Grey Dog Software

Go Back   Grey Dog Software > GDS Central > The Dog Pound
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #751  
Unread 01-19-2010, 08:00 PM
jwt13 jwt13 is offline
Phenom
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOmniWarrior View Post
Im pretty sure CM Punk is still a "main eventer" and the whole feud with Truth is to push Truth to main-event status. Which IMO is stupid because Truth is in his 40's isnt he?
so is batista and he was close to fourtys when he got his big push but I think R Truth is like 38. And I dont think CM Punk is or will be a main eventer any time soon because of Takers backstage stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #752  
Unread 01-19-2010, 08:03 PM
PeterHilton's Avatar
PeterHilton PeterHilton is offline
Super Star
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOmniWarrior View Post
Im pretty sure CM Punk is still a "main eventer" ..
He's not.

He's still being featured somewhat and given decent TV time..but he's not being used as a main selling point. His whole "straight edge" deal is a midcard storyline.
Reply With Quote
  #753  
Unread 01-19-2010, 08:28 PM
lazorbeak lazorbeak is offline
Super Star
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,191
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwt13 View Post
so is batista and he was close to fourtys when he got his big push but I think R Truth is like 38. And I dont think CM Punk is or will be a main eventer any time soon because of Takers backstage stuff.
God why do people bring up total nonsense internet rumors as though they were undeniable facts? Punk dropped the title because Undertaker is a more bankable star going into the lead-in for Wrestlemania.
Reply With Quote
  #754  
Unread 01-19-2010, 08:43 PM
jwt13 jwt13 is offline
Phenom
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazorbeak View Post
God why do people bring up total nonsense internet rumors as though they were undeniable facts? Punk dropped the title because Undertaker is a more bankable star going into the lead-in for Wrestlemania.
hasn't main event since, and has even got a rematc for i cant recall but idont think he did.
Reply With Quote
  #755  
Unread 01-19-2010, 08:57 PM
lazorbeak lazorbeak is offline
Super Star
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,191
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwt13 View Post
hasn't main event since, and has even got a rematc for i cant recall but idont think he did.
Oh so total unrelated facts support completely made-up nonsense? This just in, Phoenix, Arizona is protected from hurricanes because a magic unicorn protects it! Need proof? Zero hurricanes in Phoenix!
Reply With Quote
  #756  
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:07 PM
Undertaker666's Avatar
Undertaker666 Undertaker666 is offline
Grey Dog Software
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: England
Posts: 1,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobToxin View Post
But my initial reaction to Vince's swerve on Brett on the January 4th show was ... "figures."
Of course. "Tune in next week to see what happens..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by UkWrestleFan View Post
I have no problem with another 'Taker vs HBK match at 'Mania just as long as HBK doesn't end the streak.

Personally, I don't think it should be ended...ever. If they're going to break it then they should make a new star while doing so, not have an already established name do it.
HBK "retired" Ric Flair, and if the guff last year is to be believed, 'Taker has only beaten HBK once in all the time they're been in the WWF/WWE. No way HBK should be the one to break the streak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyde Hill View Post
Guest hosts need to stop asap even the good ones for two big reasons: Continuity and taking away time and attention/focus from the actually contracted talent. It's not helping in the ratings anymore so plz E stop it. There are more reasons but those are my main gripes.
WWE are using guest hosts for one reason, not for ratings, but because they get mainstream press coverage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterHilton View Post
I just don't see the E putting the young guys over Cena, Trips, or HBK any time soon.
And neither should they. An established star shouldn't put over the younger guys unless the younger guys have proven themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remianen View Post
Show's in a bad place since he's one of the few 'monster' type heels they have who can actually work a match.
Oddly enough, I prefer Big Show as a babyface. I think he pulls off being a "comedy giant" much better than him being a monster heel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remianen View Post
So you completely extinguish Kofi's heat and momentum that you've spent the last 6 months building?
I'm still not sure why they're pushing Kofi. I'm just not seeing what everyone else seems to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remianen View Post
So how do you rebuild Khali to make him credible again if he's jobbing?
Kane has jobbed over and over... yet he's still booked as a monster heel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remianen View Post
And do what with Cody? I don't think Cody has his father's gifts so he and Ted are a package deal.
Simple, release Cody. I can't help but think of Sylvester The Cat every time I hear him on the microphone. "Sufferin' succotash!"

