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AfRoMaN36
12-08-2009, 04:36 AM
Lately I've found myself visiting the Dog Pound less and less because of a problem I feel may be going on with it. I may be the only one who feels this way but I think this forum is becoming over moderated. Chances are this thread will be locked but I feel I should share my concern regardless and hopefully something will be done.

In the last few days we've had more than a share of threads close, some without explanation given. The one about Umagas death stood out the most because no one was really arguing and the discussion was still about Umagas death. IMO theirs no reason to lock that thread. Not only that but we've combined all TNA and WWE threads into two threads in order to reduce clutter. I don't know about you, but there was hardly any clutter to begin with and in fact i've found it cluttering to navigate through an entire thread to talk about wrestling. I just thought it was unessesary.

There's more but it's early so I can't think of them now. I'm a moderator at another website and I have been since maybe 2006 and one thing I've learned is that it's better to slightly under mod than over mod. When you over mod and (I hate to use the term, but it was used on me once) and you '****-Mod' you turn people off. This is a non-topic zone but we seem to not be able to do that anymore. And I won't even bother trying to post political threads up anymore. I used to come to this place fir that kind of stimulating conversation, even if it ended up in arguing, but it feels like even if it doesn't... it will. Which stinks because I've been wanting to put up a thread about Obama for a while now.

So that's my beef. Like stated, I'm not tring to ruffle feathers, just share some concerns. I feel like to some guys (like me) the dog pound is a place to just have fun, talk sports and clown around. I just don't want to lose that. I'm also wondering if I'm the only one with this concern or if I'm just overanalyzing.

Self
12-08-2009, 05:11 AM
I do think there have been a few 'early stoppages' when it comes to closing threads. I remember the old religion thread being an utterly fascinating discussion of differing views and opinions and lifestyles, until one guy came in with a bad attitude and BAM! Closed! Ultimately that might have been the right call, the trolling could have escalated, but I still felt the match was stopped a tad early.

I like the WWE/TNA threads though. They're the equivalent of the "Small Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread" thread in the TEW08 forum. Back in the day it wasn't worth making a new thread just to make comment about the Dudebusters or my man-crush on Zack Ryder, but now I can do it whenever I want.

AfRoMaN36
12-08-2009, 05:19 AM
I do think there have been a few 'early stoppages' when it comes to closing threads. I remember the old religion thread being an utterly fascinating discussion of differing views and opinions and lifestyles, until one guy came in with a bad attitude and BAM! Closed! Ultimately that might have been the right call, the trolling could have escalated, but I still felt the match was stopped a tad early.

I like the WWE/TNA threads though. They're the equivalent of the "Small Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread" thread in the TEW08 forum. Back in the day it wasn't worth making a new thread just to make comment about the Dudebusters or my man-crush on Zack Ryder, but now I can do it whenever I want.

for those reasons you sited I think the threads aren't totally bad, but some things do warrant a new thread only to be told there's already a thread for WWE discussions. I just don't wanna have to search through posts to see if someone else has already said what I am about to say.

alden
12-08-2009, 06:20 AM
I might be way off base here but i look at it like this. this is not a forum that is soley a forum.....this is the forum of a software company. That is the main thing to remember....this entire web site represents greydog software.....I think they are right to early lock any topic that could offend anyone......and i do mean anyone.....I think that might be the strick stuff on piracy......drugs....profanity and so forth. I think if it was a simply community forum for the game it would be diffrent. Again i might be way off base on this one but that is just my opinion.

AfRoMaN36
12-08-2009, 07:00 AM
I might be way off base here but i look at it like this. this is not a forum that is soley a forum.....this is the forum of a software company. That is the main thing to remember....this entire web site represents greydog software.....I think they are right to early lock any topic that could offend anyone......and i do mean anyone.....I think that might be the strick stuff on piracy......drugs....profanity and so forth. I think if it was a simply community forum for the game it would be diffrent. Again i might be way off base on this one but that is just my opinion.

You make a fair point, but my one quarrel with this is that this isn't EA. GDS does not cater to the mainstream crowd but a small but loyal fringe group. We on this forum, make a nice chunk of that fringe group. And if we aren't cursing or flamming (which then it's justifiable to close the thread) why alienate that group? If we want to talk about Drugs in the wrestling industry so what? If a heated debate comes up and everyone remains respectful, well I see only good in that. If we make a pointless thread were we jut joke around and as long as no feelings are hurt, why close it? Better to do it in the Dog pound than in the TEW thread.

I've spent countless dollars on Adams games while running an outside efed based soley on his game where I blatantly advertised it. and I'm not trying to use that as a crutch to do whatever I want, I'm saying that because I'm part of this fringe group that will buy GDS games. If closing these threads and over-modding has to do with trying to protect and not offend customers, he doesn't need to do that. Kids cannot comprehend these games so I'm sure there contribution to sales are virtually non-existant. I say as long as we don't flame or curse, te Dog Pound should be left alone.

Adam Ryland
12-08-2009, 07:23 AM
If closing these threads and over-modding has to do with trying to protect and not offend customers, he doesn't need to do that.

Yes, apparently we do. The last time we went with "under-modding" and just letting debates continue resulted in the Anubis fiasco that saw a large chunk of people leave and set up their own board rather than deal with the Dog Pound - several very good posters no longer regularly come here as a result.

It has been proven time and time again that unless we're fairly strict about the rules, there's a minority of posters who aren't mature or respectful, and they'll cause more trouble than it's worth. Relaxed rules may be appropriate on other boards, boards that are set up entirely for the purpose of discussion, but these are forums to support GDS as a company, and we're not going to run them in a manner that may lose us customers (and yes, I think the constant flame wars and insults from "under-modding" lose us a heck of a lot more customers than those who feel alienated by "over-modding).

Nedew
12-08-2009, 09:45 AM
...There was a fiasco? Why wasn't I informed!?

darthsiddus2
12-08-2009, 10:09 AM
I can think of on instance where someone was constantly flamed for not releasing his japan mod to the public (thank god he's no longer with us)

Franchise22
12-08-2009, 10:15 AM
my only beef with wwe only thread is alot can get lost in ONE thread. i always like to see topics and click and read accordingly. after working all day, doing the family thing, i may have to read through pages of random wwe chatter during my 1 or two daily visits here. that has no focus vs a specific topic to discuss.

just my opinion.

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 11:22 AM
Yes, apparently we do. The last time we went with "under-modding" and just letting debates continue resulted in the Anubis fiasco that saw a large chunk of people leave and set up their own board rather than deal with the Dog Pound - several very good posters no longer regularly come here as a result.

It has been proven time and time again that unless we're fairly strict about the rules, there's a minority of posters who aren't mature or respectful, and they'll cause more trouble than it's worth. Relaxed rules may be appropriate on other boards, boards that are set up entirely for the purpose of discussion, but these are forums to support GDS as a company, and we're not going to run them in a manner that may lose us customers (and yes, I think the constant flame wars and insults from "under-modding" lose us a heck of a lot more customers than those who feel alienated by "over-modding).

I'm new here, so what on earth was the "Anubis Fiasco"? Anyways, I actually think that the Umaga thread had run its course. Nobody was saying goodbyes anymore, they were just starting unrelated conversations.

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 11:25 AM
Meh, I should've included this in my other post, but I'll post again anyways. Back on topic, it has been a little bit over-modded, but I've seen some boards that don't have any modding, and those boards became the digital equivilant to graffiti! It is much better to have over-modding than no modding at all! Trust me, that board I was on sucked!

Also, has anybody noticed that there has been very little posting that past few days? I thought that the boards would become overflowing with posts and conversations due to the 2010 developer's journal, but nothing. If anything there are less conversations and posts. Why? :(

CQI13
12-08-2009, 11:33 AM
If you search "Anubis" you can see part of the fall out from the original thread. I don't remember it when it happened (I may not have been here). But just seeing some posts, I can see how it could have degenerated quickly.

As for the WWE/TNA only threads, it would be nice if there was a link on the first post for relevant topics within, but that would be pretty time consuming for whoever is editing it.

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 11:42 AM
If you search "Anubis" you can see part of the fall out from the original thread. I don't remember it when it happened (I may not have been here). But just seeing some posts, I can see how it could have degenerated quickly.



