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  #3076  
Unread 08-14-2019, 08:51 PM
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franticloser franticloser is offline
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I think terms like smark and mark as insults is outdated. We are all marks, even the wrestlers are marks (usually the biggest ones) and saying indy fans are smarks is just insulting. How dare a fan of wrestling actually want to watch a variety of wrestling! Just because it isn't for you, doesn't mean you need to talk down to others that it is for. The fact that Cody and The Young Bucks (which I'm not a fan of) sold out a stadium with no real build a year ago, and have been so far able to follow that success is great for the business and shows that it isn't just "smarks" who are paying attention. Is it for you? No, but that doesn't mean the fans it is for are less then you or smarks or the lowest denominator. If you really look at it the lowest denominator would be mainstream fans. As they only follow what is easy to access instead of digging into other things.

As I stated earlier in this thread, you are not all wrestling fans, you aren't even all mainstream fans. So, saying that that doesn't penetrate mainstream fans, isn't really true. It just doesn't penetrate to you. Because YOU don't care. and that is fine. Wrestling at it's base offers something for everyone. Are the stereotypical "basement dwelling neck beards" fans a thing? Yes, and they can be annoying. But the mainstream "I'm better then you because I'm not you" fan does as well and they can also be annoying.

I mean we are all fans of a form of entertainment that is made up, and we all love it for different reasons.

The gross generalization of indie wrestling being flips and tag matches with no psychology isn't true either. Daniel Bryan got over on having great technical matches, Jon Moxley on wild brawls, Nigel McGuinness was a a great mix of power and technical wrestling as was Cesaro. Not to mention Kevin Steen, Sami Sayn, Viking Raiders, Pete Dunne, Roderick Strong, Adam Cole, Aleister Black, among others.

But all of that is off topic to a point. tl:dr You aren't every fan, you aren't the voice of the mainstream fans either. So, just because you don't care doesn't mean those who do care are less then you. And Indie wrestling isn't all flips and no psychology. If you'd like to further debate this subject, I suggest moving it to the Dog Pound section instead of clogging up the dev journal, as we are veering way off topic and arguing over something from two very different view points on what matters to wrestling (I support the views that if you are a fan and passionate about wrestling why not seek out as much of it as you can? You are more about mainstream and just grab what is easy to grab.)
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  #3077  
Unread 08-14-2019, 10:55 PM
TLCJR4LIFE TLCJR4LIFE is online now
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Most of those guys didn’t have watchable matches until going through the big leagues.

And smarks don’t want a “variety of wrestling”. A smark is hard to define, but the best I got


- A smark judges the quality of a wrestling show/match based on how much they personally agree with the booking.
- Values high spots over everything, no matter how many times it’s been done before, won’t hesistate to try to start a holy **** chant for even the most mundane high spot.
- Bases their opinions on worker quality from the outdated headings of Dave Meltzer
- Has zero understanding of match psychology because has a short attention span, is so into the idea of wrestling as a show performance the workers get over on senseless spots. See anyone who has ever thought the Young shucks have ever had a good match.
- Enjoyment of wrestling comes from putting themselves over and putting themselves into the show in anyway possible, even if it’s just throwing money at 6 Indy guys in a bingo hall after enough choreographed flip routines and dick spots.
- Will generally pretend that any non-Charlotte women’s wrestler is capable of headlining a major company’s Shows without it being a debacle, will also generally pretend that Charlotte isn’t the best women’s wrestler by a country mile, being the only one in the division with believable athleticism/strength for you know... a wrestler.
- Will likewise pretend that run of the mill vanilla midgets are superior to Cenas and Reigns, who run circles around these guys athletically, simply because said vanilla midgets came from the indies where they performed Japanese style suplexes for no reason at all(MOVEZ!)
This is how we got a year + of CM Punk as world champion, who has all of the believability of a high school janitor, performing top rope Elbow drops with the intensity of a senior citizen.



These are just a few ways to define smarks. But basically they ruined wrestling in many ways and the sooner bookers start ignoring them the better the wrestling industry will be.
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  #3078  
Unread 08-15-2019, 01:37 AM
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franticloser franticloser is offline
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No what you described is a fan of a particular style of wrestling. And to say Daniel Bryan didn't have a watchable match prior to joining the. WWE is patently false.

A Smark is defined (and this is coming from someone who has was around when the term came about) as a fan or mark who thinks they are smart to the business and because they know insider terms. Like psychology and what it means when it pertains to wrestling. While never actually being trained to.be a wrestler.

So pretty much 99% of internet wrestling fans. So what you described is not a smark, it is just a fan who doesn't like what you do. Different strokes for different folks.

