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  #16  
Unread 09-15-2015, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderz
Any glaring ommisions from the criteria; I've tried to keep it deliberately short.
Current only one show in the month is needed to qualify; should this be two?
Any other minor awards you'd like me to consider? particularly any other mod that may warrant it's own sub-section.
1. (not glaring, but an omission) I [among others] pitched the idea of an additional reward for the "main winner" to "separate" the award from the sub-winners: the winning diary would be stickied for a month. Would you consider adding/be able to add some additional reward?
2. I agree with MHero on two shows/month instead of one -- it narrows down the qualifying field.
3. I can't find anything.
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  #17  
Unread 09-15-2015, 07:38 PM
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I like all the suggestions and your criteria, and thank you for taking over this as I haven't passed that along yet.

This probably won't get much traction, but my only suggestion would be to break the Real World Mods into two sections, probably best as post & pre-Attitude Era (really post-WCW). The more current ones pop up more frequently and get a lot more readers because it is easier for readers to jump into as they know everyone. If there were more C-Verse 97 diaries out there, I'd suggest the same thing. There's just too big of a range in RW mods, all the way from 1970 to Current Day for one category, though again, that will probably be a lack of supply for the pre-WCW ends group.
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  #18  
Unread 09-16-2015, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olympia View Post
fewer candidates might actually be a good thing. We are focused in on the truly best diaries of THAT month -- rather than possibly that one show might be good enough to siphon off a few votes from loyal readers, but not the best of the month. If there are only 2-3 diaries that are active in a given month, then make an exception, but for most it's not an issue to put on 2 shows

Would not hurt my feelings if the nominations made by the readers went to a committee who picked a top 5 -- but oh what a can of worms that would open
But does the best diary win for that month all of the time? I mean shoot, I have won in the past and I can tell you that nothing I have ever written has been all that great. At the end of the day it is a popularity contest and nothing more.

I see DOTM as being akin (For me at least) to a popular television show. I am not a fan of American Idol but that was a ratings juggernaut for years. However, just because it was the top rated show for all of those years does not mean it was the best.

I would not be in favor of the committee thing at all. That was one of the reasons why I was not a fan of the last end of year awards because someone chose who was allowed to vote and it came across as being very elitist to me. If this is truly for the community then everyone should have been allowed to vote for who won those "awards" last year and not a select few.

Now I am not opposed to the two show rule as that was the previous rule, so if that is the decision it is Cool and the Gang with me.

In regards to Anderz's rules I only have an issue with four. I never get why one must give a reason why they want to see something nominated. Maybe it is because I often do not really know why I like what I like and why I dislike what I dislike. I just like what I like and that is all.

I really do not see the point of my being the hype machine of the stuff that I like. What I mean by that is if I like a diary and I nominate it as I said previously I might not even truly know why I like it, I just like it.

Therefore, I may have a hard time giving a reason for why I do like it. That is why I tend to not give feedback in diaries because my comments are usually something along the lines of, "That was a good show." If I am being honest I do not want to put too much thought behind why I like certain wrestling fan fiction.

I will say that I am glad you kept rule one because it keeps people honest. I mean if rule one was not there, I have no doubt in my mind that people would not be modest enough to not vote for themselves.

I am not sure I agree with the New Diaries category either because there are some writers on here who start up new diaries on a regular basis. I see it a lot in the RW diaries, a person will start up a diary and then a few weeks later bam it is gone and then they begin the cycle again.
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  #19  
Unread 09-16-2015, 10:19 AM
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Apologies for not quoting directly; I'm on my phone and it gets a bit messy so I've kept it simple. As far as I can tell there have been six points raised so far so I'll give my thoughts on them. Feel free to challenge back on these..


One Show or Two to qualify
I'm personally not inclined either way here, so if there are more voices say two then I'm happy to go with that. If it becomes a problem down the road it's an easy fix.

Awards by Committee
I'll echo BHK here and say what gives a certain group of people more say than others? I'd say this system makes the whole forum the committee and is as fair as can be in my eyes.

Stickied thread for the winner
I'd be happy to support this but obviously I'm not a mod so couldn't do it myself. I'd also like to see this thread get stickies as well once we get rolling but again not my call.

Splitting up Real World
This is something I'm not really keen on; I think if we break things down by more than 4 or 5 groups we end up with every niche diary winning an award - and if everyone wins then no one wins. However, if there is more call for it then I shall consider it of course.

New diary award
This was my least certain of the sub-awards. It was more to give lesser known writers a chance for some recognition. But I'm not sure if it would actually achieve that or not. Perfectly happy to leave this one on the cutting room floor unless anyone strongly believes it is warranted.