Yeah, um, I can't find anything about the Anubis incident. Can you give me a link to it? It must be pretty bad if it made a whole chunk of people leave!

The Masked Orange
12-08-2009, 11:45 AM
I like this forum because it is over-modded.

If you want interesting discussion, then yes, that should be allowed, but time and time again people have shown that they (not everyone) want to cause offense.

Other forums end up as unusable because there are constantly people using the internet as a means to bully and flame other people.

And if people decide to leave because the rules here are a little tight, let them leave. There are places for talking with no restrictions, and that certainly isn't on the website of an independent software company. They really do not want to end up with a reputation for flaming and the behaviour of vagabonds rather than a reputation for the great quality of thier games.



Yes people like starting up threads to do with politics and all the more risque topics because this is a small, friendly board with a lot of well-informed people, but even the worlds smartest man will turn a conversation nasty if he is offended, and that is easily done. So when an un-informed man is insulted a lot worse happens.


Things are much better the way they are, conversations may end early, but noone get's majorly affected.

Derek B
12-08-2009, 11:50 AM
It's really not worth looking up unless you have a desire to punish yourself... but even then, if you are that way inclined there are better ways to do that. The point is, it was a horrible time and the poster caused a lot of trouble by crossing all kinds of lines back then.

Now, things are moderated and I'd say that a good job is generally done. This is a forum designed to support the games that GDS make and it needs to be kept pretty "clean" compared to an ordinary forum. There are a lot of touchy subjects out there and there is a track record of certain types of threads being closed due to content. The past has shown that while some are clearly capable of mature and eloqeuent debate, others are not. And because of this things tend to be moderated before they get out of hand and degenerate into an "incident".

All in all though, I think that things are generally done pretty well around here. The WWE/TNA threads are for those little bits of news that would otherwise get a handful of posts and die off... but things like Hulk Hogan, wrestler deaths and the like, they deserve their own threads and get them. Seems about right to me and is good for keeping people on point, which is something that rarely happens when everyone is leaving comments on 5 WWE related threads. :)

PeterHilton
12-08-2009, 11:57 AM
There was a poster named Anubis who generally spent a lot of time being waaaaaay over the top to the point that every top he started or got involved in turned into a brutal flame war.

And you can't really say he was 'trolling' because he had the same name and behaved the same way on a couple of other boards dealing with wrestling sims (ie tnm7's boards)

And any time he had an in-game problem he accused Adam of a conspiracy where he'd created the game specifically to ruin Anubis' life and/or F with his head.

Eventually he was banned.

There...that's the Anubis fiasco.

And on topic: it's a message board for a software company. The fact they have an off-topic section at all is kind of a bonus.

Nedew
12-08-2009, 12:00 PM
I would agree with the original statement that this place is a tad over-moderated, but at the end of the day i understand why and i'm hardly gonna up and leave because of it.

And this is coming from a guy who has always ran the line fairly close - from clashing with TC Dale at .400 to being banned here - I'd attribute this to practically growing up on forums like this, having initially joined EWB aged 11. Teething trouble was bound to crop up along the way :p

Whereas here, perhaps things have mellowed more recently. I had a few outbursts on my old account, and every now and then i'll lose my rag a bit and go 'too far' with the sarcasm, but i'm relatively saintly compared to the past. Stennick may disagree, but y'know ;)

But basically, my point is, yes things aren't perfect but they're damn close enough.

djthefunkchris
12-08-2009, 12:03 PM
In all honesty, I like the WWE/TNA discussion threads more then seeing three posts pop up with the same basic content (TNA Signs "S").

Just post all related WWE and TNA stuff in thier own thread. There have been more then a couple of posts I've seen right after these threads were made, when I felt that they should have just stayed in their respective threads. New signings, worker leaving, no matter what it is, as long as it is centered around that promotion, let it stay in that thread.

The Masked Orange
12-08-2009, 12:30 PM
Even the worlds smartest man will turn a conversation nasty if he is offended, and that is easily done. So when an un-informed man is insulted a lot worse happens.

Sorry, I just wanted to make another point of this, something irrelevent and self-needy but it needs to be done...

That's probably the most Confucious-esque thing I have ever said. It belongs in a fortune cookie.




Back on topic, I think people do need to be given time to mature, as Nedew said, but some people use the internet as a cloak because they know that there are a staggering amount of forums out there and if they go around having fun by flaming people and get banned it will take them three minutes to get accounts on 10 other forums. That's why the internet is both a curse and a blessin, and why this forum is so good.

MrCanada
12-08-2009, 12:33 PM
So time to close this thread? Seems to of accomplished the point. haha.

But yea, I kind of like this place because of the moderation. I've been on-and-off boards since... well, I cant really remember, probably when I was 13 because my arm was all screwed up from hockey and I became a hermit. Being 22 now, I've been on almost all sorts of boards from the ones where it literally is just pandamoniom of people being dummys, to more strict "Official" boards of companies and such like this one, to the good ole' fashioned boards where there are only like 20-30 consistantley active posters who seem to enjoy each others company.

GDS has a nice balance. I would love if there was a "let the **** hit the fan board" or something that only "veteran" or proven mature posters could post and threads could become engluffed with debate. I think we all know on forums or on face-to-face conversations, the best conversation is the one that keeps evolving, which is what over-moderating can sometimes strip away.

PeterHilton
12-08-2009, 12:34 PM
Sorry, I just wanted to make another point of this, something irrelevent and self-needy but it needs to be done...

That's probably the most Confucious-esque thing I have ever said. It belongs in a fortune cookie.

Entirely too long. Not nearly metaphorical enough.

"Even the wisest tiger will growl when one mocks the color of their stripes"

Now THAT'S a fortune cookie.

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 12:35 PM
I would love if there was a "let the **** hit the fan board" or something that only "veteran" or proven mature posters could post and threads could become engluffed with debate.

I have a problem with this. Wasn't "Anubis" technically a "veteran"?

shamelessposer
12-08-2009, 12:39 PM
It has been proven time and time again that unless we're fairly strict about the rules, there's a minority of posters who aren't mature or respectful, and they'll cause more trouble than it's worth.

By my reckoning, the only set of rules we have is the code of conduct.


1. Do not flame people in threads. Seems simple and this item alone helps make each topic much more interesting and will generate better overall discussions.

2. Do not use personal attacks and insults. Resorting to this tactic when you disagree is a quick way to turn people off to your comments and make yourself somewhat irrelevant in discussions. Try to focus on making your point, not marginalizing yourself.

3. Be respectful. This single act can make the time you spend at the GDS forums much more enjoyable for yourself and others around you.

I've seen political threads closed on the grounds that they're political threads, and I've had a thread on Archie comics closed on the grounds that "this is a family-friendly forum." The Umaga thread was closed without any of those rules being broken, either.

If you want to ban political discussion, that's great. If you don't want us talking about the Riverdale gang, that's great. If you don't want us discussing the drug problem in wrestling, that's great. But it's very, very frustrating when threads are closed or pulled and topics or posters are banned when there is no apparent methodology going into the moderation process. If you want us to follow your rules, a good start would be posting them somewhere.

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 12:42 PM
By my reckoning, the only set of rules we have is the code of conduct.



I've seen political threads closed on the grounds that they're political threads, and I've had a thread on Archie comics closed on the grounds that "this is a family-friendly forum." The Umaga thread was closed without any of those rules being broken, either.

If you want to ban political discussion, that's great. If you don't want us talking about the Riverdale gang, that's great. If you don't want us discussing the drug problem in wrestling, that's great. But it's very, very frustrating when threads are closed or pulled and topics or posters are banned when there is no apparent methodology going into the moderation process. If you want us to follow your rules, a good start would be posting them somewhere.

How are Archie comics not family-friendly? They are in the comics section of the newspaper, where kids usually read. :confused: Now that you mention it, there does need to be more explicit rules. We need to know why those threads are shut down!

shamelessposer
12-08-2009, 12:51 PM
How are Archie comics not family-friendly? They are in the comics section of the newspaper, where kids usually read. :confused: Now that you mention it, there does need to be more explicit rules. We need to know why those threads are shut down!

