonde like they were talking about) he put on a "Ric Flair" robe and starts a feud with Abyss who by the way is wearing red and yellow, carrying around Hogan's ring and "hulking up". Generally trying to redo 1994 all over again.

Matt Morgan's "We" character. Much like AJ they built this guy up on the mic and got him comfortable by having him around Jim Cornette. Then came his "we" character and he was gold. He was getting better and better every week in the ring and on the mic. They had mostly dropped his "blueprint" character which I thought was dumb anyway. Then they kill that to job him to Joe in what turned out to be a COMPLETELY meaningless match. For anyone that believes this was played out and Joe's kidnapping was planned. Answer me why they would job Morgan out upon Joe's return? What good did that do Joe? He didn't go onto face Morgan on pay per view or atleast nothing sustatainable, and it killed Morgan's ENTIRE character so he could become Ric Flair's bodyguard?

The Pope, the guy was on FIRE going into Lockdown. In fact I bought a ticket TO Lockdown to see Desmond Wolfe and The Pope. He loses and thats fine and understandable except for what a week or two later Rob Van Dam becomes the TNA Champion only for him to not even lose the title. They felt he was so important that they had to take the championship off of him for virtually no reason and they couldn't even do it with a loss. At any rate they could have pulled the Trigger on the Pope right there. Have Pope in the main event of Bound for Glory against Hardy. He's already face, he's great on the mic, he's crazy white hot and Hardy turning him would help everyone involved.

I was one of the first people to praise TNA for pushing Jay Lethal. I loved it from the get go, from the Ric Flair impersonations into him becoming his "own" man. I loved most of that feud although he's went from beating Ric Flair to being beat up by a guy who's not going to have that character in six months.

I could go on but this is depressing. At anyrate THATS why I cared about TNA, thats why I had such high hopes for them. Their "push the young guys and make it interesting" was really paying off. Pope, Morgan, AJ, Lethal, Wolfe, MCMG, Beer Money, etc."

And aside from maybe MCMG each one has had their push seriously altered, screwed up and almost put right back where they were in March. Thats why I cared because for a few months it was looking like this thing was going to be something and now in the last few months its become clear their right back were they were.

[Johnny Fenoli]

You know it's funny. I saw a story about this on AOL the other day and even AFTER reading it, I didn't get who this person was or what it had to with anything. That link says more just coming up than AOL's story in several paragraphs.


She's one of the most popular "characters" from a very popular MTV reality show, called the Jersey Shore, for which "the shore" is an over the top rip off of.

[Hyde Hill]

Maybe I am giving them too much credit. time will tell. I'll see if I can find the appropriate clips on youtube to show some of what I've been talking about in terms of the clues.


Also, just because certain people are on the same side now, does not mean they necessarily were on the same side all along. A don't know if was on hogan's side already by the first live match or not, but there were some major hints that was with hogan and JJ over the past few months. It may have been a plan from the go or an alliance that emerged for convenience.

Also Stennick, this is not against you personally as you contribute a lot to the forum, but about something I see a lot in general.... if you admit to not watching the show, why are you surprised you've missed the clues? And why are you so upset over the direction it's headed. People don't always put stuff that small in the spoilers. You don't see me commenting on the direction of smackdown's storylines based on spoilers.

Because in Stennick's case he did watch the show and if you read the right recap's they include everything. I agree that some people just read spoilers or read/listen to/watch online commentary and base their opinions on that. And that is just bad. But if you read the full recap from say PWI which just reports what happened and is very complete you know what is going on even subtle small clues as with the camera not catching where Abyss destroyed Hardy and dragged him out to the ring later. Or obvious ones as the Angle vs Hardy finish at No Surrender before BFG now makes sense as Bisch was looking for any reason to make it a tie. The rematch on Impact either EB and H got lucky or they bribed the Hebnars.

Still there is a lot left that does not make sense and fooling/surprising everyone, which they didn't just slightly with Hardy and the Hogan is still in hospital, is no great feet.

And on the spoiler:

Having read it it comes of as Fourtune being the NWO black and white aka B team, it depends how it plays out though but that is the most obvious one. Hopefully they eventually resent the role and go face against "They" but we shall see. Until something along those lines happens not watching and not giving real attention or money.

[Hyde Hill]

Or it could have been 'fly by the seat of your pants booking' based off of a 10 year old storyline they're re-doing because they didn't trust their homegrown stars enough to let them run with the ball.

Based on TNA's past...I JUST CAN'T DECIDE WHICH IS MORE LIKELY. :(

Neh it's not fly by the seat of our pants its more just dumb and bad booking even-though it's planned out.

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm the new spoilers look more encouraging, might have to retract my opinion on the old ones.

[|Anderz|]

Don't fully agree but still an entertaining review.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Yi54RWx2k

the guy raises a great point about Sting... what the hell was he doing all this time if he knew this was gonna happen?

"act as heelish as possible so nobody believes you" - absolutely stupid booking.. as is Nash going over Joe..

I could list a whole host of other 'wtf?' booking decisions but most have already been covered..

Ill keep watching TNA, but my head will not thank me for it..

[liontamer]

First to Stenicks post: I agree on AJ (also perplexed about the whole TV title thing and how he's going to defend it every week, but never does). I agree on Morgan, not to mention he lost to Kendrick recently. I agree on lethal, he was the main reason to tune in for a few weeks there and now he's been reduced to nothing again. But I only partly agree on pope. He was on a roll before he kept getting attacked by wolfe. But that said, won some pretty big matches during the tournament (uncluding external matches like pinning angle in the final four tag match on impact), and most of those he lost were due to foul play. They may put the title back on Sting, maybe. Highly doubt it's going on Nash. I think Pope will have a strong push for a title shot before next year's end, either the world title, or taking the Legends/Global/TV title off of AJ.

As for the clues, I'm only doing this once, because it's very time consuming (6 hrs to be exact). It's not comprehensive, but it's enough for the major stuff, some of it very repetitive (which is why it amazes me some parts of this storyline were unseen by people). It's close to chronological order, a few may be off. This is the evidence for the 1st and most likely version I proposed before, based on the most obvious storylines, there are still other possiblities as to where it will go.

This starts after Sting returns to attack Hogan and abyss and starts brawlling with RVD


Sting's suspended, EB trying to prevent Dixie from knowing what's going on by surrounding her with security to prevent sting from getting near. Also don't let nash in on the first discussion about sting. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQq0lfZL0r8&feature=fvsr)

Deception interview Sting not sure if RVD is in on it or a pawn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1O__RFuBMk&feature=fvw)

Nash vs JJ, questions why JJ is with Hulk and EB (to oust dixie and get back some control) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGBCiT_B_wc)

Nash vs JJ part two, gives possible motive for why hulk and EB have been avoiding him (presumably, for bringing back hall and waltman, although I think EB was in on that), Nash is threatened with suspension like sting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xgGplZwarg&feature=channel)

sting and nash vs hogan, JJ, EB (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCS8sKIZZQg&feature=related)

Sting vs JJ, HH, and EB (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VtTrZRPa2c&feature=related)

Sting vs JJ and Hogan (JJ also faked being attacked by sting earlier to make sting look heel) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9FJ08mDX9M&feature=channel)

Segment 1: Hogan 'welcomes' Ev2. To me what I hear is Hogan is upset Dixie didn't let him in on Ev2, about the compairson of Ev2 to him, and he states he basically missed everything they did while he was in WCW with the nWo (he's slighting them, not complimenting them). Per Abyss THEY are pissed about Ev2 and hold Dixie responsible
Same clip, 2nd half of 2nd last segment, EB not happy with Dixie's decisions, tries to upstage her and sets up the Abyss RVD match. Abyss comes out and confronts, but never attacks EB (http://www.spike.com/full-episode/final-chapter/39039)

Hogan Kisses up to RVD and EV2 and gets them set up for the Abyss and Fortune's 1st attack that sidelines RVD, Flair also blames Dixie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwqn1EIWBj0&feature=related)

Fortune's second attack. Never see/hear them attack hogan and JJ, they brutally attack sting and nash, especially sting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKIkFWOIC3E)

Sting and Nash vs Flair and fortune (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrmsKaiSUXE&NR=1)

Segment 1: Hardy and Angle Draw while Hardy is in the ankle lock. EB advances both, Dixie overrides and makes a rematch. Bischoff looks upset (http://www.spike.com/full-episode/one-more-time/39951)

Segment 1 and part of segment 2 same show (but carried onto reaction): They Tie Again, EB is happy, dixie is not. Not sure it matters, but I do note the hebners are involved. Segment three reactions from EB and dixie. (http://www.spike.com/full-episode/tna-reaction/39974)

So here's my take whether it was a plan from the go or something that developed later, hogan and EB were conspiring to control TNA (warning, I found it pretty much impossible to keep this perfectly chronological). They brought in everybody (Hall, Waltman, the nasties, OJ, Bubba, Hardy, RVD, Anderson etc - not sure hall and waltment were intended by HH and EB, although EB seemed in on it). I doubt any of the last three were in on it initially and I don't think they are with fortune (that monday night hogan/abyss, flair AJ match was just to make headlines to compete with Raw). Anyway, Sting (who had skipped interviews and appearances since Hogan took over to show his disapproval and later voiced it while attacking Dixie) could smell a rat and attacked.

hogan knows the power that goes with the title and given that he and EB are very power hungry they wanted one of their guys to become champ (since hogan can't wrestle anymore). In comes RVD. I'm not sure if they were playing RVD from the start or not. My feeling is they had no reason to until Ev2 showed up and he showed allegiance to them (not to mention they were loyal to dixie who Hogan and EB are trying to screw over). This makes RVD one of the enemies so they need to take the title off of him. Hardy and abyss fail mutple times and thus they need a plan to Remove RVD (as abyss stated multiple times).

Initially, JJ also knew what was going on, but then joined HH and EB to oust Dixie and try to get some of the power back. Nash tries unsuccessfully to set up a meeting with HH and EB, meets tessmacher and suddenly sides with sting against HH (sting was previously suspended for his efforts and Nash is threateded with suspension. Dixie is given bodyguards to keep her from contacting these sting so that she doesn't find out what he knows). Pope later finds out from tessmacher and joins forces. In between, we see the first proof I'm aware of that fortune is with HH and JJ when the attack Sting and Nash only during the arguement between the four. I'm not sure when they joined forces, but my guess would be somewhere around the time Ev2 showed up. It wouldn't make since to have been earlier as they would have just kept the title on AJ and there would have been no reason for the long feud with flair and AJ. Basically they needed a large group to take care of the problem and these guys answered.

The smoke and mirrors sting and Nash keep talking about are Hulk and Eric constantly talking about how they are here for TNA, falsely befriending Dixie, and trying to make it look like they are the faces and Sting and Nash are the bad guys, in addition to the abyss 'THEY' storyline.,

We also see JJ try to recruit Joe and even though he later helps JJ, he intially refuses and states he's basically in this for himself and therefore he can't be trusted and gets screwed at the PPV

As for Hardy, I don't know when he's first in on it, but the seeds are planted with his losses to RVD and all of the overly positive interviews about their relationship. Going into BFG, I thought he may turn, but wasn't sure and thought anderson and or angle could have also turned. Looking back, I think they were definitely with Hardy (they called his near loss to angle a draw just as he was liekly about to tap), and angle may have been in on it as well and lead to believe he'd get the title win (as they drew again which is what EB wanted and not at all what dixie wanted and gives EB a back up plan in case something happens to hardy. Not to mention per the reports he tweeted he is upset they chose hardy overy him and the supposed phone call from hulk endorsing him at the start of impact)

Things I don't know: if hulk was with EB all along on this plan or not. EB seemed like a heel all along, Hulk seemed to vary, especially the first few weeks. I'm also not sure what the fake argument before hardy turned at BFG was about unless maybe they were still not yet in agreement on it or on whether it'd be hardy or angle. That would also explain Anderson's comments and brawl with angle on reaction before BFG

My bet is that now that they have accomplished what they came together for, some of the different players in the new group may start to go their own ways after a few weeks and there may be further storylines within the storyline, but we'll see, I've been wrong before ..... they still haven't explained Joe's kidnapping or what dixie's surprise was going to be.

I also have a feeling that the whole ranking 's system has been to keep the title on their guys by limting other's title shots. Who were constantly in the top spots?... Anderson, RVD, Hardy, Abyss, all of whom initially were with hogan whether or not they were in on this particular plan at the time or not.


and to answer the most recent post's point about sting..... he's been trying to warn us/dixie and he tried to take the title off of RVD who I believe was aligned with them at the time. That said, the fact that he didn't do more,especially when she wanted answers when she suspended him, makes me wonder (although I also wonder what more he could do, heck choking the woman didn't get her attention), which along with them beating the crap out of Joe when JJ left at BFG (why else if Joe is not part of THEY?) is the only reason I had the version where he and nash end up joining THEY.

I hope I covered everything important.



-----------------------------
Unrelated, but I just saw Raw did a 2.9. Granted it was against MNF , but when's the last time that happened? And I keep seeing people blame Orton, who I always liked when I followed more regularly.

And I just read the angle with RVD for the 21st's impact spoilers and am confused. Did I miss something in the BFG results? Anyway, it may tie into one of the videos above, athough it seems very unlikely.

And finally, I don't think they are going here, but something odd and dark enough that I could see Heyman doing it would if he were there would be to say that THEY chose abyss and hardy because they were susceptible to mind control given abyss's mental problems and Hardy's drug problems. That seems to be a big theme in music videos these days, so why not wrestling?

I think I've posted more in the last 48 hrs than in all of my previous time on the boards so hopefully someone finds use out of it.

[Hyde Hill]

Ok that makes more sense but as Stennick said you can make anything make sense. Sting talking about Hogan and EB wanting power was clear from the get go even-though the way they progressed it was as muddled as hell. Still didn't mean that Deception and "They" where the same thing and doesn't explain a lot of other thing's with Joe's kidnapping being a prime example or makes it a good or interesting move.

Also I have no faith in TNA actually explaining the things you just pointed out but instead just moving on and leaving people in the dark or trying to figure it out ourselves like you just did the effort to do, kudos on that btw, fact remains that nostalgia and relevant over guys from elsewhere still dominate TNA screen-time etc wise by a big margin and as papa pointed out this does not feel "fresh".

Unless the nostalgia trip lessens I ain't coming back.

On RAW doing 2.9 they did below that 2 and 3 weeks ago. And normally WWE does higher against football, wrestling in general is gradually loosing its fanbase/popularity. Our biggest hope unfortunately is TNA and it will take some time again before they will get a clue (again).

[PeterHilton]

I hope I covered everything important.


You did a great recap. But unless they convey ALL of that to the viewing audience, it's utterly pointless.



Unrelated, but I just saw Raw did a 2.9. Granted it was against MNF , but when's the last time that happened? And I keep seeing people blame Orton, who I always liked when I followed more regularly.



The ratings have been dropping steadily for weeks now. I don't know how anyone can blame Orton since Cena/Nexus is still the focus of the shows.

[Self]

BTW Self how can you drive to a Dragon Gate show while living in the UK? Did they do a UK tour or where you in the US/Japan at the time?

Totally missed this before. Dragon Gate did a tour on the UK last month. Well, that is to say they ran two shows here. Not advertised all that well (although they both got 800ish sell outs, so clearly they advertised well somewhere) I only heard about the shows a week before, which was just enough time to snap up a ticket, book a day off work, fuel up the car and hit the road. 5 hour drive to get there, but both shows were awesome. Reignited my love of wrestling. I hope they made enough money to come back next year.

And as for Self's assessment (hah!), I agree. I have given precious little money to TNA in the two years plus that I've watched. But I have given them my time by watching Impact each week. I've added to those ratings. I've never felt inclined to buy the PPVs because TNA has never sold me on them. Its not money - I can more than afford them. But I'm not giving away my money - earn it. And TNA hasn't. As WWE has only rarely in the past few years.

Totally. I make decent money. I earn more than I need. I have disposable income I'd LOVE to spend on quality.

Although I alway balk at the idea of buying PPV's. $50 to watch a show? Seems steep. Hell, even the $15 DG-USA are charging for their upcoming iPPV has me unsure. It seems like a lot of money to watch something once.

[Johnny Fenoli]

First to Stenicks post: I agree on AJ (also perplexed about the whole TV title thing and how he's going to defend it every week, but never does). I agree on Morgan, not to mention he lost to Kendrick recently. I agree on lethal, he was the main reason to tune in for a few weeks there and now he's been reduced to nothing again. But I only partly agree on pope. He was on a roll before he kept getting attacked by wolfe. But that said, won some pretty big matches during the tournament (uncluding external matches like pinning angle in the final four tag match on impact), and most of those he lost were due to foul play. They may put the title back on Sting, maybe. Highly doubt it's going on Nash. I think Pope will have a strong push for a title shot before next year's end, either the world title, or taking the Legends/Global/TV title off of AJ.

As for the clues, I'm only doing this once, because it's very time consuming (6 hrs to be exact). It's not comprehensive, but it's enough for the major stuff, some of it very repetitive (which is why it amazes me some parts of this storyline were unseen by people). It's close to chronological order, a few may be off. This is the evidence for the 1st and most likely version I proposed before, based on the most obvious storylines, there are still other possiblities as to where it will go.

