The Official TNA Discussion Thread

[jwt13]

All thommohawk's posts are borderline flame bait and I dont et why people even bother to stroke his ego with a replay.:confused:

[djthefunkchris]

I'm sorry but I disagree completely with a lot of this, I haven't seen anyone complain about Orton's gimmick and the whole tit for tat thing *is* relevant because it's the truth - people *do* have such agendas, I'm not saying crap isn't crap - but I just find it funny that TNA get negative comments for most things they do and when WWE does the same thing nobody seems to say a word....now either one of us is covering tracks or simply put we read 2 very different internets lol.

As for the Foley/Anderson time difference thing, I don't buy that and I'll tell you why....yes it *was* a different and more risque time period, but you aren't seriously suggesting that people legitimately know more about concussed wrestlers and serious injury now than back then and that's the reason for the outburst against TNA rather than it being simple fanboy ammo ? And if so, where were you in 1997-1999 ? It doesn't matter if it was a decade ago as time doesn't change the facts. It was still the same thing. WCW have been guilty of it also for what it's worth.

The Hardy/Raven thing is another thing I don't understand, where do people get that comparison from ? I don't see how the two mannerisms or gimmicks are even remotely similar - Hardy's gimmick or current style has about as much in common with Taker as he does with Raven. Which is nothing. Just like Orton has nothing in common with the Austin gimmick.

If Hogan and Bischoff come to the WWE and did the stuff they did with TNA at this time, people would have been all over the WWE alot worse. Fact is that WWE is expected to do better then TNA, and the fact is that TNA at times does better then the WWE (something that is NOT expected). Problem with folks thinking in the way you do, is you can't look at it from both sides, or put a "what if" scenario on anything, because you can only look at things from one side.

Here we have die hard TNA and WWE fans, and both sides go overboard a little bit. 99% of us at least acknowledge how we would react if it was in a different company instead of worrying how everyone else would react.

1. Fact is, that die hard TNA fanboys, at least the ones on the internet, have posted many times their hatred for all the things that TNA has done in the last year, the only thing different is they were thinking something like that would only happen in the WWE, so it never occured that it would happen to TNA.

Since it did happen to TNA many of the fans have thrown up their hands and said "Yep, Wrestlecrap is wrestlecrap, no matter who does it" and either stick with TNA with hope, or actually like what's going on. Other's unfortunately will keep beating the drum that TNA is superior and thinks more of their wrestler's, hire people based on wrestling skills, etc... and cater to younger wrestler's.

Unfortunately, quite a few TNA fans believe since WWE went PG it means they are targeting six year olds, and since TNA can say all kinds of "adolescent" cussing and blade themselves that they are cattering to an older crowd, and somehow that makes them superior.

The fact of the matter is, you either like TNA's style, or you like WWE's style, or you can watch both. IT doesn't have to be one or the other, as I'm one that watch's both (when I can). Funny that I can find good and bad things in both shows. Anyone here can go tit for tat on Wrestlecrap moves from both perspectives, but it really doesn't matter in the long run. I'm going to watch whichever show I feel like, and if I can, I might even watch them both.

[thommohawk]

The fact of the matter is, you either like TNA's style, or you like WWE's style, or you can watch both. IT doesn't have to be one or the other, as I'm one that watch's both (when I can). Funny that I can find good and bad things in both shows. Anyone here can go tit for tat on Wrestlecrap moves from both perspectives, but it really doesn't matter in the long run. I'm going to watch whichever show I feel like, and if I can, I might even watch them both.

This I agree with. It pains me to say it considering I grew up watching WWF but I can no longer watch them as I find them to be cringe worthy and World Champions not credible. Even the World Title is a mockery with everyone wearing Cena's custom made belt. It just takes everything away for me, as it stands there's 3 reasons to watch WWE for me - Orton, Edge and CM Punk - but the bad outweighs the good so I haven't watched for a couple years now. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was I'd not watched WWE all year and only tuned in for Wrestlemania consecutively and I was stunned at how little had changed....

All thommohawk's posts are borderline flame bait and I dont et why people even bother to stroke his ego with a replay.:confused:

Speaking of flame bait, don't assume to know my motivations would you because you're barking up the wrong tree. I give my opinion and speak my mind and there's nothing more in it....I'm not here to flame anybody and if I come across that way to most people then I can only apologize for that.

If you can't see the Raven influence in Jeff Hardy's recent stuff, you need to check out some vintage ECW-era Raven on Youtube.

I have seen Raven in vintage ECW I know all about that, but being honest with you I still don't see the resemblance or similarities. I'm not being stubborn or anything but I truly don't see it....I think Jeff Hardy has his own off colour style and there's more than enough differences to differentiate from other wrestlers. Same goes for Orton too. Yes there's maybe one or two minor similarities at best on both counts that I see clear as day, but those alone aren't enough to say he's a Raven or Austin rip off. Same as Batista wasn't an Ultimate Warrior rip off. This is all of course just my opinion but I need to be honest. The one that took the biscuit for me was that a lot of people said Goldberg was an Austin rip off or clone based on the pure visual resemblance which granted was highly similar with the bald head, goatee and all black trunks etc but the two gimmicks and workers couldn't have been further from each other otherwise.

[Hyde Hill]

We covered something similar to this a while back. Yes TNA gets more criticised then the WWE for the stuff they do but there are multiple reasons for that. One of the core ones Bigpapa pointed out is that the E has a very stable identity so you know what to expect and not expect and what fits and doesn't fit.

A point I once made is that in part because of the E having that identity people who are dissatisfied or want something different beside the E project those wishes upon TNA. EG TNA being the only mainstream alternative people looking at it want TNA to be exactly what they want TNA to be so they criticise on the basis of what they think it should be or what it possibly could be.

Furthermore its general brand perception, at least on the internet. Where its the cool thing to bash TNA any way you can and find as many ways to do it as you can. This is partly TNA's fault because of their product, partly the fault because some of the internets favourite fall guys are employed by TNA Russo, Bisch, Hogan and partly because some leading IWC pundits seriously dislike TNA.

As I always maintained if you look at it from a distance and categorize in Good, Normal, Bad in the WWE out of ten you will have 1 good 8 normal and 1 bad things. In TNA you will generally have 3 good 3 normal and 4 bad things.

Thing is for my personal taste that balance in TNA has gotten worse. Before I could stomach the bad with the hope it would go away and the fact I saw more good stuff in TNA. But lately the good has lessened imho and the bad increased. Although from what I am reading they are getting their act together a bit more. Not as much to bring me back as a fan yet though.

[crownsy]

I'm sorry but I disagree completely with a lot of this, I haven't seen anyone complain about Orton's gimmick and the whole tit for tat thing *is* relevant because it's the truth - people *do* have such agendas, I'm not saying crap isn't crap - but I just find it funny that TNA get negative comments for most things they do and when WWE does the same thing nobody seems to say a word....now either one of us is covering tracks or simply put we read 2 very different internets lol.

As for the Foley/Anderson time difference thing, I don't buy that and I'll tell you why....yes it *was* a different and more risque time period, but you aren't seriously suggesting that people legitimately know more about concussed wrestlers and serious injury now than back then and that's the reason for the outburst against TNA rather than it being simple fanboy ammo ? And if so, where were you in 1997-1999 ? It doesn't matter if it was a decade ago as time doesn't change the facts. It was still the same thing. WCW have been guilty of it also for what it's worth.

The Hardy/Raven thing is another thing I don't understand, where do people get that comparison from ? I don't see how the two mannerisms or gimmicks are even remotely similar - Hardy's gimmick or current style has about as much in common with Taker as he does with Raven. Which is nothing. Just like Orton has nothing in common with the Austin gimmick.

you lost alot of credibility when you said you haven't seen anyone complain about the orton gimmick.

It's being mocked right now in the WWE thread, and he's often ridiculed on many forums as a poor mans SCSA ripoff.

I'd say he's right beneath cena level with the IWC right now, he's criticized both for the gimmick, lack of wrestling skill, and the baby face superman set move sequence (clothesline-clothesline-counter to power slam-RKO tease)

[Slagaholic]

Reading some spoilers for the 1/27 Impact aaannndd.....Scott Steiner's back!

Also Dixie announced that on 2/24 Impact will be heading on the road.

[20LEgend]

Reading some spoilers for the 1/27 Impact aaannndd.....SPOILER


NO freakin' way, why am I pleased?:p

[thommohawk]

Dixie announced that on 2/24 Impact will be heading on the road.

That's good, TNA don't televise away from the impact zone often enough for me....at least not yet.

@ Hyde Hill, I admit I stopped watching TNA altogether for about 2 months right when Hogan dropped the TNA belt in the trash - I thought here we go WCW Hogan's Heroes run amok for a year or more TNA is done now....that was my first mistake as I missed Dixie's return and her banning Hogan etc, I've recently tuned back in to see titles change hands after another MCMG vs Beer Money epic, AJ being set up as a babyface again, Angle's in ring return, Pope heel hints.... so yeah....there's a lot gone down, I'm not high on Steiner's return though as apparently the network wants to reform the Main Event Mafia but I don't know why as it didn't really work the first time around.

[Slagaholic]

Could you get rid of the spoiler from your quote please? Some people won't want to read it.

[thommohawk]

Done. Apologies to anyone who I've accidentally ruined the surprise for....

Not that it makes a difference as a lot of you seem to think I'm an idiot lol. :rolleyes:

[Hyde Hill]

Done. Apologies to anyone who I've accidentally ruined the surprise for....

Not that it makes a difference as a lot of you seem to think I'm an idiot lol. :rolleyes:

You have also left the spoiler in your reply to me. Highlight to read: And no don't want the MEM back either

[Slagaholic]

Also read on Gerweck.net that...MCMG and GenMe may be broken up and their talents will be headed towards re-building the X-Division. Don't know if it will be an amicable break up or not, but I hope so.

[thommohawk]

You have also left the spoiler in your reply to me. Highlight to read:

Yeah I'm not changing that one lol, it's one thing to erase the spoiler from an automated quote but it's another thing to take the half spoiler out of a body of text that gives my take on the whole thing without erasing or changing the whole thing.....I guess in the words of Mr Anderson...Anderson....I'm an *******! ;)

[The Bus]

NO freakin' way, why am I pleased?:p

Why wouldn't you be pleased? That guy is pure entertainment, if not good stuff he surely shall provide bloopers. :D

[jwt13]

Quick question who is this Crimson guy?

[20LEgend]

Quick question who is this Crimson guy?

Little Red

[20LEgend]

Also read on Gerweck.net that...SPOILER

This is also good and I agree with you, TBF I don't like the later and the former are pretty stale IMO and it's just what they need to rebuild it.

(really had to try hard to not ruin the spoiler)

[Hyde Hill]

Quick question who is this Crimson guy?

Ron Mercer who they brought in from the independents and debuted in a double J double M A segment as Red's "little" brother when he is in fact quite a big guy. They found him via the gut-check challenges and the independent who he headlined for moaned that TNA was stealing their talent.

I may have given up watching it but I am still holding out a small simmer of hope. Really hope the on the road Impact does well. Going out of the Zone "successfully" could mean huge things for TNA in the short, middle and especially long term.

[Wrestling Century]

I know, right? I can't believe people say he's the talented one in MCMG.


IMO he has tons of charisma, and is really talented with his in ring skills, except for the fact that he doesn't really know ring psychology and he doesn't know how to sell. I think that he's way more talented than Chris Sabin. Chris Sabin is a solid wrestler, but IMO he isn't really "great" at anything, and he doesn't have the charisma that Alex Shelley has.

[The Final Countdown]

IMO he has tons of charisma, and is really talented with his in ring skills, except for the fact that he doesn't really know ring psychology and he doesn't know how to sell. I think that he's way more talented than Chris Sabin. Chris Sabin is a solid wrestler, but IMO he isn't really "great" at anything, and he doesn't have the charisma that Alex Shelley has.
I think this is it exactly. I'm not saying Shelley is perfect, but I'll take him over Sabin any day. Sabin is solid, but he's never done anything by himself that has made him stand out in my mind.

[Synticha]

Just watched the first wrestling show in years... And I chose that it would be the newest iMPACT. In overall it was OK even though there were some awful parts.

Karen Jarrett sucks big time while I noticed that RVD and Mr.Anderson somehow have a bit of chemistry. Loved to see Matt in the TNA as I loved his Youtube videos. I might even watch TNA next week...

[Self]

Watched some Genesis. Some thoughts.

- I like heel Jeff Hardy. I think it works for his promo skills. Verbally, he lacks fire, and as a heel he can just talk calmly. It's sad he's trapped in a giant cluster of a stable, because heel Jeff Hardy on his own, with the show revolving around him, could be a much bigger deal than as 1/12th of Immortal.
- Why aren't there any Women in Immortal? If titles are important, "for leverage" as Tenay says, why wouldn't they recruit Madison or Tara?
- Now Lethal has dropped the Black Machismo gimmick I can't begin to care about him. He's boring. The opener was good, but I couldn't really get into it as the personallities weren't floating my boat.
- Beer Money vs MCMG was match of the night for me. Unsurprisingly. Not their best, but really fun tag wrestling. My cup of tea. I still prefer Sabin over Shelley.
- I thought the Matt Hardy vs RVD match was fine. Booking wise they backed these guys into a corner in terms of babyface/heel, and the finish was odd, but I had no problem with Matt's performance, besides thinking he should probably go back to wearing the vest.

[Slagaholic]

Alex Shelly broke his collarbone :(

[Candyman]

Lol at the fans chanting "sloppy seconds" at Karen. Seemed to legitimately fluster Jeff for a moment...

[jwt13]

I was watching House and House sat down turned on the TV and was watching Impact a match with Abyss was on.

[Hyde Hill]

Cool any idea which episode it was?

[brashleyholland]

So I randomly discovered that Impact and all the TNA PPV's are available 'on demand' on my TV. Watched the most recent Impact and thought the ending, with Abyss falling down with that spiky thing in his back was very cool.

So then your man comes out and says "They're coming"...did 'They' already come? Is this another 'They'? Surely they can't be doing the same thing again so soon?

[MichiganHero]

So I randomly discovered that Impact and all the TNA PPV's are available 'on demand' on my TV. Watched the most recent Impact and thought the ending, with Abyss falling down with that spiky thing in his back was very cool.

So then your man comes out and says "They're coming"...did 'They' already come? Is this another 'They'? Surely they can't be doing the same thing again so soon?

Abyss got backstabbed?!?

Them dang evil people.

[1234]

So I randomly discovered that Impact and all the TNA PPV's are available 'on demand' on my TV. Watched the most recent Impact and thought the ending, with Abyss falling down with that spiky thing in his back was very cool.

So then your man comes out and says "They're coming"...did 'They' already come? Is this another 'They'? Surely they can't be doing the same thing again so soon?

Its a new "They" coming to take out the original "They". So basically They are trying to take out They.

Got it :p

[UkWrestleFan]

Its a new "They" coming to take out the original "They". So basically They are trying to take out They.

Got it :p

Heard rumours that "They" are The Main Event Mafia

[LordJaguar]

I hope so because I loved the MEM and that might mean Sting, Nash, and Big Scott Sma..Steiner will be back!

[1234]

Heard rumours that "They" are Spoiler removed

Most Likely (Unfortunately :()

[LordJaguar]

uh...I was serious...

[jwt13]

I love the rumored they so I hope it is

[The Final Countdown]

If the rumored "they" turns out to be true, I may delete Impact from my DVR schedule. I have absolutely no interest in seeing that. Seriously, I don't even have the words to express how horrible an idea I think this is.

