Dear Mafia Game Mods

[djthefunkchris]

A little bit of professional criticism, not to be taken as if you don't know, or I know something you don't, but just a reminder for all of us:

I just want to say that certain people are always going to be investigated in every game (I'm one it seems). To not have a way to protect these people when scum, you might as well just figure them out of the equation from the start as far as balancing is concerned, no matter how the ability works. If your one to normally have this covered unless there are other abilities/things at work, that provide just as much power, this doesn't really concern you or your mod.

I haven't played nearly as much as I'd like to..> Mostly because of real life getting in the way, but I have to admit something. Alot of it has to do with if I'm scum at anytime in a game, I'm going to be found out within' the first couple of phases. When I am scum, I try as hard as I can, but I never really can get wholely in it, because I've always got that over my head. There are other's I'm sure of that feel the same way, or I wouldn't bother writing this now. The funnest games for me when scum have always been the one's when my team has a way to fight against strong investigative players. In other words, if we choose wisely, and they don't... we have a chance of NOT being found out to be scum, which is in itself a check and balance I don't believe people/mods have been taking as seriously as they should.

BALANCE: It's not just about numbers. We have to give whichever team a fighting chance. If there is a vigilante, scum need a protector. If there is an investigator, scum need a framer with backwards abilities. IF scum can kill, the town needs a protector, etc... If you have two scum groups, there still needs to be these things going on.... UNLESS they can recruit/cults. Cults don't need it normally, especially if they can recruit most of the players (not necessarily all, but a majority). If they are limited up to a certain number or certain one's.... then they will need it as well, but then that's not really a cult.

Just think tit for tat. You cannot count on non-member's to make up for it (ie:SK). Probably Derek_b played the best SK I ever seen in a game I played... meaning he took out all the right townies..... In the game where we really needed it to happen. THAT NEVER NORMALLY HAPPENS. So you can't count on it.

This goes back and forward.... If Scum can do A, the town needs to be able to block A, if Town can do B, then scum needs to be able to block B.

For further notes, see Imarevenant/IER games

Thankyou for your attention on this matter.

[moon_lit_tears]

Don't get me wrong on this, but I don't see how it's fair to take a role and make it work for a player.

I thought it's the player makes the role work for them.

I just don't see why a mod has to change something because a player gets looked at a lot. Doesn't make sense to me.

[BHK1978]

Originally Posted by moon_lit_tears

Don't get me wrong on this, but I don't see how it's fair to take a role and make it work for a player.

I thought it's the player makes the role work for them.

I just don't see why a mod has to change something because a player gets looked at a lot. Doesn't make sense to me.

I agree with this. There is a reason why you get investigated every game DJ because you are a good player. The one time I was Scum with you, you provided me with insight that I have never had before (granted I never get to use it because I am always town). I guess what I am saying is you can't be a good player and not be investigated the two things kind of go hand and hand.

[i effin rule]

At the end of the day, in the immortal words of outlaw, "mods mod and players play".


That is why we do RNG to determine roles. The roles are made to balance the game. If we start changing things to "help" certain players then it could throw the entire game out of whack. You may as well just assign the roles to the players you want.

[i effin rule]

Originally Posted by i effin rule

At the end of the day, in the immortal words of outlaw, "mods mod and players play".


That is why we do RNG to determine roles. The roles are made to balance the game. If we start changing things to "help" certain players then it could throw the entire game out of whack. You may as well just assign the roles to the players you want.

*Forgot to add this.


But yes, every role needs a counter measure and every "power" ability should have some type of weak point. Specifically for SK's. There should be some conceivable way for them to win. Trackers/PGO's/Bulletproof are their mortal enemies, so they need some way to avoid them.

We've tried the Bounty Hunter store, the Sith/SK, and we keep tweaking. Who knows what you'll see next

But yes, every scum ability should be counterable or a counter to another ability. Same with town.

[djthefunkchris]

Originally Posted by i effin rule

*Forgot to add this.


But yes, every role needs a counter measure and every "power" ability should have some type of weak point. Specifically for SK's. There should be some conceivable way for them to win. Trackers/PGO's/Bulletproof are their mortal enemies, so they need some way to avoid them.

We've tried the Bounty Hunter store, the Sith/SK, and we keep tweaking. Who knows what you'll see next

But yes, every scum ability should be counterable or a counter to another ability. Same with town.

THANKYOU! THat's the point I was trying to make!!

[GruntMark]

Originally Posted by i effin rule

*Forgot to add this.


