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  #16  
Unread 11-12-2019, 02:44 PM
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Bigpapa42 Bigpapa42 is offline
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So I do have a thread on another site (non-TEW specific) where I post about the progress on the mod. As well as a vomiting forth any random thoughts or considerations or ideas I have on the mod. Almost daily. Which is oddly helpful in staying motivation. I don't intend to do that here, but I figure it can't hurt to post the occasional progress update or things that I've been looking at. I may ask for suggestions or thoughts on certain topics at times, and I'm of course always open to questions.

Testing

So one of the things I do with any mod is test it. A lot. The majority of which are just test sims (soak tests) and then looking through looking for anomalies or errors. But a big part of the tests is looking for stability - short term and long-term. How do companies grade? Are they sustainable? Overpowered? Underpowered? This leads to tweaking.

I don't want to be tweaking things just yet but I am concerned with how things grade and whether they are stable. Like I said in the explanation of the idea slotting.... what if I end up with hundreds of workers in the data and then realize it doesn't produce results like I expect?

I have yet to do a significant amount of testing on this data, for a couple of reasons.

The first is how I've approached adding workers. Which is... sporadic. The smartest approach would be doing one company at a time. This then means that once a company is complete, you can test and see fairly accurately how it generates grades. But I've been very sporadic. Which was an internal choice - I like seeing different areas and different companies gradually fill up. I like moving around through the game world. I have a spreadsheet with a list of workers who I have already matched up, and its about 700 workers long - although a portion of those are yet-to-debut workers that I'm not bothering with yet. I tend to just move between countries - adding someone from the US scene, then a Japanese wrestler, then a luchador, then a female wrestler, then someone from the UK or Europe, and then repeat. I've done more focused adding at times, but not consistently.

What that means is that there are no completed companies. The WWE and NJPW are both close - I would say 80-90% of active wrestlers are in there, and enough non-wrestlers (road agents, refs, broadcasters) to function. Other companies have less, and a few are still missing owners or bookers. The issue is that it means companies all hire more talent, meaning the companies look different in very short order and the results are then.... a bit off. Not necessarily massively, but it creates a variable.

The second reason I haven't tested all that much is that testing leads to tweaking. I see something off and I want to correct it. When that's an actual error, that's fine. Someone who has the wrong gender set, or a spelling error in their name, or active in the wrong regions, etc. But when its a skilling issue... Starting to tweak workers so results are more accurate is a process all unto itself. It needs to happen, but I don't want to get drawn into it yet. For example, I'm quite curious how a few really veteran workers who are still quite top level will grade - Kurt Angle, Black Terry, etc. They have Time Decline set so they shouldn't be spitting out A and A* matches all the time. But... I may need to nerf things a bit further to better emulate their age. A primary reason I don't want to worry on that right now is that things could change a bit for TEW 2020, so its better to wait and do that kind of testing once the data is converted.

All that said, the little bit of testing I have done has been fairly short-term - like a year or two max, instead of going 10 years plus as I will later. And I'm just looking for grade stability. And those things look pretty good

WWE - they function as they do in most modern mods, which is always going to be a bit variable in terms of grades because the roster is always so big (realistically) that a lot of talent who just shouldn't headline get auto-pushed to Main Event and sometimes get headlined. The new push system on TEW 2020 might change this so I'm not going to worry overmuch, but the grades generally seem enough to maintain the WWE at its starting size, which is really all I'm looking for.

NJPW - can be a tough overpowered on tour shows, depending on who they headline. Its a bit like PGHW in the Cverse in that regard, but its not enough to be concerning.

TNA - grades vary quite a bit. Realistic.

AAA & CMLL - they've been getting a lot of attention lately - in every way. I've been watching a lot of lucha recently and I really want this to be a vibrant scene. I've also been adding a lot of talent to both companies. But the results seem solid - ranging from C to B-. Not strong enough to make a HARD push for national but they aren't going to be going backwards much either.