In that thread I had posted something, I forget what, which had been blocked out by the board censorship software. Asterisks aren't family friendly.

EDIT: Again, in case my point was missed: I am not arguing for more or less moderation. I'm arguing that the people posting to this board can't be expected to abide by rules unless we know what they are, and that the rules are useless unless they're evenly applied.

The Masked Orange
12-08-2009, 12:54 PM
Entirely too long. Not nearly metaphorical enough.

"Even the wisest tiger will growl when one mocks the color of their stripes"

Now THAT'S a fortune cookie.

No, thats a reason not to insult Tiger Woods. Making fun of his colour, tsk...

(Note this was not a race joke, it was a joke about the colour of his attire, sorry if that was lost in translation.)


The above bit was done to show what to do if you think you may offend somebody with what you say. Explain yourself properly and there will be less thread closures.

"One word does more damage than a thousand fortune cookies"

Does Tiger still wear stripey attire?



EDIT: Much to my shame I have realised that I am not thinking of Tiger woods, but Tiger Allen. An amateur golfer who taught me how to swing a club. I now realise that what I said was quite foolish...

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 12:56 PM
Um, everybody, you might want to take a look at who's the newest member of the GDS forums. :eek:

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 12:59 PM
Never mind, my joke was ruined by a new person who signed up. I made a fake account that's name was "Anoobis". Move along, nothing to see here! :D

The Masked Orange
12-08-2009, 12:59 PM
Um, everybody, you might want to take a look at who's the newest member of the GDS forums. :eek:

Lashley?

EDIT: Twice the fool, joke on me...

Nevermore
12-08-2009, 12:59 PM
On a point of reciprocity... Essentially, these forums have been very fun/enjoyable for me over the years. GDS (and the community - which, obviously, wouldn't exist without GDS) has afforded me that enjoyment. Therefore, it seems only right for us (or at least anyone who appreciates their time here) to abide by whatever rules or modding-styles are employed... as a gesture of gratitude if nothing more

However, I would agree with poser. Sometimes, threads have been closed and I haven't really understood the rationale. If the rules were explained more clearly or, rather, updated to reflect the moderators' feelings, I do think that would help.

Quote The Raven
Nevermore

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 12:59 PM
Never mind, my joke was ruined by a new person who signed up. I made a fake account that's name was "Anoobis". Move along, nothing to see here! :D

No, this. :p That was a major backfiring joke! :D

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 01:01 PM
Quote The Raven
Nevermore

The best saying in the history of sayings! :D

Remianen
12-08-2009, 01:34 PM
There was a poster named Anubis who generally spent a lot of time being waaaaaay over the top to the point that every top he started or got involved in turned into a brutal flame war.

And you can't really say he was 'trolling' because he had the same name and behaved the same way on a couple of other boards dealing with wrestling sims (ie tnm7's boards)

And any time he had an in-game problem he accused Adam of a conspiracy where he'd created the game specifically to ruin Anubis' life and/or F with his head.

Eventually he was banned.

There...that's the Anubis fiasco.

CliffNotes version, that is.

Speaking as a person who has been reprimanded on more than one occasion for "having a go" at Anubis, I totally understand the change in moderation severity.

But one thing that should be kept in mind: this isn't a public forum. If Arlie or Adam or Tara one day said 'No 'u' in any post or it gets locked/deleted', guess what? Well within their rights. The Dog Pound's existence period is a privilege, not a right. Same for the Mafia/forum games forum or anything not directly tied to a specific game. I would agree that a bit more detail in the rules might help but I don't think it's a necessity.

Wallbanger
12-08-2009, 01:36 PM
Quite honestly, Adam and his mods (BWB in particular) have developed into some of the most attentive and effective mods I've seen on a forum of this size. And when it comes right down to it, if Adam's happy with how the board is modded, that's all that really matters. His house, his rules.

In particular, what impresses me is that they know the community well enough to know who can be passionate without crossing the line and who needs to be pulled up on a short leash early and often.

Wallbanger
12-08-2009, 01:42 PM
Oh, and /wave PeterHilton! Haven't seen you in these parts for ages!

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 01:45 PM
In particular, what impresses me is that they know the community well enough to know who can be passionate without crossing the line and who needs to be pulled up on a short leash early and often.

This part is true, at least IMO. This board feels more like a small town of friends that a online community. Maybe that's one of the reasons I like it here so much! :D

NickC13573
12-08-2009, 01:47 PM
This part is true, at least IMO. This board feels more like a small town of friends that a online community. Maybe that's one of the reasons I like it here so much! :D

with little community raised children. "I dont have one mommy and daddy! I have 20 Mommies and 20 Daddies!!!!!! YA!!!!!"


lol

PeterHilton
12-08-2009, 01:53 PM
Oh, and /wave PeterHilton! Haven't seen you in these parts for ages!

Yeah..I'm just catching up with the game. for some reason I never got into 08 but TEW10 has me perked up.

Good to see familiar faces. :)

And as someone who, like Remi, also got reprimanded for arguing with Anubis, I'm also going to agree entirely with what he said.

Look at the forums as a privilege and if you really don't know why a particular thread got closed, try sending a politely worded PM.

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 01:54 PM
with little community raised children. "I dont have one mommy and daddy! I have 20 Mommies and 20 Daddies!!!!!! YA!!!!!"


lol

And don't forget the the grandkids: "I have 40 Mommies and 40 Daddies!" Their worst fear would be viruses. Erm, never mind, that would be a bit too freaky! :D

Wallbanger
12-08-2009, 01:54 PM
with little community raised children. "I dont have one mommy and daddy! I have 20 Mommies and 20 Daddies!!!!!! YA!!!!!"


lol

Having grown up a farm kid, this is more true than many may realize.

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 01:55 PM
Having grown up a farm kid, this is more true than many may realize.

But how is that possibl.....never mind. :D

NickC13573
12-08-2009, 01:57 PM
And don't forget the the grandkids: "I have 40 Mommies and 40 Daddies!" Their worst fear would be viruses. Erm, never mind, that would be a bit too freaky! :D

certainly, you must Tuberculosis ;)

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 02:01 PM
certainly, you must Tuberculosis ;)

My lungs are perfectly healthy, thank you! :p ;)

Moderndaywarrior
12-08-2009, 02:03 PM
The moederation seems just about right to me; the Off-Topic section in particular is one of the only OT sections I have seen on any forum where you have mostly sensible topics with decent discussion and not page after page of flaming,baiting,insults,trolling or generally idiotic "leet" behavior that seems to dominate the OT section of most boards.Of course a big chunk of the credit there has to go the community itself,but a another big chunk of the credit has to go to the mods as well.

Is there the occasional mistake? Sure. I'd say about 99% of the time though they handle it just right.

machinesxe
12-08-2009, 02:05 PM
Quite honestly, Adam and his mods (BWB in particular) have developed into some of the most attentive and effective mods I've seen on a forum of this size. And when it comes right down to it, if Adam's happy with how the board is modded, that's all that really matters. His house, his rules.

In particular, what impresses me is that they know the community well enough to know who can be passionate without crossing the line and who needs to be pulled up on a short leash early and often.
At first I agreed with Afo but then after reading Adam's post and this one I have to agree with what Adam has done here and what everyone that works for GDS has done. This group of core people at GDS is a great group of people. With that said Adam has in time gone out of his way to get right down in the "trenches" with us and take part in our everyday nutty stuff (IE. Mafia games...and also random wrestling related stuff.)

Afro I would say if you don't like the modding just take a break and come back after visiting another site and I am sure you will remeber why you have become such a longtime fan of the GDS board. (this is in no way to be a slam on you, more so a suggestion)

Yes in some cases a few past members have made it a little less entertaining here b/c of there inability to learn to deal with one another but at the end of the day you will never find another forum as friendly or as personal as this one.

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 02:12 PM
At first I agreed with Afo but then after reading Adam's post and this one I have to agree with what Adam has done here and what everyone that works for GDS has done. This group of core people at GDS is a great group of people. With that said Adam has in time gone out of his way to get right down in the "trenches" with us and take part in our everyday nutty stuff (IE. Mafia games...and also random wrestling related stuff.)