[Slagaholic]

Hey man as long as they handle "them" like they did EV2 I wouldn't mind it at all. Hell I'd do it again and again. If this is an idea of how TNA will be utilizing the nostalgia factor from here on out, I wouldn't mind it at all. This is of course assuming this feud is over by Lockdown. If they try to stretch it any longer than that I'll be hopping the fence and joining you in hatersville.

[UkWrestleFan]

If the rumored "they" turns out to be true, I may delete Impact from my DVR schedule. I have absolutely no interest in seeing that. Seriously, I don't even have the words to express how horrible an idea I think this is.

Is that not a bit hasty? Wouldn't you at least give it a chance?

Anyway [Spoilers Below]

Could they not do a 'new' version of the Main Event Mafia? Anderson, Morgan, RVD, AJ etc? Are they all "Main Event" or not? It'll probably be the original MEM, though. Can't see I'm that against it but then again, I can't say it's the greatest idea.

[20LEgend]

TNA will now air on Challenge TV from February:
Challenge can be found on Freeview Channel 46 from February 1, Sky Channel 125 and Virgin Media Channel 139.

[20LEgend]

To hide spoiler It likely to be a mixture IMO and so it should be, Kurt, Booker T (fingers crossed), Steiner, RVD, Anderson and maybe Morgan or Joe

[juggaloninjalee]

I wouldn't mind that rumored THEY but why is Amazing Red's brother the one out yelling that THEY are coming? That is just dumb.

[jhd1]

TNA will now air on Challenge TV from February:
Challenge can be found on Freeview Channel 46 from February 1, Sky Channel 125 and Virgin Media Channel 139.

No doubt Challenge will only be freeview in certain corners of the country (i.e. in London), but I've always thought that TNA's best bet of getting viewers in the UK was to get it off Bravo and onto something that would promote it well (Sky, which would never happen) or something a lot of people could watch (freeview/terrestrial). I probably won't be watching it but still... :p

[The Final Countdown]

Is that not a bit hasty? Wouldn't you at least give it a chance?
If they were used the way Slagaholic suggests, I'd be on board with that. But I don't expect that to be the case. If Immortal has a back-and-forth feud with those guys, I think it does nothing for TNA, short or long term...unless the "They" is set up the way 20LEgend speculates in his spoiler. But, again, I don't expect it to go that way.

[PeterHilton]

Nothing personal guys, but how is it a SPOILER to post unverified rumors? SPOILERS are for things like TV tapings where stuff has actualy happened, but maybe hasn't been seen on TV yet. I'm not whiting out possible storyline scenarios and rumors. That's silly. If that was the case every item posted before the Hogan debut would've been whited out.

In any case: from a strictly storyline standpoint, the MEM makes sense. Angle is outnumbered by JJ and Legacy/Fourtune, so he brings back Nash & Sting (who already have beef with Bischoff & Co) and Steiner/Booker (to even things up)

After that though, the problem becomes that you end up with this monster group feud made up of a lot of the much older members of the roster AND in a weird twist the 'good guys' would be the ex WCW and WWE guys that TNA smarks like to complain about

I mean..the pay off PPV line up would be something like Angle v Jarrett, Sting v AJ, Booker/Steiner vs Beer Money (all repeats of extended feuds) and ...Nash v Rob Terry (possibly? who knows?) ...

I suppose you could add RVD, Anderson, Joe (is Pope still alive?) but then why call it the MEM?

Again, it makes sense from a storyline perspective but im not sure the pay off would be worth it

[Self]

No doubt Challenge will only be freeview in certain corners of the country (i.e. in London), but I've always thought that TNA's best bet of getting viewers in the UK was to get it off Bravo and onto something that would promote it well (Sky, which would never happen) or something a lot of people could watch (freeview/terrestrial). I probably won't be watching it but still... :p

Challenge TV is set to become a Freeview channel on February 1st. Granted, I haven't googled this extensively, but it looks nationwide. Impact on free (if obscure, game-show infested) tv? I might just watch it again.

In other news, I agree with PeterHilton. Spoilers are things that have happened. If you don't want to be exposed to theories and rumours, don't enter a discussion thread.

[jhd1]

Challenge TV is set to become a Freeview channel on February 1st. Granted, I haven't googled this extensively, but it looks nationwide. Impact on free (if obscure, game-show infested) tv? I might just watch it again.

'Us up north' only have the BBC and ITV channels and that is it. We are clearly not worthy of age-old repeats of Catchphrase :p

[MichiganHero]

'Us up north' only have the BBC and ITV channels and that is it. We are clearly not worthy of age-old repeats of Catchphrase :p

I think I get Challenge in Scotland :S

[juggaloninjalee]

I wouldn't mind the Angle vs Jarrett match due to the build up. Also would like to see the Sting vs AJ match if they gave it a proper build up. Other than that I wouldn't be very interested in a MEM vs Immortal feud.

[PeterHilton]

I wouldn't mind the Angle vs Jarrett match due to the build up. Also would like to see the Sting vs AJ match if they gave it a proper build up. Other than that I wouldn't be very interested in a MEM vs Immortal feud.

I literally change the channel every time I see JJ on screen

I think AJ/Sting has been done so often and Sting's character has been turned so often that it would be hard to get most people to care.

[Self]

'Us up north' only have the BBC and ITV channels and that is it. We are clearly not worthy of age-old repeats of Catchphrase :p

Used to live up by the Scottish border, and I had a freeview box on my telly up there. Got all those channels fine.

[jhd1]

Used to live up by the Scottish border, and I had a freeview box on my telly up there. Got all those channels fine.

Yeah, we must just be forgotten around here :D

I did a check on the Freeview website with my postcode and it reveals that we receive the 'most popular' channels (basically, BBC 1,2,3,4, news etc.). We have Sky so Freeview's hit-and-miss distribution doesn't actually make a difference to me.

[Fantabulous]

Appropriate that a program that is a struggle sit through is on a channel called Challenge.

[20LEgend]

Appropriate that a program that is a struggle sit through is on a channel called Challenge.

:p:D

[1234]

Normally I hate it when advertisements on web pages are the result of being tracked (I.E I look at a game on Play.com and now on the next 5 webpages I visit there is an advert from play with that game on) but this one made me happy.

http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/main/1/2607242826.jpg

I think TNA need more control over their advertising :p

[20LEgend]

TNA sort it out :p

[Purple Cowboy]

Naitch needs to tone it down a bit, he's going to have a heart attack!

[jwt13]

Scott Steiner is trending World wide on twitter

[BHK1978]

Naitch needs to tone it down a bit, he's going to have a heart attack!

Yeah he has become way to over the top since he went to TNA. It is almost like he is a parody of himself.

[jwt13]

Yeah he has become way to over the top since he went to TNA. It is almost like he is a parody of himself.

I think he's just being himself after the years of Vince telling him how to stuff at WWE

[BHK1978]

I think he's just being himself after the years of Vince telling him how to stuff at WWE

I do not remember his promos from the NWA/WCW days being that incoherent. Maybe they were and I just don't remember anymore.

[angeldelayette]

Is it horrible that I have this big goofy smile on my face at the return of Scott Steiner? Holla If You Hear Me! I am looking forward to the hopeful and possible return of the Main Event Mafia. Maybe even having Kevin Nash, Sting and Booker T all return as well.

[jwt13]

Impact had a1.3 with a avarge veiwership of 1.9 million which is 3rd best in company history

[Slagaholic]

TNA has had a good run of ratings in the new year. There's definitely been a better display of a consistent direction they're heading in. Hope they can keep it up long term.

[Jaysin]

Dumb question. I'm super behind on TNA and just now getting caught up. On Wikipedia it says Desmond Wolfe and Magnus saved Douglas Williams from Rob Terry and AJ Styles on the January 6th edition of Impact. All these Impacts I'm watching are downloaded, so I'm not sure where they were shown originally, but this didn't happen in what I'm seeing. Did it actually happen?

What I saw as Terry and AJ beat Williams down and then they cut to Bubba Ray walking towards the parking lot.

*edit*
I think I may have read wiki wrong. I just noticed it said non televised...ugh lame.

[GruntMark]

Scott Steiner is priceless. TNA is infinity times better with his presence.

[20LEgend]

Dumb question. I'm super behind on TNA and just now getting caught up. On Wikipedia it says Desmond Wolfe and Magnus saved Douglas Williams from Rob Terry and AJ Styles on the January 6th edition of Impact. All these Impacts I'm watching are downloaded, so I'm not sure where they were shown originally, but this didn't happen in what I'm seeing. Did it actually happen?

What I saw as Terry and AJ beat Williams down and then they cut to Bubba Ray walking towards the parking lot.

*edit*
I think I may have read wiki wrong. I just noticed it said non televised...ugh lame.

I saw that and thought the exact same, I was very disappointed! I hope they might be oart of they but I doubt it

Scott Steiner is priceless. TNA is infinity times better with his presence.

This is spot on!

[Fantabulous]

Good news; Booker T and Kevin Nash have signed. Just not with TNA...

I wanted to play safe in regard to spoilers.

[Slagaholic]

I don't mind it, nor am I shocked. I also believe that this goes to prove that TNA must is serious about cutting costs.

[20LEgend]

I wanted to play safe in regard to spoilers.

No way! I'm :D + :( as well as :confused: all at the same time

[Fantabulous]

It's things like this that make you wonder if Dixie and co. have some kind of disorder that compels them to leave themselves open to getting shafted in some fashion.

[Slagaholic]

How did they get shafted by not sending a brinks truck to Booker T and Kevin Nash's estates?

[jwt13]

They could still have the MEM with Kurt, Sting, Steiner, Joe, Crimson

[Slagaholic]

Exactly. There would still be three guys from the original MEM run.

[Fantabulous]

Two key players of the original storyline they are reprising, a storyline which they were counting on to turn things around and which will have already been written out and has already begun getting pushed, have been taken right out of it. Now, they not only have to rewrite everything from scratch, and change whatever developed from it, they now have to compensate for the fact that those two key players are going to be part of their competition.

All of which could have been avoided by making sure the key players in their big storyline, a storyline they were counting on to turn things around, were under contract before they started it.

Fans of a promotion that fails to grasp common sense in failure to grasp common sense shocker!

It's a good idea to make sure key players in your main angle are under contract to you before you start it

[Slagaholic]

You're making a ton of unfair and unconfirmed assumptions.

Assumption 1: That TNA had begun this storyline with Booker T and Kevin Nash planned to be key players.

Assumption 2: That TNA had begun this storyline with the return of Booker T and Kevin Nash working matches in mind.

Assumption 3: That TNA had begun this storyline relying on Booker T and Kevin Nash so heavily that the entire storyline has to be re-written.

Assumption 4: That Booker T and Kevin Nash will add a single viewer to WWE TV.

Assumption 5: That having 3 original members of a stable isn't enough to stage a proper reunion. Let's not go into the revolving stable door of the Horsemen.

So basically what I'm saying is: you're using a classic straw man argument.

[jwt13]

And we dont have to see a major storyline that has you no who wrestling

[20LEgend]

Is Feb 3rd already been taped since TNA are in Europe aren't they now?

[jwt13]

No it will be taped tomorrow

[jwt13]

Does anybody even know if this is just a one time deal if so they could back Mondays tapings

[20LEgend]

Is the TV title out with Abyss or dya think they'll vacate it?

[lazorbeak]

So basically what I'm saying is: you're using a classic straw man argument.

First, even if it's a bad argument, that's not a straw man argument, and second, what on earth does your fourth assumption have to do with anything? I don't even necessarily disagree with you: I think they're jumping the gun here by crapping on a storyline before its gotten rolling. While I think it looks like a bad idea on paper, maybe it'll work itself out.

[Slagaholic]

Yes it is. He wasn't attacking TNA for anything they've actually done but instead drew up baseless conclusions and consequences that TNA will have to deal with that he made up on the spot. I believe that's a straw man argument.

The fourth assumption is relevant because his statement that "they now have to compensate for the fact that those two key players are going to be part of their competition" implies that Nash and Booker signing for WWE will either hurt TNA business or help WWE business. I was pointing out that it would do neither.

[lazorbeak]

Yes it is. He wasn't attacking TNA for anything they've actually done but instead drew up baseless conclusions and consequences that TNA will have to deal with that he made up on the spot. I believe that's a straw man argument.


No, that is not a straw man, and yes, you used the term incorrectly. A straw man is when you make a facsimile of someone else's argument and then shoot it down, which is not what Fantabulous was doing at all.

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position."

He's not refuting anyone's proposition, so he's not making a straw man argument, regardless of whether you agree with what he's saying.

Like I said, it's not even that I disagree with you, I'm just letting you know that you're using terms incorrectly and adding unnecessary assumptions.

[Comradebot]

Christ, TNA now has Mr. Anderson AND Scott Steiner?

AND OLD MAN NASH WON'T BE SUCKING UP THEIR SHOWS?!

Damnit, now I HAVE to watch. Curses!



Seriously, Scott Steiner can make the absolutely worst segments golden. Loved the "I'm here to kick your ass... I'm here to kill all your asses... HAH!?!"

God bless him.

[Jaysin]

Big Poppa Pump is your hook up...HOLLA IF YA HEAR ME!

[Slagaholic]

No, that is not a straw man, and yes, you used the term incorrectly. A straw man is when you make a facsimile of someone else's argument and then shoot it down, which is not what Fantabulous was doing at all.

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position."

He's not refuting anyone's proposition, so he's not making a straw man argument, regardless of whether you agree with what he's saying.

Like I said, it's not even that I disagree with you, I'm just letting you know that you're using terms incorrectly and adding unnecessary assumptions.

Fair enough. Consider me pwned.

[Jaysin]

Ya know, it might be only a month or so away before TNA is ballin'!

[sebsplex]

Tbh...

No great loss in my book. Booker was completely mailing in his matches last time out in TNA and whilst Nash is gold on the mic, he can barely move around in the ring and can only really figure effectively when shielded in tag team matches, etc.

Besides, I'd rather not see a complete recast of the MEM with Booker and Nash included. I've no idea whether TNA had seriously written out the storyline with them specifically cast, but even so it wouldn't be all that difficult to interchange a few pieces or change the world champion premise of the group...

Angle, Stiener and Samoa Joe as the corre (sorry, core) of the group), with Sting a possible added bonus if he ever returns to TNA.

You could add Matt Morgan (courted by Angle as a potential MEM member before their brief feud), Crimson as the messenger and a-n-other face if needed to bulk up the numbers.

[BHK1978]

Spoilers: In order to read just highlight the post: Was Booker even part of the original plan? I read only Kevin Nash was supposed to be coming back. With the two of them at the RR last night, I would love to see Team Angle as their replacements. I doubt it would happen as both are pretty bland speakers but wrestling wise it would be great.

[20LEgend]

Spoilers: [/COLOR]

Dunno but I'd like who you suggested as replacements (or Gregory Helms he has history with The Hardyz and it can get Moore a push!)

[eayragt]

Spoilers: In order to read just highlight the post:

I have to agree - he left the group early, didn't even take a defeat on his way out - I'm not quite sure what he would have added. I'm sure that they didn't want exactly the same group, and he was certainly the most obvious person to replace.

[TracyBrooksFan]

PWTorch is tracking stats for TNA TV episodes, house shows, and PPV events throughout 2011. At the end of each month, we will post a broad overview of TNA stats we cover each week.