This starts after Sting returns to attack Hogan and abyss and starts brawlling with RVD


Sting's suspended, EB trying to prevent Dixie from knowing what's going on by surrounding her with security to prevent sting from getting near. Also don't let nash in on the first discussion about sting. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQq0lfZL0r8&feature=fvsr)

Deception interview Sting not sure if RVD is in on it or a pawn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1O__RFuBMk&feature=fvw)

Nash vs JJ, questions why JJ is with Hulk and EB (to oust dixie and get back some control) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGBCiT_B_wc)

Nash vs JJ part two, gives possible motive for why hulk and EB have been avoiding him (presumably, for bringing back hall and waltman, although I think EB was in on that), Nash is threatened with suspension like sting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xgGplZwarg&feature=channel)

sting and nash vs hogan, JJ, EB (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCS8sKIZZQg&feature=related)

Sting vs JJ, HH, and EB (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VtTrZRPa2c&feature=related)

Sting vs JJ and Hogan (JJ also faked being attacked by sting earlier to make sting look heel) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9FJ08mDX9M&feature=channel)

Segment 1: Hogan 'welcomes' Ev2. To me what I hear is Hogan is upset Dixie didn't let him in on Ev2, about the compairson of Ev2 to him, and he states he basically missed everything they did while he was in WCW with the nWo (he's slighting them, not complimenting them). Per Abyss THEY are pissed about Ev2 and hold Dixie responsible
Same clip, 2nd half of 2nd last segment, EB not happy with Dixie's decisions, tries to upstage her and sets up the Abyss RVD match. Abyss comes out and confronts, but never attacks EB (http://www.spike.com/full-episode/final-chapter/39039)

Hogan Kisses up to RVD and EV2 and gets them set up for the Abyss and Fortune's 1st attack that sidelines RVD, Flair also blames Dixie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwqn1EIWBj0&feature=related)

Fortune's second attack. Never see/hear them attack hogan and JJ, they brutally attack sting and nash, especially sting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKIkFWOIC3E)

Sting and Nash vs Flair and fortune (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrmsKaiSUXE&NR=1)

Segment 1: Hardy and Angle Draw while Hardy is in the ankle lock. EB advances both, Dixie overrides and makes a rematch. Bischoff looks upset (http://www.spike.com/full-episode/one-more-time/39951)

Segment 1 and part of segment 2 same show (but carried onto reaction): They Tie Again, EB is happy, dixie is not. Not sure it matters, but I do note the hebners are involved. Segment three reactions from EB and dixie. (http://www.spike.com/full-episode/tna-reaction/39974)

So here's my take whether it was a plan from the go or something that developed later, hogan and EB were conspiring to control TNA (warning, I found it pretty much impossible to keep this perfectly chronological). They brought in everybody (Hall, Waltman, the nasties, OJ, Bubba, Hardy, RVD, Anderson etc - not sure hall and waltment were intended by HH and EB, although EB seemed in on it). I doubt any of the last three were in on it initially and I don't think they are with fortune (that monday night hogan/abyss, flair AJ match was just to make headlines to compete with Raw). Anyway, Sting (who had skipped interviews and appearances since Hogan took over to show his disapproval and later voiced it while attacking Dixie) could smell a rat and attacked.

hogan knows the power that goes with the title and given that he and EB are very power hungry they wanted one of their guys to become champ (since hogan can't wrestle anymore). In comes RVD. I'm not sure if they were playing RVD from the start or not. My feeling is they had no reason to until Ev2 showed up and he showed allegiance to them (not to mention they were loyal to dixie who Hogan and EB are trying to screw over). This makes RVD one of the enemies so they need to take the title off of him. Hardy and abyss fail mutple times and thus they need a plan to Remove RVD (as abyss stated multiple times).

Initially, JJ also knew what was going on, but then joined HH and EB to oust Dixie and try to get some of the power back. Nash tries unsuccessfully to set up a meeting with HH and EB, meets tessmacher and suddenly sides with sting against HH (sting was previously suspended for his efforts and Nash is threateded with suspension. Dixie is given bodyguards to keep her from contacting these sting so that she doesn't find out what he knows). Pope later finds out from tessmacher and joins forces. In between, we see the first proof I'm aware of that fortune is with HH and JJ when the attack Sting and Nash only during the arguement between the four. I'm not sure when they joined forces, but my guess would be somewhere around the time Ev2 showed up. It wouldn't make since to have been earlier as they would have just kept the title on AJ and there would have been no reason for the long feud with flair and AJ. Basically they needed a large group to take care of the problem and these guys answered.

The smoke and mirrors sting and Nash keep talking about are Hulk and Eric constantly talking about how they are here for TNA, falsely befriending Dixie, and trying to make it look like they are the faces and Sting and Nash are the bad guys, in addition to the abyss 'THEY' storyline.,

We also see JJ try to recruit Joe and even though he later helps JJ, he intially refuses and states he's basically in this for himself and therefore he can't be trusted and gets screwed at the PPV

As for Hardy, I don't know when he's first in on it, but the seeds are planted with his losses to RVD and all of the overly positive interviews about their relationship. Going into BFG, I thought he may turn, but wasn't sure and thought anderson and or angle could have also turned. Looking back, I think they were definitely with Hardy (they called his near loss to angle a draw just as he was liekly about to tap), and angle may have been in on it as well and lead to believe he'd get the title win (as they drew again which is what EB wanted and not at all what dixie wanted and gives EB a back up plan in case something happens to hardy. Not to mention per the reports he tweeted he is upset they chose hardy overy him and the supposed phone call from hulk endorsing him at the start of impact)

Things I don't know: if hulk was with EB all along on this plan or not. EB seemed like a heel all along, Hulk seemed to vary, especially the first few weeks. I'm also not sure what the fake argument before hardy turned at BFG was about unless maybe they were still not yet in agreement on it or on whether it'd be hardy or angle. That would also explain Anderson's comments and brawl with angle on reaction before BFG

My bet is that now that they have accomplished what they came together for, some of the different players in the new group may start to go their own ways after a few weeks and there may be further storylines within the storyline, but we'll see, I've been wrong before ..... they still haven't explained Joe's kidnapping or what dixie's surprise was going to be.

I also have a feeling that the whole ranking 's system has been to keep the title on their guys by limting other's title shots. Who were constantly in the top spots?... Anderson, RVD, Hardy, Abyss, all of whom initially were with hogan whether or not they were in on this particular plan at the time or not.


and to answer the most recent post's point about sting..... he's been trying to warn us/dixie and he tried to take the title off of RVD who I believe was aligned with them at the time. That said, the fact that he didn't do more,especially when she wanted answers when she suspended him, makes me wonder (although I also wonder what more he could do, heck choking the woman didn't get her attention), which along with them beating the crap out of Joe when JJ left at BFG (why else if Joe is not part of THEY?) is the only reason I had the version where he and nash end up joining THEY.

I hope I covered everything important.




Wow... great job LT... that was nice, I actually like and support the whole thing. They should do this for the next episode of iMPACT tomorrow.

It LOOKS like it was planned out and storylined well in advance. So, I give them a ton of credit for that. Jarrett, Hogan and Bischoff are the power hungry ones... Abyss is their minion who's a Hogan disciple that they can use to destroy whatever gets in their way. Fourtune, are in it for the money.

Then on the good guy side you have Sting and Nash, who've been trying to warn us the whole time. You've got Miss Tessmacher (named after the character from the Superman movie who is very similar) playing both sides of the fence, giving info to Nash and Pope. The Pope/Jay Lethal stuff didnt play just right because Pope was injured, so their storylines are confusing and less thought out because of this. Lethal since Pope came back has been pushed back down allowing Pope to move back into the spotlight. RVD, stuff makes total sense the way you layed it out... They wanted him at first, but his loyalty is always going to be to ECW. He couldn't be played... Instead the went with the one who is weak, just see his addiction history...

Jeff Hardy, I think the writers chose him mainly for the shock value. I think the use of him is what threw me off the most at first. Him paired with Abyss, who I was thinking was building up to a "darker/eviler" storyline, got me confused, when you throw Jarrett in the mix. A better way to go, to me, from the beginning would have been Matt Morgan in the Abyss role. Then, I personally wouldn't have gone off on my on path in my mind.

So now you got Angle, who the whole time thought HE was going to be in Hardy's role, he even grew his beard out for it. But instead they chose Hardy, so now he's in this tweener spot. Mad they didn't choose him as their champ, instead went with Hardy.

The face/heel lineup looks like this, right?:

The bad guys: Abyss, Hardy, Jarrett, Hogan, Bischoff, with the help of Fourtune

The Good Guys: Sting, Nash, Pope, EV2.0

Then the tweeners: Angle and Anderson; oh and Miss Tessmacher.

--------

just went to the TNA page to look for something like this, and looked at the roster. I haven't been on this site in a long long time, why is Amazing Kong and Roxxi still on the roster? Weird that they've added people like Cookie (no Robbie) , but haven't removed Kong and Roxxi...

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah they are notoriously bad with their roster updates. I don't see Kong though but Roxxi is still on there yeah.

In the background Black and white/grey for Abyss, Bisch, Hog, and Jeff? Oh come on. Next thing we know Joe will feel betrayed by everyone and he starts playing the Sting role, hell they maybe go so far as having Sting give him his bat and Joe starts hanging around in the rafters ffs.

[Astil]

Why didn't Pope, Sting and Nash come out and say "They're gonna recreate nWo guys."

Why did Sting take RVD's title belt.

Why did Hardy turn? For the lols?

Why did Hogan bring in RVD, just to mess with him?

[20LEgend]

Liontamer, brilliant post actually makes me hate this angle less, great job

[PeterHilton]

Liontamer, brilliant post actually makes me hate this angle less, great job

It is a brilliant post and it's a really well done recap. My only criticism is that - unless TNA actually does some kind of video recap or has one of the characters point out these clues - most people won't pick up on it.

Even 'Lost' did those 'this is what's happened up to now' episodes.

So TNA needs to follow up ..preferably soon..to take advantage of how 'smart' the story seems once it's laid out.

[Hyde Hill]

It is a brilliant post and it's a really well done recap. My only criticism is that - unless TNA actually does some kind of video recap or has one of the characters point out these clues - most people won't pick up on it.

Even 'Lost' did those 'this is what's happened up to now' episodes.

So TNA needs to follow up ..preferably soon..to take advantage of how 'smart' the story seems once it's laid out.

THIS, like I said in different words. And fill up the plot holes left behind.

[Stennick]

POTENTIAL SPOILER:

Apparently Sting has a shoulder injury and this set of tapings is his last with the company with his contract running out in December.

If this is true and if Nash is really leaving that has got to be a bad break for TNA.



Credit the Wrestling Observer

[20LEgend]

It is a brilliant post and it's a really well done recap. My only criticism is that - unless TNA actually does some kind of video recap or has one of the characters point out these clues - most people won't pick up on it.

Even 'Lost' did those 'this is what's happened up to now' episodes.

So TNA needs to follow up ..preferably soon..to take advantage of how 'smart' the story seems once it's laid out.

Yeah they really do as I didn't read into that much and i'm sure most TNA viewers won't have so heres hoping they make it seem logical somewhat on tV


EdiT:
POTENTIAL SPOILER:


Credit the Wrestling Observer

Hope that isn't true

[Johnny Fenoli]

Why didn't Pope, Sting and Nash come out and say "They're gonna recreate nWo guys."

Why did Sting take RVD's title belt.

Why did Hardy turn? For the lols?

Why did Hogan bring in RVD, just to mess with him?



MY GUESSES....

1. They felt it, and knew it, but weren't sure? Scared to loose their jobs? Would end the storyline too early, lol

2. Because he thought RVD could be part of it, and the belt represents power?

3. He's the one that's popular and they could control, he's thought to be of weaker mind, due to addictions? Shock value?

4. He's popular with the fans, and Hogan could get the fans over on his side? But then realized RVD was loyal to the fans and ECW... not to money, power and Hogan?

.... in the end... I dont know, I'm just guessin'...

[PeterHilton]

POTENTIAL SPOILER:



Credit the Wrestling Observer

Meh. it potentially de-rails the 'intricate storyline' but they could also just cover it up by having Eric fire them both for insubordination.

One of those guys is realistically way past his prime and usefulness. The other? He's a natural fit for one last run with the E, a HOF induction, Legends deal, and an appearance at WM in Atlanta.

[Astil]

3. He's the one that's popular and they could control, he's thought to be of weaker mind, due to addictions? Shock value?

.... in the end... I dont know, I'm just guessin'...

As a Hardy mark, why would his character do it? I can see why Hogan would want Hardy. :)

[djthefunkchris]

It is a brilliant post and it's a really well done recap. My only criticism is that - unless TNA actually does some kind of video recap or has one of the characters point out these clues - most people won't pick up on it.

Even 'Lost' did those 'this is what's happened up to now' episodes.

So TNA needs to follow up ..preferably soon..to take advantage of how 'smart' the story seems once it's laid out.

Ok, LT put in quite the post there, and this is the second time PeterHilton has said what I quoted here. This is where I am in the thread, and I'm not sure I'll read the rest, might just pop to the end and try to keep up there for... tonight anyways.

I agree 100% with PH on this. They (TNA) needs to "recap" this stuff, in the same manner that LionTamer laid it out. If they did this, it would be seen in a much brighter light.

I still say that it's not going to hurt them half as much as reading this thread would lead one to believe. In fact, I think it's going to help them, but we will see.

[Johnny Fenoli]

As a Hardy mark, why would his character do it? I can see why Hogan would want Hardy. :)



Ummm.... He was upset at RVD for something? He wants the title? They promised him they'd bring his brother in?

I dont know... what ya think?

[Chikbot]

for some weird reason i believe matt got released a month ago and his wacko twitter postings are him planning to come to tna as a vigilante sorta guy

[Stennick]

If that were the case the WWE would have future endervered him on their website. I'm kind of curious why they haven't with all the crap he's talked on his twitter.

Speaking of Matt's twitter. He mentioned Jeff told him three weeks ago that he was turning heel. Now if Eric and whoever else had planned on Jeff turning months ago I'm sure they would have let him know and I'm sure he would have let his brother know before three weeks ago. Makes me think that they picked Jeff to be part of this a month ago which is an interesting thought.

The other thing is back in what June? Dixie mentioned a "big change" then about a month ago she said that "big change was coming soon" then at some point she mentioned the big change going down on 10-10-10 now my question is clearly the "They" story had to be the "big change" since nothing else went down the entire show.

Why would Dixie make a big deal out of this on her twitter account to then act "horrified" when it went down. I think that would be pretty silly for her to advertise constantly on her twitter about this big change and then act "horrified and shocked". Why say anything? Especially when Abyss is going to say the EXACT same thing over and over and over and over again "10-10-10" was beat into everyone's skull. Its not like Dixie's twitter was going to reach anyone that iMpact. I think its just Dixie being Dixie.

I know everyone seems to have turned the wheel on this storyline and I'll give them credit that they MAY have planned some of this out. Hogan, Bischoff, Sting at the very least. That being said they DRAGGED this out, they could have accomplished this same thing in three months and instead drug it out for seven months.

Although there were clues to it, I'm not interested in it. I mean seriously Hogan as a heel? The guy can't even hardly walk what good is he going to be in this storyline? JJ as a top heel in a main event heel stable? Because TNA has never RAN that story before. Eric Bischoff started out as a "face" standing in the ring with Hogan, ripping up "scripts" or "run sheets" and promising a new era in TNA. He then turned heel and started making the life of Foley and Jarrett heel constantly. He then turned face again, and now he's heel again. Thats FOUR turns in EIGHT months. Seriously who cares about somebody that switches from heel or face on average every two months. Hardy turning is fine, I'm not sure I like it since Jeff is pretty awful on the mic and I have no interest hearing Hogan, Eric and JJ talk for him but I have no problem with it. Abyss as a heel doesn't bother me either but all in all the stable is pretty stupid and I don't care if they did plan this out for seven months I say its pretty useless.

On TOP of all that mess

SPOILERS

Now Flair joins and they have ELEVEN "top heels"? Seriously somebody is bound to get lost in the shuffle. Eric just said "we only have two hours we can't feature everyone" so you decided to plant 11 guys into ONE stable. So you need atleast half of that "fighting" them right? So we're looking at NEARLY 20 guys involved in one giant storyline. Isn't this EXACTLY what the nWo was? A giant heel stable that consumed nearly the entire show and just beat you over the head week after week with the story?

Atleast Evolution, The Horsemen, DX, The Corporation they kept their numbers fairly short 4-8 guys and they would rotate in and out of the group. They would have two or three feuds on the show and that would be it. With the nWo the ENTIRE promotion revolved around this one story and it gets old.

Now on the 10-21 spoilers its revealed that one of the EV2 guys is in this thing too. So now we're going to add ANOTHER heel to this already giant stable? Why not turn the whole damn promotion heel.

Thats why I'm not going to watch anymore, its not that this "doesn't make sense" anythin in pro wrestling can be made to make sense. I've seen Dustin Rhodes dressed up as a giant baby and get stunnered into a port a potty. So I've truly seen it all in pro wrestling. "making sense' is relative. My problem is its just not a GOOD storyline. I've seen these guys in these roles 15 years ago.