Afro I would say if you don't like the modding just take a break and come back after visiting another site and I am sure you will remeber why you have become such a longtime fan of the GDS board. (this is in no way to be a slam on you, more so a suggestion)

Yes in some cases a few past members have made it a little less entertaining here b/c of there inability to learn to deal with one another but at the end of the day you will never find another forum as friendly or as personal as this one.

Yeah, every other board I've been on has always been like this: 20% good conversations, 80% flame wars and the like. But at GDS it is: 95% good conversations, 5% flame wars and the like. So I was probably wrong to complain. As long as it stays like this, I'm good! :cool:

Dublin Sky
12-08-2009, 04:28 PM
I feel sometimes this is true I was told by Adam to watch my language as the site is child friendly. The funny thing is I have visited other parts of the forum and have seen bad language being used yet nothing said or done about it.

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 04:38 PM
I feel sometimes this is true I was told by Adam to watch my language as the site is child friendly. The funny thing is I have visited other parts of the forum and have seen bad language being used yet nothing said or done about it.

It depends on what you say. At least that's my account of it. But my accounts of things haven't really too good. Ever. Just remember everyone, don't take advice from me! :D

I am Wrestling Century, and I approve of this message!

Adam Ryland
12-08-2009, 04:52 PM
I feel sometimes this is true I was told by Adam to watch my language as the site is child friendly. The funny thing is I have visited other parts of the forum and have seen bad language being used yet nothing said or done about it.

If it's a first offense then it is dealt with by PM, so it likely has been dealt with you just can't see that it has. I'm not aware of any repeat usage - if it's happening, then it's because I haven't seen it. I don't see what the issue is anyway, if a specific poster can't get through a message without swearing then the problem is at his or her end, not mine, and is clearly breaking the rules too.

masterded
12-08-2009, 04:52 PM
Though off topic I got to say, if it wasn’t for the Dog Pound (and the mafia games which I still consider part of the dog pound) I never would have bought the two WMMA games. I would have almost never came on the forums with the only exception being to get the TEW updates. I would have saw WMMA and say though I am a MMA fan not interested and never looked back. Instead little discussions in the off topic forums made me give the first WMMA demo a chance and boy am I happy I did.

shamelessposer
12-08-2009, 08:59 PM
CliffNotes version, that is.

Speaking as a person who has been reprimanded on more than one occasion for "having a go" at Anubis, I totally understand the change in moderation severity.

But one thing that should be kept in mind: this isn't a public forum. If Arlie or Adam or Tara one day said 'No 'u' in any post or it gets locked/deleted', guess what? Well within their rights. The Dog Pound's existence period is a privilege, not a right. Same for the Mafia/forum games forum or anything not directly tied to a specific game. I would agree that a bit more detail in the rules might help but I don't think it's a necessity.

I'm not disputing their right to ban the letter 'u' in posts. I'm saying that it's unfair to expect posters not to use 'u' without telling them that it's prohibited.

ampulator
12-08-2009, 09:37 PM
I don't think this forum is overmodded, because they certainly have allowed this thread to go longer than I thought it would have.

Seriously, I'm not joking. If this board is overmodded, than every forum I go to must Fascist Dicatorships. I'm serious on that point too.

mjdgoldeneye
12-08-2009, 09:56 PM
There's a few combinations of posters that nearly always mean trouble. Alone, they're fine. Together, things get ugly. I'm normally a minor flame catalyst, but I've never gotten a thread closed. :D

There are some topics that bring up bizarre stuff that really rattle some people, too. I know someone in particular who felt the need to matter-of-factly claim 9/11 was a blatant in-job (You know who you are). (It wasn't that he even just believed that, which is a somewhat widespread conspiracy theory at this point, but that he cited obviously cuckoo sites and arguments like no plane debris was found at the Pentagon crash site (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/PentagonDebrisMontagecopy1.jpg/PentagonDebrisMontagecopy1-full.jpg). Sorry, I'm rambling. See my point? ;))

Quite honestly, Adam and his mods (BWB in particular) have developed into some of the most attentive and effective mods I've seen on a forum of this size. And when it comes right down to it, if Adam's happy with how the board is modded, that's all that really matters. His house, his rules.

In particular, what impresses me is that they know the community well enough to know who can be passionate without crossing the line and who needs to be pulled up on a short leash early and often.

They are very good, but there was that one obvious porn thread that took a good 8 or 12 hours to close... :p

Zeel1
12-08-2009, 10:00 PM
They are very good, but there was that one obvious porn thread that took a good 8 or 12 hours to close... :p

Well that's odd, you'd expect it to only take 15 minutes or so.. :p

djthefunkchris
12-08-2009, 10:03 PM
They are very good, but there was that one obvious porn thread that took a good 8 or 12 hours to close... :p

There was a time when the sight/forum was being overun every morning by porn somehow. They ended that I believe, as I haven't seen any of it since.

To be fair on the "time" it took... Those were going up it seemed 10 at a time, all over the dang place (not just in one area, but in several different parts of the forum).

They were down very fast, when compared to any other forum I've been on.

I've noticed quite a few forums aren't having the problems anymore, probably due to better forum priviledging (checking to make sure it's a real person, etc).

slack
12-08-2009, 10:30 PM
I really like these forums. Sometimes, I would love get into a heated debate with someone over politics or whatnot, but I understand GDS' reasoning for not letting certain things happen. And that's ok.

Anyway, who wants to start a debate?

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 10:40 PM
I really like these forums. Sometimes, I would love get into a heated debate with someone over politics or whatnot, but I understand GDS' reasoning for not letting certain things happen. And that's ok.

Anyway, who wants to start a debate?

Me. The capital of France is India! And NOBODY can tell me otherwise! :p :D

Zeel1
12-08-2009, 10:47 PM
Anyway, who wants to start a debate?

You park in a driveway, and drive in a parkway. Discuss.

ampulator
12-08-2009, 11:15 PM
You park in a driveway, and drive in a parkway. Discuss.
What? No, seriously, what?

djthefunkchris
12-08-2009, 11:47 PM
You park in a driveway, and drive in a parkway. Discuss.

And hardly move in Rush Hour.

PeterHilton
12-08-2009, 11:49 PM
And hardly move in Rush Hour.

Are you high? Jackie Chan was moving all over the place in that thing.

NickC13573
12-08-2009, 11:51 PM
Are you high? Jackie Chan was moving all over the place in that thing.

"If you chinese, I'm Black"

"You can't be black... There's a height requirement!"

djthefunkchris
12-08-2009, 11:51 PM
Are you high? Jackie Chan was moving all over the place in that thing.

A bus station is where the Bus stops. A train station is where the Train stops. I have a workstation....

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 11:52 PM
A bus station is where the Bus stops. A train station is where the Train stops. I have a workstation....

Where the work stops! :D

NickC13573
12-08-2009, 11:52 PM
A bus station is where the Bus stops. A train station is where the Train stops. I have a workstation....

that's where the work keeps going, and going, and going.

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 11:54 PM
that's where the work keeps going, and going, and going.

Nope. If it has station at the end, it stops! See, you have to follow a pattern. You can't just have no flow to something! :p

djthefunkchris
12-08-2009, 11:56 PM
Where the work stops! :D

If quitters never win, and winners never quit.. Who come up with "Quit while your ahead"?

How did the sign that says "Don't walk on the grass" get there?

If we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

What happens if you get scared half to death, twice?

PeterHilton
12-08-2009, 11:56 PM
A bus station is where the Bus stops. A train station is where the Train stops. I have a workstation....

Where you download copious amounts of porn!

Wrestling Century
12-08-2009, 11:59 PM
If quitters never win, and winners never quit.. Who come up with "Quit while your ahead"?
A winner.

How did the sign that says "Don't walk on the grass" get there?
Erm, work?

If we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
To help you! :D

What happens if you get scared half to death, twice? Nothing.


There's the answers. They were just hidden by lemon juice! :p

djthefunkchris
12-09-2009, 12:02 AM
There's the answers. They were just hidden by lemon juice! :p

Lemons make lemon juice, Tomatoes make tomato juice, Vegetables make vegetable oil, Olives make Olive oil... What makes baby oil?

Bah... We need to stop (Sorry mods).