List of TNA Titles and Champions

TNA World Title (date won)
Champion: Jeff Hardy (10/10/10 BFG PPV)
2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
-- pinfall win vs. Tetsuya Naitoh (01/04/11 Tokyo Dome Show)
-- pinfall loss vs. Mr. Anderson (01/09/11 Genesis PPV)

(2) Champion: Mr. Anderson (01/01/11 Genesis PPV)
2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
-- vs. Jeff Hardy (02/03/11 Impact TV)

TNA Tag Titles (date won)
Champions: Motor City Machineguns (07/11/10 Victory Road PPV)
2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
-- pinfall loss vs. Beer Money (01/09/11 Genesis PPV)

(2) Champions: Beer Money (01/09/11 Genesis PPV)
2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
-- pinfall vs. Machineguns (01/13/11 Impact TV)

TNA TV Title (date won)
Champion: Douglas Williams (12/5/10 Turning Point PPV)
2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
-- pinfall loss vs. Abyss (01/09/11 Genesis PPV)

(2) Champion: Abyss (01/09/11 Genesis PPV)
2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
-- ???

X Division Title (date won)
Champion: Jay Lethal (12/16/10 Impact)
2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
-- pinfall loss vs. Kazarian (01/09/11 Genesis PPV)

(2) Champion: Kazarian (01/09/11 Genesis PPV)
2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
-- pinfall vs. Jay Lethal (01/20/11 Impact TV)

Knockouts Title (date won)
Champion: Madison Rayne (10/14/10 Impact)
2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
-- pinfall vs. Mickie James (01/09/11 Genesis PPV)

Knockouts Tag Titles (date won)
Champions: Angelina Love & Winter (12/23/10 Impact)
2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
-- pinfall vs. Madison Rayne & Tara (01/13/11 Impact TV)

***

Wrestlers Win/Loss Records

Male wrestlers Win/Loss Records
2011 Win-Loss-No Decision ... [2011 TV/PPV Records] ... 2011 Streak

Samoa Joe (3-0-0) ... [0-0-0] ...
Brother Ray (1-0-0) ... [1-0-0] ... W1
James Storm (13-1-0) ... [4-0-0] ... W4
Robert Roode (13-1-0) ... [4-0-0] ... W4
Mr. Anderson (14-3-0) ... [3-2-0] ... W1
Kazarian (13-3-0) ... [3-1-0] ... W3
Matt Morgan (9-3-0) ... [2-1-0] ... W2
Jeff Jarrett (8-6-1) ... [2-0-1] ... W2
Rob Van Dam (7-5-0) ... [0-4-0] ... L4
Abyss (4-2-0) ... [1-2-0] ... L1
Alex Shelley (4-2-0) ... [1-2-0] ... L2
Jay Lethal (3-2-0) ... [1-2-0] ... L2
Rob Terry (2-2-0) ... [1-2-0] ... W1
Jeff Hardy (5-8-0) ... [2-1-0] ... W2
Shannon Moore (3-6-0) ... [0-0-0]
Chris Sabin (4-10-0) ... [1-3-0] ... L3
Matt Hardy (3-7-0) ... [2-1-0] ... L1
Buck, Max (1-3-0) ... [1-0-0] ... W1
Doug Williams (1-11-0) ... [1-1-0] ... L1
The Pope Dinero (1-11-0) ... [0-0-0] ...
Kurt Angle (0-1-1) ... [0-1-1] ... L1
A.J. Styles (0-1-0) ... [0-1-0] ... L1
Crimson (0-1-0) ... [0-1-0] ... L1
Amazing Red (0-1-0) ... [0-1-0] ... L1
Brother Devon (0-1-0) ... [0-1-0] ... L1
Jesse Neal (0-2-0) ... [0-0-0] ...
Tommy Dreamer (0-3-0) ... [0-1-0] ... L1
Brian Kendrick (0-3-0) ... [0-0-0] ...
Buck, Jeremy (0-3-0) ... [0-0-0] ...
Robbie E. (0-5-0) ... [0-0-0] ...
Brutus Magnus (0-7-0) ... [0-0-0] ...
Irregulars
Ric Flair (1-0-0) ... [0-0-0] ...
Gunner (1-0-0) ... [1-0-0] ... W1
Murphy (1-0-0) ... [1-0-0] ... W1
Murat Bosporus (0-1-0) ... [0-0-0]
Lionheart (0-1-0) ... [0-0-0]
Johnny Moss (0-1-0) ... [0-0-0]
Mark Haskins (0-7-0) ... [0-0-0] ...

Knockouts Win/Loss Records
2011 Win-Loss-No Decision ... [2011 TV/PPV Records] ... 2011 Streak

Winter (1-0-0) ... [1-0-0] ... W1
Angelina Love (8-1-0) ... [2-0-0] ... W2
Mickie James (9-7-0) ... [2-2-0] ... W2
Sarita (1-1-0) ... [1-2-0] ... L2
Madison Rayne (7-9-0) ... [2-3-0] ... L3
Velvet Sky (1-2-0) ... [1-2-0] ... W1
Tara (0-7-0) ... [0-2-0] ... L2

***
KennedyMrArt_130GG_56.jpg

2011 Most Matches Wrestled

Mr. Anderson - 17
Kazarian - 16
Madison Rayne - 16
Mickie James - 16
Jeff Jarrett - 15
James Storm - 14
Robert Roode - 14
Chris Sabin - 14
Jeff Hardy - 13
Matt Morgan - 12
The Pope - 12
Rob Van Dam - 12
Doug Williams - 12
Matt Hardy - 10

***

2011 PPV Main Events

Mr. Anderson - 1
Matt Morgan - 1
Jeff Hardy - 1

***

2011 TV Main Events

Rob Van Dam - 3
Robert Roode - 2
Mr. Anderson - 2
Jeff Jarrett - 2
James Storm - 2

***

2011 House Show Main Events

Mr. Anderson - 11
Jeff Hardy - 9
Rob Van Dam - 4
Matt Hardy - 3
Jeff Jarrett - 3
Matt Morgan - 2

***

List of Best Matches for monthly PPVs

1/9 Genesis PPV - Guns vs. Beer Money (37 percent), Mr. Anderson vs. Jeff Hardy (26 percent)

[Hyde Hill]

According to some sources spoiler highlight to read; Daniels is back! He wrestled on Xplosion to beat kendrick and was sighted by fans as playing the role and being backstage. Still rumour though.

[1234]

According to some sources spoiler highlight to read;

Yay & Nooo. Higlight for reasons TNA need him so that would be good but so do the company he is currently working for.

[Save_Us.Necro]

Thoughts in highlight

Not really shocked Daniels is back as I read his time out of TNA was temporary. I do feel bad for ROH if true as they're losing another guy they're banking on. Espically now that EVOLVE and DGUSA are looking stronger and stronger

[Hyde Hill]

First off all remember its all rumour at this point, further opinion highlight:

He could still work for both though as ROH lost the tv deal he just couldn't do ppv any more likely. Still really hoping its true as for longer term and former TNA fans AJ, Joe, Daniels = TNA. And I really feel that TNA should focus on getting the people back who have given up on them at this point in time.

[PeterHilton]

Well according to rumor sites:

He's working as Suicide. With the possibility of working as Curry Man again. SO yeah..it won't affect his ROH dates which is great but it also probably won't exactly satisfy any of the longtiime TNA fans who wanted him back

Also...say the tapings and it turns out THEY/THEM was nowhere near as entertaining as I'd hoped.

[Slagaholic]

My thoughts with spoilers: Looks like TNA was in fact banking on Booker T and Nash. Disappointing that they didn't have enough foresight yet again. BUT it could end up being a good thing for TNA to start running out of big names. Daniels coming back is great, no matter what the capacity or gimmick.

WWE may have screwed them over for this show, and the IWC will tear an abdominal muscle laughing at TNA yet again. But long term I think this could be a good thing for TNA. TNA is always better when AJ Styles is a face. No matter how contrived his turn was it's still better for TNA in the long run. This "they" may be a bust but then again the spoilers never come across well. I'll wait to see Impact edited together before I make a decisive choice. Hell for all we know they could shoot a completely different angle tonight.

[Hyde Hill]

I like this direction better then the original MEM idea and with that return I think I am ready to give TNA another shot. Too bad they had to be possibly forced by the E and to book it convelutadly again but still, this is more a direction I would like.

[liontamer]

Read the spoilers for the first time in a long while and the ME of both shows and the big reveal has me scratching my head. I understand and saw parts, but not all of it coming and didn't think it was going to be part of the storyline for 2/3. I'm interested to see how it comes off on camera, the written report sounds akward, but the people involved have the skills to make it work.

Also, I find the stats post above interesting, but questionable. How can Matt Hardy already be 3-7 in TNA? Or did I miss something.

[Self]

Mark Haskins (0-7-0) ... [0-0-0] ...


Poor Mark Haskins. He's awesome. I hope he gets something from that tour, although I wonder whether TNA is really a step up from what he's doing in Dragon Gate.

[20LEgend]

Not seen any of the spoilers but Bishcoffs run down of Nash was pretty coo

[20LEgend]

Who is TNA's number 2 heel now? Matt Hardy?

Edit: Forgot about Jarrett because he sucks, TNA need a balance

[jwt13]

That was the best Impact in a while IMO

[20LEgend]

Didn't Crimson attack AJ

[juggaloninjalee]

Didn't Crimson attack AJ

They will justify it by not saying anything about that or that they planned that so Immortal wouldn't be on to them. This is wrestling stuff like this always happens.

I like that Fortune have left Immortal. To me it came off ok and a Jeff Hardy vs AJ Styles feud could be good. Gunnar and Murphy will get a slight push (not that I want this) and Matt Hardy can go for the X-Title. I don't like Matt Hardy but at least it is reasonable where things are I guess. They have options and fresh match ups going forward.

[Eisen-verse]

Tonight's Impact was actually a pretty good show; for the most part. I like the Kennedy/Hardy stuff (which is saying a lot seeing how I don't like either really), the Jarrett/Karen stuff was pretty solid from a building storyline perspective (hoping they are doing all of this in which to enrage Kurt Angle more; creating a real-life scenario storyline), and the ending was pretty solid.

Immortal may have been a good idea on paper but it really failed to do anything for me. In all honesty, as we've said many of times, TNA is on the cusp of something really great (given how they shoot, display, and perpetuate their product from a production standpoint) but just need something to really get them there.

It's impossible but I wish TNA could simply take a step back, completely stop what they're doing now, wipe our minds free of what we've seen for a bit, and completely overhaul their roster; creating factions that actually carry their own weight. I don't mean that to sound harsh; I just really feel like some changes need to come.

In a somewhat related note, really.... Scott Steiner is back?

Really?

[Hyde Hill]

Read the spoilers for the first time in a long while and the ME of both shows and the big reveal has me scratching my head. I understand and saw parts, but not all of it coming and didn't think it was going to be part of the storyline for 2/3. I'm interested to see how it comes off on camera, the written report sounds akward, but the people involved have the skills to make it work.

Also, I find the stats post above interesting, but questionable. How can Matt Hardy already be 3-7 in TNA? Or did I miss something.

I am pretty sure this includes house show results and Hardy was losing to RVD on the last run. Don't know why because those are almost meaningless. I might actually watch this impact.

[thommohawk]

I'm glad Fortune have turned on Immortal, I think almost all of Fortune are better as babyfaces, especially Beer Money and AJ. Beer Money work well as heels at least but they're better as faces imo, AJ just doesn't work as a heel. Him like HBK is just too good and entertaining for that. But where HBK succeeded where AJ fails is in his ability to cut really good promos and the natural charisma. AJ is like Angle, not that great on the mic but in the ring he's one of the best.

I still expect Steiner to defect to Immortal for sure, maybe even Kaz and Crimson too, interesting to see what happens with Ric Flair now or if he's done with TNA. Maybe this is winding up the Hogan/Bischoff regime. I still think they're good for TNA behind the scenes, especially Bischoff, just not when they're dominating air time over TNA talent and playing politics.

In any case it wouldn't surprise me to see Sting return to side with Fortune/TNA if he doesn't go to WWE. Nor would it surprise me to see Joe/Daniels (if back) join Team TNA, but imo those two would be better served declining and doing their own thing especially Joe. Joe would be best served being promoted as a real bad ass. Daniels should be a heel and feud with AJ. And I really want Joe vs Daniels vs AJ III as I didn't see the first one, but that last one I saw a year ago was frickin awesome!!

[juggaloninjalee]

In the late 80s early 90s WWF had Hulk Hogan as the face of the company. In the early 90s WCW had Sting. Who is TNA's? I think AJ Styles.

TNA needs to realize that AJ Styles is the face of their company and they need to finally build him that way. Don't have him floundering around a secondary title. He needs to be towards the top of the card on a regular basis. He is a former World Champion and should be treated and respected as one.

He may not be the best wrestler or most over but the ultimate success I feel lies on his shoulders. So if TNA drops the ball with him that doesn't mean all hope is lost but I think it will make things harder for them.

I may be wrong but that's my opinion.

[20LEgend]

They will justify it by not saying anything about that or that they planned that so Immortal wouldn't be on to them. This is wrestling stuff like this always happens.


Was anyone else in the room with him, Maybe Ric Flair, if he wasn't in on it that's ok but if he returns as a face it will be stupid,:confused:

[juggaloninjalee]

Was anyone else in the room with him, Maybe Ric Flair, if he wasn't in on it that's ok but if he returns as a face it will be stupid,:confused:

I've seen on message boards that Ric Flair is supposedly leaving TNA soon.

[PeterHilton]

AJ is like Angle, not that great on the mic but in the ring he's one of the best.

Of all the ridiculous things you've said, this is the MOST ridiculous

[Fantabulous]

Someone get the torches and pitchforks; how dare someone describe Kurt Angle as less than awesome at something.

Kurt Angle is like Roddy Piper in my view; they have great delivery and are very into what they say and it gets over great and people love it. But if you actually stop for five seconds and listen to the words they've said rather than how they say them, you realize they haven't actually said anything that amazing.

To me, it's akin to the difference between being a great wrestler and a great worker; the great wrestler is good at the mechanics while the great wrestler is good at getting a reaction and eliciting emotion. Hulk Hogan's matches got great reactions and the people were super into them, but if you look at what he does, he doesn't really do a whole lot and is rather average at it to boot. But the great workers don't really have do a lot or even be good at it, because they get the desired result, the people getting into the match, anyway.

When it comes to interviews, there is being a great at knowing what to say (the mechanics) and being great at how you say it (the delivery; getting emotion) with some people being good at both. Kurt Angle and Roddy Piper are great at the delivery but not so much the mechanics. I mean, can someone direct me to a Kurt Angle interview where, if you listen to what he says rather than how he says it, the words actually do what a promo is meant to do?

[PeterHilton]

Kurt Angle is like Roddy Piper in my view; they have great delivery and are very into what they say and it gets over great and people love it. But if you actually stop for five seconds and listen to the words they've said rather than how they say them, you realize they haven't actually said anything that amazing.

I kind of thought that was the point of a promo.

[Self]

Angle's a really good promo, but I agree he isn't a great promo.

Beer Money are better as babyfaces. I was so annoyed when they turned heel back in January. It was the first step in me losing interest in Hogan's regime.

AJ is also better as a babyface, although he's improved his heel schtick commendably. I think the problem with building around AJ is that they've tried it several times before, and given up, so now there's a certain stink of failure on him. Also, AJ Styles in 2010 is the exact same guy as in 2005. There's practically no difference, and nothing new or exciting he looks like he can provide. I reckon TNA need a young, fresh guy to put at the top of their ladder... but the ship sailed on AJ last year.

