Looking for Multi-game player(s)

[Makhai]

Wanted to throw this out there. Never gotten to play a TEW Multiplayer game before. Figured I'd throw it to the board see what kind responses I got. I don't really care what mod we play, or scenario just as long as it hasn't been beaten to death.

I'd prefer it to stay fictional. But only because the ratings of RW mods are so over-inflated. CPU TNA is pulling B+ PPVs. I get it you like 2008 ROH; they're only doing 7k buys a show IRL... Come on, son. I mean if AJ Styles is B+ Overness, than what the hell was Hulk Hogan in 1986? ∞*? No context, just unrepentant fanaticism. The current TNA is pulling Ds, with the odd C- tossed in and it's got zero overness anywhere.... because none of their guys are over (Besides maybe Hardy and Roode to a MUCH lesser extent)and it's an entertainment/popularity co. Also the WWE should only be doing low Bs if they book it right, and they should be in decline. You know, like they actually are. Nobody in the US besides maybe John Cena, and maybe Zack Ryder(if you want to be snarky) is an A-level pop guy. That's it.

The RW US wrestling business is in the toilet, not the penthouse like they all seem to think... I'm not taking a crap on the modmaker's effort, just laying the cards on the table about the inevitable boredom that always hits me after the second PPV when I realize I could randomize the whole card and it would still do a B-. But I digress.

Anywho, I only have a few rules I'd require.

First: I'd like to get through about an in-game month, per week. So, that's an activity requirement. And it gets steeper as we add guys. So, if we're going to do a 4-man game. Have lots of free time.

Second: No min-maxing. I'm not an excel spreadsheet kinda guy. I'm fine if you are a bit of a math nerd and have logical storyline/build-up reasons for the things you are doing. But if you're using Jack Avatar 16 times/card because he's free and he'll train all of your guys up. I would prefer you looked elsewhere for a multi-game.

Third: I may end up doing a diary, been kicking it around in my head for a while to do one but I never seem to find the right promotion/story idea to run with. So I'd prefer we did this serious, even if you don't want in on the diary. In short, try not to break kayfabe. Pretty please.

Forth: Poaching to a minimum. I'm not saying we can't steal guys. Or that we can't drive up the price. But let's not make 90% of the game staring at a Jack Bruce contract screen.

Fifth: For Cult+ games: 5 written per month maximum. You want to sign more than that P.P.A is unlimited. Obvious exceptions are if you are adding a division or have a good storyline reason. If we're both below Cult and can't offer written deals, I would like to think card and money limitations for these levels would be a big enough deterrent to indy snach-and-grabs.

Lastly, I'm not sure how letter/numbers mod's work with multi-games. But just to be upfront, I like as much fog of war as possible. So only letters, but I'd be willing to budge if it's the only dealbreaker.

P.S. This is supposed to be fun. Let's try and have fun. Let's try and tell great stories. Let's only try and increase each other's fun. I would prefer this to be a good long-term game. Maybe something we can still be playing when TEW 201? comes out... I can dream.

If you're interested, reply. Then we can kick-around ideas.

[Makhai]

Hey, someone rated this one-star... considering, basically the entire second paragraph, I can't be too surprised, really.

[jhd1]

Originally Posted by Makhai

Hey, someone rated this one-star... considering, basically the entire second paragraph, I can't be too surprised, really.

Someone (or a group of someones) goes around one-starring everything regardless of its content, I wouldn't take it personally.

[Makhai]

Originally Posted by jhd1

Someone (or a group of someones) goes around one-starring everything regardless of its content, I wouldn't take it personally.

I know all about the one-star bandits... I just wish to believe that it was Hyde Hill...

[Derek B]

I wish I could find out who gives star ratings to threads but my powers as mod don't extend far enough to find out.

That said, I think the tone of the first post is likely to have scared some people away from wanting to play with you. Stats are always pretty hard to get right in the first place, which is perhaps why the Cornellverse is so successful as the stats simply can't be "wrong" since we know nothing about the workers involved. If you'd just posted "I'm looking for a Cornellverse multiplayer game for up to 4 people, extremel active players required" then you'd likely already have a half dozen people signing up. Multiplayer games are a lot of fun as I know from experience and finding the right person to play with can be difficult (not everyone agrees with my play, just as I don't agree with everyone's play) and your original post has probably given some people the impression that you might be hard work to play with.

But I do hope you find someone, a good multiplayer game can completely revitalise the way you play the game. One of my favourite games was as USPW vs someone playing TCW... think it was TEW08 and it was an awesome game.