Giving a Reason
In my view at least, forcing people to say why the diary they think is the best is better than the rest they have voted for is key. In fact I think it helps tackle your "popularity contest" critique. If I have to actually think about why I want to vote this diary as number one I might be less likely to just pick a diary that everyone else has just picked. I get that it doesn't cover all of the "popularity problem" but I think it can help. And it's not like I'm expecting an essay - if it's just "really well formatted - a nice read" or "perfectly booking - had me on the edge of my seat" then that's fine. I think that's better than a list of five arbritray diaries and that's that no explanation no nothing. I'm also only requesting a reason for the top vote so I feel like I've already compromised a little on this - it would probably a big turn off to expect five reasons from every voter otherwise your vote doesn't count.


Some great discussion here, please continue it. I'll make further amendments to the rules and criteria later and get the voting thread opened up tonight all being well.
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  #20  
Unread 09-16-2015, 01:56 PM
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Maybe for New Diary award, hall of fame writers aren't counted for that? The way I see it, they don't need the rub of being voted best new diary because people are going to see the name first, the diary second. The same reason why I think they should still be listed, for ease of access as to who they are.

The New Diary award could (and should) allow inexperienced writers to get some early accreditation from their peers for their work. Helps people who are just getting their feet wet to keep them wet in a sense.
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  #21  
Unread 09-16-2015, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHero View Post
Maybe for New Diary award, hall of fame writers aren't counted for that? The way I see it, they don't need the rub of being voted best new diary because people are going to see the name first, the diary second. The same reason why I think they should still be listed, for ease of access as to who they are.

The New Diary award could (and should) allow inexperienced writers to get some early accreditation from their peers for their work. Helps people who are just getting their feet wet to keep them wet in a sense.
Maybe what you could do is (Though this would severely limit who would be eligible) limit who can be eligible for the award by not allowing anyone who is in the HOF and by making a cap on how many diaries a new writer can write and still be considered a new writer.

After all when does a new writer cease being a "new writer"?

For instance I could not see someone like you or I (Just using us as examples) being up for a New Diary award because we have already written plenty in the past and theoretically it should not be fair for us to go against someone who is completely new and has yet to develop a following.

Also a cap would stop someone from winning who constantly starts a diary only to end it after a few posts.

If this award does happen then yes I think a list of the Hall of Famers should be posted because then folks would know who not to nominate. The only reason why I thought it was stupid to have it up before was because it served no purpose because it was only a rule when we had the Rookie DOTM but once that ended there was no need to have a list of names in the rules section.
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  #22  
Unread 09-16-2015, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHK1978 View Post
For instance I could not see someone like you or I (Just using us as examples) being up for a New Diary award because we have already written plenty in the past and theoretically it should not be fair for us to go against someone who is completely new and has yet to develop a following.
Aw man, I'm old and I'm not even 20.

Agree with you on all the points, BHK. For the "limit" I'd say that a writer ceases to be "new" if they either go about six months consistently with a diary or if they have 5 under their belt.
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  #23  
Unread 09-16-2015, 05:17 PM
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I've amended the minimum number of shows to Two as discussed.

I've also changed "New Diary" to "New Writer" - currently have it as not a member of HOF but I'd like to tighten that more so that it really does serve a purpose.

I'd like it to be something that's easy to track so maybe it is just "less than three diaries started" and that can cover TEW13, TEW10 and so on. Maybe also have a "started within last three months" for the nominated diary as well..