[PeterHilton]

Based on the variety of character he's played, the fact that he's equally effective as a heel and a face, and the fact that he can do comedy just as well as he does a strictly serious character, I'd say Kurt is AT WORST a sold B/B+ on the mic.

And that's mainly because his stuff in TNA brings him down when you compare him to the genius of his stuff in the E while working with/against Austin, The Rock, and HBK (Sexy Kurt???really?? no one remembers Sexy Kurt???)

So saying he's 'not that great' is ridiculous and comparing him to AJ is way off base. He's head and shoulders above AJ Styles.

[juggaloninjalee]

Based on the variety of character he's played, the fact that he's equally effective as a heel and a face, and the fact that he can do comedy just as well as he does a strictly serious character, I'd say Kurt is AT WORST a sold B/B+ on the mic.

And that's mainly because his stuff in TNA brings him down when you compare him to the genius of his stuff in the E while working with/against Austin, The Rock, and HBK (Sexy Kurt???really?? no one remembers Sexy Kurt???)

So saying he's 'not that great' is ridiculous and comparing him to AJ is way off base. He's head and shoulders above AJ Styles.

I agree Angle is the best wrestler and one of the best promo men in TNA. He is far too old to be the face of TNA though. They need that person you can always look at and say that guy is TNA and TNA is that guy. To me it has always been AJ Styles. Not saying a new guy couldn't be in that position though.

[PeterHilton]

I agree Angle is the best wrestler and one of the best promo men in TNA. He is far too old to be the face of TNA though. They need that person you can always look at and say that guy is TNA and TNA is that guy. To me it has always been AJ Styles. Not saying a new guy couldn't be in that position though.

I actually agree. When he first signed, Kurt could have and should have been THE guy alongside AJ. But that boat has sailed and TNA squandered their chance.

[Fantabulous]

I kind of thought that was the point of a promo.

The point of a promo is to draw money. Freddie Blassie put it best when he said the point of an interview is to draw money and if you're doing it for any other reason you're doing it for the wrong reason.

To put it in more simple terms, Kurt's promo's get over on how he delivers them rather than the material he's delivering. Now, that isn't to say Kurt can't do a promo that gets an issue over and makes people want to see the match in question. I just wouldn't mind being pointed in the direction of one. Because for all the talk of Kurt being great on the mic, and his delivery is good-to-great which I would not deny, I've rarely if ever heard of Kurt cutting a money promo. I've heard, and seen, him cut some highly entertaining promo's and ones that made me laugh. But they've never made me interested in the match he's trying to put over or the feud he's pushing. Which is the point of a promo.

[PeterHilton]

But they've never made me interested in the match he's trying to put over or the feud he's pushing. Which is the point of a promo.

I'd say that's your personal preference though. The promos he cut on Lesnar leading up to and following WM...his work putting over Cena where he was by FAR the biger star at the time...everything leading up to his match with HBK at WM..even the stuff surrounding Kennedy and that wacky medal in TNA...those would all be my examples of promos that helped drive the feud and made me want to watch.

[juggaloninjalee]

I'd say that's your personal preference though. The promos he cut on Lesnar leading up to and following WM...his work putting over Cena where he was by FAR the biger star at the time...everything leading up to his match with HBK at WM..even the stuff surrounding Kennedy and that wacky medal in TNA...those would all be my examples of promos that helped drive the feud and made me want to watch.

I agree with this in full.

[The Final Countdown]

I'd say that's your personal preference though. The promos he cut on Lesnar leading up to and following WM...his work putting over Cena where he was by FAR the biger star at the time...everything leading up to his match with HBK at WM..even the stuff surrounding Kennedy and that wacky medal in TNA...those would all be my examples of promos that helped drive the feud and made me want to watch.
If this forum had a 'Like' button, I would use it for this post. Angle is one of the best promo guys in the business. AJ may be at or near his level wrestling-wise, but he's not even close to him on the microphone.

[thommohawk]

Of all the ridiculous things you've said, this is the MOST ridiculous

Ooooohh pot, kettle, black! SPEAKING OF RIDICULOUS!! Dude you just disagree for the sake of disagreeing with me, go troll someone else...

Look at the facts, neither AJ or Angle are that great on the mic...that is a stone wall fact. Are either Angle or AJ to The Rock's standard on the mic or even anywhere near ?! hell frickin no...like it or not that's a fact. And there's a multitude of guys who're also much better that either Angle or AJ on the mic who have more charisma or ability to deliver. So therefore, what I said holds true - those two aren't that great on the mic. Simple as. There's nothing wrong with either on the mic, but at the same time they are just not that great. You know it as well as I do so stop lying to yourself and everyone else just to disagree with me. I wouldn't mind but I'll bet you said the same thing at some point or another. LMAO!! Get real.

[PeterHilton]

If this forum had a 'Like' button, I would use it for this post. Angle is one of the best promo guys in the business. AJ may be at or near his level wrestling-wise, but he's not even close to him on the microphone.

Thanks, I clearly feel the same way.

But I don't think Fantabulous is saying anything unreasonable. He's said that Kurt is entertaining and has good delivery. My only complaint way back when was in the statement that he's 'not that great' which - to me - signifies someone who is totally average and unremarkable on the mic AND that he's comparable to AJ.

Like you said...AJ isn't even close.

[PeterHilton]

Look at the facts, neither AJ or Angle are that great on the mic...that is a stone wall fact.

I don't think you know what the word 'fact' means.

I never said Angle was as good as The Rock. But he's much MUCH better than AJ. And obviously that's not just my opinion.Even Fantabulous said he was better than you gave him credit for.

If you don't think so, that's fine...but it's not a FACT. It's your OPINION.

[Fantabulous]

I'll bite.

Saying Kurt Angle or AJ aren't to The Rock's standard on the mic is probably true but The Rock was one of a kind. Someone that good on the mic doesn't come along very often, so to knock someone's mic skills because they aren't as good as The Rock is like trying to knock someone's drawing power because they didn't do the business The Rock or Steve Austin did. You're comparing them to a level that few people ever get close to.

Who are these people that are better on the mic than AJ and Kurt and have more ability to deliver? It would help if you could back up such a statement with some names.

[PeterHilton]

I'll bite.

Saying Kurt Angle or AJ aren't to The Rock's standard on the mic is probably true but The Rock was one of a kind. Someone that good on the mic doesn't come along very often, so to knock someone's mic skills because they aren't as good as The Rock is like trying to knock someone's drawing power because they didn't do the business The Rock or Steve Austin did. You're comparing them to a level that few people ever get close to.

Who are these people that are better on the mic than AJ and Kurt and have more ability to deliver? It would help if you could back up such a statement with some names.

No sure how active you've been in this thread in the past, but thommohawk is not exactly the most reasonable or rational guy to debate with. Good luck with this. :)

[thommohawk]

My only complaint way back when was in the statement that he's 'not that great' which - to me - signifies someone who is totally average and unremarkable on the mic AND that he's comparable to AJ.

Oh dude come on, you speak as if Angle's one of the best workers of the mic in the history of wrestling when he's clearly far from it....Fact is if AJ is nowhere Angle then what does that make Angle next to someone like The Rock ?? He's nowhere near the great mic workers....hence my comment.

Also for what it's worth, which is clearly very little, I actually thought AJ delivered a very good promo against Bischoff at the end of this week's Impact, I thought he did very well. Though I have a feeling there was some real emotion driving that. As for Angle I'm not saying he isn't good, he quite clearly is, but he's not great. The Rock is great on mic, Jake Roberts in his prime was great on mic, HBK is great on mic, Jericho is great on mic. In the ring is a whole different story but on the mic Angle isn't anywhere near these either in natural charisma or line delivery.

[Fantabulous]

No sure how active you've been in this thread in the past, but thommohawk is not exactly the most reasonable or rational guy to debate with. Good luck with this. :)
I'm familiar with his reputation but I'll see what happens.

[PeterHilton]

Oh dude come on, you speak as if Angle's one of the best workers of the mic in the history of wrestling when he's clearly far from it....Fact is if AJ is nowhere Angle then what does that make Angle next to someone like The Rock ?? He's nowhere near the great mic workers....hence my comment.

Also for what it's worth, which is clearly very little, I actually thought AJ delivered a very good promo against Bischoff at the end of this week's Impact, I thought he did very well. Though I have a feeling there was some real emotion driving that. As for Angle I'm not saying he isn't good, he quite clearly is, but he's not great. The Rock is great on mic, Jake Roberts in his prime was great on mic, HBK is great on mic, Jericho is great on mic. In the ring is a whole different story but on the mic Angle isn't anywhere near these either in natural charisma or line delivery.

Meh. All you're really saying is that Kurt Angle isn't as great as the top 1% of the workers in the history of the industry.

Fine. If you don't think he's at those historic upper levels, that's totally fair. But he's better than a vast majority of the people working today. He has been for just about his entire career. And to me, that makes him 'great.'

It's like you're saying that a guy has to be one of the top promo guys EVER to be considered great, and I don't think that's true.

[thommohawk]

Meh. All you're really saying is that Kurt Angle isn't as great as the top 1% of the workers in the history of the industry.

Fine. If you don't think he's at those historic upper levels, that's totally fair. But he's better than a vast majority of the people working today. He has been for just about his entire career. And to me, that makes him 'great.'

It's like you're saying that a guy has to be one of the top promo guys EVER to be considered great, and I don't think that's true.

Okay me and you clearly have differing opinions on what constitutes being 'great' on mic. I will say The Rock was/is if anything exceptional in terms of mic work. But to me, Angle on mic is distinctly average, especially compared to people like Triple H, CM Punk, Randy Orton, HBK, Edge and the other names I mentioned in the other post. Hell even Ken Anderson is much better on mic than Angle is, there's another name who is great on mic. Angle just doesn't deliver as well as these guys do on the mic. Especially in my honest opinion. And I'm not knocking Angle, I respect the guy and he's highly entertaining but I stand by my assertion which I feel is absolutely true and not meaning any offence to anyone in this thread, but if you can tell me with a straight face that Angle is as good on mic as any of these people then you are quite clearly crazy. Or you are watching different wrestling than I am.

In addition, what you say in the quote there wasn't what either of us was actually saying.....you're trying to put words in my mouth and twist the facts, I never said Angle wasn't better than a vast majority of the people working today and I never said he wasn't great. What I did say was that he isn't as good on the mic as the wrestlers who are great on the mic. And I hardly think that covers 1% of all workers lol.

[Fantabulous]

... but if you can tell me with a straight face that Angle is as good on mic as any of these people then you are quite clearly crazy. Or you are watching different wrestling than I am.
Maybe he just has a different opinion. If you're not trolling just to get a reaction, then read those lines again to see why people around here don't like you.

[PeterHilton]

Okay me and you clearly have differing opinions on what constitutes being 'great' on mic. I will say The Rock was/is if anything exceptional in terms of mic work. But to me, Angle on mic is distinctly average, especially compared to people like Triple H, CM Punk, Randy Orton, HBK, Edge and the other names I mentioned in the other post. Hell even Ken Anderson is much better on mic than Angle is, there's another name who is great on mic. Angle just doesn't deliver as well as these guys do on the mic. Especially in my honest opinion. And I'm not knocking Angle, I respect the guy and he's highly entertaining but I stand by my assertion which I feel is absolutely true and not meaning any offence to anyone in this thread, but if you can tell me with a straight face that Angle is as good on mic as any of these people then you are quite clearly crazy. Or you are watching different wrestling than I am.

I'd say Angle is better than Orton and Trips (I can't honestly remember the last time I enjoyed or even remembered a Triple H promo) and is as good as Edge.

Agree to disagree, but I think you'd have hard time finding a majority of people who would say Orton and/or Triple H are definitively better than Kurt Angle.

[PeterHilton]

In addition, what you say in the quote there wasn't what either of us was actually saying.....you're trying to put words in my mouth and twist the facts, I never said Angle wasn't better than a vast majority of the people working today and I never said he wasn't great. What I did say was that he isn't as good on the mic as the wrestlers who are great on the mic. And I hardly think that covers 1% of all workers lol.

Semantics. 'Not that great' to most people means 'average' or just above average.

To me, that's not Kurt.

That is - however - AJ Styles.

[lazorbeak]

See, a "fact" would be something like "Kurt Angle won the Wrestling Observer Award for best interviews in 2002, an honor he shares with The Rock (1999-2000), Steve Austin (1996-1998), and Chris Jericho (2003, 2008-2009)." While it might be an opinion (specifically an inference) to say that many people consider Angle to be an elite talker, because he won an award that other elite talkers have won, it's an opinion supported by actual fact.

[thommohawk]

Maybe he just has a different opinion. If you're not trolling just to get a reaction, then read those lines again to see why people around here don't like you.

Dude I'm not even up to 30 posts in 4 years how the hell am I disliked so already lol. By the way, I don't care. I can troll with the best of them and be the biggest a$$hole when I want to be, but honestly that's not what I'm like...which only proves how wrong you are as I'm really not one of these people that goes to forums to troll and cause trouble. Yet I'm often around when it happens. Tight communities. Politics. Straight talking opinion (me). Do the math. Go figure. That's why I'm disliked here....and that's why a lot of you people disagree with me, not because you think I'm wrong, which I'm obviously not, but because you don't like me for whatever reason. In which case....you people are not a very tolerant bunch. I mean my god I'm not even up to 30 posts yet and you pre judge me as if you've know me. All based on opinion and the things I've said in the past which by the way for the record you had coming because I don't go looking to start crap. Always the same names I notice too, funny that.

I don't know why I'm even bothering stating my point of view or even arguing my case as reality proves on a weekly basis that I'm correct. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Instead you clutch to any straw you can to discredit a true statement simply because you dislike the person that said it. LOL. That's just sad....

[PeterHilton]

Dude I'm not even up to 30 posts in 4 years how the hell am I disliked so already lol.

Posts in the Dog Pound don't count. So your number is probably MUCH higher.

Yet I'm often around when it happens. Tight communities. Politics. Straight talking opinion (me). Do the math. Go figure. That's why I'm disliked here....and that's why a lot of you people disagree with me, not because you think I'm wrong, which I'm obviously not, but because you don't like me for whatever reason. In which case....you people are not a very tolerant bunch. I mean my god I'm not even up to 30 posts yet and you pre judge me as if you've know me. All based on opinion and the things I've said in the past which by the way for the record you had coming because I don't go looking to start crap.

THIS is why people don't like you. You speak as if your opinion is the only one that counts and you never admit when you're 'wrong' even if what you say is factually untrue.

[Fantabulous]

Posts in the Dog Pound don't count. So your number is probably MUCH higher.

THIS is why people don't like you. You speak as if your opinion is the only one that counts and you never admit when you're 'wrong' even if what you say is factually untrue.
I see why you speak of him in such reverence.

[thommohawk]

Posts in the Dog Pound don't count. So your number is probably MUCH higher.



THIS is why people don't like you. You speak as if your opinion is the only one that counts and you never admit when you're 'wrong' even if what you say is factually untrue.

Based on my interactions with you I call pot, kettle, black again.

I don't deny that I say stupid things and I don't help my case sometimes but neither do you guys. Honestly I've only just started posting semi regularly here and already you guys are up my ass trying to shoot me down in flames because I have an attitude or whatever....see my problem is I think you're full of crap sometimes....but honestly, the truth is despite the things I sometimes say you really do have me down wrong. Not that you care.

Also, you say I act like my opinion is the only one that counts ? Do you not do that when you feel you're 100% correct and someone else tries to counter that with something you feel is honestly 100% crap ? If I'm the only one then I'll hold my hands up and claim imperfection....