[Makhai]

Originally Posted by Derek B

I wish I could find out who gives star ratings to threads but my powers as mod don't extend far enough to find out.

That said, I think the tone of the first post is likely to have scared some people away from wanting to play with you. Stats are always pretty hard to get right in the first place, which is perhaps why the Cornellverse is so successful as the stats simply can't be "wrong" since we know nothing about the workers involved. If you'd just posted "I'm looking for a Cornellverse multiplayer game for up to 4 people, extremel active players required" then you'd likely already have a half dozen people signing up. Multiplayer games are a lot of fun as I know from experience and finding the right person to play with can be difficult (not everyone agrees with my play, just as I don't agree with everyone's play) and your original post has probably given some people the impression that you might be hard work to play with.

But I do hope you find someone, a good multiplayer game can completely revitalise the way you play the game. One of my favourite games was as USPW vs someone playing TCW... think it was TEW08 and it was an awesome game.

That was kinda the point. I don't want to play with just anybody. I want to play with someone who wants to get similar things out of it. I mean, I know under the hood this is a giant number crunch. But I don't want to open the hood. I like the fantasy, for the most part. If nobody feels similarly... I'll just stay solo. That's ok too.

As for the mod comments. Some people love the restrained lazy small town life. Others would go crazy if a bum didn't ask them for change on the train to work everyday. Different Strokes. But I feel people needed to know what they were up against before posting "yeah, you play WWE, I'll play TNA in NPR' 12."

But I still wanted to leave it on the table so if somebody came up with something inspired, I could reserve the right to change my mind.

[Derek B]

I don't mind the comments on expectations, I like to know what I'm getting into beforehand too and in one of my othre favourite multiplayer games there was a big ruleset similar to yours... it was myself, Astil and Self playing the 3 WWE brands and a lot of fun was had with the rules we gave ourselves. Was intended as a sorta test of some NWA type rules but the game itself was much fun.

It's just the tone and rantiness of it that has likely scared people off. People like rules (check out the Road To Glory challenge for a great example of rules) and knowing them up front can help to get the game you want. But the rant on the nature of mods and stats comes across very negatively, which isn't a good way to attract other players to you. I agree with most of what you say actually though these thoughts should be taken separately from the rest so new paragraph time....

I would argue that you under-rate TNA a bit, but not as much as I tend to see TNA be over-rated. TNA is a cult sized company at the smaller end of the scale during a time where wrestling is low and the economy is low too. I would argue their product is "rated more on populariaty than performance" whlie the WWE is "rated much more on popularity than performance". That would give TNA the chance to shine with some great performances but still have them mostly relying on stars. John Cena is probably the only person I'd set in the real world to have A level popularity, though I might argue a case for The Undertaker (who I'd also argue is retired so not even a factor now). Zack Ryder wouldn't get above a C+ in popularity in any mod I made and I think that would still be very generous coming from me.

Meanwhile in TNA, I'd be looking at the levels the game describes people at. Up to 50/D+ earns you the label "Indy Star" which is where the likes of Austin Aries/Christopher Daniels/Kazarian would get. It's higher than I think I'd set it but the label is there but that's the level it's at. AJ Styles/Bully Ray would be about a grade higher than that (C-), Storm/Roode/RVD/Sting a stage higher (C) before TNA's top guys grade out in the B-/B range with Jeff Hardy and Kurt Angle. Hogan, their other big name was once an A* back in the late 80s/early 90s... but that was then. Now I'd argue a case for him to be anywhere between B (80ish) and C (60ish) depending on my modd on the day. High charisma, above average mic skills, terrible acting, mid range star quality... star quality and being popular are not the same thing. Mick Foley has great charisma but terrible star quality becaue he doesn't look, sound, act or in any way stand out as a star. He still got over, but that doesn't mean he has star quality.

Anywho... that aside if a mod rated the TNA roster the way I would then I think the company would end up with fairly regular C- to C+ rated shows. The WWE would likely hit around B- to B+ rated shows. Both would suffer financially due to the low industry/economy but both would have room for growth. Growth is easy to achieve in the game relative to the real world... the game just wouldn't be fun otherwise.

The ultimate point being.... I quite like your stance on things, it just came across as aggressive and as much a rant about mods and playstyles as anything else. I've been guilty of both in the past and I'm a strong advocate of closing off as many of the game exploits as possible and coming up with better ways to have the game run so the exploits aren't such a big deal. Just think you'd be better off phrasing things better so that you can get a game going, because multiplayer is a lot of fun. Andif you have any preferences you should state them too. I've seen games held up for days on end with poeple not wanting to take the lead on declaring their promotion or whatever, only to end up with one they don't like... I tend to say things like...

