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  #31  
Unread 02-15-2010, 05:34 PM
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brashleyholland brashleyholland is offline
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Anyway, back on topic.

Numbers out today show that the UFC did an incredible 8 million buys over 13 events in 09. WWE did just 4.6 mil over 14 events. UFC got 6 out of the top 10 PPV of the year and 11 of the top 15. The other top 10 events were Pacquiao/Cotto (2nd), Floyd Mayweather Jr/Juan Marquez (3rd), Paquiao/Hatton (6th) and Wrestlemania (10th). Ouch WWE, ouch.

That's a huge indication of the juggernaut UFC has become in the past five years. Especially when you consider that Lesnar only fought once and St Pierre twice.

Showtime has moved the April Super-Six bouts from the 17th to the 24th of April. Interesting as it means that the 17th (which still has HBO boxing scheduled) is mostly free for Strikeforce on CBS. Some people I've talked to are under the impression that Strikeforce wanted to counterprogramme WEC's first PPV on the 21st - so it could even be that they are going all-in with Showtime on that.

Anderson Silva has said he was told by Dana White that Rashad Evans was going to be his opponant at UFC 112 before Damian Maia stepped in. Interesting as it could have put the Rashad/Rampage fight on the shelf untill later in the year - one would imagine that the UFC will be looking to piggyback on the summer's A-Team launch as much as possible with that one.
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  #32  
Unread 02-15-2010, 05:50 PM
RingofHonorGuard RingofHonorGuard is offline
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Originally Posted by brashleyholland View Post
Anderson Silva has said he was told by Dana White that Rashad Evans was going to be his opponant at UFC 112 before Damian Maia stepped in. Interesting as it could have put the Rashad/Rampage fight on the shelf untill later in the year - one would imagine that the UFC will be looking to piggyback on the summer's A-Team launch as much as possible with that one.
I want to see Rashad beat Rampage. That being said, Rampage will take it pretty easily, which sucks because it would be a real shame to see him get a title shot, beat Machida, and then spend the next few years defending the title as little as possible, and making films. Plus that would have been a really stupid fight for the UFC to put on in the first place... Rashad is working his way back to a title shot, why throw him the middleweight champion who's already stated he won't fight the current champ? Rashad, in his current form, has even less for Silva than he had for Machida.
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  #33  
Unread 02-15-2010, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RingofHonorGuard View Post
I guess Mirko Cro Cop must be a complete hack, huh? You mentioned Josh Barnett never facing Fedor... I know MMAth does not compute, but Cro Cop beat Barnett legitly twice, and once by freak injury... So Cro Cop, who was at the time he faced Fedor the #2 heavyweight in the world by many rankings... is nothing? Interesting concept... Explain that one to me please?
CroCop is nothing because he couldn't beat Fedor, and Fedor only fights terrible opponants!

Also, CroCop 'sucks at UFC' because he lost to Kongo who is a can because Mir beat him. But Mir is a title contender because he beat...erm...Kongo.

And CroCop 'sucks at UFC ' because he lost to Dos Santos, who is a top ten heavyweight after beating...erm...CroCop.

Oh, and CroCop 'sucks at UFC' because he lost to Gonzaga, who went from being prelim filler to main eventer after beating...erm...CroCop.


It makes me cry a little inside that some people actually believe all that
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  #34  
Unread 02-15-2010, 06:13 PM
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He's one of my favs and I love watching his old fights in PRIDE, same with the old Shogun ones during their GP runs, they just anhiliated people, althought Rampage's slam KO of Arona is pretty sweet
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  #35  
Unread 02-15-2010, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RingofHonorGuard View Post
I want to see Rashad beat Rampage. That being said, Rampage will take it pretty easily, which sucks because it would be a real shame to see him get a title shot, beat Machida, and then spend the next few years defending the title as little as possible, and making films. Plus that would have been a really stupid fight for the UFC to put on in the first place... Rashad is working his way back to a title shot, why throw him the middleweight champion who's already stated he won't fight the current champ? Rashad, in his current form, has even less for Silva than he had for Machida.
What I took out of the Rashad/Silva fight is that he's very wary of getting hit after the Machida bout (and seeming with good reason considering how badly he was rocked by Thiago). Rampage is the last guy you want to be fighting if you have concerns about your chin...We do a lot of stuff with the Wolfslair and I held the pads for Rampage when we were up there fairly recently; the guy hits like a heat-seaker...hard, fast and precise.