[PeterHilton]

I don't know why I'm even bothering stating my point of view or even arguing my case as reality proves on a weekly basis that I'm correct. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Instead you clutch to any straw you can to discredit a true statement simply because you dislike the person that said it. LOL. That's just sad....

Nice. Another epic 'promo' by thommohawk. :rolleyes:

I like how you never bothered addressing the 'straw' that lazorbeak brought up.

You have every right to your opinion, but whenever anyone challenges it, this BS starts where you just lose your sh*t and turn it into a flame war.

You don't think Kurt Angle s that great as a promo. Fine. But just because YOU think so doesn't make it a fact. Get over yourself.

[PeterHilton]

Also, you say I act like my opinion is the only one that counts ? Do you not do that when you feel you're 100% correct and someone else tries to counter that with something you feel is honestly 100% crap ? If I'm the only one then I'll hold my hands up and claim imperfection....

Maybe. But I try not to state it as if the other guys is a complete a-hole for disagreeing with me.

"why am I even bothering stating my point of view or even arguing my case as reality proves on a weekly basis that I'm correct. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it."

Why are you cutting a promo???? Why? You have an opinion and it's worth being discussed. Fantabulous even gave some merit to your opinion. BUt as soon as I said I didn't agree with the way you stated it or that I didn't think he was worse than Triple H we get to hear that.

C'mon....it's an opinion based discussion about wrestling.

Calm down.

[Fantabulous]

We seem to have long established that thommohawk gimmicks it up for yucks or whatever so why not just ignore him completely?

[thommohawk]

Nice. Another epic 'promo' by thommohawk. :rolleyes:

I like how you never bothered addressing the 'straw' that lazorbeak brought up.

You have every right to your opinion, but whenever anyone challenges it, this BS starts where you just lose your sh*t and turn it into a flame war.

You don't think Kurt Angle s that great as a promo. Fine. But just because YOU think so doesn't make it a fact. Get over yourself.

Oh here we go, if you're going to play that game then I notice how you ignored my post above too....you do realize that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I'm trying with you people but at this point I might as well tell you people to go **** yourselves because you're nothing more than *******s yourselves. Because let's face it I'm not tolerated here because you guys are elitist pricks. End of story.

[PeterHilton]

We seem to have long established that thommohawk gimmicks it up for yucks or whatever so why not just ignore him completely?

slow day at the office??? :p

[lazorbeak]

Maybe. But I try not to state it as if the other guys is a complete a-hole for disagreeing with me.

"why am I even bothering stating my point of view or even arguing my case as reality proves on a weekly basis that I'm correct. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it."

Why are you cutting a promo???? Why? You have an opinion and it's worth being discussed. Fantabulous even gave some merit to your opinion. BUt as soon as I said I didn't agree with the way you stated it or that I didn't think he was worse than Triple H we get to hear that.

C'mon....it's an opinion based discussion about wrestling.

Calm down.

PETE... HILTON... [heavy breathing]

WHEN I LOOK UPON THE SPIRITS AND HEAR THE VOICES CALL OUT TO ME, YOU WILL KNOW THAT YOUR END IS NEAR! [turns back to camera]

[PeterHilton]

Because let's face it I'm not tolerated here because you guys are elitist pricks. End of story.

If you honestly want to post here without being harassed then you need to stop posting as if your opinion is the only one that matters, or at leat express it differently

I like talking wrestling on these boards specifically because we have less people who do that to each other. You're acting like this is 411mania.com and you don't have to. No one was rude to you. No one discounted your opinion.

I disagree with you. That's it. That doesn't mean I think you're a bad poster or not worth talking to or whatever. But the way you react kinda does.

[PeterHilton]

PETE... HILTON... [heavy breathing]

WHEN I LOOK UPON THE SPIRITS AND HEAR THE VOICES CALL OUT TO ME, YOU WILL KNOW THAT YOUR END IS NEAR! [turns back to camera]

:D:D:D

always the jokester

[thommohawk]

Like I said people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones....I have an attitude towards you, you have an attitude towards me. I don't think you're an a-hole for your opinion against mine, it was just a wrestling discussion, and on that basis I strongly disagree with the things you've said to me thus far at least. And vice versa. And that's fine. I do however think you're an a-hole for the things you've said to me, and the same vice versa. Yet here we are at pistols drawn and the 'im not listening' point where it's like talking to a brick wall on all sides. For example, I will bet you that if I'd been more tactful in my posts rather than forthright you wouldn't have disagreed as much as you currently are disagreeing with me. It's like you're hunting for any shred to discredit my statements just because you don't like me or the things I've said. How childish is that....admit it, you're at the point now where you're jerking me around just to be a-holes and you're the ones trolling me. If you're not I'd hate to see you if you were....

I won't deny that I make an ass out of myself and say stupid things, this is the internet. I also don't deny that I attract drama like nobody's business even though I honestly don't go looking for it, again this is the internet. But I do feel that we're on the wrong foot with each other though it's probably too little too late.

[BHK1978]

In the late 80s early 90s WWF had Hulk Hogan as the face of the company. In the early 90s WCW had Sting. Who is TNA's? I think AJ Styles.

TNA needs to realize that AJ Styles is the face of their company and they need to finally build him that way. Don't have him floundering around a secondary title. He needs to be towards the top of the card on a regular basis. He is a former World Champion and should be treated and respected as one.

I agree they should bulild on AJ. I have never enjoyed him when he was a heel. I thought the Prince AJ thing he was doing a couple of years ago was going to kill his career much like the Red Rooster thing did to Terry Taylor. He was able to survive that but yeah he stinks as a heel.

Beer Money are better as babyfaces. I was so annoyed when they turned heel back in January. It was the first step in me losing interest in Hogan's regime.

I am blah about Beer Money being faces or heels. I like them as wrestlers but as personalities neither stands out. I actually liked Robert Roode better when he was a singles wrestler and a heel.

@ thommohawk: You are just dealing with the biggest trolls on the site in Peter and Lazorbeak. If you want just put them on ignore.

[lazorbeak]

@ thommohawk: You are just dealing with the biggest trolls on the site in Peter and Lazorbeak. If you want just put them on ignore.

Are you joking? Not only did I not instigate anything, all I did was present a fact and cut a promo on Hilton after he said something about cutting a promo. Seriously have I ever said anything this rude about you, ever? If I have some beef with you that I just don't remember, I certainly apologize, but I have no idea what I've done that's justified that reaction in the least.

[BHK1978]

Edited because this has no place in the thread and I apologize to the other posters for it.

[Derek B]

I'm tired of the bickering that goes on here. In my capacity as a forum mod, it stops now or I start handing out warnings and/or temporary bans to people.

No more insults, no more flames, no more taunts, no more petty bickering and no more violation of board policy.

If you feel like you might break any of these rules, then don't post in this thread for at least the next few days as I'll be lurking around to see constructive thoughts, valid opinions and people presenting arguments instead of having them.

And if you don't like that, then feel free to PM me your thoughts and we can discuss matters privately. I'm tired of the petty arguments between people who should know better, don't make me ban anyone because I don't like doing it.

[lazorbeak]

Edited to avoid more off-topic stuff

[thommohawk]

Okay I would like to get a show of hands on this, going back to my original points, just to see what the majority feel on this one....and to see if I'm the only one that sees it this way - overzealous hating of TNA product and it not as bad as it's made out to be ? Mr Anderson evoking stylistically of The Rock slightly in a good way ? Kurt Angle being decent-good on mic but not great like the HBK's, Rock's and Jericho's of this world ? To me all of this is obvious based on my open minded observations of the wrestling I've watched, obviously my stating this is an opinion in itself but just wonder if everyone else sees this ? Or if lazorbeak and the other guy are correct in their opinion or statement in that it is just me ?

Not trying to cause trouble or instigate a thing, I am legitimately curious as to if the majority of wrestling fans are seeing what I see ? On the one hand I'm like probably not, but on the other hand I'm of the opinion of how can one miss it and is it not obvious ? Because I scratch my head sometimes at how people miss it. Legit post. I hope people understand where I'm coming from....

[PeterHilton]

Okay I would like to get a show of hands on this, going back to my original points, just to see what the majority feel on this one....and to see if I'm the only one that sees it this way - overzealous hating of TNA product and it not as bad as it's made out to be ? Mr Anderson evoking stylistically of The Rock slightly in a good way ? Kurt Angle being decent-good on mic but not great like the HBK's, Rock's and Jericho's of this world ? To me all of this is obvious based on my open minded observations of the wrestling I've watched, obviously my stating this is an opinion in itself but just wonder if everyone else sees this ? Or if lazorbeak and the other guy are correct in their opinion or statement in that it is just me ?



--TNA...whether or not it's fair is a matter of perspective. I think they shoot themselves in the foot more often than not. I also think net fans in general are fairly negative.

If you're referring to that first conversation specifically, go back and read it. It was your reaction and the way you put your opinion as fact that caused people to criticize.

But the whole 'TNA gets hamered unfairly' can be true at time.

--Anderson/Rock comparisons are valid.

--you keep changing the way you state that so it's hard to really comment but : I don't think Angle is one of the best promos ever, but I think he's better than what you gave him credit for.

[lazorbeak]

Okay I would like to get a show of hands on this, going back to my original points, just to see what the majority feel on this one....and to see if I'm the only one that sees it this way - overzealous hating of TNA product and it not as bad as it's made out to be ? Mr Anderson evoking stylistically of The Rock slightly in a good way ? Kurt Angle being decent-good on mic but not great like the HBK's, Rock's and Jericho's of this world ? To me all of this is obvious based on my open minded observations of the wrestling I've watched, obviously my stating this is an opinion in itself but just wonder if everyone else sees this ? Or if lazorbeak and the other guy are correct in their opinion or statement in that it is just me ?

Not trying to cause trouble or instigate a thing, I am legitimately curious as to if the majority of wrestling fans are seeing what I see ? On the one hand I'm like probably not, but on the other hand I'm of the opinion of how can one miss it and is it not obvious ? Because I scratch my head sometimes at how people miss it. Legit post. I hope people understand where I'm coming from....

I didn't say you were wrong, I said there was evidence that Angle was very good on the mic: namely, that in 2002 he won an award for "best talker" that has gone to Chris Jericho, The Rock, and Steve Austin, three of the best talkers in the past 20 years.

[Derek B]

Okay I would like to get a show of hands on this, going back to my original points, just to see what the majority feel on this one....and to see if I'm the only one that sees it this way - overzealous hating of TNA product and it not as bad as it's made out to be ? Mr Anderson evoking stylistically of The Rock slightly in a good way ? Kurt Angle being decent-good on mic but not great like the HBK's, Rock's and Jericho's of this world ? To me all of this is obvious based on my open minded observations of the wrestling I've watched, obviously my stating this is an opinion in itself but just wonder if everyone else sees this ? Or if lazorbeak and the other guy are correct in their opinion or statement in that it is just me ?

Not trying to cause trouble or instigate a thing, I am legitimately curious as to if the majority of wrestling fans are seeing what I see ? On the one hand I'm like probably not, but on the other hand I'm of the opinion of how can one miss it and is it not obvious ? Because I scratch my head sometimes at how people miss it. Legit post. I hope people understand where I'm coming from....

I call posts like these a "reality check"... where I find out if something I think is true, actually is. :)

TNA's product is generally good, but can range anywhere between awesome (Flair/Lethal promos, Angle/Hardy or Angle/AJ matches) to terrible (where to begin....) on a weekly basis. Fans will always have opinions but it's fairly clear that people enjoy things more than they say they do otherwise they would stop watching. It's that simple. Personally, I watch TNA every week and most weeks I'm happy with what I've watched.

Mr Anderson is one of my favourite of the newer generation of wrestlersm, mostly because he reminds me of the fun of the Attitude era. I do hate his finisher though... just doesn't click for me the way a finishing move should, doesn't make me pop and he has better moves in his arsenal. I remember hearing that your finisher should be your best move, and it isn't his.

Kurt Angle isn't in the top 10 talkers of all time in pro-wrestling... but only 10 people can be. His character has evolved, become more understated instead of the awesomeness it was at it's peak in the WWE but Angle remains one of the better talkers around. In TEW terms he's probably around a low 80s score for mic work, which is still very, very good without being one of the greatest of all time.

Opinions are always tough to argue as different people like different things. Everyone should remember that arguing about opinions is like a verbal debate on religion... no-one is going to change their mind based on what you say, no matter what the "facts" are. The sooner everyone realises this the happier everyone will be, especially as you can then move on to finding out why people like something else even if you don't like it yourself. And who knows... one day you might find out something good and appreciate things differently.

[PeterHilton]

TNA's product is generally good, but can range anywhere between awesome (Flair/Lethal promos, Angle/Hardy or Angle/AJ matches) to terrible (where to begin....) on a weekly basis. Fans will always have opinions but it's fairly clear that people enjoy things more than they say they do otherwise they would stop watching. It's that simple. Personally, I watch TNA every week and most weeks I'm happy with what I've watched.



Yeah, the Rock/Anderson comparisons are probably more true now than ever before. The fact he has the entire audience chanting 'Im an A-Hole' is verrrry reminiscent of an Attitude style promo

[thommohawk]

I didn't say you were wrong, I said there was evidence that Angle was very good on the mic: namely, that in 2002 he won an award for "best talker" that has gone to Chris Jericho, The Rock, and Steve Austin, three of the best talkers in the past 20 years.

In the interest of not stepping over the line I digress. And Angle may have won an award for his promos I don't know (you'd know better than i) but honestly some of Angle's promos in TNA have been the most real as there's been times when he's been in tears in the ring, but, have you honestly ever seen Angle have the crowd in the palm of his hand like The Rock or Jericho ? Ever seen Angle cut such an effective promo as the HBK 'lost my smile' classic ? I'm not disputing that Angle isn't a decently acceptable promo cutter (maybe even on his day can be great) but I am disputing that he's a great promo cutter....which to me it's a fact that he's not. I don't wish to be an a$$ about it but that's the way I feel.

@DerekB, not just saying this because you're a mod or anything m8, but I think you're spot on with your assessment of TNA and the iwc in general as that's exactly the way I see it. I often find that people look silly when they bash TNA at times because there are times when you watch what they said didn't make sense or whatever when it's clear that they either weren't paying attention or they purposely left crucial info out to make it look bad. Speaking of dirt sheet 'reports' when I say this.

[Fantabulous]

If I had to pick one thing about TNA that turns me off of the product when I try to give it another chance is the frenetic pace of the product and the presentation therein.

Nothing feels like it has a chance to sink in before we're cutting to something else. Within seconds of a match ending or promo being over, we're cutting TO THE BACK for something else or going to the announcers to talk about something new. But it's not just that. The matches never getting time to develop is always a problem but the production is outright migraine-inducing. The constant switching from shot to shot, angle to angle, to where you never get to take even five seconds to let a particular camera shot sink in before you're taken to the next one. How about letting us dwell on something for a while?

And while we're talking about TNA production, something that made me view them as second-rate was their lack of split-screen, where you could replay a highlight from moments ago on one side of the screen while the match was still shown live on the other. WWF/E were doing this for years and it seemed like TNA took forever to finally do this. I got so frustrating to have them replay a move that just happened while the match was still going on in the background but you couldn't see it. What took them so long to do this?