"I want a North American multiplayer game in the Cornellverse. Everyone needs to go a company with a weekly TV deal. I've got dibs on SWF so everyone else can choose a promotion and let's see how it goes."

Tends to get the job done.

[Makhai]

Originally Posted by Derek B

I would argue that you under-rate TNA a bit, but not as much as I tend to see TNA be over-rated. TNA is a cult sized company at the smaller end of the scale during a time where wrestling is low and the economy is low too. I would argue their product is "rated more on populariaty than performance" whlie the WWE is "rated much more on popularity than performance". That would give TNA the chance to shine with some great performances but still have them mostly relying on stars. John Cena is probably the only person I'd set in the real world to have A level popularity, though I might argue a case for The Undertaker (who I'd also argue is retired so not even a factor now). Zack Ryder wouldn't get above a C+ in popularity in any mod I made and I think that would still be very generous coming from me.

Meanwhile in TNA, I'd be looking at the levels the game describes people at. Up to 50/D+ earns you the label "Indy Star" which is where the likes of Austin Aries/Christopher Daniels/Kazarian would get. It's higher than I think I'd set it but the label is there but that's the level it's at. AJ Styles/Bully Ray would be about a grade higher than that (C-), Storm/Roode/RVD/Sting a stage higher (C) before TNA's top guys grade out in the B-/B range with Jeff Hardy and Kurt Angle. Hogan, their other big name was once an A* back in the late 80s/early 90s... but that was then. Now I'd argue a case for him to be anywhere between B (80ish) and C (60ish) depending on my modd on the day. High charisma, above average mic skills, terrible acting, mid range star quality... star quality and being popular are not the same thing. Mick Foley has great charisma but terrible star quality becaue he doesn't look, sound, act or in any way stand out as a star. He still got over, but that doesn't mean he has star quality.

Anywho... that aside if a mod rated the TNA roster the way I would then I think the company would end up with fairly regular C- to C+ rated shows. The WWE would likely hit around B- to B+ rated shows. Both would suffer financially due to the low industry/economy but both would have room for growth. Growth is easy to achieve in the game relative to the real world... the game just wouldn't be fun otherwise.

The ultimate point being.... I quite like your stance on things, it just came across as aggressive and as much a rant about mods and playstyles as anything else. I've been guilty of both in the past and I'm a strong advocate of closing off as many of the game exploits as possible and coming up with better ways to have the game run so the exploits aren't such a big deal. Just think you'd be better off phrasing things better so that you can get a game going, because multiplayer is a lot of fun. Andif you have any preferences you should state them too. I've seen games held up for days on end with poeple not wanting to take the lead on declaring their promotion or whatever, only to end up with one they don't like... I tend to say things like...

I agree with a lot of this so I'm going to cherry pick... I think TNA is a regional promotion; they're fairly popular in South East... but they can't draw a crowd to save there life anywhere else. Texas is a developing market for them, so maybe they'll hit Cult soon. They also have that Spike TV deal.

I would argue they rate themselves at "rated much more on popularity rather than performance." Even though they have a roster that would benefit greatly from going 90% match ratio. They have a ton of guys that can do it in the ring from top-to-bottom, hell even the K.Os are better wrestlers than their WWE competition, with rare exceptions, although that's not saying that much, really...

Angle I'd rate that high, but I'd also only consider Kurt to be in rapid time decline. Hardy ****ed himself during the Russo era, shouldn't have been working, that's a huge stain. He does have that female demo wrapped up though, no question about that. Maybe B- with super-low consistency.

Hogan is still a cross-over star. A* star quality, B overness. However, his mic skills have deteriorated, and he stammers about, makes a mess of his promos these days. I'd give him D+ish mic skills, B+ charisma, D acting. So pulling a great promo out of him, for TNA, will be easy but once you grow a little? Useless.

We disagree on Ryder, but then again I'm a twitter user... so I see this man flirt with random D- celebs and have all of his ridiculous hashtags trend for a day afterwards. He's not Bieber or Kutcher/Moore big... but he's pretty darn big.The conceit would be, he's painfully mediocre in-ring, has a horrible-irredeemable comedy gimmick, and is a bit small. So that would keep his match grades down and keep in the midcard.

As to show grades... yeah, I could see that.