The Indies - okay, I will very rarely wrap together so many diverse wrestling regions and companies into one like this. DDT is not the same as wXw is not the same as MCW. But there are similarities in how they grade, so I didn't want to break it up in a whole bunch. Every region has some good to VERY good workers that are under contract, and others who will be free agents. Very few have strong popularity but many are good in-ring workers. That means they can all pull strong grades for shows against the right opponent, but won't do so consistently. I think I saw wXw get a B- show at one point, pretty much because of Walter. That's not the norm, though. The only companies I saw get consistent solid grades that was a step above their company popularity was Noah and Dragon Gate, but other companies like DDT and AJPW are likely going to be capable of the same once they have more complete rosters. In other regions, the strong grades will be a bit less frequent because even if the workers are capable of it, they mostly lack the popularity. But.... the companies are also mostly smaller, so a reasonably strong grade can be just as helpful.

What I need to test for but can't yet is long term grades and stability. Are the companies growing? Growing too fast? Getting into money trouble? These are the things where a long-term soak test is necessary, and quite a few of them.

TL DR - I can't test much because I like chaotic mod-building apparently but what I can test looks solid.
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  #17  
Unread 11-12-2019, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigpapa42 View Post
Good to hear.

Would it be wrong to assume that, based on the username, you are a fan of Mr. Moxley? The Shied are still fairly early days but are pretty solid workers already by this point. Not quite "they can headline easily", but they should all develop into that. Its the kind of thing I'll be looking for once I can start to do more long-term testing.
No, not wrong at all. Big fan of both Moxley and the Shield. The mod starts right before they get their first taste of championship gold in the WWE, so it'll be interesting to book their run and eventual demise as a unit for sure.
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  #18  
Unread 11-12-2019, 08:50 PM
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Love how this sounds so far, 2013 is a sort of nostalgic year for me since it was around the time I was getting back into wrestling, plus i've actually sort of done some slotting for a personal database of mine so it's kind of interesting to see i'm not the only one.

on a sort of related note, is it bad that my contrarian side is telling me to Batista vs Triple H the wrestlemania 30 main event?
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  #19  
Unread 11-12-2019, 09:41 PM
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2013 is also the year I started to get back into wrestling for like the 4th or 5th time. Though Punk/Rock almost made me give up right back up. i didn't even realize the Wyatts hadn't debuted at this point yet. I foolishly thought that this period was a sign of WWE doing a hard change by rotating out the old guard, but alas. That said, 2013/14 did motivate me to start watching more alternatives and I'm glad it did.

the idea of being able to play as WWE and NXT just before the Takeover era is exciting. so yeah, this mod is gonna rule.
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  #20  
Unread 11-13-2019, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
2013 is also the year I started to get back into wrestling for like the 4th or 5th time. Though Punk/Rock almost made me give up right back up. i didn't even realize the Wyatts hadn't debuted at this point yet. I foolishly thought that this period was a sign of WWE doing a hard change by rotating out the old guard, but alas. That said, 2013/14 did motivate me to start watching more alternatives and I'm glad it did.

the idea of being able to play as WWE and NXT just before the Takeover era is exciting. so yeah, this mod is gonna rule.
Couldn't agree more, especially after running through the entirety of NXT from 2012-2014, I couldn't be more pumped. So much potential on that young roster, would craft quite a company for ten years down the line. Just before they went crazy signing indy guys like it was going out of style.
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  #21  
Unread 11-13-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Moxley View Post
No, not wrong at all. Big fan of both Moxley and the Shield. The mod starts right before they get their first taste of championship gold in the WWE, so it'll be interesting to book their run and eventual demise as a unit for sure.
They were already pretty big but its still early enough that you can do different things as you push them right to the top. I would want to do more with Moxley and really capitalize on that character, rather than what the WWE actually did.

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Originally Posted by ruckusrick View Post
Love how this sounds so far, 2013 is a sort of nostalgic year for me since it was around the time I was getting back into wrestling, plus i've actually sort of done some slotting for a personal database of mine so it's kind of interesting to see i'm not the only one.

on a sort of related note, is it bad that my contrarian side is telling me to Batista vs Triple H the wrestlemania 30 main event?
You gotta do what feels right. If the greatest match in the history of wrestling is what you want to headline WM, then you can definitely do that. Or you can turn Mason Ryan into the level of star he deserved to be an make that epicest of epic matches into a threeway. Just sayin....