From what i've seen Ted is the better one on the mic, has the better physique and is better in the ring. No reason for him to be lumped with Sylvester.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOmniWarrior View Post
Im pretty sure CM Punk is still a "main eventer" and the whole feud with Truth is to push Truth to main-event status. Which IMO is stupid because Truth is in his 40's isnt he?
Not sure how "R Truth" is even in the WWE, he had a shot way back when as K-Kwik (or whatever he was called) and flopped. Then they bring him back with pretty much the same gimmick - "Rapping on the way to the ring etc."
Reply With Quote
  #757  
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:10 PM
jwt13 jwt13 is offline
Phenom
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazorbeak View Post
Oh so total unrelated facts support completely made-up nonsense? This just in, Phoenix, Arizona is protected from hurricanes because a magic unicorn protects it! Need proof? Zero hurricanes in Phoenix!
I just know the story broke that Punk disrespected Taker he droped the title THAT night which he was originaly to regin according to more than one source and ever since that night hasn't main evented since. Take it or leave it but seems kinda funny that if it want true they would have at least gave him a rematch which I cant recall them doing. And now he's loseing dark matches in PPV's to R Truth.
Reply With Quote
  #758  
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:12 PM
PeterHilton's Avatar
PeterHilton PeterHilton is offline
Super Star
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker666 View Post
And neither should they. An established star shouldn't put over the younger guys unless the younger guys have proven themselves.
You know this is the booking philosophy that closed WCW down, right?
Reply With Quote
  #759  
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:16 PM
Undertaker666's Avatar
Undertaker666 Undertaker666 is offline
Grey Dog Software
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: England
Posts: 1,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterHilton View Post
You know this is the booking philosophy that closed WCW down, right?
To an extent. WCW didn't try to create stars and instead relied on the bigger names. You can rely on your bigger names to draw, but you also need to build up people over time on the lower parts of the card so they can eventually move their way up.

If I debuted on RAW next week, would you expect me to beat Cena/HHH/HBK within a month/few months?
Reply With Quote
  #760  
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:21 PM
PeterHilton's Avatar
PeterHilton PeterHilton is offline
Super Star
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker666 View Post
To an extent. WCW didn't try to create stars and instead relied on the bigger names. You can rely on your bigger names to draw, but you also need to build up people over time on the lower parts of the card so they can eventually move their way up.

If I debuted on RAW next week, would you expect me to beat Cena/HHH/HBK within a month/few months?
No..but I don't think anyone is expecting performers who have been there a 'few months' to beat Cena, HBK, etc.

But this isn't the 80s. The attention span of the audience isn't as great as it once was. You can't wait YEARS to pull the trigger on a guy...if guys like Morrison, Punk, MVP are over..push them into the main event.
Reply With Quote
  #761  
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:42 PM
Hyde Hill's Avatar
Hyde Hill Hyde Hill is offline
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Utrecht
Posts: 3,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker666 View Post

WWE are using guest hosts for one reason, not for ratings, but because they get mainstream press coverage.
And that mainstream press coverage has resulted in what? The WWE seeming a more legitimite company? No. Wrestling/Sports Entertainment becoming cool or at least accepted again? No. Higher ppv buyrates or ratings? (bare number wise not income wise.) No. Less time for all those midcarders to grow into at least upper midcarders? Yes.

If getting mainstream press is the goal that is fine, but if it doesn't bring any results at all it is not serving its purpose.

As an aside you know what got a lot of mainstream press? David Arquette and Katie Vick lolz.
Reply With Quote
  #762  
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:48 PM
Undertaker666's Avatar
Undertaker666 Undertaker666 is offline
Grey Dog Software
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: England
Posts: 1,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterHilton View Post
No..but I don't think anyone is expecting performers who have been there a 'few months' to beat Cena, HBK, etc.

But this isn't the 80s. The attention span of the audience isn't as great as it once was. You can't wait YEARS to pull the trigger on a guy...if guys like Morrison, Punk, MVP are over..push them into the main event.
True. But we need to realise a lot of the stars of today (Kane, HHH, Edge etc.) were created due to a need by WWE (then WWF) to create stars to compete with the names of WCW. If you compare WCW to WWF during the Monday Night Wars based on name value alone then WCW had things in the bag, until of course certain names (Stone Cold, HHH, The Rock etc.) began to rise.

WCW had the majority of guys which WWF made big stars of (Hogan, Savage, Nash, Hall, Rude, Hennig, Hart etc.), but then WWF also took guys from WCW who were being under utilised by WCW but had the potential to be stars (Rey Mysterio, Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero) and booked them long-term to be so.
Reply With Quote
  #763  
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:51 PM
Undertaker666's Avatar
Undertaker666 Undertaker666 is offline
Grey Dog Software
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: England
Posts: 1,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyde Hill View Post
And that mainstream press coverage has resulted in what? The WWE seeming a more legitimite company? No. Wrestling/Sports Entertainment becoming cool or at least accepted again? No. Higher ppv buyrates or ratings? (bare number wise not income wise.) No. Less time for all those midcarders to grow into at least upper midcarders? Yes.