Finally, my tone being condescending and ranty... that's kinda me, in a nutshell. If that drives people away, it drives people away.

[Derek B]

Angle continues to have an insane amount of talent... but he is getting increasingly limited by his physical condition which should be set pretty low. His toughness will allow him to work through a lot of that and only be penalised a little, but as he declines physically his toughness will get lower, his ability to work through pain will get lower, his resilience will fade and make him more injury prone while his physical condition will fade further. One big injury would likely end his career and every day that passes makes it more likely he'll get hurt and every match will take a little more out of him. Lots of stats in play there, with lots of factors making him likely to retire in-ring within a few years depending on destiny rolls and luck.

Jeff Hardy shouldn't be set to low consistency. He should have his hard drugs sliders set fairly high and to "reformed" (which will penalise him a bit every time he's out) and mediocre consistency because he's never going to be amazingly consistent but he is consistent enough that he doesn't blow every spot he ever does.

Star Quality on the other hand has no bearing on being a crossover star. That's ALL popularity. Star quality is all about taking a look at someone and going "that person could be a star", which is why it's a camera skill. I'm not saying Hogan doesn't still have a good star quality rating (70ish) but there's an easy experiment that can be conducted to work out star quality scores independently of name value. Put two wrestlers in a room together and have people who aren't wrestling fans judge who looks more like a star.

Mick Foley vs David Otunga... Otunga wins every time. But Foley has more talent, more charisma, better mic skills, better psychology... but in terms of Star Quality, Foley has always looked like a fat, out of shape guy. He got past that by being talented, but in terms of star quality he doesn't have a lot of it.

John Cena vs Hulk Hoan? At Hogan's peak he looked every bit the star and had awesome star quality, it's why he got the chance to go to Hollywood alongside his immense popularity. But Hogan has lost a LOT of that... now he looks old, broken down but still pretty distinctive. High star quality for his age but less than it once was.

Ryback vs the jobbers he kills each week? Ryback looks like a star... the jobber don't. And that's one of the reasons why the jobbers are unlikely to ever truly make it to the WWE because they lack star quality.

And star quality (because it's a camera skill) provides boosts to every segment a worker is in. It's the ability to hold someone's attention just by being on screen, an intrinsic ability to draw the attention while charisma is an intrinsic ability to keep the attention of those same people. Popularity/overness is essentially how much people care about a worker, while momentum is a measure of how hot/well booked a worker is at any point in time.

It's tough to separate a lot of the stats in TEW, especially when applying them to the real world. The help files don't provide as much insight as they could but knowing how to apply every stat and what each of them do is key for mod makers. I've spent a lot of time in the editors and I've helped out a bunch of mod makers so a lot of this is a rehash of things I've said before to others. Hopefully it helps out anyone who reads it, and again, I hope you find someone to play a multiplayer game with because they're a lot of fun.

[kaneso14]

Originally Posted by Makhai

I agree with a lot of this so I'm going to cherry pick... I think TNA is a regional promotion; they're fairly popular in South East... but they can't draw a crowd to save there life anywhere else. Texas is a developing market for them, so maybe they'll hit Cult soon. They also have that Spike TV deal.

Slammiversary drew 5,500 in Texas. They drew 12,000 in January over in London for the Impact tapings and 4-5000 for the other house shows that took place throughout the UK. They've also drawn decent crowds in Tennessee. I'm going to agree with Derek and say they're cult, though very low cult at that. C'mon they have a national TV deal in the USA and IW also gets shown in The UK, Ireland, Canada and Australia!

[Makhai]

Originally Posted by Derek B

Star Quality on the other hand has no bearing on being a crossover star. That's ALL popularity. Star quality is all about taking a look at someone and going "that person could be a star", which is why it's a camera skill. I'm not saying Hogan doesn't still have a good star quality rating (70ish) but there's an easy experiment that can be conducted to work out star quality scores independently of name value. Put two wrestlers in a room together and have people who aren't wrestling fans judge who looks more like a star.

I know this, but Hulk has aged well and frankly is more identifiable today then he ever was. He's still doing international T.V. ads, he's still a draw at conventions and people are still buying his sex tape... [takes cold shower]He's got the it-factor. Always has, always will.

Mick Foley vs David Otunga... Otunga wins every time. But Foley has more talent, more charisma, better mic skills, better psychology... but in terms of Star Quality, Foley has always looked like a fat, out of shape guy. He got past that by being talented, but in terms of star quality he doesn't have a lot of it.