I want something NEW and heel Hogan, heel Jarrett, heel Eric Bischoff, and a GIANT 10+ man heel stable that will likely take up nearly the entire show in the coming weeks is just NOT new, its not fresh and its not worth watching.

/rant

[Basmat01]

POTENTIAL SPOILER:


Credit the Wrestling Observer

Why would it be a bad break? just means that there is now a chance for two talent to step up and take those spots

[Stennick]

Why would it be a bad break? just means that there is now a chance for two talent to step up and take those spots

Spoiler

The entire storyline has been built on Sting knowing everything.

If this week's tapings are really it for him he doesn't even get to confront any of them in the ring. From a storyline perspective it would be a bad break.

It would be like Sting randomly retiring before Starrcade ever happened. Sure the story could have gone on without him but from a storyline perspective its nice to have closure and now if thats true it won't be there. That and he's been so vital to TNA and one of the few guys willing to put over AJ, Abyss and whoever else. For both him and Nash to just randomly leave TNA seems unfortunate that they didn't get a "proper" send off at best and strange at worst.

[sebsplex]

Great post LT. There's definitely some structure in this convoluted mass of a storyline if you look for it, although I can't help but feel that a lot of the time, TNA have been covering bases with a lot of these segments and angles with only a general idea of the final outcome. It seems like a scattergun approach to booking. With several aborted feuds, the throwaway segments and other seemingly illogical facets it's difficult to pick what matters and what doesn't. You could practically link this storyline back to anything that's happened in TNA since H&B arrived and make some sort of connection. Maybe the Jarrett/Bischoff feud was always an elaborate plan to get rid of Foley. Maybe Brooke Hogan is part of 'They', maybe Lacey Von Erich is after saving Abyss from that false attack/arrest angle with Chelsea (another storyline that just got dropped), maybe Earl Hebner's part of 'They' for his part in the Orlando Screwjob, maybe it was part of the plan to knock Scott Hall off of the wagon and get him released.

It's up to TNA now to convey what mattered and what didn't whilst avoiding cheap swerves and sell this group and this seven month long saga - and turn make the outcome pay off.

[juggaloninjalee]

Great post LT. There's definitely some structure in this convoluted mass of a storyline if you look for it, although I can't help but feel that a lot of the time, TNA have been covering bases with a lot of these segments and angles with only a general idea of the final outcome. It seems like a scattergun approach to booking. With several aborted feuds, the throwaway segments and other seemingly illogical facets it's difficult to pick what matters and what doesn't. You could practically link this storyline back to anything that's happened in TNA since H&B arrived and make some sort of connection. Maybe the Jarrett/Bischoff feud was always an elaborate plan to get rid of Foley. Maybe Brooke Hogan is part of 'They', maybe Lacey Von Erich is after saving Abyss from that false attack/arrest angle with Chelsea (another storyline that just got dropped), maybe Earl Hebner's part of 'They' for his part in the Orlando Screwjob, maybe it was part of the plan to knock Scott Hall off of the wagon and get him released.

It's up to TNA now to convey what mattered and what didn't whilst avoiding cheap swerves and sell this group and this seven month long saga - and turn make the outcome pay off.

Hopefully they tie up all loose ends and explain everything using video clips. That would help and be kinda interesting I think.

[sabataged]

Personally i look at this storyline like it is Samoa Joe against the world.

[juggaloninjalee]

Personally i look at this storyline like it is Samoa Joe against the world.

If that is the case maybe he will get the Goldberg push again.

[PeterHilton]

Although there were clues to it, I'm not interested in it. I mean seriously Hogan as a heel? The guy can't even hardly walk what good is he going to be in this storyline? JJ as a top heel in a main event heel stable? Because TNA has never RAN that story before. Eric Bischoff started out as a "face" standing in the ring with Hogan, ripping up "scripts" or "run sheets" and promising a new era in TNA. He then turned heel and started making the life of Foley and Jarrett heel constantly. He then turned face again, and now he's heel again. Thats FOUR turns in EIGHT months. Seriously who cares about somebody that switches from heel or face on average every two months. Hardy turning is fine, I'm not sure I like it since Jeff is pretty awful on the mic and I have no interest hearing Hogan, Eric and JJ talk for him but I have no problem with it. Abyss as a heel doesn't bother me either but all in all the stable is pretty stupid and I don't care if they did plan this out for seven months I say its pretty useless.

Thats why I'm not going to watch anymore, its not that this "doesn't make sense" anythin in pro wrestling can be made to make sense. I've seen Dustin Rhodes dressed up as a giant baby and get stunnered into a port a potty. So I've truly seen it all in pro wrestling. "making sense' is relative. My problem is its just not a GOOD storyline. I've seen these guys in these roles 15 years ago.

I want something NEW and heel Hogan, heel Jarrett, heel Eric Bischoff, and a GIANT 10+ man heel stable that will likely take up nearly the entire show in the coming weeks is just NOT new, its not fresh and its not worth watching.

/rant[/COLOR]

Totally agree. I commend liontamer for putting together such a great recap, but the fact that this has been in the works for so long doesn't make it a GOOD storyline.

As Stennick said, the fact that it took this long to do a rehash of the nWo - something that a ton of TNA fans were afraid would happen since the day Eric and Hogan joined - doesn't make it any better.

[Stennick]

TNADixie:
Just finished watching the LOST series. Better late than never. I am more lost than ever but loved it. Not everything needs to make sense.
Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:45:01 PM via web

That explains so much

[PeterHilton]

TNADixie:
Just finished watching the LOST series. Better late than never. I am more lost than ever but loved it. Not everything needs to make sense.
Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:45:01 PM via web

That explains so much

It's like someone tried to explain the storyline to her and said "it's like Lost, Dixie."

Dixie: What's that?

And then someone hands her a DVD set and tells her to take a few days off.

[Stennick]

Thats what I was thinking. atleast I live in a world where Dixie makes Jim Herd look like a smart wrestling guy.

[TDubRaiders]

HAHA...Stennick I remember seeing that tweet when she first posted it and all I could think to myself was '"oh god" Russo could come up with anything he wants as long as he sells it well and she's good with it. Sucks for TNA

[crownsy]

-- TNA Wrestling's decision to turn Jeff Hardy heel was made approximately seven weeks ago. The creative department felt that it was adamant that the group Abyss had been referring to as "they" for the past several months include the TNA World Heavyweight Champion and it was determined that Hardy and Rob Van Dam were the prime options. credit:PWinc

Thats your reason for turning a guy who should be gold as the face of your company and who connects with the crowd as a babyface way more than on the stick? because he had the belt at the time?

If your going to trun a guy like Jeff hardy, a man who has never played a heel well (not that he's had much chance...I think i've only seen him heel very early in his career if ever), you need better justification and thought behind the angle than "uhh....he's gonna have the belt at the time right?"

Isn't that something you want to be building in the "months" this angle was on going before hand? The turning of one of your top drawing faces should probably be incorporated into that earlier than a month and a half ago.

P.S spoiler

Rumor site also had a clip of Jeff's first heel promo....good god. "IA'H didn't seeeell out.....IA'H sold INNNNNNNN (stupid grin)

What a fantastic heel with his thick accent and horrible timing on the mic :rolleyes:

Oh also, Hogan's heel promo was terrible, from the same recap. It was literary "yea, were the NWO again, complete with calling myself hollywood! I told ya i would change this entire industry brother!" :

[Stennick]

LT recapped this storyline and again great job by him.

BUT, this is a case of the fans knowing the story better than the creators (star wars anyone?).

I truly believe this entire thing outside of Sting/Hogan/Eric/Aybss turn's were created roughly two months ago when Dixie first announced on her twitter the big change. Hardy and JJ I'm willing to bet came along at this time. Again though its not about what was planned and what wasn't planned its still the nWo and I don't know if anyone can dispute that at this point he's even calling himself Hollywood Hogan again. And the fact that they took seven months to recreate the worst version yet of the nWo AFTER already TRYING to do the nWo at the start with the "Band". Seriously just give up, the nWo is gone, dead and buried. The best rendition of the nWo I've seen since 1997 is the Nexus.

Pertaining to Spoilers.

As for Fortune it seems like they showed up the night of the tapings and they said "oh yeah you're with Hogan's group now".

I truly think whatever Ric does there will be Hogan right there to rip it away from him. If Ric Flair dies Hogan will die at his funeral just to steal his heat.

[Hyde Hill]

Lolz Stennick.

And if they wanted a heel champion why not Anderson or Angle? Oh because they would be more obvious? Well who else has prominatly been face for most of his wrestling career or tenure in TNA? Hmm Sting, ooooops, Pope? Nope started heel, AJ? Oops, Joe? Oops, Daniels? Oops. Kaz? Ooops. Turn turn turn turn turn turn turn guh. I think on the whole roster the only one that has been consistently heel or face are Taylor Wilde and Madison as Shark Boy has just been released and Daffney is more a tweener.

[Hyde Hill]

PWI is reporting Nikita aka Katie Lea has signed with the company. Good one seems the KO's are getting some love again.

Still letting Kong, Flash etc go in the first place was a mistake.

PS Sharky is not released just moved to ref and agent and removed from the roster page, same goes for the Suicide character.

[Stennick]

Speaking of my Daffney why hasn't she been around? Wait is she still hurt from Cheap Untalented Awesome Kong? (Rosie)

[djthefunkchris]

So, umm... Let's all watch TNA Tonight! :D

[crownsy]

So, umm... Let's all watch TNA Tonight! :D

I'm set, but you go head and give me a review. in all seriousness, thats the only way i'm ever wasting my time with them again after this last year and BFG, if people start interesting me in this thread again.

[Stennick]

Spoiler:

Katie Lea has signed with TNA. Reports are they need some women to wrestle on Xplosion since their too busy doing a WWE feud for their TNA women's championship that was supposed to be "different" than what the "divas" were doing.

Ok so only the first sentence has been reported the rest is creative licence.

[djthefunkchris]

Mickey James will win the TNA Knockouts championship, then take it to the WWE. Wouldn't that be classic, lol.

[Hyde Hill]

Ah come on Stennick you can do better then that your Flair funeral was brilliant. Yeay Dexter's finished d-loading gonna watch that! Hope but not expecting TNA to pay this off anyway I'll read here and a review and untill they consitantly get closer to the no 1 to 8 ordering I posted a while back I ain't coming back. Still like to discuss wrestling though.

[Stennick]

Hyde you've read my TNA postings for long enough, you should know better than to expect more than one of my nuggets to be gold :)

[Johnny Fenoli]

45 Minutes in... No match yet... Yet... I'm enjoying it... yeah, I said it...

At the 52 minute mark... Madison Rayne dominated Tara in 10 seconds to reclaim the Knockout title...

Still no match yet...


one hour... no match yet....

Still enjoying it... Eric Young cracks me up.

[Stennick]

So there has been an hour without a wrestling match?

[Johnny Fenoli]

So there has been an hour without a wrestling match?

one hour and six minutes. I dont count Tara laying down so Madison can pin her.

[cmdrsam]

Must be a tribute show for Kevin Nash. Didn't he once book WCW once where the first hour of the three hour show did not even have one match?

[Johnny Fenoli]

Must be a tribute show for Kevin Nash. Didn't he once book WCW once where the first hour of the three hour show did not even have one match?

LOL... here Nash, your last night, you get the book again big fella....

Quick someone have Joe go on an undefeated streak... Nash needs to pin somebody.

[Johnny Fenoli]

at the 1 hour 15 minute mark, TNA still hasn't held one real match.

Yes this is my running diary.

Yes, I still enjoy it.

They didnt explain everything like Liontamer did.... I thought they where going to, the eluded to it... I still hope they put together a video package and run it on the next couple of shows.

I dont really see the need of having Fourtune involved at all, but whatever... It's TNA, they're like my special cousin who's done all his homework, but forgot to put his name on it.



EDIT:
UH OH.... A MATCH!!! One hour, 16 minutes in... Abyss vs Samoa Joe.

[Gouge]

You know what I love? TNA spending $15,000 on Jwoww, having Jwoww go on Twitter to promote it (Note she said "Watch me on TNA for the first hour and then watch Jersey Shore at 10), hyping the hell out of this Cookie/Jwoww segment and so many people talking about how this was such a brilliant business decision.... what does TNA do? Have Hogan Knows Best for 45 minutes and a fingerpoke of doom for the first hour. Have the Jwoww/Cookie showdown go up against a new episode of Jersey Shore in the second.

Oh look, wrestling. At 1 hour 15 minutes.

[Johnny Fenoli]

You know what I love? TNA spending $15,000 on Jwoww, having Jwoww go on Twitter to promote it (Note she said "Watch me on TNA for the first hour and then watch Jersey Shore at 10), hyping the hell out of this Cookie/Jwoww segment and so many people talking about how this was such a brilliant business decision.... what does TNA do? Have Hogan Knows Best for 45 minutes and a fingerpoke of doom for the first hour. Have the Jwoww/Cookie showdown go up against a new episode of Jersey Shore in the second.

Oh look, wrestling. At 1 hour 15 minutes.

Yeah, that's brilliant....... :rolleyes:

How stupid do you have to be, you have this heffer on so she brings her fans to you, that and the main stream exposure...

[Johnny Fenoli]

Samoa Joe vs Abyss ended in a 4 minute barn burner... and of course... there was blood. This isn't your lil brothers sports entertainment...

[djthefunkchris]

Samoa Joe vs Abyss ended in a 4 minute barn burner... and of course... there was blood. This isn't your lil brothers sports entertainment...

I think they left off the "Sports" part... or the wrestling anyways, lol.

I am enjoying it though, even now with Bischoff telling off the gossip girl.

Joe vs. Abyss.... The blood didn't help that match, but the high kicks by Joe did... Although they didnt' seem to have any effect worthy of them.

[Johnny Fenoli]

OK... One hour and 33 minutes in, we've had 1 four minute match...
Now it's Pope vs Fourtune... yeah 1 vs 5.

I'm still enjoying it though...

[Johnny Fenoli]

Pope's match vs 5 people lasted as long as the Abyss vs Joe match... Pope is a bad man.

JWow, looks like a man.

[Stennick]

I'm not watching but I can't imagine enjoying a pro wrestling show with only four minutes of wrestling and the show is nearly over.

That being said atleast you guys are enjoying it.

[jwt13]

I've enjoyed this alot

[The Final Countdown]

I'm not watching but I can't imagine enjoying a pro wrestling show with only four minutes of wrestling and the show is nearly over.
Me neither. I'd be bored out of my mind watching that. But hey, to each his own. If people are enjoying it, cool.

[Johnny Fenoli]

I'm not watching but I can't imagine enjoying a pro wrestling show with only four minutes of wrestling and the show is nearly over.

That being said atleast you guys are enjoying it.

Pfft... 8 minutes thank you.... and there's still 10 minutes to go, so we might have time to squeeze in a couple matches....

and yes, it has been fun. :)

[MasterJ]

J Woow=Ratings

[Johnny Fenoli]

Hey Brits and other non Reaction getters... looks like you're going to miss yet another main event finale.... 6 minutes left, and they are just walking to the ring....

[djthefunkchris]

Now we get to the nit and gritty... I wonder how many people are going to run in on this one?

[djthefunkchris]

Hey Brits and other non Reaction getters... looks like you're going to miss yet another main event finale.... 6 minutes left, and they are just walking to the ring....

How un-global of them... :o

[MasterJ]

IMO Hardy has a lot of potential as a heel this time around he is reminding me of a Raven type

[Johnny Fenoli]

How un-global of them... :o


LOL... they're just trying to maintain Cult status at this point... They dont wanna move up to fast.

This whole main event is going to be on Reaction.... it hasn't even started yet, they're still at commercial and it's 10.

[djthefunkchris]

Definately looks like this match is happening in the third hour guys. Sorry for those that can't watch, but you can always check out the forum, ;)

[Johnny Fenoli]

IMO Hardy has a lot of potential as a heel this time around he is reminding me of a Raven type

yeah, EXACTLY what I was thinking... I actually wonder if he wrote the promo for him.

RVD's been pulling the Sting lately... wrestling in a T Shirt.... Man Boobs? We're officially watching Reaction right now... dont tell us, or we might change the channel.

[djthefunkchris]

yeah, EXACTLY what I was thinking... I actually wonder if he wrote the promo for him.

I hope he didn't write the "Anti-Christ of Wrestling" part though... just, I don't know.. Would be cool I guess if he turns into "The Phenom!", lol.

[djthefunkchris]

I really miss Carlito whenever I see RVD for some reason.

I would like this alot of Anderson would chew up an apple, and spit it on RVD right now.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Note to MOD makers... TNA just put on a show that had 10% wrestling... 90% angles...

now, run n MOD THAT!... HOMEBOY!

[MasterJ]

Note to MOD makers... TNA just put on a show that had 10% wrestling... 90% angles...

now, run n MOD THAT!... HOMEBOY!

But with that said it was the best show they have put on in some time

[Johnny Fenoli]

But with that said it was the best show they have put on in some time


I agree. Honestly.

[djthefunkchris]

Note to MOD makers... TNA just put on a show that had 10% wrestling... 90% angles...

now, run n MOD THAT!... HOMEBOY!

