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  #1  
Unread 09-10-2015, 09:05 AM
Luminairus's Avatar
Luminairus Luminairus is offline
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Default Serious Frustration

I feel like I must be missing something. Started the Rookie to Legend on the Demo, just to give it a try and I can't seem to manage squat. I have had a half dozen matches so far. I can only manage to counter maybe 15% of my opponents moves yet they seem to be able to counter 75% of mine easily. This is when momentum is even and then gets worse as my momentum plummets and their sky rockets. Even with counter moves I think I've hit all of one out of the half dozen matches that I've done so far. Now if I some how manage to build up decent momentum, I still find that even the decent moves (light to medium) get countered frequently. I know in real pro wrestling you will lose a fair number of matches, depending on who is getting pushed, but in a game losing this much is pretty frustrating...especially if you get squashed and don't even get to put on a good show.

I looked at the calculations as suggested on the sticky and found something further confusing. When you select a standard counter it explains that success is based on one of your stats versus one of their stats plus a random number generated and added to the total, including any secondary additions or negatives from move or ability. These stats are graciously provided for in parenthesis. Now from what I have seen in the calculations it takes the moves initial chance of hit, minus a percentage based on the defense move (something we never see prior) which leads to the final CoS, then you see the random number generated, that number is then compared to the final CoS and if it is greater or equal it succeeds doing such amount of damage to the indicated areas.

What I'm looking to figure out is where our actual stats come into play and how momentum affects the calculations? Additionally is Speed like the God stat because it seems like many standard counters rely on its comparison which may be partially my problem since I developed a technician to start and every person I face has higher, sometimes double or more, my Speed rating. Of course I have higher if not double their Ground and Grapple skills which I thought would be helpful when I actually get them down, and seems to be the only time I can get good momentum going, but still seem to get countered a good majority of the time there too. Perhaps I am missing something in the mechanics or did something horribly wrong in my creation which is messing me up...though honestly I tried a simple exhibition match with pre-existing wrestlers and had similar issues. ANY advice and help would be appreciated because the concept of these games has always seemed interesting and unique but extremely difficult for me to play as the luck of the not-so-random roll is rarely in my favor. Perhaps these games just aren't for me, but I'd like to see what any of you have to say first. Thank you.

Oh...forgot, just as a side question. What is the durability of each body part? I seem to have difficult whittling down any part but get yellow for at least my own head every match. Just curious about this, thanks again.
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  #2  
Unread 09-10-2015, 09:17 AM
Adam Ryland Adam Ryland is offline
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The Dirt Sheet feature allows you to see exactly what figures are used in the calculation, together with exactly what random numbers were generated - I would suggest using that extensively at first. It was specifically designed to stop the ongoing cries of "the computer is cheating!" (it isn't) or "it's not really random" (it is) by showing the exact workings, but it is equally useful for learning the fundamentals of the game.

This will also allow you to see what stats are used at what times, which should answer your other question - I don't have the game in front of me, but it should be explicitly stated in several places which stats are used for which counters. Off the top of my head the Slip Outs are speed-based, for example.

Your post seems to indicate that you don't know which stats are aligned with which counters, which would largely explain why you are struggling so badly - good \ intelligent countering is essential, so if you're picking them without any knowledge of why then you will absolutely struggle. The Dirt Sheet will allow you to see this more clearly.

The durability of each body part is found by simply hovering over the graphic. Off the top of my head I think it was 2000pts for the body, 1000pts for everything else.
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  #3  
Unread 09-10-2015, 11:30 AM
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Luminairus Luminairus is offline
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Thank you for the information... I am not picking the counters randomly. I was trying to use which ever indicated a higher skill score over the opponents or at least was close to even so the random number generator might more easily work in my favor. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be working and I seem to find more frequent counters the times I choose counters with a bigger gap. I called it "not-so-random" rolls not because I believe that it is cheating in the computers favor, though with how badly some of these matches have gone you couldn't blame me for the feeling, but that it is not possible to create a computer generated randomization feature. The computer still has to base its rolls on programming after all, but that is a subject for some other thread so ignore the comment all together if it came off overly rude.