How far did you get with the slotting-based project you did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
2013 is also the year I started to get back into wrestling for like the 4th or 5th time. Though Punk/Rock almost made me give up right back up. i didn't even realize the Wyatts hadn't debuted at this point yet. I foolishly thought that this period was a sign of WWE doing a hard change by rotating out the old guard, but alas. That said, 2013/14 did motivate me to start watching more alternatives and I'm glad it did.

the idea of being able to play as WWE and NXT just before the Takeover era is exciting. so yeah, this mod is gonna rule.
I believe it was July where the Wyatt family made their main roster debut, but they had done vignettes for a period first.

And yeah, it did feel like they were starting to change things over in a generational sense. That is exactly part of the "potential" of the time period, since it never really happened that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kijar View Post
Couldn't agree more, especially after running through the entirety of NXT from 2012-2014, I couldn't be more pumped. So much potential on that young roster, would craft quite a company for ten years down the line. Just before they went crazy signing indy guys like it was going out of style.
The NXT of this period is interesting. I'm sure it will disappoint some folks, as it doesn't have the sheer depth of talent of some of time periods a bit later. In addition to the Wyatt family, you have Sami Zayn, Chris Hero, Neville, Enzo & Big Cass were just forming up, Tyler Breeze had joined, and Rusev was still there. You had all four of the Horsewomen there. It should be quite fun to book if you want to run NXT.
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  #22  
Unread 11-13-2019, 04:30 PM
StupidIdiot9000 StupidIdiot9000 is offline
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I'd love a 2010s mod, there aren't nearly enough of those. Imagine booking ROH still with The Bucks, Undisputed Era, Kevin Steen; not to mention saving TNA (or NOAH), the rises of Naito and Miyahara, just the ENTIRE re-rise of BritWres, and the insane amount of wasted opportunities in the WWE (The Wyatt Family and Cesaro, just to name a few). The opportunities are endless, and all my ideas are fresh with the lack of mods in this time period. Cannot WAIT until this mod comes out. Seems like you've put a lot of thought and effort into it.

Anyways, will the mod be released for TEW 2016, or will it be exclusive to 2020?
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  #23  
Unread 11-13-2019, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by StupidIdiot9000 View Post
I'd love a 2010s mod, there aren't nearly enough of those. Imagine booking ROH still with The Bucks, Undisputed Era, Kevin Steen; not to mention saving TNA (or NOAH), the rises of Naito and Miyahara, just the ENTIRE re-rise of BritWres, and the insane amount of wasted opportunities in the WWE (The Wyatt Family and Cesaro, just to name a few). The opportunities are endless, and all my ideas are fresh with the lack of mods in this time period. Cannot WAIT until this mod comes out. Seems like you've put a lot of thought and effort into it.

Anyways, will the mod be released for TEW 2016, or will it be exclusive to 2020?
First post says only for 2020
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  #24  
Unread 11-13-2019, 05:38 PM
StupidIdiot9000 StupidIdiot9000 is offline
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First post says only for 2020
Oof thanks
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  #25  
Unread 11-14-2019, 01:44 AM
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BHK1978 BHK1978 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bigpapa42 View Post
Thanks BHK. And I'm intrigued on what project you were working on. What time period and how far did you get?

Slotting (my term, there's probably a better one out there lol) definitely worked as intended in that regard. I'll post something about early test results soon, but its petty on-point in that aspect.

I figured it might save time. It doesn't.

The slowest part is definitely adding in the biographies but I like to actually make them somewhat worth reading, so....
It was a fictional universe set in 1985. The first time I tried it, I had around 500 workers done and then my old computer died.

A few years later I started working on it again and this time I have 207 (I just looked it up). Basically I was looking for C-Verse workers that would match-up decently with real world counterparts. For instance I created a Harley Race type character and then I went into the C-Verse and looked for someone who was of similar age and stats. There was never a perfect match but I took what I could get and tweaked the stats to get it somewhat close.