Well, that would be true if the show was only 80 minutes long, but since it's what... 120 minutes long, that's like 7% I believe (well, I hate to say it, but it's 6.66%.

[Stennick]

Thats awesome, I don't care if it was the best angles ever done in pro wrestling I would never watch a show with 7% wrestling. I don't watch wrestling for sub par acting I watch wrestling for wrestling.

After this show nobody can talk about the WWE needing to put more wrestling on their shows so thats nice.

Glad to hear it was a good show for those that enjoyed it. Maybe this will generate interest just not mine lol.

[djthefunkchris]

Great show, really... I liked it.

The ending of this match, I Just did NOT Expect! :D

[Johnny Fenoli]

Well, that would be true if the show was only 80 minutes long, but since it's what... 120 minutes long, that's like 7% I believe (well, I hate to say it, but it's 6.66%.

there was like 12 minutes, two four minute matches, and 4 minutes into the main event...

But, we can use your's because it fits the wrestling Anti-Christ better. :eek:

[Gouge]

I don't understand why they keep pulling this trick, if they have to resort to this kind of thing isn't that a sign that Reaction on TV just... isn't working? Is it worth pissing off the entire international market to pull this stunt and up ratings?

Why don't they just scrap Reaction and see if they can get another hour or half hour added if they want to do this every week? I mean Reaction is ok, I kinda like the whole documentary/natural feel to it, but I honestly think it would work better as a web series on TNA's YouTube.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Oh and THEY are known as "Immortal" now.

[Johnny Fenoli]

I don't understand why they keep pulling this trick, if they have to resort to this kind of thing isn't that a sign that Reaction on TV just... isn't working? Is it worth pissing off the entire international market to pull this stunt and up ratings?

Why don't they just scrap Reaction and see if they can get another hour or half hour added if they want to do this every week? I mean Reaction is ok, I kinda like the whole documentary/natural feel to it, but I honestly think it would work better as a web series on TNA's YouTube.

Agreed. It's stupid... why alienate the rest of world?

[MasterJ]

I thought THEY were "The New Regime"

[djthefunkchris]

I thought THEY were "The New Regime"

The New Regime = Hulk Hogan's Immortals... and when they turn face, it will be Hogan's Heroes! :eek:

[Johnny Fenoli]

The New Regime = Hulk Hogan's Immortals... and when they turn face, it will be Hogan's Heroes! :eek:

Dude... you have the script over there don't you... How soon do they turn again? I haven't read next weeks spoilers yet... :p

[The Final Countdown]

Oh and THEY are known as "Immortal" now.
Seriously? *Snicker*

[masterded]

Thats awesome, I don't care if it was the best angles ever done in pro wrestling I would never watch a show with 7% wrestling. I don't watch wrestling for sub par acting I watch wrestling for wrestling.

After this show nobody can talk about the WWE needing to put more wrestling on their shows so thats nice.

Glad to hear it was a good show for those that enjoyed it. Maybe this will generate interest just not mine lol.

This may come off wrong so I will start it with saying no disrespect. That argument is pointless and completely invalid unless one of two or both takes place. If the person compares TNA to WWE when talking amount of wrestling or they are seen praising this then make an statement on WWE something like only 35 minuets of wrestling on a 2 hour show is unacceptable. Though adding something like when the angles are that bad, would make it okay to say. Unless they link WWE to TNA or they say something that doesn’t gel with something they said before then what TNA does should not effect what people say about WWE and vice-versa.

[Stennick]

I agree with you and my only point was so many people say they watch TNA because even if the angles are bad and the storylines are pointless the wrestling is better. That is more than ok and again I'm a big fan of whatever you like is cool with me.

That being said I can't imagine people saying "I only watch TNA because the wrestling is better" I can't imagine that group of guys enjoying a show of eight minutes of wrestling or whatever it was.

I didn't watch the show so I'm not judging how good or bad the angles were I was just pointing out in the past there has been a large group of TNA fans (not even here just in general) that are very loyal because of AJ Styles, Joe, Daniels, MCMG, etc.

On a show with eight minutes of wrestling that wouldn't be a good reason to watch TNA.

Again though people seem to have enjoyed it so good for them. On the flip side I wouldn't enjoy a show with only eight minutes of angles either.

[djthefunkchris]

Dude... you have the script over there don't you... How soon do they turn again? I haven't read next weeks spoilers yet... :p
I umm... Well, I was just putting things together, trying to figure it out. I got the idea from LionTamer, so he should really get all the credit.

In all honesty though, I actually DID enjoy the show. I even thought Dixie was incredible, I think I felt a tear drop in my eye (not really, lol). But that was the best acting I seen out of her.... Ever..."Wipe the smug look off your face!"

This may come off wrong so I will start it with saying no disrespect. That argument is pointless and completely invalid unless one of two or both takes place. If the person compares TNA to WWE when talking amount of wrestling or they are seen praising this then make an statement on WWE something like only 35 minuets of wrestling on a 2 hour show is unacceptable. Though adding something like when the angles are that bad, would make it okay to say. Unless they link WWE to TNA or they say something that doesn’t gel with something they said before then what TNA does should not effect what people say about WWE and vice-versa.

Pretty sure he was saying that tongue in cheek, jokingly.

I never liked comparing one to make the other look bad... We enjoy it, there is room for more then one wrestling company, and we should try to respect other's for whichever one they like... People shouldn't feel compelled to have to "Choose", they should be able to enjoy them both without someone going "OMG, I can't believe your a TNA/WWE fan, you should watch WWE/TNA!"

[Stennick]

I agree there shouldn't be a "choose" but it does feel that way sometimes doesn't it? Either way I'm glad people enjoyed the show.

Honestly I'm really enjoying RAW these days and I'm sure there are people out there that are hating that so yeah it was more or less a tongue and cheek post.

[masterded]

I agree there shouldn't be a "choose" but it does feel that way sometimes doesn't it? Either way I'm glad people enjoyed the show.

Yeah it does which always bothered me. I am one of them people who just likes watching wrestling. Last time an ROH show came to town I went. The last time TNA came to town I went. When WWE comes here on the 24th I am going. I have been to one of the local Indys for the last 12 or so shows they have done. Heck I have taken vacation days to go see all 4. Hell I even went to a Wrestlelicous taping (it was a double bill with that indy F1rst Wrestling) and if it wasn’t for working on Saturday and Sunday with limited vacation days I would go to more local events. So when people act like I have to pick one it gets on my nerves. They are on different days and I have a DVR I don’t need to pick.

[djthefunkchris]

I agree there shouldn't be a "choose" but it does feel that way sometimes doesn't it? Either way I'm glad people enjoyed the show.

Honestly I'm really enjoying RAW these days and I'm sure there are people out there that are hating that so yeah it was more or less a tongue and cheek post.

Yes, it feels that way sometimes, and alot of times. The thing is I try not to get too caught up in that, and I think most here do as well. All wrestling fans want the same thing... another EPIC ERA! That's all we want.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Yes, it feels that way sometimes, and alot of times. The thing is I try not to get too caught up in that, and I think most here do as well. All wrestling fans want the same thing... another EPIC ERA! That's all we want.

That simple... why can't they just do it agian? Jeez...

Wait... TNA just pulled their nWo card.... I bet we see Vince back on TV soon on the other channel... The re-revolution will be televised.... :D

[Stennick]

Well they already have "Stone Cold" Randy Orton

[crownsy]

Immortal...wow.

They just should have gone with

"New World Organization" and made spray paint T-shirts.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Well they already have "Stone Cold" Randy Orton

so true... history repeats it self...

I think I missed the repeat of the Rick Martel vs Jake Roberts feud though.... :confused:

[Slagaholic]

I didn't see the show tonight but J-Woww's appearance on Impact is the cover story for Entertainment Weekly (according to Gerweck, I don't read that collection of soiled toilet paper) and TNA's been getting a good amount of mainstream press this week.

[juggaloninjalee]

I didn't mind the show and I am glad J-Cow beat the hell out of Cookie. Maybe soon we will see the real Ronnie destroy the guy Robbie E or whatever.

[MichiganHero]

J Woow=Ratings

no. JWow = Stupid name for a stupid girl.

Well, she ain't that stupid if she is getting 15k to appear on TNA. Get that girl an award.

[djthefunkchris]

no. JWow = Stupid name for a stupid girl.

Well, she ain't that stupid if she is getting 15k to appear on TNA. Get that girl an award.

You know, I keep seeing a big deal made out of 15k, with a sort of "celebrity" I guess.. Never watched Jersey Shore or whatever it's called, but I'm guessing more of a reality show or something... Never seen it so forgive me if I'm wrong.

Anyways, I can get up to 500 bucks at a nightclub that knows nothing about me, to DJ.... Now, I understand that's for at least four hours work, but in comparison to someone like Jazzy Jeff or some other "famous" DJ, it's nothing.

I've actually been offered 1500 (one/tenth of what she made) to DJ at an event on the beach.... They knew me though. This was probably 10 years ago, as I've not done anything in 10 years (still get asked around this time of year though, which makes me feel all warm inside, lol). IF I can make that much, I don't see why someone on a TV show couldn't make quite a bit more (I would expect people to make at least 10 times more then I can, if they are popular). I guess my point is, I would hope that TNA can afford 15k for a one time appearance by semi-popular stars. It's not like they are paying this everyday.

Is there another reason people are making a big deal about the money, that I'm not seeing?

[smurphy1014]

The New Regime = Hulk Hogan's Immortals... and when they turn face, it will be Hogan's Heroes! :eek:

http://sopstg.com/images/blog/col-klink-hogans-heroes.jpg

[juggaloninjalee]

You know, I keep seeing a big deal made out of 15k, with a sort of "celebrity" I guess.. Never watched Jersey Shore or whatever it's called, but I'm guessing more of a reality show or something... Never seen it so forgive me if I'm wrong.

Anyways, I can get up to 500 bucks at a nightclub that knows nothing about me, to DJ.... Now, I understand that's for at least four hours work, but in comparison to someone like Jazzy Jeff or some other "famous" DJ, it's nothing.

I've actually been offered 1500 (one/tenth of what she made) to DJ at an event on the beach.... They knew me though. This was probably 10 years ago, as I've not done anything in 10 years (still get asked around this time of year though, which makes me feel all warm inside, lol). IF I can make that much, I don't see why someone on a TV show couldn't make quite a bit more (I would expect people to make at least 10 times more then I can, if they are popular). I guess my point is, I would hope that TNA can afford 15k for a one time appearance by semi-popular stars. It's not like they are paying this everyday.

Is there another reason people are making a big deal about the money, that I'm not seeing?

I agree with you. Look what that $15k did. Got them publicity in places most wouldn't have thought about. So Bischoff can't get money for advertising and here he goes and pulls in a "talent" that will get the advertising for them.

[djthefunkchris]

http://sopstg.com/images/blog/col-klink-hogans-heroes.jpg

http://www.fightingwords.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/sgt-schultz-hogans-heroes.jpg

[jhd1]

http://www.fightingwords.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/sgt-schultz-hogans-heroes.jpg

The fact someone posted Sgt Shultz in this thread has made my day.

"I know nothing....nothing!" :D

[Hyde Hill]

Agreed. It's stupid... why alienate the rest of world?

It's more an editing thing. They didn't have the time or put in the effort/money with the live show. Hopefully TNA can edit it for their foreign markets without ReAction. If they don't then that is just dumb. Seems to me the promo's where very good but didn't explain much. I can understand having a promo heavy show to explain the fall out but then they should actually explain stuff!

[Hyde Hill]

I agree with you. Look what that $15k did. Got them publicity in places most wouldn't have thought about. So Bischoff can't get money for advertising and here he goes and pulls in a "talent" that will get the advertising for them.

It was a good advertising move for just 15k, too bad they had her appear on the second hour and MTV and TNA themselves didn't promote it more. Now if they can have TNA wrestling be featured on the Jersey Shore show itself then that would be awesome for TNA.

And no I don't personally like it but it is "hot" right and also on a Viacom entity now so use it.

[PeterHilton]

Anyways, I can get up to 500 bucks at a nightclub that knows nothing about me, to DJ.... Now, I understand that's for at least four hours work, but in comparison to someone like Jazzy Jeff or some other "famous" DJ, it's nothing.



The fact you dropped that name as a 'famous DJ' made me lol :)

[alden]

lol atleast it wasen't dj scribble......now that dude is famous.

I the fact of what they paid a huge deal because of tna is so small? What did the wwe pay mr. spears woops i mean keven federline for his group of shows? It was ALOT more then 15k i bet. I think fifteen thousend on a c list celeb is not unheard of. If it gets them publicity then more power to them.

[juggaloninjalee]

Do you guys think that Jeff Hardy can be the top heel?

I almost feel like they are too heavy on heels right now in general. I hope AJ Styles becomes a face soon and STAYS FACE!

[PeterHilton]

lol atleast it wasen't dj scribble......now that dude is famous.

I the fact of what they paid a huge deal because of tna is so small? What did the wwe pay mr. spears woops i mean keven federline for his group of shows? It was ALOT more then 15k i bet. I think fifteen thousend on a c list celeb is not unheard of. If it gets them publicity then more power to them.

15k is nothing for a c list celebrity...the only thing I question about TNA's use of JWoww is that they didn't use her more and/or they put her on in the second hour when her fans would turn over to Jersey Shore.

The show is hot and is just starting to make that transition to 'mainstream' (a line of Halloween costumes, an appearance on South Park, Situation on Dacing w/Stars, that awful E cover story) before it gets played out and no one cares. this was the perfect time to have them on.

[juggaloninjalee]

15k is nothing for a c list celebrity...the only thing I question about TNA's use of JWoww is that they didn't use her more and/or they put her on in the second hour when her fans would turn over to Jersey Shore.

The show is hot and is just starting to make that transition to 'mainstream' (a line of Halloween costumes, an appearance on South Park, Situation on Dacing w/Stars, that awful E cover story) before it gets played out and no one cares. this was the perfect time to have them on.

I agree they should have put her on in the 1st hour. Maybe hyped up a segment on Reaction too since Jersey Shore would be off and have her get involved slightly in the 2nd hour with something small like Ric Flair making a pass at her.

[Self]

$15,000 for a 2 minute appearance sticks out if you believe the rumors of what some of the TNA wrestlers are being paid. I have no idea if this is true or not, but I heard Madison Rayne gets $300 a shot. Madison may not be a ratings draw, but for some "celebrity" to waltz in and get paid 50 times more than her... that's a bit iffy. I'm not saying it's 'wrong', but it sticks out.

That being said, I reckon bringing in a character from Jersey Shore is an AWESOME move. With weekly, episodic television, you should latch onto these fads and milk them. Great idea, but from the sounds of it, poor execution from TNA. Seemed rushed and throwaway.

[Bigpapa42]

$15,000 for a 2 minute appearance sticks out if you believe the rumors of what some of the TNA wrestlers are being paid. I have no idea if this is true or not, but I heard Madison Rayne gets $300 a shot. Madison may not be a ratings draw, but for some "celebrity" to waltz in and get paid 50 times more than her... that's a bit iffy. I'm not saying it's 'wrong', but it sticks out.

Its a lot compared to what most of the talent on the roster is getting. But its not out of line for a celebrity appearance costs. Even a fairly crappy celebrity. When Vegas clubs and such bring in a "celebrity host", they can end up paying $50k-$100k...

[Stennick]

I think its more of the context that Kong, Gail, Flash, and so many others have left because TNA won't pay them. While at the same time their signing Mickie James, paying for this celeb.

I'm not saying Mickie isn't worth it but if you got 15G's for the celeb and money for Mickie James you don't have money to keep other Knockouts? Especially after BRAGGING about how your women are so talented, so much different, etc

[PeterHilton]

I think its more of the context that Kong, Gail, Flash, and so many others have left because TNA won't pay them. While at the same time their signing Mickie James, paying for this celeb.

I'm not saying Mickie isn't worth it but if you got 15G's for the celeb and money for Mickie James you don't have money to keep other Knockouts? Especially after BRAGGING about how your women are so talented, so much different, etc

I think it just shows the mindset of TNA's management. In TEW terms they value popularity way more than performance.

As for Jwoww...honestly, I'm most surprised she even did it. I mean..the girl is reportedly getting 400 K for her Playboy lay-out. I'm sorta shocked she even did the appearance...in a year from now she'll probably be 'too big' for something like TNA.

[Hyde Hill]

I think it just shows the mindset of TNA's management. In TEW terms they value popularity way more than performance.

As for Jwoww...honestly, I'm most surprised she even did it. I mean..the girl is reportedly getting 400 K for her Playboy lay-out. I'm sorta shocked she even did the appearance...in a year from now she'll probably be 'too big' for something like TNA.

Or as you said the fad will have passed. I rate celebrity appearances under the marketing column so to speak and not the talent column so her appearance has little to do with paying or not paying other talent etc. And if there is one thing TNA needs to spend more on it's marketing.

[juggaloninjalee]

Or as you said the fad will have passed. I rate celebrity appearances under the marketing column so to speak and not the talent column so her appearance has little to do with paying or not paying other talent etc. And if there is one thing TNA needs to spend more on it's marketing.