I agree with your point about him being champ not being the best thing for the UFC. He's still very much at odds with them over the way he was treated - and there is a LOT more to than than has been talked about in the press for various reasons. He has some pretty big plans, while I don't know if I agree with them all from an MMA fan's perspective...well, you gotta do what you gotta do.
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  #36  
Unread 02-15-2010, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jesterx7769 View Post
He's one of my favs and I love watching his old fights in PRIDE, same with the old Shogun ones during their GP runs, they just anhiliated people, althought Rampage's slam KO of Arona is pretty sweet
My favourite Cro Cop MMA fights were the Nogueira fight and his demolitions of Coleman, Waterman and Herring. He got gift after gift in that OWGP, but it was amazing to see him finally win something in Japan, where he was known as 'King With No Crown' for pretty much his entire K-1/MMA career.

Loved his K-1 fight with Sapp, and the classics with Hoost as well. Definatelly worth checking out if you havent already seen them.
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  #37  
Unread 02-15-2010, 07:11 PM
RingofHonorGuard RingofHonorGuard is offline
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Originally Posted by brashleyholland View Post
My favourite Cro Cop MMA fights were the Nogueira fight and his demolitions of Coleman, Waterman and Herring. He got gift after gift in that OWGP, but it was amazing to see him finally win something in Japan, where he was known as 'King With No Crown' for pretty much his entire K-1/MMA career.

Loved his K-1 fight with Sapp, and the classics with Hoost as well. Definatelly worth checking out if you havent already seen them.
Mirko is one of my top five favorite fighters to watch, win or lose. His fights are always fairly exciting, and at times even controversial. I think my favorite memory of him is when he punted Wand's head off to advance in the Openweight. It was the first fight I was able to actually buy on pay per view from PRIDE, and it was a huge fight because their first fight was exciting.

Honorable mention would have to be his first round performance against Fedor, the KO murder train he put on Igor, and of course, breaking the original "Big Baby"(Bob Sapp's) orbital.

Good choice on the Nogueira fight... I was on the edge of my seat when I first seen that fight. I thought Cro Cop had it when he dropped Nog... Then Nog does what he does, and pulled the slick sub. I immediately thought of this fight whenever Herring cracked Nog with the head kick in the UFC.
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  #38  
Unread 02-15-2010, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RingofHonorGuard View Post
the KO murder train he put on Igor
That's bittersweet for me, as Igor is my absolute all time favourite. I spent one too many nights in shady Russian hotels after traveling to watch him fight. Worth every second though. My Mrs and I are actually traveling to the Ukraine later this year to visit his restaurant.