The more I worked on the mod the more I started thinking, "Am I just making a Real World mod here?" That actually killed my interest in making the mod further because a lot of what I was doing was just a mirror of the real world.
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  #26  
Unread 11-14-2019, 07:37 PM
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Bigpapa42 Bigpapa42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StupidIdiot9000 View Post
I'd love a 2010s mod, there aren't nearly enough of those. Imagine booking ROH still with The Bucks, Undisputed Era, Kevin Steen; not to mention saving TNA (or NOAH), the rises of Naito and Miyahara, just the ENTIRE re-rise of BritWres, and the insane amount of wasted opportunities in the WWE (The Wyatt Family and Cesaro, just to name a few). The opportunities are endless, and all my ideas are fresh with the lack of mods in this time period. Cannot WAIT until this mod comes out. Seems like you've put a lot of thought and effort into it.

Anyways, will the mod be released for TEW 2016, or will it be exclusive to 2020?
Noah is actually one of the two companies I'm most looking forward to. AJPW will be interesting too but will require more rebuilding as it starts right as the fallout from Mutoh happens.

Miyahara is something I've been mulling. At this point in time, he is still connected to Diamond Ring / Kensuke Office, which isn't in the data in any real way (not a mechanism that exists). He would join AJPW in August and have his first match in September. I had him start with AJPW originally but that felt.... obviously wrong. I edited it recently and I haven't checked, but I have a feeling he will consistently be snapped up by NJPW in every save.

As Jaysin pointed out, its going to be 2020 only. That might disappoint a few folks, but I just don't see how it works otherwise. There are a few things I am not bothering with because I will tweak / adjust them once it can be converted to TEW 2020. That includes companies, products, company popularity, broadcasters, training facilities, etc. I want them to be optimized for 2020 as they are changing, so there isn't much point messing with them before its converted. I will also be testing and tweaking on 2020. I have no interest in doing all of that twice, which is what releasing the mod for both TEWs would require. Equally, I would not release a TEW 2016 version that wasn't complete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHK1978 View Post
It was a fictional universe set in 1985. The first time I tried it, I had around 500 workers done and then my old computer died.

A few years later I started working on it again and this time I have 207 (I just looked it up). Basically I was looking for C-Verse workers that would match-up decently with real world counterparts. For instance I created a Harley Race type character and then I went into the C-Verse and looked for someone who was of similar age and stats. There was never a perfect match but I took what I could get and tweaked the stats to get it somewhat close.

The more I worked on the mod the more I started thinking, "Am I just making a Real World mod here?" That actually killed my interest in making the mod further because a lot of what I was doing was just a mirror of the real world.
500 workers. Man, that must have taken awhile. Heartbreaking to lose that much work.

And I do know what you mean about the mirror part. I've toyed with a few ideas for fictional mods over the years, but it never got past that brainstorming stage. The problem I always run into is that I either feel that my concepts are too directly derivative of real world wrestling situations / dynamics, or just too intentionally intended to be contrary to those. It just doesn't feel original enough. Which honestly probably works best with a fictional mod - I think most users like things they can connect to real wrestling, even if its not too directly - but it ends up feeling like there is no point.
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  #27  
Unread 11-14-2019, 07:54 PM
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Idolized Idolized is offline
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Feel free to use anything from the BETA release of my 2004 mod (Graphics, banners, data, etc)
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  #28  
Unread 11-15-2019, 03:15 AM
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i like this timeframe very much, The Wyatt Family should be super fun to book right this time.
I do have a little request if you can release some screenshots of worker skills
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  #29  
Unread 11-15-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Idolized View Post
Feel free to use anything from the BETA release of my 2004 mod (Graphics, banners, data, etc)
You. sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you kindly.

Graphics could definitely be handy. Especially as you have switched to the organic style. The biggest thing I'm importing directly is non-wrestlers. Refs, announcers, etc. And honestly, they are a pain to find information on. Even confirming the date of birth for a lot of refs is a nightmare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatIsraeliGuy View Post
i like this timeframe very much, The Wyatt Family should be super fun to book right this time.
I do have a little request if you can release some screenshots of worker skills
I can probably do that over the weekend. Not going to do a huge number of them, but one or two is probably workable. Any specific workers you had in mind?
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  #30  
Unread 11-16-2019, 03:35 PM
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Very excited to book RVDs return to WWE
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