I completely agree with this. She made comments on Reaction about seeing herself in a wrestling ring someday. Do you think TNA will bring her back to get in the ring and wrestle?

[Hyde Hill]

I completely agree with this. She made comments on Reaction about seeing herself in a wrestling ring someday. Do you think TNA will bring her back to get in the ring and wrestle?

Jenna Morasca *cough* *cough* at least J Woww is still "relevant"

[PeterHilton]

Or as you said the fad will have passed. I rate celebrity appearances under the marketing column so to speak and not the talent column so her appearance has little to do with paying or not paying other talent etc. And if there is one thing TNA needs to spend more on it's marketing.

Y'know..i would've also said that about every single member of The Hills, but Lauren Conrad has turned herself into a media mogul and that Patridge girl is useless as hell but she's turned herself into a fixture on TV.

When you look at the amount of people that are famous - I mean REALLY famous - for doing absolutely nothing, I wouldn't bet against these Jersey Shore idiots.

I completely agree with this. She made comments on Reaction about seeing herself in a wrestling ring someday. Do you think TNA will bring her back to get in the ring and wrestle?

You're reading too much into it...all 'celebrities' say that kind of stuff when they make these appearances.

[juggaloninjalee]

I wouldn't want to see her wrestle. To see Ronnie in a shoot fight with Robbie E. That would be fun to watch... maybe... ok probably not.

[|Anderz|]

I want to see Donnie J beat up Robbie E.. :rolleyes:

[Hyde Hill]

We are still waiting on a final number but last night's TNA Impact scored 1.9 million viewers.

Source PWI.

Still questions remain if with a different "They" it would have been better or if this will rating will decline or grow over time or if the rating went down through the whole show aka putting people off.

[Hyde Hill]

J-Woww's segment on Impact last night ran at the same time as a commercial break on Jersey Shore.


Source 411

Ok so not as bad as having it on at the same time. Still doing that next week and promoting it this week also on MTV would have gotten a lot more bang for their buck.

[PeterHilton]

Source PWI.

Still questions remain if with a different "They" it would have been better or if this will rating will decline or grow over time or if the rating went down through the whole show aka putting people off.

Ok...that equals out to a 1.3 or 1.4 rating last night but on sheer number of viewers it's actually pretty good. Highest in a while..

[jwt13]

Highest since Jan 14th is what I read

[djthefunkchris]

The fact you dropped that name as a 'famous DJ' made me lol :)
Well, you know I'm old school... Lucky I didn't say Scott LaRock, or Magic Mike, or Jam Master J (RIP), or... heck, I should have said Wolfman Jack, for all it would matter with this crowd. I didn't want to use someone like Ludacris (started as a DJ), or any of the so called Video Dj's, or anyone that uses the push the beat buttons, and hit "mix", lol. I still have my Technique's, and I'll pull them out sometime in the future, I'm sure.

Or as you said the fad will have passed. I rate celebrity appearances under the marketing column so to speak and not the talent column so her appearance has little to do with paying or not paying other talent etc. And if there is one thing TNA needs to spend more on it's marketing.

Celebrity is different then talent, yes, but.... 300 a shot really sucks.. How do they afford their augmentations? That's only 300 a week if I'm reading the other posts right. I guess paper routes and May I take your order Sir? are relevant in the land of women's wrestling.... Really sucks.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Well, you know I'm old school... Lucky I didn't say Scott LaRock, or Magic Mike, or Jam Master J (RIP), or... heck, I should have said Wolfman Jack, for all it would matter with this crowd. I didn't want to use someone like Ludacris (started as a DJ), or any of the so called Video Dj's, or anyone that uses the push the beat buttons, and hit "mix", lol. I still have my Technique's, and I'll pull them out sometime in the future, I'm sure.



Celebrity is different then talent, yes, but.... 300 a shot really sucks.. How do they afford their augmentations? That's only 300 a week if I'm reading the other posts right. I guess paper routes and May I take your order Sir? are relevant in the land of women's wrestling.... Really sucks.



I always thought Jazzy Jeff is one of the best/ most famous DJ's out there/ever.... but you're my favorite.

[Hyde Hill]

Well, you know I'm old school... Lucky I didn't say Scott LaRock, or Magic Mike, or Jam Master J (RIP), or... heck, I should have said Wolfman Jack, for all it would matter with this crowd. I didn't want to use someone like Ludacris (started as a DJ), or any of the so called Video Dj's, or anyone that uses the push the beat buttons, and hit "mix", lol. I still have my Technique's, and I'll pull them out sometime in the future, I'm sure.



Celebrity is different then talent, yes, but.... 300 a shot really sucks.. How do they afford their augmentations? That's only 300 a week if I'm reading the other posts right. I guess paper routes and May I take your order Sir? are relevant in the land of women's wrestling.... Really sucks.

Well what the talent is paid is all guestimates and TNA does pay for travel etc. in general. which is why they like their talent Florida based and they shoot the shows in a row and which is why going on the road or live with the show is extra costly for TNA. The 300 bucks is probably per appearance and with 4 impact taping's a ppv and let's say 5 house shows that is 3k a month with travel and lodging paid for. That is not too shabby.

[alden]

It depends on how they count an apperence. I have seen companys count it not per show but per "day". Are they still doing two a day or are they doing one a day two days in a row? If they are doing two a day i would not be shocked to have they call that one apperence. I don't know how tna does there stuff though. If they are getting 3k a month that is not bad for an indy womans wrestler who has not paid her dues yet. I am sure for a guy like lets say joe will pull in 6 hundred a show. and guys like anderson who may not be on a writen contract probebly get 1000 to 1500 a show.

[djthefunkchris]

I always thought Jazzy Jeff is one of the best/ most famous DJ's out there/ever.... but you're my favorite.

And you sir, are by far my favorite Poster!

It depends on how they count an apperence. I have seen companys count it not per show but per "day". Are they still doing two a day or are they doing one a day two days in a row? If they are doing two a day i would not be shocked to have they call that one apperence. I don't know how tna does there stuff though. If they are getting 3k a month that is not bad for an indy womans wrestler who has not paid her dues yet. I am sure for a guy like lets say joe will pull in 6 hundred a show. and guys like anderson who may not be on a writen contract probebly get 1000 to 1500 a show.

I would have expected anyone on a weekly TV show, to be payed per show, and a different pay per non-Televised Show... Meaning, I would expect to make more money if I were on TV, then I would when it's a house show or something.

I know people that do Kareoke that make the same or more, then 300 a night. Just saying....

[matt1986]

Can someone please fill me in on what happened in the main event? We don't get Reaction here, so last we saw was Jeff Hardy hitting RVD and Anderson with a chair, then hitting the Twist of Fate on RVD, over Anderson... did anything happen after that?

[SaySo]

Source PWTorch:


In the weekly effort to prop up Reaction's rating, the "Reaction hour" began with the opening bell for TNA Impact's main event #1 contender match. Winner gets Jeff Hardy at Turning Point in November.

MR. ANDERSON vs. ROB VAN DAM -- #1 contender match to the TNA World Title

Anderson dominated early on as the default heel in the match-up. After a couple of nice counters and exchanges, RVD hit a split-legged moonsault for a close nearfall. RVD then missed with a Five-Star Frogsplash and both men sold on the mat. Eric Bischoff then walked down from the back with a purpose and whispered in the ref's ear. Bischoff told ref Hebner to follow him out of the ring
to the back. Hebner disappeared as RVD and Anderson continued to sell in the ring. Jeff Hardy then showed up with chair in hand. Hardy stormed the ring and cracked a chair over RVD, then Anderson's backs. Hardy proceeded to drop RVD with a Twist of Fate onto a chair while Anderson's arm was inside the chair. Rough looking spot. And, in now typical Impact main event fashion, the match concluded without a finish.

WINNER: No announcement in 11:00.

Read the rest of Reaction, click here (http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/tnaspecials/article_44524.shtml).

[The Two]

Can someone please fill me in on what happened in the main event? We don't get Reaction here, so last we saw was Jeff Hardy hitting RVD and Anderson with a chair, then hitting the Twist of Fate on RVD, over Anderson... did anything happen after that?
Don't know where you are, but here in the UK that's what we saw. You didn't miss anything. Apart from last week, the international version seems to have been being edited to include the start of ReAction in order to run until the end of the match.

[matt1986]

Don't know where you are, but here in the UK that's what we saw. You didn't miss anything. Apart from last week, the international version seems to have been being edited to include the start of ReAction in order to run until the end of the match.

I'm in Australia... and yeah that seems to be the case. Hopefully it stays like that! (Still think it's a stupid idea and only going to piss more people off!)

[Hyde Hill]

It will probably only be for the live shows, for the international viewers that is. As then TNA does not have enough time/money/effort to edit the show in time. For the US I understand why they do it, rating's bump and break viewing habits, but TNA has gone kinda overboard imho.

[matt1986]

Did anyone else find it a bit weird that Impact went on for over an hour with no matches? I know its sports entertainment, but it is still a wrestling show! I'm not even sure why they bothered to set the ring up??

Abyss and Jor for all of 4 minutes, then a 1 vs 5 handicap match?? Why???

Oh and followed by a main event with no conclusion... which in itself isn't necesarliy a bad thing, but considering nothing else had happened all night in the ring it might've been nice for us to see a match with an actual result!

I'm interested to see where TNA goes with the whole "They" angle. Whether it does turn into an nWo rip-off or whether they manage to take it in a new direction?

I know plenty of people don't like Bischoff, but I think the smug, obnoxious, power hungry heel Bischoff is so much more entertaining... glad they turned him and I hope he is used in that authority type role on screen.

For all the complaining, I must say one thing... I do want to tune in next week to see what happens next, so that must count for something?

[The Bus]

For all the complaining, I must say one thing... I do want to tune in next week to see what happens next, so that must count for something?

I agree totally. There are issues, but also to me it is still interesting. I watch WWE programming just every once in a while anymore, but I watch Impact/Reaction/PPV's as soon as I can.

[Eisen-verse]

I know plenty of people don't like Bischoff, but I think the smug, obnoxious, power hungry heel Bischoff is so much more entertaining... glad they turned him and I hope he is used in that authority type role on screen.

Agreed. I wasn't buying the whole "I'm Eric Bischoff and I'm a good guy" schtick he was doing after he was first brought in. Sure, he had some weasel tendencies but not enough to really be the 'Easy-E' character i've come to love. To be honest, If I were creating my own wrestling promotion and needed an authority figure at the helm, I would hire Eric in a split second to play that very smug, obnoxious, persona that he's come to perfect.

Made TNA interesting to see him back in that realm. That said, they could have hired a better actor to play the lawyer during their little spat. Eric owned him.

[jhd1]

That said, they could have hired a better actor to play the lawyer during their little spat. Eric owned him.

To be honest, he was so bad I thought he might really be a lawyer and not an actor. Now is that a good thing, or a bad thing... :p

[sebsplex]

Did anyone else find it a bit weird that Impact went on for over an hour with no matches? I know its sports entertainment, but it is still a wrestling show! I'm not even sure why they bothered to set the ring up??

Abyss and Jor for all of 4 minutes, then a 1 vs 5 handicap match?? Why???

Oh and followed by a main event with no conclusion... which in itself isn't necesarliy a bad thing, but considering nothing else had happened all night in the ring it might've been nice for us to see a match with an actual result!

Yeah there was a whole bunch of non-wrestling and the closest thing to a legitimate match with a legitimate finish was the Fourtune vs. Pope handicap match. The knockouts title 'match' was a glorified angle segment. As for the Jersey Shore tie-in, that could have been saved for another week really. It just seemed overwhelmed by everything else.

[maskedpropaganda]

I watched last impact earlier today and didn't really care about the whole Immortals/they issue and hoped that Fortune would had caused trouble instead of allying, but whatever. I WAS HOWEVER for the first time in his career impressed with a Jeff Hardy interview. That has to be something. Course it kinda seemed there with the second vid segment alittle Raven/Vampiro/dark for the sake of nothing type deal, but I like that type of character. Never would of picked Jeff to be able to really pull it off, but my impression has favored wanting to see more. RVD/Jeff Hardy feud? A wrestling promotion could do alot worst than that. TNA needs to let Dixie gather her little army (Sting, Samoa Joe, Matt Hardy, Pope, MCMG, Mr. Anderson etc.) and have the war quickly and not drag out the storyline though or any emotion gathered for it (good or bad) will wane.

[matt1986]

Speaking of the Robbie E/Jersey Shore storyline, I have to ask... why? Why are TNA mocking a TV show? They're not in competition, they have nothing to do with them? So why bother mocking them... I just dont see the point?

It would be like having someone come down and rip-off Jack Bauer from 24... it just wouldn't make any sense?

(Please correct me if I've missed something, because I've heard of the show, but never actually seen it... I've heard about the fist pumping, etc though.)

[juggaloninjalee]

Speaking of the Robbie E/Jersey Shore storyline, I have to ask... why? Why are TNA mocking a TV show? They're not in competition, they have nothing to do with them? So why bother mocking them... I just dont see the point?

It would be like having someone come down and rip-off Jack Bauer from 24... it just wouldn't make any sense?

(Please correct me if I've missed something, because I've heard of the show, but never actually seen it... I've heard about the fist pumping, etc though.)

They actually are kinda in competition since Jersey Shore is on Thursday nights when Impact is on.

[Basmat01]

I must admit it but I like Jersey Shore and I only watched TNA the other week just so I can see Jenni

[TDubRaiders]

I have pretty much given up on TNA. I just sold all my TNA DVD's I had on eBay this week. I bought 46 TNA DVD's pretty much all the PPV's from the beginning of TNA regular PPV's to now. I just can't watch it anymore. I have always hated Hogan and Bischoff even when they were in WCW. I just can't take TNA anymore. I usually could take the storylines that semi-made sense because at least the wrestling was really good but now it's a joke so I'm done. PWG and ROH for me now I guess.

[jhd1]

I've just watched Dixie slap Eric on TNA's youtube account - I can't believe no one has mentioned it yet (it was from last week's show, right?). Best. Slap. Ever. I don't mind Dixie on-screen (I know I'm in a minority) but she nearly decked him! :D

[Jaysin]

My only issue with Impact Thursday was the lack of in ring action. The Immortal story line could pan out nicely and the "dark" Jeff seems pretty awesome.

I loved his line about being the new Anti Christ in professional wrestling. It gave me a Vampiro/Raven vibe, which in my opinion is a good thing.

I'm really glad Bischoff is back to doing what he does best.

I actually felt bad for Cookie though, Jwoww beat the crap out of her.

Here's hoping they have more match time soon though.

[PeterHilton]

Speaking of the Robbie E/Jersey Shore storyline, I have to ask... why? Why are TNA mocking a TV show? They're not in competition, they have nothing to do with them? So why bother mocking them... I just dont see the point?



It's a character based on a really popular, really current pop culture stereotype. No different from characters based on rock bands, country singers, bikers, etc.

[matt1986]

It's a character based on a really popular, really current pop culture stereotype. No different from characters based on rock bands, country singers, bikers, etc.

Yeah, I see you what you mean and it's a fair point. I guess this just seems more of a total rip-off than a generic 'rock band' or 'biker' character. It could work though, I think we'll just have to wait and see.

I don't think TNA is as bad as what a lot of people are saying. Last weeks Impact was severly lacking in actual wrestling, so hopefully that was just a one-off. I'm interested to see where the storyline goes...

[The Stallion]

While the show was lacking in wrestling last week, the storylines that were advanced were advanced well. I really like the whole Jeff Jarrett / Kurt Angle altercation and the fact that Taz got involved was very cool. The spot where Jarrett threw Angle into the wall was done very well and is a good way to give Angle some time off. While the Jersey Shore stuff was not my cup of tea, I think it was done well. The characters of Robbie E and Cooke are annoying as hell, which I think is the point. The only issue I have with this segment, is that Jay Lethal should have made his was down and got into a brawl wit Robbie E while Jawooww (or however you spell her name) beat down Cookie. The Pope 5 on 1 made sence. He is the only one left from the group that opposed Bischoff and Hogan so now he gets the beat down. I see Samoa Joe becoming an unstoppable force once again and now that Angle is out of the way for a little while it opens room for a Joe/Jarrett showdown. I dont exactly see the whole Immortals thing as a nWo ripoff because. If it did not have Hogan and Bicshoff in it I dont think anyone woud made comparisons. I have a feeling that Dixie is going to round up the troups after a little while and get her company back. At first, after watching reAction I have the feeling that all these guys are going to be trying the whole "one man army" routine by taking on The Immortals and Fortune by themselves. However I see Joe, Pope, Tommy Dreamer, Matt Hardy (when he comes in because you know it's going to happen) and maybe a few others finally comming wise and teaming up to take back TNA. The main event also mae sence in te fact that The Immortals want o protect Hardy and kepp th World Title with them. How do you do that? You eliminate the compitition thats how. I do hope more actual wrestling happens on future shows because its the in-ring action that seperates TNA from the pack, however the storylines are headed in a good direction.