But yeah, that CroCop KO, damn, that was insane. One of my biggest 'what-ifs' in MMA has always been an openweight bout between Igor and Wand in their primes.
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  #39  
Unread 02-15-2010, 08:01 PM
RingofHonorGuard RingofHonorGuard is offline
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Igor in his prime versus Wand in middle of his epic PRIDE Middleweight run would be an awesome fight. I do appreciate Igor and realize how sad it is that he gets very little recognition for his early contributions to the sport. But that head kick has beamed my eyes thousands of times and I can't help but smile a twisted smile every time. It's just obscene how well the cameras captured that.
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  #40  
Unread 02-15-2010, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RingofHonorGuard View Post
I want to see Rashad beat Rampage. That being said, Rampage will take it pretty easily, which sucks because it would be a real shame to see him get a title shot, beat Machida, and then spend the next few years defending the title as little as possible, and making films. Plus that would have been a really stupid fight for the UFC to put on in the first place... Rashad is working his way back to a title shot, why throw him the middleweight champion who's already stated he won't fight the current champ? Rashad, in his current form, has even less for Silva than he had for Machida.
i really don't understand your logic here.. IMO Rashad is a better fighter, Rampage took Jardine to a decision, but Jardine did pretty good. That said, Rashad is better than Jardine. I think Rashad could shut Rampage's big mouth finally
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  #41  
Unread 02-16-2010, 06:18 AM
RingofHonorGuard RingofHonorGuard is offline
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Originally Posted by petecrimson00 View Post
i really don't understand your logic here.. IMO Rashad is a better fighter, Rampage took Jardine to a decision, but Jardine did pretty good. That said, Rashad is better than Jardine. I think Rashad could shut Rampage's big mouth finally
My logic is fine... Rampage is the more experienced and skilled fighter. Rashad is developing really well, and he's finally starting to come into his own, however he still hasn't learned how to deal with getting hit. His immediate reaction is to regress back to his wrestling, and that's going to get him eaten by Rampage. There's no place in this fight that Rashad has an advantage, aside from maybe quickness. Rashad won't take Rampage down, don't believe me? Check out Rampage's fight with Dan Henderson, and you'll learn quite a bit about Jackson's wrestling.

You can't judge how good or bad a fighter is by their wins. Jardine is considered a solid fighter in the light heavies, and he's always a dark horse. He's a lot like Brad Blackburn, he'll beat guys he isn't expected to beat, and then lose to guys he should steamroll. Jardine is game whenever he's facing a top opponent.

By your own logic I could say "Oh yeah? Well Rampage beat Chuck twice, and KO'd him faster in the UFC." The fact is: Just because X beats Y doesn't mean X beats Z. Styles make fights, and Rashad's style is pretty much tailor made to lose to Rampage. Doesn't mean he won't win, but technically Rampage is a superior fighter.

Also by your logic I could point out that if anyone should be criticized for going to decisions it should be Rashad considering he was classified as a "blanket" for laying on top of people early in his career. He went to a decision with Bisping, who got destroyed by Henderson, who Rampage beat by dominant decision... See how your logic doesn't work very well when it's turned around.

I respect and appreciate the fact that you like Rashad. He's one of my favorites too.. But from an unbiased perspective, he should really have no chance at beating Rampage when their resumes are shown side by side... Again...

As Matt Serra, Gabriel Gonzaga, and a heap of underdogs have shown us: anything can happen in a fight.

Last edited by RingofHonorGuard : 02-16-2010 at 06:26 AM.
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  #42  
Unread 02-16-2010, 09:48 AM
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I think Rampage/Rashad would be pretty even. I think Rampage relies on his heavy hands to hurt his opponent, but if they cover up well and move then he can get out-landed and lose a decision.

Rashad moves his head well and throws good combinations. I don't know if Rashad can do as well as Forrest did with that gameplan, that's why I'm giving Rampage the edge.
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  #43  
Unread 02-16-2010, 11:38 AM
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What are the odds that Wanderlei Silva will be let go by the UFC if he loses to Bisping at 110? That would put him at 1-5 in the UFC and 1-7 in his last eight fights.
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  #44  
Unread 02-16-2010, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by brashleyholland View Post
Congratulations for completely missing the point and going off on an absurd rant with so many innacuracies that I honestly don't know where to start.

You compared Overeem's recent history to Fedor's:



Remember that? My point was that you were well off the mark with that comment and nothing else. Nobody mentioned anything about 'credible' opponants, 'bad' fighters or anything else.

The fact that you went on some crazy rant about 'credible' opponants (by the way, anybody ranked in the top five by the IWMMAR is a credible opponant) and 'bad' fighters show just how much of a fanboy you are, and how little you actually know about the fighters we're discussing and the spot itself.

You also make needlessly inflamatory comments (you really think I don't know that Barnett and Fedor didn't fight?) looking to get a reaction out of people. If you're going to take threads off at a tangent and attack people's professions etc then all you're going to achive is annoying Adam and getting the threads closed.
you probably need to let go of that lashley thing. calm down.