EDIT: Had to go back several years for all these.... See what Driving in a Parkway will do to ya?

Wrestling Century
12-09-2009, 12:09 AM
Lemons make lemon juice, Tomatoes make tomato juice, Vegetables make vegetable oil, Olives make Olive oil... What makes baby oil?

Bah... We need to stop (Sorry mods).

EDIT: Had to go back several years for all these.... See what Driving in a Parkway will do to ya?

I do not have a serious answer nor a sarcastic answer to that question! :D

Adam Ryland
12-09-2009, 04:33 AM
Please keep it on topic.

Capelli King
12-09-2009, 07:40 AM
Lately I've found myself visiting the Dog Pound less and less because of a problem I feel may be going on with it. I may be the only one who feels this way but I think this forum is becoming over moderated.


All i can say is that you are lucky that you are not playing Cybernations, their forums are REALLY over moderated. I got 2 warnings in the past, one was because i replied to a topic which was 4 days old and the other was because i replied to a topic with just one word, they said i will get a ban if i abused the rules again :eek:

To be honest i like it when there is a certain level of moderation, hate it when people are disrespectful or post blatant spam or abuse, maybe you are right about the merging of the TNA\WWE thread though, considering in these forums are mainly wrestling or MMA fans, merging all the topics connected to WWE would sound a little daft

Moderndaywarrior
12-09-2009, 08:23 AM
All i can say is that you are lucky that you are not playing Cybernations, their forums are REALLY over moderated. I got 2 warnings in the past, one was because i replied to a topic which was 4 days old and the other was because i replied to a topic with just one word, they said i will get a ban if i abused the rules again :eek:

To be honest i like it when there is a certain level of moderation, hate it when people are disrespectful or post blatant spam or abuse, maybe you are right about the merging of the TNA\WWE thread though, considering in these forums are mainly wrestling or MMA fans, merging all the topics connected to WWE would sound a little daft

Well,when it comes to forum moderation,one thing to remember it is ok to wonder about or have questions about why certain things were done;what is important is how you handle them.

Forum moderation,like many other things in the world,is a job;so take a minute to think: If someone at your job has concerns about some work you did how would you want them handle it.....privately ask you what's going on or stroll into your work area and start questioning your decisions and work quality in front of all your co-workers and friends?

Now,I'm saying that is what's happening right there;I do think if you take a minute to ask yourself you'll find yourself in trouble a lot less....not just in a game forum but IRL as well.

Nedew
12-09-2009, 08:34 AM
Please keep it on topic.

Hmm, any reason you edited away your initial chastising of WC? ;)

darthsiddus2
12-09-2009, 08:50 AM
yea who came up with the WC anyway? damn brits lol kidding :P

AfRoMaN36
12-09-2009, 02:37 PM
Yes, apparently we do. The last time we went with "under-modding" and just letting debates continue resulted in the Anubis fiasco that saw a large chunk of people leave and set up their own board rather than deal with the Dog Pound - several very good posters no longer regularly come here as a result.

It has been proven time and time again that unless we're fairly strict about the rules, there's a minority of posters who aren't mature or respectful, and they'll cause more trouble than it's worth. Relaxed rules may be appropriate on other boards, boards that are set up entirely for the purpose of discussion, but these are forums to support GDS as a company, and we're not going to run them in a manner that may lose us customers (and yes, I think the constant flame wars and insults from "under-modding" lose us a heck of a lot more customers than those who feel alienated by "over-modding).


Thanks for responding, I was half thinking, I'd be trashed and the thread would be closed.

I guess under-modding would be a bad idea also, but I think there should be a middle ground where while you guys don't just vanish, you won't do things that leave posters scratching there heads. (Closing threads with nothing wrong with them without explanation.) Besides, any bad apple can just be removed, Anubis was treated too fairly for his level of spamming and should have been banned sooner. But he is in a vast minority; most of us are civilized and intelligent and can hold a conversation without turning it into mindless arguing. We shouldn't have to pay for that idiot and not be able to talk amongst one another like the little community we have become.

At the very least, like many other member have suggested, a more detailed forum guideline should be made. Many times we break rules we don't even know exist.

Perhaps maybe a stickied "Off-Topic" thread may help when the members just want to joke around and act like idiots where anywhere else it would be considered spam.

I don't know about losing customers because of spammers. Many times in my early days here I left the boards because of spamming (I agree, years ago... esspecially fresh out of the .400 studios... it was bad here) but I always remained a fan of your games. You didn't personally attack me, what reason would I have to boycott your games. Until the day you personally attack me yourself, I won't feel like you aren't worth my money provided your games remain up to their standard. Everything else (community-wise) is just an annoyance at it's worst and a treat at it's best.

Wrestling Century
12-09-2009, 02:47 PM
Heck, even if Adam did personally attack me, I'd still buy his games! They are just too darn good! :p Back on topic, I wouldn't mind if things stayed the same, I would just personally like it better if more explicit rules were layed out.

AfRoMaN36
12-09-2009, 02:48 PM
Heck, even if Adam did personally attack me, I'd still buy his games! They are just too darn good! :p

Lol well not me, I'm stubborn. I protest with my pocket all the time, but it's always direct. I don't blame the farmer for the store selling me curdled milk.

MrCanada
12-09-2009, 03:05 PM
At first I agreed with Afo but then after reading Adam's post and this one I have to agree with what Adam has done here and what everyone that works for GDS has done. This group of core people at GDS is a great group of people. With that said Adam has in time gone out of his way to get right down in the "trenches" with us and take part in our everyday nutty stuff (IE. Mafia games...and also random wrestling related stuff.)


I'm going to call Adam Mr. Belding from now one. Trying to be cool with the kids.

Wallbanger
12-09-2009, 03:21 PM
At the very least, like many other member have suggested, a more detailed forum guideline should be made. Many times we break rules we don't even know exist.

On one hand I understand where this is coming from. But my experience has been that the more rules there are, the more rules-lawyers there are, and as a result limits the ability to allow for judgment calls. You then end up with zero tolerance policies that drive things to the point that no one even wants to mod because they're always modding and never getting to participate.

Perhaps I'm naive in thinking that basic netiquette and common sense shouldn't require pages of codification. *I* know why the Umaga thread was locked, and I agree with that judgment call. I may not always agree with the mod's judgment, and if I feel strongly enough about it, I'll *PM* the mod and offer my opinion, which the mod can consider and/or ignore, as is their prerogative. Arguing about it any further, or doing so publicly, is disrespectful to the host and likely to get you put on a shorter leash. Handling disagreements in a mature, respectful manner honors the host and that short leash never materializes because it's not needed.

Wrestling Century
12-09-2009, 03:53 PM
Who said that we are arguing? :confused: We are just making a suggestion.

BHK1978
12-09-2009, 05:04 PM
In my opinion Adam and company are not at all harsh as mods. On another website that I post on, they will delete your posts if you do not use proper punctuation or if you misspell words. And as someone who never bothers to read my posts until after I post them, you can imagine how many of my posts have been deleted.:D

Wrestling Century
12-09-2009, 05:10 PM
In my opinion Adam and company are not at all harsh as mods. On another website that I post on, they will delete your posts if you do not use proper punctuation or if you misspell words. And as someone who never bothers to read my posts until after I post them, you can imagine how many of my posts have been deleted.:D

Wow! :eek: I screw up in almost everyone of my posts! I would not fare well there!

shamelessposer
12-09-2009, 06:06 PM
*I* know why the Umaga thread was locked, and I agree with that judgment call.

Care to elaborate? It'd be just super if you could provide us with your thoughts on the subject, since so few people in this thread seem to share your insight.

Hive
12-09-2009, 07:42 PM
Care to elaborate? It'd be just super if you could provide us with your thoughts on the subject, since so few people in this thread seem to share your insight.

Indeed, I was very much wondering why that thread got locked. :confused:

tristram
12-09-2009, 11:55 PM
I'm assuming there was a comment we didn't see in relation to the Umaga thread, that seemed a little strange.