I think what you just described is why Foley crushes David Otunga everytime, even today. Foley's got the "it" factor. David Otunga has got the sex appeal, but he doesn't have the "it" factor that I think star quality is supposed to represent. If I beat him with the ugly stick would he still have a job tomorrow? No.

I think that's really has to be said about the man. That's not even mentioning the dude is being used as Tony Atlas 2.0 but he's half as interesting on the mic, and thinks he's Rick Rude. I want to inflict violence on myself whenever I see him. He's so terrible it's changed my opinion of Jennifer Hudson's intellect. It's even worse when I remember he's a Harvard grad...

John Cena vs Hulk Hoan? At Hogan's peak he looked every bit the star and had awesome star quality, it's why he got the chance to go to Hollywood alongside his immense popularity. But Hogan has lost a LOT of that... now he looks old, broken down but still pretty distinctive. High star quality for his age but less than it once was.

I would disagree. He's old, but he looks great for his age, and is every bit as charismatic as he was in the 80s. He's broken down, but he doesn't look it. And he's not walking around with a cane of anything. He still looks exactly like he did in 1999. For better or worse. The problem is, he either can't cut authority promos, or he can't cut promos period. Cena's great, but he ain't got it like Hogan's got it.

Ryback vs the jobbers he kills each week? Ryback looks like a star... the jobber don't. And that's one of the reasons why the jobbers are unlikely to ever truly make it to the WWE because they lack star quality.

You think Ryback looks like a star? I think Ryback looks like Skip Sheffield, that terrible guy who was in the stable that never happened.

And for the record: I actually think the jobbers look like every other WWE wrestler, just 80% less steroidal, and 6" shorter.

And star quality (because it's a camera skill) provides boosts to every segment a worker is in. It's the ability to hold someone's attention just by being on screen, an intrinsic ability to draw the attention while charisma is an intrinsic ability to keep the attention of those same people. Popularity/overness is essentially how much people care about a worker, while momentum is a measure of how hot/well booked a worker is at any point in time.

Yeah, I know. That's why Hogan should have A* star quality and high overness and be trash at everything else save charisma.

It's tough to separate a lot of the stats in TEW, especially when applying them to the real world. The help files don't provide as much insight as they could but knowing how to apply every stat and what each of them do is key for mod makers. I've spent a lot of time in the editors and I've helped out a bunch of mod makers so a lot of this is a rehash of things I've said before to others. Hopefully it helps out anyone who reads it, and again, I hope you find someone to play a multiplayer game with because they're a lot of fun.

Most of what we've been discussing is window dressing. The point is, mods are grading everyone at least a full letter grade higher than they need to be, across the board. Some even more that that. And it annoys me so much I simply don't really bother anymore.

I hope I can find a partner(s) too. But I'm very not hopeful anymore. Thanks for the debate at least, Derek. It was fun.

[Teh_Showtime]

Originally Posted by Makhai

You think Ryback looks like a star? I think Ryback looks like Skip Sheffield, that terrible guy who was in the stable that never happened.

If you put Ryback in the same room with Foley, with absolutely ZERO prior knowledge of either of them you would never guess Foley to be the multi time world champ of wrestling over Ryback. Physicall appearance is a camera skill and Ryback certainly looks the part of what the general public sees when they think of pro wrestling. Compared to Foley who even today wouldn't look out of place as a Wal-Mart greeter the difference is obvious.

[Makhai]

Originally Posted by Teh_Showtime

If you put Ryback in the same room with Foley, with absolutely ZERO prior knowledge of either of them you would never guess Foley to be the multi time world champ of wrestling over Ryback. Physicall appearance is a camera skill and Ryback certainly looks the part of what the general public sees when they think of pro wrestling. Compared to Foley who even today wouldn't look out of place as a Wal-Mart greeter the difference is obvious.

They have two separate camera skills, Sex Appeal, and Star Quality. While I know Sex Appeal is mainly there for the fairer sex, I still think that it should work the same for the dudes. For example: Billy Gunn had a great look, but no star power. And the WWE always mistakes his "look" for the "it." Pushing him multiple times flabbergasted at why the fans didn't take to him. I think wrestling fans of this generation(myself included) have trained themselves to view wrestling exactly like the WWE does and make this mistake too.

For example, Ryback looks like every other brute that came before him, and because of his blatant thief of a gimmick, he's roundly booed and mocked by fans. If you're not a defined heel, you generate that kind of bad heat, you're clearly not a star.

[theunholyicon]

I'm down for a multiplayer game