But yes, every role needs a counter measure and every "power" ability should have some type of weak point. Specifically for SK's. There should be some conceivable way for them to win. Trackers/PGO's/Bulletproof are their mortal enemies, so they need some way to avoid them.

We've tried the Bounty Hunter store, the Sith/SK, and we keep tweaking. Who knows what you'll see next

But yes, every scum ability should be counterable or a counter to another ability. Same with town.

It wasnt an accident that the "merc" was basically borrowed.

[theoutlaw321]

Originally Posted by i effin rule

At the end of the day, in the immortal words of outlaw, "mods mod and players play".

[masterded]

Originally Posted by theoutlaw321

Its a g-g-g-g-g-g-ghost!

[Wallbanger]

Originally Posted by theoutlaw321

Dude!

[djthefunkchris]

Originally Posted by moon_lit_tears

Don't get me wrong on this, but I don't see how it's fair to take a role and make it work for a player.

I thought it's the player makes the role work for them.

I just don't see why a mod has to change something because a player gets looked at a lot. Doesn't make sense to me.

As far as balance is concerned, you have to look at it from all angles. I don't think your getting out of it what I'm talking about to be honest. I'm not talking about "making" a role work for a player. I'm talking in more general terms reguarding balance. The first part is me explaining a little burn-out... mind you this can go both ways.

For example, Burn out option 2: Your a good townie, and scum kill your by day 3 every game for three or four years. Not fun after about year two.

I was town last game, and lasted the whole game without being bullet proof/etc. I'm not trying to complain here, although I certainly see how it can look that way.

I'm talking ying and yang... for every action there needs to be a re-action available. You have to consider what would happen is "X" dies night 1.... meaning you can't count on any singular ability to balance out the game for you. You have to look at them all together, and also in a "what-if" stance. What if Ability "A" is gone night 1? What if Ability A, B, and C are gone by night three. The town abilities can have place-holders/enablers, etc... for when the main ability dies, scum don't really have that, but they have each other and each other's abilities. If they aren't enough, it's certainly possible to still pull off a win, but that doesn't mean it's balanced. They have to be able to protect themselves just as much as the town can protect themselves. Now, by that I don't mean if the town has three protector's, that the scum should have three as well... not at all. Or if the town has three Vig's then the scum should have three protector's... not at all.

I mean, for every ability that the town does have, the scum need a way to prevent that ability from destroying them.

Example of "Unbalanced" Game: Town has two protector's and an investigator. Scum don't have a way to prevent them from getting a scum result. Scum get's a kill... Investigator is protected, and for three phases scum has no way to get rid of the investigator (they are protected), or longer if they have no idea who the protector's are (they haven't hinted or anything). Scum is at a diss-advantage for that game.

Example of "Balanced" game: Town has three investigator's, three protector's. Scum have a kill, and a framer/backwards framer. Now, they have a chance to protect at least one of their member's from being outed, and can work on getting rid of the investigator's. At least in this way they have an effective way to "block" the investigation if they choose wisely. The other way, they have absolutely NO chance at all.

NOW, an SK might make a difference, but quite often the SK DOES out themselves or at least out the fact they aren't town... meaning they don't last long alot of times, so it's really not going to help the scum out (they have around a 33% chance of killing scum as well).

Re-read what I'm saying there, and don't think about it in a personal way, or my personal thoughts about ME... think of it as a generic/overall thought.

[djthefunkchris]

Originally Posted by moon_lit_tears

Don't get me wrong on this, but I don't see how it's fair to take a role and make it work for a player.

I thought it's the player makes the role work for them.

I just don't see why a mod has to change something because a player gets looked at a lot. Doesn't make sense to me.

Originally Posted by BHK1978

I agree with this. There is a reason why you get investigated every game DJ because you are a good player. The one time I was Scum with you, you provided me with insight that I have never had before (granted I never get to use it because I am always town). I guess what I am saying is you can't be a good player and not be investigated the two things kind of go hand and hand.

Originally Posted by i effin rule

At the end of the day, in the immortal words of outlaw, "mods mod and players play".


That is why we do RNG to determine roles. The roles are made to balance the game. If we start changing things to "help" certain players then it could throw the entire game out of whack. You may as well just assign the roles to the players you want.

I'm not talking about ME personally guys. I'm talking in general terms of balance.... and IER, I've never played an unbalanced game that you modded, or was part mod of..... so it's not like I can debate you at all.

That's not the point I was trying to make, and I guess maybe I should give up, because it doesn't look like I'm able to get the point accross I wanted to. I hate the way I'm sounding right now, because I feel like MJD, lol.

I'm not saying "Make the roles to suit the player" in a personal way.