[jwt13]

there will be five matches on Impact tonight

Robbie E V. Amazing Red
Mr. Anderson V. Kaz in a ultimate X match
Pope V. Aj
Mickie James V. Saritia
Beer Money V. Sabu and I think Raven

[Johnny Fenoli]

TONIGHT: Eric Bischoff hosts a special ReACTION on SpikeTV (right after iMPACT). Bischoff will show the world how Immortal put their plan into action months ago, and how they were able to succeed in their takeover, with exclusive footage, interviews and more!

[UkWrestleFan]

TONIGHT: Eric Bischoff hosts a special ReACTION on SpikeTV (right after iMPACT). Bischoff will show the world how Immortal put their plan into action months ago, and how they were able to succeed in their takeover, with exclusive footage, interviews and more!

Looks like somebody read liontamer's post.

[PeterHilton]

TONIGHT: Eric Bischoff hosts a special ReACTION on SpikeTV (right after iMPACT). Bischoff will show the world how Immortal put their plan into action months ago, and how they were able to succeed in their takeover, with exclusive footage, interviews and more!

Good and bad. Love the fact they're doing this..it'd be more effective if they just did a promo on the show with video clips to recap. But still...a good step in terms of storytelling

[juggaloninjalee]

TONIGHT: Eric Bischoff hosts a special ReACTION on SpikeTV (right after iMPACT). Bischoff will show the world how Immortal put their plan into action months ago, and how they were able to succeed in their takeover, with exclusive footage, interviews and more!

This is the perfect way to use Reaction! Things like this should be good.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Looks like somebody read liontamer's post.

I actually sent Dixie and Bischoff a tweet with a link to his post.... not saying that they actually got it, or even that is the reason they are doing this... but... in my lil mind, it is... GDS FTW!

[Hyde Hill]

Not to take anything away from LT's excellent explanation but wasn't it PH that pointed out that it didn't matter unless TNA actually explained it on air? Excellent use of reaction I agree but won't be watching. Once the relevant guys get more time/attention and the nostalgia guys less I may come back. If Hogan and EB and Flair and Jarrett and EV2 and Foley actually fade to the background of this story I would return.

[mtimmins]

Is it just me, or does Jeff Hardy actually make a decent heel? :confused:

[The Stallion]

Not to take anything away from LT's excellent explanation but wasn't it PH that pointed out that it didn't matter unless TNA actually explained it on air? Excellent use of reaction I agree but won't be watching. Once the relevant guys get more time/attention and the nostalgia guys less I may come back. If Hogan and EB and Flair and Jarrett and EV2 and Foley actually fade to the background of this story I would return.

I would not leave just yet brother. Give it a few weeks to see if it develops and if it sucks, then leave. The angle just started, give them a little bit to win you back.

[Stennick]

I can say without doubt that I have no desired to a crippled Hulk Hogan, Eazy E, and Jeff Jarrett in any main event super heel group so that alone is more than enough reason for me to just chill.

In fact I haven't even looked at this months spoilers. Everyone I care about is doing nothing right now, Lethal, AJ, Wolfe, Kaz, Morgan, even Pope is in a crap five on one handicap match. Even Fortune which I liked are now just nWo B Team so I did give them a huge chance. I sat down and watched Bound for Glory for three hours. Finally when they got to the reason for the season it was the ONLY thing I didn't want to see. 60 year old, crippled Hulk Hogan turning heel with Jeff Jarrett and Bischoff. Oh yeah throw in Hardy who everyone thinks is playing a dark character just because "he's the anti christ of pro wrestling". He's not literally saying he's the devil he's just saying he's now the most hated guy. Anyway I digress TNA had a huge chance at their biggest pay per view of the year and blew it.

I'll tune in when Hogan's back finally causes him to leave and Bischoff is fired.

[Bigpapa42]

I would not leave just yet brother. Give it a few weeks to see if it develops and if it sucks, then leave. The angle just started, give them a little bit to win you back.

The problem is that some of us have been really frustrated with TNA for awhile and have already been giving them "one last chance" for awhile. You reach a point where enough is enough and the frustration just isn't worth the "good" you get out of it.

Like Stennick and Hyde, I am done watching. I will check out results occassionally and will watch a match after the fact if I hear good things. But I have no desire to watch WCW circa 1996 being recreated with many of the same people in 2010. Even if they take it in another direction, its still repetition. More proof that TNA are not even trying to be original and that those in charge "don't get it".

[Stennick]

I have been trying to give them a chance since June when EV2 showed up. There isn't a television show on this planet that can feed me junk for over four months and still expect me to tune in.

I don't watch RAW for this exact reason. I will say this though atleast RAW is doing new things. Miz, Sheamus, Nexus (the best rendition of the nWo since the first year it was created).

TNA has been in the toilet since almost right after Lockdown. They built up so many new stars and I've seen each one of them take a back seat to something old and tired. I have given up on TNA countless times but after every "regime" change I head right back.

This time I'm taking a long break from this thing. I have found solitude in the Youtbue rewatching last decades shows. Atleast when I watch something being done back then it was original and not a tired unimaginative retread like TNA 2010.

[Tripps04]

Every time I hear the Pope talk I always hear Bernie Mac's voice, it's weird to me.

[The Stallion]

Man it's so disheartening to hear this. Everyone here is saying exactly what I feel, but I guess out of loyalty I am staying. However I dont know how long I will be able to keep watching. I do agree that all the young stars that had a big chance and were built up real well (Wolfe and Morgan anyone), lost any sense of momentum and just fell to the back burner. I just feel that if I turn off my TV and stop watching TNA, what else will I watch that will satisfy that wrestling itch. I guess there always old ROH, SHIMMER and PWG DVD's I can buy. I just want TNA to succeed so badly and not because I hate WWE, I have not watched WWE in so long that I dont know if I hate it, but because they have so many guys I like. I just would really like to see someone fresh in a main even role. Not that Anderson, Hardy and Angle are bad, because they are far from it, but it would be awesome to see Joe, Pope, Wolfe, Lethal and Morgan mix it up with those guys as well. One thing that TNA lacks in building up the young guys is the exposure. You have to book them on the popular morning and night shows. You have to get them out there in the public's faces and shove them down there throats. Thats how everybody knows who Austin, Rock, Cena, Sting, Hogan and Jarrett are. They've been in the public eye. Did you ever seen Joe on Good Morning America when he was TNA champion? No or course not. However I am going off on a tangent and off topic. I just want TNA to do well. Man what to do what to do?

[TracyBrooksFan]

oh well i will be watching TNA still like i do WWE.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Every time I hear the Pope talk I always hear Bernie Mac's voice, it's weird to me.

LOL... it's like he stole his cadence and everything from him, lol

[Johnny Fenoli]

there's wrestling on my wrestling tonight.

[Bigpapa42]

Man it's so disheartening to hear this. Everyone here is saying exactly what I feel, but I guess out of loyalty I am staying. However I dont know how long I will be able to keep watching. I do agree that all the young stars that had a big chance and were built up real well (Wolfe and Morgan anyone), lost any sense of momentum and just fell to the back burner. I just feel that if I turn off my TV and stop watching TNA, what else will I watch that will satisfy that wrestling itch. I guess there always old ROH, SHIMMER and PWG DVD's I can buy. I just want TNA to succeed so badly and not because I hate WWE, I have not watched WWE in so long that I dont know if I hate it, but because they have so many guys I like. I just would really like to see someone fresh in a main even role. Not that Anderson, Hardy and Angle are bad, because they are far from it, but it would be awesome to see Joe, Pope, Wolfe, Lethal and Morgan mix it up with those guys as well. One thing that TNA lacks in building up the young guys is the exposure. You have to book them on the popular morning and night shows. You have to get them out there in the public's faces and shove them down there throats. Thats how everybody knows who Austin, Rock, Cena, Sting, Hogan and Jarrett are. They've been in the public eye. Did you ever seen Joe on Good Morning America when he was TNA champion? No or course not. However I am going off on a tangent and off topic. I just want TNA to do well. Man what to do what to do?

I started to get pretty frustrated with TNA during the Main Event Mafia stuff - though I honestly didn't start watching much before that - and got really concerned when the Hogan era started with them redoing the Montreal Screwjob for no discernible reason at all. So for a good nine and a half months, I've been waiting for them to convince me that my concerns are wrong. And I've finally given up.

In addition to the WWE stuff I can watch every week, I get ROH on HDNet, some old ROH stuff and not-so-current CMLL every Saturday, plus tons of old stuff on WWE On Demand. I don't lack for wrestling to watch, and maybe that played into my decision even if wasn't conscious.

there's wrestling on my wrestling tonight.

The fact that this comment carries a lot of truth is one of many reasons I just won't bother anymore.

[alden]

line of the night goes to taz. Seeds and Paranoia are right up rvd's street. laughted when i head that one.

[juggaloninjalee]

What did everyone think about Reaction? I liked how it was done but didn't like Beer Money saying they knew about Fortune being formed the night Ric Flair came to TNA. Most of Beer Moneys interview bothered me actually as I felt it didn't make sense.

[pate]

I wanted more detail on Reaction. But at least they acknowledged events from the past instead of sweeping them under the rug.

[LoganRodzen]

I liked Impact last week. I'm watching last nights episode right now. Just saw the Kendrick and Foley segment at his book signing. I couldn't stop laughing. I think Kendrick is so freakin' awesome. Really funny little video.

[alden]

I really think jeff hardy could work as a heel. I almost get a jimmy jacobs emo vibe from him and that would be so awesome. The fans made him turn to the things he turned to because he had to keep up. He lost his house and his dog and still had to performe. It could work so well. I know they are going for dark and it might be working to be honest.

[juggaloninjalee]

I really think jeff hardy could work as a heel. I almost get a jimmy jacobs emo vibe from him and that would be so awesome. The fans made him turn to the things he turned to because he had to keep up. He lost his house and his dog and still had to performe. It could work so well. I know they are going for dark and it might be working to be honest.

I have always hated the Hardy Boys. Never once have I liked them but Jeff Hardy as a heel right now has made me really enjoy seeing him on television. No longer do I just want to see the guy jump 40 feet and miss a guy on a table. Now I actually don't mind seeing the belt over his shoulder. Loving it so far.

[Johnny Fenoli]

So, who's writting Jeff's pre taped promos for him? I'm guessing Raven would be the logical one.

Anyway, I really like the dark Jeff Hardy too...

Does Matt come in along with Helms and Moore... and try to hold a babyface intervention?

[LoganRodzen]

So, who's writting Jeff's pre taped promos for him? I'm guessing Raven would be the logical one.

Anyway, I really like the dark Jeff Hardy too...

Does Matt come in along with Helms and Moore... and try to hold a babyface intervention?

He's definitely reminding me of Raven as of finishing last nights episode. I love the dark (cult) direction TNA is going.

[juggaloninjalee]

He's definitely reminding me of Raven as of finishing last nights episode. I love the dark (cult) direction TNA is going.

It feels fresh to me because they are using people I wouldn't expect in these roles.

Fourtune is not like the old 4 Horseman at all. It is just a group of guys who are young and taking after their mentor.

Jeff Hardy hasn't worked this type of gimmick before in WWE or TNA.

When people compare Immortal to nWo I don't see it to be honest. nWo was something built up slowly actually and originally was very small but had the top stars.

[Johnny Fenoli]

It feels fresh to me because they are using people I wouldn't expect in these roles.

Fourtune is not like the old 4 Horseman at all. It is just a group of guys who are young and taking after their mentor.

Jeff Hardy hasn't worked this type of gimmick before in WWE or TNA.

When people compare Immortal to nWo I don't see it to be honest. nWo was something built up slowly actually and originally was very small but had the top stars.


If you switch Hogan and Bischoff for Paul Heyman and Jim Cornette... then no one would say it's the nWo....

[PeterHilton]

It feels fresh to me because they are using people I wouldn't expect in these roles.

Fourtune is not like the old 4 Horseman at all. It is just a group of guys who are young and taking after their mentor.

Jeff Hardy hasn't worked this type of gimmick before in WWE or TNA.

When people compare Immortal to nWo I don't see it to be honest. nWo was something built up slowly actually and originally was very small but had the top stars.

C'mon...this is just dumb..

Fourtune: A group of elitist, snob, arrogant heels wearing suits, throwing up the "four fingers" sign..and led by Ric Flair.

Immortals: Hogan and Bischoff leading a group of heels with an unfair advantage due to Eric's position of power. Most of their matches end in gand attacks. They film their vignettes in black & white. Their music is similar. And Hogan has made real life comments in the past few months that he wanted to re-create the nWo.

I mean..if you enjoy the shows and you like the stories, fine. But to say you "don't see" the comparison is just ridiculous. The comparisons are there because TNA put them there; they created the groups intentionally to remind people of past storylines just like they did with The Band, their screw-job, etc..

It's ok to defend and like TNA. But let's not get crazy.

[maskedpropaganda]

I have always hated the Hardy Boys. Never once have I liked them but Jeff Hardy as a heel right now has made me really enjoy seeing him on television. No longer do I just want to see the guy jump 40 feet and miss a guy on a table. Now I actually don't mind seeing the belt over his shoulder. Loving it so far.


This.

[Stennick]

C'mon...this is just dumb..

Fourtune: A group of elitist, snob, arrogant heels wearing suits, throwing up the "four fingers" sign..and led by Ric Flair.

Immortals: Hogan and Bischoff leading a group of heels with an unfair advantage due to Eric's position of power. Most of their matches end in gand attacks. They film their vignettes in black & white. Their music is similar. And Hogan has made real life comments in the past few months that he wanted to re-create the nWo.

I mean..if you enjoy the shows and you like the stories, fine. But to say you "don't see" the comparison is just ridiculous. The comparisons are there because TNA put them there; they created the groups intentionally to remind people of past storylines just like they did with The Band, their screw-job, etc..

It's ok to defend and like TNA. But let's not get crazy.

He's calling himself Hollywood Hogan, they had Hogan turn on the beloved Babyfaces in Daytona Beach in the SAME building Hogan turned heel in years earlier. Their trying to take over control of TNA, come on guys. If you like it you like it but this is completely and utterly nothing more than an nWo rehash. Ed Leslie called it exactly that just days before "They" was announced.

Also Fortune as Peter said they wear suits, they throw up a four finger hand signal, their led by Ric Flair.

This is exactly the Four Horseman and then nWo. If you like it thats fine but lets not pretend like these stables are completely new and never been seen before.

[Bigpapa42]

With Immortal and Fortune, TNA are doing everything possible to make the links obvious. It their actual intent was to make things "fresh" and this was the result, they are far more screwed up than I thought...

There's nothing wrong with enjoying what they are doing. But trying to downplay the obvious connection is wishful thinking at best. They cannot recreate the NWO or Four Horsemen exactly, for various reason. But there isn't that much they could do to make them more similar, given the talent they have available...

[alden]

diden't flair flat out say this is the horseman but he just could not call it that because wwe owned the copyright's to the four horsemen?

[Stennick]

pretty much yes. He even compared each guy in Fortune to a Horseman member and then told them how they weren't as good as those guys ha ha. Just what you want from your elite stable (at the time) you guys remind me of these guys but not near as good ha ha.

[Bigpapa42]

diden't flair flat out say this is the horseman but he just could not call it that because wwe owned the copyright's to the four horsemen?

Yeah, pretty much. On the formative promo - after they started flashing the hand signal prior - he talked about how they would embody the spirit of the Horsemen but they couldn't use the name. A couple weeks after, he cut a long promo where he compared each of them to a member of the original Horsemen... and not that favorably.

Edit - Stennik beat me. And like I mentione before, if TNA clearly did everything possible to play up the comparisons.

[-laz-]

i used to watch TNA but after the crap they have been spewing out of hogans anus for the last month im done

[PeterHilton]

So we're all in agreement, then? This..


Fourtune is not like the old 4 Horseman at all. It is just a group of guys who are young and taking after their mentor.

When people compare Immortal to nWo I don't see it to be honest. nWo was something built up slowly actually and originally was very small but had the top stars.

..didn't make a whole lotta sense? :)

[Stennick]

Yeah again if people like it thats fine. I've expressed my dislike of them. Usually even when I'm not watching it I'll read the spoilers but for me even thats a waste of time.

However if I said a group of heel wrestlers that came together after Hogan turned heel in Daytona Beach on one of the biggest pay per views of the year also led by Eric Bischoff as they try to take over the professional wrestling company...by using gang attacks to finish matches, using black and white vignettes and coming out to a tune that sounds like "Rockhouse". What would you say that is? Going off of that definition thats the nWo amiright?

I could do the same for Flair's group but he did it for me by SAYING they can't be the Horsemen because he can't legally call them that so their Fortune.

Like it if you want, don't like it if you want, but don't try and pretend like I haven't see this 14 years ago.

The biggest question is this how many years SINCE then has there not been some nWo version or knock off version. 96,97,98,99,2000 all had atleast some nWo version for a little while if not the whole year. They came back in 02, Then didn't TNA run the "kings of wrestling" with JJ, Hall and Nash in like 2005? Then we had the MEM, Then Nexus, then we had The Band and now we have Immortal. Best I can tell there is about a four or five year gap where we haven't had some brutal knock off of the nWo.

It just goes to show you how completely unoriginal pro wrestling can be. Business has been in decline for atleast half a decade now and still they can't come up with something original. I would say their going to keep doing the nWo until it doesn't make any money but it hasn't made any since what? 1998?