Now as for these dirt sheets you referred to... I know there is the character and its stats you can view by clicking their picture in a match, I know that with each counter selected it indicates what stats are opposing each other and what they are, after a successful/failed move there is the calculations which had the basic structure I mentioned in my first message. Don't really see how the stats correlate in this fashion other then that a certain stat is involved in some way. Don't know if it is calculated into the counters percentage to lower the CoS or if a skill rating is calculated into the moves initial CoS or what. Even the help document attached doesn't seem to make things any clearer. Perhaps there is something about it I am missing, but I can't figure what it is. Even the help document mentioned that the calculations were just proof of no cheating and breakdown and not necessary to enjoy the game.


Example:

Screamer does a Dropkick To Corner to Joss Thompson

Calculations read:
Starting chance of success: 820
(The 'Chance of Hit' of Dropkick To Corner)
(-) Lowered by 4% as defender applied Avoid attempt
(Percentage based on a battle of Speed)
(-) Lowered by 8% (based on battle Overall Rating)
Final chance of success: 724
Rolled random number out of 1000: 417
Result: Move attempt succeeded (417 <= 724)
(+) Damage inflicted to head: 13 points
(+) Damage inflicted to body: 12 points

According to the Avoid text it was a match between Joss' Speed (180) and Screamer's Striking (150), then adding the random number between 1-200 to both, and comparing them; the more you 'win' by, the more effective the counter will be.

I don't see how one directly correlates to the other, especially if there are three random number generations in place; one for Joss' Speed skill, one for Screamer's Striking skill, and the other for chance of success. Do you see what I mean and why I'm confused?
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  #4  
Unread 09-10-2015, 03:53 PM
Adam Ryland Adam Ryland is offline
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Sorry, I'm afraid I really don't understand what information you're looking for or where your confusion is arising. I've read your posts three times and I think I'm more confused as to what you're driving at now than I was the first time around!
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  #5  
Unread 09-10-2015, 04:26 PM
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Derek B Derek B is offline
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I think I get what you're getting at... in all cases, the chance to hit is the number at the top and that is raised/lowered by the battle of various stats as you've already mentioned. In this case, Joss's speed is higher than your striking, causing the small drop in the chance to hit of that move (the base value lowered by 4% due to losing that battle). The battle of Overall Rating lowers that value further (based on Joss' being significantly higher than Screamer's), leaving the Final Chance of Success lowered by the initial 4% and then another 8% from there... then you need a little luck to roll under the remaining number to hit the move.

There is only ONE random number in the whole calculation, and it's the roll to hit once all the modifiers have been thrown in are based on stats. That's why picking the right moves, the right counters, working to your strengths and targeting opponent's weaknesses is so important... you ultimately need to find the right strategy to make the most of what you have. Sometimes you'll need to ground a big guy who would otherwise pound you into the mat, sometimes you got to hit and run at a technician who will try to ground you and submit you... sometimes you'll need to just squeeze the life out of someone who doesn't have the stamina to fight back, giving you the chance to do whatever you want...

Ultimately, it all comes down to that random number and maximising your chances to win by picking the right strategy and rights moves for any given opponent.

EDIT: As a technician you need to work on a moveset where you can ground an opponent. Specifically working on an opponent's legs will also slowly lower their speed rating as you inflict more and more damage on them too, which will help you to build towards whatever finishers you have (it would be helpful to build towards a leg based submission in this case). Rookies have a habit of losing a lot, and a grounde technician style tends to favour lowering your opponent's momentum rahter than boosting your own... you'll just need to find the moves in your available moveset that help you out, and hope that you aren't being thrown against the higher level opponents early on like El Mitico Jr, who is EVIL when you are just starting!

Last edited by Derek B : 09-10-2015 at 04:32 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 09-10-2015, 11:58 PM
Eidenhoek Eidenhoek is offline
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Slip out is Speed OR grappling, but it's against their striking (or whatever relevant attacking stat). Find your opponent's weakness; in RtL, some guys have TERRIBLE speed, meaning that your strikes (to be avoided) might hit easily. If they have poor ground...well, that's an attacking stat. You might be able to work them on the ground yourself.

I'd do say...Tommy Cornell (you) vs. ...Antman. Or some jabroni guy. You'll be hard-pressed to lose, and it'll let you see a bit how some of your counters are calculated.
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