And to your comment on Reigns and Cena being more athletic then say Gargano or Bryan. That isn't true, stronger and having a better physique doesn't = more athletic. Is a gymnast less athletic then a pro football player? No they are just athletic in different ways. And again this isn't the place for this conversation. So I will end it here and if you'd like to discuss it further pm me or start a thread in the dog pound.
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  #3079  
Unread 08-15-2019, 02:11 AM
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Derek B Derek B is offline
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Going to jump in again as this has gotten waaaaaaaay off topic from the point of a TEW20 feature and has devolved into a battle of personal opinions no longer relevant to the game. TLCJR4LYFE, this is the second time I'm doing this to a debate you are involved in within a 24 hour period, so please try to keep on point or take these debates to PM.

I'm saying tha publically rather than by PM in the hopes that others will remember that in future too and act accordingly. This is the TEW20 Discussion Thread, one of the key threads for discussion of a future game and as such this particular thread needs to be more on topic for people than the others. I'm usually happy to leave meandering discussions as they are, but this thread is an exception.
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  #3080  
Unread 08-15-2019, 02:45 AM
TLCJR4LIFE TLCJR4LIFE is online now
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I want to see the Undertaker tweeting at people like he’s The Iron Sheik in my next game.
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  #3081  
Unread 08-15-2019, 04:33 AM
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Vinsmoker Vinsmoker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLCJR4LIFE View Post
I want to see the Undertaker tweeting at people like he’s The Iron Sheik in my next game.

Should I like him to Undertaker's instagram or does someone else want to do that?


Keep in mind that this is still time-era locked and tied to personality. It's very unlikely that there is no personality trait, that leads to people not using social media much.
But even then...The Undertaker has been in many interviews, in and out of character. Fans share that stuff via social media, resulting in the same thing

Last edited by Vinsmoker : 08-15-2019 at 04:55 AM.
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  #3082  
Unread 08-15-2019, 04:51 AM
SirMichaelJordan SirMichaelJordan is offline
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It would be cool to see fans use of social media. Some sort of fan reaction & feedback, maybe even interaction with the wrestlers. That would really make things immersive.
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  #3083  
Unread 08-15-2019, 05:24 AM
lavelleuk lavelleuk is offline
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Really liking this social media stuff! In the Cornellverse 2018 mod i released I added a few social media incidents to people's bio's (Joanna silver and Emmy having an online feud for example) so I'm really pleased that stuff will now actually happen in game!
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  #3084  
Unread 08-15-2019, 07:17 AM
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nerodragomir1 nerodragomir1 is offline
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Gonna be interesting to see how that social media stuff works. I'm sure it's like how wrestlers in TEW16 will do an interview in the updates section. I think it's a very cool addition. I also like how it's locked to just modern times. At least with the social media aspect. They could still have wrestlers do interviews in times before the internet & have them put a wrestler over or insult someone.
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  #3085  
Unread 08-15-2019, 09:44 AM
HiPlus HiPlus is offline
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I love the expanded social media content. I was hoping for something like this and the fact it is an extensive list is amazing. For curiosity sake I wouldn't mind knowing how many potential storylines are attached to it. Wow love to see some of those like .1% storylines that are truly special in those regards that give like a huge bonus or negative.
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  #3086  
Unread 08-15-2019, 12:49 PM
piccamo piccamo is offline
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Will social media features be tied to an era in some way? It would be immersion-breaking to have them any time before ~2010. I like the idea because we've seen a sharp increase in the use of social media to build feuds in recent times, but it definitely doesn't fit much in the past.
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  #3087  
Unread 08-15-2019, 12:53 PM
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Jaysin Jaysin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piccamo View Post
Will social media features be tied to an era in some way? It would be immersion-breaking to have them any time before ~2010. I like the idea because we've seen a sharp increase in the use of social media to build feuds in recent times, but it definitely doesn't fit much in the past.
Post said it's time locked to modern era
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  #3088  
Unread 08-15-2019, 12:53 PM
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TeemuFoundation TeemuFoundation is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piccamo View Post
Will social media features be tied to an era in some way? It would be immersion-breaking to have them any time before ~2010. I like the idea because we've seen a sharp increase in the use of social media to build feuds in recent times, but it definitely doesn't fit much in the past.
It was already covered in the previous to this entry that social media will be era based. No worries.
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  #3089  
Unread 08-15-2019, 02:50 PM
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Self Self is offline
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Anyone on my roster trying to start childish squabbles over the internet is getting fired.
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  #3090  
Unread 08-15-2019, 03:02 PM
Goliath764 Goliath764 is offline
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I hope the social media stuff is done better than in WMMA5. WMMA5's just feel way too robotic to be immersive.
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