I'm not sure. But the criteria can be smoothed out as it shouldn't affect anyone's votes with the sub-awards only coming into play once all votes have been counted.
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  #24  
Unread 09-16-2015, 05:20 PM
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Awards by Committee - I will chip in that I think all awards should be by public vote.
Stickied thread for the winner - Would be nice to see, but that does require a mod on hand to do.
Splitting up Real World - I don't agree on this; if you start splitting it up, even by the aforementioned "pre and post WCW" then what about splitting into 80s? 90s? 00s? That is a slippery slope, and one that I don't think is worth going down.
New diary award - I like MHero's suggestion on how to limit what you describe a "new writer" as. That is honestly the biggest problem with trying to come up with a new diary award, is what makes a new writer? If you can't come up with a way to define "new" then I would say just drop the category. The only other way I can think of to get the desired result (i.e. new diaries not facing off with veteran games) would be to replace "new diary award" with some sort of a "Golden Age" award, for writers who have proven their salt to go against one another. That would take away the HOFers and others who have been here and been diary writing for a long time, so that the new diaries can get their spotlight. But again; what proves that you are an (for lack of a better term) "old writer" aside from an HOF status which not many have? Again, this one may be another slippery slope to start down...
Giving a Reason - I like how Anderz put it, with only giving a reason for the main one you are voting.
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  #25  
Unread 09-16-2015, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderz View Post
I've also changed "New Diary" to "New Writer" - currently have it as not a member of HOF but I'd like to tighten that more so that it really does serve a purpose.
Possibly just 'never won a diary award' before? Might be hard to keep track of, but there's scope for a writer to start and stop several times before clicking enough to start gaining momentum - I had 5 diaries, I think, before my MAW diary caught people's attention. Only one of them really went more than a few months and a few shows, but they informed what I was doing after that, which I guess is the whole point of being a rookie - learning what works, what doesn't... Winning the 'new writer' award would be a recognition of progress, rather than necessarily the passage of time.
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  #26  
Unread 09-17-2015, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Casey View Post
Possibly just 'never won a diary award' before? Might be hard to keep track of, but there's scope for a writer to start and stop several times before clicking enough to start gaining momentum - I had 5 diaries, I think, before my MAW diary caught people's attention. Only one of them really went more than a few months and a few shows, but they informed what I was doing after that, which I guess is the whole point of being a rookie - learning what works, what doesn't... Winning the 'new writer' award would be a recognition of progress, rather than necessarily the passage of time.
I think this is the best solution. I'm assuming we count the "new diary/never won a diary award" as "an award" in this case, so the "winner" is no longer eligible. One problem with the "Rookie DOTM" is a writer's first shows would be unlikely to be in many [overall] top fives, so there wouldn't be a lot represented.

I'll have the [records, etc] updated soon (probably tonight or tomorrow) so all the past winners will be in one place.

If we do this, should we could Monthly Spotlight? I'd be interested
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  #27  
Unread 09-17-2015, 12:03 PM
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Typing on my phone, so I'll be brief. I just wanted to say thank you to Anderz for taking things over. I hope that things run as smoothly with this new setup as they always have for me.
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  #28  
Unread 09-17-2015, 01:03 PM
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I don't like the idea of a "Rookie" DOTM.

To me, the primary reason we have DOTM is to drive competition between writers. I know it was perhaps started to bring the community together but on another level, I think it motivates all of us to write better in order to try and beat those diaries written by the great writers that always seem to win. Same reason I don't like the idea of the C-Verse divide. I plan to run a C-Verse diary in the future and I want them to be put up against every other diary on the board, not just the other C-Verse ones. I want to be better than the best, not better than the best of the small group of people that write a mod I am also writing (see how ridiculous that sounds?).

No, we don't need a sub-award for the new writers. Instead, they should be competing against the best diaries on the board in order for them to read the best diaries and get better at writing. They need to be taking bits and pieces from diaries they like and applying them to their own work. They need to be commenting and predicting - interacting with the other writers on the board in order for them to make friends and build a following of their own. A sub-award doesn't help a lesser writer, it only pigeonholes them into the lower echelon of a hierarchy that shouldn't exist in the first place.
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  #29  
Unread 09-17-2015, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootinie View Post
I don't like the idea of a "Rookie" DOTM.

To me, the primary reason we have DOTM is to drive competition between writers. I know it was perhaps started to bring the community together but on another level, I think it motivates all of us to write better in order to try and beat those diaries written by the great writers that always seem to win. Same reason I don't like the idea of the C-Verse divide. I plan to run a C-Verse diary in the future and I want them to be put up against every other diary on the board, not just the other C-Verse ones. I want to be better than the best, not better than the best of the small group of people that write a mod I am also writing (see how ridiculous that sounds?).

No, we don't need a sub-award for the new writers. Instead, they should be competing against the best diaries on the board in order for them to read the best diaries and get better at writing. They need to be taking bits and pieces from diaries they like and applying them to their own work. They need to be commenting and predicting - interacting with the other writers on the board in order for them to make friends and build a following of their own. A sub-award doesn't help a lesser writer, it only pigeonholes them into the lower echelon of a hierarchy that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Agreed. Down to the letter.
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  #30  
Unread 09-17-2015, 02:54 PM
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It's clear that there's still some conflicting ideas about the new writer/diary/rookie/whatever sub-award so I'll leave it as criteria yet to be determined - I've got two more weeks before it needs firming up to publish the rankings.

Keep your ideas and thoughts coming in - but don't forget to get your votes in over in the September voting thread (link in main post).
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