[PeterHilton]

It just goes to show you how completely unoriginal pro wrestling can be. Business has been in decline for atleast half a decade now and still they can't come up with something original. I would say their going to keep doing the nWo until it doesn't make any money but it hasn't made any since what? 1998?

What bothers me is that they're doing a rip-off of what is, to me at least, the LEAST interesting version of the nWo: when every heel in the WCW was a member and Eric was in a position of power and every single match ended in a run-in mess. That was the version that eventually turned people off because there was NEVER a pay-off where the heels got their comeuppance.

I mean...with all the "WWE names" that came in early on, you could have easily booked the Outsiders aspect of the storyline too and had guys like Anderson, Hardy, RVD as the invaders and then do a giant turn with AJ..but whatever.

Now..in story terms...the next few weeks is where we see the Immortals establish themselves as the THE force to be reckoned with. So they should go over as much as possible. But Eric's problem was that he NEVER pulled the trigger on letting the 'good guys' go over the nWo (and whether he did it for personal ego or because he thought the nWo was the moneymaker in WCW we'll never know) so that's what would worry me as a viewer.

That - 6 months from now - The Immortals are still running wild and everyone not in the group is made to look like a huge joke.

[SaySo]

I found this on the forum boards on WrestleZone about Desmond Wolfe.

===

Here's what he (apparently) told Alex Marvez in 2009 in a telephone interview:

"I'm not making fun of it, but I do forget a lot of times. I remember sometimes earlier in my career where I would get into a car at night and see bright lights in the sky. After one match with Aries, I had to take the next night off and for a good week or so I couldn’t walk without stumbling. ... The weird thing is you don't know how many you can take before you suffer serious, permanent damage. ...

It's something I need to worry about. Unfortunately in this business, there's only so much you can do."

If true, it seems like some sort of neurological disorder. Which can lead to the end of his wrestling career.

===

[juggaloninjalee]

Ok if Immortal is the = to the nWo

Hollywood Hogan = Jeff Hardy (Doesn't fit really)
Hall and Nash = Abyss and ???

Abyss was kinda ringing the bell around TNA like Hall was in WCW. Nobody backed him up though like Nash backed Hall up. Plus Abyss is nothing like any of those guys. The closest comparison would be to compare him to the Giant.

The 4 Horseman never would have joined the nWo as they were out to prove they were the best in WCW. Fortune joined Immortal to get in on the action basically. While some similiarities are there I still wouldn't call this an nWo rip off at all.

I see some things that are like the old WWF Corporation though too.

As for the "gang tactics"... it is a heel stable and almost every heel stable sinceearly 90s did this before the nWo was doing the run in finish by DQ's.

to be continued...

[Bigpapa42]

It sounds like you expect TNA to be recreating it exactly before you would consider it a redo. Its like saying that Hogan, Angle, AJ, and Hebner doing the screwjob angle in January wasn't a rip off of the Montreal incident because the roles and circumstances were slightly different.

The truth is that TNA cannot absolutely recreate the genesis of the NWO with for-like workers in each role. Its just not possible - partly because they don't have workers who could have the same impact in the roles given to Nash, Hall & Hogan. But if you don't think they are trying to recreate it, again, I have to think its wishful thinking. Short of having for-like workers in the same roles, how much more similar would you need it to be to the NWO?

Its not just the fact that Hogan and Bischoff are playing major roles in a heel stable that makes it similar to the NWO. Its... everything. Its a major heel stable comprised of a great amount of the top talent who are collectively trying to "take over" a promotion. Its "outsiders" taking control with the help of those already inside the promotion. Its one worker warning of their coming, leading to a swerve finish to a PPV that includes a notable worker turning to join the heel stable.

You might see a few elements of The Corproation in there... but the Corporation was a fundamentally different heel stable. The entire intent of the stable was for the legal owner of the promotion exert control over the roster, with his corrupt exercise of power being more a focus than gang mentality. Moreover, McMahon and his Corporation were never trying to be the "cool guys" the way the NWO were, and McMahon understood that the payoff is the bad guy getting what he has coming.

Put it this way... If someone was trying to book a modern NWO recreation in TEW and the major points of similarity they managed were the same as what TNA has managed, I would probably say they did a pretty good job in recreating it. You wouldn't?

[alden]

in the tna remake of the nwo i would look at it like this. Hogan = hardy. The mega face turn heel. abyss would be hall.......the role bringing news of the group. hogan and eric well they fill somewhat of the same role *well atleast eric* jerret was a member of the nwo at one point so there you go ;).

[stratusfaction]

nice to see Katie Lea on Impact! Not sure what to make of her character or what she wants with Angelina. Guess we will find out soon enough. She is going by Winter...interesting. any thoughts on where this is going?

[djthefunkchris]

nice to see Katie Lea on Impact! Not sure what to make of her character or what she wants with Angelina. Guess we will find out soon enough. She is going by Winter...interesting. any thoughts on where this is going?

She's totally uninteresting to me, or has always been in the past. Hopefully TNA can do something with her, but then again... I feel like they have too much going already.

I still say this is going to be a ratings increase, for a good while.... Not just a couple of weeks. I don't think it's going to do what they are hoping for, but I do think they could use the extra viewers right now, and as time goes on, try to turn this into something alot more interesting then the Hogan/Flair/Bischoff show.

[stratusfaction]

She's totally uninteresting to me, or has always been in the past. Hopefully TNA can do something with her, but then again... I feel like they have too much going already.

I still say this is going to be a ratings increase, for a good while.... Not just a couple of weeks. I don't think it's going to do what they are hoping for, but I do think they could use the extra viewers right now, and as time goes on, try to turn this into something alot more interesting then the Hogan/Flair/Bischoff show.

She had a rather boring character in WWE but she is pretty amazing in the ring. I'm hoping now with Mickie and Katie signing that the Knockouts division goes back to the Kong/Kim days. But knowing TNA they will probably run this storyline where Winter is an invisible friend for a couple of weeks and then totally just forget about it and then she will just be lost in the shuffle some where like Hamada, Taylor and Sarita usually is.

Speaking of lost in the shuffle....where the hell is Daffney? I haven't seen her for months. Is she still healing from that injury from Rosie Lottalove like 5 months ago?

[Hyde Hill]

I think I saw Daffney on Xplosion before I stopped watching. So she is around just way at the bottom of the KO rsoter.

[PeterHilton]

Ok if Immortal is the = to the nWo

Hollywood Hogan = Jeff Hardy (Doesn't fit really)
Hall and Nash = Abyss and ???

Abyss was kinda ringing the bell around TNA like Hall was in WCW. Nobody backed him up though like Nash backed Hall up. Plus Abyss is nothing like any of those guys. The closest comparison would be to compare him to the Giant.

The 4 Horseman never would have joined the nWo as they were out to prove they were the best in WCW. Fortune joined Immortal to get in on the action basically. While some similiarities are there I still wouldn't call this an nWo rip off at all.

I see some things that are like the old WWF Corporation though too.

As for the "gang tactics"... it is a heel stable and almost every heel stable sinceearly 90s did this before the nWo was doing the run in finish by DQ's.

to be continued...

This is a joke, right?

Even the people involved (Hogan and Flair) are admitting that the new groups are supposed to be similar. That's why Fourtune uses the hand signs. That's why The Immortals use the black & white vignettes. The fact that you don't see it is only because you don't want to see it.

You're wrong and you're just being argumentative to prove a point.

Which is too bad because it's a stupid point to make. Nothing you say is going to disprove the similarities. Again..if you like TNA and the current story, there's nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all. But denying that these two groups are Horsemen/nWo knock-offs when it's clear that they are SUPPOSED to be Horsemen/nWo just makes you look entirely unreasonable.

[20LEgend]

Where is Shawn Hernandez?

Is he not being used or is it something else?

[Slagaholic]

I think I saw Daffney on Xplosion before I stopped watching. So she is around just way at the bottom of the KO rsoter.
I read somewhere that she's working as a trainer.

[|Anderz|]

Where is Shawn Hernandez?

Is he not being used or is it something else?

hes still on loan to AAA as far as I know..

[20LEgend]

hes still on loan to AAA as far as I know..

Anyone got any ideas as to when he''l be back?(i'd imagine no one reakky knows)

[thommohawk]

I strongly disagree with the people saying TNA are copying the nWo and that Immortal is a nWo rip off, reason being is that the original nWo (circa 1997)itself was a copy job of an angle/stable that New Japan ran prior to WCW. However it was Bischoff/Hogan's brilliant idea to take something Vince had overlooked and run with it frankly because both parties were in different positions creatively with their respective companies. And the same rings true now with Jeff Hardy's heel turn. Whether you're coming from 1997 or jumping to 2010 it highlights the fact that pro wrestling is and has been in a state of flux creatively where true originality is difficult to come by, even ECW struggled in that aspect after 1998, except nowadays it's a lot more difficult to come up with original stuff because ask yourselves, what can one do that truly hasn't all been done before in some capacity or another ? And yet these angles come across as rehashes of a bygone era, some more so than others, yet while the blueprint is the same the content is different. I sometimes just think wrestling fans need to start getting realistic sometimes. That even in the 90s/early millennium originality was hard to come by and that's even more so now.

I truly believe that there's nothing new that can be done at this point, outside of turning key wrestlers and concocting new match types, and not all of them good, and creating a show with great writing and presentation I don't think there's anything more that can be done, but then that's what it always was during the best years. Nothing more.

In my opinion, the company that gets lots of momentum is the company that writes the best product in terms of presentation....for me most of the reason the original ECW worked so effectively (at least when it was in business) as an entertainment platform was because it was not only well written but it was presented smartly and intelligently. Like for example referencing Smarks and the IWC in mid promo and taking jabs at the competition. It set them apart and it was so different. That hasn't been done as effectively since. I know Hogan's tried it recently with TNA but frankly it works so much better when a Cyrus or Shane Douglas in their prime does it.

[Bigpapa42]

I strongly disagree with the people saying TNA are copying the nWo and that Immortal is a nWo rip off, reason being is that the original nWo (circa 1997)itself was a copy job of an angle/stable that New Japan ran prior to WCW. However it was Bischoff/Hogan's brilliant idea to take something Vince had overlooked and run with it frankly because both parties were in different positions creatively with their respective companies. And the same rings true now with Jeff Hardy's heel turn. Whether you're coming from 1997 or jumping to 2010 it highlights the fact that pro wrestling is and has been in a state of flux creatively where true originality is difficult to come by, even ECW struggled in that aspect after 1998, except nowadays it's a lot more difficult to come up with original stuff because ask yourselves, what can one do that truly hasn't all been done before in some capacity or another ? And yet these angles come across as rehashes of a bygone era, some more so than others, yet while the blueprint is the same the content is different. I sometimes just think wrestling fans need to start getting realistic sometimes. That even in the 90s/early millennium originality was hard to come by and that's even more so now.

I truly believe that there's nothing new that can be done at this point, outside of turning key wrestlers and concocting new match types, and not all of them good, and creating a show with great writing and presentation I don't think there's anything more that can be done, but then that's what it always was during the best years. Nothing more.

So your logic is that because the original NWO was not an original idea, its therefore impossible for someone to try to rip it off and recreate it? I don't see the logic there...

As for "no new ideas left", this has been discussed a few times of late in this thread. There is nothing wrong with reusing old ideas... if you are updating them and doing things to make them feel fresh. And that is where TNA fails, in my opinion. They not only fail to make things feel fresh for the most part, but go out of their way to keep the connection as strong as possible.

Evolution was not really an original idea when the WWE put the stable together. Although there were some obvious differences, it could have been seen as another Four Horsemen ripoff. Especially if they had started throwing out the hand signal and comparing themselves to the Horsemen off the start. Instead, the WWE was smart enough to emphasize what made the stable different and it became something that stood on its own. Same with the whole Nexus group - the basic ideas behind the group are nothing new. By choosing who they used and how it was presented, the WWE made it feel fresh. I'm not trying to claim that the WWE always gets things right in this sense, simply pointing out that it is entirely possible to reuse old ideas without making it blatantly clear and obvious that you are trying to ripoff the old idea.

[cappyboy]

I'm not trying to claim that the WWE always gets things right in this sense, simply pointing out that it is entirely possible to reuse old ideas without making it blatantly clear and obvious that you are trying to ripoff the old idea.

Indeed. There's an old line and I wish I could remember who said it. "Those who are most creative conceal their sources the best." That's TNA's problem when it comes to this topic. They aren't concealing their sources. They are broadcasting them for the world to see. When that happens, the old idea is always going to look better for the simple matter that it was. The old idea will have had its origins hidden and surprised people where the new one surprises nobody because they know where it came from.

[Hyde Hill]

Also there is no problem referencing the old stable in this case or saying you are carrying out it's legacy as long as you make CLEAR that you are a MODERN and FRESH incarnation of it.

Flair: "Fourtune is an Evolution of the Four Horseman and Fourtune is going to be better then both combined"

AJ: "And there is no doubt about it because we are so fourtunate in talent and skill and looks that we all are simply Phenominal"

ONE freaking promo and it's clear and done. Instead TNA doesn't even try.

[Candyman]

So your logic is that because the original NWO was not an original idea, its therefore impossible for someone to try to rip it off and recreate it? I don't see the logic there...

I'm glad you responded first, because you said it a lot nicer than I would have. That really makes no sense whatsoever. If I steal an idea from you, who cares where you got it? I still stole it from you. Sure, WCW stole the nWo idea from Japan. But TNA is doing it because WCW did it, not because they did it in Japan.

[Stennick]

I strongly disagree with the people saying TNA are copying the nWo and that Immortal is a nWo rip off, reason being is that the original nWo (circa 1997)itself was a copy job of an angle/stable that New Japan ran prior to WCW. However it was Bischoff/Hogan's brilliant idea to take something Vince had overlooked and run with it frankly because both parties were in different positions creatively with their respective companies. And the same rings true now with Jeff Hardy's heel turn. Whether you're coming from 1997 or jumping to 2010 it highlights the fact that pro wrestling is and has been in a state of flux creatively where true originality is difficult to come by, even ECW struggled in that aspect after 1998, except nowadays it's a lot more difficult to come up with original stuff because ask yourselves, what can one do that truly hasn't all been done before in some capacity or another ? And yet these angles come across as rehashes of a bygone era, some more so than others, yet while the blueprint is the same the content is different. I sometimes just think wrestling fans need to start getting realistic sometimes. That even in the 90s/early millennium originality was hard to come by and that's even more so now.

I truly believe that there's nothing new that can be done at this point, outside of turning key wrestlers and concocting new match types, and not all of them good, and creating a show with great writing and presentation I don't think there's anything more that can be done, but then that's what it always was during the best years. Nothing more.

In my opinion, the company that gets lots of momentum is the company that writes the best product in terms of presentation....for me most of the reason the original ECW worked so effectively (at least when it was in business) as an entertainment platform was because it was not only well written but it was presented smartly and intelligently. Like for example referencing Smarks and the IWC in mid promo and taking jabs at the competition. It set them apart and it was so different. That hasn't been done as effectively since. I know Hogan's tried it recently with TNA but frankly it works so much better when a Cyrus or Shane Douglas in their prime does it.

In this entire post you never once state now Immortal is different than the nWo. You don't even go the obvious (the roles don't fit) argument that has been weakly applied in the past.

You gave us four or five paragraphs there and all you said was I strongly disagree with Immortal being a ripoff. If you strongly disagree then state why you strongly disagree. My guess is that because they didn't do it exactly how WCW did it then its not a rip off.

I've laid it out several times. Hogan turns heel in Daytona, he's calling himself Hollywood Hogan, its a giant heel stable of guys that want to take over control of TNA via gang attacks and internal power with Eazy E. They film their vingettes in black and white and even their music is a direct knock off of "Rockhouse" the nWo music. Again if you LIKE Immortal thats one thing but please oh please don't try and justify them as not the nWo because they are exactly that. Even Ed Leslie who as you know is Hogan's BEST friend said days beforehand that Hogan wanted to recreate the nWo in TNA. Immortal is the nWo that statement is as close to fact as you'll come across in the fake world of pro wrestling.

That being said I will strongly disagree with you're "everything has been done before".

You really think people didn't believe this in 1930 before Nuclear Fission became possible? You really don't think people believed this before television, computers, planes, etc.?

Same thing holds true for pro wrestling. There has been plenty of new ideas tossed around in wrestling over the years. You say the nWo was a rip off of something in Japan but it wasn't even close. The nWo was mostly simulated by a certain German regime thats name is filtered here. With the propaganda, the evil dictator, the gang blitzkrieg attacks, the recognizable hand signal, the uniform colors, etc.

Again though it doesn't matter if its new as long as its fresh. The X Division despite their monkier was CLEARLY an evolution of the cruiserweight division but it was fresh, it was modern it was new for all intents and purposes.

You know whats not fresh? Four or five fifty year old men standing in a ring screaming non sense about a pro wrestling promotion none of them work for and they all had a hand in killing over a decade ago. Thats not fresh. You know what else isn't fresh? Doing the SAME thing with ECW an even less important promotion with even less name value stars doing the opposite and professing to beat each other up to make sure ECW lives on.