If getting mainstream press is the goal that is fine, but if it doesn't bring any results at all it is not serving its purpose.

As an aside you know what got a lot of mainstream press? David Arquette and Katie Vick lolz.
I agree whole-heartedly. But from Vinne Mac's point of view, mainstream press is a good thing, good or bad (any news is good news etc.). It's why they included Tyson during the Monday Night Wars, Mr T in two Wrestlemania events, Mayweather vs Big Show, countless NFL players etc. over the years. Any chance they can get to potentially get a headline somewhere they normally wouldn't is going to be an opportunity for them.
Reply With Quote
  #764  
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:54 PM
PeterHilton's Avatar
PeterHilton PeterHilton is offline
Super Star
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,234
Default

As I pointed out earlier, the ratings have actually gone up a tick when the bigger names have been rolled out.

And you know what mainstream publicity is good for? Driving home the notion to the general public that the WWE IS pro wrestling.
Reply With Quote
  #765  
Unread 01-19-2010, 10:32 PM
lazorbeak lazorbeak is offline
Super Star
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,191
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker666 View Post
True. But we need to realise a lot of the stars of today (Kane, HHH, Edge etc.) were created due to a need by WWE (then WWF) to create stars to compete with the names of WCW. If you compare WCW to WWF during the Monday Night Wars based on name value alone then WCW had things in the bag, until of course certain names (Stone Cold, HHH, The Rock etc.) began to rise.

WCW had the majority of guys which WWF made big stars of (Hogan, Savage, Nash, Hall, Rude, Hennig, Hart etc.), but then WWF also took guys from WCW who were being under utilised by WCW but had the potential to be stars (Rey Mysterio, Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero) and booked them long-term to be so.
Your first paragraph is the real problem. WWE hasn't HAD to do anything for 9 years. They won, right? And rather than just be content to be #1 (considering that by 2001 WCW was not even close to WWE's level) and make millions, they shrank the entire industry. And now, there's no reason for WWE's top talent to leave unless Vince flat out doesn't want them. TNA can't match an upper midcarder's salary except in unusual circumstances and even with the Spike TV deal you know Angle had to have taken a pay cut. In 1998 Vince had to weigh what a guy was worth to him vs. what it would mean if the guy left. Guys like Sid and LOD and even Jeff Jarrett still had value to the company, but they weren't worth hanging onto and they created spots for fresh guys to come in.

Now, who has left the main event scene in the past 5 years? Benoit and Guerrero are the only two I can think of, and they weren't even top guys for most of their runs. JBL and King Booker, but again those two were never seen as long-term main eventers. Oh, and Angle (who had already been phased out as a top guy). And RVD is up there too, I guess, but again, none were built as being at the very top. Hardy is probably the biggest since he left just as he was breaking into the top spot.

Undertaker, Triple H, HBK, Cena, Orton, and Batista have been main eventers since 2005. The number of pay per views not headlined by one of those guys can be counted on one hand. It's the same phenomenon Hogan went through in the 90's: after he had already been a main eventer for so long there was a fatigue for something, anything else. McMahon recognized it, putting Savage over in WM 4 and Warrior in 6 and eventually letting Hogan go when obviously he probably could've kept getting at least decent buyrates despite his schedule and health issues. I mean, it's not like WCW used him on every show despite signing the big deal with him.

In the long-term, this kind of over-use reduces a main eventer's value because while Undertaker will always have fans, the Undertaker will never get any bigger than he used to be. His drawing ability peaked 11 years ago, and while his name still has value, there isn't the same sort of excitement that Steve Austin had in 1998 or The Rock and Mankind and Triple H had in 1999-2000. John Cena is now an "established" guy but that also means he isn't going to be any bigger than he is.

Of course, this is also why Jeff Hardy leaving stings so much. Jeff Hardy is a guy that hadn't feuded with any of the old guard and would probably be main eventing wrestlemania this year if he could control himself.

But imagine what WWE would do if Undertaker, HBK, Triple H, Cena and Batista left WWE inside of a year. They'd be decimated, right? Except that 4 of those 5 guys are closing in on 40 and Cena could probably crossover into an actor if he wanted to. It would kill the WWE's buyrates for months if not a couple of years, but all that would happen is that a new group would take over, the same way this bunch did after Hogan, Austin, Rock and Lesnar all left in a relatively small window.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.