I've personally earned an infraction here for having a potty mouth, which is the only time I've received it. I probably do at times talk like a heathen, I've just never had that on another forum. Their policies, their rules though, so after initially being unhappy I suppose it's fair to say you just have to accept it and move on - same with closed threads. I feel the community (the posters), and the fun diaries on some excellent game platforms makes up for any perceived over-moderating.

shamelessposer
12-10-2009, 12:12 AM
I feel the community (the posters), and the fun diaries on some excellent game platforms makes up for any perceived over-moderating.

For the hojillionth time, my own complaint is not one of over-moderation. Grey Dog Software is entitled to set whatever rules and policies they want. If there was a "You may not post until you've added to the bible fire" rule, they'd be entitled to it. My problem is when threads are closed without comment so that it's impossible to even tell why the thread was closed. Ultimately, what I'm asking for is some level of transparency. If someone does wrong, they should be told what they've done wrong. Publicly. It saves the mod staff the trouble of sending out a private admonition every time someone crosses an invisible line.

tristram
12-10-2009, 12:25 AM
For the first time, I was not directly responding to you. It was a general comment in respect to the thread.

shamelessposer
12-10-2009, 12:42 AM
For the first time, I was not directly responding to you. It was a general comment in respect to the thread.

Gah! I'm sorry. I misread your post as a commentary on stuff I'd said upthread. Wasn't trying to come on too strong or anything, but I was trying to use X-treme emphasis to prove a point which you, um, don't seem to actually be arguing.

NickC13573
12-10-2009, 12:55 AM
I think I was reprimanded once for using a potty mouth in my second diary. I have tried to watch myself on some occasions

tristram
12-10-2009, 01:09 AM
Gah! I'm sorry. I misread your post as a commentary on stuff I'd said upthread. Wasn't trying to come on too strong or anything, but I was trying to use X-treme emphasis to prove a point which you, um, don't seem to actually be arguing.

heh, I know mate. It's all good.

Point well made and proven! :D

Hive
12-10-2009, 10:25 AM
Ultimately, what I'm asking for is some level of transparency. If someone does wrong, they should be told what they've done wrong. Publicly. It saves the mod staff the trouble of sending out a private admonition every time someone crosses an invisible line.

I definately agree.

"Knowing is half the battle."

AfRoMaN36
12-10-2009, 02:48 PM
On one hand I understand where this is coming from. But my experience has been that the more rules there are, the more rules-lawyers there are, and as a result limits the ability to allow for judgment calls. You then end up with zero tolerance policies that drive things to the point that no one even wants to mod because they're always modding and never getting to participate.

Yes, but judgment calls has the problem of making someone feel like they are being reprimanded for an unofficial rule that others seem to get away with. I'd much rather leave out the gray area and let it be an all or nothing kind of deal.


Perhaps I'm naive in thinking that basic netiquette and common sense shouldn't require pages of codification.

Yet, for every 10 Remi's there is 1 Anubis. If we want to have our cake and eat it too, we need the rules for that Anubis. Undermodding turns everyone into Anubis while over modding may bother the Remis (I'm not sure if it does, just using his name as an example) At least if we have the rules down, we know who is a spammer and who is not since then we'll have no excuse to break the rules. Those who do it anyway, don't belong here.

*I* know why the Umaga thread was locked, and I agree with that judgment call.

You'd be one of few then. I had no idea why it was closed, conversations were still very much about Umaga. Though it had evolved from shock of his death to reactions of the news coverage of it. It was still for the most part, on-topic. If anyone did go off-topic, they should have just been told to stop.

darthsiddus2
12-10-2009, 03:14 PM
I think the thread got close due to the dangerous topic of drugs........ even though it was on topic that one is kinda dangerous to talk about since a lot of people have strong opinions about it.... plus I think that Adam (or his mods) didn't want it to get out of hand before it started

AfRoMaN36
12-10-2009, 05:42 PM
I think the thread got close due to the dangerous topic of drugs........ even though it was on topic that one is kinda dangerous to talk about since a lot of people have strong opinions about it.... plus I think that Adam (or his mods) didn't want it to get out of hand before it started

That would make no sense whatsoever if that were the case. In Adams games, wrestlers die of drug overdoses all the time. It's the nature of the industry Adam tries to immitate and the nature that were used to as fans. It would make virtually no sense at all to close the thread on that basis esspecially since the drug use was that of a wrestler.

And as far as closing a thread because of a chance of an arguement, I don't see the point in that either. Why prosecute someone of a crime they've yet to commit?

PeterHilton
12-10-2009, 06:26 PM
And as far as closing a thread because of a chance of an arguement, I don't see the point in that either. Why prosecute someone of a crime they've yet to commit?

Being a little overly dramatic aren't we?

In order to avoid problems some of the mods are probably closing threads that they think "might" go sideways.

It'd be nice if they could be more implicit, but the purpose of this board isn't really to host off-topic discussions, so maybe it's not that big a deal.

djthefunkchris
12-10-2009, 09:01 PM
This didn't get locked.
HA

I would imagine that's because no one is really fussing. Although we might dissagree with each other on this subject, there is nothing to really get bent out of shape with. I've never seen Afroman have a problem with the boards, if he has, I missed it. Someone that has been posting a good while, and although his choice in woman seem a bit "tiresome" to me, I find him to be a very interesting if not complicated poster. In other words, most people either respect him, or relate to him.

Although I dissagree (for example), I'd be lieing if I said I didn't understand his point. Perhaps a few generations later he will understand some of ours (I'm talking about Wallbanger, really..> he's like ancient).

I'm sure even the mods think the same way about him. Not someone you would really want to tick off, as he's never out to tick anyone else off. So it's best we discuss it, and even if he doesn't get the results (and other's that feel somewhat the same), he gets it off his chest. Which is sometimes needed for people to do from time to time. Getting things off your chest by directly confronting it head-on is also admireable (as long as your tactfull, in which he was). There was no feeling of yelling or anything like that from him... Bassically, all he's saying is "Am I the only one that has a problem with this?" Honestly, it seems about 50/50. So no... He's not the only one.

AfRoMaN36
12-10-2009, 10:55 PM
Being a little overly dramatic aren't we?

In order to avoid problems some of the mods are probably closing threads that they think "might" go sideways.

Ah... Peter Hilton. My old arch nemesis. Whenever an opinion of mine went up, you were always right behind me to disagree. Today is no different apparently. :D

And while it may come off as a tad 'dramatic' to compare a forum to a judicial system, I still think it fits. Hot button threads aren't always going to end up in senseless shouting matches so I don't think they should all be closed prematurely.

It'd be nice if they could be more implicit, but the purpose of this board isn't really to host off-topic discussions, so maybe it's not that big a deal.


The Dog Pound (6 Viewing)
Off topic area. Come inside and join the fun!

The sites not centered around off topic discussion, but this forum is.

This didn't get locked.
HA

I'm surprised too to be honest, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did soon as it is starting to run its course. I've gotten my point across so I wouldn't mind either.

I would imagine that's because no one is really fussing. Although we might dissagree with each other on this subject, there is nothing to really get bent out of shape with. I've never seen Afroman have a problem with the boards, if he has, I missed it. Someone that has been posting a good while, and although his choice in woman seem a bit "tiresome" to me, I find him to be a very interesting if not complicated poster. In other words, most people either respect him, or relate to him.

Although I dissagree (for example), I'd be lieing if I said I didn't understand his point. Perhaps a few generations later he will understand some of ours (I'm talking about Wallbanger, really..> he's like ancient).

I'm sure even the mods think the same way about him. Not someone you would really want to tick off, as he's never out to tick anyone else off. So it's best we discuss it, and even if he doesn't get the results (and other's that feel somewhat the same), he gets it off his chest. Which is sometimes needed for people to do from time to time. Getting things off your chest by directly confronting it head-on is also admireable (as long as your tactfull, in which he was). There was no feeling of yelling or anything like that from him... Bassically, all he's saying is "Am I the only one that has a problem with this?" Honestly, it seems about 50/50. So no... He's not the only one.

Why thanks for the kind words dj. I always just felt like I was merely tolerated than respected but nice to hear I'm actually thought of so well.

MrCanada
12-10-2009, 11:01 PM
Well anytime you have a "community" and they raise an issue and talk about civily, why stop that discussion? Regardless of where it goes?