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Okay... So because Roy Nelson and Pe De Pano schooled Arlovski on the ground, he's got a terrible ground game? Wow... You have absolutely no clue of the going on's outside of MMA or you would realize that Roy Nelson can pass to side control on pretty much anyone he wants in the world. He's done it to many top calibur athletes, do a search of the web.
Right and my point was you shouldn't put any stock into his ground game when he's never shown much of an aptitude for it.

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Arlovski's jiu jitsu is defensive, much like Wanderlei Silva's. He doesn't want to be on the ground, but he has the tools to survive there with most people... unless they're top grapplers in the world see: Pe De Pano.
or unless they're roy nelson or any of the other guys who are halfway decent on the ground he's fought. You could argue Werdum but his grappling game translates terribly to MMA.

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People put too much stock in "chin strength"... Arlovski's chin might be lagging from a little wear and tear, but his issue isn't a weak chin. The shots he's taken recently that knocked him out would knock out anyone else in the same situation, Mark Hunt included(proven by Melvin Manhoef recently infact). I'm not debating with you that he sometimes lacks discipline and goes free-spirit with his opponents.. But the guy is a warrior, and should never be considered a "bad fighter" by anyones standards.
Manhoef is a bad argument because he hits incredibly hard.

I'll back down on calling Arlovski a bad fighter. He's nowhere near his perceived level and has huge holes but fair enough he's above the pack of fat, useless heavyweights.

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Nope, actually my introduction to MMA was a King of the Cage I rented at my video store featuring Dan Severn when he was past his prime and touting the NWA title.
Mine was a bootleg DVD of Pride 18!

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That aside, I don't really care about Fedor. He's a great fighter, and I respect what he's done for building the sport.. And he's done his job because every fighter he's defeated was apparently a can.. And that's the point, he's dominated every fighter he's faced.
I'm not debating the credibility of his Pride run. I'm debating the credibility of his recent opponents.

Quote:
I guess Mirko Cro Cop must be a complete hack, huh? You mentioned Josh Barnett never facing Fedor... I know MMAth does not compute, but Cro Cop beat Barnett legitly twice, and once by freak injury... So Cro Cop, who was at the time he faced Fedor the #2 heavyweight in the world by many rankings... is nothing? Interesting concept... Explain that one to me please?
He beat him legit once. First one was an injury, second one was legit, third was after he cruised through with an easy KO of Wanderlei while Barnett had a grueling match against Big Nog (this is also the best fight of all time.)

I'm not actually sure where I said he was a complete hack but

Quote:
His absolute obliteration of Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira on two occasions means nothing, the same Nogueira who is highly regarded by almost every fan in MMA? Yeah, okay...
Big Nog was pumped to the max of painkillers in the first fight because of a back injury or something. The second fight was absolutely not an obliteration. But again I'm not debating the credibility of his Pride run.

Quote:
Facing Kevin Randleman, when he was at one of his highest motivational periods, and getting slammed on his head, only to survive and tap him moments later? Yeah... Fedor is a chump.
I'm not sure why people credit Fedor for getting in a position where he got slammed so bad. He managed to land on his shoulders though so there wasn't much damage done.

Quote:
I'm not debating that Fedor has some cans on his record. He's smashed the hell out of a lot of them... But the fact of the matter is this: Anytime a worthwhile challenger steps up, Fedor dominates them. The proof is in the video. People talk about 'almosts' all the time. He -almost- got submitted, he -almost- got knocked out... as opposed to Georges St. Pierre who DID get knocked out, and yet still gets more props than Emelianenko... And I scoff at anyone who says St. Pierre has faced tougher competition over his career, Penn and Hughes aside.
This argument applies to a theoretical Wanderlei who went to Strikeforce and fought nothing but cans as well. I'd like to see Fedor properly tested before I'll call him the #1 HW.

e: Wow we were on a new page sorry didn't want to drag this up. Ignore this post.
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  #45  
Unread 02-16-2010, 04:58 PM
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am i the only one here that thinks faber doesn't deserve a title shot already?
he comes off TWO losses to Mike Brown, and gets one win. i personally dont think thats enough IMO, i think they need to start building up some new Featherweight stars.
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