[PeterHilton]

In the interest of not stepping over the line I digress. And Angle may have won an award for his promos I don't know (you'd know better than i) but honestly some of Angle's promos in TNA have been the most real as there's been times when he's been in tears in the ring, but, have you honestly ever seen Angle have the crowd in the palm of his hand like The Rock or Jericho ? Ever seen Angle cut such an effective promo as the HBK 'lost my smile' classic ? I'm not disputing that Angle isn't a decently acceptable promo cutter (maybe even on his day can be great) but I am disputing that he's a great promo cutter....which to me it's a fact that he's not. I don't wish to be an a$$ about it but that's the way I feel.



First I'd like to say that this is a great example of stating your opinion strongly without necessarily making it sound lik you're literally thumping your chest while typing. ;)

I disagree that he's not a great promo. BUt I'm not gonna run this argument into the ground.

Also... you definitely have a point about his TNA stuff being more 'real.' I don't know what happened, but around the midway point of his WWE run he stopped being 'funny Kurt' on a regular basis and I sort of miss that.

[PeterHilton]

If I had to pick one thing about TNA that turns me off of the product when I try to give it another chance is the frenetic pace of the product and the presentation therein.



Yup. Just..yup.

They don't let storylines sink in, characters switch allegiance to fast, no one is ever a good guy or bad guy long enough to make a turn meaningful..


I think the E is moving at a snail's pace and is incrdibly predictable, but holy sh*t is TNA too much in the opposite direction

[thommohawk]

If I had to pick one thing about TNA that turns me off of the product when I try to give it another chance is the frenetic pace of the product and the presentation therein.

Nothing feels like it has a chance to sink in before we're cutting to something else. Within seconds of a match ending or promo being over, we're cutting TO THE BACK for something else or going to the announcers to talk about something new. But it's not just that. The matches never getting time to develop is always a problem but the production is outright migraine-inducing. The constant switching from shot to shot, angle to angle, to where you never get to take even five seconds to let a particular camera shot sink in before you're taken to the next one. How about letting us dwell on something for a while?

Horses for courses but honestly this is precisely what I love about TNA is it's fast and frenetic BAM,BAM,BAM don't stop for anything if it can't keep up presentational approach....it kind of reminds me about what I liked about '24' even though that show had nothing to do with wrestling obviously lol. About the camera angles honestly I never noticed as I was too busy watching the match in all honesty. Even so I don't think constant switching is a bad thing and you don't notice it if you don't try to because every program does it constantly anyways. The part about matches not given enough time I'd disagree with in that I feel the matches are longer than WWE matches or for the most part much more entertaining if they are quicker.

Maybe I've simply found my own personal wrestling Nirvana in TNA but for me ROH don't have the name wrestlers that they used to (or is it those guys are now famous?) and for me WWE has been flatout laborous and drop dead boring for years. I grew up as a WWE fanboy but honestly around 3 years ago I lost all interest - what killed it for me was I hadn't watched all year and I tuned in to consecutive Wrestlemania's only to find that quite literally nothing had changed all year....that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me with the E.

First I'd like to say that this is a great example of stating your opinion strongly without necessarily making it sound lik you're literally thumping your chest while typing. ;)

Lol, like I said you had me down wrong. ;)

[Derek B]

TNA's pacing is something that has often bothered me, though I try not to think about it too much. One thing that has always bothered me about wrestling is that almost everything seems to happen on camera, except for big surprises... nothing seems to happen backstage that we don't see, so it's like everything is happening in a bubble.

If there was some actual feeling that people had a life outside of wrestling then things would be better, but it's rare that I get that feeling at all on the TV shows. There should be constant reminders throughout the shows that the roster is always on the road, always travelling, that they might never get to see each other apart from at Impact... that when everyone gathers in one place everyone is jostling for position, trying to get things done, wanting matches, pushing for time... that only some people can make it on to Impact and that everyone we don't see is on Xplosion, vying for the chance to make an Impact. That every week, dozens of things are happening backstage that we never get to see or hear about, instead of getting to see and hear apparantly everything that goes on.

Sometimes jumping from one thing to another is fine, but that needs to be delivered within a framework that actually pushes that it NEEDS to be done because so much is going on. I know I'm kinda rambling a bit, but if I were to try and sum it up in a sentence it would be like...

"I feel like I'm being pushed along a railway line... there's only one path, but I wish it felt like I was driving along a road where I could take any turn I want and there would be something there."

That probably makes no sense... but it's my last thought for the night in here. And I agree that WWE feels too slow, but that's a lot of other thoughts wrapped together for another day entirely.

[PeterHilton]

Maybe I've simply found my own personal wrestling Nirvana in TNA but for me ROH don't have the name wrestlers that they used to (or is it those guys are now famous?) and for me WWE has been flatout laborous and drop dead boring for years. I grew up as a WWE fanboy but honestly around 3 years ago I lost all interest - what killed it for me was I hadn't watched all year and I tuned in to consecutive Wrestlemania's only to find that quite literally nothing had changed all year....that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me with the E.

100000% agree with this. I think that's why the Nexus hit so big..it was the first 'surprise' angle theyd done in years

[thommohawk]

100000% agree with this. I think that's why the Nexus hit so big..it was the first 'surprise' angle theyd done in years

See now we're communicating lol ;)

Actually to be honest I'm a noob when it comes to anything remotely recent when it comes to WWE. I've heard of the Nexus obviously, but because I don't watch anymore I've missed basically everything and only kept up online. The last time I watched the E for any length of time was the Jan 4 flippage. Before that was WM Taker vs Michaels II (great but not as awesome as the 1st) which to give props where it's due - when WWE put on an epic of their own, they're a class apart and always have been!

The last I heard about WWE online really was this whole Juan Cena thing and I Lol'd. Now someone called Del Rio has won the Rumble and he's supposed to be good, but is he another Shaemus poo poo ? I also missed the entirety of CM Punk's stint on the RAW commentary booth, apparently it was epic which I can believe because I know how great Punk is on the mic with his line delivery and innate charisma. Sorry, lol. But yeah....in a nutshell for all TNA's foul ups and faults over recent years they've still provided me with way more good entertainment than WWE have done in the last 10 years in true honesty. Where I was bored with WWE watching out of loyalty and lack of knowledge of a visible choice, when I turned to TNA I was enthralled consistently and for me was honestly like 'this is where it's at'. Quality wrestling, breakneck pacing, more catered to adults than children, established talent of old, name talent of the indies, completely new talent I'd never heard of until then (rob roode) and of course AJ blowing me away. ;)

Joe vs AJ vs Daniels II btw just wow!! Hands down the best match I've seen since the Bret Hart/HBK WM epic. Not too distant second though being HBK vs Taker first one - HBK kicking out of the tombstone WM moment personified ZOMG!!!

[lazorbeak]

TNA's pacing is something that has often bothered me, though I try not to think about it too much. One thing that has always bothered me about wrestling is that almost everything seems to happen on camera, except for big surprises... nothing seems to happen backstage that we don't see, so it's like everything is happening in a bubble.

If there was some actual feeling that people had a life outside of wrestling then things would be better, but it's rare that I get that feeling at all on the TV shows. There should be constant reminders throughout the shows that the roster is always on the road, always travelling, that they might never get to see each other apart from at Impact... that when everyone gathers in one place everyone is jostling for position, trying to get things done, wanting matches, pushing for time... that only some people can make it on to Impact and that everyone we don't see is on Xplosion, vying for the chance to make an Impact. That every week, dozens of things are happening backstage that we never get to see or hear about, instead of getting to see and hear apparantly everything that goes on.

Sometimes jumping from one thing to another is fine, but that needs to be delivered within a framework that actually pushes that it NEEDS to be done because so much is going on. I know I'm kinda rambling a bit, but if I were to try and sum it up in a sentence it would be like...

"I feel like I'm being pushed along a railway line... there's only one path, but I wish it felt like I was driving along a road where I could take any turn I want and there would be something there."

That probably makes no sense... but it's my last thought for the night in here. And I agree that WWE feels too slow, but that's a lot of other thoughts wrapped together for another day entirely.

This is an interesting thought, it reminds me of Jim Ross' old sit-down interviews in the early Attitude era and before, where he'd really get into why a character acted the way he did, and what motivated him, etc. I always thought it made the characters seem more relateable because here they'd sit down and basically be a toned down but in-character version of themselves, and could explain why they did what they did, and it was just the character explaining their lives, not seeing them shopping for groceries in costume or anything ridiculous.

I'd love to see somebody do a sit-down interview with Hogan and have him in-character talk about his fear and insecurities, his legacy, how he thinks he will be remembered for his time in TNA, that sort of thing. Then his on-screen persona can be like "brother I didn't mean any of that, you took it out of context!" I mean this is the same tactic that got Vince McMahon over at the #1 heel in the industry when he sat down and talked trash about a guy that was already out the door, in part because it felt so real.

[jbergey_2005]

I mean this is the same tactic that got Vince McMahon over at the #1 heel in the industry when he sat down and talked trash about a guy that was already out the door, in part because it felt so real.

Bingo!

[Slagaholic]

Impact drew a 1.31 rating. They must be doing something right.

[Basmat01]

Impact drew a 1.31 rating. They must be doing something right.

Matt thinks it was because of him

Gerwick.net
Matt Hardy on the latest TNA Impact ratings via Twitter: Hulkster & Jeff brought me in & the ratings keep growin-Coincidence?I think not! FACT! .. Dixie, u can thank ME & Jeff 4 the ratings jump-just saying.

[Gabbo]

Matt is his own biggest mark.

[thommohawk]

Surely that's a deliberate heel at work and not his own thinking. That's what it looks like. If not then Matt Hardy is an idiot and extremely delusional.

As for the 1.31 rating, I believe that's two things....1 is people wanting to see the botch job regarding Nash/Booker....but mainly I think it's the fact that TNA are doing a better job of booking angles to promote their major storylines in all honesty. I mean the other week when Abyss came out with his arms outstretched before crashing to the stage floor to reveal the nail board impaled in his back before Crimson came out and screamed the date of when 'they're coming' was fantastic. And of course to see the reveal itself. Which didn't disappoint.

[Blackman]

Angle cut some great promo's in the past. Sure, most of its success was because it was awesomely written. But still... His mic skills are decent enough, surely, but of course he's no Jericho or Rock. That much is obvious.

An I agree that WWE is flat out predictable in a boring way. TNA however is showing me so much wrongness, however, that I just can't bear to watch. Especially if you think what great company it could've become.

[thommohawk]

Angle cut some great promo's in the past. Sure, most of its success was because it was awesomely written. But still... His mic skills are decent enough, surely, but of course he's no Jericho or Rock. That much is obvious.

An I agree that WWE is flat out predictable in a boring way. TNA however is showing me so much wrongness, however, that I just can't bear to watch. Especially if you think what great company it could've become.

I hope you don't think I'm a raging TNA fanboy for saying this, because I've noticed one or two things myself where I've genuinely been like 'ok why did they show that then not promote it as if it never happened what was the point' case in point was the Samoa Joe abduction angle which they showed but literally never followed up on.....in any case you say there's so much wrong with TNA that you can't stand to watch it - would you care to say specifically what that is ? Because to me when I see anybody give specifics it's almost always either inaccurate or extremely thin in all honesty. Otherwise if it's neither of these things I tend to agree completely.

I'd also follow that and say that there's things TNA do wrong for sure, and often times they are their own worst enemy....and yes sometimes you do get the impression that the writers couldn't find their ass with both hands in a well lit room - though I'd say the same for Vince McMahon by and large given the last 5 years of WWE....in any case I'd also say that there's a lot that TNA do right with as well. Which is another thing I tend to notice, people are quick to list TNA in an all encompassing negative bubble but they never mention specifics unless it's Hogan nor any of the positives that TNA do have....at least not from what I've seen.

You're probably seeing a different TNA than I am.....but to me when I watch TNA I see name value talent (Angle, Flair, Hogan, Bischoff, RVD, Anderson, Hardy) and I see a more adult oriented show with breakneck pacing and quality wrestling with the X Division to a pretty good women's division, an excellent tag team division with MCMG & Beer Money two of the best tag teams in the world imo...there's also AJ Styles who is a star attraction....not to mention Velvet Sky who is also a star attraction for a different reason. I love her lol, how gorgeous is she ?! Anyway yeah I see lots of positives with TNA, in fact more positives than negatives. What annoys me about TNA the most isn't the presentation or the writing, it's the crowd constantly heckling the guys when they try to cut a promo it's like jesus the seats are not facing you for a reason!

[hellboy2]

about the Knockout division my mate was watching some re-runs and i think she was called Hamada don't know who it was against but it was bloody brilliant

i don't watch TNA much anymore but what i have seen i've really enjoyed, it does seem a little fast paced but i enjoy that, stopped watching with the Kurt Angle/Matt Morgan match at the PPV i can't remember awesome match, like what i see but sadly don't get much time to watch it these days

[haloed]

I just think its funny when people say TNA sucks, they aren't what they are supposed to be, that they're supposed to be some great company. But what exactly are they supposed to be? What should they be doing?

I'm not saying they are great, but I enjoy TNA and I'm also in the camp that they should slow things down a tad and give a bit more time to matches.

[thommohawk]

I've been watching TNA on and off for years now, mostly on, and 90% of what I've seen I've enjoyed. I like TNA as a company, their philosophy, certainly their talent - and as I've stated I like their fast pacing. BUT, there are things I don't like....I don't like the Impact Zone or the attitude of the people in it....I can forgive TNA for rehashing old storylines because honestly what is there in wrestling that hasn't been done already ?? If you can come up with a solid answer on the spot then apply for creative position immediately, but what I don't like is when TNA try to be WWE or WCW when clearly they don't have the budget, writers or the roster for it. Given the budget, talents and forces at TNA's disposal especially currently they should be 70% quality wrestling 30% pure sports entertainment. They clearly have their own ideas or identity on the presentational front and that's cool no need to change there imo. Just the ratios.

That's when TNA will push on I think once they carve their own identity. Until then they're still great to watch in my opinion but at the same time they're still underpinning themselves.

It'll be interesting to see where this Fortune/Immortal/Dixie/Hogan/TNA storyline goes as hopefully TNA will change direction a bit at the end of it. At least AJ is a face again so that's something positive, which also doesn't help a company when they're pushing someone who doesn't work in that capacity. AJ as a heel just didn't work, doesn't work and probably never will do, like I said before he's no HBK in terms of mic skills, looks or charisma even though he's as good in the ring....so I'm glad he's face again and that TNA are deciding to incorporate a lot of the things people are saying about Hogan/Bischoff regime into the storylines and AJ/Fortune/TNA are the mouthpiece of it. So that's really cool.

I just can't help but wonder what Paul Heyman could have done with the talent that TNA has....such a shame TNA didn't want to give him the license he required and it's a shame Heyman's heart isn't in wrestling anymore. I will say this I firmly believe Paul Heyman gets way too much credit for his creativity as apparently a lot of the ECW hit gimmicks were the wrestler's doing not Paul Heyman, but I will say Heyman does have an eye for talent but he also knows how to market that talent and differentiate.

[sabataged]

I just read TNA is going to start streaming their PPV's live on their ON Demand service. I looked into it and found that its only 2.95 a month. Does anyone have this? And how good is it? For only2.95 a month and the ability to watch IMpact/PPVs when I choose, I may be interested in giving it a shot.

[The Bus]

How quickly will the new episodes be up there? This sounds interesting as the price is reasonable.

[thommohawk]

I imagine there'll be a delay on it....I doubt that for $3 you'll be able to watch PPV's and Impact online as they happen. I could be wrong though but I'd seriously doubt it. Not at that price.