PeterHilton
12-10-2009, 11:08 PM
And while it may come off as a tad 'dramatic' to compare a forum to a judicial system, I still think it fits. Hot button threads aren't always going to end up in senseless shouting matches so I don't think they should all be closed prematurely.

If you were a software company, using a message board as a way to help develop the game, and you had a totally superfluous off-topic section (more as a favor to long time customers, because it serves no real purpose), and you've already seen a bunch of prospective customers run off your site by pointless flame wars, what's the smarter thing to do:

A) Nip things in the bud to make sure things don't get out hand?

or

B) Allow topics to play themselves out naturally and risk people getting upset/offended/ostracized out of some bizarre sense of 'freedom of expression'?

Besides, reading through the topic, most people aren't even bothered by the topics getting close, but by the way the moderators are communicating.

Astil
12-10-2009, 11:16 PM
Some people feel a thread shouldn't have been closed, but understand why it might be. Other people think the thread should've been closed when it was, but understand why some people would want it to continue.

Civility in MY Internet?

It's more common then you may think.

jbergey_2005
12-11-2009, 12:08 AM
I dont come to the Dog Pound as much anymore however I dont think it is because of how the thread is being modded. In my opinion after a few posts the discussion always seems to go the same general direction.

For example a topic about the WWE will also result in "boring, how can you watch, same booking, Cena sucks, what a lame storyline, Triple H is overused"

A topic about TNA "Why did they change what they were doing, booking sucks, Russo is a tool, bring back the X-division"

I guess I can understand why the topics dont get much room to maneuver.

Some people like to control the topic in which it will always stray that direction.

If the wrestling topics were eliminated it would likely be peaceful here most of the time.

AfRoMaN36
12-11-2009, 01:08 AM
If you were a software company, using a message board as a way to help develop the game, and you had a totally superfluous off-topic section (more as a favor to long time customers, because it serves no real purpose), and you've already seen a bunch of prospective customers run off your site by pointless flame wars, what's the smarter thing to do:

A) Nip things in the bud to make sure things don't get out hand?

or

B) Allow topics to play themselves out naturally and risk people getting upset/offended/ostracized out of some bizarre sense of 'freedom of expression'?

Besides, reading through the topic, most people aren't even bothered by the topics getting close, but by the way the moderators are communicating.


I never quite understood the mindset of "If a board member insults me, I will no longer be a customer to the company he's posting in." Sure he might have stopped posting, but I question as to whether or not he actually stopped buying. Otherwise, I don't see a connection. I've been insulted numerous times on these boards as have so many other members, I highly doubt most of them would even make the connection between "Anubis calling me a bad name" to "Adams never getting a cent out of me again!" I'm still certain most if not all board members who left because of one bad apple are still customers unless they eventually became unhappy with Adams quality of games. If some belligerent idiot (a customer) yells at you inside of your favorite store, do they lose your business? Even when the belligerent idiot was then taken care of and removed?

I totally understand the mindset that half the people commenting are putting forward and I do partially agree. This was a bonus to begin with and is not the main focus of the site. I still feel like there are other, more sensible options to explore before totally shutting down anything that might be perceived as offensive. There is a middle ground that will please everyone here and we should be able to find it.

PeterHilton
12-11-2009, 01:41 AM
I never quite understood the mindset of "If a board member insults me, I will no longer be a customer to the company he's posting in." Sure he might have stopped posting, but I question as to whether or not he actually stopped buying. Otherwise, I don't see a connection. I've been insulted numerous times on these boards as have so many other members, I highly doubt most of them would even make the connection between "Anubis calling me a bad name" to "Adams never getting a cent out of me again!" I'm still certain most if not all board members who left because of one bad apple are still customers unless they eventually became unhappy with Adams quality of games. If some belligerent idiot (a customer) yells at you inside of your favorite store, do they lose your business? Even when the belligerent idiot was then taken care of and removed?

Listen, just because YOU don't see the connection doesn't mean the connection isn't there.

How irritated would you be to hear customers tell you they're never coming back because of some flame war in the totally optional unnecessary off topic section? Or would you just blow it off by telling yourself "oh well they won't visit the site because they've been offended but it's cool because Im sure they'll still buy our games. It's all good" Really?

How often would that need to happen before you got a little overly cautious?

To extend your little metaphor: this is a store. The people on these boards are customers.

They want to protect their customers and make sure they have a good experience while they're here.

Sometimes that means protecting the customers from each other.

Forget removing the beligerent idiot...what about working a little harder to make sure the beligerent idiot isn't yelling at people to begin with...

AfRoMaN36
12-11-2009, 05:40 AM
Listen, just because YOU don't see the connection doesn't mean the connection isn't there.

How irritated would you be to hear customers tell you they're never coming back because of some flame war in the totally optional unnecessary off topic section? Or would you just blow it off by telling yourself "oh well they won't visit the site because they've been offended but it's cool because Im sure they'll still buy our games. It's all good" Really?

How often would that need to happen before you got a little overly cautious?

To extend your little metaphor: this is a store. The people on these boards are customers.

They want to protect their customers and make sure they have a good experience while they're here.

Sometimes that means protecting the customers from each other.

Forget removing the beligerent idiot...what about working a little harder to make sure the beligerent idiot isn't yelling at people to begin with...

Then where does it end? Where's the line where protecting an asset doesn't mean overdoing it? Maybe I'm being a tad dramatic but as I see it, people can become offended by literally anything. A slight overmodding now can become insane overmodding overtime. First it's threads where it MAY offend people based on the subject than what's next? Were pushing a "G" environment in a place where the games sold are pretty mature in content. Will thus change because wrestlers are dying of drug overdoses in game?

And I wasn't suggesting that Adam "forget" the people who left the boards. I'm just wondering out-loud if they physically approached Adam himself and told him they would never buy his games again due to spamming on his board. Because if that is the case, than that is very displaced anger. I doubt that is what happened rather than just assuming they aren't buying anymore because they left the boards. However if Adam does say otherwise, I take back this point.

It's not like I'm suggesting martial-law Peter. Just the abillity to hold a conversraion like the one were having now. It's unessesary for them to grant us the right; but I think the majority have proven the capability to have the right. And should a problem arise, don't let it go further. Pm a mod, they're very efficient in eliminating problems and it's far less rash than taking your ball and going home.

Derek B
12-11-2009, 07:45 AM
I like this discussion, though it's a bit silly. And now to compare the GDS forums to a full grown country in an effort to point out how silly this is. :p

So... the forums are a country(GDSland), ruled over by the mods (a self appointed dictatorship! :p) for their people (most of us). All of these people have their different interests but all live in the same place and must follow the same rules (the law of the GDSland).

The laws, as with most good countries, need to protect the most people possible from potential harm while hopefully being allowed to be as liberal as possible in order to allow as much cultural growth (people posting within the rules) as possible. And ultimately, all of this culture should encourage GDS to be able to tax the bejeezus out of us (sell games).

What this effectively means is that there is a balance in stopping corruption (negative posting habits) vs encouraging culture, in order to maximise taxes. There are rules in place to generally stop the bad things and these need to be kept to as few as possible in order to encourage good posting and make a fun community for all of us to live in and hopefully be taxed on. Add too many rules and you get lawyers, and arguments and courts and prison... and nobody wants lawyers.

There will always be a conservative vs liberal type debate on where the line should be drawn (the moderating in this case)... Afroman is on the liberal side of things while Peter Hlton is more on the conservative side of things... and both are right, in a way. But ultimately, the way to upset the fewest people is the one that will ALWAYS win out as it's by definition the more popular choice and as such, the more conservative approach will win. It's better for GDS to err on the side of caution, as any loss of taxes hurts them (people leaving the site, it DOES happen) if they fail to act.

Personally, I'm a liberal person in real life but when it comes to the forums I tone it down. We are all citizens of GDSland and have to realise that the forums come first and is bigger than any one of us. The rules don't need to explicitly state everything we can or can't do as that would end up with huge rulebooks of stuff, which nobody wants.