You know whats fresh? Displaying women like Awesome Kong, Gail Kim, Alissa Flash, Sarita, even ODB and presenting them as equals to the men. Giving them nearly as much hype and air time as the men. Bragging and really putting over just how talented they are and really allowing them to display their atheltic ablities.

You know whats not fresh? Firing all of these women when they got upset with their low pay grade in comparison to the types of ratings they were drawing. You know whats not fresh? Replacing those young, exciting, athletic, original looking women with bleached blonde, fake implanted, spray on tan, uncoordinated bimbos....and then continuing to try and brag about your elite women's division while paying your announcer ten times the amount in a year that you're paying nearly the entire women's division.

So please don't talk about how things can't be done and how we should just accept that we're forced to watch the same things over and over again for the rest of our pro wrestling watching days. Frankly speaking its people like you that allow TNA to get away with this junk. Its that exact mentality. "Well what can they do that hasn't been done, this is good enough for me". Instead of demanding that they do better and talking via your television remote and wallet you become their enabler. You know how I told the WWE I wasn't happy with their shows? I stopped watching them, stopped buying pay per views and stopped wasting my time with their products. Thats exactly how I have let TNA know that I'm not happy with their product.

People want to "give them the benefit of the doubt" with the Immortal story but the truth is their out of chances. I gave them the benefit of the doubt when I bought two tickets to Lockdown, bought a t shirt. I gave them the benefit of the doubt by watching their television show for months at a time. They responded to my patience by bringing back ECW, and WCW and now the nWo and the Four Horsemen. TNA doesn't get the benefit of anything from me anymore.

[djthefunkchris]

At first I thought you said something different (Stennick). However, I strongly agree after re-reading a few times. Doesn't mean it won't work, and doesn't stop other people from liking it, but the opinion in and of itself I find myself strongly agreeing with.

That being said, If we want to be totally honest about things, Wrestling hasn't really changed that much, outside of the "indy" scene itself, and gymnastics replacing psychology.

When the Territories were active, it's important to point out that these Indie's are nothing in comparison. The Territories were on TV, they had thousands at big events, and the wrestler's were paid alot better (comparitively). TNA fits "Territory" probably better then any other promotion out there, with maybe the exception of ROH (at least that I know of).

I think the main thing that's always bugged everyone about TNA is the amount of talent... as I've said from the first time I seen it. TO ME, they have two or three times the amount of talent as probably any other promotion in the world, for sure more then WWE. This is saying something... You have iconic figures on there, legends, and up-and-comer's and people that should have already been just as well known as your Randy Orton's, Miz's, and MVP's...

They dillute everything by doing way too much, and if Hogan, Bischoff, Flair, etc.. weren't already so well known, this stuff would probably have gone down pretty fast...

But... People like the old ECW crew, and probably like seeing them again. People remember the old NWO/WCW and probably like seeing them again. This is "OK", but they will probably fail misserably when it comes time for them to leave, in getting anyone else on the roster that wasn't already well known, to have any more popularity then they do right now. You have your Jeff Hardy's, RVD's, Angle's, etc.. but even Angle mentioned how upset he was after bassically working and working a little thing with AJ, only to have AJ demolished at some other point, making his (Kurt's) loss, unimportant in the long run.

I get frustrated as much as anyone when watching this, but I can't help but to hold on to a little hope in that they aren't just trying to make one more long run with fat paychecks, before fading away into the hall of fame, never to be seen in the ring again.

[Hyde Hill]

Look I and I think others don't mind the "nostalgia" per se but it is the total overkill of the amount of attention they get and all the attempts to keep them relevant at the expense of those guys who should be kept relevant and should get the attention etc. As long as TNA does not get more brand awareness AJ etc won't be as big a household name as Orton etc but they can be the Orton's for TNA.

Case in point EV2 beating Fourtune at BFG.

[djthefunkchris]

Look I and I think others don't mind the "nostalgia" per se but it is the total overkill of the amount of attention they get and all the attempts to keep them relevant at the expense of those guys who should be kept relevant and should get the attention etc. As long as TNA does not get more brand awareness AJ etc won't be as big a household name as Orton etc but they can be the Orton's for TNA.

Case in point EV2 beating Fourtune at BFG.

Your not seeing the bigger picture I don't think.... If they didn't get more awareness when AJ was the relevant one, or Joe, or whomever, that's not going to happen right now. However, if Bischoff/Hogan/Flair and other's can get some more brand awareness, then perhaps it might work out, if they follow through "later"... meaning pass the torch.

The main problem I feel isn't that these guys have made themselves relevant again. The main problem is no one believes they will use this relevance to "rub" the one's that need it.

EDIT: and reading that, I didn't get my point accross. Let me add a bit more.


What I'm trying to say is that Bischoff/Hogan/Flair weren't relevant to start with, that had to build up into something that had viewer's interested... Weather or not "I" would have gone this route or not, I don't know... But they did. However, if they can escalate the "brand awareness" to a height it hasn't seen without them, then at that point (The height of where they can get it), they should start to fued or "rub" guys like AJ. I feel that AJ has been getting it from Flair, but it's just not took totally over yet. Flair needs to be "behind" AJ at some point, meaning that he can manage him, talk trash for him, but run and hide behind him when someone has had enough. Same with Hogan or any of the other guys that aren't really going to get any more popular then they already have in the past. This is including people like Nash, Sting, Jarret, EV2 crew, and of course people like Foley. Angle is still "Relevant" and should be treated so right now. Fact is, they should hype Angle vs. Hogan's best, to try and create MORE controversy, more viewer's etc. I would probably pick Hardy vs. Angle, not Hardy vs. RVD, but that's just me. RVD could be used against AJ this way. Angle > Hardy > RVD > AJ in terms of popularity/overness, and they should realise that, and work it into something huge utilizing the name value's of Flair/Hogan, etc... because in reality Hogan > Flair > Bishoff > Angle > Hardy, etc. Utilize them heavily till TNA peaks, then start building the younger more able guys up behind that, and bring them to heights they couldn't have possibly reached without these exact people behind/against them. It's always up to the individual if they can actually pick up when they are brought up, and go even farther, but it's definately worth a try.

As I said, the biggest problem is no one believes they will actually do the "Right" thing here. Everyone figures this is WCW endgame, and I don't really blame them.

[Hyde Hill]

Thing is you can use the nostalgia some of the time to create awareness or to sell to partners see we have these names but you do not have them dominate the show. Plus there are many more and better ways to create said awareness. It's useless to create awareness and then have people turn off because they don't like what they are seeing. So I am not saying the nostalgia guys don't have a use but that they are being used the wrong way.

Better to grow organically and spotlight those that will keep people interested then all this contrived and nostalgia BS. AJ might not get TNA short term awareness but can create long term and sustainable awareness.

I just don't think going this nostalgia heavy will ever get TNA the awareness they crave which will then lead to the point that TNA will make the switch to the truly relevant talent.

Right now they are keeping the Nostalgia relevant at the EXPENSE of the other talent and that is just not right.

[LordJaguar]

I believe the TRUE problem lies with US fans and not the TNA product. Let's face facts. As the years went on people became more and more aware of just what really went on behind the scenes. We "found" out that it's all scripted. Now TNA is putting on a great product...just not for US. Their product imho would fly so much better twenty to thirty years ago. When a guy like AJ Styles who is very talented is being "held" back you are supposed to get mad and watch so when he does win your super excited. Now a days we are not pissed that AJ "lost" but that he is "being held down."

We need to be less smarky and just treat it like a TV show. No one threatens to stop watching Deal or No deal if the contestants are being held back. No one stops tuning into Miss America pagents because Miss Africa never wins. Enjoy it for what it is and forget that backstage crap!

[PeterHilton]

I believe the TRUE problem lies with US fans and not the TNA product. Let's face facts. As the years went on people became more and more aware of just what really went on behind the scenes. We "found" out that it's all scripted. Now TNA is putting on a great product...just not for US. Their product imho would fly so much better twenty to thirty years ago. When a guy like AJ Styles who is very talented is being "held" back you are supposed to get mad and watch so when he does win your super excited. Now a days we are not pissed that AJ "lost" but that he is "being held down."

We need to be less smarky and just treat it like a TV show. No one threatens to stop watching Deal or No deal if the contestants are being held back. No one stops tuning into Miss America pagents because Miss Africa never wins. Enjoy it for what it is and forget that backstage crap!

No offense, but based on the people in this thread who watch and react to the shows, and the extensive time that is spent by people who break down storlyines...this is a pretty stupid post.

It just has nothing...literally nothing...that people have been complaining about in this thread..

[LordJaguar]

That is my point...TOO MUCH TIME is being put into this. No one stops watching a TV show because their favorite actor is being underutilized in his role but if AJ or someone is used wrong people go nuts. I have read many complaints on the current angle and it seems people don't like it because of who is being used and not what is going on. If Shane McMahon was in the Bischoff role people here would cream themselves over the angle.

[PeterHilton]

That is my point...TOO MUCH TIME is being put into this. No one stops watching a TV show because their favorite actor is being underutilized in his role but if AJ or someone is used wrong people go nuts. I have read many complaints on the current angle and it seems people don't like it because of who is being used and not what is going on. If Shane McMahon was in the Bischoff role people here would cream themselves over the angle.

You seriously don't think people stop watching shows because their favorite actor isn't as big a part of it? So ER didn't lose viewers after George Clooney left? CSI didn't lose viewers after their stars left? NYPD Blue? Law & Order? You don't think The Office is sweating the fact that Steve Carrell is leaving?

The actors who plays a role and how they fit is easily one of the most important parts of how a TV show fares. If I don't LIKE the person in that role, why am I watching in the first place?

Your point is offbase. Sorry.

[LordJaguar]

You seriously don't think people stop watching shows because their favorite actor isn't as big a part of it? So ER didn't lose viewers after George Clooney left? CSI didn't lose viewers after their stars left? NYPD Blue? Law & Order? You don't think The Office is sweating the fact that Steve Carrell is leaving?

The actors who plays a role and how they fit is easily one of the most important parts of how a TV show fares. If I don't LIKE the person in that role, why am I watching in the first place?

Your point is offbase. Sorry.

Did I say after they left? If there was an episode of E.R. where Clooney wasn't on screen for 20 mins would the show be acused of bad writing? Bad storylines? Fans outraged? In wrestling when a good wrestler isn't given a good push thats what people say...

[PeterHilton]

You're making vast generalizations about everyone on this board based on most net fans. Read through this discussion and tell me where people are freaking out for some hotshot angle or one isolated incident of bad booking. This is months (in some cases years ) of examples of people putting up with bad storytelling before they change their mind.

Any person who sits there and watches a show even if the storytelling has sucked for MONTHS then they're an idiot. It's not your obligation to watch any show if it's bad for an extended period.

[Self]

The whole "Boo hoo AJ isn't getting pushed" type complaining does exist with other TV shows, but it doesn't seem as strong as in wrestling. Maybe because wrestling is so character based. Maybe I'm just too disconnected from other internet fandoms to notice complaints that Chevy Chase isn't being used enough on Community.

Characters are a massive part of my watching any TV show, not just wrestling. Every show I watch, I watch because I relate to or enjoy one or more characters. When the show stops presenting those characters in a way I enjoy, I stop watching. Battlestar Galactica is an example. At the beginning, I was able to lock onto a few characters I could relate to. However, after a few seasons they had pretty much destroyed everything I liked about all of my favourites and the show became a chore to watch. I came really close to chucking the DVD's in the bin... but seeing as I foolishly bought the entire series (a 'financial commitment' as my pops would say) I wanted to get my money's worth. I regret it.

TNA is similar. Cool characters interested me, but over time they've presented them in unappealing or insubstantial ways. It doesn't give me characters I enjoy, so I don't watch. Same with WWE. Same with Breaking Bad. Time was I would have pitched a fit internet-style, and I'm sure there are folks who still do so for both.

[Hyde Hill]

Let's put it this way. TNA is not entertaining me enough because the product they are presenting is not interesting to me. That is because TNA chooses to highlight those people that do not appeal to me aside from a nostalgia purpose and because their story-lines are atrocious and focus on those same people.

So despite TNA having many appealing things to me I chose to stop watching because the bad started to out way the good. This has happened with many shows before and will continue to do so.

I get the gripe LordJaguar is presenting but this is not the case here. Like PeterHilton explained.

I and many on here are total product people as far as entertainment goes and we recognise that what draws, draws even if we do not like it. So we look at it from a total business standpoint. And we think that TNA could or should do different things in order for it to grow and not just please our on personal tastes.

Main problem is the lack of data that is available to back up those claims so most of it comes from an historical perspective or a gut feeling so to speak.

Now as to why this is more prevalent in wrestling then entertainment? Well there are many reasons but the main one is is because wrestling is both a sport and entertainment. And just look at any sports forum and there are loads and loads of opinions on who to put in what role and who to put in the starting line up and who to sign or trade for etc.
There the goal is to win as many competitions (and thus make the most money). In wrestling the goal is to bring in the maximum amount of money and in TNA's case to create long term growth.

I personally mentioned AJ because he is symptomatic of TNA's current direction/total product. So eventhough AJ really entertains me I am not watching. I also think based on my personal preference, gut feeling and available empirical and historical data that it would be good for TNA long term to give him a more prominent role.

The same can be said for instance about Jay Lethal even-though I personally do not care for him as much I can see that he connects with the fans when displayed in the right way.

[jwt13]

I dont understand how people say its focused on the older people in this one ok Hogan, Bisch, and Flair are mangeing the group but are not fighting or getting too much screen time Fortune is getting all the screen time along with hardy Abyss Samoa Joe. I get the NWO rip off but come on this was well built up and so far has been a very good storyline. I forgot about Double J I agree he should not be wrestling but other that I am loving TNA ATM

[Hyde Hill]

Meh this episode was more Fourtune and the relevant guys as I read it. If it remains like that over a longer period I may come back. But TNA has definitely lost my benefit of the doubt, and I have been extremely tolerant, and I am not much interested in this storyline atm.

[Astil]

I dont understand how people say its focused on the older people in this one ok Hogan, Bisch, and Flair are mangeing the group but are not fighting or getting too much screen time Fortune is getting all the screen time along with hardy Abyss Samoa Joe. I get the NWO rip off but come on this was well built up and so far has been a very good storyline. I forgot about Double J I agree he should not be wrestling but other that I am loving TNA ATM

Hulk Hogan
Eric Bishoff
Jeff Jarrett
Kevin Nash
Sting
Ric Flair
Tommy Dreamer
Sabu
Raven

have all been pushed hard over the last month or three. I am officially TNA'd out. I'll come back when they aren't misusing my favorite wrestler.

[20LEgend]

have all been pushed hard over the last month or three. I am officially TNA'd out. I'll come back when they aren't misusing my favorite wrestler.

Who's what? Joe?

[jwt13]

Hulk Hogan
Eric Bishoff
Jeff Jarrett
Kevin Nash
Sting
Ric Flair
Tommy Dreamer
Sabu
Raven

have all been pushed hard over the last month or three. I am officially TNA'd out. I'll come back when they aren't misusing my favorite wrestler.

Yes but along with that goes

Pope
Joe
Hardy (still young)
Styles
Kaz
Morgan
The Gunz
Anderson

If im not mistaking your favorite wrestler is Hardy right? If so his new heel gimmick is awesome.

[shawn michaels 82]

That is my point...TOO MUCH TIME is being put into this. No one stops watching a TV show because their favorite actor is being underutilized in his role but if AJ or someone is used wrong people go nuts. I have read many complaints on the current angle and it seems people don't like it because of who is being used and not what is going on. If Shane McMahon was in the Bischoff role people here would cream themselves over the angle.

Wrong...People stop watching or complaint a lot. In fact, some shows get storyline changes because of their audience demands. It has happened several times, it will continue happening. I, as a writer, would never change a storyline because of public demand, but that's a different story. But it happens and it happens a lot. When Paget Brewster's role on Criminal Minds was cut back and they planned using her in a different way all hell broke down on the internet. So yeah, people whine in other tv shows.

[Slagaholic]

HUGE Spoiler for Thursday: Matt Morgan Turns Face!! Yaaayyyy!!!!

[juggaloninjalee]

Can't wait for Impact on Thursday. Should be interesting to see all that is happening.

[spikedave]

Hi Folks
My latest TNA Blog is up please spread the word and have a read.

http://t.co/8ptYtFn

Thank You:D

[TheEdgeOfReason]

HUGE Spoiler for Thursday:

Will it change the face of TNA forever? :D

[TDubRaiders]

Will it change the face of TNA forever? :D

If Dixie doesn't tweet it I don't believe so..:D

[Hyde Hill]

Will it change the face of TNA forever? :D

Lol this running joke is so baseless. Dixie tweeted big change once pre slammiversary, and that hasn't happened except if it was the "They" storyline, and now it's like TNA said it all of the time without it happening.

All the previous changes where changes of varying degree. Initial Bisch and Hogan changes for instance the 6 sides gone. Moving to Monday. Moving back to Thursday.

[Stennick]

She tweeted about it several times both her and JJ from pre Slamiversery all the way till right before BFG.

In fact didn't she tweet that the big change was happening AT Bound for Glory? I could google it but I'm lazy. If the big change was Immortal how dumb was that for her to tweet that ahead of time? Also its hardly changed anything for any length of time.