[juggaloninjalee]

I would pay $2.95 a month to watch TNA whenever I want. That would be cool.

[steesh07]

The thing with TNA, for me anyway is that they tend to merge allot of feuds in on each other, like Angle vs Jarrett is among Immortal vs. Fortune now. Same with RVD vs Matt Hardy, Mr A. vs Jeff Hardy but in my opinion it just turns into a cluster****. When they could all have different feuds and make sense, rather than throwing them all in a pot and see how it comes out. They started doing it with the Bully Ray and Devon feud by mixing it with Samoa Joe and Dinero's.
It just turns me off on the product, but I still watch it because of the talent roster solely.

[jwt13]

I just think its funny when people say TNA sucks, they aren't what they are supposed to be, that they're supposed to be some great company. But what exactly are they supposed to be? What should they be doing?

I'm not saying they are great, but I enjoy TNA and I'm also in the camp that they should slow things down a tad and give a bit more time to matches.

Yea if you look on wrestlecrap much of the first few years are on wrestlecrap so what could have been is much much more worse than whats going on now

[jhd1]

I just read TNA is going to start streaming their PPV's live on their ON Demand service. I looked into it and found that its only 2.95 a month. Does anyone have this? And how good is it? For only2.95 a month and the ability to watch IMpact/PPVs when I choose, I may be interested in giving it a shot.

I suspect you then have to pay again for the PPVs. I imagine iMPACT! would be free. This is all a guess though, so I may be wrong.

[MichiganHero]

After having watched TNA last night I have some notes.

1) Is it just me or does the whole Jeff Jarrett/Karen Angle angle seem kind of...disrespectful. I mean for Karen to turn around and say her favourite photo is one of Kurt getting El Kabong'd on TV - whilst fictional - is gonna have to hurt Kurt a little.

2) WOOOOOOOOO Scott Steiner baby. I think he stroked his beard at least ten times.

3) Taped Fist match = possible lead up to some sort of gimmick match for Madison/Mickie.

4) Crimson looks odd.

[steesh07]

After having watched TNA last night I have some notes.

1) Is it just me or does the whole Jeff Jarrett/Karen Angle angle seem kind of...disrespectful. I mean for Karen to turn around and say her favourite photo is one of Kurt getting El Kabong'd on TV - whilst fictional - is gonna have to hurt Kurt a little.

3) Taped Fist match = possible lead up to some sort of gimmick match for Madison/Mickie.

4) Crimson looks odd.

1) It's an odd storyline, it's clearly over the top but some of it just doesn't sit well with me as a viewer.

3) Probably leading to a cage match between the two at Lockdown.

4) Looks like a jobber in a main event spot to me.

[thommohawk]

After having watched TNA last night I have some notes.

1) Is it just me or does the whole Jeff Jarrett/Karen Angle angle seem kind of...disrespectful. I mean for Karen to turn around and say her favourite photo is one of Kurt getting El Kabong'd on TV - whilst fictional - is gonna have to hurt Kurt a little.

2) WOOOOOOOOO Scott Steiner baby. I think he stroked his beard at least ten times.

3) Taped Fist match = possible lead up to some sort of gimmick match for Madison/Mickie.

4) Crimson looks odd.


1) I know this angle isn't to everyone's taste for obvious reasons and I can't say I'm all that hot on the angle either but for me it's purely for entertainment reasons as I personally have a hard time believing that they'd agree to this storyline if A) it wasn't faked and B) the distinction between real and fake wasn't abuntantly clear to both performers and their family, meaning if it made them or especially their kids uncomfortable I don't think as parents they'd have went with it. I just don't think it's a particularly hot or entertaining storyline. Personal opinion.

2) Steiner. He's okay, has his good and bad days.

3) Unless it involves TBP and Winter then I have to be honest, don't really care.

4) Agreed. Can be a main event talent for TNA though if they handle him correctly.

[Teh_Showtime]

Matt thinks it was because of him

Gerwick.net
Matt Hardy on the latest TNA Impact ratings via Twitter: Hulkster & Jeff brought me in & the ratings keep growin-Coincidence?I think not! FACT! .. Dixie, u can thank ME & Jeff 4 the ratings jump-just saying.

wow

I have lost all respect for the Hardy brothers. These guys are super dbags just full of themselves. Case and point would be Jeff's shoot on CM Punk.

Their in ring work has taken a step back, and they are too full of themselves.

[Chikbot]

the hardys honestly are becoming very hall and nash-like as of lately..with Matt being Nash and Jeff being Hall

[tristram]

I must admit, I'm a little behind what's happening with Sting and the WWE, but if it turns out that he's not going there and he is staying with TNA, I see lightbulbs flashing everywhere in my mind with potential stories to take advantage of that.

[jwt13]

The Double J/Angle fued reminds me of the Mysterio/Guerrero feud in WWE around 05/06

[juggaloninjalee]

The Double J/Angle fued reminds me of the Mysterio/Guerrero feud in WWE around 05/06

How so? It's not reminding me of that really but I have never really watched Smackdown very much so maybe my memory is just foggy.

[jwt13]

How so? It's not reminding me of that really but I have never really watched Smackdown very much so maybe my memory is just foggy.

Just the personal feel of things imo but it may just be me, I like it though

[Slagaholic]

Chelsea was fired :(

[juggaloninjalee]

I must admit, I'm a little behind what's happening with Sting and the WWE, but if it turns out that he's not going there and he is staying with TNA, I see lightbulbs flashing everywhere in my mind with potential stories to take advantage of that.

What are some of your ideas on how TNA can take advantage of this?

[Wrestling Century]

So is Desmond Wolfe just completely done with wrestling? I hope not, as he could've become a british version of Kurt Angle. :(

[TakerNGN74]

Watched Impact tonight as I was home sick and couldn't do my normal Thursday night thing but is anyone else really annoyed by the Jarrett/Angle Storyline. I mean not the storyline itself I think its fine but the whole Karen Angle thing I think is kind of disrespectul to both Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett's late Wife. You have to remember that when Jarrett was gone from TNA for a while it was because his wife had cancer and she has since passed. But does anyone think that they are no pun intended crossing the line with this storyline?

[ampulator]

Watched Impact tonight as I was home sick and couldn't do my normal Thursday night thing but is anyone else really annoyed by the Jarrett/Angle Storyline. I mean not the storyline itself I think its fine but the whole Karen Angle thing I think is kind of disrespectul to both Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett's late Wife. You have to remember that when Jarrett was gone from TNA for a while it was because his wife had cancer and she has since passed. But does anyone think that they are no pun intended crossing the line with this storyline?
Since when has good taste or going over the line stopped vince Russo? The guy out-Heyman's Heyman in terms of going over the line.

[Slagaholic]

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Jarrett was the guy booking this storyline.

[ampulator]

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Jarrett was the guy booking this storyline.
I would. Jarrett is pretty conservative.

[TakerNGN74]

Since when has good taste or going over the line stopped vince Russo? The guy out-Heyman's Heyman in terms of going over the line.

You raise a very good point there, I didn't even think about that.

[BHK1978]

For some odd reason I am really enjoying Madison Rayne. I just really like her character and I liked her interview tonight.

[thommohawk]

For some odd reason I am really enjoying Madison Rayne. I just really like her character and I liked her interview tonight.

I'd like Madison if her voice didn't go right through me every time she's on screen. Not her fault but the pitch screaming doesn't help any. At the moment personally I'm rather high up on the TBP/Winter storyline, if only because I love the trio of Velvet, Angelina and Winter (best breakout female character?) - especially Velvet Sky. Who's also a screamer! ;)

On a different note it was great to see AJ back to his old self this week with his entrance. I would say if Anderson/Angle/RVD defected to Immortal and had Immortal pretty much be a stable of ex-WWE guys up against Fortune which is a stable of real TNA talent might be a good idea - but on the other hand it's not because Anderson is one of the most over babyfaces there and considering the RVD/Jeff Hardy situation wouldn't make any sense (wouldnt stop them lol) but also because it's kinda already been done in recent TNA history with the MEM/TNA Originals angle.

I wouldn't mind seeing Angle defect and turn heel again though....be a nice set up for another Angle/Joe or more specifically Angle/AJ 5 star match. I bet Angle/Joe/AJ 3 way match would be epic.

[Jaysin]

Since Against All Odds is tomorrow and I finally have my laptop back, I figured I'd post my predictions/hopes :)

Madison Rayne vs Mickie James- I'm pulling for Mickie even though Madison is my hands down favorite female wrestler out there right now. Mickie wins.

Brother Devon vs Bully Ray- Devon wins, but I don't really mind who wins. I'm not the biggest Dudley fan to begin with so I might skip this match.

Samoa Joe vs D'angelo Dinero- My Pope obsession is no secret, but I think the only way he wins is if he cheats or there's some sort of outside interference. I don't see Joe winning this one. Probably going to continue the feud until the next PPV.

Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett- Honestly, I have hopes for this match to be one of the best of the night. They have a history of having fantastic bouts, so hopefully this one follows that trend. Angle wins.

RVD vs Matt Hardy- RVD wins...I hope

Max Buck vs Jeremy Buck vs Robbie E- I'd like GenMe to stay in the tag division, so I see Robbie E winning this one.

Beer Money and Scott Steiner vs Rob Terry, Gunner, and Murphy- Beer Money and Scotty win this.

Mr Anderson vs Jeff Hardy- Anderson takes it. Don't see a point in Jeff winning it back so soon.

[jwt13]

Madison Rayne vs Mickie James- She is most well known and most talented KO in TNA right know

Brother Devon vs Bully Ray- Devon's kids turn on him

Samoa Joe vs D'angelo Dinero- Double DQ

Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett- In a solid match

RVD vs Matt Hardy- Hardy's losing that gut and looks more motivated I say give him a push.

Max Buck vs Jeremy Buck vs Robbie E- Just cause I dont know Max and Jeremy apart.

Beer Money and Scott Steiner vs Rob Terry, Gunner, and Murphy- Faces kept strong.

Mr Anderson vs Jeff Hardy- In the Russo swerve of the night Anderson turns heels allowing Hardy to win the belt.

[The-619]

Watched Impact tonight as I was home sick and couldn't do my normal Thursday night thing but is anyone else really annoyed by the Jarrett/Angle Storyline. I mean not the storyline itself I think its fine but the whole Karen Angle thing I think is kind of disrespectul to both Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett's late Wife. You have to remember that when Jarrett was gone from TNA for a while it was because his wife had cancer and she has since passed. But does anyone think that they are no pun intended crossing the line with this storyline?

I think this storyline would have been approved by both Jeff and Kurt before they started it, I don't see them just doing this and risking upsetting one of their top wrestlers in Jarrett and arguably (or not) their top wrestler in Angle.

[20LEgend]

Never done this before but I'll join in

Madison Rayne vs Mickie James
I think they might drag this out more
Brother Devon vs Bully Ray
I also see a possible turn
Samoa Joe vs D'angelo Dinero
I would like Joe to win but I don't think TNA are greatly hot on him, either way the storyline isn't finished yet
Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett
I have a little feeling they may have JJ win just to have Angle walk her down the aisle but I think that would be crap
RVD vs Matt Hardy
He can't beat him two months in a row
Max Buck or Jeremy Buck (the one with the lighter hair)vs Robbie E
Couldn't care less I find this to be a ridiculously booked match, a) they're all heels, and b) I don't like any of them so whatever c) I can't tell the Bucks apart
Beer Money and Scott Steiner vs Rob Terry, Gunner, and Murphy
Really weighted against IMMORTAL, this could be a throwaway TV match
Mr Anderson vs Jeff Hardy
How I don't know, but I think it may have something to do with him retrieving the title belt, but really I can't think of how they'll make this all that interesting, because if Hardy doesn't pull out some new stupid stunt this match won't be that great, still decent but not:eek:

[Self]

Pretty easy to tell the Bucks apart. Well... it is if you know your Hardy Boys. Max is Matt (dark hair) Jeremy is Jeff (blonde). :)

[Jaysin]

Pretty easy to tell the Bucks apart. Well... it is if you know your Hardy Boys. Max is Matt (dark hair) Jeremy is Jeff (blonde). :)

That's how I tell them apart too! :p

[20LEgend]

Pretty easy to tell the Bucks apart. Well... it is if you know your Hardy Boys. Max is Matt (dark hair) Jeremy is Jeff (blonde). :)

I thought Max may match up with M and Jeremy and Jeff but I didn't know for definant

[cappyboy]

Pretty easy to tell the Bucks apart. Well... it is if you know your Hardy Boys. Max is Matt (dark hair) Jeremy is Jeff (blonde). :)

Which is why I can't see the Bucks being anything much as long as they are in TNA. All they've been given to do is mimeograph the youth of couple stars rather than be their own men and just REMIND people of Matt and Jeff. Shame they have already been turned heel since I watched last watched regularly. I would use that as their beef and maybe have them alter their appearance to rebel against the Hardy likenesses.

[Slagaholic]

Their appearance is more akin to the 80s-early 90s tag teams than the Hardy Boyz. They just need more tassels.

[jwt13]

Their appearance is more akin to the 80s-early 90s tag teams than the Hardy Boyz.

No they look like the Hardy Boyz of 95 and on when they started jobing for WWF

[Jaysin]

No GenMe tonight :(

[Slagaholic]

No they look like the Hardy Boyz of 95 and on when they started jobing for WWF

And that look borrowed heavily from 80s-early 90s tag teams...

[20LEgend]

No GenMe tonight :(

Hope there is a good replacement, I wanna see Lethal vs. Robbie E vs. Kaz

[jwt13]

No GenMe tonight :(

were did you hear this? I haven't seen it on the site i go on

edit: Nevermind

[BHK1978]

The fact that GenMe and Robbie E. were in that match really did not make sense to me in the first place. Why have three heels in a match (I assume they are all still heels, in TNA one never knows for sure)?

They should have had GenMe and a face in the match. Yes Kaz is a face now and will need a heel to face off with but they could have thrown in a face in that match and had one of the GenMe win.

[jwt13]

I think now they should do robbie e v. kaz for the title

[20LEgend]

The fact that GenMe and Robbie E. were in that match really did not make sense to me in the first place. Why have three heels in a match (I assume they are all still heels, in TNA one never knows for sure)?

They should have had GenMe and a face in the match. Yes Kaz is a face now and will need a heel to face off with but they could have thrown in a face in that match and had one of the GenMe win.

My thoughts exactly why not stick Suicide in there in the first place, give him a decent return? He wouldn't have to win.

Also Buck has deleted his comments on twitter

[jwt13]

My thoughts exactly why not stick Suicide in there in the first place, give him a decent return? He wouldn't have to win

Well you cant blame them for trying to push Robbie which he has strangely grown on me. But I agree a face was needed but once again TNA is saved by somthing they can't handle :p

[20LEgend]

Well you cant blame them for trying to push Robbie which he has strangely grown on me. But I agree a face was needed but once again TNA is saved by somthing they can't handle :p

I don't really like Robbie but I wouldn't have One of the Bucks vs. Robbie E vs. Suicide so long as one heel two face really, but I think in X division face/heel kinda gets dissolved with some awesome spots, so maybe it wasn't so bad?

[Self]

Which is why I can't see the Bucks being anything much as long as they are in TNA. All they've been given to do is mimeograph the youth of couple stars rather than be their own men and just REMIND people of Matt and Jeff. Shame they have already been turned heel since I watched last watched regularly. I would use that as their beef and maybe have them alter their appearance to rebel against the Hardy likenesses.