General policy is to keep things on topic and to keep things as accurate as possible within the context of that. Some threads wander so far off topic that they don't make sense any more... others can end up dragging unprovable things in and then cease to be a relevant discussion. And yet others are just based on things that are illegal in the first place, like piracy or drugs or stuff like that. And we always need to keep the peace, so flame wars, controversial topics and similar things come up, they tend to get closed early as there is a track record of them turning bad and perhaps putting a dent in the tax revenue.

Ultimately, I love the forums here. I've tried visiting other forums but there is so much crap that I end up giving up on them in short order. For every 1 good thread elsewhere there are 10 bad ones. In GDS, thanks to some good moderating which has helped to build a very smart community, there are 10 good threads for every bad one. This makes me very happy, as I doubt I'd ever be able to make a post like this one anywhere else. :)

AfRoMaN36
12-11-2009, 08:36 AM
I like this discussion, though it's a bit silly. And now to compare the GDS forums to a full grown country in an effort to point out how silly this is. :p

So... the forums are a country(GDSland), ruled over by the mods (a self appointed dictatorship! :p) for their people (most of us). All of these people have their different interests but all live in the same place and must follow the same rules (the law of the GDSland).

The laws, as with most good countries, need to protect the most people possible from potential harm while hopefully being allowed to be as liberal as possible in order to allow as much cultural growth (people posting within the rules) as possible. And ultimately, all of this culture should encourage GDS to be able to tax the bejeezus out of us (sell games).

What this effectively means is that there is a balance in stopping corruption (negative posting habits) vs encouraging culture, in order to maximise taxes. There are rules in place to generally stop the bad things and these need to be kept to as few as possible in order to encourage good posting and make a fun community for all of us to live in and hopefully be taxed on. Add too many rules and you get lawyers, and arguments and courts and prison... and nobody wants lawyers.

There will always be a conservative vs liberal type debate on where the line should be drawn (the moderating in this case)... Afroman is on the liberal side of things while Peter Hlton is more on the conservative side of things... and both are right, in a way. But ultimately, the way to upset the fewest people is the one that will ALWAYS win out as it's by definition the more popular choice and as such, the more conservative approach will win. It's better for GDS to err on the side of caution, as any loss of taxes hurts them (people leaving the site, it DOES happen) if they fail to act.

Personally, I'm a liberal person in real life but when it comes to the forums I tone it down. We are all citizens of GDSland and have to realise that the forums come first and is bigger than any one of us. The rules don't need to explicitly state everything we can or can't do as that would end up with huge rulebooks of stuff, which nobody wants.

General policy is to keep things on topic and to keep things as accurate as possible within the context of that. Some threads wander so far off topic that they don't make sense any more... others can end up dragging unprovable things in and then cease to be a relevant discussion. And yet others are just based on things that are illegal in the first place, like piracy or drugs or stuff like that. And we always need to keep the peace, so flame wars, controversial topics and similar things come up, they tend to get closed early as there is a track record of them turning bad and perhaps putting a dent in the tax revenue.

Ultimately, I love the forums here. I've tried visiting other forums but there is so much crap that I end up giving up on them in short order. For every 1 good thread elsewhere there are 10 bad ones. In GDS, thanks to some good moderating which has helped to build a very smart community, there are 10 good threads for every bad one. This makes me very happy, as I doubt I'd ever be able to make a post like this one anywhere else. :)

And have people actually read it and respond with insight.

I love these forums because of the level
of intellect here. I love debating with you folks and seeing all the different point of views from different backgrounds, upbringings and countries. That is why I posted this; because I don't want to lose it. However upon seeing that I am able to vent and have this thread open for so long I can see that I can live with this although sailing it back just a pinch wouldn't hurt to where certain topics are still kosher depending on us showing we can handle
it. I suppose well need to re-earn that trust which I don't mind. I trust the mental capacity of my fellow GDSers to Debate civily and respectfully. Something I couldn't say in any other
forum.

And that is exactly why I like this place.

Self
12-11-2009, 08:58 AM
Maybe it's because censorship has weeded out a lot of bad apples, or maybe it's just because TEW in and of itself attracts a more mature, intellectual audience, but there are lot of folks on here I'd love to have discussions with when it comes to all manner of subjects, from "How much do the Dudebusters rule?" to "Should gay marriage be legalised?". Just to name two off the top of my head, Remianen and djthefunkchris are very different from me in so many ways, that it's always interesting to read their opinions.

I understand why mods are a tad trigger happy with closing down controversial topics, but it bums me out. My friends, family and collegues are fine folks, occasionally up for debate, but I don't get the the variance of experience and opinions as I could here. Plus most of them hate wrestling.

I don't see the need for transparency in the rules. It's Adam's board. He can do what he wants. I don't like it, but who am I? Practically no one. The state of this board has no impact on whether I'll buy the games (still not 100% sold on 2010 though ;) ).

PeterHilton
12-11-2009, 11:40 AM
Then where does it end? Where's the line where protecting an asset doesn't mean overdoing it?

You're definitely being overdramatic.

The line is crossed when they start "over-modding" a section of the boards that is actually relevant to the game itself.

And I wasn't suggesting that Adam "forget" the people who left the boards. I'm just wondering out-loud if they physically approached Adam himself and told him they would never buy his games again due to spamming on his board. Because if that is the case, than that is very displaced anger. I doubt that is what happened rather than just assuming they aren't buying anymore because they left the boards. However if Adam does say otherwise, I take back this point.

Who cares whether you think it would be 'displaced anger'. As a business, it would be stupid for GDS to risk making their customer base angry.

Customer is always right etc...

Again, why would a for-profit software company risk potential sales for the sake of granting more freedom to a part of the board that really doesn't serve a vital purpose?

It's not like I'm suggesting martial-law Peter. Just the abillity to hold a conversraion like the one were having now. It's unessesary for them to grant us the right; but I think the majority have proven the capability to have the right. And should a problem arise, don't let it go further. Pm a mod, they're very efficient in eliminating problems and it's far less rash than taking your ball and going home.

Not a right. A privilege. I've already stated what I believe:

For the people here who fele the mods should be more 'transparent,' I totally get that and I can understand why they would like to at least know why threads were closed. Completely understandable. I don't think you'll like the answers most of the time, but you want to know why.

But if your beef is that you think the mods should allow potentially troublesome threads to continue because they should trust the maturity of the members of the site: why? what's in it for GDS? what would a 30 page thread on abortion really do to benefit the company? The risk outweighs the rewards.

The already allow an incredible amount of freedom on the site: with data, with the characters Adam has created, by allowing an entire section devoted to mafia games the board finds interesting, by actually giving feedback and even sometimes incorporating the suggestions people post...

The fact an off-topic section even exists is a show of how much they appreciate the community as a whole.

If you want to talk about stuff that GDS might close so badly go start your own message board.

praguepride
12-11-2009, 12:09 PM
The fact an off-topic section even exists is a show of how much they appreciate the community as a whole.

If you want to talk about stuff that GDS might close so badly go start your own message board.

Definitely. However minimal, it requires resources on GDS's part to keep these forums running, so frankly considering I'm blogging on GDS's dime, they can censor all they want. It's the internet, there's no universal law for freedom of speech. On these forums you're on GDS's domain.

If you think they're being overmodded, I'd suggest trying to talk to them privately about why topics are being closed rather then opening up a new rant about how censorship is destroying the internet blah blah blah.

Be thankful for what you have because the internet is a privelage, not a right :D

BurningHamster
12-11-2009, 01:14 PM
This discussion is lame. Somebody close it. :p

Closed topics annoy people, usually those whose viewpoint just got critiqued and had not had a chance to respond yet. Lack of explanation annoys people too, but seriously ... most discussions on the internet are not as original or unpredictable as those involved in them seem to think so a sensible mod can kind of see where there is potential for trouble. I got no problem with that even though I am usually the kind of guy who will not listen to rules, can be opinionated and hate being told what I can and can't say. Fact is, we can talk about whatever we want ... just not here.

This is a forum for and about sports sim games, we don't really need to be discussing the meaning of life, politics, religion, drugs etc here. I like GDS being a place where you don't have to see all of that stuff because quite frankly, it gets freaking boring, has the potential to offend people and really GDS has nothing to gain and everything to lose by allowing it.

Adam Ryland
12-11-2009, 01:58 PM
Closed as it has run its course.