If I was going the doppleganger route with the Bucks, I'd have at least put them with the Hardy Boyz. Like their sidekicks or something, who eventually step out of their shadow and developing their own personallities. Why you'd have them dress in the Attitude-Era-Hardyz style, but have them nowhere near the actual Hardy Boyz... beyond me.

In PWG, the style works. They're taunting their loyal fans with their selling out. Matt Jackson doing Matt Hardy's "Hoooo" legdrop gets awesome heat every time, and Nick Jackson is amazingly charismatic, whipping out the Jeff Jarrett strut at every opportunity. Love them.

[Jaysin]

Alright my dudes, Kaz vs Robbie E was a pretty fun match.

I LOVE Scotty Steiner.

[Purple Cowboy]

So what are some thoughts from TNA die-hards about putting the belt back on Hardy? Was there anything up with Anderson behind-the-scenes or does the whole Fortune split force them to put the belt back on Hardy so that Immortal has some gold? Would have liked to see a nice long Mr. Anderson run but where does he go from here?

[Fantabulous]

They took the belt off of Hardy because they didn't know if he was going to serve time in jail and wanted to play safe. They put the belt on Jeff because, well, I don't know why because he could still serve jail time.

And does anyone remember Isis, the 7-ft something giant of a woman who was on NXT for a week before WWE canned her when they realised how horrible she was? Well, guess who TNA want to hire?

[20LEgend]

So what are some thoughts from TNA die-hards about putting the belt back on Hardy? Was there anything up with Anderson behind-the-scenes or does the whole Fortune split force them to put the belt back on Hardy so that Immortal has some gold? Would have liked to see a nice long Mr. Anderson run but where does he go from here?

Not a 'die hard' but do watch regularly, I think it is awful and the decision really annoys me, his first PPV defense and he dropped the belt to Jeff Hardy, but I think they may want it on a heel because they have so many face contenders and other than Jeff no other heel contenders

[Self]

I don't watch TNA, but if I was booking it, I would absolutely have the belt on Hardy. He was the man in 2009. That kind of connectivity with the fans is hard to come by. As a heel... there's something there. If you got him away from Immortal and let him stand on his own I think there's a really interesting nucleus of a promotion. Anderson isn't an interesting enough persona, to me. Great challenger, but not a great champion.

I am a Hardy mark though. Even in 2011.

The court thing is an issue, but I'm not in-the-know about the details (the actual details, not the rumours) so I'm going to ignore it.

[PeterHilton]

Speaking of rumours:

- TNA World Champion Jeff Hardy returns to court this morning in Moore County, NC. He is expected to finalize his rumored plea agreement, which is related to his September 2009 arrest on various drug charges.

followed shortly by

The new TNA World Heavyweight champion, Jeff Hardy showed up for court this morning, only for his case to receive yet another continuance.

This time his attorney is to blame. James Van Camp was busy representing a client in a murder trial, which made him unavailable.

The next case is set for March 16.

So a delay in the court date, but a possible plea deal? Maybe the plea includes no jail time, which is why TNA pulled the trigger?

[Slagaholic]

And does anyone remember Isis, the 7-ft something giant of a woman who was on NXT for a week before WWE canned her when they realised how horrible she was? Well, guess who TNA want to hire?

Actually they fired her when they realized she did porn.

[Purple Cowboy]

So a delay in the court date, but a possible plea deal? Maybe the plea includes no jail time, which is why TNA pulled the trigger?

Another delay?

I would have to think you're onto something there. In my mind they can't have the title flip again so soon at Victory Road. But this is TNA, who really knows.

[Fantabulous]

Actually they fired her when they realized she did porn.
To be more specific, it was half-nude pictures that she forgot to tell them about. She is still beyond horrible as anyone who has seen her 'work' can tell you.

I don't watch TNA, but if I was booking it, I would absolutely have the belt on Hardy. He was the man in 2009.

Which was two years ago in another company. Until the whole court case is done and settled, putting the belt on Hard again only leaves TNA open to having to make another title change if things don't go right for Hardy. Crazy idea; TNA fans seem to like Anderson, so why not keep it on him for a nice long run to make him seem like a babyface worth getting behind and to make the belt mean something.

[Jaysin]

I think Jeff has a heel is one of the more interesting things in wrestling right now. His promos as a face never flowed, but now they don't sound forced and they're kinda dark. Dark promos are a total win for me.

[Slagaholic]

To be more specific, it was half-nude pictures that she forgot to tell them about. She is still beyond horrible as anyone who has seen her 'work' can tell you.

Oh there are most definitely nudes of her out there. She may be horrible in the ring but whoever hires her does do so because she can put on great matches. Not to mention she's been wrestling for what less than 5 years now? It always takes longer for big guys to not stink up the place in the ring.

[Fantabulous]

She may be horrible in the ring but whoever hires her does do so because she can put on great matches. Not to mention she's been wrestling for what less than 5 years now? It always takes longer for big guys to not stink up the place in the ring.
It's not about putting on great matches, true, but it's a good idea to at least be capable. She is far from that. If she was terrible that would be an improvement from where she is now. Whether it takes longer for big guys to not stink up the place is irrelevant. What is relevant is that there is a place to learn to not stink up the place and it isn't on prime time cable television. Putting someone that bad on your TV only makes the promotion look bad.

[PeterHilton]

It's not about putting on great matches, true, but it's a good idea to at least be capable. She is far from that. If she was terrible that would be an improvement from where she is now. Whether it takes longer for big guys to not stink up the place is irrelevant. What is relevant is that there is a place to learn to not stink up the place and it isn't on prime time cable television. Putting someone that bad on your TV only makes the promotion look bad.

While that is certainly true, it's never stopped TNA from doing it in the past. :p

[Fantabulous]

While that is certainly true, it's never stopped TNA from doing it in the past. :p

Nothing seems to stop them from doing that and worse. Over and over and over again.

[Self]

I'd hire her. She MASSIVE. Even if she can't wrestle, that's an attraction. Have her as someone's valet or something. Wrestling will always have room for some freak-show acts.

[ampulator]

I'd hire her. She MASSIVE. Even if she can't wrestle, that's an attraction. Have her as someone's valet or something. Wrestling will always have room for some freak-show acts.
I think wrestling is past "GOJIRA" acts these days. They are boring. People are into ATHLETIC "GOJIRA's" these days. If you are big you better be also be athletic ala Matt Morgan or Brock Lesnar. Just being BIG doesn't cut it anymore.

[Self]

I think wrestling is past "GOJIRA" acts these days. They are boring. People are into ATHLETIC "GOJIRA's" these days. If you are big you better be also be athletic ala Matt Morgan or Brock Lesnar. Just being BIG doesn't cut it anymore.

I half disagree. Yes, people are into the athleticism nowadays, and that's awesome. I certainly wouldn't put her in a spot where her clumsiness or whathaveyou would be exposed or become a detriment... but I believe there's still value in having a 7' gigantress on display. Variety is the spice of life, after all, and she's a rather unique individual. I'm sure I could come up with something worthwhile for her to do, that hides her weaknesses and promotes her strengths.

[ampulator]

Have you seen Brock doing a Shooting Star Press before? (No, not the one at Wrestlemania.) No giant, no matter how big these days, can top that.

No, if said giant can move fast as a normal person, then you got something.

[Fantabulous]

I'd hire her. She MASSIVE. Even if she can't wrestle, that's an attraction. Have her as someone's valet or something. Wrestling will always have room for some freak-show acts.

Great idea if you have no plans for the wrestler in question to get over. A valet that tall and freaky is getting all the attention.

I'm sure I could come up with something worthwhile for her to do, that hides her weaknesses and promotes her strengths.

We're all ears on this one. Go ahead and amaze us with your great idea for her.

[eayragt]

We're all ears on this one. Go ahead and amaze us with your great idea for her.

I'm not quite sure what the need for all the bitcheness is in this (and the WWE) thread. People have differing opinions, and as most of these opinions are about whether someone is "liked" or "useful" there are very few incorrect opinions (unlike the incorrect opinions if, say, someone said that Kurt Angle isn't a good technical wrestler, or the Rock doesn't cut promo's that interest the crowd).

A 7 foot woman who can't wrestle and isn't that athletic? There's plenty you can do with her. Many of them would be disasters, but surely not all of them. The Women's division is in need of a Special Attraction in my opinion - that's one of the issues with having a small division, there's only so much you can do with what you've got, but the addition of one "special" person can open many more lines. She doesn't even have to wrestle, just bully.

Or she could just be a valet... for the Amazing Red maybe. Wrestlecrap? Maybe - but some Wrestlecrap is enjoyable if done well. I choose Red as he's one of those people who can only go so far, so aligning her with him isn't going to stunt his growth. Then there's also the obvious.

The wrestling industry has history with the large, untalented bodyguard. A very low percentage of the time they make it on their own after breaking out (Batista). Some hold their own. Some disapear after their story ends never to appear again. But as long as she doesn't wrestle for 10 minutes every other week, what's the problem? This isn't RoH, this is TNA, and they also do Sports Entertainment. Could she be involved in an entertaining storyline? Sure. Will she be around in two years time? Chances are - no. Is it worth giving her a chance? Why not? Are there more people worthy of the opportunity? Sure, but when's the world ever been fair?

[juggaloninjalee]

HEr being with Amazing Red would be interesting since she is so massive and he is so small. Maybe Immortal could try to bring her in and have a womans wrestler. Then with them backing her she could be used just as a bully and play on the fact that some faces wouldn't hit a woman.

Then finally a good guy cracks and nails her which gets a big pop.

[Fantabulous]

A 7 foot woman who can't wrestle and isn't that athletic? There's plenty you can do with her. Many of them would be disasters, but surely not all of them. The Women's division is in need of a Special Attraction in my opinion - that's one of the issues with having a small division, there's only so much you can do with what you've got, but the addition of one "special" person can open many more lines. She doesn't even have to wrestle, just bully.

Even you admit whatever good ideas there are going to be for someone like that are limited. And those good ideas? They have a very short shelf life when they involve someone that big and that bad. TNA's 'Knockouts' aren't known for making limited workers look good and you'd want to put Isis in with them? How long do you think that would last before even TNA fans reject it?

Or she could just be a valet... for the Amazing Red maybe. Wrestlecrap? Maybe - but some Wrestlecrap is enjoyable if done well. I choose Red as he's one of those people who can only go so far, so aligning her with him isn't going to stunt his growth. Then there's also the obvious.

Aligning him with Isis wouldn't just stunt his growth it would regress it entirely. Red is someone that can still be the centrepeice of the X-Division and putting him with Isis would kill him and once the novelty wears off, there's nowhere else to go.

Could she be involved in an entertaining storyline? Sure.

Then I'll ask you the same question I put to Self; tell me this entertaining storyline she can involved in. Making an X-Division standout look like a midget? Have horrible matches with the Knockouts?

[Self]

I'd consider putting her with Bully Ray. It wouldn't matter if she overshadows him, because he's as popular as he can possibly get. He's also a great promo, which can help get her over and make it work. Bullies are cowards at heart, and having a valet who is 6'9 and capable of knocking out men with a single boot to the face is pretty cowardly. She can be his difference maker for a while, and eventually when his bullying becomes too misogynistic, she can turn on him, and go babyface as an empowering female role model.

At some point, probably while still heel, she'll transition to the Knockouts division and dominate. Absolutely dominate. No selling. No longer than a few minutes. Fight like an unstoppable giant. While it's no good having a limited monster as World Champion (Khali) the Knockouts belt is far less important, to the point where you can win it by picking a box.

Other ideas? Generation Me. She'll make them look small, but they'll also make her look huge. As much as I love the Young Bucks, they're a midcard heel act, and hiding behind such a giant could work. Their in-ring style is such that when they need attention on them, they can get it. They will be overshadowed, but they're still young. No rush.

It all depends on chemistry and what she is actually like. I'm just a guy at a computer who has seen half a dozen pics of her (most of 'em nekkid) So I haven't seen enough of her to know her personality and the flavour of her charisma. I'd probably pair with a cowardly heel to begin with though. Play the stern monster card first, then slowly reveal they woman beneath the size.

The Great Khali is popular in his current role, so I see little reason why Isis doesn't have a chance to be likewise. You can't push clumsy giants to the top any more, but I maintain there's a spot for them, especially when 6'9 and a woman. Chyna wasn't much of a worker, and she had a pretty strong fanbase for a while.

[Fantabulous]

I'd consider putting her with Bully Ray. It wouldn't matter if she overshadows him, because he's as popular as he can possibly get. He's also a great promo, which can help get her over and make it work. Bullies are cowards at heart, and having a valet who is 6'9 and capable of knocking out men with a single boot to the face is pretty cowardly. She can be his difference maker for a while, and eventually when his bullying becomes too misogynistic, she can turn on him, and go babyface as an empowering female role model.

At some point, probably while still heel, she'll transition to the Knockouts division and dominate. Absolutely dominate. No selling. No longer than a few minutes. Fight like an unstoppable giant. While it's no good having a limited monster as World Champion (Khali) the Knockouts belt is far less important, to the point where you can win it by picking a box.

Other ideas? Generation Me. She'll make them look small, but they'll also make her look huge. As much as I love the Young Bucks, they're a midcard heel act, and hiding behind such a giant could work. Their in-ring style is such that when they need attention on them, they can get it. They will be overshadowed, but they're still young. No rush.

It all depends on chemistry and what she is actually like. I'm just a guy at a computer who has seen half a dozen pics of her (most of 'em nekkid) So I haven't seen enough of her to know her personality and the flavour of her charisma. I'd probably pair with a cowardly heel to begin with though. Play the stern monster card first, then slowly reveal they woman beneath the size.

The Great Khali is popular in his current role, so I see little reason why Isis doesn't have a chance to be likewise. You can't push clumsy giants to the top any more, but I maintain there's a spot for them, especially when 6'9 and a woman. Chyna wasn't much of a worker, and she had a pretty strong fanbase for a while.

I cannot say that I agree with everything here but I can say that I can see the logic behind it and it does make some sort of sense. So, kudos on that.

[ampulator]

The good news is... TNA doesn't have the "talent" that can legit challenge her. I think it's been proven smaller guys can beat bigger guys if said smalller guys were in much better shape and more talented. Just being big isn't enough.

[eayragt]

Even you admit whatever good ideas there are going to be for someone like that are limited. And those good ideas? They have a very short shelf life when they involve someone that big and that bad. TNA's 'Knockouts' aren't known for making limited workers look good and you'd want to put Isis in with them? How long do you think that would last before even TNA fans reject it?


Actually, that's not what I said. I said there were many things that you could do with her, many of which would be disasters. Thing is, there are many things you can do with Steve Austin that could be disasters. Sure, there's stuff that Austin can do that she can't, but there's a lot she can do that Austin can't / couldn't (as I'm talking past tense Austin... WCW Austin).

And short shelf life? Not a problem. Not everything about TNA has to be about long term. Bringing back Steiner isn't long term, but it's a good short term move. TNA don't have the money of WWE to keep throwing stuff until the wall until something sticks, but that doesn't mean they can't try. And when you have someone unique and almost certainly cheap, there's very little to lose (unless you carry on trying to make it stick when it's clear it wont).

[Fantabulous]

TNA don't have the money of WWE to keep throwing stuff until the wall until something sticks, but that doesn't mean they can't try. And when you have someone unique and almost certainly cheap, there's very little to lose (unless you carry on trying to make it stick when it's clear it wont).
I agree with this sentiment. And normally, this is where I'd question why the promotion don't at least think before they bring in someone with minimal upside, to put it mildly, but then I remember we're talking about TNA.